Project Motoring (PMX)

John R. Caffese. Esq - Founder & CEO for Project Motoring (PMX)

American designed racing quality safety equipment & apparel, by a veteran owned company.

Contact: John R. Caffese. Esq at john@projectmotoring.com | N/A | Visit Online!

        

• Origin Story of Project Motoring – what inspired the brand?
• Race Suits, Shoes, Gloves and more!
• Technical discussion about Nomex Testing, SFI & FIA
• Heat Resistance & Flame Retardant – what does that even mean?
• What is the plan for Project Motoring in 2022 and beyond?

and much, much more!

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motorsports podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motorsports related. Hey, everybody, crew, chief Eric here. Hi. And I know it’s been a while since we’ve had tonight’s guest on our show and a little known fact he was actually on our very first recording, although it didn’t come out until way later in season one.

So with me tonight is John Cfii, who has now resurfaced from being away for quite a while, and he wants to share a long-term project he’s been working on called The Project. Oh. So John, welcome back to Break Fix. We’re gonna dive in a little deeper into what the project is all about, how it started and where it’s going.

Hello. Hello. Excited to be back. Yes. I remember episode one about another topic that was a brain child of ours. Yes. So excited to be back and uh, talk about old things and new things. That’s right. Last time you were on, we were talking about what [00:01:00] should I buy V eight convertibles. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And there was good time.

Unfortunately we weren’t, I would say, prepared as we would be normally in a good way, in the fact that independently, I believe the three or four of us all came up with about the same list of six cars. And we’re like, and we’re like, well, this is the problem cuz we’re all saying the same thing. So our spidey senses were working pretty well.

So like we should have checked with each other to see, hey, I’m gonna say this car. I’m like, okay, so I shouldn’t, so, but you know, I have to thank you for setting off our first, what should I buy? Because it has been a popular and reoccurring set of episodes in our series, and we’ve done several since then.

I’m a trendsetter. I feel like we’ve started a lot of fads both in the GTM community and abroad. I will take all the credit for it single-handedly, despite all your hard work over the last year. Thank you. I appreciate you running the torch. I would like to give you some house points, which I also, uh, created and introduced.

So points to you and, uh, let’s have a good time. Well, as we sit back in [00:02:00] our smoking jackets, yes, leather bound books and chairs in the cigar club here. Sipping on what are we, what are we drinking? We have only of the finest of Italian decor, uh, Deno. That’s right. And, uh, so cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Welcome back.

Mixed with a, uh, a small family recipe of sugary syrup. You may have heard of it. Uh, Coca out of the el outta the Elena area out out of Elena Coca-Cola. No sponsorship or endorsement. Implied, but, uh, so let’s take a trip down memory lane. Let’s talk about memory lane. The project right. Or the project motoring, I guess officially referred to as.

Sure. Sure. So Project Motoring today is a, uh, safety apparel company that we’ve started. We being me and, uh, Dave Gilbert, another, uh, instructor, coach driver with us. If you guys know a little bit about me, great. If you don’t, MSF level two certified instructor. I was a regional owner and now staff member of Hooked and Driving Northeast.

I work with the corporate a lot. We’re pretty national on that. S E C A instructor, you name it, [00:03:00] I, I’ve been to that organizations been doing, uh, HPDs and the behind the scenes business of HPDs for almost a decade. It’s eight years now. It’s time flies. So as a, as a side venture, I uh, kind of expanded that.

So instead of just on track product as far as driving or the cars outta, that came a passion of seeing how the safety equipment industry over the years, especially in the last five years, has exploded in a good way. Like we had an introduction of affordable head and neck restraints and the, and the Hans and the Simpson Hybrid Systems.

And as Nomex comes down in price and more availability and more education and technology has revolved around safety equipment, it’s really worked its way into the H P D E world because unfortunately physics is physics and it doesn’t matter if you’re in a full blown race car on the race day or just doing a run in the middle HPD or even an auto cross event.

You know, fire is fire and it’s gonna happen whether you’re at a race or an hpd. So, no, we hope not. We hope. [00:04:00] Correct. But you wanna be prepared right. The idea that, oh, I’m only doing this, or that really doesn’t make sense in the world of that. So if there’s an issue, there’s gonna be an issue wherever it is.

So hopefully we have no issues. So, and this is a issue of actually really great importance to you because now you’re actually acting as a volunteer firefighter as well, right? So you’re seeing it in a whole different level. Sure. So I’m also, yeah, I’m a volunteer firefighter. Uh, I’m a graduate of the Pennsylvania State Fire Academy.

As well. I’m gonna take a sip of my leor here. Cheers to that. I’m also an officer in the Army, so I’ve been overseas recently back. So safety is something that comes up a lot and it’s something that I’m certainly passionate about. It seemed natural. It was an easy transition into getting some of this stuff into a more affordable and widespread sense.

So that’s where Project Motoring is now. Our basic mantra for Project Motoring, I know it kind of bounced around there, but to really focus on what Project Motoring the company is, is Mazda had a. Ad years ago, it was kind of one [00:05:00] driver, one horse. Mm-hmm. Where they were designing a car about being drivers.

Ours is a little bit similar in the fact that it’s, it’s focused around the driver. So if you’re driving your sports car or whatever, you know, on track, which is we’re focused on track, anything that the driver touches is the safety equipment that we want to have. Right. So, so what does that mean? So your garments, your boots, your gloves, your undergarments, your custom suits, which were coming out with prices that are basically the same price for a fully custom tailored suit.

Designed how you want it, for what the big boys sell off the shelf, as well as helmets had the next restraints, seats, harnesses and steering wheels. So basically if you touch it while you’re sitting down in it, we have a product for you that’s going to be the same quality or better as some of the bigger guys.

Kind of like those nineties commercials, you know, we cut out the middleman factory direct manufacturer direct. So we’re able to pass the savings on, which is great because for the people who only do it a few days a year, they might think that they don’t need it, but it only takes once. That’s something we’ve really been focusing on and we’re pretty excited cuz we have more and more [00:06:00] products coming to market.

We’ve recently been SFI Safety Foundation Institute certified as a manufacturer. Our materials been tested, building out the reports online as a, uh, somewhat marketing, but just really proud that our stuff is, is getting through and absolutely, it’s a good start. So that’s where Project Motoring is today, and that’s kind of where we’re going.

So let’s talk about the past. So we’re, did it all start? Because your passion for cars goes all the way back to when you were a little kid. Yeah. And it stems way beyond that point. Yes. So we’re sitting here in our letter bound books of lounge, cigar lounge. Yes. Lounge, otherwise known as My Kitchen. Please Don’t smoke inside.

Take your shoes off. Wear the slippers. Yeah. So I, I’ve been the car guy all my life. I blame my parents. My dad’s a big car nut. We’re just sitting here looking at some pictures of various ones that I’ve had and me as a kid and always been a car guy. So how did Project Northern come about? Well, it started roughly 12 years ago.

I was in the law school, which sounds like forever [00:07:00] ago, but it’s really not. And uh, I was in a lot of car clubs. I had some tuna cars like everybody else in the, in the late aughts, especially those, uh, SS Cobalts. Yeah. Which I did have a turbo cobalt. It was a street car. I did a lot of auto cross with it.

That’s how I got into like motorsports competition legally. Unfortunately, I did a lot of street racing with it, but I found my way to the straight and arrow. I think it was a great car, really great car, good chassis, good power. The car made a ton of power, made like 350 wheel horsepower, which for a 2,900 pound car, it’s a lot with like a three 90 final drive ratio.

A front wheel drive. Yeah, a front wheel drive car. Yeah. It just, it ripped. For what it was. Now, granted it was a sub 12 second car, street car, which, you know, it was in the Connel box. It was much like the SRT four s or WRX is, but just Chevy’s version of it. Okay. So unfortunately I was involved in some late night unsanctioned runs there, a car club formed around it.

And that was the project. Right. And the project was this group of guys that would enjoy their vehicles [00:08:00] on the, i I envisioned those VW commercials from the late two thousands where it’s like, we’re gonna go behind a Dairy Queen and talk about our car. Yeah. And so not too dissimilar. So it ended up being, we used to meet up twice a monthly plan.

