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Hurley Haywood & the Audi Era: How Quattro Rewrote American Motorsport

Some stories in motorsport are so seismic that even decades later, they still rattle the paddock. Hurley Haywood’s time behind the wheel of Audi’s all‑wheel‑drive TransAm and IMSA machines is one of those stories — a brief but explosive chapter that reshaped racing technology, infuriated competitors, and cemented Audi’s place in performance history.

Geoffrey Hewitt Photograph Collection – courtesy Revs Institute

In this special Break/Fix pit‑stop episode, we go behind the scenes with Hurley to revisit the era when a “family sedan” became the most feared weapon in American road racing.

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Hurley’s Audi journey began in 1983 under unlikely circumstances. After breaking his leg, he couldn’t operate a traditional clutch in a Porsche — but Bob Tullius of Group 44 saw a workaround. Jaguar’s gearboxes only required the clutch in the pits, and Al Holbert gave Tullius a simple directive: “If you can hire Hurley, do it Today.” That decision set off a chain of events that would forever link Hurley to Group 44 and bring him from Jaguars to one of the most technologically advanced racing programs of its time: Audi.

Synopsis

Photo courtesy ACO; lemans.org

In this Break/Fix Pit Stop Minisode, the hosts welcome back legendary sports car driver Hurley Haywood to revisit his defining years with Audi in Trans-Am and IMSA. Hurley explains how Bob Tullius and Audi brought him into the program after he broke his leg, describes Group 44’s professionalism, and contrasts team dynamics once Audi factory engineers controlled strategy and development. He recounts early surprises with the Quattro, learning all-wheel-drive technique, and how the cars became overwhelmingly dominant, winning a Trans-Am championship before SCCA banned four-wheel drive and IMSA piled on weight and engine restrictions that rarely slowed them. Haywood discusses the advanced 90 Quattro GTO, politics that ended Audi’s program, his brief Ferrari F40 IMSA experience, lessons from Walter Röhrl, and reflections on technology, dominance, and Audi’s prospects in Formula 1.

  • Hurley, before we dive into the Audi era, can you share what initially drew you to TransAm racing and how it fit into your broader career at the time?
  • Let’s revisit how Bob Tullis put the deal together for the Audi program
  • When you first got behind the wheel of the Audi Quattro in TransAm, what were your initial impressions compared to the more traditional rear-wheel drive cars you had raced before?
  • The all-wheel drive technology was groundbreaking for TransAm—how did you and the team adapt your driving style and strategy to maximize its strengths?
  • How did other drivers and teams in the paddock react to the dominance of the Audi Quattro, and what was the atmosphere like competing under those conditions?
  • Beyond just the performance, what was the team culture like working with Audi during that period, and how did it compare with other manufacturers you had raced for?
  • Many fans credit that era with helping Audi solidify its motorsport reputation in the U.S.—what do you think was the long-term impact of those TransAm seasons for the brand?
  • As a driver, did you feel a sense of responsibility representing a new era of technology in racing, or did you simply focus on executing / winning behind the wheel?
  • Looking back, what lessons from those TransAm seasons have stayed with you, either about racing, teamwork, or innovation?
  • Finally, if you had the chance to climb back into an Audi TransAm car today, how do you think it would feel revisiting that chapter of your career?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] We always have a blast chatting with our guests about all sorts of different topics, but sometimes we go off the rails and dig deeper into their automotive and motor sports pasts. As a bonus, let’s go behind the scenes with this pit stop mini episode for some extra content that didn’t quite fit in the main episode.

Sit back and enjoy and remember to like, subscribe and support break fix on Patreon.

Crew Chief Eric: Tonight we are honored to revisit the legendary career of Hurley Haywood, one of the most decorated and respected sports car drivers of all time. While many remember Hurley for his victories at the 24 hours at Daytona, and his wins at Lama, his time in the TransAm series with Audi stands as a defining chapter in American Motorsport.

Behind the wheel of the powerful Audi Quatro. Hurley helped rewrite the rule book, showcasing the dominance of all-wheel drive technology on circuits where traditional rear wheel drive muscle. Once ruled his success not only brought Audi unprecedented glory and TransAm, but also cemented his place as a pioneer who bridged [00:01:00] innovation and skill.

We’ll revisit those groundbreaking seasons and hear firsthand how Hurley Haywood helped change the face of the series and get insight about his time in TransAm and imsa. From folks like Rick Huey from the I-M-R-R-C, legendary Pro driver Lynn St. James, and Senior Director of Competition at imsa Mark Roff.

And with that, let’s welcome

AUDI SOUND: Hurley to break fix.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Hurley, it’s awesome to have you back in the studio. The last time we got together, we talked about your adventures at lama, and during that episode we touched just briefly on your history with Audi and with TransAm, and so we wanted to revisit that part of your motor sports career Before we dive deep into the Audi era.

Can you take us back and explain how you ended up in TransAm racing, how that fit into your broader career, and tell us about how Bob Tullia put together the deal with the Audi program.

Hurley Haywood: Uh, I had broken my leg back in 1983. Bob Tullia called up [00:02:00] Al Holbert and he said, I’m thinking about hiring Hurley because you know, he can’t push the clutch down on a Porsche, but we have a gearbox and he only has to push the clutch to get in and out of the pits.

Al said to Bob, he said, if you can hire Hurley, do it today because he’s one of the best. And that’s exactly what happened. So I raised for the Jaguar team, the Trulia team group, 44 for two and a half years. And then when that program stopped and it moved over to Walkinshaw, Walkinshaw decided that he wanted Brian Redman and myself to come help his team win the race.

Well. We were told basically to keep our mouth shut and drive as fast as we could go. ’cause he wanted to be on television at the start of the race. And so eventually all three cars had mechanical problems and we [00:03:00] would move from one car to the other car. And so I don’t wanna get into the particulars, but it was kind of an amusing round table of guys that were going from one car to another car, and then that car would break and move to the third car.

So it was a, uh, difficult situation to be in. Well, let me back up a little bit. When Bob Tulio lost the Jaguar deal, at the same time Audi was thinking about coming into race in the United States. They wanted to sort of promote the Audi program and Joe Hopin called me up and said, I want you to come to Atlanta.

We have a 12 hour night race in a Audi Quatra in a, basically a sedan, 200 sedan racing seat and seat belts. And that was about the, the only extent of modifications that they made to the car. So I would say. You must be joking. So anyway, the weather turned terrible and it was raining like hell and [00:04:00] we were third overall against really race cars.

So, you know, I was pretty excited about that. And then about a month later, Joe Hopin called me and said, what would you think about racing an Audi in the TransAm? And I kind of thought about it for a moment and, uh, I said, what’s the deal? And he said, well, let’s go over to English dot and I’ll, let me show you the, the car that they’re working on.

So we went over, Walter Rule was there, and he sort of gave me the background of the car I got in this thing and I was really surprised. I said, this is pretty cool. And Joe Hopin was of course, the guy that sort of negotiated all the rules and everything. He called me up and he said, well, what do you think we should do?

What team do you think we should get

Rick Hughey (IMRRC): now Was that Tuus?

AUDI SOUND: That was Tuus

Rick Hughey (IMRRC): ran that program.

AUDI SOUND: That relationship lasted five years. I drove with the Jags for two years or three years, and then I drove for him with the Audi program and he was a great [00:05:00] guy. A lot of people didn’t like Bob, but. I liked him. He and I never had a crossword.

I was always kind of a little rebellious. You know, you had to do the uniform thing on that team. You had to be dressed in a uniform every time. And Bob was very explicit about, you know, white shoes, white socks, white shorts, green belt, gold army type style, belt buckle belt buckle, web belt, white shirt, you know, the whole nine yards.

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): One of the only teams in history whose people were always dressed in white and never got dirty. Not sure how they did that, but I think they had enough uniforms in the truck that if you did, you had to go change right away. But yeah. How many people have white crew guys, you know.

AUDI SOUND: And I would always have one thing that was not quite up to team standard, different color bells or a slightly different shade of sock or you know, something like that.

And he never said anything. I knew he saw it, but he never said anything. It was a nice relationship with him and I really liked the team and I liked the discipline and you know, Bob was one of the first guys that really brought professionalism [00:06:00] up to a standard that’s now enjoyed by everybody. You walk down Pi Lane in Wisa or whatever it is, and the team and the philosophy that you have with these teams, uniforms, detail preparation, always started by Bob.

Mm-hmm. Bob truly has really brought that discipline. Look to sports, car racing

Rick Hughey (IMRRC): and the preparation there was always excellent. I mean, I know one of his mechanics used to work on Air Force One, so that’s gotta be second in.

Hurley Haywood: He’s got all the equipment, he is got the shop, he’s got the transporters. They’re all spotless.

Totally. In the Audi sort of way of thinking,

Crew Chief Eric: you raced for a lot of different teams over the years. I mean, predominantly Porsche E, especially Porsche, I’ll say. What was it like racing for Audi? What was it? What was the team dynamics like? What was the culture like? What was the attitude?

Hurley Haywood: Well, that was definitely a factory team.

And Bob, I think, had a hard time at the beginning accepting that role as to sort of the mechanism that let the Audi happen. But all of the [00:07:00] decisions on how you would run the car during the race, how you would set the car up and engineering wise was taken out of his hands and replaced with the factory people.

We had a lot of factory people that went to Winchester. Which is where the headquarters were for Bob, but it was something that Bob was able to employ all his guys and his guys were very, very quick to learn the process. So it was a real team effort on both the American side and the German side, where everybody came together and worked very nicely together.

I don’t really remember any times when there was a lot of friction between those two entities. Everybody worked together.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you get a chance to work with or meet Roland Gum? He was one of the masterminds behind Audi’s success in World Rally Championship.

Hurley Haywood: Yes, I did.

Crew Chief Eric: So what was Roland like to work with?

Was he involved in the TransAm in the IMSA program too? Trying to refine the car?

Hurley Haywood: Yes. I think he was. And. The development of those cars went on 12 months out of the [00:08:00] year on both the TransAm and the GT Os period, the SSA period. It was a continual development on both types of cars. It was a nice position to be in and then have guys like Joe Hopin sort of smoothing the water out, making everybody happy, but it didn’t work most of the time.

So that’s what happened and he got the deal and everybody went over to Ingles Scott to talk about the program and you know, work out the details. But that was one of the greatest cars. Everybody laughed, said, what are you doing with, this is a family sedan. It looks like a family sedan. I said, well guys, just wait and see.

They stopped laughing after our first race because we were just so superior to everything else on the racetrack.

Crew Chief Eric: Your first impressions of the Audi completely different than anything you had driven up until that point when you compared it to the Porsches and the Jaguars. What was the experience like with a front heavy all wheel drive family sedan, as you put it?

Hurley Haywood: It was actually brilliant to drive. You had to make a little bit of an [00:09:00] adjustment because, you know, it was not a conventional car, so getting used to the all-wheel drive and it didn’t take very long. And I sort of got the technique much quicker than, uh, Hans did. Hans was very frustrated at the beginning of the season because we had engineers with both cars.

My engineer. Was different than Hans’s engineer. And Hans wanted to set up the car a little bit differently that I liked it. So it took a while for him to get into the rhythm, but I found it, okay, this is what the deal is and this is what we’re gonna do. And sure enough, the car was completely dominant in all the TransAm races.

I won the championship for myself and for Audi, and then the SCCA kicked us out. They said no. Four wheel drive is not allowed. Then we moved over to imsa.

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): This is, uh, one of the coolest cars we ever developed with Audi, which also became the biggest pain in the butt for us.

Hurley Haywood: Uh, we started with a 90 Quatro, and the 90 Quatro, in my opinion, was probably one of the best race cars I ever [00:10:00] driven.

I mean, that thing was so incredibly awesome.

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): Full tube frame, five cylinder inline turbo.

Hurley Haywood: It had over 700 horsepower

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): hunch, stook, Hurley Haywood, and occasionally Walter Royal, a rally driver who even people like hunch Stook said when he showed up. I raced for second. The man was amazing. The intriguing thing was the car is constant all-wheel drive car, which meant it applied.

The drive you wanted on each wheel based on the grip level that the car was sensing that it needed, it wasn’t 20% front, 80% back. It was applying that drive to the wheels as it saw it needed. So the hard part of it was, we started it out. Goodyear made ’em special tires 14 inches wide. We realized after a couple races, they didn’t go to Daytona and Sebring because they didn’t think they could finish.

Hurley Haywood: The cars were not really made to do long distance races. So we didn’t do Daytona. We didn’t do Sebring. But then, you know, I think stook. Won almost every race, and I was second in all those races. So that thing was unbelievable. 700 horsepower, [00:11:00] huge tires on the front end rear, and it was really a pretty cool car to drive.

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): So they started on 14th, we summed down two, three races. Changed that to 12 and then changed it to 10, a couple races later, and the end result was, it made no difference. The 10 inch wide tires worked just as good as the 14 inch tires.

Hurley Haywood: We really dominated the whole series. They were pissed off. They kept adding weight to us and all kinds of restrictions on the engines and the intakes.

It made no difference. The cars were just brilliant with the four wheel drive systems,

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): part of the reasons and the learning experience for us was technically what’s going on with a car like this is the tire degradation. Is way better. ’cause your lo, the load of slowing down is spread over all four wheels.

The braking was much better and the acceleration was phenomenal. So it was an amazing car. It is probably, in my opinion, one of the coolest, most technically advanced things that IMSA created. We did some other stuff, but this one was sort of a challenge for them and. To [00:12:00] do this. They won the TransAm the year before with a car, an Audi 100 made out of a real production shell.

This has nothing to do with that other than the greenhouse silhouette and so on, so forth. But spectacular car two remain. One is here in the USA and one is in Germany. And the significance to Audi is when they just showed their first concept, formula One car, the car that’s behind the Formula one car in their display is that car, not the R eight prototype.

That’s off to the side, but that car is right there that embodies. Audi’s performance thing and it’s 1989. Pretty amazing what they were able to do and how they did it.

Rick Hughey (IMRRC): And we mentioned marketing a little while ago. They’re still using video from those days to market the Audi all wheel drive now. So it really stood out in history.

I think,

AUDI SOUND: you know, the all wheel drive is certainly something that has found its way into lots of different types of production cars down. It’s just is a benefit that. His, um, well worth people taking a look at, and Audi was the one that kind of pioneered that system in a race car. It was just phenomenal and that’s why they basically banned them [00:13:00] and don’t see four wheel drive cars anymore.

Hurley Haywood: Everybody was out to get us and nobody really could. There were cars were so dominant, the four wheel drive, regardless of what the conditions were, rain, hot, sandy, you know, whatever the conditions are. The Audis were dominant. The reason we didn’t win the championship. Was because the cars were not built for long distance races for Daytona and for Seabring.

Those were in the calendar for the series. So we missed those two races, but we won everything else after that. Practically.

Rick Hughey (IMRRC): I know you had one race here that you do the whole race yourself.

AUDI SOUND: Yeah, I, I got it into, uh, Scott Goodier was supposed to drive with me. Scott was new to the team. I was having a great battle and just didn’t want to give it up at the pit stop.

So I stayed in. And the Audi, that was really the first time that I had been with a factory team. That was excessive. Anything that we wanted, we could have. I mean, if I said, Hey guys, you know, I want to have wood paneling on the dashboard. I mean, the [00:14:00] next race, I have wood paneling on the. It was like a driver’s dream and the cars themselves were absolutely fantastic.

I mean, just, it was just a really nice atmosphere to be able to work in that kind of situation where. Anything you wanted was possible

Crew Chief Eric: at that time. The term that was used was borrowed from Mark Donahue, the unfair advantage that Audi had because of the all-wheel drive, but it was cutting edge technology, not just in racing, but in the production world itself.

Like Audi put itself on the map after many, many years of being in business by putting all-wheel drive and production cars, and now they bring it to. TransAm racing, this groundbreaking technology. I mean, you dominated, but with all these penalties, with all the setbacks, with everything that they tried to do to stop the Audi’s advantage, how much did you have to adapt as a driver every time they penalized the car?

Hurley Haywood: Yeah, as I said, it made no difference to the performance, weight restrictions on the intakes. None of that really had an effect. The cars were so good [00:15:00] and the engineers. Behind the cars were so good that they, you know, said, oh, we need to do this. We need to change the weight balance a little bit. But in retrospect, it really didn’t slow us down at all.

Cars were so good.

Crew Chief Eric: Were there some tracks where the Audi was at a disadvantage? Like, I remember watching the Long Beach races were super tight and, and watching you kind of struggle and saw it the wheel a little bit to get through the tightness of Long Beach versus something like Watkins Glen where you could really open it up.

Hurley Haywood: It made no difference with the track. Some of the tighter tracks. Like Long Beach, you had a lot of different surface changes and where the other cars might have an advantage in one place, you had an advantage in the other place. So it sort of worked itself out. But still, you know, the worst conditions, like I remember we were running Texas now.

That was with the transient car, Texas. That was a joke. The uh, surface was just, there was one line through the corners and. If you made one step out of that line, you were in the wall and [00:16:00] a very tight chords. And I remember passing Willie Willie t ribs and I got up alongside of him. He was on the inside on the clean track and I was in in the sand, and I sort of kind waved at him when I went by.

He gave me the finger. He said, you know, God damn. At the end of the race, he came up and he says, Jesus, this car is so good making us all look really bad. So, you know, went, it was fun.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, it’s funny you mentioned that we had Lynn St. James on quite a few times on the show. In one of her interviews we talked about this.

Was it really like that when you guys were competing against the Audis? Was everybody so upset about it? Was it really that earth shattering?

Lyn St. James: Yes, it was awful. You would be hanging under your car in a corner. And then they just go driving by, you know? ’cause you got that all wheel drive and it would be like, you would just cuss the hell out of everything.

I mean, I could have killed Hurley and stuck, you know, because it was like, oh, I can remember Meadowlands particularly because you know, when you get in these temporary circuits and, and so it was [00:17:00] maddening. It was totally, it was, it was brutal and maddening because it was an unfair advantage. I mean, it complete, I mean, there’s turbos and there’s normally aspirated that erase it against each other.

They have different power bands. But you know that all eventually it evens out and there are certain tracks that are handling tracks, certain tracks that are more high speed tracks if you have a handling car versus, you know, one versus the other. But it eventually evens out when they had that all wheel drive bullshit.

I mean, that was like, that was never gonna even out.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s no balance of performance there, right?

Lyn St. James: No. Oh, of course now, yeah. I mean, there’s the. That’s a whole different thing the way the rules are. I mean, God, I’d hate to have to run a team right now because every week they changed the BOP, you know? And yeah, back then you were stuck.

You know? You were stuck with what you got, the way the rules were, they didn’t change the rules that much throughout the year, and if they did, it was usually to your disadvantaged. But that whole Audi all wheel drive thing was, it makes me just livid thinking about it again, because we. We struggled so hard.

God, it was awful.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, the [00:18:00] struggle was real for the rest of the drivers, but was it the sanctioning body penalizing the car, or was it the drivers complaining so much that you guys were so dominant that they wanted to pull the Audi back? Do you know what, what the politics was like at that time?

Hurley Haywood: Our politics were governed by Joe Hopin and Joe Hopin was a miracle man with the sanctioning bodies and the rules.

So regardless of what they put on us. Joe would talk to the engineers and say, what would happen if we added a hundred pounds or 50 pounds, and they would kind of look at Joe and say, eh, nothing really wouldn’t affect the cars at all, because the balance of those cars were so good that all of the things that they could put against us were irrelevant at that point.

As far as the restrictions on the. On the engines, you know, the engines were way under stressed, especially with the TransAm motor, so there was a big margin. You know, we didn’t show everything at the beginning. We held a little bit back on the [00:19:00] performance part of it, and they could put the restrictions on us, and it really didn’t make any difference in the end.

Crew Chief Eric: So when you look back at TransAm in those days, obviously the road courses they use a little more rustic. You have things like the Meadowlands and Summit point on the list and whatnot. But even the cars were almost, in a way, an homage to the days of Can-Am, where you could build what you wanted. You had Nissans, you had Corvettes, you had Audis, you had all sorts of stuff in TransAm, you know what you’re describing.

I wonder, when you look back, do you think this was the beginning of almost like balance of performance where they were trying to figure out a way to make the cars more competitive and more even?

Hurley Haywood: Well, I think it was. All the other manufacturers ganged up said, you know, this car is not fair. We can’t compete against these cars.

And we really had a great car, great engineers, and Joe Hopin was a master at politics. That’s the way it was. And I think that combination between the other drivers, the other teams and the other manufacturers all ganged up. Tried to get the Saxon bodies to put, you know, restrictions on [00:20:00] us, but as I said it, they made little difference in the performance.

Crew Chief Eric: So talking about some of those tracks, some are still used today in the TransAm series and others not so much. Are there some memorable tracks, favorite laps or moments that stick out for you behind the wheel of the Audi?

Hurley Haywood: Well, you know, the Audi was so good both on the TransAm car and the GTO car. That regardless of what track you were on, it was like you just could screw with the other guys.

You know, you couldn’t run up alongside of them. Go on the outside, go on the inside and kinda wave as you went by and that would just piss everybody off big time. So I remember one time Joe had said to both Hans and myself, you know, the cars are good, but don’t rub it in their nose. So, you know, that’s what we had to do.

But you know, as a racing driver, especially with Hans, Hans was really good at. Pissing everybody off and, you know, making fun of it. So it, it was two years of great, great fun

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): and there’s some [00:21:00] video of people like Ook would just pass people in the dirt or the grass because the car could do that. So the rest of the guys are like, what is he doing?

He just drove me around me in the dirt.

Crew Chief Eric: And it’s funny you bring that up because I remember distinctly watching one of the races. With my dad watching you, Hurley, Hans and Walter driving the cars and at one point vividly remember him saying, I think he just passed him in the grass. I mean, the kind of shenanigans that went down during the TransAm era was absolutely amazing during that time.

And I remember watching archive footage and so I wanted to ask you what was the deal? With Hans antagonizing, the other drivers with the doll in the rear glass that would like, basically moon, everybody. Where did that come from?

Hurley Haywood: I’m, I’m afraid I don’t remember that part. Han Hans was, uh, always really great at coming up with, you know, really weird things and.

You know, kind of rub it into everybody’s face. Like, we’re so good. We don’t even have to try hard.

Crew Chief Eric: Walter’s also part of this equation, and he’s coming from World Rally Championship. You and Hans coming [00:22:00] from road racing, everybody coming together, obviously under the auspices of the Volkswagen Audi group.

What did you learn from each other? What did Walter teach you about driving an Audi and how did you share your knowledge with Walter about road racing?

Hurley Haywood: I don’t think really that I had. Much to say about, about how to drive the cars with Walter. He was so good and he had a long history with Dowdy. You know, he helped us to get our heads around the trick to driving in an all wheel drive car was, you know, Walter was so good and he was very good at sharing knowledge where most drivers are not willing to share setups or you know, how you would drive this corner, how you would drive that corner.

Walter was really good. And I can remember many times going to Walter and said, you know, what are you doing in this corner? What are you doing? And he would sit down and take a map and said, okay, this is what you do with the front wheel drive. All wheel drive. Especially with the viscous coupling. You couldn’t do it from the cockpit, but you would come in and have the [00:23:00] mechanics adjust the uh, front to rear grip, you know, the traction in those tires.

That helped us a lot. We really work with that. Depending on the track, we would go to. He was really, really helpful for me and the engineer that I had was really good, so we, we had a good combination.

Crew Chief Eric: I remember reviewing some of the file footage and it alluded to Hans especially, had to do a lot more left foot breaking, especially with the early TransAm card.

Because of the amount of turbo lag from the single turbo that you guys had on there, did you find yourself also doing a lot more left foot breaking to keep it spooled up and get it to rotate and things like that?

Hurley Haywood: You know, I learned how to do that with the Can-Am car, the nine, 17, and 10. And if you got off the boost in, in those cars, you were just lost.

Everybody would go by you because you had to be very careful with the timing. So you would come in, do your braking, you would sort of fan the throttle to keep the boost up and then. When you would attack the throttle, you had boost and you, [00:24:00] you didn’t have a big lag that sort of went away. When you got into traffic, you really had to play your cards right on timing and pick where your windows of opportunity would be.

Same with the Audi. The Audi on the lag situation. It was not really that significant. So you would late break, get the car turn, and then the balance between the front and the rear. Was almost perfect. So you didn’t have any over steer, you didn’t have any under steer, you just had power to the ground and that was what really separated us from the rest of the guys.

Crew Chief Eric: That wouldn’t be the last time you drove with Hansuk and Walter Rural. And if we jump forward a little bit and then we’ll do, we will dance back. You actually ran in 1993 with Hans and Walter at Lama and a nine 11 turbo. Was that part of this whole group 44 contract? How did that come to be?

Hurley Haywood: No, it didn’t have anything to do with the contract with Group 44.

It was like a prototype nine 11 that we raced at Daytona and Sebring. I think it was really [00:25:00] fast. It was really a great car. And then we were also gonna race that car at Lamont with Struck myself and Walter. That was the race, if my memory’s correct. Was the race that Walter retired after, you know? So that was the end of that program.

That was a really cool car, really fast.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you guys choose to drive together or was that pre-ordained?

Hurley Haywood: It was pre-ordained. They wanted an American, which was me and Walter of course, and Hans. Were great friends and, and fantastic drivers. And very fast. So we were kicking ass in Daytona and then we had a, I think Danny Sullivan drove with us at Daytona.

There was four guys at the on the team at Daytona and mechanical failure. We were out of the race. We were leading at the time.

Crew Chief Eric: The sound of the five cylinder turbos is legendary. I mean, they sound like dragons with their tails on fire. I mean, they’re pretty raucous and fans love it. But what’s it like from inside the car?

Hurley Haywood: The tailpipe sat [00:26:00] halfway inside the cockpit and then would jump on the right side of the car, but you could definitely hear the chirping sound.

That’s what everybody loved. It would made a very distinctive sound as you would get off the power and then gradually get back on the power. It’d make that sort of fluttering sound. People just love that and, and very distinctive, and you could tell it long before the car got within sight with your eyes.

So you just knew what the car was coming. Based on the sound,

Crew Chief Eric: I wanna highlight a particular period in Audi’s experimentation, which I believe you were involved in with Bobby Unser, and that’s the infamous NASCAR Audi 200 trial, the all black version of the TransAm car that was taken to Talladega for a test run.

Can you talk a little bit about the why, the [00:27:00] what and what happened?

Hurley Haywood: Vaguely remember, remember that I think that Bobby was more involved with the Pikes Peak stuff, the Talladega run. That was kind of outside of my book, so I didn’t really pay too much attention to that. But when we decided that we were gonna do this, Audi decided that we were gonna do it, and Joe Hopin backed it up in United States.

When I went over and saw the kind of commitment that Audi was making to this program, both on the Trans AM and GTO side, I said, this is gonna be. Really, really good. Very successful.

Crew Chief Eric: So the move from TransAm to IMSA makes sense. You guys came and did what you needed to do there and moved on to an unlimited class in GTO.

How did the GTO chapter end, was it just outta sheer frustration or had Audi proven what they needed to with you and Hans behind the wheel of the GTO car, or was there something else that said, no, we’re done racing here?

Hurley Haywood: They proved what they wanted to do. They wanted to. Make the all-wheel drive system something that [00:28:00] people would look at and say, ma’am, that would be great in my car, my streetcar.

And then I really don’t know what the politics were. The decision was made. We had won the championship. Hans did a great job. I was a backup. And IMSA Joe called up and said, that’s it. We’re not coming back the next year. And I was like, Ugh, you’re kidding. And I think. One of the reasons were politics on how dominant we were.

All the other manufacturers were threatening, you know, we’re not gonna compete against this car. We’re not not gonna spend the money to compete against something that we just can’t do. And their all wheel drive systems were so far advanced from anybody else’s system that, you know, it would take the other guys a long time to catch up.

Crew Chief Eric: And in that same breath of a season, you went and drove a Ferrari F 40 at the Glen and imsa. How did that. Pan out.

Mark Raffauf (IMSA): Um, yours truly at the Ferrari Museum. I throw this in there for my own benefit, but I was the guy that had to go over there and homologate this car, Ferrari F 40, which is [00:29:00] 1989, to run in GT racing, both in the US and Europe.

So whenever I go back there, they always remind me, I did two cars with Ferrari, that one, and the 3 3 3 SP prototype. So this one sits in the Ferrari Museum. Hurley Haywood actually drove it. People don’t realize Hurley Haywood drove Audis. He drove Porsches, he drove Ferrari, he drove Jaguars, he drove a lot of stuff.

But he lives and breathes. Porsches great guy.

Hurley Haywood: Don’t ask me. Team was from Italy and they brought fantastic food with him and we have these incredible luncheon, which they would cook. And you know, all the cars that I’ve driven, I’ve driven lots of different stuff. But that was really kind of a, a strange deal.

I can’t really remember what the conditions were that I had going. That allowed me to drive the Ferri in the first place. But it was so unique that everybody said, yeah, let Haywood try it. You know, see what he thinks. And let me tell you, it was a missile that was ready to explode anytime. So I don’t think we [00:30:00] really finished any race without a major problem.

And because of the mystique of the F 40 and the sort of the emotion behind that card, behind the brand. It was sort of fun to be part of that, but from a racing standpoint, it was a real truck.

Crew Chief Eric: You were kind of wishing to be back in the Audi at that point. I can imagine. Yeah. At that time there was a lot of things going on, and the struggle was real, especially with all the penalties that they were putting against and threats of banning and and everything against Audi at that point.

But when you look back, do you feel a sense of responsibility for really representing a new era of technology? I mean, you were on the cutting edge. Racing across all disciplines outside of rally. It’s like all wheel drive in racing. Look at this. I mean, obviously it had been experimented with before, but winning behind the wheel, as you said, it proved it didn’t matter the conditions, it didn’t matter the track, what they did to the car, but when you look back, what does that mean to you to have been behind the wheel of the Audi?

Hurley Haywood: You go through history, you look at [00:31:00] cars that are really, really good cars that are really bad, and I have been really, really lucky in my career that I’ve always had the opportunity to drive great cars. Very seldom in my career have I driven a car that I didn’t like most of the time. Those are with Porsches.

You know, with the Audi deal, Porsche wasn’t racing against us, so that was a cool thing to do in the interim. You know, if you look back at my racing career, I have always driven from manufacturers that had the unfair advantage. You know, look at Porsche’s, everybody was. You know, looking at us with a nine 11, basically a nine 11 that was running against Corvettes and Mustangs and all those stars, and we were wiping them up.

I mean, it was just like we wouldn’t be too great at the beginning in qualifying, but by mid race, we’d caught up and pass all those guys. So I always had the ability to drive cars that were cutting edge cars. Look at all the Porsches that I’ve driven over the years. You know, the 9 62, [00:32:00] 9 11 RSRs. I mean, all those cars were really, really fast and very, very advanced as far as the technology goes.

Same with the, the Audi, a very short period of my raising career, but I was able to drive the latest technology and had it all work in my favor. So I was used to that. I was not an engineer. One of the things that Peter Greg taught me was drive the cars as fast as you can go, articulate what’s going on to engineers and let the engineers figure it out.

Don’t you try to engineer the car? I was not an engineer and I’ve always maintained that. I’ll drive the car, come in and tell the engineers what’s going on and they can fix it, and then I’ll go out. And if it works, fine. If it doesn’t, I’ll say that wrong direction. So if I have a good car underneath me, I’m gonna do well with it.

If I have a bad car, which has not happened often, but you know, I’ll drive it to its extent sometimes that’s enough.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, when we visited the LAMA [00:33:00] chapter of your career. One of the questions we asked was, what did Lama teach you? And so I wanted to rephrase that to ask, what did the Audi teach you? What did it bring to your driving style that you carried with you to the rest of your racing?

Hurley Haywood: I don’t think I could take what the Audi was doing with me driving it and translate that into any other car I’ve driven. All-wheel drive on a race car was something that only lasted for a very brief period of time, and then all the other manufacturers and sanctioned bodies banned four-wheel drive technology because it was so good.

You kind of learn how to cope with the advantages and disadvantages of race cars that you’re driven, and we learned how to maximize that four wheel drive technology. But when that technology was then banned worldwide, that was the end of that deal.

Crew Chief Eric: Hurley in the last couple of years, there was an Audi Heritage video that came out where they brought out all the drivers and going back to the [00:34:00] Silver Arrows days, and it was a very long retrospective and homage to Audi’s racing legacy.

And so I wanted to ask you, you know, if you could climb back in to one of your cars that you drove back then, either the TransAm or the GTO, how do you think revisiting that car today would feel for you?

Hurley Haywood: In the day that technology proved to be better than anybody else’s. When you fast forward to current cars that are on today, you know it’s a driver’s responsibility to maximize the performance of any car that he’s driving.

Whether it’s a sedan, streetcar on street tires, in a kind of vintage car racing scenario, you maximize. The limits of that car. You draw that line with a sharp pen or you draw it with a big crayon, it’s your job getting close to that limit. And every car has a different limit. Every car has a different personality.

You know? Yes, we were dominant in a TransAm and GTO, but other cars. Let’s just fast forward to the 9, 9 [00:35:00] 3, the Penske car, that car. Is so good and the engineers behind that car are so good that a lot of times the competition just can’t keep up. And they, they won the manufacturer’s championship. They won the driver’s championship, and the racing was really, really good.

They’re up against really good cars. Action Express Car, the Chevrolet, the Fords, all those cars. But Porsche has made these great cars. They’ve had great engineers and that line goes through all the cars. We, we didn’t really race against any other Porsches in the TransAm and the IMSA days. They were all big block Detroit iron.

That we were up against. So Porsche kind of sat back and said, okay, let’s check this out. But they went more conventional side and the, and the conventional, like the 9 62 was brilliant. And that car’s life span was really a long period of time. It was 10 years. I won the last major race in that car in 1991.

[00:36:00] And then they canceled that program and went with more GT based cars.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned earlier, I think the key word is. Dominance. They dominated in World Rally. They dominated in TransAm. They dominated in imsa. They went on to dominate at lama. Do you think Audi can dominate in Formula One?

Hurley Haywood: You know, that’s a hard question.

I don’t know if they’re going to just supply the engine. Or whether they’re gonna supply the chassis. Formula One is a very difficult series to be in. You know, you really have, you have to have a truckload of money to make it all work. You know, the sanctioning bodies and the FIA and you know, all the people that are involved in Formula One is a hard nut to, uh, break into.

So if Audi’s willing to spend that money, then they will be successful and they’ve been successful in every racing endeavor that they’ve chosen to go into. And. We just have to see what happens.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Hurley, I gotta personally thank you for taking the time out and connecting my [00:37:00] boyhood fantasies and and dreams and watching you on television with the reality of what was going on on the track with you behind the wheel.

I mean, it’s been an absolute honor to be able to interview you, but talk about such a. Influential time when I was coming up as a motor sport enthusiast and so this has been absolutely incredible to get your insight and your view on what it was like to be behind the wheel of the Audi. So I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Hurley Haywood: My pleasure. Always have a good time talking to you.

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks Harley.

Hurley Haywood: Bye. Bye.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Hurley Haywood Returns
  • 01:54 Injury to Audi Opportunity
  • 03:21 Audi Quattro First Test
  • 04:49 Bob Tullius Team Culture & Factory Team Dynamics
  • 08:25 Quattro Dominates TransAm
  • 09:47 IMSA 90 Quattro Monster
  • 14:17 Penalties Couldnt Stop Audi
  • 16:26 Rivals Rage and BOP Politics Begin
  • 20:03 Audi Track Antics … Hans’ Mischief Stories
  • 21:53 Walter Röhrl Wisdom: Turbo Lag Techniques
  • 24:31 Le Mans 911 Turbo Reunion
  • 25:46 The Five Cylinder Sound
  • 26:41 NASCAR Talladega Test
  • 27:33 IMSA Exit Politics & The Ferrari F40 Detour
  • 30:20 Revisiting Legends Today
  • 36:04 Can Audi Win F1?
  • 36:53 Final Thanks and Outro

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Audi wanted to make a statement in U.S. motorsport. Their first test? A nearly stock Audi 200 sedan in a 12‑hour night race at Road Atlanta. Racing seat, belts… and not much else. Soon after, Hurley was invited to inspect the new TransAm‑spec Audi Quattro. Walter Röhrl was there.

Geoffrey Hewitt Photograph Collection – courtesy Revs Institute

The car looked like a sedan, but Hurley knew immediately: “This is pretty cool” And he was right.

Fast forward to Road Atlanta… It rained. Hard.

Once the Quattro hit the track, the paddock stopped laughing at the unassuming “family sedan” and Hurley finished third overall against purpose‑built race cars; and that was all Audi needed to see.

Geoffrey Hewitt Photograph Collection – courtesy Revs Institute

The TransAm Takeover: Dominance on Four Driven Wheels

Audi’s all‑wheel‑drive system — constantly adjusting torque to whichever wheel needed it — was unlike anything TransAm had ever seen. Hurley adapted quickly. Hans‑Joachim Stuck took longer, frustrated at first by the unconventional setup. But once both drivers found the rhythm, the results were devastating.

  • Hurley won the championship.
  • Audi won the championship.

