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EVs, Hybrids, and Heated Seats: A No-Holds-Barred Debate on What to Buy Next

March 7, 2023

Welcome back to another rousing episode of What Should I Buy? – where our panel of Break/Fix petrol heads tackle the car-buying conundrum with humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of skepticism. This time, we’re diving into the EV market from a woman’s point of view, exploring what it means to be a first-time buyer, a seasoned collector, or just someone trying to make sense of the modern car landscape.

Our guests range from vintage car lovers to EV owners, each bringing a unique perspective:

Sara Lacey (A Girl’s Guide to Cars) drives a Tesla Model Y and owns a 1982 Porsche 911 SC.
Carolyn Ford (Tech Transforms podcast) is EV-curious but skeptical.
Emily Fox (GTM Sports Club) daily-drives a Volvo XC40 Recharge and restores a 1967 MGBGT.
Chrissy Crutchfield owns a VW ID.4 and a new Toyota Tundra.
Kat DeLorean (DNG Motors) is a vocal critic of EV policy and a champion of open-source car design.

Carolyn (above) wants to be a good global citizen – but she’s impatient, hates waiting at charging stations, and needs a car that can handle Utah’s snowy mountains and desert drives. The group quickly pivots from “What should I buy?” to “What should I NOT buy?” – and EVs take a hit.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Kat doesn’t hold back: “If you brought me on here to convince you to get an EV, you called the wrong guest.” She raises concerns about battery replacement costs, grid instability, and the environmental impact of lithium mining. Emily and Sara counter with practical use cases, but even they acknowledge the limitations.

Shopping Criteria

In this episode, a panel of female petrol heads and EV owners, including Sara Lacey, Carolyn Ford, Emily Fox, Chrissy Crutchfield, and Kat DeLorean, participate in a lively discussion aimed at helping a first-time car buyer choose the best vehicle. The group explores the pitfalls of the car buying experience, highlights the complexities of modern car choices, and debates the merits of EVs versus hybrids. The conversation includes the panelists’ personal car ownership experiences and addresses concerns related to EV infrastructure, environmental impact, and technological advancements. The participants also examine practical considerations for potential EV buyers, such as home charging setups and the cost of car maintenance. Ultimately, the episode offers valuable insights and practical tips for anyone looking to navigate the ever-expanding automotive marketplace, especially from the perspective of environmentally conscious consumers.

Carolyn – has been considering a new car, but cost is a factor; she even went and test drove a Tesla recently – thoughts?
Let’s address the elephant in the room – is anyone here suffering from range anxiety? Is this even a “thing” anymore?
Living with EVs today; what did you choose and why? What are the positives and negatives of owning an EV (pun intended)
Let’s talk about “the car buying experience” in general. Do you prefer going to a dealership or car show or some other venue to check out new cars? Are dealerships still relevant? Should we move to online ordering?
Kat – building her own supercar – how tough is the decision right now, petrol, hybrid or EV. Which direction are you taking the JZD in?
Cost is always a huge concern… Thoughts on what EVs are going for? Are they priced appropriately? Should they be cheaper?
TESLA vs The World
Thoughts on EVs – which one, why?

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to the Panel and Debate
00:19 The Car Buying Experience
00:55 Diverse Perspectives on Car Ownership
02:59 Challenges of EV Ownership
06:30 Environmental Impact and Future of EVs
13:53 Technological Innovations and Maintenance Issues
25:23 Exploring EV Brands and Options
39:58 EV Tires and Efficiency
40:33 Volkswagen ID4 Experience
41:05 Adaptive Cruise Control Debate
43:00 Volvo EV Insights
43:51 Considering Plug-in Hybrids
45:27 Navigating Car Dealerships
49:58 Evaluating Classic Car EV Conversions
58:10 Charging Infrastructure Challenges
01:02:57 New Car Features and Tech
01:11:21 Final Thoughts on EV Purchases
01:14:04 Dream EVs and Closing Remarks

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Our panel of break fix petrolheads are back for another rousing what should I buy debate. Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go. Where’d you get that? Or what the hell is wrong with you? At the next Cars and Coffee.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, the dreaded car buying experience. No matter who you are, it’s probably a safe bet this isn’t your ideal way to spend your weekend. In and out of dealerships, the hassle, haggling, the decision making. When confronted with car buying in today’s modern world, there are just so many more choices besides make model and what color do I want.

Now it’s which power source do I want? To what level does it drive itself? Which creature comforts and gizmos are available for subscription? Am I Apple or Android? Even before so many choices, men and women have traditionally approached this experience differently for a multitude of reasons, some spanning use cases, from the mom van to car enthusiasts.

Today, we will be diving deeper into what should I buy from a lady’s point of view, [00:01:00] focusing on the new car buyer versus car collector demographic, and even more specifically, EV buyers. Our group of extraordinary Petrolhead panelists range from veteran car reviewers to prospective buyers, as well as ladies already living with EVs.

We’re here to explore what to look for in today’s EV car market. Joining us tonight, we have some returning Brake Fix guests. Please welcome Sara Lacey from A Girl’s Guide to Cars, Carolyn Ford from the Tech Transforms podcast, Grand Touring Motorsports. Sports Club members, Emily Fox and Chrissy Crutchfield, as well as special guest Kat Thelorean from DNG Motors.

Welcome to the show, ladies.

Emily Fox: Hello. Thanks for having me. Hello.

Executive Producer Tania: Thank you. Hi. We’re here to talk cars. Where are we in our car journeys? So I’ll start. I am not an EV car owner. That’s what our main focus of discussing is tonight. I am, in fact, not even a new car owner. All my cars are aged. [00:02:00] If you will,

Chrissy Crutchfield: for historic tags, right?

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, I got one on historics already. Another I could put on historics this year and my daily driver, I can’t put on historics, but it would be ready in two years. So

Kat DeLorean: I’m right there with you. I don’t have an EV or any real new cars. I think my newest car is 2017. I’ve owned a hybrid before, but all of my cars are internal combustion.

Emily Fox: I own many cars. I actually own a new car. I own a 2022 XC40 Recharge, smaller size SUV, and I freaking love this thing. This is my daily driver. And I also have a 1967 MGBGT, which has the interior pulled apart, so I’m currently in the middle of year two of redoing it. But, Buying the SUV EV was perfect for me.

I’ve got two girls. I need to carry all their soccer stuff around and all their girl scout stuff everywhere, all over Maryland every weekend. And it works perfectly for that. Going to the grocery store, whatever it is that I need. It does take a while [00:03:00] to fill up, but for a daily task car, and you’re only going maybe an hour, an hour and a half out of your.

Regular charting area. It’s not too bad.

Executive Producer Tania: So Emily’s winning our oldest car prize. I was winning until Emily spoke. So

Chrissy Crutchfield: Chrissy, we have the Volkswagen ID for first edition and we just got a new Toyota Tundra, but obviously that’s off topic and we have two others, mostly older cars. I’m excited to share and make suggestions even because there’s a few that I’m actually interested in.

Carolyn Ford: I am not a new car owner either. My car is a 2016, but I did buy my son for his first car, a hybrid. He’s still driving it right now. It’s a 2005. I’ll have to ask him how many miles. I feel like it had almost 150, 000 miles on it when I bought it. And I live in Utah. We just got dumped on with snow like 15 inches.

Like, he gets to where he needs to go in this little Prius, which always shocks me.

Kat DeLorean: That was my hybrid. It was a [00:04:00] Prius. I loved it. It was my fun little clown car.

Carolyn Ford: Yeah, he loves his and I drive a CR V because I do a lot of outdoor things and like, I’m going up the mountain to ski. So I need room for my skis and everything.

And I’m always worried that I won’t be able to get to where I need to go, but he doesn’t seem to have a problem. He snowboards, he’s taken it up into the mountains. So I’m very interested. In a pure EV and I’m lazy and impatient, and I don’t want to have to wait at a charging station for 45 minutes. So I can’t wait to have you guys help me get over these big hesitations for an EV because I want one.

Executive Producer Tania: Sara, round us off.

Sara Lacey: Okay. I have a 2021 Tesla model Y and I have a 1982 Porsche 911 SC.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, as we dive into this outdoors. You want to take it into the mountains, you want to load your ski or snowboard gear in it, you’re lazy, you’re [00:05:00] impatient, you don’t want to wait three hours at the charger station.

Carolyn Ford: Well, and I go to the desert, so my runs like to the desert from my house, it’s a three, three and a half hour ride.

I’m going to have to stop and charge halfway there, right? And how long is that going to take, Emily?

Emily Fox: Uh, a while, depending on what kind of car you buy. And depends on what year it is. Because if they actually do anything about the EV charging grid across the continental United States, it might get a little bit better.

But right now, it’ll take you a really long time if you can find a charger on your way there and back.

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly. So ladies and gentlemen listening, we are quickly devolving into what should I not buy and that’s an EV car.

Carolyn Ford: That has something to say

Kat DeLorean: here though. Talk me into it. You’re shaking your head. No, I’m shaking my head because if you brought me on here to convince you to get an EV, he called the wrong guest.

No, I think

Carolyn Ford: I wanted you to convince me because I want to be a good global citizen [00:06:00] and do my part.

Kat DeLorean: My question is, is with all of these requirements and concerns and your experience thus far with a car that was purchased with 150, 000 miles on it, why are you going EV and not hybrid? That’s

Carolyn Ford: what I want to ask you guys, like right now.

I just heard a story on NPR that totally crapped all over the hybrids and said, we got to do better and go into the full EV, but I agree with you. Like the hybrid seems like a really good way to go.

Emily Fox: It’s not for everyone.

Kat DeLorean: There’s a lot of things that go into EVs being greener. And there’s a lot of things that are going into what’s happening with EVs right now.

While you may want to get an EV eventually, that’ll meet all the needs that you have, you’re not necessarily a bad global citizen for going hybrid because an EV right now doesn’t meet your needs. Also, in order for the electricity that’s charging your EV to be greener, it has to come from a greener source.

than the [00:07:00] gasoline or in some way. That

Carolyn Ford: was another big question of mine.

Kat DeLorean: How do you know that what you’re charging with isn’t doing just as much damage? If you want to be a good steward of the environment, work to offset the carbon you use until you can get something that can be a fully neutral vehicle.

Don’t try and change your entire life just because you want something that everybody else will look at you and go, Ooh, look, she’s doing great for the environment.

Sara Lacey: It’s a great way of putting it. Well, and I think that that speaks to the idea that there’s a discrepancy between what is available and what people can manage in their daily lives.

And there is something to wanting to speak via your wallet. You know, I’m going to purchase an EV because I know that maybe everything I want in an EV isn’t there yet, but I want to push that forward by purchasing an EV or a plugin hybrid at this. Stage of the game, there’s a lot of gray area to consider for this.

[00:08:00] And I do think that your feelings are valid that yes, you do want to be a global citizen and recognizing that it’s not maybe a hundred percent the right choice for you right now, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t also find something that bridges that gap. Day to day, we’re just seeing so many more models.

We’re seeing so many improvements in infrastructure, but there’s still a lot of work to be done. Charging stations are tough. Understanding and being a consumer in this environment is tough. We all have to become electrical engineers all of a sudden. It’s a very early time in the life of EVs. So you have to be patient with yourself.

And unfortunately, you have to do a lot of homework. I don’t want you to, uh, lazy shame yourself. It’s just a lot of information to take on right now.

Kat DeLorean: Yeah. I have a question about the environmental impact of EVs. So I buy an EV. Let’s say I buy, I think it was a Chevy Bolt, which is about 20, 000. And in [00:09:00] eight years, With an internal combustion engine, I would have turned around and sold that car or a hybrid with 150, 000 miles on it, and it would have continued to live on.

But in eight years, it’s going to cost somebody who spent 20, 000 on a car 15, 000 to replace the battery. So you’re creating a bunch of throwaway cars. while harvesting all of the lithium from our planet and these toxic chemicals that create death napalm when they catch on fire to save the planet.

You’re who I needed to talk

Carolyn Ford: to.

Kat DeLorean: I feel

Carolyn Ford: better

Kat DeLorean: about myself. I’m telling you that I am not the person to convince you to buy an EV. Also, our electric infrastructure can’t support our air conditioning. Do you guys know what happens when you bring three electric Cadillacs into a dealership at once? You can’t plug them all in or the whole dealership goes dark.

It’s not just the charging stations. We don’t currently make enough electricity to support every single person plugging car into their house. So we can’t push EVs for every single [00:10:00] person when there are other options that we had available to us to put our research towards and They’re not available for us to buy now.

And I have feelings about the fact that they’re going to be delaying

Sara Lacey: them. Because I feel like too, that is yet another piece that’s moving along. You know, it feels like a snail’s pace for a lot of us, but when I was at the Chicago auto show and there was a woman there from Con Ed speaking, and she was talking about how, what we have to remember is that every single person isn’t going to plug in every single night.

And crash the grid, granted, she’s in the Midwest. She’s not speaking from the standpoint of someone in California, where you have to manage things like brownouts and whatever. And one of our writers on our website, she just bought this really cool solar generator. In the event of a brownout, she’s still going to have the option to charge her car from the solar generator.

So it’s yet another piece. That we’re seeing a lot of development taking [00:11:00] place. I think it’s important that we recognize too, that that kind of information and those things change on a month to month basis, things are changing. They’re figuring things out. We still don’t really know for sure how recycling these batteries is going to work, and we don’t know for sure what that cost ultimately will be.

We’re facing a massive, massive phase of early adoption. We just really haven’t seen that on this scale. So it’s hard to know

Kat DeLorean: we’re not creating throwaway batteries. We’re creating throwaway entire cars. That’s my problem with it. It’d be one thing if we were just causing an issue with recycling the batteries, but it’s causing the cars to be something we just toss away.

I don’t know how much people on this call. No. There is an existence, a hydrogen peroxide engine that was developed and quashed because of EV policymakers. So again, I have very, very strong feelings about what’s happened in the EV world.

Executive Producer Tania: You mentioned people probably aren’t going to plug in every night. I don’t know if [00:12:00] that’s true or not.

Chrissy Crutchfield: I plug in every night.

Executive Producer Tania: I would, I do. I don’t have to. But I do, you know, they’re pushing the trend toward, you know, everyone’s no longer building internal combustion engines by the year last year, you know, and it’s Evie or die, you’re going to have multi Evie cars in your home. Someone’s going to be plugging in every night.

You’re right. The grids can’t handle it. We’ve seen this in the last couple of years, the huge outages in Texas where everyone was freezing to death because the grids couldn’t support it. And they’re their own special case of owning their own infrastructure and electricity. So we won’t go there, but nonetheless, there’s always brownouts and blackouts in California and this, that, and the other, that is a big problem.

And Kat, to your point, what’s always seems to be missed as a life cycle analysis. which is literally from

the

Executive Producer Tania: very beginning of the smallest component that goes into the car to what happens when it is put in the crusher at the landfill and put back into the earth. I still haven’t gotten a good read on what that is [00:13:00] versus your traditional ice engine car.

I mean, a lot of the components are the same. You’ve got the frames and the body panels and all that, but you just have so many more electronics that are specialized that we know aren’t Great to just throw out into the oceans, right? I’m not necessarily convinced either that 100 percent way that the future should go.

I think there’s room for them, and I think they have great use cases, and there are great times they should be applied. But just like your finances, you don’t put all your eggs in one basket. You need to diversify. So there’s still room for our hybrids, even more than regular ice engines. And there’s also homes for EVs as well as hydrogen engines.

Hopefully if they can, you know, solve the impending Hindenburg issues and whatever other, you know, technology Dutch are trying to put solar panels on the tops of cars and you can run them for an hour a day or whatever. There’s all this going on. It’s a complicated answer.

Emily Fox: It is, but you bring up a really interesting point that I don’t think a lot of people actually [00:14:00] think about when they’re talking about what kind of car should I buy is the ability of you to maintain or work on your own car.

We’ve had gas powered motors. For such a long period of time, decades upon decades, culturally, in that era of growing up, there was a reasonable expectation that you as the owner of your car were responsible for the maintenance of it. And it wasn’t until you got mass market production of all of these kinds of vehicles in like the 1980s and the 1990s that you started to see this, as Kat put it, this throwaway kind of mentality associated with cars, you go to a specialty shop to do a repair on it.

You’re not necessarily doing it. Yourself, you’re not being taught those skills. The next natural iteration of that, as you modernize engines to be more efficient, to do more, to do amazing things of whatever anybody wants it to be in saving the environment, you’re taking away the ability to be self maintaining on your own vehicle.

You’re abstracting that. And you see that today in a lot of technology concepts, going from writing on something with a paper, pen and [00:15:00] pad to actually scribbling on your iPad with it, and how many layers of extraction and tactile difference. You’re losing over the course of that. And when that happens, there is no life cycle assessment because we’ve not been around long enough to say that there’s somebody that can actually work on EVs and recycle those batteries and reuse those parts and rebuild those parking sensors by themselves.

Executive Producer Tania: And then when it’s an uphill battle, because there’s. For years now, actually, I think there’s been groups that are trying to advocate the anti right to work. You’re not allowed to work on your car. You have to go bring it to a service station or auto dealer, whoever it is. I hate

Emily Fox: that. I hate that so much.

Kat DeLorean: That’s terrible. I hope that never passes. That’s actually something that we’re working very, very hard on in the design of our car. I love working on my car for Many reasons, my car is one of the best engineered cars ever. That C7 is just beautiful. And the weight distribution, it’s an incredible car. I can’t get in there.

It’s too tight. My husband and I have been talking about this loss of a design. 50 percent of kids today, they don’t [00:16:00] want cars. And we believe part of it is because you have that loss of tactile relationship with it. You can no longer work on your cars. And so one of the questions I said to my technology engineers was, can we Minecraft the car or Linux the car?

Make it open source, take it to somewhere where we can open source, right? Start to actually work on our cars. Because not only do you have this battery obsolescence, you’ve planned obsolescence in the technology. You’re not going to have these cars supported their computers on wheels. And so what happens when windows goes end of life and it’s no longer supported, you can’t get updates and the what’s going to happen to these cars.

There is a throwaway. Whereas you can still buy a 64 GTO today. There is an absolute death point on these cars where they will not be able to be revived, no matter what you do now with hybrids, you have an interesting situation where if this hybrid dies, you can actually rebuild it. With a mid engine internal combustion engine.

[00:17:00] So there is an opportunity for at least some of these cars to be repurposed. And I do believe that if you start to think about that in these EV cars, okay. When it dies, it’s going to die. How do we create something that can be turned into something else?

Carolyn Ford: Is the throwaway thing true with all EVs or just the lower end?

Like Sara’s Tesla, is it going to die in eight years? You’re going to have to pay tens of

Kat DeLorean: thousands of dollars for a new battery.

Sara Lacey: The question becomes, do you, at the end of that, however many, 120, 000 miles, do you want to spend 000 to get a new battery pack? Or do you want to let the car go and get something different or a new one?

Whatever you decide you want to do at that point. But one of the things I wanted to touch on about that was that there’s a debate going on right now too about technology and cars. And this goes a little bit beyond the EV discussion, but in Germany, BMW [00:18:00] is creating subscription based features. Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: Mercedes

Sara Lacey: too. Yes.

Carolyn Ford: What do you mean subscription based features like radio?

Emily Fox: You want to go faster? You pay.

Executive Producer Tania: You pay a monthly fee for your heated seats.

Kat DeLorean: What?

Carolyn Ford: No.

Kat DeLorean: Uh huh.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s just one example.

Kat DeLorean: I’m curious what the real return on investment of that is, because the infrastructure to support that Has to be massive.

Are you really making that much money? I guess. I don’t know.

Executive Producer Tania: People have gotten so hooked in the last, I don’t know how many years you want to call it, with this pay to play. And the younger generation is like addicted to that, because all your video gaming systems, it’s no longer I go to the store and I just Spend 50 bucks, I have a game, and I have the entire game.

No, it’s, I spend 50 bucks, and I have a quarter of the game, and then like, every two months, I have to pay 25. [00:19:00] I can level up. To get like, the next 10 minutes of playtime. And then, on top of that, like, 1. 99 here, and 1. 99 there. And the same thing on your cell phones. Like, Candy Crush and all this stuff. And it’s like, they keep tempting you and teasing you with these little bits of features that you want for, you know, little amounts of money and As you do it little by little, it desensitizes you, and then they’re shifting that now into cars.

It’s like, yeah, you want heated seats? It’s an extra 9. 99 a month. You want to turn your radio on and actually hear a channel broadcast? Another 10 a month, and so on. It’s ridiculous. Yeah. Kind of doing this one to ourselves because we’re allowing it to happen. Even with streaming TV. It’s like, we all complained about cable TV.

We don’t, I don’t have what I want to watch. I wish I could a la carte it. And now we can a la carte it cause there’s 15 streaming services and we’re unhappy again.

Carolyn Ford: I want to go back to what, something you said though, about the gamification. I’m labeling it now that you didn’t say gamification, but you put something in my head about the kids working on their cars.

Like I totally had [00:20:00] an Iron Man vision. of them able to like, really, are

Kat DeLorean: you going there? Yeah, it’s something that I would like other people to adopt that’s part of our whole model is yes, I want kids to be able to interact with their cars again. And I’m not necessarily going to be able to get them to be able to interact with it the way I could.

So instead of trying to give them the experience I had, how can I take it to their level. And if you look at how profoundly successful anything open source is that allows them to get creative. That’s the whole thing. Everybody wants to get back to using their hands. I not only want to create something that they can interact with, that they could 3d print parts for, and that they can program their own little updates for.

Whatever. I want to create something that will last forever. I want them to have a lifetime warranty on their car and I’ll just build it into the price of the car and put away a savings that goes with it until they. Sell it and then it goes away, whatever. But we have this cost of maintenance, this cost of ownership that is stifling.

Now, when my [00:21:00] dad built cars, the thing that drove him crazy was the two biggest expenses you have in your life or your house and your car. Why are we paying for the second one forever? Literally forever. Soon as you finish paying for the first car, either you’re paying as much as a new car payment to maintain it, or you have to go buy a new car because it just died for whatever reason.

Why aren’t we investing a little bit more in making something people can actually own and afford to own? My dad was a car guy too and he always said that it was designed that way on purpose. It doesn’t have to be that way. That’s exactly why my father quit General Motors. He wrote a whole book about it, got him in a lot of

Chrissy Crutchfield: trouble.

There’s no money in keeping cars.

Kat DeLorean: Yeah. He said, why are you doing this? I don’t agree. And testified before Congress about it. It’s a big thing that has been in existence forever. And it’s time that we do something to stop the bleeding. And it terrifies me that we’re not thinking about the fact that we might be creating fast fashion with cars.

by not thinking about the life [00:22:00] cycle of these EVs. I’m not anti EV. I’m anti rushing EV all overnight without actually thinking about the implications of our future. That’s all.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. I can’t wait to see the pendulum swing back to, Oh, we’re doing research on ice engines again. This isn’t panning out how we thought like the

Sara Lacey: return of vinyl,

Kat DeLorean: what people don’t understand about internal combustion engines is it’s internal combustion.

That’s not internal oil burning engine. You can do a lot of different things. What if you use some of the new carbon capture technology? There’s carbon capture technology that now prints carbon fiber. Stick it on your tailpipe and spit out carbon fiber and print a new car. I mean, like, there’s so many

Carolyn Ford: different things.

Kat, you’re blowing my mind because now, I’m sorry, I’m thinking about Back to the Future. Your dad’s car and the

Kat DeLorean: professor put garbage in it. Yeah. Go. Okay. So did you know that there’s an acid that if you put an aluminum can in it, it turns to hydrogen gas. And I [00:23:00] literally said to my husband, there you go, Mr.

Fusion, build it, make it happen. But that’s what we should be looking at is alternatives, not just. The one we should be looking at what are different fuels that we could use that could maybe balance things out. Also, my father, when he was building his car, he was investing research into a sterling engine, which is fascinating.

Are we looking into flywheels and kinetic engines, gyroscopic technology, different batteries, all sorts of different, right?

Carolyn Ford: Which that brings up a question for me. Here’s going to show my full idiocy with the hybrids. Why can’t the kinetic energy of just moving recharge the engine? Why do we even have to have

Kat DeLorean: a hybrid?

That’s a fascinating, wonderful, amazing question. It has a lot to do with the energy required to actually push the car forward in different situations. A great way to answer that question would be to drive with your son in his Prius. Because they have a screen that I was obsessed with. [00:24:00] If I could watch all the time, you can coast and watch it recharge your battery.

Yeah. We haven’t quite gotten to the point yet where we can generate enough power, but we’ve done a lot of research into that. And that’s one of the things that my father and I were developing an engine that was based on the Stirling engine concept that would go from New York to California and a teaspoon of gas.

It was hybrid, but it would only use a teaspoon of gas if you never shut the car actually off. It’s possible up until this point, it was a lot more difficult because in order to do a lot of that, the computer efficiency, the programming, the timing has to be so specific and powerful that we hadn’t quite gotten there yet.

But technology has gotten to a point of where we’re probably going to see some of those engines coming in the near future, if we don’t. Spend all of our research dollars on Eevee.

Carolyn Ford: See, I thought you were just going to say, because Carolyn’s science, that’s why you can’t do it. No, you can, you can do it.

Kat DeLorean: I

Executive Producer Tania: would be [00:25:00] remiss if I didn’t speak for Eric since he’s being very good about not interjecting.

He’s dying. Alternators on all the wheels.

Kat DeLorean: Yes, yes. That’s actually part of what is in the design of the engine we were working on. Because that’s important is the four independent alternators in the wheels generate the power.

Executive Producer Tania: Alright, so let’s circle back a moment. So Carolyn, how familiar are you with all the different brands of EVs out there on the market right now?

You know Tesla, you know the hybrid that’s the Prius, but full electric vehicles. Do you have knowledge around what your options are when you’re trying to make this decision?

Carolyn Ford: Not really. I mean, I googled, I test drove a Tesla. It was really pretty. I liked the lights. I did not like when I would take my foot off the gas.

It was like stepping on the brake. Didn’t like that.

Emily Fox: Oh, that’s the best. Okay. Well, I guess you get used to it,

Carolyn Ford: Emily. It really, I was like, wait, what’s happening? It was fun to drive and I drove a Genesis, but I [00:26:00] forget who, what’s the, what kind of car is that?

