News – Page 25 of 61 – Gran Touring Motorsports

Preserving Provenance: How The Motor Chain is Revolutionizing Classic Car History

January 25, 2024

What if your classic car could tell its story – every oil change, every restoration, every road trip – without a single paper trail? That’s the vision behind The Motor Chain, a digital platform founded by Madrid-born computer scientist and lifelong petrol head Julio Saiz. In a recent episode of the Break/Fix podcast, Julio shared how his passion for analog driving and digital precision collided to create a new way to preserve and protect automotive history.

Photo courtesy Julio Saiz, The Motor Chain

Julio’s journey began with dreams of becoming a fighter pilot. When that didn’t pan out, he pivoted to computer science just as the internet boom took off. Two decades later, with a successful tech career under his belt, he began collecting cars – starting with an Alfa Romeo 147, followed by a pristine Honda S2000, and eventually, the crown jewel: a 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB.

That Ferrari, with its carbureted engine and non-red, blue metallic paint, wasn’t just a dream car – it was the spark that ignited The Motor Chain.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

When Julio acquired the 308, he inherited a stack of documents from the previous owner. But like many classic cars, its early history was murky. The first record dated back to 1985, leaving a mysterious eight-year gap. That experience revealed a bigger issue: classic car provenance is fragile, often scattered across glove boxes, garages, and decades.

Julio realized that owners are not just drivers – they’re custodians of history. And like good software developers, they need to document, document, document.

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix podcast, Crew Chief Eric interviews Julio Saiz, the founder of The Motor Chain, a platform designed to manage, preserve, share, and transfer the history of classic vehicles using the latest technology, including blockchain. Julio shares his background as a computer scientist and car enthusiast, recounting his journey from aspiring fighter pilot to creating The Motor Chain. He explains how the platform works, detailing its functionalities such as creating a digital twin of the car, documenting the car’s history with input from third parties, and securing records through blockchain technology. Julio also addresses concerns about data privacy, PII, and compliance with regulations like GDPR. The conversation highlights the platform’s subscription model, future development plans, and its potential use in classic car auctions. Listeners are offered a 25% discount to try the service, aiming to revolutionize classic car documentation and maintenance.

The Car History Paradox “You own the car, but you don’t own its information”
What is The Motor Chain? What was the motivation to start the app? What does it do? What are some of its features?
Timelines & Blockchains – explain how this works?
Cyber Security: Many people can be reluctant to use systems like this because, VIN are often viewed as PII (Personally Identifiable Information) – how are you handling sensitive data? GDPR compliance?
If you sell the vehicle, can you transfer it to another owner/user on the Motor Chain
Pricing model: Subscription, One-Time Fee, Versions (mobile vs website)
What’s next for The Motor Chain?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

What

Crew Chief Eric: if there was a better way to manage, preserve, share, and transfer the history of your classic vehicle through its lifetime? Steeped in the latest technology, the Motor Chain, founded by computer scientist and car enthusiast Julio Saiz, aims to satisfy that very need. And he’s here to explain how it all works and why securing and verifying the provenance of your collector vehicle is critical to its history.

Julio, welcome to BreakFix.

Julio Saiz: Hello, Eric. Thank you very much for having [00:01:00] me in the Break and Fix podcast.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, like all good BreakFix stories, there’s a superhero origin. So let’s talk about the who, what, when, and where of you and how all this came to be. What’s your petrolhead origin story?

Julio Saiz: I’ve been always fascinated about things that move fast.

Originally, I wanted to be a fighter pilot back in Spain, and I’m from Madrid. I didn’t make it. You have to study very hard. When you were 18 years old and, uh, finally didn’t make it to the air force in Spain, then I decided to do computer science engineering. I was right before the internet bubble. So it was very, uh, you know, fashion to join that profession, which I did.

And I’ve been in that industry for 20 years. Time to game. Okay. Salary. So I start to buy cars. I still own my very first car, which I bought in 2001. It’s an Alfa Romeo hatchback, 147. I don’t think that car was ever sold in the US, but I love it. My winter car, I just took it out on the summer [00:02:00] sleep. Because in 2010 or 11, I bought…

Honda is 2000, which is the car I was craving since I was, I don’t know, I mean, maybe 20 years age. And I’m the second owner of that car. Very proud of that. And it has now 70, 000 kilometers of joy. It’s a hundred percent OEM. I don’t plan to modify the car at all. And then in 2017, I wanted to buy a proper classic car.

And that was the starting of the motor chain, because I got my hands into 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB, with a new metallic saddle. And that was the origin of the motor chain idea. That was the ignition of that.

Crew Chief Eric: In the video on your website, where you talk about the founding of the motor chain, the 308 is behind you and you’re driving it around and you’re talking about it.

And you say very a matter of factly that when you were shopping for your first classic car, you really didn’t have something in mind. And I kind of chuckled because we’re all petrol heads of a certain age and the 308 is a bit the [00:03:00] icon. So I wanted to ask, was Magnum PI as big of a deal in Europe as it was in the United States in the 80s?

Julio Saiz: Yes, Magnum PI is very well known. It was never my favorite, to be honest. It’s not a TV show I like it a lot. I’m more full moon with Bruce Willis, you know, and this kind of TV show. That was my show in the 80s. So Miami Vice, for example, more than Magnum PI. The 308 came by luck, I will say. I had a budget and I was considering 993 or 960.

for Porsche. I wanted a very analogic car. I want to emulate Fangio feeling. And the reason I bought this car finally was because it’s early still. So it’s carburetor. There’s not injection. And I was not sure because the car is not red, but it is blue, blue, blue metal. It’s subtle. That’s the reason that nobody wanted, but I think I made the right choice in buying these.

Crew Chief Eric: So do you like driving it? What’s the experience like? It is like

Julio Saiz: working out. It’s like going to the gym. I think I lost a [00:04:00] kilo every time I drive it in summer, it sucks 20 liters of fuel per a hundred kilometers. And I think like really 10 go to the engine, five go to the air and then five go to me because you really smell fuel when you arrive home, I love it.

And honestly, it’s full experience, whole sensorial experience. I really, really, really enjoy the car big time.

Crew Chief Eric: So as you mentioned, the 308 is the jumping off point for the motor chain. So let’s talk a little bit more about what the motor chain is. The backstory here is that when you bought the 308, as you said, it leaks fuel, but it has that analog experience and there’s probably a little oil in there.

And you’re not really sure. What the history of the car is. And that’s the most important part. When you take ownership as a custodian of a classic car, you want as much information as possible because you don’t want to throw good money after bad. And you don’t want to start replacing parts that have already been recently replaced.

And without those records, it’s really hard to tell. So what was it about the 308 that made you go, [00:05:00] Hmm. I wish I knew more about this car.

Julio Saiz: In particular, I was lucky because the previous owner was a very good collector and he kept very good records of the work that he did. So the negotiation of the price was very transparent.

Thanks to the fact that we knew what had to be done to the car, what there was done to the car before. But it is true that going back a little bit to the car had a gap between 77 and 85. Okay. The first carbon copy invoice I have from the car is from 1985, which by the way, I found the owner back in the U S of that car.

He’s helping me to build the story back of that car. But the most important is when I bought the car, I took all the paperwork with me, and then I felt the responsibility of keeping track of it. We, as an owners of cars, we do have a responsibility of documenting the car. And this is something that not everyone feels.

That’s why also one part of the Motochain is educating the community [00:06:00] about the importance of documenting the car. This is fundamental.

Crew Chief Eric: And what’s funny about that is it parallels computer science as we have evolved in writing programming languages. What do we always tell developers? Document, document, document.

Julio Saiz: Best practice.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly. As code changes hands, somebody else needs to pick up where you left off. And cars are very similar in that way. It’s ironic that you’re bringing these two worlds together. So let’s talk a little bit more about how the motor chain works and how you developed it.

Julio Saiz: At the beginning, it was a little bit like a paperless project.

Like, Oh, I don’t, I don’t like paper. Paper get lost, so let’s do something that you can accumulate all the paper in electronic format. But then I went a little bit further. I was familiar with blockchain technology, and then I’m also familiar with putting together business models using technology, and I further developed that and I put together the business model for the MotoChain.

So with the MotoChain, what you do is you put the car in the middle of an ecosystem. Which is the classic car ecosystem. You put an asset in the middle of the ecosystem. Obviously [00:07:00] that the first person who has to jump into the motor chain is the owner. The owner will have to register the car in the motor chain.

You create a digital twin of the car with the registration process, chassis number, et cetera. And then the owner has the possibility of taking all the paperwork. From the past and put it on the motor chain in a timeline format. The most important thing of the motor chain is that you, as an owner, you can open the car to third parties.

So you take the car to your shop, to your mechanic, and then the mechanic can participate. into your car’s history. So they can input all the maintenance, all the work, all the restoration. They can document the work with photos. They can upload the invoices with photos, with PDF. And this input of any third party will be electronically signed off in the motochain.

And because we use blockchain technology and a little bit of governance, which is the validation. Of the identity of every user in the motor chain, the input [00:08:00] in the car history done by third parties is irrefutable and nobody can dispute in the future that this person did the job in the car. So you kind of fake it.

That’s the fundamental, let’s say, functionality of the motor chain.

Crew Chief Eric: I really like some of these features. One of them that sticks out to me and Julio, if you don’t mind me adding a request for engineering here in RFE.

Julio Saiz: Go ahead.

Crew Chief Eric: The notebook part is fascinating. But I’d love to take it to the next level because there is the preservation part of classic car collecting, but there’s also that resto mod part where you have a car that, you know, you’re trying to do something different with, or you’re building a show car.

There’s a lot of custom builds in the United States. It would be fun to expand upon that notebook and not just be. A to do list, but a mod list and to be able to write notes. And this is how we board over the engine. And this is how we rewired the fuel pump. And you know, this is where the trick switches to start the car, because some of these custom builds, when they change hands, you start scratching your head going, well, what did they do?

Why is it like this? Why did they wire it like [00:09:00] that? It’d be nice to have those builders notes in there where you can go back and go, Oh, okay. That makes more sense. And now I can trace back the history of that custom part of the build itself.

Julio Saiz: Well, I have good news Eric, you can do that already.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, that’s awesome.

Julio Saiz: Yeah. Because you put an event in the timeline, we have a huge inventory of things that you can put there. And when you are building a restomode, you should document that. Like you start in January, 2024. Okay. We’ll start with the engine and you can start documenting what you do with the engine. You take the engine out, you put the engine apart, and then I’m going to put it with these pistons, new bore, whatever.

You should document all of that in the timeline of the car. Absolutely. It’s available. You can do it and you should do it. Exactly the way you describe it should be part of the car history. No question.

Crew Chief Eric: Can you also add where you purchased the parts from in case you need to order another one?

Julio Saiz: You have to.

I mean, so how to document something. So my recommendation is [00:10:00] that at the moment that the car has a failure, for example, it broke, something broke, you start documenting straightforward that day. The mileage the car had, you make a photo of the odometer. You make a photo of whatever the mess is, all the oil leaking, whatever, you make a photo.

And then you buy the spare part. You have the invoice of the spare part. It has to be part of the documentation. Then you take it to the shop and the shop will put the things apart and discover new things. You make a photo of whatever you discover. And then you make a photo of the after, when everything is clean and nice.

You make a photo of that. And finally, the invoice. the date of the work and the mileage and that’s it. So don’t wait to document after the job is done because you will forget a lot of details. Start documenting when the thing happen. The Motochain you can work in draft mode so you can immediately lock something in the timeline and you can build up, you know, that event and then when everything is closed, it’s done, it’s fixed.

The rest of the mode is Phoenix, then you just close everything, you remove the draft [00:11:00] mode, and then you stamp it in the timeline, and that’s forever.

Crew Chief Eric: So the timeline part of this makes sense, right? You’re building a chronology of the vehicle. But for our listeners that may not be familiar with blockchain technology, can you boil it down and explain how that works, and how it relates to the timeline that you’re building?

Julio Saiz: I think we’re all familiar with the concept of database. So database, you accumulate information and you have it information somewhere. And then the information belongs to whoever owns the database. That’s not the case of the Motochain. It’s a distributed database. The timeline is just the format that we propose to represent the history of the car.

I think it’s very user friendly to have the timeline of your car history in a way to represent what happened to the car in the past. The features of the blockchain, so why we use it, as I mentioned. We make the history irrefutable, the inputs of third parties, but also you can modify any input in the car.

When you transfer the car to the next owner, the next owner cannot modify anything in the timeline. And that mitigates the [00:12:00] risk of someone telling lies about the car. So you can modify the past of the car. And the last thing we use blockchain is because the transfer of the asset. So we control the property of the car.

So when you sell the car, you can transfer. The car and all the documentation to the next owner. And this is controlled by blockchain technology, which is fundamentally the property transfer.

Crew Chief Eric: The timeline and blockchain technology that you’re using, as you said, the history of the car becomes locked, but you also proposed a use case, which is contradictory to that in the sense that you have a hole in your history for the 308 between 77 and 85.

So if you can’t change the history, how are you able to modify missing records or add pieces where there are gaps in the timeline?

Julio Saiz: No, you can. I mean, if I find something between 77 and 85, I can create an event and I’ll say, Oh, I found a new owner and I have the evidence, very important. I have a document telling me that some person owned this car or some shop maintained this car [00:13:00] in seventies.

And I can do that. What you cannot do is modify an input in the timeline that.

Crew Chief Eric: But you can put pieces in between if there’s say you found another receipt or something like that.

Julio Saiz: So this is great. That adds

Crew Chief Eric: a layer, not only of security of chronology, but also accountability, which is really important with a collector car.

Who has been touching it? Who’s been responsible with it? Maybe there’s some parts that are missing. You can go back to that mechanic or that person and say, Hey, is there a box of 308s? Stuff laying around that we forgot when the other gentleman or lady sold the car. Which also brings up an interesting point.

You talk about the transfer of ownership. Is it possible to sell a vehicle through the motor chain?

Julio Saiz: I didn’t want the motor chain to be a marketplace. Cause there are many, there are very good, there are good, there are bad. There are online auctions. There are traditional marketplace, but if you are selling your car and you want to have transparent and honest conversation with.

the final [00:14:00] buyer or the two or three final buyers, you would like the buyer or as a buyer, I would like to understand better what the history of the car is. And this is when the motor chain enters into the discussion. As an owner, you can open the car to the buyer and the buyer in remote, obviously, will have time to take a look to the car history from the sofa in his living room with a glass of wine understanding what happened to the car.

You cannot sell a car but it will participate into the buy and sell process. And then when you sell the car, you can transfer that to the next one.

Crew Chief Eric: And then there’s the concept of classic car auctions, ranging from your local auction to the Meecums and the Barrett Jacksons, all the way up through the Pebble Beach Concours and everything in between.

So in that instance, using your technology, have you created an API where you can open that up to, let’s say, a Mecham to go in and pull the provenance of the [00:15:00] vehicle? How does that work in an auction situation where there might be a couple hundred people trying to look at the back history of the vehicle before they purchase it?

Is there an option for that in the motor chain?

Julio Saiz: There is an option for that as soon as, uh, all an auction company house like to take the next step in their value proposition for the clients. We can easily build an API and connect with these platforms. Not a problem.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you working to partner with any auction houses now?

Julio Saiz: We are having discussion with several parties. Which I cannot disclose as you can imagine. Okay. I will be more than happy to do so soon. They are all in houses. There are different kinds of parties. We like to make them as a step in maturity and value proposition for the clients. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: So over the years, there’s been other tools, proposed ideas.

Even rough application development that’s been put together in the similar vein of the motor chain, but they never reached maturity like you did. But I’ve heard from some people that there’s a reluctance to put data [00:16:00] in a system like this. Because oftentimes the chassis number or the VIN, the vehicle identification number partnered with this record information or these receipts, which could have partial credit card numbers, addresses, names, things like that.

Now we reach a realm of what we call PII or personally identifiable information. How is the motor chain handling PII sensitive data? And now with new regulatory compliances in play like GDPR and others, how do you deal with the destruction of data and the dissemination of information?

Julio Saiz: First of all, the motor chain is 100 percent private.

There is no website. Where you can browse for cars, the car and the information of the car belongs to the owner is only up to the owner to open the car to someone else. The sharing process starts with the owner and is in one direction only, and it’s always one one. So you always know who you are sharing the information with.

So there is no broadcasting of information. ever. Then as a data processor, which is our role here, we used [00:17:00] best practices in development and best practices in hosting to avoid or to mitigate as much as possible the always inherent risk of managing electronic information in the internet. But we do not share the information with third parties.

We do not have publicity in our platform. And of course we do not trade. With the collector’s information or the cost information, that’s not our business model. We are not a social media and we are not a marketplace. And therefore is the reason that the platform is a paid platform. It’s not for free.

Crew Chief Eric: When we dig a little deeper and we talk about the receipt process and having those added to the timeline. Not to expose exactly how it works under the hood, but let me throw a scenario out here. I take a receipt, maybe I use my mobile device or I’m on my desktop and I want to basically scan it into the system.

Is that being stored as an image? A PDF? Is it being converted by OCR? OCR being Optical Character Recognition. And the reason I ask that is [00:18:00] Is there an opportunity for an owner or a user to obfuscate personally identifiable information, like their name or their address or other billing information when the receipts are stored in the system?

Julio Saiz: What the system will do is it will store an image in case you are making a photo with your mobile phone, or in case you are using your, uh, drive to upload information or a PDF, if you choose to upload a PDF, which it happens in the case of invoices from the garage, there’s no OCR, we don’t use OCR. If the owner feels like they want to obfuscate the information, they can do that.

Crew Chief Eric: Obviously with GDPR, if I decide I sell the car and I don’t transfer the records to somebody else, or I want to purge the records from the system, they are completely deleted by rule and regulation.

Julio Saiz: Of course, if we receive the request to either list the information that we have of a certain user or delete, we will delete, of course.

Crew Chief Eric: In the process of developing this whole portfolio, there’s a validation aspect of it too. So now there’s another layer of personally identifiable information. [00:19:00] You’re adding in an identification like a driver’s license. Why?

Julio Saiz: We need that to secure the irrefutability of the information. I think we mentioned before the accountability.

When you ask someone to participate in your car’s documentation, you as an owner, as a car collector, you will show two persons with reputation. You will like your restorer or your very respected and reputed shop to document their work. And of course we want that person when documenting the car is putting his reputation at stake.

And you as a collector, you want that because it’s not only the collector saying my car is A, B, C, it’s good, it’s bad. It’s another party saying that this car is good or bad, or I have done this job. The trust on your car documentation increases with more people participating in your car history. The more people you have.

Participating in your car history, the higher the trust and the higher the value of [00:20:00] your car will be. Obviously, if we had allowed anyone to do so with any identity validation, it would have zero value when we’re doing the MotoChamp. So I want the MotoChamp to be a very serious platform. So therefore I ask the participants to validate their identity for accountability.

Crew Chief Eric: Does that also extend to the shops that are doing the work? Yes. Absolutely. There are some shops that maybe they were around for four decades and they’re not here anymore. So now you almost have to build a history and a credibility on what they were doing with respect to maybe the Ferrari community or the Porsche community and all the cars that they worked on.

Julio Saiz: If the garages appear, you have an invoice. From 50 years ago, we cannot ask this garage to validate their identity. I mean, in this case, the owner will upload the invoice and that’s it. But from this point on, there is no excuse to have the validation and the electronic certification of the new participants in your car history.

Crew Chief Eric: You mentioned earlier. A paid service. So let’s talk about the pricing model. Is it a [00:21:00] subscription? Is it a one time fee? The different versions of the motor chain? If it’s a tiered system, is it a per seat? And I mean that by per driver’s seat. Are you paying per car? Is it per owner? How does the pricing model work for the motor chain?

Julio Saiz: So it’s very simple. It’s a subscription and you will pay 50 Per car per year, and that will give you access to all the features of the motor chain with a limited documentation for the car and or the shops is free so they can add whatever they want for free is just the owner needs to have the car subscribed in the platform.

There is another service that we offer currently only in in Switzerland, which is professional documentation service because we discovered that there are owners. And we have clients with a lot of cars and they do not have time to take all the existing paperwork and put it on the motor chain. And we say, no worries, we do it for you.

And we do where the cars are. And then we register the [00:22:00] car, just his number, et cetera. And we take all the paperwork. We scan it professionally. And we indexed all that information into the motor chain. And from that point on is the responsibility of the owner or the owner’s shops restore us to keep documenting the car

Crew Chief Eric: Are you storing those physical files for them as well or they get returned to the owner?

Julio Saiz: We do not neither. I allow the owners to post me the documentation. We go where the documentation is Cause you know, the paperwork is very valuable, so I don’t want the paper to be flying around in any case. Is

Crew Chief Eric: it all mobile based or is there a web equivalent?

Julio Saiz: Both. The very first version was iOS, which is available in the Apple store.

And instead of doing Android version, we decided to do web sensitive version, which you can use it from your laptop. So it’s a web version, any device, mobile device with web brochure, we’ll be able to use it with the same functionalities that we have in the iOS.

Crew Chief Eric: You talked about transfer of [00:23:00] ownership, especially within the app owner to owner.

How does that work? I’ve been paying for my subscription for whatever car I have, and I sell it to somebody and I transfer all my records over. Suddenly they get a bill for 50 bucks for that new car, or is, does the subscription have to run out and then it’s co termed into the renewal process?

Julio Saiz: So when you transfer the car, your renewal as an owner will be automatically canceled.

So you will not get further invoices for that car. And the next owner, at the moment that he will receive the car and the car documentation with no cost. But at the moment that he or she wants to continue the documentation, then the subscription will pop up for him or her.

Crew Chief Eric: Is there a period of time That a car and its documentation can stay in limbo.

Say I sell you my car. I say, okay, this car is sold. It no longer belongs to me. It’s going to go to Julio and you don’t accept it for a while. Maybe you’re busy. You forgot about it. Is there a point where those records are deleted or they just permanently stay in limbo [00:24:00] until you accept final ownership of the documents?

Julio Saiz: So we’ll keep sending reminders. to the seller and we will communicate to the buyer that the request is done is between them to accept and or get the request but if the buyer has executed the request and the seller is not sending the card we will send in automatic reminders in the case this is not happening the buyer will contact us and we will contact the seller about what the problem is could be a technical issue normally or this is something that you don’t do every day So maybe they don’t know how to do it.

They get lost with the process, which is very simple. I mean, that should not be the case. And then normally the seller then send the car with no problem. It actually, it takes three clicks to transfer a car. It’s no more than that. It happened and maybe someone does not want to receive the car in the moto chain because doesn’t like it.

And then the seller will communicate that to us and we will store the car. We have a special account, which is the storage.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s especially important, too, when you’re thinking about [00:25:00] maybe a state planning, where you have a large collection and the owner or the curator passes away. What do you do with those records?

There’s a provenance there. Nobody wants to start this process over again. Purging the information is one thing, but it’s that lost in limbo situation where what do you do with that car? And I’m glad to see that you guys have taken the time and foresight to say, we need to hold this. We don’t want to recreate the wheel every time a car transfers around.

Thank you.

Julio Saiz: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, our mission is to preserve the car history and avoid gaps. So obviously, I mean, we do not believe that information unless the owner asks for it. We spoke about that GDPR wise, the car will remain in the storage. And hopefully crossing fingers that in the future, maybe another owner will call us and say, by the way, is there a chance that this car was in the motor shape and we’ll look for it.

Obviously the owner will have to show evidence of ownership. There is a governance. They’re not only technology and if we agree that effectively he or she is the new owner, then we will move the car to him or [00:26:00] her

Crew Chief Eric: expanding on that. There is a concept of community on the motor chain. How does that work?

Is it open? Is it by invite? What kind of information is shared in the community portion of the TMC?

Julio Saiz: It is not by invitation. So everyone who owns a car and believes that the car deserve documentation, which in my opinion, Any car deserves documentation is open to register to the car and start documenting the car the community right now We have growing a social media channel which communicate developments of the platform We are very strong in linkedin as well So you can follow me in linkedin which are sharing information of our progress and I have a regular newsletter Where we inform about changes in the platform upcoming events, etc

Crew Chief Eric: Like every good software package, you have a roadmap and a release cycle.

So what’s next for the motor chain plans to expand any new features, some spoilers you can give us.

Julio Saiz: Probably the first is sync a little bit, the iOS version with the web version in the [00:27:00] iOS version, we, uh, fulfill these with not only the documentation of the car, but you have alarms, you have maintenance alarms, you have also what we call.

Notebooks, which is a kind of electronic post its where you can list the to dos with the car. It’s not really documentation, but you know, it’s important to have the list of what you have to do with the car. So probably the next version will sync all these functionalities with the web version. The web version doesn’t have this.

It has only the documentation part, the history. A lot of users are asking me the possibility to print out In a PDF, a summary of the car, they still like to have a paper that could be probably next future. Something which is already available is the history preserve sticker. The owners, they do have the possibility of asking us for this sticker.

This is unique per car and it comes with different colors in blue, silver or gold according to how good your documentation is. And [00:28:00] then we will go through documentation and we will do a rating. Well, you know, we have the best documented car in the world. We will use the same methodology to rate the documentation of the car.

And we will listen to this very special high quality sticker that our owners, they have it in the windshield of the car. And you can show that not only the car is in good condition, but you also look after the documentation and maybe you are a gold, a history preserved gold ring by the motor ship.

Crew Chief Eric: So you’re speaking my language, Julio.

This is awesome. And you know what I can see? At least one

Julio Saiz: convinced. I have one believer.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I can see it applying to even your passenger vehicles too, right? Because maybe they’re not as prestigious as a classic car, but they have their own provenance. And when you go to go sell your Alpha 147 to somebody else and they go, well, this is a great car.

It is what it is. It’s a hot hatch, but it’s nice to have that records that go with it. Right? So this is really awesome to be able to do this for pretty much any vehicle that exists out there.

Julio Saiz: If you love the car, it should be in the motor chain. That’s my motto.

Crew Chief Eric: With that, [00:29:00] we’ve reached the part of the episode where I like to ask our guests any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t covered thus far.

Julio Saiz: Eric, thank you for having me. And I will be more than happy to offer 25 percent discount to all your listeners.

Crew Chief Eric: We will be adding that promo code to our show notes. So we’ll have lots of follow on information and other details about the motor shade that you can check out at gtmotorsports. org. The Motorchain connects collector car owners with professionals and buyers, allowing all parties to participate in the vehicle’s documentation and history interactions and transfers, and are controlled and regulated with blockchain technology, securing trust in the documentation, And the vehicle’s provenance with the motor chain, you’ll never have to wonder about the health and status of your vehicles.

To learn more, visit www.themotorchain.com or follow Julio and the team on social media, at the motor chain, on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Or follow them on Instagram at the motor chain [00:30:00] TMC underscore, and be sure to check out their YouTube channel. With that Julio, I can’t thank you enough for coming on break, fix and sharing your story and introducing the collector car and even us motor sports guys to a new piece of technology, a new piece of kit that we need in our arsenal to be able to continue to love, cherish, and take care of our cars.

There’s been rumblings about the need for a product like the motor chain for a very long time. And I’m happy to see that someone like yourself has stepped up to make it a reality. So thank you for what you’re doing.

Julio Saiz: My pleasure, Eric. Thank you for having me. And this is my 5 cents for the car community.

