spot_img
Home Blog Page 51

B/F: The Drive Thru #1

0

The Drive Thru is GTM’s monthly automotive news episode, featuring hosts Brad, Eric, and Tania. Sponsored by several automotive organizations, the episode covers a range of topics from industry news to car reviews. Highlights include discussions on the Mustang Mach E 1400, Tesla’s Model 3 performance package, and the Audi e-tron’s electric future. They also talk about unique cars like the Dodge Demon concept, the electric Bugatti Baby 2, and the Brazilian VW SP2. Additionally, there’s a humorous segment on ‘Florida Man’ stories and updates on local racing events and international motorsports news. The episode wraps up with club news and shout-outs to various contributors and members.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

Showcase: Our First News Episode!

Rate It: Dodge’s Attempt at a Miata-Fighter

Before the founding of FCA in 2014 and before the relaunch of the Challenger in 2008, Dodge was taking aim at small sports cars like the Mazda Miata back in 2007. ... [READ MORE]

M​OVE OVER BRONCO! A REAL BLAZER IS ON ITS WAY.

G​M might be trying to get into the "retro off-road" game after all. ... [READ MORE]

McLaren set for F1 reunion with Gulf Oil in new sponsorship deal

McLaren is set to bring the iconic Gulf Oil brand back to Formula 1 as part of a new sponsorship deal ... [READ MORE]

Tesla Model 3 race car breaks track record, sets eyes on Pikes Peak

Unplugged Performance built an electric race car using a Tesla Model 3 Performance in just a week and the race car has already broken a track record and now they set their eyes on the Pikes Peak hill climb. ... [READ MORE]

8k-Mile 1988 BMW M3 - Sold for $250k

SOLD FOR $250,000 ON 7/22/20  ... [READ MORE]

**All photos and articles are dynamically aggregated from the source; click on the image or link to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors, publishers or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.


Automotive, EV & Car-Adjacent News

Domestics

EVs & Concepts

Lost & Found

Lowered Expectations

Motorsports

Rich People Thangs!

VAG & Porsche

TRANSCRIPT

Executive Producer Tania: [00:00:00] The Drive Thru is GTM’s monthly news episode and is sponsored in part by organizations like HPTEjunkie. com, Hooked on Driving, AmericanMuscle. com, CollectorCarGuide. net, Project Motoring, Garage Style Magazine, and many others. If you are interested in becoming a sponsor of the Drive Thru, look no further than www.

gtmotorsports. org. Click about, and then advertising. Thank you again to everyone that supports Grand Touring Motorsports, our podcast, BrakeFix, and all the other services we provide.

Crew Chief Brad: What’s going on, everybody? Welcome to BrakeFix. I’m your host, Brad. With me, as always, is Eric. Heyo! We also have Tanya with us tonight. Hello! Tonight, we’re going to do something a little different. Since it’s the end of the month, we’ve got tons of automotive news to talk about. We’re going to do, start a new segment called The Drive Thru.

And basically this is our monthly recap where we put together a menu of local, racing, and random car adjacent news. [00:01:00] So, let’s pull up to the window and get into story number one.

Crew Chief Eric: Hi, can I

take an

Crew Chief Eric: order? Give me a, uh,

liter of cola. A what? A liter of cola. Liter of cola. Do we make liter of cola? Alright, alright, relax!

Crew Chief Brad: This is just industry news. So first, the Mustang Mach E 1400.

Crew Chief Eric: So I watched the video. I thought it was pretty epic. And, and, I think it’s really cool.

Crew Chief Brad: I think it’s actually pretty damn awesome. At least the video was awesome. And after watching the video, it made me want to go out and buy a Mach E. Now I know that the Mach E that’s going to be the production model that’s coming out soon, if it’s not out already.

It’s going to be completely different. I think Ford, Ford was trying to make a statement because there’s all these people out there. We’re part of them. Poo pooing the idea of performance, like all electric cars. And I think Ford’s just making a statement like, look, electric cars can be, you know, performance cars.

We’ve, we’re going to take this thing all the way to [00:02:00] the extreme and show you just what it can do. And I think the race, the comparison between all the different types of racing, the different types of vehicles that they have in their performance lineup and their. They’re sponsored race cars and having this thing go up against them in the video.

Granted, it was probably edited to look like the car was performing a lot better than it actually was, but still. 1400 horsepower out of a grocery getter. Yeah, it’s pretty insane. They, it’ll never see the light of day for us, but I mean, nobody’s going to have their actual production Mach E and they’re not going to have.

You know, 1400 horsepower doing burnouts all the way down to the, uh, the Aldi’s, but I think it’s pretty cool.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s exciting. It’s, it’s just, you know, showing what you can do with electric cars. I, I mean, I think it’s trying to break the stigma that electric cars are just, you know, sort of like the original Prius and they’re boring and all they do is, like you said, go be a grocery gutter, but they’re capable of more and, you know, there’s already the Formula E series electric formula cars and, you [00:03:00] know, There’s probably going to be more electric racing in the future, so Ford is showcasing, you know, what they can do and they have a long racing heritage.

They should get into the game. Why not?

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, I don’t disagree. We were fortunate to see the Mach E at the DC Auto Show before everything kind of closed up here at the beginning of 2020. It’s a really good looking car in person. I don’t think the pictures do it justice. It has that kind of shooting break look to it.

It gave me some feels and I wrote about this in the article and I would love to test drive a stock one. I don’t know. It’s still very cool. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s a very cool video. If you haven’t seen it, watch it. But has it sold me any more on the idea of electric? I don’t know. We’re going to find out.

We’re going to talk more about electric cars here. I got to say though, at the end of the day, if the sound of that car. Is the future of racing.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s terrible. It’s

Crew Chief Eric: God awful. Let’s make it silent, silent film, please. Because that is, that is a sound that I don’t think I could tolerate for more than the length of that video, to be honest with you.

Crew Chief Brad: Okay. Well, let’s step away from the [00:04:00] Mach E, but I want to talk about the Tesla. I don’t care about them trying to compete at Pikes Peak. I want to talk about the car that they built. The article that we, we read, it was with the model three race car brakes track record. At Willow Springs. Buttonwillow. No, yeah, Buttonwillow.

Yeah, I’m sorry. Uh huh. And basically, yeah, they go through, they talk about the car. It’s this performance shop that only works on Teslas, or I guess electric cars, called Unplugged Performance. And they, they have their eyes, or their sights set on the 911s, the GT3RS more specifically. I mean, they mention it a couple times in the article, and then how they beat the 991 GT3RS’s lap time.

It goes into the kind of the electric cars can be great performance cars as well. Look at us, we can do it too. Or anything you can do, I can do better kind of thing. And they say you can buy this package for this car. It’s only 35 grand for everything that they did to this car.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, insult to injury, they did it [00:05:00] on street tires.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, they did it on a Michelin Cup 2 tires, which I don’t know what tires come on the GT3 RS. Probably something similar, I would guess.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I mean, that’s the only other similarity between the Tesla and the nine 11, except for their handling. ’cause if you’ve driven a Tesla with any sort of vigor, it handles a lot like a nine 11.

So it makes sense that they chose that to go up against, because I, I can’t see it going against a perfor or 4 88, you know, or anything like that. It’s just, I get it. It’s a David and Goliath story, but I think the nine 11 or the 9 9 1 in this case has graduated beyond. Consumer streetcar status for a long time.

The 9 11 was always kind of nipping at the heels of the supercars and the hypercars. I think it’s finally earned its place in that rank. But I don’t think a Tesla three has earned enough merit badges to get there yet.

Crew Chief Brad: But also, so I was reading through the article and it said that the quote from the owner, the CEO of Unplugged performance that they took this [00:06:00] Ascension R package of basically bolt on street tune upgrades.

So I went to their website and I looked at everything that they did. So yeah, they’ve got suspension, they’ve got brake upgrades, they’ve got body kits, you know, with carbon fiber bits and stuff like that. Everything says bespoke, everything’s a little custom and bespoke and one off. And I don’t know if they’re selling a package to a bunch of people, how it’s all one off, but whatever.

So they’ve got ultra lightweight wheels, the sticky tires, the Michelin tires and everything. Then they’ve got these bespoke racing seats. Now, I don’t remember them being a bolt on. And when I look at the pictures of the car, the car is gutted. It’s got the two racing seats, but there’s no back seat in here.

And in the video, you see part of the dash, there was no dash. All you saw was ECU and a bunch of other like wires and stuff. So that’s not a bolt on car.

Crew Chief Eric: And the same way that the Mach E 1400 isn’t your run of the mill Mach E. So yes, it’s another purpose built race car. David and Goliath story here. So, I don’t know, I’m still coming to terms with the whole [00:07:00] electric idea.

I don’t know that it’s for me yet. I don’t think there’s a car out there that gets my jollies. Like, you know, like I still like a petrol powered car does, but I think there’s a couple of the ones that we’re going to talk about here in a minute that, that, you know, may bend me in that direction.

Crew Chief Brad: No, it is.

Tanya actually has experience being in a Tesla on a racetrack. I don’t know. You didn’t even get a chance to drive it, but you were at least right seat. Can you tell us about your experience with that and if you think this is a good idea to build a Tesla performance, like straight on race car,

Executive Producer Tania: I did get to actually drive it on the track.

It was during warm up. So we weren’t, you know, supposed to go in full out. We weren’t wearing helmets. It was, you know, very spirited driving around the track. And I mean, for the most part, the car was fine and it was pretty neutral. The most disconcerting part was coming down straightaway into turn at Shenandoah and the nannies, I guess.[00:08:00]

I don’t know what it thought because I wasn’t fully all the way over to the right on the curbing, but it actually lane corrected. That pretty good speed, uh, down the straightaway. I don’t know what it sensed it saw, but it literally jerked the steering wheel. We made like a left lane change and I, if you can’t turn all that stuff off, I would be very apprehensive to drive one of those on the racetrack.

So hopefully there’s the ability to shut all that down. Otherwise, I mean, it does get tail happy. I have experienced one on the street before. It’s very easy to step out the rear end because lift throttle is. Huge because it’s on or off. It’s not, you know, it’s a lot more difficult, more to get used to with the whole feathering, the throttle and all that, because the power is instantaneous.

If you lift and mash the throttle back down, I mean, it’s going to want to step the rear end out on you. So. Obviously, there’s still a lot of work to race prep one of these. I mean, the article talked about how they basically grabbed all this [00:09:00] body kit, suspension, et cetera, et cetera, and threw it all together in three days.

And I wonder, okay, how much testing did you do? If you watch the video of him, the lap, whoever it is, he’s driving. Um, I mean, it’s the rear end stepped out a couple of times. It got swirly. And at one point they even corrected, they just drove off the track and kind of cut the turn a little bit, um, not to probably spin out.

I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s evolution, you know, there’s probably going to be a, who knows, maybe it’ll be a Tesla series and it’ll just be very quiet and a bunch of people whirling around hearing tire noises. SCCA, spec Tesla.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, I think a couple years ago there was an article that I read on Jalopnik about how they were trying to start a Tesla Model S race series and they were looking for drivers to, I guess, to compete.

Now, I’m looking here at the list of all the parts on the Ascension R package, and aside from, you know, the suspension bits, and the wheels, the harness, the seats, side skirts, and the [00:10:00] bumper, and all the, you know, the good bits there, it doesn’t say anything about tuning, so I don’t know, I mean, Tesla may lock down their tuning where you can’t, they can’t do anything to that.

They say that you can have a lap time as fast as a GT3 RS for half the money. So I wanted to look this up too, of course. So the Tesla is 54, 000 without the government, you know, the government credit of 7, 500. So it’s 54, 000. And then you add this package to get there to their results. So you add another 35, 000.

So what’s that 90, 000, a GT three RS, 253, 000. So yeah, it’s, it’s less than half the cost, but still, which would you rather have the Tesla model three with all this crap on it, or the GT three RS go Eric. Porsche, Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I need to know how many laps you can actually do before

Crew Chief Brad: you’re not going to be able to drive your Tesla home.

You got to tell it.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I probably would go with the 9

Crew Chief Brad: 11. I would go with the 9 11 even just to sell the 9 11 and buy 3 more [00:11:00] Teslas.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I’m not necessarily against the Tesla. I mean, they’re not being built to be at high performance. So, I mean, there’s there’s still got to be a lot of. Tuning of the suspension and things like that.

I mean, the weight balance is completely different. There’s no honking. Hundreds of pounds of motor at the front or the back. Where do you dial that in? They probably still have a long way to go.

Crew Chief Brad: I mean, I don’t know why they’re going after the GT3 RS, but this is an age old story. You can buy the greatest performance car in the world for 1 million dollars, or you can buy an HHR and put 50 grand into it, and you can have the fastest thing in the world.

Who cares? You’re still driving home in a shitbox. I mean, a Tesla, Tesla should be compared to an M3. Or you know, an Audi S four. The things, I think those things are more in there,

Crew Chief Eric: but to your point, they’ve already proven that in a drag race, the Tesla is faster than an M five and an M three and all these other cars.

So, I mean, I saw what even recently where it was on fifth Gear, I think it was, [00:12:00] and they drag raced an S four with the V eight and all that stuff, or whatever. The latest engine they have twin turbo V six or whatever it is against the model three. And the model three obliterated it even. You know, even with just rear wheel drive and just putting his foot to the floor because the electric puts all the power to the ground.

But at the end of the day, what can I do with that Audi that I can’t do with the Tesla? And there’s a lot of things on that list. Yeah. Well, and I think that leads right into the next topic.

Executive Producer Tania: Um, I mean, there was an article from the new CEO of Audi and basically the headline was Audi admits behind the times, all electric cars.

And I mean, they’re not the only one and kudos for them for standing up and saying it, um, they’re behind on the technology. Audi and all the major manufacturers aren’t battery makers, right? And Tesla from the get go was all about the battery and the other technology that’s wrapped in the cars itself.

You know, the easy part is the sheet [00:13:00] metal, I’d say. I mean, the first Tesla was basically a Lotus. That they retrofitted batteries into so okay. Yeah, but the major manufacturers. Yeah, they have ground to catch up. They’ve got the assembly. They’ve got the designs. They’ve got the reliability

Crew Chief Eric: chain logistics.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, I mean, they’ve got a whole different piece of the pie, but they’re also trying to retrofit ICE, internal combustion engine cars, to have batteries versus Tesla was building a car around a battery. So there’s a bit of a difference.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, not only that, and I actually just had this conversation today at work.

Most people don’t realize Tesla is really a software company. I mean, granted they’re in the energy business because of the Tesla batteries and the power wall and solar city and all that other kind of stuff. And that’s really where their R and D is right in that electrical technology, wherever they’re getting their assistance from.

And we know for a fact that the original Tesla roadster was a Lotus Elise. There was rumors that the Tesla model S was actually a Jag, you know, [00:14:00] stuff like that, I don’t know how much of it is truth or fiction. It doesn’t really matter. But at the end of the day, everybody that’s bought a Tesla right now.

You got what you got, and I hope you’re happy with it. But everybody’s excited about the latest operating system update. So Tesla, they’re not offering you a new body package or wheels, like these guys are doing out in California, where they’ve devoted, you know, a new, you know, aftermarket business to it.

But Tesla is a software company at the end of the day, right? So I, one of the guys I know that had one at work, he said, Oh yeah, they just installed a What cup man or some arcade game on my dashboard on the tesla i’m like why who cares this isn’t a phone This isn’t a game boy to your point. Tanya. I mean Audi’s got an advantage right they’ve been around since When cars were invented, basically, if you look at their history, yes, people, Audi did exist before 2000.

They’ve been around since the early 1900s. As a matter of fact, there’s a lot of innovation. There’s a lot of research in there. There’s a lot of, you know, they’ve always been on the cutting edge [00:15:00] of the VAG family, right? Where it’s like, ah, well, we’ll use Audi to experiment on the latest and greatest thing that they’re going to come up with.

But to your point, they’ve got cars that look good. They’ve got cars that handle well. They’ve got cars that are proven in all sorts of weather conditions, and they have a reputation. They have racing pedigree. They have a history there that, you know, other manufacturers do and don’t have, but Tesla is definitely not on that do list.

And once they do catch up. And they can find a battery manufacturer, maybe they come up with their own. Maybe it’s, you know, Bosch comes up with it or Siemens, or they get it from Samsung. Then they will leapfrog over these startups, right? And just like a startup IT company, I think Tesla will be swallowed.

I’ve been saying it for years. It’s going to take a minute for it to catch up, but they’ll eventually, they’ll get absorbed by the board.

Crew Chief Brad: I think what the, it was the new CEO at Audi said is correct. Yes, they are behind all of the. All of the car manufacturers right now are behind Tesla. [00:16:00] But I don’t think it’s something that they need to worry about.

They are behind, but they’ve got the infrastructure behind them that they can catch up really quickly. Because they know how to make a car, as Eric was saying. Tesla knows how to make software, but are they really that great at making a car? I mean, there’s all kinds of videos out there about Tesla’s build quality.

I think the, uh, car manufacturers don’t have any problems. Yes, they need to come out with something soon, and Audi’s got the e tron now. Uh, and then they’ve got things planned in the future, but I don’t think they really need to worry

Crew Chief Eric: at the end of the day, cars are not software and I’ve seen it myself writing in Tesla’s where you have poor, you know, door seals and bad bill quality and things that are just kind of shoddy and almost look like they were just haphazardly put together.

You can’t roll out a software patch to fix a leaking door, right? These are things that, you know, Volkswagen, Audi group figured out forever ago. You know, and now for them, maybe they take for granted that, Oh, we can make a door that seals, you know, to, to 200 fathoms underwater [00:17:00] because we’ve done all the research.

I don’t think the Teslas are there and it’s going to take a long time for them to catch up on the build quality of a Mercedes or a BMW, or even that Porsche that we were talking about. It’s, it’s when, you know, you spend 250 grand on a 911. Look at what you’re getting for 250 grand, right? But you get my idea.

There’s something to be said about craftsmanship. The attention to detail versus this mentality of like software, slap it together. The users will figure out where the bugs are and let us know, and then we’ll fix it down the road, right? That just doesn’t work.

Crew Chief Brad: But I will say that my, my 2001 Audi S8 that I had.

Flooded after every thunderstorm. So it took him a while to figure out the leaking in the seals and stuff like that.

Crew Chief Eric: Every Mark four with the sunroof leaks. I mean, let’s get serious, right?

Crew Chief Brad: Exactly. So, so Tesla is not too far behind on that respect. No, 30 years. That’s all. All right, moving on. So we’ve got next.

We’ve got Tanya apparently wants to talk about an electric Bugatti. [00:18:00]

Crew Chief Eric: I think it’s the alternative to that 35, 000 Tesla package. What else could you buy for 35 K? Okay.

Executive Producer Tania: What else? Indeed. So I like the news article title that I saw Bugatti is selling a 35, 000 electric car for kids. And I read that and just said, what are you kidding me?

I think an alternative title might have worked here. They could have used Bugatti. Rich people doing rich people things again.

What happened to the couple hundred dollar, you know, pow pow power wheels? As a kid, I remember seeing, you know, oh, they have a power wheels. They must be rich. They got a lot of money. In hindsight, those poor destitute people. I mean, I don’t know how they got by with their plastic power wheels. So, but this article is about the Bugatti Baby 2, and yes, [00:19:00] 2, it means there was a 1 before it.

So Mr. Bugatti, uh, he made the Baby 1 for his son, his 8 year old son at the time. I mean, sure, you’re Bugatti, why not, right? But the Baby 2, this is geared towards teenagers. So we heard it starts at that modest 35, 000. It doesn’t look like a Chiron or Veyron or anything like that. It’s a replica of the 1920s.

Type 35 Bugatti, if you’re familiar with that, same Bugatti blue and everything. Right. You’ve got that base model that’s at 35, 000, but there are two upgrade versions that you could choose starting at 50, 000 or up to 68, 000 or 75, 000, depending on the article you read. And they come with the speed key.

Now, if you’re familiar with the Chiron, the Chiron has a speed key, which unlocks the pow pow power. So the models are the vitesse, [00:20:00] French for speed, and the pure sang, pure blood. And when you engage the speed key, these pre learner’s permit drivers can get up to 42 miles an hour. And drive it in the driveway, because they’re not street legal.

So I’m not really sure where these people are going, but I’m gonna suppose that if you have 70, 000 to spend on your child’s toy, that the grounds you live on probably are pretty impressive, so there’s Space to go driving? I don’t know. There’s a lot of, I have a lot of questions here. I don’t know about you guys.

Mainly mine are why? And the only thing I could come up with was rich people, rich people things.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, my immediate answer was it’s French and I was just going to leave it there.

Crew Chief Brad: I would need to buy two of them just so I can wear them around the shoes.

Crew Chief Eric: I think it’s cool. Let’s just say you have the budget and you were like, man, I want the coolest go kart that I can buy.

And it’s a replica Bugatti type 35. I mean. Yeah, that’s pretty slick.

Executive Producer Tania: What go karts could you buy for [00:21:00] 35, 000 that would go faster?

Crew Chief Eric: You can buy legitimate shifter karts for less money than that. But

Crew Chief Brad: here you go, you can buy your Bugatti go kart for 68, 000 or you can buy your little shifter kart for 15, 000 and dump, you know, 50, 000 into it.

And completely blow it out of the water for half the cost. That’s what Tesla’s doing now.

Crew Chief Eric: Can I drive it at Pike’s Peak? Yes. Ah, we’re set. That’s what the real reason is. Now we’re gonna do Junior Pike’s Peak Hill Climb in Bugatti electric replicas. This is how it’s gonna go. And then we can claim that we’re faster than a 1980 Chevette.

Crew Chief Brad: Let’s just claim that we’re faster than a 911 GT3 RS. Does that work? Who’s gonna compare them?

Crew Chief Eric: Ah, that’s true. That’s very true. I like this plan. What do we got next?

Crew Chief Brad: We gotta dodge. What? A do a what? We are taking 200 steps back, and we’ve gotta dodge Demon. That’s right, people. Wait, wait, wait. You’re talking about the Challenger.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m talking about the [00:22:00] Miata. Excuse me? So hear me out. So back in 2007, before the Challenger, Dodge was thinking about making a Miata killer. Well, a Miata competitor, not really a killer. And they gave the Demon nameplate to this little two seat roadster convertible thing that they were going to release to compete with the Miata.

It had 2. 4 liters in line for about 172 horsepower, 165 pound feet of torque. Compared that to the Mazda Miata, it was two liters, four cylinder, 170 And, yeah, this was gonna be the demon. So, wait, wait, wait. Was it front wheel drive? No, it was rear wheel drive, and it had a six speed manual transmission.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, wow.

I wonder who they borrowed that drivetrain from. Cause I was gonna say, if it was front wheel drive, it was a Neon re skinned. Cause, you know, that time period.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m sure all this happened after 2007, but I’m wondering, maybe it was an SLK underneath. Maybe it was like a Chrysler Crossfire.

Crew Chief Eric: So yeah, that could be a possibility that it was maybe a precursor to the crossfire.

We’d have to [00:23:00] dig into that a little bit more, but oddly enough, all joking aside, it’s kind of, I don’t, I hate this word, but it’s serendipitous that this showed up this week on grassroots motorsports, because we just talk to one of our members about. Trying to fit himself in a Dodge Demon when it was at an auto show.

And it made for a very funny story, which you guys will hear on a later podcast episode. But we thought it was kind of cool that this came up, maybe big brothers listening or Skynet or the Borg or somebody, but we’re going to post the article so you can check it out about this little known concept car.

And we’re going to talk more about concept cars in a follow on episode, which is a. kind of carry on from an article we wrote a couple years ago entitled, Good Ideas and Bad Execution. So we’ll probably revisit the Dodge Demon concept a little later in the year. Good pull there, Brad. Since we’re talking about concept cars, have you guys seen the rendering of the new Fiero?

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. It looks like a Monte Carlo. Yeah, it looks like a Monte Carlo or a third gen Camaro. It looks like trash. I’m just going to [00:24:00] say it. I’m just going to come out and say it. It’s a turd.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, I had this reaction, like, when you were a kid, surfing the internet, and all of a sudden something popped up on the screen and you’re trying to close it as fast as you can because you know it’s something you don’t want to load.

That was my reaction to the new Fiero. I was like, close this browser window immediately, block the pop up.

Crew Chief Brad: I want to say that the Fiero, there’s no good looking Fiero. The only good, the best Fiero picture I’ve ever seen. Was when I was about 10 years old and there was like a half naked woman with giant breasts and like blonde hair sitting on the hood of it.

That was the best Fiero picture because I didn’t have to look at the Fiero. I just had to look at the girl. The Fiero was a turd. It still is a turd. It’s the biggest piece of shit. Whatever. The Fiero I hate it. I hate that part.

Crew Chief Eric: To give the Fiero a little bit of credit. Credit where credit is due. Makes an awesome kit car.

If you want to have a fake Ferrari, but I think they only got it right in the last [00:25:00] year with the two M six and all the other things, when they finally figured it out, they were like, all right, we’re done. We’re not going to make it anymore. They do still hold a decent value, especially those last couple of years of the Fiero, the early cars.

I think they’ve all just turned back into. Rust and dirt at this point. You don’t see too many of them on the road. I think if I got the opportunity and somebody handed me the keys, I would drive it to say I did. But I wouldn’t probably ever tell anybody about it.

Crew Chief Brad: I would, I wouldn’t drive it because I can’t fit in it.

But I would push it off a cliff.

Crew Chief Eric: I also think that the other thing that, It just had all the GM stuff. To include the T tops, right? You’re just like, oh man. Every 80s GM trope. We had to put it into that car.

Crew Chief Brad: But I love the T tops. I had T tops on both my Camaros and I thought they were fantastic.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m not a T top guy.

It’s just, I’ve grown out of sunroofs and T tops for me, it’s like, oh god, I don’t know. It’s one more thing to leak. Would I like to see the Fiero come back? Yes. [00:26:00] But as the C8 Corvette instead, like, I don’t know, I’m still hung up on the whole idea of the mid engine Corvette. It could have been called something else.

Maybe the Fiero, maybe the Corvair. Do I want to see whatever this,

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t know,

Crew Chief Eric: abomination, a good word for it is, it is not a pleasant looking car, especially with today’s design cues in mind, it’s just, like you said, it’s a combination of things. It does go back to the Monte Carlo. I could see them building a Monte Carlo off of this, maybe some sort of GNX.

Modern thing, but I don’t know this seems to be a recurring theme with GM because right after the Bronco came out GM decided they were gonna throw out a blazer Tease and and do a two door blazer like in the old days and so we’re gonna post a link to that as well What did you guys think of that?

Executive Producer Tania: I actually have to look at it again.

That’s how much attention I paid it

Crew Chief Brad: Well, while she’s looking at it again, I think it’s really cool. Now, was this a rendering that GM actually did, or was this something that somebody else put out [00:27:00] hoping that GM was going to do this? Because I know GM released the Blazer crossover a year or two ago. Too much, you know, complaints and criticism by the public, and I think they’re just trying to save face at this point.

If they’re the ones that releases it’s too little too late. I think the article that we read said that it was going to be a little bit softer. It was going to be more like the everyday off roader. So it’s going to have off road capability. But it’s going to be more user friendly for, I guess, everyday driving around on the road.

If anybody who’s owned a Wrangler, I’ve owned two of them. I’ve never owned a Bronco, but I can imagine it’s probably very similar. They are not fun to drive on the road. I mean, I made it fun to drive just because I liked, you know, balling down the street in a lifted Wrangler. But they are not comfortable.

There’s no room in them. They’re terrible just to drive down to the grocery store. You have to really enjoy driving a Wrangler. And I think this is supposed to Grab those customers that want [00:28:00] that look in that that kind of Wrangler feel or that they want to look like the lifestyle But they don’t actually want to participate in it kind of like athleisure wear the people that want to look like they work out But they don’t work out.

I think this is the athleisure wear of the

Crew Chief Eric: straight up yoga pants my problem with the retro cars is If you’re going to do retro, do it right. And I got to tip my hat to Chrysler. I know a lot of people call me a closet fan boy, but that’s one thing that Fiat’s done right. And even kind of Mercedes kind of set the stage there when they went and did the Challenger and the Charger at first, I didn’t like it, but the new one is really actually kind of cool and everything they’re trying to do.

And you know, the Durango was supposed to be the Grand Wagoneer and call it what you want badge engineering. But at the end of the day. They did retro, right? They look the way they’re supposed to. They, they outperform most everybody’s expectations, but to build a retro car and then end up basically with the FJ, you know, that weird two door thing that Toyota came up with, which was [00:29:00] supposed to hark back to the, you know, the sixties and seventies, it was too soft.

It was too blobby. It was like a marshmallow on wheels. And does it really have any off road capability? No, you, if you want to offer a capability, go buy a Jeep. Go buy something else. Right? If you’re gonna make a blazer, make a blazer. If you’re gonna make a Bronco, make a Bronco. Don’t give me a Mach E and then put different sheet metal on top of it.

So build something right, body on frame, build it the way people want it, because all you’re gonna do is end up with people disappointed. And like you said at the beginning of this, The new blazer that came out is a slap in the face to people that have square body blazers or early, you know, blazers and all that kind of stuff because it’s an equinox with a new badge on it.

Let’s, let’s just face it, right? And it has nothing to do with the blazer. Again, I say kudos to GM, but I agree with you. It’s a day late, a dollar short because they’ve been talking about the Bronco for. What five plus years now, like they’ve been teasing that it’s coming. I’m glad it’s finally here. I know people are putting [00:30:00] deposits on it and I think it’s going to be popular just like the Maquis.

And I think Ford did the right thing by sunsetting cars like the Mondeo and the focus and things that just really weren’t selling well. And they’re bringing out something exciting and GM. I don’t know. I just think they’re, they’re playing catch up, you know, and I think the Corvette was a fail and that was the most exciting thing they had, right?

Because what else did GM really have right now that gets you interested in coming into the dealership?

Crew Chief Brad: You know, I actually used to be a GM fan boy and my family, you know, when I was growing up With the exception of my 91 Honda Civic, all we had were GMs. We had a Caprice. We had numerous pickup trucks All GM, all Chevy Silverados, but with what they’ve been putting out lately, I would say from 98, 99 to now.

It’s all terrible. I mean, there’s not one car with the exception of the Corvette, which I don’t fit in, so don’t even try it. There’s not one car that I would buy of theirs. It’s, it’s terrible.

Crew Chief Eric: I will say, and not to diverge too far off, I will say the [00:31:00] Impala is pretty nice as an everyday kind of full size sedan.

We’re probably going to see that car disappear, but they finally got that right because the ones previous to the current one were pretty terrible. But that’s the only thing that I’d be like, yeah, I’d consider a GM. It’d be pretty much that. And a CTS, CTSV of some sort.

Executive Producer Tania: I had the unfortunate displeasure to have to be inside multiple mid 2000 generation Impalas.

Oh my gosh, those are the worst. No offense to anybody. I cannot. Stand those cars. I will never ever. I don’t care if the new one is nice or not

Crew Chief Brad: terrible. Wait, were you in the back seat behind plexiglass and barred doors or?

Executive Producer Tania: No, I was driving it and the thing had 20, 000 miles on it and it drove like it had 220, 000 miles on it.

It was horrific. I can’t imagine someone. [00:32:00] Willingly went to a dealership and gave up their hard earned money for one of these. That’s how passionately I feel dislike for them.

Crew Chief Brad: I think they went to Enterprise and got a rental and just forgot to return it. And I think that’s how all these people ended up owning Impalas.

They just forgot to return them.

Executive Producer Tania: And I think Enterprise was fine with that.

Crew Chief Brad: I think they were too.

Crew Chief Eric: And I can hear mountain man Dan right now. Well, you know, that’s cause you’re used to that sport tune, Bill Stein suspension, you know, in your German cars, you got to embrace the mattress suspension of that GM.

Executive Producer Tania: Sure. Where’s my dromamine motion sickness medication.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s jump, let’s jump to this new. New, but old since we talked about retro before Morgan is bringing a car next year is what I’m to understand 2021. Yeah, so when did BMW buy Morgan? Like when did that happen? That’s all I’m gonna start with that [00:33:00]

Executive Producer Tania: That’s

Crew Chief Eric: the thing that I was a little bit unclear on because I didn’t know that there were any British wholly owned Companies anymore in terms of auto manufacturers, they’ll be kind of either bought up by the Indians or, you know, the Germans or, or whoever.

So I was like, ah, Morgan. So when I, when I read about the BMW cooperation, their collaboration effort, I was like, oh, that’s interesting. And now it does look like. Every other Morgan from back in the day, which they’re hard to tell apart. Like, you know, there will be an episode coming out where we interview two members and one of them has a Morgan plus eight and it’s like an 85 or 86.

And I, to me, it looks like a 1956. I mean, they all kind of look the same and the new one harks back to the same thing. So it’s. It’s a retro car, but I mean, they’re still using the same size and dimensions and bucks and wooden frame. And so is it really, is it really new? Or is it just got a new engine in it?

You know, I, I don’t know.

Crew Chief Brad: From what I read, it’s, it’s completely new. I mean, yeah, it’s still using wood, but they, they’ve got control [00:34:00] arms all around. They’re no longer using leaf springs in the back and the live axle, and they’ve got more power out of it, thanks to the BMW. In line four. It’s supposed to be a wider car.

So people larger than, you know, five foot seven, you know, can fit in it comfortably, I guess, and it’s, it’s supposed to be a brand new car. It gets up to 149 miles per hour. It’s 0 to 60 in 4. 3 to 4. 7 seconds. It’s, I mean, it’s not too shabby for the low price of well, see, that’s the thing. It’s the 4th of the price of the GT three RS.

It’s, it’s 70 grand. They’re not being sold as production cars. They’re being sold. They’re using the loophole because they don’t sell a lot of vehicles here in the United States. So they’re not selling it as like an auto manufacturer, it’s like a kit car. It’s going to be sold as a kit car, much like the three wheeler that’s sold here now, which I love by the way.

I would never be able to own one, but I love them. They’re sold as motorcycles.

Executive Producer Tania: So the internet, Oracle of all things, it is [00:35:00] It’s not owned by anybody but themselves. They are still the Morgan Motor Company. Um, I think they have an, uh, apparently an Italian investment group, um, maybe is backing them right now, but their parent organization is still the Morgan Motor Company Limited.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. So let’s switch gears. Let’s talk about, you know, we’ve talked about a lot of different cars and retro cars, whatever. Let’s talk about a car that never came to the States, was never destined for the States. But has to be one of the coolest cars you’ve never seen or never heard of. And maybe some of you have, if you’re a, if you’re a, a German car fanatic, like some of us are, we posted a video to a recently released wide body conversion on a VW.

SP2. And for those that don’t know what an SP2 is, it was presented in 1971 as Project X. The SP2 is a sports car developed by Volkswagen of Brazil for the Brazilian market. And was produced from 1972 to [00:36:00] 1976. It’s actually built as a variant on top of the carbon GIA chassis and was equipped with a 1. 7 liter flat four over that four year period, 11, 000 units were produced in South America.

There was a short lived and very unpopular SP one. That came out before and there was actually an SP3 prototype, which in my opinion is better looking and we can post some links to all that stuff where you guys can look it up on Wikipedia. But this particular wide body car came across my desk and I was completely glued to the screen.

It is gorgeous. It is a color that I don’t understand. Uh, it changes because it is technically midnight blue as, as the title of the video, which you don’t really see until the second half, but wow, what an amazing bill, the guy that put that car together, it’s, it’s really, really cool. And you definitely got to check it out.

So I know you guys watched it. How about some feedback?

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t actually think it’s a real car. I think it’s all CGI because I follow, I [00:37:00] follow that guy on Instagram and stuff. And he’s got a whole bunch of different renderings and stuff. I, I could be wrong and the listeners will tell me where they won’t because nobody’s listening.

But I think that it’s, I think it’s all CGI. I don’t think it’s a real car. That’s why you get the color change because it starts out as gray. And then it’s, then it’s midnight blue all of a sudden. I think the gray is when he’s first. You know, like, like the first draft or whatever. I don’t think it’s an actual real car.

Crew Chief Eric: But the videos of the car going down the road and just kind of watching the suspension travel and, you know, and everything like that. If it is CGI, it’s damn good.

Crew Chief Brad: Watch the driver. The driver’s head does not move.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, I was just annoyed at the audio track being so loud. You couldn’t hear the sound of the engine.

It’s like, can we turn that down? It’s fabulous music, but please. I’m interested in the sound of the engine. And I wanted to downshift. And I wanted to see him go bruhhh. Nothing.

Crew Chief Eric: There was a moment there where you did hear the car And it sounded like it was a six cylinder. [00:38:00] Uh, I don’t, I couldn’t tell if it was a flat or a VR of some sort, you know, like all those crazy, all those crazy conversions out there, but you know, that is a rear engine car.

I mean, obviously built on the carbon gear chassis, so you could fit probably a lot of things back there, but rendering or not you guys, come on, it’s a sexy car. I mean, it’s, I think the only detractor is that nose and that’s, it’s a face. Only a mama can love, you know, it’s kind of goofy, but I thought about it.

If the SP two had a different nose, then it would just be kind of a weird looking nine 11.

Executive Producer Tania: I like the SP two, even just to stop on. I mean, it’s different. I like different, I like all those. It was older cars, so I mean with the wide body kit, it definitely looks nice. I mean, there, there could be some slight different fits and finishes that you could do, but I mean, overall it was an attractive car.

Crew Chief Brad: I thought it was really cool looking. It actually reminded me a lot of like a 280z or like an older Z car. I thought it was really cool. I don’t fit in them, so I don’t care, but [00:39:00] I think it looks good. Somebody else would have a lot of fun with that car.

Crew Chief Eric: I, I would. A hundred percent. So bad. And for, you know, the only SP2 you can own in the United States, not imported through the gray market, you can pick up at your local Walmart because Hot Wheels has cast them for the last couple of years.

And I have a small collection of SP2s here at the house. So just letting you know, you know, they only cost about a dollar. So it’s a huge savings over that Tesla we talked about earlier. So let’s go to our last bit of industry news.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, we’re going full circle here, right back to the electric talk that we started with.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh,

Crew Chief Brad: why? Oh,

Executive Producer Tania: but this is nice. This is fun. This is, this is electric buses.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s the Gary Busey, right?

Executive Producer Tania: So there’s a German company called Electric Brands, and they’re developing a modular electric bus that’s not just a bus, it’s a pickup truck, it’s a camper van, and much more. It’s called the eBusey. An unfortunate name, but maybe they’ll change it, you know, right off the [00:40:00] bat.

I’m thinking, you know, this thing actually gets made and sold. Is this a competitor to VW’s ID buzz, which you haven’t heard the buzz about the buzz ID buzz is the new VW bus, the iconic love and hippies bus that we know the type two, the transporter, as it was called, and this. This e bussy is very reminiscent of the Type 2.

Uh, the Type 2 came in a wide variety of configurations. You know, it had the panels, it had the flatbed, the pickup truck, the Westfalia was the camper van, and so on. So the e bussy is going to have two chassis options. It’s going to have urban and it’s going to have off road. It’s also going to have 10 configurations from bus to flatbed pickup truck to traditional pickup with the side walls to camper van and so on, just to name a few.

Now, the other interesting thing about this bus, since it’s so modular, so not just [00:41:00] removing panels and reconfiguring it like Legos steering and the pedals are not mechanical as is modern day drive by wire, right? You will be able. To slide the steering wheel and pedals left to right in the cabin. So you can go from left hand drive to right hand drive.

Which is very interesting. I’m not sure useful, but interesting.

Crew Chief Eric: Can I sit in the middle like a McLaren?

Executive Producer Tania: Actually, you can. I watched a video on it and there seems to be three positions. Left, center, and middle. And you kind of rearrange the panel box in the dashboard, apparently. So, alright, you’ve got that.

Aesthetically, if you haven’t seen it, I would categorize it as, quote, cute. I mean, if there was a sequel to WALL E, this would be the star, and it would convert into a wheelchair moving the humans around.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s Wheely. [00:42:00] Voiced by Gary Busey. Yes. Disney, give us a call.

Crew Chief Eric: We got this figured out.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay, so some more about the bus here.

So it’s not very heavy. It’s 1000 to 1300 pounds. I’m sure that’s based on what the chassis is. It’s only going to be all wheel drive. Um, it’s also going to have 20 horsepower, but 737 foot pounds of torque, which to me sounds incredible in such a small, light vehicle.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s going to do a wheel stand.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m getting excited.

The smaller 10 kilowatt battery, it’s going to get you about 120 miles of range, but there is a 30 kilowatt battery that will get you around 370 miles of range. In terms of price, we’re talking on the low end and 18, 000 on the higher end. If you want to go off road camper version, um, it’s closer to 33, 000 do not foresee, unfortunately, I guess, this ever coming to [00:43:00] America and despite it being clearly influenced by the.

VW Type 2. I’m not sure it’s going to be a competitor to the ID Buzz. I actually think, because if you’ve seen images of it as a flatbed or a pickup truck, it reminds me of the little three wheeled trucks that run around Italy. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: The Apes. Yeah. The Piaggio. And Ape, fun fact, is being Italian and they’ve been around since 1948 and they’ve been making this little three wheeled delight.

I mean, it’s a Vespa with a truck bed on it. I mean, they’re fantastic, really. I mean, Piaggio is the company that made, makes Vespa. So, I mean, it’s not a leap that they got there. So. Considering how the off days use where it runs around small city towns, and, you know, it’s very commercial. You’ve got guys just doing maintenance things running around doing deliveries, commercial things of that nature.

You know, this, I would see actually, it’s more of a [00:44:00] competitor. To them, then, you know, I’m going to cruise around town in my VW bus that doesn’t, you know, turn into a transformer,

Crew Chief Brad: but I can see this competing with the transit to the for transit because they they’ve got different configurations. I mean, they don’t have a pickup truck configuration, but you can get different van sizes and you can get the tall 1, the short 1, a little bit longer.

So I would see it as a competitor for that. Two questions. One, do I fit? Would I sit in the center and nobody on either side of me? And then two, is it just me or does the logo look like the Bugatti logo? Is this a Bugatti bussy? Bugatti bussy?

Executive Producer Tania: You would cost a lot more if it was.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes, true.

Executive Producer Tania: And there was no mention of a speed key.

Crew Chief Brad: No,

Crew Chief Eric: okay,

Crew Chief Brad: okay.

Crew Chief Eric: What I really want to know is What does it do at Pike’s Peak, and what can I compare it to?

Crew Chief Brad: Is there a 35, 000 Ascension R package for it?