We’d go to, we’d go all go out to, to the bar together, which, you know, dinner and then people would bring their kids and we, we kind of grew up together, so, which was great. So that was a, a real strong family club for about five years. And that was years up here in the northeast? Yeah, that was here in the northeast and then it grew, it was in basically the pa but it went into Jersey in New York and.

Sometimes down in Rockville, in Maryland and in different areas. And we had, we had some people everywhere. It wasn’t such a formal membership. It was more of a loose collection of people with some core members and, and then we would, you know, we’d go camping together, we could travel together, go to movies together and it was great.

But, you know, people grow up and, you know, they sell cars and have kids and start new jobs and move away, so, Kind of faded off. I got more competitive in, um, actual competition for all the cross and whatnot. I really started focusing on that. And this is when you moved to the Corvette? Yeah, [00:09:00] and I started, I started growing wiser with, especially with my future career and thinking, you know, maybe we shouldn’t be doing the Fast and Furious movies on the street here.

So, um, I, uh, ended up buying a C seven Corvette brand new. I was the third one in the country to take delivery of it in September 22nd, 2013. It was a 2014 model, just dumb luck. I was the third one. Corvette was delivering them not by VIN number or order number. My VIN was 0 0 0 6 9 2. I remember that very vividly.

In fact, the stickers on the wall, it was by delivery date. So whoever could fill a truck, I live in an area that you have to pass through to get to New York City. All right, makes sense. So my truck, my car was the last one on, and it was the first one off. Because it was going to North Jersey and New York City where people with a lot more money than us.

Yeah. Live and could pay for the Corvettes up front. So I was lucky in that. So I ended up joining the National Council of Corvette Clubs, so C. C, which was the sponsoring group of the areas that we were doing all across with already. And then I started running [00:10:00] for the regional championship, actually ended up winning a couple years, came in second, some other years.

There’s actually a good guy that I used to run with who still runs with, with and hooked on driving. So it’s always funny seeing former G Cam member as well. Yes. Yeah. So Steve, if you’re out there, he will, I won’t put you on blast, but you just did. Yeah. I won’t say last names. I don’t know if he’s gonna hear it or not, but he is a great guy.

We have a lot of fun. So that’s really how I got into hooked on driving was I met Mike through the Auto Cross. If you guys know Mike from Hooked On Driving and uh, he’s become family just like you guys. He’s kind never went away. So we’ve been doing that for eight years now with Hooked on driving, instructing him.

But you’ve been carrying the brand ever since. I see it on the cars. You see the black and boys old not to be confused with, you know, Pittsburgh and anyway. No, always, always. That’s family. So everyone that corporate is, is great too. It’s a great cause. So if you’re not familiar with Hooked on Driving or, or what H P D E is, it’s non-competitive track events, right?

So people who wanna go on track but aren’t interested in racing per se, or just wanna do a couple events a year, it’s great. So if you have your complete Stock Street car, it could be a. Or rent a car even, you know, for people who are [00:11:00] newer, the cars are always more capable than that. So I don’t care if you’re in a stock Corolla, that car’s gonna be able to do more than you can your first few times.

Well, I meant more so than that. You’ve actually been carrying the project band ever since. Yes. You see it on your cars, you see where the hole’s, what I meant by the black and gold, right? Yeah. So we’ve had, yeah, so our colors were also black and gold. Much I cooked on driving. It’s totally unintentional coincidence there.

We had t-shirts, we had hoodies, we would, you know, do fundraisers and stuff like that. I’ve had the project as a brand for some time. Right. So, so where did, where did that name come from? How did that just, you know, it’s, it reminds me of like Jersey, sort of like the situation. Yeah. So funny. There was a, a, a club we were all a part of before that, I won’t say its name.

I will, you can whisper it too. It had, it had no sh Now we were younger, so I mean, in our twenties. So, There was no shortage of drama, something out of a movie. Some of the more mature people broke away from that. And we’re like, we got, we wanna work on something else, we want to do something [00:12:00] else. And we’re like, well, what do we call it?

What do we call this project? Right. And then we couldn’t think of a name for it. And then I was just like, why don’t we just call it the project cuz it’s, you know, we keep saying we wanna work on this project and get away from that. Yeah. So that’s really where it came from. Something that simple. The very first project meet was uh, six cars.

I remember the guys vividly, right where it was in, in behind a, a bar and restaurant. Real popular with a bar here in town in, in the Poconos. We went inside, we had some drinks, we had some place serve hotdog. We talked about what we wanna do. Wasn’t a gs? No, no, no. It was at Rudy’s tavr, east Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania.

Little hole in the wall place. And we had supers, which is uh, bacon wrapped, hot dogs. Oh, that sounds pretty good. They’re actually pretty famous in the area. We should go as simple and stupid as that. It was like we just needed a name for this project and we said, let’s just call it the pro the project. So it was the project for eight or nine years as I started to take the brand.

Cuz you know, I won’t wanna say it was my work, but you know, I, I was [00:13:00] definitely the driving force behind it. No pun intended. Formalized it a little more, you know, cause we had done some charity events. Mm-hmm. We did some kind of like make-a-wish things for some kids who were sick, who wanted rides and Ferrari or exotic cars or high horsepower cars, you know, cause they were sick, whatever.

So we actually started doing that. We did about three or four of ’em, actually have one on video that was on YouTube. It was awesome. Amazingly, with good luck and Goodwill, one of them just graduated high school, which we didn’t think that he’d make it that far. And this was almost 10 years ago. So it’s been really cool.

He just bought a Mustang as a five. Oh. And it’s like we’re really happy for him cause he, that’s awesome. You know, I’d like to think we have something to do with him being even more of a card net. So we’re like, okay. So we’re starting to organize things here more than just like randomly meeting up and being a drinking club.

Which it was never really that I needed to formalize a little more. So the, the project became just project motoring because it was no longer just about car club as much as it was car culture or doing things around car culture or. Stuff like that. So it [00:14:00] wasn’t just racing, it wasn’t just being at the track or just car shows out or whatever.

Yeah, car shows it be everything. So what’s everything Motoring. So you know, if you’re motoring, motoring can be rallies, motoring can be poker runs, motoring can be helping kids out. Motoring could be wrenching or talking about cars or watching races or stuff like that. So, so Project Motoring became Project Motoring probably four or five years ago, and then I think we incorporated in 2019.

Gotcha. Since about 2020 we’ve been putting plans in place to do something this, so it’s going from going from the original car meets to water cross stuff, to, you know, this more formalized and now you’re becoming, you’ve gone from a brand to a lifestyle, let’s call it that. Right? Sure. Yeah. So you kind of couture.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Couture, you’ve now kind of changed the name again. It’s evolved another time. Now you, it’s Pmx, right? Right. So what’s, what’s that all about? Pmx is not Project, not, not P 90. That right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did Pmx come out? So what is pmx? So, so Project Motoring is a brand project.

Motoring [00:15:00] is manufacturer. Project Motoring is a retail reseller project Motoring is a consulting business. If you need coaches or track site support, we can do all that with our expertise between some of our advanced driver coaches that we have on staff, or whether it be you need help running an event because we have experience doing that.

That’s stuff we can do. But, so what is pmx exactly? Pmx is our brand or is our product brand? What’s the X stand for? Funny enough. Well, as you can gather, uh, pm and stands for Project Motoring. So like, we need extreme. Yeah. So I, I thought about that. We need, you just need an extra letter. It it’s a simpler, it’s simpler than that.

Listen, you know, Walmart, ShopRite Giant, they have their own brand. Yeah. But they also sell Newman’s own. They’ll sell Jiffy, but then they’ll sell their brand. Right? Right. So we have our brand. Of stuff that we get manufactured to our specs, which again has just been past certifications. We also resell some of the major name brands.

Obviously we push ours because the quality’s the same or better for, uh, a better price. So I’ll be honest with you, it’s a, [00:16:00] it’s a better margin for us, but everybody wins cuz the client gets it cheaper and we’re actually able, hopefully able to make a living off. That’s what pmx is. So pmx is an apparel brand much like OMP or Hrx is, and it’s sold by Project Motoring, much like RU or Speed Comments, right?

Mm-hmm. So what does PMX stand for? So, yes, p and m is project and motoring and no, it’s not extreme as much as one we think. So we’re thinking what’s a good brand name, right? Or really an acronym. So we were thinking PM two letters doesn’t really resonate. So then there was like, well, project Motorsports.

