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Why Track Day Insurance Matters: Inside OpenTrack’s Mission to Protect Passionate Drivers

September 13, 2022

For many motorsports enthusiasts, the track is more than just asphalt and apexes – it’s a sanctuary. A third place between home and work, where adrenaline meets community. But for all the joy that comes with pushing your car to its limits, there’s always that nagging “what if?” – the fear of damage, liability, or worse. That’s where OpenTrack Insurance steps in.

In a recent episode of the Break/Fix podcast, Brett Larson, Head of Sales at OpenTrack, joined the conversation to unpack the company’s origin story, its unique approach to coverage, and why it’s become a game-changer for track day drivers across North America.

OpenTrack was founded in 2013 by Ben Phillips, who saw a glaring hole in the insurance landscape while researching coverage for Palm Beach International Raceway. Existing policies were restrictive – limited vehicle values, sanctioned events only, high deductibles, and single-event coverage. Ben envisioned something better: a product built for the lifestyle of serious drivers.

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Inspired by Howard Schultz’s idea of Starbucks as a “third place,” Ben saw the track as that same kind of refuge for enthusiasts. He dove into market research, spoke with clubs and drivers, and even cold-called Aston Martin owners. The result? A policy that flipped the script: coverage for high-value vehicles, non-sanctioned events, low deductibles, and annual unlimited memberships.

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, the focus is on OpenTrack, an insurance provider that caters to track day enthusiasts. Crew Chief Eric, interviews Brett Larson, head of sales for OpenTrack, about the company’s origins, their offerings, and the motivation behind their unique insurance products. Brett details OpenTrack’s comprehensive and flexible insurance solutions tailored for high-performance track cars, including options for single events and year-long coverage. They discuss the product’s inception by CEO Ben Phillips, who identified a gap in the market for track day insurance. The conversation addresses various coverage aspects, from on-track incidents and liability to vehicle valuation and deductibles. Additionally, Brett talks about OpenTrack’s Drive Better program, offering participants free driver coaching and various resources to improve their skills. The episode concludes with contact information for listeners interested in learning more or providing feedback on OpenTrack’s services.

Origin Story: Who/What/When/Where/How was OpenTrack formed?
What kinds of Motorsports does OpenTrack cover?
Let’s get down to some specific listener questions about your coverage:
- What about an incident in the paddock? What about in transit? Is the trailer covered? What if something happens while the car is on the trailer, etc.
- What drivers are covered under the policy. When I’ve called I’ve been told that anyone that drives the car is covered, but when registering an event in the policy online I must list drivers and can only add two.
- When is fire damage covered by track insurance? I’ve heard that a car that catches fire is only covered if the fire happens in connection with a collision.
- If a car has a declared value that is higher than the KBB value and it is totaled, what is the maximum payout? Would it be the full declared value or KBB value plus the value (replacement cost?) of the modifications?
- We’ve also heard that OpenTrack is the only Track Insurance provider that will cover vehicles with a declared value over 150k?
- How much personal liability insurance is provided when track insurance for a vehicle is purchased?
- Does track insurance cover the driver’s liability for damage done to the track (i.e., will OpenTrack pay for tire barrier/wall repairs or track cleanup?).
- In the event of a “Total Loss”, how can the owner retain the damaged vehicle for salvage or parts?
How does someone sign up for OpenTrack Insurance? What are the costs/plans? Are there packages? How do you determine “declared value?”
OpenTrack also offers the “Drive Better” program, what’s that all about?

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motor sports related. There’s always a reason not to do something, and in our case, it’s that gnawing, clawing feeling of what if holding us back from trying Motorsports. We were all there once.

Many of us aren’t anymore, and that’s a result of organizations like Open Track that make it possible to have total coverage of your prized vehicle no matter what happens at an event. Open Track’s, flexible track day. Insurance solutions allow drivers to do what they love most. Get more time behind the wheel and on track from single event policies to 365 day coverage.

You get the insurance you need when you need it. And with us tonight to discuss why you should protect yourself and your vehicle investment with Open Track is Brett Larson, head of sales for Open Track Insurance. So Brett, welcome, welcome [00:01:00] to Break Fix. Thanks, Erics. Thanks for inviting me. Like every good break fix episode, we always start with the who, what, where, when, and why.

So let’s talk about the origin story behind open track. Yeah, yeah. It’s a pretty good one, great place to start. So open track is, I’d say in its infancy, even though we’ve been around for. About eight years now. But back in 2013, Ben Phillips, who is our C E O and our creator was at the time a private client producer, and he had a unique inquiry or request from someone that asked him to find a market for commercial lines coverage for Palm Beach International Raceway.

As he was researching carrier options for that inquiry, he realized there was also. A need or a gap for the tracks private club members and other track day enthusiasts who were tracking at that club on the weekends. And so what he had found is that the existing carriers that were offering coverage for track day, it was limited.

They were limited to just up to a hundred k, single [00:02:00] vehicle value. They were only offering coverage for sanctioned H P D E events. That’s high performance driver education. They were only offering higher deductibles. And there were only offering single event coverage. And so Ben saw that gap and he said to himself, these people are trying to get out to the track.

And some of them are going often. There’s some of them also that were driving higher valued vehicles. He also had read some research at the time indicating that the number of drivers and the hobby were in fact growing at a pretty good pace. Howard Schultz, the c e o of Starbucks once said, Starbucks serves as a third place between home and work.

An extension between people’s lives at a time when people have no place to go. Ben saw the same situation happening with track day enthusiasts. They were going home work, and their third place was the track. So he began doing additional market research, extensive market research. He talked to drivers, he was talking to motor sports enthusiasts, anyone he could find that was connected into this [00:03:00] lifestyle and sport to gather feedback.

And one of the conversations he had at the time was a cold call. Actually to Nick Candy, who was associated with the Aston Martin car club. Ben talked to him for more than an hour. Who wants to have a conversation about insurance for an hour? Right? I mean, that’s just the first question I have from this conversation.

Bill. Ben knew there was a great passion for this sport, for this hobby, but something was missing, and that’s the point where the spark for open track was lit. So Ben decided he was gonna build the product. That would fit the lifestyle of the passionate and serious drivers and be something they actually wanted as well.

People need to buy insurance, and of course they benefit from it, but most insurance products aren’t built for them and they don’t desire to purchase it. Open track is a business. Was built to break that mold, so we did exactly the opposite of the other carrier. We insured only vehicles greater than a hundred thousand dollars value.

We ensured all track time that was non-competitive. Regardless of whether the event [00:04:00] was sanctioned, we offered a low deductible and we offered annual unlimited membership. Now, initially, because Ben was a producer, he thought that this product would be an appetizer to bring in clients for cross-sell opportunities, home auto umbrella, you know, those basic coverages focused on private client where this kind of plays.

However, he quickly found that open track was a self-sustaining business built around the lifestyle of passionate drivers who wanted to drive faster and drive better. We started getting comments from clients such as, this is the first time I’ve purchased an insurance product that I feel was built specifically for me.

In the early stages, and based on actual client feedback, the open track product and form was iterated 20 plus times. We took client feedback very seriously. In 2018, we dropped down to ensure vehicles as low as $30,000 value. Additionally, we added track day liability coverage, and in 2021 we launched. Our drive better program, which includes free driver coaching, access to hobby [00:05:00] specific webinars, and some other things on demand.

While the pace of iteration has slowed down, our desire to continue enhancing our offering and to provide greater value to our clients has not changed. We’ll continue to put the client at the center of our universe and we’re going to try to help people drive more and drive better. Wow. There’s a lot to unpack there.

And we have some very detailed questions that some of our audience has asked us to relay to you, and we’ll go through that in a q and a type of session here. And I think one of the first ones that needs to be addressed is, as you guys have grown, do you still only cover H B D E or do you cover other types of motorsports as well?

So open track will. Cover any track time on road courses on our covered tracks that is non-competitive. So obviously that’s gonna include the H P D E events, but it also includes, and this is where we really become competitive, is the private track days. So there’s a lot of private track clubs popping up throughout the country.

There are [00:06:00] memberships, like a golf membership, like you go to the golf club, these drivers are going to their track. And so as long as the driver is tracking at one of our 120 covered tracks, Most in the US, but some is well in Canada and they’re not participating in a competitive event, they’d be eligible for coverage.

So one of the other questions that comes up a lot is, what about an incident in the paddock? Is that covered? So our product is on track only, so it’s on the track surface. Our products do not cover. While in the paddock though, there are products available in the marketplace for the paddock as well as if it’s a, a vehicle that they’re bringing on the track, which I’ll back up.

We actually do cover both regular road use vehicles as well as track only vehicles. So if that vehicle is a road use vehicle, that driver probably has a policy in place to cover them for that. That would cover them up to getting to the track. There is that bit of a gap in the middle for the paddock.

There are products out there in the marketplace that would cover that. So that answers the next question, which is [00:07:00] does the policy cover the vehicle in transit? Is the trailer covered? What if something happens while the car is on the trailer? Things like that. So that’s probably a no, right? Correct. Yes.

It’s not covered until it hits the track surface with our products. When you talk about the policy, not only does it usually cover the car, but it also covers the driver. So one of the other questions that gets fielded is what drivers are covered under the policy? Because when folks have called, they’ve been told that anyone that drives the car is covered.

But when registering for the event policy online, you have to list all the drivers. Maybe there’s a maximum you can set there. How does that work for open track? Our products, we do not limit. Or cap, the number of drivers, additional drivers that can be added to our policies, and that’s either our daily policy or our annual program.

No additional costs for adding drivers. The only limitation that we have is that the drivers must be at least 25 years old. We do not insure anyone less than that. That [00:08:00] said, if a policy holder is being professionally instructed, the instructor would be covered automatically as a driver without having to have them be specifically added to the policy for any other additional driver situations.

However, the person must be specifically listed for coverage to apply. Let’s say there’s an instance where. A coach or an instructor is driving the policy holder’s vehicle, maybe showing them some laps, doing some things like that, and something occurs, whether it’s mechanical, there’s an incident, whatever.

Does the policy suddenly change? Let’s say that instructor is not listed on that person’s policy either, right? They didn’t add them. How does that all play out? If the instructor is in the process of instructing them, then they are covered automatically as a driver. For any damages that would occur to that vehicle.

Another one of our listeners asks, when is fire damage covered by track insurance? I’ve heard that if a car catches fire, it is only covered if the fire [00:09:00] happens in connection with a collision. True or false? That is true. Yes. Our policy will provide coverage for damage to the vehicle only when caused by a collision.

Mechanical failure or other similar losses would not be a A covered cause of loss? Yes. So if you blow a fuel line or something happens that you’re on your own, at that point it’s not covered? Correct. Another question that came across our desk. If a car has a declared value that is higher than the Kelly Blue Book value, and it is totaled, what is the maximum payout?

Would it be the full declared value or Kelly Blue Book value plus parts replacement? Costs of the modification? So it gets really complicated with track cars. So how do you guys determine what the full value is? So our policy is written on a stated amount basis. And what that means is that in the event of a covered loss, we will pay out the lesser of the cost to repair or replace.

So if a vehicle is determined to be a total loss at the time of a claim, the maximum that would be paid out is the coverage limit on the [00:10:00] policy minus the deductible Of course. If the value of the vehicle at the time of the loss then is less than the coverage limit on the policy, and the vehicle is determined to be a total loss, then the client would be indemnified up to the amount of the actual value of the vehicle, which might not be that limit that they have on their policy.

This is why it is very imperative. That vehicles are insured to the most accurate replacement cost or market value, including any upgrades or enhancements. So our goal is to indemnify the driver so that they have the opportunity to replace that vehicle if they so choose. However, we don’t want them to be over-insured and paying for coverage they don’t need.

So reading between the lines there, basically you need to come to the table and make sure you’ve saved all of your receipts when you come up with that. Estimated value of your vehicle, right? It’s not just, well, it was a $4,000 Miata. There’s $25,000 worth of parts on top of it, making it, let’s say a $30,000 car, correct?

Yeah. We won’t need that for [00:11:00] policy issuance. That’s not part of our quoting or issuance process. But at the time of a claim, the vehicle owner would want to have that on hand to provide to the claims representative to provide a smooth process. So you talked earlier in the intro about the $30,000 entry point, that lower limit, is that still the case or has been dropped More and a segue from this conversation where we look at the total value of a race car, right?

It’s worth, or a track day car. It’s worth more in parts than it is whole. So does that play into, I can get my base $1,500 Miata. Up to 30 grand because let’s say it’s an s s M car that I took to a de, well, first of all, our lowest limit we offer is $30,000. Now, in the event of a loss, going back to my prior statement, we are not going to just automatically pay out that 30 k.

It’s still the lesser of cost. To repair or replace. So while we don’t go down below 30 K for a coverage limit, we can ensure vehicles that are of a lower value. The [00:12:00] driver would just have to know that we’re gonna pay up to the amount of the actual value on the vehicle. So what’s the deductible generally, right.

Our deductible on our daily policy program is 10% of the vehicle value. So that’s a flat amount multiplied by the value that they’ve chosen at coverage issuance. And then on the annual program, it’s a 5% deductible except for a few unique situations where it will still be the 10% and that would be McLarens.

Are still 10% on our annual program and vehicles greater than $300,000 are still a 10% deductible. So you’re looking at basically a minimum deductible of 3000 bucks if you’re coming in at that lowest threshold. Now, obviously it climbs from there with certain caveats for the really. Much more expensive vehicles.

150,000 and above, let’s just say. Correct. As you mentioned and we’ve heard before, open Track is the only track insurance provider that will cover vehicles with a declared value over $150,000. Is that true? [00:13:00] False? Yes, very true. Will insure vehicles up to a value on a single vehicle of $500,000. So as far as our coverage is concerned, we do not require that the vehicle be a registered vehicle.

We’ll cover registered vehicles and we’ll cover non-registered vehicles. The true track only cars, for instance, rush Auto Works. The Rush Sr is a non road legal vehicle. We’ll cover it. We will cover the G GT two rss, anything that’s not road licensed, and it could be a, an eligible vehicle for the road, but it may not be road titled and ready.

And so we will cover those. No problem. Those can be in our program. We don’t require it as long as they’re at an H P D event. As long as it’s non-competition, though, there are some vehicle types that we’ll not insure at this point. We do not insure Ferrari and we do not insure any open wheeled vehicles or formula cars, F cars, whatever you wanna call them, Ferrari specifically, we did ensure them until fairly recently.

However, what [00:14:00] ultimately put the nail in the coffin is that Ferrari accounted for very low percentage of our premiums, but a fairly high percentage of our losses. So that’s Ferrari across the board. So even if you have, let’s say, a Magnum PI 3 0 8, it’s not covered. It doesn’t matter what year it is. It doesn’t matter the year or the model.

And then on the open wheel side, not just F cars, but does this also include things like the KTM crossbow, the aerial atom, things like that, that are more open cockpit, open wheel type of vehicles? No, we will cover those cuz they are a semi-closed wheel. They’re not completely open. So we do the aerials and the cas and, and things like that.

You will cover those? Yes. Good to know. I mean, that’s a little asterisk on that open wheel idea, but, okay, so no formula cars, but then again, you’re not gonna see too many F class vehicles at a de either, right? Usually they don’t run at those types of events, not at de, but because we will cover private track clubs ah, and track them at those clubs.

A lot of those members do have those [00:15:00] types of vehicles. So another question from one of our listeners. How much personal liability insurance is provided when track insurance for a vehicle is purchased? I’ll start by saying, we are the only track day insurance product or products. That offer true liability coverage.

We have liability limits of 1 million and 2 million available. But I’d like to clarify this. Coverage is not mandatory. Drivers can purchase our physical damage coverage on its own if they’d like to, and then add the liability if they’re concerned with that exposure. Does open Track’s insurance cover the driver’s liability for damage done to the track?

For example, will open track pay for a tire barrier or tire wall repairs to the track or any sort of cleanup? Yes. If the client has purchased our liability coverage, it would cover damage to track property, including damage to a wall or the track surface. Additionally, it will also apply or cover fluid cleanup.

Do you [00:16:00] submit that as a separate claim or does that get submitted at the same time you’re putting in? Obviously there’s gonna be a collision claim here too. Are they all under one transaction or two separate ones? It would be a single claim transaction if it is in conjunction with. A collision? Yes. In the event of a total loss, how can the owner retain the damaged vehicle for salvage or for parts?

Each claim is unique. I’ll start by saying that, and so I cannot provide specifics. However, I can say that the client does have the opportunity to negotiate keeping their vehicle if and when it has been determined to be a total loss. So there is that negotiation process that takes place with the claims representative.

So this last one here is part of our 20 questions section of this, of this interview. It’s a little complicated, it’s multi-part, so hang on. One of our listeners writes What or who does the insurance cover? Does it cover the facility owner, the event organizers, third party me against what? [00:17:00] Respectively facilities, damage, harm and lawsuit, medical injury.

I feel like I’m watching one of those infomercials right now and the list continues to go on and on and on. So I guess it’s further refinement of. The caveats of the plan and what it can and can’t cover. Obviously we talked about being able to cover the tire barriers and the fluid cleanup, which is awesome.

So what other things are maybe buried in this policy that could be covered? Yeah, so the physical damage portion, uh, of the policy is pretty straightforward in that it covers damage to the insured’s vehicle from a collision while on track. The liability coverage covers property or bodily injury damages to a third party, so it’s going to extend for any damages that if I were a driver, that I cause to others who are external to my vehicle.

So pretty much everything external to my vehicle could be covered under that liability policy if I’m found liable for that damage. Additionally, the liability coverage does include legal defense coverage that would protect the client [00:18:00] in the event that they are brought into a lawsuit for their actions on track that coverage is provided without regard to fault, for no fault of their own.

They could be sued, but they still have the need to defend themselves. Our liability coverage is going to provide that defense coverage, and I get the facility and event organizer question as well because sometimes the track will pass fees on to the H P D E organizer and then the org. Organizer will pass those fees on again to the person that was involved in the incident.

Again, like we talked about submitting, you know, a separate transaction for the tire barrier and the fluid cleanup. If some other fees were passed on, are those also covered by the track insurance? I think that would have to come down to a very specific claims situation and a claims representative.

Possibly an expert would have to weigh in on that. It really comes down to liability. You know, from a liability standpoint, what were they responsible for? Did they do something that caused damage to someone else? So that’s why I say it has to come back to a specific claim situation, [00:19:00] because that gets into some legality as far as how the contract reads.

Absolutely. And then part of that, just to split hairs a little bit, because in this complex question that was posed, there was also the medical injury to themselves. You talked about to the other person at that point. That’s where you say asterisk. This is covered by your a, d and D or accidental death and dismemberment, or your life insurance and your personal medical insurance.

If something were to happen to you, let’s say the cause of the incident. Yes. So anyone inside of, again, I’ll put myself in the driver’s seat. If I’m in my vehicle, anyone in my vehicle, whether it’s myself or a potential passenger, there is no bodily injury coverage for anyone in the vehicle, like you said, would be covered by their health insurance or another product that they have that covers them for that type of loss.

Now, the ideal situation here is, let’s say it’s not a car on barrier collision. Let’s say it’s a car on car collision. Both cars are covered by track [00:20:00] insurance. At that point, let’s say. Open track would pay out to the other person to cover any injury, loss, whatever there. But the question I think that stems out of that is, let’s say that vehicle is a student and the instructor.

How does that work? Are they both covered in that instance? Uh, for bodily injury specifically? Yeah. Say the instructor and student were hit by someone with track insurance, open track specifically, they would be covered. Right? Yes, they would be yes, because they are external to the vehicle that we are ensuring, or our driver who we are ensuring when talking about liability that would be potentially covered for their bodily injuries.

Again, ideally, both vehicles would be covered by open track. Therefore, the person that got hit is covered and the person that did the hitting is also basically covered at that point, and both parties come out pretty much on top in the end, let’s just say. Yes, and let’s say both of those drivers are covered by open track and the liability or the the fault is difficult [00:21:00] to determine, then each of those persons would file a claim on their own policy for the damages.

Obviously, bodily injury might start playing into that because the policy for myself doesn’t include bodily injury for myself, so that could be sticky, but it is essentially a no fault policy for my damages. One of the mitigating factors, a lot of times, let’s say in regular insurance policies, has to do with the weather.

And many of us run rain or shine at the track. So that could be, to your point, one of those gray areas, like how did the accident actually occur, things like that. And luckily that’s pretty much null and void in this case. But is there an instance or scenario or use case. Where somebody would not be covered.

They did something, whether it’s negligence or something that would just null and void the policy. Yeah, unfortunately, Eric, I’m not able to speak to that. I don’t know if we’ve run into that in the past. All right, so let’s switch away from the inquisition here, away from our listener base questions, and now that we have a little bit more idea of how [00:22:00] this works, people are excited to sign up.

They’re hearing about open track for the first time. How do they go about getting their track insurance? What are the costs? Like? What are the plans? Are there different packages? Let’s dig a little deeper into declared value, and how do you step somebody through that process? Do they need to get an an appraisal?

You know, how does this whole thing work? Yeah, so I’ll start with how does someone sign up for our coverage? For open track, so our policies can be purchased on our website@opentrack.com. Our quoting is pretty simple. Quoting, underwriting, and issuance process is the quickest in the marketplace. With coverage issued in just a matter of minutes, the client will even have a policy document in their possession via email immediately after making payment for the coverage.

So there’s just a bit of information when they go out to the website to get through that quoting and underwriting process, the vehicle information, their name, their birthdate, any additional drivers they want to add to the policy, as well as whether they want both the [00:23:00] physical damage and the liability, or just the physical damage, or even just the liability coverage.

Once they’re enrolled, whether a daily policy purchase or an annual enrollment, the client will have access to their personalized online dashboard, and that’s where they’re really gonna access all of their information. They can make changes from that dashboard. They can inquire from that dashboard they can access.

A lot of what we’ll get to here in a moment, the drive Better program from that dashboard, the process itself is very simple from start to finish to get coverage put into place. Specifically when you’re talking about the valuation of the vehicle, the client will determine that value. We don’t have any tool available to them to use.

What I found is that a lot of these drivers do have a, a good idea of what their vehicle is worth. And so when they’re determining that vehicle value, they would want to include any upgrades in that valuation. They put in just the one limit when they’re going through the quoting process, and when I’m discussing this with clients, I tend to [00:24:00] rely upon multiple resources, at least as where I’m directing them, if they’re concerned with how to determine that value.

So I refer them back to vehicle valuation sites. For instance, Kelly Blue Book, auction sites purchase price. If they’ve just purchased the vehicle, that’s a pretty good place to start, right? That’s the current market value of that vehicle. They’ve just paid for it, or a professional appraisal. Some of these folks have a regular appraisal done on their vehicles, so they know exactly what that’s worth for insurance purposes or otherwise.

So say I sign up for an event, not that this has ever happened before. The day you’re supposed to go to the track, it snows and you need to reschedule because your event coordinator canceled the event on you. Or you know, maybe something else happens. Who knows. Right? Is it easy to move these policies around or are they locked into the dates?

You know, is there kind of a range check type of system? How does that work? That’s another great question. It’s one that comes up, you know, more than we’d like it. To this year, for instance, has been a pretty rough start to the season with weather related issues. [00:25:00] To answer your question, we have a couple different options.

The first option, and probably the easiest for that person is that from their personalized dashboard, they can actually go out and change the date if it’s the day before or earlier of the event. They can go into their dashboard and change the effective date to a future date. Now, that’s the only thing that they’d be able to change.

They wouldn’t be able to change the vehicle that’s being insured. They wouldn’t be able to change the track that they’re going to or the number of days that they’re going to that track. Oh, but interesting. So you can’t move from, let’s say, summit Point to Watkins Glen. You have to go to another Summit Point event.

Correct. With that process. Now, that’s not the only process we have available. We do also have, if that event has been truthfully canceled, which does happen, there is the option to cancel the policy altogether. That person, to your point, might not be going to Summit Point again in the next 30, 60, 90 days.

So we can cancel that policy [00:26:00] if it’s the day before or earlier, we would just take their word and they say, Hey, I’m not going to that event, and we’ll cancel the policy if it’s the day of or after. We would just ask for some sort of proof from the track day event coordinator or host of the event to indicate that that person did not participate.

Specifically, or the event was canceled. So what if that organizer doesn’t have another date at that track? Let’s say maybe they only go to that track once a year. Can you transfer it from one provider to another? Say maybe it’s h o d this weekend and then it’s Chin that’s gonna run there the next time and, and somebody else, but they don’t go to the same place twice.

Yeah, I know some of our competitors do, but our policies are not tied to a specific event coordinator or host. That’s not even a question that we ask in our process because that’s not a field or a bit of information taken into account for the purchase of that policy. It does not matter. So the only thing to change in a date down on a single event policy.[00:27:00]

Because we don’t ask for the event coordinator or the host, they’re just changing the event date. They just change the event date easy enough. So what if there’s a track you really want to go to? You’re a loyal open track customer and it’s not on the list. How do new tracks get added? Are they being added all the time, or do you just have to skip it?

Is there some sort of maybe blanket policy that can still be acquired if the track isn’t on the list of, let’s say approved venues? Yeah, so I would say we run into this on occasion. And it’s usually not a situation where it’s been an existing track and we just don’t have it on our list. We have every track that anyone could go to on our list.

For the most part, what usually happens is that it’s a new track that has just opened. And we didn’t know about it. Like Ozarks right, is brand new. So Ozarks is, uh, a great example. Ozarks is a track that someone reached out to us, let us know that it was not on our list, and we had it added to our covered track list within a matter of two [00:28:00] hours.

And essentially that’s what’s gonna happen is we’re gonna do a bit of research to understand why was it not on our list. Usually it’s going to be a situation where that is a new track. It’s a new track that’s just been created or built, and it’s just opening. We’ll do our due diligence to look at the track, look at their website, make sure it’s a road course that’s, you know, within our standards, and we’ll get it added to our system.

And that literally takes a matter of, uh, just a couple hours. So the big thing is always cost. And obviously with any of these, it’s on a sliding scale because like we said, the minimum’s 30 grand. Then you got the 150,000 and above cars. How does one determine or estimate what they’re gonna be paying when they buy, let’s say that single day policy, and is there a discount for buying the whole year?

So what are we looking at Costwise? Yeah, so cost wise, you know, it’s all very technical and so I won’t really be able to speak to cost per se. That can all be obtained when going through the quoting process on our website. A couple things I’ll say. One is, uh, [00:29:00] we offer on our daily policy, programer, our single event coverage we offer.

One to four consecutive days of coverage and where we might differ from our competitors is that our pricing is different for one day versus two days versus three versus four. Now it’s not quite double for the two day triple, for the three, quadruple for the four, it actually steps up less than that, so it actually becomes very competitive for the annual program.

It is a true annual program, 365 days a year. And that pricing is based upon really only a couple factors on both the daily and the annual. That pricing is based upon the vehicle value the vehicle make, and if on the daily product, the track that they’re going. That’s really the only three rating factors that we have.

When speaking about the annual unlimited program, we built that program for the more passionate drivers, right? Like I said earlier, that’s what we started out as. We started out as an annual only product. And it wasn’t until just a few years ago that we even added the [00:30:00] daily product, the annual program, uh, being for those most passionate drivers.

And those that are getting out to the track more frequently, it’s going to include the 365 days of continuous coverage. There’s no need for them to worry about purchasing except, but once per year, there’s unlimited track days with that product. There’s no requirement to notify us when or where they’re going as long as they are going to one of our covered tracks.

They have coverage, they don’t need to let us know. This provides them the freedom to enjoy that passion for tracking without the hassle of having to worry about their insurance every moment that they’re out there. Additionally, one of the benefits when I’m talking about the 120 plus tracks that they have access to, I mentioned it briefly, but it’s kind of a big one.

We do offer coverage for Canadian tracks that is only available in our annual program. We do not offer our daily policies for the Canadian tracks. There’s unlimited cars, and what I’ll say there is it’s not unlimited cars at no additional [00:31:00] cost. There is an additional cost, but it’s very competitive, so we will always rate for the highest valued vehicle that they own, that they want to put on that policy.

The highest value’s always gonna have. The primary rate, any second or subsequent vehicles that are of equal or lesser value would be just $150 each in premium for the year. Now additionally there I’ll say, is the vehicles all must have common ownership. It’s not like I can put my car on the policy and then my buddy or my brother can have his vehicle on the policy as well.

We’d have to have our own separate annual policies if we are intending on having coverage. We already went through earlier, the unlimited drivers. There’s no cap to the number of drivers. There’s no additional cost for adding drivers. Instructors are covered automatically while in the process of instruction.

And then we also went through the reduced deductible from the daily product down to the annual product from 10% down to 5% except for the McLarens and the greater than $300,000 value. So many of us are used [00:32:00] to our everyday driver policies, whether we have Geico or Liberty Mutual or Allstate, you know, all the commercials, these farmers DA and all that kind of thing.

But they all have these good driver incentive programs. Say you get through the entire season, especially with the unlimited plan that you’ve bought into, and you don’t have any claims, you don’t have any faults, you don’t have any actions. Is there any sort of kickback there or promotion or anything for being a good track driver in regard to good driver discounts?

We get that question. It does make sense on on your regular auto insurance. We price our products competitively for everyone. In current state, we do not offer any good driver credits. We offer our pricing as competitively as possible for everyone. Ultimately, if someone has a loss with us, we’re not going to penalize them either.

On that back end, what will happen is there is a lifetime, two losses. Before someone would become ineligible for our products. We kind of covered what the common types of incidents and claims might [00:33:00] be, and we never really wanna be in that situation. We always try to avoid that. That’s why we’re there to be at an H P D E is to get better as drivers, to be safer, to predict when things are gonna happen and potentially go wrong, but you know, things go wrong.

And if you’re going to submit a claim, that’s the part where we all kind of grown and go, oh man, what? Now? You know, how long am I gonna be on hold? Listen. Tomac, you know, that kind of thing. So let’s talk about how the claims process works at Open Track. So while I cannot disclose any specific claims data, what I can say is that claims certainly do happen, and with recent supply chain issues that we’re dealing with across the country, And across the world, understaffed shops and the overall price of repairs, increasing claims are only getting more expensive.

So the main driver of claims that we see is a driver’s simply making an error and their inability or failure to properly recover from that error regarding the claims process. Then once they’ve had a loss, once something [00:34:00] does occur, We have gotten great feedback from our clients who have gone through that, and while we do not enjoy our clients having to go through a claim situation, we do strive to provide a quick response and claim resolution so that they can get back to doing what they love, get back on track, enjoy their passion for driving as quickly as we possibly can get them there.

Different than your standard driving policy, you’re not really interfacing with the claims adjuster and things like that, or are you They would be, yeah. So our claims process is pretty simple. From their dashboard. Again, they can put in the claims information, submit a claim that then goes through our internal.

Review process and goes to a claims representative with the company, and that claims representative will then reach out to them within a 24 to 48 hour time period. While that’s happening, the vehicle owner can take their vehicle to any body shop that they would like. We don’t have recommended body shops.

We don’t tell them where they can and can’t go. They can take it anywhere they like. So that is their freedom [00:35:00] to use someone that they are familiar with, someone that might be familiar with their vehicle or that type of vehicle, and we get great feedback on that as well. And they’re also allowed to fix or repair it themselves.

Right? Yes. I know you said you couldn’t tell us about any specific claims data, but maybe you could talk about trends. Are there higher horsepower cars that are. Getting more claims than others. Any fun things that you’ve seen in the patterns over the last couple of years with respect to track insurance?

Unfortunately, I’m not able to comment on that. I think there’s some logical assumptions that could be made as to, you know, where those claims lie. Like I said earlier, Ferrari’s, we had to make a decision to adjust our product because of the loss experience that we were seeing. But I can’t get into it any further than that, unfortunately.

Understood. So let’s switch gears a little bit. There’s something very unique about Open Track in that you guys offer a program called Drive Better. So why don’t you tell us what that’s all about? Drive Better was launched in early 2021 and it’s really focused [00:36:00] on what resources can we offer to our membership.

That will help them become a better driver and that’ll be things such as free driver coaching from our on staff, professional driving coach. That is a once per year virtual coaching session with our on staff driving coach, and it would begin with that driver signing up for the session and then sending in if they have it, any driving data.

That they have from a data system in their vehicle that can be reviewed during that virtual session. They’ll go through that with the driving coach and get some feedback. Those sessions last about an hour to an hour and a half. Talking about their data is not the entire portion of that conversation.

There is a lot of time during that conversation for them to ask additional questions, get a bit more specific on some of the feedback that they’re being given a and other things. That’s probably the highlight of Drive better. But additionally, they would have access to webinars, try to at least do a monthly webinar, [00:37:00] and those range in topics from where should I be breaking in the corner?

Or we had one recently was, Hey, I’m interested in racing. What do I need to know before jumping into that space? Even though we don’t ensure racing, we don’t ensure any kind of competitive event, our drivers may be pursuing that as the next step in their evolution of driving their vehicle. So there’s access to those webinars.

There’s also access to track guides and protips. We’ve created those types of materials for about 20 to 30. Of the primary tracks across the country, and so they would have access to that. It gets very specific in, you know, the corners on each track and some of the other things that you’d want to know when you get there.

And then we have, all of those webinars that we’ve created are also on demand, so they don’t even have to. Attend the live webinar if they don’t want to. Of course we want them to. We want them to be able to enjoy that because it’s a different feeling when you’re there in person, but those are also available on demand from their [00:38:00] dashboard.

All of the benefits we offer with the annual unlimited program support our motto of helping people to drive more. Through unlimited insurance and drive better with awesome coaching content. Yeah. And if it helps sweeten the pot for our listeners, I mean the pro coach that you have on staff right now, some people may recognize from Trans Am IMSA and S R O World Challenge, we’re talking about Andy Lee.

I mean, he’s got over a hundred professional race starts, 24 podium finishes. I mean, he’s been doing this for forever and he is a great guy. And why not take the opportunity to expand your open track experience and get to work with Andy Lee one-on-one? I mean, what an amazing experience. Talk about a key differentiator between you and the competitors, and actually that’s kind of a great segue.

As petrol heads, we’re all very mechanical in some form or another, maybe more so than others, but that’s okay. But a lot of us come to the table and we like our popular mechanics charts, right? So if we’re gonna stack rank all the competitors out there, you know, there’s open track and there’s Haggerty, [00:39:00] and there’s Lockton, and there’s Goal Wing and there’s rli.

But without getting into all the specifics of who’s who in the zoo, let’s talk about just those key differentiators that makes Open Track stand out from all these other names. Like you said, while there are other track day insurance products in the marketplace, we at Open Track, we believe our products provide the best value, specifically our annual unlimited membership, where we’ve included many of the benefits that I’ve gone through today and access to those resources at no additional charge.

We want to empower our members to accelerate their skills, to be more safe and to get faster at the track. You know, when I’m talking about the daily product, Not much differentiation can take place in the marketplace Where we differentiate ourself in that product. One place specifically is that our product is not requiring that the event be sanctioned.

So it can be used for that general track time where you’re going out and it’s probably gonna be tied to a private track club or something like that, where they’re just going [00:40:00] out and they need coverage and they don’t have a sanctioned event. Makes sense. But ultimately, with any of our products, We are always focused on the driver.

We want to provide a product that they want and that they can use to improve their skills. So, Brett, as we wrap things up here, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover on this episode? One thing I would say is this. So we are always looking for feedback. We thrive on feedback.

The company was built. On feedback. It was built on talking to clients, talking to people out at tracks, and so if anyone has any information, anything they want to talk through, reach out. I would love to have a conversation. I’ll give you my number here in a minute, but I am always available to have a conversation with someone because I love talking about our products.

I really do because I believe that we have something to offer that no one else does. I think our products are immeasurable in how they compete and what they can provide [00:41:00] to our client base. As far as promotions, I’ll hit it really high level. We rolled out in December of 2021, a referral bonus program. So without getting into specifics on dollar amounts and things like that, anyone who is a member and I, I’m including daily policy purchasers and annual policy purchasers.

Any one of those members is eligible to participate in that program. And so once they’ve enrolled into or purchased one of our products, they can go to their dashboard and they can find more information about that program. So Brett, if people want to continue this conversation with you one-on-one, what’s the best way to get ahold of you?

I would say two ways. One, I’m happy to take an email. My email address is Brett, b r e t t dot Larson, l a r s o n, at open track.com. Would love an email, but emails aren’t always the greatest for having these types of conversations, so would love a phone call. Would love someone to reach out to me to talk through why they’re excited about tracking.

What type of vehicle they’re driving, what have they [00:42:00] put into their vehicle? What has their experience been and any feedback they wanna offer on, Hey, here’s something where I see you guys could really improve. We’d love that as well. So my phone number, if anyone wants to reach out, is 6 1 2 6 0 1. One zero three four, and either email or phone.

Happy to have a conversation. Track day insurance coverage for both your car and your actions. That’s what Open Track is all about and what Brett has been talking about here throughout this episode. Because your track day rush should come from your speed and not from your financial risk. So if you’ve been apprehensive about getting on track with your beloved vehicle, hop over to www.open track.com and like Brett, Said, get a free quote in minutes and make sure you’re covered before ever turning your first lap.

And if that’s not enough, you can also check out open track on social media at Open Track Drive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. And by the way, they’ve also [00:43:00] got a YouTube channel at Open Track. And you can also find open track on LinkedIn. So they’re just about everywhere, everywhere you need to be as well.

So Brett, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Break Fix and telling us all about Open Track, its offerings, and hopefully getting some people up off their couch and onto the track where they want to be. I appreciate the invite. Eric was happy to be here and I heard a statistic the other day that said that the track day market, the track day enthusiast, is gonna grow exponentially for the next five years.

People are going to find out about this. When they’re finding out about it. We want them to be aware. There are products available out there, there’s people they can talk to. We want to make sure that they’re protected as adequately as possible so they can enjoy their time and keep that hobby growing.

Absolutely. Thanks Brett. We’ll talk soon. Take it easy. Bye now.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about [00:44:00] gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call our Texas at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief gt motorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon [00:45:00] today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Bonus Content

Learn More

Track More!

This episode is sponsored in part by Hooked On Driving (HOD). HOD partners with OpenTrack and offers you extended coverage quickly and easily, as you register for your events. Concentrate on driving, not the “What If’s” – Get yourself and your car on track, on America’s best racetracks, with Hooked On Driving.

So if you’ve been apprehensive about getting on track with your beloved vehicle, hop over to www.opentrack.com and get a free quote in minutes, and make sure you’re covered before ever turning your first lap! If that’s not enough, you can also check out OpenTrack on social @opentrackdrive on IG, FB and TW, and @opentrack on YT as well as linkedin.

OpenTrack’s policies are designed for non-competitive track time at over 120 approved venues across the U.S. and Canada. Whether you’re attending an HPDE or enjoying a private club day, you’re covered – as long as it’s not wheel-to-wheel racing. Key coverage highlights include:

Vehicle Value: Policies start at $30,000 declared value, with coverage up to $500,000.
Deductibles: 10% for single-event policies, 5% for annual plans (with exceptions for McLarens and vehicles over $300K).
Driver Flexibility: Add unlimited drivers over age 25 at no extra cost. Instructors are automatically covered during coaching sessions.
Track-Only Vehicles: Non-registered cars like the Rush SR or GT2 RS are eligible.
Exclusions: No coverage for Ferraris or open-wheel formula cars due to loss ratios.

What’s Covered—and What’s Not

OpenTrack covers collision-related damage on the track surface. That includes fire damage only if it results from a collision – not mechanical failure. Coverage does not extend to the paddock, transit, or trailer incidents, though other products may fill those gaps. Liability coverage is optional but robust, offering $1M or $2M limits. It includes:

Damage to track property (walls, barriers, fluid cleanup)
Bodily injury to third parties
Legal defense—even if you’re not at fault

However, it does not cover injuries to the driver or passengers inside the insured vehicle. That’s where personal health or life insurance comes into play.

OpenTrack uses a stated amount policy, paying the lesser of repair cost or declared value. At claim time, receipts and documentation for upgrades are crucial. Clients can negotiate to retain salvage vehicles, depending on the situation.

Flexibility and Ease of Use

Policies can be purchased in minutes at OpenTrack.com. Drivers get access to a personalized dashboard to manage coverage, change dates, and tap into the “Drive Better” program, which includes coaching and webinars.

If an event is canceled, policies can be rescheduled or refunded with proof. Coverage is tied to the track and date – not the event organizer – making it easy to switch hosts.

OpenTrack is responsive to new venues. If a track isn’t listed, a quick inquiry can get it added – Ozarks International Raceway was onboarded within hours of a customer request.

OpenTrack isn’t just insurance – it’s peace of mind for those who live for the thrill of the track. By putting drivers first and listening to the community, they’ve built a product that’s as passionate as the people it protects.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Lyn St. James: A Trailblazer’s Journey Through Motorsports

Tania M

September 6, 2022

Lyn St. James: A Trailblazer’s Journey Through Motorsports

In the latest episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we had the honor of sitting down with Lyn St. James – a pioneering racer whose story defies convention and inspires generations. From humble beginnings as a secretary and piano teacher to becoming Rookie of the Year at the Indianapolis 500, Lyn’s journey is a testament to grit, passion, and the power of persistence.

Lyn didn’t come from a racing family. She came from a racing culture. Growing up in the muscle car era of the 1960s, she was surrounded by GTOs, Mustangs, Chargers, and Cougars. Her first taste of motorsports came as a spectator at the Indy 500, tagging along with the guys from the local gas station.

But it was sports – specifically field hockey at her all-girls school – that taught her how to stand her ground. “It was the most fearful moment of my life,” she recalls. “But it taught me how to work, how to compete.” That early exposure to competition laid the groundwork for her racing career.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Lyn’s first race car was a Ford Pinto, which also served as her daily driver. After installing a roll bar, five-point harness, and fire extinguisher, she took it to SCCA driver’s school. Her first race? A disaster. She lost control and drove the Pinto straight into a lake at Palm Beach International Raceway. “I had to flat tow it home, dry it out, and drive it to work,” she laughs. “Seaweed would come out of the vents to remind me of failure.” But instead of quitting, Lyn doubled down. Her husband told her, “Race car drivers aren’t born. It’s a trained skill.” That mantra fueled her determination.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode highlights the incredible journey of Lyn St. James in the world of motorsports. From her humble beginnings as a secretary and piano teacher to racing a Ford Pinto and eventually making a name for herself in prestigious races like the 24 Hours of Sebring and the Indy 500, where she earned the Rookie of the Year title. The discussion delves into her early influences, struggles with sexism, and the importance of persistence and passion. Lyn also shares insights about her transition from amateur to professional racing, mentoring young drivers, and her continuous efforts to promote and support women in motorsports, including her recent initiative with Women in Motorsports North America. The podcast reflects on her legacy and ongoing influence in the racing world.

Let’s talk about how you got into racing? What attracted you to it? Did you come from a racing family? What was your motivation?
Rumor has it, you drove your Pinto it into a lake?
The progression to Trans-AM – this era in racing was some of the best there was. 53 SCCA Trans-AM races with six wins, 62 IMSA GT races, with 17 top-5 and 37 top-10 finishes.
In 1989 (and 1991) you went to LeMans – describe what that was like.
The Road to Indy
- How did you go from TransAm/IMSA to Indy?
- You Finished 11th in the world’s most iconic race — and took home Rookie of the Year honors against a rookie class that featured Paul Tracy and Jimmy Vassar. Talk about the experience.
- Notably, the first woman to ever win the Rookie title.
- You were the first woman to go over 200 mph (227.32 to be exact) Let’s repeat that. First women to reach over 200 mph, in any car. – full stop. What was that like?
After Indy – what came next?
- Women in the Winner’s Circle Foundation
- Lyn has written a few books, and is now a motivational speaker – what are some of the topics?
- Women in Motorsports North America

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: For many of us, our stories begin with amateur racing in SCCA. And our guest is no exception. Full time secretary and piano teacher by day. By the age of 26, she moonlighted in racing behind the wheel of a Ford Pinto, which doubled as her daily driver quickly moving up the ranks.

She fought alongside names like Haywood, Schook, and Ribs in the TransAm and IMSA series. She would take home titles and races like the 24 hours of Sebring, 24 hours of Rolex, and the 24 hours of the Nuber ring in 1992. [00:01:00] The mold wasn’t just broken. It was shattered, and at the age of 45, proving that neither gender nor age matter in motorsports, she entered the Indianapolis 500, earning the title of Rookie of the Year.

And tonight, we are proud to welcome the one and only Lyn St. James to Break Fix.

Lyn St. James: Well, thank you very much. Nice intro. Nice intro. I was like, my, I wonder who that is.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, thank you. And co hosting with me tonight is Tanya from our drive thru series. So we’re going to be getting down to some really interesting questions and diving into your background.

So like all good Break Fix episodes, let’s start with an origin story. How did you go from being a secretary and a piano teacher to racing? What drew you to that? Did you come from a racing family? What was your motivation?

Lyn St. James: I mean, no, I was just a race fan. I mean, I grew up in the sixties and the muscle car era.

And so everybody around my age, we’re all are into cars, you know, I [00:02:00] mean, that was kind of the GTOs and the Mustangs and the Chargers and Cougars. I mean, it was just the muscle cars. That was the big deal. And so, and I went to the Indy 500 as a spectator. With the guys from the gas station, but I kind of lived, I don’t want to call it a double life, but I mean, I went to a girl’s school.

I got sports because of that. This was pre title 9 and just for educational purposes. So you all know that this year is the 50th anniversary of the passing of title 9, which was actual law went into place that if you receive any federal funding. which all schools received some type of federal funding that you could not discriminate.

And then it was added that you couldn’t discriminate for sports. And so that enabled girls to be able to have sports. And again, this is the 50th anniversary. So I went to high school prior to that, but because I went to a girl’s school, I got sports and I’m absolutely convinced not just because I got sports, but because the most fearful moment of my life was when I was the first time on a field hockey team.

And I didn’t even know what field hockey was. And I’m like standing there holding the stick and trying to [00:03:00] figure out what the heck I’m supposed to do. And then all of a sudden, you know, I see these kids running after me or towards me. And I realized, you know, I got to stand my ground and I got to work.

And this was what sports was all about. And I think that served me very well throughout my entire development, you know, seventh or 12th grade that then enabled me many years later to get behind the wheel of a Ford Pinto. But anyway, muscle car era went to Indy, did some drag racing with my buddies. It wasn’t the right thing to do, particularly for a young female.

I mean, My mom sent me to girl’s school to become educated and self sufficient and independent, not to be out driving race cars. But I got married. I helped my husband build a business. We went to the 24 hours of Daytona together. I was, yes, the secretary and the bookkeeper. And you know, when you’re the co owner of a business, you do whatever it takes.

She’s a bottle washer

Crew Chief Eric: too, right? Yeah.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. You know, whatever. I mean, you sweep the floors, you, you know, do whatever, wash the windows. And so that’s what we were doing is we built the business. We went to the races in Florida, cause that’s where I was living then. [00:04:00] And I saw Daytona, the 24 hours of Daytona.

I saw the 12 hours of Sebring. To me, it was like all of a sudden I saw real people drive race cars and not super humans like at the Indianapolis 500. And so we became a members of sports car club of America. And found out that you had to go to driver’s school to get your competition license. Went out and bought a Ford Pinto, put a roll bar in it, a five point seat belt, a five pound fire extinguisher, which was required for all race cars and not just Pintos, if you know the story of the Pinto.

And it was my street car that I drove back and forth to work and then I went to driver’s school and it was my competition car in the beginning. The piano teacher thing, people pick up on that sometimes. That only lasted for six weeks and I got fired. And it’s a good thing to learn what you’re not good at.

That was what I was not good at was teaching piano. So I’m not a good teacher actually at anything because I’m very intense. You have to have a lot of patience as a teacher and I’m not that type of person, but anyway, kind of evolved over [00:05:00] time. You know, I didn’t come from the kind of family, but I came from a culture.

That made it acceptable and made it popular at the time that it was popular. So even though there weren’t a lot of females doing it, I was hanging out with the guys and it just, it was okay. You know, it was just okay to do it. And they let me behind the wheel and I was good. I was a good driver. I like to go fast.

Crew Chief Eric: If you read all the trade magazines and interviews you’ve done over the years, and you mentioned it yourself, the Pinto, right? It’s always listed there, but a little birdie told me that you actually drove that Pinto into a lake.

Lyn St. James: Yes, that’s true. My very first race after driver’s school, you know, they, they had good driver’s school and then usually the second school, there’s actually a regional race that same weekend.

So I got to enter that race. And of course I had a big X on my car. Cause as a rookie, you have to put an X next to your car number so that everybody knows to stay away from you. I lost control of the car as the car was passing me. You know, this was in South Florida. It was at. Palm beach international raceway, which just closed [00:06:00] literally.

They finally officially announced that the track is closed and they’re going to turn it into, I guess, to some housing development or something. But that was where I first started racing. And there was a lot of water down there. Turn two, three, and four went around what we thought was a pond. And I found out actually it’s pretty deep.

And so the car totally submerged. And it was my street car. So I had to flat tow at home, dry it out and, you know, drive it to work. Ran just

Executive Producer Tania: fine.

Lyn St. James: Well, it was not that easy. We had to really clean it out. I remember putting the motor for the windshield washers and the windshield wipers in the oven, and I think 150 degrees to get it to dry out and, you know, but it, yeah, it, it ran, I mean, uh, you know, we.

took spark plugs out and water came out, but you know, it was nasty. It was nasty though, because I ordered the car without air conditioning and I lived in South Florida. And so I would turn the fan on, try to get a little bit of air movement when I would be driving this thing to work and seaweed would come out of the vents, you know, to remind me of failure.

And you learn a lot more from [00:07:00] failure than you do from success. And in racing. You will have a lot more failure than you will have success. And it tests your dictativeness. It tests your fortitude of how bad do you really want to do this? And that was, to be honest, I could have easily given up after that first race because I was so embarrassed.

And I realized maybe this isn’t what I was meant to do. Maybe I’m not as good at this as. I think I am, you know, my husband at the time and is a really good guy. And he said, Lenny said, race car drivers aren’t born. It’s a trained skill. And he said, it’s just how hard are you willing to work? So that kind of was a good way for me to start to realize that I better know how badly I really want to do this because it’s going to be a lot of work, not all fun and games.

It’s not just, Oh, get a race suit and get a helmet, get all your gear and then get your car ready. And you get on the track. I mean, that’s just. There’s so much more to it.

Crew Chief Eric: Some of our previous guests, who you’re also friends with, happen to mention some other little tidbits about your past. So, you know, you’ve always really been associated with [00:08:00] Ford in a lot of ways.

When you look over your history and your driver’s resume, from the Pinto to the Mustang, to other cars and whatnot. And Dean Case mentioned making you part of the Ford Motorsports Enthusiast Group that he was a part of and helped start at Ford Motor Company.

Lyn St. James: Dean Case has a better memory than most of us.

You know, he remembers stuff that I look at. Look at him sometimes. I’m like, what? And he’s usually right. So unfortunately you don’t debate with Dean. You just sort of, sometimes you have to remember that he remembers stuff you don’t remember. When I got Ford as a sponsor, and I mean, I’m going to just fast forward a bit.

That was not Ford’s idea. I worked hard for three years, bugging the hell out of them. I’m absolutely convinced they hired me because they said that’s the only way we’re going to get control of this gal is because she’s going to keep bugging us unless we do. And then I told them the Pinto story. And to be honest, you know, they were not proud of that car.

They were like, could you leave that out of your story? I said, Hey, I’m telling you it’s there, you know, and it’s documented. And then not only that, it gets a lot of laughs. So, you know, it’s kind of like, it’s a great conversation piece. So there was no connection, the [00:09:00] Pinto to Ford, other than it’s the truth, you know, and that’s it, but they were not happy about that when I got forward as a sponsor in 1981, after literally three years of bugging him and they had announced special vehicle operations.

So they were really just getting back into racing after being out of it for the seventies. They were still formulating how they were going to do this. And so somewhere along the way, with the help of Dean created some Ford enthusiast program that they would ask me to make appearances and go to things, which at the time I’m like.

What? I gotta do what? All I wanted to do is drive the race car. I learned that they had other objectives that I needed to learn about and I needed to support. And I use that a lot with my training with young drivers or any driver trying to get sponsors. I say it’s not about what you want. It’s not about what you need.

You have to figure out how to satisfy them. What do they need that you can do while, by the way, you need their sponsorship so you can go racing. So it was a really [00:10:00] great learning experience for me to fulfill what Ford’s. You know, objectives were with why they were sponsoring me. And also along the way, I learned so much about how cars get built and used to go to the test track.

And I got to test drive a lot of cars. I used to, I worked with their engineers. I went to the design center. I went to factories. I got to see how car, you know, I mean, the whole thing was amazing and a huge learning experience about how the industry really works.

Crew Chief Eric: So we’re going to close the loop on this Pinto story because it does bring us into the modern times as well.

And Jim Jordan, who was also on the show, mentioned that he shared a Pinto with you in a 24 hour race where there were 25 different drivers. He says, we raced together, but not together, but using the same car.

Lyn St. James: Well, it wasn’t at a Pinto, it was at a Mazda. It was with Mazda. Yes. And so it was the 25 hours of Thunder Hill and it was so much fun.

I mean, I was all excited. I’m doing another endurance race. And then I, I show up and, and I’m like, so when’s my stint? And they’re like, well, [00:11:00] that’s not until tomorrow. Like what? And then I put my suit on and I did my stint. And then I’m like, what’s my next shift? No, you only get one. Like you’re kidding. So it was a fun, but weird experience to have 25 drivers.

And one race car in one race, you know, everybody only gets one stint. It’s like you just get warmed up, you know,

Crew Chief Eric: Lyn, let’s go back to the timeline here a little bit. You moved away from, let’s say, amateur racing SCCA up into trans and more into the program side of the world. How did that transition occur?

And just to remind our listeners, this was the. Era in racing where there was some of the best there was, you know, some of those names that we listed in the intro is just a very, very short list of very famous people in that list to include yourself. Let me just add some stats to this to level set.

Everybody does this and you had 53 SCCA Trans Am races, 6 wins, 62 IMSA GT races in this time period, 17 top 5 and 37 [00:12:00] top 10 finishes. Just to kind of round out that era. How did you get there and what was it like?

Lyn St. James: I had been racing SCCA, my husband had a Corvette, so I got to run a Corvette a couple times in IMSA in the Camel GT series.

So I got to drive a high horsepower big car. In 1981, actually before that, the Kelly company, Kelly Services, which used to be called Kelly Girl, they sponsored a series in IMSA. called the Kelly American Challenge. That’s when I showed up on the scene in the IMSA series. I was actually quite successful that first season.

Then I kind of scrounged around getting rides in various endurance races. Then I got Ford as a sponsor in 1981 in the Kelly American Challenge series. And Ford chose to start out with a Mercury Capri. That first year that that was the first one, which is essentially a Mustang, but with a Capri body on it, I did that for two seasons.

This is when I learned that Ford was going to decide where I was going to race. Not [00:13:00] me. And then that’s when they said, okay, we’re going to put you with Tom Gloy and you’re going to run in the, which was at the time SCCA Trans Am series. That was my first season in Trans Am. A completely different experience, completely competitive, meaning the top drivers, one hour races, no pit stops.

It’s not like endurance racing. I mean, an SCCA, they were all 30 minute races, very short, no refueling. I mean, no pit stops. You just, you know, go to your thing. Then you get into IMSA and now you’re running these endurance races where there’s multiple drivers, longer stints. You had to learn how to make pit stops, refuel.

I mean, the whole thing, which was great experience. And the other thing is that I really learned how to qualify because there they had very short qualifying sessions where in endurance racing they have, you have to have a long enough session that all three drivers or all four drivers get to actually get a qualifying time.

There was just a lot of learning to do. And that’s essentially every season after that, whether it was Trans Am or in the IMSA Camel GT series, Ford decided what team I was going to [00:14:00] be on, what series I was going to race. I was blessed. These were all one year contracts. I was never on a long term contract.

So I was always fearful in negotiating that next contract and then trying to figure out where the heck I was going to race. But loving the 24 hours of Daytona and the 12 hours of Seabrook, I was always hoping that I would get to at least be in those two races because I really do love endurance racing.

And of course, because I lived in Florida and I went to the IMSA races, I saw drivers like Hurley Haywood and Peter Gregg and Hans Stuck and Jim Busby, Al Holbert, and you know, all of these world class drivers. And I mean, the dream was one day to be on the racetrack at the same time with those drivers.

But when I wasn’t on the racetrack, I was watching them because that’s how I would learn. I would watch their lap times. I would go and observe in their paddock area, how they handled and managed their team and how they set their garage up. How do you learn all this stuff? I even read a lot of books about it.

But you will learn most by watching and observing. It’s like going [00:15:00] to class, you know, you, you get to go to the paddock and watch how the pros do it. And not just any pro, but how the best, you know, I always watch to see who was the best and that’s who I would pay attention to that way they do things.