Executive Producer Tania: It might be coming.

Crew Chief Brad: And if it did, would you buy one?

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, honestly, I would go look at

Crew Chief Eric: one. It’s

Crew Chief Brad: like your [00:45:00] electric Fiat Panda.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, I’m putting it in the universe.

We need a Fiat Panda. Fiat’s here in the us It’s gotta happen,

Executive Producer Tania: but it’s gotta look good. We need to be on the retro panda wagon, not the new, the new panda. Least that’s have gotten the Jordan one drive. One of those I one day maybe we’ll drive one of the older ones.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, so let’s go behind the pit wall and just let’s do some local news real quick before we get into some of the fun stuff and, and, and wrap up.

Today’s episode. So real quick, HOD has put out a call for coaches for all August events. That’s Pocono summit point and pit race. So if you’re a coach and you’re willing and able to help, please reach out to Kenny Ivner at Ken E that’s K E N E at hooked on driving. com for more information. More importantly, HOD has changed the format of their August eight, nine summit point event.

It is no longer three days and is no longer on three tracks. It is now two full days on summit point main. You can find more details about that [00:46:00] particular event at www. hookedondriving. com and then click on Northeast and it’ll show up there. But more importantly, HOD has authorized GTM to extend our discount to any of our listeners.

So if you’re interested in participating in this event, you can use our discount code of GTM10 during checkout and save yourself 10 percent on the Summit Point entry fee. Now some COVID related changes to the track world and to the motorsports world in our local area. This may apply to areas outside of the DMV, but I’m just going to pass this information along.

If you’re interested in tracks in our area like NJMP, Summit Point, etc. EMRA, the Eastern Motorsports Racing Association, they’ve recently put out a press release talking about how Travel restrictions within New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut have changed. There’s a lot of States now that are on basically a no fly list.

And that is causing issues with registration at events and locations like NJP Watkins Glen, et cetera. As of the 23rd of July, they had said they were very short of [00:47:00] registrations. And they were on the verge of potentially cancelling the event because many people from outside the area weren’t able to participate.

With that being said, they were supposed to follow up the same day and they didn’t. But I recently checked their website, emrahracing. org, under upcoming events. And the event for August was still listed on their website. It’s two days at NJMP Lightning. And then they do have some follow on events later in the season that you can look up as well.

Crew Chief Brad: If you plan on going to any of the events, Make sure you check what state the event is in and if that state has any restrictions for who can come into the state. We had 1 guy at Watkins Glen get turned away because he was from Maryland. Another guy almost got turned away because he lived in Florida, but he had a Delaware license.

I mean, he had a Delaware property and he was able to use that address to get into the then. So. Be very careful what you register for and make sure that you can actually go.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. And stay tuned because changes are happening all the time. Uh, and every [00:48:00] state is different and state by state. So, you know, there’s events happening all over the country as of, you know, the beginning of June.

So, and we’re going to talk about that a little bit more here. Another press release from SCCA. came out and the governor of West Virginia has outlined a status on West Virginia’s recovery plan. It’s kind of short and sweet to the point. They’ve changed a lot of their focus on different counties in West Virginia.

The county that summit point is in is not affected. So they’re basically, they’re continuing to move forward with the way they’ve done business up until, you know, as the track had reopened. In June, the mandates for endure use of mass remains in place. So if you’re a novice or intermediate student, you’re required to go to class, you’re required to wear a mask, you know, look at the guidance of the club to see if master required when you have a coach in the car, or if you’re a coach, you know what the rules are they doing lead follow in car, etc.

The good news for the DMV, especially for the WDCR region of SCCA is they’re gonna move ahead with all of their scheduled [00:49:00] programming, which means competition race school, which just happened, and, and Brad will talk about here in a second, as well as their chime trials, HBD events, auto crosses. Uh, all of that is gonna continue is to include the rally cross events at Summit Point, et cetera.

So the Mars 2020 club racing season is now basically underway until Summit Point closes. In addition to that, I got a news flyer came across my desk with respect to our friends at National Corvette Museum. We’ve had the opportunity to go out there many times over the years. Great facility out in Bowling Green, Kentucky, just down the road from the Corvette factory.

And I was shocked when I read the email, and I know a few other people have probably received this as well. It looks as though they have crammed their entire season into the month of August. They are doing HPD events, club racing, club driving, autocrosses, trek at the track, which is a walk, bike, run, Corvette C8 experience day, pro touring truck shootout all in the month of [00:50:00] August and they’re basically running events.

Throughout the week and throughout the end, you can look up what’s going on at ncmm by visiting motorsports park.org/events, and you can see the crazy schedule they have laid out. I wish I lived closer to ncm because I would probably jump in on some of these events. It’s a really cool track, unlike anything else you’ve ever driven, because of factory test.

Track is not a race track and NCM specifically is designed and modeled after down to, you know. inch scale of corners at Le Mans and Daytona and other places. It’s a really interesting track to drive at. So if you’re in the area or are planning on going out there, it’s definitely worth doing. But again, check those state by state restrictions to make sure that you’re allowed to travel, you know, into Kentucky, especially to go to NCM.

In addition to that, two other pieces of news. If you’re a fan of indoor carting, especially electric indoor carting, Autobahn Speedway, which has facilities all over the DMV, and now I believe in Pennsylvania and some other places, [00:51:00] they have opened all of their locations. By reservation only. So if you want to go carting with your buddies, you want to do an Enduro, you can get a block of time, check out their website, autobahnspeed.

com for more details. One of the things we were planning as a, as a club this year, as an extended cannonball was to try to go to the Canadian F1 Grand Prix, that event. Many people don’t know is actually a limited number of people can go there because the track is on an island. You can’t actually drive onto it.

There’s shuttles, things like that. It’s very complicated logistically, and it sells out like within 24 to 48 hours. So we’ve been keeping an eye on it. We really wanted to go this year. We actually kind of missed our opportunity. But unfortunately and regrettably, the Canadian F1 circuit has responded and said that they are canceling the F1 Grand Prix.

They’re very disappointed. It’s very difficult. It’s very challenging. A lot of people traveling from all over Canada has different restrictions in the U. S. due to COVID. For people that already bought tickets. By the [00:52:00] 27th of July, you should have received a communication from the Canadian F1 Grand Prix track about the status of your tickets and what they’re going to do.

They want to thank everybody for their loyalty, and they’ll let you know, you know, when they can open the track back up.

Crew Chief Brad: Um, well, this past weekend, the SCCA held their, their annual competition school. I think it’s annual. There may be one or two a year. Two of our members, Matt Wood and Jordan Furman, both entered the school and passed.

Matt Wood continued on through the weekend and competed in his first real SCCA sanctioned races. So let’s give a round of applause to them. Congratulations guys. Also, I think the weekend before that, one of our other members, Sam Harrington, went to an event at New Jersey Motorsports Park. It was called the Jersey Devil Majors, where he finished first place in his race in his Formula Enterprise 2 car.

So congratulations to Sam as well. And then other than that, I mean that’s, that’s pretty much it. The SCCA competition school is [00:53:00] interesting. I was there and I worked with Matt and Jordan as pit crew. Because the way it works is you’re in the classroom, you’re in the car, in the classroom, in the car, just in and out all day long.

Uh, you really don’t have time to set up the car like you would at, at an HPDE event, so you need some help. It was very interesting. We hope to have them on later to get some more inside information about their experiences at the school, so please stay tuned for that.

Crew Chief Eric: Switching to some international news, just some two pieces of information that came across our desk that we thought were a little bit interesting.

Team Acura is separating from Penske at the end of this season. I know the IMSA season has been a bit of a wash. You know, some of it being done on iRacing this year and a lot of the races being done without spectators and, you know, IMSA TV is a little bit restricted. I wish it was a little bit more open like Red Bull TV is where I could actually watch the races.

Acura’s had an interesting history with Penske over the last You know, let’s call it four or five years, but it seems as though they’re going to kind of branch out on their own or maybe find a different [00:54:00] major sponsor from what I read in the article from motorsport. com. It sounds like Acura is going to continue to participate with their Daytona prototype car, but they are just, you know, they’re, they’re looking for a new home.

There was another article that came out that Some of our members got excited about that. McLaren is now set to bring the iconic Gulf oil brand back to formula one as part of a new sponsor. I don’t know why. I mean, so here’s the problem I have with it. I love the Gulf oil color scheme. It’s been around since the sixties.

I know that Gulf oil sponsor Bruce McLaren back in the old days of formula one, but. There was something in the article that stuck out at me and it was actually my initial gut reaction. And I’m just going to read the quote. The golf logo went on to become one of the most well known in motor racing. It was featured heavily in the 1971 movie Le Mans with Steve McQueen driving for the golf team.

And I’m like, yeah, the golf logo, [00:55:00] the golf livery, in my opinion, is synonymous. With the Porsche 917 and I know there’s listeners that are out there going to tell me. Ah, you’re full of it You don’t know what you’re talking about, but for me and maybe for a lot of our listeners. I just feel like there’s a bigger mental relationship there between golf and Porsche like even The golf Porsches, right the golf Porsches.

I don’t really say the golf mclarens now. I know You know, back in the nineties when the, when the McLaren’s went into IMSA with the, with the McLaren quote unquote F1, which was actually a, you know, BM BMW powered supercar, they bore the golf livery. But again, it’s something I forgot about. And when somebody says golf livery, I think Porsche, what about you guys?

Crew Chief Brad: I mean, they were

Crew Chief Eric: also on the GT forties, right? That is correct, yes. With the Fords.

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve only got one question for you. So what is the, the team Porsche F1 car look like again?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I don’t have an answer for you there.

Crew Chief Brad: So I don’t care what car it’s [00:56:00] on, especially in Formula One where all the cars look the same.

It doesn’t really matter. I just think the fact that they’re coming back to motorsports and sponsoring a motorsports team is what’s really cool. And me, being a Daniel Ricciardo fan, And he’s going to be driving for McLaren next year. It’s just, I’m, I’m ready to spend thousands of dollars on my golf merchandise.

You know, my golf McLaren merchandise, my Daniel Riccardo hat and replica helmet and all this good stuff. I’m ready to go. I can’t wait. All right. Well,

Crew Chief Eric: let’s head into

Crew Chief Brad: our next

Crew Chief Eric: section, which is.

Executive Producer Tania: Would you like some fries with that? Because every, every good story seems to start with a Florida man. So I’m going to start with a Florida man. Sets his car on fire, driving with a candle. I really like this story. Now, [00:57:00] before I break it down, I wanted to say nobody was hurt, thankfully. Um, I think the only injury was obviously to this man’s vehicle, and his pride and ego, and whatever else goes along with that, but

Crew Chief Eric: Can I ask you a question before you dive into this?

Crew Chief Brad: It’s a Chevy Malibu, so who really cares? It’s not much of a loss.

Crew Chief Eric: No, no, no! I wonder, because he’s driving with a candle. And you guys are going to hear about this on a later episode. Was he trying to recreate the ambiance? Of the night scene in Gone in 60 Seconds. I think he was on a date.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, let’s break it down here and let’s see what we think when we get to the end of this.

Who

Crew Chief Brad: is this Florida man?

Executive Producer Tania: I’m gonna leave the nameless nameless, okay? See if I can get this with a streak. So a man was driving with a scented candle in his car at this point. Okay. I’m more interested In why it’s a scented candle.

Crew Chief Brad: What is the scent? What’s the flavor? What flavor candle is that? Black ice like you [00:58:00] get at track auto.

Executive Producer Tania: I want to know how bad does this guy’s car smell that a pine cone air freshener from the corner gas station wasn’t enough Okay, he needed a scented candle. Okay. Candle tips over, ignites some paperwork. Probably

Crew Chief Brad: divorce papers.

Executive Producer Tania: Who manufactured this candle that it tipped over, didn’t snuff itself out, and then ignited paperwork?

Also, where was this candle that you didn’t see it fall over? Subsequently, ignite paperwork that you couldn’t put the fire out very quickly.

Crew Chief Brad: It was in the backseat for safety.

Executive Producer Tania: Also, was there accelerant on this paper? Because, I don’t know how it lit this quickly. We read Fahrenheit 451. Now, the man pulls over.

grabs a trash can, goes in search of water. At the risk of minor burns, why would you [00:59:00] not grab the paperwork, chuck it out the car, or, I don’t know, grab the floor mat, start beating the flames to put it out? Like, at what point do you decide that, there’s a trash can, now let me go find water?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, that’s what you need the candle for, because you keep putting trash water in your car.

So,

Executive Producer Tania: he presumably returns, I don’t know with water or not, in this trash can, but the car is engulfed in flames. He

Crew Chief Brad: returned with marshmallows.

Executive Producer Tania: Maybe. Again, I want to know, where was this candle, but more importantly, who made this extraordinary candle? This lit this car on fire, okay, and that’s basically the article.

But even further, I’m left with, what do you say when you call up the insurance company?

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, the candle excuse has been used for every meth lab explosion on the east coast that I know of.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, from the picture, the candle was in the [01:00:00] front, okay? It looked like it was in the front passenger seat, so I don’t, I just Can’t even imagine.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, only in Florida. Statistics have shown that people flatulate up to 14 times a day. So maybe this guy spent a lot of time in his car and therefore the candle was a necessary evil.

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t think he has to say anything to the insurance company. I think when they look up his record and see Florida man, I think they’ve got a whole special department for Florida residents.

A hundred percent.

Executive Producer Tania: Public service announcement listeners, please, you know, do not drive with candles.

Crew Chief Eric: I imagine seeing that on the digital board going down 6. 95 next week.

Crew Chief Brad: So Tanya, tell us about the next Florida man.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, so he had another Florida man, and this is very annoying, okay? Gets 4 million in COVID PPP and buys a Lambo.

Now, I, this whole time, have misunderstood what the Paycheck Protection Program was for, because it’s apparently for buying a Lamborghini Huracan and [01:01:00] not for paying your employees during the time of COVID. Like this jackass is gonna say it. I mean, it’s utterly disgraceful in a time like Now, where people are under real crisis, they’re without jobs, small business owners are struggling to make ends meet to pay their employees.

You’ve got this guy defrauding the paycheck protection program for 4 million. And he was shooting for way higher than that 4 million to support his alleged four businesses. And I’m wondering again, if the missing link, what we don’t know is that one of his businesses. was to drive around the Lamborghini Huracan.

Crew Chief Brad: That still only falls under marketing expense, in that the way the Paycheck Protection Plan worked is you had to spend at least 75 percent on your payroll costs, which included health insurance and taxes and stuff like that. And

Crew Chief Eric: that leaves you with a million bucks if it’s 75%, right? That’s good enough to buy a Lamborghini or

Crew Chief Brad: Correct, correct, but that means he doesn’t get to write all, or he can’t get that million [01:02:00] dollars forgiven for that Huracan.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, apparently it was a 318, 000 Huracan, so I don’t know what they actually go for, but

Crew Chief Eric: Slap some vinyls on the side of that thing. It’s marketing, baby!

Crew Chief Brad: And I will say that it was dirt simple to get approved for the PPP loans. I’m an accountant, and I’ve had to do this for a couple clients. And, I mean, they asked for some information, but you basically fill it out yourself.

You go through your bank, and if you’ve got a good relationship with your bank, they don’t look, they don’t ask questions, they just say, oh, you’re approved, here you go.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s unfortunate. I mean, it wasn’t just a Lamborghini either, I mean, he was buying lots of other high end luxury items. With a million

Crew Chief Eric: bucks to spend, of course, but what I want to know is What type of candle did he buy for his name?

What scent do you think it came in?

Crew Chief Brad: See, that’s gonna be the next article. Florida man burns Lamborghini to get rid of evidence.

Executive Producer Tania: It smells like donkey.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I was gonna say, does it come in shit bag? It smells like jackass.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, he was caught, he’s [01:03:00] facing serious criminal charges as you should think. Bank fraud, falsifying, you know, statements to a lending institution, engaging in transactions with unlawful proceeds.

It’s, it’s, it’s serious. It’s a million dollar fine and 30 years in prison. So, I mean, hope that was worth it.

Crew Chief Brad: This reminds me of that story a few years ago where another Florida man bought that Bugatti Veyron and tried to sink it in the, I guess, in the intercoastal because he didn’t have the money. To cover the loan or whatever.

So we tried to do insurance fraud.

Executive Producer Tania: Our last Florida man on here actually isn’t a Florida man, but a Michigan woman who sets her boyfriend’s Jeep on fire.

Crew Chief Brad: I’d say ex boyfriend.

Executive Producer Tania: I, yes, at this point, uh, I do believe that would be accurate. I also think that this one could be retitled Michigan woman reenacts waiting to exhale an apartment parking lot.

Cause I’m going to go out on a limb here, Angela Bassett fan. Has the waiting to exhale DVD extended cut, [01:04:00] and not too big on science. Thankfully, no one was seriously injured. The boyfriend was not, or the ex boyfriend, was not in the car, was not in the Jeep. I mean, the arsonist, no doubt, bumps and bruises and some burns, but nothing that was reported as life threatening.

Crew Chief Eric: Did they use a candle?

Executive Producer Tania: There’s a comments team here. I mean, if you haven’t seen the video because somebody in like the, uh, another apartment building videoed the whole thing on their phone. So it’s, it’s, it’s spectacular. It’s definitely a what did I just watch moment. It’s out there. Go look at it. I mean, she doused the interior of the Jeep.

With gasoline and then she sticks a stick lighter inside to light it, presumably thinking that it’s just going to gently light, maybe like the candle.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s what the movie show is. The movie show is a gasoline lights nice and slow and just takes a trail.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, no, except in reality, what happens is all [01:05:00] those, the vapors.

Ignite first and create a blast that sends you Rocketing into the parked car that’s right next to the jeep. That’s what happened. She slammed into it like WWE. I mean it was Incredible I mean she quickly picked up all our things and scampered off as the video showed craziness in Michigan

Crew Chief Brad: Florida man, Michigan woman, there you go.

Crew Chief Eric: So speaking of craziness, I think now it’s time for us to order up a side of Golden Mike. Some random car adjacent news. So first up, Mountain Man Dan discovers a lime green Geo Metro Ute for sale on eBay.

Crew Chief Brad: I mean, it’s eBay, of course. Uh, it’s probably sitting in his yard now.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m disappointed I did not get time to bid on it, because we would have bought it for Matt.

So Matt, if you’re listening, that would have your name all over it. It’s the [01:06:00] ultimate sport utility vehicle there. Meanwhile, speaking of crazy time, how about that 88 BMW M3 that sold on Bring a Trailer for a quarter million dollars?

Executive Producer Tania: Is the BAT, does that actually stand for BAT shit crazy? It

Crew Chief Brad: stands for bring a trash bag full of money.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, yeah, 100 percent and get yourself a Paynos. But, in reality, I don’t understand those kind of purchases. I know some people are going for Guinness Book of Records for most expensive car sold or something like that. But to me, I mean, the E30 M3 is a fantastic car. It was Trend setting and the whole nine yards, it was really a step out for BMW.

And they’re, they’re very sought after, but I just think there’s an extra bunch of zeros on there. Like I could see a pristine low mileage E30 going for 25 grand, but I can’t see it for going for a quarter million dollars. I [01:07:00] mean, who has that kind of basically F you money to throw around on a 30 year old BMW.

I mean, it’s just, it’s not that special at the end of the day.

Executive Producer Tania: A, they also just bought their child a 70, 000 Bugatti baby too.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, okay. You stole my thunder. You know, I wonder which PPP loan he got to buy that E30.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, I don’t know, the E30 M3 checks a lot of boxes for me. But not at 250, 000. I’m back in that 9 11 camp for an extra 3, 000 if I’m spending that kind of money.

Crew Chief Brad: It checks the no box for me at

Crew Chief Eric: 250,

Crew Chief Brad: 000. 100%. That’s a no for me, Alex.

Crew Chief Eric: So, in other random news Some of our listeners may know the Xbox One is sunsetting. The new version is about to come out, the Xbox. The

Executive Producer Tania: Xbox Series X.

Crew Chief Eric: There we go. The Xbox Series X comes out for this holiday season. Now, all of us aren’t going to rush [01:08:00] out and probably buy it day one, although some of us listening probably will, but there is a title that is, I think, worth pre ordering.

Some art people would argue not, that’s going to come out on the PS4 and the Xbox One, and that’s Project Cars 3. The best part of the article that I read about it was actually what engaged me the most. And it says at last a driving SIM that’s properly playable with a game pad. And for those of you that don’t have full racing rigs at home, you’ll know that the previous project cars were near impossible without major tuning to play without a simulator rig.

But it is a fantastic game. It has a lot of more realistic features than some of the other games that are out there. It’s a little bit more entry level. There’s a lot of articles describing pros and cons of all these games, like a set of course, uh, and I racing, et cetera, and barriers to entry in terms of costs and project cars is really sits in the middle between a Forza and a grand Turismo and all these other games that are there.

The new version, thankfully is a partnership. Mostly [01:09:00] because Codemasters bought Mad Game Racing, and therefore it is now under the same publisher as games like Grid and Dirt and all the Formula 1 series games, etc. And with the influence from Codemasters, It means that project cars three is going to have a lot of the features and functionality that we’re used to seeing in, you know, a dirt or a grid, et cetera.

And it’s going to be a lot more playable. It’s got a lot more fun. I’ve seen some of the early videos of project cars three. It looks amazing. And I have to say, despite the fact that it’s coming on a, on a chassis, that’s. Basically out the door. I still pre ordered a copy because I’m going to play it. With that being said, we may or may not pursue the idea like we’ve said in the past of doing a virtual racing league with a game that isn’t.

Forza, with that being said, Forza 8 will debut on the new Series X platform, which again, we may or may not run out and buy. So this might be an opportunity for us to use Project Cars 3 to bridge the gap as [01:10:00] we decide where we’re going in 21 with our virtual racing league.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean I’m looking forward to more information on the game.

I’ve been trying to, I go to the Project Cars 3 website pretty routinely to see if they’ve updated anything because right now they’re still sticking pretty generic to over 140 cars or track configurations or whatever the stats are. They’re not, I’m waiting, I want to see like a track list, what’s new, what’s different from the old ones.

There are snippets of articles that talk about a couple new tracks. But then also some tracks that I guess they don’t have the licensing rights for anymore and might be disappearing like spa apparently. So, I mean, we’ll see what, what’s actually true. I’m waiting to actually have Codemasters and Mad Game, you know, officially reveal that on their website.

And we’re, we’re a month away. Cause it’s supposed to release in August 28th. So hopefully they update their, their information pretty soon. But I mean, I’m excited for it. I, Project Cars 2 was definitely very different than Forza. You did have to configure [01:11:00] that controller very heavily to make it drivable.

It’s different in a good way, and it was enjoyable, so hopefully Project Cars 3 is, you

know,

Executive Producer Tania: they keep a lot of their physics engine intact, even though they’re making it more user friendly. I

Crew Chief Eric: think it’s going to be a lot of fun with the tweaks from Codemasters to make the game more playable, make the UI better, probably make the multiplayer experience better.

I think it’s going to be an all around win. And with it coming out in August, That means we still have four to five months before the new Xbox comes out, if it releases on time. So, in anxious anticipation of the Series X coming, I need something to do in the meantime. So I think Project Cars 3 will be a great excuse for something to do when the track season closes.

And God forbid, if there’s another COVID shutdown and we’re all kind of stuck at home again, I think it’ll be a nice distraction to have a new game to play. With my friends and with the virtual racing league people, and we’ll see where things go. Kind of switching gears a little bit to kind of talk about filling time.[01:12:00]

Tanya brought to my attention the other day. There are a ton of rally documentaries on, of all places on Amazon prime. I happened to watch one the other day that was kind of short, sweet, and to the point about group B. I’m a big WRC fan, probably one of the few people in the club that is. I’ve mentioned that before, but especially group B, it’s kind of the sweet spot because I grew up as a kid actually watching those races, you know, on television, you know, or live on what was, you know, cable.

This particular Documentary is called rally the killer years. It’s 53 minutes. So it’s very easy to just kind of blaze through and it gives you a great overview of group B and why it ended so abruptly in 1986. I actually discovered some information that I wasn’t clear on. And there’s three big Kind of catalyst that caused group B to end and kind of a little spoiler here

Two of them involve Aloncia [01:13:00] and one of them involve a Ford a death at the hand of an 037 and a Delta s4 two of the drivers went off track, one of them at Corsica and the other one was at another location and they died. And that was part of the impetus. Most of us feel that it was, Oh, somebody got killed in a crowd or whatever.

That was part of it. And that’s really the Ford story. And that’s a really. A tragic story about driver hubris. And so there’s kind of an underlying message there because it was a complete send it moment and the driver that Ford hired to drive the RS 200 at that race in Portugal, unfortunately, he had never driven the car before.

He was very ambitious is the word I’m going to use. And he literally said before going out at that stage, he goes, I’m just going to learn how to drive the car while I’m out there and what had happened. as they show the footage and it’s pretty gruesome. So if you watch it, you know, make sure you explain to your kids or anybody else that’s watching what’s, what’s about to happen.[01:14:00]

But basically somebody from the crowd wanted to reach out and touch the car. Cause that was the thing back then. And the driver freaked out and because he was unfamiliar with mid engine rally car and the rs200 was notoriously twitchy He over corrected and basically spun into a crowd of people and hurt maimed killed many many people and He actually walked Out of the car after it all went down, he actually sat in the car for a period of time, kind of with his head on the steering wheel, probably contemplating the rest of his life at that point.

But, you know, he walked away from the crash, whereas many other people didn’t. And that was one of the most horrific crashes in group B. And it was kind of the nail in the coffin with respect to that most extreme of motorsports. And that’s why rally is now finally very regulated, et cetera. And in the short time that the film.

Runs. It covers all of this. There’s great interviews with people like Michel Mouton, Walter rural, and Ari [01:15:00] Vatanen. And it’s very insightful, you know, firsthand accounts of what happened back then and all that. And it’s very cool. And I highly recommend watching it. If you want to get a really good high level overview of what group B rally was like back in the eighties.

Moving away from that and and unfortunately kind of, you know, more somber note, we wanted to also kind of tip our hats. Regis Philbin passed away this week on the 25th of July. So Regis passed away at 88 years old.

Executive Producer Tania: So I tried to see if there was any car adjacent to him and I didn’t really find anything.

I don’t know that he was. Probably particularly the car guy. But, however, I did find that there was a show in the early 2000s, Faith and Hope, which starred Faith Ford and Kelly Ripa, who Kelly Ripa was his, one of his co hosts after Kathy Lee Gifford, and he was, I think, on two episodes of that show, and he played a used car salesman.

Crew Chief Eric: Boom! There it is! Car connection.

Executive Producer Tania: He was Handsome Hal.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh man. This is like six degrees at Kevin Bacon. [01:16:00] That’s why it’s car adjacent. Car adjacent. And we have one more piece of random news before we close out.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s a future Florida Man story.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes, this is. Folks, we are going back to Florida on this one. I could not pass up this article when I saw the headline.

It’s new drive thru Halloween experience coming to Orlando this fall. And I’m just going to go and quote directly the Orlando Weekly. At a time when most Halloween events are canceling on 2020 completely. A group of Central Florida creatives is hosting a drive thru experience to scare the crap out of you in the safety of your own car.

The quote, haunted road builds itself as Orlando’s first immersive, completely contactless drive thru Halloween experience. They plan to tell an original theatrical story through twisted creatures and quote, unexpected scares in every drive thru scene. I love this, and I am extremely worried. about the [01:17:00] execution of this.

Crew Chief Brad: If there’s one thing that I loved or that I love, it’s being scared while behind the wheels of an automobile. I just love that. It’s just amazing. I can’t wait for the Florida Man stories to come out of this. I mean, how many, what’s the over under on how many people are going to get killed in crowd

Crew Chief Eric: control?

Well, it’s going to look like that Group B rally documentary that I watched. And then some genius, because you’re probably going to do this with your headlights off, is going to have a candle in their car because they can’t see where the hell they’re going. So it’s a win across

Crew Chief Brad: the board. Stay tuned, folks, for more, more on this story.

Executive Producer Tania: I can’t even imagine. All I know is that when I, I like haunted houses and haunted forests and all those things. Sign me up. I won’t watch a scary movie, but I will go walk through a haunted forest. It makes complete sense. But I will say that I instinctually take off running at the sound of chainsaws. So I do not know what would happen if I’m in my car and I hear a [01:18:00] bunch of chainsaws going.

Oh, I

Crew Chief Eric: know what would happen. It would look like, you ever see those Florida flea markets? Where the guy, like, drives right in there. I mean, I’m sorry. It’s not funny, but it is.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I, I sincerely hope that it goes off safely and it’s a great production. It could be a lot of fun.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m waiting for the YouTube videos on this one.

I am ecstatic. Well,

Crew Chief Brad: I, I don’t think this is something that I can go to. Being somebody that has been thrown out of a Six Flags at one of these Halloween events. I probably will not be going to this. Woo! That is just, wow, so much Florida. So

Crew Chief Eric: much Florida action there.

Call this fast food. Uh,

Crew Chief Brad: hi?

Fifteen Big Macs, please.

Crew Chief Brad: Excuse

me? Fifteen Big Macs, please.

Executive Producer Tania: How much Big Macs?

Fifteen.

Executive Producer Tania: Trios or just the Big Macs?

Just the Big Macs.

Executive Producer Tania: Fifteen

Crew Chief Brad: Big Macs? Yeah, it’s 76 and 73 cents.

Okay, can I get a [01:19:00] liter of Big Mac sauce on the side?

Crew Chief Brad: No problem.

Thank

Crew Chief Eric: you. Alright, our final segment, we call it the secret sauce. We cover specific, uh, GTM news.

So we know you’re listening to a podcast right now, but we want to give you a little sneak peek of some upcoming episodes in the next month that are scheduled for August next week, or right after this episode, you’ll be listening to a member story from Portia Al. After that, we’re going to have a special, what should I buy episode entitled regrets and the desert Island.

We have a two parter called story time with crutch. And then wrapping up August, we’re going to have the Latin lads racing team on and to talk about the case of the cursed mini. So those are the episodes you get to look forward to here in the month of August. Just so you guys know, depending on how you’re listening to the podcast now, Break Fix is now available on all the majors.

That means Apple, Google, and Spotify. There’s people using all different ways to connect to us. But, uh, you have the [01:20:00] option to use any of those three major services. If you would like to listen to us on another service, like maybe a Pandora or Prime, we do have those options. Just let us know if that’s something of interest.

But we think we have everybody covered with those three. Summer Bash 6 is going to be held the weekend of August the 25th. First at pit race this year, this is the first year where we’re not holding it at summit point. It was a long and kind of drawn out board meeting with respect to where we were going to do the event, why, and et cetera, it just seemed to make more sense with the logistics that you heard earlier about HOD changing the plans for summit point, that we would do it at pit race, the pit race facility is great.

If you haven’t been there, it’s probably one of the best laps on the East coast these days, especially for a track that was built, you know, in the last, let’s say decade or two decades. A lot of fun, really long track and a full configuration. Lots of elevation changes. It doesn’t particularly lend itself to slow cars or fast cars.

It’s a great mix of technical and speed, but at the same [01:21:00] time, it has a go kart track and it has a lot of other amenities. And so being summer bash, what it is. And if you participated in the. Paddock party at pit race last year. We’re basically combining those two events thanks to COVID and we’re going to make the best of an excellent weekend and out in Pittsburgh.

So if you haven’t signed up for that already visit www. hookedondriving. com and register or visit our website and look for summer bash six for more specific details about the summer bash six sell our six. anniversary celebration and everything that comes along with that. You can buy your e tickets on there.

You can buy your t shirts on there. You can pre register for go karting, all that kind of stuff. We don’t, we have a ton of really interesting, uh, Instagram posts to follow up on this month, but I will remind people that there are some hashtags you may want to watch. If you’re into Italian cars, GTM spicy Italians.

If you like the oddball ones, I’ve been posting a lot of French stuff thanks to our French appreciation week that we did a couple months ago. Uh, GTM , we also have for the Mark four Volkswagen people, we have GTM Mark four [01:22:00] VWs could follow my slightly stalled nine 14 build under GTM Project nine 14. You can follow Summer Bash under GTM Summer Bash.

And of course you can always follow the podcast under hashtag GTM Break Fix in other GTM specific news. May not come as a surprise. You know, a lot of us are very much invested in the European cars, but a little announcement to the members and anybody else that’s listening and it’s interested, we are now officially an FCP Euro reseller.

So if you’re interested in getting some discounts, want to talk to us about parts and availability, stuff like that, please reach out to us. You can listen to that at the end of the podcast, all of our contact information, and let us know what you’re looking at. We can get you some pricing on parts for your European car, especially for your track car.

And I think here kind of wrapping up, we want to do some shout outs to people that helped us this month, especially with the podcast and with different things around, you know, GTM HQ, Brad and I are going to go around and just mention all these folks. And we want to say, thank you [01:23:00] again for supporting us, but go ahead, Brad, let’s kick it off.

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, we want to say thank you to John for being on a couple of our podcasts that you’ll be hearing soon. If you haven’t heard already. So the Wade brothers, Steve and John Porsche

Crew Chief Eric: owl, who’s no longer Porsche owl, but Nissan out. Jason Ferguson for helping out with our Big Man in a Little Car episode.

Andrew Mason also for helping out with the Big Man in a Little Car. And the coolest dentist you’ve ever met, Gordon Bell, for the same thing. And Brian Young, my brother from another mother. And Mike and Chrissy, the Crutchfields, for participating in multiple podcast episodes over the month and also recording their individual member profile episodes which are going to come out later in the year.

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, we’re going to say thank you to, uh, Kerwin, who’s a longtime listener, no time caller. Hopefully we’ll get him on eventually at some point. Judd, thank you for being on the, the contest that we had. The You named that tune contest, even though you named exactly zero of them [01:24:00] and Matthew, Matthew. Yep. Thank you for being on.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, man, Dan, my, my brother from another mother, he has been on multiple episodes and multiple episodes to come. And Dan’s going to be a recurring figure on here. He really enjoys the whole podcast format. So look forward to more things coming from Dan and a special square bodies episode somewhere in the hopper there.

So if you’re into GMs, no offense to earlier statements. Dan is your man when it comes to that.

Crew Chief Brad: We want to say thank you to the Chivalry family for always, you know, supporting GTM. We also want to throw out some thoughts and prayers to their son, Chris Chivalry. He was in a motorcycle accident about a week or two ago.

He’s been in the hospital. He’s got a GoFundMe page set up. We’ll try and put a link in with the Patreon. I think we can get access to that. But please go help them out. They’re great people. He’s a great kid. We hate to see him down like this.

Crew Chief Eric: Special thanks to Gunther Hoyt. He is the president of the Old Dominion Packer Club and he’s part of the Classic Car Club of America.

He and I [01:25:00] had a very interesting interview about classic cars and how to get, you know, younger people involved in that and that episode will be coming out later this year. It’s really fun, especially if you’re into older older cars. So thank you again, Gunther for coming on the show.

Crew Chief Brad: We want to throw more thank yous and more thoughts and prayers out to the Sonnerby Clan.

Max, Brett, and Michael. We plan on having them on as a part of our Generations or Origins story future podcast, but some of you may know Max was in an accident in Watkins Glen a couple weeks ago, and they ended up. Uh, totaling their C7 Corvette. So thoughts and prayers with him. Uh, and Brett, all I’m going to say is Panos.

Crew Chief Eric: And thank you for the Sonderbeest to, uh, for contributing and supporting the podcast. I know Max is a Patreon member And, uh, Michael donated as well. So thank you again. Every little bit helps and you know, we we’re fueled by volunteers. So it’s So it all adds up. In addition to that, I want to thank Garrett from Chazz’s Used Auto Parts for always being a top notch sponsor of GTM, but in [01:26:00] addition to that for coming on and doing a recording with us for a future podcast episode where he tells us all about dirt track racing and motorsport that probably many of us are not familiar with, but it actually is very interesting and has a lot of parallels with some of the things we do.

So thank you Garrett for doing that and for extending all the courtesies you do when we come out to the shop. And for just being an all around great guy and thanks to your dad as well and everybody over at Chaz’s and we look forward to continuing doing business with you in the future.

Crew Chief Brad: And we would be remiss if we didn’t thank our wives.

Thank you, Jessica, for allowing me to have Eric, you know, for all this time that we spent on this. And thank you, Adrian, for putting up with all my craziness. I know you’re not a car person, but you you put up with me being a car person. And, you know, we greatly appreciate it. That is the

Crew Chief Eric: key to success right there.

We’ve said it once. We’ve said it a hundred times. This goes to all of our members. This goes to all of our listeners. This goes to everybody that supports GTM, whether you’re following us on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, through our [01:27:00] articles, you know, everything that we do and all the way we try to touch and influence people’s lives and bring motorsports enthusiasm to the world without you guys.

None of this would be possible. So a big round of applause to everyone that’s out there that’s, that’s helped and contributed, that we didn’t mention on this list. Again, thank you so much.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, without you guys, it would basically be me and Eric sitting in his basement, talking about cars that we wish we could afford.

Crew Chief Eric: And on that note, I think it’s time to end. And have a great rest of the month.

Goodbye.

Here we are,

us cars in back of us, all just waiting to order. There’s some idiot in a Volvo with his bright son behind me. I lean out the window and scream, hey, whatcha trying to do, blind me? My wife says maybe we should part.[01:28:00]

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, listeners, crew, chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from GTM? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going so that we can continue to record.

Write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash GT motor sports, or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can [01:29:00] help.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction and Sponsors
  • 00:34 Welcome to Brake/Fix
  • 00:43 Introducing The Drive Thru Segment
  • 01:20 Mustang Mach E 1400 Discussion
  • 03:58 Tesla Model 3 Performance
  • 12:28 Audi’s Electric Car Challenges
  • 17:56 Bugatti’s $35,000 Electric Car for Kids
  • 21:49 Dodge Demon Miata Competitor
  • 23:47 The New Fiero Rendering
  • 26:29 GM’s Retro Car Strategy
  • 32:44 Morgan’s New Car Collaboration with BMW
  • 35:30 Volkswagen SP2 Wide Body Conversion
  • 39:39 Electric Brands’ Modular eBussy
  • 41:32 Aesthetic Appeal and Design
  • 42:08 Technical Specifications and Performance
  • 42:45 Market Comparison and Pricing
  • 45:21 Local Motorsports News
  • 46:21 COVID-19 Impact on Motorsports
  • 53:23 International Motorsports Updates
  • 56:42 Florida Man Stories
  • 01:05:28 Random Car News
  • 01:19:03 Upcoming GTM Events and Announcements

Local News

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this Drive Thru News episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Would you like fries with that?


Other episodes that aired this month…


This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Open Air Motoring with V8 Convertibles

Summer’s here. You’re itching for a toy. Not a track weapon, and not a daily driver – just something that makes your friends say, “Where did you get that?” or “What the hell is wrong with you?” at the next Cars & Coffee. That’s the spirit behind this episode of GTM’s Break/Fix podcast, where Brad, Eric, and special guest John from Project Motoring dive into the eternal enthusiast dilemma: Which V8 convertible should I buy?

The Criteria: Open-Air, V8, Under $50K

John kicks things off with a simple premise: a fun summer car, preferably with a V8 for the sound and visceral driving experience. Manual transmission? Optional. Engine swaps? Honorable mentions only. The goal is turnkey joy – not a multi-year build project.

The budget? Ideally under $50K, with most picks falling between $15K and $30K. And yes, SUVs and trucks with removable tops count. Open-air motoring is open-air motoring.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

The Extremes: Ferrari 348 vs. Model A Hot Rods

John’s first pick? A Ferrari 348. Mid-engine, manual steering, screaming 8,000+ RPM redline, and styling that screams Miami Vice. It’s not the prettiest Ferrari, but it’s quintessential. And at $30K–$50K, it’s at the bottom of its depreciation curve.

Eric counters with the opposite end of the spectrum: Model A Ford roadsters and other vintage hot rods. Loud, fun, and often cheaper than the Ferrari – but just as demanding in terms of maintenance and know-how.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction and Panel Setup
  • 00:38 Debate Kickoff: V8 Convertible Criteria
  • 01:34 Clarifying Questions and Criteria
  • 03:40 Exploring Convertible Options
  • 09:26 Ferrari 348: A Deep Dive
  • 15:39 Classic Car Alternatives
  • 20:10 Modern Convertible Contenders
  • 28:53 Hardtop vs. Ragtop Debate
  • 31:13 Supercharged Beginnings
  • 31:31 Modern Day Cobra
  • 31:45 Viper vs. Modern Alternatives
  • 35:51 Convertible Preferences
  • 40:08 Favorite Engines and Sounds
  • 50:39 Top Convertible Picks
  • 01:00:49 Closing Thoughts and Acknowledgements

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Our panel of break fix petrol heads are back for another rousing. What should I buy? Debate using unique shopping criteria. They are challenged to find our first time collector, the best vehicle that will make their friends go. Where do you get that? Or what the hell is wrong with you at the next cars and coffee?

What’s going on everybody? I’m Brad with me. As always, my cohost, Eric, we have a special guest tonight. We’ve got John from the Project Motor, and he’s also a GTM member. All right. As you might recall, we’ve mentioned many times before in this show, the constant debate within GTM called. What should I buy?

Not an HHR. And in tonight’s episode, we hyper focus on which V8 Convertible should I buy? So, John, describe your shopping criteria.

John Caffese: So, we were talking earlier a couple weeks ago, Hey, summer’s coming around, we’ve all been locked inside for COVID, maybe we’re not tracking so much, but what would be a fun summer car if we wanted to buy as a [00:01:00] toy?

So, naturally, All of us have coupes and sedans and we have their sports cars or anything So we’re thinking what is a good open air car to have now? Obviously there was a lot out there and we were kind of narrowing it down to v8s For more for the driver experience, the audible noise, our idea, our debate went into what V8 convertible could we buy or would we buy if we were in the market?

Now, a lot of questions arise out of that as far as price points, new or sold. And those are some of the things we wanted to get to and talk about and maybe flesh out here now.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s do some clarifying questions here, John. Some of the most important being, does this need to be a manual car? Manual transmission car.

John Caffese: I would say, there is no requirement for that. I actually was thinking of some that are not, because that would be the buyer’s choice. So if this isn’t going to be strictly a track car, but just a toy car, a street car, just something you want to cruise around in, or if you want to beat the balls off of it at the drag strip or something, that would be buyer’s [00:02:00] choice.

