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Randy Lanier’s Road Back to Racing

In 2015, Mike Carr sent a letter to a halfway house in Florida. The recipient? Randy Lanier – former IMSA champion, convicted drug trafficker, and author of Survival of the Fastest. What followed was a story of redemption, racing, and stone crabs that reads like a Hollywood script.

One day in 2015, I got an email from a stranger named Mike Carr, who lived in Pennsylvania. He told me he raced a BMW and that he’d read about my story in a magazine. He wanted to know if I’d team up with him for an endurance race at Mid-Ohio coming up. I stared at the words on my computer screen for a long time, wondering how to respond. My prosecuting attorney’s name was Michael Carr. So this stranger reaching out with the same name? I don’t know what to make of it. Finally, I typed the words: Is this a joke?” – Randy Lanier.

Photo courtesy Randy Lanier

Nope, not a Joke. 

Lanier had just been released after serving 27 years in federal prison. Carr, a Pennsylvania-based attorney and grassroots racer, had read about Lanier’s release and was inspired to reach out. “I sent him a letter,” Carr clarified, correcting Lanier’s book, which mentioned an email. “He was in a halfway house – I didn’t know what kind of access he had.” Lanier remembered: “Thanks, Mike, for setting the record straight. I was still figuring out email. It was like going from the Flintstones to the Jetsons.”

Lanier marveled at modern tech. “I was into beepers and payphones. Now phones talk back and give directions.” He also reflected on racing’s evolution: “Cars today have so much assistance – ABS, traction control. It’s amazing, but I prefer raw driving.”

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Carr’s team, Rally Baby Racing, had evolved from humble beginnings in the 24 Hours of Lemons to a national championship-winning crew. By 2013, they were fielding 10+ cars and 40 drivers. When American Endurance Racing (AER) launched, Carr saw an opportunity- and invited Lanier to join. “I watched Randy race as a kid,” Carr said. “He was beating factory-backed Porsches in an unsponsored blue car. I had to meet him.”

Randy Lanier on Break/Fix Podcast
Photo collage courtesy Mike Carr

Despite tight parole restrictions, Carr negotiated Lanier’s travel to Mid-Ohio. “I told the parole officer Randy would be instructing. Technically true,” Carr chuckled. “He hadn’t driven in 27 years, but I had a BMW and a dream.”

Spotlight

Synopsis

This episode of the Break/Fix features an in-depth conversation with former race car driver Randy Lanier and attorney Mike Carr. The episode explores Randy’s transition from a renowned racing career marred by a major 1980s drug scandal to his redemption story post-prison, where he re-enters the racing world and becomes an advocate for cannabis legalization. Randy shares his fascinating life experiences, including his legendary racing feats, the impacts of his marijuana trafficking operations, his time in prison, and his profound journey towards mindfulness and teaching yoga. The dialogue highlights his recent achievements, including earning a cannabis cultivation license in New Jersey and plans for a feature film based on his autobiography “Survival of the Fastest.” The episode also touches on the challenges and triumphs of their renewed friendship, which began with a fortuitous email and evolved into a supportive partnership.

  • Mike you’re mentioned almost at the very end of the book, and the reader is left wondering… is the man who invited Randy to the track the same “former assistant US attorney” Michael Carr? If not, what’s your connection to Randy? Take us back to 2015
  • Back when you were racing, especially in IMSA, there were lots of folks that were also coming up through the ranks crossing between series like TransAm and CanAm and others. Who were some of your rivals? Who were some of your racing buddies? What was it like to race with/against Derek Dell, and Break/Fix guests like Lyn St. James
  • One thing that remains unclear is your driving ability/style. Where did you learn? Just on the backroads of southern virginia? Did you have coaching over the years? Or did you just #sendit and learn on the fly?
  • For me a lot of this story starting coming together at last year’s Petit LeMans, while I was down at Road Atlanta, i remembered that the Bill & Dale Wittington at one point owned Road Atlanta, and literally across the street is “Lanier Raceway” – I never really put 2+2 together, that’s not a coincidence, right?
  • In BAD SPORT they show you reuniting with Charles Podesta; do you still hang out with any of the “old crew” – what about Allan? What about Pam? 
  • You see sometimes in sports organizations when something like this happens, people are “stripped of their titles” – do your records, wins and championships still stand? 
  • What happened to the Blue Thunder, March Chevy GTP cars? Were they sold or seized? Are they in a private collection or somewhere people can see them? 
  • During your time away, you’ve become quite the artist. Where did that come from? Did you just pick up a brush and start?
  • What’s next for Randy Lanier? 

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: One day in 2015, I got an email from a stranger named Mike Carr, who lived in Pennsylvania. He told me he raced a BMW and that he’d read about my story in a magazine. He wanted to know if I’d team up with him for an endurance race at mid Ohio coming up. I stared at the words on my computer screen for a long time, wondering how to respond.

My prosecuting attorney’s name was Michael Carr. This stranger reaching out with the same name? I don’t know what to make of it. Finally, I typed the words, Is this a joke? Nope, not a joke. That’s a quote from the [00:01:00] 2022 book Survival of the Fastest Weed Speed and the 1980s drug scandal that shocked the sports world by Randy Lanier.

And with that, please join me in welcoming both Mike Carr and Randy Lanier to Break Fix, along with special guest co host GTMer Tom Newman to tell the rest of this incredible story. So welcome to the show, gentlemen. Thank you.

Randy Lanier: And Mike, uh, happy to be here with you. Uh, pretty awesome. Thank you.

Mike Carr: It’s been a fun, fun time.

Crew Chief Eric: So normally on this show, we would start off by asking, let’s get down to the who, what, where, and when of your origin story. But in this case, we can quickly and easily fall back on both the book survival of the fastest and an episode entitled the need for weed on Netflix’s documentary series, bad sport.

So let’s leave that to the side and talk about. Where is Randy Lanier now, starting from those last two pages of the book, where our introductory quote came from? Mike, you’re mentioned [00:02:00] almost at the very end of this book, and the reader is left, and myself included, left wondering, is the man who invited Randy to the track the same former assistant U.

S. attorney, Mike Carr? If not, what’s your connection to Randy?

Mike Carr: I’m an attorney, but I am not a prosecutor, worked for the public defender’s office for a while.

Wow.

Mike Carr: I think it was 2014, Jalopnik came out with a story about Randy getting released from prison. And I knew of Randy from when I was a little kid.

I’m from a town called Doylestown, Pennsylvania, which is the home of legendary racers, Bob Holbert and Al Holbert. My family was friends with the Holbert family and we would travel to places like Watkins Glen and, you know, different tracks around the country. To watch Al drive. Randy was kicking Al’s butt in this unsponsored blue car, you know, Al’s driving a Porsche factory, nine 62 and Randy is beating him.

I had heard rumors at the time. I’m [00:03:00] probably like maybe 14, 15 years old, that there was drug money involved with John Paul senior and John Paul jr. And that the lack of sponsorship might be a result of. Some, you know, sort of under the table type stuff. And I was fascinated as a teenager, I didn’t really follow Randy’s story until it came back 27 years later.

And Randy was getting out. Randy made a mistake in the book. That wasn’t an email that I sent him. I sent him an actual letter. On paper, he was in a halfway house. I had no idea what kind of access to email he had, but at the time I was racing with AER. Give you a little bit of background on the Rally Baby team that enabled me to bring Randy out.

We started racing Lemons in 2010. None of us knew what we were doing. I’m from a family that was into cars. You know, racing was always aspirational. And it seemed like there was a high wall to get over in order to get on the track. When lemons came along, we built a car [00:04:00] and then we built another car and then we built another car and then we built another car and we got a guy on the team who was a really good cage builder, which facilitated us turning into a big race.

In 2013, I think we were running like 40 drivers and maybe 10 or 12 cars that enabled us to win the 2013 national championship with lemons. And then AER came along and we’re like, well, let’s jump to there. And that’s where I met Randy. And I’m like, I want to take Randy to AER. And it worked out the way it did, which was pretty good.

Tom Newman: That’s actually how Mike and I met was through the 24 hours of lemons. I was a judge and this is not an exaggeration, but my first introduction to Mike was him groveling to get one of his cars out of the penalty box.

Mike Carr: Doesn’t make sense.

Randy Lanier: Legal expertise, Michael.

Mike Carr: We were heavily involved with road and track and car and driver and Jalopnik at that point, trying to get the series off the ground.

[00:05:00] And I said to the guys at Jalopnik, maybe I could do something with Randy. And they’re like, yeah, you know, we’ll work it. They didn’t really do anything. So I just took it upon myself to reach out to Randy and say, Hey, do you want to come drive? We got a race coming up in mid Ohio. I told him my story about having watched him as a kid.

I was astonished to get a letter back. It was so great when he said, if you’re not the, my car who prosecuted me, I wouldn’t be happy to come drive your car. So we set it up. I, it was some work. He had a parole officer who was. Looking over his shoulder pretty tightly. And I don’t want to say I made up that he was going to be working as an instructor.

I put out that there was an opportunity for people to get instruction from Randy. But I mean, to be honest, Randy hadn’t driven a car in 27 years. And so I wasn’t kind of certain that he was going to be a good instructor at that point, but I had an old BMW that, uh, we could haul out there and see what we could do, and it seemed like an opportunity.

It was too good to pass up. [00:06:00] Truth told, I was right. It worked out marvelously.

Randy Lanier: Mike, I want to thank you for recharging my memory because I was at a halfway house and I do remember the letter now and trying to set up an email because everybody was telling me you need to set up emails and I didn’t know nothing about emails.

Right after the letter, I eventually got my email service. hooked up. And I think I remember emailing you. It was like a big thing for me to get on the email. So thanks Mike, for setting the record straight with the letter.

Tom Newman: I imagine it was a lot like being part of the Flintstones and then dropped into the Jetsons.

Randy Lanier: Yeah, it was amazing coming out and seeing all the advances with the telephones. I was into beepers and pay phones back in the eighties. And then when I come out in 2014, everybody’s on these phones that Tells you directions and ways to go and talks back to you. That was a big change to hear phones talk to [00:07:00] you.

And with Michael, it was amazing because I was still at the halfway house and for my probation officer to agree to let me go out of state, they was giving me like 27 minutes from getting from my job to my halfway house, they would time me. I have to be from when I leave work, I have to be at the halfway house, but then 27 minutes.

They had my route figured out that close. They gave me like a few minutes of budget to get over, but they let me go. Mike, I see you’re a good attorney cause you negotiated that whale. So Do

Mike Carr: you remember I was down at the 24 hours of Daytona the year that you were still in the halfway house as a spectator and there was a big snowstorm up East.

My flight got delayed because they didn’t want to fly out on a Monday morning to this huge snowstorm. And so I had Monday free into Tuesday and I rented the worst rental car I’ve ever [00:08:00] rented in my entire life. And I drove from Daytona down to Lauderdale where you were. And you’re like, stop at this place and bring me some stone crabs.

I didn’t know how much stone crabs cost. I bought like a hundred dollars worth of stone crabs. And we sat with you and your daughter on that picnic bench outside the halfway house, and they kind of got to know each other and ate stone crabs, which was a really good experience. I’d never had them before.

And you looked at me and you go, what time’s your flight out? Daytona, you got to get in the car. I didn’t want to stop talking.

Randy Lanier: I remember that and didn’t you

Mike Carr: missed your flight? I didn’t miss my flight. Here’s what happened. I had time to either stop to pee or stop to get gas. And I needed gas, but I really needed to pee a whole lot worse.

I didn’t get gas and I drove that rental car up to the entrance to the airport and I was sitting in a red light and it ran out of gas. I couldn’t get into the airport, but I had all [00:09:00] kinds of cab numbers in my phone. And so I called a cab and they’re all right there at the airport. This cop pulls up and he’s like, I’d give you a ride, but look, I’m here on a motorcycle.

A cab shows up, runs me the quarter mile into the airport. And I’m sweating and I’m trying to get on the plane and I know I’m going to miss the plane. I don’t miss the plane. I get on the plane. I’m with this girl and the flight attendants know that I’m like stressed. They hand me a bottle of water and a paper towel to like wipe the sweat off my head and I’m on the plane.

So I’m happy. And this German who was driving at Daytona the day before is sitting behind me and he’s speaking German and he says in German, look at that fool. He about missed the flight, and I turned around and I go, Ich kann ein bisschen Deutsch. I let him know that I spoke German, and he quit making fun of me.

And I made it home.

Randy Lanier: What happened to the rental car?

Mike Carr: I threw the keys over the counter, and I said, Your car’s out there by the entrance to the airport, and I [00:10:00] never heard another word. Yeah, they didn’t charge my credit card. It was out of gas. I don’t know what they did. I never heard about it. It was great.

It was totally worth it though. Like to go have lunch with you. And stone crabs are one of my favorites now.

Randy Lanier: Yeah. Yeah. Stone crabs are delicious.

Mike Carr: You know, here we are. All right, we’re going to make this happen and friends of mine tow the car out on the trailer. I get you at the Columbus airport, and now we’ve got to drive up to mid Ohio.

We get there, we go to the hotel and it’s late October. So it’s dark out there in the morning. And. We get up in the pitch black at like six 37 o’clock in the morning, get to the track. And I have no idea what to expect at all their own track guys are there. And they’re like, you’ve got Randy Lanier.

There’s a driver’s meeting. And I say at the driver’s meeting on Friday, Practice day. I’ve got Randy Lanier here. If anybody would like him to hop in their car, [00:11:00] have at it. But you and I get in the car.

Randy Lanier: Was that the rainy day or was that the race day was rain, Mike?

Mike Carr: The race day was rainy. Like, the practice day was pretty good.

Randy Lanier: Yeah.

Mike Carr: And I don’t remember whether I drove first or you drove first. I might’ve driven first so that you could see how crappy a driver I am and, you know, try to help me. You might have driven first so that I could see whether or not you still knew how to drive. Either way, it doesn’t matter, but we took turns and we’re doing good.

It was really fun. And you started hitting your marks. We get into the weekend and the car and driver guys. Say we want him to, and they get you in their car. And so you’re in my car for hours. And then you’re like, I want lunch. You hop out of my car and they’re like, can you get in our car? And you do. And I’m like, you’re just driving all day.

This is a good time and you’re doing well. I’m doing better because of your help because you say here’s a wall where you need to get really close to [00:12:00] this wall because you’re going to come around to the second to last turn and then the last turn. You want to be positioned properly and it’s slippery over there and I’m feeling really good.

I think maybe this was the second time I’d been there and I felt so much better after we spent some time in the car together and I valued the experience that you gave me. It wasn’t BS. I mean it was real good instruction. I know that you were having a flashback. The garage is there haven’t changed in 35 years.

They’re exactly the same plywood, you know, those overhangs that you can look down into them and you were there with your IMSA car and you rolled in with my, you know, crappy, low budget race car, it seemed like you were having the time of your life. I don’t know. I, I’m guessing that’s the case.

Crew Chief Eric: You find yourself 2015 behind the wheel of that BMW.

And what were you thinking when you strapped in, popped the clutch and took off out the pit exit? Was it all coming back in a flash or?

Randy Lanier: Well, it [00:13:00] didn’t come back in a flash. It took a few laps. The first time I got in the car, we was having a blast, Michael. And I, I gotta tell you, I, I love that track. The camaraderie that we was all sharing with everybody from Road Track Magazine, Jalopnik.

Allow me to drive their BMW and then hopping back into yours. But after the race was over, we ended up at a bar,

Mike Carr: Casey prime, fantastic place.

Randy Lanier: It was an amazing night.

Mike Carr: I rented a karaoke machine and

Randy Lanier: we ended up having the time of our life. It was a crew there. I mean, the bar was packed. It was just such a big celebration.

I’m out with my freedom. Um, We’re doing karaoke with Smuggler’s Blues.

Mike Carr: Thin Lawyer’s Guns and Money. Thin

Randy Lanier: Lawyer’s Guns and Money and just all of us singing and having the big, I mean, it was just a huge party and it’s so much laughter and fun that [00:14:00] we didn’t want it to end.

Crew Chief Eric: What do you think of the cars of today, or especially since you’ve been out compared to when you left and maybe more specifically, the race cars, were you able to keep up when you were on the inside?

Randy Lanier: I watched some races, read a lot of magazines that I could get my hands on. Watching it on TV was difficult. I became a NASCAR fan and I’m not such a NASCAR fan now concerning. The chase point system. I’m not a real big fan of the way that’s structured with the chase system. The cause that I was instructing and has so much track assistance.

If you use those settings, it kind of takes a little bit away from it because of the ability of the car to correct itself is quite amazing. And, but then also if you use that, you can’t really stand on it. Because it doesn’t let you stand on it too much. I’d rather drive without the track assistant, but these cars are completely, they’ve changed so much with all the anti lock [00:15:00] breakings, the track assist and stuff.

With the technology of these cars these days, it’s, it’s got a world of difference.

Crew Chief Eric: So Randy, I got to ask you, because in reading the book, one of the things that remained unclear, I mean, the adventures that transpired in the book are amazing. And as it bounced between what was going on behind the scenes and what was going on track, what I was left wondering was, where did your driving ability and style come from?

Did it come from growing up on the back roads of Southern Virginia? Or did you have coaching over the years? Cause it seemed to me like you just got there and you sent it every time there was a race.

Randy Lanier: No, I didn’t drive in Virginia. I built little push go karts when I was a kid. These are go karts without motors.

We didn’t have the motors. So we just put skates on plywood and push each other around and stuff.

Tom Newman: So, uh, my family’s from a little town called Danville. No Danville. Well, I was born in Lynchburg. Oh, well, there you go. So where I was going with this is growing up as a [00:16:00] kid. Did you ever have an opportunity to visit Virginia international raceway?

Yeah. VR?

Randy Lanier: No, I did visit a track called Summit Raceway.

Tom Newman: Summit Point.

Randy Lanier: Summit Point.

Tom Newman: That’s in my backyard.

Randy Lanier: I went there to drive some Formula Fords.

Tom Newman: But I was just curious growing up in Southwest Virginia like that because for a long time VIR was kind of like the best kept secret in motorsports. You know, Paul Newman called it the paradise on earth and I was just curious if you ever had a chance to to race or if you’d ever be interested in driving that track.

Randy Lanier: I would love to drive that track. I haven’t never driven it. Oh, the only track in Virginia I drove was, uh, Summit Point.

Tom Newman: And Summit Point is actually in West, by God, Virginia.

Randy Lanier: Oh, it’s in West Virginia. Okay. It was

Tom Newman: just barely 1980 when I went to that track. So were you racing with Tom Cruise and Paul Newman at that time?

Randy Lanier: I was just starting out with SCCA racing and Paul Newman was driving in SCCA.

Tom Newman: Very cool.

Randy Lanier: But I think the driving came from early [00:17:00] on. I had gotten a little three, five, six Porsche and did some SCCA events here in Florida. But my biggest thing came back. I went to road Atlanta in 1979 or I met doc Bundy.

And he was a coach at Road Atlanta. I was there for one day and I ended up spending a day with him going around Road Atlanta. Then I went back the next day and spent a day on a skid pad. And the skid pad was really helpful. Learning car control, we would put oil and water on it and just go out and do different.

kind of circles and keeping that wheel on the circles, inside wheel, outside wheel until you can learn to shift gears while you’re doing these three sixties. And so I think that helped along with Doc Bundy, uh, giving me some tips. So basically a lot of seat time.

Crew Chief Eric: So it’s funny, you’re the second person to mention Doc Bundy on the show.

And so I’ve got to ask you this question back when you were [00:18:00] racing, especially in IMSA, there’s lots of folks that were coming up through the ranks, crossing between series like K& M and Trans Am and IMSA and so other, and otherwise in bad sport, they talked about your rivalry between Blue Thunder and Porsche with Derek Bell and all that.

But there’s another Floridian driver that was about the same time you were around. And that’s Lynn St. James. And she also mentioned Doc Bundy on the episode we did with her. So I’m wondering, did you cross paths with Lynn? Did you guys race together back then?

Randy Lanier: We didn’t race together. I, I got to know Lynn.

We was friends in EMSA. She was doing some racing with Ford and stuff. So got to know Lynn and she was quite good. It was amazing how fast she was and just a quality person. So enjoyed her company at the races and her and Debra Greg too was quite fun to chat with.

Crew Chief Eric: So who are some of your rivals outside of Derrick Bell and the Porsche team?

Did you have any?

Randy Lanier: Yeah, I looked at every team as a [00:19:00] potential rival, but with John Paul junior and John Paul senior junior was fast and senior was too, but junior was just smoother and. Just a great, great guy to be around on a racetrack. I trusted him. Of course, Al Holbert was super fast along with Derek Bell, but then we also had Klaus Ludwig, he was like a gunslinger.

He was just fast and anything he got in Klaus Ludwig was just super fast. And Ford did a good thing when they hired him for the probe car. Because, uh, they searched for the best driver they could locate, and they came up with Klaus Lugwig. Bob Wallach was another one. He was super fast, and he was, uh, cantankerous to me sometimes.

We kinda didn’t see eye to eye when I first met him. Driving with, uh, on a BB512 Ferrari at Daytona, he thought I took the car off the course, and I didn’t. The gearbox let go, and I happened to be the one in the car when it let go. But there was a lot of good drivers in IMSA and [00:20:00] one of my favorite cars was the 935.

That car was just such raw horsepower, no car assist like they do with these days. So you really, you just, you drove the shit out of it.

Mike Carr: That car had a reputation of being impossible to control. Yeah,

Randy Lanier: it was badass and that’s one of my favorite cars to drive.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, it’s funny. The people that you’re talking about.

I mean, you’re really talking about the heyday of sports car racing and some of the best names were coming up during that time. We talked about Lynn. You talked about John Paul’s junior and senior and others. And it’s just, I mean, the list goes on.

Randy Lanier: Let’s not leave out, uh, Han Stuck and Hurley Haywood and Willie was just and he’s still out there doing it to this day.

I love the series that he’s in

Crew Chief Eric: another question that comes up as a result of this. And it’s sort of a big question mark in the book too. And it wasn’t really even covered in bad sport is. What happened to Blue Thunder? And for those that don’t know what Blue Thunder is, that’s the March Chevy [00:21:00] GTP car that you guys campaigned back in the days of the prototype IMSA series and whatnot.

Were they sold? Were they seized? Are they in a private collection somewhere in a museum where people can actually see Blue Thunder? Where, where are they now?

Mike Carr: I unfortunately know too much about this. When Randy and I became friends, I tracked these cars down. And I know who owns them. I know whether they’ve been for sale.

They are private. They are in existence. What were the numbers? 56 and 57. Yep. They may be available. If anybody wants to get in touch with me, I will happily take a finder’s fee. I suggested to Randy that we should try to somehow mount an effort to get them. But there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and they are out there.

Randy Lanier: So to answer your question, the cars got seized along with the IndyCars that I had. They had seized a warehouse where I had a collection of my cars here in Fort Lauderdale. [00:22:00] The cars got auctioned off. U. S. Marshals or the FBI auctioned off the cars and private owners ended up buying them for little of nothing.

Crew Chief Eric: And all the spare parts, right? I love that part in the book where you’re like, I didn’t just buy, I bought 10 of everything.

Randy Lanier: Yeah, I’d buy 10 motors and hundreds of thousands of gears and whatever body parts we need, we had extras. But all that stuff got seized in a seizure of a warehouse that I had all my car collection in.

Mike Carr: There’s a rumor out there that Randy used to fly weed into Road Atlanta. And Randy, you tell the story, but from what I understand, that never happened. I don’t think you ever used airplanes, but he did fly motors and cars into the backstretch at Road Atlanta, if I remember correctly.

Randy Lanier: The road Atlanta was it.

There’s a lot of rumors that Bill and Don and I used to do plane loads and stuff, but I know nothing about that as far as that I did buy the track from Bill in [00:23:00] 1985. He was being under investigation and we knew he was getting indicted. And Bill and Dawn Whittington owned the track at the time. And we found a way for them to get up underneath the track.

So they didn’t get seized. And I kind of became a silent partner with a couple of other gentlemen who was my front people involved to track and ended up losing that once I got a life sentence, the track kind of went another way. That’s now by NASCAR, right? Now it’s owned by NASCAR. The only good thing that come out of that deal was my brother was a manager for about 30 years to all the owners that went through the track.

Even for NASCAR, he worked for there until he passed away a few years ago with cancer.

Crew Chief Eric: And it’s funny you guys bring up Road Atlanta because for me, it didn’t sort of all come together until last year when I was at the Petit Le Mans. And I’ve been to Road Atlanta before. It was because I parked At linear raceway and walked over to the [00:24:00] track.

And I was like, that’s can’t be a coincidence, right?

Mike Carr: It actually, I think it is it’s linear County or something.

Randy Lanier: No, I don’t have nothing to do with the track next door. I always thought, well, I’d buy that property. When I bought road Atlanta, it was 750 acres. I purchased along with the race track. And I always wanted to get the land next door too, but didn’t get around to doing it, ended up going to prison before.

Crew Chief Eric: So Randy, I’m curious, where were you working? What were you doing when you got out?

Randy Lanier: So when I got out, my good friend, Preston Hinn, who’s a, another race car driver who had quite success in the IMSA series, Daytona and a lot of races that they won with AJ Ford, Bob Wallach, that was some of his drivers, you know.

Uh, nine 35s and nine 62s. He gave me an opportunity. He owns what they call the swap shop here in Fort Lauderdale. And it’s a big flea market with a huge mall in the middle of [00:25:00] this 88 acre property. So when I first got out, I went there and I was helping with the tickets for parking. Did that for several months until he made me a manager and worked there for about a year.

And then after that, I became an Uber driver and drove Uber for close to two years. That had to be exciting.

Mike Carr: I always thought these Uber passengers have no idea who’s driving them around.

Randy Lanier: With the Uber driving done, then I started getting some opportunities to instruct with a company here called PDG Performance Driving Group in a Corvette school.

So I started driving Corvettes and instructing. Private lessons and instructions, uh, at Homestead, Daytona, and Seabury. Instructed for PDG for a couple of years and did a couple of SCCA races here in Florida and a Mazda RX7, four races with that. After a couple of years of that, [00:26:00] I got a job in a substance abuse treatment center, teaching instructions of how to meditate and do yoga.

And it’s amazing how. Things can come about with what we put out there. We get back. I got a job teaching meditation at sunrise on the beach. Amazing that I got this job getting paid to watch the sunrise come up teaching a lot of Afghanistan veterans. How to meditate and do yoga. These are people that are coming back from the Afghanistan war.

And I had been to Iraq previously and was dealing with some social issues with substance abuse. And so it was like a great time for me because mentoring a lot of these men that had went through a lot of. hardships and struggles into Afghanistan and Iraq. I found myself at the beach being a mentor to these men and women.

And that helped me a lot to coming out from 27 years of maximum security [00:27:00] penitentiary. I did that for close to five years.

Tom Newman: Something that I’ve been interested in and you know, following you on instagram and that sort of thing is where did you learn how to paint?

Randy Lanier: In the joint, I picked up the paintbrush.

I was a big runner running about 50 to 75 miles every week, and I ended up losing all my cartilage in my right hip. And it took me about seven years to get a hip replacement. And it got to a point to where I could only walk about five or ten minutes and I couldn’t walk any further. I had to stop. So I decided to go to the art room and take up oil painting.

That way I could just get a seat with a canvas in front of me and I wouldn’t have to walk. I could just sit down and paint. So I went to the art room and started painting and picked it up in the joint, just self taught in the art room in, uh, Coleman, Florida. Now I’m, I love art. It was, uh, you know, and I use that as an example.

[00:28:00] No matter the struggles, hardships, no matter what it is in, there’s something positive that you can get out of it. And 27 years in maximum security prisons really developed me a lot of understanding about compassion because my last nine years, I Was a suicide volunteer for people who tried to commit suicide and I would sit with them for four hours a day

Mike Carr: when I read the book, the thing that struck me the most and I texted you about this was how hard that had to have been to sit with those guys and how much prison staff was grateful that somebody with experience.

And being in the joint, how valuable that was for them to have you there. And it moved me beyond words, tears. I mean, you tell a harrowing story that I’m not going to get into that had to have been one of the hardest things that you’ve ever done, and you’re doing it in a place where you’re resentful that you’re there.

But you’re [00:29:00] making the most of it.

Tom Newman: Is that a work behind you that you did, or is that someone else? No, this

Randy Lanier: isn’t something that I done behind me. Um, that is a piece of artwork from Eugene Gerwin, which is a Russian immigrant. That piece right there, I purchased in 1984. It’s a piece with a tugboat. You can’t see it, but there’s a tugboat going underneath the Golden Gate Bridge.

The year I bought this painting, I had just brought a large load into San Francisco underneath the Golden Gate Bridge with a tugboat.

I found that painting in an art gallery in Carmel, California.

Tom Newman: I love the stuff that you do, that’s for sure.

Crew Chief Eric: So another sort of where are they now question, in Bad Sport, several scenes where they interview Pam, she’s quoted as saying, he asked me to marry him but I’m still thinking about it. So what about the relationship between you and him?

So

Randy Lanier: we just got married last November on the beach. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: congratulations. [00:30:00]

Randy Lanier: Yeah, so we’re coming up on our one year anniversary. Very nice. Last November 7th we got married on Fort Lauderdale Beach.

Crew Chief Eric: The kids, Brandy and your son, do they race? Are they at all interested in cars?

Randy Lanier: No, my daughter lives in Colorado.

She just got married last year. She married a cultivator, operational manager of a cultivation in Colorado. The company has one dispensary. It’s in Aspen, Colorado. They just recently bought some property up near Telluride. My son here lives in Fort Lauderdale and he doesn’t race, but here’s the crazy part.

Right before I was getting indicted, Pam was pregnant with twins. And we lost one of the twins premature death. And my son was born without his brother, but I come out in 2014 and his girlfriend gets pregnant right after I come out of prison and she has twins. So now I’m a grandpa of two twin. They’ll be seven year [00:31:00] old, October the 13th.

I come out in October the 15th of 2014. And these boys are born October of 2015. Pretty amazing. Now that day I will put in go karts. Absolutely.

Mike Carr: Randy, when they went to your parents houses and they said, what do you have here that was Randy’s? And your mom’s like, no, just this old grandfather’s car. Then they open it and it’s full of money.

Do I get that right?

Randy Lanier: Well, it was my aunt. They went to my aunt’s house in Virginia, and they said they were investigating me, their nephew, if I left any money or anything over there in storage. And they said, well, the only thing he brought over here was some antiques in the garage. So they said, why don’t we look at them?

So they go in there and They started looking in the antique furniture, the couches, the clocks and stuff and started finding money that my dad had hidden for me in the [00:32:00] antiques.

Mike Carr: And the story of your parents and your family members getting in trouble is the most poignant thing. You didn’t ever intend to hurt anybody else.

Crew Chief Eric: So they also show you reuniting with Charles Podesta. Do you still hang out with him or any of the old crew? What about Alan? Alan was here at the house yesterday.

Randy Lanier: We had dinner. He was supposed to make it over for the football game, but we had dinner last night. So I, I still see Alan regularly. He’s my buddy from my childhood.

We go way back. We’re still friends. Chuck, I don’t see him. I’ve texted and emailed him, but we had dinner after I’d gotten out of prison. And that was right along the time I was making a Netflix show.

Mike Carr: Alan came to mid Ohio. Back when I put Randy behind the wheel and a couple other good old friends.

Randy Lanier: I forgot.

Yeah.

Mike Carr: And it was so great to meet him. And then it’s been so great to see him in the Netflix show and to be friends with him on Facebook. And he is a character, every bit of what you see on that [00:33:00] Netflix show, where he defies convention and defies Randy’s peace, love, let’s all get along kind of message. Is Alan and Alan is just the greatest, very, very funny.

When I see this stuff, I wish that I’d been there. Like, I don’t want to get in trouble with these guys back in the eighties, but I wish that I’d been there and I wish that I knew them. The fact that marijuana became legal makes this all seem so ridiculous. The work that they had to put into supplying a plant to people who wanted to plant.

I get it. It’s more profitable if it’s against the law, but the people who did it were colorful and they weren’t violent and guys like Alan just restore your faith in humanity like he and a big giant Doberman guarding a safe house seems like one of the more interesting things that you could possibly like.

Randy Lanier: It’s quite [00:34:00] amazing that the war on drugs is still going on. We still have tens of thousands of people incarcerated for this plant. What’s amazing is I was involved three years before I got out, I got involved with a nonprofit organization called Freedom Grow. And they was helping support me and giving me letters of encouragement and hope that, you know, maybe I will get out.

Having people in your corner means a lot to you when you’re incarcerated. Now I find myself as vice president of this non profit and we help all the non violent prisoners of cannabis prisoners and do a lot of things with them. Freedom Grows sends them commissary funding. We send them birthday gifts every birthday with their mothers or their fathers.

And we do books and magazine subscriptions. So it’s a wonderful thing to be able to give back to the people that are still incarcerated. Since then, I’ve Been able to release a documentary show called Need for Weed on bad [00:35:00] sports. Dropped a book on August the 2nd called Survival of the Fastest, which by the way, I, I just sold for a full feature film.

So was blessed. Right. Yeah. That’s just like amazing how Things come about. So ink that deal a few months ago. So the book will become a full feature film. So tell me something though,

Crew Chief Eric: in the casting, is it going to be one of the Wahlbergs? Because I tell you what, looking at that photo of you from back in the day on the cover of the book, I could see Marky Mark playing you in the movie.

What do we think?

Randy Lanier: Yeah, we haven’t got that far. We just, the studio just hired a screenplay writer. Pretty big deal with that because they did that within about four months of doing the negotiations. We’re on board with that. We’re getting the screenplay written right now, but something that really is bigger than that is last March, March 28th, to be exact, the state of New Jersey awarded me a cultivation license to grow marijuana.

And it’s [00:36:00] huge. It’s a cultivation license that allows me to cultivate 75, 000 square feet of canopy. If I realized my full footprint, about 40, 000 pounds a year.

Mike Carr: And this is something that they refer to as reciprocative justice. Someone who did too much time for a plant deserves a shot at one of these licenses.

Randy Lanier: They awarded me what’s called a social equity. Cultivation license. They award that to people that’s been impacted by the war on drugs. I happened to fit that criteria. I applied for the license about a year and a half ago and received it in March. And I’m in the process now of trying to bring on investors and with all that, the complexities that that requires, it’s a huge lift for me because To do this is super expensive.

Crew Chief Eric: So since you’re building this farm, cultivating license, all this kind of stuff, are you going to [00:37:00] grow Punta Roja? Your number one, your favorite as it’s outlined in the book?

Randy Lanier: Yes, I will bring us several strains to the market. That’s going to be pretty unique. I already been talking about the strains that we’re going to bring and

Mike Carr: it’s not going to be hard to market.

Randy Lanier: It’s so amazing that the government locks you up. And I spent 27 years in maximum security penitentiaries. And then they come out, they say, well, we’re sorry, but here’s a license.

You can grow it now. You want it’s bizarre.

Mike Carr: This is the easiest marketing campaign that you could possibly ever envision. The guy who brought, well, what he was convicted of bringing in 300, 000 pounds of Colombian weed can market. Whatever he’s growing with the stamp of authority. It’s like the Queens weed.

Randy Lanier: And

Tom Newman: there better be a race car on the logo.

Randy Lanier: I’m bringing a strain called octane [00:38:00] cannabis.

Crew Chief Eric: Better be a blue thunder in there too,

Randy Lanier: right? I got a blue thunder. I’m trying to unveil blue thunder in Las Vegas at the MJ biz. This November, a brand called blue thunder. I’m getting it done. I just got a resolution passed in the town of Eatontown, New Jersey.

And that’s huge right there to have a resolution passed to be the one of two cultivators in this township.

Mike Carr: And this is kind of local to my area. So I’m doing whatever I can to help Randy. Find the realtors, the professionals and the lawyers and the folks who he needs up this way to get this done.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s something else that I wondered about. You said you lost Road Atlanta when you got put away. The cars got taken away, sold at auction, just your whole life sort of just disappeared, melted away into the darkness. You see it more now than maybe years ago, but a lot of sports. Organizations and sanctioning bodies.

When something like this happens, people are stripped of their [00:39:00] titles. Do your records, do your wins and your championships still stand or were they taken away from you as well?

Randy Lanier: Oh, they still stand. Um, I would just recently went last my first Indianapolis 500. I went back to a legends day. It was such a blast.

Got to sign all day autographs on Legends Day. They still have the Rookie of the Year trophy in the museum. So all the records still stands and we didn’t have nothing to do other than

Crew Chief Eric: financing

Randy Lanier: the race cars.

Crew Chief Eric: We talked about 2015 timeframe, getting back behind the wheel of a car, doing some work for some driving organizations and coaching here.

You are seven years later, 68 years old. Are you still racing, planning to race? Are you still behind the wheel of a car?

Randy Lanier: I haven’t been racing COVID kind of put a, I was instructing regularly getting booked quite COVID came about in 2020 that kind of put a damper on the racetracks here. They close that down there, they’re back open.

But I [00:40:00] did just get invited to road and track magazine. Just invited me to a rally in the Hudson Valley. It’s a three day event with 25 invited cars. And we drive from upstate New York to Lomrock, Connecticut, where we’ll do hot laps on October the 18th, 19th and

Mike Carr: 20th. I have no affiliation with this event, but it is a very, very fancy, beautiful event with great hotels and great rides.

Yeah,

Mike Carr: a great conclusion at Lime Rock. And I do have an affiliation with Extreme Experience, which does similar sort of stuff, driving supercars on public roads, which must be the most frustrating experience in the world, unless you’re okay with getting arrested and paying fines and being very rich. And the road and track event sounds like a fantastic event.

Randy Lanier: Yeah, I’m looking forward to it.

Crew Chief Eric: What if things had turned out differently and you’d ended up winning the 500? What was your plan? What were you going to do next?

Randy Lanier: [00:41:00] My whole deal that I wanted to do was win the Indianapolis 500. I went there, was rookie of the year, finished 10th. And then on my following next oval, I just knew.

That I was going back to win Indy 500. I was at Michigan 500. I cut a tire and ended up hitting the wall. And that kind of ended the deal for me because I got indicted several months later.

Mike Carr: That where you broke your leg?

Randy Lanier: Yeah. That’s where I had a compound fracture to the right femur bone. Mario had crashed and I picked up some debris from his crash.

Had I won the Indy 500 later on, I would probably went back to get a second win.

Crew Chief Eric: So I have a feeling that you would have kept at it until you won it sort of deal. You know, a lot of us, we have those goals and then when we reach the goal, you’re standing at the summit of the mountain and you go, well, now what do I do?

Right. Do you go for a formula one? Do you go into touring car? I guess maybe you weren’t thinking that far ahead, right?

Randy Lanier: I had my eyes set on Pikes Peak. I had already started [00:42:00] doing some planning for Pikes Peak. Didn’t get to fulfill that. Got cut short with that. So my career in racing was really short. I accomplished everything I did in a short time, but there was some Pikes Peak that I did want to do and wanted to race Indy.

Crew Chief Eric: Of all the tracks that you ran during your seasons, were there some that you loved and some that you hated?

Randy Lanier: There was none that I hated, but there was some tracks that I liked a little bit more than others really loved Laguna Seca was good at Laguna Seca. Love Watkins Glen, a fast track when I was driving there, they had just reopened it from being shut down in 1984.

I won that seat in the last race of the year. There was no slow turns at Watkins Glen. To me, it was like, wow, this track is balls out because there’s really no slow turns.

Mike Carr: And that’s where I saw him. That’s where I came to know who Randy Lanier was. 1984 at Watkins Glen.

Crew Chief Eric: Love that track. So [00:43:00] bucket list events or tracks that you’d still like to drive or go to?

Randy Lanier: Any track. You know, I still love going to watching races. I go to Sebring and Daytona. Occasionally make it down to Homestead. There’s a new track in New Jersey that I haven’t been to. I’d like to go drive. I’ve heard about, and I think there’s one in Kentucky that I’m hearing good things about.

Crew Chief Eric: NCM.

National Corvette Museum.

Mike Carr: Yeah. It’s a lot of work to do this stuff and to do it on a budget. I don’t wish that I was selling 15 million worth of weed a year to do this. But on the other hand, I kind of wish I was because 15 million worth of weed would buy me a lot of track time.

Randy Lanier: Yeah. Unlimited.

Mike Carr: I think that it would be fun to hear Randy’s story all the way to the bottom and I read the book. Randy has been [00:44:00] incredibly open with stories when you’re sitting at the bar after the race. You know, he did his time. He deserves to be able to tell his story without fear of anything else coming back to haunt him.

And the stories are unbelievable.

Randy Lanier: Mike, and I really sincere when I tell you in any struggles or hardships that we all go through, if you really look for it, you’ll find some positivity, some positive. Stuff in it. And that comes about with my mother used to tell me that greatest form of knowledge is empathy.

And I come to understand that now. I didn’t understand that when I was growing up, but I understand it now. And the lowest form of knowledge is opinions.

Everybody’s got an opinion. You don’t have to have a back to back it up.

Tom Newman: They got at least two, like they got two elbows.

Crew Chief Eric: I know that the cars have changed in 30 plus years, you know, from when you were [00:45:00] racing to now, but the advice you could give aspiring drivers, you know, people that are coming up through the ranks that are in SCCA and NASA and other organizations that want to go pro. What are some of the lessons you learned on that part of your journey that you could pass on to them and say, Hey, this is what you gotta do.

Randy Lanier: Do all the hand eye coordinations you can do. I used to play racquetball a lot. That was my sport. I loved it so much that I built a racquetball court at my house in Colorado. If you want to become a really good race car driver, you live, eat, sleep, drink, talk, and love it every day because then you become that.

Tom Newman: And from my perspective, there’s kind of a parallel the brutality that goes along with with motor sports, right? You know, the violence that takes place in the car, the pressures that your body undergoes. And a lot of people who haven’t done that just don’t undergoes. In of itself, it’s an art, and I imagine when you sit in [00:46:00] front of a canvas and you have a plan, much like you have a plan in your head about how you’re going to attack this next corner, or make a pass, whatever the case may be, it’s kind of a similar thought process in terms of how do I make this brutality into art, or how do I make this blank slate into some form of art.

Randy Lanier: You know, how it’s like art, too, is Developing the skills to really put your focus on the task at hand really means a lot because the higher the focus you can take, the higher concentration you can have, the better off you are with your lap times. So you see the people that are constantly running up front are constantly qualifying good.

They have. His skills to concentrate at a high level with the art, no matter where you are, if you’re really focusing and concentrating on the art on what you’re putting on the canvas, you can be anywhere in a prison cell or south of France at the moment, you’re [00:47:00] in this canvas, and it’s an amazing thing that it can take you away from.

All other things.

Mike Carr: That sort of leads me to an overarching thought that I’ve had ever since I met you seven years ago, whatever it was. You’ve got this massive drug dealing operation and you’ve got this massive racing operation. Reading the book gave me insight. I don’t have the ability to fathom how you’ve got millions of dollars worth of drugs out there on the sea or on the land and people who are moving it for you.

And whether you trust people and whether you know people well enough to understand that they’re not going to sell you out. And now you’ve got this race in front of you, and you’re going to go drive, and your focus has to be on this, and then as soon as you’re done, it has to be on that. And I have the most immense amount of respect.

It seems like [00:48:00] it would require someone to, being on the spectrum, you know, in order to divert the two. I don’t know how you did it, and I would love to understand.

Crew Chief Eric: He’s like a drummer. He just splits his brain, right? He’s doing. Yeah,

Randy Lanier: it boils down to where we put our energy and where we put our attention, our energy follows.

It’s so if you really develop the skills and I say skills of driving race cars to me, but he says, Oh, you got talent and stuff. But look, You’ve got to develop it. You’ve got to sit there, get your seat time, but it also having the capability and the capacity to really focus, really concentrate. Meditation is an awesome thing.

It is an amazing tool that we have. And we all have many gifts within us. When I say that, I say it sincerely. We have gifts that is amazing. Just for example, we all have the gift to be able to be the observer of our own thoughts. But a lot of times we can [00:49:00] go through our day and never once step back and be the observer of what it is that we are thinking or feeling.

We’re on autopilot. It’s really easy to be on autopilot when you’re working 8 to 4, 8 to 5 or whatever you’re doing. So going through your day, And developing the skills to live a mindful life to really be aware, take a few moments several times during the day and step back and be the observer, be the witness of what it is you’re thinking what you’re feeling, because that will help you develop the skills of mindfulness so when you’re in a car.

And you’re really battling it out and figuring out how to get around someone or the place to make a pass. You’ll do it with ease and not so much forcing it to happen. So art does that, really focusing on what it is that you want to develop this piece into.

Tom Newman: I feel like I need to take up painting to make my driving better now.[00:50:00]

Mike Carr: When I became friends with Randy and offered him this drive, I didn’t know what I was going to get out of it. I didn’t really have a whole lot of motivation to get anything out of it. I just said, all right, you know, guy seems like he needs to get behind the wheel. Yay. The stuff that he’s talking about has educated me so much.

Like I’m so grateful for his experience. That sort of mindfulness has sunk in and I’m. Looking at the source and I’m looking at his experience. I read his book, you know, but we spent hours talking and I’m so grateful for all that. It’s just been a wonderful relationship.

Randy Lanier: And Mike, I want to tell you, I’m so glad that you mentioned gratitude, gratefulness, because I want to tell you, and this is for real, living a life of gratitude is an amazing thing because you get away from living a life of lacking, and it brings about abundance in [00:51:00] all areas.

It’s amazing what the gratitude, what you just mentioned, does for you. Because it does away with sense of lacking and it brings about abundance. So thank you.

Tom Newman: Poignant stuff. And you know, the parallels sounds as much like a recipe for becoming a a world class driver as much as it is a recipe for a life well lived.

The parallels that I see. Particularly at the amateur levels, you’re talking about gratitude. I can’t tell you the number of times that fellow competitors cars have broken, or they’ve had an issue or something like that, where another team has jumped in to get them back on track. And I think that’s something that really makes the racing community very special.

For someone like yourself, who’s competed at the highest levels to give back, I’m very grateful for your sharing your stories and your wisdom.

Randy Lanier: Oh, thank you. I enjoyed it.

Mike Carr: The stories are fucking awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: Tell us how

Tom Newman: you really feel. [00:52:00]

Crew Chief Eric: So what’s next in the Mike and Randy chapter of the book, where are you guys off to next?

What’s your next big race together? We’re getting

Mike Carr: old. I have cataract surgery coming up when I can see, I’ll let you know.

Tom Newman: That’s a handy bit of information to have. Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: no, but it’s, it’s actually great because you guys are sitting here talking again as friends, you develop this relationship over almost a decade now, and you can see that you guys have been doing other stuff behind the scenes and not just all about race cars and whatnot.

Even though as Randy said, we need to eat, sleep, drink, breathe race cars all the time, if that’s what we’re into, but it’s good to see this friendship has blossomed out of something as simple as that. Original letter that you sent Randy. So that’s that’s pretty amazing. Well,

Mike Carr: we we went through some stuff I’ll let Randy decide whether or not to tell you but life throws stuff at you all the time and When he was early out of prison and I was down there visiting him And it was a different time.

[00:53:00] It was a different life. A lot of stuff has passed over the dam he and I have Maintain this wonderful relationship where we talk, I don’t know what once a week, once every couple of weeks, and we’re trying to do some business with the marijuana business up here. And I’m glad that he looks to me as a trusted resource.

I think that it’s wonderful to watch this movie and the book and the Netflix show, like all take off. I just couldn’t be happier.

Crew Chief Eric: Randy and Mike, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t covered thus far.

Randy Lanier: Mike, I’m coming up to the New Jersey on the 12th. I’m a speaker at the Edison, New Jersey convention center.

It’s a investor cannabis. convention. Try to make a point to hook up with you.

Mike Carr: Good. Well, I can’t end without just saying Rally Baby for Life, the race team that brought him back on track, not selling anything.

Randy Lanier: Right on. I have a [00:54:00] non profit called freedomgrow. org. We support cannabis prisoners, non violent.

We have 178 of them. If you haven’t heard of us, check us out freedom, go. org. None of us take a salary. We do it all through volunteer efforts on our own time. And we support these nonviolent cannabis prisoners and their families. We do holiday gifting. I’ll give you an example. Last holiday was Easter that we had to funds.

We do it all through donations. We made up 126 Easter baskets and we put little water bottles. That’s it. These are for the children, the 188 cannabis prisoners had 126 children. So we made 126 Easter baskets and we put little water bottles that said, you are strong, you are brave, and you are smart. We put little Rubik’s cubes.

We put activity books. We put all the candy and the Easter bunnies and the chocolates, and we send them to the 126 children. We do that all through donations. So please check us [00:55:00] out, freedomgrow. org.

Crew Chief Eric: After 27 years of being in prison, Randy Lemire returned to the world of motorsports and weed. And after that fateful weekend in 2015, Mike Carr got in touch with Randy to let him know that he had edited Randy’s Wikipedia page.

Now there’s no longer the word Before race car driver and to quote Randy, that feels really good. To learn more about Randy and his story, be sure to check out the August 22 release of the bestselling book, survival of the Fastest Available on Amazon, in print and on Audible. And if you don’t have time to read.

Then watch the Netflix documentary series, Bad Sport, specifically episode two entitled The Need for Weed, which brings you up to speed on Randy’s story in his own words. And if you want to follow Randy, be sure to check out www. freedomgrow. org or follow him on social at Randy Lanier 27 on Instagram and at Randy Lanier on Facebook and LinkedIn.

And in the [00:56:00] spirit of gratitude, I sincerely say I can’t thank you enough for coming on our show and talking about what’s happened over the last seven, almost eight years that you’ve been out, all the things that have transpired and relating information back to drivers as to, you know, where we can take ourselves next.

Randy Lanier: Thank you. It’s been a good ride here with you guys and I appreciate you. Very grateful for having me on your show.

Mike Carr: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Randy Lanier: This was

Mike Carr: really fun.

Randy Lanier: Yeah.

Tom Newman: Thanks for including me here.

Randy Lanier: Thank you. It was enjoyable. Michael, always a pleasure.

Tom Newman: Indeed.

Randy Lanier: And Tom, nice to meet you.

Tom Newman: Nice to meet you too, Randy.

And hopefully you’ll drive one of my cars one day.

Randy Lanier: Right on. I’m like, hit me up.

Mike Carr: Soft pedal that offer his cars have horsepower. Unlike mine, his Mustang had 550 horsepower and it was so much fun to just drive around people.

Randy Lanier: Oh,

Tom Newman: damn man. I, the car I’m building now is a 1992 Corvette. Oh,

Randy Lanier: nice, [00:57:00] sweet. Sweet.

Tom Newman: It’ll be a good time. I should have that ready for the first part of the year next year.

Randy Lanier: Well, hit me up if you haven’t got a seat available.

Tom Newman: Oh, that’s hammered and stone now.

Crew Chief Eric: I think there’s always a seat available for Randy. You’re just going to kiss somebody else. All right, guys.

Randy Lanier: Thanks, Randy.

Mike Carr: Thank you all.

Thank you so much. This was fun.

Randy Lanier: Thank you, Mike.

Mike Carr: All right. Take care.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that [00:58:00] GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motor sports, and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

None of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 A Mysterious Email from Mike Carr
  • 01:07 Welcoming Mike Carr and Randy Lanier
  • 02:13 Mike Carr’s Background and Connection to Racing
  • 04:25 Randy Lanier’s Racing Comeback
  • 07:00 Challenges and Triumphs at Mid-Ohio
  • 14:12 Randy Lanier’s Life After Prison
  • 18:51 Randy’s Racing Rivals and Blue Thunder
  • 24:27 Life Lessons and New Beginnings
  • 29:17 A Tugboat and a Painting
  • 29:43 Marriage and Family Updates
  • 30:36 Unexpected Twists of Fate
  • 31:17 Hidden Money and Family Troubles
  • 32:09 Reuniting with Old Friends
  • 33:25 The Legalization of Marijuana
  • 34:08 Freedom Grow and Giving Back
  • 35:45 From Prison to Cultivation License
  • 38:39 Racing Dreams and Challenges
  • 44:55 Mindfulness and Racing
  • 50:40 Gratitude and Future Plans
  • 52:01 Final Thoughts and Farewells

Bonus Content

More to this story… check out the BTS on Patreon!

Mike Carr & Randy Lanier on Break/Fix Podcast
Photo courtesy Mike Carr

Learn More

BAD SPORT – Netflix

True crime and sports intersect in a docuseries that examines global controversies and scandals with firsthand accounts from those involved.

Photo courtesy Randy Lanier; Netflix

Six stories at the intersection of sports and crime, as told by the athletes, coaches and law enforcement officials at the center of the controversies. Check out EPISODE #2 of BAD SPORT called “The Need for Weed” and hear Randy’s story in his own words.

Racer/Weed Dealer Randy Lanier Recounts His Wild Ride in ‘Survival of the Fastest’

Photo courtesy Randy Lanier

“To really be an up-front runner in racing, it takes not only a team, but a team with quite a bit of funds,” Lanier told Car and Driver on the occasion of the publication of his new memoir Survival of the Fastest: Weed, Speed, and the 1980s Drug Scandal That Shocked the Sports World, which he wrote with automotive journalist and author A.J. Baime (Go Like HellThe Arsenal of Democracy).

If you want to follow Randy, be sure to check out www.freedomgrow.org and follow him on social @randylanier27 on Instagram and @randylanier on FB and LinkedIn.

Lanier’s return to the track was electric. “It took a few laps,” he admitted, “but it came back.” He drove Carr’s BMW, then jumped into a Road & Track car, spending hours behind the wheel. “You were hitting your marks,” Carr said. “And helping me hit mine.”

After the race, the crew celebrated at KC’s Prime with karaoke and stone crabs. “We sang ‘Smuggler’s Blues’ and ‘Lawyers, Guns and Money,’” Lanier laughed. “It was a party we didn’t want to end.”

Where Are They Now?

Lanier’s post-prison life has been rich with reinvention. He worked at the Swap Shop in Fort Lauderdale, drove Uber, instructed at track days, and taught yoga and meditation to veterans. “I got paid to watch the sunrise,” he said. “Mentoring those men helped me heal.”

Photo courtesy Randy Lanier

He also became a painter. “I lost cartilage in my hip and couldn’t walk. So I picked up a brush in the prison art room. Now I love it.”

And yes – he married Pam, the woman featured in Bad Sport. “We tied the knot last November on the beach,” Lanier beamed.

Meanwhile, Carr tracked down the legendary March Chevy GTP cars – Blue Thunder. “They were seized and auctioned off. But they’re out there, in private hands. If anyone’s interested, I’ll take a finder’s fee.”

FREEDOM GROW is an all-volunteer non-profit 501c3 organization.  We help cannabis prisoners regain freedom while we support their sacrifices through “The Wish Program.” The Wish Program helps prisoners with commissary money, books, magazines, family outreach, and public education.

Legacy and Lessons

Lanier’s story isn’t just about racing. It’s about resilience, friendship, and second chances. “No matter the struggle,” he said, “there’s something positive you can get out of it.”

Photo courtesy Randy Lanier; Freedom Grow

From a letter in a halfway house to a rainy weekend at Mid-Ohio, Randy Lanier’s comeback is proof that the road to redemption can still lead to the winner’s circle.

Other Recommended Reads

Reading List

Don't miss out on great book like this one, or other titles we've read and covered as part of the GTM Bookclub on Break/Fix Podcast.
My Travels On Racer Road: Can-Am and Formula 1 in their golden age
DeLorean: The Rise, Fall and Second Acts of the DeLorean Motor Company
A French Kiss with Death
Driving to the Future: Living life following Formula One racing
Tales From the Garage
Geared for Life: Making the Shift Into Your Full Potential
Ultimate Garages
Fenders, Fins & Friends: Confessions of a Car Guy
Racing While Black: How an African-American Stock Car Team Made Its Mark on NASCAR
The Last Lap: The Mysterious Demise of Pete Kreis at The Indianapolis 500
James Dean: On The Road To Salinas
Performance Thinking: Mental Skills for the Competitive World...and for Life!
The Other Side of the Fence: Six Decades of Motorsport Photography
Racing with Rich Energy
Little Anton: A Historical Novel Complete Series
Lone Rider: The First British Woman to Motorcycle Around the World
Iacocca: An Autobiography
Colin Chapman: The Man and His Cars: The Authorized Biography by Gerard Crombac
Paved Paradise: How Parking Explains the World
Shipwrecked and Rescued: Cars and Crew: The


Gran Touring Motorsports's favorite books »

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Gran Touring's book recommendations, liked quotes, book clubs, book lists (read shelf)

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Norman Garrett: The Man Behind the Miata and the Soul of Sports Car Engineering

What do you get when you mix Southern charm, a childhood obsession with dismantling everything in sight, and a career that spans Mazda, Subaru, and Volvo? You get Norman H. Garrett III – the concept engineer behind the original Mazda Miata and a living archive of automotive evolution.

Photo courtesy Norman Garrett

In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, Norman takes us on a ride through his origin story, his engineering philosophy, and the cultural forces that shaped one of the most beloved sports cars of all time.

Norman’s journey began in Greensboro, North Carolina, where he was the kind of kid who read every label in the pantry and memorized every car book in the library. By age six, he was driving a WWII Jeep around his grandfather’s farm. By 15, he was autocrossing a Datsun 510 with a Peter Brock BRE suspension – illegally, of course.

His garage history reads like a collector’s fever dream: Triumph Spitfires, TR3s, TR4s, Europas, Jaguar XKs, 914s, and 911s. “I’ve tried to have more cars than my age,” he jokes. “I’ve had 73 cars and probably 40 motorcycles.”

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

After graduating from Georgia Tech, Norman turned down Detroit’s cubicle life (“I didn’t want to be the right rear door Cadillac ashtray engineer”) and instead designed artificial heart valves in California. But his office window overlooked the Mazda design studio, and fate eventually pulled him across the street.

At Mazda, Norman became the studio engineer tasked with turning a clay model into a real car. “We wanted it to look five years old when it came out,” he says. “Classic proportions, low beltline, double wishbone suspension—it had to be raceable, tunable, and soulful.”

Spotlight

Notes

The podcast episode explores the fascinating journey of Norman H. Garrett III, an accomplished automotive engineer primarily known for his pivotal role in developing the Mazda Miata. The conversation delves into Garrett’s early passion for cars, his experiences growing up surrounded by various automotive influences, and his academic journey at Georgia Tech. Garrett details his professional career, highlighting key roles at Mazda, Subaru, and other major companies. The episode particularly focuses on the development of the Miata, including its design philosophy, engineering innovations, and the challenges faced during its creation. Garrett also discusses topics like engine tuning, the future of internal combustion engines, and his perspective on the transition towards electric and hybrid vehicles.

  • Origin Story – Who/What/Where/When got you into cars? Was it a childhood passion? Came from a racing family?
  • What led you to automotive engineering? (and to Mazda) + Miata development
  • Sports cars of the past
  • General restoration of old cars discussion
  • Engine tuning for power and performance….
  • The ridiculousness of autonomous driving and EVs
  • Hydrogen as the best fuel ever

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: If you’re a fan of the Mazda Miata’s amazing balance and handling characteristics, then tonight’s break fix guest is 100 percent to blame. He is best known as the concept engineer for the original Miata, and he developed the original suspension as well as the packaging layout, achieving the group’s goal of the ultimate lightweight sports car.

Norman H. Garrett III is an accomplished automotive engineer, having worked for major companies such as Mazda, Subaru, and Volvo. His corporate experiences span the global [00:01:00] automotive development arena, with notable success in specific markets related to energy, emissions, and materials. He has supported Georgia Tech, as well as Oak Ridge National Lab, and if that wasn’t enough, you might recognize him from some of his most recent articles on Hagerty, like, A Few Things You Should Know Before You Steal My 914, and Right Seat Confessions of an On Track Driving Instructor.

And with that, we’d like to welcome Norman to BrakeFix to share some of his stories. So welcome.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Good evening, Eric. Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Crew Chief Eric: Your petrolheadness, if that’s a word, it goes way, way back. So why don’t we rewind the clock and talk about your origin story? The who, the what, the where, and the when that got you into cars.

Was this a childhood passion? Did you come from a racing family? What led you to become an automotive engineer?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Uh, I’d have to say the good Lord just kind of put the gene in me, motor oil in the blood and all that. My father was a physician. My grandfather who lived near us was a [00:02:00] businessman from New York, but I got the bug early.

I was taking everything apart in the house at the age of four. It would be decades before I could put it all back together again, but it was one of those hellion kids that I read every label in the cabinet when I was three years, four years old, just started reading every jar in the grocery store and thirsty for anything to get my hands on and then found the public library had books on cars.

And from second grade, third grade on those bicycling to all the libraries and Guilford County and getting advised with my parents to check out every book I could check out 12 books at a time and memorize them. If it had cars on the cover, I got the book.

Crew Chief Eric: Back then. What was the car that got your attention the most?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Boy, you know, you get imprinted as a kid and as a gosling, I guess I got imprinted on big American cars and then very cool European sports cars. In the hometown I was in, in Greensboro, North Carolina, it was a pretty good center for sports cars. A lot of Aussie, Hilly 3000s, Jaguar XKEs. But at the same time, 66 Tornadoes, Spaceship cars, just things that the executives would drive that [00:03:00] would just knock your stocks off.

I mean, it was an amazing time to be a kid growing up in the 60s. The arrogance of Detroit as they moved away from the gaudy chrome age to the space age, it was fascinating to me. It really didn’t matter if it had gasoline in the tank from a lawnmower to a jet engine airplane. And it was fascinating to me.

Anything that was motive. I loved

Crew Chief Eric: coming up through the sixties. I mean, what an amazing time for bespoke cars too, where automotive design was all over the place compared to now where things are extremely cookie cutter. To your point, to use the phrase, the arrogance of Detroit, they went from that to the muscle car era, thanks to Pontiac and John DeLorean and others.

Right. But then we headed into the Malays era and it all seemed to go downhill very quickly from there.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: It got pretty sad. Yeah. When I graduated engineering school in the early eighties, it was like not the best time to be slowly recovering from the mugging that the seventies had done to the automotive industry.

It was a pretty sad time, but the sixties were just amazing. We call them designers now, but I call them stylists where the stylists were just ruling the day. And the engineers took a back [00:04:00] seat. Cars were made to look a certain way in the, in the U S made to look like an object of desire. Whether they drove that way or not would be another issue, whereas the European cars were, you know, more sporty and more set up for racing or you at least spirited driving so early on you you could choose a path in the North Carolina South it being stock car country.

Even in the sixties, you would choose your path. Either you were gonna be a Detroit Musclehead or you were gonna be one of those Tweed Cap wearing guys that like the European cars. I fell into that cap pretty early. I had my Hot Rod Magazine subscription at age seven, but I had my road and track and car and driver and MotorTrend at age seven as well.

Love them all, but aggregated toward spirited driving, drag racing, and all that was fun. Turning left around an oval for a hundred laps just didn’t interest me. We needed left and right turns.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re talking about European sports cars is predominantly during that time, British roadsters, right? Because Porsche hadn’t quite established itself yet as a juggernaut in the United States.

The Italians have been floundering forever stateside. So it was really the Brits [00:05:00] that were leading that charge.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: It was, and there was dirt cheap. I mean, I was mowing grass, you know, $3 a yard in my early teens. My first car we can talk about, but my first sports car was a spitfire that I got for 150 bucks in today’s dollars, you know, $800.

It was something you could buy by mowing yards. I got it when I was 14 years old and fixed it up to drive when I got my license. But they were cheap. They were everywhere, and they were all broken, and so they were all cheap.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned your first car. So that Spitfire, that Triumph was not your first.

So what was your first car?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, it becomes a long legacy. Before I was born, my grandfather retired from his company in New York, sold the company and came down about 150 acres of raw land and started playing basically Sim City. With 150 acres, but a pond in a barns and all that. Of course he bought what everybody did in the early sixties, an old world war two Jeep, a leftover Jeep first year after the war, CJ two way at the age of six, I was driving it, sitting on a phone book and driving that around the farm and learning how to double clutch and drift in two wheel drive and had a lot of [00:06:00] fun and we still have that in the family.

So that was my very first car, even though it was not titled per se in my name, my first car car. Was when I was 12, my dad had a patient that owned the Chrysler dealership and someone had traded in Ford Galaxy with a thrown rod, which was worth nothing at this point in 1962 Galaxy in 1969 would have been through four owners already and fully depreciated such for the 60.

If you didn’t change a car every year, you looked like you were poor. It’d be like having a flip phone today or whatever is the faux pas you have for carrying something in public that you shouldn’t be having. And this car, even though it was only six or seven years old, had been fully depreciated through all its owners and it’s on a rod.

So we got it for free. He towed it into the backyard, much to my mother’s chagrin, and I started playing with it. So that was my first official car. It traveled all of 100 feet or 50 feet to the end of the driveway one day, and then we blew it up just for fun. Not a functional car, but I learned a lot.

Changed the rod bearings in it. Painted the valve covers, aluminum, silver, because that’s what you do. Have a lot of fun. I think when I was 13, we got rid of it and I got into [00:07:00] motorcycles and started racing motocross and that consumed my interest until a great turning event came with my father through some great wisdom and sheer luck.

I had another patient who owned the Datsun dealership and lo and behold, he bought a Datsun 510, 1970 Datsun 510. That became my autocross car. When I was 15. I was autocrossing lying about having a license and would go to SSA events and autocross that car and modified it with a Peter Brock’s, A BRE suspension, and got into suspension design and theory curiosity with that car.

That kind lined me up along the way. It had a lot of TR threes after the Spitfire. TR fours. Europas Jag X Ks. Got into 914s. I’ve had like a dozen 914s. Got into 911s. I’ve tried to have more cars than my age. I’ve had 73 cars and I’m probably, I don’t know, 40 motorcycles. So I could be on Lifetime as a hoarder.

I do flush them out. Right now I only have a few in the driveway, so. And not all of them run. My excuse is they don’t all run, so it’s okay.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, sometimes we ask this question [00:08:00] of our guests. What’s the most gorgeous car of all time? The sexiest car all the time? Prettiest car? Things like that. I want to ask you this question because it goes so far back into your history.

The cars you thought were awesome when you were a kid, are they still the most awesome cars now that you’re an adult looking back? Is Still that prettiest car, is that that one that imprinted on you or is it something different when you kind of compare A to B

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: 66 to still knocks my socks off. Uh, and I actually had a weird experience uh, three years ago.

I was at a race shop in Concord, North Carolina and a guy had a 64 Imperial, which is not a car you see often. It’s the Green Hornet car. Yep. And you see Cadillacs in that air and you see Lincolns all the time and you never see Imperials. ’cause most of them were ruined in demolition derbies. ’cause they were impossible.

They actually got outlawed for demolition derby because they didn’t break. I ended up buying the darn thing. It was a 60, 000 mile car out of Oklahoma. I named it Edna and fell in love. And that era, again, just that audacity of this thing was huge. It was like having a porch, you know, attached to your house that you could drive around the block.

It [00:09:00] was an amazing vehicle. So I’d have to say the imprinting lasts still with me. An engineer, I’m still a very visual person. So the sleep things that were happening in the seventies. If you’re going to lead to the question of what is the most beautiful car ever? I’d have to say the very few ugly cars in the sports car world.

The day where it may be the worst looking one, the Jag, a E type coupe, that, and the, and the Ferrari 275 GTB and the Miura, you can’t say any one. It’s like asking which of my children was best looking.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, the commendatore always said, you know, Enzo, yes, that the E type was the most. Beautiful car that he had ever seen.

And look at all the cars that he had penned over the years.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Right, exactly. So we can jump ahead. When I was working in the design studio at Mazda, I was a studio engineer and I was able to work in the studio and watch the process of someone building a car from scratch out of thin air, literally out of clay and trying to make it beautiful.

And. It’s very difficult to do. I’m not a sketch artist. Barely make something that looks like what it should look like. I have a daughter who’s a Rembrandt level artist, and she can do amazing things with pen and ink. And the clay [00:10:00] modelers who interpreted what the stylist designers were saying at Mazda, to watch that process was remarkable.

And I really came out of that saying, It’s really hard to make a pretty car. It is very hard to make a three dimensional object gorgeous. God does it very well with people. And horses and giraffes, but for us to make something and then with the Miata, the RX 7, third gen RX 7 was a great exercise in that.

How beautiful can a shape be? And I think that was a penultimate exercise by, um, Chinson when he did that work. Watching that come together, I’d walk up to them at night and I’d say, guys, You know, it won’t cost me any more money to tool up a very beautiful fender. So why don’t you stay late tonight and make this fender beautiful?

Cause you’re not there yet. And we all would be critical of the shapes. And that’s also very difficult for a stylist slash designer to do the work because everyone’s a critic. They come in and say, that’s just not right. But then they think it’s beautiful. And the person may have bad taste. The executives may not get where they’re going, et cetera, et cetera.

I really came to appreciate how difficult it is to make a shape beautiful. And that makes me appreciate all the more an E type. The covered headlight E types don’t have a bad [00:11:00] angle. But on the same effect, we’re all used to seeing C4 Corvettes and we’re tired of seeing C4 Corvettes, maybe, but that shows the skill level of GM’s design studio, that there is really not a bad angle on a C4 Corvette.

You’re so used to it that you may not appreciate it, but if you were to drop that car in the 1940s into a car show, people would go crazy. It takes a lot of skill to have a car that looks beautiful from all angles. I was working at Subaru prior to Mazda when the first Subaru XT. I remember this is like it was yesterday.

We walked into the warehouse and the XT was facing a sideways. We saw the profile view of the XT and we went crazy. Cause a Subaru XT in 1985 model, 1986 model in side view, profile view is not ugly. It’s actually pretty interesting looking car for 1985. The minute you walk to the front three quarter, the whole thing.

Drops like a house of cards again, it’s very difficult to make a three dimensional object gorgeous. And you have to appreciate the skill of what it takes. And there’s very few people know what they can do. There’s not a, there’s probably not a hundred guys in the [00:12:00] world and women that can do three dimensional shapes that are gorgeous that has nothing to do with engineering or how cars drive, but just on their sheer look in some ways, the automotive industry is like the women’s shoe business.

It has to look great to sell and cars don’t look great. Don’t sell.

Crew Chief Eric: I haven’t thought about the XT in a long time. And it reminds me that visually it’s a precursor to the SVX similar sort of design. It might not have been thought of that way, but I kind of put those links in the chain together. Sometimes when I see a car and go, it has heritage right there.

So it’s kind of funny and you don’t see XTs ever on the road. I mean, if they even exist anymore, for that matter. You said you started at Subaru and then went to Mazda. How did you go from growing up in the Carolinas to suddenly finding yourself in design studios in California and things like that? What was that transition like?

How did you get your way in?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I’ll leave with a statement. It’s very difficult to get into the automotive industry. Or at least it was in the eighties and it still kind of is, but once you’re in, it’s pretty easy to move around. I went to Georgia tech [00:13:00] to learn how to design race cars or to continue my education in chassis and suspension and race car designing to punctuate that statement.

Now the Miata is the most raced car in the world because there’s a great satisfaction to that circle of life. Not just due to my credit, but what Mazda did with that design. When I graduated in early 81, I had offers. It was a great time to be an engineer, had a lot of job offers. I did not really want to go to Detroit.

And no offense to Detroit. I did not want to be the right rear door Cadillac ashtray engineer. And there is one, and I didn’t want to be that guy due to my father’s not influence. He never asked me to be a doctor, do anything else, but I wanted to use my skills to help humanity in a moment of a 22 year old empathy for the world.

So I went to the West coast to do cardiovascular implant research, and I was hired by, Heart valve company in Southern California in Irvine and design artificial heart valves and annual pesky rings. Other cardiovascular implants for about a year and a half. And ironically, my window in my office in that building looked out across to the Mazda design studio, but realized my heart wouldn’t.

That’s a bad [00:14:00] pun. My heart was not in that job, so to speak. And so left and went to Subaru when they were looking for a design engineer and did that job for a couple of years. And then Mazda had an opening. Just as they were getting the studio going for a studio engineer jumped at that chance and it was amazing because the first day on the job, they said, we’re thinking about doing a lightweight sports car.

What do you know about race cars? And I said, well, I have, that’s, you know, my number one fan. That’s what I’ve been my whole life is trying to do the race cars or sports cars. So at that point I’d had. Probably 30 European sports cars. So it was a perfect melding of opportunity and preparation for me.

Crew Chief Eric: So did you also come up through an SAE type of program?

I was, I

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: joined SAE as a student. I’ve actually a 40 year, 42 years now, I’ve been an SAE joined as a student. We didn’t have formula SAE then we had mini Baja and we had student competition on relevant engineering at Georgia Tech, which was where all the schools did this. Georgia Tech, we built a hydrogen car, hydrogen powered vehicle based on a Fiat 128, which is.

That’s a whole nother story. Sort of like

Crew Chief Eric: your [00:15:00] Datsun 510, but I wasn’t going to go there.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, that’s a, that’s damning by harsh praise to say that they’re the same. They both have a boxy shape and there’s no more similarity than that. I was very heavily involved in SAE and it was a pretty strong program at tech.

Although Michigan would have been better or, you know, where there was an automotive engineering, you know, master’s and PhD programs. But it was a very interesting time. We were reeling off the seventies where EPA and crash protection and the insurance lobby had just crushed the industry. All the research dollars had gone into a mission certification.

We had 455 cubic inch Oldsmobiles making 160 horsepower. Just a horrible time, horrible time. We had a 55 mile an hour speed limit that was clamped on the year I got my driver’s license. It was not a great time, but at the same time. We have all these great British first cars that dentists and doctors had bought and then couldn’t keep running.

So we could buy them for nothing for a few hundred dollars. You could buy a TR six, my Jag about for 600 bucks. And I got it because it was just sitting at a repair shop and a guy couldn’t afford to fix it. But it was a different [00:16:00] world and a sidebar. So if you knew how to do your own work, restoring a car in the seventies, there was no internet, there were no manuals, there were no parts.

It was a lot of blacksmithing. Luckily, English cars are blacksmith together. So you get blacksmith one back together. The NGTD that’s behind me is largely built with a hammer and some pig iron. So you can fix it. pretty readily with a crescent wrench and a hammer. But you get into more sophisticated things.

There wasn’t a microchip or a computer in anything except my early 914s and we immediately put carburetors on them. But the 70s was a very difficult time. Now you can be very bold and buy a complicated, the car next to me here, the 964, a car with 30 year old German processors that are dying as we speak.

You can listen carefully and hear them crinkling themselves to death. Yet on the internet, There’s not a problem yet I’ve had with it that you don’t find 20 guys that have already fixed it. And they’re telling you how to fix it, where to get the part or where to get the will fit part from advanced auto instead of the one that Porsche wants you to buy.

So it’s a great time now to restore these old cars.

Crew Chief Eric: You decided that there wasn’t anything exciting as Subaru anymore and you get this opportunity at Mazda. How did that play [00:17:00] out?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, it was funny. I wasn’t really looking for a job. Someone just told me, Hey, Mazda is looking for an engineer just for yucks.

I sent the resume over, but I was very happy. Phenomenal company, 40 workweek company car. Everything was perfect about Subaru of America at Subaru Technical Center, but just sent the resume out. At Georgia Tech, they had told us that you should change jobs every two years for your first 10 years so that you experience different companies and grow.

A lot of people have 20 years experience in the job. It’s really one year, 19 times. They really said be aggressive until you’re 30 or 32 and try to get as much experience as you can in any engineering, and they’ll make you a better engineer. And so I’d been a Subaru, not quite two years, but the Mazda thing, they built the arc seven and I love the rotary engine.

I was very fascinated by it and people were racing them and all that. So it was just seemed like, well, let’s go see what they had to say. And I’d kind of learned the Subaru world had kind of caught up to what they were doing. And we had just done the design work for cars that were coming out in a couple of years.

And it wasn’t going to be, it’d be five more years. We didn’t need more new cars. So it’s just [00:18:00] kind of a perfect storm. But once I got there, it was perfect opportunity. It was kind of a perfect match for the, the audience, the arc seven programs. It fit with my interest. I worked, you know, 60, 70 hours a week for free, basically.

Um, after the 40 hours a week, I worked because I just loved it. I had a great appetite for the work they were asking me to do. All of us felt that way. Everybody was just working their tail off because it was a dream job to be able to design, whether it was a Miata or the third gen RX 7 or the second gen RX 7, to be able to work on these cars and get paid for it was kind of a dream for all of us gearheads.

Crew Chief Eric: So if we align the stories of some previous guests, Also from the world of SRO, you were rubbing elbows with folks like Dean case and Jim Jordan and others who have been on road fix as well. So, I mean, talk about a long history there too, at all roads lead to Mazda. It seems like,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: yeah, well, I mean, I think it was an attractive company from an employee standpoint, engineer.

Anyway, you’d be like, I’d like to work with this company and it’d be like, where I applied to Porsche when I was a junior at Georgia tech and I got her at this. Flush letter from them saying, no, thank you. But it’s, it’s [00:19:00] very, yeah, there’s certain companies you’d like to work for. I was the first engineer hired by Mazda and, uh, a couple of years in, I said, okay, we need to expand.

And so we, we posted the job in Detroit and in Southern California. We got like 200 resumes, all of a lot of guys from Ford and GM and Chrysler wanted to move to Detroit. You know, Newport Beach Irvine in Southern California. And I had this stack of hundreds and hundreds of resumes and I’m going through them and there’s this one from this guy from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo.

And he had an essay paper that he had written, stapled to his resume. And I go on, this guy’s got enough moxie to write an essay paper on his own. He’s 21, 22 years old. And he drives a Mini Cooper like the original Mini Cooper. And I’m like. Okay. We’ve got to interview this guy. Dean walked in the door and I said, okay, that’s it.

You’re done. You’re, you’re, you’re hired. There’s no question. We need you. If you have a mini Cooper, you can keep it running and have a engineering degree. Where’s that?

Crew Chief Eric: So did he have long hair then? Like he does now.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Now, if you Google Jack Nicholson, 1960 is what, that’s what he looked like. He looked like a young Jack Nicholson.

Crew Chief Eric: Dean told us the story of. the Miata from [00:20:00] his perspective, but I want to get it from your perspective when I ask you some poignant questions as well. So how early or late in the Miata’s birth process did you get engaged?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I came in just as the first clay model. was finished. And so the first clay model was just a flyer.

Let’s just do a two seater. The package development underneath it was a Mazda GLC front engine rear wheel drive car, live axle, very tall engine, very tall package. When you look at the image of the first clay model and the first running prototype, very, very tall. So they needed a packaging engineer to bring that down to sports car world.

But that was just more. It was really good at making a clay model and or making a running prototype of a concept to their credit. They really were brilliant in many ways about design. They would build in many cases, a running clay model fiberglass version and put it out in traffic. And I remember many times we would take the cars down to Laguna Beach and drive these rickety prototypes.

Almost a kit car, but with a shell on it up and down Laguna beach. While our executives would sit at a [00:21:00] cafe, a sidewalk and watch it in traffic. And it was really excellent because you can look at a car in a curtain viewing yard, and you get a real world view of what it looks like seeing it in traffic.

You really get to see what a beautiful car looks like. So I came in just as we started building a running prototype of that first play a model, and it was commissioned by ID international automotive design owned and run by the late John shoots in out of England. And they built them on in prototype and shipped it over right hand drive.

And I remember the night we unpacked it and I haven’t told the story before. I actually snuck it out and drove it around Newport beat for about a half an hour at night, knowing no one can get a picture of it, realizing you’re going to have British electronics and they’d never been driven before. It was a great risk.

I didn’t have a wreck or break the car, brought it back. And then later we took it to Santa Barbara and there’s, there’s a trip that’s been talked about a lot where we showed that car up in Santa Barbara. So from there, the program got go ahead to go to the next phase, which would be to do a serious package.

of a sports car. And that’s where my work began, uh, put the engineering under the shape. And that’s where the push and pull the tug of war began [00:22:00] of Hayashi san and Yagi san, Mark Jordan, Kamatano and Shinzon all wanted a very low cowl point. The windshield wiper area wanted a very low hood line. I wanted a low belt line because the spit fire that I had, you could put your arm out the window and it would just fit your armpit.

And if, and that’s really important so that you don’t look like you stole your dad’s car. I think it’s the Lexus SC 300 that even a six foot tall guy looks like he’s 12 year old kid. Not flattering, nor is it fun. Low belt line, things like that. We all talked about how to get this package correct from the first clay to the second clay.

And if you look at pictures of the second clay model, you’ll see that It’s actually really tight. It’s not that glamorous of a shape. That’s a tremendous accomplishment, if I may say so, for the engineering team in Japan and the work I was doing to get that tight and get it small. Along the way of getting it small, I was working on making it raceable.

And that is double wishbone suspension, weight distribution inside the wheel center lines. Weight distribution, left to right, correct. All of the things that make a car tunable for racing. If you have the weight distribution and the suspension geometry is wrong in the layout [00:23:00] stage, and you get locked into that, you can never tune that out.

You can’t take a live axle Camaro and make it, you can’t make it a fantastic race car, you can make it competent with great tires and sway bars and lock down the springs and dampers. So the thing doesn’t move, make it into a go kart and then it handles, but it’s not what we were shooting for with the Miata.

We were really looking for a car. That communicated lightness and nimbleness to the owner. And that starts at the design stage of the initial layout, where do the components go and what kind of space do you leave for the suspension that you need to give you the camber patterns that you want so that you can let the body roll.

Crew Chief Eric: So you touch on something really important, the lightness and the speed, and that’s the mantra of Lotus. And it’s often said, you know, when you ask people, the answer is always Miata. And then the joke is the original answer was always Lotus. And when you look at the NA Miata, you see a lot of inspiration from the Elan.

There’s always been rumors and things like that, that Mazda bought cars and took them apart or this and that, or they were copying this and the other thing. But it sounds like you guys were starting from scratch, but did you take inspiration from [00:24:00] Lotus?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: No, not, I mean, you can say that from a styling standpoint, only because there’s a long hood short deck car, as is a C4 Corvette, as is a lot of cars.

So proportions are there. And a lot is actually about. 70 percent or 75 percent the size of a Miata. It’s actually a very small, fragile car. I don’t know how many thousands they sold, but it was not that greatly accepted of a car as good a design as it was. And I’m not dissing the design at all. Being a former Europa owner, I loved everything Colin Chapman did with Lotus cars.

From an engineering standpoint, there’s not one iota from it. So it’s kind of a naive ninth grader, kind of a mentality to say that it’s designed after the alarm. Did you look under the skin immediately? The Lotus Elan had the backbone chassis, uh, actually has Colin Chapman’s version of McPherson struts.

He had Chapman struts in the rear and just not, not anywhere near the same car. We actually, IAD. After they did the first model, we commissioned them because Mazda had no manpower to do this work. We’re all working, looting hand to mouth, so to speak, with time. They asked ID to do a chassis proposal and they proposed a backbone chassis.

It looked just like a Lotus [00:25:00] Elan, and it was heavy and wrong and wouldn’t have passed side impact crash testing. Didn’t have the torsional rigidity that we needed for the convertible. And Elan worked because it didn’t have very much of a heavy chassis. The chassis was fine because the body didn’t weigh anything.

The whole car is 1, 500, 1, 600 pounds. And it’s hard for people to understand this, but the real feat of the NA Miata. is a thousand kilogram car that can take a 30 mile an hour crash in the front. There’s not an M. G. B. R. Spitfire that close to that, particularly when they were frame on body cars, unibody car like the two 40 Z.

All of those have to change as they got into the eighties and the insurance companies require that crash test. We were locked into that from day one. We had to have Third, about our crash protection. And this is a side story. We are worried about rollover protection because in 76, Cadillac said the last convertible that’ll ever be made is the Cadillac El Condor Auto.

You better buy this. There’ll never be another convertible period. And so the Japanese had taken that to heart. And I remember they came to me and they said, can you look this up? Because I don’t think we can build a convertible anymore. Literally had to read the federal motor vehicle safety standard, which is.

The reams [00:26:00] and reams of boring, boring regulations. And I got to the section on rollover protection and I fell in love with the GM lawyers for this one moment because they had petitioned subparagraph 5996b that said all the things that had to happen and then there’s one little clause said convertibles colon.

Exempt. I copied that and faxed it to Japan and everybody was like, Oh, we can make a convertible.

Crew Chief Eric: Funny you bring that up because I remember reading in Lee Iacocca’s first autobiography where he mentions that when he gets to Chrysler and he said there hasn’t been a convertible for sale for so long in the United States.

And the story goes, as he writes it, then he waltzes down to the production area where they’re building the LeBarons and he goes, cut the roof off. And they’re like, excuse me, why do you guys just saws all the roof off? I want to see it as a convertible. And they’re like, you’re crazy. And then the next year there’s a LeBaron convertible.

It’s the first reintroduced convertible in the United States since that El Dorado. And that was in the early, early eighties,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: right?

Crew Chief Eric: There was a 20 year blackout period. Yeah. Although, you [00:27:00] know,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: the LeBaron wasn’t really, the K car was improved by having a stop that got off.

Crew Chief Eric: No, no, no, it was not. To go back to what we were talking about before the Miata, if it isn’t a copy of the Elan, which we know it isn’t, it does derive its inspiration from classic British roadsters.

When you look at it, you think Lotus Elan or MGB or Spitfire or whatever. It just has that appeal to it. It’s I’d hate to say one of the last true roadsters, if you look at, especially when it came out, right. And we joke about this all the time, in some cases, certain cars, they’re designed early and come out in the next decade.

So the Miata is like the best nineties car designed in the eighties. If you think about it, how long it takes these vehicles to come to market. But if you look at everything that came before, even the Italian roadsters, like the Fiat 124 Spyder and the Alfa Duetto and things like that, they were all gone by that point where they had been sunsetted.

It’s the last hope for anybody that wanted a true roadster until obviously the Boxster came along many, [00:28:00] many years later and things like that.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah. That’s a really good point.

Crew Chief Eric: So that being said, why flip up headlights? You’re building this revolutionary car and you hang on to something that is so 80s.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, you have to go back to the FMVSS, the headlamp height requirement, 19 inches to the center or whatever it is. I can’t remember the exact number. You would have to have a bug eye Sprite or a 240Z, or you had to put the headlights up where a 911 has them. And we wanted a low hood. And the RX 7 first gen had already done it.

So it was just a, it was really a part spin kind of a decision. The mechanism was off the shelf, so to speak. It made the front end look great. So back to your point about making it look old when it was new, we wanted it to look five years old when it came out. That it looked classic, and that it would look the same 20 years from now.

That it would still be a proper looking car, be in its own right, an attractive feature. And the same thing happened for the FD RX 7, the last generation RX 7 was Let’s make a gorgeous car, just as gorgeous as it can be. Cause Ferrari never worried about what era they were making these great cars. And this, and look at the mirror.

It didn’t matter what year that came out. It was going to be gorgeous. So we [00:29:00] tried to disengage ourselves from the trends. Now you look at a modern Prius and this crazy back end they’ve got on them. That car’s going to look horrible in five years or 10 or in five minutes. However,

Crew Chief Eric: it didn’t look good to begin with.

So

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: yeah, so it’s not going to age well. So we purposely, the stylists and the designers and the team were like, well, let’s make this thing look. Classic when it comes out, but age well. And that comes from the classic proportions you’re talking about. And the Lucy lawn, I’ll say, uh, praise for the engineers that was done by an engineer as was the nine 11.

And, you know, certain shapes are just naturally almost mathematically correct. And even the Jaguar E type coupe is combination of three ellipses, if you could draw it. That’s the only car I can draw. Cause it’s three ellipses. You can put certain standard rules of proportion into play and come up with some pretty good shapes.

And that’s. But the NA and the NC and of course the ND all have that same kind of proportion, short deck, long hood, low belt line.

Crew Chief Eric: The NC put on the freshman 15 though, I mean we all know that right? Ford got their hands in that, so it’s all another story.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yes, the NCs are actually great driving cars.

They’re amazing to drive,

Crew Chief Eric: they’re [00:30:00] absolutely fantastic.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah, I’ve been around Laguna Seca for a bunch of hot laps in a spec Miata NC version, and it’s a blast. It got heavy because Ford got involved and asked for off the shelf items, and that makes things heavy. That was the beauty of the NA, it was a thousand kilogram car.

So we’re going to make a thousand kilogram sports car. And it was beautiful because the RX 7 was already there. FC RX 7 existed as the 944 competitor. Like it or not, it was a great car, a lot of technology in it, drove like a dream. And for its period was attractive when it came out. And to me, you know, it had its moment in time.

Bob Hall will tell you this, every product planner will tell you this, every car moves up in its price and weight as it ages, and the Miata was not exempt from that, neither was the RX 7, neither was the RAV4, everything gets bigger kind of as it grows. And that was the beauty of what happened with the ND was I said, wait a minute.

This is not what needs to happen is you need to get back to the formula. And they did, you know, we were under a thousand kilograms for the NA in the non airbag spec. Well, they actually, even the airbag spec, the U. S. spec was 2168 or something. So right [00:31:00] under 2, 200 pounds, which is a thousand kilograms. And the ninth grade physics doesn’t go away.

If you have a tennis ball on a fishing line, you can swing it all you want. You put a brick on that fishing line. You can’t turn the corner. It doesn’t matter how much you love your GTR. It is a very heavy car to ask to go around corners. I teach driving schools at the tracks in the Southeast. We love the GTRs, but it’s a whole lot different action around the track than a Miata or an MR2 or, you know, some of the lightweight car

Crew Chief Eric: at that time at Mazda.

Like you said, there was a lot of rotary action going on, right? You still had the FC and you had the FD coming out and other vehicles. So why put A British like, Qazi inspired, twin cam four cylinder in the Miata and not a rotary. Who made that decision?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: That’s an excellent question. The team in California, we’ve fought for three or four main features.

Had to be front engine rear wheel drive. Had to be convertible. It had to be a four cylinder engine. The rotary is great. Did not have the character we were looking for. We wanted the noisy communicative vibration of a twin cam [00:32:00] Porsche like an Alfa Romeo would have. And we had Alfa 2000s that had great engines.

We all loved their five speeds. All of that was great. So we really wanted that character of a classic sports car. From an engineering standpoint, the centerline of a rotary engine is much higher than the crankshaft centerline of a four cylinder. So it intrudes in the bell housing and the firewall area such that the HVAC system is very difficult to package.

I made a drawing, I packaged a 12A, And one of my layouts for the Miata, and it fit, it’s all fine. But you pick up three or four inches in the center under the bell housing. And now the clutch and flywheel are where now the radio is in the Miata. It also messes with the center of gravity. Couple of things happened.

The RX 7 FD had this phenomenal low hood line, and that’s what the rotary can give you. And that was where we were going with the NA Miata. Great. Let’s do a low hood line. But we did it with a four cylinder, which was actually, it was a lot of work to try to get that to happen with a low cowl point windshield wiper area and a low hood line with a four cylinder was very difficult, but the rotary character to the summarize of the team, Bob Hall, Tom Montana, myself, Mark Jordan, [00:33:00] all of us, uh, Jim Kilburn.

We all were like, this has to be a four cylinder Raspi note car. Another point is naturally aspirated rotary engines have really good power, but the torque curve is dead flat. And you don’t feel even the, uh, normally naturally aspirated FC arc sevens are very, very fast, but it didn’t feel fast. It’s like going down an elevator.

