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From VW Roots to Digital Legacy: Ed Sheets & the Bold Vision Behind TunerLog

September 15, 2020

In the latest episode of the Break/Fix podcast, hosts Brad and Eric sit down with Ed Sheets, founder of Bold City Motorsports, for a deep dive into his journey from Maryland’s VW scene to building a purpose-driven motorsports hub in Jacksonville, Florida—and now, launching a groundbreaking app called TunerLog.

Ed’s automotive journey began in the early ’90s in Bel Air, Maryland, where he and a group of VW enthusiasts formed a local club. Frustrated by the lack of quality service for enthusiasts, Ed and his partner Dave Graf founded New German Performance (NGP), a shop built on genuine passion and technical excellence. After a decade of success, Ed sold his share in 2007 and relocated to Jacksonville for a corporate role – but the car bug never left.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Inspired by his son’s growing interest in cars, Ed returned to the scene with a broader vision: Bold City Motorsports. More than just a shop, Bold City is a community hub for German car enthusiasts, hosting events, supporting track days, and fostering a culture of respect and motorsport education. “If we do it right, the future is bright,” Ed says, emphasizing the importance of paying it forward and creating safe, rewarding experiences for the next generation.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break Fix Podcast
00:34 Meet Ed Sheets from Bold City Motorsports
01:06 Ed’s Journey from Maryland to Jacksonville
03:55 The Birth of Bold City Motorsports
05:21 Track Cars and Family Stories
07:11 The Infamous Red R32
08:45 Favorite Volkswagen Generations
10:51 Bold City’s Future Plans
14:07 Introducing TunerLog
17:36 TunerLog Features and Benefits
28:20 Transparency and Value in Car Sales
37:14 User-Based Point System and Badges
37:45 Track Insurance and Declared Value Policy
38:57 Tuner Log’s Data Privacy Commitment
40:00 Monetizing Without Sharing Data
42:37 Transfer of Ownership and Receipt Drop Integration
55:09 Data Security and Compliance
01:00:58 Motorsports Integration and Future Features
01:07:32 Final Thoughts and How to Get Involved

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the auto sphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrol heads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

What’s going on everybody tonight. It’s your host, Brad. And with me as always is Eric. Joining us tonight for an exclusive interview is Ed Sheets from Bold City Motorsports. Maybe you’ve been following them for years at Bold City Motorsports on the Instagram, or maybe this is the first time you’ve heard of this Jacksonville, Florida based German auto shop.

Either way, Ed’s going to share the Bold City origin, which happens to start in Maryland,

as well as clue us in on some exciting future projects they have in store. [00:01:00] Welcome to the show, Ed.

Ed Sheets: Thanks, guys. Appreciate that. Glad to be here.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, Ed, so let’s get into it. Tell us about your origin story there, being a Marylander.

Ed Sheets: Gosh, being a Ravens fan, you mean. Relocated, yeah. So, started in Maryland.

A lot of people would probably know my background through New German performance. And GP racing. So really started, uh, in the early nineties in Maryland, in Hartford County, let’s say Bel Air, you know, area met up with some VW guys started hanging out. We actually formed a little VW club, which was kind of fun.

That was in 1993, 94. We were having a lot of work done on our cars at a couple of the shops that were in the area that were just kind of pop it up. Dave Graff, my former partner and myself kind of got together and said, man, you know, the shops that are out there aren’t really doing such a great job for the enthusiasts.

If we put something together, got some good technicians, got, you know, a good foundation. Based in [00:02:00] the VW scene, really, you know, putting it out there in a genuine way. We could really make something of it. We’re both kind of coming from retail backgrounds. I was in the Marine industry. They’ve managed the audio connection, car stereo shop and performance center over in Towson.

We got together and the rest is history. So we had a really good run. I was part of NGP as Dave’s partner for 10 years, sold my half of the business in 2007. That’s when John Martin came in, another great guy, mutual friend of ours. So then I kind of stepped out of the scene for a few years, relocated for a corporate position, ended up here in Jacksonville.

But you know, when you’re in the car business, and when you are such a diehard enthusiast, you never get it out of your blood. Probably the best story for me as far as being an enthusiast is my honeymoon. My wife and I have been together since we were teenagers. We were high school sweethearts. So for our honeymoon, we went to, uh, Europe for two weeks, but we started off in Germany and actually spent the [00:03:00] first couple of days of our honeymoon in uh, Wolfsburg, you know, VW museum.

It was before the auto stop, unfortunately. But so yeah, you could say it’s, it runs, you know, pretty deep. We had a couple of kids, you know, my son was, became a teenager. He was almost ready to start driving. We decided to go out and pick up a VW and build it for him. And I started to reconnect with a few VW friends.

So I really wanted to come back in to the scene and start something that would be, I guess you could say like a 30, 000 foot view, right? So stepping back from the micro focus on VW and Audi kind of go all German cars, you really all, you know, car enthusiasts, something that would support the motorsport theme, getting people interested in motorsports, having a place for people to come hang out and car clubs to get together and put a car on a lift and do a lunch and learn or whatever.

The idea came about for Bold City Motorsport. Started Bold City, uh, I [00:04:00] guess going on about three years ago now. We basically build a lot of project cars. We try to support the local scene as much as we can. We organize get togethers and events and, you know, support. Local track days and just whatever we can do to really kind of pay it forward.

And now my son’s in his second year of college. Now he’s 19 years old. You know, it’s fun to see that next generation get involved and get interested in motor sports, interested in what I consider kind of doing things the right way. I won’t get into the semantics of the different types of car scenes and whatnot, but just genuinely appreciating the cars for what they are, the engineering aspect of it, the actual motorsport aspect of it.

And a lot of that starts with respecting. Cars respecting what they’re capable of and just the enjoyment of it as a whole. And again, if we do it right, the future is bright. We, we, it’s kind of up to us at this point to pay it [00:05:00] forward and present things the right way and really support it the best we can.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, it’s always sunny in Philadelphia, but I don’t know that that’s necessarily true. It’s always. It’s pretty much sunny in Jacksonville. So you’ve got the luxury of being close by to some, some very famous tracks, rubbling road, road Atlanta, Sebring, et cetera. They’re pretty much in your backyard and you’ve talked about, you know, the track scene and motor sports.

And if anybody’s followed you on Instagram, we’ve seen your blue nine 11. So what is your track car of choice? What is your track weapon?

Ed Sheets: Well believe it or not, the car we took to the track the most of the last couple of years was actually a Mark two eight valve GTI, former, uh, SCCA ITB car that came from Frederick, Maryland, just a couple of years ago, momentum car, just, you know, kind of fun to play around on, but it was perfect card to put my son on the track for the first time.

Great story with that is taking him to the track, putting him in the car. Of course, I went out and did a couple of stints and then, uh, he goes out and he stays out and he [00:06:00] stays out. Then it’s a matter of, you know, the timing and all of a sudden we’re keeping track of the time and, and, uh, sure enough. His first time on the track, he actually bested my time.

So, uh, that was at the firm. That’s a local track here. But so the 997 GT3 it’s a 997. 1 GT3 super in love with that car. Just was out in it literally 10 minutes ago, ripping around. I’m excited to get that car actually out on the track. We’re doing a few more small tweaks to it. We just got a couple months ago, but that will be the track car of choice moving forward, as well as the road trip car of choice.

It’s a really cool story. We’re going to feature it and kind of expose the car a little bit more on social media here real soon, but 105, 000 miles, excellent condition, one owner car, a lot of people, you know, kind of love, hate the Metzger engine and yeah, it runs great and it’s, it’s incredible. The design, but you know, it’s not good for longevity.

This car runs great. We pulled the engine, compression test, leaked [00:07:00] down, tidied up a couple small oil leaks, went over the whole thing. It is amazing. The car runs as good as new. That’s the track car of choice moving forward, I guess you could say.

Crew Chief Eric: So a lot of people may also know you for your infamous red R32.

I’ve seen pictures of your car all over, and I know that is recently departed from the shop. So is that a? Pain point for you? Do you miss it? I mean, let’s talk about that car a little bit. ’cause it is a big part of your backstory.

Ed Sheets: It is, yeah. So oddly enough, I just did a . I prepped for a throwback Thursday by posting some pictures of that car on social media last night.

So phenomenal car. Again, that was kind of a reentry point into opening the shop and having fun with cars again on a much higher scale. You know, level, but I found the car up in New Jersey. It had an HPA kit, single turbo kit car ran phenomenal. I mean, it was, I think four 60 at the wheels [00:08:00] on pump gas, 70, 000 original miles mint condition inside.

Now I truly have not personally seen a more mint condition car. And then with all the work that was done, we took it a little bit further. We did differentials front and rear. And a dual disc clutch and a couple of other things. Cause it was really kind of set up a little bit soft, but phenomenal car sold it to a collector in LA.

He added it to a, uh, quite an awesome collection of cars, including, uh, Mark 5 R32 turbo and some Porsches and some crazy built BMWs. And it’s living a good life.

Crew Chief Eric: Since you’re in the, in the VAG family, going back probably as far as my family has and a lot of other people that are listening to this.

Favorite generation of Volkswagen’s? If you had to pick one.

Ed Sheets: Oh gosh, well I think we already hit it. A lot of people are going to get mad at me about this. I want to say Mark II because of my affection for the Rally Golf. But to [00:09:00] be honest, I mean, And you’ve probably seen my son’s Mark four, you know, Jetta wagon.

I really love the Mark four. I it’s so easy to engine swap. Uh, I guess the only complaint would be, you know, that you’d have to go R32 or a major swap to get the, um, independent rear, but just such a cool car. They’re muscular. They they’re so easy to tune. They’re so easy to dial in. You don’t have to spend weeks and weeks on the track to dial in a Mark four.

Right. You guys know that as well as anyone. So yeah, they’re very predictable. It’s a good chassis. I mean, you know, again, we can talk about my rally golf. It’s pretty famous car on its own, but you know, every time I put that car in the lift, it opens a body seat. You know, it’s sad but true and that’s a rally golf.

So, you know, they’re soft cars So mark four they really started getting tight. They’re a fun platform I might take some heat for it, but it’s got to be the mark four

Crew Chief Eric: very cool So before we get into what’s hot and what’s new [00:10:00] I gotta ask this question sexiest car

Ed Sheets: Oh, gosh, sexiest car. I would almost say that the sexiest car I’ve ever contemplated would probably be a 48 Buick and that’s crazy.

That’s gone really in a different direction. But as far as body lines on a car that came from the factory. The 48 Buick, I think, is still my all time favorite.

Crew Chief Eric: It is amazing the things that we have heard, you know, E Type Jags, 365 Daytonas. I mean, people are all over the map, and so it’s always a very interesting, you know, kind of knee jerk.

What would you have? You know, what is that pinnacle car? Is there anything else you want to add to kind of the background, the background story of Bolt City or anything, any anecdotes, before we move on to really the meat of our conversation for tonight?

Ed Sheets: I would say in general, some of the reasons why we decided to make the investment to move forward with bold city, which is not [00:11:00] fully developed.

There’s a lot of things that we’re still working on. There’s a lot of things that we’re going to be doing with bold city that are very, very exciting, right? We just landed a container of parts from the UK on Friday of last week. So, you know, I’m still playing in some familiar turf with things that I used to do at NGP and, and with.

One of the branch off companies that I ran, which was ecode parts, you know, it’s good and it’s working and it’s supporting the positive aspects of the enthusiast base in the area. But, you know, I’m still a bit concerned. I still want to make sure that we’re doing the right thing for the younger crowd, people that are coming up.

I really liked the way, uh, our local track, the firm Keystone Heights, Florida. I love the way they push the like teenage defensive driving classes, things like that. Right. So I had personal friends of mine that were killed in car accidents. As a teenager, my kids now, my son’s 19, my daughter’s [00:12:00] 16, almost 17.

They have friends. That have died in car accidents. I, I really, maybe it’s the maturation process. Maybe it’s the, you know, it’s the age and the life experience, but I think I would like to do a little bit more with really bringing home, you know, there’s a place to drive in a certain way. It’s so rewarding.

It’s, it’s such a great thing to experience. I remember going, you know, summit point for the first time for a Friday at the track day and there’s nothing like it. I’m sorry, but there really isn’t. I mean, when you get out on the track and you’re doing it the right way you have a, you know, you have a fun ride.

It’s such a cool thing. I want people to experience that. I want them to enjoy it, but I don’t want them to do it on the street. I don’t want them to kill themselves or hurt other people. So again, Different stage of life, different mindset, maybe obviously than 20 years ago, you know, with NGP or whatever, I love what they’re still doing.

But I think the point is with bold city, we don’t have to worry about covering the rent [00:13:00] next month or, We have to sell, you know, 500 exhaust systems to, uh, to make payroll. We’re keeping it very, very efficient. We’re working very slim. We’re building project cars. We’re having fun. It’s a bit less of a commercialized endeavor, and it’s a bit more of a purpose driven, pay it forward endeavor.

So I would just leave it at saying, you know, we are selling Euro parts. We’re bringing stuff in. We’re building project cars. We’re finding cool cars and flipping them and turning them back out to the local market. Definitely, you know, follow along. Stay tuned. You know, as everyone says, stay tuned. We have some really cool stuff in the works, some really cool projects and some kind of high profile and influence or people that are going to start being involved with what we’re doing for your local shops.

I don’t want to step on anybody’s toes. We have a couple local shops that just opened in the last year here in Jacksonville. I consulted with both the guys that started the shops. I gave them a ton of advice, personal experience. I want them to succeed, support your local shops, have [00:14:00] fun with it, do things the right way, and, and we’ll be good.

We’ll be good for another 20 or 30 years.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s really get into it. Now, as we prepared for this episode, we talked ahead of time and what the listeners don’t know. Is that you’re taking a step into the world of IT. And what I mean by that is Ed is one of the principal founders of TunerLog. And you guys have heard this application teased for quite a while now, and Ed has kind of a big announcement that he wants to make, and we’re going to dig into the product and talk about it.

And this is an exclusive relationship here between Bold City and GTM to talk about TunerLog and bring this out into the wild. So Ed, why don’t you start us off and tell us. All about the premise of tuner log.

Ed Sheets: Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s a big deal. It’s, it’s actually exciting for me to hear you introduce it in that way.

And we have spoken about this isn’t exclusive. This is the first time it’s publicly being discussed after two years of development. Let’s talk about that red [00:15:00] R32 for a minute, actually, not unlike many cars that I’ve had, right? Really great car comes to me with a bunch of work done to it. I do a bunch more work to it.

I go to move the car forward after I’m done with the ownership experience, I start to market the car, put it up for sale. Every single person I talked to said, you know, it’s an amazing car and I would give you exactly what you’re asking. If you had the records, if you had all the documents, if you had the paperwork, I mean, the car has.

Well, the differentials I did, so that was fine. But, you know, it had cans, the turbo kit, it had, um, you know, the suspension, brakes, sway bars, everything. So, some parts we can see, some parts we can’t see, internal engine parts we can’t see, we don’t know. What pistons are in the car, what camshafts are in the car, you know, there’s a lot of things you say that the, you know, the intake manifold is match ported and it’s extrude homes.

Well, we can’t see inside the intake manifold. So a few triggers like that started to come [00:16:00] to me. And then of course, you know, there was a fateful trip with the family where we spent a couple of weeks in the car, driving through California. Reconnected with some awesome friends, you know, Brad Beardo, Matt Crook, um, the guys at 1552 people I had known from the very beginning and, uh, kind of got the, the thoughts flowing.

And at the time I had the R32, you know, marketed and I was taking a lot of feedback and interesting observations from that process. And I said, you know, I really would like to work on a legacy project and I really would like it to pertain to improving the experience of owning a vehicle. To everyone. Now, this is no longer VW Audi specific.

It’s not Porsche specific, which I love. It’s not German specific. You know, this is anyone who cares about their vehicle or even cares about the resale value of the vehicle. How can I? Give them something or provide them with some tool or [00:17:00] mechanism to actually increase the enjoyment of the ownership and increase the resale value and really the lineage of the vehicle, right?

That R32 is a phenomenal car. But if you don’t document and carry forward the lineage of what was done, when it was done, how it was done, who installed it, you know, things like that to say that it has camshafts is one thing. What camshafts are they? What brand are they? What grind are they? You know, what’s the lift?

What’s the duration? No one knows. And truthfully, I didn’t know. I was told they were a tectonics. Well, great. You know, they make two or three different sets of camshaft. So the idea started to come together to create something that was very easy to use, very smart, intuitive, sensible, but accessible to keep records, to record events in the, in the cars history, something That would transfer from owner to owner.

And really the idea of a [00:18:00] log book obviously came to mind, right? So I’ve had plenty of sanctions cars. I’ve had plenty of cars that have come with log books, whether it be NASA or SCCA or whatever. And again, I have a background in the maritime industry. There’s, you know, survey records and log books on engine maintenance and everything else.

I had actually started with the idea of building a better mousetrap through creating a better logbook system. But in my mind, I was thinking of actual logbooks, right? Actual printed books, even did some research on how to get books printed, where and everything. So my teenage son jumped in on that and brought that up to the 21st century for me real quick.

So, uh, we basically turned it into an app. I pulled a lot of experience from my previous corporate position with using Concur, which is an expense program, things like that, that were easy to use that you could take a picture of a receipt. You could upload it, categorize it, save it, [00:19:00] transfer it, email it.

And then there’s, of course, a lot of other programs that we’re all influenced by, right? Amazon, eBay, even Angie’s List, things like that. So the idea kind of grew and grew, got together about a year and a half ago with a couple local guys here in Jacksonville. They have a company called I Drive Fast. Their names are Thomas and Lucas, great guys.

They’re doing a lot of stuff. They’re on social media. If you go to iDriveFast on Instagram or Facebook. So they actually are a development team as well. So they build websites and they do, um, you know, do apps and things like that. So I contracted with them. We partnered up. There’s a lot of synergy there.

They did a great job lending that motorsport. Lifestyle kind of thought process having owned a brand new Camaro ZL1, 1LE, M4CS. I mean, these guys are true car guys, really good backgrounds. Also have that technical side that, you know, is necessary with putting this kind of stuff [00:20:00] together. So we worked together for about a year.

We, you know, the, the beta programs been up and running since January. We’re actually going out for public funding starting next week. So we’re hoping to have the company launched TunerLog by let’s say September, October, and then put the app out after a little bit more development and a few more pieces put together by the end of this year.

So what we have ended up with is basically what I would like to describe as a companion to owning a vehicle. Right. And this isn’t just a car. It’s not just an enthusiast car, but it’s a motorcycle, a car, a race car. It’s, it’s a boat, a jet ski, an RV. I’ve used it on my portable generator, my new flat screen TV, you know, so anything that you want to keep a unique serial number, you want to keep files, data, pictures of receipts, you [00:21:00] Those sorts of things where they can be easily referenced from your phone and app format can also be used from any platform.

So right out of the gate, it can be used on any web based platform. So your laptop, your ipad, your phone is already in the app store and beta format android. So it will be, uh, fantastically accessible. The whole point of this is there’s no charge for the basic program. Completely free. It’s global. It will be available to anyone that has the internet can use this sign up for free.

It’s going to take literally 10 seconds to sign up. You can add a receipt or a record in five seconds. I mean, it’s it’s so easy and simply functional that there should be no issues with the entry point. You know, signing up, using the product, sharing it, you know, really getting all the benefits, moving the cars forward or the vehicles forward, buying, selling those sorts of things.

So then of course there’s a [00:22:00] million layers under that, right? But that’s the overview of what we’ve created. So tuner log.

Crew Chief Eric: So now that you’re kind of. Telling the world that this is becoming more generally available and you’ve already said that it’s really designed for the masses and it’s got a really low entry point at free.

I would assume that there’s probably a tier to this with, you know, probably premium features. I don’t know if you want to outline those or anything like that, but what I’m more interested in digging into, and I’m sure our listeners are interested in, is Who will be integrating into this platform? Are there any early adopters?

Is there anybody on the back end of this thing that would make this process easier? Because it’s one thing to go to advanced auto and get a receipt and take a picture of it versus going to NGP and saying, Hey, download your ticket right into my tuner log.

Ed Sheets: There, obviously, there’s a lot of things we can’t talk about yet.

We actually have a fantastic intellectual property attorney that consults with us. So, I’ve gotten some good guidance on what we can and can’t say. But, I can give you some really good basic [00:23:00] foundation of what the program’s going to do. And it is phenomenal. It’s, we’re so excited. It’s an incredible program, the way it’s grown and developed.

To be completely transparent, there are logbook apps available. Right? I mean, you can go search in the app store today. There’s there’s apps that track mileage. There’s apps that track maintenance. There’s apps that, you know, track spending for tax purposes. So there are little bits and pieces of our concept kind of floating out there in space.

No one’s ever put the entire ownership experience into one program, right? That’s a big deal. But it would take it a step past that. The big difference with tuner log is integration. So you alluded to integrating with partners, very big partners, you know, big players, I should say, in the market with integrating processes such as receipt drop.

We want you to be able to go to some of the largest e commerce retailers in the country. We’re not going to name the names at the moment, but we want you [00:24:00] to be able to, um, to make a purchase. And just as your receipt would be emailed to your inbox, you know, after you complete the purchase, Your email can be dropped right into your cloud storage on your tuner log app, where you can simply go in and drag it into whatever column and categorize it as far as you know, whether it’s breaks, oil change, whatever it is.

So that’s really exciting. And there are some early adopters in line. And again, we can’t really put the names out there right now. There’s a lot of things still in discussion, but But I think we all know, you know, a lot of the main players in the industry, the people that are doing it right are the people that obviously we want to really launch with.

We want people who reflect the genuine motivation to improve the ownership experience. That’s what it’s all about. So what, what we say with TunerLog is that, you know, we, we want to. Increase the the enjoyment of the vehicle ownership experience as well as increasing the value [00:25:00] of the vehicle. So we can do this.

It’s a free program. The basic program is free for the expense of you taking 10 or 15 seconds to enter a receipt or enter a record every time there’s an event with your vehicle. Could literally mean thousands of dollars of additional resale value at the end. So it’s a value based program. There always will be value no matter what stage you use the program.

There will be a paid premium service. It will only be 5 a month. It’ll be launched, you know, sometime probably in the first six to 12 months. Of, uh, TunerLog going public. Paid premium version will have five, six, maybe even seven additional features. There will be, uh, additional, um, communication. There will be some other VIN data history reports that are discounted.

There will be some collaboration functions. There’s really [00:26:00] neat stuff. Again, you know, we, we have had an all star team from day one and a lot of what’s been developed and doesn’t exist anywhere. So it’s, it’s exciting. It’s, it’s going to be a lot of fun to see the reaction as people start to use it and really, really move it forward.

And I guess that’s one, one other thought that I would like to add just, you know, in general. Is that what we’re doing with tuner log is building something for the people that we are right? We’re enthusiasts So we’re going to start by catering to and delivering the product to the enthusiast market Which is one of the reasons why we’re announcing it here first with you guys, you know, it will grow and expand Obviously, it works for everything.

It’s it’s relevant to many different markets, different vehicles, different segments all over the globe. But the point is, we want to bring this forward in a very transparent way, and we want to be very honest about what the program is. And the program will get better [00:27:00] with feedback, and it will get better with people who genuinely appreciate what it provides, using it for free, and helping us build it into what ultimately will be, it’s already the only program of its kind, but will be the best possible version of this program type that it is.

So, so that’s one thing we want to make very clear from the beginning, we want people to use it, give us feedback. We will. Continue to work on and develop the program to be the best it can possibly be. And obviously we’ll be evolving forever. It will be years and years, but we are going to roll out the prelaunch beta version with some very specific partners, you know, and users that can give us good feedback.

And, and as we open it up, we’ll continue to ask for feedback. We want it to be something people can take ownership of, be a part of, you know, not many of us got to give input to, to Facebook, right? Or eBay or Amazon. This is something that could be [00:28:00] absolutely as big as any of those entities globally in the end.

And we want people to take ownership of it. We want them to help us to develop it to be the best it can be.

Crew Chief Eric: If you read between the lines, you shore up the age old discussion about a car is worth more in pieces than it is whole. And that’s exceptionally true when you talk about a race car. And so I wonder how tuner log is going to benefit the motor sports community.

Because now I have this Rosetta stone of information telling me all about the history of this car, much like the SCCA log books and everything you talked about. But now I start. putting two and two together, right? Well, this car has a hundred and fifty thousand track miles, which is like a million in dog years, and you got some Penske shocks on there, so that means that they’re blown out.

You can’t ask me for a top dollar for that type of thing, right? So I start making these mental correlations. So I get the benefit and I know [00:29:00] this is a little bit of objection handling, but I’m trying to think ahead of what maybe some of our listeners might be thinking as they’re hearing this. So how does one now have this conversation as a buyer or a seller when you’re armed with all this extra data?

Ed Sheets: That’s actually a great point, and maybe not the best view into human nature, you know, that you could take, because I’ll be honest with you, and your points are 100 percent valid, you know, we’ve gone out to some focus groups and gotten feedback, of course, you know, in all different stages of this, there have been questions like, okay, well, what if someone fakes the receipts?

Right. What if I tell you, you know, I have a Peliquin differential and I show you a receipt, but that receipts from my other car and it goes the same way with, uh, with track cars in general. Right. So the paid premium version will have the ability to upload video. Which the standard free version doesn’t, right?

Well, you know, what’s more fun [00:30:00] than uploading and sharing videos of your in car shots, you know, at the track? Well, maybe the buyer of your car doesn’t want to see you spinning off the track and, uh, ripping the bumper off, right? So, you know, you go to sell the car and you start deleting videos. Hey, that’s human nature.

I mean, there’s no way that the transparency in the program can be 100 percent verified or justified for that matter. So you always have to understand that you have to do your due diligence. You have to understand that maybe, like in the example you gave, Maybe showing a receipt that those Penske shocks were installed six years ago, you know, is not going to give you a lot of confidence that you should pay extra money for the Penske shocks, you know, because you’re looking at four or 500 each to rebuild them.

So let me put it this way. If I were to offer you my car and I were to put your email address in, which I could do today [00:31:00] for you and send you my entire logbook on one of my cars. How much extra benefit or confidence would you have in purchasing it? If I decided to be fully transparent with you, right? So we’re not creating.

The idea of being transparent or to be honest, we’re not creating the idea of keeping records on cars and sharing them with potential buyers. What we’re doing is we’re repackaging it into a 21st century platform that allows you to easily Keep the records, you know, secure the records for the future, transfer the records, and then add to the records and continue to build the lineage or the history of the car.

So we can’t fix human nature. All we can do is say that additional transparency will continue to separate. The good guys from the bad guys, so to speak, and we’re very positive on that. We think that that’s a very, very good thing. Do

Crew Chief Eric: you think it would [00:32:00] make sense then to aid the seller in adding a capability as maybe a value estimator?

Where it could factor in depreciation, maybe some other things to say, what is my car worth? Because I think a lot of people have a hard time coming up with a number, but there’s also a factor here to your point about the six year old Penske shock, or the Bilstein, or the Eibachs, or whatever you have laying around.

You know, when you bought those six years ago, They were 1100 bucks today. I can get it for 400 because somebody’s trying to clearance them out of their out of their shop brand new. So is there a mechanism or will be there a mechanism on the road map that would allow a seller to more accurately say, you know, this is what I’ve got and this is what it’s worth.

So they’re not Chopping off their nose despite their face, but everybody’s kind of getting a good deal at the end of the day.

Ed Sheets: Yeah, so you just hit on about four primary functions of tuner log all at one time, which is pretty impressive. So one of the things that Tuner log will [00:33:00] do in some ways is kind of reset some evaluation, right?

To say that your car has a certain suspension or a certain set of camshafts or a certain differential or whatever, you assume that adds value. If you don’t have the documentation, it adds absolutely nothing. The red R32, phenomenal car with all these aftermarket modifications, over 30, 000 in modifications done to that car.

Let’s say that I do give you a receipt that shows camshafts. There should be a shop that if I care to move forward with inspecting or confirming modifications that have been done to the car, we’ve already started to construct the foundation for what will be called a tuner log certified shop. So we will vet shops and not so different away as Angie’s list or even AAA on some level.

But we will have the ability to point you in a direction where you [00:34:00] can go to maybe spend a little bit of money to verify that the receipts are legitimate and that could potentially retain the value that you may or may not lose from how long they’ve been in there. Are they in there or not? You know, is it real?

Is it not? But then, on the other hand, There’s the aspect of, okay, well, maybe I’m going to buy this car and maybe the shocks are six years old. So I know that before I go out on the track, I really want to replace those. What do I do with it? So now we’ve kind of negotiated the price. The transparency has given me additional confidence.

I really liked the car. I’m going to go in and actually open my wishlist in my logbook. And I will be able to identify products that I may want to purchase for the car. And I’m curious about what they’ll cost, things like that. Part of the TunerLog backend will be the ability to connect with vendors who have products you’re interested in to [00:35:00] actually look for the best deals possible on the parts that you want to replace.

So we really have gone through from one end to the other of the experience, whether it comes to history or or, you know, purchasing or then purchasing and modifying. There are aspects built into the program from day one that accommodate that, I guess, just to just to flip back on the value, though, I’ll give you a little example of one of the things we’re working on behind the scenes.

So built into the program, even in the free version. is what we call a VIN ID. So we’re partnered with a company called VIN Audit. VIN Audit has the most accurate VIN data history in the USA and Canada based on government records and insurance records. But the one thing VIN data does not have is self reporting or service reporting, such as a CARFAX.

So Any of us who buy and sell a lot of cars know that the Carfax service [00:36:00] history is always spotty. You might see service here, service there, a six year gap of nothing, and then all of a sudden it went in for an oil change. It’s very difficult. Let’s go back to the idea of integration. Self reporting.

Using this program and filling out that data, Will actually supplement what’s lacking in a lot of the vehicle history reports today. So it’s a different world when it comes to evaluating vehicles, you know, yes. Maybe there’s more transparency. Yes. Maybe it, it plays into the value a little bit, either positive or negative, but the fact is we’re already working with the very.

Relevant, very well established partners to supplement what they have with what we have, and you’re going to be able to pull out vehicle history reports along with the tuner log log book, which will really help you make a very good decision on what you’re willing to pay for the car. Our assumption is that it’s going to [00:37:00] drastically improve the value for people who have the very desirable cars with very, very good records, and then it may pull some values down to people who are transparent about less than great, you know, service and support.

The bottom line is there’s a user based point system where you actually earn badges, which will get you discounts with key vendors for using the app. The more frequent that you use the app, the more records you upload to the app, you’ll earn more points and more, you know, favorable discounts and coupons for key vendors.

So we’re encouraging the use of the app, which is going to encourage the record keeping, which is going to actually kind of. Reset the ability to create that value properly.

Crew Chief Eric: What you’re saying is actually really good because I think in the motorsports community, one of the things that people often struggle with, and we talk about a lot on this show is the concept of track insurance and track insurance is becoming more and more prevalent at every event that goes by every [00:38:00] year since track insurance has become a thing.

Thanks to locked in and some of the other groups that are out there, I see the value in a tool like tuner log. When I set up my declared value policy. I can have proof to say, this is what my race car is worth. This is what my high performance street car, my track car, my track rat is worth in parts in totality.

And when you take that to somebody like locked in and say, I need to declare value policy for 50 grand for a mark one rabbit, and they look at you sideways, you have the. Papers in hand to say, yes, it’s worth 50 grand. That’s how much I have sunk into it. So something to consider their listeners as, as we’re talking more about this, but I want to kind of get into a little bit more tougher conversation on behalf of a lot of our listeners that are probably thinking this now, you know, how does something like tuner log.

affect a newer vehicle? We’re talking about warranties and dealing with OEs and even the insurance companies. It’s a very highly sensitive and very touchy topic. So let’s start off with that. How does tuner log play into that whole [00:39:00] equation in terms of accessibility of the data? You know, when I need to go in for service or do a recall or something like that.

Ed Sheets: Great point. Again, I’m going to kind of reference the human nature thing, right? So we’re going to control what we can control. And one of the things we’re going to have to ask for up front is trust. This mechanism that collects and stores data obviously would be very attractive to insurance companies, to OEMs that want to monitor warranties, modifications.

We have to protect that. And that’s a commitment that we’re making very, very boldly from the beginning. So we’ve actually had quite a few conversations about this in the development stage. So we will not sell information or share information externally to anyone. Obviously, there’s a large investment made to create this program.

We’re going out on the street next week for our first round of funding. There’s going to be a lot of money spent to launch the company, to grow the program, to [00:40:00] develop it. There has to be a monetizing function. So, the monetizing function that we focused on is to work, again, to reflect that enthusiast, grassroots based desire to make this valuable.

So, we can use the data that’s inside of the application to benefit the user and related vendors or relevant vendors to that user without actually sharing the data. We don’t have to share your personal contact information. We don’t have to share any information about your vehicle. So let’s say you buy a new C8 Corvette.

So if Borla, I’m sure they do already, has a, you know, a new exhaust system for a C8 Corvette, we can actually partner with Borla, which I’m sure we will at some point here soon, to be an integrated vendor partner. So we can actually push Borla’s announcement or [00:41:00] special tuner log program purchase offer for C8 Corvette exhaust systems to C8 Corvette owners.

Because we have the ability to pull up the contact information and push a notification to the app based on the VIN number that tells us you own a C8 Corvette. But guess what? If you don’t own a C8 Corvette, you’re not going to get any junk mail or spam about exhaust systems from Borla for C8 Corvettes.

We also, in that way, can basically use the data that’s in the program in a positive way. There’s no downside to that. If you own a C8 Corvette, you probably do want to know what’s available for the C8 Corvette, right? That’s very important to us that none of our plan or strategy for monetizing this program has anything to do with externally sharing, selling, or divulging anyone’s information, either personally or on their vehicle.

We just don’t have to do it. We’ve looked at the financial models. We’ve looked at the growth and scale models. We’ve [00:42:00] gone all the way out to five years plus. There is absolutely no need for us to share any data externally so we can control it. We can keep it internal. No offense to Hagerty and all the other people that were already working with.

But we’ve You know, we don’t have to give any of the data on modifications or any, any, you know, personal information on the ownership experience to those companies. Yes, we will work with insurance companies. We’ll work with auction companies, but it’s, it’s going to be in more of a generalized marketing way.

It’s not going to be related to divulging any information on the ownership experience of the vehicle. And that’s very important to us.

Crew Chief Eric: So that leads into, I guess, a transfer of ownership questions. So I sell a car to you and now I transfer my tuner log to Ed. Ed’s got my info, right? So you go, Hey, why did you install this cam?

I’m getting calls in the middle of the night. Car runs like crap. You know, it’s always been the five minute, five mile warranty with any used car. So [00:43:00] how does this play into that whole equation?

Ed Sheets: There’s a couple of things. One is that the receipt drop integration will not include personal data. It won’t include the last four digits of your credit card or any of those things developing the receipt drop integration, which will actually be in a later release.

It’s not going to be in the first release of the program. It’s going to be very simple. And again, we want. People to take ownership. We want the enthusiast market to actually help us, you know, kind of fine tune this program. So a few things will, will come a little bit later, but, you know, receipt drop integration is going to be formatted purposely to protect personal information.

There’s not going to be addresses or phone numbers or anything. And what we will tell people in our tutorial, when you sign up for the program is that, you know, if you’re taking a picture or screenshotting, You know, which is what I do with my log books. I’ll take a screenshot of the receipt. I simply crop it, you know, any of the phones, whether it be iOS or [00:44:00] Android will allow you to screenshot and then immediately go to edit.

You just take down the whole top section. All your personal information is gone at that point. So now let’s, let’s answer your question directly. Okay. So, so I sell you my car or vice versa. What I do is I actually share it based on your email. Your email is actually your login for tuner log anyway. Yeah. I hate to go down this path, but if someone was really bugging you about something, you could always block their email.

I mean, you know, it’s not that hard to do in today’s world with the basic email providers that we all use. But the thing is, there’s not a, an exchange of phone numbers, addresses. You can still keep it very clean. Good. Now to go a step further, we are already working on a program for a marketplace for exchanging vehicle ownership.

In other words, selling vehicles that does have some very progressive, very cool features, such as something that we see in the marine industry, which is like a broker purchase kind of [00:45:00] thing. You know, we already do that. And I bought my 997 GT3 through a Florida performance cars. Jeff down there is phenomenal guy.

I also bought our, our red. 900 horsepower 996 twin turbo from them. The 997 GT3 came from the original owner and it wasn’t even really a consignment type thing. It was a brokered type deal. So I’ve had no contact with the original owner, but I’ve received all of the receipts and all the documentation, the original window sticker, the manuals, everything.

So we can create a situation where people can have that anonymity, but let’s also look at how transactions are made these days anyway, which is completely hands off. We’re dealing with a global pandemic right now. TunerLog actually, by its nature and by bringing the experience of owning, recording and transferring a vehicle to the 21st century actually addresses some of the problems we’re dealing with right now.

We don’t want to have a lot of personal contacts, you know, you know, a lot of dealers now, all dealers probably at this point. [00:46:00] Are doing what they call sight unseen and appraisals. So they’ll appraise your car based on the car facts report and a couple pictures and things like that But the bottom line is we take, you know sight unseen appraisals to a whole new level and i’ve talked to some very good friends of mine who run dealerships, uh, vw and volvo and You know, they’ve said that what this will provide to us is the ability to truly do a sight unseen appraisal Which has not really existed to this point We can look at our All the records, you know, even, uh, let’s say VW, for instance, what they told me is even the VW dealers, you know, don’t all have the same service records only if it’s warranty.

So if it’s basic service and you have all your oil changes done at one dealer and you go to another dealer, they can’t necessarily pull up all of your records. So this platform actually allows you to truly provide a full set of records on the vehicle that allows you to do very intelligent transactions without actually having to be there [00:47:00] in person and handle the car or the paperwork, you know, firsthand.

Crew Chief Eric: Two use cases here. The first one being what if This is my new DRM, my digital records management system of choice. And I am not too keen on paper anymore. So what you told me in this description is I can take a picture of that receipt, crop it, you know, put it in there, et cetera. However, I can’t take a cropped receipt.

back to the store and say, Hey, I bought this and it’s busted and I need it to be replaced without all the corresponding information that goes along with that. So how does that work?

Ed Sheets: Right. So now we’re back to the beauty of the receipt drop integration. If you notice anywhere you go now, e commerce is a little bit different, but anywhere you go retail, let’s say you’re going into Napa, O’Reilly’s, AutoZone, Advanced Auto Parts, they basically take your phone number and your email address and you’ve got a loyalty program.

You’re always signed up for a loyalty program. Doesn’t matter if you go to the grocery store, the auto parts [00:48:00] store, whatever. So receipt drop integration will also be tied in with your loyalty program. So just having the record to reference the product, the purchase date, things like that, will allow them to then turn over to the loyalty program to actually pull up the detailed backend of the receipt.

So if you think of it that way, we’re actually not even going as deep as the loyalty program where you bought the, you know, you buy your wiper blades. They know more about you and they’re actually holding more information on you than we are because we’re not holding your credit card number. So I returned some bulbs for our caddy project.

It’s our little rabbit truck that we’re building. I did some aftermarket taillight and had to, as usual, search out the bulbs and they’re never what they should be. So I took the bulbs back to return them to Advanced Auto Parts yesterday and they didn’t need anything. They punched in my phone number.

They had the credit card that I used. They put it right back on the [00:49:00] card. I didn’t have to even pull my wallet out. That’s way scarier than tuner log, you know? So, so we’re going to leave those people alone with that information. What we’re going to do is be able to extract and trigger enough of the information to keep the record and transfer the record.

Let’s face it. You know, if I buy a car from you and there’s something as a three year warranty and you give me the receipt, first of all. You’re probably not going to give me your receipt with your, uh, you know, last four, your sound decks and your phone number and your email and your home address and all that stuff anyway.

But most purchases are only guaranteed to the original buyer anyway. So, you know, the, the, the relevance of what’s on the receipt, the record of the product that was purchased for. The next owner’s information is actually way more watered down than it would be if we actually needed to go back and get warranty or something like that.

We’re again, we’re not replacing everything that you normally [00:50:00] experience. We’re really just repackaging it. So we’re still not going to replace the data systems that retailers already use.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And what you describe is often the case. If you’ve ever bought a Kony or Bilstein shock, you must be the original owner with original receipt to get anything done.

If I transferred it to, you know, to you, then your SOL, you got to buy new parts. So, you know, I would like to see some of that change in the future, but that’s not the point of this conversation. But my second use case though, still with my, you know, devilish cyber hat on here is what if I’m sitting around going, remember that car I sold to Ed.

I still got the VIN number laying around here. Can I go into tuner log and go look that up and figure out where the car is gone or where it’s ended up now, or maybe it’s, you know, in California all of a sudden, or it ended up in Manitoba. I don’t know. Is there a way for me to figure that out?

Ed Sheets: Yeah. So what’s interesting is the short answer is no, because we’re very, very keen again, you know, being.

User based and building this program [00:51:00] based on what we want as enthusiasts and as hardcore vehicle owners and enjoyers of these cars. We don’t want that. I mean, I, you know, a great story, our rally golf, you know, the rally golf I built when I was still part owner of NGP that we built it with VW Vortex. It was everywhere.

I lost track of that car for 13 years. I just found it with some help of a friend, you know, Nate Brown. A lot of people know, you know, is, uh, at NGP Quite a while. He’s now working for the FCP or a race team. Yeah, he actually helped me find the car, figured out who had it and got me connected to buy the car, right?

What we envision is much like Zillow or almost a combination of Zillow and LinkedIn, the ability to. Let the owner choose whether he wants the car to be found or whether he wants the car to be bought. So you could have the ability and some later versions may actually be a little bit more towards the premium offering [00:52:00] where you can actually turn the car on so that people can search it by VIN number, and there’s a couple reasons for that that may be beneficial.

One is that, you know, let’s say I have the rally golf or I have, you know, some, some rare car mark four R 32, you know, for instance, but which I may or may not be in the market for again. So if I want to know if there’s any mark four R 30 twos within 250 miles of me that may be for sale, it would be nice to have the ability for an owner of that car to be able to, to just click a box.

That says, you know, make me sell is the Zillow term. Obviously we’re not going to steal that from them, but you know, make me an offer or whatever it is. And I would be able as a, let’s say maybe a premium user to go out and search for specific cars, which are going to be referenced by VIN number that identifies the car.

But it’s always going to be with the owner’s approval. They’re going to have to be able to turn that on before they can be seen or found. And then it will have to be for specific [00:53:00] reasons, right? Because they may want to sell it. Let’s say it’s a rare car, and they want to find other owners of similar rare cars, you know, like 997 GT3, you know, there’s not many of those cars around, 997.

1 specifically, so if, uh, if I want to know if anyone else in Jacksonville has that car, it would be kind of cool to be able to click that off, but then again, We’re also going to have integrated groups, like say, uh, you know, PCA. So if I’m a Porsche club member, you know, we could all always have a separate section where you could communicate with other club members of major, you know, significant OEM level type clubs, which would be fantastic.

So, uh, there’s quite a few things we’re working on. Like I said, there’s a lot of things in the works for some future features that will be rolled out. But the important thing is we’re not exposing anyone. We’re not selling or sharing anyone’s data externally. We want this to be a safe, secure place where you can come, [00:54:00] enjoy the benefits of it.

The value is always going to be tremendous for the input. Obviously, entry point at free is, is hard to beat. Spend a few minutes every week or two with it, or whenever you have any kind of event with your vehicle, and you’re going to see the benefits. But on the other hand, you’re not going to be exposed to anything you’re not interested in.

Crew Chief Eric: And, and what you just highlighted there is. kind of a legacy concept being reborn, which is the idea of a registry, right? And so I happen to be part of the 914 registry as a 914 owner. And there are sites out there that probably a lot of newer motor sports enthusiasts don’t know that they exist. You know, there’s a Shelby Cobra registry and there’s a, you know, Sunbeam Tiger registry.

I mean, all, a lot of those old vintage cars, there’s a lot of that out there. And we, you know, we’re friends with the folks In the classic car club of America and the Packard club and stuff like that. And they have those types of lists where they’re trying to keep track of famous cars. Like, Oh, that was the Packard that Clark Gable owned.

Right. And so they have a whole history on that kind of thing. It’s a different sort of record keeping that we’re talking [00:55:00] about here, but I could see that appeal in a more modern way with what you described. Now, I want to close out the cyber discussion here, and I know we didn’t go too deep. But there is one thing that, you know, the Uber nerds are probably thinking about, and I’m going to throw out some acronyms here that people may or may not be familiar with, but it really gets down to the base concept of storage concerns, data at rest, things like that.

Just. Touch briefly on tuner logs, compliance with regulatory compliances, like GDPR, the global data protection regulation, PII storage. You know, this is an ERM or DRM electronic records management or digital records management platform as, as we’ve discussed. So there’s a lot of other things that you guys had to take into account from an it perspective.

So just to put some of our listeners at ease, let’s elaborate on that just a little bit so that they understand that, you know, this is, It’s truly legit and all the painstaking process that you’ve had to go through.

Ed Sheets: Yeah. So a couple of things on that topic. I mean, right now we have a, [00:56:00] our basic security level is the same as using a mobile banking app, right?

I mean, we literally have the same amount of security on transfer security on storage. We take very seriously. We’re actually working on a data security mission statement, kind of an operating outline that we will share publicly that will actually describe how we’re going to hold data. You know where it’s placed.

There is a cloud storage built into the app again in the basic free version that you actually hold. All of your records. And even after you transfer a logbook, you can still hold all the previous records in your cloud in case you buy that same car again. And you want to reference something. It’s fantastic the way it was built out again.

You know, there’ll be a lot more details posted up and actually explained a little bit. We’ve looked at blockchain integration for security. There’s some things that some of the larger [00:57:00] investors actually are keyed in on and focused on when it comes to this type of program and data storage. We’re looking at obviously, uh, as it scales and grows, moving into like an AWS platform, you know, for moving the data around and hosting the program.

So, you know, there’s lots of things to be decided before the program goes live, but most of the architecture. Is built. It’s very secure again from day one. The free service. If you use a mobile banking app on your phone, you’ve got the same level of security for transferring your data as that. So that should give some people some peace of mind.

But we take it very seriously, and it is something that we will continue to make a big investment on.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. And the biggest thing about GDPR, there’s really two pieces. One is not as important, but it pertains to this conversation, which is the ability to opt out of something, right? And that’s been widely known in a lot of things.

You need to be able to unsubscribe from emails and [00:58:00] spam, all that kind of stuff. But the bigger part of GDPR is when I say, as the consumer, the customer, I want out. And I want my records and I need them expunged from the system. Part of that regulatory compliance is that it providers and service providers, application providers must comply to that.

