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From Mud Holes to Motorsports: Brockton Packard’s Journey Through Racing, iRacing, and Everything In Between

September 12, 2023

What do off-roading in Florida swamps, a muffler skidding down the street, and a virtual Daytona 24 have in common? For Brockton Packard, they’re all chapters in a motorsports origin story that’s still being written.

In this episode of the Break/Fix Podcast, we meet Brockton – a young racer, iRacing team lead, podcast co-host, and motorsports enthusiast whose journey proves that passion, persistence, and a few backup plans can take you far in the racing world.

Brockton’s love for motorsports began in central Florida, where Sunday NASCAR races were the only thing that could lull him to sleep as a kid. Raised in a military family with no motorsports background, he found inspiration in the roar of V8s and the vibrant world of diecast collectibles. His early experiences included off-roading with his dad’s old Jeeps – manual transmission only, of course – and tearing through the Florida mud at a place affectionately called “the mud hole.”

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But it was a racing church group event at Sebring that truly lit the fire. “Kids Racing for Life” gave Brockton the chance to ride in high-performance cars like Porsches and Ferraris. His constant thumbs-up from the passenger seat said it all: he wanted more speed, more G-forces, and more racing.

Attending the 50th anniversary Daytona 500 sealed the deal. The atmosphere, the smell of race fuel, and the thunder of Goodyear tires made Brockton a lifelong NASCAR fan. Jeff Gordon’s iconic #24 Chevy helped cement his loyalty to GM, though his dad’s Jeep legacy still holds a place in his heart.

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Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, Brockton Packard shares his journey from a young NASCAR fan to leading the iRacing team for Niner eSports. Coming from a military family with no motorsports background, Brockton’s love for racing was sparked as a child watching NASCAR races on TV. He reflects on early mechanical experiences with his dad, attending racing events, and volunteer work, which solidified his passion for motorsports. Brockton discusses his involvement with Reaume Brothers Racing (RBR) NASCAR Truck team and his extensive race experiences, including the challenges of iRacing and managing his team. He outlines his multi-faceted plans in motorsports, including mechanical engineering, communications, and potentially professional racing. The episode also delves into the importance of versatility, sim racing’s rise, the reality of eSports in motorsports, and Brockton’s future with Jordan Anderson Racing.

The who/what/where/when/how of Brock? Expand on the Family-Life part from the intro. How did you get into cars? What made you into a Petrol-head? Chevy, Ford, MOPAR or other…
So let’s talk about racing, you’ve dabbled in various ways, be it Karting, R/C, and iRacing – all of which are very different. Where do you see yourself taking the next step as a driver? Or do you even want to? What are some barriers to entry? What are some interesting alternatives?
Let’s talk about your experience as part of the RBR team. How did you get into that?
What were some of your responsibilities? How long did you participate in the team? What did you learn from the experience?
University Life: You’re studying Mechanical Engineering. How is that going? Thoughts on programs like Formula SAE? Are you aware of Formula BAJA?
There’s actually a debate as to whether or not SimRacing is even considered eSports – let’s face it many eSports aren’t even sports, (The 2023 Top 10 are: League of Legends, Dota 2, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Fortnite, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Valorant, Rainbow Six Siege, Rocket League, Hearthstone – no where on this list is iRacing – why?
If someone isn’t already into racing, SimRacing might be viewed as “just another video game” – How would you convince someone to become part of this eSport?
You co-host The Pressbox Motorsports Podcast – what’s it about, what do you talk about? Frequency of release, why should people tune in, where can you find it? Upcoming #spoilers?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix Podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder how did they get that job or become that person.

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Mountain Man Dan: Like I’ve always said, you gotta start ’em young.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re right. Mountain man, Dan and our guest tonight is a prime example of that exact sentiment.

Mountain Man Dan: Much like myself, he comes from a military family background with no real history and motor sports apart from the recreational ATVs that they owned. His love for the sport was sparked at a young age when his mom would sit him in front of the TV on Sundays for NASCAR races ’cause it was the only thing that could get him to fall asleep.

Crew Chief Eric: Fast forward many years and Brockton Packard finds himself racing go-karts. He’s the team lead for iRacing at Niner eSports, part of the [00:01:00] University of North Carolina at Charlotte’s eSports organization. He’s been part of an underfunded NASCAR truck team, Raum Brothers racing and co-hosts, the Press Box Motorsports podcast, and he’s here tonight to share his journey and thoughts on the world of motorsports for other aspiring enthusiasts.

So welcome to Break Fix Brock.

Brockton Packard: Hey guys, it’s good to be here and, um, excited to have a great show tonight

Crew Chief Eric: and like all good break fix stories. Everybody has a superhero origin. So let’s dive deeper into your Petrolhead origin story. Tell us about the who, what, where and when of Brock expand on the family life part of our introduction.

How did you get into cars and what made you into a petrol hood?

Brockton Packard: I grew up in Southern Central Florida around Daytona, Miami, all those dig motor sports locations. The NASCAR season would start and end in Florida. We’d always go around those kind of races. We had Sebring, U S A International, which you iRacing fans out there are very familiar with through the rookie street stocks programs.

Like Dan was [00:02:00] saying in the intro, my mom would put me down on Sunday afternoon in front of the TV and I’d watch the cars go around. The V eights had a certain sound that my brain would just shut me off. For four or five years probably. That’s how I’d be able to fall asleep over the weekends. And then eventually I’d start watching those races, collecting the die cast, getting to know who was my favorites and who were not my favorites, and then kind of formed my own opinion throughout that.

In the motor sports world, like was also mentioned, we went to what was called the mud hole in Florida. It was about a couple hundred acres of just Florida swamp. Everybody would run their Jeeps, their trucks, their motorcycles, all that stuff through the woods, and we’d go through that, just rip through it hours and hours and hours day after day.

So that’s kind of where it started. And then working with my dad on his Jeeps, he had old eighties and nineties Jeeps. His seal of approval was if it was a manual transmission and if it had the stamp on it, that would be his best case scenario for his Jeeps. But we’d [00:03:00] work a lot on those because they were old Jeeps in Florida, so there’s rust and stuff would break and we, we weren’t nice to ’em, but that’s when I kind of got my first like mechanical hands-on experience.

Mountain Man Dan: Having lived in the Southeast, I know that working on the Jeeps a lot and while I was in Southeast my share of Offroading and there’s a lot of sand mixture in the mud down there and it’s really hard on a lot of components such as your bearings and stuff. So I know there’s a lot of upkeep to be able to go play in the mud down there.

Brockton Packard: Yeah. And. That Jeep was not the, uh, finest running Jeep in the world by any means. There was one day that we had just finished working on it, getting a couple parts and pieces in there, and my dad drove it down the road and I went inside for a couple minutes and all of a sudden we heard this big pop. We walked outside and the muffler was skidding down the road.

He blew the whole muffler and the the exhaust off of it. That we just like put on there. So there were lots of breaking and fixing moments with those Jeeps and that kind of progressed throughout my life.

Crew Chief Eric: So in all of our stories, there’s usually a common thread, right? Even if we were like [00:04:00] you, or we were placed in front of the TV and exposed to it, or out there turned wrenches in the garage.

There’s always that one time, that first time when a car or a truck or something got your attention and it was out of the ordinary because you were so used to just seeing Jeeps or just seeing whatever it was. What was that one vehicle that really got your attention?

Brockton Packard: We were in the epicenter of.

American Motor Sports in Florida, at least at the time, we were part of a racing church group that would go to Sebring for the Porsche B M W, Audi Owners Club, and we’d do a thing called Kids Racing for Life. We’d go down to Sebring, it’d be a week and a half-ish, couple weeks maybe, and it’d be essentially a make-a-wish.

For racing, there’d be these kids there and we’d set ’em up in Porsches, Ferraris, BMWs, Audis, all of this kind of stuff. And I think it was at that moment, was one of those moments that just sparked something inside me that racing was what I wanted to do. I always liked racing. I always liked nascar, but [00:05:00] being able to go around Sebring in a Porsche or something like that is just a different.

Experience That’s hard to explain to somebody who hasn’t been in a race car before. And it was funny because we had the hand signals, you know the the go faster, the go slower, the thumbs up, thumbs down kind of thing. ’cause you didn’t have radios and I was the only kid that just kept going. Thumbs up, thumbs up, thumbs up every lap.

’cause I just wanted to go faster, wanted to feel the G-forces going around the corners. And the sea brings such a fun track. The bumps, the corners. It’s not a lot of elevation, but it’s so fun. So I think that was by far. One moment that really sticks out in my head, maybe another moment that relates more of why I am a NASCAR kid.

My first Daytona 500 was the 50th anniversary 500 that we went to, and just the atmosphere and the crowd and the, the smell, the noise, it, it kept pulling me back in, over and over and over again.

Mountain Man Dan: There’s definitely something about the smell of race, fuel in the air that just gets you going.

Brockton Packard: My American ethanol and Goodyear tires.

You can’t get much better than that,

Crew Chief Eric: which actually leads to a great pit stop [00:06:00] question, right, Dan?

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. So being into motorsports and stuff like are you Chevy Ford, Mopar? What is your preference when it comes to manufacturer?

Brockton Packard: You know, the red and blue flames and that neon yellow 24 on the side of Jeff Gordon’s car always drew me to the Chevrolet side.

Of course, I have a soft spot for the Jeep because of my father, but I love myself some Chevy Camaros and Corvettes. They look mean to me. They sound mean. They always run well and uh, it’s never a bad combination, I suppose

Mountain Man Dan: being a GM guy, there’s common ground there. So you’re in good company.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. We’ll leave the square bodies for another episode.

All right guys. All jokes aside, let’s talk about racing. In the introduction, we talked about how you dabbled in it in various ways, carting remote control cars, and obviously iRacing, which we’re gonna talk about a little bit more here as we go along, all of which are very, very different. Where do you see yourself with this experience taking a next step as a driver, or do you even wanna be a driver?

What are some of the [00:07:00] barriers to the entry and what are some interesting alternatives that you’ve explored?

Brockton Packard: Driving has always been a number one priority for me. I love the feel and the kind of senses you get from driving a race car, whether it be virtually from above on a driver’s stand with an RC car or in a car.

That’s definitely what I want in the future, but the sport is very money driven and very uh, opportunity centric. My mom, I, I love her a lot, but she always made me have plans, plan A, B, C, and b. Plan A was always to drive a race car. That was number one. Plan would always want to do that. Plan B was to work on it in some shape or form, which we’ll get into a little bit later with some of the R V R stuff.

And Plan C was to be a, a spotter. That’s something that in I racing, you’re able to do. You’re able to spot and crew chief and strategize and all of these different things and I found a love for it. Actually pretty late on. I’ve only been high racing for about five years now, and that’s when I got my first real sense of spotting, being able to call the runs out, call high, low, middle, [00:08:00] et cetera.

Being able to do that kind of thing, seeing what was gonna happen before it happened, and also being able to do a little bit of math in there with fuel mileage and stuff like that. That was always something that I knew I was good at, but I didn’t know how to put it into motion. With iRacing, I was able to find that and then my Plan D would be, uh, broadcasting.

I do a lot of broadcasting with L SRT V with their main sim racing series. I help out with the Press Box Motorsports podcast. I’m very media forward so I can talk to people. My mom’s a communications major. I can talk your head off all night long. Where I see myself taking the next step as a driver is I’ve gotta get in a real car.

As much as you can learn from sim racing, that’s not gonna cover everything. I don’t know how a race transmission shifts. I don’t know how the clutch feels. I don’t know how all those things work inside the car, so I need to get in a car eventually. Hopefully that opportunity will rise soon. Like I said, the barriers right now are definitely the, the money involved, and I, I don’t wanna use that as an [00:09:00] excuse because it’s just part of the game.

It is what it is and we all accept that when we try to do this sport.

Crew Chief Eric: So which discipline do you see yourself starting in? Do you see yourself going down a path of dirt, oval, asphalt, round rounds? Are you thinking sports car? Are you thinking spec Miata? There’s a lot of different gateways into motorsport, whether it be oval track or road course.

What are you thinking?

Brockton Packard: You know, if you asked me this question a year and a half ago, my answer would be very straightforward and very simple. I’d go into the asphalt oval. The late models, limited lates, pro stocks, that kind of stuff. The short track feel. I like that. It’s fun racing and it would eventually lead into what I want to do, but recently through a a team that has partnered with niner eSports, it’s called Beaver Block.

We’ve run the Daytona 24, the Bathurst 12, and will be running the Sebring 12 here in a couple months. I’ve kind of shifted gears into that sports car kind of Miata realm, and I’ve found a new passion for that and it’s fun [00:10:00] because, You’re not having to worry about everybody around you. You gotta worry about your race and the different teams and stuff like that.

So it’s not as cut and dry as I would’ve hoped, but I’d be okay with running a Miata or something in the IMSA realm. The endurance racing is a fun challenge for me because NASCAR has our long races, the Coke 600, Daytona 500, but 12 hour races where you’re running six or more hours is just a. Different level of challenging.

I’m one that likes to go for the more challenging events. So I don’t know. That’s a good question and unfortunately I don’t really have an answer for it.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s take that a little bit further. What are your thoughts on the big races like the Rolex 24 or even Lamonts?

Brockton Packard: Oh yeah, I would love to run those. I did my first virtual Daytona 24.

This year, and that was just a different experience. I’ve never run my first lapse in a race three hours into a race already. That was just such a foreign field to me to get in the car that [00:11:00] already had damage. The field was already spread out, and I did 26 or 27 practice hours before that race. About five or 600 laps to get prepared mentally and physically for that race.

And we streamed that whole thing and we went through the paces and we finished 10th in our class. So we ran the B M W hybrid, that new B M W, and we finished 11th overall because we had a bit of a struggle. It was just such a fun experience because I didn’t take it as we had to win. I knew we weren’t going to, I took it as a learning experience, and then next year we’re gonna win.

Mountain Man Dan: When you were asked like, which discipline or direction you’d like to go, you opened a a key aspect there. Motor sports is such a wide spectrum and so many young people like yourself initially you think one thing’s what you want, but as you’ve come to experience other things, it’s opened your eyes like, Hey, I also like this.

That’s a big thing that I try to promote with kids, like, don’t pigeonhole yourself into one discipline or one thing that you like because that makes the whole motor sports world rather cliquey. I think as [00:12:00] a whole, motorsports we need to work together to get experience out there for people who’ve never been into it and everything.

And then a big thing I wanna give your mom kudos for is the way she had, you have multiple plans. So many people don’t realize without successful planning, you’re gonna set yourself up for failure. But you’ve had not just one backup at three backup options, which allow you to still be involved with motor sports, which is a great path forward for you.

Brockton Packard: Yeah, there’s always. A lot to motor sports and people always think it’s either you’re driving the car, you’re spotting the car, or you’re crew chiefing, and that there’s nothing else in between, which is kind of why I went into the mechanical engineering realm and all this kind of stuff.

Crew Chief Eric: You both bring up very valid points.

One that’s overarching here is that a lot of people fall victim to chasing just one dream. They have this dream, I wanna be a pro driver, I wanna be this. I wanna be that. Life is full of twists and turns and every pun and cliche that you can come up with along that journey. But what’s important is that you’re already recognizing there’s alternatives along that that you may or may not be [00:13:00] more interested in.

And that leads into what Dan was saying about motorsports is people don’t realize that there are sub-disciplines inside of the greater sanctioning bodies. Let’s just look at Formula One or looking at W R C or Sports Car and Endurance Racing. You can start to just dissect that. I’m a big Rally fan. But when I talk rally, what am I talking about?

I’m talking about, you know, group A, group B. Mm-hmm. That type of stuff, versus T one raid or Baja. And you know, again, there’s so many other things you can get into that you don’t have to hyperfocus on just one of them. So the doors are always open, and I’m glad you’re situationally where as we say, you know, in coaching, your eyes are up, you’re looking ahead and you’re thinking ahead.

If this doesn’t pan out, what’s next? But you’ve already dabbled a little bit in the racing world, right, Dan?

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah, so let’s talk about your experience as part of the R B R team. Like how did you get into it? What were some of your responsibilities with them and how long did you participate with the team?

Brockton Packard: Getting involved with them is kind of a funny story. It was 2021 my freshman year of [00:14:00] college. I was a band kid in high school and I did a a, a year of band in college and I just happened to get covid on our first game week. For our, our home opener for football. So I was stuck in a quarantine room, kind of just scrolling through Twitter and Instagram and stuff, and I saw a post pop up from R B R saying interns wanted and how to apply.

So I called my mom and said, Hey, you think I should go for this? It’s not paid. It’s experience only, but it’s experienced. She told me to go for it, so I filled out the information and I think within two or three days they called me back to have a phone interview and then they had me up at the shop a month later.

I was on board for that, and that was right around. November, so it was kind of the end of the season, so we just kind of cleaned the shop when I was first there. And then beginning of 2022, everything kind of started to ramp up. We had the fad Moffitt deal with the 43 s t P, the Richard Petty [00:15:00] colors on our truck, and then everything kind of snowballed.

I had just about every responsibility you could think of from going to Food Lion, the local. Grocery store to buy Gatorades and sodas for the race weekend to sweeping the shop, to ripping stuff off the truck when they didn’t come back in one piece. Lots of cleaning though. Something that you have to kind of get through your head is, everything’s important no matter what you do.

That was hard for me at first because I was like, man, I want to build stuff. I want to do things. I want to go, and I had to remember that I’m a 19 year old kid that has no experience on a race team, so I need to chill out and learn from everything. We went to Dinos, we did chassis pull downs. I learned so much and I was only there for six or seven months.

From being an interior guy to them taking me to Texas Motor Speedway for the summer race there, having my family and girlfriend there during that race, my first race on a crew, that was just another worldly experience. You know, you always have those [00:16:00] dreams of doing what you wanna do and then it happens and you’re like, holy crap.

I’m here, I’m doing this, I’m living out a dream. So just being able to do everything essentially on that race team has fulfilled so many bucket list items, but has also helped me continue my career.

Mountain Man Dan: I got a feeling it’s created many more bucket list items as well.

Crew Chief Eric: Plans. E, F, G, right? Yeah.

Brockton Packard: There’s a, there’s a few more backups now.

Mountain Man Dan: Tell me about your experience there in the pits during the race. Like how was that for you? For someone who’s never seen it, only seen it from tv, like explain that to people and the thrill that there was with that.

Brockton Packard: That was a wild weekend. So the truck race was on Friday, so we flew out Thursday at midnight.

From Charlotte and landed in Dallas at about three, four o’clock. So it was late. We were all tired as all get out and we fell asleep. Woke up at like seven, 8:00 AM went down to the track and walked through those garages. We all see those Bob Ris tweets where it’s, you know, sea of mechanics and engineers walking [00:17:00] through the front gates.

And I was like, okay. This is literally every crew chief and everybody who’s important, all in one little gaggle around the garage. We all walked in, we went to our holler, unloaded all the pit equipment first, and then we unloaded our two trucks, the 43 and 33 for that weekend. Got everything kind of set up.

Getting ready for tech. Tech was wild. I’ve never actually gone through tech before and it was just, you know, a long line with a bunch of people and you just kinda sat there and people would walk around, talk to you, say hi, and then you had to push the truck up like. 25 degree incline to get it up on the second inspection.

But like all good things, we failed the first time. We failed tech inspection the first time for a few different reasons, which we expected. You know, if your car doesn’t pass the first or second time, you got a little bit of an issue. But if you failed the first time, you know it’s something good, you got something going on.

’cause if you’re not cheating, you’re not winning. We pushed through tech and then we kind of just chilled for a little bit. Texas Modus Speedway is a bit of [00:18:00] a monster for the cruise because going from the garage to pit road, there’s a hill. We don’t turn the cars on for anything unless it’s on track, so you can’t just drive the car up the hill.

We had to push that thing up 20 feet, the hill, and it’s just a steady, kind all the way up. So they’re not the heaviest things in the world as fast as they go. A brick and a half for sure. So we went through practice. Unfortunately, our 33 truck wrecked in his first lap of practice, and then our 43 truck had an unimproved adjustment that got disqualified.

I think I’m not a hundred percent sure on that. So basically as soon as we were done with practice, we were all thrashing, welding, beaten body panels, straight rebuilding, basically the whole rear end of that race car to have at least one car in the race. We’re all running on two, three hours of sleep, maybe a little more if you slept on the plane.

It’s Texas during the summer, so it’s 110 degrees out. We’re all sweating. We’re just destroyed by the end of this thing. But we finally get it fixed. We get it [00:19:00] going, and we run the race, and I think we finished like 33rd or something, but it was such a sigh of relief when the car rolled off for the first time and we saw.

Everybody just go by checking the speed stuff. There’s so many things you miss on TV and there’s so many things you miss when you’re at the track. Being behind the scenes, having a crew shirt on, having those credentials, you see so much and it’s something that I never want to forget and I want to continue to do.

Mountain Man Dan: From your time with R B R, what would you say was one of the biggest things you learned from that experience?

Brockton Packard: Just the never give up attitude of that whole team. They’re an underfunded team. They had seven full-time employees when I was interning there, and they had eight interns, so the interns outmatched everybody who actually worked there.

Since then, that’s kind of changed and they’ve gone through some ups and downs. I’ve learned a couple things that I won’t say on air because there are a couple things I like to keep to myself.

Crew Chief Eric: See, you know, he is a car guy because once we figure out what that little thing is, we’re not gonna share it with anybody.

Yeah. Until we’ve beaten him six [00:20:00] ways from Sunday to the next race, then it all gets exposed. Right.

Brockton Packard: There’s a few things that I’ve learned here and there a few things of what not to do. A few things of what to do, like team dynamic. Always be close to your employees and even if they’re below you can’t act like they’re below you.

Having that family atmosphere is just so important because I. I woke up on Saturday morning and I could not stand up, and I was like, how the heck did I get through it? And it was just the positive reinforcement from everybody. Like, get up and go do your job and do it right and get rewarded type things.

They were awesome guys, and I, I love every single one of them to death because they’re the ones that gave me my first shot and never gonna forget that.

Crew Chief Eric: Somewhere in the mix of all this, based on your time with R B R and you had aspirations of being in nascar, now you’re choosing maybe plan. C. D, or E, somewhere along those lines.

You’ve also changed the courses that you’ve taken there at the University of Charlotte. So let’s talk about your university life a little bit. You mentioned that you’re in mechanical engineering, so how’s [00:21:00] that going? Is that still plan C?

Brockton Packard: Yeah, right now it’s still plan C. I’m gonna beat the horse to death on Plan A until it doesn’t go anymore.

But you know, having that engineering degree, and I’m also going to dual enroll as a communications student as well, be an engineer that can talk to people. That’s a very important thing, especially in the NASCAR and motorsports world. Being able to communicate what you wanna do and being able to. Also have the know-how to do it is something that is insurmountable when it comes to any motor sports, but especially nascar.

Mountain Man Dan: So what’s the good and the bad of the ME E program?

Brockton Packard: It’s a hard program. Not a lot of people get in it. It’s one of the highest contested programs at U N C C because we’re all here for the same reason. 20% of NASCAR engineers, NASCAR crew, and NASCAR crew chiefs. Come from U N C C. If you have a degree from here, you’re most likely going into a motor sports program.

Having that good G P A getting through the classes, you gotta [00:22:00] be pretty darn good at math. It’s pretty math heavy. I think I get all the way up to calculus four or something like that. It’s kind of ridiculous. There’s math that looks more like English sometimes, so having that competitive attitude, not taking a failure as a failure, but a learning experience, and then.

Finding ways to make a really hard degree a little bit easier is definitely advice and the good and bad.

Mountain Man Dan: Well, I’m sure especially with NASCAR there in North Carolina, that’s like the heart of where NASCAR began, so I’m sure that’s why everybody wants to be involved in that flocks to that areas.

Crew Chief Eric: Mooresville is known as nascar. U Ss a, right?

Brockton Packard: Yeah. Motorsports, U Ss a Mooresville, Concord. Even Statesville. There’s shops all over the place in North Carolina. It’s like you can’t go. More than 20 miles without seeing a, a little interstate sign with a Motorsports facility somewhere. I mean, you’ve got Hendrick Motorsports, track House, and Rush Fenway Klowski, all within about five or 10 miles of the U N C C campus.

Charlotte Motor Speedway’s five miles. Then you go to [00:23:00] Mooresville, junior Motorsports, Joe Gibbs, RBR R’s in Mooresville as well. Further out in Welcome North Carolina. You’ve got your RRCs, your Petty G m s. Wood Brothers is in Mooresville too. So there’s a whole bunch of teams, both Truck, Xfinity Cup, even late models and legends.

They’re all over the place here.

Mountain Man Dan: I grew up watching a lot of Monster Truck stuff and I know Dennis Anderson has hit his shop for the Grave Digger down there in North Carolina. Is that anywhere near Charlotte?

Brockton Packard: It’s about six hours from here. It’s funny you bring that up ’cause I’ve got a couple Monster Jam stories as well.

Growing up in Florida. They would go to Raymond James Stadium, it would always rain. The best mud shows of the year would happen in Tampa and year after year after year for my birthday. It would always happen around the same time. So we’d go watch the Monster Jam show and then one year. For some reason we came up to North Carolina and we went to their shop up in, I think it’s Kitty Hawk, and we walked in and this is, I don’t know, 2010, maybe 2009, and there’s a smaller version of Ryan [00:24:00] and Kristen Anderson and Adam Anderson all.

Out front running this RC car all around and we walk in and Dennis is just sitting there and we had lunch with all of them. It was just one of those weird meeting your hero moments because I, I absolutely loved the grave digger truck and I continue to follow that, but I’m more of a son of a digger now.

I like that blue paint scheme. That blue paint scheme’s got a special place in my heart. But no, the black and green wrecking machine bad to the bone all the way through gotta be some of the best moments. And there was a point in time where I wanted to be a monster truck driver, and then I realized those hits are pretty hard, so it might not be the best case for me.

Crew Chief Eric: So that is not a plan on the list of plans.

Brockton Packard: That is not a plan. It would be a cool experience, but definitely not something that I’m going to actively pursue.

Mountain Man Dan: So what are your thoughts on programs like Formula S A e

Brockton Packard: I was part of Formula s a e last year and a little bit of this year. I love those guys too.

Great hands-on experience, building more open wheel type [00:25:00] cars, but there’s still some things that definitely transfer over and it’s a huge resume builder saying that you were part of a S A E program, being able to. Continue with that program, be a team lead, even a driver. It gives you so much more notoriety than somebody with a piece of paper saying they know how to do math.

Kind of broadening your horizons throughout college, finding things that you might not think can connect to the world that you wanna be in. You wouldn’t think an open wheel race car would connect to a NASCAR team, but. Building that race car. They now know you have fabrication skills, the mechanical engineering needed for it, and the communications and team working skills to be able to work with the team and also help build a race car.

Mountain Man Dan: Are you aware of formula Baja?

Brockton Packard: I am aware. Unfortunately, U N C C doesn’t have a formula Baja. Right now they used to, it seems like every meeting we have, somebody calls out, bring back Baja, so it might come back. I’m not sure, but I do know of it and I’ve watched some wild YouTube videos of it too. [00:26:00]

Mountain Man Dan: So what types of motorsports organizations or clubs are you involved with currently?

Brockton Packard: Right now it’s a little bit of that s a E program and then. Majority focus is managing the iRacing team for the Niner eSports program that we have here.

Mountain Man Dan: Being in Charlotte have, have you been to the NASCAR Hall of Fame?

Brockton Packard: Oh yeah. It seems like I’m there every other month. I love their simulators. I love the history of it, and every time somebody’s visiting here, I always wanna take ’em there.

It’s like my Disney World. It’s that feel that you’re surrounded by history and it’s also kind of a goal. You know, not a lot of people get to go into the NASCAR Hall of Fame and be inducted and it’s always that Shoot for the stars and you’ll hit the moon type deal. Say you’re going into the Hall of Fame, maybe you might end up in a seat.

You never know, but I. I always like to tell myself walking through the doors one day I’ll be there for a different reason, but for now, I, I enjoy it as a tourist and a motorsports connoisseur.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it’s time we switch gears and we need to talk about one of your other favorite topics, which is [00:27:00] sim racing.

Thanks to Covid Sim racing in all its different forms, quickly became 10 times more popular than it ever had been, and it still seems to be on the rise. So let’s get some of your thoughts.

Brockton Packard: That kind of explosion in 2020 and 2021 was a weird. Shift in the iRacing world, we were always big and we always had our big events.

You know, the Koch series, which used to be the peak series and the NASCAR realm of iRacing always had big prize pools and stuff like that. But once they did the Pro Invitational and nationally televised it, All of these cup drivers, indie car drivers, all these guys were getting on the sim. It really made it less of a game for the general public and made it known that this isn’t something you just mess around with on a Sunday night because you think you can.

This is something that people use and people are able to do as a tool, and it gives you that experience without actually having to do anything. Personally, iRacing is still the best [00:28:00] sim out there. The quality of their updates and things like that. Second to none in my book. I like how the physics work, how it feels, how it drives, what I can feel through the steering wheel and pedals.

I like their NASCAR program and their road course stuff as well. But I know there’s a couple things that we don’t have. We don’t have rain, we don’t have flat spotting tires. We know those are coming and we know that they’ll be top class once they get here. There’s a whole bunch of different avenues to go, but I try to stay away from things like Ran Ismo or Forza, and I know that might hurt a little bit for some people, but I don’t like that arcade feel anymore.

I like being able to feel the car and understand the car and not just slamming the joystick left and right or not being able to feel through the steering wheel for me. iRacing is definitely still number one on my list. We’re still. Skyrocketing in players and new accounts, rejoining accounts, and laps turned.

I think we turned the 5000000000th lap on iRacing a couple months ago, and that number is [00:29:00] just gonna continue to rise. With our most recent update. We had the, I think a Reno Cleo. A Formula Ford 1600 and then the new late model stock car just came down, so I know there’s gonna be a lot of people running it at the point of recording.

Crew Chief Eric: Having been in motorsports for a long time and coming up through the video game generation myself. Pretty much born with a controller in my hand. I’ve seen the evolution of video games, and we’ve had other people on the show to talk about that and where the future is, and they’re like, all right, old man screaming at the clouds, you know, what do you talk about?

I’m like, look, I’ve been here since the beginning. I think the biggest complaints, those of us that have experienced on track with sim racing say, is, It doesn’t translate driving with your eyes, despite even the best, most expensive rig doesn’t feel like being in the car. You don’t have the G-force, you don’t have the lateral forces.

You don’t have any of this kind of stuff. And you see some of these extremely complicated rigs where they’re bouncing up and down and doing all this gyroscopic stuff and you’re like, cars [00:30:00] don’t do that. They just, they don’t,

Mountain Man Dan: Eric, I know how technically minded you are and having the amount of experience you have in cars, like I do it myself and I’m not near as experienced on track as you are, but I’ll notice playing certain simulators or games, it’s like, yeah, that doesn’t feel like it would in real life.

So I wonder if a lot of the young guys your age, Brock, that haven’t had much seat time in real cars aren’t able to pick up on that and what you guys consider to be more legit. I’m curious if you would get more seat time if you would start to be like, That’s not actually how this happens.

Brockton Packard: That’s kind of how it would work.