I have a couple of suggestions that one actually is an automatic, others may have some as well. Not only is manual extremely rare in today’s new and even, uh, somewhat late model used car market. Convertible and V8, those are, uh, three, I don’t want to say dying breeds, but certainly three traits that are hard to find together.

Absolutely. So I think in a new car market, there’s maybe. You know, cars that are of that ilk and are less than 100, 000. I think there’s maybe four in the market. So, so

Crew Chief Eric: no, there’s no requirement

John Caffese: for

Crew Chief Eric: me. Okay. Okay. So my other question then is, could it be an engine swapped car where it didn’t start its life as a V8, but it can accept a V8 as a project car?

John Caffese: So I would say, I would add those to maybe the honorable mention list because I think the spirit of this car Is maybe not so much spending that much time on it I I think once we start doing engine [00:03:00] swaps the sky Is the limit as well as your money and imagination? So I think it’s cars that we can kind of turnkey go.

Okay, but I am interested to hear some of those ideas Because instantly, you start talking instantly, I mean, you could fit an LS in anything, so.

Crew Chief Eric: 944 convertible with an LS swap, right? I mean, like, let’s just.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: right?

Crew Chief Brad: I can end this podcast right here, right now, with one, one car. Nissan Murano Cross Cabriolet.

Boom!

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, man! Right there. Good night, everybody.

Crew Chief Brad: Good night, everybody. I’ll talk to you all later.

John Caffese: So, you know, Brad brings up a good point. Here’s something I didn’t have on the list, but just, uh, your Nissan Murano makes me think of it. What? What? GT, GT Cruiser? Right? No, no. Any, you know what I didn’t have on the list, but it absolutely meets the criteria we’re talking about?

A Ford Bronco.

Crew Chief Eric: That was actually one of my clarifying questions. Did it need to [00:04:00] actually be a car or could it be a SB or truck of some sort or

John Caffese: truck a I think, I think open air motoring is open air mo motoring. Okay. I mean, if you wanted to have an aerial atom with the high boost of V eight in it, um, there you go.

Uh, that’s true. You could certainly bring that up. I don’t know if that’s a very viable car. You do have a price point though, right? What is your Right? So we’re thinking this is obviously not gonna be, or it could be a daily driver, but certainly not in the Northeast. It’d be difficult. I mean, for the more brave they can do that.

But that’s gonna, uh, include some tire swaps for winter tires, different set of wheels, and now we’re getting into different things. I mean, if the spirit of the car, is it to be a toy car, um, it’s generally gonna be a. Not primarily a daily driver or maybe a seasonal driver So I would say it’s probably going to be on the cheaper end of things So I would say most people for a first car, they might have a budget of fifty thousand dollars, right?

So just for argument’s sakes I was gonna say that’s pretty much the [00:05:00] cap. I think the realistic range here For the majority of the audience or just, uh, the public, if they’re getting a second or third car, that’s a toy, you’re probably going to be anywhere between 15 and 30, 000, depending on what your situation is and kids.

But I think anything with an asking price of 45 or 50, 000 market value, there’s going to be examples where you can find them for 35 or 40.

Crew Chief Brad: And just to clarify, who is the we in this equation? You keep saying we, we, we. Uh, just to see, is this with your, your, your dad or your, your mom or who, who’s the way, is it with a Rego?

John Caffese: No, I, I, I think, uh, we, in a conversation is, is mostly some of the, some of the people talking about the topics and trying to flesh out. I wasn’t sure if you were doing this with a group of

Crew Chief Brad: people.

John Caffese: No, no, no. So I think it’s mostly just some of what we were talking about before in preparation for this. Uh, and I think some of my suggestions are actually going to revolve around different buyers and I’m going to point that out.

Different cards for different folks for different situations that

Crew Chief Eric: might be better or others. So [00:06:00] so to john’s point, right? I think he’s referring to the gtm royal We and i’m going to put air quotes around that just to take a step back to clarify for the folks that aren’t on The what should I buy channel on slack?

I actually posed this question a couple weeks ago as you mentioned at the beginning of the conversation where it was like Hey, i’m already thinking about my next project car and I’m leaning towards a convertible or cabrio or vert, whatever you want to call it. But my criteria isn’t nearly as sharp as yours is because I’m okay with a four banger.

I’m okay with, you know, it doesn’t matter really the power plant. I wanted something fun, a little bit stylish, but I’m also a lot cheaper. So for me, I want to chop that last zero off of there and go, what can I buy for five grand? And then knowing, knowing me and how, you know, kind of anal retentive I can be about the build.

Yeah. I’ll probably end up being close to 30 by the time I’m done. I guess my starting price point is very different. So that was actually another clarifying question I had on my list was. Are you a hundred percent locked in to a v8 car? I mean, I want to have [00:07:00] this debate about v8s for sure But I want to know if I can pepper in some oddballs as we go along as a possible consideration

John Caffese: So I

Crew Chief Eric: had

John Caffese: I had a couple thoughts about that too Looking at the market a lot of the new cars are actually six cylinders or four banger turbo fours or even turbo sixes To replace the eight cylinders.

I think na motors in general with emissions and fuel regulations are dying So again, it’s going to really limit able if you want to buy new because if we’re talking up to fifty thousand dollars You can go buy a lot of brand new cars and then some It’s not two of them some of these I would say I certainly want to discuss the best options for that Engine be dams once we kind of flush out a little bit there because I think there’s a lot of strong contenders I was actually looking at a list of brand new convertibles for sale at dinner tonight And it’s not a lot of cars and I think it’s something like less than 20 percent of them even had a v8 So,

Crew Chief Eric: and very much to your point, when I was researching, I was just kind of, you know, doing the cursory cars.

com eBay auto trader stuff and just, [00:08:00] okay, start with just convertibles. Yeah, I got 3 million cars to go through, you know, that are available from, you know, 1900 to today. And then I started adding a manual transmission and a VA and this and that and the other thing. And by the time I was done, I was like, I got 500 cars to pick from nationwide.

So it really narrowed it down. And that’s why I wanted to make sure that. You know, your search criteria was a little bit more open to suggestion because that can bring in some really interesting cars in that price point that you, that you brought up and I know you suggested one this morning. So maybe we start with that.

John Caffese: We were talking earlier and I said, you know what I was looking at? I was kind of thinking about this and I said, okay, so. Here we are. We’re going to go in the very strictest interpretation of our own rules. So we have a budget of between 50, 000 or less. We want an open air motoring car. We want a V8, right?

So what is the purpose of this and why are we looking for it? Like what started the conversation? And the conversation was like, what’s a good driving experience? Outside of what we’re [00:09:00] normally used to cage cars or on track or right? So obviously convertibles or targa just we’ll call it open air motoring

Crew Chief Eric: Uh

John Caffese: a little more of wet noodles as a chassis not necessarily known as as sharp as some other vehicles Why are we like hung up on v8 for sound right?

We want that audible driving experience and the v8 pours out So when i’m thinking open air driving experience Back road bombing in the 40 50, 000 or less range. I said, yeah, you know what? How about a 1989 to 1993 94 I believe they ran up to 95 Ferrari 348 the 348s are in a weird spot There’s still a four valve motor before the three five fives where they became without last adjustments You do have to do the service out the engine out for the major but maintenance aside which you can skim away with It’s 300 some horsepower in your convertible or Targa It’s like 8, 900 RPMs or 8, 500 RPMs.

They absolutely scream. They sound awesome. Trill. Sounds like a bike or an F1 car going down the road. Very Miami Vice. I [00:10:00] mean, to this day, it’s not the most, it’s not the most prettiest Ferrari, but it’s certainly one where it’s quintessential Ferrari. It went away from the 308 and the fact that it’s got, it’s kind of like the baby Testarossa with the thing.

So it’s, it’s, it’s one off styling almost. The 355 after that went back to a little more classic lines. So I think the 348s are at the bottom of their price point much like a c5g will be I don’t think you’re ever going to get cheaper than they are now. You can get a driver experience quality car for probably between 30, I mean, it’s not going to be pristine.

It’s going to have 30, 000 to 50, 000 miles on it. But we’re driving a car. We’re not looking for investments, right? Here’s the problem with the Ferrari, right? There’s two types of people. It’s a Ferrari. That’s the problem with

Crew Chief Brad: the

John Caffese: Ferrari. There’s two types of people who are going to buy the Ferrari, right?

Especially with 348. One, someone who knows nothing about cars or wants a Ferrari because it’s a Ferrari and that’s what they can afford. So outside of maybe like a Mondale.

Crew Chief Eric: [00:11:00] I

John Caffese: just threw up a little bit in the back of my

Crew Chief Eric: throat. Yeah, exactly

John Caffese: They’ll go out and buy any ferrari they can afford because it’s a ferrari Now if you look at 308s 328s 355s, even 360s The 360 is a little more uh, uh, 355 with a rough life or history.

It’s about the same price as the 348 And 308s and 328s, or 348, ironically, they’re all about the same mileage, they’re all the same price right now. They’re all between 30, 000 and 60, 000. The cleaner ones are more, the ones you don’t want to deal with are less, the ones that are drivable and serviceable are in that range.

So literally any car you want to buy from 1980 to like 1994. You can get yourself a, uh, a Ferrari for 50, 000. My suggestion would be the one with the most horsepower and the newest and most modern chassis. Anyone who drives a 348 and reviews it says it’s absolutely amazing. Now, with that being said, let me circle back.

One, first person who buys a Ferrari doesn’t care. It says Ferrari. It sounds cool. It looks cool. I know nothing about the car. I’m gonna pay someone to do it. And I just want a Ferrari. That’s your buyer at 45, 000, [00:12:00] 40, 000. The second is someone who doesn’t give a crap about the prestige or the fact that it’s a Ferrari so much as the brand, as much as I want a car that’s open air handles, awesome, very European styling, mid engine screams, a lot of fun, small it’s manual steering.

There is no power steering on them. They’re really the big go karts at the time, because if you ever look at the

Crew Chief Eric: 348s, they’re actually really small. They’re an acquired taste, and I think you and I share that as the oddball that actually appreciate the 348s styling. Because it is I enjoy them. They’re very subdued, and I remember when the 348 Competizione came out, and I really liked that car because it was slightly wider.

You know, with the flares and the big wheels and all that. And it’s, it’s, I don’t know, it was the proper evolution because I thought the three 28 was such a letdown, you know, and we all fell in love with the three away because of Magnum and kids of the eighties and all that kind of stuff, but that being said, it’s still a Ferrari, right.

But I, I think we can give you some options. I mean, It does check all the [00:13:00] boxes, right? But there are a lot of other cars that check those same boxes and actually cost less and are less maintenance and less burden. Certainly. So you don’t casually

John Caffese: buy a 348. You seek it out. So either you want the drive, you’re all in on the driving experience and cost be damned, or you’re all in on the brand experience, cost be damned, right?

There’s no middle ground.

Crew Chief Eric: I

John Caffese: will agree with you. I would love a 308. I was lucky enough for my father had one I grew up with one I wouldn’t touch a 328 and a 348 even though it’s the same car is like completely different in my mind because it looks like a Little baby testarossa and a 355 used in another world as far as maintenance and performance.

But yeah, so I think I think if, if you were dedicated to have one or the other, Don’t you lose,

Crew Chief Eric: don’t you lose the gated shifter in the 355 though? It doesn’t, No,

John Caffese: so what you lose in a 355 that you don’t have in a 348 is the dogleg shifter. So they’re still gated and the 348 is 5 speed and the 355 is 6 speed.

So instead of having one and then two, three, you have your [00:14:00] traditional

Crew Chief Eric: one, two, your H gate. So not to diverge too far off because we could probably have a whole episode about Ferraris alone, but which one was the first one with the little joystick shifter?

John Caffese: So the 355 is a, is a transmission that, uh, debuted the, uh, the F1 transmission.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s terrible. Yeah. Eight up clutches. The 360 also had an F1 transmission. They got better, but it’s still very terrible. The 430, I believe like 95 percent of them were the, whatever version of paddle shift they want to call it. So if you find a 430, that’s an actual gated shifter. That’s going to be the big car that they’re appreciating value.

They actually cost more than a new Ferrari right now. And then the four, five, eight are

Crew Chief Eric: all on it. Now I’ll say this though. The three 48 I don’t like it as a convertible. That’s just a personal thing. I think I would not get a spider.

John Caffese: I, I, I love it as a Targa. I’m not a big convertible guy in general, unless it’s a hard top.

Crew Chief Brad: So Targa brings up another. thing that we can add. Are you considering Targas as the open air [00:15:00] experience? Some people say they’re not, some people say they are. So for your, for the act of this, for the purpose of this exercise, you are including Targas.

John Caffese: Yeah, I would because I think the Broncos and stuff like that would fall under.

Crew Chief Eric: Let me give you a counterpoint to the Ferrari. Like, I see the Ferraris too far out in the extreme. Like, I would never recommend that to somebody. In our group to say, Hey, you want a convertible to go have fun and take your wife out or your girlfriend or whatever your, your significant other or your dog.

I don’t care. Right. But the, but the point is like, it’s not a car. I would just foist on somebody that didn’t have the means to really appreciate it and take care of it. So the opposite extreme of that, because I was digging in and looking at the price points, Model A Ford, Ford Roadsters. There’s a bunch of those kinds of old hot rods that are actually cheaper than the Ferrari.

They’re a lot of fun. They make a lot of noise. Yeah, exactly. Right. But they’re also have the same problem as the Ferrari in the sense that you have [00:16:00] to be able to, to appreciate those cars, maintain them. They’re usually a hodgepodge or potpourri of like this Ford actually has a Chevy motor in it from like, you know, 1990 in a 1948 chassis.

You know, I’m just making those numbers up, but you understand from a dump truck, right? Yeah. But you understand what I’m getting at. Right. So You can’t, you can’t go into those cars blindly either.

John Caffese: Yeah, I’ll agree with you and I, I think I’m just going to rehash my point before. I, I think my example and now yours with, with, with the Model T or, or T Bug that I think is a fantastic example is that you are not casually going into that.

Like, that’s something that you’re like, Hey, this is what I want for any, any reason, whether it’s the cool factor or maybe you understand the engineering of it. So like you said, it’s either going to be a nightmare and you’re wrenching on it and it’s awesome. I’m like a factory five Cobra. Or anything like that.

Or you’re just buying it because it looks cool.

Crew Chief Eric: So that is definitely on my list. My plan here is we’re going to funnel towards like the ultimate decision and that was actually closer to the middle is a factory five cobra because of what it [00:17:00] shares towards you know a more modern car which actually brings me to my next point so if we start if we take the ferrari And a model a model T bucket or a T bucket and a Ford roadster as the outer extremes of this conversation and start to work our way way in.

If I’m coming at you from the left, the next thing I would tell you is 55 Ford Thunderbird, you can pick up for 25 K a Ford galaxy convertible and a Pontiac Catalina, all of those V8s. All of those manual transmission, all of them drop tops, uh, Packard

John Caffese: Caribbean. I mean, if you’re going into fifties or sixties, to be honest with you, that’s an entire generation.

I wasn’t even thinking about, I mean, they made just about one, just about every car had a V8 in it. And two, just about every car has some sort of manual because automatics were prevalent or that good. There were two speeds, maybe a three speed if it had a glide in it, but you know, a great, great. Yeah. I didn’t even think about that.

I mean, obviously any sixties muscle car. But yeah, I think those are cars to that. I don’t know if you’re casually buying. Uh, I think you’re seeking them out either for the fact that [00:18:00] it is a 55 thunderbird or you want that classic car

Crew Chief Eric: As you know, I watch a lot of restoration shows or what we call restoration shows And so, you know the care the care and feeding that goes into a lot of those 50s and 60s period cars versus the 70s.

You know, proper muscle cars is a little bit different. Like the owners of those cars, they’ve treated them with the utmost respect. They want to keep them as original as possible. If they do resto mods, they’re very tasteful. They’re very on purpose to keep the car drivable. Like the new EFI from Holly, which is a bolt on replacement for the four barrel car, a lot of the factory air conditioning, modern suspension.

where the car still looks and feels like, you know, like a Cadillac or a Thunderbird or whatever it was from that era versus, you know, I got a charger for 46 pack. My name’s blown and I got tails and, you know, flames and, you know, those cars are crazy and they’re great. And. they have their audience too.

But in this conversation, I guess we’re, we’re all kind of focusing in on a cruiser here. I [00:19:00] have a fondness for those, you know, fifties and sixties convertibles. And I think a lot of them for the money, they’re big value. And when you get them, as long as you don’t do the whole, bought it online without really looking at it and kind of, you know, knocking the frame rails to make sure they’re not.

They’re you know, they’re solid and all that kind of stuff. You’re actually getting good value for your money Because a lot of those those thunderbirds and the catalinas and stuff. They were running about 25k You’re talking

John Caffese: impalas. Uh in the 60s and 70s. They’re they’re in that price range some of the issues.

I see what that is So if you get one that you actually don’t have to work on, if it is any kind of original, or if it’s been restomodded to a certain point, you’re going to be on the upper end of the budget. It’s not over. And if you, if you are under it, you’re going to end up being over it.

Crew Chief Eric: And very much to your point, that’s why a car like the Barracuda, a Barracuda convertible or a Cuda convertible, because.

Barracuda and Hakuta aren’t the same thing. Actually, it’s, uh, But like a Hakuta convertible you’re looking at easily entry price of about 75k, right? So that’s why it’s not on the list. [00:20:00] I mean, I love those cars I mean, I love those old 70s challengers, but that doesn’t fit your search criteria. So that’s why they’re not on the list So let’s come at it from the right side from the modern side.

So we know the ferraris are on the extreme So what’s the next notch on the belt? Inwards from the right.

John Caffese: So I know you had mentioned one thing, so I was gonna let you lead that, lead that charge there and then wants to talk about as

Crew Chief Eric: well. I was gonna turn it over to Brad, ’cause I think he had an idea. If we’re not locked, I’d love to hear it.

If we’re not locked into v eights, I think Brad has a good one.

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, well, the Nissan Murano cross Cabrio is everybody’s dream, but they’re hard to come by. They’re very rare. Is

John Caffese: is that a VQ in that.

Crew Chief Brad: I think so. So it’s not, did they

John Caffese: put the 37 in it? So that’s got some power. Yeah, it’s, it’s

Crew Chief Brad: got

John Caffese: the, the prestige.

All right. Um, um, if you’re getting a Murano Cabriolet with a VQ, I’m buying an HHR and cutting the top off.

Crew Chief Brad: [00:21:00] If you’re thinking about what we’ve been talking about, he’s already got a project car right, sitting right behind him that if you’re just listening, you can’t really, you can’t really see it, but yeah, he’s already got a 60s Mustang that he’s working on.

He doesn’t want another project, so it has to be turnkey, correct? I being the four by four enthusiast, the off roader inside me and everything, I’m going to go a little different direction than what we’ve already talked about. Yes. Ha ha. Cross cabriolet. Great car. Everybody should get one. No, you’re not a true motorist.

You’re not a true motor sports enthusiast unless you own a cross cabriolet. I’m just going to, no, but I’m, I’m thinking, is it British? No. Yes. Yes, it is. Is it a jack? It’s not a Jack. It’s, I know I have, I have an idea. It’s a Land Rover defender.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, hey, .

Crew Chief Brad: Actually pretty good. You can get a nineties 96, 97 ish, you know, land Rover [00:22:00] Defender.

It’s got the same feel as the, is like a Wrangler, but it’s, it’s not a Wrangler. So you’re not a, did you hear that? A Jeep Row.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you hear that awkward little pause in the audio there? That was the Lucas Electronics failing.

LS swapped the world. Buick 400, I think, in those things. Or no, sorry, smaller than that, but it’s a Buick V8, if I recall. In the 90s? Yeah, like Matt’s uh, Matt’s Land Rover, his LR, his Disco 2 is a Buick V8, so it’s probably a very similar motor.

John Caffese: I, growing up, we had a 64 International Scout, I mean it was a rust bucket, but we took the top off, and that was, so I, I totally get, and I didn’t even think about, we, we mentioned Bronco several times already, and I know we’re coming back out with it, but yeah, no, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a solid pick that I, I totally, in preparing for this, I totally whiffed on until we, we called, and I was like, oh, wait, wait, that’d be.

That’d be super cool. Um some kind of wrangler I want

Crew Chief Brad: I want one Just [00:23:00] because i’ve had wranglers i’ve had right. Well, yeah, i’ll do it eventually.

John Caffese: So how does the range rover? Discovery whatever model you said work you buy it for three grand you put 40 into it So you buy two

Crew Chief Eric: of them you buy two of them like matt did and you make one out of it

Crew Chief Brad: That’s the discovery the defender actually was a I mean the 90s defender was a pretty pretty decent model They were they’re very rare because they didn’t bring very many of them over here.

So that means they’re very expensive

John Caffese: If it’s older than 25 years old, we can import one rather easily But

Crew Chief Brad: it depends

John Caffese: on

Crew Chief Brad: what your time frame is too. This isn’t something you’re going

John Caffese: to

Crew Chief Brad: run out of the

John Caffese: dealership I think that’s As solid as that device is, I think we’re all falling into the trap is that we are enthusiasts.

So that is a full on, down the rabbit hole choice, as much as, say, the 348 or the 60s or 55 Thunderbird is. A fantastic choice. I think that misses maybe the spirit of the mainstream Turnkey of what we’re trying here because I think that would be a great love passion for you as much as the ferrari would Be a love passion for me [00:24:00] or those 50 60 errors for for that person So just shift it back a little bit towards some of our earlier conversations that led up to this I know eric had a couple things that he wanted.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah So one of the ones from the right side and I need verification from you being a diehard bmw guy Was there an e92 convertible? Oh, he’s got it on the

John Caffese: list. He’s got it. I need to all right. So Hard top convertible v8 the only year with the v8 in it and it comes with an automatic the dct It’s actually pretty good.

That was going to be my counter to a car that you were going to say Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, we’re not there yet that that’s

John Caffese: That was gonna be that’ll be my counter that but uh, yeah, so An E92 M3 that comes with a six speed or a DCT if you just don’t even want to worry about driving it automatic. It’s got a rear seat that’s actually usable.

It’s a hardtop convertible. Since I had that written down, I checked some of the prices on them. They’re ranging anywhere from, believe it or not, like 18, 000 for a high [00:25:00] mileage one. So about 30 for a decent one, like any BMW, uh, M motor, especially from the E40 to Tom Ward. You got to check the rod bearings on them.

That’s a point of failure. Interesting fact, V8 in the E92, uh, the S65, which has eight independent throttle bodies, uh, is aluminum and actually 20 pounds lighter than the S54 it replaced, which was an M96. And they sound awesome. They get abysmal gas mileage. They’re like 19 on the highway. I don’t think any of us are

Crew Chief Eric: worried about mpgs.

If not, I would tell you to write the td

John Caffese: Certainly a car you can go down to the dealership and find one by buy it. There’s a million of them You’ll get financing on it. It’s going to be plush. It’s going to be comfy. It’s going to sound cool It’s going to look great They still look pretty modern and it’s super easy to drive if you want to carve up a back road you can I know BMW is kind of like almost cliche at this point.

It depends on who you are, but I think you could, I think you could acknowledge that, uh, anyone going down the roads and they go out to BMW convertible.

Crew Chief Brad: The counterpoint to that [00:26:00] car would be the SL

John Caffese: 55. Yeah. So let me, let me point to another. One on that list here. So that’s the s. That’s okay amg

Crew Chief Brad: No, no, no, but not the slk the bigger the bigger cruiser.

John Caffese: That’s certainly upclassing the m3 into like a six series So let’s

Crew Chief Eric: let’s bundle all those together then because I had on my list the f type Right, because those, as we know, Porsche Al just got a coupe and it wasn’t, it wasn’t hard to They made those convertibles. Yeah, they did. Then you have the S5 V8 convertible.

What was the one before the F Type? The XJ? Yeah. There’s, there’s The

Crew Chief Brad: XK.

Crew Chief Eric: The xk was I wouldn’t buy it. But yeah, it has a v8 You can kind of lump all those together You could also throw in the volvo c70 if you’re going non v8 car Just because of the hard top if you want to go all the way to the bargain basement on that You could go all the way down to the VW EOS as well, because it’s A GTI [00:27:00] convertible.

It’s RIO 3 53 70, those G 30 sevens, all those for me, just, they’re all just blobs of, of metal on top of wheels going down the road.

Crew Chief Brad: No personality whatsoever, but Have you thought about ’em? iata? ?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Spoiler alert. The answer to this podcast is not Miata. You mean a Fiat 1 24? Yeah, I’m all for that.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

John Caffese: I’m all

Crew Chief Eric: for a vintage

John Caffese: one. If, if we’re not racing it or tracking it, I would, I would take the turbo motor, uh, just so I can play with it and they make better sounds to me just cause turbo noises. I think to me, they come with a decent automatic now, right? And a hard top. So, I mean, certainly you can get in and go, I think a lot of people are going to shy away from how small it is.

If they’re just looking for a little, I say how small it is and I say little, but. I think what we were kind of lumping together as far as the luxury GT Boulevard cruisers. I think really that’s going to be the majority of the picks for the, Hey, I just want something to cruise around in. I’m not going to track it.

I want it to be sporty, but I don’t care if it’s [00:28:00] actual sports car.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s still come from the right for a minute before I start going super vintage on you. What about the Camaro? The current Camaros Gen five, six, I guess they are convertibles and they came in a four cylinder and VA options.

John Caffese: Yeah, so they got rid of the six bangers.

Same thing with the mosse. My son had a four cylinder turbo and the coyote and the, the Camaro is doing that. You gotta be careful though, because they knew. A new Camaro, especially like the two SS or whatever the top level package is, is actually the same price as about a base Corvette. So you have to ask yourself, do I need the backseat or do I need all the extra bells and whistles?

Or I just want to have cool sounds and open air or the Corvettes are target tops, even the, even the base coupon. So that’ll handle better, be a better driving car, totally different market and segments, even though we see a ton of them out doing the same thing. But I think for a street vehicle. You’re talking something different.

And then two, that’s a rag top or sport top. So I think that’s a big point that we should probably discuss, or a lot of people are going [00:29:00] to go into it. It’s like, Hey, I want a convertible. I want open air experience, but I don’t necessarily want a rag top. So we need to get a wrangle or a Bronco or a defender.

You’re going to have soft tops and core tops you can put on it. Uh, even if you have a Miyata, you can have soft tops, hard tops, you can put on it. Me, I’m more of a hard top guy, had some rack tops, there’s a rack top sitting right there, and I hate them.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s kind of funny because I feel like the hard top convertibles are this weird way of trying to have your cake and eat it too, and it just For me, it doesn’t work.

If it’s going to be a convertible, you need to be able to reach up and throw the top back as you know, going down the road and not worry about, you know, all that other kind of stuff. Like even driving home yesterday from Summit Point, I saw a Bentley hardtop convertible and he was trying to put it up, you know, while he was going down the road.

And I’m like. I mean, I mean, I guess it’s cool, but like even those cars, like there’s all the convertible Bentleys and rolls and all those British cars, but they’re not on the list because they don’t meet the price point for another couple of years when the bottom falls out of them.

Crew Chief Brad: If you’re looking for, [00:30:00] it’s going to be your only car, then I can see the appeal to the hard top.

Cause you’re making a compromise,

Crew Chief Eric: but

Crew Chief Brad: if it’s like a third or fourth car, it’s going to be a toy. I don’t think anything beats a rag top. I just think, I think they, the right car with the rag top just looks cool. It’s just, they’re just great. Like Eric was saying, throwing the, throwing the top back at any moment.

Like some of them, they’re all manual tops. I hate to go back to the Miata, but like a Miata is just a manual top. You literally reach up, you unclip two things and throw it back yourself. I mean, I think, I like the, the rag top versus the, the hard top. Now, granted the SL that I mentioned earlier was a hard top.

I don’t think they had the rag top in that year that I was looking at. I’m a fan of the rag tops.

John Caffese: There were rag tops up until 2002.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, and I’m talking about the 2003s with the motor. Well, I mean, if that that goes into a different range now, but I was thinking the ones that they [00:31:00] used to race against the Terminator Mustangs all the time.

There were the forum debates about what’s better the Terminator Mustang, or the SL 55. That generation of SL 55 had the Supercharged. Yeah. Also

John Caffese: supercharged. Yeah, they had the E55 and all that stuff in there. So, I mean, the SLK AMGs Starting from the first ones were supercharged, but then in 05 or 06, they went to the 5.

5 NA V8, which is awesome. The downside, it was automatic only. But it’s essentially a Cobra, a modern day Cobra. Very tiny car, front heavy, big motor, lots of torque, super light.

Crew Chief Eric: Negative. Negative. Negative. The only modern day Cobra.

John Caffese: That’s a great point. So what can you get like a mid 90s Viper for now? So I looked

Crew Chief Eric: because, you know, I argue with Andrew all the time about this and, you know, he’s, he’s changing cars constantly.

He just got that Elise, which is also an open air [00:32:00] experience, right? With a very, it’s, it’s, it. You know, incredible cosmic power in an itty, itty, itty, bitty living space. But, you know, he and I go back and forth. I was there, I make it feel like I was in Detroit when it happened, but we were all of the age when the Viper was released.

And you saw Iacocca and Carroll Shelby on stage together with the very first Viper. And you’re like, What am I seeing? Like, what is this? This car is from Star Trek, right? I mean, it was, it was so modern until you boiled it down and realized underneath it’s a truck and it’s basically a Cobra all over again, you know, 40 years later, no assists, no ABS, it’s bonkers, but it’s a timeless.

Design. It still looks good today. You get a really well cleaned, maintained, even some subtle changes, like going to the bigger wheels on the gen one vipers. They just look fantastic. Right now, Andrew’s of the camp of the gen twos, I guess you are the Mercedes built, uh, vipers. And I’m just like, man, To me, [00:33:00] it’s like I’m looking at the front of a school bus.

I don’t like the big flat nose. I don’t like the length and the width of them. You know, there’s something to be said about that V10 though. You’re looking for sound. That’s hard to beat.

John Caffese: The thing is though, who’s buying that? I think that’s the same person that’s seeking it out. You’re seeking out the Defender, the 348 or the 60s thing.

So if I was the, you know, Joe Blow and I had. 000 to spend realistically, and maybe, or maybe even a little more like we talked about. Am I buying an early to mid 90s car that could kill me? Or am I going to go down to the lot and pick up that M3, pick up that E class convertible? Which is a rack top, you know that could have a v8 in it tough sell or I could buy a brand new Four cylinder mustang, but I know that’s why we were saying, uh v8 for the experience But that four banger makes more power than the 90s mustang anyway, especially

Crew Chief Eric: with the power pack.

Yeah, absolutely So the thing about the viper though is if you look at the price point of the targa [00:34:00] viper Which it comes with its issues, right if you really dive into those cars, they don’t have windows The door handles on the outside don’t exist. That’s why you really don’t have the one. You got to be able to reach in there to do stuff.

They’re quirky. They’re not fully thought out until they hit about 97, 98, 99. At that point, you’re already about five years into the, into the run or into the build of that car because the, the GTS coupe had come out. And so they made all these changes to them and they, then those changes kind of trickled down to the Targa until they finally got rid of the target.

Now, that being said, if you look at the price point value for money, I mean, you’re talking a nineties. You know, I guess it would be considered a really high performance sports car. ’cause it’s not in the supercar category quite yet. Right. Because now we have high performance sports car supercar, hypercar, and God knows whatever adds after that.

But you can pick up a Gen one viper for about 20 5K all day long. I search for ’em on the regular just because it helps my boyish fantasy. But. It’s one of those cars that for 25k [00:35:00] versus the Ferrari that we started talking about, I can buy two in, in, in comparison, right? And have a parts car if I needed it.

So for me, being a wrench turner, I’d be okay with it. And I kind of want that brutal experience that the Viper brings. Like, it’s like, come on, man, send it. I want you to try to kill me. Secretly, I want to learn to tame that car, but you know, we’ll, we’ll get there eventually. That’s probably a topic for another day, but I still think the Viper could be a contender, but it’s a very long reach for that everyday cruiser jump in and go have fun car because I think there are some maintenance issues there with the car longer term.

John Caffese: So before we go to, uh, into the weeds and we can talk about this all night, I don’t want this to run on forever. So it’s too long for anyone to listen to. I have three. Uh, questions I want to ask either of you, either of you, all of you. And then, uh, I think we’ll all answer it real quickly. So we’re talking about some convertibles and we brought, we brought up a two seat first, uh, four seat.

So what would be your preference, uh, or your [00:36:00] recommendation to someone who’s saying, Hey, I’m looking for a second vehicle convertible. And then obviously because the chassis that you’re going to look at, whether it’s a, a two plus two or just a two seaters different me, I’m thinking verbal, I’m thinking open air experience.

While some of the two bucks twos are in the SUVs with a choice. I’m going with a two seater.

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, I’m going with a four seater

Crew Chief Eric: Okay, and I guess I’m going with whatever suits my wallet at this point I’m not partial. I don’t really care. I

John Caffese: think you can find things that fit the wallet in either category How about Eric personally? What would Eric personally? So

Crew Chief Eric: there’s a difference if I’m recommending for you like I have something in mind that I think fits All the criteria, and we can talk about that towards the end of the segment.

But for me personally, if I’m just buying for myself, the Fiat 1 24, both new and old. Um, I’m a big fan of nine 14, but then I already have one. So it’s like whatever. I [00:37:00] like the nine 11 targets, but I’m partial to the 9 64, which is your 1989 to 1992 timeframe with the three six, I’m. Outside of that, I’m actually okay with the Mark 3 or Mark 3 and a half VW Cabrios, the ones that look like a Mark 4, and they’re actually not, because a lot of guys do VR6 swaps on those.

They’re a lot of fun once you get them straightened out, all that kind of stuff.

John Caffese: Even the backseat on that is tiny.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I’m not but I don’t care. I can put the kids in the back still but I’m not putting four grown adults in that car Another one. I actually enjoyed driving. I got a chance to drive for a little over a week Uh while I was in san diego was a convertible beetle with the five cylinder As weird as that sounds that car checked all the boxes.

It was the simplicity of you know Crank the handle throw the top back plenty of power plenty of torque came in a manual Decent gas mileage. It was a great everyday car, you know, if it was just you so Missing three cylinders. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am a big fan of [00:38:00] the 94 audi cabrio The one that looks like the coupe quattro, but they chopped the top off of it Which it is basically the same car that came with the v6 Sadly, it has a terrible automatic transmission strapped to it, but that’s easily remedied I think in addition to that the only

John Caffese: two or four two

Crew Chief Eric: seats or four seats Oh, I don’t care either.

I’m fine.

Crew Chief Brad: But let me clarify why I said four, since there was that awkward silence, you all were expecting me to say more. And I thought I was just answering a question, but anyway,

John Caffese: I

Crew Chief Brad: answered the question. That’s all I was required to do. But for anybody that doesn’t know me. I’m six foot four and 300 pounds, so most of the two seaters, I’m not going to fit.

I don’t care how far the seat goes back or whatever. I’m not going to make it. So I’m looking, the two plus two at least gives me room to put the seat back a little further. [00:39:00] Uh, and to go with what Eric was saying, you know, if I’m going to list some of the convertibles that are on my, my hot list, the defender, the Wrangler, uh, are the two biggest ones.

Cause right now I’m on a big four by four kick and I miss my TJ. Really, I, I miss it a lot. Uh, that, that’ll go into another segment, you know, and another podcast later also. Funny enough, I want like a seventies beetle convertible.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. The super bees.

John Caffese: Yeah. And,

Crew Chief Brad: and then I want a sixties Impala convertible.

John Caffese: So if, if size wasn’t the issue, Brad, let’s just say theoretically you didn’t have fit issues or the cars that you had, or you’ve been in two seats, uh, that you have fitted. I mean, what would your preference be? I think his preference would be to be six inches short. No, no, no, no. I don’t think, I don’t think that, I don’t think he’d give that up.

Crew Chief Brad: No, I want to be, I want to be taller. Um, no, [00:40:00] I, I, my preference is still four seater. Okay. So my second

John Caffese: question on the, on the two or three, I’m going to ask you guys, we’ll start with Eric. Um, of the, some of the cars that we’ve listed, obviously we’re talking about experiences and uh, open air has been a big thing.

And let’s go back to kind of why we pegged herself on, on eight cylinders. It was for sound so I’ll open it up to non 8 cylinders But of those things what would be especially the ones we’ve talked about but this way we don’t have to bring up something else

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, so it would

John Caffese: be a motor that’s like hey, listen, that’s just got a very distinct sound I think I have some ideas where you’re gonna go.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah yeah, I mean the first thing out of my mouth is gonna be vr6 just because You know, it’s in the blood. There are two other cars on my list that I didn’t mention. And they’re basically the same car, right? One is vintage and one is modern. The Carmen Ghia convertible, which I adore those cars, coupe and convertible and the TT, right.

And, you know, I already have a coupe, so it’d be kind of cool to have a convertible. The sound of the one eight turbo, if you get the right exhaust, something from maybe from tectonics or something like that, they actually sound really good. [00:41:00] The stuff we run at the track, it’s loud for the sake of being loud.

Right? So the VR has got a great sound, but if I had to really funnel in on a car, especially on eight cylinders, I’m going there, right? If I had to be reasonable about my purchase and say, I want something fun. It checks the box. There are four or five cars on that list. Fox body Mustang, because the five Oh back then sounds fantastic with the proper exhaust.

And I would actually venture to say the C4 Corvette convertible, even though styling wise, it’s, it’s, it’s still very Knight Rider and that’s fine. But the C5 convertible is another option because those motors sound great. You could also, Brad’s like falling out of his chair because I’m recommending a Chevy.

Crew Chief Brad: Nobody, nobody chooses the Barbie Corvette willingly. What the heck is wrong with you?

John Caffese: So, uh, clarify on the C 4, are we talking the Gen 1, Gen 2 small block, or are we talking [00:42:00] like the LT 1, the original LT 1? Which was still calculated as a small block, but it definitely had the crossfire in it. Ignition and that they do have a distinct sound

Crew Chief Eric: so I would usually defer to Mountain Bay and band to answer that question But in my personal case if it was my c4 Corvette I would probably ditch all that Have an LS2 in it or I would put a ZR original ZR1 motor in there right something like that because I can’t leave anything alone But to add to that list, factory five Cobra, like Andrew Mason has, that is definitely an option because I actually read it and they, and Dan reader and they come up on the list.

When you search like cars. com in that criteria that I said, manual transmission with a V8 convertible under 45 K. You can actually pick up replica Cobras for under 30. So I was like value for money. And you want to, if you’re building

John Caffese: one done, you can’t do it.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m saying buying one, buying one ready to go.

Right. So for under 30, it’s actually, it’s a car that gets people’s attention. If that’s what you’re looking for. It, it checks all the boxes. Now you [00:43:00] have to respect that car. And I will say they handle better from what I understand than the original AC Cobras and all that kind of stuff. Other two chassis cars.

I would hope so. And they have some advantages and modernizations and all that kind of stuff. So it’s a very much more tame car compared to the original, right? So that’s on my list, but I, you know, to kind of drive the point home again, being the responsible adult I have inevitably become, I guess, regrettably I have to argue for the S five 50.

Coyote powered mustang convertible.

John Caffese: I do like the way the coyotes sound. They have a certain spaceship sound to them that I just love I don’t know what it is. So brad, what would be a motor? preferably a va that Get your get your willies going the most of maybe something we talked about or that we didn’t That is an open air experience.

You would you would enjoy maybe it’s a really cheap

Crew Chief Brad: the

John Caffese: The 50

Crew Chief Brad: mustangs Are they, I mean, there’s nothing that sounds like them. [00:44:00] Uh, the five Oh Mustang convertible is just the early nineties, the Fox body, not, and then the. An impala a 60s impala with a big block.

John Caffese: Yeah a big block definitely has yeah That’s fantastic.

Like a

Crew Chief Brad: 454 496 big old cam

John Caffese: and yeah cam with like 800 lift and some something something

Crew Chief Brad: lopey You know, it’s got a nice little lobe to it But it but it’s not like too bad where it’s undrivable in the street. Um something with a little bit of lope and it gets 200 horsepower because that’s how the big blocks work, right?

So,

John Caffese: uh, uh, very I can smell the how rich it’s running. So it idles super 60s drag strip Like every shit you’ve ever been around, right? Yeah, basically so or if I just pulled, you know spark plug on Any modern v8 But I will say

Crew Chief Brad: I will say In current times like what’s going what’s out for sale now [00:45:00] and over the last say 10 to 15 years I don’t think there’s anything out there that sounds better than the mercedes amg v8s.

John Caffese: That is a hard

Crew Chief Brad: sound

John Caffese: to beat They definitely have a distinct thump to them So my answer is going to be kind of obvious my original then I got two or three Run the reps. So obviously any, the Dino style V eight Ferraris. ’cause in a four 30, it was a clean sheet. It’s not the, the Dino, uh, engine from the seventies all the way up to, I think the, the 3 55 ended in 2000 or 99.

99. So, but the 360 ran to oh five or oh four. Uh, and those were the last ones of those motors. So any, any any car that you picked there? Probably a 3 55. We’re 348, uh, 355 or the 360 specifically because they have the five valve. So they just the 9000 rpm They absolutely scream, uh people in my family have them.

You guys have heard it It’s ridiculously loud, but it’s so butter smooth It sounds like an f1 car going down the road now Not everyone’s can of [00:46:00] worms sounds like two motorbikes going side by side Sometimes it’s a little tinny a little raspy not everyone’s into that. I love it screaming. I just It sounds cool.

Uh kind of why believe it or not. I like the vq So the vq sounds very similar to that. It’s got that that certain how uh, even the vr6 has a very Rolling house similar to that. Yeah, it’s kind of you know, the vq and some of the ferrari motors are a little more. Uh, Shrill, which I like I will agree that the amgs have an awesome sound to it.

Uh, very smooth Um, but I will say that The newer Chevy lt. One motors actually sound different than the lss. I had an LT one and a C seven Corvette, and the thing that absolutely rustles my Jimmy’s is I remember in geez, 2014 or 2015, I was down at Daytona for the Rolex and the C seven R had just came.

And I’m listening to it go by and for some reason it can be in a pack of cars and I can hear that distinctly from [00:47:00] everything else. They just sounded like hammers hitting the ground. And uh, I really believe having, having one and having heard others, especially ones with exhaust at the factory LT cars, whether it be the new Camaro or the new Corvette.

Certainly have that very distinct sound different from the ls’s which was different than the small block More of the style brad was talking about the lumpy, but they’re still very smooth and they rev And I think they just they have a different base to them I can’t define it, but I think those that sounds

Crew Chief Eric: it just dawned on me john You’ve been talking about ferraris.