So I just want to make sure that, you know, if I decide tomorrow, Hey, we’re all LGTM signing up for tuner log. And people want to pull out and, you know, they’ve uploaded, you know, what they identify as PII that they know for a fact that when they hit that delete button or I want out that it’s, it’s going to be completely expunged.

So,

Ed Sheets: yeah, so, so that will be part of the security, uh, commitment and agreement. It’s important that people understand the anonymity factor to the receipts, right? So the thing is, when you’re. Exchanging information, trading receipts. If I buy your car and you share with me your log book, [00:59:00] which has copies of your, you know, like, let’s say, you know, watered down copies of the receipts that just references the parts, maybe when they were purchased or they were purchased from, which is really all I have the business knowing.

You are still retaining those copies, so I have to be okay with the fact that you still also have copies, right? So we have to I guess this is really kind of a I’m moving to a generalized type of statement, but we have to be conscious of the Movement of that information. If you say you want that information to be off of tuner log, that’s fine.

And you own that information, but you may be referencing information that two other people already own because they’ve already owned it and transferred it, right? So who actually owns those receipts that you’ve been given during the transfer of the vehicle two or three times or 10 times? You know, I’m not going to lie.

We’re working with some interesting dynamics when it comes to transferring data that really doesn’t exist. But the thing is, you have to be confident that when you do something that’s never been [01:00:00] done before, that you’ll make the right decisions for everyone that’s involved long term. And that’s actually something we embrace.

We’re very excited to almost recreate or reaffirm the confidence people can have in using modern platforms where, you know, you’re uploading data. And it’s up there and, you know, it’s still your data, but it’s, it’s somewhere else and someone’s keeping it and someone else is transferring it or holding it on your behalf.

We take that very seriously and some of that will be further developed as we also reach out to the global market. Because there are some considerations to be made when it comes to data holding and transfer as it pertains to other countries and other regions in the world. So we will have one complete department inside of TunerLog that’s just going to be data compliance and security.

It’s actually going to be a very important function. So

Crew Chief Eric: let’s, let’s [01:01:00] take it to a little lighter conversation, you know, our favorite conversation, which is motorsports. I want to take it back a minute. And. I don’t want to divulge any secrets. So I’m going to play King for a day. So since you talked about making this, you know, amenable to the, to the motorsport community, some of the things I’d like to see in tuner log, I’m going to put it that way.

It’d be really cool. If, as I have my race car in tuner log that I could keep a log of tire pressures and set up and certain tracks and things like that, I think I’d want to take that a step further. Because a lot of times you tell people, you know, I turned to 135 at Rowan Atlanta and they go, yeah, you’re full of it.

Well, you know what if I could upload my aim data and prove it and say here it is Here’s the lap data from that car from the telemetry with this particular setup There’s no doubt just like those receipts that those parts and that setup works in addition to that. I think the transfer Of a race car from one person to another.

Oftentimes there’s some [01:02:00] tribal knowledge that is lost, right? That it’s, it’s just lost from one owner to the other. And you scratch your head and you look at it and go, why the heck did this guy set this car up this way? I just don’t understand. So if there was more in depth logging than just, Oh, well, it’s got a strip cam in it, and it’s got, you know, iBox and, and, and ground controls, it answers the question, why?

Then that means something much more to the motorsport community, uh, in the long run.

Ed Sheets: Yeah, the, the, the motorsport segment is, is just phenomenally exciting. We actually had a, uh, a bit of a consultation type development meeting last week with our good friend, Nate Brown works with FCPR now on the race team.

And, and he gave us some great input last week, you know, just in general of some of his observations and his experiences, but yeah. That’s one of the things that we discussed in that meeting was sanctioned racing, you know, let’s say club racing, amateur racing, you know, specifically, we don’t just want to which we do already have in the basic [01:03:00] format.

We have a track log. One of the logbook segments inside of the logbook you create for your unique vehicle is a track log. Where you can keep tire pressures and you can keep, you know, break pads and you can make comments on how the pads worked or what you liked or didn’t liked about these tires and what size you use, what wheel you used, what offset.

That’s the whole point of the program, right? It would be one thing to just say, okay, we created a structure, a platform that you can keep this information and it’s and it’s easily accessible. You can grab your phone and you can Hit one button and pull up the app and oh, that’s the tire pressure I use. So that’s one thing, and that’s really beneficial, but that’s not us.

You know, we’re overachievers here. So what TunerLog is looking to do is actually integrate with sanctions. Let’s say amateur club racing type level organizations. To where we can actually have your sanctioned logbook for your vehicle in the app. We can have documentation in the app. You can [01:04:00] actually transfer and upload information.

And I tell you, this is something you touched on a second ago that’s really interesting. There are a lot of people now, of course, in the modern world that we live in, who actually are paid to dino tune cars from 2000 miles away, right? You take your car, you put it on a dino and they log in through the internet and hook in your ECU and you’re, you’re running the car or the dino operators running the car and they’re tweaking the map.

You could actually get to the point with this ability to transfer data where you could actually transfer, you know, setups. You could transfer a complete setup on a specific car to someone, you know, whether it be in a business format where you actually sell the setup, or you’re just trying to hook up a friend who’s on the West Coast.

He’s run the same car as you. We do want to work with the tracks. Again, we don’t want to claim that we’re reinventing the wheel. We’re not. There are apps that give you track maps and they give you the ability to log certain functions or keep [01:05:00] records. What we’re saying is, do you want five apps on your phone related to the use of your car or do you want one?

Right. That’s the point. We want to achieve the integration. We will achieve the integration to where this works on your VW Atlas, you know, grocery getter that takes the kids to school and takes you on family vacation to keep records of maintenance and and the ownership experience on that. And you just Scroll left one one spot and you’ve got your mark for, you know, race car with all your detailed information and you’ve got, you know, track maps and you’ve got video uploads on the premium version that you could transfer shared social media.

The whole point is integration and the ability to have it convenient. That’s the whole thing. Convenient to use and convenient to access. So with those driving forces, which come from the grassroots, you know, need to have something that’s useful but easy to [01:06:00] use in a low entry point as far as cost and complexity, that’s that’s what we’re aiming for.

And that’s what the bottom line will be. So a lot of the things you’re you’re hinting towards have already been considered. The development process obviously takes some time, but we do look at it. The enthusiast market to begin with, because we know this is beneficial to anyone who is an automotive or, or enthusiast of any type, whether it be motorcycle, you know, boat car, and then there’s the ultra enthusiasts, let’s say the motor sports fans and people actually use the car for what it was built for or designed for.

So we want to, we want to focus down on that, but we also at the same time, we’re going to be focusing out on more of a, an overall integration, but the compliment each other. They really do. And ultimately what you’ll have is, is something that does everything that you need it to do with one click.

Crew Chief Eric: Very cool.

And you, you conjured up an old memory for me because I worked at electric motor for a [01:07:00] while. And you know, one of the biggest things there was don’t forget to send them a bin file. You have to have that backup file for the ECU all the time. And so I sold one car that had an electromotive on it. And it was like, I gave the guy a laptop and like all this stuff.

So it’s like, if you lose this, it’s on you, man. But having a backup copy somewhere, you know, even if it was in the cloud, it’d be kind of cool to say, I still got that tune laying around if you need it. Or, you know, transfer it to somebody that maybe has a similar build and say, Hey, here’s my tune. Almost feels like Forza in a way.

Hey, let me send you my tune real quick. And you get your car set up real quick. You know, so that’s kind of cool. I like that idea. So, Ed. As we wrap things up here, is there anything else you want to talk about with respect to TunerLog, uh, you know, anything we didn’t mention or didn’t, or you wanted to cover or tell the world about before we decide to sign off here?

Ed Sheets: Well, I would say this, it’s an exciting platform. It’s, it’s almost a little daunting. It’s grown to be such a massive scope and scale over the past couple of years as we’ve been putting it together. No matter how big it is, or no matter how [01:08:00] widespread it becomes, you know, as it’s becomes a global. Entity and all the things that we have planned, we are going to work very hard to make sure people understand the purpose, the intent of what it was built for every aspect of what it does and how it’s used as you go through using the program.

It’s going to reflect our intentions and our goals. So again, you know, we’re, we’re not going to hide from anything where, you know, there’s no smoke and mirrors. It is what it is. We’re being very transparent. But I think the exciting thing is, you know, take ownership of it. You know, we’re, we’re going to listen.

We’re going to have avenues for people to give feedback. We’re going to really, Work hard at making it a program for the people by the people. We’re giving it a great head start. We’ve gotten some phenomenal feedback. We’ve gone in and made some major tweaks in the last six months, just based on, you know, some really good feedback that we’ve received and some internal.

Testing we’ve done, it’s going to be a great [01:09:00] program. We do have a couple extra things like the collaboration function. That’s going to be exciting where if you’re a shop, I can drop my car off to you and click one button in the logbook and it will share the entire logbook with you. Whether you’re an independent person or you’re on a shop account or whatever.

So when you’re working on the car, you can take pictures of the install of the parts. You can take pictures of the install guide, the receipts, upload those so that I can actually go into my log book and watch you work on my car, which is really exciting. When I go to pick up the car, I’m standing there, you know, paying my bill and get my receipt and I can turn it off.

You no longer have access to it. So there’s some really, really smart features that are going to be in the very first version that are rolling out that I think when people start to use them and understand them, they’ll, they’ll see what our intentions are, you know, what we’re really trying to create and, uh, We’re going to have [01:10:00] influencers building crazy project cars that will be shared through tuner log, where you’ll be able to, you know, I mean, how many times have you seen something like a Ken Block, for instance, you know, builds a crazy car.

And, uh, I know at least for me, you know, being a technical minded guy, I’m like, gosh, you know, what rear end is he using? That’s crazy. What transmission? Yeah, I’ve seen flipping through the gears. Okay. So, so I’ve got a Raptor. With a, with a three, five twin turbo V six, what transmission is behind that three, five V six.

I’d love to know what he’s running, you know, pushing a thousand horsepower through that truck for people who are building those big projects and influencers that are putting out the crazy stuff. We all love to watch. How great would it be to go in and go to a public section of tuner log and actually.

pull down the parts list and see what they used. What spring rates are they using? You know, what compound tires are they using? What offset wheels do they have on that, that STI or, or, you know, Evo or whatever it is. So it’s going to be fun. It’s going to be a lot of fun. It’s going to be [01:11:00] really exciting.

And I think some of the people we have involved with TunerLog as well going to be familiar to some people. It’s, it’s going to be fun to see the reaction.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, like I said, I’ve been, I’ve been keeping tabs on to the log for a while because it was, it was snuck out there into the wild a while ago. So it’s been good to see its progression.

It’s good to see that you guys are finally coming out into the light and, you know, big smiling faces saying, Hey, we’re here. We’re happy. Let’s get this going. So why don’t you tell us a little bit as we close here on how folks like. Folks here at GTM can get a hold of TunerLog or the folks that are out there listening out on the big wide internet.

How do they get dialed into TunerLog and especially how do they get dialed into Bolt City?

Ed Sheets: Right. So social media is always the best to be honest with you. We use Instagram more than anything else. So it’s just Motorsport. You can find us on Instagram. You can see kind of a daily peek into our life. You know, the, and my entire family at the [01:12:00] shop Friday and loading a container, you know, out ripping around the GT three with some in car video or at the track with, you know, the Mark two, just, that’s a great way to just kind of see what we do.

We’re again, we’re very transparent. There’s nothing to hide. We’re just, you know, we’re just having fun. So tuner log, we’ve, For a lot of reasons, kind of been, you know, a little protective of some of the details. You guys are getting the exclusive, which is phenomenal. Very proud, you know, to work with you guys on, on pushing this out.

We do have a, a tuner log on Instagram. That would be a good place to keep an eye out. As you said, I’ve dropped a couple of teasers here and there, even some screenshots of the app. Maybe we’ll load a couple videos, you know, of some of the app walkthrough here shortly. So, uh, keep an eye out on that. We’re going to start getting a little bit more active as things get close.

We are out looking for, you know, uh, a short round of funding before the launch, just to make sure that we have what we [01:13:00] need to go out to market. So we’re going to be out on the street with that starting next week. It’s, it’s happening quick. It’s all coming together very quickly. Just keep an eye out on social media.

You can always message us through social media if you’re interested as a, as an investor, as a vendor partner, as, uh, someone who’s interested as, as, uh, you guys are in doing some beta testing maybe before the final launch, which is really exciting. We’ve talked about that off air a little bit, but, so yeah, just stay in touch through social media.

You can always hit us at, you know, you can hit me at at@boldcitymotorsport.com at any time. Contact information is in all the social media platforms. So yeah, it’s exciting. We’re getting real close

Crew Chief Eric: So ed, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. This is really cool to get this exclusive again This is exciting times, especially in the automotive world to have something so different So new really bringing together a lot of things that we’re doing manually And at the end of the day just making our lives easier.

So We wish [01:14:00] you the best of luck with tuner log and all the successes you’ve had up until this point. I mean, it’s a really cool backstory for the listeners out there, you know, dig more into bold city, dig more in to tuner log, you know, get excited about this. This is the up and coming latest, greatest thing in the automotive.

And let’s just say it in the motorsport world as well. So we’re really looking forward to see where this is going and we can’t thank you enough again for coming on the show.

Ed Sheets: Yeah. Thank you very much for having me. It was great. Appreciate it very much.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, listeners, did you enjoy this particular episode? Did you know you can learn more about what we just talked about by visiting the GTM website? If you want to learn more or just review the materials from this episode, be sure to log on to www.gt motorsports.org today and search for this particular episode.

From all of us at GTM, never stop learning.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on [01:15:00] www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read? Great! So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it. But please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization. But we still need help to keep the momentum going, so that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content.

So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can [01:16:00] help.

Introducing… TunerLog!

The heart of the episode is Ed’s announcement of TunerLog, a new app designed to revolutionize vehicle ownership. Born from the frustration of selling modified cars without proper documentation, TunerLog offers a digital logbook for enthusiasts to record upgrades, maintenance, receipts, and more.

“It’s a companion to owning a vehicle,” Ed explains. Whether it’s a race car, motorcycle, boat, or even a generator, TunerLog helps preserve the lineage and value of any machine. The app is free to use, globally accessible, and designed to be intuitive and fast – adding a record takes seconds.

What does TunerLog do?

TunerLog can be used to record, organize and store receipts, photos and file attachments inside of uniquely identifiable logbooks for individual vehicles
TunerLog securely holds a copy of all of your uploaded files from your logbooks in inside of a cloud within the program
TunerLog can be used on any vehicle, of any type (car, plane, boat, lawn equipment, etc.)
TunerLog can be used anywhere in the world with basic internet access
TunerLog allows an owner to share a copy of their complete virtual log book with anyone, anywhere in the world via email
TunerLog offers value added benefits for service providers such as repair and restoration shops whom can “collaborate” on a vehicle logbook by adding documentation to the owners logbook through a simple sharing process the owner authorizes through the app
TunerLog standard version is a free program that offers real benefit to the user through increasing resale value as well as the quality of the maintenance and modification process experience
TunerLog is web based and able to be used on any standard electronic device- pc, laptop, tablet or cell phone in mobile web or app mode.
Learn more about TunerLog.

TunerLog: Integration and the Road Ahead

While Ed can’t yet name names, he hints at major industry partnerships that will allow receipts and service records to be automatically integrated into TunerLog. A premium version is also in the works, offering advanced features like video uploads, VIN history reports, and collaborative tools—all for just $5/month.

TunerLog isn’t just a product – it’s something every enthusiast needs. Ed and his team want users to take ownership, provide feedback, and help shape the future of the platform. “We’re building something for the people that we are,” he says. “It’s about increasing the enjoyment and value of vehicle ownership.”Stay tuned for more updates from Bold City Motorsports and the official launch of TunerLog. Whether you’re a seasoned racer or a weekend tinkerer, Ed’s story is a reminder that passion, purpose, and community can drive innovation in the most unexpected ways.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Touring Through Time: Classic Cars, Road Rallies, and the Spirit of Packard

Gran T

September 8, 2020

Touring Through Time: Classic Cars, Road Rallies, and the Spirit of Packard

Motorsports isn’t just about speed – it’s about stories. And in this episode of Break/Fix, we dive into a discipline that’s often overlooked: the Road Rally. Not the stopwatch-driven kind, but the scenic, soul-stirring tours that blend history, camaraderie, and the unmistakable charm of classic cars.

Joining us is Gunther Hoyt, director of the Colonial Community Classic Car Club and a prominent member of the Old Dominion Region of the Packard Club. Gunther’s passion for Packards and road rallies is infectious, and his insights offer a window into a world where elegance meets adventure.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Unlike autocross or circuit racing, road rallies in the classic car world are more about exploration than competition. These events typically center around a historic hotel, chosen for its charm and proximity to quiet, scenic roads. From this base, participants venture out to vineyards, battlefields, museums, and even horse farms.

Each rally includes a detailed logbook with mileage and turn-by-turn directions, though many rely on modern GPS. The vibe is relaxed – more cowboy than stopwatch – and the goal is simple: enjoy the drive, share the experience, and maybe swap cars with a fellow enthusiast for a new perspective.

Spotlight

Notes

(COVER PHOTO): Gunther recalls one of his favorite memories – taking a 1929 Packard Hoop Roadster around Lime Rock Park. It wasn’t about lap times; it was about unleashing the “boy racer” within. These rallies aren’t allergic to speed – they just savor it differently.
Gunther adds: Restoration Shops are the Hidden Gems. One of the highlights of these tours is visiting restoration shops. From White Post Restorations to hidden gems specializing in Chryslers, Lincolns, and even rare BMWs, these stops offer a behind-the-scenes look at automotive craftsmanship. For many, including myself, these visits spark a newfound appreciation for the art of restoration.

and much, much more!

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everyone. Crew chief Eric here. And with me today is special guest Gunther Hoyt, director of the colonial community. Classic Car club and a prominent member of the Old Dominion Region of the Packard Club. Today we’ll be discussing the Motorsports discipline called Road Rally, also known to some of you as touring or Jim Kana.

We’ll also dig into what it’s like to own a classic car in today’s computerized digital era, as well as getting to know Gunther a little bit better. As some of our listeners might recall. I spent the better part of a week last year playing journalists and cameraman for the classic car club tour in Virginia, where I was fortunate to spend a lot of time [00:01:00] and laughs with Gunther.

With that, welcome to Break Fix.

Gunther Hoyt: It’s good to be here and I hope I can shed some light on our amusing activity.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. So let’s get into it, right? Our, our membership and our fan base is all about motorsports, right? And so motor, the definition of motorsports for us is really anything with an engine and a way to steer it.

So that could be boats, it could be airplanes, it could be cars, but within that there’s a multitude of disciplines and most people recognize. The more popular ones be it circuit racing like formula one or net oval racing like nascar autocross kart racing drag racing Etc. All the stuff that’s publicized on tv But what most people don’t realize is scca for many many years has an officially sanctioned discipline known as road rally Which is very close to exactly what you guys do in the classic car club.

So I wanted to start off by Having you describe what it is You to go on tour, to go on one of these [00:02:00] road rallies, what the expectations are and what, why someone would want to go on that.

Gunther Hoyt: Sure. Let’s speak about classic car packer club. It’s about the same activity and usually has the same structure.

Number one, what we try to do is organize around a hotel. that is convenient. And that means easy parking, quiet road, so that we don’t enter a five lane crazy highway right away. Usually we try to find a place that has some historic charm to it. And from this base hotel, we fan out to interesting sites, be they the Museum of the Horse in Middleburg, or a vineyard, or in some cases a battlefield, usually Civil War.

On some occasions, we specialize only in a particularly charming stretch of highway, sometimes [00:03:00] with some real hill climbs, and lots of curves, and other times just rolling flat hills. We create a log book for these tours with very carefully laid out routes and mileage indicated, but we do not have the discipline of a classic rally with clocked stops and precision log books and all the rest of it.

This is a bit more casual, relaxed, cowboy style touring in the age of the, uh, the good iPhone. Of course, you can, you could just put Google Maps on and that will take care of your logbook and tells you pretty much where to turn right, left, and go straight. It was particularly fortuitous that Alan had organized your group as part of our Spring Tour, because it gave us a whole new dimension, including looking at the opportunity to drive on a track.[00:04:00]

I will say one of the high points of my touring career was in a 1929 Hoop Roadster Packard. Uh, racing around Lime Rock, so it’s not like we are allergic to this type of activity. Quite the opposite. It brings out the boy in all of us, certainly the boy

Crew Chief Eric: racer. And I can, I can, I can attest to that because I remember when, during the tour last year, when you and Alan swapped cars and we had, we had probably the slowest drag race I’ve ever been involved in between, you know, Your super eight and the thing

Gunther Hoyt: That’s right That’s right.

And that’s part of the charm too that people trade cars To to give each member an opportunity to try out your car and we exchange ideas about driving characteristics And mechanical condition and give each other tips on why don’t you try this or try that? So there’s a great deal of technical exchange as well as driving [00:05:00] experience, trying to come up with interesting events during these tours.

Since we tend to tour mostly in Virginia, after as many years as we’ve been doing it, you tend to run out of traditional, uh, sites. So, Alan did a brilliant job of recreating the whole event, and uh, including your, uh, your organization, and then of course, inviting ourselves into many very elegant and beautiful horse farms.

That’s the kind of extra that, uh, Doesn’t occur on every tour.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of that, we did a lot of restoration shops, which I’m a big fan of. I, it’s kind of funny. I attribute my new found interest in what I call restoration shows because of the tour I went on with you guys, because we went to white post because we went to some of the other ones and saw these cars in various different stages of their progression and their restoration.

And for me, for whatever reason ignited a new found passion. And so I’ve been really [00:06:00] diving into a lot of those and actually have a better eye of critiquing them now, having talked to some of those professionals. So was that always something that was part of the tour or was that something that Alan brought?

Gunther Hoyt: No, actually a restoration shop. is frequently a component, not always, because sometimes they’re just not available. But when, when we are in an area as rich in restoration activity as northern horse country, we take advantage of it. And each visit is an eye opener. Okay, hit that right on the head. The BMW, okay, the 327, a fabulous car that we saw at White Post.

White Post specialized in the Chrysler, big Imperial Chrysler limousines. That’s something special. They specialize in the beautiful Lincolns of the 55 56 period. It broadens our horizons, uh, because it’s not necessarily classic car restoration, [00:07:00] but four wheel automotive restoration. And to see a 327 BMW with that incredible story of the American officer bringing it back home, why, that’s, that’s a new dimension, and it’s a wonderful dimension.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s take a moment to define what is a classic car. So by by the official definition of your group, I know there’s very specific rules on what is and what isn’t. And I know you and I debated. We played the whole does this count? Does this not for a while there? So for our audience, what what does constitute a classic car?

Gunther Hoyt: The Classic Car Club, when it was founded, attempted to define it as a coach built car, that is a car with a wooden frame and metal over the wood, which is the traditional coach built concept of manufacturing fine, fine cars. Until 1939, this was by and large the, the, the way a fine senior Packard was manufactured.

But at this point, [00:08:00] Cadillac had already moved to all steel construction for his famous 60 special, which is considered a classic. What I’m trying to say is that we’ve been nibbling at the edges of the definition for many, many years now. And today, the, the town and country from the post war period, the Chrysler has also been Officially permitted to be called a classic by the classic car club, and we have ventured pre 1924 into some of the older almost brass era cars also, but we’re still trying to maintain 1924 1939 1940 as the traditional perimeters, with a few additions on the outriders on the outside.

I can. Tell you one thing, that the Town and Country decision came with a great deal of pain and anger. Those who were happy made just as many people very, very unhappy. People have strong opinions in this club. I would say [00:09:00] the safest definition is the wood framed. body that is called a coach built car.

Crew Chief Eric: And I’ve, I’ve gone back and I’m sure many other people will too. If you visit the classic car club of America’s website, there’s actually a whole listing of cars that qualify for entry into the organization. And it’s, and you and I had talked about this where you can petition for vehicles to be added to the registry.

So long as they meet certain criteria of specialty or limited quantity low production runs, etc But they do have to be of the utmost as you like to phrase it luxury. They can’t just be a sports car You couldn’t that’s

Gunther Hoyt: right

Crew Chief Eric: You couldn’t say I want to put a vw beetle in there or or a lotus seven or something like that It has to be a very particular and special car to be added to that registry

Gunther Hoyt: Well, i’ll give you i’ll give you an example, especially in europe.

There’s a a bit more activity In recreating very famous cars that were destroyed in the war or were lost. Uh, Horch [00:10:00] comes, comes to mind as a brand that had a few models that were just bombed to smithereens in the war.

Crew Chief Eric: And for those that don’t know, Augustus Horch was the founder of Audi. There’s a whole, there’s a whole backstory on that in an article I wrote called what’s, what’s in a name.

So you can search the website for that.

Gunther Hoyt: That’s right. So for example, these, the, there were a couple of models that were built. From a historically correct chassis and then built with wood and metal and historically as accurate as possible, but there are 100 percent recreations, but those kinds of cars, we obviously would consider classics.

People do this with Bugatti every now and then, certainly in the Duesenberg world and in the Rolls Royce world, many, many times have the bodies been changed over the period of a long history. 1928 Duesenberg limousine is suddenly a Murphy Roadster. This happens.

Crew Chief Eric: Let me ask you this, because I ask people a lot of times the question, you know, [00:11:00] why that car?

Why this car? And the answer oftentimes is summarized best by, it’s the cars that you grew up with. That are the ones that you gravitate towards and I know I’ve heard that from several people in the classic car club that that’s why they have their passions and Packards and Cadillacs, etc. So it makes me wonder, is that why you’re invested in the Packards?

And also, what would be the appeal for someone in today’s generation to latch on to these vehicles as you as you see things moving forward?

Gunther Hoyt: Yeah. Well, I would say the generation one back that was motoring and active, even as young children, pre World War II, they could legitimately say, Oh, I grew up with a Packer 12, or I saw a Super 8, or I saw a Duesenberg, or, or they participated in the real world and, and would then Have these cars after World War Two, and that’s how the classic car club was founded.

Okay, but the car club was founded in the very [00:12:00] early 50s, and those people were children or very young men in the 30s and early 40s. So they remember these cars and then we’re able to buy them and get them running again, in many cases. Our generation is one beyond that. So, we are going a little bit more by historic record or our father’s love of these cars.

In my case, my grandfather’s had Packards. So, I grew up with the love of Packards. The, the lore of Packard and the stories of Packard and how good they were and how elegant they were and the family photographs and movies in some cases that exist. Uh, and I think that’s true for many of the other members who are at least one generation removed from the actual driving experience of the car in its heyday.

Today, there’s That’s a whole new issue. How do we excite a younger person, well a person like [00:13:00] you, to hop into a Packard and take it around the track? And all I can say is, here’s the car, here are the keys, go for it. And I think once you do that, you just fall in love.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s so simple. And I will say from driving your super eight and I appreciate you letting me behind the wheel of that last year, the mechanics of it, because they were standardized by Cadillac much, much earlier than yours is a 37.

If I remember correctly, much earlier than that time period, it was simple. It was like driving a, Volkswagen from the two thousands. I just jump in and start driving. The only thing I found awkward was obviously this, uh, the suspension and the steering geometry itself with those long kind of forward trailing arms or tie rods to the front suspension.

You know, how much it took to actually maneuver the vehicle was a little bit surprising and it took some time to get used to, but, but taking off from a stoplight when the manual manual is a manual at the end of the day. I will say I found some things really interesting and very ahead of their time riding with various owners where it was like, [00:14:00] Oh, this has, you know, vacuum assisted semi automatic clutch and all these kinds of things and dials here on the steering wheel where I can adjust the timing and in advance and all these kind of things.

And I didn’t realize how complicated the older cars could be, but also the beauty and their simplicity. So there’s like this double edged sword there where you can, as you mentioned earlier, really geek out on them, but on the same token, you. You don’t want to shy away from them to go. Uh, well, it’s like a hundred years old Why do I even want to bother there’s there’s a lot there to dig into and unpack

Gunther Hoyt: Well, I mean I I grew up on bmw 2002s And I still love driving a 37 packer.

I mean, i’m i’m pretty versatile when it comes to cars. I i’ve had five audi tt so it’s it’s not like I uh I stayed with 1937 and i’m tied to it But the driving experience is very interesting because it’s got a relatively long wheelbase In my case, 134 inches, and it, it, it, it, it floats [00:15:00] through the curves.

I mean, once it sets itself, it’s pretty good. The line is, is good and it keeps the line. And the front suspension of a 37 Packard was pretty revolutionary. It’s independent. And it was considered so powerful. premium that Rolls Royce patented it for the Phantom 3, which was its premium 812 car. This suspension is fundamentally in its various forms still around today.

It hasn’t changed that much, especially with a stabilizer bar. Those cars stayed pretty flat on the road up front. It’s the rear where the car is quite basic with their rigid axles and, uh, and their springs. Some of the premium European cars actually did offer independent rear suspension. The premium Mercedes, the 500, 540ks did.

A horse with its premium cars also did. But that was not necessarily the standard or the norm. [00:16:00] Certainly not with Rolls Royce. But those were very limited edition cars, whereas Packard built 4, 000 Super 8s in 1937. Just a whole different dimension.

Crew Chief Eric: So one of the things that comes to mind often when we talk about modern cars, because you have to, we come from a different discipline, right?

Most of us on our side, though we branch out, a lot of us are grounded in circuit racing. And so we’re running production cars or GT cars or, you know, like touring cars on, on circuits. And it gets to a point where spec series racing changes from year to year because they phase cars out and they become unpopular.

And it all really revolves around parts scarcity. And we’ve seen that even in mass produced vehicles from let’s say the seventies and eighties, not necessarily American cars where there’s a huge backing for, you know, getting parts for your, your Mopar and your Chevy and whatnot, but a lot of the European cars, especially, you know, lower production, you know, sports cars, it’s getting harder and harder to find parts.

[00:17:00] And so that, that. Question comes up a lot when we talk about, you know, what car should I buy? So i’m going to propose the question to you Because I think that would be at the front end of someone’s thinking when they would be thinking about a classic car In the era that we’ve been talking about is how difficult is it to find parts?

To maintain the vehicles service them and things of that nature. What’s your your opinion on that?

Gunther Hoyt: Well I’m glad you asked that question, because I can answer it very quickly, having had to do a lot of part sourcing, or even helping friends source parts. In the case of Packard, the sheer volume of luxury car production made it very helpful.

I just posted a 1928 photograph this morning, and I was amazed that in 1928 Packard built 40, 000 premium luxury cars. The cheapest car was 2, 200 in 1928, which was a huge amount of money, okay? A worker made 1, [00:18:00] 000 in, in, in 1928. So, we have quite a few parts from, I would say, the late 20s and certainly from much of the 30s.

For our cars, quite a few of the parts were made by independent manufacturers, whether it’s AC or, or Delco, Ramey, Autolite, a lot of names that are still around today. And those, those parts, especially for carburetors and for Stromberg, for example, or, or for, for distributors, plugs, all those things are.

quite readily available. And then in the case of Packard, we have two really superb parts suppliers, Cantor Brothers in New Jersey and Max Merritt in Indiana. And Fred Bruner is the genius that has literally, you know, A mind like [00:19:00] a catalog, and you could call him up and say, Fred, here’s what I need, and he will say, if it’s not readily available in his database, he’ll say, give me 24 hours, and 24 hours later you get photographs of what he has.

gas pumps, for example, which are A. C. vacuum pumps, why you send in your old unit and he sends you a rebuilt unit. So much of this is send in the

Crew Chief Eric: core and get it rebuilt. And that’s a dying art form there because I think a lot of us probably have this mental image that, you know, you’re calling up this, this gentleman in Illinois and it’s, like an episode of American Pickers.

He’s going through 16 barns that are dilapidated trying to find parts, original parts for a packer. But it’s pretty organized.

Gunther Hoyt: Yeah, well that’s computerized. So is Cantor Brothers. And I’ve done, I’ve done a lot of business with both and they’re they’re just excellent. And then for the really hard to get stuff, why you will have to turn to somebody who has to hunt up an old part.

And then you have to get it refurbished. Sure. [00:20:00] There are certain years where it’s very hard to get a carburetor. Okay. Detroit lubricators are not as readily available. And when they are available, they will cost a serious amount of money. So a good, Platinum credit card doesn’t hurt .

Crew Chief Eric: It’s not, it’s not much different in the racing world.

Gunther Hoyt: I mean No, it’s not. Of course not. And if you own a Mercedes or A BMW, your dealer’s always grinning at you with three gold teeth

Crew Chief Eric: hundred and you paid for them. And in the modern cars we call that, you know, with the BMWs, we call it the M tax for like the M three and we had the portion exactly, of course the MT tax, I’m

Gunther Hoyt: sure.

So it’s a, I’m sorry. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a supply chain that’s really pretty good for Packard. Okay. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s really very good on top of that. Most good restoration shops that specialize in Packard, they’ll have parts. So there, there’s a great deal of trading going on. And if, if, uh, [00:21:00] Fred doesn’t have it, maybe Cantor Brothers does, or someone else who specializes in restoring Packards.

Last not least, we can’t forget Hershey, which covers the entire car world. And Hershey is the place of last resort, where you go with a picture of what you’ve got, or what you need, or you take your old part and you hunt for it. And frequently you’ll find it. If you don’t find it, uh, the first who’s somebody says go see joe over and on chocolate field and off your troop and you find it so I’ve i’ve Basically been very lucky.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean from the experiences that I had with you guys Especially going to the restoration shops and hearing all the stories. I found it To be very much more positive than what I’m used to where it seems like everyone in the classic car world seems to collaborate. They want to work together. They are very much more altruistic in the sense that they want to keep these cars on the road.

They want to keep them preserved. They’re willing to help each [00:22:00] other out in the racing world. It’s a little bit more me first in the gimme gimme. Where it’s like, well, I got this special part that makes me faster than you. And I don’t want to tell you where I got it from, you know, that kind of thing. So it’s, it’s, it’s very converse, uh, with respect to, to sharing of, of information now, granted, one of the, our premises is that specific cars that we cater to, we try to put out, build information where to source the parts.

You know, there’s really no recipe. I want to help you go faster. That’s part of my guarantee. So I, I aligned myself more with. With your guys mentality in that sense, but it was very much a breath of fresh air to, to see that firsthand when we went to all those different shops where they’re very much more.

Gunther Hoyt: What you just told me is a revelation to me because we’re just the opposite. Everybody tries to help everyone else truly. And folks are always, oh, let me check in the back. I might actually have something. Sure, they’ll say, look, you owe me a thousand bucks. Fine. Usually you’ll pay that if it’s [00:23:00] near and dear to you.

But my last experience, not to belabor a point, but sometimes a story like that is a good way to illustrate the point. Our cars have shutters that open automatically with a thermostat. And mine. My thermostat wasn’t working, so I called Fred. He said, look, Hunter, we, we’ve reproduced these, so there’s no core.

You know, give me 450 bucks, and I’ll send you a new one. That happens too.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go.

Gunther Hoyt: Certain high use parts are made new. So that,

Crew Chief Eric: And so that brings me to two more questions. The first one being, we’ll talk specifically about the Packard because you’re a resident expert. And I mean, I follow you on Instagram and if anybody wants to learn more about Packard’s follow at Gunther Hoyt on Instagram, he’s put, he posts every day.

I don’t even know where you get all the material from and it’s all very informative, but. I guess the question is, what are, what would you say are the top three or four things that fail in a classic car that you do have [00:24:00] to keep after season after season?

Gunther Hoyt: Well, I think the distributor cap is pretty critical just to keep the car properly running.

Fuel pump, distributor cap. I would say the rotors, I could get, I can get rotors for my car. and advanced auto.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, wow. I

Gunther Hoyt: get the plugs that advance auto. They’re 10 millimeter, basically lawnmower plugs. Not that difficult. The rotor, the caps are always trickier. Okay. So you should always have a good cap and have one in, In reserve just in case without a cap.

You can’t drive the car You should you should have the parts with you that you need to drive the car. That’s really important

Crew Chief Eric: That is very similar to us I mean when we travel long distances to a track you bring half a car with you because you’re never sure Well, we don’t have to go that

Gunther Hoyt: far, but we do have to have The distributor has to be functioning frankly speaking.

I think the most important thing Otherwise is [00:25:00] to is to keep your carburetor Don’t wait until it, it craps out on you. I mean, do replace it fairly routinely so that it doesn’t start leaking suddenly on a critical tour. Number one, it’s a fire hazard. Number two, you will not drive your car. So, I would say some of these basic things you ought to change out every five years.

Just do it.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a longer schedule than I thought. So every five years is not bad. Yeah. So that led me to my, the second part of my question, which was, and it sounds to me like in your case specifically, that you’re not a purist when it comes to, it needs to be a genuine Packard part or whatever it might be.

And I think that’s another fear in people’s minds is it has to be OE to be considered, you know, the pure, you know, the purest of the pure. And I’m sure there are purists out there, but. Is that really a concern or are there mods as what we would call in our world mods that are worth it? Things that you’ve seen that hey, they’ve redeveloped this part.

It’s really worth doing that upgrade as an example [00:26:00] Alan richards with the lebaron where he added the overdrive Because it was not a really great car to drive on a long tour. He needed the extra gear What do you think about modding these cars? Well,

Gunther Hoyt: my car has literally two modifications And I firstly, most of those I think are perfectly okay.

One is, I run it on radial tires. To me, that’s just common sense. The car handles better, it rides better, and it certainly stops better. So that’s just number one. Number two, my car has a distributor cap that is not the original Delco Raimi cap. Okay. And I, what I’m trying to say is the, the, the, the, the wire configuration is different, but it’s a cap that’s new and it’s off the shelf.

I have the original Delco Raimi with pins to, to lock the wires in, but I don’t use that when I’m driving, this is a traditional [00:27:00] suction cup. So those are the two things on my car where I would say, if you’re a judge, you might. Take offense, but if you’re judging the car today in the Classic Car Club, radial tires are now no longer penalized.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s for, that’s judging for a Concours d’Elegance, basically.

Gunther Hoyt: If you give your cap, they would probably say, hmm, it’s a gray area. So that’s I won’t get stuck on the road.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. And then, and so there’s a, there’s a discussion there about reliability. So in this case, you, you’ve got two, I don’t want to call them disciplines, but you’ve got two things going on here.

You’ve got the touring and you’ve got the concourse. And obviously if you’re trying to win in concourse, you want to keep the car as period appropriate as possible, as original as possible, but let’s just talk about getting people back into this, into this genre of cars, into this discipline, and, If I wanted to buy a Packard for the street, are there certain things that you would just say, you know what?

I don’t care about concourse. These are the things I would do if I had my dream [00:28:00] Packard. I wanted to drive it every day What what would some be some tasteful things or some modifications that you could see doing? For a car that didn’t need to be in a concord.

Gunther Hoyt: Well Number one there are two ways to go about making the car run At more modern speeds one is to use an overdrive or in my case and that was another Modification I use A 345 to one instead of the traditional 445 or 404s or 409s were offered back then.

They were much higher revving rear ends. So my cars has a rear end that makes it much more leisurely to drive at 60, 65 miles an hour. And I bought it, by the way, from a master restorer named Phil Hill. Okay. Everyone knows Phil Hill because he really lived in both worlds, your world as a modern racer at a very, one of the best.

And he lived in the world of Packards [00:29:00] and p and, and Pierce Arrows, both of which he drove, uh, a lot and, and, uh, the Pierce one at Pebble Beach. Phil Hill had a foot in both camps and he definitely modified. His classics, and they did win first at Pebble with rear ends. No judge will ever know that anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, they’re not taking it apart to figure out the dimensions and whatnot. Let me ask you this. I know you have a heavy bias towards Packards, and there’s the whole Packard No, go ahead, I No, no, no. There’s the whole Packard Cadillac discussion, which I do want to get into. Sure. But let me ask this question.

And I think I asked you this. I think I asked every owner on the tour. There’s some cars that people gravitate towards. There’s some they gravitate away from. So it’s another double edged question. A, if I was starting out in the classic car world, what is a good entry vehicle? that would give me the all around experience, and let’s, let’s put Packard’s to the side, something else, uh, good entry vehicle, and then, in your [00:30:00] opinion, vehicles to stay away from.

Gunther Hoyt: Well, I would jump on a, on a good Buick. They’re beautiful. They’re just beautifully styled. I, I, I think they’re much more affordable entries. No, the, the Buick would be a terrific place to start. I know that our friend, uh, Al Becker is a big Buick. Pro. He could probably tell you much more expertly, but I think the part supply is very, very good.

And General Motors made so many parts in their own subsidiaries, supply of critical ignition parts and Carburation. I’m sure that’s just as good as Packard. Cars to stay away from. Well, I’ll tell you what to stay away from, as beautiful as it may be, is anything that was made in very, very low. I would definitely, I’m sorry, I’m going to say something terrible.

Stay away from Kords and Auburn’s. Unless you’ve got limitless funds, because the part supply [00:31:00] is, is not that strong. Everything would have to be made custom, or you’d have to find it with a long, long, hard search. They’re difficult. The chords, especially the later ones, the Gordon Burek ones, they were not made in very large quantities.

Volume and they were never refined to be truly reliable. So those kinds of cars, they’re beautiful, but they’re hard to maintain. And if you’re going to get into the hobby, get something that won’t kill you. Don’t kill your pocketbook. And the fun to me is driving. So if you buy a car that always breaks down or always has an issue or can’t be driven because you can’t find the part

Crew Chief Eric: that could kill the hobby in a hurry.

Yeah. To your point, I mean, having driven your 37 Super 8 and having been in Alan’s 37 Cadillac Coupe, which Matthew, one of our members, wrote about, and you’ve met Matthew as [00:32:00] well, both cars were surprisingly modern in terms of their driving style, their capabilities, their amenities, and Once I got used to being around them, it made, it made all the sense in the world.

Now, obviously like the later Fleetwoods and things that were on tour with us, those were great. Riding with Bob and his 32 sport, I think it was or 35. I can’t remember off the top of my head now. That was an interesting, that was more of a sports car in comparison to what you and Al Becker had and what Richard has, et cetera.

I think one of the other warnings was don’t go near anything with a weird engine, like, and I’m not trying to call anybody out, but something as an example, like the night engine and people that don’t know what that is, go look it up online. There was a lot of experimenting back then. And to your point, you want to, you want to stay closer to something common with a larger part supply behind it.

Gunther Hoyt: The, the, the night is a, is is a very good case in point. It’s, that’s sort of a little bit of a cult car and yeah, it, it, it’s, it’s, it [00:33:00] may be charming, but it’s really not that good for a tour car, uh, where you and I like to drive to my tours. So I, I, I have 300 miles behind me before I get there, . And, uh, so the car has to be good.

It’s got to take me and get me back home. And it’s got to do that in a fairly good rapid clip. Otherwise I’ll be three days getting up to Middleburg, which I certainly didn’t do that day. I came up in four hours, so I’m driving at a good, healthy clip. I would say you want a car that was made in some volume and had all the bugs ironed out in its day.

Because if it didn’t, those bugs are going to get twice as Bad in the modern era where the part supply is zero and you can’t get good mechanics to work on them. I mean It’s it’s hard to get a guy to work on a night engine at this point.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, absolutely So let’s let’s step back a minute. Let’s talk about [00:34:00] cadillac versus packard Those are the two mainstays in the classic car world both produce some very high level very luxurious prestige Tegis vehicles.

Give me pros and cons of each. And I know you’re, I know what you’re, you’re going to lean towards the Packard, but still let’s pros and cons of each. No,

Gunther Hoyt: no, I mean, I, I think Cadillac, once it made its mind up that it was going to be a serious contender for the top luxury car. did it in a, in a brilliant way with its, uh, V, V 12 primarily and its V 16, and those cars were gorgeous.

I mean, there’s no denying that they were stunning, stunning cars. What is interesting is that Packard remained so dominant, especially once it also brought out the big V 12, until 1940. And after that, Cadillac put its foot down and roared away. I, I think. The sheer clout of General Motors back in Cadillac eventually [00:35:00] made itself felt.

How are the cars in terms of driving? Well, gee, I’ve driven a 60 Special, a Fleetwood 60 Special, that was just fun to drive and very modern, beautifully restored, and it was just a real good, solid, fun car to drive. I have a friend here in Salem, Virginia, right down here where I live, he has a V16. Well, that car almost never gets out because it’s, number one, it’s way too big.

It’s a 34 and it’s got a 154 inch wheelbase. So that’s just beyond big. I think that’s longer than one of Hitler’s big 770ks to give you some sense of comparison. And the engine is, that’s a pretty complex vehicle. Engine the v16. We had one on the tour last spring Uh keeping that on the road keeping it firing.

Just right. That’s a handful. Is it gorgeous? Oh, yeah tremendous That’s a little [00:36:00] too much. I think a v12 cadillac is pretty good If you have a good healthy budget a v12 cadillac is beautiful and it’s a lovely car to drive That would be my take on what I would buy if I was in the market not such a big styling fan after 36.

Then they started to look a little too modern for me, but the early ones around 31, 32, 33. God, they’re beautiful. I’m not at all 200 percent Packard. I got an eye out for a good looking Cadillac.

Crew Chief Eric: Earlier episode of the show, which hopefully you’ll listen to when it, when it actually airs, we talked about, uh, V8 convertibles.

And at one point we were suggesting, you know, starter V8 convertibles. We were looking at cars actually under 50, 000. And on that list, surprisingly enough, you have drop top V8. With or without a manual didn’t matter. You have vehicles like 55 Ford Thunderbird showing up Pontiac Catalina, stuff like that.

And one of the people that was on the discussion actually mentioned, [00:37:00] well, yeah, you could do a Packard Caribbean as well. And so there’s a disconnect there. I think historically where people think of, you know, The Packard it’s, you know, the luxurious kind of gangster car, if you’re going to draw a parallel and then these, you know, early kind of malt shop bebop, you know, early rock and roll convertibles.

So kind of summarize for us, like the history of Packard and how it got there and what inevitably happened, if you don’t mind.

Gunther Hoyt: Sure. Packard was the coach built car of choice in the in the U. S. And then it became, and this decision was made pretty early on, it was one of the export leaders for the premium cars.

Unlike, say, Pierce Arrow or Cadillac, the export division at Packard made damn sure that this car got exported in larger numbers than any other luxury car to all corners of the globe, whether it was China or Japan or Australia, New [00:38:00] Zealand, Europe, very strong exporter early on and stayed that way. It’s interesting that Joseph Stalin drove a 12.

Okay, as one example, the King of Jordan drove a 12, the King of Egypt drove a 12, the Field Marshal Mannerheim in Finland drove a 12 cylinder Packard. Oh, the King of the Belgians drove a Super 8. Okay, so, point being, there were an awful lot of Packards being driven. The Emperor of Japan drove a V12.