And I hope you guys will use it and enjoy it as much as I did building it. And like you say, the roadmap is not finished. So please come to me with ideas and I promise I will put them in the roadmap for you guys.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of BreakFix Podcast brought to you by Grand Tory Motorsports. [00:31:00] If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at GrandTouringMotorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article at GTMotorsports.

org. We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional Pit Stop minisodes, and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators Fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gumby bears, and monster.

So consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without you, none of this would be [00:32:00] possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
00:55 Meet Julio Saiz: The Man Behind The Motor Chain
01:12 Julio’s Petrolhead Journey
02:21 The Birth of The Motor Chain
04:27 Understanding The Motor Chain
11:04 Blockchain Technology in Classic Car Documentation
15:55 Privacy and Security in The Motor Chain
20:57 Subscription and Pricing Model
26:01 Future Plans and Community Engagement
28:59 Conclusion and Promotions

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

To learn more logon to www.themotorchain.com or follow them on social media @themotorchain on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. @themotorchain_tmc_ on Instagram, and be sure to checkout their YT channel.

For the first 100 listeners to create a new account on The Motor Chain, use our promo code Break/FixTMC to receive 25% off your subscription.

The Motor Chain is a blockchain-powered platform that creates a digital twin of your vehicle. Owners can upload historical documents, maintenance records, and restoration photos into a secure, chronological timeline. But it doesn’t stop there – mechanics, restorers, and shops can also contribute directly to a car’s history, with their entries cryptographically signed and verified.

This ensures that every touchpoint in a car’s life is traceable, tamper-proof, and transferable to future owners.

More Than Just Maintenance

While The Motor Chain excels at preserving service records, it also embraces the creativity of the car community. Whether you’re building a restomod, crafting a show car, or just tinkering in your garage, the platform lets you document modifications, parts sourcing, and even quirky builder notes (like where the hidden fuel pump switch is).

Julio encourages owners to start documenting the moment something happens – snap a photo of the odometer, the leak, the fix, and the invoice. The platform supports draft mode, so you can build out an event over time before locking it into the timeline.

Unlike social media or online marketplaces, The Motor Chain is private by design. Only the owner can choose who sees the car’s history, and there’s no public browsing. All data is stored securely, and the platform complies with GDPR and other privacy regulations. Owners can even request full deletion of their data.

When a car changes hands, its digital history can be transferred to the new owner with just a few clicks – ensuring continuity without compromising privacy.

The Motor Chain isn’t just for individual collectors. Julio envisions partnerships with auction houses, museums, and estate planners. The platform already supports professional documentation services in Switzerland, where Motor Chain staff digitize and index physical records on-site.

There’s also a growing community of users, a newsletter, and a roadmap that includes syncing mobile and web features, printable car histories, and a unique “History Preserved” sticker program that rates and celebrates well-documented vehicles.

Julio’s mission is clear: to make provenance as important as polish. Whether your car is a concours queen or a daily driver, its story matters. And with The Motor Chain, that story can live on – secure, complete, and ready for the next chapter.

To learn more or start documenting your own vehicle, visit themotorchain.com.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Speed, Symbolism, and Sovereignty: How Grand Prix Racing Became a Battleground of Nationalism in the 1930s

IMRRC

January 22, 2024

Speed, Symbolism, and Sovereignty: How Grand Prix Racing Became a Battleground of Nationalism in the 1930s

In the 1930s, Grand Prix racing was more than a sport – it was a stage for political theater, national pride, and ideological projection. Historian Katharine Worth, speaking at the International Motor Racing Research Center symposium, unpacked how Germany and Great Britain used motor racing to express – and contest – their visions of civilization, modernity, and power.

Worth opened with a provocative quote from A.M. Lowe in Speed magazine (1935): “Speed is important, not for its own sake, because it is the very basis of civilization.” This sentiment, she argued, encapsulated the era’s belief that technological prowess – especially in automotive speed—reflected a nation’s cultural and political superiority.

In this framework, Grand Prix racing became a proxy for global influence. The fastest cars weren’t just mechanical marvels – they were national statements.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

After Hitler’s rise to power in 1933, Germany aggressively aligned its automotive industry with state propaganda. The Silver Arrows – Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union – were subsidized by the Nazi regime and centralized under the National Socialist Motor Corps (NSKK). These cars weren’t just fast; they were symbols of a “new Germany,” modern and dominant.

Yet this modernity clashed with Nazi ideology. While the regime romanticized agrarian life and “blood and soil,” it also celebrated high-tech machines. Worth highlighted how exhibitions reframed this contradiction, turning race cars into sacred objects of national pride – enshrined with laurel wreaths, imperial eagles, and swastikas.

Spotlight

Katharine Worth is a graduate student in History at the University of Western Australia. Following her Master’s research at the University of Edinburgh on the banal and natural involvement of politics historically in the Olympic Movement, Ms. Worth’s current research traces the relationship of politics and nationalism in Formula One (and it’s motor racing predecessors).

Synopsis

This episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsports series, features a detailed presentation by Katharine Worth, a graduate student in history at the University of Western Australia. Worth explores the intersection of politics, nationalism, and motor racing in 1930s Germany and Great Britain. The presentation delves into how Nazi Germany utilized motor racing, particularly the Silver Arrows of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union, as symbols of national pride, modernity, and technological prowess. Conversely, it examines Britain’s struggle to compete at the Grand Prix level due to a lack of funding and political support, despite a strong desire within the racing community. The script also touches on the lives and impacts of key figures such as German driver Bernard Rosemeyer and British driver Richard Seaman, highlighting their roles and significance within the political landscape of the time. Finally, the discussion extends to the ongoing relevance of nationalism in contemporary Formula One racing.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break/Fix’s History of Motorsports series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argettsinger family. Politicizing Grand Prix Racing in the 1930s Germany and Great Britain by Krathen Wurth.

Catherine Worth is a graduate student in history at the University of Western Australia. Following her master’s research at the University of Edinburgh on the banal and natural involvement of politics historically in the Olympic movement, Ms. Worth’s current research traces the relationship of politics and nationalism in Formula One and its racing predecessors.

Her presentation will analyze the 1930s through the lens of Grand Prix racing and the aspirations to race at that level in Germany and Great Britain, addressing how motor racing became increasingly connected to politics and nationalism, showcasing the complex relationship between Germany and Britain at that time.

Ms. [00:01:00] Worth’s discussion will highlight the British and German perspectives and usages of motor racing in the 1930s as motor racing became entangled with the politics and rising tensions of the period. Speed became the marker of quote, civilization in Europe, a power Germany possessed, and one that Great Britain envied.

Our next speaker is coming to us from Western Australia, Catherine Worth. I’m Catherine Worth. Firstly, thank you to the International Motor Racing Research Center for organizing this symposium and making it possible for me to present via Zoom today. I would like to begin today’s presentation with a quote from Professor A.

M. Lear’s article in the British Racing Driver Club’s magazine, Speed, in August of 1935. Speed is important, not for its own sake, because it is a very basis of civilization. This statement addresses key themes of the 1930s I would like to discuss and unpack. The correlation between speed and civilization and how nation states use speed is represented in Grand Prix racing to showcase fidelity and dominance.

in international [00:02:00] politics and sport, particularly from 1933 through to 1939. So how does Lowe define the relationship between civilization and speed? From Lowe’s perspective, civilization meant the spreading of knowledge and humane ideas across distances quickly. Speed was rapid transport, particularly that of cars, which would enable people and ideas to move.

Alternatively, arising out of this comment, my research will argue that a nation’s level of civilization rested on the ability to manufacture the world’s fastest cars. Speed was the possession of Grand Prix cars and civilization was victory in these events. As motor racing is a sport that compares speeds between nations, a nation’s level of technological civilization could be ranked.

The structure of the presentation will begin with analyzing politics and nationalism in motor racing occurring in Nazi Germany. The silver arrows of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union will be discussed, as well as the symbolism of the car for the regime. The hero narrative and legacy of Auto Union driver, Bernard Rosa, will also be considered.

Following from this, the focus will shift to Britain in the periods, a nation with [00:03:00] no car and no funding to race at Grand Prix level. This section six Explore Way Britain did not invest in motor racing considering members of the racing community saw speed as a marker for civilization. The final section follows the relationship between Britain and Germany in the late 1930s and motor racing.

The collision of angler general relations be showcased. The 1938 Donnington Grand Prix, the life of British Mercedes-Benz driver, Richard Seaman. And the calls for an English order. Em. The sources for this research primarily come from Britain and the British murdering press, and a few German sources are also included.

On the 11th of February, 1933, during the opening addresses for the International Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition, Adolf Hitler stated his intentions to align the automobile industry with aviation, to reduce the tax burden of the automotive sector, create a highway system, and promote German automobile sporting events.

Occurring 12 days following Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor of Germany, this speech became a turning point in Germany’s commitment to automobilism and the rise of the Silver Arrows. The [00:04:00] seriousness of motor racing for the Nazi government can be seen through the centralization of racing under the National Socialist Motor Corps, or NSKK.

This enabled a controlled and unified racing team. This did also create militaristic ties to racing. One example is the paramilitary rank Hellbent Drivers. Furthermore, the Nazi government was involved with subsidizing Mercedes Benz and Auto Union from 1933 onwards. In a period following the Great Depression and war debt that Germany had, to provide any money to a racing team seems quite an expense to justify.

Other countries that also fund their teams, including fascist Italy, and reports include the French government sponsoring their teams in the later half of the 1930s. There are numerous factors, including commercial policies that can explain this expense, but for my research, I’m interested in the nationals aspect.

The drivers in the cars became symbols of modernity and success for a new Germany Hitler was creating. International competition created proof of Nazi superiority on the motoring front. The silver arrows and the racing team [00:05:00] through extensive propaganda were a vision of a modern Nazi Germany. However, this creates a problem due to the contradicting nature of Nazi ideology and modernity.

To put succinctly, Nazism was a political ideology in Germany during the 1930s, which proclaimed the superiority of the Aryan race. Associated with the Volkgemeinschaft, or people’s community, was the slogan Blut und Beutin, or blood and soil. This romanticized the idea of the peasant farmer and a return to the land.

This looking backwards ideology is contrasted though by the motorization policies and the modernity the cars represent in it. Careful reframing and stressing of the historical legacy of the car in Germany aided in bridging this discrepancy. Unfortunately, I cannot cover the full extent of this complex relationship in today’s presentation.

So the silver arrows were a key symbol of Nazi German pride, modernity, and nationalism. In the British motor magazine, Motorsport, they associated the victories of the Germans of racing cars. For Germany’s turn to motorization under Hitler, the Silver Allies became the pinnacle of the [00:06:00] German automotive industry.

The German racing teams, it was suggested by Motorsport, were run principally to raise the prestige and to demonstrate the power, efficiency and strength of Germany all over the world. In international sport, the setting enables one nation to compare itself against other nations. For motor sport, not only could they compare the sport craft of racing, but also the technology held by each nation.

This connection between the silver arrows, German identity, and victory was quickly established and propagandized to the German public. So the Nazi government, motorizing, provided a bounty of propaganda. The racing successes and its reflected glory, all of which were broadcast to the nation on state provided radios, screened in films, and printed in the news.

According to Neil Bazcombe, Adolf Hermann, the corpse Fuhrer for the NSKK, took every opportunity to herald the country’s dominance at the Grand Prix, as he believed racing is and always will be the highest embodiment of motorsport, and that’s the highest achievement of the nation in international competition.

One example of symbolism with silver arrows and Nazi German [00:07:00] nationalism is the presentation of the cars at the International Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition. They are metallic emblems of progress which were encased in a pageantry to highlight German ingenuity and success. On the slide is an advertisement for the exhibition in Motorsport from February of 1935.

Behind the landscapes and landmarks of Berlin is one of the landscape record cars towering above the cityscape. The car is emerging from the capital, representing the new future emerging from the political center of Germany. As reported in the Times, these exhibitions are not international, but highlight the German first class craftsmanship and inventiveness.

On this slide is an image of the Mercedes Benz Grand Prix car at the 1935 International Automobile and Motorcycle Show, displayed in the Fall of Seine exhibition. The car is situated between two pillars, which on the walls are plaques detailing the successes of the car with the insignia of the NSPK.

Below the car is a laurel wreath, which is an ancient Greek symbol for triumph, and positioned above the car is the Imperial Eagle of Germany, with the swastika and its talons. [00:08:00] The foreground shows lights which are reminiscent of fireballs, and although not shown from this angle, there are guards surrounding the vehicle.

The staging, according to Julia Grossberger, generates a sense that the cars are meant to be viewed as objects of veneration, not for inspection. The light of the Holophane combines a museum with a hero’s shrine. The quasi spherical elements of the wreaths, imperial eagle lights, plaque, and honor guards provide the appearance that the cars are lying in state.

These cars are transformed into symbols of German greatness and superiority. So given this heroic staging of the cars, the drivers also had to match those qualities and be the right character to drive Germany to victory. The German racing drivers became part of a new socio cultural class, the sporting celebrity.

They were praised for their heroism and willingness to sacrifice oneself for the nation. A young driver school had been set up to foster German talent rather than force German teams to hire foreign drivers. This shows an aspiration of a national team in which the driver identity matches the identity of manufacturer.

However, as we [00:09:00] mentioned later with Richard Seaman, this cohesive national identity could be relegated as driver talent may have been more important. So of all the German drivers in this period, Chris Nixon comments, Bernard Rosemeyer was probably the most used driver by the Nazi government. However, why was Rosemeyer used for compared to other drivers?

What was the appeal of Rosemeyer for the Nazi regime? An explanation is the hero narrative that was easily constructed by Rosemeyer. He came from humble origins to the 1936 European Drivers Champion. He was a successful and talented racer, but at the same time suited the mould of what a German athlete and a German male should strive to be.

We know the phrase, heroes are created for when they are required, and for post WWI Germany and a new government, heroes were needed. For Nazi Germany, a hero needed to be physically fit, mentally strong, and successful. The horrors of the First World War saw men returning home with shell shock and war wounds.

Thus, Reisheim needed to represent a new Germany, one that was both [00:10:00] physically and mentally fit, withstand modernity, and the possible horrors associated with a modern to illogical war. The creation of male heroes like Rosemeyer were credited with the will and the resolve that gave him the ability to use his car as a weapon in battle.

Rosemeyer symbolized a new era for Germany. His victories in America and in Europe were seen as tangible proofs of a rise of a new, modern Germany. His death on the 28th of January, 1938, during a landslide record attempt, provided an important propaganda spectacle for the regime. A soldier doing his utmost to represent the honour and glory of Germany.

His death was treated like a period of mourning. Unlike most years, there was no procession of the cars through Berlin prior to the motor show in respect to Brozmaier’s death. His death was reframed in every aspect. It was not a full hearty speed test. Instead, as Fritz Tod, the director of the construction of the Autobahn status, he died as a soldier in the exercise of his duty.

According to a report in Motorsport, Hitler referred in his speech to the national loss sustained by the death of this great driver. Neil [00:11:00] Baskin Pilate’s Rosemart was even likened to Siegfried, the dragon slaying hero of German mythology. Even in death, Rosenstein’s fatal accident was transformed and mythicized into a hero and soldier narrative.

Now, in Britain, on the other hand, the racing community desired to have a car that could race against the silver arrows. They believed Britain should and needed to develop a racing team to uphold British nationalism abroad. The success of Napier in the pre war periods and in the victories of the Bentley boys in the 1920s reflected a historical precedent of British ability to produce winning cars.

Unfortunately, British manufacturers could not produce a car suitable to compete within the regulations for the 1930s. The amateurism of the Bentley Boys and the Napier Drivers could explain part of the setback. Amateurism was this belief in fair play and that sport should not involve material gain.

This, combined with the financial issues of becoming a driver, meant that racing in Britain was restricted to those who could afford it and had time to participate in it. This was completely different to Germany, where in Germany, the drivers were selected because of [00:12:00] talent and weren’t paid to drive. For the motoring press, the British government were responsible for Britain’s failings.

In motorsport, they believed there was an assured popularity to motor racing among the general public of Great Britain, but the opposition by the powers that be inhibited the ability for motor racing to become a national sport. The government had not provided funding for racing, nor has seen the House of Lords supported it.

While it is unlikely that there was an assured popularity to the sport in Britain, given its limited attention in the mainstream press, there does seem to be a lack of understanding in what motor racing could offer the nation. The British government, from the perspective of the press, Did not understand the prestige motor racing could offer Britain.

Following the 1938 Donington Grand Prix, it was reported in Speeds that it has apparently confirmed to many people that a successful Grand Prix racing team of cars and drivers can do much to enhance the prestige of any country and thereby influence that country internationally. So as has been discussed, nationalism and politics were becoming part of Grand Prix racing in the periods.

This section will now explore the [00:13:00] interaction between Germany and Britain in motor racing. Richard John Betty Seaman was a British driver who raced for the Mercedes Benz team from 1937 to 1939. Given the previous discussion on creating a driver academy in Germany, and they want to have German drivers racing German cars, it’s curious why the German team would agree to hire Seaman.

Whether it’s solely be his talent, it remains unknown. Seaman’s most successful moment was winning the 1938 German Grand Prix. This was the first time a British driver had won a continental Grand Prix since Manchester Henry Seagrave in 1923. Evidence of his British identity was seen through his English green helmet and radiatic ring.

Frequently stated by Simmons wife and friends was that he resisted the idea that politics was involved in motor racing, but as will be shown, this was impossible given the climate of the times. Tensions between Britain and Germany over Czechoslovakia, also known as the Munich crisis in 1938, led to the postponement of the 1938 Donington Grand Prix, which was meant to be held on the 1st of October.

This event produced a situation in which drivers [00:14:00] had to acknowledge the involvement of politics in sport. Both the Mercedes Benz and Auto Union teams had stayed until the very last possible chance. On reflection in Motorsport, the correspondent called Auslander States. The Munich crisis of September last year showed us how the German racing teams were determined to carry on to the very last moments, for they only departed from Donington when war was really imminent.

The Munich Crisis highlights the driver’s opinions on motor racing and the beliefs of remaining apolitical in sports. However, there was a mounting sense that motor racing could not, as they believed, remain apolitical or even continue to occur. During Seaman’s speech to the Royal Automobile Club in London, prior to the Donington Grand Prix, he stated that he is frequently asked why he races German car.

Aside from love of sport, he states, Motor racing knows no frontiers, and it would be a calamity if the political situation interfered with that. This was at a cheers from both the German and British racing drivers. Unfortunately, politics often naturally becomes involved in sport, regardless of athlete desires.

On March 15, [00:15:00] 1939, German troops crossed the Czechoslovak border and occupied Prague. The mounting political tensions in Germany made Simon realize that sport was incapable of being kept separate from politics. As recounted by Mr Neubauer, the team manager for Mercedes Benz, Simon was finding it difficult as an Englishman to carry on working for a German firm.

Seaman recalled the previous motor show in which, at Hitler’s request, the teams had to parade the racing cars at the Reich Chancellery and shake the hand of the Führer. For Seaman, he could hear Stuart Field Hitler’s words about the fearless racing drivers who risked their lives not just for the love of the sport, but for the honor of Germany.

As politics of the 20th Cyprule from sport, Seaman consulted Lord Howe, the president of the British Racing Drivers Club, who himself conferred with several people in government, parliament, and business. Lord Howe’s response was that any personal contact with Germany was valuable, and she maintained.

Eventually, with the Anglo French Guarantee of Poland, and the German repudiation of the Anglo German Naval Agreement, Simon wrote to Lord Howe, As I now hear that Anglo German and [00:16:00] Franco German sporting events are either forbidden or frowned upon by the authorities, I am naturally wondering if the time has not come when I ought to give up driving for Mercedes.

Given the tone of the letters, Simon understood the typical situation. In the final letter from Seaman, there was a sense of disillusionment and not wanting to do Hitler’s racing bidding anymore. Unfortunately, we’ll never know if Seaman was prepared to leave the team as he died at the 1939 Belgium Grand Prix.

He might not need to give up his Grand Prix dreams if there was an English alternion. Reported in a biography written by fellow racer and friend, Prince Choula Jacopon, Simon was driving a German car for the joys of handling the finest racing machines, exiting, and also to add to his own personal glory as he waited in vain for a British Grand Prix challenger.

The British racing community wanted a car to match the Silver Arrows. They saw Germain taking the sport seriously and seeing its value for national prestige. For example, this article at Motorsport on the slide asks for an English Auto Ian. It calls for a [00:17:00] coordinated effort of British manufacturers to follow in Auto Ian’s footsteps and unite under one team.

Prestige in comparison to other nations, especially in fields related to technology, would show superiority. When reported from speed states, perhaps if it was seen that in would losing her laurels in the records fields, it would wake us up to the fact that in these days we cannot afford to ignore any form of achievement upon Rich rests some sort of prestige.

These calls on a British motor racing community highlight the failures of British racing industry, a performance performances order. Him also spoke to the magazine, the Murder between November, 1938 and January of 1939 regarding British bro pre racing prostates. In the letter titled The Opinion of Mr.

Werner, the Director of Auto Union, on the question of building British racing cars dealt with in the magazine The Motor, he regrets that Britain has not been represented at a Grand Prix, for constructing racing cars is, as Werner considers, the foremost of his national duties. At one point he states, in the racing sport, not [00:18:00] only the chivalrous combat between man and man is decisive, but of equal importance are his helpers and his tool, the racing car, back of which must stand the intellectual and physical efficiency of the nation.

This could possibly link back to the discussion on Rosemeyer needing to physically and mentally fit the challenges of modernity. Given that Germany did have a successful racing team, were they challenging Britain’s efficiency in a motorized conflict? This communication between Order Union and the British press does raise the question of motive.

For the British press, they might have been seeking advice on the premier racing teams in the hopes of eventually racing against them and maybe beating. But the benefits from Order Union seem unclear. Another assumption can be that having a British racing team, it would be another team for Germany to beat.

After years of civil arid dominance, other nations were unable to keep up. Having another team to assert dominance over would add to the prestige and national pride in Germany. While politics did interfere with the running of the Grand Prix, the drivers and teams saw a policy of no politics in sport.

This [00:19:00] aspiration seems hypocritical, especially from the Silver Arrows, who from the past years had been involved in Hitler’s motorization plans and propaganda. It does raise the question of choice though, did the Silver Arrows want to be involved in politics and the nationalistic propaganda of the regime, or merely race cars for the joys of racing?

Motor racing did not occur in a vacuum, independent of the social, political, or cultural changes occurring in the 1930s. Rather, it was reshaped and influenced by the climate of the times. It was not only the sport itself, but the fans, racing community, and drivers, which also adapted to the shifting nature of the sport.

As the perceptual civilization rested on speeds, motor racing in the 1930s became entangled with politics and the rising tensions of the periods. And that concludes our presentation for today. I just wanted to thank once again, the International Motor Racing Research Center and for organizing symposium, making it possible for me to present also to Silverstone Interactive Museum and Archives, their research and archives, and obviously to my professor.

David Barry, and for further information [00:20:00] or for references or questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you, Katie. A very nice analysis interpretation. Would your analysis interpretation shifted if you had looked at it more on the comparing with the French or the Italians rather than Great Britain?

I think the Italians were quite similar to Nazi Germany. I think it might’ve been more, the British and French might’ve experienced something quite similar. My research doesn’t extend to those nations just because of language difficulties. And I thought it’s quite interesting, especially with Germany and Britain before the second world war, with just the rise of like different industries.

Ideally, it’d be fantastic to have a look at all of the countries and seeing how they kind of interact with each other. Between France and Italy, there was some events where the French did ban the Italians from racing, which I think was a bit more than what happened between Germany and Britain. Was Richard Seaman a spy?

Maybe. I we can’t find his personal face. It’d be a pretty cool story. [00:21:00] I do know that there was, for example, British motorcyclists who were part of the war office racing in Germany up until the start of the second world war. I guess they’re kind of more spy ish. This is the thing with these sources is that we never know the full extent of his background and everything.

An interesting presentation about the pre war British versus Germany. I wonder what you’d comment about the post war BRM fiasco compared to the resurgence of Mercedes after the war. Was that a parallel kind of situation? I mean, I haven’t really looked in the post war period at the moment. This is just one chapter in my PhD thesis.

I mean, it’d be an interesting thing to look at. So it’s something different to look into. Obviously, German identity changed post war with the divide between East and West. So that kind of taken a bit of a, and different political opinions. I don’t really know, but I’m happy to look into it because it does sound quite fascinating.

I actually was doing a lot of research on French Grand Prix driving in the interwar period. So [00:22:00] I’m so excited to hear more about the German perspective. In your research, were you finding that Auto Union and Mercedes were the high ups real believers in the NSKK and Nazi ideology or were they kind of doing it because they wanted the money that Hitler had on the table?

Do you have any sense of what their feeling was about that? I think it was a bit of both. From the sources that I read, the money really wasn’t that much compared to what they needed. I did a lot more looking at Auto Union rather than Mercedes, because the RFT books are Mercedes written. So I did look a lot, I went to the Auto Union archives and stuff in Germany.

I think there is a belief in it and I think it’s more accommodating to the regime. They do offer like their workers time to go to like the rallies and things like that. And I do think they do see it as nationalistic, and I don’t know if it’s nationalistic in related to narcissism or nationalistic as related to pride in Germany and sort of the rise of German motor racing, especially with like the invention of the car, like showing that’s progression.

You’d never [00:23:00] know if they’re fully supported the Nazi regime, or they’re just kind of doing it. There are certain drivers, and I think a lot of them were more just playing the system, just trying to make the most of it. Especially, I get that feeling with Hans Stucke a bit. I think he’s kind of just playing the political power to kind of get what he wants.

I mean, Richard Seaman really wasn’t that supportive of Nazism. He was more just, I’m here to race. Yeah, you can never really know, but I do think it’s more pride and nationalism in Germany rather than supporting fully the Nazi regime. And I think it would be those in the NSKK that were more like supportive of Nazism and seeing that.

That’s probably the best way I could explain it, but it is definitely something quite interesting to explore. Very nice presentation. Could it be said that the British pursued aircraft development through the Schneider Cup and the Supermarine Company, which led to the development of the Spitfire, which might even have been more significant than what the Germans were doing?

I think that is a possibility. I think there might have just been, yeah, looking [00:24:00] elsewhere. Rather than focusing on motor racing, you look at like the automobile industry in Britain. It’s still kind of increasing in that period. It’s just developing those technologies. I don’t know how the British government were kind of dealing with post Great Depression, preparing for a future war.

They just didn’t have the time to develop a racing car and defend landscape record, but they wanted to focus on more, more preparation, more about the people of Britain rather than a sport, which is fair enough. I think they just had other things to, which are a high priority to maintain in that society rather than build a fast car.

So, fabulous work. It stimulates way too many questions, but I’ll restrain myself to one. Bring your analytical focus to the present day. We suspect that Formula One would say it’s a transnational enterprise now. And yet, of course, drivers are identified by their nationalities. We hear the national anthems, you know, but on the third hand, of course, these are corporations are all globe spanning, not necessarily [00:25:00] identified by the nation state.

So, a simple question would be, What is the place of nationalism in Formula One racing today? That is the entirety of my thesis. I’m looking at nationalism is a part of Formula One. And even with this globalization and transnational guys, the very heart of any kind of sport or anything in society, we do have an attachment to the nation and we do attach nationalism to it.

And so my research, my PhD thesis does start, so I’m actually starting pre First World War, and I go up to the present day, is the goal with different case studies. So even the recent case studies, yeah, we’ve got this massive sort of traveling circus of Formula One going to these different countries and different cities.