If I had actual experience behind the wheel of a car, I could feel what the car is supposed to feel like. And like I was saying earlier, I don’t have experience behind the wheel of a real race car. I have go-kart experience, but we don’t have go-karts, so I can’t say. Yeah, that’s exactly like the go-kart.

I’m driving a cup cart. I don’t know what that feels like. I know what it looks like. It feels like. I know what that independent rear suspension should do based off of working on it, but I don’t know what it actually does. So I’m sure that there’s [00:31:00] a difference in the real versus sim, and I’m sure that with more real world time behind the wheel of a race car, any race car, I’d be able to pick up on those differences, whether subtle or drastic, and go, Hey, that’s not at all what that feels like or, Yeah, that’s pretty similar.

With more time behind the wheel, I’d maybe lose my rose colored lenses, but right now it’s the best thing since sliced bread. ’cause I don’t know any better.

Crew Chief Eric: But it brings up a real life question. I’m sure you’ve raced Seabring many times. I racing, but you’ve been at Sebring in a race car. How does it really compare?

Brockton Packard: Memories are a little fuzzy, but I do remember a lot of the bumps and a lot of the corners and a lot of stuff like that. Unfortunately, iRacing doesn’t have a street spec, Porsche nine 11 that I can just rip around there, but it does a pretty darn good job. Yeah, the graphics of some of the peripherals aren’t great.

And the people look like they’re from a Nintendo 64 game. The drivability of the [00:32:00] track, the aggressiveness of those curbs that are there, they’re pretty spot on. In my opinion. Sunset is the Bumpiest corner in the world in real life, and it’s the Bumpiest corner in I racing too. Most of my experience at Sebring is in a hypercar or a hybrid, so it’s a little bit of a different world just in that sense.

Personally, I was able to jump in sim and know my lines and know my breaking points and know things like that just based on that experience I had, you know, 10, 15 years ago.

Crew Chief Eric: The upside is when it comes to training guys that have been on simulators, you know where the turns go, so I don’t have to tell you that the next turn at v i R is a left to be like, wait, it’s a left.

It’s very different when you’re training people that haven’t had the lapse, but the one thing. I’ve experienced with people that have come from simulators, they learn quickly, but when they get out of the car, they’re like, that’s nothing like what I expected. That’s usually the response I get from my students that have never really driven on track before.

Brockton Packard: I try not to take everything [00:33:00] literal when I’m driving the race car, I try to know the line in a little bit of the tendency with the physics engine, but I know it’s not real and I know that air moves how air wants to move, and it’s not something that. We can code to move how it should because it’s not always the same.

So I think learning the tracks that I’ve never driven before, like I’m in Charlotte, I’ve never lived in Virginia, so I have no idea what Virginia looks like. And I don’t know what V R R looks like. But I ran a hybrid race at V I R a month ago, so I know what the track looks like and I know how to drive it, and I know that I should be set up on the wide side coming and turned one so I can get a good run into turn.

Two. It’s knowing the feel of the track so you can go on there and not have that. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I’m driving a race car on a racetrack, driving a race car. Don’t mess up. Don’t mess up. You can be confident in having the mental stability so you can work on the physical.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s a give and take even in real life, you know?

Absolutely. I wish I could do what I do in the sim world, but you can’t. Right. Some of it is, it feels like cheating physics and whatnot. That [00:34:00] actually begs the question too, about the discipline of motorsport you’re focused on in the sim world, and I think it’s an overarching conversation about the most popular.

Disciplines inside of iRacing and that I still think is asphalt oval. Right?

Brockton Packard: Absolutely. The NASCAR and the short track community in iRacing is one of the biggest in any form of motor sport because it is so limited everywhere else. You’ve got the NASCAR heat games in the NASCAR ignition games that are coming out, which are widely.

Dislike. I hate to say it because I know people spend time and money and work on those as their blood, sweat, and tears, but they’re not what they used to be. And people are starting to see that and starting to search for something to really figure out what they want. If they want to go into a sports car realm or a dirt realm, or stay in the asphalt realm.

So I think they come to iRacing, they see that we’ve got almost every generation of stock car from the 1987. For [00:35:00] Thunderbird Buick and Chevy Impala, or it’s the Monte Carlo, excuse me. And then you’ve got the old cots, the gen sixes, and now the new next gens with the Xfinity Series, the Cup Series and the Trek series.

And then you’ve got all of your short track stuff, your legends cars, your silver crown cars, street stocks. We’ve got all those different. Professions of oval racing, people start to go to that because, oh, it’s the car I run in real life. At the track I run in real life. Let me go work on that. I know there’s a few guys that are going to Southern national that are running southern national with this new late model car because they can’t get practice time at the actual track.

There’s a lot of exclusivity with the oval racing side of it because we can’t really go anywhere else. A c C doesn’t have any oval stuff. There’s no outlet for us. So we all come here and we all have fun and bash and wreck and flip and all that kind stuff, but we also take it very seriously. The money’s good in here.

If you can get [00:36:00] to the top 40 in the NASCAR side, you can join the Coke series, which has a hundred thousand dollars prize pool at the end of the season, plus you get a. Big trophy at the end of it too, so that’s pretty good. It all comes down to how much time are you willing to spend on it, and how much time do you have to spend on it, because it takes a lot to get to that point, and it takes a lot of effort to get good enough to get to there.

Mountain Man Dan: For people that are looking to get into it, is there a used market out there? Would you tell them to potentially go buy something used or, or do you recommend buy a new right off the bat?

Brockton Packard: Especially if you haven’t done it before? So iRacing can be a monthly, yearly, bimonthly try monthly subscription if you’re gonna try iRacing.

You buy the $13 monthly subscription for one month. You go out to your retro gaming store or eBay or something and you find a cheap wheel that has some force feedback with pedals, and you slap that sucker on your desk and you download Ira saying, You got a 50 to $60 piece right there and you understand what you like [00:37:00] about it, what you don’t like about it, and then figure out if that’s something you want to continue doing and continue working on throughout your, I guess, career we can call it.

But I wouldn’t go full bore and just dump a bunch of money into it. Money doesn’t necessarily buy performance and buys comfort in this realm. Of course, there’s things that will help you. A direct drive wheel helps, and the vibrating pedals help being able to catch things that you wouldn’t be able to do.

Through your head and headset and through looking at the screen, but it’s not something you need right off the bat. That’s something you need after you’ve perfected your racecraft, your lines and kind of understand the race engine that you are using.

Crew Chief Eric: If you don’t get totally frustrated and cancel your subscription before that point.

Yes, exactly. There’s another side to this. It’s kind of an interesting side. When you look at eSports as a whole, sort of, as a, either a profession or even as a sport itself, there’s an actual debate as to whether or not sim racing is even considered an eSport. Because motor sports, a lot of times is not considered a [00:38:00] sport.

So when you look at the list of the top 10 in 2023, eSports, I’ll read off the titles here. None of these, in my opinion, are sports at all. We’ve got things like League of Legends, go to two Counterstrike, Fortnite, call of Duty, Overwatch, Valant, rainbow Six, rocket League, and Hearthstone. Nowhere on that list.

Is iRacing. Why?

Brockton Packard: You know, it’s such an interesting question because just in our experience at Niner eSports, our iRacing program is our youngest program. We didn’t have an iRacing program up until November, so this is all a very new program for them, and it was a new world that they didn’t know about.

Most of that is just look at your mainstream media. It’s Call of Duty, Valant League of Legends. Those are your more widespread known titles. There’s skill involved with it, but it’s less of a learning curve and more of a point and shoot, or there’s strategies that everybody knows. I racing or sim racing in general is something that takes time to [00:39:00] understand and time to learn, rather than picking up a controller and playing through a couple levels and then knowing what to do.

I racing and sim racing in general is a hundred percent in eSport. We’ve got some of the bigger competitions. We’ve got some of the bigger traction when it comes to what we’re aligned with. But I will say, I don’t know if you guys saw this, so they came out with this E Olympics and there’s nowhere on there.

Is any of those 10 games? There’s no League of Legends, no Call of Duty, no Overwatch, no Valant. In those E Olympics. Well, why is that? Because they’re doing all these sports titles. Of course, they have to choose Grand Primo as the SIM racing representative, which I was a grand tri kid growing up, raced a lot of that, and I love the titles, but they’re not as good as a set of Corsa or.

I racing. So they could have probably done something with iRacing or a set of Corsa, but we’re represented in the e Olympics, which, who knows how that’s gonna be? So I think we’re getting more and more recognition [00:40:00] and representation. Covid helped, wasn’t a great point in our history, but it definitely helped a lot in the sim racing and the eSports world in general.

So hopefully one day we’ll be up there. But I think there’s just such a saturation of those 10 games. You can say, call of Duty and everybody’s played a Call of Duty game. You can talk about that with a bunch of people. So I think it’s just there’s so much saturation of those. Titles out there that it’s hard for other titles like iRacing or a set of Corsa to kind of catch up.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned something earlier about getting ready for these races, and we had this conversation back in season one when we had Tucker Boner, who most people may know and recognized from Twitch as Jericho. He was also on chasing the crown on Amazon Prime. And so we discussed this with him and he said, you know, going into eSports and doing this professionally, there’s a lot of.

Actual conditioning and training that has to occur. So what do you do to physically prepare for some of these races?

Brockton Packard: I mean, a lot of people will say that there’s [00:41:00] 90% mental and a 10% physical attribute to sim racing because you are staring at a screen knowing that there’s no physical thing that’s going to happen to you.

But you know that if you do one wrong move, your entire race is over. Physically, we just run laps constantly. I’ll use, for example, our Daytona 24. Attempt that we did for about a month and a half. I did nothing but the Daytona Road course in that B M W V eight hybrid. That was the only thing I ran for a month and a half on iRacing, putting in laps and laps and laps, understanding the car, understanding the track, understanding how to deal with traffic, both getting past and passing slower cars.

Physical side of it is just muscle memory. When you’re driving a race that long, or any race, you don’t wanna second guess yourself. When you fly into the bus stop or when you go around turn one at Bristol, you don’t wanna second guess yourself. That should be second nature. You want to be able to think about what the person in front of you is gonna do, what the person behind you is gonna do, where are you on the track, that kind of thing.

[00:42:00] So physically it’s. Learning the track, learning the car, being comfortable enough that you can put yourself in some sticky situations. Kind of that mental aspect is just putting yourself in those mentally strenuous places. When you’re three wide, on the bottom in Talladega, or three wide in the middle at Talladega, you’ve gotta put yourself in some really crappy positions and you’ve gotta make a lot of mistakes.

To be able to trust yourself enough to go three wide, go four wide, go around the outside, do random moves that would help you win races and stuff like that. And that’s something that comes with time. I’m not even going to lie to you guys. I’m not there yet. I second guess myself all the time because I’ve done some bonehead moves and wrecked a bunch of people.

There’s always that doubt. You’ve kind of gotta quiet those inner voices of doubt and be able to lock in and just focus solely on your car and understand that you can only control your race. So most of it’s a mental training, I guess reaction times. [00:43:00] Just throw a ball around every once in a while. I don’t know it.

It’s sim racing.

Crew Chief Eric: Well that’s funny you say that. ’cause back in our day, us old guys here, Dan and I remember, you know the land parties and we would get our case of balls guana, remember that stuff? So there’s a whole nutrition aspect. Back to this too. And there’s a lot of things you have to look at in terms of repetitive stress conditions, fatigue, you know, mental duress, things like that.

And so what do you do again, on that physical side? How do you change your diet? Do you work out, you know, how do you get prepped for these longer races?

Brockton Packard: I try to work out every other couple of days. I’m not a huge gym rat. I’m five foot four and 125 pounds, so there’s not much of me to go around in the physical side of the world.

Go to the gym, lift some weights. Your arms are gonna be just dead by the time you’re done with a couple hours of racing. For our Daytona 24, I ran the second most out of our six drivers, and I ran four and a half hours. I [00:44:00] think by the end of that, my legs were shot, my arms were shot, and I didn’t have everything turned up.

I had everything kind of turned down to where I could be comfortable for that long. So just putting yourself in an uncomfortable position, like holding a. 10 pound dumbbell in front of your face for five, 10 minutes. Just having that endurance, not necessarily raw strength, but the endurance, getting as much sleep as you can.

The team that we ran with, their team captain and I stayed up basically 12 hours each for that. We didn’t take care of ourselves as well as we should have, but being able to just push through the tiredness, not make those mistakes, and just. Be able to understand what your body is telling you and what you can do, because if you push yourself too hard, you’re gonna start making mistakes and you’re gonna cost not only yourself, but the team, an opportunity

Crew Chief Eric: monster or Red Bull,

Brockton Packard: neither.

Actually, I’m not a energy drink guy. I try to stay away from the caffeine just because my body decides that it’s gonna go on a huge spike. Like five minutes and then it just plummets within 10 or [00:45:00] 15. So it doesn’t work for me. I try to just stay hydrated. Gatorade, right now we’re drinking the body armors.

Those are pretty good, but I can’t drink a lot of them. Basically two bottles of water and a Gatorade for when I’m not in the car. And then I’ll have a, a water bottle with a hole poked in it when I’m driving.

Crew Chief Eric: If we wanted to get somebody convinced to come over to SIM racing, to get away from what we call the Sim Cs, like Forza and Grant Smo and some of the other games, how would you convince someone to become part of eSports?

How would you tell them that it’s just not another video game?

Brockton Packard: I wouldn’t say a darn thing. I’d put ’em in front of the wheel and tell ’em to. Try and drive it. That was the fun thing for me. We announced the iRacing team to the Niner eSports programs and the U N C C, and then we had a LAN event two or three weeks after, and I brought my sim ring and my computer and all of that.

I brought everything there. I ran laps and people said, oh, I could do that. And I said, really? Go right ahead. And every person that said, I could do that, couldn’t do it. Proving somebody that it’s more than [00:46:00] just an arcade game, that it’s harder than you think. The guys that go, oh, I played Forza and I played Grand Tribo, that’s great, but you haven’t run a simulator yet, so come on down, sit in the sim and experience it.

If it’s something that you laugh at or have fun with, then you’re hooked from there. Explaining it is such a hard thing to do when somebody already has it in their head that it’s just a video game, that they don’t understand that these are broadcasted events, that there’s leagues, that there’s cash prizes involved with this.

They have to do it themselves. They have to try it, and I’m not saying going out and spending that money or maybe spend a small amount of money for it by yourself. The Daytona and the arc of car, if you’re a NASCAR person and run that. Those are great cars to run on that track. 13 bucks, run it and see if you like it.

If you’re in the Charlotte area, go to the Hall of Fame race, iRacing at the Hall of Fame. They give you that opportunity. It shows you what iRacing can be. You can’t explain it because it’s something that is so skewed in the [00:47:00] minds of people that don’t know about it. It’s just fake news basically. When somebody who hasn’t tried it talks about it, so.

Go ahead and try it first. See what you can do with it. See if you like it, and if not, then it’s not for you. But if you do like it, then you found yourself a fun little sim to run on.

Mountain Man Dan: When we spoke to you originally and you sent over the link for the Twitch stream that you guys had for the race just prior to that, I went on watched it and with the exception of the graphics being obviously, you know, very video game, it was seriously like sitting in front of the tv.

Watching a NASCAR race on a Sunday with the commentating, with watching the different views from the different cars and stuff. I was very impressed with how well that was done.

Brockton Packard: Everybody on iRacing tries to treat it as more than just a game. If you say it’s just a video game, bro, on the iRacing chats, people will start light you up because it’s not a video game.

Never say it’s a video game to somebody who is a hardcore I racer. ’cause you will never speak to them again because it [00:48:00] is not a video game, it’s a simulator. As a generalization, it is a video game. It’s something that you play on a PC with video game materials, but it’s a tool to help simulations and stuff like that.

But we try to keep it as professional as we can, especially on the broadcasts and things like that. So having that professionalism, that TV feel like you’re watching a late model stock race on a Wednesday night. That’s what we’re trying to do.

Mountain Man Dan: So for the podcast that you co-host, uh, press Box Motorsport Podcast, what’s it about?

How often do you guys release it? Why should people tune into it? And are there any upcoming spoilers?

Brockton Packard: The Press Box Motorsports Podcast is a podcast that is hosted by Charles Wooten and I from L S R tv. We mostly talk about the sim racing world and we dabble a little bit in the real racing. People should tune in to see the news and the.

Different leagues and events that not only L S RT V is hosting, but also iRacing itself, myself, being not only a team manager [00:49:00] but also a racer will, you’ll get inside scoops on different types of leagues that my team is running in. And then also some special guests. I think our next guest, uh, is a Coke series driver, so a professional driver who got his first win on Daytona, so be on the lookout for that one.

He is also a team member of the Niner eSports program as well. So we do a thing or two about the real world stuff, but it’s mainly a sim racing podcast.

Mountain Man Dan: Well, speaking of which, what is next for Brock?

Brockton Packard: Yeah, so it, it’s funny you guys ask that because I’m actually going up to the Jordan Anderson racing shop up in Statesville, which we’ve been in talks for a few weeks now, and most likely working with them, working with their 31 Xfinity program.

Which is another reason why Chevy’s, my favorite manufacturer, being able to work with them. I’ll, I’ll take more of an engineer role, higher data, keeping everything sorted at the shop, uh, making sure everybody knows their inventory and things like that. And then working closely with their crew chief for the [00:50:00] 31 on Race notes setups throughout the weekend.

Crew Chief Eric: Well. Brock, it’s come to that point in the show where we’ve run out of plans and we need to know if you have any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover.

Brockton Packard: Yeah, of course. I’ve got a shout out my mom and dad for always supporting me and getting me to where I am now.

You can find me at Brockton P on Instagram. On Twitter, it’s Brockton Packard, and then on Twitch, it’s Brockton P 24 for all the weekly racing and stuff that we do. Follow Niner eSports on Twitter, Instagram. Facebook watch NASCAR on Sundays, Fridays, and Saturdays.

Mountain Man Dan: If you want to keep up with Brock and all of his progress, be sure to follow him, as you mentioned on social media at Brockton P on Instagram, or at Brockton Packard on Twitter.

Tune into his podcast, the Press Box Motorsports podcast everywhere. You listen to all your podcasts or chat with him on the GTM Discord server and tune into his races via live streams at Twitch tv slash. Brockton P [00:51:00] 24.

Crew Chief Eric: Brock, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Break Fixx, having a healthy debate about sim racing and eSports, but also sharing your plans for your future with us.

They’re very well thought out and we wish you the best of luck. And I hope one day you look back like Hannibal from the A team with the cigar and your mouth and say,

Mountain Man Dan: I love ’em when a plan comes together.

Brockton Packard: Hey, man, it’s, it’s been a great time and I’m so thankful for you guys having me on here and yeah, it was super fun, guys.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the plan, and he’s sticking to it. Yeah,

Brockton Packard: man, I, I got a plan for everything.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right listeners. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our Patreon for a follow on pit stop mini episode. So check that out on www.patreon.com/gt motorsports and get access to all sorts of behind the scenes content from this episode and more.

Crew Chief Brad: If you [00:52:00] like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about G T M, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.

You can also find us on Instagram at grantor Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief@gtmotorsports.org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge.

As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and G T M swag. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, gummy bears, and monster.[00:53:00]

Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Guest Introduction: Brockton Packard
01:40 Brockton’s Early Motorsports Influences
02:46 Hands-On Experience with Jeeps
04:20 First Encounters with Racing
06:40 Choosing a Path in Motorsports
13:54 Internship with RBR Team
20:54 University Life and Future Plans
23:17 Monster Truck Memories
26:00 Motorsports Involvement and NASCAR Hall of Fame
26:55 The Rise of Sim Racing During COVID-19
27:58 iRacing: The Ultimate Sim Racing Experience
29:37 Real vs. Sim: The Driving Experience
34:11 The Popularity of Asphalt Oval Racing in iRacing
36:21 Getting Started with iRacing
37:45 Sim Racing as an eSport
40:54 Physical and Mental Preparation for Sim Racing
45:16 Convincing Others to Try Sim Racing
48:25 The Press Box Motorsports Podcast
49:25 Future Plans and Shoutouts
51:40 Conclusion and Listener Engagement

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Learn More

Check out some of the Live Coverage from LSRTV!

Follow Brock’s races on Twitch

If you want to keep up with Brock and all his progress be sure to follow him on social @Brocktonp on instagram and @Brocktonpackard on twitter. Tune into his podcast: The Pressbox Motorsports Podcast everywhere you listen and you can even chat with him on our GTM Discord Server and tune-into his races via livestreams on Twitch at twitch.tv/Brocktonp24

Today, Brockton leads the iRacing team for Niner eSports at UNC Charlotte. His love for driving—whether in go-karts, RC cars, or simulators – has evolved into a multi-pronged motorsports career plan:

Plan A: Become a race car driver.
Plan B: Work on race cars (he’s already done that).
Plan C: Spotting and crew chiefing.
Plan D: Broadcasting and media.

Sim racing has sharpened his skills in strategy, spotting, and fuel calculations. His first virtual Daytona 24 was a masterclass in preparation: 26 hours of practice, 500+ laps, and a top-10 finish in class. “Next year, we’re going to win,” he says with conviction.

Real-World Racing: Interning with Reaume Brothers Racing

Brockton’s first hands-on racing experience came through an internship with Reaume Brothers Racing (RBR), a small but scrappy NASCAR Truck Series team. From sweeping the shop to rebuilding wrecked trucks, Brockton did it all. His first race as a crew member at Texas Motor Speedway was a whirlwind of exhaustion, heat, and adrenaline – but also a dream come true. “I woke up Saturday and couldn’t stand up,” he recalls. “But the team’s energy kept me going. That family atmosphere is everything.”

Engineering Dreams and Communication Skills

At UNC Charlotte, Brockton is pursuing a dual degree in mechanical engineering and communications. His goal? To be an engineer who can talk to people – a rare and valuable skill in motorsports. With 20% of NASCAR engineers coming from UNCC, he’s in the right place.

He’s also involved in Formula SAE, building open-wheel race cars and gaining fabrication experience. Though UNCC doesn’t currently offer Formula Baja, Brockton’s enthusiasm suggests he’d jump at the chance.

Brockton visits the NASCAR Hall of Fame often, calling it his “Disney World.” He dreams of one day walking through those doors not as a tourist, but as an inductee. Until then, he’s building his resume through sim racing, real-world experience, and a relentless pursuit of every opportunity motorsports has to offer.

Brockton Packard’s story is a testament to the power of curiosity, adaptability, and grit. Whether he’s pushing a truck up a hill at Texas Motor Speedway or strategizing fuel mileage in iRacing, he’s living proof that motorsports isn’t just about driving – it’s about passion, preparation, and finding your place in a vast and thrilling world.

Stay tuned for more from Brockton and the Break/Fix Podcast as we continue to explore the living history of motorsports, one story at a time.

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

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What Should I Buy? – The Ultimate 1980s Hatchback Debate

Eric M

September 5, 2023

What Should I Buy? – The Ultimate 1980s Hatchback Debate

Welcome back to another raucous round of What Should I Buy? – the podcast where our panel of break-fix petrol heads tackle the weirdest, wildest car-buying challenges imaginable. This time, we’re diving headfirst into the glorious excess of the 1980s, a decade where greed was good, Jordache jeans rode high, and Aquanet held hair – and hopes – skyward.

Our mission: help a first-time collector find the perfect 1980s vehicle that will make their friends say either “Where did you get that?” or “What the hell is wrong with you?” at the next Cars & Coffee. But there’s a twist: we’re settling a long-standing argument about hatchbacks. What’s the real difference between a shooting brake, liftback, hatchback, wagon, and sports coupe?

The ’80s were a glorious juxtaposition of analog grit and digital dreams. MTV, killer bee body kits, and square bodies with round headlights defined the era. It was the birth of the GTI, the rise of the Fox Body Mustang, and the golden age of homologation specials. Our panelists: Mark Shank, Don Weberg, William Ross, Mountain Man Dan, Jeff Willis, Tania, and host Brad – each brought their own slice of nostalgia to the table.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

From Jeff’s straight-piped Porsche 928 to Tania’s immaculate Audi Coupe GT, the garage roll call was pure retro gold. William confessed his love for the notchback Mustang and even admitted to owning a Fiero. Don, our resident DeLorean whisperer, reminded us why stainless steel and gullwing doors still reign supreme. And Dan tugged heartstrings with his low-slung ’82 Chevy truck, rebuilt in memory of his brother.

What even is a hatchback? Our panel dove deep into the semantics:

A shooting brake? A hatchback with no C-pillar.
A liftback? Think Scirocco or 944—angled glass, not vertical.
A notchback? A sedan with a trunk, not a hatch.
A wagon? A three-box design with a D-pillar.

Turns out, the 1980s were a buffet of body styles. From the Camaro’s liftback glass to Tania’s GT Coupe with its funky trunk, the lines blur fast. And don’t even get us started on the European definitions – Mercedes calls everything a shooting brake, apparently.

Shopping Criteria

In this episode, the Break/Fix panel dives deep into the world of 1980s cars, engaging in a lively debate about the best vehicles for a first-time collector. The goal is to find a unique car that will either make friends exclaim, ‘Where did you get that?’ or question, ‘What the hell is wrong with you?’. The 80s, a decade known for its greed-is-good mentality, big hair, and revolutionary music and sci-fi, was also a transformative period for the automotive industry. Iconic cars and the juxtaposition of analog and digital technology shaped this era. The panel, comprising veterans Mark Shank, Don Weberg, William Ross, Mountain Man Dan, Jeff Willis, and executive producer Tania, kick things off by sharing their favorite personal 80s vehicles. They debate hot hatches, convertibles, sports coupes, and even delve into the world of obscure, often forgotten 80s cars. The discussions range from European classics like the Porsche 928 and Mercedes G-Wagon to true American muscle cars and quirky imports. Nostalgia, unique body designs, and a range of performance options form the crux of their debate. The episode caps off with each panelist choosing their ultimate 80s car given an unlimited budget, covering everything from Lamborghini Countach to the Saab 900 Turbo.

Ok we all know the drill…. 50/100/Infinity those are our price points. Avoid the obvious cars… What are the boundaries 1978 – 1994/5?
We’ve said in plenty of prior episodes we have to be a little more elastic on the year ranges because some of the best cars from the 80s started in the 70s, but also carried through to the 90s. Case in point the Porsche 928.
Since we’re going to debate the difference between: Hatch, Lift, Wagon, Shooting Brake and Sports Coupe; I think all of our “exceptions” are going to fall out of that discussion – so let’s go!
More specifically… What is a Hot Hatch?
The 80s was the era of “Homologation Cars” – thanks to WRC!

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to the Panel and the 80s Car Culture
01:16 Debating Hot Hatches and Body Styles
02:12 Personal Stories of 80s Car Ownership
05:14 Exploring Unique 80s Cars and Trucks
33:27 The French Car Invasion
39:00 Obscure 80s Cars and Hidden Gems
40:42 The ASC McLaren Capri and Mustang Evolution
41:39 Convertible Craze of the 80s
42:31 The Rise of Affordable Classics
42:43 The Iconic M81 Mustang
45:54 Audi’s Experimental Era
48:40 The AMG Hammer and Other German Legends
55:45 American Muscle and Tuners
01:03:12 The Underrated 80s Sedans
01:11:52 Japanese Icons and Oddities
01:22:35 Nissan Maxima vs. Infinity Q45
01:23:06 The Power of the Q45
01:23:46 Nissan’s Branding Challenge
01:25:08 Lexus SC 400 vs. SC 300
01:26:20 Toyota Century: The Ultimate Japanese Luxury
01:30:23 British Car Gems: TVR Tasmin and Austin Minis
01:32:46 Aston Martin’s 80s Revival
01:33:33 Lotus Esprit: The 80s Supercar
01:36:53 The Quirky Saab 900 Turbo
01:44:52 BMW’s Underrated Classics
01:51:41 Ford’s Sleeper: The LTD LX
01:55:49 80s Car Wishlist: Final Thoughts

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Our panel of break fix Petrolhead are back for another rousing. What should I buy? Debate using unique shopping criteria. They’re challenged to find our first time collector, the best vehicle that will make their friends go. Where do you get that? Or, what the hell is wrong with you at the next cars and coffee?

Crew Chief Eric: Heralded as one of the greatest decades in history when greed was good, Jordash jeans were worn above the belly button, hair stood on end with aid from Aquanet. Bands like Depeche Mode ushered in a new generation, and a next generation of sci-fi was also born. Cars were seen also as superheroes. This.

It’s the only time where there is a juxtaposition of both analog and digital. While a generation of Petrolheads were both living their best lives and early adopters simultaneously,

Crew Chief Brad: the malaise era might have been the start of the square bodies and round headlights movement. Oh, the eighties. That was the era of M T [00:01:00] V Killer Bees body kits and a massive evolution in the automotive industry where arguably some of the iconic cars of our generation were born and carry on through today.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, Brad. And like all good, what should I buy? Episodes. We have some shopping criteria. This time we’re gonna settle a long standing argument about hot hatches. What is the actual difference between a shooting break, Liftback hatchback wagon, or a sports coupe? Our panel of Petrolhead are challenged to solve that mystery as well as find our first time collector, the best econo box that will make their friends go, where’d you get that at?

The next cars and coffee?

Crew Chief Brad: Picking up where we left off The year is 1983 and there is no Corvette, but instead, the world is introduced to G T I. Joining us tonight, our veteran, what should I buy, panelists, our nineties expert, mark Shank, Don Weiberg from Garage Style Magazine. William Ross from Exotic Car Marketplace.

Bow Tie Man and Square Body Historian [00:02:00] Mountain Mandan. And returning guest Jeff Willis, along with our executive producer Tanya. Welcome to the show, everyone. Let’s go retro. This is the real eighties on eight.

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks, Brad. All of us here either have lived with, enjoyed, or still own an eighties vehicles.

Let’s set the mood with a little bit of a round table talking about our favorite personal eighties vehicles and maybe in our fleet. And Dan, you’re limited to only one fair warning that you gotta pick your favorite square body out of all those years. So why don’t we kick it off with newcomer

Jeff Willis: Jeff Willis.

Well, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here in my fleet right now. I’ve got a 1980 Porsche 9 28. It’s straight piped. It’s totally got the race livery on it, but it’s all road legal pretty much. So I’ll leave that to whatever you want to think about that.

Mark Shank: We’ll have to scrub the recording.

Jeff Willis: Yeah, right.

Crew Chief Brad: California officials are on looking for you right now.

Jeff Willis: The eighties are my jam. [00:03:00] My very first car was a 1986 Camaro, and I know that we’re not supposed to talk about those, but other than that, I have a whole list of wish cars that I’ll be talking about at some point during the podcast today. Another

Crew Chief Eric: man of the eighties.

Mr. William Ross. What you got for us?

William Ross: Well, I, anything in my current fleet that’s from the eighties, but I’m a big fan of the Fox Body Mustangs, but I like the five liter notch back. My man. My man. Nice undercover, you know, low key doesn’t have all the flares, that kind of stuff on the GT version of it, but just a nice five speed, five liter notch.

Back.

Crew Chief Eric: A little birdie told me you also owned a Fiero at one point.

William Ross: Heck yeah, I did. I had a fi, here’s how it started in my eighties. My first car was a Mazda G l c hatchback. Beat the living crud outta that thing, jumping over railroad tracks and stuff like that. Then I moved to my firo gt, loved that car.