Sara Lacey: That’s the brand. Hyundai. It’s the luxury arm of Hyundai.

Correct.

Carolyn Ford: There you go. Okay. Also fun and very pretty. I liked the little ball thing in the middle. That’s about all I know. There’s a lot. The year

Executive Producer Tania: 2023 available and I didn’t fact check this number, but at least have a list of 43 different. I’m not surprised. EVs that are available and it spans. And probably you don’t want a GMC Hummer, but nonetheless, there’s Hummer, there’s Ford, there’s Rivian.

Those are going to be pickup trucks. You’ve got various different Audi models. You’ve got the outrageously priced Porsches. You’ve got Jaguar has an entry, Volvo, Emily has one, Cadillacs, BMWs, you know the Genesis already, Tesla, of course, the Nissans, because Nissan Leaf has been around for a while, right?

They’ve got a few other. Models as well. You’ve got Kia has entered the fray for a while now. And VW got the ID four, the new ID seven, all that stuff. Toyota obviously [00:27:00] is in the mix.

Carolyn Ford: I’m really impressed with the Prius. Like I said, my son’s Prius is almost 20 years old. And he’s driving it in Utah, cold and Utah snow.

And it’s still going the same

Kat DeLorean: battery. When they first came out with it, my dad told me to go buy one. That’s why I ended up buying one. He said, they are selling this car for less than what it costs them to make, to get this technology out there. And he was really impressed with how the, I loved that car.

I loved driving it every day. It was so much fun. Very well made. So what’s

Carolyn Ford: the hybrid I

Kat DeLorean: should buy? You should do what works for you. So you like to go to the cold. That’s another thing about EV, your battery drains. Think about when you take out your phone or think about ghosts or is like, Oh, it gets colder.

And my battery drained in my thing. So you have to consider your life right now. And when it comes to what you buy, feel good about what you buy. So you’re asking what hybrid. You should buy that should be based around what is it that you like to do and what’s going to fit your needs. [00:28:00] And also you can consider how the hybrid functions when it comes back to the charging back of the battery and different things, because there are different ways you can drive the car to get a lot more gas mileage, different ways you can feel better about it.

The question I would have for you is you described that you want to be going. Skiing and making these long drives, what’s more important to you having a lot more space so that if you have more stuff to take with you, you don’t have to worry or the ability to zip around and not have to worry. Do you want something a little more fun to drive or something that can fit all your stuff?

No matter what, that’s where you start.

Carolyn Ford: Yeah, I would consider the Toyota hybrid just because I’ve been so impressed with the Prius. That’s the one that I would lean towards. But it would need to be bigger because I got an 85 pound dog that takes up half the car and then I got the rest of my gear. Have you seen

Kat DeLorean: the bigger Priuses?

Yeah, they have new, bigger Priuses. They have like little mini SUVs and the new one is so [00:29:00] beautiful. Like it got all kinds of press coverage for being just really

Emily Fox: cool

Kat DeLorean: looking. How much? It looks like they start at 27, 000 and the XLE, the bigger one is about around 40. That’s all.

Executive Producer Tania: What’s your price range, Carolyn?

Where do you live in your mind? Where would you want to be? Because that’s going to exclude a lot of your choices. Yes, it is. Straight at EVs.

Carolyn Ford: Honestly, Kat, what you just said about the Prius is shocking. I paid for my CRV and I got like the top of the line brand new, like no miles on it. And I paid 48 for it.

Now that was in 2017, so to get a Prius hybrid, I’m surprised that it’s about the same price. What do I want to pay? Like, I don’t know, 5, 000 or something. 5, 000, nothing. Is

Executive Producer Tania: there a radio shack around still? Get you a little remote control car for bad reasons. Duracell Energizer. Again,

Carolyn Ford: I paid 8, 000 for it, but used.

But yeah, no, I expect to pay about 50, 000 to get, like, all the comforts. And I don’t want to [00:30:00] pay a subscription for my heated seats. That’s not here yet. Right? So the heated seats, super important to me. Like, these are the things I look for. Is the heated seat kind of thing.

Executive Producer Tania: You have narrowed my field of 43 significantly by saying you want to be, we’ll call it between 40

and 60.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s a chunk of cars that sit there. And then I think the next question has to be based on your passions and hobbies and use case. How far do you want to go on a charge? Because that’s going to narrow your window even further.

Carolyn Ford: There’s a place in the desert that I go to fairly often. It’s about three and a half hours from here.

So it’s not fair because I do stop for gas halfway. I don’t want to stop and charge. If I could stop and charge as fast as I could fill up with gas, no problem. But I’m not going to stop and charge for 45 minutes.

Executive Producer Tania: So let’s say you need to at least hit a 300 mile mark. Yeah. In the 40 to 60, 000 range. We’ve narrowed it down.

That’s a small group. The seven cars. [00:31:00] And it will fit my dog.

Carolyn Ford: There’s seven that will fit the criteria.

Executive Producer Tania: I’ve got the Mach E, the Ford F 150. That’ll fit your dog in the back. The Cadillac Lyrik, the BMW i4, which I don’t think would fit your dog. I’m not sure which size that one is. That’s the little one or not.

The Ioniq 5, which is small, probably won’t fit your dog, but it’s a nice car. The Ariya, which is the Nissan, and then the larger Kia EV6, which apparently we just learned costs less than the Ioniq 5.

Carolyn Ford: Well, but I’m also very concerned about what you’ve brought up, Kat. If these cars are really only gonna last eight, ten years, that makes me sick to my stomach.

That feels worse than burning fossil fuel right now, to me.

Kat DeLorean: We haven’t gotten there yet, but there is no plan for what’s gonna happen to these cars. If we’re not talking about it, we should be, because yeah, that’s it, if we’re creating a bunch of throwaway cars. What’s going to happen to them? Are we recycling them?

Are we reusing the parts? By the way, the [00:32:00] 40, 000 included a 5, 000 markup. So the highest MSRP is only 35, 000, which is kind of mind blowing. I want to go buy a breeze

Sara Lacey: now. I do too. There’s so many pieces to this. It’s bonkers. But basically you have the federal tax credit. It used to apply to any EV. That you bought.

And then as of this summer, it became any EV that was made in America. And so a lot of these credits are being shifted away from the Hyundai’s and the Kia’s and all this. And I think that it has provided incentive for those manufacturers to start wanting to build back in America. I think that’s. The lofty goal there, but it’s also important to be mindful that you cannot take that credit for granted.

You have to determine whether or not the car that you are looking at is eligible for that. And then you might have some state incentives and whatnot. Again, it’s not as black and white as [00:33:00] we’re used to everything being just a regular internal combustion car purchase.

Executive Producer Tania: There are more factory options. BMW is building in this country, Volkswagen, Toyota.

They

Emily Fox: actually are going to be building EVs in a Kentucky plant, I heard.

Executive Producer Tania: Breaking news. Mercedes have plans. I think there’s even plans for more manufacturers to do that because it is. More beneficial to be near your market.

Emily Fox: Michigan actually just started a whole initiative to try to get more manufacturing in state from some of these automotive manufacturers.

They’re not the only ones either. This is a whole big push that’s happening across the industry.

Kat DeLorean: That’s actually the entire business model we have is to rebuild Detroit. It’s all built around bringing manufacturing back and providing jobs and taking the hit so that the manufacturers who want to keep making their own money.

And I’ll just do my not for profit thing over here.

Carolyn Ford: See, but there again, I will go back to the whole maintenance thing. Like if I blow a tire, if I crack a [00:34:00] windshield.

Sara Lacey: My Tesla, my husband was driving it and got in an accident. So I am also the current owner of a 2022 Nissan Rogue Sport as my rental car.

Carolyn Ford: Okay. So Sara, you just brought up some stuff like when you get in an accident or blow a tire, what the hell do you do? Or even crack a windshield. Aren’t they like super expensive and even hard to replace? So, this is actually the

Sara Lacey: second time that my car’s gotten hit. Neither time has been our fault, so the other people’s insurance paid for it.

The second time is definitely going to be more because the impact ruined some parking sensors and some other sensors. And it was just more extensive. Before that, did not have a whole lot of repairs on my old car. So, when I did have repairs, it was Very inexpensive. So I would have sticker shock if I were to be paying for this repair myself.

The problem that I’m experiencing currently, and I’d be [00:35:00] curious to know, I haven’t done a whole lot of homework about it, is taking an extraordinarily long time, even to just get into the shop. The administrative piece of it, it’s been frustrating once it’s. In the shop, like the first time it took them about a month and a half.

And it was just basically a bumper and a new lift gate repair that took a significant period of time. I think that was six and a half weeks.

Emily Fox: Isn’t that usually just because Tesla is the only company that’s manufacturing those bumpers and those parking sensors. They don’t have sources that can manufacture it for them after market.

They’re so tightly held on that. It’s not surprising. It’s taking that long.

Sara Lacey: I think there are more of them out on the road now. So there’s just more volume of cars to be repaired. Yep. So I think that they’re having a tough time keeping up now. The caveat to that is that we did want to go to the Tesla shop and not to one of their approved vendors.

So I was being very picky about that just because I’m so nervous. [00:36:00] Because there’s sensor damage here. I was feeling like, Ooh, I’m just really not sure. I want to navigate that and worry about whether or not that’s going to be a repair that’s not up to snuff.

Carolyn Ford: So when you say sticker shock, like how big of

Sara Lacey: a

Carolyn Ford: sticker shock?

Sara Lacey: My current estimate, just what the insurance estimate the damage to be before. Even getting in the shop and having them get in there and look at it. It’s already at 4, 800

Chrissy Crutchfield: and estimates tend to be low ball

Sara Lacey: as well, right? And it is not a car you can work on yourself. I mean, maybe there’s somebody out there who could, I am not someone who would feel confident.

Doing that. And of course, then there’s more MT issues.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s too many cameras and sensors

Sara Lacey: probably

Executive Producer Tania: requires special Tesla proprietary computers to hook up and disable this, that, and the other to unlatch the bumper screws or something ridiculous like that. I had a former coworker that had a similar experience in the before times.

So there was no chip shortage or things like that, supply chain issues. And he had just bought a [00:37:00] model three or whatever. I think he had it two days essentially, or a week at most. And he got rear ended by like a city Metro bus. It was at very low speed apparently, but still the rear end bumper damage. It was months that he was back on a rental car.

And it was just like, wow, if it was a Toyota, you’d have been in and out and you know, eight days on your way.

Emily Fox: I heard from someone they had something wrong with one of their Tesla doors and it took them months and months and months of trying to source one and get it painted and they ended up buying a busted up Tesla out of a junkyard or off of a towing company and ended up reinstalling the door that way and they got it paint matched, but that was the only way that they were ever going to get a door for it because doors are going towards New manufactured cars.

You have to buy one that’s totaled to get them.

Carolyn Ford: You guys are totally talking me out of an EV.

Sara Lacey: No,

Carolyn Ford: no,

Sara Lacey: no. There’s so many options. A certain brand. Yeah, Tesla’s not the only one. Tesla’s

Carolyn Ford: not the only one. Am I six weeks [00:38:00] out like Sara? No.

Executive Producer Tania: These days, you’re paying an arm and a leg if you crack a windshield, no matter what it is, because these windshields with the fancy sensors are like ridiculous.

Chrissy Crutchfield: Speaking of windshields, back to Caroline’s question, is that not covered under your comprehensive deductible? So like 250 or even zero deductible?

Carolyn Ford: Yeah,

Chrissy Crutchfield: that’s

Carolyn Ford: a good point.

Chrissy Crutchfield: Yeah, so it’s like, that seems sort of moot.

Carolyn Ford: Well, other than getting it in.

Chrissy Crutchfield: And so I want to say it was within a month, we had to replace the windshield on the ID for because a truck kicked up a rock and took it out

Emily Fox: while

Chrissy Crutchfield: safely claims they can repair it and do the programming they couldn’t.

Right. So what had happened was we had to take it to Volkswagen. They had to reprogram it. We had to pay 700 for them to reprogram it, and then we sent the receipt for that back to Safe Flight, and they reimbursed us.

Carolyn Ford: How [00:39:00] long did that whole process take, though, too? Again, lazy. It was about a month.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, I think everything’s just going to take longer with EVs because the tech is so much deeper.

And there’s just not an abundance of it.

And

Executive Producer Tania: then there’s not an abundance of workers or shops to go to that are certified or understand the technology and can do all those replacements. So at this juncture with it’s still being so new and sort of in its infancy, it’s just going to be a lot harder than my Toyota Corolla, blah, blah, blah, Honda Civic.

And I, you know, a week later, I’ve got it fixed with parts from advanced auto.

Chrissy Crutchfield: A lot of the new cars, it’s all like the. Distance control, whatever other crap that’s in the windshield, they’re all taking just as long to get that stuff. And they’re probably going through that same process. So that’s not exclusive to EVs.

Carolyn Ford: Well, my CRB just has plain glass.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes. I like that. Mine do too. They

Sara Lacey: don’t sense the weather. Yeah. Your tires are going to be regular tires. Yeah. You might want to get like [00:40:00] a low rolling resistance tire, but you can do regular tires. And especially since you’re in Utah, you can put on all weather. A winter tire.

Now you’re not going to be as efficient with a winter tire and all of this, but you can do that. So some of the basic things you’re okay on and that is the benefit of going with an EV from a known manufacturer and an established manufacturer. So those parts are going to be much easier to come by and much easier to replace.

Versus something new like a Rivian or a Tesla or Alpha or Fisker or Lucid.

Executive Producer Tania: So Chrissy, cause you’ve had regular Volkswagen’s we’ll call them gasoline powered, and now you have the electric Volkswagen. Do you feel like you’re in a Volkswagen when you’re in the ID4 or was it something totally different?

Meaning to say Volkswagen’s a Volkswagen. So you can have that comfort and know what you’re getting.

Chrissy Crutchfield: It’s a Volkswagen. Absolutely. It’s comfortable. We like it. I still have problems with. Getting used to the things that the car wants to do for me. I still like to have [00:41:00] control. The worst part. Yeah.

Carolyn Ford: Wait, what do you mean?

Chrissy Crutchfield: What does it want to do for you? Well, to conserve energy, you’re supposed to use like adaptive cruise control. And so it’s spaces. The vehicles for you based on whatever the camera’s telling you. My CRV does that too, and I don’t like it. And I hate it because even though Mike has it sort of like as close as it can be, because we might be a little bit of the tailgaters, but People can still cut you off.

Well, and that too. And so it’s like, I don’t want to drop five miles per hour because I’m just getting ever so slightly too close to a car. So I hate that.

Emily Fox: I love my adaptive cruise control. It took a lot of getting used to and it was terrifying for a while, but it’s much nicer. I will say though, just generally the adaptive cruise control technology, even in EVs or whatever kind of car it is, has a long way to go before like some of that gets smoothed out so that the experience as a driver [00:42:00] is a little bit more friendly and less.

terrifying and an association with whatever your kind of like principles are, but your point, Carolyn, about somebody cutting you off, that is the most irritating thing. And my dad has made comments about how much he loves cutting off EVs that have adaptive cruise control on because the driver gets all frustrated and flustered.

It is what it is. But you can certainly disable those things.

Sara Lacey: I don’t drive with really any of that enabled because I don’t like cruise control on an internal combustion engine. I mean, it makes me crazy. I don’t like to not feel like I know exactly what the car is doing at all times. There’s a lot that you can work on that with, but that would be something that you would want to pay attention to when you do a test drive.

What can I turn off? What can I adjust so that I feel comfortable and confident?

Executive Producer Tania: I love cruise control. I cruise control through traffic.

Carolyn Ford: I do too.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s amazing. Again,

Carolyn Ford: lazy. My ankle gets tired, but also I will get a ticket if I don’t cruise control. [00:43:00]

Executive Producer Tania: Emily, same question, because you’ve got the Volvo EV right now and I believe you have past history with regular Volvos.

Emily Fox: we have a lot of Volvos.

Executive Producer Tania: Are you getting the same Volvos of all those same experience? You’re comfortable, you’re, you’re recognizing that you have, or is it something totally disparate?

Emily Fox: So let’s be clear. A Volvo is not always a Volvo. We have a Volvo 480 turbo and that looks nothing like any of the other Volvos that exist in the market.

It is a nice interior. It’s well made. It meets kind of like my style expectations on the interior. I don’t look like somebody super glued an iPad to the dash and it doesn’t look like I’m sitting in the middle of a cockpit with just glass everywhere that you see with the Mercedes EQS, it’s a little insane, but it’s nice.

It’s comfortable. I definitely get the safety features that one would expect from Volvo and they’re very noticeable and I enjoy them.

Sara Lacey: I wanted to say and emphasize that a plug in hybrid might really be a nice middle ground for Carolyn to consider. [00:44:00] It’s kind of the best of all worlds. You’re going to have an engine, so you’re going to have the safety of not having range anxiety.

That a lot of people perceive as a hurdle towards EV ownership, you’re going to have the regenerative braking. Even when you drive and your battery depletes, you can charge it up again. You can plug it in at night. It’s going to be a small amount of charge, but you can plug it in just to a regular outlet and get a few miles each night and, you know, enough to maybe get a couple of errands done and get out on the road.

So I would. Really advise you to consider that if you kind of feel like the full EV may not be right for you But you still want to consider something Different and kind of new frontier ish

Executive Producer Tania: sort of a stepping stone to EV if you’re not fully ready to commit yet Go that middle ground where you’re slowly kind of getting into that EV range without fully committing yet [00:45:00]

Sara Lacey: Right and like Kat said if you have these long trips that you’re taking all the time and you don’t want to be Sitting at a charging station for however long during those trips.

It’s really potentially a good option.

Executive Producer Tania: All right, so we’ve narrowed your field down considerably.

Carolyn Ford: I’m sorry, but Kat’s already convinced me I’m going for this. All right, so. We’re done. We’re

Executive Producer Tania: done. Switching gears. So now on to What Should I Buy? Hybrid Edition. How can carolyn’s go about starting this journey, this process, any recommendations?

I mean, obviously if you’re looking for new, new, you’re going to a new car dealership, but these days, is that still have the same relevancy as it once did? Are there other means?

Chrissy Crutchfield: When we bought the Tundra back in July, they’re not taking custom orders for Toyotas. And that may have changed since then, but it’s basically go to the dealer.

You tell them what you want. And they’ll try to get as close as they can with it. Like they took what colors we wanted, what features we [00:46:00] absolutely needed. And it’s like, Hey, we’ve got this coming in on the truck. And then next couple of weeks, does this work for you? That’s how Toyota did it.

Emily Fox: Very similar with mine.

I ended up placing two orders for the same car through two different dealers to try to get the car I wanted because Volvo shut off the ability to build your own custom car with whatever package options you wanted in extra features. So I was. Talking to two different dealers to see which one was going to get here first off of the boat.

And one of them, I had an order in with Volvo USA. And that was the one that happened to come in like just a few weeks early. It was incredibly frustrating. It took 68 weeks after I placed the order, but some people, they were waiting six months. At least

Executive Producer Tania: so just like shopping for anything else, go to the store to look at it, then go home, get online and buy it off Amazon.

Sara Lacey: Yeah, that’s about right. That’s not uncommon for any car right now. It’s just been that way. But I would say that because you are looking at making a change from [00:47:00] your current Car to potentially a hybrid, some type of EV. I do think auto shows are still good for that because you’re going to find that the cargo space and the seating space is going to feel a little different because you know, how you use your space is not always a thing where you can say, Oh, this car has.

Such and such cubic feet of cargo, you know, maybe you’re carrying a dog kennel, maybe you’re carrying skis, all of those different pieces, they to me that maybe an auto show would be a good fit for you and you could walk around and you may not be able to order that car just yet, but at least you can have a sense of how that’s going to work differently for you.

Kat DeLorean: I agree. That’s a great way. When I’m looking for a new type of car and it doesn’t matter the manufacturer, the auto shows the first place I go. You said you drive a CRV. Yes. So the hybrid CRVs it’s 40 grand. There you go. You can just go with the same car you drive.

Carolyn Ford: Ta da sold. [00:48:00] I finished my last payment on the CRV maybe six months ago.

It’s been so nice. Cause I don’t have maintenance fees yet. And no car payment has been just like so nice. So the idea of getting a car payment again kind of makes me sick to my stomach. And that

Kat DeLorean: was my father’s point. Why is this a thing that we are married to? Why is this normalized? Why is your second biggest payment something you just accept making for Ever.

Forever. Until the end of death. Yeah. I’m

Carolyn Ford: enjoying no car payment right now.

Kat DeLorean: So screw the planet? No, I’m sorry.

Executive Producer Tania: Basically, yes. Hashtag team dead dinosaurs all the way.

Kat DeLorean: No. I’m actually looking at how to convert my diesel to like used cooking oil. Save the planet and you know, save my car.

Executive Producer Tania: The other problem in all of this that always gets glazed over too is The big bad oil, you know, oh, [00:49:00] we hate them, blah, blah, blah.

Well, the problem is gasoline and diesel, especially nowadays are byproducts of all the other stuff that everyone’s not willing to give up in life. Plastics, makeup, all sorts of adhesives. The asphalt on the road that we drive our cars on, that is all a result of crude oil transformation in a refinery.

And I don’t believe there’s a world where you could possibly never have gasoline and diesel because you could keep destroying those down into smaller components that then could be chemical feedstocks to make all our plastics and stuff like that. But there’s a cost associated with doing that. It doesn’t make sense at a certain point.

So then suddenly my pen here is going to cost me. 30 because my raw material goods is so expensive, right? So that goes back to this balance of don’t put all your eggs in one basket. We can significantly decrease volumes of things, but I don’t see where you’re ever going to get rid of it entirely.

Emily Fox: Has anybody [00:50:00] considered evaluating whether or not their older classic car is worth an EV upgrade?

Executive Producer Tania: Eric’s very happy with that.

Carolyn Ford: What do you mean an

Executive Producer Tania: EV upgrade? You can do that? Yeah. Have been some people that have taken older like Jaguars and things like that. And they’ll go buy a Tesla battery pack, motor, whatever. And they’ll stick it in there. Or there are people that are crazy enough to do that.

Chrissy Crutchfield: I just saw an article about, I forget what it was he was converting, but I just sort of, I was like, Oh, cool.

Emily Fox: It’s a neat way of getting it back to that tactile and still being able to work hands on on your car, because if you’re the one that’s actually doing the work and putting it in, you’ll know those systems very well. Ideally, they’re ones that you designed or ones that you worked with a company to make sure that you had all the parts for.

That market is so young. I know that there’s a shop EV West in California that will take some. Classic older cars and they’ll convert them to EVs for you. I think they’ve been popularized with Volkswagen bugs from a really long time ago

Executive Producer Tania: doing [00:51:00] torches for a while.

Emily Fox: Yeah It’s a neat alternative if you can get over how you’re getting that electricity to the car to charge it in the first place But for some of those smaller cars, you can get great performance out of them.

Kat DeLorean: There’s also a new three wheeled EV coming out Made by Malcolm Bricklin, that’s a whole lot of fun to drive. You know, you should check that one out too.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. So now that we’ve solved Carolyn’s next purchase debacle, have we, have we, I don’t know, I don’t know. I’m probing, I’m probing the Honda CRV hybrid that does exist.

So that there’s already 2023 models for that. So that might pique your interest, but I guess would that satisfy what you’re looking for? It’d be. more of the same of what you already have. It’d be very comfortable. Or are you looking to further branch out?

Carolyn Ford: Actually, that feels really good to me, other than the car payment.

Maybe I’m just really justifying my part in screwing the planet.

Kat DeLorean: Think about all of the carbon that went into manufacturing the new car. And you’re keeping your old car on the road. So you [00:52:00] can’t say I’m being a bad steward of the environment because I’m not doing this thing. There’s also other things you can do to get better gas mileage out of the car that you’re driving.

And again, other ways to offset the carbon that you create, just drive responsibly and respectably do the best you can with what you have. Understand that it’s not all black and white, there’s return on investment in intangible things in corporate world. So if you think about people equate things to dollars and cents, this iPad costs a certain amount of money.

And if I break this iPad, or if something happens to it, I can put A dollar amount on it, but people don’t think about if my system goes down, I also have people hours for every person that I pay 15 an hour, whatever that adds up. Just like, I wonder what it costs for BMW to charge people for those heated seats.

They have to pay people to support them and to charge people and the infrastructure. People don’t think about those dollars and cents. So it’s not all black and white. I have felt

Carolyn Ford: really guilty [00:53:00] about driving the car that I’m driving. It’s kind of a gas guzzler. I checked it today. It averages 25 miles to the gallon.

I don’t feel as guilty. All of your points. I’m hearing you guys. It’s not black and white.

Sara Lacey: I want to let you off the hook a little bit about that too. Cause to Kat’s point, there’s a lot that goes into this. And as you move forward through this process. Maybe the right thing to do is to keep your car that you have right now and either just proceed as normal or figure out if your driving habits can create more fuel efficiency.

You can also determine a threshold for you as you learn. For example, I went to the launch of a Toyota BZ concept, and they were talking all about Zero emissions and their new goal of being carbon neutral to the cat’s point. We want every piece of this car to be something that will either be reused or will be offset in some way, shape, or form.

They [00:54:00] obviously don’t have a timeline for that yet. Kind of the lofty goal, but you can also decide as a consumer to do your homework and figure out how important that is to you. And when you’re ready to pull the trigger on a new purchase, you can make that decision a part of your purchase. You know, when I bought my car, it was only in 2021, but it felt like there were no other options.

And the luxury of this right now is that you do, including the option not to buy. You can move forward in this process, thinking about what is the thing that makes me feel the worst? Is it. The perception that I’m a horrible person. Yeah, that’s the one gas in my car, or is it really that I’ve never taken care of the car and there’s a big black cloud coming out of the back or whatever.

I think you need to understand that it’s okay to maintain status quo. And even if you decide that you want an internal combustion engine that is more efficient for your new [00:55:00] car, that’s a good thing too.

Carolyn Ford: Yeah. You guys have made me feel really good about myself. I’m not going to lie.

Kat DeLorean: You know, what’s amazing is, is there’s so much in our lives that we do, decisions we make and choices, the way we treat ourselves that are based on these ideas we have in our head about what other people think about us.