But there is nationalism. Like you look at the Tifosi, you look at the people who support Saffron’s fans from that side. You look at the British Grand Prix. There is nationalism. And I mean, even if we’re just flagging it with the national anthem or the flags or the colors. It is still nationalism getting printed.

And I [00:26:00] always get reminded of Michael Billy’s Spanish Nationalism and this idea of like the flag. Even if it’s just silently in the building, it is still reminding us that we belong to a nation. And we know that that’s a nation, we know that we’ve got our own nation. So I do think Formula One is nationalistic and it tries to tender to Islam and it will always be involved in nationalism and politics, it’s the nature of sport and Formula One.

That’s my goal for my research for my PhD. So it’s a few more chapters to go till we get to that point in time. It’s fascinating. Anyone else? Okay. Thank you very much, Katie. Thank you so much. Thank you. And we look forward to hearing from you, uh, in the future, the symposium or your writings. Please keep in touch with us and we’ll keep in touch with you.

Yeah, definitely. Please feel free to contact me with any email. Hearing you talk and watching you. I’ve gotten two emails from members at home asking how to contact you. So. Yeah. Happy to discuss anything related to motor racing and national. All right. They’re both racing guys. All right. Thanks again, Katie.

You [00:27:00] take care. Bye. This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motorsports, spanning continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama, and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The Center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of race drivers, race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. To learn more about the Center, visit www. racingarchives.

org. This episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers. Organizational records, print ephemera and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized, wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future.

For more [00:28:00] information about the SAH, visit www. autohistory. org.

We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Brake Fix Podcast brought to you by Gran Touring Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at GrandTouringMotorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article at GTMotorsports.

So consider signing up for Patreon today at [00:29:00] www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction and Acknowledgements
01:18 Speaker Introduction: Katherine Worth
01:31 The Role of Speed in Civilization
02:39 Nazi Germany’s Motorsport Ambitions
11:11 British Motorsport in the 1930s
13:02 Richard Seaman: A British Driver in Germany
14:58 The Intersection of Politics and Motorsport
20:03 Q&A Session
27:00 Closing Remarks and Sponsor Messages

Livestream

Bonus Content

If you enjoyed this History of Motorsports Series episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. That would help us beat the algorithms and help spread the enthusiasm to others. Subscribe to Break/Fix using your favorite Podcast App:

Consider becoming a Patreon VIP and get behind the scenes content and schwag from the Motoring Podcast Network

Do you like what you've seen, heard and read? - Don't forget, GTM is fueled by volunteers and remains a no-annual-fee organization, but we still need help to pay to keep the lights on... For as little as $2.50/month you can help us keep the momentum going so we can continue to record, write, edit and broadcast your favorite content. Support GTM today! or make a One Time Donation.

Auto Union driver Bernard Rosemeyer emerged as the perfect propaganda figure. From humble beginnings to European champion, he embodied the ideal Aryan male: physically fit, mentally strong, and fearless. His death during a record attempt in 1938 was mythologized as a soldier’s sacrifice, likened to Siegfried of German legend.

Britain’s Absence—and Aspirations

In contrast, Britain lacked a Grand Prix contender. Despite past glories with Napier and the Bentley Boys, the British government showed little interest in funding racing. The press blamed this on a failure to recognize motorsport’s diplomatic and technological value.

British racing remained amateur and elitist, while Germany professionalized and nationalized its teams. The 1938 Donington Grand Prix, delayed by the Munich Crisis, underscored how politics could no longer be ignored – even by drivers who wished to remain apolitical.

Richard Seaman, Britain’s lone Grand Prix star, raced for Mercedes-Benz from 1937 to 1939. Though he insisted “motor racing knows no frontiers,” his career was steeped in political tension. After Hitler’s invasion of Czechoslovakia, Seaman questioned his role in German propaganda. His death in 1939 ended a career that symbolized Britain’s complicated relationship with nationalism and motorsport.

The Call for an “English Auto Union”

British publications like Motor Sport and Speed called for a united national effort to build a competitive racing car. They saw Germany’s success as a challenge to British technological and cultural prestige. Even Auto Union’s director weighed in, lamenting Britain’s absence and emphasizing that racing cars reflect “the intellectual and physical efficiency of the nation.”

Worth concluded that Grand Prix racing in the 1930s was deeply entangled with nationalism. Despite drivers’ hopes to keep sport separate from politics, the reality was more complex. Racing became a mirror of societal tensions, a platform for propaganda, and a battleground for ideological supremacy.

Even today, Formula One retains echoes of this dynamic. National anthems, flags, and fan cultures like the Tifosi remind us that motorsport, however globalized, still carries the weight of national identity.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

Other episodes you might enjoy

Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:

Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-war American Road Racing (2006)
Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed (2009)
Formula One at Watkins Glen: 20 Years of the United States Grand Prix, 1961-1980 (2011)
An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500 (2019)

This content has been brought to you in-part by support through...

Choosing the right Gear for Sim Racing

Eric M

January 15, 2024

Racing games and simulators have been around since the days of Pole Position and the Atari platform. Being part of the original “video game generation” means we were the first ones to see and try it all. For those of us that have stuck with the hobby over the last 40 years, we’ve also had it evolve right in front of us.

2020, the year that changed everything. It not only changed the what we played, but how we played, and what gear we were bringing to events. Prior to the pandemic, exhibition nights on iRacing, Forza, Gran Turismo, and >insert your favorite title/console here< were pretty common. “Run What You Brung” events with people having fun and turning laps.

Despite the lockdowns, “the show must go on,” and once the large media and corporate entities got involved, it suddenly became “cool” instead of “super nerdy” for the subset of virtual racing that was relying on space-aged near-realistic tech to step out of the shadows and become the defining standard for the way we’re racing online today.

Changing the Game.

Companies like Fanatec, Asetek, and Simucube were no longer considered discretionary income-based hobbyist equipment. If you wanted to play with the big dogs, you had to pay. Leaders in the commercial space like Logitech and Thrustmaster, who’ve been making “sim gear” for the masses for ages were downgraded to the toy section of your local big box stores. “No one wanted that *junk* anymore,” I was told.

Only slightly offended, I was admittedly continuing to let the patina settle on my aging hand-me-down Thrustmaster TX 599 EVO 30 + T3PA-Pro Pedal setup (aka “Junk”). But I was also tired of playing racing games with a controller and getting beat by people with proper rigs. So if you can’t beat them, join them, right?

As I’d outlined in a 2020 article, I went back to my roots and starting playing Rally-inspired or WRC-sanctioned titles. And to tell you the truth, I was lovin’ it. My setup was cross-compatible with XBOX and PC, making it convenient to switch between favorites. My guilty pleasure has always been Group A cars at Monte Carlo in the snow.

Calibration? What Calibration?

Thrustmaster calibration options don’t really exist, it’s basically just plug-and-play. The previous owner of the pedals did switch the position of the brake and the clutch, which I could never figure out how to reverse. However, it did allow me to practice my ruddering and left-foot-braking. Meanwhile, I did go as far as to set up an entirely separate system to livestream my races and practice sessions, which included steering and foot cameras, as seen below.

Getting pushed over the ledge.

It wasn’t until I met David Middleton from MIE Racing that things started to change for me. He’d come on Break/Fix podcast and taught us about his eSports + STEM program. We had him back on the show later that season with Robb Holland, and spent time together at Petit Lemans in 2021. We became fast friends, staying in touch frequently. Then came the 100th LeMans. David and I spent the better part of the week together, and up to that point he’d teased me with different upgrade scenarios for my rig. Why I should do this, or buy that; and I’d kept it all at arms length.

Once we got to LeMans, and having a captive audience, David took me around and showed me the finer points of all the different systems that were on display at LeMans. We tried all different combinations of Fanatec, Simucube, Asetek and the like. It was a great diversion during downtime at the track.

There was one evening in particular that we went to a party at one of the campsites where David’s friends had brought a pair of mobile-simulator stations with them from their Sim-Rig business. David’s hype for how good the gear was all came together when he and I went head-to-head doing time trials in Assetto Corsa at tracks we knew: SPA, Watkins Glen and VIR. Never having used a proper rig before but with plenty of folks giving me pointers, I only ended up being a couple tenths off David’s time and if memory serves, I got him at Watkins Glen! (a track that I’ve turned 100s of real laps at).

That night left a lasting impression on me. I didn’t know it could be that good. I didn’t know what I’d been missing. For the next 6 months, whenever David and I would chat it would always devolve into a “What Should I Buy?” scenario. I would continue to drive on my Thrustmaster rig, but it wasn’t nearly as satisfying; I’d been corrupted. Climbing out of my Playseat cockpit, I’d be left saying “this is such weak-sauce,” and the one thing I always lamented about the most, “I could be faster, if I had a handbrake.” With the realization of how numb my setup was with <3nm of force-feedback and soft pedals, the use of exaggerated early apexing and Scandinavian flicks was getting harder and harder when I moved up to WRC-10 and beyond. The Thrustmaster just wasn’t able to keep up.

It wasn’t until we got together for Petit LeMans 2023, and David introduced me to recent Break/Fix guest Trevor Marks from K-53 that it all started to come together.

During sidebar conversations, I started to get Trevor’s opinion on “What Should I Buy?” and not knowing my whole back story and virtual racing history, some of his advice and questions were targeted differently than David’s. Very thought-provoking questions like: “What do you want to get out of your system? What experience are you going for? What’s your budget?” and most importantly “What titles are you driving on?” At that point, I was only really running Assetto Corsa Competitzione (ACC) and WRC-10.

There was a brand though, that kept surfacing as a common denominator between everyone I spoke to: “Well, you could always try MOZA.” Having never heard of them, I started doing my research, and asking more questions. The night before Black Friday, I get a text from David saying, “If you’re gonna do it, check MOZA’s site tomorrow. I hear things will be discounted.” #peerpressure.

He was right, it was time to move on. I waited for the Black Friday sale at www.mozaracing.com to officially hit, and ordered myself a CS R9-V2 wheel + hub and CRP pedal combo.

I had that moment, you probably know it well, cart full of goodies and you’re like “nah… this is stupid, don’t do it” but the devil on my shoulder got the better of me and in a complete never look back #sendit moment, my order was placed. Mind you, I still didn’t have a handbrake. I figured, “let me try out the system and see if I like it before I completely commit.” I have 30 days to return it, right?

The Long Journey Home

I will admit that I was warned that shipping times could be slow. But it took from November 24th to December 31st, 2023 for all of the gear to arrive. The parts came in three shipments, with the most important (the hub) coming last.

After some careful modifications (aka “mcguyvering”) of my Playseat, I was able to get all the MOZA equipment set up. Overwhelmed with excitement and not taking the time to read any of the directions, I fired up ACC to see what this system could do.

Again… Calibration, What’s that?

A quick phone call to David straightened me out. I downloaded the MOZA Pit House software and suddenly everything changed. It began scanning my system looking for titles through Steam, the Microsoft Store and locally installed and alerting me that “automatic baseline calibration” could be applied to each title individually. Shortcuts? Yes, please.

Since I’d been waiting for the gear to arrive, I’d actually added 3 more titles to library: Forza (8) Motorsport, Automobilista 2, and the new EA WRC (aka “WRC-11”). I’ll save my thoughts on FM8 for another article, but I was excited to try my MOZA with ACC and the other two.

Not for trying, but everything felt wrong, especially the pedal box. It was like stepping on concrete and getting maybe 10% brake pressure. My lap times were off, and the gaming experience was just ruined. What had I done?

During my frenzied unboxing of all the gear, I’d overlooked the various springs and dampers that came with the CRP pedals. After searching for documentation on the spring rates and urethane durometers, I found a combination that seemed to work for my aching calf muscles. Combine that with some adjustments through the MOZA Pit House software, I was able to dial-in the pedal feel to where I like it, and most importantly to be able to trail-brake in any game. So this… is Calibration! Gotcha.

How it all comes together… taking it to 11.

Many folks love their Assetto Corsa and iRacing titles, but as I’ve mentioned before, I’m a die-hard Rally fan, growing up during the Group B era; it’s my favorite discipline of Motorsports next to Sports Car & Endurance Racing. Tuning the MOZA for circuit racing is pretty easy. You definitely get more road feel, steering feedback and curb effects. But for the most part, the gear isn’t overly taxed because braking points, turn-ins, apexes and track-outs *should* be consistent lap-over-lap. Not saying that’s boring, but like Trevor had told me, “any piece of kit can turn virtual laps at Road Atlanta efficiently.” But Rally is extremely harsh on the system. Point-to-point races over varying terrain, even running the same stage over and over doesn’t present the same conditions, and it’s part of the charm of the simulation.

WRC debuted on November 23rd, 2023 (the day before I placed my order), and I’d heard rumor that the 11th iteration of WRC was going to be the last for its French developer Kylotonn (published by Nacon) officially under license from the FIA & World Rally Championship. In recent months though, we’ve seen a bit of the big fish eating the little fish, as Codemasters absorbed Slightly Mad Studios (Project Cars) into their portfolio, and then Codemasters was acquired by Electronic Arts (EA). What we didn’t know was that EA was also acquiring WRC from Kylotonn.

The end result of this merger is a pleasant and much needed surprise. EA’s WRC is the best of all worlds taking from WRC 10, Dirt Rally and DIRT creating an accurate, beautiful, and amazing driving experience. With new gear ready to go, it was time to test its limits on some of the most grueling courses in the world. My initial runs proved that I *needed* the handbrake; I couldn’t rely on my old tricks anymore. So I placed a rush order for the all-aluminum MOZA HBP Handbrake add-on.

With some more modifications to the Playseat, I got my handbrake securely mounted and ready for battle. The handbrake plugs into the back of the steering hub and is considered “a slider” just like the clutch, and also includes its own adjustable spring rates and dampers. I left it stock, as I liked the feel right out of the box.

I broke my test down into what I consider an easier stage, Rally Sweden, in the snow. There are some tight “bob-sled” sections throughout the first part of the run while the rest of the 10 mile stage opens up with fast corners making for an all-around great test bed. The handbrake proved immensely useful in correcting the cars, but also being able to negate the Hairpin, Acute, and Square Turns. But it also required rethinking how to approach the turns, and with more practice I’ve gotten a lot better at.

WRC1

The WRC-1 cars (like the Hyundai i20 in this video) are aided by Hybrid technology making them very fast but extremely capable.

WRC2

The WRC-2 cars (like the Polo GTI R5 in this video) are currently my go-to favorite. Maybe it’s a placebo or maybe it’s my bias, but the VW is the best I’ve driven so far; even though the Skoda Fabia is basically the same car with slightly more horsepower.

Group A

The Delta HF Integrale Group-A car has been a standby for me in many Rally titles; and my favorite on courses like Monte Carlo. It’s just quick and agile enough, but in this sim it’s got some lift throttle oversteer that can catch you off guard if you’re not careful. In contrast, the Ford Escort Cosworth RS is much more tame and can be driven mostly with your right foot.

Group B Legends

I haven’t tried all of the Group-B legends yet, but the Audi Quattro S1 and the Renault R5 are very difficult to drive. Maybe with more practice I’ll master them, but as of now I would label them “unpleasant.” The Delta S4 and 037 are much easier to handle despite their sometimes overly twitchy reactions.

As you can see from the videos above, I chose two modern cars, and two “vintage,” all on the same stage of Rally Sweden. The beauty of WRC is that every car is different, from the sounds down to unique handling characteristics and tuning adjustments. It definitely favors the newer cars like the WRC-1 Hybrids (GR Yaris, Hyundai i20, etc) and the slightly older WRC-2 cars like the Polo GTI and Skoda’s. Not all of the Group-B cars are as unruly as the Audi Quattro S1. The Delta S4 is quite manageable, and the game seems to favor Lancia because even the HF Integrale and the rear-wheel-drive 037 are fun to drive without a huge learning curve.

The one thing I really dislike about the game comes in career mode when you’re forced to complete Time-Distance-Rally stages between larger events. These require careful maintenance of average speeds to achieve a perfect, or at least minimize the penalties, for arriving early or late to each check point. This part of the simulation can be challenging but at the same time very boring. Who wants to drive around in a MK2 GTI at 40mph? Not me.

Overall, WRC takes an immense amount of physicality along with that tons of concentration compared to other titles I’ve played. With so many moving components and force-feedback of the MOZA, by the end of a Rally you feel like you’ve just completed a workout. If I could make one recommendation to EA/Codemasters is that they fix the carried-over WRC-10 career mode. It’s still clunky and it would be more fun if they could recreate “seasons” based on a car you’d want to drive. Think about the epic 1989-1992 Group A championship. How cool would it be to run Monte Carlo as seen in 1992 behind the wheel of a Lancia Delta HF Integrale?

Even though the critics at IGN didn’t give EA WRC favorable marks, they’re not viewing it in the same way I am, having in some ways suffered through the previous WRC titles and the DIRT and DIRT Rally franchises. This game isn’t perfect, but it’s a 9 in my book, and I’m hoping the forthcoming DLCs take it to another level. As for the MOZA, if my scale is 0-10, we’re at 11. The build quality is exquisite, the software and calibration is great, the feel is amazing and some of the features are unique. But as David and Trevor told me, when you compare all the columns on your spreadsheet – value for money – the MOZA was the right choice, and I can’t recommend it enough! (or EA WRC for that matter). If you’re looking for advice, don’t hesitate to reach out to either of them for help and guidance, as it made a world of difference for me, talking to subject matter experts.

Shoutouts

First off, shoutout to John Caffese at ProjectMotoring for providing the awesome driving shoes I wear when on my Sim. They’ve always made the experience so much better and more comfortable. Secondly, to Mark Shank for help with the AI generated cover art for this article. Next, to Trevor Marks from K-53 for collaborating with us on The Motoring Podcast Network (and Break/Fix Pod) along with some sound advice. And finally, 99% of the blame and credit to my friend David L. Middleton at MIE Racing; Without *YOU* I wouldn’t be in this mess! – Seriously though, thank you David and to everyone for helping me get to the next level and continuing to enjoy Sim Racing for years to come.

Style Over Substance: The Poser Car Debate That’ll Turn Heads at Cars & Coffee

Don W

January 9, 2024

Style Over Substance: The Poser Car Debate That’ll Turn Heads at Cars & Coffee

What makes a car a poser? Is it the vehicle itself – or the person behind the wheel? That’s the provocative question our panel of petrolheads tackled in the latest episode of What Should I Buy?, where price, performance, and points don’t matter. This time, it’s all about sizzle over steak: kit cars, replicas, and factory-built oddballs that make people say, “Seriously?”

Don Weberg of Garage Style Magazine (above) kicked off the debate with a confession: his love for the Chrysler TC by Maserati. Is it a poser trying to be a Cadillac Allante or a Mercedes SL? The panel dove into the murky waters of automotive identity, questioning whether marketing illusions and badge engineering create cars that pretend to be something they’re not.

From the Cadillac Allante’s subtle SL envy to GM’s notorious habit of cloning its own SUVs under different names, the conversation quickly expanded to include everything from Fiero-based Ferraris to rebodied Beetles.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Mountain Man Dan and Jeff Willis reminded us that kit cars aren’t just garage-built curiosities anymore. Today’s kits range from IKEA-style builds to full tube-frame chassis delivered to your door. Whether it’s a dune buggy inspired by the legendary Meyers Manx or a track-ready Caterham Seven, the kit car world is thriving – and surprisingly sophisticated.

To quote one of our fans “What’s it like having to explain to everybody….No, it’s a fake one? Wouldn’t you rather have a “real” any-other-car?”

The panel reminisced about the Gazelle ads of the ’70s and ’80s, where father-son duos built faux Mercedes SSKs in their garages. They also highlighted boutique manufacturers like Superformance and Beck, who produce high-quality replicas of Cobras, GT40s, and Porsche Spyders – often better engineered than the originals.

Shopping Criteria

Our panel of car enthusiasts debate the merits and challenges of kit cars, replicas, and custom builds. They discuss the appeal of unique, self-built vehicles, comparing them to their more expensive, original counterparts. Featuring insights from experts like Mark Shank, Don Weberg, and William Ross, the discussion covers a variety of cars, including Ferraris, Porsches, and unique builds like the Ultima GTR and factory five replicas. The panel explores the history and modern relevance of these cars, noting how attitudes towards them have evolved. They also consider the role these vehicles could play in the future of car culture, emphasizing the enjoyment and personal satisfaction they bring to their owners.

DON! This is all your fault – what’s a poseur, anyways?
What really constitutes a Kit Car? Is it something Beetle-based, or do Caterhams and Factory 5 Cobra’s count? Are there levels of Kit?
Meyers Manx is a Kit Car, no?
Ever heard of the Maxton Rollerskate (i remember it being reviewed on MotorWeek), basically a Miata turned into an Austin Healey; why aren’t there more kit cars based on Miatas?
What about the DeLorean Time Machines?
The Exomotive Exocet – which we’ve seen at Track Days, is considered a kit, but not the Ariel Atom?
What about all the custom coachbuilders – not the 1920s, but in the 1980s, like Gemballa?
New trend of RE-IMAGINED vehicles. Food for thought: Did Singer start out as a Replica? Or Custom-Coach builder?
Can you “build” a poser car? If so – what would that be?

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to the Debate
01:32 Defining a Poser
03:39 Exploring Kit Cars and Replicas
05:50 The History and Evolution of Kit Cars
08:12 Modern Kit Cars and Replicas
21:26 Factory Retro Cars
31:46 Building Your Own Ferrari: A Frankenstein Story
32:35 The Panari Movement and 80s Car Conversions
33:08 Ferris Bueller’s Influence on Replica Cars
33:51 The Economics of Owning a Classic Ferrari
35:17 The Art of Car Replicas and Clones
39:56 The Mopar Community and Cloning Culture
47:03 The Future of Classic Car Ownership
51:53 Hollywood’s Impact on Car Culture
59:49 Exploring Hollywood Cars
01:00:33 The Viper Defender and Other Iconic Vehicles
01:01:13 The Coyote and Other Cool Replicas
01:02:53 Custom Coach Building: A Historical Perspective
01:03:25 Personal Stories and Unique Builds
01:05:44 The Cadillac Seville Opera and Other Custom Creations
01:07:16 Conversion Vans and Trucks
01:08:59 The 80s and 90s Custom Car Scene
01:19:46 Modern Kit Cars and Replicas
01:24:10 Final Thoughts on Kit Cars and Replicas

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Our panel of break fix petrolheads are back for another rousing what should I buy debate. Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go, where’d you get that? Or what the hell is wrong with you? at the next Cars and Coffee.

Crew Chief Eric: To quote one of our fans, what’s it like having to explain to everybody? No, it’s a fake one. Wouldn’t you rather have a real, any other car?

Crew Chief Brad: And we’re here to answer that very question with our petrol head panel to settle another, what should I buy debate? This time it’s style over substance. It’s sizzle and no steak with the posers, replicas, and kit cars.

Joining us tonight are Mark Shank, our nineties expert, Don Wieberg from garage style magazine, William big money Ross from the exotic car marketplace. Author of Human in the Machine, Jeff Willis, along with Mountain Man Dan.

Crew Chief Eric: And like all What Should I Buy [00:01:00] episodes, we have some shopping criteria. This time, the price, the performance, and the points don’t matter.

Because if you don’t look good, then no one looks good. Our panel of extraordinary petrolhead panelists are challenged to find our first time collector something that will make their friends go, seriously? At the next Cars and Coffee. We are going to venture down a path that has been brought up many times on this show before.

Our fans of What Should I Buy should know that we’ve mentioned over and over again about kit cars and replicas. Don, it’s really your fault that we’re here. What the hell’s a poser?

Don Weberg: Oh, good. Throw me under the bus. Thanks. You know, it’s a good question. What is a poser? Well, I think the first time I brought it up on your show, and I’ve always kind of wondered it, as you all know very well, I’m a huge fan of the Chrysler TC by Maserati.

I have secretly often wondered, if you drive that car, are you just an SL poser? Are you an Elante poser? Are you a Riata poser? Is the Riata a poser? What is a poser? Is it someone trying to [00:02:00] be like someone else? Let’s take the Cadillac Elante, for example. The advertising doesn’t directly go after the Mercedes SL, but it does instead show the SL in the background.

A big, beautiful, bright red Elante. And this little gray SL in the background looking ever so Eastern European. Is the Elante trying to pose as the next SL? And in that, does it make it a poser? Now that being said, the Elante was introduced for the 1987 automobile year. Is

Crew Chief Eric: somebody going to pull his card yet?

Crew Chief Brad: He’s mixing up his adjectives, I think he said beautiful, but I think he meant hideous.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no you didn’t. What he did is he added ER to

POS.

Crew Chief Eric: All jokes aside, when you brought this up Don, we talked about posers. I immediately went in a completely different direction and you have hit on something, you’ve struck a nerve.

It’s a car trying to be something else or a marketing department trying to give you this illusion that [00:03:00] this car will satisfy a need or a void in your life because maybe you can or can’t afford that SL Mercedes or the 7 Series BMW or whatever it is that you’re really lusting after.

William Ross: So we’re talking posers.

Is it just a car or is it the individual that dresses in all the garb?

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t think our lawyers want us to focus on the individuals,

William Ross: especially in the eighties with those Corvette jackets and the Trans Am jackets, the nice silver ones and all that stuff. And any Corvette owners got all his Corvette gear, anything he’s got his jeans hugged up to his tits.

Crew Chief Eric: This is said by a Fiero owner who told everybody it was really a Trans Am jacket, not a Fiero jacket.

William Ross: That’s all I was just wondering.

Crew Chief Eric: I think we’re going to focus on the cars more than anything, but this is going to turn into a really interesting discussion about a niche corner of the collector car market that I don’t think a lot of people spend time looking in because maybe they’re hunting for that rare M3 or that particular 911 or, you know, some year Corvette numbers matching or otherwise.

There’s some real diamonds in the [00:04:00] rough here that really haven’t been exposed and the values around these kit cars, replicas and so on are quite affordable.

William Ross: Oh, definitely. If we do a lot of digging and especially deciding what you want out of your kit car, there’s a plethora of options. Now, obviously back in the 80s, it was either, okay, you put it on a Fiero chassis or, you know, a beetle chassis, what have you.

That was about it. Now, I mean, you have the kit car and with the passing that law too, it’s like they can sell you the whole basic kit and caboodle. I mean, they’re building the whole two frame chassis. And there’s a ton of them out there and they’re doing very well. I mean, you got everything from track day specific stuff that should go to track, but it can be street driven, but then you got those stuff that’s on the lower end.

But I mean, there’s so many options today of what you can get. As a kit car that the quality level is pretty high.

Mountain Man Dan: It’s almost like the Ikea of the car world in a sense, because you basically buy it all arrives on your doorstep and you assemble it by the list of a goes to a B goes to B exactly.

Don Weberg: You guys might remember a print ad from the [00:05:00] seventies and eighties for the gazelle automobile.

You remember that it was always a full page ad or a half page ad. And it’s a great little picture of this. Semi concocted an SSK Mercedes and an MG had a baby and this was it. But the parts are on the floor and there’s a father and a son and they’re working on this thing and they’re in the garage and it really is kind of a great thing, but you know, it was all built on a Fiero chassis or the VW Beetle, those were huge chassis going around.

And then go back to the dune buggy, for God’s sake, we could even bring up the Myers Manks if we wanted to. And how many posers, if you want to call them that, were sprung. From the dune buggy concept. I used to work for a magazine back in the day. We had a trade thing going on with garage style. It was called kit car builder.