I think it was great, you know, a little go-kart. And then I had my Mustang GT had an 85 GT free, you know, all the flares and stuff on it. So it was kind of nice hatchback, but had that through into [00:04:00] college. So yeah, I had my fair share of fun stuff in the eighties. Tanya,

Executive Producer Tania: my eighties car is in the photo right there and in my garage at the moment, 1985 Audi Coop gt,

Crew Chief Eric: well maintained and fully restored on the exterior.

And the interior is a pretty immaculate, too great car.

Don Weberg: Tanya, I gotta say, when you popped up and that little gt was sitting back there, my heart literally did stop for a second because I was practically raised in one of those things. My uncle was horse Audi dealership owner, and he liked the Audis ’cause they were a little more conservative.

And so he always drove these gray or dark silver Audi four-door sedans. And then one day he shows up with that. The year is 1987, the month is April and Uncle Howard is getting down in his seventies and he’s feeling youthful again and he wants to relive his second childhood. And that was the car. He was, by God going to do it in, couldn’t get out of its own way thanks to an automatic transmission and being completely bone stopped.

But yours truly a fan of anything with two [00:05:00] doors red. I was all over that car, like a cheap suit. So your car really stopped my heart for a minute. It did.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s number seven I think that we’ve owned of Audi coops in total. Between you are Quattros and the regular front wheel drives. So Don, since you went there, you are our resident DeLorean expert.

You’ve got an eighties car in your fleet right now.

Don Weberg: Yeah, I have this little DeLorean. It’s kind of the king of the eighties in my opinion. There’s a lot of cars out there quicker, a lot of cars faster, maybe even better looking. That’s debatable. I disagree with all of you. But anyway, yeah, that would be my perfect eighties car.

It helps a lot with clearing by sinuses up once in a while, you know, it helps a lot, so it’s good stuff. Then I guess the only other eighties thing I might have you guys be the judge. It’s a 79 Caprice, and then there’s a 79 Fiat. Both of them teeter the Fiat because it came from the sixties really. That car started in 66.

It’s a 1 24 spider, but then you’ve got the Caprice, which [00:06:00] started life really in 77 because it’s a brick. It’s one of the square caprices, but it spanned the eighties all the way to 1990 until it was put out of production. So it was the choice of cops and cabbies. Everywhere

Mark Shank: in the eighties. Yeah. I’ll give you that.

Don, I thought of you. I called my dad in preparation for this episode and I

Don Weberg: somehow, that sounds bad. I don’t know. Well,

Mark Shank: no. I said, dad, if you could buy any classic car from the eighties, what would you get? Mely outta his mouth. DeLorean.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you’ve had a couple eighties cars yourself, right, mark?

Mark Shank: Yeah.

Really just one worthwhile one. I had an 85 Porsche nine 11 Carrera. I had a ton of money put into it. I got it from someone who was in a bad spot in 2009 in the, you know, financial crisis. They were in the mortgage business. He had almost 60 grand in receipts and I bought it off him for 20,000. I put some money in it, and I loved that car to death.

I’m a damn fool for forever selling it.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Dan, did you pick a square body or you got something better?

Mountain Man Dan: Well, are we talking [00:07:00] about favorite of cars in my fleet from the eighties?

Crew Chief Eric: Either what you own or what you’ve owned, or what is your favorite of the eighties?

Mountain Man Dan: Y’all know that I’m a sucker from my square body Chevy trucks, and I have one from almost every year of the eighties.

But I would say of my trucks, I’d have to say my 82 is probably my favorite because when my brother was killed, he helped me build that one. And as you saw, I finally got that back up and running recently. So I’m super excited to be driving that again. But the problem is, is it still drags the whole way out the driveway ’cause of how low it sits.

But it sounds so good. It does. It does. She’s pretty. Other than that, I would have to say my Grand Prix, because I’ve owned that since I was in high school. Soon the engine would be getting put back in her and she’ll be back alive as well. I would say have my fleet. It’s between those two of my favorites.

Crew Chief Eric: So Bradley, you know I, I thought about your 37 different cars you’ve owned over your lifespan and I think you just had a brief flirtation, just like a one night stand with an eighties car, proper eighties car, didn’t you?

Crew Chief Brad: No, [00:08:00] I am completely out of my elements. I was looking back at my list of 250 cars I’ve owned in my lifetime and not a one is an eighties car, not an 81.

Is that what you said? Oh, wait, O okay, now I know where you’re going. I was gonna say, I do not own or nor have I owned an atheist car, but that apparently is wrong. You just reminded me that for a brief twinkle in your eye, owned an 81 horse, 9 24 turbo. 9 31 Turbo. Can I take partial ownership of that since it resided here for a little while?

That’s the case. And possession is nine-tenths. Then I never owned the car because it either resided at Matt Yips house or your house. In that case, I never owned a Porsche, but I owned it long enough to join P C A. You had tax the titles, ounces ownership. There you go. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: A brief flirtation with that 9 24 Turbo.

So there you go. Yes. Ran when parked.

Crew Chief Brad: Ran. When parked. Never ran again.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, like I said before, we’ve had tons of [00:09:00] cars from the eighties over the years and whatnot. My personal favorite was actually the car drove college. I was the second and fourth owner of this car. I had an 83 UR Quattro. They only brought 627 of those cars to the United States to begin with, and I was a stupid college kid that drove one every day and people were like, what is that?

With the jackknife fender flares that kind of set the E 30 M three, the 9 44, the RX seven, all those cars of that era copied that style that everybody wanted, those jackknife flares from the r Quatros. I will say that like all the other eighties heroes that I’ve driven, like R five Turbos and Camaros and things like that, you know, they sort of just don’t live up to the hype.

And we’re gonna talk more about homologation cars. I’m sure as we go through this, you know, that’s our trip down memory and lane for the eighties. But like all what should I buy is we’re here to shop and spend other people’s money. So how do we do that? You all know the drill at this point. We’ve got these weird buckets of money that don’t make much sense, so I think we’re just gonna ditch those all together.

’cause eighties cars have [00:10:00] gotten pretty pricey. So the 50 a hundred, 150 is just whatever. But we gotta put some limitations around what we’re talking about. We’ve said before. We can’t pick the obvious choices. 9 44 is out 3 0 8. Ferrari is out. Iroc, Camaro is out. All that stuff is out the window. We gotta find the oddballs.

We gotta find the fun cars for our collector. We also have to settle this debate about I. The body styles of these cars because I think the eighties had one of the most diverse pallets in terms of body types to choose from. And we gotta figure out what the hell is a liftback, a hatchback, a fastback, a sportback, a shooting break the station wagon.

Like what is the difference? Somebody explain it to me.

Mark Shank: I love arguing over the definition of a shooting break. I think that is one of the best to ridiculous argument to get in. I mean, Mercedes calls their wagons shooting breaks. In Europe, they don’t even call ’em wagons or estates. They’re just a Mercedes shooting break.

Crew Chief Eric: Have you ever looked at the definition of a shooting break?

Mark Shank: I have a personal definition of a shooting break, which is, [00:11:00] it’s a hatchback with no C pillar, right? If it’s a hatchback with no C pillar, it’s a shooting break. It’s got the A pillar on the window, it’s got the B pillar on the door. It’s got no C pillar and then obviously the D pillar, ’cause it’s hatchback.

Like that to me is a shooting break.

Crew Chief Eric: But isn’t that a lift back then? ’cause a Rocco is technically a lift back and not a hatchback.

Mark Shank: So if you want to get into the concave, convex nature of the hatch. But yeah, when it flattens out like that,

Crew Chief Eric: I look at at it as the angle of the body line itself. So for me, I think a wagon is a three box design with a D pillar.

A hatchback is a shortened version of that, but the rear hatch is straight. It’s 90 degrees. I think we can all agree on that. But the controversy comes into your point about the shooting brake, the lift back, the fast back, and William mentioned the notch back. And then you have a car like Tanya’s, a GT coupe, which is technically not a hatchback, a liftback, it’s got a funky little trunk.

So it’s considered a sports coupee, but so is a 9 44, which is a liftback, like a Corvette, a [00:12:00] cama. So it gets really blurry really fast.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, the notch back was just a sedan. It just had a trunk.

Crew Chief Eric: But what’s the other funky one with?

Crew Chief Brad: That’s the hatchback. That’s the G D T hatchback. So how is that? Or liftback?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I was gonna say right.

Crew Chief Brad: When people talk about the notch, they talk about the sedan. It had a proper trunk. The rear glass did not live

Crew Chief Eric: well. Isn’t a sedan, isn’t it four doors? No. Yeah. See it gets the eighties.

Crew Chief Brad: Everybody was high on cocaine. Oh man.

Mark Shank: Right

Crew Chief Brad: on. So, so, but with the

Mark Shank: examples you’re pointing out, they don’t because Rocco, I’m looking at these old Rocco’s, so it’s like a 9 44, you know, it doesn’t really have a D pillar, it’s just kind of moved forward and pulled down a Rocco.

Does there have to be some roundness on the back to make it a shooting break? I don’t know,

Crew Chief Eric: but that’s the beauty of this particular decade in automotive history, is that there’s so many different body styles to choose from. We’ve never had that type of proliferation again. We’ve actually consolidated down and there’s less and less wagons today than there ever has been.

Hatchbacks are sort of going away in lieu of [00:13:00] SUVs, which are just giant hatchbacks on stilts and you know, things like that. So we have a lot to choose from. It really depends on what you’re into. And then obviously we can go pick up trucks, trucks, all that kind of stuff was also available at this time period.

It’s like a smorgasbord of different cars. So the question is, where do we take our prospective buyer?

Don Weberg: We only talking hatches.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no, I just wanted to clear up an argument. ’cause one day, oh, Brad and I at the office we’re going back and forth about is a Camaro a hatchback? And I’m like, no, that whole glass lifts up in the back.

But it’s not a hatchback, it’s a liftback. Just like a 9 44 is a liftback.

Crew Chief Brad: When he says, we got into an argument, it was because we were trying to iron out details for a spec race in This is true in Forza,

Crew Chief Eric: this is true. And we were

Crew Chief Brad: trying to decide if we wanted to allow cars like the Camaros and the Mustangs in this spec race.

The determination was no, because they’re not hatchbacks. They’re lift backs. I,

William Ross: I guess the question is though, is, is this gonna be their only car? Is it just gonna be a fun car? I mean, utilitarian aspect of it. I mean, they’re gonna have to use this [00:14:00] for all their daily activities or is this just gonna be, you know, something they can go have fun with?

Crew Chief Eric: I think anybody that’s buying an eighties car today is definitely buying it as a either showpiece or a tool around car. I don’t think anybody’s really buying an eighties car as a daily driver anymore. You know, not without considerable amounts of money. Talk to Daniel.

Jeff Willis: Well, I love that you said Eric about the crux because on my list I’ve got the iconic Dodge Rampage.

Don Weberg: Oh my god.

Jeff Willis: Yes. And I’m telling you, Dodge Ramp is just like the old crappy little brats that were so popular. I love the heck out of those things. Those are utilitarian, right? They

Don Weberg: are. Yeah. Well, and remember too, Volkswagen had one too. The caddy, the

Crew Chief Eric: rabbit. Yeah. What’s cool about the rampage was on my list of forgotten.

I have a lot of Dodge on my list today, but, so Don, you know, as a, as a closet Chrysler nerd yourself. You know, we talk about the TC a lot, which is on the Q platform. We’ve talked in the past about the K cars, which started in the seventies and things like that, but the rampage, although it looks like a K [00:15:00] car, is actually on the L chassis.

It’s like its own beast, but the parts are interchangeable with the Omni and the Shelby. Mm-hmm. Which gives you this kind of little hot rod that you can build out of it, which is pretty cool.

Jeff Willis: And that was my number one. I’m glad that you went that way because the Omni, obviously there’s one that had the Shelby badge on it and that’s, you know, something that’s collectible now.

But my number one that I would want right now in that same category would be the late eighties Dodge Shelby charger with the manual turbo.

Don Weberg: I had the uh, the Shelby Dakota g l h s and the charger on my list as well.

Crew Chief Eric: Is the Daytona Z in that list too, or is that just into the nineties? No,

Don Weberg: the Z was an eighties car.

The Turbo Z came out in 84. That was their very first hot Rod. Daytona was the turbo Z, and then you had the Chrysler Laser X SE I think was their version. And that car only lasted for two years, and it went out of business and the Daytona took over.

Executive Producer Tania: They had the Chrysler Conquest. Yep. Kit Conquest

Jeff Willis: [00:16:00] tsi,

Executive Producer Tania: which was the same as the Mitsubishi ion.

Those

Jeff Willis: were cool. That was the RX seven competitor. It was 180 horsepower or something stock.

William Ross: If you guys love that car. I know a gentleman down in Virginia up on his hill, he’s got acres and acres of land, but he’s got probably 120 of those cars just in various. Rusted out state. He is got a couple of the race cars that did in that little celebrity race series.

With those, he is just got ’em all over. If everybody’s looking for one, let me know ’cause I can set you up this guy. ’cause he is just got hundreds of ’em sitting out in the field just in various stages

Mark Shank: of the k I was shocked how cheap they were on bring a trailer.

Crew Chief Eric: What are they going for?

Mark Shank: So like the G L H S, the last year that Shelby Charger, they only made a thousand of them sold for 12 grand like a couple months ago.

The Chrysler C S X, which same drive train, they made their version of that under 10,000. The Omni G L H S, the collectible one is still under 20 easy. Some transactions at 15 grand.

Crew Chief Eric: That was an [00:17:00] over 200 horsepower car too, which back then is like, there’s a lot neck breaking. Yeah.

Mark Shank: Yeah. Front wheel drive and kind of insane.

Crew Chief Eric: And lots of torque steer too. It’s beautiful. It’s a good thing.

Mountain Man Dan: Well the partnership with Mitsubishi for the engines was what benefited them. ’cause if it wasn’t for that, that car would’ve been crap if they would’ve used one of their off the shelf engines.

Crew Chief Eric: Well the best part is the base Omni was using a rabbit engine, so they were also partnered with Volkswagen to develop that car.

So it’s sort of a weird marriage of three companies to make the omni work.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah, I, I spent a lot of time riding around in one in high school ’cause my cousin had one. We beat the living hell outta that car.

Crew Chief Eric: Before we go a little bit too far down the path and why I wanted to talk about the Daytona Z and, and there was an IROC version of that and a bunch of other stuff later, you know, just like there was the IROC Camaro is how far into the nineties mark are we allowed to take some of these cars?

’cause if we’ve argued before, some of the best nineties cars started in the eighties and some of the best eighties cars started in the seventies. Do we have a sort of grace year that we can cut off for this [00:18:00] discussion?

Mark Shank: Just for clarification, I think one of the best nineties cars you could have bought in 2017,

Crew Chief Eric: are we talking about the Dodge fiber?

Mark Shank: Yes. If it were entirely up to me, there would be a fair amount of leeway. Right? Like so for example, I would say a 19 89, 300 ZX turbo is obviously a nineties car, right? Just culturally identifies as a nineties car

Crew Chief Eric: like a rado would or, or a Supra or something like that.

Mark Shank: Yeah. And like I would say a a 9 6 4 for me, a 9 6 4 Porsche would be a nineties car, but came out in 89.

But on the same side, it’s like some great models were made towards the end in the early nineties. Right? So you’ve, you know, you got your Shelby Fox body, we had the GT 40 heads and everything. They made 91 through 93. There are definitely cars that kind of stretched out into the early nineties that I think identify as eighties cars if I can keep leaning on that language.

And so I would tend towards setting a cutoff around probably 93 as like the last model year.

Mountain Man Dan: And that’s when many of ’em [00:19:00] transitioned to new body styles around the 93 94 timeframe anyway. Yeah. At least on, yeah, for a lot of things.

Crew Chief Eric: Should we continue to pull on this Dodge thread just for a moment longer?

Don, do you wanna talk about the Miranda? Is that, is that on your list of vehicles?

Don Weberg: You’re not being arrested. It’s not the Miranda, it’s the Marada.

Crew Chief Eric: What?

Don Weberg: Or is it the Marada Mar? No, it’s the Marada. Which was the Cordoba. Because remember the Cordoba has the Corinthian leather. Yeah, the Marada had vinyl.

Terrible, terrible, terrible. They were wonderful cars. As long as you didn’t wanna go, you know, anywhere, they were fine. Hey, I’ll tell you so down. You got prostitutes walking by you. You’ve got their attention. Trust me, they know that this is a classic car right here.

Crew Chief Eric: So since we’re pulling that Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Thread still for a moment, I wanna touch on something that I’ve mentioned before, which is the A M C Eagle four by four.

I still think that’s an interesting choice. It’s still in that weird period. They built that car into the eighties, even though it [00:20:00] started in the seventies. But there’s another car that is just kind of classically eighties. And Brad, what do we think about the Jeep Cherokee xj?

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve always loved the Xjs.

They’re, I think they’re good. They’re a great hatchback.

Crew Chief Eric: The Xjs one of those things that if you’re not a truck person, you could kind of go the other way. Lower it, do some stuff. Blasphemer. No,

Crew Chief Brad: no, never. No way.

William Ross: Why not? Why you could make a low rider

Crew Chief Brad: Jeep though. Lifted. Lifted on 30 sevens. Take the doors off and send it.

That’s the only way those trucks live. ’cause the only way those hatchbacks live

Mountain Man Dan: well with that generation of Jeeps. They weren’t really good until when they started putting the four liter in ’em in the late eighties.

Crew Chief Brad: Yep. That’s what we’re talking about here.

Mountain Man Dan: But I’m saying they made ’em earlier in the eighties, I believe, but it wasn’t until later eighties when the four liter became the powertrain and that four liter was bulletproof.

Crew Chief Eric: Yep. So Jeff, we’re gonna play the great Carac here. Can you think where I’m going with the xj?

Jeff Willis: I’m wondering if you’re going in the direction of something that’s a little more rare. The Dodge Raider. [00:21:00]

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no, I was gonna go down the Comanche path.

Jeff Willis: So yeah, Dodge Raider being the, what was it? The copy of the Mitsubishi something or other.

It looks like a little, an affordable version of a defender almost. I love ‘

Crew Chief Eric: em. I like the Comanche ’cause it’s a XJ with a bed on it. And those are also super rare. They didn’t make a ton of those either. And then you could slam it down on the ground on bags and stuff. Brad, I’m not gonna lie. That would be cool

Don Weberg: if we’re going down this four by four Ss U V Pickup.

Ridiculousness road. I cannot watch the fall guy now without thinking of you. Okay. I watch the Fall guy every night. There you are with that big truck. Okay. Anyway. Can we get off the Jeep thing for a minute or are we still on there? Sure, sure. Okay, because I want to go someplace really, really weird. This thing popped in my head late at night during my insomnia attack, and when it came out I thought, my God, this is the.

Ugliest thing that’s ever hit four wheels, but it was so ugly. I fell in love with it. I had to have one someday. I just had to, and then I found out it was made in Italy and had a Ford Drive train, [00:22:00] and I thought, this is for me. This is perfect. Then I found out it was designed by Tom Sharda, who also designed my 1 24, and I thought, I’ve gotta have this thing someday.

Ladies and gentlemen, I’d like to bring up to the board for potential consideration. The la what is that? Oh, LA

Crew Chief Eric: yeah,

Don Weberg: the u v for SUVs for the people who are tired of Range Rovers and Jeeps with wood on the side. Wow, that is ugly.

Crew Chief Eric: Jesus Christ. That was ugly.

Mark Shank: I rock your world. Do I not? You gotta love that.

The Wikipedia image, all the paints all jacked up, like they couldn’t even find a good one for the image on Wikipedia.

Don Weberg: I’ll tell you, growing up where I grew up, We had a dealership. It was a Porsche Audi dealer, and they took on the La Forza franchise. I remember riding down there with my bike. They had four or five of ’em sitting down on the lot and I, I think the saddest part about the whole thing was about a year later they still had those same [00:23:00] four or five.

Oh no. It was sad. Nobody was buying these cars.

William Ross: Cars and bids. Got the monitor as being ultra rare and rare and what,

Crew Chief Eric: 50 bucks. I mean, what do they want for these things?

Mark Shank: I’m like, wait. Ultra rare. It has a speed hump though. Look, look, it has a power bulge on the bonnet.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s like an eclipse

Mark Shank: packing weight.

It can lay some pipe.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, that’s terrible.

Mark Shank: Notice all the colors of the paint.

Don Weberg: That is awful. See in the back door? The front door, the hood. They’re all different to the kind of car I would buy to tow my UO around with.

Crew Chief Eric: So since we’re still talking about trucks, straight out of the Trias period is the gwa, you can’t get any more.

I don’t know what decade that thing is.

Don Weberg: Can we bring that up in the eighties? Because that damn thing dates back to the forties, right? I mean that you stretch back. That thing really goes back.

Crew Chief Eric: It has not changed. They still make it the same way today.

Don Weberg: I know,

Mark Shank: I know it’s the same thing, but is it a forties car?

You can’t buy the same one.

Crew Chief Eric: The thing about the GWA is it still screams [00:24:00] eighties. In the same way that like the Lincoln Mark VII is the banker’s hot rod. You know, the kind of thing, it’s like it’s got this certain span about it that it is timeless, but it’s also kind of at that height. It’s got that like bourgeois about it that makes it eighties, that it just fits in with the rest of the landscape.

Right. And you can’t say that it’s not, you wouldn’t see a GWA in an eighties movie. I mean, it’s like, all right, cool. I, I think it fits.

Don Weberg: No, I think it works. I do. I, I don’t know. I have trouble with goes

ire. I hated them. I did. I gotta be honest, I hated those things because for me, the height and the width of me, when you sat in that truck, that was it. You were not going to slouch and get more comfortable. And I’m sorry. Back when I worked for MotorTrend, I drove a lot of Lincolns. I was used to slouching all the time.

So this whole upright position thing, which is great for certain German people, it didn’t work for me. It just couldn’t stand it. I couldn’t get it outta my head that this thing just reaches all the way back to the [00:25:00] forties. It represents, you know, the war and yet they still keep building the stupid thing.

Yep. And it is the worst thing in the world, off road. I don’t care what anybody says. I’ll put it to you this way. Never ever did we get one of these cars at MotorTrend that did not have that stupid little yellow triangle with the inflammation mark in the middle. Every single Mercedes, SS u V, doesn’t matter if we’re talking about the G wagon, the ml, any of them, they all had that stupid thing on there.

We were always calling Mercedes, what is this about? What is it? Don’t worry about that. Just, you know, just, just don’t write about it. Don’t mention it. It’s a brand new car. It has less than 300 miles on it. This thing is on, and we’re not gonna write about. You sure. Don’t wanna just send us another one to prove that, oh, I don’t know.

Maybe you built one that the light doesn’t come on. Sorry, you hit something here. I guess because I’m getting pretty emotional about this, I’d much rather talk about my Lata. My lata is much better.

Mountain Man Dan: So the La Forza though, can anyone else look at that and not [00:26:00] see a predecessor like the a Suzu Rodeo?

Because I see that, oh yeah, it looks

Crew Chief Eric: like a weird Isuzu trooper. Like

Mountain Man Dan: no power

Mark Shank: bulge on a rodeo.

Don Weberg: Did Tom Arda have anything to do with any of those Jesuses? ’cause Sharda designed that Laa, I guess the understanding was he had to use a lot of existing parts to make it work. So it was sort of like putting together like a Lego set

Crew Chief Eric: from what a A lot of factory.

I mean, that thing looks like it’s out of the Eastern block.

Don Weberg: Yeah, I know. I remember those stupid things were like 50 grand. What? I mean, they were insane. They were cheap. No, and they were built on a Bronco chassis, which, hey, I’m a resident Ford guy here, but I love Broncos. Come on. When I came to Bronco for 18,000.

Why not just get the Bronco? I will say that yes, the Mercedes is definitely an eighties vehicle, but it just reaches back to the forties and I just don’t get it. I can’t comprehend it.

Mountain Man Dan: Will it make you feel any better, Don? That I almost burnt one of them gwas to the ground in Albania when I was down there.

Don Weberg: Do you have video? I’d love to see video.

Mountain Man Dan: No, I don’t have video unfortunately. [00:27:00] Alright,

Don Weberg: draw me a picture. Someday

Mountain Man Dan: the battery broke loose and like fried all the wires on Hood and smoke just started going everywhere and it was epic.

Don Weberg: Oh no, that’s weird because a friend of mine literally just bought a brand new S some big shot four door, $500,000 Mercedes driving home from the dealership.

The battery exploded under the hood.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what the bulge is for on the La Forza. Okay.

Don Weberg: Baboo

Crew Chief Eric: the

Mark Shank: room absorbs the blast.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’s not happy with the G wagon, but I have an alternative for you. I had a feeling you weren’t gonna like that as an option, but think about our, our perspective buyer. You wanna buy something totally eighties, maybe it looks like a matchbox car has off-road potential and you don’t wanna get into the Jeep cult lifting and big tires and all that kinda stuff.

What about. The Suzuki Samurai,

Mountain Man Dan: they’re getting hard to find in decent shape. They are. If you don’t have to go on the highway, you’re all right.

Jeff Willis: The geo tracker. Yes.

Don Weberg: Yes. Jeff, you hit it. That is my dream. SS U V. I’m not kidding you. Oh, I love the geo. I was gonna say, I raised [00:28:00] you a geo tracker, but Jeff just blasted straight through it like a G wagon.

So Jeff is the GWA of the group, but yes, the samurai is fun. Just don’t turn quickly.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, the same is true, the trooper. Right? It remember the motor week tests had to put the bars on it so it wouldn’t roll over. Yes.

Don Weberg: You know another one that liked doing that with the Bronco two, which is. Absolute eighties.

I don’t think that thing made it to the nineties. I don’t know. Had those weird side windows. Yeah, the side windows go up into the roof a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Kind

Crew Chief Eric: of like the The Land Rovers. Yeah.

Don Weberg: Yeah. They were terrible. They loved tipping over. Now I would love to have a Suzuki though. I would. And I think their very, very eighties.

I had a friend who had a girlfriend who had one. It was like a jungle gym on wheels. You were always just a little terrified when that thing was going down the road. No, I loved it. I thought it was great.

Jeff Willis: Well, Don, lemme ask you this. Do you remember the Suzuki X 90, the one that came later? Yeah.

Don Weberg: Yes. That was just more rounder.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was more of a sedan looking thing, wasn’t it? Yeah. Is that the one you’re talking

Jeff Willis: about, Jeff? Yeah. [00:29:00] But they touted it. They put pictures of it in front of big cat machines on the construction site. Oh Lord.

Don Weberg: Yeah. Terrible. Yeah, that thing was goofy. There were a lot of goofy SUVs that came out at that time.

I can’t remember too many of ’em, but that Suzuki was one of ’em. It was. It was pretty weird.

Mountain Man Dan: Bronco too. That was almost the same chassis as the Rangers at that time. Right? I don’t know what it was with the engines. Ford put ’em in that time, but like from the factory, they came with a tack to them and it’s like you start it up and it would sit there just tapping and Ford was like, oh, that’s normal.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s like the check engine light on the G wagon. Like they, Todd, I was talking about. But I, I wanna finish out this thought on trucks because then we can move on to really obscure stuff, because I think trucks are an important part of the eighties. We all fell in love with the fall guy and the square bodies and all that kind of stuff, and I, I don’t want Dan to take us on a three hour tour on the SSS Square body.

There’s two more that are on this list and I’m glad Mark allowed me to walk into the nineties just a little bit. I hope I’m on the same wavelength as some people here. I’m thinking G M C Cyclone.

Don Weberg: Oh, there you go. The [00:30:00] Cyclone and the Typhoon. Those were awesome.

Mark Shank: Feels nineties to me. It does

Crew Chief Eric: 91. It is,

Mark Shank: but culturally it feels nineties.

It but eighties SS 10 though. That’s true, isn’t it?

Don Weberg: I agree with Mark though. ’cause I, I, believe me, I was thinking about the Cyclone and the Typhoon, both of them. I love both of those vehicles. I resisted, I thought, no, I’m not gonna bring this up because it’s a nineties car. To me, that thing kind of kicked off nineties performance.

It really did. ’cause to come into the nineties, oh my God, they built this little pickup that will spank a Corvette with the right driver. That thing is mind blowing. It really, really is

Mountain Man Dan: a great thing about it. It held the record for Fastest Truck for one of the longest spans.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, up until recently, as a

Mark Shank: matter of, but zero to 60 time was something like 25 years.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So I have one final one. This is how we get into obscure stuff. Does anybody know what the abbreviation, R E P U stands for? Mazda produced something called the Repo, which is the Rotary Engine pickup. So it’s [00:31:00] like a Mazda 2100 Ford Ranger, but rotary powered with the RX seven 13 B in it. So that’s kind of a neat thing.

They do exist. You can import ’em from Japan. So if you wanna do something really off the wall and have a kind of interesting pickup truck, I think the Mazda repo would be something really cool to look into. Are you

William Ross: pronouncing that right? Repo re repo

Don Weberg: repo. My repo got repoed. Yeah. Yeah. You know the nice thing too about the rotary Mazda pickups, they do go back to the seventies, breaking away from our eighties only discussion.

That little pickup was around in the seventies with that rotary motor. If you’re gonna import one from Japan, you’ve got a big span to look for. But how many of those things survived, especially living in Japan?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Don Weberg: I mean, that’s a harsh, harsh environment for cars over there. That really is. Exactly.

Mountain Man Dan: If individuals look of the repo, they could also go for like the Toyotas of that generation.

’cause some of those small Toyota pickups had that similar look to them. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: the tacos?

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Don Weberg: You have that 22 [00:32:00] re and the 22 R. Those were fantastically powerful, high revving, little four cylinders. They love, love, love to go. The Toyotas were fantastic.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, the nice part about this time period and why I bring up a truck like the Mazda, is that we are outside that time limit.

We can really start looking at importing cars from Japan and from Europe, right. That we weren’t able to buy, let’s say 10 years ago. Right. We’re past that. So now they’re not even really gray market anymore. You could just bring ’em in for historic when they get here, that kind of thing. So it really opens up where the nineties, they’re still like on the verge of some really cool cars being able to come over outside of like Nissan GTRs and stuff like that.

So pretty much the pallet is wide open here. Mm-hmm. In terms of what we can bring to the United States from the eighties, which is pretty slick.

Don Weberg: One of the cars that was on my list, been a dream car of mine for a long, long time. Alpine G T A. It was on my list. Anyone remember this car with the big headlights up front?

The one that says, I’m better than you because I’m French. [00:33:00] It was on my list. It was on my list. Was it? Yeah. I’ve always loved those cars, you know, and I used to read of those British magazines back in the day. There were sometimes full page ads for dealers over in England and France, and they would specialize in these cars.

And I remember thinking, my God, that is the coolest looking car in the world. I just loved them. And they had a couple different variants. I don’t remember what they were. I remember the G T A though fit in the eighties. The next one was more of a nineties car. That’s why I stayed away from it.

Crew Chief Eric: You have opened Pandora’s box.

You have crossed the threshold into my territory. We’re talking about French cars now.

Don Weberg: Well, in that case, I’m gonna do a filibuster all about TC all night long because it doesn’t get better than tc. That is an

Crew Chief Eric: obvious choice. We’re not allowed to go there. Oh

Don Weberg: no. It’s been boycotted good.