Peter Gregg, invariably, every time there was a practice session or a qualifying session, his car was the first in line to go out. I mean, he was ready. That makes a statement. If you’re still trying to get your car together when qualifying starts, which you see a lot of people that way, I mean, they’re still thrashing, trying to get their car on the pit lane to even go out or get them in their own pit.

Peter was always First car in line, it’s just something that I remembered, you know, so you always got to be ready

Crew Chief Eric: amongst all the drivers in the paddock, who would you say were your closest friends at that time? And maybe who are your biggest rivals?

Lyn St. James: Well, they were all rivals. One of the ones that was, I felt like we were buddies with Doc Bundy, which of course, then a few years later, he did a very bad thing at Riverside and caused a horrible crash.

I got along with everybody. I [00:16:00] got along with just about everybody. Wally Dullenbeck Jr. We had a good time together. You know, I mean, he was a kid. I was old enough to be their mothers in some cases. I mean, seriously, I was definitely a little aged out compared to them, but I got along with most of them. I mean, seriously, Scott Pruitt was great.

Tom Gloy and I, you know, but we became much more friendly when we were no longer teammates, or we were no longer competitors at the same time.

Crew Chief Eric: When you were going through this, were you being coached or were you learning by the seat of your pants, by lead follow or driving by feel? This is still the era where data wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it is today for drivers.

Lyn St. James: We had no data except for our butts and our fingers, you know, on the steering wheel and our brains. We didn’t have coaches back then. We didn’t have driver coaches like they do now. So, and we didn’t have spotters. You were on your own out there. I literally would pick the brains of drivers as much as I could, my competitors and my teammates.

And I can tell you one person that was hugely, hugely [00:17:00] impactful on me was Bob Riley. Bob was a car builder, an engineer, he’s a chassis expert, he was hired by Ford on occasion, you know, sometimes he was working for Chevy and sometimes he was working for Ford, but if he was at the track, I would find him and pick his brain and start talking about.

The, what the car was doing and what I was feeling. And then sure enough, I’d find out that he was out on the track, watching corners. He wouldn’t tell me that automatically. I would eventually, you know, we’d come out in our conversation, but he taught me a lot by asking me the right kind of questions about what I was feeling in the car, and I have to learn how to communicate.

So that an engineer in this case, Bob Riley and any engineer could understand what I was talking about, but it was learn as you go. You know, I was like a sponge. I was absorbing information like crazy. I mean, I remember one time I saw a picture. Actually, I came across just a little snapshot. Jim Busby was somebody that I just, I was like, Oh my God, the guy is so good.

And I was on pit lane in Pocono and I was really frustrated. The car is a piece of junk and I was [00:18:00] trying to figure out what was wrong and you know, yada, yada. And so I saw Jim and I walked up to him and I said, Jim, hi, I’m Lyn St. James, which means nothing to him. But anyway, I said, if you’ve got a couple of minutes, he goes, yeah, what do you need?

And I said, can we just walk on pit lane, walk down pit lane? And will you point out features? Of every race car that we’re going to walk past and tell me why that car is good or why it’s not good just by visually looking at it and I learned more in that 10 minute walk that I learned in the whole season because of learning about where the center of gravity was, where the driver’s seat was, where the wheelbase was, look at the aerodynamics, look at the ride heights.

It was like a walking encyclopedia experience.

Executive Producer Tania: You were doing competition, so it’s race day. What are you doing in between race day to practice? Were you doing any and every track event that you could possibly find? Or were you the seat of your pants every time and you’re absorbing and you’re learning, you’re trying new things race day?

Lyn St. James: We had no simulators back then either, dear. So we’d get track maps, wonderful [00:19:00] track maps. I would always try to get in a day early. You know, usually it was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday schedule. I would make sure that I got there on Thursday and I would walk the track or I would beg whoever was the track owner or the track promoter or the track maintenance person, can I take my rental car around?

I promise I’ll go really slow. I tried to at least do that on the new tracks that I’d never been to. And that was in the beginning in those early eighties, you know, I hadn’t been to any of them. I get previous years programs because a lot of times you would have a race program and there would be a driver like, you know, Jim Busby or Derrick Bell, who would describe the track and so I’d read their track descriptions to try to learn the track.

It was definitely I mean, you had practice qualifying. I mean, you had sessions, right? But hopefully by race day, you had it pretty well figured out. You were on your own. You were on your own. All of the infrastructure, which I, I admire. I mean, I used to get frustrated because I’m like, as I got to know other athletes, you know, I, I’d meet other tennis players and [00:20:00] swimmers and golfers.

They all had coaches. They all had trainers. We didn’t have any of that stuff. I’m like, that’s one of the reasons why I started my driver development program in 1994, is it’s like every race car drivers on their own. Today the world is different, but back then, even in the nineties, it wasn’t. And so I said, well, you know, you have to get better.

You have to learn new things. You have to get new information,

Executive Producer Tania: and you need that seat time. And using your example, if you got access to a swimming pool, you can go every day and practice for hours. But it’s really hard to have a racetrack in your backyard.

Lyn St. James: You used to drive me crazy because of that. You know, I mean, I played tennis, you know, locally just for fun, but it was still competitively and, you know, you go out and drill and practice and get ready for a tournament and in racing, I mean, it was just.

You know, you prayed that you might get a test day the day before the race weekend, you know, because obviously track conditions change, weather changes, you know, so if you go at the different time of the year, it doesn’t help you much usually, but it’s a very frustrating sport even today because the cost, I mean, even though [00:21:00] simulators help tremendously, if you could get into them and.

Know how to work them, but no, that’s true. Yeah. I mean, seriously, you’re right, Tanya. I mean, it’s a very difficult sport, which is what I also tell up and coming racers that maybe race go karts or quarter midgets or legends cars or mini sprints or all the different. And now they have these great ideas about what they want to do.

It’s tough. It’s really, really tough. You know, the, the gender thing is. First of all, it’s the one thing you aren’t going to, I shouldn’t say that, but that you aren’t going to change. And so you have to focus on the things you can change. And if you don’t have the funding or you don’t have the capability, if you have a full time job and you don’t have the chance to go, even if you had the money, you can’t go test, you know, you can’t go do a test day.

And these track days and all those wonderful things that are available now, they just, they’re just, it’s just hard. It’s just a hard sport, but it’s so rewarding. That’s why when you get a good lap, Just a good fricking lap. You are like [00:22:00] elated, you know, and you know, you put a bunch of laps together or you get a good qualifying and then you actually get it about the time you’re about ready to give up.

You get a good race result and you’re back in again. You got hooked again. They

Crew Chief Eric: often draw that parallel with. Playing golf, you know, 17 terrible holes. And then you have that one good one. That’s what keeps you coming back.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. We’re going to circle back on a couple of things you just hit on there, but obviously you’ve hit lots of different tracks.

What is your favorite or least favorite, or is there a track you haven’t been able to go to that you wish you will one day?

Lyn St. James: Hmm. That’s an interesting question, actually. The last part there, because I don’t, I mean, I’ve been to Austin, but I haven’t been on the track to race it, even though I got a hot lap around it with in one of the Skip Barber cars.

And I’m like, where the hell am I? I mean, it was like, the corners are also similar, you know, visually. Been on that track. Have you? Yeah. And I mean, I was like, God, I think I’d have a hard time just figuring out where I am, you know? Well, my favorite road course is Watkins Glen. I mean, that is completely, and they’re [00:23:00] running it.

You know, and I’m so soon, I just love that track, the flow. And of course this was before they put the chicane in and it’s still the flow of that track, the rhythm, just love it. I absolutely love it. The hardest track that I never felt, right. I never, ever felt like I got the right lap. Not one damn good lap was a serious point.

You know, Sonoma. It’s just so hard. The off camera, the elevations of blind corners that, you know, it just about the time you think you got one corner, right, you’re into that next corner. And then you’re like. Screwed up. I never felt right there. Other than that, I mean, I got to run Nürburgring. I got to run, you know, Le Mans.

Yeah, I have gotten some really, really great, you know, great racetracks that I’ve been able to be at and Daytona. So anyway, I don’t really have one out there that I’ve got. Oh God, I wish. I could still do that. I mean, the only thing I have left that I, that I really want to do, but I don’t know if it’s going to be in the cards is to set a record of Bonneville.

I got to run Bonneville once in 2017 and it is, it is not easy. It’s like, Oh, what’s the big deal? It’s just going straight now. It’s rougher than, I mean, [00:24:00] it’s like really, really rough and rugged. I mean, you’re bouncing around. And so the car is bouncing around and your eyes are very hard to visually have a perspective of where you are.

And the bouncing is it’s brutal. It’s actually brutal.

Crew Chief Eric: So I want to stitch together a couple of things before we transition again through the chronology here. And it has to do with, it has to do with Watkins Glen as a matter of fact. And as I look back on this time with very fondly, because it was in my formative years between IMSA Trans Am and Group B, that’s where I fell in love with motor racing, right?

And they’re still my top two things. And some of those drivers transitioned between the two in that era. So my question is this. I remember Hans Stuck in the rain in the Audi’s at Watkins Glen. We look back on that and you see the old videos and this and that, and you know, they talk about the unfair advantage and you put it in today’s perspective, it’s probably on par with the drama drive to survive and all these wonderful shows that people watch.

Was it really like that when you guys were competing against the Audi’s? [00:25:00] Was everybody so upset about it? Was it really that earth shattering?

Lyn St. James: It’s awful. You would be hanging under your car in a corner. And then they just go driving by, you know, cause you got that all wheel drive and it would be like, you would just cuss the hell out of everything.

I mean, I could have killed Hurley and stuck, you know, because it was like, Oh, I can remember metal lands particularly because you know, when you get in these temporary circuits and, and so it was maddening, it was totally, it was, it was brutal and maddening because it was an unfair advantage. I mean, it completely, I mean, there’s turbos and there’s normally aspirated that are racing against each other.

They have different power bands. But you know that all eventually it evens out and there are certain tracks that are handling tracks, certain tracks that are more high speed tracks if you have a handling car versus, you know, one versus the other. But it eventually evens out when they had that all-wheel drive bullshit.

I mean, that was like, that was never gonna even out. There’s no balance

Crew Chief Eric: of performance there, right?

Lyn St. James: No. Oh, of course now, yeah. I mean there’s the, that, that’s a whole different thing the way the rules are. I mean, God, [00:26:00] I’d hate to have to run a team right now because every week they change the b o P, you know, Yeah, back then you were stuck, you know, you were stuck with what you got, the way the roles were.

They didn’t change the roles that much throughout the year. And if they did, it was usually to your disadvantage. But that whole Audi all wheel drive thing was, it makes me just live in thinking about it again, because. We struggled so hard. God, it was awful

Crew Chief Eric: to add a little levity to that. I will never forget the summit point race.

It was just before they got banned. And I believe Hans was pretty upset because people started blocking. They put their elbows out. They’re like, we’re tired of this. So he starts passing people in the grass.

Lyn St. James: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: come on, man.

Lyn St. James: Well, you know, it’s like I got to race. This is not maybe a good analogy, but it makes me think of it.

We just said that because I got to drive for the first time and race a prewar. You know, what is this like 1912 national? And I remember learning. You know, how to do the clutch. And I mean, we were driving and it was at Sears point or, you know, Sonoma. So we’re driving [00:27:00] on the hill there. Try it. I’m trying to learn to drive this thing, you know, and I just remember the guy that owns it, Brian Blaine said, he said, don’t worry about it.

If you go off course though, he said, don’t try to correct and come back on. He said, just ride it out. It’s nothing more than a tractor. So, you know, It’s like if you go off course and one of those all wheel drive, that’s, you know, it doesn’t really matter because it’s really just, it’ll drive on, it’ll, those wheels will get traction anywhere, you know, even if it’s off of the grass,

Executive Producer Tania: just stay out a little longer, do some landscaping for us.

Lyn St. James: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. But, uh, jumping back into the chronology. Uh, so in 1991, fast forward a little bit. So you went to the mall,

Lyn St. James: but see, I went to Lamont 89 and that was. At that time of my career, that was the highlight of my career. I mean, to get to go to Le Mans and it was, I didn’t know that they were going to completely rebuild it right after that.

So in other words, where they put a chicane on the Mulsanne straight and they built these new garages and they built this new structure and, you know, everything changed in 91. But at 89, [00:28:00] I got to run with Gordon Spice and Ray Bellum in a Cosworth Spice chassis. And it was the old track and the old pits.

And, you know, I felt like I was in the movie, you know, Le Mans, because it was just the way it was in the movie. We ran 16 hours. I got to get a lot of seat time. It was perfection other than we didn’t finish. And I loved it. I mean, I loved it. The 91 was pretty awful to be honest. It’s not one that I, I, I don’t like to even talk about it because it was just

Executive Producer Tania: this time it was an all female team.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And I mean, there was nothing wrong with the all field. Desiree was fabulous by the way. I think she’s one of the most talented male or female race car drivers that I’ve ever met, but that was what Desiree and Kathy Mueller. But it was the, the car was a piece of shit, clearly. I mean, and the team was lost.

It was a Japanese team. They were clueless. The car was not set up at all. It was not prepared to run a race period, yet alone the 24 hours of Le Mans. You know, the two gals, I mean, we were, we were great, but the car was just.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, because I saw that ended in a very short number of [00:29:00] laps.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn’t even get suited up.

I wasn’t gonna, I mean, it was not worth it. But Des was absolutely relentless. She was convinced she was going to get that car to work. I mean, the brake pedal fell off. I didn’t lose the brakes. The brake pedal fell off going down after the at the, at the end of the Mulsanne straight. Oh, God, it’s just makes me

Executive Producer Tania: so they wouldn’t have been, you know, the first ones out on a qualifying session in a different race.

Lyn St. James: I mean, it makes my blood boil just thinking about it, you know, it really does. So anyway, but I was glad to go back because it made me appreciate 89 even more, you know, but it was very pristine and clinical and kind of, I don’t know, it was very much different.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you look forward to next year’s 100th anniversary of Le Mans?

Lyn St. James: Well, I do. I look forward to celebrating it this year because we’re going to celebrate it at Monterey Historics and we’re going to celebrate it at the Pebble Beach Concourse. I’m excited to be. There to help celebrate, you know, to be part of the celebration in any way, shape or form, and [00:30:00] to see all the cars.

I wish my spice could be there, but it’s not. Yeah. The next year being the hundredth anniversary is very, very exciting. I remember the hundredth anniversary of the Indianapolis 500, and that was a huge deal, you know, and they actually had, I think three or four. They had the hundredth anniversary of the building of the track in 2019.

Then they had the hundredth anniversary of the first running of the 500. And then they had the hundredth running because of obviously those years that we had a number of different hundredth anniversaries and Indies. And I think Lamar will have another one too, because this was their 90th running, I believe.

So another 10 years, there’ll be another hundredth. So it’s kind of cool to be a part of something or to be around when something is being celebrated.

Crew Chief Eric: I think that’s a perfect segue into our next set of questions because you are part of the Indy 500 history. You’re part of those hundred years. So how do you go from Trans Am and IMSA into Indy?

What inspired you to go there? There’s a lot of congratulations around what happened, [00:31:00] but I haven’t seen too much of What was the road to get there? What got you there? Did you look to somebody like Janet Guthrie, who was the previous woman to run the 500 as your inspiration, or was it something else that drove you to Indy?

Lyn St. James: No, I mean, I, I remember watching Janet, but you know, I was racing in, in SCCA back then. I hope so. And I just remember I was real happy doing what I was doing and she didn’t look like she was having a really good time to be honest. And they didn’t want her there. I mean, there was the coverage I saw. I mean, I’m having a great time, you know, I got a lot of friends.

I look forward to seeing my friends when I go to the races, you know, and, and that was not her experience at Indy. So that was not a, That didn’t leave a really good, you know, positive image in my mind, you know, after doing Daytona and winning at the 24 hours and winning at Sebring. And then I started doing the TV coverage at IndyCar because I was done Trans Am.

And we were the same weekend. Often I was actually working for ESPN and ABC and doing that. And I, so I got to hang out a lot with the IndyCar teams and the cars. I became just [00:32:00] mesmerized with those cars. I mean, when you get up close, it’s one thing to watch them, you know, when they’re going 190, 200 plus miles an hour going by.

But when you’re in the pits where they make pit stops, you know, I was a pit reporter. And when you’re in the garage and you’re around them, you know, the sophistication level back, back in the eighties. And I thought, you know, I just want to drive an Indy car. I mean, I’m a race car driver, prototypes and the cars that I’m racing are pretty cool.

But, you know, this is a lot cooler. And so I just want to drive an Indy car. I mean, seriously, that was it

Executive Producer Tania: want to go fast.

Lyn St. James: I want to drive an Indy car. I want to know what it’s like to drive what I’m going to call a perfect race car. And so I spent probably two years talking to team owners. Can I just, when you guys are testing sometime, you know, it doesn’t work that way.

Leave the keys in it. Just turn around. Exactly. It doesn’t work that way. And so, you know, doing a test, they like big money to do that, you know, I mean, for a [00:33:00] driver to do an IndyCar test. is expensive. So it was really like, I don’t know what the hell I was thinking, but I really kept. And so finally I ended up talking to Dick Simon.

I talked to him a lot. I would talk to him almost every race, you know, and they may, Hey Dick. And, you know, this is a fairly long story, but it’s the truth. I was doing TV coverage at Tamiyami, which was the last race of the season. And it was actually the race where Al senior beat Al junior to win. You know, the championship was a very big deal.

I also owned an auto parts. Shock absorber business. And I remember Sunday night getting back to my office down in South Florida and the phone rang and it was Dick. He said, Hey kid, you said you wanted to drive an IndyCar be at Memphis tomorrow. And that was about the end of that conversation. I’m like, what, what, what, what, what?

I didn’t even know there was a racetrack in Memphis. I’ll see you tomorrow. He hangs up. I get an airplane ticket. I go to Memphis. I rent a car. I find this damn racetrack that I didn’t know existed, which is basically it’s a drag strip with a little return route and the IndyCars test there sometimes. He was on the way back to the shop at [00:34:00] Indy.

He had a rookie test scheduled, but he also had Rolls cars and other cars on the trailer that he’d brought into Miami. And he also, I found out later, he had miles left on his Cosworth because you had to. Send them back to Cosworth to get rebuilt after so many miles. Well, he had miles left on that engine, so it wasn’t going to cost him anything.

He gave me that chance. And so I showed up, he’s like, hi, how you doing? And then I had my race suit and everything, but we weren’t going to pour a seat or anything, so now we’re trying to get me fitted in the car. You know, we’re using rags and jackets and, you know, anything we could get a hold of to try to get me fitted in the car, the kid working on the car could have had that day off.

If I hadn’t been there as the test, he was in charge of that car, but that car wasn’t supposed to do anything except Dick said he, he let me have some laps. So, while we’re getting fitted in the car, I’m thinking to myself, you know, this is such a cool opportunity, but I could get the feeling that this guy was like, not necessarily excited about having to work that day, but then he says to me, Hey, he [00:35:00] said, were you ever at Snedderton?

I was at Snedderton. One day, about four years prior, when I tested the Argo GTP car, and I went, yeah, yeah. He said, I was there that day. He said, you ran good. So magic, in my opinion, this kid knew me, knew that I was at least a decent race car driver, maybe a good race car driver. And so he was in the game that day.

He could have made my life miserable, but instead he worked with me. All day. And Dick told him, he said, put 10 gallons of fuel in, let her run 10 laps and then bring her in and just keep doing that. And then Dick left, he had meetings or something and he left. I, I started out, I’m sure horrible, but I mean, I got to run almost the whole day.

I would do 10 laps and I would come in and he’d put fuel in, I’d go back out and do 10 laps. ’cause that way it didn’t change the weight of the car. In other words, the car was pretty stable. And Dick came back and when he came back, By then I was actually running pretty decent. When I got out of the car, Dick said to me, we can do this.[00:36:00]

He didn’t say you can do this. He said, we can do this. And I’m like, what? And so that was what changed from, I want to drive an IndyCar to, oh my God, I got a team owner who’s willing to give me a shot at this. It was in 1988. And that’s when I started the whole mission of trying to race an IndyCar. God knows I did not want to start at the Indy 500, but when I was pitching sponsorships, that was the only race that anybody wanted to talk about was the Indy 500.

I was in. I felt so good in the car. It’s the first time I didn’t have to wrestle with a car to get it around the track. I mean, hell, I stopped. I mean, I put the foot on the brake and the car stops. I literally, the first time I had to drive, the car came to a stop on the straightaway because I was so used to the Trans Am cars and the heavy cars that, you know, you, you have to break back there to get the car slowed down up there.

And instead I break back there and then the car came to a stop. I’m like, holy shit, I have to put it in first gear and drive back down to the corner. But it was beautiful. I mean, I felt so one with the car and it was just great. And not only that. At the end of the day, [00:37:00] after we got all done and Dick said that, he said, Hey, come on, join us for dinner.

He took the whole team to dinner. It was just the family atmosphere. When you run with Dick Simon, you were just part of the family. That was something that I kind of didn’t have with some of my other racing experiences that I remembered that I did have when I was running SCCA. It was like, there was just a family spirit with Dick that connected with me and.

We’re friends to this day. I mean, he and Diane are just wonderful people and there’s so many people on pit lane, not so much now, but for many, many years that at one time or other, there’s almost every crew guy working in IndyCar at one time or the other worked for Dick Simon, you know, I mean, he kind of.

He was just a super, super team owner and a super guy.

Crew Chief Eric: So catching everybody up, this road to Indy took four years. And in 1992, you got your chance on the big stage. You finished 11th in the world’s most iconic race. I’ve watched this on TV as a kid. It was absolutely just amazing. And you took home the Rookie of the Year honors against a rookie class that featured [00:38:00] both Paul Tracy and Jimmy Vassar.

And notably you were the first woman to ever win the rookie of the year title. So what was it like being on track now that you’ve built up to it? Big day comes you’re out there.

Lyn St. James: First of all, Dick also was very smart. He took me to Texas, the old Texas track before we got to Indy for rookie orientation to teach me how to go flat on an oval.

Because it is instinctive that when you are going to turn the steering wheel, that your right foot comes off the gas. I mean, it’s just instinct, you know, turn the wheel, lift, and then go back. Well, you can’t do that. Ultimately at Indy, you’ve got to be able to be comfortable. And there was no media, there were nobody else there.

It was just, so it was this real comfort level that he prepared me for. So that when we got to Indy, at least I had that under my belt. I mean, the Indianapolis 500 was my second open wheel race. And my first oval track race, I mean, I don’t recommend that for anybody. I did every lap available in the pace car that we could have had before we even got in the race [00:39:00] cars.

And I had dick simon again as he was a great teacher. He had that ability because he was a former driver himself that he could tell me what I needed to know when I needed to know it. We took it nice and slow, you know, and that was when you had the whole month. I mean, that was when the whole month was available to you.

I thought I died and gone to heaven. I mean, I, I looked at every day is like Christmas, you know, and I would show up at the track, even if we weren’t running, I was there every day. And I just felt this is like, it’s like Christmas. I mean, it was just. An amazing experience. I never, ever, ever expected to get Rookie of the Year.

I didn’t even know they had such a thing until we got this packet for all the rookies and then, you know, told us there’s a Rookie of the Year. There’s a past history of who all the former rookies. I never paid any attention to that. Until then, and then when I saw all the rookies that were there, we had 9 rookies that year.

I think it was a very big rookie year. I was like, there ain’t no way just forget that. So I really never expected that. I’m proud of it. I was [00:40:00] really proud that I actually held the record until this year as being the oldest rookie in the history of the Indianapolis 500 and the oldest rookie of the year.

But good old buddy, Jimmy Johnson decided to take that record away from me this year. So he was, I told him that when I saw him at Daytona at the 24, I said, well, I got to tell you I’m cheering you on. But meanwhile, I’m kind of pissed off because you’re also taking my record. I know you’re going to get rookie of the year unless you crash and you aren’t going to crash.

You’re too smart for that anyway. So yeah, he’s got that record from me.

Crew Chief Eric: But you also hold tons of other records, especially speed. Yeah, I know. So let’s, let’s talk about one important in particular to this race itself. Most people may not realize you were the first woman to go over 200 miles an hour.

227.32 to be exact. And let me repeat that. The first woman to reach over 200 miles an hour. Full stop. What was that like?

Lyn St. James: Well, I mean, actually the first time I went over 200 was in the Ford probe at Talladega. We averaged [00:41:00] 204. You know, I can’t say it was the first woman to go over 200 miles an hour, maybe on an oval track because there there’s others going down Bonneville and other high speed, you know, drag racing.

I mean, hell they’ve been going. Shirley Muldowney has gone over 200 miles an hour. I’m sure the dragster around an oval. Yeah. Over 200 things start to change. I can tell you that. I mean, everything comes up on you so much faster, you know? And then I went average to 12 at Talladega in the Ford Thunderbird in 1988.

And my top speed there was two 32, all those things. When I talk about the Indy 500 being my first oval track race and only my second open wheel at the same time, because of Lamar. And running the most on straight at 230 miles an hour because of running Talladega at 230 some miles an hour and the Thunderbird and also running that oval, even though it was in a stock car.

And this is to me important for any young driver. Or any driver wanting to go someplace they aren’t there yet is to pay a lot of attention to what you’re learning about where you’re [00:42:00] at now, because everything you do now will pay dividends on something that you’re going to do that you haven’t done yet.

But if you aren’t absorbing that, you know what I mean? If you aren’t processing the learning that you’re getting from that experience, you’re having now. You’ll have a hard time remembering it or drawing it when you go to that next thing, the high speed stuff that I had, the open meal stuff that I had, the little bit, it was the prototypes where I was able to run down for us, the turbo XR, 40, the turbo Ford probe, all of those pieces were things that I was able to use to some help, you know, when I got to IndyCar running.

The Cosworth Turbo with a lot of downforce and then trimming it out, understanding the difference between having downforce and then loving it and then losing it because now we trim it out for qualifying, you know, and so it’s just gobs and gobs and gobs of experience that you just have to, you have to be.

able to really retain and retain the physicality of [00:43:00] what it feels like. It isn’t just data, even though by the time I got to Indy, there was data. Oh, I love the data by the way. I mean, I love, give me a graph, you know, let me see my, the trail, you know, of my throttle. Let me see my break, you know, anything I’m like, I want to know, I want to know it was, I loved the data, but you have to really process how it feels.

Because how it feels is what you’re going to really react to. You don’t have data while you’re in the race car. You only have that to study afterward.

Crew Chief Eric: Very, very true. So what came after Indy?

Lyn St. James: I mean, after 2000, my last

Crew Chief Eric: 500,

Lyn St. James: I thought maybe life was over. I mean, to be really honest, because, you know, I’ve been racing solid from what?

1974 to 2000. And then I tried to get a deal together for 2001 and it didn’t happen. And then that’s when I realized it’s over 53 years old, older than any sane person should be driving anyway. At this point, it’s over. And that was tough. I went through a really, really tough time because I had no race to look forward to.

Even though I was only [00:44:00] sometimes running Indy only, I was either working towards it or I knew it was in the, it was going to happen. And I was getting ready for it. I always had that next race. Always, even if it didn’t happen, I was still getting ready for that next race and I had no next race. I can tell you, it was really tough and a lot of other stuff that wasn’t going well in my life as well, but what I did have is my driver development program.

And so I, I had that commitment to try to help the young up and coming drivers. And so I continued with that. And then I got the opportunity to run a vintage race and I didn’t really get the opportunity to run a vintage race at CSRG, which is the vintage race group out in the West Coast. And they asked me if I’d be the grand marshal.

They wanted me there for four days and they had no budget. Isn’t that always

Crew Chief Eric: the case?

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And I said, look at guys, you don’t want me around for four days at a racetrack, particularly if you aren’t paying me. I said, I’ll drive you guys crazy. I’ll be the biggest pain in the ass, but if you get me a ride and something, you don’t have to pay me anything.

Right. You [00:45:00] know, I’ll stay as many days as you want, you know? So for 11 years, I was a pain in the ass. And so I got a ride in a Formula Atlantic car.

Crew Chief Eric: I was going to say, did they get you a Pinto?

Lyn St. James: No. And in fact, I even said, no, I told him anything but a Pinto. Do not show up with a Pinto. Chris Locke had a Formula Atlantic car.

He had a Formula One vintage car, one of the Mario Andretti’s Lotus’s. And then he had this Formula Atlantic car that he had used as a trainer to get ready for him to be able to run this. Lotus Formula One car of Mario’s. He was this really good guy who, who then said, yeah, she could run my car. I remember in the seventies, what, when I was running the Pinto and then I’d run the Vega and then I was running that Corvette, I’d watch those Formula Atlantic cars and I’m like, God, those cars look so cool.

Someday I want to race a Formula Atlantic car. So here I am in 2011, after everything else I’ve done, I finally get to race the Formula Atlantic car. And it was like everything that I could have dreamt about. I mean, it was like a mini Indy car, you know? And so, I mean, I was already. Old and the car was not [00:46:00] as fast as an Indy car, which was a good thing, but it had downforce and it had power and it handled and it did all the things like an Indy car.

And so I got to run a lot of seasons in that the vintage car world opened up to me in 2011. And all of a sudden I had a next race to look forward to. And it was like, I was reborn all over again. So, you know, I continued the driver development program. When you said what happened after, you know, Indy is that.

I did that until around 2013, and then I decided to turn over whatever funds I had raised to create a scholarship fund for women in racing. And I turned it over to the women’s sports foundation, which I was very active in and very involved in. I continued to do vintage racing up until 2019 when I had a bad crash at Indy.

So I got to do vintage racing, but for eight years was fun.

Executive Producer Tania: You hit on this earlier. You talked about it. But you didn’t really. Share any negatives and I’m sure there must have been so the elephant that’s been on the podcast this whole time is the [00:47:00] sexism you undoubtedly must have encountered or maybe you didn’t, but I would be very surprised if that’s the answer.

Did you have any particularly bad experiences? Was it not that bad, but you’re just the type of person that you said, I ain’t dealing with your crap and I’m doing my thing. So get out of my way.

Lyn St. James: It was probably mostly the last, but at the same time, I mean, I had to develop a pretty thick skin. Obviously I hired a basketball coach at one point to help me deal with.

The stuff, this is another thing that I advise people is that you have to have your own personal board of directors or whatever you want to call it, your group that are wanting to support you and that are outside of the circle of your race team and your race so that you could keep a clear head and you get good advice.

And I mean, there, there’s some stories for sure. I mean, and most of them center around Jack Roush, who was the team owner for many of the seasons I was with Ford. Jack and I were not on the same page and he was the boss. There were some really, really rough times. I’ve shared some of [00:48:00] those. The year that I won Daytona the first time, 87, I literally was going to retire from racing at two o’clock in the morning because he wouldn’t let me in the car.

I had one stint and then I was out of the car and there was a thing on the board, you know, when the next shift is, you know, and I just kept getting moved off, moved off, moved off. And I was so pissed, you know, but I had a friend that I called at two o’clock in the morning. In Miami, I’m in Daytona and I said, I’ve had it.

I’m not going to put up with this step anymore. And I said, so I’m going to go press conference that I’m going to retire. And my friend said, Lyn, it’s two o’clock in the morning.

Executive Producer Tania: Nothing good happens after 2am.

Lyn St. James: First of all, nobody cares. Nobody cares if you retire from racing or whether you race or not, you’re going to let somebody else take away your passion.

You’re going to let somebody else really just talk sensitive to me. He said, go and get some sleep. When the sun comes up, you’ll be in the car. So, well, when the sun came up, I got ahold of the head at Ford racing and I called a meeting and with Jack and with him. And I said, I got to get in this car. Ford is the sponsor.

They’re [00:49:00] paying for me to be in this car. And Mr. Ford, who happened to be Lee Morris, I said, you tell him that I’m going to be in this car. And I got in the car and I got my four hours in and at two o’clock that afternoon, I was in victory circle at Daytona. So, I mean, that was a huge, huge lesson, you know what I mean?

So, but you know, Jack and I had had many, many, many of these up until that point and before that and after that, but you know, there was shit that happened, but at the same time, I would be like, I had to focus on the things I could control or that I could do something about. And so I would just continually want to learn more about how to be a better race car driver, how to know like stuff I was telling you about learning more about how to identify what was right or wrong with a race car.

I mean, the people part of it was the hardest part, but I’ve tried to deflect by focusing more on the competition part and how I could be better prepared. That was my way of dealing with it was I can’t. And I, and I had a basketball coach that said, don’t [00:50:00] try to change others. You have to change yourself to adapt, to put yourself in a stronger situation.

You can’t fix the world, Len. Fix yourself and focus on yourself. And so that’s what I did.

Executive Producer Tania: Can’t always fix other people, but you can fix how you react. To other people

Lyn St. James: and be better prepared. And, you know, just the whole thing was, you know, most of it, I mean, it was just get over it and focus on my performance and, uh, and let it speak hopefully more, but it’s hard.

It’s hard. I, the hardest part with my crew, because in most cases. Literally, almost 99. 9 percent of the time, the crew working on my car, we were like, together, we were a unit. They were the ones that had to put up with a lot of the shit. It was hard to try to help keep them motivated and to help keep them glued together.

Because they were the ones that directly impacted my performance. But at the same time there, if their hands were tied, they were more frustrated than I was, you know what I mean? And in some cases, cause they knew more, you know, you just had to focus on the stuff you can do something about and let the rest of it,

Executive Producer Tania: [00:51:00] was there a difference between when you were on the amateur level versus going to the professional level, or is it pretty much the same?

Lyn St. James: No, it was pretty much the same. I mean, it was probably worse on the amateur level because they were mostly my buddies. And then they’re like, well, you go make a sandwich. I mean, cause that’s what I was doing too. I was making the sandwiches, doing the timing and scoring, go make a sandwich, go shut up and make a sandwich.

You know, you know, and I’d be like,

do you think it’s better now? I think so. But you know, the thing that I still worry because it’s, the world has not changed as much as we would like it and it’s evolved a bit, but I do worry partly because. They’re all so much younger now. In other words, you have to understand, I was in most cases old, as I said, old enough to be some of their mothers, you know, I mean, a lot of the people that I worked with, I was so much older than them.

You already knew

Executive Producer Tania: how to deal with a lot of that stuff. I did. I didn’t

Lyn St. James: understand that. I really had a more mature brain than most. And so many of the gals today that are out there competing are young [00:52:00] and that’s great. Cause everybody is younger. I mean, But at the same time that they haven’t had life experiences, you know, and, and I’m a little worried that they’re not ready to figure out how to deal with it.

And you can’t train that you can’t, you know, it’s, it comes. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: One of those things you don’t understand until it happens to you, where somebody is acting away just because you happen to be female, or you happen to be even with minorities or anything like that, like until you’ve had that experience. For yourself, then it’s like, wow, that’s what that is.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And you know, many of you gals are very attractive. When you

Crew Chief Eric: had that perm back in the day.

Lyn St. James: Oh my God. Some of these hairstyles. I know. Oh God. God, I know. It’s the way we laugh about those. That’s for sure. I mean, there’s just the way the culture of the way society is, you know, and there’s a lot of stuff that goes on.

And, but when I hear some of these stories, Tonya, that these gals have told me. And then I go, well, what did you say? Or what did you do? Oh, you know, I didn’t really know. And I didn’t want to complain. I said, you grab [00:53:00] him by the collar and say, don’t do that. Not going to happen. You know, sometimes you’ve got to stop it.

Executive Producer Tania: Unfortunately, we’re not trained to be that way. So that is one thing we could do to help the young ladies is train that assertiveness and to not tolerate That behavior when it happens and yeah, don’t make it exactly that.

Lyn St. James: Don’t go screaming and hollering and make a big fuss, but stop it at the butt. You know, nip it at the butt.

Exactly. Yeah. You don’t

Executive Producer Tania: have to go all postal, if you will, on somebody. You can make your point assertively and say, this does not fly. Sorry.

Lyn St. James: That’s exactly. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So I, I was thinking about this. You’re seeing more all female teams these days. Take Beth Perretta’s team as an example, or the Iron Dames who just competed in the 22 Le Mans.

Do you think what you did back at Le Mans, you know, in the late eighties, early nineties set the stage for that?

Lyn St. James: Well, first of all, because. I was just the woman, you know, the girl, whatever. I don’t think it set the stage. I mean, it laid some [00:54:00] groundwork to create in the minds of the others. And I don’t mean the other females, but I think of the, of the guys that, oh, I may be making assumptions, it’s wrong, but it’s like, well, she’s okay.

I think there was an acceptance. I mean, like Wayne Taylor was actually my teammate at Le Mans, you know, the year that I ran with, because we had two cars and I was with Gordon Weiss and Ray Bellum, but Wayne Taylor was in the other car, you know, of the two cars. And I’m only using that as an example that I, you know, Wayne’s now a dad and he’s got his own team and he’s totally receptive and open to having females.

You know, on a scene, and I’m not saying that’s because of me, but I’m just saying, I think that I planted some seeds. I kind of created an image that, oh, I mean, it is okay. Not that they wanted it necessarily, not that they were excited about it, not that they were going to celebrate it, but it was just, it was okay.

And then you have the women that are now showing up, which is amazing and their performance. is that clearly it’s okay. In other words, their performance is solid. So whether it’s Catherine Legge or Simona or [00:55:00] the Iron Dames today or Anna Beatrice or, I mean, we could go on, you know, and on with the Sarah Fisher.

I mean, these drivers earned. Those seats and earn those. I mean, they had their ups and downs is like every race car driver has. But I think that that’s what excites me is that the ones showing up with a rare exception are fully qualified, fully earning the respect and delivering the performance. And I think that’s what needed to happen, you know, I was the odd one out to a certain degree because I was the only one and thank God I didn’t mess up too much.

And I kind of opened the, the minds, I guess, the plant, the seed and open the minds that it’s where I think I made a difference and I didn’t plan this. Believe me, it was just my own stubbornness. And determination to not ever stop was that I was around long enough the whole decade of the 90s that I mean, if I had done Indy one rookie of the year, which I only had a one race deal from JC Penney, everybody’s expectation was, Hey, check the box.

You’re old, you know, you’re the oldest rookie. You’re done. [00:56:00] And I had a one race deal. Dick and everybody was like, we did it. Terrific. Next. There was no next, except I decided there was. And then, and I went to JC Penney and I, you know, and I kept going and going. So I think the best thing was that I continued to compete in the nineties while these other kids were growing up and getting old enough to then be there, you know, and then.

Sarah came and Danica came, you know, so there was enough continuation. If there’s a big gap, a big void in history, in anything, if you go like, like this, and then there’s this big gap and it just falls off, people forget about what happened back here. Where I think there was enough sustaining story about a woman that’s still competing, you know, and then you’ve got Michelle Mouton started the women in motorsports commission in 2010.

It was a trickle, a little activity, but at least there was activity continuing and Danica going to NASCAR. I mean, the whole thing is that there was sustaining enough. And now we’ve got more numbers, which is what [00:57:00] we’ve needed for the longest time. And so it

Executive Producer Tania: still felt like a huge hurdle, but at least you could see there is a possibility for us.

We could also be,

Lyn St. James: I really got to know you, Tanya. I liked you.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, thank you. Oh, I’m enjoying you very much. So

Lyn St. James: you’re, you’re that generation now that’s, you know, your perspective valuable and is, you know, really, I mean, you’re living it. And yeah, yeah,

Executive Producer Tania: living it. And yeah, we’ll see. So another question, given what you know now and what you went through, if you were starting over, let’s say, I think the first thing you’d probably say is I would start earlier.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. Start younger.

Executive Producer Tania: So you’re starting earlier now, but you’re starting today. Would you still jump straight into competition license? into the races, or do you think you would have gone a different route, maybe built up to that differently, or your personality, you would have just jumped in. So

Lyn St. James: that’s a really good question.

I mean, I definitely [00:58:00] would have started earlier, even though I worry when they start five, six, seven, eight years old, that they’re going to get burned out by the time, you know, they kind of peak at that age of seven, 16, 17, 18, when the world is really should start opening up to them, that they’re burned out.

You know, I, I worry when. Cause after, you know, 10 or 15 years of that life, you can get burned out. And so, you know, I wish I’d known about like things like autocross and even though I hate pylons. So a pylon is a target to me, you know, I got to hit it. You know, you mentioned like track days, like, you know, if I had had more.

Track time, more seat time, because I love testing and I love going against the clock. I love that. Give me a lap time and the target

Executive Producer Tania: fixate on.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And also the, you know, the, the data that’s available today. I mean, I’d be, I’d be looking at those graphs and, you know, and absolutely loving every bit of it.

The by product of that is, Oh, I’m going to be faster than it. And I can take the corner. You know, I can, I know I can take that corner because. I’ve done it, you know, and I’m going to take it better than the idiot [00:59:00] next to me. But it was as much about the joy of driving, the joy of driving the race car and then of getting the most out of the race car.

So those are my priorities. The joy of getting in the car and getting the most out of the car. And then, oh, by the way, beating that’s the third piece for me. And I think that’s in my nature, no matter how young or old I am, because it is hard to learn while you’re doing it. You know, there was those early races were rough.

I mean, I had a guy that. protested me for giving them the finger in the race. I was like, what? You know, and I had to get witnesses to come in from the corner to say that I was only pointing him by and I, you know, I don’t know what finger I used. I don’t know, but it was like, you know, I mean, it was silly, stupid stuff that I had to deal with, you know, really early on that if I hadn’t been in that wheel to wheel competition mode right out of the box, I think I probably, you know, would have.

been a little more comfortable, but,

Executive Producer Tania: and I’d honestly question whichever finger you may or may not have used, had you been a different gender, would anyone have protested you? Probably not.

Lyn St. James: A big deal, right? Yeah. No, I [01:00:00] don’t know. You know, I think knowing what I know about the sport and knowing what I know about me starting sooner and maybe taking advantage of what’s available now, which would be technology data.

I would have definitely fought to have a better race car. I

Executive Producer Tania: was about

Lyn St. James: to say, would you have still chosen Ford Pinto? Even though I have to admit, I have to, I’ve watched the Miata, the spec Miata series and all that, and that’s some of the best training ground because race craft is so critical. And if you’re in a series that there’s too much variance.

In the speeds, or you’re in a series where there’s like 6 or 7 cars or 8 cars or 10 cars in your class versus 30 cars in your class and have them all be the same. That’s where you get race crap. I have to admit that I would have liked that because I think that’s where you really develop the confidence and, you know, the knowledge and.

And you learn how to be a clean racer. You gotta be a clean racer to be successful. You gotta bring the car home. Yep. You know, and you can’t be running people off the track, you know.

Crew Chief Eric: So Lyn, looking at all the cars that exist in the fields between, you know, IMSA and [01:01:00] SRO and all these different racing organizations that are out there.

If you were starting today, is there something you would love to jump behind the wheel of?

Lyn St. James: I just don’t look at it that way anymore. I mean, I just posted actually on Facebook, my favorite race car that I have had my butt in that I would love to race again. And I will actually, I’ve talked to him about it is the Ford GT that Kevin Doran built from the 2007.

So it’s like the GT3 car, you know, it’s prepared to a GT3 level. And it was a GT3 car that speed handling package. I would get pretty impatient if I don’t have a lot of power. I’ve gotten spoiled where I like a car that I want to do the breaking. I don’t want. ABS. I don’t want to go so to the highest level of technology.

I looked at the Ford GT that won Le Mans in 16 and I saw that. I think it was at Long Beach when they were still where they were running an IMSA. And I mean, it was like. Oh, my God. Way too complicated. I mean, you know, the cockpit, everything on the steering wheel. I mean, all of it. It was like, you know, I so I want some simplicity and that’s kind of the era would have been the probably the mid [01:02:00] 2000s and that for GT was just fabulous.

So the new shit is way too much. It’s way too much, too complicated,

Executive Producer Tania: especially when it breaks.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. Yeah. And then, and I even remember at the time with Chris, the technology is better today, but when we were with the Ford probe, you know, the thing would just stop running out of the, you know, and nobody, nobody knew all it’s.

got to be the black box, you know, and they just changed the box. Nobody knows what was wrong with the car, but that’s how they learned. The point I’m making is I don’t want a lot of technology. So I would want to have a car that I’m racing and driving and not technology and not having, and then just a car, a car that you drive.

Lots of power, lots of power, brakes and handles. That’s all.

Crew Chief Eric: I think what we learned though, is by reading between the lines that Lyn is a blue oval gal through and through with that answer.

Lyn St. James: Well, I mean, Ford was good to me. I mean, seriously, I mean, I’d be very, very candid on this. I had Ford as a sponsor on one year contracts from 1981 to 1994 between personal service [01:03:00] and full race sponsorship in good equipment dealing with a very difficult owner at one point, but still that gave me such quality experience and exposure and race.

I would have not had the kind of career I had without that kind of experience. So, I mean, I, I have a loyalty to Ford that will run forever in my, my veins. My blood’s not blue. It’s just that, you know, I, I have a loyalty to Ford for what we did together. I mean, they didn’t give it to me, but I earned it, but I worked hard to get it.

But at the same time they were there and there were critical people that at the right time. And I talked about that a lot, quite frankly, is that it’s the people that have your back When you’re not in the room within the team, within corporate sponsorship, within, even if it’s the chief steward, you have to know who’s in charge and you have to know who’s got your back because many times it’ll be somebody that will make the difference in your career when you weren’t even in the room.

You didn’t even know that conversation happened. That’s why relationships [01:04:00] are so critical and you have to pay attention, not just who your friends are, but who to make sure. Understands who you are and what you’re about. That’s very, very important. And

Executive Producer Tania: those are true words, not only in the racing environment, but

Lyn St. James: any business in any relationship.

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Executive Producer Tania: I

Lyn St. James: mean, most businesses have a fairly structured business. You know who the boss is or, you know, who’s in charge, who’s the manager, whatever racing, it’s, it’s a free for all. And you just don’t know necessarily who can make the difference. And so there’s, it’s a harder to reel it in, you know,

Executive Producer Tania: shifting gears a little bit.

So tell us about this foundation. You founded the women in the winner’s circle,

Lyn St. James: the women in the winner’s circle, I have disbanded. So that doesn’t exist. I closed it in 2013 and turned the funds over to the women’s sports foundation for project podium. But what I did co found this year with Beth Perretta is women in motorsports, North America, and that I’m very proud, very excited.

We have a working group of over 40 people. I mean, I have to admit, I was [01:05:00] totally focused in my past activities for drivers because I’ve always felt that it’s the drivers who are the most visible. And so if you’ve got women drivers out there successful. Then it’ll trickle over to everybody. But the reality is it’s cause I’m a driver, I guess.

And that’s how I felt the world was functioning is that now we have Beth as a team owner, people like Alba Cullen, you know, who used to be GM representative for NASCAR engineering now works for Hendrick. You know, so we have engineering, we have the business side. We have Laurie Eberhard, who’s a woman attorney and not just women.

We have men who are our allies. You know, we’ve got Dean Case, John Doonan, and Jim Jordan, and people that I know will have your back, even when you’re not in the room. So now we have this working group. We got our heads together last year, and we spent six months on the phone, once a month, talking about how can we make a difference for women in motorsports, in all disciplines, in all categories.

And that that’s how we’re going to move the ball forward. That’s how we’re going to help grow the sport. We’ve got an organization. [01:06:00] It’s a 501 C3. We’ve got priorities in advocacy and mentorship. I wanted to create sentiment. There’s a lot going on. I mean, there’s shift up now. There’s. Michelle Della Petta started a, you know, a scholarship program in her next gen.

There’s all kinds of stuff happening. The problem is that it’s all a little fragmented here and there. So I said, I want to create some kind of an umbrella over all of the stuff going on. SCCA has their women on track. So we’ve just caught this website that I’m most proud of that has multiple pages of information about Racing 101.

What kind of jobs are even existing within motorsports? You know, if you go to a website of a corporation, you know that you can find out the structure of the company. If you go to a motorsports website, all they give you is the schedule or how to become a member.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s no careers tab at the top.

Lyn St. James: Exactly. Exactly. And I’m finding that some of the times now there isn’t the way we’re at the bottom, but you know, I’m just trying to be information central. Also everybody who’s are part of our [01:07:00] community. It’s not a membership deal where you pay a membership fee and all that. Our community or people who are mentorship minded, you know, that their mindset is that if you pick up the phone and call them or you send them an email, they will respond because they want to mentor others and even mentor each other.

So we’re just kind of this umbrella organization to pull everything together that’s happening. And whether you’re in the media or you’re. A student, or whether you’re in the sport already, or you’re interested in the sport, you can come to this website and hopefully get your hands wrapped around what’s possible.

And that’s what Women in Motorsports North America is all about.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s amazing. Cause some people don’t want to be a driver, but they very much love the sport. And there’s so many ways they could be involved. You know, whether you’re a reporter or commentator or you’re, you’re an engineer, so you’re working as crew or whatever.

And. It really is hard to know what those opportunities are. So that’s a great resource for folks.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And you often start as a volunteer. We know that. I mean, that’s what our sport, the lifeblood of our sport of volunteers. Do you actually [01:08:00] know that you could actually become paid and have a career? You know, you may start as a volunteer, but you ultimately you could have a career.

So that’s kind of what we’re trying to accomplish.

Executive Producer Tania: Excellent. And that website for anyone who’s interested is women in motor sports and a. com

Lyn St. James: women. We call it women now, but that doesn’t help for the website, but it’s yes, it’s women in motor sports and a.

Executive Producer Tania: And it sounds like there’s an upcoming event later this year.

Lyn St. James: Yeah, we are very excited. We just literally launched it today, October 5th and 6th. We are going to have our women with drive summit. The debt proceeds will benefit women in motor sports, North America, but we have two days of panel discussions and keynote speakers. It’s going to be at the Hendrick racing team headquarters in Charlotte, North Carolina.

And it’s, you know, literally are full of agenda. So if you go to our website, womeninmotorsportsna. com you can click on that to sign up and register for this two day seminar. It’s going to be full of good folks, interesting people, [01:09:00] not just in motorsports. We’ve got a lot of people in motorsports that sometimes you can learn from best practices from other organizations.

So we’ve got sailing, you know, is another sport that women compete in and often with men. And we have other sports like that and other people coming in from other disciplines to talk about their Experiences and to help our sport be better. If you go to our website, the survey pops right up. And it’s a survey that I did through women in the winner’s circle.

When I had it back in 2004, we had 1856 respondents, 75 percent men. And it was all about the attitudes of women in motor sports. It amazed me that 75 percent of the respondents were men. It was very interesting. I had all kinds of research that was done with the data, but I had nowhere to go with it. I mean, it was.

Done with University of Indianapolis, U of I, a professor from the Women’s Sports Foundation from a university that did the analysis, but we never published it. It was just kind of there. And so what we did was [01:10:00] with my help, Cindy Sisson from GS Events and Shifting Gears. She said, let’s redo that survey.

It’d be great to compare it to the data that was. In 2004, and so we just upgraded it a little bit with the current sanctioning bodies and the types of racing going on, you know, in the, in social media, which we didn’t have back then. So, that survey is now online available through our website takes about 10 minutes to go through and it’s the same questions that we had back in 2004, and then we’ll be able to analyze those.

To just see what the attitudes about women in motor sports have changed, or it’s the same.

Executive Producer Tania: And if any of our listeners are interested in helping contribute to this survey, we’ll be sure to include all the web addresses and everything in our show notes.

Lyn St. James: Terrific. And then we’re going to keep it going because we’re going to announce the results of the survey.

at the October event. So the survey will be up for a while. I mean, my goal is to make sure we get at least that many respondents to compare what we had before.

Executive Producer Tania: Excellent. That sounds very exciting. I guess as we wrap up a little bit, what would you say if a young girl walked up to you right [01:11:00] now and asked, why did you, why do you race?

What would your answer be to them?

Lyn St. James: I mean, it’s actually because I love it and I found my passion. I mean, I think that we all have untapped reservoir that doesn’t always get tapped until we find our passion. I was always a hard worker. I was always, I always tried to be really good at what I did and, you know, get good grades, whatever you want to call it.

But I was kind of lost to be honest, until I found racing and racing found me. And so I just don’t think you don’t, we don’t know. What’s available to us or what’s possible until you do something that you’re just so passionate about, because it, it makes you better at everything. It makes you better, not only at finding that and doing that, but it also makes you better at everything else.

So it’s just find your passion. It really is find your passion. It may be racing. It may not. Don’t hesitate to explore the world to find something that just. You are so passionate about it, so compelled that it brings the best out in you. It brings everything you, you know, everything you have out because you’ll find that you have power, you have intelligence, you have energy, you [01:12:00] have whatever that you don’t know you have, that you maybe have to drag yourself to do the other things that you have to do.

Executive Producer Tania: And don’t let any of the naysayers tell you you can’t.

Lyn St. James: Yeah. And don’t let anybody take it away from you. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: And on that, Lyn, any other shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like. Talk about the, we didn’t cover thus far.

Lyn St. James: Well, thank you. I mean, I’m going to add, I am going to add one thing. Women need to be invited.

Men just show up. My piece of advice to every motor sports racetrack, every club, just invite the women by yourself, ladies, or, well, and if it’s the women out there that show up, don’t wait to be invited, but I just think it’s inherent in us, you know, that we just, we feel welcomed if we’ve been invited as opposed to that.

Oh, we just got to show up. You know, we hear it all the time. And that’s. It’s not just women actually, but it’s, if you, it’s a simple thing. I mean, I can’t, I mean, myself, I thought, well, I don’t, of course I don’t do that anymore. Now I’ll walk into any place, but you know, back in the day, I wouldn’t necessarily, you know, and if you don’t see someone [01:13:00] like yourself, then you don’t necessarily think I belong there.

And if you don’t belong there, you tend to not go there. Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: So it leads to a great question. What would you do to change the programs to make the paddock more inviting without being invited?

Lyn St. James: Yeah. I mean, without being invited, well, I mean, you don’t need to do a ladies day. You don’t need to have a ladies section, but think about having women that are part of your organization already in most cases.

I mean, there’s hardly and celebrate them, bring them forth as a part of your. Organization. And it’s an important part of your organization because I guarantee you, they probably are. And so a lot of times women are comfortable being in the background, you know, but if they work for you or they volunteer for you, celebrate that, elevate that as part of your story without making it sound like it’s a tokenism thing.

And if you don’t have anybody to celebrate, think about that because that means you’re probably missing an important piece of the puzzle and, and that’s how it’s going to [01:14:00] grow. I mean, I can remember with automobile dealerships, when I used to go to these dealers back in the 80s for Ford, you know, how do we sell more cars to women?

I mean, this is probably not a good example. One of the things I would do is I, can I use your restroom? And if you go in the restroom and it’s filthy, I mean, dealerships, it was often that way. And there would be nothing but baby car magazines around. Not that you should have women’s magazines around, but I mean, just think about what makes a woman comfortable to be in your space, to be in your environment.

So invitation, cleanliness, openness, celebrating the women that are already there. And the women need to step in and take some ownership. The women who are there need to take some ownership.

Executive Producer Tania: Put yourself out there, step up to the plate.

Lyn St. James: It’s a two way street from that standpoint. I would appreciate that you promote women in motorsports in North America because that’s ongoing, you know, and obviously a lot of your listeners are probably women or young girls or females.

And also appreciate the survey. You know, I do have a book out that’s been out for a while, so it’s not new. If people just go to my website, they’re in my [01:15:00] garage and I ship them out. And if you tell me you want me to autograph it, I’ll autograph it. Love going to the races. Just go to the races, man. Just go to the races.

Have fun.

Crew Chief Eric: With 31 speed records earned over a 20 year span with many. many wins and titles in her logbook. Lyn St. James reset more than just metrics in a record book. She rebooted the way we look at and think about motorsports. And because of her perseverance and accomplishments, she has inspired generations of talented women to also get behind the wheel of a race car.

Executive Producer Tania: And at 74 years young, her efforts to expand and equalize motorsports are far from over, and we can’t thank her enough. For all she’s done and continues to do for the racing world at large. To learn more about Lyn, you can visit her website www.Lynstjames.com, as well as her latest program, www.womeninmotorsportsna.com.

Or follow her on social@Lyn.st. James on Facebook [01:16:00] or search Lyn St. James on LinkedIn.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right. And Lyn, we cannot thank you enough for spending your evening with us here on break fix to walk us through the past and into the future. I want to again, thank you for everything you’ve done for the motor sports community at large and all the ladies that are out there that might be.

Considering going to the track, like Lyn said, go to the track.

Lyn St. James: Oh, I’m exhausted. So I’m glad that it worked out.

Executive Producer Tania: Thank you very much.