Competitors were furious. Lyn St. James recalled the frustration vividly: “You’d be hanging on for dear life in a corner… and they’d just drive right by. It was maddening.” And then the SCCA banned them – “…they said four-wheel drive is not allowed” – recalls Hurley, after two seasons with Audi. Audi had created what Mark Donohue once called “the unfair advantage.”

IMSA GTO: The Monster Audi 90 Quattro

If TransAm was impressive, IMSA GTO was outrageous. Stuck won almost everything. Hurley finished second in nearly everything else. IMSA kept adding weight, restricting intakes, and tightening rules — but nothing slowed the car down. The only reason Audi didn’t win the championship? They skipped Daytona and Sebring because the car wasn’t built for endurance.  Being in a new series meant stepping away from the 200 Sedan platform, and Audi built a tube‑frame 90 Quattro with:

  • A 5‑cylinder turbo engine
  • 700+ horsepower
  • Massive tires (14 inches wide before penalties from IMSA)
  • Constant torque vectoring
  • Brutal acceleration and unmatched braking
Getting some air at Lime Rock Park. Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Hurley calls it: “One of the best race cars I ever drove.” But he’s also very clear on the subject: “You couldn’t take what the Audi taught you and apply it to other cars. All-wheel Drive in racing was banned shortly after. [again]” The Audi IMSA-era was a technological comet — brilliant, fast, and unfortunately gone too soon.


Life Inside the Audi Factory Team: Lessons From Legends: Röhrl, Stuck & Haywood

Hurley describes the Audi program as the first time he experienced a truly no‑limits factory effort: “Anything we wanted, we could have. If I asked for wood paneling on the dashboard, it’d be there the next race.” German engineers, American crew, relentless development — and a team culture so strict that even the uniforms were regulated down to sock color. Hurley admits he always wore one thing slightly off‑spec just to see if Bob Tullius would notice. He always did. But he never said a word.

Geoffrey Hewitt Photograph Collection – courtesy Revs Institute

Walter Röhrl, already a rally icon, helped both Hurley and Stuck master the nuances of all‑wheel‑drive racing. He openly shared techniques — rare among elite drivers. Hurley learned:

  • How to manage torque distribution
  • How to brake late and rotate the car
  • How to keep turbo boost alive
  • and How to exploit traction where others had none

Life after Audi: Ferraris, Porsches, and the Rest of a Legendary Career

Hurley’s post‑Audi adventures included a wild stint in the Ferrari F40 LM — a car he describes as: “A missile ready to explode at any time.”

Mark Raffauf with Hurley Haywood’s IMSA F40 at the Ferrari Museum in Italy; Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf

But his heart remained with Porsche, where he continued to win in 962s, RSRs, and GT machinery. Across his career, Hurley says he was lucky: “I’ve always driven cars with the unfair advantage.”

Me paying my respects to Hurley’s Group-44 Audi TransAm at The Auto Collection in was what the Imperial Palace (now the Quad), Las Vegas in 2013.

Hurley is candid about why the Audi era ended “[Audi] proved what they wanted to do… and the other manufacturers said ‘We can’t complete with this.'” Audi packed up and left after rewriting the rulebook, mostly due to: other manufacturers protesting, sanctioning bodies scrambling, balance‑of‑performance didn’t exist yet, and Audi’s tech was simply too far ahead. But … could Audi dominate Formula 1 in the same way? Hurley’s take is measured:

  • F1 requires enormous investment
  • Audi succeeds when they commit fully
  • Their track record suggests they could dominate
  • But the politics are fierce
  • Time will tell

Even today, Audi displays the IMSA 90 Quattro behind their Formula 1 car — not the R8 prototype — as the symbol of their performance heritage.


A Legacy That Still Echoes

Hurley’s Audi years were short — just a few seasons — but their impact was massive. They changed how fans saw all‑wheel drive. They changed how manufacturers approached technology. They changed how sanctioning bodies wrote rules. (Jump to the 6:00m, and 8:40m marks in the video below to see Hurley in this Audi Heritage extended commercial).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ24JC7slE

Audi (and Hurley) gave us some of the most outrageous, entertaining, and controversial racing America has ever seen. Hurley sums it up best: “If I have a good car underneath me, I’m going to do well with it.”Audi gave him a great one. The rest is history.


Guest Co-Host: Mark Raffauf

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Guest Co-Host: Rick Hughey

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Guest Co-Host: Lyn St. James

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FCA Concours in Pasadena

Before this Ferrari Club of America (FCA) Southwest event was called “Ferraris on Colorado” or some such, but since it was in Pasadena some thought it must be in Colorado so they changed the name. It’s still on Colorado Street, venue of the famed Rose Parade. It was a great event despite rain for the second year in a row.

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

And Ferrari ‘s US distributor stepped up again and had a display of current cars, and, a blessing to me, free coffee, mocha, lattes, etc. which would have cost you $5 or more at the nearest Starbucks. I think this offering of free refreshments “democratizes” Ferrari a little more, I mean before you would be a bit trepidatious to walk their red carpet full of $400,000-$1 million -plus cars, but now all are welcome. Even if they are a little short in their Ferrari finance bank account.

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

Most outstanding was a SR1 roadster, the single-seater (the two-seater with windscreen is the SR2), and to say it was awesome is an understatement. Now I only saw it drive from its transport to the red carpet so I can’t say what the driver uses for protection out on the road in a windshield-less car. But to see it on the road among the crowd was like seeing someone riding a white charging horse. With all the myriad of US regulations it is unbelievable that a modern automaker can make such a car that captures the spirit of the Fifties.

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

As far as old cars owned by FCA members an outstanding one of a 330GTC with a special Dino like wraparound rear roof style, Turns out the first was built for Princess de Rethy and three more followed from Pininfarina with a design that looks lightweight but stylish. One brave 250GT owner parked his car, top down, in the rain but finally put the top up to show, yes, indeed classic Ferraris do come equipped for the weather.

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

There was one old GTE, and an outfit that maintains Ferrari collections for customers displayed a squeaky clean black short wheelbase Berlinetta. I was unaware there were such firms in SoCal but now understand their need. If you have several cars, you need someone to “get one ready” for an appearance, especially if you are out of town a lot.

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

There was one Dino 246GT but Dinos were rare at the event as were Daytonas. A 275GTB was present, without a rear bumper, though it was not a Competitzione, which has a lower profile body and more air vents.

There was a presentation for several owners whose cars were judged winners rain and all. This writer was thrilled to see his old amigo, 95-year old Manhattan Beach resident Cpt. Earl Waggoner honored. He has been in Ferrari club activities in Los Angeles for well over half a century and, though now forbidden from driving due to eye problems, always finds someone to help him get one of his two Lussos to an event.

This venue is a good one, for spectators because it’s free-free-free. Even the parking is free on adjacent city streets. There are plenty of coffee shops available in a short walk (though $5 for a cuppa java is a bit Beverly Hills-ish).

Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss

I didn’t count them but I would say there were 100 Ferraris parked side by side. Enough to bring a crowd of sightseers with dogs, baby carriages, and all (and fortunately no kids on skateboards!).

  • Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss; Details on how you can acquire this painting are available at the bottom of this post.
  • Photo courtesy Wallace Wyss; Details on how you can acquire this painting are available at the bottom of this post.

From my booth selling fine art, I especially enjoyed talking design with students from the nearby campuses of Art Center College of Design, a school which has trained a notable Ferrari designer (such as Ken Okuyama who graduated in 1986 and later returned to teach there before starting his own car company). I told the students I hope they graduate while there are still internal combustion cars.

Let’s hope next year’s event will be rain free…


EDITOR’S NOTE: Wallace Wyss welcomes news of galleries who would consider consigning Ferrari art. He can be reached at photojournalistpro2@gmail.com

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Init Esports Named Official Sim Racing Partner of the CECC for 2026–2027

Partnership unveiled at 2026 May Madness and will have male and female categories to compete in online races and qualifiers nationwide with the championships held in May 2027

WACO, Texas — May 6, 2026 — Init Esports today officially announced a partnership with Collegiate Sports Management Group (CSMG) to bring sim racing to the Collegiate Esports Commissioners Cup (CECC), the nation’s largest collegiate esports championship event. The partnership was was unveiled live on May 2 during the CECC May Madness, which is produced by CSMG, in Waco, Texas, marking a defining moment for the future of collegiate motorsports gaming.

Beginning in the 2026–2027 academic year, Init Esports and the CECC will roll out a structured collegiate sim racing program designed to give student-athletes a competitive, high-performance platform to race, develop, and earn recognition. The program will feature both male and female categories, reinforcing a shared commitment to expanding access and visibility for women in motorsports.

Additional details regarding online races, qualifiers, and the full season format will be released in the coming weeks. Colleges interested in participating are encouraged to begin assembling their sim racing teams now, so they are ready to enter the qualifying process as soon as registration opens.

Sim racing belongs in the collegiate esports landscape. Partnering with Init Esports gives the CECC a world-class operator who understands competition, athlete development, and the culture of motorsports. This is a milestone for our member institutions and for every student who has been waiting for a real path to compete in sim racing at the college level.” — Angela Bernhard Thomas, Chief Esports Officer, CECC / CSMG and EsportsU

“Bringing sim racing to U.S. colleges has been a mission of ours from day one. The CECC is the right home for this program because they share our standards: real competition, real opportunity, and real pathways for both men and women. Starting in the 2026–2027 school year, every college in America can build a sim racing team and have somewhere meaningful to race. This is just the beginning.” — Stefy Bau, Founder & CEO, Init Esports

The collegiate sim racing program will operate under the CECC competitive framework with Init Esports leading race operations, athlete experience, and the technical platform. Schedules, eligibility guidelines, and registration information will be communicated through CECC and Init Esports channels in the weeks ahead.

Image courtesy Init ESports

About the CECC

Collegiate Sports Management Group (CSMG) is an integrated sports, entertainment, and media company committed to advancing traditional sports and esports. The company has expertise in Media Rights, Analytics, Licensing, Sponsorship Sales, Brand Building, Original Content, and Event Production. We empower sports properties, brands, and video game publishers to succeed at the crossroads of tech, sports, entertainment, and video games. Through innovation, efficiency and execution, CSMG has created transformative opportunities, driving growth in traditional sports while unifying and elevating the scholastic esports ecosystem. To learn more, visit us at https://collegiatesmg.com/.


About Init Esports

Init Esports focuses on sim racing events and digital tournaments. They bring eSports content to fans and sponsorship opportunities to brands, while maximizing audience reach across multiple sports, industries, and platforms. Init Esports is a woman-led company where Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Accessibility is in their DNA, and their platform aims to combat bullying and cheating to help make the eSports world as safe and fair as possible. To learn more, be sure to logon to www.initesports.gg today or follow them on social media @initesports, join their discord, check out their YouTube Channel, or follow their live content via Twitch.

At Init Esports, founder and CEO Stefy Bau doesn’t just settle for the ordinary. She creates extraordinary experiences by producing thrilling online competitions and real-life events that transcend the boundaries of the eSports universe. And she’s here with us on Break/Fix to share her story, and help you understand why you need to get more involved in the world of eSports. 

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A Guided Tour of IMSA: Mark Raffauf’s Living History of American Sports Car Racing

When The Logbook (our “History of Motorsports” series) turned its attention to IMSA, it did more than revisit a racing organization — it tapped into the memory of someone who lived its evolution from the inside. As the transcript opens, we’re reminded that few figures have shaped, documented, and safeguarded IMSA’s legacy quite like Mark Raffauf, a man who has spent over five decades inside the heartbeat of American sports car racing.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Raffauf’s keynote — delivered as the Jean S. Argetsinger Address — is part personal memoir, part technical chronicle, and part love letter to the people who built IMSA from a bold idea into a global motorsports force. His stories span eras, rule books, rivalries, and revolutions. What follows is a curated journey through that history, retold as a cohesive narrative for readers who want to understand how IMSA became what it is today.

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IMSA’s origin story begins not with a boardroom meeting, but with a conversation outside the Turn 4 tunnel at Daytona. As Raffauf recounts, it all started with a call from NASCAR’s Bill France to John Bishop — the man who would become IMSA’s founding architect. France’s pitch was simple: “We need to do a road racing program with a NASCAR business mindset behind it.”

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

That partnership, along with support from Cameron and Jean Argetsinger and the SCCA lineage Bishop brought with him, set the stage for a new era of American road racing.

Bio

Mark Raffauf’s career in motorsports embodies the ideal combination of a successful motorsports professional who has embraced the writing of history. Mark is both a fine historian and has been a key player in the success of the IMSA series from its inception to the current day. His early career coincided with the extraordinary accomplishments of John Bishop, founder of IMSA, former President of SCCA and one of the key founders of the IMRRC in Watkins Glen. Mark’s keynote address, laced with engaging anecdotal tales and an accurate, factual description of the series, covers his own colorful career in motorsports and the emergence and remarkable success story of IMSA racing over the course of more than forty years.

Mark Raffauf, currently IMSA’s Senior Director of Competition, has held IMSA positions through many iterations of IMSA and Grand-Am, including being the second president, in overall management, technical and car regulation development, as well as event, circuit, starting, and racing operations. He is the author, with Mitch Bishop, of IMSA 1969-1989: The Inside Story of How John Bishop Built the World’s Greatest Sports Car Racing Series and IMSA 1990-1999: The Turbulent Years of American Sports Car Racing.

Synopsis

In this episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsports Series, Mark Raffauf traces IMSA’s nearly 60-year evolution from John Bishop and Bill France’s founding phone call to today’s hybrid era. Raffauf recounts IMSA’s early experiments with Formula Fords/Vees, the shift to closed-wheel GT racing, the creation of Camel GT, RS/“little car” series on street tires, and All American GT, plus innovations like road-racing stock cars, Group 5, and GTP prototypes developed with the ACO to keep cars available to private teams. He highlights major manufacturers and iconic cars (Porsche 935/962, BMW CSL, Greenwood Corvette, Mazda rotary, Audi 90 GTO, Jaguar, Nissan, Toyota, Ferrari 333 SP), the growth of street races and Firestone Firehawk, rising speeds and safety limits, ownership turmoil, the IMSA split into ALMS and Grand-Am, and the eventual merger leading to today’s booming IMSA with strong OEM support and advanced hybrid prototypes.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce and the Arge Singer family.

On this episode of the Logbook, we opened with a figure whose career doesn’t just intersect with American sports car racing history. He’s documented it. Mark Raffauf has spent more than five decades inside the heartbeat of the International Motor Sports Association, better known to us as imsa. Shaping its rule book, guiding its evolution and preserving its stories with the clarity of someone who lived every chapter from the inside, from his earliest days.

Working alongside John Bishop, IMSA’s, founder and former SECA President and a driving force behind the I-M-R-R-C at Watkins Glen Mark witnessed the organization’s rise from a bold idea to one of the most influential forces in global motor sport. His path through technical leadership, car regulation, development, and event [00:01:00] operations, places him among the few who truly understand how the sport grew, fractured, reinvented itself and ultimately thrived.

In his Gene S Ainger keynote address, mark weaves together vivid anecdotes and precise historical detail tracing both his own colorful career and the remarkable 60 year arc of IMSA racing. It’s a story of innovation, resilience, and personalities told by someone who helped write the rule book and later wrote the history itself.

Mark is now IMSA’s senior director of competition and co-author with Mitch Bishop of two definitive volumes on the series. IMSA 1969 to 1989, the inside story of how John Bishop built the world’s greatest sports car racing series and imsa, 1990 to 99, the turbulent years of American sports car racing.

Together, they formed the written counterpart to the perspective he brings on the stage tonight. So without further ado, here is Mark Raffauf giving us a guided tour through 60 years of IMSA’s influence, evolution, and enduring legacy. [00:02:00] So please welcome Mark Raffauf. Thank you.

So I’m gonna try and give you 56 years of history in about 45 minutes. It’s all visual. You don’t have to read anything other than that logo. Which I was inspired last night at the theater watching the film about Cameron and Gene Ainger starting the racing here, and wanted to say that John and Peg Bishop, who are given the credit for founding IMSA with help from people like Cameron and Gene Bill France at nascar.

They’re from Cortland, jc, and Duke’s father was the one that convinced John Bishop to become the executive director of the SCCA in the sixties, which under his oversight created the Canam. TransAm and Formula 5,000. The schism that was brought up earlier or in that film about pro racing drivers versus amateur racing drivers, and the attitude of the SCCA at that time is what had John resign.

And shortly after that, he got a call from Bill France in Daytona. [00:03:00] Bill, John Cameron all knew each other from Sebring, 24 hours of Daytona, SCCA, sort of sanctioning other major events. And I wanted to start with that because kind of it all started right here along with a lot of other things. And what I’m gonna try and talk about is the people, not just the individuals, but they had groups of people they surrounded themselves with really smart people, really enthusiastic, and a passionate people for five decades through various ownerships and so on.

So I start with this. This is actually resides in the I-M-R-R-C. It is John Bishop’s original artwork of the logo of IMSA from day one. It has a little water spot on the eye up there, so he was a little sloppy with his watercolors. Anyway, it all started with a phone call between these two guys, both France on the right, John Bishop on the left.

They’re sitting outside the turn four tunnel at Daytona. Bill called him up and said, we need to do a road racing program with a NASCAR business mindset behind it. Away they went. So what was first Pocono International Raceway? This is actually the cover [00:04:00] of the program of the very first IMSA race at Pocono, which is on the little, I think it’s an eighth mile oval on the Tri Oval area.

And, uh, I don’t know that John designed it, but I bet he had something to do with it. So we started with Formula Fords. Initially there were small ovals that worked out pretty good. So Bill Fran said, well, let’s go to Talladega in Daytona with 50 formula Fords. That didn’t necessarily work as well because they ran around in big packs and had huge accidents.

So we said, okay, we’re not doing that anymore. The same time they started a Formula V program. So IMSA’s legacy and throughout its careers of five decades always had open wheel elements. John and the little staff at the time tried that. It was great racing until they crashed into each other, which all you needed was one guy to sneeze in the middle of the pack, and you had a 20 car pile up.

So we decided that wasn’t a good idea. You could see how it sort of generates into pack racing with these guys. Great stuff, but kind of scary. So what was the next idea? We need closed wheel cars. John decided he would take his background in TransAm. We’ll take those Camaros Mustangs [00:05:00] Javelins. We’ll mix it up with F-I-A-G-T cars.

Porsche nine elevens in this case. That’s I think Peter, Greg being chased by Juan Montalvo and a two liter escort from Europe. These were little GT cars and we mixed ’em up with the big GT cars. And next thing you know, in 1972, there was the Camel gt, which RJ Reynolds Tobacco came in, recognized it as a good product and away that went.

The other thing we did was we created a series for what was then the new little cars. So in this you got a Fiat, a Gremlin, a Mazda, a Pinto, and I think that’s a Volvo in the back. But John was astute enough and IMSA was a student enough to realize all these manufacturers had no place to race their new product.

So we created this and that’s when little cars, but I think the first Honda to ever race in the United States was a civic and imsa. Most of these brands, BMW and others just grew from this into gt cars and bigger cars. The American manufacturers, we had the Pinto, the Gremlin, and other similar cars. And what was great about this, they were running on street tires.

They took BFGs [00:06:00] initially, good years, shaved them down to three 30 seconds so they wouldn’t fall apart. And you could run around Daytona as an example. Tom Wall, in about 1975, did a closed course record at Talladega at over 150 miles an hour. And an A MC Hornet on street tires. Street tires on race cars, not new, but running a whole series on ’em was a relatively new idea.

So this grew great. It also provided the cars that could fill the back of the GT fields as that grew in 72 and 73, raced in the daytime, raced at night, and then we got into the mid seventies. By that point, people like Porsche, BMW Ford with their Capris. Most of the European manufacturers would build a limited run of customer race cars, Porsche Carreras or whatever.

Back then, I think Porsche made about 5,009 elevens a year. I think GM made about 300,000 Camaros. So to equate a Camaro with a Porsche was a technical. Problem. So John, and this is his original artwork, decided to apply what the [00:07:00] FIA applied to the European cars, to American cars. And he created more or less by himself all American gt.

This happens to be a Vega, which was replaced rapidly by the Chevy Mazda. And that became the mainstay, along with John Greenwood’s, big Corvettes to compete against the European brands. And that’s really where IMSA’s growth started in production car racing, which was GT cars. So that was the first A A GT car, which of course is a Vega.

Looks a little bit like the drawing, but that didn’t last long. And as back to more RS cars, this is a typical RS race at Daytona. In this same timeframe, car and driver Pinto is up there. Nick crawl, president of the SECA in the BMW in second, George Alderman who drove in the first formula forward race at Pocono is in the lead in turn one in the wet.

Lebanza Al Holbert doing an engine change during the 24 hour race, a planned engine change, which wasn’t really the best way to go about a 24 hour race, but they did it anyway. We did Formula Atlantic. We co sanctioned the Formula [00:08:00] Atlantic Series in the era of Vinu and Ray Hall and Elliot Forbes Robinson.

The Canadians did the Canadian races. IMSA did the US races. 1976. This is I think, the ski rule car that’s Vinu in the back. So this is 1976 Road Atlanta. Those of you who know the track will be stunned at what the place looked like in 1976, but you see Camaros, Porsches, la Manza. This was the Manza that first all around A A GT victory, Al Holbert in the car.

There’s four or five of these little two minute clips of video. And this wasn’t video. This was film because video hadn’t been invented yet. And just to show you what the tracks were like, what the cars looked like, and not just still pictures, but this car was the first mass produced tube frame race car before nascar, before anybody else.

14 of those were built. By Decon and three or four other constructors built cars to the same rules, but they had six liter Chevys in the front of a Chevy Mazda in a tube frame [00:09:00] chassis. But the car captured the look of the road car just as the CSL and the Corvette, which was the intent. Marketing wise.

The cars had to look like what they were supposed to look like. But you can see here the front straightaway at Atlanta, there’s no pit lane on the right as there is now. There actually was a stream over there where people would be periodically pulled out of the water and there we have it on. Al Holbert winning the first All American GT overall victory at Road Atlanta in 1976.

Those were the two main antagonists. That’s Michael Kaiser on the right with Milt Minner a lot of times, and Al Holbert who used Doc Bundy, a whole bunch of other drivers, but I didn’t want to talk too much about that, but beautiful car people remember them today and still go, you know what? For something from the mid seventies, it’s still kind of a current looking piece of hardware.

That was the antagonist for everybody, which is the Porsche, RSR. This is Mike Kaiser before he got the Mazda. But this car was sold in 1974. Brand new three liter Porsche, RSR was $23,000. Of course there’s inflation, but it still was a pretty good deal. The other great car, the air was the [00:10:00] C-S-L-B-M-W. This came about.

In 1975, the factory decided IMSA in the US was the place to race. So they gave up their touring car program in Europe and brought the whole mess. Ronnie Peterson, Brian Redmond, Zi, Alan Moffitt, they brought the whole factory deal over here. They came to Daytona, didn’t do too well. Moved into Bobby Allison shops in Hueytown, Alabama, and converted the cars from European touring cars to NASCAR stock cars with triple door bars and stiffened them all up, and then became the cars to beat because of that.

That’s a typical, let’s turn one at at Laguna in that same era, but Monza, Monza, BMW, Carl Schaeffer’s, big Block. Camaro. Porsche. Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Charlie, Kemp’s, Mustang, at the very top on the right, which was also an All American GT car. And then we decided we’d go stock car racing. So we invented American Challenge.

This is Gene Felton in a Buick Skylark. We didn’t know what we were gonna do with them, but we basically created a class, and I want to emphasize all of this stuff you see here, John Bishop and the staff at the time, we’d sit around and say, what do we need? To have for our product. Our [00:11:00] product is entertainment.

We’re not here to set the world on fire. We’re here to entertain people. Go to places like Road Atlanta and Road America and have people come and watch. This is all before television as well. So we created this, we ran ’em with our GT cars for a couple years, and then Kelly came along and we ran 10 years of.

Of American stock cars, which NASCAR tried to do at the same time. Didn’t court work out as well as ours did, but road racing stock cars was a new idea. Again, sat around one day and decided what do we need to do? We need something like that. We need these kind of cars to be on the racetrack in some way.

Again, this is Riverside BMW’s, out front Ford Capri behind Gaggle of Porsche’s. Great shot of Bert’s car. Beautiful cars, beautifully turned out. And then we got into group five. So now you see the beginning of the big wings and things, and the extended front splitters car in the back is Chris Cord’s Mazda.

The car in the front is David Hobbes and the McLaren BMW three 20. I turbo. Also a factory deal, but run out of McLaren in, in Detroit. Group five came along, and again, it was the same situation. The OE in Europe made nine [00:12:00] 30 fives, a few of these BMWs, and then they became the dominant cars. John Bishop always wanted a product that the little guy private team could win the big races in.

So Daytona Sebring, there had to be something that you were not dependent on a car company to have to have a car because after a year or two, those guys quit making ’em. So every generational shift technically in IMSA GT racing has been due to coming up with something new that would take the place of OE Manufacture built purpose race cars, and have it available to anybody who wanted to buy it.

And that was an underlying theme for five decades. That’s the other big monsters, the big Greenwood Corvettes. This particular car at Daytona in 1974 did 212 miles an hour. It pit in at Daytona. It’s the size of a small house that has a 494 cubic inch cross ram Can-Am engine in it. It’s got tires on the back big enough for a semi, but it was fast.

How did that work against the Porsches? Technically everybody got 32 gallons of gas. So 250 miles [00:13:00] at Daytona. This car was two to three seconds, a lap faster than most of the other cars, but had to make two more pit stops to get the fuel and what happened In the end, they converged, and the racing was really quite excellent because of that.

Another great shot at BMW at Sebring in the old days where you could see between the car and the big airplanes, there’s nothing. But that’s the way it was. Gives you an idea. That’s the winning car from 1975. But yeah, these constellations, DC sixes, DC sevens lined up there, they’re basically cutting them up for scrap, but there’s a little vestige of a snow fence there in front of the windscreen.

But there’s nothing between parked airplanes and the race cars. There’s a shot from Daytona same year where. There’s actually trees there, which of course have been long chopped up by spectators for firewood or whatever, but there’s no more trees in Daytona. Another good shot of Chris k Manza, mid Ohio.

Again, beautiful cars. This is now 1978 and this is a pretty important year technically. Two front row cars are factory 9 35 Porsches. One’s a customer car, which is Kramer, and the other one [00:14:00] is the martini factory car. Behind them are the two in all Terra GTP cars. GTP came about through a collaboration with the A CO and the Lamar people to develop a prototype car that a number of private constructors could build and powered by engines that anybody could buy.

So those two cars are powered by Cosworth, three Liter Cosworth, kind of a dune Formula one engine. They actually did pretty well, but a lot of people don’t understand that that was a collaboration with the A CO. It then led to bigger political issues in a few years with the FIA. But we’ll get to that. So every time we came out with new cars, Daytona’s the first race, it’s the Super Bowl race.

At no time did any new car. Beat the old cars at Daytona when they first came out until the DPI cars in the mid 20 teens. The car that won is a little 43 Hurley Haywood up there in the upper right Porsche Carre, RSR. It’s been in the game since 1974. It’s been four years and it’s still a competitive, big race winning car.

All this other stuff broke or crashed. So that’s part of it. Again, another shot [00:15:00] showing you. The first prototype of the turbo car is the Zero zero Car, which Interscope had, which was driven by Dan and Guy is Factory car, Kramer car, one of the GTP. In Alters. We talked about consequential racetracks, a couple shots from Lime Rock.

This is before the Chica. When you have 850 horsepower going up a hill. Wish was, I hate to say, kind of normal. There’s even a more dramatic one. These cars were, uh. Absolutely terrible to drive. You had to really be on your game. Very difficult to drive huge amount of power based on a standard nine 11 shell, kind of a flexible flyer until they got here and everybody stiffened them up.

Huge rear tires, tiny, small front tires. Aerodynamically, eh, not that good either. In those days you could run a twin turbo set up, or a single turbo set up with two different specifications of weight because of lag. No electronics existed yet to control turbo lag. So two small turbos. Worked a little better, but the big one made more power.

So this is a rare photograph of Peter Greg’s two cars, that road Atlanta, trying to decide which one he would race. One’s a single, one’s [00:16:00] a double. Then they morphed into, this is JLP three. They began to get Kramer body work, body work design in California. And I would say by 19 79 80, we’d have 15,930 fives on the grid.

One BMW, one or two Ford Mustang Z speed cars. But of the 15,930 fives, no, two of ’em the same. Every team got the cars hot, rotted ’em, changed them. The rules then philosophically were, if it didn’t say you couldn’t, you could, they had dry ice in the inner coolers. They had fon sprays in the intercos for qualifying, and everybody said they were cheating and we’re going, well, no, it doesn’t say you can’t do that.

So they’re just being a little more innovative than you are. Try it, see if it works for you. So it generated a lot of diversity. Hot rods. This is, uh, lagoon Deka. It’s Ray Hall on the Nine and Fitzpatrick. Whittington Brothers Ford, Zach. Speed Mustang pretty evenly matched in speed. Down the back straightaway at Daytona.

Little lock up there. Yo. But you could see Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, [00:17:00] Porsche, Porsche, Paul Newman, and a Nissan Ford. Somebody crashing the end all car. But again, we got to another point where if you didn’t have a Porsche 9 35, which you could no longer get, you had to build one out of a wreck street car or something like that.

And that’s what they did. But we got to the point where it was all the same car with one or two exceptions. So we needed this GTP concept to generate. Something new, and that was the Lola T 600. Also, the first customer, GTP car built about 15 of those. That’s J, that’s the ultimate form of the the 9 35, which by then in 82, 83 was running full ground effects.

Still a rear engine car, but the only thing left that was a nine 11 would be the front windshield cow, and side windows. The rest of it, as you can see, is heavily different from a nine 11. Again, all allowed. Shot from Daytona. These cars were great. They had mechanical waste gates. They made all kinds of weird noises.

Spectators love them. They burned a lot of excess fuel through the turbo, so every time you got off the [00:18:00] engine, you got a big flame out the back. So it was kind of spectacular to watch these cars and hear them. They were not just a visual thing, they were a great sensory overload in every regard. RS cars.

They’re still around, running around on street tires. Now you see Dotson’s Gremlins still Gremlins Mazda in the back, BMW 2002. This series created an entire industry of people that IMSA tried to establish early on who then made their entire lives their business in racing. Roger Mandeville with Mazda’s, Amos Johnson, a number of people built their entire life and business.

Starting with these cars, we always had a place or always wanted a place. And this series in particular, along later with the Firestone Fire Hawk series, provided a place for the average guy to go racing. You didn’t have to be elite, you didn’t have to have a lot of money, but you could go out, you could have a great time.

And I wanna say up till this point, one of the things IMSA did was we paid everybody something. You might have won 50 bucks back then. [00:19:00] 50 bucks was two nights in a hotel room, so you could go to registration on Sunday afternoon and get paid in cash to get home. But we did that for a decade. It was a completely novel thought process that you would actually get paid to do this even if you were last.

But that was the philosophy. We paid everybody and it was appreciated. You also got an apple at registration. When you went to get your credentials. You got Peggy Bishop would give you an apple. So that was kind of cool too. So this is a typical RS race at Daytona. Mob racing. The only thing that made it better than Formula Fours is they had fenders and the wheels didn’t come off.

So there was a lot, a lot of stuff about that, but there’s probably 10 different kinds of cars in that picture. But that was what it was all about. You know, little guys racing who then became big guys later on, and that was really important to us to make that possible. Road America First Race. Road America 500 took us a while to crack the Cliff Tufty wall as well.

But finally they realized that if they wanted to do this, they had to have a bigger race than what they had at the time. But this is the Road America 501st year. See the crowd’s [00:20:00] great. The little BMW won that race 500 miles. It’s the longest it ever ran and its entire career, which is pretty good. The pit lane, no speed limit.

A lot of brave people in my opinion, but that’s what it looks like. That’s Fitzpatrick, leaving him from a fuel stop. But that’s the old pagoda, which when, uh, Lee Hall, who was the president at the time, said they were gonna take it down, I volunteered to fly to Wisconsin so that I could light the fire on one end that would burn it to the ground, which was the easiest way to get rid of it.

Mazdas were huge technical innovations with rotary engines. They provided a 330 horsepower car for virtually nothing in money compared to piston engines, and we had lots of ’em that’s cant racing. Uh, Lee Mueller, Kathy Rud, another weird great car, the R five Turbo by Patrick, Chuck Mart. Unfortunately, he.

Was killed in it at Midio testing, but this was one of the other interesting cars that Im SA fostered sometimes writing special rules for special manufacturers to enable them to be there. The Zak speed Mustangs, again, blowing a lot of [00:21:00] unused gas out the exhaust pipe. Klaus Ludwig, Ray Hall, Kevin Cogan, great Cars, two liter turbos.

It’s gotten kind of complicated at this point. Some of the other fun things that happened. This is testing Fitzpatrick’s nine 30 5K three the week before Lama on the highway in German. So the crews would go over and build up these cars at Kramer and then take ’em right to Lama, but you had to run ’em a little bit.

So took it out on the Audubon, gave it a little stroll down the highway, right? With a Volkswagen next to it. So if you read the sign, let’s see, Doman, yeah, calm, they were, weren’t calm, basically. A lot of that stuff went on all the time. Sometimes here, but in Europe it was routine to get a cake plate, which is a Kramer plate.

It was a dealer plate, but they just stuck it on the race car and took it out on the highway. So at this point, 82, we have three series. We have Camel GT Champion, spark Plug was the RS Cars. We had a 15 year relationship with that company. 12 years with Kelly Kelly Services with the Kelly American Challenge.

And at this point we started working with Skip Barber on this Barber Sob series Open Wheel Cars, which generated people like Diego [00:22:00] Montoya, Juan Montoya, Brian hurt a lot of IndyCar people. Paul Tracy ran in Skip Barber’s beginning Pro series, but that was just starting and we were just contemplating another shot of Road America.

Crowds were starting to get quite large at this time. Late eighties, early nineties. The 9 35 kept morphing into more bizarre high speed. This is a Moby Dick version actually. It’s the end dial car done in Preston Hens colors at Road America, which you could see it’s quite a long way from a nine 11. It’s flatter, wider.

And then came this piece. This is the Lola T 600, which was the first production series built GTP car. Eric broadly told Brian Redmond, I need two orders. These cars cost $75,000 in 1981. Get me two orders and we’ll build them. And they ended up building about 15 of them. This was run by Garson Enterprises who had run Porsches and basically Brian Redmond won the first race as a true ground effects car with tunnels, which was fairly new concept at that time.

How differently the [00:23:00] car could use the racetrack over a conventional car. The downforce and aerodynamic development, two biggest changes in this kind of racing in 40 years are tire development and aero development. The engines made 800 horsepower 45 years ago that no big deal. Cheaper to make that power these days.

But arrow and tires is what move these kind of cars. And in some cases you’ll see outside the boundaries of what the race tracks could handle. John and Bill France always had a theory that the car needed to be bigger than the track, and that worked until something. Bad happened and then you had to kinda rethink that philosophy.

So by the late eighties, these kind of cars had morphed into going to every racetrack We went, for instance here before the bus stop, the end of the back strait away was about 210 Laguna Seca before they made the inner loop turned two up the hill at the bridge, 205. Mid Ohio, two 10. Every track we went to the cars were faster than Indy cars, and at the tracks we shared, like at Road America and Portland Cars actually did faster lap times in an [00:24:00] Indy car.

We were pushing that envelope by the late eighties. But again, some views very simple. This is kind of, those are familiar with Lola’s. It’s kind of like a Lola T 70 from the sixties tub with a six liter Chevy V eight. This is a Franz Lease Chaparral engine car. 75 grand. The engines were like 35, 40 grand.

So Porsche 9 35 when you could last buy one was well over $200,000 from Porsche. And this was a much more cost effective. Most of the teams that got these were not OE manufacturer related, but they were race teams. And when the business of racing and we were trying to create an environment where they could be successful as teams with sponsors and everything else.

So we kept morphing to new cars and everybody says, well, how did you think of this? Pretty simple. We needed a car that was half the price that could perform as good or better than what already existed. And then we figured out moving backwards from that end point of how to get there techniques. And what was frightening is none of us were engineers, but there were simple pieces of this, which were, the engine had [00:25:00] to be made available to anybody who wanted to buy it.

Car had to have two distinct things. It had to carry 32 gallons of gas. The driver’s feet had to be behind the center line of the front axles when the pedals were depressed. This was the era where India and F1 guys all had broken feet and legs ’cause they stuck out and they were the first thing to hit the fence.

And when they went into it. But you can watch this video from Laguna of how this car could just kind of drive around people. That’s Danny and guys in a Porsche. He just drove by him like he was tied to a tree. That’s John Paul. Same thing. He’s taking an outside line and turn 10 that you don’t normally do.

You’re in the inside and he just drove by and it’s all because of the ground. There’s another good shot of watch how it’s squares off these corners compared to the Porsche. It just was an amazing revelation because people didn’t realize what the impact of that technology would be until they saw it and went, oh.

We need to get one of these. So that was sort of the end of the 9 35. This is the first race that the car raced in and it won. It started fifth. Brian Redmond worked his way through the field, not by going any faster, but the speed the car could run. You [00:26:00] could run the whole race at, well, the nine 30 fives, the Fords, all those other cars had tire degradation.