I thought you said fierro Isn’t that a target as well? Yeah, it could.

John Caffese: So, doesn’t have a V8 in it, luckily. Does have a V6. Can’t supercharge him. I mean, you can put a Ferrari body kit or V8 body kit on it. Fierro’s, listen, we’ve had a few come out to the track on the rated car. I mean, if you want to feed out 124, you get yourself a FIERA.

FIERA

Crew Chief Eric: X9,

Crew Chief Brad: right?

John Caffese: Yeah, right. Wait, wait, wait, wait,

Crew Chief Brad: wait. I interrupt this podcast with a special announcement. Oh boy. [00:48:00] Cadillac

John Caffese: XLR.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh God.

John Caffese: So that was actually the Northstar motor. It didn’t, so the Cadillac XLR, for people who don’t know, it’s a hardtop convertible. It’s a C5 underneath, even though it was around during the years of the crossover from C5 to C6.

But it’s a Northstar motor, so you don’t have to change the oil. For what they say, like a hundred thousand miles, they can go without oil. Like you won’t have it

Crew Chief Brad: long enough.

John Caffese: It wouldn’t go a hundred thousand miles before you had gas. My

Crew Chief Eric: big problem with the XLR is they took a C5. And ran it through the same software that they use to produce max headroom and we ended up with that car I mean like who designed that thing, you know,

John Caffese: I just don’t get it On one hand you have to look at the xlr and go what was cadillac thinking right on the other hand You have to you got to give credit to the xlr.

They were going where an uncharted territory and most importantly You’ll remember tim allen came out and was the one who announced this that was the first v car for cadillac

Crew Chief Eric: That’s

John Caffese: true. So [00:49:00] that launched their whole brand And the Cadillac XLRVs are supercharged, North Stars, and um, Supposed to be doing the same thing with that Blackwing motor, and then

Crew Chief Eric: And I know we’re supposed to be circling back to a conclusion here, which we will never I got

John Caffese: one more question for ya, and that one question, why don’t you finish, go ahead.

Crew Chief Eric: So, but I was gonna say, there are some other cars that we’re probably not even thinking about, like, it kinda popped into my head, the uh In in britain, it was the voxel insignia, which was sold here as the buick regal But the regal convertible if you’re just looking for something, I don’t want to call it run of the mill But if you’re looking at something somewhat stylish Reasonably priced you could pick up new that’s also another option and it does come with a six cylinder gm6.

I have uh, I mean You can, what is it, the

John Caffese: Cascada, where it’s a cruise? Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: something like that.

John Caffese: I think the Cascada is an Eos or a Beetle, if they still made them, or a Murano, believe it or not, if you wanted to go that route.

Crew Chief Eric: But I mean, for the listening audience, I think we, as you mentioned, we’re enthusiasts.

So we’re always kind of thinking [00:50:00] German or thinking very high end American, but there are other options to this, you know, there’s

John Caffese: a, there’s a, what was it? The Toyota Solaris is a two door Camry, a drop top, fantastic car will last forever. It’s super soft. It’s perfect for a rental fleet and you can have that in your driveway too, for about 10 bucks.

That’s the truth, right? I mean, the oil change will be more than, uh, than the car and it’ll have as much personality as, um, your dead grandfather. So, um, so my last question I’m going to circle back is. You’re gonna have to pick uh, it’s somewhat of a conclusive one because even that’s going to take some time Of all the things we talked about we wanted to go Hey, what’s like a blue collar car that can go out with a max max max of fifty thousand dollars preferably less Convertible that had a v8 in it all the other options automatic two seat four seat suv [00:51:00] Whatever open air motoring v8, right?

That was our thing under fifty thousand dollars I think there’s two picks here for each person. So i’ll start with mine So i’m going to go with my enthusiast and which would also be my personal pick Which as we mentioned before it’s probably going to be any car from modena that you can afford that’s not a mondial Because that’s just terrible but you want to pick a 308 be magnum pi you want to pick a 328 and be silly I think the 348 or 355s you can find one of them price range would be a little more beat up But that’s really an enthusiast car checks all the boxes.

It’s open air sounds absolutely wicked It will drain your wallet as fast as it drains the gas tank though. So that’s something you just got to be aware of. But I mean, driver experience, which is what we’re like really getting at, driver experience, I think it’s second to none. And I don’t think you’re going to lose any money on it as far as the value of the car.

I think you’ll be in that car whenever you pay for it. I think, so I think the only money you’ll lose on that is the operating costs and the maintenance on it. Because if you buy a 348 today for 45, 000, you’re going to sell it in four or five years for 45, [00:52:00] 000. Uh, regardless of you brought 2000 or probably 15, 000 miles on it, which would be a lot.

I mean, that’d be three, 4, 000 miles a year, which on those cars are a lot. Um, if I were to buy one, I’d probably be doing about five to 6, 000, maybe 3, 000 miles on it a year. It’s about what I do in a toy car is now, especially with the street car. If I wanted to do something a little more mainstream, something that had Bluetooth, something that had heated seats, something a little more comfortable, or I just, Hey, I can.

You know, it’s a nice day out. I can drive it to work three, four days a week if I wanted to, I could take it to the beach, I could park it in the supermarket and go to CVS and not care about dinging it up or every person asking me a question, whether it’s a Thunderbird or, uh, an older British tank that’s going to get a lot of attention or a bright red Ferrari.

I’m going to go with the, uh, the E92 M3. Hard top. I can live with that on a daily basis if I wanted to. It goes up and down. The three series they’re they’re very plain in their execution so that they get a lot of uh, Rib, they get ribbed for that Uh, but that’s a good thing in this scenario because it’s not going to be a ton of problems The bmws have some [00:53:00] issues, but they’re pretty straightforward Cars been around long enough where a lot of the problems are easily solved.

It’s we’re not figuring things out anymore We know which ones to avoid. We wouldn’t know which ones to find Your wife could drive it. I say that in the sense that anyone can drive it. So if they don’t drive A stick, it’s not a problem. There’s a really good transmission there. It’s not just some slush box.

If you don’t want the rattles of a rag top, you’ve got the hard top. It’s a V8, it’s bad on gas, seats four, it’s got a nice trunk. I mean, you can drive across country with it. You can drive. Um, it’d be perfect one lap of america car if you want to do a convertible So it’ll go on track and go there and realistically they’re way under budget, right?

So you could probably get a really nice example for 25 30 and have some money left over if you had to spend that extra money If you had a 45 000 hour cash or check that you absolutely had to spend You could spend another five ten thousand dollars on the car making it your own whether you do some wheels or some suspension or whatnot but I think [00:54:00] Generally speaking the type of people that were recommending these two aren’t necessarily doing that.

So hey, listen save some money Get a cool car that looks a lot more expensive than it is because it’s still a bmw It’s still only last year’s bmw. The g20 just came out So really it’s only a generation old even though technically it’s two but most the general public won’t know that they all look the same And then you go from there.

So my my personal enthusiast pick would be Probably 348. I think the the run of the mill If I were to say, Hey, I want to look at a convertible. I wanted to be eight. I wanted to sound cool. I’d say, go get yourself an M92, M3 and my runner up, which we didn’t talk about would be any, uh, C5, C6, C7 Corvette that you can find in the price range with a target top.

You pick your styling. They’re all truck motors, which stop transmissions and do smokey burnouts. So just pick one that you like.

Crew Chief Brad: So for me, I’m going to break it down to off roader, low and slow, and just street cruiser. So for the off roader, [00:55:00] obviously I want to do a defender, like a 90s defender, or a TJ.

Uh, Wrangler with a motor swap, probably an LS one because they’re, they’re, you can, they can be had for relatively cheap and they, there’s all kinds of kids out there, you know, that fit right in for the low and slow. I’m thinking like a 60s and it’s a low and slow a and B. It’s a 60s Impala or 60s Lincoln Continental.

Nice. Um, the, the suicide suicide doors. I don’t know. I don’t know if a well, yeah, I don’t know if a well sorted one’s going to be in the budget. Um, those cars are pretty desirable, especially after entourage came out. So,

John Caffese: so a decent one is about 25, 30, 000. I know. Cause I, I look constantly because I love those cars.

Crew Chief Brad: Okay. So, so then, yeah, that, that, that ticks all the boxes for me also for just. Regular cruiser, drop top, turnkey, you go to the dealership, pick one up anywhere, the SL Mercedes with the V8, it doesn’t [00:56:00] necessarily have to be an AMG, probably without the AMG moniker makes it better for daily driver use. Uh, and parts are going to be a little bit cheaper because it doesn’t have the AMG tax and things like that I think the SL Mercedes of the 2000s the early 2000s I think those are my picks.

John Caffese: They like invented sporty convertibles the SLs in the 50s I will do

Crew Chief Brad: an honorable mention and it’s going to be a 50 fox body mustang of the yeah the fox body generation Sam is so proud of you right now. So

John Caffese: Brad, a T top Fox body or a soft top rag top Fox body?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, I said Fox body Mustang T tops only look right on Camaros.

You know, the mullet’s got a flow in the wind behind you.

John Caffese: Oh man.

Crew Chief Eric: I love

John Caffese: me

Crew Chief Eric: an

John Caffese: iron,

Crew Chief Eric: but go ahead, Eric. All right. So I’m going to lead with my number one pick for anybody that’s looking for a turnkey [00:57:00] vert in the last four years. That’s gotta be an S five 50 coyote powered five Oh Mustang. It’s a handsome looking car.

It looks good. As a coupe, it looks as good as a convertible. And a lot of people say, no, it doesn’t, but I actually, I’ve looked at them over and over the silhouette of the car is fantastic. It doesn’t lose any of the appeal that the coupe has. It’s got all the same packaging, all the same, uh, you know, electronic stuff, all the creature comforts, everything you could ask for is in that.

Mustang, right? At the end of the day, that for me checks every box on the list and Ford warranty and everything else that comes with that. Right. And I could go buy one today. Unlike the M three where I have to go hunt for one, the Mustangs are more plentiful. They’re just, they’re everywhere. And the price point is well under the tip, the MSRP.

That you put out in terms of what your budget was. So I think, again, the Mustang comes in a variety of colors. If they made a GT three 50 convertible version, sign me up, you know, with that flat plane crank, you can’t beat that sound. I’m sorry. That would be 70 or 80, 000, [00:58:00] but you get my point though. Right?

So there’s a lot of things you can do with the Mustang. The other thing I look at is. I’m not a fan of the hard top. Like we talked about the soft top is fine for me, but the aftermarket following for the Mustang is also much larger than every car we’ve talked about here, there’s wheel packages, brake packages, stuff you can swap.

Uh, you want body kits, you want wings, you want, it doesn’t matter. You want bling it’s available. Right. So I also look at it from that perspective because everybody wants to. Personalize their car. The E92 M3 is an example. It’s a solid car. It’s a solid choice, but you’re limited to what you can do. And you’re also still running around in those kind of German circles of, if you can’t get the parts from Bimmer world or ECS is the only place you’re going to get the parts for him, right?

Ford. I can, I can get parts for that car and maintain it at every seven, 11 in every state, right? It doesn’t matter.

John Caffese: You can buy a Coyote from Walmart.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. Personal, like, this is the car I have to have because I’m having an absolute midlife crisis. There’s really three of them in [00:59:00] that category for me.

The Factory 5 Cobra, the Dodge Viper Gen 1, and the Fiat 124 Abarth, right? But that’s a personal, guilty pleasure. I’m losing my mind and I have to have a convertible car. All of those fit those price points, but if I have to stay true to my roots And pick a VAG product, I would get an S5 Cabrio with, if the manual is an option, I would do it with the V8, but I have to have the chains fixed, right?

And the chain guides fixed. Immediately. Right. It’s like a 911 with the IMS bearings and stuff, right? So what year did they switch to the

John Caffese: supercharged motor? The three oh

Crew Chief Eric: that well, 13. Yeah. B. I don’t remember. I don’t, I I’ve, I’ve separated myself from the B six, seven, eight, nine, 10, whatever the heck they are now.

Yeah. But, but I just know that, you know, those, those four, two motors, when they’re taken care of, they’re actually quite reliable. They make good power. It’s easy to get 400 out of them, especially if you do like an RS chip and stuff like that. [01:00:00] So those are

John Caffese: what? 8, 000

Crew Chief Eric: RPM, 85. Yeah. They spin pretty hard.

John Caffese: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: And the other thing is you can get them with Quattro so you can actually use it in the wintertime. So I see that for me, it’s also a four seater, a two plus two, uh, so you can use that even to cart the family around and use it as an everyday car, even as a convertible. So that pretty much, you know, kind of wraps up my thing, but I, I would still, if I’m recommending for somebody else, it’s really hard to beat that Ford when you really look at it compared to everything else we’ve talked about here.

John Caffese: I think the S5 is a fantastic choice. I know we didn’t talk about it much. Um, I’m surprised you don’t have one right now. I may, I, you know, hopefully I see you this weekend. You might be driving up on one that we flushed it out and realize how much sense it makes for you and your life. But, uh, no guys, I enjoyed it a bunch.

I know we could talk all night about this. Hopefully we can pick some other topics or get back from everyone else and see what they say. Thank

Crew Chief Brad: you for being on as well. We appreciate you. I

John Caffese: appreciate being out. [01:01:00] So as long as I’m around, hopefully I can, I can help you guys out.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. And this is a lot more civil than some of the conversations go on Slack.

So I really enjoyed this. But with that, let me close with something real quick. I want to make sure the listeners understand, you know, uh, where, where we are on things here as a full disclaimer, GTMs, high level assessment of all the cars we’ve talked about is based on our member and ownership experiences.

And we urge you to do your own research and fact checking before committing to any one vehicle. GTM is not responsible for your satisfaction, happiness, or overall track experience. with the vehicle that you choose. Make sure to visit some vehicle specific online forums and or owners clubs for highly detailed and firsthand information on any vehicle you might be interested in.

Crew Chief Brad: Did John write that for you?

Crew Chief Eric: No, no, no.

Crew Chief Brad: He is the resident law lawyer in the group. The

John Caffese: consigliere, yes. I got one question for Brad. When you’re rolling in your five Oh, who are you listening to?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, wow. [01:02:00] Snoop.

John Caffese: No, it’s gotta be Vanilla Ice, man, you’re cruising in your 5 0. No, I’m

Crew Chief Brad: cruising in my 6 4. My 6 4. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: alright, Dr.

Dre. Double dub. And on that bombshell, I guess we’ll end it. Peace.

Crew Chief Brad: See y’all later.

Crew Chief Eric: You’ve heard us say it many times before. Without members like you, none of this would be possible. GTM also relies on its sponsors and partners in order to achieve all of its goals. We wanted to take a moment to do a quick shout out to all of our affiliates out there. Chazz has used auto parts, hooked on driving, AutoFab race cars, OG Racing, Battery Warehouse, Radial Tire, RLC Automotive Industries, Crutchfield Decals and Numbers, Brian Schad Photography, Auto Italia, Ultimate Outlaws, Breach Tech Solutions, TLCT [01:03:00] MotorWorks, and Fontana Web Designs.

Without you guys, it really wouldn’t be possible. And if you’re interested in becoming a supporter of GTM, you can always look to our website and become a Patreon member, but also go to www. gtmotorsports. org under About and look up Sponsors and Partners for additional information surrounding advertising.

From all of us at GTM. Thank you for your support.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at grandtouringmotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from GTM? Great. So do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it, but please remember we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a [01:04:00] no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going.

So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help.

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

The Middle Ground: Factory Five Cobras, ’50s Cruisers, & Modern Muscle

As the debate unfolds, the panel explores the “middle zone” of the V8 convertible universe:

  • Factory Five Cobra: A modern take on the classic, with big power and raw driving feel.
  • 1955 Ford Thunderbird, Pontiac Catalina, Packard Caribbean: Stylish cruisers with manual gearboxes and big V8s.
  • Restomods: Tastefully updated classics with modern EFI, suspension, and A/C.

These cars offer character, sound, and style—but they’re not casual buys. You have to want them.

The Modern Picks: BMW E92 M3, SL55 AMG, Mustang GT, Audi S5

For those who want comfort, reliability, and Bluetooth, the panel recommends:

  • BMW E92 M3 Convertible: Hardtop, V8, DCT or manual, usable rear seats, and prices starting around $18K.
  • Mercedes SL55 AMG: Supercharged V8, luxury cruiser, and surprisingly affordable.
  • Ford Mustang GT (S550): Coyote V8, great sound, massive aftermarket, and everyday usability.
  • Audi S5 Cabrio: Quattro grip, V8 or supercharged V6, and understated style.

These are the cars you can buy today, drive tomorrow, and enjoy without worrying about engine-out services or Lucas electronics.

The Oddballs: Murano CrossCabriolet, Land Rover Defender, VW Beetle

No GTM debate is complete without some curveballs:

  • Nissan Murano CrossCabriolet: So bad it’s good. Maybe.
  • Land Rover Defender: British charm, Buick V8, and off-road cred.
  • VW Beetle Convertible (5-cylinder): Surprisingly fun and practical.

Sound Matters: The Best V8 Noises

When it comes to audible joy, the panel agrees:

  • Ferrari V8s (348, 355, 360): High-revving screamers.
  • AMG V8s: Deep, thunderous, and unmistakable.
  • Chevy LT1s and LS engines: Hammering torque and classic rumble.
  • Fox Body Mustangs: Raw, lopey, and nostalgic.

Final Picks: What Would You Recommend?

Each panelist wraps with their top choices:

  • John: Ferrari 348 for the enthusiast; E92 M3 for the practical buyer.
  • Brad: SL Mercedes for comfort; 60s Impala or Lincoln Continental for style; Wrangler or Defender for off-road fun.
  • Eric: S550 Mustang GT for all-around value; Factory Five Cobra or Gen 1 Viper for personal indulgence; Audi S5 for Euro flair.

Don’t agree, let’s agree to disagree? Come share your opinions and continue the conversation on the Break/Fix Discord!

Whether you want a boulevard cruiser, a backroad bomber, or a rolling conversation starter, the key is knowing your budget, your wrenching tolerance, and your driving goals. And remember: you don’t casually buy a Ferrari or a hot rod. You seek them out.

Guest Co-Host: John Caffese

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.
Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

The Gentleman Driver

At the highest levels of sports car racing, teams are required to include at least one amateur driver—often successful business leaders—alongside professional racers. These individuals fund teams, purchasing their seats in elite motorsport classes, particularly in endurance racing series like World Endurance Championship (WEC) and IMSA.

But here’s where the film’s depiction of gentleman drivers raised questions. Are they truly contributing to the sport, or does their presence distort the competitive nature of racing?

In this episode, we examined The Gentleman Driver, an 88-minute documentary that explores the world of wealthy entrepreneurs moonlighting as motorsport competitors. Following four self-made tycoons, the film attempts to demystify their motivations, their impact on professional racing, and the surprising business dynamics that shape the sport.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

The Business of Racing

A central theme in the film is how these entrepreneurs merge motorsport with business. Ricardo Gonzalez, for example, leveraged his racing success to bring WEC to Mexico City, viewing motorsport not just as a passion but as a marketing opportunity.

Meanwhile, Ed Brown’s role as Patron CEO made his involvement a seamless brand extension—his company owned the team. But is sponsorship-driven competition a fair representation of racing merit?

The Technical Gap Between Amateurs and Pros

One of the key concerns raised in this episode was the driving capabilities of gentleman drivers compared to seasoned professionals. Despite their willingness to invest time and resources, their lack of experience is apparent. While they receive coaching and mentorship from their professional teammates, they often struggle with high-speed decision-making and adaptability – critical elements of endurance racing.

So, are they truly an asset to their teams? While they contribute financially, their skill levels sometimes hinder performance. The film briefly touches on this but doesn’t explore the technical nuances of how teams compensate for the disparity between professional and amateur drivers.

Film Overview

Netflix: Incorporating gripping race-track broadcasts, in-car action-cam’ footage and interviews with experts in success, flow & sports psychology, the film utilises access to everything from pit garages, to personal conversations & tours with the four business tycoons at their places of work. Following the men through both their business and racing lives, this unique documentary follows the Gentlemen Drivers through their 2015 and 2016 seasons in the FIA World Endurance Championship and IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship, exploring what makes them unique, how they got to where they are, and how they deal with their “two lives”.

The documentary follows four men:

  • Paul Dalla Lana, a Canadian medical real estate mogul

  • Ricardo Gonzalez, a businessman who helped construct the University of Arkansas campus in Mexico City

  • Ed Brown, the former Patron CEO

  • Michael Gauche, head of Molecule Labs, a vaping chemical company

Each of them represents a different entry point into professional racing, but what they all share is immense wealth. According to the film, competing as a gentleman driver requires a financial commitment of $1 to $5 million per season, yet there is no prize money awarded for their victories. Their return on investment? A trophy, prestige, and the thrill of racing at iconic venues like Le Mans.

Is this sustainable? More importantly, does it alienate grassroots racers who dream of climbing the ranks based on skill alone?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts, but we’ve expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we want to share our stories with you. Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge and information through our podcast, Brake Fix.

What’s going on everybody. This is Brad, your host with me as always is Eric. In this week’s episode, we discussed the gentleman driver, a documentary that follows four tycoons who moonlight as motorsport competitors and examines what fuels them to succeed both at work and on the track. Now, some of you might be thinking, this isn’t new.

This particular film, it debuted in 2018. That’s true. And even then, the content was from the 2015 16 World Endurance Challenge, Le Mans, and IMSA season. But, it happens to be new to us, as a recommended to watch by Netflix.

Crew Chief Eric: Right, Brad. But before we start, we need to [00:01:00] define what is a Gentleman Driver? The film frames the answer during the opening credits with a subtitle screen that reads, At the highest levels of sports car racing, teams are required to include at least one amateur driver in their lineup.

These men are often successful entrepreneurs who can afford to compete in this elite sport. They are known as gentlemen drivers. So with us tonight to discuss the film, outside of just me and Brad, your normal host, is a panel of GTM members from various regions. John, Tanya, Aaron, and Sam. Thank you all for joining us and being on tonight’s episode of Break Fix.

So let’s get into it. As you guys know, this is basically an 88 minute documentary that follows these four tycoons. So we have Paul Dallolana, who is a medical real estate mogul out of Canada. You have Ricardo Gonzalez, who is part of uh, Ricardo Gonzalez Racing now. He used to be part of G Drive and [00:02:00] he is part of the construction and architecture crew that built the University of Arkansas in Mexico City.

Ed Brown, who’s the Patron CEO at the time before it got purchased by Bacardi. And you had Michael Gauche, who is the head of MicroLabs, which is an e cig and vape company that makes the uh, Like what’s the chemicals that go inside of that? So you’ve got basically four millionaires or maybe multi millionaires sitting around at multiple times of the table kind of trading stories at this almost like business dinner as you go out throughout the film.

So I want to get your guys gut reaction on the film as a whole. We’re not going to talk about its cinematography, the style. It’s a documentary. It’s a modern documentary. They’ve interleaved a bunch of different stories together. from everybody. So we’ll start with John. What did you think?

John Richter: For me, it was interesting to see a part of the sport that I hadn’t really like paid attention to before.

Like I knew there were amateur drivers in with the pros in some of the categories, but [00:03:00] never realized it was a Component of what makes it successful and also how much one seat actually costs pretty crazy. Yeah. It’s just fascinating. Just learning, learning more about how that works. And especially with the, um, the one guy that ended up like starting his own team and then ended up winning the first race in Mexico for the WEC, that was cool.

Just to saying like. Them tie their business experience into the, the racing world. Aaron, what did you think?

Erin Kelly: Similar to John thought it was really interesting to learn about this aspect of racing that I hadn’t known too much about before for me, uh, having just finished my business degree. I think the part that most entertained me was seeing all these.

Business people talking about doing this as a side thing and how they had to manage their business life around this aspect of their personal life. And that, as John noted, some of them chose to combine those two things. And I liked how the movie took us into some of their business life, like the Patron guy.

Touring his Patron [00:04:00] farm in Mexico. So yeah, I thought it was a really interesting view into that.

Sam Harrington: Sam, what about you? I thought it was a really good documentary. I I’ve been very familiar with the gentlemen drivers and various racing series for a while now. Ed Brown from the extreme speed motorsport. I’ve followed him for a while because I really liked the team and the drivers.

And I met him a couple times at different IMSA races. Got his autograph on some ESM car posters up in the garage right now. Paul Bellilana, I’ve heard of. I didn’t realize he was a gentleman driver until I watched the documentary. I’ve just heard the name. Other guys, I didn’t really know who they were, but it was a cool look behind.

They’re really limited on time. So they couldn’t really, you know, smoosh in that much stuff with their businesses and racing and their work life balance and all that stuff. But they give you a good quick look in at what it’s like. So I liked it. Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: Thought it was interesting. I think within the first five minutes, they said something about how it’s.

[00:05:00] Meritocracy. And that implies that your wealth and privilege doesn’t get you a seat at the table, but that’s exactly what it takes to do it, in a sense. So, I thought that was interesting to start it out that way, but, but try to be the contradiction of that, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: I saw a lot of that later in the film, and we’ll get to that as we go through.

There were definitely some contradictions in terms there. But Brad, what did you think?

Crew Chief Brad: I thought it was good, documentary wise, but I don’t know how I feel. About the concept of a gentleman driver or an amateur driver. Not just a gentleman driver. I mean someone who buys their way into the sport to compete.

I mean, they even said it in the in the film. You look around other sports and other disciplines, especially physically demanding ones like baseball or soccer or football or whatever. You can’t just buy your way onto the team. You can buy a team. But you can’t buy your way onto and be able to compete and be successful.

But in the [00:06:00] driving world, it seems to be par for the course. It’s normal. It’s a way these teams fund themselves with these contributions from these gentlemen drivers. I find it interesting that if I wanted to and I had the funds I could buy myself into a professional racing series, but if I was a professional, I don’t know how I would feel about that.

Crew Chief Eric: And since we’re talking about gut reaction to the film I think within, uh, like Tanya said, within those first five minutes, it really set the tone. And I don’t know that it set the tone in the right way. One of the immediate reactions I had to it was, even though I’ve been a fan of Lamont’s radio for a very long time, and we’ve all heard the voice of John Hindhoff for a long time, I’ve never actually seen his face.

And so, I actually thought I was being punked. Because I thought it was Paco Tos, who played Moscow on Money Heist, which is another Netflix show, and somebody was dubbing John Hindhoff’s voice over top of him. And I was like, this is, this is something I [00:07:00] cannot unsee. Because right now, John is wearing a beard.

And I’m like, this is not right. But then I started to put two and two together. And

Erin Kelly: when you said that the announcer, we had heard him all the time, but had never seen him. And as soon as he came on screen and you said he looked like some guy that I’d never heard of, I think he looks like a dark haired version of Simon Pegg.

And I couldn’t figure out why Simon Pegg was narrating a movie about racing. And, and then He’s very versatile. I recognized the voice from Amazon. I’m like, this is that guy? And John was like, this is that guy?

Sam Harrington: Have you guys not 24? He narrates, well, okay, Jason Statham does it, but he is a big focus in Truth in 24.

It shows him and shows his face.

Erin Kelly: Is that movie better than this one?

Sam Harrington: It’s got Statham in it.

Crew Chief Eric: You haven’t seen it? All

John Richter: over

Crew Chief Eric: it. I’ve seen it. I have a copy of it. Oh my god, it’s amazing. What are they about? So the very first one, it’s about Audi’s triumph during the Le Mans year where they had to replace [00:08:00] the entire rear end of the car.

And so it focuses all about that because that was actually a, a pinnacle turning point in Le Mans, because nobody had ever done anything like that before. Once you were screwed, you were out. You’re, you know, if you screwed up the back of the car, it was over. And they devised a way to basically, the car was like an erector set and they went done and back out on track.

Seven minutes. Yeah. And they figured out that it didn’t break the rules. And so they were able to do it and they kept practicing it and they needed to be able to make sure that if something went wrong, they could fix the car and get it back out. And it was the first time that ever happened. And that was the same year that the Audi cars finished one, two, three.

And so it follows that story. The second one, I didn’t end up watching. I don’t remember what it’s

Sam Harrington: about their battle with Peugeot.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right.

Sam Harrington: So basically if you like Lamar and you like Audi and you’re like, Jason, say some sexy voice. This is the documentary for you. You’ve checked all the boxes. Hey

John Richter: John,

Erin Kelly: I know what

John Richter: we’re watching tonight.

We’ve actually watched almost every State of the Moon. My brother

Sam Harrington: and I quote it [00:09:00] all the time. All the time, like Tom Christensen. All the

Crew Chief Eric: time from it. Mr. Lamont. Obviously, that, that was all noise. I’ll go back to one of the other subtitle screens, and it reads, By regulation, racing teams must create a driver lineup consisting of one gentleman driver and two professionals.

However, they throw that up on the screen and they don’t clarify it right away. In reality, it only applies to two types of racing. It doesn’t exist in IndyCar. It doesn’t exist in NASCAR. It doesn’t exist in a lot of other sports. It only exists in WEC, which most of us know as Le Mans and then in IMSA.

And then from there, it only applies to two classes, LMP2. And GTAM, which we know consists of amateur racers. So I wanted to get your guys opinion on that whole construct. Why does it still exist? Are we continuing to do this for the sake that we’ve always done it for tradition? [00:10:00] Or is there really a reason to bring these guys in as gentleman drivers?

Sam Harrington: Yeah, the reason we do it, and we’ve already touched on it, is they’re necessary to the sport because of the money that they bring in. Without them There just wouldn’t be enough cars and teams out there. So, that’s why we do it, and, I mean, I think any one of us, if we had the means, we would do the same thing.

John Richter: It’d be tempting not to, wouldn’t it? Like, if you have the money, like, spend it. Live your best life. Like, I think I would, but, if I was a professional driver that worked my way up through the ranks, I’d kind of feel like I got cheated. It’s like somebody, somebody played like Pascoe don’t like collect 200 or whatever from Monopoly.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m with you guys. I think they set the stage in such a way that it really showed racing as this extreme thing that only flamboyant, extremely rich playboys could be a part of. And that’s a, I think a, an ideal that we’ve been trying to do away with for a long time. So let me phrase it this [00:11:00] way. Do you feel that it might turn off the grassroots enthusiast to see racing portrayed in this way?

Sam Harrington: No, straight up no. I think the enthusiasts like it because it’s more cars and more teams on the track. I used to be a hater back in the day, like, oh, these rich guys get to do this. And I’m like, that’s awesome. I would do that too. That’s great. Good for them.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about these rich guys. So Sam, you mentioned two of them.

I got a little confused partway through. Because I didn’t know if this was a story about them or a story about racing. And I thought the film started to lose focus when we spent a ton of time talking about building the University of Arkansas campus and these kind of things. For me, it drew away from what we were really talking about.

What does that have to do with The Gentleman Driver?

Erin Kelly: Yeah, I, I 100 percent thought that it was a story about Those gentlemen drivers kind of bringing an eye to what a gentleman driver is through the eyes of those four men. [00:12:00] And I still found that interesting, but I agree that it wasn’t necessarily documentary about racing as a whole.

It was about this one. Subtopic within racing from those four viewpoints.

Crew Chief Brad: What I find interesting was that all of them, when you listen to their backstories, they all had, I mean, for the most part, except for, I think Paul Dalla Lana, who actually coincidentally got his start. At a track day like we do.

Erin Kelly: Yeah, I thought that was really cool

Crew Chief Brad: I thought all of them had racing in their past, but it seemed like the general I guess commonality between their origin stories was that none of them were good enough to go pro.

So they found these I guess ways to make money as entrepreneurs, and then they bought their way back into a sport that they weren’t good enough to do on their own talent.

Sam Harrington: I wouldn’t necessarily say they weren’t good enough, but you get a point where if you don’t have the right [00:13:00] funding at that time and those resources, you can’t go any farther.

Erin Kelly: Yeah, that seems to be the theme for. Ricardo, I think I remember him saying that, you know, he stopped at a certain point because he had kids and just wasn’t right in his life. And also like he ran out of funding is what it sounded like to me.

Crew Chief Eric: A gentleman driver will spend anywhere from one to 5 million per race season to compete.

There is no prize money. Now we do have minimum drive time requirements, which I thought were pretty. Pathetic for lack of a better term. These guys only have to drive for an hour and a half. So I’m looking at value for seat time. And we do that a lot. So let’s say five to 10 million, as the subtitle said, part of the way through the film, and you’re getting an hour and a half of driving.

Sam Harrington: That’s fair. But five to 10 million to them. Isn’t the same as it is to us. And they’re also there with some of the best teams and drivers in the world. They’re not those guys. But they’re still out there and they’re still out at those events. I mean, small price to pay to drive at Le Mans with a chance to win.

Crew Chief Brad: And [00:14:00] they’re not also just paying for track time at like a DE event like we are. They’re not paying 5 million for an hour and a half at a DE. I mean, they’re paying to win the race, uh, hopefully for them, which comes with prizes and it comes with marketing for them. I mean, the Ricardo Gonzalez was looking to win Silverstone to help drum up sponsorship and marketing and I guess, interest in hosting the, the WEC race in Mexico.

So it’s, it’s, it’s not just about, Oh, I need an, I’m going to get an hour and a half of track time. It’s not just all about the track. It’s about the things that they can do to take this and merge it into their professional lives as well.

Crew Chief Eric: So Sam, and you have a lot more knowledge about this particular facet of racing.

I don’t know that the argument holds a lot of water when you look at the overall percentage of funding that gentlemen drivers bring to the sport, I would make the argument that the sponsorships from the sports companies, let’s say it’s under armor or Nike or something like that, or even the [00:15:00] tobacco companies, whatever it might be, would bring in more than these gentlemen drivers would now on an individual team level.

On an independent entry level like at LMP2, I could understand that, but on the overall funding of the sport itself, it’s got to be less than 2%.

Sam Harrington: I think it’s probably more than you think. So especially for things like IMSA and WEC that aren’t as big as Formula 1 and IndyCar, they don’t find a lot of big time sponsors and sponsorship deals because there’s just not the return on investment there.

So that’s where they have to rely on the Gentleman Drivers to come in and bring that funding to a team. I mean, there’s even paid drivers in Formula One. Nicholas Latifi for Williams, his dad’s buying him that seat. Lance Stroll, his dad owns the team.

Crew Chief Eric: That was the funny part about Ed Brown. Of the four Gentleman Drivers, He’s the CEO of Patron.

Patron’s running the team, so it only made sense to put the boss in the car. So I kind of felt like he was the odd one out versus [00:16:00] the other three that really did, let’s say, buy their way in. And to Brad’s point, Paul Dallolana, he started lower in the ranks and worked his way up. And obviously he could afford to buy his seat on a GTAM team.

So for me, I really Disconnected from Ed Brown? I know, uh, Sam, you’re a fan of him, but what did you guys think about that scenario?

Erin Kelly: I thought it was interesting how he framed his first involvement as someone like told him to get in the car. Like they brought the car to him and said, Oh, try this out and we think you’ll like it.

And okay, now that, now that you got in the car, we’re going to make you do this for the next few days and really like it. So I thought that was a little, it was much different than the other backstories, I guess, maybe most similar to. Paul Della Lana, who went to, you know, a track event and loved it, which I think, um, at least I got involved in the sport and could very much empathize with and, you know, see that path.

So it was just different.

Crew Chief Eric: So at the end of the day, they’re taking home a trophy. You’re [00:17:00] correct, but they’re not getting money back from this. It seems like a loss leader.

Executive Producer Tania: So what I don’t think the movie ever addressed. Which doesn’t flow with preconceived opinions or biases against when you see these rich multi millionaire billionaire folks that are throwing their money into this is there’s an ego there.

You, you can because you can, because it doesn’t you having all that money. Spending 5 million a race or per race season, what have you, you can still enter a competitive racing series. I mean, Sam’s doing it, right? I mean, there’s lower classes, but it’s an ego thing. You want to suddenly be at the very top because in your daily life, that’s what you are.

That, that’s what you’ve been training yourself for for decades. You, your type A personality, your go, go, go. They portrayed the gentleman in the movie as actually very. grounded and down to earth and [00:18:00] not having an ego, which I felt confused as I was watching, because I went in with an expectation that these guys are just going to be total.

Crew Chief Eric: The gentleman who was the CEO from L’Oreal, I thought he actually took away from the film because he contradicted what the other people were saying. And the biggest takeaway I took from him was. He said back when he was a gentleman driver, it really didn’t matter if we messed up. We were just there for fun and spending our money.

And so I thought that detracted from the overall message compared to these four gentlemen, because they were trying to be active parts of the team. You could actually see that they were struggling. They didn’t want to let the team down, but there is an exception there that I caught. And I don’t know if anybody else did when they were interviewing Ricardo Gonzalez early on.

And he’s telling his backstory on how he got his seat in LMP2. As Aaron highlighted, there was a gap there where he raced, then he gapped, and he came back. He said that when he raced on a lower scale, the [00:19:00] competition was just not there for him. And I, I, I, I actually paused the film there, rewound it, and I’m like, did I just hear you right?

Because there’s, to your point, there’s plenty of series out there, be it Spec Racing, be it Super Trofeo Lamborghinis, or Ferrari Challenge, all those crash fests that we’re all well aware of, that plenty of people buy their way into, and they’re plenty competitive. So, to your point, I actually thought there was ego there, and I felt it from Ricardo more than I did from anybody else.

Sam Harrington: I mean that we all have egos. There’s no question that you know That’s that’s just how they are. That’s Unfortunately, it’s kind of one of the side effects that comes with that level of success and moving up the chain Professionally, you know, it kind of happens and most race car drivers are going to have an ego too.

So successful businessmen, now you get to be a sweet race car driver. It’s going to happen.

Executive Producer Tania: I just don’t understand the point of the gentleman driver because, okay, it’s great that you have all this money and you can go do it. I mean, more power [00:20:00] to you. Like John said, live your best life the best way you know how, but it’s like, okay.

So this clearly started as something maybe decades ago where rich people wanted to go do rich people things. And racing really fast with, you know, the top people in a series was that thing and now it just feels like it’s, you know, a heritage thing that’s carrying on and which is fine, but it doesn’t seem realistic or grounded and clearly not grounded in the everyday persons.

Erin Kelly: I think that’s really interesting and it’s making me connect to something that Eric said earlier about the L’Oreal CEO and how maybe that’s how it started and then these four gentlemen are trying to make it into something more serious than it either actually is or to move the gentleman driver into something that’s more serious moving forward to show that people are taking it seriously and giving it weight.

It has that weird dichotomy there.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think the reason [00:21:00] it feels disconnected, and they very briefly just brushed over it very quickly, they mentioned some other famous gentleman drivers that are probably closer to our age group that we would recognize. People like Steve McQueen, Paul Newman. Patrick Dempsey and our favorite British baker, Paul Hollywood, those are names we can identify with.

And when you put a celebrity in a car, are they really doing it for ego? They’re already a celebrity. Everybody knows who they are. So somebody like Paul Hollywood, who actually talked about it in. His big continental road trip. He says, I wanted to go drive for Aston and he did. And he actually drove the same car, same team that Paul Dallolana was driving.

And I don’t know if they overlapped, but it was basically, if you look at the pictures, it’s the same car. That being said, I look at those guys and go, you know. They’re celebrities and I already look up to them. I want to be like Paul Newman. I want to be like Steve McQueen. But I don’t necessarily know I want to be like these guys, right?

They [00:22:00] didn’t inspire me in that same way.

Crew Chief Brad: Why do you feel you want to be more like Paul Newman or Steve McQueen than these other guys who are just as successful, if not more successful, even though they’re not as famous?

Crew Chief Eric: The image of those celebrities. We know Paul Newman gave back, he did a lot of other things for community and people and whatnot.

Paul Hollywood is supposed to be a really nice guy, despite the way he portrays himself on TV, sometimes Patrick Dempsey, you know, he quit acting to pursue racing and now he owns a team, all that kind of stuff, and even Steve McQueen, he was rough around the edges, but he was also a racer, he was passionate.

They’re, they’re different people, maybe because they’re more grounded in the motorsport for me, that says something to me. And I look up to them and go, man, I wish I could be rich and famous. And go drive race cars, but it’s not the same. I look at these four guys and I single out, let’s say Patron and the vaping thing, and I’m like, well, you’re capitalizing on people’s habits and vices, [00:23:00] and then you get to go play.

Aren’t you special and to me? I don’t know. It was just weird. Anybody else feel like that?

Crew Chief Brad: No

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks, you’re

Crew Chief Brad: on an island eric,

Crew Chief Eric: I guess I I really am I really am

Crew Chief Brad: for me I don’t see any difference between these four gentlemen Or the guy from L’Oreal or the, the four celebrities that you mentioned, they were all successful.

They all had a lot of money and then they all decided to start a hobby of racing.

Sam Harrington: Yeah. That’s all it boils down to, right? You get to a point in life where you have the resources to do this thing that you want to do. And now you can do it. So, that’s awesome. That’s great. I’m happy for them. I can do the same thing myself at a much, much smaller scale.

And it’s great and it’s fun. If I had more resources, I would do that too. I’d be like, alright, I guess I’ll just go get an F3 car and see what that’s like. I’ll just go start a race team. Let’s do it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, why not? If you can afford it, go for it. Send it.

Crew Chief Eric: So when I asked about whether or not they detracted [00:24:00] from the sport.

There was that, there’s always that fear there. They talked about letting the team down. They really painted that picture of, I’m part of the team, but I don’t want to be, you know, a boat anchor. I want us all to be successful. Great. That’s very altruistic. However, I don’t know if you guys noticed or not, and this goes back to Ricardo, and I’m not trying to single him out, but they spent a lot of time with him because he is the centerpiece of the film when you kind of peel back everybody else because of bringing WEC to Mexico City and all that kind of stuff.

I don’t know if you guys noticed or not, but they threw up some other subtitle cards in there where it’s like, Gentleman Driver will travel the world to compete in 8 to 10 races per year, spending up to 70 days out of the office. Like, okay, like that’s supposed to say something to me, right? But they showed that scene where they’re walking the course at Coda.

I kind of sat back, and I’m like, Okay. And there was this whole other thing where they threw up another slide and it said a gentleman driver must learn and be mentored by his younger and more experienced professional teammates. And I’m like, what? I’m like, how [00:25:00] come this guy doesn’t have a coach? How come he’s not getting right seat time?

