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Built to Win: Inside Garretson Enterprises and the Rise of the Apple 935

June 13, 2023

In the golden age of sports car racing, amid the roar of turbocharged flat-sixes and the haze of pit lane fuel, Bob Garretson carved out a legacy not with flash or fanfare, but with quiet determination, mechanical ingenuity, and a deep love for the Porsche marque. On this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we sat down with Bob to trace his unlikely journey from Navy veteran and Silicon Valley engineer to 1981 World Endurance Champion.

Photo courtesy International Motor Racing Research Center

Bob’s story begins in Southern California, where his older brother’s exploits at Muroc Dry Lake sparked a curiosity for speed. But it wasn’t until a high school friend dragged him to a sports car race at Hanson Dam that the road racing bug truly bit. “Those guys got to drive for 20 minutes,” Bob recalled. “We only got 20 seconds in drag racing. I thought, there’s a better deal here.”

After college and a stint in the Navy, Bob found himself overhauling Ford V8s on weekends to make ends meet. But a chance encounter at a Silicon Valley party led him into the burgeoning semiconductor industry, where he invented a critical chip manufacturing component. With newfound financial freedom, he returned to his passion – cars – and began building what would become Garretson Enterprises.

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What started as a side hustle servicing Porsches in his garage soon evolved into a full-fledged operation. With the help of Bruce Anderson and a few savvy investors, Bob opened a dedicated shop in Mountain View, California. Garretson Enterprises quickly earned a reputation for meticulous preparation and innovation – equal-length headers, custom intercoolers, and bulletproof exhausts were just the beginning.

Their big break came when Dick Barbour, frustrated with repeated DNFs, handed over his 934.5 to Garretson’s team. The result? A win at the 1978 Sebring 12 Hours with Brian Redman and Bobby Rahal (above). “That was kind of an exciting start,” Bob said with a chuckle.

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, we welcome Bob Garretson, a prominent figure in sports car racing during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Bob shares his journey from Southern California, where his passion for cars and racing began under the influence of his older brother, through university, the Navy, and an accidental career start in Silicon Valley. He recalls founding Garretson Enterprises, a notable racing and car service enterprise. Bob recounts his memorable races, including victories at the 12 Hours of Sebring and the 24 Hours of Daytona, and his interactions with legendary racers like Brian Redman and Bobby Rahal. He discusses his experiences with iconic cars such as the Porsche 935 and reflects on his illustrious career and graceful departure from racing. The episode also sheds light on Garretson Enterprises’ legacy, highlighting the camaraderie and unique stories of the Porsche racing community.

Tell us about the who/what/when/where of Bob Garretson, how did you get into cars? And eventually into racing? Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?
What’s Garretson Enterprises?
How did the Apple 935 come to be?
What was it like racing with and against folks like Brian Redman, Bobby Rahal, Al Holbert, Randy Lanier and others.
It’s been said that the Porsche 935 was one of the most challenging cars to drive and master; what was the appeal of that car over others, and what was it like to drive? Did you still hold the 935 in the same regard?
What have you been doing in the racing world since dissolving the team? Did you go back to racing?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job? Or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us. Because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Being the owner and driver of a sports car team during the heyday of sports car racing in the late 1970s and early 80s can be challenging, but also very rewarding. Competing part time in both the World Sports Car Championship and IMSA GT Championship, during 1978, Arges accomplished a win at the Sebring 12 Hours, along with veteran racer Brian Redmond and Bobby Rayhall.

Arges won the 24 Hours of Daytona, but despite not winning another race that season, he won the first ever awarded [00:01:00] World Endurance Championship for driver’s title in 1981. He sold his team and retired from racing shortly thereafter. But that’s just the beginning. So tonight, I’d like to welcome back Mike Carr from the Randy Lanier episode as my co host, who is a huge fan of the golden era of sports car racing.

And with that, we are both pleased to welcome Bob Gerritsen to Break Fix to tell his story. So welcome, Bob. Thank you very much for that introduction.

Mike Carr: Very nice to be here with you, Bob. Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: So Bob, like all good Brake Fix stories, there’s always an origin. So tell us about the who, what, where, and when of Bob Gerritsen.

How did you get into cars and eventually into racing? Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?

Bob Garretson: Well, I, uh, grew up in Southern California, and my older brother, who is quite a bit older than I am, but he was into going up to Muroc, Dry Lake, and trying to, you know, run the speed stuff. So I thought, well, when I got to drive, I should do the same thing.

So I fiddled [00:02:00] around, but didn’t enthuse me very much. And so then a high school friend of mine saw a sports car race being run at Hanson Dam in the, in San Fernando Valley. Southern California. So we went to that, look at my friend. And I said, look at those guys get to drive for 20 minutes and we only get to drive for 20 seconds.

I think there’s a better deal. So got interested in road racing, then went off to university and do much of anything until I got out of the Navy after graduation, I worked my way through college. Overhauling Ford V8. My dad worked at Warner Brothers Studio and he would find people that needed an engine overhaul.

So I would come home on the weekend, pick up a car, take it home, pull the engine out, tear it all down, send the block and heads and stuff out to the vendors to grind the valves and bore the cylinder and all that kind of stuff. I come home the next weekend. I’m trying to get it all back together and on the third weekend i would come [00:03:00] put the engine back in and deliver the car when i graduated from uc berkeley i want to work for hewlett packard when i was working at hp silicon valley started to go at a party one night a guy.

Telling me about he was starting a new chip manufacturing company. And so I jokingly said to him, well, if you need a mechanical engineer, let me know. Well, he called me up the next day and hired me. So I got in on the ground floor of Silicon Valley was lucky enough to invent something that every chip maker needed patented and all that kind of stuff.

Now I had money to play with and go racing. So that’s what one of my close friends is. Another name you most likely know. Chuck Forge, he had the Johnny Von Neumann car and we got to be friends and he let me drive it a few times and then I got hooked. But by then I had acquired four children and things like that and my wife said, I don’t think it’s a great idea for you to be out road racing.

So I said, well, you know, [00:04:00] okay. She said, I don’t mind if you’re the only one on the track, you know, not competitive wheel to wheel. So I took off and started doing hill climbs and autocrosses and things like that.

Mike Carr: And you’re in your twenties at that point, I presume.

Bob Garretson: Well, thirties almost, but along about them, one of the guys I used to compete against with at Porsche parades and stuff like that was a guy by the name of Dick Barber, which I’m sure you all know.

You know, we used to talk and I would go to Laguna Seca, for example, and I’d see him and he, I’d say, Dick, you ought to have Garrison Enterprise prepare your car. He says, no, no, no, I have a great mechanic and all this stuff. I said, all right, fine. At Laguna Seca, he DNF’d, so that’s why I suggest he ought to have us take care of his car.

So next time I saw him was at Sears Point. Same thing happened. Well, he got pretty ticked off at his people and told him to take the car down to Mountain View, where our shop was. So we started preparing that. Well, the first race it went out to [00:05:00] run was the finale at Atlanta. Of course, wouldn’t you know, in practice, something happened.

And God, here I am saying how wonderful we are and all that stuff. Well, it turns out that the Porsche truck was there and I could get the parts needed and fix it and he finished the first race in these nine thirty four and a half. So next year he bought a new nine thirty five said to him, I said, Dick, you ought to let me drive the spare car.

And he agreed that I said, if you can drive it as long as you’ll drive with renter riders that pay to sit in the seat. The first race was the 78 Sebring race. Brian Redman was just recovering from his big Formula 5000 accident. Joe Hoppin was running Porsche Racing in America, and he convinced Barber that, you know, I guess paid him some money, of course, to put Redman in the seat with me, which is fine.

The owner of the Sebring track was the third driver. And so we went [00:06:00] off and, uh, as the night went on, everybody broke and stuff like that. And, uh, here we go win the race. So that was kind of an exciting start. And I didn’t race many races after that. I did Le Mans, which I crashed on the Mulsanne straight at four o’clock in the morning.

Uh, didn’t really get serious as far as I was concerned about racing until the next year when we ran the whole season. Did, you know, Bond didn’t win any races in my whole career in IMSA. I only won two races. So one of them was Daytona and the other was Sebring. So we went on and ran and prepared the SACS car for Barbara up through 1980.

81, Barbara quit racing. So I was left with what to do. And there was another team of Roy Woods and Cook. Brian Redman came to me and he said, look, a new car coming over, new Lola. Which he is supposed to drive. He said, uh, I want you guys to prepare the [00:07:00] car. The car wasn’t ready for Daytona and the car wasn’t ready for Sebring.

And finally it showed up at Laguna Seca. We brought the car down from Mountain View and ran it. Bobby Rahal drove the 935 at that race. Of course, the Lola T70 won the race, and Brian went on to win the IMSA championship. But at Le Mans in that year, I drove with Annie Charlotte Vernet and Ralph Kent Cook, and we got in a big fight over some stuff, and I was on my own.

But my car that we drove at Le Mans. So I just went and carried on on my own going to the races I could afford. I was, you know, not in the big financial position like those guys cook and stuff. And so I finally had to give up in about August. I just couldn’t afford it anymore. I get this telephone call from Juergen Barth at Porsche.

Juergen says, Bob, are you coming to Brands Hatch? I said, [00:08:00] why do I want to go to Brands Hatch? He says, well, you’re leading in the world championship. You’ve got to come to Brands Hatch. Word got out that some of the guys that I’d driven with, one of them’s sponsor was Flying Tiger Airlines, and he convinced Flying Tigers to fly the car to England and back.

All the crew guys, I said, I can’t, can only take a couple of you. And they all came on their own and stuff like that and we made it over there and we finished second in the race but group C what had been formed so they ran group C cars and group five cars, uh, four are driven by a couple of formula one guys.

Won the race, but we finished second and won the world championship, winning the world championship and then having and going through a divorce. I moved to England and that was, that was it.

Mike Carr: I want to talk to you about your approach to choices in terms of what races you enter. They had sort of a manufacturer’s prize going on, and privateers [00:09:00] were racing a set of races, and then the makers were racing a different set of races, focusing on winning that maker’s trophy.

And it seems like it added up to you not only winning the season, but assuring your place in the FIA Hall of Fame on a limited season of select entries, maybe half the entries were in us and half the entries were in Europe. Which did you focus on?

Bob Garretson: I only did six races out of the 10, five in the United States and one in Europe.

One of the brands hatched the finale, but you know, the old adage, you got to finish to win. We finished every race. That was the goal.

Mike Carr: Another thing that struck me as unusual is Lancia as the maker won that year. Over Porsche and other manufacturers. I’m confounded as to how that happened.

Bob Garretson: The car that beat us at Brands Hatch was a Ford.

It was a Group C car, not a Group 5. This is the thing that kind of upsets me a little bit, is that the race was for the world championship [00:10:00] in endurance racing. Yet they allowed cars that weren’t in that championship to compete and

Mike Carr: a

Bob Garretson: group C car is going to beat a nine 35 every single time, especially if you’ve got two formula one drivers sitting in it and have tested it and all that kind of stuff.

And I just felt that we kind of got cheated a little bit in the quote glory that the team and the effort and Porsche and everybody else put forth. Yeah, we’d won the world championship, but the world championship really didn’t become. A big deal until all the cars were running group C cars and Jackie X was my successor.

And then, you know, it goes on and on and on from there.

Mike Carr: You just laid down an immense amount of information where I want to go back to is how you had a wife who told you that she didn’t want to see you doing wheel to wheel, but you had a race shop. that was better than the shops that were working on competitors cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Behind all this is Gerritsen Enterprises, so let’s talk about what that is, [00:11:00] its history, what it’s all about, and how that was fueling, basically, your racing career.

Bob Garretson: I had a 356 Porsche. And a Ford station wagon,

right? Well, when I was telling you about this Hanson damn race and wanting to get a sports car rather than a dragster, the car I wanted to get was an Austin Healy. So you’ll mark two. I had one all lined up to buy the guide. I was going to buy it from died and his wife sold the car trying to get rid of stuff before she contacted me.

Anyway, when I was in the Navy, I went back to a homecoming. Event at the fraternity house and met the guy that I’d gone to school with there. We got talking about cars and I told him, well, I’m trying to buy an Austin Healey. He said, ah, you don’t want to buy an Austin Healey. He said, come with me. We go outside and there’s a little 356 coupe sitting there.

An early model, uh, not even an A. He said. Come with me. We’ll go for a ride. Well, [00:12:00] that was it. I went after that ride. I had to have a 356. I saved everything up and in January 1958, I bought a 57 356 and that’s where I started having fun driving a lot. I used to autocross and hill climb all the time.

Crew Chief Eric: This comes right at the heels of the whole James Dean situation with him.

Bringing the 356 into the popular view of, you know, Southern California. And then he switches to the 550 and then his untimely death. We covered this in a previous episode with Lee Raskin, but you’re right in the middle of all this. Was that also a factor in you getting your 356 or why it suddenly just was there as a popular car?

Bob Garretson: After, and I couldn’t, and I didn’t get the Austin Healy. I started looking into when I got the HP. I said, there’s seven Porsches sitting out in the parking lot. You know, they’re going to need service at night at home. I had four kids and the wife and trying to buy a house and all this stuff. So I have always was [00:13:00] short of money.

So I approached a few of these guys and you need service on your car and oil change, you know, all this kind of stuff. So I started doing that at night in my garage. One of the guys that worked there knew nothing about cars, but it was very interesting guy by the name of Bruce Anderson. You may hear that rallying around the Porsche world.

So he started hanging around and finally one day he said, can you come with me to my parents house and have a talk with my father? Oh my god, what did I do now? He was getting elderly and wanted to get his sons into some kind of business where they could be independent. So he said, look, if you’ll open up a shop and do this on a full time basis.

With these two kids and not me working full time because I’m staying at HP, I’ll finance the start. So that’s where Garretson Enterprises started. We grew out of a one stall to two stalls to four stalls on a industrial complex. Then [00:14:00] when my mother passed away, my brother and I built a purpose building with seven lifts, a dino room, and all this stuff and started working on preparing race cars.

And that’s where it all got going. This whole thing with Barber started and after he agreed to bring the car down and stuff like that, we decided that, look it, we can’t work on race cars in the shop designed to run for street cars doing everyday service. So we put a hole in the fence in the back and there was an industrial site behind us and we rented a couple of places there and that’s where Garrison Racing was and we kept the name Garrison Enterprises on the cars and stuff like that to advertise the street shop.

Mike Carr: Head of technology at Google, you know, at some point he found himself with some money to do some racing, which good for him.

Bob Garretson: The funniest thing was, I don’t know if you were aware, but Steve Jobs had a 356, didn’t run, but he had a 356 and Wozniak had a [00:15:00] 928. He used to bring to us for service. The, uh, head of, um, public relations or whatever it is, also had a Porsche 911 or some kind that brought it to Garrison Enterprises for service.