PMs and we’re like, that’s probably not gonna work either. It’s not gonna float. Right. You know, that’s, you know, I don’t wanna touch on that. You know, I was like, ah, that’s, there could be some confusion there. It’s the best. Yeah. Period. Yeah. That’s your tagline, right? That’d be terrible. Um, but, uh, and I’ll tell you why that’d be terrible for the exact reasons that you’re taking off, and I’ll get to that.

So we needed a third letter. X just makes it sound cool. So X is just a, a third letter. So it’s like, in like [00:17:00] in mathematics, the X is whatever you want it to be, X is whatever you want it to be, find X. Right. So I am familiar with some se several other brands that use, uh, three letter acronyms. And I’m aware of some of them.

Those letters don’t mean anything. They are also interjected. So if you look up what your corporations and their names are, I don’t wanna plug anybody else, but Right. I, I can tell you offline, you’d be surprised at what actually some of the names of the companies are that have these three letter acronyms that you know of, or like the longer ones.

And you’re like, wait, that’s what it means. You’re like, yeah. Uh, but the acronym sounds cool, right? So it works, right? So it gets your attention, right, right. So Pmx is, is Project Motor Inc’s own brand. Maybe one day we will get some retailers or resellers to do it. I know there was a company outta Maryland, they’re called Grand Tour Motorsport.

They’re, they’re interested in selling our products and we’re interested in working with them and setting something up. So the idea is that Project Motoring will sell Pmx stuff and then if other people also want access to Pmx stuff, [00:18:00] we’ll be more than happy to help. That gets it out there. Now, why, where did this come from?

One, I have the passion because I fight fires almost daily as a volunteer firefighter and being, having all the credentials as the same as a paid firefighter. Obviously my time in the Army and I’m still still in the army serving, which is fantastic. Thank you for that lot. Lot of issue. Uh, I get paid lot of, lot of, lot of focus on safety, especially, uh, being overseas.

So just kind of seemed natural that here I am, I’m constantly teaching people how to be, I don’t wanna say faster, but also safer on track. Well, a lot of it’s the equipment that we bring, right? That’s true. So that’s true. Everyone wants to set up their cars. How do I be better? Oh, let me go buy a crazy suspension.

And it’s only your second day. It’s like you don’t need that crazy suspension. You know what I mean? But here’s what you can do. You can get some basic safety equipment, which will actually help you be faster, right? So do you wanna put a seat in the car If you’re willing to do that? And the harnesses, you can do that.

And to your point, we talked about this on a episode in season one, where safety as a system, right? And so you’re definitely have to cater to that as well. And so just to [00:19:00] not belabor that point, sure. If anybody wants to go back and research it, yeah, absolutely. They can look up that previous episode. No.

Yeah, definitely. Thi things are intertwined. They don’t act individually. A Hans device is no good if you don’t have the correct belt for it. But here’s what works in all scenarios, gloves, boots, suit, or even just the undergarments we have unintentionally, as I just showed you, created a product line. It’s a Nomex shirt and pants.

It’s heavier than a normal shirt. So it might not be something that you would wanna wear necessarily underneath a race suit. But you don’t wanna wear, wear a race suit or you’re in or out. I don’t necessarily suggest that. I feel like if you’re gonna do something to do it all the way, I understand it’s hot, but if you wanted to wear a long sleeve shirt, you don’t wanna be fully committed to a suit, but you don’t wanna have no protection.

We do have these in between products that can work a in conjecture with a full racing suit or just on its own. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, having put ’em in my hands and seen them, the quality’s really good and I’m with you. I think they’re a little bit heavy to be underneath my suit that I would wear.

Right. But as [00:20:00] a H P D E coach on a fall day or spring where I wanna wear a long sleeve shirt but not have to put the suit on and get in and out of it and all that, I think it’s actually a really great compromise between I. Many of us had to do is like, or I’m gonna wear something, I’m gonna put a hoodie on, or I’m gonna wear something, put my suit on.

I’m, I’m getting in and outta clothing all the time. And it’s like, it’s actually kind of nice to have that balance where it’s like, I can throw this on. I’m not gonna wear it when it’s a hundred degrees. Right. But it would be really, really nice when it’s, you know, Watkins Glen in October and it’s 30 degrees in the morning.

Sure. That would be really good. Underneath the suit. And, and this is my warning with that is, you know, my answer is always gonna be wear the suit all the time. Oh, absolutely. Right. And that’s, that’s the right answer. But I’m also realistic and not everyone’s gonna wear the suit all the time or want a suit.

And sometimes people feel awkward wearing their suit around the paddock. Cause you look. Kind of just pretentious, right? Is the word I wanna use. And that’s a culture thing that we’re trying to change, right? Because people wanna say, not to digress, but to your point, people will go, well, it’s just a de I don’t need a suit.

Right? And I know we touched on that earlier. Well, I can wear jeans and a hoodie and it’ll be fine. That [00:21:00] physics, that it, it, you know, that wall, that fire, that exploding gas line or that that horrible incident, God forbid, doesn’t care if you’re at an F1 race. Yeah. Or if you’re driving your H P D E car and straight cotton’s only good for what, three seconds or something like that?

Not even. Yeah. So, Which doesn’t seem like a lot of time. No. But in that instance is actually a lot of time. Absolutely. Recommendation would always be wear a suit. However, I’m realistic and I want you to wear something rather than nothing. So if you’re gotta wear a long sleeved t-shirt, you might as well wear a long sleeve Nomex t-shirt.

Yeah. That’s a little bit heavier, but will actually give you some form of protection. Right. That product that I showed you that’s coming out is, uh, it’s actually at testing right now, so we’re getting the exact thermal properties of it. So we can give you an idea of the exact timeline. So for instance, our suit, our first suit, we call it the D R T W O C.

Right. What does that mean? There’s been the ongoing joke inside of our, of our company, between our designers and people of North thought process and that’s don’t reinvent the wheel. That’s awesome. And don’t [00:22:00] reinvent the wheels. D rt, W. You. So when you start seeing some of the product line with D R T W on it, those are our, I don’t wanna say some of our frontline or first line stuff, but it’s certainly the idea is that it’s like, listen, we don’t need to be super creative or exotic with what we’re doing.

We just need to provide a product that’s exists, that’s gonna work, and that’s gonna be good quality and more affordable. So we can put it in the hands of everybody, right? Yeah. Don’t reinvent the wheel. And OC actually, it stands for coveralls or over covers, which if you look at FIA testing, the suits are categorized as ocs.

Eventually we will have our own product that’s FIA certified. We actually already have product that’s FIA certified. We’re gonna to also be starting to make that in-house and get stuff re-certified. So even though some of the stuff we make is in-house. Some of it’s not still made to our specs. So we like to say, you know, American design, most of it’s made to overseas, which is fine cuz Nomex is only made and actually, uh, sew ’em together in about four places in the world.

So just about all the big name [00:23:00] brands and, and even the smaller guys, we’re all getting the stuff from the same, from the same people. So don’t be fooled. F i is really easy to find that out as uh, each one of the products has a serial number that you see on it. We’ll just go on the technical sheet and they’ll tell you who made it.

So it could be brand abc but it’s made by xyz. Yeah. And those three or four brands are using the same stuff. Well, let’s talk a little bit about design decisions. I got to see the head Sox there, balaclavas that you have as prototypes. And I think we both agreed they’re a little bit on the thick side, especially for hot weather.

But one of the things you showed me was kind of a previous prototype and then the new prototype. And the big difference was, so the stitching small details, can’t take credit for it. I know some other companies are doing it. But to their point, it’s like if we have something that is working better than what’s out there, let’s use it.

Now, I’m not saying we’re stealing designs, that’s not what I’m saying, but we’re taking inspiration to seeing what the trends are because we are small and we can be flexible in what we’re doing so [00:24:00] well, why is the stitching different? Well, it’s not different in how it’s construction. You saw that. But the example you’re making is these hoods normally traditionally have a center stitch down the, what would be the middle of your forehead.

Mm-hmm. But you wouldn’t think anything of it. Right. But when you’re wearing a helmet for 30, 40 minutes or an hour at a time, that’s weight that’s sitting on that stitch that’s now driving into the move of your forehead. It can be uncomfortable, especially as it goes from, you know, essentially, uh, your center of your brow all the way back and over to the crown to the base of your neck.