Lyn St. James: All right.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770. Or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey [01:17:00] everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports. And remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

None of this would be [01:18:00] possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:33 Meet Lyn St. James
01:37 Lyn’s Early Racing Days
05:21 The Pinto Story
07:56 Ford Sponsorship and Racing Career
11:26 Transition to Professional Racing
16:32 Learning and Competing in IMSA and Trans Am
20:05 Challenges and Triumphs in Racing
30:42 The Road to Indy
37:52 Rookie of the Year and Early Challenges
38:14 Learning the Ropes at Indy
40:30 Breaking Speed Records
43:26 Life After Racing
46:52 Facing Sexism in Racing
53:36 The Evolution of Women in Motorsports
57:29 Advice for Aspiring Racers
01:04:33 Women in Motorsports North America
01:10:53 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Bonus Content

Learn More

With 31 speed records earned over a 20 year span, with many wins and titles in her log book. Lyn. St James reset more than just metrics in a record book, she rebooted the way we look and think about Motorsports. And because of her perseverance and accomplishments, she has inspired generations of talented women to also get behind the wheel of a race car.

And at 74 years young, her efforts to expand and equalize Motorsports are far from over and we can’t thank her enough for all she’s done and continues to do for the racing world at large.

To learn more about Lyn, you can visit her website www.lynstjames.com as well as her latest program www.womeninmotorsportsna.com or follow her on social @lyn.stjames on facebook or search Lyn St. James on LinkedIn.

Lyn’s path to professional racing wasn’t linear. She helped build a business, worked as a secretary and bookkeeper, and attended endurance races like Daytona and Sebring. Seeing “real people” behind the wheel – not just superhumans – made her believe she could do it too.

She joined the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA), earned her competition license, and started racing. Eventually, she caught the attention of Ford—but not without effort. “I bugged them for three years,” she says. “I’m convinced they hired me just to get me to stop.” Ford wasn’t thrilled about the Pinto story, but Lyn insisted on keeping it in her narrative. “It gets laughs. It’s a great conversation piece.”

The cars of Lyn St. James - featured at Amelia Island Concours
Talladega Ford Top Speed Vehicle
Talladega Ford Top Speed Vehicle on Display at Amelia Island
Spice GTP/LMP1 Lemans 1989
Lemans 1991

TransAm, IMSA, and the Climb to the Top

With Ford’s backing, Lyn raced in the Kelly American Challenge, TransAm, and IMSA series. Her stats speak volumes:

53 TransAm races with 6 wins
62 IMSA GT races with 17 top-five and 37 top-ten finishes

She raced alongside legends like Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg, and Hans Stuck. “I watched them like a student,” she says. “I learned by observing their lap times, their pit setups, everything.”

One standout mentor was Bob Riley, a chassis expert who taught Lyn how to communicate what she felt in the car. “He asked the right questions. I had to learn how to speak engineer.”

In an era before simulators and telemetry, Lyn relied on instinct, observation, and conversation. “We had no data except for our butts and our fingers,” she jokes. She’d walk pit lane with drivers like Jim Busby, asking them to critique cars based on visual cues alone. Practice was hard to come by. She’d arrive early to walk the track or beg for a slow lap in a rental car. “It’s a frustrating sport,” she admits. “But when you nail a lap, it’s elation.”

Final Thoughts: Grit Over Glamour

Lyn’s favorite road course? Watkins Glen. “The flow, the rhythm—it’s just beautiful.” Her least favorite? Sonoma. “I never got a good lap there. It’s brutal.”

She also recalled the dominance of Audi’s all-wheel-drive cars in IMSA. “It was awful. You’d be hanging on in a corner, and they’d just drive by. It was an unfair advantage.”

Lyn’s story isn’t just about racing. It’s about resilience. She didn’t have coaches, simulators, or a racing pedigree. She had determination, curiosity, and a willingness to fail forward. “Racing is tough,” she says. “But it’s so rewarding. Just one good lap can hook you all over again.”

Women in Motorsports NA (WIMNA)

Women in Motorsports North America is a community of professionals devoted to supporting opportunities for women across all disciplines of Motorsport by creating an inclusive, resourceful environment to foster mentorship, advocacy, education, and growth, thereby ensuring the continued strength and successful future of our sport.

Take the WIMNA Survey!

In 2005, this online survey, was commissioned by the Lyn St. James Foundation and conducted by Prof. Butch Fennema and Prof. James Stephens, University of Indianapolis, and Don Sabo, Ph.D. D’Youville, College, with the primary goal is to understand race fans’ attitudes toward women in racing. Participation highlights included the following and our goal is to broaden the reach through the advances in social media, etc. and our collective reach.

- 1887 motorsports fans completed the survey; 74% males, 26% females
- 95% or 1801 are US Citizens
- 85% were between the ages of 20-57 (ranging between 8 and 84)
- All 50 states were represented, as well as from 15 other countries
- The 2022 study is being done in partnership with Dr. David Ferguson, Asst Professor, Michigan Sate University. David has done considerable research in racing for over ten years with the top teams in NASCAR, IndyCar, Formula 1, and IMSA

Our ask is that you take the 10 minutes to complete the study and to comment on your experience. You might also find this current research of interest. Thanks!

Rare Find! – The Original “Girls Guide to Cars”

There aren’t many of these books still remaining out there in the wild. And we are very fortunate to have snagged a copy for safe keeping. This 160 page book was published in 1984 and is designed like a factory owners manual found in your glovebox -but- for Women. “Lyn St. James’s Car Owners Manual for Women” covers everything from how to change a tire, maintain your engine, to buying and selling vehicles. This might very well be the earliest execution of the “Girls Guide to Cars” idea, and we have Lyn to thank for it! #neverstoplearning

The following content has been brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, Crowdstrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School.

Can you explain it to a 3rd grader?

Daniel S

September 1, 2022

What happens when you put a seasoned gearhead in the hot seat and let an eight-year-old grill him about cars? You get one of the most charming, enlightening, and downright hilarious episodes of GTM’s Break/Fix podcast to date.

In this special edition titled “Can You Explain It to a Third Grader,” Mountain Man Dan faces off against a panel of one: Clio, our host’s daughter and a budding motorsports enthusiast. Her mission? To ask 11 questions about cars that she’s always wanted answers to – and Dan’s challenge is to explain them in terms a third grader can understand.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Clio kicks things off with a deceptively simple question: “Why do cars need motor oil?” Dan dives into the world of lubrication, explaining how oil keeps engine parts from overheating and seizing up. Even electric vehicles, he notes, have components that may need lubrication – though he admits EVs aren’t his specialty.

Next up: “What part of the car breaks very easily?” Dan gives a nod to the fragile plastic interior bits of modern cars and then shifts gears to engine belts, explaining how a broken belt can take out your alternator or power steering. Clio, ever observant, asks if he means seatbelts. Dan clarifies with a mini lesson on serpentine belts and their rubbery, ribbed design.

When asked what makes a car stop, Dan takes Clio through the evolution of braking systems – from wood and leather pads to hydraulic calipers and even air and electric brakes used in larger vehicles and trailers.

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, we take a fun and educational spin by inviting an eight-year-old panelist, Clio, to ask automotive questions to their expert, Mountain Man Dan. The episode is inspired by Jeff Foxworthy’s game show concept but tailored to make car-related topics understandable to a third grader. Topics covered include the necessity of motor oil, car parts that break easily, the working of the braking system, internal combustion engine functionality, car crash survivability, electricity use in cars, hybrid vehicles, and self-driving cars. Additionally, Clio shares her experience at racetracks, her favorite part about cars, and her interaction with monster trucks. The conversation underscores the importance of involving kids in motorsports for the future of the industry.

Why do cars need motor oil?
What part of the car makes it stop?
What parts of the car breaks easily?
How does the engine work?
Can cars survive crashes or big big fires?
How does electricity get used in a car?
Do people race in old-fashioned cars?
Are there self-driving cars?

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motor sports related.

Remember that show with Jeff Foxworthy where we used to watch people show off how smart they were and if they could pass a fifth grade exam. Well, tonight we’re taking a break fix spin on that in a special called, can you Explain it to a third grader where Mountain Man Dan squares off against automotive questions from our eight year old panelist who just happens to be my daughter Clio.

So I don’t know about y’all, but I can’t wait to see how this turns out. And with that, let the games begin. Okay, Mr. Dan, I’ve written down 11 questions about cars that I wanna know. And you’re gonna have to answer all, okay. Why do cars need motor oil? Can’t they just run off electricity? That wouldn’t have to deal with the fact that electricity would be an electric car [00:01:00] and the normal internal combustion engine or diesel engines are requiring.

Oil for lubrication because there’s components inside the engines that move, and without the lubrication, the metal will get hot and seize up. I do believe that even some of the electrical vehicles, some of the components on those might require oil for lubrication as well, but as I’m not very versed in electric vehicles, don’t hold me to that.

Okay. Are you ready for the second question? I am ready. What part of the car breaks very easily. That could be a long list of things. So I would say apart that breaks, I would say for breaking very easily from the early to mid eighties on when they started putting a lot of plastic components in vehicles, especially like interior pieces, they break very easily and especially with young children such as yourself, you guys not exactly the most gentle with interior components.

So it is not uncommon for something in the interior of the vehicle to break. But did you have some specific in regards to. Items that break. I was thinking [00:02:00] like something inside the car, like name one thing inside the car that could break like very easily if the car were to break down again. I would say a very common thing for cars to break down alongside the road would be something such as a belt for the engine.

You know, if a belt breaks on the car, then you can lose things like your alternator, which is what gives you power or your power steering, which makes it more difficult to turn or do you think will clear. What kind of belt are you talking about? Are you, like you talking about the seatbelt or like a different kind of belt?

A different kind of belt. The belt on the car engine, there’s multiple types. There’s VB band, there’s rib. Most newer cars go with a rib style, which is for a serpentine system. So basically if you take in, just make a complete. Loop, and that’s what your belt is. It’s from start to finish. It just continues and it’s made of like a rubber material.

Some have fiber in them, like thread type material inside of them to help make them stronger. And they’ve been used on cars [00:03:00] for hundreds of years now, since the beginning. I remember. It’s kinda like. The pattern is like up and over. It’s kind of like castle Walls, how they’re like this, but smaller and on a circle wheel or like a circle chain.

Yeah. Similar like when you’re out in the garage with your dad and you. See on the side of the engine, you’ll see the belt there. And of course, we’ve got plenty of times, we have the engines out of the cars there. And when you’re paying attention to what we’re doing and not just playing and writing with chalk in the driveway and stuff, we’ll be glad to point it out to you.

Okay. Are you ready for question three? I think I am. What part of the car makes it stop? I’m talking about like the brake on the car. What part of the brake makes the car stop? Okay, so originally one of the very original methods of brakes, and I believe it was with Mercedes, when they first built the first [00:04:00] vehicle, they used wood and leather material for the brake pads.

The original versions were used with. Like a drum type system uses pressure to push out and that friction calls it to slow down. And then there’s also styles where they use a brake around where it’s, it’s a wheel and it’ll have like a strap come around it. When pressure’s applied, it draws pressure on the outside of that.

But with motor vehicles, it’s more common to see the drum or newer vehicles from probably the late seventies, early eighties on, they have what’s called a rotor and a caliper setup. And what that does is, The rotor will spin and a caliper sits on it. When you push the brake pedal, it’ll squeeze in on the side of it so it’s moving freely and easily.

And then when you push the pedal, it’ll squeeze in on it and uses hydraulic pressure to push in on that. The friction causes you to slow it down, but then there’s also, other than hydraulic, one larger vehicles such as your tractor and trailers, they use air brakes. And air pressure is what actually holds the brakes disengaged.

When you push the pedal, the air is [00:05:00] released out of the valve to put pressure on, and there’s also electric brakes on trailers, which it uses electromagnets to create the pressure on the shoe or the caliper to cause the friction. You hurt. D three first questions. Now I have seven more questions for you.

Okay. How does the engine work in a car? Okay, so I’ll go with the most common, which would be your internal combustion engine. The easiest way to explain that, which most internal combustion engines and cars are. Four stroke engines the easiest way I was taught, it’s called the suck, squeeze, bang pop. The suck phase of it is where it pulls air and fuel into the cylinder.

The squeeze portion is when the piston comes back up, creates compression, and the bang portion of it is when the spark plug creates ignition to ignite the fuel and air pushes the cylinder back down. The pop portion is when it releases those spent exhaust fumes out through the exhaust system. So [00:06:00] that’s the more technical, but basically use combustion to make a rotating mass, give you power that transfers to your transmission now to your power line in your vehicle.

So what is combustion? So combustion is when something ignites and. All different materials have different combustion points or flashpoints. So like fuel compared to diesel have different flashpoint. The combustion process and car engines uses the fuel, the compression. Which is basically compression is just squeezing really tight.

So when it squeezes that down really tight, it creates heat, which helps with the ignition process for the combustion when the spark plug ignites the fuel. Okay. Are you ready for the fifth question? I sure am. This will be tough. Can cars survive crashes? Depending on the extent of the crash, [00:07:00] yes, because many cars, when they get into crashes and there’s actually testing done, which has been done for the past few decades, companies like Volvo and SOB were very big on the safety aspects of the crashes.

So they would test and purposely use like crash test dummies in the vehicles to see how it would impact the passengers. And so they would run ’em into walls and other vehicles and things like that just to see what the aftermath was, what they would do in that process. They’d be able to give it a rating of how safe it was for the passengers.

But most accidents that occur, uh, you know, say somebody’s going down the road and a deer comes out in front and they hit a deer, a lot of times they can replace the things that got broke, such as, you know, your hood, your fenders, or even your glass and stuff. Those things can be replaced and make the car drivable again.

Okay, let’s see if you can do this. How does electricity get used in a car? Okay, so electricity and cars can be used in many different ways [00:08:00] with the aspect of the internal combustion engine. It is used to power your things like your lights, your horn, your radio. And even the fans and stuff, your heating and air conditioning, and especially all the actual entertainment you have sitting in the back, riding down the road, watching the TV and stuff, that’s what powers it.

And for your electric vehicles, it also uses that power to actually provide the energy to the electric motors. They turn the wheels to allow you to actually drive the vehicle down the road. Mm-hmm. Where does the power come from? So whether it be an electric vehicle or an internal combustion vehicle?

Majority of the time it’ll initially start out in a battery, and the battery is just a cell that retains the power for you to either initially start your internal combustion engine or with your electric vehicles, where it provides all the power the whole time. And then once the internal combustion engine is started, it has something either called a generator.

We’re an alternator, which most modern vehicles from the, I would say [00:09:00] fifties on one, have alternators. That is what puts out the power to the system after it’s actually up and running, and then it acts very similar to a generator, but alternators are the more modern technology of creating the power from a rotating mass.

The alternator, basically, it has. A lot of copper coils in it, and then inside of that’ll be an armature. And as that spins, it creates essentially electromagnetic force to put power out. Okay, Mr. Dan, do people race in old fashioned cars? Yes, they do. And there are actually leagues out there for just the purpose of receiving the order vehicles still.

I don’t know any of the specific names of the classes or the organization’s off the top of my head, but there are plenty of ’em out there where they’ll still run, like they’ll order open wheel cars and even, I think they’ve even had some where they use some like the steam powered vehicles to race as well.

A lot of those things happen and even within, other than. Cars in the agricultural community, [00:10:00] people still take out their old tractors and things that are steam powered and they’ll do tractor pools and such like that using the old steam powered tractors as well as the old and things like that as well.

Has anyone whos driven an old fashioned race car ever won a race? I would say yes. Cause normally any of those races that occurred, there’s always gonna be a winner. Now, if those older vehicles are racing against newer cars, it’s definitely more difficult for them to win the race. But most of the times they have those races.

They’re racing against cars that are similar in power weight design. So that’s more of an even match for them to race against their competitors. Clio, before we move on, I wanna know what your definition of old fashioned is. Like. Very old cars. Well, how old is old? I don’t really know how to describe it.

It’s like a car that is like very old in years. [00:11:00] Do you have a specific year in mind? No, just any. Okay. Give us a yes of a year that you consider to be an old car. I don’t really know any years that there might have been like really old cars in. Well, the very first car was invented in the 18 hundreds, over a hundred years ago.

Over 120 years ago to be exact. Did they have any really old cars in the year 18, like 55? No, not that far back. The first cars came out in the late 18 hundreds, right around 18 96, 97, 99, and in that era, Okay, more modern cars. What we would consider post-war cars, post-World War I cars, that’s when you started to see things become more standardized, more normal.

Pedals were all in the same place, steering in the same place. Levers were all standardized, things like that. So that didn’t happen [00:12:00] until the later 1920s, early 1930s. That was the beginning of the more modern cars. But even those are considered now vintage and classic. Why did they call it post? Born World War One, correct.

There’s been several World Wars. The first one started in 1914 and ended in 1918, and the second one started in 19, we’ll call it 39, and ended in 1945. So there are two periods of post-war vehicles. The first is anything from basically 1919 to 1938, and then after. The second World War 1946 until basically the mid fifties, those are still considered post-war cars, and then it kind of goes on from there.

Then we enter what they call the Dulce Vida era. Then we enter the muscle car era, we enter the malaise era, and they go on and on from there. As we move up through the decades until today. Oh yeah. Thank you. Act to Dan. [00:13:00] Okay, Mr. Dan, I have two more questions left for you. And cars survive big fire due to the materials that cars are made out of.

Older cars would stand up much better to a fire than a modern day car because a lot of the older cars, and I’m talking. Post-war type era where they’re a lot heavier gauge steel and metal cars back then could potentially catch fire, and if it wasn’t set there and just left a burn for hours where it melted or weakened the metal, they could be rebuilt.

A lot of the modern cars, there’s a lot of newer materials such as the plastics, composite materials, and even s like the aluminum hollows on wheels under the heat. They melt a lot faster than the metal of the older vehicles would. So depending on the era of the vehicle, I would say determines and also determines on the level of the fire.

Because there were fires scout in California when they had the massive fires raging throughout. There were cars that were burnt down to where it looked like a, just a poly molten metal. Cuz [00:14:00] if a fire gets hot enough, it’ll melt metal. You wanna talk about EVs in there as well? What, what EVs? The electric vehicles, I would say it’s gonna be much more dangerous for the fact that all the wiring and stuff required for the power and everything within the system, once that melts, you’re gonna have no power to the vehicle.

So if you were to try to rebuild an ev, it would be a very difficult job, in my opinion, because the batteries themselves, once the fire starts, they can act as an actual accelerant to the fire, a fuel for the fire, and create the fire to burn for even longer, which is why. Modern fire departments are coming up with new methods of how to fight the fires when an electric vehicle catches fire.

So it’s called an Evie, right? Yeah. Evie is an abbreviation for electric vehicle. When you said, Evie, I thought you meant the Pokemon type. Nope, I’m not. I’m not knowledgeable with Pokemon. So if a car was parked in a building, And the building was [00:15:00] breaking down, would the car still survive? And like if everything collapsed on top of it, if it was an old car back then, would it have survived?

There is potential that the car could survive because if we’re gonna look at, say, You know, the older vehicles like the 1950s, 1960s vehicle had heavier metals, or even prior once to that. A lot of the buildings during that time were made from wood, so some of the wood as it gets older and gets rotted.

It’ll be less dense so it falling on the car could potentially like create some dents and things. But I have seen what people consider like barn fines or field fines and stuff like that, where buildings and stuff have collapsed onto them and they were able to restore them. And I’ve even seen pictures of field fines where a vehicle be sitting there and a tree grows up through its hood or something.

Could modern day cars survive it? [00:16:00] Some possibly could, depending on, like I said, the type of building. There’s a lot of modern buildings now that are built with steel and other metal components. So I would say if it was like the building, I planned to put it, it’s gonna be a steel I beam building. If it were to collapse.

I don’t think even the older vehicles would hold up very well to that because of the density of the steel and the weight of it. But it is possible if a newer car were in one of the older wooden buildings and it were to fall, it could potentially be salvageable. Okay. Thank you to that question. Here’s the last question I will be asking you.

Alright. Are there self-driving cars yet? That’s a bit of a tricky question because some ways yes, but it requires certain parameters for them to work on general highways and roads. Right now, no, because there’s not infrastructure in place to give the proper sensing, and for the vehicles, it’s a technology they’re working on.

Hopefully we will eventually get there [00:17:00] because. When I was your age and I would watch movies and TV shows and stuff, they had self-driving cars and stuff. By the year 2020 we’re past 2020. We still don’t exactly have that, but even the Jetson showed us like flying cars and stuff. That’s something people work on as well.

But we don’t yet have ’em. But hopefully by the time you’re my age, you’ll see that. Hmm. In the year 2049. I wanna ask if my dad would want to try to answer one of these questions. Sure, bud. What do you got for me? I’m letting you say, Dan, watch you see you’re smarting in a third grader. Fair enough. Can steering wheels like get dented if you’re driving and you get into a car accident, can the steering wheel get very badly damaged and bent?

That’s a question I want. I know. Well, it [00:18:00] really depends on the type of accident. In the old days, there were many steering wheels that were made from different materials, namely, let’s say wood, lighter metals, things like that. So they don’t have the same safety ratings that the modern pieces do, which means they were more prone to braking and bending, denting, things like that based on the type of accent, the cars themselves weren’t nearly as safe as they are today.

Steering wheels today have airbags. In them to try to protect you from hitting them with your body, which was one of the causes of them bending or breaking was the weight of your body and the force of your body hitting those steering wheels in an accident. Is it likely that a steering wheel today would dent or bend?

Probably not. It’d have to be pretty extreme for something like that to happen. It’d be a pretty nasty accident. So in the old days, yes. Today, not so much. Got it. Thank you for answering that. Questions you don’t have anymore. That’s it. Just 10? Mm-hmm. 11. I [00:19:00] had 11, but you answered the bonus. 11 questions. So what if we asked you a couple questions?

What if we turn the tables here and have Mr. Dan ask you some questions? Oh, Okay. I don’t, nothing about the subject. I’ll try to think of something pretty simple. Let’s see. Okay. What is your favorite car? I don’t really know the different types of cars, so I don’t really know which one to choose, but I would probably say the same type of car that my mom’s scar is like don’t what type that is.

Are we talking about the spaceship van? What? Your mom’s spaceship van. It’s a minivan. I know, but it sounds like a spaceship. One is running off the battery portion about the engine since it’s a hybrid. Are you? Well, I’m just gonna have to go with it. Speaking of your mom’s van, how’s this that is considered a hybrid?

Do you understand what that [00:20:00] means when they talk about cars? Cause we’ve spoken about internal combustion like an an electric car cause it runs on electricity. Yep. It also has a gas engine, which was what makes it hybrid, so it can run on both depending on the situation, and it allows you to have the reliability of the internal combustion engine if your batteries go dead.

Okay. You answered a question and I also answered a question for you. So, Clio, you’ve been coming to the racetrack since you were a baby. What, what do you think of that experience? What’s it like at the racetrack? So, first off, I like it because I get to see like it was the winner at the track and stuff, and I also get to see like friends and family and stuff.

But my favorite part is actually hearing the noises. Because it’s fun, like hearing the different car sounds, trying to memorize which sound is which one, it comes past [00:21:00] you. So I really like enjoying that and I like memorizing the different cars, like pass by like, oh, there’s a green car. Oh there’s a pink one.

Oh, there comes the green car again. Very nice. Can you pick out Mr. Dan’s car when he is out there on track or daddy’s car? I haven’t been to the track in a while, so I don’t really remember, but I feel like my dad’s is black. Cause black, black. You don’t say,

you always look out in the garage, then you would know what your dad’s car looks like. The one in the garage or outside of it? Well, depending on where he has parked for the day,

he has so many cars. How do I know which one is switch? I rookie numbers. He’s gotta increase those numbers. He gotta get up to the amount of cars that I got here at my place. Is it the one with like [00:22:00] one of does have that? Yes.

But I do not remember what your race car looks like, Mr. Dan. Well, it’s been a while since you’ve seen it. It’s got a lot more stickers and decals on it now than you when you saw it last. So hopefully you’ll make it out to one of our upcoming events and see it again. What’s the easiest way to remember a car as it goes by on the track?

Do you know? No, I just figure out its colors and what sounds it makes and try to memorize the label on the front of the car because every car has like this different label. I’m saying which brand it’s from. Very true. Which brands do you know? Clio? I forget. All I do is look at the logo. I don’t even read the words.

I’m just like, oh, there’s the logo. So what’s the logo? What’s the logo look like on mommy’s car? So I feel like it has like this oval shape [00:23:00] thing. It does. Does it look like wings? What never. You’ve never noticed? No. Next time you look at the fan pay attention, it looks like wings. They look like, like bird wings, basically.

I don’t know why the Chrysler logo is bird wings, but whatever. That makes no sense. Real quick, back on the way of identifying cars on track, Clio is as they go by, Most tracks have a ruled where you have to have a number on the side of the car. So example Mr. Judd in the club, and I had the same color car.

So without the numbers on the side, it would be difficult to tell which of us was going by. Consider, do you have, so on the Volkswagen it’s 8 0 8. Is that my dad’s car four here? Well, your dad has two Volkswagens or well a Volkswagen, a semi Volkswagen on the other since it’s Volkswagen powertrain. So how many Volkswagens does my dad even have?

Not gonna [00:24:00] get into that. Here. It’s an episode for another day. It’s like six, seven in parts. Yes, that’s for sure. Definitely. Mr. Dan, would you like to ask me another question? All right. I know this past summer we went to a little outing out near your house. And we got to see something other than race cars.

Do you remember what type of vehicles that was? That we saw Go-karts. They were a little bit bigger than Go-karts. They were really noisy. Monster trucks. Yep. So how did you like the Monster Trucks? I really liked that they were so colorful and they did like flips and stuff and I really liked it. I’m gonna throw this out there, Lou, anytime you have any curious ideas regarding cars and stuff like that, I know your father’s more than willing to answer those questions as well as for helping out.

Feel free to come out and we’ll even put a wrench in your hand and let you turn some wrenches with us. [00:25:00] Seriously. Sure. I’m gonna. I’m sure your father might prefer be one of my cars, but we can make that happen. Yay. But you gotta, you’re, you’re never too early to learn. Right. You’re never too early to, you know, change the motor oil on something that you have to teach me.

That’s right. That’s right. Well folks, that was an interesting round of questioning for Mountain Mandan and I, the more I think about this, the more it makes me wonder what we were like as kids, you know? What kind of questions did we have? I know we spent a lot of time in the garage under the hoods of cars, and it does remind me of something very, very important, which is, Make your kids part of your life, especially if you’re in the motor sports community, because they are the future.

They are. What’s keeping this going in the year 2049 when hopefully there still are race cars and organizations out there that allow them to go explore, drive, enjoy all the things that we’ve come to know. To [00:26:00] be normal in our corners and disciplines of the Motorsport world. So Clio, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show and asking us some really tough questions and getting to know cars a little bit better.

And hopefully we’ll see a Trackside this year. You are very welcome. And I’d like to show on a little additional tidbit for the listeners out there when it comes to bringing the children involved into our sports and stuff for myself as a kid. Math initially was one of my weak points and fractions were the death of me as a child.

And if you bring a child into the garage and you’ve got your standard sockets sitting there seeing the numbers and actually being able to correlate the numbers to a physical size, that is what allowed me to learn my fractions as a kid, children, Clio’s age, and even younger, that are learning fractions.

In my opinion. That’s a great way to have your kid involved with what you’re doing. And learning at the same time. All right, Clio. Well, if you’re done, we can let you go. It’s almost bedtime. Anyway, [00:27:00] thank you for having me. Pleasure to see you, Clio. Pleasure to see you.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call our text at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief gt motorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.[00:28:00]

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newton’s, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Learn More

Clio’s curiosity knows no bounds. “How does an engine work?” she asks. Dan introduces her to the “suck, squeeze, bang, pop” cycle of internal combustion, breaking down each phase with clarity and enthusiasm. He even explains combustion and flashpoints, making the science behind engine power accessible and fun.

“Can cars survive crashes?” Clio wonders. Dan walks her through crash testing, safety ratings, and the repairability of vehicles post-accident. He highlights how older cars, built with heavier metals, might fare better in certain scenarios than their modern, plastic-laden counterparts.

Electricity gets its moment too. Dan explains how both internal combustion and electric vehicles use electricity – from powering lights and radios to driving motors. He breaks down the role of batteries, alternators, and copper coils, painting a vivid picture of how power flows through a car.

Clio wants to know if people still race old-fashioned cars. Dan confirms they do, from vintage open-wheelers to steam-powered tractors. She asks if those cars ever win races, and Dan assures her that in class-specific events, they absolutely do.

The conversation turns to fire safety. Dan explains how older cars, made of heavier metals, might survive fires better than modern ones. But EVs? Their batteries can act as accelerants, making fires harder to control – a challenge modern fire departments are actively tackling.

Clio’s final technical question: “Can cars survive a building collapse?” Dan says it depends – older cars in wooden buildings might survive, but steel-beam structures could crush even the toughest classics.

In a delightful twist, Clio asks her dad a bonus question: “Can steering wheels get dented in a crash?” He explains how older materials were more prone to damage and how modern steering wheels are designed with airbags and safety in mind.

Then Dan flips the script and asks Clio about her favorite car. She picks her mom’s hybrid minivan – because it sounds like a spaceship. Dan uses the moment to explain what a hybrid is, and Clio impresses everyone with her understanding.

She shares her favorite part of going to the racetrack: the sounds. She loves identifying cars by their colors and engine notes, and she’s even learning to recognize logos—though she admits she just looks at the shapes, not the words.

As the episode winds down, Dan and Clio reflect on the importance of involving kids in motorsports. Dan shares how working with tools helped him understand fractions as a child, and he encourages parents to bring their kids into the garage – not just to bond, but to learn.

Clio’s curiosity, humor, and sharp observations remind us that the next generation of car lovers is already here. And if this episode proves anything, it’s that even the most complex automotive concepts can be explained with a little patience, a lot of heart, and a whole lot of fun.

We want to thank Clio for coming up with these awesome questions and making us think about how we can boil them down and make understandable answers for up-and-coming vehicle enthusiasts to get excited about the things we’re most passionate about… cars!

Remember… in order to keep our hobby and motorsports alive, get your kids involved as early as you can. They’re the next generation of Petrol-heads!

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

From Sofa to Starting Grid: How Garage Heroes in Training Is Democratizing Grassroots Racing

Gran T

August 23, 2022

From Sofa to Starting Grid: How Garage Heroes in Training Is Democratizing Grassroots Racing

What if the path to motorsports didn’t begin with a trust fund or a factory ride—but with a $500 car, a podcast, and a whole lot of humility?

That’s the ethos behind Garage Heroes in Training, the amateur endurance racing team and podcast duo of Bill and Vicki Fisher. In a recent crossover episode with Break/Fix, the couple shared their origin story, their misadventures, and their mission to make racing accessible to anyone with a dream and a driver’s license.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

It all started with an email invite to a BMW autocross event at Monticello. Bill, ever the strategist, made sure Vicki beat him on the course – though she insists it was legit. That taste of performance driving sparked something deeper, but Monticello’s price tag was a dealbreaker. Enter the Everyone Racers podcast and its tales of $500 Lemons cars. Suddenly, racing didn’t seem so far-fetched.

They bought a used race car from a friendly team, showed up at their first Lemons event, and were instantly hooked. “We found our tribe,” Bill said. Volleyball was out, knees were shot, but motorsports? That was the new frontier.

Spotlight

From the great halls of their house. There are assembled three, who hope to one day be, the world’s greatest driving heroes. Created from the cosmic legends of the universe, comes our team Captain, The Vision, Bill Fischer. Their soon to be Wonder Woman, Vicki Fischer. Our Captain Marvel and head flight trainee, Jennifer Skripchuk. And our Batman – the master of tools, gadgets, and all things mechanical. Our mild-mannered soon to be billionaire Alan Danvers. Their mission: to fight injustice, share what is right and wrong, to get you out of your house and come out racing with them and serve all mankind. They are the Garage Heroes in Training team.

Bill Fischer –Leader of this motley crew. Raced some when younger, not young any more. First car 1984 Firebird. Best/Favorite car: 2019 Mini Cooper JCW. Worst Car: tie 1974 Granada or 2009 Corolla S. Team nickname: TBD/The Vision Podcast

Vicki Fischer – Solid driver and obviously tolerant of our group craziness. As a self professed “car is a car is a car” girl, she has come a long, long way. She even agreed to be a co-host of our podcast. First car 1974 Pinto. Best/Favorite car: 2015 GTI. Worst Car: seriously? the Pinto. Team nickname: The Bulldozer Podcast

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, hosts Brad and Eric welcome Bill and Vicki Fisher, the hosts of ‘Garage Heroes in Training.’ The Fishers discuss their journey as an amateur endurance auto racing team, sharing insights and advice for aspiring racers. They recount their experiences with various racing series, emphasize the importance of organization and preparation, and offer tips on how to get started in motorsports. The episode also touches on their podcast’s origins, format, and notable guests. Additionally, they discuss future goals for both their racing team and podcast.

Origin Story: Who/What/When/Where/How was Garage Heroes in Training formed? What’s it all about?
We noted from some of the pics on the website, looks like you’re Blue Oval fans? There’s a foxbody, and more importantly, a proper-CAPRI (not that rebadged nonsense from the ‘80s) in the mix. Why Fords? And how are they working out for you?
Successes/Failures in the enduro series you run? (LeMons most, Lucky Dog second most, AER just started, others upcoming– which?) Can we talk about the differences in the series, which to do like better/worse/why?
Like our show format, it looks like you guys have different sub-arcs to the show, it’s not all just wrench-turning and mishaps.
What are some future goals for the race team, and for the show?

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motor sports related.

Let’s set the scene. You, our loyal listener, are interested in learning to be a better driver and maybe even have aspirations of racing. However, you know virtually nothing about performance driving and motorsports. Well, tonight’s guests are an amateur endurance auto racing team hoping to show everyone that they too can participate in performance driving and racing.

They’re a relatively new team and are sharing their experiences of dos and don’ts with you. That’s right Brad. And some of you might recognize our guests from their super Friends inspired intro where The Vision and Soon to Be Wonder Woman Host Garage Heroes in Training a podcast which has recently eclipsed 300 episodes and covers all forms of racing, and as they say, hopes to be entertaining as well as educational.

So without further ado, we are honored to welcome [00:01:00] Bill and his beautiful bride, Vicki Fisher, hosts of Garage Heroes and Training to Break Fix Crossover part one. I’m expected to hear my husband. Welcome to Garage, take 423. It’s gonna be a long night. Quickest way to get your episode count up. You just have 15 intros and call it an episode.

Well, sounds like we know what we’re doing. Good thing not to fake. Great. Good to be here. So I’m looking at your podcast. I found it and I’m like sitting there going, this podcast is pretty good. So then I go and I, I’m looking through it and all of a sudden I’m gonna take that as a comp. I’m gonna take that as a compliment, by the way.

Yeah, well it should be. And you know, I’m looking at the podcast and all of a sudden I’m like, how is this podcast? Like 1027? I’m like, why didn’t I find this thing before? And then I realized it’s not one comma. Oh two seven. It’s 1 0 2 7. I think it was season one maybe. So I realized that A, I can’t read and I’m an idiot, and b, I hadn’t missed a thousand plus [00:02:00] podcasts of yours.

And I’m like, on, how did I miss a thousand podcasts? Cause I do a search every few weeks looking for automotive and racing related podcasts. And I’m like, a, how have we not met these guys at the track? And B, how did I miss a thousand episodes of a podcast? So anyway, you wanna know the Secret, but this is like a VIN number.

First number is the season number, the second digit specifies, whether it’s a main episode, a drive through episode, a special episode, whatever. And then the last two digits are the actual episode number. So there you go. See, we were grossly, uh, guesstimating our skills. So we went with GHI for the normal episodes.

We went with DWD for Dominated with Dawson, and then we have the W episodes, the way of our topic episodes. And then we purposely put in a four digit episode code. Like we’re gonna be here for at least, you know, A thousand episodes. Absolutely. We never thought we would be, but now we’re like a third of the way, the episode.

So I’m gonna, I’m gonna put you on the finish spot. I’m gonna put you on the spot. Favorite episode so far of break fix episodes So far, the [00:03:00] one that stick out for me are always the news ones because you guys don’t just do the normal news. There’s always something in there that’s like new news. Exactly, that would be the one.

It’s just generically, you guys always find something and I’m like, I didn’t know that. And I listened to several podcasts cause I listen at double speed or triple speed. So I, I go through them pretty quick. I must sound like Alvin and the chip mics then. Cause I talk pretty, it’s, you’re not the worst.

There’s a couple podcasts that I actually can’t do it to us. I can’t listen to him when he, I can’t be in the car when he does it. It’s hard. I had to put headphones on. It just gets my brain. I’ve got stuff to do. Well, we’ll relay the message to Tanya because she is the executive co-producer as we call her, of the drive-through.

She takes a lot of pride in putting those episodes together, especially those Florida man stories. I mean, I don’t know. She gets them from, and by the way, If you watch the behind the scenes uhhuh, we never get to see the Florida man stories until the moment we record it. Cause she wants that reaction and it really was absolutely awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:00] So if you hear me laughing hysterically, it’s not because it’s real. I’m making it up. It’s for real. Just like every break fix episode, we wanna learn about your origin story because as we say, everyone has a story. So let’s talk about the who, what, when, where, and how of, how Garage Heroes in Training was formed.

How it all, how did it all get started? It’s his fault. It’s always my fault. It’s his fault. He started it. I did. So the long story, which you know, we have plenty of tape in the machine, so we should be good. The long story is exactly, we got invited through email to one of the B M W events and it was up at Monticello and it was basically turned into a, uh, a lead follow parade in a small autocross.

And being the wise man that I am, I made sure that she beat me on every single autocross. Oh, don’t, no, no, I beat you. Legit. It was planned. It was planned. Legit, legit, legit. I beat you. Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story. I spin it here. So riding Crut of the wave, I’m like, Hey, why don’t [00:05:00] we join this Monticello?

It looked like a great place. And she’s like, you’re smoking serious crack. That’s way too much money. So then coincidentally, I had started listening to the Everyone Racers podcast and they also have a television show, and it just so happened that they had their lemons adventure when they went to a race in Washington.

And it was a disaster. But the great part of the story is it was a great episode on TV and they said how it was a $500 car and I said, Hey Vicky, this is a $500 car. And she bought it so the door was open, I didn’t go with anything else and said, sure, this is great. And then we started trying to do this and we eventually bought a, a former race car from a a now friend team that races in lemons.

We go to our first race and on the way home I think we were both pretty much hooked. We used to play volleyball together and then we’d go to this and we’re driving home and separately cuz I was towing and she was driving with our daughter. You know, we were talking to each other and it’s like, wow. I think we found our, our tribe.

Cuz you know, my knees gave up on volleyball a while back [00:06:00] and when you get to a certain age, gravity gets higher wherever you stand. I don’t know what happens. It’s just weird away. Bowling was out, tennis was tough. We decided he falling apart. Yeah. You know, I’m a few spare parts away from a, a brand new chassis.

We just found out that it was really great. And then we knew nothing about the sport. We knew nothing about driving. We have videos to prove. We knew nothing about driving. We knew, we knew nothing about not anything. We didn’t have nothing about nothing. Right, nothing. So after our second race, we said this is so much fun and so entertaining and everybody’s so friendly, but it can be a little intimidating to get somebody to start cuz you don’t know the jargon, you don’t know the tools, you, you don’t know what you don’t know.

And the, the fear of the unknown makes it even more intimidating. Why don’t we start documenting what we’re doing and show people that literally anybody can do this? Cuz we went the first race, it was, uh, Vicki, myself, our son and his friend, 18 year old boys, which can only go wrong. And it did, but that’s fine.

You know, the second race, Vicky’s sister’s like, Hey, can I go, those do this [00:07:00] with you. And the team just gradually started to grow and then, you know, we did so well with one car at our first race. How hard can it be? Let’s bring two cars to the second race. So, you know, but a disaster. Yeah. And then we, you know, beat our heads against the wall and did like everybody else, but we started a podcast right after that.

It shows our progression from, you know, zero to hopefully heroes someday. As the logo says, we’re in training, we’ll always be in training and we’re just at a, a little better than just starting training level. We literally documented everything that went right, everything that went wrong, what to do and what not to do.

Yeah. I think that’s what it ended up turning into. It was like, this is what we did and it went horribly wrong. So don’t do this. Every time that we did this, it was like, okay, what did we do wrong? What did we do right. And then what can we do better for the next race? And then it just started to build off of that.

And then we started incorporating our stories. And then it just got really funny for a while. And that’s a common thread across the motor sports community, especially in the grassroots world, like we’re all a part of. I mean, you look at Jim Tramontana [00:08:00] with No Money, Motorsports is a very similar thing, right?

Change in parts in the parking lot of his apartment on his Miata. And that’s grown into another thing. And you see that across the board. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I mean, we all, I guess, suffer silently in a way doing the same things. But when you’re starting out new, it’s extremely difficult to turn to somebody and go, now what do I do next?

How do I even get off the block? So I commend you guys for taking that step to say, look, follow us on this journey, and you know, we’ll show you where we’ve been and where we’re going. Mm-hmm. We were lucky in that we found everyone Racers podcast and we, we wrote a letter, well I wrote a letter to them and I think it had like 27 bullet points and each one had sub bullet points.

So they pick on me constantly about it, but they invited me on and said, Hey, could you represent somebody who’s trying to get into this sport? And I’m like, well, yes, yes I can. Cuz we were, we got along and for some reason they said, Hey, when you go to your race, cuz they live fairly close to us, meet us at the paddock and we’ll kind of shepherd you.

So the generosity of their team, which has been racing for 10 years and has won championships in races and virtually every award in [00:09:00] lemons for them to share that with us, to welcome us into a sport. And we were just some guy who wrote an email, we. Had no way of returning that, but we thought maybe the podcast could do that.

And since that time, we have gotten to a point, and we have done it a few times for some teams and, and taken them on their first ride with us. And we’ve done it a lot for a lot of the drivers that race with us. Almost all of ’em are friends. I don’t think we’ve ever had like a true arrive and drive that we didn’t know.

But we, we invite friends and we try and get people going. And we’ve gotten over, I think the last time I counted it was like 23 drivers into a race with our team. We call them our sister team. We kind of look at them like a 2.0. They kind of do a little bit of a higher level podcast than us, but our podcast is just basically getting you from your sofa to the racetrack.

As it says in the intro, it’s a, it’s a strictly a 1 0 1 and it’s actually harder to do that than when you’re at the racetrack. You start getting into it because, like Bill said, you don’t know the jargon. You don’t know what your buildup is. You don’t even know what your basic necessities are going to be because that’s not really taught.[00:10:00]

I think we actually did like a 10 part series on these are the basics to get you from your sofa to the track. What’s your basics on your car? What’s your basics of your paddock are, what your basics of your garage are. Basic things that you’re gonna need at the track. Basic safety gear, just so you can start your build of your team and get to your first race and have fun.

Mm-hmm. Cuz that’s the, that’s the most important part is, I don’t know that you’ll agree, but the most important part of our sport and the best part of our sport is you don’t have to win to have fun in certain cases with an endurance race, especially winning is being able to start. And finish. I don’t know, man, I gotta dry flat out for that $5 plastic trophy.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Well, you, you come to our team and I will buy you trophies just to get you this mellow out, man. So, you know, there’s, here’s a trophy. Slow down. We got a long way to go. So you mentioned before, I don’t know that it applies to humans in the sense of DC’s ship, right?

Replacing all your [00:11:00] parts to be compatible with sports, but you had a lot of things to choose from. I mean, you could have gone and played chess or, you know, yeah. I don’t know, make, make jigsaw puzzles or something. But why cars? Was there something that was always there lurking in the background about cars that you were interested in?

So I was, I was born at a very young age and in Alabama, I mean, what, what are we talking about here? I was, I was very, very small when I was born. The first job that I can remember, my mom was working at a toy company called Topper Toys, which used to compete with Matchbox and Hot Wheels. That obviously did a great job cuz they no longer exist.

So she would bring home little Topper toy. Hot Wheels. And you know, I had the Johnny Lightning case and that was basically based on Al Unser. So I was a car boy from very young, and I liked cars, but school, family work, things got in the way. So we kind of put things off. And then Vicki and I eventually got to a point where the children were old enough to participate with us, our oldest son and our youngest daughter’s getting there soon.

But they were at an age where they might [00:12:00] become part of it or appreciated, or at least tolerate it. And we had enough time and, uh, stupidity to do this. So we thought we’d give it a run. And, you know, how hard can it be? You know, famous last words. Yeah, yeah. You, you can make it as hard or as easy as you deem to be.

It’s kind of like we were talking to somebody today at work and he’s like, well, how expensive it is. I, well, I’m like, you can race, you know, a 1990s Miata or some other lower price car and your consumables aren’t very high. Or you can race a challenge. Ferrari dedicated full racetrack, so you can basically spend whatever you want to.

But on the low side, there’s, it’s not that bad. It’s like vacation. You can spend as much as you want or as little as you want. You still gotta have a good time. I usually answer that question cheaper than guns, planes, and boats and golf sometimes too. So take sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s so, it’s, it’s really whatever you wanna put in.

Racing is more than willing to take, but you have to control yourself, you know, a spec serious. There’s a limit to how much you can spend essentially, cuz there’s only so much you can do. But I know people who try to [00:13:00] win the spec series and they end up. Buying 10 or 12 motors and taking them apart and measuring everything and keeping the ones that they want and selling the others, that’s not really what we’re doing.

We’re we’re there to challenge ourselves and improve and get better. That’s the other thing we’ve done with the podcast since we started, was not only to get people started, but to help other people who are friends or soon to be friends. Cuz everybody in racing’s a friend, would eventually to get better.

So every episode I always try to have part of the episode where we give you some little, it could be significant or it could be this little nugget, or it could be this little tip, like using electrical tape on a harness to help everything get lined up when you’re putting it in so you can color code things cuz pit stops can suck when you start having to gripp around trying to figure out where’d the harness go.

You know, there’s things like that and little trips and ticks that we’ve picked up over the years doing things or learned from other friends and. Nothing is new, but we can share. And the other thing too is, is about our team. We’re really heavily focused on the journey more than we are on trying to race to get to that win, we bring people along, like Bill said, on that journey.

With that, [00:14:00] we’ve brought people into the sport that have stayed or have been interested in staying. And that’s another thing too, is that Bill especially has always been a way more the merrier. And just come along and enjoy this. We’ve never really been focused about the win, but we’ve been focused on our HPDs, our precision on getting better skid pads than Yeah.

Skid pads, you know, mini autocross. I mean, I, I mean, we would travel 10 hours to go to an h HPD e just so we can experience that track, and then we would, did you do it with or without music during the, the tow, I guess, triple speed podcasts. That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Exactly. I, i out, we have a mind blowing like 12 hour tow to N C M, where basically we could get two radio stations and we opted to turn the radio off.

If anybody knows Brad, we didn’t talk a whole lot for that 12 hour stuff. When we would travel, we would travel with my sister’s rv. We would drive two cars and we would tow the third car [00:15:00] because we would go out as a family, as a team. We would do this and we’d do one away race, you know, from the very eastern tip of Pennsylvania.

We’d go all the way up into Michigan just so we can go experience gingerman. It would always be like smoking the bandit with this troupe because we would all. Be following the trailers and the people that were driving would shoot off and go get food and come back and, you know, everybody’s got radios in their cars and it was, it’s really kind of exciting.

Bill and Vicky, it would be unfair if we didn’t ask you some pit stop questions along the way. So since Bill talked about, you know, his advanced age, I would normally ask our guests, you know, what poster did you have on your wall as a kid? And in this case it’s probably a model, a Ford. So little, little after that, I know exactly what it is.

So I’m good. Oh, I’m ready. Is it, please tell me. Go ahead. What is the car faucet enough? Oh no. Yeah, whatever she was sitting on. I’m a cheerleader. I’m not that old. Thank you very much. I believe she was part of the Mustang two campaign. I’m just saying the malaise era. Fords, right? [00:16:00] There’s Malays there for sure.

It would be from the mid eighties to Ferrari. GTO O Oh was the 2 88. Exactly. I won’t say that it was a single. Picture of a car only on my wall at that time. But, you know, that’s fine for me. I, uh, I actually, uh, your Pinto? Yeah. No, no. Um, no. I’m actually the art girl. When I got in here, I was actually, we were actually doing the artwork on the cars, but I am the tomboy in my family, so it was just an artsy tomboy is what I was, and somehow I just kind of fell into racing with him.

But now I’m training to be the mechanic. So nothing wrong with that. No. You were the one who introduced us to, uh, top gear though. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and my sister are usually, were the ones that work on delivery until, you know, I took a turn into, we need a second mechanic, so I kind of fell into that role.

Richard? Jeremy. Jeremy or James? Who, who would you rather have a beer with? Jeremy. Jeremy or Chris? Oh, from New Top Gear. [00:17:00] Those would be the two for me. Jeremy would be hilarious. I think I would have the most fun talking to Jeremy, honestly. But anyway, I think the most interesting would be May, but I would also feel like, need to take all three please.

But you know, there’s a, there’s a test at the end of it or something. If you’re, you’re with James May, then it takes like 10 hours. Mm-hmm. Jeremy would be the one that gets you in trouble all the time. He’s that guy at the bar. Yeah. We noted from some of the picks on your website that you did not actually choose to race the Ferrari 2 88 gto, but instead you went with the blue ovals.

It looks like there’s a fox body. It’s close, you know, there’s a proper Capri, which is one of Eric’s favorite cars for some God awful reason. None of that rebadged nonsense from the eighties. Okay. Passes a fox body, but continues. So in a sport where everybody’s budget conscience is driving a Miata, Why are you all driving Fords and how are they working out for you?

Well, they’re not, those were early pictures. Those were early pictures, [00:18:00] yeah. See what you’re saying on racetrack? Dead. Dead, yeah. Or Ford owners repaired. Yeah. Very early on, the cars definitely had problems. Mustang still runs. Yeah, it does. It’s rough though. We’ve always had a struggle with the fact that it was a turbo.

The turbo, it was the one year GT turbo, not the s v o. So it was that one year in between. And parts are a bit of a bearer there, but what you’re saying is they run like factory new for Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And our, and our pork capri, just for the age of it, they had these really tiny transmissions. The links would just fall off.

The poor thing, couldn’t even handle the endurance. And people were just not giving them up because they were seven, you know? Was it, what is it? 77? 74? 70, 74. You can’t find the parts for it. And those that did have them were just like, you’re doing what with it? Uh, we don’t think so. So they’re not giving the parts up.

So we were going to do, uh, a full engine swap, transmission swap, rear end swap on the Capri. And we still have all those parts if anybody’s interested in, [00:19:00] in helping and or taking over the project. Cuz it’s above our pay grade at this point. We’re getting there, but it’s really slow to get to that point.

We have everything ready. We have the wiring harness good to go. We have all the parts sitting there mocked up. But, you know, not having ever built engine mounts and other details that we haven’t even gotten to yet. It’s a little past what our skill level is. Yeah. It’s, it’s something we’d like to do, but I just don’t know that we’re ever gonna get there cause we keep breaking the other stuff we use all the time.

So yeah, there’s that. But then we fell into a Chevy S 10. Ooh. Which, which I gotta tell you was the thing is like a Lego. It really is. It’s so easy to work on. We’ve been really successful with it, but we’re pretty much are outgrowing it at this point. So, um, what year? S 10, 2003. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, so it’s a 4.3 liter?

Mm-hmm. Or the four cylinder. Yep. Four, three. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, and the car just runs like a clock. It’s just one of the difficulties we have is not buying the car, but selling the car. So I tended to buy cars and we had to downsize a little bit. So, [00:20:00] have you seen Eric’s driveway? It’s, I might, I might be close.

Yeah. I widened it. It’s helipad size for a reason. I’m just saying, my gosh. It’s, yeah. Instead of getting rid of cars, he just made his driveway bigger. A hundred percent true. Yeah. Instead of getting rid of cars, I got a second hanger at the airport. Yeah. So he legitimately did, but now we’re kind of cleaning house because the problem with hubby here is that there were a lot of recommendations for cars and he was buying all of them.

Yeah. So, so now, um, the Porsche came through and a Porsche is its own beast. I kind of looked at, it was intimidated by just the compactness of the engine area and how that was in there. And I’m like, I just. You have small hands. It’s fine. It’s Hans Small. Hans Tiny Hans. Small Hans. Yes. So we went through some Porsches, we went through some versions of the BMW Miatas.

We had the truck, we had the earlier versions of the cars of [00:21:00] the Ford Mustang and the Caprice settled on the race truck. And now we are into a 1993 Honda, which, ooh, civic. It’s a very cool little car. Now our team has to learn how to drive a front wheel. So yes, our specialty, no. Yeah, so, so I had to, I went out for my first race with it.

I did not get a chance to prep myself with it very well. But I had to keep telling myself when I was driving, when I was going into my apex, was that it is a pull, not a push. And once I had to keep memorizing that it’s a pull, not a push, is what the car is doing with the front end. So I was able to, to get on the gas earlier and not have to worry about spinning out in those certain areas.

There’s two rules to driving a fun wheel drive. Mm-hmm. Lift your foot to turn. And when in doubt, throttle out. That’s right. That’s right. I. Exactly. So that worked perfectly until it snowed about three quarters of an inch in one lap. Yes. When she was on the track and didn’t matter. I’ve actually autocross a couple Hondas from that [00:22:00] generation, and they are fantastic cars.

Unfortunately, in the autocross world, they are subject to the same downfall as Miatas, which means 2 75 square, and they look like little roller skate so they don’t mm-hmm. Handle exactly like the track cars do. That’s, that’s a hundred percent for sure. Mm-hmm. So is that all there is in the fleet right now?

Oh, he’s shaking his head no. No, I just sold my, uh, we’re divesting. Yeah, I just sold my Miata Turbo. It had a fly Miata in it. I was a little sad to see it go, but for that particular vehicle I was pigeonholed with it because it was two street for track and two track for street because sold it to a friend.

Sold it to a friend because of the age. I’m just at that point when I’d rather be in a more comfortable car to go, but I actually have a spec, one that looks exactly like it coming up behind that I’m building next. After I get all these other vehicles outta the way. Bill’s got a E 46 that he just had built.

We haven’t primed it yet. We haven’t had a chance to prime it yet, but that’s in the hangar, ready to go. We have an E [00:23:00] 46 M three for Daley? Yes. And Amiata 2019. And they’re HPDs. And we do those, those are kind of our, our light HPDs. And then we have a essentially a endurance version of a spec E 46 for endurance.

So it’s not technically a spec E 46, but we don’t care about hardware so as long as they let us go on a track, I don’t care. It’s not for like a lemons race. That’s more like a AR type of thing. Yeah. And And then we have the Honda Civic for our lemons car. We have a Honda Fit, which Vicky hates, but that’s okay.

She hasn’t run Sunday Cup yet. Life, which we will be doing. Yeah, shortly. Vicky’s gotta spec me out of coming around cuz she’s about to enter the higher level HPDs and maybe start doing time trials and time attacks doing her h HP three and four. Mostly with NASA Great Lakes. Having a cage car is always in our mind.

Preferred when you get to the higher levels. Mm-hmm. So you peaked my ears when you said fit. So that begs the question B spec racing. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Be spec and Sunday Cup. We’re taking it out. First for the, uh, lemons [00:24:00] rally up in, uh, the fail foliage, which is Boston to Boston, and I’m running it with my mom and my sister.

So that’s Won’t be first though. No. So you guys would probably be the only people to answer this piss stop question with a yes, which is, would you drive a Chevy Spark? It’s got wheels, right? Give anything a shot with wheels. Everybody’s like, why don’t you ride motorcycles? I’m like, because I would like them and I know what I do on a car, so I don’t wanna do a motorcycle.

Oh, that’s, that’s the same reasoning I have. That’s why I’m not allowed on two wheels. Exactly. So what are your successes and failures in the Enduro series you run? In spite of our lack of trying, we actually won a race one time in our class one C class for lemons racing. I don’t know what she’s gonna think her, I know what I think her biggest accomplishments are, but I think the most recent one for me was, uh, working my way to h HPD four and then getting my Ms F level to instruct her certification and, and starting to give back to everybody and, and going out and teaching as many people as I can.

It’s been fun. It’s challenging [00:25:00] cuz I always have one student dedicated for usually an H HPD one. Then we always have friends and teammates there. So I end up doing H HPD one h, HPD two H HPD three, and then driving some of those people in my h HP D four classes. And then at the end of the day, Vicky’s like, why are you so tired?

And I’m just like, so I didn’t get out of a car. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s kind of fun. I don’t know. What’s your accomplishment, miss Vicky? Are you proud of, do you have lots to be proud of? Well, or or biggest, oops moment. You know, biggest learning moment in there. Oh yeah. Ground moments. This is my favorite.