And so, one day, a guy was coming to pick his car up and Steve Jobs drove him to the shop. And so I went up to him and I said, you know, you guys ought to sponsor a race car. Steve says, no, no, no, no way. We, you know, what’s that going to do for me? Well, when was the, I came back to pick up his car. See, I didn’t work there.

I never worked at Garrett’s enterprise because I was too busy in the, in the chip semiconductor business. But I used to come every day at lunchtime, every day at the end of the day, spend a couple hours there getting everything working right. And met these guys. And so after was asked about it and he was a little more.

Enthusiastic well, uh, advertising guy said, Hey, I think it’s a great idea. We’re opening a new campus in Cupertino. [00:16:00] I think it’d be just a absolute barn burner. If we had a nine 35 sitting out there on the apron, you know, with all the Apple colors. So I don’t know if you ever saw the Apple car, but in 1980, it was sort of the neatest looking.

935 running so that was a great event and that’s the car everybody that ever. It says, Oh, do you drove the apple car? And I said, yeah, I drove the apple car.

Mike Carr: Do you know how many tributes to that car have been built over the years?

Bob Garretson: Oh, no, I don’t. But there’s a whole bunch of them in Europe. Anyway, the guy that owns my 935 now, you’ll know the name, Adam Carollo.

We’ve heard of him. He’s a comedian, but he’s a nice guy, great guy. Matter of fact, at the last Monterey Historic System in August, I asked him, I said, this year’s races was sponsored by Le Mans, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, because they were trying to get people to come to the 100th anniversary of the race.

They were going to have demonstration [00:17:00] laps. They were trying to get all the drivers and all the cars that ever raced at Le Mans. Come over there. So anyway, I approached Adam. I said, Adam, would it be possible in these demonstration laps, you’re supposed to be following a pace car around and stuff like that, no racing or anything.

I said, would it be possible to drive the nine 35? I mean, I, first of all, I had to get permission from my wife because she doesn’t think I should do it, but anyway, she finally agreed. And so he let me drive the car, which. I mean, I can’t believe I drove that thing competitively. I mean, well, of course, I’m 89 years old now, so just unbelievable.

Just fantastic car.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s been said that the Porsche 935 is one of the most challenging cars to drive and to master. Tell us about that experience. experience, what you can remember of driving it. What’s the appeal of that car over others? Is it one of the best 911s ever? If you think about it in comparison, do you still hold the 935 in the same regard today knowing what you know about all the modern Porsches?

Mike Carr: How did it [00:18:00] compare to the 956?

Bob Garretson: Well, it was 956, of course, a whole different car. It was a ground effects car, 935, you know, had aerodynamics, but didn’t have any ground effects. I never drove a 962, so I can’t really comment on that, but the beauty of the 935 was how much of a beast it was. There was no finesse in that car.

You did it with brute force and… Ignorance and just, I mean, I was absolutely amazed when I drove this car this year and how fast it was. I mean, the acceleration was unbelievable in the day, you know, didn’t have that kind of an impression on you, but coming back almost 50 years later, uh, 40 years later anyway, it’s just unbelievable.

And the other thing that was interesting about the car, it had a locked rear end. Oh, you have to, you know, meet your down shifts and everything or else got squirrelly and stuff like that. And what I noticed was [00:19:00] driving the car this time, when I accelerated, it pulled to the right. And when I decelerated, it pulled to the left.

Come to find out that Adam Carolla and his mechanics that own the car know nothing about tire stagger. So with two different size rear tires, Uh, you’re going to get, you know, different actions on the acceleration and decelerate. So anyway, that’s one thing they’re getting straightened out. Cause he kept complaining.

He kept telling me what do I do to stop spinning out? I spin out. Well, I think this is what happens. He lets off on the gas and all of a sudden the car jerks one way and he doesn’t prepare for it. He’s not a better active driver and anything, but historic races and stuff like that. And most of the people that drive the 935s now, there’s a special limited slip differential made just for the car and they put that in so they don’t have this problem.

Mike Carr: Can we talk about 1981? Sure. So you’re with Redmond. It sounds like he may have been the motivating force to get you on track with [00:20:00] him. Is that right?

Bob Garretson: No. The way Redmond came along with, I told you about Sebring in 78.

Mike Carr: Yeah.

Bob Garretson: Somebody came to Joe Hoffman and said, Can you get Brian Redman a ride in the car?

He wants to start coming back. This was after his big accident in Canada. And so Arbor said, well, yeah, how much are you going to subsidize me for doing this? And it was just at the last minute, basically that he joined the team. So it was myself and Redman and. The guy that owned Sebring at the time was Charles Mendez

Mike Carr: was

Bob Garretson: it?

Mike Carr: You find yourself in your mid to late 40s.

Bob Garretson: When I won the championship in 81 I was 48 years old.

Mike Carr: And I think Redmond at the time was probably about 45. Yeah. And then you’ve got Rahal on the team and he’s a 28 year old kid. Who has found some success in F1 and F3, and his career is just taking off. How did you

Bob Garretson: hook up with him?

Mike Carr: Well,

Bob Garretson: here again

Mike Carr: at Sebring.

Bob Garretson: Wasn’t 78, but it was [00:21:00] one year at Sebring. He had just lost his ride with Wolf in Formula One when Wolf went broke. And so he didn’t have any ride. And so he came down to. Sebring looking around, talking to teens and, you know, asking to get a ride with him and stuff like that.

Mike Carr: He’s dock walking. He’s looking for a job. That’s great.

Bob Garretson: And Barbara said, yeah, you can drive. And so that’s how we got together. And then Bobby and I became. Yeah, even though there’s quite a difference in the race, we became very close friends. My wife and I and Bobby’s parents were great friends. We used to go back and stay with him and do things all the time.

And Bobby’s dad decided he wanted to run the Mille Miglia, you know, the repro of the Mille Miglia. So he asked me to get him a car, so I got a 550 Spyder for him. We ran that three years in a row, you know, things like that. That’s a Bobby and I are just great friends in France. They run a thing called a tour auto, which is a tour around France [00:22:00] and the doing race circuits along the way.

So Bobby and I, Ray Hall and I did that three times and one year, the last year we did it, we did it in a three liter RS 911. So one of the circuits that we’re going to drive is the old Nurburgring. And I don’t know how long it had been since Bobby had driven the course, but he still knew the turns. He says, okay, we’re, we’re going to come around the corner here.

It was a left hander. And he says, you’re going to see all kinds of cars over in the grass, up against the guardrail on the outside. Sure enough, we come up there and come flying around the corner. And there are all these cars sitting there. And you know, he still remembered after 10 years before the last time he raced, he still remembered all this stuff.

You know, just so simple for him. You always knew that he was in control, such a nice personality. Doesn’t have any errors about how great he is and stuff like that. He just, it’s just Bobby nowhere near the driver. He [00:23:00] is, but he’s unbelievable.

Mike Carr: Were you driving against the Randys and the Bob Wallocks and the other drug dealers in the early 80s who would buy a 935 at Le Mans with a bag full of cash?

No, you mean like, uh, Preston? Yes, we spent some time talking about Preston

Bob Garretson: Henn. Yeah. Well, Preston Henn was actually a nice guy, but, uh, just… Well, John Paul Sr. was the guy that was, uh… Real bad actor. And I felt sorry for his son because he had to live under that cloud, but it all right.

Mike Carr: Randy Lanier told us that John Paul Jr.

was the faster of the two.

Bob Garretson: Oh, definitely. John Paul Sr. was not that fast. He drove one of Barber’s cars at Aledega. Well, I didn’t drive at that race, but Arbor was faster than John Paul er in our car. I don’t know if in his own cars and stuff like that what he had, but,

Mike Carr: and then I was thinking of the Whittingtons.

Bob Garretson: Oh, the Whittingtons. Yeah. They now Whittingtons were good drivers. They were competitive all the time. I guess if you can fly AP [00:24:00] 51 Mustang, you can drive a sports

Crew Chief Eric: car, especially at 9 35. I mean, they’re probably on the same scale, right? Yes, that’s right.

Mike Carr: I think AB 51 might be better behaved.

Bob Garretson: Yeah, I don’t think you can spin out as fast in a P 51 as you can in a 935. You

Mike Carr: can’t pull over, but the ground’s pretty far away. That’s

Bob Garretson: right. Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s gotta be a big jump going from autocross and hill climb right into sports car racing, into Camel GT and IMSA. And back then it was a little bit more open.

Everybody was building a better mousetrap, trying to build the best car, trying to one up each other and whatnot. What was it like? Out on track, not just in the 935, but some of your competitors, were there clear advantages and disadvantages between the cars? What was the competition like back then? We’re, you know, we’re talking about some of the drivers right now, but even in your short time, did you have some rivals?

Did you make friends? Like what was it like in those days?

Bob Garretson: That era, everybody was [00:25:00] friendly. I mean, you, you didn’t fear talking to anybody that they were going to get any secrets or anything like that. I think the biggest difference that I found in the racing in that was the preparation of the cars.

There were guys that was spending tons of money that cars were terrible. Put a Bob Wallach in a car and it doesn’t perform like somebody else’s car that he sits in. That’s what we always prided ourselves on is that, well, we tried to make it as good as we, as it could possibly be made. And we did lots of little things.

driving it easier. And we were the first ones to put on big intercoolers. I mean, we built special exhaust systems because Porsche one was made out of 303 stainless and they would crack and break and stuff like that. We made ours out of 400 series stainless because it doesn’t transfer as much heat.

Therefore you get more turbo action and, you know, little things like that. Equal length [00:26:00] pipes was the Porsche one was. Three into one into, you know, we felt that you had to not only outdrive them, but you had to outsmart them. Well, and the poor victim of that, he’s dead now, so he can’t come after me, but poor Bob Aiken, he spent.

Tons of money trying to get things done. There was always some screwball thing going on with his car. This is the 935, not when he got into the 956 or whatever it was. Anyway, that’s just one man’s opinion anyhow.

Crew Chief Eric: As you were coming up through your driving, and then you got onto the big stage on the IMSA and the Camel GT series, Did you have any coaches?

Did you have mentors? Did you have other drivers that you were just chasing them around and learning from them on the fly? Like, how did you develop yourself as a driver going from autocross and hill climb to pro racing?

Bob Garretson: Well, I think in all kinds of racing, the objective is the same thing. You’re trying to win.

You either teach yourself or you find out [00:27:00] somehow what to do. And I think that in my case, it was never driven a 935 until Sebring in 78. He got in the car and away we went. I don’t know, it just sort of came natural, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: Were there any drivers that you looked up to? I mean, on that roster of names, when you look at those years specifically you race, you’ve got people like Chip Ganassi, you’ve got AJ Foyt, you’ve got David Hobbs, Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg.

I mean, you were rubbing elbows with all sorts of famous drivers from that era. Were there guys that you were looking up to? Or that, again, you were chasing around the track trying to learn from them on the fly?

Bob Garretson: One of the guys that I thought was absolutely fantastic is Hurley Haywood. Yeah, I mean, you certainly looked up to guys like Wallach.

And I got to drive twice in the 935. I got to drive with Rick Mears and Johnny Rutherford. They were teammates at Watkins Glen two times.

Mike Carr: Did you run with any other indie winners? Yeah, right. I mean, you got Rahal,

Bob Garretson: Mears. Yeah. No, [00:28:00] those are the only ones. I didn’t drive with him, but Rolf Stamlin drove a couple of times with Barbara in the other car.

He was a guy that thought he was the greatest, you know. We were at Sebring one year, and my first wife was with me. Stamlin fancied himself as quite a tennis player. My wife was quite a tennis player too, so they went and played and she beat him. And you talk about a miserable guy for the next, seemed like the whole time from then on, but just a very interesting guy.

I couldn’t feel like we were on the same wavelength most of the time. Wallach was a nice guy. He’s quiet. You had to almost pull the words out of him. You know, it was a shame of what happened to him.

Crew Chief Eric: What about Mike’s number one guy, not Randy, but Al Holbert.

Bob Garretson: Yeah, Al was, he was great because here again, another guy that thought about things to do and didn’t just get in a car and drive.

I mean, he was involved in the car itself.

Mike Carr: [00:29:00] I’m from Doylestown and that’s where Al’s from and his father, Bob, they kind of had a big role in Porsche factory racing in America going all the way back. It was really fun to go to different tracks. This is how I know of you. Because you were racing against him at places that my family would visit with the Holbrook family.

The loss of Al was just huge, but ignoring that for the moment. Watching him race against you, watching you beat him, watching Randy Lanier beat him when he’s driving a factory sponsored 962.

Bob Garretson: I’d like to try driving one.

Mike Carr: It’s what engendered my love for this sport.

Bob Garretson: Well, one of the things about Porsche is that the Porsche world, you’ve got friends no matter where you go in the world.

I don’t know if any other car make has the camaraderie that the Porsche world has. You think about Germans being cold and hard and rigid and all this kind of stuff, yet the factory is open once you’ve like, I was [00:30:00] fortunate to work with them, but it’s a totally different atmosphere. I had a Ferrari for a while.

I used to run the Virginia city hill climb with it and nobody, unless you’re somebody or you got the latest, greatest thing, nobody really wants to talk to you. Porsches are not that way. It’s a different life. You try to explain that. Like my second wife, when we got married, she said, what the hell? You know, next thing you know, she’s immersed in this thing.

And it’s just unbelievable. Anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: This brings up a great question, Bob. So since you left racing, have you really left racing? Where does the story of Gerritsen Enterprises go? Is it still in continuation today? You mentioned the meal Amelia. Are you still up until this point? Are you have you been active in the racing community, even though not being on the big stage at him?

So,

Bob Garretson: no, no, I haven’t. I don’t know if you’re aware, but I did crash at Lamont 1st time. I race [00:31:00] there 4 o’clock in the morning 2 more laps to go on my. I’m going down the Mulsanne straight and come to the kink, which they don’t have anymore. All of a sudden the rear end starts to come out and you forget how fast you’re going and way overcorrected and it went the other way.

And of course I crashed into the barrier and the car flipped over. I counted seven times that we went over, but ended up on all four wheels. And even though he wasn’t a teammate. Brian Redmond stopped and asked if I was all right. And uh, yep. I don’t know if I’ve ever driven at Le Mans, but it’s quite an experience.

And the thing that will always be in the back of my mind is when it rains over there. You go flying down the Mulsanne Strait, we’re doing 200 miles an hour. Other cars are maybe doing 120, 140. You come across this cloud, and it looks like a heavy fog. You pray that the guy in the slow lane that you’re going to pass is [00:32:00] going to stay there.

I mean, you go into the cloud and you can’t see a thing until you come out the other side. And it’s quite an experience. I’ve managed to walk away. The hardest thing on the whole situation was getting out of the damn car because the doors wouldn’t open. I didn’t think that there was no windshield in the car.