I had this really profound experience with this lately, where I was struggling with something at work, and then I heard my curriculum director describing her struggles with the same exact thing. And then I said, you know, it’s really nice that you shared that with me because I felt a little less alone.

And she said, You know, I said to myself, If this badass hacker who did this for 20 years is getting stuck on the same thing, maybe I’m not so bad. I said, Wow! I said, If my badass curriculum director who can learn all these things is getting stuck, maybe I’m not so bad. So here both of us were beating up on ourselves, thinking the other one was the coolest thing on the planet.

It was all in our head. You’re making decisions based on what you think is outside of your space. Examine your whole life. I guarantee you that there are things in your [00:56:00] life that you’re doing that are causing far more damage to the environment than driving your car, that you can actually take action on now to feel better about what you’re doing and then take this.

in stride. Make a decision based on what’s good for you. Understand the implications of changing car that you have. Maybe buy a used CRV hybrid that has a lower car payment and is something that somebody already had the carbon that went into developing it and now you’re just swapping one for the other.

There’s a lot of different things and you have to first forgive yourself for what’s in your own head. That nobody else is thinking about you. Absolutely.

Carolyn Ford: Cause I have done some research, but to listen to each one of you who actually are pretty passionate about this, have experience in this, you’re experts in this area and to hear the different angles and to hear all the considerations that each of you have taken has been very helpful.

You know, you can rat hole on the research and looking at the different cars and then I’m like, I don’t know, is the CRV hybrid good? I don’t know. But [00:57:00] it’s been really helpful with listening to all of you and your experience.

Executive Producer Tania: Since we seemingly solved her car debacle, going back to EVs in general, and we’ll take your criteria off specifically and use the criteria of kind of a general everyday car, what would we recommend to somebody?

Looking for a pure EV that kind of meets your going to work every day, whatever we want to call a normal mileage commute is. I go to the grocery store and a couple extra things during the week. I’ve got 2. 1 kids and a dog, maybe, maybe not. What would be that all around? Is it the Volvo? Is it the ID4? Is it something else?

Is it the Tesla?

Kat DeLorean: I think it all depends on your price range and what you need to do with it. How big does it need to be? Really give me a lucid air. Right. I know. Oh

Emily Fox: my God. Have you seen the alphas too? Those are gorgeous. The Fisker Ocean. That looks like a fat beluga whale. It’s so adorable.

Sara Lacey: Okay. So I [00:58:00] think what I would say the other significant question is.

And it’s so counterintuitive, but how are you going to charge? I think the answer is different. If you are going to be able to charge at home, it’s not wildly different, but you are going to have a different experience of EV ownership if you are charging out in the world. And it’s a serious part of the EV conversation right now, because so many people don’t own their homes and they may not live somewhere where they can just plug in when they get home at night.

For me, that would be. A number one thing you have to ask yourself.

Emily Fox: I would add on and say, do you enjoy driving? I think driving is one of those things that everybody can fall in love with, with the right car and with the right time and the right set of things off of their mind. I love my XC40 recharge and I would buy another one because I enjoy the experience, but as of late, I’m looking at whether or not a Polestar is.

In my future at some [00:59:00] point or an alpha or a lucid or something that’s newer cutting edge to kind of push the envelope of what EVs could be in America 20 or 30 years from now, because I want to see the market do well. And I want to see us to be more economically responsible with how we’re developing and building these cars for consumers.

Kat DeLorean: When you say Alfa EV, what are you talking about? The

Emily Fox: Alfa Motors Ace and the Wolf that they have. Those are some pretty awesome things. They also have the Saga.

Kat DeLorean: I want to see that.

Emily Fox: Oh yeah. They’re classic retro designs. They’re beautiful.

Executive Producer Tania: Not talking about Alfa Romeo, unfortunately.

Emily Fox: No, probably not.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, look at that.

Emily Fox: Aren’t they cool? Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: They’re the ones that have the pickup truck that looks like the one from Back to the Future that Marty drove. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m not a pickup truck person, but that one’s. Pretty cool. That is really neat. I like it. If I don’t bring this one up, Eric will be very sad because his current answer is Machi Machi Machi.

What do people think about Ford’s [01:00:00] Machi value for money? It’s fully loaded. I think it’s more closer to the 50, 000 range. So you’re somewhere between 000 for this. You get a little bit over 300 miles of range. It’s a Ford that could deter you. That could make you happy. I don’t know.

Kat DeLorean: I will never date somebody who drives the Mustang period.

End of conversation.

Oh,

Kat DeLorean: that’s just it. My girlfriend, she would never speak to me again. So, I mean, it’s an F body thing. However, I met the guy in charge of the new Mustang launch and on my board is a key chain because he was a fabulous man. So there is that, but that’s my response to the Mach E.

Executive Producer Tania: Ladies and gentlemen, the only Ford cat will own that key chain.

Kat DeLorean: That’s actually not true. Cause I drive a Ford F 250. I love my Ford truck. I love Ford trucks. So I just can’t drive specifically a Mustang or date anybody who drives a Mustang. It goes back to my first car was a Z28 in the [01:01:00] nineties. And that was the, the heat of the Mustang Camaro shootout. It’s like ingrained.

in my teenagerdom that I can’t, I must hate all mistakes.

Emily Fox: I think the Mach E isn’t a bad purchase. It’s not like my taste. Ford is Ford. If you like Fords, go with Mach E. If you’re trying to look for an EV, they have a good range. They’ve got some good pep seen that they handle well, but I have not personally driven one.

Carolyn Ford: I’m looking at one right now. It says it’s 80, 000. Like there’s a range. Of course you find the 80,

Executive Producer Tania: 000 one.

Kat DeLorean: I personally really want the F 150. The lightning? I just passed one on the

Executive Producer Tania: road the other day.

Kat DeLorean: I got married in a lightning version. So the Harley Davidson F 150, it was a lightning edition F 150. So that has a little bit of something to do with it.

But that’s the one EV that sparked my interest. True interest. So no Cybertruck. No, no. Making cars out of stainless steel is stupid.

Emily Fox: I just think the Cybertruck is stupid.

Kat DeLorean: Little known [01:02:00] fact, it was because he couldn’t afford a paint factory for three billion dollars and he knew somebody who could actually forge the stainless steel and then his genius was making it seem intentional.

Oh,

Executive Producer Tania: and who knows if that figment of Musk’s imagination will ever actually.

Kat DeLorean: I can tell you from trying to actually make one car out of stainless steel, there’s no way. When my dad made it out of stainless steel, stainless was actually cheaper than aluminum because aluminum was only provided to the aerospace industry.

So he would have made it out of brushed aluminum. If he could have, it just was way too expensive. Making something out of stainless today, especially when it’s so much harder to come by when all appliances are made by it, I can’t even get a sheet of it. So how he’s going to build many cars. I don’t know.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s a great question. Nobody knows. Already four years behind. Allegedly it’s this year, but probably not. They still haven’t figured out the laser beams for the windshield wipers yet. So they can’t, you know, go to production yet. To start closing out, and I’m going [01:03:00] to point at Sara, so are there any new features that are really cool that people should be looking for in their new car, EV or otherwise, really?

And, you know, what are some tips and tricks or do’s and don’ts about going on this journey?

Sara Lacey: People are looking for new cars every day from anything from two years ago, you know, beyond. That’s what I’m thinking of when you’re thinking of new features. I came back to this world of actually buying a car after owning my car for 10 years.

And I had stepped away from riding for a while. So I was just really surprised at how tech heavy everything was. You know, new features that you should look for in a new car that might help ease that transition to me are something like Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Pat had kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but every manufacturer has their own kind of in house multimedia system.

Some of those are easier to use than others. [01:04:00] So I find that using something like Apple CarPlay and ease that transition. If not be something that I use completely, depending on the car that I’m driving.

Carolyn Ford: I would really like, have they solved the problem of using my nav on my phone, putting it on my display in my car?

Sara Lacey: That’s what Apple CarPlay will do for you. The only caveat is that if you are driving somewhere where you’re going to lose coverage, like where your phone would drop off or where you don’t have service. You’re not going to be able to see that navigation happening. So the benefit of it when it’s in the car system is that it’s usually a downloaded map that’s in the system.

So you can go through the desert and still get the directions directly from the car.

Executive Producer Tania: More advancements in that particular feature set because Mercedes just. Revealed that they’re joining a partnership with Google and specifically to use their navigation technology in their new vehicles. Yeah, that’s right all that.

Carolyn Ford: Right. It’s the interface that I don’t like [01:05:00] in my car. It’s just enough different than what I use on Google Maps.

Sara Lacey: Right.

Carolyn Ford: I have never used the navigation system in my CRV because I can’t figure out how to use the damn interface.

Kat DeLorean: See, that’s really funny because that’s one of the things that I asked when trying to design our cars.

I said, why does anybody put all this tech in the car anymore? Nobody uses it. Why don’t they just create something that will magnify your phone screen?

Sara Lacey: Absolutely.

Kat DeLorean: Hello? Because I don’t know anybody who uses the navigation in their car, especially since it goes. Like, you have to update it after a while, so what’s the point?

Why do we spend all this money on navigation nobody uses?

Sara Lacey: I will say a lot of cars now will have a wireless charging pad for your phone, and I’ve seen a lot of innovative ways of doing that. In the new Corvette, there’s like a vertical charging pad back here, which is so nice. So sometimes it’s vertical.

So if there’s a space saving issue, you can use it that way. But [01:06:00] oftentimes it’s a flat pad, but it creates a space for your phone. And then you can connect via Bluetooth and have everything talking to your phone, which is really fun.

Executive Producer Tania: So is there anything unique to EV car buying when you walk into the dealership and you just feel like you’re going to get swindled every time you go into those places sometimes, is it the same, same, doesn’t matter.

That’s an internal combustion engine. It doesn’t matter that it’s. running off pixie dust? Or are there certain things they try to trap you with? Things that can be confusing that a first time EV buyer should be more mindful of than maybe what they’re used to?

Emily Fox: Depends if you talk to the dealer. If you just go online, like you just go and try out the car at like an auto show and then go buy it

online.

Emily Fox: I would say it’s the same last minute add ons that they get you for anything else that you walk into the dealership with. I don’t think that there’s anything I recall from my buying experience. That was unique to the EV. They wanted to give me the fancy extra paint protection.

Chrissy Crutchfield: Did they try to sell you the oil change kit or something?

Emily Fox: Yeah, like all those

Chrissy Crutchfield: [01:07:00] stupid

Emily Fox: add on features.

Chrissy Crutchfield: Yeah, you know, the guy who’s doing the financing, it’s like, well, if you get this for an extra 700, and it’s like, yeah,

Emily Fox: it’s an EV, I don’t got to change that.

Kat DeLorean: That’s all ice crap. What about home charging stuff, though? I would think that would be different because they’ll try and sell you a home charging station, right?

Emily Fox: So I didn’t get that with mine. I got a package of like credits with Chargepoint or whatever the other one is, like one of the popular ones, like a free year of charging, anything like that, like a 50 gift certificate off of Chargepoint, whatever it was, I had taken the time to figure out what kind of charger I wanted to install in my house.

I watch YouTube videos based off of temperatures and how those cables wrap mine sits outside that I was going to be able to plug it in and like zero degree weather outside when it’s snowing and not fight a cable that’s stiff. And being

Sara Lacey: aware of those types of programs, like most manufacturers right now are partnering with Electrify America.

Emily Fox: That’s the one.

Sara Lacey: There might also be some with EVgo, but it’s like. [01:08:00] Get three free years of charging. So you want to be sure that if you do purchase that car, that you are getting those kinds of services.

Kat DeLorean: Are you able to finance your home charging station when you buy your car with the car? I don’t

Chrissy Crutchfield: think so.

Or at least it wasn’t that way with Volkswagen. Separate, but then we got a tax credit for the state for the purchase of the charger and install 40 percent back from the state just for the install cost.

Kat DeLorean: That is such a terrible barrier entry point to EV ownership. That is so discriminatory. And like, how much is a charger?

Tens of thousands of dollars. Are you serious and you can’t finance it with your car, you are automatically shutting out an entire segment of our population that cannot afford to do the upfront cost of that. I am so do not. That’s

Sara Lacey: true. You can get a home charging kit. It totally depends on the manufacturer.

So the prices are different per manufacturer. [01:09:00] So they’re usually around 2, 000 give or take. But then you also have to consider whether or not you have the electrical foundation. Like you have to make sure that you have the ability to power that charger. So you need the right kind of amp. You have to have your

Kat DeLorean: house redone by an electrician, which is a cost that I already assumed you had to absorb, which is a significant because I had to do it when I wanted to install a kiln.

It’s also one of the cost barriers. If you want to look at how much it might cost. There’s a lot of information on installing the tankless water heaters. They also require the same type of power to your house. So you can estimate how much it’ll cost. And it’s significant because they have to actually run the power from the power line.

You’ll pay more money from the power company.

Carolyn Ford: Yeah. So it’s not the charger itself. It’s getting the infrastructure to be able to use the charger.

Sara Lacey: Yeah. Usually the only exception to that is if you already have like a two 40 volt outlet in your garage, you can. Retrofit that to make it work with your [01:10:00] charger.

Executive Producer Tania: So now that we’re tacking on an extra 10, to your EV purchase, you have now moved your choice option to still hit a 50, 000 target to the Chevy Bolt.

Kat DeLorean: Actually the Chevy Bolt has a really high satisfaction rating, probably because it’s a 20, 000 EV.

Executive Producer Tania: Your standards are down here. You could also get a Nissan LEAF, a MINI or a Mazda MX 30, but you’re getting 150 mile range at best.

Chrissy Crutchfield: And the thing about the LEAF is depending on where you live, as the infrastructure, especially with Electrify America builds out. They’re not doing the EV charger that’s compatible with the leaf anymore. They’re eliminating the chatty. Good call.

Kat DeLorean: So we’re talking about like an Apple Android charger situation here with these EV infrastructure pretty much.

Chrissy Crutchfield: Yeah. Wow. Most are CCS then there’s the Tesla network and then there’s Chatimo, which was [01:11:00] Mitsu and Nissan. There’s usually one at each of the Electrify America stations I’ve ever been to. And some jerk parks in front of it in their whatever and they block it and then the poor Nissan Leaf pulls up and it’s just like, well, I’m going to wait because I have no choice any

Executive Producer Tania: closing thoughts for our intrepid EV purchasers out there.

Carolyn Ford: You know, I started considering some of the things that all of you guys were throwing out. It’s an important consideration that I even consider keeping my car right now, because like, I looked at the CRV hybrid. I Googled it while we were talking the gas mileage. I don’t know if the gas mileage on the hybrid justifies getting a new car.

It’s not that much better. It’s better. It’s not that much better than the one that I’m already driving. So do I,

Executive Producer Tania: my viewpoint on that is you will never justify a new car purchase. If there’s nothing already wrong with your current car, your current car died, then you have full justification. Everything makes sense.

[01:12:00] You need a new car. But if your car is still going to go another 10, 15 years and your car’s paid for and all you’re doing is regular maintenance and you go turn around and you go 60, for a car. I don’t care what the fuel economy is on that thing. It’s going to take you years. To break back even. It’s

Carolyn Ford: such an important point to consider and I hadn’t thought about that.

So I’m just keeping my CRV.

Kat DeLorean: Take the money that you save on the car payment and invest it in supporting climate science. Yeah, I like that. Just do something that makes you feel better. Also, I would do the math. Because I think if you looked at the numbers and saw exactly how much extra damage you as one human would be doing by not buying a new car.

Now again, I’m all for saving the environment, like I’m all for EVs, I’m all for it, but it has to make sense for you. We can’t make decisions based on what we think other people think of us or what’s going on in our own heads that isn’t reality. So just examine what the reality of the situation is and [01:13:00] if you’re making up things that aren’t real.

Yeah, you’ll be a lot happier if you keep your current car and then just go plant some algae. And it’ll suck up all the CO2. Definitely.

Executive Producer Tania: Just put a pond in your backyard. That algae will come all on its own. No worries. Don’t do it. Okay.

Resounding hybrid is the answer. Hashtag dead dinosaurs. It’s

Emily Fox: entirely Based off of like how you would buy a normal car, you need to consider all of the things that your lifestyle needs, the things that you can afford and what you’re willing to put up with. Maybe an EV is part of that category. Maybe you just don’t want to deal with that headache.

So filter it out of your next internet search.

Kat DeLorean: I agree. I think they’re great for the everyday day to day and you have access to your charging station for the situation we presented. Going on long trips and not wanting to stop. Definitely [01:14:00] not an EV. But there are situations where they work. Unique to everybody.

Depends on who you are and what you need. So last question. Money’s no option. You

Executive Producer Tania: sleep on piles of cash. What EV would you buy?

Chrissy Crutchfield: When they may come out. One of which you stood up next to that technology show.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes, yes, the buzz.

Chrissy Crutchfield: So cool. No, the other one. Oh, which

Executive Producer Tania: other one?

Chrissy Crutchfield: Wasn’t there the ID7? Oh,

Executive Producer Tania: yeah, yeah, yeah.

I went

Chrissy Crutchfield: inside

Executive Producer Tania: the reveal booth. Yep.

Chrissy Crutchfield: That’s what I want.

Executive Producer Tania: Nice. E Ray, Corvette, E Ray. Lucid Air, I think was Emily’s answer, but, or do you want to change it?

Emily Fox: Lucid Air or the brand new Polestar. One of those two.

Executive Producer Tania: Polestar 1 would be really

Carolyn Ford: fun.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah.

Emily Fox: The new Polestar is amazing.

Carolyn Ford: I’m Googling all of these. I don’t even know.

Are

Executive Producer Tania: you happy with your model? Why

Carolyn Ford: Sara, would you

Executive Producer Tania: upgrade?

Sara Lacey: I would say I am happy with the EV experience. My problem that I’ve had with my Tesla is it’s. All screen based and I realized that more and more [01:15:00] as I got out and started testing other cars again, a lot more, I need more than just a screen. So I’m stuck in this space where the Tesla charging network is great and super reliable and fast, but the car itself.

It’s such a frustrating situation. I don’t know that I would buy that car again just based on my in car experience. Especially since there’s so many choices now.

Emily Fox: Good news! Apparently the U. S. government made a deal with Tesla to open up 7, 500 chargers on their networks.

Sara Lacey: I know it’s exciting. And now we just have to

Emily Fox: wait

Sara Lacey: to see how that plays out.

So good point, Emily, for sure. I’m excited about that. And I think obviously it opens a ton of options up for, for me going forward. But if money was no object, what would

Executive Producer Tania: you buy?

Sara Lacey: I feel like I. I had a really great experience with the Mercedes [01:16:00] Benz EQS. Like if I just didn’t have a care in the world and I could drive whatever.

It was beautiful. It was customizable. It was. The frontier of Eevee everythingness, but I’m also super curious about the F one 50 lightning. I’m in Colorado, so I feel like I would love to have a truck experience and see what that’s all about. I also drove. The B-M-W-I-X-M 60, so that’s a performance version of their ix, kind of an SUV.

It was really interesting in that I always thought like a performance version of an EV is ridiculous ’cause like really is, is it diminishing returns, the power and the speed. Could you really tell? And that was a yes . But it’s also an EVs, it’s still not the same as driving a super [01:17:00] powerful internal combustion engine cars.

Executive Producer Tania: Since money is no object, I’m going to go a different route and I don’t want any of the cars listed on my, uh, lists that I curated and I’m going to build my own cars. And I am going to create a retro Fiat Panda EV. Because Fiat Panda is always my answer.

Emily Fox: If you do that, you have to sell schematics and make parts for everyone else to do it.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m just putting that out there into the universe. Love it. I love it. We hope you enjoyed our What Should I Buy Ladies and EVs edition, and if you’re excited for more, well then, keep up with all the latest car trends and vehicle reviews, and not just EVs, by visiting agirlsguidetocars. com, where you can catch all of Sara’s latest car news.

Fire up your favorite podcatcher and tech out with Carolyn while listening to tech transforms. Learn more from folks like Emily and Chrissy by joining the Grand Touring Motorsports Club. And finally, hop over to dngmotors. com to check on all of Kat’s progress in starting up her very own [01:18:00] car company and peruse the online tribute museum to her father at deloreanlegacy.

org.

Crew Chief Eric: Ladies, I gotta say, this has been a stellar episode. It’s been awesome to watch you guys debate EVs. And you know what? I have to say, I think it did a better job than the guys normally do, where we get up on our soapboxes and pontificate about spending other people’s money in cars that are absolutely unobtainable.

But you know what? I learned a lot from this, and I hope our listeners did too. And if I can just add one little extra thing, I think if money was no object and I had to buy an alternative fuel vehicle, there’s two on my list. One of which keeps playing the hokey pokey on me, which is the Hyundai concept.

And then I think I might just wait for this new supercar that’s coming out and we’ll see when it becomes available as an EV. So I’ll just leave it there. But thank you all for joining us yet again.

Chrissy Crutchfield: You know, the difference between the male and all female is that I believe we were all sober.

Crew Chief Eric: He makes a huge difference. [01:19:00]

Carolyn Ford: This was really fun. Thanks you guys. And thanks. Thanks for all the advice. It was very helpful.

Crew Chief Eric: No. Thank you all for coming. It’s been a pleasure.

Carolyn Ford: Thank you.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please [01:20:00] consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

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Bonus Content

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Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

What else should you buy? Check out other What Should I Buy? Podcast episodes for more car buying “advice” 😉 And remember: the debate never ends – it just shifts gears.

Buying an EV today means becoming an amateur electrical engineer. From charging infrastructure to battery degradation, the homework is real. And while the market now offers over 40 EV models – from the Chevy Bolt to the Porsche Taycan – figuring out which one fits your lifestyle is a challenge.

Tesla Model-Y
Ford Mach-E
Sony Vision S
X-Peng
Lightyear One
Hyundai Ioniq-5
The New Dodge Charger EV
Chrysler Airflow
HUMMER EV
Rivian
ALPHA Motors
Bollinger
The Tesla Cybertruck
Nissan Electric Pickup
Mercedes EQXX
Hyundai N74 Concept (Hydrogen)

Carolyn test-drove a Tesla and a Genesis EV but found the regenerative braking jarring. She’s intrigued by hybrids, especially the Toyota Prius, which her son drives through Utah snow with ease.

The Right to Repair and the Death of Tactile Car Culture

Kat and others lament the loss of DIY car culture. EVs, with their sealed systems and proprietary tech, are harder to maintain. Subscription-based features – like paying monthly for heated seats – add insult to injury. “We’re creating fast fashion with cars,” Kat warns. “There’s a death point where they can’t be revived.”

She dreams of open-source vehicles, lifetime warranties, and cars kids can mod like Minecraft. Her vision? A future where cars are built to last, not to be replaced.

The group agrees: being a responsible global citizen doesn’t mean blindly buying an EV. Hybrids, hydrogen engines, and even carbon-capture tech deserve attention. “Don’t change your entire life just to look good for the environment,” Emily advises. “Offset your carbon use until you find something that truly fits.”

So… What Should Carolyn Buy?

She needs space for skis and an 85-pound dog, reliability in snow, and something that doesn’t make her feel guilty. The consensus? A hybrid SUV – maybe a larger Prius or a Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Stylish, practical, and less likely to leave her stranded at a charging station.

Whether you’re a die-hard gearhead or a tech-savvy commuter, this episode reminds us that car buying is personal, political, and deeply emotional. The future of mobility isn’t just electric – it’s diverse, adaptable, and hopefully, a little more fun to drive.

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Charlotte’s Glory: How the NASCAR Hall of Fame Cemented the Queen City’s Racing Legacy

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February 23, 2023

Charlotte’s Glory: How the NASCAR Hall of Fame Cemented the Queen City’s Racing Legacy

In the heart of Charlotte, North Carolina – amid the hum of race shops, the legacy of red clay tracks, and the echoes of bootlegger lore – stands a monument to speed, grit, and Southern pride: the NASCAR Hall of Fame. But why Charlotte? And why did it take so long for NASCAR to build a hall of fame at all?

Cultural historian Hannah Thompson, speaking at a motorsports symposium hosted by the International Motor Racing Research Center, dives deep into this question. Her research reveals a rich tapestry of geography, politics, economics, and community that made Charlotte the undeniable home for NASCAR’s most sacred institution.

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Thompson’s personal connection to NASCAR begins with her grandfather, Andy Thompson, a Coca-Cola sign painter who lettered stock cars at Charlotte Motor Speedway in the 1960s. His work adorned the rides of legends like Bobby Isaac, Buddy Baker, and Wendell Scott. His story is one of thousands – artists, mechanics, fans – who helped anchor NASCAR in Charlotte long before the Hall of Fame was even imagined.

Spotlight

Hannah Thompson is a cultural historian of the Carolina Piedmont and is new in the museum field with her current position with the Gaston County Museum of Art & History. Ms. Thompson also helps restore Coca-Cola “ghost signs” throughout the Southeast in her spare time.

Synopsis

This episode of The Logbook, presented by Hannah Thompson, delves into the rich history of motorsports and NASCAR’s relationship with Charlotte, North Carolina. Thompson explores why Charlotte was chosen for the NASCAR Hall of Fame, highlighting factors like the city’s central geography, economic growth, and cultural standing. The script sheds light on Charlotte’s early ties to NASCAR, particularly through the legacy of Andy Thompson, a sign painter for Coca-Cola, and the city’s subsequent role as the heart of NASCAR. The discussion includes the economic impact of the Hall of Fame and motorsports industry on the region, the Hall’s unique focus on NASCAR history, and its efforts to engage diverse demographics. Despite early financial struggles and visitor declines, Thompson emphasizes the Hall’s potential for growth post-pandemic through educational outreach and increased fan engagement.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer family Charlotte’s Glory. The NASCAR Hall of Fame in the Queen City by Hannah Thompson.

Hannah Thompson is a cultural historian of the Carolina Piedmont and is new in the museum field. With her current position with the Gaston County Museum of Art and History, Ms. Thompson also helps restore Coca-Cola ghost signs throughout the southeast. In her spare time, she examines the history of the NASCAR Hall of Fame from its inception in 2001.