Right. So now you got a huge pressure point and it’s uncomfortable. So ours don’t have the center, uh, forehead line, and it also has the circular sits around the top. So when you put that on, which we gotta have you put it on, not only the, is it not gonna get scrunched by the helmet, But it actually acts as kind of a fitted cap that sits on the crown and, and keeps them place.

Cuz another thing that we learn when we’re wearing these bell lavas or, or no Mexico hoods under our, under our helmets, and especially when you start getting sweater or anything, they start shifting and then mm-hmm little sticky and some areas will, will shift and others won’t. This [00:25:00] kind of acts as like a cup that stays solid on your head.

So we’re really excited about that. It uses generally the same material as the undergarments we were just talking about, which is gonna get tweaked and we’re, and we’re dropping the weight on that. The reason why we’re going a little heavier to start is because a little bit heavier stuff is gonna have a higher thermal protective properties.

So the tpp, which gives you the timeline of how many seconds until second degree, right? Don’t reinvent the wheel. Start simple. Get a product that’s gonna work. Then let’s get more exotic into the lighter stuff that’s gonna be more expensive. But it will be lighter. It’s easier to wear. Now why do I feel that way?

Because for the de person who’s doing 25 to 40 minute sessions at a time, you can take the stuff off in between. You’re gonna have an hour and a half usually between sessions. You know, you’re not running hours at a time. So this may not be for the endurance guy right now, but we have that product coming shortly.

But this is the, it’s a little bit cheaper to make, as counterintuitive as it sounds, using more material. We’re not reinventing the wheel. We’re using stuff that’s been proven and out there for 50 or 60 years in, uh, new designs and ways that are, uh, efficient. [00:26:00] It’s making things easier to put in the hands of everybody and in the way that it’s safer than looking at.

Well, I think there’s also the other side of that coin, which is there’s some old designs that have gone away, and I hear it all the time, people. Amen. Do you remember when they used to make block? And then they don’t anymore because of maybe manufacturing or costs or whatever. And people want some of those older styles back because they were either more comfortable or more stylish, or they might not not be up to today’s standards.

But that’s just like when we talk about the retro cars coming back, it’s you take that old design and you modernize it. So that meets all the current specs, but then it appeals to the market that’s interested in purchasing them. Mm-hmm. So we’re finding that with gloves and especially boots. Right. So I mean, just fashion in general is secular.

We have the issue people like the older style, simpler shoes. Yeah. Right. I mean, Chuck Taylor’s in the like, or always coming back every 10, 15 years as fashionable. And then we were just talking about the Pilates, but that’s going back around with the, even the Nomex shoes. Cause for a while we went with, in the last few years, like all the rage has been all the high-end leather shoes.

Yeah. O [00:27:00] MP’s got a ratcheting shoelace, which reminds me of some of the basketball shoes from the early nineties. Right. I mean, yeah. That is trick, but they’re $400. I can tie my shoe lace guys. I can tuck in it. Ain’t that the truth? And does it give me any more protection than what our roughly $100 for?

Well, you have to look at what that ratcheting mechanism is made of. Do you just introduce some plastic? Yes. It doesn’t have the T PPP as as the lace does. Absolutely. And, and not to knock on Cool shirt. I don’t know their testings and everything and I know they just came out with an SFI version. But the idea of having essentially an Under Armour tight polyester skin, tight garbage bag with water tubes on you is like probably really bad idea cuz that’s gonna melt on your skin.

I’ve never really bought off on that idea and I know I’m guilty of wearing Under Armour under my suit before and things like that just because it’s sometimes some days you’re like, it’s so freaking hot. Sure. You know, that kind of deal. But you know, we were talking about it with one of our guys even [00:28:00] earlier today where it was like, you know, I don’t underst certain people that you know, can get in the car and it’s 140 degrees and they’re not wearing a cool suit.

Well, it’s like, it’s acceptable risk at that point. If you’re comfortable wearing that apparatus that has all that, you know, plastic in it and elastene and you know, polyester and et cetera, then that’s fine. But if you’re not, you’re like, well, I’m gonna wear nomad. Sure, sure. And, and, and let me expand on, on your point to maybe some people who don’t understand it, right?

So the polyester at a certain temperature, which is not one that’s gonna actually hurt you like a flame, but if you’re just hot, that material will start breaking down and melting and it’ll last. You start sticking to your skin, it’ll bond. Yeah. So what happens? You need essentially skin graft, right?

Because it’s gonna start getting stick and ripping and tearing at the skin with no flame presence. It’s just mere heat. It’s gonna start melting. So let me give you a quick story. I’m not a fire, I wear on the armor t-shirts and the polyester type T-shirts I wearing wearing right now. Oftentimes I’m wearing one and I got a fire call off.

I go. Now I’m in a raging fire inside of a house. I have this underneath my turnout gear. My turnout gear [00:29:00] is much like a Nomex suit, only a little thicker, heavier, better for that purpose. What’s the idea here? When you’re in an issue in the car and there’s a fire, rarely are flames licking at your skin, right?

Right. You are now a hot pocket. You’re being bayed from the inside. So the majority of the burns that we’re talking about are steam burns, right? So it’s all the moisture in the suit on your body and everything. So you’re cooking from the inside and you’re getting steam burns, which are probably worse than like flame burns.

So when you hear so many protection from second degree burns, it’s because of the different barriers and layers, like the vapor barriers. And we can go, I can go into a whole lot of the science of it, but just know that that’s really the difference. If you wanna say the material of the cool shirt, cause I am not.

Proficient on their product. Right? Right. So I don’t wanna sit here and knock it. I know they have an SFI product as well, and I know it works well, but we’re still talking about a plastic material directly, or a knee apr or a vinyl or whatever, any of that, that, and it’s gonna be an issue. So my point was, I’m gonna raging fire, I’m putting on a fire, I come back to the station, the shorts ruined, and it start to stick to me.

Luckily it wasn’t so bad [00:30:00] that I couldn’t just pick it off and I was like, oh, that’s inconvenient. Kind of like ripping a bandaid off. But it was scary. Mm-hmm. Cause if I was under more, I was fine. It’s not like I was exposed to anything. I was just really hot. So the suit’s gonna be the same thing. The race suit’s gonna be the same thing, especially with everything underneath.

Now again, take the material aspect of the cool shirt away. Maybe the, the plastic tubes and all that. You’re putting water, lots of it underneath your suit, so eventually it’s going to boil on steam. And if any of those pipes crack, you’re introducing fuel for a steam burn. Yeah, I don’t wanna do that.

There’s other ways to cool yourself. Again, if you’re only in the car 30, 40 minutes at a time and you’re having those kind of heat issues, there’s more to it to that. Maybe we talk about some physical fitness, maybe we talk about some ducting systems. There’s other ways around it that I think are safer, less complicated, and certainly less expensive.

Now that’s not to knock on a product. I know a lot of people like it. I’m not overly familiar with it, but just from a safety standpoint with my experience, I look at it and go, we’re introducing problems. You wanna be cool? I get it. I still think you should wear a suit the whole time, but if not, we’ll round back, we’ll circle [00:31:00] back the whole conversation.

I think we have an in between product with the younger and, and just like we were talking about before, I mean, I have. I’ve been looking personally at Nomex Pants and they’re harder and harder to find anymore. Everybody wants to sell you a full suit and I’m like, you know, it would be nice just to have the pants sometimes where then I can change my shirts throughout the day.

Absolutely. But my pants are consistent. Right? Absolutely. I know that there’s some brands out there, they’re not necessarily super cheap, but on the same token you’re like, I’m gonna pay what for? What you interested to see, you know, maybe products like that coming on board for Pmx as well. So Pmx has obviously the undergarments.

Mm-hmm. Which is some of the shorts we just talked about that you can wear on its own as, as its own layer or an under layer. We have the same exact material and the pant material, they’re almost like sweatpants. I tell you what, they’re comfortable. I would wear ’em around the house. Yeah, they do look very comfortable.

As a matter of fact. Yeah. You wear ’em around the house, like lounge on the couch. Well if the house burns down, I’ll be okay. So yeah, we can do jackets and shirts independently. We like to focus on the suit cause that’s what we The complete set the system. Yeah, absolutely. But if a customer [00:32:00] came to us and said, Hey, I want this, even if it’s not something that we regularly do.