I could have climbed out that way. Only the corner workers managed to bend the window frame. Down because, you know, we had to have nets on the windows because we were running into class so I could climb out through the window and didn’t get hurt at all after 81. I did. I think you did into some part of 83.

I drove Daytona in 82 and then 83. We converted the car 935 to basically a 934. They raced as a GTO car rather than a Group 5 car. I drove it a couple times, but just didn’t have any enthusiasm for [00:33:00] them.

Mike Carr: Are

Bob Garretson: you

Mike Carr: satisfied having left the arena when you did? You had had such success, and then you moved on.

Bob Garretson: Oh yeah, no, I mean, I quit on top and that was very satisfying and I, you know, I’m not sorry at all that I ever stopped. I tried to help various people along the way, just like I said, Brian Redman insisted that I prepare his Lola first of all. An English guy came over and became the crew chief finally.

But what broke that situation up was we took Lola T70 and put a 935 engine and gearbox in the car. Problem was we were running out of time. The car was supposed to debut at Le Mans. Well, we got to Le Mans and had never been on the track before, went out there and we couldn’t get any boost. It wasn’t getting to the engine.

The problem was is that the. Framework that supported the intercooler was not sturdy enough. So as the pressure [00:34:00] built up, it opened gaps in the gaskets. And so we started losing boots. So it never did run at Le Mans. And that was the straw that broke the camel’s back as far as me and Cookwood’s racing.

And so I had to go out on my own from there on. So that’s what happened.

Crew Chief Eric: The rest of the history of Gerritsen Enterprises. Is it still around? Does, did it continue on or did you close that chapter too?

Bob Garretson: No, what, what happened to Garrison Enterprises was I had sold my semiconductor business as a company that bought it, wanted me to stay with them and run the business.

Keep it going the way it was or expand whatever happened well i was still racing it was 81 or 82 i guess i still playing around stuff like that and these guys came to me and said look at we don’t like you running around the world doing all this stuff you’re supposed to be running this business i said well business is running i’ve run it the way i’ve run it all along what’s the big problem.[00:35:00]

And he said, well, if you don’t stop, you’re gone. I said, fine. Well, I’m gone because I had a lifestyle and that’s the way I wanted to live. What happened was, was I just said, okay, I’m gone. Take my money and run. And I went over and basically took the English office over and competed with the other companies because the EU had started then so we could supply from England, all the stuff that we used to have to have offices in.

Germany and France. So Garrison Enterprises was functioning. I’d come back three or four times a year or more and find out what’s happening and all those kinds of, well, I came back one trip and the assistant bookkeeper came to me and said, you better look at these things. We don’t have any cash.

Something’s wrong with the money situation. We have to do an investigation, find out that the head bookkeeper was embezzling money because she thought she was a professional bridge player and was gambling on bridge. And then the two brothers that were business partners said, [00:36:00] you know, you’re not here to guys and stuff like that.

Can we sell the business? They had a friend that had a Porsche customer who was a big banker and he wanted to buy the whole. To me having to come up and get us out of debt and all that kind of stuff. I said, you guys sell it. And I left my brother and I kept the building and they paid the rent on it.

When I left, I left my association with Garrison Enterprises. They made it run for a year and then went. So my brother and I sold the building to the Dotson dealership across the way and Garrison Enterprises was no more.

Crew Chief Eric: Knowing what you know now, looking back over your career, your wins, you know, all the people that you’ve met for young, aspiring racers.

That are coming up through the system now. Do you have any advice? Anything you can pass on to them? Words of wisdom? Anything you’d like to share?

Bob Garretson: Well, I think that the young kids today, the drivers are extremely talented, but I don’t think they have a [00:37:00] complete understanding of the mechanics of what’s going on.

And why they do things and why things happen when they do certain things and stuff like that. And I think that’s part of the stuff. I don’t think I have any talent compared to half the guys that I raced against, but I think that I was able to, some cases, I’ll think of them and stuff like that.

Mike Carr: Looking back over the course of your life and career and your racing experience and your success in business and, you know, the people that you’ve met and the interesting life that you’ve had.

Where does racing rank? I’ve

Bob Garretson: made great friends with a lot of people, and some people just unable to make friends with. They, you know, they thought, who’s this punk kid that thinks he’s a race car driver? I, I mean, I admit it, and I’m not the talent that half the guys I race against are, but the thing is that we manage to do what racing’s all about.

We manage to win and do things. So it seems like there’s more ego in things than there used to be. I don’t think that’s [00:38:00] true. I think there’s a, it’s just expressed differently. It

Mike Carr: seems like you got in and then you got out and you drove an epic car.

Bob Garretson: Absolutely.

Mike Carr: You did some amazing things with it. I don’t know how you walked away.

It answers some questions, it leaves more questions.

Crew Chief Eric: But you guys must have some more questions. Sure, Mike does. I don’t want to keep you up all night though, you know.

Mike Carr: I could talk to you for hours. It’s a real pleasure to talk to you. So thank you, sir.

Crew Chief Eric: I have to second Mike’s sentiments there. I mean, I can’t thank you enough for coming on here and sharing your journey into the sports car world, coming up the way you did, and then just gracefully exiting, as you said, at a high point in your career, having that win at Sebringham, the win at Daytona.

And it’s just like. Wow. That’s all I can, all I can keep thinking is, wow, but then you’ve done so many other cool things since then and worked on cool cars and made so many different lifelong friends between the Rahalls and the Redmans and all the other folks that you mentioned. I mean, it’s just, again, thank you.[00:39:00]

Bob, anything else before we let you go? Or Mike, any other questions you want to ask?

Mike Carr: I’m good.

Bob Garretson: Thank you. Well, if you think of anything you want to ask, don’t hesitate. Thank you so much, Bob. Well, you’re very welcome. I enjoyed it myself. Thanks, Bob. Take care.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you in part by the Exotic Car Marketplace.

Founded by BrakeFix guest William Ross, he provides private client services to discreet Ferrari and Porsche buyers as well as sellers. With experience and access to the most desired vehicles in the marketplace, William can source the perfect Porsche or Ferrari you’ve been looking for. To learn more, be sure to check out www.

exoticcarmarketplace. com. Additionally, this episode was supported by the International Motor Racing Research Center in Watkins Glen, who provided the factual data as well as racing results and photographs from their archives, which can be seen in the follow on article alongside this episode. You can learn more about the IMRRC by visiting www.

racingarchives. org.[00:40:00]

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers [00:41:00] fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

None of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
01:29 Bob Garretson’s Early Life and Racing Beginnings
04:12 Career Highlights and Challenges
10:55 Garretson Enterprises and Racing Ventures
14:41 The Iconic Apple Car and Racing Stories
17:38 Reflections on the Porsche 935
19:50 Racing Partnerships and Personal Connections
21:48 Memorable Racing Moments with Bobby Rahal
23:01 Racing Legends and Their Stories
24:22 The Competitive Spirit of the 80s Racing Scene
25:23 Innovations and Technical Insights
30:34 Transitioning from Racing to Business
36:36 Reflecting on a Racing Career
38:29 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

Bonus Content

There’s more to this story…

Some stories are just too good for the main episode… Check out this Behind the Scenes Pit Stop Minisode! Available exclusively on our Patreon.

If you enjoyed this History of Motorsports Series episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. That would help us beat the algorithms and help spread the enthusiasm to others. Subscribe to Break/Fix using your favorite Podcast App:

Consider becoming a Patreon VIP and get behind the scenes content and schwag from the Motoring Podcast Network

Do you like what you've seen, heard and read? - Don't forget, GTM is fueled by volunteers and remains a no-annual-fee organization, but we still need help to pay to keep the lights on... For as little as $2.50/month you can help us keep the momentum going so we can continue to record, write, edit and broadcast your favorite content. Support GTM today! or make a One Time Donation.

Learn More

Historical Records (provided by the IMRRC)

For more information on Bob Garretson and other drivers from the Golden Era of Sports Car Racing, look to the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC) for all sorts of historical data and photographs, like those provided in this article, on all sorts of races and drivers! Check out Bob’s Profile on the IMMRC.

Despite limited starts, Bob’s driving career was punctuated by landmark victories – Sebring in ’78 and Daytona in ’81. But it was his strategic approach to the 1981 World Endurance Championship that cemented his place in motorsports history. Running just six of ten races, Bob focused on reliability and consistency. “You’ve got to finish to win,” he said. And finish he did – every single race.

With support from Porsche and a last-minute airlift from Flying Tiger Airlines, Bob and his crew made it to Brands Hatch for the season finale. They finished second overall, but first among Group 5 entries, clinching the inaugural FIA World Endurance Championship for Drivers. “We kind of got cheated out of the glory,” Bob admitted, referencing the Group C cars that overshadowed their effort. “But we won it fair and square.”

Garretson Enterprises wasn’t just a racing outfit – it was a hub for Silicon Valley’s Porsche faithful. Steve Wozniak brought his 928 in for service. Steve Jobs, ever the skeptic, once asked, “What’s that going to do for me?” when Bob pitched a sponsorship. But Apple’s PR team saw the vision. The result? The iconic rainbow-liveried Apple 935, one of the most memorable race cars of the era.

Bob mentions on this episode, that his Apple 935 is owned (and vintage raced) by comedian and car enthusiast Adam Corolla. Bob continues to work and coach Adam on how to tune and drive this car; and Bob was able to reunite with the Porsche and drive it once again at the 2022 Monterey Historics at Laguna Seca Raceway.

Bob recently reunited with his old 935, now owned by Adam Corolla, for a demonstration lap at Laguna Seca. “I can’t believe I drove that thing competitively” he marveled. “It’s still a beast.” At 89, Bob remains sharp, humble, and deeply connected to the Porsche community. “It’s a different life,” he said. “You’ve got friends no matter where you go in the world.”

Bob Garretson’s story is a testament to the power of persistence, preparation, and passion. He wasn’t a factory driver. He didn’t have deep pockets. But he built a team, a car, and a career that beat the best in the world. And he did it his way.

As Bob put it, “You either teach yourself or you find out somehow what to do.” For a man who never set out to be a champion, he sure left a legacy worthy of one.

Guest Co-Host: Mike Carr

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

And returning with me to co-host this episode is Mike Carr, who some of you might remember from our Randy Lanier episode.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

GT Celebration: Racing for the Love of the Drive

Gran T

June 6, 2023

GT Celebration: Racing for the Love of the Drive

What happens when a lifelong passion for motorsports meets a savvy sense of business and a deep respect for racing heritage? You get GT Celebration – a racing series built not just for speed, but for soul.

In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, host Eric and co-host Charlie Streicher from Max Track Time sit down with Rob Morgan, founder of Morgan Performance Group (MPG), to explore the origins, philosophy, and future of one of North America’s most exciting grassroots racing platforms.

Rob Morgan’s story begins in Arkansas, where his first word was reportedly “car.” Raised in a motorsports family – his father raced motocross before switching to four wheels – Rob grew up trackside, absorbing the culture and thrill of sports car racing. By age 19, he was racing street circuits in New Orleans and jumping between Firestone Firehawk series, NASCAR trucks, and prototype Ferraris. His resume includes a full season in the Ferrari 333 SP and stints in the Craftsman Truck Series, all while earning a marketing degree from the University of Arkansas.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

After stepping away from full-time driving in 2001, Rob launched TrueSpeed in Orange County, California, specializing in air-cooled Porsche sales – before they were cool. The business grew rapidly, expanding into service, race car prep, and eventually trackside support. By 2013, TrueSpeed Motorsports was a full-fledged operation, later sold to Rob’s GM and relocated to Thermal Club.

Rob’s next move? Creating a racing series that gave high-performance cars a second life. “These cars are amazing,” he explains. “There’s no reason they should be put to bed just because they’re not the latest homologation.”

Spotlight

Notes

This Break/Fix podcast episode features Rob Morgan, founder of Morgan Performance Group (MPG) and GT Celebration, discussing his journey from a motorsport-enthused childhood to founding a racing series. Morgan shares insights on his early love for cars, his racing career, and the inception and growth of GT Celebration. He emphasizes the series’ aim to provide a fun, professionally run racing platform for both new and seasoned drivers, featuring multiple classes like GT3, GT4, Cup, Prototype, and M2. Key topics include the series’ structure, class distinctions, BOP (Balance of Performance) approach, race weekend logistics, track selections, and future plans. Co-hosts Crew Chief Eric and Charlie Streicher delve into the unique aspects that set MPG Racing apart from other sanctioning bodies like SRO and IMSA. The discussion also touches on the transition from club to pro racing and the importance of seat time for aspiring drivers.

Tell us about the who/what/when/where of Rob Morgan, how did you get into cars & racing? Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?
What led to the founding of GT Celebration? Why start your own racing series?
What is the program like? Classes of Racing?
Where does GT Celebration race (tracks/schedule, is there a “home track”)
What’s the difference between GT Celebration and SRO World Challenge and IMSA?
What’s next for MPG and GT Celebration? What do the next 5 years look like?

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Unparalleled passion for sports car racing is what GT celebration is all about. Founded by Rob Morgan, president and CEO of Morgan Performance Group or MPG for short, he worked to build this racing series from the ground up, utilizing both experience and passion with one mission. Deliver a unique racing platform for drivers and teams to compete in a safe, adrenaline filled, unforgettable environment.

MPG features dozens of manufacturers and a wide range of race cars that compete in one of four series. And he’s [00:01:00] here tonight to explain how it all works and joining me as co host is Charlie Stryker from Max Track Time. So I want to welcome you both to break fix.

Charlie Streicher: Thank you for having

Rob Morgan: me back on Eric.

Thank you. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Eric, Charlie, Charles, not sure what you go by, but yeah, thank you guys for having me.

Crew Chief Eric: So like all good stories, there’s always a beginning. So Rob, tell us about the who, what, when, and where of you, Rob Morgan, the petrolhead. How did you get into cars? How did you get into racing?

Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?

Rob Morgan: My mom said the first word I ever uttered was car. It’s imprinted in my DNA. Car, motorcycle, anything with wheels. I love cars, love racing, grew up around it. My dad actually started in motocross in the 70s. Ended up blowing out both knees and ended up going to four wheels.

I’ll jump ahead a little bit and say that’s actually when MPG was first founded. Morgan Performance Group is actually what he raced under when he started doing SCCA and uh, M-A-G-T-U and Es Dawson. [00:02:00] So, yeah, so I grew up around it, grew up at the racetrack, a lot of trips in the motor home to the racetrack, and it was just an amazing experience.

Not only did I love the cars. And love everything. I couldn’t wait till I could drive them myself, but it was just fun because that’s what we did as a family as well.

Crew Chief Eric: If I’m not mistaken, I detect a little bit of a Southern accent there. Did you grow up in NASCAR country?

Rob Morgan: Well, I did believe it or not grew up in Arkansas.