Through the Global Pandemic, bringing into consideration why Charlotte was selected as the seat for the Hall of Fame and how the hall has affected NASCAR and its fans. Ms. Thompson suggests that Charlotte is often overlooked in Motorsport history despite its lasting impact on the auto racing world.

Charlotte’s Glory, the [00:01:00] NASCAR Hall of Fame in the Queen City. And here is Hannah Thompson joining us from South Carolina. Well, first I’d like to start by saying thank you to everyone in Watkins Glen, who made it possible for this symposium and this opportunity to present to you from Zoom. So it was race day in 1960.

The newly built Charlotte Motor Speedway was beginning to spring to life. Andrew Andy Thompson made his way to the pits with his paint cart in tow. He was there to paint the driver’s names and sponsorships onto their stock cars as a signed painter for Coca-Cola. Consolidated in Charlotte, North Carolina by trade.

Thompson entered the automobile racing circuit as both an artist and a race fan. As his reputation grew at the track, so did the number of cars he lettered on race day. Bobby Isaac Buck and Buddy Baker, fireball Roberts and Wendell Scott were all names intimately familiar to Thompson as his personal photos and accounts.

Document Thompson’s artistry was only one of [00:02:00] many ties NASCAR had to the city of Charlotte, also known as the Queen City. And his legacy of painting race cars continues to live on through those cars. On display in the Glory Road Exhibit at the Nucar Hall of Fame located in the Queen City. Andy Thompson, my grandfather was one of the thousands of people in the Charlotte area who helped establish the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing nascar, and whose lives anchored the sport in the city that would become home to its Hall of Fame a half century later.

Despite its role in the development of Charlotte and in the lives of individuals like Thomson, NASCAR has attracted surprisingly limited attention from academic historian. Most of the literature written about the sport focuses on its origins for bootlegging illegal production, distribution, and sale of alcohol during the prohibition era or early organized racing efforts.

In contrast, there is little scholarship that examines the relationship between Charlotte and NASCAR specifically with primarily local historians such as Tom Chet or Heather [00:03:00] A. Smith, even briefly investigating the relationship. This lack of scholarship and attention to NASCAR within Charlotte is due, at least in part, to the simple fact that his historians, other than sports historians such as Dan Pearson, Markel, often marginalized sports history as a pop culture pastime rather than a rigorous academic discipline.

I in turn seek to play Charlotte as a key player in Motorsports and especially NASCAR history throughout the last half century. An endeavor to answer why it took so long for a NASCAR hall of fame to be built. Charlotte’s geography was a significant factor in the Queen City becoming a major racing hub, both through its positioning in the United States and through the abundant red Clay in the Piedmont area.

This geography factor in combination with Charlotte’s growing economic and cultural standing throughout the second half of the 20th century led to nascar adopting Charlotte as an unofficial racing hub by 1965, as well as NASCAR executives eventually choosing Charlotte to house the NASCAR Hall of Fame in the early two thousands.

[00:04:00] Solidifying the role of Charlotte in racing and NASCAR history. The NASCAR Hall of Fame position alone testifies to Charlotte’s impact on the racing industry and the racing industry’s effect on Charlotte as the queen city itself headed by Mayor Pat McCrory at the time was the group lobbying of hardest for the hall seat in Charlotte.

The hall in Charlotte is the only hall of fame completely devoted to and licensed by nascar, other halls of fame to vote themselves to motorsports in general, though they may discuss nascar. Additionally, the NASCAR Hall of Fame is the only Hall of Fame located in Charlotte. Further speaking to the importance of the motor sports industry to the queen city.

So Charlotte and the state of North Carolina have been dubbed NASCAR Valley by many Motorsports fans, journalists, and historians alike with over 90% of NASCAR teams as well as pable manufacturers such as Holman Moody, located within the greater Charlotte metropolitan area. It’s safe to say that Charlotte is the beating card of NASCAR now as a crash course.

For those who are unfamiliar with why [00:05:00] Charlotte in particular houses the majority of race teens. It mostly comes back to geography. When tracks were still dirt and races were just beginning to be sanctioned by one governing body, it was necessary to have red clay. This particular clay was perfect for motorsports as it compacts down into a hard lick surface that didn’t allow vehicles to sink, like the sandy white clay to the east, or the black spongy clay to the west.

It also allowed for drivers to take turns at faster speed. Red Clay can only be found in a small portion of the country, specifically in the Piedmont that runs through some of the eastern states, primarily Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia. Once NASCAR was found in 1947, it was only natural for teams and parts manufacturers to congregate in one city.

Daytona Beach, where NASCAR’s executive offices are located was too small and not central enough for teams to travel around the country easily for race. Auto racing was already a distinctly southern sport due to the abundant red clay, and it was therefore not likely for NASCAR Valley to [00:06:00] settle outside of the Piedmont.

Charlotte is directly in the center of the Eastern seaboard equidistant between New York City and Miami and houses 53% of the nation’s population within 650 miles. By the 1980s, Charlotte Douglas International Airport had grown into a large bustling hub, coupled with the numerous major interstates and highways through and around the queen.

City teens had no issues traveling for races, and it was easy to have parts shipped if the manufacturer wasn’t already located in the metropolitan area. There’s one fourth tiny detail that caused Charlotte to unofficially become the heart of nascar. Atlanta, which was the original unofficial center of nascar, made NASCAR leadership drivers and fans angry when Atlanta leadership decided to censor who could race at the city and raceway in the late 1940s in retaliation, nascar packed up and made its way to Charlotte, which had fewer qualms about having a stereotypically lower working class population.

Join it. Already a larger mill centered [00:07:00] city. Charlotte did not become a banking center, the second largest in the country, and majority middle and upper class until the 1980s after NASCAR Valley had already been well established. NASCAR is one of the largest industries in North Carolina. Despite not being a highly promoted sport by the general public in Charlotte, the greater Charlotte region and Carolinas in general have hosted some of the largest races on the NASCAR strictly stock series calendar, and have produced some of the largest sponsors and players in the sport.

Sponsors like Firestone Tire Rubber Company and STPA Motor Oil Company found a niche area to test and promote their products. NASCAR was able to create hundreds of jobs through the creation of more and more teams, while being able to put hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue into local economies, each race weakened.

Many former NASCAR pros like Rick Hendrick also eventually make their way to owning car dealerships and the Charlotte area furthering the economic impact to the area. However, there are three main areas that NASCAR has an economic [00:08:00] impact on. Charlotte. Charlotte Motor Speedway, motor sport related industries in the Charlotte region, and of course the NASCAR Hall of Fame.

On May 11th, 2010, the NASCAR Hall of Fame opened its doors to the public for the first time seated almost at the very heart of Charlotte, North Carolina. The Hall of Fame remains committed to presenting the history of both competitive stock car and stock truck auto racing, designed by IMK Architect of the Glass Pyramid in front of the L and France in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland.

The hall is a beautiful, modern building that contrasts with the rest of the queen city skyline of 1980s era high-rise buildings. In case you haven’t had the opportunity to visit the hall yet, there are two central exhibits, glory Road and the Hall of Honor with the rest of the hall focusing on the steam aspects of NASCAR with interactives built in throughout to test your knowledge based on the surrounding exhibits and even an opportunity to place your driving skills against other visitors.

So why is this matter? Why study the NASCAR Hall of Fame in particular when there are a multitude of [00:09:00] motor sports halls of fame? The hall is unique in that it is the only one devoted solely to the commemoration and promotion of NASCAR and not motor sports in general. It’s also an interesting case. It is not often that we can study a still young institution like the Hall.

The last decade has seen a large number of changes for NASCAR and the Hall of Fame, particularly to the induction process in the added emphasis on STEAM education, making it an ideal time to examine the hall and its progress since inception in 2001. When the NASCAR Hall of Fame was first proposed in the early two thousands, there was quite a bit of speculation surrounding where it would be placed.

The final three considers were Charlotte, Atlanta, and Daytona Beach. The Kansas City and Richmond were also considered in the early days compared to Atlanta and Daytona. Charlotte may not seem like the most logical place but the Hall of Fame. However, as I stated earlier, Charlotte had already been dubbed NASCAR Valley decades prior to this announcement due to the high volume of motorsports activity within the area.

The proximity of a large [00:10:00] international airport and major interstate roadways assisted in placing NASCAR within the Queen City back in the 1960s and earlier days of nascar. A 2006 New York Times article noted that Brian France, the chairman of NASCAR at the time, had stayed. Both Atlanta and Charlotte were ideal for the hall, but never mentioned Daytona Beach, most likely due to its limited fan traffic and being off the beaten path despite being the cradle of the NASCAR organization.

And within driving distance of other Florida traction, therefore leaving Atlanta and Charlotte as the last two possible locations for the hall. However, noted Motorsports and NASCAR historian Dan Pierce claims that Atlanta lost the bid for the hall in 1945 before a hall of fame was even imagined. The event Pierce references is when Atlanta city officials and religious leaders cracked down on who would be allowed to drive in races at Lakewood Park.

The city owned raceway following World War II when bootleggers were still prominent. Drivers, promoters, and mechanics. Additionally, the Atlanta Middle class, were trying [00:11:00] to distance themselves from anything reminiscent of the southern reputation of being poverty stricken and majority working class population.

Such stereotypes of NASCAR continued to play the sport, but this particular instance solidified the fact that Atlanta had, on some level, irreparably harmed its relationship with a NASCAR organization in the mid 19 hundreds. The attempted erasure of Atlanta’s bootlegging history by city officials in the 1940s by means of banning former bootleggers from racing led to Atlanta’s exclusion as the premier racing hub in the Southeast, as well as the seat for the hall of fame.

Comparatively, the historic aspect of the positive relationship between Charlotte and nascar, the public funding guaranteed by city officials. NASCAR leadership was looking for, and the fact that over 90% of racing teams are also housed in and around the city, all ultimately resulted in NASCAR officials choosing Charlotte toward the location of the Hall of Fame.

As the officials felt that these reasons spoke to the true history of nascar, which is a large factor of the [00:12:00] Hall of Fame’s purpose, one of the largest factors in choosing a final location for the hall was which city had the sustainability for the hall 15, 20, 35 years down the road. All three final contenders had the potential for that sustainability.

Making them all viable options. However, Atlanta and Charlotte have a slightly higher ability to support the hall long term as they constantly see new construction and new attractions that draw visitors from all over. The majority of fans interviewed at the 2006 Daytona 500 even said they would prefer Charlotte of the three contenders to have the hall, mainly due to the number of race shops in the area.

Luckily, for those particular fans and for Charlotte, the Queen City was chosen by NASCAR leadership later in 2006. The city of Charlotte owns the Hall and the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority, not NASCAR runs it. While NASCAR does not receive any of the Hall’s direct revenue, there were major benefits to the Queen City owning an operating hall.

The Hall of Fame overall cost $189 million, which [00:13:00] included the Hall Ballroom and the convention center office space and a parking deck. Charlotte guaranteed public funding to take care of the entire cost by raising the hotel occupancy tax by 2% private bank loans, and through the selling of state help land parcels.

Though NASCAR did end up purchasing office space from the city and now run almost all of their media operations out of the Charlotte offices. NASCAR does, however, still receive the byproducts of increased fan activity within the city around races as there are at least two races in Charlotte every year, as well as getting younger demographics involved with auto race culture through school and extracurricular group field trips.

NASCAR also intended for the Hall of Fame to assist in increasing NASCAR’s fan base to what it was before Dale Earnhardt’s death. Though it is still difficult to gauge pure van base versus visitors to the hall, which includes school field trips, non fan base groups, people using I 77 en route to Florida, travelers coming through Charlotte Douglas International Airport, and visitors to the convention center in the [00:14:00] same complex as the hall.

Hall’s mission statement notes that the hall aims to drive economic impact for the Charlotte region. Honor the heritage and history of NASCAR and cultivate loyalty for both the NASCAR Hall of Fame and NASCAR through delivering a multifaceted experience that is interactive, entertaining, educational, immersive, and engaging.

While the statement is worded generally enough to address all audiences, it also aims specifically to create new fans through its third point to cultivate loyalty. NASCAR fan numbers have decreased for a number of reasons, including other more diverse ways of spending leisure time, growing costs of fuel, lodging, and accommodations, and an aging fan base.

Additionally, the tragedy of Earnhardt’s death in 2001 as well as other superstar drivers, retirements caused the fan base decline after its peak in 2005. The Hall of Fame attempts to supplement the fan base by appealing to those demographics typically not found within the sports fan base. The CRVA who run the hall were [00:15:00] gracious enough to give me access to the fiscal reports since 2017.

There was some data from 2015 included in the 2017 report. Despite CRVA claims that visitor numbers have grown over the years, the reports show that visitor numbers have continually been decreasing at a marginal rate. For reference, the NASCAR Hall of Fame had over 275,000 visitors during its first full year in operation, but the number of visitors coming in second only to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York.

In 2019, the last bull financial year on record for the hall, there were around 70,000 visitors. If my calculations are correct that the CRVA is not specific about visitor numbers past the first year or two of the hall’s operation, as a point of reference, other sports hall of fames see anywhere from over double to quadruple that number of visitors in a year.

However, the first 12 months after the NASCAR Hall of Fame reopened in September, 2020, saw over 90,000 visitors a roughly 35% [00:16:00] increase over 20 nineteens visitor numbers, and there is still room for that number to grow. There are almost 150,000 students in the Charlotte Mecklenburg School district alone, which is where Charlotte and the Hall of Fame are located.

For fiscal year 2021, the Hall of Fame saw just under 11,000 students, not exclusively from the Charlotte Mecklenburg District, but this number continuously declining for the last several years. The pandemic and subsequent innovations museums had to create because of the pandemic, provide potential for the hall’s educational outreach to grow exponentially.

Educational outreach and bringing in families as new visitors because of these students is vital to the ongoing sustainability of the museum. Which was discussed in 2006 when choosing a final location for call. The overall decrease in visitorship and educational programs could be from a multitude of factors, such as lack of inclusivity and diversity in honorees, the slow change in certain exhibits such as Glory Road, which only changes every three years [00:17:00] or other cheaper educational opportunities in the area.

The number of visitors to the NASCAR Hall of Fame has dropped off since the inaugural year. Despite the Hall’s staff increased awareness of Charlotte’s largely middle class population with exhibits designed with diverse demographic engagement in mind. Because the middle class population is not the primary demographic drawn to NASCAR as a sport, and by extension it’s other attractions like the hall spaces like the Hall are an instrumental way of growing both knowledge and the fan base of the sport.

More traditional NASCAR forum like Charlotte Motor Speedway are still a large factor of the economic and cultural impacts in Motorsport on Charlotte. The Hall of Fame reaches demographics that would not feel quite at home at the Speedway due to stereotypes surrounding the sport as a white, southern and lower class sport.

Continuing the original narrative of NASCAR as a working class sport as of 2004, when this graphic in front of you was printed. There were more than 400, almost 700 by 2012 motorsports related [00:18:00] businesses in the Charlotte region. 90% of NASCAR teams in the Charlotte region and 2,750 motorsports industry jobs in the Charlotte region, and then there were over 20,000 by 2012 exemplifying exponential growth of the motorsports industry in the Queen city.

The majority of these are located in Mooresville and Concord areas where teams are located. Likewise, the Motorsports industry and the state of North Carolina in 2003 had 12,292 jobs directly related to the motorsports industry. Created 24,406 new jobs in North Carolina and generated over $5 billion in revenue.

A steady figure for at least the last 20 years. With salaries for those in the motor sports industry in the top 3.6% of highest earnings. As the exponential growth of job opportunities in the industry continues to rise, so does the concentration of Motorsport businesses within the Charlotte area.

Despite this clipping before you being almost 20 [00:19:00] years old, there is still a high concentration of better sports related businesses, including NASCAR specific businesses and teams in the same general areas. Some of the teams have moved since 2004, though others have moved into the Charlotte area since.

Over the last five years, the economic impact of the hall was at a high with $72 million for the Charlotte area and $39.1 million in direct spending. As of 2019, the museum had a roughly $58.3 million economic impact on the city visitors traveling an average of 564 miles to get to the city. In addition, visitors averaged a three day overnight trip with approximately 37% of visitors coming to Charlotte with the primary intention of visiting the hall.

These visitors also averaged an expenditure of $830 per party in the city. Both the direct and indirect economic impact of the HU and Motorsports have decreased in recent years. While there is not a singular reason for this pandemic hit every industry, including sports and especially manufacturing card, [00:20:00] the next few years we’ll hopefully see a rise in the economic impact in the Charlotte area, as well as increased visitors and educational outreach, and we can get the numbers back up to what they were at the height in 2018.

The impact of the motorsports industry is still astounding and makes one question why Native shore audience do not LA NASCAR as much as other sports like the Panthers football team or the Hornets basketball team, while city leadership and media do. Part of the answer is the negative connotations in stereotypes surrounding auto racing and its origins while another is that there are simply other and potentially more engaging ways to utilize leisure time than there were when NASCAR started.

The Hall of Fame seeks to remedy these issues by engaging demographics other than those typically associated with nascar. By reworking the traditional auto racing and NASCAR narratives, they’re focusing on steam aspects of the sport rather than making the hall all about NASCAR’s history. The continuing issue, however, is convincing enough non-fans to visit the hall and promote NASCAR [00:21:00] as just as fun and engaging as other sports like football or baseball.

Back to our question of why did it take NASCAR so long to create a Hall of Fame for itself? Unfortunately, there’s not one perfect answer that I have been able to find. NASCAR has been represented heavily in other halls of fame, such as the International Motorsport Hall of Fame in Talladega, and a vast majority of teen shops have their own mini museums attached that fans are welcome to visit throughout the year.

Also possible that fans were so accustomed to having a dominant oral tradition in honoring their racing heroes and saw no real need for a specific place to LA them. The Hall of Fame, however, has provided a welcoming space. For fans and non-fans alike to learn about the steam aspects of NASCAR and motorsports in a more general sense, it’s also provided a space for teams to hold press conferences, unveilings and other sores.

With the whole hosting over 300 events every year. Has the hall lived up to its 10 year expectations? Yes and no. It’s difficult to gauge success though when two years of its [00:22:00] very short history have been odd because of a global pandemic the next 10 years and how the hall continues to evolve will really show the long-term sustainability of a NASCAR hall of Fame and whether Charlotte was indeed the best choice in location.

How the hall chooses to evolve following the COVID-19 pandemic and major social movements such as the Black Lives Matter and Me Too Movements that focus on inclusivity and diversity will also determine the hall’s future success as a major sports Hall of fame. And that is it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Hannah.

Thank you. I’m Tom Schmee. I was executive director of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame in museum in Knoxville, Iowa for 19 years, and then curator for another nine. Our perception at the time that Charlotte was successful in getting the bid. Was that it was a low, absolute, low ball application, that there was no way that it was financially sustainable.

Just sitting here today, I brought up an article in the Charlotte Observer, October 16th, 2019 by Jen Roth [00:23:00] Hacker. The title is Everybody is Losing Money on the NASCAR Hall of Fame. It talks specifically about the dollars and the deals with NASCAR to waive, you know, some of the revenue. It says right in the article in the Charlotte Observer that the Hall of Fame lost a million dollars each year for the first five years.

You said that it’s hard to get those financials now pre pandemic. Do you know what it was losing in a year or what it was making in a. I do not know the specific numbers. CRVA has been very list lipped on all of their financial records. I do know that they promote the Hall of Fame as being one of their most successful take.

That how you will endeavors that they run. They run some of the major entertainment centers within the city. I do know that the earlier years they were losing money at the Hall of Fame. It’s continued to be a struggle. I think part of that is that it’s because the city itself is running the Hall of Fame and is not a NASCAR run entity.

Thank you. Okay, Hannah, I think you covered it all. Excellent. Thank you very much. [00:24:00] All right. You take care. Alright, thank you again. Mm, bye-Bye. This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports spanning continents, eras, and race series.

The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world. The Center welcome serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of race drivers race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls, and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events.

To learn more about the center, visit www.racing archives.org. This episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers. Organizational records, print ephemera and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future.[00:25:00]

For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction and Sponsorship 00:17 Meet Hannah Thompson 01:17 The Early Days of Charlotte Motor Speedway 02:13 Charlotte’s Role in NASCAR History 03:31 Geography and Economic Factors 08:07 The NASCAR Hall of Fame 14:29 Challenges and Future of the Hall 19:13 Economic Impact and Industry Growth 21:04 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 24:03 Closing Remarks and Credits

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Charlotte’s rise as NASCAR’s epicenter wasn’t accidental. Its central location on the Eastern Seaboard, abundance of red clay ideal for dirt tracks, and growing infrastructure made it a natural hub. By the 1960s, Charlotte had become NASCAR’s unofficial capital. By the 1980s, its airport and highway network made it a logistical dream for teams and fans alike.

Atlanta, once a contender, lost favor in the 1940s when city officials banned bootleggers from racing—alienating the very roots of stock car culture. Charlotte, by contrast, embraced its working-class heritage and racing community, eventually earning the nickname “NASCAR Valley.”

Building the Hall

When NASCAR finally proposed a Hall of Fame in the early 2000s, Charlotte beat out Atlanta and Daytona Beach. The city guaranteed public funding, raised hotel taxes, and offered prime real estate. Designed by the architects behind the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the NASCAR Hall opened in 2010 as a sleek, modern tribute to stock car racing.

Inside, visitors find Glory Road – a rotating exhibit of iconic race cars – and the Hall of Honor, celebrating inductees. Interactive displays and STEAM-focused education programs aim to engage a broader audience, especially younger fans.

Despite its grandeur, the Hall has faced hurdles. Visitor numbers have declined since its inaugural year, dropping from 275,000 to around 70,000 by 2019. The pandemic offered a brief rebound, but long-term sustainability remains a concern.

Thompson points to several factors: NASCAR’s aging fan base, shifting leisure habits, and lingering stereotypes about the sport’s Southern, working-class image. The Hall’s mission – to cultivate loyalty and educate – requires constant evolution, especially in an era shaped by social movements and calls for inclusivity.

Still, the Hall and the motorsports industry remain economic powerhouses. In 2019, the Hall generated $72 million for Charlotte, with visitors averaging $830 per party. The broader motorsports sector supports thousands of jobs and billions in revenue across North Carolina.

A Living Legacy

Thompson’s research underscores the Hall’s dual role: preserving NASCAR’s past while shaping its future. It’s a space where oral tradition meets interactive exhibits, where fans and newcomers alike can explore the sport’s cultural and technical dimensions.

As Charlotte continues to grow, so too must the Hall of Fame – embracing diversity, expanding outreach, and proving that NASCAR’s story is as rich and resonant as any in American sports.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

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AutoBio: Giving Your Car a Voice in the Digital Age

Gran T

February 16, 2023

AutoBio: Giving Your Car a Voice in the Digital Age

What if your car could tell its own story? Not just the specs and stats, but the memories, the mods, the road trips, and the wrench time. That’s the dream behind AutoBio – a platform that bridges the physical and digital worlds of vehicle ownership. In this episode of BreakFix, we sit down with AutoBio founders Paul and Katie Rooprai to explore how they’re revolutionizing the way enthusiasts share their automotive journeys.

Paul’s love for cars began in the garage with his dad, an engineer who could fix anything. Growing up in Milwaukee in the ’70s, Paul was immersed in a world of wrenches, Knight Rider episodes, and weekend car shows. A track day at Road America sealed his fate: cars weren’t just a hobby – they were a lifelong passion.

Katie’s story starts in Detroit, where both her grandfathers worked in the automotive industry. While she wasn’t a gearhead by birth, marrying Paul introduced her to the fun side of car culture. Her first car show – a British car club meet – hooked her for good. And yes, she could change a tire in the rain on the side of a highway, which Paul still counts as a defining moment in their relationship.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

The idea for AutoBio was born in Stuttgart in 2017, during a whirlwind visit to the Porsche Museum. Paul found himself snapping photos of placards and cars, struggling to organize and share the experience. “Wouldn’t it be great,” he thought, “if you could scan a tag on a car and instantly access its story?”

Fast forward to late 2019, and that spark turned into a full-blown startup. With Katie’s marketing expertise and Paul’s entrepreneurial drive, they built AutoBio during the pandemic—without ever meeting their vendors in person. By mid-2021, they launched at Amelia Island, grabbing the last available tent and debuting their product to an enthusiastic crowd.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode explores the living history of car enthusiasts and their vehicles through stories powered by AutoBio Tags. Paul and Katie Rooprai, founders of AutoBio, join the show to discuss the origins and functionalities of their platform designed for car owners to easily catalog and share the stories of their vehicles using NFC technology. They address how the platform can be applied to various types of vehicles including cars, motorcycles, boats, and even planes. They also discuss how users can personalize, edit, and share profiles, and touch on future developments such as auction house integration and increased user interactivity. The discussion also delves into data security, ease of use, and potential expansions in the product’s applications. The show concludes with an engaging Q&A about the hosts’ favorite cars and a deep appreciation for the role of AutoBio Tags in preserving automotive history.

How was AutoBio formed/founded? What was the inspiration?
Did you have a vehicle that yielded “lots of questions” you got tired of answering at car shows?
Explain Tagging: Why should vehicles be tagged? What’s included in your vehicle’s “Story”
Where should tags be displayed/mounted?
Are tags associated with the car or the owner, or both?
How do you set up the data? Phone app? Website?
How does someone interface with a tag? (QR code via Camera?)
What does AutoBio Tag cost? Is there a subscription fee? Are there discounts for collections, museums (some sort of multi-pack or group buy)?
What happens if a tag is lost or stolen? Does the AutoBio tag expire?
What’s the future of AutoBio tag? Any #spoilers?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Have you ever wondered what kind of story your vehicle could tell? If it could tell its own story? Seems a bit like sci fi, right? But with today’s technology, we can actually achieve this dream.

Crew Chief Brad: Whoa, we’re not going on some eighties inspired Knight Rider fever dream.

Are we talking cars? What are you on about?

Crew Chief Eric: No, Brad, even better. Tonight’s episode is about the next big thing to hit collector vehicles since Leno’s Garage. AutoBio is the only on vehicle platform of its kind to tell your vehicle story anytime, anywhere. [00:01:00] Using encoded technology, it allows you to be one of millions of enthusiasts who can tag, tell, and share your car’s story quickly and easily.