Mountain Man Dan: If you’re gonna bring French cars into my generation, having driven one, when I was stationed in England, that one of my troops had picked up.

The 2 0 5 G T I ambuja. Those were quick, powerful little cars and fun to drive. [00:34:00]

Mark Shank: 1.9 liter, not the 1.6 liter. They had two.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct. And Mark, you’re right on the money. I just talked to one of my guys recently. He’s trying to import a 2 0 5 rally, which is the one six, which is the one nobody really wants, but it’s still a heck of a lot of fun.

It’s again, outside of that statute of limitations. And then you can hot rod it because it’s a eo. So why not? If you love that body style and you can’t obviously afford a T 16, why not go with the base model? Right? The eight valve G T I is just as fun as a 16 valve sometimes.

Mark Shank: Yeah, I mean it was a surprising number of transactions on Bring a trailer for those 2 0 5 GTIs.

I was looking at them as well, and I think the last one, it was in good shape. It went for 14 grand for 1.9, and you don’t have to deal with importing or bullshit like in the United States transaction. $14,000. That’s not bad.

Crew Chief Eric: I know there’s one that Tanya and I appreciated from a really early episode We did way back when when we reviewed the movie Lost Bullet and in that they featured a Renault 21, and if you don’t know what that is, it’s sort of [00:35:00] like competitor to the EO 4 0 5.

Really neat looking sedan, sort of hopped up, does have a turbo 2.1 liter, all that kinda stuff. So that’s a neat car. It’s been on my radar for a while. In the United States, there’s a Renault that people often forget about. I’m not talking about the LA car, which definitely screams the eighties. Does anybody remember the Fuego?

Don Weberg: I love the Fuego. The Fuego is a wonderful car. It’s another fine car to be broken down on the side of the roadway.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a

Don Weberg: car is ugly, don’t hold back. Let us know how you really feel.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. But, and the reason the Fuego is an interesting candidate is the fact that it was used for a Rene Spec series in S C C A in the eighties and Andy Pilgrim drove one of those cars and you can actually still find some of those X Reno Cup cars and they’re all Reno Fuegos because they were sold here in the States.

So it’s kind of interesting if you want something that isn’t completely mainstream but was available stateside.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. But the problem with that, and we’ve said this [00:36:00] multiple times with other subjects, cars from foreign countries that make it to the US are normally their crap versions of cars.

Crew Chief Eric: A hundred percent.

Mountain Man Dan: That’s the great thing about this, is now we can start bringing their decent cars in without all the headache.

Crew Chief Eric: One final French car. Okay. And this is the only time that we’ll say this on the show ever about a Ciro end. I really like the bx. I think the BX is super cool.

Don Weberg: You know how I feel about French cars?

I’m all over them. I think they’re wonderful. I think they need to come here more frequently.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s like Citroen’s attempt at making the Audi coop or the Rocco. It’s got that like boxy sportiness to it. That’s very eighties. But without the round headlight kind of feature of the BMWs,

Executive Producer Tania: you need to specify that you’re referring to the four TC because the Citro and BX is a heinous wagon.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re absolutely right. That’s true. The four tc.

Mountain Man Dan: For some reason, whenever I see cars, like they have like that rear fender skirt type thing, it just makes me have flashback. ’cause the eighties versions of that looked ugly. But when they did it in the fifties and the forties with the fender skirts, they looked good.

Don Weberg: [00:37:00] Is this the car from Ronan that the 6.9 liter was chasing down the brown 6.9 liter? Yeah. Was chasing down a four door citra and. They were duking it out and I gotta tell you, bullet be damned, that could have been the best car chase ever because you hear the throaty rumble of that 6.9 liter and you hear that screaming high-pitched opera coming from the Citro end.

Oh my god. They were both fantastic, but I don’t know if that’s the car you’re talking about.

Executive Producer Tania: No, the Citro and Zanio was in Ronan.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the big car. Yeah. He’s

Executive Producer Tania: talking about the Citro and BX four tc.

Don Weberg: Notice how the rear end of that car looks like the Chevy Bolt. You ever see that?

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, with those gills in the C pillar, it reminds me of the coupe in the u r Quattro.

It’s got the same vent back there. Does.

Don Weberg: Okay. Yeah, it’s ugly, but I can see it. It’s a cool car just because it’s so ugly. It’s kinda like the La Forza, you know? They’re so ugly. You just gotta love them.

Crew Chief Eric: And I gotta give it to the French. They did a lot of hatchbacks and because we didn’t get a lot of French cars here, we [00:38:00] tend to kind of forget that because you look at the R four and the R five and you look at all the ciro ends and the PEOs.

Every model almost came in a hatchback or liftback. Mm-hmm. At that period. And then the wagon version. So they kind of like, were the kings of that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. But we relate to the G T I because that’s what we got from Germany and the Honda C V C C and stuff like that. The Civic and the c r s and all those.

Yeah. But the French really just, they leaned into the hatchback scene hard. So when I think hot hatches, my brain goes there again, as a first time collector, something to think about is maybe start looking at French cars and you’re not gonna see very many of them. No. At your next cars in coffee, that’s for sure.

Mark Shank: It looks so good. In black, it looked like shit in white, but in black. Oh yeah. Much

Crew Chief Eric: better.

Mark Shank: Much better. In black. I actually

Crew Chief Eric: even like those wheels. They’re so bizarre that they’re awesome. And again, I won’t say that often about a ciro end. So we can come back from France. We can put our brie and our baguettes and our burgundy aside.

What else have you guys got on your list? ’cause I, I do have some weird [00:39:00] ones.

Don Weberg: Going a little bit to the left of the French, if I may. Two Alphas G T V six. That always won my heart back in the eighties. One I thought was horribly ugly growing up, but today I absolutely can’t get enough of them. The Alpha GTV six and uh, the sedan, the 1 64.

Crew Chief Eric: The 1 64 is a really good looking car, especially if you can deal with that two-tone thing that it has going on. Yeah,

Don Weberg: yeah. We, we had a guy back in again, that dealer I told you about. They were the weirdest dealer, but they also sold Alpha to Mayo. So we had a lot of alphas in the town and one of the guys got it and actually he got rid of that two-tone.

He actually painted it all one color. So much better looking, so much better looking. But what I thought was funny was during that time, and here we go with the king of the eighties, I think basically any Mercedes sedan from the eighties is gonna be the king, but they too had that plastic body bottom and then this painted on the top in the town I grew up in, all because of that one alpha.

All the Mercedes onlys ran and they [00:40:00] painted their bottoms to match their tops. They looked so much better. They really did. But yeah, the G T V and the 1 64, I just thought they were fantastic cars. And like you’re saying, you know, they were plentiful back in the day, but today, not so much. You show up to a car and coffee, you show up to any car show, it’s gonna be kind of the oddball of the bunch.

Not as weird as a French car, but it’d be up there.

Jeff Willis: Well, if we’re going obscure, one on my list that was really obscure that I found actually recently was a Ford Mustang McLaren M 81. Kind of one of those ho allegations that I think they only made like 10 or 15 of them. They were road legal. It was kind of to showcase the race team.

Crew Chief Eric: Those flares are really interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So

Jeff Willis: that was almost like the start of the wide body almost

Don Weberg: right

Jeff Willis: before the wide body got popular.

Don Weberg: Yeah. And if you remember Jeff building on that car, and it’s on my list here, spraying the A S C McLaren Capri.

Jeff Willis: Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Yep.

Don Weberg: And then just a little later, because the Capri was not selling very [00:41:00] well, Ford slid it over to Mustang and it became the A S C McLaren Mustang that sold much better three years that they had it as Mustang, and two that they had it for Capri.

But those two cars, they sprang from that car that you’re talking about. That was the father of these cars that I had on my list.

Jeff Willis: Because the Capri, the RS was basically like a hatchback Mustang. Right,

Don Weberg: exactly. They were the same car. Just one had a domy glass, a bubble hatchback. That was the Capri. Yeah.

And a blunted front end. It was a very blunt front end, whereas the Mustangs kind of leaned a little bit. It had a little bit of a rake to it. Same car. Yeah. No, that’s a good pick. That really is. My list is kind of organized here. That’s how crazy Swedish I got about it. But where I have the ASC McLaren that you brought up right below that, if you remember in the eighties, Eldorado, todo, and Riviera Yeah.

Were all offered in a converted convertible. They were done by a s C. Now the Cadillac, there were 200 of them that were actually built by Cadillac, and for some reason Cadillac turned it back [00:42:00] over to a s c. They didn’t wanna do it. Those are really fun. Now, right below that, You’ve got the Elante, the Riata, the tc, where I’m going with this.

Your A S C McLaren, the El Dorado Todo Riviera convertible, the tc, the Elante, or the rta. Those are all fantastically cheap. Yeah. For what you’re getting, the Elante and the TC. Are going up in value the quickest, from what I can tell, the A S c McLaren Capri are stupid cheap for what you’re getting. Really the Mustang is worth a lot more.

If you’re just starting out and you want some odd, weird car that’s actually kind of easy to get ahold of and extremely easy to service, you’re not gonna go wrong with any of those cars. You’re really not.

Crew Chief Eric: And this is a really cool pick that Jeff has brought up about this M 81 Mustang. And obviously that’s gonna be what people want, especially if you’re in the Mustang community.

The people that know about it, it’s got that particular orange color, all that kind of stuff. But that Capri version, what’s really neat about that is it harkens back [00:43:00] to the TransAm days and Lynn St. James drove a TransAm Capri, so if you wanted to deck it out and go back to the eighties, you could make a replica of her Ford Motorsport Capri, right?

Stuff like that. With those flares and that wide, I really is aggressive. That’s a cool car. I mean, I, I hate to say I almost like it better than the regular fox body, although you could probably take a fox body and build one of these if somebody makes the flare kit and all the parts.

Don Weberg: That’s what I was gonna get at too, is actually they do.

Oh, you can still get all the flare kit. You can get the interior, which had Ricardo seats, you know, these were two seat cars. The convertibles, I don’t know about the M 81. I’m assuming that was a two seater car, because it was a racing car. You know, these convertibles I’m talking about, they were a little more relaxed.

They were a little more for the boulevard, you know, they were a Mustang. They could move, but they were converted to be more like the sl. So you have the two seats, and then that little package area behind the two seats. They were full convertible. They had beautiful carpet. The Ricardo seats, they were [00:44:00] upgraded in a lot of different ways.

The Damnest thing, to me, again, the TC and the alte of this genre. Are the ones going up in value the fastest out of all of ’em. And yet they built a lot fewer McLaren A S C cars. Yeah. Than either the, especially the Alante. They built quite a few of those. But the tc, they only built roughly 7,000 of them.

What? What did they build? I mean, I just saw the sheet because I was looking at it, it was low. I wanna say 2000 is all that was built of the Mustang and then the Capri was even lower than that because even though it was in production, it just didn’t sell Well you know Jeff, you hit a winner there. You really did.

And I never thought about bringing the M 81 into it because that was just too extreme for me. But yeah, that is a kick butt car.

Mark Shank: Technically. The M 81 was from 1981. Yes. Oh. And if you look at the style, it really is build off that kind of seventies Mustang. It’s kind of crazy to think they’re charging 25 grand with inflation in 2023.

Something like $90,000 for a car with 135 horsepower. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: [00:45:00] that

Don Weberg: hurts. That hurts that. It was the eighties. It was all about flash, pizazz style. Look at the TransAm. Seriously. It just gets no flashy or no better than a TransAm of those days. The GTAs, those Oh perfect. Cars just perfect.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright. Night rider.

All right. Michael Knight. Chill out there a second. Didn’t have, hang again. The cars were super heroes then too. The, what you saw on tv, like can you name a show? That didn’t have a chase scene or the hero or heroine drove some sort of car that you wanted. It was like a rolling advertisement every week between Magnum and Fall Guy and MacGyver and Falcon Crest, and you know, heart to heart and all there was, oh geez.

The list goes on and on and on on these shows.

Don Weberg: Well, the ETE made me want a Corvette. I mean, I always fancied myself as face. Could I have the blonde hair? And I just had to have that. The 18

Crew Chief Eric: makes you wanna buy a Vandora van? Come on now.

Don Weberg: Oh yeah. Oh, that too. I want ’em both. I’m greedy. Are you kidding me?

I’m a child of the eighties. I want it all, and it’s all about me.

Crew Chief Eric: But you talked about sophistication and all this kind of stuff, and there’s another car that was featured [00:46:00] in a show every week, and kind of to go back to Magnum PI for a second, Higgins. Drove an Audi 5,000 and the 4,000, the big one, the 5,000 was always like their test bed.

We’re gonna put the most experimental stuff we can come up with in this land yacht and then subject it to the people and if it breaks, then we’ll figure out how to fix it from there. You know, it was kind of Audi’s thing back then, but the 5,000 is sort of underappreciated. And what’s cool about the 5,000, which became the 200 later and things like that is a V eight fits in there.

Just wanna let you all know it was used in TransAm and in touring car and D T M and all that kind of stuff. The 5,000 can be turned into a beast. If you want to build a hot rod, but if you want a nice, luxurious and most aerodynamic car of the eighties, the 5,000 is an interesting choice.

Mountain Man Dan: And since you’re a wagon guy, Eric, I was just looking it up.

They actually came in wagons.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. The 200 avan dude, it’s like a unicorn for me. That’s the

Don Weberg: top. Wasn’t the 5,000 also available as a wagon?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yes, there was. Yeah, there was. But the 200, the 200 is what you [00:47:00] want because you get the bigger motor and the turbo and Yeah, all the fun stuff that,

Don Weberg: that was the one my mom was actually interested in the Audi 5,000 wagon.

I remember that. And that, that was a terrible day in my family’s history because my dad and his anti foreign cars, all that stuff. And we went, me and my mom alone secretive. My dad couldn’t hear about this. We went to drive the Audi 5,000 wagon, and I’ll never forget the look on my mom’s face. She drove it around the block and put it right back on the dealer lot and thanked the salesman.

And we were leaving and I thought, okay, I don’t know what that’s all about. I said, we get in our car, which was a 78 Ford Country Squire, l t d boat. And so I asked her, what do you think? What do you think? You know, I’m all excited. I’m hoping she’s gonna buy a new car, you know? And she said, that was the most dreadful car I’ve ever driven in my life.

I said, you’re kidding me, but Uncle Howard. He goes, yeah, I don’t know how Uncle Howard tolerates those pieces of junk. I really don’t. Wow. I said, what was wrong with it? Well, it was terribly slow. It drove really nicely. But you know the window and then that back end the way the rear rakes in like that, you lose [00:48:00] all that cubic footage and the head room and your father with his height and there’s no way it’s gonna work out and blah, blah, blah.

I was blown away how badly she hated that car. I just, sorry.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you know what she needed instead was a Nissan Pulsar nx.

Don Weberg: That was a cool car. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: The Inspector Gadget car, right?

Don Weberg: Yeah. You could take off that rear end and have the little hatchback or put it back and you’ve got a wagon and No, those were fantastic little cars.

Crew Chief Eric: I never understood that car.

Don Weberg: If I can really go boldly, We’re only the stupidest ever go. I’d like to go there now. Join me.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re going to Britain?

Don Weberg: No, Germany.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay.

Don Weberg: Because there are certain cars that came from Germany in the 1980s that defined the 1980s, and I’m talking Crockett and Tubs shook ’em down every week.

The drug, Lord, with their AMGs, their als, their Lorenzos, there’s bottles and their resco. Mercedes-Benz.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m glad [00:49:00] you brought that up because I know we talked to Mark about the 500 E, which was the Porsche collaboration for Mercedes, but I found a little gem that predates

Mark Shank: the nineties car.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, but I found the eighties version of it that predates it

Don Weberg: called the Hammer.

Yes, the hammer was the a m G version. That was the beginning of it all. The hammer. That thing was incredible.

Mark Shank: I would go so far as to say any a m G car from the eighties is the balls. Oh yeah, pre-acquisition, they’re all very low volume. I don’t care what a m g you have from that era. And even the Alpena BMWs, they were much more sport.

Any, everybody thinks of the B seven, which in my opinion kind of ruined the Alpena brand. But if you go back to the eighties and nineties, they made some cool stuff. If you get like a B six, E 30 B M W, Alpena B six, like that is a very cool car. Any A M G from the eighties is a very cool car

William Ross: going through the roof price wise.

Now, those AMGs from the eighties, I mean, they’re just getting obscene in value. Crazy money.

Don Weberg: Yeah. I [00:50:00] mean, if you remember back in the day, not too long ago, you could buy those. There was one in Palm Springs used to drive me crazy on the way into or out of town by the welcome center, which used to be an old gas station, and the guy was a Mercedes guy.

He had. A three 80 SL or a four 50 SL A M G, and it was the real deal. It was all black, had the hard top still on it, had this black interior decked out dashboard. It was incredible. You know, when I was pumping gas, I went over just to look at it and one thing that really got my attention, you know, you think to yourself, oh my God, look at this ridiculous thing.

It’s a blacked out sl. How ugly. When you get close to those things and you start looking at the details that they use to make those cards, for example, that blackout treatment, it’s not all gloss black. If you look at the grill treatment, if you look at the little Mercedes emblem, you look at all that, it’s actually more of a matte finish.

It’s kind of a satin finish.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Don Weberg: They differentiated how they were gonna black out that car. And then when you look on the inside, people say they’re white. They’re actually a light, [00:51:00] light, silver color material on the gauges that set it apart. You had your alpine stereo system, you had all this crazy stuff.

They were really highly detailed, but then of course you had the handling suspension and if you could get ’em to modify the engine, you had all that much more. They were something else. But my point is, I remember that guy at the Shell station. He wasn’t selling, wasn’t selling, wasn’t selling. And then finally one day he said, yeah, he was interested in selling.

He said, well how, how much do you want for it? You have five grand. Yeah. I said, okay, well what’s wrong with it? He goes, well, you gotta rebuild the engine. You gotta rebuild the transmission. You gotta rebuild everything. And because it’s not straight Mercedes, you gotta find a specialist who can rebuild an A M G.

They’re thinking, oh, so that’s where the money’s gonna go on that car, you know? And now it’s gone. Somebody did buy it.

Mark Shank: It’s worth it now. It wasn’t worth it. Then the market value will pay for the repair. Yeah.

Don Weberg: Yeah.

Mark Shank: It’s crazy.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s a really good question. ’cause William, you do deal in Mercedes as well.

So I’m wondering, Don left one of the tuners off the list and that’s Braas and at that time, mm-hmm. Braas was a big deal in the [00:52:00] Mercedes community. So if you look at the market value there, would you rather have an early A M G or a Braas from that period?

William Ross: Me take the a M G. Quality wise, Buildwise A M G was a step above vis, I think Vis was more aesthetics really than the kind of like motor net.

So I’m not saying it was a bad car, but I would steer someone towards a m g. Now vis is obviously gonna have a little more rarity to it than a m G ’cause there weren’t so many. Yeah, I’d steer towards a m G for Brava. Really can’t go wrong with either of ’em. It just depends on your taste. You know, they were, I would say two distinct ways of encroaching it, doing those cars, but I’d say a M G all day long.

Mark Shank: And the rarity thing is relative, like the A M G volumes from that time were really, really low. Right? Oh yeah. You’re talking hundreds or thousands for those models and many of them are under a thousand.

William Ross: Yeah. I mean you could be in single digit production on some of those. A lot of ’em are only double digit.

I mean, some are only a couple hundred. That was where it was taking them weeks to build a car. It wasn’t like they were cranking these things out by the day. Took their time, building those things correctly. So there had [00:53:00] the volume, you know, it was very low, kind of going back like Don saying about the guys saying, well, okay, it’s only five grand.

Oh you’re gonna have to go through the motor transmission. That stuff. A lot of those cars, they weren’t taken care of. They were at first. Then they used Mercedes that, you know, had a kit. So people didn’t take care of it. It drove into the ground. No one would take care of ’em. It got to the point, well I’m not gonna put in 15, 20 grand into a car that’s only worth five grand.

So they just let ’em rot. It’s worth it now. But,

Don Weberg: and here’s a case in point. There was a company, they actually changed the trunk emblem, you know, it’s say 500 SELs and they changed it to 1000 s. Mercedes asked them politely stop using our s e l logo. So they used 1000 and it was the initials of the guy who owned the company.

I think that’s what that was. And these 1000 SELs, you gotta think, we’re talking 19 83, 19 85, somewhere in there. They were $250,000 to start. This is crazy money They, and that’s why only the people who could afford them were the sheik and the drug lords. To what you are saying, William, I’ve got a friend who collects these cars and one of ’em a tragic [00:54:00] story, it broke my heart.

He gets a call, there’s a man in Beverly Hills, he just bought a house. They’re gonna tear it down and build a whole new house. But in the garage, there’s this stupid freaked out looking. Mercedes. Mercedes, do you want it? And he says, well, yeah, yeah, I want it. I want it. Well, he couldn’t get it. The state made him junket and it was one of these 1000 SELs, so they gutted it.

He went over there with his team. He took everything he could off that car, paid the junk man for it, just in case he could get the state to change its mind and say, yeah, yeah, okay, we’ll give it a salvage title and you can put it back on the street. They never did. The car ended up going to the junkyard, but he still has all those parts.

But these cars had literally gold plated interiors. Mm-hmm. The leathers were completely switched out from what Mercedes used, and they were totally chained up. You had a TV and you remember back then they didn’t have the flat screens that we do today. They had these big tube driven with glass front end, but they were positioned right between the driver’s seat and the passenger seat, so the rear passengers could watch [00:55:00] tv.

They had two phones in some cases. I mean, it just went on and on and on. Literally the sky was the limit. And then the company. And I forget if it was Barro or Trico. One of the two took the S E C Mercedes and they turned them into Gullwings and those were the ones to have. Those were the cars that were just mind blowing because what’s more mind blowing than a Gullwing door?

I mean, yeah, okay. That’s come from the DeLorean guy here. But seriously, when you put a 500 s e c out there and you’ve got Goaling door, believe me, you are gonna let everybody know you are the last one.

Crew Chief Eric: Next up, Don tries to sell us all a bricklin. We’ll just put a pin in that with these goaling doors for a moment, shall we?

Mark Shank: I like this topic ’cause they’re an American version of this, right? So we’ve talked about Alpena, we’ve talked about, you know, a M G and vis, and let’s just say we talked about roof and move on. We all acknowledge bringer trailers the easiest thing to search by price. ’cause they actually give you good statistics.

It’s also the [00:56:00] high, probably the most overpriced market, but you can get some really cool C four Callaway twin Turbo Corvettes. The

Crew Chief Eric: sledgehammer. Yeah.

Mark Shank: Yeah. I mean, okay, so the actual car and driver car that did the 255 miles per hour sold for 500 grand on bringer trailer. But the other Callaway Corvettes sell for like 50 grand and that’s kind of a pretty damn cool car.

For 50 grand. It’s still crazy fast and very tuneable, very well

Crew Chief Eric: set up. If you don’t want a Callaway, you can get a Lincoln filter. There’s like a bunch of different options. I mean the eighties, I was thinking about it, there are so many names that pop into my head in terms of tuners or body ca manufacturers.

You start looking at Zender and Rieger and Chem A and I mean it’s, the list goes on to lean

Mark Shank: and Roche and all these really cool on

Crew Chief Eric: and on and on and it’s like everything was like bespoke in the eighties in a weird way. It was like, what are we doing here? I wanna roll this back because we’re still talking about Mercedes and I know there’s one that Tanya and I have talked about quite a bit and [00:57:00] I’m gonna take this back to Magnum pi, hence the whole get up this evening.

It’s the two 80 S l. Rick drove one of those on Magnum. It’s like this timeless Mercedes. It’s understated but classy but also not super expensive like an A M G.

Don Weberg: He actually had a three 80.

Crew Chief Eric: Tell me the difference other than the motor, it’s all the same body, right?

Don Weberg: Uh, the two 80 ssl, that was a whole different car.

That was, you’re going back to 1971 with that car. I mean unless there’s something in Germany I don’t know about. But to your point though, and this is where I’ll take your three 80 S l, I was always a fan of the three A D S L raised in the eighties. Matt Houston drove one. The hearts had one that was the car to have.

The beautiful thing about the three 80 is this engine. Now everyone’s gonna laugh at me and say, oh Don, you don’t know anything about cars, because that was the weakest. Of the SLS ever except for, you know, the six cylinder cars, the four 50 SL could clobber a five 60 sl, please light years ahead of its time.

The three 80 was sort of the little kid who, you know, is the ugly stepsister that everybody kind of [00:58:00] overlooks that today. For someone buying a first classic collectible car could be your strong point.

Crew Chief Eric: You get in a manual too. Yeah, it’s really rare that Mercedes had a manual and I think it’s one of the few, like a one 90 E.

Don Weberg: Anyway, my point is because everyone poo-poos the engine and rightfully so. I get that the values are really, really cheap. Now hear me out, think of Ferrari. Porsche, they always tend to lead the pack on this. Well, I, I really want an 89, 9 11. I really want an 89 9. It’s gotta be the turbo. Gotta get the turbo.

Well, all of a sudden, everybody had the same thought, so they all started buying ’em. So the value started going up. So the next thing you know, all I can do is afford a nine 11 sc. Oh my God, I gotta get my sc, I gotta get an I S C. The next thing you know, the nine 11 SC is a $60,000 car and I can’t afford it.

So now I’m looking at what I think these SLS are gonna do the same thing. Your four 50 and certainly your five sixties are stratospheric at this point. I think the three 80 is your safe bet. You’re gonna grab one of those and they will go up in value. Because everybody wants that [00:59:00] body style. It gets to a point the engine and the performance don’t really matter after a while.

People just want the look, they want the enjoyment, they want all that stuff. I think you’d pick a really, really good winner by going with a three 80 s l if of course you don’t want a DC No, what can I say?

William Ross: You know, obviously I had the three 80 on the bottom end of it, but the one that I kinda like to step up, but it’s going into the four 50 S L C, you get the coop.

That’s a great car because it’s a hard top coup. I mean, it’s a gorgeous looking car. I mean, I really like those myself. I think it’s great.

Don Weberg: And you know, William, back when the SLCs were new, that was Mercedes’s most expensive model. Yep. Was that SS l c? Yeah. That was the most premium car that you could get from Mercedes.

And today they’re, they’re cheap.

William Ross: Oh yeah. I think they’re sharp. That one almost probably didn’t have a manual on those, but do an engine swap. To do a transmission swap. I mean, it’s a fun, sporty car. It’s, you know, it’s small. It’s tight, you know. But I know, I dig. I think they’re great.

Mountain Man Dan: Well, a big thing to Don’s point is people looking to buy these cars.

It’s not always about the performance aspect of it. It’s more of like the nostalgia. [01:00:00] ’cause it’s the memories of those times, and it doesn’t have to be the fastest sportiest car. A big thing for any car buyers getting up in their forties and older. A lot of these cars. We couldn’t afford his kids when we saw ’em.

So, you know, you saw ’em on TV shows and stuff you could’ve never dreamed as a kid of owning it. And now it is a possibility. That’s why the performance isn’t what matters.

Don Weberg: You know, Tanya has one right behind her and, okay, Tanya, all fairness. I don’t know what’s been done to your cars. Probably freaked out to hell in high water, but like I was saying about Uncle Howard’s Audi, it couldn’t get out of its own way.

It really, really couldn’t. But man, I loved looking at that car. I did. And I actually liked driving that car. It was just a nice car to cruise around in. You know, look at the Ferrari 3 0 8 in its day. Damn nice performer. Really nice performer. But it was just five, six years later, the Corvette had run circles around it,

Crew Chief Eric: and that’s just it.

The eighties was weird because if you were making. 200 horse. You were like a God. And then it was like the Porsche had 2 25, right? You’re like, [01:01:00] oh. And then yeah, Corvette comes outta left field with like 300 and change in the ZR one and all that stuff, and you’re like 300 now, dude, your grandma’s Camry has 300 horsepower in it.

It’s freaking nuts to Dan’s point. But the VR six was around since the late eighties when it was developed. The VR six made 172 horsepower. It was a hot rod in the Colorado when it came out. That’s all you need. I can merge with no problem with 125 horsepower. You know what I mean? It’s like why Miatas are fun.

They make a whopping like 102 wheel horsepower. They just give you so much. Feedback. They’re so analog and I think that’s what’s cool about eighties cars is like we talked about in the intro, there’s a lot of really whizzbang electronics because we were embracing the second space age, but the cars didn’t have any nannies.

They didn’t have any assists, could still get a manual transmission. They were far fagan. Right. The whole campaign and the, the joy of driving, that’s what I look forward to every time I get into, you know, I’ll mark two G T I or I get into an [01:02:00] old Ferrari or Porsche or whatever it is. It’s just, it brings me back to when driving was driving.

You can’t be talking on your cell phone and ordering DoorDash going down the road. You gotta drive. Well, and

Don Weberg: yeah, you really do. And you hit that 200 horsepower mark. And isn’t it funny that Corvette, if I remember correctly, the, even the 82 Corvette was still, I think at one 90, or was it at two 10? Had it broken 200 At that point,

Crew Chief Eric: that was like breaking the stratosphere, getting to those numbers.

Not

Mark Shank: even close in 82, right? I think it was 180, 1 70.

Mountain Man Dan: They said 200 horsepower at 4,200 RRP M in 1980. Out of

Crew Chief Eric: how many liters, Dan?

Mountain Man Dan: The three 50 at that time was the standard engine had 200 horsepower at 4,200 rpm.

Don Weberg: Okay, and is that the crossfire or is that the standard four barrel? Do we know?

Mountain Man Dan: That would’ve probably been in 82.

Don Weberg: That was the first year for the crossfire, the cross failure. They were only failures if you messed with them who didn’t

Crew Chief Eric: mess with ’em or drove them. Yeah, or drove. Yeah. I was gonna say,

Mark Shank: well, yeah, that’s up to you in the warranty if you’re gonna drive it. If you turned them on, they had maintenance issues, just don’t turn ’em on.

Jeff Willis: [01:03:00] Then there’s the opposite of all this, obviously, like you’re saying, Eric, the eighties was iconic for dial and the right smell of a car and the feel of it, but towards the late eighties, one of the last on my list. Is something that’s a sleeper. It’s like the exact opposite. It’s kind of ugly. Four-door sedan, 89 Dodge Spirit rt.

Oh man, you just lit up Don.

Crew Chief Eric: Here we go.

Jeff Willis: 229 horsepower. Did the quarter mile in 14 and a half seconds. It was the fastest four door in the entire country and nobody knew it. So that made that

Crew Chief Eric: cool.

Don Weberg: Yeah. And the funny thing about that car Dodge tried to promote it. They tried to sell it. They tried to get it out there.

And who was its number one enemy? The Taurus. S H o. Oh yeah. And for some reason everybody loved the S H O, but not so much the spirit. And yet the spirit was a hair quicker. A hair faster.

Jeff Willis: Well, and the Ford Escort also had that, the RS Turbo something or other. The cozy, yeah. That was a four door too that, I mean, it looked [01:04:00] exactly like the regular four door escort, but it would blow your doors off.

Crew Chief Eric: Princess Diana drove one of those, by the way.

Jeff Willis: I did not know that.

Crew Chief Eric: Cool. Should a black one. It’s awesome.