How come we’re talking about a track walk? And I understand the importance of a track walk, but shouldn’t we talk? About this guy’s training and how he is contributing to the team. He is going out of his way to spend extra cycles to, to be part of the team. Or is it just, look, I can fly in and drive my LMP two car, and then I can fly out and go about my business.

And they showed that with Paul Dalla Lana, where they had to coax him. Into staying after the race was over to get his trophy and I was like,

Executive Producer Tania: ah, you know, I don’t think the movie did a very good job of actually explaining all the details, if you will, around the gentleman driver, like I still, because I honestly hadn’t really.

known about it till seeing this movie. I didn’t know it was a thing. And then I was curious, like, oh, how many gentlemen drivers per team are there? And you know, are there levels and rankings? Like, is this guy competing against himself? How many people is he competing against? Because they just highlighted all the highlights these [00:26:00] guys were having.

Oh, they won or Oh, I guess they showed low lights. So they crashed, but it was, there was nothing about, Oh, but he’s competing him out against this other gentleman driver who is so and so and it works this way and it works that way. And they do get training or they don’t get training. They showed the one guy doing his thing on his simulator.

And I said, okay, good on him. He’s practicing, but I just still don’t have an understanding of how the whole thing works other than you write a really big check and you get to sit in the seat.

Erin Kelly: Yeah, I agree with Tanya. The track walk was really confusing for me because it read exactly as Eric said. I was like, he just flew in his, in his, Never, like, looked at this track before and doesn’t understand how to drive it?

Is that what’s happening here? It was very confusing.

Crew Chief Brad: They obviously don’t spend hours watching YouTube videos of other people on track like we do.

Executive Producer Tania: Clearly. Because I would like to hear how competitive are these guys really versus You know, the, the more pro amateurs, if you will, [00:27:00] the, the people really working through their ranks that have been doing this since, you know, they were go karting at five years old or something like that.

I didn’t get any sense of how this all really works other than you got money. So you go and okay, great.

Sam Harrington: I mean, that’s essentially what it is. It’s. Almost like a straight up arrive and drive and obviously a gentleman driver is going to be nowhere near as quick or competitive as a professional because a professional that’s their job.

It’s what they do and they’re really good at it. Which is why people pay them to do it.

Crew Chief Brad: I,

Sam Harrington: I agree they didn’t do a good job kind of showing the behind the scenes and what kind of training goes in. They just quickly, you know, he shows up to CODA and is like, okay, track walk with Tipo Durrani, professional driver, you know, just showing him lines.

I think that was just kind of, they threw it in there for fluff. There’s, you know, there’s a lot more going on behind that with the engineers and the data sessions, which they glossed over real quick. I mean, there’s more to it than that. They’re not just showing up and getting in and [00:28:00] it could be a track they’ve never been to, which is fine.

Everybody’s going to go to a new track at some point, right? So I just think they didn’t do a good job there. But

Crew Chief Eric: to your, to your point with the setup and the race engineer, they’re not going to listen to these guys. They’re going to listen to Felipe. They’re going to listen to Bruno. They’re going to listen to all these other guys because they’re the professionals at the end of the day.

They’re going to say, Hey, the car’s loose. The car’s doing this and they did touch on that a little bit where the pro would pull them aside like, uh, yeah, where overbeck would pull them aside and say, Hey, the car’s doing this. You’re just going to have to drive through it. You’re just going to have to deal with it.

This is the way we set it up. And so to your point, I don’t even know that it’s in a drive, arrive and drive. It’s a pay to play. So do they really have any input? Are they really helping the team or are they just dragging those teams down? And so that was what left me sitting there going, I don’t know. And this is where I draw the difference between the other gentlemen drivers.

We talked about where Paul Newman is an example. He raced a lot and so did [00:29:00] Steve McQueen. They were racers, although they were celebrities. So it’s a little bit different. They weren’t just, Oh, you know, I’m Bruce Wayne by day. And by night I’m Batman. it, you know, and fly in, do their thing and fly out. They were dedicated to the craft.

They were dedicated to the sport and they knew how to drive and they knew about the mechanics of it. Now, I’m not saying that that’s for everybody, but I just felt that it still painted this in the completely wrong light. And I don’t think they gave enough credit to the teammates. We spent more time with the publicist.

And the marketing guy than we did with Bruno Senna and the other teammate. And I looked up Bruno Senna because I was a little bit confused, you know, knowing the last name, it’s a famous last name, right? Being related to Ayrton. He was born in 83. He’s a professional racing driver. He currently races for rebellion.

He’s the nephew of Ayrton Senna. His mother is Ayrton’s older sister, Vivianne. And he’s also the first driver. To win every WEC class. [00:30:00] So that guy has a lot to say. I don’t think he spoke a single word in the whole movie. And in that respect, I felt like it took away from the, the, the bigness. You know, they, as they set up the film, how, how amazing, you know, WEC is.

And then we never really got to hear anything about it.

Sam Harrington: Oh, gentleman driver, not professional driver. Yeah, Senna,

Crew Chief Brad: Senna’s not a gentleman driver.

Sam Harrington: So do you guys separate? Gentlemen, drivers from drivers who bring sponsorship backing with them who otherwise wouldn’t have a seat, wouldn’t have a ride, but they bring sponsorship to the team that allows them to get that seat.

They’re not being picked because of their skills and their merit on the track. They’re being picked because they’re bringing sponsorship. They’re not writing their own check from their own personal bank account. This Venezuelan oil company or whatever is their backing is writing that check.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean,

Sam Harrington: feel about that because there are a lot of female drivers that do bring their own sponsorship.

And as soon as [00:31:00] that sponsorship runs out, same thing, they’re gone, too. They’re just not writing their own checks. So if they don’t bring their own sponsorship, they’re gone.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think the clarifying question there, Sam, is what is the aspiration of that person? Are they attempting to become a professional driver?

And so therefore they’ve harvested this sponsorship in order to reach that ultimate goal. And maybe they never get there and maybe they do. Or are you saying they’re on the same level as these gentlemen drivers where it’s just, I’ve yielded enough cash that I can come in, buy my seat. Win Le Mans and go home.

Which is it? I would argue that the people that are

Sam Harrington: bringing sponsorship are probably the more talented drivers. They’re usually, technically, professionals because their sponsorship is paying them. Without that sponsorship, it’s not like they’re just getting picked up off the street to get a ride. Like, you gotta bring money to the table, whether you’re writing the check.

Or you’ve got backing to

Crew Chief Eric: do it. So the case in point, right. If you watched uppity, that was [00:32:00] exactly the scenario that Willie T ribs went through, he got backing from Cosby, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, to, to get his seat and all that stuff, to get a car, to get going. And I understand that, but his goal.

Was to, you know, and he already was a professional racer in Trans Am, et cetera, et cetera. And he wanted to work his way up. He wanted to win the Indy 500. He is someone you can look up to as a mentor, but these guys are not them. I want to fly in. I want to win Le Mans and I want to take my trophy and go home to your point of very earlier on in this podcast where you said professional drivers and gentlemen, drivers are not the same thing.

If we classify these sponsored drivers, as you’re saying into the professional category. Then it pretty much answers itself.

Executive Producer Tania: The Gentleman Drivers, it’s their hobby. They have a lot of money and they want to go do this cool thing. I mean, that’s how I am perceiving it. Until convinced otherwise. Because they’re, they’re already years into their life.

The reality, they’re not going [00:33:00] to suddenly be the next Ayrton Senna or Lewis Hamilton in their particular series. They’re doing this for fun because probably partially they’re bored and it’s something that they’ve always wanted to do and they’ve got some talent. They’re not completely talentless because I mean, there’s a lot of people in the world that they have tremendous talents and they never actually get to pursue them or use them and no one sees them.

It doesn’t mean they’re not talented, but I mean, honestly, you don’t. It’s a hobby for them. I don’t think it’s on the same level as somebody who’s, who’s, who’s end goal, who’s aspiration, as you said, is to actually go be the top in their sport because this is their job. This is what’s bringing them money.

They’re not, it’s not a side thing.

Crew Chief Eric: The point is we lost something in translation here. We lost the difficulty in the driving itself. These guys can’t communicate it. They just show up. They do their thing for an hour and a half and they go home or whatever, you know, their stint is. [00:34:00] So again, does it take away from the sport?

Does it really paint the sport in the right light?

Erin Kelly: Yeah. And based on the conversation about money earlier, I would ask, would the money still come in from rich fans through things like team ownership and sponsorships and, and other ways to be involved? If actually being able to drive the car didn’t exist, I would dare say that yes, that not maybe in the same quantities, but enough to keep the sport going.

Crew Chief Brad: Maybe if the sport was more profitable to the teams, but it’s, it’s a money pit. I mean, you listen to any professional, like any team owner or anybody, the gentleman drivers just joking. They mean, they even said it. How do you make a small fortune at a racing? You start with a large fortune. You start with a billion, you end up with a million.

I don’t, I don’t think this it’s not like the NFL where teams are making money, hand over fist on merchandise and in paraphernalia and all, and all that stuff and fans are rabid for it. Then the motor sports community, I think it’s a [00:35:00] very small niche group of fans. It’s not. It’s not a moneymaker.

Sam Harrington: If I’ve got 10 million dollars sitting around, I’m not just gonna give it to a race team out of the goodness of my heart and be like, here guys, have some sponsorship money.

I’m gonna be like, here guys, make room. I’m hopping in.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, but how much did Ed Brown make off of Patron cars running around and sponsoring the, the lounges and the, and the happy hours and all that kind of stuff? So the return on investment was probably pretty good. So I don’t know that the argument really holds water.

I’m feeling what Aaron’s saying here.

Sam Harrington: I don’t know because once Bacardi took over, they pulled the plug on that pretty instantaneously. Their accountants probably went over the books and were like, Hmm, we’re spending how much on racing?

Crew Chief Eric: That drives right to the point. If you weren’t making money, why do it?

So if racing is a loss leader, why does racing continue? And I’m not advocating for racing to go away, but at the end of the day, somewhere along the line, and you can make this argument [00:36:00] about Bernie Ecclestone, somebody’s making money. If not, it wouldn’t happen. So I don’t think WEC is a loss leader or they would have shut it down.

That being said, there’s another big weird part of this movie that I’m sure you all caught on, which was the psychologist. And I see you all smiling.

Erin Kelly: It was from Austin.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, Dr. Art Markman. And he spent a lot of time talking about The, the risk and the entrepreneurs and how difficult it is for them and the challenges and all.

And he implied a lot of different things. There were two things I was really confused about. The first one has to do with risk. He made it seem like only entrepreneurs, only people that are anointed with that gift are able to take and manage risk in life.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, he said it very, in an interesting way at some point, something to the, I don’t remember how exactly he worded it, but it was.

To the effect of because these guys had learned all that they needed to learn, it’s not that there’s not risk is that they learned [00:37:00] the risk away. And I’m like, wow, that is completely inaccurate. The risk is still inherently there. And these guys have not been doing it as long as the professionals. So they, so the real problem is they don’t know what they don’t know, and they don’t know the risk.

That they don’t know, if you will. So that it goes back to their ego that they’re gods and what they do on a daily basis. And so therefore that’s going to translate into anything that they. I don’t know that I agree with it.

Erin Kelly: I was amused by that, about how they, uh, you know, the psychologist said that they essentially reframe how risky they see something, and do that reframing by learning more about it.

And I think there is some semblance of truth to that. I think situations can seem risky that once you actually You know, document what’s going on with the situation. You can get to a point where it’s like, okay, it’s not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I’m more comfortable approaching [00:38:00] that situation down.

I agree with Tanya that they weren’t learning the risk weights. How much did they learn? They’re not a professional driver. They’re essentially have enough money that the risk doesn’t matter or that they don’t care about it. Because they’re doing it for different reasons that are not monetary

Crew Chief Eric: with that.

I mean, they showed Paul Dalla Lana putting that Aston in the wall, how many times it almost became comical. And then they never talked about the repercussions afterwards. Like, Oh, well, well, we, we bend it. Well, we’ll move on. There was another part of that, that really got under my skin that I didn’t understand.

And to your point, we’re talking about risk mitigation here. And then if you notice, he switched gears. And he went on this tangent about imposter syndrome. And I, again, I had to pause and I’ve only heard one other person in my life bring this up and I’m not going to call them out. And I was like really confused because now they’re trying to say that they have a self esteem or confidence problem where they’re putting on a face.

And if you really knew them, that they aren’t the way they come off as you see them in [00:39:00] real life. And I’m like, Excuse me?

Executive Producer Tania: I felt that they probably weren’t being portrayed how they really are in real life in this film. Because it goes back to what I said in the beginning, as I entered this, and maybe it’s wrong of me to have entered with a bias, of most billionaires, millionaires, are just egotistical tyrants, jerks is the nicest way to put it.

And they, they didn’t quite exude that during the interviews and during their conversations. They felt more like, you know, the everyday guy, you know, walk down and have a beer with or something. And I’m not sure that that’s, that’s entirely accurate. So there was a lot of what seemed like misportrayal and maybe I’m just being unfair.

I thought the

Crew Chief Brad: imposter syndrome was specifically speaking to them as gentlemen drivers coming into a sport with professional drivers and they’re the imposters pretending to be professional [00:40:00] drivers for the weekend or whatever professional drivers think of them as imposters. So they feel like they have to put in more work.

To overcome that imposter designation that that stereotype, because they’re buying their way in and they haven’t earned it.

Executive Producer Tania: The imposter syndrome definition, psychology is exactly the that person, so it would be the gentleman drivers because they’re not truly the person of that sport, right? Fosters in it.

They feel inadequacy because they haven’t been through everything.

Crew Chief Eric: Right, but isn’t that a contradiction to everything we know about these entrepreneurs?

Erin Kelly: Yeah, it feels contradictory to the previous discussion on risk. They essentially bought down their risk because they learned their way out of it and and then are convincing themselves that it’s not risky.

That doesn’t necessarily align with the fact that they feel as an imposter to be able to perform in that realm. So I think yeah, They like presented two [00:41:00] psychological pillars that don’t necessarily, um, align with each other inside. You know, the gentleman driver’s head,

John Richter: I think you get a lot of their true nature that they’re really kind of shows you like pulls back the curtain on everything at that like round table.

They do. They kept going back to because there are times where they started like, you know, talking like, would you have done all of this again? Or would you become like a pro driver or something? Or would you rather have the money you’ve made in your business? And all of them just kind of like chuckled to themselves and like money, like.

I don’t know. I think that was like really revealing on who they were personally. Imposter wise, like I could see like you come to something that’s new and you definitely bought yourself on the team. You definitely feel inadequate, which you could just get rid of by getting more experience.

Crew Chief Eric: But we’re all told to be confident in ourselves.

We’re all champions. We’re all winners. We’re supposed to have, you know, that gusto inside. And these guys have that. Entrepreneurs exemplify. That particular characteristic to show them as vulnerable and whatever, to [00:42:00] me, didn’t make a whole lot of sense. And so with that boost of esteem, with that boost of just boldness that these people are supposed to have as entrepreneurs, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to say, fake it till you make it?

John Richter: Yeah, definitely. I mean, that’s how you do it as an entrepreneur to begin with anyway. I mean, I guess it could be imposter if you think of it in the way I do. It’s like you have the same skills, you feel like you can’t perform at the same level for some actual psychological reason, like it’s just like a block.

I have that professionally every once in a while, and I think it could apply here.

Crew Chief Eric: Yet another contradiction in the film. They’re trying to portray these fragile eggs, and it’s like, you know, you have to. I don’t know, coddle them or baby them. I don’t know what the term is right now, but it just, to me, it just, as, as we progress through the film at first, I was like, Oh, this is going to be really neat.

I’m going to learn something. And then I kind of got further and further disillusioned and disenfranchised with the film. [00:43:00] And then the biggest problem arised as we got to the end and to your point about them sitting around the table. I also noticed how. Like Ed would kind of bite at some of the other ones or he would just cut them off and I’m like, oh, that’s interesting, right?

So there’s a little power play there alphas, you know, four or five alphas in the room together. No big deal I don’t know why it took 88 minutes to dawn on me There’s not a single female in the entire film other than Paul Della Lana’s wife Mic drop.

John Richter: To extend on that, I said at one point, they were talking amongst themselves, I was just like, la la la, four powerful rich white men doing their own thing.

Erin Kelly: Oh, that came to my head at the very beginning. And I was like, it was maybe Ricardo. 88 minutes to see that.

John Richter: Ricardo is, I guess, is the one, the one man out, and he was kind of definitely I felt overpowered by the rest of them in that little round table. He’s like, I’m actually like trying to do things. You guys are just bitching about your eco.

Like, I don’t know.

Sam Harrington: Yeah, I agree on that. But also that’s unfortunately the demographics of racing as [00:44:00] well.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it though? There’s plenty of diversity out there with deep pockets. I’m just going to phrase it that way. There’s plenty of very rich and powerful women out there. Why aren’t they signing up to be gentle lady drivers?

They have

Sam Harrington: those. They,

Crew Chief Eric: they run another

Sam Harrington: series, like Super Trofeo,

Crew Chief Eric: Ferrari Challenge. Why can’t they run WEC?

Sam Harrington: They don’t have enough money,

Crew Chief Eric: maybe. Oprah’s got plenty of money, bro.

Crew Chief Brad: Maybe Super Trofeo and Ferrari Challenge.

Sam Harrington: So you gotta, you gotta have, you gotta tick all the boxes. You gotta like racing. You got to want to race and you got to have a lot of money.

I mean, that eliminates me from being a gentleman driver and

John Richter: be able to deal with culture,

Erin Kelly: right? I think the thing missing from this conversation is that, yes, those might be the demographics of racing more generally, but that inherently might be one of the reasons you don’t see it being the only person in the room that is different in a specific way.

Can be challenging, and can be culturally [00:45:00] shocking. So, I mean, I think John pointed out that that was kind of evident just amongst the, you know, four or five men at that round table. One man stood out, and I noticed early on that he wasn’t talking very often at that table. And that could have been for a variety of reasons, maybe he’s more introverted.

They’re, you know, they were all in this documentary together, they were all, all their stories were being told. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re talking about Michael Gauch from Molecule Labs. They kind of wrapped him up at the end like,

Erin Kelly: uh, yeah, here’s this thing. No, I was talking about Ricardo.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, gotcha.

Erin Kelly: As soon as they told me that guy made vaping liquid, I wrote him off as the killer of numerous innocent children.

Crew Chief Brad: He’s probably broke now too.

Erin Kelly: I was also wondering, I was like, when is this date? Definitely before 2019.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, and that’s just it, right? So we’re catching this thing two years later, and even when it came out on Netflix, the material that was provided was already two to three years old. So it’s really out of date.

I understand what they were trying to do, but again, diversity [00:46:00] aside, I thought it was unfair to women.

Erin Kelly: Yeah, and If I could bring up a point of like related to the diversity issue, I mean, it’s called gentleman driver, right? Do they call a woman who’s in that position, a lady driver, or do they call her a gentleman driver?

And I think it also gets at a deeper point of language, right? I go back and forth about, well, do the words we use really matter all that much? Like, why should we care? But if you think about the origin of the word gentlemen and how gentlemen is like thought of in. societal context, the way they’re referring to it is like a rich white person who owns land, right?

And that, that they’re gonna come down and race in this, in this race and, you know, get a seat in this car. And so that has many more connotations than just that they’re a, a man. It has a connotation that they are white, rich, and also a man. And so I think the name itself has many implications. that the movie just hit home again and again and again.

Like every, every part of that movie [00:47:00] confirmed what I thought A Gentleman’s Driver would be in terms of demographics throughout the entire 88 minutes.

Crew Chief Eric: If I’m a casual watcher and I see this, maybe I just got done watching Formula One Drive to Survive, and this comes up on my recommendation list, and I watch this, and I’m not a motorsport head, or it just comes across my recommendations, I watch it.

Does it really paint motorsport in the, in a good light?

Sam Harrington: Uh, I think it shows the realities of motorsport, being that the resources that are required to have the sport exist. I think it brings that to the surface that a lot of people probably don’t realize how expensive this is and what it takes for a team to get funding and run.

I think that’s really what it highlights.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I agree with that. It just reconfirms what I think the majority of people already know is that it’s a very expensive. Profession, sport, hobby, whatever you want to label it as, it takes money to go do it, even whether you’re the Lewis [00:48:00] Hamilton level, or you’re a junior level, or you’re even if you’re just going out for a track day on a weekend, it’s expensive.

It’s not it’s not cheap. There’s less expensive sports to go do, you know, basketball doesn’t cost very much and you can get a group of friends and go on a court for free, you know, it’s expensive to go racing. And I think it reconfirmed that in the movie. And I think. You know, in the first five minutes, they pushed me away my interest when they said that it’s, it’s, it’s a complete meritocracy.

Well, no, it’s not. Yes, once you’re inside it and you’re competing against your peers, the better driver with more skill is going to be rewarded. But it takes money to enter that meritocracy. And they made it sound like, oh, no, you, you can be whoever and have the talent and suddenly be number one. I don’t personally feel that that’s how it works.

Sam Harrington: I mean, I agree with you, but I didn’t get the aspect of you can get in and be number one. I saw it more as you can get in and you’re in. That was it. It wasn’t [00:49:00] like, okay, well, I’m in now. Now I’m going to compete and be the best. Gentleman drivers get in and they’re going to do their best. But they’re not going to be the best,

Crew Chief Eric: right?

But he gets to go home with a trophy that says LeMans winner. He won LeMans. Did he? I’m wrong. I guarantee you, Bruno Senna did more work, more laps, and put more effort in than Ricardo did at the end of the day. And Bruno Senna wouldn’t exist without Ricardo’s checkbook. But hey, that’s not necessarily true because Ricardo, because Ricardo’s not racing anymore.

And Senna still is.

Sam Harrington: Yeah, but the other guy could race whenever he wants, too. I mean, true. I’m just saying it’s a symbiotic relationship, right? The professionals need the money for the team to operate. These guys bring the money. I mean, that’s all it is. It’s a completely symbiotic relationship. They need each other.

Executive Producer Tania: It would’ve been nice if the movie maybe explained that more, or kind of Dived into that, which it didn’t do [00:50:00] at all because I still really don’t have an understanding of how this whole thing works. Like, cause clearly they, these, these guys are, are on a team within their, their car class. It’s not just them doing lap after lap and winning it, um, but you didn’t get to hear about how that works and the relationships and who really is contributing.

What are these guys really doing? It was, I was waiting for it and it got glossed over.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m with you. I was waiting for a team manager to step up and say, this is how we run the team. This is why we do it this way. Let me break it down for you. Or something like that. It just was never there.

Sam Harrington: Yeah, they didn’t have the Howden like in Truth in 24, right?

They didn’t have those people. To step in and do this and I mean they were constrained by how long this was and they were trying to follow four different people and four different teams and they just kind of bounced around and glossed over a lot of things that probably would have been really interesting that explained how this worked and it came across kind of [00:51:00] half assed.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean I’ll make the argument that we didn’t need to watch Ed Brown sipping tequila. We could have filled that time with an explanation of what the heck we were watching. I couldn’t care to less.

Sam Harrington: Delicious.

Crew Chief Eric: It is. It is. Granted. But I couldn’t care to less. I don’t want to watch, again, a room full of white guys drinking liquor.

It had no point to the movie whatsoever. To the message that they were trying to convey.

Sam Harrington: Did you scope out the watches they were wearing? Man, pretty sweet.

John Richter: Maybe that was part of the deal of the documentary. They wanted coverage of their products, their companies, their life success.

Crew Chief Brad: Who was the executive producer for the documentary?

Which one of the, the billionaires was the executive producer?

Executive Producer Tania: I didn’t watch that far enough to the credits.

Crew Chief Eric: Guaranteed there, one of them was. I have to go look it up though. Tony Calderon? Wasn’t that the uh, producer guy? The guy sitting in the middle of the table? The

Crew Chief Brad: manager.

Crew Chief Eric: So he’s their manager, so yeah.

So he’s gotta fluff ’em up and all that stuff. So yeah, you’re

Crew Chief Brad: mani manicure. [00:52:00]

Crew Chief Eric: So I guess at the end of the day, we understand it takes money to go racing. It’s considered a rich man sport. It always has been like a lot of other things, like if you wanna be good at golf and you boats and airplanes and, and even shooting, right?

They’re all expensive. All hobbies are expensive at the end of the day. But what I didn’t understand, and what I’m gonna leave you guys with is would you share this? Movie. Movie with someone else to say, this is what racing is like. And the second part of that question is, did it leave you in any way inspired both in the business world and in the racing world, or could you have cared less altogether?

John Richter: I think I cared more about it from a business and leadership perspective than I did about the racing. Side of it. It was more fascinating to me how they ran their businesses and were successful and then also handled racing at the same time Well, I wouldn’t actually recommend it as a view into racing to anyone because like especially at the end It was just it was basically like a crazy dramatic Movie ending so [00:53:00] they’re just going for the effect and not a message which I was kind of like pretty bummed about But also entertained by, so it’s kind of conflicting emotions there, but now I’d say come out to a track day.

We’ll show you how it’s really done.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, to be very honest, I lost interest in the movie very early and I only kept watching it because of this podcast.

So no, I don’t think I would recommend it to anybody. I don’t think it did a good enough job of explaining anything. You could argue there was potential that had been done differently, but as it stands. I don’t think it really explains much about racing and I wasn’t inspired by it. I mean, it must be nice to have that much money.

Crew Chief Brad: I think it would have been better if it was less about entering the mind of the entrepreneur and more about, this is what it takes to keep WEC and IMSA running. I wouldn’t share this with anybody just because I was bored.

Erin Kelly: Yeah, I, I agree with. Everything that’s been said so far, I think, uh, you know, I wouldn’t recommend it as a view into racing.

I [00:54:00] think it was a view into the lives of these four men with a slight, strange, uh, contradictory commentary on what a gentleman driver actually is. I found tidbits here and there of their discussion on leadership and entrepreneurship interesting. I almost felt like it was forced in some ways, like. The one guy who was talking about, you know, I treat my employees with respect and the people that I work with with respect.

And I’m like, yes, that’s what a true leader actually does. Great. But I kind of feel like you’re just saying that’s, you know, like you can asshole on TV. Yeah. So I thought it had some interesting leadership messages that felt very forced.

Sam Harrington: Yeah, I definitely would not recommend this to somebody who’s new to motorsport and wanted to learn more.

Far better ones out there that they can watch. Uh, some that we’ve already touched on on this podcast, you know, I think they did an okay job, but that’s from my perspective of knowing about gentlemen drivers and, you know, kind of how the sport operates. And what these guys do and come in and write these [00:55:00] checks and, you know, I used to be a hater on that stuff, but now I’m like, you know, if I had the resources, I would do it too.

I would be walking around like the Monopoly guy in the paddock or like Ted DiBiase or dressed like Apollo Creed, just being obnoxious, showing how much money I have and be like, Hey, I’m paying to be here. So what? I’m rich. Then why not? That’s what they’re doing. I

Crew Chief Eric: would do the same thing. So I, I can’t hate on them for it.

I thought there was just so many things wrong with it. By the time I got to the end, I was really excited at the beginning, like, Oh, this is going to be really cool. I really appreciate and enjoy WEC, Le Mans, IMSA, everything that goes with that. I was like, man, this is going to be a great little filler because we didn’t do Le Mans this year.

I’m going to watch the film. See where it goes. And then by the end, I was just like, you know what, if I was not a racer and was not invested in motorsport, I’d say the hell with this. Just make them all go away. And on that note, I think it’s time to end. All right, everybody, I thank you so much for joining us tonight.

It’s been an interesting [00:56:00] conversation. And I look forward to doing this again soon.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from GTM? Great, so do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it. But please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization. But we still need help to keep the momentum going.

So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and [00:57:00] donate to learn how you can help.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Gran Touring Motorsports
  • 00:26 Overview of ‘The Gentleman Driver’ Documentary
  • 00:58 Defining the Gentleman Driver
  • 01:24 Panel Discussion: Initial Reactions
  • 01:45 Deep Dive into the Four Tycoons
  • 03:22 Exploring the Business and Racing Balance
  • 04:55 Contradictions and Cinematic Choices
  • 06:22 The Role and Impact of Gentleman Drivers
  • 07:36 Comparisons with Other Racing Documentaries
  • 10:05 Financial Aspects and Sponsorships
  • 20:58 Celebrity Gentleman Drivers
  • 25:09 Training and Competitiveness
  • 29:13 Critique of Driver Representation
  • 30:25 The Role of Sponsorship in Racing
  • 31:32 Professional vs. Gentleman Drivers
  • 36:08 Psychological Insights and Risk
  • 43:17 Diversity and Representation in Racing
  • 52:17 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Learn More

A Documentary Full of Contradictions

Beyond the racing analysis, the documentary introduces a psychologist who discusses risk-taking in entrepreneurship. The premise? That these individuals approach racing the same way they manage business – by mitigating risk through calculated learning.

Yet another contradiction emerges: imposter syndrome. The film suggests that gentleman drivers feel out of place, doubting their legitimacy among professionals. But how does this align with the aggressive confidence typically associated with self-made entrepreneurs?

The Missing Voices in the Story

Perhaps the most glaring omission was diversity. Aside from a brief mention of past celebrity gentleman drivers like Paul Newman, Patrick Dempsey, and Steve McQueen, the film focused exclusively on four wealthy men, never exploring female or minority drivers in the same space.

This oversight led us to question whether the documentary truly captured the essence of endurance racing, or if it was merely a showcase of privilege in motorsport.

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Final Verdict

While The Gentleman Driver provides an inside look at the business-driven nature of modern racing, it fails to offer technical depth or a balanced portrayal of motorsport dynamics.

For motorsport purists and grassroots racers, the film might reinforce frustrations over how financial backing often outweighs driving talent. For industry insiders, it highlights the economic realities that sustain endurance racing.

Would we recommend this film to someone interested in learning about motorsport? Probably not. Would it spark debate on how racing should evolve? Absolutely.

[EDITORS NOTE 2024]: Tune in for “The Gentleman Driver, Part 2” as we rejoin this story with the documentary’s producer Toni Calderon for a in-depth look at how the film was made, and his reactions to our critiques.


This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

WSIB: Starter Track Cars

Welcome back to another raucous roundtable from the Break/Fix crew, where spirited debates and questionable decisions reign supreme. This time, Eric and I – along with special guest Mike Crutchfield – tackle one of the most enduring questions in the motorsports community: “What should I buy as my first track car?” by revisiting my previous article I wanna go fast, things I wish I knew as a noobthis episode dives deep into the pros, cons, and quirks of some of the most popular starter track platforms.

In this weeks episode of Break/Fix, we revisit “the one that started it all” … the original What Should I Buy? – and we attempt to answer the age old question specifically regarding Starter Cars!

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

For many driving enthusiasts, the hunt for a first track car is filled with excitement, endless debate, and a long checklist of considerations. Should you go rear-wheel drive or front-wheel drive? Build versus buy? What makes a car forgiving yet rewarding? To answer these questions, the experts at GTM sat down for a spirited discussion, evaluating a range of options based on performance, reliability, and affordability.

Why Choosing the Right Track Car Matters

Within the GTM community, the recurring question of “Which car should I buy?” never truly disappears. Whether it’s a first-time collector searching for a conversation-starter at cars and coffee or someone transitioning into serious track days, the choice often depends on personal preferences, budget, and long-term goals. To help simplify the process, GTM’s panel compiled a list of top recommendations.

Criteria for a Great First Track Car

Before diving into the specific cars, GTM members outlined key criteria:

  • Balance & Handling: A car should be predictable yet engaging. It needs to teach, not correct, mistakes.
  • Aftermarket Support: A strong supply of replacement and performance parts is essential.
  • Reliability: While some cars may be cheap to buy, maintenance costs can add up quickly.
  • Affordability: Many first-time buyers need to be mindful of initial costs and ongoing expenses.
  • Drive Configuration: While the debate between rear-wheel drive and front-wheel drive continues, both have their merits.

Top Tips Before You Buy

Before diving into the list, the panel shares some hard-earned wisdom:

  • “Never drive your heroes.”— Matt Y
  • “Look around the paddock and start with what you see.” — Brad
  • “If you’re not okay with me putting a boot in your door, you’ve picked the wrong car.” — Matt Y
  • “Build vs. Buy? Buy.” — Sam

Now, onto the contenders…

GTM’s list of recommended first track cars spans several marques, catering to diverse driving styles and mechanical abilities. Choosing your first track car is part science, part emotion, and part tribal allegiance. Whether you go German, Japanese, or American, the key is to buy smart, learn fast, and enjoy the ride. Here are the panel’s top picks.

🏁 BMW E36: The Gateway Drug

  • Rear-wheel drive, manual transmission, and balanced handling make the E36 a track staple.
  • Affordable entry point, but beware: 30-year-old German engineering means you’ll be wrenching often.
  • Common issues include valve cover leaks, water pump failures, and cooling system quirks.

🏁 BMW E46: The Refined Evolution

  • Bigger, more powerful, and arguably better looking than the E36.
  • The M3 variant is coveted but pricey—consider the 330i for budget builds.
  • Known issues: rear subframe cracks and the infamous M tax.
  • If you’re serious about competition, buy a pre-built race car and save yourself the headache.

🏁 Volkswagen Mk4: The Front-Wheel Drive Underdog

  • Shared chassis across Beetle, Golf, Jetta, and Audi TT—tons of parts and knowledge available.
  • Best bang-for-buck: Jetta with a 1.8T or 24v VR6.
  • Front-wheel drive isn’t a dealbreaker—it’s “fun-wheel drive” if you know how to drive it.
  • Weak points: axles and wheel bearings. Upgrade to USRT drag axles and you’re golden.

🏁 MINI Cooper (R5x): Small, Twitchy, and Surprisingly Capable

  • BMW-owned MINIs offer quirky fun and tight handling.
  • Downsides: short wheelbase makes them twitchy, and engine bay access is a nightmare.
  • Known issues include motor mounts and seals, but once sorted, they’re reliable and cheap to run.
  • Just don’t buy Enkei wheels—they break. Ask us how we know.

🏁 Subaru BRZ / Toyota FRS: The Balanced Twins

  • Rear-wheel drive, manual, and well-balanced—perfect for learning.
  • Low on power, but high on fun. Modified versions (supercharged or turbo) are a blast.
  • Shared Subaru/Toyota engineering means decent reliability, but some fragility under pressure.
  • Newer models may include a turbo—worth watching.

🏁 Porsche 996: The Budget Exotic

  • Often overlooked, the 996 is the cheapest way into a 911.
  • Water-cooled and controversial among purists, but a solid performer.
  • IMS bearing failure is the Achilles heel—fix it or risk a $20K engine replacement.
  • Great support from PCA and aftermarket, but expect to pay the Porsche tax.

🏁 Ford Mustang (2014+): The American Muscle Choice

  • Independent rear suspension and multiple engine options.
  • The Coyote V8 is the star, but even the EcoBoost can be a track weapon with the right mods.
  • Downsides: weight and crowd-control jokes aside, they’re surprisingly nimble.
  • Excellent aftermarket and reliability – especially compared to the problematic Focus RS.

🏁 Mazda Miata – The Answer for Everyone

Often said to be the perfect beginner track car, the Mazda Miata combines lightweight design, rear-wheel drive, and affordability into an unbeatable package. With spec racing series ensuring massive aftermarket support, finding setup advice and replacement parts is never an issue. However, GTM experts warn that these cars require finesse—low power means carrying momentum through every corner is crucial.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions
  • 00:36 Debate on First Track Car
  • 01:20 Top Tips for Buying a Sports Car
  • 02:03 BMW E36: The Popular Choice
  • 05:43 BMW E46: The Big Brother
  • 08:50 Volkswagen Mark 4: The Budget Option
  • 14:55 MINI Coopers: The Quirky Contender
  • 18:11 BRZ and FRS: The Balanced Twins
  • 21:48 Porsche 996: The Starter Porsche
  • 25:01 Ford Mustang: The American Muscle
  • 30:46 High Belt Line and Visibility Issues
  • 31:37 Front-Wheel Drive Fun: Hondas and Acuras
  • 35:15 Corvette C5: The Driver’s Car
  • 39:10 The Iconic Mazda Miata
  • 43:59 Honorable Mentions: Porsche 944 and Nissan 350Z
  • 51:56 Final Thoughts and Recommendations
  • 56:24 Conclusion and Contact Information

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Our panel of break fix petrolheads are back for another rousing what should I buy debate. Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go. Where’d you get that? Or what the hell is wrong with you? At the next cars and coffee

What’s going on everybody this is brad aka the triple six I know this is the first time you’re hearing that from me But that’s my nickname around the track in the paddock and gtm with me as always is my co host eric. Hey His nickname of course is monty quattro We’re coming at you with another episode here.

This today’s topic is what cars should I buy? Within the GTM community, the debate of which car should I buy never seems to fully end, whether it be what should I buy as my first track car, my backup car, my new daily, or I just want something different. The fury of this debate within our group will quiet from time to time, but during the slower months, someone will bring it up and the arguments resurrect themselves in full glory.[00:01:00]

Crew Chief Eric: You’re right, Brad. And granted, this question can be asked for various types of driving situations. I think we’re not really interested in talking about minivans, SUVs, and anything like that. We really want to focus on spirited driving, autocross, and track days. We’re going to focus on those guys that aren’t looking and shopping for their second and third track car.

They’re really looking for their first one. But before we start, here’s some top tips from various members to keep in mind when you’re shopping for a new quote unquote sports car.

Crew Chief Brad: So remember, Matt Y comes at us and he says, Never drive your heroes.

Crew Chief Eric: And this one from our illustrious leader, Brad. Look around the paddock and start with what you see.

Crew Chief Brad: Again, another gem from Matt Y. If you’re not okay with me putting a boot in the door of your car, Then you’ve selected the wrong car

Crew Chief Eric: and pearls of wisdom from Sam build versus buy, buy. So rather than rehash everything we’ve talked about on Slack for the 11 millionth time, what we’ve done is put together a list of kind of our top 10 [00:02:00] cars from the plethora of options that exist out there.

We’re going to go through them and talk about why they’re great starter track cars in no particular order, but we’re going to go ahead and kick off with a fan favorite, BMW or the E 36. and the M threes. So Brad, what do you think about those?

Crew Chief Brad: You see a lot of them around the paddock. I mean, they’re, they’re very popular.

I think they’re, they’re very cheap to get into. They perform pretty well compared to other cars that are out there, I guess, for the money. I’d say they’re not rare, but their setup is something that’s hard to find these days. It’s hard to find a rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission, which some people will argue is the ideal, you know, setup or attract.

weapon. I think that’s what one of the things that makes them very popular. The aftermarket form is really good. They’re a mainstay at the track. I mean, they’re very well balanced cars. They don’t drive typically like a rear wheel drive car, like say an American car where they’re, they’ve got tons of oversteer or anything like [00:03:00] that.

They’re very balanced. They, they handle really predictably almost like a front wheel drive would think they’re, they’re solid cars. Having never owned one is easy for me to say. Uh, since you have actually owned one before, let’s get your input on it.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So I mentioned this in the, uh, the unaired pilot of our podcast, but you know, for me owning a BMW, it was like owning a boat, you know, the happiest days for me were the day I bought it.

second happiest day was the day I got rid of it. And everything in between was an absolute nightmare. Now, that being said, I bought the car because I was, I was working on something else and it was down at the time. And I was really curious. A lot of my friends have E36s and they love them. And they, they speak very highly of those cars and everything you said.

is 100 percent true. But what I came to realize though, to build a competitive E36, it becomes a very slippery slope. It’s 30 year old German technology, which brings its own issues to light and parts availability, although very strong. You have to replace [00:04:00] everything on those motors. They have valve cover issues, you know, water pump problems.

You got all these specialty parts that you need to throw in there to make the car reliable on the weekend. Now, that being said, they’re not expensive, but it starts to add up very quickly, much like a boat. I recommend them for people that want, like you said, a very well balanced car, something that’s very forgiving.

It’s not a car that’s going to correct your mistakes, but you’re going to learn a lot from, from the E36. It’s a very forgiving platform. So those are those are my notes on that car

Crew Chief Brad: and the best way to fix your bmw e36 is with volkswagen parts

Crew Chief Eric: 100 Yeah, so so that so there you go at prime example You bring that up and there’s a backstory behind this and really it deals with the way The radiators bleed and all this kind of stuff and the way it was engineered One of our members mike can go into Much more detailed than I can on the missteps in engineering there.

But yeah, I ended up fixing my car’s, let’s say, call it air pocket problems in the water cooling system, which those [00:05:00] cars are notorious for by using VW parts, right? Because I didn’t want to spend a jillion dollars on European, you know, S52 parts and all this kind of stuff. Because as we’ve always said, there’s a M tax, especially with the M versions of the BMWs where just because it’s got that badge.

It costs 10 times the amount for, for whatever reason, again, it’s a detractor, but you have to put it relative to a lot of other cars where let’s say the Porsche tax is much higher or the AMG tax is much higher than the M taxes, depending on, you know, the year.

Crew Chief Brad: So going down the line, there’s the E36. And when we’ve just been, uh, waxing idiotic about for the last five minutes, now let’s talk about his big brother.

The newer, more powerful, some say more balanced, uh, E46. Personally, this is my favorite of the BMWs. I just, I think for looks wise, they just look amazing. Uh, and I think they’re, they’re great cars. [00:06:00] Just, uh, to have on the street as well as the track, obviously they’re, they’re newer, uh, newer technology. So it may be a little bit better car creature comforts inside.

Not that you need that for a track car, but some people that want to do a dual purpose, they may care about things like that. They’re bigger. They’re more powerful than the E36. Um, they’ve got fantastic power and handling and the last of the purpose built M cars, the S54, I think is what it was. The motor that came in those, uh, 340 some horsepower.

straight six. Just great cars. And they’ve got huge aftermarket support as well.

Crew Chief Eric: They’ve

Crew Chief Brad: got some known failure points and known issues, especially with the M. Other than that, I think they’re great cars. Another problem with them, though, is they’re very hard to come by. Especially the M3s now they’re because they’re so desirable, especially the manual is very difficult to come by.

Now you can get the SMG transmission, which is, it’s very easy to actually, well, I don’t want to say easy. If you’re, if you’re a DIYer, it may be easy for you, but parts aren’t [00:07:00] that expensive to do the swap because you don’t need to change the trans. You just need to change some of the components with it.

But what are your thoughts on the E46?

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t want to focus too much on the M cars. Although most of my experiences with the E46 M cars, the base E46 is, and I want to, I want to put this in a year perspective. If I remember correctly, and I’m not a BMW expert, the E46 chassis ran from 2000 to 2005, 2006 ish timeframe versus the E36, which ran from 1993 to 1999.