Do any of you remember that magazine? Yeah. Learning from them. They had some amazing, amazing coach built kit cars. When you go back and you look at the history of kit cars, et cetera, it actually goes back, believe it or not, to the 1800, when you start researching this stuff, it started in England. There was a guy who literally [00:06:00] had what they call a drop down kit and he ordered a drop down kit and he sent you.

All the parts and pieces to put it together. I think publications like that actually help educate everybody. They educated me. I had no idea that those cars existed. Just having a magazine out there for a kit car builder. I mean, it just shows there’s a big market out there, big enough to support a magazine.

William Ross: If you went down a rabbit hole, looking around and not all of them are going to be online or have websites, but I think it would be shocking. You’d look to see, especially around the world now, you know, you don’t have to worry about just the United States, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of these little boutiques.

Doing 5, 8, 10 cars a year. That’s it. You know, not building thousands that are doing just small things and they’re all over the place

Crew Chief Eric: in preparation for this episode. If anybody Google search, there’s lists top 20 kit car manufacturers of 2023. I mean, as current as today, there’s at least 20 manufacturers out there building something that you could be assembling in your garage or based on a car that you might already have in your stable.

So it’s kind of interesting that it’s a community that [00:07:00] doesn’t. Market itself. Well, it doesn’t advertise as loud as the big manufacturers, but it’s been thriving for a hundred years. If you think about going back to the original custom coach builders, these kits have been around to Don’s point forever,

Don Weberg: fast forwarding to the seventies, the sixties, if you really think about modernism, I kind of think that the Myers Manks was the original sort of kit car because you could buy it assembled or you could buy it where you put it together yourself, you could do it either way.

Mountain Man Dan: That kit alone. There were so many people that went out and replicated it under different names. Nowadays, if you find an actual legit Myers Manks, it’s worth easily, you know, a lot more than the knockoff. There were so many others made that it’s hard to find a legit one.

William Ross: I was just at a show the other weekend and, uh, so there was a legit one.

I was like pretty surprised. It was shocking to see a legit one. Cause I think the legitimate ones, there’s only like. 600 or 700 of them that are legitimate, true Meyers Manks cards. The rest, thousands of them are all the knockoffs. Cause unfortunately Bruce Meyer didn’t do what he was supposed to do. You know, as they said, he was [00:08:00] brilliant getting that stuff put together.

So it was a horrible businessman and he just didn’t the patent wires or whatnot. So he just basically got ripped off and everyone else making them. So he didn’t really make any money on them. But set the trend and like even Don said, I think that’s where it kind of started from there.

Mark Shank: There are absolutely great things to explore out there, even though they fall into these categories, like if we’re talking about stuff, you know, affordability, a self built Caterham, it’s a kit car, it’s a great track day type thing, you know, it’s really cool.

It’s insurable. You’re going to die if it hits anything.

Crew Chief Eric: And another example of has a large proliferation of knockoffs. So officially Lotus had sold it off to Caterham and then they built the super seven from 1961, 62. Two ish up until today and they still sell it as a kit that you can assemble. There’s even top gear episodes about could they build one fast enough as the guys, you know, traverse continental Europe and all this stuff, but then you have all these other super seven knockoffs, all the Honda powered ones, like the low cost, there’s like an arms length of names where they just basically took that simple Lotus seven design and then let’s put an [00:09:00] eco tech in it.

Let’s put this in it. Let’s put a, that in it. We’ll change the two frame a little bit. We’ll call it this other thing. And so. Like the Myers Manks, I think there’s a lot of these little roller skate Lotus sevens running around or quote unquote, you know, knockoff Lotus sevens running around out there.

Mountain Man Dan: If you want to say knockoff vehicles, you’d have to basically say almost every vehicle made in China, because it’s a knockoff of another manufacturer.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a slippery slope, Daniel. True. The aura punk cat, which is a duplicate of the old beetle, you know, stuff like that.

Jeff Willis: That’s like the Mercury Mountaineer. Posing to be a Ford Explorer, right?

Crew Chief Eric: So we like to call that badge engineering. And I like the fact that you went there, Jeff, because that happens all the time and GM is notorious for it, right?

Competing with itself or does it too, but GM is more so than anybody. It’s like, here’s the same thing. Six times we’ll call it, you know, the terrain, the envoy and the trail blazer and the, this and that. And you’re like, come on guys, it’s all the same truck.

Jeff Willis: Then there’s other companies kind of like you were saying Caterham.

That was [00:10:00] one that I remembered. And then there’s, I don’t know if you guys have heard of Superformance. That’s one of my favorite newer ones that they remake the Daytona, the Cobra, the GT 40, the GT, and they do a fantastic job. And so it’s like, besides the nostalgia, sometimes the ones that they make mechanically are actually better than the original.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s true. I’ve heard really good things about the Superformance GT40 as well.

Don Weberg: It brings up an interesting thought that flashed through my head as we were talking about the Myers Manks and using the Beetle as a platform. Do we want to include the old American hot rods in this? Because essentially you’ve got guys in the backyard, in the garage, taking a chassis from something and taking an engine from something, taking a body from something, slapping it all together, kind of got to kick cars.

Just say, didn’t get that name. They got known as the hot rod because of their engine.

Mark Shank: So let’s just argue about what a hot rod is then. Right?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, exactly.

Here he

Crew Chief Eric: goes. I can see where you’re going with that, Don, but I think that’s an episode unto itself, actually talking about rat [00:11:00] rods and hot rods and chop tops and the real customization of thirties, forties and fifties classics.

So I think they’re exempt from this discussion. We’re looking more for like William was alluding to these Fiero conversions. So those are the cars we’re really focusing on.

Don Weberg: And, you know, going back to what Jeff was talking about, Superformance, there’s people doing the Porsches as well. The Beck, for example, is one of them.

The Beck

Crew Chief Eric: Spider is awesome.

Don Weberg: Yeah. There’s a guy in the San Fernando Valley. I forget his company name, but he does some spectacular Coupes, 356s and Speedsters. He does some great stuff. So that’s another one of those Superformance.

Jeff Willis: Could the Hennessey Venom be considered a kit car?

Crew Chief Eric: So the Hennessey is a boutique manufacturer.

That’s a whole different classification of car.

Don Weberg: I think that’d be more like Shelby.

William Ross: Yeah. I mean, by going to Don’s point though, in regards to like going back to the forties and fifties and that stuff, building the hot rods and stuff, you have the kits now for that, that you can buy the fiberglass body factory five.

It’s got a really nice that you can buy putting modern running gear under it, disc brakes, whatnot. Normally [00:12:00] people, you know, they’re buying the Ford, but they put the Chevy motor in it. So you can buy the fiberglass bodies from God, particularly there’s a ton of them out there. They can get them. It can’t be considered a kit,

Mountain Man Dan: but it’s more, I guess we’d go along the lines of the clone because I know the first generation Camaros, they’re building actual steel bodies again.

And they’re even doing the same with a lot of the early Jeeps and stuff where you can get an entire tub. That’s not fiberglass. It’s, they make them an aluminum and steel for the Jeeps.

Mark Shank: Mustangs too. Yeah.

William Ross: A lot of companies got the rights from the factory themselves to rebuild those. Dynacorn is doing the Mustangs.

Blazers, the Broncos, all of these are starting to come back out with just to buy the body and you can start rebuilding it. Like with the Mustangs, there’s a guy down in Florida, Revology, you know, he’s taking the Dynacorns and building the car, but then he’s also doing an electric. So there’s quite a few of them out there that are utilizing those remade or wherever you want to call them.

I mean, they got all the prints, everything from the factory itself and got licensed for it and spot on, bam, there you go. So it’s like, you want to replace some panels and have originally just want to take the chassis and drop a new one on or put it on a new chassis. I mean, there’s a [00:13:00] lot of things you could do with.

That kind of opens up a whole nother can of worms in regards to, I mean, is that considering a kid car then?

Crew Chief Eric: Is that a re pop using a term from your world, Don?

Don Weberg: Now, what William was bringing to the program there with all the Dynacorn, et cetera. So you go to the guy in Florida and you say, okay, I want this, but I want this engine, I want this suspension, I want this, I want this, I want this.

All of a sudden, I think that guy in Florida doesn’t have the marketing cache, doesn’t have whatever, but all of a sudden he’s in the same swimming pool as Singer.

William Ross: Oh yeah.

Don Weberg: Because they’re making a bespoke Mustang or they’re making a bespoke Bronco or bespoke Camaro, Firebird. Whatever it might be, they’re doing this sort of knockoff.

If you call it a knockoff, but it’s the same basic ball of wax. So again, I think you’re getting into custom coach building. I think it’s what you’re doing.

William Ross: No. And like Jeff said, you know, super performance does phenomenal job, but you know, there’s a outfit up Michigan RCR. They also own super SLC, you know, they do a nine 17, they do a GT 40.

They do a nine, six, two. They do a couple of them. Phenomenal work. I mean, you get the right engineers, you got CAD [00:14:00] work, you got the right equipment in your thing, you can build these things. What level do you want to be at? Do you want to spend 25, 30 grand? Do you want to spend a hundred, 200 grand? And what do you want to have?

Don Weberg: One of the first of those, if you want to go to the neoclassics, you know, you had Kline in the 1970s, Kline coachworks, I think it was called, and they had the Kline series one, two, three. Three and four, and they only built about 400 cars from what I understand. If you ever watched the old show, Matt Houston, he drove an Excalibur.

They all kind of looked the same. You had the Excalibur, you had the Clunet, later on you had the Spartan two, which was kind of a spinoff. It had to be called Spartan two, because over in England, they already had Spartan one. Yeah. Nobody even knows about that car, but that was built on a Triumph Herald chassis, I believe that was.

But they all had that same SSK porch kind of look to them. You know what I like about these cars going just specifically to the neoclassics is they are really unique. They are a little weird, but like all of us have been saying, you get that modern running gear. These were built in the seventies. So they’re now classic neoclassic [00:15:00] cars, which is really kind of interesting.

There is sort of a bubbling going on in the market. You see these clinics, you see these Quicksilvers, you see these zimmers, they’re all going up in value. And what’s funny is the zimmers, they were largely built on Cougar, Mustang, Mark seven bodies. You can see the door, you can see the, the C pillar and the B pillar back when they were new, I remember.

Living in LA, they’re not all over the place, but we had a fair number of them running around. I remember laughing at them as a kid, thinking these things are a joke. But isn’t it funny how the joke has turned, and today, here I am, so many years later, looking at these things online saying, you know, it might be kind of cool to have one of those cards, because they’re so weird.

And these were the true, tried, we’re going to put this together. We’re going to try and make a manufacturing. Look, the Kline, they had crystal ashtrays, they had etched glass. They had pinstriping that literally took something like 17 hours to apply to the body. If you see where I’m going with this, these are the same practices, Rolls Royce.

[00:16:00] Preachers, the same level of attention to detail that Rolls Royce and Bentley put into their car. Arguably the best cars, especially back in the day, when you look at that level of detail and you can pick up a mint condition for, Oh, I don’t know, 20, 25, 000. You’re getting a lot of car because that car sold new for roughly 80.

Crew Chief Eric: But here’s the problem I have with that, Don. When you look at those cars, and they all look like Cruella de Vil cartoon gangster cars, right? It’s sort of like buying a conversion van. All this detail, and all this extra, and all this stuff, and this malaise that goes along with it, and yet, it’s worth nothing, and nobody really wants it.

That’s the problem. And I’m glad you brought up the Klené because that was one of those cars for me that actually fit in the Poser category, because it isn’t trying to be a Rolls or a Duesenberg or anything. It’s just trying to be itself. And some of those were based on Beatles and really these Frankenstein chassis where they’ll take them and spin them around and do all this crazy stuff.

So you’re right. They’re oddballs. I

Mark Shank: was trying to [00:17:00] think of this as like, what’s the traditional Poser mobile that might be starting to turn a corner. The H2 jumped out at me. A Hummer? Yeah, the H2.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah, because it’s not a real Hummer. It’s because it’s not a

Mark Shank: real Hummer. Good one. So in the original, back in the day, it was just a jumped up Tahoe.

It was a square box, pretending to be an H1. But now you go back. Would you rather have that Tahoe from that same year or would you rather have the H2? I think you would pick the H2. That’s actually a

Crew Chief Eric: fair, fair point. And those H2s aren’t worth anything either.

Mark Shank: You know, they do have kind of that cool boxy look.

It’s a Tahoe. You can do anything with it. You could do to a Tahoe.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ll counter that, though. Would you rather have an H2 or a Chevy Avalanche?

Mark Shank: Oh, boy. Now, wait a minute, if you’re bringing up the Avalanche. You got to bring up the AXT. I refute the premise. The Avalanche isn’t a pose a mobile. It’s just a sophisticated person choice.

Crew Chief Eric: Isn’t it posing as a full size pickup truck? And what

Mark Shank: the hell is

Crew Chief Eric: it?

Mark Shank: It’s not a halftone chassis. It’s the Ranchero or Eldorado of our time. It’s a classy automobile.

Don Weberg: When I was at [00:18:00] MotorTrend, those things came out and the guy over at TruckTrend had a great description for what that really is. It’s an SUV with a birth defect.

Mountain Man Dan: One way to put it.

Don Weberg: Uh huh. Because if you look at it, it is a Tahoe that had its rear end hacked off to turn into a modern Subaru brat.

William Ross: You can’t use that bed for anything. It’s

Don Weberg: not useless. You put your refrigerator in there and that’s it. You’re done.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ve got two cars I want you to weigh in on. Mark, specifically, since you’re our 90s guy, our expert here, what about the Plymouth Prowler and the Chevy

Mark Shank: SSR?

Man, it is really hard to set aside the hatred I had for those cars as a kid. And I think I was just Disappointed. You know, as a kid in the 90s, I didn’t appreciate who that vehicle was targeting. It wasn’t me. They weren’t putting a V8 in it. You know, they were making something that looked cool. It was a nice drive and it was a cruiser.

It was very literally a cruising car, but I still have a hard time getting over it. Like the Aztec, that’s ironically cool. [00:19:00] It’s like, it’s almost ironically cool, but I don’t know. The

Crew Chief Eric: only time I thought the Prowler was cool was on that episode of Home Improvement, if you remember, where he does a drag race in his Nomad against Bob Vila and the Prowler, and I was like, Oh, that’s kind of cool.

And he got his ass kicked, which was great, but I never understood Prowler’s purpose. So what is it pretending to be?

William Ross: Well, the problem is they stick it as like a 3. 5 or 3. 6 V6 piddly motor. If you’re going to do that, why are you putting that little motor in there? I mean, that didn’t make any sense.

Don Weberg: If you look at the measurement, 3.

5, it’s actually a pretty healthy size V6, but it was only 215 horsepower.

William Ross: Yeah.

Don Weberg: It really had no horsepower. It’s taken right out of the LH sedan, which was the Dodge Intrepid, the Chrysler Concord, the Chrysler LHS, all those front wheel drive family cars that they were building at the time. It was a good motor, but it had no inspirational qualities at all.

It was just a stoic V6 that got the job done. And that was the end of it. Known two people who’ve had those cars. And it’s interesting. Good one. [00:20:00] He’s just a bonafide car guy. He just loves cars. Doesn’t matter what kind of car you wanna talk to him about, he’ll love it. He just wants to talk about cars. And he loved that prowler just ’cause it was so weird.

He never really was a hot rodder that that’s the one genre he never got into. And of course the prowler was trying to be a modern take on what would hot or a customizer build, how would that be done?

Mark Shank: But it’s so obviously failed at that. It was a shit hot rod. They made a rest mod hot rod and didn’t make it.

It just means they’re selling to, like, the middle aged Camry buyer who’s having a midlife crisis. It’s all pants, no trousers, the very definition of the term. It’s like it was purposely built to pose.

Jeff Willis: Or do you think it was maybe purposefully built to be a platform for Hot Rod guys? To put something better.

That’s

Crew Chief Eric: an interesting take.

William Ross: That

Mark Shank: seems like a stretch to me.

William Ross: I’ve never seen a problem where that’s got like a V8 dumped into her. I had me stuffed in everything. I don’t

Mark Shank: know, but an LS fits in all things.

Don Weberg: No, but [00:21:00] I have seen them get supercharged and that helps them a lot. Cause remember the 3. 5 liter, even though it was such a pig in its own, right.

It was overly built. You know, everybody said, why did Chrysler overbuild that engine? Well, in the back of their mind, they had it as a performance engine with a supercharger. That was the whole point. And then ultimately a typical Chrysler. Nah, we don’t want to do that anymore.

Crew Chief Eric: And the reason I bring up the Prowler is because there’s two offshoots here.

Chrysler followed up the, let’s call it failure of the Prowler with the PT Cruiser. We are going to make no excuses for that car whatsoever, but Ford in turn came back with a concept car you can look up online called the Indigo, and it was Even more futuristic than the Prowler, but it’s the same idea. It was that sort of tea bucket for the late nineties, early two thousands.

At the same time, they released the GT 90 concept was the super futuristic version of the GT 40. So there was a little bit of experimentation going on. But at least Ford drew the line in the sand and [00:22:00] said, we’re going to keep these as concept cars and not go to production to an audience that we don’t know is going to buy them.

Don Weberg: You got to think though, too. If there’s one thing Ford is really, really, really good at doing, it’s knowing when this ain’t going to sell. Eric, you and I had this conversation, I think privately about Volkswagen. Building stuff and teasing their customers with it. And Ford does the same thing. They’ll build this awesome car, the GT 90.

Now, ultimately, of course, the GT 90 did turn into the Ford GT, but that whole era right there, and you know, now that I’m thinking about it, I wanted to give the beetle credit for bringing back that sort of retro design, but I’m wondering, did the Prowler beat it? To the punch as the retro, I think the prowler was in production before the beetle, but the thing is that whole era right there, there was such a retro thing going on with everybody.

GM had the HHR, the heritage high roof, which was basically a spinoff of the PT cruiser, you know, which kind of kicked off the whole thing [00:23:00] of, Hey, let’s bring back that retro thirties car. These were all concept cars for some reason, they have. The gumption to put these things into production, Ford came out with the Thunderbird, they came out with the retro Mustang, they came out with all kinds of their own sort of formula celebrating their heritage during that time, you saw all these weird little retrospectives coming out of the woodwork from all the manufacturers.

It seemed like, I mean, even Audi had their little TT. It looks like somebody smashed a beetle, but it was cool. Correct me if I’m wrong, Eric. But there was no other Audi that looked like that in the past. That was sort of its own kid, but it was based on a retro Beetle.

Crew Chief Eric: Originally, the intent was for it to be the Carmeghia.

They were going to come out side by side. There was some politics involved. There’s all sorts of mythology behind the design of the TT and stuff like that. But there’s also some NSUs, which are part of the four rings of Audi. Or the auto union, like the Prince and things like that, that the TT kind of hearkens back to.

[00:24:00] So arguments could be made that there is a predecessor to the TT, but to your point, it’s the sister of the beetle.

Don Weberg: So it did take design cues from the thirties or forties

Crew Chief Eric: back with NSU, etc. The Bauhaus design, right? It’s some classic German design from a previous time. Before

Mark Shank: we go too far field, I think it’s important to realize.

How many people loved the PT Cruiser when it came out?

Jeff Willis: Yep. Oh, people were ravenous. They

Mark Shank: sold that thing at a markup in the first year, and then they were selling it for 150, 000 units a year. Now, it is kind of hilarious how it went from like 100, 000 units to 20, 000 units. Yes. In one year. It was like overnight, bam.

Yeah, they hit a wall. It aged out. I think it’s important to realize how popular it was.

Don Weberg: Did we stumble on number five with factory? Poser type cars or factory retro, whatever you want to call them with the Thunderbird, with the Beetle, with the Mustang, with the PT, et cetera.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think the restomod cars, or as Dan used to write a series on our website called retro relativity, [00:25:00] where he talked about the mini talked about the new Fiat 500 and their origins and things like that, I think the restomod cars.

Are kind of like the hot rods. We need to push them to the side because they’re not attempting to be anything other than what they used to be. It’s a nostalgia play. You want to buy that Fiat 500. You want to buy that mini Cooper. You want to buy the modern version of the beetle. Again, they’re not pretending to be anything that they’re not right.

It’s not a beetle comes out and says, I’m a Scirocco. And you’re like, wait, what? You know, it’s not that sort of thing. So I think they’re exempt from this particular discussion.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah. Some of them don’t pretend to be what they’re named. They just fail at being it.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, there’s that too. Yes. Before we move on and get deeper into replicas and continue our conversation about super performances and Beck spiders and things like that, there’s another car.

I found that it’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Is it posing or did the factory copy the poser situation here? And that’s the CZetta Marauder V16.

Don Weberg: Well, that was nothing more than a Diablo. That was the original. But it

Crew Chief Eric: wasn’t the Diablo because it was [00:26:00] rejected. And then they continued to build it.

Chrysler got together with Lamborghini and built the Diablos.

Don Weberg: If you remember the timeline there. Zampolli, he designed that to be the successor to the Countach because the Countach was such a radical car. Chrysler buys into Lamborghini and says, yeah, you know what? That’s a really radical car. We’re going to send this back to Detroit.

We’re going to have our guys at Chrysler kind of refine this, that pissed off Zampolli so badly that he took his design and started his own with. I don’t know what you call that. What the heck is that thing?

Mark Shank: Posing is about visuals. This just looks like a Diablo with a body kit. So we’re

Jeff Willis: going more towards the Lamborghini posers.

I’ve got one and I think it’s modern, but it’s the biggest, stinkiest turd of the modern ones. Have you guys heard of the Vader? Oh yes. I was going to bring that up. Yes. Oh my God. I don’t know how it’s popular. I cannot stand this thing at all, but it’s based. On infinity G 35 coupe. Yes, exactly. And it’s supposed to look [00:27:00] like a new Lamborghini and they’re at car shows and people are all excited about them.

And I just want to kick it. I hate it.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, what’s funny about that? They even featured it on the first season of car masters with Mark Towley and his team out in Temecula building one of those things. And I was just like, you’re doing what? And apparently Shaquille O’Neal has a bunch of them. So, you know, that makes it cool too.

Jeff Willis: That was in a Batman movie too, wasn’t it? Oh no, Christian Bale was in a real one, not a fake one.

Mark Shank: There was a Middle East supercar that was in a Batman movie that never actually made it to production. Yeah. Greatest product placement ever.

William Ross: It was the villain’s car driving. I can’t remember what it was in.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks like the Lexus LF or whatever else, whatever that one is. LFA, LFA.

Don Weberg: This is actually the first time I’ve seen that car. Okay. You guys are probably going to laugh and say I was typical Don, but I actually kind of like it. I think it’s kind of a cool looking car.

Jeff Willis: The proportions are all wrong. It’s got the cast and camber of the Fast and the Furious guys like that are all leaned in.

It’s just terrible.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m glad Jeff went down the route of Lamborghini [00:28:00] replicas. Because I found one for you, Don, since we’ve now crossed the threshold. Have you heard of a group out of the UK called Prava, which is an Italian word for to try or proof?

Don Weberg: Those are the coolest cars ever made. Tube frame

Crew Chief Eric: Lamborghini Countach for 20, 000.

And it will fool just about anybody.

Don Weberg: Yeah. It makes me wonder how they got away with it. Don Pagetta didn’t stand up with their lawyers and say, excuse me. You can’t do that. Cause you know, if it were a Ferrari, Ferrari would have been all over them.

Crew Chief Eric: And I look at something like that and go, yeah, I could own a Lamborghini knockoff for 20 grand.

Okay, great. What am I going to power it with? Got to choose an engine. Let’s say I’m going to go with a Ford motor or even an LS engine at that point. Why wouldn’t I just buy a De Tomaso Pantera at that point?

Don Weberg: Except is there something to be said about being new versus the De Tomaso? You’re going back 40.

Well, I mean, the newest. Day Maso you can get your hands on. Would’ve been from what, 1987, I think was the last year.

William Ross: 92, I thought it was when they built those last, was it

Don Weberg: 92

William Ross: GT five, whatever it was, T five thunder flares and everything. Mm-Hmm. and all that.

Mark Shank: Yeah. Made it [00:29:00] slower.

William Ross: Very small quantity, but they had the big GT five kits on ’em and all that stuff.

Don Weberg: My dad was a big Pantera fan. I remember listening to a few friendly, heated arguments with his friends who. Were Corvette guys. Porsche guys, or Ferrari Lamborghini guys. I do remember those guys considering the de Tomaso Pantera, a poser in the exotic car world. At the end of the day, it’s powered by Ford.

That’s all it is. But it had the body, it had the design, it had the DNA. It just happened to have that. Ford engine, but what everybody hated talking about was, okay, let’s go back to 1972, the Pantera was positioned between the Corvette and the Dino. That was the price point, or if you want to be a little friendlier and a little more accurate, it was the Corvette and the 911 S.

It was pit right between the two of them. The Dino was a little bit more than the 911 S. The beautiful thing about any of them, zero to 60, quarter mile, Pantera blew them all out of the water. Didn’t even break a sweat. Top end was arguable because they [00:30:00] were right about the same with the 911 S, but it was still faster, but was it faster than the Dino, which was a V6 car, which was pretty incredible unto its own self.

The point is when you knew what you were doing with the Pantera, you had an absolute surgical weapon, but it still had that grassroots blue collar, redneck Ford 351 Cleveland under the hood. And it couldn’t shake that. Is it a poser car or is it a real performance car?

William Ross: That makes me think of another. Town and build car to American power trains.

I think it’s called a TC.

That’s awesome. I think that’s what it was called

Crew Chief Eric: by Maserati. Yeah. Yeah. That one. Well, William, so let me throw one at you, Don and I out car week, looking at all sorts of fantastic vehicles rolling around and we’re in downtown Carmel and rolls by this older gentleman in what I thought was a Ferrari 250.

GTO.

Mark Shank: Oh him.

Crew Chief Eric: And Don goes, no, no, no, no. Look at the back hatch. Look at that glass. [00:31:00] It’s all wrong. The Toyota one? It was a Datsun underneath. A Datsun one. 240, right? And then we saw it later. I took videos of it when the replica shows up to crash the party. I’m wondering in your opinion, as a Ferrari guy, what do you think?

Think of some of those, let’s call them replica classic Ferraris.

William Ross: You can’t fault someone for wanting to have a very small percentage can actually afford the real thing. Especially from the Enzo era stuff, got the millions of dollars to spend on these cars. Everyone’s going to have their own opinion. You know, someone’s going to be like, ah, that thing’s crap.

You know, we’re going to just a wannabe. It’s like, well, the guy only makes, you know, 40, 50 grand a year. And he, you know, he wants to have some fun and he builds it himself. And see, you can’t fault him for that. I mean, I don’t hold anything against those guys. You know, obviously trying to have something that they can’t get, but in essence, isn’t that a form of flattery?

Right. Trying to move something.

Jeff Willis: I met Afshin Benaya, as you know, Eric, and then he turned me onto a guy. I think his name was Peter Jacoby. He originally started with a partial kit. Car that was then Frankenstein to become what was [00:32:00] technically a real Ferrari two 50 GT from 1959, he took a partial kit car, got a real Ferrari engine.

And then the rest of the parts were all real Ferrari source parts and he built his own Ferrari. And so in that case, it kind of becomes like almost a Frankenstein of all of these. Thoughts that we’re talking about put together, you know,

Don Weberg: Now, before William asks you for that guy’s phone number, cause I know that look on William’s face is like, Hey, I could sell that car.