They had too much power on two back wheels. These cars have the right amount of power, the right weight and the arrow package just made ’em really good. Another limerock shot. This is, uh, one of the coolest cars we ever developed with Audi, which also became the biggest pain in the butt for us. But this is, uh, the Audi 90 GTO car, full tube frame, five cylinder inline turbo hunch Stook, Hurley Haywood, and occasionally Walter Royal, the rally driver, who even people like hunch Stook said when he showed up.

I raced for second. The man was amazing. So this is Lime Rock again, doing wheelies up the hill. The intriguing thing was constant all-wheel drive car, which meant it applied the drive you wanted on each wheel based on the grip level that the car was sensing that it needed. It wasn’t 20% front, 80% back, it was applying that drive to the wheels as it saw it needed.

So the hard part of it was we started it out. Goodyear made ’em special tires. 14 inches wide. We realized after a couple [00:27:00] races, they didn’t go to Daytona and Sebring because they didn’t think they could finish. So. They started on 14th. We summed down two, three races, changed that to 12 and then changed it to 10, a couple races later, and the end result was, it made no difference.

The 10 inch wide tires work just as good as the 14 inch tire. Part of the reasons and the learning experience for us was technically what’s going on with a car like this is the tire degradation is way better. The load of slowing down is spread over all four wheels. The braking was much better. And the acceleration was phenomenal.

And there’s some video of people like Ook would just pass people in the dirt or the grass because the car could do that. So the rest of the guys are like, what’s he doing? He just drove me around me on the dirt. So it was an amazing car. It is probably, in my opinion, one of the coolest, most technically advanced things that IMSA created.

We did some other stuff, but this one was sort of a challenge for them and us to do this. They won the TransAm the year before with a car, an Audi 100. Made out of a real production shell. [00:28:00] This has nothing to do with that other than the greenhouse silhouette and so on, so forth. But spectacular Car two remain.

One is here in USA and one is in Germany. And the significance to Audi is when they just showed their first concept Formula One car, the car that’s behind the Formula one car in their display is that car, not the R eight prototype. That’s off to the side, but that car is right there. That embodies Audi’s performance thing, and it’s 1989.

Pretty amazing what they were able to do and how they did it. So more pictures. Here’s the L is now taken the front all the time. And then Bob Tulia showed up with Jaguars with Big V 12 engines. One of the only teams in history whose people were always dressed in white and never got dirty. Not sure how they did that, but I think they had enough uniforms in the truck that if you did, you had to go change right away.

But yeah. How many people have white crew guys, you know, beautiful car. Lee Drester design actually originated by Mike Dale, who was the head of uh, Jaguar, USA, had nothing to do with England. They didn’t want anything to do with it, so they did it here themselves [00:29:00] again. One of IMSA’s goals was to provide the industry designers constructors, the opportunity to make a living and a business in this kind of race.

So another example of that beautiful car. This is the hairpin at Miami. In the first treat races, which is the next sort of episode where we talked about racing on roads. Well, it came back with a vengeance in the eighties. At one point we had five downtown street races. Different concept, which was we’re gonna bring this show to people.

In their face, which is gonna mess up their town for at least a month so they’ll know it’s happening. Okay? The buses didn’t run. It was, we messed everything up. But when all said and done, we turned on a lot of people to the game that would not have otherwise ever seen it, and it was spectacular to watch another innovation.

The first plastic engine, it was tour on two liter. Most of the internal components are carbon or plastic, sponsored by Amaco. It actually got two podium finishes in Camel Lights. This is also early eighties. So we had a lot of innovative stuff going on and welcomed it. You know, we looked at what [00:30:00] we did as a place for people to try new things.

Some of ’em worked, some of ’em didn’t. But I threw this in here only because a lot of people don’t know about it, but. It actually scored two third places in a pretty competitive category in an engine made outta plastic. This is interesting. This is John Bishop’s original drawing, which he drew in the meeting when we started arguing with Porsche between the 9 5 6 group C car and our desire for a different kind of car.

So what’s different? We put out our GTP rules with the A CO in 1980. It required that engine to be available, no aluminum roll cages, which the FIA insisted was okay, which never was. Everyone we ever saw failed and the driver had to be behind the front axle. John actually sketched this in the boardroom at Porsche Stuttgart and showed it to him and says, here, you can lengthen it in the back or you can lengthen it in the front, but you gotta make it longer to get the driver moved.

And you can’t have aluminum roll cages, and you gotta have an engine that everybody can get. So the group C formula, for those who don’t know, was a fuel formula, more [00:31:00] endurance championship Lama took kind of the same thing, the 56 version, the group C car, which was shorter driver out front, the one that Stefan Beov was killed in its spa.

And it probably, I don’t wanna say it would be avoidable, but the way he was positioned in the car and what happened to the car was tragic. Should not have been that bad, but it did. They lasted about two years. And then finally after some bad accidents in Group C, they adopted IMSA’s GTP rules because it made sense.

And again, none of us are engineers, but we just looked at this thing and said. This can’t be right. There is a better way to do this, and we just did what we thought was correct. 9 56 is probably the least successful Porsche car in that regard. In the 62, I think they built 145 of them. So you think about that 145 race cars that started at about 300 grand and at the end a decade later were 700 grand, but they still built 145 of ’em and sold them.

So that’s what the fields kind of look like. You got a Porsche Buick, March Jaguars. We had a lot of diversity. We had nine OE manufacturers in [00:32:00] GTP in the eighties, as well as, I think five or six more in Camel Light, which was a lower division using normally aspirated engines, which is kind of where the gentleman guys went ’cause it was an easier car.

These things started getting really fast. Miami, this is what street racing was like in the early eighties. Biscayne Boulevard. On the right pit lanes to the left. You could see cars coming around. Turn one. It was amazing to do this. I remember the first race had Sterling Moss as the color commentator on tv, and he was just fascinated because street racing at that point was pretty much Monaco.

That was it. So we did this, then we did West Palm, then we did San Antonio, then we did Columbus, then we did New Orleans, and we just kept going. And the economic benefit was huge. The pushback from people whose businesses got messed up and couldn’t get on the bus and everything else was equally great.

Noise wasn’t that big of an issue because everybody knew it was gonna be noisy. Just to give you an example, race control, the high rise building on the left was a new building and we were like 20 stories up and had a commanding [00:33:00] view of the entire area. This is right along Biscayne Bay. The cruise ship port is to the left.

It was just spectacular. Great idea. Firestone Fire Hawk. All right, other great idea. We took street cars. Told everybody to take the carpets out, put a bolt-in, roll cage in it that you could take out. If we ask you to take out, in other words, it could not be firmly affixed to the car. It had to be bolted in steel fire bottle.

That was it. Belts and a seat. Go race it. So those were street cars, which everybody said there’s no fuel cells, there’s none of this, none of that. The standard of construction of these cars in that day was such that they were. Five layers of steel around the fuel tank already. It was past the Ford Pinto I explode experiences of a decade earlier.

They were pretty solid cars. We’d roll these things up and what was cool is you could wreck it on a test day, go down a dealership, buy another one, and build it overnight and go race the next day. How bad was that? But you could see there’s Dodge Chargers, BMWs, Camaros, Mustangs, just about everything you could.

Now, what happened over time? We had three or four categories. [00:34:00] Each category, we listed a group of cars, and out of that group, maybe three or four were really in that configuration, competitive with each other. Some of them were just hopeless. You didn’t wanna run eos, they were terrible, but people tried.

Picture of a Jaguar V 12, six and a half and seven liter engines based on the production Jaguar engine. Beautiful sound, very competitive. Another great picture from Sebring where you can see this Porsche is going down hangar straight at about 180. And there are people sitting in the grass to the left, and then there’s a chain link fence, and then there’s more people.

And somehow we didn’t manage to kill anybody, though. We certainly had all the parts to do that. No big accidents, but not what we do today. But this is about mid eighties. Bruce Levin’s car, Daytona at night. Just a cool shot. That’s a Nissan GTP car in the last one. And an interesting thing is the what shown this week.

Of course, with endurance racing, we got the moniker of Racing with a Difference. We race at night and we race in the rain, and sometimes we race at night in the rain, which makes it really nasty. What I’m [00:35:00] trying to illustrate here is just how people have adapted these cars to take on different race lengths, different kinds of racetrack, angling the lights out so that you could see where the wall was, was essential.

This is pre-live tv. During the races, so now it’s lit somewhat better. You can actually drive Daytona at night without headlights. People can’t see you coming, but you could see where you’re going. But back then you had to have lights and they had to work and they had to work this way. And places like Sebring, the old 5.2 mile track, part of which was that 86 Havelin car.

If you lost your headlights or your alternate or your battery went dead, there were times where guys just stopped and had to wait till the end of a session ’cause they couldn’t find their way back to the pits. That dark, certainly at speed, you wouldn’t even try to pretty, uh, heroic if you won there in those conditions.

As a driver, it was not just consequential, it was heroically consequential. Okay. Castrol Jag. These are the English cars from Walkinshaw. They replaced Jaguar finally adopted the GTP concept for Group C as well, so they were able to build new cars. Came in a variety of forms, V [00:36:00] twelves at seven liters, twin turbo v sixes.

The XJR 14, which comes up later was the Ross Bra Design Formula One designers version of a car powered by a Cosworth. But really super big program. Castrol, yours truly at the Ferrari Museum. I throw this in there for my own benefit, but I was the guy that had to go over there and homologate this car, Ferrari F 40, which is 1989 to run in GT racing, both in the US and Europe.

So whenever I go back there, they always remind me I did two cars with Ferrari. That one in the 3 3 3 SP prototype, which will come up in a bit. So this one sits in the Ferrari museum. Hurley Haywood actually drove it. People don’t realize that Hurley Haywood drove Audis. He drove Porsches, he drove Ferraris, he drove Jaguars.

He drove a lot of stuff, but he lives and breathes Porsches great guy. Daytona Castro, banking early in the morning. They won in 90 and in 88. Another beautiful piece. The ni Nissans hard to miss these cars. This is the second generation GTP car. Okay? This has got some nasty, uh, accident stuff in it. This is where I talk about how the cars exceeded the racetrack.[00:37:00]

What’s going on here is Road. Atlanta has not got a chicane. It is a flat out turn seven to turn, what is now 12, run 210. There’s a dip in the middle, the dip and the downforce. At this point, these cars were running 7,500 to 8,000 pounds rear springs. They needed springs like that to keep the car from grinding into the road.

That plus the weight of the car. You go down to a in a dip at 200 miles an hour, what’s gonna happen? The tires are gonna explode. It’s a little gruesome, but nobody got seriously hurt. Same race, both cars. There was a third one with the Toyota, which managed to get back to the pits ’cause it landed right side up.

These guys didn’t Pretty destructive. So this is when we started thinking about, okay, this stuff is simply going too fast. We don’t need to go that fast to put on a quality show. To put on good entertainment. We’re not in the business of wrecking this stuff this way. After that particular race, Goodyear refused to supply tires to these teams until they told them actually what the downforce potential would be.

’cause the cars just [00:38:00] exceeded what they could possibly do. So some other footage from this era, Holbert was the dominant car, the eighties followed by the Nissans in the late eighties. One of IMSA’s most iconic car, low and brow car. John Lamers put that one in the fence when he went out of the pits with cold tires and new brake pads.

Oops. Which is still happening today at Daytona Sebring. Again, that’s turn one. Before there was the change in the track, the original Nissan GTP car. So at this point we had five or six major factory teams. We, once again, were struggling with a private tier, could not get the hardware to be able to compete with these people.

Starting to think about what’s next when this goes. We also were made aware at the time that RJ Reynolds, because of federal law, would have to stop their sponsorship in 1993. So we had a number of things going on into the next decade. The bishops and the original stockholders, the Francis and two other groups of stockholders sold IMSA to a businessman in Tampa, who was also the promoter of the St.

Pete Grand Prix race. Mike Cohen and Jeff Parker. It wasn’t the best idea. Neither one of ’em were [00:39:00] racers. If you wanna read the gory details, I wrote a book about it with George Silverman, Mike Compatriot with this, they would do stuff like Mike was a construction guy, so he would take the purse for the 24 hours a Daytona, and he would use that to bond jobs for the state of Florida.

I could say this now because when he finally got caught up, he did 15 years state and 15 years federal, non concurrent. Just got outta jail about two years ago. It was strange days, but basically he lasted three years and then basically sold to another guy who actually was a great guy, Charlie Slater, but the guy who talked Charlie Slater into buying it.

It was the same guy that talked Mike Cone into buying it. He was the promoter at Tampa and St. Pete, both of which were temporary circuit events that failed mid nineties. In spite of all these underlying bad things going on, we exported our GT stuff first to Japan and we took, uh, anywhere from six to eight cars and helped the JAF develop what is now super gt super GT cars are essentially derivatives of the car on the right, which [00:40:00] is a 300 ZX Cunningham car built in California.

Just to show them this Nissan set this up at Fuji. There’s the road car, there’s the race car. The whole idea was to capture the spirit of the streetcar, but make it a real race car that makes it cheaper to run. We brought six or seven cars at their request. We ran two years at Fuji, one year at auto topless, I think.

So three races where they started running, uh, Nismo Skylines. A modified group A cars and started developing a tube frame structured car, which then grew into what they do now, which is very similar to this, even beyond that, without much help from us, other than bringing a variety of GTO and GTU cars and American iron and opening them up and letting all the, their mo OE manufacturers just come and look at the cars and ask questions, how they made, what do you use, and so on and so forth.

It too developed their own industry of parts and component manufacturers for their own cars, which is great. That was one of the big goals of IMSA was always to focus on that. Chevy Intrepid, Wayne Taylor, 1991. [00:41:00] 1991, was the most successful GTP year because every OE manufacturer won at least one race, which rarely happened.

The last nine 60 twos. This is Rob Dyson’s. Quite a bit different than the earlier Holbrook pictures, A lot more arrow stuff on it. Triple element wing on the back, which originally was one element. The car won races in 1984, and it won its final race in 1993. And the reason I bring that up is the original layout of A GTP car.

John Bishop drew on a piece of paper in his office in front of myself, Roger Bailey and Charlie Rainville, and that drawing remained in the IMSA Rule book for a decade. Unchanged. So when people talk about stability, people like Rob Dyson invested in these cars and he raced them for 10 years. Modified ’em, but it’s the American hot rod mentality.

You gotta fix it somehow. There’s the XJR 14 brilliant car. Look at the size of the arrow device. On the back of that. The spray gives you some idea what’s going on, but the air going under the car. This car, Davey Jones said many times, 73 to 7,500 pound rear springs on it. But it’s basically a Formula One car with a three and a half liter engine.[00:42:00]

Widen tub holding 32 gallons of gas. Great little car, super quick. Davey Jones was one of our really good drivers, but the best company I ever heard was Tony Dow, who managed the British cars, said uh, Davey Jones has wrecked every model of GTP and Group C car we’ve ever made at least once. So you know, you got guys that are really fast, but you gotta expect them to damage the hardware occasionally or total it as he did a few times.

Then came the Toyota’s. This is gurney’s effort. These cars were culmination of three generations of previous designs that became the dominant cars. What’s really unique about this car is if you notice, there’s no holes in it other than the hole in the front. All of the air going through the car created, added down force inside the car on a second floor, all the air for the radiators, intercos, and the only thing sticking out of those two little black things, which are brake ducts for the rear brake, but everything else went through the car.

The tall scoop on the side was an intake for the turbo, just because it needed the cleaner air, because at the time the air got from the front to the engine bay for the turbo was [00:43:00] pretty agitated. These cars also ran 7,500 pound springs. It was a 2.1 liter engine running 125 inches of boost and could make if they wanted a thousand horsepower out, a two liter.

They didn’t run that long that way, but it was there if you wanted it. Great cars having gurney in the series from GTU to GTO to GTP for close to a decade was a treat. Wonderful man. That was the year they won 24 hours, 93. We had carbon breaks by then, as you can see. So Japan, here’s the group of cars we took to our topless.

Seven of them, the whole group. That was a lot of fun. The Japanese were great hosts, but they also, you know, you see some of them, we had Exxon at that time instead of Camel. So because it was international, half the cars had so on it because they were still using Theso name overseas and not here, but Exxon was the US that’s pouring rain at Fuji Lightener, GTU car and the two Cunningham, GTO cars in the.

This is another weird car. This is the most successful Porsche car ever raced. This is the [00:44:00] Jaguar Bud Light car that you saw earlier. With the rain coming out the back, they cut the roof off of it. Well, first what they did was they sold that car to Mazda, who ran it in Group C with a Mazda badged Cosworth engine, same car, but they changed it from a Jag to a Mazda just by putting Mazda covers on the engine.

And they did that for about three, four months and decided that wasn’t worth it. So Val Perez, Indiana, they had two or three of these chassis and. Tony Dow Max Welty, who was the Porsche head of Motorsport at Allen Springer in California, go. We need to do something with these. What’d they do? They drop the 9 62 spec engine in the back of one of these things, which cut the roof off.

Reinforced the roll cage structures you could see with forward and rear braces. This is Mario Andrei testing it at Charlotte and it’s the most successful car because in 1995 with the beginning of world sports cars, which side story? We knew in 93 no more GTP cars. So we had a new sponsor, which was Exxon.

They had two requests, make the cars look different because we don’t want to be viewed as taking over someone else’s old stuff. And [00:45:00] two, we need more of ’em. So the whole idea, again, was another technical shift to develop a car that private teams could buy and run. And so the World Sports Car was born. I bring this one up because it’s so unique.

It only raced in our races once after the roar. The test at Daytona in the beginning of January. Kramer had a CK five, which was a similar car made out of a 9 62 chassis. He brought one. Porsche brought two of these and we changed the rules on ’em between then and the race because we recognized that we really didn’t set up world sports cars for turbos.

We were trying to extend an arm to Lamar to go, you need to get rid of what you were now running, which are GT one cars and McLaren F ones. Porsche GT one cars, which at the time cost about $1.5 million a piece unavailable to everybody. Factory made so many and that was it done. So you’re limiting your field.

You’re not looking forward about how you’re gonna sustain this. So we needed cars like this that customer cars could be made out of existing stuff. So it never raced at Daytona that [00:46:00] year. However, the Kramer CK five, the older version, won the race under the rules that Porsche didn’t like with the same engine.

I say it’s the most successful. It ran Lama twice, won both times. Finish second. A third time, and then no finish. Second at Petite Lamont. 19 98, 3 years later, we also extended a series to, um, central and South America, the NA Cam, Marlboro GT series. Again, IMSA Cars, IMSA Rules, IMSA teams, a place for them to sell their cars.

Another good view of the World Sports Car taking the roof off. That’s, uh, Andy Wallace, or might be Derek. And you could kind of see who was driving the car and what he was driving it with. So it was kind of a good view. James Weaver and Rob Dyson’s Spice with a Ferrari engine in it. Again, all that stuff was generally available.

Wayne Taylor won the first championship in a rotary powered car by not winning a race, but finishing in the top five, I think, 12 times. The car of the decade is clearly the 3, 3, 3 sp. This car again, I went to Ferrari with Jumpier. Met with Montezemolo and Pirro Ferrari and said, we need a customer car. So they committed to making this car solely [00:47:00] for customers.

Ferrari never ran one themselves. Pure customer car is exactly what we wanted. It wasn’t that expensive as Pirro Ferrari said. The little badge on the front end, that’s $25,000 just to get the little badge on it ’cause it’s a Ferrari badge. So there was a little inflation to that. But you bought a car, you got an engine.

Four corners, and a full body and a transmission. For about three quarters of a million dollars and that was most of the parts you needed to run a whole season, including the car. It’s a great deal. Rob Dyson. The other great car was the Riley. Many engine combinations in it. Great shot of the Ferrari. They spit flames out the back and made great noises with a V 12 turning 12,500 RPM.

It’s magic spectators loved them. GT cars still the mainstay. 99 Audi and BMW showed up at this point. The A CO and the FIA adopted IMSS W World Sports Car Rules, but then had to put their mark on it so they put bigger engines in it and put aerodynamic diffusers on ’em on cars that weren’t designed to have ’em, which immediately obsoleted all the Ferrari and made the Audi and the BM BMW cars.

That’s a six liter V 12, the car to [00:48:00] have. As you can see here, all the old cars are in the back. The two Panos is the two BMWs. The Lowell is a new car, but then you got the Ferrari’s and the Riley’s in the back, and they could no longer compete with the cars at the front. Grand Dam comes along 19 99, 19 97.

George Silverman and I left when Andy Evans acquired imsa, which was the fifth owner in seven years, and decided we didn’t like to work under his ethics. So IMSA got split in half. Half of the people, the management and. Director type level people ended up in NASCAR Daytona, the rank and file people, part-time.

People that ran the races as race staff ended up getting the contract to run the A LMS with Don Panos program. Again, new car. We had to get rid of the old world sports cars again. Grand Dam did Daytona prototypes. Interesting design Ford. Lexus. Lexus. Ford. That’s Adorn, which became a Dara Riley. So what happened there was the benefit Grand Am had was at the time International Speedway Corporation.

We had Daytona, we had Watkins Glen, we had [00:49:00] Phoenix, we had Fontana, we had racetracks that we owned that let us race there reasonably. The A LMS had Sebring in Atlanta, and we both would pick up mid Ohio or Three Rivers or some other events to build out a schedule. We used to go to the Glen twice. We used to go to Daytona twice, but basically for about six or seven years, these two things ran in parallel with opposite philosophies.

One was cost effective, lots of cars, all prototypes in that shot, there’s no GT cars. A LMS had OE Manufacturers spending a lot of marketing dollars. But they didn’t have very big fields or lots of cars. They had a connection with LAMA and eventually, by the early teens, I don’t wanna say one was better than the other, they were two different philosophies.

But Grand Am had pretty much caught up and passed TV viewership on the car count, and on the spectator attendance at events. And then the smarter people got involved and said, why don’t we combine these two things and make something better? And that’s where we are today. We also did some cool stuff. This is Mike Shank, breaking the World Close Course Speed [00:50:00] record at Daytona, which was held for 20 something years by the Mercedes C one 11 done at Nardo in Italy, which I think is a seven mile or nine mile oval.

He beat it with a three liter eco-boost turbo production engine. You could see the line. You could see the four decimal points, pretty high tech stuff when we would do stuff like that along the lines of Bonneville. Then DP version three. These are the Corvettes. The final version, there were three generations of DP cars and A LMS.

You have the Audi, the Corvettes. They were definitely the A LMS cars. Panos. This is a classic end of race. This is Yorg Burmeister, and I forget who’s driving the Corvette. It’s not very friendly at all, as you can about to see. Oh yeah. See that? That’s a wall that was to the flag. So the Porsche won the race.

The Corvette was second, but crossed the line backwards shedding parts, but luckily I didn’t have to have anything to do with that. Vipers another Corvette. Beautiful cars. Now we’re getting near the end. This is D-P-I-D-P-I [00:51:00] followed the merger between two years of running A LMS and Grand Am Cars together, and then creating a new car.

This is very similar to the car we have now without the hybrids. So at this point, IMSA is starting to really boom. When I say boom, record crowds great TV numbers, social media is, is exploding and it just grew from this point to where we are today. This was last lap at Petite Lamar. Diehard passed, but he’s going so slow.

The car he is trying to pass past them going down the hill and he still finished second. We don’t push for that, but it’s so competitive and so close. People talk about BOP and all the rule stuff. We’re working margins of 0.03%. Where some of the teams, the two drivers cannot drive the same car on the same day within that number, and yet the manufacturers want us to fix that.

It’s like, no, some ending ones. We do this now every year at Daytona. That’s the field for the Rolex 24, probably two years ago. Turn one SE bring just GT cars this time. Huge. We have 18 OEM [00:52:00] partnership agreements with car manufacturers. Most of anyone in the world right now, Penske’s, Porsches, Roger Penske, said when they first tested this car in Barcelona, these are the most technically advanced race cars on the planet, including Formula One, IndyCar.

Anything else? They are made with stuff that was not off the shelf. Everything in these cars, hybrid wise, battery wise, MGU Wise was developed specifically for this. Again, in order to have a life until now, 2030. So we’ll be using this componentry and it has scalability for another five years. Easy. Cars are really cool.

They do really great things. They leave the pits on the electric, they have no alternator, and they just hit the ignition button and the car starts itself from the electric. It’s got an 800 volt battery in it. The 800 volt battery can give it 150 more horsepower, not on demand, but over a period of time.

It regenerates itself when you’re on the brakes and when you disengage the clutch, the input shaft, that’s where the MGU works is the input shaft BMWs. They just debuted [00:53:00] their second generation of the car at Daytona last weekend. Here you have Aston Martin, and again, off we go. So Daytona tells us the Rolex 24 now is the second most profitable event at the racetrack after the Daytona 500.

So road racing and sporty car stuff has come a long way, but you can see how quick these things are at Daytona. Now they’re slightly over 200. I threw this in just to give some idea of IMSA and the Corvette from the third car from the top. It is all IMSA, A LMS, grand Am. Corvettes first two? No, the third one is a Greenwood, so that’s where it starts, but it’s kind of a neat photo to show how GM is used.

Motorsports and Corvette, final picture, that’s the Bishop France trophy. Every champion of every class. In the overall division, G-T-O-G-T-U-G-T-X-G-T-P, on the front straightaway in front of the new tower building at Road Atlanta with the Michelin man on it. And uh, I’m done. Thank you.[00:54:00]

Where all the pictures came from. I am sure there’s some questions, mark. That was absolutely fabulous and I don’t know if we wanna open it up for questions. How old were you when you started, uh, with John Bishop? I was, had just turned 16 in the spring of 1974 and I did my 50th 24 hour race this year of only two years.

One year I was actually kind of helping John Cooper at the Speedway after Andy Evans took over. George and I went over there at their request and then by 99 I was over there regularly beginning to make Grand Am for. Bill Junior and Jim Franz been a great run. I think the most important thing, which I could talk to, you know, the cars are cool and the events are cool and I took a lot of notes, but the people.

Do you have the opportunity to work with your parents, John and Peg Bishop? Priceless. You know, I’ve been given great guidance, great teachings was told. Day one, you can make every mistake you want. Once, second time we’re gonna start thinking you’re stupid. And I said, okay, I don’t wanna be stupid. That was direct quote.[00:55:00]

This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports spanning continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Meet Mark Raffauf
  • 02:14 IMSA Origins Bishop & Bill France
  • 03:55 First Races Open Wheel
  • 04:53 Closed Wheel Camel GT, Small Cars w/ Street Tires
  • 06:32 All American GT Era
  • 10:42 American Challenge Stock Cars
  • 11:39 Group 5 Turbo Monsters
  • 13:48 GTP Arrives Daytona 1978
  • 15:20 935 Evolution And Innovation
  • 18:11 Privateers Payout Philosophy and the Road America Breakthrough
  • 22:29 Lola T600 Ground Effects
  • 26:14 Audi 90 GTO Quattro
  • 28:28 Jaguars Take Over
  • 29:11 Street Races: Miami and the Downtown street racing boom!
  • 29:42 Wild tech experiments
  • 30:13 GTP rules vs Group C
  • 33:06 Firehawk showroom racers
  • 34:47 Night racing survival
  • 36:54 When speed got dangerous
  • 38:46 Ownership turmoil and exports
  • 40:57 GTP peak and aero wars
  • 44:49 World Sports Car era
  • 46:46 Ferrari 333SP dominance
  • 48:11 Split into Grand Am and ALMS
  • 50:57 Merger to modern IMSA
  • 51:49 Hybrids and today’s grid
  • 53:53 Closing remarks and sponsors

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IMSA’s first races were held at Pocono, where Formula Fords circled a small oval. The concept worked — until it didn’t. Pack racing led to massive accidents, and the organization quickly pivoted.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

From there, IMSA began experimenting with:

  • Formula Vee
  • Closed‑wheel GT racing
  • Mixed‑class fields featuring Camaros, Mustangs, Javelins, and Porsche 911s
  • Small‑bore “RS” cars like Pintos, Gremlins, Fiats, and early Honda Civics

This willingness to adapt became a defining IMSA trait. As Raffauf puts it, the goal was always to create “a product that the little guy private team could win the big races in.”


The Rise of GT Racing and the All‑American GT Concept

By the mid‑1970s, European manufacturers were producing limited‑run customer race cars — Porsche Carreras, BMW CSLs, Ford Capris. American cars, built in vastly larger numbers, couldn’t compete under the same rules.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

So Bishop drew a new path forward.

Literally.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Raffauf shows Bishop’s original hand‑drawn artwork for the All‑American GT (AAGT) concept — a rulebook designed to let American iron compete fairly with European machinery. The Chevy Monza, Greenwood Corvettes, and other tube‑frame monsters became IMSA icons.


The Era of Wings, Turbos, and Ground Effects

As the 1970s gave way to the 1980s, IMSA entered its wildest period:

  • Group 5 “wings and things”
  • Porsche 935 dominance
  • BMW’s factory CSL and 320i Turbo programs
  • The birth of GTP prototypes

Raffauf describes the 935 era vividly — cars with huge power, tiny front tires, and “flexible flyer” chassis that demanded absolute precision. Teams innovated aggressively because the rules allowed it: “If it didn’t say you couldn’t, you could.”

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

But the arrival of the Lola T600 changed everything. With true ground‑effects tunnels, it could simply drive around the old GT cars. It was the first customer‑built GTP car, and it set the template for the next decade.


Street Racing, Stock Cars, and the Expanding IMSA Universe

IMSA wasn’t afraid to take risks — literally. The organization brought racing into downtown Miami, West Palm Beach, San Antonio, Columbus, and New Orleans. Raffauf recalls how the series “messed up the town for a month,” but also brought motorsports to people who’d never seen it before.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Meanwhile, IMSA also experimented with:

  • American Challenge stock cars
  • Firestone Firehawk street‑car racing
  • Skip Barber open‑wheel development series

These programs created opportunities for grassroots racers and future stars alike.


The Audi 90 GTO: A Technical Marvel

One of the most fascinating chapters in Raffauf’s talk centers on the Audi 90 GTO, a full tube‑frame, all‑wheel‑drive monster that defied expectations. Despite IMSA narrowing its tires from 14 inches to 10, the car remained dominant thanks to its ability to distribute power dynamically across all four wheels. Raffauf calls it “one of the coolest, most technically advanced things that IMSA created.”

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives


The GTP Arms Race and Its Consequences

By the late 1980s, GTP cars were exceeding the limits of the tracks themselves. Raffauf recounts violent tire failures at Road Atlanta caused by extreme downforce and 200+ mph speeds over dips the circuits were never designed for. This era produced legendary machines — Nissans, Jaguars, Toyotas, Porsches — but also forced IMSA to rethink safety and sustainability.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Ownership Turbulence and Reinvention

The 1990s brought financial and organizational upheaval. Raffauf describes owners who mismanaged funds, temporary circuits that failed, and the eventual split that led to:

  • Grand-Am (under NASCAR/ISC)
  • The American Le Mans Series (under Don Panoz)
Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Despite the chaos, IMSA continued innovating, exporting its GT concepts to Japan and South America, and helping shape what would become Super GT.


World Sports Cars, Ferrari 333 SP, and the Road to Modern IMSA

With GTP ending, IMSA introduced the World Sports Car formula — open‑cockpit prototypes designed for private teams. The standout was the Ferrari 333 SP, a pure customer car that became one of the most beloved prototypes of the era.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

This period also saw:

  • Daytona Prototypes (DP); and the Birth of DPi
  • The eventual ALMS/Grand-Am merger
  • The rise of hybrid racing machinery

By the 2020s, IMSA had become a global powerhouse with 18 OEM partners and some of the most advanced race cars on the planet.


A Legacy Written in People

Mark Raffauf’s keynote isn’t just a recounting of motorsports history — it’s a firsthand account from someone who shaped the rulebook, lived through the politics, and helped guide IMSA through five decades of reinvention. His stories remind us that racing is as much about people and ideas as it is about machines.

Photo courtesy Mark Raffauf, IMSA Archives

Raffauf reflects on working with John and Peg Bishop, the France family, and the countless passionate people who built IMSA’s culture. One line from his keynote captures his philosophy perfectly: “You can make every mistake you want — once. Second time we’re going to start thinking you’re stupid.” – It’s blunt, funny, and deeply human, much like IMSA’s history itself.

Available as a bundle from Octane Press!

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.


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Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:
  • Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-war American Road Racing (2006)
  • Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed (2009)
  • Formula One at Watkins Glen: 20 Years of the United States Grand Prix, 1961-1980 (2011)
  • An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500 (2019)

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Motoring Podcast Network

B/F: The Drive Thru #67

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Break/Fix’s Drive Thru News Episode #67 recaps April’s automotive news and oddities, starting with economic turmoil and fuel changes: extended E15 use, ethanol’s impact on economy, evaporation, water absorption, and rubber seals, plus brake-fluid hygroscopy and the wider impact of diesel shortages on shipping and heating oil. The hosts criticize Volkswagen’s EV strategy (Touareg EV talk, China-only Jetta SUV, ID model struggles, layoffs, potential government aid) while noting nostalgia tie-ins like Hot Wheels R32s. Other topics include Stellantis’ Poissy plant shifting to parts/recycling, a modern Fiat three-wheeler, Morgan’s BMW-powered Supersport pricing, Cadillac Blackwing discontinuation, a C8 Corvette stop-sale over turn-signal software, Toyota RAV4 GR Sport badging, a Pininfarina NSX restomod, Nissan heritage parts, Smart’s new EV concept, Tesla Roadster skepticism, Florida drone speed enforcement, insurance non-payment without collision coverage, a truck climbing a Lamborghini, NASCAR EV plans, Lance Stroll’s GT3 result, sim-racing updates, and a Lemons Focus project update plus upcoming events.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

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This is your fast lane to the latest in automotive culture, powered by a coalition of passionate publishers and insiders. From the vintage elegance of Garage Style Magazine to the high-octane listings of Exotic Car Marketplace, and the deep historical dives of The Motoring Historian, our coverage is enriched by voices that live and breathe the motoring world. Whether it’s the eclectic archives of Motorcopia, the endurance grit of Enduroverse, or contributions from other trusted partners, each segment delivers sharp, informed perspectives straight from the garages, paddocks, and showrooms that shape the scene.

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**All photos and articles are dynamically aggregated from the source; click on the image or link to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors, publishers or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.


Show Notes & Supporting Stories

For a list of all the articles and events referenced on this episode check out the show notes below.

Domestics

EVs & Concepts

Formula One

Japanese & JDM

Lost & Found

Lower Saxony

Lowered Expectations

Motorsports

Lance Stroll + GT3 = Epic Fail!

News

Stellantis

Tesla

VAG & Porsche

Track Side Report

The Unfocused Performance Lemons Focus is finally starting to look like a race car—well, a race car with ADHD. We’ve installed new motor mounts and a fresh clutch, because with 237,000 miles and an “unknown history,” we figured it’d be smart to avoid spending our first 20 minutes of the race stranded on the side of the track. The brakes and tires are next on the list, and the car’s still waiting for its full Lemons-grade decoration treatment. If you’ve got artistic flair, spare parts, or even a few bucks to toss our way, we’d appreciate it—this chaos gets expensive fast.

CHECK OUT THE BUILD UPDATE ON THE GTM CLUBHOUSE SITE.

Our debut race has shifted from Mid‑Ohio to the Real Hoopties of New Jersey 2026 at New Jersey Motorsports Park, June 5–7. We’ve got drivers committed, a car that’s almost ready, and a paddock that’s always open. Spectating at Lemons events is free (we think), and it’s absolutely worth it—imagine 100+ cars starting on a 2.5‑mile track in glorious, noisy disorder. Brad won’t make this one, but he’s suiting up for October and eyeing Road Atlanta in December to close out the season. The design’s still “blurry,” but that’s fitting—after all, we’re Unfocused Performance.

Would you like fries with that?


Behind the Scenes

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

TRANSCRIPT

Executive Producer Tania: [00:00:00] Welcome to Break Fixes, Drive-Through News, your monthly recap for everything fast, fascinating, and usually four wheeled. We’re serving up a fresh batch of automotive headlines, motorsports madness, and car adjacent curiosities, all with zero wait time and maximum flavor from Formula One, drama to concept car debuts with Garage built legends.

To the Quirkiest stories rolling out of the state of Florida. We’ve got your fix, so grab your coffee, buckle up, and let’s cruise through the latest in the world of wheels with a side of entertainment and just a dash of tire smoke.

Crew Chief Brad: Let’s see. This is April. Hello and welcome to Drive through episode number 67.

We

Crew Chief Eric: don’t do that anymore.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, I’m sorry. I thought this was a podcast where we don’t say anything.

Crew Chief Brad: You’re killing it. You’re killing it right now, Tanya. You’re doing so good. I’m so proud of you.

Crew Chief Eric: We don’t have a formal showcase, but I don’t know what should we label this because the headline read. The word war.

You know, we have department of war [00:01:00] now, the war and the war, but it’s not a war. It’s a conflict. But then I heard there was another way to describe it. Isn’t that right Tanya?

Executive Producer Tania: An excursion.

Crew Chief Eric: We’re going on an excursion to the desert apparently.

Crew Chief Brad: I see what Eric’s talking about. The war. The war.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t think we’re quite there yet.

No. I feel like it’s just a bunch of the do moments here and I’m gonna just come out swinging. This is comes from car scoops, right? The Iran War War. Again, excursion, conflict, whatever adjective you want to use to describe it could end tomorrow and the auto sales industry will still lose. A million sales.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s been ending tomorrow for about three weeks, I think.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, yes, we’re in the middle of like the most economic turmoil ever. Who’s gonna run out and go buy a supercar?