So I would definitely say that’s NASCAR country for sure. But I, I didn’t drive in NASCAR till. After a lot of years, sports car. So my dad race sports cars. I grew up racing sports cars. That was always what I wanted to do. Not much road racing going on in Arkansas back when I drove. There wasn’t really Cardi.

In Arkansas, I mean, there was probably a little stuff, but that didn’t interest me at the time. So I didn’t really start driving until 1992. I went to driving school at road Atlanta the month after I graduated high school, and then entered my 1st person, fire, [00:03:00] later, so kind of thrown to the walls, but my dad always had the theory that instead of going from an 80, C.

C. 2 stroke. Might as well go straight to the 2 50. My racing career was in cars was pretty similar. So I went from doing Firestone Firehawk to jumping right into an MCGTO car like a year later. So, yeah, I was racing New Orleans Grand Prix street race. I think it. 19 years old when I went NASCAR racing, it was the same way.

I mean, I’d never driven any ovals, definitely not a short track, which was quite the experience doing it for the first time, but went straight to doing the truck series, did some races with Kevin Duran and David Dollar who ended up being my partner later on. But in 1997, I raced a Ferrari 333 SP for a full season.

And then. About five or six truck races. So I don’t think you can get much different and the cars that you’re driving [00:04:00] prototype pickup truck. So it was fire hose. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned going to school and racing at the same time. That had to be hard because obviously you need to study at some point and all the races are on the weekend.

And if you’re super committed on the big stage, it’s a week long affair for some of these races. And it’s hard to just drop in, arrive and drive and go. I mean, some people do it, you know, they have that talent. They have that ability. Was school the building block for what became MPG? What did you go to school for?

Rob Morgan: My degree is in marketing management from the university of Arkansas. I was lucky enough to have a lot of good pledge brothers that when I was going off racing, they were taking good notes and I could stay fairly up to date with what was going on. But yeah, I mean, we would leave typically. On a Wednesday afternoon, and I would miss Thursday, Friday, for sure.

And then depending on when we got back, sometimes a Monday, but yeah, it was tough, but that was always the deal with my parents. It’s like, okay, you can race, you can follow this dream and do this. But our caveat is you got to get a [00:05:00] degree first. I mean, you’d have to have a degree to keep doing it.

Crew Chief Eric: So if you grew up in the golden era of sports car racing, as we like to call it around here, who were some of your heroes?

Who were some of the people you were looking up to during those times?

Rob Morgan: I always love John Paul, Jr. The transition from, let’s say, the 935 to the prototypes was always just incredibly interesting to me. And I just thought the prototypes were may came out the March and 962 and some of these other cars were just, I mean, they look like spaceships to me.

And then to go to walk and squint and before the bus stop, watching 962 go down the back straight away and the little whistle that it does when you shift the gear. I mean, it would just give me goosebumps.

Charlie Streicher: Yeah, sounds like you have a bit of a driving background there. And so how did you end up making the transition from being a driver to starting a series

Rob Morgan: back in 2001 when I stopped driving and the craftsman truck series full time, I started a company in Orange County, California called true speed.

True speed when I started, it was [00:06:00] basically just pre own sales of specifically air cool courses and it was kind of before they were cool. I mean, everybody sells them and they’re worth a ton of money now, but I started down 2001, focusing on the 9, 9, 3, specifically turned into quite a business. The euro was so strong to the dollar 06 to 08.

God, I was selling 30 cars a month to Germany. We were selling the car so fast. I started my own service department mainly for our own cars, which turned into clients, which turned into getting a 27, 000 square foot facility. And then I was like, well, I’m doing sales and service to street cars, let’s do race cars.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a logical conclusion.

Rob Morgan: Yeah, especially it’s an opportunity. Maybe get back in the seat. Right? So, I started that for North America is in Santa Ana, which was close to where I was. Went and met with those guys at the time, the [00:07:00] program I wanted to put together was just basically buy and portion cup cars, refurbishing them through portion motorsport, North America.

So they get the seal of approval and, you know, you’re buying a good car at the time. He’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ll do that. Then they said, well, what we’d really like you to do is start a premier track side service for cup car owners. Southern California, so that’s kind of what started true speed motorsports, which is still around sold it to my GM back in 2013, they’re located out at the thermal racetrack now.

But, yeah, so I actually went from driving to team owner to sponsor to actually in 2017 did work for world challenge. I was a class manager. Work for Greg Gill and those guys. And from there, and just, I saw an opportunity, it started with the GT three cars, continue to grow it today.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve had Greg Gill and a lot of other people on the show.

So I’m really kind of interested to compare and contrast GT celebration and some of the other classes [00:08:00] against your experience, obviously in IMSA, but also in world challenge. So what facilitated starting up a whole nother sanctioning body of racing?

Rob Morgan: You know what? It’s a great question and it, and it was very calculated.

So with my experience with True Speed bought and sold a lot of three cars of course, but we ended up doing a lot of race cars. I mean, I bought and sold probably a hundred race cars during that period. And then when I went to work for World Challenge, I noticed that, okay, the new generation of the GT three R comes out the dot two.

Well, to race and pro racing, you got to have the latest and greatest to compete and to win. And so these. 1 cars are still absolutely amazing cars. There’s no reason they should be put to bed. And so they were ended up in gentlemen, racers hands. With the growth of social media and everything else, I see all these cars.

And I’m not taking anything away from NASA or SCCA club racing, but when you got a [00:09:00] $400,000 GT three R racing against or on the track with a Mazda Miata, I mean, the right front corner of the GT three R costs what the, the Miata costs. So I put myself in those. If I were to be able to be in a position to buy one of those cars.

Would I not want to race against light cars? So that’s kind of where the concept came from and providing them a fun and that’s the key word of fun. Because none of these guys have to do it a fun, but professionally run series where these guys, because these guys are obviously all very successful. Well, to do like, things structured and so that’s basically where the idea came from was given these.

And I used to always say this when I was starting it, the guy you’re racing against knows what the car costs. The guys you’re racing against knows what it costs to get the car prep to get to the racetrack. And most importantly, he knows what it costs to fix it. And our guys, a lot of them, they could be running them.

So they could be running SRO. They definitely got the funding and the ability and some of them, like I say, some of [00:10:00] them do have the ability, but just don’t want the hassle.

Charlie Streicher: You know, you mentioned professionally run. So a thing that I was interested to hear about, how do you guys handle the homologation and the BOP?

Do you stick pretty close to how it was back in this series that they were running before? Or do you have your own kind of setup of rules?

Rob Morgan: Nick Lester is obviously my partner. It was a porcumiter for, for many years in Honda and GM. He is the technical side of things, but I’m, I’m technical enough to, to understand what we need to do to make it fine.

Right? And so there’s no way you’re gonna B-O-P-A-A 2012 Audi R eight GT three to a dot two, GT three R. So, what my idea was, and Nick’s drawn the line in the sand where these cars are divided, but we have a red and a yellow. So there’s a split there just because of the generation of the car, the 2012 are a.

Is running against the 997 GT3R, which that alone makes it a [00:11:00] lot easier. And it’s obviously for all models. I’m just using the Porsche and Audi just because I’m more familiar. But then we also, we have this saying, we want to make tech fun again. We know we have to manage and balance these cars somehow, because they were never meant to be run uncorked.

I mean, if you run a GT3R against an uncorked Evo Lamborghini. It would be a joke, so we have to do something. But 1 thing we do is we kind of start look at what SRO and answer doing as far as baseline. We don’t dive deep into the details. What we do is we do a way a minimum ride height and restrictors.

And that’s it.

Charlie Streicher: Allegation question was always the one that was interesting to me. Cause I don’t, you know, like for the P3 car, for example, if you’re testing, you got to move the camera back from where it’s homologated to B& M so that you can actually see the driver’s hands and whatnot, and then move it back to the race, you’ll get a safety infraction.

Have you relaxed any of those [00:12:00] rules specifically around the cars to allow people to Service the car that they want to have, I don’t want to say it’s

Rob Morgan: run what you brought. I mean, it’s definitely an LMP 3 homologated car, preferably 1st generation. We will allow the new ones, but we’re also letting the Orica, the old LNPC open cockpit cars run with us.

So that’s our prototype class. And then we have a prototype light, which is for revolutions, radicals and stuff like that. What I said earlier, let’s make tech fun again. We’re not here to make people jump through hoops for no reason. Quite frankly, as far as like, you mentioned the cameras. I mean, yeah, we want to forward facing camera.

We would love a rear facing camera just because if things do happen, but no, we’re not going to get into the minute details. 1 thing I’ve always said is this is going to morph into whatever it morphs into. Some of that stuff may be needed down the road. We may have to get a little more strict and we may have to change things and which is fine.

But if it’s for the betterment of the sport [00:13:00] and of the series, we’re okay with it. If it’s just do it to do it to say, we can do it. No, that’s not how we do things.

Charlie Streicher: You know, with a lot of these cars, you know, recently out of homologation, they were running on a spec tire, kind of strict rules. Do you guys have an open tire rule or how do you guys manage that?

We’re

Rob Morgan: sponsored by Pirelli. Couldn’t do it without them. They take really good care of us and quite frankly, the early days went to a lot of races and supported us when they shouldn’t have. Just renewed with them for another few more years. The GT Celebration, Cup Celebration, M2 Celebration, all run on the Pirellis.

Pirellis. 1 thing we’ve noticed with the LMP cars is a lot of those guys don’t like running the Pirelli’s on them for whatever reason. Pirelli claims that, and I’m sure the right set up needs to be drastically different from running on a Michelin, but we just don’t want that to be a hiccup. So our prototype class, and then also to with the revolutions and the radicals has a tire for it, but it’s in Europe.

And so we’d have to bring them all [00:14:00] over here. So, to try to motivate people to come over and try us out in the class, we just felt it was best to leave that open and a ratio and everybody really North America, but in Europe was nice enough to allow us to do that. Which they didn’t have to, so we really appreciate them doing that.

At the end of the day, they succeed if we succeed. They looked at the bigger picture, and even though they may not agree with our, where our mindset is, they allowed us to do it, which was very nice of them. If somebody’s cheating at this level, it’s like, there’s no reason for you to be there. But it’s more about having fun.

But we also take the liberty, as well as, we want it to be fun and exciting for the guys. We don’t want. An Andy Wilsock, a Brent Martini to just lap the field, which they can do sometimes, because those are two guys that can definitely race in the upper leagues. But the guys that are maybe not as experienced, have good cars, putting the time in, go to the races.

[00:15:00] We may help them out, help them with restrictor, help them with weight. And it’s mainly just to keep it more exciting for them. We want them to come back. I’m not saying we’re going to let them go 30 miles an hour faster down the straightaway. That’s not what we’re trying to do, but it’s our goal to have the whole field come by within a legitimate amount of time and not the winner’s already in pit lane and the last place guy is crossing the finish line.

Crew Chief Eric: So Charlie segued right into talking about. The logistics of the program itself. So let’s unpack that a little bit more and talk about how the MPG series is broken down. There’s obviously four different classes in there, but you mentioned even within your GT three class, you split between a red and a yellow.

You’re talking multi class in the same session, or is there a run group specifically for red and one for yellow, or how does this all break down? How does a day of racing play out?

Rob Morgan: What we did at our last event, Dakota is kind of a prelim of what we’re going to be doing this year. 1 thing we did, we’ve noticed Nick and [00:16:00] Kelly and I is for this series to grow.

You got to have a different product. You can’t just have 1 product running on the track. I mean, you’re limited as to how much that can grow. So we realize. Over the last few years that having our own product, developing our own product, controlling our own weekends is key to grow in this and making it successful.

Let’s use celebration because that’s at this point now, it’s just a class within MPG. So celebration is GT 3 cars, red and yellow GT 4. And we’re considering now with all the new GT 4 cars coming out, eventually splitting those as well. 1st generation Afton Martin sure as hell can’t keep up with the new GT 4 Cayman.

There’s just no way. I think that’s down the road, but we can see that coming. And then what we’ve done the last 3 years, it will run. When we do have prototypes, we’ve run the prototypes with the GT cars. We’ve moved on from that, and [00:17:00] now we’re going to have a prototype celebration class, a cup celebration class.

Some events we’re going to do into celebration, the BMW 2. so that’s mainly West Coast. A typical Friday is 340 minute sessions. Saturday Sunday is the same schedule, which is a 30 minute practice 20 minute qualifying and then a 40 minute long race. With the prototypes, it’s a little different because a lot of those drivers also have pro coaches like Colin Braun and Matt Bell and some of these other guys.

So we want to find a way to incorporate those guys into coming to some events with their drivers that they coach. So, Saturday event for the prototype will be a 50, 60 minute Enduro. The gentleman will qualify it. The pro will start it. But the thing is, the pros got to bring the car back in one piece for the gentleman driver.

So that’s why we did that, because you put the pros in at the end of the race, might not have all the cars on Sunday.

Charlie Streicher: You partially answered my question. I was going to [00:18:00] ask if you guys were ever considering doing something like an Enduro format. Are you guys ever looking at doing any sort of special events where you run along with another series or something like, you know, like F4, F3 will go and run with any car at a time or something like that.

Is that on the radar at all?

Rob Morgan: A little bit, I mean, our

Charlie Streicher: our

Rob Morgan: road

Charlie Streicher: Atlanta

Rob Morgan: event is with formula drift and so it has been for the last 3 years and it’s actually an incredible weekend. I mean, they’ll bring in 30 to 50, 000 spectators for that event. You go through the festival area road Atlanta before you come back down the hill.

I mean, they’ve got 10 set up. The drivers just love it. Because they actually feel like somebody is there to watch them. And then after the race, a lot of the fans come down to our paddock and look at the cars and get exposed to it. Something they don’t see every day. So we’ve done that a little bit. We tried to do an event at Sebring a few years ago, the week before the 12 hour.

It was with MSAL and P3 and we were going to be a support event. We couldn’t get the traction. Kind of find out. We just think with IGT and PCA [00:19:00] that’s going there that time of year. It’s just. Seabirds overdone, but, yeah, we’ve had some opportunities to go and do that. I mean, we run with the use that guys Porsche sprint challenge from time to time really like working with those guys.

Great group of guys. But as far as big time events, probably not. And here’s why it’s because, like I said earlier, a lot of our guys. Most of ’em for that matter, could, like I say, do SA or SRO, but they choose to run with us because it’s, you don’t have the jacked up hotel prices, you don’t have all this crazy security.

They go, they have fun, they race against their buddies and it, it’s just a low key weekend, and that’s what they enjoy.

Crew Chief Eric: All of this is really exciting. And so I like the fact that you’re giving the opportunity for some of these older cars to still come out and play and folks to be able to utilize the investment that they’ve made in these cars.

So my question is how old is too old? You know, you mentioned driving. The trucks and then a 333 [00:20:00] SP, if somebody was willing to ensure something like a 333 SP to come out and run and prototype, is that allowed? Or is there like a minimum age that these cars need to hit to be allowed to run in the, in the different series?