Always make sure that your tires are tightened with their lug nuts. Bill? Yes. Just episode six. Is it 69? 68. 68. Episode 68 on our podcast guys, go listen to it. It’s absolutely hilarious. Bill lost a tire on the race truck, but it ended up in such a fiasco cuz [00:26:00] it wasn’t on the racetrack, it was on the road.

Mm-hmm. And it wasn’t supposed to be on the road and he was trying to sneak it from point A to point B. Oh, I was told it would be fine. No. Yeah, it was less than fun. Yes. That that was short story. It ended up hitting a house after jumping, uh, armco house. Three bushes, a tree. It hit the house, but it didn’t just hit the house.

It hit the house right where the gas meter is and broke the gas meter. And the gas pipe. Oh, and then that was the beginning of the avalanche of incredible. Yes, because they had to. Dig up it up all the way to the street to repair it. Yes. Across the street. And, and for Bill, trying to get out there at like seven o’clock in the morning to kind of sneak this thing from like, into two towns over to a shop without having it registered to be on the road, it ended up having two fire trucks, an ambulance, it end up.

Yeah. And then we actually, the cop came late because he was really angry cuz he hit a deer with his new police car on the way in. So, [00:27:00] and this thing just went on, apparently the gas line was grandfathered in, so they actually had to dig it all the way up to the street to repair it because they went to go turn it off and they couldn’t turn it off because the thing broke off in their hand in the ground.

It was Wow. And actually at the very end of this whole scenario, as my husband keeps trying to call me and I, and I’m not available, To him to talk to me at the very end. He, the cop offered to give him a ride and bill’s like to where? Front seat or back seat. And he calls me at the end of it, he says the, the way that day went, as long as I’m not in a striped suit, I’m good the way he went.

So yeah, it was just an absolute fiasco. We have stories like that in our journey of this whole scenario with cars. I think that was our biggest UPS learning what it takes. What the difference between prepping a car for driving on the road and prepping a [00:28:00] car for a race and after a race twerking the lug nuts is the same, regardless.

Just wanna point that out for our audience. You, yes, yes. True. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That goes back to another problem we had was we had so many people who, none of us knew what we were doing, but we had so many people trying to help. We had to come up with ways, so many hands on the car that we didn’t, the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing that that’s, did you talk the lu nuts?

Of course. I took the lu nuts, but I didn’t know that somebody else had taken a wheel off and then not put. Them all the way on. So we got lots of knock to do. My big oops was the uh, car trailer falling off the hitch when I was driving down the highway. That was a joy. And it was nighttime coming outta New Hampshire all the way down to Eastern Pennsylvania.

I had lost all electricity in the back of the vehicle because it broke the plug. And as I’m sitting on the side of the road, everybody’s like, well, you don’t have the right ball for your truck, because our ball got stolen. And Bill went out and bought a ball for it, but it didn’t fit properly. We didn’t know that.

So it ended up, I hit a bump and the whole thing just, it lifted off the ball and it just starts skidding [00:29:00] behind me on its chains. I’m like, I can’t drive this any further. They’re like, well, we can get you so far. And then the people were still leaving lemons and you know, for the whole repair thing, it was like doing what they could do to help me.

And then my sister out of the blue, just. She’s in a whole different vehicle and she’s been gone. She just kind of pops her head around. She goes, Hey there. And I’m like, what are you doing here? And then of course, my brother-in-law is great at doing electrical work. So he’s sitting there, pulls the whole thing apart, repairs it right there on the side of the road in the dark, right?

And I’m just like, guys are, God said. But I’m sitting there panicking on the side of the road looking at this thing, and she’s like, hi there, what are you doing? And I’m like, God, thank you. It’s like the, you know, a beam of light as I looked at her face, like the sun had come out. Jeff gave you a ball, I think times.

Yeah, he did. But we couldn’t drive it because it was dark and it had no lights on the trailer. And I’m like, I can’t drive this thing without somebody possibly hitting me, or I’m gonna get pulled over constantly as I start going back from, you know, the next 300 [00:30:00] mile, 400 miles. I’m like, you know, what am I gonna do?

And I was like, oh, right. Speaking of trailer incident, knock on wood. Hopefully there’ll never be a third. I’ve had two incidents where, you know, you, you, on a Sunday morning you come back from the hotel and now you know. Mm-hmm. Now we do a lot more camping and you line your truck up with the tongue cuz you’re gonna eventually just hitch up and, you know, load your car or whatever.

Right. Then inevitably something happens, you pop a motor or whatever, and your friends are like, okay, we’ll help you push the car onto the trailer. Yeah. And at the second that the front wheels hit the ramp, somebody goes, wait, did you hook it to the truck and watch it? Oh. Yeah. And slammed down and luckily twice it has not hit my truck and destroyed the back of it.

So Ben Dawson, who does our dominate with Dawson’s with us, he’s a friend that we’ve never actually met in person. He did that, but the trailer stayed tilted and then started rolling. Oh no. Like through the paddock Towards the, towards [00:31:00] your wheels, yeah. Towards the building that was mm-hmm. You know, like, yeah.

Clubhouse. It was awesome. It, it had enough, it was done. Yeah. I think my wins to answer that question would have to be how much I learned in the garage over the last couple years of doing this. I’ve learned that I am a physical worker and not a desk worker. That’s where I find my most joy. I’ve picked up the mechanical stuff really fast and I’ve learned how to do delivery and painting vehicles now.

Just wrapping. Yeah, wrapping cars. Now I’m able to pick up on the mechanical stuff, like really fast. So now we’re working on fabricating and our next project right now is fiberglass. It’s like my happy place right now is in the garage. Like if I get a day off, I get to go down there. It’s like, you know, my mechanics come in in town too, so you know, even better cuz we can really bang the workout and we just.

We have a good time down there. I look forward to those days. You guys mentioned you race in a ton of different series, so can we talk about the differences in the series and which you like [00:32:00] better, worse, and why? I don’t know if we do a ton. We, we’ve done a couple, um, a few more than you. Yeah. So I’ve always had this idea, and I’m an engineer, so sorry, but I, I was gonna plot the fun factor versus the true racer factor.

Mm-hmm. And you can kind of plot the different series. In terms of what they stress and, and what they, what their characters are, right? So like when we started with the HPDs, we spent one year and we just sampled nine or 10 different h HPD groups to find out what we wanted, what was the right blend. And it’s the same thing with the, the racing series.

You can go to a series which is emphasizes the fun and not so much the racing. Or you can get some that are more intermediate on both, or you can get some that are, are very, very serious and very. ProAm racing type series. So you, you kind of gotta realize a couple things where you are in your progression as a driver and where you want to be.

And you may not start in the series you want to race in eventually. And you may get more serious with time or you may get less serious with time. And it just depends on where your [00:33:00] happy spot is cuz there’s different groups within the different series that go across. Cuz you know, sometimes you want to have a, you know, I want to see what we can do.

Weekend and sometimes you just wanna go and have a great weekend with some friends and you can find a series for that. So like lemons is kind of the default, not terribly serious Racing. Still good drivers and a lot of the impressions that people get are from old lemons races when they were kind of a joke.

Safety wasn’t anything but could be probably one of the highest levels, safety serious that they have just due to the cars that they allow. I kind of look at lemons like playing football with your friends on a Sunday. When you were younger, you go out there, you have a good time, and then afterwards you go have some beers and you just, you have fun.

There is, you know, serious play when your guys are playing, but there’s also people that are just, you know, I’m here to hang with my buds. And then you’ve got Champ Car, which is similar types of cars. They’re all car shaped as opposed to lemons. Can get a little fancy with the shapes, a little more serious, probably the same level.

And then the next series up, I, I think I probably put Lucky Dog there, [00:34:00] you know, if we only lived on the West Coast, they’d be like the perfect for us cuz they’re at the perfect balance and to fit our needs of serious racing, good driving and a lot of fun in a paddock. And Kathy runs a great series and, uh, unfortunately they’re mostly on the, the left coast, but whenever she comes East coast, we always do some and we’ve traveled out to race with her a couple times out west.

Next, you probably have something like a R. It’s a little more racy. Better cars tend to go a little faster. Some true race cars, there are some pro teams that are doing their practices there to get some more time and it’s cost effectively and racing’s quite good. Then you probably go with w r L would be above that.

And then imsa, I think I might have left somebody out there. There’s a, there’s a step in between imsa, W R L, that’s for sure. There’s, and that’s a, there’s sro. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep, you’re right. And then of course there’s Grid Life coming. We’re gonna go to our first two events. Mm-hmm. Maybe three events, if rumors are true.

We may go to three events this year, but Grid Life is, uh, been on a list and we, we think we, uh, like to have some fun there with the Sunday Cup and the H hpd. So we’re gonna go out there and, and bring our fit and go. Mm-hmm. Sunday [00:35:00] cupping, get Miss Vicky out there on the track a little bit for that. And then maybe some HPDs, and sometimes we might just go just to, you know, walk around with a microphone and a podcast and get a couple episodes with people we’ve talked to.

Yep. And maybe meet them in person and say hi. Here’s a shirt we owe you stuff for coming on, you know, thank you swag. Exactly. If you ever need a pitch hitter, you know, front wheel drive guy, just let me know. You know? Always all door is open, man. You just gotta let us know, cuz you know, we’re not terribly popular in terms of, you know, if you look at the world, there’s like 8 billion people in.

Most of them don’t listen. You know, with the four seats at erase it, they fill up pretty quick. Especially when, you know, Vicky never gives up one and she’s always looking for the the ladies team. So, you know, sometimes I get the boot, but that’s okay. That’s why I’ll just buy another car. Yeah. We’re actually, this next race we’re going into Njm P we’re putting in an all girls team and second time, yeah, second time.

The first time was quite interesting. I was a team mechanic and I had another girl who was. Savvy with mechanical work. I mean, not great. And the rules were for [00:36:00] our team was that we could ask for diagnosis assistance if we need assistance, but we had to put the hands on our cars, which we got it to about 85%.

Cause sometimes the guys just really wanted to touch a car. I’m like, no, no, no, you can’t touch a car. That’s the rule. But I gotta tell you, my girls, two of ’em, this was their very, this was her very first race and it was whoop whoop boo girl power till seven o’clock. I said, the work starts after dinner because then you gotta prep the car for the next day.

So I was like, this girl power stuff is not working right now. So this new race that we’re coming, they now better understand that we got paddock work to do. They stayed offsite. I, I think both of, you know, staying offsite, You know, after a day of racing, it’s, yeah, it’s painful. It’s ting come back the next day.

Yeah. And you know what, there were auto crossers, so they didn’t understand that for endurance racing that there’s a series of things that you must do in the evening to prep your car for the next day, especially if things weren’t going right. And of course at that point I had thrown all the shims in the, the driver’s side, so we had to go ahead and lay new shims in the car.

Steering shifts. Yeah. So we had some [00:37:00] issues we had to fix, but we got it done. Just like our show in a way. There’s two sides to it, right? There’s two sides to garage HEROs and training. There’s the racing side of this, which we’ve been talking quite extensively about, but I think I wanna circle back and talk about the podcast a little bit more.

Mm-hmm. So like our format, it seems like you guys have a bunch of different sub arcs to the show and maybe not everybody realizes that. And it’s not just about wrench turning and mishaps like we’ve been talking about so far. Why don’t you tell us about the show format itself and maybe some of your more notable guests and special reoccurring episodes and things like that.

And especially now after you guys are celebrating over 300 episodes. We did a, uh, a re-intro of ourselves for 300 episodes just cuz we realized that, you know, it’s been several years since we started and hopefully people don’t go back and listen to our first few episodes cuz you know, they’re. Oh, ours are tragically terrible too.

They’re so bad. They’re so bad. We can’t decide if our first podcast episodes are the worst thing, or our first on track driving videos are worse. We, they’re, they’re very close. Oh, the video. You know, I’ve [00:38:00] seen some shows and I, I’m gonna call them out like Sinister Hood. They took down a lot of their early episodes.

They kept some of the good ones in there, but I’m like, you know what? I’m not embarrassed. Everybody’s gotta start somewhere. And well, you know, I think if you do it in our instance, it gives people like, you know what, there is a starting point and we all were bad at one point. Yeah. There’s a realness to it.

You see the quality change of the quality of the guests change all of that. Right. So, and, and my, uh, comic book collector could not throw out any episodes, you know, cuz you know, I wouldn’t have a complete set. Exactly. Exactly. And what, what’s the trivia question? You’ve only missed one episode, so I’ve got you there.

I have not missed a single episode yet. Well, they, they recorded one while I was on a flight to Hawaii for work. So I just reschedule everything so then they can I know. Well, we didn’t realize we could get ahead so far and, and that that was, uh, episode two. I think so. So we started out prepl in the before times.

Yeah. So back in the day, you know, way back, we were essentially. Documenting our growth as a [00:39:00] team. Eventually we started having infrequent guests and we’re learning how to do podcasts and everything about it. We didn’t really have guests on that much in the beginning anyway. No, maybe, maybe once every couple months during the plague.

We weren’t racing as much as we wanted to. When we rapidly realized, it’s very tough to report on how we’re doing at the racetrack when we’re not going to the racetrack. So we started looking for not even leaving our houses. Yeah, pretty much we started looking for guests to help us and help our audience learn about a topic.

So to get a little better, cuz we had some downtime and we thought we’d, we’d assist with that. And we have questions, so if. We think of a question we somebody else has as well. We’re not that smart. So we’ll go find somebody who can know. So if we know nothing about shock, so we’ll go find somebody. Mm-hmm.

You know, uh, who knows something about that. Or we know nothing about anything. We just, what’s it like to run? We’re just educating ourselves. Right? And hopefully our audience will get better and learn. So then it turned into, it’s kind of a blend right now where we’ll do infrequent episodes about [00:40:00] our team, and we do mostly guests.

The guests, uh, episodes are kind of an intro to the guests with some history, so that. They uh, can be known by our audience cuz some of our audience is brand new and they may not know who Gerard the Stig on American Top Gear. They may not know who he is or some other race drivers or some people that are well known, but you know, we didn’t know.

So we’ll do an intro to kind of get our audience familiar with it. Then we’ll go into the topics, which are kind of be one or two, and then we’ll end an episode with like what we call the fast and furious story time questions, which are like a series of questions that just go on and on and on and ask.

Absolutely stupid little trivia things. Sort of like our pit stop. Exactly. I always wanted to have the episodes have something that would help somebody get better. So we eventually we met. Ben Dawson at one of our podcasts with, uh, Raymar, and we just kind of hit it off and, and he’s a really good driver and he’s also an instructor.

And we said, Hey, would you do a, a segment? We started brainstorming. We’ve ended, ended up coming with, with dominating with Dawson. Cuz the big joke about lemons is always we’re gonna dominate. [00:41:00] So, you know, we thought it was funny and then we were gonna do one of those every episode, but our episodes can go long.

I mean, we’ve gone over three hours. It’s not for the lighthearted. So when you start doing that, and then you start doing a dominated, but Austin, which was originally gonna be like a five or 10 minute thing, but then we start digressing, which is basically the same word if you look in the dictionary under digression.

There’s the word podcast.

So the episode started creeping up to where they were averaging like two and a half hours. So it was like, oh, wait a minute, why don’t we have a normal podcast on Monday? And then we’ll have Dominat with Dawson’s on Tuesday. And then if we have more, if we have a W episode, cuz we’re garage heroes in training named after superheroes.

So we start recruiting movies or pop culture things. So we’ll have, it’s, we love our superhero movie. We had to have the boots. Yeah. So you know, we’re gonna have one coming out on, uh, recent Dr. Strange Multiverse, man, this movie. We’ll have one of those and, uh, you know, we try to tell you in the title what’s coming.

So if you don’t care about Dr. Strange and it says, woo, Dr. Strange, you can skip. [00:42:00] We’ve done as many as eight episodes in a week because we did, uh, one where we followed the a lemons rally, or we were supposed to do one for the, uh, one lap with the Sunday cups. We were trying to get those guys, but we couldn’t track ’em down.

And, you know, schedules. So we’ll do series all the time. We did a GL LTC series with Grid Life. Tried to get as many grid life people on there and see what GL LTC was. Cause that’s kind of like one of those bucket list items for me is to eventually get to where I’m not dead last in grid life for G ltc, that would be nice.

I have the car, I just don’t have the skill. We’ll work on it. Mm-hmm. And then we do our fast and furious questions because we just think they’re fun to figure out a little bit more the person, about the person in general. And they find it fun too because they’re asked, they’re, they’re kind of reliving some of their history on the podcast, which is pretty cool.

You’ll know them soon enough. You too. Yes. Notable guess as I look through your catalog, people like Ross Bentley and Randy Popes and Mike Skeen and others, even on your trivia episode, the 300th episode, part of the questions were, you know, who’s been on the show the most and who was our first [00:43:00] guest, and things like that.

So, quite the list in the catalog of 300 episodes to go back and review and, and hear those interviews. So anybody you wanna give us a sneak peek, maybe a little spoiler or somebody else that’s coming along down the line? Anybody knows us. I mean, come on. I mean, you know, once when we started the podcast, I, I sat there and, and you know, I think Vicki and I talked about our team for weeks trying to figure out what the name is.

And when we started a podcast, I, I sat there and said, looking back after we’re done or have done this podcast for a few years, what would be cool people to have had on the podcast? And, and we’re probably close to halfway through our original list, you know, some of the people who have said yes, were shocked with, and some of the people who we thought, yeah, that would be a nice one to start with.

They, they don’t even respond to us. It really varies. And the, the thing that I find that’s incredibly surprising and satisfying is some of the bigger name people that we’ve had were the easiest and the most welcoming. Like mm-hmm. When you have in training in your [00:44:00] podcast name, the ultimate guest for you would be somebody like Ross Benley.

Right. And we called him up and said, we’d like to celebrate our hundredth episode with you because you know, you’re kind of what we’re trying to do. He’s like, sure. And then he had so much fun. He’s like, he comes on every 50 episodes now. Like every single time. So you know, somebody like Ross who’s, you know, world renowned racing coach, author, great speaker, he’s got more than enough things on his agenda that he doesn’t need to talk to our little podcast.

But every 50 episodes, like Clockwork Ross is on there and he’s pretends to have fun, happy to be, I think he’s happy to be there. You know, he fakes. Sounds like he’s happy. So I think Randy was a guilt trip cuz Randy Post we had on there the first time we were out in a lucky dog race in Portland and he had always wanted to run the car’s.

So Nice. We were renting. Nice. He’s, yeah. And seats dealer, but, um, seats dealer. That’s what he is. I’m a metrics guy. So we figured we’ll let Randy go out in the car and we’ll know what the car can do and then we’ll [00:45:00] see what we do relative to that and we’ll see how much we need to do. But it was a rented car.

It was, it was for four laps That was built in a week? Yes. For four laps and then it blew up. So Randy blew up our car. Not any fault of his, but you know, when Randy’s in a car, he is gonna get the most out of it. So he pushed the car to the limit and we found it just a little bit more. Just so you know, Randy will drive in your car if you ask him, but you better make sure that your car can handle it cuz he will burn your car if you are not careful.

You wanna find a weak spot. Randy’s your guy, he’ll help you with, set up everything. He felt really bad that the car broke cuz we had flown out to Portland for the race. He’s like, is there anything I can do? I said, you know what’d be awesome is if you came on the podcast cuz you know, you’re, one of the, the reason my son’s into racing is Randy, you know, head-to-head is one of my favorite racing shows of all time with him and Jason and uh, Johnny, two guests that have said yet, but haven’t come on yet.

They’re coming. So he came on and it was great. And then I realized in a 45 minutes into the episode that the, um, microphone had, um, disconnected and we had the laptop [00:46:00] sitting on the other side of the room and it was recording through the laptop speaker and there was nothing I could do about it. And I was, oh my God.

But Randy’s such a nice guy. He came on again to do it. You know, he’s been on three times. I think so. And you know, that’s actually a great segue in the fact that prepping for a podcast and doing all that post work isn’t too different than the prep and paddock work that it takes mm-hmm. When we’re at the racetrack.

What are some tips and tricks, things you guys have learned over the years that would be beneficial to somebody that’s. First starting out, getting into this hobby. There’s so many things that you have to do to run a race team and to run a race weekend. Could be an H P D weekend, could be a racing weekend, could be anything.

You’re going to forget something, and nothing drives me bad here than forgetting something and then needing it through. Lots of pain on my part. Mentally. Self-inflicted pain, we have checklists for everything. I have a checklist for an H HPD weekend. I have a checklist for packing for a race [00:47:00] weekend. I have packing lists for the toolboxes that we have.

We have packing lists for the trailer. We have packing lists for the paddock and all the food prep. We have lists for each night, what we do to the car to prep for the next day. We have whiteboard for scheduling the weekend. With mm-hmm. Things that we need now we call it the runner. Somebody has to go out and get us apart or go out and get us brake clean.

I think Alan lives on brake clean. He goes through brake clean, like it’s nobody’s business. We get our driving order. We know who’s gonna do radios. We know who’s gonna do the primary mechanic. We know who’s gonna do all the different steps that are a part of the team who’s gotta prep lunches and dinners and, and then organization.

Exactly. I mean, he said he was an engineer. Are you sure you’re not in the aviation industry? I mean, do you have a checklist for checklist? It might as well be a nasa, I mean, you, you don’t subscribe to the whole, just run it until it breaks and then you know what’s broken. You can, the most expensive race you have is the one where it breaks on the first lap dollars per mile.

You, you didn’t do very [00:48:00] well that weekend, so, you know, we aren’t, but how many smiles were in that mile though? Exactly. Well, it’s only one driver. Well, there’s only one. Only one driver don’t concern ourselves terribly with how the race works out, especially endurance racing. And we don’t care about winning the H P D fastest lap.

True. But we do care about the amount of time and energy and prep that we’ve done to be ready to get the maximum enjoyment out of it. And you know, the biggest thing we had when I went to our first race even, was I wanted to make sure that everybody got in the car. And then once we did that, the rest of it was easy.

I do do a lot of work with nasa, so you know, I’ve stolen things from them. And we share our lists with everybody. If you find something better or if you find something that’s missing, just let us know and we’d love to update our list. I think I’m on, it’s either version 56 or 57. He’s got master lists and But they work the, if you use them, the structure of the team is that Bill is our organizer and team leader.

He will go into the garage and do a couple things, but Bill’s tendency is [00:49:00] to, I always tell him, I says, you bring a sledgehammer when you need a screwdriver. You’re just that kind of guy. Faster, him doing the higher level for our team, which is the ordering, the parts, the structure, the organization. I mean, our tool cabinets literally have slots for our tools.

So we know when something’s missing at the track. You lose stuff at the track. You’re right, regardless, you’re still gonna never find your 10 millimeter socket of what We have so many 10 millimeter sockets. So in each, in each tool cabinet, we have four tens and twelves. 10. 10 millimeter sockets in each size drive, so we won’t have that problem.

And we have spares on the side. He was always the document person on our team, and I was always the paddock girl or the garage girl. He was supposed to be doing cars and whatnot, but somehow our roles got flipped. So now he’s got my job and I have the job that he was intended for, and I think we’re happier that way.

But he’s very good at what he does and he keeps our team moving forward. And because he’s [00:50:00] a, he’s basically being the engineer, he’s a systems person, he relies on systems. Our garage now has functioned to constantly make things easier or better or more efficient. That’s how he operates with us. And we don’t forget anything.

Ever the call, except when, right. Right. And then you gotta run to the hardware, you gotta run to the store, you gotta run out to the auto store. We’ll drive back to Scranton. Yeah. And come get it. And then go back to pit race. That sucked but happens. Yeah. But yeah, he’s, he’s really good at what he does. I do have to say.

But tips are I would have to say or lists, uh, I don’t know. Do we have them on our website? Are they available or can they be? We do. It might be like a, an earlier version, like 30 something. I don’t know when the last time I updated it is. Even when it comes to checking your car before you get it to tech, basic stuff you need to do on your car.

So, um, a story for the winner. Those really help. And even how to pack a paddock, like I said, just organization. Organization, if you can be organized at your race, you’ll have a much better race. And that includes [00:51:00] paddock, that includes, you know, making sure that your team is properly fed and hydrated because they will be happier people if they don’t have to go running around trying to find food or trying to figure out where their next meal is gonna come from or who they can bum it off or somebody’s gonna run out and go grab a pizza at a game is stronger than our driving game.

Always has to. Yeah, we have a very strong paddock game right now, so come eat with us the next time we’re at the same. Yeah. But yeah, definitely organization is strong. Has to be strong. I mean that’s half the battle. You can be one of the slower cars, especially if you start talking endurance racing with classes you can be.

Easily one of the slowest, if not the slowest, and still win the race. Just cuz your car just keeps going round and round. Speaking of the slowest cars. Yep. We’re right here ma’am. What should, what should I buy question. What should I buy as the starter track car? Let’s answer to this with the two different cars.

Let’s say one option is an h hp d e car. Oh, okay. And the other is, uh, a race car for a e r, not lemons because you can go [00:52:00] out and get a, uh, Chevy Malibu and you can run lemons all day long. All day long. Well, no, not in the Chevy Malibu. You won’t run all day long. But that’s, that’s a different story. That’s not your fault.

I would recommend the H P D E car first because I’ve seen people hop into a car that is an a e r car and it might have been more car than they could handle. Unless you have those basic skills, then yes. But our recommendation, I mean, through our trials is that, my opinion if you’re going to buy a car, is to buy one that’s already been built.

And used, and then you can modify, modify it, you know, and make sure it’s easy and affordable. Hondas are good, Miatas are good. They’re simple to work on something that’s not complicated and that already has a roll cage in it and has basically the structures that are already in it. Safety systems tweak.

Yes. Yeah. You can always tweak it and make it your own, but at least when you’re starting out in a race, you really don’t know what those big basics need to be, to not have to worry about the intimidation of starting from scratch. When [00:53:00] you haven’t done this before, it’ll be harder for you to even get to the track unless you have somebody that’s in the know.

So we had a rule when our son was able to get driving and we had a certain prescription for what that car should be. We disagreed on how we got there, but we wanted. 200 horsepower or less ish. We wanted a manual transmission to keep them off the phone. We wanted as much safety as we could afford to buy safety systems.

So we ended up getting him a Toyota 86, which is a great car for him so far, with the training that we did to, to help him learn how to drive, knock on wood, knock on metal, knock on anything. I come fine. No incidents, no accidents, no tickets. Life is good. We told him, you know, go have fun on a track, but on the street people don’t know how to drive.

Take care of yourself. Don’t, don’t die. Something similar, I think would be a proper H B D card to learn, because I don’t care if you drive a hundred thousand miles a year and you as part of your job or you drive just. Back and forth to the grocery store. You may think of yourself as a great driver, and you probably are from a road [00:54:00] perspective, but driving on a road has nothing to do with driving on a track.

Assume it’s like a totally different sport just because the, the utensil you drive is different. So think of a car that’s something along the lines of that you like, 200 ish horsepower. Judge for yourself. Change your brake pads, change your brake fluid, and go have fun. Just make sure it’s safe. A R car.

The car of choice right now seems to be a A BMW E 46. Mm-hmm. Could be some type of Porsche Cain, could be some type of Mazda Miata. It really depends on your budget there. Especially if you’re new. We always recommend buy a car that’s already been built. Mm-hmm. People sell them. It’s not that they’re bad, it’s that they chose to do something else or they chose to get out of the sport, or they graduated and went to a higher level.

Higher they have run their car D Different class. Yeah. Different class. You know, I want to go run a spec series. There’s nothing wrong with running a spec series car and you find out that, you know, you put all this money into a car that doesn’t fit anywhere and you, it’s great for endurance racing, but you wanna go do spec racing and time drops.

Mm-hmm. People just change and. Use what [00:55:00] they’ve done and then modify it. I think that’s the easiest way, especially if you don’t have the experience and expertise to build one from the ground up. And if you’re buying somebody else’s race car, what is the resource of choice for you to find those cars? I’m assuming it would be racing junk.

Let’s bring a trailer. Bring a trailer. Didn’t you know that? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Because I’m gonna spend $450,000 on my Acura Integra type R My favorite place to go is Vicky doesn’t know.com. And I thought it was Take all my money.com. Isn’t that the other one? The inner debt and, and then you pay for the cars that, uh, Vicky doesn’t know this bank account.

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve had cars show up on trailers and I did not know they were arriving. And she was less than pleased. I was less than pleased. Yes. I’m still paying for one of them right now. Not, no, not enough fiscal sense, by the way. Just, just in case that wasn’t, that wasn’t clear. Bathtub is getting, Awfully awfully lonely.

Um, as I sleep in there racing, junk’s a great [00:56:00] one. If you are fortunate enough to know people who are involved, just letting them know, Hey, I’m looking for, uh, you know, something to do in this series, or something to do in that series, or, or, I’m looking to just get into it. And it’s amazing what you can find by word of mouth.

We have friends who race with us and you know, I was saying, we’re probably gonna get rid of Vicky’s car. And they, they helped us by finding somebody else that we knew that was looking for a car for them and their daughter to learn on and for him to have fun in. Facebook marketplace isn’t a, isn’t a terrible place either, especially if it’s like spec E 36 spec, E 46 Spec Miata, things like that.

Spec cars are one of the few race cars that the pricing doesn’t seem to go down. You can get your money in and your money out and not take a bath. Building a car, you tend to way overspend what the end value is, so let somebody else do that. It’s not as much fun and maybe not as cool to some, but if you’re trying to be fiscally responsible, which using that word in racing is kind of funny.

If you try, you know how to make a [00:57:00] fortune in racing. Right, exactly. Start with a bigger one. Yeah, with you there. You know, that’s the best plan. Usually we’re dealing with people who are fairly new and fairly early in their career. That is somebody we wouldn’t recommend. Build your own. We’d recommend get one.

Maybe your second car or third car. Don’t do what we did. So I think I would dovetail off that there’s a couple things. Racing junk is a great place to start. However, asterisk caveat, make sure that whatever you buy off of there, whether it’s a spec car or not, comes with a log book because a car with a log book is worth its weight in gold.

You can get into different series. If you decide you don’t wanna do endurance racing and you want to go to NASA club racing or S E C A or something else, the car’s already certified right after that point. You just gotta follow the rest of the rules and go from there. Mm-hmm. I think I would diverge a little bit from the build versus buy.

I’ve always attested to build because I grew up in a household where we swapped a lot of cars. We did a lot of crazy projects. We’ve had cars and magazines, [00:58:00] stuff like that. So I find those projects to be a lot of fun, and I take a lot of pride in what I’ve built. So I know there’s a. There’s a lot of petrolheads out there that are into that, and I don’t want dissuade them.

I don’t wanna say yay. Oh, no, no. But understand it’s a, if you’re a petro head, then definitely if you have the skills to do it, you can do that. You might be spending more to do it than what the car is worth, like Bill said. But if you enjoy doing it and you have skills on doing that, then yes. But I mean, our audience are people that are just like literally on the sofa and they don’t know anything.

I got you. I got you. You know, I was, and that’s what I’m saying for those people, you know, don’t try to start from scratch if you don’t have what you need. Hey, comma, asterisk, caveat on that one is though, if you are going to build something, take the time, and I know it’s a cure to insomnia, but read something like the Global Competition Rules from S E C A and look at a class that your car fits in and build to the spec.

Save yourself the money [00:59:00] and the time that you’re gonna waste like I have over the years, proving that certain parts are great for the street and not for the track. And then eventually I should have just read the manual, right? R T F M. So it’s really important that these sanctioning guidelines exist so you can build towards them and still have your.

You know, reliant Robin Spec car that you wanna build. If that’s what gets you up in the morning, you can still spend the money. You can still have a lot of fun building, but make sure that you’re building towards a goal. And if your goal is to go racing and not just a flashy de car or something like that, Make sure you’re building towards a spec of some sort or some sort of class.

And I’d like to recommend one more thing. Go to a racetrack and go visit first, so you actually can see what people have done to their cars. What’s inside the cars? Ask questions. People are so friendly at the racetrack. You can walk into a paddock and ask a question probably more so not during the race when it’s actually happening, unless it’s a stalled [01:00:00] paddock.

But definitely after the race, they are the nicest people and they will answer any questions that you have. Take pictures so much like we talked about driving and driving on a track as different sports. When you say people who work on cars, the work on cars and the work on a race car and prepping car are very different.

Mm-hmm. So be very careful that you’re not trying to do more than your skills would allow. Like just because you do your handy maintenance and stuff, that doesn’t mean you can build a roll cage. You’ve gotta be careful with what you’re trying to do. And sometimes, especially with the safety related items, look to either.

A professional organization or a professional service center that will do that work for you or a very competent team that you trust because you’re literally trusting your lives and your family’s lives and your friends’ lives in that system. So those are things you gotta be careful of. And the first car, to me, even if you are very mechanical with lots of experience, I would still lean towards first car, buy a car.

And [01:01:00] that’s not diminishing the interest or the skill that you may have, but you learn a lot just by doing and trying it and seeing like, oh wow, that this car, the, uh, cage, the bar and the door comes way too far down and way too far in. And I hit my head whenever I get in and I can’t get my luxurious mammal friend who’s on my team to get in and out of the car easily.

And if there’s something goes wrong, he’s gonna be very slow, or the seat doesn’t go far enough forward for my beautiful bride. You’ll see things and you’ll learn things and as you learn things, then that second car I think would be easier, especially if you are mechanical, cause you’re gonna constantly tweak that first car.

Or you may start over with scratch. We bought the Honda, it was fully caged race prepared, raced in NASA’s sprint race. We converted it to an endurance race and then we found out that we didn’t like certain things about it. We took the entire cage out and built a new cage. It wasn’t what we wanted. We wanted to be what we view as proper.

So as we get close to wrapping up our segment here, bill and Vicky, I think we gotta hit you with a couple more pit stop questions. And I think it would be unfair not to ask you guys one of our classics, which is, [01:02:00] and don’t answer at the same time. The sexiest car of all time, alpha Rome. She won’t name a model.

She won’t. No. You know what? Jerks not her thing. No. Pretty red one. No, no, no. Not, no, I’m sorry. The Aston Martin. I always like the old Aston Martins. Like James. James Fond Aston Martins. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. DB five s. Okay. Yeah. I don’t know model names or anything like that, but I’ve always thought that they were just like, well, you can go with animal, mineral vegetable, or, you know, it’s, yeah.

She can draw it. She can draw it for you. Not a problem. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. But you know, she doesn’t know the word. We have a segment in Dominat with Dawson sometimes We have what we call the one oh one jargon segments. And Vicky is the entire reason why we have it. I don’t know my jargon and it’s some acronym I’m still learning.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. I, I’m not from a car background. Nope. So how about we expanded for Bill? Mm-hmm. Since, you know mm-hmm. Probably more models than I do. And, and take that as a compliment. Take that as a compliment. We’re gonna give you the three car garage question, or the [01:03:00] million dollar person question.

Mm-hmm. So in your three car garage, what would you park in it? Do I have a budget? Uh, no. That’s why it’s the million dollar person question. You spend whatever you want. I’m at three and a half just to start, cuz I’m gonna get my Ferrari gto o going cuz you know, I’d rather have one of those. Wow. So taco truck?

No, that’s Jennifer. We do this question a little differently and you’ll be subjected to ours. Don’t worry, it’s coming. I think what I would do is I would get some type of retro mod 77 trans am. So I still look smoking the bandit on the outside, but it actually drives well and has acceleration. That would be a unique situation for that car.

Ah, let’s see what else I, I’ve done, I’ve done that. I, I drove a 400 horsepower one. I still leave it on the list of Never drive your Euros. Oh, no. See we had a, we had a 75 Camaro in the family. I was too young to drive it, but that was fun. I don’t necessarily want the horsepower. I have a self-imposed limit for track cars.

Like I don’t really care about going fast. Like the car that came to [01:04:00] mind was, I wanna get a McLaren F1 in these three cars, but it’s so fast you can’t really get to the limit until you’re going really fast. As opposed to, I drive a anem out of 2019 and the limits are much lower and the fit’s gonna be even more lower.

Recently we had a M two 40 I B M W, great car accelerated, well turbo. No problem. Tons of power, but I couldn’t really have fun in it and not worry about going to jail. So there’s a limit in, you know, street car versus race car kind of thing. Anyway, I gotta pick another car, don’t I? Hmm. Yeah. Um, and we’ve had some really cre and, and as you guys know, fans of the show, we’ve had some really creative answers over the years mm-hmm.

As to what people are shoving into this garage mm-hmm. And how the garage is configured and is it on an island and, you know, all sorts of fun stuff. Let’s, let’s go with bay. Think Vicky would, Vicky would love to have the Capri done the way we had scheduled. We just don’t have the skills to do it. I think that would be fun for her.

Mm-hmm. Beautiful car, by the way, I love those things. European Mustang, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. I think like every [01:05:00] person who’s in the cars, it’s gonna change every day. And right now the one that that’s intriguing me is a, a race prepped, classic. Mini, original body or new body. Yeah, no, the old ones.

I think that would be a ton of fun. Those cars can embarrass some pretty good hardware out there on the racetrack, so that’d be kind of fun. And I give you your front wheel drive cuz you are gonna have to come out there and make sure it’s right for me. So I need your help. Hey, any, any day of the week, it would be unfair not to ask you guys your opinion on what we call the evolution.

So what do we think about EVs and EVs at the track and just electric vehicles in general? I think they’re coming along. I think they’re gonna be able to keep up, but I just don’t think that they will be able to sustain. I mean, I’ve seen people run them. I think there’s just been a couple, but I don’t know how they would manage an endurance race.

No hot swapping of batteries yet. I’ve coached in a couple Teslas, so I have opinions about them too. Mm-hmm. But Bill, what do you think? I like light cars. I typically like light and small cars. Do you have a lotus tattoo that we don’t know about or I would, I would really, I really want to drive a lotus. I haven’t done that yet.

I’m, [01:06:00] I’m waiting for a student to have a lotus, so if any students wanna come my way and request me, you know why you would do that? I have no idea, but I’ll definitely take that. If I can get my, uh, mutant head and helmet into your car, I’d love to get in there cuz. Double XL helmet man. Too much brain. I’m six four and over 300 pounds and I’ve driven a lotus.

So you, you’ll fit. Okay. Sounds great. And that’s Brad’s rule. If he fits, he sits. He drives. That’s, that works for me. So right now we’ve got a weight issue in my mind for EVs. Acceleration is not the problem. Trying to figure out how much trouble I wanna get myself into. The environmental impact of an EV is in some cases misrepresented and misunderstood.

If you look at a lot of the situation, and I know that while California is leading the charge for EVs, they can’t even keep their air conditioners on in the summertime. So what are they gonna do when everybody’s got a EV car and charging and powers off? But you know, that’s California. In racing, it’s probably tremendous for drag [01:07:00] racing, probably.

Okay. For sprint racing, endurance racing is gonna be a challenge. Your energy density per mass is quite a challenge unless you’re doing hot swaps. But then you’re also basically gonna have a. A large generator in order to, to recharge your batteries if you’re doing a nurse race, so are you really an EV or are you just a big diesel?

So there’s some challenges there. Liking small light cars, an EV is not in my horizon. I think it’s probably a tremendous commuter car, city car. But in the US if you’re not in the east coast or west coast densely populated area, it can be a challenge because everybody’s like, oh, the, the average commute is two or three miles or 10 miles or 20 minutes or it depends on who reports it.

Right? Average is far from normal. You get a lot of people who, their commute is literally the New York City. Their commute is to walk to the subway and take the subway. So is that commute like 30 feet maybe? I don’t know how they’re copulating average. So I know that I drive way too much right now for a current EV to be practical in, in our life.

Vicky could probably get away with it cuz she doesn’t travel as much for work. But I drive to [01:08:00] Huntsville, Alabama from Scranton, Pennsylvania. Yeah, I’m kind of silly, but don’t know that it fits our lifestyle at this point. And it’s not a matter of. Range. It’s a matter of recharge and the, the recharge to me is more important than the range.

Cuz I can handle a car that gets 200 miles in a gas tank and it takes me five minutes to fill it up. But if it’s even 300 miles and it takes me 45 minutes, that that trip to Huntsville is gonna get really painful. Let me ask you this. Just if you put all that stuff aside, is there an EV though that has caught your attention?

Then maybe you’re keeping an eye on that. If they get the formula right, you would consider crossing that threshold. Admittedly, I have looked at the original Tesla roasters, which their pricing has started to get a little crazy, but everything right now is crazy. I think I would be tempted with some of the hybrid sports CARSs, but there’s no EVs right now that interest me.

She likes I pass. She likes the white ones. Yeah, I pass. Listen, listen, I don’t have car knowledge like that. I just don’t now, you know, put me in MoMA. In New York City, I can start telling you all [01:09:00] about not the steering wheel, she’s talking about the Museum of Modern Art. So Yes. Can I, can I can, I can walk you through that.

But you know, when it comes to car history and I just don’t have that knowledge comes with I will. It does, it does. And my, and a couple of coffee table books will really help. I’m telling you. Yeah. Well I’m, I’m a, I’m like officially two years like heavily into this. I have a ways to go. I’m the biggest frustration.

Sue. Yeah. Biggest frustration I have is, you know, when she needs to get a new car and I ask her what she wants, she gives me lots of criteria and none of them are useful. It’s just like, it’s gotta be able to fit the dog. And then, you know, every now and then we go skiing so we have to be able to pack everything.

And I’m like, we go skiing like once every two years. So to re to Rey that problem, we approached one vehicle purchase the same way you were talking about prepping for the track, it was spreadsheets and calculations and how much cargo space and people room and all this kind of crazy stuff. And it got to the point where I satisfied all the requirements that my wife needed.

And then I finally said, just walk up and down the aisles at CarMax and point at [01:10:00] something and then we’ll go from there. You know what car has the most interior space that you could ever ask for? The one that you rent when you actually need that much space. Like pick your monster, s u v and you can fit as many people as you want in there.

You can fit more people than we know in there. And I don’t have to drive it every single day. It’s fantastic. So let’s transition. What are some future goals for the race team and the podcast? Like where, where are you all going with this? Are you gonna lose the end training at some point? No, we’re never gonna lose the end training.

We will. Don’t think anybody ever does training. I mean, I don’t think any driver should ever. Think that they’ve mm-hmm. I’ve yet to meet anybody, including everybody on our team, who got out after one lap or one stint and said, yep. Nailed it. Right. Didn’t miss a thing. Every apex dead on. That’s all there is.

You know, maybe Randy Post, but not us. And, uh, you know, Randy’s still training and learning and, and trying, so, you know, if he’s still going [01:11:00] at it. Mm-hmm. I know I need to. Where do we see the podcast going? Well, right now we see it going episode 3 34. Yeah, it’s the next one. Yeah. I’m kind of an in the moment guy.

We have general goals, but mm-hmm. Nothing really metric related. We, we wanna help people. The more people we help, the, the happier we are. I think for our podcast, I’d like to kind of steer up a little bit back to our team and see, because we haven’t had a really good chance to expand on the growth that we have.

We haven’t done that in a while. I’d like to revisit that, but great guests learning with the podcast and, you know, just keep it going. It’s a great way to make friends and, you know, out on the track and they come, it’s like, Hey, garage cheers and training. And they start talking and, and it’s like, whoa.

Like, People are starting to know us. You know, it, it’s, it’s kind of weird. It’s crazy. What about your driving though? I would like to get to level four into Great Lakes for sure. With the racing, I mean, I like to do some more lucky dogs. I like to kind of dance. I’m, listen, I’m not gonna be, that person’s gonna go grab a trophy out of, with some kind [01:12:00] of money or whatever gets sponsors.

It’s not gonna happen. It’s not the goal. I think to send information to garages and training gmail.com though, if you’re interested in being dumb enough to do it now, we’re just kidding. Yeah, that’s right. So I mean, honestly, my goal is, is to enjoy the racing, try a couple new series, kind of push myself a little bit when I start getting more comfortable in my skillset.

But generally just retire into being an instructor when the time comes. I mean, I mean, what a way to go and just to keep moving is just when you’re just older and just be able to share your skills. So you said something really interesting, retire into being an instructor. It makes it sound like being an instructor is where, you know, race car drivers go to die or something.

I don’t know if they’re retired. No, but boy, what I wanna get to is, it’s actually a great jumping off point for you guys, and as Bill knows, as he’s transitioned to becoming an instructor. Mm-hmm. That in training is even more important. I mean, I’ve been an instructor now for almost a decade and. I never stopped learning.

I learned so many things from my students, more so than I do behind the [01:13:00] wheel because I get on NJ and P or Pit race and the lap is muscle memory. You just do it. You’ve done it the same way forever. Mm-hmm. You know what your optimal lap time is, you’ve got all that stuff down, but it’s when you get in with the student, all hell breaks loose.

Cuz you don’t have control over those variables. You still continue to learn and you still continue to grow as a driver. Well, the thing is too is that when people kind of hit retirement age, they either, no, seriously, I am dead serious. Like I have like an old, you’re 27. No. Yeah, right. As we get older, I’m approaching the generation ahead of me that, you know, I’m watching my parents get older and they’re very like Cadillacs.

Yeah, right. But you know, a body emotion stays in motion and when you start getting older you start going more into isolation. So what a better way to stay moving to be social and to get out and be part of something is to retire into something like that. Very true. Very well said. So I have goals. I have goals for every stint of A H B D E.

So if you wanna know what my goals are, [01:14:00] I will refer to my goal list. We have compete in the NASA Thunder Hill 25. We have G LTC and not be Last would be fantastic. I’d like to be middle. That’d be kind of fun. I’ve got tracks I want to go to. I’ve got different places I want to be. The, the one thing I don’t have is I don’t have the, I want to drive a super fast car.

I don’t care. I’m more than happy. Spec 46 is my self-imposed limit. Everybody keeps saying that’ll change, but it’s not gonna change. So since you brought it up, one final pit stop question. What tracks are still on your bucket list? Anyone? I have we hit some really good tracks. We, we’ve actually hit some very good tracks.

I wanna hit them all right. Now Ozarks comes to mind cuz it’s new. We’re still trying to get to v i r. Yeah, v r number one. We haven’t done it yet. It shocks me when people say that because for us it’s like, we’ve been the v I R A million times or the Glen and you’re like, really? That’s on your bucket list?

I, I know. Offense by the way. I’m just saying. No, we found, we’ve found the Glen. It’s just, yeah. V i r is not raced in most of the series that we’ve raced in. Ah, that makes sense. And a pack of [01:15:00] our friends from racing that race in the south that we meet at periodically at a couple racetracks. That’s their home base.

And of course we have the dominating with Dawson, Ben Dawson. We have yet to meet in person and that’s one of his home tracks. Just to be at v i r would be fun just to catch up with pack of people and try a new racetrack. We, we went to the track and we realized, you know, I’m a natural driver. I’m an excellent driver, this is great.

We go to the track for the first time. We realized, wow, this is not different. This is way different. So then we started realizing, you know, if we do this H B D thing, there’s actually skills that we don’t have. So we started doing the H B D E thing and the first season we did, that was our second season of racing.

We tried all the different H HPDs and the one that we like the best happened to be NASA Great Lakes, which is so inconveniently far for us. The closest one’s, five hours. It just gets worse. And Ncms probably the furthest That’s 15 something hours from our house. Yeah. But I got to try mid Ohio. Oh, that’s true.

That’s true. And we’ve done gingerman with them. We’ve done Audubon, we’ve done Mid Ohio. We’ve done [01:16:00] pretty much all the tracks that they do. Pit race. Sure. The only places that we can go, I, I just did our first a e r race, which was fun. Vicky and Jennifer aren’t quite ready yet. They don’t feel they’re ready.

It’s not whether they’re ready or not, it’s, they don’t feel they’re ready. So there’s very few series that we can race at V I r. But we’re finding more and more h HPDs with the opportunity to go to the v i r. So that’s probably where we’re gonna end up going. It’s been on the list. We had the plague, so that was two years of non-real racing.

You know, hopefully we’re post plague for everybody’s sake. In the world’s sake. That would be fantastic. It’s on our goal for this year. Say it’s probably 50 50, whether we’ll actually pull it off. But, um, we may go there just and not drive, but I’d really like to drive there. That would be fun. Mm-hmm. Don’t go to v i r and not drive.

That’s my number one. I know. That’s the bad thing. Yeah, I didn’t say what drive the car. They’ll quickly move up. If not in your top five, somewhere very close to it is an absolutely amazing lap. Mm-hmm. So, and owned by one of the co-owners of Pit Race, from what I understand or something. There’s some relationship there.

Yeah, really. Race is lovely. I like that. That’s my favorite [01:17:00] current. That’s a great, that’s a great lap as well. So. Mm-hmm. I tend to look outside of the US I’ve been to a lot of tracks myself. I used to cart race all over the country and things like that. And so I always have things in my mind and Brad knows I wanna run at Brands Hatch, right?

Mm-hmm. And something low horsepower, stuff like that. Like there’s some really cool tracks outside of the US that I think are still on my list that I’ll, I’ll get there. You know what I mean? Yeah. They’re all on the list. It’s, you know, the bucket is very large for the number of tracks I want to go to, cuz I, I’d like to try them all and usually once you try it once, you usually wanna do it again.

So, you know, it’s kinda like sushi, right? You try it the first time and it’s just like a totally weird experience. You have to try it the second time cuz you know what you’re doing. You’re going into it. It’s just like a track. You know what you’re doing, you know that, you know, the scariest thing to me was when I didn’t prep the way that I’ve developed into prepping for going to Watkins Glen and I was coming up to a turn and I didn’t know if it was left or a right.

And Watkins Glen is not a good place for that to be happening. I’m very anal about my track prep for new tracks, but the second time is always you don’t the first time don’t, you don’t. You don’t say, yeah. Yeah. [01:18:00] Bill, bill at one point shocking. He caught a really good idea. He went out and he got large three by four foot track maps and he had ’em laminated to where we can actually write on them.

He actually puts ’em on our walls and we can edit our notes on it. Or he can, when he is instructing somebody, he can actually draw it around and make the marks on it. And then, Take our students out. So we’ll either hang them up inside the paddock or we’ll hang them up inside the trailers. But he’s picked up a couple tips and he’s always pushing us forward in training.

So in training. Mm-hmm. So that being said, bill and Vicky, any shoutouts promotions, thank yous. Anything else you’d like to share with our audience that we didn’t cover thus far? We have some discounts that don’t do anything for us, but if people want to use ’em, we’ve got discount for Apex Pro, which is really great entryway, especially into telemetry.

It’s a great system. We had, we had Andrew on, on our previous Andrew’s Awesome. Yeah, yeah. Recently we’re trying out a system from Candelaria on, uh, the Sentinel System, which is a. Incar live video streaming capability with three [01:19:00] cameras and, uh, integrates with your AIM system. So he’s got a discount for that.

The thing that we like to do is really to be a resource where if you’ve got a question, hopefully we’ve had a podcast that will deal with it from either our experience or from an expert’s expertise. Go into it and hopefully solve one of your problems quickly. Like, uh, a lot of times on the internet, you’ll see in Facebook, people are just coming into the sport.

They’ll be like, I hate my radio. It doesn’t work. We always say, go to this episode. We had Sampson on, and they, they just solved all our problems and it was cheap. I mean, it’s so cheap to fix our radios and. Reinventing the wheel and racing can get very expensive. So hopefully we can save you some time and some money be somewhat entertaining.

We try to be entertaining sometimes. I don’t know that we succeed, but, uh, that is the goal and hopefully you’ll get a little better. Mm-hmm. Although we’re in the same circle and, you know, petrolheads of a feather flock together. Right. We’re not really absolutely competing with one another for airtime or for personalities, which is fantastic.

Bigger boat [01:20:00] baby. Yeah, right. That’s right. Well, I look at it as, Is the Japanese philosophy, rising tides lift all ships. Right, exactly. So we’re all doing, we’re all in this together, you know, at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. I like, I like not only the rising tide, but I wanna give everybody a bigger boat. I’m usually the guy with the drill though, putting holes Yeah.

In the hall, right? Yeah. I thought that was my job. We’re, we’re a very, very inclusive team. We are honored to have had Bill and Vicky from Garage Heroes and Training on Break Fix, and we look up to you guys not only for your racing pursuits, but being superheroes in the automotive and Motorsport podcasting scene with over 300 plus episodes for folks to catch up on.

You should not be honored and you should aim much higher than where we’re at. Absolutely.

You can find out more about Garage Heroes and Training by visiting their website, www.garageheroesandtraining.com. Search for their show on all your favorite pod catchers and follow them on social media at. Garage Heroes and training on Instagram and Facebook and Garage [01:21:00] Heroes it on the Twitter and if you’d like to be on their show, you can reach out to Bill and the team at Garage Heroes and training gmail.com.

Thank you for inviting us on though. Absolutely. And you know, obviously it’ll be fun to be on your show where we get to be interviewed because that’s absolutely, for you guys, it’s very different to be on the other, yeah. On the receiving end of this, right. So yeah, a little bit. Yeah, so he is called the Interrogator, so you know, just warning you for when you do come on.

So Very nice. Well, Vicky and Bill, I cannot thank you guys enough for coming on Break Fix and sharing your origin story. And we really do appreciate everything you’re doing for the Motorsports community, for everybody out there that’s looking to get into this sport, into this hobby, getting them up off their couches and into the paddock and behind the seats of race cars or just any other Chevy Malibu that they found at the Hertz a lot.

So that being said, again, thank you for coming on, sharing your story, and we look forward to part two of this [01:22:00] episode when we visit you guys on Garage shares and training. Mm-hmm. Thank you for having us on and, uh, thank, hopefully we, hopefully we didn’t break your podcast and hopefully we fixed it just a little bit.

Thank you so much for having us.

That’s right. Listeners, if you enjoy this episode, be sure to check out our Patreon for a follow on pit stop mini. So, so check that out on www.patreon.com/gt motorsports and get access to all sorts of behind the scenes content from this episode and more. If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.

You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows. You can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief [01:23:00] gt motorsports.org. We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge.

As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, gummy bears, and Monster.

Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, None of this would be possible.[01:24:00]

Bonus Content

Check Out – GHIT & Break/Fix PART 2!

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Learn More

We are honored to have had Bill & Vicki from Garage Heroes in Training on Break/Fix, and we look up to you guys not only for your racing pursuits, but being superheroes in the automotive & motorsports podcasting scene, with over 300+ episodes for folks to catch up on. You can find out more about Garage Heroes In Training by visiting their website, garageheroesintraining.com – search for their show on all your favorite podcatchers, and follow them on social media @garageheroesintraining on IG and FB, and GarageHeroesIT on the Twitter. And if you’d like to be a guest on their show you can reach out to Bill and the team at garageheroesintraining@gmail.com

After their second race, they launched Garage Heroes in Training to document their journey from clueless to competent. The podcast became a living diary of what to do—and more often, what not to do. From misreading VIN-style episode numbers to sharing Florida Man stories on the fly, the show blends education with entertainment.

Their goal? To help others go from sofa to starting grid. They’ve onboarded over 23 new drivers, built a community, and created a 10-part series on racing basics – from paddock prep to safety gear.

The Fleet That Failed (and Flourished)

Early cars included a turbo Mustang and a proper Capri – both plagued by parts scarcity and mechanical woes. “They run like factory-new Fords,” Vicki joked. Eventually, they pivoted to a Chevy S10, which proved reliable and easy to wrench on. But as their skills grew, so did their ambitions. Today, the fleet includes:

A 2003 Chevy S10 (retired soon)
A 1993 Honda Civic (front-wheel drive learning curve)
A Honda Fit (for B-Spec and Sunday Cup)
A spec Miata (in progress)
An endurance-prepped E46
A daily-driven E46 M3
A 2019 Miata for HPDEs

They’ve even divested a turbo Miata that was “too street for track, too track for street.”

Racing for the Journey, Not the Trophy

Garage Heroes in Training isn’t chasing podiums – they’re chasing progress. Bill earned his MSF Level 2 instructor certification and now teaches HPDEs across NASA Great Lakes. Vicki’s moving into HPDE 3 and 4, training as a mechanic, and mastering front-wheel drive dynamics.

Their biggest win? A class victory in Lemons. Their biggest “oops”? A rogue tire that broke a gas meter and summoned two fire trucks, an ambulance, and a street excavation crew. (Episode 68 has the full saga.)

Bill and Vicki embody the grassroots spirit: inclusive, curious, and always learning. Whether it’s towing three cars to Gingerman or debating which Top Gear host they’d grab a beer with, their story proves that motorsports isn’t just for the elite – it’s for anyone willing to try, fail, and laugh along the way.

As Bill says, “Winning is being able to start and finish.” And with Garage Heroes in Training, the journey is the real victory.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

From Heartbreak to Horsepower: Joey Jordan’s 26,000-Mile Vanlife Redemption

Gran T

August 16, 2022

From Heartbreak to Horsepower: Joey Jordan’s 26,000-Mile Vanlife Redemption

When race car driver Joey Jordan stepped away from the track, he wasn’t just leaving behind a career – he was walking away from a childhood dream. Burned out and disillusioned, Joey didn’t board a plane to escape. He climbed into a beat-up, five-and-a-half-foot-wide Toyota Hiace van named Flacco and drove 26,000 miles from California to South America in search of clarity, adventure, and maybe a way back to motorsports.