And with us tonight are AutoBio founders, Paul and Katie Ruprai, to explain how it all works. So welcome to BreakFix.

Paul Rooprai: Thanks guys, awesome to be here.

Crew Chief Eric: So before we jump into the technicalities of AutoBio, let’s talk about your Petrelhead origin stories. Tell us the who, what, where, and when, how you guys got into the hobby and what gets you so excited about it?

Paul Rooprai: Gosh, well, I think for me, it’s like most guys, goes back to the garage and the dad and, you know, holding the wrenches and, Doing all that good stuff. And, you know, back in the seventies, when I was growing up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I, I know my dad was just wrenching on everything that he had. He was an engineer, so there was nothing that he couldn’t do or couldn’t fix.

And I just picked up, you know, kind of a love of being around cars and just that idea that you can actually change something or tweak something and actually get a result. And then from there, we watched all the shows when I was growing up. Knight Rider, [00:02:00] absolute fan of Knight Rider. Before that was Duke’s a hazard, right?

I mean, generally that was pretty bad ass car. And then I just went to all the shows and everything like do with my dad when I was a kid. So growing up, doing all that. And then when I was in high school, my graduation gift was, you know, spend some time on the track. So I got a chance for a weekend up at road America, but you know, Hey, dream job would be to be a racer for sure.

That was always my dream job growing up. And when I got that gift for my dad to go rip his car on the track for a weekend. That just sealed the deal for the rest of my life. I’ll hold true to that. Despite all the corporate jobs and the endless stuff that I had to deal with in my career, now, at least I get to live vicariously through all these stories.

So that’s pretty cool.

Crew Chief Eric: So Katie, do you come by way of this through blood or by marriage?

Katie Rooprai: A little bit of both. Actually, I grew up outside of Detroit. Both of my grandfathers were in the automotive industry, worked for General Motors and for Spark Plugs. You live in Detroit. It’s in you, you know what I mean?

It’s just part of what you do. But I really married motor sports when I married Paul, because that’s when I got to know kind of the fun side of [00:03:00] things. Paul took me to my very first car show, which was a British car club and in a local group, and I was pretty hooked. I don’t have the knowledge and the repertoire that you guys do, but I can hang.

I mean, I, I like to just get in there and talk with people and hear what they have to say, and I just think it’s super fun. So

Paul Rooprai: there was a connection though, early on, before we got married, we. Both were traveling to Chicago for work. We had a rental car, got a flat tire on the side of one of the highways, and we needed to get to the airport in no time.

And it was raining. It was cold. We looked at each other and jumped out of the car and she like instantly know how to go to change the tire mode, which kind of sealed the deal for me. I was like, all right, this woman can, uh, change the tire. This is a really good start. 14 years later. I don’t think we’ve ever changed a tire since.

Katie Rooprai: I actually don’t think we have, but we should tell everyone what I was driving when you first met me, which is kind of part of our, our history as well. So a thing you should know is I actually don’t care what I drive. If it gets me there, I’m good. So I’m really not that picky. When I met Paul, [00:04:00] I was driving.

A 1989 Chrysler New Yorker. Can we picture it? I mean, you got it in your mind, right? I’ve

Crew Chief Eric: driven one of those.

Katie Rooprai: So I was like a 20 something young professional driving that car. Your

Crew Chief Eric: grandfather’s car, right? That’s the excuse.

Katie Rooprai: And Paul was like, what are you doing?

Paul Rooprai: And it didn’t get out of third gear. So we managed to get it over to like the CarMax and he traded it in.

Well, it had a

Katie Rooprai: short life after I met Paul. It actually just really kind of crapped out, and I was like, well, it must have been a sign I was ready to upgrade my life.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, we don’t often get couples on this show, so it might be time to ask one of our first Pit Stop questions, which is between the two of you, Can you agree on the sexiest car of all time?

Katie Rooprai: Yeah, that’ll be easy because I’ll just look at Paul and be like, what do you think?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, that answers the three car garage question too. Yes. Yes.

Paul Rooprai: Wow. Okay. Um, I’m going to pick one that I know we both would love Ferrari Dino. Yeah. [00:05:00] Yes.

Katie Rooprai: Agree. Agree. Yeah. And I would throw in there. I don’t know if this is of all time, cause that’s a pretty big bar to set, but I would throw in there maybe like a 60s or 70s Corvette.

Just for something a little classic.

Paul Rooprai: Okay. Convertible?

Katie Rooprai: Uh, no.

Paul Rooprai: No.

Katie Rooprai: He’s like thinking he’s like no wrong answer.

Crew Chief Eric: No. Split window though. She upped the ante on you. It’s gotta be a split.

Katie Rooprai: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: We can race. I’ll take the Dino out. It becomes like an episode of the Persuaders. The Aston versus the Dino. Yes. That’s right.

So the flip side of that question is always pretty obvious. Right, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, yeah. What is the ugliest car of all time? I’m

Paul Rooprai: kind of going with that. Christ.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Three box design on that one. Not too hard to draw the New Yorker from the 80s. That’s for sure. So let’s jump back in the timeline. You guys have been together for a decade and a half now, somewhere in this love story. You got the idea to start Autobio. So how was that formed? How was that founded?

What was the inspiration?

Paul Rooprai: Let’s see, I was [00:06:00] in Stuttgart on business and had a chance to go to the Porsche Museum. This was back in 2017 and ran through there with a couple hours to spare, taking pictures as we do of all the cars and all the placards. and trying to share those with friends back home. It was just a colossal mess to try and organize all that.

And I actually had that thought at that time, somebody should just make something that goes in the window of the car that you can just take your phone out and scan it and take the stories with you. That was kind of the seed of the idea, but I don’t think I mentioned it until late 2019 to Katie and one of her uncles who was a collector.

That might’ve been the first idea I’d come home with that she kind of said, yeah, that’s not too bad. For entrepreneurial stuff, none of them have really gotten off the ground, but that was late 2019. And then the pandemic hit and it was like, well, what are we going to do with our time now? We just decided to go for it quite honestly.

And there was really nothing in the market that was like it. Katie’s classically marketing trained and thought about it from the consumer standpoint. It kind of met a really good test at that point in time, in my opinion, because you’ve got somebody who’s. Been around cars, but isn’t really a [00:07:00] car person dyed in the wool who goes, yeah, no, that light bulb makes a lot of sense.

We spent the better part of a year really building out the idea and finding the people that could build the platform and finding the people that could build our tags, filing for patents, doing all that stuff. And then it all came together right around Mid 2021 is when we launched. Mid 2020 is when we actually started working on the idea.

Katie Rooprai: Paul is a serial inventor. And so throughout the years he’s come to me with a lot of ideas. What about this? What about that? And my litmus test is always, does the world need that though? Does anyone care? Because then you got to turn around and make people care about it. But when he came to me with this, I was like, That’s very interesting because you just can immediately see the need for it and see how people would use it in a variety of ways.

And so, yeah, I said, green light, go, let’s do it. And let’s not stop until we’ve really done it. But I thought for sure we would run into somebody who has already done this. To be honest with you. So we did a lot, a lot, a lot of research in there thinking that that was going to turn up and there’s nothing like it on the market, which made [00:08:00] us, you know, even more keep going, you know, keep driving this thing.

Paul Rooprai: It was kind of interesting that, you know, as an entrepreneur who has a vision, has an idea, when you’re on the backside of it, and it actually exists, it’s, Cause you’re like, how did that happen? You know, how did all those perfect moments happen where it all just kind of fell into place because there were a lot of barriers that came up along the way, you know, people telling us, Oh, we can’t get the technology to do what you want to do, and we can’t fire off a new webpage every time, you know, a tag gets registered and all this kind of stuff, but also the biggest complexity and all that was the fact that we never met any of our vendors in person during the pandemic.

So we’re working with people on both coasts and everywhere in between. Can you trust somebody? You never really met them, you know, are they going to just kind of take the money and run? I mean, all these things that have happened along the way and, you know, sure enough, perfect storm, it all kind of fell into place.

And the next thing you knew we were standing at Amelia Island in 2021, we grabbed their last tent to actually launch the product there just happened to be the next big car show. I remember we had kind of that pinch me moment where we’re like, holy cow, we did it. You know, now what [00:09:00] happens, you know, we had a really nice reception that time and things just kind of built from there.

So I guess your thought about will anybody care? We quickly got some validation around that, which was awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: So what was the first car to get a tag?

Paul Rooprai: The first car to get a tag was, it was probably a Trans Am actually. There’s quite a few Trans Ams on there, which is great. Cause that was one of my favorite childhood cars too.

And then shortly thereafter, it was really interesting to see first cars that came on really span the gamut. We had Muscle cars, we had really high end Mercedes, we had a ton of Mustangs that came on board, bunch of Corvettes. And then we started seeing like the hot rotting kind of guys get it. And then people started using it to list all their mods.

So we even had 20 somethings driving around, you know, whatever that they’ve souped up. It’s really just kind of exploded from there. We always like to say, we don’t care what you drive. We don’t even care if it runs. Yes. Probably got a story, you know, you might as well tell it with a tag. So how many cars in the system now?

Over a thousand tags out there. And there’s some collectors out there. We’ve got one that’s got like 35 cars on there. We just closed a [00:10:00] deal today with another museum. It’s got 65 cars. So they’re going to get their whole collection tagged. And then there’s, you know, there’s guys like you and me, who’ve got one car that they absolutely love.

That’s the one that’s tagged. So

Crew Chief Eric: I like how you mentioned that with the museums bringing in the 65 cars because that’s your original use case. And I love the fact that in today’s world where things are a little bit more automated or maybe we could say impersonal, it’s nice to go to the Porsche museum or whatever museum and be able to scan a car and then have the information right there in front of you.

Translated into your language of choice. Let’s say things like that. So that takes away maybe having that docent or that more personal experience, which you can still get. But this way, you’re not kind of going. Well, I wish I knew that this was more than just a 9 11, you know, so that that is kind of nice.

So that initial use case and we’re going to talk about it more as we go along here can be exploded into so many different things.

Paul Rooprai: Exactly. And, you know, I just remember having this vision, like, thinking about it being on the other side of the development of it. It exists today, what my vision was in my head when I walked through that Porsche Museum, where I could go down the line and [00:11:00] tap all these tags, because you can either tap it or you can scan the QR.

It’s got NFC in it as well. And then all those history, kind of like little digital baseball cards on my phone, so I can look at them at leisure. I can share them with friends. I can save them to my virtual collection so I can have a digital garage, all that kind of stuff. And that exists today, which again, it was one of those weird things.

I’m sure there’s plenty of other entrepreneurs out there who you kind of light bulb goes off and you just see the vision and maybe don’t act on it for whatever reason. Then whatever years later, there it is. And it looks just like what you’d envisioned the whole times.

Crew Chief Eric: So are you guys still the only ones on the scene or have other people jumped on the bandwagon?

Suddenly?

Katie Rooprai: Yeah, it’s just us.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s no

Paul Rooprai: competitor out there yet

Crew Chief Eric: that

Paul Rooprai: we know of.

Katie Rooprai: There’s been others who have tried various aspects of it, but no one who has done what ours does, which is a physical product on the car, which links to the digital life of a car lover, right? And I think that that’s a really important insight is that in the motorsports world, you live in two worlds.

You live online because you’ve got so much going on online, whether it’s auction houses or just [00:12:00] research or buddies swapping stories, but then you also have a physical product. Physical activity, you’re going to a track, you’re going to a show, you’re going to a meetup. And so what we’ve really done is kind of bridge those two worlds so that they can flow seamlessly.

Wherever you are, you can share your story and that allows you to talk with people and take the story with you.

Paul Rooprai: Probably the closest thing to it right now is the Instagram handle on the side of the car. Yeah. Where, where you can just bridge that digital and physical world. And that’s cool, you know, for people that use Instagram, but not everybody does.

Enthusiasts have different elements to their story. They’ve got maybe a social media element. Maybe they’ve got the history that’s in their head. They’ve got the pictures that they’ve taken, you know, last weekend or just today. This at least on our platform allows you to put all of it together in one spot.

Katie Rooprai: And I think what we hear a lot about frustrates people about trying to record or keep track of their automotive life on Instagram is yes, you’ve got your feed, but then you’ve got like, wait, where was that one photo that I’m scrolling through trying to find? I was at that track the one time. And so. It doesn’t really save your highlights in a good way, and [00:13:00] it doesn’t allow you to tell a story in a chronological order.

So we always encourage people, yes, still do that. You’re going to keep your social media, you’re not going away from that, but you can link all that to your autobio, and then just go straight to your autobio profile, and it’ll have your favorite photos right there, and it’ll have your story kind of all neatly laid out.

So we find that people really do want to do both of those things.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, we’ve already kind of touched on who this is for. You said cars, I’m assuming trucks, you know, anything people collect. Anybody in the boating enthusiasts or motorcycles? I’m assuming it’s small enough that it could fit on a motorcycle windshield.

Boats have windshield. I mean, also, what about ease of use? I know a lot of people in the collector car world, unfortunately, are technologically adverse. So how are you helping them?

Paul Rooprai: In terms of other uses, like boats, I’ve got a friend of mine who’s got it on a sailboat. We’ve got a couple of planes on there.

Actually, one guy that’s got this really amazing 1940s Waco. It’s a biplane. I’ve seen the plane before, and I know that it’s got like 135 page document that he pulls out of an air show in Northern California, people page through it, but [00:14:00] then there’s also like, Hey, you can join the 21st century and put all that up on a tag.

We’ve built him like a custom decal for the front of the engine sits kind of close to the engine. So when the plane is parked, you can walk up and scan the tag and there’s 135 pages on your phone. Now you mentioned motorcycles. Yeah, for sure. In fact, the museum we talked to today, it’s a dealership chain that’s in our local area that has a museum and they’re buying a motorcycle dealership.

And that’s coming with like, like you said, like 15 or 20. Like old Ducatis and kind of old, um, cafe racers and whatnot. And they’re actually interested in putting them on motorcycles too, which is great. So you can put it on just about anything. We have a couple of campers on the site, believe it or not.

People that are like, Hey, I can use this to document kind of my journey. So I can put on pictures and I can put captions in those pictures from when I went on vacation. Rocky mountains 2022, but they actually have also contacted us to get a blow up of their QR code to put on their tire cover on the back of the camper.

And so [00:15:00] rather than that map that we all like used to see back in like the 70s and 80s, you put the sticker on where you’ve been. They’re just like, Hey, scan my QR and you’ll see where I’ve been. So it’s kind of cool.

Katie Rooprai: We had someone last year who put one on a golf cart because the golf cart had a great story.

Sure enough. We also do other applications for people. Sometimes if you run into a motorcycle that doesn’t have enough tire cover, Space or doesn’t have a windshield for that matter. We’d get creative sometimes about where you can put it in a hang tag or a plaque or something like that. So sometimes your story can live, but it doesn’t have to live on the windshields.

Crew Chief Brad: Say I run into a car enthusiast and he’s got the same car at the grocery store parking lot. But I don’t have my car with me. I’m driving the grocery getter, but I want to badly talk to this guy and prove, Hey, I got one of those too. Here’s my key chain with my QR code. Yeah, we could do it. Katie

Paul Rooprai: did a t shirt the other day for a guy who shows is actually a trans am off quite a bit.

Katie Rooprai: He goes to shows. And so he now has his own custom one of one t shirt with his own autobiography are in the back of it. So when he walks around shows, people are just. Grabbing his story as he walks, which is kind of fun.

Paul Rooprai: One of the things that it [00:16:00] does for people that have multiple vehicles, it’ll auto catalog them all under your username and there’s an individual URL for that.

So we can build a custom QR for that. And like guys know those like challenge coins that military folks carry around. So you can laser etch a blank with a QR code. And now that person can have that in their pocket, pull it out. And you know, you scan my. QR and you can see my whole collection. So I guess for showing to friends and kind of like a brag tag moment point being, yeah, we can put it on just about anything.

Katie Rooprai: Brad, your second question was a great one about how are we integrating this technology with older clientele? That’s frequent in the hobby, quite honestly, and very valuable. I mean, because they have so much information, you know, that we all want to know and that we all want to preserve. One thing we do is we work a lot with people one on one when they need it.

And so some of our most gratifying customer moments, I think have been when we’ve been working with someone and then we walk them through it and show them how it works and they go, that’s so easy. I get it. You know, like they really have that realization moment that yeah, I can do this and this wasn’t as [00:17:00] hard as I thought.

So. We’ve had that quite honestly with people that span the ages though. I mean, like people constantly tell us, Oh, that was way easier than I thought. Or it was very user friendly, which is intuitive. We’ve made the program that way so that it’s kind of a plug and play situation. Yeah. It’s

Paul Rooprai: really like a fill in the blank.

So Katie will describe it to people when we’re standing there at a show or something like, Oh, I just don’t do technology. And she’s like, well, can you fill in a form online? Well, yeah. Okay. Well, then you can build an auto biotech. I mean, it’s that simple.

Katie Rooprai: Yeah. So we do try. Yeah. We do try to explain it to people that way.

Paul Rooprai: Make no mistake. There are people that are just like, no, not for me. Cause I’m just never going to do that. I’m never going to fill that in. Or

Katie Rooprai: if you walk up to me at a show and you have a flip phone, like we’re probably not continuing the conversation, which is fine. I mean, you’re still cool, but I, I can’t sell you a tech, so,

Crew Chief Brad: but those are the people that actually like to talk to other people and have those conversations.

You know, we’ve got the resident mountain man that can talk your ear off for hours and hours and days and days. Those are the people that enjoy that aspect of it. But for [00:18:00] me, I’m always in a hurry. I’m kind of an introvert. I want to learn about your car, but I don’t, I don’t want to talk to you. I just wanted to learn about your car.

Paul Rooprai: That’s me. So this

Crew Chief Brad: sounds like something perfect that I’d want to, you know, Oh, I just woke up, scan your car and walk away. Perfect. We don’t have to be awkward around each other.

Katie Rooprai: I don’t have to interrupt your conversation. You don’t have to get out of your lawn chair, like whatever it is. Yeah.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah. We, we have a funny kind of insight that it’s like 10 a.

m. at Saturday morning car show. And you’re done telling the story, point to the tag and tell people to scan it. Hey, take the story with you and you don’t have to get out of your lawn chair. I have a question for you, Eric. You built an auto biotech recently. How was that experience?

Crew Chief Eric: So I found it to be really easy.

It sort of just walked me through the process. Step one, step two, step three. I thought it was funny that I got stumped a couple of times where it was like, what’s the weight of my car. I had to go look it up like on Edmonds or somewhere else. Cause like, I don’t remember knew my mileage. I actually had my dino sheet.

So I knew my numbers. You know, that kind of stuff. I had to look up my length. I love the question about condition. I put low because that was a good [00:19:00] answer. Right. I didn’t know what to put. So some of it’s like, yeah, I need to refine it. I need to go back later. You know, things like that. Uploading the pictures was really straightforward.

I did it on my computer rather than on my phone. So I don’t know what the. But on the desktop, I can’t imagine it’s too different, but the end result was great once I kind of got it up and I looked at it from the person viewer side of it. It was immediately up on the front page. I was like, that’s cool because I didn’t know if I was going to get buried somewhere.

Like, Oh, you got a Volkswagen. You’re on like page 57, you know, cause you got to get all the way to the bees sort of deal. It worked out great. I mean, I really like it. I like the way it feels. I need to go back and personally refine my profile a little bit more, upload some different pictures and stuff like that.

Again, I put it together because I just wanted to know how it worked. But other than that, it was great.

Paul Rooprai: I noticed you also put some profile about GTM in there too. So you took advantage of that kind of user profile as well. So if you don’t mind me asking, how long did it take you from start to finish?

Crew Chief Eric: I have to say I cheated a little bit.

Because I had this already built for [00:20:00] a car show before COVID where I used a QR code. It’s on a page on our website. So I basically took that apart and I repasted it into my auto bio profile. And I’m like, this is much cleaner presents better than a piece of paper tape to my window with a QR code. But at the time, to me, that was a great idea because I will say all in all, if I go back and do this from scratch and I had to write it all in the same amount of detail, I mean, some stuff I did write from scratch.

I spent maybe 20 minutes, half an hour tops, but I’m sure there’s people that will sit there, reread it, reread it, read it, go over. Oh, I forgot about this. Oh, I added this part a year ago, you know, stuff like that. And that’s the evolution of the story of the car. But to your point, when I’m at a car show, or I’m in an event or an autocross, and I’m sitting there, chumming it up with people.

I go, Oh yeah, let me add this to my bio real quick or take a picture of it there. A new picture while I’m at the event. Super easy to do for my phone. If I remember my password, that’s the other trick of all of this is what password did I set it? I don’t know. You know, [00:21:00]

Paul Rooprai: right. That user experience was good.

Cause again, it’s like, we just want to get all the friction out of there and give people something that, you know, it’s hopefully a fun experience actually building it and kind of seeing the company.

Crew Chief Eric: I love the quadrant. Set up and all those lead in questions, I think for me, I would have liked to just taken my mods and had a mod sheet, right?

Sort of like a spec sheet separate from the story. Because if you look at features, I love that’s where I put all my mods. And I’m like, well, I don’t really love the features. This is just how I built it. So that spec sheet or that build sheet or that mod sheet would be great to be a tab. You could kind of click over.

To the builder view of the car versus the love story of the car. And for the people that really want to nerd out, then that’s where the, the torque and the diner sheets and the length of the car and the weight of the car, all that stuff could be there together, sort of as a dual profile. Right. Again, the technical side versus the story side.

That’s a great

Paul Rooprai: insight. And we’ve heard that from some folks like our weekend racers or race teams, even, um, that are looking at this. Cause. You know, initially they go, Oh, this is [00:22:00] great because we got a car in the pits and people can come down and see it and get a picture with us and all that while they can scan the tag and they can take the story of the race car and the race team and all that with them.

But that’s where that’s come up before. And I think that that’s a, another iteration that we can do. Some people put all those mods right up in the description, so it appears right underneath the photos. But yeah, the nice thing is you can play with it. Well, super I’m thrilled you built it. I was, I was really excited to see that it was one of those where I woke up.

Boom, there it was. And I was like, Oh, he’s been there playing now. Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: now the problem is I need like seven more autobiotags, you know.

Paul Rooprai: Katie can hook you

Crew Chief Eric: up. Not a problem, Eric.

Katie Rooprai: That’s not a problem at all, actually.

Crew Chief Brad: Does the platform have the capability for audio files? If I wanted to dictate my story of the car, or for example, the museum rent for 25, the headset and walk around and do the guided tour.

Do you have that for like individual cars? It’s I could upload an audio file. I get Morgan Freeman to narrate it. And then we just talk about my 2008 R32.

Katie Rooprai: If it’s Morgan, we are going to alter the site just for that file, just so [00:23:00] you know. So we’re, it’s a great question that you asked this Brad, because we literally just had this conversation with the client we were talking with today, the museum.

The short answer is we don’t take audio files right now, but what I encourage people to do is just do that on a video recording and pop it on YouTube or pop it in Vimeo, wherever you’re going to put it. And then you can upload it that way. And so what we’re going to do with the museum is that they very much wanted their curator to tell all these rich stories in audio.

And they said, lots of our folks are older that are walking through the door. They want to listen. They’re not going to read the whole thing. So they’re going to record a whole series documenting the history of each vehicle. That video recording is going to live right at the top of their profile. So you can hyperlink anything in these text fields of your own profile.

So they’re just going to put that at the top, big, bold letters, Click here to listen and that’s going to be how they’re going to do that. And then they’ll have the rest of it all filled out so people can read. But yes, I think audio slash video is a great way to tell those car [00:24:00] stories.

Crew Chief Brad: Why should vehicles be tagged?

What’s included in the vehicle story? We’ve already touched on a couple of things. Why don’t you give us a little bit more detail about what is included. When you set up your auto bio,

Paul Rooprai: well, the first thing you do is kind of lock in your make and model and drop in the specs and hit save, and that builds the basis of your profile.

There’s a field in the specs. Let’s say you don’t know torque for instance, or you don’t care to put it in there, just leave a blank and it won’t show up. So it’ll keep everything looking really on the user side, pop in some photos and you can drag and drop, rearrange those or caption them again, hit save.

And then, you know, you’ve got the start of your auto bio. There’s four core questions that we ask. And it’s kind of like, I go back to what do I want to know when I walk up to somebody and there’s a history and kind of other details, like if you’d done modifications or how’d you come to get to the car or whatever, then there’s what it’s like to drive.

Cause I always want to ask that question. Chances are, I’m not going to be able to jump behind the seat of the car guy I’m talking to. So I like to ask that question and people have some fun with that one question around, like, why do you own it? People usually use that to talk about, well, I’m either [00:25:00] a passionate, whatever, firebird owner, or let me tell you the story about how I chased this sucker down.

Katie Rooprai: And each of those sections is an open ended, write as many words as you want sections. What’s fun is that we have people take that in different directions. Some guys like to list out all their mods. Right. And so they literally use it to list all those things. Some people like to really tell a narrative story.

You know, it came from my grandfather and people take it in different directions and whatever is special to them.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah. It’s the features I love. That’s the one I was thinking of. And that’s the one where, you know, some people list mods, but usually people kind of like say, well, I love how fast it is, or I love the smell of it or, you know, whatever it might be.

Those four elements, again, you can fill in whatever you want. You can leave them blank. And then you kind of finish when you go through the profile. So it’s photos, you’re making models, specs, and then these questions. And then when you get down to the bottom of the storybuilder form, it’ll ask you to kind of give it a title, your story, your title, and then just write a little brief description and that all renders itself into the actual auto bio.

So when you scan one of these, the first thing you get is the photos and a carousel, you’ve got [00:26:00] multiples. And then underneath it is that headline description. And then there’s the story elements and at the bottom is the specs and then any links to videos or social you’ve got. So it takes you through a narrative when you’re looking at it, eyes first, and then read.

And then click if you want to click to link to anything else.

Crew Chief Eric: So do you guys moderate every bio that comes through?

Paul Rooprai: No, we don’t mean there’d be no way to keep up quite honestly. Although my favorite part of the day is waking up and seeing who’s put one online overnight. That’s kind of fun to see what’s rolled on.