Packard convertible sedan and a Packard limousine. V12, 1937. We’ve got to find those two cars because I think they’re in the Imperial Garage. But the point being, Packard was the premium car of choice. I’m amazed they didn’t sell one to Mussolini, but He drove a Fiat. They certainly got around, okay? And Tchaikovsky had Packard.

It was a strong leader of the world. After the [00:39:00] war, I think Packard got off to a slow start. Clipper ran for two years and it was a great car, but then Packard somehow hopped the tracks and tried to be a mass produced car without the money. You can say what you want. I always say what killed Packard was they lost the prestige market.

Once Hollywood switched to a 300 SL, for example, you know, there was a photo of Clark Gable and Gary Cooper and Sophia Loren and, uh, Yul Brenner and everybody driving around the 300 SL. Packard had lost the position that it had in the 30s. Once it lost that, even the Caribbean, which was pretty neat car, and it could have been modified to make it better and better, who was driving it?

Doctors and lawyers and businessmen, but not Ewell Brenner, not Clark Gable, not the trendsetters. Once that happened, Packard didn’t have the money to be a competitor to [00:40:00] Cadillac in the mass produced luxury car. Mercedes Benz took over Hollywood, and that was a slot Packard had. And Cadillac had, and that’s the same thing that killed Cadillac in the end, was they gave up the premium, the trendsetter market.

P8, straight A, and all that silly stuff. If you, if you lose the trendsetter market, you lose your premium pole position.

Crew Chief Eric: So who would you say is the premium pole sitter today?

Gunther Hoyt: Oh, good Lord. I would say, uh, Ferrari, Bugatti, Lamborghini certainly have that slot in the, in the super exotics. That means that.

Mercedes, I didn’t mention them. They really don’t have a car, uh, that competes at that level. Then, of course, you’ve got some pretty nice Bentley Jag offerings, but I would say Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti are the

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, you wouldn’t offer the crown to Rolls Royce? It’s still [00:41:00] standing after all these years?

Gunther Hoyt: No.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s okay. It doesn’t have to be a yes. But I was just throwing it out there.

Gunther Hoyt: It’s I think the demographics are not

Crew Chief Eric: in their favorite

Gunther Hoyt: center has to be A sex symbol of some kind. Okay, a 70 year old driving a rolls royce is not a sex symbol Okay, I don’t give a damn what

Crew Chief Eric: anybody says. Yeah, I got you. I got you.

I agree

Gunther Hoyt: A lovely bentley lovely car. It’s perfect. But it’s it’s not the

Crew Chief Eric: trendsetter Jumping back to part of something you said before, during the war, a lot of auto manufacturers turned towards supporting the war. You know, Ford was making all sorts of armaments and tools and things and sending supplies over.

So, what did Packard contribute to the war effort?

Gunther Hoyt: Well, Packard had, uh, actually, probably the most important contribution. They took the, uh, the Rolls Royce. engine, the Merlin, and made it a high produced [00:42:00] engine. Thousands of engineering changes to make that happen. But then the Merlin engine and the Mustang fighter won the war.

I mean, it, it was the mass produced high speed fighter that could finally knock them out. Uh, out of the sky and then on the ocean, the PT boats were powered by Packard’s, big v twelves, marine engines. So Packard was a, I would say the engine producer of choice for the highest speed machines in the war machine.

Crew Chief Eric: And were those still in lines or were they vs. When was the switch? Oh,

Gunther Hoyt: there were vs vs. When was the switchover for Packard officially. Well, the V 12, Packard invented the V 12 in the 1916 model year, and that was called the Twin 6. And that Twin 6 is what a man named Enzo Ferrari looked at, and a man named Ito Bugatti looked at, although Bugatti switched to the straight engine, and [00:43:00] Ferrari went to the V engine.

Point is, Both are today considered the, the geniuses of exotic out there design, but Packard actually was the, uh, their, their,

Crew Chief Eric: their touchstone. If you could have any three cars from the classic era outside of your Super 8, no money, no object, what would they be?

Gunther Hoyt: A classic era? Oh, I, I, I would, uh, I definitely want to have an open Pierce Arrow.

I might actually have one of the big V12 Lincolns. So it

Crew Chief Eric: sounds like you’re a convertible fan, and yet you drive a coupe. How does that work? Well, because I drive a lot.

Gunther Hoyt: I would love to have a convertible, but I’m at this point, budget and everything else, uh, lifestyle, one car, person, and I’ve got it just right.

But it would be fun to have a convertible or even share it with someone. A convertible is kind of a fun thing to have. However, they have their issues and probably [00:44:00] just a lot easier to hitch a ride with somebody in a convertible.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go. So let’s flip the coin three cars from the modern era if that you would want to have well What’s your definition of modern?

I’m gonna start with 1980 forward where we have fuel injection proper electronic fuel injection forward We’ll go with that.

Gunther Hoyt: Okay. Well, I was a real big Audi TT fan, so I probably flopped back into one of those and Yeah, there’s fun car. Now. Yeah, you’ve challenged me Um, I, I drive an Audi in my modern car, probably a, uh, maybe a Mercedes Coupe,

Crew Chief Eric: you know, just to shake it up a little bit.

Very nice. Of all the Packards, and there’s a lot of them, a lot of different variants, the Super, the Speed, this, that, the Convertible, the Phaeton, etc. Which one’s the best? Of the Packards? Of all of them, from the beginning to the end, which one’s the best?

Gunther Hoyt: Yeah, well, the most reliable and, and, and, and elegant and, and, uh, mechanically interesting.

Oh, I would [00:45:00] say 37 was kind of a nice year because the styling on the seniors was particularly beautiful. I mean, I picked it for a reason. I picked it because it had hydraulic brakes and it had independent front suspension. It was a little less, um, humongous. 134 wheelbases is to say 139 or 143. I mean, that’s a lot of wheelbase to, to try to park in a modern setting.

So you, I would say a 37 coupe roadster, whether it’s a 12 or a super eight.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, when we go backwards from 1980, color was a big influencer in terms of style, look, sex appeal, as you, as you put it out there. So what would you say are, you know, really strong go to colors for a classic car and what are colors to avoid altogether?

Gunther Hoyt: Well, um, I happen to have a 37 brochure and, and, and if you look at the very, very lively color schemes of the twenties, [00:46:00] And they ran up into 31, 32. There was a dramatic shift in, in going from multicolor schemes in the twenties to solo colors. In the thirties, in 37, for example, there was a metallic gold that was offered and there was a very beautiful dark.

silver gray that was offered and straight silver. So metallics were offered all through the 30s. And then of course, Packard Blue being Midnight Blue, very dark, black, ivory beige, Chinatown, the movie, that was an ivory blue. Packard with red leather interior. Come on. I mean, that’s Hollywood. That’s glamour.

So those, that was certainly a very popular color combination. And there was one on our tour. The Dukes had an ivory Packard. The colors to avoid, well, dark colors need a lot of cleaning and shining and polishing. And everything shows, and birds love it. So I [00:47:00] happen to have a Packard blue because I like it, but it does.

Take a lot of cleaning and fussing. The metallic

Crew Chief Eric: colors are beautiful. Can’t duck that. They’re pretty. Looking into, let’s say, the cars from the 60s and 70s, I am not a big fan of those, what I call Bianchi greens, or what people would call like a seafoam green, all those pastels. Those just don’t do it for me.

I mean, I’m, I’m a very, You know, the GTI came in four colors, silver, black, red, and white. That those are my go to, I’ve just heard from certain people that certain colors are to be avoided, some yellows and some oranges, and even the Packards I’ve seen in the classic cars I’ve seen you post on Instagram, I, there’s just been some that I’ve, I’ve showed them to my wife and she’s like, Oh my God, that car is absolutely gorgeous.

And they’re usually the darker metallic color. So I will definitely be there.

Gunther Hoyt: Packard had some, some colors that I, I would, would not, uh, I posted a car on Sunday, Fernandez and Darin, uh, Darin, uh, big convertible sedan with, with a light [00:48:00] brown, tan brown and, and darker brown fenders. I’m not a big fan of brown.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the downside. I hate to say if Alan Richards is listening, that’s the downside to his LeBaron. I’m not a fan of that color.

Gunther Hoyt: Of that a color. Hi Allen. Yeah, that, that, well, that’s exactly his color and no, that, that LeBaron has colors that I’m not that fond of. I like his yellow. That’s kind of a peppy car.

Mm-Hmm. . That, that. I like that. That’s, that’s fine. I mean, the LeBaron is a totally real color, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not the one I would have on a car.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright. With that, I think my wrap up question for you is, is there anything, motor sports, cars, Packard, whatever. That you just want to share an antidote one of your best stories that you’d like to share with everybody.

I think the

Gunther Hoyt: The most fun i’ve ever had truly is is that lime rock? Run where we were on the track and I was in this 20 29 coupe roadster black i’ll send you a picture of it and it was just a [00:49:00] ball I mean, we took it around at a pretty good clip and it gives you the feeling of 1929 at speed That was pretty damn good

Crew Chief Eric: That’s pretty

Gunther Hoyt: cool.

Um, I would say that that was pretty special. I’ve been in some fun cars on some fun terrain, but that that was definitely one of them. And that car was in good shape, so nothing was going to fall off. It’s always a plus. I was just about to say.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. And on that note, like we said before, you can find Find Gunther on Instagram.

He posts daily, if not more constant, you know, stream of information, especially with Packard’s he’s at Gunther Hoyt. Is there anywhere else people can find you or find out more information about classic cars, et cetera?

Gunther Hoyt: Oh, that’s it. That’s where I keep it

Crew Chief Eric: simple. And it’s the classic car club of america dot com website.

That’s correct. That’s correct. Well, Gunther, I can’t thank you enough for sharing your story, taking an hour out of your day to talk with us. I’m sure the listeners will [00:50:00] have tons of questions. We’re going to post a picture of that 29 Packard when you get it to us. It’ll be along with the show notes, etc.

And if you have more questions for Gunther, we’ll definitely get them to you and see what he says. But thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. This was a lot of fun. Take care. Bye now. Bye bye.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read? Great, so do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep [00:51:00] the momentum going so that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content.

So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash GT motor sports, or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help. Can help.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:29 Meet Gunther Hoyt: Classic Car Enthusiast
00:37 Exploring Road Rally and Touring
01:53 The Charm of Classic Car Tours
05:33 Restoration Shops and Their Impact
07:14 Defining a Classic Car
10:55 Challenges and Joys of Classic Car Ownership
17:04 Parts Sourcing and Maintenance
25:25 Modifications and Modernizations
28:32 Phil Hill’s Influence on Classic Cars
29:26 Choosing the Right Classic Car: Entry Vehicles and Pitfalls
33:58 Cadillac vs. Packard: A Deep Dive
37:29 Packard’s Global Influence and Post-War Decline
44:03 Modern Classics and Color Choices
48:34 Memorable Moments and Final Thoughts

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

What Defines a Classic Car?

According to the Classic Car Club of America, a classic car is typically coach-built – wood-framed with metal skin – and produced between 1924 and 1940. But the definition has evolved. Cars like the postwar Chrysler Town & Country have been added, sparking debate among purists. Ultimately, rarity, luxury, and historical significance are key.

Why Packard?

For Gunther, Packards are a family legacy. His grandfather owned them, and the stories passed down through generations cemented his love. Many club members share similar origins—drawn to the cars they grew up admiring or hearing about. For younger enthusiasts, the best way to fall in love is simple: “Here are the keys. Go for a drive.”

GTM member Allen R chatting with Gunther Hoyt about the Packard Straight-8
Gunther Hoyt!

Parts, Mods, and Maintenance

Surprisingly, maintaining a Packard isn’t as daunting as it seems. Thanks to suppliers like Cantor Brothers and Max Merritt, parts are readily available. Many components were made by manufacturers still in business today. And yes, tasteful modifications – like radial tires or upgraded rear ends – are welcome, especially for touring.

Gunther’s advice? Keep a spare distributor cap, maintain your carburetor, and don’t be afraid to modernize for reliability. Even Concours judges are warming up to radial tires.

Getting Started: What to Buy (and Avoid)

If you’re new to classic cars, Gunther recommends starting with a Buick. They’re stylish, reliable, and parts are plentiful. On the flip side, steer clear of ultra-rare models like Cords or Auburns unless you have deep pockets and endless patience. The goal is to drive, not constantly repair.

Unlike the competitive edge of racing, the classic car world thrives on collaboration. Owners share tips, trade parts, and genuinely want to help each other keep these machines on the road. It’s a refreshing contrast – and a big reason why these rallies feel more like family reunions than competitions.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Is Project Cars 3 good?

Eric M

September 4, 2020

As some of you might recall, I teased on Instagram that a full review of Project Cars 3 (PC3) was coming. I’ve been playing PC3 for about a week now and like most racing games I approach them with the same basic criteria: Is it fun? What kinds of tracks does it have? and Is it “real enough” to be a competitive and exciting online experience?

Rewinding a bit, many people might not realize that the Project Cars franchise and it’s parent company Slightly Mad Studios was purchased and merged into the UK-based Codemasters game development studio who is famous for titles like DIRT, GRID and the F1 series of games. When the announcement was made in 2019 that Codemasters was going to absorb Project Cars into their portfolio I said to myself… wait, don’t they already have GRID? … along with 100 other questions. As months passed, and teasers of the game were released, my gut reaction became: maybe this will be a best of both worlds game? With one heavy caveat: PLEASE keep the Madness Physics Engine and not the overused EGO engine found in the flagship Codemasters racing titles.

Now to be fair, I will probably draw some comparisons between PC3 and Forza Motorsports 7 (FM7), as well as PC3’s predecessor Project Cars 2 (PC2) and some other well known titles throughout this article. If you’re not familiar that’s OK, just a fair warning. In addition, I’ve included what I like to call “objection handling” questions that our internal group of hardcore gamers has thrown at PC3 recently.

Game Play Experience

The most important change to PC3 are the CONTROLS. For those of us that played the earlier version, you know that playing without a “racing rig” was near impossible. Codemasters has brought us a version of Project Cars that is finally useable on a console, with a controller. I am happy to report there were no wasted hours-upon-hours of tweaking to be able to make the cars and game playable. phew!

PC3 has taken a 180 from what we’re used to. Where PC2 had a small foot-hold in the “sim” space but was always being stack-ranked against games like iRacing, Assetto Corsa, etc with a constant verdict of “not as good as,” it’s very apparent that PC3 is aimed at taking a bite out of the Forza “arcade-sim” community who are tired of the “same old game” since the launch of the XBOX One + FM5 in 2013.

“I was just watching a game play video and it looks like a mobile game; It looks like a downgrade from PC2”

If you’ve been watching video clips like the one above from Super GT (who is a well respected eSport racing driver) I could see where someone might think that. In his clip, you notice lots of “behind the car views” which to many of us is an unnatural way to play any racing game, unless it’s Mario Kart. This driving style hasn’t been cool since Sega’s arcade hit “Out Run“ in the ’80s-’90s. Playing from the hood/bumper or in-car is the preferred experience to add a proper level of realism. Anything played from behind the vehicle is going to look and feel like a mobile game, like Forza Street which is intended for a mobile audience. At the end of the day PC3 is a console game; and not a PC-port like PC2.

“I heard they got rid of tire wear”

You’re right… and they got rid of a lot more things too. But for everything that was taken away, you have to look at everything that was added in order to make the experience better. Codemasters has brought their menu system, which includes artistic/modern load screens and a loud color scheme. This means a concise UI but also a bright, vibrant and TV-ad like experience full of animations and cut-aways not unlike Forza Horizon (which Codemasters is involved with through their partnership in Playground Games). The music score of PC3 has changed from the dramatic symphonic operas of PC2 to a more upbeat euro background track (not unlike DIRT). They also removed the depth/layer of the menus, it now takes less clicks to get where you need to be… ON TRACK! I will admit a “next race” button would be nice in career mode, instead of having to back out one level and select the next race.

Adding to the list, PC3 got rid of the annoying “tire temperature” feature which complicated races and many of us complained about. It took too long to get the tires warm and then it was a challenge to keep them there (depending on the car) during the race. Although tire temps will now start at “optimal” they will continue to change during racing thereby effecting the overall performance and handling of the vehicle. By removing tire wear and fuel consumption means pit stops became obsolete, but there is method to the madness engine… by removing these “race management” capabilities, it means more track time and more consistent racing. In VRL terms: PARITY. And if that wasn’t enough, the gimmicky Rally and Karting disciplines from PC2 were also scrapped – no big loss there.

The weather system in PC3 is still better than anything else out there especially the dynamic rain physics versus “avoid puddle left side 3/4s of the way down Silverstone front straight” … because its ALWAYS there. Water moves on the driving surface making the experience very unpredictable, hydroplaning possible, challenging and engaging all at the same time. Overall, PC3’s gameplay experience is much more polished than earlier versions. You can pop in/out of the game easily, and more importantly you won’t be frustrated and rage quit 10 minutes into play.

“From the videos I’ve watched, I am probably gonna pass on PC3. The physics just look jank”

Not to belabor the point, but the physics ARE improved over PC2 – but you’d have to have spent lots of time with PC2 to appreciate what has changed. As mentioned previously, my biggest concern going into PC3 was that Codemasters was going to gut PC2, keep the tracks and the cars and switch to the EGO engine from DIRT/GRID/F1. Thankfully, its still the madness engine, but it’s 1000x more user-friendly. Drifting is possible now with out dying in a firey-blaze or ridiculous rollover. Drafting actually works unlike the “Forza vacuum” and the cars are overall LESS “twitchy.” Street/sports cars are actually enjoyable to drive! … And the race engineer is GONE because modding/tuning cars is now an option NOT a requirement. The new “mod system” (below) is akin to that of other Codemasters titles, simple.

But there is a catch… PC3 (like PC2) is really designed for you to drive like you’re on a proper race track. If you’re smooth and drive the line, you’ll be fast. The game beats you back for driving like an idiot: cutting corners, being overly aggressive, etc results in the “penalty system” kicking in, potentially ruining your session. Again… #drivetheline

More tracks, More interesting cars…

PC3 doesn’t hold the title for “most cars” in a racing game. Does it really need 750 cars of which 25 are the ones you actually care about? What PC3 does have is roughly 200 cars, many of which are historic race cars setting itself apart from the Forzas, Gran Tourismos and Need for Speeds in that regard. I would argue that PC3 has the largest catalog of “Race Cars” of any racing game out there. PC3 shored up their “street/sports” car entries by bringing in more vehicles (including EVs) to round out the roster. I really don’t see spec Pontiac Aztek being a necessity… but who knows? #DLC.

PC3’s Performance Index/Rating (PIR) or “PI,” as we have called it for ages, is better balanced than Forza. No turbo-charged V8 Buick Roadmasters competing against Golf GTI’s in B-SPEC. This makes the racing tighter and more competitive, especially online. It is nice to know that ALL DLC from PC2 (including tracks), ie: Audi, Porsche, Honda and other packs – is included in PC3 on Day 1. As an aside, racing online with Indy Cars on a “street circuit“ in Shanghai, was actually fun! The cars were incredibly stable and it wasn’t full of crazy shifting and an exaggerated feeling of speed we’re used to with other games, the KERS was functional and useful, not just a silly “BOOST!” button.

The career tree is much more structured and moves along quickly. Moving up also means leveling up your avatar. There are now 7 driver tiers which basically relate to which cars you have access to (even in quick race). Repeating races to get more currency isn’t bad because “replay value” has been added to PC3 borrowing long forgotten ideas from older games like “corner mastery” and “race specific goals” which lead to in-game bonuses and XBOX achievements … remember when games like Forza 4 and Test Drive had this?

I did find that you will hit an impasse with Career mode around Driver Level-3. You will end up broke very quickly if you try to fill your garage with all the cars. You have to be strategic on which cars “to buy” vs “need to upgrade” to carry into the next tier of competition. The more races you run, the more “brand loyalty” you earn upwards of 25% off (maybe more) the price of upgrades. You can rerun races and get more XP, but you can only earn more $$ if you achieved something that you hadn’t in a previous attempt (a session goal, podium, etc). This means you might be forced to sell cars in order to move up.

Creating your own livery along with subtle customization like: license plates (think Need for Speed), and a huge catalog of wheel assortments is nice.

“I personally don’t like the tracks. I haven’t driven on any real tracks really except for Brands Hatch (that I recognize anyway)”

PC3 does excel when you consider that it includes over 120 different tracks which is huge compared to its competitors. Honestly, I’ll take more tracks and less cars – but better quality cars... PC3 offers you the ability to “level up” a car from street > track > race. Which hits close to home, if you’ve progressed in your real life racing career with the same car.

It’s true, you get a lot of road courses in the beginning of career mode, some of which are carried over and recognizable from earlier versions of GRID. PC3’s “road and city” courses are much better than Rio, Prague, Maple Valley, etc (if you’re familiar with Forza). Adding Interlagos is a nice touch, its a famous, fast, but very technical track. Although, I am still waiting for Mid-Ohio!

Some tracks that were exceptionally difficult or had issues in PC2 have been upgraded. For example: the Mojave “Boa” course now has better flow, Sugo and Bannochbrae (the big lake course) in Scotland have been tweaked to allow better passing zones. And for those that remember the “slippery transitions” at Catalunya – gone! Another new track which is visually stunning is “Monument Canyon” (basically Castle Valley, Utah) but not the greatest to race on. Admittedly, the list of tracks is huge, and I haven’t explored them all (yet). #moretocome.

Multi-Player (Online) Experience

The AI drivers in PC3 are formidable and will give you a run for your money… but part of my criteria for judging racing games is the online experience. During my week with the game, I’ve spent some time racing online against real players. Overall, online play has been good and more stable than PC2. Out of 10 races, I won my first race at GP Catalunya – mostly because I drove the line while everyone else was doing the typical “shake & bake”, cutting corners and drifting. As for the rest of the races, I averaged 3rd place podiums and a 4th. Mostly because I had a slower car on larger tracks. It’s hard for a McLaren Senna to out run a Rimac or Lotus Evija in a straight line – but the competition was fierce nonetheless.

Multiplayer might not be “as good as” what we’ve come to expect from Forza. However, the lobby is simpler than PC2 and from a stability perspective it’s 100,000x better. A nice bonus for playing online – though you don’t earn $$ – you can still earn “discounts” and “loyalty” for cars you don’t own by completing sessions. Therefore, when you finally earn enough to have that McLaren Senna in your virtual garage, parts/upgrades are much cheaper!

The penalty system is automatic and doesn’t pull punches. You see “cheaters” getting nailed all the time. When the penalty system does kick in …it can be a bit jarring. Take a little too much curbing at the bus stop (T4) at the Glen… WHAM! … 2nd gear limit 60 mph for about 5 seconds. Many might be thinking… “great, you just created a road block or rolling chicane by doing this,” – quite the opposite… the Devs thought ahead and while you’re being penalized you are immediately put into ghost mode thereby not interfering with the other racers giving them a chance to catch up or pass. PC3 also expanded the online “Reputation” and “Safety” ratings for drivers. You get and throughout the race, and at the end it updates your “racing license” and reputation letting other drivers know what you’re like to race with.

“Are they releasing PC on the new system (XBOX Series X)? I don’t want to buy another game for the XBOX One since the Series X will be coming out.”

When I received my physical copy of PC3, I was surprised to see the label at the top “for XBOX One and XBOX Series X”. However, it is unclear if PC3 is designed to render the full 4k, etc. The Series X WILL have a BluRay drive, so for me that’s just an easy way to retest PC3 on the new console and not have to wait for the digital version to be made available. My hope is that its not just “backwards compatible” but a full 4k experience awaits me on the Series X. I have confirmed in my testing that PC3 is less bandwidth intensive than PC2 and therefore IS stream-able from XBOX to a Windows 10 PC/Laptop with no hiccups.

As for if/when you should buy PC3… that all depends on YOU. Amazon has recently price dropped PC3 to $49.99 and it includes the “Ignition pack” for free (which is merely some visual add-ons for your avatar and car). PC3 does offer a “Season Pass” for around $34.99 with no details yet on what that includes over the next few months.

“Wow – of the 3 Amazon reviews. 2 people said the graphics are terrible… Looks like an Xbox-360 game”

Full transparency – there are some bugs with the graphics – turning off “camera shake” takes care of most of them. But I can see where someone would complain, it makes things look weird when that camera option is enabled. I’ve also noted that the reflections on the hood, in hood view, are very pixelated… almost Super-Nintendo looking – but I’m pretty confident an upcoming patch will fix that.

I did experience another annoying but unimportant graphics glitch which I’ve only experienced (so far) with the Subaru BRZ. I’m carrying this car through career mode starting with the stock Subi-WRC-blue. Randomly the car color would change, usually to red at the start of a race. I figured, well… maybe I should explore the customization screens and repaint my car black and add some vinyls. It still randomly changes to red, and sometimes blue. But my decals and license plate stay in tact!

There is also a “blurry red border” almost like the “blood eyes” effect from DOOM that will edge the screen if you hit something, someone hits you, or if you over-rev the motor. It takes some getting used to. At first I was unsure how to correlate this “redness” to what was going on in the race – but now it makes sense… visual warning. It’s not overly annoying, but it’s there … though I wish I could turn it off. The HUD is configurable which allowed me to remove a lot of the “mobile game” pop ups many people have criticized thus far (below) providing a more “Forza-like” experience.

“So what’s the verdict on PC3 – Is it worth it?”

It’s better than Forza. That’s my overarching verdict. And it has nothing to do with the game itself but rather the access to the Cars and the Tracks. Many of us agree that Forza hasn’t really changed much since FM5. Couple face lifts here and there and heck… FM7 felt like FM6-Service-Pack-1 when it released. PC3 doesn’t play that differently than Forza but PC3 is fresh and exciting. Being a fan of IMSA, DTM, TCR, etc… the idea of racing those cars on new tracks is what has my attention. And I’m not sure I can slog through the winter months until a Spring 2021 release of Forza-8 on a brand new platform.

I have to say… I feel bad for Project Cars, if you read enough internet reviews literally everyone has complained and belly-ached about how hard PC2 was and therefore how terrible it was. PC2 was in this grey area between Arcade-Sim (Forza / Gran Tourismo) and Full-Sim (iRacing / Assetto Corsa). Having one foot in each camp just wasn’t doing anything for Project Cars. I applaud Codemasters for making a hard decision on where the franchise belongs. Games like these are a compromise, you can’t have everything or please everyone … and there is currently no game that can “do it all.”

Sadly, Codemasters listened to all the complaints (trolls) and made a game that is more “accessible” and “driveable” – yet everyone is lamenting that its not like PC2 – a game they hated! Unfortunately, this is where a “demo version” would be helpful and skepticism will be PC3’s inevitable downfall. It’s a lose-lose situation. There are lots of pluses compared to the previous versions, expect it to be a complete 180 – if you’re familiar, but in the end reset your expectations and try to approach PC3 as a new game… enjoy what Codemasters has done. Stop thinking about it as a sim, start thinking about it as the next Forza-killer.

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From PDX to HPDE: How WDCR SCCA Built a Community-Driven Track Experience

Gran T

September 1, 2020

From PDX to HPDE: How WDCR SCCA Built a Community-Driven Track Experience

At Gran Touring Motorsports, we’ve always believed that motorsports should be accessible, educational, and above all – fun. That’s why we sat down with leaders from the Washington DC Region (WDCR) of the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) to explore the evolution of their High Performance Driver Education (HPDE) program. What started as a grassroots initiative has grown into one of the most respected track experiences in the country.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Back in 2006/07, WDCR SCCA launched what was then called PDX (Performance Driving Experience). Influenced by programs from BMW and Audi Clubs, and spearheaded by GTM members Ron Shurie and Matthew Yip, the goal was simple: create a flexible, welcoming track program for enthusiasts of all skill levels. Over time, the name evolved to HPDE, and today, the official SCCA term is “Track Events” – but locally, HPDE still resonates.

WDCR was one of the first SCCA regions to run standalone HPDE events, setting the tone for others like St. Louis and New Jersey to follow. The program’s success lies in its adaptability, community focus, and a commitment to continuous improvement.

Notes

What Makes WDCR HPDE Unique?

We asked Chief Instructor Joe Obenberger, Assistant Chief Instructor Baron Mills, and former HPDE Chairman Travis Dixon what sets their program apart. Here’s what they had to say:

Community First: From novice classrooms to advanced run groups, WDCR fosters a sense of belonging. Everyone—from instructors to students—is a volunteer, creating a supportive and inclusive environment.
Flexible Format: Whether you’re driving at 60% or chasing lap times, there’s room for every kind of enthusiast. The program supports a wide range of goals, from skill-building to social connection.
Instructor Excellence: WDCR leverages talent from across SCCA, including record-holding drivers and seasoned coaches. Many instructors also teach with other organizations, bringing best practices back to WDCR.
Track Time Value: Students get serious seat time—up to 130 minutes per day for advanced drivers. That’s about $6 per minute, compared to $17 per minute at an autocross event.
Continuous Evolution: The team makes major updates annually and tweaks the format after every event based on participant feedback.

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts, but we’ve expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we want to share our stories with you. Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge and information through our podcast, Brake Fix.

What’s going on everyone, and welcome to another installment of Brake Fix. I’m your host, Brad, aka The Triple Six. With me, as always, is our co host, Eric. Tonight,

Crew Chief Eric: we have a panel of folks from the Washington DC region of the Sports Car Club of America here to educate us on their new and improved high performance driver’s education program, also known as HPDE.

With us tonight are Chief Instructor Joe Obenberger, Assistant Chief Instructor Barron Mills, and former HPDE Chairman Travis Dixon. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. Thank you. Hi Eric. Hi Eric.

Crew Chief Brad: Our goal tonight is to continue the conversation we’ve been having with our listeners over several BrakeFix episodes where we introduce the idea of high [00:01:00] performance driving to folks that are new to motorsports.

Folks who are curious about what they can do with the sports car they have sitting in their garage, or maybe aren’t aware that organizations like SCCA offer a service like HPDE.

Crew Chief Eric: In our preparation for this episode, we found a little bit of history on your guys program. Originally, it was known as PDX or performance driving experience.

It is now known as the SCCA HPDE and has been around for quite some time. From what we found, it started in the 2006 to 2007 season. And we can attribute some of that to two members of GTM who were influential in getting that program off the ground. Racer, Ron Sherry and Matthew Yip. Thanks And from what we’ve gathered, the original format was influenced by their experiences.

From other organizations like BMW, Audi club, and others. It also turns out that WDCR was actually the first region in SCCA to have an HPDE program. But like every new endeavor, SCCA HPDE wasn’t without its [00:02:00] challenges, but it has become a very successful and reputable service.

Crew Chief Brad: But, but let’s fast forward.

Let’s focus on what’s new and what’s changed. How has SCCA grown the program and evolved it over the last 13 years? What’s the future of SCCA HPDE look like and why should you come out to their next event to check it out? Well, Joe, Barron, and Travis are here to answer all those questions and more.

Crew Chief Eric: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about

Travis Dixon: SCCA HPDE?

I think a little of the back story. back into that history of it is that the program was started by people from a bunch of different other programs. So even with, you know, Matt and Ron were involved, some other folks like from the autocross committee, Jim Howard, who’s no longer in the area with us, you know, those are the folks that they were on the board at the time had been part of solo committee, a bunch of different areas that said, Hey, we want to get into this, into this new area here and a new market really, you know, we saw other clubs doing it and We were always pretty shameless about trying to, you know, beg, borrow and steal the [00:03:00] best parts we could find.

And that’s why it was helpful for folks like Matthew and others to go out and, you know, run with other clubs, instructed and help put on events and such to come back and say, Hey, this is what we saw worked here. It doesn’t work. And we sort of tried to cherry pick the best elements from that and put them together.

At the same time, the collective mindset was a lot of around. Don’t make this into another SCCA program, you know, it was purposely done to not be as as serious business as uh, As some of the other competition programs were when we started we didn’t have time trials running It was just pdx, which was the worst program name ever You know, naming after an airport, never a good sign.

And even today, it’s actually, HPD really isn’t the name now. It’s actually track events is the official name, you know, SCCA still has intellectual property stuff. So they have to have some name that they can stamp a trademark on or whatever. But for our purposes, as, as a, as a regional club, we’ve called HPD because that’s what people know.

Understand and Eric, I’m sure you, you as well as anyone understand that we’re [00:04:00] not the only game in town. And you sort of got to fit in, you can differentiate, but same time, you’ve got to make it clear to people what it is you do. And if you say that, they go, Oh, okay. I know that my buddy talks about that at work.

So that’s what it is.

Baron Mills: To be clear. We should, we should have said this up front, I guess, but, uh, there’s actually two HPD programs within. W. D. C. R. S. T. C. A. Travis, correct me if I’m wrong, but until last year, our H. P. D. E. program was the only full time program independently running program. Nationwide for SCCA.

Travis Dixon: No, there were plenty of others. Uh, yeah. And even in the development of the program, St. Louis region was another one that was sort of an early, early developer of it. And we’ve actually, you know, shared rule sets and then when them and them was such, so we’re probably running the biggest standalone

Baron Mills: events or some other event or something, but

Travis Dixon: it varies.

The, the, the, the original PDX program was designed to be flexible. It was designed to have a very minimal rule set to allow the regions to [00:05:00] use it as they saw fit for that. They could, they could use it as, as a fill in for a race. We were probably one of the first clubs, regions I should say, doing standalone HBD events though in SCCA.

Most of them were using it either as just as a, as a, as a fill in, you know, in between race groups or, you know, Some of them we’re using as a worker perk. It was, it was, Hey, we’re doing a PDX and the entries are all the flaggers who are out there. We gave it to them as a freebie to say thanks kind of thing.

So again, you know, flexibility in the room that you can get away with that

Baron Mills: underneath the region, the SCCA W uh, Washington DC region. There are now two HPD programs and the other one started middle or late last year at Dominion. They have their own program chair. They have their own chief instructor.

We’re Involved with that. We’re helping them bring that up. They’ve got a good start there. I think they’re doing pretty good Let me clear that there are actually two. Uh, we’re very very closely related

Travis Dixon: Yeah, the core group of us that they put on the events at summit point. We’ve actually done I [00:06:00] think Two events at Dominion, the DC region board has been very interested from the inception of Dominion and having a presence there and trying to participate and work with them on that.

And we actually did a couple HPD, you know, events there for a lot of us that are based, you know, north of the beltway. We basically said that, look, you know, we can, we want to keep doing things well, quality over quantity. So the region actually reached out and conscripted a few folks who were interested and from down that.

Part of the world to help duplicate the program that we have at some point, and implement similar things down there, both HPD and the time trials program, actually.

Crew Chief Eric: And I know that your sister org in New Jersey is also doing events at NJMP as well. Not probably not as many as you guys, but they do a few a year now.

Travis Dixon: Um, I, I don’t know. I can’t remember which region is doing that. I know we’ve had several years ago and over the years we’ve had folks from other regions like, like Southern New Jersey come down and spend time with us and, and, and basically see how we do it. And same pattern as us, beg, borrow and steal the things you like and that work [00:07:00] and then, uh, take them home and, and put them to use in, in your, your environment.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean as much as I try to stay agnostic, but yes, you’re right There’s multiple groups out there to look into I guess which begs the question, you know What gets a new driver out of their garage to come out and burn some gas on a track with SCCA? SCCA

Joe Obernberger: is A little bit more unique with the other clubs is this whole community that we seem to have, especially in our classrooms, the novice classroom, the intermediate classroom.

There’s this sense of community that we’re bringing people together and that when they attend the classrooms, when they attend the events, they’re a part of this, this greater community. It is a volunteer organization. Everyone who attends Barron’s does this all the time. We’re all volunteers. And I think that builds a welcoming, environment for students to come to.

Baron Mills: I think kind of the generic comment on HPDE is for me, it’s an adrenaline rush, right? It’s just a lot of fun. And, and one of the neat things about it is you can, [00:08:00] once you come out and just after the first event or two, you There’s so many different areas that can interest different people. Some people love buying speed and working on their car.

Some people like just improving their driving skills. Other people like the community, other people come out and drive at 60 percent all the time and never really advance and they’re happy there and we fully support that kind of driver. Once you kind of get your foot in the door and come out for an event, there’s so many different ways to enjoy the hobby.

Other than just coming out and trying to drive at the limit of the car and the limit of yourself. That’s really, really a fun part, a fun aspect of the hobby.

Crew Chief Eric: So I’d say one thing you missed on the list there is being able to come out and drive full tilt without getting a speeding ticket. I mean, that’s a beautiful thing.

There’s that. Travis brought this up

Joe Obernberger: on time trials. That’s something unique to SCCA. And I think students come out to our events and they see time trials taking place. [00:09:00] I mean, it’s right below, you know, racing. It’s right, right there. And I think they see that. And a lot of them are like, that’s what I want to do.

That’s, that’s for me. You know, as Barron was saying, you got the student that is happy driving 50%, you know, they give it to a hundred and that’s as fast as they want to go. And no more. When I first started doing this, I would see guys at VIR coming in in their Mayottas. Sleeping in their Miatas and then you got the guy coming in the giant RV, you know With like the pit crew and three Ferraris and the whole breadth folks that attend the events

Travis Dixon: As far as what gets people out word of mouth is the biggest thing We see that with other clubs and i’m not saying in any any way to detract from it at all Uh, of the different clubs have different fields for, for how it is.

And it’s groups of people, even, even within the instructors and such, you know, we, we’ve never tried to go in and tell people they shouldn’t run with somebody else. That’s not, not the way we work. We say, this is how we do it. And if you want to come play with us, cool, have fun. You know, we understand if you guys want to go hang with your [00:10:00] buddies and the other club that’s running somewhere else that weekend, that’s cool too.

You know, you’re not going to compete against having a good time with friends at all, ever, no matter what the product

Crew Chief Eric: is. And I’ve heard that before. It’s a sport of convenience. Sometimes, right? I want to go to mid Ohio. So whoever signed up the weekend I’m available at mid Ohio, that’s where I’m going to go, right?

Or that’s who I’m going to go party with. What’s your elevator pitch? To say, Hey, come out and try WDCR HPDE compared

Baron Mills: to other orgs.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Baron Mills: I kind of in a nutshell, when people ask me that I have, I’ve got a couple examples, but one, one of them is it is an HPDE program, but yet it’s part of SCCA. So we get the leverage, a lot of that.

talent down into HPD. We have guys, drivers and instructors and classroom instructors that hold track records at SCCA that are very well spoken that share that wealth of experience to people that are there the first day.

Travis Dixon: When you’re looking at differentiators as well, you know, from an event [00:11:00] perspective, one of the things I like to point out is, is that back to the whole being a club perspective thing, is that we’re not out here.

To pay anybody’s mortgage. Nobody is looking for a paycheck from what we do.

Baron Mills: The other thing I think that we bring is a lot of the leadership team, the committee, and a lot of the instructors instruct for various organizations. So we, we get to see what others are doing right and wrong. And we bring that back and try to integrate it into the program.

So right now I think we’re kind of at this perfect balance where we have the Talent and expertise of the whole national SEC organization available to us if we need it, but over the last couple of years and probably even longer than that, we’ve been pretty flexible. We really, really, really try to listen to our customers and we make a major change once a year and we look at little minor tweaks literally after every event.

So we’re always listening to the customer.

Joe Obernberger: I will add that I think again, it’s, it’s this community that I [00:12:00] think we have that. That a lot of the people that come to an SCCA event. Come to the following SCCA events to have that same sense of community. I mean, back when I first started doing this, I didn’t care who was coming to the events.

I was going by myself and I would hang out by myself and drive and have a blast. But once you build up your, your kind of core set of people, you know, especially if you find someone that you’re close to, you know, a speed wise and you can follow them around the course and you, you kind of start building this, You know, your own little group that you play with all the time.

And now, for me, I mean, to go to an event where I don’t know anyone is kind of a foreign concept. But, as far as our instructors go, I mean, I’ll even say during the instructor meeting, you know, if your student asks about events, tell them about track days. Tell them about NASA events, hooked on driving, chin events, and what you think of those events.

How much track time the students get per dollar. That was what was important to me back in the day is, you know, I’m [00:13:00] forking out, you know, 350 bucks. How much time do I get on track? That was a big, you know, deciding factor for me.

Crew Chief Eric: So how much time on average does a student get at an SCCA event for their dollar?

Joe Obernberger: So it’s different per run group. So our novice students get four 25 minute sessions. Intermediate gets some additional time. I think they get 120 minutes total per day and advanced gets like 130 minutes per day. So it’s a significant amount of track time and I think that was one of the changes that as Barron pointed out that we made early on, you know, we A lot of the instructors instructed with all these other organizations, and we looked at how much track dime per dollar do they get with each of these clubs.

Crew Chief Eric: You made a very good point, and a lot of people see racing at the track as equivalent to, let’s say, golfing or skeet shooting or flying planes or boats. And in reality, it’s not that expensive, and since you were talking about numbers, and It’s 6 per [00:14:00] minute based on the numbers you gave me for, for a novice student and versus an Ottercross.

And I know it’s huge in SCCA, but it comes out to 17 a minute at an Ottercross. So value for money, track is worth it.

Travis Dixon: And I always like to point out when people compare the two that if you come out to a track event, we have toilets of flush.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve got that going for us. And you’re not obligated to work either.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Once in a while you

Baron Mills: get the drag racer that shows up and he gets three laps in and it’s more track time than he’s got in the last three. Three race events. And he’s, you know, very, very happy about it. Oh, absolutely.

Travis Dixon: That was a challenge when we started time trials actually was we sort of tried to cross market and involve the hill climb community, you know, some of those folks like, like, I think Blue Ridge region runs on Jefferson a lot.

Do they have a lot like, like a more moral day or labor day event every year? I think I can’t remember which of what it is or whatever, but there’s a lot of cars out there. They’re [00:15:00] really neat race cars. You know, they’re, these are open wheel cars and some really neat stuff, but they’re designed to run.

Like an autocross car that they’ll go out and do three laps and that’s it. They have to come in at that point in time. They’re not designed to do that, which led to some interesting evolution and changes over time with our time trials. Bram, we started out doing that, doing like three lap time trials with, you know, one car at a time kind of thing before evolving to the current format.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. I mean, and not to diverge too far off, cause I am a trialer. I’ve trialed with you guys and Emrah and some other groups and I’m a nine, nine lap maximum. Three warm, three hot, three cold. That’s it. And I come in, whether, I don’t use the whole session because I figure if I can’t do it in nine laps, I shouldn’t be out there.

But, uh, that’s, that’s aside the point. A lot of buzz in the last couple of years around an SCCA construct known as Track Night in America. And what I’m wondering is, is this a gateway? So I’ve never been to

Baron Mills: one, but we have had several students that have come from Track [00:16:00] Night in America that enjoyed, right?

That, that loved to be able to get to a track, you know, spend a couple hours there. It’s, it’s inexpensive way to get onto a track. They enjoyed it. And when they came to an HPDE, they understood, they very clearly understood the difference, you know, capital E for us, right? The education part, very much more interested in being very clear in the education part.

For the HPD portion

Travis Dixon: track night. America actually started as a push forward from the autocross side into other faster things on track and such. So it was a little different mentality. The track night part came from from their their concept of coming in and doing track events middle of the week in the afternoon.

Bug out of work at lunchtime, head to the track, and spend the afternoon. And they actually had a, you know, more autocross type setup. I don’t know if they still do or not, but where you, you could work and run within the same day, flag a, flag a session, run a session kind of thing. By [00:17:00] doing midweek, they were able to keep track.

Cost pretty low. They got some really great deals with tracks and it was a good taste for people that didn’t want to commit three, four, 500 bucks to a weekend at the racetrack to do it. They wanted more of that taste of, of, of go out and spend, you know, a hundred or 200 bucks program differences is that they have almost, uh, I don’t think they’ve ever done in car instruction.

Their model has always been to do track side instruction. They have driver coaches, which are looking and observing. That behavior and making adjustments in between sessions more than anything. And whereas we were taking it more to it, to a direct feedback model with having people in the right seat and offering that, that direct feedback and, and, and coaching that goes beyond what you can see from, from standing on a corner, watching a cargo.

Yeah. We call that the

Crew Chief Eric: send it system.

Travis Dixon: Nothing wrong with it. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s different ways to get the job done and, and, and everybody’s going to find a, find an event that works for them, you know, between what they can, what they [00:18:00] want to spend, what kind of feedback they want and what they’re willing to tolerate from, from an event organizer, you know, as far as structure and, and time on track and, and everything else.

Joe Obernberger: I’ll echo Baron a little bit. I’ve never been to a track night in America and here I’ve been saying all along. We, we go to all these different events and we take the best of all of them, and, and none of us here have been to a, to a Trackman America event. I think that’s primarily because of the, the lack of instruction.

For me, looking back, you know, my first track day, the things that you learn, you know, keeping your eyes up, taking in the whole scene, being smooth on the controls. is very hard to teach without someone in the right seat. A concern of mine, I guess, is that you get folks that are going through track nine America, they’re just dropping the seat, going on track and driving.

They might be developing habits that that are hard to unlearn when you really want to start going fast, learning the right line. Learning the techniques, I think, would be an issue, but again, never [00:19:00] been.

Baron Mills: It’s a cheap way to get a couple hours on track, right? PDE is more of a money and time commitment.

There’s no doubt about that. I think it’s more than pays for itself in the type and quality of instruction that you get at an HPD.

Crew Chief Eric: But let’s set expectations here, right? Because I’m still playing the part of our listener who’s sitting on the couch kind of going, Eh, well, okay. It seems cheap compared to autocross compared to drag racing.

If I look at it at, at dollars per minute, right. Or dollars per lap, but there’s still a fear factor here, right. And there’s still maybe, do I have the right car question? So let’s try to answer some of those. Let’s, let’s talk about safety a little bit, but let’s also, let’s set expectations and say, what is it you really need to come out to have a good time at a DE the simplest approach, right.

Baron Mills: Is, you know, we have, we have people showing up. And literally in station wagons right in modern like a BMW station wagon that is fully stock been looked over real [00:20:00] well mechanically and that’s it look the first time you’re on track you’re not pushing the car you’re pushing yourself. And that’s, that’s really, really key.

The thing that you really have to worry about at the track is the person driving the car, not the car, especially the first three or four events. So you can go off from there, right? You can get it all kinds of detail of what you really need to do to the car. We have a tech sheet that, that you check off.

It gives you a list of things to review. They’ll look at the car.

Travis Dixon: The lowest barrier to entry. Where we would draw the line was you need to at least bring your own helmet. You know, we, we, we sort of tried to try to put something in of, you know, at least get them committed at that level. And, you know, honestly, we, we’ve always had it in there that, you know, you can go to OG racing and rent a helmet.