Crew Chief Brad: YouTubers, Instagram influencers, tiktoks.

Crew Chief Eric: None of the rich and powerful Middle Eastern are gonna buy a [00:02:00] supercar right now. I think they’re a little busy.

Wouldn’t you say what kind, what, what is this reporting? What, what is this stuff? Uh, but no, in in seriousness though, another side effect of all of this that’s going on, and I think this next one was brought to light even before the excursion started, which was the dilution of our fuel to maintain the E 15 that we use in the winter throughout all of May as we head into the hotter days.

And Tanya, I know you’ve been out of the business for a while, but can you explain what this means and like how this actually works? Because I think it’s important for us to discuss.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, it means poor fuel economy.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, why is that? Because I don’t think a lot of people understand what the E 10, E 20 E 15 actually means.

I’ll put it in layman’s terms. That’s a percentage of alcohol that’s in mixed,

Executive Producer Tania: it’s a percentage of ethanol. So the 10 is 10%. 15 is 15%. Although, so it’s really meant to be an octane booster ’cause it has a higher octane number. So it’s good if you’re [00:03:00] trying to prevent engine knocking or something, but doesn’t have as much combustion capability, I guess to put it simply as gasoline does.

So you’re not actually getting as good a fuel economy than if you’re using straight gasoline. So depending on what they’re pricing it at, you’re not actually saving anything. If they keep the price at $5 a gallon and now it’s more ethanol and you’re getting worse fuel economy, then you’re going to the pump quicker.

Crew Chief Eric: So the rule of thumb I heard in racing was. It takes twice the amount of alcohol to make the same power as gasoline. Right? I mean, that’s probably a stretch.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, they say it’s like 30% less energy per gallon than gasoline, so I mean, that’s not insignificant.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: But the bigger problem with extending it into the hotter months, the way I understood it, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that it tends to evaporate quicker.

In the hotter days, especially when the car heats up and the tank heats up and we have all these evap systems that let the fumes escape. [00:04:00] So basically your tank is emptying itself as the alcohol evaporates out of the fuel.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes, and it also has a problem that ethanol will absorb water from the air. So it’s particularly bad.

I mean, maybe that’s less impactful if you’re constantly using your carb. That’s why they say it’s not good to leave ethanol or fuels with ethanol like in a lawnmower that you button up for the winter or some other piece of equipment that that you don’t use. Or even a car if you’ve got a garage queen that you don’t drive very often because the ethanol actually absorb water and now you’re gonna have water and then it’ll separate and you’ll have a water phase and then a fuel phase.

And obviously that’s no good when you go to go combust.

Crew Chief Eric: Chemical term for that is hydroscopic. Is that right?

Executive Producer Tania: That it likes water

Crew Chief Eric: or hydroscopic? I can’t remember. Remember. I wasn’t very good at chemistry.

Crew Chief Brad: I think it’s called bend over and Open your wallet.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, I grow scopic.

Crew Chief Eric: And the reason I bring that up is because brake fluid [00:05:00] suffers the same problem.

And I don’t think a lot of people realize that if you go too long on your brake fluid and don’t flush those fluids out, you end up with water concentrated in your brake fluid. And there’s tests where it, there’s like these litmus sticks. You can stick in there to see, you know, the potency of your brake fluid.

But realistically, Brad, you just went through this on your tundra changing brakes and it’s like, well what about the brake fluid?

Crew Chief Brad: Thankfully I changed the brake fluid over the, the winter when I had my inspection done because it was on my list of fluids to change just in the maintenance schedule. The breaks themselves were not, but the fluid was so, yeah.

Um, but yeah, you’re, you’re right. And it’s probably, I’m assuming it would mean the same thing for like clutch fluid and trans, well, probably not transmission fluid ’cause that’s always moving, but

Crew Chief Eric: that’s hydraulic fluid. So it’s different.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. I mean the other bad thing is ethanol is and alcohol. What does alcohol like to do to things?

Crew Chief Brad: Make ’em drunk.

Executive Producer Tania: Make it what? Make it drunk.

Crew Chief Brad: Our cars all need to go to AA now. There [00:06:00]

Executive Producer Tania: you go. Alcohol, things like that aren’t usually good on rubber parts.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Dries out rubber. So all your seals, all your hoses, all that stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t need dried out hose,

Crew Chief Eric: which is particularly important when you’re talking about classic cars.

Especially cars pre 1980. I mean, they run on the newer fuels as long as you burn through ’em. But to your point, Tanya, if they sit for extended periods of time, you’re risking damaging something in the system that could be catastrophic and extremely expensive.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. I mean, not only, I mean, they’re probably more prone to dissolve rubber, which would be even worse.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: And so, I mean, that’s why, again, I think it’s not recommended for motors, whether it’s a lawnmower or a boat even that sits. For a long time, or your garage queen.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, and the reason I wanted to bring it up and talk about it as an important thing is car show season is upon us. People are taking ’em out.

They’re cleaning [00:07:00] them up. They’re filling them up after sitting over the winter, and they might not be thinking about the amount of alcohol for ethanol that’s in fuel right now. And if you’re getting a higher dosage, you know, upwards of 20% at some of the stations, then you only take it to a car, show a couple miles away or whatever, and then you let it sit for the rest of the summer, you’re gonna be in deep trouble come the fall.

Executive Producer Tania: Honestly, I had that thought when I heard that and I was like, man, I really need to stretch the legs on the gt. But I’m like, I probably need to add fuel to it. Well, I guess I’m not gonna add fuel now ’cause it sits for a pretty long time and I don’t wanna put that in the tank.

Crew Chief Brad: You just need to run out to the track and get some from Summit Point.

Or I can bring some up from I stop. I can stop easily Stop by, uh, dominion.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Get some a hundred octane or 110 race fuel. That is the option for a lot of cars.

Crew Chief Brad: You’d give it the old Italian tuneup?

Crew Chief Eric: Hell yeah. Yeah. A hundred octane At a hundred mile an hour. Let’s go. It clears out all the carbon.

Crew Chief Brad: It’ll, it’ll give that car [00:08:00] what?

115 horsepower?

Executive Producer Tania: That 110? I’ll have 111.

Crew Chief Brad: I will say there was a, a Wawa, I think it was at the Wawa down the road where they gave me the option for ethanol free gasoline.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, so they just built a new sheet up here too, and they have all the colors of the rainbow as we like to refer to ’em. ’cause sheets, colors. They’re fuel pumps. So you know, red is this and Diesel’s green.

And the blue fuel is the Flex fuel ydi. And not all of them have it. The ones in Pennsylvania for sure have the, all the colors of the rainbow. And they have an orange, which is an ethanol free, it’s not quite like a hundred octane, but it’s designed for the older cars that can’t run, you know, between 10 and E 15 and all that kind of stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. I think the, the Wawa had a black one for the ethanol free, a green one for diesel, and then some other rando color for, or maybe it was yellow or something, I don’t know, whatever. Right. But they, they, they kind of had it color coded as [00:09:00] well. I was like, Hmm. Not too often that you see ethanol free fuel these days.

Crew Chief Eric: And this is all a result too, of, you know, the petroleum situation that we’re in right now. But more importantly, there was another article that was again, sort of like a de do moment in that diesel production has always been stifled, especially in this country. And it’s down right now on top of everything else, which is why you’re seeing the price of diesel escalate so much faster than gasoline.

And people might be listening to this and saying, who cares? I don’t have anything diesel. I don’t care about diesel. Well, do you care about the packages being delivered from Amazon, from UPS? ’cause all those are diesels and the trains that move them across the country, those are diesels and the semi trucks that moved them from the trains to the Walmart.

Those are diesels and a lot of generators and construction equipment. Diesel, diesel, diesel. And to make it even worse, there’s a lot of people out there that heat their homes on home heating oil, also known as wet folks, [00:10:00]

Crew Chief Brad: diesel.

Crew Chief Eric: Diesel. Exactly.

Crew Chief Brad: The good thing about that is at least we’re heading into the warmer months, right?

At least we’re a lot of the country. So it, those people should see. I don’t know if they’d see relief, but it shouldn’t see it escalate as much as they normally would if we were heading in the winter.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And I, I think the timing was like just right, that it started to escalate, you know, and start to accelerate really hard as we were coming out of the colder months.

’cause can you imagine filling 2, 3, 5, 700 gallons of diesel? You know, some people have massive tanks to heat their houses and their buildings and stuff. At $6 a gallon, that’s the street price for what you pump into your Cummins Dodge Ram diesel. Right. But when you pay for home heating oil, add another 30 cents a gallon or to 50 cents a gallon on top of that, it is.

Bonkers, expensive. So diesel is a crucial part of the world and also the world economy. You know, we don’t talk about [00:11:00] Dieselgate too much anymore. Not not a ton of people running around in diesel cars, but there’s still a ton of diesel that moves the world. It’s absolutely incredible. So I’m hoping that we’ll see the prices come back down.

But if they don’t, I mean, good night.

Crew Chief Brad: I guess we’ll have to start like. Now that wouldn’t even help anyway. I was gonna say start shopping at Brick and Mortars. But they still need to get their supplies from senior. Correct? Correct. Like either way, there’s no way to avoid it.

Crew Chief Eric: Drones, ev drones, that’s what it is.

Just we’re gonna deliver. See, Amazon’s gonna make it a reality. That’s, they said they would, but that’s just it. Brad, your point about shopping and and needing stuff and the way we buy things just in time and order it online and have it show up the next day. Think about this though. We’re getting nailed still with tariffs.

They haven’t gone away and now we have this diesel crisis on the other side. The cost of everything is going to triple and that’s going to have a effect on everything to include the car community. So the next time you need to go buy something simple like, oh, I don’t know, oil filters or brake pads.

Don’t [00:12:00] be surprised when it used to cost 20 bucks and now it’s 200. I’m not saying that’s a good thing, but I don’t know. Let’s talk about something a little bit nicer. Maybe not so much. ’cause these folks are crazy. Volkswagen, Porsche and Audi News. So I’m just gonna, I’m gonna read this Volkswagen’s considering an EV comeback for the Tore, so now I’m confused.

’cause they have the atlas which replaced the Tore and the Tiguan is the size of the old tore got re badged and there’s a whole bunch of badge engineering there. But aside all that, I have to say if this rendering is right, this might be, and I’m gonna put asterisk and air quotes around this. This might be the best looking VW in the last 10 years.

Tell me I’m wrong.

Executive Producer Tania: No, that was the first thing I thought. I was like, wow, that’s actually not terrible looking.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. It looks like the SUVs of 10 plus years ago, which were actually quite handsomely styled. This is proportioned. It doesn’t have any dumb lines.

Crew Chief Brad: You said [00:13:00] SUVs of 10 years ago. You mean like the tore

Crew Chief Eric: Shush.

You shush. I mean, they only show it from the front threequarter angle, but I like it. I don’t like it as an ev, but I like it. And I don’t wanna say I’m not sold on EVs ’cause I get it. I’m not sold on Volkswagen doing EVs. They do not have a good track record at this point, and I’m just considering their sales numbers.

I don’t wanna talk about reliability or recalls or anything like that. I just, I don’t get it.

Crew Chief Brad: Anybody that would buy a brand new Volkswagen right now is a moron. Just, just putting it out there. Just that it’s putting that out there into the universe. Anybody that buys a new Volkswagen right now is a,

Crew Chief Eric: here’s the kicker about this article.

Okay. More so than the design, which caught my attention. It’s this one line. In the article it says, the new sales boss, Martin Sander at VW has said there remains a gap in the market for upmarket cars that don’t carry a premium [00:14:00] badge, which the to reg and the Fon, which was discontinued in 2016, were designed to serve.

And I said, really? Really,

Executive Producer Tania: here’s the bigger question. Why are they bothering doing this? What EV do they have right now that’s actually doing well?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, the ID buzz got killed.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, the ID four got killed.

Crew Chief Eric: I heard that too.

Executive Producer Tania: So what, which one is doing, you’ve already lost twice. Three times the charm.

Crew Chief Eric: And we’re not counting the Porsche stuff that they’re backpedaling on.

Like they canceled the McCann ev, they’re pulling back on the Tacan ’cause they took a bath on that. So that’s two more right there. Not counting stuff that they probably sold in Europe that we never saw, like the ID three and all that.

Crew Chief Brad: My guess is the ID buzz and the ID four were a little too out there when it came to styling and design.

And this is more [00:15:00] in line with just like a normal looking S-U-V-I-I. I’m not saying that they’re right, I just, this is where I think their thinking is.

Executive Producer Tania: I could follow your argument with the van that that was too much. Like people aren’t,

Crew Chief Eric: it was too expensive. It wasn’t too out there. It looked

Crew Chief Brad: like it. It was definitely too expensive.

It was definitely

Executive Producer Tania: too expensive and it has the cost price to it, but I don’t think the ID four was so wildly styled that it should have deterred anyone. If anything, maybe it was too small for people.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes,

Executive Producer Tania: but does anybody really need a electric toric?

Crew Chief Brad: I can see the ID four being too small for some people.

I can, I can see that

Crew Chief Eric: this is the General Motors problem. VW has somehow usurped the way they’ve done business because we joked about this and GM is really not in the news right now. Like we made fun of them. Like, I don’t know how many drive-throughs ago. Like it’s general morons over there. Right? They don’t know what they’re doing.

They’re always 10 years behind. They’re [00:16:00] trying to catch up with everybody else, and by the time everybody else pivots, they’re like, we’re, where? Where’d the party go, guys? I thought we were, you thought we were jamming out here? This statement that the Toag and the Fon, but we need to fill a premium. That’s what Audi is for and beyond Audi.

That’s what Porsche’s for. And then, oh wait, they own Bentley. So if we wanna go premium prestige, luxury models, why don’t we build an Evie Benga or whatever that thing is called right now. There is a new Bentley coming, the Bentley, uh, the Barnato sounds like Bono from Formula one. The barnacle. Yeah, the barnacle.

Like it looks like a barnacle. This thing is horrendous. But the point is, it’s like, why are we wasting the time? Everybody said when the Fon came out, nobody’s gonna spend a hundred thousand dollars on a re badged steel framed a eight. And guess what? Nobody wasted a hundred thousand dollars on a steel framed a eight.

It was pointless. So we’re gonna repeat [00:17:00] the mistakes of the past Volkswagen. Get out of your own head.

Crew Chief Brad: Like they’re delusional. They’re totally delusional. They have no idea what they’re doing. They don’t listen to the consumer.

Crew Chief Eric: No. Hell no. Hell no. I saw spy photos of the new golf, the Mark nine, I guess you know, the ninth generation.

It’s even bigger. If you can imagine. It’s gonna be a Tiguan by the time it’s on. The golf keeps getting bigger and uglier. It has this funky front end. It looks like a Kia. You know the one with the wraparound front light that goes from like one end to the other. I was like, this is the future of the golf.

Really. Like you guys are out of, you’ve lost touch with reality. Like what are you doing? So now we got this Bentley built on top of the Q five, which that is a useless market too. Who’s gonna buy a cheap Bentley? So this is again, the game, right? Like in the GM paradigm where it’s like, we’re gonna make a Chevy that’s better than a Cadillac.

Just sell a Cadillac as your premium model and Chevy’s your base. Volkswagen is the base. [00:18:00] Model in the equation here in the United States for this family, but we’re gonna try to do a bargain basement Bentley. So they spent all the tooling, the research and the stuff to build on top of this Audi. It looks terrible and nobody’s gonna buy it.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m gonna throw down a challenge.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh boy. Here we go

Crew Chief Brad: for the show. Do you think we could do a season?

Crew Chief Eric: No.

Crew Chief Brad: You know where I’m going, don’t you,

Crew Chief Eric: without talking about Volkswagen. It’s impossible.

Crew Chief Brad: Without talking about Volkswagen.

Crew Chief Eric: No, we did it with Tesla. We gave up Tesla for a year

Crew Chief Brad: and we did it without BMW. But they made it easy.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s impossible because if you look at this next article, it, it’s stuff like this that makes you beat your head up against the wall. China is getting a Jetta. A Jetta, SUV. Drop the mic. Folks. Talk about badge engineering, bad badge engineering. This looks terrible too.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, it’s another car. It looks like they’re just rebadging.

Another car.

Crew Chief Eric: The Jetta X, they call it [00:19:00]

Crew Chief Brad: the Jet X,

Crew Chief Eric: also known as the id. Aura. T six S. UV. Not to be confused with the id. Unix oh nine. What?

Crew Chief Brad: What about the The id? Linux?

Crew Chief Eric: Dude, this is ter. This is the kind of stuff I don’t understand. And then Volkswagen’s going after the Chinese market. They’re up against BYD.

Porsche has already lost their ass in China, so we’re gonna try with this. This is what they want. Really, I don’t know. Electric, SUV. Ugh. But that’s okay because Volkswagen, not only are they getting rid of the ID four, as Tanya mentioned, they’re scaling down production capacity by a million. Cars and layoffs are imminent, so they’re in good shape.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I guess the, they gotta hit rock bottom before and they can rise from the ashes. I don’t know,

Crew Chief Brad: before they hit rock bottomer.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, formula One’s gonna bring them there. Again, this is all to pay for [00:20:00] Formula One. I’m telling you, there’s no other way to do it.

Crew Chief Brad: So when do we start seeing. Volkswagen sell off pieces of the company.

Like what’s the, the brand in Spain and

Crew Chief Eric: Sayat.

Crew Chief Brad: Sayat do, do they own Sayat? Yeah. Like what if they sell off pieces? What if they sell off Sayat? What if they sell off Audi? God forbid they sell off Porsche. They sell off Bentley to somebody else. I mean, well that’s coming next. There has to be,

Crew Chief Eric: I think you’re right.

They’ll scuttle the stuff that just doesn’t sell. That’ll all end up at JLR or something like that. Yeah, especially Bentley. Like all the Bri, the British bands. The British. The British bands. That’s what I really meant to say. They wanna get back together. The bands wanna get back together. The Jags and the Bentleys and the Rolls Royces.

Right? They don’t need to be owned by the Germans anymore.

Crew Chief Brad: No. They go to, they go to India.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, a hundred.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s a G. If they get rid of all those, they get rid of all those. Then what do they become?

Crew Chief Eric: Volkswagen?

Executive Producer Tania: Nobody’s gonna pay [00:21:00] $50,000 for a golf. Because that’s their problem right now. So they don’t solve a problem if they’re gonna keep doing what they do, but just divest the other brands.

People don’t care. People don’t realize that it’s Audi, Porsche, Volkswagen. So if nobody’s buying a $50,000 golf today with the trifecta, they’re not gonna buy it tomorrow when they’re by themselves.

Crew Chief Brad: You, you and I understand that If it was me doing it, I would sell those off and completely redo Volkswagen from the ground up and

Crew Chief Eric: yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: start listening to the consumer and selling vehicles that people actually wanna buy at prices that consumers can actually afford and start over.

Basically,

Crew Chief Eric: I, I think Brad’s point is a little less General Motors and a little more Toyota is what they need right now.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Because the only reason, well, to me, the only reason General Motors is still around is because we bailed them out.

Crew Chief Eric: There is that too.

Crew Chief Brad: Is the German government gonna come and bail out Volkswagen?

Crew Chief Eric: I have to dig into that, but people have told me that there [00:22:00] is something between the Porsche Mafia that runs all that and the German state, they are involved. It’s sort of like too big to fail type of situation.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, of course they are. I mean it’s the same thing with isn’t Renault owned by the French government?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: to an extent. Or something like is owned by the public, like the French public.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Volkswagen is facing a 44% profit. Crash driven government in the state of Lower Saxony are discussing measures to aid the firm driven by the need to protect German jobs and industrial sector.

Crew Chief Eric: Say too big to fail.

Executive Producer Tania: As part of its crisis management, Volkswagen is considering slashing up to 30 to 50,000 jobs

Crew Chief Eric: by getting rid of Betley.

Crew Chief Brad: How does that help? So, so is this one of the situations where they’re prying wolf trying to force the government to come in and step in and help to save those 50,000 jobs?

Crew Chief Eric: No. See, but they didn’t tell you where they’re gonna cut the 50,000 jobs.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, they’re gonna cut ’em in the us.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. You [00:23:00] got it. The Tennessee factory will get shut down before they’ll shut down one.

Well, they’ve already shut down a couple of factories in Europe. ’cause we talked about that already. But the thing is, they’re gonna cut the labor force from other places where it doesn’t make sense.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Well, Chattanooga already shut down because they’re stopping. Id buzz. Well at least that production line.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, all three of them that they made there. Yeah,

Executive Producer Tania: pretty much.

Crew Chief Eric: But they can also cut their factories in South America and Mexico. ’cause vehicles are still produced there.

Crew Chief Brad: Those governments wouldn’t step in and help. I’m sure Volkswagen has lobbyists on Capitol Hill right now trying to say, Hey, we’re getting ready to cut these 50,000 jobs.

The economy’s already strained. Why don’t you go ahead and kick a little bit of bailout money out the way and see, you know, if we, we can keep these jobs going

Crew Chief Eric: about that. All that.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s all a far, it’s all a far

Crew Chief Eric: and then we talked about last month how they’re building munitions or something now too, to try to diversify their engineering portfolio.

So it’s like, all right, whatever to aid the, um,

Crew Chief Brad: the losing F1 team.

Crew Chief Eric: Well that and what, what did we call the excursion? The excursion.

Crew Chief Brad: The excursion.

Crew Chief Eric: But you know, they, they [00:24:00] have taken other avenues to try to shore up their pocketbooks, right? Tanya? They’ve gotten in bed with

Executive Producer Tania: Hot Wheels.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re tugging at the nostalgia heartstrings.

Crew Chief Eric: They are, you know, at 15 bucks a pop for two hot Wheels in this special premium collection pack. But you know what this says, you know what? Cars aren’t in this bubble pack? It’s not an ID buzz. It’s not an ID four. It’s not this Jetta X thing. It’s not the benga or the take hand.

It’s the R 30 twos. The last real enthusiast Volkswagens that they made, whether the R, the second gen R 30 twos sold well or not doesn’t really matter. But the point is these are the cars we wanted. Yeah. And it does pull up the nostalgia strings, like you said, Brad, but they need to go back to building cars like this.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s what I’m saying. Like it to fix Volkswagen, they need to go back to what Volkswagen did best, and they were their best in the late nineties and early two thousands.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, they had finally figured it out and then after that it was like all downhill [00:25:00] race to the bottom. But that’s okay, because you know what?

Sometimes when you visit other companies, you realize how good you got it. So when Volkswagen looks over the fence and says. What’s going on over there? Stellantis. They feel good about themselves. It’s getting weird. It’s stellantis.

Crew Chief Brad: Can, can you pronounce this plant name for me because I’m, I, it it’s pronounced in a certain way in my head and I think it’s wrong, so I don’t wanna say it.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s French.

Crew Chief Brad: I, I I understand.

Crew Chief Eric: And the way I understand the non phonetic pronunciation. ’cause you gotta remember French, like half the letters are silent or they have a different tonality. So I asked my wife, ’cause she speaks French, it’s poi

Crew Chief Brad: That’s pretty close to what I was thinking.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I knew what you were thinking.

But that is not correct.

Crew Chief Brad: Are are the, the people that work there, a bunch of, of PWAs,

Crew Chief Eric: well, they’re not working there anymore because they’re gonna stop making cars in the [00:26:00] French Stellantis factory and they’re gonna shift to parts and recycling. You might say, who cares? You know, it’s another factory that’s shutting its doors, so be it.

There’s a couple important things about the POI factory and that is that Chrysler has been using that plant since the 1940s,

Crew Chief Brad: that that’s an old poi.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, in terms of the cars that are, that are sold there, or were, I’m sorry, that were built there. That’s the Citra and DS three. That’s the hot hatch. So I’m a little sad about that ’cause that means that car’s not getting built.

Along with the Opal Mocca, CUV, which would be better known to a lot of people in the United States as the Buick Enclave. Not really sad about that going away. I think the sadder part is that it’s a piece of history. Oddly enough, this particular article, which you can find in our show notes, was brought to me by a member of this society of automotive historians, and so they were talking about how the plant is even older than when Chrysler took it over in the forties.

It was [00:27:00] used by Ford, it was used by other people. It’s been around for over a hundred years in automotive production, so it’s sort of living on. But no more cars will be rolling out the doors of the POI factory.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s what I was just about to say. So it, it looks like it’s, it’s not shutting down completely, it’s just being retooled.

Correct. So at least from a economic standpoint, from a job standpoint, like they’re, they’ll probably cut some of the workforce, but not all of it.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. It’s sort of like Willy Wonka when the guy used to put the caps on the toothpaste. Now he fixes the robots that puts the caps on the toothpaste. It’s that sort of situation, you know what I mean?

Crew Chief Brad: Very nice. Very nice.

Crew Chief Eric: You like that analogy. It’s a good one.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Meanwhile, in, in other parts of STIs, Fiat is going back to its roots. Look at this thing, Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: Mm.

Crew Chief Eric: This is the trees.

Executive Producer Tania: How delightful.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, that looks like an ape. If I ever saw one, Italy was littered with these three wheeled tiny delivery trucks for the longest time.

And then, then they were made by [00:28:00] piaggio, which is the same people that the Vespa and all that stuff. So they had the ape. But they’re bringing it back. It’s very modern. That’s pretty nice. And if it’s an ev, it’s perfect.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s pretty nice.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Could haul a decent amount of mulch in that truck too.

Executive Producer Tania: You could actually,

Crew Chief Eric: maybe more than that.

Dodge we saw the other day

Executive Producer Tania: more than a cyber truck.

Crew Chief Eric: As we continue discussing lower Saxon A, it’s not really BMW, so I figured you were okay with it. It’s BM BMW adjacent

Crew Chief Brad: because it’s powered by BMW

Crew Chief Eric: and it’s got A BMW drivetrain.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: so Morgan has revealed the new super sport 400.

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve got a question.

Crew Chief Eric: Uhhuh,

Crew Chief Brad: who buys these?

Crew Chief Eric: Right?

Crew Chief Brad: They’re just so ugly.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know if ugly is the right term. They’re very classic. They have not deviated far from their original form, that’s for sure. I think these are probably a hoot to drive, probably more fun to drive than a cater, because there’s a little bit more substance to the car.

But the problem is the price. [00:29:00] I mean, you’re getting kind of a really expensive Z four

Crew Chief Brad: that’s made of wood.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, that’s for lightness and not rigidity.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, because if any, whenever I think of wood. I think of lightness. Not say like an aluminum space frame or carbon fiber or anything like that.

Crew Chief Eric: Why use aluminum when you can cut down tree?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, we don’t need to breathe.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, that’s okay because they won’t sell too many of ’em at the starting price of just over $152,000. If you can fit the thing like a tight leather shoe, it is small.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, you know who’s already got an order for one? I guarantee it is. Uh, Richard Hammond.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, yeah, because they fit the car around him, like he’s one of the few people that can drive it.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you notice the wheels though?

Executive Producer Tania: They look Porsche wheels.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh yeah, I see.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go, Tanya. Got it. They look like the roof wheels from the eighties.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re nice.

Crew Chief Eric: Doesn’t suit the body style though.

Crew Chief Brad: It doesn’t, but I don’t know any wheels that would suit this body style. The body style doesn’t suit the body style.

Crew Chief Eric: Chariot wheels like [00:30:00] on a Conestoga wagon, that might work.

Crew Chief Brad: Exactly. This car needs to be pulled by a horse.

Executive Producer Tania: Of course.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, Brad, ask and thou Sht receive. We have not talked about General Motors in quite a long time, but I found a piece of General Motors news and it’s yet another swift and well thought out decision on their part.

The CT four and CT five black wings are going

FLORIDA MAN: sad

Crew Chief Eric: and you’re a hundred percent right. And you know why it’s sad? Because these are really the tail end of the manual transmission V eight, fire breathing sports saloons like we all loved and cherished over the years. And this is it. Once these are gone, what’s left?

What can you buy with a V eight with four doors and a stick shift?

Executive Producer Tania: Uh, Dodge Dart.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a four cylinder

Crew Chief Brad: 16.

Executive Producer Tania: I know, I know.

Crew Chief Eric: So much like the jokes about Volkswagen is this because Cadillac has [00:31:00] to pay for their failing F1 program. Because in my mind, these are the cars you keep around to try to get people excited about your racing program.

Crew Chief Brad: I was just about to say like, and, and you don’t have to have like a whole fleet of them. Like you don’t need. Well, we’ll, we’ll take BMW for example, right? You don’t need an, you don’t need an M, everything in the fricking lineup, but one or two or even 3M cars to entice people to come in and they may not be able to afford an M five, but they can probably afford a regular five series, and it makes ’em feel just as cool.

Like you need these cars to excite people about the brand. Volkswagen has killed off basically all of theirs.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: they say nothing. Looks like GM is doing the same thing with Cadillac. But gm, at least for as far as I can see into the future, which is not very far, they have the Corvette, so they’ll always have the Corvette that entices people to come back to gm.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, let’s put a pin in that [00:32:00] Corvette thing for a

Crew Chief Brad: minute. Oh, did you? Are you gonna, are we gonna talk about the recall? Isn’t there a recall that just happened?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah, there is. Since you brought it up, we might as well go there. They have stopped production on the C eight Corvette.

Executive Producer Tania: Why? What now? Do they light on fire again?

When you fill them with fuel?

Crew Chief Brad: It’s something super silly.

Executive Producer Tania: The hoods come open.

Crew Chief Brad: No, it’s, it is like silly as in like it’s, if I remember correctly, I don’t even think it really warrants a recall, but I could be wrong.

Crew Chief Eric: Chevy Corvette under stop sale. Because software glitch might not tell drivers that their turn signals are out.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. What that is, who cares? That is such, yeah, that, who cares that? So let’s take the BM BMW approach. Let’s do the, who cares Your freaking turn signals out. So effing what?

Crew Chief Eric: That was the first thing I thought when I saw this was like, do Corvette people even use their turn signals? Like

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: Sort of the Enzo Ferrari thing.

Like what’s behind you? Doesn’t matter guys. I mean, we’re doing like mock two. So who cares? Turns

Crew Chief Brad: you getting the, the, the Corvette owners are doing sub [00:33:00] speed limit.

Crew Chief Eric: Well

Crew Chief Brad: the ones I, the ones I always end up getting behind ’cause they’re like 80 years old and they can finally afford their dream car.

Crew Chief Eric: Those are the C seven drivers.

Now you see ’cause C eight drivers. Those are the TED dbi million dollar man, hairy man, spaghetti wide, open collar. These are the C eight drivers. Okay, got it. Got. These are the guys at their peak earning potential. They wanted a sports car and couldn’t buy a Porsche, so they bought a Corvette instead.

That’s the demographic, the the respectable Corvette owner, they’re buying the old stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Got it, got it.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t think c eights come with a pair of new balances. They might come with Jorts like, but they don’t come with New Balance.

Crew Chief Brad: They come with new balance driving shoes, new balance, lrs,

Crew Chief Eric: what a terrible, terrible recall.

That’s the silliest C eight recall, yet it’s had some dumb recalls, but this one takes the cake.

Crew Chief Brad: I understand having a recall, but a, a stop sale,

Crew Chief Eric: right.

Crew Chief Brad: For a software update

Crew Chief Eric: that you do over the air.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s important that your turn signals work, but they’re brand new cars. Like, [00:34:00] are the turn signals failing immediately?

Like that should be like a. 10 years from now problem.

Crew Chief Brad: Are they using Philips bulbs?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know if I’ve ever changed a turn signal, light bulb.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t think I have either. You change headlight bulbs, brake light bulbs, but turn signal. Nah.

Crew Chief Brad: You know what the problem is? This is some stupid government regulation that says it needs to blink about 5,000 times a second when your turn signal’s out.

So you know your turn signal’s out. Although it’s still blinking. So is it technically out,

Crew Chief Eric: you know how that worked on the old cars? And to your point, why is this such a big thing? Because the little stock that activates the turn signal isn’t actually connected to the circuitry for the turn signal anymore.

Remember, this is a software problem. Mm-hmm. Because on the old cars when the bulb went out, as rare as that was

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, it was like tripper relay or something. Right. And it wasn’t getting, it wasn’t getting enough circuitry or something.

Crew Chief Eric: It shorts the circuit and causes the relay to start opening and closing really fast.

Yeah. ’cause it was all what? Mechanical.

Crew Chief Brad: Gee, [00:35:00] imagine that.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Shocker. Well, Brad, I wanna go back to something you said before about the badge engineering at BMW. As we know over the last decade, they are infamous for slapping an M badge on just about anything. Got that? MI three. Hmm? Yeah. Woo. This one just made me shake my head.

Tanya and I actually talked about this off camera. We’ve been very excited about all the gazoo racing products from Toyota gr, this GR jars, gr supra, GR 86. Gr gr. They’re everywhere. It’s awesome. Even the Haas GR Toyota team, right? I mean now this season, but because they enthusiast who is at the helm of Toyota is now left and it’s in charge of by a bean counter.

They have taken a page from their partnership with BMW. ’cause let’s not forget that the Supra was a Z four, the Supra, as we like to call it. So now Toyota is slapping GR badges on stuff. And I’m gonna use the word stuff ’cause I don’t wanna say [00:36:00] anything too bad, but I’ll just say this Toyota’s introducing the RAV4 GR sports

Executive Producer Tania: garbage.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that what GR is short for now? Garbage.

Crew Chief Brad: So I will say this is not new territory for Toyota because they’ve been doing it in the US for years.

Executive Producer Tania: TRD

Crew Chief Brad: with Lexus and they’ve got the F sport, which is not an F. So they’ve been doing it for a while now it’s just kind of trickled down into the normal Toyota brand.

Crew Chief Eric: All I’m gonna say is there is nothing sport or GR about this RAV4. The design alone is pretty terrible looking. It reminds me of that Bentley we talked about earlier. It’s just awful. But hey, it’s got little red stitching in the seats GR right there.

Crew Chief Brad: So you’re paying for an appearance package

Crew Chief Eric: pretty much like the BMWs.

It’s just an appearance but slap some badges on it. It’s a m now. Terrible. Toyota, you make me sad.

Crew Chief Brad: You gotta do better.

Crew Chief Eric: I got click [00:37:00] baited this month guys. I got really excited. I read the headline from Car Scoops, pinine Farina, who has been, by the way, booted from Ferrari. They’re no longer designing Ferrari.

That’s why I got excited about this. Pinine Farina has a Honda NSX reboot and I was like, Ooh, ooh, this is gonna be good. Like they’re gonna get their revenge on Ferrari. You know, as we joke that a lot of the Ferrari look like an NSX, but unfortunately this is a rest mod. Mm-hmm. Body kit by PanIN Farina. I mean it looks good, don’t get me wrong.

’cause the classic NSX looks good and it’s still a good looking cart to this day, but what a bummer.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, it looks better than the The real in SX they came up with.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. I love the wide bodiness to it.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, that’s hot. The red one. I would drive that

Crew Chief Eric: it looks more Ferrari than a Ferrari. If you think about it.

And it’s got pop-up headlights. How can you go wrong with pop-up headlights? That is amazing.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: But we’re not getting a new [00:38:00] NSX. However, comma, if this partnership were to continue somehow between Penny and Farina and Honda, that would be epic. The engines are still gonna be anemic, but the designs are gonna be amazing.

Let’s dog ear this a little bit. Come back to it and see if anything else progresses. Especially since Honda and Sony have sort of parted ways and dissolved the whole Alea thing, maybe they can concentrate on some good looking cars instead of the whatever that was. All right. Well, Kia decided apparently to make the cyber truck better looking.

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t understand because they said it’s a stinger, and I’m like, I don’t remember the stinger looking like this.

Crew Chief Eric: It did not. This looks like a cyber truck. Am I wrong?

Executive Producer Tania: Because like the Kia Stinger admittedly wasn’t a bad looking sedan.

Crew Chief Brad: It looks like an A seven to me. I liked it a lot.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you see the interior shot?

That is like minority report? Total recall.

Crew Chief Brad: Murder. Death Kill murder. Death kill.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. It’s like all the sci-fi films sprawled into [00:39:00] one. I wanna say this is terrible, but from every angle it’s better looking than a cyber truck.

Crew Chief Brad: What is that weird joystick thing in the gold seat? I thought it was a cup holder.

At first. I thought that was a Starbucks cup or a stand.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that a steering wheel or a Lego brick?

Executive Producer Tania: Maybe it drives itself.

Crew Chief Brad: Is that something to sit on? Well, I don’t get it.

Crew Chief Eric: Again, the cyber truck is the bottom of the barrel.

Executive Producer Tania: If that’s at the bar, then I mean, don’t take much. And guess what? It does not look good in Kelly Green.

That is not a favorable wrap. Color choice?

Crew Chief Eric: Nope. Oh, what’s this? Somebody added an, what’s this? What’s this? Someone added an article

Executive Producer Tania: so much like Honda. Is doing with heritage parts. Now, apparently Nissan will also be having a program for heritage parts

Crew Chief Eric: only if you own an Ultima, right?

Executive Producer Tania: Well,

I mean

Crew Chief Brad: Ultimas [00:40:00] are all original parts. They don’t ever change ’em.