Katie Rooprai: We do filter for profanity. So we don’t want it to be a place where, you know, it’s uncomfortable to be there for people, but other than that, we don’t sanitize. No, we don’t moderate. We want it to be your raw story, which is. Super fun.

Crew Chief Eric: So then, are the tags associated with the car, the owner, or both?

Katie Rooprai: With the car, but through a user profile, which is the owner profile.

So by that, I mean each car has to have its own tag, and once you lock your year, make, and model to that vehicle, that part can’t be changed. Every other detail in your profile can be changed. And then as a user, [00:27:00] you can have as many tags or cars in your garage, you know, as you like. When you click on your name, then all of your owned cars are going to pop up in your garage.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah. Good example of that. We’ve got a user online called Dino. He didn’t want to be known. He wanted to be anonymous and he didn’t want his location to be known either. So he keeps all that blank and he used Dino as a, as a name, because that was his first collector car. But if you go on the site, And you type in Dino, you’re going to see a maroon Dino that’ll pop up.

Click on that one. That’s one of his cars. That’s his first car. And then if you click on his username, which is up in the top and yellow, it’s just going to blow out all the actual cars that he owns. I think he’s got 12 on there. So basically with one click. He’s got access or anybody’s got access to see kind of the full garage, which is kind of fun.

So yeah, he just registered all the tags to that one username and it auto catalogs it for him.

Crew Chief Brad: So how does that work with transfer of ownership? Because I know a lot of collector cars kind of change hands through auctions and just say, Hey, I really like your car. And you know, if you ever want to sell it kind of things.

So how does that work in [00:28:00] the system?

Katie Rooprai: That’s a great question. What we do tell people is when you are selling a car, Take your tag off the windshield and keep it with you. So sometimes we have people put it on their desk or in an acrylic frame or something like that, because now you can preserve having owned that vehicle, what we can do is if the new owner wants to buy a tag, we can link your story in the backend.

You need to call us and we do it. You know, we take care of you, but we can continue that legacy of that story on the new tag. But we say the new owner needs to start their own story, right? Cause they’re going to have their own chapter that they’re going to want to edit.

Crew Chief Brad: Are you all capturing the VIN number or no?

It’s an option. You can put it in there if you want.

Katie Rooprai: You don’t, you don’t have to. Yeah, it’s optional.

Crew Chief Brad: I know people are personal about their VIN numbers.

Crew Chief Eric: Right, right. It’s almost like PII and that begs a good question. So, if the VIN is in there, is it displayed or is it still obfuscated?

Paul Rooprai: It’s in there. Yeah, if you type it in, it’ll appear.

And I’m actually surprised. I mean, we got that as a request early on when we were doing kind of our beta testing and trying to figure out exactly which fields, talking to a number of enthusiasts. People overwhelmingly wanted that. Yeah. I’d [00:29:00] say it’s filled in maybe 20 percent of the time, and I’ll be honest.

It always surprises me that people put it in. You walk up to any car on the street, generally speaking, you can usually see a VIN, at least most relatively modern cars.

Katie Rooprai: The thought early on though, was that some people really like it because that’s verifying that you own the car or verifying that it’s legit or it’s what it says it is.

We’ve heard the argument on both sides, thus it’s optional.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah, it’s, it is really interesting to see the degree in which people use the platform. So I remember an early on question, like day one at Amelia, somebody walked up and said, Well, how am I going to know that the stuff that that guy writes about his car isn’t just total bullshit.

And i’m like i’m not in the truth business. I’m not here to pull the wool over anybody’s eyes But i’m here to give everybody a platform to share whatever it is They want to share fast forward a year year and a half into it We’ve got a collector out of fort lauderdale who has an amazing collection He’s the one with like 35 cars on there He documents everything even down to listing the car clubs and listing out Um all the accolades which are two other fields you can put in Stuff that’s one Cavalino, unbelievable the way [00:30:00] he uses it to document all of that provenance, including the VIN and then pictures inside and out and everything else.

It’s pretty amazing. There have been other platforms that you can capture car stories and there’s, you know, cool stuff like BinWiki is really cool. And again, using Instagram is actually really cool. It’s a great platform, but we weren’t trying to be any of those. And there’s other ways out there to kind of go and capture sort of that truth of that history.

And those folks do it really great. I mean, I linked to databases that’ll look up the VIN and pull all the specs. I mean, stuff like that, that yes, we’ve thought about doing some of that via APIs, but going back to the origin story, I love those stories, but I’m kind of like you, Brad, I don’t want to necessarily talk to every person whose car I see on the street, I kind of want to just go get it and deal with it.

And we haven’t mentioned this aspect of it, but there is. A way to chat with people on the actual site

Katie Rooprai: to comment.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah, you can comment, which, I mean, I guess you could facilitate a chat doing that. It would be public facing, but you’re a registered user, which doesn’t cost you anything. You just have to give an email and then find a handle that you want to be known as you can then go ahead and anybody’s profile and make a [00:31:00] comment under the discussion at the bottom.

It’s kind of like the least known feature that people don’t use that much right now, to be honest, but it’s kind of a cool way that can connect with folks online. And it just sort of encourages that. Enthusiast side of all of us.

Crew Chief Eric: Thanks to COVID, AutoBio got started, but we also all got accustomed to what a QR code is, even though they’ve been around for quite a long time, because as you go to restaurants now, nobody has menus anymore.

Scan the little QR code. So AutoBioTag, leveraging the same type of technology, bust out your phone, open your camera, and suddenly, boop, it appears there on your phone’s browser. Is it more complicated than that?

Paul Rooprai: No, it’s not. No, it’s not. There’s no app required. You don’t have to download anything. And if you like to use NFC and tap to pay, you know, you can just do the same thing on the tag.

You can walk up and tap your phone over the windshield and sure enough, that’s going to pop right up on your phone. So no app required.

Katie Rooprai: From the user front facing aspect of it, that was a happy accident. COVID for us was just like a lull in everything else we were doing, like for everybody, and it allowed us [00:32:00] the time to think and to process and to get this out to the world.

What we didn’t anticipate because QR was always going to be a part of the play here, but we didn’t have any idea that the restaurant situation that you couldn’t go eat at Applebee’s without a QR code was going to be a thing,

Paul Rooprai: right?

Katie Rooprai: That happy accident has definitely served us well in that, especially the older crowd now knows.

I don’t have to download anything. My phone does the work for me. I can do this. So that has been a great thing for us. What there is more to is the back end of getting every single person their own URL to fire off when I mail you a tag. That’s the complex back end part for us that we had to figure out.

So when you say, is there more to it? Yeah, there’s more to it in the backside, but not for what the consumer is experiencing. And that’s kind of the seamless beauty of it.

Paul Rooprai: It’s fun to watch people. It shows tag says this car has a story and there’s your QR and a little window where you can see kind of the NFC antenna people whip out their phone.

95 percent of the time they open up their camera and they scan it and you kind of get this moment to watch. Some people are kind of surprised it worked because you didn’t have to download an app and you don’t have to do anything [00:33:00] special. It’s just. Use the phone in your pocket. And that was the original vision was just make it dead simple.

Cause we’re all walking around with a phone in our pocket, take out all the friction and just make it a really user friendly experience. At the time I was in Stuttgart, I was there on business working in the NFC world and originally had thought of this using NFC as the predominant method. Like you said, COVID hit, we all got used to QRs, so we definitely decided to launch with both, and that’s been really great.

Katie Rooprai: One thing that people find really magical, we’ll often be standing at a show, helping someone with their profile, or showing them another profile, and you can change. Anything in your profile on the fly, you know, from your phone. So you’re standing out in the middle of a field. You’re looking at your car.

You’re showing your profile. You want to go on, go into edit, change a few words, upload a picture. You hit save and boom. Now the next time you scan it, you’ve got your updated profile. It shocks me, but I think it’s super fun that people still think that that’s like magic happening, right? Like, whoa, how’d you do that?

But you can instantly edit. Your whole story right there, which is fun.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve [00:34:00] talked about two use cases so far. The museum. We’ve talked about the car show guy. But there’s another use case here that I see where autobio could be extremely useful. And that’s at an auction. You go to some of these events, there’s 750 cars.

How do you know the backstory? And it’s not always about provenance like it is at a concord. It’s what has been done to this car? How much money has been spent on it? Where are those records, you know, service information, restoration profile, all that kind of stuff. So you guys explained the four major quadrants of the profile itself, the what’s it like to drive, you know, what’s been done, but how is the profile going to be expanded for the future for somebody that really wants to kind of break this down and say, yeah, the history.

The restoration here are the receipts, you know, as part of that portfolio, if you were going to auction,

Paul Rooprai: we actually have users that are builders or restorers that exclusively go through like Barrett Jackson and they actually sell their product. And they’re using the tag already in its current form and the layout to achieve all the way you just [00:35:00] described.

You can use the platform to achieve all of that. And I think it’s actually a really great use case for it because all these emotions you’re there, you’re throwing the paddle in the air and you’re taking home your dream car. But that story is also something that you’re going to go and brag about when you get back home and something you want to have captured today in most auction houses, you get a lot of the details about the car that kind of prove its worth, but it leaves out some of that other more subjective stuff.

It leaves out a lot of that, quite frankly, the auto about tag allows people to actually. transfer that story and that knowledge. It’s not used right now to a large degree in the auction world. We’ve explored that a little bit. That’s probably the next iteration of business development for us is to go and talk with the auction houses themselves.

But we have users today that actually find it really useful to do that.

Katie Rooprai: Literally one of the strategic pillars for us for 2023 is like something that we want to figure out. We have not cracked the code on it. We haven’t had the right introduction yet. It’s the thing that everybody says to us consistently is what about auctions?

What about actions?

Paul Rooprai: The nice thing [00:36:00] about the platform, though, I will say this is like when we built it, we built it with those kinds of things in mind so that, you know, it can auto catalog, it can pull together all these details. It works without any apps, so it can work in any venue,

Katie Rooprai: quickly edited, you know, updated,

Paul Rooprai: but it is a really good use case for it.

And the guys that use it, that are builders, I’m thinking of the guys out of Florida that they bring in these old FJs out of Brazil and they’re selling them across the block at Barrett right now. And, you know, they’re going for like six figures. Well, they’re using it to document the whole bill. So the way they’ve described it is like, you’ve given me the ability to have a birth certificate for this truck.

And now I can put in photos, I can put in captions and I can show the process. And so at least that provenance and whatever story we find out from the thing we found on the farm or whatever, and now we put together with that. And I think there’s some people that story they’re really buying a little bit of that as well.

So I think there’s value in that.

Crew Chief Eric: So you hit on a keyword, which is transferable, and that’s where the use case changes, because when it goes to auction, I feel like maybe you don’t have to engage the auction [00:37:00] houses so much as though they should be tagging every car. In this instance, the onus is on the current owner to put the tag on the car, but then the tag.

In my opinion, sort of needs to travel with the car. So it needs to be transferable to the new owner. Is that something in the works in the future? Instead of what you mentioned earlier, Katie, about working it on the back end and this and that. If it doesn’t belong to the owner, let’s say, the car isn’t in my garage anymore.

It’s in Brad’s garage. That auto bio tag, I should be able to transfer it to him. And then he continues the story from there, right?

Paul Rooprai: You know, at the end of the day, the tag can always obviously go with the car physically. And it’ll still work, just won’t have the new owner’s story yet. And truth be told, I mean, we could do that as well.

We would probably just take the fee that we would have for somebody buying a new tag to do that. And just take that existing tag and be able to open it up, if you will, so that they could actually use it as well. But right now, what we’ve found is most people like to keep the tag that they’ve got for the ones that are actually selling.

And then the next guy will get, you know, a new one himself.

Crew Chief Eric: I agree with you. And [00:38:00] the reason I’m bringing it up is because Because having worked with auction houses and other folks through other parts of the show, you’ll learn a lot. And even in the conqueror world, it’s very similar, but I see the auto bio tag as being this thing that once the car is sort of branded, it’s got that QR code.

I want to know where it’s been and where it’s going. So for instance, if it started in South America. That’s where it started. Now it’s in Florida. It ended up in Colorado and then it went to Japan and then it was in France and then it ended back in Florida. If all of that movement, you know, that where in the world is Carmen San Diego could be documented as part of the tag.

Like, where have you been and where are you going? Then it means the tag is grounded with the car and that’s part of its history. So I feel like making it it. Stuck to the owner means that there’s going to be breaks in the story. There’s going to be gaps. And when you try to put it all back together, you know, for instance, James Dean’s car, if it had a tag on it, they could have stayed permanently with the car, you’d know exactly where it was and where it’d been and all these kinds of [00:39:00] things.

But now we’re trying to put that jigsaw puzzle back together. Why did that three 56 speedster end up in Europe when it started in California? It doesn’t make any sense, right? Yeah,

Paul Rooprai: super good insight. And the short answer is. It’s possible. It’s possible to keep that tag on a car and transfer that ownership rather than just issue another tag to a new owner.

It’s possible to do that. And I actually think it’s a really cool idea because on each tag, it’s got a seven digit alphanumeric that’s unique to that tag. When I built the database to begin with, we put a million of them in there to start, and there’s never going to be another identical tag while I can clone a tag, meaning I can issue a new one that has a different alphanumeric on it and link them.

So that you can have two tags, you know, for one car if you want to carry one in your pocket or something like that. I love the idea of what you’ve got. Yeah, I totally get that.

Crew Chief Eric: In today’s digital world, especially with an emphasis on cybersecurity, how is the data protected? You talked a lot about sharing, the opposite of that is protection.

So how is data protected in Autobio?

Paul Rooprai: I can’t talk about all the details, obviously, but everything’s housed here in the U. S. on servers that [00:40:00] are here. If you don’t want to put any personal information out there, it’s never going to appear on any one of your sites. And the only thing that we ask of you that’s any bit personal is an email address that we want to be able to contact you and to set up your user account.

Everything else on there is completely optional. And so where this typically comes up where people are sensitive there, I don’t want somebody to be able to look up my car, you know, by seeing it. Well, I Unless you have a picture of the vendor, you put the vendor in there. That’s not possible unless you have pictures of your license plate.

So we tell them, you know, just white out the license plate on the picture, you know, and, um, eliminate that or don’t shoot it from that angle where, you know, you’ve got your license plate in there. We aren’t asking really for any kind of personal information too. So even if. People were to be able to kind of figure out who you are.

It would have to be through some other means other than, you know, like something in the photo or something like that, you know, all the metadata from photos is stripped out, we take as, as many measures as we can to keep things as clean as possible and as secure as possible for any user.

Crew Chief Eric: So with all of the new data protection rules in place, for instance, GDPR [00:41:00] came about in the last couple of years, if somebody decides I’m done with my biotag, I don’t even have the car anymore.

I want to delete my account is everything purged.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah, everything is purged. Yep,

Katie Rooprai: it works. It clean. We do have people say to that. I don’t want people to know where my car is garaged, right? I don’t know. Want them to know where to come and find it. And it’s like, absolutely not. It’s not tracking you. No, the tag is not a tracker.

It doesn’t actually activate anything until you are within like. A couple inches of it to activate the little chip in it. Right? So it’s not tracking you. It’s not locating where you’re driving around. And even the

Paul Rooprai: NFC for folks that don’t know NFC, it’s, you know, it’s similar to tap to pay and the energy that’s coming from your phone is what wakes up the chip on the antenna and it chirps back a basically URL.

That’s all it chirps back. And it just tells you, I’m going to take your phone and I’m going to send you to auto buyer to this particular car. So it’s all passive and there’s no way to track anybody. But for those that don’t know it, they might be like, why is there a little antenna on this thing?

Crew Chief Eric: So you said data is shareable between users.

Can [00:42:00] you, as the sharer limit what the sharee or receiver can see, or is it just carte blanche? Here’s everything in my profile. It’s shared with you.

Katie Rooprai: Yeah. You can’t toggle on and off different fields. Like if you don’t want other people to see it, don’t put it in there. There may come a point where at somewhere down the road, we enable password protected profiles, like where people.

They want to catalog all their stuff, but they don’t want anyone else to see it. We might do that down the road, but that’s not a thing right now.

Paul Rooprai: That scenario comes up with high end collectors that are going, I’ve got millions and millions of dollars with the cars here. I love the platform. It allows me to do what I can do with my wine and my cigars and my everything else that I like to catalog, but I don’t want it publicly facing.

There’s an opportunity for us in the future to pretty easily just password protected.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m sold. What does Autobiotag cost? Is there a subscription fee? Are there discounts for collections, museums, maybe some sort of multi pack?

Katie Rooprai: Autobiotags are 49, and that’s a one time fee. It’s yours for life. You can edit it as many times as you want.

There’s not a [00:43:00] subscription. That is actually the most gratifying thing to share with people, is that you are getting your own personal webpage that you get to customize and you get to tell the story for 49. We do offer group discounts. So if you have a club or a, a large collection or something, and you want to call us, we’re happy to work with you on that.

Paul Rooprai: If we show up at a show, it’s always a buy two, get one. It’s a show special as well. They make really good gifts for the car lover and you, you know, you know, you’re going to give it to somebody who is not going to be afraid of the technology. They do make good gifts. So we used to say that’s less than the price of a tank of gas, which I guess still holds true.

Now it’s

Katie Rooprai: significantly less than the cost of a tank of gas. So there you go.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah. At the end of the day, I mean, to be able to, to have your own custom webpage and something that’s going to live there forever and be on a site that’s dedicated to enthusiasts. I mean, that’s the other thing too, is it’s one thing to kind of, to build a custom webpage and have a tag on a car, but.

What we’re really hoping for in the vision over time is that this community really forms around the world of people that have these tags and [00:44:00] a dedicated site where they’re going to go and they’re not going to get a bunch of other crap. It’s just going to be, you know, stories and people with passions of all different kinds.

And so we hope that that’ll just sort of start morphing into subgroups and all of that within the site.

Crew Chief Brad: What happens when a tag is maybe lost or stolen or something like that? What happens to me at that point?

Katie Rooprai: You email us or you call us, which is all on the website, and we can make you a replacement tag.

So we, you don’t have to rewrite your story. We’ll duplicate your tag and then send you a new one. Charge about 10 for that. So no worry, and you haven’t lost your story. Your story hasn’t gone anywhere. A common story is anyone who has rolled down windows, which is not a lot of people anymore, but if you do, you might roll it right down into that, into that sleeve of the side door and then it’s gone.

Paul Rooprai: Or the other story is like you take it in for a detail and they took the tag off the window, clean the windshield off and didn’t stick it back on. They didn’t realize until later and now it’s gone, but it is a cling and not a sticker. You know, being car enthusiasts, we didn’t want stickers all over the [00:45:00] windshields.

That was kind of key. Like if you take it on a weekend and you park it one way and you’re showing off your car or it’s in a museum in one position, I swapped into another position. You really need to tag on the other side of the car. You can just peel it off and stick it back on the window since it’s static cling.

So it’s repositionable, which is nice.

Crew Chief Eric: Race car drivers like stickers. We want the low budget option. We need 20 of them, one for every panel of the car. It’s all good.

Paul Rooprai: And they all come with sponsorship money. So it’s a hundred percent.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s all contingency. Exactly. But that’s actually a great segment. We talked a lot about futures changes to the products, things that you guys are thinking about is a UV sticker, a low budget option versus the cling NFC list, something I can stick on the exterior of my car.

Paul Rooprai: And we actually get that request more times than you’d think for like the QR. So what we do is we send you a high res file. And you print it in however, you know, whatever format you want it. So that actually came up on that WACO plane I was talking about, came up on that, one of those campers, and then actually probably the most common use is, um, one of two things people want the QR to be able to put on [00:46:00] their showboard.

So they’ve already paid three or 400 Well, now I got a digital version too, called an autobiotag. Why don’t I stick the QR on it? If. People can’t get up to my windshield, especially cause it’s behind the ropes or whatever, so we can give you a replica. You can actually put wherever you want with that QR.

The other place that pops up, people want to put it in print media because maybe their car has been featured somewhere. So all the great photos are there and a little bit of the story. But if you want the deeper story, there’s the QR, you can scan it and you can go right to the Autobot tag. So we’re kind of trying to bridge that print and digital world as well.

Crew Chief Eric: Is there a way to download your QR code from the website?

Paul Rooprai: Not today, but you can give us a call and we’ll send you the high res files.

Crew Chief Eric: Any spoilers, any other future applications for Autobiotag that you guys are thinking about?

Paul Rooprai: You’d be surprised what people want to tag. There’s some cool opportunities there.

One of the most commonly requested features is, can I sell my car? Imagine a make me an offer button. Because again, we’re not out there trying to compete with bring a trailer, all those other really cool sites that are doing amazing stuff, but we’ve got the everyday car or maybe somebody’s got a whole collection, whatever, but that’s [00:47:00] something that we’re playing with in the future where, you know, you could pay a little extra and toggle that on.

And then it’s how do you connect the buyer and the seller in a way that, you know, we don’t have to mess with it. But basically it allows you to do that via the tag. That could be a cool iteration that that’s in the works.

Crew Chief Eric: Or even a way to flag the car to say this car is currently for sale. It’s available here.

It’s at auction, whatever to notify people that say, Hey, this car is up for grabs if you’re interested.

Katie Rooprai: People would like to know how many times their tag has been scanned. So having a front facing, you know, scan counter type of thing, other than a thumbs up

Crew Chief Eric: or

Katie Rooprai: a heart

Crew Chief Brad: might be

Katie Rooprai: interesting to people. And so that’s something we’re

Crew Chief Eric: thinking about.

Crew Chief Brad: Like a rolling odometer.

Crew Chief Eric: I was thinking about that too. It’d be really cool to see how many times my car ends up in somebody else’s baseball card set.

Paul Rooprai: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: for

Paul Rooprai: sure. But again, those are kind of all the fun things that are coming out as we launch this into the marketplace. And we’ve iterated on this any number of times in the last year and a half, which has been fun.

Like I remember going to a couple of shows and we’ve met some builders actually when we were at SEMA last year. One, one of their contests, we were one of 15 companies that made it through to kind of [00:48:00] this thing called Launchpad. There were about 250 companies that applied. And there we were at SEMA, which was like absolutely bonkers.

A number of builders that came up to us and said, Hey, this is really cool. I want to use this sort of for that like birth certificate idea. But they wanted to be able to caption photos. And at that time we couldn’t do that. So we went back, got our developers on that and then launched captioning and then also drag and drop rear range of photos, make it easier.

And so we’re definitely going to iterate on this platform. We’re in it for the long haul. You’ll see some new things come along. I mean, the planes coming on board boats are another thing that are down the pipe. Motorcycles are closer in quite honestly, just with the enthusiast world and that’s all coming.

The biggest challenge to all of this is just driving awareness, quite honestly, that this thing exists and because there was nothing quite like it in the market, it’s just a little bit of education for people. And then as soon as they get it, they’re like, Oh, this is awesome. Why didn’t I think of this?

Right. Or why haven’t I done this before? And then the next thing you know, there’s 50 bucks and you know, they’re off to the races. So

Crew Chief Eric: what is the Autobiotag street team?

Katie Rooprai: So that is a [00:49:00] program that we developed over the summer because we had a lot of people come to us and say, I know a lot of car people.

Can I sell these? The answer is yes. Yes, you can. So if you want to work with us as, and be an authorized reseller of tags, you buy in a block and then you buy at a significant discount and then you can go and resell to your folks. Car people know car people, right? And the truth is, Paul and I can’t be everywhere, and there’s so many great events happening, and there’s so many awesome shows and whatnot.

Yeah, we want people to go spread the word, and this is a great way to do it.

Paul Rooprai: So we do an interview, and we kind of get, you know, a vibe, and you’ve got to be, you know, a user, and show us that you can write a story, and kind of speak about the platform. But people get it, and Katie’s right. I mean, we get calls to be places all the time, and there’s just, there’s no possible way to, Physically be there.

And there are shows of all kinds. I mean, it’s not just like high end shows like Amelia, it’s anything and everything. Our idea is get it out in the market, the more the merrier. And we just absolutely love those stories.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. One final pit stop question, which is one of my favorites because it tells me a lot about who you are as a petrol [00:50:00] head.

And even if you’re not a super nerdy technical petrol head, like a lot of us are, you know, these two cars and it comes down to the boardroom scenario and you two being entrepreneurs making decisions all day long and fielding new ideas. The two ideas on the table are in silver, the Porsche 959, and in red, the Ferrari F40.

Which do you choose?

Katie Rooprai: I don’t

Paul Rooprai: know.

Katie Rooprai: I know you do. I have to think this through. I feel like this is a life or death situation for me right here.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the ultimate rivalry. Okay,

Katie Rooprai: I’m gonna go with the Porsche.

Paul Rooprai: F40 all day long.

Crew Chief Brad: No, no, you’re both wrong. The correct answer is the Ferrari F50.

Paul Rooprai: A little more analog on the F40.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve gotten so many substitutions for this question. Oh, can we do the Enzo instead? Can I do this? No, no, no. Stick within the parameters.

Paul Rooprai: I’ve been in Enzo. I’ve been in F40. I’ve been in F50. I’ll still take the F40.

Crew Chief Eric: Katie, welcome to a very small subsect of Petrelheads that enjoy choosing the 959. [00:51:00] Most people do select the F40 though.

Katie Rooprai: See, I don’t want to get pulled over. There were other things going on in my mind for that decision. You know, there were. She does have more

Crew Chief Eric: things than I do. But see, it makes sense. It’s the 959 is very subtle. It’s practical, technologically advanced. The F40 just rips. It’s just a beast.

Katie Rooprai: Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: I did have both posters on my wall as a child.

There

Katie Rooprai: you go.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, on that note, any shout outs, promotions or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Paul Rooprai: Buy a tag. It makes a great gift. That’s all I can say. It makes a great gift for yourself and quite honestly, it makes a great gift for your family because a lot of times you get people that, Oh, my dad’s got this great car and he loves it and he buffs it with a diaper and he’s been doing it for 50 years and it’s like, you know what?

Capture that story. Sit down with your dad, capture that story so that your whole family has that forever. It’s got that much sentimental value to it, you know, hang on to it for sure.

Katie Rooprai: I’m not sure we told people where to find us, but you can find us at autobiotags. com and that’s where you can buy a tag or get in touch with us or [00:52:00] reach out or search all the stories you want.