Once you accelerated, you kind of didn’t feel. And in the Miata, it was purposely tuned so that the torque curve has an ever increasing slope. Your inner ear is constantly getting pulled to another degree of acceleration. And it makes you think you’re a lot faster than you are. But it’s very entertaining and very rewarding.

An 8 second or 9 second 0 60 feels a lot faster than it is because your inner ear is getting the satisfaction of every increasing acceleration, millisecond by millisecond. Rotary engine really doesn’t deliver that in a naturally aspirated sense.

Crew Chief Eric: You said earlier you’re not an artist, maybe akin to styling of the Volvo 850.

Not to talk about Volvo, but we can go there. Straight edge. Right. My daughter could draw a [00:34:00] 50, but that’s okay. That aside, and you are an artist, right? If you look at the Miata, it is a gorgeous design. It’s timeless. The FDR seven, even more. So you can take that car today, show up at a car show. And people go, I don’t know what year this is from, even though it’s from 1993, the same is true of the Mark four Supra and the Audi R8.

There’s a lot of designs that are just timeless. But when you look at the original Miata and maybe the NB, you would see the flaws. What are some things about the Miata that just irritate you that maybe you had to compromise on that you had wished were different or you had planned to be different?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I’ll have to say, Eric, this sounds like I’ve drank the Kool Aid many times over, but there’s not a thing about it I don’t love.

I drive a BRG every day and I look back at it every time I walk away from it. And there’s not an angle to my C4 Corvette Comet. There’s not an angle about it I don’t like. And the MB actually, in its own right, was excellent. If you’re going to do fixed headlights and move a car forward, it’s actually a better car.

Not necessarily a better Miata, but it’s a better car. It’s the same car underneath, essentially. Those two are very satisfying shapes to me. Drove the [00:35:00] first, uh, it was a service prototype in, uh, gosh, this would have been April of 89, three months before the official introduction. I got my hands, I was at a SCCA event and I was invited to speak and Mazda had delivered one of the service cars because they put those out to the service training centers early and they trailered it to this autocross event and they let me take it around the track.

And I’ll never forget, I had a passenger, Vince Tittle was with me, we get in the car and we go up to this J turn, uh, you know, like I’m Probably a 30 mile an hour entry and then whatever you want to do on the outside. I’d never driven the car before. I’d never driven any production Miata. This is the first one anyone had seen in the U S I was this sweeping left turn with a real sharp apex.

And I went into it full throttle and probably 50 miles an hour in second lifted the back end, stepped out three degrees, like you expect it to nail the apex, stop on the gas and the thing took a set and shot corner out was perfect. And it was like, this car is perfect. It was unbelievable. Well, it was. The weird science movie kind of moment of wow, they took this two dimensional object.

We all [00:36:00] drew this three dimensional clay model and with the brilliance of Mazda engineers turned it into the dream because we made a laundry list of what it should be like. It’s one thing to say, here’s the beachfront property. I want a three level modern house along the lines of falling water by Frank Lloyd Wright.

There’s another thing to actually get that to actually make that happen and Mazda made it happen to your point of what would I change? The only thing I didn’t like about it was the ship knob. Because the Mazda guys were so good at NVH and they could have made that car very Lexus quiet as Toyota does.

They were very much a stickler, had been dinged in the past about vibrations to the shift handle. So they put this half a pound shift knob on it and it, that was the only thing I could find a fault with, is that it would, that was just a little heavy. The rest of the car is perfect.

Crew Chief Eric: You say yourself, it puts a smile on your face.

That you see the success of the Miata, especially in amateur racing and all the, you know, Miata cups and MX5 cups and things like that, that have existed over the years. But when you walk through the paddock and you see a Miata that’s been converted, has been modified, has all these things that they’ve come up with, do you kind of scratch your head and go, why?

Or [00:37:00] does it upset you? You just kind of like let it roll. I mean, that’s your baby, right? It’s the Miata. And then you just said the suspension’s perfect. And here they are throwing it away, going, ah, that stuff is junk. This is what you really need.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, there are a lot of people that are messing up the suspension with that.

And in my, my book, uh, I wrote about how not to mess the car up. As far as the customizing and all that, when we, when we designed the car, we literally, Eric said, we’re designing this car for the guy cutting grass. 500 bucks to buy me out of the blue car behind me is my son’s car. We got for 500 bucks. He got it when he was 12 and he fixed it up and drove it when he, since he was 16.

And that’s that fifth owner is who we wanted the car to have because we got cars that way. So we said, we need this car to be that fourth, fifth owner guy or girl. They get this thing for working at McDonald’s for X dollars an hour can afford to buy this entry level car when they’re a teenager in high school, whatever they do with it.

I think it’s fantastic. Some of the creative stuff’s amazing. I’m not really that much a fan of 10 degrees, negative camber, but other than some of the things. And it’s fine. It’s expression. When we had our British cars in the [00:38:00] 70s and 60s, we were just trying to keep them alive. We did not have any time to be creative.

Um, now, here we have a car that, to be honest, don’t break. So what are you going to do with it? Well, let’s modify it. I’m all for it. Everyone has different tastes. If I was 30, I might have a lot more to say about it. But being twice that, I’m kind of like, I see what everybody’s expressing themselves. I think it’s great.

Crew Chief Eric: I meant even in the spec series, right? Where it’s like, thou shalt use this suspension. And it feels like sacrilege, right?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Oh, well, no, I get that for spec. So for racing, I’m more of the 60s Grand Prix, where you just do the best you can do. And the rules are very loose. And it’s a very short rule book. Spec series, though, you have to either cheat really well or drive really much like an idiot.

And be really aggressive or just be really talented, but the spec series is there. I mean, we saw that with the Dotsons and all that stuff as it began, where you have a spec series. And I understand the spirit of what a spec series is trying to do. So your question was more of clamping down the creativity of how this design could be changed.

Crew Chief Eric: Or maybe changing it in such a way that goes against what [00:39:00] you initially designed. Like the car actually handles worse than you intended it to.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: A lot of people have an egregious reaction. They’ve got a really stiff springs and really high sway bars because they have terrible camber patterns. And when you have a BMW three series that has semi trailing arms and comparison struts, yeah, you need to clamp that down.

Don’t let the darn thing roll because the camber patterns are terrible. And then the oddest case is we designed it to have. Very good camber patterns. And the journalists always talk about how much body roll, even the Indy has body roll communicates to the driver that tells your inner ear. You’re in a corner and it’s how you communicate back to the driver.

Another 10th of a degree of role tells you you’re now closer to the limit of the suspension or your adhesions. It’s a way you communicate to the driver. Now a race driver doesn’t need that level of communication is trying to get more and more traction and acceleration and the corners, but ultimate G force is not what the Street goes for and I think mature enthusiasts know that what’s good for the racetrack is completely wrong for the street and the Miata is designed and delivered as a street car as are most 9 11’s and 9 14’s and 9 44’s and all the sports cars that we love [00:40:00] all come designed to be driven on the street because otherwise you can’t sell 40, 000 of the year.

Case in point, the S 2000 Honda. was over damped and over sprung. I think if you did a statistical study, very few male owners would have kidney stones of s two thousands because they were so rough. Everything was shaken out of you. It was not a pleasant car to live with, but it was very fast, great, beautiful engine, one of the best engines ever made and great performance on the track for the journalists to print really good articles about.

And that’s fine. They placed it above the Miata in that respect, but not a great car to live with.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a fair statement. Unfair statements would probably be all the memes and jokes and things that go along with Miata ownership, but we’re going to skip all those

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: and

Crew Chief Eric: answer a very important question that a lot of people don’t seem to know the answer to.

A, is it Miata? B, is it MX 5? And if it is Miata, what does Miata even mean?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, if no one knows the story, it could be Unos Roadstar. So in Japan, it’s the Unos, MX 5 in Europe. Uh, it’ll always be a Miata to me. Yeah. So Miata is a ride by master [00:41:00] is a great product planner and bless him. He was three beers into reading the German dictionary one night and found old high German for reward prize is the word Miata, M I A T A.

And he said, yeah, that’s a good name. And we tested it. Uh, we Mazda tested it. It sounded Italian to the focus groups should sold. Call it a Miata.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: We had on the clay models. If you see pictures. One of the early clay models had 1600s as the name. It was the Mazda 1600s, which is an ancient name to put on a car, but that’s what we wanted to call it.

But that’s why we were engineers and not product planners.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Like Nissan and the fair lady, 2000 and stuff like

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: that. Like Bluebird. How would you like your Bluebird to the other racetrack? Yeah, so

Crew Chief Eric: what does the MX stand for for those that don’t know?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, MX is Mazdas. The X is like rx, and MX is just a, it’s a moniker.

There may actually be a whole dossier somewhere. There’s a big report on what MX stands for, and I, it’s in Japanese, so I didn’t read it, but it’s set. I’m sure something like more, better, best, and [00:42:00] X for excellence. But there’s MX, that’s kind of the sports car series for Mazda.

Crew Chief Eric: I read somewhere that the X stood for experimental, going back to some of the early cars, but whatever, who knows, right?

Could be,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: yeah, I, so to me, P729 is what the car is to me, and my license plate actually on my BRG is P729, and that’s what the car, that’s our project number, that was our secret project number, so to me, the car will always be a P729. The N A anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: The N E, if there is one, what do you think? What’s the fifth generation of the Miata look like in your imagination?

Is it going to be an E V? Is it even going to exist? Is it going to be slightly larger than the N D?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: It’ll never be an E V, so let’s throw that away. E V is like listening to your favorite song on mute. That’s a

Crew Chief Eric: great way to put it.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: That’s what I think of VVs and I’ve driven Tesla Model S’s a lot of times.

The Tesla’s, it’s great, but you kind of get bored with them after the fifth time you’ve done a zero to 60 in four seconds. Like, okay, that’s fun, but there’s no communication whatsoever. So the Miata being a communicative [00:43:00] device needs a four stroke engine. So let’s keep it at that way. I’ve gotten in charge of this.

Let’s say, um, knowing the Mazda people, I think they learned the lesson with the NC and the ND that lighter is better. And at some point it’s kind of like this thing is perfected. You look at the Corvette, the C5 chassis. was perfected. The C six is the C five of the new bodies and the C four actually set the stage for the C fives.

At some point you’ve got this excellent chassis. The N D is so good. You don’t need to spend 100 million retooling yet another suspension design. And so the question is, how long do you go before you rebody it? And that’s always the question. You watch sales. And you think when it needs to be refreshed and you refresh it a little bit, and then you do a major rebody at some point again, I’m not in charge, but I think you see it more on the lines of let’s take this great chassis.

That’s excellent. Even in the modern world. This is a 6 seconds, 0 to 60 car. So what more do you need than all that? And it does the crash protection. It does all the things you have to have. It’s still a 200, 000. My son’s blue car out here is 310, 000 miles on the car. Already it’s evolved to be a phenomenal [00:44:00] device for transportation.

So I think now it comes down to design and styling. And so how do you keep modern with that? I mean, there’s some beautiful cars out here in that category. The, the current BMW Z4, particularly the hardtop version is a gorgeous proportions and the ND is also gorgeous. And that was so difficult to do. The team that did that, Derek and the team are to be commended because that.

It’s like let’s freeway gone with the wind or something is how you come to that. And I think they did a phenomenal job again, a car without a bad angle on it.

Crew Chief Eric: So I’m a little bit more partial to the Miata’s close cousin, the Fiat, as I like to call it, the Fiat 124 Abarth. What do you think of that re skinned, re imagined You

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: know, it offended me a lot less than I thought it would.

I’d say I drove it. I didn’t like, I don’t like turbo engines because they’re non linear power delivery devices. And with a manual transmission, you get a lot of non linear power. It’s hard to apex a corner at full song with non linear power. So I wasn’t really pleased with the visceral nature of driving one.

The way it looked, I was like, you [00:45:00] know what? That’s actually not an ugly car. It actually is a pleasant looking vehicle. It’s not a Miata, and I think it’s fine. The whole point of this, we’ll go back to a sidebar here. When the first NA Miata got the automatic transmission, all the purists cried. And we said, Guys, if it keeps the five speed cars on the road, because now Mazda sells 5, 000 extra 10, 000 or 20, 000 extra cars, you’ve got to keep the product alive.

When this nine 64 next to me was sold, Porsche only sold 4, 000 cars that year of nine 11s, 4, 000 cars will kill a company. The NSX died there. FDR seven died out of low volume. You have to keep volume up at the end of the day. It’s a business. If the Fiat. Keeps that platform going and makes it profitable for all concerned.

Then it keeps that platform going and that’s good for everybody.

Crew Chief Eric: And unfortunately they put a pin in the one 24 at the moment. Although I hear rumor that they might be reintroducing it as the Alfa Romeo duetto version, many of us is just. The spider, I’ve seen some concept pictures of it. It’s pretty cool.

There also lingers that question of [00:46:00] why.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah, well, yeah. So for the purist, that’s the problem. It’s like my, my son is an intern with Apple and he knows way too much about iPhones and computers. The purist is so close to this, that we can’t suspend disbelief long enough to think that a fiat is something other than a reskinned endemiata.

And that would happen with any alpha version of it. Again, We’ll go back to 1900 when people bought chassis and re skinned them with some beautiful, you know, Duesenbergs and things like that later on came from coach makers, knowing how to re skin chassis. Maybe there’s a version of that in the modern world for these niche cars.

Ford Mach E is selling, you know, I think I saw hundreds of thousands of these things. So that’s what they want. The Fiero died when it got under a hundred thousand units a year. You have to keep volumes up. The Miata is profitable at 20 to 40, 000 units a year. And so that’s a nice niche, but that comes from Mazda knowing how to build cars really well.

And do it on a shared assembly line, which GM and others don’t do.

Crew Chief Eric: I also think it’s helpful that Mazda invested so much in their motor sports program, right. Especially with, you know, help from people like Dean and Jim and [00:47:00] others who were involved in those programs and getting them off the ground.

Because when you talk about the Fiero, you’re right. It was a great car in its last two years, right? You always kind of go, when they finally got it right, they stopped selling it, which is always the case with any sports car. Look at the 9 44 with the non turbo S twos, everybody goes, it was amazing.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Right.

Crew Chief Eric: But then they got rid of it. You know, things like that. Mazda invested a lot in the motorsport side of it and grassroots motorsports has kept the Miata. The NA Miata is around now for 32 years. Right. I mean, they keep going strong. I wonder if some of those cars, not just by volume would have perpetuated if they had had the backing of motorsport behind them.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: They might have. And then, then the engineering wants to say, but you, could you really make a Fiero race? Cause you look at the solstice, they tried to make a solstice series. And the Solstice was not a sports car, it was a very nice shape with no soul with a bunch of Cavalier parts underneath. So it didn’t work.

Crew Chief Eric: But the question is, did it work in Europe? Because it was the Vauxhall VXR as well as the Opel GT. So here’s GM selling against itself. That was a big problem with [00:48:00] GM. It’s like, we’re going to introduce the same car with five different badges that looks five different ways. And everybody goes, Oh, the Saturn Sky and the Solstice and the Opel and the Vauxhall are all the same car.

And now their volume numbers are down artificially If you cumulatively looked at all of it, it actually sold pretty well on the global market, right? You know,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: but that makes the accountants and the actuarials happy because they got volumes and they had to amortize that tooling somehow.

Crew Chief Eric: True. But the problem is in Mazda’s case, they went, we have one Miata and we sell the same Miata everywhere.

It’s like Catholic church. You know what you’re getting every year.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I like that. Yeah, you’re right. It’s all, it’s fine. One menu, but, but, Yeah, Order McDonald’s, uh, you know, Big Mac is the same world round. But, you know, when we were small, like Mazda, and have to amortize the tooling, we did the, the story for the Inaneata, the whole program was, development cost was 123 million.

So multiply that by Two and a half, three, you know, to get that number. That’s really a cheap program, but you’ve got to amortize it over small [00:49:00] volumes, maybe 50, 60, 000 cars a year. That’s a difficult thing. And the end of the day, you know, Ferrari builds 200 cars and charges back in the day, back in the sixties and seventies, they built 200 of something, and maybe they’d have 4, 000 of a Dino or something.

So very low volumes. And that just doesn’t fly in the modern world. So back to the alpha, if alpha could take an Indy chassis or an Indy chassis, wherever it comes. To be and make a car of it in low volumes better for the market. A friend of mine has a fiat, as you will loves it, and because it’s different, it’s a matter of what you’re looking for.

In my case, for me personally, I’m 0.01 percenter of the market. Nobody’s gonna build a car for me ’cause I’m driving all these old things with no computers or whatever. But the mass market, the 90th percentile customer is maybe coming out of a Civic or a WRX or something, a different kind of car, and they aren’t gonna be that specialized for a two seat sports car with a small trunk.

There are compromises

Crew Chief Eric: with the Miata having been such a high volume vehicle. If you look at its entire lifespan, it keeps it out of the realm and [00:50:00] out of the reach of ever being a collector car. So when you compare it to the old Fiats and the Alfa Romeos and the Ferraris and the Triumphs and MGs, it’ll never attain that status because there’s just too many of them.

And unlike 911s where people converted them into race cars and there’s fabulous 911 race cars out there that are collectible. Some people are converting them back to street cars now and things like that. I don’t ever see that happening with the Miata.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Prices are starting to go up. Hagerty’s index is rising for the NAs.

Not that I think that needs to happen. Again, I like it that everybody used to have a cheap one. Most of my kids have had a Miata and we got them all pretty cheap. I like that they’re low priced. I don’t know, will they ever be collectible? That’s a hard thing. I’m the wrong guy to talk about collectibility because some of the auction houses and cars that are artificially jacked up in their prices, just cause somebody says it’s worth that.

I’ve seen 500, that, you know, we used to throw away for 500 bucks. So it’s kind of like. But

Crew Chief Eric: if you turn that over, car produced at the same time, the FDR X7 is definitely a collector vehicle, [00:51:00]

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: right? And maybe due to its rarity. So your comment is that damned by its popularity, that’s fine. The metric of, is it collectible or not really doesn’t matter to me.

And in fact, as often been said, the five or six of us that developed the original Miata from product planning, Bob Hall in design, Tom and Mark Jordan, Chin and Yagi san, Hashi san, and myself in the engineering and Dean Cates, we just wanted a dozen cars to be built. It could have failed the next year. We really didn’t care.

We just wanted one for ourselves. So the fact that there’s over a million of them on the road is great. It means we get parts really easy for the ones we have.

Crew Chief Eric: And I feel you there. And I bring this up only because in recent times coming from a BW Porsche Audi family, I see the same thing with Mark 1 and Mark 2 GTIs.

And people are like, Oh, 27, 000 for my Mark 1 GTI. I’m like, get out of here. They made a million of them. Yeah. Still junk.

Crew Chief Brad: Right.

Crew Chief Eric: Only jacking up the value for nostalgia purposes. It’s not a 911. Same is true of a 945. It was the commodity Porsche, just like the 308 Ferrari, there was a million of them. You’re like, all [00:52:00] right, fine.

That’s great for the enthusiast because there will always be an enthusiast base for cars like that. And you’ll continue to see them at the track alongside of C4 E30 and E36 BMWs and everything that we love about. Going to those types of events. So the Biana has its home and it, I think it always will.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: And then that makes me happy as one of the original team members, because it means that it’ll be the proletariat’s car. It’ll be a car people can enjoy and keep trading and keep passing along. Did the math one night. There’s been over a million, say a million, 1. 2 million built, but they’ve all been traded.

So there’s probably like 3 million. Enthusiasts in the world that have enjoyed a Miata. That’s a great footprint. I don’t know. This is an amazing thing That’s what we wanted We wanted everybody to enjoy this great little concept of a car and in our world It was a distillation back to the original design team one day We sat down and said what kind of cars have you had and everybody talked and so we had a coon tie So I had a Val Alunga’s You know, some phenomenal cars.

I said it before, it’s like we all brought our cigar box full of favorite marbles to the table and dumped all the marbles [00:53:00] on the table. And then we picked the best marbles out of the batch. And it was, Oh, I would have the weight distribution of the on the, you know, the low belt line of the Spitfire, sheer gorgeousness of the XKE, the Vallelunga’s proportion for a small car, all of these things.

Let’s put this into one car in Mazda. Japan was 10, 000 miles away and we didn’t have internet. We had faxes. So we were kind of, we were just left. It was like the teacher was out of the room in the sky. Kids got to play in the classroom. Uh, we just got on the chalkboard and just made up this thing. Sent it over to Japan and they caught the fever and said, Wow, this actually could work.

And then it took off. And they engineered, you know, the final bits and put the thing together and tuned it. And to that point, Mazda gets so much credit because it’s like the last generation MR2. I guess that would have been the third gen MR2. It was a phenomena. It was like a little 348 Ferrari. It was a beautiful little car, well evolved, no soul whatsoever.

The first one was a transformer car. It was a very period car, full of Corolla parts, had no soul. You could drift it on an entrance ramp, but it just didn’t have, it wasn’t connected to itself. And we wanted to avoid that Stepford wife. Literally, we use that term the [00:54:00] Stanford wife nature of the Japanese cars that had no soul and we wanted to put a soul into the Miata and we described the best we could from our experiences from our 65 sports cars and Japan in perfect Japanese style dissected those words and got their own metrics and their own 160 different exhaust systems and whatever just went through the process to make a car fit that target and have a soul.

Crew Chief Eric: Funny you bring up the original MR2 because, you know, that goes in line with what we were talking about earlier about Japanese do have a propensity to copy and enhance, and they’re very good at that. And when you look at that first gen MR2, you go fiat X one nine, except they didn’t really know how to do it.

The second MR2, we’re not really sure. And the third one was the poor man’s Elise, right? We all know that. That whole chassis was shared with Lotus or whatever, but there’s a lot of that going on. But again, to your point, the Miata stood alone. It took its inspiration from those great British roadsters that we talked about earlier.

I want to kind of talk about a couple other things that are important to you, which is restoring old cars. You’re maintaining a fleet of older vehicles. You’ve. Done [00:55:00] the revolving door of cars over the years, along with keeping up with old cars is also engine tuning and performance. And there’s a lot of hocus pocus and a lot of, he said, she said, when it comes to building cars, I mean, I talk about this a lot in my student sessions that I give, you know, at HPDs and time trials, where it’s like, you don’t have a wind tunnel at your disposal.

Are you sure that that’s spoiler or air dam that you’re adding that a designer like Norman put on actually is. Benefiting the car, you know, that sort of thing. So I’m sure those are pet peeves of yours as well. So I just wanted to touch on that as we progress the conversation.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I agree. I just, I’m into patina now in my older years, because I’ve seen so many over restored cars.

I remember I was at Rick Strayman’s restoration shop in coastal Mesa back when I was with Milesda. And he was using Emron paint, the two part urethane paint on the drive shaft of an MGTC. And I said, nobody needs a high gloss drive shaft on an MCTC. Some guy brushed it on at the factory out of a tar bucket.

Now you’re overdoing [00:56:00] it. Don’t over restore a car. Actually, I love the Imperial that I bought because it had original paint, and it was in my old 914 that I wrote about in Hagerty. Dusty, chalky paint. And when I drive it, people go, Oh, that’s an old 914. That’s right. It’s an old 914. It should be old. It’s a 40 year old car.

It should look that way or just me. If you’re 20 and 30, you can think what you want, but when you’re my age, you’ve seen so many restored cars that don’t really look like what they did in the showroom. It doesn’t bring it back. When I see them faded, With a little dust on the chrome and a little bit of taillights.

That’s how the cars look. And that takes me back. That takes me more back than over short cars. Rest two months are kind of cool, kind of fun to have a car that performs better than the Stockman’s because the dirty little secret that’s now pretty much exposed is that all these muscle cars in the sixties were horrible to drive.

They didn’t turn corners. They didn’t stop where the darn, and they really weren’t that fast. TRX SI would smoke any of them in, in a modern market. Restore modding them into, you know, better tires, better brakes, better suspensions, um, it’s still getting the look. It comes down to this in my perspective. Now there’s a [00:57:00] point of idolatry with automotive shapes is that you can just idolize the way the shape looks.

The way I do a C2 Corvette, split window singray or the Tornado. I love the shape. And for me having one fifth scale model of these cars, it would be 90 percent of the enjoyment of ever having it because driving some of these cars is not, driving a C2 Corvette is not a lovely experience. They’re just lovely to look at.

So there’s a golden calf Moses moment of they’re great to look at. They’re not that great to own.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m right there with you. I mean, if I had to choose, you know, if you told me, Oh, a C2 Corvette, especially a split window, I would respond and say, give me a Bowtail Riviera instead. It’s a bigger car. Yeah.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah.

It’s

Crew Chief Eric: a cool car, right? You know, and you can have a lot of fun with that and not have the whole stigma that goes along with owning a Corvette, you know,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: You don’t have to have the old chains and the open shirt, you mean?

Crew Chief Eric: And the new balances, right? That’s

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: right. That’s right.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s talk a little bit about tuning engines for performance.

There’s a lot of black magic there too. I mean, in the old days, Yeah. With a [00:58:00] carburetor, you know, put your screwdriver to your ear, you know, things like that. It was a lot different than with a fuel injected engine. Like is in the Miata, some of these bolt ons that people advertise, I mean, you see all the time, guys like mighty car mods, the Aussies are always proving how some of this stuff, people are just wasting their money.

The stock air box flows better air than, you know, your filter. Because Norman designed it that way.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah. And I think that switch flipped around 1990, Miata came out, the aftermarket started to decline in its ability to make cars better. And that comes from, as I said, Mazda engineers, when they went through the B series engine, put the twin cam engine on it, cross flow head, 10 to a half to one compression ratio.

The cams are perfect. When the cars came out, everybody tried to make cams. Everybody tried to make. Things to make it faster. It just didn’t work. There was nothing to do it. We dynoed an engine and found out that it was running 11 and a half to one air fuel ratio and 7, 000 RPM. You can’t do any better than that.

Why chip it in the realm where the emissions were being tested. It ran stoichiometric and ran perfect air fuel ratio and made perfect [00:59:00] emissions at part throttle at 3, 500 RPM, but you floor it at 5, 000 RPM and you had a perfect map. Perfect ignition timing, perfect fuel. There was nothing to improve.

There has never been a successful chip made for an A and B Miata, et cetera. Cause Mazda knew what they were doing by 1990. Everybody figured it out. Even the factory header can be improved upon, but it’s a three to four horsepower change. It’s not a, in the sixties, you could get 50 horsepower out of a Nova by just.

Change in a manifold and put them on some mufflers. Those days are long behind us, but the aftermarket keeps churning the activity and people are very optimistic about what will make their car faster. But it really moved outward from the core of the engine to where when only two came out in 96, it was a cat back system and an air filter.

And that was really all you could do to a car to make any better. And that might give you 10 percent company. I started in 94 receiving superchargers that later became Jackson racing superchargers and was picked up by Moss motors. It became from that frustration. Was the only way to make any more power was to actually force induce the engine.

And I was not a fan of [01:00:00] turbos because they’re nonlinear response. And my, what I said previously about on a track day, when you put in 10 percent more throttle, you should get 10 percent more power and a turbo will give you 20 percent more power. And it’s really hard to hit your apexes when you can’t control the linearity of your power delivery.

So Eaton was making the roots for GM and Ford. And I went to their factory and. A Georgia, I was living in Atlanta at the time, went to Athens, Georgia, and I said, the Miata needs a supercharger. We actually had, I packaged one in one of my drawings for the original Miata, right where the power sharing pump, we were gonna put a supercharger, there’s room for it, et cetera, et cetera.

People slammed the Miata for not having any power. Only explain that for a moment. The in a Miata came out with 116 hundred 20 horsepower. For insurance reasons. In 1986, the C-R-X-S-I in Southern California was a hundred dollars a month to insure for a 16-year-old. And that was more than the car payment bills were being affected by it.

So Mazda said, we can’t make this car go crazy. And Mazda, we actually met with Nationwide and State Farm and said, how do we keep the insurance low on this car? And it used to be the headlamp lid on the Miata was 18. [01:01:00] The front bumper was 50 bucks or whatever. It was all the Made to be cheap to fix. So the insurance rating would be low and the cars are cheap to insure, which is actually an interesting story in the Miata.

Um, the NA Miata got dinged on a zero to 60 because you have to shift out of second to get to 60. It’s zero to 58. 5 is really fast. It’s like, I think high sevens, but that shift takes you to the 9. 2 range. And for the 1. 8, the NA8. They made it so that it would go over 60 in seconds. So you’d have to do that shift.

And that got it down to the seven, eight range. I think

Crew Chief Eric: a little bit of trivia there, right?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah. If it had been 150 horsepower car, it would have had to see our XSI category and it couldn’t have been sold. It would not have sold at the rate because people couldn’t afford it or only older, wealthy people, you know, it wouldn’t have gotten into the group.

We want it, which was a smaller crowd with younger people. What we said was let’s let the aftermarket make it more powerful. So back to Eden, I went to them and they said, we don’t make a blower small enough. You need a 45 cubic inch blower supercharger. We only make a 62 for GM. And I said, well, what if I paid for the [01:02:00] tooling to make a 45 cubic inch unit?

And they said, okay, we could take the Buick unit and cast a new housing. It’s got the rotors down. You’ll pay the tooling and guarantee that you’ll buy 50 a month. We’ll do it. And I went, well, okay. 50 months is kind of a lot, but let’s do it. So I threw my hat across the river and signed up for that contract.

And we created Sieben superchargers with Jim Downing, the Mazda racer. And it took off with gangbusters. People went crazy because they were getting 40 percent more power and something they could bolt on in 90 minutes or a couple hours in an afternoon without drilling up their car. And it was totally reversible.

We got a carb approved and it was a beautiful system that Eaton helped us engineer. And that was 40 percent more power. You get 160 horse out of your NA Miata and it became a wonderful car to drive. In a eight cars with a 1. 8 liter and a Torsen and a supercharger. Fenneman has one. He drives it more than he drives a 911.

It’s actually almost as perfect car. And that’s where the Indy has become. The Indy is 160, 180 horsepower, 1000 telegram range car. That’s a really great formula. Short wheelbase, lightweight car with high power. Aftermarket ran just into a log jam when OBD2 came out. [01:03:00] And aside from throwing the malfunction alive in the dash, also just, there was nothing to do on the inside of the engine to make more power.

Crew Chief Eric: So, I have a pit stop question to ask you before we move on to our sort of last segment. You being the engineer, you’re in the design room, and two drawings are slid to you as the decision maker. And one of them is the Porsche 959, and the other is the Ferrari F40. Which do you choose to move forward with?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Hmm, the 959, because it can be made into a road car. And that’s what my 964 is. I have a C4 964, so it’s a 959 underneath. The 959 is a lot more difficult to make than the F40. The F40 is a race car, and its styling is, in my case, not as beautiful into my eye. Even though the 959 is very Teutonic. If you’re asking which one would I want to develop, the 959 would be a bigger challenge.

The F40 is a Le Mans prototype with a body on it.

Crew Chief Eric: That was a very, very well put answer. And I want to tell you that you are in an exclusive club of people that have chosen the 959 over the [01:04:00] F40. So that number is not very

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: big. Uh, the 959 could have air conditioning and wipers. The F40 barely had, I mean, it, it was.

But that’s the

Crew Chief Eric: beauty of the F40 is it doesn’t have all that stuff. I mean, granted, I mean, the argument is always, Same. The 9 59 is technologically superior. Yeah. But as I’ve said before, when the F 40 was introduced, it was like when fire was presented to the cave people. Right? Yes. Right. It’s, it just lights you up inside.

Right. I

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: agree. I agree. And I’ve never driven an F 40, but I believe I would be faster around Reen in a 9 59 than an F 40.

Crew Chief Eric: More than likely.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: I have a Ducati motorcycle that’s way over my head and abilities as a street rider, I know that sometimes too much is just too much.

Crew Chief Eric: And then I 59 was space age technology.

I mean, the all wheel drive, it was based on the Audi Quattro system and a bunch of other things, and it’s there to save you, you know, in that respect, compared to the F 40, which is just completely barbaric in comparison, right? Well, no,

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: and that’s right. It was, it’s a race car. It’s like, you, you can’t hurt yourself in this car.

Please [01:05:00] try not to, but you will. It’s funny that my, my nine 64 C4 cargo has that system in it. It has the four aft and lateral G sensors and the whole PDAS system that luckily you can defeat. Because it’s really irritating to try to drift the car, not drift, but to even get the yaw angle out to three degrees.

You can’t do it. It will not let you get the yaw out. And that’s 1991. And now the driver assist stuff drives me absolutely bonkers. I’d have to shut it off.

Crew Chief Eric: The difference between your 964 and 959 is the 964 uses the synchro system from the Volkswagen. So it’s a viscous, hauled back seat. Right. That’s right.

The 959 was the Audi Quattro. Quattro backwards, which is why I always joke that the 9 11 is nothing more than a front wheel drive with five reverse gears.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Eric. I love that. That’s excellent. Well, my daily driver is a 3. 2 liter Audi Quattro wagon. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: nice. I

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: haven’t turned around the other way in that car.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m old school. We’ve had seven coops, two of which were U are Quatros. [01:06:00] Oh no. I owned an 80. I owned an 83. That was my car in college. Oh, Quatro, you’re killing

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: me. What a car. . Oh. We had one of those at Mazda and we just, we all fought for it. We all, every weekend. Wow. Anyhow, as, as

Crew Chief Eric: you know. one, the anemic 165 horsepower that the 10 valve five cylinder turbo made.

Yeah. It’s not enough for this weight of that car. 2, 800 pound car, 3000 pound car at the time, which is heavy.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Oh, but what a car.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned earlier, you’re not a big fan of EVs. And you know, we’re talking about tasteful retro mods and things like that. And people are now starting to put EV power plants into some of the old cars.

You hear about it all the time. The latest. Aston Martin abomination that’s going to have a Tesla power plant, you know, things like that. I’ve noted that you’ve said before the ridiculousness of autonomous driving and EVs. I want to get your take on what we call the evolution here at Brake Fix.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yes. I like it.

You know, I have to relax. I have to make room for everybody and be all inclusive for maybe, let’s say a [01:07:00] number, 70 percent of the people that treat a car like an appliance, no different than their microwave. Let them have their autonomous driving, but don’t make every car have it. Because Decker

Crew Chief Eric: can start making cars soon, you know, it’s all good.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah, let’s just all have taxis and Ubers. We don’t even need cars. I actually rented a car in Key West out of Miami. I rented a Hyundai with autonomous driving and it was actually okay in traffic. So if I lived in L. A. I could see the entertainment value of not reading a book, but just watching the car do its thing as it got me to work, but I don’t drive a car for community.

I drive a car for entertainment. All my cars. I try to drive a different car every day to work so that I can keep the fleet going and the challenge of and you know, or the motorcycle or something. The motorcycle you have. Four axes of freedom in a car. You have two or three axes of freedom. That’s the involvement.

It’s like, do you want to go dancing? You don’t want to watch people dance on TV. And the point is I’d rather go dancing and that’s what car driving is for me, it’s dancing. The more we numb it down, I think autonomous driving is for people who don’t like to drive and don’t want to drive and see it as a necessary evil.

And this is rather the unpublic [01:08:00] transportation. Cause that’s what they’re trying to do. They’re making a car into a public transport device. It’s dislodged from a railroad track.

Crew Chief Eric: Total recall foreshadowed this. They called it Johnny cab.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: You see, Hollywood is always thinking ahead. We should get Sidney to come back from the grave and help us with the future.

Crew Chief Eric: EVs are interesting. You know, we’ve talked to a bunch of people. I’ve been able to coach in a few myself and it has that roller coaster factor. It’s like we get to the top and then we crest and woo, and then the ride’s over because they just flatten out. They completely plateau. So it doesn’t have the same experience.

Ice car would have, but there has been some progress made in alternative and synthetic fuels. We hear about it coming from Porsche and other brands. I got really excited about hype. Now. I know it means that we can’t have manuals anymore. If we go down the hybrid route and I’m still a dinosaur, I love driving manual cars, but I saw the potential when they said hybrid and I went, Oh, great.

This is an opportunity for us to capitalize on some legacy technology that comes from the train world, like diesel electric hybrid. But [01:09:00] unfortunately, diesel gate ruined that for all of us.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Yeah. It surprises me that it killed it that much, but yeah, that did kill it. So

Crew Chief Eric: no 200 miles to the gallon diesel electric hybrids, because that would have been ideal, right?

How far could you go with that little generator humming at 600 RPM delivering 240 volts to that electric power plant, right? It’d

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: be perfect. But you’re, you’re right, Eric, hybrids all the way to goes a few comments on that. I teach automotive power plant design at the local university, and it always comes up, will the IC engine survive?

And it certainly will. And many applications, airplanes for one and tractors on the farm. Some guy who owns 5, 000 acres is not going to drive 20 minutes back to get a charging system for his tractor. And there’s certain applications where it has to stay, but it’s like the Prius equation, people buy Prius, Prius, Prii, what do they say?

The. That takes care of that market and leaves gasoline to the rest of us. Fine. Buy your Teslas, buy your EVs, buy your hybrids. That leaves gas for the rest of us, as long as there’s a market. We’re doing 300 million gallons of gasoline a day. That [01:10:00] river of commerce isn’t going to change easily, but the hybrid gives you no range anxiety.

It gives you a way to limp home, even if it’s not limping, you’re getting home. I have nine children. I would never have an EV because if somebody calls at three in the morning and I’ve got to go to the hospital and my EV is half charged and the hospital’s too far away, I mean, what? I’m not going to go camping in an F 150 electric lightning because I can’t recharge it at the top of the mountain, but for a segment of the market.

The million and a half people that bought Priuses that just use them as tools and commuters is fine. I think we’re going to have the co exist bumper sticker only meant for the, the effectiveness of this automotive market. Let’s all co exist. Some people want their hybrids. Some people want their EVs. Let us keep our ICE engines.

Crew Chief Eric: Those of us with ICE engines, ICEs, are we going to be like the Amish off to the shoulder, you know, doing our thing as the EVs go by? But all jokes aside, I feel that the ice power plants will become very equestrian for those that can afford the gasoline because gasoline prices will go up as demand goes down.

[01:11:00] Therefore, it will be like having horses in a stable and you’ll go out riding on the weekend at your country club, which will be the racetrack.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Possibly, but the one thing that, so here’s a model of this. Look at leaded gasoline in the 70s. Catalytic converters came in in 74. You can still buy leaded gasoline up to 1985 or later.

So I heard it was a couple of

Crew Chief Eric: years ago, actually. You could

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: actually buy it now at racetracks. Yeah. But the point was it was very socialist wise because poor people can’t afford the new technology. They’re driving old cars now, old cars last. actually much longer. A Camry now has 300, 000 miles. So a poor person can’t be ostracized from society by having to pay too much for gasoline.

So I put some faith in the powers that be that will keep gasoline affordable. To be frank about it, the lower class is going to have these IIC engines for 20 more years. There’s a little bit of hope in that. The other hope is that 5 a gallon or 4 a gallon gasoline has reached a, I think a very high rate when it should be about half of that if we were to stabilize the world economy.

But there’s synthetic fuels, e fuels coming that now don’t look that unaffordable when you’re [01:12:00] paying 120 a barrel. There’s a shifting moment for it. What I teach my students is hydrogen is the dream. IC engines love hydrogen. Hydrogen is a perfect fuel. It’s just extremely dangerous in some categories.

But it’s a beautiful solution to keep our piston engines. And right now, everything we have with piston engines work because factors are tooled for V8s or W6s or whatever you’re going to make. The factors are tooled for pistons and bores. Pistons and bores work really well. Sidebar rotary engines work phenomenal at hydrogen, but all these things we make and what we package or what work, even hybrids all work with pistons and internal combustion engines.

And the power density can’t be denied unless there’s some breakthrough technology right now, a gallon of gasoline, it takes three times as much battery space to do what one gallon of gasoline does. I believe

Crew Chief Eric: 6 kilowatt hours to one gallon of gasoline.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Something like that. You could, you could tell me you did the math on that one.

I don’t have that number memorized, but I’m sorry, but yeah, it’s just, it’s huge. And so the other problem with hybrid, I love hybrids, but the problem is you take a gasoline car [01:13:00] and then you find a way to package electric motor and a battery system and a battery management system and cut out a couple of cylinders.

So it’s not an easy thing to do because you had to first design an IC engine vehicle and then find room for more things. So for sports cars and small cars, it doesn’t really work. An SUV, a Yukon or a Tahoe could be a hybrid all day long and nobody will know. And it does get them in to be a 30 mile per gallon range kind of a vehicle.

If you do the math, uh, Chrysler town and country minivan, 70 miles an hour in Nevada desert with no headwind takes 40 horsepower. And so all you need is a 40 horse engine. So you can take a hybrid vehicle, take a Prius engine, which is a 60 horse engine and put it in that. And you’re fine. And you use the battery backup for climbing hills and passing.

And so that equation works really well. It’s 1950 train guys, General Electric and GM’s division. Everybody figured this efficiency equation out real easily. And maybe diesel will make a comeback when the new cycle gets off of Volkswagen’s case. But, but you’re right. I mean, but Skyactiv Mazda [01:14:00] has.

Skyactiv is at 42 percent efficient, diesels are 45 percent efficient, but the Skyactiv gasoline engine can reach 42 percent efficiency in its sweet spot. So we’re getting with nine speed transmissions to a point where we can get gas engines to be quite efficient.

Crew Chief Eric: So you brought up something really cool actually.

And we don’t get to talk about technical things like this too often on this show, but I want to bring up the sky active. Most people that do know what it really is, the Atkinson cycle engine or what I call the wobble crank. I would. I would love for you to explain in layman’s terms to our audience what the Skyactiv is all about and how it works and how it differs from the standard piston engine.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: There’s a couple different versions of it, but basically let’s touch on what you’re saying first by Atkinson. So Atkinson was a guy motivated by greed in the late 1800s because he wanted to get around auto’s patents. And auto had the force cycle engine all locked in. And so Atkinson realized that if he did a monkey motion crank shaft mechanism, he [01:15:00] could have a longer expansion stroke.

That is when the gasoline explodes and pushes on the piston, that stroke can be made longer if you decoupled yourself from the crankshaft in an imaginary world, it can be longer than the compression stroke was and every engine in the world, the compression stroke pushes the air up. You have the explosion and the explosion pushes the piston right back down on bottom dead center and they are equal distance.

The stroke is always the same. Atkinson got his patent by making a monkey motion crankshaft that made the expansion stroke longer. Right now, the exhaust valve opens when there’s about 70 or so PSI in the cylinder, and he was purporting that capturing that 70 PSI. would give you more power. Wait until there’s 10 PSI in the cylinder and capture those 60 PSI, the area under that curve could give you some extra power.

And that is a great theory and it works. Um, what doesn’t work is the monkey motion crankshaft. So now what we have is fake Atkinson’s and fake Miller’s. Well, Miller actually is real. Miller is an Atkinson cycle with a supercharger. So let’s walk through the progression. You’re taking an Atkinson cycle with a longer expansion stroke and you fake it.[01:16:00]

By just having a shorter compression stroke by not closing the intake valve at the right moment. If you leave the intake valve open too long, they always close after bottom does center. But if you leave it open way too long, then your compression stroke doesn’t start till the pistons much further up its stroke.

Now, by comparison, the expansion stroke is much longer. So it’s a fake Atkinson, but that’s what the EPA is allowing people to call Atkinsons. The problem with that is it doesn’t really breathe really well, but that is more efficient. But you kind of wasted the first part of your compression strobe. So it’s not that efficient.

Motorcycle comes in, which is where you put a turbocharger or supercharger on the system and force more air in. So that very short intake circuit you had now is compensated for its being handicapped and you catch back up. Like shoving in enough moles of oxygen to make it pretend like it had the full stroke.

That’s a Miller. Now Mazda took that and kept going when they built the Miller cycle engine in the millennia, they proved that a Miller cycle could be made more efficient. And the millennia for V6 got 32 miles per gallon or some phenomenal efficiency. And they were in the high thirties. percent efficiency [01:17:00] in their sweet spot.

And this is in the nineties. So the sky active takes that even further. And the ultimate iteration is to have an engine that doesn’t use a spark plug. I believe

Crew Chief Eric: that’s called a diesel

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: diesel engine. Exactly. So back to the diesel, we’ll get one past the media. We’ll have a diesel, but on gasoline, what it is, is we have a homogenous charge in the chamber and you let it blow up.

like a diesel by sheer pressure and temperature. The pressure and temperature are made by a turbocharger or supercharger and you let it blow up just because you’ve agitated it so much that the gasoline is going to go off. Now gasoline is very volatile so it’s very hard to time that perfectly. Where in one version of the Skyactiv, they’re using a spark assisted compression ignition.

So it’s like a diesel with a spark to force the timing to be at the right moment.

Crew Chief Eric: So like an anti lag where you would put the spark plug somewhere else. And backfire into the system

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: in a way. Yes, exactly. So you’re just, you’re forcing the issue. You can’t trust the compression to time it exactly. Right.

You have to have your timing in modern world within, you know, one or two degrees to [01:18:00] get the efficiency you’re looking for. There’s so much heat getting running out of the cylinder and things going on in the intake track. You can’t always time compression ignition. You can in a certain zone, but you can’t do it over the whole driving cycle.

Crew Chief Eric: I think it’s so funny that we come up with these really creative ways to do things that could be solved very simply. And part of the problem we’ve had with the efficiency of engines, I have to give the Americans credit where credit is due. It’s all about gearing, right? Big, lazy V8s making 160 horsepower and can’t get out of their own way.

But they’re strapped to some super long gears. But then you get in a Volkswagen and the German mentality is, I don’t want to downshift to pass, so we’re gonna put four 10 gears in it. It doesn’t make sense, right? If you put a double overdrive on a four cylinder, you’re gonna get 40 miles to the gallon even 30 years ago.

Right? I mean, there are some engines that will surprise you that are quite old. The five cylinder normally aspirated Audi motor was getting over 30 miles to the gallon in the early eighties. It had long gears in it instead of these like wind them up toy gear. So there’s a big [01:19:00] compromise there. And I think we’re making up for the feeling of torque with all sorts of really cool, you know, inventions, because that’s inevitably what we feel.

And I hate to say you get in a Miata and you’re like, it’s kind of torqueless. It

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: is. And for the reason we mentioned earlier about the insurance issues, when you do have that very, very tall, you know, it’s like the nine 14, you’re nine 14, the thing’s doing 3000 RPM at 75 and it’s gutless. So it’s fine. You lose performance, but you get efficiency.

I was able to get 40 miles per gallon out of my Datsun five, 10. In 1979, by 60 PSI on the tires, disconnecting the secondary carburetor, advancing the timing to like 60 degrees before top dead center, doing all kinds of crazy things that you shouldn’t be doing. And yeah, the engine would have blown up had I taken it out of that zone, but I got 40 miles per gallon.

I don’t have a car that made 30. Otherwise there’s ways to do it. So we go back to the 40 horsepower that a minivan takes to get down the highway. That’s where the hybrid does solve that issue for saving all the fuel and saving the planet, for the people that think that’s going to do it. Electric vehicles aren’t [01:20:00] really the answer because all they do is relocate pollution from city centers.

You’re just now moving the pollution out to the power plant, which may be coal in the United States. If you’re in Canada where it’s all nuclear or whatever, in a country with nuclear power, There’s a different argument for our country. EV is not really the answer. People think it is, but it’s not a zero emission vehicle.

It all comes down to how do you make the family traveling to Disney world from Atlanta on that eight hour drive? How did they get that minivan or Yukon XL full of kids to Disney world at an affordable price in a way that the driver’s not just going to hate what he’s driving. And maybe that’s the insidious plot behind autonomous driving.

Because if you don’t accelerate the past, because your little computer doesn’t let you, maybe you’ll be very happy with 40 horsepower. Maybe that’s it. They’re going to neuter all our cars and make them autonomous because they don’t want horsepower.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go. Oh my

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: gosh.

Crew Chief Eric: What was that old song? I like to drive 55.

You’re going to enjoy it.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Well, I was around when the 55 was implemented. That was, that was fat. So until they bring that back, I know things aren’t really that bad. Because [01:21:00] Nixon put that in place due to the, you know, the oil crisis. And we were all sitting in line trying to get fuel. Until we see it that bad again, then I’m not that worried.

Yeah. Well,

Crew Chief Eric: Norman, I have to say this has been a lot of fun, but I want to give you the opportunity. Any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Two things. A fascinating project I’m working on now is a replacement, an evolution of the IC engine, where we’re replacing the poppet valve with a rotary valve, which has been tried for a hundred years, but has been perfected by, uh, Engine development team up here in race city, uh, North Carolina, Morrisville, and some engine developers hired me a couple of years ago.

And we actually are able to make much more power through higher volumetric efficiency than the poppet valve can allow because the poppet valve gets in the way. Now we’re running high compression ratios, super high volumetric efficiencies, great power densities. So the comment is that the IC engine is not dead.

There’s a lot between Skyactiv, what Mazda is doing. We’re seeing 30, 40 percent more power density in the engine with this valve we’re working on. It’s pretty interesting to see what can be done as we continue to apply ourselves to [01:22:00] it. It’s kind of like saying the telephone in 1970 was fully evolved and never going to get any better.

And look where we are now with our iPhones. So I think as we continue to work on IC engines, we can continue to make them more and more and more efficient. And shout out for certainly to Dean Case, who has often been a great friend and an old work cohort, introduced the two of us. And Dean’s just got a great career.

He’s had a dream. We’ve all, a lot of us have a dream job. You have a dream job. We’re all very blessed. But Dean’s just a great guy and he loves to put interesting people together. He’s like a collector or a filter for interesting people. I’m glad he put us together. Not that I’m so interesting, but I found you fascinating.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Professor Garrett known to many of us around the paddock. It’s just Norman is a native of North Carolina with an engineering degree from Georgia tech, where he has also served as an adjunct faculty member. He is currently professor in the motorsports engineering school at UNC Charlotte, and the director of engineering at BazTech, an engine development company.

And if you want to learn more about Norman, you can check him out online by reading some of his most interesting articles on Hagerty. I’m sure [01:23:00] there’s more coming or reaching out to us for more information on how to get a hold of him. And that said, Norman, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show.

This has been an education. It’s been an absolute blast. And thanks for taking the time to share some stories with us and with our audience.

Prof. Norman H. Garrett III: Oh, it’s been fun. And it’s always fun to talk cars with smart people like you and your audience. All right. Take care.

Crew Chief Brad: Bye now.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to [01:24:00] continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Meet Norman H. Garrett III
  • 01:33 Norman’s Early Passion for Cars
  • 05:25 First Cars and Early Experiences
  • 12:35 Journey into Automotive Engineering
  • 20:04 The Birth of the Mazda Miata
  • 30:18 The Evolution of the Mazda RX-7 and Miata
  • 31:33 The Decision Behind Miata’s Engine Choice
  • 33:44 Driving Experience and Design Philosophy
  • 36:38 Miata’s Popularity and Customization
  • 42:25 The Future of Miata and Its Legacy
  • 44:27 Comparing Miata with Other Sports Cars
  • 54:52 Restoring and Modifying Classic Cars
  • 57:59 Carburetors vs. Fuel Injected Engines
  • 58:24 The Decline of Aftermarket Performance
  • 59:45 The Rise of Superchargers
  • 01:00:35 Miata’s Insurance Strategy
  • 01:03:11 Porsche 959 vs. Ferrari F40
  • 01:06:26 The Future of Autonomous Driving and EVs
  • 01:09:23 The Evolution of Internal Combustion Engines
  • 01:21:07 Closing Thoughts and Shout Outs

Bonus Content

Great reads on Hagerty! 

A few things to know before stealing my 914 by Norman Garrett

Right Seat: Confessions of an on-track driving instructor by Norman Garrett

Learn More

Norman’s latest project: VAZTEC

With strong roots in the racing industry, Vaztec has over 150 years of collective knowledge and experience in engine technology and related development. Vaztec researches, develops, and commercializes its novel technology leveraging their resources and capabilities for the benefit of all. The company is focused on technological innovation to advance the lifespan of IC engines. 

Their success is achieved with a focus on:

  • Advancing technology maturity and validating key benefits
  • Securing strong partnerships to accelerate commercialization
  • Reinvesting in R&D with a focus on continuous improvement

Despite popular myth, the Miata wasn’t a copy of the Lotus Elan. “From an engineering standpoint, there’s not one iota from it,” Norman insists. “We started from scratch. The real feat was building a 1,000 kg car that could pass a 30 mph crash test.”

Mazda’s team even faxed Norman’s discovery that convertibles were still legally exempt from rollover regulations – reviving the dream of a true roadster.

Photo courtesy Norman Garrett

Designing Beauty from All Angles

Norman’s reverence for automotive design is palpable. “It’s very hard to make a three-dimensional object gorgeous,” he says. “God does it well with horses and giraffes. Humans? Not so much.”

  • Norman H. Garrett III
  • Norman H. Garrett III
  • Norman H. Garrett III
  • Norman H. Garrett III
  • Norman H. Garrett III

He praises the Jaguar E-Type, Ferrari 275 GTB, and even the C4 Corvette for their timeless beauty. “There’s not a bad angle on a C4,” he says. “Drop it into a 1940s car show and people would go crazy.”


Why Not a Rotary Miata?

Mazda was deep into rotary engines at the time, but Norman and the team insisted on a four-cylinder. “We wanted the raspy note, the vibration, the character,” he explains. “Rotaries are great, but they don’t communicate the way a twin-cam does.”

Photo courtesy Norman Garrett

Spec Miatas, Superchargers, and the Aftermarket

Norman’s love for the Miata extends to its racing legacy. “We designed it for the fifth owner- the kid mowing lawns who buys it for $500,” he says. He even developed the original Jackson Racing supercharger to give the Miata a 40% power bump without sacrificing drivability.

As for spec racing setups that stiffen the suspension? “We designed it to roll,” he says. “Body roll communicates to the driver. Clamp it down and you lose the soul.”


EVs, Hybrids, and the Future of Driving

Norman is no fan of EVs. “It’s like listening to your favorite song on mute,” he quips. He prefers hybrids and hydrogen as the future of internal combustion. “The IC engine isn’t dead. We’re working on rotary valves that boost volumetric efficiency. There’s still magic to be made.”

Norman’s legacy is more than just a car – it’s a philosophy. “We just wanted a dozen cars for ourselves,” he says. “The fact that there are over a million on the road means we did something right.”

Whether you’re restoring a 914, autocrossing an NA, or dreaming of a fifth-gen Miata, Norman Garrett’s story reminds us that great cars aren’t just built – they’re imagined, engineered, and loved.


The following content has been brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, Crowdstrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School.

Brake Smarter, Not Harder: A Deep Dive into Performance Braking with Porterfield’s Wendy Charlier

When it comes to motorsports, the mantra is simple: better brake pads, stickier tires, and more seat time. But what happens when you go beyond the basics? In this episode of Break/Fix, we sit down with Wendy Charlier, General Manager of Porterfield Brakes, to unpack the science, myths, and must-knows of performance braking.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

Porterfield Brakes traces its roots back to 1986, when prolific racer Andy Porterfield partnered with Ferodo Racing to bring high-performance brake pads to the U.S. market. Over the years, Porterfield evolved into a trusted distributor and manufacturer, offering a wide range of friction materials tailored for motorsports.

Spotlight

Synopsis

The episode is a technical discussion about high-performance braking systems with Wendy Charlier, the general manager of Porterfield Brakes. Wendy explains the basics of braking systems, the importance of ABS, and the science behind various braking terms like fade, warping, and bedding. She emphasizes the technical necessity of proper brake upgrades and maintenance. Key topics covered include the role of brake fluids, the benefits of different types of brake lines and rotors, and the intricacies of cooling ducts. Wendy also debunks myths about low-dust and clean brake pads and highlights Porterfield’s capability to create custom pads for vintage and unique cars. The importance of properly selecting and maintaining brake components to match the car’s performance and track conditions is emphasized throughout the episode.

  • Tell us about Porterfield – Who/When/Where — and explain the “brand name” and company history
  • Talk about how brake systems, ABS, etc work in general. Plenty of folks out there that drive/race cars and have no idea how they work.
  • Let’s explain braking terminology (scroll down for a comprehensive list)
  • Importance of proper/better….
    • Brake Fluid – explain dry/wet/boil temps
    • Brake Lines
    • Brake System (Calipers)
    • Brake Rotors: Solid vs Slotted vs Drilled 
    • Brake Cooling Ducts – Fact or Fiction?
  • Pad Compounds – How to pick the right brake pads?
  • How to “check your brakes” for wear and also optimal performance

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts, but we’ve expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we want to share our stories with you. Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge and information through our podcast, Brake Fix.

When

Crew Chief Eric: you first start out in motorsports, the essentials are always the same. Better brake pads, stickier tires, and more seat time. For those of you who have had the pleasure of riding with one of our distinguished GTM ers known as Crutch, who is on in Season 1, you know that he has a reputation. It isn’t for how fast his cars are, because they aren’t, but he has a reputation for dropping anchor.

He brakes hard, he brakes late, and because he has confidence in his equipment, He can do this. He only has such confidence because he has invested the time and research into upgrading his brakes. New brake pads [00:01:00] alone aren’t the answer because there are a few extras to consider when you’re upgrading your brakes.

And with us tonight is Wendy Charlier, general manager for Porterfield Brakes and industry leader in performance brakes, joining us for a technical chat about what’s stopping you. So welcome to Brake Fix, Wendy.

Wendy Charlier: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Crew Chief Eric: So like all good break fix episodes, we like to start off with an origin story.

So tell us about the who, what, when and where of Porterfield and where does the brand come from in the company history?

Wendy Charlier: So back in the late eighties, Andy Porterfield was approached by Feroto Racing. Andy was a very prolific racer for many years, raced from the fifties until 2012. And they had just asked, Hey, we want to start bringing our pads to America.

Would you be a distributor for us? And from there, he just kept adding on more lines, formulated his own line. And that’s how we get the Porterfield brand. And then we’re just a distributor for a lot of other trusted companies within the [00:02:00] racing industry.

Crew Chief Eric: So when did Porterfield get started?

Wendy Charlier: 1986.

Crew Chief Eric: Longstanding history there, almost 40 years in the business. So that’s really cool. So you guys know everything about brakes.

Wendy Charlier: Well, there’s a lot to know. I definitely take the time to do some research, to get to know the products. How they kind of interact as the new technology comes out. So there’s always a lot more that can be known.

I try to know as much as I can possibly know.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, there’s a lot of people that say, especially in the racing world, what brakes, what good are those? All they do is slow you down. All joking aside, there’s a lot of other people that Don’t really understand how the mechanics of brakes work. I press a pedal and the car slows down.

There’s a lot of different things happening in that simple sequence. So let’s talk a little bit about how brake systems work, how ABS works kind of at a general level to get people up to speed.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah. I mean, it, it is, you know, you press the brake pedal, it pushes a piston into the, in the master cylinder, which pushes the fluid through the brake [00:03:00] lines, whether that’s the hard line at the very beginning or towards the caliper and then the actual either braided line or the rubber hose.

Pushes that towards the caliper, and then that fluid pushes the piston out, which then pushes the pad up against the rotor surface, creating the stop

Crew Chief Eric: and anti-lock braking systems. I mean, they’ve been around since the eighties. How did those exactly work?

Wendy Charlier: So a BS works by releasing and reapplying or pumping the brakes to a wheel in heavy braking.

There’s a sensor that detects any kind of locking within the brake system or at the wheel. It can help benefit if there’s lockup issues or flat spine tires, things like that in racing, but that’s really where like the brake finesse kind of comes into play. And, you know, you would try not to kind of engage your ABS, generally speaking in a race car.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a very true statement. A lot of people nowadays didn’t drive or didn’t grow up with, or don’t drive vehicles that are pre ABS cars. I was fortunate enough to learn on a pre ABS car, which meant that there was another driving technique that is rarely used anymore in [00:04:00] racing known as threshold braking, which is the precursor to ABS, knowing how.

much. You could squeeze the pedal or even pump the brakes to get it to not lock up going into a corner. I still enjoy driving cars without abs. Again, I grew up without those nannies, let’s call them what they are in place, but they are essential nowadays for your everyday car, especially in bad weather conditions and things like that, where it all happens so quickly, it’s very hard to react.

So that being said, you mentioned breaking is more complicated than just pressing a pedal and something happens. There’s a lot of terminology around breaking. Sometimes people have misconceptions about what these terms mean. And so I kind of want to quickly go through what they are, kind of explain what they are, maybe do some myth busting here.

So the terms in question are fade, warping, bedding. uneven wear, boil back, knock back. And then we can even talk a little bit more about how traction control and stability control plays into the braking system.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah. So the fade is basically a loss of [00:05:00] frictional resistance due to meeting the limits or the capabilities of the friction materials that you’re using.

The pedal will remain firm, but more pedal pressure would be needed. And that’s obviously something you want to avoid in a race car situation. So you would make sure that the temperature ranges are matching up to what you’re seeing in your car. So it’s very important to keep getting the data while you’re racing as well.

A lot of people forget to gather data.

Crew Chief Eric: And we’ll talk a little bit more about the heat ranges of pads as we go along, but fade comes from the fact that you’ve basically superheated the pad and it can no longer create any grip on the rotor, right? Correct. So what about warping? That one comes up a lot.

Warping a real thing, can you really warp a rotor?

Wendy Charlier: I think the misconception is that when people say I warped a rotor, they’re thinking that they warped the whole rotor. A rotor is very rigid and very solid as a cast iron piece. When you warp a rotor, you’re warping the surface area, the part that the pad contacts.

Not the whole rotor itself. [00:06:00] Sometimes warping is not exactly what happens. Sometimes it’s uneven pad transfer that people associate with being a warping problem. But rotors can absolutely warp the front surface area, and that’s just again due to rapid heat generation. It just rapidly happens where you’re rapidly rising the temperature beyond its capabilities at a warp.

Sometimes if you duct it wrong, we’ll talk about that probably later, if it’s ducted wrong and you’re cooling portions of the rotor and not other portions of the rotor that can cause some warping because there’s a given tank with the temperature ranges. Causes cracking too.

Crew Chief Eric: And there’s other things that can occur as well.

Like you can create grooves in the rotor surface. I’ve also seen rotors become glazed because if you think about it, as the metals are heating up, expanding, contracting and cooling back down, you’re almost going through like a forging process. If you’ve ever seen like a knife being made, you know, it’s not getting quenched.

That’s probably one of the worst things you can do, probably throw water on the rotors, you know, those kinds of things. But there’s a whole process to the metallurgy there that people often forget. And this is what makes it super [00:07:00] complicated. My pet peeve is when people think. Throw that phrase, my rotors are warped around a lot, not knowing what it really means to your point, that big cast iron rotor, it’s hard to make it a big wavy shape or an exaggerated warp.

There’s something else going on there. In the old days, you could quote unquote, turn a rotor, put it on a lathe, basically to re smooth it out. Is that still the case now with all these specialty cross drilled and slotted rotors and things like that?

Wendy Charlier: You can absolutely still turn a rotor rotors tend to be more throw away items as well.

Especially when we’re talking in a racing field, once a rotor is maxed out or having that issue where you would want to turn it, it’s already done. You’re better off just starting with a new surface and a new rotor altogether.

Crew Chief Eric: So for the guys that go to the track and are changing their pads, they’re in the paddock, you know, Hey, I got my race pads in a box, just got a brand new, they smell great, right?

They throw them on the car. And those of us that have been around the block a few times go, Hey, aren’t you going to bed those in? Inevitably, the driver goes, what, what do you mean [00:08:00] bed my pads? What are you talking about? So why don’t you walk us through what that process is really all about.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah. Bedding is very, very important, especially mostly when you’re talking about race pads, just because in the street applications, a lot of times pads are designed to be pre bedded because obviously skill sets.

For different people are not the same as they would be for track pads. So track pads, very, very, very important to bed in the pads and the specific bed in procedure can vary by brand. They know what’s best for their applications. In our opinion, all bed ins should be a gradual increase in temperature over the breaking styles.

It should never be 100 percent stop from 60 to 0. eight times. That is too rapid. You want to use maybe 60 percent pedal pressure and do 60 to 20 a couple of times and then do, you’re gradually increasing the pressure that you’re applying to the pedal as well as increasing the speed at which you’re slowing.

That way you can gradually bring it up to that max [00:09:00] point. And what you’re doing is you’re laying a layer of. what they call adherent friction. So when you talk about brake pads, there’s two main friction types that are playing a role in your overall braking, which is abrasive friction and adherent friction.

It’s important that you lay that layer of adherent friction down there because it sets the foundation for your braking. Or all future breaking and without that, you’re going to get those uneven pad deposits resulting in vibration and the war being thought process because it’s not ever going to lay properly.

So, abrasive friction breaks down when it contacts the disc much like. Sandpaper is abrasive friction. You scrape it across someplace and it rubs away. And so if you had a pad that was mostly abrasive friction, it would wear out more quickly because it’s just, you know, going along, it needs that adherent friction to wear longer.

Conversely, the adherent friction lays down the thin layer of material on the discs. And it [00:10:00] bonds and reforms and comes apart. If a pad was just adherent friction, or mostly adherent friction, then the temperature ranges would not be as high, because that’s not what it’s really designed for. It’s designed to be the body of the abrasive friction, and help it do its job.

The way that the companies make different friction levels, and different types of pads, and how they feel different. is that mixture of that balance between adherent and abrasive. Obviously, other components that go into it. But those two are the bigger primary factors.

Crew Chief Eric: A top tip from our paddock has always been, even with Porterfield brakes, which we’ve been using for years and other brands, to get that initial glaze, the manufacturing kind of coating off of them.

We grab them and we run them on the asphalt to basically scuff them in before they ever touch the rotor, which inevitably keeps you from running into the back of somebody on the grid because your pedal is kind of soft and the pads don’t grab because they’re not bedded in yet. But having them pre scuffed Actually makes it to your point where then you can go into [00:11:00] turn one and break normally in the next couple of turns and go deeper and go deeper.

And by your third lap, pads are ready to go. You’re ready to rock, you know, 11 tenths or 13 tenths of your driving ability. And the pads will always be there, always be ready. So that’s a top tip from our paddock, scuff those pads on the asphalt before you put them against your brand new rotors. Uneven wear.

You hear that term sometimes people complain, I got uneven pads. I’m going to flip them over. I’m going to put them back in the opposite way. Where does uneven wear come from on the pad?

Wendy Charlier: So generally speaking, it always comes from the caliper. Whether the caliper is flexing, which is what could cause that uneven wear.

Whether the piston is not actuating properly, that could be due to a seal that’s gone bad, any kind of fluid flow issue, things like that, it’s generally related directly to the caliper. Obviously there can be other factors, like you put a caliper kit on there that didn’t come there, like maybe you didn’t put it at the right angle or kind of mount it correctly.

It could be the pads in the formulation that part is very rare. Like [00:12:00] 90 percent of the time when I’m talking to customers and I’m seeing this kind of uneven taper wear, things like that, it’s usually related to the caliper.

Crew Chief Eric: So I’ve noticed this a lot on multi piston calipers. There’s tons of them out there, Brembos, Alcons, Wilwoods, et cetera.

I predominantly run Brembo calipers, Porsche ones on my vehicles. On the leading edge of the pad, The way those Brembo calipers are constructed, the lower two pistons seem to actuate quicker than the top two, just the way the fluid moves through that monoblock caliper. I find myself at the end of the day, having to flip my pads over so that they will wear back straight because my bottom two pistons basically eat the pad more quickly than the top two do.

So something to be mindful of, you know, keeping an eye on your pads and how they’re wearing on your vehicle.

Wendy Charlier: For sure. And then, like you said, flipping them, you know, changing them inner to outer, left to right, those kind of things help you get that more even use out of the whole brick pad.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. You don’t want to throw away the pads, you know, they’re, they’re not totally consumed yet, right?

They’re expensive [00:13:00] enough. You got to keep, you got to get every flap out of them you can. So now there’s two other terms and they kind of go hand in hand. One is lesser known than the other. called boil back. And then there’s knockback. I’ve heard knockback all the time. I had knockback in my BMW, which was super annoying.

So let’s kind of dissect what these two are and what they mean.

Wendy Charlier: So boil back, I was kind of like, Hmm, that’s not a term that I’ve heard in it, but within the industry, there’s inevitably Verbiage that I’m not used to hearing. I’m used to hearing it a certain way. Are you referring to like a vapor lock situation?

Crew Chief Eric: When you get to fade and the pads are getting so hot, it’s transmitting the heat back through the caliper, right? But the fluid is basically boiling back into the master cylinder. And if you have a car that shares a reservoir, like you have a hydraulic clutch system, then the clutch starts to suffer and it gets very, very soft because the fluid is boiling back through the entire system, which is different than knockback.

Wendy Charlier: Not exactly like vapor lock, but it’s basically boiling your brake fluid, which causes a mass amount of problems I got. [00:14:00] Okay. Well, I was like thinking about this in terms of how it would make sense. I knew it had to be overheated. The brake fluid because knockback now that is a very technical type of situation.

And so, and trying to definitely trigger or pinpoint the exact things that you can do to kind of eliminate knockback is a little bit more tricky. Commonly, you would see it coming out of the S’s prior to a turn, and that’s because racing tracks are not generally perfectly flat. So sometimes you’ll have inclines or declines and things like that.

And S’s, as you go through them, you’re shifting the weight of the vehicle left to right, and it causes inclinations. flex. And so then the hub and wheel bearing are deflecting. And so then when that happens, the caliper is mounted on a rigid surface. And so that doesn’t move as much as say the hub and wheel bearing are.

And so that causes the rotor to hit the pads and push them back. So then now the pistons are going back. Then when you go to break the next time, as you [00:15:00] come out of that, you’re not aware. And now everything has pushed back. And so you push the pedal and now the pedal goes to the floor much further than you were anticipating.

And you’re trying to make this turn into the corner. So the best way to kind of help eliminate that is you can typically know as you’re going around the track, which sections are going to have that happen. And you just tap it after you come out of that section prior to going to the corner, that’s causing the issue that’ll get the pads back aligned and where they need to be before you need to make that stop.

Yeah. But obviously looking at how you can better make the system more rigid, whether that’s also getting like anti knockback springs, which are not always something that you can do, depending on the calipers that you’re using, things like that’ll help. It’s worse. The knockback, the larger the outside diameter of the rotor is just because of the size and how much it’ll deflect more than if it’s smaller.

Crew Chief Eric: And your tip was right on the money. For those of us that suffer from knockback, [00:16:00] one of the tricks that we have to learn is how to left foot brake. Getting in preparation, especially going down a long straightaway, something like VIR, Watkins Glen, you’re tapping that brake pedal with your left foot, basically pumping the brakes back up, making sure that your pads are there.

So when you go into turn one at 120 miles an hour, the car actually stops. The first time it happened to me with my BMW was scary, but then I was like, Oh, I know what this is. I know exactly what I need to do. This is annoying, but it is part of driving that car. So, you know, it is what it is. Other BMW owners I’ve met have complained about, man, this car really chews up rear pads a lot.

What the heck is going on? I’ve answered that question probably more times than I’d like to. And it actually goes back to stability control and traction control. So how are those tied to the brakes?

Wendy Charlier: Yeah, again, like you had said, like the nanny kind of system as far as like ABS would be to brakes to traction control is to steering and things like that and controlling how the car is maneuvering and being able to stay in a more controlled [00:17:00] manner than being more loose.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And a lot of these newer systems leverage the rear brakes because they’re not nearly as severe in terms of bite, right? The front end is doing 80 percent of the braking. They use those rear brakes to stabilize the vehicle. So by applying a little bit of break in a corner or applying both, they can settle the car down and keep it from being in a skid or stepping out, things like that.

So folks that have those systems enabled, they’re chewing up rear pads all the time. And so that’s the result of all of that.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah. It keeps it from transferring too much of the weight to the front. But I think a lot of people, admittedly, if I can offer another tip is absolutely put race pads in the rear.

I can’t tell you how many times people are like, ah, it’s the rear. It doesn’t do anything. Absolutely.

Crew Chief Eric: It

Wendy Charlier: does something. It helps to keep the car more balanced. If you have only breaking in the front and the rears just give out, you’re going to get a lot more nosedive and where the pads a lot more, you know, be a little bit harder to steer and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: So since you brought that up, it’s a really good point. A lot of [00:18:00] people are of the idea or the assumption that I need to put the same compound all the way around. And depending on the car and correct me if I’m wrong, you actually want to offset the pads to create a natural bias, especially if you don’t have a brake bias controller to offset the front to the rear.

Wendy Charlier: You’re absolutely correct. Yes. In most cases, I would say you should always go with the front. go with a lesser friction in the rear for many reasons, the balance reason, but also temperature ranges. So the higher the friction, the higher the torque, the higher the temperature range it needs to be to operate well.

So getting that temperature range to six, 700 degrees on a front pad is much easier than getting that in the rear. And you’re not going to get the benefit of that higher friction, higher torque. If it’s in the rear and not being up to temperature, you’re actually going to do yourself a disservice. So having something with lesser friction, A, it keeps the car more balanced and B, that friction level will come in at that lower temperature [00:19:00] that your rear is actually seen.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. Yeah. If you put on, let’s say, Our four E’s are part of field pad all the way around or a DTC 60 from Hawk all the way around. It’s going to be like having ice cubes in the back. If you’re running the same pad in the front, you know, I’ve for years have biased my pads front to back. I always start with an entry level race pad because I want the longevity.

I want the endurance of the pattern. I want to have to change them every 10 minutes, but upfront, yes, I’m running something super aggressive. It balances the car out. It keeps it from doing something weird. And rear brakes also react slower than the fronts because the brake lines are like eight times longer.

So it takes a lot longer for the fluid to do its job, right? So you got to play into these natural mechanics when you’re deciding don’t just buy the same stuff for all four corners. So folks, if you thought that was technical, we’re about to go a little bit deeper and talk about the importance or the betterness of certain parts of the braking system.

So I want to talk first about brake fluid. I have gone through so [00:20:00] many arguments with people about wet and dry and boiling temps and what all that means and what fluid you should use. And I’ll just go by it, press stone off the shelf. You don’t need that. castral SRF that hydraulic fluid you’re putting in there.

But there’s a reason and a season for all of these different fluids. So let’s talk about why brake fluid first and foremost is so important.

Wendy Charlier: So, well, obviously brake fluid is what actuates your equipment. So if you don’t have good brake fluid and you’re not getting the temperature ranges, That you need.

So if you’re boiling the brake fluid, you’re going to get, like you said, potentially the oil back. But also if you have a spongy paddle or something like that, that’s your brake fluid boiling. That’s your car telling you that you’ve exceeded the limits of the brake fluid brake fluid, as we know, is hygroscopic, which means that it just it wants to attract moisture.

It wants to absorb it. from the atmosphere. So that’s why you have a dry and wet boiling point. But what most people don’t understand is that the wet boiling point, while it might be very high, the wet doesn’t come [00:21:00] into effect until it has 3. 7 percent water by volume, which can take a year or two in an OEM type car.

So that’s a lot of moisture that will have been absorbed. So most race cars, generally speaking, will not be seeing a wet temperature. You should be bleeding the system after every race. Ideally, you would be flushing the system. Some people who really go for it, obviously, when we work in a brake company, we would do it all the time, but definitely bleeding out the brake fluid, getting rid of that.

Spent fluid that was in the caliper, things like that. Replacing it with some fresh stuff is always better, but yeah, the boiling point is very important. Mostly dry is the most important again, because you’re not going to probably get it to that 3. 7 percent water by volume. Now, if you get yourself one of those fancy little things that can tell you what your moisture level is, if you’re brake fluid, then by all means, you’re care about the wet boiling point.

Obviously, it’s a factor if you leave it in there for a long time, then you at least know [00:22:00] that the wet boiling point is good and hot. If you overheat and boil the brake fluid, well, I talked about this a little bit ago about vapor lock. Basically, as you boil it, it creates bubbles. It can be trying to push through those bubbles versus pushing through the fluid.

And so the pistons aren’t actually activating because it’s just bubbles. It’s just air being pushed through.

Crew Chief Eric: When you’re choosing your brake fluid, how do you make the determination other than bipedal feel as to what you should be buying? Are there certain ways to gauge the temperatures, things you should be looking at, ways to do analysis and say, Hey, I’m right on the edge.

You know, you never want to be close to red line on anything. So how do you make that decision or what to get?

Wendy Charlier: Knowing what the brake temperatures that you’re seeing within the system, like how hot the caliper itself is getting will tell you a lot about what type of temperature the fluid obviously would not be as high as the caliper is getting most, I would say all of the racing brake fluid Motul 600, 660, anything that’s racing [00:23:00] oriented is always a good place to start and then whether or not you have to adjust Based on the ambient temperature outside, what tracks you’re going to here on the West Coast, you can probably get away with some low level break fluid going up the streets of Willow, you know, it’s just meandering through but like if you’re at Laguna Seca.

You’re going to have to have something like the 660 or the cashroll or something like that. That is very taxi, like road, Atlanta, Sebring, those tracks all require the most of your brake system. So you need to be prepared. The different cars will have different needs and different drivers drive differently.

I think the minimum is putting race quality brake fluid in there. And frankly, they just don’t make any that are up to snuff. You know, if it’s a real racing fluid

Crew Chief Eric: and when you’re looking at the big box store at all the different labels and brands and colors that exist, a lot of people just defer to the DOT number dot 3.4 and dot five.

How do you know which one’s, right? What does that even mean? Most people just go, oh, [00:24:00] bigger number means better. Right? ?

Wendy Charlier: Well, the dot rating is really, it’s, its resistance to moisture. So that’s why dot five is a silicone based fluid because it’s the most resistant to moisture. And so when we’re talking about things not wanting to have a lot of water in there, that dot rating, it’s just department of transportation.

It says that it meets a certain parameter. And so that parameter means that it’s most resistant to moisture and that at different levels, different temperatures and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: Which is great for a classic or collector card that sits a lot. You don’t want to do brake fluid slushes all the time.

But for a race car, the dot number really doesn’t matter. It goes back to that dry boiling temperature again.

Wendy Charlier: Exactly. Yeah. You wouldn’t run silicone because that doesn’t have any temperature properties whatsoever, but it’s just the highest one. And then like three is. Not so great.

Crew Chief Eric: And a top tip that I learned, ask me how I know if you do have a shared clutch and brake reservoir system, try to find a way to separate your [00:25:00] reservoirs.

If you’re running something heavy like Castrol SRF, because you will blow up clutch cylinders left and right, because they’re not designed for the added hydraulic pressure that the upper echelon of racing brake fluids. Produce. So something to keep in mind. Again, ask me how I know. Let’s move on. Let’s talk about the importance of brake lines.

You know, a lot of people say, I got to run out, I got to get these stainless steel braided brake lines. Why?

Wendy Charlier: Well, because the stainless steel brake lines will create a more firm pedal because there’s no flex from with the rubber lines, not to mention the fact that over time, the rubber tends to kind of degrade and heat capabilities and things like that will be different with those as well.

So stainless braided brake lines, if you can get them really makes a difference.

Crew Chief Eric: We talk to all sorts of people all the time about the big brake upgrade, got to get the big brake kit. You know, you talk to a Miata owner, they say the more weight you take out, the stock brakes become the big brake kit. You know, you don’t need it.

There are different schools of thought on what [00:26:00] caliper is the right caliper for your car. Is that really true? Is that a myth? We should be really looking at temperatures and pads and fluids instead of dealing with changing the mechanical part of this. I

Wendy Charlier: think anytime that you’re trying to increase the horsepower of a car, then you should also be looking at the converse side of that and making sure that you’re going to make those good stops.

So I think if you’re running the stock engine and everything on the vehicle is otherwise stock, the original brake calipers that are on there are probably going to be sufficient. Now that can change if it’s You know, a single piston caliper, or it’s that those floating styles that aren’t very rigid and very well at taking that kind of abuse.

And then that’s when you would get into changing the brake system. If you’re a serious racer and you’re very much focused on increasing horsepower and decreasing your lap times and things like that, eventually you’re going to probably run out of its ability to make any other additional changes to your braking system.

As far as. Getting that extra [00:27:00] friction materials help a lot, but can it always be better is the trick. So if you need it to be better, yeah, it can be better. A lot of times better is relative. So it’s obviously very important to look at the piston sizes that you’re getting on the kit. Whatever that you’re getting and make sure that that piston size is going to net you more surface area force than the piston sizes you’re currently running as well as the rotor size is a larger diameter than the current rotor that you’re running because that will also give you more force.

We didn’t touch base on master cylinders and the importance of a properly selected master cylinder. Now, obviously, if you’re running a car, that came from the factory. So your Mazda Miata, your Corvette, the engineers would have selected the proper size master cylinder for that application. But we’ve also talked about when you start changing things and putting different whatnots on there.

I mean, I’ve heard of customers like, Oh, well, I pulled, you know, the front system off of this 911. I pulled the [00:28:00] rear off of this 928 and I slapped it on there. Good to go. But you know, I’m having this pedal issue. And so typically what people don’t think about is when you start changing that, it’s not part of a kit where you’ve discussed with Wilwood or with Brembo or StopTech or somebody like the proper selection of a different master cylinder to go along with the change in the caliper that you’re doing.

Typically, if you, if you’re having master cylinder issues, it has to do with how much fluid it’s displacing. So smaller masses that are required a slightly longer pedal stroke to move the same amount of fluid. So like if you had a one inch, you would have a shorter pedal because it can push way more fluid through the system than a smaller one.

However, you don’t get the same amount of pressure. So you get more pressure with a smaller one. smaller, less pressure with the bigger. So it’s just kind of depending on like, Oh, my pedals firm, but I’m not getting any stopping power. It’s like, well, have a little bit longer pedal and you’re going to get the pressure that you want to make that stop.

So it’s just a matter of figuring out what size would be best for that application as well.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s very [00:29:00] true. And in some of those cases, when you’re doing these big break upgrades, you can get away with swapping out hardware. If it was something that was available from the factory, right? Let’s say maybe you bought the base model Mustang and you go up to the GT breaks.

Well, there’s a really good chance. If you cross match the parts, the master cylinders are all the same from Ford. So you don’t really need to switch it out. It’s when you go from the two pot factory break to the six piston Alcon. Now you have 12 pistons up front that you’re trying to move. You don’t have enough mechanical pressure.

To move all 12 pistons, like you did the four or the two that you had up front. And that’s where the bigger discrepancy comes into play. But generally amongst the manufacturers, Oh, I had the base Corvette and I upgraded to zero six breaks. Yeah. You’re probably pretty safe at that point to make that jump without having to change the rest of the hardware.

Wendy Charlier: Right. Right. So it’s just, it’s just a matter of like one more thing to check. If you’re not getting out of the system, what you’re hoping to get out. These are things that I would recommend, you know, when people are troubleshooting things, that’s one of [00:30:00] the things that I bring up. What size master cylinder are you running?

What’s the setup look like? That kind of thing. And then the last thing that I cannot explain to people enough is make sure that the pad you’re getting from the new kit is at least as thick as your current system. I have had customers who have a 16 millimeter, a 15 millimeter OEM pad, and they switch to a kit that’s 12 millimeters.

And they say, gosh, you know, I put this kid on there and now I’m running through brake pads even more. And I said, well, you done took out six millimeters per caliper and yeah, that’s a lot.

Crew Chief Eric: And nothing else on the car changed, so it’s still as heavy as it was before. And weight does play a major factor into the ability of those brakes to clamp down and slow the vehicle down.

Sure.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah. 3, 000 pound car, even though the brakes are set up larger on a larger car. So like, if you compare like a Miata to like a Cadillac, let’s say, or Corvette even at 3000 pounds, and then the Miata over here at 26, [00:31:00] 24, depending on which model it is, you know, that’s a big difference. And so that the OEM pads show that difference.

That’s why they’re much smaller and different placed and things like that. But yes, then definitely the downforce that is stopping a much heavier vehicle is. It’s going to play a big part.

Crew Chief Eric: And you know what’s funny? You brought up something that conjured a memory from 20 years ago. Now I remember when the original golf R32s came out and they were doing their testing shootouts against the Lancer Evo and the Subaru STI, which came with Brembo calipers from the factory.

Volkswagen presented this 3, 300 pound car with two pot girling side pull calipers like You know, factory stuff and they’re like, it’s out stopping these high performance brakes. And to your point, they had 13 and a quarter inch rotors with massive pads and the clamping force of those twin pot girlings was better than the Brembos because they were running these teeny little pads.

And so again, there’s a lot of mathematics that go into getting these cars to slow down. And I think the overall [00:32:00] sentiment here is that. The big break kit isn’t always the answer. There’s a lot more, you know, weight, the rest of your hardware, all that kind of stuff involved. So take the time to research, talk to other drivers and see what they’re doing and see what has worked and what doesn’t just don’t go by what’s off the shelf and say, this is what I need because it looks cool.

Wendy Charlier: Right. Definitely, definitely ask questions. We encourage people to ask a lot of questions here. We ask a lot of questions of our customers just because it’s real easy to sell somebody 4, 000 kit and call it a day. We would much, much rather communicate with them, give them all of their options and give them an honest assessment.

Even if that means not selling them 3, 000 or 4, 000 kits, if that just means selling them a 200 set of brake pads, it does us a better justice. And I think More companies hopefully kind of feel the same way that we do, you know, it’s, it’s more important to get somebody into the right thing than just sell them the wrong.

Crew Chief Eric: But you end up with customers for life, dedicated, loyal people going on. [00:33:00] Porterfield pads are amazing. I’m going to keep buying them. I didn’t have to do anything else, but I think one of the most contested pieces of the braking system is the rotors themselves, right? We kind of alluded to this earlier. I have come to the school of thought by way of some veteran racers.

Yeah. And you mentioned it, they’re disposable and they always say buy the cheapest ones you can find because all you’re doing is wearing them out. There’s a lot of people that get hung up on aesthetics, right? Oh, the cross drilled, slotted, this and that and upside down and cryo dims and all the geomet and all this stuff.

When you’re racing, I still believe, and somebody correct me if I’m wrong, if you’re listening to this, Cheap is the best solution when it comes to rotors. You want maximum surface area, not these cheese graters.

Wendy Charlier: We always advise against cross drilling. Cross drilling in a racing situation is bad news.

Going to crack, you’re lessening the surface area of the rotor. Like you mentioned, it makes it more prone to cracking. You’ll get the cracks between the holes and you’ll end up having to replace the rotor. Due to that, not because of the wear that you would have. If it was [00:34:00] solid at the most, we recommend slotting, but typically the strongest, most longest wearing, most durable for club racing.

Those kinds of things is going to be just a plain face rotor. Most pads nowadays are slotted. You know, they’ll have a slot in the pad surface, which does the same thing as the slotting on the rotor. It helps release the gases that build up between the pad surface and the rotor surface, so that it gives you a better contact and there’s no buffering involved.

So to speak. And I guess the only part that I probably wouldn’t agree with is the cheapest is always better because there’s definitely quality landmarks for rollers. A cast iron roller is a cast iron roller. Yes, I will agree with you there. However, there are certain standards and certain things like if they’re using recycled metals versus brand new.

So if you’re running like a six, eight hour enduro, even a 12 hour enduro, you’re going to want to get something more high quality so that you’re not cracking in a cheap way. Rotor through the first race or, you know, in the first couple of hours, so to speak,

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, the Miata guys right now are laughing going, well, the expensive [00:35:00] rotor is 17 and the cheap ones, 13.

So, you know, whatever, but I feel your pain on the larger diameter rotors. It gets expensive quickly. Obviously there’s some specialty stuff out there, especially if you’re driving exotics, some of the new Porsches with their, you know, carbon ceramic brakes, all that crazy stuff. I think we’re all in agreement.

The more you do this, the more surface area you can get, the better braking. experience you’re gonna get. And also we’ve seen some nightmare situations with cross drilled rotors, where when they do crack, unlike a solid rotor that cracks, you hear it is bang. And they’re like, all right, it’s busted. All right, let’s go.

We’ll put on a new rotor where we’ve seen entire chunks of rotors fall apart on a cross drill. And then suddenly the car’s in the wall. All because. We had these really cool looking cheese graters on the car. So the last piece of the racing brake system is the cooling ducks. I’ve fallen prey to this argument as well.

Do they really work? Are they hocus pocus? Are cooling ducks worth it? Do they always work or not?

Wendy Charlier: [00:36:00] Fact final answer. Um, much like everything else they work if used properly. In order to have ducting work and do what it’s intended to do, which is to cool the system down, you have to have it plumbed from as low at the front of the car that the nose of the car as low as possible and as close to the centers as you can possibly get it.

Because that’s where the most amount of air is going to be at. And then you need to plummet somehow where you don’t restrict all of that airflow. So sometimes it gets really tight in there and you’re trying to maneuver the hose or whatever you’re using around. and it can collapse and things like that, then you’re going to be restricting the air.

So that’s the first part. The second part is ensuring that the hose is pointed to the back side of the rotor, never the rotor surface area. So not where the pad would be sweeping across. That is terrible to do. because you’ll only cool that section and that will [00:37:00] cause cracking because half of it will be hot, half of it cooler pointed to the inside of the backside of the rotor.

And if you can get a plate to keep that focused in that area. So on a ventilated rotor with it pointed to the back, it’ll fan out the air throughout all of those veins. It’ll shoot up in between the, the caliper and everything. So it’ll cool that part down and pull the rotor from inside out, completely the whole rotor at the same time being cooled down.

That’s when it’ll actually work any other way. It’s not going to do what it needs

Crew Chief Eric: to do. Being pointed closer to the center of the rotor also helps, if at all, to put some air across the wheel bearings as well, right? You try to cool them down so they don’t suffer. The counterpoint to this that I’ve always made is how do you know if they’re really working to your point?

They need to be installed correctly. All this, if you don’t have a way to measure the amount of CFM that’s traveling through that hose, if you’re just getting like a whisper of air, then they’re not really effective. So why even have them? The other counter [00:38:00] argument is look at the design of your wheels.

And people are like, wait, what do you mean? And I’m like, do you remember the old Ronal turbo fans from back in the eighties? The reason they were called the turbo fans is because they were designed to suck air through the wheel and cool down the braking system. So some wheels like team dynamics and others are designed to act as a fan and cool the wheels down because of the geometry of the spokes themselves.

So sometimes that plays into the equation. But also you could generate enough air with the right wheel To push against the air that’s coming through that hose. So there’s a lot of things going on there. What is the answer? I don’t know. I think it’s maybe work with a tuner. Put the car up on some rollers.

Try to push some air through there. See what’s going on. See what the affected temperature difference is. Going back to what we were talking about before. What are our heat ranges? Heat is the enemy here, especially of the braking system. This one’s very complicated. It’s not just bolt on some parts from a kit.

It’s much more intricate, much more subtle in terms of getting it to [00:39:00] work correctly for everybody’s application.

Wendy Charlier: Absolutely. I mean, I think in general, most things that have to do with the cars are, it’s not just one simple answer. Like this is it. And that’s it. There’s nuances. And there’s obviously times and aspects where that’s not going to work.

Like you said, there’s plenty of applications out there that are designed to take in more air. And if you don’t have it plumbed correctly, you could be doing yourself a disservice where you were getting more air naturally in that area. Now you’re obstructing it by trying to have this hose there that isn’t pr So you’re not really get why I say it works if it you can’t get it done pro find another way to make

Crew Chief Eric: the things we left off th going to transition to fo Are the pads themselves lots of back and forth about what is the right pad and how aggressive it needs to be in the torque and the bite.