If that’s where it’s at, that’s where you want to be. We actually have a set of loaner helmets we use for giving rides and such in non COVID 19, uh, seasons. Love to take somebody who hasn’t been on a track before and put them in a car with an instructor and let them go and see what the track is like. So I have some really good videos somewhere.

We stuck a brand new [00:21:00] person in the right seat of a factory five Cobra and I stuck a GoPro in front of him looking back at him. And you know, you can just see the Fun and terror in their eyes all at the same time. It’s glorious

Baron Mills: That’s a really good point, right? I mean if somebody has a question about whether or not they should come out and pay the money Come out and visit us right just come out and hang out for a half a day or drop by The people there are very very friendly.

You can walk up to Anybody and ask a question and you’ll get help. And we’re very, very inclusive relative to visitors and new people. So it’s a really, it’s really good environment for that

Joe Obernberger: as far as the cars themselves go. I mean, I would say pre 1990 ish. Yeah. If your car is pre 1990, you know, there, there’s going to be some things that you’ll want to do.

But Modern cars today are, are so rock solid. You know, we’ve taken a rental Ford Fiesta, put five guys in it and just beat the hell out of it on the track. And [00:22:00] It’s fine. You know, yeah, the brakes are a little bit hot, but it, you know, they, they don’t break. They don’t overheat. They, you know, modern cars are really, really good.

I mean, and Barron mentioned, you know, the track day prep tech sheet, check your pads, check your brake fluid, you know, tires, coolant, oil, transmission, differential fluid, lug nuts, you know, wheel studs, uh, you know, wheel bearings, that sort of thing, you know, check those things over. But we also have a tech crew on site, you know, to help out with those sorts of things.

Travis Dixon: We’ve tried to make sure that the rules are written in a way that that’s inclusive, wherever, wherever reasonable. For, for obvious reasons, you know, we can’t put your average, you know, wallowing SUV out there. It just doesn’t make sense. But we took pains in creating the, the rule set to allow for those, the, the sport truck and sport SUV kind of thing.

You know, we’ve had Ford Lightnings out there on You know, a 30 series tire looks like the whole thing is lowered and it goes out there and starts passing Porsches and such. It’s, it’s, [00:23:00] it’s hilarious. You know, I, we, we literally just had a conversation with a guy came out at our previous event, flagged for us, had a blast, wants to come out and run again.

He’s building an S10 extreme, you know, with a cage and everything lowered. And I’ve seen those autocross before. And I know that they’re actually reasonable. You know, that’s a little crazy, even the grand scheme of things. But from, from that, yeah, that’s. As long as he builds it, builds it safe and the thing can, can stop and, and, and not, uh, be a danger to itself and others from that standpoint.

Yeah. Let’s let, let’s see it out there.

Crew Chief Eric: I, I like the fact that you say that it didn’t need to turn, it just needs to be able to stop . Well turn eventually, but , so. Okay. I mean, that kind of leads into a question that’s probably on everybody’s mind and I think the answer probably goes without saying, but we’re gonna say it anyway.

Is it safe?

Joe Obernberger: Here’s the thing, you’ll hear folks at HPD events say driving on track is safer than driving on the street. I don’t believe that’s true, just me personally. However, [00:24:00] I mean, the speeds are higher, but you do have, you have an instructor with you in the car. You are driving the car. Things happen, of course.

As far as in SCCA goes, I mean, we have pretty good track record as far as Any, anything happening during our events and pretty rare. We have any sort of actual metal bending at an event, extremely, extremely rare that we have any metal bending events in our novice run group where we have instructors in the car.

Usually that’s. Ends up being some mechanical issue that has happened where a car goes off track and usually it goes off track and that’s it. Nothing gets bent.

Travis Dixon: Compare doing 140, 150 multiple times in a 20 minute session on the beltway. It, yeah, it’s safer to do it on the track. I guarantee that. No doubt about it.

You know, risk increases with speed. You know, it’s just. Uh, part of the game, you know, and I wouldn’t tell anybody to put their car out there that they can’t risk, you know, if that’s [00:25:00] your daily driver, I don’t want to see it, not be able to get to work on Monday morning, you know, I would feel bad about that.

I’m not going to try and short code and tell anybody that nothing can happen because things can happen through yourself and others actions or inactions, things go pear shape. It’s, it’s a fact of life. What we try and provide is a safe way to explore the limits that you can’t do on public roads.

Baron Mills: I’m going to say, you know, look, it’s a high speed sport, right?

And it’s a, it’s, it’s got some adrenaline associated with it. It’s as dangerous as the driver wants to make it right. Limited in novice, at least limited by the instructor. So you can drive at a, at a very moderate, you know, high speed with a lot of margin and have a lot of fun out there, but it is a high speed sport, nothing like racing.

It’s not demolition Derby. Like Joe said, we have a, we have a really good safety record. And by safety, meaning. any sort of not not talking about harm to a human. We’re talking about simple things like bending metal. That’s actually very rare. It’s rare. It’s rare

Joe Obernberger: again with S. C. C. A. [00:26:00] There’s this, you know, when we have the novice classroom, all the students are there together.

We’re all talking. We all get to know each other a little bit so we can say, Oh, that’s barren in the gray BMW. That’s, you know, bill in the And you have this spectrum of cars, right? Everything from, you know, uh, VW Golfs to Miatas to Corvettes to McLarens, right? So you have this whole spread, but we’re in an environment that all those cars can play well together.

They all know, you know, we all know each other. And. You build up that sense of community so that when you’re on track together, you can trust each other. That guy in front of you in the McLaren with, you know, so and so as an instructor isn’t just going to bury the brakes on the straightaway for no reason when you’re flat on the floor behind him trying to catch him.

So I think that that community builds. Uh, a way to help mitigate some of the safety

Crew Chief Eric: to borrow a phrase from Ross Bentley, right? The E and HPDE stands for [00:27:00] education and we’re going to talk about that a little bit more as we progress here in the conversation But I just wanted to bring it up because it is a question that we’re asked more often than not as coaches How dangerous is it?

How safe is it? Is it this is it that as we said everything comes motorsport, but In the HPDE world, the risk is mitigated by the fact you have a coach in the right seat. A lot of other things are taken care of, speeds are lower, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s good. But the next question that usually crops up, you know, we’ve got our, our gal or guy going, Oh man, this is really exciting.

I’ve mitigated the risk or I’ve accepted the risk. I still want to do this. I want to take my, you know, BMW 330 to the track and I want to go have fun. What happens if, you know, something were to go pear shaped, as Travis said, will my insurance company cover me? And if they don’t, where do we go from there?

Travis Dixon: Our answer to mitigating things going bad sometimes involves being perfectly willing to cut loose a risk. If somebody is not able to bring a car that’s properly [00:28:00] prepared, a driver that’s properly prepared, a mental attitude that is in line The goals of the program and the rest of the people on the track.

We’ve always been more than happy to say, look, here’s your money back. I’m sorry. You didn’t have a good time. Want to find out how you can change things to fix it? Let us know. But as an organizer, I’ve always wanted to put the safety of, of my, my instructors first and foremost, my staff, and also the other participants up there, the 300 bucks from some guy who who’s out there and thinks he knows more than everybody else is not worth it.

You know, we can refund his money. And.

Crew Chief Eric: So

Travis Dixon: I’m

Crew Chief Eric: going to ask it this way, SCCA, the parent organization can’t recommend that a driver use track insurance. We talked about track insurance on a previous episode. So our listeners are probably familiar with that. And if you’re not, please go back and check out the things I wish I knew as a new episode where we dive into that a little bit deeper.

So I’m going to ask you guys, what’s your opinion on track insurance? Should students, especially folks that have never been to the track, look into it or purchase it in your personal [00:29:00] opinion?

Joe Obernberger: So I had a buddy, he had a GT3. 60, 000 car and he would always get track day insurance. I don’t, I don’t know how much it costs per again, but so he got the insurance and he had on Shenandoah, one of the suspension arms broke and car went into the wall.

He’s fine. Car was not very rare, by the way. Very rare. That’s true. That is very rare. Track insurance covered it completely. And so it works. It’s not a scam. Anyone’s worried about that.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s in lieu of your standard insurance, which basically stops once you cross the threshold of the, of the campus itself, right?

Most people aren’t really aware of that. Although we did cover that in the previous episode. I just want to kind of point it out, reiterate that fact.

Travis Dixon: Yeah. And we’ve had, we’ve had, uh, fortunately a very, very small number, but, but a nonzero number of people that have had to exercise the, uh, the track insurance option.

And, and one of the things that, that we’re very careful of is that again, back to the whole, you know, yeah, it’s bureaucracy, but you know, we have a well defined incident [00:30:00] reporting procedure, again, tied to our event insurance, where if something more than a. bump into the tires happens. We’re going to take some notes and write up something and, and more importantly, be available to somebody if they have an oops, if they have an issue, we’ll spend time to talk with their carrier and explain to them what the event was and what it happens.

And by the way, we can provide a pretty significant amount of documentation to show that, that this was in fact a instructed educational event that they were participating in. As for, as for opinion, you know, as an organizer, even not for a couple of things there, I can’t afford to ball my car up and walk away.

I buy the event insurance.

Baron Mills: Travis said it well in an email exchange we had, and it’s, you know, whatever you bring to the track, you know, if something bad happens, that shouldn’t put you in any sort of severe financial bind. If the way you want to do that is to bring a 3, 000 Miata, That you can walk away from.

That’s great. If you’re bringing an expensive car and you’re extremely wealthy, that’s fine too, but another way to buy that ability [00:31:00] to just to walk away is to buy track and shirt.

Crew Chief Eric: The other thing, the reason we’re kind of harping on this issue here is there’s often a misconception that D E. Is racing and racing is D.

E. And I just wanted to make sure that we clarified that it’s not. And that’s why again, we’ll deep dive a little deeper into Barron’s domain. We’re talking about what is the expectation of what’s going to be learned in the classroom and things like that. But before we get into that, let’s let’s kind of dive in just a little bit into, uh, How someone goes about getting into an event, kind of crossing that gate saying, yeah, I’m going to do this.

So I know there’s some peculiarities with respect to how SCCA does their registration, things that people should be aware of, things that you guys can elaborate on.

Baron Mills: Just send me cash, cash is fine. Bitcoin, you know,

Travis Dixon: we’ve actually, uh, I think normalized things over the years. Um, like many clubs out there, we’re now using motorsport reg.

We have been for several years. And part of what we rely on there is, is that for those that aren’t aware, is that motorsport reg has [00:32:00] a back end that lets organizers share some information. So we look at, What other events somebody has done, notes that may have been left, some breadcrumbs from other clubs and organizations.

And we, and we use that to help, help guide somebody towards whether they’re in the right event to begin with, what run group they should be in, etc. There, there’s a lot of work that goes, that goes on behind the scenes between Joe. And Kim, our registrar, who, uh, Joe’s laughing at this because I think it’s understated things dimensely, but there’s an immense amount of back and forth to make sure that people get into the right run group and that they’re not stepping up unprepared, you know, we, we try and do whatever we can to help them succeed at and have a good time at

Crew Chief Eric: the event.

So one thing I will say, having used Motorsport Reg forever, and there’s very few organizations that really don’t unless they have a proprietary system. So it’s pretty common in our world to use that. The nice thing was that SCCA used the PDX moniker, so it made it very easy to just suss out the events because you’re just punching PDX and they’re the only ones that would [00:33:00] come up.

But now that you guys are using the HPD acronym, what’s the quickest way for somebody to find a WDCR event in Motorsport Reg? Go to our website and go from there, I would say. That’s fair. It’s

Travis Dixon: good to count calendars up there. The events are linked.

Baron Mills: And if you make it that far, if you go to Motorsports Reg, if you have any questions about any of this, there are emails on there.

Lynn Tolan, the program chair, and Joe’s name email is on there. And probably most importantly, Kim’s name is on there as a registrar. If anybody gets stuck in all this, just send an email and ask. Right. And we’ll answer that.

Travis Dixon: One of the things we see that’s worthwhile to mention is when people register is not being honest with themselves and others over what run group they should be in.

The common thing we’ll see is, Oh, now this is full, so I’m going to bump myself up. And we would start looking at their history and their, their driving resume, as we like to call it. We can go, Oh, you’ve done two autocrosses and some go karts. Maybe you shouldn’t be in [00:34:00] advance for this one, you know? So, but with that, that’s comes down to what, what was said earlier of.

Email us. Let us know. Say, hey, I wanted to get in, you know, I was out of town. You may not be able to talk your way into it, but we can at least do the, okay, we’re going to keep notes. If we find a spot, we’ll work on it. But we ask for driving resumes because some cases it’s, yeah, I’ve been driving forever, but not entering events like this.

It doesn’t show up in MSR, but here’s my, this, here’s my racing license. Here’s, here’s other stuff, you know, use your words, talk to us and tell us what it is. But being honest and being truthful and reasonable with what it is you’re, you’re trying to do is, is important. It’s no fun to show up and end up in, in a, in a run group that is frankly too fast for you to be in.

And you spend the day getting bumped down and having uncomfortable conversations with stewards and instructors and everybody else about maybe you should rethink your choice of hot.

Crew Chief Eric: Other sports backing, but there is the rare occurrence and all of us being coaches here, you know that you do get the one guy who his [00:35:00] whole resume is he played Gran Turismo and he’s actually quite good on track and you don’t know how that works.

So there is some natural talent out there, but we are not all Schumacher. We are not. Sorry, so we all got to start somewhere. We have all humble beginnings and it involves a coach in the right seat.

Joe Obernberger: And I will say, um, for those listening, if you’re thinking of signing up for anything, do both days. Don’t I, we do, you can sign up for just Saturday.

You can sign up for just Sunday. But you will get so much more out of it, out of your first track event if you do both a Saturday and Sunday. Um, you’ll have that Saturday night, I swear you’ll sleep amazingly well. And you’ll wake up, you’ll be back at the track ready to execute what you learned the prior day.

And, and the, the driver that you were Friday night compared to Sunday night. Will be so drastically different. You’ll be hooked. I mean, you’ll, you will be hooked, but

Travis Dixon: there’s a reason why our second day is not that much more than one day. [00:36:00] You know, it’s usually what about 100 bucks more to do to do two days in one.

And I think we put that in place because we saw the value in continuing over two days versus encouraging people to do one day or the other from a being able to bring them up to a much higher level than one day at a time. Would don’t wait. You know, we deal with a lot of people who do the Oh, I forgot to register or whatever.

We’re really permissive about dropping out. And we understand stuff happens. It helps us as organizers to know early who’s attending. We can sort out any issues we could ask you questions about. Do you really think you should be in time trials, even though you’ve only done one autocross or not, you know, if you register.

Three weeks in advance. We’ve been pushing it. I think this is one of the first we’ve done it of having basically all of our events open at once, which our registrar hates. It helped get it out of there and people can figure out their HPDE calendar early for that and know where they’re going to be and lock that in.

And again, especially with novice groups, I think all organizations have this of that’s the group that fills up first. So if you want a spot in there and to [00:37:00] get your feet wet in order to be able to move up to a group that doesn’t fill up in three days, register early. If something changes, we understand.

We’ll, we’ll deal with it.

Crew Chief Eric: See, it’s, it’s just like voting register early, register often.

Joe Obernberger: SCCA is pretty lax with giving refunds. So something happens with the car or you get sick the night before and you can’t make it. Will you just give me your money back? To Travis’s point, sign up early and, um, you know, uh, please, uh, plan on coming, uh, of course.

Um, but, you know, there’s, there’s always the option of going back if something comes up with the car or, you know, who knows what life throws at you. Um, especially now with, with COVID, you know, if you get a fever or something, please don’t come.

Crew Chief Eric: So we found our event, right. We found a DC event. We’re going through the SCCA website.

Takes us to Motorsport Reg, sign up and go. And at the bottom it says, you know, do you acknowledge download these, Subs. What’s that all about?

Baron Mills: To me, the subs [00:38:00] are simply, are very simple, right? They’re a document that has some unique characteristics or some details that aren’t easy to, to keep up, to date on the webpage or in Ms RMSR.

So they’re, they’re just another format for us to give all the detail that. The customer needs. There’s a SCCA history behind all that, and Travis probably knows all that, but that’s, that’s the big picture for the customer.

Travis Dixon: The HPD rulebook is pretty small and generic. Event supplementals have always been used to fill in the blanks that are for things that might be site specific.

I mean, you know, it includes everything from detailing into car eligibility, which, as you’re probably aware, can vary depending upon facility. If you go to other, other racetracks in other states, you may find peculiarities over, over, you know, Seatbelts or convertibles, all kinds of things like that, which sometimes are state mandated, racetrack mandated, you know, whatever.

So we detail that in there down to where can you find info on where to stay at a hotel [00:39:00] in the, if you’re coming from out of town. I mean, we try and try and use that as concise as possible. One stop shopping for how to get to the event and how to be successful at it. It’s a lot of information in one place, but it’s been whittled down over the years to hopefully just the stuff that is really going to be useful.

It’s, it’s, it’s It’s a lot of how to do

Crew Chief Eric: stuff, not don’t do this. Hope. And a shameless plug for the GTM website, it’s actually where we got our inspiration originally for our track travel guide. Having been in SCCA a long time and knowing the SUPs and what’s in there, we were like, you know, maybe we could soften this a little bit because they do read like a rule set and that’s what they’re designed to do.

To be modeled after, but it is valuable information. So I recommend if you are going to an SCC event, don’t just click next, next, next, and ignore them, read them because it is specific track information. They’re updated by the event. So if there’s, let’s say additional COVID information or participant information about wearing face coverings and how you’re going to handle class, all that stuff is going to be found in the subs.

And I tip my hat to the folks that write those for [00:40:00] every event, tailoring them to every event. every year.

Travis Dixon: And it seems like a lot of bureaucracy, but the fact that we have those subs and those subs get approved by a national organization who is the one issuing our event insurance helps lead to having events which are insurable by track time.

day insurance as well as we’ve never had a problem with anybody looking at our events. You know, the locked ins or Haggerty’s who offer track day insurance and they go, okay, that’s, that’s definitely an event that we can offer insurance on. It’s never, never been questioned for that. And part of that I think is because of having, you know, a strong basis in, in a well documented event structure includes that.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. So we’ve registered, we’ve done all these things, we’ve read the subs, we’re checking the list. There’s one last thing to do before we get to the event. Let’s talk about tech a little bit. So SCCA does tech a little differently than other organizations do. There are few out there that require you to go to legitimate or mark specific shops and get your car looked at by a specialist and things like that.

There’s other [00:41:00] organizations that don’t even bother. So what does SCCA do about tech and can you explain your tech process?

Baron Mills: Real simple, right? Don’t let it scare you. I remember the first couple of times I was scared to death of tech, right? And our, and our guys look at the checklist. Make sure your car is safe.

You know, it almost always comes down. If you’ve made a modification, that’s where things go wrong and brakes and tire, right? That’s the biggies. The good news is our tech guys always try to help you get through. They’re not there to fail you. They’re there to make you have a fun day. They’re very, very helpful.

I’ve seen those guys actually, sometimes when they have time, you know, helping people fix their car or getting an instructor to help them fix their car. That that’s the kind of things, that’s the kind of environment that, that these first timers are stepping into.

Joe Obernberger: I’ll add that as Travis mentioned, I think SCCA may be the only organization [00:42:00] that if you fail tech, We’ll give you your money back and send you on your way.

Almost every other group will happily take your money and say, sorry, you didn’t take your car and you can’t drive, but thanks for your 400 bucks.

Crew Chief Eric: If your wheel falls off after you pass tech. I mean, that’s a whole nother

Joe Obernberger: turn

Crew Chief Eric: away. If you’ve turned, turned a wheel. Yeah. You’re on your own at that point in time.

So,

Joe Obernberger: but yeah, I mean, as I mentioned it, you know, brakes and tires again, as you mentioned, also the modifications. If you’ve got a race seat and six point in driver’s seat and some like 20 year old passenger seat, the restraints have to be the same on both sides. So I think if you, if you’re really going to get serious about HPD events, you’re going to have to know some stuff.

You know, how do you, how do you check your pads? How do you check tire pressure? How do you check oil coolant? Differential fluid, trans fluid, all that stuff, you know, wheel torque and so forth.

Travis Dixon: Understanding that brake fluid is a wear item is a [00:43:00] big thing, you know, a big way to pass tech is to be able to go, is to be able to know when was the last time your brake fluid was changed, you know, was it recently, was it this year?

That’s one of the, one of the main things is, is, is fresh fluid will, will go a long way to helping have a, have a successful weekend.

Joe Obernberger: Yeah, quick story. Uh, so I had a student with a Lexus LFA, a V10, 9, 000 RPM, awesome car, 5, 000 miles. But it was a 2004, never had the brake fluid changed, but Hey, it’s only 5, 000 miles.

Why would you change the brake? So it’s nice to say the brakes traded car’s fine. Everyone’s fine. Nothing happened. We didn’t go off track even, but you know, push the pedal and it’s getting a little bit soft. Travis said it’s a wear item.

Crew Chief Eric: The marketing pamphlets these days say lifetime fluids, right?

Travis Dixon: Yeah, right.

That’s true. Whose, whose lifetime?

Crew Chief Eric: At the track, it’s in dog years, unfortunately. That being said, so we’ve gone through tech, we’ve done all these things. We’re there now at the track. So let’s focus on [00:44:00] the education part. Let’s really level set. And I know this is Baron’s sweet spot. Let’s talk about the classroom.

What? Are new drivers going to learn during their first track day or their first track weekend?

Baron Mills: It’s really pretty simple, right? So the track is a new environment, and you put anybody into a new environment and add speed. And it causes stress. The novice classrooms are all about managing that and instructing as much as possible the students so they can become more familiar and comfortable with the environment and manage that stress.

You know, the other half of that story is communications with the instructor, what it’s going to be like on track and how to manage that relationship with the but it really is all of the safety guidance of Communication how the track communicates with the driver and how other drivers communicate with you and passing [00:45:00] rules.

It’s just critical stuff is is one or two pages of things that if you get right, you’ll be absolutely fine.

Crew Chief Eric: So Baron, you said that the The track talks to you. Do you hear voices that the rest of us don’t?

Baron Mills: Yes, I do. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, one of the phrases we say, and we have communications from car to car, we have communications from, from driver to instructor, and we have communications from the track to the car.

And the way that happens on track is through flags. through visual communication from people that are stationary around the track, giving the drivers information and direction on what to do on the track. The classic was the checkered flag, white flag, the red flag, et cetera, that you see on TV.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s only one flag I remember.

It’s the blue flag. And if I remember correctly, Baron, it means there’s a race going on and you’re not in it.

Joe Obernberger: Exactly. For the novice classroom, I think the key things to take away that we [00:46:00] Try to drill into the novice students is, one, listen to your instructor. That’s probably the biggest takeaway from the novice classroom.

And that you, as the novice student, are responsible for driving the vehicle. That is your main goal during the day, is driving the vehicle. The instructor is responsible for what happens outside the vehicle. The cars around it, the flags, what corner’s coming up. But they can’t control the vehicle. That, that is the student’s job.

And then as Bear mentioned, the flags, what the flags mean. But even that, I mean, I, honestly, I don’t know how many novice classrooms I went through before I even knew what all the flags were. So, your instructor is going to help you with the flags. So, in the novice class, we’re going to tell you what the flags are.

Those are what a yellow flag is. But then, when you’re out on track, And you see a yellow flag, I guarantee your instructor is going to tell you what that yellow flag means. Um, and then of course the passing rules.

Travis Dixon: The instruction actually starts at the, at the all hands meeting first thing in the morning.

Of reminding people, we’re not getting the details of, of how [00:47:00] to go out and drive. But, you know, the little things that they may, people may not have internalized yet, or maybe site specific or whatever. Like if something happens, stay in the car with the belts on, you know, don’t get out and go out and try and fix it.

You know, we have emergency staff there who are well trained professionals. If your buddy’s car, you know, goes off and hits the wall, you’re not going to make it any better by stopping and trying to help. You know, we can get it, get an ambulance and a fire truck on any point that any of those tracks within about 90 seconds.

Um, not that

Joe Obernberger: that happens a lot,

Travis Dixon: not

Joe Obernberger: that

Travis Dixon: that happens a lot. So please do that. You know, if your car stops, you pull off, stay belted in. It’s the safest point for that. And that’s something that anybody, no matter how many track days they’ve done, doesn’t hurt to remind them of that in the morning, that that’s what they should do.

Baron Mills: We’re very much about, you know, A lot of, some people call it continuing education. We have three run groups, novice, intermediate and advanced, and we have instruction available for all of those. We, a lot of organizations [00:48:00] do not do classroom instruction for advanced, for example, and we do, it’s optional for advanced, our intermediate, uh, has instruction classroom instruction.

Also, we have the novice, you know, the instruction there happens in class and in the car with the instructor. And as you move up, you make more assumptions about what That customer can do. You assume that they know all the flags and all the basic safety operations in the intermediate run group, but you very quickly start teaching car control, car dynamics, how to improve drills.

And as you get to an advanced group, those discussions become even more advanced. I think sec is really, really good at that. And, and part of that is enabled by, you know, our, our, uh, our advanced room instructor is a current race car driver. I teach intermediate right now, but the person that helps me is a race car driver.

Active race car driver holds one of the lap records. So I think, I think we do a really, really good job there. That’s, that’s what we hear back from the, from the [00:49:00] customers anyway.

Joe Obernberger: So we, uh, We have three classroom instructors that all have, as Barron mentioned, that bring unique things to the table. So we have David Miller, our novice classroom baron, and Bill Smith is our advanced classroom instructor.

And one thing that we’ve been doing recently because of COVID is having some online classrooms. And that might be something that we keep. What has come out of that is that students can pay a little more attention at an online classroom, um, When there’s not the, the, you know, cars going by outside, you know, they’re like excited, like, all right, I’m going to go wide open throttle, third gear, 5, 000 RPM, that’s my goal.

Um, so with, without that involved, I think there’s, you know, learning the flags and things like that. May come a little bit easier, but you know, we’re all still playing the code game still to figure out what’s going on there.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, and I think we’re always fighting in my best Ricky Bobby impersonation. The I want to go fast mentality that people come to the track and immediately expect that [00:50:00] speed is the First thing that we talk about.

And so I think what you guys have hit on is good is that safety always comes first, safety is paramount and the speed comes later. That’s even as coaches were always instructed, you know, the, the flow of teaching is speed is always last. You always add it as the last thing in the cycle.

Joe Obernberger: Well, so I, when I, when I was a student, uh, my first track day, what I wanted to see is how fast can I go on straightaway?

That was my goal is and I better believe I was staring at that speedometer going on the straightaway not worried about anything else is going on just just like what is that needle going to read before my instructor tells me to break

Crew Chief Eric: that actually changed Joe.

Joe Obernberger: Fair enough. So

Crew Chief Eric: I think you guys have set a really good expectation for the students. It’s an environment to foster learning, right? And it’s a progression. You’re not going to learn everything in one day. It’s going to be multiple over multiple [00:51:00] sessions. You guys average probably one to one on, or maybe it’s N minus one number of sessions in classroom as you are on track every day.

So it’s, it’s repetitive, but that repetition is what cements it in there. And then the coach augments. What is being learned in the classroom

Baron Mills: to kind of back up and just summarize real quick, right? You come in as novice you have an instructor in the car. We give check rides to move to intermediate An instructor will give that checkride and move that person to intermediate, and then they are soloed in SCCA.

They still have the ability to, they still have a classroom, and they still have the ability to ask for an instructor. I still learn things when Joe gets in the car with me, how not to drive, you know, things like that. And then the next progression is, of course, advanced. We do the same thing. We do a checkride to go up to advanced.

Crew Chief Eric: Really, the next segment that we wanted to talk about, which is what are other things that SCCA HPDE offers and one of those being coaching. [00:52:00] So what are some next steps post I’ve done my track days, I’ve moved up through the system. Where should I go from here? Do I just go to another group or do I find another discipline?

Joe Obernberger: Well, I think one is the Instructor Clinic. Uh, haha. Bear and I actually have been working quite a bit on how we should run the Instructor Clinic changes that we can make to it. We’ve gone through Friday at the Track has a way of bringing their instructors on and we’re taking ideas from them, as Travis mentioned.

You know, we all go with lots of other clubs, see what their clinics look like, and try to bring the best of all worlds into what we do. It’s a volunteer organization, and we send slide decks around constantly to each other, and criticize each other, and try to make these programs better. That not only goes for the instructor clinic, but also novice, intermediate, and advanced classrooms.

The cool thing about the instructor clinic, we put the candidate in the right seat. So they are expected to instruct for at least, I think we do four sessions, and then we do classrooms between them, and we have a pretty [00:53:00] detailed document that Baron primarily put together. That we send out every event to all the instructors, what we expect, all the things that we do with driving evals after events where students evaluate their instructors.

And of course, instructors evaluate their students. That really has, I think, been extremely beneficial to the program in helping all the instructors become much better at listening, at setting goals, helping their students. Be faster. So that’s 11 area. And

Travis Dixon: so it might be. It might be a good, good, good thing to point out that one of the things that we’ve done for for a number of years now is an instructor clinic, and that’s where we’ve been able to more tightly integrate what happens in the right seat on track with what happens in the hard plastic seat in the classroom.

Overtaking and trying to make, make a unified program. Not just saying, Hey, you instruct, come on out and play with us. Go out and do whatever it is you do because you’re fast and that’s okay. We try and do train to trainer stuff and have done those typically on a free to the [00:54:00] instructor basis for a while as a, an expense to us, but worth it to build the program.

over being able to bring in, get people up, and teach in a way that is compatible and the way that we think should be done. It goes both ways for us, I think, is, is that those instructor clinics tend to be where we also get feedback from other, from instructors and do the, Hey, we do this this way here.

Maybe we should try this and we’ll go, Yeah, that’s a good idea. Let’s, let’s give it a shot.

Crew Chief Eric: And it’s also a recognized Program. It’s a recognized certificate. Let’s call it that where there’s reciprocity with other groups to say you’ve been through SCCA’s bootcamp. We’ll recognize you as an instructor.

It’s not always a rubber stamp. Sometimes it does take, you know, uh, Hey, call Joe and he’ll sign you off. And I know we’re talking a little bit more on the coaching side, but I’ve had the, the distinct privilege of being to the school many, many times. I come back now as a veteran instructor, but I came up through that system.

I got certified through SCCA and, and the, Teaching that I got through there is, in my opinion, second to none. So I know we’re kind of branching away from the student [00:55:00] here a little bit.

Baron Mills: Let me add one thing to that, that last discussion, you know, started talking about the instructor aspect of that. And Joe really championed a couple of years ago, uh, giving our, each of our instructors only one student.

That shows on the student side too. I have instructed for organizations where I’ve had three students, All in the same day, and you know, you make it work, but the student doesn’t get as much quality time as with, you know, the other extreme where that student has one instructor and that instructor’s job is to make that student happy for the whole weekend.

So it works both ways. The instructors are happy having one student and the students are happy having one, you know, knowing that their instructor is fully committed to them.

Crew Chief Eric: So a couple other things I have on my list as extracurricular activities could include flagging.

Travis Dixon: We’ve always done a work, something, get something arrangement.

We do try and use volunteer flaggers wherever possible. SCCA has always tried to avoid paying flaggers because you sort of get what you pay for [00:56:00] inversely a lot of times. Um, yeah. So the people out there volunteering to stand, take it very seriously and do it very well. Almost to the point of amusement at times, but the outcome is that we get people that are very attentive and very interested in that.

Trying to reduce the friction to attend our events though, we’ve opened up opportunities to say, Hey, come out and flag a day or two with us and you’ve earned yourself a free track day. You can’t really beat that. I mean, You know, a little sweat equity and, and get, get to see the track. Uh, and by the way, we feed, feed, feed you lunch and dinner usually, uh, in normal, in normal years, at least.

You get to wear that really, really stylish white. The, uh, yeah, exactly. So the, uh, the, the, the shirts came about as advertising, you know, we, we started out because the rule said you had to have long sleeve. Cotton t shirts or whatever you couldn’t wear nylon or short sleeves and such. And, and so we said, well, let’s print up some long sleeve cotton t shirts and hand them out and they turned into advertising, uh, there’s [00:57:00] something cool about walking around the grid at the Daytona, you know, Rolex 24 and seeing some random person with a PDX shirt on,

Crew Chief Eric: is there anything else you guys want to add to that as to things you can do after,

Joe Obernberger: of course, SCCA is a race organization, so there’s time trials to move toward and also competition.

Baron Mills: In our organization, once you’re signed off for advanced, you can run in TT. We do not, we, WDCR does not have a separate TT license. It’s, it’s, once you’re signed off for advanced, you’re in TT. Yeah, and then TT is, it’s the competitive part of this, right? The HPDE, you’ve moved past HPDE and moved into a competitive part of the SCCA ecosystem, so to speak.

And then

Travis Dixon: there’s, there’s actually a national component to that now, uh, there’s a team time trials nationals group that, that has started coming up with some consistent rule sets and running sort of a national series of events. And as that has come and matured, we’ve actually been adopting rule sets from them.

So there’s consistency and, and trying to [00:58:00] integrate, integrate with what they’re doing. And some of that’s partnership with, with things like grid life as well of, of national has done that. And, and we’re, we’re, we’re trying to. Trying to come up with a program and have a program that is unique, but not so unique that, that, that nobody wants to come and run it because it’s car prep or whatever is different again, back to the top of the order of people book events because of what fits their calendar.

A lot of times, you know, let’s, let’s do a good event that they can go. Yep. My car fits that let’s come and come, come and have fun with these guys because I have off that weekend.

Baron Mills: I just add again, it’s, it’s a completely volunteer organization. And as you move up and as you become more experienced or more familiar with it, basically.

Anything is available. If, you know, if you’re interested in doing tech, we’ll get, we’ll figure out a way to have you help the tech guys. If you’re interested in flagging, if you’re interested in registration, any of those areas, we’re, you know, we’re, we’re open for that discussion.

Travis Dixon: It’s taken a few years to get there, but the SCCA race programs are now starting to look at HPDE experience [00:59:00] as a precursor to going racing.

It’s been sort of a weird thing that for the longest time, SCCA didn’t have a progression from non competition to competition, you know, wheel to wheel competition. And that’s actually changing. And we do a lot of close work with our, with our region race school for things for a long time. And we probably still do once this world returns to normal of we try and schedule and usually offer a discount of if you do the, the early, HPD event before going to race school, you start to take a lot of money off the end of your bill.

And it’s, it’s really designed to get people on the track. Prior to that, there were people showing up for race school that had never been on a racetrack before. And we saw that as a, Hey, we can help fix this guy’s talk to us and we’ll work together and make it more fun for everybody.

Joe Obernberger: And the people are there.

So when you go to an HPD event and you want to do racing. Or do time trials, they’re all there to answer your questions that the people that do it. And I think Travis hit on a really good point. The volunteer part of the organization, [01:00:00] there is motivation. I mean, the people that are volunteering are doing it because they really are passionate about making a good program.

And the amount of time that Barron, David Miller, And crew put into the classroom content is huge, you know, if we had to pay them It’d be awful But so there’s really a big effort that the volunteer people have put into this program and I think it really shows

Crew Chief Eric: All right anything else guys before we wrap it up?

Joe Obernberger: Just say a little something about high performance driving events in general. I like driving I like to drive fast and I like cars. I like the people the technology You Pretty much everything involved with HPDE. So burning fuel, running through tires, burning through brakes. I like the physics involved with it.

One thing that I’ve noticed is we seem to get a lot of engineering minds at HPD events, and I think one of the reasons for that is because it is kind [01:01:00] of Science personified in some ways. I say this to Baron all the time. One half mv squared, you know, we’re calling us down the straightaway going 120. We got to convert all that energy, all that kinetic energy back into heat.

And I think that mindset really plays into who attends the events and it. The other thing I like about it is the whole engineering tradeoffs. You know, everything’s a tradeoff with, with this, you know, and not only with just with the cars in general, but in driving, driving the course, you know, you can take the shortest path through and go slow, but drive a shorter distance or, you know, drive longer path, but your speed is higher and you need to find that correct balance for every corner and every car.

I think one of the great things about SCCA is the paths they provide for moving forward. Now, obviously there’s a path to moving towards racing. For me personally, that’s not something I was really interested in. I was all about instruction. I wanted, you know, I got in the car with some guy, some poor fellow in the right seat.

And I was like, wow, [01:02:00] this guy’s job is the best. I want to do what he does. And SCCA provides a nice path forward.

Baron Mills: I just want to, I want to quickly bullet list or really just run through, you know, at speed, the things I believe that SCCA What differentiates SCCA from the other HPD programs? One on one instruction, right?

One instructor per student. It’s a volunteer organization. We believe that allows us to create very competitive pricing and time, amount of time per dollar. Some of the best classrooms that are available, and I’m not speaking even for myself, you know, the novice classroom and the advanced classroom. The fact that we’re part of a race organization, that knowledge of all those things, like.

Car dynamics and safety and driving the car and mindset. All those things we leverage heavily in, in the HPD program ability to cancel registration late. Some organizations you commit one week out and you may, you might get a 50 [01:03:00] percent refund. We’re at, uh, we’re most of our track days are at, uh, summit point.

They have three tracks. All three tracks are just fantastic. Right. Maine is just a really, really great track. But the other two tracks are fun too. We have track days at those two

Travis Dixon: again, on, on on the club perspective o of we we’re, we’re in an organization run that, that runs events by its members. So when somebody says, Hey, I, I think I can do a better job at something here, let, let me help.

We go, okay, come on in and help. We don’t get hurt. Don’t get feelings hurt by somebody, uh, who has a better idea. You know? So we, we. We take feedback, we truly listen to it and try and incorporate that. And, and that’s been the evolution of the program since day one of, of, of listen to it, to our customers, listen to our instructors, listen to people that have been there beforehand and know better and have seen things and, and are willing to

Crew Chief Eric: share.

And on that note, gentlemen, I cannot thank you enough for coming on the show tonight. It’s been super informative and I’m sure our listeners now have a better perception of what SCCA is all about and why they should come out and [01:04:00] try an event. There’s a lot of really good information on WDCR’s website.

I think you guys probably have the most thorough documentation when it comes to being prepared and how the driver should be prepared and the car should be prepared. There’s a lot of information there and check it out because they’ve done a really good job of being very thorough with the information.

Now for the listeners out there, you can find more details on everything we’ve talked about either GTM website and looking at the followup article that goes with this episode or by visiting www dot. Wdcr do org slash hpde or following Wdcr on Instagram at wdcr cca or looking up w dcr SCCA on Facebook.

I think that’s everything. More than enough . Very good. Again, I cannot thank you guys enough for coming on the show, and I appreciate, uh, everything, all the knowledge you passed on, and hopefully we’ll have you back again soon. Thanks, Eric.

Baron Mills: Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Eric.[01:05:00]

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from GTM? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going so that we can continue to record and Write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content.

So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can [01:06:00] help.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Gran Touring Motorsports
00:22 Meet the Hosts and Guests
01:12 History of SCCA HPDE Program
02:07 Evolution and Current State of HPDE
03:56 Unique Aspects of SCCA HPDE
15:42 Track Night in America and HPDE Differences
23:49 Safety and Insurance Considerations
31:22 How to Get Started with SCCA HPDE
33:36 Honesty in Run Group Selection
35:16 Importance of Two-Day Events
36:17 Early Registration Benefits
37:58 Understanding Event Supplementals
40:45 SCCA Tech Inspection Process
43:59 Novice Classroom Insights
47:47 Progression Through Run Groups
52:11 Instructor Clinics and Coaching
55:43 Extracurricular Activities and Volunteering
56:53 Pathways Beyond HPDE
01:00:29 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

From Miatas to McLarens, the paddock is a melting pot. You’ll find folks sleeping in their cars and others rolling in with RVs and pit crews. What unites them is a love for driving and a respect for the community.

Track Night vs. HPDE: What’s the Difference?

SCCA’s Track Night in America offers a low-cost, midweek taste of track life—great for dipping your toes in. But HPDE is where the education happens. With in-car instruction and structured feedback, HPDE helps drivers build safe, effective habits from day one.

What Do You Need to Get Started?

Not much. A modern, well-maintained car and a helmet are enough to begin. WDCR provides tech sheets and on-site inspections to ensure safety. Loaner helmets are available, and visitors are always welcome to drop by and learn more.

Even unconventional builds – like sport trucks or lowered SUVs – can qualify if they meet safety standards. The emphasis is on driver development, not horsepower.

Is It Safe?

Statistically, yes. WDCR has an excellent safety record, especially in novice groups with instructors onboard. While motorsports always carry risk, HPDE minimizes it through coaching, structure, and community accountability.

Why Choose WDCR SCCA HPDE?

If you’re looking for a track experience that blends adrenaline with education, WDCR HPDE is hard to beat. It’s not just about driving fast – it’s about driving smart, building friendships, and growing as a motorsports enthusiast.

So whether you’re a curious newcomer or a seasoned Autocrosser ready to level up, come check out a WDCR HPDE event. You might just find your new favorite way to spend a weekend.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Latton Lads & the cursed MINI: A Motorsports Saga of Fire, Flood, and Brotherhood

Break/Fix Podcast

Gran T

August 25, 2020

Latton Lads & the cursed MINI: A Motorsports Saga of Fire, Flood, and Brotherhood

In the world of grassroots motorsports, few stories are as outrageous, heartfelt, and downright biblical as that of John and Steve Wade – better known to their racing family as the Latton Lads. From humble beginnings in Essex to flaming Minis at Watkins Glen, their journey is a masterclass in resilience, camaraderie, and the joy of chasing speed.

John’s motorsports origin story begins in England, with a misfiring 1956 Austin and a magneto that sent his brother Les flying across the driveway. “We were bloody broke,” John recalls. “So we had to learn to fix cars because we couldn’t afford to pay anyone else.”

Steve, meanwhile, got John hooked on racing by gifting him a Richard Petty driving experience for his 50th birthday. One lap was all it took. “That grin never washed off,” John said. “But my wallet got a lot lighter.”

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

The nickname “Latton Lads” harks back to their school in Harlow, Essex – Latton Bush – built atop a Roman settlement. The school’s symbol? A griffin. The legacy? A blend of mischief and mythology that perfectly suits the Wade brothers’ racing persona.

Spotlight

Meet brothers Steve Wade (MINI, left) & John Wade (Focus SVT, right)

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Gran Touring Motorsports
00:22 Meet the Wade Brothers
00:51 Early Motorsports Adventures
04:08 The Origin of the Latin Lads
09:33 John’s Car Collection
22:36 Steve’s Journey with Minis
28:46 The Bear Incident
33:41 Racing at Watkins Glen
36:42 High-Speed Mini Adventures
37:01 The Talking Car
37:32 Power Steering Woes
38:27 Black Flags and Fire
38:49 Emergency Response
41:19 The Aftermath
44:28 Another Day at Shenny
51:19 Flooded Mini
56:09 The Bee Invasion
58:22 Planning the Next Mini
01:01:54 Advice for New Racers
01:11:27 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Transcript

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everyone, Crew Chief Eric here, and this week I get the pleasure to introduce you to two of our members. The plucky Brits, the Latin lads, but better known to most of us as brothers, John and Steve Wade. John hails from our Southern states region and Steve from the DMV. We’re really excited to have them on the show tonight and know you’ll really enjoy what comes next.

And with that, welcome to break fix. Gentlemen, so many stories, so many laughs, all revolving around the two of you. So let’s start off with how you got into motorsport and probably explain the whole Latin lads.

John Wade: I can tell you, I can [00:01:00] explain the motorsports bit. Really easily. And Steve will actually tell you the truth.

But the way it all started was because we were bloody broke. So we had to get into repairing cars because we couldn’t afford any sort of pay for it. So, a little story goes along with that. One of my very early experiences with Elder Brother, there’s actually three of us. Les. Yeah. . So Les bought an old Austin, 19 56, 57 Austin, while we lived in England.

Well, this car had a magneto and it was misfiring quite badly. So I’m little, I’m about, I know, 7, 8, 9 years old, something like that. And so Les is trying to figure out why this car is misfiring and what run He close under the bonnet and he, he said, me sit in the driver’s seat. Yeah. Now it’s got a key, like, like an ordinary American car.

So I’m sitting in the driver’s seat. And it’s also, by the way, an automatic, which is very important, because I did not actually run him over, which surprised me. So, I’m sitting in the driver’s seat. Les, all I can see is his buttocks sticking up from underneath the bonnet. And he’s like, Alright, John! [00:02:00] Yeah, I’m alright.

No, turn it over! Cha cha cha! Oh, sod it! Fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, couple of wrenches, some very foul words. Do it again. Chaka chaka chaka chaka chaka naffle. So what he has apparently done, at this point in time, is pulled a spark plug out. You remember this, didn’t you, Steve, eh? Oh yeah, oh yeah. It’s shocking, literally.

So, Les has pulled the spark plug out. Now you and I would ground the spark plug to the block. Well, it doesn’t really matter anyway, because it’s a magnet, isn’t it? So he says, crank it. So I turn the key and all I see is his head up over the hood and out he goes about ten foot on the other side of the car.

What he was doing was hanging onto the spark plug wire, the magneto turn, 20, 000 volt shock right up the elbow. Bang! It shot him about six, seven feet past the car. And he gets up and he goes, that’s alright, that’s working, mate. And that’s how I got started in motors as a littler. Is trying to figure out how to fix the things because [00:03:00] we were completely and utterly broke.

Now, the motorsports bit, brother Steve here, is actually completely to blame for an enormous expense in my life, and I’ll let him tell you how it came about.

Steve Wade: It what? Yep, that’s true. Yeah, I started in motorsports in the States at least in 2000 and something, just doing pro solo and all. That was when I was much younger and I had long hair and it was darker than it is now.

But anyway, John was turning 50 or something like that, I don’t know what age it was. I thought to myself, you know, this Motorsports stuff is quite fun. Uh, my wife and I bought him a Richard Petty race thing at Atlanta Motorsports Park which is his 50th birthday present. So we go down there, him, Carolyn and me and we go to Atlanta Motorsports Park and he’s never done any of this stuff before at least on a track, he’s done other stuff on a track.

So, you know, I get in the car and he gets in the car, he gets in the car, he goes around and around and comes out again, he gets out the car I get in the car, as I’m getting in the car he grabs me by the shoulder, yanks my head back And the top of his head fell [00:04:00] off with a smile that was so broad. I said, that’s it, it’s gonna cost you millions, mate.