Crew Chief Brad: Your car has a story. Give it a voice with Autobiotags. Your custom auto bio tag goes inside your windshield and allows anyone with a smartphone to be able to scan the tag to reveal the photos, specs and story of your car car. So life just got a whole lot easier to learn more about this revolutionary platform.

Be sure to log on to www. autobiotags. com. We’ll follow Paul and Katie on social at Autobiotags on both Facebook and Instagram.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, Brad and Katie and Paul, I cannot thank you both enough for coming on break fix, sharing your petrol head stories and informing the rest of the world about the existence of Autobiotags.

And I really have to say that with all the technology that we’re surrounded with, you know, everything that we talked about, it’s awesome that you guys are at the front end of this. And we’re able to capitalize on the technology available today to be able to put all these stories. In our pockets, be able to pull them up, share them with our friends.

If our cars are traveling around, be able to share and express our feelings about our beloved [00:53:00] ones, you know, these vehicles with everybody that’s out there. So what you’re providing as a service to the hobby and to the enthusiast community as a whole is absolutely amazing. And I can’t thank you enough for doing it.

Paul Rooprai: We love car enthusiasts and we love the stories that are out there and we wouldn’t be doing anything else. It’s just been a wild ride.

Katie Rooprai: Thanks so much guys. Pleasure to be with you.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you [00:54:00] quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of Fig Newtons, Gummy Bears, and Monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
00:46 Introducing AutoBio: Revolutionizing Vehicle Storytelling
01:09 Meet the Founders: Paul and Katie Rooprai
01:31 Paul’s Petrolhead Origin Story
02:37 Katie’s Journey into Motorsports
05:46 The Birth of AutoBio
09:09 AutoBio’s First Tags and Expansion
13:36 Integrating Technology with Classic Cars
18:32 User Experience and Future Enhancements
26:15 Moderation and User Profiles
26:38 Tagging and Ownership Transfer
28:32 VIN Numbers and Data Privacy
31:11 QR Codes and NFC Technology
33:59 Use Cases and Future Plans
39:44 Data Protection and Security
42:44 Pricing and Discounts
48:55 Street Team and Reseller Program
51:24 Final Thoughts and Promotions

Bonus Content

Learn More

Scan the Tag!

AutoBio is the award-winning digital showcase for vehicles. Place your AutoBio Tag inside your windshield (it’s a cling, not a sticker). Anyone with a smartphone can scan the Tag to reveal the photos, specs and story of your car. No app download required.

Easy to Use

Easy fill-in-the-blank story builder. Update anytime.
No subscription fees.
Car shows & collections just got a whole lot cooler.

Tell a Friend!

To learn more about this revolutionary platform, be sure to logon to www.autobiotags.com or follow Paul and Katie on social @autobiotags on both Facebook and Instagram.

AutoBio is a physical tag that attaches to your vehicle and links to a digital profile. Scan it with your phone, and you’re instantly immersed in the car’s story – photos, specs, mods, and memories. It’s like a digital baseball card for your ride, accessible anytime, anywhere.

Whether you’re at a car show, on the track, or just parked at the grocery store, AutoBio lets you share your vehicle’s history without saying a word. It’s perfect for introverts, multitaskers, and anyone who wants to preserve and showcase their automotive legacy.

Who’s Using It?

From Trans Ams and Mustangs to campers, motorcycles, and even planes, AutoBio tags are popping up everywhere. Museums are tagging entire collections. Weekend racers are cataloging their builds. One enthusiast even put a tag on a golf cart with a great backstory. And it’s not just for cars that run. “We don’t care what you drive,” says Paul. “We don’t even care if it runs. If it has a story, it deserves a tag.”

Bridging Generations and Technologies

AutoBio is designed to be intuitive – even for those who claim to be tech-averse. Katie often reassures hesitant users: “If you can fill out a form online, you can build an AutoBio.” The platform walks you through the process step by step, making it easy to upload photos, write your story, and update your profile over time.

For collectors with multiple vehicles, AutoBio auto-catalogs everything under one username. You can even get a custom QR code on a challenge coin or a T-shirt to share your digital garage on the go.

Click the picture to check out our AutoBio Tags

AutoBio is still the only platform of its kind, but Paul and Katie are already thinking ahead. They’re exploring audio and video integration, allowing curators and owners to narrate their stories. Imagine scanning a tag and hearing Morgan Freeman describe your 2008 R32 – AutoBio wants to make that possible.

They’re also considering new features like mod sheets and build tabs to separate technical specs from personal stories, giving enthusiasts even more ways to showcase their vehicles.

AutoBio isn’t just a tech product—it’s a storytelling tool. It honors the emotional connection we have with our vehicles and makes it easier to share that passion with others. Whether you’re a seasoned collector, a weekend warrior, or someone who just loves a good car story, AutoBio helps you preserve and celebrate your automotive journey.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

The DeLorean Legacy: Kat DeLorean on Family, Innovation & the Untold Story Behind an Icon

Don W

February 14, 2023

The DeLorean Legacy: Kat DeLorean on Family, Innovation & the Untold Story Behind an Icon

In a world of chrome, horsepower, and myth-making, few names evoke as much intrigue as DeLorean. But behind the stainless-steel silhouette of the DMC-12 lies a deeper story – one of family, resilience, and relentless innovation. On this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we sit down with Kathryn “Kat” DeLorean, daughter of automotive maverick John Z. DeLorean, to explore the man behind the machine and the legacy she’s building to honor him.

Photo courtesy Angel Guerra, DeLorean Legacy Project

Kat’s journey begins not just with her father, but with her grandfather, a Ford employee and one of the first union leaders in the industry. She recounts chilling stories from her father’s childhood – goons ransacking their home, threats against the family – all part of the fight for workers’ rights. These formative experiences shaped John DeLorean’s grit and resolve, long before he ever set foot at Packard or Pontiac.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

John DeLorean’s early career at Packard was more than a stepping stone – it was a launchpad. Kat shares how her father’s innovations in automatic transmission design were sparked by a tragic accident involving a stuck accelerator. His solution? A reengineered transmission that laid the groundwork for modern drivetrains. It’s a reminder that behind every patent is a story, often personal, always purposeful.

The DeLorean name itself is a story of reinvention. Originally spelled without a space or capital “L,” John modified it to sound more exotic – a marketing move that turned a surname into a symbol. Kat dives into the family’s Romanian and Hungarian roots, tracing the evolution of the name and its significance in shaping the brand’s identity.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix podcast episode features Kat DeLorean, daughter of the iconic automotive engineer John DeLorean. The conversation covers the DeLorean Legacy Project, her father’s revolutionary contributions to the automotive industry, and the development of the iconic DMC 12. Kat shares personal anecdotes about her father’s life, his unyielding spirit, and his influence. The episode also delves into Kat’s current efforts to honor her father’s legacy through eduKational initiatives and the engineering program aimed at inspiring future generations. Discussion touches on the impact of Back to the Future on the DeLorean brand, the DeLorean Legacy Foundation’s mission, and the upcoming new car model JZD. Kat emphasizes the importance of fostering innovation and the spirit of ingenuity that her father championed.

What is DeLorean Legacy? – Take us on a journey. Many people think the DeLorean story starts at Pontiac, but your grandfather worked at Ford? I’ve heard that the DeLorean name was actually changed at some point? Delorian vs DeLorean? Was this the result of an Ellis Island scenario?
Tell us about the JZD that we don’t know?!?
When someone visits the Delorean Legacy website for the first time, what should they expect to see there, is it a time capsule, a memorial and an homage? What is the experience like?
Creating the John Z. DeLorean Foundation. What is that?
What is the John Z. DeLorean Automotive Engineering Program, what are the goals for the program? Who will be the beneficiaries? (and/or qualifiKations).
The future of the DeLorean name.
What’s next for Kat DeLorean?

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us, because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Starting as a book and growing into a movement, tonight’s guest seeks to accomplish the telling of the untold story of the maverick of General Motors who went on not only to inspire the American muscle car revolution, but to create one of the most iconic cars of all time, the DMC 12.

The DMC 12. Katherine, known to many of us as just Kat, DeLorean, yes, that DeLorean, started the DeLorean Legacy Project to help you learn all about the man himself with first hand information that expresses the joys [00:01:00] and trials of growing up a DeLorean. Kat interviews family and friends as part of the effort.

She shares stories, photos, and some of her father’s more intimate moments with his family, demonstrating how much of a loving and devoted father he was. And we are honored to have her here with us on Break Fix to give us a truly behind the scenes look at DeLorean. The man, the myths, and much, much more.

So welcome to Break Fix, Kat.

Kat DeLorean: Hello, thank you for having me.

Crew Chief Eric: So, like all good Break Fix stories, we usually ask people about their who, what, where, when, and why superhero origin. But in your case, I think a lot of people already know about that. So why don’t we talk about this DeLorean? DeLorean legacy project.

Why don’t you take us on a journey? Many people think that the DeLorean story started at Pontiac with your father, but your grandfather was also in the automotive industry, right?

Kat DeLorean: That is true. Actually, my grandfather, he worked for Ford and he was one of the first union leaders, which is pretty impressive back when it [00:02:00] was a lot more difficult to do.

So my father tells some really interesting stories in his book about what it was like growing up. The child of somebody who was a union leader in that time. One of the things that really touched upon me was the story of the goons that would come and threaten the family. And they would come and toss your house and look for anything that they could find that they could hold against you.

And he talked about hiding under the bed and how terrifying that was. And it just goes to show what people had to do to fight for these union rights back in the day.

Crew Chief Eric: So did they look like the 60s Batman goons with the bowler hats and the black t shirts that said goon or what?

Kat DeLorean: I kind of imagined something similar to that although I was thinking more Gangs of New York ish but big cartoonish sized men in the Gangs of New York ish style.

Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So your dad came by the automotive industry, honestly, then, you know, with your grandfather starting off at Ford, and then eventually your dad found his way to the story goes [00:03:00] Packard, right?

Kat DeLorean: Correct. Yes. He started at Packard and the accomplishments he had at Packard are what truly launched his career.

My husband was going through doing the research for the DeLorean Legacy Project, which includes researching his contributions to the automotive industry and his patents and things like that. And he was reading about his time at Packard and he stopped and looked at me and said, I think your father’s was so.

Responsible for how the modern automatic transmission works. And I said, yeah, he told me that story. It was because some old lady went off a causeway. And that’s actually an interesting story. I didn’t know that it led to the high dramatic transmission, but he did tell me the actual story of what led to that.

There was a woman who’s. Accelerator got stuck and she went off a causeway. He never wanted that to happen again. He went and he re engineered what he needed to, to prevent that from happening. My father is responsible for the way the original [00:04:00] modern automatic transmission, they’ve, the smart transmissions have been.

Come pretty far and pretty amazing.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk a little bit more about your family legacy. Like a lot of us here in the States, many of us came over either pre or post war as immigrants. And there’s all sorts of stories about names changing and being changed by officials at Ellis Island and things like that.

And so I’ve heard some rumors about the DeLorean name. It wasn’t actually the way we’ve all come to see it. It changed at some point it was spelled with an eye or it was with an E and this and that. And then there’s Some special things about the space between the D. E. and the rest of the Lorian. So why don’t we talk about that for a moment?

Kat DeLorean: Yes. So I actually have learned even more about my family name recently when I posted what I knew already about it on Facebook. So what I do know is that the name never had a space. And no capital L. This is for certain. My father added the capital L in the space because he wanted the name to sound more [00:05:00] exotic.

Crew Chief Eric: And the space is very significant too, right? Because it’s not a full character space. It’s like a half a space. It’s got, it’s very specific.

Kat DeLorean: He wanted it to be DeLorean, so of Lorian. I believe that is actually a space. Spanish name now, but at the time, at least before the internet, I didn’t know of anything that was DeLorean.

It wasn’t a real word. It wasn’t anything at all. It was my father made it up to sound French. As time went on, I was contacted by family in Hungary and they told the story of what happened when our grandfather left Hungary, he. He kind of left all the family behind. They had a hard time tracking him down until my father became famous.

And then they were able to actually reunite the whole family. And at the time I was told that it was spelled with an I, I don’t remember the story very well about how this came to be, but I believed for a very long time. That our name was changed from an I to an E. [00:06:00] My cousin recently contacted me and said, No, no, no, I did all the research and I traced back our heritage and it actually has always been an E.

Because she remembered when I was told all this or when we found all this out. It was always with an E. The lineage is still very small. If you look up, The number of people in the world with this name, it’s incredibly small and most are still in Romania. But the spelling of the name with the space like that, that was my father’s invention.

And he created that name because he wanted it to be more exotic and fun. It was all about the marketing. So the space in the capital L is a marketing ploy.

Crew Chief Eric: If you did a 23andme or, you know, one of these antres3. coms on the DeLorean genetics, your genetics, where does it trace back to you? Does it originate in Romania?

Is it French? Is it Italian? What is it?

Kat DeLorean: It’s Romanian. It originates in Romania. My grandfather’s from Romania and my grandmother was from Hungary, but she’s from the part of Hungary that. eventually became part of Romania [00:07:00] after the war. Interestingly enough, they’re both from Romania, but technically she’s Hungarian.

And that was important because my father actually spoke Hungarian. But when I say he spoke Hungarian, he knew how to say, can I have whipped cream on my hot chocolate, please? That was what he counted as speaking Hungarian.

Crew Chief Eric: Why don’t you tell us about the John DeLorean that we don’t know? Let’s talk about growing up Kat DeLorean, John’s daughter.

We’ve heard things about the jackknife exercises and he had a fascination with shoes and all this crazy stuff. So what are some other untold stories that you’d like to share?

Kat DeLorean: Oh, this one’s hard. I talked to Jason about this before we came because I’ve shared a lot of the stories that I can remember.

There’s very few stories that I haven’t told. There’s some that were jogged by reading his book, so those are still public, but I wanted to bring a new one. This one’s kind of funny. It also, it just kind of [00:08:00] encompasses the guy my dad was. I had a birthday party in California. And I was in elementary school.

So I was 10 years old and he threw me a birthday party at this pizza place called regular John’s. It wasn’t quite Chuck E. Cheese, but it was a place where you had pizza parties and he hired, I remember a puppeteer. So we at least had entertainment, but he was hoping some of the moms would stick around and help him out with an entire class.

Cause you had to invite the entire class, which was 25 students, 10 year olds at a pizza restaurant and nobody stayed. It was just my dad and 25, 10 year olds running around, screaming and throwing things and pizza everywhere. But to his credit, he entertained. All of us only lost one. No, he didn’t lose any of us.

It was one of the best parties that my friends had been to. Imagine [00:09:00] being left all by yourself with a bunch of 10 year olds and your whole life as an adult with children, you’ve had help. And when I say help. Lots of help. Many people you have paid to help you deal with this situation. And he never got upset or frustrated.

He just went with it and was laughing and you never would have known how terrified he was. and upset he was about the situation that he made very clear telling the story much later in life because he was just somebody who rolled with the punches. Fast forward to my 16th birthday which was a giant bonfire on our property in Bedminster.

One of the kids got pulled over on the way to the party, told the officer where the party was. A few hours later, an officer shows up at my house, and I go to my father, and I said, Dad, the cops are here, and he said, So? [00:10:00] I said, Well, they want to talk to you. He said, Well, kid. You made it to 1. 30, I think it’s a pretty good party.

And he closes the door and he walks up to the field, he looks the officer in the face and he says, What the hell are you doing on my property? Just like that. And the officer looks at him and says, Well, sir, we got a noise complaint. He says, Really? We’re in the middle of a field and I own every piece of property within three and a half miles of this very spot.

I told all of my tenants what was going to happen. You can’t hear the music from your car. Who the hell complained? And the officer just looked at him and he said, I didn’t think so. So if you can’t tell me who lodged the noise complaint, you’re trespassing. And I’d ask you to please get off my property.

Now we won’t talk about whether or not there was alcohol and teenagers involved in this situation, but the officer did have to vaKate the premises because. The local Bedminster police were [00:11:00] there monitoring the whole thing. That was kind of the guy that he was. He was a little bit on this side of, eh, let’s have some fun, you know.

And he rolled with the punches, and he just was a good dad. A good dad. Never let you see, uh, Him falter, I guess, and through pretty good birthday parties.

Crew Chief Eric: So your dad from the outside, all of us see him as this strong striking figure, very assertive, very confident. Was he able to pass that on to you and instill confidence?

Raising daughters, especially many, many years ago was different than it is now, right? We treat all kids as equals. We want to give them all the possible opportunities, but we still want to maybe give a little extra to the girls out there. So. What did your dad instill in you?

Kat DeLorean: He never treated me differently because I was a girl, never allowed me to [00:12:00] believe that I should be treated differently because I was a girl.

He understood how difficult it was going to be in the world that I came from. And the world we still lived in to be able to have a mind like I did and be able to define yourself in science and technology and engineering. It’s a big deal. Women in STEM is a big deal. There weren’t a whole lot of us and there was a lot of things that I had to face.

that weren’t so pretty. One of the biggest things that he did was he never allowed me to be treated differently or feel different. He didn’t even compensate for it. You know, when you’re compensating for it and you can tell you’re compensating, he literally just treated me the same. He fostered a true, nothing is impossible, Mentality in me, there were no questions that couldn’t be answered or obstacles that couldn’t be overcome [00:13:00] if we just figured out a way.

Engineers don’t see walls or problems. They see puzzles that need to be solved the biggest thing he did. And so this is key. This is something that I actually believe that I failed in some way to provide to my Children in the way that he did for me. So I’ve reflected a lot on this exact question. He provided for me opportunities to succeed and to fail and to succeed from those failures.

He allowed me opportunities to make mistakes and to see that those mistakes were not life ending, that they led to new knowledge and understanding. He did this by exposing me to as many things as he can, as many opportunities as he could. Jason used to joke at me, you did everything. Like I was making up the fact that I did everything.

And then he realized, I was not just saying, I played the flute, and the piano, and the guitar, [00:14:00] and the drums, and ice skated, and played basketball, and played soccer, and did all of these things, no. I did all of these things because he got me voice lessons, and ice skating lessons, and horseback riding lessons, and tennis lessons, and Took me as many places as I could go and not everybody has that opportunity to pay for all these things that I had.

But what we do have is the opportunity to give our children a chance to succeed and fail on their own merit. You can go get them a little keyboard and allow them to learn an instrument and to face how difficult it is to learn how to read music. To instill the confidence in our women and our men and our non binary people, we have to give them opportunities to understand what it feels like, the intrinsic motivation that comes with hard work paying off, and the understanding, the support that when they fail, you’re going to be there to help [00:15:00] guide them, that they’re not going to Katch on fire, that the world is not going to end.

That’s what he taught me.

Crew Chief Eric: So your dad dreamed big. I mean, the DeLorean, the vehicle was a dream realized in some aspects, but for you, what were his aspirations? What were his dreams? Did he want you to go into the automotive industry or did he have other plans?

Kat DeLorean: He wanted me to do what made me happy, no matter what it was.

He taught me that same thing I told my kids. If you want to pump gas and that’s what makes you happy, I support you. I will support you till you can support yourself. If you wake up every single day, excited to go pump gas. Why? Cause you’re going to be successful in life and happy. You will wake up every day thinking about how to make your customers have a better gas pumping experience.

So you’ll invent a better gas pump or you’ll own a bunch of gas stations, but it doesn’t matter how much money you make, as long as you can live, you’ll You’re going to have a much more fulfilled life if you’re happy doing [00:16:00] what you want to do. He had a lot of things that he wanted for me. He really, really, really wanted me to be a famous actress.

Really badly and he supported that I loved acting. I had a lot of fun. I wasn’t so keen on the fame part of it. And so that was when I was like, yeah, you can’t do one without the other. So we’re just going to go ahead and not do that. But he was very, very careful to support anything I wanted to do. He wanted me to find my own way.

Unfortunately, he gave me so many experiences and so many opportunities and so much background and things I literally could have done almost anything I wanted to do and then that became a problem because you can’t decide what to do. And then I just kind of did what came my way, which was a pretty cool job in computers.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk a little bit more about the DeLorean Legacy and the website that goes [00:17:00] along with it. So when someone visits the DeLorean Legacy project website for the first time, what would they expect to see there? Is this a time capsule? Is this a memorial? Is this an homage? What’s the experience like?

Kat DeLorean: It’s sort of like a digital museum and an homage is a good statement. What I wanted to provide to the community is a place that people could find the positive impacts that my father has had on this world. And that starts with the high dramatic and no more old ladies going off causeways. And it goes all the way through to the DMC 12, which Has this story of inspiration, which inspired the Zalorian Legacy Project.

What you should hope to find are the stories that inspired others, the accomplishments that my father has had. Throughout his life, we’ll have all of his patents, stories collected from myself and [00:18:00] family members that help show you the man we knew and the things that you won’t find anywhere else. And a place where you can hear the stories of the people whose lives he touched and inspired because the owners.

here. The owners are why I started this. Their stories about how when they first saw the car or heard his story right from Pontiac through the DMC, people’s lives have been changed and impacted in Drastic and dramatic ways that are incredible from people becoming humans who rescue other humans to finance managers to mechanics, art directors, you name it, they’re inspired by this car and their lives are changed.

And how amazing is that? Decades after he’s passed on, he still inspires people’s lives through what he’s done. So this is what that is. This is to help maintain that inspiration, to [00:19:00] share it, to collect it, to give it back to the people who kept this legacy alive for so long and give them what they’ve always asked for.

A place somewhere that people can find the truth, the real story, the positive impact, and what this car, his other cars, His whole story, what it means to all of the people who have been inspired by him over the years,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s a very powerful statement for sure. And visiting the website myself and looking at everything that’s there, turning pages, going, I didn’t know that was a thing.

I didn’t know that was the thing. That’s pretty cool. To be honest with you, your dad comes up more often than not, even on this show. And it’s almost surprising when you go back and listen to the 150 plus episodes that are out there, how many times DeLorean comes up in conversation. It doesn’t matter what you’re talking about.

It’s just absolutely amazing. So I think what you guys are doing and what you’re putting together and the pieces that you’re collecting, whether it’s from the family side, whether it’s From the fan base [00:20:00] from the archives, it’s an absolutely mammoth undertaking to collect all this stuff. But in addition to that, it’s something to your point that needed to have been done years ago.

Kat DeLorean: You know, it’s funny is that that whole, I didn’t know that I can’t tell you how many times that keeps happening to me during this whole project. So for instance, I don’t know if you know about. Grand Prix of America and Malibu Grand Prix. So my childhood was spent at the arcade. And Malibu Grand Prix was a huge part of my childhood.

We were there all the time. And I found out they stole that from him. That’s crazy. My father invented, that was his thing. Wow. Oh my gosh, I found this out because there’s a guy whose father owned one of the tracks and he’s restoring the cars and he’s reconnecting with his father’s story. And he reached out to me and he said, did you know this?

I went, no, I didn’t know this. Oh my gosh. And it ties to my cousin [00:21:00] and my uncle Jack. And so I contacted my cousin and she’s like, Oh yes, I have all that Grand Prix of America stuff. So now we’re on a whole journey of reconnecting. It’s incredible. Cool. 20 years after my father died, I get to relive his life in a way that you couldn’t even imagine.

It’s

Crew Chief Eric: incredible. Some people that aren’t as deep into it would probably be shocked to realize that your dad didn’t stop designing cars after the DMC 12. There were several prototypes and concepts and vehicles after that. And it’s just like, Wow. Like, did you know that? And those are the kinds of things that you do find on the website and lots of internal documentation as well that I found fascinating.

Kat DeLorean: Interestingly enough, there was a gyroscopic kinetic engine that my father and I designed together. I had a poor man’s patent on it. Might still have that somewhere. I do believe that it ended up having something to do with a whole mass purge when my daughter was born. But I do still know my patent [00:22:00] attorney, so I am going to get in touch with him and find out if he has it.

He was inventing engines and he had a car company right after his court case was over. Immediately after his court case was over, he and Fred Dulles had a new car company in Louisiana, had a whole factory to actually build cars. It was a done deal. Something happened, but he was just going and going and going constantly, always trying to bring back his car company.

He believed in what he wanted to do and he didn’t want to see it die. It wasn’t about him. It was about doing what was right. It was a little about him because he was pissed off that they just wouldn’t stop. He wrote a book called the GM Repair Manual. And it was all about how GM made the mistake of creating Saturn instead of investing in their existing line.

If they had just invested 25 cents more per truck in the [00:23:00] cloth interior of their work trucks, then the cloth would last the lifetime of the truck and they’d have better customer satisfaction. I remember I said to him, I said, why not do that? He said, 25 cents per truck times millions of trucks is a lot of money.

Still didn’t make sense to me because, I don’t know. Add the 25 cents to the cost of the truck, but that’s not the way it works. He was always trying to do something and reinvent himself and come back. And he never, never gave up. He never stopped dreaming until the very end. He was trying to create a golf course.

I have all the plans. We’re going to put them up soon for Lamington Estates golf course. The whole golf course was planned out. He invented soda pop and shoes and maglev trains and a tennis racket. Apparently my husband’s like, did you know your dad invented a tennis racket? No, I didn’t know he invented it.

He invented a tennis racket.

Crew Chief Eric: Apparently

Kat DeLorean: a whole new tire manufacturing process. All that stuff. Who

Crew Chief Eric: knew, right? Who knew? You know what you said about [00:24:00] His continued work after the fact and even some of that consulting back to GM, whether they wanted it or not, it’s rather ironic in the sense that his first book, which he didn’t write, but he dictated and we’ll probably talk about this on a subsequent episode.

I’ve read it on a clear day. You can see General Motors. I’ve said this before on a previous episode. There are nuggets of knowledge in that book that are still valid and very poignant. Even today, nearly 45 plus years later, he wrote that in the seventies. It was published in the eighties, all that, but it’s just an incredible read and the insight into his mind and how he saw not only the automotive world, but the American business world.

You sit there and you read it and you go, he’s right. He’s right. Nothing’s changed in 45 years. He’s still right. So I don’t know that, you know, he necessarily wanted to be right. You know, a lot of us want to be right. We all have that inner need, but he’s right up there, at least in my opinion, with [00:25:00] other visionaries like IACOCA, like Bob Lutz, like other people that stood back and said, look, guys, there’s another way to do this.