Joey’s departure from GT racing wasn’t sudden – it was the culmination of years spent chasing podiums, sacrificing relationships, and realizing that the dream didn’t match the reality. “It was like my long walk down the beach after being heartbroken by my childhood dream,” he said. But even as he left racing behind, his love for cars remained. That’s why he chose Flacco (below), a Japanese-imported diesel, manual, four-wheel-drive Hiace van – quirky, narrow, and perfect for blending in across Latin America.

Joey Jordan's Toyota HiAce Flaco — Photo courtesy Joey Jordan IV

Joey didn’t fly to South America. He drove. From Southern California through Mexico, Belize, and Guatemala, Flacco became his home, his companion, and his ticket to freedom. Along the way, he picked up a ragtag crew: an Australian traveler, a German girl, and a Brit – all crammed into the tiny van, sleeping in hammocks, tents, and occasionally five-deep inside Flacco.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

In Mexico, Joey surfed, drank beer, and attended the WRC rally in León, camping with passionate fans and soaking in the spectacle. In Belize, he marveled at propane-powered cars and the Rastafarian-inflected Creole English. In Guatemala, he found himself back behind the wheel of a race car.

Joey Jordan and his Toyota HiAce Flaco in the deep South American jungle — Photo courtesy Joey Jordan IV

Despite his “breakup” with racing, Joey couldn’t resist the lure of the track. Using Facebook and Wikipedia, he tracked down a local race series and talked his way into the Toyota Yaris Cup. “They didn’t really have as many regulations,” he laughed. “It felt like racing in the ’70s.” Mid-pack and beat up by local drivers, Joey still relished the experience – especially the moment when a volcano erupted during pre-grid. “I thought the car was vibrating. Nope. Just a volcano.”

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix podcast delves into the remarkable 26,000-mile journey of SRO TC America driver Joey Jordan, who traveled from California to Patagonia in a Toyota Hiace van named Flacco. The podcast explores Joey’s reasons for leaving GT racing, his decision to drive through South America, and the numerous adventures and misadventures he encountered along the way, including mechanical issues, dealing with customs, being robbed in Colombia, and ultimately finding himself. Joey shares insights on different car cultures across Latin America, the improvisational spirit he observed, and the challenges of overlanding in a foreign land. Despite the harrowing experiences, Joey’s journey allowed him to rediscover his passion for cars and racing, ultimately shaping his future perspective in motorsports.

Propane powered cars in Belize
Racing a Toyota Yaris in Guatemala at the base of a volcano
How he converted his right-hand drive to left-hand drive in Nicaragua to try and fool Costa Rican officials into letting his “illegal” car into the country… and how that got him stranded in no man’s land, stuck in between two countries and then later cost him a stint in a tourist prison
Hanging out with crazy truck drivers in Colombia and Bolivia
His overall love/hate affair with my van; the relationship between car/man.
The Peruvian driving insanity and why order is good… why you should be happy to follow all the “stupid” rules we have on the streets here in America.
Trying to locate car parts in Latin America.
Getting stuck in the Bolivian salt flats
Chile’s roads with extra-grippy asphalt through the surfaces of the corners
How the vibe of culture really comes across in overall driving styles throughout the country and the overall freedom of traveling by car brought him to beautiful places not many “gringos” have seen.

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: With tonight’s guest, we can easily wax poetic about all his Mazda cup and touring car races, but instead we need to focus on an amazing 26. thousand mile journey that SRO TC America driver Joey Jordan and his van Flacco took in order to make his return to motorsports.

I had the pleasure to meet up with Joey at the Porsche Experience Center in Los Angeles, where he works now. But before we get there, we have to rewind and unpack this telenovela filled with stories of man versus machine, love and hate, [00:01:00] and even some South American jail time. So without further ado, welcome to break fix Joey Jordan.

Joey Jordan IV: Thank you, Eric. Thanks for having

Crew Chief Eric: me. This is going to be a lot of fun. So let’s start off by what drove you to leave GT racing and head to South America? What kicked off this whole adventure?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to like nail down exactly why I chose the path to go down to South America. I know why I left racing and it was like a hard decision.

It was my childhood dream to become this race car driver. I just put all my like life energy into it. Pissed off girlfriends, pissed off friends, you know, all of this for racing. And I just got to realize as I started to progress through my racing career, that it wasn’t exactly what I wanted it to be. You know, I had some hard moments.

So basically it was like my trip down to South America and this big travels, like my long walk down the beach after I was heartbroken by my childhood dream. You know, I was like, wow, this thing that I’ve been trying. to do my whole life [00:02:00] isn’t really for me, I guess. And that was my journey away from it, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: So you got a couple of bucks in your pocket. You pack your backpack. You get on a plane at LAX. Why South America of all the places in the world to go to?

Joey Jordan IV: See, no, I didn’t get on a plane. I drove to South America from my house in California. Whoa. In a van that I imported from Japan. I still liked cars. My little breakup from racing didn’t exclude my fandom towards cars, so I chose a specific van from Japan, a Toyota Hiace, four wheel drive, diesel, manual.

Yeah, so I drove it down from Southern California.

Crew Chief Eric: And you named it after our elite quarterback, Joe Flacco, right?

Joey Jordan IV: No, not quite. I’ve been going to Mexico a lot in my life. Anyone who’s like tall and skinny, or they’ll be ironic, who isn’t skinny, they’ll call them Flacco, which means skinny. And this van, because Japanese vehicles get a higher tax if they’re wider than five and a half feet, was only five and a half feet wide.

So that’s why we call it Flaco. [00:03:00] So

Crew Chief Eric: you drive from LA all the way down to South America. So where do you find yourself? What happens next?

Joey Jordan IV: It starts in Mexico and that’s pretty much smooth sailing. I’m kind of trying to find myself and figure out what’s going on. And yeah, I’m just trying to figure out how to do it.

Like I’m living out of a van, meeting new people. I’m trying to figure out different rules of the road. One of the first things I did in Mexico besides surf a lot and drink a lot of Mexican beer was actually went to the World Rally Championship Race, WRC, by Leon Mexico. And that was great. cool and crazy.

And yeah, W.

Crew Chief Eric: R. C. As many of the know, is near and dear to that oftentimes I’m the o organization or even in t W. R. C. So I feel you th

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. And to do it with the fans in Mexico, they were so like crazy and passionate. And I was camping with like this one family and they gave me a lot of mescal and [00:04:00] tequila and was just, it was a fun time.

It was crazy.

Crew Chief Eric: Was there a shift for you there now on the other side of the fence with the fans and feeling their enthusiasm and their excitement versus being on the track? What was that transition like?

Joey Jordan IV: It was different because the rally watching rally racing, I’m used to road racing. So I was kind of trying to figure it out with the fans.

Of course, I have a little more inside perspective of what the driver might be going through, but I kind of went into it not knowing what to expect at all. And quite the spectacle, all wheel drive, crazy to see them just hook it around those corners and power out barely counter steering.

Crew Chief Eric: Was there any one brand that stuck out to you?

Were you cheering for the Toyota Yaris’s or the Hyundai’s or.

Joey Jordan IV: Not brand specific, but there was a local driver racing in one of the, like, the lower classes that the guys that I was hanging out with told me about, and I think he was just driving, like, it was a Subaru of some sort. I related to him. They didn’t have much money.

It was a beat up car, and he was just going for it.

Crew Chief Eric: You continue to make your way South. Then what [00:05:00] happened?

Joey Jordan IV: Let’s see. I go South and I’m just kind of cruising along. I meet like crazy Australian guy. He starts traveling with me and then I meet a German girl and a British girl. So we’re all going along as a band of four in this tiny little five

Crew Chief Eric: and a half foot band.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. Yeah. We would stop at like hostels and stuff, or we, I also had like a tent and hammocks and it’s really warm. It’s like the jungle. So we would just. Park on the beach and they would sleep in the hammocks or tents or wherever we could fit people. Sometimes in cities, we’d all have to pack in all five of us sleeping in the van.

But yeah, then we made our way into Belize, which is the like Southern East part under the Yucatan of Mexico, much like most Americans. I didn’t know much about Belize at all. And it is, you know, I kind of thought it was an island, but no, it’s part of Central America. And it in Belize, it’s, you know, Kind of like what you would think of Jamaica as they speak English, first of all, like they speak like a Creole English, which is, I didn’t even know existed like a different dialect of English.

So it’s kind of like Rastafarian. That was very interesting. Probably car wise, most interesting [00:06:00] thing because they were part of the Commonwealth, their gas prices are way, way high, just like England. So they use like the same form as England did because it used to, it was an English territory. So because it’s so high and it is a poor country, they actually convert a lot of their cars.

It’s, I guess it’s kind of a hybrid system, but to propane powered vehicles. So they have a big propane tank in the back of a lot of their cars, essentially a bomb and I had a guy like show me how it worked. They had like a switch that would turn it from the combustion engine to the propane engine. And yeah, that was just wild.

Totally different kind of car scene down there.

Crew Chief Eric: So is Belize like we are to believe it was as we’ve seen it on like top gear or on the world’s, you know, greatest roads and toughest roads and all that kind of stuff.

Joey Jordan IV: I mean, there’s some that are really, really bad, but it’s mostly just like pretty doable overall.

The road wise, it’s the other drivers that can make it like hairy. There’s definitely some bad roads, but like, if you wanted to go to Belize and drive through it, and if you did [00:07:00] research, there’s plenty of good roads to get you to wherever you need to be. Just when you go off the beaten path and get lost, like I have did several times, that’s when you encounter these crazy, crazy roads.

Crew Chief Eric: So any issues with the van up until this point?

Joey Jordan IV: It was, uh, pretty reliable, except like, I had a top bunk bed thing set up, like almost like a hammock and the Australian Dan, I think was sleeping in it and that fell like on me. We had to scratch that idea, you know, had an obnoxious amount of rust. It was kind of like driving in a candy wrapper.

Crew Chief Eric: Were you ever worried that if something broke, you wouldn’t be able to find parts for it or anything that being an imported vehicle from Japan?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. I mean, that’s part of the research that I did. So. I knew it’d be fresh from California, but once it got into South America, this van, except for in the United States is one of the most ubiquitous vehicles they make.

It’s everywhere. It starts in Panama. There’s a big Toyota Hiace scene there. They modify them. And then in South America, they have, they’re everywhere. They’re like the regular taxi van. So I wasn’t [00:08:00] too worried about parts, but if I broke down early, it would have been a little bit of an issue. You had a diesel and you had a

Crew Chief Eric: Toyota.

So it’s Reliable and reliable, right? So,

Joey Jordan IV: yeah, exactly. And I got one beat up on purpose. Cause from previous adventures, I’ve learned that you kind of have the best time when it breaks down or like when you have something unexpected happen. I didn’t over engineer it at all. It was just kind of what it was and I drove it, but yeah, up into this point, no major issues.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you think it helps you blend in too, with the locals as you’re kind of traveling?

Joey Jordan IV: I mean, that’s a big thing too. So I grew up in San Diego and I went down to Mexico a lot and that’s where I learned. You want to blend in with your cars down there. I have friends who go down there in their Ford Raptors and they’re going to get pulled over by police all the time.

They’re going to get hassled. Yeah, it’s a big part of it was about blending in.

Crew Chief Eric: As we continue this journey, what are you guys doing for money? Are you just living off of reserves? Are you kind of living off the land? How is that working as you’re continuing down this path?

Joey Jordan IV: I was living off of reserves. I saved up a lot of money, but you can live cheaply, especially when you don’t have to pay [00:09:00] for hotels.

And I did harvest a lot of food. Like I’m a spearfish too. So I would spearfish for food. I wasn’t doing as much spearfishing then, but there’s like coconuts and the food’s just really cheap overall. Like I remember we’re staying on one hostel. where I met some of the girls I ended up traveling with and like mangoes would just fall into the pool that you’re swimming in and you just take it eat that like I don’t know it’s pretty easy to live you know cheaply down there that’s part of the appeal I guess

Crew Chief Eric: Belize to Guatemala and in Guatemala you find yourself back behind the wheel of a race car how did that come to be

Joey Jordan IV: yeah Guatemala beautiful country first of all I was so shocked by its beauty and it’s like so close to us You know, like here in Southern California, I think it’s like a four or five hour plane ride.

And it’s not like a hot jungly place that I thought it would. They do have some of that more like cloud foresty, almost like San Francisco type of weather. And really green and beautiful. Love Guatemala. Got up in there and climbed up their huge mountain into the capital city. All right, keep on, you know, I did have some plans like, [00:10:00] okay, I’m breaking up with racing here in motor sports for a little bit, but it was hard to completely like let go.

So I had some ideas of like, well, maybe I can film how different cultures race, you know, and take a part of it. And I can make like some little sizzle reel and then send that off to whoever was a part of the race. Like if they were on Yokohama tires, I could send that off to Yokohama, you know, and see if we could work out something where they could give me a little.

extra cash to help me with my travels and I could provide them some cool, genuine content. But yeah, that, that was part of my idea is like, maybe I could see Anthony Bourdain, you know, parts unknown where he, he sees different cultures through food. I was going to think maybe I can do that through cars and racing.

Yeah. I just started kind of shopping around on Facebook, found a guy from Ireland who knew some people who’s an expat who actually lives down there. And I already knew where the, there was a racetrack near where I was kind of staying. Honestly, how I found his Wikipedia, there’s a really long, awesome list of racetracks all across the world by country.

And you can click on [00:11:00] those tracks and then just like put that on the Facebook and you’ll see all the local races that run there. But yeah, then I found my way into a Toyota Yaris and the Yaris Cup.

Crew Chief Eric: You walk up with your helmet and you’re driving soon. They said, Oh, Joey, we see you in SRO and they let you in.

I mean, what was that process like?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. They don’t really have as much regulations there, right? It’s um, and that’s kind of the beauty of it. It’s almost like I felt like I was racing like in the 70s there and they were excited to have an American driver. I don’t think they’ve ever heard of me, an American race car driver that just gave me like some credentials and I know they, they sidestepped me.

Step their local licensing process and let me run as they told me in Mexico on my way down, you know down there It’s the true by eastly, but it which is the real free country You can kind of do what you want and that’s the same in that race. You didn’t need a license

Crew Chief Eric: So, how did you do in the yaris cup?

Joey Jordan IV: I think I was like mid pack They were, they did not want to let the gringo go by or be anywhere near them. There were some good drivers, but it was like a [00:12:00] crazy tight track. And I was, I don’t know what equipment I had anyways, race car driver, excuses, excuses, but yeah, I was about mid pack and just got beat up on by everyone, a lot of fun.

Great to meet everyone. Crazy amount of fans. Insane amount of fans with all the flag girls and promotions and wild experience. There’s a volcano erupting in the background. You know, I remember that we were on pre grid and I feel a vibration, you know, I’m starting to tune into the car. I’m like, what was that?

I’m like, wait, the car’s not even on yet. I didn’t know if like the engine was shaking. Yeah. I remember like finding out, oh yeah, the volcano was just erupting. It was just right behind us. That’s pretty awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: It was a road course, not like a rally cross or anything.

Joey Jordan IV: No, it was a road course, tight little road course, probably like only a mile and a half long, a bunch of corners.

I think my favorite part of that race, this will give you an idea of exactly how much they’ve lived in the past and how much, uh, they don’t really have rules or regulations. There was a guy who broke down. [00:13:00] In the inside of turn one, he was like maybe a foot off the track and he hops out of his car, which is my first red flag, like, Whoa, Whoa, you don’t do that.

But then he runs over and finds his mechanic in the paddock with his full gear. He ran across the front straightaway mechanic with the right amount of wrenches and they start working on their car. There’s just a standing yellow flag and they’re working on the car on the inside of turn one. Uh, no protection.

They get it running. Mechanic runs back across the track. The guy gets strapped in and yeah, he finished the race. Wow.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s insane. I can’t even, you know, the first rule of, of any of these schools and even the races never get out of your car unless it’s on fire. Right. I mean, it’s just like, wow. I know.

Joey Jordan IV: I know.

People are just watching like, oh yeah, good job. Get your car running. That’s great.

Crew Chief Eric: So from Guatemala, you head to Nicaragua and you make your first set of mods to Flacco the van.

Joey Jordan IV: Nicaragua is where things started to not go to plan, and that’s a big part of Latin America, is it’s hard to kind of plan in that kind [00:14:00] of long form of travel.

Things are going to go wrong. I was actually planning on doing another race in Costa Rica that I was trying to get down to, but in Nicaragua, forgot the president’s name. I think he’s still the president, Ortega. He’s been the president forever, but there is a bunch of protests. It started something with students, but basically it was the typical, like it turned violent and it was government versus the people.

It just got really crazy in Nicaragua pretty fast. And I think Nicaragua is one of my favorite countries. So it’s a shame that was happening, but yeah, I get into Nicaragua. There’s a bunch of protests going on, like roadblocks. I knew I wanted to get to the South quickly and Nicaragua takes up the whole Central America.

I can’t go anywhere around it. So I have to go through Nicaragua. I know these protests are going on. I had to go through like crazy roadblocks and backroads and a bunch of local families helped me out. A lot of times the roadblocks were violent, so it was pretty edgy. But then I got down to the southern part of Nicaragua where there’s a bunch of surf and just kind of hung out there.

Pretty stressful drive down. So I partied [00:15:00] quite a bit, kind of cut the edge off and enjoyed myself. And then, the protests just kept getting worse. So I was like, well, time to go to Costa Rica. I go to Costa Rica. They just look at my car and they’re like, what, what’s that? I’m like, what do you mean? It’s a car.

And they’re like, this is all in Spanish, but like, we don’t allow right hand drive vehicles. That’s when I found that out. So right at Costa Rican border, just completely unprepared. My journey ends there. If I can’t drive through Costa Rica, Costa Rica is thanks to American tourism, a little more built up and they actually have rules and regulations.

There’s certain situations in Latin America where you can just bribe them. And I think I got up to like a grand and they were not budging on letting me through at all. So there I was, I have violent protests pushing on me from the north. I was just trapped in this one little kind of touristy town called San Juan del Sur in the southern western part of Nicaragua, but I didn’t know how bad the protests were going to get.

They were talking potentially full civil war, like I needed to get out of there. So I could have just left the van there and [00:16:00] hope that it’d get better and continue my journey on foot. I could just stop my trip. I could have put it on a boat, but nothing seemed very legal or like organized the boat that I’d have to put it onto.

I would have had to go to the capital city, which was a really bad situation. I guess being an idiot and thinking I can just get my way with things. I came up with another option, which is. I bet I can just move the wheel to the other side of the car, drive across the border, super late at night, just engineer something, put like a fake dash and hopefully they won’t notice.

And I can just sneak through because I know once I was in Costa Rica, none of the officials would care. It was just the border officials that cared.

Crew Chief Eric: And you’re not alone. So your passenger, who is technically in the driver’s seat, could be operating the pedals while you’re steering from the left hand side of the car.

Joey Jordan IV: That was the crazy part. To get this fabricated, I had to go into the city just north of me, where they did have protests called Rivas. I asked all these different fabrication [00:17:00] shops if they could help me. It was the dirtiest, grimiest one that said yes, eventually, like the last one. And it was essentially a muddy parking lot with a chain link fence.

I remember when I walked in, they were Welding over a bunch of spilled diesel fuel and there’s a spark shooting on that fuel. I was like, Ooh, this is going to be, I guess is the adventure I’d asked for and took a steering rack out of another Toyota that would fit my steering wheel. And we welded it in the passenger side through the glove box to my dash, basically another steering rack.

And then we welded a pulley, like a drive pulley to both steering racks, ran a belt. The wheel would actually drive the car on the other side. And this took a few days. I slept in this dirty, diesel y lot with these crazy mechanics who are just smoking cigarettes and welding. It was a pretty authentic experience.

But yeah, and then we built like this fake dash around it. I didn’t come up with a way or really felt like at the time to do anything with the pedals. So the pedals stayed on the right side of the car while the wheel was on the [00:18:00] left. And the crazy thing is, is I had to drive it to where I had some friends in the partying town I was hanging out in.

I had to drive it to them by myself. So I’m on the right side with the pedals and driving the stick shift with my left hand holding the steering wheel. That was pretty crazy, especially because I had to go through a pretty intense road block to get back there. Some guys and machetes trying to slash at my tires.

It wasn’t good. But so did this

Crew Chief Eric: modification render the steering wheel on the, what would be the right hand side of the car inoperable? Or did they both work?

Joey Jordan IV: There was no steering on the right side. Cause I just took one off and put it was normally the passenger side.

Crew Chief Eric: You did a quick release. So you could go from one side to the other, right?

Joey Jordan IV: I know that would have been smart, but I don’t think they had any quick releases there. I was pressed for time, right? There was like. In hindsight, I should have just hung out longer, but they really didn’t know what the situation was going to be like in Nicaragua. They said, their thing is going to get really bad.

Everyone was recommending to just get out of the country. [00:19:00] So it was kind of like my only option. Yeah. Then I got to the town, San Juan del Sur, where I had a few friends left over. I asked this Canadian guy to wait for me and we, uh, drove it across together. So we could at least mimic, you know, a driver and a passenger and.

Hilarious. We were in tears driving it to the border , um, in Costa Rica because it’s, it’s just so funny. Like, I think top Gear’s done some racing series like that where someone does the pedals and another person does a steering wheel. Great exercise. I didn’t think they didn’t get across in that episode how fun that is, but it was super entertaining.

Crew Chief Eric: So you now find yourself in Costa Rica with a modified van? Not yet. Oh, not yet.

Joey Jordan IV: No, no, not yet. So there’s no real, uh, shortcuts to the story, but we go to the, we drive to the border crying, laughter. We get there and there’s so many different checks to go through and we get through probably eight of those checks for on the Nicaragua side, three in the Costa Rican side, and we did it at midnight.

So no one could tell. And people were looking inside the car. It was going perfectly last [00:20:00] guy comes out in the Costa Rican side. He basically was like looking for the VIN and then he saw that there was no pedals underneath the steering wheel and then he shined his light and he could see everything. I would later learn to know him as El Jefe, which is the boss.

Wrong man to find at midnight and he wasn’t very happy with me. He’s like, you’re never coming into this country. You have to go back. He actually let my friend who was with me go, because I just pleaded with him and said like, Hey, he had nothing to do with this. So they let him go. So he walked into Costa Rica and found a bus.

So I was by myself. I tried to go back to Nicaragua to just kind of gather myself. The word got around fast and Nicaragua all of a sudden made up a law that said they don’t allow on right hand drive cars anymore. Even though I was just there, I was like, I just drove through here. What do you mean? So I was stuck.

It was about 200 yards in between Costa Rica and Nicaragua. Yeah. Of no man’s land. I would spend a few days there. I’d later call it Nicarica. It was my own country Nice Yeah, and so yeah, I was stuck there. I was [00:21:00] really again left with no options I could have potentially gone on foot and just left my van there Talking to some of the officials and they said maybe you could do that.

Maybe you couldn’t so I was just playing with those options I ended up going into Costa Rica on foot. They did let me in and I left the van there. And then I just had to come up with the option of like, okay, do I leave the van here and continue the journey on foot? Does Costa Rica have my van now? And I really thought about just giving it up there.

Cause it was like a lot, you know, going through Nicaragua that was on the brink of a revolution was a lot on my consciousness. So. I ended up going back to Rescue Flacco when I tried to bring it back and just come up with a way to just get it through there. They essentially put me and Flacco into this, I don’t even know what it was, I wasn’t allowed to leave, I just call it a terrorist prison.

Essentially it was this huge fenced off barbed wired yard. where they had other cars and other people who weren’t allowed really in the country, or they had some issues. There’s a few Germans there and another American family there who [00:22:00] also ran into issues and we weren’t really allowed to leave. We were stuck until we could figure out our issues.

We were there, there’s a bathroom, Wi Fi, and this little muddy lot. Yeah. And I don’t even remember how long I was there for. It wasn’t too long until I jumped through all the hoops and litigations to tow Flacco all the way across Costa Rica and into Panama. So that ended up being the solution. Yeah, I had a little stint there in this, I don’t even know what to call it, this little tucked away, locked in yard.

Crew Chief Eric: In town block, right?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, exactly. That brought me into Panama. I kind of had to leapfrog Costa Rica.

Crew Chief Eric: So in Panama, what did you end up doing there? Or did you just kind of continue your journey on?

Joey Jordan IV: Up till now, that’s like four months of my trip. First, I had a van with two steering racks, so I was trying to figure that out.

Just kind of trying to process what was happening, what I should do with my trip. I lost a lot of money. I had to spend nearly four grand to just tow the van. I was kind of documenting my trip a little bit and I just scrapped that. I was just doing some soul [00:23:00] searching in Panama. But I also had the next task of, you can’t actually drive across in between Panama and Columbia.

It’s known as the Darien Gap. I think a couple of Americans did it once and just the Darien Gap, it took them three years to drive through. You basically have to like cut through the jungle. So what you have to do is put your car on a, on a boat. I was figuring out how to do that. We actually have to put it in a shipping container and ship it to Columbia.

So in Panama, I was doing a lot of spearfishing, hanging out at the beach. Trying to figure out the process of how to ship my van across. Trying to figure out what I’m going to do with my journey. You know, I’m young, I’m 23 years old. I’m just trying to like, also go on this journey to like, find myself and find what I was going to do with my life.

A lot of introspection, a lot of hanging out at the beach, doing some surfing, doing some spearfishing. Panama was a beautiful country as well.

Crew Chief Eric: So you and Flacco then end up in Columbia.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, I’m in Columbia. I start to really find my groove of doing this whole van life thing. And this was in 2018, just to give you guys an idea.

You know, I got [00:24:00] really comfortable with spearfishing, harvesting coconuts, living very cheaply. You know, I was starting to figure out my money problem. I was making these. Psychological gains of just spending all this time with myself and thinking, and I was feeling really good about myself and figured like I had things just figured out.

So was racing

Crew Chief Eric: on your mind at any point? Did you have flashbacks to being on the track or was it the furthest thing from your mind at that time?

Joey Jordan IV: After I missed the race in Costa Rica and I lost a lot, it was like the furthest, I think it was pretty far out of my mind. I was still always looking at cars and the car culture and seeing what they’re doing.

And, but racing, yeah, it just seemed like a distant dream, you know, like that you like, yeah, that was a profound experience, but

Crew Chief Eric: what kind of progression did you see the further you went South? How did the car culture change and what kind of vehicles were you seeing as you moved through this?

Joey Jordan IV: I would say that the theme of central America and like Mexico and Guatemala and all those countries is just improvisation.[00:25:00]

Anytime they have a problem with the car, they’re so creative and making it work. And I really love that. I mean, I remember seeing a car that the whole sidewall was pretty blown out except for a few stitches and they just stuffed hay in the tire and this like work truck and that’s what they’re driving around in.

Yeah. I remember, I think we got a flat tire somewhere or someone I was traveling with got a flat tire. Someone drove by like, Oh no, that tire is good. That has at least like 10 more years on it. And like, just put some stuff in it. Everyone just seems a little more mechanical down there. Cause you have to be, if your car breaks down, you have to fix it.

But lots of Toyotas, lots of Japanese vehicles, everything was older, more beat up. In Guatemala, they have crazy like chicken buses, which are all the school buses from the 1970s in America that they imported down there, that they just stuff with people and just go flying through these dirt roads. Yeah, in the style of driving, but just a lot of improvisation through there.

But then in South America, it started to kind of change more and get their own personalities. I won’t get ahead of it there because that really [00:26:00] started to happen towards like Ecuador and Peru. I don’t want to get ahead of that. Columbia is, most of their cities are out like in these rain cloud forests.

So it’s very high up in the start of the Andes and it’s heavily populated cities. So the roads are absolutely insane. Like that’s exactly what you saw on like the top gear traveling episodes. Like I think the world’s dangerous road is. It’s somewhere around there, but they drove on famously, like it’s pretty similar to that, except even busier going into Medellin.

The road is really tight and narrow and you have these truck, the truck drivers in all these countries. There’s, they have to be like the best drivers ever. I think they should be put in a world rally car and see how they do. They drive flat out,

Crew Chief Eric: huh?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. Yup. I hung out with a few of them at some truck stops and they’re just a crazy wild bunch.

I’m sure they got some

Crew Chief Eric: stories to share, huh?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, and lots of drinks and they have a lot of energy. So did they give

Crew Chief Eric: you tips on how to continue your journey? Like some of the best roads to take and places to avoid and things like that? I’m sure you [00:27:00] probably gained some knowledge from those truck drivers.

Joey Jordan IV: They would tell me like some roads that were good and bad, but they also had a big sense of humor and would just like to like mess with this random gringo like hanging out, usually talking to them or hang out with them from like 10 o’clock at night until everyone woke up to drive the next morning and they would just cut loose.

So they weren’t really in an advice frame of mind. And yeah, in some places like Colombia and in especially Bolivia, they had a lot of energy and that energy wasn’t really natural, right? It was kind of augmented by other substances, especially in Bolivia where it’s legal to just have cocoa leaves in your mouth.

So that’s the leaves that make cocaine out of, and that’s just what they’re chewing on, drinking a whole lot of. stuff. Yeah. In Bolivia they drink, uh, this like spit juice that is fermented. People chew on it, these things, and it’s called like chizza. I don’t know. They made me try some. It wasn’t too bad, but

Crew Chief Eric: So did you ever get to ride with any of the truck drivers while they were on some of their runs to get the full experience?

Joey Jordan IV: Hell no, I would never want to do that. [00:28:00] No, I’m basically implying they probably weren’t sober while they were driving. Yeah, I got you. I got

Crew Chief Eric: you.

Joey Jordan IV: No, no, no, no, no. And the way they drove, like, I don’t think they cared. And that was kind of their mentality. They’re almost like these rock stars. They didn’t really care if they crashed or if they made it, they’re just there to make some money.

They live or died, whatever. Full send, right? Full send. Yeah, that’s it. They were happy to be there that night and to have enough money to buy a bottle of whatever liquor that country had, and that was it.

Crew Chief Eric: So what was the political climate like once you crossed into Colombia and the other countries all the way through?

Was it, were you faced with more of these hazards or more of these protests or was it different?

Joey Jordan IV: Colombia kind of has just a long lasting political battle with like the FARC, who the people who operate the Darien Gap. I did find some trouble because so right when I crossed into Colombia, I was just right in that part where I thought I had everything figured out, you know, that was just this like, like, okay, I made it through that Costa Rican debacle that Nicaragua one, I stayed in Nicaragua longer than most of [00:29:00] the other tourists.

I think I know what’s going on. So I was camping along the beaches in northern Columbia, just not paying for campsites, like I’ll just find some random beach myself on some dirt road and camp for free, like save money. I was fishing a lot for food, catching crabs on the beach for food. I Just really becoming like Tom Hanks and Castaway.

Like I had my Wilson and Flacco and we were just grooving. That ended up leading into kind of a rough patch there. And before I explain this, it’s really sad to me how afraid people are to travel to Latin America because of stories like what I’m about to tell. But, All these countries can be extremely safe, Nicaragua, all of them, and they’re extremely beautiful if you’re not an idiot like me, okay?

I thought I could get away and just, and treat it like it was my own country, right? My own California where I, I am safe and there’s secure places. If you just do a tiny bit of research, if I would have just done a little bit of research, I would have known that right hand drive vehicles aren’t allowed into Costa Rica.

It’s all over the internet. [00:30:00] A lot of people have had similar problems like me. And then if I would have researched or just looked at a map, any of the traveling maps that they have, I would have seen that a beach that I was about to go camping to in Northern Columbia was deep, deep fark land. And lots of bad stuff happened there.

But basically, yeah, you could go to Columbia and be perfectly safe. If you just do a little bit of research. I’m just an idiot. And I also like to find trouble. So. Camping on a beach in Columbia, like completely secluded. I passed by like one house with this kid playing like soccer with like a literal rag ball.

Set up a fire. I was looking for crabs. Like I saw some crab holes. I found a coconut. I walked around naked for a little bit. Like I was fully in it. Like I’m jungle man. I was making this fire bent over and I heard like a twig snap and I turned around. One guy with a gun and one guy with a machete. Yeah, I remember the weirdest thing was like when I heard that something behind me I turned around I almost like apologized because every time in my life before i’ve been [00:31:00] startled It’s just been like someone coming in the room like oh, sorry Like I didn’t see you there and I almost like oh, sorry And then until I saw there was a gun pointed at me.

I could tell pretty quickly by the size of their pupils They you know, we’re all filled with confidence But basically, yeah, they tied me up beat me up pretty good pretty serious situation You They told me they were going to kill me. They cocked the gun in the back of my head. I thought that was it pretty much ripped everything out of Flacco.

For some reason, they didn’t pull the trigger and they left me just tied up and beaten up on the beach.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you think the fire was kind of the beacon that they knew you were there? Maybe had you not made that mistake, they wouldn’t have known, or was it just you, the sole car that was out of place that also maybe got the attention of the community or something?

Joey Jordan IV: The fire wasn’t even at a point to where it would alert anyone yet, because it was like twilight, so you couldn’t see the glow of the flame yet. Like, I remember the sun was just setting, and it was a beautiful sunset. I think they saw me roll up, maybe that kid who saw me playing soccer, saw me drive [00:32:00] past, was like, Hey, guess what?

I saw some gringo. And then that’s such a weird thing to see for them. That news spread across probably a bunch of other small houses. I didn’t even know were there. Yeah. And it becomes like a

Crew Chief Eric: scene in a bad movie, like a Tarantino film suddenly or something, you know?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, exactly. I think I have my private jungle beach.

I’m walking around naked. They’re probably laughing, doing lines of Coke, getting ready to take everything from me. Pretty harrowing experience. And yeah, I really don’t feel, uh, any like anger towards them at all. Like who knows what situation I’d be in if like I was in their shoes and how poor some of them live.

If I saw some punk white boy walk onto my beach and he had like this fancy camera and my daughter’s like picking coffee beans and she has to be out of school, I would rob that guy and sell that stuff so my daughter could go to school in a heartbeat. So yeah, I don’t take anything away from them. Just learn some things.

Pretty, pretty crazy experience.

Crew Chief Eric: So you graduated the school of hard knocks in Columbia, it seems like. So we’ve got to take a step back though. We’ve got to talk about [00:33:00] Flacco for a minute. You did all these modifications in Nicaragua and Costa Rica. So did you have to undo the mods? What happened with Flacco at that point?

Obviously, like you said, a lot of stuff got taken. So now you’re there naked and afraid and the van’s empty. What transpired next?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, so I guess to catch you up with Flacco, he in the city just not too far away from where I ended up getting robbed, Barranquilla, Colombia. I got everything removed and I was driving around all on the right side, but there’s still a steering rack there.

I basically just cut the pulley. Took all the dash stuff out and put the steering wheel just onto the stock steering rack. But I had a bare steering rack just sticking out there. So that wasn’t very inviting to any friends I might meet who want to travel with me. So I got that just cut out with like a grinder.

I just paid some guy like 10 bucks and bearing Kia probably two days before I ended up getting robbed. Yeah. After I got robbed, I was just laying there like tied up, probably had a few broken ribs, pretty beat up. And they told me. In [00:34:00] Spanish, which my Spanish is like getting better, but it wasn’t the best.

They told me that a bunch of people in the jungle. And then if I move within an hour, they’re going to kill me. They’re going to come and kill me. I have to stay there for an hour. So I got to lay there like bloody snot and broken ribs tied up for an hour. And just, uh, who knows how much time it was, but to me, it seemed like forever.

So did anybody

Crew Chief Eric: come to your rescue? How did you get untied?

Joey Jordan IV: I basically had to. inchworm across the sand. I was probably maybe 20 yards could have been 20, 000 miles from Flacco. Very painfully on some really beat up ribs. It was excruciating pain. I had to really convince myself to do that. You know, a lot happens when you think you’re going to die.

And I just remember that whole process, like I kept thinking about my mom and I realized when I was laying there, Oh, wait, I’m alive. Like I can go see her all the people, all the things that flashed in my head that I said goodbye to when I heard the cocking of that gun in the back of my head, I get that again, if I just figure out how to get to my van.

And, uh, [00:35:00] and so that was the motivating factor to very painfully slide across my broken ribs to Flacco. Very awkwardly, like, kind of backed myself up along the van, and I knew I had kind of like a hunting knife in one of the door pockets. My hands were still free, it was just my legs and arms that were tied up.

So I was able to get that, and cut me free enough to eventually get out, and found a spare key. Didn’t have time to really do triage, like all the drawers and everything and clothes were all thrown out of it, I just threw everything in. And started it up and drove out of there. So where did you head to

Crew Chief Eric: next?

The local hospital or

Joey Jordan IV: the next country in line? It’s almost hard to like, remember where I was at. There was a hostel that I stayed in in Cartagena, Columbia before. So I limped into there. I didn’t have any money. So I begged them to let me stay until I could find like a friend. Cause I had a friend coming down there to meet me.

And I was like, okay, I know he’s going to be here. If I can just get ahold of him, they can pay this bill at this hostel. Don’t need to [00:36:00] get into all the logistics of it, but I didn’t really have a plan. I had a lot of cash in the van. I had a lot of assets in the van that got stolen and I got a lot of my like psyche stolen, you know?

So I was just hovering and eventually I met up with my friends. You know, and I wanted him to still have a good time. So I just drove to Medellin and we hung out there for a while. And then, but eventually he left and then I was just by myself and like, I had to figure out what to do, but eventually I decided to just keep going and I made it to the border of Ecuador, but I was like, really out of money at that point and I knew I probably couldn’t make it to my goal of Patagonia.

I had some credit cards, luckily they didn’t find my passport. So I ended up getting ahold of my parents and telling them what happened. And of course that’s got to be hard for parents. And, uh, and I knew I need to go make some more money. So they offered to like fly me back. So what I ended up doing was actually flew back to California for a little bit to make some money.

I left Flacco in Ecuador and then came back to continue the [00:37:00] journey. That’s what ended up happening. But I remember when they bought me that plane ticket, I was sitting in, not quite Ecuador yet. And I was sitting in this mountain town and I was going through so much introspection. Like I just got this renewal on life.

And I thought about just like throwing the ticket away and just living in that town. I met some people there that were cool. I was like, I’m just going to work in these coffee fields right here. I’m good right now. Like I almost died. Like maybe I can just go out that way. But I did hop on that plane. It was a close, close moment.

Did end up coming back to California. I didn’t really know if I was gonna come back to finish the trip because I was just so rattled and I didn’t really know what to make of life and death or anything anymore at that point. But I eventually decided, like, I can’t let that be the story of my trip because then the FARC wins.

Then cocaine wins. Then it’s a sad story. So eventually I went back down to start the trip again. So did you do any

Crew Chief Eric: racing in between and your time back in California? Or did you say, nah, I’m still not ready to go back yet.

Joey Jordan IV: I don’t think I did any racing. [00:38:00] Luckily work at Porsche experience center, Los Angeles.

I was able to continue on working there. Thank goodness. So that’s, I guess, I mean, I was on a track every day. I can’t avoid it, right? That’s kind of my thing. And I think there was some other stuff that I can’t really remember. It was really a weird state of mind after that happened. It’s like I was just floating and appreciative to be breathing and not really putting much plan into my actions.

Right. It was just,

Crew Chief Eric: Then you take a break from this grand adventure and then you hop on a plane and return to Ecuador. Is Flacco there waiting for you or did you find another Flacco?

Joey Jordan IV: That was a big question at that point. When I left Flacco there, the situation was I could leave Flacco in this parking lot.

And I had to wait for my plane ticket out of there, but the only money I had left, only cash I could scrounge up, the only place I could stay because they wouldn’t let me stay in the van was in a brothel. So the last days before I flew back, I was sleeping in a brothel because that’s all I could afford.

And I would basically just sit in my room, eat tortillas because [00:39:00] it’s all I could eat with a little bit of the tajin sauce and some bananas. And then I’d walk around town and like talk to people. I was kind of in a weird fugue state, but that’s where I left it from. So I had like no money. I couldn’t set up anything properly.

So I really didn’t know Flacco was going to be there. But yeah, then I landed in Ecuador and this town is such a small mountain border town. It’s like hard to get to, but I ended up figuring out how to get some buses from the capital of Ecuador and Quito to this tiny mountain town. And Flacco had moved somehow from a different part of the parking lot.

But it was still there. And I think it had been like for like six, maybe eight months. So just sitting there, it took me like an hour and I got it started.

Crew Chief Eric: The love hate relationship with Flacco continues. Did you find, especially with your time by yourself, did you find yourself, you know, like you said, it’s like you’re Wilson.

Did you find yourself like talking to Flacco and, you know, coaching him along, maybe? You know, the sound of the diesel was giving you motivation or something like, especially as you restarted this journey so many months later, what was, what was that like?

Joey Jordan IV: Flaco is [00:40:00] completely my Wilson. I talk to him constantly.

I mean, I really talk to myself, but I mean, that’s why I think I like love older cars so much. And that’s like my style that I started to develop when I left for the trip. I think I liked newer cars, like, you know, all the exotic cars, but old cars have character. Flaco had a personality. He liked warm weather.

He didn’t like cold weather, you know, like a person. He liked to be driven a certain way. He would protest when I would drive him a little too hard for too long, just little things that would build up. And yeah, sometimes he would just give me hell. But when I started him back up, Like, it was very emotional.

Like, after the whole thing, after the robbery, I was almost like a zombie. I was, like, emotionless. But starting Flacco back up, and knowing that I could finish my journey, like, I was almost completely breaking down when he, when I first drove him away. That was a pretty magical moment. But then he quickly, uh, got on my dark side right after.

Uh oh! Yes. So

Crew Chief Eric: what broke?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. Everything started breaking out for that. I don’t think it was [00:41:00] good for him to sit. And yeah, that was at like 4, 000 meters where he was parked. So roughly 12, 000 feet elevation. I made it all the way to keto. Barely, barely, barely, barely kept breaking down. It was like, had no power.

It was. Overheating a little bit. So I found a really cool garage in Quito that kind of took me in and helped me rebuild Flacco on the cheap. He let me do a lot of my own work and I just kind of paid like garage space. And he ended up being race car driver in, in Ecuador. He raced like old, I think Volkswagen, like Corrados, but maybe something different that’s even more unique, but some really cool older cars.

That was a cool experience hanging out with him and getting to know like a. A cool genuine car guy in Ecuador. But yeah, I had to source some fuel injectors. I had some problems with the fuel rail coming off. Everything was rusty, so I was breaking stuff. Got to know Quito, Ecuador really well. Had to stay there for like six weeks, roughly.

Crew Chief Eric: You fire up Flacco, you get them all fixed up. You’re headed out of Ecuador and next on your list of countries, [00:42:00] right? We did Columbia, we did Ecuador, now it’s Peru and then Bolivia. So what happens in Peru?

Joey Jordan IV: I spent quite a bit time in Ecuador. What I was starting to learn is that like traveling slow is like my style and what I like to do.

So it’s actually spending a lot longer time in just a few towns and then moving in big chunks, something American travelers, it takes time for them to learn. We like to just like go see and do all these things. The Ecuador is beautiful, cool car thing about Ecuador and their fuel is subsidized. So a gallon of diesel was 1.

Oh, a whole gallon.

Crew Chief Eric: Not today. It’s like six bucks a gallon here on the East coast.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, I know, but it probably still there. Maybe it’s like a dollar 25. They had a big protest when they wanted to raise the price of gas down there. Not, not too long ago. So yeah, I was happy in Ecuador, just filling up my tanks of fuel, made a run into the Amazon in Ecuador.

And that was beautiful. I’ll never forget. I mean, I think this needs to be in a driving magazine is the most crazy thing I’ve seen from out of a windshield of a car, but I was [00:43:00] driving in the Amazon jungle, and I could see from Amazon jungle, a huge volcano covered in snow. It made me feel like I was on a different planet.

Like, how can I be seeing snow? I’m drenched in sweat right now. And I’m just looking at the snow covered mountain. It was beautiful to see. Like the jungle start to rise up into this mountain where there’s, there’s snow, but after I enjoyed Ecuador a lot, filled up all my spare jerrycans with 1 gallon diesel, I went into Peru and that’s where the driving personalities really started to come alive.

The Ecuadorian people are pretty calm and a little like to themselves. In their cities, they had some aggressive driving, but that kind of showed in the public, like street driving style, they would just be, they would kind of let you give you room. They weren’t too crazy. It was nice. They were just overall a nice experience.

And then I get into Peru, and it was the exact opposite. Anyone who complains about, like, LA traffic over here, they need to go take a journey and drive through Peru. There are people who are very, like, a bit more [00:44:00] brash, and they aren’t afraid to kind of say their opinion, and they kind of walk their own line.

You should appreciate all the rules that we have to follow in the United States. There are a beautiful thing. I used to hate them, but in Peru, they don’t follow any of the rules. Driving down a freeway, they don’t stay in the lane. If there’s traffic, they will take up every inch of the space, cross the whole shoulder, and then fight for every inch of space.

If you leave a gap, I’m talking like three feet, someone else is going to nose in. So you have to be on it. Just gas break, gas break, gas break.

Crew Chief Eric: Not too different than a Miata Cup race then.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, more stressful. That was the most stressful driving I had to do. Driving through Lima, Peru. You have to pay so much attention and fight for every single inch.

That’s part of their style. They would come into an intersection like full speed. Like they’re going to run right through it and then slam on the brakes to try to scare you to slow down. So then they could jump in front of you. So stressful, stressful driving the whole time. How good were

Crew Chief Eric: the brakes on [00:45:00] Flacco?

Not, not so great, right?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. I was afraid. Cause if you look on YouTube, you can look up high ACE nose wheelies. Where people put good brakes on them and it’ll break and it’ll do like a nose wheelie. So, Facka’s brakes are pretty good, but like, I felt like you’re on top of that thing. So I was a little worried about, I’m too hard.

It felt like you were going to go through the windshield. That was pretty interesting to see. And it just kind of showed through the people too. Like I love the proving people when I was outside of a car, cause they were just like. Almost more like your east coasters, like the mass holes, right? Like that’s them in Peru.

And then Ecuador is more like New Mexico or California, just like calm, like more rural, just like, yeah, go right ahead, buddy. Just

Crew Chief Eric: so did the car culture also shift as you got into Peru? Did you see anything different?

Joey Jordan IV: You started to see, I believe, I think it was in Peru or Bolivia, some French cars for the first time.

So some Renaults. Some Peugeots, so that was cool, not really too different between Ecuador and Peru. Later on, it starts to get a lot different with the car cultures with like the, just the different type of cars that they [00:46:00] drive. But a lot of like heavily modified Nissan Sentras, like the most basic car and they’re going to put it like a sticker and a huge muffler that they just found off of anything to make it louder.

They’ll modify anything like a Toyota Previa, they’ll modify, they’ll modify whatever they can do just because they like cars down there. And I think Peru definitely had more modifications. Like every taxi driver had their own little thing to their car, you know? Like, I think I remember seeing one little Nissan thing.

I think they called something else down there, like a Tsuru with like the tailpipes going out the side of the car. You know, why not? Side exit,

Crew Chief Eric: let’s go.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, side exit. Yeah, that’s the, that’s the jargon term I was looking for. Just stuff like that. Like cars, we would be ashamed to be driving here. They flaunt it.

And make it cool and modify it in their own way.

Crew Chief Eric: So Peru, then you find yourself finally in Bolivia.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah. So Bolivia, those were probably the craziest truck drivers. It’s the poorest country of all the ones in South America. One of the most [00:47:00] beautiful as well. Now along this journey, I’ve met a couple other friends that I was traveling with.

I met a snowboarder from Northern California that was kind of in and out of the van with me from Peru. into Bolivia, and I really loved Bolivia. It was like genuine, you know. A lot of the other places, like, Americans don’t travel to Peru so much, but they have a lot of, like, touristic areas, you know. And I was starting to learn that I really liked, like, the genuine little towns and those genuine experiences where, you know, kind of look at me differently because they don’t see many white people or Americans.

So Bolivia was a lot more of that. I didn’t feel like they were trying to sell stuff to me because they’re just not used to tourists.

Crew Chief Eric: While you were in Peru before you left, did you make it a point to go up into like Machu Picchu or anything like that? Or some of those more historic areas?

Joey Jordan IV: Part of me discovering myself because it was such a dream of mine to go to Machu Picchu, but from what I’ve learned on my travels and some of those similar places, the big pyramid in Mexico, Chichen Itza, I think, places like that, I never really enjoyed it that much.

I drove right by Machu Picchu and didn’t go. [00:48:00] And I did it as like an overt decision. Like, you know what, I don’t need to see that. I understand what it is. I’m going to get frustrated by it. I would rather spend the time and the money that I have in these smaller towns and just places that I end up finding.

So yeah, I skipped that. Flaco did break down in a city called Arequipa, Peru. Lost a water pump. Luckily caught it before it got too bad. And yeah, locating parts down there is just so hilarious. They have a million different shops and every shop, it’s very specific. You’ll have a shop for bolts that are metric and then a different shop with their own hours and their own different employees for bolts that are English or American.

There’s a place just for water pumps. I remember the word was Bombas and there’s a place just for everything else, but they all had their different hours. It’s basically like almost like a swap meet style that you go into there and just trying to locate. A water pump for the highest was a little challenging with my still, uh, kind of limited Spanish that doesn’t know car jargon at all in [00:49:00] Spanish.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. I was going to say, you’re not going to walk into the local auto zone or advanced or Toyota dealership and find the parts. It’s all bargaining and bartering.

Joey Jordan IV: That’s right. Yeah. And a lot of people looking at me like, what is this guy doing here? Like it was a lot of blue collar Peruvians and I don’t think they expected to see this kind of goofy white guy walking through asking for a bomba.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I think you mentioned earlier about doing your research. At least you did the research on the vehicle because like you said, you had a vehicle that was super common. So you didn’t drive in there with a Renault and people go, Oh, we don’t have parts for that. You know, the commonplace cars in there.

Volkswagen beetles and your truck and things like that, where parts are plentiful. I mean, you made the right move there. That’s for sure. Cause otherwise you blow a water pump on something else. Good luck.

Joey Jordan IV: I guess I should pat myself on the back for that amount of research because it did work out. Like I could always find parts.

It’s just, things just take a lot longer down there. And that taught me it was good. You just relax. If you don’t have the [00:50:00] right bolt or the right gasket. I think that was a problem there. I didn’t have the right gasket. I had to wait a week for the gasket to come in because the guy who has a gasket shop was on vacation and I was only gasket shop in town, things like that, you know, so, uh, you just learned to really go with the flow, but yeah, it was good that I had Flacco and a Toyota and a car that was down there a lot.

Crew Chief Eric: So now we’re in Bolivia and things get interesting, right?

Joey Jordan IV: They get interesting again, but in kind of a better, more lighthearted way, at least this time. One interesting thing about Bolivia too, is their gas is subsidized, but only for locals because they had too many people coming from Brazil and Peru buying their cheap gas and then driving back over.

So for me, there’s only like a few gas stations in the whole country that they can legally sell gas to tourists for. So that was a whole interesting deal. What I ended up doing was just trying to make friends with a local, paying them a little off the top and having them pretend like it was their car, and filling up that way.

So that was cool, got to meet a bunch of cool local [00:51:00] people, but also had some times where I was just out of gas. My go to move, there’s a few times it happened, I would just go into a bar, find someone who was, you know, Kind of lubed up and asked them if they want to make a little extra money by helping me out and getting me some gas.

We’d go fill up my jerry cans, fill up the gas, put it in my car, and then away we’d go. As I mentioned earlier, I had a friend I came with from Peru. I fell in love with the city called Sucre, Bolivia. Stayed there for a while and, um, met a lot of friends. A big thing that I knew I really wanted to do since the very beginning daydreamings of this trip when I was just like a 14, 15 years old when it was just like a thing I would do instead of studying biology was go to the Salt Flats.

A uni. That’s the name of the place. It’s the biggest salt flats in the world. Really beautiful. It looks like it’s just desolate. It looks like you’re on a different planet. And sometimes when it rains it gets that crazy mirrored effect. Like, and it’s just, just beautiful. So I knew I wanted to do that trip, but I kind of wanted some people to do it with.

I had a lot of solitude earlier. [00:52:00] Now it’s starting to flip to go back to more of a social travel. I ended up assembling a crew of 10 people. I met another Australian with a Range Rover, who was kind of doing the same thing. And we geared up and we go to camp out in these salt flats. And it was a dry season, so we weren’t going to get any of the rain.

It’s a lot of people who aren’t used to like camping so much. I think we had two German girls, two French girls, one that is now still currently my girlfriend and lives with me, and two Americans, three Australians. So it was quite the eclectic group. We were a good crew and we go out there and you basically can island hop.

There used to be these islands there and you like camp on the islands. And we’re not with the tour guides, which is great and beautiful. Cause that’s what I wanted. So I’m leading these group of cars and it’s like on the second or third day, we’re kind of cruising along an Island that we wanted to go camp back.

Cause it looked like a butt. So we wanted to see if it really was a butt. And so we drove over there and it wasn’t a butt. It was an Island. Basically I was driving the [00:53:00] road. The ground just falls out from underneath my car and comes to a pretty abrupt stop. We get out. My van is just completely stuck.

Like in the mud, basically the crust of salt fell through and broke. And it’s something I knew happened like in the wet season. They said, never drive close to the islands because this can happen. Like the water will seep through and the crust will fall. And you’ll go into like this mucky, mucky mud. And so the Australian loved it.

He was like, ha ha, your little Toyota can’t make it out of there now. Let me hook up my winch to you and pull you out. He was loving that I was stuck as a good friend would. And as soon as he tried to pull out, he cracked through with the winch. So now we had both cars stuck and the Range

Crew Chief Eric: Rover is much heavier than the Toyota.

Joey Jordan IV: Oh yeah. It started sinking fast. And like once it was in the mud, it was going further and deeper in. So we were stuck. We were 20 miles away from the nearest post where we knew we could probably find people, but we were 20 miles away from anybody. Stuck, stuck. We tried some pretty ingenuitive things. Like we buried a huge boulder.

We dug into the sand. Salt [00:54:00] bed and like into the mud and buried a huge boulder and try to winch to that boulder. We named it Rocky. He ended up being like another Wilson of that stuff experience. He was a table after that. He was, you know, a chair. But yeah, Rocky couldn’t pull us out. The Australian guy was super prepared and he had like, what are those jacks called?

Like they’re, you kind of ratchet them up and they go up on. Oh yeah, he had one of those, but everything would just sink through and it was getting worse. Like once he broke the crust, the mud was kind of like spreading. So yeah, we were stuck there and I was kind of like, great. This is an adventure. We got to figure this out.

And the Australian guy was loving it, but everyone else was like freaking out this crew of people. Like they don’t know how we’re going to get out of there. We’re trying to come up with some plans, but. Overall, it was a good, fun experience. The Australian guy actually had a satellite phone that he could send text messages to, but we’re still in a very remote area and we only have American numbers.

So how are they going to be able to contact this little dusty town called the Uni to send the right people to come and get us [00:55:00] without them sending like the military or somebody we didn’t want there. So, I think it was after day three or four. Of camping there and trying to figure different stuff out.

Finally, the Californian that I’ve been traveling with, his brother spoke pretty good Spanish. He was also an avid traveler, figured out to hire like, I don’t know what they did, but just some guys to come out in their trucks and dig us out of there. What we essentially had to do is build another road underneath the car.

So we would dig, they had a bunch of jacks, we’d lift up the car a little bit and then put rocks underneath it. And then put it down, then lift up the other side, put rocks underneath it. And we just kept doing that and the rocks would sink, but eventually that would settle until we built the road out of all the rocks on butt Island.

Um, so that took, uh, that took like a good day’s work. I think we finished in the middle of the night. Just in time when we started to run out of, you know, some essentials, uh, we still had a decent amount of water. We’re out of beer at that point and almost out of pasta. So, so did you

Crew Chief Eric: use the Land Rover still to pull the Toyota or do you have to do the work for both cars?

Joey Jordan IV: [00:56:00] Actually, we use one of their trucks and a Land Rover to pull me out. But Flacco got out pretty easily once they were like, they knew where the solid ground was, the locals, they were like kicking it and they knew where they could kind of set up from and anchor down. Yeah, that was a pretty wild experience, you know, just kind of being stranded 20 miles from people.

We were considering a lot of things like, all right, do we send someone out to go walk to that place where we think there’s people in a really brutal climate? Like with a bunch of water, do we send them to go tell them that we’re stuck? We consider that we were pretty close to doing that, but the weather there was extremely harsh because the salt is like a mirror for the sun, but it was also extremely cold.