I know. And here you are talking about basically a salad bar, Ferrari, and maybe you’ll disagree with me here, William. But, you know, I remember back in the eighties and the seventies, well, especially the eighties. You had the Panari movement, the Pontiac Ferrari, where you were turning a Fiero into a 308 and those were kind of fun cars.

You know, if you knew your 308s, okay. The Panari looked a little goofy.

Crew Chief Eric: Like I’ve personally seen in Fiero F40. I don’t know, even know what you call that. The proportions are completely wrong, but there are some other ones that look really cool. Like there [00:33:00] was a Fiero three. 48 conversion that I’ve seen, there’s a 512 Berlinetta boxer conversion that actually proportionally looks okay.

Don Weberg: But I think who made it okay to have a car like that was Ferris Bueller. You know, when that movie came out and they had that California replica, anybody who knew their cars and saw that film knew that’s not a real Ferrari, but Damn, if it’s not nice, that is a really nice car. They built three of them for the film, except for one.

One was kind of a basket case. That’s the one that went out the window. But there were two that were really, really nice. If you ever spend any time in their presence, they’re really nice. Oh, they are. They really, really are. And you talk about a guy who, yeah, making 50, a year. He can’t have the real thing, but maybe he can swing something like that.

William Ross: I drive one of those in a heartbeat. You don’t got to worry about driving it. Got a 10, 12 million real fighter. It’s like, Hey, screw it. I don’t care. I’m going to have some fun and drive the shit out of it.

Mark Shank: I love that. We’ve targeted it on the guy who makes 50 grand a year. This hypothetical reasonable, you can make a million dollars a year and not afford the two 50 GT.

Like I don’t give [00:34:00] a shit. You need intergenerational wealth. And you’re like. F my grandkids. I’m getting a GTO

Crew Chief Eric: a hundred percent

Mark Shank: real California

Don Weberg: mint condition. What would that sell for? William

William Ross: short wheelbase, long wheelbase between the two. Cause you’re gonna have, you know, open headlight, close headlight.

You got to have all that little nuances between eight, 10 million into your high teens, low twenties. You know, it depends.

Don Weberg: So there are a couple of bucks,

William Ross: you know, they didn’t make that many in the first place, but then they only made so many in that smaller essence with like exposed headlights and that.

So. It gets it down. So it’s like, okay, that’s the one you want because that’s the least amount of the ones they made. That’s the most desirable. So then it jacks the price up.

Don Weberg: Mark is correct. Then don’t sound surprised on definitely multi generational money. And if the grandchildren, I’m getting myself a Ferrari, you sounded way too surprised.

I’m correct.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. They’re not cheap. You had me up until about 9, 000 and I lost interest.

Mark Shank: So to be clear, I don’t agree on that last assertion though. Right. As this generation dies off. Don’t get me wrong. They’re always going to be really expensive, but the [00:35:00] net present value of 20 million, I don’t think we’ll be there as the generations of people who covet those cars die off

William Ross: 15, 20 years.

It’s going to be interesting to see how it works out.

Mark Shank: It might still be 20 million, but 20 million, isn’t going to be 20 million, 20 years from now. And that’s like tongue twister. If there ever was one.

Mountain Man Dan: That’s a big thing we need to differentiate is the fact some kids out there that are meant to replicate an existing car are done well, but there’s some of them that try and just fail drastically and those are just eyesores no matter what they do.

But some of them that are done well to the untrained eye, they would think it is a Ferrari, Lamborghini or whatever it is driving down the road.

Don Weberg: But you know, if you really get extreme with it, you start going full neoclassic Virgil Exner. Tried to reintroduce the Stutz and Dusenberg during the 1960s and it was a failed attempt.

It was ridiculous that you had these cars that were overpriced, Imperials and Lincolns. I think they were. Again, here we go with, you know, you got the kit car side with the Myers Mans. You take a VW Beetle and you build yourself a dune buggy, and then [00:36:00] you got the other side, which is Virgil Ner coming out with an Imperial and Lincoln saying, I’m building a new stats, or I’m building a new Dusenberg.

You know, they were 30, 000. And then what happens in the late, late sixties, you had a crazy guy who took a bunch of Pontiacs and turned them into the Stutz Bearcat, which was actually wildly popular, hugely expensive. Elvis owned three of

Crew Chief Eric: them. You’re hitting some really interesting points here, Don. And we have to begin to split hairs because now our definition changes.

These aren’t necessarily posers and they’re not necessarily kit cars either. What you described there with the Lincoln turning into the Duesenberg, that’s a replica. And then you’re talking about the studs. That’s a custom coach build from Carrozzeria Mia in Italy that built them on top of those G bodies.

So now we’ve taken an expanded this idea out. So we actually have four different swim lanes to operate in the poser. It’s sort of a catchall. Like we’re really not sure where it belongs. Then you have these replicas. Then you [00:37:00] have the kit cars, then you have these custom coach builders,

right? So

Crew Chief Eric: I think we have opportunity to investigate all of them as we go along here.

What I think is interesting about this particular part of the discussion and people are like, man, why are we talking about 20 million cars and all this kind of stuff, because there’s a juxtaposition here between. Different car communities, the Ferrari community. I want it as authentic as possible. I want the rarest one I could find with the weirdest nuance and all this kind of thing.

But in the Porsche community, replica flies out of people’s mouths. Like you’re ordering a cheeseburger. I got a replica 2. 7 RS. I got a replica of this. I got a replica of that. I got a replica of five 50. I got a replica speedster. I hear it all the time. And I go to a Porsche club event or I go to a Porsche car show, a Porsche Concord.

Is it real? There’s a replica and nobody snubs their nose at somebody that built. A 89, 911 speedster replica. They’re like, Oh, that’s cool. Where’d you find the parts? Can I get those too? I want to build one. The communities are drastically different when you compare these [00:38:00] upper echelons between the Ferrari world and the Porsche world.

Hang

Mark Shank: on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I think in car guy terms, we’re conflating replica with clone. Clone is a specific term, which is I’m taking a base model car and I’m making it the up model version. It’s not a replica. Correct. And this is why the Porsche community doesn’t care. Because, I don’t care if you swap out the hood and some headlights and get rid of the safety bumpers and whatever.

I can put that shit back on if I want to make it original again. You’re not doing anything that I can’t undo. Oh, okay. If I want to make it original. But it’s all bolted and stuff. I mean, Singer, obviously. Oh, okay. The good. I’m glad you went there. Singer obviously is, but for your average RS clone, it’s a clone.

You can unscrew those parts and put the original parts back on.

Crew Chief Eric: But there’s one other weird situation that occurred in the 80s and 90s that I was a little bit more intimate being in the five cylinder Audi world. And there was a company out of the UK called Dialynx, and they [00:39:00] would take coupes, regular Audi coupes or Audi Quattros or UR Quattros, and they would cut them.

They would shorten them. They would change the rake of the windshield by cutting a 4000 roof off and putting it on top and making this Frankenstein Audi Sport Quattro. Between you, me, and the fence post, couldn’t tell the difference. By the time they were all done, everything was seam welded. Everything was beautiful.

They had replacement glass. They had all this stuff. It’s almost to the point where it’s the opposite of building a stretch limousine where you take a Cadillac, cut it in half, and then add 90 feet of additional body. They went the other way and crushed the tin can. So what category does that type of vehicle fit in?

Mountain Man Dan: Would that fall in along with all the guys back in the fifties that would chop the tops of their vehicles? I mean, that’s the same concept they were doing to short. Yeah, but

Crew Chief Eric: they were making another vehicle from that vehicle. In this case. They’re shortening it to make something the factory actually built that way.

So is it a replica? Is it a clone? Is it a Frankenstein? What the heck is it?

Don Weberg: But I don’t think there’s any other community more [00:40:00] interested in or guilty of cloning than the Mopar community. I had a 72 satellite that was dressed up like a roadrunner and that thing could fool a lot of people. But it was back in the early 90s.

Which if you go back to the early nineties in your mind, you’ll remember that clones were very, very shunned. Nobody wanted to talk about clones. What was the great writer said about the original Ferrari GTO of which they built 32 of which 3000 are still in existence today. Well, that was the way it was with the Hemi’s for the longest time.

You had all these guys falling out of the woodwork with their Hemi Cooters, their Hemi Coronets, their, my God, everything had a Hemi in it. They only built so many of those back in the day. And yet everyone had one. As you say, there were all these clones and I agree. They’re not really replicas. They’re clones.

They’re tribute cars.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s a fine line there too, because in some cases, yes, you can build a clone. You can build an M3 clone by doing some bolt ons. What’s the difference between an E36 325 and an E36. [00:41:00] And three, not a whole heck of a lot at the end of the day, the things that make it special are suspension and yes, the engine is slightly bigger.

My point is to build a 911 RS replica and you have a base 911 T, let’s say long nose car and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. It’s the same basic shell. I got to source an engine. I got to source this. I got to source that. I got to do the other thing. If I build a wide body turbo quote unquote clone, that’s not a clone.

That’s a replica. I have to physically manipulate the car to build that out. We had one of those. We bought a 70 T that looked like a 78, nine 30. And by all intents and purposes, it would have fooled everybody. But it had a 2. 2 and then a 2. 7 later. It never had a 3. 3. So everybody

Mark Shank: who put flared 911 made a replica?

I mean, cause that’s the only real body difference is you put some flares on it. Come on. Flares do not a replica make.

Crew Chief Eric: No, but you need the power plant too. You need the transmission. All that stuff was different in a 930.

Mark Shank: Yeah. If you’re going to source an actual 2. 7 liter. [00:42:00] Yes. Cause a real RS. I mean, the motor costs three times as much as your 911T at that point.

Crew Chief Eric: think there’s a fine line between a Xerox copy and a replica.

Mark Shank: Phones don’t typically source a rare motor that is so much more expensive than the actual car. They would build up the motor But then

Crew Chief Eric: again, I can build a 2. 7 with the right jugs and the right stroke and all that kind of stuff out of a 2.

2 or a 2. 5 or another motor, right? So what makes the 2. 7 RS special. It’s not the cams. It’s not this. It’s not that. What is it? It’s an appearance package and it came with a 2. 7 liters. The first one to come with it.

Mark Shank: They made it so arrested really easily and that’s like 75

Don Weberg: pounds. Keep in mind here, we’re splitting hair, splitting hair, splitting hair, and now we’re splitting hair and over semantics.

And I think that’s where this. specific topic, Posers and Clones, or whatever the title of this thing was, really can get ugly because if you really think about the words Replica and Clone. Replica comes from the term Replicate, which is [00:43:00] to copy. Clone is a much more scientific term, but again, it is a clone Of an exact duplicate.

That’s why in science, we say we’re going to go clone a sheep or we’re going to go clone a dog. But we don’t say we’re going to replicate them. A replicate is a mechanical copy. So we’re starting to get tangled up. But when you look at the popularity of the terminology, the Plymouths that I talked about when I was in high school, I was getting kicked out of cars and coffees left, right, and center because the snobbery was so high, they didn’t want some, as they called them back then they called them tribute cars.

That was what they were calling them. Clone was just starting to itch its way through the terminology. And I usually had older guy telling me, we don’t want tribute cars here. We don’t want tribute cars here. So I had to go park on the street.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark brought us something really important. He mentioned Singer vehicle design.

What are they building? Are they building replicas? Are they building clones? Are they a custom coach builder? What are they doing other than bastardizing 964s and 993s at this point? You know, in harvesting these cars, [00:44:00] they’re not building their own car from scratch. They are creating works of art. Nobody can argue that the build quality isn’t amazing on a singer, but what exactly are they doing?

They’ve redefined what cloning or replicating or whatever verb you want to use at this point is.

Don Weberg: I don’t think we can faithfully argue that Singer Vehicle Design is building any sort of a clone or replica or anything. They are doing their own coach derived situation. Look at Celine. Look at Shelby with his Mustangs.

They were more modified Mustangs. Singer Vehicle Design takes it to a whole other level. And they’re doing their own thing. They have bespoke interiors, they have bespoke paint, they have bespoke little air dams, uh, body kits, et cetera. So I think really it goes to more of a custom coach situation, not to throw them in the category of Klinay, but it’s a much more dedicated effort.

Like a Klinay was, a Klinay was the neoclassic vehicle that kind of [00:45:00] redefined how a neoclassic should be. It wasn’t a mess. It was a consorted effort of trying to put together. Yes, pieces from factory cars, but bring them together and create their own unique situation that will set you back 80, 000 in 1977.

Mark Shank: Oh, Singer, though.

Don Weberg: And similarly, we brought up Stutz, the ones that Elvis had. It’s a very similar situation. You send them to Italy, Italy removes the Pontiac body, removes that interior, does all this magic, and they turn it into a very, very bespoke. Is that what we’re calling magic? They were never trying to be bespoke Pontiacs or bespoke anything.

Singer Vehicle Design, who I understand has been forbidden to use the word Porsche in any of their marketing. They can’t call themselves

William Ross: That is very frowned upon.

Don Weberg: They take it to a whole other level. They will come

William Ross: after

Don Weberg: you,

William Ross: trust me. I’m well aware of it.

Crew Chief Eric: Singer’s in its own category, doing these hero cars, heritage cars, tribute cars.

Don Weberg: There’s your number five, Eric.

Crew Chief Eric: These re [00:46:00] imaginations, right? We’re seeing a lot of those these days too.

Mark Shank: A clone is not a replica. A clone is a clone. You’re moving up the skew. You’re moving up the sales scale. So William, back at you, what do you think about Porsche replicas?

William Ross: Fetchment have done right. I mean, they look great.

Again, it goes back to the fact that it’s, look what 2. 7s go for. Who wants it? And again, do you want to drive it? I mean, guy insurance is going to be out crazy. Hey, I’ll build a replica. Say, 99 percent of the people out there really won’t know the difference. Right. I mean, and especially going down the road.

It’s like, unless you really know your stuff and it’s parked sitting there and you start scrutinizing the shit out of it. You’re not going to know. And who cares if you’re enjoying the car? Do it. I mean, for a fraction of the cost, you have gorgeous looking car and you can make those changes to it and update it, you know, do what you do.

I mean, you got the ones where you could take your mid seventies, nine, 11, make it look like the 2. 7. You got the ones where you’re backdating them. They say you got more modern technology in the car, but Hey, it’s looking like the old car. So you have all these different avenues. You can go with it. I have no issue with it whatsoever.

I mean, I think it’s fantastic getting a lot of different choices out there for people [00:47:00] and gets people working on their cars and having fun with them.

Don Weberg: I’m wondering if at some point. Going into Mark’s point that the generations are going to start backing off a little bit of these original cars. Cause they’re just so expensive.

They’re too hoity toity and let’s face it. There are cars out there from the nineties and the new millennium that offer more performance, more creature comforts, blah, blah, blah, that all of a sudden a real Ferris Bueller Ferrari, or even one of the Ferris Bueller replicas, why would I want that? You know, it offers none of the creature comforts of this car.

Replicas, you can add power steering, power brakes, et cetera, cup holders, air conditioning, and nobody cares because it’s a replica. I guess what my point is, I’m starting to wonder if the younger generation who seems much more comfort and performance inclined than originality, will these replicas be the neoclassics, be them 356s, be them Cobras, will they start to go up?

drastically, because this younger generation will start getting its disposable income, and they might want a car that’s a lot [00:48:00] more drivable than a real one. It

Crew Chief Eric: makes 100 percent sense, and it’s right in line with something I was thinking, which is to begin to split hairs on what we talked about at the beginning of the conversation, which is a factory five Cobra.

Somebody mentioned it as a kit car. But in reality, it’s a replica that you assemble yourself. So is it really a kit car at that point? Because the end result of it is not like a Kellmark GT, which is a kit you put on top of a beetle to make it look like a 904, right? That’s a kit car or even the Caterham for that matter.

You’re building it like Legos. You build a factory five, you have a Cobra or you have a Daytona coupe replica when it’s all said and done. So I think there’s a major distinction there to your point, Don, in the modern way of thinking about a kit car, quote unquote.

Don Weberg: I’m remembering specifically one of our old subscribers from back in the day, Ken Miles was his hero when he was in college.

Ken Miles was the man running around with the GT40s and the Cobras, et cetera, kicking everybody’s butt. So that was his big hero. So here he is now, millionaire, [00:49:00] self made, and he bought himself a factory five GT40 in the Gulf livery colors, the blue and the, and the orange. And I mean, that thing was gorgeous.

And so I asked him, I said, you know, you’re probably rich enough. You could have afforded a real golf GT 40. Did you ever think about doing that? And he goes, you know, yes, not to sound unhumble, but I could afford a real one. But he said, Don, when you drive one of those cars and you drive one of these factory fives.

You see why I would never buy an original one. First off, the original ones are much more valuable. They’re much harder to insure. And if you get a scratch on one of those things, you’re going to go straight to hell. But with my replica, I can show up at Cars and Coffee. I can drive up and down PCH all day long.

My insurance company doesn’t care because it’s a modern car. So right there, there’s 70 years old. But you see my point. He’s a 70 year old who decided, Yeah, you know what? I could have the original. But I’m going to have a lot more fun with a factory five. Maybe this is a crystal ball thing for [00:50:00] William. Do we ever think the originals will start to lose their luster because the next generation’s thinking, eh, why bother too much work?

William Ross: Cause a lot of it too, is you can go back, find those older cars. Like it’s the historical aspect up to it. You know, the story behind it, what made them create that car, you know, and the racing history and everything like that. So it’s got all those tangibles to it that really draw you to that car. But I think a lot of these newer kids coming in there, they’re not so much concerned about the past.

You know, they’re more concerned about creature comfort. Hey, how fast can the guard go? How cool does it look? Everything like that. What do people think? I think the biggest issue you’re going to have going forward though, with those older cars, who’s going to work on them and fix them because as those things get older, those people start falling away.

It’s like, well, okay, I can afford and buy that car for whatever dollars. I live over in Ohio, but the guy to fix it’s out in Southern California. So every time something goes wrong, I got to pay three grand to ship it each way. I think that’s going to be the biggest drawback. Cause people would say, why do I spend all the money that you all the headache when doing that?

So why not buy a recreation? That’s got all the newer running gear and like that. And Hey, I can work on it myself, or I can take it up to the guy around [00:51:00] the corner and work on it.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, what’s fun about this conversation here. We are kind of at the midpoint of it. We’re all in this sort of lazy river talking about posers and kit cars originally, and now there’s suddenly all these tributaries that have emerged from this particular conversation, avenues of vehicles that we haven’t investigated before.

Mark Shank: The picture I have behind me is actually a 308 converted into a 288. That’s the Porsche equivalent to me of taking a 911 and trying to, but even the 911s are more similar, right? It’s the same shell. Maybe they didn’t spray it with winterization and they did some other things to lighten it up. It’s so similar, you know, we can’t conflict.

Clone conversation.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark has found the thumb in our hand here, the fifth swim lane. And I want to get to this. These are the re imagined vehicles taking a modern car. They’re not necessarily replicas. We’re rebuilding old cars from scratch, but they’re not the rest of mods like the mini and the beetle and things like that.

There’s a couple other things we need to touch on here. And I think. A few of these hit close to home for a lot of us, movie replicas. We’re going to talk about DeLorean time machines here in a minute, [00:52:00] Don. So get prepared. We still need to talk a little bit deeper on proper kit cars and then custom coach builders.

So let’s kind of dive into those topics throughout the rest of the conversation here. So let’s start with the Hollywood hoser cars. Don, what are your feelings on the time machines as a DeLorean owner?

Don Weberg: Yeah, that’s a loaded question in DeLorean community. That is such a lightning rod of a conversation. Me personally, I think there are too many of them out there and I think they need to stop.

I do now, you know, I get it. It’s a cool car. It made a great movie and I will always love it. For giving the DeLorean a sort of modern cleansing because of that movie, all of a sudden there was a whole new generation who was interested in DeLorean, who didn’t think about the potential ripoff of the British government.

They didn’t think about all the drug crap. They didn’t think about all the drama that surrounded the DeLorean motor company when it was fresh.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that Marty? Holy, that’s a hell of a tattoo.

Don Weberg: I had to show Marty in front of a DeLorean. [00:53:00] You have a tattoo of him on your chest. I do with that. Wow. He is fun

Crew Chief Eric: at parties, Don.

Let me tell you. Oh my

Don Weberg: gosh.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow. Okay. So on that note. Things we would have learned at Cart Week. All I’m saying.

Don Weberg: Wow. So you must be a major Back to the Future fan. I

Jeff Willis: can’t even begin to describe.

Don Weberg: Wow. Why is that?

Jeff Willis: It was my favorite movie. It was, I think, one of the quintessential movies of the eighties and then the trilogy into the nineties.

There’s a lot of car movies, obviously. And I hopefully be able to touch on the 928. Tom Cruise drove into the lake. Risky business. Weird sign. Yes. That’s what I was coming back to. Kind of like William was talking about. Like, first of all, who cares if it’s real, if it’s fake or not? Because a lot of times people can’t tell anyways.

Look at how many DeLoreans there are out there. People lose their minds when they see these DeLoreans with any sort of anything on them that looks like it’s from the movie, let alone one by itself. The value of those is not [00:54:00] necessarily just strictly monetary value, but rather kind of more nostalgic. And that’s sometimes what takes the value up.

Not necessarily like, you know, what the build quality is, if that makes sense. I

Crew Chief Eric: think that Don’s point, even though he reaps the benefit of every time machine that’s made a basic DeLorean’s value goes up, right? Because it’s almost like losing one of the herd at that point in their own right. They’re creating their own subculture, and that’s fine, but we don’t make the same argument about every 82 to 84 TransAm that gets turned into kit.

Don Weberg: Well, I bet.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, how many of them did they make? ? I mean, they were pumping them out like Twinkies.

Don Weberg: The funny thing about the 82, which of course that’s what Kit was, Kit was an 82 Trans Am, but of course to make that show last through 1986 when the show was canceled, they were gathering up every Trans Am they could, every third gen they could get their hands on, and turning them into 82s to act like, you know, an 82 Trans Am.

The funny thing is, 1982 Firebird. All of them, the whole family, there were something like 82, 000 of them built that [00:55:00] year. For 1983, there were 53, 000 of them built. A lot less were built in 83. In 84, it dropped just a little bit more than that. According to DMV records and the insurance something or other, there are still more 83s.

Registered and insured on the road, then there are 80 twos. And the theory is NBC Knight Rider destroyed so many of them that they’re just gone. Case in point, their brethren to the 69, 68 and 70 Dodge Charger. There was something to the, uh. Toon of 13, 000 of them destroyed Dukes of Hazzard. Yeah. I had a hard time actually comprehending that number.

13, 000 chargers were murdered for that show. I don’t know about you, but yeah, it was one of the little 10 year old brats watching it, cheering it on as it was getting jumped over the river, jumped over the police car, whatever. Hollywood doesn’t look at cars as historical or anything. They are props. Pure, plain, and simple.

Mount Mandan. How [00:56:00] many Fall Guy trucks were destroyed in the making of Fall? I mean, that truck was jumping something every episode. It was just like Kit.

Mountain Man Dan: Just the amount of height they were doing on the jumps without proper, like, landing and stuff like that. It was just… Destroying chassis. And they had to modify so many of the chassis to be able to make the jump.

So they didn’t tumble in the air. It’s insane. I mean, you were mentioning with the chargers, the amount that were destroyed. I’m the type of person being a car guy. My daughter thinks it’s crazy. I’ll be watching modern movies and I see a car, older car get destroyed in it. And I’ll tear up a little bit sometimes and she’s like, dad, what is wrong with you?

I’m like, you don’t understand. That hurts me to see that.

Crew Chief Eric: They should have just used the same Mustang they used in the original gone in 60 seconds. Cause they did that whole movie with one car and that car lived on well beyond that movie too. Right? So there’s something that he said about that Ford, but here we are back at replicas and Hollywood cars.

We take the Nicholas cage version of gone in 60 seconds. Everybody wants that GT500 Eleanor.

Don Weberg: You know, that car was mispainted. It was painted incorrectly. You ever hear that story?

Crew Chief Eric: You’ve told me, but tell it for the audience.

Don Weberg: Jeff [00:57:00] Bruckheimer, the producer of Gone in 60 Seconds V2, wanted Eleanor to be glossy jet black with metallic silver.

Racing stripes and trim on the side. And the painter misunderstood the instructions. And he painted the car that I think is called pepper gray. I think it’s the actual color of the car. And he painted the whole car that pepper gray and use the jet gloss black striping. And the story is when Bruckheimer and his team showed up to see the car.

Brookheimer got real quiet. He was just looking at it and everybody around him was, Oh no, this is not what Mr. B wanted. We are all going to lose our jobs, but I guess he was looking at it and he realized sometimes in mistakes, we find perfection. He decided, no, Eleanor looks absolutely exquisite. In this gray.

And then he realized too, the new gone in 60 seconds was filmed in a lot of dark places at nighttime in long beach with very weird lighting. Oh, that pepper gray [00:58:00] showed up beautifully. If you remember when they first went to meet her in the parking garage of the international towers in long beach, it was a dimly lit garage.

And there she was in this glimmering gray, every car guy in the theater, like Ford or not, I think they saw that. And there’s like. Ooh, mama. I mean, that is just, wow, that is something else. So yeah, that’s the story behind where she got her color from. What I was always amazed with was the level of customization they did to that car.

You know, the original Eleanor was a bone stock 73 Mach one in mustard yellow with black trim. It didn’t get much more seventies. It didn’t get much more benign than that mock one. And yet it’s almost like Bruckheimer said, you know what? She is the queen of the show. She is the star of the show. We have got to make her dress up, put on some lipstick, do her hair.

Bam. There it is. The GT 500. Yeah. I mean, that car has been a lightning rod too, because Halicki, his wife, basically sues everybody who tries to make an Eleanor replica. I understand she’d [00:59:00] actually gone after private people who have taken their own. 67 Mustangs and done their own kit and their own version of that Eleanor.

She’s actually tried going after them. Pretty scary. So talk about a lightning rod car, but yeah, an amazing car. Nonetheless, everybody wanted one. Everybody had to have one. I think still today, those cars are very popular. I

Crew Chief Eric: want to ask you guys. Is there a movie car or Hollywood car or a TV show car that you would own?

You know, one of these poser cars? The

William Ross: Batmobile.

Crew Chief Eric: Which one? The original. Okay, the 60s, the Futura.

Jeff Willis: There’s actually a company that builds kits of those. Spike’s Car Radio, he did an interview with that guy who Builds those as kit cars. And he actually got sued by somebody for some reason. And there was some big thing about it.

Yeah. That’s a whole subculture unto itself is those Batman kit cars.

Mountain Man Dan: Funny about the guy that builds those, at least the one company I looked up. So they built the Batman one. They do the green Hornet as well. So they got a couple of things and it’s interesting the fact they sell these kids. It’s basically a fiberglass shell that he sells for you to mold onto your [01:00:00] vehicle.

Mark, would you own a Hollywood car?

Mark Shank: The one that pops up to me when the Viper launched in the nineties, they created a car show to go along with it.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, my man.

Mark Shank: They made an off road version of that. I feel like the whole Baja movement, like they’ve got the Baja 911 and everything else. Like, they made an off road, so it was, you know, whatever he told the Viper to go to off road mode.