And there’s all sorts of other terminology that coincide with pads themselves. So let’s talk about the pads, how they’re [00:40:00] constructed. You talked about the adhesive properties and the abrasive properties of the pads, but there’s some drawbacks and advantages also to your stock pad, your mixed use pad and your race pad.

So let’s start off by going through all that kind of stuff.

Wendy Charlier: Stock pads obviously are going to have the least amount of friction and the least amount of temperature range. So, if we’re talking in terms of racing use. They’re going to meet their limits much quicker, probably within a lap or two. They are not designed to be stopped repeatedly at high speeds and creating and generating and keeping in that amount of heat.

It’s just not real world experiences for that. Secondly, I don’t think, in our professional opinion, that there is a good dual purpose pad. It does not exist because again the requirements for street temperatures and friction is completely different than the requirements for track temperatures and conditions.

People say, oh but I’m only doing an HPDE. It’s fine. You know, [00:41:00] or I’m just going to do a track day. You’re simulating race conditions that car doesn’t know it doesn’t have a competitor.

Crew Chief Eric: A good application for a, let’s call it a marketed mixed race pad might be autocross though, where you need sudden stopping and bursts of heat and the pads cool right back down again.

Wendy Charlier: I always just very carefully say Street autocross versus like dual purpose because then that kind of parlays into the track situation. But yes, so like our performance street compound, POC make what they dub as a dual purpose HP plus compound. So that is great for having that higher friction, higher, broader temperature range than say a stock street pad, but not at the level of a track pad.

But with those kinds of things, you get the dust. the squeal and the occasional rotor wear. So if somebody is trying to avoid all of those headaches for their street car, then the HP plus is not as desirable because it’s not going to be great on the track and it’s [00:42:00] not going to be great on the street, but it kind of allows you to move back and forth.

The Porterfield R4S. Can be used for street autocross again because autocross is generating that heat and that friction, but for a shorter amount of time, and then you have more like recovery time after that, if somebody is competitively autocrossing mean that they trailer the car to and from the track, and that’s their dedicated autocross car.

We have our vintage race compound. It’s called our 4 1. We recommend that because it has high friction level at low temperatures. Best for when peaks will be under 1000. And that works really well. I know a lot of the Miata guys, because it’s a lighter weight car, even for road racing, they like the R41 as well.

So lighter cars can use that for road racing, for autocrossing. We do it for vintage racing. But yeah, autocrossing is kind of that special niche kind of market where it can kind of go street or track as long as the temperature range comes i

Crew Chief Eric: we go to the other end of and we start talking abou and we’ll [00:43:00] talk about how between all these.

One of people all the time is do the street. What do you m What do you mean race pads? Like to be hot? They operate at high temperatures effectively. So let’s talk about what it means to get a race pad hot and why they need to be hot.

Wendy Charlier: Well, it goes back to the adherent friction and the abrasive friction technology.

So the adherent friction is trying to do its job, but at 200 or a hundred degrees, it doesn’t work It, it doesn’t put that layer on and smooth it away, like it needs more heat in it to be doing that job. To be laying the layer down and then sweeping it back up. They’re designed to break the bonds, the crystalline bonds at a certain temperature.

And so if you’re not getting it to that temperature to make that reaction occur, then it’s just not going to be what you’re looking for. I know like ST 47 by rebus, it’s very high torque, high friction level pad requires the most out of the braking system. If [00:44:00] you run that cold or drive it on the track, it’ll shudder.

It’ll do all kinds of mean, nasty things. That’s that adherent layer not being able to do it. And so it’s creating that vibration and that uneven pad transfer because you have to run it hot. And that’s just part of mixing in the abrasive friction and the other ingredients where they’re just, they’re designed to react and to change their structures.

at those higher temperatures. So typically when we talk about most high ends, the higher torque, the higher friction compounds, you got to get those by 600 degrees. Like they want to be operating between 600 and a thousand all the time, if not higher to 1500, most of these paths go no problem. And that’s going to be like your DTC 70s, you know, your ST 47s, even 60 likes to be a little bit hotter than most.

So when we talk to customers and we’re trying to figure out what range they need to be in, obviously as a break company, it is our job to know the parameters of every single break pad that we carry, which is what I [00:45:00] go back to saying, like, I’m just always learning. I’m always trying to talk to performance friction, talk to investors, talk to pageant, talk to whoever I can and learn the ins and outs of all their compounds.

So, you know, we definitely have some that work better at the lower end temperatures. Like I was saying, the R41, the Porterfield R4 has good cold friction. It comes in around 200, so it can be used for rears, for those lower heat applications, like performance friction. They like to run real hot too. And just talking to people and seeing.

Seeing how they’re using their pads and what they’ve used before is always really helpful, whether they liked it or disliked it, or I haven’t been raising, I’m new, so like, obviously if somebody is new to racing, I’m not going to throw them into 47 and be like, Hey, sink or swim, buddy. Have a good time.

Those are high friction, high torque. And when we talk about friction and torque, the torque is how quickly that friction responds. And so the higher the torque level of a pad, the more break finesse that you have to put into the pedal. Because once you get those into the [00:46:00] temperature range that they need to be, they’re almost like an on off switch.

So if you treat a high torque pad, like a moderate or light work pad, and you just really mashed into that pedal and try to do a really extreme threshold breaking, let’s say you could overslow the car very easily and flat spot tires and things like that, because it’s going to react. much quicker than a moderately torqued pad.

It’s a matter of knowing what you’re trying to get out of the car, how hard you’re pushing the car, the temperatures that you’re seeing. That’s really important to knowing where to put the most emphasis or what’s mostly needed out of the system. So the more that people know About their expectations, about their car, about how frequently they’re going to use it, what tracks you’re going to, that’s important too, because, you know, I said before, some of these tracks are not very taxing on the brake system and you can get away with something very minimal, but then if their primary track is a track like Road Atlanta or Sabering or something, that’s going to be a very different animal than what they’re going to need for something that’s very forgiving on the brakes.[00:47:00]

Trying to figure it out. And sometimes, you know, you need to have two different sets of pads, you know, for those tougher tracks, you have this, it’s going to work really great. And then for the ones that aren’t run this, because you’re not getting them up to the temperature and that’s why you don’t like your break.

Crew Chief Eric: You bring up a really, really valid point in the sense that understanding what you want to get out of. Quote unquote, the bite or the torque of the pad is important to your driving style as it is to a lot of other things. Because if you’re big on trail braking and you have an overly aggressive pad, especially front and rear, you haven’t biased them right.

It’ll cause that car to do all sorts of weird stuff that you weren’t expecting. You’re like, Oh, this thing handles like garbage. No, it’s your pads. That overbiting in the corner and causing it to just wash out and do all sorts of stuff. So dialing that in, you know, I’ve played with pads for years until I figured out what worked.

I predominantly switch between R4Es and DTC 60s. They’re very similar pads. It depends on what’s available at the time, especially during COVID supplies were low, but I go back and forth, but I know how they [00:48:00] feel. I know what they’re going to give me. I know that where my car is weighted and what I want it to feel like in the corner.

But I also put a slightly more aggressive pad in the back to cause the car to rotate. I want it to be loose in the back on entry, things like that. So again, playing with those pads plays into the setup of the suspension as well. It’s just amazing how this stuff works together. But I think the confusing part is just like when we go back to that scenario about the brake fluid, when you’re looking at all the pretty colors of all the boxes and the fantastic names that they all have.

How do you know the difference, right? Is there a specific go to number? Like if the rated low temperature is 500, you know, you’re into a race pad or is there a clear defining factor that says this is the difference between street mixed and race?

Wendy Charlier: Some companies post temperature ranges, friction levels, things like that.

It gets tricky because over the years there’s been admittedly some temperature graphs that I have seen where I’m like, Hmm. I don’t know about that. I think because if more than one or [00:49:00] two people put out misinformation in their graphs, then now the next person who puts out a graph has to adjust their real graph to match the fake graph that somebody else put on.

So it gets very warped and very confusing because if somebody posts a real one, you’d be like, well, there’s this garbage, but then you run it and you’re like, it’s not, it’s just kind of trying to figure that out. Friction levels, Typically, they should be able to tell you about where they are. Again, like performance friction does not tell us that.

They don’t tell us temperature ranges, generally speaking. They don’t tell us specific friction levels. But based off of testing and what we know and things like that, we can say, well, it’s like this one, which is here. Most stop pads are 0. 2 to 0. 3 friction performance street pads would be more around a 0.

4. And then the race pads would come in between 0. 5 and like 0. 7. It’s kind of like earthquakes, right? Hurricanes or whatever, you know, like they go up exponentially. So the numbers aren’t very indifferent, but you would know based off [00:50:00] of where those are at, where you should be at as far as. What you’re trying to get out of the car, the, the number goes up and the, and so does the temperature range.

Crew Chief Eric: They’re correlative, so that’s good. The other side of this, kind of the darker side, in my opinion, because I, I don’t care what my car looks like when I’m at the racetrack, but there’s a lot of people that do, and you hear all the time. I wanna. Brake pad that doesn’t make any dust. I want my wheels to look spotless all the time.

They’re out there detailing their car. I’m like, we’re at a track, man. You’re going to end up with slag from the tires, junk chips. It’s like, whatever. Right. What is your recommendation on these supposed high performance pads that are low dust or super clean or made of mysterious things like ceramic, you know, and things like that.

Are they, are they for real? Are they for fiction?

Wendy Charlier: For performance street use. Low dust, low squeal pads, or flat quarter filled R4S is, as you described, these mythical creatures who do not, more so when they say don’t dust. Okay, so again, when we go back to abrasive friction, that’s the part that wears [00:51:00] away like sandpaper, right?

So that has to go somewhere. It doesn’t just magically go poof. It’s not a vapor. It’s an actual thing. The way that they kind of get it to be dust free, or I can only speak for us, our dust is a lighter color. So when it comes off of the pad, it’s lighter in color, but it’s also lightweight. So it doesn’t stick to the wheel.

It just kind of goes. into the air like every other brake dust does. So therefore it’s not adhering itself to the wheel. And so then there’s the perception that it’s dust free. It’s not dust. It’s dusting, but it’s not sticking to your wheels where you have to physically see it. And if it does, it’s a very light color and not like super dense and heavy and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: And I won’t name names. Some pads are extremely dirty and the brake dust is very sticky. And I’ve written about it. Now, year after year and something we call the battle against brake dust. So I want to ask your professional opinion. Do you have any [00:52:00] cleaning tips for those of us that suffer from pretty wheels that are sort of ugly all the time due to their brake dust?

Wendy Charlier: Much like everything else, there’s not a clear, concise answer because different wheels have different treatment methods that will work with those wheels. So I would never want to give somebody a blanket recommendation, but I would say The quicker that you remove that brake dust, the better off you’ll be at removing them because typically the ones, the dust that it’s very heavy tends to be corrosive.

So the longer a corrosive material is allowed to sit, the more damage it will do, especially in damp or wet conditions, which tends to activate or accelerate the corrosiveness.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And to add to that as a plug for one of our previous episodes, one of the things I found that works really, really well is, is if you use a wheel treatment, there aren’t a ton out there.

Zymal makes one called wheel coat and it’s designed with natural materials in it. And I’ve shown videos where after a session on [00:53:00] track, you can wipe down a wheel with super aggressive brake dust on it with just a napkin and nothing else. And it repels the brake dust. So if you’re that concerned about it, I highly recommend looking into a wheel coat.

Protection, a coating that you can put on. They’re not the same coating you would put on the body panels of the car. Something specifically designed for wheels. I can’t recommend the Zymal stuff enough. There are other competing products out there. That’s the one I’ve chosen to go with. You can tune into a previous episode with Zymal to learn more about those products, if you’re interested.

Since we’re talking about pads and we all have our loyalties, let’s talk about the different brands that Porterfield resells along with the house brand, the Porterfield pads themselves. What can somebody call up and order from Porterfield from you, Wendy?

Wendy Charlier: We sell obviously the Porterfield, our in house brand, Performance Friction.

Hawk, Raybestos, and Paget. And we carry from Paget and Raybestos. It’s only their race line. We don’t carry anything for their street line. We’re a reseller for Brembo, so [00:54:00] we can get obviously any of the Brembo racing brake pads as well as the street stuff too.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ve also heard that if you don’t have a pad available in the catalog for a vehicle that Porterfield, you can send old pads because you guys can do something with the backing plates to actually create pads.

Is that true or not?

Wendy Charlier: So we don’t actually need your backing plate. So we get this a lot. I will say as a disclaimer recently, Raybustess, they don’t mind that we make custom pads. So everybody that we sell knows that we make custom pads. We make no qualms about asking and making sure that that’s cool with them.

So Raybustess has asked if you’re going to make our pads into something else, after you finish the product, please just relabel it yours so that the liability is yours since we don’t have control over what you do understood. So if anybody sees. The pads labeled are in a quarter filled box. I assure you, it is still Raybestos product.

We’re just confirming that we’re doing it under their regulations and how they would like it to be. Generally speaking, we would put it back in like a hot box or a pageant box so that way [00:55:00] the customer knows, like, this is what we use. This is, But per their requests, we had to make that change, which is recent.

Basically, we start with a finished product, whether that’s from POC or Paget or PFC or Rebestos. And it only comes into play if it’s a pad that they don’t make somebody really wants. So like, let’s say a Mazda Miata. the newer ones without the Brembo system. I know a lot of people like to run the HP plus on those Miatas for dual purpose.

They don’t make them. So we make it, but we have to start with something that’s already finished and we just cut it to the shape that you need. So in theory, you can think about somebody giving you a round cake and you’re like, well, gosh, I really want a square one. Okay, cool. I’m just going to take a knife and I’m going to cut the little corners off and I’ll make it square.

It’s kind of the same thing with the brake pads. We’re not pouring their material. We’re not relining on a vacuum plate. We’re starting with a part they made themselves and we’re just changing the shape to match what you need.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. And so [00:56:00] this is important for a lot of guys that have vintage cars, right?

Where they might have something odd. I personally have a vehicle that I’m working on now that has brem tech calipers on there. Those were discontinued 30 years ago now. And I’ve been going, do I replace? These are four piston calipers. I’m like, do I replace?

Wendy Charlier: It’s basically like a Wilwood super light pad, but it’s flat across the bottom.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So I’m kind of like, where do I, where do I go to get pads? I call Porterfield and say, can you make me one? Or do I replace all of my calipers? That’s kind of the decision I’m faced with. And I’m sure a lot of other people are too. So I want to remind people that. You guys offer this service and it’s super important, especially if you wanted a more aggressive pad or something that you’re used to using on your more germane race car, that you have this option available to you.

And I think that’s super awesome.

Wendy Charlier: Yeah, it’s kind of what we’re, you know, what we’re known for. sets us different than most other companies that we have that custom aspect.

Crew Chief Eric: So I wonder, and this comes up a lot, I hear, Oh, well, Porterfield’s just a rebadged Raybestos, whatever. Is that [00:57:00] true? Or is it sort of like,

Wendy Charlier: no, we’ve been in business.

Well, so, okay. I’ve been here for 25 years. When I first started in 1998, we already had our Porterfield line. We did not start selling Raybestos until like 2008 or seven or something like that. But first of all, just to debunk that, we were in business selling Porterfield pads long before we were selling Raybestos brake pads.

But no, we manufacture our own brake pads and it’s completely separate. They’re completely different. If you took a Raybestos pad and a Porterfield pad and you put them side by side, they would look visibly very, very different. We are not the same company. I think people, they kind of think that it’s the same only because we were probably one of the earlier club racing companies that started pushing the Raybestos out there before it was really readily available to a lot of other club racers.

So I think they get it misconstrued, but definitely they’re two separate companies. Not related, not the same thing.

Crew Chief Eric: And our last bit here in the technical part of the [00:58:00] conversation, checking our brakes, how do we really look for where and making sure we’re getting the optimal performance out of everything?

What are some of your recommendations for doing the operations and maintenance of our system throughout the season?

Wendy Charlier: Well, obviously like just, it’s as simple as a visual inspection. I mean, brake pads are going to be very easy to look at and see if your pad material is low. We recommend replacing pads when you have only a quarter inch material left.

Some people that’s not their comfort level, whatever floats your boat. But we say no more, no less than a quarter inch of material. Rotor is the same thing. You know, if they’re getting really warped or they’re getting really grooved, you know, you have that visible etching or ripples or whatever in them, it’s time to replace that.

The calipers inspecting those, inspecting your boots, inspecting your seals, inspecting the pistons, make sure that there’s no like. Pits or anything that got in there. Occasionally we’ve had people where rocks have kicked up and got into that caliber system and put like a huge gouge in the piston and it was causing it to leak.

Things happen. You just don’t know. So [00:59:00] just visual inspections of all of your equipment, just like you would do anything else checking it to make sure it’s all working order.

Crew Chief Eric: So what other wear and tear or specialty like brake related products does Porterfield sell outside of pads? Do you guys have rotors, brake lines, fluids?

What else do you carry?

Wendy Charlier: So we carry like Tilton’s full line. So anything that Tilton sells, master cylinders, pedal assemblies, same with like Wilwood, we carry that. We carry products by DEI, which is dealing with the heat situations. They have a great floor panel kit for Miatas. Since we brought that up a couple of times, just figured I’d shout that one out, brake fluid, C trap oil coolers, carry red line oil, a lot of like undercar parts, mostly like something that would be somewhat related to brakes or other kinds of niche type market situation.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, Wendy. So we covered a lot of ground and I want to ask, are there any shout outs, promotions, anything else we didn’t talk about with respect to Porterfield? You know, this is your opportunity to let the audience know. [01:00:00]

Wendy Charlier: Well, we’re here for the racers. That’s what we, we love talking to them. Even if it’s just a question, that’s maybe not going to net a sale.

We’re here to help. We’re here to answer questions and educate people. Same as I’m ready to be educated. If I said something in this podcast and somebody was like, she’s crazy. That’s fine. Give me a call. I’m at Porterfield all the time and you just let me know and we can talk about it. And we can both learn.

And I think it’s just a really good industry and. community to be involved with. Porterfield just tries to do what we can to help the whole community and keep people out there racing and having a good time.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. And for those that don’t know, this is the opportunity where you should be checking your membership to your different car clubs, because some of them do have discounts and promotions with Porterfield.

I can name a few off the top of my head right now, but this is part of that value incentive package. Why they want you to sign up for these annual memberships. So check and see if Porterfield is on the list. So that way. Save a couple of bucks next time you need a set of pads [01:01:00] or rotors or brake fluid or whatever it is.

Wendy Charlier: Yep, racebrakes. com and we do it at NASA, SCCA, and VARA are the discounts.

Crew Chief Eric: Porterfield Brakes services all kinds of performance applications related to your vehicle’s braking system, including brake pads, rotors, calipers, fluids, and full brake kits, as well as other performance and racing components like suspensions, oil coolers, starters, heat protection items.

batteries and much, much more. If you need any brake pads for virtually any car or truck, they have them or they will make them for you. So be sure to check out Porterfield brakes before making your next purchase. You can find Porterfield at www. porterfield brakes. com or at Porterfield brakes on Instagram and Facebook.

And for more details on everything we talked about in this episode, head on over to gtmotorsports. org and search What’s stopping you for the follow on article for this episode and by all means, give Wendy a call. She’s a wealth of information [01:02:00] and happy to have a conversation with you. And with that, Wendy, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show.

This has been an absolute education, and I really appreciate you taking the time to stop. and talk to us about brakes.

Wendy Charlier: Well, thank you so much for having us. It was great to chat with you.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no [01:03:00] charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Meet Wendy Charlier from Porterfield Brakes
  • 02:46 Understanding Brake Systems and ABS
  • 04:57 Common Brake Issues: Fade, Warping, and Bedding
  • 13:08 Advanced Brake Concepts: Boil Back and Knockback
  • 19:56 The Role of Brake Fluid in Performance
  • 25:20 Brake Lines and Big Brake Kits
  • 33:01 The Debate on Rotor Quality
  • 35:45 The Importance of Cooling Ducts
  • 39:27 Choosing the Right Brake Pads
  • 43:02 Understanding Race Pads
  • 53:31 Custom Brake Solutions
  • 57:56 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Bonus Content

Learn More

Andy Porterfield (1931-2012)

Photo courtesy SCCA

Andy Porterfield was born June 1, 1931.  He lettered in track in high school in Los Angeles and earned a degree in business from Chico State.  In addition to racing, he played racquetball and water skied and always kept himself in good shape.  Until the mid-80s, he was a partner in a company that built parts for nuclear power plants.  He said he saw the writing on the wall and managed to sell his share of the business before the bottom fell out of the nuclear power industry.  During his time racing Corvettes, Andy learned that stopping was as important as going. 

For a long time, Corvettes were sadly lacking in the stopping department.  As a result he fitted some British Ferodo brake linings.  One day at Riverside, the Ferodo rep asked him to take on the distributorship in the United States.  He accepted and began the ongoing brake business that bore his name.  Today Porterfield Enterprises manufactures its own brake pads, rotors and distributes for other companies.  His pads and other brake parts are vital to the racing community.  In addition, they make high performance street pads and supply brakes for U.S. Military aircraft.

He had a distinguished racing career.  He won a national championship twice he and won 195 national races.  He was the Southern Pacific Division Champion 23 times and the Regional Champion 19 times.  Overall he won over 400 races.  He enjoyed it and had fun.  At the professional level, he ran Can-Am in the 60s with 4 podium finishes.  He ran 40 Trans-Am events and 20 IMSA races.  Trans-Am finished in the top ten 13 times.  He spent time in a sprint car and  a stock car.  He raced every year since 1956 including 2012 – 56 years behind the wheel.  In the 70s he got involved in club governance.  He served on the Cal Club Board for 16 years, as RE 5 years and in 1985 was first elected to the National Board of Directors.   The spec racer business, SCCA Enterprises, was going through a difficult time and an astute businessman was needed.

Photo courtesy SCCA

Andy was named Chairman of the Board of SCCA Enterprises and helped pull that business from defeat.  Andy coordinated the worker effort at the Long Beach Grand Prix every year.  In 2008 he received the McGill award and in 2009 the Woolf Barnato Award.  Andy Porterfield made significant contributions to motorsports.  He volunteered more time and effort than most.  He was conscientious and an astute businessman, faithful to the Club to the very end.  His passion for this club is unequaled.

SOURCE: SCCA.COM

Braking isn’t just pressing a pedal. It’s a hydraulic ballet:

  • The master cylinder pushes fluid through brake lines.
  • That fluid activates pistons in the caliper.
  • Pistons press pads against the rotor, creating friction and stopping power.

ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) adds another layer, rapidly pulsing the brakes to prevent lockup. While essential for street safety, racers often aim to avoid ABS engagement through finesse and threshold braking—a lost art in today’s nanny-laden vehicles.


Mythbusting Brake Terminology

Wendy helps us decode common brake terms and misconceptions:

  • Fade: Loss of friction due to overheated pads. The pedal stays firm, but stopping power drops.
  • Warping: Often misunderstood. True warping affects the rotor’s surface, not its entire shape. Uneven pad deposits can mimic this.
  • Bedding: Crucial for race pads. Gradually heating pads lays down an adherent friction layer, ensuring consistent performance and avoiding vibration.
  • Uneven Wear: Usually caliper-related—think piston imbalance or flex. Flipping pads can extend their life.
  • Boil Back: Overheated fluid travels back through the system, affecting pedal feel and even clutch performance in shared reservoirs.
  • Knockback: Rotor deflection pushes pads away from the disc, leading to a soft pedal. Left-foot braking or anti-knockback springs can help.

Modern traction and stability systems use rear brakes to stabilize the car, especially in corners. This leads to accelerated rear pad wear. Wendy’s advice? Don’t skimp – run race pads in the rear too, and consider offsetting compounds front-to-back to maintain balance and proper temperature ranges.


Brake Fluid: The Unsung Hero

Brake fluid is hygroscopic – it absorbs moisture over time, which lowers its boiling point. Wendy recommends:

  • Prioritizing dry boiling temps over DOT ratings.
  • Bleeding fluid after every race.
  • Choosing fluid based on track demands (e.g., Castrol SRF for high-temp tracks like Laguna Seca).

And a pro tip: If your clutch shares a reservoir with your brakes, consider separating them to avoid hydraulic overload.

Stainless steel braided lines offer firmer pedal feel and better heat resistance than rubber. As for big brake kits? Wendy says stock calipers are often sufficient – until you start adding horsepower. Then, upgrading becomes essential to match your car’s performance envelope.


For more details on everything we talked about in this episode, head on over to the original What’s Stopping You? for an in-depth review of all the information in this episode.

Whether you’re a seasoned racer or a weekend warrior, understanding your braking system is key to going faster, safer. Thanks to Wendy Charlier and Porterfield Brakes for stopping by and helping us go deeper into the tech that keeps us on track.


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Motoring Podcast Network

Racing Without Limits: How Just Hands Is Redefining Motorsports for Drivers with Disabilities

“Motorsports is one of the only sports that makes everyone equal—no matter what appendages you use to drive.” That powerful statement from Torsten Gross, co-founder of the Just Hands Racing Foundation, sets the tone for a conversation that’s as technical as it is transformative.

Torsten Gross Just Hands Racing Foundation on Break/Fix
Photo courtesy Just Hands Racing Foundation; Torsten Gross

In this episode of Break/Fix, we’re joined by three remarkable racers: Torsten Gross, a C6 quadriplegic and passionate motorsports advocate; Matteo Fontana, a C6/C7 quadriplegic and longtime GTM member; and Tim Horrell, a GT4 BMW driver competing in the SRO GT America Series. Together, they share their journeys from life-altering injuries to life-affirming laps on the racetrack.

Each guest recounts the accident that changed their life – and the resilience that followed:

  • Tim Horrell was injured in a single-car accident at age 21. Despite an incomplete L1 spinal injury, he regained partial mobility and now races professionally.
  • Torsten Gross broke his neck in a shallow dive in The Bahamas, was clinically dead for two minutes, and came back with a mission: to live fully and race fiercely.
  • Matteo Fontana suffered a spinal injury after diving into a wave in Ocean City, Maryland. After years of therapy and determination, he returned to motorsports with a hand-controlled Audi TT.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

These racers didn’t just survive—they thrived. From marathons and scuba diving to skydiving and international travel, they’ve embraced adrenaline and adventure. But motorsports remained a shared passion, and each found their way back to the track:

  • Tim rediscovered his competitive edge through DEs and track days, eventually earning his racing license.
  • Torsten received a track day gift from his wife and never looked back—he now races an E92 M3 and founded Just Hands Racing.
  • Matteo was coaxed back into racing by GTM’s own Crew Chief Eric, reigniting a lifelong love of cars and competition.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode features a discussion with Torsten Gross, a C6 quadriplegic and founder of the Just Hands Racing Foundation, along with fellow racers Matteo Fontana and Tim Horrell. These guests share their personal stories of becoming disabled through life-changing accidents and how they overcame these challenges to pursue their passion for motorsports. The episode highlights the unique modifications and hand control systems that make it possible for quadriplegic and paraplegic drivers to compete on equal footing with able-bodied drivers. The conversation also explores the mission and operations of the Just Hands Racing Foundation, aimed at providing opportunities for disabled individuals to experience performance driving. The speakers express gratitude for the support from various organizations and individuals and emphasize the importance of inclusion and understanding in motorsports.

  • Let’s talk about each of your accidents, and how it changed your lives. 
  • While these accidents changed your lives, it didn’t stop any of you from pursuing speed and physical activities. What kinds of hobbies have you both been able to maintain over the years?
  • What drove you to motorsports? What was your path like?
  • Let’s talk about the different kinds of hand controls and vehicle setups and the lack of standardization and all the modifications to consider (locking down legs, fire suppression, entry/exit, seats)
  • Motorsports with hand controls, the challenges (passing signals)
  • The Just Hands Racing Foundation, what is it about, services it provides, who qualifies to drive. How have drivers reacted to the experience? 
  • What does Just Hands Foundation look like in 1-5 years? 
  • How can we help? – Are there ways that the able bodied community can work with, contribute, share in the JHR experience?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Few, if any sports give people with disabilities, the opportunity to compete with the rest of the world. Yes, we’ve seen skiers, marathoners, basketball players, and a myriad of others. But unfortunately for these athletes, they are held to a small group that they can compete against.

And in our world of arrive and drive track days and racing schools, the overwhelming majority is just standard pedal cars. That being said, the Just Hands Racing Foundation was developed to give anyone who uses hand controls to drive, usually people in [00:01:00] wheelchairs, the opportunity to get on track with an instructor.

And joining us tonight is Torsten Gross, one of the founders of the Just Hands Racing Foundation, who is a C6 quadriplegic, along with GTM er Mateo Fontana, a C6 C7 quadriplegic, whom many of you have seen at the track racing his hand controlled Audi TT 3. 2 Quattro, as well as special guest Tim Horrell, GT4 BMW driver from Fast Track Racing, part of the SRO GT America series.

to discuss the world of racing from their unique seating positions. So welcome to break fix gentlemen. So let’s go around the horn and talk about how you all got into the situation you’re in. Let’s talk about your accidents and how it changed your lives.

Tim Horrell: Go ahead Tim. I was hurt in a car accident when I was 21.

Happened in my home like up near Pennsylvania where I’m originally from. Single car accident happened on the street. Long story short I guess where they were doing construction on the road. Weeks before they were [00:02:00] paving and all that and that night when I was coming home from I wanted to go out and visit my dad.

And then when I was coming back to go live with my mom, because I live, I was living with her at the time. So I was going back to my mom’s house. There were no more construction trucks or anything. And I had like this car that I love. It was my first car that I bought with my own money. It was like a 2010, um, Hyundai Genesis Coupe.

The track model was like for 30, 000. It was like 300 horsepower. It was like perfect. I had that car and I loved that car. And I was coming home from the store that night with it. Just wanted to be out and drive the car. It was a nice night. I saw no more construction workers or any things. I just wanted to have a little bit of fun with it.

And little did I know they weren’t completely finished there and there were no signs in a certain area. I ran over a spot in the road where they were still doing construction and they lost control of the car. Long story short, like this is where they put me in a wheelchair. What’s your injury level? My injury level is like an L1, like a lot lower than yours for sure.

I was, I guess, blessed in that sense, like, that it wasn’t a complete injury. It was incomplete, and it took me, like, a long while, like, I think it was six [00:03:00] months before, like, I could really start to regain, like, movement back, any kind of movement back. To get me to where I am today, primarily use a wheelchair, and then I also can use, like, a walker to walk, just for shorter distances.

Well, I’m beyond blessed that I was able to get back what I did get back.

Crew Chief Eric: So if we walk back in time, Torsten is the next one. And then Matteo, we’ll go after

Torsten Gross: July 11th, 1994. I went to the Bahamas Dover in the ocean where it was only three feet deep, but because the water was so crystal clear, the sun beat down on the ocean and magnified it looked about seven feet deep.

So I did a deep water dive instead of shallow water dive, broke my neck, 36 pieces drowned and was dead for clinically for two and a half minutes. Resuscitated under a semi circle of onlookers. And. I was brought back to life and I could see them pinching going up to my shoulders saying, do you feel this?

Do you feel this? And I smile and I go, I’m not getting up from this one. Am I? That was the minute I think everyone knew I would have a sense of humor about it. You asked Eric, you know, how does it change my life? I’ll say that, uh, it’s going to sound weird, but it’s the best thing that could have ever [00:04:00] happened to me.

I personally don’t feel the need to have to walk. I have a great wife, great life. I get to race cars. I get to do a lot of other sports. The only things I can’t do is walk up a curb. I get a lot of kind of the same faces when I talk about my accident. I’m like, well, it’s actually not that bad. Yeah. We all go through some struggles, but for me, it was, I know it’s a hurdle in the road.

Now I can’t do hurdles anymore, but yeah, it is what it is. And that, that was my accident.

Matteo Fontana: Mine happened in. 1981, right after high school graduation, I went to the beach, Ocean City, Maryland. It was early in the morning. Big wave was coming and I said, I’m going to dive through it. I dove through it. When I got under it was going to come out the other end.

Like you see a bunch of people do that at the beach. The timing was a little off and the wave hit me in the back of the head, snapped my neck, changed the angle of where I was diving. Then I hit the bottom and it snapped again. From then on, it was a C6, C7 injury and I was paralyzed [00:05:00] from the neck down, almost drowned.

A friend of mine pulled me out, but it was after a while I was getting kicked around by the waves and I couldn’t do anything. I mean, I was trying to tread water and the more I moved my arms, the less movement I got. I was losing all my arm movement. When I got on the beach, similar to you, Torsten. I couldn’t feel anything.

I could move my shoulders, but I felt like I had been run over by a Mack truck. I couldn’t breathe, I was spitting out water, all that. Fast forward, I got a experimental surgery done. Once they stabilized me for about three weeks, they moved me to Washington, D. C., to Georgetown, and I had a experimental surgery.

That actually kind of work didn’t work right away, but I started to get some feeling back. That was the first thing that was coming back gradually. And then after that, the first thing I moved six months later was my big toes. Everybody was jumping up and down for that because they were saying [00:06:00] that there was a connection from here all the way down to your feet, which is important.

I think it took me about two years before I came home and I did a lot of physical therapy. I was able to walk. a little bit by the time I got home, but I did the rest of it by myself. I was determined. I said, you know, I got this far. I think I can get more out of it. I gave up school for another two years, did eight hours of therapy a day, and then I ended up walking with one cane.

And that’s when the doors started opening up and ideas kept coming back into my head about things I used to do before, like racing and autocrossing and all those things. But then later in life, I guess age takes its toll on a spinal cord injury and it kind of comes back a little bit to haunt you. I used to use the wheelchair for long distance.

Now I use it More. I walk with crutches now, short distances, similar to Tim, and I use the wheelchair a lot more than I wanted [00:07:00] to, but it’s okay. It is what it is. I can still do a lot of things that I want to do. So life goes on. I think that’s what we’re here to talk about, that life goes on and you still get to do the things that we love to do if you really put your mind to it and make it happen.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s. A perfect segue, Mateo. While these accidents did in fact change your lives, it didn’t stop any of you from pursuing speed or physical activities. So let’s talk about some of the other hobbies that you’ve been able to maintain over the years and things you’ve been able to do. So we’ll start with Torsten.

I think there’s some things that would shock people.

Torsten Gross: I’d always said I’m going to keep living life the way I would have if I didn’t have my accident. Being an athlete. So I’ve done things like 12 marathons in 12 months. I skydive, I ski, and I’m also the world’s only quadriplegic that is a rescue scuba diver.

Now I started tracking cars. To me, anything that tests my life insurance policy is something that I want to do. To my wife, Chagrin, [00:08:00] I definitely like adrenaline sports. No question about it.

Tim Horrell: I’ve learned from my accident that life is so fragile and life can change in a matter of a second. If you have anything that you want to do or pursue in life, then you really should take advantage of that and go for it.

Full steam ahead. I tried to go to the gym as much as I always could, like just before the accident because I live in the gym and that’s where I’m happy at. Also spending time with my dog, Mac, just living an active lifestyle as possible. I’m skydiving as well. I don’t feel like because you got hurt and because you got kind of humbled in a way and showing that you weren’t invincible because I guess that’s how I felt when I was younger when I got hurt.

I got hurt when I was 21. I kind of felt like I was invincible at the time, like nothing could hurt me, nothing, anything. And then I got like a really humbling experience that happened to me that taught me that life is fragile, but also at the same time, if you have something, a passion that you really love or something that you really want to do, you

Crew Chief Eric: should definitely

Tim Horrell: push to the limits to pursue it.

Crew Chief Eric: Mateo, if you say you did skydiving as well, I’m at a loss. I’m not brave enough to do that, to have somebody kick me out of the [00:09:00] side of a plane. So if we fall down and we break our

Torsten Gross: legs, it doesn’t really matter

Crew Chief Eric: to us.

Matteo Fontana: Well, actually, you know, after these two guys talked about their stuff, I don’t know. I didn’t skydive.

But it’s not too late, right? Maybe I’ll have you, Torsten, take me out. You don’t have to do much. You just have to scream on the way down. I may have to put on my plastic underwear too, but anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: But you did go autocrossing though. You did go into motorsport and you drove a manual transmission vehicle. I mean, that’s pretty surprising as well.

Matteo Fontana: I was told I would never drive again. You know, I remember getting in my car and it was a stick. I told my dad, don’t get rid of it, but in the garage, you know, I just kept getting in it. And trying and trying and trying. One day, my dad said, you know, we should take it out in a parking lot. You should just try and drive it.

I really thought I could. And I did. And then I went and took some tests also because I didn’t want to be a [00:10:00] danger out on the road, but I was able to drive again, stick and autocross. stick. Later in life, I moved to hand controls as well. Cause like I was saying, the aging process takes over. I always enjoyed swimming.

I didn’t get into any marathons. I always would swim laps. That was really good for my back, my upper body, as well as my lower body. I would be able to kick with my legs some, but they would get tired, but then my upper body would take over. I did scuba dive and I did learn how to do that in Hawaii. With my wife, I did a lot of traveling before having my daughter.

We just went everywhere and did a lot of stuff that I thought I’d never do, like climbing into a gondola, the seas moving and trying to get on this thing. And, and I did that. We went from a big boat onto a small boat in the middle of the ocean in the Island of Capri to go see the Blue Grotto. And I had a bunch of Italians look at me like, you’re crazy.

You’re barely walking and you’re going to go from one boat to the other in [00:11:00] the middle of the ocean. All they did was put them up side by side, but there was like a 12 inch to maybe two foot gap between the two boats with my two canes, trying to get across it and my wife was picturing me with one leg on one boat and one leg on the other, but it didn’t happen.

It, it all worked out. I just try to always enjoy life to its fullest. Not let this accident stop me. That’s for sure.

Crew Chief Eric: So now we’re going to talk a little bit more about everybody’s motorsports background. Mattel was heavily influenced by my father, who is a nationally recognized first solo, autocrosser, et cetera, and influenced by the family to get into motorsports.

I’ve spent countless hours talking to Mattel and he’s being modest tonight. He is a petrol head through and through. I mean, he has loved cars from an early age, so I’m just going to kind of leave it there, but I want to talk to Torsen and Tim about what got you guys into motorsports and what drove you pun intended into motorsports

Tim Horrell: definitely was like a couple of years after my accident, having to like learn [00:12:00] life all over again.

At the time I was a electrician. Working for my family business, I had hopes maybe of going to the Marines or something like that. Obviously when the accident happened, everything I knew about life had changed and I had to go about it and do things differently. My love for cars, like I said, was always there before that.

The Genesis Coupe that I got and it just was something that I didn’t know that I could incorporate more into my life. After accident, but I learned that I could get more out of it than just owning a car or something per se. And because I love the speed, obviously, and it got me in trouble some ways and a part of it may have got me, you know, it did.

I can be honest. It got me to where I am now today. A lot of like what got me into racing is. Cause it helped me find my competitive edge again, something I lost when I got hurt. Cause I played baseball, I used to run a lot. When I got hurt, like a lot of those things, I was like gone. I couldn’t do any of them anyway.

So I was just talking with people that would just help kind of put me in the right direction. And it was actually the therapist that was at McGee. It was, I went [00:13:00] down to the center of city, Philadelphia. That’s where I was for my rehab. She had said like, well, what, what drives you in life? What makes you happy?

And I love cars. Like, I love that. And she’s like, well, what can you do with cars? And I didn’t really know at the time but I looked more into it and joined like the Porsche Club and first just doing DE events, meeting different people within there and like the red or black students who I thought were like the best in the world when I was a green student.

Just to see like that I could still do this and enjoy it like just to see where I could go with it. And then from there, I went into the chin motorsports, like just track days. And I met the late Jim pace, who’s the real one who really, I can credit a lot of really got me into racing. I had a GT three at the time was driving that car on track days.

And he’s like the speed, this thing’s going, it’s just, it’s not safe. And the way you’re doing is that you need a proper race car. You should getting into racing and learning more about that. And that’s really what got me into racing that I could be as competitive as I wanted to be. Cause I was like, I said a very competitive person.

So it kind of helped me [00:14:00] find that again, the competitive edge when I’m out there and I’m racing other people, no one really knows I’m hurt or no one really knows anything like until they see me in victory lane.

Torsten Gross: I’m going to be the outlier of this group and say, I’m not a gearhead. I personally still think that there are a lot of mice and gerbils that run really fast in order to make my car go quickly.

Because if you were to ask me if there’s an engine in my car, I would shrug my shoulders and say, maybe, because I really don’t know what’s inside of a car. I just know that I know how to drive one. And I say that because having been pulled over 36 times before I was 30 years old, three of them going over 125 miles an hour and only getting two speeding tickets in my life.

One of them being 65 and one of them being like around 75. And that is you pour water on your lap and say you’re handicapped and couldn’t find a handicapped bathroom. That gets you out of a lot of tickets really quickly. I’d always loved driving fast and I was never really one though, to think that I could get into motor sports.

You know, having had an accident of 15, it [00:15:00] was just not something that was in my sphere of understanding when we moved up here, right outside of Lime Rock, my wife had given me for our anniversary, a track day gift. The funny opposite side to that is she handed me a track day gift. I handed her in return.

motorcycle lessons. So we’re kind of perfect match for each other that we didn’t know we were giving that to each other. And that’s what we got each other for our anniversaries. That’s how I got into motor sports. Tim, just like you for me, all these sports that I’ve done in my life and I get it that I can say I’m the first and only in the world of doing this or did 12 marathons in 12 months.

All these accolades are great, right? You know, that’s sure. I get the inspiration comment all the time, which I think is BS, but whatever it is, what it is. The thing that bothered me always is that I could never compete equally with anybody. And so if we were to go skiing together, we’d never be in the same division.

Not even everyone on the phone here, right. Or on this call would be in the same division. Cause we’re all different from an injury level, from a function [00:16:00] level and all that. We wouldn’t be marathoning in the same division. We wouldn’t, nothing would be the same. And most of my friends can walk. So I’d never be in the same division as them, except for exactly what Tim said.

No one knows that I’m in chair when I’m on the track and I leave my chair in the paddock. It stays there until I come back. And then it’s always that moment of, wait, that was you, you know, and it’s that smile of yes. And by the way, you paid way too much for your Ferrari. You might want to get some racing tires on there because I’m beating you, which is always very annoying, but luckily I’m in a chair.

So they will not punch me in the nose. When I make a comment like that, I’m still on my journey of understanding motor sports and understanding what’s in the car. But I’m doing everything, not just for myself now, but you know, we’ll talk about in a minute, just hands to me. A passion isn’t something that you find and then you have to do yourself, but you have an obligation to share with others.

And so I knew that this was a passion when I realized I don’t just want to buy a race car for myself. I need to buy another one to have other [00:17:00] people do it too. And that was the moment I realized I might not be a gear head, but I’m definitely into motor sports. And I think it’s okay to not be both. I think it’s very intimidating in the sport.

To have to know everything about everything inside of the car. And I don’t think that that’s necessary. I think you need to know a lot about the car, building the sport and growing the sport also has to be with people like me that are not just a gearhead and just want to tinker, but. Want to understand what great driving’s like.

That’s what Just Dance also teaches, but we’ll get into that in a minute.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, I know I put a pin in Mateo and I did that on purpose because there was a hiatus between when he was autocrossing and then now that he’s doing track events. And I think I’m partially to blame for bringing him to the track.

And I will say this, I took him for a ride in, I don’t remember which car it was, one of them. And I said to you, you’re either going to love this or you’re going to hate it. That was, I think that was all I said. And then we went out on track. You love it. Why? And what really brought you to the track?

Matteo Fontana: Let me drop back.[00:18:00]

I think what drove me to it is I left something out of my story at the beginning. Before the accident happened, I was always a car guy, a petrol head. On the weekend, I used to pull the engine from my car, rebuild it, put it back together. And have it back in their race and do all that fun stuff. What I remember is that yes, I was going to go to college, but my overall goal was always to have my own, an auto shop that would build race cars for people.

So the love of race cars was always in me from a young age. I used to live in Italy in a city called Modena. We lived very close to the Ferrari factory, so I used to hear it. While I was playing with my little Matchbox cars on the balcony, I could hear them testing the Ferraris on the racetrack. And then, later on, I would watch rally racing.

And go to the rally races. Got the juices flowing in me from a [00:19:00] young age. So then after my accident, once I got better, I was never completely better. I started working on my cars again, modifying them. A car was never mine until I put my own signature on it. And then together with Eric’s dad, we used to do that on the weekends all the time because we had to work on during the week.

But on the weekends, we’d get together and say, Oh, I Got a new set of shocks. Let’s put them in. I’ll come over, you know, whatever. He got me into autocrossing and then I don’t know. I think I let the work take over and life took over and I shouldn’t have been too busy, but I was too busy and just stopped racing and I never should have.

But Eric’s the one who got me into it. I sat in his car and he took me around the track. He kept bugging me. You need to come out to the track. You need to come back out to the track. I finally went one day and he was out there, went for a ride in his car. Of course, when I got back, you know, [00:20:00] my wife was waiting for me.

My smile was probably all the way up to my ears because, you know, the adrenaline Eric got me going. And and then I was like, I got to do this. I got to do this. After that, it was history. I got back into it and Eric got me going and then he kept saying, Are you going to come to this event? Are you going to come to this event?

I better see you out there. It’s only an hour from your house. You don’t have any excuses. Now I’m here. Now I’m in. I’ll probably stop when I’m 80. Maybe

Crew Chief Eric: I think the best part of that was he shows up at his first DE at a station wagon. And then the next one, the conversations between that event and the next one where I’m buying another car, we’re buying another car for the track.

I got to find a track car. And then he settles on the Audi TT, which is a great choice for you. It’s a great car altogether, but to make both of those cars viable for the track, they had to be modified. People may not know listening to this, that there are different kinds of hand controls and vehicle setups.

Each one of you probably have different variations on a theme. There’s a [00:21:00] lack of standardizations. There’s tons of other mods to consider. I want to kind of dive into that. I want people to understand how it works. They’re probably scratching their heads going, how are you guys driving on track with just your hands?

How does this work exactly?

Torsten Gross: Cause as we were putting together the foundation car, this was one of the biggest issues that there is no standardization. There are three main ways of driving. One is you steer with your left and you give throttle and break with your right. Another is you steer with your right, give throttle and brake with your left.

And then there is a version of what’s called the Guido Simplex, where it is all integrated onto the steering wheel itself, where you push a ring. You can pull a ring, but it’s all integrated into the steering wheel itself. Those are the three main versions. Now there are always offshoots onto all of those that are versions of each.

Those are kind of the three main ways of thinking about hand controls.

Crew Chief Eric: So I’ve seen Tim’s car and there’ll be pictures in the [00:22:00] follow on article of that. I’ve seen my tail’s car, which is a drive by left hand. And the Guido Simplex is what Alex Zanardi uses in the Le Mans car.

Torsten Gross: Tim, you drive with steering on the hand, on the wheel itself, right?

Tim Horrell: Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say like, so the, my throttle ring, it’s kind of like a Guido Simplex on the front of the wheel, but it’s like Kempf, it’s K E M P F. I control the car with my thumbs, kind of just pushing the thumbs where I can grab behind the wheel and shift with the paddles, which allows me like, I’d never done autocross.

I’ve seen, I’ve seen, it looks very fun, but the kind of racing I do, like the road racing, like you could be going around a corner at a hundred plus miles an hour and have the car like want to step out on you. So I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it with not both hands on the wheel. Whereas, like, for autocrossing, I don’t, I’ve never done it, so I can’t say, but I would maybe feel comfortable driving, like I drive my truck, it’s like a push pull system.

So it’s like the ring around the inside of the wheel, I push towards the wheel, like, with my thumbs for gas, and then there’s a brake on the right hand side, that’s mechanical, that I push away from me. For the break. So the only [00:23:00] time I have my hands off the wheel in theory is only when I’m coming into a breaking zone.

Matteo Fontana: I’ll say mine’s called a rock throttle. It’s similar to a push pull. You push the brake and I have the hand controls on the left, hold the steering wheel with the right. It’s mounted so close because the throttle comes upward. And so I have my hand on the throttle that I pulled back to throttle and push in for the break.

The way it’s. Positioned I keep a thumb on the wheel. I can help myself hold the wheel. I make it work I didn’t realize there were versions like you all lyrics which are obviously nicer. I feel like I’m pretty safe I wouldn’t do it if I wasn’t safe the way I do it works fine for me the bad part I mean with hand controls, you can never flag somebody by by putting your hand through That doesn’t work.

You got to use your turn signal. That’s the only way.

Torsten Gross: No, true. Don’t say that. These are myths that bother me because these are the [00:24:00] reasons why people start saying that people in chairs can’t do HPDE, that it’s not safe. And we don’t want to do the blinker version. And Audi, by the way, love them because I do love the blinker version.

So I did Audi NEQ. I’m here in the Northeast, they’re absolutely fantastic. And every other sanctioning body that I’ve been with does point buys. Fine, I’ll do a point buy and we can talk about how I do that in a minute. But when I went to Audi and EQ, I was really happy to see that they did blinker version like everybody in Europe does.

It’s the right thing to do, but there’s so many myths to people driving in chairs that we can’t do certain things that I have had enough arguments to say that I can get on the track. Because I can be equal and I can do what you do and I can do it just as safely, so let me on

Matteo Fontana: by all means, Torson. I wasn’t saying that I couldn’t do it.

I am doing it with the turn signal, but they didn’t want the point by I have done as well. The problem is with the way my hand control works. [00:25:00] When I do a point by my hand controls on the left, and I do a point by I stick my hand out the window. That means I let go of the throttle. So I’m slowing down and the people behind me don’t like it because they don’t see me slowing down.

That’s the only thing. If I use the turn signal, it’s business as usual, and nobody knows anything different. But the point buys, right? Are a little bit harder with the way my hand control works

Torsten Gross: before we talk about point by though eric I think you’re well, you’re bringing up those a valid question about hand controls And I think europe does it way better than we do where?

They have the majority of their hand controls are right throttle and brake and left brake Drive. And here it’s 70 percent left throttle and brake and right steering. However, within the last three years to five years, I think it is, the majority of people are being taught, are taught now to drive with their right hand.

And steer with their left, which is a fundamentally better way of driving anyway, because of lack of fatigue and [00:26:00] how you’re positioned in the car and where your face is pointing when you’re looking in the car, driving with your left hand way more efficient and you can rest your hand more. Both of your arms more and the way it positions your body, it positions it into the car versus out of the car in this country.

Unfortunately, we don’t have the standardization. Now I’m wanting to say, if you find what you’re good at, stick with it. I never want to change anybody’s drive pattern before they get onto the track. Well, for our foundation, we actually have left and right hand controls because I didn’t want anybody showing up to the track and going, Oh, you’re left throttle.

Well, you know, you’re about to go 110 miles an hour, but can you do it with your right hand first? There’s no version of that story that turns out well for anybody. We worked with the manufacturer to actually put in both, so that somebody could be comfortable on the track. It was a very hard thing to do.

Now that’s not normal. You only usually have one or the other, whichever one you are most comfortable with. We thought to have kind of an arrive and drive system, [00:27:00] that would be the right thing to do.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s funny you mentioned steer with the left and do the functions with the right, because that’s the same dynamic as if you were driving a manual transmission car, right?

It’s the grip of death with the left arm as you’re changing gears and taking one arm off of the steering wheel. So to me, I think if I was in your guy’s position, that would seem more natural. You’re now in an automatic and my right arm needs to do something. Let me control the throttle and the brake that way.

And you know, it makes passing easier, all this stuff that we’re going to talk about, but I think we need to take this a step further and I’m going to look to Tim to the way his BMW is built. It’s not just hand controls, it’s the rest of the modifications. So in SRO, There’s some races that are longer, maybe you’re doing driver changes, you know, depending on the stint and depending on the series that you’re in and things like that, well, let’s talk about locking down your legs, about spire suppression, getting in and out of the car, especially if you have, you move up to something with a roll bar or a roll cage, how does all that work for you in the BMW?

Tim Horrell: Something that the serious definitely wants to see [00:28:00] before they let you out there and race their number one concern with anything is safety for any driver. They make sure you get out of the car. Like I said, I can walk with a walker. So I do have like limited use of my lower legs, my knee down. I really can’t feel or move anything, but I still have the ability to move my legs enough to, and then use my upper body, like to lift myself out of the car.

When you get out of the car, if it’s an emergency, like I could just get out of the car and throw myself on the ground and push away if I had to. I don’t know for HPDE, they never asked me to get out of the car like that.

Torsten Gross: I did it because I want to go racing and I’m doing skip bar racing school next week and all that kind of stuff and I got my SCCA license and I wanted to make sure because I’m chest down.

I wanted to make sure I could get out and so we put a mattress on the ground. And I’ve got a roll cage, I’ve got fire suppression, I’ve got a removable steering wheel, all that kind of fun stuff, six point harness, and I strap my legs down because, you know, when you’re hitting G forces going around turns one, you don’t want it to hit the steering wheel or break, but to like anybody, even able body, you want to be one with the car, right?

You want no [00:29:00] movement whatsoever. So I locked down my legs, but then the question becomes, well, if I want to egress. That just adds another layer. I’m actually able to get out in six seconds. So I’ve now practiced it. Tear my legs, like tear the Velcro off, snap the six point harness, pop open the door, and I’m literally throwing myself out of the car.

I mean, I’m on the ground outside of the car. But I’m out of the car that I can do in six seconds. If I were to have to push fire suppression, maybe add another second or two. But we also put in heat sensitive fire suppression versus having to pull the trigger because my thought was if I’m ever going to get to an accident, that is.

Bad enough that needs fire suppression. There’s a good chance I’m not going to be conscious for that. So we did it with heat sensitive fire suppression that just goes on it. I forgot what the temperature is, but it’ll just start itself. So we actually figured out the whole system because I thought if I can’t get out, why even try and go racing?

I’m going to get stopped at some point. So let me curb my own enthusiasm as to what heights I can [00:30:00] get. But once I got out in six seconds. I was like, I can do this, right? And I’m a quad. So if I can do it a lot better, anyone else can do it too.

Tim Horrell: For sure. I mean, like you said, being one with the car officer, like they, my team made me like a seat that’s like really like custom since I, we don’t have a lot of atrophy in my legs.

So I can’t really sit in a normal seat and be comfortable. So my team made me a seat. Where it kind of like goes in between my legs as well and kind of keeps my legs apart.

Torsten Gross: And we

Tim Horrell: still haven’t mastered keeping the feet still. It was like you said, the G forces, like the feet move around. I don’t want it to be dragging on the brakes or something, or I would never be able to tell a difference.

I wouldn’t be able to feel. And obviously with the way my hand controls work, it disables the gas pedal. My one foot kind of goes off to the right on the dead pedal. My other foot goes in the gas pedal. It works that way and we use like tape at the moment. If I need to get out of the car, I showed the marshals and like the safety officials.

I can just rip my legs out or grab my legs and rip the tape and I can get out safely.

Torsten Gross: Yeah. I’m happy to show you, Tim. If you want some help, I’ll show you what I do. It’s funny you say that. When I got my first [00:31:00] car, when I got my race car, it’s an E92 M3. It’s actually a Lime Rock edition. And I raced at Lime Rock, so go figure.

But I get the car. The first thing I do is autocross. And they said, Just so you know, race breaks are really hard. Like you just got to jam on those things. They’re going to jam really hard. They’re going to stop the car really fast, but kind of hit them hard. And I’m going, okay, I can do this. I can do this.

So I get in the car, I’m all strapped up. I’m I’m doing autocross. My legs are just flying around everywhere, but I’m jamming on the brakes and I get home and my wife says. Why is your right foot so swollen? And I was like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. And I looked down and we looked back at the video.

My right foot slid under the brake and the whole autocross, I am jamming down on the brake and the brake pedal is going directly into the arch of my foot. And I broke it in two places. And that is the only exciting story I get to tell about me and like autocross or anything track going wrong. And that’s a lesson you only learn once.

I have to learn once, but that was the moment where I realized, [00:32:00] look, I was still able to stop and that’s fine, but I don’t want to test that theory again. But here we’re going to now start locking down my feet. In some pictures you’ll see on my website, I have one black shoe on and one white shoe. And that’s because the black shoe was the, after you go to the hospital here.

Do this to immobilize your leg. And my only response was I did that 27 years ago. I don’t need to immobilize it anymore, but I decided to wear the boot anyway. That’s why we strapped down our legs. I’m more than happy to show you what I’m doing and what we’re doing for different people. And if you can take some tips from a great, if not, you know, no worries.

Matteo Fontana: Totally wanted to ask you for that. You know, as I am getting worse, my legs move around quite a bit. I don’t have the strength anymore to like hold them in place, even on the dead pedal. Sometimes my foot will pop off of there when you’re going around a turn. The last thing I want to do is reach down there to try to move it.

You know, you need your hands to do the stuff that you do. So yeah, I would love to know how and [00:33:00] where you get the stuff to kind of set that up. Cause that’ll make me feel better and race better. You know, knowing that my leg is

Torsten Gross: secure. Yeah. No problem, Tim, I’ll tell you, you’ve got a little easier. So, and this is for people listening to that might be in chairs, two things.

One’s kind of a mid level and then one’s a more expensive, harder level. Easy level is I bought racing shoes and I bought OMP. I think they’re called first and they’ve got a Velcro strap. That goes around the ankle. I don’t actually close that onto my ankle because I don’t really need it, but I have a piece of Velcro that is kind of screwed down on the diamond plate.

That’s on the bottom of the car. And that just touches my shoe. When I get in the car, the corner worker needs to yank me out. It’s only about two inches worth of Velcro, but it’s very strong, strong enough that the G forces won’t rip that off. But. Not strong enough so that when a corner worker tries to yank me out that it’ll stop anything So that’s kind of the mid level very easy way of doing it The next level up though tim for you is you’re wearing a fire suit.

I’m six [00:34:00] foot five So i’m either gonna have to find a freakishly tall fire suit or i’m gonna have to have one custom made I haven’t gone down that road yet, but i’m terrified of the cost of what it’s gonna cost to I want to put Velcro on the outside of my legs so that I can then Velcro them to different parts of the car where I know my legs are going to be, because if you wrap your legs, meaning wrap them and strap them down, then it’s harder for a corner worker to pull you out.

But if you have one side of fire suit and then the other side on the car, that’s easy enough to tear off. But it’s, it’s strong enough to keep you in while you’re doing the G forces. So you might want to consider that Tim as well. Yeah.

Tim Horrell: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Anything like for both of you, I guess, just the comfort’s the main thing and becoming one with the car for sure.

So it’s definitely something that’s worth looking into. Thank you. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So being the lay person here, I had some thoughts listening to you guys. Cause my MacGyver brain is always working to your point [00:35:00] about the Velcro Velcro seems to be the solution in a lot of cases here. Yeah. But maybe modifying a pair of shoes to have the soles have the hook part of the Velcro.

And think about this in a passenger vehicle, right? HPD, you’re required to take out your floor mats and all that kind of stuff so they don’t slide around. So let’s say the bottom of your shoes had the hook part. You could basically stand your foot, let’s say your, your right leg up. That would be square on the ground and maybe have some fuzzy side of the Velcro fix the dead pedal, and then you’re hooked to the car, basically putting yourself in there with these special shoes that you’ve modified, like something like that, to your point, maybe more of a lower budget idea, not strong enough that if somebody needs to rip you out a car, you need to rip yourself out.

That you could make those mods. So something to think about there, get creative. But I think Velcro is the answer at the end of the day.

Torsten Gross: It’s shoes and it’s knees as well. So your knees not moving that actually, because your knees are heavier than your feet, your knees will tend to, at least for a lot of the people I’ve seen drive will tend to move first, which then move your feet.

If you can [00:36:00] actually mobilize your knees first. It’s different for everybody. That’s the problem. So when we have people hop in the car, it’s a 20 minute to 30 minute conversation, kind of like when you go skiing or when you go biking, or when you quite frankly, even if you’re able bodied, when you get into a race car, you don’t just say, Hey, hop in this race car.

Good luck. You adjust all the straps. You make sure that the car is ready for you. You don’t just kind of say good luck with that. And that’s the same thing for us too, right? Tim’s going to be different than Matteo than me, but we’re all different

Crew Chief Eric: inside of a car. Two questions to add to this that people might be thinking as an example, when you’re in racing, especially, let’s say you’re a rookie, they put an X on your car.

So it denotes that you’re a rookie. Do they put anything special on your guys cars to denote that you do have a disability and to not mess and not to say not to mess with you, but it would be the worst thing in the world to door somebody or cause a shunt. And you’re like, Oh crap, I put them in a situation that was terrible.

They could have been easily avoided. Getting rid of the red Miss, do they make you guys mark your cars [00:37:00] appropriately or No?

Torsten Gross: I tell everybody that we are no different than anybody else on the track because if you think about, we’ve been driving on the street and we have the exact same license that anybody else does, so we get to drive just as well as anybody else does, or just as badly as anybody else does.

The fact that we use hand controls doesn’t make us any better or worse of a driver. It makes us a different driver, but I think why it scares people so much is because it is so foreign to them, to people that don’t do it. So because it’s different, it scares them. When in reality, I look at foot pedal driving and I go, that scares the living beep out of me because I wouldn’t know how to do that.

But hand control driving, it’s come so naturally to me because I’ve been doing it for so long that I’m a great driver just with my hands. I would feel weird if somebody were to say, well, use a disabled driver. To me, it’s um, we’re trying to normalize it. I 100 percent understand why you would ask that question.

And it makes sense. To me, what it is, is it’s not the disability. There needs to be a cutoff of [00:38:00] who can or cannot drive. Once you get to the point that you’re talking about where it’s, Oh, it’s a disabled driver, we should be a little more careful around that person. They shouldn’t be on the track because that means that they’re a quadriplegic that can’t use their triceps or they just don’t have certain function or their spasms are too bad and you know, it would be dangerous on the track.

They shouldn’t be on the track. So no matter what, it needs to be a safety conversation. First. Before anything, and I would say the same thing for somebody able body, if they have seizures or if they have any type of other issues that they can’t control, they shouldn’t be on the track either. No, they just put a big X behind me.

I mean, I don’t know, Tim or Matteo, they did differently for you, but I wouldn’t think they would have.

Tim Horrell: That’s when I started out in the amateur level racing, it’s just like HSR, SVRA, like pushup racing, things like that. I don’t remember anything on my car then, to be honest. Well, I think they put. Something on my car now at the professional level, it’s like a wheelchair picture and I didn’t really want it on the car.

They told me it [00:39:00] really wasn’t for the other drivers or anything like they say you’re safe enough, you’re good enough to race this level, but it’s more so so the corner workers know or something that this car has somebody. I wasn’t going to argue it is what it is at this point and or it’s just like when I pass people then at least they know they got passed by somebody that’s in a wheelchair.

It’s a point of pride. It’s a point of pride. That is perfect. That is perfect. I don’t really want it on the car. I don’t want people to know I’m in a wheelchair. But then if I’m going to be passing on the track anyway, then like, at least you’re going to know you got passed by someone in a wheelchair. So my

Crew Chief Eric: second question is for all of you guys and for all of you.

That I’ve also had experience driving a pedal car before your accidents. One of the questions that comes up a lot and came up even recently before we recorded this was what’s it like to break with your hands? Because your feet have a certain level of feeling and finesse, right? Especially if you’re running a clutch and, you know, heel, toe, downshifting, all this kind of stuff that you feel the pedals and you’re doing certain things and the pressure applied and how you trail break and threshold breaking and all that, what’s it like?

What’s it like braking with your hands? Do you have the [00:40:00] same sort of response or do you get the same sort of feedback from the brakes through your hands and went through your feet? I guess I should

Tim Horrell: mention too, like I also for training for racing, I’d also drive like carts, my coach William Pete’s his name.

He was hurt in a, um, carting accident in Brazil when he was like 18. Now he’s in his 50s, but he developed a whole hand control system on the wheel of a cart. So it’s kind of like a jet ski throttle on your left thumb and then like a crotch rocket or like a street bike master cylinder brake like on your right hand.

Keeping your legs in place for that compared to a car a lot easier. The sheer fact the more g forces, no seatbelts, nothing in a cart and just how more physically abusive it is to your body, it definitely is. It’s much harder than in the car, but it allows me to feel everything. So when, when I go to get in the car, everything’s slowed way down.

All my reaction times are quickened much, much quicker. The brakes are different and the car is the perfect part, but it’s still like the feeling aspects of it. Like I never really drove a car like at that limit, like with my feet. So it’s hard to, I [00:41:00] guess, answer that question fully, but in the car, like I have a lot of travel, I guess, with my brakes.

So I can get a lot of leverage on it as opposed to having just a little bit in a race car. As Torsten mentioned, it’s like a heavy break and I need to match my teammate’s break. He’s doing it with his feet. I’m having to put like 1200 PSI, 1100 PSI into all the heavy breaking zones on the track around the lap, but like the heavy breaking zones, I really have to like lay in a break and push hard, like 1100, 1200, 1300 PSI.

Like the biggest thing where. I struggle to, like, my teammate, Rafa Matos is my teammate, is just being able to not initially hit the brake, the initial threshold brake, but it’s just coming off the brake and carrying as much maximum speed to the apex as possible. That’s where I lose time to him still.

Like, I mean, within like a second of him, but still to carry, like, hit the brake, slow the car down immediately, like, enough just at first, but then trail off the brake while holding the hand with one wheel to carry the speed to get to the apex quicker, if that makes sense. Whereas like our apex speeds are the same.

We go back on power roughly at the same time. It’s just like, that’s the best part of me where I struggle. It’s just like [00:42:00] getting the car slowed down, I guess, efficiently enough. We’re still carrying enough speed to the apex. It’s something that I guess I’ve only learned with my hands. So I guess it’s hard to say what it would be like with my feet, but.

I mean, I drive also in sim racers. I, I don’t have any feeling in that break. I kind of raked it to where it’s kind of very similar to my car.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s okay. Nobody does it. You’re, you’re a good company.

Tim Horrell: I learned car like this way at the race BD, amateur racing, not professional, like to feel with my hand and to feel like when I get into the ABS.

I’ve made it work and still constantly trying to better myself.

Torsten Gross: For me, I play with where the hand controls attached to the brake stem. So depending on the track that I’m at and how hard I need to brake, I’ll either raise it and the higher up it goes, the faster it’s going to break in, right? Because then you only have to push down a little bit.

The further down it goes, the more travel I have in the break. There’s a guy that helps us out. He’s worked on a lot of cars. His name is Eric Harkrader. He’s been helping us transform the Just Hands car. As he should, he starts [00:43:00] using the hand controls just for fun. He comes back after about a week and he’s like, You have more control over the brake with your hands than I do with my feet.

And I was like, well, that’s interesting that you’re saying that somebody that knows a lot about cars because it is such a subtle move with your hand. It is easier than with your foot. And the third thing I’ll say is your hand eye coordination is faster than your hand foot coordination. So you have more sensitivity in your hands.

That you can use to kind of be delicate with your hand controls than you would with your feet. They’re very negligible changes or very minute changes between foot and hands. It took me a while to figure out trailbraking and how I can really trail break now I can do it. So my data is the same as anybody else’s data is like, you wouldn’t be able to see mine.

But I used to come off the brake way too fast, really fast. And then we lowered it down on the brake stem where it attaches. And now you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between me and somebody else. But it’s a very valid question. I mean, [00:44:00] very valid.

Tim Horrell: I have like a pedal box. That’s also mount on the floor.

So it’s not as opposed to like, I guess the hanging pedals like you might have Torsen,

Torsten Gross: right? Yes.

Tim Horrell: So I really can’t move where it’s mounted on the back of the brake pedal. I can’t move it at all. So it’s just that one. Since it’s a floor mounted pedal box.

Torsten Gross: Okay. You just gave me another problem to solve. So sweet.

Another weekend, not talking to my wife. That’s

Crew Chief Eric: great. Well, to your point, Torsten, if there was some sort of thing that you could add, that would work on either hanging pedals or floor pedals, where you could add it to the back of the pedal and say, bolt it on, and it would give you almost like an adjustable sway bar, you know, three or four points.

To mount your hand control, to change the leverage point, right? ’cause that’s what you’re doing is you’re changing that the angle to decrease or increase the leverage on the pedal, then that would work for either of these types of pedal boxes. Just that piece needs to be created.

Tim Horrell: It would have to be like strong enough to also withstand like 1300 PSI and and 1200 PSI press like lap after lap after that.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Like a different story. But where actually hand [00:45:00] control brake on me down in like, um, Miami Homestead Speedway. Which was scary enough that break just like I guess there’s an aluminum part that’s to the pedal and that was like from four hanging pedals, but just wanted to go to the break and it felt like essentially like break was just hanging and dangling.

I feel like I lost my brakes and the pedal went to the floor. It doesn’t make sense. So it’s just something that even though my engineer, like I told him I wanted to race with this team and then basically they developed as quick as they could. And they made it as best as they could. It’s not the best for me, but I’m learning and still adapting to it.

For them, with the amount of time that they had to do it, it’s very good. Maybe my arm could be a little longer, I wish. Make it a little easier to push the brake pedal as hard as I push it, to maybe not fatigue as quick.

Torsten Gross: We’ll talk, because I’m actually chatting with BMW and with Weigel and like the people that do my hand controls.

And we have a conversation going where we can open that up for more. I’m not going to say R and D that gets a little too official to have some conversations where, what can we do? You and I have different functions. So I don’t have much finger function. You have full finger function. So you’re going to have a different control than me.[00:46:00]

Let me see how I can help. I would love to help you. Maybe it’ll help other people too. And that’s all I want to do.

Crew Chief Eric: See, it’s your guy’s version of pedal extenders. You know, we get the bigger ones to do heel toe. It’s, it’s the equivalent, right? But Matteo, do you want to chime in on what it’s like to break with your hands?

Matteo Fontana: Actually, I used hand controls later in life. I feel like for me, it’s a lot easier. It feels easier to break with my hands. I feel like I’m more accurate. Even my response time is faster than when I used to drive with my legs. I feel really comfortable with the hand controls. And now I’m inspired to go explore the system that Thorsten and Tim use, because I think it will definitely be a step up in what I’m doing.

And I think I could be even better.

Torsten Gross: Well, you should come up to the foundation. We’ll give you what you can, you can use our E92 and track our car and you can test them out.

Crew Chief Eric: That would be great. So Tim brought up something really important, 1300 pounds of pressure that he’s putting on that brake pedal to stop the car.

When you’re pushing with your [00:47:00] legs, is it the same amount of pressure? Is that the equivalent amount that you’re able to produce by stepping on the pedal? Or do you actually generate more force because more muscles are involved coming out of your shoulder, your lats, your tris, et cetera, by ramming down on that arm and pushing the brake pedal?

Is there really an equivalent same

Tim Horrell: brake pedal pushing? Like when my teammate pushes the brake pedal, the hand control moves, you can see it in our onboard video, just really only like how they mount on the pedal. And I guess it’s, it’s harder from my standpoint with the floor amount of pedals. It all depends on how long they make the bar coming towards me, how long I guess they make the horizontal bar and get me leverage, but I still have to push the pedal down as hard as him.

I guess you might say like, I have more. Feeling I may have quicker reaction time with my hand, because like Torsten was saying, your hand to eye coordination is quicker than your hand to feet. I’m doing it with less muscles than him. He has his whole glute muscle, his whole hamstring, his whole leg, which is one of the biggest muscles in your body.

I’m just doing with my shoulder and my tricep. That’s why I go to the gym a lot, like maybe five days a week, and it’s something that [00:48:00] To do at this level professional level where I’m trying to be as close as I can to an IndyCar driver is something that I have to like work on like day in and day in and day out like just not something I do for just a track weekend thing it’s something that like become my passion and I’m trying to push as far as I can and move as far as I can so if something requires me to get a little better on the brake it’s something that I still maybe have to learn or further myself into more time.

Crew Chief Eric: And I think to expand my question to clarify what I’m thinking is. Hopefully on the behalf of my listeners is, is it actually harder? Are you working more to break with your hands and your arms than you would be with your leg? Because when you drive a car to stop a car with your legs, it seems so simple, push the pedal car slows down, but I don’t know how much force I’m actually exerting on the pedal.

You guys are actually further back, right? There’s all the physics involved in this forces and distance and whatnot. So I’m wondering, are you actually working harder to produce the same amount of. Physical work

Tim Horrell: is on the hand control and how they’re mounted. [00:49:00]

Torsten Gross: That’s a hundred percent. Tim nailed it on the head.

Cause for me, the way my Vigil’s work, it’s kind of on a hinge. I’m breaking on a dime without really trying. I’m actually not even using my full arm. All I do is I lift my wrist. And that fully breaks it versus pushing full forward with my shoulder, my tricep. And so I readjusted my drive style from road driving to track driving in order to finesse it more, which I have a video on YouTube for those people who want to see that.

But I’ve changed my drive style because I wanted to get more detailed with my input and not have to exert energy because the biggest thing I was worried about was energy exertion. And Tim, I hear you loud and clear. When you go to the gym on the other side of this wall, you guys know what a tonal is, you know, that the workout machine that you put on the wall.

We got a tonal and I’m in there every single day. And I’m, I’m, you know, hand cycling all the time because from a fatigue perspective, walking or not driving is you exert a lot of [00:50:00] energy, you know, regardless of what appendages you use. I work out a ton as well, because Tim, to your point, weekend warriors is one thing I want to be more than that.

So I’m going to work out to the level that I want to be. Exactly.

Matteo Fontana: Torsten, for the gas, do you have a vacuum assist? Nope.

Torsten Gross: Have you ever heard of that? Yes, I have. No, mine, mine actually and Tim, we, we don’t bypass the gas. So there are two rods that attach to the brake and to the gas pedal. And when I turn gas, And push forward for brake.

And the reason for that was why I really like having it not bypass the pedal is one, I have a little more feedback. So the car is giving feedback into the gas pedal as well. So I’m feeling that in the gas when I’m turning. You don’t get that when you do drive by wire, when it just goes wired in. So that’s why I wanted that.

And number two, if something goes belly up on the track, I actually want a track worker to be able to drive my car and not have to think about flipping a switch. So if they pull me [00:51:00] out, what do they now do with the car? That is such an infinitesimal little example, right? Like, will that ever happen? Most likely never, ever, but it’s the one time where I’m not thinking about it or it happens.

That it will happen. We never plan for things we don’t plan for. So that’s why we left it there. Now, everybody can still drive my car. The foot pedals are active. Anyone can jump in and drive it and it wouldn’t be an issue for them. They actually wouldn’t know that it’s attached. But again, this is what fascinates me about this conversation.

In general about hand controls is that there are so many different types because of so many different disabilities, so many different people that have made it for different reasons for different cars, it makes it very difficult for a group like ours to get into this sport because we could have this conversation for the next eight hours, just the three of us talking about our hand controls going.

What do you do? Well, let me tell you what I do. Well, how can I help you? Well, you should help me doing this. That becomes very difficult. It’s fascinating to me. I

Matteo Fontana: kind of love it. I mean, my cars, both of my cars, they have two [00:52:00] different types of hand controls. And both of my cars can be driven normally with the feet because my wife drives my cars too.

Torsten Gross: Yep. You know, I wanted

Matteo Fontana: my hand controls to feel as natural as you would, if you were driving it with your feet. You know, I don’t want any delay or anything like that. That’s why I hesitated. I stuck it out as long as I could to drive with my legs. I wasn’t sure, but then, you know, I ran into this great hand control developer and he said, look, I’ll put you in a couple of my cars.

You can test them. I have different hand controls in each one and you see which one you like, but you’ll see the response time is no different than driving with your feet. He convinced me.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think we need to go back for a moment before we transition into our last segment and talk about maybe some of your guys pet peeves about being on track, especially with hand controls.

Like we briefly touched upon passing and how complicated that can be and turn signals and things like that. And, you know, there’s a few of us in GTM that have had the privilege of [00:53:00] coaching Matteo, myself included. To be honest, he’s so smooth that you can’t tell the difference. He’s a hundred percent, right.

He’s been doing it forever. And if you didn’t tell me and I just. You know, hopped in the right seat and be like, okay, let’s go. Let’s go. Obviously the challenge always occurs when you’re coming up on another car, offline passing, or giving somebody else a pass, I found it to be a similar and rewarding experience.

Like I had teaching a right hand drive car for the first time where I’m in the driver’s position and going, what do I do now? Which was awkwardly confusing. It’s like wearing your shoes on the wrong feet. You know, that kind of thing. I don’t want it to come across that way when you’re teaching, you know, somebody with hand controls.

It is exactly the same. The car feels the same. It reacts the same. It’s the drivers using different tools to get the car around the track. So that’s just a little bit of advice I’m passing on to any coaches that are listening to this. But I do want to go back and talk about some of your guys pet peeves, some of the challenges you’ve had coming up through the different programs and some advice for folks that want to get into this for the first time.[00:54:00]

Torsten Gross: Eric, can I just thank you first for putting it the way you just did?

Crew Chief Eric: And I say that

Torsten Gross: sincerely, because treating us as normal is kind of the MO here. I’ve seen way too many novices out there that what will they do right before they do a point by? They’ll jam on the brakes. Like, they’ll actually jam on the brakes hard, then do a point by because they’re like, well, I had to slow down in order to point them by because they needed to go around me.

Well, they’re not in a wheelchair yet. One of the worst things you can do, you’re on the line and there are people behind you and let’s just jam on the brakes. Well, I thought that’s what I was supposed to do. And you just put it right. That it might just be different, but only thing I can add to that, what you said, which I think was spot on is never, ever be scared to ask.

I think there’s such a stigma. about asking questions. Without asking creates assumption. I think the three of us now have all talked about how easy it is to break. I’m pretty sure that’s going to come to a surprise to most people that are [00:55:00] listening to this, that we have such finesse when we’re breaking how easy it is to use your hand controls.

If you’re in a wheelchair, that might come to a surprise to people because they’re not used to it. It’s because we’re making assumptions about other people. When we don’t actually know, I think it’s okay to say, I have no idea how you do this. Can you tell me, and guess what? I love to talk about it and I think it’s great.

And I want to show other people, and I want to hear about their experiences too, because just cause they use their feet doesn’t mean I can’t learn from them. Right. So I’m asking them about heel toe, because it means that I can learn how to hit the throttle while I’m braking at the same time, which is also why I chose my hand controls so I can rev it differently and hop into a different gear with a DCT.

So one of the biggest pet peeve is not asking questions, being too nervous to offend us. You’re not going to offend me. We’re not dainty little flowers. We’re not snowflakes that are going to melt, you know, when we get a drop of water on us. We’re there [00:56:00] that are going to race our cars and we’re going to try and beat you just like you’re going to try and beat us.

We’re going to gloat when we get off the track and we’re going to tell you how much better we are. It is the exact same. And so we’re not there to be treated any different. And I think that’s the biggest thing for me. When somebody wants to knock us down a peg and put a wheelchair symbol on the back of your car, I guarantee you that no track worker that is running toward a flaming car is going to look at the back of Tim’s car and go, well, guys, hold on a sec.

Because there’s a wheelchair symbol on the back there. So let’s open the door differently and let’s ask him how he’s feeling before we take them out. That’s not, you just pull somebody out. There is a woman named Kathy at SCCA who, she’s just really blunt with me. It’s great. And she’s like, no, here’s what we’re going to do.

And I’m like, okay, cool. There’s no difference. So I’d say my biggest pet peeve is not asking and making assumptions. And then the second thing is there’s a statement that works for a lot of minorities and that’s never for us without us. [00:57:00] So there are a lot of people that are creating things or trying to make rules for people in chairs.

Without people in chairs representing the conversation. And again, that is making assumptions for a group of people that they know nothing about. I haven’t been in a chair my whole life. I don’t expect anybody to know what it’s like to be in a chair. I can’t because I didn’t know what it was like to be in a chair.

As long as you have somebody sitting there and say, Tim, what do you think? And if Tim go, yeah, I agree. Or Mateo saying, no, I think that’s a little wrong. That, to me, is kind of where it should go.

Tim Horrell: I guess I understand what you’re saying with the stick in the back of the car. Like, it wasn’t something I asked for, and I just, like, kind of walked up to the car when they were putting them on, like, what are they going on there for?

And they’re like, oh, like, well, the Sirius wants it, and yadda yadda yadda, and I just, I was too busy, I guess, with other things and focusing on my driving in order to worry about it. It gives you five extra

Crew Chief Eric: horsepower with the sticker of the slalom. A

Tim Horrell: lot of competitors come up to me and like, they come up and they say, Oh wow, we, we think it’s great what you’re doing.

You’re still out there. You’re still loving, [00:58:00] still enjoying this passion. Like we’re enjoying it. You’re just doing it a different way. I don’t think anybody looks at it negatively or they definitely don’t like take it easy on me because it’s on there. They still bump into you or push you off the track because it’s professional racing, but it’s.

anything. I don’t really know if I have any per se, maybe because all the people I’ve been in the racing world and going up in the D world that just have just been so like equal minded on what we’re trying to do. This is the same thing we’re going to go fast on the track. So it’s, and everybody’s kind of embraced me with open arms.

So it’s, it hasn’t been really any negative towards me. It’s always been my happy, positive place.

Torsten Gross: You know, Eric, I feel like I’ve been, I’ve been a negative Nelly here. I do actually want to agree with Tim on this one. I would say if I’m looking at percentages, I’m talking right now about a small group of people that tend to be loud, you know, and HPD ease because they want to puff their chest.

Thinking that they are the best drivers in the world and that they know better. When Tim, to your point, especially in the pro ranks and, and all the way up there in those ranks, there has been nothing but [00:59:00] respect from people that are really good drivers that I know that have looked at me and been like, let’s just figure this stuff out.

And let’s make it work. If you’re gonna lose, you’re gonna lose. If you’re gonna win, you’re gonna win. I’d say more people that I respect are like that. It’s the people that I don’t respect that are weakened warriors that think they’re better than they are. They’re the ones who are trying to put the stiff arm up in the weirdest ways.

Tim Horrell: I guess that’s just normally that kind of mentality though. It’s just

Torsten Gross: It’s very fair.

Tim Horrell: And I mean, I thought they were the best out there too. And so I met some of the pro drivers that came in, like maybe to coach for the weekend. And they were like six seconds, five seconds quicker than them. When I saw that, I was like, well, that that’s what I want to do.

That’s what I want to be. I love

Torsten Gross: that.

Matteo Fontana: I gotta say that, you know, and I think the way I’ve been treated in life, I don’t feel like I’ve ever been treated any different than, than I was when I didn’t break my neck. But I also think a lot of times it’s on you. You got to make the people feel comfortable around you.

It’s also the way you act. makes people feel comfortable or uncomfortable around you, [01:00:00] or maybe I’ve just been fortunate as far as the car clubs with Eric and all the guys that are around him have always treated me equally and they’ve never made me feel uncomfortable. I probably would have nailed somebody with my wheelchair if they put a wheelchair sign on my car, you know, with the foot pegs or something, you know,

Torsten Gross: I

Matteo Fontana: don’t even think they ever thought of doing that.

Eric would probably say that would mess up the look of the car, you know, putting it just wouldn’t look right.

Crew Chief Eric: But that’s actually a great point. I bring that up because one of the things I want coaches to be mindful of, regardless of if you’re working with disabled people or other minorities or whatever, is never be patronizing.

That’s probably the bigger mistake you can make. Our jobs are to keep every driver safe. Hopefully they have fun. And at the end of the day, learn something. My guarantee has always been, I will make you faster and no ways ever asked for a refund before. And that’s the truth. I get in the right seat with you.

I’m working with you. It’s my goal to [01:01:00] adapt and overcome to whatever situation is presented with me. And as a coach, especially doing this for 10 years now as a DE coach and so on. You’ll learn a lot and you’ll learn it at a hundred miles an hour. Right? So for me, blue, purple Klingon in a wheelchair or not, it’s all the same.

We’re in a car, we’re learning something. We’re having fun. But I think that also segues us into how the Just Hands Racing Foundation is changing the way we look at folks in your situation. So I want to turn it over to Torsten to talk about the program, what you guys are doing, how you’re bringing out new drivers and things like that.

Torsten Gross: Yeah, I appreciate it. So our mission. started and still is by the way, it’s taken a little bit of a turn is giving anybody who uses hand controls as their daily driver the opportunity for performance driving. It’s that simple. People can say to me, yes, but you can bring your daily driver onto an HPD track.

Why can’t somebody in a wheelchair do the same thing? Well, my response is if something Does happen on a track for the one time that it does, we [01:02:00] can’t go to a friend and say, Hey, can I borrow your car for a week while mine’s being fixed? Right? No hand controls. It’s harder to go to Hertz or Avis and get a rental car.

So we tend to be a little bit more passive, I guess, or thoughtful about our everyday car in case something goes wrong. Cause again, we can’t get a replacement that easily. So we decided to buy an E92. And we decked it out so it’s fully stripped. It’s got roll cage, diamond plated floors for the straps to be able to go in.

Thanks to AMT, Mark over at AMT, we have fire suppression that he got us, which is amazing. HMS has given us almost all the safety stuff from seatbelts to helmet. And track comms, like they’ve been nothing but amazing to work with. I donated the seats to put in there. We have removable steering wheel. The removable steering wheel is one easier to get in and out for people who don’t know how to get in and out of a race car, but also we have a deep dish and a spacer, it brings it [01:03:00] closer to the driver, the steering wheel, because the closer you are to the steering wheel, the more you’re using your shoulders.

Versus using your arms if it’s straight out a bent arm always better than a straight arm. So the closer that the wheel is with a dish, the better you are as a driver. And also, if you think about it, you guys as able bodied drivers, if you have two hands on the wheel, you’re pulling into the turn, which means that you’re going in your back.

For us, we’re pushing into the turn. We’re pushing up into the wheel. So we’re using more shoulders and tries for a lot of the turn by making a deep dish steering will bring it closer to you. It removes a lot of fatigue. For that. So I very, very little fatigue at the end of a very long session, like an hour long session, the last thing for the car, we have dual hand controls, so we have left and right side hand controls.

So depending on what you are familiar with in your everyday driver, what you use, that is the hand controls that we will make active. Now, if you choose to use the other hand control, so if you’re left throttle, but you want to try right [01:04:00] first, we’re going to start you on autocross. I’m not putting you on a main track to learn how to do something that’s dangerous.

That’s like learning how to do stick shift for the first time ever, and then getting onto a track going 100 miles an hour. It’s inappropriate. So we get anybody out onto a track, and there are three different offerings that we have. One is HPDE, what we’ve talked about. So we join sanctioning bodies like Audi, any Q as CCA BMW car club, whomever, usually here at Lime Rock.

Cause this is where we started. Although we’re going to do East coast stuff very soon. And we get a novice slot. They are treated just like anybody else. They just happen to be in a car with a really cool livery on it. They’re treated just like anybody else would an instructor in novice group. That’s number one.

Number two is autocross. So those are people that might not be ready to go on to a track or somebody that wants to learn how to balance the car or somebody who just think autocross is more fun for them than HPDE is. Whatever their flavor, they then do autocross. And then the third [01:05:00] one is ride alongs. As a quad, I can tell you that there have been some sports where I just can’t participate in.

I didn’t want anyone ever to feel left out. So I thought, well, why don’t we throw somebody in the right seat that get them to experience it, even if they can’t do it. Because even sitting on the side seat gives you the thrill, not just if you’re driving, but also if you’re driving with somebody who will scare the crap out of you.

And so those are the three offerings that we have, which is really cool. And that is just hands.

Tim Horrell: Yeah, that’s awesome. I never really had that, or I never knew there was organizations like that, really, when I started to get into racing.

Torsten Gross: They don’t exist, which is the problem, Tim, and that’s why we started this.

Glad you said that, that you didn’t know it’s out there. It is for that reason that we started this, because it is so difficult to get in the sport. This is coming out of the mouth of somebody who, you know, races in SRO and has reached such high levels. You’ve had to go through more stuff to get into it, had more gumption to get into it.

You have the resolve to do that. It’s very difficult [01:06:00] for, you know, just everybody to go do that. So I give you credit for getting to where you are.

Tim Horrell: Oh, thank you. Thank you. But it’s something that I don’t want to take credit for because it’s something that so many people have helped me out along the way.

I’ve had great people, like, initially from my PCA, like, Reasons Outer Region, which is near Pennsylvania. I’ve had, like I said, the Leighton Pace help me get into racing, and then my karting coach, like, Willie Pete’s, like, like, I, I wouldn’t be where I am today without him. Because when I first got into a race car, it’s not like a street car.

It doesn’t talk to you, the tires don’t talk to you, the traction control, like, it says it’s on, but it’s not really on like a street car. The brakes are different. Everything feels different. And then like a card is the most close thing you can get like to getting all that feeling and really like improving your driving to the next level.

If you really want to be serious with racing and go to professional levels and, and like carding is like a great place to start and there’s options. Even for paraplegic people within carding as well. And just to get into the sport and if you just want a taste of it and just enjoy it, like a lot of people want to do, it’s good with [01:07:00] what you’re doing, I think, to really show people that that option’s out there for them.

Torsten Gross: If I may just tell a quick story, something that now has happened twice. I think it was you Matteo said you had a grin from ear to ear when you came off the track and I think that’s what everybody has and then I had a woman who came up to me and there’s actually now happened a couple times one very explicitly and one implicitly and she’s crying and she said you have to know two things.

One, he has not been mobile for too long, and now he’s on a racetrack. That means a lot to us, so thank you. But two, they had their 12 year old son there. And fathers to sons are heroes. They’re unbreakable, they’re unflappable, they’re unmovable. When he landed in a wheelchair, this 12 year old lost the hero status for his father.

They came to the track, it was the three of them. He gets off the track. The son kept saying, I want to be like daddy. I want to be a race car [01:08:00] driver. The wife had said, you brought back hero to my husband, something that my son had lost. It was that moment. I, first off, I was like, you got to walk away. I’m going to start crying.

But it was that moment that I realized seeing and experiencing this is just as impactful for the person that is in the wheelchair. As it is for those who are in the family and around the person in the wheelchair. And to have the son bring back a feeling that he hadn’t had before, because he saw him on track, meant so much to me.

We knew that after the second person who had told me that, two different experiences, we realized, We’re doing something that’s better than just getting somebody into a novice HPDE and experiencing a track. Although that is pretty awesome. I think we can all say that as well, but it’s bigger than that.

And it meant a lot to me. And so we realized we were on the right path. That’s awesome. Great story.

Matteo Fontana: I just wanted to know, do you need to have like track insurance for doing

Torsten Gross: what you do? So this is probably a bigger conversation than this [01:09:00] podcast, right? It’s a whole new podcast to talk about should you have it.

So we as a foundation have it. We have it both from a liability. We, we use Hagerty insurance for our track. Then the track has insurance and the sanctioning body has insurance. Then sign a waiver. So there is just like any sanctioning body that Audi would have to go through, you know, for liability and protection.

We do the exact same thing. Yeah. Not because people are in chairs, but because it’s the right thing to do. It protects them too. If something goes wrong with them, we have the ability to help them as well, which also the right thing to do. While I can talk about loss of property and say, that’s sad. I really don’t care about the car.

I care about the people inside the car, which is also why we went way overboard with safety equipment. We had said, let’s build a safe car and then make it go fast. Let’s not build a fast car and then add some safety to it, right? We started with the safety stuff. So the answer is yes, we, we definitely have insurance and I have it for my personal cars as well, track insurance.

Crew Chief Eric: So if Matteo wanted to [01:10:00] come up and drive the just hands BMW, how does he set that up? How does he make the arrangements? What does it cost?