So it’s a much newer car, much more modern technology. It’s larger than the. 36. It’s heavier, but that’s okay because it makes a lot more power, longer rev range, all that kind of stuff. I’ve been very fortunate to drive all sorts of different E46s. Bargain basement, a 330i is the way to go if you don’t want to pay the M tax.

Again, we mentioned that earlier. On the E46 platform. And as you’re saying, the E46 N3s are getting harder and harder to find. They are more expensive to operate, but they do reward you when you’ve done the proper maintenance and the [00:08:00] proper modifications to those cars. Big failure point is the rear subframe.

They tend to crack, especially under load. A lot of guys have either already welded them, even on the street. This is an issue they’ve taken care of it. So there’s going to be some buyer’s guides you’re going to have to look into to make sure that your E46 was properly maintained and a lot of the known issues were already taken care of.

This is where you get into that debate of build versus buy. And on the BMW side, if you’re looking to graduate very quickly into something more competitive, like time trials or road racing or club racing, an organization like SCCA, the Sports Car Club of America, or NASA, which is the National Autosport Association, then buy something already done and all the big dollar items have already been taken care of.

As well as the fact that the price point is really good because a race car is worth more in pieces than it is whole. And if you’re looking to pick up somebody’s last year car or car that you know They’re done with because they’re graduating out of you know, specky 46 or onto another class It’s a good time to pick up a car at [00:09:00] very good value Next up on the list is one of our personal favorites, the Mark 4 Volkswagen.

The Mark 4 Volkswagens spanned from 1998, if you start with the Beetle, all the way through 2006. The more common is 99 to 05. It’s very difficult to find 98s and 06s, but that’s going to be your Beetles, your Golfs, your Jettas, your Mark 1 TTs. They’re all built on the same chassis. fourth generation Volkswagen chassis.

It’s a very unique chassis. It was a ground up redo. Whereas the marks one, two, and three were all evolutions of the mark one chassis. And then oddly enough, after the mark for the five, six, seven and seven and a half and so on are also all the same chassis. So the mark four stands alone. A lot of people don’t like it because what VW tried to do was they got rid of the harshness of the early cars, made them a little bit more.

Autobahn cruiser cars, which meant adding a lot of bushings, adding a lot of other things to smooth those cars out. But you have four engine packages to choose from, but two that are [00:10:00] only really important at the track. That’s the one eight turbo 20 valve and the 2. 8 liter VR six. I recommend the 24 valve VR six for a million different reasons over the 12 valve.

But realistically, if you’re going to get in on a mark for a couple of recommendations. the Jetta because it’s so cheap and it actually handles the best of the bunch because it maintains the c shape between the a and c pillars which is actually what that chassis needs in order to handle correctly because it was designed to be used for the beetle which also has that arch shape to it and the suspension and the way the chassis flexes it doesn’t really work great.

on the golf. That one personally handles the worst of the bunch, even though we all have them. The Jetta is better balanced, but the price point is really low on those cars versus a GTI where you’ll pay three or four times as much for the same car that you can get in a four door sedan, which by the [00:11:00] way, only weighs about 50 pounds difference between the GTI and the Jetta.

So there’s a lot to consider there. You can get into a 1. 8 turbo Jetta. You don’t need to get a GLI or anything special, 20th anniversary editions, and all this kind of stuff. Go buy yourself a thousand dollar Jetta with 150 K on it and run it till it explodes. But do the timing belt first.

Crew Chief Brad: And we know somebody that’s done just that bought a car on Friday and raced it on Saturday.

Crew Chief Eric: A hundred percent. So Brad, what are some of the drawbacks being a mark four owner yourself for that platform?

Crew Chief Brad: Well, let’s see, I’ve owned, um, probably four Mark fours in at this point. And obviously for a track car, people say front wheel drive, not the way to go. I’m of the opinion that front wheel drive is fun wheel drive.

But a lot of the gripes about front wheel drive is it understeers like a pig. You can’t get them to turn. You can’t get them to rotate. Take it from me as someone who constantly is, you know, oversteering and drifting out of Oak tree at. And even, uh, facing the [00:12:00] wrong direction at pit race and turn one, those cars can definitely be made to oversteer and rotate.

There, there’s no problems about that at all. So that’s some of the gripes about, um, parts they’re old cars. Now, some of the distributors like ECS, there, there are still parts available, but sometimes they’re hard to get expeditiously. I don’t know. I, I don’t, I like them. There’s how many of them in the group, 10 in the group or something like that.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s, there’s eight dedicated Mark four track cars right now. So, I mean, that’s not our entire population, but there’s a, you

Crew Chief Brad: know, where

Crew Chief Eric: we’re own little tribe, uh, you know, the Mark four mafia, which we’ll probably have everybody together on a future episode to talk about. Sing kumbaya about how much we love those cars, but there are some drawbacks to them and front wheel drive isn’t for everybody, but I will say this.

Front wheel drive is very forgiving on track but to go fast in a front wheel drive takes a special type of driving style. It is not for the faint of heart. You can have a lot of fun in a rear wheel drive but you can, you can do some really, really interesting things that a rear wheel drive can’t [00:13:00] in a, in a well prepared front wheel drive car.

Crew Chief Brad: Before we move on though, there’s one other failure point IV Volkswagen that we would be remiss if we, we did not. Tell our listeners about, Oh, how many axles have I had to replace owning my car? How many axles have you had to replace? Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So that is, that is a huge drawback. And that is a drawback of almost every front wheel drive on track is the axles are the weak point.

Now, if you go to our website and search mark for build, we have a build sheet going from stage one to stage four to kind of help guide you through building those cars, learning from all of our mistakes and wasted money. But axles are a big one. I cannot recommend enough. The axles provided through USRT, which is usually sideways rally team out of New Jersey.

They’re built in part and licensed through the drive shaft shop in North Carolina, and they’re 500 horsepower drag axles. And once you upgrade to something like that, you don’t have any issues with those cars anymore. Reason being most of the cheap Chinese axles that you get from, you know, advanced auto, they’re designed to get you down the road at.[00:14:00]

65 miles an hour, 55, whatever your highway speed limit is. But when you’re racing, there’s a lot of pressure on the suspension, especially front wheel drive, because it’s doing the turning, the accelerating and the braking all on those front two wheels. Another failure point because of that is the wheel bearings, you know, stuff like that.

And so once the CV start to go, the wheel bearings start to go with them. It becomes a whole kind of cascading effect there. The reason those drag axles are so good. Just, you know, we can talk about this in another episode in more detail. Inner CVs are from a Porsche and the outer CVs are from an Audi Quattro.

So they’re really overbuilt for that car, which is fantastic.

Crew Chief Brad: And they can be rebuilt as we’ve, we’ve determined, we tore a boot in my car and I call a drive shaft shop and in, what was it a week, they had a replacement boot out to me so you can call them

and get, you damage something.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, exactly. So what’s next up on our list there, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, we’ve got the MINI, which, when I was looking for track cars, it was one of the ones on my [00:15:00] short list. Why I say short list, it was actually probably 100 cars deep. Because anything that, you know, had a motor and a steering wheel and was not a truck was on my list at one point.

The MINI Coopers, they’re, they’re like the GTIs. Some people think that they’re, they’re better. They’re, they’re better handling cars. The motors are, even though they’re a little smaller, they’re quite torque ier. They’re quirky little cars. Uh, they’re tons of fun to drive. It’s having the wheels all the way at the corners of the car.

I mean, I think that’s a, that’s a BMW specialty. I mean, even the three series that they, that’s how they just engineer the vehicles and it lends them to be, to give a very good driving experience. And let me specify, we’re talking about the newer BMW owned, uh, mini Coopers, not the old ones, not the rally champs that are impossible to find in the U S.

Um that I would have to wear his shoes because I don’t fit in them now We’re talking about the newer more refined bmw owned mini coopers. What are some of the drawbacks for them though?

Crew Chief Eric: So we have a build sheet for the r5x platform minis I believe i’m not a mini expert, [00:16:00] but we do have some mini experts in the club some of the drawbacks Having instructed them and having driven a few of them on track, mostly the supercharged minis versus the, the later turbocharged ones.

The short wheel base makes them feel really, really twitchy and really unsettled versus a longer wheel base car like a Mark four or something, like a, a Focus St or, or a Fiesta or something like that. The mini’s just so short that you just never feel settled down. And actually that’s a common theme I’ve had with.

Other BMWs, there’s something about that extremity, that the suspension geometry, that they just never feel like they’re planted. Like you would get with, you know, let’s say if you’ve ever driven an Audi Quattro, where it feels like it’s just digging itself into the earth. BMW engineering makes them overly complex.

And they’re also prone to, you know, the seven plagues as we’ve seen through one of our members. I mean, they’ve caught on fire. At the end of the day, there’s not a lot of space. To work under the hood on a mini [00:17:00] and being a front wheel drive. It’s already compact to maximize the people space But working on a mini is just exceptionally challenging and much like the beetles You you just kind of throw your hands up and go service position equal motor out, right?

Because that’s the only way you have any Space, but they are cheap. They do share some components that you can borrow. Let’s say from a Miata, like wheels and tires and things like that.

Crew Chief Brad: Just, just don’t buy the Enkeis cause they break.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So we’ve experienced that as well. Operating a mini, if you, as long as you take care of some of the issues, I’ve heard there’s some seals that need to be taken care of, things like that, that are on the build list that, uh, Steve and Spencer have put together for us.

Like every car, once it’s all set up, you really don’t have to worry about it much. It’s just down to breaks and. Tires and they’ll pretty much last you an entire season and the price point on the mini is actually really good because they’re getting older as well.

Crew Chief Brad: And I have heard that the motor mounts are a failure point on those cars as well.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, we do those up front on the Volkswagen’s [00:18:00] because we know the stock ones are just garbage again, right back to those very soft bushings to try to make the cars drivable every day versus, you know, track use.

Crew Chief Brad: So coming up next is the. The famous BRZ and FRS, the Burrs and the Furs twins, uh, that Subaru and Toyota got together and put out a few years ago.

I love child. They would be amazing cars if they had about a hundred more horsepower. Not even that, if they had about 50 more horsepower. I think they would be a blast to drive. They’re, they’re supposed to be well balanced. Their rear wheel drive, manual transmission. Uh, they’re very forgiving. I guess that also lends to being a little bit lower horsepower.

They’re very popular. They’re really popular with the kids. They’re not very expensive. Brand new ones are low thirties and high twenties. Um, they’ve got a huge aftermarket again, Toyota and Subaru, uh, kids love them. Now I will say that I’ve heard a rumor, the new one coming out, I don’t know if it’s [00:19:00] 2021 or 2022 is going to have a turbo.

That might be something to keep an eye on. I think they redesigned it. The look also is quite similar to the new Supra. So it’s supposed to be like a baby Supra. They’re great little cars if they’re well sorted as. We’ve seen it, uh, certain race functions with one group, Emra. Uh, they can be made super fast, allegedly in fairly stock trim.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, the jury’s still out on that one, but, uh, to your, to your point. Right. So I think some of the downsides, the BRZ, you covered it in base trim. The BRZ’s engine is not going to excite you. If any of our listeners are, are of a, of an older generation and ever, they ever got an opportunity to drive a Porsche 944 in its base trim.

Uh, it’s the same thing. It’s one of those cars that they handle fantastic. They’re quick and nimble. But they just don’t like the world on fire. They don’t make any good sounds. They just, it’s just kind of boring and mundane. I hate to say, but you’re [00:20:00] right. The price point is good, especially for a car that you can just go buy off of the Toyota dealership or the Subaru dealership lot.

today for, you know, let’s say sub 30, 000 and go have fun and do nothing to it. Granted, I don’t live far from IAG and I see plenty of those cars out there being modified. And I’ve gotten an opportunity to instruct in some modified BRZs and stock ones. And I will say the modified ones, especially the supercharged cars are light years better.

And that added, like you said, extra 50 horsepower makes. All the difference in making that car exciting in the same way. The nine 44 turbo really turned it up to 11 compared to the base, you know, nine 24, nine 24 S and nine 40 fours that they were built on. The other thing I will say, I have heard from some BRZ owners that when you really start to push them, they tend to be a little bit fragile.

There’s some parts in there that have to be upgraded, but if you’re just starting out. Very forgiving car, much like the E36, much like a 944. It’s going to reward you. You’re going to have a lot of fun, but you probably [00:21:00] will crave more as you go along.

Crew Chief Brad: And it’s a Subaru motor underneath, uh, in both the, the, the Subaru and the Toyota.

And I believe that boxer motor traditionally have head gasket issues.

Crew Chief Eric: I believe, and I’m not a Subaru expert. I know Sam knows more, and there’s a bunch of other Subaru guys in the club. I believe this is a different motor. Then, uh, somebody online will correct my, my acronym here. I think it’s the EJ that’s in like the WRXs and stuff.

This was actually a new motor from Subaru. It has a Toyota valve train and Toyota ejection system on it. So it is a, a cross platform between the two brands. But yes, at the end of the day, the car, you know, whether you buy it with a Scion badge, you buy it with Toyota badges, a GT86, or you buy a BRZ, they’re all the same.

So up next on the list, it looks like we jump. Off the deep end into a pile of bratwurst and there’s a porsche 996 on this list So we’re like wait a minute. I thought we were talking about starter cars, right? But the [00:22:00] 996 actually makes the list because it is very much that it is like the perfect starter porsche If you don’t want a front engine Porsche, like a nine 44 or nine 68 or something like that, the nine nine six is really great value for the money and it wins out over the aging nine 44.

But there are some concerns with the nine nine six. And I know you’ve looked into this car extensively, Brad. So tell us about it.

Crew Chief Brad: The, uh, IMS bearing the intermediate shaft bearing is a huge fail point. And. I mean, not even just for the 996, for the 911, but also for the, the Boxsters of the same year. If that goes, I mean, you’re putting 20 grand into a new motor.

People can buy these cars, uh, once you do, if it hasn’t been done already, make sure that that failure point is taken care of. I can’t imagine because it’s a Porsche, Porsche parts, aftermarket parts and stuff, even though they are there. They’re going to be quite pricey. Just like with BMW, usually you pay the M tax with Mercedes.

You’re going to pay the AMG tax. If [00:23:00] you’ve got an AMG model Porsches, you’re going to pay the Porsche tax, regardless of what Porsche model you have. If you’ve got a little bit of money to burn, uh, and you’re looking for something There’s tons of aftermarket support. There’s the Porsche Club of America is a club dedicated to Porsches.

Uh, you can get into their specific Porsche races and huge, uh, support system there. Those people know everything there is possibly to know about Porsches. Now they tend to not like the 996 because of the looks. I don’t know why. I think they’re great looking cars. They say they’ve got the, the egg drop headlights.

I don’t see a problem with them. I would, I would own a 996 if I could afford it right now.

Crew Chief Eric: And I think it was, it was also, uh. Old guard versus new school adopting water cooling for the first time, you know, a lot of those, the Porsche club racer guys, you know, they’re dedicated air cooled cars, right? Oh, I gotta have my two seven RS.

I gotta have my nine, you know, my three, six twin spark, you know, all those, those motors that they were classic, especially a lot of those guys are still running vintage, but [00:24:00] now time has, has progressed and you’re seeing nine, nine, six, nine, nine, seven, nine, nine ones, you know, GT twos, GT threes. They’re all water cooled 911s now, but the thing is in the 996 and the reason it’s a good starter car, if you want a different experience, a 911 is a completely different driving experience because it’s, you know, it’s like throwing a hammer.

It’s a front wheel drive with five reverse gears, right? And one forward, but realistically it is bargain basement. There was a period there. You could get. A 996, whether it had the IMS done or not for sub 15 K. I mean, all day long. I’m like cars. com. You’d see, Oh, 996, uh, 13, 000. And I’m like, what? So if that’s your cup of tea, you know, that little bit of roll gray there, or maybe sauerkraut in this case.

The, the, uh, the 996 is definitely the way to go, but again, do your due diligence, as Brad said, talk to some people about those cars first to figure out what’s [00:25:00] going on. So what’s next, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: Next, we’ve got the Ford Mustang specifically. We’re going to focus on the 2014 and up the redesign, independent rear suspension, you know, all that good stuff they’ve got.

Three motors, four motors, depending on if you go with the, the GT three 50 R or like a GT 500 or something to me, there’s really only one motor. It’s, it’s the coyote V8 or nothing at all. You can take the turbo EcoBoost motor. They’re great little motors. You can get a lot of power out of them. But it sounds like a weed whacker going down the track.

I mean, if you have a Mustang, it shouldn’t sound like that. The V6 is another stout motor. I don’t know if they’re still offering it with the V6, but that was another good motor. I had 300 something horsepower in a base car. It’s pretty, pretty good. But for me, if you’re going to own a Mustang, then you’ve got to have all of the Mustang, which is all eight cylinders.

Crew Chief Eric: All the crowd control. So having had the pleasure of instructing and driving several of these cars, I’m really infatuated with them. They’re [00:26:00] actually really, really good. And it’s, for me, it started almost before this car came out. I got an opportunity to coach in some boss three Oh twos, the 2013s. And the rumor has it though, the car was completely redesigned.

I have my speculations that the German division of Ford was involved because it’s. Unlike anything else, the suspension was derived from the 302 and the 302 at that time when I got in out of it for the first time on track, I was like, this car is fantastic out of the box. I could not believe how good the handling was that carried over to the S five 50, which is that the current generation of Mustangs and the engine choice is really up to you because.

As you’ve alluded to the mods are there and we have proof through several members The four cylinder is fast, especially with that ford power pack, which is you know, it doesn’t void your warranty It’s something they sold to boost the power make it almost 300 at the rear wheels and the four cylinder screams It’s a lot more reliable than something like the focus rs, which has the same motor We’ve seen nothing but problems with those cars and that’s [00:27:00] why obviously they’re not on this list

Crew Chief Brad: And I think it’s because of the packaging too.

I mean, the, the, that short nose, everything’s compact in the Focus RS. Um, there’s, there’s no room for it because the Mustang was designed for the V8 or designed to at least house a V8. There’s so much more room in there. Air probably flows better. These are just my assumptions and conspiracy theories at this point, but that’s why that that’s my personal belief as to why the Mustangs are more reliable.

Crew Chief Eric: And being an American car, like you said, has great aftermarket support wheels, brakes, wings, you know, whatever, bling, whatever you want to put on there. And that’s great. But downside to the Mustang is it is a bit heavy, especially when you’re comparing it to the Corvette, which I don’t know why they try to compare themselves.

Cause It doesn’t belong in that pony war, right? It’s Camaro and Mustang. It’s always been that way, but they try to reach and say, Oh, the Corvette. And it does, it can perform and it can get out there and beat up on some Corvettes, especially with the five Oh and the GT three 50, but it is heavy. Do notice that when you drive it, the hood is kind of long.

So you have to [00:28:00] get used to the perspective of looking out over the front of the battleship. But the thing is. The weight balance is really good. So the car is really predictable. It’s got a lot more intelligence in it. The independent suspension is fantastic. I will say the handling on the four cylinder is better than the Coyote, just because it weighs probably half as much as the V8 does.

Right. And I think the other big negative to having a Mustang track car is that you’re never allowed to go to cars and coffee. Ever.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Sure. You, you lose that right. The second you sign on the dotted line, and we don’t want to just focus on the Mustang here. As you brought up earlier, you alluded to the, the pony war.

There’s also the Camaros and the, the challengers. They’re both in the same vein is the Mustang. I think the Mustang wins on track. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you read any road and track or car and driver article about the comparison between the three and the Mustang is definitely the better choice for the track car.[00:29:00]

The Challenger is a better choice for the street. It’s a nice place to be, especially the redesigned interior and the newer ones. I know the exterior of the car is the same, has been the same for what, 200 years now? It has not changed at all. Uh, I think people used to pull ox carts with them.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: but the car itself is, it’s, there’s no need to change it.

Why change something that works? Uh, they sell really well. They’re, they’re really comfortable. They’re great. So I would call them great just touring cars.

Crew Chief Eric: And the problem with the Camaro, which we’re kind of avoiding talking about here, the problem with the Camaro is, and I don’t want to offend Brett, who we’ll have on, on a later episode, for sure.

The problem with the Camaro is it’s heavy, just like the Mustang is, but I think it’s heavier even then. And when you compare the package. And the price to get like a one L E or a Z 28 or a ZL one or something like that. You just go, I’m just going to go buy a Corvette, right? Because it’s the same power or like, but the Corvette is a better car.

And then like, you know, why do I want to [00:30:00] drive around in a Corvette that weighs as much as, you know, my wife’s minivan, right?

Crew Chief Brad: So I can tell you why though, because I don’t fit properly on a Corvette. I fit in one of the, some of the most fun I’ve ever had on track. Is riding shotgun in Brett’s Camaro.

Crew Chief Eric: I will give you that.

I will give you that. And that’s actually the down, one of the downsides we forgot to talk about in the BRZ. It is a small cabin. So for you, I don’t think you’d be very comfortable in the BRZ, you know, after a half hour stint,

Crew Chief Brad: not with a helmet on

Crew Chief Eric: for me, the Camaro, just going back to wrap that thought up.

I always downvote that car because I have a hard time seeing out of it. And it’s not because I’m short. It’s just. Because I feel like it’s a chop top and the visibility, especially kind of over your shoulder and the blind spots. And it has those, those big hips and stuff. It just, the

Crew Chief Brad: belt line is a little too high in that car.

And I understand that’s just, this is the way cars are being designed nowadays. But in that car, especially the belt line, it’s just, it’s just too high. There’s not enough window space and you’re right. That’s [00:31:00] one of the criticisms you ask anybody that, that does tests and reviews of them. The first complaint is I can’t see out of it.

Crew Chief Eric: And that translates to the track for those listening at home. Visibility at the track is key. You need to be able to see where you’re going. You need to be able to look across the A pillars and, and, and look at the apex, right? You need to be able to see behind you who’s coming. That’s a big drawback to the Lotus Elise like Andrew just picked up.

You can’t see out of those cars. I mean, I have a hard time in the Audi with, uh, I have a TT and it’s the same thing with that really small back glass. It makes it very difficult to see sometimes. So you have to get really strategic. But we’ll, we’ll park that for now. We can talk about the pony wars at another time.

Crew Chief Brad: Now we’re going back to front wheel drive and we’re going to talk about the Hondas, I mean, Hondas, Acuras. I mean, we can lump in the Nissan Sentros and, and anything really small, economical front wheel drive, small motor. You do not need to make a lot of power to have fun at the track. You need something that’s going to be nimble and it’s going to be reliable [00:32:00] where you’re going to be able to find parts for it.

And the Honda is especially the, the, the nineties and early 2000s SIs, in addition to the Acura Integras and everything are great options. And also you can get the, the prelude. If you want to be a little funky, you want something a little bit different. We’ve got a couple of members that are. Honda fanatics and they’ve got the preludes and stuff like that.

The big bore, the big bore Honda. Yeah, the big bore Honda. They’re, they’re great cars. They’re reliable. I mean that you can run the, the heck out of them. You can probably get four or five hours out of them. Did full tilt, a wide open throttle. And the, you just ask for more, they take a beating and they do not care.

They’re very cheap to operate. If anybody’s ever seen fast and the furious, which we hope our listeners have at least watched the first one, they’ll know that the aftermarket support for that is huge, especially if you want spoon engines.

Crew Chief Eric: Ryan to rob banks, you know,

Crew Chief Brad: but yeah, they’re, they’re [00:33:00] great cars.

They’re, they don’t have the luxurious factor of. The mark fours really thin materials, really thin metal and sheet metal and stuff like that. Um, they don’t have the fit and finish of some of those other cars, but for a track car, who the hell cares?

Crew Chief Eric: Right. And that’s actually part of their beauty. And part of the, the, is the simplicity and the lightness, right?

Uh, the, the, the Lotus mantra, add light, add lightness, but, uh, the Honda’s already start there, but the thing is, and I’ve had the pleasure of, of running many Honda’s and we have dinoed several of them and things like that. The Honda’s an interesting car because as you said, it will take a beating and it really reminds me of the older Italian cars, you know, those spaghetti powered motors that live their lives at 9, 000 RPM and they’re not happy if they’re not there.

The Honda’s are very similar. They don’t, they’re not known for making powerful engines, you know, and let’s take the NSX’s and, and all those things off the table. Let’s just talk about the four cylinders, right? Anywhere from the 1500s to the, to the two liters, you know. [00:34:00] Discounting the bigger motors. You look at the numbers and it’s like 900 horsepower and 43 foot pounds of torque.

And torque is what you feel. And that’s usually the drawback. The negative that people give about a Honda is it just doesn’t feel like it’s moving. But when in reality, you’re looking at your exit speeds and because you can keep it wound up because you can stay in the power band, as long as you’re above VTEC, you can actually go really fast.

And the cars are deceptively quick. I will say, dynoing it, uh, we dynoed Matthew’s Civic Si, he’s got a 99, and off VTEC, until VTEC kicked in, it made the same power, identical to a spec Miata 1. 6 liter, right, so dollar for dollar, the B16, And a one six miata made the same power when vtec kicked in all of a sudden the torque curve just stayed the same And the horsepower nearly doubled and it sounds like a completely different engine.

It’s something to get used to Those are the type of cars. You really have to scruff them. You have to drive them [00:35:00] really hard It all gets kind of obfuscated by those torque numbers and all that kind of stuff But it doesn’t mean you’re not going to have fun But again, if you’re looking for cheap easy big parts, uh aftermarket support the honda is a good choice It’s a good recommendation.

All right, one of your personal favorites, Corvette. But big asterisks is here, right? It’s kind of like the Volkswagen’s. There’s one generation that’s really a great starter car, and that’s the C5. The C5 being the, correct my, correct my years on those cars. It’s in the early 2000s, much like

Crew Chief Brad: 97 to 2004.

There you go.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay. So a lot of these cars, you’re starting to realize they’re overlapping here. The 46 is the Corvettes, the Porsches. We’re talking about even the VWs. They’re all in a similar age range. They’re getting up there. 15 17 almost 20 years old. They’re really affordable. They were good cars. Then cars today are very different.

But the C five specifically again, very [00:36:00] different than the cars that came before it. But also different than the cars that came after the C6 was a complete redesign and everything’s based on that. The C4 carried over from the older generation, like the C3s and stuff like that. So to me, the five felt like a different chassis.

And I I’ve been very fortunate to spend time with the national Corvette museum organization, the Corvette club and have ridden in various different generations of Corvette on track. And I always feel the most comfortable in the C5. The C4 is kind of rides like a truck. The C6 is super twitchy. The C7, you feel like you’re in a jet fighter.

It’s a completely different experience. The C5 is a driver’s car. It’s got big horsepower, you know, for that time period, 400 torques. And you don’t need to do any mods to it because even now they’re talking about spec Corvette racing, which is all based on the C5. So I look at it as big motor, big fun.

Crew Chief Brad: To clarify the Z06 is the one with the [00:37:00] 400 horsepower.

In, in gobs of toric, if you get the, the lower model, uh, I say lower model, but like a base C five, uh, with the target top, they’re around 345 horsepower is what they were advertised with the crank. And then for the Z O six, you want 2002 to 2004 for the 405 horsepower. The first of the 06 2001 had 385 horsepower,

Crew Chief Eric: but you’ve always told me with those American motors, throw a cam in there and an exhaust and all of a sudden you got 100 horsepower.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, with the LS motors, they’re very easy to mod. The car is not very heavy. I mean, so it’s, it would not be hard. You don’t even really need all that power. The power that comes with this is great, but they’re I think they’re I think they’re great cars. They’re a little more roomy than the newer vets It’s still 90s chevrolet sitting in one.

So it’s not a great place to be So you’re rocketing down, you know the back street of bir passing volkswagens and hondas and

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, everything else on this list Yeah, exactly,

Crew Chief Brad: but it’s to get to the point of cost of [00:38:00] ownership. They are A bit pricey to maintain the rear tires, the three 45s, um, they’ve got a staggered setup.

So buying wheels for them, unless you get the same all around that you’ve got to keep track of that. So the expenses can start to add up for those cars, just maintenance and everything like that. Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: And I think you’re going to start to see what the spec Miata spec Miata with this Corvette racing that’s coming out.

You’re going to see a lot of really interestingly, similarly, rather. Prepared Corvettes. And when people get out of the series after a year or two or three, because that’s usually kind of the length of a lot of those series, unless it’s spec Miata racing or spec E36, which now is, is actually kind of sun setting as well.

You’re going to be able to pick up a spec Corvette for not a lot of money. And those are going to be well prepared cars with log books sorted. You want to go out and have fun. Again, going back to what Sam said, when we quoted him, build versus buy, buy.

Crew Chief Brad: Next is the answer for 99. [00:39:00] 9 percent of people out there.

All of this talk that we’ve been talking for, what, 45 minutes now? It’s all, it’s all been for Nod because the answer has been right there in front of us the whole time. Oh man. The Mazda Miata. They have spec series and everything. Uh, they, they, they’re cheap. I mean, you can get them, you can get the NAs for the bag of chips or something like that, they’re very well balanced cars.

They’re very forgiving because they’re low horsepower. They don’t, well, we’ve got a friend that loops it all the time, but that may be his driving style versus. But they’re, they’re great cars, tons of support. Like, because there’s a racing series, uh, they’re, I mean, you can get tires for them for 50 bucks, racing slicks.

Your goal is to go racing. It’s the best car. The best thing about the Miata is being on track with other Miata’s though. When you’re, if you’re out on track in a Miata and you’re at a DE event, for example, where the, everybody’s out there driving, whatever they brought. You’re going to be given a lot of point buys.

I’m not going to lie, but if you’re out there doing spec [00:40:00] racing, you know, in the racing series, uh, then you’re out there with everybody else. You’re all even playing field. They’re a ton of fun. I’ve never been in one of the spec me out of races, but I’ve watched enough of them. And

Crew Chief Eric: why is that Brad? Is there a reason why?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, uh, no, I don’t know. I just haven’t gotten into it. I can’t, I can’t, I can’t say why.

Crew Chief Eric: All right listeners, he’s six foot four. We’re just gonna leave it there. We’re gonna leave it to your imagination.

Crew Chief Brad: I fit in some of the Miatas. I do not fit in the originals. The NB, I don’t really fit. But, why don’t we talk about some of the other drawbacks other than the size.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, so I’ve been really fortunate. I’ve driven all four generations of the Miata. I will say this. It’s the early cars do not impress, right? Especially the one sixes. If you’re looking at a spec car fully prepared with all the goodies and bells and whistles, as long as it’s not a cheater motor, you’re looking at somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and four wheel horsepower.

That is [00:41:00] nothing to write home about. And

Crew Chief Brad: that’s 104 people,

Crew Chief Eric: not 140 104. The other thing is the Miatas are. Are now 30 years old, right? They came out in 1990, probably in Japan, actually a little bit earlier that probably 89, but still they’re getting up there, they’re getting a little long in the tooth. So don’t expect big numbers, but it’s a car actually modeled after the Lotus Elan, if you really go back in time.

And so it has that simplicity. It has that lightness and that 104 horsepower wheel horsepower, you’d be amazed what you can do with that. Because it really forces you to grow as a driver. And so you end up driving that Miata at the absolute limit. I mean, a lot of guys run 9 tenths, 10 tenths. I run it 11.

But in your Miata, all of a sudden you’re cranking up to 13 because you have to overdrive it in some cases to really squeeze out every drip. of blood out of that turnip. That being said, when you graduate from Emiata as something else, you just graduated jet fighter school because you get in any other [00:42:00] car and you’re going to be fast, but you have to have the patience.

You can’t expect it to be fast right away because it isn’t, it’s a momentum car. Now every car has momentum. I can hear people buzzing in my ear. But it’s one of those things where it’s all about carrying speed and maximizing your exit speed on every corner. If I had to pick a Miata for myself, I really like the nc, which is the third generation Miatas.

Those came out in 2005 to 2013. There’s actually an NC one and an NC two. They did a, a split in there. It’s bigger, it’s more comfortable. It also has a two liter 16 valve instead of the, you know, you know the smaller motors from the early days. It’s a much more rewarding car because it makes 140 horsepower ish.

I’m going to add that in there, but the NDs for me, the current ones are too small because they’ve gone back to making them the size of the NANBs, but Of the new generation, I’d have to pick the Fiat 124 just because I can get it with [00:43:00] a turbo and I can chip it and make double the horsepower immediately.

It is a different power plant. It’s not a Mazda power plant. It’s a Fiat Abarth multi air, uh, engine from the 500 Abarth. So that’s nice. I also like the fact that the 124 is bigger, but I still, I call it a Fiata. So it still lives in that Miata category, but you’re going to spend a lot more for a new Miata versus go on racing junk.

com. Type in the word Miata, and there’s probably a hundred of them to choose from right now that you can get into that are fully sorted and fully prepared. That’s another car I would argue, if you’re, if you’re really destined on going racing, just buy one already done, it’s not worth building one from scratch.

But if you’re looking at doing some DEs, driving it on the street, you know, to throw the top down and have a good time, or do some autocross, you know, some, some spirited driving, the Miata is the all around, probably best package on the list. So with that being said, you know, not to wax poetic about the Miata that much more, because the people that know, know, and the people that don’t are going to buy one soon.

[00:44:00] So are there any honorable mentions on this list, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: There are. I don’t know why there are, because all these cars that I’m looking at here are turds, but there are some honorable mentions out there. I mean, we briefly mentioned the Porsche 944. Okay, sell me, sell me one, sell me why.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay, well, so the 944 was one of these weird cross pollination projects where there’s rumors, you know, some, some Porsche purists have, are now arguing that the 944 was always supposed to be a Porsche.

And if you’re in the VW VAG family, then you go, no, it was designed by VW, much like the 914, and Porsche stole it from us and said, no, we’re going to slap our badge on and go to There’s so many crossover parts between like a Marco and rabbit. And, uh, and an Audi truck and like in the 944, it’s not even funny, right?

Because the, the part numbers, it’s like, Oh, that’s a door handle off a rabbit, you know, stuff like that. It makes it cheap, which is good because if you know how to cross match the parts, you don’t have to pay the Porsche [00:45:00] tax because you can buy the equivalent Volkswagen part, bolt it right up and you’re done.

Crew Chief Brad: Also, if you’re talking about it being cheap. You’re not talking about the turbo one then. Correct. Correct. You’re talking about the NAs.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct. Now we already said we’re comparing it to the BRZ, right? So non turbo, normally aspirated, does motors run forever? They’re relatively bulletproof. There’s a couple of years there, 2.

5, 2. 7. There’s a rumored three liter in there. I. I would lean that towards the 968, don’t, don’t, don’t quote me on any of this stuff. There is a 16 valve version in a normally aspirated car, all that kind of stuff. But the Porsche 944 was one of, at the time, Porsche’s highest selling cars because it was more affordable than the 911.

It was more aerodynamic than the 911, you know, stuff like that. And people could just get into it. It was the every man Porsche, much like the Ferrari 308. Was the every man’s Ferrari. That’s why there’s so many of those cars, despite the popularity from Magnum PI and all that kind of stuff. So tell me why you don’t like it.

What’s in the con column here.

Crew Chief Brad: [00:46:00] I, I personally don’t like the turbos, I guess, because I’ve heard, well, one, they’re expensive. They’re expensive to get into expensive. They’re hard to find. They aren’t very reliable and this is all purely hearsay. I mean, I’ve got zero experience with them personally. I prefer the lines and the look of the nine 24.

Hmm, but it’s either a 9 44 NA or a 9 24. The first thing I would do to it, other than painted it guards red, is to do a motor swap and put a one at in it. .

Crew Chief Eric: or lss, right? Like,

Crew Chief Brad: no, no. I’m, I’m gonna stick with the, the Volkswagen. I’m gonna stick with the one at, or maybe a two liter if I want to get a little saucy with it.

Mm-hmm. or even a VR six. You put any of those motors in it done? Yeah, I, I’m sure it has. I don’t know, I just, I don’t know. I’m just not a fan

Crew Chief Eric: for me. I mean, the 944 is an icon, right? I mean, they came out when I was a kid. It’s it’s a car. You know, you just see him everywhere. I mean, you don’t see him as much anymore, but it’s an icon, but it really hasn’t aged.

Well, right? I think owning and operating a 944. Unless you’re [00:47:00] really willing to work on it yourself. And we have a Porsche master mechanic, uh, in our group, who’s told us horror stories about these cars. They do have head gasket issues. Like you mentioned, because of the way the engine’s constructed and all this kind of stuff.

You need to be able to turn wrenches on those cars because there are still. Uh mechanics out there paying off their mortgages on 944s because they’ve been doing that since the 80s Um, so it’s really important you get, you know, kind of get your knuckles dirty and work on those your yourself I will again.

It’s another car building from a base 944 is an expensive endeavor, right? Getting all those high quality parts, taking care of all the mistakes, taking, you know, doing 30 years of evolution. Let somebody like, let somebody else’s wallet have taken care of that. Again, go to racing junk, find one that’s already built.

Here’s one we often forget. And actually one of our members just picked one of these up. It’s the Nissan 350 Z the first generation, 2003 to whatever year. And,

Crew Chief Brad: and don’t forget it’s brother, the, the, the G a 35 and the [00:48:00] G 37. That is correct.

Crew Chief Eric: I like the Z it is 15 plus years old. Now the prices have come way down on these cars.

The VQ motor, despite being a Renault engine that comes out of a like run of the mill sedan, it’s actually a very strong motor. Renault is pretty well known for building very good high performance engines in formula one and rally and things like that. So I’m not saying that the street cars are as good, but the VQ is proven to be a strong motor, much like the two JZ, much like the one eight turbo, the R six and stuff like that, where you can mod them and they will take a beating.

And just keep going the handling on the 350z because I’ve had the pleasure of, of instructing in a few of these cars. They’re super neutral, very forgiving. And I’ve run in some that are modified and some that are almost bone stock. And they’re just, I couldn’t believe how good they were and how rewarding the driving experience was.

I kind of, I always had this stigma in my head of like, Oh my God, it’s like a 300 ZX from. You know, just [00:49:00] after the early Z cars had gone away. The first time I got in a new Z, I was like, man, this is really cool. But it’s often a car that is just, again, overlooked. It’s forgotten. And I would put it right up there with a proper mods.

It’s just as good as like an E46. So what do you think, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, I don’t fit. So it’s not on my list, but that’s why I mentioned the G35 and G37s, because I think they’re, they’re nice places to be, they’re nice cars, they’re bigger, uh, obviously, uh, because it’s got the infinity, that’s more their, their street touring car, uh, and I, it’s pretty much the same car underneath, I’m sure there are some minor differences, but basically they’re the same car, it’s harder to find one in a manual, but they are out there, uh, the 350Z, if I fit better, I, I’d be more But because I don’t, and the same with the 944, I just, I don’t think I fit properly in them.

And it’s just a problem that I have. Uh, we’ll talk about it at a later episode, but it’s just, it’s very hard to find vehicles that are fun to [00:50:00] drive that I actually fit in.

Crew Chief Eric: So I, I think you’ll agree with me though. You can pick a VQ out of all the cars going around track. It has a very distinct sound to it.

It’s not a bad sound. You put an exhaust on a Z, you’re, it’s going to. It’s going to be pleasure to your ears if you’re into slightly louder cars. But I think the drawback for the Z is because there aren’t very many of them as DE cars. There are lots of drift Z cars and Z cars built for other disciplines, drag racing, etc.

You’re going to be a bit of a pioneer when it comes to road racing. So it means the aftermarket scene and the parts, and I’m going through this with Portia Al right now, who we’re going to have on the show at a later date where he’s like, so what am I targeting? What should I be looking for? I’m having, I’m kind of reaching here to find these things that for you guys with BMWs and VWs and minis and all this stuff, you guys can get those parts tomorrow and I’m like, yeah, so he’s going to have to dig and do a little homework, but he’s starting to chip away at it and it’s becoming easier.

So. He’s a bit of a pioneer, [00:51:00] especially for us to say, Hey, this is how you build a Z card. And he’s going to do a write up on that. Well, if you’re looking to buy one, be careful of the, what I call the showy cars or the stance bro cars, because they’ve got all the wrong mods. You’re going to spend a lot of money to undo stuff, bring the camber back, raise the car up, you know, get rid of the 10, you know, all these kinds of things that are completely unnecessary at the track, by the way, airbags.

It’s not a good suspension plan for road racing. I’ve also heard rumors that the Zs are prone to have transmission problems. There is an upgraded transmission for those. And I know Matthew always tells me the joke is that the transes are so bad in the Z cars that Nissan was just giving new ones and telling people to throw the old ones away.

They weren’t even doing core charges. That being said, you know, it’s 15 years later, so they’ve made modifications. There’s some updates to those, those cars to take care of the drivetrain issues. Do your research, you know, dive into that kind of stuff before going whole hog on a 350z. So what’s left?

Crew Chief Brad: Well, we’ve already touched on it a little bit earlier, but the [00:52:00] final recommendation we have is basically anything front wheel drive, a condo box sedan.

Our example would be a neon. I mean, there was an entire racing series dedicated to the neon. Uh, it’s cheap, just like the Volkswagens out there. Yeah, really inexpensive. They got huge aftermarket support, especially because there was a racing series for them. They’ve got decent power. They’re a little torque here than the Hondas.

They’re they’re fun. They’re fun. Little cars. I don’t think there’s racing series for them anymore. Um, but if you go on racing junk, I’m sure you can find a ton of those cars out there. Especially because there’s no racing series. I mean, we’re talking about the original the the first gen, uh, neons There’s also the second gen neons which the srt4.

It’s still a neon even though it’s srt4. It is still a neon But that’s the big downside but those cars are turbo cars turbo four cylinders. They came out of the box with 300 horsepower. I think 200 something on horsepower. Very easily moddable. [00:53:00] You can get big power out of those cars. More power means more responsibility and more things start to break.

Um, so you’re mindful of that. And then the downside is it’s an eon.

Crew Chief Eric: So, and to your point, right, I have time trials. For a couple seasons against, uh, through with SS c c A and every time I went, there was always a neon in the group. And one of the guys I was targeting in the, in the higher classes was actually running a World Challenge neon.

And I was really surprised how much effort it took to chase that car down, especially the, the s r T four. I mean, they’re making, well, I think we were limited to like 320 or 330 wheel horsepower. And getting those kind of numbers out of an s r t Fort Neon was like, Okay. Sure. Let me just, let me just turn the dial and we’re ready to go.