We can do it because we’re flexible and everything. So the big focus of pmx to brand is custom. Our distinction is that you can buy something off the rack and it may or may not be what you want. It might be close, but you can get something for within the same price, probably 10% either way, custom tailored with your design, with your logos, with whatever you want.

That’s the same price point and it’s the same safety or more, and same quality or more. It could be the same weight or less, which is great. Or Hey, I can’t find these pants. I want a Nomex set of pants. And I don’t mean yellow garments. I mean just like a drag race would’ve. A jacket. Exactly. Pants. Exactly.

You can do that. Maybe I don’t want the drag racer version. Why wouldn’t I want the drag racer version? Well, the SFI for road racing is 3.2 a slash five. That gives you a thermal protective property of 19. Drag racing is like 10 or 15. It’s a lot [00:33:00] heavier. A lot heavier material. So if you’re talking about, Hey, I want these pants cause I want ’em to be lighter and more breathable, you don’t wanna go buy the drag racing once cause you’re gonna be about almost three, two to three times to wait.

Like they’re gonna be really heavy but you wear them for, if you actually need that kind of pants, 10 seconds less. Right? You’re in the car, you’re staging, you’re go make your pass 10 seconds, whatnot. You’re out of it. You’re maybe in them for 10 minutes at a time. It’s fine. You don’t need that kind of breathability or maneuverability either.

Cause they’re gonna be stiffer. Cause they’re just big and bulky. I mean we all remember wearing our huge down jackets in the eighties. We can’t put on down. Yeah, exactly. Now the Christmas story, right? It pretty similar to that now the nicer stuff. Certainly not, but it’s nicer stuff and it costs more money and that may not be where a lot of the people are who want to get into the hobby.

And it’s better to have some safety equipment that’s quality than some of the higher end stuff. Yeah. And I mean my compromise right now personally is actually I moved to cargo Dickies because they are, they’re not as heavy as a gene, right? They’re not [00:34:00] nearly like the drag pants. But the one big thing that sold me on them is they’re breathable, they are cotton like material, you know, that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. So they’re good enough for de but it’s cargo pockets because if I’m around the paddock and I wanna carry my, absolutely my tire, you know, my tire gauge or a wrench, you know, that 10 millimeter that I’m always losing, having pockets is awesome. Right. So I got, I got two points for you. One, I’m gonna agree with you and the second one I’m gonna blow your mind.

Right. So one before I got wiser than I am now, I would wear also Dickies just work pants for like, I would wear the jeans because they’re 12. So they’re heavier, they’re cotton, right? Uh, it’s not gonna be like a gym pan or a shorts that’s going to be polyester and burn on me, or five 11 tactical pants.

Mm-hmm. Because they’re similar type like khaki materials, right? Yeah, yeah, kind of. Or even just a solid ones, like a little bit heavier. Still very flexible. Not too heavy, but breathable. But I know it can take a little bit of a beating, but at the end of the day, it’s not what it is. The second point is the fact that you can get custom whatever you want.

I can get you cargo pants [00:35:00] in Nomex, Eric. Ah, I like it. We’ll, we’ll make you. Some cargo pants suits. So something that we’ve been doing, we’ve been talking about some of the race teams, is they want crew suits, but also be able to drive with them. So what does that mean? So it’s gonna be not as light as just a crew suit where it’s just a coverall from contamination, but also fireproof.

But these guys are holding the radios all the time. So we’ve be, we’re like, well, we don’t, we make like a belt loop across your back and no mixed material that you can hook your radios to. Yeah. Like you would in your pockets and you’re like, oh my God, that’d be awesome. I don’t have to carry it around. Or, you know, I have that on my crew suit, but I don’t have ’em are a race seat.

Well, why not? I mean, we’re talking about maybe two ounces of material. Is that really make or break or it’s too heavy or too light when you’re sitting down? No. So let’s do it. You want cargo pockets on your Nomex suit. Sure. Well, you know, the big ask, let’s do it. The big ask is, can you make one leg black and the other one white?

And if anybody’s seen my car, you know exactly what I’m talking about. We can do that. We can do whatever you want. We can put logos on it. Yeah. So if you, if you want to do four different limbs of colors, I got you the [00:36:00] whole rainbow on it. Unicorn squad unite. And you have a different process for doing that as well, right?

Mm-hmm. So not only do we have the traditional style of, uh, different coloring where each color is essentially its own material, the typical white, blue, black, red, and all that. Yeah. And you think about how it’s done like, so each color is really its own material that’s stitched into another color, so it’s hard to do.

So some of our manufacturers, super high tech, we’re the only ones in the US who do it. If you’re familiar with sublimation, it’s essentially like 3D printing. For t-shirts and a lot of the carting suits. The issue with that is you kind of need like a certain type of material for it to take correctly and not run or be smooth or anything like that.

Nomex is not that kind of material. We use a manufacturer, but they’re awesome. They make their own material, has the same chemical properties essentially as Nomex. As far as being fire retarded. It’s lighter, it’s actually stretchy, which is great. So one of their products can stretch up to 20%. So as you see the 360 degree elastic arm cuffs that we have for the shoulders and and stretch panels in the [00:37:00] back.

Why that’s great. It’s a little bit lower. Thermal protective property. They figured out something in the middle. So it’s, it’s had that, that stretchy but also protected. But the material, because it’s a little bit more exotic and not nomax, you can actually supplement on it. You can 3D print, which means that the suit itself is FIA certified.

Right? But it’s a blank suit, which means, cuz you can supplement it and it’s a white blank suit. You can put any design you want in any which way, any color. As long as you can get a graphic design and then make it, we can put it on the panels, make ’em line up and print it. Why is that huge for FIA one?

That’s huge. That’s awesome because it’s groundbreaking cuz you don’t have to worry about cutting together each piece and patching it together and making the colors you want. But for FIA testing, it’s a little bit different than SFI testing. And we’re actually gonna have a podcast about this as well.

The differences in the similarity of these between the two fia, your design matters, right? So your construction matters, right? So if I make a suit. And I patch it together horizontally and I get that tested, which is expensive and time consuming, [00:38:00] especially cuz fia. SFI takes about a month and it’s about a 10th of the cost.

Theoretically, SFI is more difficult for thermal protective property testing. It’s actually a higher standard than the fia. A little bit than that. Later I have a assumed I’m constructing it horizontally. Like my patches are horizontal, so I got strips and they’re going up and down and making horizontal strips.

That’s one suit I can get that passed. Okay, great. No problem. I take the same exact material, same exact material, turn it the other way and I stitch it vertically. I now have to get it retested and then it’s own design. It’s the same exact material, it’s just, but your stitch counts are different in different direction.

It it be the same stitch counts. It’s just put together differently. Yeah. According to the fia, that’s a different suit and you have to get it recertified. So what does that mean? That means that you can’t get those different designs because the manufacturers aren’t necessarily gonna go out and test all that.

Gotcha. So that’s why a lot of the FY suits, there’s only really four or five designs out there. Or a company only has one or two. Some of the bigger ones maybe have three, four. Yeah. It’s like almost like crash testing some of the exotic cars. They’re not gonna do all of ’em. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Whereas [00:39:00] SFI doesn’t matter.

The construction, per se, as the material. So if I have the same suit using the same exact material and same exact construction processes and layers, I stitch one horizontally, I stitch another one vertically. You’re fine. So that’s why the SFI suits, which actually have a higher thermal protective property testing are able to have a little more freedom.

Yeah. So that’s why I wanna have accustomed suits for SFI and not fia, but this material, the sublimation is a game changer because you get essentially a blank suit, whatever you want to do. Yeah. It’s already FIA certified because we’re not changing the construction of the suit. And you were saying that right now, you’re starting to see that in the carting world more than anywhere else.

Mm-hmm. Where you’re starting to see some of that process come through. And for the geeks and chemists and everybody that’s out there, they’ll correct me if I’m wrong, but if I remember high school chemistry correctly, D sublimation is the process of going from a solid. To a gas without first becoming a liquid.

Yep. So it’s a very interesting process how they do that. They’re basically smoking it on. Correct. Right. That’s why the material [00:40:00] matters. Right. Has to be able to accept that type of thing. So that’s why you see some of the polyester t-shirts that have it, like crew shirts or like a to wing shirt, you know, the high tech stuff like that.