Executive Producer Tania: They seem to indicate for the Z cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay. I’m glad you specified.

Executive Producer Tania: You’re probably not getting some heritage parts for your 1990 Altima.

Crew Chief Brad: There’s no Altima Z Sport.

Crew Chief Eric: Brad, you bring up a very valid point. What if NI Nissan did that

Crew Chief Brad: like a Nismo sport?

Crew Chief Eric: SMOs Ultima.

Crew Chief Brad: An an Ultima.

Crew Chief Eric: That’d be terrible. I mean, good for them. More companies need to do this because plenty of enthusiasts have old cars, and as we’ve learned with our Ford project, which isn’t that old, it’s extremely difficult to get stuff and it’s like it shouldn’t be. I mean, we’re very blessed in the Volkswagen community that there’s a huge aftermarket support for all the old cars, but I feel for everybody else, if you don’t have that network and you don’t have that import overnight from Japan thing going on, it’s gotta be extremely hard to get stuff done, which is why you never see any of these cars on the road.[00:41:00]

Well, switching to EVs and concept cars, Tanya, they finally got the smart right?

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, these cloth wheels, I don’t understand.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ve never seen white tires before.

Crew Chief Brad: They won’t be white for long.

Crew Chief Eric: What is with these front ends? This is the third car with this thing that looks like, you remember those mats like our grandparents would put in the bathtub so you wouldn’t slip.

You know those things for like the seventies, like that’s what that looks like. You know what that feels like? You don’t even have to touch it. You know what it feels like?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t think this feels like that. However,

Crew Chief Eric: it looks like a suitcase.

Executive Producer Tania: You know the problem is you don’t need a grill. So what do you do with that space?

And I guess there’s trying to be creative with a pattern of. Plus signs, [00:42:00] negative signs and circles.

Crew Chief Eric: All the mathematical operations you can think of like what is this?

Executive Producer Tania: Which the front view has a pound sign and a two in the little, I guess those are lights of some sort in the grill.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s ’cause it’s the four two,

Crew Chief Brad: hashtag four two.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Much like the mini, they did not deviate too far from its roots. So it’s, you look at it and go, that’s a smart, I mean the wheels and the tires are bizarre.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, the thing is two feet long, how much can you deviate from the spirit of it?

Crew Chief Eric: True. It is a roller skate. Here’s the shocking part, and maybe it’s not 186 mile range on battery.

Is that not enough or is that just right for its size?

Crew Chief Brad: Well, I think it’s right for its size. I don’t know anybody that would be taking a road trip in a car this size. And it’s gonna be in the UK and Europe and everything. It’s,

Crew Chief Eric: no, you’re gonna take that back because I posted on Discord. I saw a gentleman driving around the city this month in a [00:43:00] Braas Smart, which I had to like do a 10 take not a triple take.

I did like a 10 take.

Crew Chief Brad: You were in the city.

Executive Producer Tania: He wasn’t driving down the coast.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. You didn’t see ’em on 95.

Crew Chief Eric: City miles are like dog years. Okay. Like how many country miles are equal to a city mile? You know what I’m saying? Like it’s, it’s rough and tumble out there.

Executive Producer Tania: Uh,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s an excursion.

Executive Producer Tania: That comparison makes no sense.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know. I feel like an electric smart should do like 500 miles before it needs to be charged.

Crew Chief Brad: Where are they gonna put all the batteries?

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly. You think that? ’cause you go, oh, it’s so small it power to wait. It should be going forever. But the problem is it’s so small. You can fit like one Duracell battery in it

Crew Chief Eric: double or triple A.

Crew Chief Brad: When I think of a smart car, yes. I think it should go like, sure. To use Eric’s analogy or Eric’s thought it should go 500 miles. Yeah, you should be able to charge it off of Mofi on your phone.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, a hundred percent.

Executive Producer Tania: If you could fit a battery on that, that could do. 500 [00:44:00] miles, then we should be getting way better mileage out of bigger cars.

Crew Chief Eric: But we’re not, because I think it’s all part of the game. Or the farce

Crew Chief Brad: delusion.

Crew Chief Eric: Thank you.

Crew Chief Brad: It all, it all aids. The uh, the conflict,

Crew Chief Eric: the excursion. My new favorite. It’s my word of the month excursion

Crew Chief Brad: liberation.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m talking about the Ford. Isn’t that what you’re talking about?

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, of course. Always.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Brad, let’s switch to Lost and found your favorite part of the drive through where we scour the internet and call up Chuck led duck at Gray Chevrolet to see if he’s got anything on the lot that we want to buy. And I found a car for Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: Uh oh.

Crew Chief Eric: Shall I read the stats? Limited production only 250 units worldwide.

This was a Japanese allocation with left hand drive. 45 units were sent to Japan. It’s serial number 1 [00:45:00] 74 of two 50. Its condition is non-smoking and it’s completely stock and its interior and exterior. Its exclusive. Features include RO orange leather, front bucket seats, 18 inch oz, magnesium wheels, and a Remus dual exhaust system, which I don’t think was stock on this particular car.

What am I talking about? The 3.2 liter VR six powered Beetle RSI.

Crew Chief Brad: I hope Tanya has not looked at it to see the cost yet.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, I know the cost. So why don’t we refresh people and what that cost is.

Crew Chief Eric: What do we think this should cost? What would you be willing to pay for a Beatle RSI? And please note that in the picture, there’s a black magic R 32 behind it.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s your old black magic R.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s probably where it ended up. Yeah, it was

Crew Chief Brad: sent to Japan.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’t even get me started. All right, Tanya, what would you pay for an RSI Beetle?

Executive Producer Tania: What would I pay? That’s a very good question.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’t let it weigh you down. Like other purchases weigh you down. [00:46:00] Just be like, I would pay if I had a million dollars and I don’t care, I would pay.

Blah. What would you pay?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, if I had a million dollars and I didn’t care, then I could just buy this one.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay. But I’m just saying like, I’m trying to alleviate the pressure where you’re like, oh, I don’t wanna pay too much and I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna underpay just like, put out a number. Like what do you think this car is worth to you?

Executive Producer Tania: $30,000.

Crew Chief Eric: 30. Wow. You’re so cheap.

Executive Producer Tania: I know. That’s why I was like, hesitating.

Crew Chief Eric: I was to say 50.

Crew Chief Brad: I was, I, I was in the 50 to 60 range.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. ’cause these are super rare,

Executive Producer Tania: considered maybe 45.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh my god. So cheap.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. We do all these things to it, and then there’s still that steering wheel,

Crew Chief Brad: but it’s entirely stock.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s allegedly stocked.

That Remus exhaust did not come from Volkswagen. I’m just pointing

Executive Producer Tania: out allegedly stock. Did they come with orange Recaro bucket seats?

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t remember what the RSIs came with. Those are heinous though. But yes, it still has like the factory [00:47:00] stupid steering wheel that was in your, that’s in your beetle.

Crew Chief Brad: Those are the seats I need in my car.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, maybe they came like this, we wouldn’t know. They didn’t sell ’em here.

Crew Chief Eric: No they did not.

Executive Producer Tania: Would I pay $160,000 for it? No. If I had a million dollars, then

Crew Chief Eric: well see. If I won the lottery, I would buy you this. I wouldn’t have told you that I bought it for you. I would just have it delivered to your house and then I wouldn’t give you the keys for a while.

Just like tease you that. It’s like sitting in your driveway. These are super cool.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I would want one,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s really a shame. Nobody created an authentic body kit where you could build one, granted be front wheel drive, or if you want to do all the work to the drive train to put the all wheel drive in there, it’s not a big deal.

You get it from a tt.

Crew Chief Brad: I was just about to say like what would be more expensive buying this car at 160 or building one yourself?

Executive Producer Tania: Buying this car for 160?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s probably cheaper to build one.

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know that you could build it exactly like this one.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, there was that one that we saw. [00:48:00] It was the HPA one that sold on bring a trailer and that was under a hundred thousand so that you would’ve had money to spare and they did build one.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I really also don’t like this interior. If that’s actually how it came,

Crew Chief Eric: it would’ve been cool if it was blue.

Crew Chief Brad: Did they ever, did they come in any other color other than silver? No, I think I’ve only seen them in silver.

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t only ever seen them silver.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: The racing ones came in all sorts of funky colors, orange and blue, and like all the, the Beetle Cup series ones that they used.

Crew Chief Brad: So what I would buy for going down a rabbit hole here, I would save my 160,000 from this and I would buy that Volkswagen, GTI that I think it was oh 34 built that had a 2.7 twin turbo V six in the back.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Crew Chief Brad: That car was. Maze balls. I would buy that. It was, it sold, you know, a few years ago or several years ago.

I can’t remember what it sold for, but that car was awesome. They put a lot of time and customization into that.

Executive Producer Tania: I have to go back for a second before we move on to [00:49:00] this 3 56 thing, because the comments of some things are so funny. The amount of people that don’t understand this car and why it is so expensive is insane.

You are insane. I understand what this car is because I have the front wheel drive version of it without the VR six.

Crew Chief Eric: This is the same. Same but different thing.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, yes, it’s badass. And had they only sold these here,

Crew Chief Brad: you still wouldn’t be able to afford it.

Executive Producer Tania: End of the day it’s, it’s 25-year-old beetle.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah,

Executive Producer Tania: I mean,

Crew Chief Eric: so instead, let’s talk about 65-year-old beetle. Let’s talk about three pieces. There you go. Let’s back off of this $160,000 number. Let’s say you had $160,000 to spend. Would you spend it on an RSI Beetle?

Executive Producer Tania: No.

Crew Chief Eric: Or would you buy a 3 56? Because that’s what Manny from PCA longtime friend of the show is basically espousing in his latest blog post on pca.org.[00:50:00]

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, no, I would, I was gonna say I was gonna buy A A MG Mercedes gt.

Crew Chief Brad: I was just about to say, you wanna say A-M-G-G-T?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. But if we’re comparing beetle shaped vehicles

Executive Producer Tania: Oh. I didn’t know that that was a boundary to the conversation.

Crew Chief Eric: It is now.

Crew Chief Brad: Tanya would buy 16 Turbo butyl. They make one good one out of all 16.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, so getting back to it, would you spend 160,000 on RSI? We already know you’d buy Mercedes, which is more akin to the 9 28 or 3 56 because I’ve said for a long time the 3 56 market is ripe for the picking because there’s too many people sacrificing nine elevens to go build singers. Or they’re holding onto their nine elevens and they’ve gone through the roof and these 3 56 s are left behind unloved.

Executive Producer Tania: Would I buy that for $160,000? Or the Beetle for $160,000?

Crew Chief Eric: 3 56. Not a Beetle

Executive Producer Tania: Say what?

Crew Chief Eric: 3 [00:51:00] 56? Not a beetle.

Executive Producer Tania: No, no, no. I thought you said the choice. The question is, would I buy this RSI for $160,000 or this 3 56 for the same money

Crew Chief Eric: and 3 56 might cost less. I mean, you’re getting a classic Porsche for less than that Beetle.

Executive Producer Tania: And after I’ve spanked it off the line,

Crew Chief Eric: hey, now they make 75 horsepower. Okay.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I would have, I would buy the RSI. I think

Crew Chief Eric: I would love to have a 3 56 like I’ve read this article, and Manny is not wrong. These cars are gonna have a second coming. They’re gonna have a whole new fellowship and a whole new following.

I think they’re the place that if you’re looking to buy a Porsche, especially an air cold Porsche. You should invest your money in 3 56 s.

Crew Chief Brad: How much is a 3 56 running right now?

Crew Chief Eric: He doesn’t mention it in the article.

Executive Producer Tania: Newtown Square, wherever that is, has a used 77,000 mile 1962 Porsche 3 56 BT six 1600 Super for the low low price of 229 9 [00:52:00] 9 5.

Is

Crew Chief Eric: that all?

Executive Producer Tania: You could also get a 1959 Porsche 3 56 used with 4,000 miles on eBay for $80,000.

Crew Chief Eric: So the pendulum swings pretty far there. Brad.

Crew Chief Brad: Ooh, here you go. A one scale, one Porsche, 3 56 speedster wooden display model.

Crew Chief Eric: Ah, Uhhuh.

Crew Chief Brad: If you want to go the Morgan route,

Crew Chief Eric: Uhhuh

Crew Chief Brad: is, uh. Sold for 15,000.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. This is a nice clean 1 56 speed.

Well, it’s a speedster replica.

Crew Chief Eric: I’d take a replica.

Executive Producer Tania: 44 9.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s not bad.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s not bad.

Crew Chief Eric: 45,000 for a classic Porsche. That is not bad.

Executive Producer Tania: That is not bad. However, dollar for dollar. I mean, that would be,

Crew Chief Brad: well, here you go. Porsche 3 56, speedster styled, go-kart. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: stop. Stop.

Crew Chief Brad: 80, 80, $200.

Executive Producer Tania: Uh, it’s another [00:53:00] replica. You could get a 3 56, a replica for 35 9.

Crew Chief Eric: I am good with replicas too.

Executive Producer Tania: In the great state of Michigan.

Crew Chief Brad: Are the replicas just built on beetles?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. Okay. Just like the Beck Spiders and all those other things out there. Well, all right. Well, I haven’t convinced you to buy a 3 56. Well, maybe I can convince you to buy this uncool wall nominee. It’s been a minute.

I found one.

Crew Chief Brad: The fudge is this.

Crew Chief Eric: This is a Homebrew Chevy Trailblazer convertible, and as the headline reads, it is the mullet of cars.

Executive Producer Tania: Dang.

Crew Chief Eric: It is business in the front, already in the back for sale at a Nissan dealership of all places. Somebody traded this in

Crew Chief Brad: or across Cabrio Lake.

You were gonna say Ultima?

Crew Chief Eric: I was, but

Crew Chief Brad: I I beat you. No. A, a Murano Cross. Cabrio Lake. They were like, you know what? This one is it, but that one? Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: What was wrong with this [00:54:00] trailblazer? That somebody said, you know what, we gotta cut the roof off and make it a convertible.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re friends with Daniel.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we’ll get to one of those in a minute.

Don’t stray too far from that thought. But here’s what gets me, right? So the structural rigidity of a trailblazer is, uh, partially where

Crew Chief Brad: the doors,

Crew Chief Eric: well in its roof structure ’cause it’s built like a box. So how much does this flex when it goes down the road,

Crew Chief Brad: you’re assuming it goes down the road.

Crew Chief Eric: Well that’s true too.

But more importantly, if you were gonna spend the time and the money to do this, why not just buy an SSR?

Crew Chief Brad: Because then it doesn’t run on that sweet, sweet straight six.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, right. It’s not even an ss it’s not even a V eight in this. This is terrible.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, it’s got that 4.2 liter in line six mm You can feel those 275 ponies.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, but look how much less it weighs now that it has no glass.

Crew Chief Brad: Sure. Actually someone even put in here small, like they mentioned the SSR in [00:55:00] here. So

Crew Chief Eric: that’s what I’m saying, man, that’s ugh. The fakes people do is absolutely just incredible. So yeah, this one’s going up on the uncool wall so you can vote on it with like 90 other cars that are on the uncool wall at this point.

Well, speaking of things that are uncool, we would be remiss if we didn’t look at this picture of Elon. Look at this picture of Elon. What a nerd this was back in the early days of the Roadster, and the reason I bring this up is the Roadster is back in the conversation again.

Crew Chief Brad: How are the profits up?

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know.

There’s tons of cyber trucks sitting around on lots being unsold. Mm. Maybe selling more carbon credits. Again, the reason I bring this up, and again, it has been in multiple feeds and uh, you know, some new renderings of the Roadster and whatnot, all AI generated. But Musk is quoted as saying the Roadster will be Tesla’s last manually driven car.

He also claims Tesla’s aspirational goal of building the last. [00:56:00] Best driver’s car. I think Porsche’s got something to say about that.

Crew Chief Brad: This is a non story Moving on.

Crew Chief Eric: Complete clickbait. I mean the Roadster is never gonna happen. We’ve been talking about the Roadster since 2017. Like it predates the show.

They’ve been teasing with the lasers and the this and the that, and it’s gonna do zero to 60 in 1.9 seconds with the dual cannons. And Bobby Parks came on talking about it’s gonna be the next hit. Dragster, blah, blah. I mean, it is the biggest vaporware smoke and mirrors car ever. And we thought the cyber truck was gonna be like that too.

Like they were never gonna make it. And then they finally made that. So maybe, maybe this just, we haven’t waited long enough. Right? 2027 will be 10 years that we’ve been talking about the delayed production of the Tesla Roadster.

Crew Chief Brad: Alright, so question time.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh boy.

Crew Chief Brad: What happens first? The Tesla Roadster goes into production, or Volkswagen writes the ship.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, [00:57:00] dude. I don’t know if that can be answered. That might be like the secret of the universe. I don’t know that we can answer that question. That’s wow, that that dude, I’m having a, uh, existential crisis now trying to solve that problem.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s like that meme with the woman in the middle of the screen with all the math equations going around her head and everything.

It’s exactly what’s going on in your head right now.

Crew Chief Eric: Pretty much. Pretty much.

Well, let’s move to the segment that has changed more times than you’ve changed your socks this month. Let’s go to seriously, what could go wrong where we get to ask Tanya the same question we’ve asked her for six months. Have you watched the F1 movie?

Executive Producer Tania: Well,

Crew Chief Eric: what, before you answer that, our listeners will have to tune in for the next Formula Fanatics episode.

We will answer that question. So let’s put a pin in. For a moment. How do you keep an idiot in suspense? I’ll tell you tomorrow,[00:58:00]

but seriously though, what could go wrong? This one came across my desk also from the Society of Automotive Historians, so I’m just gonna sort of read this in. In summary, there’s a TV journalist based in New York that is currently developing a documentary on a sport from the early 19 hundreds known as.

Auto polo.

Executive Producer Tania: Ooh,

Crew Chief Eric: it is a wonderfully chaotic motorsport. The tour through Madison Square Garden and Coney Island in the 1910s and twenties before repair bills finally killed it. Take a look at, this is the craziest thing I have ever seen.

Crew Chief Brad: It reminds me of the auto football that top gear played,

Crew Chief Eric: but mental

Crew Chief Brad: with more, more car around.

Executive Producer Tania: No, this is like the other thing. The chariots with the motorcycles where it’s like you have the motorcycles in front and you’re doing like chariots of fire,

Crew Chief Eric: but look at some of these wrecks. These guys are being ejected, but then there’s also, what do you wanna call him? The mechanic, like he’s leaning out over the car [00:59:00] while the other car’s going by.

They’ve got these clubs in their hand trying to hit the ball.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, those are the polo clubs.

Executive Producer Tania: This is like a top gear episode. This is where they got it from.

Crew Chief Eric: Look at the one as you get down maybe three quarters away, where the guy is leaning out the rear passenger. He has what looks like, I don’t know, a snowshoe and he’s hitting an oversized ball.

You see this? This is the most buck wild thing I’ve ever seen.

Crew Chief Brad: It looks like a Morgan

Executive Producer Tania: Wonder how people died doing this.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s so many death in Motorsport because of this stuff. Like this is why not Formula One. It’s this. How many rollovers? Absolutely insane.

Executive Producer Tania: That was Darwinism.

Crew Chief Eric: They thought it was fun.

You say it’s Darwinism. This is sport.

Executive Producer Tania: This is also the meme where it’s like, this is why men don’t live long.

Crew Chief Eric: God bless. Absolutely

Crew Chief Brad: dumb ways to die.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, finally, Brad, you sort of buried the lead earlier talking about mountain man. Dan, going back to our [01:00:00] sort of showcase, this gentleman has solved the world’s gas problem.

He built a square body Chevy that runs on would

look at this thing. I’m gonna say that again. It runs on wood. Brad, your face says it all,

Executive Producer Tania: but it says that it’s covered 60,000 miles. That’s impressive.

Crew Chief Brad: That was be before the wood.

Crew Chief Eric: It took 20 years to build this thing.

Executive Producer Tania: It was built for enjoyment, not as an energy solution.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna say bull. I’ve heard Dan talk about his hydroelectric plant based off of creek. This is pure trying to beat the man, beat the system, and not pay the gas bills.

Executive Producer Tania: The V eight pulls as if it runs on gasoline.[01:01:00]

Crew Chief Eric: ’cause the best part, it takes five to 10 minutes to get started up.

Crew Chief Brad: Probably makes a mean wood fire pizza.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh my God.

Crew Chief Brad: It also takes 81 pounds of wood to go 60 miles.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s a lot of wood.

Crew Chief Eric: And I love how the article says it’s a small inconvenience so it can go 60 miles on 81 pounds of wood, but you have to feed it every 43 miles. So you can’t even do the whole 60 miles.

’cause you have to keep the fire going.

Executive Producer Tania: But I could get to work. On one wood fill.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s when you get your brother Darrell and your other brother Darrell up there feeding it and stoking it as you’re driving down the road.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, we have to stay tuned because there’s going to be a video later to document this Chevy’s participation in a one mile speed event.

Crew Chief Brad: Is this whistling diesel.

Crew Chief Eric: This is some mountain [01:02:00] man engineering right here.

Crew Chief Brad: This, this is Daniel looking around his property thinking, you know what? I got a lot of, I got a lot of wood up here. How am I gonna get rid all this wood? I got a lot of wood and a lot of cars. Hmm.

Crew Chief Eric: But then you gotta burn different woods, right?

I wonder if cherry wood gets you a couple extra miles versus, you know, burning an oak.

Executive Producer Tania: Let’s think about this. He’s got the cover on. Well, no, he doesn’t have a cover on the back. So you got the bed of the truck, so that’s good. ’cause you can carry all your fuel in the bed of the truck. Then when you pull over, you put it in the pot, burn it.

I guess you can’t use this in the rain

because last I checked, what wood doesn’t burn very well.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, engines don’t burn water either.

Crew Chief Brad: Seeing this gives me a really good idea. So we take this idea, but we refine it. Instead of wood, we burn like a [01:03:00] liquid or something that like burns really efficiently. Oh. Instead of storing it in the bed of the truck, we put it in a tank and we, we burn it that way and it gets pumped through the tank.

We can call it fuel. Well hold on a

Executive Producer Tania: second.

Crew Chief Brad: And you use a fuel pump to get it outta the tank.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s some Star Trek stuff, man. That is, no,

Executive Producer Tania: you know what would be interesting? We need to do the math on the price of a quart of wood equivalency. The quart of wood per gallon to fuel per gas. Like is this really, it’s more

Crew Chief Eric: expensive.

Of course. It’s like $600 a cord. How much gas are you buying?

Crew Chief Brad: Would it be more powerful and more efficient if you douse the wood and like lighter fluid?

Crew Chief Eric: No, it would burn faster. So here’s the other problem, okay. To make those wood chips, he’s gotta burn diesel to run his chipper at $6 a gallon to make fuel for the truck.

It doesn’t work.

Crew Chief Brad: He’s using coal. [01:04:00] It just.

Crew Chief Eric: See you read my mind because that’s the next logical conclusion to Tanya’s problem, which is because the wood chips get wet. Well, why don’t I use the wood chips in a device where I can use it to heat something else and maybe make, oh, I don’t know, steam. Steam Powers next watch.

Revolutionary idea.

Crew Chief Brad: We have gone full circle.

Crew Chief Eric: The internet still gives me hope. It’s stuff like this.

Crew Chief Brad: For what?

Crew Chief Eric: That I can find something actually entertaining.

Crew Chief Brad: So you tell me, this guy’s in Florida.

Executive Producer Tania: No. You know what it’s said? It was a finish. A Finnish Chevy truck. So do they mean like this is in Finland?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it has a European license plate. I just noticed that. It’s got the long, skinny one.

Executive Producer Tania: There you go.

Crew Chief Brad: I love that giant radiator.

Crew Chief Eric: What is Daniel in Finnish? We need to convert his name.

Crew Chief Brad: I think Daniel is universal.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay. He’s not a Bjorn. He’s. All right, if that wasn’t enough, let’s move on to [01:05:00] rich people things.

Crew Chief Brad: This is the, the opposite of rich people things.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I have just an announcement more than anything else, not anything to share on the rich people thing side. I just want to invite everybody to come join us July 10th through the 12th in South Bend, Indiana for the Automotive History Live conference.

That’ll be in conjunction with the concourses at kol, which is operated and sponsored by the Studebaker National Museum. So you get to meet folks from Studebaker, the Society of Automotive Historians, as well as Don from Garage Style Magazine, and you’ll see William Big Money Ross, John Summers, the motoring historian, and yours truly on stage giving a presentation about the Bianco Spial.

So if you haven’t listened to those podcast episodes, go back and jump in on those. But if you can’t make it to South Bend for that week in July, that’s okay. We’ll be live streaming the event. From our Twitch feed on Twitch tv, grand Touring Motorsports. So more [01:06:00] details to come. So stay tuned to the drive-through and our digital magazine for those updates.

Crew Chief Brad: And don’t forget, if you’re looking for that extra special automobile to complete your garage office den or mancave, be sure to check out garage style magazine.com for a list of upcoming auctions and events, along with a curated list of items going up for sale all over the country, because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage.

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks for that, Brad. And now we’ll switch gears and talk about are you faster than an interceptor?

This is a real concern. I’ve seen multiple posts about this. I don’t know how many of ’em are real, but this one came from life in Florida. They’re gonna start using drones to catch speeders on the highway.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, that sucks.

Crew Chief Eric: Right.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s always those signs on the road that say, [01:07:00] enforced by air or something, and it’s like, what?

Really? Like

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Speed checked by aircraft or whatever it is. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: What plane is flying overhead or helicopter clocking someone? Nobody, I’ve never seen it, but this is actually sadly ingenious.

Crew Chief Eric: It is. But these drones have a short lifespan though. Especially these quad rotor ones where they, they use a lot of energy.

They’re gonna nab somebody, but they’re not gonna nab everybody.

Crew Chief Brad: You know? It would probably be better if it ran on wood.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh. Oh geez.

Crew Chief Brad: I love that. It shows, it displays your speed. It would be really cool if it announced it like in cars three, ah, where they’re on the beach and there’s, it’s announcing your speed.

It’s like, Jarvis, what is my speed? 75 miles an hour, 76 miles an hour, 80 miles an hour, 85 miles an hour.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know like that. That’s definitely an AI generated picture. But the point is this Skynet police state future that we’re creating for [01:08:00] ourselves, it’s scary, right? I mean, it takes all the joy out of driving, and I’m not saying that you should be out there breaking the law and, and speeding and stuff like that.

I mean, it takes the fun out of cops and robbers I guess a little bit. You know, are you faster than an interceptor at its core? But drones, that’s a scary post-apocalyptic future that we’re talking about there.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s the future, unfortunately. So I don’t like it. But you know what, unfortunately we’re all gonna have to get used to this kind of stuff.

Crew Chief Eric: Uh, but you know, the side effect is gonna be in Florida, the reports are gonna be drunken man with alligator and passenger seat shoots down drone with 30 cal Cannon. You know what I mean? Like it’s gonna be like skeet shooting. It’ll be the next great sport is to get out in your wood powered square body and shoot down drones at 70 miles an hour.

Executive Producer Tania: That’ll be the plus side to this.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s gonna happen wherever there is drone, there is counter drone. That is a real situation.

Crew Chief Brad: I thought it’d be something like Florida man dies trying [01:09:00] to ride drone like Rodeo Bull.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s another good one. And I guarantee that’s gonna happen too. Yeah. This next one is another sort of sad story, and this is, I hate to say shame on you, Jake, from State Farm.

Shame on you, limu, emu, and Doug. A fleeing suspect totals a New York woman’s car and her insurance company isn’t gonna pay out,

Executive Producer Tania: is it? Shame on Jake from State Farm or limu IMO and Doug because she did not have collision insurance.

Crew Chief Eric: This is a freak accident. This is like when the frozen boulder of poo lands on your car from the airline.

Like that’s the same thing. Like, come on. That’s not her fault.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s not her fault.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that a collision? She didn’t collide with anybody?

Executive Producer Tania: No, but she only has personal injury liability on the car. So if the insurance company does not want to be gracious. They’re within their legal rights to say, too bad, so sad.

No persons were injured in this. You did not pay for collision insurance on the car. Therefore there’s no coverage.

Crew Chief Eric: I [01:10:00] got tetanus just looking at this car, personal injury, pay out.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s like, where are you going with that?

Crew Chief Brad: No. Her next step is to go after the state.

Executive Producer Tania: It, it is unfortunate. I mean, the insurance company, they’d have to be gracious and not an insurance company.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a scam. You pay all this money into the system and when you need it, they’re like, nah, nah. But she

Crew Chief Brad: wasn’t paying enough.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m sure she paid enough to get a new car.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, yeah, but based on the pricing of whatever her insurance company was, she didn’t pay enough.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, it’s an Impala after all.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, but if she, like everybody’s saying, if she didn’t have collision,

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know that collision counts in this particular instance.

Crew Chief Brad: It does.

Crew Chief Eric: If nothing else, this is gonna get tied up in court.

So somebody’s gonna buying her a new car at some point.

Crew Chief Brad: So Eric, I see your point. Her insurance company should not be liable for this, but the other person’s insurance company should through their liability insurance

Crew Chief Eric: or the police [01:11:00] or whoever.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. So because this is not her fault,

Executive Producer Tania: but if they haven’t found the person who did it, there’s no other insurance company to, yeah.

Call or if the other person didn’t have insurance,

Crew Chief Brad: she needs to get a lawyer and see the state.

Crew Chief Eric: And on top of that, you can literally tell from the pictures. You don’t have to be a crime scene investigator. We don’t need to call Grissom for this one. You can tell that was not an accident created by something hit this vehicle because you cannot do that on the road.

There’s no way. I bet it

Crew Chief Brad: was an Ultima.

Crew Chief Eric: Of course it was. And it kept going ’cause it’s here for all of it.

Executive Producer Tania: The only thing she could do is sue the person for, I don’t even know. Does it count property damage? Personal property damage something?

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, that’s like squeezing blood out of a turnip.

Executive Producer Tania: Who else are you gonna sue?

Crew Chief Brad: She could sue the police for inciting a chase.

Crew Chief Eric: Ooh. Interesting. I wonder if that holds up,

Crew Chief Brad: whether it holds up or not. It gives her another option.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, a good lawyer will find a way to make it happen. And then on top of that, there’s the whole garnished weeds thing. ’cause May, this is her only car. She can’t get to work right now.

[01:12:00] She’s gotta do Uber or whatever it is that she’s doing.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, but she’s in New York Public transportation. Unless she’s using the car for work that doesn’t hold up.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Crew Chief Brad: She needs to go to the police. She needs to sue the police. She’s a victim.

Crew Chief Eric: She’s a victim for sure.

Crew Chief Brad: She needs to sue the police to get a new Ultima.

Crew Chief Eric: Shame on you. Jakes from State Farm. That’s all I’m saying. Oh boy. Tanya brought us one. What is this?

Crew Chief Brad: That’s a funny place to park.

Crew Chief Eric: What the,

Executive Producer Tania: here’s a video.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s Oh shit.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Wait, what was this? A publicity stunt?

Executive Producer Tania: Supposedly not.

Crew Chief Eric: The guy in the Lambo was like backing up.

Oh wow.

Crew Chief Brad: Because he saw her coming.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, she that high up that she couldn’t see ’em.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s what the article alleges was she’s so lifted and oblivious that she didn’t see the hurricane.

Crew Chief Brad: So I will say, having driven these Silverados of this model year, this body style

Crew Chief Eric: uhhuh,

Crew Chief Brad: it is. One of the reasons I didn’t buy it is ’cause it is nearly impossible to see over the hood.

Crew Chief Eric: And you’re a tall guy. She’s not very tall.

Crew Chief Brad: [01:13:00] I’m six four. Yeah, I know. I can totally see how this is feasible.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, we joke about how the movies are fake. Like, oh, you could never do it. Ran right up the front of that Lamborghini like it was a ramp.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, the hood of the truck is like a foot above the roof of the thing.

So

Crew Chief Eric: the hood, the bottom of the bumper’s above the hood of the Lamborghini.

Executive Producer Tania: No, no, no. I’m saying the hood of the truck is above the roof of the Lamborghini. Oh yeah. Yeah. So like her line of sight, especially if she’s not paying attention, you, you can’t see that car.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow. You think Jake from State Farm’s gonna pay out on that one?

Executive Producer Tania: Woo.

Crew Chief Eric: That Lambos gonna get totaled. That’s what that’s gonna happen to that. That’s a what? $250,000 car A Huan easily. Maybe more.

Crew Chief Brad: It’ll be 1 25 on the salvage market.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey man, that motor’s still good. That’s all I’m saying. Well, let’s go behind the pit wall. Talk a little bit about motor sports news. So there was a small blur this month about nascar, and we talked about this two [01:14:00] years ago in the drive through where they were testing.

An EV version of the NASCARs that we have today. And they kind of went quiet. And now NASCAR is considering racing the EVs.

Crew Chief Brad: So there’s gonna be a NASCAR version of Formula E.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Or the next generation of nascar. I mean, in my mind, they just got rid of carburetors. So like this is woo ev. What?

Crew Chief Brad: What’s it gonna sound like?

Crew Chief Eric: It’s like a bunch of Dyson vacuum cleaners out on track. Terrible

as they plateau. Like, can you imagine on an oval, like has Formula E even tried that? I mean, they’re doing road courses.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. It’s gonna it, it’s gonna make it like 10 laps

Crew Chief Eric: terrible. All right, well speaking of terrible, switching over to sports car and endurance racing Monkey C Monkey Dew in the Formula one world, all I have to say is GT three racing plus land stroll equal.

Epic fail. Do I need to say anything else? Lance [01:15:00] Stroll. GT three racing.

Crew Chief Brad: Who keeps telling this guy that he’s a good driver?

Crew Chief Eric: I just wanna read the stats from the race. I laughed so hard when I saw this. The first time he was lapped 12 times four. Milli one driver was lapped. 12 times. He had 465 seconds of penalty.

Now, that wasn’t all his responsibility for what I read, and he finished 48th.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, how many cars?

Crew Chief Eric: 47.

Oh my God.

Crew Chief Brad: Where was this

Crew Chief Eric: driving? An Aston Martin, GT three. What a clown. What a buffoon like, do you think he’s gonna do more of these?

Executive Producer Tania: I saw something and I didn’t save it down, whatever. It was basically saying, you know, land Stroll deserves his seed in F1. You know, he won the championships leading, you know, whatever championships he was in leading up to Formula One.

And I’m like, I didn’t even read the whole thing. I’m like, look. Maybe he [01:16:00] deserved his initial seat into Formula One based on performance leading up to Formula One. But in no way does he continue to deserve his seat in Formula One. If his father wasn’t the owner of the

Crew Chief Eric: the Blue Jean Company

Executive Producer Tania: of the team, he’d be gone.

He would’ve been gone already. Nobody would keep him around. So at this point, no. He does not deserve a seat in Formula One.

Crew Chief Eric: I didn’t know you could get your Formula One racing license by going to the Lego Traffic School at Legoland Ron. Oh, your face.

Crew Chief Brad: Lance Stroll, just, I know that’s why you watch Formula One, but we’ll talk about that on the other episode.

Crew Chief Eric: And since we’re talking about sports car and endurance racing, I just wanna mention that we have scheduled a whole bunch of evening with the legend throughout the next couple of months. So if you’re interested in being part of the live audience, we have Charles Mendez coming on April the 29th, followed by the legendary Michael Kaiser in [01:17:00] May.

And then Nicholas Bole in June and David Cot, who’s famous for running the Red Lobster racing BM BMW M1 in August. So check out motoring podcast.net, look under shows, and then evening with a legend and you can jump on and register to be part of the live audience. I just do wanna talk about some virtual stuff ’cause that is now part of our catalog of things that we talk about now.

So they just released a set of course of EVO six or 0.6, the sixth release, I don’t even know what to call it. They’re not even a 1.0 version. They keep modifying the game. This brings a bunch of current Gen GT three cars, like nine elevens and stuff to the table. It also adds Sebring and two classic supercars.

You get the chance to drive the Kunta and the 2 88 GTO Ferrari. The big downside to a CC Evo being a evolution. Every time they change something, they either break something else or they completely change the way you had it set up and it wipes out all your settings and you gotta spend the next three [01:18:00] hours, like recalibrating everything as I wasted a whole bunch of time getting it set up so I could try it before talking about it.

Today. Some of the changes they made to calibration are actually really cool. They, they’re showing you things like pedal output versus what the game thinks it seems, so you can really calibrate the pedals, which really help dial in braking and, and launching with the clutch ’cause the clutch is always an issue and, and getting shifting smoother and stuff like that.

So you’re really able to dial in the dead zones and all that kind of stuff. I will say pedals feel a lot better. The racing was a lot better. The F 40 is still a hoot, but it’s also garbage to drive ’cause they made it way too fragile. So they need to stop making it so lifelike. It would be nice to be able to finish a race without the transmission exploding, but it is getting better.

You know, they’re making changes, stuff like that. I’ll say I, I had one of my best races going back to what we talked about earlier. I hopped in the NSX and it was like, it can go the whole race. It was super reliable, it was quick and it was fun and it’s agile and I was like, just make ’em more [01:19:00] like that. I will say that they changed the physics model a little bit, which is really cool because it is more true to life in the sense that if you go into a turn a little too hot, like the backend steps out in a more realistic way, but you can catch it.