That being said, it’s not a bad handling car. It’s another car you can dial in with, you know, lift throttle oversteer, just like the Volkswagen’s and stuff like that. But yeah, to your point, I mean, there’s a lot of jokes about the neon. And again, it’s why it’s on our [00:54:00] honorable mention list because it’s often overlooked.

It’s a. Cheap car to get into a cheap car to maintain. There is some sharing there with it’s a DSM platform or engine platform. So you’ve got some of that Mitsubishi crossover, especially in the early cars. If you can get a 16 valve sport, that’s a, that’s an Eclipse motor. So it’s a lot better than the run of the mill base Chrysler engine that was, that was put in those cars.

The SRT four actually is overbuilt. The block is the same as a mini. If I remember correctly, somebody told me that, which is actually. This is a Peugeot 206 or something like that. So it’s a European block and then everybody puts their head on it and the turbo of choice and all that kind of stuff. But again, it’s not a car to kind of just turn your nose at if you’re looking for a starter car to get in on track use.

Crew Chief Brad: In order to widen your net. We recommend a bunch of different websites if you want to look for some of the cars that we’ve already talked about, or if you just want to see what else is out there. I mean, there’s tons of people racing cars. Uh, and then when they race them, they get bored with them as you know, [00:55:00] we all do.

Uh, and then they sell them. Uh, so racing junk is a great place to look. Um, there’s also, uh, bring a trailer. Uh, I think bring a trailer has a lot more of the. I guess collector cars. So that’s Queens. Yeah, the prices are going to be all over the map on that site. Um, you can go either way. Um, but based on some of our member experiences, you can often bring unforeseen problems with some of these cars, as you said, these garage Queens that may not be set up properly for for driving.

They’re just weekend warriors, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: And finally, I think, you know, one of my go tos is always cars. com. I mean, I’m not here to plug or advertise any one of these sites, but these are the tools you have at your disposal to find an entry level, you know, a track car, autocross car, you know, B road bomber.

I’m with you though. I go back and forth, right? I have fantasies. I’m going to build one. I’m going to buy one. It all depends on the mood. But I think these three [00:56:00] websites you recommended are really, really strong in that category. And remember your mileage may vary. So it’s really, it’s really going to be different for everybody.

And I will throw something out there. You know, if you look hard enough on bring a trailer, you might be able to pick up a painless Esperanto full on TT one race car. So for not a lot of money and a parking in your garage, you never work on it, but that’s an episode for another day. So. In full disclosure, I just have to add this as we wrap up, our high level assessment of all the cars on this list is really based on our members and our owner and owner experiences.

We urge you to do your own research and fact check everything before committing to any one of these vehicles. GTM and Brad and I specifically, we’re not responsible for your satisfaction, your happiness, or your overall track performance, you know, winning trophies, all that kind of stuff. That’s that’s up to you with whatever vehicle you choose.

So make sure to visit, you know, vehicle specific online forums and or owners clubs for highly detailed firsthand information on any vehicle you might be [00:57:00] interested. So with that, peace. Peace.

So there you have it. He broke it. I fixed it. Until next time, always remember, if you can take it apart without breaking it, you can surely fix it. From all of us at GTM,

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.

Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read? from GTM? Great, so do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it.

But please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization, but we still need help to keep the momentum going so that we can [00:58:00] continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help.

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

  • C5 Corvette
  • Hondas
  • Honorable mention… Porsche 944
  • Honorable mention… The 350 Z
  • Honorable Mention… Dodge Neon

Honorable Mentions & Final Thoughts

GTM’s discussion also touched on other worthy options:

  • C5 Corvette
  • Porsche 944 (NA versions)
  • Nissan 350Z / Infiniti G35
  • Dodge Neon (including SRT4)
  • Honda Civic Si, Acura Integra

GTM’s experts agree—buying a well-prepped track car often saves time and money compared to building one from scratch. Whether it’s a spec Miata or an ex-SCCA racer, purchasing a sorted car eliminates the headache of addressing major failure points upfront.

For those embarking on their track car journey, platforms like RacingJunk, Bring a Trailer, and Cars.com offer a wealth of options, while forums and owners’ groups provide invaluable insights on vehicle maintenance and modification paths.

Ultimately, the best track car is one that aligns with your goals, driving style, and willingness to maintain it. Whether it’s an agile Miata, a balanced BMW, or a rumbling Mustang, GTM’s panel encourages first-time buyers to take their time researching—and, most importantly, to have fun.


Do you have some suggestions?

Let’s agree to disagree and come share your opinions and continue the conversation on the Break/Fix Discord!


This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

GTM’s Podcast: Break/Fix

We’re proud to announce that last week, a long time passion project of mine has become a reality and our much anticipated podcast “BREAK/FIX” is now available for streaming on your favorite podcast apps (Apple/iTunes, Overcast, etc). And if you don’t use a podcast app, you can find us on https://gtmotorsports.podbean.com from your PC / browser.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Listen on Apple
Listen on YouTube
Listen on Spotify

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
  • 00:36 Who is GTM?
  • 01:48 The Origins of GTM
  • 02:30 High School Days and Early Car Enthusiasm
  • 06:53 College Years and First Cars
  • 10:46 The Birth of Grand Touring Audi
  • 15:09 Transition to Road Racing and Engine Swaps
  • 23:00 Reconnecting and Starting GTM
  • 27:56 Reviving the Family Aspect of Car Clubs
  • 28:21 Founding Grand Touring Motorsports
  • 29:07 Early Growth and Expansion
  • 30:32 Creating a Community Beyond the Track
  • 31:17 Current Status and Future Plans
  • 34:54 Regional Growth and Special Events
  • 39:49 Philanthropy and Education Initiatives
  • 44:41 Unique Events and Awards
  • 46:20 Virtual Racing League and Fun Activities
  • 48:14 Looking Ahead: Future Goals and Listener Input
  • 53:36 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

I’m Brad with me as always is my cohost, Eric. And oftentimes we say it’s not about the destination. It’s all about the journey. So in this episode, our inaugural episode, we’re going to answer the questions, who is GTM, which a GTM is short for grand touring motorsports. Where did we come from and where are we going?

Crew Chief Eric: And Eric, take it away. All right. So let’s start with, let’s start with our mission statement, right? Just kind of summarize who we are right off the bat. Grand Touring Motorsports is a non traditional motorsports club started in [00:01:00] 2014 as a social group of car enthusiasts. We’ve expanded into all sorts of motorsport and want to share our experiences with you.

Our membership consists of a bunch of petrolheads who like to get together and have a great time. But years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings us brings together a top notch collection of knowledge, stories, and information. As a whole, we serve several areas, what we call the DMV, the Northeast, our Southern States, and our Mountain Region.

Our areas of interest revolve around high performance driver’s education, HPDE, autocross, club racing, cart racing, drag racing, off roading, car shows, or just about anything car related. So I’ll thank, uh, one of our region chiefs, Brett, for carefully repinning our mission statement two years ago. Sounds really good.

But what does all that really mean at the end of the day? So this story goes Back well before 2014. This is one of those golden girls moments, you know, picture it. Sicily 1943 [00:02:00] But in reality it actually kind of goes that far back I come from a long line of car enthusiasts grassroots Uh, mechanics, et cetera.

My dad wanted to be a race car driver when he was a kid, told stories about standing at the fences outside of Maranello, watching Nicky Lauda go around the test track. Right. So it’s been in the blood being Italian racing and soccer and formula one. It’s all, it’s all a passion, right? So it’s, it’s, it’s passed down through the genes, but our story, right.

You and I, Brad, our story starts in 1995.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. Yes. That is correct

Crew Chief Eric: for the listeners out there, right? The, the, the history of GTM starts. It’s that far back, right? 25 years ago, and we just celebrated our 25th or no, whatever it was. Yeah. 20th, uh, high school reunion or something like that. As it turns out the way they did things way back then, you know, the, besides the nuns were still wrapping us on the knuckles and everything else is they would place us in alphabetical order in class, depending on what classes you were in and what classes you were taking together.

So I forget it was like English [00:03:00] class or something. Brad happens to be the last name directly behind mine and sat behind me in class. And I met him basically my, you know, First day of school. He was, you were the jock, right? You’re the baseball player and all that, and I was the car nerd.

Crew Chief Brad: But, but correction, I wasn’t just the jock, and I actually never made it on any of the teams, the organized teams at school.

I apparently wasn’t good enough for various other reasons that I care not to get into at this time. But, I was a music geek too, so I Four years of a band at DeMatha and all that good stuff, but anyway, yeah, so Simple little correction there. I, I was a little bit of a jock, but not in height, not at the high school level, apparently wasn’t good enough.

Crew Chief Eric: My bad. Hey, there were three big clicks in our school. You were either an academic in the band or in sports, and I was in none of those. So, you know, I was, I was the kid sitting in front of you holding magazines. I’m reading it. Most of them in Italian too, that my grandfather would bring me. I remember we kind of started talking about cars and I think, Oh, I don’t remember if it [00:04:00] was my freshman year or sophomore year and my dad dropped me off.

In our 70 911 wide body and then you were like, so tell me about this car

Crew Chief Brad: That actually it wasn’t just one time either it happened all the time I don’t know if you forgot your homework at home if your your dog ate It was the excuse you were giving the teachers at the time. I I don’t know but 911 that sounded like, you know, a 7.

0 earthquake was hitting the earth and Yes, it was a beautiful car, and I was like, who the heck is that guy? Dropping off his kid’s homework.

Crew Chief Eric: But you could hear that car from two miles away, because it was straight piped. It was like going to Le Mans or something. It’s bonkers, right? But yeah, so it got a lot of attention.

So you and I got to talking about cars, and I was already a gearhead, right? I had been going to pro solos, been going to track events since I was a little, little kid. I mean, there’s pictures of my [00:05:00] mom. with me in a, in a stroller at a pro solo in Harrisburg. I mean, it’s like, you know, it goes that far back.

And like I said, it comes from a racing family, right? My dad was a pro solo, uh, autocrosser. He was an instructor, various clubs, you know, SCCA, the sports car club of America, PCA, the Porsche club of America, Audi club, et cetera. But even my mom was into it, right? She used to autocross my dad’s cars, the Chiracos, 914, stuff like that.

Back when there was ladies class, right? Way back in the 80s and stuff like that. So, like I said, it’s just in the family.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, and to touch on the ladies class real quick, just a little tangent, a little joke that we’ve got going on throughout the club. Uh, there’s a W series now also, so there’s still a ladies series, you know, this isn’t a new idea, you know, just a little shout out to some of our club members inside joke there.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Welcome back to 1982. Right. But, but with that being said, right, you know, we were primarily a Volkswagen Audi. Porsche family and very [00:06:00] heavily in the VW side of things. We’ve had a VW in the family consistently since the 1960s. And that goes early sixties. And that goes back to my grandparents. I grew up in the back of Mark one and Mark two Chiracos, and we never had anything stock in our house.

It was kind of funny. My mom had, I posted pictures of it on, on Instagram not long ago. She had a. Full zender kit, uh, pewter gray Chiraco, beautiful car. I mean, we had always the late, I want to say kind of the latest and greatest thing. My dad pre ordered a 16 valve. We had a Corrado. I mean, all these other cars, we’ve always been at that sort of thing.

So that again, it trickled down to me, trickled down to my sister as time progressed. We got out of actually, I started, I started autocrossing in high school, but you started just shortly after. And, or I guess we were doing it about then, but you were also into the, the land pirate stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, that didn’t start until 2000, 2001.

Uh, when I, after high school graduation, I started going to Montgomery college and met a couple of kids [00:07:00] and That’s when I started. I was always in the cars. I don’t know how because nobody else in my family is or was. I think my dad might have been back when he was 16 and he had an old AMC that he took to some guy’s house.

Oh boy. And they completely destroyed it. You know, you know, the apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree in that respect. But anyway, yeah, he, he was in the cars back then, but he grew out of it, got into pickup trucks and fishing. Uh, and all his money went into boats instead of. Instead of cars and everything.

I don’t know where I retained the desire to have cars and become a car enthusiast and all that stuff. But, yeah, in high school I was into cars. I never had any money, so I couldn’t afford anything cool. We never had anything cool when I was growing up except for an 80s box Chevy Caprice. Uh, with the 350 motor, that car was pretty, pretty legit.

And then, I don’t know, I started hanging out with these guys from college, uh, freshman year. They had cool cars. One had a 924S Porsche. Another guy had [00:08:00] a Thunderbird Super Coupe and he’s still in the car club. He’s got a couple other cool cars now, but I, in 2001, I bought my first brand new car. It was a 2001 GTI Volkswagen.

We do like Volkswagens here. That’s not the only cars that are part of the club. I want to make sure that I specify that, but we do like the Volkswagen, the VAG products. So I bought that. I. Don’t know why or how I ended up connecting with you again. Um, but I was looking for something to do with the car and we started hanging out again, started going to the Porsche club, autocrosses up at Fort Meade.

What was the Tifton airfield? Tifton airfield. Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: that was a great lot, man. It was, oh, good.

Crew Chief Brad: It lasted a couple months until. 9 11 happened. Yeah, that was really, they shut everything down. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so 2001, just after high school was when I started getting into the, the autocross stuff and then we kind of reconnected, kept going from there.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So by that point, if you remember, I also had a, so it’s kind of [00:09:00] backtracking a couple of years, my first car, man, I wanted a 16 valve GTI, some fierce, and to, and to. Credit where credit’s due. We had a lot of two door coupes, you know, throughout our lifetime. My dad was like, no boxes on wheels, right? He just, he hated the golf for some reason.

Like he just despised it. And I was always like, Oh, it must be the rebel in me. It’s like, he’s in love with the Scirocco. I got to have a GTI, right? I got to have the opposite of what he has, regardless of the fact that the same car underneath. But so I ended up after all that, there’s some stories there we can tell, but regardless, I ended up with that five cylinder Audi make a noise from here to God’s creation, like a, like a dragon with a dynamite up its butt.

If you remember, I was going to say, so the noise

Crew Chief Brad: definitely runs in the family. Apparently

Crew Chief Eric: there are no stock cars here. They’re all

Crew Chief Brad: except for your, except for the new Chrysler. That’s the

Crew Chief Eric: only stock the spaceship. Yeah. But, uh, so at any rate, I had that GT coupe and so I don’t know, [00:10:00] I always dive into everything like a thousand and 1%.

And so I got really attached to those cars because as we used to joke in the house, it’s just a fat Scirocco at the end of the day. Right. Uh, and it was penned by the same guy that designed the Scirocco, all that kind of stuff, bigger motor. It was a lot of, and they were a lot of fun. Great. Best handling car of 1986, according to some.

Pull out there. But, but at the time, if you think about it, that car was, you know, only 10 years old. And so it was like, ah, it’s pretty cheap, you know, whatever it can get it reliable five cylinder run forever. So I was on the, on the, on the quest, you know, to make it into something. And as you remember, you had your GTI, I was Otter crossing an Audi, but at the same token, kind of in the, you know, I was in the comp size side of things while you were playing.

saxophone or whatever. And I had gotten into web development, right? And early on, I mean, you’re talking the mid to late nineties. Nah, there weren’t a ton of people doing web development. It was still like a, a blossoming thing. So I had gotten involved in the [00:11:00] local clubs. I was, you know, doing a bunch of, uh, timing and scoring software for autocrosses, you know, for SCCA and PCA and stuff like that.

But I also got into the website. things. And so I started to learn kind of from the inside what it was like to run a car club, at least from the digital side of the house in the early days. So that got me thinking I’m overly obsessed with the, you know, with the GT coupe. And I bought my very first domain, which is grand touring.

org. It was off of some random guy that was cyber squatting with the domain. And I stood up a website called grand touring Audi. The deal with Grand Touring Audi was it was an online community for owners and enthusiasts worldwide. Yeah. It was mostly dudes from the UK on a bulletin board with a web, you know, kind of a wiki like thrown on top of it because I was trying to collect as much information about those cars as possible because they were so unique from year to year to year.

They just kept changing them for whatever reason I’d ran that. At the same time as I was running the Audi club, uh, the local Audi club website for the DC region. And then I was also picking up more, more [00:12:00] work and more work and more work like that along with everything I was doing. Ultimately, I ran that for about five years and then it merged, I merged it into a Potomac Chesapeake region of Audi club.

And some of the content actually still exists on that website today, because it’s just migrated so many times and change hands and, and things like that. And so at that point. I had focused my attention elsewhere. I was now working for Porsche national and doing their website. I dug that for a bunch of years.

And my dad at the same time was getting out of, uh, basically a very long career in it, he was a mainframe programmer and he wanted to go pursue his passion. And he ended up going to work for electromotive and a bunch of other stuff, and he’s, he decided that there was a space in the market to resell bad parts, right?

Volkswagen Audi group parts back then. During that time period ECS really wasn’t what it is today, right? It wasn’t as available. The internet was still doing its thing and e commerce still wasn’t there He wanted to stand up this company to be [00:13:00] able to do this kind of thing He came to me. He’s like I I need a name because I can’t just go out there and say hey, it’s It’s blah, blah, blah.

His company. And it’s like, okay, well, how about we just, you know, despite Rocco versus golf conversations, we had a common, uh, common focus on the Audi coupes, first and second generation cars. And so I said, well, GT grand touring, right? I’ve already, I just gave that up. Why don’t we take that and just put motor sports on the end of it?

So then that way it’s all encompassing, right? Because you are catering to. Pro solo guys, you know, local auto crossers, track rats, you know, the guys that just need parts for their cars.

Crew Chief Brad: And I believe at one point I even ended up buying some brake pads and stuff for this Audi S8 that I had. Yeah. So it’s just, yeah, you, he had the grand touring Audi.

He was able to hook a lot of people up with parts and everything. I don’t know how he was able to get, I guess, distributor rights or whatever he had. I don’t know

Crew Chief Eric: exactly. I don’t remember either, but I, but you know, times are different than, I mean, we’re talking [00:14:00] like 15 plus years ago at this point. So doing the resale side of the business, very different than it is today.

I mean, you know, trying to get, trying to get hooked up with ECS and Euro tuning and those guys today is a little bit more difficult and a little bit more challenging, at least for small guys like us, right. So fast forward a bunch of, a bunch of years and basically what we ended up doing and kind of spawned some of the early kind of the roots of GTM in a way is we used to do these like cart leagues and my dad would like try to organize them with me and we would have like 10, 15 plus guys come out and we would rent out like a facility or we’d go there and get all day passes and just basically take over the place.

Right. And then we would, you know, because I had a timing and scoring background, I’d keep track of all that kind of stuff. And we’d points and this and that, and then the top guys, we’d fly all over the country and go race and do that kind of thing. So we did that for a number of years and it was a lot of fun.

It’s a lot of wear and tear on my back though. As I started to do that, you know, autocross was fading in the DC area because parking [00:15:00] lots got harder and harder to rent. Now everybody kind of does their pilgrimage to FedEx field because it’s the only lot that doesn’t have telephone poles every six feet and islands and curbs and stuff.

And so My dad started to phase away from autocross and get into deeper and deeper into road racing and teaching and all that kind of stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: And I think it’s around that same time when you all stopped doing the autocrosses and things. I started transitioning. I had sold the GTI. I had it for a couple of years and ended up selling it, trading it in for a 99 Z28 Camaro that was to this day, it’s the fastest car I’ve ever owned, which isn’t really saying that much, but it was, it was really quick.

But I did maybe one or two autocrosses with it. And by that time, autocrossing was just hard to get into if you weren’t trying to do it with the SCCA sports car club of America. I was still trying to do it with Porsche club because your dad was still somewhat involved with it. And, but then I just transitioned over to drag racing and got out of autocross like you’re, like you’re [00:16:00] saying, cause it started winding down.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. So at the same time, my dad started getting really hyper focused. On crazy engine swaps, right? I mean, we’ve done some weird stuff. Probably one of the first people to do a twin spark three, six in a night 14. We did the Audi UR quattro with a three, six V8. We did an Audi coupe quattro second gen with a four, two S eight motor in it.

Like, and, and I’m in the process of doing, I’ve done some swaps myself, but it was, he always had this focus of building like the ultimate. Track weapon or the ultimate autocross weapon, right? And it was in and he had certain go to’s I mean the 914 was bonkers I mean the the last times I drove that thing With the 36 it was like you looked where you needed to be and you were past that point Ridiculous herculean effort to drive that car, you know, he he got away from that car a little bit I think it’s scared him.

He had a couple sideways moments in it that were very difficult to control. And so he hooked into the whole Audi thing, went deep, went back to his roots, right? That whole [00:17:00] bag thing. Unfortunately, in, oh, my sister would know better than me, but in 06, 07 timeframe. He was diagnosed with, uh, stage four brain cancer.

So during all that, we kind of tried to finish out a lot of the projects we had going. The last one being my UR Quattro, which I actually finished after he had passed away in 2010. Credible built. I don’t, I don’t want to do it again. A really cool car, big bummer, right? Because my dad was the type of guy over the years.

He, he amassed so many connections, so many relationships. I mean, His funeral is incredible. You would, all these guys from different car clubs came out and it’ll look like cars and coffee out in the parking lot. And it was, it was crazy. I mean, you, you would have thought a Senator had passed away or something.

There’s like, you know, 300 plus people. There’s, it was just bonkers. Right. And, uh, so at any rate that, you know, that takes a toll on you. You have to figure out how to grieve, how to go through all that kind of stuff. About a year passed and. I just was like, in a [00:18:00] funk, right? And I’m just like, I don’t know what to do.

It’s like racing doesn’t have the same appeal anymore. You know, autocross is gone. Karting, yeah, whatever. And finally my wife, uh, was like, you know what? You need to go do something. Yeah, because I didn’t have any projects, right? The project was the house or whatever. And basically she kind of kicked me in the butt and said, you know, get out, go do something.

And I’m like, are you really sure about this? In my infinite wisdom, I decided it was a genius idea. To take my highly modified Jetta diesel

To turn it into a to a diesel cup car. Yeah, it didn’t didn’t really go very well But

Crew Chief Brad: but I was gonna say they they do really well when they’ve got, you know factory backed mechanics and support and sponsorship and funds which you had none of those things. Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, yeah. And really bad ideas for what the good part should be.

Uh, I did have verified dino sheets, 320 foot [00:19:00] pounds at the front wheels. It was a hell of a motor. Uh, I will say though, it didn’t last, but half a season. Cause I blew it up at VIR at just shy of 140 miles an hour at red line. It wasn’t that good. The devil’s fuel does.

Crew Chief Brad: And the devil’s fuel still powers that car too.

It belongs to a GTM member to this day. I think it’s, it’s on what it’s third, fourth motor, something like that. I

Crew Chief Eric: can only, I can only claim the first one. Matthew will get on my case. One of the members of the group will get on my case from time to time about, uh, a diesel in the family since the mid nineties.

It’s just another weird obsession. I don’t think I can. I can never not have one. That being said, uh, Jess was like, get out of the house, go figure something out. I’m like, all right, all right, if you say so. So we went to the track, blew the car up, came home and I was like, man, this cannot get any worse.

Right? I’m like, well, this, this was a complete failure. Luckily, Matthew, who I mentioned, uh, just a couple of minutes ago, he calls me and he goes, uh, I got a car for you [00:20:00] with a weird pregnant pause. I’m like, Hmm, what exactly are we talking about here? He goes, well, you’re not going to like it. I’m like it.

Well, it’s a TT, and I’m like, ugh. And the reason he said that is because he knows how much my father despised those cars, right? And he had all sorts of terrible names for them, which is also why we call it the Terrible Toad, which is the cleanest of the nicknames he would give those cars. I was like, you know what?

The rebel is back! Dad hated him. I’m getting it. And I ended up picking it up for the mechanics lane. So it had a blown motor and had been sitting in the corner of a shop, single owner. It had been there for like three or four years, not running. Uh, Matthew was gracious enough to tow it all the way up from VIR to my house.

And then I started tearing it apart. We had that car. Track ready and I’ll put air quotes around that in 65 days from when it got towed up here to putting it on its first track day. And I borrowed a lot of the parts in the Jetta [00:21:00] and stuff like that. So that leads us to my first couple events. This was my now foray.

I’ve got a dedicated card stripped down. It’s, it’s this, it’s that. I’m ready to go. And so I’m, I’m starting to meet people. And this is circa. 2011.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, before we get into what happens next, I’ve got to rewind a little bit and talk about my, my progression a little bit too. From when we, we kind of split, I went the drag racing way.

You were still doing things and things that were happening with your father. So I was still in the drag racing, did a little bit of, uh, illegal street racing as well, which I’m not proud of. I do not recommend it to anybody, but it is a part of my past. So it is a part of when you kind of, makes me who I am.

Fast forward from 2000. Three, I think is when I bought the Camaro about two years, 2005 ish. I totaled the car. I was driving on some back roads and a truck pulling a horse trailer made a left turn over a blind hill in front of me. And I [00:22:00] rammed right into the back of the trailer. So if anybody wonders what my screen name that I use across all these different social platforms is, Mr.

Ed killed my Z, Mr. Ed, the horse, cause there was a horse trailer killed my Z 28. It’s very sad. It was one of

Crew Chief Eric: my favorite cars. The origin story within the origin story. You like that?

Crew Chief Brad: There you go. It’s the origin inception story.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, well, which level of hell are

Crew Chief Brad: we on now? I think we’re level three now.

But from that point I, I’ve had a 96 Cobra. I’ve bought a 2004 GTI BR6, which I wish I still had. It would have been a great track car. And various other cars and motorcycles. I think I’ve owned like 26 different vehicles in my life. And we’ll talk about that in another episode. That will be another episode.

That, that almost needs its own like series. But anyway, from that point on, I, I did some drag racing. I got into off roading with Jeeps and everything like that. Fast forward to about [00:23:00] 2000. 12 ish, I was working, I was going on a work trip to Omaha, Nebraska, and I didn’t know anything about Omaha, Nebraska, because who the hell goes in Nebraska.

So I put it on Facebook, you know, because everybody posts everything they do in their world on Facebook. Now, now it’s just boomers, which we we act like boomers now. So

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, that’s why we

Crew Chief Brad: still use Facebook. But anyway, so I didn’t know what to do. I was going for an entire week in Omaha, Nebraska, but I needed to find something to do other than go to this training class.

So I put on Facebook, I’m going to Omaha. What is there to do? And then my good buddy, Eric posted, well, I’m going to be there too. So we, um, we met up, uh, I think we were, yeah, it was Omaha. So it’s not too far from council bluff. I think you were staying in council. Correct. That is correct. He said steak, so he had my attention.

Of course, of course. Sidebar, Omaha steaks, if you get them in Omaha, overrated. The steak place wasn’t all that good.

Crew Chief Eric: [00:24:00] That’s very true. We can do better and we’ve done better.

Crew Chief Brad: But anyway, it was then that he was telling me about the car stuff that he was into and all this, you know, all the fun things. I had been really missing a car.

I mean, I had my Jeep, I was doing off roading and stuff, which was fun. But I missed doing something was a manual people. It was a manual. I’ll give you that both of the Wranglers that I had. I had a TJ and a JK and both have more manuals. So they’re fun in their own right. Yeah. I could get it to chirp tires and first and second gear, but I was looking to get back in the cars, like doing something fast, like autocross or whatever.

And so we started talking and we, we ended the dinner. We ended, you know, the trips or whatever. And we kept in touch. We. Ended up setting up a, what car should I buy email thread with a couple other people that Eric knew, which started, if you’re a member of the club or you, you know, anything about us, you know, the, what car should I buy?

Topic. is probably the most popular topic in GTM ever. Everybody’s [00:25:00] asking, what car should I buy? What should I do? Should I get this? Should I do that? The answer is never HHR, by the way. Just gonna say. There is no

Crew Chief Eric: blipshift t shirt that says the answer is

Crew Chief Brad: HHR. I don’t care how fast your little milkman grocery getter…

Can be made. It’s still an HHR, but I digress. So yeah, we set up this email thread and then that was going for about a year or so. Fast forward to 2003. I finally bought it by a car. No, 2013,

excuse me. Back to the future. We’re going back to the future. Yeah, absolutely. Next up he’s buying a DeLorean. 88 miles an hour. I bought this, uh, this Volkswagen and I started building it for track stuff. Thanks to my mechanic is fantastic. You know, Mr. Monasterio over there. And I ended up doing my first event with a bunch of other people that Eric knew from the tracking world.

Uh, it was may 2013. I think it was, it was with Porsche [00:26:00] club on Shenandoah circuit. And Tanya was there. I know she was, she had just bought her beetle, her first dedicated track car as well. Um, so a bunch of newbies coming out and it was just an awesome time. And, you know, I’ll let you take it from there, but that’s kind of, that brings us both up to this timeframe where we’re both tracking.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I was still in that weird, uh, I was still in that weird phase of, is it a track car? Is it a street car? And, you know, Matthew continues to remind me, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. So the big straw that broke the camel’s back was the first pilgrimage to mid Ohio. And Jess, we were, we were, you know, packed the car loaded, couldn’t see out the back, like all this stuff.

And, you know, Bucket fixed back seats on coilover suspension. And we’re trying to drive home, you know, eight hours from mid Ohio. And Jess is like, I don’t know that my tailbone exists anymore. You know what I mean? And at that point I knew it was over. I was, I was dedicated and you know, we were going to go off [00:27:00] the deep end, but that being said, I was still in this mode, right?

Post my dad passing where it’s like, I want to bring back that feeling of going to the track and being with my friends and all that kind of stuff that I grew up with and the clubs back in the day were very different than they are now. Now they’re, they’re very coin operated. You’re very much about, you know, the bottom dollar.

Don’t get me wrong. They provide a very professional and very legitimate service and everybody loves it. And that’s great. good. We’re, we’re very different, right? Our idea is family. Our idea is getting together. It’s prolonging the communication. It’s not about just keeping up the Joneses. You know, we’ll, we’ll talk a lot more about fellowship, uh, in the, in a future episode, but there’s a lot of that.

It’s more fraternal as one of our region chiefs in the Northeast. Harry likes to say all the time. It’s more like a fraternity, fraternity and sorority. We’re co ed here. Uh, I just want to point that out. Uh, and many of our ladies, by the way, they are very fast. They’re very talented. Uh, it pleasure to meet all of them.

If, if any of our listeners get to come out and do so, I [00:28:00] wanted to relive the past because I saw that there was something missing, right? I saw that the family aspect was gone. The get togethers, the communication, those monthly meetings, those board meetings, all those things I was involved in me, even as a kid, just they weren’t available anymore.

And so you and I got to talking about it. And I said, you know, we had the listserv going on, on good, good old Google groups. It was like, why don’t we just. Make a club. I already knew how to run a car club at least from a digital perspective And again, we’re sitting there Oddly enough and we’re fretting over what to call it and you and you just turn to me and go

Crew Chief Brad: Why

Crew Chief Eric: not grand touring motorsports boom done, right?

We’ve already got a name And we had a logo and we had a lot of other stuff stuff that we could leverage from my dad’s company, which had been shut down. There was actually already brand recognition there, at least in the, in the local area. So that was good. And people are like, Oh, that’s, that’s still a thing.

Can I still order oil filters for my, for my Gabrielle or what? Uh, but you know, that being said, that took us to really late, like you [00:29:00] said, it took us to late 2013. So like kind of the OG members, you know, me, you, Matt, Tanya and so on. We’re really all 2013 people, but we really, we say the first date is, you know, January of 2014.

Our first actual member non core group was like February of 14 is the first like application we ever got submitted in our first year. We grew pretty big. I mean, we had what, 15, 17 people, something like that within the first calendar year. And then we just kept growing. We’ll talk about where, where we’re going.

Uh, and where we are here in a minute

Crew Chief Brad: in addition to, you know, starting the club. Yeah, we were, I remember we were sitting in your living room. Uh interior at your house and Jess was there as well And we weren’t just kicking around the idea of a car club. We were kicking around the ideas of you know Maybe we should open a shop You know We talked about getting like an l shaped building Where part of the shop was like a museum to the cars and everything like that part of it is [00:30:00] You know people can come and work on their stuff somehow that morphed into let’s start a car club because as you were As it’ll probably, uh, mention later on here, people don’t like going to the track by themselves.

That was one of the big deterrents to me after my first time going in May, the previous year is I went to, yeah, it was a lot of fun when I went with everybody else. But then I started thinking about. Well, if I’m going to go to these other events, how am I going to coordinate and make sure other people are there that I like?

I don’t want to go and sit there by myself. I did a couple autocrosses by myself. That’s not really fun. That’s when we started talking about really, yes, let’s make this, let’s make this a big group. We can coordinate when everybody’s going to the tracks, what everybody’s doing, what everybody’s doing outside of the track.

Cause as you all, who are members of GTM know. You know, it’s not just, you know, track events. That’s not, that’s not what we’re all about. It’s we go to car shows, we go to swap meets, we go to movies. I mean, we do all kinds of stuff. It’s not just about the track and keeping in touch with these people. Yeah, they’re your track [00:31:00] friends, but they’re also Just friends.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. So now that we’ve kind of completed the birth of GTM, I’m gonna insert here for those of you that have fast forwarded the last, I don’t know, half hour or so you’re listening to GTMs podcast break fix with Brad and Eric. So now that we’ve kind of summarized the past, we’re going to talk about where we are and where we’re going.

Um, we’re going to do this maybe in a little bit of a question answer format and then talk again, talk about where we’re going to go from there.

Crew Chief Brad: So where are we going right now? As Eric said before, when we first started, we were probably three or four members. We’ve jumped in that first year to 15 to 20 over the last Five years from there, because we’re up, we’re up to year six.

Now we’ve got 70 members, 70 members strong. We’ve got a social media presence, um, that has been constantly growing. Thanks to our, uh, our marketing genius over there in the, uh, the other camera and, and we’re, we’re slowly bringing on more and more people. And [00:32:00] that’s 70 members net. I mean, we’ve had more members than that.

We’ve had some people leave on their own volition. We’ve had to. To boot a couple members for various things, um, which we’re not going to get into don’t ever ask us and it’s just yeah We’re we’re trying to grow but we don’t want to get too big. We don’t want to be uh a corner cravers or whatever some of those other clark clubs were that got too big for their britches and Ended up dissolving for for various reasons We we want to very much still keep the same kind of family feel that the friends one of my favorite quotes is Friends are the family you choose Uh, we still want to keep that kind of atmosphere, but we do want to grow.

Um, we want to get a bigger presence, even larger than ours, than we are now, uh, on Instagram and social medias. I mean, that’s why we’re doing the podcast here to, to kind of give everybody some insight, give some, give people a way to connect with us, not just at the track. I mean, this is another. Uh, another way that other [00:33:00] people can, can talk to us and find out more about us.

Uh, and so that’s kind of where I see us going.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. So, I mean, I think we’ve done a really good job of over the years. Like we’re, we’re unlike a lot of other organizations that just kind of do the same thing because that’s what they’ve always done. I think we’re always experimenting. We’re always. Trying something new and we either, we either win it or we kill it.

And that’s how it’s kind of, that’s how it goes. Right. But we’re always looking forward. Uh, and as the Italians say, right, sempre avanti, which means always forward. We’re always looking in that direction to try to improve. And sometimes, you know, we stumble, but we gotta, we always walk before we run. And so I think in this case, you know, you’re talking about growth.

We look at the numbers, we look at the trends, we’ve had people move away. That’s another big thing we have. Some members that tried to hang on and they were living as far out as Hawaii, right? And, and that’s tough to do, but they want to stay plugged in. They want to know what’s going on in the community.

And the difference is, you know, for us, it’s, it’s more grassroots, [00:34:00] right? There is, there are certain things like grassroots motor sports out there, but it’s still very publicized. It’s very marketing heavy. We, you know, we try to be advertisement free. We try to do a lot of other things. To keep it, you know, home grown, like the clubs used to be in the old days.

Crew Chief Brad: And by advertisement free, we don’t mean that we’re not like marketing and advertising ourselves. We mean that we’re, we’re not out there trying to get other clubs or businesses or stuff to advertise and kind of flood our membership because we have an asset. Our members are our biggest asset. Not me, not Eric, not the cars.

And it’s, it’s our membership. They’re, they’re the ones that make us who we are. And I mean, many people joke that we have the coaches union. We’ve got the North, the Northeastern, uh, coaches union or instructor union, uh, for the track days. We, we do market ourselves, but we don’t sell advertising space within the club.

That’s

Crew Chief Eric: true. And that being said, so talking about growth, we’re set up for the future. We’re broken into different regions. I mentioned that at the beginning, uh, you and I started in the DMV. The [00:35:00] DMV is home. We have a very large northeast contingent, which is our, you know, Pennsylvania, you know, Philly northwards, all the way up to Boston.

And then we have our mountain region, which actually follows the Appalachian. Trail there. And then we have our Southern states, which is everything from, you know, Richmond to Texas, basically. Um, there is a fifth kind of hidden region in there, which, because we do have members, you know, as far out as Colorado and Michigan and family members, you know, stuff like that.

And so, you know, but everybody’s connected. I never feel like when I’m talking to somebody that’s out in the middle of nowhere, it’s not like I didn’t just With that being said, we’re, we’re positioned to grow. We’re positioned to have the same size in every region, if not larger in some respects, and we, we accredit that to our region chiefs and they’re fantastic people.

They devote a lot of their time to organizing the events that we put on, you know, being the sounding board for some of the crazy ideas that you and I have. But, you know, a lot of them have taken over some of the special events that we have, be it, [00:36:00] you know, mountain region doing summer bash, which is our big annual, uh, family reunion, uh, that we’ve been doing for six years.

Now we’ve got things like the animal house of the Northeast region does as our season finale up at Watkins Glen and other events, just like that. Now, when we talk about events. for GTM. Like what kind of events do we put on? We don’t really put on competitive events, right? That’s the big misnomer. We’re not here to put on a track day or an autocross or whatever, but we are here to support.

If you’re, if you’re one of those organizers out there listening, we are here to support you. And that’s why Brad made that joke about the coaches union. It’s very common for, for me or Brad to get a phone call to say, Hey, I need like 10 guys. Cause we’re short on coaches. Uh, how many do you think you can drum up?

All right, let me make three phone calls and a couple mass messages over slack and we’re good to go. But outside of that, we’ll come and help out. We’ll promote the events. We’ll, we’ll do cross pollination. We’ve done that with, with HOD or hooked on driving. Well, we’ve done that with the Corvette club, various other organizations where we try to [00:37:00] go in.

And support them, be their staff, you know, help them as much as we can bring things, support, sponsor them, dinners, barbecues, you know, whatever it might be, because again, there’s that void. There’s that piece that’s missing where it’s like, we’re putting on, we’re not putting on a big show, but we’re making it super inviting that people want to come party with us.

I mean, that’s why our pit race event is, is a fun one, right? Paddock party at pit race. I got to say it’s really hard to say Um, so say that three times fast, but uh, but that’s a fun one, right? Like this year we did we were going to do the volleyball tournament, you know stuff like that It keeps people around but instead what we ended up doing was a intramural Hod versus uh gtm karting event.

This would be our second one Now our third one actually got postponed. We got to schedule it again, but we do fun Stuff like that. You know, those are our types of events, right? Going to pro races together, like Salins or flying out to go to the Formula One race at Coda or the cannonball runs that the Southern States region organizes for us, right?

We’ve done things like going to road Atlanta together. [00:38:00] We’ve gone to NCM where we were planning on going to Indianapolis, places like that. We’ve done mid Ohio and pit race back to back, you know, that was a long haul. Went to Barber last year. That was really big. I was, that was a bucket list for a lot of us, but, uh, you know, stuff like that.

So it’s all about that group. It’s all about inclusion. It’s all about, you know, uh, doing that. And to that effect, one of our, our mountain region chief, he and I were talking about this yesterday. So this is Dan mountain man, Dan, which many of you have either know, or we’ll get to know very well in upcoming episodes, but he was telling me, you know, as a former vet and we do, it’s kind of funny, we have an interesting demographic in the club.

There are a lot of it guys. And there are a lot of DoD, you know, former military folks or the combination of the two. But one of the things that Dan said is the fellowship within GTM is huge. We’re always looking out for each other. It’s none of this like, you know, pissing contest, keeping up with the Joneses.

You got that part. I got to have that part too. My car’s got to be better. It’s none of that kind of thing. It’s very much more social. It’s very much more family oriented. Like you said, he’s [00:39:00] one of the things he wanted me to. point out, which is very important and, and he’ll talk about it more in a following a follow up episode.

It’s very, for him, it feels very much like the military and don’t get me wrong. It’s not the discipline and the order, and we’re making you do pushups in the parking lot. What it is, is it’s that sense of brotherhood and that sense of fraternity and that sense of family. And so, you know, transitioning out of the military, we have picked up a lot of folks and for them, they’ve said the same thing to us.

You know, this is now kind of my new. My new platoon, my new, you know, my new group. And so that’s, that’s been really important for, for them. And I appreciate that. And we give back every year, we try to do some sort of charity event. We we’ve done helmets off to heroes year after year, you know, that’s, that’s for wounded warriors and those types of things, and those are fantastic events.

And we love doing stuff like that.

Crew Chief Brad: And in talking about the events that we do, some of the services, the philanthropic events that we hold, we’ve done a car care clinic for high schoolers. Um, we have [00:40:00] many of our club members volunteered and came and taught, you know, some high schoolers just general maintenance of their vehicle.

What to look for. I mean, these kids are 16 years old starting to drive for the first time. I’m sure Eric has probably been there. I’ve been there stuck on the side of the road at some point not knowing what to do. Well, Eric probably knew what to do because he’s been, he came, he came out with a, with a 10 millimeter wrench in his hand.

Crew Chief Eric: I lost it though. It’s in the woods at dance house.

Crew Chief Brad: Probably. But yeah, so I, I didn’t know how to do any of that stuff when I was in that age. So the, the idea was to teach these kids. You know how to change their oil where where the oil goes into the motor something as basic as that There are so many people out there in the world driving around in these Machines that they have no idea how to keep them running That was one of the things that we did.

We had a golf tournament. We donated all the funds from that Um, to a charity that’s very special to, uh, to people within our organization. Um, we’re, we’re building a, a driver’s university kind of thing for standardizing, uh, coaching [00:41:00] materials to bring up coaches from within our organization, growing our coaches union.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. We’ve been complimented many times. You know, we, we, you know, it’s kind of funny, like I said, took the same approach that my dad did when I started to learn how to drive. He’s like, just because you got your license doesn’t mean you’ve passed my test, you know what I mean? And so we’ve been working on the whole education aspect of GTM since the very beginning.