Some cottons can do it. Yeah. That’s why it’s more popular in carding cuz those carding suits aren’t nomax. Right. Those crew shirts are not nomax. Nomax is not a material that likes to do that. Yeah. This stuff isn’t nomax and it tests as good for thermal protection. That’s interesting. Protection. So it’s, it’s all good because the process otherwise has always been, uh, what is it, direct transfer.

There’s embroidery, obviously, and then there’s like a, there’s a screen print and I think there’s like a thermal transfer or something like that. Like the, the process of making it’s, it’s printed materials been the same for freaking forever. Yes. Yeah. It’s basically next generation thermal printing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I’m not a chemist. I’ve seen it work. I look forward to go in there. I believe before 2022, I’ll be in the factory doing the tour. So I guess my question is, what does the fabric [00:41:00] feel like? Is it gonna feel like those parkas you were talking about from the eighties? No. Is it smooth like that? No. Or does it actually feel like a cotton or whatever?

So it’s got some texture to it. Okay. I mean, it’s still, it’s, it can be a coarser fabric. So even the shiny nomax that you felt still has some, you know, it’s not slick. Right. It doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like a polyester. Right. But, uh, we’ll have one soon. You’ll see it. Nice. Yeah. It, it still feels like a traditional material.

So I wanna switch back actually to the undergarments and the shoes for a second. So are you doing socks as well? Cause that’s always something, that’s always a piece that people forget about. Sure. So we’re working on socks. Unfortunately, there’s a world shortage of the material to make socks, believe it or not, because the cuffing are a slightly different material than the regular nomax.

Right. So that stretchy material to make the heel Right, to make the cuffs, to make the heel, to make the band. Mm-hmm. That keeps it up. Yeah. Remember traditionally that’s polyester in today’s world and the last 30 years, you know, if you got all wool socks, that’s great. But [00:42:00] even then, the newer ones have the bands at the top old school socks didn’t have that.

It was just tight material. And after a while they stretched out cause it was just, and they fall down, you pick ’em up, down, they pull down and then Yeah. And then you get rid of ’em. Right. Well, I don’t want my Nomex socks that are, you know, that are. You know, not $6, but $30 to do that, you know, after a few sessions.

So the newer material is still Nomex, it has some elasticity to it, but because it’s a different blend, uh, getting it shipped around the world has been quite difficult. But we do plan on doing socks. Yeah. And the reason I bring up socks and shoes is because I’m gonna use a, a fake statistic here. 80% of the cars you see at the track, or any track realistically, are gonna be front engine cars except for your nine 11 s and your mid engine exotics and, you know, lotus and whatnot.

So what’s the first thing closest to the fire Sure. Is your feet. Yeah. Right. Well, I have protection seated. Um, also if you have a gutted card and you’ve taken a lot of. The, the heat wrap out. I’ve been in cars where I’ve melted the soles of my shoes, which is fine, but the rest of the shoe is not fireproof.

So if it was catching a [00:43:00] fire, that would be an issue for a second degree. Burns shoes are important. For the most part though, you see a lot of people wearing, they’ll be wearing jeans, but they’ll be wearing driving shoes, not because they’re worried about the thermal protection, but they’re like, oh, they’re standing, they’re gonna make me drive better.

Or that same thing with gloves that feel the wheel better. Sure. I appreciate that. You’re not wrong. I’m just glad it’s snow max and you’re doing something right. So you might as well make the lead eventually. I mean, if you’re going outta your way to wear a thicker pair of pants and anything, you know, a, a ray suit with some cotton boxers and a T-shirt underneath, or even a lot of guys don’t wear any shirt underneath, which is fine.

Just the more you sweat and the more that gets in the suit. Mm-hmm. Remember that the moisture is really the, the issue that causes, and don’t forget, you gotta put that moisture back in too. Right. So don’t forget our, our hydration episode. Keep, keep it clean. Literally. I mean like wash it is a big thing for your.

Wearing minimal clothing on. Do you recommend the molecule stuff? It works. It works. A lot of times it’s just really gentle [00:44:00] wash, you know, try not to use a permanent prostate stuff. Yeah, yeah. Don’t use a super strong detergent. What’s nice is if it’s actual nomex, the thread, the fibers product doesn’t lose its fire resistance.

There’s a lot of the one layer treated cottons out there that are cheaper. They do lose your fire resistance. Every time you wash, you wash. Which is also why they get softer too. Correct. So a lot of people out there with like quote unquote one layer suits, but there’s really not a lot of one layer Nomex suits.

They’re one layer cotton treated suits. I mean, if you wash ’em more than a handful of times, they’re basically just a cotton coverall. Right, exactly. At that point you’re heavy denim farmers, coverall. You could have bought Dickies at that tractor supply probably. It’s probably gonna be more resistant cause it’s thicker and it’s a twill material, which is, which can understand more damage now I think of all the things we’ve talked about, you know, you were talking about compromises and whatnot.

Shirts and pants and, and even gloves. You can, you can compromise on style and feel as long as they fit right. But I think [00:45:00] shoes is always gonna be a huge debate. It’s kind of funny because, you know, as guys. I don’t think we’re nearly as picky as, let’s say the female would be in general, where it’s like, you know, 60,000 different styles of shoes guys.

It’s like I got uh, four pairs of black and a brown. You know what I mean? We kind of don’t care. Mm-hmm. But when it comes to driving shoes, the shoe is now on the other foot. Yeah. We get super picky Sure. Do. About the driving shoes. And I will tell you, I’ve had a lot of different ones over the years, and I’m going back to what you said before in that like, chucks are great driving shoes.

Mm-hmm. And you can pick ’em up for, you know, 30, 40 bucks at Target or whatever. Sambas are like my go-to driving shoe because they are super comfortable. Yeah. And I can wear ’em all day in the panic. But then it’s like I used to wear Adidas superstars Exactly. On the shell tops. Exactly. Before I got wise.

I keep saying that before I got wise, I’d wear the shell tops. I had my pair of, uh, automats. Or we like to call ’em the prescription Chucks, they so hard, you know, they’re sitting right. I have a pair too. They’re great. Especially on a rainy track day. I’m [00:46:00] the best, best shoe ever. I’m the one to blame for that, for that fad.

But, um, but they, but that goes back to the point I feel like I’m bringing six pairs of shoes with me to a track day. So, because I gotta worry about the weather, I gotta worry about it. My coaching, so which car am I driving? It’s like a big thing you’ve unintentionally have stumbled onto. A secret that I’m working on, and I’ll share it with you, is that you got a universal shoe.

I am, I am trying. We were trying to, to combat figure way to manufacture a nomex Chuck Taylor. That’d be super cool. Here’s the issue with that. High rise or low rise. Here’s the issue with that. There we go. Everyone wants a lowrise. Unfortunately, if you look at the SFI regulations, They have to be at a certain height, a high time relative to the length of the boot.

So even the lowest you could do is theoretically a mid-rise to be SFI certified. However, because of the thickness of the sole and some of the other issues, it’s not necessarily like us to sell a product that’s not certified. Yeah. If I told you, Hey, listen, I’m either gonna [00:47:00] wear a Nomex shoe or I’m gonna wear.

My version of Chuck Taylor. Right. Because I’m gonna be flying around the path. Right. Well, if you’re committed to wearing not a certified shoe, at least let it be not a certified shoe in the material that can actually help you. Yeah, right. We are thinking about and in the design phase and trying to figure out how to get it right.

A Nomex Chuck Taylor. That’s awesome. Essentially. So yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re looking into it. Why Same idea as the undergarment shirt. Where it’s like, Hey, you can use it in conjunction in the system. You can use it without, and it’d be better than nothing cuz if you’re just gonna wear a T-shirt, well wear this t-shirt instead.

Right? But it’s not wasted money. So if you wanna use that as an undergarment, you can do that as well. I think this idea of shoe works, the other idea that we have, Also in the design phase and trying to figure it out is a proper certified Nomex shoe that is less of a driving shoe and more of a paddock shoe.

But this way you don’t have to change out. Right. Yeah. So what I’m so wear, [00:48:00] walk around and whatnot. And actually we may have one or two of them here for you to try and, and we were talking about this before we started recording. I mean, I’m right there with you because I find myself now I have an assortment of shoes, whether they’re track related or otherwise.