Torsten Gross: So I’m going to change that to if he wants to and it’s going to be when he comes up and does the just hands experience. This podcast is going to remove any options.

So anybody listening, if you ask Matteo, has he done just hands? And he said, no, let’s give him some, uh, some flack for that. We work with the sanctioning bodies and we, I’ve looked at now the calendar, thanks to HPD junkie and, uh, looked at the calendar and said, what’s near us. Thompson, Lime Rock, Palmer. At some point, we’re going to be going a little more north, maybe down to Jersey 2.

Where can I get a novice slot? And so the way it works is, anybody who uses hand controls and has full triceps can drive the car, meaning they have to be able to transfer into the car. by themselves without a sliding board. So no aid. And that is because when you’re going through a turn, we all know you’ve got to be strong and you’ve got to be able to push through a turn.

There are quadriplegics who don’t have triceps. [01:11:00] That to me is proof that they don’t have enough triceps to go through a turn. And that stinks for me to say that they can’t do it. But it’s a safety conversation. It is not a pity conversation. The first thing we do is we have a conversation. I say, Mateo, tell me a little bit about your disability.

You know, what can you use? What kind of hand controls do you drive? What’s your experience? Once we get that down, what do you want to do? Do you want to do HPDE or do you want to do autocross or do you want to do a ride along? Once I figure that out, I then go and get a slot at what are the sanctioning bodies?

And a lot of them we already have. I then say, alright, on September X, come on up. It is 100% free. So you show up and we give you your Hans. device after Hans. I don’t care if it is mandated or not by the HPD. You have to wear a Hans. It’s just the right thing to do. We have a couple of helmets that you try on.

You then drive the car around the paddock for a little bit, just because every car is always a little different, kind of like you would do within the ride and drive car, see how the clutch works, you know, and [01:12:00] all that kind of stuff just for a little bit. And then you join the group, meaning you’re just like any other driver, you get your instructor, they come into the car with you and you are now ready to go.

So that is how he’s going to do it with just hands.

Crew Chief Eric: I heard it’s going to be at the October Emra event at Lime Rock there, Mateo.

Torsten Gross: Oh, that’s look, Corey, if you’re listening, we won a slot and that’s my birthday weekend. I think it’s October 16th. That

Crew Chief Eric: being said, what does the next one to five years look like for the just hands foundation?

I hear from a little birdie, some rumors that you guys might be going to spa.

Torsten Gross: So yeah, RSR, the big track to arrive and drive company that does Nuremberg ring and spa. And I contacted them and I showed them how easy it is to put hand controls in. And I connected them with the people that make my hand controls and how cheap it is to put that in.

And, you know, mathematically it takes two and a half rentals. For them to make their money back and you can actually [01:13:00] remove the hand control. So able bodied people would never actually know that they’re in there. So two and a half. So financially speaking, it works out perfectly for them. As long as they have two and a half people, which they will.

August 10th and 11th, I will be doing spa and Nuremberg ring. Which I am excited and terrified at the same time. I heard Tim wants to go with you. Yeah, that’d be pretty cool. They have a, a BMW M240 IR and they have a Golf R both, you know, massively track modified to be race cars to answer your second question, what’s the next one to five years, we’re most likely going to be working with a big racing school in this country to put in hand controls around the country.

We then also want to act as, I’m going to use the word consultants, and that is like we did for RSR. Here’s how easy it is to put them in. It takes five minutes to put them in or take them out. Here are the three things you need, and here’s how easy it’s going to be. And show different arrive and drive companies [01:14:00] around this country and maybe around the world.

I don’t want to get too big for our britches, but if we can create a just hands brand, that means that as we’ve proven here, there’s a lot of nerves about what type of hand controls are in a car and can I use them? And are they right? If you have a just hands kind of brand on it, you know what you’re getting when you go to different track.

When you have a just hands program, you’re getting either a right or left hand control or both. It gives people in chairs ease of saying, Oh, I’m not going to show up and it’s going to be something different. I’ve heard some war stories and I’m not going to say names or places where they’ve had really bad hand controls and people have left the school or the arrived drive because they didn’t feel comfortable.

And I think still having more cars that we can use in different places. So that’s kind of one to five.

Crew Chief Eric: So the big question for all of us able bodied folks is how can we help? Are there ways that we can contribute and share in the Just Hands experience? What is it you need from us? How can we be of service?

Torsten Gross: Oh, [01:15:00] I love that question because it’s so broad and big and, and we definitely need it. The first one’s money donations always help. And that’s whether it’s 20 or a thousand dollars or anything in between. It really doesn’t matter. A hundred bucks gives us gas for the weekend and whatnot. And so it’s a free, but that’s always number one, but I don’t count on that.

The other things they’re smaller, but they’re just as important. Are people going from the Northeast somewhere? So do they have an extra spot on their trailer where they can help trailer our car if we went to Watkins or if we went to New Jersey or VIR? Let us know if you have a spot. The second thing is, if you are part of a sanctioning body like an Audi or a BMW club or a PCA, give us a call and say we’ll give you a novice slot.

Whether it’s for autocross or for HPDE and come join in on the fun and just donate one of those. Those I think are the three biggest ones, money, trailing the car and giving us spots. We have so many reservations. We have [01:16:00] not done any publicity. We already have 70 signups within a month and a half. I don’t know how I’m going to fill those.

So anybody who says that there’s no demand, I’m more than happy to ask them to help and get me another car to do this. Okay.

Crew Chief Eric: So that brings up a really good point. Maybe there’s some folks out there that would be willing to, let’s say, use their spec Miata or some other car and have hand controls adapted to it to make it part of the just hands fleet.

Is that something you’ve considered? Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge for folks out there that are thinking this right now?

Torsten Gross: I didn’t even go that far because I think that’s such a huge thing to ask, but you are 100 percent right because you can remove the hand controls and no one would know. That would be, wow, such a wonderful idea.

Crew Chief Eric: So folks, if you’re interested in doing that, maybe you got an older race car or one that you put not as many laps on these days, something to consider, you know, reach out to Torsten on how to do that, how easy it is to be able to make these cars available at different tracks around the country, you know, not just in the Northeast.

I would also ask. [01:17:00] Torsten, for us coaches, would it be useful for us to drive a hand control car with the hand controls to get a better understanding of what you guys are up against when you’re out there doing your laps?

Torsten Gross: Oh, yes. I love that question. I did that for a group of people and they were so thankful to do it.

And actually, funny enough, they came back saying how easy it was. They were shocked at how simple it was. But yes, I would be more than happy to sit side seat and tell them, stop moving your legs and we’ll tape down their legs so that they can’t use pedals. But that would be great. Even if they didn’t want to teach people in chairs, just to understand what it’s like to be in somebody else’s shoes, right?

And that’s not just disabled. That’s anything understanding what somebody else goes through in life is so important. So I think that’d be great.

Crew Chief Eric: So gentlemen, as we close out here, any shout outs, promotions, or any other items or things that you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Tim Horrell: Well, I don’t have any sponsors yet.

So I need to ask for, give me a good car this year. [01:18:00] We’re still trying. We have a lot of work to do still to get a little more competitive. I guess it’s just my carding coach. I can’t thank him enough. Like William Pete’s my teammate this year, like Rafa Matos. He’s helped me a lot get quicker in the car.

Matteo Fontana: Well, I’d like to give a shout out first to Eric to get me back into it, but secondly, to drivingaids. com, which is the owner of that company, it’s the hand control company that put the hand controls in both of my cars, but more importantly, put the one in the TT that I’m able to race in. Lee Perry’s the owner and he did a great job and he he really customized it to the way I wanted it and position wise and everything so that I could do what I love doing

Torsten Gross: for me.

I’ll rattle through the mobility innovations and Feigl for doing the hand controls. I think Lime Rock Park has been nothing but I mean, first off, Beautiful track. Amazing track, but they’ve been so supportive of us by helping us at every single turn FCP euro HMS, which I mentioned Sharon auto sport, Hancock [01:19:00] tires.

Audi any Q is the first one that allowed us on the track. We did our event with them and Eric and Alex and that group have been nothing but. stellar and amazing and I can’t be more appreciative of them. We’re just so grateful in general and so thank you if I missed anybody. Thank you guys for being part of this journey with us.

It’s humbling and exciting at the same time.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s very important for all of us to remember that motorsports is one of the only sports that makes everyone equal, no matter what appendages you use to drive. So if you or someone in your life is disabled driving with hand controls and would love nothing more than to get on track, please be sure to reach out to Torsten and the Just Hands Racing Foundation at www.

justhandsfoundation. org or follow them on Instagram at justhandsracing. You can follow Tim’s progress as part of Fast Track Racing via the SRO Motorsports website. site, www. gtamerica. us. And for those of you that are GTMers [01:20:00] out there listening, you can always hang out with Mateo at any of the upcoming events that we’re going to be at.

And maybe we’ll see him at a just hands racing event in the near future. We want to thank everybody, Mateo, Tim and Torsten for coming on the show and sharing their unique experiences behind the wheel. So I cannot thank you guys enough for coming on break fix.

Torsten Gross: And thank you, Eric, for giving us the opportunity to talk about something that is pretty important and it’s people like you that allow us to kind of change the ratio.

And so we really appreciate that.

Tim Horrell: Yeah, thanks for thinking of me and coming up to me at the track and making me a part of this. Thank you. Thank you,

Crew Chief Eric: Eric.

Tim Horrell: My

Crew Chief Eric: pleasure, guys.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or [01:21:00] send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be [01:22:00] possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
  • 00:27 Challenges Faced by Disabled Athletes
  • 00:52 Just Hands Racing Foundation
  • 01:03 Meet the Guests: Torsten, Mateo, and Tim
  • 01:47 Tim’s Accident and Recovery
  • 03:15 Torsten’s Accident and Recovery
  • 04:25 Mateo’s Accident and Recovery
  • 07:18 Pursuing Hobbies and Sports Post-Accident
  • 11:24 Getting into Motorsports
  • 20:50 Hand Controls and Vehicle Modifications
  • 41:54 Challenges of Hand Controls in Racing
  • 42:32 Adapting to Hand Controls
  • 42:58 Innovations and Assistance
  • 43:18 Comparing Hand and Foot Controls
  • 44:00 Training and Techniques
  • 52:41 Pet Peeves and Misconceptions
  • 01:01:17 Just Hands Racing Foundation
  • 01:12:27 Future Plans and How to Help
  • 01:17:48 Final Thoughts and Acknowledgements

Bonus Content

Learn More

Just Hands Racing Foundation Logo

Please be sure to reach out to the Just Hands Racing Foundation at www.justhands.org or follow them on instagram @torstenfgross – You can follow Tim’s progress as part of Fast Track Racing via the SRO motorsports website www.gtamerica.us. And for GTM’ers you get to hang with Matteo at many upcoming events, and maybe we’ll see him at a JHR event in the near future. 

Driving with hand controls isn’t just possible—it’s precise. The trio breaks down the different systems:

Control TypeDescription
Left steer / Right throttleCommon in Europe; preferred for fatigue and body alignment.
Right steer / Left throttleMore common in the U.S.; often used in daily drivers.
Guido SimplexFully integrated into the steering wheel; used by pros like Alex Zanardi.
Rock ThrottlePull for gas, push for brake; mounted close to the wheel for control.
Kempf SystemThrottle ring with thumb control; allows paddle shifting and full wheel grip.

They also discuss safety modifications – Velcro straps, custom seats, fire suppression systems, and egress drills – all designed to ensure drivers can compete safely and confidently.

One of the most powerful takeaways? These drivers don’t want pity—they want parity. As Torsten puts it: “We’re not dainty little flowers. We’re going to race our cars and try to beat you – just like you’re going to try and beat us.”

They emphasize that hand control drivers are just as capable, competitive, and safe as anyone else on track. The real challenge is standardization and education – getting instructors, sanctioning bodies, and fellow racers to understand and embrace the technology.

Photo courtesy Just Hands Racing Foundation

Just Hands Racing: A Movement in Motion

The Just Hands Racing Foundation is more than a nonprofit—it’s a gateway. Their mission:

  • Provide arrive-and-drive opportunities for hand control users.
  • Offer HPDE, autocross, and ride-along experiences.
  • Build a fleet of dual-control cars for left- and right-hand drivers.
  • Act as consultants to racing schools and track day organizations.
  • Expand nationally and internationally, with events planned at Spa and Nürburgring.

And yes, it’s all free for participants. How You Can HelpTorsten and the team are calling on the motorsports community:

  • Donate: Every dollar helps fuel the mission.
  • Tow: Got trailer space? Help move the Just Hands car to events.
  • Host: Sanctioning bodies can offer novice slots for Just Hands drivers.
  • Share: Got a spec Miata or unused race car? Consider adapting it for hand controls.
  • Learn: Instructors can try driving with hand controls to better coach disabled drivers.

From sponsors like HMS, FCP Euro, and Audi NEQ to coaches, teammates, and family members, the gratitude runs deep. But the message is clear: motorsports is for everyone.

If you or someone in your life drives with hand controls and dreams of getting on track, reach out to Just Hands Racing Foundation at justhandsfoundation.org or follow them on instagram @justhandsracing.


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Motoring Podcast Network

Behind the Gavel: How GAA Classic Car Auctions Is Changing the Collector Car Game

Classic car auctions have long been seen as the playground of the ultra-wealthy – glamorous events where six-figure bids fly and vintage Ferraris change hands like poker chips. But Johnny Ransom, General Manager of GAA Classic Car Auctions, is here to tell you that’s only part of the story. In a recent episode of the Break/Fix podcast, Johnny sat down with Crew Chief Eric and co-host Don Weberg of Garage Style Magazine to share how GAA is making the auction experience more accessible, more personal, and more exciting than ever.

Photo courtesy GAA Auctions

Johnny didn’t start in the car world. He began his career in North Carolina’s furniture industry, where he quickly earned a reputation as a people-first manager. A chance encounter with a retiring colleague led him to Greensboro Auto Auction, where he worked his way up through fleet operations, paint and body, and auction control. His hands-on experience with everything from carburetors to recon gave him the foundation to help launch GAA Classic Car Auctions in 2012.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

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Unlike traveling auction companies that set up temporary events across the country, GAA keeps things local. Their facility – affectionately called “The Palace” – spans six and a half acres under one climate-controlled roof in Greensboro, NC. With seating for 600 and space for hundreds of cars, it’s more than an auction – it’s a destination.

What sets GAA apart is its flexibility. Sellers can ship their cars to the facility weeks in advance, knowing they’ll be stored securely. Johnny estimates that for their upcoming November sale, nearly 290 cars are already on-site.

Photo courtesy GAA Auctions

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we delve into the world of classic and collector car auctions with Johnny Ransom, General Manager of GAA Classic Car Auctions. Johnny shares his journey from the furniture industry to becoming a key figure in the automotive auction scene. He discusses the unique aspects of GAA’s auctions, such as their climate-controlled facility and memorandum sales. The episode covers tips for first-time auction-goers, the process of buying and selling at auctions, and the expansion plans for GAA, including introducing a new memorabilia sale. Johnny also highlights the importance of car authenticity and how GAA ensures smooth title transfers. The podcast sheds light on the dynamics of the auction world, emphasizing the communal and exhilarating experience it offers both buyers and sellers.

  • One of the newest and hottest classic and collector car auctions on the market right now. How did GAA get started? Tell us about its history.
  • You have an all-indoor venue known as “The Palace.”   With 6-acres under one roof, how many cars can GAA accommodate? How many guests? Are there things to do for friends & Family that might be “dragged along” to an auction?
  • Is there a genre of vehicle GAA specializes in?  Muscle cars, exotics, classics, foreign/domestic? 
  • Any famous “auctioneers” on the GAA team?
  • What are things that the first-timer should know before attending an event? What are some do’s and don’t for a first time Auction goer? Expectations?
  • Walk us through the selling process? What is needed to list and sell an item with GAA?
  • One of the “drawbacks” we’ve heard that causes people to shy away from Auctions comes when the bidding gets out of control and then you have to pay a 5-10% auction house premium. With prices so high, why would someone go to an auction to get a car? What is the advantage of an auction over a private or brokered sale?
  • In recent years especially, we’ve seen a lot of new auction companies pop up online, selling cars via the internet.  What are the benefits of this format? What are the drawbacks?
  • What do you see as the hot trend right now in sales? Where do you think the market is going?  What do you see as the next big thing?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us, because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to us in part by Garage Style Magazine. Since 2007, Garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors, continually delivering information about automobilia, petroleana, and more.

To learn more about the annual publication and its new website, be sure to follow them on social media at Garage Style Magazine or log on to www. garagestylemagazine. com. Because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage?

Classic car auctions are all [00:01:00] the rage these days. The collector car market has been booming for the past decade or so, and auctions have been growing accordingly, both in grandiosity and media coverage. You’ve probably seen auctions taking place on TV or online, with the biggest events being concours like affairs, fetching record prices which make headlines for weeks to follow.

Don Weberg: It’s a misconception that classic and collector car auctions are reserved for the ludicrously rich Buying cars for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. Auctions offer enthusiasts the opportunity to network with like minded people and are a great way to learn about special interest vehicles you may not be familiar with, but find you have an interest in.

Crew Chief Eric: And the team at GAA Classic Car Auctions offers a spectacular experience for both the first time or the seasoned auction goer. Devoted to producing the best Classic and Collector Auction Experience, folks like Johnny Ransom, General Manager for GAA are hands on and willing to help you with whatever needs might arise.

And he’s [00:02:00] here tonight to explain to us how it all works. And co hosting with me tonight is Don Wieberg from Garage Style Magazine. So welcome to Break Fix, Johnny.

Johnny Ransom: Well, thank you. I appreciate the invitation.

Crew Chief Eric: Johnny, before we get started talking about GAA classic cars, tell us a little bit about your automotive past.

Have you always been in the car world? What got you into auctions?

Johnny Ransom: No, I was not always. And well, when I got out of school, everything in our area here in North Carolina was textiles. And also furniture. This is still the furniture capital of the world, High Point, North Carolina. And I’m many guys, they were so many furniture companies here that you can make really good money directly out of school benefits.

I mean, enough average guy could buy a whole, get married. Have a kid. Send it to college. Be able to have two vehicles. I mean, you weren’t gonna be a millionaire by no means, but you could live a good life. So I was working for Thomasville Furniture. Got out of college. The guy was a manager [00:03:00] over there, and I had this young lady that was retired under me.

Her name was Betty Jo Johnson, and her brother was the general manager of Greensboro Auto Auction. And she was retiring and she kissed me on the cheek one day on our way out after we gave her a retirement party. She said, I’m going to tell my brother about you. He said, you’re a really good manager. This is the best thing about you.

You know how to talk to people. People say stuff to you all the time. You never think nothing about it. I never thought one thing about it. Three months later, I got a phone call. It was him asking me to come into his office. He wanted to talk to me. So I had an interview with him. I did everything. I worked on a Chrysler account there, worked on a Ford account there, fleet operations manager there.

I was walking control over to auction. I actually, let me get it back. My dad was into farming and so forth earlier in his lifetime. And I was always messing around with him, but then he became a welder. We always had a little bit of land where we were at, and we always tinkered on tractors and cars and stuff.

I was always enthused with cars. It wasn’t like I didn’t know how to actually change the batteries, change spark plugs. In the day, you [00:04:00] know, you still ignored switches, your carburetors, your airflow. I mean, these are things that you’ve done in the sixties and seventies. You know, you really, that’s what kids stuff.

They hung out with their dads and they learned so much from them about being able to think with these cars. Well, these are the cars we sell now. They’re cooperator cars and they’re totally different than fuel injection cars. And there’s a whole lot of things that most people don’t know. It’s real simple to be able to figure out what makes that car go.

If there’s a problem, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist in order or plug up a computer to figure out and tell you what’s wrong. Most of you know what’s wrong. So this is stuff I got into, but worked about four years in the paint and body and got a lot of paint and body experience messing with cars.

That time we were doing 8, 000 cars a month, and that was going through paint and body. 8, 000 cars a month going through recon. I mean, we were really, really booming with that many cars. That’s how big this operation, everything was 24 hours a day there. So I got a lot of experience. And Mr. Green, fortunately, everything at his company.

He never really liked to go out and [00:05:00] bring a guy in when there was something opening up. He always liked to promote good in. Luckily, I was able to be able to go through a lot of different areas there and get a lot more experience. So when the GAA classic cars come about, I was the next guy in line, so to speak.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about one of the newest and hottest classic and collector car auctions on the market right now. Tell us about how GAA got started.

Johnny Ransom: 2010, we started talking. We had a regular dealer auction with the largest independent dealer auction, which is GAA Greensboro Auto Auction. We run 17 lanes every Wednesday.

And we started doing some survey. We had a lot of customers always wanting us to come over and start a classic car auction. And we found out real quick, we averaged between 2, 700 and 3, 500 people actually walking in the door on Wednesdays to buy late model cars. They had 70 percent of them had at least one.

Collector card. So, that really got our eyebrows really rose and we was like, well, we had a facility there that we did I line [00:06:00] cards in, and that’s called the Palace. We wasn’t using it at the time because 2007 8 is really when they started this cash for clunkers and the economy was really not doing that well.

All of our eggs was in one basket. That’s when we was trying to think outside the basket, so to speak. So, that’s when we came up with it. And so then we all jumped in a plane one day and rode down to Mecum and Kissimmee, and we were very impressed. This was like 2010 when we was down there looking around and said, Oh, we can do this.

This is no different than what we do week in and week out. So we started in 2012, we had our first auction, 350 cars, opened up Kissimets, and we had those Kissimets done within 60 days. We had 90 percent of the auction field within 60 days. It was like, this is ridiculous. You know, most people struggle to get cars.

From that day forward, every sale, it’s like everybody learned something and something to be able to make it better, you know, to be able to have our facility. [00:07:00] Almost six and a half acres on a one roof. All the cars is amazing climate control. And then, you know, the cool thing about it is you go to any other auction, you’re in there, you drop the car off and then you got 48 hours or so to get the car out.

Cause you got a rodeo or something coming in behind you. We don’t have a, we got a luxury. You call me up and say, Hey, I’m going to sign this car with you. Can I ship it today? Absolutely. It’s in a secure building. There’s nothing going to happen to it. We don’t have a bunch of people running around there messing with the cars.

I bet you we got 290 cars sitting in our building right now for the November 3rd sale. And our customers really like that. I mean, I have people from Texas to Detroit that actually buys cars on the East Coast and just ship them directly to us. And I mean, these are some major players also, and it’s worked out for them to be able to have another outlet to be able to have a different way of being able to buy cars to sell cars.

We have been able to generate from within our facility there a lot of good cars. [00:08:00] So it’s been a double whammy for us to be able to generate cars. We’re being very fortunate. We have a little bit of edge on most people at

Don Weberg: all. You were talking about auction companies that go around, you know, they go around the country, they set up events, some of them even go around the world.

And set up events and you guys keep it right there at home. You’ve got your six acres under one roof at the palace. How many guests can that accommodate?

Johnny Ransom: Oh, my, you can imagine six and a half acres under one roof. And there’s a lot of room. We have seating for almost 600 people in our arena. When you come to our auction, or if you ever looked at it online, you’ll see we’ve packed the 600.

Plus we have people standing up. There’s some people come in and they even bring their chairs with them and they just sit near their cars or whatever. It’s just like a car show. If you ever came to auction, you’re going to bring your car to auction. It ain’t that you’re going to put it on Friday 1 51 and go and sit up there.

You’re never going to sell your car, so you better go stand by side your car. Somebody’s going to want to know your [00:09:00] information. And that’s how you sell your car. By being next to your car to answer. It don’t matter. This guy that you think can’t rub two nickels together, probably one of the most wealthiest people you ever met in your life.

And it’s very important to be cordial with people.

Don Weberg: If I’m understanding correctly, Johnny, you actually encourage your sellers. To stand with their car and talk to potential buyers?

Johnny Ransom: Yeah, absolutely.

Don Weberg: Okay, is that different from other auction houses?

Johnny Ransom: Yeah, in some cases. But, you know, when I go to other auction houses, you can always see the serious sellers because most times they’re there.

You can tell the ones that’s really serious about selling their cars. You see the guys that stick around their cars to sell, that’s your better car. They’re the ones that take a lot more pride about selling the car, want you to know about the car than just going and putting the car on a number and hope it sells itself.

That’s just not how you sell the car. You know, you go and spend some time with your car. You got your car or with multiple cars, be by your cars, encourage, be able to talk to people. I’m telling you that one fuzzy feeling means a [00:10:00] lot to people when you’re purchasing a car. Everybody knows that you don’t feel good about when you walk into a new dealership or used car lot or whatever.

You don’t feel that. A real warm and fuzzy feeling about it. You’re going to go the other way. Or do you feel like somebody just don’t care? You know, a lot of times you’ll have 48 hours to sell your car, be in there a couple of days. So you need to take advantage of that time. Our crew all the time encouraged the guys when they were consigning cars.

Hey. Spend some time on your cars when you get here, just to make sure they look the best they can. Make sure you spend some time mirroring because people are going to come and ask questions. I think it helps tremendously. Our sales rate has been very high here for the last two years, and I know the pandemic had a lot to do with it, just like anything else with the car market right now.

Even our last sale we had in July, we still had really good numbers. We still sold a lot of 89 percent if I’m not mistaken, but still it shows the ones. By being with your car, being able to talk to people, the ones that’s going to take the time to come and [00:11:00] actually be there, it’s absolutely amazing.

Don Weberg: You can accommodate all those people.

Are there a lot of things to do for friends and family that might be, uh, you know, quote unquote, dragged along to the auction? You know, hey, dad’s going to the auction. Oh, God, here we go. Are there other diversions that they can join in? Or is it pretty much, no, we’re going to go look at cars with dad?

Johnny Ransom: Well, at this point, it’s.

We’re going to go look at cars with dad, but we just got done with the new expansion. Our goal is that the memorabilia aspect of the auction is so hot right now. I don’t know if you guys have been keeping up with that also, but memorabilia is just. route, in my opinion, it’s worse than any collector card has ever been on the market right now.

I mean, it’s insane. So we have built this facility. We got in the back and we’re installing it as we speak. A jumbotron, 50 foot wide, 18 foot tall. It’s mammoth, mammoth [00:12:00] jumbotron. And he’s taking those screens and going to put them in the back and that new building, hopefully in February, we’re going to start doing memorabilia.

Starting around 8. 30 every morning to about 11 o’clock, the same time as the regular auctions going on. So we’re going to try to double dip. We’re going to try to start selling several hundred pieces of memorabilia each sale.

Don Weberg: Are you saying you’re going to host a memorabilia sale at the same time, simultaneously with the cars?

Johnny Ransom: Absolutely.

Don Weberg: Wow. Okay. That’s kind of mind blowing.

Johnny Ransom: Absolutely. You know, the people that dabbles in the memorabilia is the same people that buys these cars and 90 percent of the people. This is the same scenario that we’ve done before. We done the auction part for the cars. We started doing a little bit of surveying and stuff for memorabilia and 70.

It was 71 percent of the people that actually come to auction. Have some kind of memorabilia in their house or they got a man cave or wherever they do with their cars, even in their regular garages, they all want this stuff around [00:13:00] their cars. So, I mean, it’s a win win for you. That’s our next big step.

We’re going toward the memorabilia. I would not be surprised within two years that we will have a memorabilia sale every month.

Don Weberg: That would be incredible.

Johnny Ransom: Yeah, that’s what we’re trying to do. The way he built this facility, we got a separate parking lot. We got a separate entrance to it. Be able to do that without even messing with the cards whatsoever.

So that will be the next big thing for us with the memorabilia.

Don Weberg: With all the cars you guys auction, and believe me, I’ve scoured your website. There are several cars coming up in November that I’m really champing at the bit for. I don’t see a specialty. You guys pretty much sell it all. Is there sort of a specialty that you like to say you gravitate to?

Johnny Ransom: I can honestly tell you if I’m sitting there and I’m looking at a Volkswagen, I got a Chevelle, and I got a 4×4 pickup truck, and it’s got decent miles on it, and it’s got a 2 inch lift on it, and it’s an automatic air conditioned power steering truck. That truck and that Chevelle is going over here in this stack to the [00:14:00] right, that Volkswagen is going to the left.

I’m going to take the truck and I’m going to take the Chevelle. Cause we really, really knock it out of the park with muscle cars and trucks. That’s what’s special. Everybody knows we get really good money. We’re in our muscle cars and we get really good money with our trucks. We do good with our foreign cars, you know, with our Ferraris and Porsches or stuff like that.

And the reason why a lot of people don’t realize that we don’t have a ton of them. We’ll have a little bit here on. Friday and a little bit here on Saturday. And we always sell them. We’ve been very fortunate. We always get good enough money to get it. So

Don Weberg: on your website, you’ve got a few Ferraris, you know, you don’t just take a Ferrari to somebody to sell.

If they don’t know what they’re doing.

Johnny Ransom: Well, I have a guy in Greensboro that’s a Ferrari dealer and he’s got to collect. And he’s a good friend of mine. He’s got several hundred cars in his collection and he always gets me for. Every sale, give me Ferraris, Porsches, he always sends me four or five cars, every sale.

And plus he takes some of the trade ins and sends them over there to me. They might have just a little bit more miles than he wants to put on his lot. We always [00:15:00] have them. That’s the beauty of what we do. We’ll have the 30s cars, the pre war cars, we’ll have a few of those. We have some European cars, I mean, we got the Ferraris, we have some Mercedes, we saw a G Wagon last sale, brand new 2021 G Wagon, it didn’t have a 2, 000 miles on it, I mean, we do a little bit of everything.

When

Don Weberg: it

Johnny Ransom: comes

Don Weberg: to selling, especially at an auction, the auctioneer’s personality, the auctioneer’s barking ability, if you will, has a lot to do with the audience reaction. Do you have any famous auctioneers that you guys work with?

Johnny Ransom: We don’t really have what you call famous auctioneers. We got a lot of people that’s played and dabbled with some of the big boys, so to speak, like the people that actually work for Barrett Jackson and so forth like that in the past, but you know, we’ve got 17 lanes on Wednesday and we got 17 lanes with auctioneers and ring guys.

We have a pick of the litter, so to speak, but still. It’s a lot different from going to your regular auction on Wednesday that you’ve got to buy that car because that’s how you make your living. You got to have inventory on [00:16:00] your lot to someone that comes over here to a classic car auction that don’t have to buy a thing.

I have people that come in from California. Their best friend lived in Pittsburgh and he’s got another friend that lived in Orlando and they just come to the auction when we have auctions so they can hang out. All three of them. But they all dabble in cars. They always get a couple of cars so they can flip them or whatever, but they come and hang out.

They have a great time. They love cars and they come spend a whole weekend in Greensboro, North Carolina. And the car guys are going to be around cars and the car guys love cars. They’re going to be there no matter

Crew Chief Eric: what. Amen to that, Johnny. And I gotta tell you something. I gotta confess something. I’ve never been to an auction before.

This episode is actually really important to me because I want to learn more about the experience as a first time auction goer. Why don’t you help educate me and our listeners as well as to what some of the expectations might be for attending an event like a GAA auction. What are some do’s and don’ts for first time auction goers?

Are there any fees? Do we have to pay to come? Just check it out and see what’s going on.

Johnny Ransom: [00:17:00] Most auctions, they have a gate fee to be able to get $20 a day, $30 a day, or in the sense of Baird, Jackson, Scottsdale, you’re paying a hundred dollars a day to get in. Ours is a little different. We don’t have a $20 day ticket or whatever.

Anybody could come to the auction, but we just want you to be a registered bidder. Now, we started that process right when the pandemic hit. We didn’t know how we was gonna do this thing. But we knew we couldn’t sell a 20 ticket. You got to remember, you go back and look, there was not that many options going on across the United States.

There was only a handful. It ain’t no telling where they might be. We were one of the few that owned our facility. That was the best thing we’ve ever done. We own our facility. We can monitor the people. We could take X amount of people. We didn’t let the public in. You could come in as long as you was a bidder.

And we was like, man, we might be home with something here. And even the dealers and the buyers and the sellers that come in love that. Then having just 10 or 12, 000 people in the room, just [00:18:00] slammed up, slamming your door, sitting on your cars, taking their drinks and. Putting them on your car while they’re checking their phone or whatever.

I mean, just all the crazy little things we’ve been very fortunate to be able to do that. And I think that was been one of the reasons our success was really, really so great. 95 percent sales for 2020 and 93 percent sales. I’m talking about every sale for 2021.

Don Weberg: That’s insane.

Johnny Ransom: It was just not, I mean, crazy, but it was people that had regular car dealerships that couldn’t get inventory.

They were buying classic cars. They had mouths to feed. They had people that was waiting on them. They was needing cars out there. They needed to sell something. Hey, they were coming to buy classic cars, putting them on their lot.

Crew Chief Eric: So are you implying that because of the chip shortage during COVID that dealerships turned to, let’s say, these carbureted cars?

Johnny Ransom: They did. I mean, Mr. Green’s got a Ford store down there for 50 years. He’s got a Lincoln store down there for 25 years. And every one of them had classic cars on them and we sold them all and they [00:19:00] kept them. And now even today, I got guys and they can maintain every sale there by three to four vehicles.

They got Chevrolet dealerships, Ford dealerships, buy some really nice Ford trucks or whatever, and put them in the showroom. And they had no problem selling them. It’s just like another day.

Crew Chief Eric: You talked about the gate fee. It could be 20 bucks, depending where you go. It could be a hundred bucks on the other end of the scale.

So I got this fantasy from watching TV and what an auction is like, right? You got this guy with a ping pong paddle on his hand with a number on it. Angry faces, everybody’s lifting it up, you know, trying to get in there and get their bids in. So is that really how it works? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Johnny Ransom: You better be ready when your car, if you’re going to bid on one, you just better be ready. You need to pay attention and pay attention to your surroundings. Also, it will take you from zero to a hundred real quick if you’re not careful. I personally tell everybody, listen, if you’re interested in a car, if you don’t hear that car says the reserves off for a first [00:20:00] timer, don’t bid on it.

Don’t bid on it until you hear the reserves off. When the reserves off, jump right on in because that’s going to take it down to just a few people instead of 10 or 15 people playing in on it. And you don’t need to drive that price up any higher. They’re going to do it on their own. You hear the reserves off.

Jump right on in. If you don’t hit a reserve off and it says no sale, we got what we call the deal doctor and you can go over there and negotiate a deal. That’s how we have cars for sale after they roll off the block.

Crew Chief Eric: Becoming a registered bidder, is that the same as pre registration? I see it on some sites, register to buy, you know, things like that.

Does that get you on the list? Does that inform you that I’m interested in that particular vehicle? How does that whole system work?

Johnny Ransom: Well, you can be a pre registered. It’s 150 bucks up to the week of the sale. The week of the sale, it jumps to 200. So they encourage you to pre register early. So you can save a few bucks.

And also if you’re going to come, you want to come early and you want to come early enough that you can do your inspection yourself with the car. You know, you want to look [00:21:00] underneath the car. You want to check the car out. You want to see if there’s any documentation. They say they still had the window sticker.

You like to go and see the window sticker. Everything that you read on that car that says about the car and what the car comes with, you want to actually physically see it. If it says a window sticker, bill sheets, protecto play, you want to go look at it. You want to see it. You don’t want to just take their word for it.

Not to say that that ever happens, but I’m just saying you want to see if you want to be able to be educated yourself about what you fix in a purchase. Now let’s just say you’re going to be a online bidder. So you could go ahead and be an online bidder. You can get pre registered for that also. We do proxy bid.

But also, I suggest in all my girls, anybody calls and says they are interested in being an online bidder or a phone bidder, we have on site people that will do inspections for you. They’re independent, they don’t work for the auction, and they’ll work for you. They’re licensed and bonded. Everything they tell you will be the gospel about that car.

Most of the time, they will actually give you ranges about what those [00:22:00] parts go for before you see it. They will do all your legwork for you. So you know that you’re not overpaying for it. For about 300 bucks, you got someone that’s going to number one, check your car out. Number two, make sure that your car that you’re buying is a quality piece.

And number three, they’re going to encourage you where to be

Crew Chief Eric: at on the

Johnny Ransom: money.

Crew Chief Eric: So if I heard you right, what you’re telling me is. The guy with the ping pong paddles sitting in his chair. You got this dude with the phone up to his ear and a faceless voice on the other side of that and people online all bidding simultaneously on the same vehicle.

Johnny Ransom: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Crew Chief Eric: A heck of a thing to experience. So let’s go back to the sale. You’re there the first time buyer. You go, man, I really wanted that Ferrari 308. That one Ferrari that was in the list and you bought it. Now is the expectation that I show up with a duffel bag full of cash? I mean, how do I buy this car?

Is it like buying from a dealership?

Don Weberg: Johnny, he’s watched a lot of Miami Vice. I could tell.

Crew Chief Eric: I could tell.

Don Weberg: Ferraris and bags of cash.

Johnny Ransom: It’s the 80s, [00:23:00] baby. Hey, you’ll be surprised at the amount of people that actually comes to the auction with cash. We have a little dark room with security people. Trust me, when you go in there, it happens.

Every sale, you just wouldn’t believe it. I had an old guy come in one time from Texas, and he bought, I bet you, seven or eight cars. He said, I need to pay for this thing. I said, well, you go up there and write a check. He said, I don’t write checks. I said, you don’t write checks? He said, no. He says, I pay cash.

I thought he was kidding. You know how people talk. You do this, they say stuff all the time. I pay cash. Okay. But he had a motorhome, went across the street. We got 17 motorhome hookups, full hookups across the street. And they’re free, by the way. He come back to the auction. He had two walmart plastic bags full of cash and he went in there and dumped them on my desk.

I said, oh my God, I said, get this out of here now. I was scared to death and he was laughing the whole time. He said, I told you, I think I said, yes, you did. Yes, you did. You did tell me you pay [00:24:00] cash, but no, the real way is you can bring a check or you go to the bank and get what they call guaranteed funds with a bank letter and you can wire the money.

We’ll give you a bill of sale. And you can contact your bank and we’ll give you wired instructions and wire money over on Mondays.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, do you guys do financing as well? Because I know there is classic car financing as well.

Johnny Ransom: Yes, we have JJ Best on site. They’re there the whole weekend, but they will do some financing for you also.

Don Weberg: When you purchase something, how did GAA ensure the title transfers paperwork? All the formalities are tended to.

Johnny Ransom: You got to remember too now, and I keep referring back to our regular auction across the street. So you got to remember we’re selling 2000, 3000 cards a week. So all those cards have titles that we deal with.

So all those people that work at Greensboro auto auction, when we have our regular sale, we call it pump and dump. We pumped people over, dump them in our auction. And every one of our people in that works for us, they work for the North Carolina DMV at one time. That’s how they [00:25:00] were hired. They used to work for the North Carolina DMV.

So they’re very highly experienced. When you sell your car, I’m going to ask you to send me some pictures of your car. I’m going to ask you to send us a copy. of your title front and back, a good clean copy. I’m going to also ask for you to give me a picture of the VIN on the car. We immediately, as soon as it hits, I got a person to start all day every day.

They take a title, they check that number, and they take a copy of the VIN, picture of the VIN, and they make sure the two matches. If there’s an issue before you ship the car, we’ve already contacted you and told you. Hey, there was an issue as a digit off on your title, blah, blah, blah. We ran a Carfax, we ran an auto check.

We ran a Navitas report. It says in 1970, this car was stolen. It’s in, it’s got a stolen history. 1972, this car was says it was issued a claim for total loss, damaged and got a damaged title here. It says it was a total loss [00:26:00] and now it’s got nothing on this title. So this car supposedly supposed to have a salvage history.

You know, all that stuff we check, we do all that stuff behind the scenes where nobody knows before we sell that car, there’s a lot of legwork. It goes into it. It ain’t just, Hey, I’m gonna take my car to the auction. I’m going to sell the car. We got to guarantee all this stuff.

Don Weberg: That was kind of where the question came from telling Eric the other day or the other week or something about a story.

It was an auction house and it was one of our subscribers. He bought a car at auction, enjoyed the car for a year, year and a half. Took it to an auction to sell it. He was tired of it. He wanted to get something else. The auction company tells him, you know, your paperwork’s all messed up on this car. We can’t sell this car the way it is.

Who sold you this car in the first place? And he says, well, you guys did. One of those situations of here we are dealing with professional big auction companies. You think everything’s going to be fine. Everything’s going to be golden. Then you hear stories like this. And believe me, there’s multitudes of them.

I’m sure you know about it working in the industry. Oh yeah.

Johnny Ransom: Oh yeah.

Don Weberg: So to hear you guys saying you’re in the background, you’re doing, you know, all this [00:27:00] due diligence, but are there any sort of guarantees that people can have? Like they know for sure?

Johnny Ransom: On our bill of sales, when you sign it, it says, we guarantee you a good time for any reason that you take that car and you get it and you take it to your DMV and you cannot get a title.

All you have to you already signed a contract and granted, we guarantee you a good title.

Don Weberg: Okay, so GAA is behind every sale all the

Johnny Ransom: way? All the way, all the way. We got to be able to give you a good, and we get, and it’s in writing on our bills and sales. We guarantee you a good title.

Crew Chief Eric: Going back to my duffel bag of cash scenario here, When someone inevitably buy something at the auction, or they’re the winner of the bidding, there’s got to be fees and other things that get compiled on top of that.

So I want to explore that a little bit for the listeners, so they understand the total cost of purchase when you buy something at auction in addition to. Auction house fees. I’m assuming people have to pay their state, federal sales taxes, all those kinds of [00:28:00] things. Not

Johnny Ransom: North Carolina. In some states you do.

I mean, like, I used to go to Auburn, Indiana. And if you weren’t a dealer, and you just average Joe, like you and I went up there and purchased your car, they would make you pay those state taxes right then. I know when the Mecham has that auction up there at Indy every year, a lot of those people don’t realize that either.

They got to pay taxes on that car right then. If you average Joe, if you’re a dealer, you don’t have to. But in North Carolina, we’ll hand you a title. We don’t have to do that. At all.

Crew Chief Eric: As the buyer, I’m responsible for doing all the paperwork with my local DMV, especially if I’m out of state. And then I would assume state inspections are the same thing, right?

Johnny Ransom: That’s correct. Now, every state don’t do state inspections. North Carolina does. When you buy one, if you’ve got to have a state title, when you go there, they will give you paperwork and they’ll actually give you your title DMV.

Crew Chief Eric: And the titles that are issued to the buyer, are the owner’s original titles or are the cars all retitled in [00:29:00] North Carolina?

Johnny Ransom: No, no. They’re the owner’s original title and they signed them over to you or I, if we purchase ’em, they are actually signed into your name. Right. Then

Crew Chief Eric: going back to those percentages, there’s different ways that auctions are handled.

I’m of the eBay generation, so I get it. There’s a fee for listing and there’s a fee for selling and all that kind of thing. There’s also the real estate model where the buyer and this. seller. Both percentages taken from the sale itself by the house. How do your percentages work when you’re buying a vehicle?

Johnny Ransom: Well, we do 8%. If you’re purchasing a vehicle, if it’s no salt across the block, that’s when you go to the deal doctor, your percentage will be much less. Because the negotiated percent then on how much you’re going to pay when you go up there and make the negotiation on the car, it could be 5%. It could be 6%, but it will be less than 8 percent

Crew Chief Eric: expect to pay somewhere between five and eight on top of whatever the final value of the car is as the fee for buying.

Johnny Ransom: Yeah, that’s correct.

Don Weberg: So we talked about the buying experience. What about the flip [00:30:00] side, Johnny? What about selling the car? You’ve told us that it’s a good idea to stand with the car and talk to people who are coming by and want to know more about it. Walk us through a selling process. What is needed to list and sell an item with GAA?

I want to sell my Mustang. What do I do?

Johnny Ransom: All right. So you immediately go online to daaclassiccars. com. There’s two ways that you could sign your car, click right there and it’s called a digital way. Step one, what’s your name? Step two, your address. Step three, what make, model, the car, and then it go on and on.

You can upload your pictures there and do everything digitally right there. You don’t have to print no paperwork off. You don’t have to do anything whatsoever. And the second way is there’s a printable form. There’s still people old school that likes a printable form. You take that form off, look at it, fill it out.

You can email it back in to info at GAAclassiccars. com along with the pictures, picture of the VIN, copy of the title, front and back. Very important. As soon as it lands on our desk, within 24 hours, you will get a [00:31:00] telephone call from us. Hey, we have received your information. We will let you know within a few days what we can do and get your numbers.

So then we will return your calls. Hey, you asked for Saturday number prime time. Well, We do everything at GAA from the lowest, cheapest car to the most expensive car as the day goes on. So if you wanted that spot, your car ain’t for 25, 000 and you wanted to be in a prime time spot on Saturday, that’s not going to happen.

We’re not going to sell a 25, 000 car in between the prime time of our show. We’re going to actually place you accordingly to what we have available at the time to send it in. And most of the time we come to a happy medium with all of our customers. And once we explain that to them, they understand thoroughly about how we place the cars.

Don Weberg: Now placing the cars, that probably has a direct correlation on the sell through rates, doesn’t it?

Johnny Ransom: Oh, absolutely. Let’s just say you send in that Volkswagen, really nice Volkswagen, but it’s a 1970 Volkswagen and you want 55, 000 for it. Well, you want to have a conversation [00:32:00] with me. Hey, uh, listen, can you explain to me about your car?

Tell me a little bit about your car. And then after you tell me about your car, and I’m going to say, how did you come up with that 55, 000? So I’m never sold one here for that amount of money. Can you explain to me? Well, it was my mama’s. I love my mama and she was worth a lot of money. Don’t you know my mama?

No, I don’t know your mom. Just crazy stuff like that. So then, I have to generally, without insulting them, be able to say, hey, in the last year, this is how much these cards have been going for. If you’re not willing to keep it within this range right here, I don’t want to waste your time or mine. I get to make money three times a year, and it’s based on what cards I take.

And that’s called grinding them at the beginning, instead of waiting to the end. You grind them before they get there. I say 55, 60 percent of the people get a phone call and we talk about pricing, but most auction houses don’t do that. I want to talk to them. I want to plant that seed in their mind about how much our car is really going to break.

If you [00:33:00] plan that before they get there, they know that. And so if it don’t meet their expectations, they’ve already been told. So then now you’ve got that chance to be able to, uh, grinder, be able to get them to lift that reserve even easier.

Don Weberg: Going into the pricing structure of Mama’s VW 55, 000. When somebody wants to set a reserve on a car, is that kind of what we’re talking about right there?

Do most people want to put a reserve on it?

Johnny Ransom: Yes, a lot of people want to put the reserve on it, but for the past five years, we have anything 15, 000 can blow. We’ve run no reserve, but we don’t take you far.

Don Weberg: Oh, okay. You’ve got a little bit of a standard on that. Yeah.

Johnny Ransom: Well, and what happened was when we got into the business, we had all these people sending all these cars in because we didn’t know no better and we were taking them.

We had all these people sitting there and he does get in there for 55, 000. We get it up there and he wouldn’t sell the car and the car didn’t bring but 14, 000 and he wouldn’t sell the car. It was crazy. Well, number one, we shouldn’t have touched that car. We should have tried to get a car that we could have sold.

There’s [00:34:00] no way you could have sold that car. He got one in 55, 000 knowing it wasn’t going to break with 15. And then, you know, it got to the point that four weeks out, that’s when people really got to thinking, man, I got this 1970 Mach 1 right here, and I want to sell it. Can I get in the sale? No, I don’t want no spots, man.

I just didn’t have no spots. And so now we’ve learned that. We had to slow it down. So in order to slow it down, we had to say 15, 000 a blow. From Monday to Monday, we put all the cars in a basket and we sit down and we get our computers and we look at every car and we go back and we try to put a price on every car before we even start.

Going in and say, we want the car, if this car is good enough for us, so to speak. And we have a price that we look at and like I said, 50 to 55 percent of them gets a phone call and we’re talking about price structuring before they get there. But I mean if it’s way out of kilter, we don’t even consider it.

But as long as we get them reeled in to where they need to be, I really think that’s part of our success of our [00:35:00] auction. Being able to communicate with the people, being able to talk to people, being able to plant that seed with the person. before the sale actually starts.

Crew Chief Eric: So that brought up a really interesting question in that does everything have to run and drive that goes to the auction?

Johnny Ransom: Yes, we do. Now there’s some auctions, you know, no big deal. We don’t want that. We want what we call frontline ready stuff. We don’t want that. It’s just too much stuff can happen when you get a car that don’t run, drive, no brakes and all this other stuff. It’s just not worth the time for us.

Don Weberg: Johnny, what if you got a whole collection of cars, would you handle a collection of cars?

Johnny Ransom: We do it all the time. I got one coming up next year, a really good customer. His name was Jerry Smith. He passed away three or four months ago, unfortunately. And we just got the contract signed. He’s got 250 cars. And a thousand pieces of memorabilia. So we’re going to have a special sale for him, March 30th, 31st and April 1st.

We’re going to have a February sale. And then four weeks later, we’re going to have this sale.

Don Weberg: Going back to the cars have to run and drive scenario in a collection like [00:36:00] that one, 200, 250 cars. If there’s a couple that are a little, uh, handicapped, so to say. Is that okay? Or do you just want to put those off to the side and not deal with them?

Johnny Ransom: Luckily it’s far enough in advance of the car. She’s got issues. We got time now to take care of those issues. We actually got people down there, but they got car handlers and they’re going through those cars right now to make sure all the cars run, drive, press fuel. There’s no issues. They’re taking care of that right now.

Don Weberg: So GAA actually services, they’ll send somebody to the collection. To make sure all the cars are up in Noah,

Johnny Ransom: most of the time, there’s a person that handles the cars to stat large of collection. They got a full time mechanic there. They got people that’s constantly messing with those cars. So we’re being in correspondence with them.

I have, and they’re down there right now, as we’re speaking, going through these cars and making sure they’re running, they’re driving, they’re everything, getting stuff in order as we speak.

Don Weberg: Now, for a collection like that, does it make sense to do an on site auction at the collection’s house, or is it better just to bring them back to [00:37:00] Greensboro?

Johnny Ransom: We’re going to actually bring everything back to Greensboro, and the reason why is the actual little town he lives in, they don’t have enough of motel rooms, they don’t have enough of parking or anything to be able to do it on site. We could do it on site if we needed to, but we’ve never had to, so we got 25 tractor and trailers for 25 rollbacks there.

For our regular auction. So we can go get the car.

Don Weberg: But I’m assuming there’s a good percentage of cars that just don’t sell. They can’t find new owners. I think you call that the still for sale category. What do y’all do with those?

Johnny Ransom: At the end of each sale, there’s anybody that is a registered bidder at the time.

And some people that ain’t registered bidder. So people just in our base of speed. We sent out a text at the end of the night that what the bid goes, what we’ll call bid goes all. So they know the cars are still for sale. When the sale was over, we had all from that Sunday, two weeks later, I think I sold 14 cars after the sale.

I was, I was the deal. Dr. Dan. So after everything closed, I turned into the deal.

Don Weberg: You’ve touched on this a little bit, the Volkswagen, et [00:38:00] cetera. Does GAA take basic consignments? In other words, the consignment process still for sale. In other words, let’s say I want to sell my cars. I don’t want to go to the auction, Johnny.

I don’t want to go through that. Can I just consign it with GAA and you can put it in the still for sale corral?

Johnny Ransom: No, we’ll run it and I’ll have you on the telephone. I’ll do it all the time.

Don Weberg: Okay.

Johnny Ransom: I’ve got people that sends me cars every sale. I’ve never walked in that building.

Don Weberg: Got it. Okay. So everything’s going to go through the auction.

Johnny Ransom: Yeah. We’ll go through the auction and I’ll have you on the telephone. And a lot of times they could be watching it on their iPad or laptop or regular desk monitor. And they can watch while I have them on the telephone. So they can witness everything that’s going on also.

Crew Chief Eric: So Don brings up a really good point.

If everything goes through auction, like we talked about before, there’s seller and buyer fees involved in that process. Depending on what you have, if you have something basic, it’s going to go for what it goes for. But if you got something quasi interesting, some of the bidding can get out of control. We see it all the time, even on the online auctions, like bring a trailer and places like that where you’re like, it went [00:39:00] for that much.

What are you crazy? So with prices being so high, why would somebody auction the car rather than do a private sale or go through a broker? Is there an advantage to going through the auction?

Johnny Ransom: I agree and that’s why I think that bring a trailer has done what they have done, their claw and tell their base, they have already proven their sale that you know, hey, we could sell these cars just like any other auction house in the United States and even better.

On some aspects, especially low mileage cars, they have gilded all of those mileage cars too. And so a lot of people like that, but there’s still that commodity band that people go and that excitement going to the auction and no offense. I mean, I love my auction. I think it’s fantastic and we still sell cars, but there’s a couple of options that going to Scottsdale every year in January is phenomenal for me.

I mean, There’s so many people and so many options going on every day. I started one side of Scottsdale and end up on the [00:40:00] other side. I try to get all the options every day. It’s like a marathon for me. Same thing when I go to Monterey. Oh my God. Sonny, it’s like, it’s breathtaking what goes on out there.

Amelia Island. Same way. I mean, these are events that goes on if you’re car lovers. I mean, it’s just like, you can’t get enough of it and how nice everything really is and be able to see some of the rare, so the rare cars, cars that you’ll never be able to see you lay your eyes on, but you got to bear it.

You got 21, 000 registered bidders every day in one room. One room. Now, I mean, you get a lot of people to go and bring a trailer, but you don’t have 21, 000 bidders of one room. I’m not taking away from Kissimmee either. I like going to Kissimmee also. I think what Dana Mecham done is absolutely extraordinary.

He is one of the pioneers of our business also, and they get some of the best numbers, matching, bill sheets. They get some of the best cars around. And I mean, they know how to do it. They do a [00:41:00] fantastic job on what they do.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ve often heard people say that part of the auction experience, as you described, it is, you know, that energy in the room and all those people and all that.

But I’ve also heard it’s a hassle free experience. So how have you guys streamlined the whole buyer seller interaction process?

Johnny Ransom: Most of the people that come to the auction, to be honest with you, are people that’s been in the auction world or been before. You only get that handful of people that’s never been.

And the ones that’s never been and he’s kind of lost, you darn sure make sure you put your arm around them and you take care of them and you don’t leave them hanging out there because you do not want them to have a bad experience just because you have an I don’t care attitude. You don’t want to do that.

You want them to have the best. And I’ll tell you what, we have made so many new family So to speak with these people that you go in, I got a lady, I got seven cars coming. Her husband died. Her husband came to Austin all the time. He’s got seven cars. She’s never walked in our building. You know what? I went out there.

I took all of her pictures. I did [00:42:00] all of her paperwork. I walked her through it. I’m picking up her cars for her. She’s coming to the auction. We have a style box up there. I’m gonna put her up there. We’re gonna take care of her. Everything’s gonna be fine. It’s just what you gotta do. It’s really a good thing too.

I mean, I really appreciate it too at the end of the day.

Don Weberg: There’s a lot of new formats coming around. You know, bring a trailer. Hemmings has gone online. I think people have finally realized, hey, Thanks to technology, this can be kind of easy. What are some of the benefits of selling online? Are there any, or does it all revolve around, Hey, let’s go be there.

What, what are your thoughts on that?

Johnny Ransom: Well, I talked to a guy today down in Florida. His name’s Jonathan from bullet motor sports, and we were talking about selling some cars and he’d been selling some cars and bring a trailer. Now he’s still coming to my auction. He comes and buys a truckload of cars, every sale.

And then he does his retail stuff. What he does now, he really, really market his cars. He really, really does a lot of stuff on all your social media stuff, videos of the cars. I mean, [00:43:00] he just takes it to a new level. But he still sells a lot of cars on bringing trailer right now, and so he is being really good for him.

So it’s another outlet. We have our dates and, and everybody that’s in the auction business know what our dates are. Let’s just say Mecu. Everybody knows what Mecu dates are and everybody knows what Barrett dates are. And r e m and Broad Arrow, these are the guys who, who try to not to step on their toes and be going up against these guys at the same time because it’s not healthy.

Cause you want to be able to draw all the buyers. You can,

Don Weberg: do you think those formats are the future or it’s just another outlet? But do you think there’s going to be more growth in that area? The, the online selling, buying experience?

Johnny Ransom: I think it’s another outlet for selling for dealers. Some collectors also using that outlet.

So different than like RK motors in Charlotte, where you can take your car and design it with them and they will sell you a car for you. Streetside classics. One of them, it’s not an auction house, but there’s another way to sell your car. But if you were individual, most dealers [00:44:00] don’t take their cars in or do stuff like that.

But for a dealer is another outlet to be able to flip cars, to be able to sell more cars, to be able to buy more cars. They only have X amount of money anyway to keep generating and keep selling where if this month’s running a little slow, you know, you’ve been selling 20 cars and you only got 12 down and you want to.

What am I going to do with these cars? How can I sell them? All right. So

Don Weberg: all that said, what’s the future at GAA? You’re building a new building and back for memorabilia. You’ve got three auctions a year that I know of you’re doing a specialty auction next year, so that takes it up to four.

Johnny Ransom: There’s always room for improvement.

We’ve always thrived to be on hands and a lot of personal one on one contact with people. Anyone having any kind of problem, we try to jump right in immediately, take care of any kind of problems they have, which I can’t say we have a whole lot of problems. At this point, you know, we’ve put on a lot of options since 2012.

And so we’re getting a lot better than what we normally have. And I mean, [00:45:00] the secrets to it all, and I tell anyone, and I didn’t know in 2012 compared to now, it’s all about the car. If you got the cars, they come. You can have 10, 000 cars, but if they’re not what someone wants, it’s enticed him enough to get on that plane from California to fly out here, buy that car, then you’re not doing your job.

Then again, it comes into marketing and so forth from that point to be able to get that out there to everybody. So, you know, we’ve been doing some stuff here with Mab television. I haven’t some stuff recording and been playing later. We are tentatively looking forward to going hopefully live in 2023.

That’s our next big step, taking it to the big stage, so to speak. Just like everybody else we’ve come in contact with, every other option I’ve come in contact with them. And I got some friends I’ve made with the Mecham group, with the Bear Jackal group, and been able to ask questions where most people couldn’t, you know, they never started out with the big NBC sports or [00:46:00] velocity or whatever, you know, or Motor Trend, excuse me.

They already started small, so hopefully that’s what we’re going to do, just like we’ve done it fast. One step at a time, but it’s coming. It’s coming really big. I think the memorabilia is going to be there right across the street right now. There’s another building they’ve done and graded. It’s going to be beside the new memorabilia building.

Hopefully, he says it’ll be done by July the 4th. I’m hoping that’s going to be what we call the event center where we can grow more sponsors and more vendors just like you were talking. Hey, bring your wife, bring your kids. There’s more stuff for you to be able to do. Hey, I might want to go over here and buy me a Rolex.

There might be a vendor over there doing that. Been able to sell jewelry or that they could go do a little shopping or so to speak, instead of just looking at cars. And then the husband can go look at the cars and buy a car, whatever they want to do to make it more well rounded, so to speak, so you can be more family atmosphere for a total package.

That’s the new future. Also, I’m hoping that this event center that we [00:47:00] could do more vendors and be able to hold more cars and display the cars a lot better than the way we display them, which is not the wrong way we do them, but it could be a little bit more dressy or flashier. That’d be terrific. Yeah, it will be.

Don Weberg: GAA, you’ve got an auction coming up November 3, 4, and 5. How many cars are we looking to expect at that sale? 750. That’s a lot of cars.

Johnny Ransom: Yes, sir.

Don Weberg: Now, is there a large selection of two wheel vehicles coming up? I saw some of those on the website. There was a whole bunch of motorcycles, minibikes, etc. Is that from a private collection or does GAA always have a lot of motorcycles and bikes for sale?

Johnny Ransom: We always, I got a group of guys that don’t do nothing but dabble in the motorbikes and stuff, and they always provide those for me. They do real well with them. And that’s another thing like I was telling you about the memorabilia stuff. Those Honda 70s and 90s and stuff. They’re insane right now.

They’re, they bring a lot of money. Yeah. They’ve gone crazy. Yeah. A lot of people [00:48:00] relate to those like, you know, I had one of those and I want one back, you know, I won’t buy them back.

Don Weberg: It’s funny when you bring that up, because I’ve got a buddy. We used to restore those. I knew nothing about motorcycles and he used to drag those things home from the junkyard and he’d get five or six of them.

He’d put one bike together and make one great bike. They were gorgeous. So yeah, you’re, you’re hitting the nail on the head with that one with me. I see their bikes and I think, Oh man, back in the olden days, you know.

Johnny Ransom: Oh yeah. And listen, it’s 3, 504 grand and being the rare color ones, you know, you can get up to 7, 500 to 10, 000.

Yeah. That’s new. That’s nice. It’s been redone to be able to have that and have that in your garage out there around your cars or whatever. Most of these guys are buying them up

Don Weberg: for the November sale, November three, four, and five, are there any truly significant cars coming up that you remember for that sale?

Johnny Ransom: Restomods right now, a lot of the new. Guys that’s buying these cars, you know, they’re not really into the carburetor cars. They’re all into these LS motor cars. So we got [00:49:00] quite a bit of Aristo mods. I got a couple of really nice Nomads and some Corvettes. It’s really, really super nice. It’s going to really rock the house, so to speak.

I got a Copo coming and I got a LS6 is coming. And both of those cars will be certified through Jeremy Nates. I got a little bit of everything. Like you said, I got some Ferraris. Got some Porsches all the way down to 35 DeSotos, air cooled, unbelievable, beautiful 30s cars. I got a little bit of everything for everybody.

Crew Chief Eric: Obviously, we’re talking about classic cars, muscle cars, and trucks. Those are the ones that really sell at auction. And you said the word restomod, and that got my attention. And there’s been a trend lately of taking these classic cars, these muscle cars, and these trucks, and turning them into EVs by retrofitting in Tesla power plants and others.

So I wanted to get your take on this. Evolution, as we like to call it around here, and how that might change the auction world.

Johnny Ransom: I got an electric truck. First time I ever sold one. Going to try to sell one. Maybe a Rivian. Whatever. I’m not [00:50:00] really up on them, but I got one. Okay? The guy called me, and when he called me, I immediately was typing in and watching them see what they were going online.

And then also, I told him, hold on a second, let me make a few phone calls. I called a couple of my buddies. There’s like, Johnny, you can’t get them. There’s a waiting list like you wouldn’t believe. Crazy not to take it. That’s all I needed here. Caught him back. I hooked him right on in. I said, yeah, I gotta have it.

So I got one. I want everybody to watch. Let’s see what it does. I want to see how much it brings. Well, you know, I’m kind of torn because, you know, the Lightning trucks, they’re over the top right now. I’m expecting that truck to do real well too, because they don’t have no time, no miles on it whatsoever, right?

I mean, I know everything is trying to go for green new deal. Everything’s trying to change. I just don’t know, man. I really, I don’t think in my world and most people I talked to, did I hang out with, and this email collector card, they got white hair, dude. And they’re not buying it. Okay? They’re just not buying it.

They love to [00:51:00] hear that rumble. They like that power. They’re not buying it whatsoever.

Don Weberg: Johnny, don’t worry. In another 20 years, we’ll be auctioning off that vintage Tesla Model S. You don’t see them like this anymore. They’ve still got the original battery pack. Check this thing out. Let’s plug it in, you know?

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right. I hear that,

Johnny, I gotta ask you, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Johnny Ransom: Yes, I’d like to have a shout out to our good friend Reliable Carriers. They’re one of our biggest sponsors. Really good friends of ours for the TAA team. Dale Wilson, really good. Work with you any kind of way.

He’ll haul your car anywhere in the United States and, uh, also liquid performance. They have all of our cleaning supplies and stuff and their technology on cleaning and auto detailing stuff is phenomenal. And also I want to thank Hagerty Insurance, they’re one of our sponsors also. They do a ton of stuff with us.

There’s another company out there called Navispak. They do all of our shipping, [00:52:00] all of our memorabilia and so forth. And I want to have a big shout out to them also. And JJ Best for the financing that they do for all of our financing needs. They really help us, really help us out a lot.

Don Weberg: Six acres under one roof in Greensboro, North Carolina.

G a a classic car auctions keeps their guests comfortable in a fully climate controlled environment. No sunburns, no hats blowing off, no rain. Just an enjoyable time. Cruising their website, www.gaaclassiccars.com. We’ll show there is something for everyone at these events ranging from vintage and exotics to modern classics from all genres.

With bidding options ranging from in person to online and telephone, buying a vehicle or piece of memorabilia is simple. The first time and seasoned auction goer benefits from a professional staff helping you enjoy the entire experience from beginning to end. You can follow the GAA team on social at GAAClassicCars.[00:53:00]

on Facebook, Instagram and I got to

Crew Chief Eric: tell you, I can’t thank you enough for coming on and explaining to me, especially how the auction world works. And you know, now I know exactly what to do. You’re going to see me there at a GAA auction in a white suit, my collar pop, dark shades on a Jordache duffel bag.

And my ping pong pallet ready to bid on the next vehicle coming across that line. I love it. I can’t wait. I can’t wait. We’re going to put you up front. Well, again, thank you so much for coming on and telling us all about this.

Johnny Ransom: You guys are wonderful. I appreciate it so much. And thank you for having me on tonight.

It’s been an awesome time. I really enjoyed it.

Don Weberg: The following episode is brought to us. In part by garage style magazine, since 2007 garage style magazine has been [00:54:00] the definitive source for car collectors, continually delivering information about automobilia, Petroliana events, and more to learn more about the annual publication and its new website.

Be sure to follow them on social media at garage style magazine, or log onto www. garagestylemagazine. com because after all. What doesn’t belong in your garage?

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at grandtorymotorsports.

Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a [00:55:00] no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge.

As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag. For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster.

Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Rock N Roll

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
  • 00:25 Garage Style Magazine Sponsorship
  • 00:57 The Excitement of Classic Car Auctions
  • 01:59 Meet Johnny Ransom from GAA Classic Car Auctions
  • 02:10 Johnny’s Journey into the Automotive World
  • 05:13 The Birth of GAA Classic Car Auctions
  • 08:15 GAA’s Unique Auction Experience
  • 11:28 Memorabilia Sales at GAA Auctions
  • 13:27 Diverse Range of Vehicles at GAA
  • 15:17 Auctioneer Dynamics and Attendee Experience
  • 16:37 First-Time Auction Goer Tips
  • 19:36 Bidding and Payment Process
  • 24:27 Ensuring Title Transfers and Paperwork
  • 28:00 State Tax Regulations for Car Purchases
  • 28:29 Handling Titles and State Inspections
  • 29:08 Auction Fees and Buying Process
  • 29:56 Selling Your Car at GAA
  • 31:44 Placing and Pricing Cars for Auction
  • 35:08 Running and Driving Requirements
  • 35:29 Handling Large Car Collections
  • 37:21 Post-Auction Sales and Consignments
  • 39:02 Auction vs. Private Sale
  • 44:23 Future of GAA and Online Auctions
  • 47:13 Upcoming Auctions and Notable Cars
  • 49:36 Electric Vehicles in Auctions
  • 51:19 Shoutouts and Closing Remarks

Bonus Content

Check out the highlights from the Summer ’22 GAA Show

Learn More

Upcoming GAA Classic Car Auctions!

With 6-acres under one roof in Greensboro, North Carolina, GAA Classic Car Auctions keeps their guests comfortable in a fully climate controlled environment.  No sun burns, no hats blowing off, no rain – just an enjoyable time!

You can follow the GAA team on social @gaaclassic on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. 

One of GAA’s most distinctive practices is encouraging sellers to stand beside their vehicles during the auction. “You’re never going to sell your car just by putting it on a number,” Johnny says. “You’ve got to be there to answer questions, to share the story.” That personal touch, he believes, makes all the difference – especially when buyers are looking for that “warm and fuzzy” feeling before making a purchase.

Photo courtesy GAA Auctions

While GAA auctions everything from pre-war classics to Ferraris, Johnny admits there’s a sweet spot: muscle cars and trucks. “We knock it out of the park with those,” he says. But don’t count out the exotics – thanks to relationships with local dealers, GAA consistently features high-end imports like Porsches and G-Wagons.


First-Time Auction Goer? Here’s What to Expect

If you’ve never attended a car auction, GAA makes it easy. There’s no gate fee – just register as a bidder. Pre-registration costs $150, and it jumps to $200 the week of the sale. Johnny recommends arriving early to inspect vehicles and verify documentation. For remote buyers, GAA offers proxy bidding and even independent inspectors who can evaluate cars on your behalf.

And yes, while wire transfers and certified checks are the norm, Johnny has seen his share of cash buyers – including one Texan who paid for eight cars with Walmart bags full of bills.

GAA’s title verification process is rigorous. Every car’s VIN is matched against its title, and background checks are run to catch any salvage or theft history. Their staff includes former DMV employees, ensuring that paperwork is handled with precision and care.

Photo courtesy GAA Auctions

GAA isn’t just about cars anymore. With the collector memorabilia market booming, Johnny and his team are adding a new twist: simultaneous memorabilia auctions. Starting in February, they’ll host morning sales of automobilia, petroleana, and vintage garage décor alongside the main event. A massive 50-foot jumbotron will anchor the new space, and Johnny predicts monthly memorabilia sales within two years.

At its heart, GAA is about connection. Whether you’re a seasoned dealer or a first-time buyer, Johnny and his team want you to feel welcome. “Car guys love cars,” he says. “They’re going to be there no matter what.”


Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.
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The following content has been brought to you by Garage Style Magazine. Because after all, what doesn't belong in your garage?

B/F: The Drive Thru #27

0

In this episode of the Gran Touring Motorsports Podcast ‘The Drive Thru News’, hosts discuss a range of topics including automotive news, Halloween-themed car decorations, and motorsport updates. The show begins with sponsorship acknowledgments and delves into a light-hearted discussion on Halloween costumes for cars. It then transitions to motorsport news, where Formula One updates, including predictions for upcoming races and discussions about changes in regulations, are discussed. The podcast also covers news and events related to various car manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Lamborghini, as well as the latest in electric vehicles from brands like Tesla and Rivian. Additionally, the hosts discuss quirky news stories including the fastest lawnmower world record and unusual vehicle regulations in California. The episode wraps up with upcoming local automotive events, motorsport reports, and a look ahead at what’s coming in future episodes.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
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Showcase: Open Wheel Racing!

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Porsche's hopes of entering Formula 1 are not over yet, suggests the FIA, despite the collapse of the German car manufacturer's original plan with Red Bull. ... [READ MORE]

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The Haas Formula 1 team has received a major financial boost after securing a new title sponsorship deal with payment company MoneyGram. ... [READ MORE]

Formula E Is Reportedly Ditching FanBoost for 2023

Fans will no longer have the ability to vote for drivers to receive extra power during a race. ... [READ MORE]

**All photos and articles are dynamically aggregated from the source; click on the image or link to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors, publishers or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.


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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motorsports related. The Drive-Throughs GTMs monthly news episode, and is sponsored in part by organizations like H P D E junkie.com, hooked on driving American muscle.com, collector car guide.net, project Motoring Garage style magazine, and many others.

If you are interested in becoming a sponsor of the drive-through, look no further than www.gt motorsports.org. Click about and then advertising. Thank you again to everyone that supports Gran Touring Motorsports, our podcast Break Fix and all the other services we provide. Welcome to the drive-through episode number 27.

This is our monthly recap where we put together a menu of automotive motor. In random car. Jason News. Now let’s pull up to window number one for our showcase. Whoa. Is it that time of year already? [00:01:00] Is Tanya High? How’s that song gonna trigger, please? Not My feet and we’re like trunk or treat. Do you have your Halloween costume for your car ready yet?

You know, I wanted to go with my favorite two pieces of brown foam over the roof of the car. It’ll look like a toaster, but I’ve reused that so many times. I gotta come up with something better. What about you, Brad? What are you thinking? Halloween costume for your R 32. Paint it white and call it a marshmallow because it looks like a giant marshmallow.

No. You know what? Maybe make like a knitted white hat and put it on top so it looks like Papa Smurf. Mm, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So paint it white and then put that strip of seaweed around it so it’s a piece of sushi. I was gonna say, you’ve got the makings of a sonic. Hey. There you go. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just needed the red and white shoes. Mm-hmm. , that might work out pretty well. What about you, Tanya? How are you gonna decorate your car? I haven’t given it. No thought. Any suggestions? Probably a new paint job, right? Because you’re not happy with the color. So , which one? We’ll talk about that more later. W won.

I’m [00:02:00] fine with the color and, and it’s tdi. I, you should just little, little blue. You just nail the throttle and you just, this costume is fog. I’m just fog . Crop duster. Yes. I’m, I like it. I’m, I’m pollution . I’m making your children sick. Noxious gas . Well, she could masquerade as a clean diesel. I mean, think about that costume.

Ooh, I would, you know what I would do is I get a little license plate surround that says my other vehicle is a. Gasoline, , cause those exist, right? Well, , but in all seriousness, it is the season for trunk or treating and trick-or-treating. And if anyone’s interested in some tips or tricks or treats, cuz they haven’t quite planned out their Halloween FIV yet this year, you can hop on over to a girls guide to cars.com and find a number of articles featuring different Halloween tips and [00:03:00] tricks, how to decorate your car if you’re going to a trunk or treat how to decorate it if you’re just looking to be fun and decorate it.

But also some helpful reminders for Halloween safety as it is the time of year when lots of children can tend to get injured by other vehicles. So pedestrian safety, public safety announcement. Don’t go speeding through your neighborhood on Halloween night as you don’t know what ghouls and goblins are running around PSA in general.

Just don’t go speeding through your neighborhood like an idiot. At any time. Halloween is not exclusive. Yes, this is true. And especially that drive-through Halloween Park in Orlando, whatever the thing was we talked about like two years ago, I wanted to ask about that. Did we hear anything about all the number of casualties that happened last year?

Because I didn’t hear anything about it. I was severely disappointed. Did not hear about number of casualties, but spoiler alert is back this year. What It must have been successful then. It is all new this year. A new 30 minute thrill ride for $20. If you find [00:04:00] yourself in Orlando, if, if you drive your own car through, how is it a thrill ride?

Unless you’re going over 80? It’s not a thrill ride. It’s a slow, it’s a, the more like a bar crawl than a thrill ride. It is Florida. If you’re behind, we don’t stuff jumping out at you. That’s quite thrilling, even if you’re going two miles an hour. But if I do recall, you drive two locations and stop. So there is no moving and having people run out with chainsaws at you , cause that would be a recipe for disaster.

If our listeners out there have some awesome Halloween traditions that they do with cars, I think we should hear about it and we’ll probably be posting about it on the break Fix Facebook group. So if you wanna jump on there and give us your tips and tricks for this Halloween, I’d be sure interested to hear about it.

I’m sure my kids would be delighted to know too. So send us your pictures of your favorite car or your car dressed up or things that you do with your car, your best trunk, or treat pictures cuz I’m curious to see ’em. But you know what else also happens in October, the whole racing season is pretty much winding down.

Whoa, whoa, [00:05:00] whoa. Unless you live in a place where there is no change in the seasons. So for those of us here on the East Coast, things are really rapidly winding down is it’s getting colder and colder every day. But what else is wrapping up is the open wheel and formula one season. So why don’t we jump into that as our showcase for the first time in 27 episodes.

Let’s kick it. With Formula One, there’s only four races left. One coming up this weekend that will have happened before the drive through airs. We do not know the recap on that as of yet. Who will take first place? It’s Lewis Max for staff and wins. Favorite track, but he did not win there last year, for the first time in forever.

I heard that Mercedes was doing some changes to their front wing. Sounded like to help with turn in. So maybe he’ll stand a chance. Likely not. So can we just make predictions for this race that has already happened when this airs. I’m [00:06:00] going to say that Vertap and Wins, followed by La Cleric, followed by Vern’s teammate Sergio.

Sergio, yeah. Ccho followed by signs, followed by Hamilton. Signs is gonna crash out and end up in like last. But isn’t Coda just like Monaco? You end where you qualify unless you screw up. No, there’s plenty of passing opportunities at Coda for the back markers. Mercedes has been so far ahead of the pack, but this is a different year.

Maybe Hamilton didn’t do so well at Coda last year because just like this year he has to explain his latest jewelry investigation. Jewelry investigation. Tell us more. I think it has something to do with his nose stud and he had to leave it in place cause he was, had an infection of some sort. Hadn’t they already got on his case about wearing jewelry during the races, like earrings.

He already, you know, the nose ring and everything like that. Like they’re very much against it. I’m like, because it’s safety, we’ll use that excuse fine, whatever. I mean as long as it fits in your helmet, it doesn’t obscure your vision or whatever, it isn’t ripping into the flame [00:07:00] retardant material element.

Why do you care? But I mean, if he’s having. Take the damn thing out. I don’t know what to say. Is this like the women that go to an office environment and they’ve got a nose ring? So they got a, a piece of, uh, band-aid over it because they can’t take it out? Well, apparently he had it like soldered in, so it was like permanent stud, so he couldn’t take it out.

And so they gave him an exception and then he took it out because of the rules and then he got an infection, so he had to put it back in. And I guess that’s where like the newest debacle is. Well, he soldered it in, so he had to use a dremel to get it out. So of course he had an infection. . He had to have somebody on the team dremel it out because he couldn’t do it himself.

Can you imagine ? I don’t know like how you do that. Anyway, I, I gotta say these jewelry rules are stupid and they’re all over the place in sports. The Yankee. That has nothing to do with Formula One, obviously. But they have all kinds of weird dress code rules as well. I don’t know if they changed them recently cause I haven’t been keeping up, but they used to have one where nobody on the team could have a beard or any facial hair whatsoever.

I [00:08:00] think they allowed mustaches at some point. But yeah, and, and no jewelry, I mean, very few people were allowed to wear jewelry and stuff. It’s, I think those rules are stupid. That mustache rule is hilarious. Cause all the baseball players look like seventies porn stars and it’s, they’re terrible. Yeah. O okay.

My Piazza , I could, I can understand those rules in a sport that could have potential contact between people. Yeah. Yeah. Because that could be a source of injury. Like Yes, baseball is not a contact sport. However, players sliding into bases, there’s potential to contact somebody else. You could have an injury that way, a tear off of jewelry or scratch.

So I could get that rule the nose stud in your nose inside your helmet. If the crash is so bad that your helmet is compromised to such an extent that the nose ring becomes a problem, it doesn’t matter anymore. You’re dead. It’s a very high problem, I think. Am I missing something? Can your family recover the [00:09:00] nose stud and sell it for millions?

You know, I could understand like a rule that’s like, don’t wear rings because why would you honestly, because your hands can swell or do whatever when you’re doing physical boards like that, or a situation of, you know, I don’t know, something happening and, and your finger getting smashed in the ring, cutting off your finger or something like that.

Or same thing with a, a necklace chain, even though that should be tucked into your suit. Not a big deal, but heaven forbid it got snagged somehow on something and I don’t know, chokes you but your nose stud, I don’t know, earrings. If you had an earring, like again, if your helmet’s that far compromised, you are not giving a, an F1 about your nose ring in this picture.

He’s got his AirPods in. Does he wear them when he is racing too? Is he out there listening to like Jay-Z and Oz or wear whatever the hell lu listen to? Well, they all have an earpiece, right? Well, he is definitely not listening to the team. The, the joke is that he’s listening to music or something and not paying attention to them.

But you know, who never had to worry about any of this in his 60 plus years of racing? Mario [00:10:00] Formula One Champion 1978, Mario Andretti and he made some news in Formula One this month. He got back into the seat of a Formula one car, a modern. Formula one car, modernish. It was a pre four cylinder turbo McLaren thing.

It was, it sounded amazing. It sounded good. Yeah. What was it? A 2013? Yeah. Yeah, the 2013 McLaren. And he got to drive it around Laguna Seka. I don’t know how many laps he got from the video I watched. It’s only about five minutes. He did at least three and his first lap. That’s what I was saying. I was like, oh man, he is driving like he’s going to K-Mart or something.

And then he was, he was actually doing the right thing. He was hitting all his apexes. Mm-hmm. , he let it warm up. And by that third lap I was like, for an 82 year old, he is booking. I mean, you heard him going into the turns, downshifting, get right back on it. I was like, dude, he’s still got it. And you watched his lines and they were super clean and I was like, man, you go, that’s awesome.

We need another 80 year old driver out there competing against him. That’s called V [00:11:00] R G. You need like the League of Legends or something. International Race of Champions. Yeah, I, Iraq, . Yeah. Whoever’s still around, they need their own series. , the G series. Geriatric, I mean NASCAR got most of the senior citizen sponsors on their cars.

Anyway. Seattle, Viagra, A A R P. I mean, what’s the difference, right? The Silver Fox series. Uh, you know, we talked about this last month. You guys brought up the whole thing about Colton Herda and his super license and all that. And you know what, somebody followed up on exactly what you guys were talking about, that there were other drivers that would have been rejected under these F1 super license rules and they brought up eight of them.

The new super license rule, which this rule came into effect with Max for staffs move into super license in 2015. So he was the reason why they even instituted this rule, basically himself or a lot of people before him, not have qualified [00:12:00] for their super licenses into F1 and the eight drivers in reverse order.

Oh, it’s a Letterman list. Let’s go number eight, Alonzo real, number seven, Damon Hill. Whoa, number six, Alan Jones. Who the hell is he? Jensen button at number five. Number four, Nigel Mansel. Wow, that’s impressive. Can you imagine us missing the great Nigel Mansel number three. The Iceman Jimmy Reichen, really, because apparently he had like three days of racing or something ridiculous.

It wasn’t three, but he didn’t have very many races under his belt. Number two, this one surprises the hell outta me, Nikki. Louder really? Because essentially he bought his way through , F two, and into F1 the good old days. And then number one, Mr. Max for step and himself who brought this rule. That’s an interesting [00:13:00] list of folks.

The history books would be a lot different if this rule was in place. So that’s where I’m getting at. Why does this have to be so complicated? If you wanna buy your way in, you can afford to run on a Formula One team. No. Cause Maan is the reason why they don’t want that . He might spin, isn’t that what his, isn’t that how you pronounce it?

Maz ma Apin. I feel like this is just another barrier of entry. Exactly. Or people that don’t look like the rest of the people that are already on the F1 grid. Yeah. It’s just another barrier of entry and, and a long list of other barriers of entry to, to prevent people like women, people of color and things like that from getting access and be having an opportunity.

Americans in general. Yeah. Having an opportunity to race on, you know, open Wheels. Biggest stage. It’s kind of sad. They talk about, you know, Mario, the American F1 winner and all that, and I’m not discrediting any of his wins because they’re all legitimate, his championship and everything, but. He was a [00:14:00] naturalized American dual citizenship or whatever.

He, since what Scott Speed was the last one that really tried and that didn’t go anywhere Michael tried That didn’t go anywhere. There was always like something in the way to get an American F one driver out there and it’s like this Colton Herda thing is just, again, they’re playing these games. To your point, we don’t want the Americans here and I don’t understand why do we not have the talent?

It’s like they’re redlining. Just to circle back, to give credit to Mr. Allen Jones, in case anyone is wondering who he is. He was a one-time world champion from 1980. Australian drivers is why I don’t know him. . Okay. He’s like that guy who played one bond film, laser bean. He was awesome. And he was also from Australia.

It’s an Australia. He was a Williams driver in case anyone else wanted more fun facts. I don’t believe that a Williams car won . There used to be something back in the day. Yeah, they definitely were. Ways, oh, there still, now there’s something. . I hear that in [00:15:00] imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, so Ferari.

Trying to be Ferrari now, whatever. Their car had a little flame incident in pit lane during, I think it was Singapore Grand pre next. At least they were in pit lane. I, everyone was right there and as we were about to roll him back outta pit lane and then Bosh , whoops. Anti-climatic. And the Singapore race was actually quite interesting.

Not really. Yes, no, it’s a city cor, it’s a city track, right? Mm-hmm. . So it’s a street course, very tight. Essentially it’s follow the leader. So the position you started in was basically the position you ended in. So Sergio took the early lead right off the line and that’s where the race ended with Sergio Teco Perez coming in first, followed by two three, Ferrari finish.

There was some interesting, whoops and almost misses throughout that race. Uncharacteristic lockup by Louis, which totally shunted his chance at [00:16:00] pressuring into third place. Baffin had terrible grid position. I forget, I don’t know what penalties he got that he ended up like eighth when he started, and then obviously didn’t break back into the top three.

Cuz it’s a really hard track to pass people on and you know, that was that race. . And then we had Suzuka, which was a cluster. I watched the first couple laps and then it stopped for two hours. . Yeah, exactly. It was, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What? I had to go. I had, I had other things to do. I had grocery shopping and kid detail.

Yes. It was like a nine hour race and eight and a half of those hours was not doing anything. That’s an exaggeration. So it started, it was raining and under the glorious judgment of, I don’t know who, everyone started on inters, on intermediate tires. I was very confused by this. When I saw the lineup of the names and everyone had the inter tires next to their name, it is actively raining.

Why are you not going out on wets? And it’s not even like the radar was like, oh, well in the next five minutes it’s gonna [00:17:00] stop raining. So you know, I don’t wanna be on wets. No, no, no. It was like actively raining and going to be actively raining for like the next several hours and everybody went out on inters.

What happened partway through lock one Carlos rear end broke loose and he crashed. Then somebody else had like a, a failure and ended up red flagging the race basically on lap two. And then they sat there for like two hours, not doing anything, waiting for the rain to subside. And then when they finally decided to go back out, everybody put wets on.

It wasn’t raining. So then what happens two, three laps later, they’re all freaking coming in and switching back to enters because the whats are terrible cuz it’s not actively raining. , how many pit incidents were there? There were, there were a few, or people were like leaving the pit lane side by side and all this crazy stuff and somebody touched somebody else in the pit too.

I mean, it was, it was complete pandemonium. That’s butt slaps, right? I mean there’s, yeah, I mean there was a whole thing and, and like galey, it was whole kind of funny. See, he was so [00:18:00] pissed because when Carlos Rek, they red flagged, but they moved the recovery crane out onto the track. There was so much road spray, you could not see a single thing.

So people got very upset because the same thing happened on Suzuka a number of years ago. Jules Bianchi ended up dying because it was wet rain conditions. There was a crane out attending to another car. He ended up losing control right near the crane and he went at like however many million miles an hour into the crane and he ended up coma, blah, blah.

Months later he’s. Come to those injuries and died. They did the exact same thing. Zero visibility. There was a crane out on the track. These drivers didn’t even know. Gly was like super pissed when he came in cuz he drove right by it. However, later got like a huge penalty cuz he was speeding under red flag.

But there’s like a whole thing that like it hadn’t come through yet on like our little steering wheel that there was a red flag. So like he didn’t slow down. The whole race was a cluster. . Baffin one. LeClair came in second. Sergio came in third. La Clare ends up in third because he [00:19:00] bombed through the last corners, cutting them.

Biking line, ended up getting a five second penalty. Brilliant. Baffin was declared. Two, two-time world champion at this. . Yeah. So the, the rest of the season is kind of mod. It’s the rest of the season is now who’s gonna get second place? . So who is gonna get second place? Do we have any psychic? They’re still trying to figure out the constructor Championship as well.

Right. Comes down to Ferrari powered or not Ferrari powered. Right. I mean that’s how Formula One is right now. No, cuz Red Bulls pretty much gonna win. Who are their engines by Honda? It wasn’t, is it still Honda? Yeah. They don’t have their engines yet, right? They claim to have their, or they their own powertrain.

I can’t keep track of those people. It’s not a Ferrari or Mercedes powertrain. No, but they were No. Right. That’s where I’m all lost. No, they, they were Reno and then they switched to Honda and then I think Honda pulled out. Yeah, it’s still, it’s still Honda. Oh it is still Honda. There’s still Honda until the Motor Power Unit swap in 2026.

Oh. Which is when Audi is coming into [00:20:00] the playing field. Because unlike the whole Porsche thing, they’ve committed to build power units starting 2026 committed in so far as they’re like, we’re gonna start RA winning races within three years. They’re already throwing down the gauntlet. Something about how they’re working with the current Alpha male team.

So this goes back to the same question. Is it Audi’s chassis Alpha slash Ferrari power plant with some stickers, like what are we doing here? But you’re saying they’re gonna build their own motor so then it’s not the alpha male team, they’re just taking over. The Alpha Romeo, engineering and management and all that stuff.

They’re replacing the Alpha team. They have a 75% buyout deal with Saber, who owns Alpha. They’re supposed to be building power units now. The car that they unveiled in August already, which is ver and nice looking, very nice, is Audi. Audi rings all over it. Audi colors. It reminds me of the Decar tron thing that they made.

Yes. It’s like the same style. [00:21:00] It’s got those same Grays branding. Yeah, exactly. Branding smart. I mean, the Porsche one didn’t look like a Porsche, that’s for sure. It looked like something else with stickers on it. This, to your point, looks like what we expect from an Audi race car. Now I still harken back to the A L M S days of the R eight with the silver and the little color on their nose and all that kind of thing.

But this is their new thing for, you know, the 2020s is this, this multicolor grays and blacks and red and it definitely sticks out. It’s definitely pretty cool, but we gotta wait a couple more years. Right before they even hit the stage. They’re not gonna have cars until 24, is that right? They can’t do anything until 2026 because for now what they’ve been saying is they’re gonna supply the power unit and in.

thought there was something to the effect that they’ve got a unit that’ll be ready even later this year or next year for testing. So they’re definitely doing something with power units. I don’t think they can do anything earlier than 26 cuz they’re gonna have to be adhering to whatever the new rules are.

And then it’s T B [00:22:00] D in the future if they’re forced to share power units. So maybe there could be Williams running Audi power plants don’t know. So the bigger question is, what does this mean for Porsche? Because you know what happens wherever VW and Audi go, Porsche soon follows. So they’re gonna come and swoop in and say, that’s great, thanks for designing that car.

And then they’re gonna slap their stickers on it and claim that they made the engine and all this stuff. Uh, the way I see it is it’s a four cylinder power plant or whatever it is now. So they’re gonna go grab a two liter turbo out of an A four. Modify the hell out of it and uh, we’re gonna go to f1.

Well, the whole thing was they were gonna do their separate things, right? They wanted to have both teams out there. And then the whole Porsche Red Bull thing fizzled out. So now Porsche is basically screwed, sort of, but they’re still like, I wanna play at the party. Let me in. So they’re still dancing around in the background.

And the question now is do they still buy into another team partner with the Williams, Andrei, something happened there and they go with Andrei. I just don’t understand how Volkswagen can afford to run two [00:23:00] full teams. It doesn’t make sense. Like why wouldn’t they just do Porsche and V and Audi together, maybe run two cars on the same team instead of two Audis, just a Porsche and an Audi under the same management?

I mean, the cars aren’t gonna be that different at the end of the day. Cuz let’s face it, who’s building the chassis? Is it Audi’s chassis? Is it Delara somebody else? Right? You get into that game, which we talked about before, even when Porsche came to the table, it was whoever’s chassis with a Honda motor, with a Porsche badge on it.

And, and so it’s not, they’re not building these cars from scratch. So it’s sort of like, why field two teams of two cars? . They’re doubling down. More advertising for them I guess, but they’re competing against themselves. It’s, it’s silly. That’s what they always do. But it, I mean it’s, it’s supposed to be a team team though.

It’s shake and bake. It’s not just shake and shake . It’s not how it works. . It’s not twice bake. Shake it and then you bake it. No, it’s not. It’s not. Not bacon baked twice baked. [00:24:00] No it’s not. Bacon baked, triple baked. You know who’s sitting around going Team team. There’s no I in team, Danny, Rick, cuz he’s not on anybody’s team.