William Ross: Yeah, just full plate. 80 grand. Yep. At auction. Yeah. And everybody

Crew Chief Eric: goes crazy over the Rs. Zizi, hatchback, Liftback, whatever you wanna call it. The Homologated car. Yeah. But that little sedan that Jeff is talking about, that’s a hot ticket item.

And you can get those from England. Now, nobody wanted them,

Don Weberg: but if you wanna get a little weirder, Jeff, walk with me into the weird Hall of fame.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no, here we go. 88 Nova twin cam. That’s where he’s going now. ’cause we have to have something from GM in there.

Don Weberg: No, no. It’s another Chrysler. It’s another Chrysler.

Okay. The Leber G T S.

Jeff Willis: Oh, I remember those. I haven’t even heard of that.

Don Weberg: And that my friend was a hatchback and a four door, so it fits right in with this whole hot hatch thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Wasn’t that the same as the Lancer or whatever they had come out with, which was the Plain Jane version?

Don Weberg: Yeah, I think they shared a lot of the same body.

Yeah, we’re talking 1984 ish, 85 ish. [01:05:00] Chrysler had the G T s, and it was this little hatchback, 2.2 liter, you know, the four cylinder turbo, like everything on a K car chassis. It was really, really amazing to watch this car, zero to 60 quarter mile top end, hanging onto Crown Victoria’s, hanging onto Caprices, hanging onto the Grand Furies, all those cars, and yet it’s doing it with.

28 miles to the gallon.

Jeff Willis: Especially if John Voight was driving it. John, there we go. John Voight baby. Do we have any Seinfeld fans in the house? Yes, right here. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Mark Shank: And the funny thing, it’s not really a hatch. It’s like the original Audi A seven or something. Is it actually a trunk?

I’d never heard of it. I’m just looking at the pictures. It’s got that kind of stretched kind of lift back slash hatch type.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the lancer body. They shared that and they called it a LeBaron and they beefed it up. I remember as a little kid, and I think Tanya was a little too young to remember, but we actually went to the local Dodge dealer.

He went and test drove a lancer At the time they were looking for a car for my mom or [01:06:00] whatever, and he came back and he hated it so much. And I don’t know what possessed the salesman. And I’ll never forget this. He put my dad in a minivan. The Chrysler minivan was a big deal at the time by Coco’s thing.

Right. And my dad was like, get me the F out of this. And we went straight to the Volkswagen dealership and then bought the gray Rocco that we had like forever. I remember such a vivid thing. ’cause my dad was so like explicitly upset about being put into a minivan. It was just like, no way. No how? Right.

Don Weberg: Well, you know, going on the four door hatch, one car I’ve always wanted, and you’ll be happy, Eric, it’s not a Chrysler product. Nowhere near it. Oh

Crew Chief Eric: Lord.

Don Weberg: The Sterling 8 27,

Crew Chief Eric: oh, and there was the 8 25 and the 8 25 sl. There was a bunch of ones that came here to the states that everybody forgot about. I like that because it’s the British Accord.

It’s literally a Honda that they Reba as a sterling. I remember seeing those running around as a kid. They were neat. They were different.

Don Weberg: As one owner put it to me, [01:07:00] everything Honda lasted forever. Everything sterling fell apart.

Crew Chief Eric: The one thing I will give the sterling credit for is ushering in the Integra and the legend, because it opened the door for Acura once Sterling sort of failed here in the United States.

Then you notice right after the Acura showed up and everybody’s like, wait, wait, what is this? What’s, what’s this thing?

Don Weberg: I thought they both came over right around 87 and I think that’s part of what killed the sterling was Acura sales were so much higher

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Don Weberg: Than Sterling thought. That was how it went down.

But yeah, customers like the one I’m talking about who praised everything Honda or Acura and then poo-pooed everything. Sterling is a regular consumer. You’re thinking to yourself, okay, so the message here is just go buy the Honda and get it over with, or go buy the Acura and get it over with. It’s a quality car.

But yeah, and, and even that, I mean, if we’re gonna go down that direction, the legend or the uh, Integra, either one of those car to be fantastic, what should I buy candidates? And one of ’em is a hatchback.

Crew Chief Eric: And in that same realm, the [01:08:00] original Eagle Talon, you know, since we talked about the conquest early on, that was another early all-wheel drive production car.

Yeah. And they were hot turbo, you know, shared with the rest of the Chrysler platform and all that. They’re neat cars. The later generation Eclipse Eagles are a lot nicer, but those early ones are still kind of cool. And when you see one, you’re like, as long as it’s not a Plymouth laser, you’re just like, oh, that’s really neat.

You know?

Don Weberg: Yeah. We had a friend who owned a Honda dealer, so of course everybody in the family except the mother who drove a Mercedes, everybody else drove a Honda. And I remember his daughter was my sister’s best friend. They’re still best friend, and they had a cabin up in a place called Big Bear, which is up in the southern California mountains.

And the road up there, there’s two main roads to get up there, and one of ’em is just kind of a switchback back and forth and back and forth. It’s really annoying. The other one is the old more curvy road. That one’s a lot more fun. And I remember her going up there one weekend. She had a five liter on her butt.

She said, it was so close that in my mirror I could barely see the tops [01:09:00] of the windshield wipers. So that’s how close these guys were. And so she just kept pushing the little Honda, pushing, pushing, pushing. And she said it was kind of funny because you’d hit those curves and the Mustang would really back off.

But the Honda, no problem. It just charged right through it. The Mustang had to back off a little bit and then regain ground on the straightaway. Typical David and Goliath situation, but that’s another great one. The Honda Prelude, if you can find one from the eighties, it hasn’t been completely trashed.

The Honda Prelude was a really, really nice car or wheel steering baby

William Ross: car. Yeah, that was steering. Yeah.

Don Weberg: Now I found one of those, and I don’t remember where, but it was gorgeous. It was a four wheel steering, five speed red black interior. Si absolutely gorgeous. And yeah, it went for 60 grand.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s insane.

Don Weberg: Obviously there is some eyes open to look for these cars, but like we were all saying, do you really need the high performance? Do you really need the hot? Find one that’s just clean. Find one that’s been preserved, go preserve it some more and enjoy it again. [01:10:00] Show up to cars and coffee in a Honda Prelude.

I can almost guarantee you’ll be the only one there.

Mountain Man Dan: One thing that was big about the eighties is like you were mentioning, like they had options, like four wheel staring like the eighties I think was a time when they were trying to push boundaries with technology and concepts and stuff. A lot of what we do is what should I buy?

But I’m gonna throw out one of what you shouldn’t buy. During the eighties, the Cadillac had the 4.1 liter V eight in their cars that at that time had the cylinder deactivation, which, oh yeah. When you mentioned Honda, that was one of the things, probably like five, 10 years ago, Honda was promoting this variable cylinders type stuff thing like it was something new.

I’m like, Cadillac did that back in the eighties and it was horrible. ’cause the computer technology just wasn’t efficient at that time. And I worked on one, but it was like in so many of the different cars they had. My thing is if someone were to buy one of those cars, I would say yank that crap out of it and just throw naturally aspirations there.

Car

Crew Chief Eric: on there. Yeah.

Mountain Man Dan: It was a nightmare to deal with and trying to fix it. I spent weeks trying to get one fixed one time and when I finally got it running, it still didn’t run as good as it should.

Mark Shank: My B M W does that now just all by itself.

Don Weberg: That’s a

Crew Chief Eric: story for another day. [01:11:00] Four at a time

Don Weberg: though. You know, the 4 6 8 was bad when Cadillac themselves ditched it and they thought, we’re not going back to this.

And what did they bring out after that? The 4.5 liter I think was after that. And then after that was a 4.9 liter and then after that was a 4.6 liter, which was the North Star. I’ll tell you, I got a buddy who is to ante or actually Cadillac, what I am to Chrysler tc. He just loves these cars and what he is always told me is, yeah, the North Star is the sexy sister but she has more mental problems than you can shake a stick at.

She said, really? The one you wanna do is get that 4.9 liter. He said that 4.9 liters absolutely bulletproof. But the four six is almost as bad as you’re four one. And I’ve met a lot of North Star guys and they swear by these things, but they also tell me that we, yeah, when they break, bring your wallet because it’s gonna put your B M W to shame.

Crew Chief Eric: I

Don Weberg: wanna go back

Crew Chief Eric: to the Honda conversation for a second ’cause there’s some interesting splinters here, especially ’cause you started with Sterling and we didn’t go [01:12:00] down Merx or four Ti Ford, Sierra, Cosworth, that whole thing, which I find those cars fascinating and you can do vi eight swaps on ’em and all sorts of fun stuff there too.

And the Sierra Chassis’s great.

Mark Shank: Is there anything you can’t do a V eight swap on

Crew Chief Eric: Ella’s Swap the world, my man. And if you can’t Ella’s swap a JAMA V six in it. That’s the answer. But you talked about Honda and the obvious choice is A C R X. But that’s the obvious choice. So where my mind goes from there, and William hit on it, he said the 3 23 G L C, which a buddy of mine had a Mazda 3, 2, 3, and obviously the king of them was the G T X, the all-wheel drive.

Those things are super cool. They’re super rare, all that. But you can import them now from Japan if you want, right? We have all these options, but it takes me down another road. It takes me down the road of Toyota and we can begin to talk about the starlet. We can talk about the Corolla, FX 16. We can talk about even the second generation m mr two, which came out in 87.

Not here in the US but it started [01:13:00] coming out in 87, even though it’s a quintessentially nineties vehicle. But the m R two is in this camp. There’s a lot of really interesting things from Toyota that I think get overlooked.

Executive Producer Tania: Everything from Toyota in the eighties was better than Honda. Just like today, everything from Toyota is better than Honda.

Oh wow,

William Ross: man. Oh. Sway.

Executive Producer Tania: You had the Corolla G T S, you had the AE 86, you had the M R two, you had the nine other things you just listed. And what did Honda have? Turx and the Prelude and a civic. Woo.

Crew Chief Eric: The civic wasn’t that great. Yeah, the

Mark Shank: Integra,

Executive Producer Tania: they had the Celica.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s true. And the Celica Supra.

Executive Producer Tania: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a lot in that Toyota camp to look at.

Executive Producer Tania: And for the longest time, Toyota got boring and there was nothing that was interesting. And now they’re interesting again. They seem to flip flop with Honda, where Honda got interesting and now Honda’s boring.

Crew Chief Eric: And there’s also some really cool Toyota vans that you can import from Japan right now. Like the high ace, the high lux on the pickup side.

There’s a lot of really neat stuff in Toyota. And remember Toyota [01:14:00] reliability? They’re not burning the world down in terms of performance. But a Toyota from the eighties, I’d hop in and drive it tomorrow. No issues. Let’s not forget the Toyota pickup from back to the future. That thing is sick. It’s still awesome to this day.

Don Weberg: I hate to say it, but being a Toyota pickup guy myself, I almost, almost would rather have that than the DeLorean. That’s how much I like that truck.

Crew Chief Eric: That truck is a, I think the Roman votes, it’s all the thumbs up on that truck. That thing, those are still awesome today.

Don Weberg: 22 re four wheel drive extra cab.

William Ross: You show up at cars of coffee and that that thing will get swamped.

Over a lot of things there. That thing is gorgeous. Designate are sweet.

Don Weberg: It is interesting though what Tanya was saying. It’s interesting how Toyota and Honda always flip flop.

Mark Shank: I would like to throw out an idea. I have my background on an R 32 gorgeous car. It’s entire production run. 89 to 94 is almost entirely in our window here.

They had two other generations that launched in the nineties. Your R 33, your R 34, or your more [01:15:00] quintessential nineties car. So even though most of these were made in the nineties, if you look at it, it kind of looks like an eighties car. Just styling wise. It looks like an eighties car. I think that an R 32 and everybody knows that’s the one you actually want to take to the racetrack if you’re gonna do it, would be a really interesting entrant into this category.

I mean, right. I mean, Nissan had three generations of this car in the nineties, but this one I think I would argue, even though the 19 89 300 zx, I would argue was a nineties car, I could argue that this is kind of the king of the eighties that just kind of came out right at the end and defined the decade.

The poor man’s 9, 5, 9. Here you go. This is what you do. Obviously it wasn’t for sale in the us but

Jeff Willis: Mark is one of those. The Sylvia, is that one of those? The Sylvia is like the later two forties. Don might know this for the G T R, you know the great grandfather of that, the Japanese princes? Yeah. Those were very, very nice cars.

My mom had the first and only Japanese princes in California. It was a [01:16:00] 67 Japanese prince, and she said it was just trash.

Don Weberg: Yeah,

Jeff Willis: yeah,

Don Weberg: yeah. They, they really were kind of recycled beer cans. I mean, that was always the joke about old Japanese cars. I think that’s why today whenever you see one, it’s almost like, take off your hat and give it a salute, because this little guy survived and they were not meant to survive.

They were, I don’t know what the Japanese were thinking. If it was, they literally wanted them to fall apart or if they were thinking, oh, we gotta get ’em together as cheaply as possible to beat the Americans.

Mark Shank: I grew up with 19 71 2 40 Z in the garage that, I mean, we replaced every body panel on that car.

Over time, just like in a 10 year period, it was kind of, yeah,

Don Weberg: they, they rested coming off the assembly line and the dashboards cracked coming off the assembly line. I mean the ones that survive. That’s why I say whenever you see a Japanese car you’re like, holy cow, where did that come from? That’s pretty cool.

Jeff, your mom had a prince. That’s pretty awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: I wanna speak to the R 32 G T R. Go for it. I have instructing experience in one at [01:17:00] Pocono and so I spent a couple days coaching one and I will say I was always in love with the R 32. I think it’s a fantastic car. It’s just every angle you look at it, to Mark’s point, it’s a little quirky.

It’s got that eighties feel to it, but it’s sort of nineties, but it’s sort of not. You look at the interior and you’re not really sure what period it’s from, but when you get in it, it’s a performer. It’s shockingly fast, like it’s deceptively quick and it’s very agile. A point and shoot. It’s super analog.

It’s screams eighties from a driving perspective and it was one of those moments where I could say I got in my hero and I walked away. Completely satisfied. Versus a lot of other hero cars, which have been just terrible disappointments. The R 32 was amazing, but everybody wants a G T R I. And I looked into getting one of these a long time ago.

’cause there’s companies here in the States, like in Florida and whatnot that import these cars all the time. But if you turn your eyes to the uk, you can get the slightly tuned down version and then [01:18:00] modify it later and get a G T S out of Britain. It’s all the same stuff. It’s all the same appearance package, slightly de-tuned motor, and they sell for a lot less and they made a lot more GTSs than they made GTRs.

Something to consider there. I also wrote in a four-door version of one of those, which was kind of funky, imported from Japan. Again, had some experience with these cars. If you can afford A G T R do it, they’re fantastic. Now to your point, mark, the joke is, The R 32 is the one you take to the track. The R 33 is the one you buy, your wife and the R 34 is the one you take to the car show.

That still, I think, holds true even today. The R 32 is the best performing out of the bunch.

Don Weberg: Going a little down Nissan Lane again, if I may, if there was a car when Infinity first came out, and I’ve always liked it. I always thought it was a cool car, but unfortunately not too many people did. And I believe it was called I 30.

It was a little convertible four seater and it was a coop four seater.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah,

Don Weberg: I dunno if you remember those.

Crew Chief Eric: I remember the I 20, but not the I [01:19:00] 30. Oh, I remember

William Ross: the I 30. Me and daughter we’re the elder statesman here. So

Don Weberg: you are not talking loud

William Ross: enough. I can’t hear you. Is anyone in there? I don’t see you.

They’re a decent car. But man, they had some great motors in those. They were quick cars, you know? Was it the um, Q 45 was the large one. The I 30 was your, yeah, so I mean they had some decent stuff.

Don Weberg: It’s funny, Eric, you know, you bring up driving your heroes and you’re gonna be disappointed. I’ll tell you, they had the Q 45 T, which gave you the special wheels and the little arrow kit and whatever.

Anyway, I remember I got to drive one of those cutest priests. That thing was insane. It was one of those cars where you step on the gas and you’re gone right now, very spirited for a 4,500 pound car. But what got me about that car, and this is where it gets weird, it shifts into second and just as about to go into third, I floor it ’cause I’m stupid.

I couldn’t believe it. You know, you hear about this, these hot rodders talking about, oh, I broke the wheels loose the second year. Lemme tell you something. That thing Fishtailed for a quarter of a block trying to catch itself. [01:20:00] I was blown away how much power that car had. Now obviously that wasn’t what Infinity meant, that car to do, right?

It wanted it to have some guts that wanted it to be comfortable, effortless moving, et cetera. And those early infinities from the late eighties, early nineties were fantastic cars. Now a contender for that, and in my opinion, is a better car, is the SC 400 by Lexus. Mm-hmm. Which I’m not sure exactly what year those came out.

So it might break our 89 90 barrier, but somebody said something about going all the way to 93. So I’m. Banking on that for saving me.

Crew Chief Eric: I see where you’re going there. And then in Japan, they had the Soer, I think it was called, which was like the same car and all that, which was available earlier. But going back to the Infinity for a minute, I kind of look at it and you know, you talked on other episodes about being a posr and stuff like that.

And the problem with those early infinities is I’d rather have a Maxima, because the Maxima, when I show up with a Maxima, it goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I show up with an Infinity. And you’re like, what? What is this? It’s like a ripoff, Maxima, [01:21:00] Altima, whatever. It just I, I don’t know. It doesn’t speak to me in the same way that it does for you.

Mountain Man Dan: So for the maximas of that generation, I don’t know why, but it became like everybody I hung out with, we used to call ’em the crack maxis because it seemed like all the crack heads and crack dealers would drive Maximus. Mm-hmm. No, last we just started calling ’em Crack Maxis.

Don Weberg: Yeah. You know, the Maxima was a great car.

It was very powerful. It was called the Four-Door Sports Car for a reason, if I’m not mistaken. I think it was the Maxima that actually encouraged Honda to decide, fine, we’ll build a V six and put it in the Accord. And the Accord quietly cleaned the Maximus clock. Yeah. In everything. And it never said we’re a sports car.

It never said we’re performance oriented. It never said anything to that degree. But it was quieter. It was more comfortable. It had more features to it. It was more expensive, but it was a better car all the way around. Even in handling, which is hysterical because everybody knows those V six accords especially want a nose plow.

They, well, Eric, what do you call that? Is that called under steer? Mm-hmm. [01:22:00] When you turn the wheel and the car’s still going forward. Is that what that’s called? So they understood like crazy. That was my fear, Eric. You were there. When we raced that Corvette in Pennsylvania with my wife’s accord, my big fear was it’s raining, the road is wet.

If we gotta turn that wheel, we’re screwed. ’cause this Honda’s just gonna keep going straight. That’s all it wants to do. So I see what you’re saying about the Maxima, but I don’t know, I mean, I think we’d have to put that to a test because I think the Infinity would especially, again, consider you are a little older than maybe the demographic we’re trying to talk to.

Yeah. What should I buy? I’ve got my first little bit of money here. I can buy something. If you tell to buy a Nissan Maxima, guess what? You’ve got a 20, 25 year old. Nissan Maxima. Okay. Kind of cool in its own right. But when you got the Infinity, you’ve got something rare, unique, but there was really nothing on that car that was Maxima.

It had a bespoke V eight, it had a bespoke transmission, it had a bespoke interior. It was all infinity. The Q 45, not [01:23:00] the I or M 30,

Crew Chief Eric: the M 45, I like, that’s like the Brutus.

Mark Shank: Yeah. De M 45 was good looking. I can’t let the Q 45 comment go though. Like obviously that car just needed a new tire. Like if you’re, yeah, if you’re like, if you’re breaking loose into going into third gear, I mean, yeah,

Don Weberg: right.

Well that thing was insane. I could not believe the power that car had it. It was insane. They had three

William Ross: 40 or something like that. Yeah, it had 300 plus horsepower in that thing.

Mark Shank: I mean, not back then. More like two 60, but fair enough.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, they were all 2 47 on paper for a long time. Especially in the nineties.

Right. So

Don Weberg: well remember whether if some guy said, if horsepower tells you how hard you’re gonna hit the wall and torque tells you how far you’re gonna push it, push

Crew Chief Eric: it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I,

Don Weberg: I gotta tell you, if that infinity hit a wall, it’s gonna push pretty damn hard. That thing had nothing but torque.

Crew Chief Eric: Tanya’s point earlier about, you know, Toyota and Honda Flip-flopping, Nissan is in bed with Renault and they have been for now 20 years. I sometimes wonder when I see an infinity on the road, I’m like, oh, they still make cars. Like they’re still doing that whole [01:24:00] luxury thing of Nissan. But I feel like Maxima.

Is due for a resurgence.

Executive Producer Tania: The Maxima has been around. You can buy a 2023 Nissan Maxima.

Crew Chief Eric: Wait, they still make them? Yeah, they’re

Mark Shank: still in existence. My stand corrected. I think they have a branding problem. They have a branding challenge.

Executive Producer Tania: They never stopped production. And they haven’t stopped production since the first one in 81.

Crew Chief Eric: I thought it disappeared.

Mountain Man Dan: It’s like the eighth or ninth generation are up to now of ’em, but

Crew Chief Eric: it looks like the Centra Ultima, they all look the same now. So thats why I don’t look, I don’t even notice they’re doing

Mark Shank: the German model sausages of different lengths.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s

Jeff Willis: really good.

Don Weberg: Mark is absolutely right. Nissan has a major branding challenge and unfortunately so does Infinity. Infinity. When they got rid of that Q 45, that first generation, that was it. They sort of slipped into obscurity. There was nothing left. It was like that comedian who has one joke and that’s it.

You know? It was [01:25:00] crazy. It really, really was

Mountain Man Dan: one of the best Nissan uh, sales pitches ever. Was the fact of the one where dogs love trucks.

Don Weberg: Yes, absolutely. Only on the whole Japanese thing though, if we can get off the Nissan train, the Lexus SC 400,

Mark Shank: the SC three hundred’s, the cool one, that’s the one with the two jz.

No one cares about the 400 what? Four hundreds a dog. The 300 has the two JayZ. That’s all anybody cares about. And a manual. Yeah, get manual. Yeah.

Don Weberg: If you can find one. If you can find one. Yeah. Fair enough. You can swap it though. You could. But my point is though, the SC whatever, 400, 300, whichever one you prefer, that was a very, very nice car.

Very, very nice car. First day. And you talk about cheap, once again, you’re getting a car that’s gonna go three, 400,000 miles no problem. And you’re not paying very much to get into one. They’re fine, fine automobiles. And of course they got the big brother. If you want that mafiaa look, you’ve got the LSS 400,

Crew Chief Eric: but we can go the complete opposite of that.

If you wanna spend a shit ton of money, look like you’re going a thousand miles an hour and the car never runs, you can buy a Maserati by turbo.

Mark Shank: [01:26:00] Did they make it after 83? It was 81 to what? 85 I thought. Or 86, something like that. That was 86.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s an eighties car if there ever was one. Fair enough. Yeah.

It really is. I’ll,

Don Weberg: I’ll give you that. Many of you have never heard of this car and I forgive you for it.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’t say zuzu impulse. We’re not talking about the impulse. It’s not happening.

Don Weberg: You mute yourself there, boy. Now we are going to talk about another Toyota.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, now you have my attention.

Don Weberg: Finest Toyota ever built.

It’s all built by hand. Don’t say starlet.

Crew Chief Eric: The hot chi. Go

Don Weberg: no. Toyota Century.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah. That’s like the precursor to the Lexus that thing’s massive.

Don Weberg: They still make it. And in fact, over in Japan, they are still considered the ing of Japanese cars. They, they blow Lexus on it reminds

Crew Chief Eric: me of the old Mercedes, like the grocers or wherever they were called.

The four 60. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Don Weberg: yeah, exactly.

William Ross: Mirrors out on the winglets,

Crew Chief Eric: the diplomat machines, right? Those, yeah. Well, the funny

Don Weberg: thing is, if you look at their history, they had V [01:27:00] twelves, they had v eights, they had inline sixes. They had all these crazy engines. But what I always got a kick outta these cars is the Americans, especially, I don’t know about the Europeans, but the Americans especially, we love our leather interior.

Man. You give us a leather interior and we got ourselves a luxurious car till the end of time right there, the Japanese, if you want leather in that car, you not only pay a premium for it, you’ve gotta wait because they have to get the material, because otherwise you’re gonna get a cloth interior. In fact, that cloth is not just cloth.

No, sir, it is wool. Now why is it wool? Why even do cloth? Because it’s quieter.

Mark Shank: When you do the leather in that car, they only put it in the back because the person riding in the back doesn’t wanna have to hear the driver squeaking on their leather getting into the driver’s seat. That’s right. It’s, it’s actually pretty awesome.

Don Weberg: Cars are amazing. In fact, there’s a great article, and I forget who wrote it, it was Car and Driver or somebody, but they toured the Century Factory and it is, you know, you talk about Bentley building their cars and Aston Martin and they’re in these little [01:28:00] shops and they got these little hammers and they’re hammering away.

That is seriously the Toyota Century factory. You’ve got people who have been working there for 30 years. You’ve got people who have been apprenticing there for 10 because they want to work at Century. It is such an honor to work there. Their paint guy, oh, the paint is incredible on their cars. But again, going to that 25 year, we can import it over here.

Now the century falls into that school. It really does.

Mark Shank: I actually agree. I think that’ll be a really cool, cool damn import to grab

Executive Producer Tania: would

Mark Shank: be one. I

Executive Producer Tania: think I have a picture of one somewhere that I took in Texas on the road.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. In.

William Ross: There’s a guy in California, he imports those things.

Brings in a couple a year or something like that to resell ’em.

Don Weberg: That would be a fun car to have. And if you could find it from somebody who’s already specializing in importing it, that’d be fantastic.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. So let’s take this another way. Let’s go back to Jeff. Jeff, what’s on your list? I know you got a list.

Jeff Willis: Honestly, I’ve exhausted it there. Oh. Oh

Crew Chief Eric: dang. ’cause I got a couple more.

Jeff Willis: The other stuff that [01:29:00] I had on here, everybody already mentioned and I’ve gotten through the, the whole thing. The only thing that I haven’t talked about is kind of the more obvious when you and I have talked, you know, I’m a Porsche guy and so the 9 6 8, the 9 2 8, the 9 4 4 turbo, if anybody mentions a 9 1 4, a 9, 2 4, I will poop in my hand and give it to you.

’cause those things are trash.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow. Well I

Don Weberg: actually, Jeff, I’d like to see that. So nine 14,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s like monkeys at the zoo. It’s like,

Jeff Willis: for instance, the 9 4 4, you can still get a very decent 9 4 4 turbo. 10, 12

Crew Chief Eric: grand.

William Ross: Oh yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: I think you’re better off. As we’ve talked about with Kevin Duffy, a 9 2 4 s or a base 9 44.

The 9 44 turbos are just plagued with problems. But I agree with you. They are, they’re a beautiful body. There’s the whole rivalry between the second gen RX seven, the 44 turbo. If I had my druthers and I was gonna pick a 9 44 turbo, I would get the last of the last and get a Cabrio lay [01:30:00] and really just spend the money because they’re so cool.

And they were so limited production, and I think they’re better looking than the 9 68 convertible. 9 68 is a beautiful coop. It doesn’t make it work in the convertible realm. And the 9 44 turbo look really, really slick. And it’s just so different. But if we’re gonna go that way, kind of talk about convertible sports COEs.

There’s a couple British cars we’ve forgotten about. We could go down and venture X js. Well, not even that. No, I got a thumbs up from

Jeff Willis: Don that we’re

Crew Chief Eric: on

Jeff Willis: the same wavelength there.

Don Weberg: You, you know me, I’m always, I’m always itching for warm beer and a lot of troubles, you know?

No way I can get a warm beer. I’m happy.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, if you like that, then you’ll definitely like the Triumph t R seven. No, my

Don Weberg: dear boy. No, those are rubbish.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay. Then if you don’t like that. What about the T V R Tasman two 80 I,

Don Weberg: is there a way to turn off his microphone?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, [01:31:00] I got to drive a Tasman two 80 I, they’re really neat.

They are cobbled together, you know, Handbuilt and black pool and the whole nine yards. It’s a part spin car. Some of it’s Mercedes, you know, it’s a Ford Corina engine. The suspension is some borrowed thing from Lotus. You know, all this kind of stuff. They’re so unique. It’s a super light car. They’re actually kind of fun to drive.

Again, very analog. If you like that wedgie convertible look and you want something different, the Tasman two 80, I don’t sell for a whole heck of a lot. I know the guy that sold the one that I drove, it was like a dark metallic brown, which was a super interesting, very seventies color, but I think he sold it for like 10 grand.

He want something unique, something British and Ford powered, which means it’ll actually run T V R is something to consider.

Mountain Man Dan: So for British cars, I know it’s not rare, but the Austin Minis were made through the eighties. Yeah. And they started then went way after. And if you want to talk about a car that’s plentiful for parts because there’s plenty of ’em out there, a bunch of my British friends hate the fact [01:32:00] I always called it the British Volkswagen Bug.

’cause in my opinion, it’s what it was. It was, you know, easily built and everything. The cool thing about those cars is they’ve got such history and prestige to ’em with the rally racing that they did, as well as the fact that one point in time, I don’t know if they still do or not, but I wanna say it was late eighties, early two thousands, they were still holding the fact that those cars could hold some of the highest GSS in corners for the uh, how well it gripped the ground of all manufactured cars out.

So something as cheap as that, being able to pull more Gs in some of these supercars and turns is amazing and having owed many of them and driven them, I can vouch for the fact they will hang in turns. Very well

Crew Chief Eric: see. He made all his friends angry by saying it was the British bug. You should have told him it was the British Fiat 500 and see how they got really upset.

Mark Shank: We would be remiss not to talk about, I mean, if, I guess if you love maintenance the eighties through this 93 cycle of Aston Martin, some of that stuff looks so much cooler than it once did.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. I

Mark Shank: mean, at least to [01:33:00] me, the barrages and Vantages of that era, when I was younger, I thought that they looked like hot garbage.

And the DB seven was, you know, the first good looking car that Aston Martin had made since the sixties. But as you know, grown up and times change or whatever, like I think they look pretty damn cool, pretty muscly, like really kind of sophisticated muscle cars. A very kind of niche of their own. And you can pick ’em up even just using bat as pricing in the 50 ish grand range.

And

William Ross: well then, then if we’re going on bridge, what about, you know, uh, Lotus,

Mark Shank: which one. Ri the ultimate eighties cocaine car. Yeah, the Lotus Esprit. Is

Crew Chief Eric: the esprit turbo. Really? An eighties car. It was designed to build the seventies. I

Mark Shank: think so. Culturally. Culturally, it’s, it was, and it was made until 2004 or something, but culturally it’s an eighties car.

Yeah. I put it as an eighties car. It’s the Dodge Viper of the eighties.

William Ross: You drive that around and someone’s gonna look at, especially someone that’s not a car, they’re gonna like go, wow, look at that. You know? It’s got [01:34:00] very unique styling to it. I mean, it didn’t change much over its whole span of its life.

I dunno, I’m a fan of them. I, I think they look great. Even four cylinder, it still has got a little pep to it.

Crew Chief Eric: I feel like there is a clear generational separation in the espree, and I’m not talking about the V eight esprees ’cause obviously they rounded them up. They made ’em very nineties looking, you know, all those kinds of things.