Rob Morgan: No, it has to fit within that window with that type of car, that type of class. With the prototype edition, we’ve been asked, well, can we do Daytona prototypes? Well, at the end of the day, we have to be able to police it. And we also don’t want it to look like a run. What you brought, we want the cars to look similar, be similar, have similar performance, and that’s where I was talking about.

If we got to split classes up based on the age of the car, then we’ll do that. I mean, we all need car count, right? But at the same time, you got to stick to what the series was founded on and what’s bringing the customers there and why they’re interested. I mean, we’re getting a lot of LMP 3 interest from guys that have been doing HSR and some of these other classes because they’re taking their LMP 3 cars to these events, but they’re classified with.[00:21:00]

LMP two and LMP one. I mean, they’ve gotta beat an LMP one, Audi to . You know, the podium, you’ve gotta draw the line somewhere. It’s gotta fit into that mold.

Crew Chief Eric: And the GT classes obviously make sense. GT three, GT four, like you said, some of the older GT two cars by today’s standards are probably as fast as a GT three car, even though there were class ups.

So I’m sure you guys make exceptions for all that. But I’m really curious about the cup class. Is that specifically relegated to Porsches or do you have like M four competition in there, maybe some S fours, other vehicles like that, that may be competed in world challenge back in the day, what qualifies for cup classing?

Rob Morgan: I’m going to use next terminology. It’s as delivered from Porsche. However, we don’t have any affiliation with portion motorsport North America. And I don’t want this to sound bad, but quite frankly, don’t want to. And the reason I say that is because there are so many cars that have had engines rebuilt [00:22:00] by autometrics out of South Carolina, not rebuilt by portion motorsport.

Well, that car that’s had an engine rebuilt by Gordon and those guys can’t run in a Porsche sanctioned event. And to answer your question, we’re going to go from a 997. 2 to a 992 cup is our window, but the engine doesn’t have to be sealed by Porsche. The gearbox doesn’t have to be sealed by Porsche. It’s given these guys another place to go run.

And some of the mindset behind it was once autometric started racing with us pretty much full time. They’ve got a very large contingency that they take to these bigger events. Road America, for example, there would be 70 cars.

And it’s gotten to be pretty physical. It’s not quality track time, which is what we provide and what we pride ourselves on. It’s not only a lot, but quality. I mean, the most part of me, you want to put on Laguna [00:23:00] 25 to 30. I’m not going to sell a 40 car field at Laguna. I mean, we’re just not going to do that because it starts taking away from the product.

What we’re doing is giving these guys another option because if you have a 991. 1, pretty much the only place you can race it is NASA or some other type of PCA, POC, but just giving them another place to go look at, to go run the car.

Crew Chief Eric: Going back to the race weekend, you mentioned, you know, when you partner with, let’s say formula drift, you know, you have tens of thousands of spectators.

What’s it like for a spectator coming to an MPG weekend? Are there spectator fees? Are the races televised? Like, what would somebody expect going there for the 1st time?

Rob Morgan: So we are starting to get traction. I mean, like I say, we’re going into our 4th year. We do have people that either look at our website or follow the tracks website that we’re going to see that we’re coming and we get quite a few emails about.

What the costs are, but no, we don’t charge a gate fee. The track may, it’s something [00:24:00] like the Formula Drift. They don’t charge a gate fee to get into our paddock. We’re in the old paddock outside the front straight. But most all of our events are come hang out. Check it out. Did have an incident. We were at VAR with USAC.

The track was getting so many people coming out and wanted to see it that the track started charging. Of course, USAC and us, we didn’t see a penny of that, but we don’t care to. And then as far as the TV, I mean, we would love the live stream. It’s not as much for sponsors, which we do have some. Also, we’re going to be announcing some new ones, some pretty nice ones actually come in the next few weeks, but it’s mainly for these guys to say, hey, tell their buddies.

I’m going to race my car this weekend. Check it out on this YouTube channel or what have you. It’s mainly just another avenue to build interest and keep this thing going.

Charlie Streicher: Sounds like the big impetus behind a lot of this is to give guys a fun place and experiential place to race. Is there any sort of hospitality or anything provided by the series to kind of elevate [00:25:00] that?

Rob Morgan: We have a very nice 53 foot transporter that we take to the events. One side is hospitality, the other side is for tech. We always have a, uh, Either a Friday night or a Saturday night beer and wine party with food and some races we barbecue for everybody. Like, because the formula drift thing we run during the day and then they run at night what we’ll do.

I think it’s Saturday night. We do it. There is we’ll do a barbecue have fun, have some drinks and then everybody will go in the golf cart or whatever and go over the formula drift thing. But we’re not far long enough yet to have a typical Ferrari challenge or a career cup type of hospitality.

Definitely looked at it. Yeah. And it’s definitely something that’s interesting. It’s a whole nother event in itself. We’re a small organization. It’s full time. It’s me, Nick and Mallory Kelly pops in every now and then. But yeah, we’re a small organization and we’ve got a business office, but it’s for the most part, we’re doing what we can do to keep this thing rolling between really the [00:26:00] 3 or 4 of us.

Charlie Streicher: I host test events where I offer catering and all that stuff, and I hear you 100%. The second you add hospitality in, it’s a whole other level of community for sure.

Rob Morgan: It is, and it’s nice, and we would all love to do it. It’s just, you’ve got to have somebody full time just taking care of that.

Charlie Streicher: And that actually raised another interesting question.

So it looks like you’ve got some really cool tracks here lined up. I’m seeing Apex Motor Club, you’ve got Spring Mountain, you’ve got Sonoma, Utah, which I love that facility. And it looks like I saw Flat Rock, I think, somewhere on there. Yeah. What goes behind your track selection there?

Rob Morgan: Fly Rock’s interesting.

I’ll get into the other ones as well, but we’ve been talking about our Road Atlanta event. At Road Atlanta, we’re also with Global Time Attack and we see this guy out there running his Cayman GT4 and we walked over to him and said, hey, why don’t you come race with us? And he goes, well, I’ve never done wheel to wheel.

And then we kind of Kelly talked to him a little bit and understood what his experience was. And we said, well, why don’t you come around with us? He’s like, okay. And actually brought 1 of his buddies to, and it was rusty Bill, who [00:27:00] is actually the guy that’s doing the track. We knew that track was coming quite a few years ago, actually.

But, yeah, that’s how that came about. Rusty’s been a good supporter of ours, and I think it’s going to be an amazing facility. I think they’re doing it the right way. Little concern. They’re having supply chain issues and some weather issues. So I hope that doesn’t. Throw a kink in it, but we’re excited about it.

Everything else is destination at the end of the year. We put out a questionnaire. Where would you like to go? I mean, some of the places you’re just, you got to go to. Right? I mean, you got to go to Laguna and red America, which we’re not going to either this year, but there’s stories behind that. But, yeah, there’s just places you got to go to.

We got a lot of feedback and people wanting to go to Watkins Glen. So we’re going there. Obviously, people love, so we’re going to go back there. Laguna, which is my favorite track with their repaid and rents for we quite frankly, couldn’t get a date because we have to run unlimited sound. And with the repaid, they’re given all those unlimited [00:28:00] sound dates to IndyCar teams to test there.

We got put on the side burner with. Elkhart, we just couldn’t get a date. There were dates there that we could nab, but they didn’t make sense with what we already had in place. But the big thing is we listen to our customers, see where the teams are that run with us and try to maximize that.

Crew Chief Eric: So I was scribbling down names cause you’ve been.

Name dropping tracks left and right, you know, between road American road, Elena and the Glen and Coda and Laguna and Sebring and BIR and flat rock and a spring mountain. And I mean, the list goes on and on. Is there a track that you call home?

Rob Morgan: I would say Laguna a couple of years ago, we ran that twice. A lot of the teams like true speed and some of these other flying lizard used to run with us a lot because we were specifically just West Coast the 1st year.

So we got a lot of West Coast support. So I would say Laguna. I love Sonoma. We struggled there a little bit the attraction and I don’t know why and they’re quite frankly, 1 of the best tracks to work with. But yeah, I would definitely say Laguna.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s talk [00:29:00] about the key differentiators between the MPG racing series, which includes GT celebration, cup celebration, prototype M2, et cetera, versus SRO world challenge and IMSA.

What really sets you apart from those other organizations?

Rob Morgan: I know this sounds kind of cliche ish, but we want it to be fun when Greg Gill and I work together. I always told him, especially growing up around it. I saw it. The backbone of sports car racing was built on the gentleman racer. And they’re the ones that provide these guys, the opportunities field, the cars.

I mean, quite frankly, the manufacturers come in there sometimes and screw that up. The gentleman racer and having fun and go by boat. And go by an airplane, you can just travel. So what we want to do is provide a place that it has structure. We don’t want to be the level of structure of or and so our guys could do that.

I mean, they definitely could. They have the funding and the ability, but they just don’t want to. [00:30:00] Again, I’m not taking anything away from club racing, but they don’t wanna necessarily run club racing anymore. They’ve all done it ’cause they’ve had to get the experience somewhere. We’re between that club level racing and that.

S-A-S-R-O usac, we feel there’s a real gap there that needs to be filled and that’s what we’re trying to provide. Another thing we pride ourselves on is. Kelly Collins, myself and Nick are all owners of the series. We consider ourselves and this is another thing that series don’t typically have the ability that we’re nimble.

I mean, if something comes up, something needs to be decided, whether it’s even changing the schedule of the weekend, 3 of us will sit down in a room, talk about it. And if we feel like we’re not all on the same page, we’ll have a vote majority wins, but we’ll make a decision quick and easy. I mean, it wrote Atlanta this year, whether it looked iffy for the afternoon race.

So we swapped the schedule around, talked to the drivers about it. They were all cool and made qualifying a [00:31:00] race. We ended up saving a race. So you, the other, the guys are going to be out there in a rain race. And at this level, I don’t think many of them would have gone out, quite frankly. It’s

Crew Chief Eric: a great service.

And I think a lot of us see that as well, but it also gives people stepping stones. So you’re not jumping straight out of a spec Miata. Into IMSA, you can work your way up through the system if you want to. I mean, if you have the ability and the talent and the funding to jump from one to the other by all means, but this is a great way to make your way through the system, you know, with a stop in GT celebration or an M2 or whatever it might be with your organization.

So I think this is a really great thing.

Rob Morgan: Thank you. And I mean, uh, you look at a guy like. Let’s say Jason Harward. He ran his 1st race with us. He’s zealous. Motorsport runs in GT America and SRO young guy. Very successful ran actually his 1st semi pro race with us. I knew we weren’t going to keep a guy like Jason in the paddock.

I mean, he’s young fit. Well, to do, we knew it was going to move up, but yeah, [00:32:00] exactly what you said. We knew we could provide a place for him to run and gain experience and go on to the next level. But let’s look at a guy like Jim Slavik or Kevin Westcott older guys per se, they’ve got ability. They can win races, but they have no desire.

To go run in SRO, and I’m sure I’ve had plenty of opportunities, teams beating them up and coming to do events, but it’s not in their wheelhouse and what they’re interested in doing.

Crew Chief Eric: That makes a very valid point. Not only can you move up the ladder, you can come back down too. So if you feel like, you know, the big stage is too big and you want something a little bit more relaxed, you don’t have to go all the way back down to, you know, SCCA if you don’t want to, that you have this stop gap in between, which is great.

But it begs another question because you see it in IMSA and SRO, which is the classification of drivers. So do you guys utilize a metric or a system like a gold, silver, or bronze qualification for drivers or as drivers, just drivers, the car BOP is what it is.

Rob Morgan: Let’s start with [00:33:00] GT celebration, which was the original series and kind of what sparked all this.

GT celebration was founded on bronze drivers and below. What’s crazy is you look at a guy like Andy Pilgrim, you’re technically a bronze, but there’s no way Andy Pilgrim is a bronco. It’s founded on bronze drivers and below, especially in the GT 3 class GT 4, we’ve kind of let some of the, like, Andy’s and some of these other guys come in.

Johnny O’Connell is probably a bronze. James Sopranos is bronze. You get those guys in there and some of the other drivers like it. Hey, I raced against Johnny O’Connell. I raced against Andy Pilgrim, but then. Other guys don’t like it because it’s taking podium spots away from so it’s happy balance. And like I say, as far as BOP and what we do, we really, really try to keep it bronze and below.

If we do have a true silver that wants to come, we’ve crossed that a couple of times. We run them an exhibition. We just put an exhibition class on and they don’t care. Those guys that are at that level aren’t coming to win [00:34:00] trophies. They just want to get the track experience or test or whatever. And they typically don’t care.

But yes, prototypes a little different. I mean, we’ll let pros, we’ll let goals, we’ll let whoever because we want to help motivate. Them to bring the guys that they coach, they’re gentlemen drivers. And the reason, quite frankly, we don’t do an enduro with the 3 cars is they’re just so expensive to operate.

They’re expensive to fix. 1 of those guys don’t want anybody else in their car unless it’s their process and a data lab or something like that. They don’t necessarily want to pay for driver damage. Have a race from Joel Miller getting in the car. Not that Joel would hurt a car, but getting in the car and having something happen.

So where are the prototypes are a lot more cost effective to run.

Crew Chief Eric: Since we’re still sort of talking about differentiators between the MPG series, SRO and MCI, et cetera, as we spent a lot of time last year with world challenge and following them around and being part of the press corps and things like that.

So you kind of learned the inner workings of the series as well. And one of the things that just. Baffled [00:35:00] me outside of not being totally thrilled with balance of power as a concept in general was the way they conducted the restarts of their races. So they do tend to follow a lot of the rules from the European side of SRO, which is interesting into itself.

And I see how IMSA does things, right? If there’s a yellow condition, people check up. And then when it goes green, everybody goes green again. You’re kind of where you are behind the pace card. There’s not this, Oh, we’re going to take a lap and catch up and reorganize and all this kind of stuff. So I saw a lot of fire drills happening in the other series.

So I’m wondering how do you guys handle caution situations and the restart of a race? Cause you know, event after event, it was an interesting debate as how they were going to handle that.

Rob Morgan: At our level. Luckily, it hasn’t been as much of an issue. A gentleman club racing is much different than top level pro racing.

Definitely understand what you’re saying. Been there, done that, wrote the book, but with us, quite frankly, it hasn’t been much of an issue, but my experience with the world challenge, I [00:36:00] was in race control quite a few times and voiced my opinion of what should be done. And I wasn’t listening to, but I know where you’re coming from and I know what you’re saying, but.

If we see that there could be an issue, because we know our group, we know who’s running with us. If we got a slower GT 4 guy between 2 GT 3 guys that we’ve been watching, they’re going to end up racing each other for position at the end. I’ll notify Casey or Kelly will, because we’re watching what’s going on with everybody.