W Wall. W what A fall from, not even Grace. I don’t know what his, he had a huge misstep when he left Red Bull Rubble. Basically. Yeah, I mean, he’s your boy. Come on, it’s Danny Rick. Yeah, something’s going on. He’s just not the same driver he used to be. That kind of answers the question. Was it the car or was it him?

It’s obviously the car that cowboy hat that he’s been sporting over the last week. What is going on? Is he a rodeo dude now? Like what is he doing? That’s his shtick to be funny and lighthearted and humorous wherever he goes. And I think he just loves Texas, so he now got that cowboy handle on. He’s very much like Richard Hammond.

He is a closet American, drive’s a Mustang, goes to cars and coffee, runs over a bunch of people and yeah, that’s why he doesn’t drive enough one anymore. I thought you would be more heartbroken about this, Brad. I know there are [00:25:00] people out there that. Devastated that Danny Rick isn’t gonna be on the last

I, I, I am. I am disappointed because I think there are other drivers that deserve to go versus him. But for instance, I think Lance Stroll doesn’t deserve a place on the grid. I think Danny Rick does, but Danny Rick doesn’t have the deep pockets that Stroll does. Yeah. And his daddy doesn’t own the team. He is actually in a great spot right now that he won’t be tethered to Formula One if he turns his eyes the right way next year with G T P and LeMans and w e c do like Alonzo did, get yourself into an L M P car, get your crown somewhere else.

Right. And maybe he’s better suited to sports car and prototype racing. We shouldn’t really feel bad for Danny Re if he’s doing the right things. He’s looking for another seat in another discipline. He’s got a shit ton of money. I don’t feel bad for him. Yeah. I would totally go to Daytona and watch him race in the 24 hour at the Rolex.

A hundred percent. Yeah. Yes, I would do that. Or he could go to [00:26:00] WRC and nobody else would ever see him race again. the League of Legends. The other big news, the other person who’s leaving wishes gonna break many hearts and crush many souls. Is the one the only. Gofi Who? Gofi the goat. Hamilton’s out. No.

Latifi? No. Oh, . Gofi. Latifi. They kicked his ass out. He made a funny, oh, oh. This is what I get for not watching Drive to Survive. Yeah. He doesn’t pay attention to f1, so he doesn’t know that Latifi is called gif. He as a joke that he’s the goat at sucking

So finally Williams made a smart move and they’re kicking him to the curb. And I believe Nick DeVry, who had the most awesome job interview a couple races ago when he sat in for Alex Alban appendicitis emergency procedure and actually scored points for like first [00:27:00] time in a while for Williams. Um, I think he got the seat.

Yeah. Good job. . Good job. And he was the test driver, right? Is what you told me. Something like that. And then he was reserved, so they put him in the seat and uh, he did very well for first time actually out there competing. So he will be on a full-time seat. Awesome. Good friend. Congratulations. Meanwhile, I think there’s news from.

They have a new sponsor. What? Woo is it? Rich Energy again? Bang Energy is going

No, they’ve signed on with MoneyGram. They’re still around. Yeah. Oh, wow. I thought they went out of business like a decade ago. Like who? MoneyGram. Really? It’s a lot bigger in other countries. Like Rich Energy was, oh, because we gotta wire the money to the Nigerian print. So you still need MoneyGram. I understand because the banks won’t let you wire funds to people on the OAC list.

But MoneyGram May or Formula One teams, that’s how worth their for. No, no. You’re thinking of Force [00:28:00] India. . . Good for Haas. Good for Haas because since he might spin’s, dad pulled all his money out. They gotta get sponsorship from somewhere. Ma pin’s dad is involved in MoneyGram, and maybe it’s his backdoor.

We’re, we’re funneling money around somehow. You know, again, MoneyGram is still a thing. Seriously. MoneyGram is headquartered in Dallas, Texas. What? That’s unbelievable. But in a world of Venmo and PayPal and Insta Funds and Cash app and people still use MoneyGram, I mean, I’m, I’m hung up on this. I’m gonna be thinking about this the whole episode.

Wait, this is so MoneyGram. Okay, so this makes sense Now, MoneyGram does the, uh, money orders? No. The post office does the money orders? No, no, no. You can go into 7-Eleven and buy like a MoneyGram money order. I believe my mind is melted. There are a lot of people out there that don’t have checking accounts or can’t have checking accounts, so they do everything through money order.

And who do you get your money orders from? Money. Congratulations, TOAs. [00:29:00] They have us, but I I’ve got one more question though. When does the MoneyGram book come out? . So everybody’s picking up the the Rich Energy book. So when are we gonna get a MoneyGram book? I gotta email Elizabeth and find out. They got like a a three book deal, right?

The next three Hot sponsors. . Yeah. It’s gonna be Rich Energy, MoneyGram and aol. . There’s a trilogy. I still have an AOL CD on my desk. I’d use it as a coaster. My girls asked me the other day, what is that thing with the little yellow man on it? I’m like, it was a weird conversation. Let me tell you. These used to come in the mail, all the CD

So do the money grams come in the mail. There’s other news coming outta. And I love this quote. I guess they decided to cut Mick Schumacher finally because he cost them a fortune and he has wrecked a lot of cars that have cost us a lot of money. It was very profound. I mean, that’s a Yogi bearer quality quote right there.

Mick [00:30:00] costs a fortune. He wrecked a lot of cars that have cost us a lot of money. When you come to a fork in the road, take it . That’s exactly what makes Schumacher’s been doing. He comes to a fork in the road and he takes it and he wrecks the car, and now he costs Gene Haass a ton of money. I think the problem is he doesn’t take the fork in the road.

He’s taken straight down the middle of the fork where there’s no road straight, straight down the fork. That’s why Haass is using MoneyGram, because Gene Haass is paying his people with money orders. , , the check is in the mail. Literally it feels like the pot calling the kettle black. They have to blame somebody.

Now the Mazak has gone, felt like he was wrecking a car, not only in free practice, free practice, two qualifying, and in the race it was like every time he set foot in the car, it was either blowing up or wrecking or whatever. So it’s like really? I mean, fine. Again, you wanna find a way to cut him loose, but the question is now, Make Schumacher’s future.

And like I said last month, just like Danny, Rick, I think he should go somewhere else [00:31:00] and come back to Formula One. So at what point do we not blame the driver and start looking at the car? Mak, he bought his way in whatever, but Schumacher, he actually did really well in F two. Yeah. Didn’t he win the championship in F two before moving up to f1?

But the F two cars are totally different. They’re like Skippy cars, right? They’re all the same. They’re underpowered. I, I don’t think it’s, cuz he lacks skill though. I mean he probably drives better than most of us, but, well that’s not hard. , I mean they’re all super talented, right? Or they wouldn’t be there to some extent except for the guy that got beat by the test driver.

I mean come on. Seriously? Yeah, there’s always an exception to every rule, but for the most part like should be exceptional drivers because F1 is the pinnacle of racing, right? So it’s like you hired everybody who was number one in their school, in their class and then you put them all against each other.

Well someone’s not gonna be number one anymore. . So it’s weird cuz it’s like these are all top drivers, but then clearly there’s somebody who’s coming in for a second, third and someone who’s coming in [00:32:00] 18, 19, 20, right? Or not at all. again, I argue that there should be just like there is in wrc, F1 A and F1 B and there’s a champion and the lower half and whatever.

Because if you divide the top 10 from the bottom 10, it’s two totally different races. Okay. Put max for staffing in the host car. Can he still be number. because clearly he’s driving wise. Amazing. Right? Or the Red Bull is just so far out of the league. But if you put him in the hos car, if he can’t finish better than whatever position, then it’s like, okay, then it’s a car problem.

Right? And they don’t have the money to put into their car cuz they really didn’t this year. Like everyone else has exceeded their budget caps or just at their budget cap and like they haven’t hit it yet. So it’s like they’re intentionally not spending money. So they’re not making any improvements. And so if you ever got a shitty car, didn’t we already prove that with Hamilton?

Once they changed the Mercedes? He is, it’s like 10th place all the time. He doesn’t, can’t get outta his own way. So was it him or was it the car? So he went from goat to Gofi in one [00:33:00] season, right? Because Russell, up until the last few races was always top five finishing in a Mercedes. So how did they tune the cars different from each other?

The same team, same Mercedes cars, but one is doing worse than the other. That was a criticism that. Masin had, and his father had of the Haas team last year was that Mick was getting the better car. That’s like saying you’re getting the better go-kart at the go-kart track. I get that , I don’t know, but I feel like Formula One has always been this way since the days of Lotus where it’s like.

Cheat as much as you can until you get caught and then just kind of pull back. And so that’s why you see these huge discrepancies and they changes, but the cars are all the saved by regulation. Yeah, I think that’s bs. They can’t be, you can see that they’re not, because the Red Bulls pull away and they pull away sometimes at staggering gaps to everyone else.

And it’s like, how, how is that possible? And I mean, one could say that that was the case for the Mercedes for years and [00:34:00] years and years. Cuz it was like, you know, Hamilton’s in the lead and nobody can touch the Mercedes and now suddenly nobody can touch the Red Bulls. I mean it’s unfortunate for Mick, you hate to see it cuz of his father.

Not only is he out of the seat for ho but he is, he no longer has that Ferrari seat either. Haass has a new sponsor, but do they have any drivers for next year? So another thing that they’ve said is Gunther. It is either Gunther or Jean. I don’t know which one it was. But someone from Haas has basically, they said they’re done with rookies.

They do not want to seat drivers anymore that are rookies. They want somebody with experience in their seats. They’re, they don’t want train them. I believe Gunther said, we’re fucking down with these fucking rookies, . That sounds about right. That’s, that’s, that sounds about right. Gunther quote. That’ll be on drive to survive next season.

It’s true. So it’ll be interesting to see who they. There. Danny, Rick, Danny, Rick, , . Can I just say I’m tired of F1 and F1 fan, boys and girls saying F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport. It’s the self-proclaimed pinnacle of motorsport. I don’t think it’s actually the pinnacle of [00:35:00] motor sport. It’s, it’s not the greatest motors sport in the history of the world.

I’m tired of people saying that. I keep saying it. Multi-class endurance racing is the pinnacle of motorsport. And to your point about they should have F1 A and F1 B, so the F1 grid is essentially multi-class racing. . That’s my point. They’re gold, silver, bronze level, right? Just like it is in sports, car racing.

Silver fox level. Just bring Mario Andretti back. They’ll be much better off for it. He can run for Haas. No problems sir. Go run for the Andretti team. For those of you that actually pay attention to Formula E. It is reportedly ditching their fan boost option for the next season. There’s Formula e . Are they replacing fan boost with checkpoints from like fours of Horizon?

No. Do it like Man, Nintendo. What was it? Rad racer. So like, yes, if you were missing the checkpoint, your car started to slowing down, but you could like still coast through that checkpoint and then like boom, the power’s back on . Do it like that. Yes. Have Elon Musk [00:36:00] get the button Turning people’s power off in one.

You know the other thing that’s going away, like I mentioned this month, is Formula W, the women’s version of Formula One is no longer gonna happen. Going back to what we were talking about, multi-class formula racing, I was always against the idea of having something separate. Why, to your point, Brad, from earlier about all these gates and the super licensing and everything we talked about, when are we gonna see the first female Formula One driver?

I didn’t think the series was ending. I thought the series was just ending early this year. Cause they ran outta money, but that’s it. They ran outta money. It’s over for the season, but it’s not necessarily that they’re not gonna get money yet for next season, right? W Series is ending their 2022 season early to focus on fundraising for the 2023 season.

So they’re trying to raise funds for next year. You know how they do that money Graham? When are we gonna start seeing Rich Energy at W Series cars? When are we gonna get our first Formula? One female driver. Apparently we’ve had one. Wait, we did, she’s from Italy [00:37:00] years ago. Really? Lela Lombardi, no woman, has raced in a world championship F1 race since Lela Lombardi’s 12th place.

Finish in the 1976 Austrian Grand Prix, which ended her brief. 17 Grand Pix spell across 1974 and 76. Still, by far the longest racing career in F1 for any female driver. You learn something new every day. Look at that. She did better than any host driver . Maybe they should look into her. Maybe Hosh should go the W series route.

Probably a good time for us to transition to more normal automotive news and get out of our showcase here and talk about Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche News really quick. And we’ve mentioned for several months now that Porsche is going public. You know they’re gonna be traded on the NASDAQ and things like that.

Their I P O is topping the tip top tip of the range. And financial advisors and investors are going crazy. 73. Billion dollar I p O. That’s huge for a car company, especially a Porsche size. So like we said before, if you’re looking to invest, you know, it might be time to jump [00:38:00] in on some of that Porsche stock, although then again, it might cost you as much as a brand new GT three.

So I, is the ticker gonna be poor ? Uh, that’s good. I like that. Meanwhile, in Lambo land, which most people recognize Lamborghini as one of the youngest hottest Italian auto manufacturers, except they got bought by the Germans like 15 years ago or so now, and most Lamborghini are just really old R eights underneath.

That being said, Lamborghini, as we’ve mentioned before, they’re opting for A G T P, that’s the former LMP one category of Lamont’s, W E C racing with their own entry. I’m excited to see what. L n p Lamborghini looks like, because traditionally they’ve run in GT classes with the Porsches and the ASINs and the Ferrari and everybody else, but we’re gonna have to wait until 2024.

I’m tired of waiting. Yeah, me too. It all seems like we gotta wait another four or five years. But what it signals to me is Lamborghini [00:39:00] is probably gonna get Porsche’s leftovers after this year because Porsche’s gotta come to the big stage first. Right. It’s all in the family. It will be a different power plant.

It’s gonna be a v. So you say to yourself, wait, didn’t Lamborghini say that they have this phased EV plan? Well, they’re saying gas V8 2024, so we’re gonna have to wait a couple more years to see what Lambo does. Meanwhile, I think somebody is a little burgundy with envy. Excuse me. Why? Because Pam block’s daughter has your cuatro with the crack paint color,

And they built it in no time flat. It must be nice to build a car in no time flat when you have a shit ton of money right in a squad of mechanics at your beck and call. I enjoyed this video. It’s in the show notes. It’s her taking her new old car, I guess you could say a not fully Hogan out Long body Audi Quattro Coop.

First generation out there. Again, I, I don’t know where they’re finding these cars cause there’s not that many of ’em to [00:40:00] begin with, but they happen to get another one. It is Tchen red, you know, they put the car together rather quickly. I’ve been following the videos and the other day they went out for a test drive for the first time.

She also went for her driver’s license and I found this video really, really entertaining. There were some pretty accurate depictions of what goes on when you drive one of these cars. . You don’t say, let’s start with the ye shall find second gear if you can’t find it. Grind it. Ye . He was just like, just skip to third.

And then you just hear the whole thing just bogged down completely. I’m like, yep. That’s what it’s like driving a five cylinder Audi. Yep. Pretty much . That’s fine. You, you just, you gotta take your time. You gotta take your time a little bit. Having owned these cars, I worked on these cars personally. You need to be as if you were driving a Bentley transition from one gear to the other.

The minute you speed shifted, everything binds up and it’s over. It’s not gonna happen because his car has one of those fancy antsy, pistol grip, super rally shifters, sequential [00:41:00] job or whatever he is got in there and it’s nothing like her street car. So I, I’m glad that they just didn’t build a replica and paint it red.

Well, I enjoyed when they turned the heat on or. Air condit something and all of a sudden, like, stuff puffed out of the ves, did you catch that ? It’s like, yeah, that happens all the time. The other one is where your, the bottom of your shoes get really, really hot when you drive in front. Yeah. I was like, oh, honey, she, what is she?

Whatever she said, she was like, oh yeah, I’m, and my like, feet got Really? It was getting really hot. I’m like, oh yeah, honey. Yeah. Your legs gonna start to burn after a while. . Yep. That tunnel gets real warm up there with it in those tunnel. Those you don’t got a problem in the wintertime in those cars. . Yeah.

I, I love how she’s like, oh, the dashboard’s all clunky and it wasn’t even bolted down. Well, it wasn’t even that one was like, it’s not even attached thought. I heard her say it like she put on the turn signal and nothing happened. I was like, well, that, no, she put the turn signal on and her lights started flashing or something.

and the headlights started blinking. That’s [00:42:00] normal . You don’t get used to that too. Are you sure it’s not? You turn the, the turn signal on and the battery voltage is, is, is fluttering and it’s causing the headlights to blink. Yeah. Yeah. This is why you use a 20 valve alternator and all sorts of other fun upgrades.

Yeah. I mean, the five cylinder world, for those that don’t know, it’s very peculiar. There’s a lot of things you gotta do. There’s a lot of things you gotta update and backdate. It’s perfectly fine. It, it is, it’s fun to see somebody spending time with these cars, with new eyes, but the things that she’s complaining about or, or really not complaining about, uh, we’re, I’m just like, yeah, that’s, that’s, you’ll get used to it.

It’s not a Subaru. It is what it. Well, it’s time that we move on to Lower Saxony. We actually have some news from both Mercedes and BMWs. So what’s up? What is up Indeed? So if anyone’s in the market for a new Mercedes-Benz, the new EV Mercedes on the E Q S platform, the 2023 suv, you can [00:43:00] hop on over to a girls guide to cars.com and get a very nice review from Sarah Lacey on this new Mercedes model.

I like it. , but I liked more when I got done reading the article where it said, Hey, check out this 2021 G L S 63. That is a nice S U v. I just don’t pay attention to those. And then when I started looking at it, this one had some wheels, some other stuff done too. It, I was like, that’s a handsome looking car.

I’d be okay with that. The new one, I’m not sure, it’s still that no grill. Grill. At least they give it a grill. I don’t really like the ones where they don’t give the cars the grills anymore. I don’t know. It must be from years of just seeing cars with grills, it’s, it’s weird. The Tesla look, I like it. Even if it’s the faux grill, the styling’s a little bit better than some of the more recent SUVs.

They’re very elongated looking and very squished. I don’t know, maybe this one is still like that, but it looks a little bit maybe rounder in the front and not so [00:44:00] much as like a squished hot dog roll. So, I don’t know. I’m not in the market for Mercedes, but if you’re in the market for an electric Mercedes, you might wanna try this one out.

The interior looks very posh, very nice. I mean, if somebody offered you a gold wing Mercedes, you wouldn’t take it. Yes, a hundred percent. You’re not in the market. You’re always in the market for an S SLS or a gtr. Come on. Now, if you’re saying that market is free, then yes, . Well, speaking of all these improvements that Mercedes is making, it’s been reported that some of the new interiors, as cool as they are, touch this, do that.

You know, we’ve heard B M W talking about you’re gonna have to pay for features, you know, and unlock them, like achievements and all this kind of thing in your car with a subscription plan, heated seats and all this. If you’ve used any of these infotainment systems that exists, everything’s integrated now, right?

It’s all into your, your dash and your radio and all that. And there’s actually sites out there that rank them. And for the longest time, like the Uconnect [00:45:00] system that Mopar and Chrysler were using was like one of the top ones cuz it was simple, it was durable, you know, this, that, and the other thing. And then you had like, you know, the Q and Volkswagen system and all this and B M W, where they didn’t want you to touch every anything, so you had to use a knob to make it all work.

That being said, Mercedes has said, you know what? You know that whole don’t make me think thing, you know, no more than two clicks. Five. Five click. To get to certain features. I don’t have time for that. Where are my physical buttons? To turn on my heated seat, to turn on my ac, to turn on my freaking radio.

And you know who agrees with me, Johnny, ive the designer of the iPod and the iPad from Apple, and he says, card manufacturers need to go back to physical buttons in the cars. And I say, amen. That’s a bold statement from somebody from Apple. Yes, because they got rid of the buttons on the iPhones, and I want mine back.

And you, and you alone . I I, I, I am alone. But I do agree with the [00:46:00] buttons in the car. So five buttons on an L C D screen, that’s about four too many. A physical button. You get that muscle memory, you can reach your arm out. You generally know where your arm is reaching to. You feel it. It’s tactile. You understand what it is.

You can move it. You don’t have to concentrate too much. I gotta be slipping through menu screens like I’m ordering at wherever, or I’m searching through Netflix on my tablet. That’s distracting while you’re driving down the road. Yeah, a hundred percent. What the heck is that? But you’re not supposed to be the one driving, the car’s supposed to be driving you, so you’re just supposed to be spending your time playing with the buttons and stuff and keeping yourself occupied.

While autopilot crashes into something. Yeah. While it crashes into something. You want to be in the utmost level of comfort when you total your car. . Well, where’s, where’s the voice activation technology? Right? I mean, if you’re gonna have five clicks to adjust your seat, because there’s no longer a button to adjust your seat.

First of all, there’s an [00:47:00] inherent problem with adjusting your seat from a menu system. Yeah. Give me a button on my seat. I reach down, I move it. Come on now. Audi figured this out in 1990. Okay. They figured out electronic moving seats with Little Joy. 1990, they had little joysticks. Yeah. Who is the car manufacturer that has the optional mandatory OnStar subscription?

Wait till you have to call OnStar. Hey OnStar. Can you move my seat back three clicks and turn up the heaters and some big person answers the phone. Excuse me, sir. It shows here that your subscription has not been renewed for that service. Would you like to enter your credit card number now? ? Yeah. Let me pull it out while I’m driving down the road at 90 miles an hour.

That would be great. Yeah. Would you like me to engage autopilot while you get your credit card out? See what happened was, the way my bank account’s set up is I need to transfer monies from my, my savings accounts to my check-ins accounts. . I’m sorry, sir. We do not accept money. Graham , if it’s good enough for host, it’s good enough for me.

Oh, what It [00:48:00] sounds like we all need to be riding around in night 2000, the night rider. So you just talk to it. Be like, kit, my butt’s cold. You’ll be like, okay. You get seats on. Michael, did you just say to open my butt hole? . . I feel like a snap comeback kit. My butt’s cold. Well, Michael, maybe you should be wearing pants.

Woo. What else is going on with Mercedes? So much to most Americans, nothing cuz they could have cared less. If anyone remembers the little smart car, the joint venture between Mercedes and Swatch, yes. The Watchman That’ss fine. That’s delightful. Who doesn’t love a nice swatch? Who doesn’t have a swatch? If you don’t have one, go get one.

You’ve been missing out. That’s the next F1 sponsor. Swatch , no Swatch is gonna sponsor Mercedes factory. Team Smart left our shores in 2019 and now they’re reinventing [00:49:00] themselves. Mercedes is joint venturing with Gilley Group. Isn’t that that movie with Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck? G , giggly . Glee.

Gilley. I don’t know how you pronounce it. Quite honestly, it’s the group in China that owns Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, ah, et cetera, et cetera. Ah, that one. Oh, those guys. Yeah. Yeah, those, those G’s Gilleys are partnering with Mercedes-Benz to offer a new improved all electric smart car, hashtag one.

Um, and much to the disappointment, it will not be coming to our shores. So the car is called the number one pronounced hashtag one. What? What? And they’ll have a hashtag two and a hashtag three. I don’t wanna live in this world anymore. I’m all done. You thought it was bad when it was with Swatch, but maybe that was a good thing.

I like the way it. It [00:50:00] looks better than the key to Soul. It looks better than the Mini Cooper. Yes, it looks better than the polo. It looks better than pretty much everything in this class, in this size. And no, it is not the goofy baby shoe of a smart car that we had before. This is a four door mini compact hatchback and it actually looks really good.

I’d be okay with this. It does. So I am a little disappointed that we’re not gonna see this, but I think just like a lot of other cars that probably should have never come to the United States, the first smart car has soured us all and the expectation is we’re gonna get this thing that looks like a P L P 50.

But no, it actually, it looks really neat. All jokes aside, I do actually like the way it looks. If you had just put this in front of somebody without the smart on the front of it, they wouldn’t know that it was a smart car. So unfortunate it’s only going to be sold for now in China and Europe. Who knows, maybe in the future cars this small really struggle in the US and they’re going full electric, so there’s not gonna be any other options for it.

And that’s [00:51:00] just another strike against it for this market, you know, where they could park that smart car inside the new grills of the B M W G T P V8 hybrid with the name that, you know, takes an hole encyclopedia to ride out. I mean, I, I could park myself in one of those grills. They look like those honeycomb hotels like they have in Asia.

Yes, in Japan. Seriously, this w is probably like the M eight. It’s gonna be bigger than every other G T P car on the road, and you’re gonna find parts of them inside of these grills. Can I just say though, all of these new hybrid air cars are fantastic. Yeah. They have me so ready for next year, and I’ve never been a big prototype guy.

I’ve always been more the, I guess the sports car side with the GTLM cars and the GTD cars. But these, I’m all in for these guys. I can’t wait to see ’em. You know what’s really cool about this? I don’t know if you guys noticed or not, but if you zoomed in on the pictures that we [00:52:00] posted with the show notes, they’ve talked about the BMW on the big stage, coming to Lamonts, Lamonts, Lamonts.

But if you look really, really closely, just over the nostril in the blue section, ia, there’s the IMSA stickers. Yeah. So there’s a high probability we’re gonna see this card next year on our shores, maybe even at Rolex. So I’m speculating there. But to have the IMSA badges on there, it’s not like us, where we collect ’em at the race and slap him on our cars.

That’s legit. Sir, are we going to Rolex? Might have to, uh, consider it to go see these bad boys. I guess they redesigned the new X five. Using who? Oh, sorry, hold on. Oh, sorry. Continue using the template of the GT Lamont’s car because, oh, I just, I don’t know what to say. It’s really bad. Who’s in charge at B M W?

Like what is this? This front is horrific, and it’s not even the grills that are bothering me. It’s what is going on with these lights? There’s like three tiers of lights or, or is that second tier even [00:53:00] lights? Is that an air duct? I can’t tell. This photo’s not great. It, it reminds me of the, the Jeep Cherokee that had the three headlights, right.

And the front, they were stacked. Mm-hmm. and mm-hmm. . I, I realized why they have to do this. It’s like trifocal, lense. Where you, you look out mm-hmm. over the top one. Mm-hmm. . And you look down because the damn thing is so tall. You need multi-tier of lights to be able to actually light up the road and not be, you know, spotting helicopters and stuff because this thing is mammoth, but you’re gonna need a step ladder to get inside of it.

It’s just so big. And that front end probably comes to my forehead. I don’t understand. They keep making these things just gigantic. So to have multiple headlights, you need something to illuminate the road. Otherwise, you’re a lighthouse. I don’t like it. I It’s ugly. It a hundred percent. It’s ugly. And this is the X eight, not the X five.

Does it really matter? Well, it does. They’re two completely different vehicles. I can tell you exactly what the X five is gonna look like. So we’re gonna put that in the Xerox machine and we’re gonna put it on shrink by [00:54:00] 25% and then you’re gonna get X five. It also says this is just a rendering based on what the Spy Photos show.

Do not ruin my hate . I hate it with you. The back end reminds me of like that Acura Z Dx or whatever. Oh yeah, yeah. Like you’re like straight but sloped kind of backend. It’s just, I don’t know, it’s, that’s like that new Volkswagen Tori Atlas thing that they chopped off the rear end. I don’t even know what they call that thing.

It’s the Atlas Cross Sport or some bullshit. I, I saw one on the road and I was like, that looks dumb. It looks like they cut the roof off. Like, why would you wanna buy that thing? And you, and then I. Can you see out of it? Can you put anything in it? Like what’s the point? Is it because it exceeds the clearance bar at the McDonald’s, so they had to chop the roof off so you could get under there?

Like, I don’t understand. Well, we should talk about Lanis. They’ve been awful quiet. And the news that’s coming out of that design house is. A new upcoming [00:55:00] biopic on Ferrari. Finally, I guess for all those Ferrari fans up there, it’s a movie or TV series about Enzo Ferrari starring the men who started House of Gucci.

None other then Adam Driver, is that Kylo Ren? Yes, that same person. Emo Doth Vader. Emo Doth Vader,

I mean, he did an OK job in House of Gucci. I was kind of surprised when they made this announcement. Obviously we hinted to this movie was coming out before, but they hadn’t said who was gonna be casted for the movie. Now they’re saying, Adam Driver is gonna play the role of Ator himself, Enzo, and I’m like, oh, I guess I could see it.

He probably wouldn’t have been my first choice, but maybe his weird Italian accent was so spot on in house Gucci then, I’m sorry. Excuse me. So, so, so let’s play. Who would you choose? Who would you choose over? Adam Driver. His name is [00:56:00] Danielo Ricardo . the Australian. Exactly. Yeah. True, true. That would be perfect.

That would be fantastic. He’s not doing anything . I’d have to think about it because Enzo, he looked old when he was young, so you need sort of like this. Kirk Douglas type to like, you know, get in there. He’s like a hundred years old. Literally. I, I’d have to think about that. Like, I don’t think there’s anybody in Hollywood that really kind of looks like Enzo, that is an, a player movie actor or whatever.

So I, I’m sure our fans are probably groaning, Steven Isk going, oh my God, I got like 10 people that I can recommend right now. Maybe we’ll post Nicholas Cage. We’ll post it in our Facebook group and see what people think. Why does it have to be somebody from Hollywood though? I’m so sick and tired. This, this is another, why can’t it be an Italian actor playing an Italian?

Oh, oh my God. Look at that idea. That is groundbreaking right there, Tanya. That that’s what that was gonna be my point. The, the barrier to entry in motor sports is nowhere [00:57:00] near the barrier of entry in Hollywood. I saw an article the other day about all these white people that play all these different kind of ethnicities and these other films and TV shows and stuff, and yeah, why not an Italian actor play an Italian?

How about that? It should be Mike, the situation. Totino. Oh my God. . Oh my God. I thought we were saying Italian actors . He’s about as Italian as you can get. David, you seen him , Jim Tan Ferrari. They could have used the guy for Ford versus Ferrari that played Zo, although he was older. Whatever. They should get Al Pacino to do it.

He plays a good Italian . Who? Sicilian. I’m sorry. . Ient of a woman, man. . But in all seriousness, there is some real news coming outta STIs this month. Yes. Very exciting. If you’re a Jeep fan out there, ducking around, make sure to duck on the new Avenger [00:58:00] Jeep that’s going to be coming out soon. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Lanis made a vehicle called the Avenger years ago. Lantis didn’t Dodge did . . Okay. Alright. Right, so we’re going back to that cause we know the Pedre. It comes with the Avenger. People have put that out of their mind. Oh, that is gone. I’m reminding them to go Google Dodge Avenger right now. 200 horsepower front wheel drive performance.

Just as fast as that Google Page loads. It will be swept through the memory banks as was in the history books. Okay. The Avenger Jeep is going to be a subcompact. The first all electric offering from Jeep is going to be smaller than a renegade. What? So you know what that means, folks? We’re not getting it here.

Piat Panda. Yep. It actually looks really freaking cool. It looks good and it, the pictures of it with like the wide body like. Trail edition or whatever it is. Yeah. In like the [00:59:00] gray look even better. I’m like, Ooh, I like that. I’m getting closer to a Fiat Panda . Yeah. I feel like the new Grand Cherokee should just be a bigger version of this, right?

Because the new one’s ugly. Yeah. Yeah. The new one’s ugly and so does the Wagoneers Hot take, oh God. The, the Craper, that Crowin forehead, that is the front end of the Wagoneers and the Grand Cherokee, and I took a picture, I posted it on social of my Grand Cherokee, wk two and a half next to the new one, and it’s like they couldn’t be any more different.

Like they should have, just like we said, when the Cherokee Nation was coming after STIs to change the name, they should have just changed the name because other than the fact that it wears a Jeep badge, it, it doesn’t work for me. But this new Avenger thing is pretty cool. It’s a sportier renegade. It looks bigger than the Renegade.

It kind of. It reminds me that it should be more like that compass that they came out with the reintroduction of that in that kind of lineage. But if you’re telling me it’s even smaller, then we’re talking like [01:00:00] Fiat 500 L size. It’s slightly smaller. You’re saying it’s a half a foot shorter than the Renegade.

Wow. That’s really small. Then it looks really proportion though. If I was a small European man, I would drive one of these. It looks great. The interior wise, they did a lot of cool things in the spirit of being an outdoorsy type of person in terms of all like the different cubbies and places you can store your gear and whatnot inside it looks pretty functional, looks pretty clean.

I like this metallic Dijon. That’s what I’m gonna call it. It’s cool. That’s a neat color. It, it kind of reminds me of like a, it’s a very eighties color, even almost like late seventies color. It’s kind of nice to see that. Yeah, it looks good on it too. Like you say all the time, Brad, there’s not enough browns and earth tones in cars anymore.

We’re getting the same old black, silver White Navy blue for a time though there was a lot of beige and gray . You could think can thank all the Teda Camrys for that. Well, we need to move on to domestic news, brought to us by american muscle.com, your source for performance, O e [01:01:00] em and replacement parts for your Chevy Ford or Mopar product.

Uh, we got our because Chips excuses again, because Blue Chips, can you believe this one? I, I actually laughed at this. Ford ran out of Blue Oval Badge. So they couldn’t ship cars. Can you imagine getting all the way through production? You don’t have any more Ford badges, so the cars are sitting around. Why aren’t they just putting a sticker up there anyway, , there’s no grill on the maee, right?

Just go on Amazon, buy yourself a $5 sticker. That’s somebody over and. Chenia is printing, and then slap it on the front of your forward f150. But seriously, there’s a lot of Fords that just say Ford like the Raptor. Why don’t, why don’t they just give all the trucks the Raptor grill? Then they don’t need a blue oval.

There’s no blue oval on a raptor on the front. At least any excuse to not sell these cars because nobody’s buying right now. Like economy’s in aos, right? Interest rates are all over the place. We’re on the brink of another recession, inflation, [01:02:00] all this stuff. I mean, I feel like they’re always making cars, hoping people will buy them.

And that goes back to something we talked about before, which is just make them when they’re ordered, especially if I get what I want, you know, if I want triple black and to your point, I want this badge, or I want this hood or that emblem, or whatever it. Bespoke is cool. I’ll wait for it. Maybe I’m in the minority.

People just, they gotta go get a car, they gotta go get a truck. Whatever’s on the lot, purple, pink, yellow or white, they’re gonna buy it. So I feel like Forge just needs to take all the badges off these recalled Broncos and put them on the forge that they can’t sell and maybe they’ll have a product that somebody actually wanna buy.

What’s wrong with the Bronco this time? Uh, the same thing that’s wrong with all of our Mark four Volkswagens, the drive shaft boots, . So the customer satisfaction program, as Ford is calling it, is recalling or asking people to bring in their Broncos purchased or built between September, 2020 and September, 2021 for the drive shaft boot because of poor materials.

By now [01:03:00] you think we would’ve come up with some sort of space age polymer that would keep CV boots from blowing up all the time, but you know, hey, whatever. We keep making ’em cheaper. So, but you know what isn’t cheap and I’m hoping that, you know, if you need one to replace one of these, you can buy this on american muscle.com because have you heard how much it costs to replace the taillights on the brand new Hummer Ev?

It’s not quite like a lotus lease where you gotta replace the entire MoCo. It’s totaled If you get a crack in the, in the claims show, right? Yeah. See it is $6,100 just in parts and probably 35 grand in labor. What ? $6,000 for a tail late. Yeah, that’s a rich people fang. Well the Humer EV is already a rich people fang.

It’s a six. So when you cheat on your wife and she comes after you with a golf club, it’s gonna cost you about 12 grand when she knocks out both your taillights. That said, do you guys remember when we talked about the towing test between the [01:04:00] Ford Lightning and the gas Silverados a couple months ago? A couple Drivethrough.

How could I forget ? It was riveting, you know, the explanation of the A T C trailers and all this kind of stuff. But the point of all that was they came to the same conclusion that we already said, which is towing is a lot more stressful on the vehicles, charging is a problem, unhitching, all that kind of stuff.

So here we go. Another test. Of the Ford Lightning against the Hummer Ev that we were just talking about, both towing toy haulers behind them, pull behind campers. What they were gonna do was leave from Boulder, Colorado and drive basically up to the top of Estes in that general area up into the mountains.

And the idea was, it’s like a s. 75 or 80 mile trip one way. And then if they got to the top and could turn around, they were gonna coast down back to the bottom because there’s an Electrify America station there. So they could recharge and then take the trailers back to their, their original starting point.

So they didn’t hit the checkpoint in [01:05:00] time. So they got a coast to the checkpoint. Red racer style Brad Racer style. Exactly. Exactly. They didn’t have enough fan boost points to it. Did the Hummer do the crab walk while towing? I would’ve liked to seen that though. Cause I think the trailer would’ve been none too happy.

It would’ve been pretty funny. Yeah. Can you imagine this crab walk feature? Like you’re sitting at a red light and the Hummer in front of you. Justin’s crab walk, . I mean, I’ve seen a lot of pickup trucks do the crab walk, but that’s because of Ben Frames, not . That’s the crab walking . I did see a video recently of the hum Ev doing the crab walk at speed now.

I think it cuts out at like 20 miles an hour or something like that. But it was kind of cool to watch it instead of doing the slowmo LeBron James with the animated crabs in the commercial, like somebody who’s actually doing it. I don’t get the 0.4 wheel steering’s been around for a while, so I’m sort of like, okay, I get that too, because that thing’s so big.

Maybe it helps the turning radius, but why crab walk? It’s like cou cabs because they can’t parallel park that thing and they live in the city. And they need a Hummer in the city. Okay. Let’s talk about crab walking because it’s [01:06:00] more interesting than this trailer thing. But the point is, if you want a parallel park, the wheels have to go completely for a particular Yes.

So you’re still moving forward at an angle. Yes. You start early, so you, you still start kind of in the same place you normally would and then you just kind of crab walk sort of back in the No, you don’t, you, you. And what would take you and I pedestrian non four Miller one drivers to, to parallel park in like two moves.

I guarantee there’s gonna be videos on social media, people trying to parallel park with crab walk on, and it’s gonna be like a thousand point back and forth trying to get nothing in there. Speaking of a thousand point back and forth, let’s tangent for a hot second right now because the other day through the neighborhood, swear to God and had I not been so flabbergasted, I should have pulled my phone out and video recorded it.

I had the unfortunate or good fortune to watch this person. I do not know how this pickup truck [01:07:00] got in this position. Okay? But it finished with literally like a 15 point turn to get back in the right direction. They were perpendicular in the road. Front was at the curb, the rear end was perpendicular with a parked car.

They literally did a 15 point turn to get the car pointed forward. And I just sat there and could do nothing. Cause my choice was to back up and do my own three point turn , do another ways. I was captivated and me mesmerized like a train wreck. And I didn’t have the wherewithal to get my phone out. They needed crab walk on this truck.

They could have scooted out from away from this other car. I don’t know how they didn’t hit the other, I think they were hitting it each time.

that’s $6,000 a taillight there. What, what I wanna know is will the Gen two Hummer EV come with a rear seat and steering wheel, like those big ladder firetrucks and you need a second driver to drive the rear [01:08:00] end of it? No, because you make a really good point because with electric motors now, what’s to say that you can’t just jump out and run around to what would be considered the back and then just start driving it forward?

What does the electric motor care, so let’s go. Honey, I need you to get in the back and drive the rear end. So you don’t even have to change directions. You just drive to one end and then you get in the other seat facing the other direction. Drive back home. Exactly. It’s like a, like a what? Like a train

Oh my god. What DHA has blast speeds trains. You know what would make it even better? You put it on a track and then you don’t have to drive it all. It just does it all for you. Then it has autopilot. Getting back to the punchline of this trailering story, there was a point, the point is the lightning got smoked again.

So I guess the point, the moral of the story is don’t plan the trailer with it. Cuz if you bought one, you probably weren’t planning a trailer with it. So it’s okay. But you can power your house. The real test that people aren’t [01:09:00] doing. How many bags of mulch fit in the back and how far can you go? That’s my girl.

That’s the real test. How much shit from Lowe’s or Home Depot can you bring home? Well, we’ve already decided with the Cadillac Black wing xt super turbo charged V8 pickup truck thing. You can’t get anything in the back of it. So that one’s out. That one’s a fail . Why aren’t they doing these tests with the equal eye hammer thrust?

I feel like that would beat the lightning too. Or me a bit more closer. Co comparison. Dude, everything beats the lightning. They camisa did the drag race. With the trailers. It got trashed. It got trashed by the gas Chevy. It gets trashed by the Hummer. Apparently it can charge itself with its own generator.

You know, all this stupid stuff. What is the point? They’re not doing themselves any favors. And what I don’t get and what I said at the beginning was with as much surface area in land mass as that F-150 Lightning. Why doesn’t it have 600 miles of range? Because then when you’re towing, if you get [01:10:00] 300, you’re doing better than the gas equivalent.

I don’t, I I don’t get it. I don’t understand. It’s massive. I saw it on the road. It’s huge. Yeah, I don’t understand. So they put like a nine volt battery in this thing to run it, but it’s still the same size as a regular F-150, I tell you. No, it’s, it’s six double a’s like a, like a Sega Gang gear. It’s a Ryobi.

You gotta take it out and charge it, put it back. This, yeah, you can buy the batteries at Home Depot. It uses the same 18 volts . I’m gonna wait for the 40 volt version of the lightning to come out, you know, and then we can talk about it again. But yeah. So speaking of electric pickup trucks, unfortunately if you’ve recently purchased a rivian, you are falling under, I guess it’s first recall, or I’m not sure if it’s his first recall or second recall.

At any rate, there is a recall due to a inappropriately torqued fastener on the control arm to the steering knuckle that could come loose. That’s not important. No. I mean, steer, I mean, it’s just [01:11:00] steering. It’s fine. There are a bunch of rivian running around down here. Uh, I, I’m finding out as I adventure out more, I saw at least four or five over the weekend.

Well, that’s like, you know, still in the 1% of the ones that they made because the number that they produce isn’t as much as I thought it was. Really? Yeah. It’s only 13,000 cars, but all of ’em are being recalled. Not a huge expense, but it’s still costly. Even if it’s a 50 cent part, multiply that out. Plus I, it’s not even, it’s not even a part.

They literally just need to torque it down. They’re saying it’s like minutes. Why do they even need to have you come in? Why don’t they just give people instructions here, climb under your car, go to this spot. Do a couple, did you just hear what you said? Yeah, I, I, I, I heard it as it was coming out of my mouth.

Okay, . At any rate, just drive through your local Rivian dealer and they, the technician will just reach under, torque it and you’re good to go. Don’t even get outta your truck . If you go back to the old days, the reusable chassis, the skateboard platform, as GM once tried to call it, you know, [01:12:00] there’s a bunch of different concepts now Volkswagen, you know, the MQ chassis and things like that.

Well, there’s an ED platform out there now that’s designed to help low volume manufacturers. I looked at this and I said, this is great. It’s the same idea as the Mercedes Sprinter concept where they will provide you the chassis. It’s ready to go drop in your battery of choice, Samsung, lg, Tesla, or otherwise, and build your car around it.

I think that’s cool, but I also think it perpetuates this entire era that we’re going through where it’s one boutique manufacturer. After the next, I think we need. Distributions of the same flavor and a car company to build the Model T of EVs and be done with this nonsense rich people things. It has to be, I mean, that’s who’s gonna buy these?

They talk about, oh, putting the body of a 3 56 on top of this EV skateboard platform. Okay, who’s gonna afford that? That build must, I don’t even wanna know how much that build costs. Yeah. Finding a 3 56 alone, if you’re starting with a real [01:13:00] one’s, gonna put you back a hundred grand. So, yeah. So I mean, these are gonna be one-off bespoke, rich people buying these.

But that goes back to the conversation of why not just take the actual car and then retrofit the EV power plant into it like they do with EV West and some of these other places. Why would you want to cut a car apart and then graft it to another chassis? To me, it seems like more work. I don’t know, because you gotta rip all that stuff out anyway.

Why not just come up with your own design? Since we’re talking about rest, Omans a scorpion has unveiled the best version of the electric AC cobra, and I would say it looks awesome, but I mean, it looks like a Cobra. Exactly. Like every other factory, five ac, Shelby, you name it, that’s out there, that’s building a COBRA kit car.

So I’m like, okay, so you put an EV in it. Great. It’s still a Cobra. It still has all the Cobra problems. I feel like it shouldn’t be called the Scorpion. That doesn’t have anything to do with snakes. It should probably be like the [01:14:00] puff adder or something like that. The asp, the Ask , it’s the garden snake.

They could have called it the Rattler. That would’ve been cool. The Rattler, the side winder Copperhead. The Anaconda, the python. The boa constrictor. Nope. Scorpion. Scorpion. Maybe There’s a snake called the Scorpion that we don’t know about. They should have called it the honey badger cuz the honey badger eat cobras.

Oh, guess what? There is a scorpion snake. What? This type of snake has a translucent skin that shows it’s red organs and interrupted by black lines. So now I want to see Scorpion’s logo and see if it incorporates the scorpion snake or if it’s a scorpion with the pink. No, that’s why the car looks the way it does.

It’s a silver with the red accents and the black. Now it makes sense. That is so deep. That’s such like an inside, inside joke. Like unless you’re a nerd like Tanya, you wouldn’t know. You go, that’s a cobra. The logo definitely is a scorpion. Scorpion bail at life. Didn’t even [01:15:00] know to look up that there’s a scorpion snake.

Let’s move on. Yeah, so never to disappoint. Speaking of people disappointing us, so Hondo would never disappoint us. And we talked a while back about the Sony vision. They were debuted it at electronics conventions for like the last two years. Well, it is finally getting a release date, so they’re partnering.

No shocker or surprise here. Sony and Honda partnering together to form a brand new company called Sony Honda Mobility. And they are saying that they will begin accepting orders for their joint venture in 2025 with deliveries taking place in 2026. They were gonna be building it stateside in a Honda factory, most likely up in Ohio.

Sony handles all the glitz and glam while Honda builds the car parts. , you lost me at mobility because when I hear that, I immediately think of. Dodge caravans that are modified for wheelchairs. Like what a terrible name for a company like. Like why [01:16:00] would you choose that? Because I don’t know why I immediately just word associate with that, but I don’t know why make another company, just sell it as a Honda by Sony or something like that or whatever, and just sell it at Honda Dealerships who’s gonna service a whole nother dealer network for a whole nother company.

And then that’s part of the thing they’re trying, I think, to say that they’re gonna do like online sales. So are they trying to go like the Tesla route where it’s like you really don’t have a place to go service it, but you’re gonna have to have a place to go service it. So are you bringing it to your local Honda dealer or is there some other special place buried in the woods to bring it?

That’s an interesting point you bring up. You’re also gonna see a shift now if dealer. Are downsizing and they’re going to this just as ordered inventory and online ordering and you see the caranas and all this kinda stuff. You know, making car buying easier and all that. This was not a paid promotion if there’s no dealer to go to.

Does this mean that there’s more opportunity for like your [01:17:00] local pet boys or a Meineke or places like that to step in and now service these vehicles as independent facilities? Or am I kind of off base? I could see where you’re going with that, but they definitely are going to need a lot of substantial training on the new technologies and everything.

I would see doing that and then having everybody go through like a certification process to work on these vehicles. And then as your shop owner, you can say, I’m certified to work on the Sony Honda, you know, whatever EV platform, bring your cars to us. Just like you see nowadays, where the European car specialist or the Italian car specialist, you could do that.

I don’t know if it would happen though, because they would charge for the classes. These mechanics, some of ’em might not be able to afford to go to the classes, so they couldn’t get certified. Johnny BG Good’s gonna be working in his garage working on somebody’s Sony or Honda and he is gonna blow it up.

Well, you know, we talked about that cobra a minute ago. You know who else is going electric? And we mentioned it before that they were hinting that they were not to be [01:18:00] outdone in the most lavish world of automobiles. Rolls Royce has introduced their new EV at the Goodwood Festival, the Specter. Ooh, any guesses how much this thing weighs?

15,000 pounds. Close. 6,559 pounds. That’s British pounds, not American, right? . That is more than my truck weighs. How many stone is that? It alleges 577 horsepower and 664 foot pounds of torque. And with all that power, zero to 60 in 4.4 seconds. It is the same color as the Jeep we just looked at. So now the metallic honey dejan that this Rolls Royce comes in, it’s the appropriate color for this.

This is gray Pon, , excuse me, gray Pon. It’s not bad looking, but it reminds me of the Bentley Continentals. , they’re bringing back the suicide doors. Lots of really interesting things going on here. But [01:19:00] who’s really gonna buy a two-door Rolls Royce Coupe that doesn’t play for the N F L or Manchester United?

The same people that bought the Ghost . The only person who’s gonna buy it is someone with $400,000 M S R P. I don’t think I like it that much. And those lights in the back that are from like a early two thousands Buick Riviera, they just don’t do it for me either. Did you notice the cool interior feature?

It has star lights. Yeah. The same feature that every Rolls Royce has. . Do they really? They’ve been doing that for a while. Yeah. I think it’s like, well, it continues the feature of stargazing through your moon nerve. So maybe it’s my eyes and I need to zoom in on the picture, but did you guys notice that it doesn’t have a brake pedal?

It only has one pedal. Oh no, you can’t see it. It’s there. You need adjust your monitor coloring , adjust your brightness full. So this is a late addition to the EV realm. Oh, but I’ve been seeing a lot of advertisements for the Cadillac Celeste. I did recently see that advertisement all over the [01:20:00] place. It’s the hand-built flagship EV from Cadillac.

What is. Bang spring on the flames. I think it looks really cool. Why? It’s, it’s like a C T S V with the back end of that old seventies Maserati. This looks like that Jaguar hearse from Harold and Maude. Like, this is heinous. What? I think it’s, are you talking about, I think it looks really cool. The freaking brake lights.

No, no, no. You know what, it’s to the D pillar, like all the way to the window. What is this? It’s a, it’s a Citroen. It’s a Citroen. It has to be, it looks so French. Like it it, yes. It’s so bizarre. Like if you told me this was a Citroen cx, I would’ve been Okay, fine. It’s weird. It’s the French blue dude. This.

ugly . I dunno what you’re talking about. It is, it is very, very French looking. Oh my goodness. It’s, it, yeah. It’s probably designed by the same person that designed whatever Citron you just described. Oh my God. [01:21:00] The blue interior. That’s like the seventies all over again, but it’s hand built in Detroit. Oh my God.

It’s built, it’s so terrible. And the back, oh my God. This side shot, like this three quarter side shot. It looks like a Jensen interceptor, like the one that was in Fast and the furious that, uh, what’s her face drove. It’s cool. No, Tanya, get in here, get in here. It it, it, it, she speechless. She loves it so much.

She speechless. It looks good. Head on from the front. What I, I don’t mind it. Head on from the front, from every angle for what Cadillac’s trying to do, but it is particularly bad from the back and the side. It really does look like a CI one cx. Oh wow. I like the look from the, the rear three quarter view.

What. Yes. Slap a V badge on it. Give it a supercharged 6.2 liter v8 and you got my attention full. It does do zero to 60 faster than that. Bentley though. [01:22:00] 3.8 guys talk about it all the time. There’s the crazy hot scale for women. I think there’s the ugly fast scale for cars. Look at it closely and tell me, this wasn’t designed by somebody from A M C.

Well, was it? Is it a m c or is it Citron? Both. They got together. A French American designed this car, . Terrible. Oh my God. Those lights alone. How? No, I’m going to sell everything I own and buy one. Yeah. For 300 grand. Ah-huh. . Yeah. And then I will live in the back of it. Thankfully. It is huge. . Important question is, does it crab luck?

It might be a feature you can add. It is bespoke. Now it’s time to turn to your favorite section. Brad lost and found where you tell us what the cheapest car sold on Briner trailer was this month. Oh, I thought I was doing the oldest brand new cars you can buy. But do we have any more of those? I mean, I thought we ran outta Dodge Darts.

That 1988 Cadillac Deville base is still for sale at Gray Chevrolet. Wow. Brand new 1988 Cadillac Deville. [01:23:00] I have another car for you. Two of them actually. This one is coming soon. A 1999 Nissan Centra. . Oh my God. You can’t make this shit up. I mean, I swear the it writes itself. Yes. Toyota of Hollywood, who has a 2.3 star rating, how much are they selling this?

1999 brand new Nissan Sentra. 13 for the cool price of 6,997. But I am skeptical of it being brand new given that it has door dings and scrapes and it looks like somebody drove it along. A pillar in a parking garage. , you all know what I’m talking about because you’ve seen that car in your neighborhood that does that.

It’s new to you and that’s why they have a 2.3 star rating. It’s new to you, but if that doesn’t tickle your fancy, I have a. Coming soon, [01:24:00] 2004 Toyota Camry XL E for $6,036 at Hanley’s Davis Nissan. That reminds me of that meme that was going around this month where, where it’s like Toyota recalls all 1990s era Camry’s because they’ve been on the road for too long.

owners need to buy something. You can get the 99 Nissan at the Toyota dealer or the 2004 Toyota at the Nissan dealer, . They might wanna do a dx, a dealer exchange. Yeah, they might wanna just go ahead and swap, but if you’ve got rich people doing rich people things, you can still buy a brand new 2005 four GT base for $450,000.

I swear that thing keeps coming down in price every month. So there’s your, uh, car buying news. We’ll just have to wait and see if Santa brings us. Nissan Centra or a T Camry, what would we be remiss if we didn’t talk about, I think Tesla LA News, right? Do we have some couple items? Ooh, I’m excited. They’ve been really [01:25:00] quiet, so Well, you know, they got that whole Twitter thing going on.

You know, I’m trying not to pay for satellites and space, all that kind of thing, but there’s some cyber truck news. Oh, Brad sold his allotment. Nope. Still got it. I’m still waiting for that bucket of chicken , Josh. I will sell it for one 100th of a Bitcoin . Oh, so there was an article saying that Elon Musk says that the cyber trucks can serve briefly as a boat , but how brief is briefly as they’re sinking, it’s considered a boat.

You remember that scene in Pirates of the Caribbean where Captain Jack Sparrow is coming into port and the boat is, it’s still a boat until it’s completely underwater. It’s a boat. So the cyber boat apparently trimbo. The cyber toy boda the cyber trout trout. Apparently Musk says the truck needs to be able to cross the channel between [01:26:00] SpaceX’s star base launch facility and South Padre Island over in southern Texas, which is a distance of about three-tenths of a mile at its shortest point.

So you’re telling me it stays a boat for a quarter mile because it’s taking on water and sinking so it, it sinks for a quarter mile and makes it to the other side and then pulls out? No, it’s apparently waterproof enough to briefly. Constantly in quotes, . Yeah. Always. Allegedly. If you’ve ever seen the door seals on like a Tesla three, you’re telling me that the saber truck is gonna go a quarter mile in the water?

You fill it with foam, you buy at Home Depot. Oh, to fill the gaps. That’s what the wood is for. So keep it afloat. Yes. I love that. It’s water. Enough. That’s not waterproof. That’s water resistant. Maybe making like your watches. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Waterproof means waterproof. I mean, yeah. So [01:27:00] these electric vehicles will get driven in the rain.

They’ll get wet. A lot of these off-road trucks and Jeeps and whatnot. Obviously you wanna be able to furn your rivers, but not really. But it’s like electricity and water. Not so good. Not so good. Like I don’t know that I wanna fully submerge it. This is how you thin the herd , the Darwin Awards. Yes, it should be the cyber truck Darwin edition.

But the truck’s not even out yet. We’re claiming, I don’t whatever T B D on this one. This is like the laser beam windshield wipers and the bulletproof glass. There’s none of it work. You can claim all this because the truck’s not out yet. It can be whatever you want. It can have wings Exactly. Fly. It can use a turbine engine.

They better be sure making claims like that before some person decide. So they’re gonna go test this theory in a lake and then bad things happen. So what have we learned from Tesla owners? Well, and you brought up a great question with the fully autonomous self-driving [01:28:00] Teslas, which they’re not. , if you GPS to some location, is it gonna just be like, oh, duck it, there’s a lake there.

I got this. You’ve put in, you said shortest, shortest route, gonna drive through this lake. So they, they’ve got the options on Google Maps. You can either walk it or you can do bike, or you can drive. Now you can boat it. No, it’s like that episode of the. Where Michael Scott blindly follows the gps and it tells him to turn right and he drives his PT Cruiser into a lake that is what is in store for cyber shark owners.

So in other Tesla news, apparently the support page on the Tesla website has saying that there is a update to Tesla vision and that they will be replacing their ultrasonic sensors with whatever this Tesla vision thing is called. So cameras. . You know what’s funny? You can’t buy or order or put a [01:29:00] deposit on a Tesla cyber truck.

Does that mean yours is not valid anymore? Oh, well, here it is. It’s, it’s buried. It’s five clicks away like a Mercedes. But what I also find is interesting is we have to visit the Tesla website. Like we’re going to a software website. We have to read the release notes to see what the software patch has brought us, whether they’re features, capabilities, or bugs.

I also understand that as they’re changing away from these ultrasonic sensors to cameras, let’s call that use quotations like they did in the Cyber boat article, the quote unquote cameras that the new cars will not have Parks assist. So Parks Assist was too complicated, but autopilot. Yeah, sure, it worked just fine.

But does that change their night vision? Uh, I hope so. I would hope that the vision updates improve its night site, which is. Very lacking and people’s judgments also very lacking. What happened this time? Well, apparently, and you know, maybe some people would be like, well, it’s [01:30:00] only three. Three people dying is still three too many, right?

I don’t know. The statistics on regular people driving at two o’clock in the morning and running over motorcyclists, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Really? Apparently there’s been three incidents in the last 51 days where a person driving Tesla in early morning hours with their autopilot activated have struck a motorcycle or motorcyclist.

They’re hard enough for us to see. That’s why motorcycles are loud. That’s why I’m also not a big fan of EV motorcycles because people don’t pay attention to motorcycles in general. That’s a bad combination there. That’s for. and I often wonder about those autopilot systems just like seeing a pedestrian.

Motorcycles aren’t that large, especially when they’re coming at you. They’re no bigger than a person. And at night we’ve seen what happens with the police cars and all that stuff still work to be done there, which is why I get annoyed when they keep claiming that they’re fully self-driving. Cuz if they’re fully self-driving, they wouldn’t be rear-ending a motorcyclist.

Yeah. No matter the time of day. [01:31:00] And the interesting thing is that some of those break tests and you’ve got these crazy people that have been like, oh, Tule is so great. They’re automatic breaking up. There’s people that have done this. I’m literally gonna like drive directly into my child. I’m gonna stand my child in the street.

Oh. I’m like drive my car at them. People have been doing this. And then I’m gonna like let the car stop. See, I didn’t hit my. it works. But then they’re like, but I wouldn’t drive the car above like a certain speed cuz you know, just in case , that’s not how something that works Fully automatedly, no. To go 60 miles an hour at your child and trust that the car is gonna stop.

I wouldn’t take that bet. You’re an idiot. And I think there’s been some tests where people have not used children, but use dummies and whatnot and then like the cameras have gotten confused where the car will be slowing down. But then it’s gotten so close to the object that it doesn’t see the object anymore and it thinks the object’s gone and it accelerates and it drives into the object because somehow it didn’t realize that it was still there.

There’s no camera on the earth that can replace [01:32:00] the human eye in terms of especially judging distance and speed and all that kind of stuff. I mean, cameras are getting smaller, they’re getting more sophisticated, but in reality it’s just way too complicated. People want the Johnny Cab, but it’s gonna take a long time before we get there, before we can really trust the technology.

And part of it is, I don’t think we can trust the technology that exists today. The technology that’s gonna make this work doesn’t exist. I don’t like it when the manufacturers are testing it on the public because then you’re stuck with a feature that doesn’t work. It sours the brand. Do it on a test card, do it on a test meal, do proper testing, but to release this to the public and then just, let’s see what happens.

You know, beta test it with in the wild? Nah, not so much. I mean that is a software. Design paradigm, if you will. Tesla, I’ve always said, is a software company, not a car manufacturer. So it doesn’t surprise me in the least that that’s the way they’re doing this. But I will say now that my expectations are fully lowered, lowered expectation, [01:33:00] we have lowered his expectations thoroughly and he’s ready to have them lowered even further.

So apparently California is going to make it harder to sell stolen, catalytic converters. How? That’s a great question. How indeed, probably by mandating the sale of electric vehicles, which don’t require catalytic converters, but don’t bump, they plan on passing legislation to prevent private individuals and recyclers from being able to purchase any used Cadillac converters from someone who is not authorized to do so.

So, uh, a repair dealer or unauthorized automobile, dismantler with proper paperwork, et cetera, et cetera. And if you aren’t authorized, then you would be fined. Okay. And then I think there’s another legislation that they’re trying to pass, which is all bookkeeping or recordkeeping, if you will, where they’re gonna try to keep tabs on your catalytic converter.

Good luck. I love how like the third or fourth paragraph in this thing says, [01:34:00] California has the highest number of catalytic converter thefts. No, they don’t. It’s people chopping ’em off and throwing ’em away and straight piping their cars. . I mean, the car culture in California is so all over the map. I mean, reading stuff like this just blows my mind sometimes.

This wouldn’t be that big of a deal if catalytic converters weren’t mandated for like that silly emissions testing. You know what? They’d also, it wouldn’t be a big deal if they were also effective. They’re very effective at making really bad smells when they go bad. I talked to somebody else in a previous episode and they reminded us that basically catalytic converters, for them to be effective, you need to be on the road for almost an hour.

So for our short little commutes of 5, 6, 12 miles, you’re not even getting the thing up to a proper operating temperature for the catalytic or inverter to be effective. So to your point, they’re spraying out all sorts of. Stuff, you know, sulfur and whatever out of there, and it’s just they don’t work. Okay.

It’s fine if you’re sitting in traffic for a [01:35:00] long time. Yes, they’re there to reduce smog and this, that, and the other thing. But again, they need to be hot. If you’re not moving the car’s, actually the exhaust gas temperatures are pretty low. So again, the catalytic converter is not effective in reality. I don’t wanna get into a whole science lesson about it.

People are probably groaning. Oh, you know what the hell you’re talking about. But the reality is there’s an effective operating temperature for everything, and a lot of these vehicles never reach it. You can steal mine. I’ll put a straight pipe in . That’s okay. But you know what else is going away? And this is a thank you moment.

Facebook doesn’t always do everything right. You know, we all have gripes, we have compliance. Yeah. We move away. We find the next best thing. I don’t know what’s replaced TikTok at this point. I’m sure there’s something else. But Facebook marketplace is going to begin banning. The sales of cars in 2023.

What? Cool. Good. I’m glad. Why? So they all going to Craigslist, . We all know what Craigslist is for. It’s not for selling cars. Facebook marketplace is a great place for a lot of [01:36:00] really good jokes. Facebook marketplace is hot trash. Like if you wanna legitimately sell a car, put it on Autotrader racing junk cars.com.

You can list and put up your pictures. I mean, when was the last time you listed a car? I never sell a cars. They just come here to die. . Okay, Daniel, didn’t you sell that Passat? How did you sell that Facebook marketplace? . Exactly. So let’s just, just scratch this entire story. . Yeah, but it was a tragic story.

Hypocrites, Ritz . I hate this tool I’ve used before. It was a terrible experience though, and I would never do it again. That’s selling a used card in general. Yeah, exactly. I I should have scrapped it rather than sell it. It’s freaking nightmare. Some cool news. You know, we talked this month to Johann Schwartz, who’s the Guinness World record holder for the longest drift in a bmw.

Eight hours over 200 miles, I believe with mid drift refueling to boot. Well, there’s another Guinness World Record. The fastest [01:37:00] lawnmower. How fast that lawnmower going? It does zero to 100 miles an hour. In 6.285 seconds. Verify, wait, wait. Hold, hold on, hold, hold, hold, hold on. Who is cutting their lawn at a hundred miles an hour?

Tim Taylor, Tim, the tool man cuts his lawn at a hundred miles an hour. I literally just watched that episode, right after she watched the Golden. Now, it didn’t say how long it takes for that thing to stop, but that’s how fast it goes. But I will say this, you watched the video. It is wicked. It sounds like Verin is driving this thing.

I mean, it sounds like a Honda Formula car. It’s epic. I gotta say that. Zero to a hundred time doesn’t mean shit. I want to see the Nurburg ring lap times. Yeah. At Pikes Peak it’s gotta do Pikes Peak and the Nurburg. . I wanna say there was a miss here because they were, I don’t know where they were. Some sort of drag [01:38:00] strip or something.

I don’t know. They should have been doing this in a field. I wanna see the lawnmower mowing the lawn? Yes. Practical test with blades hitting grass at a hundred miles an hour. Yes. What are you talking about? It has D O t slicks and launch control. This is the best lawnmower. It’s off-Roading capability is 10 out of 10.

The best lawnmower is a lawnmower that can mow the lawn. . This is not , but all jokes aside, big shout out to Jess Hawkins. She’s a stunt driver, car driver, car racer, all the above following Instagram. She was the driver of the lawnmower when they broke the record, so congratulations to her. We just put lawnmower and air quotes from now on.

Then it makes it okay, right? Tesla does it with the cyber boat, right? It’s got quote, autopilot and quote, build quality. How many quotes on the Tesla website? That’s what I [01:39:00] wanna know. It’s quote tesla unquote.com. . We talked about French cars earlier. We talked about CIS earlier, and you know, my love of certain cis, but they really do push the envelope on weird.

Like, you know, Reno does some weird stuff. Puero does some weird, weird stuff, but when you really wanna take it to the next level, you gotta go with the CI in because they’ve decided they’re gonna come out with an ev, which is made from recycled cardboard as a top speed of 68 miles an hour. Do you think this quote, briefly quote, Floats

Have you ever seen cardboard get wet? My point, . The other thing is the fire department wouldn’t have that long Wait, for the fire to like just consume It. Looks like that Cadillac we talked about earlier. No. You know what it looks like? It looks like a little Lego car. Yeah. Yeah. And I can’t hate it for that.

And now I [01:40:00] wish it was made out Legos. If this was a Lego, I would buy. Cardboard. I mean, it’s a concept car. They did something fun and quirky and completely unnecessary, but no fun and quirky. My left foot, this is ci and they did something very normal . His, the production line in 2025. I mean, I What mini did their whole quirk?

Uh, interior as well. There was the vegan Volvo. I mean, come on. They’re all, yeah, they’re all trying new stuff and that’s fine. I get it. But cardboard really, I mean maybe they’ll find a way to use the cardboard in a safe way that doesn’t disintegrate or combust very easily. Wait, did, did you say the cardboard came from Safeway?

Yeah. This is like in a safe way. Like is this like the part , what’s going on? Well, to round out just weird stuff altogether. Have you guys heard of the the deliver? No. Is that the Domino’s delivery car? It’s the yo, no, it sort of looks like a oid autotech [01:41:00] breakthrough.com uh, website I never heard of before announced that the deliver had been named Evie of the Year.

And when you look at this thing, you would think that that dude that was building the Reliant Robin DeLorean things and like Latvia made this thing. Cuz it is just, Bizarre. My interest is lost when I’ve scrolled for like five minutes here and I still don’t see a picture of it. So you have to watch the YouTube video.

I’ll screw that Click bait. What? That’s not what I was expecting. What the fuck? It’s uh, literally a delivery vehicle. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If you go to their website, it’s literally de it’s, it looks like that, that other car, I used the term car loosely, but that other one, that’s a three wheel vehicle. Just like this that was trying to, yeah, the ope, the Italian one that’s been around since like, you know, the 19 hundreds.

So , which is a Vespa, like a cap on it? No, it was like Helio or something like that. Either way, it looks like a single seat helicopter without the prop. The best I can [01:42:00] describe it, but it’s got wheels. Again, I don’t know what this website is or whatever, but they named the deliver. The EV of the year, outdoing the Ion, EQ five and all these other vehicles that we talked about.

This year, it looks like we need to rejoin our friends from the Blue Oyster Cult. You know what? Not to disappoint, but there is not a purely floor demand. This time we’re gonna give them a little break. We’ve had some troubling past few weeks with the whole hurricane thing and being flooded out. So, you know, it’s been quiet.

We should have gotten cyber trucks to come as FEMA vehicles to help them out because we’ve realized they could be used as boats. Now, briefly, oh, if only there were any being produced, a hundred Doge. We’ll get you there. But you know, you can take the man out of Florida, but you can’t take the Florida out of the man.

So there’s still some interesting news out across the states. So back to our friends in California, maybe it’s a first, probably not, but the police over there in Whittier, California. [01:43:00] Maiden, R U I A. What? A riding under the influence arrest someone was. Riding their horse under the influence of Whippets alcohol and under California vehicle code, it states that people riding an animal on state roadways are subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle.

So wait, you’re telling me that a horse is a vehicle according to California Vehicle Code? Whenever we talk about California, I feel like I’m watching Portlandia. Oh my God. These people are just, we joke about people in Texas or in their own world. People in California are in their own world as well. This person was galloping through traffic.

They refuse to pull their horse over. So, I wanna know then, if a horse is considered a vehicle, are you allowed to lane split in traffic? While on a horse, you can always lane split if you don’t get caught. Lane splitting is legal in California. It’s the only state it is. [01:44:00] I think I’ve started to wonder if it’s legal in Maryland too, cuz I’ve been seeing more and more people do that and it’s freaking me out.

It is not. I didn’t think so. , it is not legal in Maryland, nor will it ever be. I don’t think. Good, but it shouldn’t be. It’s quite stupid. Jumping it. We’re gonna go back and forth across the coast. All right, now we’re going east coast, close to East Coast, Pennsylvania. She’s space coast. Coast to coast.

That’s her Halloween outfit. Where in the world is Carmens San Diego? Where in the world is Florida? Man? So Florida man popped up in a front of township in Pennsylvania around 2:30 PM as he was filling his car with the gas at the gas station. Got a little bit hot, decided to strip down naked while he was pumping, and then decided that the freezer box where they sell the bags of ice was an appropriate place to enter naked.

In the ice chest. He got in the ice chest, he was hot. You know when [01:45:00] guys in the wintertime, and we say this all the time, I’m freezing my balls off . He was actually doing it. He literally, I wonder if our friend of the show who is a judge now in Pennsylvania is going to try this case and if so, we’d like to get more details from said person.

Ah, no, cross back over. To Oregon, and I have a new respect for these Oregonians. And if you remember from last month, the Missouri guy, senator fella, he paddled his great pumpkin. That’s right. Guin us record. Possibly. Well little did I know that there is a giant pumpkin regatta race. No. That happens in Oregon.

And you have multiple people en carved out pumpkins. Haggling. In a race? No, in Oregon. Yeah. What is wrong? And these people dress up. It’s glorious. It’s a lemons race. It’s a pumpkins race. I’m kind of disappointed nobody had a Charlie Brown [01:46:00] costume on, but it’s fine. Little did you know Brad is here. Look for find Brad.

The pictures go, wait, wait, wait. What? I see. Oh, it’s right before Waldo in the unicorn pajamas. Yeah. too. Brad, why didn’t you film this for us? You could. You could’ve been live on site. I see that Andrew is there too, with his, uh, Randy Savage glasses. Sinking. Sinking. He must have had the same bill quality as the cyber truck.

True. He, he was briefly boating there in his pumpkin. It’s called sinking slowly. When did you go to Oregon? That’s brilliant. How do you know that? I didn’t. That was me there, but yes. So that’s fantastic. Way to go. I’d love to see that spectacle. First thing, . I would do it. I just don’t, I don’t wanna deal with the pumpkins.

Now I wanna watch. I don’t wanna be in the pumpkin. Yeah, I just wanna watch, we’ll round out these last two with a little bit of Halloween funds since it is Halloween. So New Jersey 1 0 1 0.5. Your source score. The creepiest Halloween car in New Jersey and it [01:47:00] belongs to a guy in Somerset. This thing is, so apparently there’s a dude wild running around in New Jersey.

Striking fear in eighties children’s. Nightmare land with Mike Myers and Chucky and Freddy and like all the baddies in the horror films from that era. He’s got those dummies in his Highlander rav4 or whatever that is at riding along his passengers. I guess he’s getting to the h o V lanes. He’s, he’s even dragging like a body underneath the car on the driver’s side.

He. Cicadas, cicadas. . I really like the nun in the trunk like that is, that’s, that’s sick. That’s really cool. That’s from the movie. The Conjuring the second movie. That’s creepy Af is what that is. Terrifies the hell. I I’m okay with all the other characters, but that none is freaking creepy. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta watch the Conjuring too.

[01:48:00] Yeah, I don’t, I don’t need to. I’m good. So the last one here in theme with the haunted drive-through Orlando experience, which I believe there’s even, there’s more of those have popped up. I didn’t realize that haunted car washes are a thing. . How does that even work? The video’s quite good. If you find yourself in Indiana, you can go to the Fisher’s car wash, prime car wash off I 69 at 13 8 0 1 Olivia Way.

And, uh, get possessed by some employees there as you, you know, drive through. It’s $20 per car. You get a car wash at the end. So you get haunted, but you do get your car cleaned and they’re donating 30% of those proceeds to the American Legion to support veterans. So it’s for a good cause. Basically they did like colors through the water to make it look.

I, I didn’t understand if like, so you’re, you’re wetting my car with dyed water. How’s that cleaning It . So that’s why, that’s why they have to wash it again. So what happens when you, somebody has like a code brown moment. Do they clean the inside too? They said that if it gets too scary for [01:49:00] you at any point in time you put your flashers on and everyone knows to leave you alone and you can just proceed through the car wash.

How big is this car wash? I don’t envision it being more than maybe one or two cars long. I don’t know. But I think they started it like out into the parking lot too, with some of the festivities. What I really didn’t like is in the video, and it might just have been promotional reasons, but they showed like the zombie person like banging on the glass of the car and No, you don’t touch my car.

She’s like, no, no, no. Just like you don’t touch me if I’m walking through a haunted house, you don’t touch my car as it’s driving through your haunted washer thing. It reminds me of this story. When I got kicked out of Six Flags, I was with a group of people and we went, it was the Halloween whatever Fright Fest.

We, yeah, it was Fright Fest and we were going through one of the many haunted houses that they had on site. One of the workers bumped into someone I was with, so I kind of threw ’em to the [01:50:00] ground and . I didn’t think anything of it until we got out of the exhibit. Security was waiting for us to throw me out.

Whoops. Yeah. Whoops here. So don’t touch my car and don’t touch my friends that you get the horns, you mess with the Viking, you get the horn. Well, it’s time we go behind the pit wall for our remaining motor sports news, and this month we actually have some NASCAR news. Yeah, so there was some interesting, you know, as the wheel turns drama on soap opera known as nascar, Kyle Larson pinched off Bubba Wallace.

Bubba Wallace ended up tapping the wall that tapped him into Kyle. Kyle went down toward the infield. Then all of a sudden you see Bubba’s car shooting like a missile heat seeking slams into Kyle’s car, causes like a ricochet, inadvertently hitting somebody else who had nothing to do with this whole kerfuffle thing who was basically like in points contention for something or other.

So they screwed him up and then Melba gets out of his car. They’re [01:51:00] both fine, everyone’s fine, nobody got hurt. They gets out of his car and then proceeds to calmly walk a long distance to Kyle and then begin shoving him in a very cat-like way . Kyle was having none of that. We didn’t really push back too much or anything like that.

Yeah, so Bubba was really pissed cuz he got hit. , which he didn’t get hit. He just got pinched off and, and hit the wall a little bit. Had he just kept going. He could have kept driving, but of course he claimed that, you know, hitting the wall, damaged the steering and he couldn’t steer. And so that’s why his car went like accelerated heat-seeking like Forza Yeah.

Down the track. Exactly. Mag magnets in, uh, activated and just boom into the back of Kyle and wrecked him out for good cause Kyle also could have kept going had he not been crashed out at the bottom of the infield. So that’s your NASCAR drama. Did they all forget over on w e I mean NASCAR that Robin is racing?

Well see that’s what I thought. Wasn’t a little bit, a little bit of ru rub that wall. Get some paint off, keep going. [01:52:00] Exactly right. We’re all about trade and paint. But also Bubba Wallace was handed a suspension for one race and that triggered me to go, wait, so now NASCAR’s sort of like world wrestling.

And the N F L I didn’t know drivers could get suspended. You know, obviously a couple videos and coverage from the event was covering it live, uh, as it was happening. But the first I saw, I hadn’t seen the car incident. I just seen them at the bottom of the track of him getting out. I literally thought I was watching like wwe.

I was like, wow, this is, I haven’t seen NASCAR in a while. This is different . Somebody’s gonna get a folding chair and they’re gonna start hitting each other, you know? That’s how it goes. Yeah. Brilliant. I, I hate to say NASCAR is really hard for me to watch on television. I don’t mind it live, like when you’re going with friends and you’d watch the race, it’s just the whole atmosphere.

But to watch it on tv, you, I, there’s other things I’d rather do, honestly, so I missed it all. But watching the recap, I’m like, what the heck is going on over there? I mean, that was un sportsman like, oh, a hundred percent. He deserved something. I mean, that’s not right. He, I mean, you could have [01:53:00] seriously injured somebody.

Well, you know, in the more, in the more refined in the great pon of racing. Yeah. In the more refined world of sports, car racing. We talked earlier about the BMW and its massive front grills, , allowing air into the radiators and capturing small children, animals and Porsches along the way. Cadillac isn’t waiting until 2024 or whatever.

They have already teased, shown us a release of their new Cadillac, L M D H car. They have announced they are targeting, not one, not two, but three. LM D h Cadillacs for the 2023 Lamont’s, 24 hours. I mean the field of cars is going to be massive. Three Cadillacs alone is awesome. They’ve also announced who the team members are going to be, the drivers, so they’re gonna have Sebastian Bordea, they’re gonna have Ringer, Vander, PIP Pippo, Dani Alexander [01:54:00] Sims.

They’ll all be majors on the team running those Cadillacs at 2023. I’m really excited to see them on the big stage. We just went through petite, where they sunset the D P I cars, so there is no more Cadillac prototype. This is the one that’s replacing it. They did reveal the Cadillac prototype at Petite Lamonts and that was cool to see even from afar.

I wish I was there to see it in person, but I’m really excited again for the hundredth anniversary of Lamonts. It’s gonna be awesome to see all these cars on the big stage. Cadillac needs to cancel production on the Sadique and the lyric or whatever other BS they’re making. Yeah. And sell this car. Yes.

This Cadillac looks stunning. I would drive stellar it amazing. It’s, it’s amazing. Meanwhile, in the other organization, SRO World Challenge has revealed their 2023 schedule early. There are still 14 races at seven locations in the 2023 calendar. There’s not gonna be a race at Watkins Glen next year. They put Nola and Circuit of Americas [01:55:00] in place of two other races.

The schedule plays out as Sonoma Nola, Koda, v I r, road America, Seabring and Indie Motor Speedway closing out the year. So they got rid of St. Petersburg, they got rid of Watkins Glen. Kind of changing things around. Fortunately, I don’t know that I’m gonna make V I R because I’ll be at Lamonts. So you know, if I had to pick between V I R and Lamonts and I don’t know, it’s gonna be a tough call, but there’s other exciting news coming out of SRO World Challenge and that.

That the C H R GT three is coming in 2024. They’re already testing it. They’re doing balance of power to bring the new Corvette into World Challenge to compete with the offerings from Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, and so on down the Line. S Rro World Challenge really shaping up to be a great series here in the next couple of years as they bring more cars online and we already know the new Hondas are here.

They’re bringing other vehicles and makes into touring car and things like that. There’s a really nice evolution happening. So if you’re not [01:56:00] into World Challenge, definitely check it out. And their coverage on YouTube even during the race and after is absolutely fantastic. I’m looking forward to it. I can’t wait.

And unlike Eric, I might be at the b I R race because I will not be going to LA mom that I know of as of right now. Well, we have some other racing news or as we know, there’s always our crazy Ozzy friends. They like to send it and then some. So there’s the annual Bathos 1000 and the Annual Best of Bathhurst Crash Videos comes along with that.

We have that linked in our show notes if you wanna check it out. One of our members sends it to us every year. It is a spectacle for sure. And again, the coverage of the race, V8 supercars, amazing stuff you can always go back and watch on YouTube. But the best of is a great way to get to the exciting bits of the Bath Firsts 1000.

Also coming out today on October 20th, if you’ve got H B O Max, there’s a new documentary called Fastest Woman on Earth and is telling the story of Jesse Combs, who unfortunately died in [01:57:00] 2019 trying to break the land speed record of like 512 miles an hour or something like that. This documentary was actually years in the making before her death, so, um, there’s probably gonna be a lot of interesting information on her journey and in her unfortunate passing that was sad, very sad.

I used to watch her on the extreme four by four during the, uh, the power block on Motor Trend. Well now we gotta switch to local news, upcoming local news and events brought to us by collector car guide.net, the ultimate reference for car enthusiasts. Brad, before you get into what’s coming up in November, I just wanted to do a quick recap and shout out of the Antique Auto Club of America’s Hershey National.

This was the first big get together since Covid. They did some other ones, uh, in the last couple of years, but this was my first time at the Hershey Nationals. They had to shut down the park, obviously to the public. They used every square inch of parking lots, overflow roads, grass areas for parking. It was insane.

Allegedly. I’m gonna use air quotes like from earlier [01:58:00] if you. Every row of every table, of every booth, of every corner, of every lot. It’s almost an entire marathon, 26 miles of walking. And that’s how many different vendors there are out there with all their parts. There was also an auction hosted by RM Sotheby’s and one of our, uh, friends of the show, Alan was actually selling off one of his Packards, which was pretty cool.

And we also had our sponsor appreciation and fan happy hour event. We had over 40 people turn out to that. We had some guests of the show that had been on and their episodes are still yet to air. They’re at the happy hour with us. It was a great event, it was a great time. Met a lot of new friends, old friends, and the food was awesome too.

So big shout out to the Tattered flag and Hershey for hosting us and we look forward to doing something like this again in the future. So if you’re ever interested in joining us, take a look at our calendar or give us a shout on our Facebook group to see where we’re gonna be at next. Speaking of calendar, so let’s see what’s coming up for November.

Race car swap meet at Carlisle on November the fifth. You’ll probably be seeing Mountain Man Dan there. And did you know [01:59:00] that W D C R S C A has been running a cart league race? Number four is at United Carting on November 6th, as well as the 14th annual Veterans Appreciation car and Truck. And we have the 32nd annual Hanover Street Rods toys for Todd’s Drive on November 13th.

And tons more events like this and all their details are available over@collectorcarguide.net. That’s right. And if you wanna get your event listed and promoted, be sure to hop over there as well. You can do that for free. There’s a self-service portal where you can set all that up and it’ll go on the calendar and we might read your event here on the drive-through.

It’s also a time for us to do the H P D E junkie Trackside report. Now in our area, the track season is winding down, but there are still tons, if not, I should say, hundreds of events across the country that you can still partake in, in the areas of the country where they just don’t have any seasons or change in the season.

But there is some big news. Coming to N J M P, New Jersey Motorsports Park in 2023, [02:00:00] Thunderbolt, my personal favorite, is undergoing a repaid and expansion. They’re adding what looks like four different optional configurations to Thunderbolt, some of which will cut out the famed octopus. Some add a SHA coming out of turn one in the turn one, two area of the track.

And again, they’re offering different combinations to kind of mix things up and make the racing on the Thunderbolt circuit more interesting. So I’m curious to run it the way it is. I like the configuration the way it is, but we all know that when a track is repaved, there’s a time of adjustment as it settles in, and then the lap times suddenly change.

So I guess we’re gonna have to update our leaderboard as to N J M P, PREPA and Post Repave. So looking forward to those new lap times and those new records. That said, the annual helmets off to heroes, better known to many of us around here as hath is happening again under the control of S E C A W D C R region.

And it’s gonna be held at Summit Point on November the [02:01:00] sixth. There is no fee for this event if you’re in time to register. If you are a veteran or active duty service member, this is a high performance driver’s clinic. The day is split up between exercises in the beginning and then instructed track time in the afternoon.

So the idea is to get you out there, get you comfortable, get you to wet your whistle a little bit and see if you’re interested in the world or high performance drivers’ education. So hth or helmets off to Heroes is a great way to kick that off, and it’s a great way to celebrate Veterans Day. Audi Club.

Potomac Chesapeake region returns to V I r November the fifth and sixth. As we all know here at the halls of G T M, this has been a fantastic event. Despite the variable weather at V I R. There are some of us from the club side of the house going to v I R in November. Not all of us can make it this year, but we hope to return and celebrate our fall finale with Yadi Club next year.

Yay, . So if you’re looking for something to do in early November that pretty much that event kind of closes the door on the DC area and the track season, [02:02:00] unless you continue to go south and if you are looking to go south, H O D’S Southeast region has added. Two more events to their schedule. They’re holding an event at Atlanta Motorsports Park on November the sixth, as well as a Turkey bowl reminiscent of what S E C A does at Summit Point.

They’re gonna be holding their version of the Turkey Bowl at Robling Road on November the 21st. Our guests of the show, NABI owner of Just track it down South, is going to be hosting a toys for to. Toy Drive, as well as H P D E event at Barber Motorsports Park on November the 19th and 20th. So if you’re looking for some warmer events, those are three that you should be adding to your calendar for sure.

In addition to that, I will be at the I M rrc, the International Motor Racing Research Center, up in Watkins Glen for their annual symposium. This is the first one since Covid. It will actually be held at the Watkins Glen and Media Center on November the fourth and fifth. Please stop by for a [02:03:00] chat or sign up to be on the show and will be live streaming this event on the Gran Touring Motorsports Twitch.

So that’s twitch.tv/Gran Touring motorsports. So if you wanna hear from Hall of Famers, NASCAR folks, other people in the industry, it’s a two day symposium and we’ll be live streaming All that for you guys to check out. If you can’t come up to the Glen, in case you missed out, check out the other podcast episodes that aired this month.

October was jam packed. We kicked off with a girl’s guide to cars featuring drive-through. Number 26. Guest hosts Sarah Lacey, who explains the unique perspective of car buying for ladies. Next. We devoted an entire week to late model racing with Mike Gallagher and Kobe Tims from Late Model Mafia, a guided tour of the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing with 10 time jerk track champion Lynn Paxton and E I L F M Crossover with Stephen Izzy, where we reviewed Mountain Man.

Dan’s new favorite movie Trading Paint, starring John Travolta and Shania Twain. We chatted with one of the hardest working teams in S R O World [02:04:00] Challenge, Todd Brown and Johann Schwartz from Rooster Hall Racing, and we also dove deep into Johann’s World records for longest drift and fastest laps. Along with other great paddock stories, Mark Green returns with the Boomerang crossover episode when he joins Brad and Eric to share the origin behind Cars.

Yeah, a five day a week podcast featuring inspiring automotive enthusiasts that topples over 2000 published episodes for you to catch up on. Both Brad and Eric’s interviews are also available for you to review courtesy of Mark making a three part miniseries. a bonus episode drops two days from this episode, rounding out October, where we chat with Johnny Ransom from GAA Classic Car Auctions and learn more about why you should not only attend the vehicle auction, but sell your car at one important details on their November event are also available in this episode.

If you want to learn more about pre-released and bonus episodes, be sure to check out our new Facebook group for Break Fix, where you can get exclusive early access to episodes and more as they drop. By the way, folks, this is the last [02:05:00] official drive-through for 2022. Next month will be the showcase of our holiday shopping guide, and December brings our best of episode.

We’ll catch up with all the interesting news starting again in January. Thank you to all the guests that came on the show this month. We have some really exciting episodes lined up for the rest of season three. And don’t forget, this season ends at the end of February right before the racing season kicks off.

We will be back for season four and lots more drive through news. Tons of episodes still to come. So stay tuned throughout those holiday months. Well, we don’t have any new Patreons for October. There’s some whispers, there’s some hints. There’s people saying, where can we send you money? How can we help you?

It’s always the same folks, patreon.com/gt motorsports. So if you’re getting into that season of giving, think about helping us out a little bit. You know, keeps the lights on, there are expenses to running these shows, running all the websites, all that kind of stuff. Every little bit goes a long way to help us continue to deliver quality content every week.

You know, we are on an aggressive schedule. We put [02:06:00] out what, 60 some odd episodes, uh, this year. So it’s, it’s just craziness and more great stuff to come. So we appreciate anything and everything, and thank you again to everyone that has supported us to this point. And even though we don’t have any Patreons, we do have some other shoutouts, some anniversaries.

Doug Turner and Ben Scherer are celebrating seven years with G T M while Chris Wake clocks in at four years. And Mike Ruber and Nate Burton from our Hot Hatch Volvo episode two years. And finally, Greg Bell celebrating his first anniversary as a GTM Club member. If you’d like to become a member of gtm, be sure to check out the new clubhouse website at club Do gt motorsports.org to learn more.

Special thanks to guest, host, no one. Thank you for coming on. And of course, our co-host and executive producer Tanya, thank you so much for putting together such a wonderful show. I love these drive-throughs. We are so well prepared, and it’s all thanks to you , because as Tanya. Never more prepared than when you’re not prepared.

That’s right. So remember folks, [02:07:00] for everything we talked about on this episode and more, be sure to check out the follow on article that a accompanies this on gt motorsports.org and to all the members, families and friends who support us week after week after week. As Brad likes to say, without you, none of this would be possible, but we’d still be doing it because we’re stubborn.

Yes. You could use the word We’re dumb. Yeah, we’re stubborn. Da da da.

Well, here we are in the drive through line, me and her in front of us cars, in back of us all just waiting to order. There’s a idiot, a Volvo with us. Bright son behind me. Hi Leanna. The window and scream. Hey, watch you Trying to do blind Me. My wife says Maybe we should park.

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on [02:08:00] www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call our Texas at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.

We’d love to hear. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at [02:09:00] www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.


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Matchbox Dreams to Podcasting Legends: Mark Greene’s Journey Through the Automotive World

What happens when a five-year-old boy falls in love with a tiny red Jaguar XKE Matchbox car? If you’re Mark Greene, it sparks a lifelong obsession with automobiles that eventually blossoms into a career spanning design, racing, and podcasting. In this special crossover episode of Break/Fix, we sit down with the founder and host of the Cars Yeah! podcast to explore the winding road that led him from La Jolla beach days to becoming one of the most prolific voices in automotive storytelling.

Photo courtesy Mark Greene, Cars Yeah!

Mark’s automotive journey began in Southern California, where his architect father brought home a 1949 MG TC. For a young boy used to riding in a Pontiac “lemon,” the MG was a revelation – a toy-like, right-hand-drive sports car with a banjo steering wheel and Jaeger gauges. Mark would sit beside his dad with a spare wheel in hand, pretending to drive and delighting passersby.

That MG sparked a cascade of car-centric experiences: Matchbox collections, model building, go-karts, and eventually motorcycles and cars. A neighbor’s Porsche Speedster and a community filled with doctors and lawyers who owned Jaguars, Alfas, and Miuras only deepened his fascination. Even a junior high birthday party was derailed when Mark spent the entire time in the garage with the host’s father, prepping a Speedster for a concours event.

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Mark’s dual degrees in business and design laid the foundation for his early career in graphic design. A chance encounter with the first Griot’s Garage catalog led to a persistent campaign to redesign it. Eventually, Mark joined the company full-time, helping build the brand from the ground up. Over two decades, he wore countless hats – designing catalogs, sourcing products globally, and shaping the company’s identity.