Obviously, that was a different car. I would own the off road Hollywood first gen Viper. That would be badass.

Mountain Man Dan: What you’re saying is you need to source a Viper body and I’ll find you a four wheel drive chassis to sit it on.

Crew Chief Eric: First of all, he’s referring to the Defender, which I have referenced many times in this show, one of my favorite Hollywood cars of all time, in a reimagination.

NBC’s Viper, as Mark mentioned, which was Knight Rider. Sponsored by the Chrysler Corporation. The Defender is awesome. I’m right there with you, Mark. I would have the street version of the Defender, right? With the three spoke wheels and all things.

Mark Shank: Gotta go Baja.

Crew Chief Eric: You remember there’s a hovercraft mode for the Viper Defender as well.

So there’s different variants, you know, [01:01:00] depending on what you want to do with it. I

Mark Shank: mean, I was like 13 years old when that show was on. I don’t recall specifically. I do remember when that offered.

Crew Chief Eric: I own the box set. I watched it during COVID and I wrote an article about it. So there you go.

Mark Shank: Oh

Don Weberg: my God.

Crew Chief Eric: Don, what would you own?

I have a guess. I think I know which one would you do the coyote.

Don Weberg: I love the coyote. I think the coyote is the coolest little replica or whatever you want to call it. I know, Eric, you’re running around redefining everything. So I don’t know what to call it anymore. But let’s face it. It was a knockoff of the McLaren M8.

I did like that car. Yeah, I wouldn’t mind having one, especially in a modern version where it’s not built on a VW Beetle chassis, but maybe it’s built on something a little bit more robust. You know, honestly, there are so many Hollywood cars that I love. It’s really hard to pick just one, you know, from the heart to heart Mercedes, as benign as that is.

God, it just goes on and on. The A Team van was really cool. The Fall Guys truck was really cool. The little boy in me that is still absolutely enamored. There’s still got to be Kit. The [01:02:00] original kit. I mean, it’s a Trans Am. We all know I love Trans Ams, but the original kit was just so slick. I mean, here was a car who wasn’t obnoxious.

It was just a basic black Trans Am. There was no striping. It was just sliding through traffic. And it, you know, could do 364 miles per hour. And I mean, that’s pretty cool, you know, and it had an injector seat in it. I don’t think it would do hover mode. If I could live in fantasy land, I would love to have kit.

What was it they said in a Corvette summer about the van Nessa special cars for special people. I knew mountain man bands would like that one. And that’s a great Hollywood van. And so is that Corvette and I’m sorry, I’m in the minority with that Corvette, but I liked it better in the gold than in that ridiculous red.

Crew Chief Eric: Luke

William Ross: Skywalker did

Crew Chief Eric: well. He did. That was a terrible Dotson. That’s all I’m going to say.

Don Weberg: You’d think it’d at least be a Cadillac.

Crew Chief Eric: Now we’re going to cross that threshold into custom coach building, which is not a new concept by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, this was [01:03:00] happening back in the days, 1920s on the Packards.

The company LeBaron was rebodying Packards way back then. And many other coach builders after that, where they would take chassis or reimagine or do all these kinds of things. And so that has lasted the test of time. And we’re, we’re going to talk about some of the brands that were prolific, especially in the eighties and nineties here in a moment, part of the reason this also hits a little close to home for me is I don’t even know how to classify one of my own vehicles.

It was built when I was a kid by my dad and it’s a Shallon 914. It’s a wide body slant nose. So the question I’ve always had, is it a poser or was it just an opportunity to stuff a lot of rubber under a 914?

Mark Shank: I’m gonna make a nuanced statement. The time it was built, it was a poser mobile. I’m sorry, I hate to say that.

Crew Chief Eric: In no way, shape, or form is that kit designed to make the 914 look like a 944. No way was it ever marketed to replace a 911 and say, Oh, you can buy a slant nose 914 to be a slant nose 911. It doesn’t make any sense. I always felt like the [01:04:00] car was sort of ambiguous and I understood why my dad built it because of what he wanted to do with the car from a performance perspective.

It was wider than a 914 6GT replica or clone, because those you can only stuff a certain amount of tire under there. So he went for the biggest, widest kit he could find. And that’s what I ended up with. So what is it? Is that a custom coach field then where all the original panels are gone, except for the doors and one of the hoods,

Mark Shank: having said that it was built for the right reasons, they wanted the performance.

They wanted to do something with a platform. They knew they could get a lot out of, and they didn’t give a shit what people thought about it. But your general car guy at the time. Seeing a flared fendered slant nose 914. So that guy bought the cheapest Porsche he could find and then spent a ton of money on it to make it look cool.

You know that he didn’t do that. He bought the best mid engine German platform he could find to make a fast sports car that had. A ton of gripping would be amazing at low speed, but that’s what the perception not being reality in this instance, I [01:05:00] think as it’s aged, like a fine wine, it’s

Crew Chief Eric: just cool. Well, that’s good.

Cause when I show up in cars and coffee with it, when it’s done, that’s what I’m hoping for is that first they’re going to go, what the hell is that? But on the same token, they won’t turn their nose to it because at one point I did consider selling it.

Mark Shank: For $5. I mean, you, you can’t sell that yet. You gotta finish it.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, exactly. But Don, to your point about snobbery, I approached the nine 14 community and they’re like, nobody wants that thing. Why would I bother with a wide body slant nose nine 14? And I’m like, uh. ’cause it exists. I’ve seen other people on Instagram that have done really cool things with them and made modifications on top of the mods.

They’re already made. And you know, that’s inspiring. That’s pretty cool. So I fall into that small section of this particular conversation. You know, like I said, it hits close to home. What is that?

William Ross: What hell is that Don?

Don Weberg: That

William Ross: is the

Don Weberg: Cadillac Seville Opera for 1978. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the opulent car that you pay 25, 000 on top of the cost of the Seville itself to create a bespoke, it’s just funny because you talked about, you know, [01:06:00] shortening the car and that’s exactly what these guys did.

They took a Seville, they cut it in half. They turned it into a two door and literally a two seater. And they had this crazy Seville. Now, the funny thing about these. Those cars actually sell for a lot of money. I’m blown away by what those operas actually bring in. I saw one a while ago, this one right here, the black one I just showed you.

It’s a Schmidt. I think the one that I last saw was like 43, 000. And I thought really 43 grand for that. So somebody is actually paying pretty good sized money,

Crew Chief Eric: but compared to some of the other cars we’ve talked about, or what should I buy? 43 grand is still below our initial threshold of 50 K because most cars nowadays, if you’re not paying 50 grand to get into them, what are you doing?

Right.

Yeah. If

Crew Chief Eric: you want to show with something different, a shortened caddy, that could be kind of fun. Although those doors look like they’re off a Chevette. That looks hard to get in and out of.

Don Weberg: I just want you to see my favorite one of the group is this one here. This is the Pimp Daddy Special. Oh yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s got a studs front end. Your upper

Don Weberg: lights, your two tone paint. You got like

Mark Shank: Mercedes

Crew Chief Eric: tri

Mark Shank: bar headlights.

Don Weberg: [01:07:00] I don’t know about you, but I definitely hear the theme song to Shaft in my head. I feel like going disco dancing. I’m going to put my collar up for that one. That is my collar up car right there.

See

Mountain Man Dan: when they bought that Cadillac, they sent it off to another company to do it. Certain companies would do that. So the manufacturer wouldn’t honor a warranty, but I know with GM, they had agreements with like choo choo customers with one of the companies out of Tennessee. And there were a couple of other ones that worked out some agreement with the manufacturer where they would keep the factory warranty, choose your customers a lot in the trucks and the vans and stuff like that, where like the vans, they would extend the top to be higher, add the TVs into them.

And then even with the trucks, crew cabs for the square bodies, they did a fold down back seat that became a bed and things like that. There were many other companies that did that, but does that make them kit or something?

Crew Chief Eric: I think those are still in the realm of conversion van and conversion truck.

Mm-Hmm. and all that kind of stuff. But those are cool and they’re sought after.

Don Weberg: Yeah. Yeah. And I think honestly, your conversion van, I think your Audi in this Cadillac, I mean, they kind of fall in that same category ’cause you’re severely customizing [01:08:00] it. It’s a company that is focusing its efforts on creating this Audi or creating this Cadillac or creating this.

Pickup truck. It is a custom conversion. It’s just, you know, you got a lot more flexibility with a pickup or a van because they’re so damn big. You can do almost anything you want with those things. Again, look at Vanessa. You know, Vanessa was a really cool van. It really was, and that was right there at the kind of the zenith of the custom van era that that 1970s era, right around 78, it started to kind of peak out, and then toward the eighties it started kind of going downhill.

But yeah, it, it is a custom situation and again. Does it kind of overlap with what we’re talking about with those guys building the Dynacore Broncos, Dynacore, whatever, and Singer, who is obviously the apex of the entire movement.

Mountain Man Dan: The company is like choo choo. They focus on like the creature comfort type things.

Carroll Shebby, he focused on the performance side of things. So I’m sure there are other companies that focus on other aspects, but there were the two key ones like performance or creature comforts.

Crew Chief Eric: And [01:09:00] then enter 1984 through like the two thousands. And you have companies like Don has mentioned before, Trasco and Zbarro on the, on the Mercedes side, you’ve got Gemballa on the Porsche side.

You’ve got all these other companies that are taking a road car and turning it into something. Else you saw all sorts of kits from all sorts of people. And I’m not talking bolting on Testa, Rosa flares on a Fiero. I’m talking about taking a nine 11 and making it look like a nine 28. You know, those were some of the Gambala designs that I never understood.

But looking back now, you’re kind of like, well, that’s just different enough that it’s interesting, but it’s not what singer’s doing. Singer saying, I’m going to make you the best 1972 nine 11 S. ever created, period, full stop. And then you’ve got Tut Hill and you got a couple other folks trying to do the same thing and that’s fine.

They’re all kind of playing from the same sheet music. But these extremists, do they still exist in the modern times? Are we seeing the next Chisetta or the next Vector or the next whatever built on [01:10:00] something else just crazy out of the box like we saw in the 80s and 90s? And what do we think about some of these 80s and 90s cars?

Mark that have now become very collectible.

Mark Shank: So keeping thematically along, you know, this poser mobile theme of the show, I think there are some eighties examples. I struggle more with the nineties examples that may be my own 40 year old man prejudice for our 30 year old buyer. I might think some of that stuff was just cool because they didn’t live that decade.

Like I did. I struggle to get there.

William Ross: AMG, Gumbella, I mean…

Mark Shank: All of that’s just cool.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s just cool. It’s all low volume and… That’s a wide body Benz, baby. That’s awesome. Low volume and cool. Come on, the 80s.

William Ross: Wall

Crew Chief Eric: Street,

William Ross: lots of cocaine, Miami.

Mark Shank: And Jackknife

Crew Chief Eric: flares.

Mark Shank: I

William Ross: mean…

Mark Shank: The people who bought it weren’t cool.

The people who bought it were lame. The car was cool.

Don Weberg: Mark, by the way, had one of my dream cars behind him. I know, right?

Mark Shank: But for a long time, that was a poser mobile. The six series? Because it depreciated a lot, and [01:11:00] a lot of people picked it up, and they didn’t take care of them. It’s not one today, but in 2000, it was.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark brings up a good point. Is the Lincoln Mark 8, the banker’s hot rod posing to be an M6 or is the M6 trying to be the Lincoln?

Don Weberg: No, no, because the M6 came out way before Mark 8. If you want to pit the 6 series with any Lincoln, it’s got to go up against the Mark 7. And if you read the advertising from the day, Mark 7 made no bones about it.

It had one target in mind, the 500 and the 560 SEC. They were going after that car hardcore. And when you compare the two, holy cow, I mean, it was really funny to read the advertising, but they were neck and neck. The 500, for example, you had the five liter engine. Well, so too did the Mark 7. There was something about the way the doors sealed into the roof of the Mark 7.

The 560 had the window, the glass that sealed up into the rubber. There were all these comparisons. You had four bucket seats, you had power, everything. They were really, really neck and neck, but yeah, Mark VII, [01:12:00] that would be your target. I think that’s kind of why I always liked the 6 Series because obviously it’s the grandson of chassis E3, and that would have been the 2800 CSI and the 3.

0 and the Batmobile cars, et cetera. And I always looked at those cars as so inimitable. They were their own animal. There was nothing else like them on the road. Yes, you had Mercedes with their SE coupes, et cetera, but those were big, grand touring coupes. You didn’t fantasize about cutting through a Swiss Canyon in one of those.

But the E3, you did, they were sporty, they handled, and yet, they were still elegant. You had no problem pulling into any casino in Monaco and having a good time and looking the part. I can internalize the dichotomy.

Crew Chief Eric: I am lame, I have a cool car. Well, just like the Benz that Don showed us, that is a symbol of the 80s.

If you could put jackknife flares on a square bodied car with round headlights. That was the way to go. I mean, you can count them all. The UR Quattro, 944, the M3, the 190E, [01:13:00] that Benz that he just showed us there, which is a, like a 460SEC or something like that. I mean, there were countless cars. It’s like, if you could bolt on a wide body kit in the eighties.

That was legit. That was awesome. But the question becomes, is that the tuner world or is that custom coach building?

Don Weberg: Oh, listen, pal, you want to sit there and talk about custom Mercedes. That’s fine. But you’re in my town now, Miami baby. And there ain’t nothing better than a white Testerosa flying up your butt.

You understand what I’m saying? So you want to come here and deal drugs. I’m the guy to talk to. Okay. Bring it. Kembala. AMG. I got them all right here.

Crew Chief Eric: See, and I feel like companies like Zender and Rieger and Kamei and others that we’ve mentioned before, they sold those kits, quote unquote, so you could take your stock Scirocco or take your Benz or take your BMW and make it look like something else.

That was sort of take it to your local body guy, or you were doing the body work, Bondo and everything in your driveway to realize this vision that you saw in a catalog, but that to [01:14:00] me, isn’t custom coach building like Gambala was doing and some of the other people like singers doing now, where they’re taking the car apart and saying, this is what I think it should look like maybe the last person to do that sort of stuff and correct me if I’m wrong, Dan might’ve been chip foos.

Where he was really taking cars apart in the 2000s and saying, this is what I feel like they should look like.

Mountain Man Dan: Yeah, he did a lot of rendering with his drawings of what he imagined it should have looked

Crew Chief Eric: like. But also building some of those cars, too, to say, here they are.

Don Weberg: Look at the rear fenders on that thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Gull winged Mercedes. The original E Class.

Don Weberg: Look at the rear wing. You got the gull wing doors. This is the ultimate in, I have more money than God and I’m willing to spend it to prove it to you.

Mark Shank: They wouldn’t have started with an E Class if they had more money. That’s a pose mobile. Right there. But AMG never would have made that.

Don Weberg: No, AMG didn’t make that. And actually the funny thing about those cars, they were so bent on themselves building the best of the best of the best. They were really the singer before they were singers. I would venture to say these are the [01:15:00] cars that inspired the guy who founded Singer. Because here you got this Gullwing creation.

And whether we’re talking about the Coupe Gullwing or we’re just talking about. Their standard issue sedan, what they would do is in the day of the 500 SEL and the 500 SEC, they doubled it. They had their own badge and they called it the 1000 SEL and the 1000 SEC. These cars had televisions, they had phones, they had wine chillers.

You let your wildest imagination go crazy, and that’s what these guys would do for that car. And literally you’re talking 150 to $200,000. Above the price of the standard Mercedes. What did a 500 SEL cost in 1985? We’ve got to be talking 60, 000. I would venture to say

William Ross: 60 to 70 grand.

Don Weberg: So let’s say 60, and now you’re going to send it off to this guy.

Who’s going to hack it up, do all this crazy stuff to it. And you’re going to go pay him 150, 000 to 200, 000 more on top of that. [01:16:00] Mercedes wanted nothing to do with them. When that guy got through with it, you had no warranty. You had nobody in the neighborhood who could fix this thing because it was a modern Mercedes and nobody was really working on those things.

Why don’t you take it to the dealer? So the dealer would fix the mechanicals if he didn’t mess with that stuff. But all the electrical stuff, that TV you just put in there, that stereo system, the telephone, I mean, all that stuff rendered that car almost useless. I’ve told you, Eric, we got to have them on your show.

That friend of mine, Sean, he restores these things. He has. 16 or 17 or something like that all to himself. And now he’s sourcing them and building them for people. He says that the people who love these are not only guys in their forties like us, but the younger kids who maybe they saw that old TV show, Miami Vice with dad, and they thought, man, that drug dealer’s Mercedes is really cool.

I’d love to have one of those someday. Well, we’re in the same boat because, you know, we grew up watching Miami Vice and we either fell in love with the Ferrari or we fell in love with the Mercedes or we fell in love with both. And now you got guys like Sean who are out [01:17:00] there actually making this dream come true.

And now you got the 20 something year olds who are seeing the same thing. And it’s almost like a rebirth of interest in that car.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark said it’s hard to kind of identify some of these maybe more. Custom coach builders in the later times kind of thinking past the eighties. And to your point, Don, they were sort of at their apex or at their Zenith there in the eighties, everybody seemed to be coming up with a new way to reimagine these vehicles, whether it was bolt on body kits or like that Mercedes, where it’s chopped up and changed and wide bodied and goal winged and all that kind of stuff.

As I was searching through this stuff, there’s a name that popped up, and I know Dan’s familiar with these. Based out of the Northeast, the Smith Ute conversions for the Volkswagen Mark IV platforms and Audis, where you can turn a beetle into a pickup truck. Yep. And it’s not for everybody, but if you want something different…

Mountain Man Dan: I disagree with the not pretty, because done properly, they look good. What planet are you on? He’s on the mountain, man. Which you will, but maybe it’s because I grew up riding around in an El Camino. I don’t know. [01:18:00]

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I get the whole like Jetta wagon conversion because it sort of looks like the rabbit caddy.

Like that’s the one that makes the most sense. Then again, I’ve seen a couple up close and you’re just sort of like, you know, to Jeff’s point earlier about the Vader, like some of the stuff is just slightly off and you’re like, what S 10 did they borrow this from to make the mold? It doesn’t really follow the body lines.

The other one that I think Don might be familiar with, And they’re still in business today. It’s a Dutch company called Burton. We actually talked about them. Many drive thrus ago because one of their cars came up for sale and RM Sotheby’s auction, and they make these 1920s and 1930s inspired roadsters on top of all things.

A Citroen Deux Chevaux. Every one of them I’ve seen, they’re all the cream family of color. Tan, beige, tacky, whatever you want to call it. You know, it makes it a little less attractive. I’d love to see them in different colors. Are they changing the motor on that thing? Ah, that I don’t know. It didn’t look that hard because I just read Deux Chevaux and I couldn’t stop laughing.

William Ross: I mean, it wasn’t Deux [01:19:00] Chevaux that got 25 horsepower? 30?

Crew Chief Eric: Who’s CV? Two horses.

William Ross: Two horsepower. I guess if there’s a market, there’s people out there buying them, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Now the one at Sotheby’s sold for quite a bit, which I was kind of shocked, I mean, to see it in the five figures, but they don’t make that many of them.

So I guess it’s unique enough there’s an audience for it. Can’t see myself driving one though, that’s for sure.

William Ross: No, I, no, no. There’s always a mark for something. Someone’s going to buy it. It just depends on how many, and what are you going to do with it? It kind of goes back to, I think it was Dara saying, you know, about the prowlers.

The guy was just a car person, but he just thought it was weird. So he bought it, probably didn’t drive it hardly at all. Just sat there, looked at it and got rid of it a couple of years later because he got what he wanted out of it. That’s kind of those things like you buy just, Hey, it’s weird. I think it’s kind of cool.

At that moment, year or two later, like, why the hell did I buy this? And you get rid of it.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s wrap out our thought here on kit cars a little bit. And I want to throw a couple at you that I was surprised were kit cars. And another one, many of you might have forgotten about, but was reviewed on Motor Week.

So I’m going to start with [01:20:00] that one. Something known as the Maxton roller skate. You guys remember that? So that was built on top of a Miata, which at the time was brand new. NA and NB Miata’s were the hot thing then as they are today. So the Maxton roller skate was designed to basically be a modern Austin Healy.

I thought those were super cool. And I remember John Davis talking about them and then testing them on the show and showing how great of a performer they were. I don’t know how you could be disappointed with anything that was. built on a Miata chassis, which made me wonder why aren’t there more kit or replicas or conversions or clones or whatever we’re calling them built on top of Miata’s.

And the only thing that I could find was something called the Bower catfish based on an Miata, but there’s not much else out there. I hate to say it’s kind of weird looking, but I like the idea at the end of the day, another one that we’ve seen at track days. More than once. And it’s not the Aerial Atom, which you would think is a kit car.

Those are actually produced and you can buy and you can rent and all that, is the ExoMotive ExoSet. It’s actually sold and [01:21:00] distributed as a kit car. Pick your power plant, whether it’s Mazda, Honda, or otherwise, and you’ve got this Aerial Atom like vehicle that you can then tool around with, make road legal, and it’s similar to a Caterham Super 7.

And the last one, the one that was really surprising is probably my top pick for, if I had to buy a pick car, which we’ll do a lightning round later is the Ultima GTR. That was sold as a kit car. Don and I actually just saw one recently at car week. It was for sale at the Mecum auction at Monterey Motorsports Festival.

And again, seeing that it’s like street legal kind of miniature 962 LMP1 prototype race car with an American power plant, you know, whether it’s Chevy Buick or otherwise in the back. Why not? I think they’re super cool. And they’re actually quite affordable at less than 30, 000. If I remember correctly. I mean, granted you got a source of PowerPoint, but that’s still pretty good for something that’s basically a full blown race car,

William Ross: you know, how to set your car up and build it right with the right suspension, everything on it, build it up, those things are actually really fast and handle.

Phenomenal structure itself. The chassis is very, [01:22:00] very well construction and the engineering into it just bodes well for putting all the right parts on there and I’ve never driven one, been in one, but everything I’ve read about it, it’s done right. They’re phenomenal cars. And to your point, very inexpensive.

Did

Crew Chief Eric: anybody else come across any, what they thought were kind of cool kit cars, things that maybe people should research, dive into a little bit more. I mean, all of the cars that we’ve mentioned so far that are kits, I found none of them really topple the scale past maybe 40, 000, even the Raider, some of the other stuff, they’re all very inexpensive now, granted, in some cases, you have to source the donor vehicle to start with.

But how much is a Nissan 350Z these days? It’s 20 years old.

Mountain Man Dan: You have to come down to the simple fact. Are you going to go buy the car like we were talking about earlier? That’s 10 million and have a museum piece that you get to look at, but you don’t get to take out and enjoy, or are you going to buy that kid car for a fraction of the price and take it out and run it down them windy roads, let the wind blow through your hair and enjoy it for what it’s meant to be.

Cars are not supposed to be museum pieces. They’re supposed to be driven and enjoyed. So that’s the most important thing to me is it can [01:23:00] be something I look at and don’t understand at all, but if you enjoy driving it, have at it.

William Ross: There’s a lot of cool cars out there. You can copy or replicate or clone. Do it.

You know, you go back into the twenties, thirties, forties. There are a lot of cool things you can do. It’s all personal choice, I guess. And I think they’re putting it on a cheap ass chassis. And that’s why it always started with the Beatles because it was a cheap car. It’s a cheap thing to start with. The premise basis behind a kit car is to have something that you can build very inexpensively.

What’s inexpensive? I can start with, it’s my base, my frame and that, my chassis. Okay, what can I slap on top of that? You know, without having to get serious about stretching the frame and doing anything like that, getting really nuts. I would say cost prohibitive in regards to what you want to be able to do.

Crew Chief Eric: And you know, William, I think you just stitched up this whole episode for us. Realistically, if you’re trying to have your fantasy car, your supercar, your hypercar, and you want to go out there and be carefree about somebody putting a dent in it or whatever, maybe a kit car is the option because they are inexpensive.

They’re built on a car that you can maintain yourself. Maybe it’s something you can [01:24:00] put together for yourself. Our initial question of, would you rather have the real one? Goes back to what you’ve been saying all along is, what do you want to do with this thing? And how much do you really want to spend at the end of the day?

William Ross: I don’t know about everyone else, but the one thing, when I go to cars and coffees, you know, car shows and that, and I see one there, my first question though is, the owner says, did you build this? Oh yeah, I built it, like that. Then you have the appreciation for it, but then it says, Oh, I bought it. And it’s kind of like, eh, all right.

I appreciate it more if the person that has it, they’re the one that built it. They put their blood, sweat and tears and their money and everything into it. And they built it how they wanted it.

Mark Shank: And that way, when they die, they have no one to blame but themselves. Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: Well on that bombshell mark, normally we would do a lightning round and choose from this plethora of cars that we’ve thrown out for our audience.

I think in this case We’re probably going to leave them with some food for thought some things to chew on some additional cars to look at in our show Notes, but from a financial perspective, why don’t you take us home? Why don’t you tell us? Is this a feasible route for people to go if they’re not really willing to break the bank?

Mark Shank: Yeah. I mean, my [01:25:00] personal take on it would be to do something that falls into the category of something that is just unrealistic in no way attainable for you in your lifetime, that’s my own take on it, right? So if you’re doing the factory five. Clone of the GT 40 Cooper, even a Cobra, obviously an original Cobra’s worth of fortunes.

So that makes sense. It’s like, don’t do a Volkswagen bug version of a nine 11

Crew Chief Eric: or the nine 12.

Mark Shank: But at the flip side of this, I would say is given electrification and, you know, the rate at which kids are getting driver’s licenses and how few of them actually get them and how old they are by the time they get driver’s licenses.

And all those statistics are well published and on it’s. completely tanked. Anybody that likes cars, I don’t care if you’re the douchiest Gallardo driver on the planet. You like cars. I like cars. We like cars together. Great. Cool. You can drive whatever you want. If it makes you happy. I almost think if I could put a pin on this episode, I don’t think poser exists anymore because the car [01:26:00] itself is under such threat that if you enjoy your vehicle, it makes you feel good to drive it.

Then I like you cool. You have a vehicle and you enjoy driving it. It’s a hobby You have a hobby with four tires and I have a hobby with four tires and I like that guy

Jeff Willis: here here. Amen Yeah, I 100 second mark’s idea there I think if you’re into any cars whether you got it as a hand me down Or if you paid 60 grand for something that someone else did, we all have our opinions on stuff, but at the end of the day, it’s all, like Mark said, part of the same love part of the same community.

And yeah, there are niche little clubs and different things like that. Just like he was saying, I have respect for you. If you’re in the game at all, not just in the car world,

Mountain Man Dan: but I’ve noticed a lot in the motorcycle community. So where years ago it was like Harley guys, you just look down on guys that didn’t ride Harley’s.

And now it’s like, if you’re on two wheels, come ride with us. It doesn’t matter anymore. Because it’s trying to keep the community of motorsports alive. And it’s growing across the [01:27:00] spectrum with all shapes and forms.

Don Weberg: Yeah. I chime in with everybody else here. If you’re enjoying it, you’re having fun. Jeff said it well, we all have our opinions.

We tend to side with those opinions. Chrysler TC is the best. Uh, then, Hey, you know, that’s, that’s all you got to say right there. You know, Chrysler TC rules and that’s the end of it. I’m thinking to myself, an old movie, 1985. 485, 83, Revenge of the Nerds. Think about it back then, the nerds were the computer geeks and they were outcasts and they were morons.