And we’ll say, hey, will you talk to the guys on pit lane and just see if so and so will give so and so a wave bye. And at that point, it’s up to the, uh, the driver, it’s purely for safety and for equipment and they don’t have to. It’s just a question, but we do as much as we can. And with Kelly and myself being racers, we see what’s going on.

We see what’s transpiring. We’re paying attention. And so we try to avoid that stuff as much as we can been lucky so far as car count increases. Those incidents are going to increase for sure, and SRO definitely has a lot of cars. [00:37:00] So that’s going to be an issue. And then we just do what we can to manage it.

And then not to say that that’s an issue, but hopefully someday we get enough cars that we really got to start paying attention

Crew Chief Eric: to that. It becomes a good thing, right? When you get to that point. Which is actually a great segue into our penultimate question here, which is what’s next for MPG and GT celebration?

What’s the next five years look like what’s on the horizon?

Rob Morgan: Verbally agreed. We’re going to have a fuel sponsor. Sunoco is going to be our fuel sponsor. And then Ironclad has always been a, uh, product sponsor buyers and they were. Team sponsor when I had true speed, but they’re big supporters, they did a lot of activation.

They really enjoyed that. They’ve got a new company that bottom out that’s progressing, which is always a good thing for us. When I had this concept and I started it, it was always the intention to grow it into other classes and other. I don’t want to say serious, but additional classes and so now that we’ve [00:38:00] made that step, and this is our 1st full year of controlling all the race weekends ourselves, controlling our own content, it’s going out there and perfecting the product, making it a destination place where people do want to come listening to the driver team owners, what they’re looking for as a place to go race and take their customers.

I think our base is now built and what you see is what we’re going to have for the next 5 years. We’ve got one other exciting thing going that maybe one event this year, we thought it was going to be three, but I think it’s going to turn a lot of heads if it comes together, it’s going to be pretty cool and that would be a VAR.

But, but yeah, it’s just perfecting the product and getting people to come to the racetrack and try us out and I don’t want to sound like I’ve got a big head or anything, but once they do come try the series out, they love it. I mean, the guys love it. Of course, you’re going to have a few here and there that.

Didn’t like this or didn’t like that, but nobody’s perfect. But I mean, it’s a lot of track time. It’s good track time. It’s well [00:39:00] run. And like you said earlier, we got a good tracks.

Crew Chief Eric: So since we’re talking about futures, let’s just take one more quick look down the past. So Rob, if you could. Give some advice to aspiring racers, folks that may be looking to get out of SCCA and NASA and whatever.

And as you look back over your career, maybe some do’s and don’ts for these younger drivers, as they’re coming up through the system, you know, any words of wisdom,

Rob Morgan: it’s all about seat time. If you can get in a Mazda Miata and go drive it all day, Saturday and Sunday, go do it. It’s all about seat time, perfecting your craft.

One of the things. I always used to get asked from, especially when I was driving and NASCAR was who do you think the best driver is in the world? And my answer was always he’s sitting on his couch at home. They look at me like, what do you mean? I said, this sport is not like a stick and ball sport where you can just have the talent and make it.

And that’s where you got to have the funding and the resources to get that shot, to get out there and do it. As much as anything advice [00:40:00] would be is just don’t give up. If you can’t afford to, to necessarily drive, help out on the team, just have that mindset and never give up. And any opportunity you can get seat time, no matter what it is, hop in it.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, with that Rob, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t covered thus far?

Rob Morgan: Touched on a little bit earlier, just Corelli and Orazio and Bob at Frisbee. And like I say, those guys, they’ve stuck it, stuck it out with us. And I cannot thank them enough. And like I mentioned earlier to went to quite a few races where they had no business being there.

I know they lost money. Really appreciate them and those guys sticking with us. Been a growth for us and everybody at MPG and GTC. We’ve been lucky enough to have a few teams that have really supported us and what we’re doing. And Chicago performance with Al has been a great supporter with his driver, Michael.

Speed Club. With Rex and Paul and true speed, of course, my old team and autometrics [00:41:00] is really coming on board and supporting us. And quite frankly, and changing a lot of their program around to be centered around us. So it’s exciting stuff for us. And we just continue that to grow, but couldn’t do it without guys like Alex and Gordon and Paul and Rex and Tyler and the list goes on.

But those guys have been really supportive of what we’re doing. And we, we really appreciate it. Quite frankly, our whole team, just the dedication from Chris and Brock, our logistics guys. I mean, they’re making trips daily. Chris is rebuilding all of our scale pad equipment, reorganizing the tractor trailer truck, and Brock doing all the shuttling.

I mean, it just takes a team effort. Chris Lester, Nick’s son, does a lot of our financial forecasting. Pam, back in Arkansas, does all of our business side of things, and sure as hell couldn’t do it without her. And of course, Mallory, I mean, Mallory has been a godsend, definitely couldn’t do it without her.

Um, great group of people. We get along really well, but when we get to the racetrack, we take care of business, but at the same time, have a good time.

Crew Chief Eric: Where racing, [00:42:00] fun, and camaraderie come together. Racing that’s been designed by enthusiasts. For enthusiasts, that’s the Morgan performance group motto to learn more about GT celebration and the other programs in the MPG series and how you can become part of them.

Be sure to check out www. mpg racing. com or follow them on social at race MPG on Instagram. At Morgan performance group on Facebook and at GT celebration, 3529 on YouTube. So with that, I cannot thank you guys enough for coming on the show, especially Rob for coming on and sharing the newest, hottest racing sanctioning body that’s out there right now.

You know, personal favorite for me, sports car racing. So this is great to see more cars out there, especially these older ones back on the track. Giving them a second life and opportunity for all these drivers to get out there. And thanks to Charlie for coming on the show and co hosting with me and kind of digging deeper into this story.

So thank you both for doing this. No,

Rob Morgan: thank you guys for having me. Uh, really appreciate it. [00:43:00] And I’m glad you guys are behind what we’re doing and believe in it. So thank you very much,

Charlie Streicher: Eric. Thank you for having me back out and Rob. Thank you for sharing the story. This sounds like a really cool series. I think the idea behind creating a fun environment for bronze is to bring this recently out of homologation cars.

Sounds like a great value.

Rob Morgan: Thank you. We believe in it. We’re going to keep charging forward.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees [00:44:00] organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newtons, gummy bears, and Monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Founding of GT Celebration
01:20 Rob Morgan’s Early Life and Racing Beginnings
02:49 Transition to Professional Racing
05:43 Starting True Speed and Business Ventures
08:03 Creating GT Celebration Series
10:04 Technical Aspects and Car Classes
15:27 Race Weekend Structure and Logistics
23:29 Spectator Experience and Future Plans
23:43 Event Costs and Gate Fees
24:50 Hospitality and Community Building
26:16 Track Selection and Challenges
28:59 Series Differentiators and Philosophy
32:58 Driver Classifications and BOP
35:41 Handling Caution Situations
37:12 Future Plans and Growth
39:08 Advice for Aspiring Racers
40:13 Shoutouts and Acknowledgements
41:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Bonus Content

There’s more to this story…

Some stories are just too good for the main episode… Check out this Behind the Scenes Pit Stop Minisode! Available exclusively on our Patreon.

Learn More

”Where racing, fun and camaraderie come together” – Racing that’s been designed by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts … that’s the Morgan Performance Group motto.

To learn more about GT Celebration (and the other programs in the series) and how you can become a part of them, be sure to check out www.mpg-racing.com or follow them on social @racempg on instagram, @MorganPerformanceGroup on facebook and @gtcelebration3529 on Youtube

GT Celebration was born from a simple idea: give gentleman drivers a place to race their GT3 and GT4 machines against similar cars, without the pressure and politics of pro racing. “We want to make tech fun again,” Rob says. That means simplified rules, thoughtful class splits (Red and Yellow groups for different GT3 generations), and a focus on fun over formality.

The series also includes Cup Celebration (for Porsche Cup cars), Prototype Celebration (LMP3 and open-cockpit Oricas), and Prototype Light (Radicals, Revolutions, and similar). While Pirelli is the tire sponsor for most classes, the prototype categories enjoy an open tire rule to encourage participation.

Hospitality, Camaraderie, and the Spirit of the Weekend

MPG events are designed to be low-key, high-quality, and community-driven. With a 53-foot hospitality trailer, beer-and-wine socials, and occasional barbecues, the vibe is more “track family” than “corporate paddock.” “We’re not trying to be Ferrari Challenge,” Rob says. “We’re trying to be the best version of ourselves.”

The series also embraces flexibility. For example, in prototype Enduros, pro coaches like Colin Braun or Matt Bell start the race, but must return the car intact for the gentleman driver to finish. It’s a clever way to blend mentorship with competition.

GT Celebration’s calendar reads like a motorsports bucket list: Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, Sonoma, Spring Mountain, and the upcoming Flat Rock Motorsports Park in Tennessee. Track selection is driven by driver feedback, regional team density, and the desire to offer destination-worthy weekends.

Whether it’s a 997.2 Cup car with a rebuilt engine or a first-gen LMP3, MPG offers a home for machines that still have plenty of life – and plenty of stories to tell. “We’re not run-what-you-brung,” Rob clarifies. “But we’re also not going to make you jump through hoops just to race.”

GT Celebration is more than a series. It’s a sanctuary for racers who value the drive, the people, and the legacy of motorsports. And as Rob Morgan puts it, “We’re just getting started.”

Guest Co-Host: Charlie Streicher

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

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Mario Andretti: The Master of All Terrains

William Ross

May 23, 2023

Mario Andretti: The Master of All Terrains

Few names in motorsport evoke the same reverence as Mario Andretti. From humble beginnings in Italy to conquering the world’s most prestigious racing circuits, Andretti’s story is one of grit, adaptability, and relentless pursuit of excellence. In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, co-hosts Crew Chief Eric and William Ross sit down with the racing legend to explore the winding road that led him to victory in the Daytona 500, the Indy 500, and the Formula One World Championship – a trifecta unmatched in motorsports history.

Andretti’s passion for racing was ignited at age 14, watching Alberto Ascari tear through Monza. A year later, his family emigrated to Nazareth, Pennsylvania. Despite the language barrier, Mario and his twin brother Aldo immersed themselves in American culture, attending school by day and working at a local gas station by night. One evening, the roar of engines from a nearby track changed everything. “We saw the bright lights and heard the explosion of engines,” Andretti recalls. “That’s when we discovered modified stock cars—and that’s when the idea started.”

By 19, the brothers had built their own Hudson-based race car, fudged their birthdates to compete, and began dominating local dirt tracks. Aldo won the heat and feature in their debut race. Mario estimates he won 23 races before his career officially began – unverified, but legendary nonetheless.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

One of Andretti’s most profound contributions to motorsport was his role in developing ground effects with Lotus in the late 1970s. Drawing inspiration from the wing-shaped side pods of the March 701, Andretti proposed extending the aerodynamic profile across the car’s wheelbase. “I said, as a driver, I’d love to have downforce without the penalty of drag,” he explains.

Through trial and error – including plastic sheets and broom bristles – Lotus eventually developed movable skirts and a rolling-road wind tunnel, revolutionizing Formula One aerodynamics.

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix we feature an in-depth interview with racing legend Mario Andretti. Born in Italy and emigrating to the US at 15, Andretti began his illustrious racing career in stock cars at 19. Over five decades, he won 111 races across different disciplines, including the Daytona 500, Indy 500, and the Formula One Championship. Andretti discusses his experiences from racing underage, contributing to the development of ground effects in Formula One, and his various racing endeavors, including Pike’s Peak and Le Mans. The episode also covers his collaborations with notable figures like Colin Chapman of Lotus and Enzo Ferrari, his transition across different racing disciplines, and the evolution of safety in motorsports. The podcast also touches on Andretti’s future aspirations and his son’s involvement in Formula 1.

You raced for five decades. Like we mentioned in the intro 111 wins, does that count the 23 before you turned 21 and were legally allowed to race?
Staying on top of new technology certainly played a part in your longevity. When you started racing, they didn’t even have radios in the race cars. The technology evolution that you have lived through has been incredible…You recently drove a modern F1 car at COTA, what was that like?
We’ve heard that one of the drivers that inspired you to race was Alberto Ascari (from Ferrari), did that give you a desire to pursue F1.
You raced at Pikes Peak? (With Bobby Unser).
What possessed you to approach Colin Chapman (after Jim Clark won the 1965 Indy 500) and ask about a ride?
You recently reunited with Jacky Ickx. You and Jacky were teammates in 11 grand prix races for Ferrari, six in 1971 and five in 1972. In the same timeframe, you ran 9 long distance races, had six poles, 4 wins and one second place finish.
We talked in the beginning about the technology changes in racing, but Safety also changed during the late 60s and early 70s in both F1 and Le Mans. When you raced in prototypes at Le Mans with Jacky Ickx; a couple years after his infamous boycotting of the Le Mans start – feelings on that?
Thoughts on the 100th Anniversary of Le Mans? Are you going? Are you participating in it in some way?

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Our guest is a racing icon considered by many to be the greatest race driver in the history of the sport. Born in Italy, emigrated to United States at 15, he began racing stock cars in Pennsylvania at 19, which was the start of an illustrious career. He won races in sports cars, sprint cars, and stock cars, on ovals, road courses, drag strips, on dirt, and pavement.

His achievements have become legendary. The world watched as he won the Daytona 500, the Indy 500, and ultimately the Formula One Championship, an unprecedented [00:01:00] trifecta. Mario Andretti took the checkered flag 111 times during his career. A career that has stretched five decades and across six continents.

I am joined by William Ross from the Exotic Car Marketplace in welcoming the one and only Mario Andretti to BreakFix.

Mario Andretti: Thank you. Thank you very much.

William Ross: Appreciate you taking the time to join us, Mario. Really appreciate it.

Mario Andretti: It’s my pleasure. My pleasure.

William Ross: In Eric’s intro, he mentions the 111 wins. Does that include the 23 that started when you were underage?

Mario Andretti: No, it doesn’t because it’s almost impossible to verify those because of the times. It was not a, um, a sanction series. It’s a local. You know, a race within 150 miles, you know, different tracks, Western Pennsylvania and New Jersey. But, uh, it was not sanctioned, so they cannot verify it. We started when I was 21, started with the three quarter midgets, which was, uh, [00:02:00] sanctioned by American Three Quarter Racing Association, U R C, then A R D C in, in 1959 and 1960.

I won a lot of races. You know, the way, as much as I can remember is 23 races.

William Ross: I’ll take your word for it. We’ll add it to the tally. It says you can ask some of my friends. They’re verified. I was watching the year before when Zach Brown offered you to drive his McLaren at Coda. I always remember that day cause you’re walking next to him.

You kind of said it half heartedly and he said, sure. That look on your face was shocked, like really? And then they set it up. So I was curious, how was it driving that car? Obviously, it’s been a long time since you’re in something so technologically advanced like that.

Mario Andretti: Well, actually, uh, it was pretty much everything I expected, if you will, because, uh, it’s not that I’ve been totally out of it.