He even helped design Griot’s corporate headquarters in a former Coca-Cola bottling plant, blending his design sensibilities with his passion for cars. Though he didn’t create the now-iconic Griot’s logo, he remains convinced it’s based on a Jaguar XK120 – despite founder Richard Griot’s insistence otherwise.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This episode of the Break/Fix podcast features an in-depth interview with Mark Greene, the founder, producer, and host of the Cars Yeah! podcast. Mark discusses his extensive career in the automotive world, starting from his early passion for cars influenced by his father, detailing his significant role at Griot’s Garage, and eventually launching Cars Yeah!, a five-day-a-week podcast dedicated to inspiring automotive enthusiasts. Mark shares personal stories, including his racing experiences, his love for motorcycles, and a deep dive into his most cherished car, a Porsche 930 Turbo known as the ‘Orange Crush.’ He also offers insights into his life philosophy, such as the importance of helping others, the value of experiencing life over accumulating things, and words of wisdom for aspiring podcasters. The episode concludes with a heartfelt Q&A where Mark emphasizes the importance of time and pursuing one’s passion.

  • Let’s talk about the who/what/where/when and how of Mark Greene, the petrol-head. How did you get your start in the automotive world? Did you come from a car family? Racing family? What were some of the cars that influenced you as a child (aka “the poster on the wall car”)
  • You mentioned racing a few times, let’s talk about your racing and performance driving history?
  • The one that got away: The Porsche 930 “Orange Crush” story
  • You were the president of Griot’s Garage and part of the company for nearly 20 years. What was that like? What changed/inspired you to create CarsYeah!
  • If people aren’t aware of CarsYeah podcast, it’s one of the leading automotive podcasts out there, on the air for over 8 years and 2100+ episodes – so for those that are hearing about it for the first time, what is CarsYeah all about?
  • Before we wrap up, Let’s put you in the hot seat, how about some CarsYeah inspired PitStop questions?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Our guest calls himself an incurable automotive enthusiast, interviewing successful entrepreneurs who live a lifestyle around their passion for vehicles of all types. Be it cars, motorcycles, trucks, or something more. Guest interviews include industry leaders, celebrities, racers, artists, builders. If it’s related to the automotive world, you’ll more than likely find it in his huge catalog of episodes.

Crew Chief Brad: Our guest takes you on his journey, gets under the hood and aims to provide his listeners with inspiration with us [00:01:00] tonight on break fix is Mark green, the founder, producer, and host of cars. Yeah. Cars. Yeah. Is a five day a week podcast where Mark talks with inspiring automotive enthusiasts, people who have wrapped their passion for automobiles into their careers and lives, and we’re delighted to be sharing his story with all of you, so as he puts it, sit down, buckle up and enjoy the ride.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, Brad. And welcome to break fix mark for this boomerang crossover episode.

Mark Greene: Guys, Eric, Brad, thanks for having me break fix. Let’s see, what are we going to break and fix today? I’ve got some tools handy and I’m ready to go. So thanks for having me. This is awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: If there’s a claw hammer in your toolbox, you’re definitely ready to work with us in the pit crews.

Mark Greene: Wait a minute, a claw hammer?

Crew Chief Eric: The sign of a real mechanic.

Mark Greene: Okay, well I do have one of those too, so no worries.

Crew Chief Eric: Like every good story, there’s always an origin. So let’s talk about the who, what, where, When and how of Mark Green, the petrol head, how did you get your start in the automotive world? Did you [00:02:00] come from a car family or a racing family?

Mark Greene: Not a racing family and kind of a car family. My father grew up on a farm in Texas and was the only one of five kids that came West, went out West. He became an architect, met my mom in college. Actually in Oklahoma, and then they came out west and I grew up in La Jolla, California, which is in Southern California, just north of San Diego.

It’s kind of a beach community, grew up surfing at the beach every day, that whole lifestyle skateboarding, biking. But my father, when I was about. Five. I think it was, he bought a 1949

Crew Chief Eric: MGTC.

Mark Greene: And when you’re a little kid that age, you’re used to, I think we had a, he called it a Pontiac lemon. It was a Lamar, but it was a lemon.

It was the worst car. One of the worst cars we ever had. The other was an Audi long time ago though. And when he brought this little car home for me as a little boy, I just went. Is this for me? Because it was like a little toy compared to that car. And then the later car, we had the first gen of the Oldsmobile Vista [00:03:00] Cruiser.

I thought it was the coolest thing. Plus it had the steering wheel on the wrong side. It was on the right side. So when you got in the car, you set where the driver was. My dad had a spare steering wheel and those old cars had these Banjo steering wheels that were really unique, cool, super lightweight.

And he used to give me the spare one and we would drive, I would sit there and pretend like I was driving. And we pull up next to people and they’d look down and go, who’s that kid driving the car? And I’d hold the wheel up and laugh. And we had a great time. I really think that car is what put the bug into me for sports cars, especially European sports cars, which we’ll talk about today.

And I always remember and remembering five years old, it’s getting harder and harder at this point in my life. But I do remember one day we went to the hardware store and we went inside. My dad was an architect. He was always building things and designing things. And they had this little display on the counter called Matchbox pre Hot Wheels.

And I said, dad, look at the cars. And he said, well, I’ll buy you one. He bought me the first one, which was a red Jaguar XKE [00:04:00] coupe. And I still have it. And that was kind of the beginning of the collection of the Hot Wheels, which led to Matchbox, which led to building model cars and go karting and minibikes and motorcycles and cars.

And there we go. And that’s where it really all took off from.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re entrenched in the car world from a very early age. That’s awesome.

Mark Greene: Well, yeah. And it’s interesting, my mom was never into cars. My dad was into his car for a while. And then as I got older and his responsibilities grew, the idea of an MGTC to drive to work every day was a little bit ridiculous.

Car. Many mornings had to hand crank the thing. My mom didn’t like it because in the sixties, women were those big, what’s the name of the Simpsons? Wife? The beehive. Yeah. The women wore the teased hair and my mom would have to put a scarf on because otherwise the hair would fly all over the place. She didn’t really care for that car that much, but I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

I remember the big grill and the dashboard was. Supposed to be wood, but the guy he bought it from had taken that off and put an engine turned [00:05:00] aluminum dashboard. You know, back then I didn’t know how that was made, but all these little circles and these beautiful Jaeger gauges that were kind of green tinted old fashioned, and it was super cool.

And when my mom and dad would take my sister and I, there’s a little platform behind the seats. There’s no back seats in those cars, of course. There’s a little platform where you actually sit up above the driver and the passenger. My dad bought us these, he went into the surplus military store, these goggles and leather caps, like flight caps.

And there was a little bar across the back of the seats. And he used to say, If you’re a chicken, you’ll hang on to the bar. That’s the chicken bar. Now, of course, these days he would have been arrested for child endangerment because, you know, super dangerous. I mean, if we’d already been hit or something, we got flying out of that thing.

No seatbelts. It was like going on a rollercoaster ride. Every time we went for a ride, it was super fun. Good memories.

Crew Chief Brad: Looking, you know, in your background there, I see you’ve got the nine 11 on your wall. Were there any other cars that maybe your family hadn’t owned that influenced you as well as a child?

What were some of the posters on your wall?

Mark Greene: Posters were [00:06:00] Porsche racing cars primarily because I’ve just been a Porsche guy forever. That started with a neighbor up the street. He was kind of this cool dude because he was a bachelor. I would say he was probably in his mid twenties or something. I’m thinking he was some kind of a trust fund kid because we lived in La Jolla, which was a more affluent neighborhood.

He had his own house. He wasn’t married and he had cool cars. And one of them was a 58, 59 Porsche Carrera. Speedster, that car was cool. And I just say, take me for a ride. And he was a surfer. So he would take me down to the beach and we’d stick our surf boards. Believe it or not. Now, back then the boards were short, but we’d stick them behind the seats, nose down, and he’d put this strap around.

I mean, we drive down to the beach. We were just five, six blocks away and go surfing. And I think that influenced me along with many of my friends, parents, fathers had very nice, Sports cars. A lot of them were doctors and lawyers and business owners and finance guys. And so I would go to friends houses and the first thing I would do is what’s in your garage?

And I’m talking about things like Miras and Jaguar XKEs and [00:07:00] the first 450 SL Mercedes and old Alphas and these cars that these dads would have. And I’d go visit friends and I’d End up in the garage with their dads. In fact, junior high girl, I was very smitten with she invited me to her birthday party.

I thought, Oh man, this girl likes me. And I went over to her house and she said, you know, my dad has a Porsche Speedster and I know you like cars. So I went out in the garage. And the whole rest of the birthday party, I didn’t even attend. I was in the garage. She was very mad at me. Never invited me over again, but I spent the whole time out in the garage with her dad because he was getting it ready to take it to a Concord event.

And so I was helping him clean it. I remember Q tips in the tires and we put these wrappers on the tires. And next day I actually, my dad took me down to the car show where it was and he let me sit in it. Very fortunate to grow up in that community where there was lots of very cool cars. So you could see them Southern California.

There’s cool cars everywhere anyway. So, yeah, but on the wall for me, we’re either surfing pictures and posters at a surfer [00:08:00] magazine or posters of European sports, racing cars, mostly nine 11s, of course, nine 17s, five 50 spiders, three 56s, all those kinds of things. And the, the, on the wall here is a painting from a listener in Russia.

And he painted that for me and mailed it to me, got a picture of me in my Porsche 930 turbo. And I called my orange crush. We’re going to be talking about that car today, I think. And he sent that to me and that’s me in the car. If you look at it, look, actually it looks like me. And I thought, what a nice guy.

I invite him to be on the show, but his English is still, he’s working on it. We’ll get them on the show on these days. Yeah. And if you walk through my house, I have a wife who’s a saint. We’ve been married 38 years in about a week. And all the pictures and paintings in our house are all past guests, photographers, artists, painters, and so forth.

So the whole house is car stuff and a couple of guitars. Cause she’s played guitars a lot. The fender straddle in the back is a limited edition hot rod. Fender [00:09:00] Shadowcaster. So makes it kind of cool.

Crew Chief Eric: So Mark, I think it’s time for our first pit stop question of any in this episode.

Mark Greene: All

Crew Chief Eric: right. So what we like to do is throw in these just random off the cuff opinion questions.

And in this case, you’ve named dropped some serious cars. If our listeners were paying attention, things like three 56 speedster and Mira and Alfa Romales and all sorts of other things. So that begs the question in your opinion, what is the sexiest car of all time?

Mark Greene: Now this is very difficult because I have a saying, if it rolls on rubber, I probably love it or some aspect of it.

But boy, sexy is a specific word. So I’m going to stick to that. And I’m probably going to answer this in a way that a lot of my regular Cards Out listeners may go, what? But there’s a reason for this. One would be Lamborghini Miura. That car when it came out, and I remember there was a doctor in town in La Jolla that had one, it was orange, and I just couldn’t believe that thing when I saw him drive by.

And I wanted to go find that guy. I did end up finding him actually. To me that car [00:10:00] is sexy because it just got these curves and the eyelashes and the headlights. And the way it’s designed. I grew up with a dad who was an architect and a designer. He really influenced me from a design aesthetic. And I ended up going to school and getting a degree in both business administration, but also in design.

And I worked in design for 11 years. That would be one. Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale. Again, round, voluptuous, kind of the same as one of my favorite cars, 550 Spyder, although I guess I could call the 550 Spyder sexy, but the Stradale goes to a whole nother level. I mean, it’s just, it’s Italian. I mean, hey, the Italians know how to make sexy cars.

Now let’s go to England because the Aston Martin DBR2 has a lot of those same feelings. You see what’s going on here. 50, 60 sports cars, kind of my background. So that Aston Martin to me, and there was a local guy up here that is in the Pacific Northwest that had one of those cars, used to bring it to the historic races when I was racing.

And it’s just, That [00:11:00] car to me is just so, so cool. Of course, you can’t forget the Jaguar XKE, probably one of the sexiest cars ever made. The Series 1. Although I had a detailing business, I 14, and one of my clients had a 72 V12. I used to ride my bike down to South Mission Beach and drive it back home. And when I drove that car, I just, I still feel it, smell it.

That started to get a little clunky, those 72s, that third gen, I think it was, but the first gen Jaguars, I mean, it’s so delicate. It’s just little, wonderful little piece of automobile that I think everybody has to say it’s one of their favorites. So I could go on and on, but those, I pick those as kind of my first choices when you use that word.

Crew Chief Eric: And the best part about the last one that you selected, which does come up quite often. The E Type Jag is probably one of the best looking designs of all time, right up with the Miura and some of the other ones you mentioned. But the irony in the E Type is that as beautiful as the cars were that were coming out of Ferrari, Enzo always said that the E Type, [00:12:00] Was the best looking car.

Mark Greene: Some people are probably saying why there is, is there not a Ferrari in there? But to me, one of my favorite Ferraris is the 250 short wheelbase, but that’s not a sexy car. That’s a masculine car. I mean, it’s a little bulldog. Got that sense of feel. And I love that car. It’s spectacular. The GTO, I guess you could say sexy, but again, I think of that more as a masculine race car type thing.

The TRs, 250s, I mean, I don’t know, but I’ll just limit it to those. Cause we could talk on that question for a long

Crew Chief Brad: time. You hinted when we asked you that question that you could find something you like about pretty much anything that rolls on rubber. So we’re going to ask you what’s the ugliest car of all time and put that statement to the test.

Mark Greene: Yeah, I live by a motto that my mom taught me, and many people have heard this. If you don’t have anything nice to say. Don’t say anything at all. I’m not going to answer that question because there’s lots of them that I think were probably cars designed by committee and you just kind of look at them and go, what were [00:13:00] they thinking?

And even some of the new supercars, I kind of went. Okay. How many people got into this kitchen and threw some salt and spices into the pot? They kind of went a little bit the wrong way, but ugly, every car has something about it that has an element that’s interesting. And when you have a design background, you always look for that in everything, even if it’s something that’s not so great.

Take a great piece of art, for example, you go, that’s a really Weird painting. When you start looking at little elements of it, you’ll find something you kind of like, or you think is kind of interesting. So if you’ll allow me, I think I’m not going to answer that question, or at least I answered it the way I just did.

If you’ll let me get away with that.

Crew Chief Eric: I believe that’s the automotive equivalent to pleading the fifth mark, but we’ll take it. It’s okay.

Mark Greene: Yeah. I hate those guys to plea the fifth, but I’ve never been on, I’ve never been in court in front of a judge. I’d probably do the same thing. Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: That was the wrong answer.

The correct answer is Pontiac Aztec.

Mark Greene: [00:14:00] Here’s something funny about that. My wife and I just started rewatching the breaking bad series. And I remember that car, of course, in that, and I chose that car. I’m sure for a reason, but yeah, that’s a tough one to like, I’m still trying to find the right angle on that thing. I shake my head and go, who, what, why?

I wasn’t in the room. And when you start getting into General Motors, and I’ve had a lot of designers, car designers on my show, and they talk about the difficulties of being in a big company and you think, Oh, this guy designed the car. It’s never that case. Now, maybe back in the day, Scaliette, Vittorini were designed the Bertone’s.

I mean, all those guys, DeGiario’s. The lure car, there’s just too many people in the room and it’s kind of like that scene out of Ferrari versus Ford and that great line where he’s in the office with Mr. Ford and he said, you know, I saw that red envelope get passed around among five or six hands. That’s not how you do things, not how you win races.

And I would assume it’s also not how you design cars. [00:15:00] We’ll leave it at that.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. So let’s jump back in the timeline a little bit here. And you foreshadowed a couple of things. You talked about working with your friends, three 56 and preparing it for a concord. Then you dropped a hint about starting a detailing business at 14 years old.

So a lot of people may know you now for cars. Yeah. But some of us remember Mark Green as the president of Griot’s garage. So take us on the journey of how you went from From this inspiring automotive enthusiast at the age of 10 or so to being the president of Griot’s garage.

Mark Greene: I studied graphic design at a state of business in college.

And my first job was actually in a design firm in San Diego. Part of our many client lists were catalogers back in the day. This is pre internet. So that’s how you, your mailbox was full of catalogs. And I received a catalog in the mail from a guy named Richard Griot, his first one. And in fact, I had a white 72S on the cover, which ended up being my car for a while.

[00:16:00] It’s back in his garage now. However, we were designing catalogs at Warner Design. I worked with another Richard, Richard Warner. So I called on Richard because I get this catalog. My wife said, I came home. She said, Hey, check this out. You guys should be designing this catalog. And I looked at it and I went, yeah, we should.

It needs some help. So I contacted him multiple times. He was very busy back then. There was just. He, another guy and a lady answering the phone. That was it. It was the very beginnings. And so I think I had to call him seven or eight times. And I finally, he just said, I have somebody, I don’t need you. Well, our firm was the first company in San Diego to use Mac computers.

Now it was the Mac SE, if anyone remembers those little goofy box, but you could design things on it using PageMaker. There might’ve been another software before that. I talked him into allowing me to come up by saying, I’m going to come up and buy a bunch of stuff from you. I’m not going to pitch you. I just want to buy some stuff.

And what’s he going to say? No. I was driving an 84 Porsche Cabriolet at the time. I drove up there in that car, parked right in front of his window. So he would [00:17:00] notice it. I figured this guy’s a car guy, has a Porsche on his first catalog. Long story short, got to know him, landed the account. We started designing the catalog for him and we became friends.

After a couple of years, he said, you know, I’d like you to come on board and help me build this brand. I still need somebody to do the marketing. And Wear a lot of other hats. I always say I wore so many hats at Griot’s. I wore all my hair off, which is pretty true. And so I decided to leave the firm I was with.

I’d been there for 10, 11 years. And now I worked with Griot’s for about two and a half years before I became a real employee. In fact, for about three, four months, I was working both jobs. I would do my job in the design firm. And then at night I would do stuff with him. And I did that for like three months.

It was not easy. Didn’t want to leave my old business partner in the lurch. He was trying to find somebody new. We built that business up. So we had a lot of clients and I joined Griot. So I was there for over 20 years, essentially. And initially I was, we all had titles, but we did everything. I did all the graphic design and advertising, [00:18:00] started traveling around the world, looking for products that we could brand.

We were trying to develop. The brand, part of it was pretty quick for me to see that the real value was the car care. There was only three or four car care products. When I started there, we were selling a lot of hard goods. The problem with hard goods is when somebody buys a tool, they break it and they expect a new one.

They never buy that tool again. But when you buy a bottle of wax, you use it up and you buy it again. We started steering down that path. Long story short, I was there for a long, long time, did a lot of things, eventually became the president of the company and ran the company. And as the company grew, we decided very quickly, he’d already had in his mind, we were going to move out of the state of California.

We were some of the earliest APs from California because it just wasn’t conducive to business taxes, name it. There was a lot of challenges, even 30 years ago, not as many as are now. So we came up here to the Northwest and I came up here kind of crying and screaming because I had this. Porsche Cabriolet that when it rained, it leaked because those old Porsches didn’t have [00:19:00] waterproof tops.

Believe it or not, they got saturated water, started dripping right through them. I remember in the owner’s manual, it said top is not conducive to inclement weather.

Crew Chief Eric: Very German explanation. I love it.

Mark Greene: Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, there’s no cup holder either. Shouldn’t be drinking while you’re driving. I sold that car.

I bought a, 911 coupe Carrera 2. We moved the business up here. Eventually we ended up buying a company that was making products for us so we can make our own car care products. We moved the manufacturing to the Midwest because of shipping. We had a warehouse that we built. Shipping was a lot less expensive from the Midwest than Pacific Northwest.

Most of our clients were California, Florida, that region. Learned a lot, traveled a lot, did a lot, did everything. And during that time started racing, which we may talk about vintage racing. It was a wonderful experience. I learned how to do so many things in business. We built brands, we built products. I traveled and met people.

We branded things. We find people in Germany that made screwdrivers and we’ll help them redesign them. In a way we thought was better and put our name on them. So I learned [00:20:00] a massive amount of information and knowledge in that time period. And it was really, really fun. We were fortunate because Richard had the means to expand the business whenever we needed to.

So he bought this old Coca Cola bottling building, and he tasked me with designing it into our new corporate headquarters. Kind of said, do whatever you want. And so I got to bring that old design aspect into my career, marketing, passion for cars, products, travel, racing, associating with clients. It was, it was really a really great time.

Crew Chief Eric: So since you have that design background and the vision, and you got started with Griots from the very early days, are you responsible then for the current logo? And if so, there’s a debate always about what the car actually is. Cause it’s kind of ambiguous. Sort of think it’s British, could be an AC, could be a JAG, could be an MG.

So what’s the answer? What’s the secret?

Mark Greene: Well, I’m not going to reveal the secret because I didn’t do the logo. The logo was already designed when I came on [00:21:00] board. They had printed the first catalog and mailed it to me. We started producing, I think it was the Third catalog. Now, keep in mind at that time, Grails was doing four catalogs a year.

And then there were three titles of each catalog. So at one point we were doing like 17 or 18 a year. However, that was already done. I wouldn’t say I was stuck with it because I think it’s a nice logo and it’s great. But I had an ongoing debate with Richard all the time that that was a Jaguar. No, it isn’t.

It’s no car. I go, yeah, some car it’s, you know, and I would even overlay some of the Profiles of one twenties with that car. And they almost were exactly the same to this day. I don’t even know who designed that logo. I’d like to talk to them and find out where they got the inspiration because you don’t typically design in a vacuum ideas come from your surroundings or places you go as a designer.

I know that. So I don’t, I wish I could reveal the secret, but, and if Richard knows that he never revealed it to me in all the years I was there, he vehemently said, no, it’s not a Jaguar. But in my world. [00:22:00] It’s a 120. So

Crew Chief Eric: see, so this is what makes it fun. And maybe one day we will find out and listeners, if you know the secret, we’d love to hear about it.

Mark Greene: Yeah. I don’t think anybody out there knows except Richard. And if he really doesn’t know, then whoever designed the logo. And again, I have no idea who that was. Yeah. Cause we were involved so early. I mean, I wrote. The copy from almost the first time I got involved there, we were taking the photographs, designing products, page layouts, and so forth.

In fact, the difficult thing for me, and it’s a funny thing, Richard originally wrote the copy first person. I came from a world where copy for selling products was problem solution based. His was I’m using it. Therefore, You should. When I started writing all the copy, I had to think like he thought, which not the way I think.

So I actually had a hat that had Richard on it and I would put it on and try to, okay, if I’m him, how would I think? You know, I traveled the world with him. We spent massive amount of time. I was at work 10, 11 hours a day. I mean, seven days a week sometimes. So I got to know him really well. So [00:23:00] I got the flow down.

The trap was that it kept me writing long into much Further past, I should have been spending my time on that, but I did a lot of that at night at home, but it was fun. I always wanted to keep that creative side going because that’s where I came from. And I still get to do that with cars. Yeah. I designed my own website with cars.

Yeah. All the photographs you see on my site. I shot all those. I write all the copy, the scripts for everything. I’m kind of a one man paper hanger here sometimes with one leg. So,

Crew Chief Brad: Well, the griot story is very fascinating to me, but I want to hear more about the racing. You know, you’ve mentioned, you mentioned the racing a few times.

Yeah. So let’s talk about your racing, dare I say, career and your performance driving history

Mark Greene: wasn’t a career. Well, I’ll tell you how it started. Uh, Richard Griot had some vintage race cars, but he wasn’t running them. He worked at Skip Barber way, way back before he started Griot. And one day he said, Hey, how’d you like to go racing?

And I go, well, yeah, but you know, it’s very expensive and I kind of work a lot. I don’t know when I’m going to have time. He goes, well, we’ll figure it out. So I [00:24:00] ended up getting a car that he actually had restored 1960 Lotus formula junior 18, but I’m going to back up from there because when you decide to go racing, it’s not a good idea to just buy a race car and go race because you may not like it, you may not like racing.

You may not like. Or be comfortable at speed. You may not like the race car you bought. You know, you hear these stories about a lot of guys get to the point in life where they can buy their high school dream car and they buy it and they get in it and they go, this thing sucks.

Crew Chief Eric: Never drive your heroes.

Mark Greene: There you go. Yeah, exactly. So I started in an E36 M3. Now I’ve had four M3s. I was always driving 911s and I had a lot of them. But I bought an M3 from a college student, a gal whose dad had bought her a car and then she hardly ever drove it and she had to go back to China, I think is where she was from.

So I ended up getting her car for really cheap. She had to unload it. I was at the right place at the right time and it was a really nice car and I went. These M3s are kind of cool. And at the time I was in part of many car clubs, member of many car clubs. One was BMW. And so I met [00:25:00] a guy and he said, why don’t you bring it to the track?

It was specifically Pacific Raceway. Say that five times, twice, 10 times fast. And so he said, why don’t you come up and try it? So I went up and I did a driving school where they took us all out for a day. We’re all novices. Taught us all these different skill sets and helped us learn if we wanted to be up speed.

Well, this is where it gets interesting. And they had all these instructors, one for each driver. At the end of the day, the instructor would take around the track in their car at speed because they’re much faster. And they said, this is what’s where you’re going to be going. When you do this more, you’ll get up to speed.

This guy had an M3 just like mine. I went, okay, cool. So we get in the car, we take off. And if you’ve ever been to Pacific Raceway, it’s a wonderful track elevation changes, kind of a Laguna Seca ish, but not as cool is smaller and tighter. And you’ve got to be really careful. There’s some very bad places to go off there.

So all day, they had told us through this one corner five, a five B that you had to be in this one location. So we went through it and he was in the lead of all the other, the master driver, master trainer, whatever they call him. [00:26:00] Chief instructor. There you go. And so, well, I’ll call him something else in a minute.

So we went through that corner and I went, that’s weird. This guy’s in the wrong location. He told us to be over there and he’s going in here. So we went around and we came out of that screeching and I’m like, whoa, this guy’s going fast. Went around again. He went through there and completely lost it. We spun the car 180 degrees.

And all I remember was coming around and seeing this train of cars coming. right at us, eyes as big as saucers. I grabbed the armrest. We didn’t get hit. We almost got hit by the guy behind us. Went off the track backwards, car flipped upside down and went down the hill upside down. Whoa. Yeah. And we stopped and the car’s running and I looked at him.

I said, does this part of the lesson? And he uttered some, uh, Uttered some words we can’t say here. And I said, you might want to turn the engine off. So he turns the engine off and the mirror had folded and shattered the window. And this is where I learned, if you ever go on a track and do a track day, even if it’s hot, keep your [00:27:00] visor down because when a window shatters, that glass goes everywhere.

And I had my visor up and it went in my face and ended up cutting my mouth and my lip a little bit, a glass in my mouth and stuff didn’t get hurt. Cause he had four point harness. So we were pretty good. pretty safe, but he messed his car up pretty good, crawled out of the car. So, uh, yeah, that was my first experience.

So I kind of came home and, you know, Jill, my wife, she said, so how was the day? And I said, Oh, good. Anybody crashed? None of the students.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Mark Greene: And she looked at me and like, and read me like a book. She goes, so what happened? And I told her, and so that was kind of the beginning, but I realized, okay, well this guy, for whatever reason, you made a mistake, pick one.

There’s a lot of reasons to crash on a racetrack. So I decided to buy some slicks and start taking my E36 to track. So I did racing here down in Oregon, not racing, but track days. High speed performance days where you could do passing and things. And after doing that for, I think about a year and a half, maybe two years, I bought another E36 M3 and I went, you know, I think it’s time to buy a car.

So ended up getting the Lotus and started [00:28:00] racing that. If you know a Lotus 18, it’s a small, tiny car. This was a junior. So it had a thousand CC motor drum brakes. I mean, It can’t go that fast, but it can bite you. I never felt safe in that car ever because you were so vulnerable. Colin Chapman was known for lightness, right?

He didn’t care about his drivers, I don’t think. So my shoulders were way above the sides of the car and never crashed that car. Went off a few times, but never crashed it. So yeah, we got to do that with Sovereign, Pier Pacific Raceway, interbracing that car at Sears Point, Thunder Hill, different places in California.

And then we ended up doing three day driving school, Skip Barber back at Road America and got to drive some cars back there. Richard has some real fast, cool race cars and ended up also getting, uh, actually it was Richard’s, but I got to drive it 67 Lola T290 sports racer. It was supposed to have a two liter, but it had a 1.

7, but still way faster giant slicks compared to my little Lotus, a whole nother experience. All of a sudden I was at the front of the pack versus. The back of the pack and the Lotus, they’d lumpy in with Formula Fords, which were 1600 CC cars. You couldn’t [00:29:00] keep up with them. So it was a little disappointing, but there were two other guys at Sovereign that had 18s.

John Shirley was one who has quite a car collection up here, including a GTO and is what I call garage mahal. He calls it spinner garage, but it’s the garage mahal. And there was another gentleman we’ve since lost him, but he had an 18 too. So yeah, the racing I did for 10 or 12 years, something like that.

Super fun, super expensive, but. It was a nice escape from work because when you’re racing, kind of like, and we may talk about motorcycles because I got into those a little bit. When you’re on a track, you can’t think of anything else. All of us know that when you drive to work in the morning, sometimes you get there and you don’t even remember what the drive was like because you’re thinking about work or whatever.

I can’t do that in a race car. So the focus factor there was really cool. I had some great instructors. Met a lot of cool people, got to do a lot of fun things. So yeah, if you have the means, I highly recommend it as far as Buehler said in the movie.

Crew Chief Brad: And then you just touched on motorcycles a little bit.

Tell us a little bit about your, your motorcycle, I guess, experiences.

Mark Greene: Well, I’ve always [00:30:00] loved motorcycles. When I was real little, my parents got us, uh, my sister and I each a Honda trail 70. Because we used to take a camper down to Mexico camp on the beach. And we’d ride those things up and down the beach.

And to this day, in fact, I saw one down at car week that was for sale. And I’m like, Oh, I’d love to buy one of those. And I think they’re like 5 grand now or 6 grand. And then I go, what the hell am I going to do with one of these things? Nothing great little track bikes. But I had a friend in junior high and high school, Bobby, who.

Raced motocross and he had a garage full of bikes, he and his brothers. So I’d go over there and he’d loan us bikes. We go, we could ride from our house out to Miramar neighbor layer station, because back then there wasn’t as much development San Diego, and you could ride, do canyons and get out there and ride all day long.

Or we take them out in his van and go riding. So bikes were always a big part of my life. But then when I grew up. They went away and life gets busy and then met my wife, we got married, had kids, and so I wasn’t into bikes, but then I kind of got back into bikes and I love Italian stuff, so I ended up getting a Ducati Monster, a [00:31:00] 750, and also an MV Agusta F4, which was probably one of the most stupid bikes I could have ever bought.

Just insane. I think they revved to 19, 000 RPM or something. Just wicked crazy bike. They were so beautiful and I wrote them for a little bit on the streets, but I realized after a couple of years, everybody’s out to kill you. There’s too many people not paying attention. Every time I went out was a close call and I tried to ride on roads that were out elsewhere.

And if it wasn’t a, somebody in a suburban trying to hit me, it was a deer jumping in front of me or a dog chasing me. Or every time I came back, I’d go, you know, I’ve got kids. I got to put through college and a wife and this is a little bit silly. So, uh, yeah, common sense took the better of me. So I sold my bike to a guy in my office who really wanted it.

And the MV ended up going to, uh, Butch Denison of Denison International. His wife, Nancy bought it for him as a gift. He has a collection of Italian bikes in his home and it ended up. living in his house. I think it’s still in his entry. Appropriate place. I should have kept it and put it in my office right here behind me.

I didn’t know I was going to be doing this back [00:32:00] then. So there you go. But I love bikes. Every time I see one, I, I like to have another one of those, but I don’t know, maybe that’s the best idea these days. I did take both bikes to the track once thinking maybe I’ll get out and do high speed. But the group I went with, they said it was a beginner’s group.

These guys were crazy hot shoes. After about an hour, I went, I’m in the wrong group of people because these guys are like, you know, knee drop sliding two corners. And I’m going to die out here. I’m going to wreck my bike. Uh, this was a bad idea. So, um, I came home. That takes time to ride a bike like that. A motocross, you know, fly around, fly in the dirt.

You’re fine. No big deal. But I loved motocross. You know, that’s another time I probably should have taken up instead. Was motocross pretty fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Your knees probably thank you for not doing it though.

Mark Greene: Yeah. At this point in my life, a lot of parts of me, thank me for not doing that. But you know, I had a couple of friends who got hurt really bad and actually a couple who died on bikes, not by their own fault, somebody hitting them.

And so you just kind of go, Oh, Uh, [00:33:00] yeah, I had this thing called mortality and like I said, I had children I needed to take care of and sent to college and a career and a job and a wife and family. And, uh, it seemed a little selfish, uh, kind of vintage racing was a lot selfish. I’ll put it that way. And that’s part of why I quit doing that.

Cause college was looming. I always say my sponsorship. Money changed to a couple of private colleges out of state. So I’m happy to do that though.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. And I totally agree with you. Like, I love the idea of bikes. I’ve had a couple of bikes in my past as well. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze. If you can get that similar feelings in a car,

Mark Greene: you’ve got a little baby now.

So you’ve got a, you’ve got a whole nother line of responsibility. You got to really think about because that little, little boy, right? He needs to have you around for a long time. So, uh, yeah, your priorities change, but you know, there’s other ways to get out there and have fun. Exactly.

Crew Chief Brad: And speaking of getting out there and having fun, are you still tracking and what’s your home track?

Mark Greene: No, I’m not. After I stopped racing, getting on your street car and attract just didn’t seem fun anymore. And that may sound a little silly, [00:34:00] but when you drive a purpose built race car on a track and you get in a street car, there’s so many differences. And I love my street cars, man, I enjoy driving them spirited, but you beat them up on a track.

And at that point I had started focusing more and more on work because I’d become the president of Griot’s. I had a lot more responsibility there. My children, like I said, college was coming and my wife had retired long ago to stay home and raise the kids. So I was the sole breadwinner, if you will. So I just thought, you know, I think I’m not going to do this anymore.

Every once in a while. Get out there and have a little fun if I got invited to something, but no, but my home track here would be the Pacific Raceway. There’s also one out in Shelton. They’re building a real track just north of me here. That’s going to be real racetrack. And, uh, I call Laguna Seca my home track because that’s where I got my racing license.

I love that track. And I got to race on it a few times. I’ve driven on it many times. That track to me is I feel at home when I’m there. And so, [00:35:00] yeah, I would say those two, but I’ve got to drive on a lot of different tracks, road America. I did a three day open world driving school. That track was awesome. I mean, so long and there’s so many technical aspects, but then now I can say that about Sears point.

Cause I raced there a bunch. So here’s point, that’s delicious too. So, yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: well, that brings us to our next pit stop question. Oh, okay. Any bucket list car and track combo. And I’m going to throw in bike as well. Are there, is there any bike car track combo on your bucket list? You’d want to drive or ride.

Mark Greene: Oh, sure. A nine 17 S bar. Um, now some may go, that’s kind of. That car is spa. Hmm. You know, not endurance car spa. I don’t know. You guess you could say spa endurance racing, but there’s other tracks, but the portion nine 17, because it’s a Porsche nine 11 heritage, I never been able to drive one. I’ve been able to sit in one, but that car to me would be pretty darn cool.

I’ve become friends with Bruce Kanepa, who’s credible driver, and he’s got one and is driven one. I’ve spent a fair amount [00:36:00] of time just talking to him about what that car’s like. Compared to the nine 11 and, you know, he’s an incredible driver and spa to me. I mean, so many great tracks, but spot to me is just one of those tracks that has some magic to it.

And it has that elevation change in the backside. And of course, coming down the front and up the Hill. Yeah. So I do that. I can’t say I would want to do any track on a bike at this point, maybe back when I was younger, but, uh, yeah, portion nine 17 is Bob would be. You throw me the keys. They haven’t have keys.

Maybe, uh, throw me the keys to that and say, take it around. I probably wouldn’t be very skilled at, at this point, but I certainly would have fun.

Crew Chief Eric: So that leads into a follow on pit stop question, which is, do you follow any motor sports disciplines? Do you watch any of the racing on TV or live?

Mark Greene: You know, I used to a lot.

This is an interesting question. I’m so busy with what I’m doing now. I just kind of try to steer as much away from television as I can, focus more on what I’m doing and [00:37:00] people. And I, I interview a lot of authors and books and things like that. So I don’t, you know, I say that to people, they go, what’s wrong with you?

Now I used to follow F1 religiously from when I was, before I was even married and all through that time period. Now here’s a funny thing. My daughter is the oldest of two. He’s 33. My son’s 28. And I try to get my daughter into cars. I took her to vintage races. I introduced her to Christie Edelbrock. I took her to car shows, took her to Monterey car week when it was only three days, when she was one carried on my back.

I mean, I tried so hard, never interested, just. Eh, yawn. Not interested, Dad. They came out with that series a couple years ago, where they did a documentary on Formula 1. She is now, and her husband, who has no interest in cars, they’re Formula 1 fans! So when I say, oh, Dad, did you see the race this weekend?

Could you believe he did that corner like that? I’m just, oh, I get, and I’m like, Who are you? That series I think has done more. And I’ve talked to Zach Brown. He’s been a guest on my show. I saw him down at car week [00:38:00] and talked to him about this very thing that has done more for formula one in the United States than anything ever.

And if you think about it, people love drama reality shows, and that turned formula one into a personal reality show about the people, not the cars. And that’s why I think it’s exploded. And now they’re talking about doing that for NASCAR, motor GP. I mean, all these other elements, because now when people see the people behind it, they’re interested.

Otherwise it’s just a car going around a track. You also talk about going to races. My wife’s never been into cars at all, but we lived in Delmar, California when we were first married and they used to have the IMSA races that the. Delmar racetrack. It was basically in a big parking lot, but still we could hear him from our house.

And I talked her into going with me one time and she was just, I want to do that again. So I’ve always said to people, if you’ve never been to a race, my dad used to take me to drag races in Orange County when I was a little kid. And I was like, In fact, I met Evel Knievel at one of them, which was pretty cool.[00:39:00]

He jumped a bunch of school buses at the end of the drag races, but Don Garlitsch was there. He ended up being a guest on my show. So it’s kind of cool. I remember you, you signed a picture for me when I was like eight years old. Going to races is cool, but yeah, I’ve just, I’ve kind of. Excuse the pun, steered away from it of late.

I guess I’m just so busy doing other stuff that I just haven’t gotten back into it. I kind of watch it from the outside a little bit, and sometimes I’ll go back and watch a race. But I probably just blew my whole career and the weeds. Thanks to that question, guys. Cause at all, he’s not a car guy. Stop listening to cars.

Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Geez, for anybody that’s listening, that may not know. I believe the TV show he’s talking about is on Netflix called drive to survive. Yeah. And that is a show that we are desperately trying to get Eric to watch, but he is very adamant that he will never watch it. I think I’m going to, the next time I see him, Eric, you can mark my words.

We’re going to have to pull a clockwork orange on you. Sit you down, hold your eyes open and you’re going to, you’re going to watch it.

Crew Chief Eric: I got disenfranchised from the beginning because the [00:40:00] title alone drive to survive. I thought it was about world rally championship, which is my discipline of choice, and then when I realized it was about formula one, I was like, I’m done with this noise.

Mark Greene: You know, give it a chance. Give it at least three episodes. Okay. Just give it three and I think you’ll find it interesting and perhaps it will broaden your world a little bit like it did mine. Get you energized about that discipline.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m a Senna and Schumacher fan

Mark Greene: from

Crew Chief Eric: way back.

That’s where it stops though. That’s the thing after Schumacher retired, I was like done.

Mark Greene: It’s gotten to be a bit of a circus, but I think this is why I got into it. And that is I’m about people. Karjaz about people. It really isn’t. I should have called it people. Yeah. But. You know, who would listen to that?

Cars, yeah, if you’re a car person, makes sense. And cars are the catalysts that bring people together. Car Week is a great example. You know, I spent six days down there. The friend [00:41:00] I go with every year, poor Bill, he just rolls his eyes and walks away because I can’t walk five feet. feet without meeting somebody that’s been on my show or has listened or I get to talk to about their car.

And he just, in fact, I went to one of the shows with him and I said, Bill, I’m going to walk the show the way you walk the show. I can 20 minutes. We were done. I’m like, you didn’t even talk to one person. He’s like, well, I don’t talk to people. That’s not what I do. Yeah. Just give it a chance.

Crew Chief Eric: All right.

Mark Greene: All right.

Okay. I like the clockwork orange reference. That’s good.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, speaking of giving chances and one of Brad’s favorite questions, we did a whole episode around this called Regrets in the Desert Island. I want to talk about the one that got away specifically.

Mark Greene: Ouch.

Crew Chief Eric: Your Porsche 930. And what’s unique about this car is first of all, if you don’t put Mark Green and the orange crush together, it’s all over the internet and social media and everything.

I don’t know that I’ve seen another 930 in that color. So let’s talk about. Is that a factory color? Was that a factory acquisition? [00:42:00] What led you to that car? And then the question that everybody’s been asking you now, why did you get rid of it?

Mark Greene: I know. Okay. Let’s go back to the beginning. That car was ordered by a guy in Ohio named Mr.

Four tens who owned. 410s Porsche Audi back in the 80s. He saw a car that was a Porsche press car in 86, a turbo that Porsche brought out. It has since vanished unless someone out there knows where it is in that color. It was not a stock factory color. Porsche painted. It’s a three stage metallic pearl orange.

And so he called Porsche and he said, I want to order a car in that color. And they said, nah, we’re not going to do that. It’s too complicated. We not going to do that. And so he said, well, please. And he kept bugging them. They finally said, if you can find three customers who will buy cars in that color, turbos, we will do three cars.

He had a little trick he used to play with Porsche back in the day. If you ordered, or your customers were ordering a lot of special cars, you got better allocations. You got more [00:43:00] cars. So he would tell Porsche that people were ordering these cars, but they weren’t. And then he would get them in and sell them.

And that gave him better allocations. So in the case of this car, he invented three people to buy the car. They were people that worked for him. He sent them to Germany. So they were European delivery. And I don’t know this for a fact, but I do know for a fact that back then, if you bought a European delivery car, it was cheaper.

Even if you just gave the keys back and they shipped it home, it was less money for us buyer. And so he bought these three cars. Well, he sent his employees over. One of them was a woman and her husband, her husband was the finance manager, and she pretended to pick up her new turbo. And then she handed the keys back and said, I don’t want to drive it, ship it back.

He did that with all three cars, my car, there’s a sister car to my car, exactly the same, but not as many option. My car was highly option. And then he ordered a slant nose, which was an expensive. addition to the options. So the story goes that he was trying to save [00:44:00] money and he called, I think it was Lufthansa, and he said, I can’t want to fly these cars back.

I don’t want to put them on a ship. And so there was a ability to be on a waiting list. So they shipped the cars over to the Lufthansa shipping center and they sat there for a while. Along many weeks and he goes, why are my cars not here? Well, because all our loads are full and you said you wanted discount load.

Well, he finally had to give up and ship them all home. They all came home. He brought them to his house. He didn’t want people to know he had three in the same color. So he put the first one in his showroom. which was not my car. I think it was a slant nose and he sold that car. Well, here’s where things start to get really crazy and bear with me because the story is much longer than we have time for today, but I’ll narrow it down.

The buyer of the slant nose ended up being a guy named Russell Flurry. Russell Flurry started a company called Road Scholars, which is now owned by the Ingrams. He was a Porsche guy. He bought that car and had it while his wife, and he had other Porsches, his wife ended up getting cancer. And so he had to sell all of his cars so he could stay home with her.

When she was essentially [00:45:00] dying. We lost Russell last year. Great guy. I became friends with him. He was a guest on my show. Awesome man. Sadly COVID got him, but his car ended up going to Richard Sloan, a Sloan cars. Now Richard’s another guy we lost to cancer several years ago, but his son, Brett runs Sloan cars.

And so he had that car when he had it, it only had like 14, 000 miles on it. He or his son, Brett, I don’t know which ended up selling the car and it’s vanished. It’s in a collection somewhere in a garage. Somebody that’s not on social media. The second car, not mine, but the second car, the twin to mine was then sold next.

And that went to a family in Texas. It’s still with that same family. The gentleman who bought it died and left it to his daughter. His daughter still has it. His daughter’s husband contacted me when I sold my car to talk about it because there’s. thinking of selling it. My phone just started ringing off the hook, but they’re not sure, but they’re not really car people, but there’s a sentimental value there.

But my car was sold last. Now, the reason I share the [00:46:00] story is I have since met Mr. Fortenza’s son, Marcus, who works at Penske Porsche. He was in high school at the time. He reached out shortly after I got my car. And when I left Griot’s, I had it for about A year and a half of grios and I left grios. I had it for 13 years and I started using it on social media, calling it my orange crush because I had a crush on it.

And he reached out to me and he goes, where did you get that car? My dad ordered a car like that. And I used to sit in it in our garage at home because it sat in our garage for four or five months before he sold it. And he used to dream about. owning that car. And I said, yeah, this is one of your dad’s original ordered car.

So I’ve met all these people around this car. As the story goes, you asked me, why did I sell it? We all know what the car market has done lately. It’s gone crazy. And I don’t buy cars to hope to make money. I buy cars because I like in the eighties. I wanted, well, in the seventies, I wanted a turbo because I was a kid.

I couldn’t afford one. And then in the eighties, I wanted one. And I was the so called adult with a new house and a. wife and a baby. I [00:47:00] couldn’t afford one. So I always wanted one. So that car fit the mold. But when I saw that car on eBay, which is where I bought it from, from a broker in Florida, and I won’t get into the story of how it got down there, but it basically was a one owner car.

But if you look at the car facts, it shows. Some woman who owned it, i. e. the lady whose husband worked there. Then the original owner who was in Indiana, who had it most of the time. And then he sent it to a broker to sell it. The broker sold it on eBay. And that’s how I got it. The car shows all these ownerships, but really when I got it, it only had one owner.

There was all these convoluted stories behind it. And this onion that I kept peeling away every year, as I learned a little bit more, a little bit more, just became kind of a blossom of this story. Which added to the, the wonderful story that are all cars have, but it had become too precious. I’ll put it that way.

I like to drive cars. It had become very valuable. It was all original, never damaged. It was an [00:48:00] incredible shape, although it had 41, 000 miles on it. I just couldn’t drive it without freaking out. So I was afraid somebody was going to hit it. I would never leave a park somewhere. Somebody might steal it or back into it or maliciously scratch this car just because, you know, and so it just sat in the garage way too much.

And I finally, at the beginning of this year, told my wife, I said, I think I like the idea of owning the car more than I like owning it. And she never really liked the car anyway. So she goes way too flashy for you. Thanks, dear. We decided to sell it. I got smart. I found a guy who was the past guest on my show, Rafi Manasian.

He handled the whole deal for me. He sells cars for people. He’s a car designer on bring a trailer. I know Randy, he’s been a guest on my show twice. And so we did this whole thing. I had Randy on my show the day the car went live. And to this day, that car still holds the record. I’m bringing a trailer for an 87 turbo for achieving the highest price point.

Now here’s where it gets even more fun. The car lives an hour north of me with a collector and it sits in a garage that I’d like to live in. [00:49:00] This guy’s house is insane. It lives amongst a whole bunch of its brethren and sister and other brightly colored Porsches. This guy likes to drive his cars and his curator.

He worked for me at Griot’s when I picked my car up originally, his name’s Tim. So now he is taking care of Orange Crush and it’s kind of like, I feel like I’ve loaned it to a museum and I’ve got visitation rights. And, um, probably if I go up there, I could even give it a drive. So it’s a wonderful rounded story.

And honestly, I don’t miss it because it’s in its new place. We all know cars are going to their new caretakers and they always will. We’ll be long dead and the cars we’ve had hopefully still be around and people will be enjoying them. Maybe they’ll all be in museums if they outlaw gasoline, but they’ll still be around.

So that’s a long winded and there’s a lot more to it, but I tried to be as brief as I could, but it’s a very complex story, but that’s what cars are so cool about.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s why we say everyone has a story, right?

Mark Greene: They do. [00:50:00] Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So that begs the question, did you replace it with anything?

Mark Greene: Not yet. I will. I have an E46 M3 that I bought new.

It was my fourth M3. I bought new in 05. It’s just a wonderful car. And what I’ll be doing is selling that car, because it’s now worth probably what I paid for it. If you look at bring a trailer M3 prices and my car is pristine, highly option. It’s got the competition package option. It’s a really, really nice car.

Sunroof delete. I will sell that car when I get the next car and the next car will be a Porsche. It won’t be an old Porsche. It’ll be a newer Porsche that I will drive even when it’s raining, even when it might be snowing. I’ll put snow tires on it. I’ll enjoy it. I’ll park it and walk away. I’ll still look back, but I’ll walk away and not fret about it sitting in a curb somewhere.

Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen. So I’ve got a couple in mind. I know what you’re going to ask me, I think.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you? Will it be a petrol powered [00:51:00] Porsche or an electric Porsche?

Mark Greene: No, it won’t be electric. Nothing against electric cars, but no, it won’t be electric car. Now this could change because things change.

It’ll probably either be a 911 GTS or more likely because all my 911 diehard fanatics are steering me towards this car, a 718

Crew Chief Eric: Those are both solid choices.

Mark Greene: You know, I’m long done with the wing stuff. I’m not going to get a GT3. I’m not going to get a GT4. I want a car that’s comfortable, but fun. The challenge for me is color.

I want a crazy color. And I talked to Porsche about painting it orange crush orange. And they said, well, we can do anything for the right price. It’s a very complex problem. Very expensive. It’s way more than the 11, 000 they charge for paint to sample. I don’t think I like it that much when they started quoting me 25, 30 grand, if maybe.

And the process takes seven to nine months for them to even determine if they [00:52:00] can do that or not. Because the surfaces are all different now on cars and not just metal anymore. So that’s kind of where I’m leaning right now. I used to have lots of cars, bikes, and I’m trying to simplify my life. My focus is on cars yet.

And I’ve got a new grandson where a lot of focus is now. Hopefully we’ll have more grandchildren. I’m trying to simplify. I want a car I’ll get in and drive and enjoy the Porsche 930. I just wasn’t doing that. And it was just a shame. I know it sounds ridiculous to some people, but I’m very picky with my cars.

And yeah, I’ll be picky with a new one, but at least if something happens, it’s like, eh, okay, fix it, move on.

Crew Chief Eric: You’ve simplified and added lightness to your life. So yeah,

Mark Greene: yeah, yeah. I, I, I follow this guy on YouTube. I think his name is Joshua. Who talks about minimalism. We’ve always lived kind of a minimalistic life.

We have a contemporary home, but even minimal, minimalizing your life more. I’ve been a pack rat my whole life, and I’m trying really hard to change that, to lighten all those, what I call burdens, I’ll tell you, it’s freeing. And I’m trying to focus more [00:53:00] now on experiences instead of things, which Well, I don’t think I know it’s a lot healthier way to live a life.

My son has taught me that lesson. He’s very much an experienced guy versus a thing guy. I was always a thing guy and I was sacrificed experiences for things. And I realized now that was not the right thing to do.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, speaking of experiences, we got to jump back into your timeline a little bit. So reminding our listeners, you were the president of Griot’s garage for nearly 20 years.

Mark Greene: Well, let me correct that because I wasn’t president for 20 years, but for about the seven or eight years I was. But again, it was always a small company, so we wore lots and lots of different hats, but when I ended there, yeah, I was president. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So that said, I never realized how much competition there was in the world of car care and detailing and all that.

And there’s all sorts of names. Yeah, exactly. The craziness that goes on there. So I would suspect that after 20 years, like you’ve been talking about, it was time to downsize, it was time to purge. It was time to change your latitude to use your terms. Right. What [00:54:00] inspired you to do that? To create cars.

Yeah. How did that all come about? And where did the name come from?

Mark Greene: Great question. We had kind of a three part catastrophe in our family. For one thing, agree is I’ve been there a long time and I was starting to go, you know, been here a long time. Maybe there’s something different to do. Richard was changing his focus and things.

And it was just like, you know, maybe it’s time to do something, but I’ve always done this. I don’t know. It’s fun. What do I do? Well, my father was 80 at the time he fell and broke his neck. His C2 vertebrae. That is the doctor said the Christopher Reeve break. My dad was always very active, very physical. He did yoga.

He ate well for an 80 year old. He exercised every day. He was always working on his home and he fell off a deck that he was building, smashed his head and broke his neck. Luckily he wasn’t paralyzed, but he was in a bad way. Then my wife’s mother. got cancer. And so we had these double whammy going on. And then my wife ended up having what’s called a large cell tumor in her leg.

And so that required a major [00:55:00] surgery and required her to be in bed for quite a while, months. I just felt like I need to stay home and focus on her. and take care of her. At the same time, we had just gotten through putting my daughter through college. So she was off in a career. My son was in his first year of college.

I went, okay, time for me to sell back my shares of Creoles were and come home, take care of her and find something different to do. And my son came home from college and I said, look, Blake, I’m trying to figure out what I can do from home so I can care for your mom. And also I need to make some money because your tuition is really expensive.

You know, so he was on the East coast and private school. And he said, dad, you’ve been taking me to car shows my whole life. My son’s been to pebble beach car week, 18 times. I’ve been 32 times. I’ve taken him to car show. Now he was a car guy. So I got to do all that with him versus my daughter. And he said, dad, I always tease you.

You can’t walk by somebody without stopping and asking them about their car and their career. Cause I’m in a business, entrepreneurship, how do businesses work and asking questions of people, which is what I do all day long. He said, how [00:56:00] about a podcast? And I, this was about nine years ago. And I literally said, what’s that?

I was dad, get with the times. Now I was not a tech guy. I had people at Grills doing that for me. I was running the business. I was trying to focus on brand building. And Product development, all this different stuff. And then remember this nine years ago, things have changed a lot in nine years in tech and in the world.

So I said, okay, well, let me look into that. So I started investigating what a podcast was, studying it, calling people who do podcasts. If they would talk to me about it, ran into a guy named John Lee Dumas, who does a wonderful podcast, very successful entrepreneur on fire, joined his group, learned how to do it.

And three months later, Launched cars. Yeah. One year from the day I left griots May 28th, 2013. You asked about the name, try to find a domain name. That’s not taken with the word cars in it. I’m a creative guy. I’m a writer, a designer. I’d come up with hundreds of names. And every time I go to go daddy or wherever you go, blue dot or whatever, and it’s taken, it’s taken.

Well, one night my wife and I were watching TV [00:57:00] commercial was for hotels. com I think. And we were sitting there and I was pretty like, well, I got to. Come over the name. I’m designing this whole concept of what I’m doing. And they said hotels. com hotels. Yeah. And Jill looked at me and she said, Cars. Yeah. I said, what?

She goes, cars. Yeah. That’s your name. Yeah. And I went, yeah. And she goes, yeah. So I ran in and I looked and it was not taken. I couldn’t believe it. So I bought up, you know, every version of it. I could. And I’m like, okay, that’s the name. It just makes sense. And it flows. So I designed the logo because I’ve designed hundreds of logos.

Maybe obviously the six gated shift gate with the microphone is, and it’s kind of cliche, but it works. And that’s where the name came from. And so it took about three months for me to figure out how to do it, how to learn, how to record. I mean, you guys know all the technical side of this. This is not easy.

And I’ve had lots of people call me and say, I want to be a podcaster. Go great. In fact, I’ve even been paid to help people get their podcast up. I did one for a guy who wanted. [00:58:00] Yeah. He mimicked what I did, but for golf and I said, okay, if I don’t mind call it golf. Yeah. But once we got into it, they all say the same thing.

And you guys know this, this is a lot of work. I mean, there’s a lot of moving parts to this thing. You don’t just these so called YouTube stars. Put a YouTube out, you’re rich. That doesn’t exist. Podcasting, it really doesn’t exist. So I had to learn all these components while Jill was back in the bedroom convalescing, I’d be up all night learning how to code, build a website.

I’d never done that before. How to record, use Adobe audition, how to move tracks around, and then Put it all together with this deadline. I set for myself. Cause I’m all about deadlines and business. I’m very methodical, set up how I was going to do it, practice with a few friends of mine and Rick Cole, who did the first auctions at Monterey car week was my first guest.

Thanks to a lady named Cindy. She was handling his PR and she called me and said, Hey, Mark. I knew her from before. She goes, you’re doing this cars. Yeah. Thing, but. Like who’s going to be on your [00:59:00] show? And I said, well, I’m trying to find people. But every time I call somebody, they go, what’s a podcast? I mean, nobody knew what a podcast was.

She said, well, I have a client. Would you like Rick Cole? And I said, yeah, I know Rick. And so he was the first guest. I decided to do five shows a week because nobody in the automotive sector was doing that. I don’t think they still are. And everybody said I was crazy. Just like they did to John Lee Dumas, he did seven a week.

But I said, I want to just get into this and I need to start to monetize as fast as I can. And within about four months, I had a first sponsor and it kind of went from there. So that’s how it all happened. And now it’s just like you guys know, tenacity and bulldog in this. Don’t quit. Sometimes I get up and go, this is crazy, but don’t quit.

And I’ll tell you, I’ve only missed one show and that was my dad died. It was rather sudden. I learned a lesson to have what we call shows in the can, because back then I would maybe record a show on Monday that would go up on a Wednesday. And I was always kind of trying to catch up. Now I’m two to three weeks ahead of myself.

So [01:00:00] that taught me. So I was really upset. I needed to go down to San Diego and I. Said to Jill, I don’t have a show for tomorrow. And she goes, Mark, your dad just died. People will understand. Your sponsors will understand. Just do a rerun. They do it on TV all the time. They do it on a radio. So I reran Jonathan Ward of Icon because I thought it was a cool show at the time.

While I was down there, I was able to edit another show. And then, but that was the only time I’ve missed a show. Thanks dad, but not thanks because you died. I don’t mean that. Just thanks dad for making me realize there’s an alternative way. He was such an awesome father and he taught me my work ethic because he grew up on a farm.

And as my grandpa said, the cows and horses don’t go on vacation. Yeah. That’s where that all came from. Here we sit. I just did this morning, Oh, 161st show. Yeah. Crazy. It’s fine.

Crew Chief Brad: For people that aren’t aware of the cars yet podcast is one of the leading automotive podcasts out there I mean you’ve been on the air for what eight years.

You just said a little over eight years over 2, 100 episodes

Mark Greene: Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: so [01:01:00] for those that are hearing about it for the first time, what is cars? Yeah all about what’s your thing?

Mark Greene: What’s my thing? Well, there’s a couple things since I come from this marketing background and I overdo everything I built a whole business plan for this Podcast.

But the first thing I had to figure out was the why. And if you ever listened to Simon Sinek, great series, Ted Talks, he does YouTubes. He talks about the importance of your why. This relates to everything. Why are you doing that? Now we went through this at Griot’s and we were trying to come up with what our slogan was, which became have fun in your garage and understanding why people buy from us.

There’s a whole nother backstory to that. But for me, I decided that was going to come down to three words, inspiring automotive enthusiast. I was going to interview inspiring automotive enthusiasts so that together we could inspire automotive enthusiasts to help them realize they can work in a field that they’re passionate about.

And that came from many of my friends who were very successful neurosurgeons, real estate brokers, bank owners, finance [01:02:00] guys, business owners, but they loved cars and they weren’t working in that field. And they would always say to me, Mark, you’re having so much fun. You’re working around cars all day. I was at Griot’s.

It was all about cars. I want to do that. But I live for the weekends or I live for retirement. Well, if anything, COVID taught us is you may not get the weekend. You may not get retirement because we’re all mortal. Things can happen to us. And I think that COVID, if it did anything good, did a few things good.

And it didn’t do them good. But it taught us valuable lessons that you don’t have as much time most of the time as you think you might have. And we all do this. We think, oh, I’ll start it next year. I’ll go do that thing next week. I’ll do it when I retire. I wanted to show people by interviewing people who figured out the secret sauce to life, that there are a whole lot of people.

And I remember my mom, when I started this thing, aren’t you going to run out of people? And I said, never, never run that. There’s so many people in the automotive industry. And the great thing now is for the last few years, I don’t have to chase people. They come to me now because I’ve got all these relationships with PR firms, [01:03:00] publishers, racetracks, concourse events, celebrities, and they bring people to me.

So that cuts down one big hassle and that is trying to find, there’s still a few people I reach out to, but most of the time, my weeks are filled with people that are. coming to me. So yeah, that was the whole goal in that discovering your why is the idea of in your business. What is your mantra? You know, the proverbial 32nd elevator ride, you get an elevator with somebody, you can tell them everything about what you do by the time the doors open.

A lot of people can’t do that. And I worked a long time on this podcast of how to do that. So I say, I’m a podcaster cars. Yeah. Is a five day a week podcast for an interview, inspiring automotive enthusiasts, people who have figured out a way. To wrap their passion for cars, trucks, and motorcycles into their lives, their careers, and their businesses.

And I’ve interviewed over 2, 100 people. The door is going to open in another 15 seconds. Cause I’ve got it all out. What I just gave you took a long time to get squeezed down to that, but that’s what I think everybody needs [01:04:00] to do. We did it at Griot’s. Our goal there was to sell products so people could have fun in their garage.

That’s why our mantra was have fun in your garage. That’s why we sell products. So if you can do that with your career, and I’ve gotten pretty good at it now with people, even people haven’t figured it out to show them what theirs is all about. That’s what the whole thing is all about. And the best thing is I get to talk to people from all over the world.

This morning, I was up at five o’clock talking to a guy in Thailand, who’s building electric motorcycles, high performance electric motorcycles. Then I was in London. Talking to a broker. And then I was in New York talking to a guy who’s an investment banker, who’s getting into investing in electric cars.

And then I was in Florida and now I’m talking, where are you guys by the way? We’re

Crew Chief Eric: in the DC area.

Mark Greene: And while I’m back on the East coast, so you know, you just travel all over, but that’s the other thing COVID did. It taught us that we didn’t have to go places. I’d love to get my private jet and fly around and do all this, but the motors are always broken.

Every time I call the airport, they go, Mark, you don’t have a private jet. Quit calling us. So there you go

Crew Chief Brad: on that. [01:05:00] Do you have any favorite moments from your 100 plus shows favorite guests perhaps? Or is there anybody on your Mount Rushmore that you haven’t had yet that you’re you’re striving to get?

Mark Greene: We’ll start with the easy one. Yeah. I I’d love to have Jalen on the show. I’ve walked up to him four times in the line of Pebble. Very nice man, handed him my card, trying to get to him. I don’t know him personally. I, I can talk to his secretary about once a month and hello, Mark. How are you? Uh, he doesn’t need me to do anything.

So maybe one day he’ll have mercy. I’ve tried mailing him stuff and stuff. Jay, if you’re listening, throw me a ball in here. You know, I would love to have you on the show. Chip Foose is another one I really would like to have. I’ve just. I’ve had him booked several times. He’s had to cancel and just haven’t been able to get him back.

I ran into him at Car Week. We were at a private event that Radford Motors put on at the racetrack Tuesday night. He was there. Talked to him again. He’s always super nice. Yeah, no problem, Mark. Some of these guys are so well insulated, trying to get their phone number or email is a [01:06:00] bit of a challenge.

Those are probably two guys I can think of. There’s so many more. I’ve had a few that I had lined up. They were all scheduled and we lost them. Dan Gurney was one of them. Another one was Sir Sterling Moss. And so those are people that I wish I had had, I had them all scheduled, talked to them. They said, yes, we were all booked and agents or whoever called and said, I’m not feeling very good today.

And eventually they passed. Denise McCluggage. I had her on the show about a month before she passed. I didn’t know she was so sick. She didn’t mention at the beginning before we recorded that she’d not been doing well. I didn’t know she was that ill and we lost her. So I’m grateful for the people that And it’s sad because I’ve lost 10 past guests this year alone,

Crew Chief Brad: 10.

Mark Greene: The good thing about that is I record, this is in perpetuity. And a good example would be Nicole McGuire, Barry McGuire, Car Care King. His daughter was on my show. We lost her a few years ago. And Barry, I remember he called me on her birthday last year and said, Mark, I want to thank you because we realized the only recording we have in Nicole is your show.

So we can go listen to her on her birthday and we relisten to the [01:07:00] show and we get to enjoy that. So thank you for doing that. I tell you favorites is a tough one. It’s like your favorite kid or your favorite car. I’ll answer this without getting myself in trouble because when you have 2150, 60 people, why did you mention me, Mark?

You know, I like guests that go into a different path than I ever thought they would go because I have a script that I work with my show that I send people in advance for a very specific reason. Cause most people are very nervous being interviewed. In fact, I don’t even call it an interview. I call it a conversation.

But they’re very nervous. And if they don’t know what you’re going to ask them, and you guys know this with your show, they kind of freak out. And a lot of people are more likely to say no, but the scripts can go many places. And I’ve had guests where the scripts have gone, where I can’t even believe I’ll mention one, Tim Medvitz.

He was a guy that built choppers for movie stars. He dated Cher for four years. He was going to marry her. This guy was a hell’s angel. He was a pretty wild, crazy party dude. Dude building choppers for the Hollywood stars. He was in a terrible motorcycle accident, almost [01:08:00] lost his leg. And during recovery, he became addicted to pain pills and alcohol.

He was very depressed because he couldn’t walk. He needed to have care. He felt like his manhood was gone. And he really went down a black hole. Now I was interviewing him to talk about his motorcycle bill. And all of a sudden we went down this other path. And I just let him go. And you know this, when you interview people, sometimes if you just let them go, they’ll take you places.

Now, this is something that I wish I’d known in high school when I was dating, ask some great questions and shut up, right? So he took me down this path. We went where he’s doing the heroes project and he ended up going to the top of Mount Everest, climbing Mount Everest. He didn’t make it the first time he got within 300 yards, you could see it.

And they made him come back because they said, if you go to the top, you’re not going to come back. You’re going to be dead. Because you’re out of oxygen, you’re worn out, you’ll never make it back. And so he came back two years later, he went back and he made it. He has since started helping veterans who’ve lost limbs go hiking.

And in one case, he helped a [01:09:00] guy climb Mount Everest who had no legs. The best part of this story is Tim figured out And this is where I’m going to share the secret to life, the real secret to being happy in life. And this is what I’ve learned after all these interviews is Tim learned that life was not the Tim show.

Life was about helping other people. And when you figure that out, you make your life so much better. And that’s what I’ve learned because those serious talks I’ve had with guests that have gone through really serious things, had a guest on the show whose father killed her mother. He was a violent man and she learned that if she went out and helped other women get out of those relationships, she could save them another woman whose husband died and she started a car show so they could detect prostate cancer in men before they died like her husband did all of these people.

that figured out what really makes them happy, figured out how to do something to help other people. And so I try really hard with the concept of Kharjah that by sharing stories, I’m helping people find a better path in life [01:10:00] so that they don’t go to a dreary job every day. They don’t wake up going another day.

I wish it was Saturday. I mean, I see people that go, it’s Friday. Yay. And I’m going Friday to the weekends here. I still have too much to do. I mean, I don’t care if it’s Friday. That’s the real big secret I’ve learned. And when I’ve been hired to go do keynote talks at Concord events and people’s businesses, that’s what I talk about.

And I get into more in depth about the specific stories. They’re much more convoluted than what I’ve done here, but probably the wrong word to use, but that’s the secret. And I will tell everybody listening here. If you haven’t figured out how to help somebody in some way, go figure out a way to do it.

Because you will discover what you probably never knew is how good that makes you feel. It’s like we go back to, I talked about instead of things, experiences. And if you look at one of the three top ways to be happy in life, it’s helping other people. And a lot of people never figure it out. We know selfish people in our worlds, right?

That they never figured that out. It’s always take, take, take. But the ones who [01:11:00] figured out how to help, whether it’s just tithing at church or going and helping in a soup kitchen or whatever way you do it, pick one, there’s so many ways to help people, that’s it. So that’s the real secret to our discussion today, how to be happy.

That is how to be happy.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, in addition to teaching people how to be happy, do you have any words of wisdom for young aspiring podcasters specifically that you’d like to share? Maybe some do’s and don’ts.

Mark Greene: That’d be a long winded answer, but what I will say is you need to be realistic about it. Number one, it’s like starting any company, you need to have a runway in front of you.

If you think you’re going to start a podcast and within the next month or two, you’re going to be making money, probably not going to happen. You need to save up some money, maybe do a side hustle. First, keep your main job. Hopefully you’re doing a job you really like, but do that on the side and start to build, because you guys know this, you got to build an audience.

And unless you have a lot of money to go out and advertise, I did this all bootstrap. I’ve never spent any money on advertising. [01:12:00] I figured out creative ways to co brand, promote a magazine, get an ad in a magazine. Promote a company, get them on my show. Promote a concourse, get guests on the show, get free passes to the concourse, meet people at the concourse, invite them to be on your show, meet potential sponsors, get to know people face to face, go to SEMA, all those things.

I would say you’ve got to build that runway first. Financial runway is what I’m talking about, the term runway. Have some money out there. Secondly, Study people who’ve done it successfully. Entrepreneur on fire, John Lee Dumas, that guy is a rock star. He makes a ton of money. And so I followed him. I joined his group and I basically tried to mimic what he’s doing.

Still have not reached his high level of success, but I just look to him as, okay, what did he do? And how can I relate that to what I’m doing? When I was in advertising, Tony Robbins, we all know who Tony Robbins is. I landed him as a client in our advertising company. This is way back when he was just starting.

He did his personal power cassette [01:13:00] tapes. I met him one morning when I was coming out of the ocean. I’ve been surfing and he was running down the beach. You don’t miss Tony Robbins. He’s a giant and ended up doing his marketing for him. We came up with this whole new look for this packaging and he goes, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I wanted to do this. I’m doing this stuff with Gunthy Ranker. This is what we do. And I said, well, that’s what everybody does. And he said, well, yeah, because it works. And I remember him saying, don’t reinvent the wheel. Look at what other people have done. Mimic them, but do it in your own style. That’s what Tony Robbins has built his entire career around that.

He just tells you that I read a hundred books. I picked the best things out of a hundred books and I did all those things and I repeated it and I shared the message. That’s all Tony did. And I say all he does, does a lot more, but that’s the simplified version. Now, if you ever get around Tony Robbins, Ooh, that guy’s an energy package.

Um, incredible person. And it’s done a lot for people. He’s learned if you listen to him. The secret to his life’s happiness is giving back. He’s feeding people, millions of people, because when he was young, they had no food. They didn’t have money. And [01:14:00] so he learned that I’m going to help people by feeding people.

And he has this whole program. So if you’re going to start anything, I think study the masters. Talk to as many people as you can. Maybe go work, offered to work for them for free. The first three months, I was a great as I worked for free. Cause I was doing my other job and show them that you have wherewithal.

They may be able to give you some insight and perspective and help steer you down the right path, but be realistic because this superficial world of social media, we see of all these successful people. I I’m a firm believer that if it looks fishy, if it smells fishy, it’s fishy. And most of this stuff is fishy, you know, it is.

I mean, cause now I know cause I’ve done it and how hard it is and it’s always hard. To this day, I’ll call people about being sponsors and they’ll go, what’s a podcast? Okay. Now I need to educate you on, but that’s part of learning your craft and learning how to do something for somebody. And again, when it comes to advertisers, you got to think about what do they need?

Not what you [01:15:00] need. What do they need? Can you do that for them? Realistically? Can you really do that for them? I learned that in advertising because that’s what we had to do all the time. When you work in advertising, you What are your needs? When you used to work in real estate clients, we need to rent this building to tenants so you learn about what tenants want, what do they want in an office space?

So you gotta be realistic, but follow experts, determine who the real experts are too, because there’s a lot of so called experts that really aren’t.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Mark, we have a little bit of a surprise for you before we close out the episode. Oh, good.

Mark Greene: Okay.

Crew Chief Eric: I know that you’re accustomed to being on the air all the time, but you’re usually listening to people recounting their stories rather than being the interviewee.

So we figured we’d put you in the hot seat and ask you some Karzya inspired pit stop questions. Okay. Why don’t we get under the hood? with a challenge.

Mark Greene: All right. Here we go. Oh, he looks really serious. If you were a car, if you were a car, what kind of car would you be? [01:16:00] If you were a car, what would you be?

And more importantly, why? Where did you come up with this question?

Crew Chief Eric: Imitation is a sincere form of flattery, Mark. Well, thank you.

Mark Greene: I appreciate it. That question was quite interesting. If you’ll indulge me. That was not my original question. That question came from Harold Kleeworth, who’s an artist. When I asked him the original question, he said, I don’t like that question.

Why don’t you ask it this way? And he gave me that question, which is a much better question. It’s more about getting into the mind of somebody versus just what’s your favorite car. And so I’ve said, okay, Harold, I’ll ask it that way. And he had a very unique answer. You can go back and listen to his podcast on the car show website.

I actually interviewed him twice, very talented guy. So if I were a car. Not what I want to be, but who I am. And this is going to probably, people are going to go, Eh, you’re chinstapped. But no, I’m a 911. And a 911 is because a 911 is very purpose built. It’s not flashy. I’m not really a flashy person. Like I said, my wife looked at my orange crush and [01:17:00] said, Why are you driving a bright orange car?

That’s not you at all. Always driven silver cars. And I’ve always been very conservative and safe and, you know, done things the right way. I was the kid that sat in the front of the class and raised my hand every time and try to be a good kid and not get in trouble. And so the 9 11 to me is a purpose built car that has lasted through time.

Think about it. 65 66. That car came out. It’s still around. You can only name two other cars that kind of done that, I think. And that would be the Mustang, which I think they’re about to kill off. And why they named that E thing a Mustang, I have no idea. And that must’ve been a boardroom nightmare. And the Corvette, which I think Corvettes really come a long way, baby.

The new Corvettes to me are Ferraris and like, wow, that’s pretty cool. So for me, it would have to be a 911 purpose built, not flashy, gets the job done very well when it has to. It can be some different things. It can be a great street car. It can be a great race car. It can be a great track car. It’s always [01:18:00] been pretty much the same.

And my friends tell me that to this day that have known me since I was a little boy. You’re the same guy. You’ve always been the same guy. I mean, I started a paper route. Who does a paper route for five years? I’m an idiot. I mean, I had a reason four in the morning delivering papers so I could go to Don Patrol surf before school.

So there was kind of a reason behind that. My point is the Porsche just, it gets in, it starts. Bruce Canapa has become a friend. I was at his shop one day and there was a Kona SIG in his paint booth. And I said, Oh, somebody already wrecked their Kona SIG. He goes, no, these guys buy these cars and they think they’re going to be great driving cars, but they’re one hour cars.

I mean, they’re marvelous cars, but they drive them for an hour and they go, I can’t use this for anything. Park it in my garage and it’s a trophy. I’ll take it to a cars and coffee. That’s about it. But he said, I always tell people, if you really want to drive a car, buy a nine 11. And if anybody knows it’s Bruce, cause that guy can drive.

He can race. He builds and restores probably some of the best cars on the planet. The guy has a meticulous eye for design [01:19:00] impeccable taste and nine 11s. Porsches are the cars for him. So I’m definitely a nine 11. I’ve got some German heritage in me. So there’s kind of a little bit of that. Germans are known for doing things away, getting it done, being very orderly and focused.

I’m that way. Everything I do is that way. Just ask my wife about the sock drawer, or she plays games in the pantry and twist the labels after I straighten them all. You know, I think there was a movie about it. Killer that did that, but I’m not that guy. Um, yeah, I think it was called the stranger within, or I don’t know.

Anyway. Yeah. I’m very spit spot. That’s just the way I have to be. Maybe there’s the term for that OCD. Is that what that is? A little bit. Yeah. I get a little upset when things aren’t in the right place and Porsche’s have everything in the right place and they always have, and they probably always will, at least I hope they always will.

Crew Chief Eric: So one of your other questions you ask your guests all the time, because as you said, you’re an avid reader. What about some great reading? Share a great book or two that you’ve read [01:20:00] and you believe others would learn from as well.

Mark Greene: Boy, there’s so many and I’ve interviewed probably if you look on my category, my resource tab on my website, authors and journalists are the best.

Biggest category by far of people I’ve interviewed. I guess tomorrow, the day we’re recording is tomorrow is an author of a great new book about the 51st breakthrough wins of NASCAR drivers. Cool book. But there’s a couple, one of my favorites, Stephen Covey’s Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I read that book a long time ago.

I still go back to that book. The best part is number five, which I paraphrase first, listen to understand, then speak to be understood. If only everybody would do that. And I’m guilty of not doing it. I try to do it. If you first really listen to people, and that’s something that podcast, when you guys are great at it, really listening to someone and not be formulating the next question or an answer or a comment before they’re done speaking so that you really understand what they’re saying.

And then when you do speak, speak eloquently and speak to be [01:21:00] understood, that would be one. Uh, the E myth by Michael Gerber is another. Game changer for me in business. It was, he’s written several books about business and about structuring your business and so forth. That’s an excellent book. Uh, Jordan Peterson’s, I think he’s written one since, but the 12 rules of life, I think is the title might be wrong.

My son gave me that book and I really enjoyed that book. And I know he’s become a bit of a controversial person and I. I kind of understand why, but the other part of me goes, no, this guy’s just telling you how to be a better person. And especially specifically a better man, a better husband, a better boyfriend, a better business leader, whatever it might be.

I really love that book. And when I first read the first chapter about lobsters, I had to stop and reread it. I’m like, what is this guy talking about? I think it’s marvelous. And I really enjoy watching him and reading him and watching YouTubes. His whole philosophy and focus and so forth, I think is really spot on, especially for the time.

So that’s a more modern, I guess, more modern book, but there’s so many, I [01:22:00] always tell people go to my resources tab on my website. I’ve, I’ve got an Amazon affiliate made it really easy for you to click and buy books. They send me a little stuff. Diapans every month, which is kind of nice net for coffee.

Maybe I’ve amassed such a massive library because of all my guests. My wife said, have you read all these books? I’m well, no, I have to be honest. I haven’t, but someday I’m going to be too old and decrepit to cruise around maybe, and I’m going to sit and read and enjoy all these books. I think it’s really important.

And I think a lot of people don’t read anymore. They get all their information from these little headlines and these snippets. And I always encourage people pick something you like and sit down and really get into it. You know, you think of Napoleon Hills, think you grow rich. I mean, I think that title is terrible for that book because it messes up what the real message is in that book.

Here’s a little secret, another secret. Ah, another scoop for you guys. My wife learned this. You can get books for free. You don’t have to go through Audible, nothing against them, but you can get free audio books from your library. She gets [01:23:00] three, four books a week. If they don’t have it, they’ll get it for you.

And they’re free and they come to your tablet. They come to your phone. All you have to do is go in and get her a library card. You do it all online. It’s incredible. I tell people that and they go, what was the last time you went to a library? Never. Well, why not? Well, cause it was kind of weird and stinky old books.

Well, no, they’ve come out of the dark ages. And some of them, if you can get into like the Phoenix library, Oh, that’s the good one. There’s a couple around the country that are even better than others. So read books, listen to books. You can do it while you’re driving or walking or exercising, which we should probably all do more of.

So, There you go.

Crew Chief Brad: So we’re going to close out the surprise section here with the ultimate drive. And if anybody who’s listened to the show knows what my ultimate drive is, it’s riding with Eric 13 hours to Kentucky. Neither one of us saying a word. That is like the pinnacle of the ultimate. [01:24:00] Well, I’m not sure what that says about him.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a miracle because I never shut up.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s either absolute silence or we’re listening to NPR. That was the ultimate drive. But for you, if I could wave a magic wand and arrange for you to go on the ultimate drive, who would you be with? What vehicle would you be in? Who would be driving and what would you talk about with this person?

Mark Greene: Okay. This is going to be a little bit of a challenge to get through. Um, be my dad and it would be in a turbo S a brand new one. And we just talk about life, you know, what I’ve done and what he did for me. Yeah, that’s who

Crew Chief Brad: it’s a good answer. Would the Turbo S be a drop top or a coupe?

Mark Greene: No, I, you know, we’re both follicly challenged.

It doesn’t work very well. I got that from my dad. You know, I lost him about five years ago too soon. And he’s the one that [01:25:00] initially we started the whole talk with him. instilling that passion for not only cars, but for doing things right, having integrity, honesty, hard work, all those things he instilled.

And that’s why I was a paper boy for five years in detailed cars all through high school and college. And even into my first job, I did it on weekends. So we could save up for a house. I mean, I think back how many years I’ve worked a lot of years, I mean, just constantly, but he taught me all those things.

I love Porsche. So it’d be a brand because that’s a car that You can speak in it’s quiet. I could say, look, look at what I, cause he never, you know, I lost him as I was just kind of starting to make this podcast thing work. And he was always a champion of that. I think he’d be pretty proud of where it’s gone.

Also, he’d be able to meet his first great grandson. So that’d be kind of cool. Maybe throw Gunnar in the back seat. He’s not quite talking yet, but he could blab a little bit and throw some food around. Yeah, that would be it for sure. And as far as the drive, it doesn’t matter. I mean, there’s so many great places to drive in this country.

And the cliches are always, you know, up and down the coast, but I’ve done that thing so many times, even [01:26:00] did it on a bike once. So bicycle. Yeah. It’d just be with him. Yeah. Just talking about life. And yeah, he kind of choked me up there a little bit. I have a guest on my show named John Nikas. I ran into him again.

Claim to fame is the, is the only guest. It’s gotten me to cry on air and he wrapped me around an axle. And every time he introduces me, he goes, Hey, I’m the only guest in cars. Yeah. They got Mark to cry. So you guys got a little close. Today. Oh close. Okay. All right.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover this far?

Mark Greene: Well, you guys, thank you for doing this with me. It really an honor to be on someone else’s show and get a different perspective. It helps me learn some things. I learn every time I’m on another podcast, how to be better. At talking with people and you’ve taught me some great things. Of course, Eric’s been a guest in the show.

Got to get Brad on next. Most definitely. So the invitation remains open to you as far as shout outs. I just, you’ve not heard of cars. Yeah. I’m easy to find cars yet. com. I have a website. [01:27:00] All my shows are there. You can listen to them all there. You can find Carja on virtually every mobile podcast app. I think I’m on 85 of them now or something like that.

You can find them on YouTube, although you’re going to go to YouTube and go, nobody listens to this show, not on YouTube, but you guys know it’s free to load it there. So I load it there and I’ll encourage everybody go to my website, click on the free book button so you can sign up to get my weekly emails.

I promise they’re very fun and easy and fast. The blog that I do also, I’ll send you my free ebook, which is called filler up. Which is an ebook I designed from photos. I’ve taken a very cool gas filler caps and I’ve surrounded the design. I know it sounds silly, but they’re really cool. I’ve designed it in a way that it’s multiple pages and it’s surrounded by some of the great inspirational quotes from guests who’ve been on my show.

So you can go there and sign up for that. I encourage you to do that. And, uh, yeah, just listen. Also, if there are people listening out there that work. Or have careers or lives in the automotive sector. I’m always looking for inspiring automotive enthusiasts. So reach out to me. I’m easy to find mark at cars yet.

com and [01:28:00] we’ll get you on the show and expose your life and inspire others with your story.

Crew Chief Brad: You can enjoy over 2000 interviews on cars. Yeah. Hosted by Mark green. He aims to bring you something new to think about each day. Answering the tough question. How do I link my life and my work into my passion through the stories of others?

You can tune in to Cars Yeah! today on all your favorite podcatchers or music apps. Log on to www. carsyeah. com to learn more. Follow Mark and his guests at Cars Yeah! on all your social media platforms.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Mark, I cannot thank you enough for coming on and doing this boomerang crossover episode. So with us here on break fix, and I have to say, you know, you talk to inspiring people all day long, but you also have to realize that you’re one of these inspiring automotive enthusiasts in the community, folks like Brad and I have been looking up to you for years and what you’ve been doing.

And obviously we hope to imitate and if we get half as good, maybe that’s good enough, but truly seriously, what you’ve done for the greater [01:29:00] community over almost a decade now is just amazing. And we look forward to what comes in the future.

Mark Greene: Well, now you’re going to make me cry again. Well, thank you. That means the world to me, this world of podcasting.

You guys know, this can be lonely because you produce these shows. And typically even the best shows you listen to, how many have you ever reached out and said, great job? Most people just don’t. I mean, we just don’t do that. You can go to Apple podcast and click on the five stars and do that. And that’s kind of nice and fun, but most people you don’t get feedback from, but I really appreciate that because.

Every once in a while, I will, I’ll mention Ramsey Potts. He’s a guy who was listening to my show, hated his job. And one morning his wife said, why don’t you just do what Mark says, go work in the car industry, Ramsey. And that’s what he did. And he has built in a burgeoning career. Now he works for Broad Arrow Group.

He worked for RM. He came up to me on the lawn at Pebble again this year, gave me a big hug. Thank you, Mark. You changed my life. And you realize you can do that. And we talked about that, helping other people. [01:30:00] That’s what makes it all worth it. So your words are awesome. Make me feel really great. And I really, really appreciate it.

And mostly I tell everybody this, I appreciate your time. You gave me time today. That’s the other thing I’ve learned. Time is our most valuable asset. Don’t waste it. Do something you love every moment of every day. And you know what? It’s possible. It’s not a cliche. You can do that. You get to choose what you do from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep, choose wisely.

Crew Chief Eric: With those words. Thank you again, Mark.

Mark Greene: Thank you guys. This has been awesome. Really appreciate it.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right. Listeners. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our Patreon for a follow on pit stop, mini sowed. So check that out on www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports and get access to all sorts of behind the scenes content from this episode and more.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve [01:31:00] heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www.

gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.

And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag. For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newtons, Gummy Bears, and Monster.

[01:32:00] Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
  • 00:27 Meet Mark Greene: The Incurable Automotive Enthusiast
  • 01:49 Mark Greene’s Early Automotive Influences
  • 09:20 The Sexiest Cars of All Time
  • 12:28 The Ugliest Car Debate
  • 15:19 Mark Greene’s Journey to Griot’s Garage
  • 23:34 Mark Greene’s Racing Adventures
  • 29:55 Motorcycle Memories and Mishaps
  • 33:07 Reflecting on Vintage Racing and Life Changes
  • 33:47 Transition from Racing to Work and Family
  • 35:20 Dream Car and Track Combos
  • 36:36 Following Motorsports and Family Influence
  • 41:30 The One That Got Away: Porsche 930 Story
  • 53:18 Starting the Cars Yeah Podcast
  • 01:01:31 Inspiring Automotive Enthusiasts
  • 01:02:14 Lessons from COVID
  • 01:02:38 Building Relationships in the Automotive Industry
  • 01:03:13 The Power of a Clear Mantra
  • 01:04:59 Favorite Guests and Moments
  • 01:09:01 The Secret to Happiness
  • 01:11:15 Advice for Aspiring Podcasters
  • 01:15:30 Rapid-Fire Questions
  • 01:23:41 The Ultimate Drive
  • 01:26:28 Closing Thoughts and Gratitude

Bonus Content

Check out Part.1 of this Crossover!

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

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but wait, there’s a Part 3… with Brad! 

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And then Don & Eric return to Cars Yeah!

Learn More

You can enjoy over 2,000 interviews on CarsYeah hosted by Mark Greene, he aims to bring you something new to think about each day. Answering the tough question “how do i link my life and my work, into my passion” through the stories of others.  You can tune into CarsYeah today on all your favorite podcatchers or music apps, or logon to www.carsyeah.com to learn more, or follow Mark and his guests @carsyeah on all your social media platforms.

Mark’s foray into racing began with a BMW E36 M3, a car he picked up from a college student and took to Pacific Raceway for a driving school. After a hair-raising ride with an instructor who spun out in front of a train of cars, Mark was hooked. He eventually raced a 1960 Lotus Formula Junior 18, a car restored by Griot himself.

His advice? Don’t buy a race car until you’ve tried performance driving. You might not like it – or worse, you might realize your dream car isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Photo courtesy Mark Greene, Cars Yeah!

Cars Yeah!: A Podcast for Passionate Petrolheads

Today, Mark hosts Cars Yeah!, a five-day-a-week podcast featuring interviews with automotive entrepreneurs, racers, artists, and enthusiasts. His goal is to inspire listeners to wrap their passion for vehicles into their careers and lives. With over 2,000 episodes, Mark’s catalog is a treasure trove of stories from across the autosphere.

His home reflects this passion: walls adorned with artwork from past guests, a Hot Rod Fender Stratocaster guitar, and a painting of his beloved Porsche 930 Turbo – nicknamed “Orange Crush” – sent by a listener in Russia.

When asked about the sexiest car of all time, Mark’s design sensibilities shine through. His top picks include:

  • Lamborghini Miura: “Curves, eyelashes, and pure Italian flair.”
  • Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale: “Voluptuous and otherworldly.”
  • Aston Martin DBR2: “Delicate and powerful.”
  • Jaguar XKE Series 1: “Even Enzo Ferrari called it the most beautiful car ever made.”

As for the ugliest? Mark pleads the fifth – though he concedes the Pontiac Aztek is a tough one to love, especially after rewatching Breaking Bad.

Photo courtesy Mark Greene, Cars Yeah!

Legacy in Motion

Mark Greene’s story is a testament to the power of passion, persistence, and design. From childhood rides in an MG to shaping one of the most beloved car care brands, and now hosting a podcast that celebrates the people behind the machines, Mark continues to inspire a new generation of petrolheads. As he says: “Sit down, buckle up, and enjoy the ride.”


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Rooster Hall Racing: Johan Schwartz and Todd Brown’s Racing Journey

Walking through the paddock at VIR, one logo commands attention: a giant red rooster on the BMW M4 of Rooster Hall Racing. But behind that bold emblem lies a story of grit, family, and motorsports passion that spans continents and generations.

Team owner Todd Brown’s journey began with a childhood obsession – memorizing car models and collecting Hot Wheels. A screening of Le Mans with Steve McQueen sealed his fate. Though his mother didn’t attend a race until Todd was 53, his passion never wavered.

Years later, Todd stumbled upon a unique property: a 5,000-square-foot garage with an apartment above, built by a fellow car enthusiast who had passed away. The property’s name? Rooster Hall. Todd kept it as a tribute and later named his race team after it. “It was just wacky enough,” he said. “We’ve got the biggest rooster in the paddock.”

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Lead driver Johan Schwartz grew up in Denmark, rallying on farm fields and frozen ponds. With no motorsports background in his family, Johan carved his own path – starting with rally sprints and Formula Ford before moving to the U.S. in the early ’90s. A Danish lap timer led him to NASCAR, and eventually to SCCA, NASA, and endurance racing.

Johan Schwartz (left) and Todd Brown (right)

Johan joined Rooster Hall Racing in 2018, and together they’ve racked up wins and championships in SRO America. In 2019, they dominated the TC class, winning nine of fourteen races and earning top rankings among BMW drivers worldwide.

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode features a live interview with Todd Brown and Johan Schwartz of Rooster Hall Racing. The podcast spans their origins in motorsports, significant experiences, and insights into their journey. Johan shares his entry from rallying in Denmark to racing in the U.S., and discusses his notable records including the longest drift and the fastest lap in a Tesla at VIR. Todd recounts his lifelong passion for cars, initiation into racing via the BMW club, and the eventual creation of Rooster Hall Racing. Together, they explore the team’s evolution, SRO racing, and future aspirations, including acquiring new BMW models and potential EV records. The episode highlights their partnerships, the importance of support systems, and the intricacies of competitive racing.

  • Origin Story – how did Johan Schwarz and Todd Brown get started in motorsports?
  • Rooster Hall Racing – what’s its history, how has it come together. What’s in a name? The Significance of “Rooster Hall” 
  • Guinness Book of World records for Longest Drift – 8hrs, 232.5 miles, with mid flight refueling in a BMW M5 
  • In a previous DT episode we actually talked about the Tesla Plaid Record at VIR (On Grand) against the new Porsche Taycan. And we came to find out that Johan was the driver of that Tesla – let’s expand on this. 
  • Jokingly you guys have a combined 114 years of racing between you, you might be the “oldest” in the SRO paddock, so let’s talk about your SRO experiences; and the series
  • Future of the RHR team
  • Thoughts on the reveal of the new BMW M4 GT4 – will you be upgrading/switching cars.