And it’s not like Tokyo Drift kind of thing. Like it feels more like being at the track where you’re having a code brown moment, but you can recover from it. So I was really, really excited about that change. So if they stay on that path, that’d be great. They just need to make the cars a little less fragile.

Now on the other camp, project Motor Racing, that’s the other big one this season, right? That’s based on kind of picking up where project cars two left off. It’s a lot of the developers from that original title. It got a whole UI facelift. So when I logged in, I’m like, where? Yeah, I used to click here to do, I don’t know, I either like relearn the whole menu system and it did get some iconic cars.

One of them is right on the cover of the update. That’s the E 46, M 3G TR, I mean that amazing car. So you get to play with stuff like that. And you know, I’ve been progressing with it since it launched [01:20:00] just like a C Evo. And I still think the TransAm GTO series is the reason I keep playing that game because TransAm GTO isn’t available in anything else right now.

And it is absolutely awesome. It’s my favorite class, hands down. But I’m glad to see both of these games progressing or both of these sims progressing versus some other titles have just completely stalled out. Like I haven’t seen an update for EAs, WRC in a while. There’s been a bunch of other stuff that’s just completely flatlined, so who knows what’s going on there, but we’ll keep tabs on it.

But these are the two big ones for this year if you’re just getting into virtual racing. So that said, our Motorsports News is brought to you in part by Endur Reverse, powered by Hyper Dev America’s premier endurance racing community. So check it out online to become a member@www.interreverse.com. Well, it’s time for the GTM Track side report.

So we got a quick update on our unfocused performance lemons project. We got new motor mounts, we got a new clutch because we figured it’s [01:21:00] probably be smart to not be on the side of the track, 20 minutes in with the unknown history and 237,000 miles on the engine. Might as well do the clutch and make sure that at least we can go more than 20 minutes.

So that’s done. We have yet to do the brakes and we still need tires. And we haven’t decorated the car yet. So if anybody’s looking to help us out there and if you’re look, and if you can’t, you know, a couple bucks would be nice too because all this stuff’s getting expensive really fast. So our first event was supposed to be mid Ohio, like we talked about in the last drive through, but we pushed it off to June 5th through seventh weekend at New Jersey Motorsport Park, that’s the hoop de at New Jersey.

So we’re looking forward to getting the focus out there and doing our first laps. We have some commitments from some drivers, so that’s gonna be good. And hopefully the car will be done in time and hopefully fully decorated. But again, if you are in the area, you wanna come and meet us, you wanna come and hang out.

The paddock is always open. It is free to spectate at lemons events, if I remember correctly. Don’t quote me on [01:22:00] that, but it is a spectacle. It is worth checking out. There’s always a crowd. The cars are really, really interesting and you know, when you start a hundred plus cars in a two and a half mile track, it is absolute chaos.

So we are looking forward to that for sure. Brad, are you excited?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, I am, I’m not gonna be able to make it to the race, but I’m excited for the lemons race. I will be able to make it to.

Crew Chief Eric: But you got your Santa Claus suit now. You bought a driving suit and everything?

Crew Chief Brad: I did, I did, but unfortunately I’ve got other prior commitments that weekend.

Crew Chief Eric: Aw, so you’re gonna race in October at some point, right?

Crew Chief Brad: I’m definitely gonna be there for that. Uh, I’m trying to figure out another time to get there. To get out in the car and get some sea time before that event as well. So

Crew Chief Eric: I am hoping, crossing my fingers, they had planned this year, New Jersey Summit Point and then they added Road Atlanta to the schedule.

I really wanna get to Road Atlanta that’s in December, so we gotta wait till all the way to the end of the year, which would be a great way to recap and look back over all the progress we made. Maybe we can squeeze in another race here and there. But yeah, super looking forward [01:23:00] to at least the three races that we’ve committed to for the year.

Just gotta get the car done, get everything prioritized and buttoned up and all that kind of thing and still working on a design. Right? Tanya?

Executive Producer Tania: Thought we were done.

Crew Chief Eric: We well, are we? But we’re unfocused, which means we are not committed quite yet.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s why the design is blurry.

Crew Chief Eric: Uh, is that what it is? Oh, I thought it was my eyes.

You’re getting older.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you’re not quite ready to hit the track, don’t forget that you can find tons of upcoming local shows and events at the ultimate reference for Car Enthusiast collector car guide.net.

Executive Producer Tania: If you’re hearing us for the first time, be sure to jump back into our podcast catalog and check out other programs we offer, like the Ferrari marketplace, the motoring historian evening with a legend, the Racers round table, formula, fanatics, break fix, and of course, the drive through.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you enjoy our various podcasts, there’s a great way for you to support our creators on the MPN. There’s tons of extras and bonuses to explore on our updated Patreon page. Learn more about our bonus and behind the scenes content. Get early access to [01:24:00] upcoming episodes or support our 24 hours of lemon’s Team, please, when you consider becoming a break fix VIP by visiting patreon.com/gt Motorsports.

As always, thank you to our co-host and executive producer, uh, who no longer sounds like Kathleen Turner this month. But, uh, Tanya, thank you and to all the fans, friends and family who support Grand Tour Motorsport, as well as the Motoring Podcast network. Without you, none of this would be possible.

Crew Chief Eric: Good job, guys.

Good job.

Was a Is your microphone working?

Crew Chief Brad: Who me?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, there it goes.

Crew Chief Brad: I didn’t say anything.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, I thought you did.

Crew Chief Brad: No, I get myself into trouble every time I say something. Mm.

Crew Chief Eric: Only on this show.

Crew Chief Brad: Only anytime I talk. There’s Tanya. Hi, [01:25:00] Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: Sorry. I was dealing with a spider. Of

Crew Chief Eric: course. It’s like that other episode

Crew Chief Brad: in a dark space.

A quiet space.

Executive Producer Tania: A quiet place. A

Crew Chief Brad: quiet place. Yeah. That’s what I was getting to. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a whole movie like that isn’t there? Where there’s like no talking

Crew Chief Brad: Three eyes. Yeah. I

Executive Producer Tania: don’t want to be in the quiet place.

Crew Chief Brad: No.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you guys hear that? There’s a podcast where there’s like no sound. You just tune in and it’s just nothing

Crew Chief Brad: That’s really dumb

Crew Chief Eric: for a moment there. I thought we, that sound like the

Executive Producer Tania: Yulong channel and Christmas.

Crew Chief Eric: I think so. You know what I mean? I, I don’t know that I could go more than, I don’t know, 30 seconds at least when the microphone’s on.

Crew Chief Brad: Hello and welcome to, we Don’t Talk where we don’t talk. Today’s topic is

Executive Producer Tania: not talking.[01:26:00]

The drive-through is our monthly news episode and is sponsored in part by organizations like Collector Car guide.net Project, motoring Garage Style Magazine, the Exotic Car Marketplace, and many others. If you’re interested in becoming a sponsor of the Drive-Through, look no further than www.motoringpodcast.net, click about, and then advertising.

Thank you again to everyone that supports the Motoring Podcast Network, grand Touring Motorsport, our podcast, break Fix, and all the other services we provide.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00:00 Show Kickoff
  • 00:00:51 Geopolitics Hits Auto Sales
  • 00:02:06 Ethanol Fuel Explained
  • 00:09:10 Diesel Shortage Fallout
  • 00:12:10 VW EV Touareg Debate
  • 00:18:42 VW China Jetta SUV
  • 00:22:19 VW Profit Crash Layoffs
  • 00:25:13 Stellantis Poissy Factory Shift
  • 00:27:38 Fiat Three Wheeler Returns!
  • 00:28:20 Morgan Supersport 400 Reveal
  • 00:30:09 GM Blackwing Farewell
  • 00:31:58 Corvette Stop Sale Recall
  • 00:35:03 Toyota GR Badge Creep
  • 00:36:59 Pininfarina NSX Restomod
  • 00:38:28 Kia’s new Stinger Concept
  • 00:39:37 Nissan Heritage Parts
  • 00:41:06 Smart EV Concept Talk
  • 00:44:31 Lost and Found: The Beetle RSI, or should you buy a Porsche 356 instead?
  • 00:53:16 Uncool Wall Nominee!
  • 00:55:14 Tesla Roadster Vaporware
  • 00:57:26 Seriously What Could Go Wrong?
  • 01:04:57 Events and Announcements
  • 01:06:25 Drones Catching Speeders, Trucks Climbing Lambos & other Florida Man stories!
  • 01:13:49 Motorsports News Roundup
  • 01:17:18 Sim Racing Updates
  • 01:20:49 Lemons Project Update
  • 01:23:20 Support and Sign Off

UnCOOL-wall! 

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Motoring Podcast Network

Leipert Motorsport secures podium finishes at Hockenheim

Leipert Motorsport entered two cars at the season opener of the new GT Summer Series. During free practice, the focus was on set-up work and gaining experience with the new Pirelli tyres. In qualifying, the team proved well prepared: the #9 secured starting positions seven, four and five for the weekend’s three races. The #44 qualified in eleventh place for the first two races and in tenth place overall for the third race.

For the #9, the weekend began with a setback: the car had to be retired due to a technical fault as early as the formation lap of the first race. In the two subsequent races, Drasal found his rhythm. In difficult, rainy conditions during the second race, this was rewarded with third place in his class. In the final one-hour race, he built on this performance and secured a solid second place.

#44 Binder (AUT) – Cup X class; Photo by Phil Hay, courtesy Liepert Motorsport

The #44 impressed with fighting spirit and consistency. Despite taking the lead on track in the first race, Binder ultimately had to relinquish it to the competition due to a 10-second time penalty. The #44 remained consistent throughout the rest of the weekend. In both the challenging wet race and the third race, Binder drove the car to second place in the Cup X class.

“We had a good start to the GTSS season. The series environment is excellent, so we will certainly be back on the grid for selected races. The drivers and team did an outstanding job despite unforeseen circumstances.” – Managing Directors Marc Poos and Marcel Leipert

Next week, the team will be heading back to Imola for the official Lamborghini Super Trofeo test, where the second round of the one-make cup will take place in two weeks’ time.


About Liepert Motorsport

Leipert Motorsport was founded in 2002 and became one of Europe’s top GT-Teams in Sprint- and Endurance-Racing. Spreading its GT-Engagement even wider across the continental borders, this step is the logical consequence for the German team after being a front runner and championship winning team in multiple competitions.

Driven by Purpose: The Remarkable Racing Journey of Ted Giovanis

Few figures in modern motorsport embody perseverance, curiosity, and reinvention quite like Theodore “Ted” Giovanis. Known for his tenacity both on and off the track, Ted has carved out a racing career that defies convention – one built not in youth karting leagues or junior formulas, but through passion, discipline, and a relentless desire to improve.

Today, Giovanis is recognized as the driving force behind TGM Racing and the JKTG Foundation, competing in IMSA and endurance events at some of the world’s most iconic circuits. But his path to professional racing began much more humbly – and unexpectedly.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

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Ted’s love for cars began early, but racing didn’t enter the picture until adulthood. In 1991, after buying a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR‑4, he had a moment of clarity on a highway interchange: “I demonstrated to myself that I was not as good of a driver as I remembered myself being.” That moment of self‑reflection — and a supportive nudge from his wife – sent him to his first driving school.

Photo courtesy Ted Giovanis, LinkedIn

From there, he dove into SCCA racing, progressing from BMW 2002s to E36 platforms, winning regional championships and setting track records along the way.

Spotlight

Synopsis

Break/Fix Podcast hosts Theodore “Ted” Giovanis with returning co-host Tom Newman to trace Ted’s unconventional path into road racing – from autocross and early SCCA club racing to Grand-Am/IMSA endurance competition! Ted discusses how Balance of Performance shapes modern racing strategy, the technical and human factors of endurance racing, and how benchmarking with pro-drivers transformed his driving approach. Ted also details the origin and mission of the Jane Koskinas Ted Giovanis (JKTG) Foundation for Health and Policy – formed after his wife Jane passed from metastatic breast cancer – its focus is funding specific researchers with minimal university overhead, and emerging uses of AI in diagnostics and biopsy analysis. The episode closes with Ted’s continued racing plans and future in pro-racing, even at the age of 80.

  • Ted, your journey into motorsports is as inspiring as it is unconventional—what first drew you to racing, and how did you take those first steps onto the track?
  • You’ve competed in endurance racing and IMSA events—what is it about endurance racing in particular that speaks to you as both a competitor and a strategist?
  • Many people know you not only as a racer but also as a businessman, philanthropist, and author. How do these different aspects of your life influence one another?
  • Through the JKTG Foundation, you’ve supported medical research and philanthropy. How do you see your racing efforts aligning with your mission off the track?
  • As someone who started racing later in life compared to most drivers, what message do you hope your story sends to others about following their passions?
  • Looking back on your career so far, what has been your proudest moment in racing, and why does it stand out?
  • What’s next for you Ted? —whether it’s on the track, through your foundation, or in new endeavors you’d like to explore?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix Podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder how did they get that job or become that person.

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Today we’re honored to welcome a truly unique figure in the world of motor sports. Theodore Giovannis known for his tenacity, both on and off the track. Ted is not just a passionate racer, but also the driving force behind JKTG Foundation racing where he has competed in series like IMSA and endurance racing at some of the most iconic tracks in the world.

His journey is one of determination and lifelong learning, balancing his career as a successful businessman, philanthropist, and author with his love for speed and competition. Today, we’ll dive [00:01:00] into his racing career, the challenges he’s faced, the lessons he’s learned, and how Motorsport continues to fuel his pursuit of excellence in every aspect of life.

And joining me tonight is returning guest co-host Tom Newman, who you might remember from our Randy Lanier and Paved Paradise episodes. So welcome back to the studio, Tom.

Tom Newman: Thank you, sir. I’ll be glad to be here.

Crew Chief Eric: And with that, let’s officially welcome Ted to break fix.

Ted Giovanis: How you guys doing? Glad to be here and looking forward to talking to you tonight.

Tom Newman: Excellent.

Crew Chief Eric: Good to see you as well, Ted. Well like all good break fix stories. They all have a superhero origin. So let’s talk about yours, your journey into motorsports. It’s as inspiring as it is unconventional. So what drew you into racing and how did you take those first steps onto the track?

Ted Giovanis: I was always interested in cars when I was really young, you know, as a teenager, but never really executed it along the way.

I bought a Corvette and I got into auto crossing, but never really did any road racing. Sold the Corvette. Then in 1991, I decided [00:02:00] I needed to have another sports car and I bought one. It was a Mitsubishi 3000 GTVR four. I was driving home from the dealership after picking it up and went on an interchange and demonstrated to myself that I was not as good of a driver as I remembered myself being.

So I scared myself. And then I went home and talked to my wife and I said, you know, what would you think if I went to a driving store? And she said, well, that would be, that would be cool. Why don’t you go do that? And so that was what set me off on a trajectory of road racing. I went to a driving school. I bought a car, a, uh, 2002 that had one three horsepower on a good day.

Started club racing from there. And so that’s what started this whole trajectory.

Crew Chief Eric: Describe your road to imsa though for a lot of folks, there’s a lot of steps to get there. So what was that like?

Ted Giovanis: I raced in SCCA Sports Guard Club of America. I went, at the time the professional schools like Bonderant in places like that.

They were not accepted [00:03:00] to get a license at that point. The only way you could really assure yourself that trajectory to get a license in SCCA was to go to an SECA school. So I had to go and you had to go to two of ’em. So I went There was in SCCA for, I’m still an SCCA license driver, but I participated in that.

Gradually progressing. I’m a progressivity kind of guy, so I went from 2000 twos to actually BMWE 36 ERs, which was the. Between 1990 and 1995 kind of platform. And so I, I raced those, had won, uh, regional championships, set track records. Then in 2006 I decided I might want to go into ssa. It wasn’t really EMSA at the time.

It was called Grand Am. It was a Grand America Road Racing series, which was a series that NASCAR put seed money into the Grand Am series and got Jim France to run it. After it grouped its base, it acquired [00:04:00] that, and then that collided with, there was the American Lama series, which was run by Don Panos.

That series was having some financial troubles, and so when Panos decided to sell that off. NASCAR bought both that and Grand M most ’em together with imsa, which was the prior sanction for A LMS. And then that’s sort of where that wound up NASCAR was trying to put sports cars in their book of business rather than just rounding, rounding track.

And when it bought a LMS, it also got Sebring, the hotel there, chat law and it got road Atlanta. And so that was my first participation in the sort of the Pro series in 2006.

Crew Chief Eric: You touched on Grand Dam and that’s where Tom comes into the equation here. So let’s go back to those days and then walk a little bit more forward into your time at emsa.

So any stories you wanna share about brewing with Ted and things like that?

Tom Newman: Ted left out, conveniently left [00:05:00] out the part where we had a, about three pickup trucks in various trailers versus to, oh, how far he’s come. And I remember one distinct experience. It didn’t start off as a pleasant story or pleasant memory.

Ted, do you remember when we were at Limerock and lost the motor in practice?

Ted Giovanis: I think I do.

Tom Newman: The paddock area was just a slog of mud. Yeah,

Ted Giovanis: we were down the other end. Yeah, that’s right.

Tom Newman: Myself and another frequent guest on the, on the show, Matthew Yip. Were sitting on a tailgate after, uh, we had loaded everything back up for the trip home.

We heard two beers crack. I’m not sure where Ted was at this point. I got a clap on the shoulder and Paul Newman said, you’ll get ’em next time. And walked off without another word. Ted kind of introduced me to the world of big time racing and left me, you know, dumbstruck by celebrity fanboys. But, uh, that’s true story and that was courtesy of Ted having me on his team.

Ted Giovanis: There was another thing [00:06:00] that happened then with Yip. I don’t know if that was the time, but it was at Limerock.

Tom Newman: Yep. It was, yip.

Ted Giovanis: We couldn’t find the key to his car.

Tom Newman: Yes, that’s right.

Ted Giovanis: So the, the trailer’s all packed up. It’s got everything in there including, you know, folding lawn chair things and everything that’s in there.

He can’t find his key. We look through everything and then we basically looked at each other and says, I think we gotta unpack the trailer ’cause it’s gotta be here somewhere.

Tom Newman: That’s right.

Ted Giovanis: And we unpack the whole trailer. So you’ve got these folding lawn chairs and they’re in these bags, you know, they, they’re, they’re so contained bags for whatever reason, we took the lawn chairs out of the bags and his key was in one of those net cup holders, how it got in there and who put it there having a clue.

But we were like, how is he gonna get this car home? Ever since then I’ve been on the pro side. We were only running a part of a year back then, five six [00:07:00] races. So half season just trying to get our feet wet. We landed on a BMW of three 30 because at the time in Grand Am you could build cars. You could build cars for the lower, slower class, which is called St.

Street Tuner. And then Grand Sport was the upper class, so you could build those cars. It’s not like that anymore.

Tom Newman: Speaking of BMWs, do you still have the Laguna SE Blue M three? Uh,

Ted Giovanis: no, that’s, that’s been gone for a long while. Uh, somewhere around 2010, I moved from Performance Car. I moved from the BMWs to a Porsche, and then I went that way, and I’m still in the Porsche family for a lot of cars

Tom Newman: now.

Did you seek out Porsche or did Porsche seek you out?

Ted Giovanis: No, I, I sought out pushing.

Tom Newman: Okay.

Ted Giovanis: It was all on the street side as Thomas Wright. I ended Laguna Blue, a 2002 year model year and three. What I had done is, was, I mean, I went through this tailspin of investment. I, I put [00:08:00] an exhaust on it, then I put a suspension on it ’cause I was tracking it too, so I put brakes on it.

So I went through all of this stuff and I’m just like, why can’t they just put all this stuff on it and charge us $15,000 more and hand us the key? ’cause it’ll all be kind of coordinated and matched. Well, it was just at that time when Porsche decided to offer a GT three Rs, that was my pretty much trajectory.

So as I was doing this, I was kind of still the amateur. I was in a pro series, but I did other things professionally for, with my life. One of the things that I was doing. Was I had, I had my own consulting practice, which was sort of the centerpiece of racing because it allowed me the flexibility to do whatever I needed to do to be away.

But one of the things that happened outside there in 2006, in my consulting practice, I found an error in how Medicare pays all the hospitals in the [00:09:00] country. That led to a litigation, which took six years between 2006 and 2012. So I was racing the whole time except for calendar 12, but that led to me eventually getting some money out of that appeal.

That changed the complexion of everything TGM did at the time, and so then that was when, in 2013, so I took 12 off. 2013, I engaged a pro driver who was a previous A LMS driver to drive with me. That began my transformation as a driver because the illuminating moment was I found out that despite my prior performances on track, and I found out everything I was doing was wrong.

So when you have a good benchmark and it’s undeniable that they’re in the same car on the same day, on the same truck. And you have data. It’s pretty revealing. It’s [00:10:00] also, the good thing is you can figure out where you’re doing wrong and try to work on fixing it, which I can tell you is the hardest part.

Changing bad behavior is not easy.

Crew Chief Eric: So when we ran into you earlier this year at VIR, you are behind the wheel of an Aston,

Ted Giovanis: right?

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about some of the race cars you’ve piloted in the Pro series. What has that been like? Has it been a mixed bag or have you been able to stay loyal to Porsche

Ted Giovanis: Mixed bag?

One of the guys that’s in the series, will Turner told me a long time ago, he’s at racing in the Pro series. Primarily because of the balance of performance adjustments is like Baskin Robs, it’s kind of a flavor of the month routine. And so I decided in 2016 to move to GS from st. I had one of Turner’s old cars in ST and then I bought one of Bimmer wheels S cars in AS team.

But I decided to get outta that and go to gs. When we went to Gs, we went to Porsche, and so we ran Porsche in 16 and 17. [00:11:00] Because we were trying to predict the balance of performance adjustments and what they would do and what, in 18 and 19 we went to Mercedes. Then in 20 and 21, which was during COVID, we made the decision to go to Chevy.

Chevrolet had a a GT four platform. All of these are GT four platforms that was based on, you know, the Camaro, but it was built by Pratt and Miller. It was a race car and there were like 13 of them in the world. Good thing about that is it was a really good car. The band part about it, when you only have 13 cars, nobody did a lot of test miles with them, so we were, it break stuff and whatever, not because we were crazy, but because we were breaking stuff like Sebring.

It is pretty bumpy and if there’s something wrong with it, you’ll find it. So in 2021 we were with them in [00:12:00] 22. We went back to Porsche. Par was pretty sorted. Bad thing is there were like five teams in had. First race was Daytona, Porsche, Motorsport thinking BOP. They told all the teams run full wing at Daytona.

In other words, your rear win otherwise slow at down. One team did car, got a BOP killed the car. So we had decided early on, uh, out of 22 to get out. And thereafter that’s when we switched to Astons. And so we switched to Astons, what’s called the 17 a chassis for 2324. And then in 25 we went to the Aston Martin Evo, which is the 40 a h Chassi.

So it, it’s got more dive planes and down force. It’s got more aerodynamic effects on it.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you opened the door to talk about BOP one of my favorite subjects when it comes to sports, car and endurance racing. And I’ve asked plenty of pro drivers, there are feelings about it, some toe the [00:13:00] political line, and some are more honest about how they feel about BOP.

Do you mind if we go down that route a little bit and get your opinion on balance of performance?

Ted Giovanis: I’m actually a little more balanced and it’s a hard job to try to equalize these cars, and so it takes a lot of effort and data. When it’s complicated, they don’t always get it right where I am. I understand.

I don’t like it, you know, I don’t like what the answers are. But it’s like anything else in life, you have to get your head around. You are gonna succeed and win no matter what they do. Try as they will slow you down. You gotta figure out a way to get better, faster. And however that is, you work with your manufacturer to try to change the BOP to get back something and to make the cars more reasonable.

But at the end of the day, you work on setups, you try to figure out what anything that’s wrong with the car, uh, you try to fix it, meaning we have two [00:14:00] aspens and this year we thought we wanna work like a two car team. So you put one setup on one car and one setup on another car, and then you learn faster.

You learn which ones faster. And it wouldn’t work. It was always confusing. And so we got stuck going to a test day at Watkins Glen torrential rains. And so we were like, God, we should have just let, like not come. But what we did with our race engineer, who was a new guy to us, the cars stayed in the garage the whole two days.

They took both cars pretty much apart side by side. And guess what? They found out? They weren’t the same. They were different. That was fairly enlightening about what we needed to do for setup. And some of it’s the mounting holes, it’s how thick the splitters are on one side versus the other side. So it’s all of this kind of stuff.

So you try to work through it. So we work with, only the manufacturer can talk to the series about the BOP. [00:15:00] And then the man, that’s another level of complexity because the manufacturer has to represent all of the cards of your make, whatever that is. And so they’re working to try to get the best average performance, but the way they do the BOP, what they do is they get data from the as in one highest placing card of each make.

So the BOP is actually based on one car of Tom’s car, whatever car Tom is driving of the BMW. And so the teams have different structures, whereas Tom is the paying gentleman. He brings you in as his pro. Depending on that relationship, Tom wants to win races. That’s drives Eric’s motivation and Tom’s motivation to win races.

However, winning races does not win championships,

Crew Chief Eric: right?

Ted Giovanis: [00:16:00] You can win a championship by hovering between third and fifth if you do that consistently. Our team is focused on winning championships, which is different. What that means is for a guy like, I’m just putting a bogey on you, Eric, a guy like a pro racer like you, you wanna win.

But we gotta get you to hold the line because going as fast as you can is disadvantageous to your fuel mileage. So we are gonna tell you to run. To a number on the dash because we have fuel burn for per liters and it’s between 2.6 and 3.9 or something like that, depending on the track. What we’ll say is you gotta run this number because what we’ve calculated, the people in the pits have calculated that if you run that number from the time you got into the car, you won’t have to stop again, but the other guys might.

So once you get to a certain point, if we know you’re good on fuel, we’ll turn you loose. You see what I mean? Then you can [00:17:00] try to win the, win the race, but uh, you’re following a guy, you tend to want to get past him. But guess what? He probably wants to save fuel too. So if you don’t push ’em too much and you wait till you’re ready.

Then you go.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s funny because this is the same dynamic in Formula One as it is in other disciplines of racing.

Ted Giovanis: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: I think the rub comes in for enthusiasts and fans sitting on the other side that may not know the intimate and intricate details as you just explained ’em about how BOP works and the strategy of racing as it is, you know, in today’s era of racing.

Because I think a lot of us look back to, I’ll use Can-Am as an example, build a better mousetrap. You wanna be first and put a bigger motor in and that’s gonna cause you to pit 10 times. Well, you know, if you got a 22nd lead, you know, so be it. The days of the Brian Redmonds and the David Hobbes and that type of racing is unfortunately long gone.

And when I look back over the history, I unfortunately tend to blame Audi for this. BOP came into effect because of the quatros, because it was so [00:18:00] unbalanced in imsa. They had to do something or the manufacturers were all gonna pick it and leave. It’s changed the whole dynamic of racing and for those of us watching at home, were like.

Just let ’em race. Like if the Mustangs faster, they had the advantage and they won it, you know? So, you know, having come up through the system after all these years, do you feel that racing is still as fun as it used to be, let’s say, in the good old days? Or is it much more math, science and very, very intricate?

Ted Giovanis: It’s fun in a different way, to be honest with you. That’s the big similarities between racing and what I do in research. It’s all about modeling. It’s all about forecasting and figuring out how things work and what the relative strengths of a particular decision are. And you don’t have this in sprint races and amateur races because you’re only 25 minutes.

You just put gas in it and put air in a tire and you go. But when you move to endurance racing, you’re dealing with tire degradation, human degradation. If you’re going longer races, it’s all about arresting the [00:19:00] derate of either human capital or the physical. If you’re blinding lift fast and you burn tires off, you gain over here and then you lose back here.

Or is it better to be like this and have a, a little slower ate out there where your average time is better? And so that’s sort of what the game is now. And endurance racing, all of the rules are geared to trying to give each car and each driver pairing somewhat of a a chance. And back in the good old days, if you could build your car and you knew how to make it work and you had enough money, you could win.

They’re trying to change some of that, if you know what I mean, and try to balance it out. And so that’s what driver ratings are about. You can’t have too many gold people in the same car. The platinums are usually factories, so you can’t have too many of them in the car, and you’re trying to balance out.

Because the easy thing is, is, I mean, if Tom’s the fastest [00:20:00] driver or the three of us, you just keep him in the car all the time. You just make ’em run the whole race. Well, they sit down. You can’t do that if you’re, he’s paired with me. The minimum drive time is 40 minutes for the pair. One of us could drive 40 minutes and get out, and the other one can drive the rest of the two hours.

Cool. That’s still compliant with the rules. But they have these different driver time rules, so you don’t just get all the super duper pooper drivers. ’cause let’s face it, if we got the biggest budget we can win. So we hire the best drivers, put ’em in a car and whatever. So in Formula One, that’s what in theory, the budget caps are trying to do, trying to smooth that out.

Because if somebody can spend 300 million, but Tom can only spend a hundred million, he’s gonna lose. And so you, you have this allocation of resources, uh, wind, tunnel time, all that kind of stuff. So that’s what they’re trying to do with us. It’s different pools. Our cars are supposed to be built to a GT four spec, the ones in, in the 24 of the GT three spec, and that’s [00:21:00] all sanctioned by the SRO.

It doesn’t mean that they’re all the same. That means that they can achieve a theoretical similar lap time with a pro in it. But you can decide how big that gap is. That’s what the SRO does. Can it be a second elap, maybe? Well, that’s a big difference. And so when ISA went to, you have to have a GT four certified car from the SRO.

Then ISA can make adjustments to slow it down. It can make you run different engine maps. It’s that kind of stuff is, see what I mean? So there’s a, yeah. Nuances. It is pretty technical. What’s better, more torque or more power? The answer kind of is, depends on how long the straightaway you’re going onto.

Crew Chief Eric: I thought it was horsepower, was how fast you hit the wall and torque was how far you pushed it.

Ted Giovanis: Yeah, that’s, that’s same way. But if the straightaway is not too long, you want the torque.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. So

Ted Giovanis: there are adjustments in our cars that give you the [00:22:00] torque, lower end versus upper end. It just means you’ll lose on top speed. Tom’s car can get to 1 65, let’s say, but most of the time the cars only get to 1 63.

So why does he need the extra power to get him to 1 65? He needs the torque to get him outta the corner. ’cause he can get to his max speed faster. So it’s a gigantic trade off. It may not play well. We want to be out in front. We want everybody else to figure out saying, how can they be out that far? And the IMSA guys are looking at it saying, well, how do we get everybody at the finish line at the same time all the makes?

Because each manufacturer has the following. I know drivers do too, but people come to see the Porsches and the Mercedes and the Fords and the whatever they come to see that the way the series looks at it, they want each manufacturer to have a chance. I’m not saying to win, but have a chance to win. And that’s sort of what affects their [00:23:00] metrics with balance of performance.

Tom Newman: You mentioned that the, uh, the BOP is based on the top performing race car of a particular chassis produced by a manufacturer. You are a true privateer. How much advocacy does the manufacturer give you when trying to adjust these balance of power? Clearly, because of the technical nature of this, you have tons and tons and tons of data.

Do they advocate for the privateers or are they mostly interested in those top teams?

Ted Giovanis: They are generally advocating for the platform like Eston Martin, GT four Evo, or the Porsche, GT four, or the Mercedes. So they’re advocating because that BOP is gonna apply to everybody. Everybody that’s got one of those makes, they’re working to do that.

The manufacturers get data from all of the cars, all of our cars, all of the Astons, Aston’s got it all. All of the Porsches, Porsche got it all. So they can [00:24:00] look at that across ’em. Now, they’re not supposed to be helping you versus Eric versus me, if you know what I mean. If we have the same card, they’re not supposed to be doing that, and they can help you in a little way.

They can give you baseline setups or something like that, but pretty much you’re on your own. What they’re doing is they’re advocating with the series and the BOP committee. To work on the data, and it’s more of an argument about what that data means, and the series has data more refined than us. For example, Eric mentioned Formula One.

Think about it in Formula One, when you look at most of the Formula One tracks, they have three zones, 1, 2, 3, of which they, they’re tracking data and all that kind of stuff. Well, SA gets it for like 10, so they know within zone one what those segments are. We don’t, and the manufacturer doesn’t get it that way.

So there’s an advantage that they have, I’ll say an advantage they have, they have more data than [00:25:00] we have.

Tom Newman: Interesting.

Ted Giovanis: If they interpret things in a certain way, you can’t prove ’em wrong.

Crew Chief Eric: You don’t have the same fidelity that they do. Yeah.

Ted Giovanis: So you gotta remember, the best thing to do is you need to figure out how to make your car faster.

And it doesn’t have to do with power all the time. It has to do with handling. Uh, sometimes your brake pad compounds are open. They’re not in the spec. Anytime you want, you can use any manufacturer brake pad, so you can use pad or anything. Then you’ve got compounds within that. So you, you use your connections with the brake pad manufacturers to get the best pads.

You see what I mean? Different compounds of pad front to rear. Now tires we’re stuck. We all have to use whatever tires. That’s part of what IMSA does. And so sometimes the manufacturer will advocate for like a, a heavier car advocate for a wider front tire if [00:26:00] the car’s pushing a lot so they can do that.

You see what I mean? They do basically, it’s all of the segments around the track. It’s not just the straightaway, it’s. Quarter speed and then exit. And the mid quarter, the mid corner is, is a key area to work on. If you’ve been watching, uh, I don’t mean to throw back to Formula One, but if you’ve been watching the Formula One stuff and you hear or stop and complaining about how the car’s I balanced or whatever, forget about the poring stuff, he’ll talk about balance.

Well, balance is you are uncomfortable in the corners at what the car’s doing. It’s not feeling right. When you’re not comfortable or confident, you can’t put it on the edge ’cause you’re still feeling of what it’s going to do in the end. The most significant thing I learned when I started driving with a pro is one fact.

It’s not about the pedals, it’s about feeling the weight. And if you feel the weight on each of the four corners, that’s when you’re, you [00:27:00] need to see what it’s gonna do, where it’s going. And then your head tells your feet to do what with the pel. You see what I mean? So if you can’t feel the front turn, you better not touch the throttle, because what it’s gonna do is pull weight off the nose and it’s not gonna turn even more.

So it’s counter what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to get to the go pedal quick. But if the car’s not pointed right, that’s why you need a bigger front tire on some of these cars then. And then you need to figure out how to drive them differently. Because it’s like, well, the Mercedes and the Aston, they’re kind of similar cars.

You have to drive ’em differently. So that’s another complication where the driver comes in and a guy that’s like me, that’s not really a, I wasn’t born like a pro driver. I didn’t come up and that wasn’t my destiny from the time I was a kid. So you have to learn how to adapt, which is complicated. If you’ve learned it a certain way,

Tom Newman: you’re just [00:28:00] reiterating what I’ve told students for many, many years.

The most valuable sensor in the car is the seat of your pants.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what Hanok always said too, you know?

Tom Newman: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: But I think, actually this is a great segue, Ted, to talk about some of the challenges you’ve faced coming up through the system. Are there any stories you can share, maybe most challenging weekends, things you learned from those weekends that have transformed you as a driver?

Ted Giovanis: The key is to learn the good attributes or the good approach. With me it was more, you know, learning about weight management and not power management. It’s a philosophy of an approach. Racing is actually a lot like life. Well, certainly you have to want to do it, but you need to understand you can be tested in what you think you’re gonna achieve.

The year we, we went to Porsche in 2016 in Gs. We were at Canada coming down the back straightaway. It was a test day. It was back [00:29:00] in the, in the days when they used to let the track have a promoter test day as a way to get some of the money back that they were paying IMSA to come there. And so they got money from us in a test day, but he was coming down the back straight as he went into, into brakes, and he lost brakes.

Car went into the wall and we were really worried about him. So we lost a car for the race, but we had another car. So I was in practice the very next day and I was coming into the last turn and got tapped a little bit in the tail. The car shot sideways, and I went right into a concrete barrier and severed my achilles tendon, my right tendon.

I was done for the year. I couldn’t even walk, and we lost two cars that weekend. Four and a half months later, I was back driving a race car because I wanted to drive a race car. And that drove my approach to my surgery, which I was told the only way to be back a hundred percent is to get full [00:30:00] surgery and have, have the thing put back together because that’s the only way it’ll be a hundred percent.

So I did that and I went through all the therapy, did the thing, because I wanted to drive race cars again. However that happened, like July 17th or something like that. The first weekend in August, Hugh and Cosmo were driving the car. I was just sitting on the box watching. We’re always plugging different people into the team and we knew that we were having the team, so we, we wanted to have them together.

To keep the energy moving in the right direction. So that’s sort of, kind of an example. You, you don’t let the stuff slow you down, and some of it’s gonna be terrible. It wasn’t the most bled thing that I’ve ever done, but it’s not the worst. Okay. But then I was racing in the, in the IGT series in that series, erased only Porsches.

We were racing at Daytona. I came through the kink, screwed up, crashed the car. So I couldn’t really continue. And so we’re like, what are we gonna do now? [00:31:00] At the time I needed a Porsche Cup car and I was racing a Porsche Cup car in another series, but another team was doing it for me. It wasn’t our guys.

And so Hugh comes up with the idea. He says, let’s go get the other car. So we’re. Who’s got the other car? Well, a CI had the other car, so we called Kurt who owns a CI. This was on Saturday morning. He happened to be at a funeral for his father. Kurt hooks up with his guys in Chattanooga and our guys drove 10 or 11 hours to Chattanooga.