And, you know, if you wanted to be somebody while you were a football jock or you were a baseball star, you were something like that. My how times have changed because the computer guys have become the mainstream very much. So similarly in the car community, Dan said it well with the motorcycle community, man, if you didn’t have a Harley.

God, if you had a Japanese bike, you better just run for cover because that doesn’t sell around here. Those days are gone. Just different generations have grown up with different, you know, we were exposed to the Honda generation. So we grew up actually admiring what Honda [01:28:00] put out there and holy cow, they’re putting out 145 horsepower in 1.

5 liters. That’s absolute insanity. So we began to appreciate those cars. Yeah, I think the poser mantra, I think it’s pretty well dead now, but it doesn’t mean we can’t have fun and dress up like posers and don’t make outcasts of ourselves. Right?

Crew Chief Eric: So Brad, did we fulfill the agenda? Do you feel better about hit cars, replicas, clones, insert your favorite adjective here?

Crew Chief Brad: Well, first I want to say, I’m going to take an opposite take. Then everybody here, if you are doing a kid card, you can’t afford the original. You suck. I hate you. I don’t want to be your friend. It’s the original or nothing at all.

Jeff Willis: Wow. The gauntlet thrown down. I mean that, that

Crew Chief Brad: of course I’m kidding. No, I second everything.

That everybody said. I say, though, that there are still posers, but the posers aren’t who you think. The posers aren’t the drivers. The posers are the manufacturers themselves. The M Sport, the S Line, the AMG [01:29:00] Inspired, the Lexus F Sport, all that shit. The badge engineering that we’ve talked about before, and ad nauseam in other episodes, that’s posing.

It’s the manufacturers that are enabling the posers. And then as far as kit cars and stuff, I’m not big on the ones. where you cut up another car to make it be something else, especially the old kit cars that are built on beetles and things like that, or the old Fierro’s. I’m now trying to do mental math to see if I fit in a Prova Countach because I’m ready to buy one.

At 20 grand, it’s a bargain. 20 grand, you source an LS motor for less than a thousand bucks, and then you’re off to the races. Literally, and a car that’s going to

Crew Chief Eric: turn heads and people aren’t going to know the difference, and that’s the beauty. With some of this stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you don’t stop, you don’t have to answer any questions.

Crew Chief Eric: saw a kootosh today on the highway. It was amazing.

Crew Chief Brad: You just made that kid’s day.

William Ross: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re all over Instagram.

William Ross: And with that one, you can drive all over and you don’t have to worry about breaking down after like 50 miles.

Crew Chief Brad: True. [01:30:00] Bring your garage or collection to the next level with Don over at GarageStyleMagazine.

com If you want to add a classic Ferrari or Porsche to your collection, reach out to William at www. exoticcarmarketplace. com You can touch base with Jeff at DarkSideSmiling on Instagram, and you’re guaranteed to catch Mark and Mountain Man Dan on another upcoming episode of BreakFix. Thanks again to our panel for another great What Should I Buy debate.

Crew Chief Eric: We often joke that we never come to a consensus on any of these What Should I Buy debates, but this one was extremely challenging. So my vote is, if you’re into these, whether it’s kit cars, clones, replicas, recreations, custom coach builds, or otherwise, I wouldn’t turn my nose at any of them. Go for a drive in them, see how they Feel that experience, it might change your opinion about what they are compared to what they look like.

This is an untapped part of the market that I think needs to be brought under the microscope a little bit more closely to investigate some of the jewels that are hidden out [01:31:00] there, maybe buried in someone’s garage, belong to your dad. been sitting around. You don’t really know what to do with it. Get these kit cars out there to everybody’s point and drive them and enjoy them for what they were intended to be cars.

And if they turn a head or two, or they spark a conversation with the next cars and coffee, well, why not?

We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of break fix podcasts brought to you by grand Torrey motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at GrandTouringMotorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article at GTMotorsports.

org. We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can get access to more [01:32:00] behind the scenes action, additional Pit Stop minisodes, and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators Fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gumby bears, and monster.

So consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without you, none of this would be possible.

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

The conversation veered into badge engineering territory, where vehicles like the Mercury Mountaineer and Chevy Avalanche blur the lines between originality and imitation. Is the Hummer H2 a poser for pretending to be a military-grade H1? Is the Avalanche just a Tahoe with a defect?

Mark Shank, our resident ’90s expert, weighed in on the Plymouth Prowler and Chevy SSR – factory-built oddballs that tried to channel hot rod vibes but missed the mark with underwhelming powertrains. The Prowler, with its 3.5L V6, was all show and no go, while the SSR tried to be a retro pickup but landed somewhere between novelty and nostalgia.

Don brought up the neoclassics – cars like the Clénet, Excalibur, and Zimmer – that mimicked pre-war luxury with modern running gear. Built with crystal ashtrays and etched glass, these vehicles offered Rolls-Royce-level detail at a fraction of the price. Once laughed at, they’re now gaining traction in the collector market.

William Ross added that companies like Dynacorn and Revology are reviving classic Mustangs and Broncos with modern tech, blurring the line between restoration and replication. Are these bespoke builds the next Singer Porsche? Possibly.

The panel agreed that retro-styled factory cars – like the VW Beetle, Mini Cooper, and Fiat 500 – don’t quite fit the poser mold. They’re nostalgia plays, not imposters. But even these can fail to live up to their namesake, as Dan pointed out in his “Retro Relativity” series.

The PT Cruiser, once a sales juggernaut, quickly became a punchline. The Ford Thunderbird and Chevy HHR followed similar arcs, proving that retro appeal has a shelf life.

So… What Makes a Poser?

As the episode wrapped, the panel explored the gray area between homage and imitation. Whether it’s a backyard-built hot rod, a boutique replica, or a factory oddball, the poser label depends on intent, execution, and perception.

So, what should our first-time collector buy to turn heads at Cars & Coffee? Maybe it’s a Beck Spider. Maybe it’s a Zimmer. Maybe it’s a PT Cruiser with flames. Whatever it is, it better make people ask, “Where’d you get that?” or “What the hell is wrong with you?”

Thanks to our panel of Petrol-heads!

To learn more about each of our guests, you can revisit their episodes on Break/Fix, or continue the conversation over on our Discord.

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Jeff Willis

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Daniel Stauffer

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Mark Shank

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Don’t agree, let’s agree to disagree? Come share your opinions and continue the conversation on the Break/Fix Discord!

This content has been brought to you in-part by support through...

Kelly Telfer on Passion, Failure, and the Beauty of Function

Eric M

January 4, 2024

Kelly Telfer on Passion, Failure, and the Beauty of Function

What do the Porsche Parade, IMSA WeatherTech, the Amelia Island Concours, and the Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion all have in common? One name: Kelly Telfer. Renowned motorsports artist, entrepreneur, and storyteller, Kelly’s journey is a masterclass in passion, persistence, and reinvention.

Kelly’s artistic journey began in kindergarten with a watercolor of a Western town so advanced, his teacher accused his parents of doing it for him. By second grade, he was sketching Porsche Speedsters and E-Type Jaguars with obsessive detail. The seeds were planted early: cars and art weren’t separate passions – they were one and the same.

At 14, Kelly and his older brother launched a racing team in Fremont, California, running 40-horsepower VW Bugs on a dirt oval. Too young to race legally, Kelly forged a California driver’s license to give himself permission. That same DIY spirit would fuel his future ventures.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

What started as a hand-drawn racing team T-shirt evolved into a 24/7 motorsports apparel business with 84 employees. Kelly’s clients included Ayrton Senna, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, and Rick Mears. His company printed for Le Mans, Indy 500, and Daytona 24. “Six out of the top ten drivers in every discipline were my clients,” he recalls. “It was unbelievable.”

Spotlight

Synopsis

This episode of the Break/Fix features Kelly Telfer, a renowned automobile and motorsports artist, who shares his life story from humble beginnings to global success. The discussion covers his early artistic endeavors, including drawing in kindergarten and forming a racing team at age 14, to running a company creating motorsports t-shirts for famous clients. Later, Kelly transitioned to a career at Siemens before returning to his passion for art. He talks about his experiences buying and selling cars, the significance of design in vehicles like the Porsche 356 Speedster and the E Type Jag, and the sometimes humorous and difficult journey of emerging as a recognized artist. Kelly also touches on his various projects, including being the official artist for several high-profile automotive events and his efforts to use his success to give back to the community. The episode highlights his philosophies on art, passion, perseverance, and the importance of helping others.

Which came first, the artist or the petrol-head?
There’s so many facets to Art and Painting – How did you decide to pair the two together? What was the inspiration? Was it a race/event, a car, a photograph you saw?
Did you goto school to become a professional artist? If so, what did you study, which styles/masters influenced you?
There’s a new trend of “photo realistic” paintings popping up all over social media; what are your thoughts on these types of pieces?
Special Stories: The Brumos Bahama Mama, Your “Pink Pig” Tribute
Upcoming pieces, projects or collaborations you can share?
Where can someone purchase one of your pieces?

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: The Works Reunion, the Porsche Parade, IMSA WeatherTech Sports Car Championship, Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion, the Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, Hyundai Motorsports, Arrows McLaren IndyCar, Shell Pennzoil, Recaro Seats, and the Mercedes Benz Club of America?

What do all these things have in common? One person, Kelly Telfer, renowned automobile and motorsports artist. And he’s here to share his road to success story with you.

Kelly Telfer: Welcome to Break Fix, Kelly. Wow, when you say [00:01:00] that introduction, it’s like, who is that guy? I want to meet him.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s take a trip down memory lane and walk our audience through your superhero origin story.

So how did all this get started?

Kelly Telfer: So in kindergarten, I did a perspective watercolor of a western town. The teacher sent a big red note with big X’s on it to my parents saying that the parents cannot do the artwork for the kids. If they would have seen my parents do the artwork, it would have looked like a kindergartner, but I did this perspective western town drawing, which I still have at age five.

In second grade, I drew my two favorite cars in the world, a Porsche Speedster. And I focused on the left front fender with the aluminum side molding strip with the gold plated Speedster logo. Also my, at the time, favorite car was an E Type Jag. I love the E Type Jags, but Porsche won out. Let’s fast forward a little bit.

When I was 14 years old, my brother, who’s a few years older than I, we formed a racing team in Fremont, California at a dirt oval track. We were started racing [00:02:00] stock VW Bugs, 40 horsepower on dirt oval. You had to be 16 or you had to have permission from your parents. My dad said it was too dangerous. So I merely forged.

Yes, I forged. I drew my own California driver’s license at age 14 that said I was 16. So I could give myself permission to race cars.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s awesome.

Kelly Telfer: We go racing. And I drew a t shirt. If you fast forward 30 years, I had 84 employees. We printed motorsports t shirts 24 7. Ayrton Senna, Nigel Mansell, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Le Mans, Indy 500, Daytona 24 hours were all my clients, amongst many others.

And so in all the disciplines of racing, maybe six out of the top ten were my clients. It was unbelievable to travel the world and draw race cars on t shirts. Laguna Seca Raceway was a client for 16 years. Rick Mears was a client for about 15 years. I’ve [00:03:00] got so many backstories with so many famous drivers from that era.

It’s just unbelievable. I had 12 incredible artists working for me in addition to my art. And every morning we have an art meeting, and I have one guy, Brad Skadden, that worked for me for eight years, and he’s a great designer in his own right, he does helmets and t shirts to this day. But he can imitate me hilariously where I get out the legal yellow pad and I do my quick sketch for each of our projects and hand it off to an artist.

And we start our day. I sold that at age 44. I’m kind of pretty much done. But what am I going to do? I go to Silicon Valley where I had, I lived, I was born and raised in San Jose. I’d never done anything with Silicon Valley. So I went and got a job at Siemens as a temporary PowerPoint artist. 30 an hour, no chance of full time employment.

Two days later, I’m hired at a huge salary, huge bonus package. My title was Psychology of the Web.

Crew Chief Eric: What does that even mean?

Kelly Telfer: Yeah, well, so Siemens is based in [00:04:00] Munich, Germany. They had 464, 000 employees at that point. And I asked them, I said, just like you, what does that mean? What’s Psychology of the Web?

And they go, well, that, Herr Telfer, is your title. You’ll figure it out. So I went from a temporary PowerPoint artist, 10 years later. Global director of e marketing for one of their eight divisions, networks and communications. Nobody knew I was an artist. They knew I was extremely creative with marketing solutions, go to market solutions, sales solutions, and they wanted to make me a VP.

And I said, no, thank you. So they paid me for a year. I had a meeting, a half hour meeting every week just to check in. I remodeled a house. My father calls it the house that Siemens built. And then I said, no, thank you. And so at that point I jumped off the cliff and said, you know what? My whole life I’ve done artwork.

I’m an expert at computer graphics. I’m an expert at all this stuff. I’m going to go old school. I’m going to take a paintbrush and a canvas. And I’m going to go paint. I’m so passionate about art, so passionate [00:05:00] about cars. It’s just a dream come true. To be able to do work with Porsche, with Laguna Seca Raceway, the racetrack I went to when I was four years old for the first time, to be the official artist with both of these, it just blows my mind.

It’s such a dream come true. And I tell people, you can be an overnight success also at age 60, freaking seven.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s so many threads to pull here and I want to go back for a moment because you said something important. The car that inspired you was the Porsche 356 Speedster. You just had your 68th birthday.

That puts you in the 1955 range so you would have been a little too young for the James Dean era. So I’m wondering where did you come across the 356 Speedster or was it just one of those California car culture things where they were more prevalent there than they were back east?

Kelly Telfer: You know, back then, Porsche sold 25 percent of their cars to California.

So like you said, it was a Porsche world here. My father was a Porsche enthusiast. He couldn’t afford one when we were younger. So he had a [00:06:00] 1952 MG TD. My mom had a 1962 Austin Healey 3000. My parents had three children. So I have two siblings and all five of us would get in either one of those cars and go to Laguna Seca Raceway, go to local auto crosses.

I remember seeing Bob Gerritsen autocross before he started road racing and he just blew my mind. I was probably 10 years old in this car. It was in full color. Everything else was in black and white. The way this guy drove it, the way he had engineered, designed it, even at 10 years old. I’m like, there is so much different about that guy and that car.

I was just captured by Porsche, but I got a great story to tell you. I always worked a lot, so I bought and sold my first VW when I was 12. I bought a 56 VW, it was a ragtop, but the sunroof wore out. So the previous owner cut off the roof and welded on a sedan roof. Other than that, the car was perfect. I bought it for 20.

With a dune buggy shortened VW chassis thing, and I fixed up the bug and I sold it for [00:07:00] 120 to a 16 year old single mother. I taught her at 12 how to drive a clutch in this 1956 VW with her baby rolling around in the backseat. No seat belts, no kids seats. It was probably pretty illegal for me to be driving the car, but not illegal for her having her kid like that in that day.

That’s how it was done, and it had the roller gas pedal and all that. So I taught her how to drive it. Sold her the car made a hundred bucks. I was thrilled, but here’s what I did. I would go down and help the newspaper guy fold his newspapers at four in the morning because I can get the classifieds and then I’d go home and circle all the Porsches for sale.

And then I’d try to make my voice deeper and I’d call them pretending I was older. And I call him and say, you know, I’m interested in your Porsche Carrera Speedster for 1, 750. Aqua marine blue with red interior. So when my dad got home from work, I would badger him. Badger him. Dad,

dad,

Kelly Telfer: dad. There’s a [00:08:00] Speedster.

It’s right around the corner. It’s a Carrera Speedster. It’s 1, 750. So I’d badger him. So finally, He’d go test drive some of them. He ended up with some of those. Unfortunately, not that car. So, you know, my brother and I, when we moved up, we started racing. It was called super modified on dirt, but it was more like a sprint car.

So it was actually a sprint car chassis with a little thing welded on to look like a super modified. So we flipped the car, ruined the chassis, a bent sprint car chassis is worth exactly nothing. I sold it for 200 bucks. I told the guy it’s worth nothing, but it was better than what he had. And he’s an hour away in Watsonville, California on the coast.

He goes, Oh, I can’t pick it up. I’m like, hell I’m selling this chassis for 200 bucks. I’ll deliver it. So I deliver the chassis. Him and I are unloading it at his father’s nursery where he grew all kinds of orchids and stuff. And I looked over and saw 56 speedster under two inches of peat moss dust. I just dropped the frame probably almost throughout his back.

I go, who’s speedster? He goes, my dad’s, but he’s never selling it. [00:09:00] I go, no, no, no, no. You don’t understand. That’s my car. Where’s your dad? So I go over and meet Charlie and I go, Hey, Charlie, how are you? My name’s Kelly. And I go, that’s my car. He goes, I’m never selling it. I go, I didn’t ask you if you want to sell it.

I said, that’s my car. And he kind of looks at me and I said, I have visitation rights. Nice to meet you. Here’s my phone number. If you ever think you’re going to sell it and I’ll see you soon. For every three to six months for six years, I stopped by Charlie’s. Charlie, how’s my car? Oh, by the way, I washed it.

I waxed it. We can’t have two inches of peat moss dust on my car. You could have it on yours if you want, but not mine. I had the combination of the gate. He came home once and I’m washing his speedster out there. He’s like, what the hell are you doing? I said, I’m caring for my car. Something obviously you are not doing.

So I was selling t shirts at a sprint car race, huge night for me, you know, when your business is growing fast, it eats cash, I have shitty credit, I’m broke, I’m growing, I’m doing Dale Earnhardt shirts, I’m doing Richard Petty, I’m doing all these guys, and I’m [00:10:00] broke. The guy comes up and he buys a shirt and it’s cash, cash is everywhere, and he goes, my speedster, I go, everyone get back, I shut the doors in my booth.

I drive straight to Watsonville at 1230 at night. I knock on the door, I go, Hey, Charlie shook his hand and I go, sold. He’s like, what the hell is wrong with you? ? I heard your Speedsters for sale. He sells it to me in 1986 for $12,000, it had SC disc brakes, SC transmission, pumped up SC motors, so maybe 110 horsepower.

And it had a 1970s restoration, so you know they didn’t make all the cool panels that fit right and everything. They put flat panels on the floor and under the battery in the front and everything. The brakes were stuck. I didn’t care. He said, look, all I have is 3, 000 in shitty credit. Can you give me 30 days to pay for it?

We wrote up an agreement and he said yes. And I’m like, you know what? I can’t wait 30 days. Someone else could come there. The cars at that point, they were worth like 20, 000 to 25, 000. I’m like, I just can’t lose my dream car. So this [00:11:00] is unbelievable. This is the way I’ve run my whole life. I heard of a guy in Los Gatos, California, near San Jose, a bank president that was into cars.

His first name’s Bill. His last name is Zunkle. So it sounds like Bill’s uncle never met him. So I put on my suit and tie in 1986, I grabbed a bunch of my artwork that I’d done and I went in with the bank manager. I was sitting there waiting about 20 minutes before the bank opened. I walked straight in there and started taking down their boring, ugly artwork and putting my artwork on the wall.

The manager goes, I had no idea we were changing out to motorsports. This is kind of nice. I go, yeah. Yep. Thank you. So when the manager comes in, Bill’s uncle, he goes, What the hell’s this? It’s great, but what is it? She goes, I thought you proved it. He goes, No. Well, this guy just put up the art and he says he has an appointment with you.

And he goes, I don’t have any appointment with him. Made me wait about three hours. Finally, I walk in there. He goes, What do you want? I go, [00:12:00] The art on your walls is collateral. I have shitty credit. I’m 9, 000 short. I need a check today to go pay off this Porsche Speedster. I tell him the story and he writes me a check out of the bank bank account.

I had to pay 226 a month to get this loan based on my artwork on the walls of the bank. And that’s kind of where it all started, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: So what’s fun about your story is that the artistry and being coming of Petrelhead sort of went hand in hand. They came almost simultaneously. And as you talked about your progression through life and where you ended up, in that in between time from the boy racer to the adult at Siemens, did you go to school to become an artist?

Kelly Telfer: I never graduated from college whatsoever. I attended a local junior college and I attended San Jose State. I got a great art story from San Jose State. It was a worldwide acclaimed watercolorist. artist. I didn’t have any of the prerequisites, but I wanted to study under this guy who’s incredible. Wasn’t motorsports art, but it didn’t matter, his [00:13:00] technique.

So I challenged and got accepted into this class. We had to go out in downtown San Jose and do three drawings of the street, pencil quick drawings. So we do three drawings and then he asked each of us to put them all up. So we did put our names on the backs. I mean, there was seniors and graduates.

students because this guy was so highly acclaimed. And so we go down the list of what do you do? And everyone said they’re a starving artist. And they came to me and I said, I’m a graphic designer. I’m not starving. I’m kicking ass. And the guy goes, get out. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you’re a whore and a prostitute to true artists.

I said, you know, I’m not going anywhere. I paid. I’m here. You accepted me to class. Sorry. You can intimidate anyone else on the planet. You can’t intimidate me. So then he proceeded to pick out the three best drawings on the wall. And he roasted all the rest saying, probably that guy, Kelly, did that one.

Probably Kelly did this one. This one looks like a graphic designer. And the three best, naturally, of course, it’s a fairy tale story. Two of the three best were mine. He turned all red, ripped him up, actually, [00:14:00] threw him on the ground and stormed out of the classroom. So I didn’t really have a great learning experience with that guy.

It’s the only time in any creative class in my life I haven’t got an A. Plus, plus, plus. I think I got a C minus, which I didn’t know existed. I’ve never got a C on anything. And so that was my introduction to professional art school.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s pause here for a moment and explore a pit stop question. We usually ask people on this show, sexiest car of all time, things like that.

And you already mentioned too, the 356 speedster and the E type Jag. And the E type Jag comes up. More often than not, when we talk to artists, though, we want to explore this in a deeper way, because you have a more critical eye. You’re looking at the design. You’re looking at the flow and the body line.

Some of us just look at the car and go, man, that’s gorgeous. And it’s just a subjective thing. So I want your more professional opinion to say what makes. The Jag is so sexy. What makes the 356 such a beautiful car? And maybe other vehicles like a 250 pontoon [00:15:00] fender Testarossa or something else of the period, where do you go with those designs and why do you appreciate them so much?

Kelly Telfer: Here’s the way I think any great design goes. Any of the great designers follow their own passion. They beat to their own drum. You don’t see in the Jag E type a copy of a car and you don’t see it, you know, maybe a little better or something. You see a brilliant, almost clean sheet. Incredible design. The 356 is actually an incredible, and even amazingly so, more practical design.

The variations it came in, you know, in 1951, Porsche won their class at Le Mans in number 46, the one that Gary Emery and his team restored. It won first in class in 1100 cc’s or less. Now, could you imagine racing at Le Mans? I’d assume it’s got what on a good day 32 horsepower if you’re lucky to the rear wheels Could you imagine 24 hours sitting in that thing with 32 horsepower?

And then if you fast forward [00:16:00] to some of the really outrageous Carrera based porsches all 356 models to me that design was so flexible So incredible and also the way they continued the design with the 911. It’s a succession design. Second to none. The 911 is the car that’s been the longest in production in the world.

Today’s Porsche, you see the 911, albeit they’re 43 inches wider now and 4, 000 pounds more than the original 901 that Bootsy Porsche designed in 1963. So you ask me what’s great about design. It’s a combination of function and design. When you drive an E type Jag, the torque of the motor, the kind of clunkiness of that shifter.

Enveloped in this gorgeous, ridiculous long body. It’s an incredible feeling when you hop in a three 56 and the door clunks as you close it. It’s not the clunk of metal hitting metal, like a 62 Cadillac convertible. It’s the clunk of the rubber that holds the door open in case of [00:17:00] breeze comes along. So it won’t shut on your leg.

It is the coolest feeling in the world on the cars that are original and ripe to shut that door. So to me, design is really deep in terms of both function, design, and originality, and it’s based around passion.

Crew Chief Eric: So is there a point at which you think maybe design tapered off? Is there an end of an era? Is there a particular decade that you don’t like as much as others?

And there’s arguments to be made about how food and music have also influenced the design of vehicles and how they’ve perpetuated each other in some ways, and you have that doo wop Dolce Vita time of the fifties and sixties and then the disco era, and then the eighties with the analog into transition of digital and things like that.

So where do you think the designs just dropped off and they stopped being about the passion and more about cheating the wind?

Kelly Telfer: Let me answer that in a little different way. My first car, when I was legal, in other words, 16 years old, I think I probably owned at least 30 before then that I bought and sold my first legal car.

I paid 200 for, I bought it from a friend of [00:18:00] the family. They were the second owner they’d had it since it was a year old. It was 1962 car. It was a kind of a off white and a salmon pink bottom. It was a 23 window VW bus sunroof deluxe. I paid 200 bucks for it. What I did is I took out all the extruded aluminum that protected went around the back windows.

Really rare. I took all that junk off the original panels. I sprayed the inside of the windows with flat black paint. I couldn’t afford curtains and that sprayed over this really nice, beautiful patina and original interior of the headliner and the fuzzy stuff around the windows. We put a brick on the gas pedal.

Four or five of us are going skiing in Lake Tahoe. We’re driving up the mountain, so this thing’s floored. It’s a 40 horse on a good day. Brick on the gas pedal, tied two ropes to the steering wheel, which is really flat. And I climbed all the way to the back, laid on the rear engine. cover behind the back seat and with two ropes I steered and all my friends that were going [00:19:00] with me we had the sunroof open even though it was snowing and they’re sitting up on the sunroof there was nobody in the bw bus driving down the road I basically totally ruined that thing drove it for four years, sold it for 800 bucks.

I mean, I made a killing. It was ridiculous. That VW bus today sells for 200, 000. It’s not good looking. It does not stop. It does not go, and it does not steer in any direction you want to steer. If you’re driving down the freeway in a wind, you have the steering wheel halfway turned. If you’re a rookie VW bus owner, When you go under an overpass, if you don’t correct the steering wheel because you’re steering against the wind, you will veer off and hit the side of the freeway.

My point is, that’s the world’s worst car. Maybe other than a Borgward. I apologize if people are Borgward fanatics. Or a Trabant. I want to get one, the East German car, that little two stroke. I gotta have, if anyone’s listening, I want one really bad. So [00:20:00] anyway, that’s the worst car in the world, and people love them.

So what I’m saying is your memory fucks with you because there’s no way in hell that could be a great car. But everybody remembers all the great things they did in them, all the fun, all the this. You know what they don’t remember? How many times were you on the side of the road where you just blew the number three cylinder, you cooked it, or you put a hole in the case?

And you’re calling the tow truck or your friend and you’re towing it home again or that stupid hard wire before they went to a stranded throttle cable back at the 28 P. I. C. T. So like single little junky carburetor that Volkswagen had, it would bend and then break. So I had to get a link out of my snow chains on the side of the road in the dark on a mountain road and put that link in there to have a gas pedal.

And then, of course, with the weight of the snow chain link, it’s held forward. So I’m using the key to turn it off and on and driving. It’s the worst experience on the planet. Who wants one of those? Everybody. So now you go back to what’s a great era in design. People say the fifties, have [00:21:00] you ever driven a 57 Chevy?

I mean, there are POS. Now, a good friend of mine, Paul Newman, well, actually, the actor was a good acquaintance of mine, but this is Paul Newman, the fabricator. Paul Newman and Doug Draeger, they made race cars that were phenomenal. Rick Mears raced in those single seat buggies. Gary Knoyer raced and won at Pike’s Peak in a Newman Draeger car.