But the best shoes I found in the last two years, I have to thank my daughters for this. They picked me up a set of Pilates, proto Tippo, and I wear them all the time. Yep. Because I spend a lot of time behind the windshield. So not just at the track but on for work and stuff. Right. And just the way they’ve cut the heel and they have the tread coming down and how comfortable they are and you can heel toe in them.

Right. And you know, they’re comfortable in general. They’re kind of like my all around go-to shoe. But the problem is they’re still a driving shoe. So they have that. Kind of pointy nose, and then they’re swayed and you’re like afraid to take ’em anywhere, but you know, yeah. You wanna wear ’em all the time.

So it’s always this huge compromise. And, and to your point, if you could have a Nomex rated chuck or a samba or something like that, then it would be like the ultimate shoe. So we’re working on it. W So we have, uh, I showed you some of the, [00:49:00] of the prototypes we have now, believe it or not, some of those are designed to be worn, not just around the pattern.

You can get away with wearing them everywhere if you wanted to. Some of my testing has involved wearing them throughout the day, just like as my sparkle booties. I’d never do that. Ruined in 10 minutes. Correct. And we’re trying to do something where, Hey, wait a minute, we have a product that can do all this stuff and it’s still way cheaper than the designated one.

I, I think we’re on something. Again, I think it’s because we’re flexible and we’re a little bit overthinking. Yeah. We’re unique in that. Here I am telling you not to reinvent the wheel and that’s some of our product. But I think shoes, you kind of have to, but on the other hand, we’re also thinking about how can I make this.

More cost effective where you know, like, Hey, I’m gonna wear the shoe everywhere because I, you know, I wear a sneaker everywhere, right? Yeah. How can I combine it as someone who instructs, you don’t wanna be changing shoes like that. I don’t wanna be changing shoes, but I also don’t wanna be uncomfortable all day.

But I also had to set the example as being the safety guy. Yeah. So I’m like, you know, I’m aware that a couple weeks ago I was in West Virginia at the track, [00:50:00] bazillion degrees out, and I’m thinking, I’m getting in the car, I should be putting my suit on. Besides the desire I was running out of time to do that.

Cause I, I can’t walk around with the suit on cause it’s just blistering hot. I don’t care what suit you have. If you have the lice F one suit out there that weighs, currently the lice F ones three layer suits, 265 grams per square meter, which is ridiculously light, I’m still gonna be warm walking around, especially with no shade in 120 degrees.

Yeah. Yeah. And you’re in an asphalt desert, so it’s, it’s gonna be hot. So you’re gonna change it out of it. And then two. The lighter the suit is, the more susceptible it is to be damaged or losing its effectiveness if you’re sweating in it. Cuz now it’s an Under Armour shirt that’s soaked and you’re not, I mean, and that’s the same reason why you have to change helmets every five to 10 years because your sweat breaks down the material.

Sure. Unless you have one of the wonderful roof products that we sell that has interchangeable cheat pads. But other than that, but shout out to my boy to, I do love their helmets though. I give you Yeah, Totos a great guy too. He’s easy to work with. So shout out to Toto. If he hears it, we should get him on the podcast.

He’s a very nice guy. He [00:51:00] runs a couple companies, speed comes as well. So like just sweating in it, if it’s, damn, it’s gonna lose effectiveness. It’s actually gonna do the opposite. So if you get an issue where you’re relying on the suit, it being damp worse because you’re adding more moisture. Yeah. You’re adding more moisture to make more steam burn.

So a lot of people will dip their bell cols or hoods and like ice or water and then put it on their helmet. Try to keep it, some school, I understand the concept which you’re, you’re introducing potentially more damage. You’re actually reducing the effect. Effectiveness quite the opposite. At that point you’d be better off not wearing it at all.

Well, and then there’s the argument too that goes back to the episode we did with Ken about hydration. Make sure that your hydration regimen Yep. And everything is up to par and then you won’t nearly be as hot because you have the liquid inside. Exactly. You try to put it on yourself if you feel like you need it during a session cuz it’s too hot.

Well the ru helmet has to drink two minutes, so. Yeah, exactly. They got the shameless plug for them, but, and you can get ’em from us cheaper than anyone to focus on their own stuff. Yes, absolutely. So I think what people miss out on is the fact that moisture, uh, is the essence of [00:52:00] water. Yeah. Is, is really an issue.

You would think it’d help in the fire. It actually makes it worse. Right. I don’t know if you like lobster or not, but when you, you know, they boil to death and that’s really the burns that you get. So the burns that you get in the vehicle, like on track is not one where the fire is licking and, and burning your skin and charring it.

It’s where you’re getting begged from the inside out. Yeah. When you understand that and you take a step back and the look at some of the systems that are out there, you’re like, well wait a second. That seems really counterintuitive. Maybe cuz it’s wrong. Yeah. Or maybe it’s cuz they have a trick system.

So as we, as we kinda wrap up physics, this thought on all this, I do want to touch quickly on something you’ve mentioned a couple times, which is the certifications themselves. So without getting into the chemistry and the, and the physics and everything involved in those SFI versus FIA ratings, maybe explain for folks what the limitations are in terms of Yeah, I bought this suit, I picked it up from pmx.

A lot of people don’t realize there’s an expiration date. The timer is now ticking. You bought that suit. Yeah. Yeah. So what’s your schedule [00:53:00] look like now? So sfi. Good, bad or otherwise the suit’s s f I rated, it technically does not have an expiration date. However, anything that you wear multiple times a year definitely will be on top of especially how you keep it.

It’s cleanliness is really second to godliness, but you know, yes, it’s, it’s really determines the longevity of the suit. So if you wear it all the time but you keep it very clean and, and it’s obviously not too beat up, you’re fine. If you wear it and you sweat a lot like me, unfortunately I sweat a lot just standing still sometimes.

So I’m gonna get a lot of moisture in there so I can constantly gotta clean it. Well, you know, salt and other materials are there, it’s just gonna happen. Detergent getting in there, it’s gonna, so it’s gonna beat up on the material. So generally speaking, it suits you last you three years at least if, if you’re taking care of it, unless you’re like a super endurance race where you’re doing it all the time, then I would say be careful.

Don’t work on your car wearing the suits. Yeah. No kidding, right? Uh, oil and other contaminants are obviously gonna, unless you’re in a world rally, then you have to. Right. But then, but, but they’re getting new suits on this all the time. Right. Or do all those things. [00:54:00] But you’re buying one every year, at least up to you.

I don’t know what your budget is. Fia Now the new regulations, so the 8, 8, 5 8 or 8, 8, 5, 6 2000 rating suits still also did not have an expiration date. Now they do, now they’re 10 years. Okay. Um, and it’s 10 years not from the date of manufacturer. So that suit might have been designed in, let’s just say 2018, but you have a 2020 version.

So your suit will be good to December of 2030. So it’s 10 years calendar years. So if it’s a January, 2020, you have December until 2030. Right. So you really have 11 year if you, yeah, I was gonna say, is it like the helmets where there’s a certain, Nope. If it’s a December suit, then it’s still a December suit.

It doesn’t matter. So, okay. Does apparel come out every year or on a more regular frequency than the helmet suit? The helmets are always like every five years or so. So that’s the Snell rating. Snell does five years. F i a does it as it sees fit. So if they see that there’s been a significant jump in technology, they’ll start doing it.

For instance, seats, the previous model was 1999, was the FIA technical directive, right? [00:55:00] So your regular running middle seat, and then sort including halo’s seats and whatnot. The construction and the, and the rigidity and the integrity of it. It’s been the same standard since 1999. 2020 one’s a new standard.

It just came out. And right now for the consumer market, as of uh, September, 2021, there’s one company who has a 2021 seat. So the 2021 seats are kind of a mix between the, I believe it’s 2009 seats, which are kind of like your rally seats. Those are the much more advanced seats. So it kind of brings all the technology from that into the newer ones at a lower market price.

At one company that happens to uh, create that 2021 seat we were actually an importer of, so we’re waiting on our shipment of that. Oh, very cool. That’s exciting. The right of Italy. Very exciting. Does it end in an O? No, no, no, no, no, it does not. So suits are 2018 from 2000, so that’s pretty newer and they’re phasing out.