It’d get down to freezing at night and very windy. So there’s all the extremes of temperature and climate. There’s a road probably like a mile away, cars would drive maybe twice a day on, that we learned after like day two or three. And one day I don’t think they drove at all, so we built a sign like with cardboard and a sharpie out of Spanish like, please help us.

I was on duty at the sign when a car came and they stopped and talked [00:57:00] to us. Problem was, they didn’t speak Spanish, they spoke Incan. And they were terrified of us. I don’t speak any Incan. That was like the month two of knowing that the Incans had their own language and people still spoke it down there.

So yeah, they drove off scared and just drove away from us. I thought we were going to like rob them or we were like some cannibals or something. Um, didn’t help us, but it was just interesting to consider all those.

Crew Chief Eric: So after you pull Flacco out of the muck and the mire, did he fire right back up and continue the journey or did you have to fix it before you kept going?

Joey Jordan IV: No, he was fine. Like we dug a hole, I think, from the exhaust. We were actually able to run it and like turn on the heater and stuff and use it. It was just the bed was really crooked and like the kitchen, you know, you had to build something for the stove to make sure it was flat. It ran fine. I drove it out of there.

We just had to get a very extensive like bath because it’s covered in like salt, essentially, and he’s already a rust bucket. So [00:58:00] we tried to wash it as best I could. I remember the guy like power washing it like chunks of rust were just flying everywhere. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know if this is doing any good or bad.

Like this power wash is a little too aggressive, but uh.

Crew Chief Eric: So Bolivia is not where the journey ends. So where did you go from there?

Joey Jordan IV: I think some of that crew was mad at me, so we parted ways with some of them because I got everyone stuck. Then I narrowed down to a group of five of us and we went into Chile or Chile.

Things really changed there quickly. It’s a much more advanced country. I kind of needed that at that point after slugging it for a while like a good like six months up to that point of not living with nice things at all. Chile was really cool. You know they had really interesting things as you’re going through the Andes.

They had roads that actually had more grip in the corners. So it’d be safer. So it was like a softer compound of asphalt and it was a different color. So it’d be like safer and you could go through the corners a little bit quicker. So that was pretty cool. But there’s a lot of things in Chile that are much more advanced and like more advanced in a [00:59:00] lot of ways and things that we have here, like free wifi everywhere.

The roads were way better than the roads in California. And just did a lot of surfing, hanging out the cars there started to get nicer. You started to see newer cars. I didn’t get to see it, but they had a really cool racing series where they race a bunch of Fiat’s. You can find it by reverse mapping it through Wikipedia.

I remember seeing these videos of them racing them, like in a Hawaiian shirt and just like a neck roll helmet with no visor. And they’re racing these guys. Through dirt and asphalt and like a mixed like road course right on the coast of the ocean. There’s definitely a very alive and well like car culture there.

I just didn’t get to explore as much. But then from Chile, I went into Argentina for kind of the last leg of my trip. Flaco and me, our honeymoon phase is long gone. He had one more cross the Andes in him. I mean, in Bolivia was up to 16, 000 feet. It started its life with 91 horsepower, 6, 000 feet elevation.

I don’t know. It felt like it had four horsepower. [01:00:00] Yeah. Uh, cross the Andes again from Chile to Argentina and Argentina almost felt like Europe, you know,

Crew Chief Eric: there’s a lot of Italian and German expats in Argentina.

Joey Jordan IV: Yes, there is. Yes, there is. Yeah. And everything’s like really nice and new except for one key thing.

And that is their cars. They have a heavy tax on new cars. So they have the coolest, oldest cars there. All the cars are like stuck in like the seventies and eighties and they just keep them alive. I loved just being on the streets and seeing cars. I don’t even know what they were driving by, like a bunch of really old French cars, bunch of old Fiat’s, but just had so much more character and style.

I think that’s when I like cemented in, like, I think I just like older cars now, you know?

Crew Chief Eric: So did you make it to your goal of getting to Patagonia?

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, I did. Despite Flacco trying to make that not happen. I was getting flat tires. It was starting to overheat a lot for mysterious reasons. It was just the rust issues.

Like I couldn’t even close one door. Hardly things were just [01:01:00] falling apart after the salt flats on poor Flacco. You know, I hung on Argentina for a while. Drank cheap wine, ate cheap steak, and then I parted ways with everyone that I knew because I kind of wanted to do this end journey on my own. Really the mountain that I was going for in Patagonia is called Mount Fitz Roy.

I eventually made it there and that was a really cool feeling to make it and finish it. The whole reason why Trip started was because I was in a science class when I was probably 14 years old, wasn’t paying attention to some documentary that was put on. And they showed a clip of what I would later learn to be Mount Fitz Roy.

And there was a road leading up to it. And the road looks so like nice. Like it looked like a really cool road, but this mountain just like grabbed at me. And I was like, wow, where’s that? And they started talking about Patagonia. Then I opened up my science book and I found where Patagonia was. And I saw it was all collected by land.

And So my first thought happened from Mount Fitz Roy. Ever since that moment, I started kind of daydreaming about the ability to drive all the way down there with some adventure. [01:02:00] I never really gave it any weight to, cause I was pursuing racing until my breakup with racing happened. It was a pretty powerful moment to be seeing my van at the side of that road from the same image that like it looked exactly the same as the documentary that we watched.

It was pretty powerful too because I felt like I was free from this big journey that I did. You know, I had to go back to Ecuador after I got robbed because I couldn’t go the rest of my life wondering what if I finished. Now the story was done and I was free from that burden of what if I saw my mountain.

Great, great feeling. Flaca was done. I was done at that point and then I made my way back home. Did you

Crew Chief Eric: do like Richard Hammond, bring it home with you and now it’s a prized possession or anything?

Joey Jordan IV: Sold the van.

Crew Chief Eric: So you sold the van at the end of it all, huh?

Joey Jordan IV: I love Flacco and great great car and like I owe him so much my perspective that I have now like I was forever changed from that trip, you know, and I have all the love for him, but I was ready to part ways, you know, it was like it [01:03:00] wasn’t gonna be worth the trouble.

It was like it was a miracle it made it down there. But yeah, I ended up selling it to some rock climbers down there, a couple of Americans. That’s kind of the only way you can do it, is sell it to other people who are from America down there. Yeah, I sold it to some like ranch and had a horseback out of there where I sold it to them.

And that was it. And I was pretty ready to come home after that.

Crew Chief Eric: So obviously, You think about it often. It’s changed your whole life and your whole latitude. It’s redefined who you are as a person, especially, you know, you know, now is let’s call it a more mature adult, right? Then when you started the whole trip,

Joey Jordan IV: barely,

Crew Chief Eric: but you found yourself back in racing again, did it change the way you look at racing?

Did it change cars for you? I mean, how did it change that side of you now that you find yourself back in that world again?

Joey Jordan IV: It kind of showed me how to re engage. Racing in a different way, how to have a different relationship with it. And it showed me even when I try, I can’t run from cars and racing. I, there’s a genuine love and [01:04:00] passion for the sport, the activity for cars.

And I can’t run from it. The problems that caused me to leave racing aren’t things that I should just bury away. They’re things that I should try to maybe address and help kind of change and mold my own path in this racing world. I think it just gave me. A good, fresh perspective. That’s it. Yeah. So

Crew Chief Eric: if you had to do it all over again, knowing what you know now, would you do it and what would you do different?

Joey Jordan IV: Oh yeah. Of course I would do it with all the cracked ribs and robberies and all of it. Absolutely. But the knowledge I have now, I probably wouldn’t take that beat up of a car. Flacco gave me a little too many adventures. And I would just travel a lot slower, not try to like bounce around so much because I really enjoyed the time to think.

If I would do it again, I think I would fly to a country, just buy one of their cars there, and just travel around that one country in their car. Because crossing the borders was such a crazy, crazy headache. So if that’s [01:05:00] the

Crew Chief Eric: case, what would you buy now, knowing what’s available down there?

Joey Jordan IV: I think I would fly in and see what everyone else is driving.

I would drive with the taxis we’re driving. So you got to get a

Crew Chief Eric: Toyota Hilux. I mean, come on.

Joey Jordan IV: Yeah, but those are a hot commodity down there. I’d rather be like in a tiny, small car and like look hilarious. I don’t know. I think I’d get an old taxi car or an old ambulance, you know? Or just see what just kind of catches my eye and looks cool.

It’s a lot easier to buy a car in the same country and then sell it. And because I learned I like to travel slow, like I could spend six months in just Peru or even longer. So yeah, I think that’s what I would change. But

Crew Chief Eric: do you think you’ll go back?

Joey Jordan IV: Absolutely. Certain countries I’m more eager to go back than others.

But absolutely love to go back. I kind of want to make some plans. If I can find some more remote work, I want to move to La Paz, Bolivia for like a few months because it’s one of the craziest cities ever. It’s like Disneyland. They go around on gondolas. So like the things that you go on, like in a ski lift, that’s their taxis.

Cause it’s like sitting in this bowl. So they just have gondolas [01:06:00] taking people everywhere. It’s just such a bizarre, weird, cool city. I would like to sit there for a few months and see where my mind goes. And I know they have some cool racing in Bolivia as well. So it’d be cool to check that out. Towards the end of my trip, when I started to learn what I liked about that journey, I got to spend six months about just.

kind of thinking, especially on the back of almost dying, thinking I was going to die. And that was a beautiful thing. So I do it again, do it slower. Don’t care about where I go, how I get there. Spend some really good quality time with myself and some cool other cultures.

Crew Chief Eric: I think there’s some important valuable points there.

It’s been said probably a million times if it’s been said once, right? It’s not about the destination. It’s all about the journey, but I think you brought something else up. That’s very important that I’ve said before, even on this show, which is driving that love of driving. Getting behind the wheel, not really knowing where you’re going.

Joey Jordan IV: We just get caught up on the rat race and we just kind of check the next box.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re not having to be beholden to your [01:07:00] phone or people or email and all this stuff. And the day to day grind, just getting behind the wheel and going somewhere. There’s just something about that. That’s undescribable. You know, a lot of people talk about, well, I can’t stand to drive.

I can’t wait for autonomous driving vehicles and all this kind of stuff. And I say to myself, You’re missing out. You’re missing the bigger picture. Those epic road trips are what it’s really all about. I mean, you don’t get the same experience on a plane, right? You take off, you float, you come back down.

It’s not the same thing. Yeah. Suddenly in a different place. But to your point, this is pretty extreme. It’s. Absolutely epic, but so many life lessons learned so many things that you’ll look back on forever and you can pass that on to other people. So I can’t thank you enough for coming on and sharing this story with us.

And I really hope that we can get together again and talk more about your love of driving and how that’s changed your framework and how it’s changed your mentality and how it’s Helping you change the world of racing. Cause I think you have some thoughts on that. So I don’t want to [01:08:00] give away too many things, but I think this is super cool.

Joey Jordan IV: Yes. Yes. Thank you for having me on and yeah, let’s, uh, get a little bit of my, uh, adventure perspective into today’s racing. I think we could do some cool stuff. Talk about some cool things, put all my six months of introspective thought into work. And, uh, yeah, just want to touch on one last point, like what you said about cars and with the road trips, it is complete freedom.

I really fell in love with just cars in general and their ability to kind of just transport you to places you would never even dream of. You didn’t even know existed. And those are the parts of my trip that I valued the most was, you know, if I flew there, I’d have to take these buses and they would, they only go on certain roads.

I had families take me in, you know, like from a little farming village, I met all these people and saw these cool places because the freedom that the car had. Can give you

Crew Chief Eric: like I always say, cars are not appliances. They are tools to be used for all sorts of different things, including adventures like this.

So listeners, [01:09:00] if you want to learn more about Joey and his adventures, you can hit him up on social media on Instagram at Joey Jordan IV, that’s Joey Jordan, the fourth, or if you’re in the LA area, stop by and request him as your coach at the Porsche experience center in LA. So Joey, again, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show.

It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Joey Jordan IV: Thank you so much, Eric. I look forward to talking to all you guys soon.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Touring Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix. And we wanted to [01:10:00] remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newtons, gummy bears, and Monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
01:08 Meet Joey Jordan: From GT Racing to South America
02:13 The Journey Begins: Driving to South America
03:07 Adventures in Mexico: Surfing and WRC
05:03 Travel Companions and Belizean Discoveries
13:46 Challenges in Nicaragua and Costa Rica
16:22 Ingenious Modifications and Border Troubles
22:41 Panama: Soul Searching and Shipping Plans
23:46 Colombian Hardships: Robbery and Recovery
36:51 Returning to California
37:49 Back to Ecuador
39:14 Reuniting with Flacco
41:57 Challenges in Peru
46:48 Adventures in Bolivia
58:21 Exploring Chile
59:39 Final Leg in Argentina
01:03:24 Reflecting on the Journey
01:05:34 Future Plans and Final Thoughts

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

Learn more about the might Toyota HiAce

To keep up with Joey, tune into SRO Motorsports TC America series and watch his progress, or hit him up on social @joeyjordaniv on Instagram. And stay tuned for future episode with Joey where we discuss some of his ideas for the future of Motorsports.

Joey’s journey took a dark turn in Nicaragua, where political protests and roadblocks made travel dangerous. He needed to reach Costa Rica for another race, but at the border, officials refused entry – Costa Rica bans right-hand-drive vehicles. Trapped between two countries, Joey hatched a wild plan: fabricate a second steering wheel on the left side of Flacco.

In a diesel-soaked parking lot, local mechanics welded a second steering rack, connected by pulleys and belts. The pedals remained on the right. Joey drove solo, steering from the left while operating the clutch and throttle with his left hand. “It was like driving a stick shift with one hand while steering with the other,” he said. “Top Gear-style chaos.”

Joey Jordan and his Toyota HiAce Flaco getting stuck in the sand — Photo courtesy Joey Jordan IV

Border Trouble and No-Man’s Land

Joey and a Canadian friend attempted to cross into Costa Rica at midnight, hoping the fake dash would fool border agents. They made it through eight checkpoints before “El Jefe” spotted the missing pedals. Joey was denied entry and sent back – only to find Nicaragua had changed its laws and now banned right-hand-drive vehicles too.

Stuck in a 200-yard strip of no-man’s land between countries, Joey dubbed it “Nicarica.” He spent days in a fenced yard with other stranded travelers, eventually negotiating to tow Flacco across Costa Rica into Panama – for $4,000.

Panama and the Darien Gap

In Panama, Joey regrouped. He spearfished, surfed, and reflected. “I was young, 23, just trying to figure out my life,” he said. But the journey wasn’t over. To reach Colombia, he had to ship Flacco across the infamous Darien Gap – a jungle so treacherous it’s impassable by vehicle.

Joey Jordan and his Toyota HiAce Flaco setting off into the mountains — Photo courtesy Joey Jordan IV

Colombia and Beyond

By the time Joey reached Colombia, he had mastered vanlife. He lived cheaply, harvested coconuts, and spearfished for food. Racing felt distant, but cars remained central. He observed the improvisational genius of Central American mechanics – hay-stuffed tires, propane conversions, and roadside repairs. “Everyone’s a mechanic down there,” he said. “You have to be.” As he ventured deeper into South America, Joey saw car culture evolve – more personality, more passion, and more stories waiting to be told.

Joey Jordan’s journey wasn’t just a road trip – it was a soul-searching, wrench-turning, volcano-dodging odyssey. From heartbreak to horsepower, Flacco carried him through it all. And somewhere along the way, Joey found not just his way back to motorsports – but back to himself.

The following content has been brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, Crowdstrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School.

From Moped to Motorsport Legend: The Andy Pilgrim Story

Gran T

August 9, 2022

From Moped to Motorsport Legend: The Andy Pilgrim Story

What do the 12 Hours of Sebring, Petit Le Mans, the Rolex 24, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, GT races on five continents, Pikes Peak, and NASCAR all have in common? One British-born driver who’s raced – and often won – across them all: Andy Pilgrim.

In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we dive into the remarkable journey of a man who went from a car-obsessed toddler in the UK to a motorsports icon in America. His story is one of grit, humor, and relentless passion for anything with an engine.

Andy’s first words weren’t “mommy” or “daddy”—they were “Mike Hawthorne,” shouted in excitement while listening to a race on the radio. His parents, who had zero interest in cars, were baffled. But for Andy, the obsession was instant and irreversible. He’d jump into visitors’ cars like a loyal dog, fascinated by the sounds and smells of machinery.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

With no family ties to racing, Andy’s first taste of speed came via a £3 moped he rebuilt himself. Later, as a young computer programmer, he used his earnings to enter local motorcycle races. Riding to the track, racing, and then riding home – if he didn’t crash – was the norm. Sometimes, a friend with a bread delivery van would haul his bike, giving Andy the best-smelling ride in the paddock.

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix, Andy Pilgrim, a renowned British-born racing driver, shares his inspirational story. Andy discusses his early fascination with cars and motorcycles, his unexpected start in racing during his late 20s, and his rise through the ranks to become a celebrated driver in series like the IMSA and SRO Motorsports. He also shares insights on his driving experiences and techniques, the differences between front-engine and mid-engine Corvettes, and the importance of data in modern racing. Andy also talks about his work with the Traffic Safety Education Foundation, aiming to improve driving safety through education. The episode underscores Andy’s dedication to racing, his continuous learning approach, and his commitment to giving back to the community.

Let’s talk about a little lad named Andy, back in the UK… were you always interested in cars? What kinds of cars or drivers inspired you to get into racing?
You came to the states in the 1980s as a computer programmer, becoming a US citizen in 1998; how did you get started in the world of Motorsports?
How did you go from grassroots racing to the larger endurance stage? What was that like? Who did you study under?
Let’s talk more about your racing experience, Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing. Winner of the 12 hrs of Sebring, 2 wins at the Petit LeMans Road Atlanta, 3 wins at the 24 hrs of Rolex, 1 overall, 2 GT class; 5 podiums at the 24 hrs of LeMans.
You’ve been involved for many years with the National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park. Talk to us about the track, and how a Test Track differs from a Race Track?
C7 vs C8 Corvette – your thoughts?
You also give back to the community at large through your Traffic Safety Education Foundation – what this is all about?
Where is Andy now? Your involvement in GT3/GT4 racing, Ferrari & Porsche and in racing in the SRO GT America, International GT and GT Celebration series this year.

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by S r o Motorsports America and their partners at a W s CrowdStrike, Fantech Pelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www.sromotorsports.com or take a shortcut to GT America us and be sure to follow them on social at GT America, on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook.

and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT World.[00:01:00]

The 12 Hours of Sebring, Petit Le Mans, the Rolex 24, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, GT races on five continents, the Pikes Peak Hill Climb, and NASCAR. What do all these have in common? Well, they have a British born racing driver who has competed in all of them, won many, some more than once. Some of you might know him best from his days with Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing.

That’s right. Our guest on Brake Fix tonight is the legendary Andy Pilgrim. So welcome to the show, Andy.

Andy Pilgrim: Thanks, Eric. Wow, what an introduction. Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: So like every good Brake Fix story, we always love to start with an origin. So let’s talk about a little lad named Andy back in the UK. Were you always interested in cars?

Andy Pilgrim: Yes, absolutely. I was always interested in cars. It was quite befuddling to my parents who had absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. [00:02:00] According to my mother, she was ironing and I was in my crib, supposedly. I hadn’t said anything, mommy, daddy, nothing. Listening to the radio, apparently there was a race on the radio, probably Formula 1 or something back in, this would be the 19, late 50s.

Mike Hawthorne was a racer back then. According to my mom, she said suddenly from nowhere I was sort of standing in the curb. I started like jumping up and down. My first words, I said my Hawthorne, my Hawthorne, my hor, my Hawthorne. Over and over and over again. Now I kind of worried my father because he was a little concerned, you know, about this.

You know, she assured him that she didn’t know my callthorne and that apparently was my first words. So it’s pretty much been downhill since then, mate.

Crew Chief Eric: So, were there any cars that inspired you as well outside of the formula One.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, it was a radio, you know, radio, we didn’t, we didn’t actually have a TV, honestly, back then, and the noises, I started making car noises, and it was just fascinating to me, as a child, I just liked the cars, and I was fascinated with cars, I [00:03:00] would follow cars, I would look at cars, I would jump in people’s cars, if they came to visit, I would, like a dog, you know, the dog goes out, it jumps in a car, I was the kid, I ran out, I went, jumped in the car, when they were leaving, And it’s like, you know, let’s go for a ride type of thing.

You know, if someone had a car, we had a car. I don’t know where it really came from. There was no racing or anything in the family. The local racetrack had motorcycle road races. My dad liked motorcycle. He never was interested in cars at all. He did take me to watch motorcycle road races when I was very young.

You know, that’s probably the only connection with racing that I have.

Crew Chief Eric: So is that where you got interested in motorcycles? Because that’s another passion of yours is the two wheeled variety of vehicles.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, definitely that became an interest just in the sense of listening to the bikes, uh, having friends when I was old enough to think about getting a moped or something very, very inexpensive.

Secondhand transportation, the moped was the way to go 50 cc’s, zero to 25 miles an hour down a cliff in a week. It was [00:04:00] pretty ridiculous. The mopeds were. Very, very, very slow, but it was anything with an engine fascinated certain young lads. I was one of those young lads. And if somebody had a something with an engine, you just stand around and look at it, you know, and see, when’s it going to start?

Can I have a ride? And it was usually at that point, of course, early days mopeds.

Crew Chief Eric: So we’ve talked to other guests on the show that came from the UK and they said turning wrenches wasn’t a passion. It was part of the lifestyle, right? Cause a lot of the cars were, let’s say unreliable and things like that.

So did you find yourself turning wrenches at an early age, maybe working on your family car?

Andy Pilgrim: No, my dad didn’t like cars. He was sort of a chemist. His brain was sort of more a chemical brain. He had no interest in the car aspect. He was engineering based. He would build furniture or he would do some scrap metal sculptures for fun and stuff in his garage, but not the car stuff.

I only got involved in cars once I had a paper round and then I had a bicycle. And then I sold, eventually I sold a bicycle to buy a very cheap moped. [00:05:00] Literally it was 3 to buy this thing. And it had to be rebuilt. So I had to try and learn how to rebuild the engine to make it run. And that’s essentially where it started.

But turning wrenches was something I had to do. Once I did try to start racing something that then I had to work on it myself. Of course. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: So at what age did you find yourself beginning to race? Was that in your teenage years or?

Andy Pilgrim: No, not at all. I ended up out of college. I went into computer programming, but I had no wheels to speak of at that time, except a secondhand motorcycle.

And I ended up taking that bike with the money that I started earning as a programmer, stuck some numbers on it and found myself at a local racetrack and ended up entering some races. This was mortifying to my parents. I mean, they were like, what on earth are you thinking? This is crazy. It’s dangerous and all this stuff.

But I was on the street riding a guy that I knew who was the manager of the Kawasaki dealership. He saw [00:06:00] me riding like a moron on the street and when he saw me at the dealership, he basically, you know, stuck me up against the wall. And if I see you riding like an idiot, you’re going to kill yourself. If you think you’re fast, get yourself on the racetrack.

I don’t ride like a moron. That’s sort of stuck with me because I was scared of him and I ended up trying to get my bike on the racetrack. It wasn’t particularly reliable. It wasn’t new. It was a seven, eight year old thing. I ended up wobbling through some races and early, fairly early on, I ended up winning the class.

It was a lower class bike, but I ended up scrapping with guys. And I was quick, quick enough to win, you know, win races from very, very, very early, just because I was probably nuts. I mean, because 55 percent of the races are in the wet. So it was an interesting beginning, but that’s how it started was when I had enough money, had a job, earned money, spent the money on the motorcycle to try and race.

I didn’t have a truck trailer, nothing. I either wrote it to the [00:07:00] races. Which was nuts because then you were just standing around in the wet and cold. Then you’d race it and then ride it home if you didn’t crash it. If I was lucky, a friend with a van who had a bread round at three o’clock in the morning, he was done with his bread round.

He’d come to the house, pick up the bike. I’d pay him gas money and drop me off at the racetrack. I had the best smelling motorcycle in the paddock. It smelled like bread. Everyone come by like, who’s baking bread? It’s like, you know, so it was pretty funny actually.

Crew Chief Eric: So this is the, let’s say late seventies at this point, right?

Andy Pilgrim: Late seventies into 1980, into 1980. I ended up getting sponsored after a year, year and a half. I was in the British production bike championship in the second year. I basically bought this. Newer bike, and was in the British 500cc production championship, ended up finishing second in the British championship, very competitive, and that was sort of into 1981, and then I got a job offer to come to the US as a computer programmer.

That’s where the switch happened over here. So. After less than two and a half years racing stuff and working full time in England, and then I [00:08:00] suddenly found myself in the U. S. I’d always wanted to come here. Always wanted to come to the U. S. Offered the job, you come over here and you start with a one year contract.

And I had an older friend of the family who was probably 10 years older than me. He was like an older brother, if you like. He went to California, had stories of the sunshine and warmth. And I hated cold weather. I still can’t stand cold weather. I’d always had this, probably from eight years old, I’d had this dream watching American shows on television in England when we had, you know, when we got TV and stuff.

Um, it was just, uh, it was just, I’d always wanted to come here. And little did I know at the time when I got into computer programming, that was a, almost a direct ticket to the U. S. because there weren’t enough. Programmers coming out of the U. S. education system that still aren’t. So I was one of those very lucky early ones to come in with the, uh, trade, if you like, to be a programmer.

And that’s how I got to the U. S.

Crew Chief Eric: So you hit the shores and you quickly realized America is huge and you need a car. So what was the first car you bought when you got here?

Andy Pilgrim: I was at Pontiac in Michigan as a computer [00:09:00] programmer, GM Pontiac, which was kind of strange. And I ended up back there as a racer years later and stuff.

One of the people in the office, her husband was selling their car, a 1972 Chevy Malibu Classic, and it had done a lot of miles, but it had done long runs. I guess it was an hour trip to work and back or something. And they said the car was pretty good. And I paid a thousand, I think, no, 500. I paid 500 for the car.

And it lasted me 45, 000 miles. It was amazing. That car was great. All I kept to do is put tires on it and brakes occasionally. But, uh, yeah, second hand tires. Couldn’t afford the new ones, but it was, uh, I was on first name basis with the local scrap yard and I go to look for tires for the car. Yeah. And I went from Michigan to El Paso after a year, Michigan winter just about killed me.

So I ended up going down to El Paso for my next contract. There was no racing or anything at this point.

Crew Chief Eric: So it’s kind of funny if our listeners were paying attention, your history with GM goes way back and we’re going to dive into that a little bit

Andy Pilgrim: more. If you think about it, yes. Sure.

Crew Chief Eric: The part of your story that really [00:10:00] engaged me that I found endearing and it speaks to me on a level growing VW Porsche Audi family is that when we first met many years ago, you told me the story about how you did get into racing in the United States and you started in two things.

A autocross and B with a Volkswagen GTI.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. The first go around in the Volkswagen GTI. So I was in El Paso. Everything was, uh, looking interesting and the Chevy Malibu classic was getting a little long in the tooth. And so eventually I thought, you know, a Volkswagen GTI was like, it was a Lamborghini as far as anything from a kid from the UK could even dream about.

And even though the US GTR wasn’t as light and it wasn’t as powerful as the European version, it was just wow to me. This 1983 car that I bought probably at the end of 1982 in El Paso, and it was a brand new car. And I was like, Oh, I couldn’t believe it. So I run around on that thing for a while. And [00:11:00] one day going down I 10, I saw a C 3 Corvette flying across a parking lot at Silla Vista Mall in El Paso.

And I thought, what the heck? And I looked, and I saw cones, and I saw this car. Parking lot was pretty much empty. I just went, what is that? So I got off the freeway, went around and, and looked. Sure, sure enough, it was an S C C A autocross going on, literally that by luck going by. And I didn’t know what A C C A was.

I didn’t know what autocross was. I had no idea that this was the local chapter of S E C A and their, their autocross was going on at Cali. I joined S E C A and the next time they had an autocross, I showed up with my Volkswagen Rabbit, and that’s how Autocross started. And that was 1983. Yep. And that was so much fun.

Great people. I still remember those, those people from there. They were wonderful.

Crew Chief Eric: So you got all your car control under wraps. You learned how to go fast in a front wheel drive. How do you move from, let’s say the grassroots world of autocross to the larger stage, not jumping all the way forward to endurance and that, but how did you make that [00:12:00] progression from autocross to becoming a professional driver?

Andy Pilgrim: The autocross availability for space in El Paso is limited. So you go further afield. Roswell, New Mexico was one of the places, you know, alien central UFOs and all that stuff. And I didn’t know about that connection when we went to Roswell, but it was a couple of hours drive out of El Paso to Roswell. 10 people would make these treks out to Roswell and Clovis Air Force Base, which was further away.

So we went to Roswell Pettengill. Jim Pattengill wrote for Grassroots Motorsports, the magazine, great magazine. He saw me at Roswell. Now the thing with Roswell was it was a triangle of a disused old airfield from Second World War training base probably or something like that. They had about seven cones.

And they have this triangle, like half a mile, literally speaking, it was a hundred mile an hour slalom and another 80 mile an hour slalom and 120 degree corners at each, each point, it was just stupid. [00:13:00] So I’m in this 90 horsepower rabbit screaming along going through the autocross on three wheels and all this stuff.

Jim Pattengill came up to me and said, you know, you’re pretty quick. You should try racing. And I said, well, you’ve got any money. I’ll be happy to do that because I don’t have any money. We had a nice, really nice conversation. And he said, well, you know, just keep doing what you do. It’s great. You know, you’re coming back.

And I did come back three months later to another event. They, we’ve got, they had another event three months later and we trucked back up. I didn’t think really, I didn’t think about Jim Pattengill in the meantime, he came up during that event and showed me a thing in grassroots motorsports where. A guy was selling a Renault cup and he took the time to explain this is an IMSA series, Renault Cup, Renault Alliances on the west coast and Renault Encores on the east coast.

Renault supports it and these cars are street legal and this car is second hand for 6, 500 bucks. Because I told him I said I don’t want to race for trophies. Got to race for [00:14:00] money. If there’s any chance to do anything with racing, you know, we had to chat and I said, I didn’t, I wouldn’t want to race for trophies and things.

I need to, if I’m any good, I want to learn as fast as possible. If I’m any good and not waste my whole life or money doing it. So he gave me the ad. I called the guy, I was in Nevada. Long story short, I borrowed some money off a bank manager in El Paso. I only had 3, 500 in savings, I remember. This guy lent me 3, 000 for furniture for my apartment.

It was the other half of the car, essentially, and gave me a bit of spare money for the first race. And so I figured if he ever came to the house and checked the car, I’d take the seats out of the race car and put them in the living room and say, furniture. So that’s what happened. And I got this Renault Cup car, drove it to the races, and that’s how it started.

Essentially, the first race was Riverside, California, in 1984, was the first round of the West Coast Series. 51 cars entered. It was actually on ESPN. Believe it or not, that race was on TV. Crazy. I [00:15:00] ended up qualifying 18th out of 51, and I finished 9th, and I won 500. I mean, I was sleeping in the car or we’d have like 12 of us in one hotel room or something.

Cause you know, there was a bunch of guys that were just, we didn’t have the, you know, a lot of money and where we could save money. We would, I mean that 500, I thought I won the Indy 500. Honestly, it was like 146 for a set of four tires for that car. I still have a receipt. So 500 was tremendous and I didn’t crash the car.

Otherwise it’d be taking a bus home. And that would have been it. But I managed to make it through that year with the car, got a couple of podiums in that year, one rookie of the year with that car. That was the end of 1984. 85, I did a couple more Renault Cup races, but sold the car for 3, 000. And that money, having sold the car was the money that I put into buying two weekends in a Firestone Firehawk car in 1986.

And that sort of was that transition because the rental [00:16:00] car series died and I was like, Oh, well, that might be it for racing did a bit of NCCA racing with a Mustang, a dealer out of Texas, sort of had a car and he said you can drive my car. That was 85. Met somebody who prepared that Mustang, who was also preparing Pontiacs in the Firestone Fire series.

I knew nothing about that. At the end of the season, he said, you know, blah, blah, what are you going to do? You’ve really done quite well in that Mustang. And I said, well, I’ve got 3, 000. And he called me and said, that’ll buy you two races at the beginning of 1986. Season in a fire some fire if you want to do it.

And that was all savings. I had nothing outside. Nothing else. That was all my savings. That’s how I got into that series. I’ll stop there instead of just dribbling along the whole way.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it brings up a very good segue, which is did you practice your craft on your own back then? There was no data. So you’re obviously driving by feel or did you have coaches?

Did you have people helping you along or was it all 1 race at a time? School of hard knocks.

Andy Pilgrim: I [00:17:00] mean, there was no coach motorcycles. And I had an idea about apexing, but I didn’t even call it an apex because I was, you know, you go from outside to inside to outside and you’ve, some corners are different to others.

And no, I didn’t know anybody to do anything like, you know, I think most people guys back then they did, they just learned, they just were quick and. They got quicker and they learned and it became more structured over the years. It became way more structured, as you say, with data and coaches and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: So did you find yourself following anyone using them as like a lead follow as an example?

Andy Pilgrim: Oh, 150%. If someone caught me up, instead of trying to block them, I’d let them by and try and learn where they were quicker. And that’s exactly what I did. And that wasn’t like I was the fastest guy out there.

Immediately. I had to learn how to handle the car fast corners in those cars, kind of like a Mazda Miata. You just kind of, I want to say, throw it in, but you drifted in. You want that very slight drift angle all the way through these fast corners. That takes a little bit of understanding because you can over over rotate the car and crash it and I’m done [00:18:00] eventually by following figured it out.

Guys that I knew were quick. And I would ask people who’s, you know, you’d look at the timesheet and you’d, you’d slowly progress up the timesheet, figure out how to get there. If you could.

Crew Chief Eric: So at this point, you’re deeper into the racing world. Did you have any heroes or idols or even anybody you looked up to as a kid that you were still looking up to in the larger kind of circus that is the motor sports world?

Andy Pilgrim: It’s funny. I didn’t relay anything sort of. I don’t know why it was a separate, there’s maybe a separation. Yeah, Mike Halewood was a motorcycle rider. Giacomo Agostini was a motorcycle rider that I would see at the racetrack where my dad taught me when I was young. So obviously they were people well known to me.

I know a ton of names because I was young in the 1960s, not so much from the 70s and 80s and onwards, except, you know, Valentino Rossi and some of the guys now. It wasn’t that I had heroes, but looking now, later, When I was in 90s, out in Senna, of [00:19:00] course. Senna, absolutely staggering talent, uh, but that was probably the driver who his focus, determination, competitiveness, that was probably the more modern person that I, I sort of thought, you know, there’s a lot.

There that you can learn from a person like that.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s step back into the timeline. Here we are in the late 80s. You’re in a Ford. So what happens next?

Andy Pilgrim: Well, the Ford was SCCA 1 year deal with the dealer out of Plano, Texas, which I have now moved from El Paso to Plano, Texas. I’ve moved into the quote unquote management world.

The dealer there wanted to run this Mustang and I was. Lucky enough that he said, Hey, you can run this Mustang. I was kind of growing around, seeing if anyone wanted a young race car driver to race anything, just like you do at that time. After that, like I said, I still had the Renault Cup car, but the Renault Cup series ended.

I sold the Renault in 86. A guy called Jeff Beitzel, the late [00:20:00] Jeff Beitzel, actually he passed away a few years ago. Jeff was the guy who said, you know, you’ve got 3, 000, I will buy you two weekends in this team that we’re putting together. It was sort of related to Pontiac because one of the guys on the team worked at GM Pontiac and that didn’t hurt.

Those two races, I bought those two races, co driver was Bill Bailey. We didn’t win, but Firehawk back then was so competitive. You’d have a hundred car fields. You’d have 50 cars in the grand sport class, massively competitive. And we ended up with like top five finishing fairly quickly. Bill wasn’t a bad driver, gentleman driver.

And I was managing to help lift us into that top 10, uh, and he wasn’t doing bad himself, but between us. Uh, we got some reasonable finishes and I enjoyed working with the team. He was a nice guy after those two races. It was, I was done. I said, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much. And all the rest of it.

And I, and Bill said, well, we’ll see you next week. I said, no, that was it. I’ve only got the 3000. Jeff was kind enough to bring me in and he said, okay, all right. Well, Andy, it’s been [00:21:00] great. Thanks very much. And off I went the next week. He called on the phone and said, look, you can’t afford to keep going at the rate what you pay.

I understand that. He said, Can you get yourself to the races? And I said, Yeah, sure. I think I can do that. Yeah. He said, Okay, well, I’d like you to drive mid me for the rest of the season. And that was, that was huge, because otherwise my career, you know, would have been. Well, it would have been over until I saved enough money to try again or something like that.

Yeah, but that’s what literally got me to Firestone High. We finished probably third in the championship. We won two races in 86. We won Sonoma and we won Portland. It got me noticed on a bigger stage because there were a lot of Trans Am drivers, even IndyCar drivers that would race in that series for fun.

And we loved it. I mean, when somebody like the answers showed up or the Andretti showed up, whether it was the world challenge series, the old playboy series, we loved it because our showroom stock based cars, [00:22:00] they weren’t really faster than the quick guys, but it was so cool. You know, Scott Pruitt, other people would be in there and you’re running against guys that, you know, really famous guys.

And it was, it was, it was great fun.

Crew Chief Eric: So is this then the precipice of your journey with GM, or is there something that leads up to you becoming part of that? Because I know our listeners are dying to learn more about your experience with Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing, and we’ll get there. You know, I want to kind of go through the chronology here a little bit.

Andy Pilgrim: The Firestone Firehort series, at the time, there was the Bridgestone Supercar series, there was the Firestone Firehort series. There was the World Challenge slash, you know, series as well in the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. I was running in all three of those series, but I didn’t have a full time ride all the time after 1990, 91.

But people will call me and say, Hey, we need you for these races, or we need you for those races. And I got to do all three and they were running on showroom tires, shaved street tires, whether they were the Bridgestones, whether they were the [00:23:00] Firestones, whether they were the Goodyears, Goodyear actually had a sticky tire that they ran in, in the world challenge series.

And that was more like a race tire, but it was still, they still weren’t slicks. Early nineties. I got into Sebring and the Daytona 24 hours with Morrison Motorsports. With a car with slicks, and that was a big deal to run a Corvette with slicks. Wasn’t the very first time I was on slicks. I had a bit of sponsorship in 1988 or nine, and I did four barbershop races in a, in a formula car.

This guy came and said, you know, Hey, would you race? You know, I got four races in that. So that was my first time on slicks. But then I ran that Corvette from that Corvette and the Lotus 1994 five, I got my first opportunity when somebody who used to run Larry Schumacher who used to run the Firestone Fireholt series.

He said, Hey, would you like to run in a Porsche with me? He was running now in the IMSA series, the one that does the Daytona 12 hours of Sebring. [00:24:00] And my first time in a Porsche was with Larry Schumacher at the 12 hours of Sebring. And I think that was 1995. That was a huge thing. I mean, wow, to get in a Porsche now, it was like the other cars were showroom stock based, but the Porsche was a proper right now based on 911, of course.

But it was still a proper race car and it was, wow, it was like a huge move. I was, I remember it well, you know, that was great. And I was getting paid during this time. You actually earned money, a thousand dollars for the weekend or 1, 500 for the weekend. You could actually make money. Basic business wise, I was still had a full time job.

In 1989, I had to make a decision because I was getting rides in three different series, not consistently, but gosh, it was like 30 races a year, 30 weekends a year. The people I was working for were really good, but it was difficult. So I took my 20, 000 in savings and said, okay, I’m quitting this job for [00:25:00] 90 grand a year.

And I was earning maybe 45, 000 racing. And of course, you quit the job where you’re earning twice as much, right? With possibilities and everything. I said, okay, I’ve got 20 grand in savings. I started a little IT consulting company because that was the business I was in. Because then I could concentrate on trying to grow this racing career if there was a chance.

Luckily for me, I won’t bore you with going through all of that, but I hired four key people in the first three or four years of that company. They ran the company for me, which allowed me to try to race. I had to still sign paychecks and do all the rest of it was still all on me. They gave me the opportunity while keeping the business going and growing to a degree.

If I’d have spent more time in the business, it might’ve been a really bigger business, but the bottom line is they knew what my goal was when I hired them and they were quite happy to do that. So in 95, getting into Porsche’s 95 also was my first pro championship win. I’d been [00:26:00] second or third in other championships, but I never won a pro championship and they Speed vision cup series with Pontiac, still with Jeff Weitzel.

That was my first opportunity running with Joe Vardy. Vardy’s still around, brilliant driver, great teammate. And I managed to win that championship running with Vardy. We got split up during the year, which is why I won the championship and he didn’t. But that 95 was a big year. Getting to run in Porsche and some of the endurance races.

And also running with Vardy in that when I’m winning an actual pro championship and then 96, 7, 8, I won championships every year for those 4 years

Crew Chief Eric: and the winds kept coming. I’m going to put this in perspective for people. You’re a winner of the 12 hours of Sebring, 2 wins in the Petit Le Mans, 3 wins at the 24 hours of Rolex.

One overall and two GT class for Rolex. Yeah. And five podiums at the 24 hours of LeMans. I mean, yeah. Holy smokes. Yeah. So let’s talk very fortunate. Let’s talk about all [00:27:00] these races, especially LeMans. How about some of the more memorable moments throughout all those huge races?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, and again, you get an opportunity to go to Lamar.

Of course, it was a dream 1996. I was sort of on the notice board as far as Porsche at the time, I wasn’t a factory driver, but I was driving with teams that were sort of associated with the Porsche team. And I was given this opportunity to drive with the new hardware guys out of New Zealand. And they had me come in there.

So you’re at Le Mans and you’re in this GT car. The cars run about 188 miles an hour down the straightaway. Porsche has always had really good aero, slippery car. And they were, you know, not high downforce cars. They were GT cars, but they’d run well. You’d have the prototypes that you had to watch out for, of course.

So during those times, learning the Lamont track, which of course, you know, there’s no videos to look at or anything else, really. [00:28:00] You go there and you walk around a bit and it’s like, well, you’re going to go walk the track. We’ll be back next Thursday, because it’s, you know, 8. 2 miles. So you run a car on the public road portion, but there’s nothing like actually being out there with everybody and then trying to figure it out.

Where can you actually break on the straightaway? Where, you know, how quick can you actually go through the Porsche curves? And it was just. Baptism by fire. And then I’m in my first night stint in 96 and it’s pitch black going down the back straight away. You’re overdriving the lights by 80, a hundred miles an hour.

The lights are, you know, that you have lights, but they really don’t. And it was pitch black and there was an orange glow before you come up the hump to turn right into Molson corner. And I came over there as I was coming up the hill, there was a corner work in the middle on the white line with a flat.

Well, my lights were garbage and I was kind of like coming on left side of the road because I could see [00:29:00] this orange glow, but the orange glow was like. It was making the guy and the flag disappear. I couldn’t see it. I finally saw it at the last split second, moved right, went flying over the top, started to hit the brakes, of course, and there was a Porsche GT1 on the left side, completely engulfed in flames.

And it was like, good grief. I almost hit the guy. I mean, I can still see it. The corner workers are nuts. I mean, they’ll get on the track with the flags. It was just one of those things. And I’m like, this is crazy. Later on, like at three o’clock in the morning, I’m going down towards Indianapolis, long straight away with a curve and it’s a fast curve.

And then you just arc into Indy towards Indianapolis corner before the break zone. And I saw some grass in the air. I didn’t see lights ahead of me, but I saw some grass in the air and I thought, well, something must’ve happened. And there was a freaking prototype right online. Sideways really bent. I mean, [00:30:00] really bits all over and the worst corner workers, but around the corner and again, they weren’t in the road.

Thank goodness. But I had hex on job, just getting the car under control, pulling it back to the right and just missing the whole thing. And it’s like your heart is in your mouth. It’s like, what am I nuts? This is crazy. But it’s like, it was amazing. It’s amazing doing that race. I’m so glad I got the opportunities to do it, you know, six times.

Uh, but the first year was something else. It was something else. You know, those early moments stay with you, you know, crazy, crazy.

Crew Chief Eric: So you have a reputation of being probably one of the nicest people in racing, and I’m not trying to over inflate your ego, but it’s true. But during this time period, there was always this concept of rivalries.

I mean, they go back right hunt versus louder center versus promise. So did you have any rivals in racing.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, yes, of course, everybody that’s ahead of [00:31:00] you in a championship or a race is a rival per se, but there were no, there were no specific people that I got to beat that guy or anything like that. No, not really.

Friends became, many became friends. Randy Popes. And I would run against each other many times. Of course, Johnno, you know, and I, gosh, there’s loads of them. You know, the loads of guys I completely respect. And then absolutely get into the European stuff or the international stuff, or the big races you end up with guys that were in Formula One, I mean, you know, Bob Wallach, Terry Boots, and Ish, uh, max Papas, max Angeli.

These guys are Oliver Gavin. They’ve done things in Formula One, and you’re like, This guy’s Formula One driver. You compare your data to a guy who’s been in Formula One. And I mean, I was in awe. I was old when I started. I was 27 when I got into a factory team in factory Corvette. I was 40 years old when I got that opportunity to get into Corvette racing.

I think because I started so late and because it wasn’t easy to get in. I think I still have almost like a [00:32:00] childish view of this in the sense of like, these guys are working on this car. It’s not my car and I’m getting this opportunity. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Mazda Miata, somebody wants you to test around a racetrack or something.

When I get in the car, I respect the fact that guys have spent money on it. It may not be, they may not have all the money and they want me to test or set up the car or help them set up the car. And it’s a genuine privilege. It’s gratitude and it’s excitement. I love getting in different cars that I’ve never raced before.

And I think, you know, the rivalries for me, maybe ended up with friendships. Some of the guys, yeah, some of the guys don’t want to be friends with the people they race against. I respect that too. That’s fine. I don’t try and go out of my way if you don’t want to be friends. It’s fine. Our friend Lee, that’s fine.

I get it. That’s a psychological thing for some of the guys. I’ve just been always so grateful for being there. I’m generally happy most of the time when I’m in the paddock, you know?

Crew Chief Eric: I would be remiss if I didn’t ask a series of Pit Stop questions before we transition on to the [00:33:00] later part of the story.

So of all the cars you’ve raced and driven over the years, is there a favorite? Or is there a least favorite? I know it’s like picking amongst children, right? Is there really a favorite? And in that same vein, are there favorite and least favorite tracks?

Andy Pilgrim: Definitely tracks. Definitely tracks. I got an opportunity in 2017 to drive with Charlie Partman and Charles Espenlav and Joe Foster.

in some races, international races, and they ended up taking me to Bathurst and the Nürburgring. That was such a privilege to do that and go to those tracks. And also some of the other tracks in Europe, I’d been to some of the other tracks in Europe. Monza in Italy was another one that I got a chance to go to in 1999.

Those tracks and those opportunities were wonderful. But in the US, Elkhart Lake, all day long Elkhart Lake. I think every pro driver has it in their top three. If it’s not the number one for me, it’s number one for sure. But there are some great tracks in the US. Road [00:34:00] Atlanta. I love Sears Point. Laguna Seca.

Polder’s actually a great track to drive. Mid Ohio’s fun. I wish there were more overtaking points in it, but it’s still a very technical, challenging racetrack. There’s so many great tracks in the U. S., for sure.

Crew Chief Eric: So no, no favorite car? Cars. Yeah, cars.

Andy Pilgrim: No, there’s no favorite, but so many good ones. I mean, the Corvette C5R, the Corvette C6R, I drove a little bit with Ron Fellows in a C6R, which was a lot of fun.

The BMWs, the PTG cars with Bill Oberlin and Boris Sedd, having a chance to drive that car with those GT2 and the GT3 cars, versions of those was a lot of fun. Gosh, there’s so many, so many great cars. Even the old Pontiac Firestone Firehawk car was, was actually fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Outside of all the race cars, is there a sexiest car of all time?

Something that really gets you excited?

Andy Pilgrim: Mmm, I’m not going to say what I normally say, which would be a Kia Soul. Because I kind of like boxy cars and I’m a big fan of the Pontiac [00:35:00] Aztec. So the fact that most people have just turned off the broadcast. I do like funny, weird looking cars, but in all seriousness, probably the Aston Martins, the style of the Aston Martins and the style of the Ferraris is probably, they’re just beautifully designed cars, beautifully designed cars.

And I’m like, I’d love to look at those cars. I have some weird taste in street cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Not to stereotype, but I would have put money down if you, to guess, to say that you would have said the E Type Jag, but you know, whatever.

Andy Pilgrim: E Type, yeah, well, that’s well, iconic design to say the least, but I was put off somewhat that car.

I never had an opportunity to drive one, but I was told by a friend of mine who used to race historic racing. He said, they’ll basically wander all over the place at a hundred miles an hour plus because of the terrible aerodynamics from the design of the front that causes the lift. Yeah. And so it was a car that I was not at that point because everything when you’re younger, you get in it, you want to go flat out, but he, [00:36:00] uh, he basically said, do you ever get a chance to drive an e type, whether it’s a historic race or just on the streets, it’d be careful.

He said, you might be testing the top end of the car, but they’re not the most stable cars, but yeah, beautiful cars to look at.

Crew Chief Eric: Another question I’m sure people want to know, what does Andy Pilgrim daily drive?

Andy Pilgrim: Well, at the moment I’m driving a new Toyota Supra. Actually, the uh, carbon fiber edition. Yeah, I managed to get one.

I go through cars fairly quickly these days. I liked the Supra when I tested it for Automobile Motor Trend 2020 and I thought this is a great little car. When the CF came out, They were asking crazy money for it and I managed to find one in South Carolina for just a shade under M Ss r P. And I thought, oh, I’m gonna go with that one.

So that’s what I’m actually driving at the moment. And I have a Honda Ground. Yeah, Honda Grand Motorcycle, which is just so much fun on the Kentucky Back Road series. So, well, a horsepower is all I should try to handle these days. ,

Crew Chief Eric: any desire around the Nissan Z? The new one?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I’ve saw a video and I, I saw, saw a drag race [00:37:00] video of the card, you know, like a.

quarter mile run. Seems like it’s certainly got some 400 horsepower, nice car, and apparently rivaling the Supra. So I’ll look forward to testing, hopefully test one at the Motorsports racetrack here in Bowling Green at some point.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, one final pit stop question. Andy, is there something still on the bucket list, a race that you haven’t been able to get to yet, or a track that you still want to drive, or even a car, a race car that you want to get behind the wheel of?

Andy Pilgrim: Having been to so many great tracks, Suzuka, Fuji, I have never raced anything in Japan, so there’s Bucket List there, and also Spa, but the team I’m with right now, I’m helping young Anthony Bartone this year, and Anthony had a wish to go to Spa to do the Fun Cup, so I would say that that in July is going to be another, hopefully another thing off the Bucket List if it all comes to pass, so I will race at Spa because that was the other track, the only other track really that I haven’t.

Race that, that I really wanted to race, you know, Monza, like I said, Bathurst, [00:38:00] you know, having gone to Bathurst, having gone to the Nürburgring race there, just being at those places that they were definite bucket list and Spa was a little bit lower down, but they’re going to get a chance. It looks like so.

Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, so let’s get back to it. So as part of your time with GM, you’ve been involved for many years with the National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park and known to many of us as just NCM. GTM has been there several times and I actually learned the track in a funny way. I showed up and Pat Sullivan grabs me by the shoulder and he goes, you’re getting in that car and your instructors waiting for you.

For you and I jump in, not paying any attention to look over and it was you. So you were in Pat’s borrowed ZR1 and about 20 minutes later, I’m like, okay, I got this and you had no fear in just showing me the race line and saying, here it is, have a nice day, you know, go about your business. We had a lot of fun over those weekends, but one of the things I get asked a lot by people that haven’t been to NCM, and it’s [00:39:00] one of the things that you told me is NCM is not a racetrack.

It’s a test track. So do you care to explain the difference and why that’s important to people that might be wanting to go there for the first time?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I mean, it is a race track, but when I say the testing track, meaning that it’s a track to learn, it’s one of the best learning tracks I’ve ever seen.

Because it’s got every type of corner and the way that they have it usually is NCM Motorsports Park. So we kind of call it the MSP, the Motorsports Park. Because NCM is actually the National Corvette Museum. With that being said, the track at the MSP, 3. 2 mile 23 turn track, is magnificent learning track.

It’s great. They don’t have official racing there, but they do have some NASA races there, some SCCA type races there. It’s a brilliant track to learn. I mean, if you are within 500 miles of this place, it is great. And I consult here. I’ve been sort of consulting here for about four years now, very much enjoying.

So I decided to move from South Florida completely. [00:40:00] I sold my IT business in 2018. And so I’m very much enjoying my time here in Bowling Green. And so, yeah, it’s a great place. And we’ve taken like, well, the guy I’m with Anthony right now, he’s. He came 11 months ago, he’d never been on a racetrack, never been on ATV, never done go karts, never done anything.

And we just did our first SRO GT4 race last weekend. And he did very well in the sense that he kept a nose clean. He was right in the middle of the AMS and did a super job, but he learned all of the basic skills at the NCM Motorsports Park. Yeah, it’s a great, great learning journey.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, one of the things I distinctly remember about NCM that you had told me, and I will never forget, and I try to pass this on to everybody that goes there, at least for the first time, or that I’ve instructed now many times after these many years that I’ve been going there, is that you actually have to learn the track in three pieces.

And I remember you were like, and this turn is like this track, and this is like the Glen, and this is like here. And for me, I was [00:41:00] able to put that puzzle together, but you had specifically said. You need to learn this in three pieces and then stitch it together. Otherwise it doesn’t really work because the rhythm is different than a track that has natural terrain, like summit point or Watkins Glen, where it was built in to the earth versus something that was specifically designed to test the Corvettes and the Corvette race cars.

Andy Pilgrim: Yes. It’s a very challenging technical track and it’s a very long layout. And they, they managed to get 3. 2 miles out of it. And, you know, certainly the Corvette race team came at the very beginning to test there and, you know, they wanted to incorporate corners where race teams, like the Nissan team came there before they went to Lamar because they have a.

Turn one, AB, is just the same shape as the first chicane at Le Mans. And so, and the, the cars were reaching within two miles an hour on the long straightaway there, the long layout straightaway, not the regular straightaway. They got within two miles an hour of the top speed at Le Mans there. So you can test aerodynamics and things like that.

[00:42:00] So. It has been used for testing by teams that end up going to Le Mans. But yes, it’s like Elkhart Lake. Elkhart Lake is a long track and I learned that just generally because I split it. Turn one through to five, then five through to Canada Corner and then Canada Corner back. It was just the way that I learned it when I first went there in the 1980s, late 80s.

It just seems to help because you learn little bits and just put them together and it becomes more natural.

Crew Chief Eric: So having driven many different types of Corvettes at NCM MSP, what do you think about the classic front engine rear drive Corvettes versus the new mid engine C8?

Andy Pilgrim: This is a great, great question, really, because we have C7s there that kind of tow the C8s around.

The obvious thing is the Tremec transmission in the new C8. So the launch, you know, you’ve got a sub three seconds, zero to 60, which is no way can you match that with a automatic or stick shift. C7 when you’ve got such a little weight on the back wheel, you’re going to get the [00:43:00] wheel spin, uh, which is fairly typical.

The cars are fairly similar on straight away performance because the power of the C7 is a little bit less like 20 or 30 horsepower less, but the, uh, C8 weighs about a couple of hundred pounds more than the C7. But the actual driving, of course, the greenhouse in the C8 is kind of like, you know, a lot of mid engine cars.

You can see so well out the front, you get a great view of the track. And I think that’s what most people that come and try the car doing touring laps and things there. They come in their C7s or C5s or 6s and then they get in the C8. It’s like I felt like I was sitting in the road. There’s nothing in front of me and it takes them a while to get used to it and then they really, really like it.

And it’s an exotic, it’s more of an exotic shape of course. There’s a lot to be said for that design in the sense of how far you can take it. So the guys that are now modifying the C8s on the tracks, and they’re going really quick, putting sticky tires on, doing a little bit of [00:44:00] suspension work, changing the brakes, and they don’t have to do too much, but the chassis, what I’m hearing from those guys is that the chassis stays with you, and that chassis, it’ll handle more power, which we know is probably going to happen down the road, and it’ll handle the braking, it handles the stickier tires, very, very well.

And so I think you’ve got a car that’s, uh, the potential of that chassis is very, very, very good. And it drives so nicely, but they do drive different. They do drive different as you drive a front engine and mid engine race car slightly different. You have to watch your hands, speed.

Crew Chief Eric: So do you think that the C8 will benefit from a hybrid system like an NSX?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I think any of the hybrids, and I’ve driven a lot of hybrids because I’ve been working with CNET cars and also with automobile for a long time. So I’ve done quite a bit of work with electric Porsche. Taycan came over there. I’ve had some opportunities to deal with a Draco 1200 horsepower for electric [00:45:00] motor.