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder, how did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, CrowdStrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www. sro motorsports.

com or take a shortcut to gtamerica. us and be sure to follow them on social at gt underscore America on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook. and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT World. [00:01:00]

Crew Chief Brad: Walking through the paddock at any motorsports event affords you the ability to see a lot of really cool things.

Everything is designed to capture your attention and draw your eyes and ears to it from the fast looking cars with their colorful liveries and ear pleasing exhaust notes to the giant flags denoting the team garages. But this weekend one logo really stands out among the crowd, and that’s the giant red rooster emblazoned on the BMW M4 of rooster hall racing.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, Brad. Rooster Hall Racing traces its roots to 2002 with the purchase of a highly modified E30 M3. And today the team campaigns cars in both BMW CCA Club Racing and SRO America. Team owner Todd Brown and lead driver Johan Schwartz join us live to talk about supporting cars in both series, the history of Rooster Hall Racing and some great paddock stories.

So let’s jump back into our session at VIR. So welcome to BrakeFix, [00:02:00] Johan and Todd. Thank you. Thank

Johan Schwarz: you.

Crew Chief Eric: So like all good BrakeFix stories, we want to start out with the origin. So how did you guys get started in motorsports?

Johan Schwarz: Well, uh, I, I, I guess I can go first. My, uh, my love for motorsports has been, I remember when I was like five or six years old and I could name all the cars and I kind of felt bad for when somebody was high revving their engine because, you know, to me they had soul, right?

So why would you mistreat somebody, uh, a car like that? And then I, I Started really getting into the motorsports end of it and being from Denmark, it was rallying, rally sprints, closed course, yeah. The Joakim Kunen’s and the Steve Blomqvist and all those guys, they were just finishing off their careers, but that’s kind of when I started catching up, watching.

Then I started racing on a local dirt road course, which was known as rally sprint, but with chump or champ like cars, you know, very low. But for everybody to go out there and race, there was a claimer rule. And [00:03:00] then, uh, it just went from there into Formula Ford. And then I started actually racing go karts for seat time.

So I went into the cars first before I went to the go karts because my parents didn’t really know anything about motorsports. So they had no idea where to support me and how to get me involved in it. So it was all driven by myself. And then I just drove whatever I could came to the States in the early nineties, back in Denmark.

I’d seen a little lap timing system when I was racing in Denmark. Formula Fords that would give an instant on board lap time, come to find out it was a Danish product, brought it here to the States and uh, had a, uh, a contact that had good contact with Hendrick Motorsports. I installed it in Ricky Rutz and Kenny Schrader’s car.

So all of a sudden I opened my eyes up to NASCAR and like, this is what I want to do. I had come to find out I had the wrong accent for that one, especially back then. But I had a blast, got to know a lot of people, slowly kind of got myself into the road racing part here in the States. Raced a lot of SCCA and NASA.

Then it grew from there, got together with some people doing [00:04:00] some longer endurance races, and then started racing SRO in 2013. Basically an SRO, there’s been a few years I was in transition from one class to another, and then been there in a sense and raced a little bit of IMSA too, and races a lot of, uh, endurance races and also race for a team out of Florida for the, uh, SCCA runoffs.

We’re trying to qualify for that. So I try to still race as I believe till this point here this year, there’s four weekends I’ve been off. All the other weekends I’ve been on a racetrack. So I enjoyed a lot with the support of my family, right? Did you mention a championship or two? Oh yeah, and then, you know, with Rooster Hole, I was going to let you do that, talking about the history of Rooster Hole, right?

Then we got together in 2018, started campaigning at 240, one of the factory built race cars in the TC class, placed third in the championship there, won, yeah, won three or four races, and then in 2019, again with West Virginia on the [00:05:00] carb. One of the most beautiful paint schemes I’ve seen out there. I loved it.

And, uh, we won, I think, uh, nine out of fourteen races, something like that, and championship. And we got second in the, um, standings amongst, at the rating of all BMW drivers in the world. And Rooster Haul is a team, I believe, got third, so we won the championship in 19, and I’d won a previous, uh, championship in 2015 in Touring Car as well.

That’s kind of my racing background. It’s been my blood and my mom is here from Denmark watching this weekend and she still doesn’t understand what’s going on and how this thing happens and you know, what are all those buttons for on the steering wheels and you know, all that. So it’s fun to explain that to her.

She’s just watching it and all, but it’s a lot of fun to have her. My sister is here from Spain as well. So we have a whole family get together. My two kids are here watching as well.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s great. And I, I, hearing your origin story, what we’re going to talk about later makes a lot of sense, you know, when we talk about your, your longest drift, [00:06:00] if you’ve got rally, uh, rally sprint and rally X experience in your, it all

Todd Brown: comes

Crew Chief Brad: Who hasn’t?

I did.

Johan Schwarz: I was born and raised on a farm, so that’s also how I kept practice, bought old beat up cars on the harvested fields in the summer, set up a rally course, obviously, and my friend and I were timing each other, had a little in competition, and then when the winter came in, the little two acre pond that we had, we did the same thing, put studded tires in the front, ball tires in the back, and we had a blast oversteering the whole time with a front wheel drive car.

Crew Chief Eric: So that’s a great segue to Todd to talk about his motor sports background and the creation of Rooster Hall Racing, its history, you know, what’s in the name, the significance of Rooster.

Todd Brown: So mine goes back to age five or six as well. I was born in 62 and I woke up to cars in 1968. I can tell you, when I moved from Cincinnati, Ohio, where I grew up, to Virginia, where I spent the rest of my life, I can tell you every car on my [00:07:00] street, even today, and what year it was.

I had every Hot Wheels car made from 1968 to 1970. My parents knew that I was just this car nut. Car, car, car, car, car. So in 1971, my mother, she takes me to see this movie called Le Mans, with Steve McQueen. Um, Oh, this would be great for Todd. I think it was rated R, maybe. She takes me to the movie, we walk out of that, and all I want to do is race cars.

You know, at this point I’m eight or nine years old. The last thing my mother ever wanted her son to do. was race cars because in the movie they all crash and burn up. My mother did not see me race until I was 53 years old.

Oh man.

Todd Brown: And the only reason she came out is because my son was in the same race.

Moved forward many years. It was, I was 32 years old. I started going to the track at Summit Point. They called Friday at the track and I went there for five years and I became an instructor for eight and during that whole [00:08:00] time I was racing go karts like y’all on here. And then I made the decision to make the plunge into BMW club racing.

And I’ve been doing that now for 18 years, I guess, formally won a couple of national championships there. Although my son is still faster than I am.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s how you want it to be, right?

Todd Brown: Exactly. But that’s not the way it all is. And in the meantime, talked about this a little bit off a microphone, but my son Sean is one.

Twice the world championship in soapbox derby racing, which is a lot more car control than you would ever think Because you follow the crown of the road and you follow the cones and inch off the cones the entire way down the track And the world championships are a little different and there’s crosswinds and all kind of things But that was really neat ESPN had a documentary on us through that.

I guess this was about 789 years ago I was looking for a place where I could maybe expand my car collection because we had kind of grown out of our garage. I have five cars in a three car garage. [00:09:00] I was at a restaurant, saw this free real estate publication, and this shop was for sale. Forty minutes from my house, but 15 minutes from my wife’s parents house.

Hmm,

Todd Brown: and it was just weird enough that no one would buy it except for me maybe. It was a 5, 000 square foot garage with a 1, 200 square foot nice apartment on it.

Johan Schwarz: That’s every guy’s dream, right? Yeah.

Todd Brown: So this guy built this, he was a single guy, his girlfriend lived next door in the property next door, who happened to be a realtor, and he built this for his car collection and for his RV.

Unfortunately, he got cancer and died, and so we bought it from the estate from his girlfriend, the realtor. And she said, well, the name of the place is Rooster Hall. You can keep it. You can do whatever you want. Just wanted to let you know that. And I said, you know what? We’ll keep that name. Tip of the cap to him.

Three years later, or seven years ago, we decided to start a real race team. We [00:10:00] said, here we go. And you know, what are we going to name the team? And sorry for all the guys that name it after themselves. I wasn’t into that. Didn’t want Todd Brown Racing or TBR or whatever it might be. One of the guys on my team said, why don’t you call it Rooster Hall Racing?

I said, you know, that’s just wacky enough. That’s cool enough. We’ll make it around the rooster. You know, we got the biggest rooster in the paddock. That’s for darn sure. And on the side of

Crew Chief Eric: P. G. version of that. The P. G., that’s

Todd Brown: correct. That’s right. Listeners,

Crew Chief Eric: you can put that together yourselves. Yes.

Todd Brown: That’s the basic story on how Rooster Haul got started and how our racing deal got started.

I was the owner of the trailer. Before Johan came aboard, we had Anthony Magagnoli as a driver. And Anthony, we won crew of the year that year. The next year, with Johan, we won rookie of the year.

Johan Schwarz: No, that was Anthony.

Todd Brown: Oh, it was Anthony. Anthony won rookie of the year. Then we won crew of the year, the first year with Johan.

Sorry about that. And then [00:11:00] we won the championship. And then this year, I’m going to turn 60 years old this year. And I said, You know, I don’t have a whole lot of years left of high quality driving. Let’s do it, Johan. Let’s go to Sprint X. Went out and bought a GT4, M4 GT4. Ended up buying yet another, I had an M2 CSR, bought another one, another one of those when Colin Garrett’s family and Colin came to me, I know his father, known his father for 35 years.

He’s an up and coming NASCAR driver, and they said we’re looking for him to get more road course stuff, good marriage, and we’re sitting here right after Colin’s win here at VIR. Congratulations to Colin, by the way. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, great

Johan Schwarz: race.

Todd Brown: He’s a consummate professional, and he could really go places.

He’s only 21. Yeah, he’s fast. He’s got the pull. And he listens. Yeah. He listens to Vijay Mehrzaran, his coach, and to Johan, his coach here. He really absorbs everything they say. And that’s a true student.

Crew Chief Eric: So you guys are campaigning two cars, an M2 and [00:12:00] TCX, which is now currently, if you’ll, as we talked to Jim Jordan in a previous episode, is comprised mostly of BMWs, hoping to change that.

Right now it’s all BMWs.

Todd Brown: Right. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: He always puts an asterisk there. Yeah, he does. It’s going to change in the future. Yeah. We’re going to see how that goes, so we won’t talk about futures. And the second car is in Sprint X, where both of you switch off and drive the car in a 60 minute race. All GT4

Johan Schwarz: cars.

Yeah, all GT4. Which I believe they have 40 of this weekend.

Todd Brown: Yeah,

Johan Schwarz: 40. Big

Todd Brown: field. Man, popular class. For example, this evening, 4. 05pm, I will drive the first half, hand it over to Johan. Tomorrow, he will drive the first half, and hand it over to me.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, we’re looking forward to seeing how that race turns out.

Todd Brown: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: If you’re driving the first half, are other teams, I’m assuming it’s split up with, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but is it a pro am kind of series?

Todd Brown: This is interesting, and I’ll start it, he can finish it. We’re am am because of [00:13:00] our age Okay at a certain age. I don’t know. It’s 50 or 55. What is it 50 50 you get knocked down One rating one rating if you’re a silver pro when you pass 50, you’re gonna become a bronze If you’re a gold or platinum, you get knocked down, one.

Just because your reflexes, they say, aren’t as quick as they once were. It’s probably true. My son’s, again, probably quicker than mine. We can benefit from that in the AM side, because he was a pro. But technically is, technically is not now because we’re both bronze drivers.

Johan Schwarz: So we’ll be competing in the AM AM.

Then there’s the Pro AM championship, right, where there is a silver rated or higher together with a bronze rated. That’s the pro, and then the silver class, which is both silver drivers. So, so there’s in a sense three races within that race, all racing GT4 cars, but also having their own little internal battles in

Crew Chief Brad: there.

Our listeners are about to find out that Johan, you have two [00:14:00] records under your belt that we know of. Yeah. Um, well let’s start with the, probably the most famous one, which is your longest drift record. It’s in the Guinness Book of World Records. We looked it up, it was 8 hours, 232. 5 miles. Correct. Tell us about that, what led to you wanting to do that, other than just being a drifter in your, in your entire experience.

Tell us about the refueling, how did that go? We saw the videos, we saw, from our perspective, it looked kind of interesting, but Yeah. How is it from your perspective? The

Johan Schwarz: start of it was, I used to teach down at the BMW school down in Spartanburg, right next to the BMW factory. I was leading a class, during lunch somebody asked me, because we go to the skid pad and learn skid control, and if people are good at that, we also let them drift, you know, see how they can keep the car sideways.

So as instructors, we demonstrate that, and then we go out of the drift, and then it’s the student’s turn. So during lunch, this guy, and I wish I knew who it was, I remember who it was, because he’s the one that started all this. Really, he deserves a lot of credit. So, [00:15:00] um, he asked me, how long do you take a class?

I could go without spinning out in the drift. I was like, well, I don’t know. I’ve never tried. And then I went home that night to look at Guinness and see if there was a record for the longest drift. And there was, and I’m like, and I sent a email to Guinness about the rules for that, you know, what parameters we had.

And it said nothing about that the skid pad could be wet. You know, so I didn’t want to ask them, can the skid pad be wet? Will it still count? I read between the lines, I submitted for it, and that was in 2013. So I did that basically on my own, using the facility there, in the F10 BMW M5 back then, and no refueling, just filled it up.

And then we had a sponsor. I put sponsorships together that all went to charity, the BMW charity, conjunction with a golf tournament down there, and then the M school that’s down there. So I tried to create [00:16:00] that triangle of partners that were involved and went 51 miles and the internet blew up. We made our own little video about it.

It got over a million views. I remember coming out of the movie theater after the event and we went in to check how many views there was and it went up by a hundred thousand by every 10, 15 minutes because Yahoo sports. taking it in and other and BMW actually took notice to that all the attention. It was great.

It was fun to do. Didn’t think I was going to do it again. Then the new M5 comes out, which now is an all wheel drive car and the purest M owner. M enthusiast and M car can only be rear wheel drive. So then BMW corporate now took the opportunity to say, well, if you turn this knob in the car, you can go from all wheel drive to two wheel drive.

And if you want to, you can drift it for a long time. So Guinness now because of this wet record that I set back then, they now established, okay, we have a dry record and we have a wet [00:17:00] record. You have a window of eight hours to see how long you can drift. And basically. The clock starts and then it stops.

And then you can stop and change tires or fuel and eat lunch, whatever you want to do. But we wanted to make it continuous, just like the first record. And to make it rival, in order for us to continue drifting for 8 hours or 6 hours, whatever, we had to refuel. We had to basically refuel every hour and a half, every 45, hour, 45 minutes.

And so that was the rival component of it. So I go out, obviously put it in two wheel drive start and BMW’s goal was to beat the old record. Now Toyota had it, you know, so there was back and forth fun rivalry and they just wanted to beat it and say, okay, but I was, I was internally set on, prepared myself physically with all the right things to be in the car for eight hours.

But not dehydrate myself, you get the idea. Physically

Crew Chief Eric: or in the car. Correct.

Johan Schwarz: I go [00:18:00] out and I start drifting and we had two tanks in the car. The main tank which BMW comes with and then the tank on top of it which was the one we were going to refuel into and then pump from that tank into the main tank.

So in order for us not to have any Anything happened with the V Fuel in the beginning, we wanted to beat the record. We had now three hours worth of fuel and that would allow us now to go for the hundred miles. I go there and it gets, it gets a little monotonous at the time. Still have to throttle and steer all the time, but you know, I mean the concentration level.

So I actually had my phone hooked up to Bluetooth and, uh, made some phone calls. Some of the BMW folks that were involved, right, and it was so funny to hear them pick up the phone. Are you supposed to be drifting right now? So, uh, and I called the people that were involved in the previous events as sponsors because, you know, they kind of started all this and helped it, thanked them for that.

So, and then after the three hours, then that’s when the [00:19:00] excitement obviously started, you know, because During that time, up till the event, we had connected with a guy hanging out the window in the old F 10, right? There’s now a guy, his name was Matt Butts, and a guy called Matt Mullins was driving that fuel car, hanging out the window to connect.

You have to turn it half a turn to lock it in, then the fuel pump has to go on to transfer the fuel into the, uh, to my accelerator tank and then have to disconnect. But we come to find out in our practice that when I am doing that, to connect, I And I have to then increase the RPMs to keep the angle that makes the engine because there’s no air coming in, right?

So it’s very hard on the whole drivetrain and engine. I had to look at it, keep my eye on the oil temp and I knew when it was going to go into lip mode. If that thing goes into lip mode being connected, it’s like taking your foot off the gas and it was going to straighten up and Met, but that’s hanging there.

Yeah. Crush, you know, I mean

Crew Chief Brad: crushed. Yeah.

Johan Schwarz: He had, I don’t know what waiver he signed or . What attorney [00:20:00] signed off on this project back then and BM BMW say, yeah, go ahead and do that. It’s not dangerous at all. No, for sure. So he was certainly the guy that was gonna be the meat and sandwich. Right. So I had the authority to override whenever there was enough fuel in the car and we had to disconnect.

We did that five times throughout the process. Where two times we were just about to connect and we were starting to increase the temperature. I figured we could only stay connected for maybe 10 seconds. It was not worth the risk. So then we would in a sense not hook up and I would kind of increase my speed again to cool down the engine to go for another refuel.

And then at one point I would say maybe six hours in and the guy from Guinness, you know, he’s there counting laps, you know, he’s like. This is not, you know, I’ve used a guy in five minutes or something like that or watermelons. And so he’s like, okay. So I get the radio call from the BMW person and said, you know, you can stop now if you want.

We got the record. I said, you know what? I’m [00:21:00] out here for all eight hours. Sorry. You know, because we don’t know if this has got to be another opportunity. So I want to put the test to somebody to go out and beat it. So we stayed for eight hours, did the record and it also blew up. Up and now corporate obviously took it in and, and really made a big deal out of it.

I went to a dealership not too long ago and they’re still playing the same video you probably watched in the dealership and everybody that gets recruited into BMW on the mechanical side, when they go into training and come in the first time they show that video to, for them to get excited about the brand.

So it’s kind of neat to be part of that. And again, it was started by that guy that raised his hand in that class and said, how long do you think you could

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, and according to the video, you didn’t just beat the record. You annihilated it. Yeah, we did.

Todd Brown: Yeah, we did. And that was my goal. So a lot of folks know us.

Through that in a rooster haul because of Johan question. I get is Johan How in the world did you have to go to [00:22:00] the bathroom?

Johan Schwarz: I know Yeah, I get that and I do I get that all the time That is you know, that’s the one that’s on top of mind of everybody Right? And, uh, so they’re a little, you know, when they raise their hand, and I just say, just like the astronauts do it.

And then they can look it up on the internet how the astronauts do it. And that’s how I did it. And I did that all on my own because my goal was to be out there for eight hours. And he’s eating cookies and crackers. Yeah, well, I wasn’t, so my diet was obviously water to stay hydrated. And then I was eating what, uh, the bicyclist, you know, that does, uh, the Tour de France.

So, it was not a non solid diet, because the other one, I wasn’t quite born.

Crew Chief Eric: But you have another record under your belt, and we talked about this on a previous drive through. through news episode. And it’s very fortunate that we’re here talking to you at VIR today because you hold the record for the fastest lap in an [00:23:00] EV in the Tesla plan.

And we actually, again, we talked about this on a previous episode, and this was to take away the record from Porsche in the take hand. We found out that you were the driver of that vehicle. And we want to talk to you about that experience. When you think about driving the EVs, you know, the evolution as we call it, or the EV revolution, the future of racing with EVs, stuff like that.

So let’s get your take. on that hot lap here at V. I. R.

Johan Schwarz: There was a super exciting project. Carmine, which is, um, the guy that had the car and he’s got a shop here in North Carolina. Him and I got to be friends when I was doing some shock development for Ohlins for their club racing. And we met each other.

He had the BMW. I was test driving for Ohlins. And then we just stayed connected. Next thing you know, they put on the event here for, to set the, the record. And that was for the Grand Course. Yeah. Yeah. So that is kind of like the, the Nordschleife, right? Uh, for, for the U S car and driver is the one that comes in and does it all the time.

So our goal was to go in and [00:24:00] beat the Porsche record that had carbon brakes, right? That had really cool suspension. I believe they have a two speed transmission as well, so they can really work in the right torque range. And it was kind of a last minute deal. We didn’t really have any, we had 300 tread wear tires, so not nothing, not even 200, not even 200.

You did modify the

Crew Chief Eric: brakes

Johan Schwarz: Pads. Oh, okay. No, no. The calipers too? Not the calipers, but the rotors. Rotors, okay. But that does come on, Tesla does offer a carbon option. But other than that, the vehicle was stock. Completely stock. Wow. Yeah, completely stock. Really the only electrical vehicle I had driven was somebody I had instructed that got a Tesla, the non plaid, this is maybe five years ago.

He’s like, I want you to drive it, I want you to feel the acceleration. And I remember I punched out, he put it in ludicrous mode. I punched it and I really, I was like, I was taken back. The acceleration was amazing, right? Have you

Todd Brown: all been in Ludacris? Yeah. I have not, no. It is, it is life changing. [00:25:00] Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s like being in a top shelf dragster.

Almost, yeah. Yeah. And if

Todd Brown: you don’t put your head back, it’ll put it back

Johan Schwarz: for you. Oh, it’ll put it back. Right. I’m like, kind of excited about it, but also a little bit nervous. Am I gonna get that sensation out here at the track, especially with a thousand horsepower? on this plaid go out and run it kind of, you know, 5, 000 pounds.

I can feel it’s heavy. The brakes are working pretty good, but I am also feeling the pedal getting a little long because they’re generating some serious heat. And this is a dual motor

Crew Chief Eric: Tesla, right? So four wheel drive, basically.

Johan Schwarz: Yeah, I believe that has actually three motors. It has one for the front axle.

And two in the rear, one for each rear tire. Acting as a diff, basically. Correct. Yeah. And I mean, when I heard a thousand horsepower, right? I mean, it, it, that’s a, that’s a drag racer that sits there and lopes on the cam, right? Yeah. That has that kind of horsepower. Go out, kind of get used to it. I mean, I was amazed, 5, 000 pounds.

You know, it did very well. I got on the curbs, suspension absorbed that very well, too. You know, kind of [00:26:00] known, trying to see what ideal line, again, our goal was to beat the record. Kind of get an idea. The idea about fuel consumption, reading the display for when I have the power and when I’m overheating the battery, the conclusion was I basically had one lap with full power.

And then it starts going into where the battery heats up and all that. I still have amazing speed, but I will not be able to go faster. So it’s Everything you got on one lap. And then we had laid out logistically to go and charge the batteries in South Boston. There’s a supercharger there. So in between sessions, we boogied in there, sat there, you know, 40 minute, charge the thing up, go back again, set ourselves up, you know, slow lap out, get some heat in the tires, and then one hot lap and then cool it down and then back to the, so I basically had a total of five laps throughout that day, long

Crew Chief Eric: day for five laps,

Johan Schwarz: long day, but it was fun, right?

The whole logistic. The whole logistical component of it, of going to South Boston, being [00:27:00] back in time when we were up again and all that, was really fun. And if you see

Todd Brown: the video, I think it’s turn 9? No, it’s up to the S’s. Up to the S’s? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. He gets sideways. And his steering wheel is almost at full lock, and he comes back, and this car doesn’t have any aero.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, and that’s the funny part about when we reviewed the article, when it came out and everything, my, uh, my sister, who’s one of the other hosts on the drive thru, she goes, Did you see the part of the video where he almost bins it?

Johan Schwarz: I know. And so, the cool thing about this whole thing is, the lap before I did the faster lap, I’d already beaten the record, so I had that.

So I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna try to send it up through the S Send it. Yeah. And see what happens. And I obviously said it a little too hard, and I’m remembering when I got locked to one side, I’m like, I’m not sure how this is. Could be interesting. This could either go really viral or I’m gonna try to obviously keep it on track.

And then it goes the other, you know, [00:28:00] basically creates a tank slapper. Right. So when we look at the data from the other lap, I did lose about six or seven tenths by that. But then I gained up elsewhere because I was still like determined when I caught it. I’m like, I still got it. Let’s see what we got.

And then beat it on a little bit further on that lap. So that’s why that lap made it right. And obviously the whole exciting part that everybody has been emailing and texting me about is when I’m sideways. Did you see I still hit my apexes even though I was sideways?

Crew Chief Eric: It comes from drifting the BMW. So that said, I’ve also coached some HPD folks with Teslas.

I’ve driven one as well. I came away from the car going, It handles like a 911. That’s what I kept thinking. So I’m wondering if your impression was the same and what your thoughts are of the handling of the Tesla’s and do they have a Future in let’s say even amateur motorsports.

Johan Schwarz: Yeah, you know, I think you know a lot of manufacturers I mean, I think the statement the big statement is the GM, right?

What’s [00:29:00] that, you know in two or three years they got their goal is to be all electrical So the commitment is obviously there from the manufacturers as a purist fortunate enough to drive that Ford 944 that I drive an SCCA in the STU class and you know, it sits there and I the KM and doesn’t get to life before 6, 000 RPMs, right?

So I think those days are slowly going away where the electrical is going to take over and you see it in Europe, they now have the TC cars that are basically all there with electrical motors and. Going extremely fast. Formula

Crew Chief Brad: E.

Johan Schwarz: Formula E, you know, it will take maybe some time. You see the the two person drive, you know, where I think Hamilton owns a team and, you know, they race out in the desert, right?

Dakar, right? Yeah.

Todd Brown: Yeah. No, it’s not Dakar. It’s a, it’s an EV off road series. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m thinking about the Audi Dakar. Yeah.

Johan Schwarz: But I think that they also had a electrical vehicle that race in da car, right? Mm-Hmm. . So [00:30:00] it’s interesting that the ones that made the, uh, the name for the diesels, right. Which was Audi vw, and then they got a little trouble then, then they immediately went to the EV route.

Right. They had

Crew Chief Brad: a little bit of

Johan Schwarz: trouble. Yeah. Right. A little bit of trouble. As a matter of

Todd Brown: fact, there’s a great story behind that. Yeah. When, when you guys have a chance, so. Our car was sponsored by West Virginia University for two years. Dr. Scott Wayne is the head of the Formula SAE department. Each year, two students would come on to our team and be integrated, and we’d find them jobs in motorsports.

Integrated for the team throughout the season? Yeah. And it was a great program. It was awesome. Well, he was the one that found it out. Yeah. And I got the whole story directly from him. Yeah. That’s where Dieselgate

Crew Chief Eric: starts. That’s where it started. That’s where

Todd Brown: it started. And he started to prove how good clean diesel was.

And it kind of backfired.

Yeah, it’s a fun story. for another episode.

Johan Schwarz: It’s certainly a story, and maybe he even wants to tell [00:31:00] about this story. So,

Crew Chief Eric: let’s, let’s touch on one thing, Johan. So, the biggest drawback to the EVs right now is probably the weight, right? Weight and range, I mean. And I think the other thing I hear from a lot of people to your kind of underlying point about your 944, etc.,

is there’s no sound. You don’t get that loping, you don’t get that acceleration, that build up, it’s just power and plateau, right? That’s the thing. way right now. Are you sold yet? I mean,

Johan Schwarz: uh, you know, I, I would, and I’ve been thinking about this, especially if, so I go to Denmark once a year and racing the streets of Copenhagen and they had the electrical touring cars over there.

And I’m like, if there ever is an opportunity where that comes over here, I will try to see if I can’t get to drive one of those cars and be involved in that series. Because I think there’s such a push from the manufacturers to go that route. That you would have big support for that.

Todd Brown: You may have the hybrid version of racing, which is in a lot of forms now.

I mean, Formula 1 is in many respects hybrid. You look at Le Mans too, WEC, right? Yeah. So, you know, we’ll go [00:32:00] that route likely first before we’ll go all EV because you don’t want to see a car lightning fast at the beginning of the race and substantially slower You get into that conversation

Crew Chief Eric: about balance of power too, right?

How do you let that take hand against a Corvette, right? It just, it doesn’t work. It

Johan Schwarz: doesn’t. And what’s interesting is what I was impressed. I mean, the little whining and all that kind of was, it was pretty cool to be inside that whining and just hearing the air. But then I, uh, somebody took a video of the car coming by on the outside and all you hear is that wind moving and I thought that was actually a pretty cool sound because you don’t normally hear that because it’s overwhelmed by the engine.

Todd Brown: At the beginning of that video, he comes by, all you hear is this whoosh. It looks like the car’s in fast motion, like they sped up the film, but they didn’t. Yeah. It’s that blasted fast. We were

Johan Schwarz: going, I think, 155 or something like going into turn two, turn one, right? They can fly.

Crew Chief Brad: And then to that point, I think Tesla tried to start an electric series.

So they were looking for drivers a couple [00:33:00] of years ago to start an electric series. I don’t know about that. I know

Johan Schwarz: Jaguar made like a really sharp looking SUV that they were going to race as a high port series in conjunction with Formula E. Yeah. I don’t know how that was perceived or not. Yeah. Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: But moving on a little bit, you guys earlier joked that you have a combined experience of 114 years racing between the two of you.

Todd Brown: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, 114 years of life, of life, of age, of

Crew Chief Brad: racing, 114 years of age between you two. Right, right, right. So outside of age. Todd

Todd Brown: is 85. Todd is 85. So what we think, we’re not sure, but.

Just kind of putting two and two together, we think we may have that label here at the track. So again, another record. Yes, right. The oldest two drivers combined in SRO, in the United States, right?

Crew Chief Brad: So let’s talk about SRO and your experiences here. What drew you [00:34:00] to race with SRO? Why should more people look to join the SRO series?

Todd Brown: First of all, it’s sprint racing. That’s what

Crew Chief Eric: the SR stands for?

Todd Brown: No. It’s Stephane Rattel. Well, first of all, that’s where I cut my teeth, without question, in BMW Club Racing. We’ve had hour and a half races, but they’re normally 25 to 40 minutes. Let me tell you that’s enough to wear you out. Okay, but I believe from a fan’s point of view, it’s much better to watch a 40 minute race or maybe an hour as opposed to a four hour race.

You lose your attention a bit. I know I’m a giant motor. I’m famous for falling asleep in the middle of a NASCAR race and waking up either right before or right after it ended. I think the sprint side of things is very attractive to me and to the watching audience or listening audience perhaps.

Johan Schwarz: You know, also because, you know, there are two professional sports car series in the U.

S., right? There’s SRO and [00:35:00] there’s IMSA. And if you want to go into pro racing, there is one of those two to pick from. And SRO is catering a little more to make it, you know, if you can call it more cost effective. There is obviously no such thing as cheap racing, right? But it is a little more cost effective than to run IMSA because there’s no fuel stops.

But they still have the component of the endurance, but making a shorter race. So that’s why Todd and I are racing on a team together. We are a two driver team, but we don’t have to have all the fuel rigs, the manpower to fuel, the manpower to change tires and all that. So the cost is obviously not there, but the excitement of being two drivers in a car is there playing at, in a field where all the cars are, by definition should be equal, right?

That’s what makes it appealing. You know, it’s hard to find that anywhere else. So if you want to go longer races, then MCEL And when we

Todd Brown: started it, we started in touring car. Yeah. In TC and the [00:36:00] BMW M235, which became the M240. IR, R stands for racing factory race car. There was a place for that here. And there wasn’t a place for it in many other places, and that, I thought that was the best car for the money in the world.

Because, you know, my club race car, I’ve got a lot more money in that than I would have in the TC car, and it’s a 20 year old car. You pile money into these things, that’s what, that’s what it is.

Johan Schwarz: And then also the professional component, which the coverage of it, so that obviously, Uh, gave us some leverage and the exposure for Miss Virginia and exposing the team to the pro side because, you know, you go here and look in the paddock, right?

I mean, people are up on scales, the wheels are off, you see the string on there. So it really becomes competitive, not just on the track, but also in the garage, right? And when we got that competitive DNA in us, Hey, can we play at this field? And let’s see how I don’t like to lose it. Putt, putt, [00:37:00] exactly. You know,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s exactly.

And to your point, I know jokingly around the paddock, IMSA is referred to as an air quotes, the other series, but you know, there’s a lot of fanfare and a lot of pomp and circumstance when you go over there and it’s, you know, they draw huge crowds, a lot of it’s backed by, let’s say NASCAR and other places.

It’s owned by NASCAR. Yeah. Based on the tracks they go to, et cetera. But you come here and you, you quickly remember.

Todd Brown: It’s a little bit more grassroots, but not grassroots. Right,

Crew Chief Eric: exactly. It’s a beautiful blend of the two. And it’s enjoyable to watch you guys out there running together. The multi class racing, for me, is fantastic.

I’ve always enjoyed it. That’s what draws me to WEC and IMSA and everything. So, again, congratulations. And I’m a big IMSA

Todd Brown: fan. Yeah. I am. And, you know, I was going to run this next January in an LMP3 car. I was given great advice. Todd, if you’re going to do this, stop your sports car racing six months before and just do the LMP3.

Because the downforce cars, it’s a [00:38:00] completely different mindset. To relearn,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah.

Todd Brown: The faster you go, the more stick you have. And I did two test sessions with the LMP3. I spun five times here and at Road Atlanta when I was going around slow turns. Because you think it would have stick, and it doesn’t. Now it’s

Johan Schwarz: mechanical grip.

Yeah. You know, now it’s back to where it was before, with a, with a normal car, whereas in the fast corners, now you have the aero grip, so it’s that transition back and forth.

Todd Brown: So we, we decided to do this, and we may, we’re talking about it, we may do the, the series just the day before the 24, down there in Daytona next year, with the car that we have here.

Johan Schwarz: Yeah, with the Michelin Tire Challenge. Is

Todd Brown: that the Roar before the

Crew Chief Eric: 24? No, it’s the

Todd Brown: Michelin Tire Challenge. And

Crew Chief Eric: actually, I think that’s a great segue into talking about the future of Rooster Hall Racing. So, what does the next couple of years look like for you guys?

Todd Brown: That’s a great question. I just retired from my real job, if you will.[00:39:00]

I own an investment firm for

Johan Schwarz: And Todd was very good at it, so he could retire early. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: At 85 years old. Yeah.

Todd Brown: That’s the only way we do that math. So, it’s, it is an expensive sport. At a certain point you’ve got to treat it as a business. And if you can’t make money, or, not lose a lot, you might have to hang it up.

There’s a whole lot of teams that have come and gone, but we had to take a year off during COVID because we didn’t have sponsorship. Now we got sponsorship with Colin and his team and some stuff that we’ve got because I mean it cost and I’ll say it pretty openly. It costs about a quarter of a million dollars to run that TC car a year.

I’ve done pretty well in life, but I just can’t afford to spend a quarter of a million dollars every year on letting somebody else drive my car. And it’s about that same amount in my car. There’s a half a million dollars. These teams that have these GT [00:40:00] three cars, there’s some deep pockets somewhere because you know, there’s a million dollars a pop a car or more in some cases.

So this is a very expensive sport and it’s gotta be. Treat it as a business. And I think my goal is to do this until I’m 70 for 10 more years. And then we’ll see where it goes from there. You have to have goals in life. And that’s what drives me. You know, again, I’m 60 in a few months starting my professional racing career now.

Holy crap. That’s, that’s late in life. Now I’ve had a personal trainer for 12 years just for racing. She comes to my house. I have a gym in my home. She comes to my house and I used to go to Gold’s gym. When I retired, I put a gym in my house and she works my tail off. Now, could I eat a little bit better?

We all could, but I’m in pretty darn good shape for my age. You have to to stay up with these 20 some year olds. Again, our reflexes get a little slower. Muscle reaction gets a little slower. [00:41:00] I want to race for at least five more years and I wouldn’t mind 10 years. And then we’ll see where it goes from there.

We had three cars by the way, in 2019, and then one of our drivers had a very bad accident in a club race and had to retire from racing. So we went down to two. We now have two. I see us with three cars in the future, maybe four, but I will tell you at a certain level, it’s managing people and you’re not racing anymore.

You’re managing people and you got to make a decision. Do you want to be a manager of people or do you want to go race? There’s that balance there too. And how much money am I willing to put into the business out of my pocket that sponsorship may not cover? That’s a tough one.

Johan Schwarz: It is on that side of things, you know, with, with Todd, with four cars, when we were three cars, Todd wasn’t racing, I was driving for Todd in the TC.

So I was here managing people. Now Todd obviously wants to race, right? And [00:42:00] you can’t be Thinking about managing people when you’re out there driving. Todd needs to have fun, right? Otherwise it’s not fun.

Todd Brown: So, think about this. We’ve got 30 or 40 people out here because Colin Garrett, our TC driver, TCS driver, lives 15 minutes away.

And he’s backed by this military community and he’s all involved with that. And there’s a bunch of military owned companies that are here, represented by several people. So we have 30 or 40 people out there. So you’re running a team, you’re entertaining, you’re entertaining. You’re trying to get enough liquids in you and you’re driving and one person can only do but so much.

My wife, and this is very important, my wife couldn’t make it this weekend. She had some health issues she’s dealing with. She technically owns the team and without her, there’s no way I could do it without Michelle. She’s integral and I will tell you. There’s no big secret that Karen, Johan’s wife, is a big secret to his success.

Johan Schwarz: Yep. That woman behind a man.

Todd Brown: Yeah. And you know, my wife is one of the [00:43:00] few that come to the track every race. Club race, pro race, whatever. When she’s not there, everybody says, where’s Michelle? So, I count my blessings. I’m incredibly blessed to have a wife that not only Accepts what I do, but helps be part of this and she owns Rooster Hull Racing.

Crew Chief Eric: Johan, any records

Johan Schwarz: in your future that you want to break? It’s funny you should ask because somebody contacted me about combining my drifting and the EV side of things, you know, because that’s also held by a Porsche. So it would be fun to do. So we are working a little bit on doing that and finding the facility for that, which we have.

Now it’s just putting it all together. So you might say, I see an EV drifting record here, not within, yeah, too, too long.

Crew Chief Brad: I would ask Johan what his opinion is of Porsche, but I think we know. Yeah, I think we know the answer to that. What

Johan Schwarz: is what? Your opinion is of Porsche, but I think we know. Well, actually I drive one.

I love Porsches, [00:44:00] but I also love to keep their records. I have a Porsche GT4. Yeah, so, so,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah. Well that said, let’s get your thoughts on the reveal of the new BMW. Are you guys going to be upgrading vehicles next year now that we’ve seen it for the first time at EIR?

Todd Brown: Likely. I’ve been given advice to get two or three of them, but a couple hundred thousand dollars a pop, you know, that is not probably in the cards for that.

Crew Chief Eric: What’s the biggest draw? Do you think switching to the new car early on the AC?

Todd Brown: Well, yeah, maybe. We talked about that at length, actually. We’re behind the curve this year because we just got the car and we just took it to track immediately. And it’s taken us the third race weekend to figure it out. So, obviously, when you get a car and you get it ahead of time, and you get a chance to you know, work out the bugs and figure out what it likes.

And that’s really the key. What is the car like? Does it like more camber? Does it like more tow? Does it like more [00:45:00] cross? You know what it brings set up, spring set up, shine, all that, you know, and the car is in my opinion, somewhere between this car that we have now, the M4 GT4 and the now M4 GT3. It’s somewhere in the middle there.

It’s more of a race car. It appears to be more safe, which is even better. Even has a hatch in the roof to extract somebody in case of emergency. I think that’s important. And there’s

Johan Schwarz: also some front shims now, which makes it a lot more efficient.

Todd Brown: For our type of racing, Johan’s substantially taller than me.

So we have to pull the seat. The seat stays stationary in the GT4. The pedal box moves forward and back. On the new one, they have stops that you can put at different areas. So we put it full to the stop on the front for Johan, and full to the back wherever I want my stop to be. So it’s boom, boom. And now, [00:46:00] we have to write, we have to take white chalk and write, put lines in there and I gotta kinda pull it back to that.

You know, so this would be a lot easier.

Crew Chief Eric: I smirked when I heard about that particular feature because I thought about it and I said, go karts have had that for as long as I can remember. I

Johan Schwarz: know. The adjustable

Crew Chief Eric: pedal box, right?

Johan Schwarz: Exactly. So that has the same, but it’s a little, uh, where you can just use some stops with it.

I think it’s a good looking car. I’m not a big fan of big grilles on BMWs, but I think they did a good job. They’re growing on me, by the way. Yeah, they do.

Todd Brown: I think it’s the

Crew Chief Eric: liveries that help. When you see them in just plain dress, you’re just like,

Todd Brown: wow. Well, let me tell you, I just ordered a 2022 M4 Competition X Drive last week.

So, in black. No, no, no, in Dravet Gray, which is the coolest color in the world.

But

Todd Brown: it’s got the big grill. It’s a darker car, which kind of, you know, so a little bit. But when I first saw that grill, I thought it looked hideous. Somehow, it’s growing on me. I think the [00:47:00] GT3 probably is better. No, it’s, it’s, I can’t say completely attractive, but it’s really growing on me.

Oh, and this car, this new race car, is an automatic transmission, whereas the race car we have now is a dual clutch. So they’re going backwards in some respects, but they say it shifts faster. And the dual clutch does, which is hard to imagine.

Johan Schwarz: Well, this also shows you how far automatic transmissions have come, right?

I mean, when they’re shifting that quick and the durability and there’s less, you know, uh, mechanical components in there. So it makes it extremely durable that the 240 was also an automatic transmission. They made into a paddle shift and remember how durable that is. This

Todd Brown: is a straight six, three liter with 550 horsepower.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. And I believe they said for tuning wise, uh, or making changes on the fly, it can all be done. You need no connecting laptops or any of that stuff. Right, you can do it in the pits, not while you’re driving, but yeah. Yeah, of course, but you do it right there from inside the car. Yeah,

Johan Schwarz: which is pretty important.

And traction, traction control too. So, Todd, he told me about the [00:48:00] new M4, uh, xDrive that you bought. And I’m super excited, I can’t wait to drive it. But when he makes the phone call to me and says, Hey, I just bought a new GT4 M4. We’re going to drive it next year. Then I’m going to be really excited.

Crew Chief Eric: So on that note, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover this far?

Todd Brown: Number one, my wife without her, I wouldn’t be here without her support. We wouldn’t be here. I’m sorry. She couldn’t make it this weekend, but daggone it. She’s a big part of this. And to all our supporters who follow us, my daughter, I haven’t talked about her too much. She’s out in San Diego. She’s getting into the sport now at age 29, looking very much forward to that.

My personal selfish goal is that I can be on the track with my son and my daughter at the same time. Unfortunately, I lost my oldest daughter 13 years ago and she’ll never be replaced. My daughter is a, she’s got 20, 000 followers on Instagram. [00:49:00] She’s a bodybuilder. She was nationally ranked and a great soccer player.

And I think because she’s so coordinated and she’s an athlete, she’ll fit really well into this racing. I’ll tell you, it’s true. You have to be an athlete and you have to be coordinated to do this. You don’t, See uncoordinated people do this.

Crew Chief Eric: We emphasize all the time that sport is a real thing in motor sports.

Yes, it is. Not just driving around.

Todd Brown: I played college soccer. I know what sport is at the highest level. My daughter played for West Virginia University. Top 10 in the country. Athletics are athletics. This is sport. It’s a workout. And at the end of the half an hour run, when you’re giving it 100%, you get out of that car exhausted.

Exhausted.

Johan Schwarz: Our cockpit, we saw, you know, it’s 132 degrees. We sit with a helmet and a suit on. It’s certainly some And a lot of pressure. Yeah. And the

Todd Brown: air conditioner only works when we put the brakes on. Yeah. And

Johan Schwarz: we try to use the brakes as little as possible, right? Yeah. Because what’s that for? To slow you down.

Yeah. For me, it’s kind of [00:50:00] what I wanted to say what Todd said. You know, I have the family Family support and obviously I’m here because of Todd and the partnership that we have established since 2018. And friendship. Yeah, absolutely. We have a great friendship. And while you were talking, I realized your background is kind of like the same how you got involved.

It was all self propelled, right? We didn’t have a parent that she took you to Le Mans, but you remember the cars that are parked in the street. I remember, I could recognize all the cars that we were driven by and throughout life for me and for Todd, it sounds like we It was always a priority that we saw as, you know, when I went to college, I think I may have gone to two parties because I was always trying to find out where’s the race, where can I go, where can I meet people and stuff like that.

So I’m very fortunate and I hope we will do it some more. You

Todd Brown: either have a car gene or you don’t. Yeah. You guys obviously do. Yeah. We do. And most of our close friends do because of this wonderful sport we’re involved with.

Crew Chief Brad: Owner Todd [00:51:00] Brown began Rooster Hall racing as a way to enhance his hobby. Today, Rooster Hall offers customer support, transportation, and car building from club level to pro level racing.

Rooster Hall has had multiple national championships in club racing and three successful pro seasons from 2017 through 2019 with driver Johan Schwartz bringing home the SRO championships.

Crew Chief Eric: And to learn more about rooster hall racing, be sure to log on to www. roosterhallracing. com or follow them on social at rooster hall racing on Facebook and at rooster hall on Instagram.

I cannot thank both of you enough for coming on the show, sharing your stories, getting people to know rooster hall racing a little bit more intimately and a little bit more internally. We look forward to seeing what happens this year and next year. If you guys get a new car and best of luck throughout the weekend and throughout the You’ve got a new follower, a new fan

Crew Chief Brad: in me.

I’m all on board for Rooster Crawl. Thank you.

Todd Brown: We’re hopefully going to be on the podium [00:52:00] in about an hour. Absolutely. Thank you guys. I enjoyed it a lot.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, CrowdStrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www. sro motorsports. com Or take a shortcut to GT America dot us and be sure to follow them on social at GT underscore America on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT world.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at [00:53:00] 202 630 1770 or send us an email gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be [00:54:00] possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
  • 00:25 SRO Motorsports America Sponsorship
  • 01:01 Rooster Hall Racing Spotlight
  • 01:58 Interview with Johan Schwartz
  • 02:08 Johan’s Motorsport Journey
  • 06:34 Todd Brown’s Motorsport Background
  • 10:34 Rooster Hall Racing Achievements
  • 13:56 Johan’s Longest Drift Record
  • 22:53 Fastest Lap in a Tesla Plaid
  • 28:39 Handling Impressions of Tesla
  • 28:53 The Future of Electric Vehicles in Motorsports
  • 30:11 Dieselgate and Its Impact
  • 31:02 Challenges of Electric Vehicles
  • 33:54 The Appeal of SRO Racing
  • 38:54 Managing a Racing Team
  • 43:20 Future Plans and Personal Goals
  • 48:15 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Bonus Content

Learn More

Rooster Hall Racing Logo

To learn more about RHR be sure to logon www.roosterhallracing.com or follow them on @roosterhallracing on FB and @roosterhall on Instagram

Rooster Hall fields two cars in SRO: an M2 in the TCX class and a GT4 M4 in SprintX. Todd and Johan alternate stints in the 60-minute SprintX races. Both qualify as “bronze” drivers due to age, allowing them to compete in the AM-AM category – a clever way to stay competitive while embracing the realities of racing reflexes.

Guinness Glory: The Longest Drift Record

Johan holds the Guinness World Record for the longest drift: 232.5 miles over eight hours in a BMW M5. The feat required mid-drift refueling via a chase car, with a crew member hanging out the window to connect the fuel line. “I wanted to put the test to somebody to go out and beat it,” Johan said. The video went viral and became a staple of BMW’s brand storytelling.

Electrifying Speed: Fastest EV Lap at VIR

Johan also set the fastest EV lap at VIR’s Grand Course in a Tesla Model S Plaid. With minimal modifications – just upgraded brake pads and rotors – the car delivered a blistering lap that dethroned Porsche’s Taycan. The catch? The battery only allowed one hot lap per charge, requiring multiple trips to a nearby supercharger.

Despite the car’s 5,000-pound weight, Johan praised its handling and acceleration. “It’s life-changing,” he said of the Plaid’s ludicrous mode. Even when he got sideways through the S-curves, he kept hitting his apexes – thanks to years of drifting experience.

Mentorship and Forward Momentum

Rooster Hall Racing isn’t just about speed – it’s about mentorship. Rising NASCAR talent Colin Garrett joined the team to hone his road course skills, guided by Johan and coach Vijay Mehrzaran. Todd beams with pride at the team’s culture of listening, learning, and pushing boundaries.

Photo courtesy of: Andrew Benjack, SRO Motorsports, VIR 2022.

From soapbox derby to SprintX, from drifting records to EV lap times, Rooster Hall Racing proves that motorsports is as much about heart as horsepower. Whether it’s honoring a fallen car enthusiast with a team name or setting world records with a rooster on the hood, Todd and Johan embody the spirit of racing: bold, relentless, and always evolving.


The following content has been brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, Crowdstrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School.

Inside the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing: A Century of Speed, Grit, and Innovation

Nestled in the wooded hills of Pennsylvania, overlooking the historic Latimer Valley Fairgrounds, lies a motorsports time capsule: the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing (EMMR). This living museum doesn’t just preserve racing history – it roars it back to life. And guiding us through its treasures is Dirt Track Hall of Famer and former curator Lynn Paxton, whose own racing career spans over two decades and whose passion for motorsports history is as powerful as the engines he once piloted.

Photo courtesy Eastern Museum of Motor Racing

Born just four miles from Williams Grove Speedway, Lynn’s childhood was steeped in the sounds and sights of early dirt track racing. His father’s garage was the last stop before the track, and Lynn’s curiosity led him to pedal over to the Grove, where he fell in love with the sport. By 1961, he was behind the wheel in a mechanics race at Silver Springs, and by 1983, he had capped off a 23-year career by winning the National Open at the Grove.

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But Lynn’s story didn’t end at the checkered flag. His love for racing history led him to restore legendary cars, including one driven by Tommy Hinnershitz – a hero of his youth. That restoration sparked a deeper mission: to preserve the legacy of dirt track racing for future generations.

Synopsis

This episode comprises a live tour of the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing (EMMR), given by Lynn Paxton, a Dirt Track Hall of Famer and former museum curator. Highlights include the museum’s history, its vast collections such as the Chris Enomaki Collection, and notable photographic archives. Lynn shares personal stories about his racing career which began in 1961, his passion for historic cars, and the restoration of notable vehicles like Tommy Henderschütz’s car. The museum showcases a variety of historic race cars, uniforms, engines, and memorabilia from various eras of motorsports, emphasizing the importance of storytelling through these exhibits. The tour covers different sections of the museum, including early sprint cars, IndyCars, stock cars, drag cars, and even solar-powered vehicles. The museum is open to donations and volunteers, aiming to educate visitors on the rich history of motor racing.

  • This episode is a recording of a live tour of the EMMR, sit back and enjoy the memories, stories and guided behind the scenes of the Museum and 100 years of Dirt Track racing!

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts, but we’ve expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we want to share our stories with you. Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge and information through our podcast, Brake Fix.

Crew Chief Eric: The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing or EMMR for short, is built on a wooded hillside overlooking the historic Latimer Valley fairgrounds and racetrack. The 40 acre fairgrounds and track are restored to their original beauty, creating an atmosphere that makes the EMMR a living museum. Several times a year, the EMMR holds events where these historic cars can be seen on the track.

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is proud to be the home of the Chris Enomaki Collection, a noted motorsports journalist and editor of National Speed Sports News. The library contains the Central States Racing Association paperwork, [00:01:00] the racing columnist Bob Chirpening’s collection, the collection of noted historian Joe Heisler, while the Jerry Riegel Research Room contains the EMMR’s vast photographic collection.

There’s an estimated 20, 000 photographs in the collection, along with a vast variety of vehicles on display to include a great collection demonstrating the hundred years of Dirt Track racing. And with us for a special guided tour is Dirt Track Hall of Famer and former curator for the museum, Dr. J. J.

Lynn, tell us about your racing past. You were in the dirt overworld. Your car’s here on display. Yeah,

Lynn Paxton: I, I was born about four miles from Williams Grove, and my dad had the last garage and auto cart on the way to the Grove. As a boy growing up, I got to see a lot of the early racers from the early fifties coming through and stuff, so it interests me.

So I rode my bike over to Williams Grove to see what was going on, and I got hooked. What else can I say? I don’t know. My career started in [00:02:00] 1961. I got to run a mechanics race at Silver Springs. Once I drove one time I knew that’s what I wanted to do instead of just working on it. So we built an old car in 62 and then branched out in 63 a little bit and then moved up in 64 to the old Supers.

We just went with the flow up until Sprint cars came in in the late 60s. Pretty successful up until then. Last race I ran was 1983. I won the National Open at the Grove. So we had 23 years. Wow. A good career.

Crew Chief Eric: So what then changed? What inspired you to open this museum? I was

Lynn Paxton: always a history buff. Always loved it.

Even while I was racing, my fond memories were of Tommy Hend ships and the fifties when he was very dominant player. And then I got to be racing out in Ohio and all, all-star race or something. And I happened to run into an old Hillas car, which. I happened to recognize they were built in Allentown. And I went over and talked to the guy that had it out there.

He told me it was original to Tommy Henderschütz’s. Wow, [00:03:00] that would have been the car I watched. So I came home and called Henderschütz and asked him, Is it possible? He basically told me the same thing in reverse. And then he told me the one sure thing to look for was the horn steering. That he had bought out of the car, horn was killed in.

And if it was still in the car, it was the car. The next week we went out to Mansfield High to run an all star race. I went over and looked and sure enough it had no orange steering in it, so it was definitely the car. So I negotiated to buy the damn thing and restore it. I just like the old cars. Hillius was quite a mystery.

I have a pretty good register on a lot of the cars that were built in Allentown. He built roughly 200 cars in his career.

Crew Chief Eric: So here we stand amongst all these historic race cars. So why don’t you take us on a tour of the historic race

Lynn Paxton: cars, right, in this room right here, you talk about uniforms. You’ve got Ted Horn, national champion, Tommy Hendershits, Mario Andretti.

You’ve got some pretty dynamite uniforms hanging in here. [00:04:00] Johnny Thompson back there. These are all Hall of Famers. There’s Billy Pouch, Dave Blaney, Smokey Snellbaker. Here you’ve got Wolfgang Kinzer. You know, you can have quite a race by the people represented in this room. I get them to come in. I always try to hit them up for a uniform if we have them here.

Crew Chief Eric: So everything here is donated then?

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, yeah. Same way with the cars. Our signage is very good in our cars. The bottom row will tell you if it’s on loan from or donated by.

Crew Chief Eric: So here we are at the entryway, right? Kind of an eclectic blend of motorcycles.

Lynn Paxton: Our entry is in that kind of a jack of all trades out here.

I try to put something different in here every year. We have a sprint car, we have a midget motorcycle’s engine. The police motorcycle’s in there because Mike Worland was our police chief here and his son was killed with that bike. On a tour about 10 years ago, Mike just bought it from the police deal and [00:05:00] he asked if we could set it in here and I said, yeah, you know, that’s, that’s more of a little local flavor right here.

We do things like that. Like I said, we try to change things in this window tin entice people. ’cause this is always open. Yeah, you can always come in to here, we try to get you to sign in or what have you, and then go from here. Now, this area here, the Latimer Valley Fairgrounds, that preceded Williams Grove.

It was built in 1925 and actually went head to head with Williams Grove in 39. But these are all pictures as we restored the old fairgrounds. We did that first, before we built the museum. So the fairgrounds are restored back to the 20s and 30s. They’re going to be running cars tomorrow, down there, the ARDC reunion.

This area here, we honor somebody for the year. Stan Lovitz is a big supporter of ours from Hazleton. This was his car and his stuff. He raised a lot of money for us over the years. And in our Grand Marshal this year is Kenny Bren. Kenny’s 95 years old. And this was [00:06:00] one of his cars. He was in racing since 1953.

All phases, just a tremendous gentleman.

Crew Chief Eric: So this opening display here changes every year, you said? Do you have a plan?

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, this will change in December.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you have a plan on who’s going to be here next year? I

Lynn Paxton: do not know, I won’t know until I have an idea, but I don’t know until it goes in front of the board.

But we always change for our, uh, December, our Christmas deal. This is always changed for the next year. So this is our midget area. The first car we come on here is a three quarter midget. This was Mario Andretti’s very first open wheel ride. It’s a Hiligas car with a 603 Triumph motorcycle engine. Next car up, very early midget, 1937.

This has a Van Blerk single overhead cam boat motor. You gotta remember, the midgets use a smaller engine. And you’re gonna see about every different type of engine used at that cubic inch rate, okay? Now this next one’s the one I told you has this Alto outboard. And this was the 1941 [00:07:00] 3A Eastern Championship car.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the Gordon Racing team.

Lynn Paxton: Yes, and the name Gordon Racing, they named it after the street that they were on in Allentown. Now this is a 1937 Midget with a little V8 60. Like Henry put in his Fords from 37 to 40 as a economical piece. They weren’t worth a hoot. But in the Midgets, they were, they weren’t good.

This one’s kind of neat. It’s got BMW, World War II BMW motorcycle cylinders, and they made a block and crank back in the 40s. So it’s made much like a Volkswagen, okay. Fritz Meyer and Joe Gertler built the chassis.

Crew Chief Eric: So it’s actually two BMW. Yeah, yeah,

Lynn Paxton: yeah. They just made a common block. Now this has got a Ford tractor engine, little Fergie, which had the right cubic inch.

Of course, the next two are Offey powered in the early thirties. They, they needed a small engine. So they went to Miller. Miller had a straight eight 183 and he whacked. That half and [00:08:00] just use the front half of it became a 97 and then they got larger. But of course they set the standard for years and years.

That’s what the, yeah, the constant hot car. Like I said, that was 1950 championship car. And then the 11 car, that’s the car that Mario Andretti won three races in one day in this car right here.

Crew Chief Eric: And you guys call that the three in one midget.

Lynn Paxton: They call it all their stuff after that three and one, the Mataka brothers, because Mario won three races in one day.

Crew Chief Eric: He’s not a very big guy, you look at him. Mario!

Lynn Paxton: No, he wasn’t.

Crew Chief Eric: So tell us about Tommy’s garage here behind us.

Lynn Paxton: Tommy was seven time Eastern champion. When we did our deal here, Mario called him a giant, Chris Economy called him a star, A. J. Foyt called him his idol. So when you get those caliber of guys talking about Tommy Hendershits, that’s pretty good.

Now, here’s a picture of 1955. of Henderschütz’s garage. What we actually did is went down and pulled all this stuff out of his garage. Everything [00:09:00] works, too. The lathe and everything is operable. And the car, that’s the car I think I told you about. This is the car that I restored. It has the horn steering and stuff in it.

Crew Chief Eric: So as we see it here is exactly how you would have seen it when Tommy was using it at the original location.

Lynn Paxton: There you go. Right there. Very cool. You’re seeing everything right there. So this

Crew Chief Eric: predates when you started racing though, this is still the fifties. Oh my, yes. Oh

Lynn Paxton: yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: I wonder how difficult they were to drive.

Lynn Paxton: Well, I’ve driven a few of them. They were a handful. No protection, skinny ass tires. Back then it took a set of gonads to drive a race car. How much horsepower do you think these made back then? Oh, two hundred. That’s about what these put out. But at the time that was, that was good. And

Crew Chief Eric: probably about a thousand pounds, right?

So power to weight ratio. Uh,

Lynn Paxton: this is probably Closer to 13, 1400.

Crew Chief Eric: Still, that’s a good, good ratio. Oh yeah, oh

Lynn Paxton: yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Now this is all stuff that we got out of Tommy’s garage and this is all [00:10:00] information on Tommy. This is the guy that did a lot of the motorcycles and stuff. He built everything by hand.

He did a lot of things for us. Everybody likes to sit in that car. There’s Jack Hewitt. There’s Sammy. Doug Wolfgang. There’s Kinzer. Jeff Gordon, a young Jeff Gordon. You know, we’ve had a lot of people sitting in that car. Rico Abreu. And like I said, I had him in, he was sitting in it. This is the Chitwood car.

Actually it was Briggs Cunningham’s. Very first race car, the sports car guy. Money was no object with him, but he kind of fell in love with dirt track racing. And then later on, it was Chitwood car, actually his last sprint car, Chitwood ran until he kind of retired to run his thrill show, the trophies and all that stuff.

So all the horn stuff, Ted horn, I actually had the horn car here. And we rotate it out, but I left all the trophies and stuff. Horn was killed in 48. Up on top of that case is a tail off the car he was killed in. For all his trophies and stuff. We have the largest collection of Ted Horn stuff, the rest. And we [00:11:00] just got more in.

His National Championship shirt. Area right here is Ken Hickey. He was the offie man around here. That was a young Ken, and there he was, 87 years old, still working on him.

Crew Chief Eric: He’s a famed engine builder, he said. Yeah, yeah.

Lynn Paxton: He rebuilt the Oppie engines. He was from Ambler, and I don’t need to tell you where Ambler is.

You know where Ambler is. Matter of fact, this is one of the last engines he did. That’s a Ken Hickey fresh engine right there. We have this Edmunds midget. I like it because the last race it run, it got put away for 36 years. They just never ran it again, and then it’s lucky enough to buy the whole deal.

Yeah. And so it’s exactly the way it won this last race. And this is a

Crew Chief Eric: Volkswagen flat four powered midget car.

Lynn Paxton: Well, it has a Volkswagen in it, which is this is. And of course, this is the sesco flat four. Cesco’s usually were half a Chevy, but he wanted to make it lower. So this has got all Chevy parts in that Ron Hoddles built this out in Wisconsin.

And then [00:12:00] he had two left. So he brought one in and gave one to us.

Crew Chief Eric: So here on the left, it says Hershey stadium. Tell us about that. I don’t think a lot of people realize there was a racetrack at Hershey. Well,

Lynn Paxton: it was built where the Hershey stadium is would built for auto racing and sporting events. And these are all pictures, the first event there was an auto race, same week that Williams Grove opened, May of 1939.

So there’s a picture of them building it, and there it is finished. Of course now it’s concerts and football games and stuff. But at one time, the last race was held there I think in 1983. I got to run there and I won a few features there. Yep, a lot of people don’t know that. Here’s the horn tail, and here was the hub that the spindle broke in Horn’s car.

These goggles went with him on his last ride. Now, here we are at the very early sprint cars. This was called a Bobtail. In the twenties, this thing was unbeatable. John Gerber from down in Port Iowa. There’s John with his helmet, his goggles, and his bow tie. You notice he always wore a bow tie. [00:13:00] I wouldn’t call that much of a helmet.

I wouldn’t call that much of a race car, but it was light, apparently very quick. Yeah, he really went good with it. The car in here, that’s a dryer. It’s one of the first six dryers ever made. Pop started building cars in 1928. That car sat for 84 years in Davenport in the racing shop. Here’s pictures of it.

In October, we went out, and that’s the first time in 84 years it came out of the shop. Well, I have it all on video. Matter of fact, that’s his son. That’s John Gerber’s son, Jim. And he’s 87 years old right now.

Crew Chief Eric: So, is this one of the newest acquisitions in the museum then?

Lynn Paxton: Yes. Yes. This display just got put in, in the spring here.

And then all this stuff right here is stuff we brought home from out there, at the shop. That’s one of the first six built. He actually bought this car. He was running two of these. And he actually was running against this car. And then he ended up buying this because he wanted to make an Indy car. And this was going to be his [00:14:00] Indy car.

He lost Jimmy Snyder, who was supposed to be his driver. He was in the connecting rod business for the Model B Fords. And World War II came around and he got to working for the government stuff. So this thing just sat and sat and sat. So it’s kind of interesting that it stayed, but we were very thrilled to be able to go out and pick that up.

It’s a joint deal we did with the Sprint Car Hall of Fame in Knoxville. We did a display out there. And they have the car that won the opener to Grove, and we rotate displays. It’s better for us to work very well with them than we do. These are their early cars, 20s, okay? And then this car here would be from, actually, the 40s.

And it has a Ranger aircraft engine. It’s an 86, right? It’s an inline six. See the prop went over on here. That would top front

Crew Chief Eric: and

Lynn Paxton: you know, you got to flip it over

Crew Chief Eric: where the propeller is. Right,

Lynn Paxton: right. Thing looks heavy, but only weighed 375 pounds because it’s magnesium. It put out the same horsepower as [00:15:00] the 4, 000 Offenhauser.

But after World War II, they surplused these, you can buy them for 75 bucks. So if you were running IMCA or CSRA, there was no cubic inch limit. Shit, they were buying them and just running the crap out of them, you know? At that kind of money. Now, 3A, you couldn’t run them because of the cubic inch limit.

Crew Chief Eric: They were probably pretty high rev, being in a No,

Lynn Paxton: they were very low rev. Really? Yeah. They put their horsepower out at about 2800 RPMs. Now I asked a couple of the old guys that ran them, I said, how hard did you turn your engine? And the guy said, oh, I turned mine over 4, 000. Was it still, he said they were still strong, but he said, when I couldn’t see out of my goggles from the vibration, that it was too much.

That was the answer.

Crew Chief Eric: I love all the creative ways they did carburation on these motors. Nothing, nothing standard, it’s all very interesting. Well,

Lynn Paxton: it was all homemade, it was no, They finally started making aftermarket stuff for the bees because there was so much of it. But you’re right, this is a homemade for [00:16:00] three twos.

Actually in that one case, there was a set of hillborne injectors for one of these, which is very rare. This has got Solex carburetors on it. These are actually original to this car. The header and stuff, this thing ran a Ranger in it. You know, you looked at the Chitwood car back there with all the chrome and stuff on it.

Most of the cars of the 40s and stuff were just plain James. Painted like this, Ford wire wheels and stuff. Now the exotic cars were pretty like that. 80 percent of them were like this car here.

Crew Chief Eric: The number four car here from the 40s, kind of the tail end of that, we jump to the number 39. So have we moved from the 40s to the 50s?

Well,

Lynn Paxton: we’re actually going up to the 60s. The 50s, I had a car here, it had to leave. You’d have to put like the Miracle Power in here. Gotcha. Okay. In other words, 40s, early 50s. Yep. And then this would be 60s. But you do

Crew Chief Eric: see a radical jump in design from the Oh, absolutely. They got lower centers of gravity, Well,

Lynn Paxton: we’re gonna walk up here.

Now these cars [00:17:00] here would have won a wing or not. I didn’t put wings on them simply because you get to see a little bit better and my car They’re the Boots car. We let anybody who wants to get in and get in it.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct me if I’m wrong But when you kind of transition from these 40s Sprint cars to the 50s and 60s are more like the Indy cars of the time, if you kind of look at them in person, right?

Lynn Paxton: Well, you got to remember something. World War II. Most of the cars prior to World War II were kind of crude. There were some nice cars, but most of them were home built nothings, okay? All the racers went to World War II, and they learned how to work aluminum and use Zeus buttons. And thank God we’re still using surplus from World War II today.

And that’s what spawned racing. After World War II, all of a sudden, the cars, they started using the technology to build aircrafts. Zeus buttons, aluminum and stuff. And that’s when things

Crew Chief Eric: drastically changed.

Lynn Paxton: Absolutely. Why? Technology. Learning how to work aluminum.[00:18:00]

Well, yeah, but all I can tell you is there was a lot of experimentation around here on fuel. If you tell Hendershits, tell them the story about running a Model T, and they didn’t know anything about hopping the fuel up, and they heard that it used mothballs. So he said about, they bought a bunch of mothballs.

The problem was they were only going to put one in. One mechanic put one in, didn’t tell anybody. The other mechanic put one in, and he said, I put one in. He said, man, we took the lead, that thing was really hauling ass. And he said about halfway through the race it slowed down to a crawl. It burnt the thing up.

That experimentation went on for a long time. Talking about that, I could show you the horn pistons over here. He was the first one to experiment with magnesium pistons. They were so much lighter than aluminum that he could turn his engine 2, 000 RPMs more. And I have those, but he had to experiment with the fuel because he kept melting the tops of the pistons.

They weren’t as [00:19:00] strong as the aluminum. He entered into a lot of that too. Now, as far as World War II, you’re right. The Germans were far ahead of everybody as far as that technology. Let’s face it, that’s where the Volkswagen came from.

Crew Chief Eric: On a lot of these, you notice that there’s a lot of armature in the way of levers and things like that to move things around.

It’s all very crude and very simple because they’re race cars. How many of these are, let’s say, manual gearboxes? How many speed are they, and when did they transition to the more, like, power glide type

Lynn Paxton: transmission? There was a rule that they had to be able to back up and stuff, so they had old Ford transmissions in them.

But then finally it got to the point where they were just using them in and out. In other words, they’re just high gear. Got it. Like, if you come up to these, these all have quick changes, nothing but in and out direct drive.

Crew Chief Eric: So you took a couple laps to get up to speed then, to kind of set your pace, because you can’t just go at full power.

No, they would,

Lynn Paxton: they would, uh, no, they would push you off. And if you had heat in the motor Like my mechanic used to tell me, if you don’t have 140 degrees, I don’t care if the green flag’s out or what, you don’t [00:20:00] run the motor, you know, just to protect it. You know, Davey’s still a pretty sharp man, Davey Brown.

Crew Chief Eric: So you definitely see a drastic change in safety in this interior too.

Lynn Paxton: My first ride actually was in the car after this, the Cook car, and I think there’s a picture up front here of the start of the feature, and it’s right there. Here’s my very first sprint car ride. That’s the start of the feature at Allentown.

Wow. I’m in the 38 car. Clear out there.

Crew Chief Eric: Taking the high line.

Lynn Paxton: I didn’t want to, but that 24 car kind of came in and put me over the wall. That was the start. I was running super modifieds and stuff around here. But that was my first sprint car ride.

Crew Chief Eric: So what would you say after all your years of racing, what was your biggest oops moment?

Lynn Paxton: Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know. There was

Lynn Paxton: plenty of them. I can’t relate. Pick an oops moment out, uh, other than waking up in the hospital one morning and, uh, not know how I got there. I’ll tell you the story. It, I didn’t realize it, but I apparently [00:21:00] got hurt pretty bad at Hagerstown till I came to. I was in kind of intensive care.

There was two of us in there and I woke up and I, my hand was banished and I had a schmock on it, said Washington County. Well, I was smart enough to know that Washington County was the Hagerstown area, I wasn’t in Pennsylvania. The guy that was in the room with me, he started having a problem. So I, they had a button pinned there.

So I pushed the button, it’s three o’clock in the morning. Nurse comes in and said, are you all right? I said, I’m all right, but this guy’s having a problem. So the next thing I knew. There was people in there working on him and he was gone. Now, I got more questions than answers. I didn’t say a word while that was going on.

And they were taking him out and the last nurse was just getting ready to walk out. I said, ma’am, can I talk to you? She said, sure. I said, what am I doing? She said, don’t you know? I said, no. I said, I just basically woke up. She says, well, I don’t know. My shift changed at one o’clock and you were here. That was it.

She left. Needless to say, I wasn’t [00:22:00] going back to sleep. I’m trying to figure it all out. The next morning, there was a guy coming around selling crap out of a cart. Newspapers and stuff. So I bought a newspaper, went to the racing deal, and there I found out exactly what had happened. I read it in the newspaper.

About a half hour later, the promoter and my wife and the doctor came walking in, and the doctor said, do you remember? I didn’t, but I told him exactly what the newspaper said, and that got me out of the hospital. Probably shouldn’t have because if I’d lean over I’d fall it screwed up my

Crew Chief Brad: Bell helmet

Lynn Paxton: at the time it was as good as it was The problem is once you get your bell wrong once the next ones you get knocked out a whole lot quicker It’s just like quarterbacks.

That’s why you had a lot of guys retired early because Blow to the head, be a headache to you. But a guy that’s had a lot of blows to the head, it can mean paralysis. It can mean every, I don’t know how we get off on that tangent, but

Crew Chief Eric: well, let’s go back to your timeline a little bit. So [00:23:00] you started in the early sixties and you ran all the way up through

Lynn Paxton: 1983.

Well, I won the national open. That’s the last race I ran. I actually won the national open in this car in 1982. It’s restored. This car here, sitting here, we left the wing off and I have the nerf bar off. Anybody who wants to sit in that car is welcome to get in it. So how many championships under your belt?

I don’t know exactly. 9, 10, 11, when I range somewhere.

Crew Chief Eric: So as we get to the early 80s car, this is more like what people are accustomed to seeing, like the World of Outlaws. Well,

Lynn Paxton: well, yes. This, of course, was Steve Kinzer was the multi time World of Outlaws champion. And I like this car. Cause it’s not restored.

It’s all original and it’s just the way he wants Syracuse in 88. So this is covered pretty neat. Then we have a Greg Hodnett’s car. Uh, Greg, of course got killed a few years ago and we did a special display of his cars. We have four of them here.

Crew Chief Eric: Coming up through the era of non aero cars to basically aero cars.

How [00:24:00] did the racing improve? Did you like it better? The more aero they got added, or did you like it in the good? I

Lynn Paxton: think the racing was better without the wings. So. Just by adding a wing and you can gain two seconds a lap just by putting the foil on. It just made it racing so much faster and it made it safer.

The wings would not let the car do anything radical after the wings gone. Yes, I’ve been upside down both ways and that big old thing right there is just like a cushion. I said, one time I hit, I could hear the air going out of the wing. Of course, the guy said, you still got a brain injury, you know, but it’s true.

You could,

Crew Chief Eric: you could hear that. Well, we all got brain injuries, right? We’re race car drivers. I think you’re right. We started with that from the beginning. I

Lynn Paxton: think you’re right.

Crew Chief Eric: So, as you kind of progress here, this takes us into another part of the museum.

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, this is Sprint Car 101, from the very early, boom, boom, boom.

You can get a very good idea of the changes. Now I’m not saying I have every change exactly, but I try to keep it.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a good [00:25:00] summary of a hundred years of Sprint Cars.

Lynn Paxton: Yes, yes. This is car Freddie Raymer, won a lot of races in. Of course, young Freddie’s winning now, the boy. But this was the old man. This was actually the first car Hamill donated to us.

We have another one over in our storage unit. And this was Greg Hodnett’s car and Raymer. Actually, one in this car, too. Kenny Jacobs drove this. And this is the Hodnett car, the Apple Chevrolet car.

Crew Chief Eric: So did you ever run any late models or anything like that? Yeah. Yeah? What do you think of those compared to the Sprinters?

Lynn Paxton: I can’t speak on today’s late models. They’re such unbelievable. The stuff that we ran were just 55, 57 Chevys, you know, basically with a good motor in. It’s hard to say. I used to do double duty. Run both divisions. And it was at that point, it wasn’t hard, probably harder to do now.

Crew Chief Eric: Probably felt safer in a late model though.

Right? Overall, you’re in a bigger,

Lynn Paxton: if you worry about safety, then you better not get in one. I mean, you don’t want to climb in something that you think [00:26:00] you’re going to get hurt in, but if you think you’re going to get hurt, even goes through your mind, you better not get in one hurt is something that’s always going to happen to somebody else.

That is the mentality that you have to have. It’s part of the game sometimes.

Crew Chief Eric: I do notice that as you get further down in the transition of the sprint cars, a lot of things become more and more inboard. More center of gravity type of manipulation here. The brakes are inboard compared to being on the outside of the car, things like that.

Lynn Paxton: See the tether on the steering arm right there? And that’s all because a goldbrick radio strike came in and that’s what killed him. It wasn’t a bad accident, it’s just he got pierced. So, they started doing things like that, so the pieces didn’t fly.

Crew Chief Eric: The old cars, 200 horsepower or so, and then obviously horsepower increases.

Yeah. When we’re standing here with

Lynn Paxton: these. Come

Crew Chief Eric: on over here. How much are these making?

Lynn Paxton: 700, let’s say? Oh, more than that. This is our engine wall. That’s Henry Ford and the mass production of the Model T. Built 15 million of them between [00:27:00] 1908 1927. Now here’s 100 years. Here’s a small block Chevy, 8 900 horse power.

This is what your basic engine today is. So you’re looking at 100 years. 20 horse power, 8 900 horse power. So here, Model T, there’s the Model T rocker arm, Model T dual overhead cam. This is interesting. Frontenac was the one that built that for the forge, you know, Model T. That’s

Crew Chief Eric: a mechanical turbo?

Lynn Paxton: No, this is a magneto.

Crew Chief Eric: Ah.

Lynn Paxton: And a water pump.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay.

Lynn Paxton: Now you’re looking at crude here, don’t get, don’t, you know, you, you know, what you see is what you get here. But what a lot of people don’t know who Frontenac was. Frontenac was the Chevrolet brothers. They had already lost their name to Durant and General Motors. The best Ford speed equipment built for a Ford in the late 20s was built for the Chevrolet brothers.

A lot of people don’t know that, but that’s a fact. You were looking at the solar car. Well, this is the chassis, and of course there’s the body. It doesn’t look right sitting here amongst these old engines, but it’s the only place I had to put it. [00:28:00] I stuck it in here. The colleges, once a year, would race a solar car.

This one raced from St. Louis to LA, I think in 99. Tells you that on the back of it. But they built it and raced it.

Crew Chief Eric: How fast would it go?

Lynn Paxton: 60, 70 mile an hour. That’s quick for a solar powered car. If the sun was out bright. Now I know one thing, those are all solar panels. And we let that thing sit outside.

You go to pick it up, you got to watch. It gets hot. It’ll bite you. Yeah. But then you look at the bobtail, the Gerber, that’s that 490 Chevy that he patterned a single overhead cam for. His stuff was crude, but He put that stuff together and went out and ran with the Offenhausers, the big money stuff, you know, that was the Dave and Goliath.

And his stuff was that way. He just always did it that way. Then you have the Model A, and you do the same thing up to the dual overhead cam. Then the Flatheads, and the Hudsons, and the Buicks, and the Oldsmobiles. Flathead, the Arden Flathead, Ford, Marine Engine. [00:29:00] This is the very first Chevy V8 55. That’s what came in the Corvette, right?

No, they were in the Chevrolet. They did put them in the Corvettes, but not until later on. Actually, in 55, the first ones were all sixes. They actually built a V8 in the late teens. It wasn’t as successful as this one was, you know. And there’s 65 years of small block Chevy from here to that.

Crew Chief Eric: Very

Lynn Paxton: cool. This 1, the all aluminum big block, that’s what we ran in my car.

And then Yanko bought that from General Motors. Same motor, same part number. The only thing, Yanko put his name on the front of it. And then I ran his motors until, uh, he got killed in a, uh, plane crash. So that ended our association. That was 1983.

Crew Chief Eric: So the room we’re standing in here is, now we transition to drag cars.

Drag

Lynn Paxton: cars, yeah. Like this Chevelle right here, this is all fiberglass. Yeah. But you look at it, there’s no engine in the front, got a mid engine HEMI. It’s really a beautiful car. You know, it’s home built. Then we have Stiles [00:30:00] performance, the Hemi drag car, and there’s another Mopar over there. Then we have, of course, Bruce Larson’s match race car here.

They put a century car down in the Smithsonian. This case here is all on Bruce. Then we have the Linwood dragster. This is a Linwood chassis too, an altered, the little altered Bantam. It’s a Jersey Jimmy. It originally had a six cylinder Jimmy engine. Then they put the straight A Buick, and then the last they ran it with that Aston Martin.

Now you talk about light, 900 pounds, that thing is light.

Crew Chief Eric: I love the Aston Martin badge on the front on the grill, that’s great.

Lynn Paxton: Now do you want to walk upstairs? Sure. Okay, let’s go, we’ll go up the elevator.

Here’s the original building that we were just in. Okay, and there’s the road down and the racetrack is down below. Like I said, we’re going to be running the cars tomorrow.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you guys televising the races at all? No. Or is anybody recording them or anything?

Lynn Paxton: [00:31:00] Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. This is basically our stock car area.

We all started with the old coupes like that, with the flathead and then the overhead. And then they started cutting the cars up. They called them bugs. And then the bodies were getting hard to come by, so they called them super modifieds. And that’s what these two are. They didn’t need a body. You just wrapped aluminum around.

They had a 90 inch wheelbase, 30 inch roll cage. And that was it. And then from this, then you went sprint car race and our stock car race. That’s kind of how things went. Of course, here were two Redding stock cars, the Gerhardt number five and the Johnny Botts number two. Now, after Bazzi was killed, I did run this car, and I ran the second car for Gerhardt several times.

When our sprint car season would close, we’d get out and run Redding, run Heavies.

Crew Chief Eric: If I’m not incorrect, the back end of that is a Pinto, and this one looks like part of a Pacer?

Lynn Paxton: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Lynn Paxton: Gremlin. Pintos, Vegas, they were the three. They just used body panels and [00:32:00]

Crew Chief Eric: Nobody wanted them for

Lynn Paxton: anything else, right?

Well, now try to find them in a junkyard. We built this in 2000 and the reason that it’s two story is we got into bedrock back here. We didn’t go far, so we decided to raise and then build off the next level. So that’s why you see what you see. It just keeps going. Yeah, this just came in. This was Charlie Wehrman’s late model.

When I started running late models, I ran against Charlie and he won multi time championships down in Beltsville. He ran dirt and pavement both with this car. And Beltsville and Manassas, Virginia. He was track champion there. Now there he was with his 56. That’s when I ran against him, that’s what I ran against.

This is one of our Grand National cars. We have some more over in the other shed. This is a car that, yes, Elliot, there he was flipping it at Talladega. That is this car.

Crew Chief Eric: Looks like you have some bikes, too.

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, Bowling Green Speedway was around below York and this is the only car that ran Bowling Green still exists.

Let me show you what it [00:33:00] looked like. Yeah, it’s a pile of dirt. He went in, yeah, he went in the side of a building and it was laying in a dirt floor. Also, if you see the, Other Gary car over there. If you go look at that, both of these cars should never have been fixed. The time and effort they went to put them back together is unbelievable.

It’s dedication. This is Ray Tilley’s. Now that would be a good candidate down there right near the 39. Was down there, but we did a special tribute to the owner of the car here and we brought that one in Andretti car upstairs. But this was Ray Tilley. He was about unbeatable with Bud Grimm Ford. This we built in 2011.

That was the car Mario won his very first sprint car race in, out at Salem, Indiana in 1964.

Crew Chief Eric: Has Mario ever come down to the museum?

Lynn Paxton: He is scheduled to be here. He sent us money for a block and stuff, and we have a wall, but we honored him last year, but he has not made it yet. His neighbors all have, but [00:34:00] he has not.

Now this right here is our Bonneville stuff. That bike set records at Bonneville. Bonneville. That’s a tire blown at 400 mile an hour and it held air, thank God. Didn’t kill the guy.

Crew Chief Eric: Have you even got a snowmobile over there?

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, well, AMF, where they build Harleys, AMF owned it. A bunch of us in the wintertime, we signed on and raced snowmobiles in the wintertime all over the country.

Bruce Larson, me. Bob Scholle, Mitch Smith, and Smokey Snellbaker. We all raced motorcycles, er, snowmobiles too. Gettysburg Region, this is their home base too, so we let them have their car in there.

Crew Chief Eric: Looks like you guys have a library as well. Yes, yes.

Lynn Paxton: Steve Bubb’s our librarian. Steve just went in there, he’s always working in there.

That’s Steve in there. He’s our resident expert. When we can’t find anything, we talk to Steve. Do you guys

Crew Chief Eric: take donations for the library? Oh,

Lynn Paxton: sure. It’s stuff coming in all the time. You’ll see when we go over in the new place over here, there’s stuff that they just haven’t [00:35:00] been able to look through. Well, let’s keep

Crew Chief Eric: going.

Lynn Paxton: That’s on the Altoona board speedways. The board speedways were the super speedways back in the teens and the 20s. They were running 140 mile an hour on the boards, and they weren’t running 100 in India. So that’s similar to like the cyclodromes,

Crew Chief Eric: where they did the

Lynn Paxton: Cyclodromes were built just for bicycle racing, okay.

These were actually built for cars. autos and stuff. They were anywhere from a half mile to two miles. Wow.

Crew Chief Eric: All made out of wood.

Lynn Paxton: All made out of wood. Yeah. This is our IndyCar area. That was the start of the first race at Indy. You see it was mostly stripped down stock cars. The winner was Ray Heroon in that 32 back there.

It wasn’t until the 20s when Miller and Duesenberg started building. This is a Miller from the 20s. When they started going away from just the stock chassis to building special built cars. These are the original doors from Indy. They were taken down in 1985. And that’s the last dirt car to run at Indy, right there.

1956. And this [00:36:00] car was a Curtis. And I’m sorry to say it killed three drivers in four years. Killed Dick Linder, Van Johnson, and Hugh Randall. Here’s, uh, That’s Stick Linder, that was Gus’s brother that I raced with. He went over the wall at Trenton. The car wasn’t hurt bad, but it killed him. And there he was going over the wall.

Then they put Van in it. That was a Langhorn, he won that day. There he was at the Grove. The throttle stuck in bars of the car and he got killed. At the Williams Grove. Killed a driver, won a race, killed a driver. And then two years later, that’s Hugh Randall. He got killed at Langhorn in it. Now, this is kind of interesting.

Al Keller drove the car at Indy. Now, he got killed in 1960, not in this car. He had a young daughter. She grew up, moved out to Phoenix and married a Bush. His grandsons, Kyle and Kurt Bush. Now, this is kind of a racing shop. There’s all kind of stuff in there that tells a lot of stories. And also, we use the shop.

That was Mario’s pit board when he ran Langhorn [00:37:00] for the first time right there. Tommy gave us that. That’s Thompson right there in a Dr. Saborian car.

Crew Chief Eric: I love how original a lot of these pieces are. You go to some museums and everything’s fully restored and just beautiful and shiny.

Lynn Paxton: Now, if I had my choice, if we get it in and I don’t care if it’s shop worn, I’d rather see the original piece.

It’s just like that one motorcycle, that hill climber back there. 1936 National Champion, just, it’s so crude, it’s so neat. I think it’s really neat. Now this is one of Mario’s cars, C3 in 1. The Metaka owned it, and they carried that on. But here’s Mario when it was a Dean Van Lines car. Now this car, it was bought out of the Metaka estate.

That’s what it looked like. Now A. J. Watson built that car. That’s Champ’s dirt car. Here’s the baby Bose. This ran Indy. It also won the Indy race at DeGrove in 1950 with Troy Ruttman in it. In 49, Tommy drove. I think Tommy got a fifth with it at DeGrove. There’s Rutman, he ran it also. [00:38:00] There’s uh, Cosworth, actually Al Unser Jr.

That was a block he won Indy with. We got a little of everything. Here we’ll walk out here. That’s Maguire, Andretti, and Foyt’s around the other side.

More displays in this building. It just keeps going. You’re going to see. There’s stuff coming in that hasn’t been sorted yet. So this is the

Crew Chief Eric: prep area, yeah.

Lynn Paxton: Yeah, and we have cars and we have stuff back over there. And then we have another. 50 100 building over in the next property, and there’s about 16 cars over there, but I can’t take you over there because we don’t have an occupancy permit for that yet.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re still acquiring cars from all over the country, right? Or are most of these just east of the Mississippi?

Lynn Paxton: Our interest is east. We don’t want a car that has no history in this area. So we would probably turn something like that down. But, I don’t care where it’s from, if it did well here in the East, that’s, that’s our realm of responsibility.

Most of the [00:39:00] stuff is East.

Crew Chief Eric: So have any of the cars from here, as you said, they go on loan to other locations and back and forth? Yeah, well, Sprint

Lynn Paxton: Car Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Iowa, Speedy Bill’s Place.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you guys do anything with the, uh, IMRRC up in Watkins Glen? International Motor Research? Yes,

Lynn Paxton: that’s more of an informational thing with them.

They’re always interested in what we have. We share documents with them. No,

Crew Chief Eric: this is very cool. So this is pretty much where the tour stops, right? Pretty much. As a caretaker, as a docent for the museum, for those people that are interested in coming out, what are kind of the rules, the fees, the times you can be here, things like that?

Well, we’re

Lynn Paxton: free. There is no charge. We accept donation. We’re open Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, 10 to four.

Crew Chief Brad: Do you have a lot of high schools that bring kids in to check this out? Not a

Lynn Paxton: lot. I’ve had more, but Bermuda Springs, my. Daughter’s. The teacher there, she usually wants a year, brings a class over and there’s times that we’ll take a car over there too and do just make

Crew Chief Brad: to go to [00:40:00] Gettysburg and to come here.

If you’ve got a book team,

Lynn Paxton: new Oxford, same thing. You know, we’re open to any organization that wants to come. I’ll tell you what we do get. We get a lot of special need people. They’ll bring a bus here. They enjoy walking around and they use this place quite a bit. Because they can go have a little lunch down here in the picnic tables and what have you.

We’re interested in kids. That’s why we have Pine Box Derby. We’ve got cars for them to sit in. You know, a lot of museums shun the kids. We don’t. We give them race cars and stuff. They’ll show up with their grandparents, with their neighbors, as they enjoyed. The kids are the key to the whole thing. You can’t run them off.

Yeah, every once in a while you get one that’s a little rowdy that you gotta pay attention to. You know, you try to explain it to whoever’s with them. Say, look, there’s certain things. It’s just like, we have cars on loan. What I have to do is, I have to protect that stuff. Yeah, that’s true. [00:41:00] Everybody here is a volunteer.

There’s nobody paid here. Most of the time you have volunteers like that. Their interests are such that they care, you know, and that’s the main thing.

Crew Chief Eric: And I saw the donation box up front. Obviously you guys take donations as part of the exhibits for the museum. But are there other fundraising ways that people can contribute to the museum?

Lynn Paxton: We have blocks that we sell on the wall where people want to memorialize certain people. As a matter of fact, I said Mario and his wife, before she passed away, bought a block on our walls. So, oh, there’s lots of ways. We do raffles and have sales too. Mike, the guy that was running around blowing up the tires, Mike has charge of our raffles and stuff.

And actually, Mike, as of right now, I’m not the curator anymore. Mike is. I resigned. Less past month, but I agreed to do this interview. So I said I would do it and explain that we

Crew Chief Eric: appreciate that. So in closing any like shout outs, promotions or anything else you’d like to share that people should know [00:42:00] about?

Lynn Paxton: Well, it’s just Our website lets you know we have a schedule for the year that we go to different racetracks and do different things here and uh, we’ll be operating right up. I know in December our open house is I think the first Sunday in, in December. And our subject matter is going to be, uh, Bobby Gerhart and Billy Gerhart.

I race with Bobbies. Of course, Bobby won Daytona seven or eight, maybe nine times. And Billy was his mechanic and brother and they got some great stories to tell. I’m going to try to get Davey Brown to come over too. He was a mechanic back then. So yeah, we’ve got something going on all the time through the winter, January through when we opened the beginning of April.

Thursday night we work, we have a work party. So anybody that wants to come out and have a good time, six to nine is our normal work party. It’s not all work, it’s a lot of fun too.

Crew Chief Eric: To learn more about the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, be sure to look them up on Facebook at Eastern Museum of Motor Racing or visit their [00:43:00] website www.

emmr. org. The museum also needs your help and they are always looking for volunteers, so stop by when you have the chance. The museum is open to the public April through November on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. From 10 to 4 p. m. Well, Len, I can’t thank you enough for doing this for us, taking us on this tour, telling us this story.