An IndyCar in every aspect has a lot of the same commands and so forth. And I’ve done some testing for my son on high speed, and then I was playing around with it. I’m pretty current, [00:03:00] technically, it was really a pleasure. I just wish that I would have had more time to really get the cockpit properly, the adjustments.

It was impossible to adjust the pedal platform and the steering. There was no adjustment at all. So for me to reach the pedals because I’m not six foot two. So they had to bring me up so far forward that the steering was right in my chest. So I could not really get the feel that I wanted to be able to thrash the car like I wanted to.

I got what I expected and I’m grateful that he made that available for me of course. Zach Brown is a good man, he’s a great friend. Next time I’m going to ask for a full day of testing so we can set a record. And a seat fitting. Fitting, yeah. I must say, the padding was very soft, you know, except foam rubber.

I felt like I was in a jelly bowl. One time down the straightaway, you know, yeah, my hunch device. The back of it got [00:04:00] stuck on my headrest and I was looking up at the sky. Oh my goodness. Well, anyway, that was fun.

Crew Chief Eric: I will say from the outside, all of those things that you described, none of us could tell. And I will say this, watching you drive a modern Formula One car at Koda.

And lap after lap, despite everything you just said, it looked like you were going faster and faster and faster. Your lines were perfect. Your apexes were on point. You sat back and you go, I’m watching a master. Just learn from this, watch this in slow motion, every little inch of the track. So hearing it from the other side is hilarious.

But from those of us watching, it was. Perfection.

Mario Andretti: Well, you’re very kind. Just wait until I get the seat fitting.

William Ross: Obviously, with what’s going on in F1 now, the downforce the ground effects, what I always found was interesting, and you don’t hear much about it, you were really integral in regards to creating the ground effects, working with the engineers at Lotus.

And if memory serves me, I know you were saying how when you’re going around corners, [00:05:00] getting closer to the ground, it was creating that effect. It popped in your head about the marches you drove. In regards to the angle of the side pods in that. So you kind of were integral in creating the ground effects and helping get these perfected.

Mario Andretti: What happened is in, uh, 1970, I drove the March 701. It was a, uh, grenatility effort in Formula 1. And the car had side pods. The side pods was primarily cosmetic, but there were shape of a wing profile. We were testing in South Africa, which is altitude, and I’m looking at the silhouette of the car and I felt maybe we should take those off because I thought there was additional frontal area.

And so we did, and all of a sudden the car started flying the front end. So basically I needed to compensate for the balance of the rear wing. I needed more front wing, which that created actually more frontal area. Okay, so we bolted the side pods back on, which meant they gave us some downforce. Some [00:06:00] forward center of pressure at the end of 76 with Lotus, with Colin and the engineers at the end of the season, you know, we all caucusing about talking about, okay, what is a driver?

What would you like? You know? And I said that, well, I said, as a driver, I would love to have downforce without penalty of drag, you know, and nobody laughed. The bottom line is I gave that example. And I said that nobody discussed that ever that I know. I said, but we tried it. We did take those off. So why don’t you construct on a new car, get a longer profile?

Because if you look at that March 701, those weight profiles were very short. And I said, Why don’t you take advantage of the entire wheelbase, you know? And then of course you put the fences on, you know, so we’ll direct the air properly because there were no fences on those, you know, the fences were, I mean, end plates anyway.

So that’s how the Lotus [00:07:00] 78 was born in 1977. Immediately we got definite ground effect out of it, but we were still searching. We were not really on it, if you will. The other part is that we found out, which is very important. All of the wind tunnel testing was done was static wind tunnel. They were getting some numbers that didn’t really coincide very much with what we were feeling, you know, on a track.

We’re testing in Hockenheim, Germany. Porsche curb that connects the two main straightaways is kind of a long right hander. And I remember just in the middle of the right hander when you get the, you know, the most roll in the car. That means we were closing the side plate to the ground. All of a sudden I was getting an enormous amount of downforce and the car felt good.

And I was really flying through that corner. And I came in and I said, you know, I said, there’s something about closing the gap here. Okay. How do we do that? So Colin sent one of the mechanics into town to get some [00:08:00] plastic sheets, pop rivet those on to drag on the ground. And I went out. All of a sudden it was a whole new deal.

The car really felt good. It was fine, but two laps later, you wear them out and then you’re back where you started the next race. He had like bristles, like a broom bristles, you know, they were not that effective, but they were at least. consistent. After that, the so called movable skirts were born. He designed that, which obviously that’s when the situation was much more consistent and then also most effective.

So you could see there was a, we were searching throughout the season, started out on the one idea and it turned out to be something else. And then. And then what was important was that Colin Chapman, they were the first ones to develop a wind tunnel with a belt, which would mean the moving road that of course the wheels had to be turning, you realize how much the wheels were affecting the flow into the tunnels.

And so a lot of, you know [00:09:00] what I mean? Then all of a sudden it’s a whole new deal, how you’re designed to direct the air in that direction and all that. So, but again, you were just learning and then you could start putting the pieces together. Oh yeah, okay. This is a whole new world now. Then of course, everybody else, uh, you know, obviously pursued the same thing and then great engineers, you know, the other teams, and they just started perfecting in their own way, but, uh, we definitely are the ones that, you know, the Lotus that brought this about, you know, this idea.

William Ross: It’s great how Connell was willing to push the envelope like that and have those ideas. And he was brilliant in that aspect in regards to new techniques, new things, trying stuff and building cars like that.

Mario Andretti: Yeah, it was also interesting that, you know, you talk about porpoising and all that, you know, we actually started with putting a name to that bouncing that the car gets, the more downforce that you got.

Then we started getting that because the car would be at high speed, pushed down and bounced up. As soon as you hit the travel [00:10:00] of the dampers and get on a bump rubbers, then it bounced right back up and you get all of this. Well, obviously, I saw when, you know, they went back to the tunnels in Formula One, I saw that they were dealing with a sport pursuing situation.

It was very familiar, as you can imagine for us. Did

William Ross: you guys have it as bad as they seemed to have it in the beginning last year?

Mario Andretti: Well, we did, but each design will produce more frequent. Or less, and also depends on how stiff your suspension is at the time, but porpoise is probably, it’s very annoying and disturbing.

And then obviously physically it’s a real problem for the driver. No question. Oh, yeah. We’re on you quite considerably.

William Ross: Yeah. I kind of want to jump into Italy. I believe you said you were 14 when you went to Monza for the first time to watch your first F1 race?

Mario Andretti: 14. Yes, that was a year before we came to the States.

Yes.

William Ross: Ascari was your favorite driver at that time, or always has been as one of your favorite drivers?

Mario Andretti: Yeah, of course, you know, Italy was very prominent in Formula One, as you can imagine, the 50s [00:11:00] with Ferrari, you know, Maserati especially, and then of course the beginning of Formula One. Alfa Romeo winning the first official world championship and Alberto Ascari was at the time was the first Italian world champion.

Liz Farina was, I’m not clear on that, but nevertheless, you know, I was just a teenager and Ascari was the guy. To be able to witness him first hand in Monza, you know, it was a huge, huge thing for me and my brother, Aldo, my twin brother. But honestly, that’s when my, uh, the dream of becoming a race driver was cemented in my head, you know, no question.

William Ross: When you got over here though, 15, what were you working to get to? Cause you obviously didn’t start racing until you were about 19. What were you doing in that interim here in those four years? Were you just trying to get everything together to start go racing or? Were you doing some other things?

Mario Andretti: At that age, I was going to school, you know, Aldo and I, we were going to school and then, uh, we used to alternate in the evening, uh, working at, we call him [00:12:00] uncle.

He was, he was married to my second cousin. He had a snorkel gas station at the end of town. And that was a great way to be able to, you know, to mingle with people and learn the language. Because, uh, in school in Italy, we had three years of English, but, uh, you know, it was not practical. I mean, I couldn’t even ask for a postcard in English, you know, when, when we came here.

But when you have more knowledge of the grammar, you know, it’s easier to learn the language. And in school, we… I think we did quite well, but it was, the objective was to really, we arrived in the States here in June, of course, start school in September, but I vowed, I said, by Christmas, I want to be able to communicate in English and, uh, and I think, uh, we achieved that, Aldo and I, which was very useful, but going back to your question, when we arrived here on a Thursday, we were hanging out at my uncle’s house at the end of Nazareth, the end of town.

Yeah. And Sunday night, we see the bright lights on the background, and [00:13:00] then all of a sudden, a big explosion of engines, and that’s when we discovered modified stock cars. And that’s when the idea started. I said that because, you know, you had a dream, okay? How do you put a dream into reality, you know? We didn’t know much about racing in the States, except after seeing a movie, uh, to please a lady in Italy.

That’s another one that gave us some idea that what was going on here, but, uh, it was dirt racing was something that I said, Oh, I don’t know. This was very far after seeing a formula one race. In Monza, then going to the fairground and seeing the stock, you know, the one good thing, it looked doable, didn’t look as sophisticated.

That’s what three years after we arrived here in 1957, we got to know some buddies, you know, always you talk racing and this, and I always say, you know, I tell the same story. I said that there was a geek there, a guy that knew everything, Charlie Mitch. And he’s the one that was giving some ideas as to how to go [00:14:00] about it.

And we could not afford to go modify a race, but they had a category, sportsman, and that’s what we pursued. And we did the right thing because the Hudson cars were very popular in NASCAR on the dirt tracks. They were winning, pretty much winning most of the races. At the time, so, uh, we pursued that. We bought some information from a Marshall T team.

Factory folded. They went out of racing at that time, officially. So we got suspension setups. We got, uh, all of that, which was, uh, pivotal. It was, uh, amazing how useful that was for us. And then, uh, we found out that the factory was sold all the racing engines to, uh, the Whitney company in Chicago that they were selling for, like, power plants or something.

So we bought one of the racing engines there, and you know, when we put that thing together, you know, we thought that, okay, we start racing at 21, but the car was ready. We were 19. I said, time to go. And, uh, we had a friend of ours that, uh, [00:15:00] fudge day. I’ve actually, the Editor of the local paper, fudged the birth dates on our license, driver’s license, and telling everybody that we used to race in Italy and all that.

So it was a bit of a fib there, but for sure. But anyway, so that’s when it started, 1959. And I’ll go! Aldo, by the way, won car to drivers. Aldo won the toss. He won the heat and the feature in the very first race.

William Ross: Yeah, your brother was a heck of a driver, too.

Mario Andretti: You know, we have some newspaper clippings to back that up, by the way.

Not just a dream.

Crew Chief Eric: You piqued my interest when you started talking about dirt, but not in the same way I grew up during what’s known as the killer bee or group B era, watching drivers like Michel Mouton and Walter Rural and Hannu Mikola driving rally cars. And that’s what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a WRC guy.

Mario Andretti: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: But as we look through your portfolio, you’ve done so many different disciplines of racing, which is amazing. And in that. Our attempts at Pikes Peak and a win at Pikes [00:16:00] Peak and you hold a similar title to Bobby Unser who won Pikes Peak in the same year as winning Indy and that was back in 1969. So what drove you to go to Colorado Springs?

What about that Pikes Peak experience?

Mario Andretti: Well, it was Bobby Unser. He’s the one, you know, you know, we were good pals. He’s the one that talked me into it. As a matter of fact, the very first one, I only drove there three times, three years. One of the third, and I figured I’d never go back because I think I was going to kill myself with that.

I took so many risks on that third year. But The first year I drove and the deal was with him that I’ll drive, if he only drives a stock car class, you know, so I don’t have to compete against them because there’s no way I could have beaten him there. You know, that place so well. And that’s what the whole thing is.

You need it to know 183 corners. There’s no way. And then point is you miss one, a couple of them. And they used to say that a bird will build a nest up your butt before you hit the bottom. That’s how far you had to [00:17:00] go. So you had to respect the place. There was not a guardrail, you know. I mean, it was just gone.

There was no guardrails at all, nowhere.

Crew Chief Eric: And obviously Bobby went on to run many times more at Pike’s Peak. He set the record in the Audi Sport Quattro S1, which was later. Taken away by Peugeot and things like that in the eighties. What do you think about now? Pike’s Peak has been paved all the way to the summit.

Is it really still the same race to the clouds?

Mario Andretti: No way, no way. I mean, you’re talking about rallying, you know, I, uh, that’s why I said that at least I have a Taste of that. I could say that I technically did rallying, you know, because that’s what it was all about. You know, the dirt racing left, right up and down, you know, and, and braking accelerating, yeah, that was unique in itself, no question now being paid.

I mean, now it’s, it’s just another hill climb.

Crew Chief Eric: As we transition the conversation here, both William and I want to dive a little bit [00:18:00] more into Formula One, but we also want to talk about your time at Le Mans, because Le Mans is coming up on its hundredth anniversary here very soon. You talked about starting in dirt and stock car, and we’ve talked about Pike’s Peak, but I’ve heard the story that you sort of walked up to Colin Chapman after Jim Clark won the 65 and you were asking him about a ride, but is that really how it played out?

And where did you find the motivation to just? You know, knock on his door and say, Hey, Mr. Chapman, I want to come drive for you.

Mario Andretti: Well, you know, in 65 at Indianapolis, it’s one race where you have the luxury of spending a lot of time, much more even was one week longer than now, even. And so you get to know people, you know, every day.

And back of my head was always somehow I want to have the opportunity to do some formula one in my career. At the time there was not much road racing on the single seaters. The way it worked out with Colin Chapman and Jim Clark, you know, I got to know him quite well for the period that we were there.

So I finished third, so I got Rookie of the Year. So I [00:19:00] got some recognition. The end of the banquet, you know, which was traditional banquet, which goes on every year now, even the day after the race, we were saying our goodbyes. I said, Colin, I said, someday I would like to do Formula One. And he said, Mario, he says, whenever you think you’re ready, you call me and I’ll have a car for you.

You know, I hit cloud nine at that point, you know, my objective then was to try to hone my skills into road racing. You know, as, as luck would have it. There was just one road race in 1965 on that season, which was Indianapolis Raceway Park, which I won. The only race that I won, even though I won the national championship that year, that’s the only race that I won.

I got a lot of seconds and thirds and so forth. And the other one is when I was driving midgets. I was driving the ARDC midgets. There was one race, a Lime Rock, on a road course. And I won that one. And there, they even had a Mark Donahue with one of John Cooper’s, you know, [00:20:00] chassis was a rear engine midget.

They was constructed just for that race was brought in for just that race. And he led until the last lap. And I got him the last lap cross the finish line. And, uh, so I thought it was sponge of that day, actually. Uh, it was, you know, uh, road racing was something in. That was part of my objective right from the very beginning.

I love my third track racing, but that was the way to get there. You know, the reason why I really tried to get the attention of Ford, to be able to join the Le Mans program. Because there was a big effort there to try to win Le Mans, of course, Henry Ford. That’s, that was his objective and, uh, there were no holes barred.