Vehicle. I do some test driving for them. And so I’m quite familiar with the way some of the electric stuff works. Now it’s very heavy. I’ve also taken the NSX around the motor sports park as well. The weight comes with the hybrid setup, but then you’ve got that all wheel drive and there’s once they have the brain, the CPU sorted out that makes the seamless transition with the motor.

And a hybrid power. Once that gets sorted out, you can use those motors to help turn the car help really balance out the difficulties when you have a high powered two wheel drive car. And that’s what I’ve noticed. with working on traction control systems and stability control systems with the electric vehicles.

The ability to tune the computer to really help drive out of corners, help to allow more [00:46:00] aggressive. Turn ins to the corner and how it can actually help stabilize the car in various aspects. I think over the next five years, once they become more popular and common in basic higher end performance sports cars, I think it’s going to be unbelievable how quick the cars are going to be able to go around racetracks.

You’ve always going to have the extra weight, but I think the potential is going to outreach what we have now, whether that’s good or bad. I’m a technology person. I don’t mind all electric vehicles. I’m totally happy using a PDK over a manual transmission. I’m not one of these journalists that like, Oh, you got to have a stick shift or that, you know, it’s like, okay, fine.

I don’t care. It’s not just because it’s faster, but I’m fine if I don’t have them. The cars are so good, there’s so much grip in some of the street cars now, actually trying to manipulate the gear lever like going down turn four to five at Road Atlanta in a car that’s got a ton of [00:47:00] stick and downforce like a, you know, imagine an RS, a GT3 RS or the ZL1 Corvette, and you’re trying to manage, you’re not, you’re in a street seat.

You don’t have a six point harness on, you’re rattling around like a bowling ball in a jar. It’s very difficult to make quick, precise shifts. Why not have a transmission that actually makes it very much easier to manage the car or even let the car do it themselves? I like technology, I like history, I like stick shift vehicles, but I don’t get stuck.

Whatever I’ve got is good.

Crew Chief Eric: Then I guess your feelings on the alleged E Ray are quite positive then, which of the all electric Corvette.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, yeah, supposing there is such an animal. I think having driven the Draco, which is all electric with four motors, and the way that I’ve worked with an engineer to help their drive controls.

I think people are just going to be stunned if you haven’t driven a Tesla Plaid. And the zero to 60 and two flat or two one or whatever it is in [00:48:00] actuality, it’s actually uncomfortable for most people, you can get whiplash, you can cause a passenger, you don’t like the passenger, you can, you know, you can basically upset them and very easily.

I think the the performance is going to outstrip people’s ability very quickly with these electric vehicles. So much performance that race cars can’t even match in a straight line drag cause. I mean, these cars are being sold on the street and you’d have to have a full harness system parachutes. If you were going to the local drag strip for a car that does 150 miles an hour in a quarter mile and a low nine.

I don’t have a problem with it being there, but you wonder sometimes whether these cars should come with a, a bit of training rather than just sales training to know how to use the wifi. You may need to actually have someone trained in some of this stuff, because you can get to 100 miles an hour in five seconds, then you are in something extraordinarily fast.

And I don’t think the average driver [00:49:00] is going to be expecting this. Or they’ll just never use it. Any electric vehicle, any electric sports car, once they get a handle on how to use the motors and how to do the TC, any sports car, that’s all electric is going to be devastatingly fast.

Crew Chief Eric: You touched on a couple of important things here, and it’s a great segue into maybe passing on some knowledge to aspiring drivers.

And one of the things you mentioned early on is that you drove by feel and by instinct. And obviously data came later because you grew up through the digital era, through the data era of race car driving. So now do you find yourself still driving by feel? Do you use data? Is it a combination? I know people get really religious about this particular question.

You know, it’s all data or nothing. And some people are like, yeah, whatever. What are your thoughts on that?

Andy Pilgrim: I’ve been on race teams where the data was king. And the engineers would not necessarily listen to a driver in the sense that I see what I see on the [00:50:00] data, and even though you’re telling them something that might contradict that, there’s a tendency to just like, yeah, okay, but the data is telling me this.

I definitely think that as far as the data is concerned now, I utilize everything I can because one, I’m old. I mean, shoot, I’m in my mid sixties now. I’m basically running in a series, you know, GT four is a series where you’ve got some absolutely stunningly quick young guys helping Anthony. We go over data religiously and then Danton is learning from me.

So I have to be able to translate that data and sometimes I will learn like Johnny O’Connor, Johnny O’Connor, O’Connor and I drove together for five years, Johnny and I drive differently. He likes a car that is off the front. I like a car that. Is loose on the way in. If I have a car, that’s an understeering car, I don’t particularly like it.

And I don’t trust it, especially on a street course. If you’re having to drive it into a corner with an understeer to get it to go quick, [00:51:00] I don’t like that. I will prefer to let me feel the rear and I’ll steer it through the corner, you know, on the rear of the car. That’s something that you need an engineer to listen to you and give you what you want, whatever the data is.

Something like that. So data is absolutely useful for sure. When you’re trying to train someone. And I learned from Johnny, I learned from Alan McNish on data that was in the late nineties, 99, 98. And my God, how can I not learn in a prototype slash GT one Porsche from Alan McNish? I learned a tremendous amount.

One that. Alan was able to drive the GT1 Evo like he was driving a rental Cadillac, you know, going into turn 10 at Sears Point, he would lose the car twice before the apex. He would like throw it in. Oh, it wasn’t quite right. I throw it in again, all while just going to the apex now. And I thought to myself, well, I’m not going to try that this session, but I worked my way up to trusting [00:52:00] to me.

That was like, it was more than anything I’d ever driven. I hadn’t ever driven any, but you know, a GT three car at that time. And this Evo thing with 800 horsepower. Because we were running against full prototypes, so they uncorked the engine, you know, no ABS, no traction control. Learning from Alan in that car taught me that at that time, that was the most sophisticated data.

And since then, I have a tremendous, now I’m a computer programmer, right? So that’s data, I respect data anyway. But learning, I learned to learn from the data. Ron Fellows or Oliver Gavin or Max Angioletti, you know, Alan would have different ways into a corner. And I might be quicker. You’d look at the pluses and the minus on the way in, but we drove differently from what my own experience, not many pro drivers like to have a car that’s more loose.

Most of them want to drive off the front tires. I don’t know whether that why necessarily, but that’s just been my experience. You can learn from that. And sometimes you blend what’s your natural style, some corners you might. No, if you drive [00:53:00] off the front, you’re going to be quicker. And then you still in the other corners where you can just lose the back end, like faster corners.

If you can just control the back, you can maintain more speed through and you don’t have to adjust the steering because if you’re going too quick to a fast corner, you’re running off the front, you just have to wait a little bit because if you get a sustained understeer, you can’t get back. But if you can rotate it.

Another two or three degrees on the way in, you can fly out, get NOLA last weekend. I was pretty quick through the faster back section corners. And I love those types of corners, you know? Yeah. So it

Crew Chief Eric: brings you back to your days of your GTI. That’s all.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Right.

Andy Pilgrim: You know, three wheels, of course, always be open, never be closed minded.

Always think you can learn something from a teammate, you can learn something from following some folks, try their line, never be closed minded about anything. I think I’ve always been open minded and tried to change and learn as I go. And I’m still learning. I’m still learning.

Crew Chief Eric: So one of the other questions that comes up is how do [00:54:00] you prep for race?

Is it just, you know, spending time at the track? You’ve been to so many tracks. It’s just experience. Is there any sort of, let’s say regimen you go through workouts, do you use simulators or anything like that? I mean, that’s like the hotness right now, right? Is everybody’s on iRacing now?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. My teammate Anthony is on sim.

He’s never been to most of these tracks. He’s never seen any of them. So he’s doing sim work and he gets there and it’s got him to a point when he gets there that he’s already. Got an idea where he is going. It’s not like when I first went to tracks. Nothing else. I don’t use a simulator. I do work out. I continue to do that because you have to, some of the races I do with the Ferrari, it’s a, Jen wants G T three car.

Some of those races are not, are 75 minutes. Just long enough stint that, and it doesn’t have a, it just has sort of a fan in the car. It gets very hot in there. So yes, I have to continue to work out and be prepared in that sense. Don’t do simulator work. I did before I went to the Nürburgring, I basically bought a PlayStation essentially, and learned as much as I could from [00:55:00] the Nürburgring, because out of respect for that place, I had to.

And also I learned before I went to Bathurst as well, for the same reason, just to get more of an idea. And it did help. Unless you have a 5 million simulator, the topography is not there. So that’s the biggest difference. But I think simulators are useful. Data is useful. Working out, absolutely, you should stay as fit as you possibly can.

And I still try to do that. Absolutely. I want to be as good as I can be for the whole time I’m in the car.

Crew Chief Eric: Before we move on to the last part of this episode, I want to ask you one more question. You know, we talked about how you… Looked up to drivers when you were younger, and now you find yourself in that position yourself.

There’s plenty of people out there listening to this now that are looking up to Andy Pilgrim going, he’s one of my heroes, what advice, what golden nugget would you pass on to these folks? Maybe some sort of inspiration to say, you can do it too.

Andy Pilgrim: In the sense of the money aspects, I do get a lot of people either emailing me, messaging through social media, or just talking [00:56:00] to me at the racetrack.

And they tell them just a little bit like, look, I didn’t have money. I’d started at 27. That’s the one that gets them because it’s like you got into factory cars when you’re in your forties. And it’s like, yeah, I had a factory GM contract up to 2018 when I was 61 years old. The point being that you have to have a plan.

You have to have focus. There are things in life that come up, don’t add to the trauma that will come in life anyway, do your best to stay focused, have a plan, if it’s racing related, if you don’t have a lot of money, try and pick a series, try and save some money to at least get yourself into a series where you might get good experience, any spec series, I tell people any spec series, that is going to be a good way to learn, You can’t necessarily afford to get into a pro series like the Mazda pro series now is pretty expensive.

You may get a year or two of club racing under your belt with a something like a Miata, get some results. [00:57:00] And if you feel that you are doing reasonably well, you don’t have to set the world on fire. Try and buy some races. Out of track, you know, with some teams, there’s some great teams out there. I know Shea Holbrook runs a team.

I think she’s got five or six cars and people rent cars from her. You can rent the cars in certain series or a reasonable amount of money. Give it a shot. Try at that pro level. And it lets you know if this is the way to go. And of course, if you can try and get sponsorship, there’s guys that are really good about raising money.

I never did that. And I got lucky, if you want to call it that, or, and when I got an opportunity, I didn’t make a mistake. And I ended up at this age now with this long career. Don’t let anyone say you can’t do it. Stay focused. And when you do get an opportunity in maybe a car that somebody says, yes, you’re a test.

Don’t overdrive the car. You don’t have to set the world on fire. If [00:58:00] I can tell you one thing, I know there were 10 guys in the 80s that were super quick and into the 90s and they would get. Opportunities maybe to drive a GT car or another level up from a known factory operational factory linked operation, and they would overdrive the car and they would crash the car.

And this happened over many years. I know at least 10 guys that have these opportunities. They messed them up. Don’t overdrive. If you get an opportunity, be smart, do the best you can, but don’t overdrive it. And, you know, you’ll probably get there. Enjoy it. Enjoy every time you get on a racetrack. It doesn’t matter where the, what kind of racing you do, if you love it, you’ll do it anyway.

And you’ll spend the money you can on it and you’ll do club racing forever. And that’s great. Or what’s across whatever, and that’s fine. I wanted to try and do it. I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to see if I was any good. And I tried to get into a pro series lowest possible cheapest level. I could, I would advise to do the [00:59:00] same thing and work on your fitness.

work on understanding setup. I still have a beaten up moth eaten book called how to make your car handle by Fred Poon. If somebody gave me an old secondhand copy of that, and I digested that because I made myself understand car setup, whether it’s aero, whether it’s mechanical, on the cars. And learn to drive it.

And if you work on it yourself, you know, you can make a great difference to a car in lap times by understanding setups, just really work at your craft, really work at your craft, just keep a good attitude and learn from anyone that you see out there who might be better than you. And there’s plenty of friendly guys.

Anyone is welcome to come and talk to me. You know, I’m pretty much an open book. I always have been. And so if I know anything or see anything, just come by. And there’s plenty of great guys out there that would do the same thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Sage advice from one of the last great grassroots drivers. I’m going to leave it there as we move on to our final segment here.

A lot of [01:00:00] folks also don’t know that you give back to the community at large through something known as the Traffic Safety Education Foundation. We want to give you an opportunity to explain what that is to our listeners and what it’s all about and where it’s going.

Andy Pilgrim: It’s simply put in the, in the… Late eighties started the business and the bit 89 and the business took off like a single engine Cessna with a misfire dragon and alpha.

And for the first two years, it was hand to mouth, very difficult. I was literally living off the racing and not taking anything out of the business, trying to grow the business. After a couple of years, it finally cleared the trees at the end of the runway. And it wasn’t making loads of money, but at least it was paying for itself after two years, probably five years in six years.

And it was actually, we had some contracts. We had some people on billing and it was making a little profit, but it was at least stable, never a big business. Sometimes we’d have about 50, 75 people on billing. You know, you’d make a little bit of money at the end of the year. So at that point, like 1995, I lived in Fort Lauderdale area.

I actually [01:01:00] saw four kids in the car driving very, very quickly, no signal, flew off a freeway, went down to a traffic light and just kind of blew a red light on a right turn, didn’t even come to a full stop. And I just happened to be watching this thing and I thought, man, maybe traffic safety is something.

I was looking for a give back project. My mother and my godmother were very charity minded. You know, as a young kid, my mom would, we lived in a smaller town, my mom would… Go and do laundry for older people. We knew that we’re in the house. I get dragged along 8, 9, 10, 11 years old one day a weekend. I could play soccer with my friends and then the other day I didn’t like it at the time, but it stuck.

My godmother was the same way. Very charity minded business was going. Okay enough and racing was going well. It’s time to give back. So I went to the local high school and lo and behold, unbelievably. The lady at the front said, well, we, anyone to do with traffic safety, this gentleman in the auto shop down Sorrentino and I walked in the auto shop and he said, hi.

And he said, oh my God, you’re Andy Pilgrim. Unbelievable. Mid [01:02:00] 90s. The guy was a Sebring Daytona Endurance. Says, what are you doing in my shop? He gave me the opportunity to talk to his students and other teachers at the school, big school, 3, 500 students. It was literally half a mile from my house. And that’s where it started.

Traffic safety, understanding. I talked about distracted driving. I have notes from the mid nineties, actually with the term distracted driving on it. Started with talking to the high schools. Then I started talking to driver education teachers. By sort of 2010, 11, I was talking at conferences, I made a video actually with Dale Jr.

I asked Dale Jr. to help me and we made this little video was actually aimed at parents. And it was kind of early for that distracted driving early for that to 2005. And it didn’t particularly take off very well. But lo and behold at a conference, two or three of the teachers there said we use your video in our classrooms.

Thank you. And I was like, you do said, Oh yeah, it’s [01:03:00] great. That three, two, one go and focusing and grabbing the keys and all that stuff and getting your mind on driving. Oh yeah, we use it. It’s great. It’s great. I was like, Oh, cool. About 2011, 12, I made a proper video for driver education teachers. Cause I said, look, you’ve got curriculums this thick, you get six or eight hours to teach in the classroom.

So what do you do? Well, we basically, it takes about an hour to be quite honest, to teach them how to pass the test. And then we try to add things that are going to help them survive out there. I said, so if I make a video with survival stuff in it, you can add it to your classroom. You can do it. Yes.

That’s where the driving zone 2 came from. Cause the first one in 2005 was driving zone. Driving zone 2 came from that 35, 000 of those videos were requested DVDs. Requested by driver education teachers and just believe it or not, driver education teachers, 80 percent of them still want a DVD because when you’re in the classroom, the firewalls at the schools, you can’t [01:04:00] stream, even though everything on my website is streamable, they want DVD because they can’t stream it live.

It’s very difficult, the connections and everything else. So that sort of started, I’ve made five full length videos to do with traffic safety and five PSAs. They’re all on this website, I can tell you it’s www. tsef. org. Everything’s free, even shipping and handling the DVDs. It’s a, just a give back project and it’s just, I get so much wonderful feedback.

It’s great. I’ve got stuff for parents. I’ve even got stuff for parents of newborns because people with younger children, they don’t realize once you turn that child’s safety seat around a face front, that’s when your child starts picking up your driving habits and behaviors. And if you just start thinking about this when they’re 14 or 15 before they get a permit, you’re about 12 years, 13 years too late.

Everything they’ve seen you do is now cement in their head. And they are going to do the same thing. And it’s not enough to say, now, don’t drive distracted. Now don’t take some drivers. Like I’ve been watching you do it for the last 13 years. Uh, so hands free [01:05:00] phone use. Absolute. No, no. Manufacturers will tell you hands free is better safer.

No, it’s not. Absolutely not. The mind concentrating on a phone call hands free or not. It’s a major, major distraction. And so talk at conferences, I’ve spoken at Quantico, spoken at Air Force bases, Army bases, groups of younger people that want the message. And it’s, you know, machinist union, annual safety conference, 750 union safety officer from all airlines were there and of course, schools.

And to parent groups, things like that. It’s great fun.

Crew Chief Eric: And most recently, I believe you were featured on a Motor Week special as well.

Andy Pilgrim: Yes, that’s true actually. Motor Week TV came to the M S P and, uh, shot it there. And, uh, very grateful to them. And it just, it aired actually a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, we got some great feedback from that.

Lots of video requests from people and everything Streamable on the. For regular folks and students, they go onto the website and they stream things, but driver ed teachers still request DVDs. So it’s [01:06:00] like, okay, no problem. We’ll make another 10, 000 then.

Crew Chief Eric: So now we’re going to play. Where are they now? So where is Andy now?

Let’s talk about your involvement with SRO in GT3 and GT4 racing, what kind of cars you’re driving, your international campaigns, anything else that’s going on right now that people would be able to follow you on the racetrack still today.

Andy Pilgrim: Just outside of the racing environment, I’m working with CNET Cars now.

Automobile sadly went kind of out of print a couple of years ago. I’m still very good friends with Matt Morrison, who’s the editor of Motor Trend. I told the Mac that, you know, I’ve got this opportunity at CNET Cars as it is now, it used to be CNET Roadshow. And we are still testing cars at the motor sports park on track with a hot lap.

And that’s a lot of fun. So I enjoy doing that. As far as the racing goes, I got a call from Anthony’s dad 11 months ago and saying that, you know, Anthony’s interested in learning to drive on track. Lo and behold, that ended up with Anthony and I having a, you know, we’ve got used GT4 [01:07:00] MRs, good cars, not the new ones.

And so he’s been doing some different type of racing, like SCCA slash I international GT, and I’ve been doing those races with him in a separate car. Again, pulling him around the racetrack. And now, you know, now he’s chasing me sometimes at some of the tracks where he, where he knows. And so this whole year we’ll be helping him in GT four.

And now we just did our first SRO race. We hope to do another two of the SRO races before the end of the year in GT four. Uh, we may do GT for America at Nashville to give him a taste of the street course. So that’ll be fun for both of us to do that. Also the ski auto sport guys, which I’ve been running their first generation Ferrari GT3.

For the last couple of years, they are doing some SRO GT America races too. They’re again, limited schedule. They’ll do two or three SRO races. Johnny O’Connell’s also running with them, you know, which is fun. Johnny’s doing some stuff with them. So they’re basically giving old age pensioner race car drivers like us a chance to get out in the racetrack again.

So we’ll [01:08:00] do some SRO races. I think we do VIR in the Ferrari, Galecourt Lake in the Ferrari. That’s about it. I think with SRO this year with the Ferrari and we’ll do Sebring with the GT4 car and we’ll do Nashville and we’ve got quite a few other races. The whole point of this year is to give Anthony a look at a lot of different racetracks in the US as many as we can.

So we’re doing different series to get him to see the tracks. So it’s essentially a really busy year this year.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think I know the answer to this next question, which is racing is still in your future until you can’t anymore, right?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. And again, like I said to Tony, Anthony’s dad, I said, look, I can pull Anthony around.

And I saw he has talent, even the very first time he went on track. You know, he’s not chasing me around at that point, but I could see that he has some natural car skills and he’s very smart and he sees the way around the track. Not always perfect yet, of course, you know, I can help him. But I said to Tony, I said, [01:09:00] look, Tony, I love to race bits and pieces where I can now, and it’s fun, but this is serious.

But when Anthony gets to that point. That he’s running well enough, I will try to point him in the right direction. Then I can, you know, I can just look from the side and cheer him on and that’ll be perfectly fine. I, this is such a great cause I’ve really never been in this position to, to sort of coach someone like this.

And I don’t think many drivers do get in this position where they still give you a car to race as well. And so I feel very grateful to that. And it’s a. Pleasure to see this lad grow into this and work with him. Plus he’s a really, he’s a nice kid to be around as well.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ll be looking out for him and we’ll be rooting for him as well.

And we’ll probably be cross crossing paths at many SRO events to come in the future. So I’m looking forward to it. Yeah.

Andy Pilgrim: I look forward to seeing you, mate. Absolutely.

Crew Chief Eric: So Andy, as we wrap up any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to mention before we close out.

Andy Pilgrim: No, I just want to thank you so much for your time.

Honestly, it’s been an absolute pleasure going down sort of memory lanes.

Crew Chief Eric: Andy Pilgrim, [01:10:00] racer, educator, journalist. Andy is currently based in Bowling Green, Kentucky, along with his traffic safety education foundation. He continues his work in traffic safety, professional racing in series like SRO motorsports and consults to the national Corvette museum and NCM motorsports park.

He also writes vehicle test articles and creates video content for CNET cars. If you want to catch up with him, be sure to check out www. andypilgrim. com for all the details or follow him on social at Andy Pilgrim on Facebook and YouTube or at Andy Pilgrim the number eight. So that’s Andy Pilgrim eight on Instagram and Twitter.

And remember. Kids emulate us, so be sure to check out his Traffic Safety Education Foundation and learn how you can create the next generation of better drivers at www. tsef. org. And I have to say, Andy, I cannot thank you enough for coming on Brake Fix. What an incredible resume, what an incredible story, [01:11:00] and what an incredible all around great guy.

So thank you. Thank you very much.

Andy Pilgrim: Thank you. Thanks, mate. Thank you very much.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, CrowdStrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www. sro motorsports. com Or take a shortcut to GT America dot U S and be sure to follow them on social at GT underscore America on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT world.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for [01:12:00] future shows, you can call or text us at 202 333 4000. 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newtons, Gummy Bears, and Monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. dot Patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of [01:13:00] this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Andy Pilgrim: A Legendary Racing Driver
01:40 Early Life and Passion for Cars
02:43 First Steps into Racing
03:40 From Mopeds to Motorcycles
05:19 Transition to Car Racing
07:55 Racing in the US: The Early Years
09:58 Autocross Adventures
14:47 Entering Professional Racing
19:24 Racing Highlights and Championships
27:02 Memorable Moments at Le Mans
30:57 Rivalries and Friendships in Racing
33:01 Favorite Cars and Tracks
34:27 Memorable Race Cars and Personal Favorites
36:11 Daily Driver and Car Preferences
37:16 Bucket List Tracks and Racing Aspirations
38:14 Involvement with National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park
42:27 Comparing Corvette Generations
44:35 Future of Hybrid and Electric Sports Cars
49:23 Driving by Feel vs. Data
55:32 Advice for Aspiring Drivers
59:59 Traffic Safety Education Foundation
01:06:06 Current Racing and Future Plans
01:09:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

The Traffic Safety Education Foundation

The TSEF mission is to educate, improve driving behaviors and raise awareness of the deadly epidemic of distracted driving. We provide training programs for corporations, parents, educators and civic groups. Featuring on-demand educational videos and seminars, teenagers, parents, educators, professionals and drivers of ALL ages can benefit from learning decision-making skills essential for safe driving.

And remember, kids emulate us, so be sure to check out his Traffic Safety Education Foundation and learn how you can create the next generation of better drivers at www.tsef.org

He also writes vehicle test articles and creates video content for CNET Cars. If you want to catch up with him, be sure to check out www.andypilgrim.com for all the details or follow him on social @Andy Pilgrim on facebook and youtube, or @andypilgrim8 on instagram and twitter.

In 1981, Andy moved to the U.S. for a programming job with GM Pontiac. His first car? A $500 Chevy Malibu Classic that lasted 45,000 miles. But it was in El Paso, Texas, where fate intervened. Spotting a Corvette autocrossing in a mall parking lot, Andy discovered SCCA and joined with his beloved Volkswagen GTI. That moment launched his American racing career.

Andy’s transition from autocross to professional racing was fueled by luck, hustle, and a well-timed encounter with Jim Pettengill of Grassroots Motorsports. Pettengill spotted Andy’s talent and pointed him toward the Renault Cup – a series where Andy could race for prize money. With a bank loan meant for furniture, Andy bought a used Renault Alliance and began racing. He won Rookie of the Year in 1984 and sold the car to fund two Firestone Firehawk races in 1986.

Those two races turned into a full season thanks to Jeff Beitzel, who saw Andy’s potential. Wins at Sonoma and Portland followed, and Andy’s reputation grew. He raced against legends like the Andrettis and Unsers in showroom stock cars, holding his own and earning respect.

Going Pro: Porsche, Pontiacs, and Podiums

In the early days, there were no coaches or telemetry. Andy learned by feel, by following faster drivers, and by asking questions. His approach was simple: let the quick guys pass, then study their lines. It was the school of hard knocks, and Andy graduated with honors.

By the mid-90s, Andy was racing Porsches at Sebring and Le Mans, winning championships in the SpeedVision Cup with Pontiac, and building a consulting business to support his racing dreams. Between 1995 and 1998, he won multiple pro championships and began racking up endurance racing wins. Let’s put it in perspective:

🏆 Winner of the 12 Hours of Sebring
🏁 Two-time winner of Petit Le Mans
🥇 Three wins at the Rolex 24 (one overall, two GT class)
🥈 Five podiums at the 24 Hours of Le Mans

Photo courtesy Richard Prince, richard@rprincephoto.com, +631-427-0460, www.rprincephoto.com. All rights reserved.

Though he didn’t idolize racers growing up, Andy later admired Ayrton Senna for his focus and determination. His own journey was shaped more by opportunity and perseverance than by emulation.

Andy Pilgrim’s story is a masterclass in chasing your passion with relentless drive. From mopeds to Le Mans, he’s lived the dream many only imagine – and he did it with humor, humility, and a whole lot of heart. Stay tuned for Part 2, where we dive into Andy’s time with Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing, and explore the legacy he’s built across decades of motorsport.

The following content has been brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, Crowdstrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School.

Car Masters Season 4 – Respect the Artist!

Reviews

Eric M

August 4, 2022

Car Masters Season 4 – Respect the Artist!

When my wife and I saw the announcement for the return of one of our favorite Rustoration shows in mid-July, we couldn’t wait to buckle down and binge.

Check out our other Car Masters Reviews...

Season 1	Season 2	Season 3	Season 4	Season 5	Season 6
VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE CAR MASTERS BUILDS!

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

This season opens with Mark Towle rummaging through dumpsters at a local junkyard, something I am all too familiar with. Going to the yard is – as Forrest Gump would say – “like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get.” As my wife pointed out, the opening “was cute and fun” but turns to its scripted-formula quickly, picking-up almost immediately after the epic-fail of the online auction for Gotham Garage’s supercar and motorcycle “concept pair” from Season-3.

From this moment on the number of times “250-grand” is said in the first 4 episodes could easily be turned into a drinking game, we get it… you want to get paid for your creation. Selling a one-off concept car in a post-covid, economically downturned, near recession climate has to be tough. As outsiders looking in, we understand why someone would want to invest their money in more common or better known classic and collector cars. It makes good financial sense.

But hang on… because in typical Car Masters style Shawn will wheel’n’deal until we get there, because after all… there’s an ass for every seat. And let’s face it, what would a Car Masters season be without some: Upgrade & Trade until the 6-figure pay day, right?

Gotham Garage is known for it’s gothic-inspired over-the-top near cartoonish builds and this season is no exception. The team comes out of the gate trying to make up for lost time with a 1928 Essex Rat-Rod build (as seen in the clip below), hoping to turn a $30k profit on what’s being touted as a $0 build.

I must drive flat-out!

Out of seemingly nowhere, Mark and Shawn get a call from a local avid Porschephile, who wants to take his VW Beetle based “Elite Laser” 917 Kit Car and make it track ready. OK! – you have my attention. Mark and Shawn visit the customers garage to inspect the car, and find that it’s a barely together rolling chassis, with an early 911 2.2-litre flat-6 waiting to be installed. The owner claims $40k upfront for the build and a bonus $10k if the car is capable of a sub-2-minute lap time at the “Streets of Willow” configuration at Willow Springs Raceway about an hour north of Los Angeles (below).

It goes without saying that the Gotham Team are out of their element with most European cars. Do you remember the Smart Car off-roader? (Season-1). Granted, this Classic Beetle-based vehicle isn’t the most sophisticated, but they immediately run into issues with the Porsche engine and its ignition system. Having worked on early 911 engines with my father, I can sympathize.

In the end, they were able to get the car “track ready” with some subtle Gotham touches. No spider webs from what we could tell, but mostly a replica of Steve McQueen’s Gulf-liveried 917 from the movie LeMans. I will admit that outside of the engine being oriented the wrong way for a 917, and the goofy exhaust, the car looked much better than when they started the build. Performance is what stands between the team and the extra $10k.

Despite the awkward seating position and terrible hurst-like shifter (above) that the driver had to contend with, the Elise Laser 917 was able to complete a hot-lap of Streets of Willow in a 1:52.29, shattering the driver’s previous benchmark time of 2:03. #imustdriveflatout

Did he say Rocket Car?

The ho-hum; woah-is-me vibe continues through Episode-3 where we add a couple more projects to the mix. We can’t even explain the T-bucket+Ranchero mash-up (above) during the first part of the episode, so we’re not going to… but, crampt is the first adjective we’d like to use, but you’ll just have to check it out for yourself.

“Now that’s a cool car!” exclaimed my wife as the team takes on a ’57 Chevy 2-door Wagon build on the second half of the episode leading into Episode-4. This was a well done and “subtle” #restomod with a brilliant red & alpine white paint scheme, beautiful interior, and build quality that we came to expect from earlier seasons of the show.

The car, in our opinion, was almost too good for the deal that Shawn presented “in-trade” whereby the new owner of the wagon would allow the team to select from any number of “classics” in their salvage yard. At first glance it seemed like there wasn’t going to be any fruit to pick from his yard, as Mark says “there’s nothing here but late models” – but we all know the good stuff is always kept in the back.

After some expected bartering the proposed trade is for a ’69 Camaro Coupe, ’62 Cadillac Coupe and a 1996 Lakester Bonneville Salt-Flats racer in return for the ’57 Chevy. The Camaro is quickly taken off the table with a story about #roundtoits. The Caddy gets chopped into a more desirable convertible, and flipped, while the Lakester gets turned into a “Rocket Car.”

And if by rocket car you mean, attaching a couple of MAP-gas propane tanks with mini flamethrowers pushing out of some dryer vent… then YES!, we have achieved rocket car status. This build was disappointing for the team, as well as for the viewers. It was such a womp-womp moment followed by a $15k loss on the sale. Personally, this car should have just been sold as-is, to a collector or museum since it had racing pedigree and a legitimate Oldsmobile Aurora IndyCar powerplant.

What where they thinking?

Episode-4 somehow turned into PIMP MY RIDE, taking a pristine near-museum quality US Military Ambulance and turning it into a gaudy gold wrapped disco party bus. A tidy $17k profit was made from the build, along with an additional $13.5k profit from a MK5-based 5-cylinder VW Beetle Cabriolet morphed into a modern “Baja Bug” for an up and coming female off-road racer.

Unlike the Smart Car debacle, Mark and Caveman were able dismantle the Bug and not cut any wires keeping it 100% functional. Next, the team turned a brand new Polaris Slingshot into a ’69 Camaro big wheel for Caveman’s best-friend.

Redemption

FINALLY… the wait is over. We can all breathe a sigh of relief. No more lamenting about these concept vehicles and the debt surrounding them. Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder, and Nick Smith (below) who you might recognize from ClassicAvenue.com and appearances on other Motortrend shows as an “Automotive Appraiser” represents an undisclosed client that was willing to pay $285k negotiating down from $315k with that suspense driven minimum of “over $250k or nothing” which we’d been hearing about for nearly half the season.

We’re glad the shop got their 6-figure pay day on these cars, and that they could move on to other projects, and in doing so the audience could also move on. Godspeed.

Jumping the Shark

Then comes the Oppenheimer commissioned “build me a muscle-car for $100k” project, which included one of the most forced/awkward negotiations on the show to date. Mark chooses a C3 Corvette as the base for this build. My feelings on the C3 Corvette continue to ebb and flow – some days I love it, others not so much. The overall plans inspiration comes from the Mako-II Corvette concept car, and that’s great idea, we like this idea a lot! The Mako-II was sleek and sexy, and we were hoping that the team was going to follow the precedent they laid out during the Lincoln Futura build from Season 1 and create a near replica of that one-off concept car.

What we ended up with was more “hotwheels” – and Mark admits at one point he’s known for “cartoonish cars” – OK! … We need to constantly reminds ourselves of that this season. But here’s my personal take on this build, granted I’m not a designer or even an artist, but… why not start with a motorsports-inspired Bondurant-style wide-body Trans-Am GTO kit then graft that Shelby Daytona (Mako-Shark) rear end to it? Talk about a unique, menacing and aggressive car.

The carbon fiber front-end (above) was interesting to see come together, the technical prowess of the team is always top notch, but it just didn’t seem to fit the rest of the lines. The rear fenders are cut short because of the double side exit exhausts. Mark has a real talent in the paint booth. The paint scheme is undeniably fresh, you don’t see too many gradient paint jobs anymore. It goes from a dark blue on-top and changes to silver at the bottom, just like the body of a shark. Gorgeous.

We did take issue with the design, and as Jason Oppenheimer put it “it’s not subtle.” As long as he’s happy, everyone is happy, right? Once the car was revealed, my mind wandered back to the C3 from the movie ‘Corvette Summer’ (above) that we reviewed with EILFM. I’m not sure which I would choose in a contest, especially with a $100k price tag. In the end, the sale of this vehicle left the team with a solid $55k profit.

Upgrade & Trade, then Sell!

Finally, around Episode-6 we got back into the rhythm of Season-1, and the recipe goes as follows… take a base Chevy Silverado K5 Blazer in late ’70s brown, and turn it into a rolling version of Darth Vader’s helmet. Super black with hand painted red ghost flames, add a dually rear-end and matching flares and you have “one badass truck.” The Blazer was traded for a 1957 Kenworth Big-Rig that becomes a personal passion project for Mark in-honor of his relationship with his father. The Kenworth is slated to be sold for a “6-figure pay day” hoping to fetch a tidy $100k.

Progress on the ’57 Kenworth was halted due to a timeline shift for the Lincoln-Zephyr Service Van build that started around Episode-5. Speedway Motors (the named sponsor for that build) asked if production could be sped up by 2 weeks before the annual Southwest “Good Guys” Car Show/Meet in Arizona. The team was faced with a tough decision: Put the Kenworth on hold and find another buyer? -or- Miss the opportunity to have the Zephyr (below) featured on the latest Speedway Motors catalog cover?

The Red Coats are Coming!

After the success of the photo shoot and the reveal of the Zephyr at the Good Guys show, the team was relived to get back to the shop and focus on their remaining projects. If we jump back to the $285k sale of the “Concept Pair” for just a second … remember Nick Smith, from Episode-5?

He steps back into the picture and proposes a new kind of deal, in-short, merging his shop/efforts with Gotham Garage. This means adding a few new faces (below) and pairs of hands to help “ELEVATE“ the results and move things along.

We’re not a 100% sure what the loaded term “elevate” means just yet, but inquiring minds want to know! #keepitclassytemecula

We close with the teams from the two shops meeting each other and throwing some shop talk (shade) around, a hearty laugh and a handshake, and it becomes a “Stay Tuned… To be Continued” ending with the ’57 Kenworth incomplete. As my wife pointed out, Episode-8 (the season finale) wrapped up rather quickly, leaving Season-4 feeling half baked, “where is the rest of it?” she asked.

Final thoughts…

I want to wrap up this season of Car Masters first by saying, we love this show! The people, the work, the creativity are all top-notch. Some of this review might have come off a bit cynical and jaded, but after 3+ years of faithfully sticking with these builders… they set the bar really high in Season-1 and first impressions are lasting impressions. We hope that you take this review with a grain of salt. And if you’re new to the show, understand that Season-1 was so amazingly good, we’re always comparing any future builds to it.

Even though it didn’t continue through the entirety of the season, the show did add something new: more “office-like” 2:1 moments where team members like Constance and Caveman are seated with a blurred background, breaking the 4th wall, giving us more behind the scenes and emotional input between stages of each build. We hope to see more of that as it gives the audience a break from following all the work.

At the end of the day, Car Masters: Rust to Riches is still a great show that my wife and I completely and thoroughly enjoy watching together, and we wish the team the best of successes, and can’t wait for Season-5!

#rustoration

Confessions of a DeLorean Owner: Don Weberg’s Stainless Steel Obsession

Don W

August 2, 2022

When you hear the name John Z. DeLorean, chances are your mind jumps to the DMC-12 and its cinematic stardom in Back to the Future. But for Don Weberg – founder and publisher of Garage Style Magazine – the DeLorean is more than a pop culture icon. It’s a misunderstood masterpiece, a conversation starter, and a gateway to deeper car culture.

In a recent episode of the Break/Fix podcast, Don peeled back the stainless steel curtain to share his personal journey as a DeLorean owner. What unfolded was a heartfelt, humorous, and deeply nostalgic exploration of automotive oddities, family legacies, and the joy of driving slow.

Don’s DeLorean parked in front of Doc Brown’s house in LA; photo courtesy Garage Style Magazine

Don’s DeLorean isn’t just a garage queen. It’s a magnet for curiosity. Whether parked outside a Texas church or filling up at a lonely gas station, the car draws smiles, questions, and camera clicks. “Smiles per mile,” as Don’s fellow DeLorean owner puts it, is the real metric of success.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

But owning a DeLorean isn’t always glamorous. Don recounts the deferred maintenance, the rubber parts that crumbled from disuse, and the exhaust leak that made the car sound like a diesel. Yet, after some TLC, the car transformed – becoming more aggressive, more responsive, and more fun.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This episode of Break/Fix, features a detailed conversation with Don Weberg, founder, and publisher of Garage Style Magazine, who shares his experiences and insights as a DeLorean owner. The discussion delves into John DeLorean’s significant impact on the automotive industry, his dream of creating the DeLorean Motor Company, and the iconic DMC-12. Don recounts his personal journey of acquiring and maintaining a DeLorean, offering a unique perspective on the car’s handling, quirks, and the strong community of DeLorean enthusiasts. The episode also touches upon comparative anecdotes involving other classic cars, highlighting the practical challenges and emotional highs of classic car ownership. Additionally, there’s a discussion of the evolution and future outlook of the DeLorean brand, including the anticipated introduction of an electric vehicle model.

Never Drive Your Heroes… Why buy a DeLorean?
88 mph… is the struggle real?
The involvement of the British Government and Lotus Cars in the development of DeLorean.
JZD didn’t design his own car, the connection with Giugiaro.
What’s it like owning a DeLorean? Where do you find parts?
We hear the DeLorean is quite strong, is that true? How has this changed now that Steve Wynn has purchased DeLorean and moved it to Humble, TX?
What’s the future of DeLorean? Thoughts on the DeLorean EV.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motorsports podcast, break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motorsports related. The following episode is brought to us in part by Garage Style Magazine. Since 2007, garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors continually delivering information about Automobilia Petroliana events and more.

To learn more about the annual publication and its new website, be sure to follow them on social media at Garage Style Magazine or log onto www.garagestylemagazine.com because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage. When people hear the name John z DeLorean, whether they’re a car enthusiast or not, they will tend to associate it with the DMC 12 made famous by the Back to the Future franchise.

Most people don’t realize how much of an influence John DeLorean had on the automotive industry as a whole. His level of vision and talent exceeded many [00:01:00] quoted as the Godfather of the Muscle Car era. When he introduced the legendary Pontiac g t o, he was always toying with the idea of his biggest venture, the DeLorean Motor Company, which in 1975, he began to realize with full control, John was able to work on any concepts without restrictions.

His first and only creation would be the DMC 12. And with us tonight is returning guest Don Weiberg, founder and publisher of Garage Style Magazine to share with us his true confessions as a DeLorean owner. So Don, I wanna unpack more of this DeLorean story because I’ve never personally sat down and talked to a DeLorean owner.

So, ok, I, I’ll real, real quick, I’ll tell you something, that DeLorean is a secret nobody knows about the DeLorean. So this will be really wild when your podcast comes out if people hear this. But Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Got a DeLorean, where’d that come from? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You know, so it’s fine. Do what you gotta do. I brought it up, I opened the door, as they say in court. So, [00:02:00] alright, so then I’ll make sure all my paid subscribers are sick that day. That’s all. You have struck a nerve with this DeLorean thing, which is really, really important. And, and it’ll, it’ll be good, it’ll be beneficial.

People ask me all the time, why do you have that car? Don’t ask me that cuz that depresses me. You know, cause that makes me think, well, maybe I shouldn’t have this car. Maybe it’s a stupid car. Maybe it’s not a good car to have. Okay, here I go, getting off track. But it comes right back to it. My daughter went to a youth function last night at the church and all these young people running around and, uh, she asked me to pick her up and it’s, uh, it’s very attention getting.

And that’s one reason, you know, I, I’ve loved the Laure since I came out. I, I just, that car, I was what, five or six years old when it came out and it just blew my mind. It just, that car, the stainless steel, the gold wing door, the look of it, I, God, that car just has an unforgiving look to it. It just looks like it’s gonna burn lasers through you or something.

I love the look of that car. One of giros masterpieces, right? It really [00:03:00] was. And yet, you know what’s funny is, is you’ll meet people who don’t know what it is. It’s familiar to them, you know? And I see about DeLorean, you’ve seen one who’ve seen most of them. Well, except for the black one or the copper one, or the the yellow one that somebody’s repainted.

You know what I mean? What kind of car is that? Oh, say it’s a Volkswagen Rocco. Oh, it’s an A zuzu impulse. Well, they’re designed by the same, same guy. Same The same guy. Yeah. And they look kind of similar, you know, it’s really funny you say that. Oh, okay. That’s nice. You know, my running joke as an aside is, you know, we’ve been a VW Audi Porsche family forever.

You are Cuatros what? I drove in college. Wow. You know, flare fenders, like I was the odd kid. I had strange cars. Right. So we’ve had all sorts of stuff. I grew up in the back of Rocco’s and whatnot, so I always tell people, they’re like, oh, you know Audi cou? They’re like, what is that? I was like, oh, it’s a fat Rocco.

Right. But then when you get to the DeLorean and they’re like, what is that? And I’m like, well, that’s an overweight truck. Yeah.

Uncle was a Bosch distributorship. And. Porsche, Audi [00:04:00] dealership owner always drove Audis. And my big joke was, uh, I grew up, I knew what Audis were before they were popular, you know? Mm-hmm. I’d go to here, here’s kind of a funny story. So, you know, they existed, you know, they existed before 1984. Yeah. Good.

Good job. Right? Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Way back when. In fact, kind of a funny story, not a funny story. My, my uncle was a World War II vet, and that’s where he grew. His appreciation for German engineering was, he was stationed in Germany during World War ii. One of the cars he fell in love with had those four circles on it, and he just, he always said it was one of the most graceful, beautiful cars, and it was an Audi.

And he learned all about Audi when he was over there. Came back here and started the box distributorship, and that led to working with Volkswagen, Porsche and then Audi. And there they were, the cars with the circles, and he was so excited to see those. He always had Audi, but kind of a funny story. Junior high school, he had the Coop gt, which is the [00:05:00] emasculated version of the Quatro gt.

You have? I have two. I’ve I’ve had two. My sister still owns one. She had one restored. You know, it’s, it’s funny, it’s only the goofballs like us who were like, oh, who? Look at that. You know? Yeah, right. Everybody else like, yeah, okay, Don here have a coke. You know? Yeah, right. No, I love those cars. In fact, that was his last car was a Mars red Coop gt.

Oh yeah, yeah. Mar Mars Orange. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tornado, tornado pink and Mars orange. They were never red at any point. Yeah, exactly. No, that, that was his car though. But that, that was when I fell in love with, but here’s the funny story. Not a friend, but just a guy I knew in junior high saw me getting dropped off in that car and he said, what kind of car is that?

That looks really, really cool. Well, you know, bright red, you got a 14 year old guy there, whatever. So we’re all impressed by it. And I told him that’s an Audi. So what’s an Audi? Um, it’s a glorified Volkswagen. Oh, cool. 40 years later, I accidentally run into that guy and he is driving Audis. Nice. Yeah. [00:06:00] I, I just thought that was just so funny.

I’m like, do you remember my uncle’s red Audi? No. Really? You gotta be kidding me. The irony of this, eh, whatever, I, I know where we were and it, it is a little bit something No, go ahead. Uh, the church, the church last night, picking her up in the car, a lot of the boys came out. They were fawning over the car, taking pictures of the car.

The older boys finally left leaving three of the younger boys, and so I just walked over and I said, if you want, you know, make sure there’s nothing in back pockets, but go ahead and take a seat, take some pictures. Oh, cool. They were so excited by it. One of the kids in particular really knew his cars. You could tell just by the questions he was asking, by the statements he was making, he was, he really, really knew his card.

I, I think it’s important to, you know, embrace people like that. Let them sit in the car, let them, the parents are good with it. Take ’em for a ride in the car. You know, do whatever you can to introduce them to the car and, and let them experience it. And even if they don’t know what it is, they’ll, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That’s the spark. They don’t know what it is. Well, what is that? That’s such a [00:07:00] weird little car. What is that thing? And they want to know. And the next thing you know, oh, it’s an Audi. Wait, wait, wait. My dad has an Audi. It doesn’t look anything like this Uhhuh, because this is an old Audi, you know, and then the conversation goes from there.

And it doesn’t just have to be an Audi, it could be a weird car, like at the Lian, or it could be an even weirder car, like a Brooklyn or, you know, what is it that turned somebody on? You know, when I was at Motor Trend, I had a little cubicle and I, I took pictures on my cubicle. One of them was a 66 Lincoln Continental with the suicide doors.

I had that car. The other one was a DeLorean. And uh, the other one was a Kunta, one of the other dream cars. It was pointed out to me by one of the editors walking by. He sees the pictures, he stops to look at, you know, what cars are they? And he looks at me and he says, you like weird doors. And I never thought about it before, but he’s right.

I have a thing for weird doors. I, I just never thought about it before. That’s my little hook. I like cars that. Have some sort of oddity to them. You know, I, I, I’ve got nothing against you. Go to an Italian car [00:08:00] show. There’s a billion fiats. Hello? I have one. There’s a billion Magnum pi, Ferrari 3 0 8.

There’s nothing wrong with either one of those cars, and I hate to sound like this. I don’t mean it to sound negative or mean or anything. To have one. You’re kind of just a run of the mill Fiat guy or run of the mill Ferrari guy. You know, you, you’ve got the one car that everybody kind of starts out with or everybody has, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I love three oh eights. I really do. I’d still love to have a 3 0 8. I don’t care what kind of stigma they come with, what I don’t. I like man. Okay. Does that tell you how psychotically stupid I am when it comes to you? You’re the only person I’ve ever met that says that. Yeah. Yeah. I like Mondi. You know, back in the day when I was growing up, when they were new, I thought they were ugly.

I really thought that cab forward that I just thought they were hideous. But one day I was at Concorso Italiano years ago, and we’re walking through, and I gotta tell you this one, it hit me like a brick. It was a coop, not a [00:09:00] convertible, and it was sort of a medium metallic silvery gray. It had lightly tinted windows.

The wheels were not chrome, but they were just polished enough to have a little bit of a glint to the, oh my God. That was the car that turned me. That was the car that made me realize the mon deal can be a really, really nice car. You’ve just gotta know how to dress her up. That’s the thing. So, yeah, no, I, I look at 3 0 8 s and I think, man, those things are something else.

They really are. But there’s some of us out there who, we don’t want the run of the mill. You know? We want something a little different. We want something off the beaten path. And it’s not that we’re trying to be better than anybody. It’s not that we’re trying to be the weirdo of the group. No. We are the weirdo of the group.

That’s why we like the mom deal. That’s why we like that Audi gt. That’s why we like these cars that people say, well, what is that car? And I think a lot of younger people, I’m, I’m, I’m listening to a lot of ’em. A lot of ’em like those cars too. I know one guy who will admit to wanting a [00:10:00] pacer, and he’s just a little older than I am, but he really wants a pacer.

Okay, fine. That’s your hangup. That’s your hangup. I don’t know anybody else in this age bracket who wants a pacer. Not voluntarily, but I’ve met several younger guys. Oh, they want a pacer. They want a Pinto. They want a maverick. They want the Vega. Now the sad thing is I like all those cars too. I think they’re goofy and I love them.

Will I go outta my way to buy one? No, probably not. I want to spend my money elsewhere, you know? But these younger guys, no, no, no, no, no. They’re actively seeking them. They’re looking for these cars. I’m blown away. And these guys are in their twenties, so I was the pacer kid back in the day. I wanted the car nobody else wanted.

I wanted that bastard child car that nobody else wanted. Why? Why do you want that car? You know, that’s not a great car. I, I know, you know, I love nine 20 eights. And again, back then, that was a tiny little community who was like, yeah, nine [00:11:00] 20 eights, 9 28. That’s the way to go. You know, there was, there was like seven of us.

That’s it. And six of us have died. So I’m the only one that’s left. But what’s interesting is that’s not true. What’s interesting is what I’m seeing, the guys that are my age, your age, they love 9 28. We are the kids who grew up looking at those cars on the street saying, wow, what a knockout kind of car.

Look at the headlights, the way they pop up. Look at that rear end, that thing. Uh oh. Did you also notice the 9 28 looks a lot like a pacer. Okay, I don’t want to go there, but there is a similarity there. There is a familiar look. Okay. The 3 0 8 was in the same ballpark. I had a mechanic for my Fiat and he had, oh, did he have a 3 0 8?

It was gorgeous. It was an 85, the very last of the 3 0 8 before the 3 28 came out. 85. Oh, Ferrari red. It was Magnum PI all over the place. Magnum pi. He comes to me one day. I had a Toyota four by four pickup, gorgeous truck, bright red, the whole [00:12:00] nine yards. He says, Don, how do you feel about trading my Ferrari for your Toyota?

Oh, you gotta be kidding me. But in the day that 3 0 8 was $30,000 car, my Toyota was a $27,000 Toyota. So price to price, they’re in the same ballpark. I really wanted to do it, but the Toyota was my daily driver. It was the one that graduated the fiat into becoming the fun car. You know? So I really, if I got the Ferrari, I’d be back in the fiat for the daily driver, and that kind of ruined my goal.

Boy, do I kick myself today for not having traded that car and, you know, whatever. But ba ba. But again, a lot of the older guys were always telling me, don’t do that. Don’t do that. That 3 0 8, eh, it’s not worth anything. Never gonna be worth anything. They built too many of ’em. They were underpowered, they’re not comfortable.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, what kind of Farage should I get? Oh, you know, a 67, 3 30. Seriously. Come on. Well, what fantasy island do you live on? [00:13:00] Because I don’t live there, you know? And then they would say, well get a tester. Oh yeah, lemme just go get a tester. No problem. You know? So Don, we can probably wax poetic about all sorts of cars that we love from the eighties, but I think we need to get back to talking about your DeLorean.

What’s it like? Is it as cool as they say it is? You know, we’ve written some articles about how awesome they are and there’s obviously the mystique behind John Delore and all this kind of thing. So are they as cool as they seem to be? Or are they really kind of as, as slow as everybody makes ’em out to be?

Let’s talk about this DeLorean. Let’s unpack it a little bit. Well, you, you’re talking to a guy who has a fiat, so. And I don’t care about going slow. It doesn’t bother me. That car taught me the art of driving slow. It, it really did. It, it, it made me realize you don’t have to go rocket speeds and you can still have a really good time and look cool doing it.

Is it true that it is a struggle to get to 88 miles an hour just like it was in back in the future? Honestly, no. It, it’s really not. [00:14:00] They, I, I’m not gonna say they’re quick. No, I’m not gonna lie to you like that for the day. I think they were slow quick, if that makes sense. Today they’re just flat out slow.

I mean, you’re not gonna outrun much of anything. It that car, it is not a quick car. It is a fast car. You know, there’s a difference between cars in that regard. There, there are quick cars that are not fast. And there are fast cars that are not quick. This is definitely a fast car that is not quick. It, it’ll do 130, no problem, I’m sure, and that doesn’t sound like a lot to today’s market, but when you go back to 1981 and you say you’ve got 130 mile an hour car, that’s pretty damn fast.

You know? And it is funny too, they always say, oh, it’s a piddly little v6, 2.8 liter from Reno. It had 130 horsepower. It was piddly. Again, I’m not a math guy, so this might be a little wonky, but when you do the math, the 5.7 liter Corvette with its 180, 190 horsepower, the [00:15:00] 2.8 liter reno at one 30, the Renault is making more power per liter, per cubic in ch Wanna do it?

The Reno is making more power. Than the Corvette. The Corvette was quicker. It was Torquer probably lighter too, right? No, Corvets are heavier. The, the DeLorean only weighed 2,800 pounds fully loaded, full fuel, full oil, twenty eight hundred and sixty five pounds, something like that. It wa was not a very heavy car at all.

It was heavier than DeLorean wanted it to be. It was heavier than a Lotus, but Lotus helped engineer DeLorean and Lotus. Wanted DeLorean heavier because Lotus couldn’t have a car better than Lotus. You see what I’m saying? Conflict of interest right there. No, they will move. You just gotta know how to drive it and you gotta keep it tuned up.

And so many of these cars, I mean, when I got mine, it was in the same boat. It hadn’t, I got my car from the guy who, who got it in 97. The car had 17,000 miles on it. When he bought it in 97. I got it from him. In [00:16:00] 2018, it had 20,000 miles. So from 97 to 2018, 3000 miles, that’s all the car rolled. So it was riddled with, uh, deferred maintenance.

It was riddled with rubber that just wanted to break. So we’ve gone through, we’ve dumped a lot of money into it. We’ve dumped a lot of time into fixing those little things that. Broke because they were never used. And I gotta tell you, the last thing was just fixed. Actually this past week. I had a bad exhaust leak.

Yeah, this car was the textbook of it. Struggled to move. Once it got going, you were fine, but getting off the line, whew. Good luck it. It just didn’t want to go. Fortunately I fell back on my Fiat upbringing and realized I don’t need to go quick. I just need to go. And that’s what kind of got me through it here in Texas, they do state inspections and the mechanic who is helping me get the cars to the state inspector, he said, you know, it’ll probably pass, but I worry about that [00:17:00] exhaust leak cuz it, it just click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

It sounds like a diesel. And I don’t know. He said, if you don’t mind, I’d rather fix it. And I said, uh, all right, go ahead and fix it. You know? So he fixed it night and day. The personality of that car is night and day. It is so much more powerful. It is so much quicker. It is, it is. The best word I can use to describe it is aggressive.

It’s not quick. It it, it’s quicker than it was, but it’s still not real quick. But boy does it get too fast. A lot quicker than it used to, if that makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, no, they’re not, you know, the burnout you see in back to the future, that’s bullshit there. There’s no way it boring. Could do a, a burnout like that.

It’s just not gonna happen. 2,800 pounds, all stainless steel, right? So you don’t have to worry about rust other than the frame and things like that. How does it handle, because for that day, 2,800 pounds is pretty heavy. When you consider, like a Rocco was weighing in 1981, Rocco was weighing in at sub 2000 [00:18:00] pounds.

Fiat X 19, sub 2000 pounds nine 14, barely above 2000 pounds. Nine elevens were what, 2200 pounds? Something like that. I mean, it’s a heavy car for 1981. So how does it handle, how does it feel to today’s standards? You know, 40 years later, my wife had a 2015 Honda Accord with a v6. And you give it just a quarter of a chance, it’ll rip a Mustang G through throat out.

I mean, it’s incredible how quick it is. It doesn’t handle very well. You’ve gotta do a lot of driving. When you take it through the curves and the corners up through the canyons, the Honda, it’s very nose heavy. It really, you know, it plows into things, but it’s quick. It’s really, really quick. The DeLorean guy, you feel its weight.