And the importance of this is that museums are more than just a bunch of stuff sitting around and people come and look at cars, or especially race cars are more than just objects going around in a circle to your point in which you’ve been telling us this entire time is each one of these pieces from the smallest one to the biggest car yet has a story behind it.

And that’s super important to share. We

Lynn Paxton: don’t put things up to fill a hole. It has to tell a story. Because I get people that want to donate us something because it’s a beautiful race car. And my first question, what’s the history? Well, I don’t know, but it’s a pretty race car. I said, I have no interest.

But it’s pretty. I said, pretty has very little to do with it. Some of the neatest stuff we have is ugly as a sin. Some people think it [00:44:00] has to be pretty to be in a museum. We’re not that way. If it tells a story, then it’s a new museum piece.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, check us out You can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

[00:45:00] For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Gran Touring Motorsports
  • 00:22 Exploring the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing
  • 01:24 A Conversation with Lynn Paxton
  • 03:44 Historic Race Cars and Memorabilia
  • 05:19 The Latimer Valley Fairgrounds and Annual Events
  • 06:25 Midget Cars and Their Engines
  • 08:31 Tommy Hinnershitz’s Legacy
  • 12:44 Early Sprint Cars and Racing Innovations
  • 20:08 Personal Racing Stories and Safety Evolution
  • 23:47 Greg Hodnett’s Legacy
  • 23:56 Evolution of Sprint Cars
  • 25:02 Freddie Raymer’s Car
  • 25:26 Late Model Racing Insights
  • 26:13 Advancements in Sprint Car Design
  • 26:50 Engine Wall: 100 Years of Progress
  • 27:50 Solar Car and Historical Engines
  • 29:42 Drag Cars and Racing History
  • 31:02 Stock Car Evolution
  • 35:27 IndyCar and Tragic Histories
  • 39:23 Museum Operations and Community Engagement
  • 42:52 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Learn More

Located at 100 Baltimore Rd, York Springs, PA 17372

  • Museum Hours: April-November; Friday, Saturday & Sunday – 10am-4pm
  • December-March; Friday – 10am-4pm 
  • Admission Fee: FREE, donations welcomed.

Volunteers Needed at the Museum… The EMMR Needs Your Help! They are looking for volunteers to help staff the museum. Please email admin@emmr.org if you are interested in helping!

To learn more about the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, be sure to look them up on FB at @EasternMuseumofMotorRacing or visit their website www.emmr.org – The museum also needs your help and are looking for volunteers so stop by when you have the chance! The museum is open to the public April-November on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays 10-4pm. 

The EMMR is more than a collection of cars; it’s a curated journey through a century of motorsports evolution. From the early bobtail sprint cars of the 1920s to the aerodynamic beasts of the 1980s, each exhibit tells a story of innovation, grit, and community. Highlights include:

  • Tommy Hinnershitz’s Garage: Recreated with original tools and the restored car featuring the iconic horn steering—a piece of racing lore tied to tragedy and triumph.
  • Mario Andretti’s First Ride: A three-quarter midget powered by a Triumph motorcycle engine, marking the humble beginnings of a racing legend.
  • Ted Horn’s Legacy: The largest collection of memorabilia from the national champion, including the tail section from the car he was killed in and his experimental magnesium pistons.
  • Rare Engines and Creative Builds: From Ford tractor engines to WWII BMW motorcycle cylinders, the museum showcases the ingenuity that defined early racing.

Racing Through the Decades

Lynn’s tour reveals how World War II transformed motorsports. Veterans returned with skills in aluminum fabrication and surplus aircraft parts, leading to a leap in car design and performance. The museum’s engine wall illustrates this evolution – from the 20-horsepower Model T to modern small-block Chevys pushing 900 horsepower.

Safety innovations are also on display, from inboard brakes to steering arm tethers – responses to tragic accidents that reshaped the sport. Lynn’s own stories, including a harrowing hospital wake-up after a crash at Hagerstown, underscore the risks drivers faced and the resilience they carried.

The museum doesn’t just preserve machines – it honors the people behind them. Uniforms from Hall of Famers like Billy Pauch, Dave Blaney, and Steve Kinzer hang alongside the cars they drove. Annual displays rotate to spotlight contributors like Stan Lobitz and Kenny Bren, ensuring the museum remains a dynamic tribute to the sport’s community.

Whether it’s the solar-powered college racer from 1999 or the 1940s sprint car with a Ranger aircraft engine, the EMMR bridges generations of motorsports innovation. Lynn’s philosophy is simple: “If you worry about safety, then you better not get in one.” It’s a sentiment that captures the spirit of racers past and present – driven by passion, not fear.

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing isn’t just a place to look back. It’s a place to feel, hear, and even sit in the history of racing. And thanks to curators like Lynn Paxton, the stories behind the speed live on.

Be sure to check out our Motoring Podcast Network series “The Racers Roundtable” sponsored by the EMMR.


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Trading Paint: A Dirt Track Disaster Worth Laughing About

If you’ve ever wondered what would happen if Days of Thunder and Talladega Nights had a lovechild raised by The Fanatic and Death Race 2000, you’d get Trading Paint – a film so baffling, so monotone, and so unintentionally hilarious that it became the perfect target for our latest Break/Fix episode.

Trading Paint stars John Travolta as Sam “The Man” Monroe, a washed-up dirt track legend with a stiff neck, a stiff face, and a stiff script. His son Cam (short for Camshaft? Camouflage? Camembert?) decides to race for his dad’s nemesis, Bob “Leadfoot” Linsky, triggering a family feud that unfolds across 84 minutes of slow laps, awkward hugs, and questionable acting choices.

Filmed in Hueytown and Bessemer, Alabama – not Talladega, despite what the announcers claim – the movie tries to pay homage to the dirt track world but ends up spinning out in a cloud of clichés and confusion.

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Spotlight

Synopsis

The Break/Fix team takes viewers on an entertaining critique of the 2019 film ‘Trading Paint’ starring John Travolta and Shania Twain. The episode dives into the film’s portrayal of dirt track racing, character inconsistencies, and numerous cinematic tropes. Steve and Izzy from ‘Everything I Learned from Movies’ join the hosts to dissect the movie’s poor plot, lackluster acting, and illogical racing sequences. Despite its lack of substance, the film provides plenty of fodder for laughs and critique, including unrealistic storytelling, awkward relationships, and stereotypical character traits.

  • Veteran race car driver Sam Munroe and his son, a fellow driver from a small town overcome family and professional conflicts, balancing competition, ego, resentment and a racing nemesis to come out stronger on the other side.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motor sports.

Dirt track racing is a discipline of motorsport held on clay or dirt surfaced oval. Race tracks often used for thoroughbred horse racing. Dirt track racing started in the United States before a World War I and became widespread during the 1920s and thirties using both automobiles and motorcycles. Two different types of race cars dominate the dirt track scene, open wheel racers in the northeast and the west, and stock cars in the Midwest and the south.

In tonight’s episode of Break Fix, we are rejoined by Steve and Izzy from everything I learned from movies to discuss. Hollywood’s attempt to tip their hat and pay homage to the dirt track world. When we review the 2019 film Trading Paint starring John Travolta and Shania, it’s Wayne. Veteran race car driver, Sam Monroe and his son, a fellow driver from a small [00:01:00] town overcome family and professional conflicts, balancing competition, ego resentment, and erasing nemesis to come out stronger on the other side.

This is Trading Paint. God, I wanna watch that movie, right? , where was that? So we’ll be following your guys format. I’m sure you guys have the play by play of every scene in the movie. So , honestly, I was surprised when I was then. I was like, this is about as much notes as I take for like a 25 minute episode of Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future.

Like it’s about the same plot, just, oh my God. Stretched out. . We’ll, we’ll get into it, but. Pacing. They needed a Pace car. , . I thought Tom Cruise was in Days of Thunder. Was this not Days of Thunder? Did I watch the wrong movie? No, this wasn’t even Talladega Nights, dude. This was horrendous. Wait, we’re talking about Broken Arrow, right?

I thought this was hard. Target. . Darn. [00:02:00] Oh my God, guys, let’s talk about hard target. Can we talk about hard target? That’s the one with, uh, v, right? With the, with the, with the guy who, who used to be a great soldier until he took an arrow to the knee. Why did they call him Chance? Because my mama

act like I haven’t seen that movie too many times. The most dangerous game. Wayne The Mummy. Okay, anyway, the Mummy team up to be bad guys. All right. Anyway, back to a less good movie, . This was the worst movie in the days of Thunder franchise I’ve ever seen. All right, well that about wraps it up everybody.

Thanks for coming. They were not all jacked up on Mountain Dew. Okay, so you got a car. That don’t impress me much.

Copy. Copyright laws. Copyright laws . It was under 15. We’re good before we get started because I wish I had done [00:03:00] this before. Mountain man Dan talked me into watching this movie with him. What are we drinking tonight? Because this is gonna be a ride . Well, on our end, uh, we have from you went to brewing here in Salt Lake City.

Ellipses, which is a barrel-aged oatmeal stout. I think it was one 11%. Oh, this one was, uh, I think 11.5. Nice. ? No. 11.9. 11.9. That’s right. . And uh, my top. Woo. Our tops. Nice. How about you guys? I mean, in keeping with tradition of our paddock, I’m drinking the finest Jaegermeister by Jagermeister . Yeah, he is getting their quote.

He’s the meister of Yager recycled municipal water. Ooh, ooh. Wait, when you say he recycled, uh, . That water was dinosaur once . Oh, okay. I’m drinking. It’s called, it’s the finest drink. I have to work tomorrow. Does that come in a bottle or on tap? . It comes in a bullet shot right into your mouth. So is that Diet Mountain Dew or [00:04:00] what?

Oh, that’s an Icelandic one that’s uh, colored with the neon plugged in or whatever. Oh yeah, yeah. Ice Mountain Dew in Iceland is weird cuz you can’t have unreal products in your beverages. They banned artificial flavors, colors, and preservatives. So they have to try and match that color they use. It’s not plankton.

It’s a seaweed. Yeah, it’s like that neo fluorescent seaweed or whatever . And so like the bottles of Mountain Dew like glow in the dark, it’s and they’re like opaque like you can’t see through ’em. Yeah. And they’re not caffeinated. That’s perfect. The seaweed’s like the new hot thing now. It’s like the super food.

Did it replace kale? Yeah. I will say though, the Icelandic Pepsi only had six ingredients. I don’t know what they were cause they were in Icelandic, but that was the best Pepsi I’ve ever had in my life. It was better than Mexican Coke. I believe one of ’em translates to yellow number five. All of these things are way more interesting than what we’re about to talk about

That’s exactly what I was going to say. Oh, Steve. Izzy, how did you talk us into [00:05:00] this movie, ? First off, we didn’t know this movie exist until you brought it up on your hundredth. You put this on us. Thank you. Know that pain and that hurt. Don’t you put that evil on me. Ricky Bobby 2019 Movie Trading Paint.

It’s on Netflix. I mean, you guys definitely wanna watch it. It’s only 84 minutes with credits or something. Like it was, it was like a special episode of something. It was pretty sweet. But it’s from Director Carn Cater caterer. Who’s he? Steve. Oh, I’m glad you asked. Did a bunch of shorts. The last four, uh, like Levi’s?

Yeah. Up and away, which I’m guessing is the sequel to up this and then coming soon, a true desert Rose. Sounds like Hallmark channel shit, right? ? Is that like Seal’s biography? What is that? It’s a, it’s a, a sting. It’s a desert. Rose

All right. We’re not gonna quit our singing jobs. [00:06:00] No, not at all. What are you talking about? He’s a goddamn songbird, but, but they, let’s not offend up as a movie. Cuz up and away is not the sequel . No. No, not at all. Not at all. But guys, okay. The writers of this movie though, , one of them, Craig r Welch, this is the only thing he’s done, so I’m guessing it’s mostly him, but the other writer is Gary Garran.

Babe. Does that name sound familiar? Who’s he? Steve? Well, he’s written three things. Mm-hmm. number. Pumpkin head. Oh, like the greatest What movie ever made? 1988 Pumpkin Head. All right. Have you guys ever seen Pumpkin Head? No. Lance Hendrickson, some dummies killed his boy and he calls upon the spirit of vengeance and a pumpkin patch with the help of an old witch and hijinks and Sue watch it.

Oh, good. It’s a real, if he like monster movies, it’s legitimately really good. Classic. It’s directed by Stan Winston. Who’s he? Steve. Oh, he’s the guy that did like all the Terminators and the aliens, like all the practical effects and stuff for that. And he Des Legend? Yeah, he designed the, uh, the Xenomorph.

Yeah. But it was written by, uh, Gary Guran. I [00:07:00] guess the only other two This. And 1996 is Van Perella. Oh my God. . Oh yeah. So, alright. So a 10, a three, and then a negative two . That’s called Range Van Perella. Did that Star Elvira no. Or no? A Disney thing? No. Oh, okay. No stripper was uh, Pamela Anderson there? Yeah.

Right. Or no, that was a comic or something. I don’t know. I haven’t seen va perella. I’m sure it’s great. I googled va perella. It looks like strip Pella, but with vampires. . Yeah. Even better. Hold on. How do you spell it? . Vampire. L l a. . Okay. So Vampire. It’s v a. No, . We are stalling. We really don’t wanna review this, do we?

Yeah. Guys. Starring in this movie. We of course have the other half of face off. John Travolta as Sam Monroe. Yeah. Not just Sam Monroe. Sam The Man Monroe. Oh yes, sorry. Sam the Man [00:08:00] Monroe. Oh my God. Mm-hmm. . We also have, I don’t know, multi Grammy award-winning artist, Shania Twain as Becca. We don’t learn that until about three quarters of the way through the movie.

I, I don’t think I had her name the whole time. I just had, I don’t know, Shania. They said it once. Girlfriend on the dock. . Yeah. So Lynch, Shania Twain walks into this movie and Mutt Lang must be pissed. . , by the way. Shania, you live rent free in my head. 24 hours a day, seven days a week. , who’s bed Have your boots been under for some reason has been stuck in my head since 2001.

Who bad? Have your boots been under?

Uh, but you also got Toby Sebastian as Cam. I don’t know the Sun. Monroe. But Steve, what did we decide Cam was short for?

Cam Cam. Yeah, cam, cam Cam Manifold, . His, [00:09:00] his name was Cam Monroe. We originally were like, oh yeah, it must be short for Camaro or something, cause you know, car guys or whatever. I’m like, no, no. It’s gotta be stupider than that. This movie. It’s like, cam, that’s a thing right? I thought it was Cato. . What they were trying to do was keep with Shania’s reputation of her Hallmark films and they couldn’t come out and say, cam the Shaft, Monroe.

I think we have another couple big hitters. We have Kevin Dunn as Stumpy out of nowhere. I was like, what is going on? ? Hey, you’ve seen Kevin Dunn and stuff? There’s the one that got me is the next one I think you’re about to say. Yeah. The, the other Vega brother Michael Madson as uh Yes. Yes. Bob Linsky.

What was his, Bob the, the machine or some shit, something like that. The antagonist. It was Bob Leadfoot. Linsky. Leadfoot, that’s right. Uh, not Bob VAs from VAs Refrige.

Was Phyllis in here? Did [00:10:00] anybody spotter, hi. Bob Bans from Vans from Refrigeration, but we also had an uncredited star in the film, which we’re gonna talk about more in a little bit. Did you guys pick up on Barry Corbin? No. Who’s he? Steve . His name’s Eric for it. . Who’s he? Eric. So Barry Corbin plays Sheriff Buck Taylor.

He’s been in like a million films over the years and what what’s sad is he was uncredited in the film and he had a great scene. That’s the radio talk show scene that we’ll talk about in a little bit between him and Travolta. Okay. I was wondering if that was like, I don’t know, like somebody, I was supposed to know who it is, like a stock car driver from the fifties or something like, oh yeah, everybody knows that, knows dirt racing, knows this guy.

You would know him most recently from Netflix’s the ranch with Ashton Kutcher as he is the veterinarian cowboy. Which is a terrible show. You mentioned the sheriff and now his role isn’t credited. Do you have to ask yourself, was that by choice ? You know, I don’t think I would wanna be associated with this film [00:11:00] either if they asked me to cameo in it at 85 years old or however old he is.

Yeah, I, I’m good. I’m good. You can keep your credits , no appearance fee. Well, you all didn’t mention, there’s another person in this that I caught on. She’s one of the sand snakes from Game of Thrones. Don’t know her real name, but she played tines sand in the Game of Thrones. She was Cindy the girlfriend?

Rella Loren Fellows. Oh, alright. Oh, is that who that was? Yep. Yep. The one who, uh, will get to it, but at the end of the film probably does the most dangerous stunt in the film. Yes. . , come on. That’s like a Saturday afternoon on TikTok. Yeah. But they also eat Tide pods on TikTok, so, yeah. I, I, I just had a thought, I, I’m sure citing on Travolta for this.

I was like, all right, we can pay you a million dollars or like 30% of the gross, and I’m sure Travolta’s like, what? Yeah. Let’s go to 30%. Any guesses what the worldwide gross of this movie was? $5. I’ve been thinking that the whole time. Please. $1 off. [00:12:00] 800. 800? No. 677,000. $6,898 . Whoa. . I was all by order.

Magnitude or two . 30 of seven grand outta curiosity. Uh, it was it like two grand, 2100, something like that. . Something like that. Yeah. He probably got that. I was like, shit, I don’t remember making this movie. . I think that was the same year I made that, uh, the Fanatic or whatever. Have you guys seen The Fanatic?

What was the other really shitty movie that Travolta was in? I mean, he, he’s he’s done all shitty movies. You want me to pull up his imdb or Battle for New York or whatever it was? Oh, battlefield Earth. Yeah, that fucking turd. What the fuck was that? This was Battlefield Turd. Guys, I’m gonna blow your mind.

Name me. Three. Good John Travolta movies. Be cool. Okay. That one’s actually all right, Michael. Somebody’s gonna say Grease Pulp Fiction. Get Shorty. That’s the same franchise, that’s like Name me 10 good Vin Diesel [00:13:00] movies. Fast and Furious. Okay Eric, you were saying Pulp Fiction sucked though when we were talking about this previously.

So, but you’re gonna use it as a good movie now. I never said Pulp Fiction sucks. Eric is not a fan of Paul Fishing. I am not. I am not. It’s a good movie. I will agree that it’s a good movie. No, not being a fan of it is different sword. Swordfish was a good movie. Swordfish. I’m gonna throw this out there.

And I said, this movie highlighted one thing that I didn’t have any awareness of prior to this. His team, Travolta’s? No, Travolta’s. Acting’s not that good. What the cast around him are, what make the movies what they are. In my opinion, I’m, I’m gonna say it true. His, his, he’s always got that same kind of, I’m super cool thing about him.

Yeah. When he’s really too cool for school. Yeah, yeah. Like cool’s literally in the title of the movie. I mean, even in Paul Fiction, he was kind of, he Urban Cowboy. That was nobody’s top movie. What? Hello? So he hasn’t made a good movie since 2004. So is what I’m hearing right. He was in Punisher in 2004. Oh yeah.

He was the bad guy in Punisher. Yeah, the Thomas. The Thomas. Yeah. I think that’s When Be Cool came out too. It was like oh 4, 0 5, something like that. Be [00:14:00] cool. Was a lot of fun. Don’t, don’t be dis No, he was in, he was in that Wild Hogs movie. He sure was. He, he was also in, look who’s talking now? It doesn’t matter.

uh, they had so much budget to work with. Apparently they wasted it all on the writer. , how much did they spend on this film? I couldn’t find it, but I’m just looking at it like, I mean, having Travolta and stuff involved, it’s gotta be like eight to 10 million at least. Right. The guy Shania what? Oh, Shania was like free.

She, it was probably filmed in Canada. Shania works for Fried Chicken . It was filmed in Shania’s Backyard. That’s why she’s in it. She’s like, y’all filming a movie here? Oh wait, Steve, I have a fun fact here with the Cooks. Do you wanna know what the US Gross was on this movie? What was that? $0. Zero? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, so it opened up in Ecuador, I guess, and made almost seven grand. I don’t know. Yeah. I wonder. My Netflix fees keep going up each month. I mean, they’re losing money hand over fist. . It is shockingly 0% on Rotten Tomatoes, 31% with the audience, which I found [00:15:00] shocking. I mean, one person gets it up to 31%, right?

There’s only three. Yeah. It’s probably because of the cameos. They’re like, oh my God, it’s that guy. Oh no, it’s her. Look at that. Is that Barry Corbet? Holy shit. That’s like Stan. Anyway, , had any of you guys on here heard of this movie prior to recently? Nope. I never heard of it prior to it being brought up.

I mean, the best part of Dan’s, you know, review of this, you know, he took issue with things that I would’ve never thought to take issue with. . He found inaccuracies never. And inaccuracies. I mean, he really studied this movie because remember he prepared, he watched it three entire times. . So where is he?

What? But here’s the best part. Not only did he watch it three times, One time with no sound. It wasn’t there, it a very minimal sound. What, why, what was it better? Because he just wanted to feel the emotion of the like, phenomenal cinema. That’s when he realized [00:16:00] Travolta’s face wasn’t moving. . You pick up the real details when it’s a silent film.

Oh my god, you guys, John Travolta has been replaced with an anime character. We have to go free him. Oh my God. All right, well, speaking of, uh, I don’t know.

Oh my God. I was gonna say, uh, this movie was filmed in Hueytown and Bessemer, Alabama. Not Talladega, but apparently, uh, Hueytown is the hometown of NASCAR’s, Alabama Gang. Guys, what the hell is that? Don’t look at me. Is that Alabama game? Like we got gang or, uh, gang like, uh, Oh gang. Yeah. Yeah. G a n g. Like a, like a group of individuals I guess.

Got it, got it. So real quick, Steve, your mission, where it was filmed we’re at in Alabama, did you say? Hueytown and Bessemer. But Hueytown is the Alabama gang thing. Anderson cuz the Talladega short track, which is an actual dirt track there in Alabama, is in [00:17:00] a place called Isa Boga. I’m probably pronouncing that wrong, but it’s E A S T A B O G A.

Yeah. That’s Isa Boga. This was one of two movies that Travolta filmed in the Greater Birmingham, Alabama metropolitan area during March of 2018. So apparently he did two movies in a month. The other was The Fanatic, which starts off with him saying, can we wrap this up? I got a Poo . That’s his first line in the mo.

Okay. If you guys haven’t seen the Fanatic, check it out. It is a horrible movie. It’s directed by Fred Durst. Yes. That Fred Durst from One Bizkit. What? Fred Durst. Is it about a fanatic? It is about a mentally handicapped individual played by John Travolta, who I guess meets someone. He idolizes, played by Devin Saa, like, like some sort of celebrity or whatever that he’s like kind of obsessed with.

Never Go full simple, Jack. And Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty much it’s, [00:18:00] it’s a, it What if Simple Jack wanted to kidnap a celebrity and hygiene and zoo who watched Tropic Thunder and said, we gotta make that movie. We gotta make that, but cross it with that fan movie that had Wesley Snipes and, uh, Robert de Ni.

You remember that, right? Five people watched it. simple, Jack , . We gotta make simple Jack, it’s gonna sell. Trust me. You gotta tell that backstory. We gotta unpack that onion. Holy cow. So the way I looked at this was it came out in 2019 probably to nobody’s, you know, recollection, obviously. And then we somehow missed it during Tiger King and every other stupid film that we were watching on Netflix, it slipped through the cracks, and here we are three years later when Tanya brought it to our attention goes, have you seen this Travolta movie that’s in the ads on Netflix?

I mean, they’re pumping this thing hard. It pops up on my like Recomme. Films even [00:19:00] before I started watching it. I’m like, why I don’t watch that many racing films? This is weird. That just means you’re watching horrible movies on a regular basis. Oh, oh God, you’ve been bitching Travolta . That’s how we found so many Nicholas Cage movies on Netflix at one point.

It’s like, Hey, you watched Nicholas Cage movie? Here’s the other 25 that we got for free at a yard sale. Okay, guys, I have to mention this. I put in racing movies to like look up other ones like jog my memory of one. Thanks Google. Popular Racing movies, I’m assuming, based on my search, number one is Trading Paint followed By, or B Ferrari, followed by Speed Kills another John Travolta movie Made the year before about speedboats cars

Yeah. Yeah, they’re, they’re listening. For me. Where? Speed Racer Rad. Death Race. The Jason Statham won. Yeah. Days of Thunder. Days of Thunder. Herbie fully loaded. Ben. Her . Oh yeah, Ben her. But it’s not Cars Need for speed. Fast Company. [00:20:00] 1979. Yeah, that one. After a sponsor replaces him with his arch rival race car Driver decides to steal a car and race it himself.

Starring William Smith. Oh yeah. William Smith from Champaign and Bullets. And also Conan’s dad, the last Travolta movie I watched, everybody’s going, oh, Saturday Night Fever. No, I watched Killing Season with Robert De Niro because I thought the premise from the trailer, much like the trailer of this movie.

I was like, ah, maybe this could be interesting. This would be good. It was also horrendous. But you know what I took away from that? Travolta really grew. He really blossomed. He. A veteran actor, you know, pulp Fiction, Saturday Night Fever, all this kinda stuff. But he really transcended from killing season to this movie because what I noticed is that the hair implants that he was working on during that film have taken root and you know, he’s looking good now looking more natural.

Nice John Travolta’s, country accent. And his demeanor in this movie was like John [00:21:00] Travolta was playing Michael Scott playing a country guy, . Does he have dentures? Because, I mean, Dan and I were laughing about his terrible southern accent. His inflections were totally wrong. It just, I’ve never heard a monotone southern accent before.

Now I think he had fake teeth in like whether he has dentures or not. I definitely think he had fake teeth in for this for some reason. And what’s up with his beard? Could he manscape a little bit? Do you guys notice the splotchy patches in his cheeks? Like, is that like, The residual hair. Hey, not everybody can grow a beard.

Yeah, yeah. Say Dylan pointed out here in killing season. His beard was epic. It was sprayed out of a can. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m sure. Sure. They had the stencil, held it over his face . His Russian accent was terrible there too. I’m guessing he can’t grow a proper beard because his face is plastic because did you notice in this movie, his face does not move at all?

All of his facial acting expressions are in like little twitches in his eyes. That’s the only part [00:22:00] of his face that moves is his little eyes to eye movements. He was being a strong southern, serious man. , fine southern gentlemen. John Wayne was a strong, serious southern man, and his acting chops were way above this.

It drops you right in like a lot of dramatic films were right in the action, right where at Talladega. Dirt oval. Short course . Well, yeah. When they said, we’re here, here live at Talladega, I’m like, get the fuck outta here. That’s somebody’s backyard. You were writing a note when it popped up. Short course.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Short course. And then, uh, like Izzy was looking it up and it’s like, oh yeah, short courses are like a sixth of a mile. And they’re like 50 laps. And I’m like, so the race is what, six to eight minutes? An insanity? Yeah. Like ten second laps. Right. I mean, it’s just bonkers. They were Talladega.

Parking lot. . Here we’re at Talladega parking lot. Parking garage. Here we are at Talladega soap and says, let’s get your car washed in [00:23:00] 30 seconds. . Yeah. Oh my God. The announcers. The announcers. Eric, you and I could be dirt track announcers. I found after watching this. We could be dirt track announcers.

Hundred percent. I’m ready for the challenge, man. Oof, oof. Yeah, we, we were making jokes whenever the announcers were coming on. Like there were the announcers from over the top where it’s like, and by the way, this is a double elimination tournament. I really would hate to be the young son of that arm wrestler right there.

Yeah. The drama between him and his father, crew chief and his big rival, Bob Leadfoot. Linsky . I’m like, if I were listening to this at a, at a racetrack, I’d be like, Shut up. Just tell us who’s in the lead. . . It’s a Redwater, the blue one. . I immediately took issue with the audio of the cars and then Dan kept telling me, oh no, that’s what they sound like.

And I’m like, what a Honda with a fart can. I’m like, these things sound terrible. How dare you? How? How dare you say that about my Honda . I mean, it [00:24:00] was like even the choreography of the driving when they were in the cars looked like 1960s Batman, you know, where it’s like kind of mopping around in the background.

I was like, what is this? The out scenes were okay, like what they shot was probably of an actual race at whatever that, you know, backwards dirt track that they filmed it at was. So that was like legitimately Okay. The one where they were doing just 20 miles an hour. Well, yeah. So you noticed that too, right?

Yeah, yeah. , they couldn’t even like try to make, shoot it to look fast. So the first 15 minutes of this 84 minute film, I guess is supposed to set the stage. Yeah, we basically, we see him racing the final lap. We see a guy, we don’t know who this is, it’s like Cameron Monroe and I, her window, wait, did you just say Cameron Poe?

The, the, the, the star of Con Air? No, no, it’s Cam Monroe. But then, yeah, the engine blows Boo uh, fizzles out and the other guy wins. And we’re supposed to be like, okay, cool, we lost a race. They’re like, no. You know, his father’s his crew chief and he lost the biggest rival Bob Lip Olinsky, who owns all the car [00:25:00] dealerships in town apparently, cuz no one ever leaves Talladega and, and everything down the, the sun looks like a poor man’s Colin Farrell here at the beginning.

And then it’s suddenly like, all right, y’all, I gotta go to work. Yes. He was like, deuces, get my son’s car. I gotta go. Yeah. I was like, what? What the hell’s going on? I mean, he is not Robert Duval. It’s not like, Y’all, you can come on down here and get some ice cream. You know, it wasn’t any of that, which is what I was expecting, but nope, nope, nope.

So he had to go to work. Well, the best part of it is he says he has to go to work. Cops in the truck, you see him drive off. We then cut to the scene of an accident and I’m like, holy shit, did I just kill Travolta ? They should have, it would’ve been a more interesting movie if they had . Yeah. Apparently he’s a tow truck driver and he’s just, you know, going to work.

Okay. Are we talking about the accident accident or the, the flashback accident? Well, it’s the same scene. Yeah. Say it’s a real accident and he is sitting there watching like, you know, like, oh, we’re about ready for you. But then it’s like, then we flashback to another accident because we see [00:26:00] them load up a very alive old man onto a stretch, like into the back of an uh, E M T truck.

And then he has the flash. So the flashback, he’s riding in a car with a woman. They’re going down the road pretty fast, whatever, all this kind of thing. I immediately had that flashback to the scene with Brendan Frazier and Doom Patrol, where he, he takes out his wife and you know, that’s how he becomes a robot man when he goes under the semi.

I said, oh, I see where this is going. Right. The part that I took issue with, I don’t know if you guys noticed or not, they had a couple different cut shots of the accident, because I guess that’s Travolta’s dead wife is what we’re supposed to figure out from this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they’re kissing in the car, which was okay, whatever.

And then you see him swerve around that Jeep pulls into oncoming traffic and then swerves and he t-boned the car in front of him. Exactly. Yeah. That, yeah. You’re a dirt track driver knows how to drift, made no sense at all. Yeah. Luckily we go from there to, we see [00:27:00] a, a mysterious car under a cover in a garage somewhere that he’s looking at and I’m like, so did he take the wreckage home with him or, I know this is gonna be the fast and furious thing where it’s like his dad’s car or the car he killed his wife in or something.

But it’s not gonna tell us that till third act. Okay. Whatever. Checkoffs cars there, , then we cutoff’s car . That scene was taken completely out of Fast and Furious. A hundred percent. It was, yeah. There’s a lot of tropes in this movie for sure. And then we cut to, uh, fishing with Shania Twain. Okay, so you’re Brad Pitt.

That don’t impress me much.

And, and I’m like, so is this his new wife or what? Right. It’s especially weird when like, we don’t get her name until like the third act. What’s the way they were talking? It was like a first date. Um, it’s almost sounded like a first date. I literally turned to Mount Manan and I said, you’ve watched [00:28:00] this movie twice already without me.

What in the hell is going on? And he just does his little mountain lap. You’re gonna figure it out, right? And I’m like, dude, who is this chick? Like what is, why did we go from this death scene and that we’re fishing? I get that. She’s Shania Twain. Well, I don’t know her name. I don’t know why they’re there.

like I, but you know what we do find out? The name of the person. She divorced. She divorced is Steve. Big fucking mistakes. Steves are the best. Steves are the best. Steves are the worst. Jesus. Bring up one bad Steve. Uh, I can name like five that I’ve used to work for. Terrible. Steves terrible fucking people.

It’s, it’s probably their middle name. Then their last one, Winer alert. She isn’t actually real. This is some sixth sense and it’s the vision of his dead wife the whole time. We’re in the Matrix. . Anyone else ever talk to her during the movie? I see dead people. Cam talks to her though. Cam talks to her? Or was that just Sam Younger?

Since we went from the flashback to this, I thought [00:29:00] that for a second. , I’m not gonna lie. Like is he talking to his dead wife? Is that like just out fishing? Yeah. I, I didn’t know what was going on. Yeah, . That would’ve been a much more interesting movie. But then we go to Dan’s first favorite part of the film.

What happens next? Dan, do you remember when they’re in the red Dodge pickup truck? When he is there on the date by the pond talking to Shania cuz she speaks to something about teaching and he talks about getting in trouble for doing donuts at the school. And she’s like, well, what’s Donuts? And he takes her out in the truck and he is like, I’ve never done this before.

And it’s like you just said, you got in trouble for, and you’re gonna be doing it in a field and tell her you’ve never gone it before. And other than that, like who doesn’t know what donut a donut is? Yeah. That was two things wrong with this movie. It’s like, what are donuts Like Are you from Iceland or something?

I it. That’s the only Canada excuse. Canada. Canada. Okay. Oh, you know what, that does make sense now. Canada, what do they call donuts in Canada? Loonies. I don’t know. Tims Horton’s. It’s a croissant. Yeah, course. Can I get a Horton, a dozen Hortons [00:30:00] poutine? Who cares? I was kidding. Shout out to our Canadian listener, to the one Canadian listener that we have.

Gotta go down to the Tim Horton. But you know, I will say, Dan turns to me and he goes, you know, I’ll take issue with him driving a Dodge. I dog really . He’s a Ford man. Like I’m offended by him driving that. Their ram. This is a Ford movie. Yeah. Now that’s not what I said. I said it’s pretty sad that he’s supposedly a Ford guy, but his daily driver’s a Dodge.

That’s all I was saying. Uhhuh . Uhhuh . Well, cause he actually wants to tow the trucks instead of, you know, become part of the problem. . Oh, shit. Kidding. I, I’m just kidding. This movie is brought to you by Ford. That’s why I say that. Yeah, right. Sha Rock. Shania sets the record straight. Racing. Ain’t no hobby.

Did she say that or did he say that? . [00:31:00] Ok. It doesn’t matter. It was sad. Travolta said, I think racing’s like the, one of the most expensive hobbies. It’s like that and getting a boat. Oh, oh. It’s up there with simply tossing money into an inferno. That’s about the same thing. That whole dinner scene, the fishing scene, I mean, were they on a date?

I wasn’t sure they kept having these awkward, intimate hugs, like maybe Travolta’s whole body has been Botox. Cuz he’s so stiff. Like I don’t, yeah, . I don’t get it. He was definitely a robot through like the whole movie. And like Brad said earlier, the monotone of him, he had no emotion. And like at the very beginning open scene where Cam took the lead, his excitement was so minimal.

It’s like, no. If that was in real life, you’d be like jumping off the walls if your son took the lead on a championship break. Yeah. Go, go, go, go, go. Yeah. Did you guys also notice, because Dan and I were laughing pretty hard about this, he can’t move his neck. Yeah. He moves his shoulders and his head. So he really is like the robot [00:32:00] man.

Like I, I don’t know if he’s got something physically wrong. Yeah. He may have had neck surgery or something. I, I, I mentioned that John Travolta is in his seventies. Let’s, I mentioned that too, that I didn’t think he could move his neck. Yeah. Yeah, he did. Cause I was like, oh yeah, he is moving like that man.

Yeah. Guy guys. Time comes for us all . Yeah. Right. So after that, State of nothing. Yeah. The next part’s like we see, uh, cam the son and he is like talking with his wife outside of the trailer. And I guess she was like going to work and he was coming home from work to like watch the kid or something. I don’t know what, but he is basically like, man, if I’m gonna make something outta of this rating, I, I might have to go, uh, you know, drive for, uh, Bob Lansky’s team instead of my dad’s.

But, but that’s your biggest rival and family’s thicker than money or I, I don’t know, some stupid shit like that. Family. Family blood is thicker than cash? No, no. I can definitely plug a blood hole with some cash. I can definitely soak up some blood with some cash, but it’s [00:33:00] called. Yeah. So this kicks off the whole estrangement process.

Right? It’s the whole like, big chunk of the film, right? The rift between him and his dad, the whole schism, whatever, you know, fancy vocabulary words you want to use there. We needed a plot. Yeah, right. But it’s the only $10 word we can use for this movie. So we’ll just go with that. I just don’t understand, like, so, okay, so the next scene, they’re back at the track, right?

So now he’s driving for Linsky and that whole drama and, and everything. Well, no, you gotta have the blowout where he actually tells his dad too. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he, he like goes to the tow company or whatever and he is like, Hey dad. So, um, uh, I think I’m gonna race for Bob Linsky and the dad.

Just like, what do you think a championship is worth more than family or loyalty? Oh, this is, oh, whatever. Get outta here. You’re fired. Oh, hold on. . He’s like, walk. He’s like, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. You’re fired . And that’s like the end of the scene. It was like that line . I thought I raised you better than this.

Yeah. You ain’t never gonna find work again in this one horse [00:34:00] town. No, I just told you I got a better job. . Yeah, right. With your worst enemy. Were you not listening ? So he’s fired or quit or whatever. Oh, and like his wife is there like in the parking lot too. I was like, wait, does she work there? Like, she was right there when it happened.

He is like, I was going to tell you first , but I didn’t. And she’s like, what happened? He came, no, no, no. Came in, he came into the restaurant and then she like left out the back and got in her truck and was like, I’m going home. Which I didn’t understand why, why did she leave her job? Like what now? We’re both unemployed.

this baby’s gonna be addicted to meth before you know it. So when did the high school bathroom scene happen? I, I had that written down high school. Oh, that, that, that was in like some like retirement party or something. That was like the award ceremony, right? Yeah. They had a whole fallen out there. Yeah.

And I’m just like, skip that. That was a, yeah, I think that was like the lifetime achievement award for the guy who was. Doing the speech in the background that they kept fading out. Yeah. Cam came out of the bathroom and he went to Cindy and he was like, I just got in a fight with my dad. We gotta go [00:35:00] like, oh God, you did that again.

I didn’t even see it as a fight. He was, they talked, maybe they raised their voices a little bit. Yeah, but he ca he was so dramatic. I just got in a fight with my dad. We gotta go. We gotta go now. By the way, when they were having the argument there in the shitter, I just wanted somebody in the background to be like, shut the fuck up.

Some of us are trying to drop logs here. I’m trying to poop. Fuck you. Shorey . It’s Canadian, right? Yeah. Michael Matson’s trying to pinch a loaf and he is like, will you pany? Shut the fuck up, . And then we get a wonderful scene of Sam, you know John Travolta at the bar drinking and his uh oh man, buddy Stumpy comes over and he is like, oh man.

So he had a rough day. Hey. We should go fishing. This character Jack comes over and is just a pure a hole. The, I done heard something about your boy leaving Go race for Linsky and blah, blah blah. By the way, [00:36:00] Jack apparently also races for Linsky. we find out later, but not in this particular scene. He’s the Cobra Kai of this particular movie.

He’s going, he’s gonna sweep the leg. Johnny put him in a potty bag. Yeah, he’s that guy. A hundred percent . So yeah. Triple to dexon. Fuck. That was the saddest. Spar Fight cliche Trop scene I have ever seen, if that was bottled, it would be weak sauce . It was. It was the weakest knockout punch I’ve ever seen.

It was like slow motion with his robot movement. I looked at it and I was like, man, that dude has such a glass jaw that week of a punch. Knocked him out. It was epicly terrible, but it was expected. Alright, we’re in a small southern town, we’re dirt track racing. We got the girlfriend, not girlfriend, we got the, the rift between the dad we’re driving tow trucks, all this stuff, yeehaw, and here we are in the bar scene getting smashed.

Which he really wasn’t on like, you know, Bartles and James or something. I dunno what the hell he was drinking, but that whole scene was like so forced in there, like it [00:37:00] had to be in there. You know what I mean? It’s like we gotta have the bar scene. It would’ve been nicer if Lansky had walked in, like the guy from Talladega Knight, you know, the uppity Formula One dude, like it had gone down like that.

He’ll do anything. Pancakes. Yeah, exactly. But it just, it lost all of the potential that it had almost immediately. I don’t know if it was immediately after or several hours later, that Stumpy offers to drive John Travolta home. As they’re walking to the car, I’m like, oh no. We’re gonna get another accident.

Blast be flashed back to later. They’re both drunk, right? ? I’m a little less drunk than you. It’s alright. . Yeah, right. I can stay between the lines at least. You just tell me when to turn the scene you’re talking about. Were stumpy’s walking tra bolts out to the truck to take ’em home. The worst thing about it, if you look at it, he’s walking perfectly fine.

No limp or anything. And you later. His name is Stumpy because he’s missing part of his leg. If you wanted to do this right, have a little bit of a limp or something [00:38:00] as you’re walking tra volts out. I said, but you’re walking perfectly normal on every other scene, except for when they’re talking about him having it.

It wasn’t until after that he actually has a little bit of a limp in a scene later on. No, they were trying to keep it as a surprise. You know that surprise reveal of surprise. It was a stump the whole time. It wasn’t just a clever nickname. Yeah, his nickname Stumpy was before he lost the leg. . Yes. . Uh oh.

How oddly Prophetic. We’ll get to that part later. All right, so my favorite scene comes next. There’s the favorite scene. Well, Dan and I enjoyed this scene because it is the only bit of levity throughout the whole film. It makes no sense, but it needs to be there because let’s face it, the rest of this film sucks.

So you get this call in radio show like a seven 80 am in the middle of Kansas or wherever the hell they are, and Sheriff Buck Taylor comes on the air. Racing is in our blood. With me today is Sam the man, Monroe, doing his whole thing. And that old lady that called in, I mean Dan, Dan and I were [00:39:00] cracking up cuz that was like the best thing ever, especially at the end of her little story.

And he goes, Well, maam, that gives you a free pass for speeding tickets, . I was just like right on brother. Wasn’t Cam listening to it at work for Bob Linsky? Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. So it was before the accident, but yeah, it was pretty damn good. . Oh yeah, because Cam and uh, like three other guys are working on a car there at Linsky shop listening to it.

and like I’m assuming she works in the office, like HR type person’s out there. Here’s a walks away and then Linsky comes out cuz all of ’em are kind of giggling about the lady that called in and Linsky comes over, picks the radio up and slams it to the ground and breaks it to a million pieces and then just like walks out.

Speaking of non-committal relationships and women who get no names. I was thinking that woman was like the trophy wife of Linsky. I thought that too, but then was like, oh, she works there. Is she just like a sidepiece or is she just a secretary? Because she doesn’t matter at all in this movie other than that one scene.

She’s the secretary. Come on. He could have thrown his trophy wife of bone to make her feel [00:40:00] good working in the shop. He kisses the one lady after he won the one race and I couldn’t tell if it was her or not. Right. So I’m not sure. Oh yeah, yeah. Maybe it was her. Well I guess we’ll just have to watch it for a fourth time.

Am I right ? No. Let us know. We go back to the track several times during this span of, I don’t know what the hell’s going on in the movie at this point. We’ll call it Act two, right? Yeah. We get a whole bunch of stuff about him. Like I, I don’t know. For some reason he goes to check out the wreckage at the racetrack, and I don’t know, whenever I see this pointless kind of a scene where like there’s nobody around, somebody kneels down and like puts their hand next to a piece of metal on the ground.

I just think of a, was it the fourth Fast and Furious when Dominic Totos like, Imagining what happened based on like a paint skit on the road. , like, I think you skipped something really big. If we’re talking about him kneeling with wreckage. . Oh yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. That’s what I was getting to. Which is Oh yeah, yeah.

Oh shit. He starts racing against his son, but the probably most important part of [00:41:00] that whole segment there, which seemed like it took a hundred years, but it was probably only five minutes due to the length of this film, is that when he is in testing, he’s like, oh, you got that old dog, that old, you know, Chevy, blah blah blah, this and that.

And it’s like all this stuff and the car’s a complete turd. We already know that It blew up at the beginning of the movie. Yeah. And he is like, you guys silly. I’m still gonna send it. I’m gonna show these suckers how fast I am, you know, and then he goes out. And he obliterates everybody. Yes. That bothered me too.

I’m like, your son left because your car’s a turd and can’t win. And then you take the car out and it’s like Grease lightning. . Literally . I what I was saying, like at this point I’m like screaming at the tv, like take a year off, build a better car. Let your son race for the competition. Then have your son leave the competition for you and then obliterate them like, come on, steal all their secrets, and then leave.

Take all that money and buy the new motor. Yes. That sounds like a much longer movie. Yeah, that I didn’t want to see. They gotta say something for the sequel. [00:42:00] Am I right? That’s true. Oh my god. Based on that four figure return. . All right, so he’s racing against his son, and then there’s a scene in another nighttime race.

Like all of them are in dirt track. He gets something that we know in our world as the red mist, which is you kind of get the blinders on, you get angry, you get super focused, and you’re just chasing the taillights in front of you. Right? So we have that whole scene, Johnny, to sweep the leg from the bar scene Takes his revenge.

Y’all are skipping so much. Yeah. Yeah. You’re skipping. Oh, what did, what did I miss? I must have slept through it. Well, he beats ly these guys first. Yeah, say there’s the whole race where Sam wins. Whoops. Everybody’s butt. Another chat with Shania talking about selling the like 70 Mustang that he has.

That’s the car. We get a little peak of the car under the cover and it’s a 70 Mustang that I guess he bought for his wife after his fifth championship. Don’t learn that till later. , the big thing before the point Eric’s [00:43:00] getting to is the fact that Linsky tries to get Cam to wreck his dad because Linsky didn’t make the final, the main event for that particular race.

And he’s like, look, your dad’s getting too far ahead of me in points. I need you to take him out. And of course Cam didn’t do it, which led up to what Eric was about to say. Sweep the leg Jon, sweep the leg. , I mean, God. Yeah. So that whole racing goes down and as expected bumps, the quarter panel spins ’em around, blah, blah, blah.

And then. Wait, wait a second though. Can we go back to that scene? Because that dude was like flying 20 miles an hour around the track like everybody else whatever speed they were doing and then dude like basically comes to a stop. Everyone else is still going the same speed. And then right at the point that Cam is like side by side, dudes are like warp drive and he’s like back up the speed and it’s like side by side and then can like tap him and spin him like f you

Look, it’s a lot easier to go to warp speed to a sudden stop when it’s [00:44:00] only 20 miles an hour. Like you can do it like 20 feet. That is very, very true. And then top back out like within three seconds. Where was the blue flagger out there? Where were the flagger? Do they have flags in dirt track? Dan? I don’t know.

Daniel. They do at the start and finish line. O. Okay. Red flag, green flag. We got it. and white flag. Or in checker flag? Well, it should have been a white flag for that guy. Slow moving vehicle. No white flag’s. One lap to go in. Dirt track racing. Come on. That’s the only time you use it. You, well, he should’ve got a meatball then.

Don’t be bringing that European sports car nonsense to this fine Talladega short track. They can only handle making left turns. Don’t throw anything more confusing in there if they can’t handle the right turn. I mean, I gotta say the racing, the movie, the Disney movie cars was more exciting than this says for sure.

Don’t you dare. Blast. Theme Cars is a wonderful or whatever. Jijiga. . I mean, that’s a great movie. Okay, because of Michael Keaton. Yes. Now [00:45:00] cars too. You can trash out all you want, but original cars. Watch a goddamn hell. So let’s get back to this wannabe days of thunder scene. Oh, when Cams on fire, save. I’m on fire.

Hey, cam is on fire. I’m on fire cruise. I mean, we knew it was coming, right? We knew the plan. We knew Johnny was gonna sweep the leg. The spin was coming. What I didn’t expect much to Tanya’s point from earlier about even the accident with the wife, you think Travolta’s reaction would’ve been not to T-bone his son in the middle of the track?

No. Instead, what does he do? I don’t know if he downshifted, but I mean he sped up and just rammed it full speed ahead. I was like, seriously? Did you even try? You’d think also, and I don’t speak from any experience, I haven’t even watched short track race in person, but the track is so short as its name says , that you would be Ha hey, be able to have seen him.

Mm-hmm. situational awareness. How [00:46:00] dare you. As you were coming around the turn, I know they made it as though the guy in front of him suddenly moved and then it was like boom, he was there. The other guy somehow was able to swerve at the last second. But , it’s not Travolta. Nope. Depending on placement on the track.

Cuz if you’re coming around a turn, you’re basically drifting around the turn. If you’re in that drift and the car’s there, you’re kind of set to where you either turn the wheel to the left and spin out to where your ass and your car hits him, or you just maintained your course and you’re gonna hit ’em.

He was already going straight. That’s true. He was going straight by them a little bit. The whole race. They looked like they were going straight. Yeah. I didn’t see any, any skidder cars out there at all. They were going straight the whole time. Did he hit ’em like a missile? 20 mile an hour missile? Well, when you’re only going 20 miles an hour, it’s hard to show ’em skidding cuz they’re not really skidding.

Right, exactly. The impact blew, like the car in half Cam’s, car was in half this. It was insane. To which the whole car is a freaking roll bar. He should have been dead. If that was a real impact, it would’ve killed him. But what? He would’ve been dead. But luckily [00:47:00] his dad was there to dive in and save him and poem him from the wreck.

Yeah, because that was medically safe. Yeah. Yeah. His dad definitely totally didn’t just break his back there. So in the whole scene when like the race is like shut down because they’re like saving him or whatever. There’s a scene where I, I think it was like stumping was like walking onto the track and we see like jack in the car and he is like looking down, blah, blah, blah.

I was expecting Stumpy to like walk up, snap his neck, roll credits. Guys, what do we think of this movie? . . Fuck with my friend. Clock . You know, like that’s my Ken, what he kept saying, that’s my, that’s my son. That’s my son. Like whatever a big baffling thing is. The only injuries that Cam gets outta this is some broken legs.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Were they really broken? He was walking on fracture. Right? Okay, come on because let’s go back to your timeline problem here. Cuz if he had broken his legs, he would’ve missed an entire other season. That kid would’ve been like eight years old by the end of this [00:48:00] movie if we follow any sort of logic.

The first race back, they said it’d been six months since he was in a car. So he’s very fast. He’s like Guy. Some of that X-Men regeneration type stuff. Wolverine, they’re athletes, guys. I mean, you see football players break a leg and be back by the playoffs. Called drugs zone shots. Oh yeah. There’s no drugs in NASCAR or dirt racing.

Yeah, they just don’t test for cocaine. . Yeah. Yeah. There’s definitely no drugs involved in going in a quarter mile circle a hundred times until you throw up. They don’t be testing for meth. That’s what Steve was saying about the short track. He’s like, I can Carson her for like the eighth laugh. That’s like the equivalent of like putting your head on the baseball bat and like trying to run around it like 50 times.

I mean, that’s a sport I guess he blew in a vehicle. There we go. But the thing with that accident baffle me is his legs were broken, but the impact was on the back of the car. You think the impact would’ve been to the front of the car? Don’t question the science. They already [00:49:00] did the math for you. It didn’t have, I think he had another injury too.

I thought there was something like ribs, honey. Ribs. Yeah. . It was his back cuz his dad pulled him out of a burning car. Right. Crushed his ribs on the way out. He, he was filled with rage, thought he was jack and. Oh no. That must have happened during the crash. Sorry, son. Eric is still dying. . . We broke. Eric.

Eric, Eric. Breathe buddy. You got this. He got this. Eric’s envisioning the baseball bats . He’s just picturing, he’s just picturing Travolta and his son doing all those races and then trying to run. I think we should redo this movie. And then each of the racing scenes should just be us doing that. Yes. Oh, here’s how you make NASCAR interesting.

You start every race with them outside of the car, doing 20 laps around the baseball bat, and then trying to get to the car instead of the Lamont star. It’s the Talladega star. Yeah. . [00:50:00] Yeah. The literal slugger start every pit stop, they take a hit off a beer bong or whatever and then it’s like, alright, I’ll see you in 30 now this is a race I wanna see.

I’d watched NASCAR if they did this shit. , NASCAR hit me up. I’ve got notes, , oh my god, they are hurting a rating. So would definitely benefit them. . Alright, so uh, one up Samir. Yeah. So we got like, so wait, wait, wait, wait. So Cam is in the hospital now, right? Yeah, yeah. From this traumatic baseball, bad injury or whatever.

Apparently you didn’t pay on time , so unfortunately this was another just classic. Trope, right? It was the Prodigal Sun Hospital scene confessional. I was like, oh, really? Like we’re gonna go there. Like this is how it’s gonna play out. Yeah, of course. You guys are so accepting of it. . Yeah, apparently they had seen Driven too in Days of Thunder and all the other, dare [00:51:00] I say, better racing movies, Laura.

I mean, at least Travolta wasn’t running a sweet and low packet up his son’s leg or whatever. I mean, you know, we , wouldn’t it have been Jello in a Halo Hospital pool? , yeah. Give me some ice cream. Lemme show you how. Take that turn. Then we pan back to Shania again, which I continue to ask Dan, what is her name?

Shania. Well, true, true. But in the movie, we have no clue still. So there’s that whole awkward hug scene, cams in the hospital, the whole thing, blah, blah, blah. And it’s just like, I literally asked him, I was like, , are they friends? Are they neighbors? Are they friends with benefits? Like what the F is going on?

Very immature relationship. That can’t be defined by boyfriend, girlfriend, basically. Eric wants to know if they’re fucking or not. That’s Oh, they’re definitely fucking, yeah. Right. Definitely. Is it that point or is it the, like he’s still holding in his farts around her. What? Where are we in this way? It can be both, Steve.

No, no. It really can’t. [00:52:00] Well, not, I started getting that motion going. Guess what? You might a little nitro.

No, see, see what you’ve missed this whole time is his arc of he is still grieving over his decade. Old dead white. Well that’s, that was so long ago. Yeah. Yeah. So that was So Steve, he could look, that was, that was back during, uh, phenomenon or something. That was some other. Steve, listen, he’s got a sad sob story.

Oh yeah. That’s how he gets it in. He’s got, he’s got a garage to park it in. Yeah. without having to pay rent. , . I’ll contend that maybe the woman that died in the opening scene isn’t the wife. She just might be the baby mama because he’s so non-committal with Shania. We don’t know if he was married or not.

No, Eric. Eric. What we’re saying is if you have the sad story, it’s like why buy the cow when you get the sex for free? . Sorry, I missed that point. I’m so, I’m still . I had this other vision of a baseball [00:53:00] bat and spinning. It’s just, it’s outta, whoa. I mean, I don’t know what Walter’s penis looks like. Uh, . All right.

We need to stop. Where? Where is this conversation going? This is, wait, this is rated E, right? We’re talking about, we’re talking about mature adult relationships. Come on. I mean, I mean, we’re on everything I learned from movies, right? I mean, this is everything I learned from porn, . Yeah. Sad story gets it in.

That’s definitely one of our major things. We’ve learned that, and the net is the ultimate weapon. The relationship was defined in the beginning. They’re donut friends.

Oh. So Eric’s gonna put on repeat at his house. You love it so much now. I mean, I was scribbling notes and literally falling asleep at the same time. So I had a hard time rereading them, trying to remember how this went down. Uh, yeah. We get a whole thing where Sam goes and talks to Cam in the hospital and he is like, I’m sorry, I feel like I pushed you away and you’re a good man, a [00:54:00] good father and a good husband if you can do that.

Well, that’s all it was going to be. Then, I don’t know, I just have written down, are you gonna join me again? And I’m like, seriously? Okay, whatever. It’s gonna be lots of work to get that car that you wrapped around a tree or whatever earlier in the movie. around this same time in the movie is a scene from one of the races that I think it might have been right before this.

The funny thing is Linsky wins or something and there’s this random guy that I guess is a fan or something, one of the commentators or something, and he grabs Linsky cowboy hat and like puts on on like, actually he is gonna walk away with it. And Eric’s reaction to that was hilarious. He’s like, What the hell’s that dude’s role?

didn’t fit anywhere in the movie, but it was just weird. His wings Houser here. That dude was the money. I think he was one of the sponsors or something like that. He was mellow yellow. He’s the guy that owns the car dealership and sponsors the race team and all that. Alinsky’s, just the figurehead? No, he’s holding the bank note.

He’s dang on the bank note in front of him, he’s the one that put 10 million into this movie only to get about seven grand back. He can have the damn hat if he wants it. Minus John [00:55:00] Travolta is 30% anyway. Oh yeah. So then we get the scene. Okay, so after having the teary hospital scene and all that, damn is going to talk to Bob and is basically like, Hey, uh, you made an offer to buy that uh, Mustang from me a while back.

Is that offer still standing? I’m. Well, how much was it for ? Like, are, are we talking like a hundred grand or like six grand? I, I don’t know. What, how long ago was that offer? The market has changed and, and he is basically like pay my son’s expenses and stuff in the hospital or you know, whatever the hell it’s for.

And he mentions he’s retiring too. And Bob’s like, well that’s too bad cuz uh, I wanted to win that championship and I wanna beat you. So I want you to keep racing and uh, then I’m going to beat you the old fashioned way. Having somebody else wreck you out? Yeah, pretty much . But Travolta had the exact same response I did and I was like, so are you buying the car or not?

Bob Vance. He did say the offer for was 50 grand. Oh, was it? 50 grand. Oh wow. Dan’s only watched a movie three times. He [00:56:00] hasn’t memorized, don’t forget. But we have to remind people the significance of this car. Yes. It was the one that he bought for his wife after he won his fifth championship. So what his wife died in, right.

It seemed like it, but no, it seemed like goes, oh my God, let’s go out for a drive. And that’s when the accident happened. But apparently it was like a week later in the runner car or something. But did anyone catch how, I thought they said the accident was in the rain and there was no rain in that flashback.

Yeah, it was. They didn’t mention it was in the rain. That was part of his sad story. So I assume he added that on and the years later, you know, to secure some Shania Twain. That don’t impress me much.

The movement got the church . That’s kinda like Stuy telling how he lost his leg with the length of the alligator. That was a, that was like eight foot. It is my leg at eight. I’m pretty sure it was 12 feet. It’s my story to tell. I’ll tell it as a 12 foot gator. You can tell it as an eight when you lose your leg.

The best part about the stumpy leg scene, [00:57:00] take that however you want to take it. is that it was the only exposition in the entire film. It was a complete yes. Thought it was a complete story and. Great. Now I know something about one character. I don’t know his real name. It’s just Stumpy , but I’ve got something to go on now I’m gonna assume that was the part written by the writer of Pumpkinhead

So are we saying Stumpy’s the most fleshed out character in this entire film? 1000%, yes. Excellent. Yeah, guys, we remember his name. It’s true. We had a struggle to think about camera or whatever, and uh, , I remember Cindy and Bob Linsky let put Bob Linsky, Bob Band, advance Refrigeration. So then we cut to, uh, Travolta jumping in the Mustang, doing some donuts at the school in front of, I guess where Shania teaches or something, because of course she’s an elementary school teacher.

Of course. All right. Did you guys catch the significance of the Mustang though as compared to previous episodes you’ve been on [00:58:00] with us? Was it a from another movie? Yeah. Well, similar. It was a Model up, but same Body Style as another movie. So now I’m testing your from God in 60 seconds. Yes, yes. Say that was.

Six. I thought it was a 60. Was it 67 Shelby or whatever. So not the Nicholas Cage one. The original gone in 60 seconds. Oh, it’s a, it’s a mock one version and his is a boss 3 0 2. So it’s just, you know, a package and it’s a horsepower, but it’s the same body style. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. I’ve seen the remake, let’s say conservatively a hundred times, but

But the original one I’ve seen like once . The Linsky one? Yeah. Just, just like the fast and ne furious. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The 1954 version and the, the one everybody’s familiar with. Oh. Oh, we’re not talking about Point break, which I’ve also seen a hundred times and it’s exact remake. Fast and Furious not Right.

That’s true. . And then, uh, the Bad Boys remake Fast and Furious too. Too fast. Too Furious. Remake of the gonna 60 sings. One of my favorite parts is when the, the swing and weight knocks [00:59:00] the Jeep Police vehicle through the wall. And he goes up and he’s like, are you okay? He’s like, yeah, I’m fine. He’s like, are you sure you just got knocked through a wall?

Timothy Aon, he’s fantastic. I mean, that bit of acting right there. Is 1000 times better than everything we witnessed for 84 minutes. Just that one little thing. I just have to say that, like, that trope of like, are you okay? Uh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just did something amazing. Is one of like my favorites.

And Death to Moochy has the best scene at the end. Are you all right? I don’t know. It’s kind of fucked up to begin with.

Well, I got a question to ask y’all. Do you have a pretty penny? Jesus Christ? Is that a pretty mouse? Are you talking about my hole? I’m confused. A good night everybody. Good night. No, that’s what he kept asking him. That’s what he kept asking him about the uh, a Mustang trade. Do you have a pretty penny? Do you have a pretty penny?

Like how many times are you gonna [01:00:00] say it? It’s gonna cost him a pretty penny. Okay, I get it. You got an arm and a leg. You got an arm and a leg. Stump didn’t . I don’t got an arm and a leg. Do you have stump? You stay outta this . Stuffy’s, like that is ableist as fuck. . I don’t got an arm and a leg, but I got a 1950 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, panhead blah, blah, blah.

No, I, I ain’t got an arm and a leg, but I got two pretty pennies. Then you just rubb. It’s pronounced penis. You rubbed those pennies together then, okay, Uhhuh, , Stumpy’s, a whole new meaning. Now, was the big reveal before or after he bought the car. Which big reveal? Well, okay, so he gets the Mustang, he does the donuts, he then takes it to the racetrack and then to drop it off at the dealership.

And I’m like, well you just knocked 10 grand off that easy . You need to wash it. You’re gonna need to get that washed. Yeah, you gonna need to wash it. And then he goes to see Shania because I assume she’s like, what the fuck were you doing in front of my classroom early today? Hold on, hold, hold on a second.

Did he like [01:01:00] Uber from there? He walked. Ah, okay. Yeah, that’s why it’s nighttime. When he is in Shania, he just got home. It’s, it’s only a five mile radius. What we’re talking about here, small town thing is within five miles he hitchhiked on a tractor or something. And the only reason it’s all a five miles is cuz the racetrack takes about a half a mile of it.

it’s like half the town. Where’s that baseball bat again? But then we get the wonderful romantic scene where Sam is talking to Shania. I don’t even think we’ve found out her name’s Becca yet. And he is like, I think I love you. I think I’m in love with you. Okay. So what do you think? Your Elvis or something?

Whatever. . Okay, cool. Let’s talk about it tomorrow. I safe. You don’t have to say I was blown away. She did not. Yeah, that would’ve been perfect had she done the shush and then put her finger on his mouth or something. Cause it was, I mean, her reaction was so flat. Yeah. . Like all the acting in this movie, , [01:02:00] it was, I don’t know if it was natural, like that scene was adlibbed and she didn’t know what to say, but it was like, who literally.

Shania do not react. . Yeah. I mean, I’m like, I didn’t, I did get it. Like it was so awkward. She can say something like, I’m sorry I wasn’t listening. What? Can you say that again? . And then Sam’s like, ah, fuck it. Nevermind. Roll credits, guys. No . There were so many times this movie could have just ended and saved us The grief.

Yeah. At the beginning. . See, then we get the scene where Sam has 80 grand in cash that he is gonna offer from the Mustang. Right? I from the Mustang and I guess. Other stuff. Cause if, if he’s mentioned 50 grand earlier than, I don’t know, maybe another 30 lying around from suing Bob Linsky over, uh, trying to kill his son.

I don’t know. Bob, did Stumpy give him money because there was something about that? No. Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, stumpy ba ba basically he’s haggling with this other guy who I assume gonna be like a stock car driver. Cause [01:03:00] he’s not that great of an actor. Basically. He has like this chassis and everything for the car that he wants to get.

But he is like, I, I, I can’t do it for less than 85 grand or something like that. And then that’s when stuffy’s like, Well, I got that 51 Panhead, blah blah . I’ll do it, throw it in for the other five. And I’m like, is that a good deal? Or I, I, I asked Dan the same question. Okay, . I was like, what’s that worth? Is that a good deal?

So Dan, let me ask you this. What would you have paid for that thing or this hot car or for the pan Heaven. He’d have found it on Facebook Marketplace for 2,500 bucks and he’d had talked ’em down to $20 cuz it’s got a busted starter. Yep. And he’s like, I can fix that. Most of those were Kickstarter, but I’ll go with that.

I mean, you’re, you’re the cheapest racer. I know, dude. Tell me, what would you have paid for that? What would you have done in trade for that? Frugal. He’s a frugal racer. No, he’s fucking cheap. . He’s a frugal. He’s just fucking cheap. . I am a cheap skate. I will not deny it, but I do [01:04:00] well for being a cheap scap.

I think the five grand for one of those motors, like in today’s not like definitely well worth it. What about for that late model that’s super late model that he was picking up? 80 grand. Do you think that’s a bargain? No, I don’t think that’s a bargain. Yeah. Say uh, that that’s where I was like, yeah, maybe there’s somebody else selling literally anything.

You know . Yeah. But this is the only guy in that five mile radius. I take my money and go back and buy that Mustang and he doesn’t have a car anymore, so, right. Yeah. Just Uber out there. You gotta give the old man credit for being able to read off his summit and Jag’s racing parts list. That was pretty good.

I mean, I give more acting than we saw in the whole movie. I got this Ro Ambulator and this turbo charger and this blah blah blah that. That was his one line he had, he practiced that for a week. Yeah. He didn’t need a cue card or anything. That’s why they hired him. How many car parts can you list in a row in one minute?

Camou, , Camou, . No, no, no. That’s the name of our lead. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I got confused. got that. Got that. S d Ignition. Yeah. [01:05:00] Flux capacitor. Is Sam Deman Monroe a a car part? . But let’s talk about the next best, greatest part of the film. Oh, stumpy story. That. But then, so we had the radio show, the stumpy story and the music montage.

Oh, Jesus. Yes. Wait, wait. Here was a music. Did I like fall asleep? There were two of them. There were two music montages. The first one I was wondering if Shania was singing. Yeah. Oh, the national anthem. That’s not a montage. No, no, no, no. Oh yeah. No, no. It, it was the father and son. They’re like building, putting the car together and all that stuff.

And yeah, I thought it was Shania singing too, and I was waiting for it to like pan back and, uh, Becker, whatever character is two guys working, take , you know, whatever. Like in the scene I’d be like, holy shit. Just got a star. What song was playing while they were working on the car? Some generic, yeah, that don’t impress me much.

Country twang bullshit. It was all [01:06:00] pancakes and sausage and pain, you know, all that kind of thing. But the second song was the big music montage. You know, when they’re, they’re turning them ratchets and putting them wheels on and getting that car ready for the track with that montage. I like how like in the middle of Montage it has something pop up, say one week until the new season opener, which was the championship race.

The montage is still going on by the way. So we get like another two minutes and then it pops up. Race day. Oh, hold on. I wanna know how to . I wanna . I wanna know how Tanya missed three minutes of an 84 minute movie. It’s a blackout. Were you abducted by aliens? Like it’s a bake to do. It’s the third thing. A scene in the movie.

Well, I remember they were putting the car again. Her brain turned off to try and save her. I remember they were putting, she got up and walked out to get a drink refill. Probably I, I, I, I remember them putting the car together and then I remember it being suddenly the first race of the season championship race, the most important [01:07:00] race of the year,

I think when I heard it was the first race of the season, which was also a championship race. I like stop. Well see. No, it was the Race of Champions. It wasn’t a championship race. Is that the distinction I missed? Yes. It’s the race of champion now I’m like almost wanna like rewatch this to pick up all the things.

How was Cam a champion? Cam wasn’t a champion. They did definitely say it was the most important race of the year and I was like, get the fuck outta here . There’s like 30 more of these most important basketball game of the year. That’s the way NASCAR does it though. I mean the Daytona 500 I believe kicks off the NASCAR season.

Yeah. And it’s arguably the most important race of the year. Well, yeah. Well that’s marketing. Well, exactly. So there you go. They gotta market the dirt track season. Did you not pay now full that stadium malls dirt track. Try to market game number 48 of 162, like a baseball season. . Oh, it’s su. Super important.

It’s against our rivals. The other team from three states away. Then we’ve played five other times. . We’re also gonna play at their place four [01:08:00] times next week. , can we just go back to the baseball bat part? I mean,

no guys, cuz it’s race day, so that’s time to trade some paint roll credits. How many times did they say trading paint? They said it like a hundred times. Like four times at least. Yeah. I think you could do a drinking game just on how many times they say trading paint. Oh, that’s why she blacked out. Well, I mean, look at it this way.

What are the things, what are the things they can’t say in a stock car, dirt track NASCAR movie anymore. They can’t say good movie. Robins Racing. . Robins Racing Shaken Bake. There’s like a million of ’em of it. So what did they come up? Work trade and paint a paint Pi at the Home Depot. Paint Don’t hurt.

Here, I’ll give you this can give that can.

Other than Talent Knight, what other movies have they ever used? Shaken Bacon there? It doesn’t matter. It can’t be reused by another movie. That’s the whole thing, right? The Julie, the Julia Child movie had shaken bacon. Come [01:09:00] with me. If you want to live. You can’t use that. Hey Steve, I’ve got some Valspar if you’ll trade me some bear.

All right. . . I got that. Sherwin Williams. Anybody wants to trade up? Is that interior or exterior paint? That’s that semigloss exterior. Oh shit. I’m in. But if I got some rustoleum rattle cans, you ain’t gotta, hold on. How did I know? How did I know you were gonna say that? Like get that weak sauce outta here.

They came in the back of the Mercury Sable that he’s got . Wait, what color is it? It’s rust Sea foam. Green rust color.

Dan’s the opposite of Henry Ford. He’s like, it comes in whatever color you want, as long as it’s rust . I got Rustoleum rust colored rust paint. Yeah, I just wanted all the match . All right, so it’s race day. Um, Every day is Dre’s day. Bob ends up like spinning out cam and a yellow flag is pulled out and he needs to start his [01:10:00] engine before they lap him.

Otherwise, he’s disqualified. They said he was gonna be disqualified a pay car, and all the other cars went by him. I’ve never known that to happen. You’re just a lap down, which means you’re a lap down. I’ve never seen somebody get LAPD and become disqualified. Why was that tool bag that wrecked cam not disqualified or whatever in that race when he took the son?

Because they traded paint, because plot, because plot, I dunno. Plot holes, plot holes. And of course he starts adjusting time, but he’s one lap behind with two laps left in ten second laps, . And I’m like, then he’s fucking done. This is math. He’s, but no, apparently he says, fuck your 20 mile an hour speed limit.

I’m punching it up to Fitty. And he goes around. The same thing happened in Days of Thunder. Didn’t he like get spun outta or wherever? He’s like, get me out in front of the Pace car. Get me out in front of the Pace car. Exactly right. God, I need to watch Days of Thunder. I thought the same thing happened in Death Race 2000 when they sped up the [01:11:00] camera speed.

And that’s how we ended up where we are. Yeah. , oh, oh, I, I, I have that. He got up to second place by editing . Is that how you do it? Okay, so he spun out. He’s got one lap left, two laps left, whatever the hell it was. Why the hell weren’t you driving that fast for the other 50 lap? And you could have been laughing everybody else.

It’s the same reason in Ford versus Ferrari. He wasn’t in the top gear. He was cruising it like one 50 or whatever. He is like, I got a little bit more in it and he just keeps going. It was his first race back then in around that baseball bat. I mean the track a couple times, getting a little dizzy, losing his focus.

Doesn’t wanna get another wreck. So yeah, he gets up to second place by editing. It’s the final stretch. There’s one lap left now, and he gets the inside line. Cue the music. Oh, he won, I guess. Okay. That’s cool. That was cut. Weird. Um, , I got lost, like, right. Oh, we’re coming around the final stretch and it’s over.

That’s, it’s like a quarter mile track or Michael Bay jumps in and edited that section. Yeah, dot we’re done [01:12:00] and yada yada yada birthday party. more lack of enthusiasm for a victory as well. I, I will admit, I fell asleep during this most exciting championship race of champion races that aren’t, Champions of the first race of the year and Dan kind of nudges me.

He is like, Hey, check out this birthday party. I’m like, what? Why is this important? . Oh yeah. Okay. So yeah, so he wins the race. We hit the, the music cue of the, I’m just a pole boy doing the best I can. And like Sam and Shania kiss and there’s bottles being pop. The mc of this event is just so fucking slow.

slow. I feel like it was like the last scene in the movies. Like, we need 80 minutes. We’re only at 76. I got this all rightful. Congratulations Cambri [01:13:00] Monroe for your victory. Oh yeah. I just thank my dad and uh, I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for you. And I’m like, yeah, he’s talking about a seed.

Yeah. Steve, this is when the Quaaludes began to take home . Yeah, pretty much. And then I’ve written down, wow, a dozen fans are there to share this moment, right? All 12. There was the one black guy in the back who looked really surprised to be there. I was just trying to go get some chicken. I stumbled into the wrong place.

I I, I have to ask, cause the dozen fans or whatever being in the stands, that’s about the most realistic thing in this movie, right? They’re all like, related to the drivers. They, it’s like a church basketball game where like, either they’re related to somebody playing in the game or they’re just waiting till their games up next.

I thought it was pretty realistic that nobody knew who Shania Twain was. . I mean, as far as like the real life racing. I mean, Dan goes to these actual races in real life. He doesn’t [01:14:00] compete in them, but he, he definitely watches them. And I mean, Dan, you’re always sending us video back. The stands are pretty.

Yeah. I mean, what did I say? There’s always that one guy who’s not related to anybody who’s jerking off on the ground. . Oh, . I think we found ’em. . Well, if you listen to Eddie and Dan’s stories, they always start with my cousin. Like he has like 500 cousins, right? I can never keep track. I’m sure when he’s at the dirt track.

Everybody’s a cousin . Good chance of it. Ok to all of them. There you go. Yes. That was a little bit skewed, but you know, you gotta look at their budget. I mean, look how much they were projected to yield. Maybe 10,000 is what the goal was. They couldn’t afford all the extras to fill this. Oh, no, no. They’re trying to get millions, not thousands of dollars.

Yeah babe. That was, nobody makes a movie for thousands of dollars. and, and, and yet this one is and gets John Travolta in it. Yeah. They wanted earn tens of dollars. . Yeah. Like was this a high school [01:15:00] or freshman college? Like movie Keystone project. I don’t, no, it’s more middle school level. It’s like one of Travolta’s grandkids or something and like, Hey, uh, uh, grandpa John, um, , can you you help me out world credits?

And like the wife or whatever is like hanging out of the window of the car, like waving a flag. Like yeah, yeah, we won. Suck a dick. Bitches. . . I think he’s paraphrasing. The big thing that I took issue with and I told Eric when we were watching, I was like, wait till the end because like, I don’t know why I got under my skin so bad at the scene where Cam and Cindy are outside of the trailer talking.

They wake the baby at the very end at the credits. It’s the baby’s first birthday. And I’m like, the math is not adding up here. You can wake a baby who’s almost a year old, they still sleep. No, what, what he’s leaving out of this is that if you paid really close attention to the racing sequences, as riveting as they were Yeah.

It’s more than a year. Yeah. Cause it goes through several seasons. Yeah, yeah, [01:16:00] yeah. Exactly. Every race was a championship race too. Most important race of the year. I’m like from a perspective, I guess. Well, they were doing S C A and then they were doing B M W club and then they were doing Porsche club. So they were doing EM two.

They had to win all the series, all the championships, double elimination tournament. You saw all those trophies. So this was like actually my fault, like at the party at the end, , it’s not super clear, it’s a baby’s birthday, especially when they blow candles and the baby’s not there. So I’m like, is this some dumb shit where they bought babies for his birthday stuff to celebrate his first major win because that’s some dumb shit I would do.

like just cross out. Congratulations on your first, and then the only thing they have is birthday. That makes so much more sense, doesn’t it? I think we know what we’re doing for Summer Bash next year. ? Yes. So wait a minute. It wasn’t a birthday party after all. Like my, my mind is blown now. Like, I gotta, this is my series.

I mean, we’re skipping to the end, but Who blows out the [01:17:00] candles? What do you mean skipping to the end? We’ve already talked about the plot. We finished the movie. This is the End . I mean others slightly more, but yeah, the, it’s, it’s the wife that actually blows out the candles, not the kids. So it’s like wow, wow, wow.

So the, the race that he won that time was, it wasn’t a champ, it was the one race that wasn’t a championship. That was the Race of Champions. Okay. So maybe it’s his first win at a Race of Champions. So maybe that comes in with that. So, I mean, they’re celebrating something. Hey, there’s always a reason for celebrating being alive, man.

That’s for sure. Celebrating the end of the movie. That’s a good celebration. That’s what it’s, amen. Amen. The credits came on and the party started. Literally No, but did you, did you watch through the credits cuz there was extended scenes? No. What you lie. I’m not lying. There was some more, this is nuts in the Marvel universe.

What the hell are you talking about? ? Yeah. Nick Fury showed up and wanted to know if, uh, John Travolta wanted to come back as, uh, we need you. The, the Punisher nemesis. I don’t, by the way, there is a Punisher logo on the wall during that birthday party thing at the end too. It was like, oh, you slide dog.

[01:18:00] Yeah. Friend of the podcast, Thomas Jane. Woo. I wanna say the baby showed up in the credits because I feel like there was a baby. But y’all are saying there was no baby. Did he just walk into the scene? Yeah. No. No. So the baby’s there when they walk in the door and they’re all like, yeah, yeah. Bouncing the baby.

They’re not shaking the baby. They bet they’re bouncing the baby. Shaking the hell. Yeah. They shake the baby. But then that’s a the candle, the candle cer blowing out. Scene and cake serving. Scene. No baby. Yeah, just adults. They put baby down for an app and then they, oh, baby was holding the camera. Baby was holding the camera.

make yourself useful here. Camera Raider Jr. , Sam Cam. The baby pops out like Mortal Combat. It’s like dusty, dusty, , . It’s birthday. Oh, that was the other thing too, the like, it’s a girl stuffing up there. I’m like, oh, is it like a gender reveal party? Like, oh no, it’s a first birthday party. Did we not know it was a girl bef for the last year?

Look, I’m telling you, you babe, this is because they won the big trophy and they just [01:19:00] pulled out all the decoration theory from the last, yeah, from the last party or whatever and yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause again, this is some dumb shit I would do . Why? Why is the end of this movie so complex? Now? You guys are telling me there was a gender repeal I didn’t pick up on.

No. No. Okay. That probably when N was like, no, no. They’re just celebrating his first win. It’s just, that’s the decorations they had and it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I would’ve assumed that the movie like this, all the stereotypes included, that it would’ve been the third generation dark track racer. It’s gonna be another son.

But now you’re telling me it’s a girl. Nobody wants one of them. No. Hasn’t. Wow. I only wanna be worried about one penis. Not all of them. I am. My mind is blown. Now, Dr. Bald did say earlier his mama would’ve raised if his daddy would’ve let her, so maybe the granddaughter will raise. You’re reading this much into the, why is there so much packed into the ending?

Y’all didn’t even wash the credits. All right. Well, what, what happens? What happens then? They’re setting up for trading paint too. Don’t remember. [01:20:00] I, I, I wasn’t brave enough to stick around to see if, you know, they get tied into the Fast and Furious franchise , like Vin Diesel shows up in a parking garage, like, We did good driving out there.

Family. I got, yeah, I thought about saving the world and change your name to Brian. We’re family. You guys are Gary. Gary Cole shows up and he is like, I’m gonna need you to work on Saturday . That’d be great. . I mean, the affect of everybody in this film is on par with office space. That is for sure. But wow, I didn’t know.

I’m now, now you’re gonna make me go back and re-watch this. I need to re-watch the ending apparently, because I have missed so much . Uh, so yeah. So guys, that’s, uh, trading paint. Would you recommend watching it at least three times to get its intricacies? I think you get them all by listening to this podcast.

Yeah. How many ways can I say no? Nine . Which would you rather watch again? Trading Paint or the Charlie Sheen Porsche movie. Charlie Sheen. Porsche movie. I would rather watch paint dry than trading [01:21:00] paint. is the prequel clock primer . There is, it’s pronounced primer and it’s a time travel movie that’s really confusing, but very interesting.

Sounds super confusing. Infinitely more interesting than this movie. So to take an offer him, Steve and Izzy. So the Charlie Sheen Porsche movie with DB Sweeney from the 1980s is known as No Man’s Land. We talked about that on the trivia episode. It was written by Dick Wolf from Law and Order.

Everybody does that when I say that. Well, that’s when is it? What isn’t it When, uh, Dick Wolf’s name comes up? It’s the

Like, that will sound cute. I think Brad, I would watch the No Man’s Land on repeat over watching this again. Oh, just watch. Cutting edge. Yeah. Topic . So Steven Izzy, is this the worst movie you’ve ever watched? No. Fuck no. Oh, no, no, [01:22:00] no, no. Come on. No, no. This is, have you ever heard our podcast? This is not like the worst movie we’ve seen this month.

This is the worst racing movie we’ve seen. Yeah, we watch Trash . But, uh, if, if you wanna a good version of this movie, I mean, I like the movie Driven, even though I know it’s pure trash. It’s directed by Renny Harlan. It’s got Sylvester Stallone Till Feiger. If you want the good version of this movie, you’ve watched Days of Thunderer, thousand percent.

Oh yeah. I mean, you mean Top Gun, top Gun in a Car. You know what? Top Gun doesn’t have that Days of Thunder. Robert Duval. That’s right. Tanya’s number one, Hollywood heartthrob. Robert Duval. I dunno if he’s number one. Yeah. Instead we got Val Kilmer. Tom Scar, uh, Goose momentarily. This movie was much better than any melatonin I’ve ever taken.

so much better. We’re getting a good night’s rest. I gotta tell you, if it wasn’t for the noise of the race scenes, [01:23:00] it’s like the same level. Level, the whole way through it. Cause it’s so monotone and the acting was just horrible. I think it could have been way better if they had better actors or better acting had been done.

Better writing didn’t exist. If it was a better movie, it would’ve been a better movie. This was a better movie. It would’ve been so much better on if there was at least one pair of boobs, should have had at least one pair of boobs. And we brought it down. It doesn’t 2000, there was no Hand grenade, which is Steve’s favorite part of that movie.

He forgets about it. Every time we watch it, it comes up and he giggles like a schoolgirl when it’s amazing. He giggles and goes, God damnit. That was in the movie. Which movie? A Death Race, 2000. David Harry. It’s a ham grenade . So another Stallone racing movie. . Yeah. Another Stallone racing movie. Speaking of movies that are way worse than this one, nobody ever watched Billy Jack.

What ? Who? God. Yeah. Billy Jack is the best Billy Jack movie and they made four of ’em. I know. And they’re all terrible. So we’re gonna have to put a [01:24:00] disclaimer on this episode and apologize to our audience for bringing this gem to their attention. How are we gonna reconcile with our touring fans and what, what are we gonna review the next time you guys think, Ooh, ooh, let’s see.

Racing movies. We got talk about, I mean, we could talk Ford v. Ferrari, cause uh, my mom’s boyfriend. Shelby’s nephew. Ooh, guess what? They’re all, all the Shelbys are assholes. Wait, spoiler.

I’m sure that shocks no one in the car community. Right? . We’ll have our adoring fans will have to wait and find out. We don’t wanna give ’em any spoilers as to what we’re gonna review next. Oh, Tanya’s got something. Do you see the Jackie Chan movie? Well, the Jackie Chan racing one, apparently he’s like in a driver’s suit and holding the helmet.

What? Oh, uh, wait, the Can Cannonball Run, wasn’t he in there? It’s called Thunderbolt May, 1995. Oh yeah. Thunderbolt. Oh yeah. See that mechanic? Jackie Chan has to be the [01:25:00] super criminal street racer and he’s like all suited up in the car. Yeah, I’m down for Thunderbolt or any of those shitty Herbie movies we can call.

I think that we have found our next movie, Thunderbolt. And if we’re gonna do Herbie, we definitely gotta do the one with the Chin, the Lost Herbie movie. You know I’m talking about right. The Bruce Campbell. Yeah. Yeah, the TV movie. I think that’s the same one that it has a friend of the podcast. Dana Gould in it?

Or was he in the Lindsay Lohan one? Never Go. I think he was Alon. I don’t, I don’t remember. He has a small part guys, are you sure you don’t wanna do Racing Stripes? Yep. What are we talking about? What? What kind of movie is that? Because it’s racing horses babe? No, it’s Racing A Zebra and Frankie Munez does the voice

That is definitely not what I was thinking. Car Racing, babe. Thunderball, Jackie Chan. Don’t mess this up, . Okay. Otherwise we’ll get another trading game. Something top Something. Apparently there’s another Travolta racing movie. What’s, there’s another Travolta racing movie. There’s [01:26:00] a it’s, it’s speedboats.

Yeah. Yeah. Speed Kills. Oh yes. It’s horrible. We’ve seen that. That’s a terrible movie. Don’t do it. It’s better than this movie though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s least action in it. Look, whenever you add water to racing, it’s better. . Sorry, car Racers. That’s right. You should only have races in the rain. Wait, that’s a movie about a dog.

Anyway, right? The book was better spoiler. Well, listeners, I think we have given you a proper taste of maybe what a normal, everything I learned from movies episode is like Stephen Izzy have really ramped it up this episode. Whew. Obviously we’re reviewing one of their all-time favorite films here, so if you’re interested in learning more about their show, how do they go about finding out more?

We can’t be found. Shut up. No . Don’t tell them that. They won’t look. No. You can find us on all the major podcasters under everything I learned from movies. Or you can hit us up directly on Twitter, Facebook and Paton on it. E i L f movies. That’s [01:27:00] everything I learned from movies. Uh, babe, are you on social media at all?

I am. You can find me everywhere at Untidy Venus. That’s a goddess who’s batted housekeeping. I’m on all the social medias at Untidy Venus. See what kinds of crazy stuff I’m up to. I also sell my goods and wears@untidyvenus.etsy.com, and you can join my Patreon for as little as $4 a month. You can get a sticker of my design, waterproof UV resisted mailed with a handwritten note to your home.

There’s lots of levels. Come and join. Steve? Yes. Where can we find you? As mentioned at E I F movies this month we’re wrapping up Nick August Cage, which is the most wonderful time of the year when we talk about Nicholas Cage movies, and then we’re going into Super Sexy Sing in September. Woo. That’s right, baby.

You like musicals from the eighties. All right, but we’re gonna talk about ’em anyway. It’s gonna be great. . Taste the Apples. Taste the apples grease. Two Voy of the Rock Aliens. A whole bunch of shit coming out. It’s gonna be great. Hey, where can we find you [01:28:00] guys? We are always available online@gtmotorsports.org org G.

That’s GT as in Graham Touring Motorsports with an s.org. We’re on social at Gran Touring Motorsports most everywhere except for Twitter, where we’re GT Motorsports 14. We are also on Patreon, patreon.com/gt Motorsports, and you can search for the show either by Gran Touring or Break Fix on all your favorite pod catchers or music apps, whichever you prefer.

Oh, and on that note, well guys, thank you. Thank you as always. Well, thanks for having us. That was a riot because I think we pulled more value out of that movie than the movie Pulled Value.

I blame Mount Man, Dan for watching it three times and getting all those questions we had. He’s giving it all the views on it. , he is the 31% on Rotten Tomatoes,

But don’t impress me.[01:29:00]

If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out on www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at crew chief gt motorsports.org.

We’d love to hear from. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig [01:30:00] Newton’s, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00:00 Introducing the Guests and the Movie
  • 00:01:14 Initial Impressions and Movie Setup
  • 00:01:39 Diving into the Movie Review
  • 00:05:11 Movie Production and Cast Discussion
  • 00:07:45 Plot Analysis and Critique
  • 00:22:21 Racing Scenes and Technical Details
  • 00:45:45 Analyzing the Crash Scene
  • 00:47:10 Hospital Drama and Confessions
  • 00:48:17 NASCAR and Drug Testing
  • 00:50:42 The Prodigal Son Hospital Scene
  • 00:51:14 Relationship Dynamics and Confusion
  • 00:54:09 The Final Race and Victory
  • 00:57:42 Post-Race Reflections and Critique
  • 01:20:38 Movie Comparisons and Recommendations
  • 01:26:35 Closing Remarks and Future Plans

Bonus Content

Learn More

Steve and Izzy watch bad movies, drink good beer, funny third thing. Cheers! Learn more about them by catching their podcast “Everything I Learned from Movies (EILFM)” on all your favorite podcast apps. Or follow them on social @eilfmovies. Look forward to more quarterly crossovers with this dynamic duo and the GTM team! 

The Cast: A Who’s Who of “Wait, What?”

  • John Travolta as Sam Monroe, whose southern accent sounds like Michael Scott doing a cowboy impression.
  • Shania Twain as Becca (we think?), a schoolteacher/fishing buddy/girlfriend who lives rent-free in our heads but barely registers in the plot.
  • Michael Madsen as Bob Linsky, the villain with a cowboy hat and a dealership empire.
  • Kevin Dunn as Stumpy, the only character with a backstory—and a missing leg.
  • Barry Corbin as Sheriff Buck Taylor, uncredited but unforgettable in a radio call-in scene that steals the show.

The Plot: If You Can Call It That

  • Cam switches teams. Sam gets mad. Cam’s wife quits her job. Sam punches a guy in a bar. Stumpy offers to drive him home.
  • There’s a flashback to a car accident that may or may not have killed Sam’s wife. Or girlfriend. Or someone.
  • Sam races again in a car that was previously a “turd” but now magically wins races.
  • Cam gets wrecked. Sam saves him. They reconcile in a hospital scene straight out of Driven.
  • Sam sells his Mustang (not Eleanor, but close) to pay for Cam’s recovery and build a new race car.
  • They race again. Cam wins. There’s a birthday party. Or maybe it’s a trophy party. Or a gender reveal. We’re still not sure.

The Commentary: More Entertaining Than the Movie

Steve and Izzy from Everything I Learned From Movies joined us to roast this cinematic tire fire with the kind of energy that only comes from watching it three times (thanks, Mountain Man Dan). Highlights include:

  • Debating whether Shania Twain is real or a grief-induced hallucination.
  • Comparing Travolta’s acting to a robot with Botox.
  • Reimagining NASCAR with baseball bats and beer bongs.
  • Spotting plot holes big enough to drive a dirt track hauler through.
  • Wondering why the baby’s birthday party happens after a year of racing that should’ve aged the kid into kindergarten.

🎬 Final Verdict: Watch the Podcast, Not the Movie

Would we recommend Trading Paint? Only if you’re looking for a sleep aid or a masterclass in how not to make a racing movie. But would we recommend our episode about it? Absolutely. It’s packed with laughs, trivia, and enough snark to fill a pit lane.

Good enough, Mountain Man Dan watched it 3x!

You can find Steve & Izzy at Everything I Learned From Movies and follow their podcast for more cinematic dumpster dives. And for all things motorsports, racing culture, and podcast chaos, visit us at gtmotorsports.org or support us on Patreon.

We promise: no Travolta. Just trading laughs.


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