But the early cars, up until like 84, 85 with the turbo esprees, they really changed ’em. I think they got better as they got older until the VAs came out. There’s something weird about the early, let’s call it the James Bond Lotus with those kind of like ragger wheels that it came with and, and all that stuff.

I, I’m just not a fan of those, to Mark’s point, what I call the second generation spree. Definitely an eighties car, but it was still holding onto that wedge look of the jpa and the Kunta and like all that stuff that started in the seventies. It’s an eighties car sports car, but a high supercar, I guess you could consider it at that time.

Still too disco for me.

William Ross: Got a very unique sound [01:35:00] to it too though. Yes, that’s the one thing, it’s got a very distinctive sound of it

Mark Shank: and it’s fully submersible, which is. Pretty unique if you’re in a tuxedo.

Crew Chief Eric: But if I have to pick between a Lotus Esprit and a Ferrari 3 0 8, 3 28, and I will go as far as to give Don just a little bit of runway here and say the Manal.

I’d almost rather have one of those than the esprit.

Don Weberg: Oh, I would too. I have a manal and an esprit,

Crew Chief Eric: honestly. Yeah, I think so. Just because of the maintenance factor. The rarity of the espree. Oh, crack a windshield on Espree. Good luck. You gotta get ’em like made by some elf in the Midlands. It’s not gonna happen.

So it kind of scares me. That’s the Elfs are your friend. They work for warm beer. You were

Mark Shank: wandering around York being like, can anybody make a windshield? Right.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. Exactly. You know, there’s 1 97 year old guy who used to work for, you know, British Leland that can do it, but the obscurity of the Lotus stuff has always scared me away from those cars, and it’s still [01:36:00] prolific today.

When you look at the Elise, like you get the slightest crack in that clamshell, total, the whole car.

William Ross: That scares a lot of people. You know people. Oh, I love it. I love the Elise because they have a problem is it’s, yeah, there’s maintenance.

Crew Chief Eric: I love to drive someone else’s lotus. They’re perfect that way. You know what I mean?

Mountain Man Dan: Best rental car ever. To Mark’s point, he was saying, we’ve got older and look at these cars the way they looked back then, it’s like they’re more attractive now. And I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that when they came out from the factory, a lot of these cars, they didn’t pop very much. It was kind of dull looking, but as times went on, people painted ’em different colors, put different wheels on ’em, done different things to them.

It really brings out, I would say, like the true beauty of those cars. An example, I was looking at some of the, I think it was a vantage I was looking at online earlier. The pictures of it from the factory were ugly, but there was one that a guy cleaned up and everything. I was like, it’s a beautiful looking car.

But if you look at the factory picture of it, it was like, yeah, that’s crap. It’s weird how just little things can make a car look so much better and more attractive.

Crew Chief Eric: And I just recently had that experience with one of the weirdest cars. The SOB 900 Turbo. There’s one running [01:37:00] around that I’ve seen. You know, 90% of ’em are black and the whole nine yards.

And I drove one of those cars years ago and I thought they were quirky and weird and I just couldn’t get over the, the hotdog, Oscar Meyer Wiener mobile kind of styling that it has. But now I look at it, I go, those are really cool. You don’t see ’em anymore. They’re actually, the design language of the 900 was kind of ahead of its time.

It’s actually a really cool car. And that’s one I wanted to throw out there for people to consider is kind of look at the Swedes. If we give Don any more runway, we’re gonna be in this weird 8 57, 42 40, you know, going on about Boxy Volvos forever I, the

Don Weberg: 9,000 CD sob, 9,000 CD sob.

Crew Chief Eric: I was gonna let you go there because that’s a Opal Vectra, or one of those Reba,

Mountain Man Dan: which is a sob when I was a station over, when a guy had one and I used to love messing ’cause on those, the ignitions, which is in the center.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Mountain Man Dan: So we’d be going down the road and he’d come to the stop sign. I’d reach down and grab the key and pull it out and throw it out the window. Yeah. And he used to get [01:38:00] every time, because he’d have to pull the handbrake, get out, get the key, get it back in. Start out. He was like, do not do that again. I’m like, what?

But thousands as well. I actually owned one of those and it was a great car. The great thing about, it’s like in England, not many cars came with air conditioning ’cause it’s not common for ’em to have. That was one of the few cars when I got over there, had air conditioning. I was like, I loved it. So everybody used to love riding with me.

One of the summers I was there was one of the hottest they had in years and like old people were dying off like flies because of how much heat it was and they couldn’t handle it. And I had one of the few cars with air conditioning, so it was great for long trips and everybody used to love riding with me.

Crew Chief Eric: I was hoping somebody would trip over the SOB 9,000 landmine because if you look at the Vox halls and the opals that they were built on, no, he says no, it’s true. But if you look at Opal, which is a brand that was here in the seventies with Amman and a lot of other cars, if you kind of reach back in the eighties and you start looking at the Vectra, the Collibra, the Omega, there’s some actually [01:39:00] really neat opals in there that you could bring over.

Now because we’re again, outside of that statute of limitations for gray market cars, looking at some of these other German and British brands, it opens up some other options for collectors looking for something different.

Don Weberg: Yeah. And the Saab Volvo, either way you wanna go with it. Going back to your cars and coffees.

You’re probably not gonna see another one. Given the current audience of let’s say 20 somethings that are running around in those cars and coffees, they’ve likely never even seen a sob, 900, 9,000 or any of the numerous Volvos that have been built. You’re gonna have a car that’s gonna attract some attention, especially in the case of the 900, you’ve got a car that was engineered so strangely.

I mean the engine is in backward. What they were thinking, I don’t know if you’ve ever worked on one of their cars and I haven’t having seen enough of them. The accessibility is absolutely incredible as long as you don’t have to do that water pump. ’cause again, that water pump is up against the firewall.

So if you’re gonna do a water pump, the [01:40:00] easiest thing in the world to do is do a Porsche style and just

Crew Chief Eric: drop the engine.

Don Weberg: Yeah, just pull it out and do the whole thing. Which unfortunately, that takes us to the maintenance regimen. And as we’ve been talking, a lot of these cars fell by the wayside simply because owners didn’t want to put the effort of the money into maintaining them.

But God, when did they build the first 900? Was that 81?

Crew Chief Eric: It replaced the sonnet, didn’t it? Or something like that.

Don Weberg: Yeah, it did. And the sonnet was a weird one. You had a little V four, I mean, come on. That and a two

Crew Chief Eric: stroke in some cases. Right. So it all depends on the year. Yes,

Don Weberg: yes.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s some other weird ones on the list.

I’m just gonna mention ’em for people that maybe they wanna like research these cars. I know Don, you and I joke about the citation, especially the X 11 is the hot rod precursor to the Cavalier and all this other kind of stuff. Right? And then you have the Cimarron, the Cadillac version of that, you know, and I mentioned these Isuzu impulse, but also I think it was Jeff said early on about the Bratt, don’t forget about the Subaru xt and then even the SS V X, right?

Because that sort of began in the really [01:41:00] late eighties, early nineties. Oh, and don’t forget the Chevy Beretta. That’s another one that people forget about too, if you want. Ooh.

Don Weberg: And the Lumina. Don’t forget the Lumina. No, no.

Crew Chief Eric: We can all forget about the Lumina. But the Beretta with its 3.4 liter chain driven V six.

Don Weberg: The Lumina no had a 3.4 liter with dual overhead rams, my friend. No, my car didn’t

Crew Chief Eric: exist. Trash.

William Ross: They have the Lumina Z 24,

Don Weberg: 34, whatever was,

William Ross: yeah,

Don Weberg: the Z 34 was the Lumina. The Z 24 was the Cavalier. My mom had one of those. The convertible. Yeah, they were nice, weren’t they?

Crew Chief Eric: Before we get to my final pitch here, ’cause I got a good one for you car that’s that’s often overlooked from the eighties.

I wanna hear about Fiero ownership from an actual Fiero owner because Awesome. That is an eighties car if there ever was one.

William Ross: I took credit car. I mean you obviously got no powers of that, but I mean it was like a little go-kart, but you sat low to the ground in that car. I mean, you were way down on the floor of that thing.

I’m six one and I had plenty of room in that car. Having [01:42:00] space, that wasn’t an issue. I mean, obviously you’re not gonna have much luggage space. You just have your passenger. That’s it. But very short, but wide. So I mean, being handled great, you know, I never had a problem. I mean, of course, you know, I was in high school when I had it, so trying to really kind of judge it based on other things, you know, I really enjoyed that car.

If I ever came across one, I’ll look around if something catches my eye, you. Getting there, bought one just to park in the garage to have another one. But the thing is, is like do I go with the GT that I had and had the notch back? But then he also got the newer one was like the, was it 87 88? They had the, you know they had the GLAS back,

Crew Chief Eric: the two M six,

William Ross: but they had the Morero one, they had the Indy Firo GT with the head scoop on the roof and that, I don’t know, it was a lot of fun, you know.

And I’ve seen people here and there, they’ve stuffed an LSS in that would be a fun little car to get up and go with. And it’s unfortunate ’cause I know they had it in the works to bring out a whole new model with that. But then they killed it off ’cause something else happened. But you know, the next gen car that they were gonna come out with was gonna [01:43:00] be spectacular.

It was gonna be longer. What? It was gonna be a great car. I almost gonna say a Corvette killer type situation. But

Don Weberg: that’s why I was

William Ross: killed. It was gonna go too much head to head with the Corvette.

Don Weberg: Yeah, that’s why I was killed. There was only room at GM for one two Cedar sports car. And if you remember, the Fiero already had the midg engine thing going on.

They were adding twin turbos to it. Chevrolet couldn’t hear this and the next thing you know, yeah. Oh well Firo has to go away.

William Ross: You don’t see that many of ’em out there anywhere. I mean the whole car was pretty much plastic anyways on the outside, you know? So your panels and stuff, it’s all your stuff underneath it.

You gotta worry about rust wise that for four or five grand, you could probably hunt down a pretty decent one. It’s gonna have mileage on it, but it’d be a lot of fun. Something unique.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it true that it shared a lot of parts with the Chevette, which was basically just an opal cadet?

William Ross: Yeah, I think it did.

I mean that car only had pulled all the pounds off like that. That thing wasn’t anything special underneath. Yeah, I mean it was, it was a cheap car. I mean it wasn’t expensive. I guess you say unique about it was, ’cause it was a mid-engine car. Even the six, it only had 140 horsepower. 138, something like that.

It [01:44:00] wasn’t gonna get ’em go. But I mean it was small. It was light.

Crew Chief Eric: It didn’t need a lot of power. The power to weight ratio was really good. It did. Yeah.

William Ross: Again, if you’re looking for something that’s gonna be unique, stand out, add a cars and coffee and have some fun with, you could tweak it a little bit. If you want have something, you can work on it yourself.

Four or five grand. You can have something that no one else pretty much has. You’re not gonna have your own Fiero section at any car event. That’s for sure.

Mountain Man Dan: My cousin had a firo and that was one of the first cars I ever worked on. I was doing brakes for, they had to twist out caliper so it didn’t go back in.

I had never done one like I before. I’m trying to press the caliper out and it didn’t not wanna press out after calling some people. ’cause this was, you know, before internet was, you know, as easy as it is now during the dialup days. I reached out to a couple guys that worked at shops and they’re like, yeah, you gotta actually turn into Piston and as you compress it or it’s not gonna go in.

Crew Chief Eric: See, you just hadn’t owned a Volkswagen yet. If you did, you would’ve already known this. This is like common stuff. Mark brought up something in the chat and I think it’s the second banker’s Hot Rod, which is the M BMW 6 35 and 6 35 CI [01:45:00] and all those. I think those are, like you mentioned before, looking at them with new eyes, or I guess old eyes now.

I think reverse aerodynamic front end and low slung rear end, it’s actually quite an attractive car and I think the six series doesn’t get as much press as it should.

William Ross: I love those. They drive great, especially the uh, I know six five, but the M six series of those are fantastic too. I mean, you could get four people in that car if you needed to.

That’s a great car because if you can get a Euro version, it’s got 286 horsepower, 256 in the US version on the M six. And even when you go down to 6 3 5, I think it’s only like two 30 or two 20 I think horsepower in that if I memory serves me. So I mean, you don’t have a big disparaging, you know, range that in horsepower.

Those, I think those are gorgeous, sharp looking cars. I’m a big fan.

Crew Chief Eric: They’re super aggressive looking now. Yeah, like you then you’re like, eh, it’s a B M W, but now you know, square body, round headlights and those wheels, it just looks menacing. You’re like, you show up at a traffic light. That thing. [01:46:00] People were like, what the hell are you driving?

You know what’s in that thing?

Mark Shank: Yeah. I think that the 6 35 c s I came first. Right. I mean that was the first car they released that had that M one engine in it. Yeah. And that was the big deal. Like the C Ss I had the M one engine.

Don Weberg: Yeah, it was the 3.5 liter in line six. That car goes all the way back to the six 30 was the first one that they released.

And of course before that you had the E nine chassis, which is what this car is basically the sun of E nine, which is your 2,800 C S I and the 3.0 c s i amazing cars. You, you know, when I was growing up, it’s funny, Eric, you say that, that they’re just BMWs this. Was one of my ultimate dream cars. You know, my dream car list only has five cars on it, if I remember correctly.

And that’s still one of the cars on there. You know, it’s funny, I love to have an M six. Love, love, love to have an M six, having driven both of them, the 6 35 C S I and the M six. Yeah, the M six is quicker, handles better, blah, blah, blah. The 6 35, there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s no shame in having a [01:47:00] 6 35.

And I’ve driven the five speed and I’ve driven the automatic and there is a difference. The five speed’s gonna give you a lot more pep, but if you’re just into cruising and enjoying and having a nice little night out, there’s no shame in having that automatic and, and now they’re fantastic cars. They’re well built.

You’ll find these cars hitting 300,000, 350,000 miles despite. What Eric thinks of BMWs, but that’s only if they maintain them. And again, BMWs are notorious. They absolutely demand being maintained. In fact, these cards, if you look on the dashboard, they actually have this series of lights that go across and they’re, they’re like green, green, green, yellow, yellow, red.

And that’s your maintenance light. And when that red comes on, you’ve gotta get it in for servicing. Otherwise, it starts going absolutely berserk. You have pulled up Mark, the one that I wanted more than anything. The brights in a bar red. With the, uh, what did they call it? Lotus Interior, I think they called that.

Yeah. And that, that is the one that I wanted one were to caution with the cars that I think is still a problem today. [01:48:00] The factory wheels not the one that Mark has behind it. Mark has some b b s wheels on there, but the factory, 6 35 wheels were metrics sized and there was only one maker who made tires for it, and that was Michelin.

Yep. I don’t if that still holds true today, but back in the day, oh my god, those tires were a fortune. So most people just swapped out the wheels. They just bought a b b S set of wheels and they bought some aftermarket kind of wheel and they just, Put whatever they could find and put those tires on.

Wasn’t

William Ross: it T R X, something like that? Michelin T Rx? Mm-hmm. Thing was, yeah.

Don Weberg: Yeah, there was, yeah, I think you’re right. I think it was Michelin T Rx tires and they were the only ones that would fit that car. That gives you an idea of how well engineered that car was. Let’s name another car that wears bespoke tires.

Oh, the Bugatti.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, so

Don Weberg: I mean that gives you an idea of how much thought B M W was putting into these six area BMWs because they knew their target was ta-da, the five 60 Ss e C, the 500 s e c, those big Mercedes, that was the market they were going for, and then that 9 28 showed up from Porsche and [01:49:00] I was like, oh my God.

As if we didn’t have enough problems competing with Mercedes, now we’re competing with Porsche. Fortunately, the buyers kind of delineated themselves out and Porsche people with, with the 9 28, et cetera.

Crew Chief Eric: I think with the eighties though, in B M W, obviously people will always gravitate to anything E 30, especially the m threes and stuff like that, and the 6 35 instantly recognizable classic German muscle car, but the one that gets forgotten and it is an M car and I think is good value for money today.

Is the E 28, M five, that thing packs a punch. It’s understated. Basically only came in black, so it’s perfect for me. It’s one of those cars that I’ve personally been in. Them driven one. They’re fantastic. Again, underappreciated. They just don’t have the same

Mark Shank: general seis.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, exactly. Thank you, mark. People don’t look at this five series, the M five in the same way they do.

Let’s say the M six, the eight 50, or even the E 30. Any rate, I think the E 28 is something to look at.

Don Weberg: If you start looking at the M [01:50:00] fives of that, the E 28, you’re actually finding a very, very expensive car. If you find one that is cheap, always keep in mind the mantra that the cheapest exotic car is going to be your most expensive one.

The one that might be of interest. That does get overlooked, and I don’t know the chassis numbers. If you remember the movie Ronan, there’s a little, I think it was a PEO chasing an M five, that M five, but basically it’s like a 91, 92. It’s that rounded kind of body style of the B M W. Those are very underrated.

I think people even forget that they had the Ronan M five. They didn’t build too many of them. They were in the shadow of the E 28 that you’re talking about. And then of course later they built even prettier, better. M five.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Like the E 39.

Don Weberg: So yeah, if you wanna bargain from the family, that might be it.

Mountain Man Dan: One of the things that dawned on me when we were talking about the e thirties, that was one of the first eighties cars I ever had owned and drive BMW was thinking ahead with [01:51:00] that for the fact of the fuel economy. ’cause I had a little sweeping gauge on the back and forth, depend on how much throttle you were getting.

Crew Chief Eric: The BMWs have had that forever. It’s never worked. Right. It’s super inaccurate and they keep doing it. It’s like tradition. Right. You know, keep refining that bad idea forever.

Mountain Man Dan: It’s fun to play with it though. ’cause it’s like you, you just floor it and it would drop down to zero and then you’d let off make it back up to like 50.

Don Weberg: Dan, I’m surprised that’s coming from you. You’re the Chevy guy of the group. And even I know the Ford guy here that Mike Caprice has one of those little things too. It goes back and forth.

Crew Chief Eric: To wrap this up, before we do our quick lightning round, I found one car and I’m, I’m surprised Don, you didn’t go there.

And it dovetails right off of our muscle and malaise episode that we did. Remember I closed that episode out talking about the Ford Fairmont and how basically it was a, it was a wolf and sheep’s clothing.

Don Weberg: Yeah. You’re gonna go to the LTD. Yes. Yeah, that is the

Crew Chief Eric: continuation of that thread, that car. Oh yeah.

Understated, underrated, undervalued. And you’re getting a more modern [01:52:00] fox body right underneath of that L T D lx, right? That’s a car I would highly consider.

Don Weberg: They only built it for two years, 84, 85, and they only built just a little over 3000 for the entire run where that car started. I don’t know if you know this or not, but that was Bob Bonderant who built that car.

Not Bob himself per se, but Bob’s team out of his school, they had these little lxs. They were trying to teach people how to drive high performance, which is impossible. When you got three students in the car each, you weigh roughly 200 pounds plus the driver, and they’re trying to get this six cylinder Ford that’s smog, choked, et cetera.

There really was nothing they could do, but they realized that yes, it’s a Fox platform car. We could take the engine out of one of our mustangs, throw it into this car, and we’ve suddenly got a four-door hot rod. And they did. And for the longest time they didn’t think anything of it. They just had a training car that had guts.

And one day some of the Ford executives came out to see the bonder on what was going on out there, what were they doing with our Mustangs, et cetera. [01:53:00] And Bob himself took him for a drive in that lx. Before it was an lx, it was still just an L t d. He is rowing through the gears and they realize this thing got a V eight and five speed guys, do we build this car?

No, we don’t build this car. We dunno where this car came, Bob, where’d this car come from? Well, let me tell you a story. And he told them a story. And the next thing you know, They’re going back to Dearborn and they’re coming up with a plan to build a five liter lx. And really what that was was a stop gap.

S h O and Taurus were being planned out. SS h o was on the very, very back burner, but they knew they wanted a high performance Taurus, but the Taurus was on the front burner. They were investing billions into building the ta. This was a great stop gap. This was a way to show people, hi, we’re Ford and we do have performance four door sedans.

Check this out. And there it is, the L T D lx. But it was never marketed. Less than 3,500 were built. I’ll say that.

William Ross: 3,260.

Don Weberg: And if you look at the one mark has that that car actually lives or lived, I don’t know if it’s still there, [01:54:00] but that car actually lived in Long Beach. That car is where that car is from, and that is an original LX, L T D, but they pulled out the original carbureted.

3 0 2, and they put in an 89 5 liter from an 89 Mustang. Gave it a lot more horsepower, a lot more torque, et cetera. Then he did the suspension, he did everything. That car right there, the one that Mark has behind him, is an incredible, incredible reinterpretation. But here’s the beautiful thing, and again, we’re talking to people who are thinking about their very first collectible car.

Yeah. If you’re into the four-door performance, under the radar car, s h o is sell for twice as much. It’s incredible how many people want an s h o. They don’t even think about this car. Now, granted, the s h O is quicker. The s h o is faster. The SS h o handles better. The s h O is more comfortable. There was a lot more resources put behind SS h O than L T D lx.

Crew Chief Eric: It doesn’t matter. All these things that s H O can do, that this L T D [01:55:00] can’t, because you know what an S H O can’t do? Is get a coyote shoved under its hood and you can’t this true, well, you

Mark Shank: could or, or you could spend $5 on that five liter and kick that SHO’s ass. Oh, a thousand percent.

Don Weberg: A

Crew Chief Eric: thousand percent.

You

Don Weberg: could, you could, yeah,

Mark Shank: absolutely. Five, five, $7. I’ll give you $10 total.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s real world drive manual transmission all day long. You can beef up that V eight. The SHO’s downfall is that it was front wheel drive. Yes, it had the Yamaha and all that other stuff, and great, it would blow its doors off, but in the long run, that’s a better car.

That’s a better collector car. It’s a sleeper. It checks all the boxes and it’s right up there with that Mercedes we talked about as an awesome candidate for a prospective buyer looking at something from this time period. That was my final thought before we go into our lightning round. And what I wanna do is, I wanna pass this to Brad, who’s been really quiet and say, would you buy anything off of this list?

Crew Chief Brad: Um, no. Uh, yes. I, I would, I would [01:56:00] buy, uh, I have a short list of cars that I like. Okay. A Notchback Mustang 9 2 4 Ss bar. I expect that handful of shit to be mailed to Eric’s address. I can give it to you after the call. I’ll get it from him later. And then the cre de la creme for me is a 1986 G M C Sierra, 3,500 dually.

Oh wow. Very specific. But it’s the essential truck from the movie Lethal Weapon too. Martin Riggs used it to pull down a house on stilts. I want use it to haul mulch.

Crew Chief Eric: So since Brad started us off, y’all get to pick one car from the eighties. Money’s no object. Whatever you want. One car from the eighties, what is it?

What’s it gonna be? Let’s go with Mount Mandan.

Mountain Man Dan: Where buddy

Crew Chief Eric: the block.

Mountain Man Dan: Come back to me on this. I gotta think about what I would buy because I already own so many eighties of what I want. Harlequin Square body.

Crew Chief Eric: Ooh, that’s an interesting idea There you are a bad, bad [01:57:00] man with that Lotus Carlton behind you there, sir.

We’ll get into that later. So since we went there, mark, what have you got?

Mark Shank: Ah, shit. If I had to pick, you know I go back earlier in the conversation and honestly we’ve skipped it. We totally skipped it. We didn’t talk about it at all. It would be hard for me to pass on like an R five turbo or no min engine hot hatch.

Kind of like the craziest, never should’ve actually been built car.

Crew Chief Eric: Yep.

Mark Shank: That was ever built. And if I’m thinking like a quintessential unobtainium eighties car for me as a kid, and admittedly there’s stupid, there’s six figure cars these days, a hundred percent. But you know, for me personally, That’s where I’d land.

You know, I do think the Lotus Carlton sneaks into our, because it’s based off an eighties voxel. Yep. Right. So it’s, it’s a very eighties platform. It was released in 93, right on the edge of our barrier. You know, of course, it’s very distinct history. It was really my money and I had to pick, [01:58:00] I do an R five,

Crew Chief Eric: maybe we’ll do an episode about the colonists and the colonies and talk about Australian cars and British cars in more detail.

Another point, because we didn’t even talk about Holdens or the Falcons or any of that stuff that the Aussies had going on. It’s, you know,

Mark Shank: it’s like three hours is not enough. No, never

Crew Chief Eric: is. Well, that’s why we keep doing these, right? Can’t

Mark Shank: cover

Crew Chief Eric: it all in three hours. So let’s go to William. Anything you want from the eighties,

William Ross: well say money’s no object.

Crew Chief Eric: Whatever you want, you get one choice.

William Ross: Just one choice. But I get my hands out an F 40. Money. Hey,

Mark Shank: always count on William to go big money. Big money. William Ross.

William Ross: And then if it was gonna come down and say I’d go to M six or I’d go that, but then stepped out, I’d go to notch back, Fox Body Mustang, and then my firo.

Crew Chief Eric: Jeff, what have you got? If you could buy one car from the eighties, what would it be?

Jeff Willis: Punta. And if I was going more kind of normal. I’m really on that Dodge Shelby charger, the late eighties manual with the [01:59:00] turbo. They were considered butt ugly for the longest time. A lot of people still think they’re dog dodoo and

Mark Shank: they’re cool now.

All, all of it. They’re cool. Now

Jeff Willis: that a lot of those are coming in like the, the fox bodies that you guys have been talking about, all that stuff that was considered kind of secondary to the cooler stuff is now kind of becoming, I think like Dan was saying, more nostalgic now. And so some of the beauty is coming out in the nostalgia as well as what Dan also mentioned, some of the customization.

And so when you throw something under the hood that shouldn’t be there, that makes it go faster, that’s cool. You put new wheels on it, that’s cool. Fancy paint, all that stuff makes it really desirable. All

Crew Chief Eric: right, Dan, he teed

Jeff Willis: you

Crew Chief Eric: up. Do you have an answer

Jeff Willis: yet?

Mountain Man Dan: He actually took what I was gonna say with the Tage.

’cause I was thinking about, I was like, you know what? I was like, I really love that as a kid.

Crew Chief Eric: What are you se like, see, you would, you would go for an Italian car.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. That because, so here’s the thing is it’s a hard debate between that because the Kosh was awesome back in the day, but the [02:00:00] F 40 I think is so much prettier.

I don’t know what it was about the Kosh. It was like, maybe it was just the way it was promoted back then. But it was like forefront right in our face. But the F 40 was more quiet about it.

Crew Chief Eric: Dude, the Kunta was the centerfold in the magazine, right? I mean, yeah, it’s on the Trapper Keepers. Oh yeah, that’s right.

I had the tester Rosa Trapper keeper. That’s all I’m saying.

Mountain Man Dan: All our young listeners are like, what’s a definitely no money limit would be one of those two because they were epic supercars of that era, and they’re just amazing cars. But if I had an unlimited budget, I would definitely dump a lot more into more square bodies.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh Jesus. All right. They, they Now you just invalidated everything you just said before that. So there you go. Don, over to you. What do you got? And don’t say Chrysler tc.

Don Weberg: Not like ante baby. No, I’m kidding. Yeah, you know, I’m gonna join the Kunta Brigade because I’ve always been a Kunta guy. I’ve always [02:01:00] loved Lamborghini. I love the FU attitude that comes with any Lamborghini. I got very little against Ferrari. I have some against Ferrari. But, uh, now I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with, uh, tta and one that we didn’t talk about that maybe we should have because they are reasonably cheap.

As long as you can keep ’em on the road. And that would be the Metate Quattroporte. I love those cars. Yeah, they were a brick of a car and if you could maintain ’em, they drove like no other. They were fantastic drivers. And then I gotta go back to my high school days, you know, dad, forgive me ’cause we were raised Ford, but I have got to have an 89 Pontiac TransAm G T A

Crew Chief Eric: with the bowling ball hubcaps, right?

Well

Don Weberg: that’d be the 82. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, the 82 would have the bowling balls, but the 89 would have those gold mesh e b s, the remake

Mountain Man Dan: of the

Don Weberg: honeycombs. It’d have a black paint job, leather interior, the T tops and the 5.7 liter. If I could have, you know, things my way.

Crew Chief Eric: I know William went high dollar, I’m surprised [02:02:00] Mark didn’t just suddenly say 9 59 just to go.

Completely poor show on that. You know, in the chat there were things popping up like Launch Rados and Delta HF in Tagala and things like that. Those are all awesome cars. And you know what? I am in the F 40 camp. I’ve seen many of them in person. I love those cars. They sound fantastic. It’s hard to beat the F 40, but because we are talking about the eighties and I still think the French are the king of the hatchbacks, you know, outside of the G T I and all that kinda stuff, I’m gonna lean a little into my favoritism of all things not Citron and go with the Bugatti E B one 10.

Mark Shank: Ooh, nice one. Is that an eighties car?

Crew Chief Eric: It is technically designed in the eighties. It came out in 19 9 1. I know because it fits our criteria. I’m in the window right? It’s alright. I’ll give it

Mark Shank: to

Crew Chief Eric: you. It’s French, it’s a supercar. Paint it not blue. It looks like the Batmobile. It’s absolutely incredible. The coolest, ugly car out there.

William Ross: I love them too. Those, these are great. I Those are fantastic. Yeah. I

Crew Chief Eric: [02:03:00] got to see one at speed and it, it left an impression on me, that’s for sure.

Mark Shank: I got to see one at Goodwood sitting next to a new Bugatti. It was pretty amazing and as a kid, that car made a huge impression on me. I still think of it as a nineties car though, just saying.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Brad, anything you wanna add on top of that before you take us home?

Crew Chief Brad: No. All strong choices. I still stick with my pickup truck. Bring your garage or collection to the next level with Don Weber over@garagestylemagazine.com. Interested in purchasing an exotic car from the eighties? And be sure to reach out to William Ross at the Exotic Car Marketplace.

Thanks again to Jeff Willis for coming back on Break Fix. Be sure to catch him on more episodes and pick up a copy of his book, human In the Machine and you’re guaranteed to catch Mark Mountain, man, Dan and Tanya on another episode of Break Fix in the Near Future. So stay tuned for that. Thanks again to our panel for another great, what should I buy to date?

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right. And like all good. What should I buys? Except for I think the Italian one. We never really come to a conclusion, but we hope we left you with a lot of food for thought. [02:04:00] Don’t take our advice. Take our advice. It’s your money. Spend it how you like, but enjoy whatever it is that you buy. And remember that if you buy a car from the eighties, it’s gonna put a smile on your face.

Mark Shank: Well done, gentlemen. Yeah, good job.

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks guys. Alright, we’ll see you all very, very soon. Thanks guys. Later.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about G T M, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grantor Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, everybody, crew, chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we [02:05:00] wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newton’s, gummy bears and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Bonus Content

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All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Go behind the scenes…

Want to see all the extras, bloopers, and how this episode was put together? Check out the Behind the Scenes version! Available exclusively on our Patreon.

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’80s Retro-Reviews & Throw-backs!

Part-1 of this episode: WSIB Muscle & Malaise
Square-bodies: An ’80s Retrospective
Back to the 80s: Square-bodies Part-II, Judgement Day
The Real-Deal: Square-body Chevy Pickups Explained
Retro Test Drive: Renault R5 turbo II
Retro Test Drive: Hello from 3900! (DeLorean DMC-12)
Keep it going with WSIB 90’s Edition!