Met those guys at midnight, got the car, brought it back, and then I was on track the next day. So why don’t we do this? Because you’re sort of driven to wanna succeed because you’ve got a goal in in mind. So there are disappointments, unpleasantries, but then you do it because you want to, because you have a desire [00:32:00] to succeed, you desire to improve, desire to get, and that’s sort of where I am.

Crew Chief Eric: So earlier you mentioned how your day job in medical research, some of the aspects of that, the data crunching and the modeling have translated into the world of motorsport. Have any of the lessons you’ve learned in Motorsport translated into your medical research work?

Ted Giovanis: It’s not necessarily my work, but it starts off in your world of that you were talking about Formula One because those folks have huge mathematical models and they have tons of data from their cars.

It’s such where they can go in. And change one piece of the data to change and affect a part in the car and then rerun it for a whole race to see if the part’s gonna fail. We’re not doing that, but in medical research we are. Just think about it. I’m pretty much settled in the cancer space and more specifically barreling down in the [00:33:00] metastatic breast cancer space.

So that’s when cells get away and they go to a distant part of the body and then they start making trouble there. Imagine if there was a body part and we could simulate that part in a model. And then let’s say it was cancer, and we’re getting the data inputs for the models from how cancer responds in mice.

Then ultimately how it responds in humans by measuring people that are in clinical trials, they’re taking data from these sources. It’s, it’s like the F1 guys with the sensors for their car. We’re using this other kinds of data to try to model this, and then you can try to change the therapeutics to be more effective.

And so that’s sort of how the two relate together. And last year we started running the moniker on the car driving research, [00:34:00] and that comes from our research. My goal is to drive research the way we do it in the United States in a different direction than what we do. Pretty sure you guys will understand this.

You know where the red zone is in football?

Tom Newman: Oh yeah.

Ted Giovanis: That’s where the drug companies are. Just before you score from the 20 back to the 50. That’s where NIH is. I’m down the other end of the field trying to figure out how cells migrate, how they split, what do they talk? They talk to each other. What the hell are they saying?

Why does your immune system when a cancer cell says, I’m okay? Why is your immune system listen? Why does it attack it? So we’re trying to find out how this stuff works. And so if you knew how it worked, you could come up with strategies to get down the field in a more effective way. And the drug companies only want to jump in after things have been de-risked.

They’re closer to the ROI, that’s what their business is. But I’m trying to say, well, how do we get people better, quicker? And maybe it’s through modeling and it’s through a lot of the [00:35:00] research that’s getting published now from a lot of our cancer researchers. That’s why I say we’re, that we’re driving actually came from one of my cancer researchers.

He said, you’re driving us somewhere. Yep. That’s what we’re doing. And so what’s driving about it is I’m investing down this end of the field. Other people aren’t because down our into the field, the risk of failure in the context that the hypothesis, how we think it works is not how it works is higher.

So we might not prove our hypothesis. Research is based on Tom proving his hypothesis and then being able to get more money. That’s his sustenance in the research world. While I say, well, it’s okay if it doesn’t work that way, as long as we just tell everybody that. So now we all learn something and it’s no different than car racing.

What do you think we should do for a setup? Well, we’ll do this at this track on this day. We go out and say, oh, that’s terrible. Well, we failed. Now what do we do? Well, we gotta do something else. [00:36:00] And so it’s sort of crudely similar.

Tom Newman: Absolutely.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. There’s a couple things I wanna pull on there to clarify for our audience.

You talked about investing in the research space. You talked about, you know, using Thomas as an example to prove his hypothesis. This sounds like the genesis of the JKTG Foundation. Do you wanna explain a little bit more and elaborate on how that came to be and what it’s about and what it means?

Ted Giovanis: I alluded to the appeal.

I was in between 2006 and 2012. I had my own consulting practice and actually my wife was working with me in the consulting practice in 2001. Jane had, there was an initial finding of breast cancer. They removed it and she got radiation and had some other surgery and everything was fine until. 2008 when it emerged, it had metastasized to her bone.

Breast cancer likes to go to bone, lung, liver, and brains. For whatever reason, we still don’t know why it has a [00:37:00] preference. We’re still working on that. So she had it in her left hip. That was in 2008. Then she went through all kinds of of therapies. December 31st, 2010, she’s dead. Two weeks later, we win the appeal.

So during 2011, I knew I was gonna get money out of it from the appeal, and so I started to think about what I was gonna do next. And emerging through 12. The idea of the JKTG Foundation was born that I was gonna do something else. What I wound up doing was at the end of 12, we started filing applications for tax exemption with the IRS and they all, the legal eagles told me I would get approved in nine months.

I got approved in nine weeks as a game one. So the first part of 13 we worked in things I knew it’s the Jane Kaus, Ted Giovanni Foundation for Health and Policy. And so we jumped into the health policy space, which is [00:38:00] what I knew. And then in the middle of 14 we moved into the cancer space and we pretty much been there ever since.

So it was driven by Jane collided with me wanting to do something different. What I, I’m doing with the foundation is I funded it. I, I, I created an estate for it, which, uh, the foundation has, but it could always use more money because if I had more money, I’d spend it on more research and doing things that we can’t answer.

But that’s sort of where it all came from. But it grew over a period of time. It was purposed by events in my personal life.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, what I’m driving towards with this is we see all the time, logos, sponsorships, graphics, wraps, all sorts of things on race cars. And we wonder all the time, what is CrowdStrike really doing for that car?

Or what is Pennzoil have to do with this other car? Whatever it is. You know, if you look at all the iconic liveries over the years, whether they were tobacco, [00:39:00] alcohol, or whatever have you. But in your case, it’s something real. It’s something personal, and it’s something extremely pointed. Merging those two worlds, ’cause you’ve continued to race throughout all of this time as you’ve been building the foundation and whatnot.

How has Motorsport helped Springboard the foundation? How has it helped you gain exposure for the foundation?

Ted Giovanis: Not as much as I want, let’s put it that way. But there’s more people who are becoming aware of it. I guess there’s two aspects. One is you want other groups and philanthropies or whatever to put money into research.

It gets complicated because it’s not any old research, but it’s funding totally differently. I don’t pick organizations, I don’t pick big schools and I pick people. So you pick the best researchers, and if they just happen to be at Tom Newman University, it’s cool. I’m not going after Tom Newman University.

I’m going after. Eric, who happens to have a lab there. Then we cook up a project with them, which [00:40:00] tends to emanate from an unfunded idea that you had. And good people tend to have really good ideas, and so we wind up funding them. And what we do is we do it in a way, it’s not necessarily what the university wants because I’ll tell you why.

In a project of any, any sort, there’s always the direct research costs, what someone spends in the lab for the postdoctoral students that are doing the stuff and all that stuff. And then there’s the indirect cost. It’s called overhead. What we do in working with the researcher, we take this embryo and idea, we evolve it into some kind of project, which might look like a 10 or 12 page paper, and then we, the foundation come up with an agreement with the university.

Then the project is an appendage to that contract. Then we talk to the university and we don’t allow much or any indirect costs. That’s where they make their money. I’m interested [00:41:00] in the researchers and not the university per se. And so what we’re trying to do is I got a really small glob of peanut butter and I’m trying to spread it on this piece of bread without tearing it.

So I’m trying to get as thin as possible so I can do more with the guava peanut butter. ’cause they got a lot of things to do, a lot of people to, to look after. And so that’s why I don’t wanna blow it on indirect cost. I don’t care about the president of the university and their HR department or their fundraising people.

I don’t care about any of this. Why do they need anything? They didn’t really do anything for this. I brought the money, researcher did what he needs to do. He has the ideas and stuff, and for us, if they get his direct cost funded, they were gonna probably have to pay his direct cost if he didn’t get this money anyway.

So what’s the problem? This tends to empower the researcher and de power, if that’s a word, the university. And so that dynamic, it changes a lot of these researchers. We’ve funded stuff [00:42:00] for eight or so years and they’re always coming up with new and better things, and we’re always expanding our bandwidth.

And so the more we learn, the more everybody learns, the more it becomes an intellectual feeding frenzy where everybody wants to work on these different kinds of modeling projects. You know, some of it you can’t see directly from here to the patient. Like some guy came up with a new modeling grammar that allows all researchers to get this software that he created and be able to see if their project has any anything worth doing there.

And they can do it within having an hour of tutoring without having a bioinformatics person on their staff. So you get more people finding out more good or bad, it’ll work at Walmart, work faster. So more faster leads to a progress.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And that leads to a really interesting question about the use of AI both in your day job and in Motorsport.

So where do you see that [00:43:00] playing a role in both cases?

Ted Giovanis: Well, they’re already using it in some of our cancer research projects, but it needs to be managed by the right people. But yeah, AI is emerging right now at being very good at certain dimensions of healthcare, like reading radiology films. AI is much better at determining whether cancer is present or not present.

It’s like 95% accurate, whereas doctors are 65% accurate. Don’t take this hook and go out to see what my understanding of how that comes to be is AI is better. At determining what the good part of the film is. I mean, my whole hand was alone. There’s one little.here that’s bad. So what the AI is seeing is all of this other space that it’s perceiving that it’s very similar than it’s not a bad part.

You see what I mean? So it becomes more better at [00:44:00] that, which makes it good at identifying the bad stuff. And so one of our projects is doing that same thing with looking at biopsies of cancer. And in order to do this AI, you need a supercomputer. And so only so many people have it and it obviously it’s all over the news, gonna need a lot, lot of electricity.

And it’s not necessarily to power the computer, it’s to power the cooling mechanisms you need to keep everything cool when you’re running these babies. So you can’t just go. Oh, the three of us are gonna start using ai. We gotta have this little infrastructure,

Crew Chief Eric: the whole reason pit race got sold. But we’ll leave that where it is.

Ted Giovanis: The biopsy project’s gonna take, probably it’s gonna take a year and a half to feed the biopsies in there. ’cause it takes like an hour and a half to scan one. You get in there and then you can start to do some analytics of it. You gotta have some baseline information. So you gotta have a scan and you have to know something’s wrong with the scan.

So then [00:45:00] you can put this in there and then you can say to ai, Hey, look at this. What’s wrong? ’cause you know the answer. It’s sort of kind of like that. So that’s what we’re doing with biopsies. And so you’ll see this emerge more on the diagnostics, x-rays, whatever their diagnostics. And then I think you’ll see it emerge into more treatments or more monitoring during treatment.

Once we know it’s there and we decide on a certain therapy. We have to go back and look and say, is the therapy working? Are we doing good? Are we doing not so good? That’s sort of where the whole thing, uh, will shake out first, but it’s gonna take a while. You know, the limitations, the physical stuff, you know what I mean?

The supercomputers, the having the data to train it. I’ll ask you two, what idiot in their right mind would fund a project that deals most of the cost is feeding data and scanning it into a machine.

Tom Newman: The Department of Defense,

Ted Giovanis: well, well, that’s me. I’m paying for that, but you’re right. [00:46:00] Could do that. But I mean, it’s like that’s what you’re trying to do, but, and we don’t have the stuff scanned in to be able to train this thing.

It’s gotta have all the pieces together so it’s the right people, sort of the right conditions. That’s why I’m driving research with how we’re picking people. That’s sort of the simple version of it.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s switch gears and get back into some more racing conversation, shall we?

Tom Newman: In my experience, and certainly it’s not anything that’s approached yours.

We’ve seen some professional drivers move down from MS IMSA at the true professional level, kind of like as a guest driver for some of the amateur endurance racing teams and take a, a, a spin in their car, whether that’s Randy Popes in the 24 hours of, of lemons or other drivers coming down for the American Endurance Racing Series.

Have you thought about doing any of that if, uh, if you were offered a seat or do you have some prohibitions based on where you’re at now?

Ted Giovanis: To be honest with you, it’s [00:47:00] more time availability. More than anything else. I mean, if I think about it, that was one of the factors when I was racing IGT, I kind of ran out of time to do that and what we were doing, because what we started to do as we purchased new cars, we tested more, and as we test it more, that’s sort of where your time goes.

So it’s the question of what do you have the time? So I consider doing that maybe more for fun. But the reason those pros migrate down there, a lot of those guys, they don’t have rides in the other series. And so they need to make money somewhere so they have driver coaching done at the lower end.

Tom Newman: Gotcha.

Ted Giovanis: It’s a different kind of definition of a gentleman. Driver.

Tom Newman: Yeah.

Ted Giovanis: It’s a person with money that doesn’t really make their living at driving race cars.

Tom Newman: Right.

Crew Chief Eric: And I’m glad you brought that up, Ted, because there’s a lot of people that share the sentiment that there aren’t gentlemen drivers left anymore. You know, like the Graham Hills and you know, [00:48:00] those types of back in the day that to your point, they all had day jobs doing something else, but they had the fortitude and they also had the fortunes to be able to go and do racing in their, say, in their midlife versus these kids that are starting out four or five years old and go-karts and working their way up to the pro ranks by, you know, their 21st birthday kind of thing.

As someone who did start racing later in life compared to these other folks as as examples, what message do you hope your story brings to other people? What Can you share any advice.

Ted Giovanis: First of all, whatever kids are coming up, they gotta do this because they love it. They gotta really like to do it. What was it the, the old quote that Richard Petty said, they said, uh, Richard, what would you like them to say as your epitaph when you’re gone?

And he said, I would like him to say he was a man who had a job, who liked his job and did it well. Uh, when you think about it, he didn’t mention money, but money came because he did it. Well, the dynamic in racing now, it’s very competitive to [00:49:00] get in. When you’re driving, particularly in an endurance series, you need a driver with discipline.

And a young driver that wants to prove themselves may get a little too enthusiastic sometimes, which leads to crash damage, which who pays for that? So you need to be in control of yourself when you’re doing stuff in more ways than one. I’m pretty much a weird bird in that why do I race? The series, which is arguably probably the most competitive series in the United States, because I know when I’m driving, I’m gonna be close to laugh.

Why would I do that? And it’s because of the competitive pond I’m in. It drives me and, and I’m sure if he were here, he would tell you, we do better overall when I do better because I give him the car in a better position. That gets us back to the, the pairings. It’s like we [00:50:00] have to take the two mes and make them a we.

He knows he can’t do anything to set up that I can’t handle. It’s not demeaning to me what I just said. It’s just the talent. But when I can do well on average, then he’s in the top 10 all the time and that’s how we won the bronze and set simple. And while you’re in the heat of battle, you don’t recognize what you’re doing.

You sort of really don’t. And this year was like that. We didn’t do good at Daytona. And then we sort of did a little bit better at the Seing, and then we went for the next couple races. We were like not so good. And so we were behind in the points, but we won bronze. And it wasn’t until the end of the year, Hugh says, he said, well, you know, we won bronze, we were dominant.

I said, are you kidding? We, we won by 200 points. That’s like, like dominant. And he said, and then when you look at it, I read the Yearend review. We were terrible in Canada. We were terrible at [00:51:00] Watkins Glen. Watkins Glen was on me, Canada was on the crew. And then we started to come back and then we said, so then we go to VIR.

We won VIR for Broads. Before that we had won Road America, and then we went to Indy. We won Indy, and then we went to Road Atlanta and we won that. And I was like, oh yeah, we were pretty dominant. And so I didn’t realize it until after everything was over. And then like my experiences, I guess what the, the big takeaway is do it because you love it.

Don’t get disappointed because there’s gonna be disappointments along the way. Mine were just physical or crash or whatever. And you need to have a lot of discipline and set your brain such that you are willing to learn from anybody because the more you learn from the broader the base, the better off you’ll be.

The hard part for the younger guys now is getting in a car. Because while talent helps to get you recognized, ultimately you’re gonna need some money to get you in a seat [00:52:00] and get you in a right car, that kind of stuff. Now, there’s some scholarship programs now, but they’re not big money. They really aren’t.

So I think a lot of the kids coming up are gonna be family funded of some sort, but it’s sort of competitive going to the, like the GT four platform and the GT three. But let’s just talk about the GT four. We used to be able to build a a GS car for 150 grand. In order to buy a new car, you’re gotta buy pay three 50 or three 30.

So the price of entry has gone in just to sit at the table. You have to have so many chips. For the younger guys, you get into a situation where, what kind of an individual would I let drive my 350,000 car?

Crew Chief Eric: That’s fair.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Ted Giovanis: Three 50,000 cars consume brakes and rotors and gas and tires and all that kinda stuff.

We’re gonna be spending a thousand bucks a piece on tire texture. When they went to this homologated platform, the cost of racing went up. That’s ultimately will be a, a limitation for people, I think. I mean, how do you get [00:53:00] in? It’s like Tom’s saving money to buy a new car and now he finally gets up to 25 grand.

Now he finds out the price of the car is 40 and you’re like, God, I saved all this money to get to this point and now I can’t get the car because

Crew Chief Eric: you’re always chasing it, basically. Right.

Ted Giovanis: And so that’s part of the problem and that’s what happened with the economics of racing where the manufacturers.

Pay the series to be in the series. Michelin pays the series to be the tire VP Fuels pays the series be in the series. The tracks pay the series to come to the track. You get a pattern here.

Tom Newman: Oh yeah.

Ted Giovanis: And so because of that, with tires, it’s fine. We have to buy the Michelins and everything was fine. And then, oh, guess what?

They put tariffs on it because they’re all coming from France. Uh oh.

Tom Newman: Uh, speaking of which for me, I have one last question for you, Ted. Since you are [00:54:00] at the pinnacle of endurance racing in the United States, are there any future plans for Lamar? And can I carry your suitcase if the answer is yes.

Ted Giovanis: Well, I already considered Lamar and in 2020 he asked me that.

He said, have you ever thought about doing anything bigger and going to Lamont? All that kind of stuff. Despite my involvement, that was the first year. This was 19 to 20. That was the first year in January when we raced at Daytona, I decided to stay over for the 24th. I’ve never stayed for the 24th myself.

’cause we race on Friday. I usually leave and watch it on tv like the rest of you. I decided to stay over and it just so happened that we had passes to get into the Cadillac suite. We had raced with Chevy. Chevy didn’t have a suite but Caddy. They got us in the caddy. We were there looking at it and I was watching the 24 and I said, you know, I could go to La Mall, which is a two or three year run ’cause you gotta go to the road, to LA [00:55:00] Mall.

You have to, I’m gonna go to a attract that’s thousands of miles away that I could only run on so many times a year. Why don’t I do this? Why don’t I do this 24 hours in Daytona? And that led to me running the 24 in 21, 22, and 23. And the first two were in Porsche. The second, uh, last one was in Anas.

Probably not gonna go to LA Mall, certainly as a driver, but I probably am gonna run to 24 as a Daytona again.

Tom Newman: Very good.

Ted Giovanis: The most likely time is gonna be in 27. So that’s sort of what’s more in my racing future. If there’s a bigger thing with my other son in my world with cancer research, I’m gonna figure out how change, how we think about research, and that’s sort of my other objective over there.

But no Tom, so I’m not going to the mall. Probably be watching that on TV too with the rest of you guys.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Ted Giovanis: Daytona is interesting enough, let’s put it that way. The Advantage Daytona [00:56:00] has is it has lights. It’s not light alone, Lamont, it’s as we, a friend of mine used to say, it’s pretty dusky here. It’s like being at the back of BIR at night.

It’s pretty dark back there.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Ted Giovanis: But at Daytona it’s a different kind of exhilaration. You get similar talent pools ’cause you get people that won the Indy 500 there and Scott Dixon drives there. They’re in the prototypes, but you’re all on the track with them and everything’s sort of works out. The biggest problem with running the 24 is driver degradation.

And that’s why they try to keep the gentleman drivers more in the light than on the in the darkness. ’cause bad stuff happens in the dark and that’s what they say at the 24. If you make it through the night, you get a chance. When we ran the Aston in 23, uh, we had a left rear hub that broke. So that was sort of that, that kind of put a rip in our sail.

But they fixed it. I mean, we were back out, but that’s the only one. The other year we finished like [00:57:00] seventh or something like that. And GDD.

Crew Chief Eric: Ted, you talked about doing a little retrospective analysis over the 2025 season. Let’s take that a little bit further, and if you look back over your very long racing career, what’s your proudest moment and why does it stand out?

Ted Giovanis: Can I pick three?

Crew Chief Eric: Sure.

Ted Giovanis: Not in any particular order. The first one would be winning the IGT Championship, my favorite, because there are like multiple classes of Porsches. It’s basically an aggregation of points. So you could be running against me in a GT three car, I mean a real GT three Porsche, and it’s how much we all make points.

And so it was actually winning against three different classes. So whoever had the best, so that was sort of a big moment. The other one would probably be this year, winning the two bronzes this for the second year. That would, that’s sort of a big deal ’cause it’s becoming harder to do. But I would, I would almost say that the most [00:58:00] significant thing was at the 2024 in some banquet when we were getting the awards was something that two guys said to me from two different perspectives.

Uh, one was the series manager for our series and the other one was a guy that’s team owner of JDC. They both at the banquet said, we noticed you are getting faster because that’s what it’s about. It’s always about me versus me. And if I am able to achieve that while I’m getting older, that’s like a big deal.

It means I’m not losing it. I’m doing something right. I’m not doing everything right by no means, but it means that compared to me, I’m getting better. So that’s a kind of a good thing. And when that stops, that’s when I’ll do something different or recalibrate and drive slower cars or something.

Achievements a one thing, but what you really want to achieve is about improving yourself, and that’s what the young drivers need to [00:59:00] focus on. Prove yourself. That’s what I’ve always said. If I worry about fixing me, the me versus the other guys will take care of itself eventually.

Tom Newman: Advice.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, Ted, well, we’ve reached that part of the episode where I like to invite our guests to share any shout outs, promotions, thank yous, or anything else that we haven’t covered thus far.

Ted Giovanis: This is not meant to be salesy, but for finding out more about cancer research and what we’re doing, go to jktg foundation.org. It will tell you a lot of what we’re doing. Also, you can go and just search me ted gi honest.com. That’s my website, but that’ll tell you the other dimensions, including it’ll get you to the racing site, TGM racing, and it will tell you a lot of things that we’re doing and I think for a lot of people that are either in business or racing or whatever, follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Because when you find, see, my LinkedIn posts are all about helping people. The posts are taken [01:00:00] from things I’ve learned from racing, but it’s also in business and in life. And so I’m not selling anything. I’m trying to help people, trying to get through all this stuff that we call life, you know? And so it’s not gonna be smooth, and it’s not gonna be straightforward, but, but you can make it through it.

Keep the face. Keep going.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, folks that wraps up today’s conversation with Ted Giovannis. Ted’s story proves that racing isn’t only for the young, but for anyone with the drive and dedication to chase their passion from competing in endurance racing to leading groundbreaking efforts through the JKTG Foundation, Ted’s story is a reminder that it’s never too late to chase your dreams and make an impact.

If you’d like to learn more about Ted’s journey, his racing efforts, or his foundation’s important work in advancing medical research, be sure to visit jktg foundation.org and follow along with updates from JKTG Foundation on social media. And with that, Ted, I can’t thank you enough for sharing your evening with us here on Break Fix.

And I have to say, if it wasn’t said earlier, for [01:01:00] those listening at home, Ted is about to celebrate his 80th birthday proving that you’re never too old to get behind the wheel of a race car. And if that isn’t inspiring for all of us to get off the couch, get out of the garages and get on track, I don’t know what is.

So Ted, keep going. As long as you can keep going. This is awesome.

Ted Giovanis: I will, that’s, that’s what I plan on doing. So it’s uh, it’s really good. I don’t know what the future holds, but I’m going to be finding out, let’s put it that way. I’m gonna be doing, doing it to the end. All good. Thank you for, for having me on.

Thanks for being with you too. Thanks for hooking up with Tom again.

Tom Newman: Thanks, Ted. It was great seeing you as always.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on [01:02:00] article@gtmotorsports.org.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Meet Ted Giovanis
  • 01:28 First Steps Racing
  • 02:44 Climbing to Grand Am
  • 04:45 Lime Rock Paddock Tales
  • 07:20 From BMW to Porsche
  • 08:37 Business Win Fuels Racing
  • 10:10 GT4 Car Carousel
  • 12:50 Balance of Performance Explained
  • 18:13 Endurance Strategy and Driver Ratings
  • 25:07 Setup Secrets and Car Feel
  • 28:10 Crashes Comebacks and Grit
  • 31:35 Motivation To Improve
  • 32:04 F1 Style Cancer Modeling & Driving Research Philosophy
  • 36:04 Foundation Origin Story: Funding Researchers Not Overhead
  • 42:52 AI In Diagnostics And Biopsies
  • 46:20 Gentleman Driver Reality Check and Advice For Late Starters
  • 53:54 Daytona Over Le Mans
  • 57:03 Proudest Racing Moments
  • 59:11 Shoutouts And Final Wrap!

Learn More

If Ted’s story inspires you — and it should — you can explore more of his work here:

Bonus Content

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By 2006, Ted stepped into the professional ranks through Grand‑Am, the precursor to today’s IMSA. His early years were filled with the gritty realities of privateer racing — muddy paddocks, blown engines, and even a surreal moment when Paul Newman offered encouragement after a tough weekend.

As teammate Tom Newman recalled, the early days were far from glamorous: “We had about three pickup trucks and various trailers… Oh, how far he’s come.” Those formative years built the foundation for what TGM Racing would eventually become.

Photo courtesy Ted Giovannis, LinkedIn

From BMW to Porsche to Aston Martin: A Garage Full of Chapters

Ted’s racing résumé reads like a tour through modern GT machinery:

  • BMW 330s in Grand‑Am ST
  • Porsche GT4s in GS
  • Mercedes-AMG GT4s
  • Chevrolet Camaro GT4.Rs
  • Aston Martin Vantage GT4s, including the latest Evo chassis

Each transition was driven by strategy, performance, and the ever‑shifting world of Balance of Performance (BOP) — a topic Ted approaches with nuance. “You have to get your head around succeeding no matter what they do. Try as they will to slow you down, you’ve got to figure out a way to get better.”

His analytical mindset — sharpened by decades of work in health policy and research — gives him a unique perspective on the technical and strategic layers of endurance racing.


Racing, Research, and the Art of Modeling

One of the most fascinating aspects of Ted’s story is how his racing life and research life inform one another.

In 2006, Ted uncovered a major error in Medicare hospital payments, leading to a six‑year legal battle that ultimately reshaped his future. After the passing of his wife Jane in 2010, he founded the JKTG Foundation, dedicated to advancing cancer research — especially in metastatic breast cancer.

The connection between racing and research is surprisingly deep: “Racing is all about modeling and forecasting… and so is Cancer Research.”

Just as teams analyze data to optimize performance, Ted’s foundation funds researchers who model how cancer cells migrate, communicate, and respond to therapies. His goal is nothing short of transforming how early‑stage research is funded and understood.

 

Photo courtesy Ted Giovanis, LinkedIn

Lessons From the Track — and Life

Ted’s racing journey hasn’t been without hardship. A major crash in 2016 left him with a severed Achilles tendon, ending his season. Yet he returned to the cockpit just four and a half months later. “You don’t let the stuff slow you down… You do it because you want to succeed.” His philosophy is simple but powerful:

  • Focus on self‑improvement, not comparison
  • Embrace discipline and adaptability
  • Learn from anyone, at any age
  • Do it because you love it

These principles have guided him to multiple championships, including back‑to‑back IMSA Bronze Cup titles — achievements made even more meaningful by the acknowledgment from peers who noticed he was still getting faster.

Photo courtesy Ted Giovanis, LinkedIn

Racing Toward the Future

At 80 years old, Ted shows no signs of slowing down. While Le Mans may not be in the cards, another run at the Rolex 24 at Daytona is very much on the horizon. His dual mission continues:

  • On track: Compete at the highest level of American endurance racing
  • Off track: Drive cancer research in bold new directions

And through it all, he remains committed to sharing what he’s learned — not to sell anything, but to help others navigate the challenges of racing, business, and life.


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A Bigger, Bolder Concours: Copshaholm Launches a Full Weekend Festival

The Studebaker National Museum is turning up the excitement for 2026 by announcing that the eighth annual Concours d’Elegance at Copshaholm will expand into a dynamic, two-day celebration of automotive excellence and culture, beginning on Friday, July 10, 2026, with two new programmatic offerings and culminating with the Concours d’Elegance at Copshaholm on Saturday, July 11, 2026.

Set against the elegant historic grounds of Copshaholm, this year’s events invite enthusiasts, collectors, and families alike to experience more cars, more stories, and more ways to engage than ever before.

 

Two Days. One Unforgettable Experience!

New for 2026, the Concours weekend transforms into a multi-day automotive festival, offering something for every kind of enthusiast!

Photo courtesy Studebaker National Museum

NEW on Friday!

  • Concours d’Lemons South Bend — A crowd-favorite, this tongue-in-cheek event celebrates the weird, the flawed, and the un-best of the automotive world.
  • Automotive History Live: A Lecture Forum — Lectures from world-renowned automotive historians and speakers will delight automotive hobbyists and collectors alike.
  • Collectors Celebration Dinner — An elegant evening event bringing together collectors, exhibitors, and special guests for fine dining and conversation.
Photo by Matt Cashore; courtesy Studebaker National Museum

Concours d’Elegance at Copshaholm — The main event, this Concours showcases world-class automobiles in the historic gardens of the Copshaholm mansion. Throughout the day, guests will enjoy a lively atmosphere with local food trucks, a specialty ice cream vendor, and plenty of opportunities to relax, explore, and connect. The Concours will open to the public Saturday at 10:00 a.m. and conclude at 4:00 p.m., with the highly anticipated Pass-In-Review and Awards Ceremony beginning at 2:30 p.m.

A Centennial Celebration of Pontiac and Automotive Icons

The 2026 event will spotlight the 100th anniversary of Pontiac, featuring a dedicated class spanning the brand’s full legacy. Joining the celebration are the legendary Indiana makes of Auburn, Cord, and Duesenberg—names synonymous with innovation and style.

From the sculpted elegance of Coachbuilt Classics to the muscle and mystique of the Pontiac GTO, and the jet-age flair of Fabulous Fins, this year’s show field promises a visually stunning journey through automotive history. Additional classes include:

  • Motorcars of the Lincoln Highway (1913–1926)
  • European Economy
  • New Deal Motoring (1933–1942)
  • Vintage Motorcycles
  • Hail to the Chief: Studebaker Presidents
Photo by Matt Cashore; courtesy Studebaker National Museum

The Concours’ Chief Judge will be noted automotive historian Matt Short, with judging conducted in the French Traditional style. The Awards Ceremony will be narrated by renowned automotive author and expert, Bill Rothermel.

Awards will be presented across all classes, culminating in the prestigious Best of Show.

Photo by Matt Cashore; courtesy Studebaker National Museum

Tickets & Packages

A variety of ticketing options are available. Make sure to buy your tickets in advance to take advantage of special early bird discounts.

Leipert Motorsport Opens the Season With a Podium Surge at Paul Ricard

The start of the Lamborghini Super Trofeo Europe season at the Circuit Paul Ricard proved extremely satisfying for Leipert Motorsport. With two cars in the PRO class, the team was in strong form throughout the weekend and was rewarded with a podium finish and three further top-five results.

The potential was already evident in free practice: the #88 (Tuomaala/Salonen) established itself at the front of the field with consistently fast lap times, whilst the #44 (Thalin/Bengtsson) also demonstrated top pace with fourth place in the second practice session. The team also underlined its competitiveness in qualifying, securing solid starting positions. With sixth and tenth on the grid for the #88 and two ninth places for the #44, a good foundation had been laid for the races.

#44 Thalin (SWE) / Bengtsson (SWE) – Pro class; Photo by SCIARRA GIANLUCA FOTOSPEEDY courtesy Liepert Motorsports.

The #44 was in strong form throughout both races, confirming the positive progress made in practice and qualifying. In the first race, Thalin and Bengtsson put in a combative performance and narrowly missed out on the podium with fourth place. In the second race, the duo seamlessly built on their previous performance and secured another convincing result with fifth place. In doing so, they collected important points and underlined their potential for further top finishes as the season progresses.

#88 Tuomaala (FIN) / Salonen (FIN) – Pro class; Photo by SCIARRA GIANLUCA FOTOSPEEDY courtesy Liepert Motorsports

The #88 driver duo put in a strong and consistent performance in both races. Tuomaala and Salonen impressed right from the first race with a commanding display, securing a well-deserved podium finish in third place. With a consistently high pace and a flawless drive, they laid the foundations for a successful weekend. With another strong performance and fourth place in the second race, Tuomaala and Salonen narrowly missed out on the podium but also picked up important points for the championship.

“A successful start to the season. With the two new driver pairings, we once again have a very competitive line-up. The debut of three out of four drivers in the Super Trofeo was extremely satisfying. As always, the team did an excellent job, meaning we can celebrate an absolutely flawless and successful start to the season. We are therefore heading to Imola highly motivated, sitting third and fifth in the overall standings.” – said Managing Directors Marc Poos and Marcel Leipert.

The next round of the Lamborghini Super Trofeo Europe takes place in early May at Imola, where the team aims to build on the strong form shown at Paul Ricard.


About Liepert Motorsport

Leipert Motorsport was founded in 2002 and became one of Europe’s top GT-Teams in Sprint- and Endurance-Racing. Spreading its GT-Engagement even wider across the continental borders, this step is the logical consequence for the German team after being a front runner and championship winning team in multiple competitions.

1965: When Engines Roared and Rockets Soared

In the grand tapestry of history, few years shine as brightly as 1965 – a year when the roar of engines on the racetrack echoed the thunder of rockets piercing the skies. It was a time when motorsports and space exploration, seemingly worlds apart, converged in spirit, ambition, and innovation.

Guiding us through this pivotal moment is Dr. Mark D. Howell, motorsports scholar and cultural historian, who reminds us that 1965 was more than a calendar of milestones. It was a cultural touchstone, a year when technology, competition, and national purpose intertwined to redefine what humanity could achieve.

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Bio

Dr. Mark D. Howell has been involved with motorsports his entire life (thus far). He earned a BA in English in 1987 and an MA in American Studies in 1990 from Penn State, then earned a Ph.D. in American Culture Studies from Bowling Green State University in 1995. His dissertation evolved into From Moonshine to Madison Avenue: A Cultural History of the NASCAR Winston Cup Series, published in 1997. In 2014, Howell co-edited (with Dr. John Miller of Longwood University) Motorsports and American Culture: From Demolition Derbies to NASCAR.

Howell’s full-time job since August of 1997 has been as a Professor of Communications at Northwestern Michigan College in Traverse City. He spent two years before NMC as a Visiting Assistant Professor in the Department of American Thought and Language at Michigan State University. Mark has also taught advanced courses for Tiffin University, Oakland University, Ferris State University, and Davenport University. Dr. Howell is on the Board of Directors of the Society of Automotive Historians, and is editor of the SAH’s Automotive History Review.

Synopsis

This episode of the Logbook, our History of Motorsports Series, discusses the intertwining advancements in motorsports and space exploration in 1965. Dr. Mark D. Howell, a cultural historian, explores the parallels between pioneering figures in motorsports, like Richard Petty and Jim Clark, and space exploration heroes, such as Frank Borman and Jim Lovell. Dr. Howell draws connections between technological innovations and national ambitions that shaped historical milestones in both fields. The narrative highlights Formula One’s 75th anniversary, NASA’s Project Gemini, and competitive advancements in NASCAR, Indy 500, and land speed records at Bonneville Salt Flats. Additionally, the influence of societal and cultural memory in shaping historical understanding is examined. The episode underscores how the accomplishments of 1965 have continued to impact racing, space exploration, and collective cultural identity.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer family.

On this episode of the Logbook, we stepped back into 1965 a year when engines roared rocket soared, and history was written across two frontiers, motorsports, and space exploration. It was the time of bold technologies, ambitious plans, and unforgettable achievements on the racetrack. Legends like Richard Petty, Jim Clark and Dan Gurney redefined competition in orbit and beyond.

Pioneers, such as Frank Borman, Jim Lovell, and Ed White carried humanities aspirations to the stars. Together, their innovation set benchmarks that continue to shape both racing and exploration six decades later. Guiding us through this pivotal year is Dr. Mark D. Howell, a lifelong motorsports scholar and cultural historian with a PhD in American Culture Studies and a career spanning decades [00:01:00] of teaching, writing, and leadership in the Society of Automotive Historians.

Dr. Howell brings unmatched insight into how 1965 became a turning point in both speed and space. His work connects the roar of engines to the silence of space, showing how one extraordinary year continues to influence the way we race, explore, and dream. Join us as we uncover the sociocultural significance of 1965 a year that proved innovation, knows no boundaries, whether on the track or among the stars.

Thank you. It’s good to be here. I’m working on a book manuscript right now that is juxtaposing, as Kip was saying, kind of the connection between motor sports and space exploration because there is a connection and as a kid who grew up wanting to both be a race car driver and an astronaut, and couldn’t quite determine which of the two was going to win.

To my surprise, I noticed as I got older and became a cultural historian and started in academia that there was a connection between the two. So today this is an ongoing part of that research, [00:02:00] and the reason I selected 1965 in part is because this year is significant. I mean, if you think about it, this is the 75th anniversary of what we know as Formula One.