You’re in, you’re done, the adrenaline’s going, you’re totally hooked. And that was the beginning of Latin Lads. And I’ll hand it back to John, tell you why we’re called Latin Lads. Oh,

John Wade: Latin Lads, yeah. And by the way, yeah, I still haven’t got rid of the case of permagrin. It doesn’t wash off, by the way. Yeah, but you have got to get rid of the money, that’s for sure.

Yeah, no problem. The wallet’s a lot lighter. I mean, I want to introduce you to my main sponsor, you know, Hip Pocket Racing. I’ve got a backup sponsor, Mr. Card. Those guys have been so good to me ever since I started. Oh, the Latin lads, yeah. So, Steve and I were born fairly close to each other in two neighbouring towns, but we grew up in the same little town called Harlow in Essex.

Well, Harlow has been there since Roman times. It’s a shit hole now, but it was alright back in them days. Uh, you know, we had the old centurions and the spears. We remember that, it’s no problem. One region [00:05:00] of the town itself was called Latinium or Latin. In the middle of what used to be a nice Roman settlement, they built our bloody school, didn’t they?

Well, it’s bad, because it was one of those 60s blocks, you know. All it was, was essentially a rectangular cube, plunked. With holes in it, and you wouldn’t sit down, somebody yapped for a day, and then you left. That was it. So, in this lovely Roman villa, they plunked our school. The school was called Latin Bush.

How about it, yeah? So, the Latin Lads is a bit of alliteration of that part of Roman and British history. So, it goes back, what, about 3, 000 years or so. So, the name’s great. The place is a dog bath. But, you know, the name’s alright. It’s Swiss, isn’t it? Because no sod knows. You know, they go, Oh, Latin Lads, what’s that all about?

Well, Lads in England. Is a, a bit of a, uh, a bit of a sly compliment. A lad is somebody’s a good boy, he’s a good boy, you know, goes for the eyeballs. But, he’s a bit of a miscreant, you know what I mean? He’s always out doing [00:06:00] that. Well, that fits us perfectly well. Now the griffin, mythical beast, ancient Greece I think.

The griffin was the school symbol. And to this day, it’s been, it’s since been turned into office blocks, which is a lot better use of it, because we didn’t get any education out of it. Yeah, yeah,

Steve Wade: not

John Wade: the Griffin, it was the building that turned into office blocks.

Steve Wade: The Griffin’s still there.

John Wade: No, the Griffin’s still there.

So, the class before mine, which was between Steve and I, made about, uh, oh, I would say a 12 foot tall cutout of a Griffin, and put it on the wall as their sort of graduation thing, yeah? It’s still there. That’s where the Griffin came from. And the 3 and 37, uh, Steve’s 37 comes from the, uh, Mini Cooper in the Monte Carlo Rally.

Four years ago now, yeah. The number 3, yeah, is extremely important. There’s no, no question about that one. We all know number three was, right? No, you don’t. Because it’s completely coincidental. So, like most people, after I got hooked, I went out and [00:07:00] jumped in a car, bought a full focus, never regretted anything more in my life.

Anyway, never mind. It all, it runs alright now. Well, it doesn’t run at all at the moment because it’s in about 8, 000 pieces parts, but that’s okay. So, I went and did autocross, yeah? So going on the solo like everybody you go under your first solar you’ve got no clue right? You’ve no idea. What’s going on This car’s all over the place.

This guy’s leaning and going brr rr psssss psssss And things are blllllllll squish you know, so you go to your course walk Sure, I thought I was gonna drive No! Go out and walk it. So you walk around, you’re supposed to memorize the thing. What a load of old cobblers. No way. Right? You go around. What do you see?

Cones! And you go around the corner. What do you see? Cones! More cones. You go down a little straight bit and they say, Oh, this is a Chicago box. Chicago? Not a bad band, but you’re back in the 70s, sonny. No, Chicago box is great. And what do you see in the Chicago box? [00:08:00] Cones! Fleeting more cones. And they said, don’t eat the cones.

Alright, I got it, yeah? Lovely. Memorize, of course, my foot. So they said, all right, go get your number. So I says, anyone do what now? He said, go over there to the trailer. Chat me in there. Cough up some dosh, some pictures of dead presidents. Give that to him, and he’ll give you a number. Ha, fine. So off I go.

You know, how much do I owe you? Believe it or not, it’s still the same today. 35. I said, alright, that’s not bad for a little, you know, it’s about a mile walk. So I’m done for the day, yeah, give him the 35 bucks, I’m off, back in my car, I’ll drive home. And he, he says, you need a number. I suppose, it’s just one on, on the car, like, you know, on the back.

Yeah, it’s got Alabama written on it. And he says, now I’ll give you one. So, he had a stencil cutting machine for cutting magnetic plate. He goes, turns around, comes back, guess what’s in his hand? A number three. That’s how that came about. Pure coincidence.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t [00:09:00] think anybody has a more thorough or complicated story about the selection of their racing number than you do.

That is by far the most interesting story about the number three.

John Wade: It’s all good, mate. Yeah. That’s how we came to be known as racing. Steve and I were sitting there, um, you know, drinking a fruit beverage based mostly actually on grains, but it’s, we didn’t know. I said, well, what are we going to call ourselves?

And that’s how it all came

Steve Wade: about. That was the only legal one we come up with. There was others you couldn’t really put

Crew Chief Eric: in public, you know, there’s lots of other names. John, when we visited you last year, we saw that you’re also a bit of a car collector and you do a lot of your own, your own work. Was that something that started before you got into motorsport, or did that start as a result of motorsport?

John Wade: Nah, it came about many, many years before that. So I told you the story of, you know, the first attempt at fixing a car and shooting my brother across the car park. So that was it. Well, that was inspiring, that was, because I could shoot [00:10:00] many people across the car park. I’m up for it, you know? No problems. So, as life progressed, we actually immigrated to the States.

And I’d just learned to drive in England, so I had a British driver’s license, came to the States. So now I’ve got to learn to drive in America, yeah? Great. So, eventually, my dad gave me one of his cars. Well, actually, he bought another one. I got this one. It was a 73 blue Chevrolet Impala, right? Everyone’s owned an Impala.

Steve called it the Batmobile. You know, it’s like everyone in here Hey, you

Steve Wade: lived in the damn thing!

John Wade: Oh, yeah, actually, yeah, that’s another story. Completely different subject. Yeah, that’s another story. I lived in it for a long time, but that was an ugly story. That was a good punch up, that one was. So, this car, being built in good Detroit steel, began to rust quite badly.

So, what did I do? Went and got a drill, a bit of metal. And one of the old acetylene torch things in the little cans. And I welded a bit of metal in it, sanded it down, and painted it completely the wrong color, by the way. So I’m like, Ah, that looks great, that darts not, it’s terrible, but it looked good, at least to me, yeah?

I thought that was [00:11:00] fun. I love some of that. So as life progressed, I got to where I wanted to buy an E type, which is, by far and away, the sexiest thing ever to be put on four wheels. Even Enzo says, That’s a nice motor, that. And when Enzo says, That’s a nice motor, you gotta listen to the man. You know, he’s had, he’s had his shot at nice motors.

Completely cocked it up, apparently. But nevermind. So I said, I’m gonna have an e type. To pay my way through college, I was working in a British car shop. Blokes would bring their cars in and I’d completely and utterly cock them up and give them back and take money. Magic, right? I was making a mint and every time I gave it back it was broke.

So they came back. It’s fantastic. It’s a self licking ice cream cone, Eric. It’s beautiful. I was digging this, you know. There was an e type parked in the shop and a bloke came down and this is a terrific story, absolutely true. He came down, his name was John and my boss’s name was Bear. John comes down and he’s got a 73 black e type V12, red connelly leather interior, red stripe tires, wire wheels, good business.

And as he drives in, you know, [00:12:00] I’m tripping over my tongue, my entrails are going around my kneecaps. I’m like, I love some of that. So he brings the thing in and he says, It’s rattling and knocking and it don’t run well. It’s an E Type. Big shock. So, Bear comes and gets me and says, Can you tune that car up?

I’ve got absolutely no idea what I’m doing. Uh, yeah, no problems. No problems. So, he says, Alright, go tune it up. He’s going to give it a valve adjustment. Have you ever tried to adjust V12 E Type? This, by the way, this is going to the car collection. I’m getting there, right? I start, yeah, I pull out the manual.

Bring out the, you know, little tall car. All professional like. I look down at this engine, which is about three quarters of a mile long and about 40 feet wide. It looks like a runway. I’m like, ooh, that’s tricky. And it’s got all these bulges on it, you know. And I’m like, what’s that then? And Bear says, well, that’s the valve covers.

Right, yeah, got it. I’ll have some of that, yank that off, and I’ll tweak the valves. Well, I yank those off, and what’s underneath them? Look in the book, of course, they’re camshafts. Because it’s dual [00:13:00] overhead cam. Not only is it dual overhead cam, there is no lash adjustment. You have to adjust the valves on an E type with shims.

So I go get a box of shims, and I fiddle fart around with this motor for two days, and it’s not bad. Then it’s the carburettor time. Little did I know what awaited me there. None of this SU cobblers, mate. None of this noo, Six twin Webers. Twelve bleeding carburetors. So, I had some experience with tuning silly little English cars with stupid carburetors that are mounted sideways.

So, I had a clue, despite the fact these were not English carburetors. I said, I’ll have a go at that. So, Bear comes out and he’s got this disc in his hand, about that big, with a little tube on it. If you’ve ever seen a Unisin, that’s what it was. And he gave it to me, I went, nice, eh? Right, sounds good. Now, what I want, inside, and we’ve got a link for a rubber tube.

About that long. Stick it in my ear. It’s not, it’s not a word of a lie. And there’s another mechanic that is watching me, like, this bloke’s completely lost his [00:14:00] marbles. Stick the tube in your ear, stick it in the throat of the carburetor, and adjust the carburetor. Then you hear the sissing sound. Shhh. Go to the next one, it goes, psst, adjust it again.

And keep going around, and around, and around, till they all kiss the same amount. Which means they’re taking in the same amount of air. Is

Crew Chief Eric: that why you’re hard of hearing in that ear?

John Wade: Yeah, so eventually we’ll adjust it, and I get this engine purring, yeah? This monstrous engine, and it’s going, Ssssh, tick, tick, tick.

Ssssh, tick, tick, tick. It’s actually driving me bonkers, I got it that, so we called up John, I said, John, You come down and get your mower. So he comes down and he comes down in a rather tasty little car, drives up and he gets out of his little car and he walks over and I said, John, it will tick about once every minute or so.

And he stands there and he says, that’s the best that car has ever run. I said, you know, take it because you’ve got about 20 minutes before it goes out of tune again. So better get on the road, you know, better drive it to the next gas station. Cause it’s got a gas tank about the size of a beer bottle. I look at the little [00:15:00] car he drove up in.

Remember this is 1982. Gas crisis, big engines are out of vogue, and it’s a little British car. And I look at this little British car, I don’t know what that is. And he looked at me and he said, do you? I said, yeah. I said, I’ve seen those before, we’ve seen them in England. I said, they’re pretty rare, aren’t they?

He said, and he kind of grinned, you know, he had this sly grin on his face. He owned an electronic shop. Yeah, they’re very rare. I said, yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in America. So. Walk around his car, it’s blue, and the other mechanic wants to come up and look in the, where the engine bay is, you know?

And he leans on the fender, and John says, don’t lean on the fender. He goes, oh, sorry, I didn’t want to put fingerprints on it. He says, you’re not gonna put fingerprints on it. You’re gonna bend it. Odd story. So I’m like, what’s all this about, you know? Some arrogant American worried about bending his car with the pressure of a hand.

You know, oh, don’t worry about the mosquito, we’ll just go for the windshield. He says, do you wanna have a go? He said, I’ll take you for a ride. I said, yeah, alright. So out we go, it’s a place called Hanover Street in [00:16:00] Fredericksburg, Virginia. So we go up Hanover Street, and we go down to the local shopping mall, when there was such a thing, before they were all torn down.

And we do the Mall 500, yeah? Go round and round the parking lot, waving at the girls and their little sports car, yeah? We get back to the top of Hanover Street, which slopes downhill, to Bear’s Shop. And he stopped. And he looked over at me and he said, You want to see how this thing goes? And I’m like, yeah, I mean, I’ve been in sports cars all my life.

Since I was a little kid. He mashed the gas in that car and I could not move. The thing burned rubber for an entire city block. And all I’m doing is screaming. I mean, little girls screaming. This car is accelerating. There’s clouds of smoke and there’s snot mouths and camel fur flying every which way. All I can do is grip on this little car.

And so I look at him like, What in the hell is that? So we come back to the shop. And he goes, he says, he says to me, he says, it goes all right, doesn’t it? I said, yeah, it goes all right there. I said, what is under the hood of this car? So he walks around and a little bonnet with two door handles on it. [00:17:00] Like from your shed, and he turns the two door handles from your shed and takes the bonnet off.

Oh, that’s pretty stylish. You know, don’t get a gust of wind, mate. Poof, off she goes. All I can see under that is carburettors. You know what kind of car it was? I thought it was called a Bristol. It wasn’t a Bristol, it was an AC. It was a Cobra 427 Semi Comp. 525 horsepower from the factory. In a car that weighed about 2, 000 pounds.

That was my first experience with rather natty cars. But I like his E Type best. I want to buy one. Well, my finances didn’t, and still don’t, run to buying an E Type. Plus the fact that they’re now a precious artifact and no longer a car. So I said, I know what I’ll do. I’ll build myself one. So I found a company in the Goodwood Motor Racing Circuit, in the old Shell building, which is since gone in the last few years.

But the Super Shell building, which is where they used to paddock the cars, the race cars. There’s a guy called John [00:18:00] Randall, and he was making a car called a Wildcat. The Wildcat’s an sort of E Type replica. It’s really E Type inspired. It’s about four inches longer and four inches wider, if you ordered it like I did, with the much wider fenders, because I’m going to put American wheels, tires, and running gear in the car.

So, when I got the car, it had no mounts. It had a chassis and a body and no mounts of any kind. Nothing. I made all the mounts myself. Built the car myself, it’s still sitting in the garage right now. Although I destroyed the gearbox in it two weeks ago. Completely melted. I melted third gear. You want to try doing that?

It’s tricky. No, don’t. It’s naughty. Completely melted the gear. Except for third. Third worked, right? Ah, yeah, I had a, yeah, it was melted. I had a box full of firsts, really. Uh, it wouldn’t come in, there was no neutrals, just a box full of firsts. Uh, so it’s out of the car at the moment, but that’s alright. Um, so when I finished it, drove it for years, and then a major problem started with the car.

It kept blowing a fuse, yeah? Well, I’d used an old Mustang wiring harness, and what was happening was the [00:19:00] wires were getting wrapped around the steering column, and shorting out, they’d blow the fuse. So I said, right, I’ve had enough of this. I’m going to put a new wiring harness in it. Fine. This is six years ago.

So I said, great, that’ll work. So I’ll buy one of these Ron Francis super duper wiring harnesses for it. Well, to effectively put the wiring harness in, you really will take the engine and gearbox out of the way. Okay. Well, one engine and gearbox is out of the way, we’ll have, we’ll have a different one. So, I added about 200 horsepower, fuel injection, limited slip rear axle, changed all the suspension because I wasn’t overly pleased with it, then I got, uh, Aldean shock absorbers, Fat Man front suspension, polished stainless steel A arms, had the body painted and had a new interior put in it.

So, other than that, I left it alone. It was exactly, exactly stock. So, in the meantime, when I was flying for the army, I decided from a very little kid when I was 10 years old, there’s a place called Bush Fair near Latin Bush, little shopping center in England, got a pub in it called The Painted Lady. You remember that, Steve?

Yeah. In the [00:20:00] parking lot of that pub was the most gorgeous automobile I had ever seen in my life. Flying fenders, long bonnet, little bitty tail, two seats, beautiful car. It was a Morgan. I thought, I’m thrilled. Then I saw on TV a documentary of how they made them. It’s like, I’ve got to have one of them. Got to have one of them.

Little did I know that it would cost the best part of a year’s salary and get three, take three years to buy one. So I said, well, that’s a bit of a problem. So I started looking for a used one. And as it turns out, I got a bonus for being a pilot in the army. So I said, I know what I’m going to do with that.

Yeah. Two years on the internet before I found the car I now own, which was a Morgan Plus 8 with a roller throttle and treated wood. Which is sitting in the garage right now, next to a 65 Mustang Fastback, which is a running driving car, it just, you wouldn’t want to be seen running and driving it. It may be running away from it, perhaps, but not in it.

So it’s purple at the moment, and that’s the next [00:21:00] restoration. Next to that is a 73 VW Super Beetle convertible, which is in an excellent state of rust. Really, what you’ve got here is a VW pile of metal oxide. It’s shaped like a VW, but it really isn’t there. It’s just a myth.

Crew Chief Eric: I believe they call that the, uh, Wolfsburg edition.

John Wade: Yeah, yeah, it might be the Rustberg edition in my case, but yeah, like that. It’s something like that. So next to that are two John Cooper Works Mini Coopers. One’s a Clubman, the other one’s a 17, uh, JCW, and I course, naturally, it’s fairly new, it’s only got 20, 000 miles on it. I could not let that rest, could I?

It’s only got 230 horsepower, I’ve got to have something more than that. So, a couple of calls to Mini Mania, and M7, and in comes, uh, about 1800 bucks worth of bits in boxes, and a little bitty box. That is the secret to that car, right? Because what it is, of course, is a tuna fish. Looks like a fish. Stick your tuna fish in, put your bits [00:22:00] on, go drive.

280 horsepower Mini Cooper S. That thing will flat scream. It is so much fun, and it embarrasses so many people. I absolutely adore that little car. It’s great. And the only reason I ever got into Minis was because of that twit next to me over there.

Crew Chief Eric: So I was actually going to ask, oh, you have a lot of experience turning wrenches.

You’ve also been in magazines for your, your miniatures and your collections and things of that nature. I’ve seen the work you do. It’s very, very good. We don’t have to go, we don’t have to go down that rabbit hole. It’s exceptional. So Steve, do you have the same wrench turning background that John does?

Or how did you get to where you are now with your cars?

Steve Wade: No, no, not at all. I’m just a cheap bastard who won’t let anybody else work on my cars. That is the sum total of it. There’s nothing else to it. Actually, what happened, I have nowhere near that mechanical background at all. It wasn’t until about, let’s see, 2002, when the new Mini came out in the States that I actually got into anything.

I bought a 2002 Mini, which I gave to my son in the [00:23:00] end. Then I bought the 2004 Mini, known as the MC40, and we’ll come on to some of those stories too. And, you know, as I said, I started in autocross and started to mess around with it, and you know, you get all kinds of ads about, well, try to do this, and try to do that to it, so I thought, well, I’ll give it a try.

But, you know, I couldn’t take it to the dealer because I couldn’t afford it. Didn’t want to anyway, didn’t want to mess with my car. So bought some tools, bought some bits, you know, put a pulley on it, put a cold intake on it, that kind of stuff. And it started going faster and faster. And then, you know, John and I went actually to, as I said, on his 50th birthday down to Atlanta.

And then it was it was like, let’s get these cars on the track and let’s do some serious stuff. And that was when I really started pulling wrenches and taking cars apart and reading books and then screwing it off and taking it apart and putting it back together again. And then as, as is, uh, The name of the show, break it, fix it, break it, fix it, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. That’s it, so. You both have Mini Coopers. Is that just a [00:24:00] inherent patriotic British thing? Or did you have Minis, old school Minis, as we call them here, when you were younger?

John Wade: It’s not very patriotic because it’s German, aren’t they? Well,

Steve Wade: they

Crew Chief Eric: are.

Steve Wade: Well, the new ones are. The new ones are. Actually, I, um, When I first came to the States, you know, because I was English, of course, I was looking for stuff that would be, you know, a little bit of a home style kind of thing, and I actually saw a classic mini for sale in a place called Leesburg, Virginia.

I didn’t actually go get it at that particular point in time, but I thought, you know That would be fun to have an old MINI, because it’s very unusual, you know, it probably gets a lot of attention. So, I actually ended up buying a, uh, 1984 Classic MINI, which I’ve still got out in the garage. 25th anniversary edition, so it’s silver.

And that’s another car that I, I got to work on myself because nobody else can work on or very, very few folks. So, joined a club, you know, Mini, Capital Mini Register, actually was president of that for a while. Tooled around, you know, doing Christmas [00:25:00] shows, all kinds of stuff and exhibitions with that car.

That was before I got into the new Mini at all. And I say, I got a 2004, which was the MC40, and then we put that on the track. Of course, at that point, John had his focus. He was a fooled man at that particular point in time. And was, uh, running his focus all over the place, trying to keep up with his older brother.

Because at that point in time, not only did he not have a car that was as fast as mine, he didn’t have the talent either. I just want to make that clear, you can repeat that, you can put that on a loop, and just put that on the podcast, that there was a time When I had a faster car than him and could drive better than him.

Doesn’t occur anymore, but it did back then. It was fleeting, Jack.

Crew Chief Eric: Fleeting. I want to dive in just to the younger versions of yourselves. Not that you’re, not that you’re that old. Maybe no classic Mini in your portfolio, but was there the other British staple in there? Was there a Cortina or was there a Mondeo or anything like that?

Because the way it’s portrayed to us

John Wade: here

Crew Chief Eric: across the pond is that everybody owned. [00:26:00] A Cortina at some point in their life.

Steve Wade: Well, I it’s not a Cortina story But when I first got in industry in england, uh, it’s very common for part of the benefits in Companies in england, so you get a company car and the first company car I ever had was a 1.

6 full capri And then I got promoted and got a two liter that was special a two liter capri mate And that thing was awesome. I loved that car. So I made it I I was all the way to the top as far as I was concerned. I had a Really neat sports car, you know, it was a

Crew Chief Eric: Ford, but you know, it was what it was. So yeah.

If it’s any consolation, my dad had a Capri. I believe it was a 76 with a 2. 8 liter.

Steve Wade: He must’ve been way up in management. That’s all I can say. It must’ve been. Gave him a track car, mate.

Crew Chief Eric: He told me more than once he spent more time going backwards in that car than forwards because it was very tail happy.

John Wade: The absolute death trap.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, oh yeah. You guys probably saw the end, or quote unquote the end of the grand tour with [00:27:00] our favorite trio, you know, Clarkson, Hammond, and May. Were you guys saddened in the same way that they were with the exodus of the Mondeo or the Cortina? Did you see it go away?

John Wade: It’s like, it’s like saying you’re nostalgic about a pinto, for God’s sake.

No! Yeah, yeah, right. There are certain things Good riddance, that thing was a piece of crap. You know, measles, herpes, cortinas, capris, those things. No, you don’t want that hanging around, mate. I think you want to get that off the road. No,

Steve Wade: they’re

Crew Chief Eric: dangerous.

John Wade: Population control.

Crew Chief Eric: I have to ask, this one is going to be one of my favorite questions for an interview, but since you guys are from England If you could have a beer with any one of the three, Clarkson, Hammond, or May, who would it be?

Steve, you go first.

Steve Wade: Uh, May, I think. One, because he’s got so many other interests. Captain Sloane!

Crew Chief Eric: That’s why! Yeah.

Steve Wade: Well, you know, he likes trains and stuff like that. Builds big Legos and stuff. So he’s really cool. No, [00:28:00] but Captain And I’m about his same pace as well, so yeah, that’s right. I think James may be a lot of fun, he’s a, I think he’s a pretty neat, and not only that, you know, I don’t like people that aren’t too much taller than, so, can’t go with Hammond because I’m like six foot taller than he is, and Clarkson is just an arse, so, you know, he don’t count.

Your turn, John.

John Wade: Uh, it’s got to be the producer that took the blow from Clarkson, I think that’s a bloke I would pick. If anybody’s been to stick his nose in front of Clarkson, mate, you got that. He got him fired. Cool. That’s the bloke I’m on. Yeah. Uh, the hamster’s pretty cool. Why? Because he’s the only one who’s got the balls to stand up to Clarkson.

I love it. He may be short, but he’s wiry me all the time. He’s wiry.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s awesome. Oh man, I’ve got to contain myself. So let’s fast forward a bit. You guys have done some pro solo, you’ve done some autocross, obviously you guys have been competitive, all three brothers competitive, probably since day one. I know you guys are avid time trialers now and I’ve run with you guys [00:29:00] as well, but let’s fast forward to, I somehow got to be both of your instructors.

You did. Yeah.

John Wade: Yeah. And that’s the reason So it’s your bloody fault? Yeah. That’s the reason we’ve had no success since.

Steve Wade: Yeah, so I can’t drive, dammit. Ha ha ha ha ha

John Wade: ha ha ha ha ha ha. So it’s a sod all, not a trophy. Not a bleep. Yeah, I don’t know about that thing. No, actually All the time I thought it was, I had no talent.

And that’s not true. No, well, I mean you could say that, because even Eric couldn’t bring it out of us, could he? Oh, oh, ow. Oh, complete lack of talent. Nothing you do about that. You know, you can teach, you can train, you can mentor, but you can’t fix stupid, can you? That’s it.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s, let’s talk about the Glen because that was one heck of a weekend for both of you guys.

And I know John, you got a really good story, which really sets up the curse of the mini conversation.

John Wade: Well,

Steve Wade: hold [00:30:00] on. Let me tell a story before we start because I’ll probably fall asleep when he tells that story again. So I’m going to tell you a story that preambles that one. So it’s about a bear and it’s a very important bear.

Does it involve a small blonde child in a bowl of porridge?

John Wade: Yeah, it’s, it’s a bit of a new story, isn’t it, this one, coming up.

Steve Wade: Yeah, that’s it, just steal the punchline, right up the top, just steal the punchline. No, it doesn’t. Anyway, so I’m doing solo cross up in Cumberland, Maryland, you know, and I have a house up there, so I took the mini out, and it wasn’t really that Uh, modified at that point in time.

So it’s just a regular mini. So I take the mini up there and I go up there on a Friday. We run Saturday, Sunday. So I leave the car outside the house and about two o’clock in the morning, I hear this noise outside, scraping noise, really weird noise. So I go down in house, look out the window and there is a bear on the back of my mini, ripping it to pieces.

In one paw, he has got, I think he’s trying to [00:31:00] mate with it. That does come into the story, but anyway. One day he’s got the rear windscreen wiper, because I figured, you know, getting windscreen wipers in the bare world is fairly difficult, so that’s why he took one of those. He rips off the bumper cover of the back, literally rips it off with his teeth.

I’m looking at him wrecking my car. I’m thinking, what the hell am I going to do? So there’s a broom in the house, and I thought, Oh no, I’ll go, you know, hit with a broom. But I’ve heard his stories about poking a bear that you’re not supposed to do. So I didn’t mean that was an idea. So I think to myself, I don’t know, I, I did what any red blooded Anglo-American would do.

I went and woke and woke my wife up. That’s what I did. So I go upstairs and I wake her up. Well, she’s from the mountain. It’s legitimate. It’s not that funny. So anyway, I got upstairs. So I wake her up, I said, there’s a bear eating my car. And she said, and I didn’t think it was funny at the time. She said, well, he’s probably hungry.

Now, if it wasn’t a true story, I would have said that was pretty funny, but I didn’t take it that way. So I said, is there a bear eating my car? I’m not kidding. [00:32:00] So she goes back downstairs with me, goes, looks out the window, and now the bear is not on the back of the car anymore, he’s standing on the side of it with his paws on the roof, shaking the car.

And he’s probably six foot at that point. And I go, what am I going to do? Yeah, he can’t shoot the thing. Well, mainly because he didn’t have a gun, so that didn’t, didn’t help much. But anyway, so She looks at me, she opens the door, sticks her head out and goes, Shoo! And the bear runs away. And, it’s like, wow.

That’s, that’s what you do with a bear. She said, you don’t come from the mountains. Went upstairs and went to bed.

John Wade: I mean, the bear, in the minute, it thought it was trying to get salt out of it. Where’s no bloody salt? Where are the holes in the top? Trying to put it on a windshield

Steve Wade: wiper. But let me tell you why it was trying to get in the car, see, because this is also my wife’s fault. So I, as far as I’m concerned, it was her job to get rid of the damn thing anyway.

So before I came up that day, she says to me, stop by the nursery and pick up some mulch. So I said, sure, you know, you can’t get too much mulch in a mini. So I [00:33:00] go down the, uh, nursery, open the back of the car, the guy throws three bags of mulch in. I get up there. Now let’s park the car. I’ve come to find out it is cocoa shell malt.

That is, it’s the husk of the cocoa bean, which is used to make chocolate. So my buddy Yogi was just trying to get himself some chocolate dessert at the back of my car. That’s all he wanted. That was why he broke into the bloody thing in the

Crew Chief Eric: first place. Fortunately, I think the bear is my spirit animal.

So therefore the connection continues with this cursed mini and wet head and everything else.

Steve Wade: Yeah, and that goes back, that was kind of the first prelude for, Oh my God, this car is definitely cursed. So anyway, fast forward some years later, We’ve gone to Atlanta, we’ve done a few bits and pieces, We’ve thrown some wrenches on it, And John and I

Crew Chief Eric: end up at Watkins Glen.

At the coaches meeting, I was told, Hey, you have two brothers in the mini, And I was thinking to myself, Great. I’ve got two 20 year [00:34:00] olds in a hot rodded, slammed Mini Cooper. What am I in for this weekend? And as I round the corner, and you guys were in a bay not even that far from me, I was, I was very surprised.

I was very taken aback. Two mature gentlemen like yourselves.

John Wade: Yeah, now what you’re trying to say is two fat, 50 ish foreigners. That’s exactly right. In a minute. With an engine the size of a wallet. One of the goals in all this, by the way, of us doing this racing thingy, is, yeah, there’s the thrill of the racing, but also the fact that we get to go on places that very few people get to go in the world, and places that we’d heard about in England, and you can pick up your bottle of beverage and tell stories that nobody believes.

It’s awesome. So we go to some of the most famous tracks in the world, and that’s part of what we do. We have what’s called a treat track every year, and we pick one track that’s world famous and go [00:35:00] there. We’ve been to Indy and Daytona and the little Talladega bit, Watkins Glen, all over the place. So the Glenn was in a special challenge

Crew Chief Eric: and we got to share in some of that enthusiasm with you last year because for a lot of us the cannonball run is very similar and so and coming to barber last year was part of that bucket list of going to a world famous track again Thank you for hosting us.

That was an incredible weekend, but yeah,

John Wade: it’s It’s bucket list and it buckets down. It’s Alabama, four o’clock in the evening.

Crew Chief Eric: That

Steve Wade: did bloody rain. It did rain that night. No good way to end it. So

John Wade: the glitch, you know, for us especially, because a lot of British drivers drove there in the Formula One, back in Formula One days, Formula Two, the Formula Three days.

People that we idolize, people like Graham Hill and Stirling Moss have driven that track. So there we are walking through the town and there are paving stones in the town with the names of our heroes. Who have eaten in the restaurants we go into and have driven on the track that we’re going to go drive on.

So this is like reverence to us, yeah? Reverence be damned. Let’s go [00:36:00] fast. So we get on this world famous fast track in a car that most cars on the track would outrun in second. But it’s alright, we’re going as fast as we can, yeah? So we get in the car and we’re trading stories. What about this corner? What about that one?

Can’t get up the S since Every time we get up the S since people are passing us left and right. Diabolical. Point bias left and right. cannot figure it out. So Steve and I said to each other, we need to get someone to show us how to do this. And that was you. And what we were doing was changing out a third coming into turn two to go up the S’s.

And you said, don’t do that. Leave it in fourth. Which, of course, Steve and I are both like, Kya! Cobblers. No way. Yes way. And, of course, we got up the hill much faster. And we started to develop quite a bit of speed. Got that little mini up to about 137 miles an hour on that back straight. Going into the bus stop.

Which, in a mini, is trucking right along. Little car was going pretty well. Fortunately, it’s got pretty decent brakes because I’d have killed myself five times if it didn’t. I’m going around, yeah. After you left us, and I’m on me [00:37:00] own. Having a lot of fun. Well, Steve and I are firm believers in the fact that cars talk to you.

Crew Chief Brad: They do.

John Wade: They do. Especially Dominic cars like this one. It’s like Damien, you know, this thing. And it was talking to us very, very gently by dropping its entrails onto the ground in the shed. So it’s dripping steadily. It’s a British car. Not only do we expect it, if it’s not dripping, it’s empty, yeah? So what happened?

Well, look underneath. What’s that, Steve? Steve looks like a dial, mate. I think that’s power steering fluid. Ah, no big deal. Like, these little cars, front wheel drive cars, when you’re hammering the steering around, have a tendency to boil the fluid. Pukes out all over the place. Nothing but a thing. Yeah, it’s back on the track.

No problems on the track We go sort of around a couple of laps come down boom on the main straight the pitch straight and then coming up turn two Steering gets a little bit stiff right before I’m starting to turn in. Like, ah, [00:38:00] no, power steering’s gone, yeah? All the fluid’s pissed out. No big deal. So I’m like, I’m gonna, I ain’t gonna stop.

I’m not going in the bloody pits. I’m gonna complete this lap, Sonny. I paid for this. And around I go. And it’s, it’s not that bad. It doesn’t weigh that much, right? So it’s like, ah, sod it. And the faster you go, the better it is anyway. So put your foot on the pedal. You’ll be alright. Well, by this time, there’s sort of concerned looks.

of people around the track. But that’s all right. So we go through the bus stop, down five, up through seven, and all of a sudden, I see black flags. I’m like, oh, no! I’m trying to get into the pits and get this thing fixed, will ya? Black flags, big black flags. So I’m sort of coasting to a halt. Black flag pointed.

Stop! Okay, red flag. Okay, so I pull over onto the grass, and I’m sitting there with a little car idling, you know, and behind me comes a GT Mustang, and he’s blowing his horn, and I’m [00:39:00] like, yeah, yeah, nice Mini, yeah, it goes well, doesn’t it? Lovely little car. I wonder what’s going on. Somebody’s obviously hit the wall in 8 or 9 up ahead of us.

So about that time I hear the sirens, and there’s the lights. And up comes the emergency vehicles to go up and rescue this prat who just bashed the wall. So as I’m looking, you know, you can’t turn very far. The emergency vehicles, there’s a fire engine, an ambulance, a rescue car, jaws alive. There’s like four helicopters flying.

So, screech! Next to me. What’s the matter, officer? The speedometer’s broke, you know, I was just guessing. And a cab gets out, and he comes running over to the car. And I’m sort of like, Oh, nice. Yeah. It’s a nice little mullet. Why don’t you go rescue the prattler himself up there? And he leans in the window and he goes, Get out!

I’m like, oh no, I wasn’t going that fast, officer. He goes, Get out! Now! What? So I’m starting to undo the belt, you know, the little buckle thing, you know, making sure I’m smelling good. And he [00:40:00] says, You’re on fire! I’m like, Eh! Boom! Out the door I jump. Sure enough, there’s smoke billowing out the back of the car.

So I’m like, Okay! And another guy runs out the fire engine, Comes round the front of the car, And he says, Where’s the hood latch? I have no clue! It’s Steve’s car! I don’t know where it is! It, um, it’s There in the car because I’ve suddenly figured out it’s probably on the wrong side, isn’t it? The hood latch is on the passenger side in this little mower.

So I’m slowly figuring this out whilst about that time Some little chap about that tall grabs me by the shoulders spins me around and pins me up against the ambulance I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What’s up? And he goes, okay The hood latch and he pins me back in and he goes how many fingers have I got? I’m hoping ten but There’s four in front of me.

And he says, How many there are? I said three. He goes, You alright? And I’m [00:41:00] like, Well, yeah. What’s the problem? By this time they figured out how to open the hood of the Mini and there are flames. Not much. Flames shooting out the engine. It’s bad because the fire should be inside the engine. You know, the outside flames now.

Not a good thing. So, he says, you gotta come with me. I’m like, okay. So he bundles me into the ambulance. So, car, yeah, car, not, not mine. Not my car, right there. Uh, you need to get that. So the guys come around and they gently pick up this little motor to put it on the back of the tow truck. Yeah, to get it up on the flatbed.

Because it’s so low and so little, it wouldn’t actually get over the ramp. So all these guys cluster around the front and they pick it up. And they march it up on the back of the flatbed, put it down. So I get in the ambulance, and they’re doing the So this guy comes up, he goes You, get off me! Is that you?

You alright? How are you? He’s giving me oxygen! Why am I getting oxygen? I’m perfectly alright! And so he’s, then he’s doing things with little [00:42:00] discs sticking over here and stuff and sticking his fingers up under my neck. He’s like, you alright mate? Yeah, I’m fine. He says, alright, I think you’re alright.

Yeah, I’ve been trying to tell you that for about the past ten minutes, never mind. But don’t worry about the freaking car that’s burning to the ground over there, you take care of me. So off we go back to the paddock. Into the paddock we go, and here’s Steve. Well apparently there’d been a radio call that my wife and Steve had heard while I’m out there.

Number 37 on fire. So we get the car, get it off the back of the flatbed, put it up on jack stands, and it’s melting. The bottom of the cars, all the wires are melting, it’s nasty. I’m thinking we’ll put it back on the track. Steve’s like, nah, probably not. About that time, up comes a corner marshal who goes over to Steve.

He says, is that your car? He says, yeah. He said, uh, we saw you out there. And he goes, no, it’s actually my brother. So he comes over to me, he says, were you driving that car? I said, yeah. He said, I’m the corner marshal from turn two. I remember I stopped at turn seven, which is, I don’t know, about 150 miles away.

And he says, when you went past me, flames were shooting [00:43:00] out from under the car, both sides and in the rear. No way! He’s like, yeah. He said, we tried to stop you all the way to turn seven and you just ignored everybody. I was racing, mate. I don’t want to stop, do I? As it turns out, it was probably a really, really smart thing to do.

Just by coincidence, because as the fluid drained out, caught fire, the wind, because I was going so fast, blew the flames out, the fluid puked on the ground, and then I got arrested and thrown into jail. Yeah, so not a bad day at Watkins Glen, all in all, you know, so that was about the third time that thing went home on a trailer.

Steve Wade: It’s very fortunate that you played. John didn’t get hurt or anything, and none of his clothes got hurt or anything. Especially his fire suit, which was actually sitting on the chair in the garage and not on his back. His fire suit was very safe. Not a

John Wade: mark on that fire suit, lovely.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s very good. Yeah.

John Wade: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So Steve, that was the first fire and the second plague. We had the bear attack, our first Inferno, followed by the second [00:44:00] Inferno.

Steve Wade: Yeah. See, like I said, I’m a cheap sod. So what happens when I got it back home again, I decided that. You know, I can fix it, no big deal. So I’d, you know, put the car up, get underneath it, take the power steering out, because it’s electric anyway, take all the hoses out, everything, just take it all apart.

You know, throw all that crap away, buy a whole bunch of new stuff, put it back in again, put some more power steering fluid in it. Start it up. Works fine. No problem. It’s running peachy king. So I go, okay, fine. When’s the next event? Next event is at Shenny. So I drove it to Shenny. I didn’t tell it. Drove it to Shenny.

Everything was perfectly fine. We’re running on Shenny. And Eric, I do believe you were there that time too, weren’t you? You actually were, right? You! You! I’m telling you, yeah. He even looks like a bear now you come to look at it. Yeah, he’s a bear! Yeah, he’s a bear suit he was in that day. I tell you, anyway, so, we’re at, we’re at Chenny, right?

So I’m driving the Mini around Chenny. And I’m going, doing the same thing, you know, going as fast as I can through all the corners, slowing everybody else, but still [00:45:00] going as fast as I can go. And there’s somebody going, Toot toot! Beep beep beep beep! Around the tracks. Well, what the hell’s that supposed to mean?

I have no idea. So I’m coming down the straightaway, you know, doing that U turn, coming back in again, and all of a sudden, the, uh, steering gets really stiff. I went, I’ve heard this friggin story before. So I know what’s the matter with this. The power steering’s pissed out all over again. As you come over the hill at Shenandoah, through that U turn, you now can just go straight into the pit.

So I just went, okay, fine, you know, hand out the window, went straight, let it run down the hill, into the middle of the paddock, stop the car, and it Instantly fills with smoke. Instantly. I mean, it’s like, just like that. It fills with smoke. So I thought, well, I probably, I’d better get out. Don’t need any advice.

Not like my brother. Don’t need anybody coming up and talking to you. Just get the fuck out of the car. So I undo everything, jump out the car. And the problem was there was probably 50 people who now wanted to help me. with fire extinguishers, and there are fire extinguishers and shit everywhere. There’s smoke from the car.

There’s white [00:46:00] powder all over the place. I’m standing next to it. So I’m trying to tell people it’s all right. Don’t worry about it. It’s not a before I can fix it. It’s no big deal. And then someone opens, opens the hood and the chimney effect happens. And now somebody said to me, I don’t know. It was, have you turned it off?

And I said, of course I’ve turned it off. But, I didn’t know this at the time, I was lying. Because it was still on, which meant the fuel pump was on. So every time somebody went up with a fire extinguisher, they put a fire out, then the fuel would come back up again. And I did like four or five times, I went, let me take the key out.

So I took the key out, and uh, that was, that, that, that time. Even I couldn’t fix it. There was hardly anything left, any plastic left under that, that at all. Your

Crew Chief Eric: reenactment of Chernobyl was quite authentic.

John Wade: Oh, it was a

Crew Chief Eric: meltdown.

Steve Wade: It was,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, there was crap everywhere. It was clouds of stuff all over the place.

So what you didn’t know, as we saw you coming in with the smoke coming out from underneath the car, I had yelled to the, to the crew, Steve’s on fire, grab your fire extinguisher, [00:47:00] and so we, as you stopped, we were running towards you, and I remember yelling at you in the car, You’re on fire! You’re on fire!

And you’re like, what? Like, get out! And at that point, we just unloaded the fire extinguishers all over the

John Wade: car. You said it wrong. What you should have said was, you’re on fire again.

By the way, you know, in the world of races, stuff like this happens, you know, cars blow up, bits come off, gearboxes drop out the bottom, that sort of thing. But in the world of civilians, this is not a common occurrence, yeah? So we had our niece Miranda there, Carolyn and I’s niece, actually Carolyn’s niece was there.

And she saw this whole event. By the way, I’m on the track behind him. And come around the corner to this great column of smoke coming out of the pit. Going, that’s not good. No, that’s my brother. It’s like, oh well, he’ll fix it. Nah, I got, I got another ten minutes on this session. I’m rocking baby. So, Miranda [00:48:00] apparently comes up to the car with Carolyn.

And she turns to Carolyn and says, Is it normal for flames to be coming out from underneath the car? She had no clue that

Crew Chief Eric: this was not a normal occurrence, even for us. After that, we loaded your car up on my trailer, and I took you home, began the process of finding a replacement.

Steve Wade: Yep, that’s exactly what happened, yep.

Because this time, even with all the wrenches and the cheap shit, so I’ve got some stuff I do, so we get it back to my house, I put it in the, uh, in the courtyard, and, you know, I get underneath it, and they’re All it was, was the block, and everything else was gone. All the plastic’s gone, everything’s gone, so I could see how it was, I was in Nope, even I can’t fix this one.

And by the way, the reason it did it, was because I changed out everything I said on the power steering fluid and all that kind of stuff. But the rack for the steering, which is right by the power steering pump, surprisingly enough, I didn’t change the seal. And apparently when you put seals under pressure after they’ve been on fire, they leak.

Ask me how I know.

John Wade: Now wait a minute. Wait, I’ve got to call cobblers on this. I know exactly what happened here. It [00:49:00] was sod all to do with seals, although it was a contributing factor. What happened? You know that little funny little curve called the carousel? The carousel’s got an ankle biter in it, doesn’t it?

It’s about 45

Crew Chief Eric: degrees, yeah.

John Wade: Yeah, so there’s a ridge. And if you put two wheels on the right side of that ridge And two wheels on the left side of the ridge, the middle of the car hits the ridge. What is there in a mini? Power steering cooler. Power steering

Steve Wade: pump.

John Wade: Bye bye now, bye, didn’t need you anyway. See ya.

Now little does he know, little did we know at that time, that many years later we would spend a hell of a lot of time, effort and money doing exactly what he did. tearing everything we can off the car, leave just the block and the metal, and go race. Yep, yep, do it again. It was the carbon

Steve Wade: effect. So, moving on to the next part of this pestilence story, was in fact, again, at Shandy, but this time on Main, right?

So, as we were saying there, the car was pretty much wrecked, so I ripped out of it what I could take, which was the, [00:50:00] um, seats and, you know, sway bars and crap like that, and went and bought another one. Well, actually, John got and found the one down in, Huntsville way. So we find this Mini, actually it was in Nashville, wasn’t it John?

Yeah, it was in Nashville. So we find this Mini, look just like the Mini that we set on fire twice and you know, had been broken into by a bear and all those kinds of things. Except it wasn’t an MC40, it wasn’t a commemorative edition. But anyway, so we buy that one, so I go down and get it. Drive it back, then we take all the crap out of it, or most of it.

Take the seats out, all that kind of good stuff. Get it ready for the track, so, no problem. Get back in it again. This time I checked the power steering pump. Actually, I left it alone, which was probably a good idea. It was apparently ruining a touchstone scrap. So anyway, so I, we, uh, take it to Shenny. As you know, Friday night we get there.

John’s there with his trailer and his Focus. He gets the Focus off. I park the Mini beside it. We’re up at the front end on Main, there, where the paddock is. And everything’s good. All good. No problem. We go back to the hotel, have a couple of beers, and, uh, apparently the heavens opened. [00:51:00] In fact, I think it was the second coming of the apocalypse that night, because it hammered down.

I mean, one storm. Yeah, that’s right. Yep, yep. There was all kinds of stuff. Noah was staying in the room next to mine in the hotel. He hadn’t got his boat ready at that time, but he was definitely there. Apparently it rained that night, and it rained where we were. So the next morning we go back to Maine and there’s a sign right by the cars that says subject to flooding.

Well no shit. At that point in time there must have been 400 million gallons of water all around all the car. My car, again, my car is up to the wheels in water. It’s full of water. The engine, the battery is dead as a dodo because it’s been underwater for about two hours. So I’m looking at it and Eric, I think it was you that came up and said.

Is that your car, Steve? And I said, yes, it is, because we didn’t know how to get ahold of you. And I’ll tell you a story. Every time I go somewhere in this [00:52:00] region at this point in time, someone comes up to me and says, is that your red Mini? And I go, yep. They go, well, we couldn’t get ahold of you. Well, why don’t you just throw the fucking thing out?

What difference does it make? You know,

Crew Chief Eric: nevermind. So there’s a little extra piece to that story, because I happened to drive to Summit Point, Maine that night to meet up with some other people that were there in the paddock. And I saw your car. park there. And as I drove around, it had just started to open up.