Bruce Canipa finished second in his Porsche 911. I think it was turbocharged that’s in his showroom today that Neumann Drager built. Well, Paul Neumann, he was the first guy to do this. He took C4, 19 whatever, Corvette suspension, and he made a whole new frame for a 57 Chevy with all Corvette suspension.

Everything stock bolted on. The famous Highway 17 from Santa Cruz to Los Gatos or San Jose in the Bay Area. He drove it over that road, not speeding, but at CHP, a highway patrol pulled him over and said, your brake lights aren’t working. He goes, huh? No, they’re working. And they tested him. He goes, well, you never hit your brakes all the way over 17.

Well, no, I don’t need to. This car handles. That’s a great [00:22:00] car. But if you want to think of all the good times and all that stuff. I don’t know

Crew Chief Eric: the inverse of that question, especially from an artist’s perspective. Is there such thing as an ugly car? And if so, what is the ugliest car in your opinion?

Kelly Telfer: Well, you know, I think I’m going to try to buy every single one of them because it’s going to do a VW bus thing in 30 years.

But whatever that Pontiac van thing with a window under the rear spoiler,

Crew Chief Eric: the Aztec.

Kelly Telfer: Oh my God. That’s the worst car on the planet. First off, American cars were 10, 15, 20 years behind on any kind of chassis, motor injection, carburetor, whatever. And then you put the world’s ugliest. body on it. There is no excuse for that.

None. Zero.

Crew Chief Eric: Would it surprise you if I told you that the gentleman that designed the Aztec is the same gentleman that designed the C7 Corvette?

Kelly Telfer: You know, it wouldn’t surprise me because greatness comes from many failures. You know, the only way you can be great at anything is to fail. There is this [00:23:00] great, great guy from the 50s, Zig Ziglar.

Zig Ziglar had a great saying. He said, people tell their kids, don’t lie, don’t lie. And then the phone rings and someone’s asking for him. Tell him I’m not home. It just cracks me up. So you have to be willing to go out there. If you think that Picasso only did incredible art that everyone likes. There’s so much garbage that he produced.

I’ll tell you what, I’d love to own any one of those pieces of garbage now. And I’m sure some real hoity toity art guy’s gonna tell me, well, there is no garbage. I’m like, absolutely there’s garbage. I have some incredibly rare collectible books on Picasso on pieces of art no one’s ever seen, and that’s why.

They’re garbage. And you know that’s okay. The guy was brilliant. He moved through it. He was passionate. He created his own avenue. I’ve done some horrible art. Oh my God, it’s incredibly bad. When I first started doing art, I called it mortgage art. Firmly believe that you wanna do artwork by knowledge, not by ignorance.

So I know a lot of different [00:24:00] ways. I can do photorealism. I can do airbrush, photorealism. I can make it look like a photo. I can do oil painting. I can do what? Specialized in acrylics. I can do watercolor. So by choice, I’m doing what I do. I’m selling my art so I can pay my mortgage. And I was painting cats and dogs.

Oh my God. And went crazy by accident. I paint a friend’s cat. Now I got 100 people that want cat paintings. And I’m like, I don’t want to do cat paintings, I want to paint Porsches. So I screwed around with pets and then finally one day I said, no more, no more. So a really good friend of mine, Peter Sachs, he’s been instrumental with a lot of really fun things that we’ve done at the Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, stuff we’ve done with Bill Warner.

But Peter Sachs has this little scruffy dog they’ve had for 17 years. He did a huge favor to me. So I did a painting of the dog and they had a little bow in the dog with the brumos. 59 with the red and blue and they went to a Brumos function and Hurley Haywood loved the little dog and [00:25:00] Bob Snodgrass was still alive and he loved the dog and so I did a painting of the dog and sent it to him and I told Peter it’s my last goddamn dog painting I’m ever doing.

So Peter knows a lot of people in the car business, and he’ll introduce me about this great automotive artist, blah, blah, blah. And then he’ll take the wife aside, or the husband, whoever’s interested in the conversation, and say, well, do you have a dog or a cat? Kelly’s an incredible dog artist. Oh my God, he did that at the Haggerty party, the Thursday night Haggerty party at Pebble Beach.

I was gonna strangle him.

Crew Chief Eric: This is awesome, because this goes in line with a lot of other crazy stories, some of which you can read on your website, kellytelfer. com. But there’s a couple others that stood out at me, and I wanted to explore those as well. The Brumos Bahama Mama, the Pink Pig Tribute, and the Telfer Ranch.

Pick one, pick them all, tell us more about them.

Kelly Telfer: The coolest thing in the world is being lucky. And people tell me I’m really lucky. I worked really hard to be lucky to buy that Porsche Speedster and be the steward of that car [00:26:00] for 10 years. That was hard work to be lucky. So my friend Peter Sachs calls me I’m in Orlando.

I’m doing some project with McLaren and I love some of the McLaren cars. I did a McLaren Senna painting, and we had Ericsson Senna in the background, and there’s a lot about McLaren that I love. But, my friend called and said, I can get you 20 minutes, and this is in the private Brumos collection prior to them opening the museum.

So I said, McLaren, I’m really sorry, it’s Porsche. Can we reschedule for tomorrow? They agreed, I can’t believe it. So I jumped in the car and drove from Orlando down to Jacksonville. My 20 minutes with Donald Leatherwood, I walked by every car in this private collection. The 20 minutes stretched into five and a half hours.

Stories are flying, bullshit is flying, we’re having a blast. Every car I walked by, every single one, like the 917K, the Hurley Haywood car, that finished third in Can Am with Hurley driving it. I go, Oh, man, look at that. I’ll give you 25 grand for that one because it’s a little newer. The 550 [00:27:00] Spyder over there.

I’ll give you 30 grand. So I’m offering absolutely pennies on the dollar. Those cars are worth millions. The Sport O Matic 1973 911 that Porsche gifted Peter Gregg. I go, it’s a Sport O Matic. Take a thousand cash. So I’m offering them pennies on the dollar on every single car. Every single car. We get to this 1968 dead stock Bahama yellow 911 and it’s gorgeous.

It’s beautiful. And I said, I’ll buy that. And I go, yeah, sure. And every laugh. And then we kept going. That was it. Three days later, it’s three in the morning. I sat bolt upright in bed and I asked my wife, I go, do you think Don was serious? She goes, what are you talking about? I go about selling that Bahama mama, 68, nine 11.

She goes, I don’t know. Call him. So I got a hold of him somehow at 7 in the morning, Florida time. So what was that around four o’clock in the morning for me that day? And he said, no, we have no cars for sale. We’ve never sold a car to a private individual. Uh, no, but we would consider selling it to you.

They gave me a price range. I said, [00:28:00] so they go, well, we’ll take it over to the Porsche dealership. They sold Brumos Porsche turned into Jacksonville Porsche and the two mechanics that had worked on it for the 37 years they owned it. They dropped it off there. I said, okay, let me know whatever costs comes back.

They did fluids, tires, battery, you know, whatever, 10, 000. I go, okay. Of the range you told me, how much is it? And he goes, we’ll go on the bottom number and I go, okay. And I’ll add 10 grand. He goes, nah, we’ll take care of that. I go, okay, I’ll wire you the money. I’d never sat in it, drove it, looked underneath it, started it, nothing.

For me, it was a substantial amount of money. I happened at the time, one of the properties that my wife and I owned was right over a bank. So I walked downstairs, wired this substantial sum, took a picture of it, texted to him. Two minutes later, I go, okay, I wired the money. And the guy’s like, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, this never happens.

Billionaires take three weeks to wire money. You just did it in two minutes. I want you to know I want the car So I bought the car sight unseen. It’s an incredibly gorgeous beautiful analog 9 11 and on Fridays when I’m in the studio I take [00:29:00] it out and go sliding I slide my car and Peter Sachs and his son Keenan hooked me up for that I’ll be forever indebted to him doing the goddamn last dog painting as a gift to him wasn’t enough And I won first place at works reunion in the preservation class in Florida I had no idea they interview you and there’s like a few thousand people there.

So they go, tell us about the car. I go, I slaved on this thing for the last year. I detailed, I did this, I did that. And then I laughed. I go, no, I really picked it up from Brumos yesterday. And it’s in my garage. I’ll take the cover off the car and it’s right there behind me while I’m painting. I love it.

It’s incredible.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s your muse.

Kelly Telfer: And then we have a 2013 Boxster S. with a P. D. K. To me, one of the best cars on the planet. It is gorgeous. It’s too fat, too heavy by a lot of standards. But oh my God, it is such a blast. It actually has a coffee holder, heated steering wheel, heated seats, all this great stuff.

And then you jump into the 68 9 11. I’m twin boys. They’re now 29 and I have an older [00:30:00] daughter to their great kids. But the kids were about 11 or 12. And this guy next to us Rolling his hand like this, and my son goes, dad, what’s this mean? Roll down the window, , it’s analog. My 68 9 11. My wife goes, does it have air conditioning?

I go, absolutely. Do you want it on full blast or halfway? She goes, full blast goes. It was hot. So I opened the vent window and pointed at her. At her. It makes it even worse. It’s like you’re in an oven. Opening an oven door. It’s great. You can smell a little gas and oil. I mean that car’s a car.

Crew Chief Eric: As they say, they don’t make them like they used to.

Kelly Telfer: the pink pig was the movie prop for Porky’s. I found that because I saw a wheelbarrow on Facebook Marketplace, an old rusty wheelbarrow with Chevrolet 350 headers bailing wired on it. It’s all rusty. It was 30 bucks and I bought it. It was two hours away. But it was so cool. So I said, look, I can’t get there for a while.

I’m really busy. Guy goes, fine. Finally, they go, look, can you come get this? So I drive the two hours to pick up the wheelbarrow [00:31:00] and there is the movie prop from Porky’s, this pink pig. It’s 11 feet long and six feet tall. I go, what the hell is that? And he says, it’s from the actual movie. And I go, is it for sale?

He goes, yeah, he goes 8, 000. I go, that’s not for sale. That’s ridiculous. I ended up buying it for substantially less. My brother built a motorized cart. I painted it like the Porsche pink pig, but number 23, for those that don’t know it, the nine 17 came back from a French firm that did the aerodynamics and it was short and fat, one of the stories was it was four inches too wide.

They distracted the inspectors by painting it pink and putting the cuts of pork labeled in German. So the inspectors were so flustered they didn’t notice the car was four inches too wide. Some people say that’s true, some people say it’s not. So the most avid fan in the world is Mark Porsche, Bootsy’s son.

He gets on that thing with two or three buddies, we’re driving it around. I moved it one morning and I didn’t know I moved it in front of the corporate Porsche [00:32:00] 7 a. m. meeting in one of the buildings. They all ran out of the meeting and sat on it for pictures and totally disrupted corporate Porsche’s meeting with my pink pig.

But then everybody was meeting at Laguna Seca at the pig. I had no idea. It was near a bridge and they go, let’s meet at two o’clock at the pig. We’ll go get a beer to get lost. We’ll meet at the pig. It became the thing for the weekend. It’s been the Porsche parade, Porsche works. It’s been a dealerships for new car openings.

It’s been at Porsche digital, which is marquee. It’s kind of like a bring a trailer. They’re great group of guys. They had it in their corporate office in Palo Alto. So it was at Porsche corporate and I did world tour shirts. And the last stop I put on the world tour was Stuttgart, Germany. I believe it should go to the museum.

That’s my belief. Well, I sold the pink pig at Rensport. I can’t tell you who, but the guy’s last name starts with P and ends with E, and it rhymes with Porsche. We’re shipping it to Zell Am See in [00:33:00] Austria, which it’s really weird coincidence. That’s where the Porsche family lives. That is such the rightful place.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s some exciting stories here and the art goes right along with the stories. It’s tremendous stuff. Like you said, for every 10 failures comes a success and it’s part of the road that an artist takes to reach their zenith. And some of the things that you put out are absolutely amazing. And so to kind of continue this thread about style and design and what’s good and what’s bad and what’s ugly.

comes a discussion around your chosen medium. You mentioned acrylics, but you also do some photo realistic stuff, which is gaining more popularity out there on social media and whatnot.

Kelly Telfer: I have sent more customers to Lynn Heiner, to Sammy, to others than probably most other artists. I look at it differently.

I believe that I’m here to help anyone I can and mentor. Some artists don’t want it. They don’t need it. That’s fine. If someone goes, you know, I want drippy paint on my painting. I go talk to Lynn Heiner. She does a palette knife. She does this drippy thing. [00:34:00] It’s outrageously cool. And they’re like, well, no, I wanted you, I want your work.

I go, you want my work, you buy what I do. You want drippy. Pallet paint. You go to Lynn Heiner, you want beautiful realism in these outrageous greens and cool colors. You go to Samantha. And the more I push people away, the more they wanna come back. You know, can you do it like this? No, no, I’m never doing a painting for you.

Get out of my boot. And then I walk ’em over to Lynn’s boot. If people don’t like what I do. Awesome. Some people go, you know, a fourth grader could have done that. And I go, thank you for the compliment because you know how many people have left creativity behind by the time they’re in fourth grade.

Crew Chief Eric: When you choose your subjects, especially Porsches, which have some very well known liveries, you know, you mentioned Bob Gerritsen.

We can talk about the Apple 935. You’ve got Brumos. You’ve got Martini. You’ve got the Rothmans cars. What do you pick and why? What really draws you in? And like, for instance, when we had Samantha Zimmerman on, who’s a friend of yours, she really likes the [00:35:00] Valiant livery, that seafoam green, like Bianchi has with the purple and the orange.

And she’s into that. She does low and brow stuff. And she says that certain liveries draw her in. So for you, what is it that pulls you into the canvas and gets you excited to start painting?

Kelly Telfer: Michael Allen Ross is a world renowned photographer and a Porsche photographer, and the guy’s brilliant, hilarious, and what really pisses me off is he can play guitar and sing really well, which I can’t do either.

That’s not right. You can’t be a brilliant photographer and then also a brilliant musician. What Michael Allen Ross said is… Choose your view, your angle carefully, because there’s so many standard views of cars. And it gets more and more difficult as you go into historical because you’ve got to create your own view, because one thing’s been done so many times.

Really, for me, it’s creating a story. So, this side of me, this original painting, by the way, on this side, is being shipped [00:36:00] as part of the Porsche Private Collection. At Zell am See in Austria, but I’m telling a story. You can see the cars at Gmund, the wood buck. And you see the first Porsche made, Porsche recognizes was the mid engine car.

And then you see it go down historically. So I like telling a story. Over my other shoulder here, this was to launch the 2024 Cayenne. And along with the Paris Dakar, we got Yosemite in the background with the waterfalls and all that. I’m not even painting the tires on the car. I’m just painting the dust and the dirt.

Even though I can do photorealism, I choose not to. My daughter’s a professional photographer. Have her go take a beautiful picture of your car. My opinion, and I’m not dissing people that do photorealism, it’s popular, it’s awesome. Everyone asks me when somehow I manage to do a reflection that looks to them photorealism.

They go, how’d you do it? I go, it’s really easy. You buy a can of photorealism paint and you just pour it on and it creates it. It’s done. They’re like. It reminds me when I was in the T shirt [00:37:00] business, all these guys like Steve Kinzer, sprint car driver, Brent Kading, Mario Andretti, they’re all clients and so they go, you know, your shirts, they sold out so well, and they’re pissed because they’re sold out.

They go, I need more and I need them right away. So I created TAPE. And on the tape it said shipped yesterday. It was a repeated thing. Step and repeat. So my custom tape said ship yesterday. People call me up. How did you ship yesterday when I didn’t order it until today?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, let’s dive into the photorealism just a little bit more because Again, to your point, it’s become really, really popular.

And somebody asked me one time, because hung artwork, professionally done, usually a one of one, maybe a few limited copies. It’s not cheap. And somebody goes, if I want something that looks like a photograph, why wouldn’t I just get a poster? If you’re having that conversation with somebody that’s sort of on the edge of spending the money and buying a piece of art, how would you convince them to say, No, you need an acrylic.

You need an oil. You need a photorealistic done by a professional up on your wall.

Kelly Telfer: [00:38:00] I built this rat rod Volkswagen with a 32 Ford front axle, painted all the suspension red, 2. 2 liter VW motor with 48 Webers. It never really ran right. It did not matter. It was the worst handling car on the planet. If you’re going to hit a manhole cover, or thick paint on the road, you better start thinking where you’re gonna slide, which way, because the car’s out of control.

My point is, I’d go to a car show next to a three or four hundred thousand dollar, either a Porsche or a street rod, and it says, unless you’re naked, don’t touch my car. Me, I open the doors, I ask kids with ice cream, with chocolate all over, and I go, could you draw on my hood? And they’re drawn with ice cream, and their parents run over, terrified, and I’m like, Get your kid off my car.

What do they do? I don’t know. Just kidding. I invited him to paint on my car and sit in my car and honk the horn. Samantha just did a thing about etiquette at an art show. Samantha Zimmerman is one of the most talented artists, a very dear friend. Her work is incredible, impeccable. I always tease her. She needs to get a little looser, have a [00:39:00] little more fun.

I saw one of her pieces that I thought was a new piece at Rendsport and it was an old piece and I Wow. Do more like that. She just did a Facebook post saying Don’t touch the art. Have some consideration for the art. I’m a freaking opposite. You come in my booth. I’m like, here’s the original here. Let me show you the texture.

Why? And how I got that. And I got kids, people, adults touching the art. People walk by and they don’t recognize me as the artist. And they’re like, don’t touch that art. I know it’s mine. They can touch it all they want to me. It’s tactile. It’s cool. Which is cool. That’s what’s great about art. Different thoughts, different opinions.

Realistic art’s one thing. Computer art, like we all did in Photoshop in the 80s. I was the first guy to do a computer rendering for Chevrolet that they used on some national advertising and in national ads. It was in Photoshop. It was really cool back then because it was Photoshop 2. 5. Who knows where we are now?

Probably version 30. So when you did a blur tool on an 80 megabyte file, I could read a whole chapter on the book [00:40:00] on Photoshop to blur the damn thing. I’ve got a huge ViewSonic monitor, you know, these big old huge things you can barely carry. And then if you didn’t like it, you hit control Z and undo, the undo would take another 20 minutes.

So I’ve done photorealism on computers, I’ve painted photorealism, and I also have done AI artwork. And the real burning question is, where’s AI? Artificial intelligence? End up in this world. So there are some people that pass off AI, not as AI, but as artists rendered work. I did a couple of AI pieces for the Laguna Seca IndyCar event.

I did three of them and I’m really good at it. So I did three, but I did a little different marketing on the back. I labeled it and said, look, this is AI. I hand drew, I scanned it. I did this and that, but I also. Threw it at the AI world and then erased the stuff they screwed up. So the real question is, what is art?

There’s so many different levels. It’s kind of arrogant for me to sit here and say, you know, because I use a paintbrush and I paint on a canvas. That’s [00:41:00] art. Andy Warhol peed on copper plates, and the reaction of his urine in the chemicals on the copper created art. I’ll tell you what, that sounds like a lot more fun to me, walk around peeing to create art.

So, if you can pee to create art, and Andy sold that for millions… Who am I to say that anyone can’t do whatever the hell they want?

Crew Chief Eric: That’s very true. And I mean, you had those near schizophrenic episodes with Jackson Pollock in a closed room throwing paint at walls, right? So everybody’s got their style.

Kelly Telfer: He’s a freaking genius. They say, oh my god, are you kidding me? I think it’s smaller minded of people to say, this type of art’s better than that, you shouldn’t do that. I think it should call it what it is. You know, I don’t believe really in lying anywhere, anytime, so you don’t lie, you just say, yeah, I told AI what to create for me, I’m the Wizard of Oz, I’m the little man behind the curtain, and sell the hell out of it.

Go buy a Carrera Speedster. If you’re out there and you want to be an artist, or you want to be a race car driver, or [00:42:00] anything, jump into it with everything you have. Make it happen. Don’t take advantage of people. Don’t take the shortcuts. You put in way more work than you think. It’s perseverance. So that’s how it works.

Crew Chief Eric: So what else do you have going on? What else is coming for 2024? What other secret projects do you want to tell us about?

Kelly Telfer: I’m doing a big thing on a cruise. You want to talk about what’s upcoming? Trefinit C is PCA Porsche club, along with princess cruise lines. I’ve never been on a cruise, but I’m the official artist for the cruise.

Oh my God. So I’m doing paintings, original things, pop ups. If I can’t sell drunk Porsche owners that I have. Seven days in a row to hammer them. I’m in the wrong damn business. I should be selling pots and pans door to door. We’re going to crush it and have a blast. I’m doing a thing with the National Automobile Museum in Reno.

That’s kind of the former Harrah’s. Phil that runs that thing came into my booth at Ironstone, which is a really cool concourse, [00:43:00] exactly 14. 2 minutes from my house via Porsche, about 20 minutes via my truck. So this guy came in my booth and he’s really revamping incredibly that museum so supposedly they’re going to announce me as the new official artist supposedly they’re going to do an exhibit on me there’s no supposedly i’m doing all this and i’m doing art for the walls and art for this and that so i’m thrilled to be doing another museum and then i went to this thing and did a paint party class it’s called castle air museum in a little san joaquin valley town in california called at water They have 89 airplanes.

They’re spectacular. So I am now going to be their official artist that duplicates nose art from the World War II airplanes. I’m going to duplicate, I think it’s a Raptor F 22. There’s only four that are not in the military, and I’m going to reduplicate the way the tail was painted. They had to strip it all off because the paint on the plane was top secret.

They said it has a radar image of a sparrow bird, this jet fighter. And so I get to paint on these [00:44:00] planes. So that has nothing to do with cars, but everything to do with how cool is that? By now, you know me a little better. I got to see where they’re rebuilding all the airplanes and doing all this. I’m like, that’s a gun turret from a B 17 bomber.

Can I have that? You have to have one of those, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, of course.

Kelly Telfer: I would actually buy a VW bus and put that on it. I would put that gun turret on it. I might be looking for a VW bus. They gave me this wooden propeller. It’s 12 feet long. It’s hanging out of my truck. I sent it off to some propeller expert.

There’s a chance it’s from a Zeppelin. How many people have a Zeppelin propeller? Is that cool?

Crew Chief Eric: Very.

Kelly Telfer: I don’t know. Not much is going on. What about you?

Crew Chief Eric: Just another Friday . So for our audience who’s been along for this ride and wants to know more about getting some of your art

Kelly Telfer: at the Peterson Museum in la, I’m their top selling artist.

I have been for five years and I’m proud of that. You know, I’m a nice guy and I help other artists. I’m competitive as hell. I want to kick everyone’s ass, but call [00:45:00] Samantha Zimmerman. Go call Lynn Heiner. You know, you don’t want my art. Go to some real artists. Not this. Look at this stuff behind me.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you do commissions that aren’t cats and dogs?

Like how do you go about getting Kelly Telfer art?

Kelly Telfer: I do have a website. I do commissions. I’m obviously like this one here. We do the Porsche dealership, their new car introductions. Sometimes I paint live. Last year, I auctioned off three paintings with a lot of help. Bill Warner that founded Amelia Island, Peter Sacks, Mario Andretti, Bootsy Porsche’s son, Mark Porsche.

I sold three paintings. The total of those Street paintings and some other stuff. I sold over 300, 000 last year to charity. And to me, if you’re earning it, you better be given it back. I don’t just say it. I do it. However, Eric, I’m going to bill him for the brushes. I think 90 bucks or so, you know. Fair is fair.

So I challenge all you artists out there that are successful, start giving back to those that aren’t as lucky or fortunate or [00:46:00] haven’t fell into it or worked as hard as we all have. Get back, help people out. I do free paint classes, sometimes for disadvantaged people, for people that haven’t had this experience or whatever, sometimes for very wealthy people.

I say it’s from age 4 to 94 years old. If somebody is doing a charity auction, and they need some art prints, you call me and I’ll pass you off to my business manager because she actually ships and delivers all the stuff I promise. If I promise it, good luck. Call Michaela. I will donate art to your event.

If it’s a bona fide charity event, I will donate art every time.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve reached that part of the episode where I like to ask any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t covered thus far.

Kelly Telfer: I am so fortunate to work in this industry with so many incredible people. Porsche Club of America, Vu, Ron Gordon, Tom Pervasi, his wife, Sandy, everybody there has been so incredible to me.

It has been such a dream [00:47:00] come true working with Seca Raceway. I cannot tell you how much it means to me as a four year old kid to go to that racetrack. A few short 50 years later, I’m the official artist for the racetrack, and I’m able to give back and help and support them in addition to a dream come true.

So, you know, what’s the most important thing to me? Giving back. There’s two things that count, passion and compassion. Reach into your heart and give out to others, especially this upcoming season where it’s so difficult for so many people. I’m lucky I’m able to do this. I only work at it part time though, Eric.

I only work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Crew Chief Eric: The other part, you’re sleeping. Yeah.

Kelly Telfer: I tried to, but it doesn’t work. I started this morning at one o’clock and in California right now, 1 a. m. And it’s 6 13 PM and I’m going to go out and still work on the painting I’m doing for the cruise.

Crew Chief Eric: Passion, speed, and color.

That’s the founding principles behind Kelly Telfer’s art. To learn more about how you can acquire a piece of [00:48:00] Kelly’s work, look no further than www. kellytelfer. com or follow him on social media at Telfer Design Inc on Facebook and on Instagram or at Kelly Telfer on LinkedIn. With that Kelly, I can’t thank you enough for coming on break fix.

And I have to say you are just like your art larger than life. So many stories you could spend countless hours just staring at one of your paintings. And I feel you coming through every piece and if our audience didn’t get it from this episode, they definitely will. So thank you and continue doing what you’re doing and spreading the vehicle and motor sports enthusiasm to the world.

Kelly Telfer: I can’t thank you enough, Eric. I appreciate all the work and effort you do to support this incredible industry. However, I’m going to invite you to California and come out on a Friday and let’s go sliding in that old 68

Crew Chief Eric: 911. That sounds like a plan.

Kelly Telfer: Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Brake Fix [00:49:00] Podcast, brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at GrandTouringMotorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article at GTMotorsports.

So consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without you, none of this would be [00:50:00] possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Kelly Telfer: Renowned Automobile Artist

01:08 Kelly’s Early Artistic Journey

01:50 Racing Adventures and T-Shirt Business

03:35 Transition to Silicon Valley

04:46 Return to Art and Passion for Cars

05:24 The Porsche 356 Speedster Story

12:28 Art School Experience and Professional Growth

14:24 Design Philosophy and Iconic Cars

17:47 The VW Bus and Car Design Critique

24:15 From Cat Paintings to Automotive Art

25:42 Exploring Iconic Projects

25:54 The Porsche Speedster Journey

26:16 A Visit to the Brumos Collection

27:20 The Bahama Yellow 911 Purchase

30:33 The Pink Pig Story

33:07 Artistic Philosophy and Mentorship

37:26 Exploring Photorealism and AI in Art

42:11 Upcoming Projects and Collaborations

46:37 Giving Back and Final Thought

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Achieving Dreams The Art of Hard Work and Pursuing Passions - Kelly Telfer

GTM = Years of racing, wrenching and Motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge, stories and information. #everyonehasastory #gtmbreakfix - gtmotorsports.org

► Check out our membership program ...and go VIP at: https://www.patreon.com/gtmotorsports
►► Other cool stuff: https://linkin.bio/grantouringmotorsportsShow More