It’s the 75th anniversary of the Wood Brothers getting into racing. So you’ve got these different kinds of anniversaries that kind of pop up around this year and 60 years ago, it seemed like there was a lot going on both in space exploration and motor sports, things that were going on that ended up setting the course for the future of both occupations and both endeavors.

So that’s where this comes from. The year 1965 stands out as a turning point in American technological and cultural history in both space exploration and in motor sports. Two fields that are often seen as unrelated, but they are connected. You had engineers, astronauts, drivers, and institutions that were simultaneously.

Pushing the boundaries of speed, endurance, and human capability. It was a moment when advances in [00:03:00] materials design and engineering converged with national ambition. It was also the year I was born and I haven’t changed much. I still lean forward and I’m still kind of round in the face. So that’s me.

While these events meant nothing to me at the time, they have become meaningful through what was recorded, remembered, and retold. Looking back across six decades, I propose we understand 1965, not merely as a collection of milestones, but as a year whose significance is shaped by collective memory using the frameworks of societal logics and cultural identity.

I submit that the narrative constructed around 1965 stories of innovation. Competition and national purpose continue to shape how we understand the relationship between technology and culture when examined through this lens, 1965 becomes more than a year of achievements. It becomes a cultural [00:04:00] touchstone that reveals how societies make meaning from historic, competitive, and technological triumphs.

As 1965 began, the United States was in the midst of the space race running second to the Soviet Union in placing satellites and animals in low Earth orbit. America was also chasing the technological and ideological target set by President John F. Kennedy in 1961. Of landing a man on the moon. By the end of the decade, NASA was caught off guard.

When on April 12th, 1961, Yuri Guerin made a 108 minute flight aboard his VO stock won spacecraft scoring. Two monumental firsts for the Soviet Union. The first human in space and the first human to orbit the earth. In 1963, Russia’s Valentina Ter Cova made 48 orbits over three days to become the first woman in space.

And as a point of comparison, the [00:05:00] first American woman in space was Sally Ride. 20 years later, in June of 1983, in 1965, project Gemini tightened the space race by demonstrating the versatility and technology needed to reach the moon, not that Gemini got off to a rousing start. An article in the Bulletin of the Atomic scientists highlighted a rift between the US military and nasa.

Because the agency, according to some people, was more interested in landing on the moon than developing America’s military capability in space. Some believed, and this was precisely the case, this is what the Soviet Union was doing with their vehicles. So the rift was actually pretty well meaning. We weren’t spying like the Soviet Union was using their technology to do.

Now, that said, astronauts had been photographing the earth since. John Glenn took a store-bought Minolta point and shoot camera into orbit on [00:06:00] Friendship seven In 1962, while American Space flight was seen as more scientific than spying, there were some in the federal government who thought manned missions were missed opportunities to observe America’s enemies.

From afar, the United States Air Force was in fact working with McDonald Aircraft, adapting Gemini hardware to develop a manned orbital laboratory that would conduct essential research as long as that essential research meant spying on other countries. The project stalled in 1966 as satellite technology was improving and funds were needed to fund the war in Vietnam.

All the while the Soviet Union fully believed it was capable of beating NASA to the cratered lunar finish line. The Soviets upped the lunar ante in March with Alexi Land’s Surprise 13 minute extra vehicular activity. A move that forced NASA to fast track an [00:07:00] American response. The first American EVA was scheduled for Gemini five later in the year, but Russia’s awkward, yet successful, and I say awkward because when Leon F got out in the vacuum of space, his pressure suit inflated, and for a while they weren’t sure how to deflate it enough to get ’em back through the hatch.

Period of time when they thought they would just have to cut him loose because he was essentially the Michelin man in space and they had to figure out a way to get him back. They did. But anyway, his early spacewalk led the agency to assign America’s first EVA to Gemini for only the second man flight of the program.

Astronaut Edward White was assigned to conduct the spacewalk in early June. On the second orbit of Gemini Four’s 66 orbit flight Commander James McDivitt assisted white in opening his hatch, allowing white to float free of his spacecraft, tethered by a 15 foot umbilical cord that provided communications and [00:08:00] life support.

White spent 23 minutes in space taking photographs and creating optics that unlike Leonardo’s, EVA would promote Gemini Four’s accomplishment throughout the world. More than a technical demonstration, ed White’s EVA quickly became a cultural moment. The image of an American astronaut floating freely against the blackness of space, tethered only by a lifeline offered the nation a powerful symbol.

At a moment when Cold War anxieties were high, this is the first mission where astronauts wore the American flag on their spacesuits, and that was actually at the bequest of McDivitt and white. They kind of knew that this was going to be a big moment for the United States, and so they went ahead and said, Hey, can you put the American flag on our space suits?

NASA didn’t stay with that, but if you look at the majority of space suits from this point on, you see an American flag, Gemini five flown in August by Gordon Cooper and Charles Pete Conrad, who were, by the way. [00:09:00] Recognized outside the space program as both being competitive. Racers in their own right Cooper raced sports cars and hydroplane boats.

Pete Conrad raced sports cars with the SCCA and he actually raced at Watkins Glen at least one time back in the early seventies. But their mission, Gemini five was to be the first spacecraft to use fuel cells instead of batteries as a source of internal power. Cooper and Conrad described their mission as eight days in a garbage can.

Since their sole purpose was to live in Earth orbit and demonstrate that fuel cells could generate enough energy for a minimum duration lunar mission, they also had the EVA. Taken away from them. So they were kind of frustrated at that. They would also test a new radar technology that enabled vehicles to rendezvous in orbit with great precision, which was another critical aspect of going to the Moon.

Cooper and Conrad being racers in their own right, [00:10:00] commented on how loud and fast the Titan two launch vehicle was. Which was understandable given that Gemini crews went into space atop and ICBM designed to carry nuclear weapons Astronauts compared the Titan two to a sports car, maybe a Corvette Stingray.

That’s what they were driving. Given its quick and steady acceleration, which interestingly enough led to a sharp change in trajectory at a particular altitude that aimed the vehicle toward Russia. So what the astronauts had to learn to do was to counter that change in trajectory because that wasn’t their intent.

At least in the Gemini program. Gemini five ultimately earned the United States a new flight duration record of 7.96 days in orbit exceeding cosmina. Valerie Bukowski’s record by 72 hours. The flight duration record of Gemini five was shattered four months later in December by Jim Lovell and Frank Borman on Gemini seven when they spent [00:11:00] 13.77 days in orbit.

This mission was the most ambitious of 1965 and probably of the entire Gemini. Program. It included a pretty big to-do list. The astronauts were gonna spend two weeks in space. They were gonna try new extra lightweight space suits, which you can see here. Their helmets are like, almost like big bags.

They’re wearing over their heads and executing a controlled reentry near their recovery location. Borman and Lovell were also tasked, and this is a direct quote from NASA three Scientific. Four technical, four spacecraft, and eight medical experiments. The medical experiments involved Frank Borman going into space with electrodes stuck in his skull under his helmet to get physiological data on their condition.

Gemini seven became part of an unplanned exercise when Gemini six, an unmanned rendezvous target vehicle. Was lost after liftoff, which delayed the launch of Gemini six A, which was going [00:12:00] to meet up with the target vehicle, Gemini six A, which was going to carry astronauts Tom Stafford and Wally Shirah.

NASA planners suggested that Gemini seven liftoff before Gemini six A, so the two vehicles could attempt a manned rendezvous, which would be necessary for a lunar mission. In December, 1965, NASA achieved the incredible two Gemini spacecraft, one piloted by indie team car owner Wally Shara. He was a silent partner with AJ Foyt actually in 1967.

Their car finished second at Indianapolis with Joe Leonard behind the wheel. But Wally Shara got the spacecraft together. They did kind of a side drafting sort of a thing. They got to within three feet to actually, at one point they got to within one foot of each other. At 17,500 miles an hour for five and a half hours at an altitude of 160 nautical miles, the astronauts could see each other.

They could read [00:13:00] signs held up to windows, and they were able to visually inspect the condition of both spacecraft. It was a technological achievement that gave 1965, added historical significance just as NASA rushed to match Soviet achievements through technical improvisation. Motorsports organizations in 1965 faced parallel pressures, organizational, cultural, and technological that shaped their own collective narratives.

Take nascar for example. By 1965, American automakers were focused on engine development and horsepower. Nascar, on the other hand, stuck to its 1949 notion of showroom stock, stock cars, and the slogan, win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Another factor was the sanctioning body’s homologation rules requiring manufacturers to produce a specific number of high powered creations for commercial sale.

Many of these specialty engines like the 4 26 Hemi, which you see here, Ford’s 4 [00:14:00] 27 camera and GM’s 4 27 mark two. Were simply not available in showrooms. In October of 1964, NASCAR founder Bill France announced that in 1965, all engines used in competition had to meet strict guidelines limiting their displacement.

Among other restrictive measures meant to govern on track performance. While manufacturers wanted to park their big engines in Victory Lane, big Bill France wanted stock cars to carry stock motors available to consumers. During the 1964 NASCAR season, Chrysler and Ford repeatedly criticized each other’s creative engineering efforts while addressing NASCAR rule changes meant to level the high banked playing field.

It was Chrysler’s 4 26 Hemi that received the most public attention. Hemispherical combustion chambers were nothing new in 1964 and 1965. They were actually developed by Chrysler [00:15:00] for the P 47 Thunderbolt. In World War ii, but World War II ended before the design could be put into production. This technology led to the development of the 4 26 Hemi, which big Bill France banned from competition in late 1964.

Chrysler’s Hemi allowed Richard Petty to dominate the Grand National Division earlier in 1964, winning his first Daytona 500 and his first grand National title with nine victories and 43 top tens. For 61 starts in a Plymouth Belvedere, powered by the Now Outlawed in 1965 by NASCAR 4 26 Hemi Engine. As such, the Chrysler Corporation took extreme measures after Chrysler announced it would boycott the 1965 NASCAR season.

Richard Petty went racing with the National Hot Rod Association driving a petty enterprises prepared Hemi powered Plymouth Barracuda, given Petty’s national fame and competitive [00:16:00] dominance. In 1964, he was usually matched against a full-time drag racer. He ran against such NHRA regulars as. Don Nicholson and Ronnie Sox, and they were pretty much more like celebrity shootouts than elimination heats that you would see in competition.

Petty’s 1965 drag racing sabbatical was marred tragically in late February. When a component in the left front of his Plymouth failed during a race at Southeastern International Dragway near Dallas, Georgia, the car careened through a chain link fence. Went into the crowd, injured seven spectators, and took the life of 6-year-old Wayne Edward die Petty enterprises.

Then built a second Hemi powered Barracuda, which carried Richard to an NHRA Spring Nationals win at Bristol Motor Speedway in 1965. Chrysler’s Boycott of the 1965 NASCAR grand national season worked to the Ford [00:17:00] Motor Company’s advantage. Illinois native Fred Lorenzen led 25 of 133 laps to win the rain, shortened Daytona 500 in a top 11 sweep by Ford products.

Lorenzen also won both grand National races at Charlotte in 1965, the day of my birth. By the way, was well timed and conveniently sandwiched between Fred Lorenzen win at Martinsville on 4 25, April 25th. That’s the day before I was born, and then Tiny Lund drove a Ford to victory at Columbia. South Carolina on April 28th, and in the middle was me.

Chrysler’s. NASCAR boycott ended in late July of 1965 when the company met those homologation guidelines. Chrysler’s first 1965 Grand National win came when Richard Petty won at Nashville in a 1965 Plymouth. The damage, however, had already been done. [00:18:00] Ned Jarrett won the 1965 Grand National Championship with 13 wins in 54 starts in a Ford while Fred Lorenzen ended the year 13th in points with four wins in only 17 starts.

Ford easily won the 1965 manufacturers championship with 50 victories in 55 races. One of the 50 wins, interestingly enough, was by Curtis Turner, who returned from his four year NASCAR induced suspension. He was suspended by Bill France for trying to bring organized labor, bring the Teamsters into organized nascar, NASCAR drivers at least.

And so he returned from his sabbatical, shall we say. To win the very first grand national race held at Rockingham Speedway, and that was, uh, on October 31st in 1965. No discussion about the Ford Motor Company and 1965 would be complete without mention of that year’s [00:19:00] Indianapolis 500. The 1965 Indy 500 was a perfect storm as Scotsman Jim Clark dominated the race in his Lotus 38, a streamlined, lightweight Monaco chassis.

Designed by Colin Chapman, who was an aviation engineer at one point and Len Terry. The car was engineered with an offset suspension and powered by a mid mounted 4.2 liter double overhead cam Ford V eight. The Lotus 38 was based on the Lotus 29 that finished second at Indy with Jim Clark in 1963 and the Lotus 34 that finished 17th at Indy with Dan Gurney in 1964, Jim Clark and his Lotus 38 averaged 150.686 miles an hour to win at the Brickyard.

Breaking the 150 mile an hour barrier, as well as a J FO’s 1964 record of 1 47 0.35 in the final Indy [00:20:00] 500 won by a front engine car. By the way, 64 was the last front engine win. Only six front engine cars were on the grid in 1965, making it the first Indianapolis 500 to feature mostly rear engine.

Entrance teams at Indianapolis in 1965 face new rules in response to the tragic events of 1964. If you remember, that’s when Dave McDonald and Eddie Sacks died in that fiery wreck right near the start of the race. These new rules included a new minimum weight restriction and new guidelines for fuel management guidelines that required cars to have a 75 gallon onboard capacity fuel tanks with rubber bladders.

And no crossover tubes located in front of the driver teams at India in 1965 were encouraged to run methanol, which made more horsepower even though gasoline provided better mileage. That said, teams were now required by the roll to pit at least [00:21:00] twice and to connect to their newly required. Another new rule, gravity fed fueling rigs, which eliminated any advantage to be had by running gasoline.

The 1965 Indy 500 featured one of the largest and most impressive rookie classes in the events history. A roster that included Mario Andretti, Gordon Johncock, Joe Leonard, and Al Unser. The front row was comprised of a J Foyt who qualified with a new track record. Jim Clark was second and Dan Gurney on the outside of row one.

Andretti was the fastest rookie starting fourth on the grid. When it comes to the 1965 Indy 500 and the influence of collective memory, the story of the Wood Brothers comes to mind. Popular meaning comes from our memories of the famous NASCAR pit crew servicing Jim Clark’s Lotus and Route to Victory at the Brickyard.

Despite such memories. Fact over fiction suggests the wood [00:22:00] brothers were more of a Ford public relations stunt than a competitive necessity. Teams at Indy knew the wood brothers and their reputation in nascar, yet the crew was new to USAC competition. So any advantage they brought. To Team Lotus was unproven.

Both time and history have suggested that the Wood brothers were not as much of a secret weapon, quote unquote. As our recollection of the 1965 Indy 500 leads us to believe the Wood Brothers turned 41.9 total seconds on Pit Road into team Lotus’s dominating win. But the truth is. The Lotus 30 eights potent blend of aerodynamics, chassis design, and horsepower when put in the hands of an incredibly talented driver, enabled Ford to win.

The Wood Brothers notable contribution at Indianapolis, which led to the Venturi tube that the Wood Brothers added to the gravity Fed fuel rig that was now required. The [00:23:00] idea that Venturi tube made the fuel flow smoother and faster. But anyway, after getting through USAC inspection. Leonard Wood then devoted several hours to polishing and fitting, making sure all the connections and nozzles worked right to ensure maximum efficiency come race day.

Jim Clark had to stop precisely in his box to maximize his refueling strategy. Leonard Wood quoted Clark as saying, you tell me where to stop and I’ll stop. Wood showed Clark the exact location the crew needed and the world driving champion. According to wood, squatted the Lotus 38 down on the exact spot every time.

Stops were simpler for the wood brothers because Clark went the entire 500 miles on a single set of tires. The first stop took only 17 seconds, which is an amazing time given that pit stops during the era. Typically ran about a minute or so. Colin Chapman was taken aback by the efficiency of the wood brothers after their first record [00:24:00] breaking stop.

Chapman apparently looked over at Glen Wood and asked, I say, did you fill it up? Wood assured him the car was full, and Chapman simply turned away and said, jolly good. In a way, they went. Even the wood brothers themselves downplayed the significance of their role at Indianapolis in 1965, giving credit not only to Team Lotus and Jim Clark, but to the powerful 4.2 liter double overhead cam Ford motor that took them to Victory Lane.

As Leonard Woods said many years later, it was their engine, so it was all about Ford and what they brought. The Ford Motor Company wanted to gain a stronghold in European style endurance racing, so they turned to racer. Turned innovator. Carol Shelby for guidance. Not only did Shelby oversee production of the 4 27 Cobra in 1965, finding a practical use for the high performance motor, but he also assumed control of the company’s GT 40 [00:25:00] program that it struggled mightily at LA Mall in 1964.

At Daytona in February, 1965, Carol Shelby brought a roster of competitive cars and drivers to open the FIA World Sports Car Championship season. Shelby went to Florida with four Cobra Daytona coops and a pair of brand new GT forties. When the checkered flag fell, Ken Miles and Lloyd Ruby went to Victory Lane earning Ford’s GT program.

Its First World Sports Car Championship win. Taking first place with a five lap advantage and setting the stage for the GT Forty’s future success. All in all, Shelby entries that day took five of the top six finishing positions, the global presence of Shelby and his GT forties, and his Cobra Daytona coops turned forward from a pretender into a contender.

While Daytona Coops performed well in World Sports Car Competition and won the CCAs United States GT [00:26:00] title in 1964, the cars did even better in 1965, winning not only at Daytona, but also at Sebring Monza, the Berg Ring and Ream. To take the International Championship for GT manufacturers in November of 1965, Carol Shelby received a call from Goodyear with an offer.

The company had four days available to run at the Bonneville Salt Flats, but no viable car. The forecast for weather wasn’t good and the clock was ticking. Art Arfons was preparing to make a record attempt using Firestone Tires, and the rules at Bonneville dictated that cars not ready to run, had to yield to other competitors.

Shelby sent a Daytona Coop that competed at Lima in June to the Salt Flats with a new motor. New Goodyear tires and the same rear axle ratio used in France. The Shelby entry traveled the 700 miles from California to [00:27:00] Utah overnight, and upon getting there, the car wound up setting 25 FIA records. One of the records was when Bobby Tero and Craig Breedlove teamed up to run 1,931 miles on the 12 mile Bonneville loop, and they reached an average speed of 150 miles an hour.

No review of motor sports during 1965 would be complete without the Bonneville salt flats. The dry lake bed in Utah was a hemi friendly environment, uh, where the big engine was enthusiastically welcomed in November, California and Bob Summers set a world land speed record for wheel driven vehicles achieving a two pass average of 4 0 9 0.277 in his revolutionary golden rod car measuring 32 feet long by 48 inches wide.

Its frontal area was calculated to be 8.53 square feet with a drag coefficient of [00:28:00] 0.1165 making the vehicle literally more aerodynamic than a bullet. Goldenrod was designed by Bill Summers. Bob’s brother using four Hemi Motors borrowed from Chrysler. The hemis ran in line two-faced front, two-faced rear with a five speed truck transmission mounted at each end.

The entire powertrain linked by custom built drive shafts. Bill and Bob Summers handcrafted the car’s entire chassis roll cage and body in a converted vegetable stand in Ontario, California, creating a vehicle that set a land speed record that stood until 2010. In addition to the record, Craig Breedlove.

Set in Carol Shelby’s Daytona Coop, he and Art Aons, they took turns breaking speed barriers in their renowned battle of the jet cars. The rivalry between breed love and Aons actually began in late 1964 when breed love’s [00:29:00] Spirit of America reached 526.28 miles an hour before his parachute failed and the car was wrecked.

Art Aons set a new record about a year later in his green monster, only to lose it to Breedlove the following week. The one upsmanship came to a head when Breedlove hit 5 55 0.485 on November 2nd, only to be outrun by Aons on November 7th at 5 76 0.55. Three breed love made yet another. Record attempt on November 15th in his Spirit of America, Sonic One, and this time, the third time was the charm as Breedlove’s fighter jet shaped race car broke the 600 mile an hour barrier.

He hit 600.601 miles an hour, and Craig Breedlove was instantly labeled by the media as America’s quote. Astronaut on Wheels Breed Loves 1965. Records stood until Gary Gli ran [00:30:00] 6 22 in October of 1970. 1965 was populated with an incredible assortment of motorsports talent. Mario Andretti won the 1965 USAC National Championship, taking the title by 610 points over a j Foyt in 1965.

Andretti drove Roadsters. Rear engine cars, dirt cars, and was named Rookie of the Year at the Indianapolis 500. An example of the young driver’s tenacity at the Trenton one 50 in July, Andretti wrecked his Dean Van Lines entry and failed to qualify for the race. Even after missing Trenton and including back-to-back DNFs at Milwaukee and Decoin, Mario Andretti took the 1965 U Sac title with one win.

12 top fives, 13 top tens and three poll positions across the Atlantic. A young Scotsman named Jackie Stewart Advanced from Formula two to Formula [00:31:00] One, making his first championship start in South Africa and finishing sixth for BRM. His first World Championship victory came in the Italian Grand Prix at Manza, where he finished ahead of his teammate Graham Hill.

Stewart’s rookie season in 1965 was an impressive one as he scored one win three seconds, a third, a fifth, and a sixth performances that put him third for the World Drivers Championship that year behind Jim Clark. And Graham Hill. No review of 1965 would be complete without considering the historic accomplishments of a sheep farmer from Fife named Jim Clark.

Jim Clark’s modesty was only overshadowed by his immense driving talent. His racing career began in 1958 with road rallies and hill climbs eventually leading to Formula two, and then a quick promotion to Formula One partway through the 1960 season. Jim Clark won seven F1 races in 1963 to claim his first world [00:32:00] driving title.

In addition to finishing second at Indianapolis. At India, 1964, Jim Clark started from the pole but finished 24th. The we, Scott also came parly close to winning another world driving championship that same year. He won the most races in 1964, but struggled with late season engine problems and finished second behind John Certes.

It was in 1965 that Jim Clark experienced a season that remains 60 years later. Unmatched Clark not only won the Indy 500, but also his second world driving championship with five consecutive victories. Jim Clark spent the 1965 Formula One. Off season racing against other F1 and regional drivers to win the Tasman series in Australia and New Zealand taking the title with one race to go on the schedule.

Clark also won the British and the French Formula Two championships in 1965, making him [00:33:00] the first and so far the only driver to win multiple championships in a single year. To his legendary credit, Jim Clark still holds the Formula One record for the most Grand Slams with eight, his closest competition being Max Tappin and Louis Hamilton who were tied with six.

It is highly unlikely we will ever see another driver who exceeds the success that Jim Clark experienced in 1965. Now a conceptual foundation that lies beneath the historically significant events of 1965 can help us understand the many levels of meaning we commonly apply to such narratives from our past as Aca o Mossoff, and Steele suggest in their 2016 article in the Academy of Management Review.

Quote, societal logic serve as the organizing principles for distinct domains of social activity. The authors theorize that there are at least seven societal logics, [00:34:00] including the family, religion, the state, the market professions, community. And the corporation. Now, they continued to explain their idea, and it’s one that’s actually rooted in organizational studies.

They said, and this is a quote, collective memory making is not just a cognitive process, but a social one generated through communication and dynamic patterns of interaction and stored in material artifacts and collective consciousness. Each of these societal logics related to motor sports and space exploration, especially with regard to the events of 1965.

That year highlighted our shared understanding of family via the Petties, the woods, and the summers, while showcasing the almost religious nature of an event like the Indianapolis 500. The man space program in 1965 identified the state as in the United States through our acknowledgement of professions like astronauts and engineers as managed by the [00:35:00] corporation as in like, say nasa.

For every player in the market, whether it be Ford or Firestone or Goodyear, there is a community of fans, competitors that supports their cause. What makes this history relevant to historians is the fact that societal logics are established through collective memory. Collective memory creates resources we use to better understand and navigate societal logics, which in turn, shape cultural identity and institutional legitimacy.

Through the lens of collective memory, 1965 emerges not just as a year of remarkable accomplishments, but as a moment when Americans organized their understanding of technology, identity and ambition. The stories that endure from Ed White. Floating Above the earth to Jim Clark dominating Indianapolis to the summers brothers.

Engineering Marvels at Bonneville reflect the interplay of societal logics that shape our [00:36:00] shared narratives. What we remember of 1965 reveals how technological power becomes cultural power, rockets, engines, chassis, and speed records gain, meaning only when filtered through the stories we tell and retell stories that craft identities, legitimize institutions, and shape our understanding of history.

Over time, these events have been distilled not simply into facts, but into symbols that express national purpose, corporate competition, and human ambition. I was only an infant in 1965, unaware of the significance unfolding around me. Yet the records, the recollections, and the narratives passed down through family, community, and institutions have shaped my understanding of that year.

History gains meaning because we give it and ourselves, meaning the human experience, whether on a racetrack in orbit, or in everyday life, becomes more powerful when [00:37:00] it is shared. And with that, I thank you for your time and your attention.

That was terrific. Mark questions? I think Eric has a question. Alright, mark. Ben writes, this is a fascinating talk. You mentioned the collective memories influence on how we recall the 1965 Indy 500. Do you think there’s similar influence on our memory of the space race? It’s such a great story of triumph over adversity.

I wonder how much is clouded by our desire for everything to fit into that narrative? That’s a great question because that’s something that I’m wrestling with in this manuscript. When the space race started. We, pardon my language, sucked. The United States couldn’t do anything right. The Soviets put Sputnik into space, into orbit.

We tried to counter with putting our own satellites in space. Most of them blew up on the launchpad to the point where the national media started to wonder if maybe we were doing the wrong thing in the wrong sort of prioritization [00:38:00] that we should be thinking about. Other ways to put our technology because we just couldn’t get a satellite in orbit.

It took a couple years. We missed out on the first man in space. Gagarin went up first. He went up and orbited went up for 108 minutes and orbited the earth. We scrambled. About three weeks later, Alan Shepherd went up and his time in space. Was five minutes. If you remember Shepherd’s flight. It was a suborbital hop.

He went up and then came down. The whole flight lasted 15 minutes from lift off to splash down. It’s a swing and a miss. The Russians are still ahead. Second flight, Gus Grissom, same thing up down in his case. The hatch blows off the spacecraft while it’s in the ocean. Fills with water, spacecraft sinks. He gets accused of making a mistake and it’s a whole big kerfluffle.

Again, swinging a Ms. John Glenn goes up, okay, we’re gonna orbit the earth. John Glenn goes up, gets the go ahead for seven orbits on orbit. Number two, there’s a problem with, they think the heat shield, meaning that they’re gonna have to stop the mission [00:39:00] quickly instead of doing seven orbits. They’ve got what they think is a defective spacecraft, they cut it down to three and they bring ’em back.

So right off the bat, I mean, we were struggling and it seemed like everything we did, the Russians could do a little, is that whole thing, you know, whatever I could do, you could do better. It was really the space race was not really going our way at first. But that said, we immortalized Alan Shepherd. We immortalized John Glenn.

I didn’t talk about 1966. That’s a whole nother speech, but in 1966, Neil Armstrong and Dave Scott on Gemini eight Dock with one of those Gina Target vehicles. They dock as soon as they get there. It’s about half hour after they’re docked one of the thrusters on the Gemini spacecraft. It’s a steering rocket, activates short circuits and puts the thing into a spin to the point where they almost lose consciousness.

It’s only after they get rid of the Gina. Well, that actually makes it worse. They get rid of the Gina and the Gemini spun even faster, and they had to cut that mission short because otherwise they would’ve passed [00:40:00] out and probably died. So right off the bat, we are compartmentalizing a lot of these events and making them collective memory and making them significant history.

When if you match what we did versus what the Soviets did, we weren’t that great, but we got better. And finally we won the space race, Gemini seven. That puts us ahead, you know, we could do things that nobody else could do. And then in December of 68, Apollo eight goes around the moon, orbits the moon, and that’s the end of the space race.

We got to the moon first. We didn’t land first, but it was a matter of semantics. Who could get there first? And actually the Russians were in the process of sending a cosmonaut to the moon to orbit. So NASA hurried up and scrambled and said, okay, we’re gonna change the whole flight routine here. We’re gonna move this flight up, move this crew back.

Apollo eight went with an untested Saturn five rocket. No human had ever ridden on a Saturn five rocket, the biggest, most powerful vehicle ever built. But Frank Borman, Jim [00:41:00] Lovell and Bill Anders got on top of the thing and. Went into space because they had to do it. We had to beat the Soviet Union. So I hope that answers Ben’s question.

It’s a whole nother tangent there. Sorry. Hey, mark. Yes, mark A. Okay there. You’re over there. Good to see you. So I think actually my question is maybe even a development on that. So in talking about the societal logics, these collective memories that play together, I’m sort of a historian. I work at a museum.

I interpret objects. I interpret material culture from history, and yes, I can observe the. Collective memory and societal logics and just put the objects in a place that people understand because hey, it plays into the story you already have as a culture. But actually, how much of my job is bursting that bubble?

So for example, most people come in, look at our GT forties and think Ford versus Ferrari. How much is my job talking about Roy? And Don Frey, how much of it is actually saying it’s not just one guy in a cowboy hat. It was a huge organization, the equivalent of billions dollars today. That’s a [00:42:00] great point.

You know, one thing that doesn’t play into this is popular culture and that adds a whole new wrinkle to it because so much of our collective memory is shaped by not historical fact. You know, we kind of know history a little bit, but we know movies. TV shows books, and that’s what we often use as sort of the guidepost for artifacts and personalities and things like.

Yeah, I mean, Ford versus Ferrari totally changed our narrative of the GT 40 program because it was a hit movie. And it was, it was a fun movie. People went to see it. I remember when the movie came out, the first weekend it came out, I came back to my office. People started coming to my office to say, Hey, did you see forward versus Ferrari?

You must have seen Ford versus Ferrari. I saw Ford versus Ferrari. Now tell me all about it. Was that real? You tell me. What did you think was real? What did you get from that? That was real? Because popular culture often takes it upon itself to sort of recreate fact, you know, this [00:43:00] idea of based on a true story, all these movies that are based on a true story.

Well, how do you define that? Is it a true biographical depiction or is. 5% based on fact and artifacts work that way. You know, especially cars, race cars are amazing museum exhibits because when you get a race car, as anyone in this room could attest, what car are you getting? Race cars are in constant states of change.

So when somebody comes up and says. Here’s a car that won such and such an event on this day. It’s like, what’s the provenance on that? If I’m the archivist or the historian who’s gonna bring that car into a collection? I wanna know, are those the same shocks? Are they the same brakes? Are they the same tires?

What has happened to that car from that victory? To this point when it’s being donated, you know, and I think NASCAR kind of got the jump on that. The whole Daytona USA thing, you know, the car wins the Daytona 500. It’s immediately impounded, even with the confetti and all the stuff on it. The next morning it goes into Daytona USA, and it [00:44:00] stays there for a year, and it’s what you run is what you brung to the museum.

So in that case, there’s a sense of authenticity. And that’s kind of like real history. So much of this other stuff, we just play fast and loose with it and we make it what we want it to be, and that’s what a lot of these societal logics do. We can kind of compartmentalize and subdivide what we know and what we experience into these neat packages that we can then share.

They help us understand these complex events. They also help us understand ourselves and where we fit in. This may be a topic for another discussion, but uh, I was just thinking about the amazing influence that the Space Age had on automotive styling and even. Industrial products like toasters and things.

Yeah. I mean, if the whole Fins concept, as soon as the jet age rolls around, you start seeing that sort of absorbed by the auto industry and you start to see concept cars that look more and more like aircraft and the, yeah, the space age was the same way. Anybody drink Tang? When they were a kid, [00:45:00] you know, there’s like no history at all that astronauts drank Tang, but that’s how they marketed that for years it was, this is the drink of the astronauts.

The astronauts who did drink it just as like a sample kind of thing, didn’t like it. They didn’t want to take it on missions, but. General Mills or whoever it was, that’s the way they sold it. Astronaut ice cream. Go to a museum and see, you’ll see freeze dried ice cream. That’s what the astronauts eat on the Space Station.

No, it’s not. There’s no such thing on the Space Station. Even though what the space station’s involved with Gemini seven and Gemini six, what happened when those spacecraft were able to fly in formation for that length of time? That’s what led to. The International Space Station, we could not have an international Space station if it weren’t for the ability for two vehicles at that speed, at that altitude to come together and do stuff.

And so we forget that. My quick question is about the uh, Lotus at one in 65. I’m so used to seeing it appear at events in the UK year after year, after year. I was [00:46:00] surprised to see it listed as resident at the Henry Ford Museum. You know, the, the Henry Ford has that whole big section that’s devoted to racing and that’s where the car actually has been kept.

But that raises a good question. What’s the car that’s going around Europe? What’s the car that they’ve got? That’s my, yeah. What’s the car that they’re taking to Goodwood and places like that and saying, here, here’s Jim Clark’s, you know, Lotus 38. Really? Prove it, you know, is that the one, and I dunno if you noticed too, in the car in the background, that was the Wood Brothers car from this year in honor of Jim Clark’s Indie win.

They took their stock car for this year for one of the races for, uh, Darlington, and they painted it to look like. The Lotus and they put the number just the way it was. And so it even said on the side it said, you know, wood Brothers powered by Ford. You know, it had all the same kind of nomenclature and it was a slick looking car.

They should have run it more than just at Darlington, but that’s on display with Jim Clark’s car as kind of a, this was then here’s now. And interestingly enough, it’s the wood brothers, it’s their car mark. That was [00:47:00] terrific as always. Thanks everybody for the questions. Um, thank you. Thank you very much.

This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports. Spanning Continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike. To share stories of race drivers race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls, and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. To learn more about the center, visit www.racing [00:48:00] archives.org.

This episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future.

For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org. We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

  • 00:00 Setting the Stage: 1965 in Motorsports and Space Exploration
  • 00:50 The Significance of 1965
  • 04:07 The Space Race: Achievements and Challenges
  • 05:03 Gemini Missions and American EVAs
  • 13:27 NASCAR’s Evolution and Controversies
  • 18:52 The 1965 Indianapolis 500
  • 24:37 Ford’s Global Racing Ambitions
  • 27:21 Bonneville Salt Flats and Land Speed Records
  • 30:03 Motorsports Legends of 1965
  • 33:25 Societal Logics and Collective Memory
  • 37:12 Q&A Session
  • 47:13 Closing Remarks and Credits

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The United States entered 1965 trailing the Soviet Union in the space race. Russia had already claimed firsts with Yuri Gagarin’s orbital flight and Valentina Tereshkova’s groundbreaking mission as the first woman in space. America’s response came through Project Gemini, a program that tested the endurance, engineering, and improvisation needed to reach the Moon.

  • Ed White’s EVA (spacewalk) became a cultural symbol, his tethered silhouette against the void embodying both vulnerability and triumph.
  • Gemini 5 and Gemini 7 pushed flight duration records, proving astronauts could survive long enough for lunar missions.
  • Rendezvous maneuvers between Gemini spacecraft demonstrated precision at 17,500 mph – an achievement as daring as any motorsport duel.

Astronauts themselves often drew parallels between rockets and race cars. Gordon Cooper compared the Titan II launch vehicle to a Corvette Stingray, underscoring how speed and control defined both frontiers.

Motorsports in 1965 mirrored the pressures of space exploration. NASCAR, Formula One, and endurance racing all faced technological upheaval and cultural shifts.

  • NASCAR’s Engine Wars: Chrysler’s 426 Hemi dominated early, only to be banned by Bill France, sparking boycotts and reshaping competition. Richard Petty’s detour into drag racing highlighted both the risks and resilience of the sport.
  • Indy 500 Revolution: Jim Clark’s victory in the Lotus 38 marked the end of front-engine dominance and the dawn of rear-engine supremacy. The Wood Brothers’ famed pit crew added efficiency and spectacle, though history suggests their role was more symbolic than decisive.
  • Ford vs. Ferrari: Carroll Shelby’s stewardship of the GT40 program transformed Ford from pretender to contender, with Daytona and Le Mans victories laying the groundwork for endurance racing glory.

Meanwhile, Bonneville Salt Flats became the proving ground for speed itself. Bob Summers’ Goldenrod shattered land speed records with four Chrysler Hemis, while Craig Breedlove and Art Arfons pushed jet cars past 600 mph, earning Breedlove the moniker “Astronaut on Wheels.”

The year also introduced names that would define motorsport for decades:

  • Mario Andretti, Rookie of the Year at Indy, claimed the USAC National Championship.
  • Jackie Stewart debuted in Formula One, quickly proving himself among the elite.
  • Jim Clark, already a champion, achieved an unmatched season—winning the Indy 500, the F1 World Championship, and multiple Formula Two titles. His modesty and mastery cemented him as one of the greatest drivers in history.

Dr. Howell emphasizes that 1965’s significance lies not only in its achievements but in how societies remember them. The year’s stories—of innovation, competition, and national ambition – continue to shape our understanding of technology and culture.

Motorsports and space exploration may seem like separate pursuits, but in 1965 they shared a common ethos: pushing boundaries, embracing risk, and redefining human capability. Whether on the track or among the stars, the spirit of that year reminds us that innovation knows no limits.

1965 was not just a year—it was a turning point. Engines roared, rockets soared, and humanity learned to dream bigger than ever before.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.


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Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:
  • Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-war American Road Racing (2006)
  • Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed (2009)
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