You know when you get it in the curves and the corners, you’ve got some weight under you. But you gotta remember, DeLorean’s original thought was somewhere right around 2000 pounds. That’s where he wanted that car weight. It was right around 2000 pounds. He wanted a mid engine that wasn’t gonna work, [00:19:00] and it was just way too exotic, way too much money for what he wanted to do.

And then the conversation came up too. Mercedes are classically heavy, but there is a reason for that heft. You feel the quality, you feel the heft, and you know, boy, you’ve got a tank. Ford used to call it road hugging weight, right? Road hugging weight. That’s right. That, and I’ll tell you, growing up in a Ford family, I’ve had a number of Lincoln Mark fours, especially those cars, do not discount the mark.

Four. If you know what you’re doing in a mark four, I’ll hold onto your Rocco any day of the week through the canyons. I guarantee it. People always wonder, well wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You got a 5,000 pound boat? How are you keeping up with me? I know how to drive it. This is what I was raised. You put me in your Rocco fish outta water.

I, I have no idea how to make that car go. It, it’s just, it’s too small. It’s, it’s not my wheelhouse. The DeLorean is kind of that nice in between car. It’s got a hef to it. It’s got a size to it. When you’re in it, [00:20:00] you feel very low. You feel very isolated in that car. But yeah, if, if you know how to run the gear, don’t buy the automatic.

Uh, that’s just my opinion. A lot of guys like the automatic, they are really, really slow. They are really, really slow off the line. Are they fast? Yeah, probably. They’ll probably get going, but it’s gonna take ’em forever to get there. So if you’re gonna get one, get a manual transmission. That’s just my thought.

No. Compared to today’s cars though. Yeah, I think they still, I think they’re still valid. I do. Is they’re gonna keep up with your Rocco through the canyons? No, it’s not. But it couldn’t even way back when they were both brand new, it couldn’t do it. It’s not gonna do it now. Well, it keep up with the Lotus.

Maybe if you’ve got the right driver, maybe it’ll hold onto an old Espree, not a new one. But an old one. They are fun. They really are. Back in California, we had a lot more mountains back there than we do here in Texas. I took my daughter on a little drive up through one of the mountains and that was the first time I ever really got to get it into the curves.

And I [00:21:00] realized, geez, this car is 10 times the handler of anything I’ve ever had. You gotta remember, I grew up mostly in a muscle car family. We had a lot of big, heavy cars. My dad wasn’t into little cars. He was into the big heavy stuff, which is why I’m more comfortable canyon taming with a Lincoln Mark four than I would be a raco.

Most guys call me crazy. Well, that’s what I like. I I like those cars. I know how to make a move. I think you’ll understand what I’m saying, but you might not get what I’m saying. The Lincoln just to go crazy. Mulholland Drive. I don’t know if they’re still doing it or not, but back in the day, you had the timers club.

And the timer’s club. It was an illegal club. You met at one two o’clock in the morning and you went from point A to point B through Mulholland and you timed yourself and that was it. Well, the Mark four did it three times. I hate to admit that because I realized how stupid it was now, but back then it was a lot of fun and I was the only one there.

I had the air conditioner on. I had power brakes, I had the [00:22:00] radio. I mean, I was as comfortable as could be, but the car is leaning like the Queen Mary. But if you know how to make that lean work for you, oh brother, you are really gonna be having some fun because when you come through that curve, you got more torque.

Then you know what to do with, to get out of it and you’re gone. You know, so it was fun, but you gotta know how to do it. You gotta know how to take a long, wide car into that curve and make it come out without going over the edge. The DeLorean, the first few curves I almost found over the edge because I was oversteering, I was over trying to correct that car.

Short wheel, base narrow. It’s actually not that narrow of a car, but it is more narrow than what I’m used to. It. It was too touchy. It was really, really something. What was interesting to me was the three oh eights I’ve driven. That’s what it felt like. It felt like a 3 0 8 with a lot less power coming out of the curve.

Yeah. That’s 3 0 8. Interesting. You blip. Yeah. You blip the throttle of a 3 0 8. You’re gone. DeLorean’s not [00:23:00] like that. It takes a little while for it to get going if you’re not, and I’ve, I’ve driven a 3 28 QV and I’m assu, you know, not too different. So I’m assuming that DeLorean is also, it’s a transverse v6 so the layout’s the same.

All it, so it’s, it’s designed, modeled very much after that similar style of, of car of that time. So it should handle relatively the same. It probably does. I think it does. But don’t let the DeLorean Go ahead. You There is a lot of weight behind the rear axle. It’s more like a nine 11. That might actually be a little bit more because it’s not, you know, the DeLorean’s motor is not mounted transversely, like the 3 0 8.

3 28. They are longitudinally. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you got all that engine sticking out past the rear axle. It is a little more nine 11 maybe because nine elevens are longitudinal instead of, uh, transverse. I, I learned something new. There we go. Yeah, they’re, they’re lengthwise and just like a nine 11. You know this growing up in the family You [00:24:00] did, you blip that throttle on nine 11.

You better know what you’re doing because they will just spin. Trailer drive over steer. It’s the name of the game. There’s too much weight, there’s too much weight back there. The polar moment on that is it, it, you know, the pendulum effect, right? It, it’s like a front wheel drive going backwards. So you’re gonna have that washout where it’s basically under steering as you’re going through the corner.

But it’s, it’s harder to control when it’s behind you than when it’s in front of you. It is. And you gotta know how to run that throttle. Mm-hmm. You know, so many people, when they, when they, when it start to slide, they want to back off that throttle with a nine 11. That’s how you spin it. Mm-hmm. You know, you really gotta dig into the throttle more.

And that’s when the card digs its way out of the slide. It’s, you really gotta think backward. Uh, it’s just like a front wheel. Drive open the wheel and hammer it and it’s gonna pull itself out. Exactly. It’s gonna go wherever you point it. Exactly. Now the DeLorean, fortunately it doesn’t really have enough power to get, to get out of its own way.

Yeah. Yeah. So when you come around a curve, you’re already going fast [00:25:00] into the curve. If you start to slide. You’re not gonna power slide into it. Yeah. You, you’re gonna, you’re already going too fast. The gravity, the inertia is gonna start pulling that rear end out, and then you’ve gotta know how to correct it, because again, you don’t have the power of the Porsche.

You’re not gonna be able to nail that thing, and it’s just gonna dig its way out. DeLorean probably won’t do it. Yeah. I mean, it just won’t, it is funny. You get one of these cars and yeah, they look like they go a million miles an hour and they don’t, but you start to realize, you know, if you’re going a million miles an hour, nobody can see the car.

Nobody can appreciate it. Nobody, you know. Well, like I said, I had it to the church for my daughter last night when she was in the church doing her youth thing. That car was outta gas, so I ran it over to get gas and wash the windows and do all that stuff right there at the gas station there. There’s one guy who said, do you mind if I take pictures?

No, go ahead and take pictures. You know, knock yourself out. And then there must have been it. Yeah. It’s eight o’clock at night in the middle of nowhere, Texas. I’m filling [00:26:00] this thing up. There must have been seven or eight people who only one talked to me, but, well, no, two, two talked to me. But they drove by and they saw the window go down and the camera clicked, and then they drove off.

You know, so they’re taking pictures of the car. A buddy of mine who also has a DeLorean, he says, I, I, I rate my car by, by smiles per mile. And I say, well, what do you mean by that? He goes, you know, I’ll drive down the middle of the freeway cuz I want everybody to be able to circle that car and take a look and take pictures and smile and give, gimme thumbs up and all that.

He loves that, you know, and the people love that. You know, and, and yeah, there’s a lot of negativity around DeLorean. Oh, they’re not fast. Okay, well, yeah, they’re not fast, but you know, to today’s standard, a Ferrari 3 0 8 is not very quick either. 9 44, 9 28. I mean, you could list off a hundred cars that aren’t that fast by today’s standards, right?

And yet the 9 44 s oh, you talk about a brilliant underrated machine. Bring up 9 44 in a Porsche circle. You’re gonna be ostracized, you’re out, you’re done. They [00:27:00] don’t want to hear anything about you. But they’re a brilliant car. I love 9 28 to the end of the earth, but they’re heavy. They’re really heavy.

So you’ve gotta know what you’re doing with that car. 9 44 is a brilliant machine. It’s the same layout, front engine, rear trans, but that four cylinder is tucked back. Oh, the balance is wonderful. The balance is wonderful. On those cars, all the things of slowness aside, there’s obviously something that attracted you to the car and it probably wasn’t Hollywood or whatever.

No. Why buy a DeLorean? No. Okay. You ready for another Dom story? You, you’re poor bastard. You keep opening the door for these things. You know? 1981, my dad is getting a Buick Regal Company. Car, car, family. We all go to the dealership to get the car. We don’t care that it’s a cheap little regal. We’re gonna go, you know, I’m little, you know, I’m, I’m five, six years old, something like that.

I don’t know. I must have been being rambunctious because my mom took me for a [00:28:00] walk on the lot. So we’re walking the lot, we’re we’re walking every row of every car. In retrospect, I think she must have been trying to wear me out, you know, just kind of burn off some of that little boy energy, you know? And I’ll never forget, we’re, we’re walking along, there’s a row of cars on our.

Right row cars on our left, but there’s a row car on the, on the right and there’s a gap between the parked cars. And I figured, oh, that, that must be where dad’s car was that that must be the parking space where they pulled his car out from Well, as we get closer, no, there was a DeLorean in the space. It was so far forward.

The long Buicks just buried it. You didn’t see it from until you were right on top of it. And the Buicks were so tall that DeLorean’s only 44 inches tall. A six year old boy sees a gleaming steel car. The car of the future. Right. It looks like nothing else at that time. Yeah. And it’s so short. I can look right in the side glass.

I don’t have to go on my tippy toes to look in, you know, the Buicks, I’ve gotta be up here, you know, looking [00:29:00] for the, for the glass. The DeLorean was right here with eye level with me, and then my mom opens the door. And it goes up, oh my God, hugely impressionable age five years old. Hugely impressionable that that car stuck with me for the rest of my life.

That was the car that was the one to get. I think that same year Canal Run came out and I went to see that film with my family and the beginning of the film. What the heck is that thing? What is making that glorious noise running across the middle of the desert going so fast? Oh, it’s a Lamborghini Kunta.

And look at those doors, Don. They opened this way again, same year. 1981, the little boy and one are my two top dream cards. DeLorean and Kunta let you into my white trash side. I really want Trans Ams. I love Trans Ams. I just love them. Start, you know, with where you can. So I started [00:30:00] with the DeLorean.

We’ve only had it for a few years. We have been broke since we started the magazine. This car kind of fell into our lap and it was a friend of a friend who owned it. We had a good deal on it. It was 20,000 mile car. Uh, it had had two owners. It had, I mean, it, it really, really is actually a pretty stunning car, even if I say so myself.

It is. People look at it and they’re like, holy cow, this is nice. It was one of those moments where my wife agreed, you know what, let’s bite the bullet and live on some ramen for a while and just. Go get that stupid car. If you can get a loan for it, go get it. We did. We took a year to get the loan, but we finally got the loan, we bought the car, and it was one of those moments where now we gotta pay the car off.

I have no money to fix it. I didn’t want to tell family. I didn’t want to tell friends, oh, I’ve got this DeLorean because wait a minute, wait a minute. You’re dead broke. You borrowed money from me, you bastard, and you run out and you buy this stupid car. That’s why I never wanted to tell anybody. That’s the true [00:31:00] car guy right there.

It’s the true car guy. Oh, no, totally. We were hiding it in the garages. We were hiding it down the street, you know? Oh, so-and-so’s coming over. Get the DeLorean outta here. Oh, okay. You know, so literally you’re, you’re limping it down the block cuz it doesn’t wanna run it. It was amazing. It really was. You know, you’re, you’re paying this picture, you got the car now.

All this kind of things. And then obviously he needs repair. I wanna put a number out there for folks and we do have some follow on articles on our website about DeLoreans that were written by Mount Mandan. He has a fascination of those cars too. And he dug into the history. We’ve watched a lot of the documentaries, like, you know, some of the fun ones like framing John DeLorean and some of the other new ones that have come out and, and things like that.

And it’s always good to dive back into that 9,000. That’s the number. 9,000 DeLoreans were built in one year and a lot of people have 9,000 cars. That’s nothing. That’s a lot for a boutique manufacturer to have cranked out in one year. I don’t know. Cuz you know 27% of all statistics are made up, right?

That how many are still on the road? I don’t have those facts and figures, but I hear that the DeLorean [00:32:00] community is very strong. And so I’m wondering, does that help keep these cars alive, help keep the parts out available out there? How difficult is it to, let’s say, keep a DeLorean on the road, if that’s your dream car as well and you’re listening to goes, man, I wanna be like Don, I wanna own a DeLorean.

So what’s it like being a DeLorean owner on a day-to-day basis? It’s a lot of noise. You know, it’s funny being a publisher, being a writer. Most of us are attention whores. We just want the attention. We need the attention. I’m not that guy. I’m really, really not that guy. I don’t need the attention. I don’t want the attention.

I, I love flying under the radar. That’s why, believe it or not, I keep mentioning it, my wife’s Honda, the Honda Accord, that car is probably my favorite car in the driveway right now because you hop in it, you are totally anonymous. Nobody knows who you are. Nobody paid attention to you. You blasted through that red light.

Nobody saw you. Nobody saw you. You get in the DeLorean, everybody in Alaska sees you driving it here in [00:33:00] Texas, you know that they, you just, you get seen everywhere. It, it, it is a different experience. If you don’t mind the attention, you know you’re okay with it. You’re gonna be fine with it. I think the only thing that bothers me about it, which is really ironic, the only thing that I, I’m not gonna say I don’t like about it, but I don’t like about it, is the back of the future stuff.

The irony is that’s the reason that car is so popular. That’s the whole reason. I mean, you’re gonna tell me a Bricklin has the following of a DeLorean. They’re the same basic car, but they’re not. They’re very, very different. But they’re the same basic car. They’re a little two-door gull wing made of a funky kind of material.

One’s fiberglass. The other one’s stainless steel one’s Canadian one’s, Irish, you know, whatever. Potato, potato, potato. Yeah. There, there. Yeah, exactly. But nobody even knows what a bricklin is. I do. There’s so many people out there. I know you do. Yeah. But there’s so many people out there who don’t, you know, they have no idea.

They don’t, they’ve never even heard of a bricklin. I would love to have a bricklin. I think they look [00:34:00] horrible. I really do. There’s something about something, it’s like a C3 Corvette and a DeLorean had a a baby. That’s what the bricklin is, you know? Yeah, yeah. But there’s something wrong with that baby. I mean, there’s just, you know, there’s just something wrong with that baby.

But, you know, I would, I would love to have a bricklin. I really would. Yeah. What is it like to own one? You get a lot of attention. Uh, you really do. Some of it’s good. Some of it’s not so good, depending on your opinion. You know, I hate. Pulling into a gas station, and the first thing outta the mouth is, uh, Hey, where’s the flux capacitor?

You know, are you using a plutonium or a 91 octane? You know, well, what are you using? Okay, yeah, whatever. But again, that’s one of those things you just have to grin and bear it. I mean, how many Ferrari guys do you know with a bread 3 0 8? Hey, there’s Magnum. I mean, how many TransAm guys do you know?

They’re saying, oh, there’s the Bandit, or there’s night rider. It’s one or the other. You know, you’re gonna get that. So you’ve gotta be okay. You know, taking that with it. You really, really do. The DeLorean [00:35:00] community is hugely strong, and they’re very supportive. They’re very opinionated. If you’re okay with that, you’ll be fine.

You know, for me, I learned to bite my tongue because there’s a lot of misinformation out there, and I’m not saying I know everything. You know, 85, 83 was always the number for production. 85, 83, that’s what you might call the John DeLoreans. My understanding, the 85 80. That was when the company shut down because DeLorean was arrested, receivership, took possession, blah, blah, blah.

Consolidated industry stepped up a guy we call the Russian, and he finished the cars that were on the line. That’s where you get 9,100 or 91 83, whatever it is. It, it, there was, it was like 500 cars were completed by Consolidated industry, and that’s where you get that funky number of 90, 91 83 or something like that.

So it, it depends on who you’re talking to. Are you, some guys really just think 85, 83, that’s the number. Some guys just round it and [00:36:00] say 9,000 and I’m fine with that. But then you, you got a lot of experts out there who want to. Correct. Everyone who actually knows stuff and you know, those are your younger guys, those are your guys who, and God bless them, they love the car, they’ve got the spirit.

That’s why the community’s strong. I mean, we live four hours from Houston and that’s where the mothership is and that’s where, you know, you need a part. You go to Houston, they’ve got pretty much everything you need, almost everything you need. So is it hard to get parts for it? No, it’s really not. Uh, believe it or not, during the, I don’t know what you want to call it, it wasn’t a restoration, but during the maintenance period of getting my car back on the road, believe it or not, the majority of them came from an online auto parts store.

And, uh, my mechanic Chris, he blew me away. He would just say, yeah, just go on this online thing and, you know, order me this part, order me this part or okay. You know, so he’d gimme the part numbers and I’d go search ’em out and there they were and buy ’em and he’d install ’em. Car runs like a champ. No problem.

You’ve gotta know how to do a lot of cross pollination with these [00:37:00] cars. Know the, the engine is called the P R V six. It was EO Reno Volvo, and it’s a v6. So those three companies jointly got together and said, let’s develop one engine that we can all share and use. You can take the Volvo’s engine and put it in the DeLorean, but those who know what they’re looking for, they look different.

They have a very different look to them just looking down on top. The internals are all pretty much the same, but looking at them, if you know you’re DeLorean, you’ll look at that and say, that’s not a Reno. And you know, this is one argument I’ve had with, uh, not even an argument cuz I don’t really engage.

But one guy was online and he was trying to tell me that these are all Volvo engines. And he’s an owner. He’s actually got a DeLorean, but he is all of 24 years old. I, I don’t know where he got the Volvo thing from, but John DeLorean signed the contract to buy these engines from Reno in 1980. So these are all Reno vvc?

No they’re not. No they’re not. They’re, they’re, they’re Volvo engine. [00:38:00] Oh boy. Here we go. So that’s when I just back off. Cause I figure either a, the community’s gonna dog pile this guy and say, no, no, no. Don’s right. They’re all renos. But at the end of the day, does it matter? It really doesn’t because here’s the thing, I can go to an auto parts store and say, Hey, I need something for a Volvo 2.8 liter.

It’s probably gonna fit the Reno V six, probably not a hundred percent, but probably the trick I think of owning the DeLorean. And I, I really haven’t had mine all that long. Like I say, I got on 2018, so I haven’t had it all that long, but just from what I’m hearing from the other owners, the body panels are almost impossible.

So if you get a dent, you need to find yourself a good metal worker who can straighten out that panel. If it gets bent beyond recognition, you’re gonna be paying a really, really pretty penny to replace those panels. Uh, the windshield alone can cost as much as $4,000 and everybody says, oh, it’s a Lotus Espree windshield.

No, it is not a Lotus Espree windshield. I was one of those [00:39:00] guys who thought it was an espree windshield for a long time. Haha, because I read it in the magazine article. And you know how it is. We read it in a magazine, the newspaper, we hear it on the tv, we read it on the internet. Oh, it’s gospel. It must be what it is, and nobody wants to be wrong.

You know, above everything else in the world, a person wants to be right. They want to be correct. So what they’ve read, well, I read it, so therefore it is, you know, no, it’s not a lotus espree windshield. That’s what makes them so expensive is you gotta find one of these things. As far as I know, it was a one-off windshield.

Good luck. There were a lot of differences. Between early DeLoreans and late DeLoreans. Most people don’t even know that, but that’s kind of one of the fun things of owning the car in the community. You’ll notice a lot of guys will say, uh, hello, you know, from this number, you know, 2,500. Well, that’s the guy who VIN number.

And by knowing a ballpark, Of your VIN numbers, you know that this guy is probably a gray [00:40:00] interior automatic with a gas flap. So he is a little bit of an earlier car. Guy comes along and says he is 10,414. Okay. He’s a way later car. He’s gonna be an 82 or even an 83 registration, even though it was built.

Earlier back, he’ll have a flat hood, he’ll have the antenna in the back. He’ll, you know, there’s all these little nuances that make the car unique. So many people look at them and they, and I said it earlier, if you’ve seen one DeLorean, you’ve seen most of them. Well, yeah, to a generalist, it’s true. But they, they do have their differences and that’s fun.

You know, to me that’s kind of fun figuring out. Which car has what? So two things as we talk about the future of DeLorean, I did a little segment a while back on one of our drive-through episodes, and I’m sure you picked one of these up cuz I did. I had to have one and the, it’s the marketing slogan got me Charlie Foxtrot watches out of the UK under official license from the Dolorean Motor Company put out.

Time machine watch. Right. Their slogan was Now it your Oh yeah. Now is your chance to own a [00:41:00] time machine. Right. So I bought one, I got, can remember the style? It’s the black louver, like the rear car. Yeah, the louvers car. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a beautiful watch. I bring it out and people like, what is that?

And I’m like, you know, I just handed it to them and they’re like, wait, what? So I’m wondering what did, what did you think about that as the, basically the precipice for Steve Wynn buying out DeLorean, moving it to Humboldt, Texas. And you’ve been teasing us now for years about the resurgence of the brand.

So let’s start there. I, I thought it was great. I really did. It’s like we were talking earlier, encourage the young people. Steve Wynn liked the car. I mean, bottom line, he just had a thing for the car and he took it to the mega extreme by doing what he’s done. If it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t have a centralized community, per se, to buy parts from, you know, it would be very shattered.

It’d be very bricklin. You would have a community. But there’s no one go-to guy. There’s no center point. There’s no focus of effort, and that’s what Steve Wynn has done. If he’s given [00:42:00] us that center of effort, that’s where you can go to get the part. Or if you’ve got the money for it and you want Steve to just give you a perfect turnkey, reliable, he’s worked out all the bugs, DeLorean, he’ll do it for you.

You just gotta be able to write that check. But I think that’s great. You know, I, I really do. And yeah, things like the watches and the bag accessories and, you know, all the little fun things that they put to it. Absolutely. I, I think that’s necessary. I don’t necessarily have one, but yeah, so it, you know, I, I think it’s fun because like, you, you don’t have the car, so you’ve got that little bit of spirit going with it.

It’s in the back of your mind. What would it be like to have a DeLorean, I might like to have a DeLorean one day. They’re almost as weird as an Audi, you know? Um, I, I mean, I’d like to drive your DeLorean, it’s like somebody else’s kids, right? I’ll play with you for a while, but then you can take ’em back home, you know?

Yeah. They’re not that bad. But, but again, you’re talking to a fiat guy. I fear nothing. I mean, really, I fear nothing. You know, you know, the, the Fiat, I don’t know if you know this or not, but, but Fiats [00:43:00] have three turn signals. Did you know that? I did not know that. Yeah. Oh, I can guess what the third one is, but go ahead.

Left, right, and flicker. It just kind of sits there and flickers and you know, the other ones doing this and this one kind of, you know, the, and the, the driver behind you are like, which way is he going? And you’re like, nah, I’m just going straight. You know, it’s the, the wonderful world of Min Yeti Morelli electronics.

Right. Just exactly second, second only to Lucas. Right? Yep. Which is why the English drink warm beer. Right. They make all the, all the refrigerators back there, so, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, it, it’s fun though. I mean, there are deficiencies to the car. You know, DeLorean, getting back to that, there are a lot of deficiencies that came with the car off the assembly line.

But today, thanks to guys like Steve Wynn, thanks to dedicated people who wanted their car to work, they figured out how to make ’em work. Yeah. And they figured out, oh, if we do this, it gets better. Are most DeLorean owners [00:44:00] proper purists, or do you still have the hot rodders out there? They’re like, scratch that, Rene, let’s drop an LS in the back of this thing and have a lot of fun.

Yeah. No, they run the gamut. They really do. They, you’ve got the purists like me. I call myself a preservative, and uh, I like it. As close as it left the factory as possible. But there’s a guy right now on Facebook, he’s building a fascinating car. He’s taken the um, I want to say it’s the Echo Tech, 2.2 liter for cylinder turbo.

He has totally restored his DeLorean. He is totally. Rebuilt this 2.2. It is spectacular. They’re putting it in there. It’s a little four cylinder, but it’s like we were saying before, it’s a modern four cylinder. This isn’t the Vega four cylinder. No, no, no. This is the new four cylinder. That thing will really, really cook.

We got another guy with a, um, a Honda Civic motor he’s put in there. Somebody out there has a North Star Cadillac engine, which that thing must be a beast. And the same with your LS swaps. There’s a lot of guys who are doing these LS [00:45:00] swaps now. Subaru was a popular one. There’s a lot of guys who do this.

They just want the power. They want it to go, they want it to move. I, I think that’s fine. You know, go ahead and do that. Enjoy the car. I’m like, your dad. I don’t like it cutting and welding and doing all that stuff. I, that’s just me. Some guys are fine with it. Now that I have mine, I really don’t care what y’all do to your car.

You know, I’ve got mine and I know what I’m gonna do with it. You know? So there you go. You know, there’s a lot of guys out there who get, they get really bent outta shape that they get modified. Uh, the, the time machines. You talk about a modification. The, the guys who do these time machines, Hey, you want a time machine?

Go do a time machine. I, I don’t care. I’ve got my car. I’m good. I can die now a happy man, you know. But these time machines are also bringing a hundred thousand dollars. That’s where the motivation is. You’ve got these guys who see these and there’s guys out there who are really good at building these time machines.

They’ll slap ’em together, a hundred grand, slap ’em together, a hundred grand. I mean, they’re just, you know, they’re just going through ’em. And a lot of guys are getting nervous about [00:46:00] that because, dude, you’re decimating the community. With all these time machines, we’re gonna have no original ones left.

It’s the same argument about Singer and the Nine Elevens, right? Using nine 90 threes and nine 60 fours, and now I hear they’re moving on to the Carreras and stuff to build these beautiful, they’re gorgeous bespoke nine elevens that are bringing in, you know, hundreds of thousands dollars a piece. But it’s a double effect, right?

You’re causing the what’s left of the market. The prices are surging like crazy. Good luck trying to buy a 9 64 right now, or a 9 93. They’re harvesting rather than building their own chassis like Roof did, and a lot of the other manufacturers in the Porsche world. It’s like, I, I agree. I see it from both sides.

I mean, granted, I would love to drive your DeLorean. I would also love to drive an LS swap, DeLorean, you know what I mean? It’s like, it goes, it goes both ways. I do, I wanna own one. I don’t know, I gotta thin the herd a little bit first. Right? Talking about owning a DeLorean, I have said it more than once on this show.

I am waiting for DeLorean to put [00:47:00] out an ev. Uh, and I said it’s the most appropriate just combination of the two worlds. Give me an ev, DeLorean. And you know, they teased it more often than not. And I think now it’s starting to become a reality. And there’s some more recent spy photos showing what’s coming out of Texas.

Mm-hmm. And what they’re planning. And it looks really cool. I mean, we’re talking throwback of all throwbacks. I mean, the challengers are retro, the minis are retro. But this is a true throwback. As an ev, my only concern is what’s it gonna cost to get this new DeLorean? Right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s gonna cost a few bucks.

I mean, you gotta think the original DeLorean, they stickered for over $26,000. And when you do that inflation calculator, $26,000 in 1981 feels like $75,000 today. They were right there with the Porsches, really? And he didn’t want to be there. If you remember, he wanted to be pricier than a Corvette, but less than a nine 11.

There was a nice little sweet spot in the market that nobody was serving, and that [00:48:00] was where the DMC 12, the name supposedly came from that 12, $12,000. That’s what he wanted it to cost. It didn’t work out that way, you know? And even at $12,000 that was gonna undercut the Corvette. By that time, but you’ll remember this all started in the seventies.

$12,000 was more money than a Corvette. But as time went on and the company was struggling to get going, the Corvette suddenly surpassed $12,000. So now the name didn’t make sense. So we all knew the car was gonna be more, 16, 17,000, maybe it would kiss $20,000 when it hit 26. It really wasn’t DeLorean’s fault, it was the economy.

The economy, the trade debt, everything went crazy and all of a sudden, all of his parts, all of his labor, everything was more money. So that car shot through the roof. So too did Corvette. So too did nine 11. They all became more expensive, but especially painful for the DeLorean because it [00:49:00] was just getting started.

It needed to have, you know, a lower price point, but everybody wanted it. You, you gotta think 1981. I mean, isn’t that kind of the, the peak of the malaise era? There was nothing great coming out of anywhere except for the UR cuatro. And it sold for $35,000 because it was the only production all-wheel drive car available at the time.

So that was the hotness, you know, it was, it was also slow as dirt. It made 165 horsepower. I mean, come on. It was, it was pathetic. Yeah. Hundred 65 horsepower and you gotta drive all four wheels. Yeah, it was, it was, yeah, it was a dog. I mean, I’ll be honest, I owned one, I, I know all about the $10 turbo, but it’s got that mystique because it’s a rally car.

And what people didn’t realize was the homologation rules were garbage. And the street car that we got was nothing like the race car that was out on, on the rally circuits. But that’s, that’s a story for another day. But still at that time, you’re right, it was the probably second or third most expensive sports car available that [00:50:00] wasn’t super boutique like Ferrari or whatever.

Yeah. There wasn’t a whole heck of a lot else going on in in the eighties. No, you still had the 3 0 8. That was the only Ferrari available. Porsche had the nine 11 and the 9 24. You’re like, okay. You know? Right. And the 9 28 and the 9 28. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get into a lot of trouble with this conversation, but.

I really think looking at that era in 1981 specifically, I think the most exciting car out there was the two 80 Z turbo. Oh, I thought you were gonna say the Chevette, which is no sports. We’re talking sports cars. Yeah. Which, which is an opal cadet where most people don’t realize, but that’s a whole nother thing, right?

Yeah. So, uh, the two 80, pretty turbo, but it was so bloated compared to a, let’s, I call it a proper Z The ZX cars were just, oh, they were so heavy and. They were marshmallowy, they were, but look what they did for the brand. You know, again, just like Mustang sales were slipping, [00:51:00] sales were stagnant for Z. So Dotson thought, let’s make it a GP car.

Let’s make it more on par with Corvette. Let’s make it more on par with Porsche, but let’s make it affordable and reliable and inexpensive to operate. Unbelievable sales shot through the roof. It was what people wanted. I, I, I think it’s funny you bring that up and not to diverge too far, but you’re right.

I think that 80 to 83. Was this weird period of in car history where it was like the gray zone or the dead zone because there really wasn’t a lot to write home about. It was maintain the status quo. Whatever you got is whatever you got. Mm-hmm. And then in 84, when the C4 Corvette came out and you had the new carreras coming out, all the new cars seemed to come out in 85.

And actually coincides with another theory we have is that the music world influenced the car world. Yes. And music had a drastic change in 1985 as well. And so the cars changed along with them. And so Chrysler was under [00:52:00] the gun, you know, ia Coca at the helm for the first time in the early eighties.

There was a lot of duress at that period, economically, but also in the automotive world. So DeLorean, I think, you know, with my crystal ball, if he had waited a couple of years, yeah, maybe stockpiled some money instead of embezzling it or whatever he was doing. You know, if he had waited till 84, 85 to introduce the DeLorean, it would’ve been a hit.

Without the movie, it would’ve come at the right time. Cuz if you look at that car, to your point, what we’ve kind of been skirting around here, pun intended, is that it was ahead of its time. It was. It really was. Yeah. And I think you’re right. If they had waited a little longer, that car might have had a better shot.

The electronics would’ve been better. Everything would’ve been better. Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of forces that work against DeLorean. You know, it is just true. You look at, I mean, here we go again. Even the politics back then, when they started the company, It was a much more progressive government in Great Britain, and they were the ones who backed DeLorean.[00:53:00]

By the time the car came around, you had a very conservative fact government. Yeah. And they were not, they were not very interested in supporting a venture that may or may not make it. You know, that was a big part of, you know, what happened there. But yeah, I think you’re right. If the card come out a little later, it would’ve maybe avoided some of those politics.

It would’ve sidestepped the economy, which took a dump around 1981. 1982. It would’ve sidestepped all those electronic garbage. It may have even had time to get a better, that sounds bad, but a better drive train, a better v6, a better, you know, maybe even just put a turbo on it. Something you think back though, to 1981, you saw that car come around the corner.

Your mind was blown. I mean, 1981, what? What are you seeing coming around the corner? What blew your mind in 1981? The Corvette? I like them, but a lot of people don’t. Because they’re not the quickest. They’re not the fastest. They got the big gigantic fenders, that ridiculous wing back there. They, they looked like [00:54:00] a, a plastic filled stripper walking down the street.

They really did. And, and then there’s the nine 11, which let’s face it, looked the same for, for 20 years. Yeah, yeah. 30 years. Yeah. It was in a dark era. It wasn’t doing very well. DeLorean shows up and yeah, it’s not very quick, but you know what? It’s almost as quick as the rest of those big boys almost. The car and driver did a great article.

It was called DeLorean versus the World. You can look it up. It’s the Corvette versus the 3 0 8 versus the nine 11 versus the two 80 Z X Turbo versus the DeLorean. And it is the darnedest comparison because if you wanna learn real quick, How crappy that era was for performance. That test does it. The Ferrari was the quickest, the Porsche was second to that.

The Z was third, and it was right on top of that Porsche. Then it was the Corvette and the DeLorean. Then there was the top speed showdown. Boy was that an eyeopener. The Ferrari was the [00:55:00] fastest, of course, the Z and the Porsche, if I remember correctly, they were tied A, you got a what? 25, 20 $6,000 Porsche and a $17,000 dots in, and then neck and neck.

When you go top speed. That’s absolutely mind blowing. And then of course, you know the COR Corvette was one 30 and the DeLorean was right there at 1 25, 1 30. Whoa. Wait a minute. They were just as fast as each other. Yes, they were just as fast as each other. Nobody wants to admit that. For years and years and years and years and years.

Look, you know how many old guys I met who told, oh, don’t get a DeLorean. Oh, you don’t want a DeLorean. Those are junk. You don’t want a DeLorean. Okay. Well, these are guys who had their hearts broken by John DeLorean because he made the company and then the British pulled out and then he was supposedly embezzling.

We still don’t know. I’ll tell you, DeLorean was doing fine until Colin Chapman got involved. The minute Colin Chaptman got involved, everything started sliding sideways and you talk about a man who knows how to rob Peter to pay Paul. The man ran a racing team [00:56:00] and a car company. You can’t do that without robbing Juan to save the other.

Ferrari, I think is the only one who did it, right. He sold off the road car division to Fiat and then he was able to keep the racing division to himself and going, but they’re separate entities. Fiat controlled one, Ferrari controlled the other. Somewhere in the middle they made music and it worked, but they kept it separate.

They were very good at that. At least that’s the reputation. Lotus was not so good at that. Lotus was always right on the brink of bankruptcy or receivership as they like to say. So for the British government to turn to John DeLorean and say, oh, by the way, we think you should hire Lotus Cars to be your consultant and we think you should hire Colin Chapman to be a partner in engineering.

John DeLorean said it. He, he said it a hundred times. That was when I knew things were gonna not go well. I had no choice. Because the British are financing this whole operation. They’re really the ones who get to pull the [00:57:00] strings and they have just said, you’re gonna work with this guy. He’s our guy. He’s the one who’s gonna make this work for you.

What’s he gonna do? Well, he’s gonna make it work. Well, how’s he gonna make it work? Sigaro has already made it work. Bill Collins was DeLorean’s engineer between him and Sigaro and DeLorean himself. They were getting the car dialed in, but not fast enough for the British. The British wanted to see return on their investment and hey, fair enough.

They put up 250 million pounds in 19 76, 77, 75, somewhere in there. They put up all that money. You know, we just did it for the DeLorean. What does 250 million pounds feel like today? I mean, how much money must that have been back then? That was exorbitant. That was a huge amount of money. You know, when Colin came on board, he said, I knew then we were gonna start having trouble because the last thing Lotus needs is another damn sports car in the market.

They’ve got the esprit. Theri is doing great. It’s in James Bond films. Everybody loves it. And here comes this [00:58:00] damn DeLorean with its stainless steel skin and it’s going doors and it has space behind the seats. We can’t have that. No. The problem started right when Colin Chapman stepped on board and, okay, let me just throw him to the wolves.

Maybe he played off of John DeLorean’s, greed and ego. You know, John, this is making good money. We could open up a research and development center and that’s a great way to funnel money to you. That’s how I get money to my racing team. Research and development. Oh, it’s just like having a marketing department.

People operate a marketing department the same way. So did he do it? Yeah. I hate to, you know, de my hero, but. He probably did, but why did he do it? Because what Colin Chapman says goes, because there’s the queen over there, and she just said, if you want my money, you’re gonna do what I say. Ooh. Yeah. So, sorry, I can get a little bit Oh, oh, no, no.

Because you saved me from telling this part of the story, which I think is [00:59:00] fantastic. And, and as we all know, the lotus past is sorted. And you can read, you know, the different biographies that are out there. Obviously one of the, one of the most accurate ones is by Cromb back, you know, Colin Chapman, the man in his machines.

I’ve written about it. I’ve reviewed it a million times. It’s, it’s a great story. There’s pieces that are missing and then, you know, when everything goes south, suddenly Colin dies quickly soon after all the, let’s say, the shit hits the fan, right? So, mm-hmm. We’ll, never, we’ll never. We’ll never know the truth.

Right. And obviously Mabel just died recently as well and I was hoping maybe they would expose the story behind why it’s called Lotus, cuz that apparently went to the grave as well. There’s a lot of mystery and, and subterfuge I guess you could say there. And it makes it, it makes for a good story right at this point, looking over the 60, 70 years of the company.

And for those that are Lotus fans, I can’t recommend enough going to Barber Motorsports Park to check out one of the largest lotus collections in the United States. I’ve been there. I’ve seen like the original Lotus, you know, all these kinds of things. It’s very cool. It’s a very neat place to go. I mean, the cars [01:00:00] are exquisite.

I mean, there’s nothing to say about that. But the one thing that has always puzzled me about this story, as we kind of wrap up this thought here about the DeLorean, this has been an excellent conversation. Historians have always hung their hat on the fact that John DeLorean is a noted car designer. Like he’s this boy genius.

And there’s been other people like this. I mean, ia Coca is credited for being the, you know, the father of the Mustang, although he never pinned a single line on that thing. But DeLorean was this hot shot. Car designer, but he had Giro design his car for him. And I thought that was always really weird and I never understood how that came to be.

And unfortunately, knowing that, knowing that the pedigree and, and the cars that Giro has penned, I’ll name a few, right? The Rocco, the golf. Mm-hmm. The launch of Delta, the Fiat Panda, you know, as something as basic and utilitarian as that, the, the BMW that became the M one, the nacas. There’s, I mean, if, if you look at his portfolio, it goes on and on and on.

And he [01:01:00] continues to design cars today, and he is involved with things even, even as we speak. But the DeLorean screams Juro, it just is, right. It’s a combination of other designs that he already had in the portfolio between BMW and Volkswagen. And by the way, the Mark two Rocco was a rejected BM W design.

I, I have pictures of the original, uh, I don’t know if you knew that. I didn’t know that. Yeah, the original one, like on the, on the back of the C pillars, there’s BMW envelope, round bells and stuff. It’s pretty cool. Anyway, I think he had a hand in Penny. You are Quatro as well, but I’ll, I’ll leave that where it is.

So anyway, I never understood how DeLorean and Juro married up and how they got together. Do you happen to have some insight on that? Not really, no. I mean, I, I know, yeah, the, the only thing I do know about is, uh, I know that DeLorean’s package idea, which was of course was a mid engine, et cetera, it just wasn’t working out.

And that was part of why Colin Chapman was brought in, was to clean up the mess that DeLorean was trying to [01:02:00] drag through. DeLorean constantly wanted more time, more time, more time to develop the best car he could. Perfect car, yeah. Yeah. And the British were just thinking, you know, how much more can we finance here?

We’ve already given you all this money and all these packages. We need to get a car on the road. We need to start recouping money. And that was where the research and development came from. You know, let’s just put a car out there real quick. Let’s get it done. So we start making money back. We’ll open a research and development and you know, we can start making a better car.

That was, that was the theory as it was told to me. The Juga connection, I can only imagine had something to do with, wrap this up, make a car that we can put together, we can get on a container ship. And yet I think about shipping. People don’t think about this. Cars have to be a certain length. And a certain width to be on the truck.

To be on the ship, et cetera. You know you’re gonna get more DeLoreans on a ship than you are Lincolns because the Lincolns are longer. You’re only gonna get six to seven Lincolns. You can probably get [01:03:00] nine or 10 DeLoreans cuz they’re shorter, they’re smaller cars. That was a big part of it too. How do we package this car so that it, and I’m sure Jaro had something to do with that.

You know, going back to the garage style conversation, you asked me the most amazing garage I saw, and I told you it was a. Building above a lot. He was a designer. I told you that he got a call around 1979 from John Delore in 1980 saying, uh, Shiro is pinning his car and he doesn’t like any of the wheels that the Italians are coming up with.

Would you mind designing some wheel concepts for me? He said, no, no problem. So he designed all these different concepts, sent them to DeLorean. DeLorean sent them to Sigaro. DeLorean said, I like this one. The turbine style that the car actually wears. And so that was, uh, that’s where that came from, was that man who has that garage that I’m in love with back in California.

The thing I’m really, really hoping to get my hands on, he still has the original sketches. Ooh, that’s cool. I’m [01:04:00] really, really hoping, you know, to get ahold of those. I don’t care if I have to pay for ’em or if I have to kill ’em, whatever, you know, I just really wanna get ahold of those sketches that just blows my mind.

Anything delo and I try to buy it, you know? But yeah, how Jaga really got involved. I, I don’t know. I, I could only imagine it had something to do with the packaging or that he was super popular at the time. Right. He was an up and comer. He had designed a ton of cars that were, were winners maybe, you know?

Yeah. And it, and it did give him cachet, you know, it did give that car cachet, you know, the bricklin was designed by. Somebody in Canada, I guess. I don’t know. Just Bill Canada too. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody cares. You bring up the Lori and if people know that, oh, that’s a Jaro design, you know, and then like you and I were joking, it looks like a Rocco.

It looks like an impulse. There’s your packaging. Jaro already had an idea of how we can put this car together. The two things John was adamant about were the gulling doors and the stainless steel. As far as I know, pretty much everything else he was negotiable on. He was willing to [01:05:00] listen to why we should do something different.

And when the British started squeezing him saying, look, we gotta get a car out and we, we gotta do this. And isn’t that ironic? Fast forward to now Humboldt, Texas, they’ve been teasing us with a new car For how long? I mean, forever. They seemed like they’ve been teasing us with a new car. That was kind of the road John DeLorean was heading down was he would just make it better.

Make it better. Make it better. Well, John, we’re not building a Mercedes here. We’re not building a Rolls Royce. We’re, we’re building a little sports car. So people are gonna have fun. People are gonna have something different. You know, we, we need to keep that in mind. At back of, uh, DeLorean’s mind was always quality, quality, quality, quality.

Well, then I’ll start as sight sideways. I love Lotus. I do. I’m an Spreet kid all the way. Everything started sliding sideways when tall Enc Chapman and Lotus Motors got involved. And so let me ask you this, and I’ve never asked this on a pit stop before, and this is my last question, I promise. Does the statement hold true for the DeLorean now that you’re an [01:06:00] owner?

Never drive your heroes. I, I can understand it. I mean, I have a rule. Never meet your heroes. You know, and I, I established that rule because I met some heroes from Hollywood. I met some heroes in the industry. I met some, you know, it left me cold, you know, so I just thought, well, anybody I admire in one of those industries, I’ll stay away from, no, I, I like driving the car.

I do, I, I’m not gonna say it’s a fun car. It does have a little bit of a ishness to it, because you got those huge A pillars. You know, you got that real low roof line. I’m, I’m six two, so I sit up pretty hard in that car. But DeLorean was six four and you know, he fit in the car, okay? It’s psychological, but you’ve got that little male slot window, that horizontal line right there for the window.

When you see it peripherally again, it ties in with those big A pillars and it ties in with that. And you look in the rear view mirror, you don’t see much. You know, there’s not much. So you really do feel cocooned in there. I mean, I’ve said it a hundred times. I’ll say it again. I [01:07:00] enjoy driving my fiat more than I draw.

Enjoy driving the DeLorean. It’s a much more fun car. It’s nowhere near as quick. It doesn’t handle as well. It does, but it rides nicer. It really does. The fiat rides beautifully. It drives nicely. It’s a humble car. People look at it, they smile, they give a thumbs up, they wonder, what is that car? And at some people are even, you know, they, they look, oh, this is the new Fiat.

What is a, this is a, this is a 79, 79. Fiat’s been around that long. Dude, Fiat came around in 1899. What? Yeah, they don’t know. But here we are with a young person who’s showing interest. So you don’t wanna insult them. You don’t wanna smash ate them. Yeah. Right. So bring them around, you know, if they’ve got the fiat bug, you know, let ’em, let ’em, let ’em, uh, let ’em have it.

So, no, I, I think that DeLorean is fun, but it’s its own brand. If look, this will be loaded because it’s an opinion is a nine 11 fun. Depends on who you ask. Yeah. It depends on who you ask, you know, and I like nine elevens. I do, [01:08:00] but. The few that I’ve driven have just kinda okay. Honestly, I, I just, I, I really don’t understand it anymore.

And you know what? Maybe that’s my bias because I had so many people back in the day, leave me wrong and tell me, don’t buy that 77. You know, I, I don’t know. Maybe I’ve got something wrong with me up here, but I think that DeLorean’s a lot of fun. I think it gets a lot of bad rap, and I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding floating around out there.

Again, it boils down to it. If you’re interested in it, go get one. You know, go, go try one out. Go, go get involved with the community. You know, I, I’ve always been a car guy. It, it doesn’t matter what kind of car it is, I’m probably going to like it, but I’m a little bit biased that way when it comes to cars.

My wife hates the cars. I mean, she does, she just, you know, get rid of all of’em and let’s just have the Honda and I just, okay. In an alternate universe, far, far away, that’s, you know, Rob Sterling, his president in, maybe it’ll work. I don’t know that that’s the same as when somebody tells you to get rid of all the appliances in your kitchen and just have an air fryer.[01:09:00]

You’re like, or Insta Pot. You’re like, oh yeah, I guess it can do everything. Sure. But it’s not the same. It’s not the same. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. It, it’s a very different, I was worried about getting the car, like you say, I, I was because I thought, what if I hate it? You know, what if I hate it? You know?

That was a thought that ran into my head. And then how do I tell my wife, oh, I hate it. You know, I, I’m kind of stuck with it cuz she backed it up. I don’t hate it. I really don’t. Especially now that that exhaust leak gets fixed, it really woke that car up. It’s a lot quicker. It’s a lot more aggressive.

It’s a lot more fun. The more reliable we make it, the more fun it becomes. Yes know, I don’t Exactly. That’s true of any old car. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And you’ve gotta be able to, you know, you can’t stub your toe. DeLorean, there’s so much stuff swirling around about it and a lot of it is wrong.

A lot of it is correct and I learned that from my car. I, holy cow, they weren’t kidding about this. My car was literally all original when I got it right down to the fuses. Everything was original in that car and everybody would’ve blown away. [01:10:00] They thought, holy cow, this thing is original. Well, if I want a paperweight, that’s great.

But if I wanna be able to drive it, well, we’ve gotta upgrade the fuse box. We’ve gotta upgrade the fuses. We’ve gotta, and that’s where my mechanic, Chris came in and he started and he knew my budget. He knew it was very sensitive, very shallow. So we had to go piece by piece by piece and just slowly correct this car.

Yeah. When I first got it, I was terrified of him. My God, is this thing gonna leave me stranded somewhere? Is this thing, you know what? What am I getting myself into today? It’s a different ballgame and you can hop in it and enjoy it and have fun. And that, I think is what makes it fun. But people have to give it that chance.

You can’t get a DeLorean and it breaks down on, you can’t get any car and it breaks down on you. But DeLorean, especially because there is such misinformation about that car, about how piece of junk they are, you can’t stub your toe on that first problem and say, oh my God, here it is. The DeLorean Thunder Cloud is over me.

No, it’s not. It’s just, you know, this is a deficiency that came with the [01:11:00] car from the factory. You just have to correct it. You know, and there are a lot of deficiencies. There really are my best advice for anybody who’s even thinking about one, buy the best you can. It’s gonna cost you money any way you look at it.

You’re either gonna pay money to get the best one you can, or you’re gonna pay money piece by piece by piece to a mechanic. Or if you can do it yourself, that’s great, but you’re still gonna be buying those parts. My advice is, unless you don’t mind doing the piece by piece, just go get the best one. You can just find the best one you can, the one that’s sorted before this one came along, I almost bought a red one.

Of all things. And I never dreamed of a red DeLorean. I wanted the silver one, but this one popped up. It was out in Palm Springs. My wife and I were out there for a weekend. It was cheap. Apartment had 8,000 miles on it, you know, and I’m feeling like, boy, that’s a lot of miles for a DeLorean. So I called my DeLorean guy and I, I, it was before Chris and he said, if I were you, I’d play that car.

And I said, why? He said, the red, if you don’t want the red, we can take the red off and you’ll be right back to stainless steel. The fact that it’s got 80,000 miles [01:12:00] down, everything’s been done to it. That car is a runner. That car is solid. He said, let me ask you this. What kind of exhaust system does it have?

And I said, well, yeah, that was the other thing. It’s got the, uh, the humble Texas exhaust system. He said, see, that’s a good thing because it’s been upgraded. He said, if I were you, I’d buy that car. The price is right. It’s a runner. The only thing you’ve gotta do is take the paint off it cuz you don’t like the paint.

At the end of the day, I was, it was terrifying to me to buy a DeLorean with that many miles. I saw it the wrong way. Now that I have this really low, mild DeLorean. I see what he was saying. I’m having to go through all these little repairs. That that car never had the chance to get done. But the red one, man, that car was driven all over the place.

As it turned out, that was an Orange County car. That was a Newport Beach car. And my doctor at the time lived in Newport Beach. So I, I asked him, I said like, I got a weird question for you. He says, what’s that? And I said, you know, DeLorean, you know these cars? He says, yeah, you ever see a red one running around Newport?

Oh yeah, that belonged to Bob Paulson. That was Bob’s car. You know this guy? Oh yeah. [01:13:00] He ran that car all over the place. Was it a good car? Must have been. He ran it all over the place. He was always driving that car around. So where’s Bob now? Oh, he is dead. Okay. You know, but it gives you a hint right there.

Driving around a little old town that I live in here in Texas, believe me, that car gets a lot of attention and I’ve heard it two or three times. This has to be the only one in the county. Might be true. I don’t know. I never thought about it. But it might be true that red one was definitely the only one in Newport Beach Red.

There were a lot of DeLoreans in Newport Beach, but that was the only red one stood out. People knew that car and yeah, I dunno, I guess I’m rambling here now, but No, it goes back to the joke that you never buy a jag with low mileage cuz you know that it didn’t run right. It’s the same thing when you’re looking at those really boutique cars.

Maserati buy turbos are the same way. You buy one with high mileage because you know that it was a runner. Right. So sometimes it’s the opposite thinking and you just have to get over it. No, I appreciate that though. So I was gonna say, Don, this has been an absolute pleasure having [01:14:00] you on the show. I mean, we went well over time.

That’s great. We actually got, basically got two episodes out of this, which is awesome. But I want to, I truly, honestly believe in what we’re all doing in this community. We do need to help each other out and I look forward to seeing where GSM goes here in the near future. Yeah, me too. No, this is fun. You, you, you’ve overwhelmed me with this, but yeah, thank you.

I’m looking forward to, yeah, I’d love to collaborate on various things. I think there’s a lot to, to do and like you say, It, it is a very interconnected community anymore. And it’s not just the car community, it’s, it’s communications, which is what we’re, our business is. That’s what you do here with this.

That’s what I do with the magazine. We’re all in communication. You know, we’ve gone from the nuclear age to the, uh, to the communications age. Right. It’s very interesting, you know, when you think about that. Since 2007, garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors continually delivering information about Automobilia Petroliana events and more.

The quarterly publication is distributed [01:15:00] through subscription newsstand and events and is now moving to full digital. And you can learn more about the publication at www.garagestylemagazine.com or follow them on Social Garage style magazine. Alright, well thank you very much. I’ve had a ball. I really, really have, and I’m sorry if I dominate the conversation.

I do tend to chat quite a bit. Like I say, I think it’s the, uh, the Irish me, I nearly married an Italian girl years ago, and the trouble would’ve been who gets to talk next? You know, we were both, we were both constantly talking and talking and talking and uh, and then she would, you know, she would inevitably start talking with her hands and all that.

I’m like, eh, this isn’t gonna work. And so, all right. Thanks Dawn. Have a good one. Thank you, you too. Bye. Bye now.

The following episode is brought to us in part by Garage Style Magazine. Since 2007, garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors [01:16:00] continually delivering information about Automobilia Petroliana events and more. To learn more about the annual publication and its new website, be sure to follow them on social media at Garage Style Magazine or log onto www.garagestylemagazine.com because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at Crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this [01:17:00] one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

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The DMC-12 vs The Bricklin

DeLoreans are uncommon, but they’re nowhere near as rare as a Bricklin SV-1. Like the DeLorean, the Bricklin takes its name from a larger-than-life person, Malcolm Bricklin. He was also responsible for introducing fledgling Subaru to North America, bringing in the Subaru 360 and FF-1 to America in the ’70s. When this wedge-shaped chunk of 1970s Canadian fiberglass hit a financial wall, there was no movie role to rescue its reputation. With a 175-hp V-8 married to a three-speed automatic, it’s also not much of a performer. Both cars are odd, one more iconic than the other… but both have a distinct cult following, and some DMC-12 owners also have SV-1s … because (gullwing’d) birds of a feather 😉

Want to learn more about the DMC-12?

Turn up the way back machine and check out this in-depth article from our archive by Mountain Man Dan where he covers the DeLorean story, including JZD.

Since 2007, Garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors, continually delivering information about Automobilia, Petroliana, Events, and more. The quarterly publication is distributed through subscription, newsstand and events and you can learn more about the publication at www.garagestylemagazine.com or follow them on social @garagestylemagazine

Don’s philosophy? Speed isn’t everything. “My Fiat taught me the art of driving slow,” he says. The DeLorean, with its 130-horsepower Renault V6, isn’t quick by today’s standards. But it’s fast enough to feel thrilling, especially when you understand the difference between quickness and top-end speed.

Handling? It’s a mixed bag. The DeLorean’s weight – 2,865 pounds fully loaded – is hefty for its era, but manageable. Compared to modern cars, it’s surprisingly nimble, especially with a manual transmission. “Don’t buy the automatic,” Don warns. “They’re really, really slow off the line.”

A Taste for the Eccentric

Don’s love for the DeLorean is part of a broader affection for automotive oddballs. From Audi Coupes to Lincoln Mark IVs, from Fiat X1/9s to Ferrari Mondials, he gravitates toward cars with quirks – especially those with “weird doors.” His cubicle at Motor Trend once featured posters of a ’66 Lincoln Continental, a DeLorean, and a Lamborghini Countach. “You like weird doors,” a colleague remarked. Guilty as charged.

He’s also nostalgic for the cars that shaped his youth. His uncle, a WWII vet and Bosch distributor, introduced him to Audis before they were cool. Don still remembers being dropped off at school in a Mars Red Coupe GT and telling classmates it was a “glorified Volkswagen.”

Inspiring the Next Generation

Don’s passion isn’t just personal – it’s contagious. He recounts letting kids sit in the DeLorean, answering their questions, and watching their eyes light up. “Even if they don’t know what it is, that’s the spark,” he says. “They want to know. And the next thing you know, they’re hooked.”

Whether it’s a DeLorean, a Pacer, or a 928, Don believes in embracing the cars that speak to you—even if they’re not mainstream. “We don’t want the run-of-the-mill,” he says. “We want something off the beaten path.”

For Don, the DeLorean isn’t about Hollywood or horsepower. It’s about connection – between generations, between enthusiasts, and between driver and machine. It’s about the joy of being different, the thrill of nostalgia, and the satisfaction of preserving a misunderstood icon.

So, why buy a DeLorean? Because it makes people smile. Because it starts conversations. Because it’s weird, wonderful, and wholly unforgettable.

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

The following content has been brought to you by Garage Style Magazine. Because after all, what doesn't belong in your garage?

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And if you really want to go off the deep end, join a social community just for car nuts at www.garageriot.com – available on web/apple/android, FREE.

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We want to thank Clio for coming up with these awesome questions and making us think about how we can boil them down and make understandable answers for up-and-coming vehicle enthusiasts to get excited about the things we’re most passionate about… cars!

Remember… in order to keep our hobby and motorsports alive, get your kids involved as early as you can. They’re the next generation of Petrol-heads!

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

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GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014