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

Forget the obvious picks. No 944s, no IROC Camaros, no Ferrari 308s. We’re hunting for the forgotten heroes, the underdogs, the “what were they thinking?” cars that still turn heads.

Here are some of the panel’s top picks:

Dodge Rampage: A K-car-based pickup with Omni/Shelby DNA. Utilitarian and mod-friendly.
Shelby Charger & GLHS: Turbocharged madness with torque steer for days.
Chrysler Conquest TSi: Mitsubishi-powered RX-7 rival with celebrity race cred.
Fox Body Mustang Notchback: Undercover muscle with a five-speed.
AMC Eagle 4×4: The original crossover, decades before the term existed.
Jeep Cherokee XJ & Comanche: Square, capable, and surprisingly collectible.
LaForza: Italian-designed, Ford-powered SUV oddity. So ugly it’s beautiful.
Mercedes G-Wagen: Timeless, yes. Comfortable? Not so much. Don’s rant was legendary.

Some of the best “1980s” cars technically debuted in the early ’90s. So we agreed on a soft cutoff around 1993. If it culturally identifies as an ’80s car, it’s fair game.

Final Thoughts: Buy Weird, Drive Proud

Whether you’re chasing homologation dreams or just want something that makes people do a double take, the 1980s offer a treasure trove of options. From turbocharged Dodges to square-body Chevys, the era was rich with experimentation, personality, and unforgettable silhouettes.

So what should our first-time collector buy? Something odd. Something loud. Something that makes no sense – but all the sense in the world to a true petrolhead.

Stay tuned for part two, where we’ll dive deeper into the best buys under $20K and the quirkiest mods that make these cars truly shine.

Thanks to our panel of Petrol-heads!

To learn more about each of our guests, you can revisit their episodes on Break/Fix, or continue the conversation over on our Discord.

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Jeff Willis

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Mark Shank

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Be sure to catch our Executive Producer of our Drive Thru News series: Tania every month! As well as her very own episode of WSIB.

Don’t agree, let’s agree to disagree? Come share your opinions and continue the conversation on the Break/Fix Discord!

This content has been brought to you in-part by support through...

2024 Lexus LX600 Road Test & Review

Don W

August 31, 2023

To cover Monterey Car Week, Lexus allowed us the use of their 2024 LX 600 SUV. A very tall, very wide vehicle with a grille that easily commands attention, the LX cast an imposing presence wherever it rolled, striking humility into the hearts of other large-scale vehicles. Our tester was finished in Nori Green Pearl Metallic, a rich shade of dark green that was both subtle and bold at once, equally matching the overall persona of the LX itself.

The interior was a stunning environment of semi-aniline leather upholstery tanned in what Lexus called “Sunflare”, which equates to a striking caramel color. Balancing out the color was a unique, blackened trim that reminded of carbon fiber and wood all at once. Four captain’s chairs with a massive, full-length center console provided exceptional comfort for all four staffers whenever we were mobile, which was quite often going from event to event or cruising the long journey back to the rental house in Gilroy, about an hour northeast of Monterey.

And none of this addresses the abundance of technology the LX brought to the program, which was in most cases, overwhelming. Thanks to the technology though, the LX often seemed capable of doing anything – from raising or lowering its body for better ground clearance and ingress-egress to massaging, heated, and ventilated seating to various entertainment sources to chassis ride and comfort settings to – on and on it went.

We’ll go out on a limb and say this – anyone uncomfortable with technology will likely at first find the LX a little frustrating. Or so we thought. Once the LX was dialed in to how we liked it, we let it be and it turned into an enviable vehicle. The massive seats were astonishingly supportive, the silent cabin was seemingly rivaled only by a tomb, the stereo delivered phenomenal sounds, and once accustomed to the overall size of the LX, it drove and maneuvered with ease.

During Car Week, we were surrounded by all kinds of enviable vehicles from various manufacturers from all over the world, including one particular light silver blue Rolls-Royce Cullinan SUV, which we saw multiple times. It was interesting the admiring stares and attention the LX received from onlookers, including the passengers of the Cullinan, who, at first of course, only gave the LX a cursory glance – but rolling down the window in traffic and asking if they had any special mustard garnered a new friendship in SUV’ing. Sadly, no mustard was to be shared, but encountering the Cullinan throughout the week proved fun with waves and smiles.

Comparing the LX to the Cullinan is an interesting adventure and can easily be done online. The two SUVs offer oceans of luxury amenities, acres of technology, and a cabin fit for royalty – the Cullinan has an umbrella, which can be tailored to your specific Cullinan, and coach doors and a myriad of other unique details setting it apart in a charming manner that only the British could think of, but we really wonder if anyone owning an LX is missing out on anything. Toyota must think more can be had, as they will be debuting the new Century SUV soon, a true rival to the Cullinan in Toyota’s “chauffer series” of vehicles.

The driving position of the LX was commanding and the surround-view camera (more tech, but hugely useful) allowed us to park what became known as The Armored Car, or The Beast virtually anywhere we wanted. Cruising around town was effortless and merging onto freeways was a breeze, thanks to the 409 horsepower, twin-turbocharged V-6 engine that churned up 479 lb-ft. of torque.

The 10-speed automatic transmission shifted very nicely, although when it was cold, there were sometimes less-than-Lexus-style shift patterns that were unexplainable. But again – after driving for a block or so, things smoothed over. While the vehicle would frequently find itself in “ECO” mode, the LX has a drinking problem like most large-scale SUVs and requires high octane fuel for the turbos. The aircon seemed taxed on many occasions, something we were attributing to the ECO mode setting, which we never figured out how to override.

Interestingly, checking the LX’s off-road capabilities online, people have left glowing reviews, despite the truck’s overall heft and size – again, technology steps in and helps make the LX a true off-road boulevardier. We figure using a proper off-road tire makes a big difference, but the Toyota Sequoia DNA of the LX is likely a huge benefit too.

If there was any complaint about the LX, it might be the locations of switches and buttons, either real or virtually within the touchscreen. On more than one occasion, in trying to press the button to use the righthand mirror to look down toward the rear tire to ascertain its position in relation to the curb, the finger would find the mirror fold-in button instead – trying to find the door lock/unlock buttons could also cause a little confusion. Digging through the touchscreen to find the chassis settings could be a challenge, and using the up-down switch to raise or lower the body took some studying of the buttons every time.

Maybe it’s something that drivers will get better used to over time, but we never seemed to get the hang of it in 10 days of use. But – outside of that – we were hard pressed to find true complaints against the LX. It’s a remarkably lovely vehicle, something for someone looking for all the luxury and technology expected in a top-level luxury sedan but with the visibility of an SUV.

**special thanks to Veloce Media, Baja Catina, Pebble Beach Lexus and the city of Carmel for the use of their locations for our photo shoot.

Thanks for stopping by!

Don Weberg - Editor-Publisher-Founder, Garage Style Magazine

Becoming a Le Mans Man: David Lowe and the ACO USA Story

Eric M

August 24, 2023

Becoming a Le Mans Man: David Lowe and the ACO USA Story

What starts as a childhood fascination with comic books and slot cars can sometimes lead to a life immersed in motorsports history. For David Lowe, ambassador of the ACO USA, that journey began with a vivid image: a villain flicking a cigarette at the hero on the Mulsanne Straight. That comic book moment sparked a lifelong love for Le Mans – and ultimately, a mission to bring the spirit of the 24 Hours to American fans.

David mentioned on this episode that his drive and inspiration to be part of Motorsports, came to him as a young boy reading comics about racing at LeMans; Photo courtesy David Lowe

David’s first real-world connection to Le Mans came unexpectedly through his work in the hardwood industry. A French client – who turned out to be a race car driver – invited him to the 1994 race. That trip, hosted by Werner Racing, placed David in the pits beside legends like Derek Bell. Though the team retired early, the experience lit a fire that never went out.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Years later, a chance encounter on a beach in Phuket led David to his future wife – a native of Le Mans – and deeper ties to the ACO. He began assisting the club’s official photographer, Nicholas, eventually helping to digitize race coverage and support the club’s media efforts. When Nicholas became director of the ACO, David pushed for a stronger American presence. After years of persistence, he presented an eight-point plan to launch ACO USA—and checked off the final box just five days before the 100th anniversary race (below).

David’s induction as an ACO administrator gave him a new vantage point for the 2023 race. From the Sportive Model to the finish line, he witnessed the centennial in all its glory. His favorite moment? Watching the parade of 81 historic Le Mans winners take to the track, many under their own power, with legendary drivers at the wheel.

David says “his favorite time” during LeMans weekend is on Sunday mornings around 8am, on the deck behind ACO HQ, with a cup of coffee – enjoying a few moments of racing before heading back to work; Photo courtesy David Lowe

He rooted for Ben Keating, a club member who staged a dramatic comeback to win his class. And like many fans, he welcomed Ferrari’s return to the top step and the end of Toyota’s dynasty. “It’s not that Toyota’s the villain,” David said, “but dynasties can dull the thrill of competition.”

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode spotlights David Lowe, the ambassador for the ACO USA, the Automobile Club of the West, which organizes the legendary 24 Hours of Le Mans race. Lowe recounts his personal journey from a passionate young petrol head to his significant role in the club. He narrates memorable experiences, such as his first visit to Le Mans in 1994 and a serendipitous encounter with his future wife in Thailand, which deepened his connection to Le Mans. The podcast explores the ACO USA’s initiatives to enhance member engagement, offering exclusive experiences, such as interactions with motorsport legends and access to live streaming of races. Lowe’s efforts aim to expand the ACO USA membership and provide value to motorsport fans unable to attend races in person. The episode underscores the community spirit among ACO members, highlighting events, volunteer contributions, and future plans to grow the club’s presence in the U.S.

What’s your motorsports past? How many LeMans have you been to, etc?
Quick recap on the 100th – thoughts?
The “Automobile Club” de L’ouest — it should be obvious from the name that it’s a club, but many people just associate it with the 24hrs race itself. Let’s shatter that glass and talk about the club, its members, and what it’s all about?
People join all sorts of car clubs: PCA, SCCA, etc. Why the ACO? How did you become a member?
What are the benefits of joining the ACO? Why join? Key differentiators from other clubs. What does it cost? Any Perks (general discounts, lounge access at the races, etc)?
ACO USA Events – what’s coming up?
ACO USA needs help – volunteers? Describe opportunities that members can be involved in.
“The Legends” – more detail on them and their involvement in the club.

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode of break fix has been brought to you in part by the ACO USA, where you can become part of the legend membership in the automobile club of the West. The founding and organizing 24 hours of Lamont’s is open to all the club hosts events.

In Le Mans and around the world attracting fans who enjoy their shared passion for motoring and motor racing

Our guest will be taking you on a thrilling journey through the world of motor sports and the rich history of the automobile club of l’Ouest also known As the [00:01:00] ACO. Established in 1906, the ACO is a prestigious organization based in Le Mans, France, and is best known for organizing the legendary 24 hours of Le Mans endurance race.

And just back from celebrating the hundredth anniversary of this great race, David Lowe, ambassador for the ACO USA, joins us to delve into the origins of this iconic race and the incredible stories that have unfolded on the Circuit de la Sarthe and why you should become a member of one of the oldest motorsports.

Clubs in the world. So with that, let’s welcome David Lowe to break fix. Well, thank you, Eric. It’s certainly an honor and a privilege to be on the show. Before we jump into the details of the ACO, like all good break, fix stories. Everybody has a superhero origin. So let’s talk about David Lowe, the petrol head and how and what led up to your involvement with the ACO.

David Lowe: I look back and it started about the time I was 11 years old, with a classic comic book about Le Mans. I’ve looked for the copy, I can’t find it anymore, but I certainly remember [00:02:00] the two panels. The villain in the race was flying down the Mulsanne straightaway, smoking a cigarette, and he flicks it out the window.

At the good guy. It’s a vivid memory in my head for me when I raced my Aurora slot car set. I was always at Lamont driving an XK, but my buddy across the street on his slot car. He was at the Indianapolis 500 big difference in our racing styles right from the very beginning. Fast forward a couple of years and I’m in the hardwood industry.

And one Christmas, we get a call from a French company that wants to come over and buy some cherry veneer logs. I got the short straw for the Christmas holiday. They arrived and I took the company plane up to Titusville, Pennsylvania. It was about three or four inches of snow. I’m brushing the snow off the veneer logs and they purchased a container of cherry veneer logs.

And I’m the hero that week with the most sales in the company, the only sales in the company. Anyway, the interesting thing was as the talk to them, you know, I understand he’s a race car driver and he drives at Lamont. Always [00:03:00] fascinated. I got the chance to come visit him and go to the shop and see the cars.

And then one day I get a call. He says, look, I’m getting ready to race this season. I’d like to invite you over for the 24 hours. I said, I’d love to, but you know, my boss is not going to let me come unless you invite him. He called my boss and invite him. So we came over. It was 1994. It was my first Le Mans.

I was a guest of Werner Racing. It was pretty cool to be there in the pit. The hospitality right over the pits. It was all the excitement and thrills of being there. In fact, Derrick Bell pitted right beside us in that golf livery. So it was a really, really cool event. Unfortunately, they retired in the middle of the night.

But it was still a cool event. It was my first Le Mans. And then we kind of went through a little bit of a dry spell. I switched companies, ended up working in South America. It was Christmas time. I’d been working on a project and I needed to move some product. Thought I’d take advantage of the Christmas holiday and head over to the Far East and look up a couple of customers.

I knew they’d take an order. New Year’s Eve, I landed in Bangkok. The airport’s probably less than 20 [00:04:00] miles from downtown, but it’s a four hour trip. So I went back to the counter, I said, tell me, where can I fly tonight? And she looked and she said, we’ve got a flight going to Phuket. It’s going to leave here in 30 minutes.

We can get you on that flight. I said, I’m on. Landed in Phuket, checked into the hotel. Freshened up a little bit and thought I’d go for a walk on the beach. Couldn’t really see anything, but there were a lot of little outdoor bars. And at one of the bars, there’s this young lady, blonde, black dress, sitting at the bar and the seat beside her was open.

Well, with some hesitation, I walked out and said, excuse me, is this seat available? And she said, Yes. And so I sat down. I said, Where are you from? She said, Well, I’m from France. And you speak English? Yes, we speak English in France. Well, great. We’re great. So where do you live in France? And she said, Well, I live in a little town outside of Paris.

Okay. Does your little town have a name? She says, I live in Le Mans. And I said, do you know Jean Francois Yvon? And her face dropped. The Yvon were very good friends of her parents. So she traveled [00:05:00] halfway around the world to meet an American she didn’t know that knew her parents. It was a long distance relationship.

I ended up marrying in Le Mans at the cathedral. And my son was born beside the Mulsanne straightaway. Yes, I’m kind of getting to be a little bit of a Le Mans man. She had a friend, a very good friend from childhood, who was the official photographer for the ACO. And so with Nicholas, I would get to come to the races and I would assist him in the media center as he was processing the photographs and helping him as we started to get them out on the web.

And this was years ago. And over the years, I’ve worked with Nicholas, providing technical assistance from time to time. And then Nicholas was appointed the director of the club. I’ve been working with him and I said, guys, we’ve got to do something. Every year I would say something, we really need to do something in the American market.

And there was kind of like a little bit of pushback. So last year, right after Le Mans Classic, I sat down and I said, here are the eight things that we need to do for the U. S. market to make it a successful membership program. Five days before the race, I was able to check off the last [00:06:00] box.

Crew Chief Eric: And we’ll dive a little bit more into that as we go along, but let’s expand a little bit upon your past.

As you said, you’re a Le Mans man, you’re a Le Mans. Family. I mean, to think back over the last 30 years, going back to 94 and that chance encounter with a French customer that wanted veneer over Christmas, that’s pretty amazing how it evolved into all this inside of that 30 year span. Have you yourself gotten more involved in motorsport?

Have you picked up some sports cars? Have you turned some laps? Have you been around Le Mans itself? Years

David Lowe: ago, I had a formula Ford van demon chassis, 1600 had a sponsor. But I didn’t have enough money to really go racing. Lamar has been my race for all my life. I think I’ve been to mid Ohio once. I’ve been to VIR Sebring is out in the middle of nowhere.

You got to book your room early, but I found some good places to eat, but it’s a long drive, but I haven’t been to all the tracks around the country. So you can put all that together. And for those out there that do race. It’s a little different sport. I’ve been fortunate enough to have three Porsches. And for those that enjoy going fast, [00:07:00] I’ll have to be honest.

Once you get to a certain speed, you take off. And I became a pilot, which goes a whole lot faster than this three dimensional.

Crew Chief Eric: So you’ve experienced other clubs as well. Member of PCA, involved in SCCA, things like that. So you’ve carried with you to the ACO, some of those personal experiences, part of those check boxes that you talked about, how to make the ACO better.

And we’ll get into that again, as we go along here. But since we both were together at the hundredth anniversary of Lamont’s, I want to get your take, your recap, your thoughts on the Centennial.

David Lowe: I have to be honest. It was very special. The 23rd of May, prior to the race, I was fortunate enough to be inducted as an administrator for the ACO.

With that, I had the opportunity to see the race from a different vantage point than I had in the past. And so for me, it was a very, very memorable experience. Being able to watch the start from the sportive model as well as being at the finish line was really the first time that I’ve had that opportunity.

Crew Chief Eric: Knowing the outcome now, who were you [00:08:00] rooting for in the beginning? Were expectations met? Did you have a favorite horse in the race? I did.

David Lowe: Ben

Crew Chief Eric: Keating

David Lowe: is one of our members of our club and a big contributor. You know, we were certainly excited for Ben. We’re fortunate enough he’s on an episode of Evening with the Legends, so I don’t want to take all the thunder out of his thing, but to come from two laps down and finish first was absolutely incredible.

And I think the other was to see something other than Toyota winning. Anything but Toyota. It was exciting to see Ferrari come back. put it all together. Glickenhaus did a really strong finish. There was a lot, a lot of good, exciting races. I think

Crew Chief Eric: that sentiment was shared with a lot of folks and it’s not because Toyota’s the villain in the equation.

I think a lot of us in motorsport might be growing tired of these dynasties, whether it’s in Formula One or in rally or any of the disciplines to include Le Mans. I mean, you had a stretch. With Audi, what of 11 wins 19 overall with Porsche, but they had a concentration of them before Toyota took [00:09:00] over between Audi.

And it’s just these long stretches of the same people winning over and over again. And so it feels like competition is at a minimum.

David Lowe: I was working with the museum prior to the race and they brought in all of the winning cars. I believe there was 82 winning cars. Maybe it’s 81 winning cars. They were able to get all of the winning cars at Le Mans over the 100 years back, except one.

But Tom Christensen’s cars were coming in and they were taking them off the track. Tom, Tom, okay, okay. But you didn’t, you don’t realize the legends that have just really. Dominated there as drivers. It’s impressive.

Crew Chief Eric: Over a hundred years, there’s been so many different winners, whether it’s Bugatti or Bentley or Simca, or, you know, some of the other brands that you’re just like, there’s been so many winners and there’s been dominant players as well, but I agree with you that moment when they pulled all the cars out of the museum, all the ones that could run under their own power and took them out on track for that half an hour for those parade laps.

And they were going at a good clip. That was the [00:10:00] moment at Le Mans for me, where it set it apart from everything else. It was seeing these cars that I’ve only seen in books, magazines and old movies and things like that out on track together. It was just absolutely amazing. And with some of their remaining drivers too, with these legends that you’re talking about, that was special.

For the

David Lowe: listeners that may miss the 24, the classic is one of my favorite Le Mans classics, every two years, that takes me back to my childhood. I get a chance to go out in the pace car or take a lap during the classic. It’s a little, a little easier to do things like that, but to hear those roar, don’t miss an opportunity to go to the classic.

Crew Chief Eric: there a favorite Le Mans car of all time for you? Growing up was a GT40. So if I take you away from the VIP booths and the start finish and the ACO lounges and stuff, where’s David Lowe’s favorite place to watch? What’s your number one corner? I really

David Lowe: like Indianapolis. I really like being able to stand there.

It’s a little dangerous. Those rocks are a whole lot bigger than they look on TV. When they fly, you’ve got to be, [00:11:00] uh, on your toes. The other part is eight o’clock on, uh, Sunday morning. I’m usually working in the ACO headquarters and there’s a back door that goes out on a balcony. So I usually come out and get a cup of coffee and a croissant and go out on the main straightaway and watch the cars and you’ve got a great view of the pits activity.

You see them coming up through the Porsche curves. That’s really kind of my favorite time is eight o’clock on Sunday morning. Nobody’s around. It’s kind of quiet in the way of activity and I can have 15 minutes of just enjoyable time.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s switch gears a little bit in the introduction. You know, I spelled out what ACO stands for, right?

Automobile club of the West. If you translate it from the French, the emphasis on automobile club, it should be obvious from their name that it’s a club, but many people just associate the ACO with the 24 hours, the race itself. So let’s shatter the glass a little bit and talk about the club. It’s members membership and what it’s really all about.

David Lowe: The ACO originally started out as what we would consider AAA. It’s the French equivalent of what we have. That’s [00:12:00] been grandfathered for the old members, but you can’t join it now, new. So they’ve kind of phased that over. But now the ACO, the club is, as they say, a club. The French package, if you would, the European package, provide you access to tickets early at a discount and some perks around the, the Lamar area, access to the, the museum, and a chance to go into the track every now and then.

If you’ve lived in Lamar or lived in France, you absolutely are gonna be a member of the A C o, and that’s the majority of the members of the A C O are French

Crew Chief Eric: people join all sorts of car clubs, whether it’s P C A or Ss C C A or others like we mentioned. Why the ACO and how do you become a member?

David Lowe: So what the ACO USA Members Club is, is a community of fans who are passionate and committed to the race and are ambassadors for the event as well as endurance racing in general.

What is our mission? The mission of the ACO USA Members Club is to create a vibrant community of [00:13:00] devoted fans who share a deep passion for the 24 Hours of Le Mans and are committed to sharing the thrills and excitement of this legendary race. Particularly with those that may not be able to attend in person.

That’s what we’re about. The ACO had traditionally been a way for a U. S. person going to the race to purchase their tickets early and get a little discount on the ticket. If you weren’t going to the race, there was no value. When I looked at the American market. And the fans of the 24, not everybody can afford to go to Le Mans when I took over as the ambassador, I made almost 400 phone calls a lot to pass members to say, Hey, why did you leave to existing members?

You know, why are you staying with us to try to get a pulse on it? One of the interesting revelations was the fact that Americans that can’t afford to go to Le Mans, go to the petite Le Mans as if it’s Le Mans. That was really an eye opener. And, you know, I took that back to Lamont and said, Hey guys, you know, Petit Lamont, yes, it’s an IMSA race, but [00:14:00] we have to be there because our fans are there.

When I set out last July, I had a blank canvas and I’m going to create a membership that addresses the real needs of the entire U S market. So we have created this incredible community of volunteers. And just less than a year that I’ve done some amazing things. And as I said, the last checkbox was to ensure that as a member of the ACO in the U S you would be able to watch the 24 live stream.

And that was the final checkbox of the membership package. And we’ve got that five days before the race. So as a member of the ACO, not able to attend the race live. You could plug in for the live stream of the race.

Crew Chief Eric: What’s great about this is even though the formalized ACO USA, let’s say is about a year old, maybe a little bit older.

It sounds like because of your passions, your interest in being involved in this for so long, it’s had some fits and starts along the way. And you’ve been petitioning for this for quite a while. And it’s great to see it become realized. So you mentioned [00:15:00] your eight big bullet points. And that last one was the live streaming available to the US members.

But what else was on that list? What other things did you do behind the scenes to really bring the ACO USA to where it is today? And you’re not alone in this journey. I met some of the board members that you’re involved with, some of these volunteers that are part of the head of the ACO USA. What are they doing and how are they helping you to continue to expand the program?

So you talked

David Lowe: about what my focus is. My focus is to give the members things that they can’t buy. Just like you saw in Le Mans, people would talk. Hey, you know how to ask the question, do you know who the first American woman, you know, no, no, well, it’s Margie Smith Hawes. Oh, really? Yeah. Would you like to meet her?

Oh, Margie, come over here and say, hi. It was, you know, people don’t expect that and that’s the type thing. And so we’ve had Jim Busby, Doc Bundy, and now we’re coming up on Ben Keating with a huge crowd, actually. We’ll be at almost capacity.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, when you look at the membership of any club, the ACO included in this case, granted it’s.

Again, one of the oldest [00:16:00] running clubs in the world. And why not be part of something like that? Getting in really here on the ground floor as part of the U. S. People are looking for exclusivity. You got to get a low membership number. That’s pretty awesome. That’s something to talk about. I got in in the beginning.

But there’s intangible things like these experiences, like the opportunity to ask a question to Ben Keating or Jim Busby or any of the legends really, or to meet them face to face. Like I had the privilege of doing at the 100th. But then there’s the tangible things like you mentioned live stream access, but there’s also other key differentiators from other car clubs or other motor sports clubs as well.

And those are the carryovers for American members still benefit from all of the perks. that the Europeans get as well. That’s

David Lowe: correct. So you still get the advance ticket option, uh, booking. You get all that plus one of the popular, which comes in our packages, your name on the fan wall, you know, your plaque on the fan wall.

That’s really kind of cool. And the legends like that just as much as the fans do. So it’s kind of funny that I’m the legend. [00:17:00] Give me a picture of my name on the wall, even though, you know, they have the club to pull out. But we have the fan wall. The other interesting thing that we have is a USA members only Facebook group.

And that’s kind of cool because you’ve got to be a member to have access. And the legends do post on their things that they wouldn’t open normally post on a public Facebook page, and they’ll engage a whole lot easier in the realm of a private Facebook group, that’s been really cool, as I said, we’ve just started out and through the graciousness of one of our members, actually, we’re going to have an event in San Diego.

It’s called Blown Away in San Diego. Sunset Sail on the Schooner America, which is actually the yacht that won the original America’s Cup race for which the race was named, followed by dinner at the San Diego Yacht Club. On the face, it’s like, well, a boat ride and dinner, but no, each table at the dinner will be hosted by a legend.

We’ve got a pretty good lineup and it’s actually growing because Steve Earl called me the other day and said, David, I’m [00:18:00] coming. Out of the blue, he had talked to Dick Barber, Dick had told him about the event, and Steve just called me up. I’m coming. Yes, sir. We’ll make room for you. So we have an incredible group of legends that show up.

Part of our agreement with the legends is we don’t use their name in our advertising. We don’t say, hey, join the ACO USA and talk to Ben, what have you. That’s not what we’re about. Although Ben knows that we do that. But that’s not our intent. But we do have an incredible lineup. Rick, Jim Busby, Doc Bundy, Margie, Steve Earle, and Jim, Rick, and Doc have not been together in the same place in over 30 years.

So this is like a legendary event. And. You’re going to be on the boat, be in the cocktail hour, each legend hosts a table. So you’re going to sit down and have dinner with a legend. So those are the type things that bringing the 24 to the fans in

Crew Chief Eric: America. It’s an awesome opportunity for folks. And then obviously it’s going to be an awesome experience if you’re able to go.

Outside of all of these perks and these wonderful [00:19:00] things that we’ve been mentioning, to include discounts on merchandise and all those things you can shop on the Le Mans store, it begs the question, for all this exclusivity and awesomeness, how much does it cost? It’s

David Lowe: only 98 euro. Depending on what the exchange rate, it’s like 105 a year.

It’s incredible value. You get back a whole lot more than 105. Even if you don’t go to the race, and that’s the whole focus, is to give you the value and not have to go to the race. To realize

Crew Chief Eric: it. I hear it all the time from people because it is a struggle every year to get the race on television. Well, I got Motor Trend.

Well, I don’t. And it’s on Peacock or it’s on this. It’s on some other thing. But with this, you bought in and now you have access to the race. If you’re a diehard fan, like many of us are of the 24, I personally try to stay up just like I did when I’m there in person as much as I can to not miss a moment of the action.

Having that access is super important. So for me, it’s worth its weight in gold to say. This year, next year and beyond, I can tune in and watch the race with no interruptions. And then I think a lot of people are going to benefit from that and [00:20:00] really enjoy that. There was one other thing that really stood out at Le Mans.

Obviously the hundredth was a big to do. It’s just like a week long circus with everything that happens at the

David Lowe: event. You know, when you think about Le Mans, you can’t take it all in at one time. And like I said, I’ve been going for quite a few years. Le Mans as an event is like a diamond. Each time I go. I see a different facet that I didn’t see before or didn’t notice before.

So each time you go, and you can go many times, but each time you’ll see something you didn’t see the last trip.

Crew Chief Eric: But there are specific designated areas at the track, the ACO lounges, that was also worth it. If you’re going over there, if you can afford to go, if you’re going to be there, there’s ACO lounges all over the main one up by Dunlop, ACO 18 by the Porsche boxes, you know, and throughout the rest of the track, it was well worth the discounts on food, stuff like that was amazing, but it.

Made me wonder, and you brought up Petit Le Mans earlier, it has a similar feel, but on a smaller scale with the ongoing growing relationship between WEC and IMSA, are [00:21:00] we going to see more bleed over from the ACO at IMSA events? Is there going to be something at Road Atlanta that we should be looking forward to anything that you can give us a little spoiler on what maybe some of your future plans are?

David Lowe: John Doonan and I have spent quite a bit of time together here, particularly at Le Mans during the 24, I had a chance to spend quite a few hours with him discussing how IMSA could develop a fan club, integrate how would that look, ACO slash IMSA relationship. So it’s certainly something that we’re looking at because we promote all endurance racing.

So we’re not exclusive. We have one race. However, we do have the WEC races. So that’s something that people really haven’t grasped yet. So the ACO does run the WEC series of which Le Mans is one race in that series. If you followed the WEC championship series. I think there’s a lot of significant opportunities for us to work together.

I use the example. We used it in the wood industry. Everybody’s competing for market share. Your percent of the [00:22:00] market is never going to change. If you have 15 percent of the market, it’s not going to change to 20 overnight. It probably never will. It won’t. So what you’ve got to do is make the pie bigger.

So if we grow the fan base in the U. S. Everybody benefits because their share of that pie will continue to grow. Personally, I’d like to see a couple of WEC races in the U. S., maybe one on the East Coast, one on the West Coast. Now, I’m not involved with that, but if we had a membership base that would dictate that, absolutely, WECs would certainly have to consider that.

Crew Chief Eric: Would it be a stretch to say that maybe in the future, with our ACO membership, not only would we get to see Le Mans? on a live stream, but maybe some of the other races in the series that we don’t have access to.

David Lowe: So on the ACO webpage, you do have access to the films of all the WEC series, not live, but after the fact.

So I think one of the requests that we have for the 2024 action plan is not only the live feed for the 24, but also the live feed for the WEC [00:23:00] races. So that would continue to expand the package for the U. S. members now. They don’t get the live stream anyplace else as part of their membership, only in the U.

S. And

Crew Chief Eric: so now you take that 100 and you divide it over the course of, let’s say, 12 races in the series, that 100 suddenly became really, really cheap. If you’re looking at a monthly race that you could watch even in replay form, that’s better access than we have today here in the States. I think that’s good value for money, considering everything else you can pile on top of that membership cost.