I mean, we’ll, we’ll probably talk about this on another episode, but some of the guys that we’ve brought through. I mean, we’ve gotten compliments on how awesome they are and they’ll go through a certification school like SCCA and they’ll just blow through it with falling colors because it’s like we’ve thrown so many things at them, you know, over, over the period of a season that they’re like, I’m ready for whatever you can, whatever you can give me.

But you know, that’s just part of it. Right. So education is big for me. It’s a soft spot. spot for me. I’m a student of history. I like doing the research and all that and dive in deep into things. But I also like sharing that knowledge with other people, not just our members. But if you look at the numbers on our website, we have recurring people coming back to read our articles [00:42:00] and we’re reviewing stuff.

That’s not just about, Oh yeah, the latest IndyCar race, this happened and you know, Lando ran into so and so and I racing and it was a big kerfuffle. Somebody is already covering that. Right. So we’re trying to cover other stuff that may not be as in plain sight. I got to give a big shout out to our writing team.

We got eight of our members that write for us consistently and just the stuff they’re putting out. It’s really, really good. And it’s, it’s tough sometimes to come up with new and creative things.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. And I was just going to add on to that. Some of the articles that we’ve written, I mean, we’ve got articles about, uh, what to expect at your first track, your first track day.

And, you know, what didn’t I know that I wish I knew then, uh, we’ve got articles about track insurance, you know, a review on some of the track insurance companies out there. We’ve got some, some. Guys that are really heavy into nutrition and they wrote articles. It was a two part series on nutrition at the track and how to keep from getting that tracking over that we’ve all suffered from more times than we’d like to admit.

So yeah, we’ve got different, different experience. From within the club that [00:43:00] lends itself to, to giving the club a different perspective and a different voice.

Crew Chief Eric: And so I want to, you know, and the listeners have been kind of putting up with us now for probably 40 minutes or so. But I got to say this, we use the word track a lot.

Please don’t take it the wrong way. Track is one of these like general words because so is motorsport, right? At least in our community. For us, when we say the track, we’re talking an autocross track, a go kart track, a drag race, uh, track, right? Whatever it might be, motorsport is all encompassing. It has different disciplines in it, be it rally, be it autocross, or you know, road racing, whatever it is, boating, airplanes, anything with a motor and a way to To steer it is motorsport, right?

As far as, as far as we’re concerned. So when we use the word track, full disclaimer, that’s a generalization. So that could apply to you as a drag racer. It could apply to you as a cart racer, autocross or whatever. So just, you know, we set that up in the beginning, but I want to remind everybody again, that that’s important to us, that we are inclusive of all disciplines.

It’s not just, you know, going [00:44:00] around, making a left turn.

Crew Chief Brad: And it doesn’t just mean four wheels either. It could be two wheels. It could be one wheel. Uh, it could be no wheels if you’re in the boats and things like that. Three wheelers. You could have a trike or a three wheeler. Yeah. If it’s got a motor, as he said, it doesn’t matter how many wheels you’ve got.

We all want to hear about it. I mean, we’ve got people in the club that are even into RC racing. That’s got people that race or used to race motorcycles out on the West coast. I mean, it’s endless. You know, the, the things that we are into in this club.

Crew Chief Eric: On the road, off the road, on the water, it doesn’t matter.

It’s all the same. So with that being said, a couple other special things just to talk about just before we get into the future and where we’re going, special things about GTM. We do our annual awards night. Uh, it actually started as a, as a joke because of your birthday, we would do it at BIR in November.

I hate to say while Audi club was doing their awards banquet, we were doing ours. But, and then it’s, it’s become a long standing tradition. Go

Crew Chief Brad: ahead. Yeah, and a little bit of history on Awards Night. It [00:45:00] started out as a joke, as Eric said, like the Dundies from The Office. A hundred percent. If you’ve ever seen the show.

And actually, the very first award ever given is the, uh, the DE Champion of the Year Award, which went to our very own Eric Montgomery Stanley right there. Yours truly, yeah. Yeah, and then the next year It was rigged, people. The voting was rigged. Yes, the voting was rigged. There was one person voting, and he happened to be the one who bought the trophy.

But the next year was just as ridiculous. It was at Hooters and they got, they had me stand up and do the cluck cluck dance with the Hooters girls that I will never forget or live down in the club.

Crew Chief Eric: We picked up a new member that night who happens to be one of our region chiefs. So everything happens for a reason.

But now awards night, like everything we do, it’s full send and it gets more ridiculous every year. I mean, last, if you guys. Uh, go back into the vault, uh, or if you’re, we’ll talk about this at the end of the segment. Uh, if you’re part of Patreon, you can get access to our, uh, behind the scenes award night recordings and stuff [00:46:00] like that.

Last year was just absolutely bonkers. It was a lot of fun. Uh, we did, we did tease some of the things that are coming. for the next couple of years, uh, in that. So, uh, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. But, uh, awards night is a big deal. The other thing, you know, we, we started out doing fantasy football stuff early on.

Family events like picnics and, you know, car shows and whatnot. But one of the other big ones for us was, uh, Virtual Racing League, the VRL. Which we’ll probably talk about in, in another episode. But VRL was really big for us. It was actually a very good recruit. Granted, we’re not doing iRacing. Nobody’s buying 20, 000 rigs.

Don’t get excited. We’re just playing Forza, but we do have a fully automated computerized timing and scoring system. So, you know, whatever it is legit. I’m in it for the points. I don’t know about you. There’s some really good stories there, but we’ve picked up some members over the years through that system and we’ve kept them and they come back.

Uh, we have the Forza survivor or For people getting punished, but you know, it’s it that’s, that’s what it is in a [00:47:00] nutshell, right? It’s a lot of fun. It’s bringing people in showing the other side of what a car code can be It’s not getting together on a saturday night behind the dairy queen and showing off all your chrome

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, and that’s why we do this at the end of the day.

It’s for fun. All of this is for fun. I mean, all the yes, there’s going to be some some gentle ribbing and you know, talking trash and things like that. But at the end of the day, it’s all about fun. If you’re not having fun, then what’s the point of doing it? And we all in GTM have fun and we all love it.

Love going to the events and doing the, the, the different things that we do in the club. And even just us being the ones that put it on us and the crew chiefs and the different committees and stuff that we have, we do it because it’s fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. Or it’s the constant source of caffeine and fuel provided by monster, uh, hurry, Haribo, gummy bears, and a fig Newton’s just, just like, no, that’s.

Typical gtm diet

Crew Chief Brad: the and the official drink of gtm used to be the white russian, but now it’s graduated To jaeger and monster. [00:48:00]

Crew Chief Eric: That’s true. The jaeger monster is pretty nice. Thank you. Sam. We I curse you

But no, I mean again all all in good fun all in good spirits and what we’re gonna do You know allow us to talk about the future. So the podcast right we’ve been we have been talking about this for probably two years and we’ve We finally are now talking to you instead of talking to ourselves about it.

We have a lot of good material out there. We have a lot of stuff that really gets left on the cutting room floor when it comes to our articles, where we could really expand, go dive deeper. We’ve got some really passionate members that want to share their stories with you, just like we said in our, our mission statement.

I’ve got some stuff I want to go deep in with, we’ve got some really cool debates like what should I buy and things like that, where we can, it’s going to be chaotic, but it’s going to be a lot of fun. fun and we hope that you’re going to enjoy that too. So that’s the podcast side of things. Obviously we’ve been, we’ve been blowing out Instagram.

We’ve been trying to, you know, trend our own hashtags like GTM spicy Italians and GTM francais and a bunch of other ones that we [00:49:00] have, and those have been really good for us and we’re trying to bring something unique, right? It’s not the same picture of the orange Lamborghini that they had on Jalopnik that was on car and driver that was wherever.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, you can only see so many pictures of a silver GTI with 666 all over it or a black TT before you unsubscribe.

Crew Chief Eric: But I can post stuff from like 1957 that nobody’s seen before, like a Renault Dauphine and it’s people, what is that? And we get like You know, 93, 000 likes, but, uh, but that’s the whole idea.

Something new, something different, something interesting, a breath of fresh air. The, when we plan out our years, we usually start in the winter time and we meet quarterly and go through all that kind of stuff. Not to give you all the dirty details there, but some events are very variable. And so summer bash is always bigger and badder and more chaotic, and it keeps getting bigger and more people keep coming out.

We tend to take over the track and it’s, it’s a lot of fun. And we do, we’ve only done one summer bash outside of maybe this year, thanks to COVID that wasn’t at a [00:50:00] track. And the reason we do it at a track is we don’t have a problem with parking. There’s plenty of spectator, you know, space, no admission fees.

You can have a lot of fun. You can ride along with a lot of us that are coaches and go for a thrill ride. They do parade labs, all sorts of, you know, we try to get you excited about motorsport and that’s an easy way for us. do it. And that event is a lot of fun and it is a very family friendly event. The cannonball run, like I said, this year, that the top three were Indianapolis, GP circuit, uh, club motor sport.

And we were going to try to go back to NCM. So we hadn’t really decided yet. And thanks to COVID, we still haven’t made a decision. So the cannonball run is still up for grabs. Uh, the way we figured that out, just so you guys know, uh, we’re, we’re super scientific about it. We, we basically draw a line from the Washington monument, 12 hours out.

And then take a protractor and just kind of go around in a circle and whatever track fits in that radius. We try to go as far as we can. There’s been some talk about going to Road America. There’s been some talk to really starting to stretch our legs because once you’ve done 700 miles, what’s another [00:51:00] 150 at that point?

It really doesn’t matter. And that would really get us more connected, especially with our members of the Michigan and stuff like that, that are really big fans of that track. And it’s a bucket list for me, too. I want to do it. Now, granted, there’s the crazy, we’re going to… Put all the cars on a car trailer and go to Laguna Seca, but, you know, My, my personal dream

Crew Chief Brad: right there.

Laguna Seca and to put all the cars on a boat and drive Rans Hatch.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, a hundred

Crew Chief Brad: percent.

Crew Chief Eric: Koda is still being talked about. Uh, it’s doable, but

Crew Chief Brad: I need about 500 more horsepower to do Koda.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. That’s, that’s the big problem, but it would be a lot of fun to say, Hey, I drove that track. There are some bucket list motorsports races to go to that we haven’t seen that we’d want to do.

A bunch of us used to do F1 when it was in Indy, been to Global Rallycross. I’m a big Group B fan. We can talk about that for a whole nother episode. Probably one of the few people to WRC in this club. Obviously going to Salins last year was a blast. You got behind the. scenes. We can talk about that another [00:52:00] time.

But one of the big ones, one of the big things that’s coming, the big cannonball 2023. Right. I’m not trying to put this too far out into the universe. We’re going to Le Mans. No, we’re not campaigning our own car. The plan is to go as a group. What

Crew Chief Brad: class would we even be in if we campaigned our own car? It would be Le Mans, LGT turd.

Crew Chief Eric: With a 1. 6 Viotta going around. We’d have the slowest lap on record at Le Mans.

Crew Chief Brad: Lots of bum drafting. A

Crew Chief Eric: hundred percent. I was right on his tail. I can hear him. I was right on his tail. But, uh, that being said, uh, the plan is to go to 23. The reason 23 is special is it’s the hundredth anniversary of Le Mans.

Not necessarily the hundredth running of Le Mans, but the hundredth anniversary. So for that, for, for a bunch of us, that’s special. We’ve always wanted to do it. Every time we ask, where should we go? Somebody stands up and goes, [00:53:00] LeBron’s! I mean, they’ve been saying it for six years, right? So we’re gonna do it.

I don’t know. The future is still unwritten. That’s the best part, right? And we do it all just, it’s like, send it. Let’s go. Let’s just, let’s just go do it. So

Crew Chief Brad: I’m going to throw this out then. What do our listeners want to do? What do they want to see in the future? You know, at the end of this, you’re going to get our contact information.

If you don’t already have it. Um, some of you, if you’re members, you’re in Slack and stuff. Let us know what you want. What do you want? Where do you want the club to go? Give us suggestions. What don’t you like that we’re doing? What do you like that we’re doing? You know, what do you want to see from Grand Touring Motorsports?

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think we covered quite a bit in our first episode. This is pretty good. Hopefully we didn’t put anybody to sleep. If we did, you know, market that, it’s good stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So Brad, any final, any final thoughts

Crew Chief Brad: before we really wrap it up? Uh, no, I, I’m, I’m happy to be doing this. I’m glad I’ve been talking about doing a podcast for a couple years now.

I’m glad I finally, we finally got off our butts and started [00:54:00] doing it. I know it’s, I know it’s all been my fault, but, you know, I’ve had some things going on that… Precluded me from being able to do it, but now here we are. Uh, so like I’m excited and curious to see where it leads.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. All right, my friends.

Well, I think that about wraps up episode number one. So with that, peace, peace.

So there you have it. He broke it. I fixed it until next time. Always remember if you can take it apart without breaking it, you can surely fix it. For all of us at GTM, Merry Motoring.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out at www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.

Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at [00:55:00] gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey listeners, Crew Chief Eric here. Do you like what you’ve seen, heard, and read from GTM? Great, so do we, and we have a lot of fun doing it.

But please remember, we’re fueled by volunteers and remain a no annual fee organization. But we still need help to keep the momentum going. So that we can continue to record, write, edit, and broadcast all of your favorite content. So be sure to visit www. patreon. com forward slash gtmotorsports or visit our website and click in the top right corner on the support and donate to learn how you can help.

Learn more about us on these crossover episodes!

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Checkout the Unaired Pilot


LEARN HOW YOU CAN BE ON THE SHOW

We hope you enjoy it, like and subscribe. If you’re want us to cover a specific topic or would like to be a guest on the show, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us at crewchief@gtmotorsports.org – And a special thank you to all the members who’ve already recorded with us, and helped get this podcast off the ground.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING A PART OF GTM 

Whether you’re a full time member, a friend or just a fan. We appreciate everything you’ve done to make GTM what it is today. Without folks like YOU, none of this would be possible! From all of us at GTM HQ, we hope to see you all very soon. #togetheragainsoon. Please stay in touch, and stay safe out there.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Did someone say: Street Racing?

By definition “a street race is a Motorsport racing circuit composed of temporarily closed-off public roads of a city, town or village, used in motor races. Facilities such as the paddock, pit boxes, fences and grandstands are usually placed temporarily and removed soon after the race is over but in modern times the pits, race control and main grandstands are sometimes permanently constructed in the area. Since the track surface is originally planned for normal speeds, race drivers often find street circuits bumpy and lacking grip. Run-off areas may be non-existent, which makes driving mistakes more expensive than in purpose-built circuits with wider run-off areas.”Alrighty… thanks Wikipedia, for that very thorough explanation.

Unlike the “illegal street racing” akin to the Fast and the Furious (above), racing through streets in the early days of Motorsport was very common. Outside of factory test tracks like Ehra-Lessien, Avus in Berlin (which btw, also happens to be composed of public streets) and others; there wasn’t much in the way of “formal race tracks” so it makes sense that the only option for racing was what we consider today: a Time-Distance Rallye … until places like Monza, Indianapolis and Brooklands were built.

Since the heart of early motor racing (as we learned through French Appreciation Week) is centered in Europe, it was up to them to set the stage (rallye pun, intended). Early street racing evolved quickly from racing around towns, to city-to-city endurance races like the Targa Florio (above:left), the Carrera-Panamericana (above:center) and the Mille Miglia (above:right). The next step was to utilize longer stretches of road creating a lap around an area so that fans could gather and see the cars pass by more than just once. This idea gave way to the Monte Carlo Grand Prix, LeMans and the Nurburgring. We still see some use of public roads for point-to-point racing today with events like: Pikes Peak and the Isle of Mann TT. But what we’re really interested in are “the circuits.” 


Monaco

Probably one of the most famous street circuits, the Grand Prix de Monaco is now aligned primarily with Formula One and held annually on the streets of Monaco on the last weekend in May. Run since 1929, it is widely considered to be one of the most important and prestigious automobile races in the world and is one of the races (along with the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Le Mans) that form “the Triple Crown of Motorsport.”

As you can see from the video above, on-board with Senna, at the 1990 Monaco GP  the race is held on a narrow course laid out using the streets along the coast, with many elevation changes and tight corners as well as a tunnel, making it one of the most demanding tracks in Formula 1. In spite of the relatively low average speeds, the Monaco circuit is a dangerous place to race. Note: If the video above did not load: click here.


Le Mans

The 24 Heures du Mans is the world’s oldest active endurance race, it has been held annually since 1923 near the town of Le Mans, France. Nicknamed the “Grand Prix of Endurance and Efficiency,”  the circuit on which the 24 Hours of Le Mans is run, is officially known as the Circuit de la Sarthe – but many of us just refer to it as “LeMans.” – Watching the on-board footage from 1956 (below), where Jaguar team driver Mike Hawthorn records a lap of la Sarthe, you’ll see just how “street” LeMans really was compared to the race we know today.

LeMans has been extensively modified over the decades. Originally the circuit entered the town of Le Mans, but the track was cut short in order to better protect spectators. Mostly for safety reasons, la Sarthe clocks in at a healthy 8.47 miles and consists of both permanent track and public roads that are temporarily closed for the race.


Bathurst

The Bathurst 1000 (aka “the 12 hours of Bathurst”) is a 1,000-kilometre (620 mi) touring car race held annually since 1963 on the Mount Panorama Circuit better known to most of us as just “Bathurst” because of its location in Bathurst, New South Wales, Australia. The 12 hrs of Bathurst is widely regarded as the pinnacle of Motorsport in Australia, and is locally known as The Great Race among Motorsport fans and media. As you can see from members Mike C and Chrissy C video below, (from their trip to Australia in 2019), the track may seem like a dedicated facility on TV, but in reality… its just public roads.


The Nürburgring

More affectionately known as “The Ring” in many circles, originally the track featured various configurations: the 17.56 mile long Gesamtstrecke (Whole Course) was cut down to the 14.17 mile Nordschleife (North Loop, the one we all know/love), loosing the 4.81 mile Südschleife (South Loop), 1.42 miles warm-up loop called Zielschleife (Finish Loop) and the Betonschleife (Concrete Loop).

In 1982, the start/finish was remodeled to create the GP-Strecke (Nürburgring GP Circuit) which is used for major and international racing events. You can search the internet for “laps of the Ring” but nothing beats the Sabine Schmitz lap in a Transit van from Top Gear (above).

The Nordschleife is still used for racing (like the 24 hrs of the Ring usually held 1 week after LeMans), but its still considered a one-way public TOLL road, with many people lapping and testing every day. Below: Members Mike C and Chrissy C driving their BMW 1-series through the Karussel at The Ring.


Long Beach

The Grand Prix of Long Beach has been used for IMSA, SCCA TransAm, IndyCar and other series racing since 1975 on the streets of Long Beach in Southern California. The Long Beach Grand Prix is actually the longest running major street race held in North America. Below, Joey Hand in the No. 66 Ford Chip Ganassi Racing Ford GT talks us through a lap around the famous Long Beach street circuit.

Long Beach was even used as a Formula 1 race in 1976!  – It was considered the premier race on the IndyCar (CART/Champ) calendar from 1996 to 2008 and is one of the longest continuously-running events on the IndyCar schedule and is still considered one of the most prestigious events of the season. If you’re ever on a visit to Southern California, make sure you map a trip to Long Beach to check out the circuit and drive the entirety of the track via the public roads, its pretty cool!


Detroit (Belle Isle)

In 1982, the U.S. became the first and only country to host three World Championship Grands Prix in one season. In addition to the United States Grand Prix West (Long Beach) and the Las Vegas races, a new event was held in Detroit, Michigan on a street course encompassing General Motors HQ and Renaissance Center. To get a feel for Belle Isle, lets take a moment and watch (below) a few record breaking laps around the circuit with Graham Rahal!

The original circuit had seventeen corners in 2.49 miles, including two very tricky hairpins and a tunnel that enclosed a gentle right-hand bend next to the river, which proved to be even slower than Monaco. The race soon gained a reputation for being horrendously demanding and grueling, very bumpy, and often breaking up badly under the consistently hot and very humid weather; it was perhaps the single hardest race for a car and driver in the IndyCar series.


Baltimore Grand Prix

For those of us at GTM that live in the DMV (Washington DC, Maryland and Virginia area), the Grand Prix of Baltimore hit very close to home. The Baltimore GP is considered one of the newest “street races” in North America and was held from 2011-2013. The circuit was developed using the streets of downtown Baltimore, Maryland circling the area around Camden Yards (home of the Orioles baseball team), the Baltimore Convention Center in the area better known to us as “the inner harbor.” – Watching the video below taken from Team Corvette, gives you a good idea of how the circuit flowed, including a pit-stop.

The Baltimore GP was used primarily for IndyCar and IMSA racing. The inaugural race was held on September 4, 2011 and ESPN said it was the best inaugural street race in North America in the last 30 years. Unfortunately, the Baltimore GP was short lived and received with mixed feelings every year: sighting issues with residents, street surfaces, course layout, funding, etc – proving that in some cases, street circuits aren’t always “the best idea.”


Honorable Mentions

During our research the list of street circuits was surprisingly long, and Wikipedia keeps a rather detailed list of all of them. But if you want to learn more, here are some others you may have heard of and should peak your interest:


For most of us, traditional “road courses” are the preferred venue for racing. Street racing however, does provide a change in scenery, gets the action close to home, and definitely ups the risk factor #sendit. But we’ll leave you with one final thought … many might think that Street Circuits are a dying breed, but unfortunately, they would be wrong. Had it not been for the worldwide COVID-19 pandemic, April 2020 was supposed to launch the debut of the Formula 1: Grand Prix of Vietnam, set on the streets of Hanoi – check out the video below, to learn more. Note: If the video below did not load: click here.

Have you ever gone to a street race? Which ones? What was your experience? Comment below! #neverstoplearning

Like what you're reading? We rely on your financial support. For as little as $2.50, you can support Gran Touring Motorsports by becoming a Patron today.  Become a Patron!

Rust Valley Restorers – Season 2

1

Rust Valley Restorers (RVR) follows Rust Bros owner Mike Hall’s attempt to restore and sell the over 400 cars he’s amassed over his lifetime. The show takes place on-site at Mike’s property along the Trans-Canada highway in whats known as “rust valley” nestled in the Rocky Mountains region of central British Columbia.

At 63 years old, Mike Hall (cover photo:right) with the help of his son Connor Hall (cover photo:left) and best friend Avery Shoaf (cover photo:center/rear) has decided he needs to thin the herd of classic/muscles cars which he calls his “metallic hallucinations” from his “field of dreams” (above:right) – a task that is nearly at a point of costing him more than its worth. “It’s bad for business, but good for my soul” – Mike says.

As you might recall we spoke briefly about RVR back in our Top RUSToration shows you show watch review last year. Season-1 was unlike any of the other shows on the list, in the sense that it is a diamond in the rough (to say the least)… but that’s all part of it’s charm. #letterkenny #howareyanow? #eh?


The #50yardlooker

We’ve actually been anxiously awaiting RVR’s return… and on May 8th, Netflix in partnership with History Channel Canada released Season-2 for our enjoyment! Season-2 pickups up right where we left off last year, but with a slight change. The mantra of “saving the business at all costs” isn’t as ever-present as it was in Season-1. It is now replaced with the idea of “restoring cars that the average person can afford” and the 42-minute documentary/reality TV format starts to take on a “personal build”  (for a customer) along with a “shop build” (which will be flipped to pay the bills) rhythm. One other change comes in the re-organization of the business, Avery has been brought on full-time and promoted to shop manager (over Connor); in charge of projects, parts and purchasing.

The Projects


It was a one-eyed, one-horned, flyin’ purple Parisienne… 

Before imageAfter image

The 1966 Pontiac Parisienne was a challenging multi-episode build. Clint Wilson – bassist for the band Fusionstein – wanted his Parisienne ready in time for a photo-shoot for the bands newest album Purple Pontiac debut. The Parisienne might look familiar at first glance – it really resembles the Tempest/GTO – but it’s actually a Canadian-only car, built on an Impala chassis. As you can see from the picture (above:left) the Parisienne was in deep trouble. The team estimated 300-400+ man hours and $50k to get the project done within the 60-day deadline. In the end (as seen above:right), the Parisienne turned out better than expected and is a complete “sleeper” with a 6.2-litre LS swap and Tremec T56 6-speed tucked under the hood. And in typical RVR style, Mike traded the final product for $25k and a ready-to-sell ’57 GMC long box pickup.

Before imageAfter image

(above:left) A 1926 Ford Model-T roadster-pickup found in a barn on Avery’s mom’s farm during a field-trip to visit and help her out. She maintains a couple hundred sheep, and the farm, mostly alone at 75 years old. WOAH! Avery and his son – with help and parts from Mike – were able to turn this 94-year-old abandoned mechanical farm hand, into a fully restored roadster (above:right).


Organization seems to be the better part of valor … when it comes to Rust Bros & RVR. You’re never really sure what “piece of junk” Mike will barter for or “feral cat of a project” the team will end up working on next. The show gets detoured several times with work-place issues, rivalries (JF Kustoms), car shows (like Cactus Jalopies, White Post Auto Museum, etc), Hit-to-Pass racing and even tending to farm equipment for a couple of days. But in the end, the unpredictable and down-to-earth nature of the show is what really makes it attractive to watch, and more “real” than other offerings in the RUSToration genre. It even provokes a chuckle or two, from time-to-time. Season-2 feels cut short (with only 6 episodes available when we reviewed it) and has a bit of a twist ending. Our recommendation (if you’re new to RVR), watch Season-1 & 2 as one entire Season and it will feel more complete. #satisfaction #bingewatching

History Channel has done a really excellent job of letting the team “do their thing” all while weaving in useful background and historical information on the vehicles. So, if you’re a little-less citified… can appreciate the outdoors… the beauty of western Canada’s interior… then Rust Valley Restorers is great watch even for folks who aren’t petrol-heads or die-hard restorers. We look forward to a Season-3 – but for now – be sure to check out Rust Valley Restorers, available on Netflix. and Follow RVR on Instagram @rustbrosrestos.

Le Car – French Appreciation Week

5

In the US, we easily forget about what we don’t have constantly on display, which meant it was time to répandre l’amour [spread the love] and share in some French appreciation! Review the Instagram feed: #gtmfrancais.


Introduction au français 101

When we think about the humble beginnings of the automobile, I’m sure many of you think back to the Benz-Motorwagen from 1885. It goes down in history and is rightfully heralded as an early Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) “car.”

But the honor of first automobile actually goes to a a french inventor: Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot who intended to build a machine to help farmers move heavy loads around more easily. What he ended up with was a full-size and working self-propelled vehicle (above) called the “Fardier à vapeur” — a steam powered “car” in 1769. And if you couldn’t tell, it was front-wheel-drive! Credit for the first “car accident” also goes to France, when one of the Cugnot machines crashed into a stone wall in 1771 – LOL.

All that being said, the French have been in the car business for quite a long time. And when you think of brands, nowadays you probably only recognize the icons above; but in reality the French design house portfolio looks more like the ones below.


Patrimoine de course

“Racing Heritage” – You might not see many french brands at the top of the charts when it comes to racing records anymore. And whether you believe it or not, they pioneered (and control) a majority of the Motorsports world since the very beginning. For your consideration: The first closed-circuit road race, the Course de Périgueux, was run in 1898, a distance of 145 km on one lap and was governed by the Automobile Club de France (founded in 1895). Rallye Monte Carlo has been held since 1911 passing through Monaco and France. The 24 Hours of Le Mans is the world’s oldest active endurance race, held annually since 1923 near the town of Le Mans, France. The Grand Prix de Monaco has been held annually since 1929, and is widely considered to be one of the most important and prestigious automobile races in the world. Note: And even though Monaco isn’t “France” it *IS* “French adjacent.”

More importantly the Paris-based Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (better known as the FIA) founded in 1904, is the governing body for many Motorsports disciplines and its most prominent role is in the licensing and sanctioning of Formula One, World Rally Championship, World Endurance Championship, World Touring Car Cup, World Rallycross Championship, Formula E and various other forms of racing, including Motorcycles (see also: FIM).

Despite all other competitions French manufacturers have entered (as seen in the carousel above), nothing compares to WRC. Peugeot and Renault were at the center of the iconic WRC “Grouppe B” era as arch-rivals but also working to take down Audi. Take a look at this video from the Peugeot vaults titled “Climb Dance” featuring Ari Vatanan‘s record Pikes Peak run, as well as other footage from Grouppe B, Raid, Dakar and more! (below).


Oh mon dieu!

For a country that is roughly the size of Texas, they also have a fair amount of active tracks! Check out the list (below).

Bugatti Circuit (at Le Mans)
Circuit de la Sarthe (Le Mans)
Circuit d’Albi
Circuit Paul Armagnac
Circuit Paul Ricard
Circuit de Croix-en-Ternois
Circuit du Mas du Clos
Circuit de Lédenon
Circuit du Val de Vienne
Circuit des Remparts
Charade
Clermont-Ferrand
Dijon-Prenois
La Châtre
Magny-Cours
Maison Blanche Circuit
Nogaro
Paris-Dakar Rally
Pau Grand Prix
Rally Corsica
Rally Monte Carlo
Reims
Saint-Cloud Racecourse

Enough history lessons … let’s really set the mood with this epic “getaway drive” in a Ferrari 275 GTB from Porte Dauphine to Sacre Coeur de Montmartre at Sunrise – Paris, France shot in 1976.


Très chic!

Is there anything more cozy and romantic, dare I say “more french” than a 2CV? (above)… I think if I polled 10 of my closest petrol-head friends, 9 of them would use the word QUIRKY to describe anything French they’ve ever come across, especially the 2CV. And at first glance, that might be true… but I feel it goes deeper than that. Remember to check out our test drives of the Renault 5 Turbo II and Peugeot 5008.

French design is steeped in history and tradition, its glitzy, glamorous and often nothing short of flamboyant. This confidence trickles down into everything they make, from the Palace at Versailles all the way down to their automobiles. Designs can be considered “eclectic” but I would argue “edge defining” is the more appropriate term. French auto designers have pushed the envelope in many cases where others would never dare. Vous ne pouvez pas faire une omelette sans casser quelques œufs [“You can’t make an omelet without cracking a few eggs”]. 

Meanwhile, an icon of French automotive design, the Citroen DS (aka “the goddess”) celebrates its 65th birthday this year. Many argue its “one of the most stylish cars of all time” and I beg to differ. Admittedly, I have a violent and absolute aversion to this car, for me its the escargot of vehicles. BUT! – I can appreciate some of its technological feats that make it so important to the automotive landscape. The DS was the first production car (1955) with disc brakes and all-around independent ‘air spring’ hydraulic suspension. The DS was also the first car with crumple zones and a collapsible steering wheel and an engine designed to roll under the body for protection in an accident. It can also claim to be the first car with a plastic dashboard and with aluminum and plastic body panels. A DS also saved French President De Gaulle’s life in 1962 when his DS was hit by a hail of bullets. In 1967, during design face-lift, swiveling front headlamps were added that turned in time with the steering wheel to illuminate corners at night. #alwaysbeapexing.

Two of the most iconic “Hot Hatches” are also French. Both the road going versions of the Peugeot 205 (center) and the Renault R5 (right) started life as your run of the mill front-wheel-drive people movers. Checking all the boxes, both vehicles had space for your grocery run, kids, poodle pup and came with roll up windows and a radio. How these two manufacturers bent the rules is still up for debate, but they transformed these unsalted baguettes into fire breathing, mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive missiles. Homologation be damned, when you write the rule book, you can change the rules! 😉


Au revoir! 

If you followed us on Instagram: #gtmfrancais this week, you’ll see that we made a couple of laps around the Arc de Triumph! From designs that take us from crusty breads to boeuf bourguignon and everything in between. We really started to realize that many of the french offerings are truly delicate moving works of art. Brands like Renault, Alpine, Venturi and Bugatti have brought passion and excitement to the car world, in the same way that a macaron is arguably complex and yet the perfect bite-size pastry. We hope you enjoyed the trip! And with that, we bid French Appreciation week adieu! and hope you’ll join us for another upcoming themed car week at GTM. Until then… Au revoir!

#merrymotoring #neverstoplearning

Fahrvergnügen

For those not in the know, or too young to remember: “Fahrvergnügen” was an advertising slogan used by German automobile manufacturer Volkswagen in a 1990 US ad campaign that included a stick figure driving a Volkswagen car (seen below).


Fahrvergnügen means “driving enjoyment” in English (from fahren, “to drive,” and Vergnügen, “enjoyment”). The term itself is not standard German but a neologism (compound noun) created especially for this advertising campaign. One of the tag lines incorporating the word was: “Fahrvergnügen: It’s what makes a car a Volkswagen.” 


More recently, one of our members (Sam H) a fellow former Scirocco owner, came across a video (below) where Jason Cammisa of Road&Track magazine speaks about his long-term relationship with his Mk.2 VW Scirocco 16v. Take a moment to review, and we’ll chat more. #thefeels

Overall, I thought – not knowingly – Jason does a good job of summarizing the concept of “Fahrvergnügen.” A sentiment which for many of us – of a certain generation – feel about not just older VAG offerings, but all sorts of cars from the ’80s, ’90s and early 2000s.

But as you probably realized, there is a dark underbelly to the conversation and it leads to a deeper discussion about “parts scarcity and limited production vehicles.”  Folks in the Classic Car world (vehicles from the 1900s to the late-1940s) deal with this issue all the time. Back then, there were all sorts of boutique and one-off manufacturers, where “3 in the world” was the entire production run. But for classics, there is an established network of specialist fabricators and mechanics keeping those cars “glorious.” But does anyone outside of enthusiasts really care about econo-boxes and culturally popular cars from the ’80s? Sadly, no one expected to see this sort of problem arising for mass produced cars.


It’s an emotional outcry, to say… bring back simple cars, cars people can get enthusiastic about, cars people WANT to drive.


Nowadays, it’s all about refining, miniaturizing, and being more efficient with an already existing design or platform. Different sheet-metal over the same chassis. Matt Y spoke about this in an article last year titled: “Whatever Happened to Automotive Styling?” (be sure to check it out). One could also make a solid argument that to satisfy “Fahrvergnügen” all you have to do is “just get an Impreza, Mustang (or insert other modern car here) – its way better”Sure. But it’s not the same driving experience, and doesn’t illicit the same reaction from onlookers. As an example, the GTI Tania M and I share (as well as my Wagon) is arguably a much better car than anything from the ’80s VW lineup. It make all the right sounds, is nimble, and just quick enough to put a smile on our faces – much like Jason Cammisa’s storybut it’s really not the same thing. #same-same-but-different

 

Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t supposed to be a persuasive argument convincing you to immediately convert whatever you have to 30+ year old car, but more about “older cars” in general. There is something to be said about stepping back into an older VW, Porsche, BMW E30s/E36s, Toyota’s (like: AE86, ST185, etc), Nissan Z-cars, and countless others. I know Matt Y has shared these sentiments about cars from the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s. Was it better then, NO! – but was it different, YES!  The further you go back and dive into a cars history, you’re transported back to an era where cars still had souls, designs came from passion, engineering was innovative and manufacturers cared about the enthusiast. In the end, this is really an emotional outcry, to say… bring back simple cars, cars people can get excited about, cars people WANT to drive. And that my friends… is Fahrvergnügen. #thosefeels. #nostalgia.


Ignoring the countless items in the “con” column surrounding older cars – which sometimes, is what makes them appealing. It makes us wonder, do newer cars hold up to the idea of Fahrvergnügen? Share your thoughts below!

Playing Dirty

There’s so many different racing disciplines out there… you could be a fan of NASCAR, IndyCar, Formula-1, Outlaws, MotoGP – the list just goes on and on. And I know that I’m one of the few in GTM that is even remotely interested in Rally, and I’m in an even smaller circle of die-hard WRC fans. That being said, I’ve been following World Rally since the ’80s. My dad signed us up for cable for the explicit reason of watching Grouppe-B Rally and Trans-AM races – mostly because of Audi. Later on his interests changed to Formula-1 and MotoGP, but I was always a Rally fan – and it’s still a dream to one day race in a Rally Car. But state-side that’s a lot harder than it sounds, its just not part of our racing culture. So I’ve found that over the years, the way I could escape this bleak reality was to immerse myself in the virtual world. And there is one name in virtual Motorsports that has always been on top when it comes to Rally (Formula-1 and Touring Car), and that’s: CODEMASTERS.


My first Codemasters games were: Micro Machines and Ultimate Stuntman for the NES. And for many of you it might be the “F1” games or TOCA. But my first foray into Rally was in 1998 with the debut of Colin McRae Rally (CMR) for the PC. While everyone else was playing Madden or FIFA, I was tearing up the Finnish country side in a Ford Escort!

Codemasters carried the “Colin McRae” name on its rally series up until his death in 2007. The transition titles were called “Colin McRae: Dirt” until finally dropping to just “DIRT.” For those keeping count: Codemasters has put out 22 versions of Rally games since 1998. I haven’t kept up with all 22 variants, but I’ve had the pleasure of owing/playing the bigger titles like: CMR, CMR 2.0, DIRT 1-4, DIRT Showdown, DIRT Rally, etc. And even though DIRT Rally (2015) and DIRT 4 (2017) have been out for quite a while now they were the two titles most closely released to one another** in the franchise.

My wife knows when another “rousing round of rally” is coming. Usually when times are slow or the weather is bitter cold, I turn to these sorts of games, because they make me happy. And with Soooooo much extra time these days it only makes sense that I head to my comfort zone. Which got me thinking… new games release every week, and much like any other “critic based” industry, reviews are conducted independently and on individual titles. Not a lot of seat time is spent with the games because of writing deadlines and most of them read like book reports. Why not step back and setup a “Rally Special Stage” and compare these two titles side-by-side!


Ready… Steady… GO!

DIRT RALLY

DIRT 4

So what’s it like to play?

I could use 1000 words to try and describe what its like to play each game, but figured it might be easier if I just recorded a session from each for review. As much as each game would allow, I choose the same location, course length, weather conditions, and car type: Sweden, Varmland, about 4 miles, Afternoon – Snowing, Grouppe-B Audi Sport Quattro. I run without any assists, and manual transmission. I also tried to save time by cutting out all of the loads times, which can be upwards of 30+ seconds. Sit back, and experience virtual Rally for yourself (below).

In lane-1: DIRT RALLY

After the release of DIRT Showdown the team at Codemasters emphasized a desire to create a “proper simulation” with Dirt Rally. They started by prototyping a handling model and creating tracks based on previous map data. The game employs a different physics model from previous titles, rebuilt from zero. 

DIRT Rally offers 3 styles of play: Classic point-to-point Rally Stages, RallyCross and Hillclimb. Courses/Maps are based on actual WRC rally stages, but the system does allow for random map generation. Course lengths are long (and narrow) and present a challenge for most players.

DIRT Rally won all sorts of accolades like “Best Rally Sim” – which isn’t hard to achieve when you’re the only one in the market. But what is true of DIRT Rally is that its ultra realistic. Cars break, radiators explode, tires burst, the surface and weather conditions are extremely variable and the “speed” feels real (aka “slower than you expect”).

The downside to all this realism is an unforgiving game. Don’t get me wrong, its visually stunning, the sound quality amazing, the attention to detail is unmatched. But much like other “sims” its probably better played with a Steering Wheel + Pedal combo.

When I first got DIRT Rally, I was disappointed and felt like they ruined DIRT for me. It was virtually unplayable. Once my disappointment (which manifested itself in frustration and anger) subsided, I forced myself to spend more time with the game, and realized its was a lot like Colin McRae Rally 2.0 – it took patience, restraint, and and overall ability to be SMOOOOOTH, to go fast and win.

(Above) original score from IGN; read the review below:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/22/dirt-rally-review

In lane-2: DIRT 4

 

So far the standard DIRT titles have all been very good. DIRT 2 and 3 being my favorites overall. They were to rally what Forza is to track days. Jump in, have fun, be fast, win races. What many of you might not know is that Playground Games (the folks behind Forza Horizon) is a joint venture between Turn-10 and Codemasters. And DIRT-4 feels like the folks at Codemasters have spent too much time working on Horizon. 

Visuals are clean, but softer when compared to DIRT Rally. The DIRT-4 soundtrack doesn’t disappoint, but it is starting to feel a bit more euro-trash rave-mix (horizon festival) compared to previous games, but it does help break up the endless amounts of “Press (A) to Continue” you have to navigate through to get to race. 

DIRT-4 has the same play-ability as previous titles, it almost feels like the (EGO) physics engine is just a carry over from DIRT-3. But here’s where things fall apart, what made previous titles fun like: T1 Raid, Point-to-Point landrush races and RallyCross have all been “summarized.” Courses are repetitive and dropped to less than 1 mile,  the career tree is short, and somewhat boring. You have to slog through these races to in order to gain licenses and unlock more cars. I was happy that DIRT-4 dropped the Ken Block inspired Gymkanna races from DIRT-3. 

Having put in enough time to unlock the Grouppe-B cars, it let me test the game in a proper rally format. Rally stages (maps) can be randomized, which is fun, but the lengths are kept on the shorter side compared to DIRT Rally. It really feels like they left “all the good rally stuff” in DIRT Rally and made DIRT-4 an arcade racer.

DIRT-4 introduces a whole “manage the team” concept which seems to be borrowed from the “F1” franchise. If you’re not into that, its OK, but the game doesn’t progress unless you give your team some attention. 

(Above) original score from IGN; read the review below:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/06/dirt-4-review


okay, take it up to the Marshall…

If you took the time to review the videos above, you can see that the games are same-same but different. Graphically DIRT Rally is crisper and more detailed. You have to be very concentrated to have a “perfect lap” – its stressful, and you can loose control very easily. Resetting the car is annoying unless you have a reset key mapped (but you’ll take a +15 sec penalty). The cars are “twitchier and darty” and walls seem to magnetize the vehicle if you miss your apex.

DIRT-4 on the other hand… is much more playable. #sendit. You can carry more speed, throttle steer more easily and track widths are slightly wider making the run more enjoyable. And more importantly, the cars are somewhat indestructible! The menu system in DIRT-4 doesn’t follow the “2-clicks max” rule, and you spend as much time clicking through screens as you do waiting for the sessions to load.

Both DIRT Rally and DIRT-4 have highs and lows, but if they were somehow merged, you could make ONE awesome game, because where one lacks the other excels. Sadly there is no talk about a DIRT-5 yet, but I am still hopeful! Overall, if you’re looking to try something new, and Rally is of interest… start with DIRT-3 #wink-wink.


**Although DIRT Rally 2.0 released in 2019, I haven’t picked up a copy to see if they’ve corrected some of the challenges the original version presented. More to come. 

#keeptheshinysideUP!