It was very difficult to see. And I’m in the, I’m in the station wagon, which is very low car and all that. I actually got beached in the middle of the paddock and it flooded out and it killed like everything. It locked up the serpentine belt and all this kind of stuff. So I’m sitting there and pouring down rain and mountain man, Dan, who.

As the listeners know has been on several other episodes at this point comes and basically yanks me out of the, out of this giant puddle that I trapped myself in. So we’re underneath of the, the canopies there and waiting for stop raining. And so I was trying, I was still trying to figure out why my car wasn’t running.

So soaking wet at this point, I’m underneath the car. We [00:53:00] basically ripped the shroud out from underneath cause it had jammed itself into the serpentine belt. keeping the car from wanting to start because it was locking up the peripherals. Got all that figured out, again, because we knew it was, the water was starting to rise, so I took the long way around as we were leaving, following in Dan’s wake, because he’s kind of breaking, breaking the flood with his truck.

I wasn’t the only one to say this, because the Crutchfields were there too, we actually saw your car lift, and the back end was floating, and the only thing keeping it in place was the motor. Because

John Wade: it wasn’t in the same parking spot we left it.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct. Because it’s floating when we left and all of us looked at each other.

We’re like, I don’t know how to get all the Steve. This is going to be ugly. But we also need to figure out how to get out of here.

John Wade: You don’t

Steve Wade: want to

John Wade: get

Steve Wade: older, Steve.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’t

Steve Wade: tell him whatever you did and nothing he can do. So that’s why Noah didn’t have his boat because he was using my bloody car. So yeah, next, next morning we get there

Crew Chief Eric: and it’s full of water and it’s shit everywhere.

Where the flasher still on because that [00:54:00] was the funniest part as the car was floating the hazard lights were just

Steve Wade: The battery was dead Yeah, there was dead fish all over the place because it all been electrocuted but the battery I said it was

Crew Chief Eric: so after the great So that that ruined your weekend. Let’s let’s say that

Steve Wade: Yeah.

Well, it’s not John’s, I should point out. John’s like, well, so do you. I’m taking the Focus out. That’s running fine. My Focus

John Wade: was in the trailer, completely dry.

Steve Wade: Yeah, that was lucky.

John Wade: Yeah, the flood, right. I mean, so why am I worried about his motor? I mean, I’ve got track time to get. That’s great.

Steve Wade: That’s what privately loves you for.

John Wade: Absolutely. I mean, I love So, as the time’s gone by, little tribute to that little car, time’s gone by, Steve is, um, distressed to some degree about this situation. So, he starts pulling things out of the car and he’s using all sorts of language I haven’t heard since I was a very small child. It’s Walter Gush.

He opens the doors, and Walter Gush is out of the car.

Steve Wade: Yeah, sorry. Yeah.

John Wade: His feet were wet. So, [00:55:00] I’m like, that’s a bit annoying. So, he’s pulling out stuff, and then he decides And he, by the way, he’s putting it in everybody’s way, but he’s just ripping stuff. He’s getting, pulling carpet out of carpet, soaking wet.

And he gets in, and I look at him, and I go, What do you want to do, Steve? You know, what are you going to do with a mower? He said, I don’t know. I said, put the key in it. He says, go on, I said, put the key in it. So, he puts the key in it. We charge the battery, he turns the key, and it starts! No! It shot three foot columns of water out of his head!

It looked like two bloody bushes, all the water got in it, and he drove it. God, that thing would not give up.

Crew Chief Eric: But that wasn’t the fucking plague either. There’s another one after that that involves Yeah,

John Wade: yeah, yeah, yeah, he ain’t done yet.

Steve Wade: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: no,

Steve Wade: he ain’t done yet. So, uh, but this one’s kind of, kind of the cause.

I’ll bring the car home and, you know, soak him wet. And by the way, there is a, um, mark on the side of the car. HWM, high water mark. And it is about 15 and a half inches off the ground. It is, it, it, there was a lot of water.[00:56:00]

So anyway, so about a week later, I’m sitting in the house here, and my wife comes down, she goes, come upstairs, come upstairs, come upstairs, come and see. So you know, I said, okay, fine. So I go upstairs, go into the front of the house there, just above where the car is, and there is a swarm of bees that you cannot see through.

It is, you know, I don’t know, about 20 feet across, about 10 feet high. Just bees. Thousands and thousands of bees. I mean, that’s it. You know, the apocalypse. The world is coming to an end. We’re done. That’s all three now. I’ve had fire, flood, and now pestilence. And they went into, at the eaves of our house, the queen did, and they made a nest in our house.

That was the, uh, that’s all the trifecta of the, uh, pestilences. Okay, so that car is biblical. It’s absolutely

Crew Chief Eric: biblical. There’s no good ways about it. So after sacrificing a lamb over the hood of it, Or the bonnet, rather.

John Wade: Dripping blood on the roof, yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, has that seemed to calm the demonic powers of the mini, or is there something more to [00:57:00] this story?

Steve Wade: Yep, yep, let me, let me show you a picture because I think you’ll enjoy this, this particular picture. No, it’s not funny. Hold on a minute. Just bear with me. Talk amongst yourself for a little bit. And for the listeners,

Crew Chief Eric: and for the listeners, we’ll post this on the, uh, the show notes, so.

John Wade: Yeah, you see where those tires are?

Yeah? Steve, tell them what was where those tires are now.

Steve Wade: A jersey wall was there seconds before that because on Sunday at Dominion, I wrecked it. And you can’t quite see it there, but yeah, I hit that tire wall, hit the tire wall, tire wall hit the jersey wall, the jersey wall got Pushed about six foot down the hill and tipped over that I am afraid is pretty much the end of that poor car

John Wade: looking for another

Steve Wade: Really

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I don’t think your next car should be a mini at all.

Steve Wade: I think you’re right I’m, i’m thinking something much more, uh, you know apocalyptic, you know, maybe a [00:58:00] firebird perhaps or something like that, you know a triumph Dodge beeman

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, you gotta

Crew Chief Brad: embrace, you embrace the demon.

Crew Chief Eric: Maybe it’s, maybe it’s the color, like you need to get away from the red. You know, something more subtle like black.

You know, that’s not a demonic color in any way. So, you know,

John Wade: just

Crew Chief Eric: gotta change the pace, right? But actually this is a good segment, planning your third generation of minis, right? Is it really at the top of the list or are you considering something different?

Steve Wade: Why I’m looking at minis is because I’ve got so many spare parts now.

I might as well just put it all back together again. I got seats, I got roll bars, I got superchargers, I’ve got gear boxes. I’ve got so many bits and pieces that if I don’t get another mini, that stuff’s all just useless. That’s why I’m going for minis first. That stuff will sell on

Crew Chief Brad: racing junk.

Steve Wade: Yeah, that may be what happens, I don’t know yet, but we’ll see.

That’s what he dropped on

John Wade: the

Steve Wade: thread,

John Wade: racing junk.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ll pose the [00:59:00] question this way, if If you didn’t have to worry about what it cost and you just wanted to buy a track car, start from scratch, get rid of the minis, gut reaction, what would it be?

Steve Wade: I think, you know, running maybe a Spec Miata or something like that would be a lot of fun. It’s easy to work on, it’s a blast, they’re little small cars, so, you know, that could be fun, I think.

Mate, he’s old! Ah, he’s a glutton. He’s a glutton for punishment. Exactly. Only if money’s no object, I don’t care if I bring it up, right? And apparently I don’t care if I bring it up anyway. You

John Wade: just buy a box of Miatas.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what you do, right? I thought he was going to go, oh, I’m going to buy a 911 or something.

Just something totally off the wall, like money’s no object. So, let’s phrase it that way. If money was no object, top three cars in your three car garage, what would they be?

Steve Wade: E Type will be the first, without a doubt. That is the most beautiful car ever made. So, I’d definitely start with one of those. I think the McLaren MP2 is a hell of a car, too.

I think that would be fun. We [01:00:00] can park that next to it. Not too close, because we don’t want a mating or anything. So, that would be a good second car, I think. And then the third one, I don’t know. It’d have to be a classic of some kind. Some old, I don’t know. A full Capri would be kind of cool, wouldn’t it?

Maybe a Cortina. I thought you were gonna say a Hillman

John Wade: Imp. Oh yeah!

Steve Wade: Eric, Eric, the first car I ever personally owned, I told you the Capri was the least. The first car I ever owned was a Hillman Imp. God bless you. It got, it got 465 miles to the gallon. He’s taken it to the

John Wade: next level, doesn’t he? I mean, that’s where it’s gone.

Crew Chief Eric: This, this torch goes back many, many years, apparently. Yeah, oh yeah. So, John, if you had to add three bays to your existing garage, what would you put in there?

John Wade: I would. Uh, actually, there’s actually going to be several consistent drawers. So, and some of them already own, so it’s alright. So, any type, no doubt, right?

A Morgan Plus 8, already got one of those. The next one would be a four and a half [01:01:00] litre blown 1929 Bentley. from the Le Mans car. I mean, that is absolutely the epitome of a driver’s car. I mean, chain, drive, gears that you actually have to move, handbrake over there, you know, got timing on the steering wheel.

Yeah. What a mower and sound. Oh my God. There’s nothing that sounds like that mower. I think if you went, yeah, John, you got to come into like sort of nearly the 21st century. I think I’d have to tell you an Audi R8. Which is an absolutely fair. Yeah,

Steve Wade: yeah, that’s a good car.

John Wade: And then if I just had enough room a McLaren

Steve Wade: 720s.

Oh yeah, good, good choice, yeah. I want his, I want his cars next to the ones I chose. They’re good cars. You just borrow his or just? Nah, he’s selfish. He wouldn’t let me drive him. He’s terrible that way.

John Wade: I’m not lending him shit. I wouldn’t lend him a car. He’ll

Crew Chief Eric: come back burnt. So let me flip back for a second.

If now, with all of your guys experience, all these years wrench turning and competing and [01:02:00] the laughs and everything that goes along with it and the curses as well, what advice would you give somebody that’s just now starting out in this discipline? Don’t! Don’t do

John Wade: it! Now, first things first, mate. Go get yourself, from some source, a wheelbarrow load of money.

Where you need to start. The best way to make a small fortune in motorsports, as we all know. It’s the start of a big one.

Steve Wade: First thing I would do is say, go learn how to drive. Don’t even worry about your car. Just go learn how to drive. Just go to some schools. Start off, you know, figuring out what happens when you get a car going fast and you get momentum changes and all that kind of good stuff.

Because that will hold you throughout your racing career, whatever it turns out to be. The car will fly. You’ll get good cars. You’ll drive faster cars. You’ll do better and better. But if you don’t get the nut behind the wheel nice and tight, you’ll be forever chasing yourself.

John Wade: The thing you can chase fastest, the cheapest, that will make you go the [01:03:00] fastest is you.

I will tell you this bit of advice. Get a good crew chief and I’ll tell you why. No unsupervised racing ever. When I hit the wall at Barber, I was on my own. When Brother Steve hit the wall at Dominion, he’s on his own. Ever go out on your own. Never do that. Have adult supervision for our childish behavior.

Crew Chief Eric: That is sage advice, if there ever was one. So I a hundred percent agree when we are all together, you know, as a larger group, that’s part of, you know, we talked about that in episode two, where we come to each other’s rescue, it’s the premise of break fix. I mean, it’s not the, the whole theme of what we talk about here.

And obviously we don’t want to portray racing as a big crash fest. I mean, things happen, they’re mechanical. Failures to your point earlier, the race cars, and even the track prepared cars, because there are very different full on race cars versus track prepared cars. They’re under such extreme stresses that you would never encounter the engineering failures that we [01:04:00] encounter on the street.

So I don’t want to dissuade anybody from trying it. You know, we we’ve tried our best in the previous episode to talk about what it’s like your first time out and to advocate for people to try it with the cars. They have, I don’t want them to run away scared, but there’s life lessons to be learned here.

The harder you push, like in any sport, if you were a runner, a marathon runner, if you’re a football player, there’s always the risk of injury. There’s always the risk of something going wrong. The harder you push and the more you reach for that trophy or reach for that goal. So, you know, that’s, it’s very sage advice at the end of the day.

John Wade: Well, I’ll tell you, Eric, you know, it’s a lot different. Getting hit dead smack in the face by a 300 pound linebacker than it is letting your piece of metal hit the wall for you.

Crew Chief Eric: This is very true. I feel much more at ease, you know, hitting something than getting hit by something. I’ll put it that way.

John Wade: Yeah, don’t get in the motivation to lose weight. It don’t work.

Crew Chief Eric: Another valid point.

John Wade: For me personally. The goal of getting in the [01:05:00] car was improvement. Now, I don’t really yet know what that means. And I’m deadly serious there. There isn’t an end to that, right? Because success is a journey, not a destination. Every time, every lap, every track, you learn something. And you challenge yourself harder and harder and harder.

And you get more and more dissatisfied with yourself. And then when you hit that good lap, that one good one out of the 57 that sucked. Is well worth the effort it is in and of itself its own reward And especially if you’re not racing high dollar staffing, we don’t obviously you’re not that worried if you bend it I mean other than you know, if you get hurt, so that isn’t a worry on your mind You’re not worried about a bunch of snapper heads and grandmas going the other way while you’re trying to avoid a pothole Your same way same day with like minded people who are trying to improve and learn and compete against each other.

And that is, in and of itself, its own reward. The one thing that sharpens you the most is competition. It doesn’t matter what level that is, whether it’s solo, [01:06:00] TT, road race, it doesn’t really matter. You’re gonna get better because you want to. You have to have that desire to get better. And you run across people in this sport, in this little amateur game that we play, some of whom are really pretty damn good at this.

And you can learn from them and try and go get them and there’s no greater reward, ask me how I know, than finally catching up that one guy who’s been a pain in your side ever since you’ve been doing this and watching him stick his little finger out the window. Your heart rate goes up, you puff up with pride, you know, you can hear yourself screaming on the recording at the end of the day.

To me, there’s no illusion. that we’re ever going to be pro racing drivers or even particularly good ones, but we’re going to be the best we can and get the most fun out of little cars as we possibly can while we’ve got the time and money to do it. And so it builds its own reward and you get more and more competitive, faster, more and [01:07:00] more desire to go a little faster.

The trouble is, where do you draw the line? Because, how fast do you want to go? How much money you got? I got 10 miles an hour if you got 10, 000 and so on and so on. So you just eventually have to set the bar, and realize what your expectations are for yourself. What your expectations are for the particular vehicle that you’re driving and then try and maximize and optimize everything you can within the box you just built.

If you can do that, you can walk away proud of yourself if you were 15th or first because you maximized what tools you had in your hand at that time to include yourself. And that’s, I think, one of the greatest rewards of motorsports of all.

Crew Chief Eric: I cannot agree more. That is, that is very well put.

Steve Wade: Advice for people getting into this, and then we’ve already said it, I think.

Yeah, it’s great for the mechanical side of it, right? And there’s a lot of cerebral effort into what it takes to get a car to run fast, and how you handle it, [01:08:00] and the driving techniques, and all that kind of good stuff. So there’s a lot of physical skill to it, as well as you can drive. You know, if you like working on cars, it’s a lot of fun doing that kind of stuff.

Actually,

John Wade: about GTM and I mean, no criticism to the guys down here, but when I’ve raced up with you guys, it’s a couple of things. Don’t be afraid to ask for help, for advice, for a wrench, for a beer. It doesn’t matter. Interact with those people and build a support group. Build a group of people who go racing with you, even if they’re not always there.

You know, so you’ve always got that with you. Like I said, whether they’re physically there or not, you know, it might be you’re gonna call up, Do you know somebody who’s got a serpentine belt for a 0 4 Mini? All of a sudden there’s a support group and one arrives at your doorstep. Just a thousand things.

If you isolate yourself, and like a lot of the guys who do autocross, just go, race, go. And they isolate themselves, you miss two thirds of the experience of actually going there. I think, you know, it’s great going [01:09:00] out on the track, great going fast, great, you know, setting fire to things and smashing walls.

That’s all good. But the best thing, I think, that I get out of it is one, spending time with my brother because we live so far apart. That’s awesome. And then, the evenings. Are generally just great. You swap stories, you tell bullshit, you drink beer, you have fun, you unwind. With a group of like minded people.

Whether they like you or not, at least they’re gonna hang out with you, you know? Ha ha ha

Crew Chief Eric: ha! As, as Brad says, you know, Friends are the family you choose. And it’s a very poignant theme within our organization. And, you know, it’s We’ve been very fortunate to pick up members like yourselves. You guys are great.

I mean, I always look forward to talking to you and hanging out. I know this year has been really tough for everybody with, with the pandemic and everything that’s going on. Tracks didn’t reopen until recently. We’ve had to postpone a bunch of our events. The cannonball is really still up in the air. We just now released.

The information about summer bash, you know, things of that nature. And it’s just been [01:10:00] tough. And you know, this is a great way for us to get together, but it’s not the same to your point is everybody getting together at the event and doing what they’re doing. And what’s really funny is maybe if you have telepathic powers, unlike the demonic powers of the mini, it was my way to kind of put us in top gear and talk about your experiences with the club.

And I know you’re a lot newer than some of the other members that we’ve interviewed, but I think you did a good way of kind of driving into that.

John Wade: Well, you’ve got to remember, Steve is the COVID 19 of the race track. We spend months and months until the rally opens up, and he shuts it down immediately.

First time.

Steve Wade: Yeah, that’s right. But the camaraderie of the groups is really the big value. John said it himself, you know, he and I have spent more time together as brothers in the last 15 years racing than we’d ever done. For the previous 15 years, and that’s just two brothers, right? Then there’s you guys, you know, we’ve met you, met the rest of the GTM group, every track you go to, someone knows you, or you know them, and they come up and, you know, they help you, you help them, you [01:11:00] bullshit for a little while.

One time on Shanny, there was one of the guys running a mini there and he over tightened his lug nuts and stripped them and sent his wheel into the woods. So they, um, towed his mini off and John and I basically jacked it up, fixed it, bought him a new wheel on and

John Wade: he went running again. By the way, I think it’s a bad thing to give yourself a point by.

I’m just saying.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, on that, gentlemen, I cannot thank you enough for spending all this time with us. I’m sure the people on the other end listening to this are going to be laughing their heads off. It’s always a great time with the Latin lads, with both the Wade brothers, incredible stories, and I can’t wait to see what the next plague is with the next red mini in the

John Wade: series.

And Meteorite.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

John Wade: One comedy is one. Greatest racing driver of all time. Eric, go. Santa. Steve.

Steve Wade: Sterling Moss.

John Wade: Ken Miles, sonny. Hey. Oh, that’s

Steve Wade: a good

Crew Chief Eric: choice. Yeah. Yeah. But on that note, it’s [01:12:00] time to end. Thank you guys.

John Wade: Thanks a lot.

Crew Chief Eric: See ya, Eric. See you at the track. See ya. Thanks, Brad. Yeah, take care, Brad.

John Wade: Take care, Brad.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at grandtouringmotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard and read from GTM? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going.

So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or [01:13:00] visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help.

Learn More

The MINI Curse Begins

Steve’s first racing MINI (seen below) was temperamental, and eventually mauled by a bear. “He ripped off the bumper cover and tried to mate with it,” Steve said. The culprit? Cocoa shell mulch in the trunk – chocolate-scented bait for Yogi. But this was just the start.

Watkins Glen: Fire and Flatbeds – At Watkins Glen, the MINI hit 137 mph before bursting into flames. John refused to pit. “I paid for this lap, Sonny!” Emergency crews flagged him down, pulled him from the car, and discovered flames shooting from the engine bay. His fire suit? Safely stored in the garage.
Shenandoah: Flood and Fury – After rebuilding the MINI, Steve brought it to Shenandoah – where it promptly flooded overnight. “The back end was floating,” Eric recalled. “The hazard lights were still blinking.” The next morning, the Mini started… and shot three-foot columns of water from the exhaust.
Pestilence and the Bee Swarm: A week later, a swarm of bees invaded Steve’s house. “Thousands of them,” he said. “That’s it. Fire, flood, and pestilence. The MINI is biblical.”
Dominion: The Final Blow – The MINI’s last stand came at Dominion Raceway, where Steve hit a tire wall so hard it moved a jersey barrier six feet. “That’s the end of that poor car,” he said. “I’m looking for another.”

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Beyond the fireballs and flatbeds, the Wade brothers found something deeper: time together. “We’ve spent more time racing in the last 15 years than we did in the previous 15,” John said. “And the evenings – swapping stories, drinking beer, unwinding with like-minded people—that’s the best part.”

**As Eric put it, “Friends are the family you choose.” And in the GTM community, the Latton Lads are family.**

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Chin Track Days: From Closed Gates to a National Movement

Gran T

August 20, 2020

Chin Track Days: From Closed Gates to a National Movement

On this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we sat down with Mark Hicks, Chief Operating Officer and Director of Chin Track Days, to uncover the origin story of one of the most respected names in high-performance driver education (HPDE). What began as a spontaneous act of motorsports passion has grown into a coast-to-coast calendar of track events that welcomes thousands of drivers each year.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

The Chin Track Days story starts in 1999 at Sebring International Raceway. A group of eager drivers, including Dr. Weishen Chin, arrived for a scheduled track day—only to find the gates locked. The organizer had failed to pay the rental fees. Rather than turning around, Dr. Chin sprang into action. He passed a hat, raised the funds, and negotiated with the track to open the gates. In that moment, Chin Motorsports was born.

When asked for a name to put on the rental agreement, Dr. Chin simply said, “Chin Motorsports.” That impromptu decision became the foundation for a brand that would evolve over the next two decades.

Mark Hicks joined the Chin team in 2004, leaving behind a 20-year career in the restaurant and hospitality industry. His transition from restaurateur to motorsports director was sparked by a shared love for the Acura NSX—a car that connected him with Dr. Chin and ultimately led to his leadership role.

Together with his wife Maria, a skilled driver and instructor, and CFO Vincent Howard, Mark helped scale Chin Track Days from five events and 600 entries in 2004 to over 115 track days and 7,500+ driver entries in 2020, even amid COVID-related cancellations.

Spotlight

Notes

Who/When/Where is CHIN?
How do you learn more, and register for CHIN events?
What is the CHIN HPDE program like? What expectations should a new student have coming into the classroom for the first time? How many students on track? What’s the student:instructor ratio?
Coaching with CHIN, and how to become a coach.
Track-Day Prep and unique policies of a CHIN Track Event
Does CHIN recommend that a student get Track Insurance before coming to an event?

and much, much more!

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everyone, crew chief, Eric here. And on this episode, we are honored to have Mark Hicks, the chief operating officer and director of chin track days with us on the show in our continuing effort to spread motor sports enthusiasm. We want to explore the chin origin story. A history that goes back 21 years in the making.

Though many GTM members have been fortunate to participate and coach in several Chin events over the last five years, including places like Pit Race, Mid Ohio, Barber, Road Atlanta, Motorsports [00:01:00] Ranch, Indianapolis, and more, many might not know what Chin is all about. But we hope to remedy that in short order.

And with that, let’s welcome Mark to Break Fix.

Mark Hicks: Well, hello there, you guys. It’s definitely a pleasure for me to join you online, and I definitely appreciate the invitation. to, uh, be a part of your program and say hello to your audience. So, thanks for letting

Crew Chief Eric: me join in. Absolutely, Mark. So, let’s get into it.

How about we start off by you telling us about Chin, the who, the when, the where, and explain the brand name.

Mark Hicks: You know, great topic, of course, that has come up before, right? If you’ve been to Chin Track Days uh, events over the years, you’ve seen, uh, me often. And then Maria, who is also my better half, and with me, uh, one of the founders of Chin Track Days.

But, what is the deal with Chin? So, there’s a man named Chin, [00:02:00] and he’s my partner. And he is the original founder, the guy behind the very first ever, then, Chin Motorsports event, which, uh, took place at Sebring. In 1999, Dr. Chen, he was an enthusiast and a sports car owner and he, along with a number of other drivers who were signed up to participate in the same event, all arrived the day of the event, lined up at the gate, and guess what?

The gates never opened. And Dr. Chen went to the front of the line and talked to the track official and was like, hey, what’s up? We’re supposed to have a track event. And he said, yeah, those guys, they never paid their track rental fees. Unfortunately, this little cottage industry of track days has a number of stories like that of operators that had good intentions, perhaps, and intended to carry on a track event.

Well, it didn’t bear fruit. This was one of those days and Dr. Chen turned back to the track official and he said, well, what’s it going [00:03:00] to take to pay those fees and get these gates open? He quickly pulled the others there, and a hat was passed, a kitty was raised, the fee was paid, and the gates opened at Sebring on that day, and the first Chin Motorsports event took place.

Dr. Chin standing there, making these arrangements on the fly. I think if you rewind, uh, in time, if you’ve been a track enthusiast, uh, anybody out there for some time, you might recognize that 20 plus years ago, the setting of doing track events is somewhat different than it might be today. So the track was receptive to getting somebody to pay the track rental and opening the gates and letting them walk right in under those conditions, but of course they needed The name.

They said, okay, great. Entity renting the track. And he went, uh, well, uh, Chin Motorsports. That is the name that we [00:04:00] carried for a very long, long, long time and built. But come along in 2016, we began to have the awareness that kind of across the space that we were in. Chin Motorsports ended up being kind of ambiguous, okay?

That’s a tag that, you know, did we service cars? Are we a racing team? Are we a used car lot? What do we do? So we rebranded from Chin Motorsports to Chin Track Days, which of course gives a quite a bit more specific indication of what we’re doing, but that was the beginning of Chin Motorsports. And there’s one more principal, a man named Vincent Howard.

He is our CFO and the guy who, uh, Pays our bills, pays our staff, and manages all the, uh, financial activity. Vincent is the third principal of Chin Track Days. Our small startup gained momentum and do more [00:05:00] track events and have more drivers participate with us eventually. Reached a scale to where Dr. Chen, who has a large and, uh, successful medical practice in Orlando, it reached the point where he was running out of bandwidth to keep up with all the demands of Chen Motorsports.

And at the time, uh, I was in restaurants. That’s what I did before motorsports, thank goodness. I, uh, was able to leave a 20 year career in food and beverage and hotel and restaurant hospitality, which in Chen Asked me to take over Chen Motorsports and run the operations full time, manage all of our track events.

And that was all the way back in 2004. And I have been the director of and, and kind of at the top of the pyramid of Chen Motorsports ever since then. My wife Maria, pivotal role, a highly accomplished driver and instructor [00:06:00] and began to grow our calendar. Beyond the boundaries that just a team of two could manage to where we had the necessity for additional staff and that, of course, also led us to be able to actually expand our capacity, adding more events and all of that, beginning about 2014 15.

The past five plus years have been really expansive for chin track days. And today, 2020, what an, what an odd year, obviously, like everybody out there who was, uh, running track events or trying to go to track events, or even if you manage a racetrack, we all had a bunch of cancellations. In the spring, March, April, May, so we lost some events then, but the full calendar, uh, we began the year with 60 event dates on the 2020 schedule at 17 different venues, most of which are the greatest hits list of [00:07:00] road course racetracks in the eastern U.

S. We, we reach as far west as Circuit of the Americas in Austin. Anybody out there that’s, uh, paid attention to Chin, you probably Uh, are aware already. We’re not in California. We don’t do anything west of Texas, but in the eastern U. S., we’ve got almost every track that really has, uh, great meaning to enthusiasts.

You will find it on the Chin Track Day schedule. Sixty calendar dates this year, about a hundred and fifteen days on track. And by the time We finished 2020. Well, COVID cancellations included, we’ll see about 7, 500 driver entries in 2020. That’s where we are today. And from the very first event at Sebring, that was about 60 drivers.

And when I took over, Full time operations management in 2004, we [00:08:00] had five track events scheduled at three locations, and we had about 600 total driver entries in 2004, and this year that number will be, it would be about 9, 000. Without COVID cancellation loss, you know, so if you just try and compare apples to apples, that’s, uh, that’s where we’ve come over the last 20 years.

The short story is, there is a man named Chen, and he is my partner, and he’s still around, often seen with us at Sebring, he doesn’t travel as much as he once did. But since he’s Orlando based, he’s certainly very fond of going to our Sebring events, which are very frequent. Uh, we’re the number one provider of track events at Sebring.

We were just at Sebring last weekend. Our next Sebring date is only three weeks away. So it’s, uh, Sebring is kind of home track, the home field for Weishen Chen showing [00:09:00] up at Sebring pretty regularly. A big, uh, bucket full of background, but You know, there is a man named Chin, and I sure am glad, uh, that he had the initiative on, uh, that original day standing at the closed gate at Sebring

Crew Chief Eric: to get this track event done.

You’re a big personality at Chin, not just in the fact that you’re, you’re the director, but you’re at a lot of the events and most people see you, well, they hear you first over the microphone and over the PA, but then you have your signature fedora, right? Which is, it’s also part of your email signature, et cetera.

But I think just to get to know you, Mark, the car enthusiast, a little bit better. We’ve recently done some episodes where we ask people about this mythical garage. mythical island. You know, if they could have any three cars on that island, what would it be? So Mark, what would your three cars be? Oh, wow.

Well,

Mark Hicks: I appreciate that. By the way, Eric, the, uh, my wide brim hat quite [00:10:00] familiar. It’s in the trailer, right? It stays in the trailer prepared to go to the track. I would share it with your audience, but it’s not in my hands right now. I tell you what, I think the Mazda Miata is one of the all time, great sports cars.

It’s on my list. It’s just pound for pound what Mazda did to create accessibility. At the time the Miata got introduced, right? Uh, early 90s. Drive a quote sports car. You needed to have a bunch of money Mazda Pushed down that wall with the introduction of the miata and made owning a sports car Accessible to an everyday enthusiast, but it’s not just the price the balance of that car the proportions of that car How the cockpit works.

I love Miatas. But the other side of that is, uh, it’s actually also a little side note of the chin origin story. All of the chin principles, uh, mentioned Dr. Weishen Chin, [00:11:00] myself and my wife, and my third partner, Vincent Howard. Every one of us owns an NSX. And We have a vintage NSX, each of us, and collectively, we own a brand new NSX, an NC1, the supercar.

You also recall, uh, earlier in our conversation, I mentioned a previous life, I’ll say, in hotel and restaurant hospitality, food and beverage, was successful enough in that career that I bought an NSX, while I was a restaurant owner. That introduced me to Wei Shin Chin, because he was an NSX owner, pretty small community.

We did a track event together. At the time, I still owned restaurants. Today, I have the, the, the gratifying privilege to lead one of the largest track day operators in the U. S. And it’s because I bought an NSX. So an NSX makes my list, not the new one, because The vintage original NSX, [00:12:00] I can strip down, disassemble, and reassemble pretty much like a blindfold, like a well trained Marine with an AR.

That’s how I feel about the vintage original NSX. And then, you know, what did you say? Three? Three. You got two. What’s your third? I have a forever lifetime soft spot. For the special lines of, uh, a late sixties 67 or 68 Ferrari 3 6 5 Daytona spider with the roof down and Barron wire wheels with a three and a half liter V 12 and six Webers a nightmare to keep running.

But for me personally, right, everybody’s got their own subjective scale of what is one of the most beautiful cars ever for me.

Crew Chief Eric: Daytona spider. Is it by chance in black and are you living out of miami vice fantasy? I just want to It would be [00:13:00] red with camel seats, of course

Mark Hicks: Very

Crew Chief Eric: good, very good

Mark Hicks: so And and if I was alone in a desert island, and those are my three cars The ferrari would stay parked and I would drive the ns6 and the miata There you go.

The desert island has

Crew Chief Eric: an unlimited supply of fuel doesn’t it? 100 percent. Absolutely And coconuts apparently So there’s a lot to unpack there, Mark. So let me ask another question, and please don’t take offense. You may have not heard this phrase before with reference to Chin, but you guys are often referred to as the traveling circus.

It has a lot to do with your schedule and has a lot to do with how Chin moves around the country. So can you explain how that works? And what I’m alluding to here is that you guys are not a franchise. So it makes you very unique in the fact that Chin moves from location to location when you talk about 60 different venues in a year.

That’s a lot. So do you want to elaborate on that a little [00:14:00] bit?

Mark Hicks: Uh, you know, great question. I appreciate the perception that you have there to, to see what it is that we do in that way. Uh, we, we certainly We refer almost internally ourselves. We call it a bit of a circus as well. You know, there’s a couple of keys there.

First of all, I got a seriously highly committed, very capable staff, you know, that I can never give enough credit to. They are fantastic. Our event management team are all autonomous. They have the same kind of commitment. To superior track events and a heart in the whole hobby because they are in their core sports car enthusiasts themselves.

They didn’t just sign up to earn a paycheck by working for chin. They signed up because they love doing track events. And it turned out that they thought it was miraculous that they could also get paid to do that. So [00:15:00] the staff is what makes it possible. First thing, and then. I’ll tell you, one of our master keys, here in my glamorous setting, you see exposed to duct work, what have you, I’m in my man cave, the basement, at what we call Global Headquarters, which is eight miles from the driveway of Road Atlanta.

So, Road Atlanta features heavily in our schedule. I call Sebring our home turf, it was the original Chin Track Days event. And Sebring is on the Chin Calendar 14 times a year. That’s how much we love Sebring. But Road Atlanta is second only to Sebring where it wrote Atlanta nine times a year. When we do road Atlanta dates, nobody travels.

It’s hardly far enough away to warm up my twin turbo diesel under the hood of my Ford F 450. That’s how far it is to road Atlanta for me. I can literally, [00:16:00] when I’m here at home, I can hear the wonderful noise. From rhode atlanta. I am not a complaining neighbor. Let me assure you So that’s part of our secret there because a rhode atlanta date, which is when you when you suck it out of our calendar It’s 15 percent of all of our dates occur at Road Atlanta.

I think enthusiasts all know by now, if you go to the track on a regular basis, there’s a, there’s quite a few hard things that we all have to tackle to make a track event a success, whether we’re the provider or you’re the participating enthusiast, there’s a bunch of work that has to get done for you to get.

to and participate successfully in the track event. And one of the hardships that we all face is the travel. We’re all attracted and we find it compelling enough that, hell yes, we’ll drive four or five hundred miles, three, four states away to go to Whatever fantastic racetrack is on the menu for the weekend, but now you’ve [00:17:00] given up friday and monday You know, that’s a time away from work or family and the travel requires that commitment And it’s possible but i’ll deny it if you if any authorities ask me that Untagged track only vehicles have been driven from my shop On the street, that’s hypothetical.

It’s that we’re close enough that that could be done if you had to In the dark at dawn. That’s

Crew Chief Eric: possible. So with that being said, I mean, let’s take away. All right. 30 or 40 percent of the year being, you know, Sebring in Rhode Island. That’s still a lot of events. I mean, when it’s not a covert year, the chin track schedule is pretty much year round from the way I’ve looked at it, which is, which is amazing.

And, and, and to your point about traveling, um, You know, we’ve gone upwards of 850 miles to go to a chin event in the past, you know, traveling to Barber and other locations. So it’s not a hop, skip and a jump for those of us here in the D. C. area. But still, as we talk more about getting more familiar, the [00:18:00] guys that know how to get into a chin event, they know where to go and they know what to do and they know the process.

But explain to the newbie, you know, how do I find a chin event? Am I going to Motorsports Reg? Is my buddy signing up for me? How is that process done and what does it entail to get signed up for a chin event?

Mark Hicks: You know, appreciate you asking that, really. Because, uh, I’d love to try and give some clarity that Chin Track Days always, uh, has our own stand alone website.

Um, Motorsports Reg is a great product and a very useful tool for enthusiasts nationwide. And we post calendar listings on Motorsports Reg if you want to see. What is the date of the next, the next chin event? You can certainly find us listed there, but it will say, please visit our website, chin track days.

com for driver registration, sign up, et cetera. But, uh, chin motorsports. com as a website and a registration predated motorsports reg by a, by a solid five [00:19:00] years. And today we maintain our own and update regularly our standalone website, which has. Really, it’s a comprehensive internet destination for track enthusiasts.

Of course, you can find the full chin schedule and driver registration, etc. You know, to get into an upcoming chin event. But you’ll also find a comprehensive description. Uh, driver skill benchmarks, our run group format, uh, tons of pages on just great, uh, tips for any enthusiasts, how to prep your car, what to do to, you know, prepare to spend the weekend away from home to go to the track, uh, a guide for new enthusiasts, comprehensive guides to all the tracks that we visit, et cetera, all of that can be found on ChinTrackDays.

com and that is all original content. Where, uh, we collaborate either in house with our own team or talk to experts who are

Crew Chief Eric: part of the CHIN program. [00:20:00] And one of the things I don’t think people realize, and we joke about this when we’re trying to get people really engaged to come out for the first time, it’s always register early and register often.

And one of the things that is unique about CHIN’s registration process is you guys only open registration, I believe, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, it’s about two weeks before the event. Is actually set to go off and you got to get in line early because those tickets sell out quick. I mean, they are super popular events.

So I can’t reiterate enough register early and register often, but pay attention and set reminders because I’ve been on some of those events were within 20 minutes. It’s almost sold out. That’s fair to say. I will.

Mark Hicks: I will address that. The lead time is is longer, but we do that. Yeah. Very specifically on a predictable scheduled cycle, and that is once a week on Monday evenings 9 p.

m. Eastern, whatever is eight weeks downstream on the calendar will go [00:21:00] online. And so, for example, right now you can visit our website and see dates running through September and into October. It’s all online. You can register for October events, and we always limit Novice driver registration for the entry level drivers.

Of course, we do one on one student and instructor pairings. You want to limit the number of drivers there so you can hopefully ensure a very high quality driver experience, but you also rely on your instructor population, of course, to do the one to one student and instructor pairings. So we have to limit our novice enrollment.

We opened that VIR registration this past Monday night. With 15 available novice driver entries, at 9. 07, we were sold out. And today, now three days into registration, we have over 80 entries on the VIR date, which will have a cap of about [00:22:00] 110 entries. So it’s 65 plus percent already sold three days into registration.

And of course, if we continue on that pace, The October date at VIR, now eight weeks into the future, will be fully sold out by next week, seven weeks in advance. It’s very fortunate that there is that demand out there. I definitely give a hat to to the enthusiast population who were all very frustrated by the COVID closure in the spring months.

And since the tracks reopened and we got into the controlled mitigated space, you can’t say fully safe, you know, COVID. is out there, it’s a problem, but the track operators were able to be persuasive with the public health authorities and their local governments to the extent that they began to recognize, okay, we’re in an outdoor space, you can spread out across a 10 or 15 acre [00:23:00] paddock, we’re not doing group gatherings, and so, The COVID restrictions got lifted on the racetracks.

As long as we weren’t doing large scale spectator events, of course, that’s still not happening. But, you know, you can get 100, 150 sports car enthusiasts into a paddock and spread them out widely. And, you know, we’ve taken certain other steps. Gotta cover your face. Bottom line there is, we got into this set of conditions that enthusiasts felt like the risk was controlled in a reasonable way to the extent that they felt like they could go to the track and enjoy laps without being at risk of becoming ill with COVID.

And the enthusiasts came back strongly from end of May, June, July, our summer schedule. We’ve seen very solid support. And heading into fall, we’re just talking about the strong demand primarily for that VIR day. That’s one of our peak flagship events. But, you know, we’re also at Searing Watkins Glen. Uh, Road Atlanta, Circuit of [00:24:00] the Americas are all on our fall schedule as well, and enthusiasts have really embraced that, and I’m really optimistic and very grateful for the very strong response we continue to see.

But you’re right, for the most popular flagship dates, we will see registration. Demand that creates really rapid sellouts when we start taking entries on Monday nights at 9 p. m But I’d love to say that we can sell out each and every single event that doesn’t happen not by any means, you know We could say like a popular restaurant your flagship dates.

You’re filling up friday saturday nights every table occupied I want to wait to get a table. We’re still doing dinner monday through thursday. So certainly Want enthusiasts to uh, be optimistic That uh, you don’t always have to nail it at 9 p. m Monday night now you do if you’re a novice driver. I will admit if you’re new to the track hobby.[00:25:00]

I cannot overemphasize The necessity to be online night, nine p. m. Right wh to ensure that you can ge limited novice entries, m row seats for the rolling like

Crew Chief Eric: that. And it reminds of, you know, getting tha auction on ebay, like you top of your game or it wa But since we’re talking a

Chin’s HPD program. And I do want to differentiate and I’m not trying to call out any other, you know, competitors or any other people that are in the market space, but Chin is in the column of HPD only unless, you know, you guys have developed a racing program that we didn’t know about, unlike some other organizations that do DE to supplement their racing programs and things like that.

So you’re very fortunate to be very focused. on education, which is important to us here at GTM. So what we want to talk about is what expectations should a new student have [00:26:00] coming into the classroom at Chin for the first time, you’ve already mentioned how many students on track and the instructor ratio and things like that.

But let’s talk a little bit about the education program that you guys have put together and anything that’s unique about that. Thanks, Eric, for asking,

Mark Hicks: man, you have done your homework and I appreciate that. You are absolutely right. No, I don’t have. A super special secret hidden competition program. Uh, there is no club racing at chin and that enables us to say chin track days.

There is no competition. Think about that. But our emphasis for sure is the track day driver. We’ve recognized a long time ago that there are more hobby enthusiasts with high performance street cars. That want to make laps then there are race car drivers now We’ve got a place for race car drivers if you’ve ever been to a chin of it You have seen some fully prepared competition cars doing testing and practice But the the racers like that [00:27:00] because they don’t have to worry About you know serious tech scrutiny or running Untried stuff that may not be in rules compliance with their class that kind of thing.

They can do whatever they want At a chin event as long as their car is safe and the driver is following the chin format So we’ll see plenty of competition cars, but over and over and over Uh, there’s far more high performance street cars, and that’s where we see the heart of our market, for sure. Club racing has great merit, and I have nothing but kudos to those who are committed to competition.

Uh, it’s definitely a different path, uh, than what we’re doing, but we know that there are a lot of enthusiasts out there. Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Porsches, Acuras, Ferraris, you name it, BMWs of course, and any other brand you can think of that can be associated with performance, they all end up showing up at Chin Track Day’s [00:28:00] events.

And there are more cars in this category in the hands of enthusiasts than there are race cars out there. It has very fortunately been validated by our own business model over all these many years that in fact the people who own these cars are interested in coming out and making laps and getting advanced driver coaching and we certainly have been putting an emphasis on the DE.

In, uh, HPDE for a very long time, we’ve got a staff of veteran instructors. It’s often said that an instructor will get qualified with Chin Track Days last. There are new instructors with Chin Track Days. That is, they’re new to Chin Track Days, but they are not new instructors. Instructors to be eligible to get on the Chin Track Days instructor team You must already have preexisting instructor [00:29:00] experience, so you won’t see any new brand new instructors in our program.

Crew Chief Eric: For all the aspiring coaches out there or the coaches that, you know, have put your time in the trenches and you’re looking forward to coaching with Chin after hearing this whole conversation, please note it is a little bit skull and bones where you’re expecting that secret invitation to be slid under your door because I don’t think you just walk up to Mark and say, Hey, I want to coach with Chin.

You have to be invited in. To the kind of inner coven there. And again, it’s on a track by track basis. And I’m not trying to poke fun, but that’s the experience that I went through where it was like, knock, knock, knock, knock, knock, knock. Hey, we need you for NJMP. And then once you were in, you were in, and then you had to qualify for tracks independently, et cetera.

And again, it’s been a rewarding experience. So I just want to highlight that before you get a bum rush of people going, Hey, when can I coach for chin?

Mark Hicks: You know, that You know, that is awesome, Eric, but I’ll certainly add that we welcome instructor [00:30:00] applications from well seasoned instructors all the time and in fact On the home page of our website, you know, the the things that are prominent is the track schedule upcoming events, etc But scroll down the page drivers, you will see instructor criteria and instructor eligibility fortune track days and if you are A seasoned instructor and you have completed a known instructor school.

One of the, there’s a number of really well established structured instructor training programs. If you’ve been through one of those, um, a NASA, a PCA, a BMW club, but then of course, kind of the master key. Motorsports Safety Foundation MSF level 2 status. That is almost going to be automatic entry into Chin Track Day’s instructor status track specific.

You are correct, Eric, that we want a driver [00:31:00] to have Known experience on a lap before they show up to coach that lap, but we do recognize existing established instructor qualifications from other well known track day providers that have structured instructor training. But yes, it is also true that once you are accepted to instructor eligibility, which in track days, that driver is then eligible to instruct at any track where they have prior existing experience.

And so we welcome that. That’s right. I’m ready to instructed Barbara next time. We’re good. That is fantastic. Out of our entire, um, kind of the population of enthusiasts that follow Chin Track Days, and today if you join as a new member today in, uh, August of 2020, You’ll have a member number in the range of like 24, 000 and something.

So over the years, we’ve given instructor eligibility to over 2, [00:32:00] 400 different, highly experienced drivers across the country that, uh, support chin track days and always hats off. To the instructors who are at the heart of the track day hobby. Thank you very much. Whether you instruct for chin or not, if you are a qualified instructor and you regularly give your time to the track hobby to show up and share your experience with a less experienced driver, I thank you personally.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, thank you, Mark, for saying that. I appreciate that. Uh, having, having instructed now for, okay, I’ve lost track of the years, but, but thank you. And I’ll say that on behalf of everybody that’s listening as well. And all the folks in GTM that have coached for Chin and coach for other organizations. But let’s step back to the training for a second.

I think there’s a couple of things that are very unique to Chin that I want to, I want you to kind of unpack for the listeners. That being the way you guys do your orientation laps. I think the way you split up your novice and your solo novice, and in addition to that I think the flag test would be something interesting to [00:33:00] talk about.

I think our listeners would also be interested to hear about your tech process because that’s really important to a lot of the newbies as well.

Mark Hicks: Sure thing, thanks Eric. So, so basically if you are the novice driver, you’re an entry level driver, you love your high performance street car, and you want to learn how to drive it well because of course making laps is not a natural skill.

Many folks who own high performance cars aren’t fully acquainted with that, but there’s a great difference between being qualified to buy an expensive high performance car and being qualified to make laps in it. Everybody out there who’s an enthusiast has heard stories about brand new owners of brand new sports cars who left the dealer and never made it home, crashed the car.

Because they’re intoxicated with, you know, 0 to 60, 3 second times, and 160 mile an hour top speeds. And you just, you know, you want to get sideways every [00:34:00] time you turn right. And you end up all in big trouble. Instead, we want you to come to the track, get acquainted with one of our veteran instructors, and get some very intensive, committed coaching on high performance driving techniques, vehicle preparation, vehicle dynamics, car control, track safety, and generally the conditioning of the fantastic hand eye foot coordination that an accomplished driver must acquire.