You know, you mentioned some upcoming ACO events. Anything else you have in the

David Lowe: works? Anything else you can share? I just, in preparation for the 2024 plan, we’ve identified 16 nodes in the U S that will be our focus in the coming year and node was defined as an area with 10 or more members within a 40 mile radius.

So we’ve got 16 of those across the country. My idea is that once the race film for 2023 comes out, that I’ll travel around to each one of these nodes, we’ll have a watch party, we’ll sit down and [00:24:00] watch the entire race film with chicken tenders and nachos. I found that the members don’t like wings. They love chicken tenders, but they don’t like the wings.

So chicken tenders,

Crew Chief Eric: not just. I know a lot of things come out in the newsletter, which is actually a fantastic read. At this point, you’ve put out more than a dozen newsletters. So anything else upcoming that you’d like to share with maybe potential members that are going, I need to sign up now. It’s no time like the present.

David Lowe: We’re on a real drive right now. Our next big event will be at the Petit Le Mans. We’ll have a booth there. As we get a little closer, we’re also planning to have a meetup, so we’ll have some sort of social function. We will go to Coda next year. The WEC will be in Coda. Texas is a big market for us, so I’m excited about that.

California is growing very, very quickly. As I said, Margie’s out there just doing an incredible job networking for us out there, as well as Rick. And we’ve got an incredible set of volunteers in Florida and in the D. C.

Crew Chief Eric: area. I’m glad you brought up volunteers. And we’ve mentioned it several times already.

You always need help. You’re [00:25:00] always looking for more people. Why don’t you describe for our audience What some of the opportunities that ACO members could be involved in, how they can help talents that you’re looking for, the types of things that you just need help with, there’s only so many hours in a day and people to go around.

So what’s on your list of things you need to get accomplished. We’ve

David Lowe: got an incredible range of volunteers. We’ve got a whole set of lawyers now working on our next steps as a club. Of course, there are legal aspects to this, so they’re definitely. Pro bono work, helping us get set up in the areas that we need to do.

We’ve got graphic artists, IT folks, sales people are the type that they’ll pick up the phone. They’re, they’re not afraid to cold call people. We have folks that do the setup for our events, organize the meetups, catering. One volunteer that does this incredible job with swag, getting it ordered, getting it picked out, getting all the, everything, get it shipped out.

It’s just incredible. Can’t say enough. Thanks, William. Ruben Sanchez has done just an absolute incredible job [00:26:00] with, with our Facebook account, getting the media, getting the, uh, posting. So that’s a humongous task. So, you know, people that are social media savvy, there are a couple of people out there that like to support that by all means.

Cause I don’t have the time.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it sounds like ask and you shall receive some sort of task. So we’ll give people your contact information at the tail end of the episode here. But if you’re looking to become a member or are already a member and want to give back to the ACO, sounds like David has some open opportunities for you to contribute and be a bigger part of this growing organization.

I mean, obviously we’re going to do our best to try to help you guys out as well. We want to be involved. There’s a bunch of us here at GTM that are members of the ACO. We saw this opportunity to get in on the ground floor, be a of something of legend. This is just a great way to give back to the racing community.

And there’s a lot of different ways to do that. I’m glad that you have this opportunity open and available for people.

David Lowe: And like I said, we’ve got 16 nodes and over the next couple of months, I’ll be looking to identify individuals within those 16 areas that want to [00:27:00] take a more active role because I just physically can’t travel to each one of these every time.

So we’ll be looking for people in those areas that want to step up. As you saw when you met in Le Mans, it was pretty cool. Give back to a large group of volunteers. I was able to get credentialed for the race, which is kind of a really cool thing. If you’ve never been credentialed, particularly for the 24, that’s a really cool perk.

So they put in the hours for it, but I was able to recognize them with that.

Crew Chief Eric: As we kind of move into our final segment here, I want to talk more about the legends, more detail on them, how they’re involved in the club, even outside of like. Just the speaking engagements that they’re doing in some of these events.

Who else is out there? Who else is a figurehead for the ACO USA?

David Lowe: Harley Cluxton is my counterpart for Club de Pulo in the U S and Harley and I are working very, very close to merge the legends. with the fans and get them involved. The legends really, really, they’re over the moon about the activity that we’re having, an opportunity for them to get involved in [00:28:00] something active and a chance to meet the fans, to talk, to share.

And you understand these guys have stories to tell and they want to tell. For those that are a member, Brian Redman gave us an incredible memoir. It was a donation to the club. And it was actually given to Reuben by Brian, and he asked Reuben to share it with the club. And we waited until after the race, because that was the most appropriate time to do that.

And I don’t want to give it away, but if you have not read it, I believe Brian is 82 years old, a very, very accomplished person. And for him to have written what he did. It’s incredible. Man that has everything has five regrets.

Crew Chief Eric: And we don’t want to spoil them. You got to

David Lowe: read. I don’t want to spoil them.

I’m just saying those are the type of things that we’re getting from the legends. They have a lot to give back. We don’t have the wherewithal to pay, uh, appearance fees. We’re a nonprofit working on a shoestring budget. But the legends understand they want to contribute and they do.

Crew Chief Eric: You talked about competition earlier and make the pie bigger so that your slice of the [00:29:00] pie gets bigger being in business, as you have been for many years, you know, you gotta be forward thinking about this and the club is growing at a very rapid rate and it’s going to continue to expand.

So we talked about some short term goals, but what about some of your longer term? What’s the five and 10 year

David Lowe: outlook for the ACO USA? I don’t want to give all the secrets away, but as we talk about intermission statement, we want to share the thrills and excitement, particularly with those that may not be able to attend in person.

I want everybody to have a chance to go. And then for those that are thinking about to go, we do have an incredible prep program, Zoom meetings, guidebooks for people that are interested in or considering going to Le Mans. It’s usually about a 12 month planning process for the first time, getting your budget right, you know, figuring out.

Where are you going to stay and what you want to do? So we have a whole series of zoom meetings with, with a team that walked

Crew Chief Eric: you through the steps. As we planned out my trip for the hundredth, it took us about two years. And we were by ourselves trying to figure out all the ins and outs, reading blog posts and experiences of other people, and just trying to discern, you know, what it [00:30:00] was going to be like when you got there, expectations, you know, what you do’s and don’ts, all those kinds of things.

Going to Lamont is not like going to your local NASCAR race or even an IMSA race for the weekend. And Petite’s a big deal. And some of the other races are too, but Lamont was a week long of sleepless nights and a lot of things that we couldn’t anticipate and you just had to adjust for the minute you landed at De Gaulle and it all kind of went downhill from there, but I don’t regret a minute of it.

And it was worth every moment of painstaking planning that it took to get me there. So if you’re looking into making your travel arrangements to the hundred and first Lamar and beyond definitely take up the ACO and their wealth of knowledge on how to arrange this sort of trip.

David Lowe: You definitely want to take advantage of what the members club has to offer.

Like you talked about the, uh, ACO Tribune, 1718. That’s my go to Tribune. Purchase access to La Chapelle, which is incredible, uh, hospitality facility [00:31:00] located there, uh, just beyond the Dunlop bridge, which is an incredible, uh, Viewing of Tetra Rouge, you know, cars coming through the Dunlop. It’s a great place to view as well as the hospitality tents area.

Honestly, big screen TVs give you the best view. They’re just these huge screens and you hear the sound right there and you see him right now on the big screen. So it’s a, it’s a wonderful place. Plan to go for a week. If you only go for the day of the race, you’re going to miss a lot. You need to. Kind of watch the race come alive.

The pits get built out and you want to get a paddock pass. Might cost you a few extra dollars. You want to do that with the club. So you’ve got access to La Chapelle and the members areas there at T17. So, but in the meantime, throughout the year, as we build up, you’ve got these events that we’re putting together around the country.

Got the zoom meetings each month, evening with a legend, which. Absolutely are incredible. We’re open to suggestions. A lot of the ideas we get come from volunteers that actually set it up for us. We have a lot of past presidents from other car clubs that are members that provide good [00:32:00] sound wisdom and guidance for us as we grow our wings, if you will.

Well, David, we

Crew Chief Eric: reached that part of the episode where I get to ask any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t covered thus far. I tell

David Lowe: the story was on a meeting one night at nine o’clock. One of the staff wanted to do a follow up call as he was asking me that I got a text message from Margie.

That’s Margie Smith Haas. She said she wanted to talk to me. I said, listen, I’m going to need 15 minutes. I need to return this call. I hadn’t spoken with her before. She said she wanted to talk to me. So I’ve got to take this call. That was at nine o’clock at 11 o’clock. I said, Margie, I’m going to have to hang up now because I’ve got to get up at five o’clock in the morning.

Make a long story short. Margie’s lost her husband in. late March. This was in early April when I was talking with her, and she was really in the doldrums. But in the course of that two hours, she went from a low to this high in the sky. And in the course of conversations, she said, well, you know, Paul would have really wanted me to go to the 24 this year.

I’m going, Margie, I don’t know how [00:33:00] that we can do that. We’re sold out for the race. There are no tickets. And I felt really bad. I said, well, I can’t really promise you anything, Margie. So the next morning I called the committee member and I said, yeah, I’m sorry, I didn’t get back with you last night. It was Margie and she really wants to go to race.

And I don’t know how we could pull that off. There are no tickets. And then there was a silence on the line and he said, I’ll give her one of mine. That’s incredible community. That’s just an example of the way the members step up and take care of one another. Absolutely takes you away.

Crew Chief Eric: And I’m glad you brought Margie up.

And we hope to have her on a subsequent episode of break fix here in the near future. And for those that are tuning in and wondering, Who is she exactly? She’s one of the Le Mans legends, and she’s the first woman from the United States to run at Le Mans. She actually predates Lynn St. James by about four years, and she did it in a Porsche 935.

So quite the achievement to be the first woman, especially American woman to run at Le Mans. So I got to meet her. She was an absolute delight to talk to. And again, I hope to have her on the show here in the near future. Oh, [00:34:00] absolutely. And

David Lowe: for those listening, I just wanted to point out that. Jim Busby was the driver that transitioned Margie to the 935 and she hasn’t met him in almost 40 years.

Yeah, talk about an amazing reunion. When Jim did his evening with the legend, Margie was in the audience and I got her in the room early so she could talk to him, but she hadn’t spoken with him for 40 years and to see that was priceless. Just a shout out to Ruben Sanchez, who is our media director. He hooked me up with Rick Newt early on when we started, and Rick was gracious enough to be our first Evening with a Legend.

It’s an event that we have once a month. Right now we focus just on the 24 hours, so the presentation is just about the 24, and then you have a chance to ask them a question live right there on the Zoom. And it’s really kind of funny to watch as the moderator. He’ll get to the end and says, Anybody have a question?

It’s like tearing the headlight. What are you going to ask a legend that’s going to be nearly as engaging as what they’ve just been telling you for, for the last 45 minutes. But people are getting a little more brave now and [00:35:00] they’ll start asking questions. But early on, they wouldn’t ask a question just because the legends and their stories are just so captivating that it’s intimidating to ask a question.

Hopefully we’ve got members watching your episode tonight, a real shout out to all the volunteers and the legends that have gotten us this far in such a short period of time and the gracious hospitality of people like yourself and other folks that have lent and contributed to our success along the way.

So many things. From the awe

Crew Chief Eric: inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance, the 24 Hours of Le Mans is an automotive spectacle like no other. For over a century, the 24 Hours of Le Mans has urged manufacturers to innovate for the benefit of future motorists, and it’s a celebration of the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.

To learn more about the ACO USA, you can reach out to David via email at d. lowe at aco lemans.[00:36:00]

org. And if you’d like to become a member of the ACO, look no further than www. lemans. org, click on English in the upper right corner, and then click on the ACO Members tab for club offers. As a member, you can follow all the action. On the Facebook group, ACO USA members club. And with that, David, I cannot thank you enough for coming on break fix, sharing your personal story, your journey through LeMans all the way to the head of the ACO USA and helping promote one of the longest running, but fastest growing new motorsport and vehicle enthusiast clubs in the world.

So thank you for everything you’re doing. And we look forward to your continued progress and being part of the

David Lowe: next a hundred years of LeMans. We certainly appreciate the opportunity to promote on your show. It was very gracious of you to have us. Thank you so much, Eric. It’s been an honor and a pleasure.

Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you tired of just sitting in the pits? Explore the many advantages of becoming an ACO member today. ACO [00:37:00] membership benefits. Exclusive to the United States include live streaming of the 24 hours of LeMans free practices one, two, three, and four qualifying, hyper pole, morning warmup, and the race.

You can get your member name on the fan wall at the famous LeMans circuit. Invitations to an evening with a legend series presentations that are exclusive to USA members where a legend of the famous 24 hours will share stories and highlights of the big event regular interactive video conferences featuring technical experts and racing personalities as well as ACO USA member merchandise, but most of all, as a member of the automobile club of the West in the United States, you will be part of a community of fans that share your passion for the excitement of the 24 hours of Le Mans and endurance racing around the world.

If you’d like to become a member of the ACO, look no further than www. lemans. org. Click on English in the upper right corner, and then click on the ACO [00:38:00] members tab for club offers.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770. Or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, [00:39:00] editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

None of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
01:30 Guest Introduction: David Lowe
01:50 David Lowe’s Early Motorsport Memories
03:15 First Le Mans Experience
03:54 A Chance Encounter in Thailand
06:00 Involvement with ACO and Motorsport
07:23 Reflections on Le Mans Centennial
11:28 The ACO Club and Membership
14:34 ACO USA: Building a Community
18:52 Membership Perks and Costs
19:26 Access to the Race and Viewing Options
20:00 Le Mans Experience and ACO Lounges
20:48 Future Plans and Collaborations
24:54 Volunteer Opportunities and Contributions
27:26 Legends and Their Stories
29:16 Planning Your Trip to Le Mans
31:38 Upcoming Events and Community Engagement
35:09 Final Thoughts and Shoutouts

Bonus Content

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All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

To learn more about ACO USA, you can reach out to David via email at d.lowe@aco-lemans.org and if you’d like to become a member of the ACO, look no further than www.lemans.org, Click on English in the upper right corner and then click on the ACO members tab for Club Offers. As a member you can follow all the action on the FaceBook group ACOUSAMembersClub.

The ACO USA isn’t just a ticketing service – it’s a community. David made nearly 400 phone calls to past and present members to understand what they wanted. The result? A club that offers exclusive access to live streams, private Facebook groups, and events that money can’t buy.

One standout event is “Blown Away in San Diego,” a sunset sail aboard the Schooner America followed by dinner at the San Diego Yacht Club. Each table is hosted by a racing legend – Jim Busby, Doc Bundy, Margie Smith-Haas, Steve Earle, and more. These legends don’t just show up – they engage, share stories, and connect with fans in ways that transcend autographs and selfies.

We asked him what his favorite car of all time was, he replied, “Ford GT-40” – without hesitation; Photo courtesy David Lowe

Membership Perks and Future Plans

For just €98 (about $105), members get:

Early access to discounted race tickets
Name on the fan wall at Le Mans
Exclusive merchandise and discounts
Private Facebook group access
Live stream of the 24 Hours of Le Mans
Invitations to member-only events

And the club is growing. With 16 regional “nodes” identified across the U.S., David plans to host watch parties featuring the full race film – complete with chicken tenders and nachos (wings are out, apparently). The club will also be present at Petit Le Mans and WEC’s return to COTA in 2024.

David has been to well over 20 LeMans in his career along with future guest of Break/Fix Ruben Sanchez the head of Marketing & Social Media for ACO USA, seen here together!; Photo courtesy David Lowe

ACO USA thrives on volunteer power. From lawyers and graphic designers to social media managers and event planners, there’s room for everyone. “Ask and you shall receive a task,” David joked. Whether it’s organizing meetups or packing swag, members are stepping up to build something legendary.

David Lowe’s story is proof that motorsports isn’t just about speed – it’s about connection, legacy, and passion. Whether you’re a lifelong fan or new to endurance racing, ACO USA offers a front-row seat to history. As David says, “Le Mans is like a diamond. Each time you go, you see a different facet.” So why not become part of the legend?

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Monterey Car Week ’23 in the Rear View (37 Events You Missed!)

Event Recap

Eric M

August 22, 2023

Monterey Car Week ’23 in the Rear View (37 Events You Missed!)

01. WeatherTech Race Car Show on Alvarado

WeatherTech kicked off Car Week with a classic car show in downtown Monterey. We saw 30 classic race cars lining the 300 block of Alvarado Street (by the intersection of Monterey Conference Center and Portola Hotel and Spa).

We also met the drivers of these beautiful examples of racing history while enjoying great music and giveaways.

After the race cars rolled out we headed to dinner at the famed motorsports-inspired Turn-12 Restaurant in downtown Monterey, which is an obvious nod to WeatherTech Laguna Seca Raceway. We enjoyed a great meal surrounded by pieces of motorsports memorabilia.

Rolex Monterey Historics – Car Week 2023

Eric M

August 20, 2023

Rolex Monterey Historics – Car Week 2023

WeatherTech Laguna Seca Raceway is held in highest regard as one of the “driving nirvana” tracks in the United States and it was the perfect back drop to reignite the discussion around 911 v Corvette in Part-1 of this article over on Garage Style Magazine. However, it’s time to dig a little deeper into the weeks events at the Rolex Monterey Historics.

How does this all tie back to Monterey Car Week or even the famed Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance?

The Pebble Beach Grand Prix (originally known as “The Pebble Beach Road Races”), were a series of legendary sports car races held in the picturesque coastal town of Pebble Beach, California, from 1950 to 1956. These races, were held on a challenging course that wound its way through the scenic Del Monte Forest and attracted some of the finest drivers and cars of the era, including legends like Phil Hill and Carroll Shelby. Initially run on public roads, the races eventually moved to Laguna Seca Raceway. Voila!

Though Car Week may have a disputed “kick-off or start date” the Monterey Historics have always run autonomously but concurrently with all the surrounding Car Week festivities. It’s the place where petrol-heads, like myself, flock to see “art in motion” rather than carefully parked on manicured golf courses, like this gorgeous Ferrari LeMans Prototype below.

The Monterey Historics span the majority of car week kicking off on Tuesday with Practice Sessions, followed by Qualifying and finally 2 full days of racing. All of this action leads up to and ends on Saturday before the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance just like in the 1950s. There’s something for every generation of vehicle and motorsports enthusiast.

Like most of the historic race tracks in the United States found on the major racing schedules, Laguna Seca has all the amenities you’d find at any world-class track. VIP lounges, eateries, vendor booths, clean facilities, ample parking and shuttle services, but more importantly… the ability to see every corner.

Some tracks might be easier than others to navigate between different sections and corners on foot, but Laguna won’t be on that list. Being built surrounding a dry lake bed, the natural terrain of the mountains in the area makes for a dusty uphill climb most everywhere you venture. But it’s worth it!

Part of Laguna Seca’s charm is the famed combination of corners (Turns 8 and 8A) better known as “The Corkscrew.” This section of the track is one of the most iconic and challenging turns in motorsports. It features a dramatic elevation change with a steep descent, dropping from the entry to the exit is approximately 59 feet (roughly 6 stories) over a very short distance, making it an extremely steep and challenging section of the track (as seen below).

This elevation change, combined with the sharp left-right combination of turns, creates a unique and thrilling experience for drivers as they navigate this famous part of the circuit.

2023 Rolex Monterey Historics – The Run Groups

There is so much to do and see at the Monterey Historics, you could spend time wandering the paddock talking with drivers about their stories, or learning more about their cars, and in some cases they probably wouldn’t mind if you lent a hand turning some wrenches.

The schedule of events for the historics is jam packed with 13 run groups featuring all eras and types of race cars. From the pre-war classics, to compacts like Mini Coopers & FIATs, and ground thumping Trans-Am cars or vintage Formula 1, it also includes other parades of vehicles and exhibitions.

If you’re an avid fan of racing, the HSR and SCCA have carefully curated the following classes of cars and racing for you to enjoy throughout the week.

Formula 5000
1966-1985 Formula One – non-turbo
1966-1974 Can-Am; 1963-1968 USRRC – V8 only
1966-1972 Trans-Am
1955-1969 Saloon cars
1972-1981 FIA, IMSA, GT, GTX, AAGT, GTU, Trans Am
1981-2007 GTP, Group C, DP, WSC, LMP & GT1 (GT1 through 2009)
1955-1967 SCCA Production – Large Displacement
1955-1967 SCCA Production – Small Displacement
1927-1955 Grand Prix/Open wheel single seat racing cars
1947-1960 Front-Engined Sports Racing and GT
1981-1991 GTO/Trans-Am
1961-1971 FIA Manufacturers Championship
Ragtime Racers exhibition

From this fabulous line-up of racing history we chose to focus on Groups 4, 6 and 13 as being a few of the ones that were “most important” because they resonated with our childhoods.

Group 4: Trans AM (1980-1991)

The 1980s Trans-Am series marked a resurgence in American muscle car racing. After the decline of the original Trans-Am era in the 1970s, the ’80s saw a revival, with iconic muscle cars like the Chevrolet Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Pontiac Firebird returning to the track.

Group 6: Vintage Formula 1 (1966-1985 non-Turbo)

Beginning with the introduction of the Ford-Cosworth DFV (Double Four Valve) V8 engine in 1967 along with aerodynamic advancements, including the introduction of wings and ground effects, these changes started to shape car design and racing. Drivers like Jackie Stewart, Emerson Fittipaldi, and Jochen Rindt emerged as stars. In the 1970s, Ferrari, with its 12-cylinder naturally aspirated engines, became a dominant force, winning multiple championships. The rivalry between Ferrari and McLaren added excitement to the sport, while Niki Lauda and James Hunt became iconic figures in this era.

Later in this period, ground effects technology, which used the underbody of the car to generate downforce, became prevalent. The Brabham team, led by Bernie Ecclestone and Gordon Murray, introduced innovations like the BT46B “fan car.” Drivers like Mario Andretti and Alan Jones achieved success during this period. The late 1980s saw the transition to turbocharged engines, marking the end of the naturally aspirated era in Formula One. Formula One’s history from 1966 to 1985 is rich with innovation, iconic cars, and legendary drivers, making it a pivotal chapter in the sport’s evolution.

Group 13: IMSA GTP, Group C & ALMS LMP-1

This combined class of cars is the most perfect pairing of racing super heroes. The GTP class emerged in the early 1980s, primarily in the United States, featuring purpose-built prototypes. Iconic cars like the Porsche 962, Jaguar XJR, and Nissan GTP ZX-Turbo dominating this era.

Group C was a widely recognized international sports car racing category, featuring prototypes. Le Mans 24 Hours was the centerpiece of the Group C calendar, with famous cars like the Porsche 956 and 962, Jaguar XJR-9, and Sauber Mercedes C9. The later LMP classes (LMP900, LMP675, LMP1, LMP2) are known for their participation in prestigious events like the Le Mans 24 Hours and American Le Mans Series. Cars like the Audi R8, Peugeot 908, and Toyota TS050 Hybrid dominated LMP in the late ’90s and early 2000s. Put ALL of that together and you get one of the wildest and most eclectic run groups to watch at the historics.

Thankfully, all 13 run groups are on track multiple times throughout the course of the week. The cars are on track for 25 minute sessions multiple times during the week, but rest assured there’s tons of racing action throughout, the track is very rarely quiet.

Celebrating 70 years of Corvette Racing

Harley J. Earl and the Le Sabre concept car left a lasting impression on the village of Watkins Glen which inspired the creation of the iconic Corvette as we learned from our friends at the IMRRC. Corvettes have been run in Grand Prix racing by privateers since the 1950s, while the modern factory-backed Corvette Racing team has raced since the introduction C5.R in 1998 to its most recent win at the 100th Anniversary LeMans 24-hours in France with the C8.R driven by Ben Keating, Nico Varrone and Nicky Catsburg.

This year, everyone is either talking about or celebrating Corvette’s 70th birthday and the Monterey Historics have joined the fray. Guests of Break/Fix like Bill Warner, were on-site to help usher in and parade various race and prototype Corvettes for this celebration as well. You can learn more about the history and significance of Corvette in another article we published, or jump back to Part-1 of this article on Garage Style Magazine for a discussion about the rivalry between Porsche and Corvette.

Car Spotting: Porsche 962 CR

This has to be one of the coolest cars in the paddock. Predating the famed Porsche 911 GT1 Strassenversion, the 962 CR is a rare and highly sought-after sports car. The CR stands for “Customer Racing” and was not a racing car like the Porsche 962, which was a successful endurance racing prototype. Instead, the 962 CR was a road-legal, limited-production sports car with only 7 units being sold in the early 1990s.

Overall, the Pebble Beach Grand Prix played a significant role in the early development of sports car racing in the United States and is remembered as an iconic event in motorsports history and was always revered as the event that led up to the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance where the race cars were put on display after completing the Grand Prix.

The track’s challenging layout, including the famous Corkscrew, provides a thrilling backdrop for various racing series, including IndyCar and IMSA. The Grand Prix of Monterey is known for attracting top-tier racing talent and offering fans an unforgettable weekend of high-speed competition in the stunning natural setting of WeatherTech Laguna Seca Raceway. It continues to be a highlight on the motorsports calendar, showcasing the skill and speed of some of the world’s most elite drivers and teams.

Even though the original Pebble Beach Grand Prix was replaced with the “The Grand Prix of Monterey” in 1957 and moved to Laguna Seca, it has become a staple of American motorsports and its something we recommend everyone visiting the Monterey-area for Car Week should attend. #neverstoplearning.

Celebrating Porsche & Corvette at the Monterey Historics

Eric M

August 20, 2023

Celebrating Porsche & Corvette at the Monterey Historics

There are so many automotive rivalries: Ford v Ferrari, Honda v Toyota, Chevy v Ford, and the list goes on and on. But all of them actually have one thing in common, everyone seems to be getting a little older. That includes both Porsche (1948) and Corvette (1953) who are celebrating their respective 75th and 70th birthdays this year. GSM’s editor-in-chief, Don, is quick to remind folks about one of our earliest conversations, which was a debate over whether or not the 911 or the Corvette was “thee” everyman’s sports car.

Like two kittens batting at a ball of yarn we carried on a healthy debate for was what probably far too long. But unlike a debate about Porsche 959 vs Ferrari F40 where you can side with either the space-aged technical superiority of the 959 or the raw passion and exhilaration of a race car in street clothes that is the F40, settling on 911 v Corvette is really hard to do. And that’s where we have to step away from the road and take it to the track to settle the score. For an in-depth review of all the events and action at the Rolex Monterey Historics at WeatherTech Laguna Seca Raceway jump over to this follow-on article.

Taking this fight to the race track can get a little tricky. Porsche is renowned for its racing heritage, let’s face it, they’re an engineering company that starting building race cars before their production vehicles ever hit the road. Corvette on the other hand, and many might not know, was ALSO born at the race track. As Kip Zeiter from the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC) recounts in this special Break/Fix episode, the original Corvette design by Harley J. Earl took it’s inspiration from the early US Grand Prix’s at Watkins Glen.

Speaking of the IMRRC, we could also take this to the record books – which they carefully maintain – citing who was the most wins here, and the most wins there. Motorsports history is definitely important in this discussion but you also have to take into account that racing in the 1960s, ’70s, and ’80s was very different than today. Not just from a technological standpoint but from a regulatory perspective, the “rules of racing” have changed. These days cars are more equal and homogenized compared to the golden age of sports car racing, where building not just a better but, the best, mouse trap was the name of the game.

You could also make the argument that “Porsche has had so many *different* models in competition…” but so has Corvette. Most of the racing Porsches are either derivatives of, evolutions from, or variations on a theme. But Corvette has also shown that it can compete in GT, Concept, and Prototype classes with their cars as Kip mentioned in his presentation.

It’s funny when you sit back and look at this entire argument from 19,000 feet, you begin to wonder if it’s really even a rivalry at all. It’s more like a little brother trying to keep up with its older sibling. Porsche is the kid that got everything, and Corvette though a little resentful, looks up to Porsche and wants to be Porsche. That’s what has made both brands better, but also kept them from creating some sort of facsimile of each other and abandoning hope for the adage “if you can’t beat them join them.”

This year also marked another huge birthday in the Motorsports community, which was the 100th Anniversary of the 24 hours of LeMans, where Corvette took home the win with US-based driver Ben Keating at the wheel, along with teammates Nico Varrone and Nicky Catsburg. In celebration let’s also take a moment to applaud Corvette for their tenacity, a very American trait that is exemplified in their cars. It’s that “stick-tuitive-ness” that pushed GM to finally put together a mid-engined Corvette (the C8), which was able to prove itself from day one, as not only a contender, but a winner. To learn more (or continue) the discussion surrounding the future of Corvette Racing be sure to check out the ACO (Automobile Club d’Ouest) and it’s new USA based offerings and facebook group.

WeatherTech Laguna Seca Raceway is held in highest regard as one of the “driving nirvana” tracks in the US and it was the perfect back drop to reignite the discussion around 911 v Corvette. Hearing and seeing these beautiful pieces of machinery in action, brought back great stories of the golden age of sports car racing, memories of drivers, along with the successes and failures that included a smattering of fact finding. All that aside, it also brought us together to experience the camaraderie that Motorsports brings to the car community. Surrounded by all the other events going on during Monterey Car Week, the Laguna Seca experience takes art, and puts in in motion.

So where does all this leave us? Almost exactly where we started. From aesthetics to driving style, the sound of engines to the vehicle’s amenities, either car can be, and is, the ultimate B-road bomber, the car show heart-stopper, or track day weapon. There is no wrong answer, just personal preferences. In the end, you can’t go wrong with either the 911 or the Corvette.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

We’d love to hear your thoughts on this never-ending debate, so leave a comment below and express your vote for your favorite of the two… or is there a third option out there? We’ll leave that up to you. Meanwhile, Happy Birthday to both Porsche & Corvette – celebrating milestones this year – Here’s to 70+ more!

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<img class="tdb-logo-img" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CROPPED-1.png" alt="Logo" title="" width="2597" height="573" data-eio="l" />GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

<img class="tdb-logo-img" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CROPPED-1.png" alt="Logo" title="" width="2597" height="573" data-eio="l" />GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

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Check out some of the Live Coverage from LSRTV!

Follow Brock’s races on Twitch

Real-World Racing: Interning with Reaume Brothers Racing

Engineering Dreams and Communication Skills

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

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’80s Retro-Reviews & Throw-backs!

Final Thoughts: Buy Weird, Drive Proud

Thanks to our panel of Petrol-heads!

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

Guest Co-Host: Jeff Willis

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Guest Co-Host: Mark Shank

Be sure to catch our Executive Producer of our Drive Thru News series: Tania every month! As well as her very own episode of WSIB.

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Showcase: Car Week 2023

Automotive, EV & Car-Adjacent News

Bikes

Domestics

EVs & Concepts

Formula One

Japanese & JDM

Lost & Found

Lowered Expectations

Motorsports

Koenigsegg making 280mph carbon wheels

Rich People Thangs!

Stellantis

Tesla

VAG & Porsche

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Would you like fries with that?

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Harley J. Earl visits the Glen.

Pit Stop! A look back at the 1951 sports car races in Watkins Glen that inspired the ‘Vette.

Relive “Corvette Racing” at WGI.

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01. WeatherTech Race Car Show on Alvarado

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GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014