So there was a lot of testing and development that I wanted to be part of. I made myself available for every test. You know, I befriended Bruce McLaren along the way, great guy in every way. Plus he was very technical driver and I was [00:21:00] watching. His rotations, braking and accelerating through the snow corners and all that, all the technical part, it taught me a lot.

Bruce taught me a lot, actually. We won the Sebring together with the new Mark IV. So a lot of things were going in the right direction for me. And in 1968, I felt, you know what, it’s time, it’s time. It was, uh, two races left, Italy and the US. And I asked, uh, Colin, you know, if he’s, if he would apply, he would absolutely, I will have a, he entered a third car for me for Italy and at Watkins Glen.

It was a glitch there in Italy because I was going for the national championship and it was a dirt race on Saturday of that weekend. So I was in Monza a week before testing and it went well. In fact, Chris Heyman tested a Ferrari a few days before me, and at the end, I was quicker than him. And I couldn’t believe it, you know, just how well [00:22:00] that Formula 1 suited me at that time.

And so I was very encouraged, you know, after this. There was the problem, like, I could only qualify on a Friday. You know, in those days, There was no specific qualifying period during the weekend, every lap that you turn in practice counted for qualifying. So I had to get my qualifying and the first practice on Friday morning because I had a 2.

30 flight in the afternoon back to the States. I brought Bobby Anser with me. I got him a ride with the BRM, Lewis Stanley BRM. And so we could do some slip streaming because Monza was very important to do that. And he and I did that. And at that point I was Quickest, you know, but nobody was really trying very hard, but was quickest by a second and a half, actually.

And so we left and ran to Hoosier Hunter, actually ran second to Floyd. And we went back the next day. We arrived at the track about an hour and a half before the race. My car was already on the grid, was seventh on the grid, but [00:23:00] there was a protest. It was agreed that they were going to waive the 24 hour rule, which had been in place for a couple of years.

It was agreed, but you know, it still was a protest and I never really knew officially who protested. I think it was Ferrari and it was the only one that could have protested that. Nevertheless, they would not let us start either Bobby or I. So the first actual official race was. Watkins Glen, two weeks later, and I put the car in pole there, which surprised the hell out of myself, but honestly, but you know, I felt like, okay, maybe, maybe I belong.

It’s one of those moments where it’s so encouraging, you know, that, uh, it builds up your confidence that I haven’t been wasting my time type of thing, you know, like, uh, belonging in this business and, uh, great moments. These are important moments in my career. Especially the fact,

William Ross: the difference between the two cars, USAC IndyCar.

Heavy, a lot of power, don’t know, but then you got this F1 car, it’s super light, nimble. That’s [00:24:00] impressive.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, not only that, jumping to a prototype doing the Le Mans testing is completely different too. And so I think one of your key strengths, Mario, is that you had so many different racing disciplines under your belt by this point, it made you a versatile driver.

But also well rounded maybe compared to other people that were coming only from touring car or only from open wheel. You had this ability to basically morph into whatever you were driving and be successful behind the wheel of everything.

Mario Andretti: Yeah, Eric, I think it served me well in the sense that I could adapt.

From one animal to the other, I could adapt, uh, easier and also because I really wanted it so bad, you know what I mean? I think there was a burning desire to get it done along with some of this wider experience. Like, I use some of my experience on the dirt tracks, you know, dirt racing for the wet races, because you always run a very different line through the corners, always searching for grip in a wet.

And that’s what you do in the dark. Exactly [00:25:00] what you do in the dark. You could see that there’s something that seemed that, you know, apples and oranges by comparison, you know, as far as the, you know, the type of car and circumstances. But a lot of things mesh, you know what I mean? You can put to good use what you learn one for the other.

Crew Chief Eric: You were talking about the desire to win and to achieve and all that. And obviously along the way, you made tons of friends, lifelong friends and teammates and et cetera. But I wondered. Did you have any rivals or did just people consider Mario Andretti, their rival? You were the bar that they were trying to get to.

Mario Andretti: You know, they’re different personalities. It’s different teammates and different personalities. And, uh, give you a, for instance, like in, you know, even with Lotus and Formula One, uh, with the Ronnie Peterson, he and I were really good friends. Outside the track, you know, we spent time together, you know, there were time when the family spent together when he came to the States, you know, we go out and play around, you know, up at the lake and so forth.

We’d have a [00:26:00] beer together and try to kill each other on the racetrack. And then, then have a beer together, you know, that kind of a thing. And Carlos Reutemann, he wouldn’t even have dinner with me. You know, I just, he was very secluse. It was that kind of a thing. You want to have to keep it that way. And other areas, even in sports cars, you know, the teammate, Jackie Eaks and I got along peachy, just, you know, we understood each other and blah, blah, blah, and there were others where, you know, you’re fighting, Oh, I’m going to qualify, I’m going to qualify, you know, I had one or two of those.

Again, it’s all about personalities, but you know, you try to keep the peace as much as

Crew Chief Eric: possible. It’s funny you say that. We had Lynn St. James on last year, and when I asked her that question, she said, everyone was my rival. Again, different perspectives on the same thing.

Mario Andretti: We talk about rivals. Here’s the way I look at it.

There’s always somebody better than you somewhere. You’re learning, you know, the rivals. I mean, if it’s not a potent rival, you’re not going to work as [00:27:00] hard for some reason. So I always say that the rivalries are ultimately very healthy, in my opinion. That’s the way it served for me. You know, there’s a premium as to who finishes second to you or who you finish second to.

Very true.

William Ross: Yeah,

Mario Andretti: that’s the way it works.

William Ross: Speaking of Jackie Hicks, you guys actually, uh, I want to say reunited or ever got together in Long Beach.

Mario Andretti: Yes, we did. Yeah, actually, I hadn’t seen him for a while. Great way to catch up and sort of reminisce a little bit. But we, we had a great time together, obviously.

That was a good period to be in a Ferrari and we won some good races together.

Crew Chief Eric: What was it like switching from under Colin Chapman at Lotus and then working for Il Comendatore himself, Enzo Ferrari? What was the culture like switching from the Brits to the Italians? Uh, different culture for sure.

Mario Andretti: And here again, that’s where you have to adapt.

The one. Good thing about Ferrari, I could speak the language, you know, some of the foreign drivers that, you know, everybody just, even, you know, whether they’re German, whatever, [00:28:00] whatever the nationality, you still learn the language, but I could speak it fluently and I could speak it with the mechanics, which was a good feeling, you know, and it was very special.

And my relationship with Mr. Ferrari was also direct. I didn’t have to have a middleman feel like Dr. God, see, uh, For instance, uh, as of late, and you can imagine that just me having that relationship with him, you know, where I dreamt so much, you know, being a race driver because of Ferrari really as a young lad.

So you could see how precious those times were for me.

William Ross: Yeah, especially winning your first F1 race in a Ferrari, taboo.

Mario Andretti: Yeah, so many of the right things, you know, happening. My last experience in Formula One was a Ferrari, you know, and they do, you know, how do you design that?

William Ross: You

Mario Andretti: cannot, you know,

William Ross: someone upstairs.

Mario Andretti: Yeah, yeah. Somebody upstairs likes.

Crew Chief Eric: During the time period, especially when you were leaving Ferrari in 1982, this was also where the Villeneuve Pierroni [00:29:00] rivalry was sort of coming to light. We’re starting to hear about that now. What was your take on that situation as you were sort of there on the scene?

Mario Andretti: I was never in the middle of that. All I know is that Villeneuve was loved by Enzo Ferrari. And he was… Obviously, and it was a such tragic time. Not, there was nothing you could talk about, you know, going back to Monza, uh, was moment mm-hmm. , you know, it was just sad and you didn’t talk about it, obviously.

Yeah. It was trying circumstances. Uh, you put aside everything else. There was, uh, any controversy, you didn’t discuss it. That was something that whatever went on, went on with them. I had nothing to do with it.

Crew Chief Eric: But the reason I bring it up leads back into the conversation about Jackie. And in 19… 69, he stood his ground at Lamont’s and said, I’m not partaking in this craziness.

That is the Lamont start. And he walked out to his Porsche and he still ended up winning the race at the end of it all. Like [00:30:00] we talked about in the beginning where William was talking about how the technology changed and you were in the new formula one car recently, how has safety changed for the better?

Or maybe some things have stayed the same. How do you see the transition over the years as you’ve been involved in racing?

Mario Andretti: Huge transition and everything evolved. The safety aspect, as I say, certainly was not dealt with very virgously, you know, in those years that we’re talking about. And it took someone like Jackie East.

To stand firm and say, this is crazy. Why are we doing this? Like I said, then all of a sudden, I think reasoning prevailed. I said, you know, here, Baba, we don’t do it anymore. So that was a step in the right direction for sure. Because I experienced that in 66 and none of us actually really clipped the belt on, you know, until we were on the Le Mans straight.

30 miles an hour trying to click the belt on. So anyway, it was crazy. Uh, but the safety aspect is what I think saved the sport in my way of [00:31:00] thinking. Going into modern times when the sport, you know, has become more commercial, as you could see with, we’re relying on, um, outside investment companies spending millions of dollars to be.

Proud with being connected and they don’t want to go to funerals, you know? So from our standpoint, it had to be something that we had to lead. And actually all of us started with forming the GPDA in formula one and demanding certain aspects of improving circuit safety. We started from the beginning, you know, from the bottom up.

I brought into Formula One some, uh, you know, aircraft fueling aspect. After I did Sebring, you know, they were dumping fuel in the funnel. I got a bunch of fuel on me and when I went out and my whole right side of my leg blistered because, uh, you know, the heat. and rubbing and the fuel that was all blistered down to, you know, a lot of things that, and it took time.

It took time. I’m one that obviously nowadays appreciates what today’s drivers are enjoying because I’ve seen [00:32:00] and experienced back then. But in the same breath, did that make a difference when we were in the car? Hell no. Did we hold back? Because of that, hell no. You know what I mean? You still went for it.

So that’s the way it is. But some of us are not here to tell the story, you know, because of that unfortunately. It’s wonderful that today’s drivers, like I said, have the best chance ever to retire on their own terms. That’s a beautiful thing.

Crew Chief Eric: We are about to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of Le Mans.

Are you going? Are you participating in some way? What are your thoughts looking back over the hundred years, especially the many, many years you spent at Le Mans?

Mario Andretti: Well, since I’m not driving, I don’t think I’m going, but I was invited there. They have a lot of events. They have dinners and all that sort of thing.

I don’t know. It’s not a hundred percent. I’m not going, but I don’t think I’m going to go, but it’s very nice that I was invited for sure. Officially great to celebrate an event like that, you know, wonderful milestone for Lamont [00:33:00] Lamont, let’s face it. That is the premier long distance race anywhere on this planet.

So I’ve had the opportunity to race there. I think it’s, uh, something that I put on my mantle very proudly.

Crew Chief Eric: So are you rooting for the new Ferrari 499P or do you have something else you’re interested in following during that race?

Mario Andretti: Well, if Ferrari would ask me to drive, I’d probably go there.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s going to be an exciting year.

16 new cars in LMP1 or GTP. So it’s looking really cool.

Mario Andretti: Sports car racing is really, really, it’s at a good place nowadays as well. WEC and IMSA just seeing great equipment and the technology and all the right things. And it’s amazing how hard you can drive these cars, you know, and it’s a 24 hour race.

He’d leave nothing on the table. You know, the reliability aspect is such that, uh, it’s amazing. So it’s gotta be so satisfying. I’ll have a lot more opportunity to be closer to that because of. [00:34:00] Michael involvement with the Wayne Taylor team, you know, he, he owns part of that team now. And, and it was really interesting.

I mean, it’s the first time I just sat there with Wayne, um, in Long Beach and great event, you know, obviously they started on Paul with Philippe Albuquerque and then, uh, he led until the, they had a pit stop issue, radio, whatever, and then it couldn’t. Connect and they did last like 14 seconds. And Ricky Taylor had to make all, just about all of it up.

And he did. And at the end, they kind of tried a little bit hard, but nevertheless, they’re always competitive and that’s, that’s going to make it fun.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what makes for good racing. Absolutely.

Mario Andretti: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: William, one final question, right?

William Ross: You’re some Michael and what’s going on. Last thing you want to ask is me and her both want to see it.

Same journey name back in F1. We know the powers that be over there not wanting to cut up the slice of the pie, so to speak. Has there been any more progress in regards to getting the team together or getting it on the [00:35:00] grid?

Mario Andretti: Well, the process is continuing, you know, with the FIA. It’s in the hands of the FIA right now.

We’re responding to all the requests. It’s a specific protocol they want to follow and we’re going with it, of course. And so, yeah, the process is on for sure. Yeah. Fantastic.

Crew Chief Eric: Mario Andretti remains one of the greatest ambassadors and one of the most respected voices in motorsport. And you can follow Mario on social media by finding him on Twitter at Mario Andretti, on Instagram at Andretti Mario, and on Facebook at Mario Andretti Official.

Be sure to visit his official website at www. marioandretti. com for more updates on what’s next. For his racing career. Mario, I cannot thank you enough. Grazie Emilia for coming on Break Fix. There’s not a bigger name in racing than Mario Andretti. A name everyone knows, past, present, and future petrolheads.

Someone that all of us can relate to.

Mario Andretti: You’re very kind. Thank you so much for having me [00:36:00] on.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Mario Andretti: I like it , man. I really do. . We’ll make a slight correction on it.

William Ross: I know I’m wrong. Like I said, I was trying to squeeze it in. So , you should trademark this Mario and start selling merch on your site net.

Mario Andretti: If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough. Remember ? Thank you, Gracia. Very kind. out.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind [00:37:00] you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

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None of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:27 Meet Mario Andretti: Racing Legend
01:25 Early Racing Career and Achievements
02:19 Driving the McLaren at COTA
04:43 Innovations in Ground Effects
10:39 The Birth of a Racing Dream
12:55 Racing in the United States
16:07 Pikes Peak and Rallying Adventures
17:55 Formula One Aspirations
19:45 Racing Midgets and Winning at Lime Rock
20:27 Joining the Le Mans Program with Ford
21:17 First Formula 1 Experience and Qualifying Challenges
23:51 Adapting to Different Racing Disciplines
25:16 Rivalries and Friendships in Racing
27:35 Switching Teams: From Lotus to Ferrari
29:59 Safety Evolution in Motorsport
32:28 Looking Back at Le Mans and Future Prospects
35:18 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Bonus Content

Mario drives a modern F1 car!

As discussed on Drive Thru News #27 and this episode!

Break/Fix Podcast: Mario Andretti - Racing to the clouds at Pikes Peak with Bobby Unser

COMING TO BREAK/FIX PODCAST 5/23/2023 - **MARIO ANDRETTI** - EPISODE 200.

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