And we’ve got the staff, we’ve put the emphasis on that for a driver. who is participating with Chintrac Days, if they’re new to the hobby, they’re not going to have an option to sign up as a solo driver. We require an entry level driver to work with an instructor. You don’t get the opportunity to just go start randomly making laps and let’s see how it goes.

That doesn’t work out. We look at it like [00:35:00] any kind of advanced skill set. that you’ve got to get qualified for. Maybe you want to go scuba diving. You’ve got to take classes. You work with an instructor diver and eventually you become a certified scuba diver. You get a C card. Diving is one of those hobbies.

Aviation. You can’t just go down and rent an aircraft at the local airport and go take off and land and do some sightseeing tours. You have to get lessons. And now while we’re all qualified to drive a car, Right? You’re carrying a driver’s license? Well, there you go. That says, I’m qualified to drive a car.

That doesn’t make a driver qualified to make laps. And that’s part of our education philosophy, to help folks understand that you don’t yet know what you don’t know about what it takes to make laps safely. And we want to introduce you to that, to where you get a breakthrough and you go, Oh, now I see what’s happening.

And now I want to work [00:36:00] with my instructor for longer and more because then you end up You spend less time having to learn the lap and more time going faster. The instructor is kind of a fast forward cheat to becoming a great driver. If y’all have been to the track on many occasions, you perhaps have heard someone say, you know, I really need to be solo.

I can get, if I get the instructor, you know, 200 plus pounds out of my right seat, I’m going to go faster. That is not A correct

Crew Chief Eric: assumption. It only applies on a Miata because they’re weight sensitive, but otherwise

Mark Hicks: that may be fair to say, but you certainly better know what to do with your Miata to get that right, to corner that car at 101 percent and use it from track edge to track edge and not leaving any unused pavement.

That’s how you run a Miata. I’m a big Miata fan. The chin track days. fleet includes [00:37:00] two

Crew Chief Eric: Miatas.

Mark Hicks: So

Crew Chief Eric: one of the great sports cars of all time, without a doubt. So going back to going back to something you said and from personal experience, I want to kind of shore up what you said there. So, I mean, I’ve had the pleasure of coaching for Chin at several different locations and I thought the process was really interesting and I I struggled with it kind of internally for a while because it is so disciplined in a way, but I came to appreciate it the more time I spent with Chin and the fact that there’s still a trust but verify within Chin that I found refreshing and important because no, we’re not just going to let you on track.

in the highest run group because you said so and you showed up with a car with a bunch of stickers on it. But the same was true of coaching. Had you not been to that track before, you couldn’t coach at that track until you got signed off. So there was still a vetting process even there, which I thought was really cool.

And again, I’ve been very fortunate to coach with Chin in the past, so it’s been a very rewarding experience overall.

Mark Hicks: Eric, that’s awesome. I, uh, [00:38:00] I so appreciate you, uh, taking a moment to make that comment there. And what, what that all goes back to is, if I can add to that, is our kind of safety culture. We have this really high commitment to mitigate risk.

Okay, your driver, whoever you are out there, novice up to 20 year veteran, you’ve made a choice to motorsports event. This is inherently risky. However, if you’ve got eyes wide open, And you’re paying careful attention to your environment. You can identify the risk. You can recognize them out here in front of you, and you can take deliberate steps to recognize and then mitigate.

The risk and that kind of goes hand in hand with this, uh, the trust, but verify as you point out, and if we can eliminate the variables of those potential risks that perhaps are subject to [00:39:00] our influence, whether it’s the chin staff or other well seasoned instructors who are part Of the event where we can recognize and mitigate risk.

We want to do all that we can to take those variables out of the equation so that the driver one is going to increase their focus so they don’t have to give attention. To these other things that might be occurring that create, shall we say, background noise. We want to reduce that from the driver load.

But then also, if you can identify and take steps to control the things that you actually can control, then you leave space in what’s happening. For the unexpected to occur and this of course Is something that it goes hand in hand with motorsports That you can’t control all the variables and that random and unexpected things will occur And so what we’re our deliberate intention now is [00:40:00] to try and create surplus bandwidth for the driver or instructor or advanced driver, especially whoever you are out there where you’re making laps and you think things are going right and you are well within the capability of your car and yourself as a driver, but something now random occurs.

A car ahead blows a tire, drops fluid, a squirrel runs out from the edge. You never know. And now, you’re equipped to address or respond to these unexpected conditions and hopefully end up with a safe outcome or at least no injury, right? Incidents do happen. We’ve all heard before, perhaps if you’ve been in the hobby for a while, that you’re probably at greater risk driving to the racetrack on the streets than you are actually making laps, you know, so that’s what we’re trying to [00:41:00] do with this disciplined, very conditioned and structured approach to how our run groups are organized, how our instructors provide coaching for entry level drivers, and what are the, uh, shall we say ladder steps For a driver to move from solo status to intermediate solo to advanced solo to instructor.

You know, that whole ladder where one skill set layers on the other to create this whole well rounded background for a seasoned, uh, experienced enthusiast who’s been in the track hobby for a while. That you reach a place. where making laps at nine tenths becomes kind of a conditioned muscle memory and you may have a moment.

You know, to, to pause and consider, you know, what’s that noise or what have you while you’re on the limit and you [00:42:00] recognize other things that are happening that are outside of your driver envelope because you’ve gotten very well conditioned. And that’s part of the risk management that we want to condition for drivers that participate with us because the driver that is comfortable and shall we say relaxed in their, in their driving environment.

is going to perform better than a driver who is under stress and uptight and has too much happening around them, but they can’t keep up with it all. That driver ends up making mistakes. And of course, mistakes at the track can lead to, you know, unexpected, unfortunate consequences. Absolutely. We’re going to unpack a little bit more of that here in a minute.

You’ve hit one of my favorite highlights, the warmup session. Every single Chin Track Days Doesn’t matter the location or the time, we will begin with a half hour period of standing yellow flag full course caution. And it has a [00:43:00] whole wide influence over many things at the track event. A warm up in general sounds like a good idea, right?

If you’re a very experienced driver, maybe you don’t need the track orientation, but you do need to shake down your car. Maybe you’ve recently serviced it. Maybe you need to get the brakes hot. Maybe you need to scrub the stickers off your tires. But if you are a brand new entry level driver, you get out on the track with your instructor in the right seat under yellow flag.

Now you don’t have to worry about managing traffic. There is no passing. And so the instructor can give their attention to the driver about track orientation, turn in apex, track out, here’s the break point, here’s the blind spot, look at that tree on the horizon, without the novice driver having to worry about what’s in their mirror or managed traffic at all.

It brings down the stress level. If you’re an experienced enthusiast, everybody who’s been to track events, you know [00:44:00] that when you arrive Saturday morning. And dawn, semi darkness, and there’s always a rush. Yeah, you gotta unload or prep the car, or get your gear, or see the event management to get checked in, go to the driver’s meeting.

All of this is, happens on deadlines. You’re actually under stress in the opening hour before you’ve ever gotten in your car to make laps. We want this opening warm up session to be a calming period where the driver can get out of that stressful environment of rushing around in the paddock under deadlines, and now they got nothing but their car, the windshield, and the track in front of them.

Don’t forget yellow flag, no passing, notice the corner stations. So the warm up session has a lot of benefit in calming the field in giving a new driver orientation to the lap and allowing an experienced driver to

Crew Chief Eric: shake their car down. And that’s done at full [00:45:00] speed with full gear and basically I’ve always heard it’s as fast as the car in front of you can go.

So if you’re stuck behind a Miata Yeah,

Mark Hicks: but hey, it could be a 10 year veteran in a Miata stuck behind a new guy in a 992 Porsche, right? But indeed, there’s not a speed limit. You can go as fast as the car in front of you, and if the If the guy in front of you is a very seasoned driver and he doesn’t have anybody holding him up, he might be going a hundred plus miles an hour in the warmup session.

And you know what? That’s okay. Can’t overtake anybody, but it is true that you do start full gear. I want to point out that there are some programs that run a warmup period to begin their track event. And they’ll say, Oh, off pace, low speed, no helmet required. Let’s rewind a moment. And I was talking about risk mitigation, identifying risk factors.

If a [00:46:00] novice driver is getting in the car for the first time to make laps, and they’re going to do a warm up period and they don’t have their helmet on, now I can understand there’s some potential benefit in what the instructor has to say and, and what have you, but that then means that the first time that driver makes laps while wearing a helmet, Which can be a little disorienting if you’re, if it’s not a familiar thing to you, the first time that driver may make laps while wearing a helmet will be under full speed conditions.

We want that driver to already have a comfort level with what are these conditions with my belt? So the harness or, you know, the helmet, or maybe I’ve got a head and neck restraint or Hans device or hybrid or other backpack, they need to get oriented and comfortable with. The whole cockpit environment under less than [00:47:00] full speed conditions so that they’re ready for it.

When they get to full speed status. And so yes, indeed, that is why the helmet is required in the warm up session, not to mention the obvious safety benefit. If I were to tell you, yes, we have seen incidents in the warm up session. Would you be surprised?

Crew Chief Eric: No, not

Mark Hicks: at all.

Crew Chief Eric: Probably

Mark Hicks: not. It’s a racetrack. And yes, uh, the reality is we have seen off track incidents occur in the warmup period.

So of course your helmet is going to be required. So let’s go back

Crew Chief Eric: to progression because you talked about that a little bit in terms of, you know, the expectations of the classroom and things like that. And one of the pieces that I found is unique to CHIM is the flag test and it’s part of your progression model.

So you want to talk about that. Well, great. I sure will.

Mark Hicks: And by the way, anybody who watches the Break It Fix It podcast, you want to cheat? 17turns. com It’s the Chin Track Days flag test. [00:48:00] That’s the number one seven turns dot com. And for those of you who aren’t completely in the know that’s how many turns there are at Sebring.

This is part of the whole platform of driver conditioning that we do in terms of education and it literally ties back to the warm up session that we were just talking about because of course at that time every corner station is displaying a yellow flag stationary full course caution. Which gives every driver the opportunity to identify notice the location of the corner stations if you’re visiting An unfamiliar lap for the first time you need to know where those corner stations are We put a lot of emphasis on the corner stations and the flags And in the chin format as a driver gains experience And confidence raises and they build pace.

They’re going faster. Maybe they’re now ready to qualify into a next higher run group. We will give you the flag [00:49:00] test and you can practice that at 17turns. com. And yes, they’re all there and this is something that we think should be second nature to every driver. It is universal in motorsport and we have seen.

Some fairly fast drivers, drivers that appear to have that natural gift of speed that they were very good at managing the geometry of the track, using the whole track, working their vehicle, they’re going fast, they want to get to a higher run group, we give them the flag test, and we have a handout for that, a hard copy paper, you can look at that, read this, and then we ask you to take the flag test, and they fail miserably!

They haven’t had any flag conditioning or training previously. They’ve just used their natural skill to make good laps. But that will tell us if they failed the flag test. They’re probably not noticing the corner station doesn’t just mean [00:50:00] you don’t need know the difference between the blue or black or, or red or yellow, but it also can indicate that that driver is not giving appropriate ample attention to the corner station eyes up eyes out of the car, not off the end of your hood.

Looking down track to the next corner station, drivers, a general tip, not just a chin track day standard, but for everybody out there, every lap you make, if you get your eyes up and down the track and see the next corner station, your laps are going to improve. Rather or not, the corner station is showing a flag.

There may be no hazard whatsoever, but if you got your eyes that far down the track, your lapping will get better. Get your eyes up, look at the corner stations, know your flags, and we’ll give you the flag test at the next Gen Track Day event you attend to qualify you into the next higher run group. And then [00:51:00] for our most advanced category, for a very experienced driver who wants to get to kind of the tip of the track day pyramid, the Gen Track Day’s red group, you’ll take the flag test and we will further give you A corner worker test, and that is the blank track map for the track that we’re visiting at that time.

And we’ll give you the track map and ask you to take a pen and please mark the location all the way around the lap of every corner station that is in use. And that is a test of track awareness and of course, flag management and corner stations. And it’s a, it’s a safety step. And that is part of the Chin culture and part of our run group ladder.

If you will, that keeps some pretty clean run groups and it keeps the drivers honest. You can show up in, uh, a new $300,000 exotic and tell us you [00:52:00] should be in the fastest run group. Y’all know the video, right?

Crew Chief Eric: And there’s plenty of ’em. And,

Mark Hicks: and we’ll go, um, you know, show me your track history. You got a nice car there, but tell me about all the laps that you’ve made.

’cause we don’t qualify cars, we qualify drivers. And, uh, so, uh, you can have a day one driver in a brand new Ferrari and a day one driver in a ten year old Miata. In Chin Track days, they will both be in the same run group because each driver has the same skill level. We’re not measuring wallet thickness.

Crew Chief Eric: So with that being said, I know one of the things that’s a dreaded part of the whole process. It’s for veterans and newbies alike getting through tech. And so I, we try to offset some nerves by explaining the process to people because I think people get overly anxious about what’s involved. So and every group does tech differently.

Some require like [00:53:00] mark organizations require you to go to specialists and there’s other groups that don’t tech at all. And there’s every gamut in between. So can you elaborate a little bit on what Chin’s tech is like? Sure.

Mark Hicks: Yeah, thanks Eric. So you’re absolutely right about that in terms of this is one of the stress steps That enthusiasts must face as they get started in their track event one of the things you must do really in the arrival hour as soon as you get to the track is Pass tech and for drivers that may be new to the hobby indeed they might find that to be a fairly burdensome and on its surface appear to be Quite a complex task and you know, Oh, will I fail tech for this chip in my windshield at chin track days?

Honestly, one of the risk mitigation steps that we take is to put the burden of having a safe car and completing tech on [00:54:00] the driver. And what we mean by that is chin track days doesn’t want The responsibility to put a lug wrench on your wheels and torque your lugs or raise your hood and check your battery cables or check any of your fluid levels.

You know what? That’s really not a good practice for someone else. To tamper, so to speak, you’re not tampering deliberately, but to do things with someone else’s car, in many cases, if you’re a track enthusiast, that track car is your prized possession. We’re not gonna tamper with that. We’re gonna give you a comprehensive list and say, here are the requirements, follow these guidelines, check these boxes.

If you are an enthusiast who can change your own brakes, Jack your car up, take the wheels off, remove the calipers, swap the pads, put it all back together, have no leftover pieces, and bleed. You are qualified to tech your own car. That is fully legit. In fact, [00:55:00] many enthusiasts may say this is a fundamental thing that a track enthusiast ought to have mastered.

Go through the list, check all the boxes, sign off on, at the bottom, it very deliberately says, I take full responsibility for the mechanical condition of my car, and even if you have gone to the high end professional shop with multi levels of ASE certifications that are very familiar with doing track inspection and all of that, and a mechanic has completed the tech and signed off on it, guess what?

You still have to take responsibility for it. And there is a line on our tech sheet at the bottom that says I am the owner, operator, driver, et cetera. And I take full responsibility for this, the condition of this car. And on the one hand, it might appear that Chen is just trying to shrug the responsibility of doing a safe, [00:56:00] clean tech.

That is absolutely not the case. We are emphasizing to the owner, operator, driver, the importance of taking care of that. It’s okay if you’re not a person who can change your own brakes and you do send it out for service, and you get someone else to inspect the car. That’s great as long as that is your comfort level and you have high confidence that that mechanical inspection has been thoroughly and appropriately addressed, you still are going to have to sign off on that.

And so we’re putting That burden and this responsibility on the driver to make sure that this has been done in advance Now that driver will face one of the chin tech leaders who will take the complete Tech inspection form validate that everything has been correctly completed signed off on meaning you accept full responsibility We’ll check the number.

We certainly are going to look at your seat belts, etc. We want to make sure [00:57:00] You know vintage car, you know with the good old fashioned 60 seat back and a lap belt Okay, that’s going to get a red flag right up front early on. Fortunately, we don’t see that often One of the chin tech leaders is certainly going to eyeball the car And review that page and then we’re going to give you that tech sticker and tell you to move along We want to make the tech process user friendly and very accessible for a prepared driver Whose car is in excellent condition a passing tech at chin track days takes about 90 seconds to two minutes and that’s it So we want to make that user friendly, but at the same time give emphasis That this is a very important step And i’ll tell you the number one thing and the 1a thing That we do have to correct drivers on at tech one is they got a kind of a collector car spends most of its time in the garage or man cave And they’re [00:58:00] showing up on tires that have plenty of tread life Because it’s they haven’t been used in six seven eight years.

They’re holding air just fine Nope, we’re gonna fail you if your tires are that old and the second thing 1a Is your helmet being out of date? Drivers don’t realize this, or, you know, often said, uh, you know, the motorsport manufacturers are just trying to make money by having that helmet standard, but you know what?

The Snell thing is all about the, the, the helmet ages sitting on your shelf. Drivers, the shell oxidizes, it becomes brittle, it loses its impact resilience. So the Snell certification is a real thing. And if you show up with an out of date helmet. We will rent you one of our current and up to spec helmets that are available at every Chin Track Days event, you know, so that’s our approach to tech, which is Fundamentally, [00:59:00] it’s to put the responsibility on the driver to have a well

Crew Chief Eric: prepared car.

All very good points, Mark. And we covered helmet aging and things like that on a previous episode titled Things I Wish I Knew as a Noob. And we talk about, you know, the 11 year run and why helmets Come out when they do and what the ratings mean and what, you know, SA versus them and all that kind of stuff.

So if anybody’s interested in diving into that a little bit more, check out that earlier episode where Brad and I covered that in more detail. But one thing I do want to mention in something you mentioned at the top of that part of the conversation is I always cringed at those events where somebody would walk up to the car with a torque wrench, which you didn’t know what it was set at.

And let’s just say. You know you own a Lotus Elise or you own a Subaru or a Honda where your torque spec is 75 pounds at best and I’m in a Volkswagen Audi Porsche where my torque spec is 100. Who’s got the over tightened lug and who has the under tightened one in this case, [01:00:00] right? So it never sat right with me.

Mark Hicks: Has that torque wrench even been calibrated? You know is it the 10 Harbor Freight Special or is it the 180 Snap

Crew Chief Eric: on? Right? Exactly. So again, I, I cringe at that and I’m like, yeah, you know, so I like the way you guys do it. It’s a little clinical, but that’s a good way to approach it and the whole sign off and the double check.

But you’re right. It’s not something to be worried about at the end of the day. If you’ve made preparations well in advance, not the morning of trying to get your way through tech, we’ve seen that happen too. There shouldn’t be any anxiety there. And once you’ve gone through it once. That usually subsides relatively quickly, but it does still factor into that whole conversation about risk mitigation and risk acceptance.

And I think there’s one more piece that we’ve talked about with multiple people on this show, and we want to get your opinion about it from your personal opinion and maybe from Chin’s Perspective is the topic of track insurance. Uh huh. How do you feel about track insurance? And [01:01:00] is chin one of the organizations that is starting to company registration with the ability for a driver to purchase track insurance as they register?

So if you want to unpack that or

Mark Hicks: Yeah, great topic, Eric, uh, which is Very multifaceted, honestly, there are layers of complexity and every driver out there has a little bit different scale for Kind of risk reward and What their level of comfort is with exposure track insurance? Has definitely been on the rise recently.

No question about it. Probably the last five six years It’s become more and more prevalent for drivers To opt in to buy track day coverage and drivers that may typically come with a fee in the range of 3, 4, 5 percent of your declared value. If you’re in a Miata from [01:02:00] the 90s in a car, That has a real street value of five six seven thousand bucks.

You may not need track day insurance It’s you know, probably irrelevant and then you look at the absolute abundance of high performance cars available today Honestly, I would look around and say we may be in the greatest automotive era Of our generation. I was born in the 60s. And of course we all look back fondly At muscle cars from the 60s and 70s and there’s a lot of conversation that goes back and forth about What’s the greatest era of cars?

Well, I’ll tell you what Never ever have was there a time before now where you could walk in? To a Chevy dealer with 65, 000 bucks, come away with a Camaro Z011LE, drive into Road Atlanta, and if you’re a competent driver, do a minute [01:03:00] 35 after doing nothing but filling the tank for 65, 000 bucks. Honest to God, wow!

In the 90s, you would have had to have a 200, 000 car to go a minute 35 in Road Atlanta. So now, this performance has become really accessible, and not 65, 000, well that’s not chump change. But compared to the performance that 65, 000 would get you 10 years ago, It’s an extraordinary leap that we have now taken.

So now, cars in this category, Mustang GT350, the new Camaros, the new Corvettes, are more expensive, but still, bang for the buck, is enormous. And now, you may be thinking, if I did, uh, you know, have an off, have an incident that resulted in collision damage, I tell you what, the Expense [01:04:00] to repair these cars now has escalated in lockstep with the available performance So performance is skyrocketed.

But now they’ve got all you know lane keeping assist And uh anti collision braking systems with radar in the bumpers this kind of thing You know what you tag the tire wall with what appears to be just cosmetic skim And you’ve damaged the bumper, but hey the car’s still drivable and you’ve driven you drive away into the pits A car generation ago, 10 plus years back, that would have been a 1, 000 or 2, 000 fix.

Now it’s a 9, 000 fix. Why? Because the bumper is radar equipped, and it’s got all these other G sensors, etc. So the cost to repair the vehicles now, for even what appears to be minor things, has escalated significantly. That might mean that getting track insurance is a good idea. The track hobby is Even at the entry level, it’s an [01:05:00] expensive undertaking.

Honestly, motorsport in general, it just, there’s not a cheap way to do it. But if you have that commitment and you’re paying five or six hundred dollars in track fees and you’ve, you’re bringing your 65 to 80 plus thousand dollar car, if it’s a late model, you know, plenty of us drive, you know, recycled cars that we have made track prepared for 20, 000 bucks, et cetera, but still you’ve taken time off work, you’ve committed expense to travel, you’re going to spend on, on hotels and dining and all the other consumables, tire, et cetera.

Gas, grapes, etc. You know what? You got a couple thousand bucks into the weekend, just like that is what it takes. Is it worthwhile now to spend another 350 to 450 bucks? To cover your car for on track damage. This is what enthusiasts have to consider Honestly, it wouldn’t be my place to tell enthusiasts Hey, [01:06:00] you should ignore track insurance forget it or hey, you must have track insurance go out there and get it You know with a high recommendation, but I certainly what I do want to do is educate enthusiasts on the pros and cons of having or not having Track insurance the con right out up front, of course is the expense It’s going to add three to four to five hundred dollars depending on the expense of your car It’s going to add that to your track weekend the pro Well, if you have the unfortunate occurrence to find yourself off the track Up against the wall in a cloud of dust Going now you’re going to be really glad you have track insurance.

Now, of course The statistical probability of this occurrence is low. If you found yourself in those conditions and you didn’t have insurance, you will say, man, I wish I got the track insurance. And if you have it, you’ll say, [01:07:00] boy, I’m glad I got the track insurance. That’s what will happen. But it is readily available and there are several great providers out there.

Chin Track Days definitely has a relationship with Locton. Motorsports, one of the leaders in providing track day insurance. There is a referral link on our website to Lockton Motorsports for track day insurance. It’s not part of our direct online registration because, well, just for insurance regulatory reasons, unless Chin Track Days is a licensed insurance seller, we can’t sell insurance directly.

I can just let you know that we have a relationship with Lockton Motorsports. And they give favorable rates for Chim Track Days events, by the way. Per event premium for some Chim Track Days events is lower from Lockton than perhaps if you were participating with a different club. So that’s not a guarantee, uh, and it [01:08:00] depends on what event venue you’re going to.

Some venues are higher risk than others. Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, et cetera, have inherently higher risk than a place like, say, Koda, where it’s hard to, uh, hurt your car in some ways. But every enthusiast ought to give consideration to what is their exposure to risk, with the value of their car, one of the things that you can easily find on the internet.

Advice from other enthusiasts about track day insurance. They’ll say if you can’t afford to get out and walk away from your car Then you should insure it But that is something for every enthusiast to make a personal decision about it is not a requirement But do know If you are an enthusiast and you choose to track your high performance streetcar, your streetcar policy very likely does not provide coverage for damage that might occur in a track related incident.

Read your policy, drivers, [01:09:00] is the best advice you could get. It will say. We exclude racetracks where it won’t say that. And by the way, if it doesn’t It doesn’t have to say we insure you in a racetrack incident. It doesn’t have to say that. It only has to be silent about that. Fundamentally, we are non competition, right?

And that is a key thing because every insurance provider out there will certainly say, we exclude using your car if you go racing. You know, does the same thing apply if you’re doing autocross, for example? Because that’s a controlled environment. It’s not at a racetrack. They’re all gray areas, and I’ll be honest to you, internet viewers.

insurers very widely. Um, there is not a uniform model out there. And if you are committed to be in the hobby long term, using a car that is street tagged and that you drive on the street, you ought to spend some time giving attention to the language of your insurance

Crew Chief Eric: policy. One of one of our members says if I can’t put a boot in the door [01:10:00] of your car Then you’ve chosen the wrong car meaning

Mark Hicks: Well, I will say hey, we’re all enthusiasts I won’t go around putting my boot in anybody’s

Crew Chief Eric: car A couple things to wrap up here If there’s anything in particular you want to let people know about the remainder of the season by all means And if you want a shout out to any of this any of chin sponsors Because I know you guys have them.

Please do that as well. And i’ll have my closing comments before, you know, we wrap up.

Mark Hicks: Well, that’s just, that’s fantastic. Uh, thank you for opening the window to that. I definitely will thank our forever long time partner in driver safety and motor sports accessories is discovery parts discounts.

Discounts to Chin Drivers. Our brake partner is G Lock. Discounts to Chin Drivers. Uh, they offer brake pad and friction compounds in every range for almost any style of vehicle. [01:11:00] Uhlen’s Advanced Suspension Technology. Is our title branding partner for all of our road Atlanta and Watkins Glen dates Oolans also gives discounts to chin drivers.

Oolans became famous for providing Suspension for formula one cars that you know was like 20 000 bucks a corner But now you can get ulens that very same. Um level of engineering. It’s not the same stuff But the same thought and care goes into their products for track cars If you’re thinking about a suspension upgrade We would recommend ulens if you’re in florida and you own a porsche You should be considering track support from zotts racing zotts racing is the Home of Porsche Podiums in Florida.

They’re Orlando based, but they serve Porsche owners across the entire state with top tier service and in their facility at Zots Racing in Orlando. If you are near VIR, [01:12:00] Shin Track Days recommends trackside service and support from Quantum Speedworks. Quantum. is, uh, in the RacePlex right next to V. I. R.

and they provide service for track enthusiasts across the Southern Virginia and Northern North Carolina tier. They are awesome. We visit COTA in Texas often, and you’re from other parts of the country and you want to enjoy laps at COTA. Many drivers ask us where can they get a track prepared rental. We go to W2W, and that is Will to Win Racing, and they are based in Budda, which is just south of Austin, but they provide fully supported track car rentals, really for any Texas track event, but especially accessible for all.

CODA dates and also in Texas, our partners at Thin Speed Racing Wheels do custom billet forged aluminum wheels. If you want your wheels cut from a single billet block, they are quite [01:13:00] incredible. Many IMSA teams have adopted these because of zero failure. When they start banging wheels in competition. The other guys are breaking wheels and the fin speeds are finishing the pass.

Just a snapshot of some of the, uh, the big backers and supporters of Chin Track Days. I, honestly, we have more. I, I don’t want to keep tying y’all up there. But, uh, looking down the calendar, you know, we’re finishing our summer season. We call it the, uh, The weight loss series because we continue to do track events through the heart of the summer this weekend We are at michelin raceway road atlanta next weekend.

That’s the third week of august We’ll be at barber motorsports park and then in the last weekend of august summit point raceway And that is followed by watkins glenn On the first week of September and Labor Day, and then tumbling down the calendar, we’ll return to Barber and Road Atlanta again in September, followed by [01:14:00] Sebring.

Coda, VIR, and then many of these tracks cycle and pop up on our calendar month after month after month. So you can find Road Atlantic and Sebring Dates pretty much in every month from now until December and we’ll be out in Texas also at Eagles Canyon Raceway. Man, I don’t know what your audience is on that side Eric and Brad, but Eagles Canyon is one of our new favorite venues.

This place is spectacular. 2. 75 mile, 17 turn lap on the rolling hill country of the Texas ranch lands north of Dallas and Fort Worth. Uh, what a spectacular venue. Gotta recommend it. Uh, and we’ll be back at Eagles Canyon. In October, and those are just some highlights. There is a ton more from now till year end.

We have about 26 more track events on the calendar [01:15:00] over the next three months and of course, you know where to find it ChinTrackDays. com.

Crew Chief Eric: Unbelievable, Mark. It’s an incredible, incredible production that you guys put on and I can’t thank you enough for what you guys do and all the effort that gets put into it.

It’s a top notch service and again, we’ve had the pleasure of running with Chin for many, many years now and it’s been a rewarding experience every time. Now, with that being said, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. Educating our listeners, giving them an inside scoop into what Chin is like, what you’re all about, the values, the ideology, the education, everything that goes into making, you know, your events as successful as they are for all the listeners out there that have tuned into this episode.

If you want more details about Chin, you can visit Chin track days at www. chintrackdays. com or follow them on Instagram at Chin track days or call. 1 855 799 CHIN. You’ll probably get Mark on the phone, so be [01:16:00] prepared. And on that note, Mark, it’s, it’s been an absolute pleasure, and we look forward to seeing you again in another event soon.

You know, obviously our calendar has been all sorts of in turmoil, but, uh, you know, we’re going to see where things line up and see what the rest of the year looks like. Right. So, you know, maybe we’ll see you soon. If not, we’ll definitely see in 21 as we partner up with Chin yet again.

Mark Hicks: You guys are awesome, Eric.

I so appreciate what Grand Touring Motorsports has done for your, your small and growing community. Your commitment to the hobby as it is because indeed it is enthusiasts like you and the others in Grand Touring Motorsports and many, many tens of thousands magnified throughout the enthusiast community across the country who make our hobby what it is and it makes it possible for me to tell this story today.

I am very grateful to you and I thank you for the privilege to share that with you. [01:17:00]

Crew Chief Eric: All right. Well, thank you, Mark.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, listeners, crew, chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard and read from GTM? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep them momentum going.

So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how [01:18:00] you can help.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:27 Welcoming Mark Hicks
00:40 The Origin of Chin Track Days
02:01 The First Chin Motorsports Event
04:25 Rebranding to Chin Track Days
04:56 Growth and Expansion
06:30 Impact of COVID-19 on Events
09:19 Mark’s Favorite Cars
13:29 The Traveling Circus of Chin Track Days
18:05 How to Register for Chin Events
25:30 Chin’s HPDE Program
36:28 Mastering the Miata
37:10 The Chin Track Days Experience
38:04 Safety Culture and Risk Mitigation
42:43 The Importance of Warm-Up Sessions
47:33 Progression and Flag Tests
52:37 Tech Inspection Process
01:00:45 Track Insurance Considerations
01:10:06 Upcoming Events and Sponsors
01:15:06 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Learn More

With headquarters just eight miles from Road Atlanta, Chin Track Days operates like a well-oiled machine. Mark affectionately refers to the operation as a “traveling circus,” with a highly committed staff that brings the same level of excellence to every venue. From Sebring to Circuit of the Americas, Chin’s footprint spans the eastern U.S., offering enthusiasts access to legendary tracks without the need for a franchise model.

Mark’s story is a testament to what happens when passion meets opportunity. From a closed gate at Sebring to a national calendar of track events, Chin Track Days has become a pillar of the HPDE community. Whether you’re a seasoned instructor or a first-time track enthusiast, Chin offers a place to learn, grow, and connect—with your car and with others who share the same love for motorsports.

Drive Your Car with CHIN Track Days

Chin Track Days maintains its own standalone website – chintrackdays.com – where drivers can find schedules, register for events, and access a wealth of educational resources. Registration opens every Monday night at 9 p.m. Eastern for events eight weeks out, and popular dates often sell out within minutes. Novice slots are especially limited, so early registration is key.

Chin’s instructor team is composed of seasoned veterans – many of whom have trained with NASA, PCA, BMW CCA, or hold MSF Level 2 certification. New instructors must have prior experience and are vetted track-by-track to ensure quality and safety.

Unlike organizations that blend HPDE with club racing, Chin Track Days is focused solely on education. While race-prepped cars are welcome for testing, the emphasis is on helping drivers of high-performance street cars develop their skills in a safe, structured environment.

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Double Down on Story Time w/ Crutch!

Mike C

August 18, 2020

With a longer than normal pause and a big >sigh< you always know when it’s story time… So, grab your marshmellows, chocolate and grams… because it’s Story Time with Crutch!

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Bathurst or Bust!

Check out the full review that Mike C and Chrissy C did on their trip to Australia! Meanwhile, enjoy this video of “a lap of Bathurst”

Kiwis & Koffee

(FROM 2019) – I have been back state-side for a few weeks, but I would be remiss if I didn’t talk about the massive American Muscle Car car show I went to in New Zealand run by the Moonshine Car Club. Being in a foreign country, it was actually both nice and surprising to end up in the middle of that slice of Ameri-car-na. Yes, New Zealand has had it’s own slice of American car brands with Ford and Holden, but there is also a sizable following of good-ole American sourced iron.

Being a right hand drive country, the latest model of the Mustang is the first they can buy from the factory fitted to drive on New Zealand roads, but that hasn’t stopped the influx of even modern muscle cars into New Zealand. They obviously don’t have any restrictions like our 25-year import ban into the US. I saw everything up to a C6 Corvette, and current gen Camaros back to a first gen Mustangs, Camaros and GTOs.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Not only were they celebrating the American cars, they also had a slice of old-school American culture to go with it. 50s and 60s music, fair food, pinup contests (no, not a bikini or wet T-shirt contest, classic “pin-up” style clothing). Check out the shots from the New Zealand car show that Mike went to while stationed there in 2019 (ABOVE).

#tbt Mike’s Original GTM Bio!

(JULY 1, 2014) – I started doing HPDE events in mid 2012 and became an HPDE instructor in 2014. I have worked with several DE organizations over the last few years but a majority of my time instructing is with HookedonDriving North East Region and Summit Point Friday at the Track. Back in 2006-2008 I also had the pleasure of living in Germany and made frequent trips to the Nurburgring and Hockenheimring.

2003 VW Turbo Beetle S

1993 BMW 325i

I have driven an interesting smattering of cars on track that has given me experience with both FWD and RWD vehicles to include an 07 Rabbit, 08 135i vert, and an 11 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. Because there aren’t many instructors with FWD experience, you will often find me in the right seat of VWs and Minis on track.

Besides Hockenheimring and Nurburgring, my on track experience includes Watkins Glen (both layouts), Road Atlanta Full Course, 4 Pocono configurations including the Tri-oval, Lime Rock, VIR Full and Grand and several more. You can find track videos in my YouTube Channel, I have started posting pictures of events to Instagram, and I occasionally post on Twitter and my blog. Feel free to approach me if you see me at an event and introduce yourself.

“Well, I already know a few of you and Eric just invited me to join the group today. I have been tracking state-side* since Fall 2012 in my 2007 VW Rabbit (slush box :() and just started instructing this year with BSR (Friday at the Track), Hooked on Driving, Track Daze and SCCA. I was actually Tania’s instructor this weekend, and then made the mistake of soloing her, which is obviously how she broke her car lol. Eric then gave me some pointers throwing my Rabbit around Shenandoah and I also lost my axle heat shield during one of the sessions and I think it cut a CV boot so I need to get under the car tonight and double check that (And that is a brand new freaking CV Axle). Need it ready before the Friday at the Track in just over 3 days. I also bought an E36 325i to eventually turn into a track car (and that is a manual…yay!) My site has links to all my photos and videos, so just start there. http://www.mikecrutchfield.com/ – * 2006-2008 I lived in Germany and spent a lot of time and money at Hockenheimring and Nurburgring.”

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The Ones That Got Away: GTM Panelists Reveal Their Automotive Regrets

Brad N

August 11, 2020

The Ones That Got Away: GTM Panelists Reveal Their Automotive Regrets

Every car enthusiast has one – that vehicle they let slip through their fingers, the one they sold too soon, never bought, or watched someone else ruin. In Episode 07 of Break/Fix podcast, our panel of petrolheads dives deep into their personal archives to share stories of the cars that got away. From rare Shelbys to sentimental Sciroccos, this episode is a nostalgic ride through missed opportunities and mechanical heartbreaks.

In this round of “What Should I Buy” we discuss cars we regret not buying, regret selling and regret having! Collectively, we’ve had and/or driven over a 1000 cars, so what is there to fret over? In this WSIB, we add a twist: “If you could only have 3 cars on your desert island, what would they be? Would they be one of the cars you regret?”

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Matt opens with a tale of a black-and-gold Shelby GT350H – yes, one of the legendary Hertz rental cars. Offered to him for just $13,000 back in college, this CS-VIN Mustang had snakes, stripes, and a four-speed. “It would’ve killed me in 20 minutes,” he jokes, recalling a terrifying ride with Mr. Jenkins, a towering mechanic who barely spoke but knew how to wring out a Ford.

Dan’s regret centers on a pristine 1968 RS Camaro with a four-speed, once owned by his cousin. Despite begging to buy it, she sold it to someone who chopped it up for drag racing. “Why?” Dan laments. “That car was perfect.” He also recalls a 1964 Chevy II Nova he nearly restored before hard times forced a sale.

Mike had a chance to buy an E92 M3 while stationed in Germany. Instead, he opted for a 1 Series convertible – a twin-turbo, six-speed joyride that saw the Nürburgring and Stelvio Pass. Still, the M3 haunts him. “It hit 155 mph on the Autobahn,” he says wistfully. “That test drive was unforgettable.”

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction and Special Guests
01:00 The One That Got Away: Matt’s Story
04:21 Dan’s Regretful Camaro
07:09 Mike’s BMW Dilemma
09:30 Eric’s Childhood Heartbreak
11:26 Brad’s List of Lost Loves
17:40 Matt’s Rental Car Adventures
23:27 The One That Got Away
23:54 European Car Adventures
24:49 The Super Beetle Story
25:28 Non-Running Cars Regrets
26:52 BMW Regrets and Reflections
30:12 Dream Garage Picks
31:43 Desert Island Car Choices
44:02 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Grand Touring Motor Sports Podcast Break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motor sports.

What’s going on everybody? This is your host of the GTM podcast, Brad ak the triple six with me, as always, is uh, Eric. Hey, uh, we have a few special guests tonight with us. We’ve got, uh, a couple club members. Hazmat, got Mr. Crutch himself, and then we’ve got Mountain Man, Dan, today’s episode. We’re gonna do something a little different.

We’re kind of gonna go around the horn style. Basically. We’re talking about the one that got away. No, we’re not talking about your high school girlfriend that you, you broke up with, broke your heart, and you had to go cry to mama. No. We’re talking about the cars. Cars that you used to own. Between the five of us, we’ve probably had, shoot, I don’t even know, prob probably 5,000 cars between the five of us.

I, I would say that’s an exaggeration, but probably not too far off. But anyway, we’re gonna talk about those cars, the ones that we regret getting rid of the one that got away. And then on top of that, we’ve got a special thing for you all. It’s gonna be the Desert Island [00:01:00] question. Alright, so let’s hear what Matt has to say.

Matthew Yip: All right, so you, the, the, the car that got away, huh?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. I mean, you’ve had several cars since I’ve known you, and that’s only been a short time, five or six years.

Matthew Yip: People used to give me cars. The the blue GTI that Eric ultimately ended up with, somebody gave me, and according to the Volkswagen nerds, it was the, uh, rarest color ever.

And the only thing that made it different from every other GTI 16 valve was it was blue, which apparently is a, is a big. But cars that got away when I was in college, I, uh, had a good friend who his father was a mechanic, owned a repair shop in, in the town of Star North Carolina, and they lived in the town of I Kid Unite.

Ether. Mr. Jenkins worked on a lot of interesting stuff. First time I had ever seen a load of seven or replica and he had a Westfield, he kept a 1956 Packard Caribbean convertible for the local millionaire. But he had a car that he offered to me and I should have bought it. That [00:02:00] would’ve paid the same for that 86 G t I eight valve that I bought that that I kept for many, many years.

In fact, Eric probably remembers that car very vividly. All I learned to drive on , he tried to kill me. More than once. The car that I was offered was interesting. It was a Ford Mustang. It was black and it had gold dust stripes on it. It had this really big ugly tachometer on the, on the dash and it had snakes all over it.

Crew Chief Eric: and um, I think I know where this is going.

Matthew Yip: The, the VIN started CS for tho for those who know the Shelby Mustangs, they made the GT three 50 H. They were rental cars. The first 85 of those cars were manual transmission. Manual brake cars.

Crew Chief Brad: Were those Hearst cars?

Matthew Yip: Hertz rental car.

Crew Chief Brad: Hertz. Yeah. That’s what I meant.

First shifter stuff

Matthew Yip: we rent we’re we’re manual transmission cars. After that, her excuse. It took an excessive amount of effort to here and break the cars. The, uh, the standard 2 89, I believe was the 271 horsepower motor. [00:03:00] The Shelby motor was a 2 89 and made 306 horsepower, which in that day was amazing.

The, the, the Mustang that I was offered was, it was 90 a numbers matching car. But it was at four speed at $13,000 because it wasn’t worth anything at that time. It would’ve been a hell of a car, but I, I guarantee you, none of you would know me now cuz I’d been dead about 20 minutes later. I remember one morning, I, I used to spend the weekends there because it was a nice way to get away from from school.

I remember one morning, Mr. Jenkins looks at me, he says he was about six, eight and he, and if he said three words a day, that was a lie. And he says, you written in must. No, sir. Well, you should. No kidding. You know, wrong. Let’s go for a ride. You know, he backs it outta the driveway and they, they were, they were, they were Chevrolet people.

You know, that’s a big thing in, in the, in the South.

Crew Chief Eric: Mount Manan smiling now. . Oh yeah.

Matthew Yip: Well, he says, He says it makes all them horrible forward noises. Goddamn them damn metal bushings. And he says, well, I’ll take it easy. We’ll go down, go into [00:04:00] town. You know, he takes it easy and he, there’s a, there was a bypass from Star to Ethan.

Don’t ask me why. There, there was nothing else out there. It’s not like they were bypassing the big city. Got it out on the main drag. Damn if that thing wouldn’t catch all four years, .

Crew Chief Eric: So on that, let’s, uh, let’s pause there cause I have another car in mind that I want to ask you about in a little bit. But I want to, I want to go to Dan next.

What, what’s the car that you regret either selling. Not buying or even owning or not getting for free . Oh yeah, that’s a big one for him.

Mountain Man Dan: I’d have to say for me, the car that got away, I never had the chance to buy, but my cousin when I was in high school, she’s a little bit older than me and her parents, when she graduated, decided to buy her a car.

They bought her a first gen Camaro, so she had this nice, beautiful maroon with black racing stripes, black leather interior. 68 RS Camaro, 3 27 with a four speed. She decided she was older having kids. [00:05:00] It was time to get rid of the car. I begged her to let me buy the car from her and she was like, that’s too much car for you.

You couldn’t handle it. Da da da. . I’m like, no truck. Now I can handle the power. That’s not an issue. Fortunately that car, cause it was all original. Original paint, original tear, original everyth. with the exception maybe tires and brakes and things like that. It was an immaculate car and it always was in the garage.

I don’t think it ever spent a night outdoors. Unfortunately, I did not wind up with it. The gentleman that she wound up selling it to, I got very frustrated with, for the fact that being the car that it was, he set it up for the drag strip where he cut it up, put a roll cage in. Pulled the engine out, all kinds of stuff.

Why that car was perfect the way it was, there was no need to do that, to go find one that was already chopped up to do that too.

Crew Chief Eric: So, hold on. Could you have gotten that car for less than a thousand dollars? Because I mean, you have a reputation to maintain

Mountain Man Dan: that car. I don’t believe so, but I wouldn’t have been willing to pay that little, and especially [00:06:00] for what it was, it was worth, well, more than a thousand dollars.

Crew Chief Eric: $1 Bob. $1 .

Mountain Man Dan: I think I may have mentioned when I was younger, my stepfather used to haul scrap vehicles a lot of times, and so we go to down to Virginia too. There was a family down there that owned some property and over the years, vehicles accumulated on it. We go down, started hauling the cars out of there cause they decided to want to clean the property up.

Many of these cars were in horrible condition where they’d sat in the same spot so long. They sink into the ground almost five, six inches up past the bottom of the door into the mud and everything.

Crew Chief Eric: This is a very familiar scene you’re painting here, but please continue. .

Mountain Man Dan: There were a couple of nice gems that we pulled out of there and one of em just so happened to be a 64 Chevy two Nova.

It just an endline six car. An automatic, but. Automatic was a paraglide. So that’s a good thing sitting so long. The bottom floor pans were shot. We started restoring it a little bit, took care, replacement floor pans and stuff. I was only probably 12 years old at the time, and the intent was for me [00:07:00] to fix this up until I became 16.

Unfortunately, hard times came, needed to sell it, so they got sold and I didn’t ever wind up with it, but it did turn into a very phenomenal looking car.

Crew Chief Eric: So in an earlier episode we heard from, uh, crutch and he talked about one of the cars he regretted. So, Mike, do you wanna unpack that or do you have a even better story?

Mike Crutchfield: Well, there’s, there’s a little backstory about how, while we lived in Germany, we had, uh, E 93, 25 B bmw. We had, I don’t know, about six months before we came back and the, the new one series was coming out, first time in the us. . And so we went to take a look at ordering one of those, but when we stopped by the dealership, they had an E 92 M three there at the time.

So I was kind of weighing my options of either getting the E 92 or the one series. And we had bought the prior BMW here. So the, uh, the guy who worked there said, oh, you wanna take that out for test drive? And handed me the keys to a brand new E 92 M three, about 500 yards away from an unrestricted autobon.

So ,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s a test drive and a.

Mike Crutchfield: It very, very [00:08:00] quickly hit 155 miles an hour, which was the governor on that. We ended up buying the one series. Part of me wishes we had bought the E 92, but that would’ve probably meant we got rid of it even sooner after we got back to the States. The one series was a hoots, uh, 300 horsepower twin turbo inline, six a six speed manual convertible.

A lot of, uh, interesting road trips with that car all over Europe, up and down Sylvia Pass, which is just as amazing as it looked on. I am so if not better, ,

Crew Chief Eric: I’m so jelly they

Mike Crutchfield: don’t even understand. And to this day, there are two pictures hanging in my house of that car. Uh, one from the top of Sylvia Bass where we pulled over, take a photo of just the car and then another entering the carousel on the nurburg ring with my wife actually driving it at that time there, there is another famous photograph of that car though, where my boss at the time came along with me toner berg ring and was sitting in the passenger seat.