So I believe at the end of 2022, all suits must be all [00:56:00] new suits, cuz you can still buy 2000 technical directive fund suit and it’s technically still good for over 10 years, but the new ones are out and they’re phasing out. So at a certain date you can’t make the old style anymore, but still by the year out.

So yeah, the suits are rated longer than you’ll actually should be using them for now, if you use it once a year and that’s it, it’ll go all 10 years. If you’re using it multiple times, probably not. So is there a way to get your suit tested to see what its efficiency is? You could, but it would destroy the suit.

They’re gonna light it on fire. Yeah. Yeah. So essentially, so we actually have some of the test results and videos of our suits and material being tested, going back and forth with sfi by getting ’em online on our website. It’s gonna be really, really neat. One of our manufacturers actually already does that.

So it’s, it’s pretty nice to see on their YouTube channel. However, what you can do though, if you really wanted to do this individually, you could reach out to your manufacturer and say, Hey, send me, I’ll pay for it. Whatever the answer is, a test sample of the [00:57:00] material. So SFI uses, uh, seven by seven inch square materials, and it has to be constructed with exactly what the suit is constructed.

So if you use square quilt style stitching, it’s gotta be that. If you use diagonal, it’s gotta be that. If your inside layer is 190 grams per square meter and you’re outside, it’s two 20. It’s gotta be that. If it’s two 80 and one 50, whatever it is, it’s gotta be that. And they’ll test it and they’ll do the thermal protective properties.

So if you wanna do a certification, a recertification or what’s just called an r and d for the research and development, it’s different prices and they’ll send you results on it and they’ll tell you what the thermal protective property is. They’ll tell you what some of the, the shrinkage is. They have several different tests that they use.

Super informative. If you wanted to do that, you could to test like your individual suit that you would wear. No, not only would it destroy the suit if that were to do it, but they don’t test. SFI does an F I A requires a full sample, but SFI does not require an actual suit for the sample as much as just the material, not for the boots, gloves, undergarments, and [00:58:00] hoods.

They do require not only a similar test sample materials, but also a, a full sample. One other question as we’re wrapping up this whole entire thing, you know, we’re talking still about petrol engines, ice cars, right? Yeah. And which is what we predominantly see. Right. You know, as we talk more and more on this show about the EV revolution as we labeled it.

Not only do we have to worry about fire, but I think we need to worry about electrostatic shock or short circuits. Sure. In the electrical systems, is that something that suit and apparel manufacturers are considering is some sort of way of grounding the material? Sure. So how do we have, so a lot of electricians and, and, and I used to work in a warehouse many, many years ago and we had to have certain electric resistant boots.

Exactly. And they were mostly a rubber material flammability problem. Right. So, funny enough for sfi, uh, N F I A, the sole of the boot. Which is predominantly rubber or other materials is not tested because they know it’s gonna be bad, right? There’s really nothing you can do about it. The [00:59:00] outside of the boot, if it’s mouse way or a leather, is also not tested because there’s a general understanding of its thermal protects property.

It’s just it is what it is. Whereas nomax, different versions, different weights are gonna have different protected property, but that’s why your boots, the inside layer is uh, nomax and other different fire retardant properties, and that does get tested. If we were going to worry about electrostatic shock as a new manufacturer and someone who’s kind of like experimenting with the different materials.

So I look at how the boots are made now. You have a outer layer that’s maybe more protective against that threat and the inner layer is still no mix. So the outside’s gonna have maybe lesser thermal protective properties or it could be more cuz it’s thicker material. So the suede, you know, thick house weights still gonna be slow to burn.

And by transfer more heat, yeah, it’s gonna be slow to burn. And the, the inside being. No, max. I, I don’t know the exact answer to that. It’s, it’s a great question. Well, and I bring it up because, not [01:00:00] because of your, you know, guy that bought a Tesla and he wants to go to the Triac and try it out and like, I think it’s because of what we heard earlier this year, we talked about on drive-thru episode, which is the n h RRA has fully sanctioned an EV class.

It’s, it’s the first motor sport discipline to go electric And Ford’s full. Well, other than Formula E, right? Yes. Well, I mean Ford, I was just reading there they have a Cobra. That’s a Mustang, that’s an ev. That’s fast. Yeah. And they refuel it. So you gotta think about a slightly, you have to think other risks at that point.

Here’s the thing with ev and that’s a great point. Electrostatic shock and all that, but to be honest with you, with EVs, the fire danger increases, right? Mm-hmm. You can put a gas fire out, you can put fire material. If it’s burning paint or you’re inside your interior, your, uh, whatever electrical fire, you can put that out.

A Tesla, an EV fire, you’re gonna be sitting there burning. Because they can spray you all you want. It ain’t going out. Mm-hmm. Right. So you gotta get outta the car fast. Just like anything else. However, [01:01:00] your system, your fire suppression system, if you’re fortunate enough to have one in your car, which you should, if the car’s that dedicated, it’s not gonna do you literally squat because as long as there’s an electrical charge and the batteries, if the, if the batteries are on fire, it’s going to burn.

So as a firefighter, here’s my experience with that. We’re getting additional training on the EVs and Teslas and whatnot. You may have seen the story about a Tesla that burned for 30 some hours. Mm-hmm. Down in Texas. Mm-hmm. It’ll burn as long as there’s fuel, no amount of chemical you’re gonna pour on that car is gonna make that battery have less electrical properties and sometimes it might make ’em worse.

Correct. Yeah. You know, spraying water on it might make it worse. So if we get to that point, so, I’m less worried about electrical current as far as it shocking me or or doing damage as electrical current and more worried about electrical current and the fact that it’s the energy it produces that can’t be put out by like traditional firefighting methods.

Yeah. Which is all we have inside of the car right now, which means that you need to be better at preventing burns and then trying to stop them [01:02:00] or put them out after the fact a suit, it becomes much more important than an EV because your priorities out of the car. Not I have a fire, let me hit my suppression system.

Hopefully it goes out and then take my time. And that’s much more tensey too. I need, uh, more protection from higher degrees of burns and getting out quick here and giving me more time to do so. As much as we might need a new material or thought process for the new technology, we actually need more of the same, even more so of what’s already out there to protect us.

Well, John, this has been a really good look at safety from a different perspective, right? We’ve covered safety on this show before, but this is a great way to reintroduce it from another angle, another vector, and kind of expand our minds on things that we probably take for granted on a, on a track weekend.

So I want to thank you for that, but I also wanna give you the opportunity to shout out to anybody you want, but also tell people how they can get ahold of you for more information. Absolutely. So project murdering.com, the website. Is up, it’s gonna be [01:03:00] constantly evolving as we bring, uh, products to market.

We’re always accessible. You can email us our contact information’s on there, obviously phone number, Facebook, Instagram, email, website. We’re at, you’re at Project Motoring on Instagram? Yep, sure are. And then same thing on Facebook. We’re pretty much at all of hooked on driving Northeast events. We’re set up shop there.

If we’re not actually staffing the event, we’re walking around trying to help out. We are at SCCA and NASA events, uh, as we, as we continue to grow. So the big thing we like to do is try to be Trackside to meet people, say hello, put names and faces. But also because we are accustomed, we like to measure people get things right.

And again, it’s, it’s, it’s a similar price point as off the shelf, but custom, our big market we we’re teasing before about PMs is actually ladies because. Ladies have a very difficult time finding product that fits them off the shelf. Another sneak peek is we have a SFI sports bra coming for the ladies who need that because Very cool.

Those are basically polyester and yeah, our uh, and a little bit of metal too. [01:04:00] Yeah. Yeah. That’s all good. All things that are real terrible. So, so you can find us there. If you have any questions, reach out to us. We’re one of you we’re core people. We’re track people. We’re everywhere, as they say. Fourth petrolheads.

Yeah, all petrolheads. Yeah. So we appreciate coming back. I always appreciate hanging out with GTM guys. It’s, it’s our second home, or third home, or it’s one of our homes. So always appreciate it and thank you for your time. Yeah, John, it’s been an absolute pleasure. So again, folks, if you wanna learn more about Pmx and Project Motoring, visit www.projectmotoring.com or follow them on Instagram at Project Motoring.

So John, I can’t thank you enough for coming back on the show and we hope to have you back on several more times now that you’re here. More permanently. Yeah, I think we’ve got a lot of content coming. Up, so very cool.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get [01:05:00] involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief gt motorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

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