And most people don’t even realize he’s in the photo. because they’re distracted by the fact that the car is airborne . Uh, as as we enter a breaking zone for our sharp [00:09:00] prang corner. Ooh. So air brakes, my, that’s

Crew Chief Eric: when you put your hands up, right? You work as an air foil to slow the car down.

Mike Crutchfield: Well, well my forehead was an air foil cuz my head actually lifted above the windshield cuz the top was.

No helmets required. Very, very different world, uh, over there on the track. So,

Crew Chief Brad: so what you’re saying is you wouldn’t have passed the broomstick test in that car?

Mike Crutchfield: No. No. Not, not in the slightest.

Crew Chief Eric: We, we’ll save that comment for another episode, .

Crew Chief Brad: All right, Mr. Monte. Quatro, your turn.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh man, I got a list of ’em, but you know what?

I’m gonna start with the earliest regret and it, it, it kind of popped into my head today for, for various reasons, but I actually, I had mentioned this on a previous episode and I’ve talked to you guys about it before, especially to Matthew. Uh, my dad, you know, we were always, we had coops in the house, you know, always two door Volkswagen, Chacos, all sorts of stuff, Carras, et cetera.

My dad had pre-ordered one of the first 16 Val Chicos the the A two s and it [00:10:00] was a triple black, black leather black car with black basket weave b b s wheels. And I thought that was the coolest car in the world as a kid, right? Come it was an 86 and I’m like, man, one of these days when I’m old enough, I’m gonna have, this car is gonna be amazing.

Fast forward a couple years. He used to autocross that car. Uh, the wheels ended up, you know, I think Matt ended up with a set of wheels from that car. Parts went all over the place and he ended up deciding that he wanted to sell it because he was moving on. He was buying the carrado. They had bought my mom a, um, second gen co cuatro.

They got rid of her eight valve Chico. And I was, and I was just heartbroken. . And the worst part was when my dad sold the car, he had it all packaged up, all cleaned up. You know, he was real anal about keeping the cars in really nice shape. The guy that came to pick it up came and got it at night, and my dad actually happened to be away on some sort of trip or business trip or something like that.

And I just remember when my mom handed him all the stuff and then they drove away and I could hear the exhaust of the car. I just. Bawling. And I looked at my mom and she’ll [00:11:00] verify this whole story. And I looked at my mom and I’m like, that was supposed to be my card. And I’m just like, you know, and it, it is, it’s a, it’s a memory and it’s a feeling that has always, you know, stayed with me.

And then I drove Matt 16 Val Chico many years later, and I, I kind of got over it. But ,

Matthew Yip: well, reme, remember, remember what I always. Don’t drive your heroes.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. And I’ve made that mistake several times, unfortunately.

Crew Chief Brad: But how about you, Brad? I’ve had, I’m looking at my, I made a little, uh, diagram here, a little list like you, much like you’d see at the bottom of the Wikipedia for like bands, like who’s in the band and who’s not.

And I’ve got a list of all the cars that I’ve owned and it’s totals 23 vehicles. Since I was 16 years old. Now I say that to a bunch of car guys and they’re like, yeah, so I’ve had double that. You say that to my wife and she’s like, oh my God, look at all that money you wasted. . . But anyway, so there in that list, there are two.

To three vehicles that I really, really wish I had. [00:12:00] The first one I’m gonna say is my, my Ducati motorcycle. I was 20 years old, 18, 19, 20 years old or something. I don’t know why, but I got this hair up my ass that I really wanted a motorcycle, but I didn’t want any motorcycle. I wanted a Ducati, new Ducati at the time were.

13, $14,000 and you’re just completely outta my price range. But I knew somebody who knew somebody who knew some other people who happened to know someone that was a mechanic at a Ducati dealership selling a used 7 48. I got in contact with the guy, he had some cool cars as well. He had a, uh, a fourth gen Supra and he had, uh, a CJ lifted and all that other good.

So I ended up buying this Ducati from ’em, had it for a couple years, but then I found that I never really rode motorcycles like I had ’em. I’ve, I’ve had three, but I never rode ’em. I mean, it’s always a pain to put on all the gear and everything. And you know, someone my size in the middle of the summer, riding a motorcycle, you get somewhere and you lost five pounds of water cuz you sweated it all out on the way.

Plus the Ducati was air cooled so that didn’t, you know, [00:13:00] all that heat and everything you need to really keep it moving or it got really hot. Uh, so that’s, that’s the first one that they got away that I’m really, really sad about. The second was a 98 Chevrolet Camaro Ss. Now I had a 99 Camaro Z 28 that I, I bought used as a dealer after I got rid of the, the first gti.

I. The 99 Z 28, I had full suspension on it, and it was, it was a fun car. I ended up wrecking it as I explained in the, in our origin stories. Um, but the, the 98 that I bought several years later, I actually bought from a, a club member I bought from Andrew Mason. He was having a family. He was downsizing his fleet, uh, and he needed to get rid of the, the cool.

Sports car to get something more practical. So I bought the car from ’em and it was, it was a lot of fun. It was set up kind of similar to the 99 I had, but it was bright red. It was a beautiful car. And I ended up selling it because all my friends around me were getting Super S STIs, and I was like, Ooh, I want an sti.

So I sold the Camaro and got an STI and I regret it now because that would’ve been a great track car. Uh, engine engine for cruising [00:14:00] around the street and everything. Uh, so that’s number two. And then number three that I will have again someday, I will get into that later, is that my, my Jeep Wrangler, my 97, it was a tj, uh, which I think is the, the better body style, had the upgraded suspension and everything, but it had the, the more traditional looks.

It was green. It lifted three and a half inch. 32 inch tires and manual transmission and everything. And I just, I, I love that vehicle and I, I regret getting rid of it.

Crew Chief Eric: I am gonna call a yellow flag on that, uh, flag on the play. Gentlemen, I believe he said in the previous episode he was buying a Murano cross, Cabrio le in Champaign Rose metallic.

This is what we settled

Crew Chief Brad: on. That’s in, that’s in the future. And I, I have a three car garage so I can have two

Crew Chief Eric: and I, and I guarantee you all that is a future. Right there, .

Mountain Man Dan: I just know when you get that Jeep, we’re gonna Ls swap it, right?

Crew Chief Brad: Of course, of course. I mean that’s, it’s gotta be the plan. We’re gonna also,

Crew Chief Eric: we’re gonna add that to the regret column too.

Oh, [00:15:00] just mark my words on that one. Well,

Crew Chief Brad: my, my, you mean my mechanic is going to be doing the swap .

Mike Crutchfield: Across Cabrio is no geometric convertible. Ah, see, that’s convertible.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what I was, I was holding that gem for Matt, because I know he regrets

Matthew Yip: Geome convertible. Come on.

Crew Chief Eric: He, he regrets not buying one of those yet.

Come on now, Matt. That is true, true.

Matthew Yip: Someone give me, if, if I did,

Crew Chief Eric: I’d have bought one by now. What’s really, really funny, we tried, we tried actually really hard. Me and a bunch of your, your friends, Matt, for your 50th birthday, we tried to find a fuchsia geo metro convertible manual. We were, we were gonna buy it

We were, we had a whopping budget of $52 spent. That’s about all their work. And believe you, we couldn’t find one. That was the worst part. It was like, there was a point there where they were everywhere. They’re like, ah, geometric, convertible, yellow, white, whatever. And the closest thing came was some clapped out stoner, you know, electric blue car in Denver.

And I’m like, I am not going that far. But [00:16:00] we will find that fuchsia geo for you. I, you know what

Matthew Yip: happened? They, they all bought the, uh, Chrysler PT d Cruiser convertible, the standard, uh, purchase. For any geometric convertible is you had to weigh at least as much as the car and as they got older and heavier, they needed to get bigger cars and that’s why they bought the PT Cruiser convertible.

Mountain Man Dan: I have to say, you, you say they went from the metro to the PT convertible. I think there’s a transition period where a lot of ’em got, uh, the Chrysler Seabring convertible.

Matthew Yip: I rented. I rented one of those in. And I auto crossed it and it was phenomenal.

Crew Chief Brad: Wait, wait, wait. Ho ho. You auto crossed at Chrysler Seabra.

Matthew Yip: Was it John Voz? I flew in and outta Cleveland because it was cheaper. I had, I had a mask enough points and I said, uh, they, they first they tried to give me a rom prix with like 40,000 miles. Which in rental car miles as all as those of you who travel? No, that’s like, what, like 200,000 miles in dog? . And so I, I went back, there’s no way.

Oh, we can give you a convertible. Well, it’s like March I think, in Detroit. [00:17:00] Sure. Give me the freaking convertible. And so I ended up driving it. I went to Erie for the weekend cuz I have a family friend I grew up with and they had an autocross there. The car was amazing. You would turn in and it would literally lay down on the, on the, uh, rocker panel.

And as you turned in, you could watch the rear of the car twist in the opposite direction. The, uh, thank you. Your sarcasm

Crew Chief Eric: nose. No.

Crew Chief Brad: So, so are you saying you regret not buying a Chrysler Seabring? Is that what I’m hearing? Is that the one that got away? Matt?

Crew Chief Eric: I think he regrets that rental .

Crew Chief Brad: You know, he said he got that with rewards points.

I don’t think a Chrysler Seabring convertible is a reward. That’s a punishment.

Matthew Yip: 1 1, 1 of my many trips involved going to, uh, Chicago. And the reward car that I got was a TAUs with a sunroof. You

Crew Chief Eric: can . I can’t. Are you, are you cashing in like the monopoly things from McDonald’s

Crew Chief Brad: and these, you’re in glu for punishment.

Matt.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh.

Crew Chief Brad: Are you taking [00:18:00] enterprise reward points and cashing ’em in? It hurts.

Matthew Yip: Yes. Now I, fortunately I had hurt, but still, oh, well, you know, the, the, the, the beauty is as I, as I started traveling more and became more, uh, more educated, I gravitated towards the Crown Vic because A, they didn’t get beat up like the little cars did, and b I usually got ’em in white.

because that way I kind of blended in except for the one, the one night I got lost in the garment district in LA who drives around and who drives around the garment district at, at 10 o’clock at night? No one. No one with a brain. But my, my coworker who would travel with me was a little gal older than I am, but she was like five foot tall.

And you’re

Crew Chief Brad: only five foot two.

Matthew Yip: Thank. And, and she, she would ride in that car, she couldn’t see over the dashboard and she, I said, what do you think of these things? She goes, well, it’s like my father’s, father’s Oldsmobile . But we, I loved those cars. They were comfortable could, you could park ’em anywhere cuz it was the damn big no one would get in your way.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, there, there you have it. Never a dull moment. [00:19:00]

Crew Chief Brad: So, so we’ve, we’ve gone around the horn. We’ve gotten everybody’s, uh, regrets. . Oh, no, no.

Crew Chief Eric: I have, I have a list. I didn’t cover ’em. I’ll give you No.

Crew Chief Brad: Alright, let’s, let’s keep it going. Let’s keep it rolling. Let’s see what you got. Mon cuatro.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. Regrets.

So I will say, I’ll, I’ll throw it in for my mom real quick. She regrets. My dad’s selling our wide body nine 11 that we talked about in the first episode. Mm-hmm. reason being was that was the car that he apparently bought for her. And I’m gonna put air quotes around that. Put the red. Yeah, the red one. She never, that she never drove.

Matthew Yip: The one, the one that I drove, and I think everybody in the Porsche club shipped themselves because I drove it.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Matthew Yip: exactly.

Crew Chief Brad: He, he, I’m, I’m sensing a theme here. He had a tendency to sell the vehicles that were earmarked for other people. .

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Right. So with that being said, big regrets. I regret buying that bmw, but we’re gonna save that for the BMW episode.

Oh, he, I think everybody regrets buying a bmw. Oh geez. And that’s actually car I was gonna bring up for Matt and we’ll talk [00:20:00] about it in a second. Is, uh, his E 28, M five. So on my list, let’s just kind of wrap that up. One of the cars I really wanted to buy and regret the fact that Volkswagen never produced it is a car you all are gonna have to Google, which is a vehicle known as the VW Concept.

R came out about 2001, 2002 timeframe as a prototype built on the boxer, but it was powered by a 3.2 liter. Beetle, RSI Golf R 32 engine, and they were gonna bring it in as a kind of base market sports car, you know, $30,000. And it was fantastic. I love the look of it. It’s actually what inspired the look of the, uh, the Mark five GTIs with that kind of chrome nose kind of bakish.

It actually has the same headlights as an eos. , you know, stuff like that. They never ended up producing it. And I still have that picture, you know, as one of my desktop wallpapers. I, I mentioned in the previous episode, my wife and I both regret selling our SS Trailblazer. I blamed Dan entirely for buying it.

I blame myself entirely for getting rid of it, but that was the ultimate hashtag track truck. It [00:21:00] was an absolute pleasure to drive. Granted it was 1998, you know, Chevy interior, so you had to kind of put up with that. But everything else it offered was fantastic. and the last car, big regret. And it’s a car I, I’ve said probably many times over that I would still have to this day.

It’s like my dad who pre-ordered cars. I pre-ordered a two, 2004 VW Golf R 32. Now for those that don’t know, and if you happen to be in the D M V. In the late 2003 timeframe when the Baltimore Auto Show was still in the fall and the DC Auto Show was then in in, in the winter. It’s kind of moved a little bit over the years.

The car that was on display at both of those shows is actually my car now. 50,000 public butts sat in my car, unfortunately, thank God they fumigate it after it was over, but my car was actually 2003 triple black. and I had that car for three plus years, and unfortunately it was stolen right out from underneath of me.

It’s a void in my life. It wasn’t one of those things that I could get closure on because it was taken, and I’ve said many times before, I [00:22:00] would still have that car to this day. I mean, I found things that are as fun, if not more fun to take its place. But for me, that was my first big boy sports car that I bought on my own.

Saved up for it. I wanted it so bad. You know, I bought my 24 Val VR six, the first one, and I put a down payment on the R 32, the same day when I had heard, you know, yes, you can get one of these. And I actually had, I had, uh, down payment to two dealerships. Cause I wasn’t sure which one was gonna get it first.

Uh, yeah, so that’s a huge one for me. And it’s, oddly enough, Baltimore calls me every once in a while and says, did you ever find your car? I’m like, is that really my job? , like, we’ll just leave it there.

Mike Crutchfield: So you, uh, you bring up the concept, but I seem to recall there was a different Volkswagen that didn’t get made that you wanted more.

No, it didn’t get made or

Crew Chief Brad: wasn’t brought to the US

Mike Crutchfield: that didn’t get made. It was the, uh, Volkswagen Blue Sport.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah. The wanna be nine 14. God, don’t remind me if you’re gonna go with

Mike Crutchfield: that, but you know what Chrissy would kill for right now? What’s that? The Tian shooting break?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I [00:23:00] saw that. That that’s pretty high.

And we’re going, we’re gonna talk about that when we do our, uh, what car should I buy? Wagons edition.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, looks so beautiful. Followed by the episode. Entitled The Cool Stuff to Europe. Gets it. We’ll never see. Mm-hmm. .

Mike Crutchfield: Uh, Buick just discontinued theirs too, but that tox was pretty hot.

Matthew Yip: I can get, I can get you one of those.

Buicks. I, I have a friend who just bought one.

Crew Chief Eric: Does he own small French cars? One. Okay. I I, then I know where my vote goes. .

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. So I’m gonna have to add on to the, uh, got away list. Eric’s trailblazer because when he did decide to sell it ,

Crew Chief Eric: you wanted to buy it that didn’t offer it to a 4,000.

Mountain Man Dan: Well, no, it was the fact that at that time I didn’t have spare funds to pay what it was worth, and I would’ve loved to have, but I couldn’t justify buying it when I have the collection that I do have already, if we’re gonna go with a couple other cars while I was stationed over in England, most people don’t think it’s much.

But for me, I, I had a German spec, Caro G six. Love that car. Unfortunately, when I went to ship it back [00:24:00] stateside things. The importer and didn’t work out and that didn’t make it stateside with me. So it’s somewhere still cruising around over in Europe, hopefully, and enjoying its life. Other vehicle that I kind of kicked myself for not getting while it was over there, body of mind now, station over there with Rizzo had a Hillman super Amp.

So those of you who don’t know what that is, look it up. Most people are gonna look at it, think it’s an ugly car. But I thought it was a really cool rear engine car that was, you know, it was an older car, but it was. Something about it. I think it would’ve been fun to go out and cruise around on the weekends with, and Brad, since you said you, uh, mentioned your Ducati, I almost brought a Ducati back from Europe with me cuz I knew what they were selling for here in the US mm-hmm.

So over there I could get it for like a quarter of the price. And with the military they would ship motorcycles and inside our, our household goods. So it didn’t count a shipping a vehicle. So I almost brought one back just for the purpose of selling it. So I could have told you had I. I’d have bought it and brought it.

Crew Chief Brad: There’s one other vehicle that I wanna talk about that I got, I had for a short time, and it’s a 71 Super Beetle. I got it from my, well, my grandfather owned it, you know, when I was very young. He [00:25:00] passed away. It ended up in my uncle’s hands. I had the grand idea that I was gonna get it and fix it up and, and just turn it into a, a street rod and, and make it really cool and everything.

Of course, I was in my early twenties and I made early twenties. Though I wasn’t able to do that, I ended up selling it to some guy for like 500 bucks and he took the, uh, the rear end out of it, the suspension out of it, and used it for a trike. So I regret getting rid of that car and if I could have a Super Beetle today, name a grandpa and have it done up the same way he had it.

Daniel, I’ve got one other question for you. Of all the cars on your property that are not running for those of you don’t, that don’t know? He’s got about 472 cars on his property right now. No, at last down

Mountain Man Dan: it was just over 30.

Crew Chief Brad: Which one? Which, which of the cars on your property do you regret is not running?

That would be the Mercury

Crew Chief Eric: Regretable wagon. Mercury stable wagon.

Mountain Man Dan: That’s a hard pass on that. . . That’s why he

Crew Chief Eric: has two. Okay.

Mountain Man Dan: No, there’s only one table. The other’s a Taurus, .

Crew Chief Brad: Excuse

Mountain Man Dan: me. [00:26:00]

Crew Chief Brad: one one. One. One’s for blue collar. The other’s for mid-level management.

Mountain Man Dan: Yes, there’s a difference. available today. Your local Earths.

Yes. Anybody interested in one hit me up. I can make you a great deal on it.

Crew Chief Brad: You can find him on Facebook Marketplace

Mountain Man Dan: for all of ’em on the property right now that do not run, I would have to say it. It does run right now, but it’s not at its final product, which is going to be my crew Cab Square body, them doing the dur, the Duramax swap in.

Crew Chief Brad: I thought you were gonna say your grand. your Pontiac or was it, is that a Bonneville?

Mountain Man Dan: It’s a Grand Prix. Yeah. It, it does run. I can start it up and drive it right now, but the reason I haven’t is the fact that I’m planning to put a stroker motor in that, and that vehicle doesn’t have the hundredth digit on the odometer and it’s sitting all zeros right now.

Cause it just hit a hundred thousand.

Crew Chief Brad: Right. So

Mountain Man Dan: I figure what better way to track mileage than putting it in with it? Reading zero.

Crew Chief Brad: You can’t argue with that.

Crew Chief Eric: I wonder though if there’s a, you know, with Mike and Dan on the line, if there’s anything about the burgundy E 36 that [00:27:00] we need to cover. Talking about regrets.

Mike Crutchfield: Yeah. Caging it in the first place. How’s that

Crew Chief Brad: Frank Time will live. I bet Mike regrets keeping it for as long as he did. And Dan regrets buying it. .

Crew Chief Eric: But I wanna talk about BMWs for a second. Matt, I mean, for me to, you. . I really like DOS Boot. And you had that seven 40 I bmw. That was such a fantastic riding car.

Granted, I didn’t have to live with any of the misery you did with its maintenance and stuff like that. Every

Matthew Yip: yuppy in America drove one. You know that they, uh, hello. I’m a. Stockbroker and I am very wealthy and I have a bmw. The ones who drove those were the same people who drove four 50 SEL Mercedes. My esteem for BMW plummeted was the E 36 was the first car that they compromised on so heavily.

The E 36 was the M car that had a single throttle body. It was production line built, and they ultimately offered an automatic because the market wind that my wife won’t let me buy [00:28:00] one because it’s a manual. Well, and, and, and to be wholly honest with you, that’s probably the one car I regret selling is the E 28 M five, compared to today’s BMWs, it’s horrible.

The seats are hard. The ride was stiff. The coolest thing about it was, and I, I read this so it’s not, actually, I didn’t come up with this, but as you drove it and you got on it really hard, it almost here, an F1 race somewhere in the back. You could, you could definitely tell when he opened up the throttle, I, I made a point of telling people that the short shift kit in my car had been installed by Rob Levinson himself, and I had the exhaust system that he designed for those cars.

Uh, I also visited him in, I think it was New York or Connecticut. I was forced. To drive his E 28, M five with a din turbo or

Crew Chief Brad: two.

Matthew Yip: Yeah. Terrible, terrible

Crew Chief Eric: thing, .

Matthew Yip: And it’s interesting, you know, as, as much as I’ve never owned a turbo car until now, the other car that I regret not buying, and I should have. Aan R has an 86, 9 [00:29:00] 30 turbo.

My uncle had a 78. That’s one that, uh, I, I could see owning. I, my uncle was incredibly generous, man. Uh, I went out for a wedding in the Bay Area and asked if I could take the car and he said, oh, take the Porsche. Go ahead. Nothing like coming across Dunbarton Bridge at two o’clock in the morning at 125 miles an hour because you can’t

Mike Crutchfield: I just wanna say it was just us lowly Americans who got the bastardized M three motor. The Europeans actually got independent throttle body, uh, M three motor.

Matthew Yip: That’s how we used to piss off the E 36 owners. They, they were the ones that were the freshly minted millionaires. They would go into the store and they’d whip out the a hundred dollars bills and said, oh yeah, real, real, real m cars have individual throttle box

And, and, and to show you what an idiot I am. There was a period of time where I owned two of the rarest German sports sedans ever built. I had Audi, Audi V eight and an E 28 M five, and I used to have people who would talk about, dude, dude, my, my, my GTIs rare because they [00:30:00] only made 20,000 in white. And I, I, I used to piss people off.

I said, I tell you what, when you have total production under 1200, call me

Crew Chief Brad: Mike, drop.

Crew Chief Eric: So Bradley, I guess the final challenge here, right? What three cars would you have in your garage?

Crew Chief Brad: Exactly, exactly. And I guess I can go ahead and kick us off here. I thought about it. For me, my, my wants and desires change.

Like I change my underwear every single day. It’s just, it’s, it’s hard to, to keep, keep my mind on one, you know, thing. But for today, the three cars that I would have in my garage, I’d have a, a Dodge Cummins Diesel. I, I’d have the dually just because I just. They’re badass man. Has anybody seen Lethal Weapon too?

When, uh, Mel Gibson takes his dually, it’s a Chevy Dually in that movie, and he pulls down that, that house up on stilts from the beach and everything. I’ve, I’ve seen a better

Mike Crutchfield: video. That’s, uh, one of our members, Nick, doing donuts around a skid pad in a dually diesel.

Crew Chief Brad: Big, big girls need love too. I want a, I want a dooly.

So, so that’s, that’s the first one, because I need something to tow my track car. Right, right. So the next vehicle I’m gonna have in my [00:31:00] garage is a Porsche nine 11. I’ve wanted one, I don’t know why, since I was a kid. I used to be a huge Ferrari fan, but they’re fragile and they, they like to barbecue themselves.

So I, I, I think I really wanted nine 11. It’s. , it advertises the everyday supercar. I mean, you can drive it to the grocery store, you drive it to the track the next day, go pick up your kids, your whatever. You, you can do anything with it. So I, I kind of, I won a nine 11. I don’t know which one I want to, A GT three Rs would be cool.

Um, but just a base, uh, regular nine 11 with a manual. I thought it would be a great car to have, uh, in, in my garage and. A wrangler with a motor swap something, I can take the doors off of the, the top off of uh, and just enjoy, you know, the weather. That would be my convertible. So yeah. And then for an honorable mention the Volvo V 90 Wagon, cuz I just think that they’re beautiful cars.

So Mount Man Dan,

Mountain Man Dan: you guys know that I have trouble with limiting down to three 300. 300 I GED

Crew Chief Brad: four.

Mountain Man Dan: That’s more real. I would have to say one of the cars I would definitely have, only because it’s been one of my favorite cars since I was a kid, [00:32:00] 57 Chevy Bel Air. Some people think it’s an overrated car cuz so many other people liked them and everything, but any of the, try five, you know, 55, 3 57.

But I like the big pins on the 57. If I had one, I would definitely have it modernized with an LS in it. But I, I should actually ask a question. Prior to listening to ’em all, how big is this? Because, oh man. It’s,

Crew Chief Brad: it’s, it, the island is a metaphor. It’s just the, the question is, if you’re going on a desert island, you can only take so many things with you.

Essentially, your island is your three car garage. You can only have three cars for the rest of your life. Did, did anybody else

Crew Chief Eric: just hear the theme Music from Sanford and Sun?

Mountain Man Dan: Um, other than that, I would definitely have one of my square box, shocker, . I would have to have one of my square bodies and of, of the, of the 15 year span of square bodies.

Which year do you pick? And the span of square bodies is more than 15 years. Just so you Yeah. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s like that Johnny Cash on 51, 52, 53 .

Mountain Man Dan: Honestly, like, so if I were to take one of ’em, it would [00:33:00] probably be between my K five, which was my brother. before, uh, he was killed, or it would be my shorted two-wheel drive that my brother helped me bill before he died.

So probably be one of those two. Although I’d possibly option for one of the four-wheel drive crew cab trucks, square bodies that I have because I might need to tow something. And then for my third car in the garage for years, I’ve always said I would never own. Volkswagen Jet? No, . Um, for the longest time I always said that I would never own a Cadillac cuz they were an overpriced Chevrolet.

And then Cadillac did me dirty and came out with the Ctsv and I fell in love

Crew Chief Eric: man. I thought he was gonna say the xlr cuz that was gonna be a. Big points win right there. I want the, I want the Simeron.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Or or the Kotera. He wants the Kotera. I’m cheap.

Mountain Man Dan: I’m cheap. I will take the citation.

Crew Chief Brad: Thank you

Mountain Man Dan: very much.

But so, so those will be my three vehicles, but I’m going to add a cheater to that. One of my Harley’s is gonna be in the bed of the truck.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, there you. [00:34:00]

Mountain Man Dan: That’s

Crew Chief Brad: a smart move. Boy, I’m, I’ve got a garage big enough to fit a dually in. So I mean, come on now, ,

Matthew Yip: if we, if we do it right, we can build some sort of a rack system, we can drive the Lotus in the back of my truck.

Crew Chief Eric: challenge accepted. All right, so Mike, what’s your three on your island?

Mike Crutchfield: I’m weird. I, uh, where it goes without saying, I have a thing for wagons and I don’t know why. There’s one wagon in particular that Volkswagen actually made, which I just feel like I haven’t to screwed around. B five Passat wagon, all-wheel drive stick shift.

W eight with the W eight motor. Yes, yes, yes. excellent

Crew Chief Eric: choice. The unicorn

Mike Crutchfield: of unicorns. I actually saw one for sale not that long ago.

Crew Chief Brad: There’s a reason It was for sale .

Mike Crutchfield: Well, yeah, cuz the W eight maintenance. It came with

Crew Chief Eric: a spare. Audi four, two that you can swap into it. ,

Matthew Yip: the best thing about those cars is how you change the oh two sensor

Crew Chief Brad: engine out

Matthew Yip: lift, lift, lift the carpet and drill the hole on the floor.

Mike Crutchfield: You know, as, as something that can [00:35:00] be kind of dual purpose. Ctsv wagon, that’s a win right there. Major points.

Matthew Yip: Good luck finding one of those at a price. Well,

Mike Crutchfield: and, and they have a habit of getting stolen these days.

Matthew Yip: That’s what I mean. I mean, you know, what, what were they new? They were $50,000 new and now they’re $70,000.

Mike Crutchfield: I don. Number three. Probably something stupid like an R eight. Nice.

Crew Chief Eric: I figured you would’ve thrown in the Kiwi station wagon you wrote about while you were over in New Zealand. What was that? Oh, the Holden Commodore HSV Wagon or whatever that was.

Mike Crutchfield: No, no, it was so, yeah, actually there’s a Holden Commodore H S V Ute.

I mean, just a, a whole bunch of the stuff I saw over there was really cool. But those, uh, some of those Holden h s v worked over Utes are amazing. They did the full thing like Dodge did with, when they came out with Challenger. They offer them in bright, obnoxious colors that look amazing on that thing, like a bright lime electric green.

Crew Chief Eric: I hope you and Dan enjoy your Mary Kay Cadillacs. That’s, that’s really nice. . Uh, but we’ll move on to Matthew .

Matthew Yip: The colors Chrysler used, they were from the, [00:36:00] they were from the seventies. They were, they were just retro, you know, what was it? Vitamin C and, uh, plum. Plum crazy. Oh, they were, they were, I mean, they were great names.

You know, cuz you, you see ’em today and they’re just,

Crew Chief Eric: I’ll pause you there in the colors just to add a little bit of color. Yeah. Uh, have you ever seen, and this was a factory card, the color pattern challenger, which featured every stripe of every color that was available at that time from Chrysler. It was a factory produced car and apparently it.

Today in a museum it was reproduced or, or, or whatever. It’s actually really, really neat and the story behind why that car was developed to showcase all those crazy colors like Sublime Green and, and Plum crazy, and all these other ones that we talked about. So I thought that’s a pretty neat piece of history there.

Matthew Yip: I like the Harlequin Gold. I hate to admit that I liked the new Challenger because I really wanted to hate it and then I drove one and well, you know, the 3 92, you just can’t, you just can’t, uh, you just can’t say no to it. But I wanted to find one in purple and I have yet to find one.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I was gonna say, it, it, it was a [00:37:00] hard choice between going with the nine 11 for my, you know, dream garage or the Hellcat, cuz I, I really want a hell cat, but I just feel that the nine 11.

Would’ve been a better Just all around performer. Yeah. Which is why I elected to, to have that in my, my theoretical garage. Well, what about you, Matt? What are, what are you thinking for your, your garage, your dream garage?

Matthew Yip: If I could afford to do it every day, I would drive that pickup truck of mine, not, not worry about a car.

I alternate between liking the dually and liking the single rear wheel. I drove the exact same truck I have now in a dually and ended up buying this. 22 years later, the single rear wheel ain’t bad. It fits in parking spaces better, although within 20 foot long truck, as Dan knows, you don’t really fit in parking spaces anyway, so I, I’d probably have something like that, you know, full, full size truck.

Mountain Man Dan: The key thing about yours is it’s manual instead of the automatically had behind it.

Matthew Yip: In fact, I would tell the dealers as I was looking for those, I says, you know, I’m looking for an F three 50. You know, you’d see that look and they’d, uh, I, you know, I want the [00:38:00] diesel. And of course you’d get even more. and I looked at him.

I says, oh yeah, and it’s gotta be a manual cuz I never learned how to drive an automatic . My mom

Crew Chief Eric: says the exact same thing, .

Matthew Yip: As much as I like the nine 30 Turbo, I’ve had a fascination with these cars since I was 10 years old. I want a real cobra. My high school friend, hi. His, his dad. You, you’ve heard me talk about him.

Uh, my friend Billy’s, he had a super performance Cobra, which is the, uh, factory approved fiberglass version of the original AC Cobra. His, however, happened to have a 4 27 side wheeler in it. You know, the motor that the block is worth, like 20 grand. There’s just something about those cars. They, they said more than one buyer did not make it to the first payment.

They said you wouldn’t. A first time shooter, a 44 Magnum, just like you wouldn’t put them in a 4 27 Cobra.

Crew Chief Brad: Agreed. And

Matthew Yip: I like, and I, and I like that. I like, I like a car. You’ve gotta respect.

Crew Chief Brad: So, so we’ve got your, your Ford, we’ve got your, your, the biggest truck in the world and the smallest car in the world.

Your Cobra. What are you gonna [00:39:00] put in between

Matthew Yip: if I could find another one? And they were only 53 ever built. I really liked my Audi v8. It was an interesting car. Nobody knew what the hell it was. The automatic trans. Suck. It was a four speed speed that was geared for Europe. So just like a Mercedes, if you’ve ever driven a Mercedes, as you pull away, it starts off in second gear and it’s really soft.

Now, when you’re going about a hundred miles an hour and you put your foot down, it moves, unfortunately until you get to about, I don’t know, 40. It’s a slug. I, I, I, I hate to say I like the car. I mean, quatros are amazing cars to drive. They stick like glue. The sophistication in the, in the, uh, 90 to 93 Audi V8 Quat.

Is amazing. Uh, I would, I would venture to say that it was more technically advanced in its day than anything else on the road. You know, there, there, there certainly weren’t a lot of all-wheel drive cars. This thing had switchable abs, uh, front and rear fog lights, which were

Crew Chief Eric: unheard

Matthew Yip: of in the

Crew Chief Eric: us. And not to mention when my parents were looking at their coop, Quatro, the salesman, you know, was [00:40:00] showing off a black on black V8 Quatro, which was very rare color combination.

Cause all of them were Pearl White for the most. It was, uh, one of the only cars at the time to have an integrated car phone. And that was a selling point.

Matthew Yip: Yes. Yes. Well, the, the, you know, the neat thing was it had a ski sack and all four seats were heated. Put that all in perspective. You know, we, uh, Eric and I have had this, this, these conversations before as well, which is, yeah.

But that car, you know, that car sucked, right? But in 1988, the E 28 M five was amazing. But the v8, the V8 was more practic. I, I made the mistake of driving a E 28 M five to work one day when it snowed. My boss’s boss and I were, were in the car as I am idling out of the parking lot sideways. And he’s laughing at, because he goes, what the hell’s with this thing?

Well, that’s how a high horsepower car with, uh, with independent suspension and, and, and some tires happens to handle the weather. The Quatro, as long as you put real tires on it. And I, I learned that from experience was unstoppable. Uh, I drove it to work one day and [00:41:00] there was probably two inches of snow in the fast lane and all the, uh, all the big giant SUVs were poking along in the, in the clear flow lane at about 20 miles an hour.

And I went by them at about 35, you know, rooster tails of snow with my seat heater on and the radio on cruising along as if it were dry. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think those would be my, my, my three.

Crew Chief Eric: So what I’ve heard so far is we’re on an island. Yes. There’s no price point. We got guys bringing trucks to transport, I don’t know, coconuts or something.

We got Mike with the station wagon for to, to move Aborigines around.

Crew Chief Brad: Again, the island is a metaphor. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: is it? So I, I’m defining the island here and I’ve defined my island as Nu Burging. Uh, yeah, it’s definitely a racetrack. .

Mike Crutchfield: I mean, New Zealand has race. And is kind of an island, just saying, and you’re

Crew Chief Eric: transporting sheep.

I mean, you got all these wagons on your island. I’m not sure what’s going on here. Seven sheep per person. . Yes, they are warm and infection animals. Indeed. Thank you, Matthew. So on my [00:42:00] island, on the other hand, I would have a 70 Challenger RT in white with a vanity plate that says Kowalski.

Mountain Man Dan: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay. Very straightforward car.

That’s Oh yeah. Dirt primitive, big v8. And just go rip roar and have. In addition to that, I want a metallic emerald green Mark Onesco with a 16 Val swat.

Crew Chief Brad: I swear I I thought you were gonna say a Buick Skylar convertible there.

Crew Chief Eric: Uh, again, my money is on the Chevy Citation. Thank you very, very much.

Mike Crutchfield: h HR

Crew Chief Eric: that will not be on my island, no Prius’s.

They will be bazookas and turrets ready to blow those. At first sight. So in addition to that, I would have to say, I gotta have a Gen one viper, but not the Gen one Viper you’re thinking of, it’s not a GTS coop, it’s not a target. I would have the defender from Viper, the TV series because hey, it’s my island, and apparently no one else lives on there, so why

Mountain Man Dan: not enjoy my boyish fantasy?

So I have to, [00:43:00] The defender, does it count as multiple vehicles since it’s got your off-road option, your water option? Well,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s why I want it on my island because realistically it is an s u v. Okay. It is a sport utility vehicle. I can turn it into a pontoon, I can turn it into, it’s an all sorts of things.

He’s,

Crew Chief Brad: he’s gonna use it to get off his island .

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. And I will also use it to blow up Prius’s and h. But realistically, because I can’t have a movie car, it’s a really hard tie between what’s available. Since we’re in un unlike, we’ve set no budget. If I could get an F 40, that would definitely be in my garage.

That is a car that in 87 when it came out, I have never stopped loving that car. It’s an incredible design. It still looks good today. I’ve seen him in person. I can’t wait to drive one in my afterlife. I don’t know. But it’s, if I couldn’t have one of. I would definitely have a black on Black Alpha gtv. Six mm And this is the 1980s version like we [00:44:00] saw on Top Gear.

Not too long or the Grand Tour. . All kidding aside, Brad, take us home. I

Crew Chief Brad: think we’ve heard some really interesting, uh, debate here on, on what people want, why they want it. Uh, I don’t necessarily agree with everybody’s choices, but I’m sure nobody agrees with my choices either. And that’s the beauty of individuality and that’s the debate we call.

What should I. , what should I buy? Yep. Which there will be plenty of other episodes discussing all kinds of different car categories for what should I buy. So on that note, I guess we’ll go ahead and wrap it up. Thank you. Thank you Matt, Mike, and Dan for, for stopping by. And we welcome you guys for future episodes.

Mountain Man Dan: So just, uh, since you mentioned you were making a list of your vehicles, I decided to start, I’m nowhere near done so when I do get it done for a future episode, we’ll know how many vehicles I have owned over my, uh, span of. But I’m only up to high school years now. I’m sitting at about 30.

Crew Chief Eric: Is there a database big enough to store this list?

Crew Chief Brad: What’s the over under on him finishing that list and

Crew Chief Eric: on that

Crew Chief Brad: disappointment, . [00:45:00]

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly.

It folds full disclosure. Our high level assessment of all the cars on this list is really based on our members and our and owner experiences. We urge you to do your own research and fact check everything before committing to any one of these vehicles. G T M and Brad and I specifically, we’re not responsible for your satisfaction, your happiness with whatever vehicle you choose.

So make sure to visit, you know, vehicle specific online forums and or owners clubs for highly detailed firsthand information on any vehicle you might be interested

Crew Chief Brad: in. If you like what you heard and wanna learn more about gtm, be sure to check us out@www.gt motorsports.org. You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Touring Motorsports.

Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email. Crew chief at GT Motorsports do. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey [00:46:00] listeners, crucifer here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from gtm? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going.

So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www.patreon.com/gt motorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help.

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

What about the Crew Chiefs?

Brad shares three regrets: a Ducati 748 he rarely rode, a bright red ’98 Camaro SS he sold to chase the STI trend, and a lifted ’97 Jeep Wrangler TJ he adored. “I’ll have that Jeep again someday,” he promises. The panel calls a yellow flag on his future Murano CrossCabriolet plans, but Brad insists there’s room in his garage for both.

Eric’s earliest regret? His dad’s triple-black 1986 Scirocco 16V. Pre-ordered and autocrossed, it was supposed to be Eric’s someday. But when it was sold, he watched it drive away, heartbroken. “That was supposed to be my car,” he told his mom. Years later, driving Matt’s Scirocco helped him heal – but the sting remains.

Honorable Mentions & Deep Cuts

Matt’s rental car adventures include autocrossing a Chrysler Sebring convertible and favoring white Crown Vics for stealth and comfort.
Eric mourns the VW Concept R and his stolen 2004 Golf R32, a show car turned personal icon.
Dan recalls a German-spec Corrado G60 and a quirky Hillman Super Minx he never bought.
The infamous burgundy E36, passed between Mike and Dan, gets a nod as a shared regret.
Brad’s grandfather’s ’71 Super Beetle, sold for $500 and turned into a trike, still tugs at his heart.

🏁 Final Lap: What We Learned

Regret is part of the car culture. Whether it’s a missed deal, a sentimental loss, or a vehicle ruined by someone else’s vision, these stories remind us that cars are more than machines – they’re memories, milestones, and sometimes, missed chances. So next time you’re tempted to sell, pause. That car might be your future “one that got away.”

Don’t agree, let’s agree to disagree? Come share your opinions and continue the conversation on the Break/Fix Discord!

There's more to this story!

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Mentioned during the show… Brad, Mike and Daniel and others wanted to share their “I had one of those” list with the listeners.

Brad

1990 Honda Civic
2001 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T
1997 Ducati 748
1999 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
1994 Chevrolet Suburban
1996 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra
2004 Volkswagen GTI VR6
2001 Audi S8
2006 Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1998 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007 Subaru STI2005 Acura RL
2010 Honda Civic
2002 Honda Civic
2008 Yamaha Raider S
2001 Ford Crown Victoria
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
2003 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Hemi
2017 Toyota Tundra
2004 VW Golf TDI

Crutch

93 Dodge Ram Mark V conversion Van
86 Cutlass Supreme Coupe w/302 V8
2000 Nissan Frontier King Cab SE V6 4×4
2006 VW Jetta TDI
2006 BMW E90 325i
2008 BMW 135i Convertible
2007 VW Rabbit
2011 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI
2002 Ford F150 extended cab
1995 BMW 325i
1993 BMW 325i
2012 VW Passat
2008 Chevy Tahoe
2003 VW Turbo Beetle
2017 Nissan Titan XD Quad Can 4×4 Diesel
2008 VW Jetta

Crew Chief Eric

1987.5 Audi Coupe GT
1985 Audi Coupe GT
1983 Audi (ur)Quattro Coupe + V8
2003 Golf GTI VR6 24v
2004 Golf .:R32
2004 Jetta TDI PD-150
2003 Golf 2.slow
2000 Audi TT Coupe FWD
1989 Golf GTI 16v
2011 Golf TDI 2dr 6-spd
1990 Audi Coupe Quattro 20v
2012 Golf TDI 4dr DSG
2013 Jetta SportWagon TDI DSG
2008 Chevy Trailblazer SS
1995 BMW E36 ///M3
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee eco-Diesel
2003 Golf GTI 1.8T APR-Stage3
2003 Golf GTI VR6 24v “YURI”
2015 Cadillac SRX-4
2003 Golf Estate VR6 24v #wookiewagon
2019 Chrysler Pacifica S Hybrid
1974 Porsche 914 Slantnose
2004 VW Passat B5.5 Wagon 4-motion 1.8T
2003 VW GTI 1.8T “eddie” > JOLF

Mountain Man Dan

VW Baja Bug
64 Chevy II Nova
82 Chevy Cavilier
81 Toyota Corolla
83 Pontiac Grand Prix LJ
86 Pontiac Grand Prix
91 Chevy S10
77 Pontiac Trans Am
Saab 9000 CDE
BMW E30
BMW 525
88 Austin Mini
89 Austin Mini
83 Austin Mini
91 Rover Mini
86 Austin Mini Cooper
77 Leyland Mini Clubman
Mazda B2500 Diesel
98 Nissan Sentra
92 Honda Accord98 VW Jetta
94 Honda Accord
89 Chevy K1500 Silverado
95 Chevy K1500 Silverado
99 Chevy C3500 Silverado
77 GMC K30 Sierra
81 GMC K30 Sierra
82 Chevy C10 Silverado
83 Chevy C10 Silverado
84 Chevy K5 Blazer
86 Chevy K10 Silverado
87 Chevy Suburban
91 GMC R30 Sierra
85 Chevy C10
66 Ford F100
99 Ford Taurus
05 Ford Taurus
99 Mercury
96 Chevy K1500 Silverado
96 Dodge Neon
04 VW Jetta TDI BEW
01 VW Jetta TDI ALH
01 VWJetta TDI ALH
03 VW Jetta 1.8T
04 VW Jetta 1.8T
02 VW Jetta 2.0
03 VW GTI 1.8T
03 VW GTI 1.8T
02 VW Jetta 2.0
BMW E36
82 Chevy C10 Silverado
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Chevy Malibu
86 GMC C30 Sierra Dump Truck
94 Chevy S10 Blazer
91 VW Corrado G60
07 Chevy K2500 Silverado Duramax
09 Chevy K3500 Silverado Duramax Dually
86 Chevy Z28 Camaro
91 Chevy Astro Van
05 VW Jetta 2.5
96 Honda Civic
Suzuki Samarai
AND MORE!!!

Thanks to our panel of Petrol-heads!

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Mike Crutchfield

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Matthew Yip

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

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TunerLog: Integration and the Road Ahead

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Why Packard?

Parts, Mods, and Maintenance

Getting Started: What to Buy (and Avoid)

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Game Play Experience

“I was just watching a game play video and it looks like a mobile game; It looks like a downgrade from PC2”

“I heard they got rid of tire wear”

“From the videos I’ve watched, I am probably gonna pass on PC3. The physics just look jank”

More tracks, More interesting cars…

“I personally don’t like the tracks. I haven’t driven on any real tracks really except for Brands Hatch (that I recognize anyway)”

Multi-Player (Online) Experience

“Are they releasing PC on the new system (XBOX Series X)? I don’t want to buy another game for the XBOX One since the Series X will be coming out.”

“Wow – of the 3 Amazon reviews. 2 people said the graphics are terrible… Looks like an Xbox-360 game”

“So what’s the verdict on PC3 – Is it worth it?”

Notable builds from this Season

Season 2.5 😉

And to Mike, Connor, Avery and the entire RVR team … we wish you the best of luck during these trying times. #staysafe.

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Notes

What Makes WDCR HPDE Unique?

Transcript

Highlights

Track Night vs. HPDE: What’s the Difference?

What Do You Need to Get Started?

Is It Safe?

Why Choose WDCR SCCA HPDE?

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Showcase

Automotive, EV & Car-Adjacent News

Domestics

EVs & Concepts

Formula One

Lost & Found

Did You know… Tom Cruise, raced for Nissan?

Lower Saxony

Lowered Expectations

Squarebody Chevy, hauls 32,000 pounds of wood.

Check out how a tire works, from the inside!

Lego working Rotary

XXL lego go-kart

Motorsports

Rich People Thangs!

Stellantis

Tesla

TRANSCRIPT

Highlights

Would you like fries with that?

There's more to this story!

Other episodes that aired this month…

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Spotlight

Highlights

Transcript

Learn More

The MINI Curse Begins

There's more to this story!

As Eric put it, “Friends are the family you choose.” And in the GTM community, the Latton Lads are family.

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Spotlight

Notes

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

**As Eric put it, “Friends are the family you choose.” And in the GTM community, the Latton Lads are family.**