Just listen to me for a second. And sometimes that plays out okay, and other times, you know, we suffer silently and come up with alternatives.

Kat DeLorean: It’s very interesting because I haven’t actually read all of On a Clear Day yet. That’s what I’m actually reading now. I did just finish up to the Hoffman part of his book for the first time.

And when I read it, I realized something incredibly profound. My career has mirrored his. Only in information security, right up to retiring at 44 to go do my own thing. It’s been incredible to understand that I am my father in so many ways. And one of them was. I was a hacker at a Fortune 100 financial institution.

Pretty cool job. My whole performance plan had a [00:26:00] non management track. I had been a manager, I’d been a senior leader, and I had decided I no longer wanted to do that. And my stepfather had asked me, then, how do you succeed? I said, well, I woke up one day and I had four job offers in two days. One of them was my dream job.

I wake up every day, sometimes at 7 30 and decide I’m just going to go to work because I’m excited to do it. I think I have succeeded because I enjoy what I do. And I haven’t worked a day since I started my job. What happened after that was I was able to define myself in a specific way where I said, this is who I am and this is who I’m going to be, take it or leave it, because I was so sought after as an employee and what that allowed me to do was be the one people got to blame for doing the right thing.

I found a way to. Impact the change that I wanted to see by offering people an essentially a sacrificial lamb to blame for not [00:27:00] having to do the wrong thing to still behave in the way that things were always done, or to just be able to kind of get around some of these things that were always done a certain way.

There’s a new way to do it. Kat says so. And it made me very excited to read on a clear day for the very reasons that you were just describing it going, Oh my gosh, I can’t wait. I can’t wait. I can’t wait because I really do want to get into his mind after working, especially in the banking industry and seeing a highly regulated corporate environment.

And there are reasons why it functions that way. I believe that part of what was missing from his perspective. On business and how it functions in the way that he saw was so incorrect is the change management risk management process that exists that has to exist in order to prevent Katastrophic failure.

Now there are better ways to go about addressing it. A lot of his ideas. [00:28:00] Encompassed what would have brought us to the next level of corporate reform. And a lot of things that would have led to what is now in technology, like the ITIL processes, the things that allow us to function in a more dynamic way in corporate environments, in reality, a lot of his problems with what was going on in corporate America, aside from the politicking, Jason calls it.

Tiny peepee syndrome. Is it for everybody though? Like it’s just you feel smaller than everybody else and then you aren’t willing to give up whatever piece of your control that you have. He wanted that to stop. Where he failed in his approach is You’re not going to get it to stop. You need to stop trying to get it to stop and understand how to function within it’s malfeasance.

It’s malfunctioning. A lot of growing up John DeLorean’s daughter was being able to understand it. He was able to impart on me, even though he was taken from me when [00:29:00] I was just starting my career. So I was in my early twenties, mid twenties, late twenties, sorry. The whole birthday thing. That’s a funny story.

Asked me some time about how I didn’t know how old I was when I married my husband. That’s a good one. Um, yeah. Anyway, I was in my 20s when my dad died. You aren’t really an adult and have formed your whole adult life yet. But I was able to learn from him. He still allowed me to take what he had, his knowledge, and build upon it.

And I still was able to take it to the next level. And he did that because later in life, he understood that he wasn’t going to beat them at the game. And he taught me to let it go. He taught me to understand what I call knowing your animal. In the corporate environment, in the business world, you’re always going to come across somebody who’s going to upset you for whatever reason.

They’re going to be lazy, unreliable, angry, mean, all whatever. The thing is, is you can’t control that. You can’t control that they’re lazy or mean or uh, whatever. You can’t control [00:30:00] how it impacts you. As long as you know that maybe they’re not lazy, they’re just unreliable to you and you don’t know why.

Maybe they have like 18 kids at home and a sick mom and all this other stuff going on that you have no insight into and you just are angry at them because they can’t dediKate enough their entire life to sitting in front of a computer like you can. I learned to let it go and to look at what they were saying as to why they can’t meet my needs.

How can I get you to still meet my needs and not fight you anymore? That’s what I learned from my dad and his approach and how I was able to take it to the next level and where I see his fallacies in his approach were. But I believe he saw that too. And he taught me. To look at it differently than he did.

Very grateful to him for that. One of the best parts about growing up as his kid.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, our audience probably needs to take a deep breath after all this, right? So why don’t

Kat DeLorean: we

Crew Chief Eric: lighten the mood a little bit with some [00:31:00] break, fix, pit stop questions. So of all the cars your dad created, which is your personal favorite?

This could be going back to the Packard days, his time at Pontiac, the DMC 12, everything before, after, and during. Or is there something else that we don’t know about that you really, really liked? My car. Oh, that’s a Firebird WS6 from the look of it.

Kat DeLorean: Yes. 1998 WS6. My car. I fell in love with this car when I saw it in a magazine.

I saw the ad. It said to a bug, it’s a 350 horsepower blender. I lived in New York city. I couldn’t get one. He called an old Pontiac dealer of his to actually have one procured for me in black because that’s what I wanted. I couldn’t get a manual, but I did get black when I brought it home, he walked around it.

And gave it a look that only now I can appreciate as a father of this car. He sat in it and the driver’s seat looked at me and he said, I named this car, did you know that? He was so proud of this car. It was so beautiful to him. He [00:32:00] said they did a really good job with it. That’s my favorite. Next, 66 TriPower GTO.

Crew Chief Eric: So you brought up something interesting because it’s a thing in the enthusiast community to name one’s car. It’s very prevalent in the Volkswagen community that all Volkswagens have names. So I’m wondering, did your dad’s first DeLorean, it bears his name, your family name, but did he have a name for the first DeLorean?

Kat DeLorean: Hmm, I wonder. I never asked my father what the names of his cars were, but every vehicle I have has always had a name, and I want to say that’s because he taught me to name my vehicle. I will have to ask if anybody knows. I recently got back in touch with the caretaker of our farm growing up for 15 years.

His son was my best friend. He took care of my father’s DeLoreans. I posted the picture on Facebook so I can ask him, did dad have a name for his cars?

Crew Chief Eric: So that brings me to another all time favorite Pit Stop question, which [00:33:00] is, What’s the sexiest car of all time?

Kat DeLorean: The concept Mako Shark Corvette.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, that’s a really good answer.

You’re the first person to bring that car up.

Kat DeLorean: I actually got to see the actual concept car once. My first car was a Morgan. My next car was a Mercedes, but the first car I picked out that was mine was a Z28. And there was only one guy who was allowed to work on it at the Corvette Connection in Van Nuys.

And one day, I was like, He called us up and he said he had the concept car to be worked on at the shop. And we got to go down and actually see it. And it is just as gorgeous as all of the pictures. That is why my Z06 is my favorite. That body style. Actually looks a lot like the Mako Shark and I have it in the gray.

Crew Chief Eric: Which generation Z06? C5? C6?

Kat DeLorean: C7.

Crew Chief Eric: So now I gotta ask you the opposite of that question, which is, What’s the ugliest car of all time?

Kat DeLorean: The Dale.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, wow! You’re two for two tonight.

Kat DeLorean: [00:34:00] Well, it’s not even a real car.

Crew Chief Eric: So we can probably have a whole episode on what your dad thought about the Dale if he met Elizabeth Carmichael, like all that fun stuff.

I do have another question though, because oddly enough, a Pontiac product does come to the rescue of this question every time we ask it as an answer and that’s the Aztec. So I’m wondering, what did your dad think about the Aztec as a Pontiac man?

Kat DeLorean: I love the Aztec. Oh my God. I love the Pontiac. I wanted one so badly.

I can’t tell you what he really thought of it because I really liked that stupid car! It was the most ridiculous, terrible SUV, and I loved it so much because of the stupid camper that came with it. And I love camping, and that marketing campaign got me, and he Totally called me out on it. It was not a great car, and he was somewhat vocal on the fact that it [00:35:00] was not a great car because I did not get one.

Which means he very much convinced me not to get one, and I wanted one very badly. Unless there was a very good reason to not own it that was safety or reliability or something related, he would not convince me not to do something just because he didn’t like it. He had to have a good enough reason. It could have been poorly engineered, but still then he’ll just say it’s poorly engineered.

And leave it at that. He was very careful not to try and make us into the people he wanted us to be. He wanted us to be individuals.

Crew Chief Eric: If you visit the DeLorean Legacy website, there’s lots of really cool stories on there. You had a vlog for a while telling some really intimate backstory, some funny ones too.

And it reminds me of the story of the banana yellow NSX. That your dad had and being pulled over and fleeing the cops by pulling in the garage and all this kind of fun stuff. And it made me wonder, your dad was in the car world. He was the godfather of the muscle car, you know, with the [00:36:00] introduction of the GTO and all that.

And even the DeLorean, the DHC 12 itself is a sports car. My question is, did your dad do any racing, or was he in the motorsports world in any way?

Kat DeLorean: I actually had to ask Jason this question, because I assumed my dad raced around with us on motorcycles and in his cars and all this stuff. But it was something that I actually wondered not too long ago, and he’s been doing racing.

A lot of the background research, well, I talk to people because if I’m doing the research, I can’t talk to everybody. And yes, he did. He was very close to Smokey Unic. I’m sure he raced around with him quite a bit, but he raced with Roger Penske. He did cart racing. He started the Grand Prix of America.

That whole thing was his whole deal. I don’t think that he was necessarily a race car driver himself. However, I bet Roger Penske would know. He raced around in lots of different things. Whether or not he participated [00:37:00] officially in racing, not so sure.

Crew Chief Eric: I think the other question people would like to know, especially in the DeLorean enthusiast world, you know, they always start their emails or sign their emails.

Hello from, or signing off from VIN number one, two, three, four, or whatever it is. Do you own a DMC 12 and what’s the VIN?

Kat DeLorean: I. Don’t, but I am going to build my own first DeLorean. So I was going to have a DMC 12, Don Steger was going to build me an LS DMC. Unfortunately he passed away before I made that a reality.

Now there’s a few different ways that I might just come about my own DeLorean. My first one, however, is. Very likely going to be a JZD.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, so let’s expand upon that. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about it?

Kat DeLorean: So the model JZD came to me because of the DeLorean Legacy Project. [00:38:00] Angel Guerra contacted me and he told me, Hey, I designed this car as a tribute to your father.

It’s a 40th anniversary version. of the original DMC 12. He took Giugiaro’s original designs and documentation, and he applied modern day design principles to it. So he took the exact designs and said, If he were to design this car today, what would it look like? And then he had to change some things to accommodate the intakes for the electric engine and that sort of stuff.

So there are some things that were changed because it was a different type of engine in the car. Overall, the car that you see that was designed, the model JZD is intended to be an exact. Modern version of what the car would have been if she had designed it today. It came to be, I was going to be writing this book.

I was trying to figure out how to reconnect with all the fans and gathered their [00:39:00] stories. Angel came to me with this car and then said, by the way, I have this website, glory and legacy. com at the time I was trying to register the Lori and legacy. com got pretty upset because it was gone. It was parked, there was nothing on it, and I was told it was probably purchased to prevent it from being used by anybody else.

So as I’m being upset about this, Angel says, Oh, I have this website and I wanted to create a place where people could write letters to your dad and tell him what he meant to them. I said, Are you kidding me? Because that’s kind of what I’m trying to do. Let’s do this thing together! And he gave me the website, which Alan Portillo had designed the original one, and the renderings that were on the car.

And as we started to just connect with people and go through all of this, everybody said, Let’s build the car. I said, well, you know, I’m working on this engineering program and maybe we can build the car to promote this engineering program. What if we built the car? Maybe we [00:40:00] do a show where we record us building the car for the engineering program.

And all of a sudden, people started to come from all over. I have people in the automotive industry that, I love your dad, I have a manufacturing plant, let’s go ahead and let’s make it, I know how to make body dyes, let’s do it, I worked for your father and went on Tony V, he had a manufacturing at Chrysler, he wants to work with us, we’re gonna contact the original prototype house and work to build it there, and then I have Bill Collins, We Sending me people to work on the engines and the rest of it is being built with the help and the energy and the ideas of the fans, because all of this is because of all of you and is happening with all of you.

And I sort of am letting that be the driver of it. The car is being built to fund the engineering program. What is core to what needs to be done is that it must be something that [00:41:00] helps to Change the world in a positive way and keep the momentum of the DeLorean Legacy Project to provide these opportunities to people.

The engineering program is going to allow high school students to be a part of the car manufacturing and engineering process. It’s going to make kids excited about making cars, and it’s going to bring some of my father’s ideals and principles to life. To the automotive industry and help fund the research that allows everybody to make cars that are more reliable, fuel efficient, safer and more durable and the things that were important to him and because I want it to be a nonprofit car company.

It’s kind of happening in a way I never anticipated. Everybody, everybody wants to be a part of it. The JZD is this iconic representation of the inspiration that my father is to the world. And I’m going to use it to make my dream happen, which is to change the world one person at a time through mentorship and opportunity.

Crew Chief Eric: What you just described with the STEM program in [00:42:00] the high schoolers, that’s part of the John Z. DeLorean Automotive Engineering Program. And that backs into the John Z. DeLorean Foundation as well, the nonprofit organization that you were mentioning. What other components are inside of that and who are some of the beneficiaries of the nonprofit?

Kat DeLorean: We have a cool little mission statement. The DeLorean Legacy Foundation understands that everyone has a dream, but not everyone has the tools to achieve it. The goal of the foundation is to bridge the barriers to equal opportunity and access to fulfilling careers across multiple employment sectors through innovative and thoughtful approaches to eduKation and community support.

The idea is we’re starting with a teen center and this automotive engineering program. It’s going to encompass all of STEM. It’s starting with automotive engineering because that’s what’s available to us. That was what was inspired by my daughter’s boyfriend who had to choose between auto shop and engineering in the two voKational schools.

We hope to build this out. We want [00:43:00] to bring opportunity to communities that will allow people to have those dream careers. Be successful because they’re passionate about what they’re doing. Not every school district and not every system has the ability and the freedom to design these programs or the ability to partner with corporations.

We would love to partner with corporations. Major automotive brands who want to allow us to help fund their research and development through these high school programs. I’ve worked with these STEM kids when I was at my financial institution in these award programs that we sponsored. These students, they were 16 years old.

One was winning the National Intel science competition. Another was synthesizing a new protein at Cornell university. And another was graduating high school, owned her own app company and was making prosthesis for other people at 16. These kids can help design better cars and cut [00:44:00] the cost of research and development for the major manufacturers, as well as lead to rewarding careers in these fields.

We want to help provide these opportunities, preserve land that can be used to study, to create scientific nature preserve study, climate science, whatever we need to do to innovate in this world that we’re in now, that we can leverage this wonderful name. That my father gave me this incredible community, all of this inspiration to help people right now at a time when couldn’t we all just use just a little bit more of it

Crew Chief Eric: like us, your East Coast base.

So where is the foundation going to be headquartered out of?

Kat DeLorean: I want to say Greenville, New Hampshire, because that’s where our mill is. But I stopped because I currently live in Antrim, New Hampshire, and that was not a mistake. Antrim, I learned, when buying this house, a Googling the sign on the barn is where the car was built in Ireland.[00:45:00]

The Irish Times says the first 10 cars rolled off the line in County Antrim. So I’m kind of thinking, maybe It should be here. However, for now, it’s in Greenville. Anyway you slice it, it’s in New Hampshire.

Crew Chief Eric: Which is pretty cool because not only do you not see a lot of car companies east of Detroit, you definitely don’t see them in New England.

So that’s pretty neat as well.

Kat DeLorean: Well, that’s the foundation. There is a whole DeLorean back in Detroit. Aspect to this that we haven’t even got to that’s a whole thing. Jason’s working on. There’s a whole pitch for DeLorean’s back in the Motor City, which is so cool.

Crew Chief Eric: I hear the old Packard factory is still empty So you never know right?

Kat DeLorean: So Tony V was an apprentice at the prototype house. And the program we want to build will help high school students actually enter into these apprenticeship programs. We want to have a sponsorship for them. So the first year of entering into the apprenticeship program, we want to [00:46:00] offer them a sponsorship for cost of living.

So they have all of their basic needs met as well as provide them the support that they need. I call it a 1 800 adult so that they have somebody that they can reach out to, to ask for All of the silly questions about figuring out life. We want to give people the best opportunity for success in life overall.

Crew Chief Eric: So, I mean, all of this is absolutely, it’s unreal. It’s super cool. I mean, I can’t believe another car is coming to light, you know, everything you’re putting together. We get really excited about STEM programs here, especially more women in the automotive industry or in science and engineering, especially.

especially in the past. We’ve talked with other people that are doing lunar racing as part of STEM and bringing kids into that another facet of this world of engineering. Like we’ve talked about before it’s even more than STEM. It’s what somebody else referred to as steam. There’s a silent a in there and that’s the artistic side.

And I want to take that. is back to the beginning of this part of the segment where we were talking about [00:47:00] the concept car. Are you building that exact car or a car based on that car?

Kat DeLorean: No, we’re actually going to be building angels. So angel is going to engineer the car. For whatever we build the car for, what I mean by that is, as I mentioned before, the car is a modern design based on Jijaro’s original designs, and it was modified for the electric engine.

We might not be doing an electric engine. We’re actually exploring different options as far as different combustion, hydrogen, and electric options. So the car may be re engineered as. Far as adjusting the intakes and what needs to be adjusted for aerodynamics based on the type of drive train that we have in the car.

However, the car was designed by Angel as a tribute to my father. Changing it would not be correct. That’s his car. This project, this is all driven by the fans. It’s for the fans. I’m just here to be Spartacus.

Crew Chief Eric: That being [00:48:00] said, as a fan myself, of all the designs I’ve seen, Angel’s design is true to form.

Exactly what you’re saying. When I saw that first hit, and there’s other variants out there that exist, and some that are more recent than others, it’s When I see that car, I go, that’s the new DeLorean. And there’s just something about it. It does scream Giugiaro as well. And I do want to explore the relationship between your dad and Giugiaro in a subsequent episode, because there’s a lot of mystery around that as well.

How did that happen? Your dad’s a car designer, you know, those kinds of things, but we’ll put a pin in that for now. But it brings us to your point about doing this for the fans, doing this for the enthusiasts, bringing back the name, bringing back a car that pays homage to use the word from earlier to your father.

It really has to do with the future of the DeLorean name. What’s part of the DeLorean lifestyle? What’s the message there? And what are some of the awesome items that every DeLorean fan should probably have in your opinion? [00:49:00]

Kat DeLorean: So to me, the DeLorean lifestyle is To be who you are and be loud and proud about who you are.

My dad was the maverick at GM. He wore jeans and converse in his big corporate office because he wanted to be comfortable because that’s how he worked best. He was unapologetic for who he was. Being a DeLorean means as long as you’re doing the right thing, don’t apologize for who you are. Be who you are.

Be proud. Be kind. Thoughtful and considerate of others. My father didn’t judge other people. He didn’t look at anybody as flawed. He looked at everybody as simply needing just a little bit more help with different help or more support. Some people might need more tools. They might need more money. They might need more time, but they can still do it to write them off because they can’t do it as fast or as cheaply [00:50:00] without support is unfair.

You should allow people to follow their passions because they can innovate. It’s about believing that the people that you employ for the job that you employ them for are the ones that are the experts. In that field, trust in your team, trust in the people that you hire. It’s about inspiring others and always taking the time to say hello and have compassion.

And just listen. People say my dad encompasses this rock star life. That dude never left his couch. He was a shut in. But if you knocked on his door, like Ken Baker did once and said, Mr. DeLorean, I got your pizza. He’ll invite you in, eat it with him because he likes the company. It’s about random acts of kindness, just because you can’t.

That’s what it’s about.

Crew Chief Eric: Many of us love to sport all sorts of logoed kit. Even [00:51:00] myself on this episode, I’ve got my DMC t shirt on. I’m wearing my DeLorean watch by Charlie Foxtrot, which I’ve raved about in the past. It’s a gorgeous watch, by the way, reminiscent of the louvers on the back of the DMC 12.

And behind you, I believe, rumored, that picture is actually from your dad’s office of the DMC 12. So what should every DeLorean owner or DeLorean fan put on their Christmas list this year?

Kat DeLorean: They should put what they want. Okay. So that’s not a fair question. That’s not the way that I work. I work the way my father does.

And I’m going to tell you that you should support the person that you most want to. For me, I love Nick Patello and his wares. They were great to me. He gave me my wonderful sweatshirt that I’m not wearing. That says DeLorean daughter. But I don’t want to tell people what they should or should not have. I love how everybody gets really picky about the options in their [00:52:00] car like they had a choice.

I mean, everybody has their own thing that they love. What you should put on your Christmas list. This year is one thing that reminds you the most of the time you first saw the car and why it inspired you. That’s what you should put on your Christmas list this year. And for each person, it’s going to be different.

Crew Chief Eric: And then send that to you at DeLorean legacy. org so you can get it up on the website, right?

Kat DeLorean: Yes. Yes. And then send a picture and your story

Crew Chief Eric: for a lot of people. Seeing the car the first time was due to the Back to the Future franchise. So in our final Pit Stop question for this episode, what were your thoughts about seeing the DeLorean DMC 12 up on the big screen for the first time?

Kat DeLorean: When that movie came out, everything was still very not good. We never really talked about the car. We never really talked about what happened with the car. We didn’t bring it up. Just kind of like a. thing we [00:53:00] didn’t talk about. Oh, it came up later in life. As I got older and I turned into a teenager, we talked about it more in different ways.

Mostly what we talked about was how he felt about his workers in Ireland and how he felt about Ireland. He offered that up. a lot. It just never came up. So there wasn’t really an opportunity for a relationship with the car and merchandise. And

Crew Chief Eric: not even that it’s part of the legacy it gave. Yeah. It turned a lot of things around for the DMC 12.

And so I wonder, has anybody from Hollywood reached out to you as part of this project or anything like that? Are you working with them on anything?

Kat DeLorean: No, we have plans to get in touch with some of the people that I’ve spoken to and worked with over the years through the jewelry community, like Bob Gale. I love the Back to the Future franchise itself.

Not so much the movies as the franchise itself, which is weird, realize that? Because I’m one of the few people who’s not a super [00:54:00] fan. I don’t dislike them, I’m just not as much of I suppose I’m judging my fandom of the movies, my like of the movies, by the people I’m surrounded with in this community, which is probably Making me feel like I’m not a fan when really I do like the movie.

It’s a big deal because it did what it did for the cars for me, how I feel about back to the future and the DeLorean. And first of all, I would like to publicly say, please stop fighting over the time machine versus no time machine. My father wanted people to enjoy their cars. That’s their car. I know that there might not be a whole lot of originals left and yes, that’s very sad.

I love cars, but he wants people to love their cars and if that’s what they want to do to love their cars, please let them love their cars, but at the very least stop fighting with each other. We love each other. Thank you. But this movie helped bring this inspiration to so many more people. So to me, I love the fact that it gets to inspire so many more lives [00:55:00] this way.

That’s what it means to me. On top of that, It’s not a crappy movie. It’s a great movie. It’s a great story. My husband, when he met my father, asked him how he invented the flux capacitor. My father tells him he fell off the toilet, goes right into the story. It’s iconic in and of itself. What a great way to remember the car, to make it iconic.

It’s just a perfect marriage of the two, but the fact that they wanted to put a Mustang in the movie. And it was Bob Gale who said it, right? Doc Brown doesn’t drive an effing Mustang. They made that into a t shirt that day. It was said, I have it, I wear it, I love it, because Doc Brown, I won’t drive a Mustang.

I love Ford people, but I will never date a man who drives a Mustang. Sorry! I am an f body girl.

Crew Chief Eric: I was gonna say you’re a GM gal through and through.

Kat DeLorean: I drive f bodies, so I hate Mustangs. [00:56:00] My proxy is just the way it works. Sorry. What I love about what Back to the Future has done for the DeLorean, and my husband and I talk about this a lot, because of Back to the Future being the type of movie that it is and the type of fan that it attracts, You have a whole different type of car owner in the DeLorean.

They’re geeks, and yes, this is another one of those things that for some reason has become a division point. Please, stop. There are car people and there’s the geeks, and that’s what’s beautiful about the DeLorean owners, is they’re a unique group. Brand of people who are brought to the car community because of this movie.

Stop looking at it as some dividing factor. These are people who are brought into understanding things about combustion engines they would have never known because they weren’t computers or robots. But because of this movie. All of these IT people now love cars, not that IT people don’t love cars, no, a lot of my friends, they love cars.

So [00:57:00] let me make sure I’m clear on that. A lot of people who own the DeLoreans, they’re a different kind of a car owner. And that’s what makes them special. And that’s what makes getting their stories special. And that’s what makes going to these car shows so much fun. Fun. They’re amazing. Sorry. I get very excited.

Crew Chief Eric: You mentioned Ireland, your dad talking about that and everything as a result of the movie coming out, kind of in lieu of talking about the Back to the Future movie. Was it a British car? Is it considered an American car? Does it have a background? Like, you know, Volkswagen’s are German and Alfa Romeo’s are Italian.

So what is the DeLorean?

Kat DeLorean: My father would be proud to tell you it’s the first Irish car, but it is an American sports car. Because it’s American car company and it was an American competitor to the Corvette, but he will tell you it is an Irish car because the Irish built it and they earned it. It’s their car.

Crew Chief Eric: Sort of like the [00:58:00] Bricklin, built in Canada. I’ll leave it there. And I know him and Malcolm were buddies too. So that’s a whole nother thing. Let’s just shift gears one more time here. So what’s next for you, Kat DeLorean? What’s the future hold outside of all these things you’ve already talked about?

What’s, what else is going on?

Kat DeLorean: I retired after 20 years of a wonderful career in technology to focus on mentorship and teaching others and helping others. I was looking for a way to give back. I had a lot of different opportunities to do so. And you all came to me with a way to make my dream come true with my dad.

So what’s next for me is. This I am going to focus on changing the world one person at a time and living my dream, which is to create this engineering program, which will embody all of the foundation and the engineering program are going to encompass and [00:59:00] champion all of the efforts that my father actually had set out.

Started and wanted in his life, which I found out after I had already started to pick them up myself. I learned from all the people that I’ve been connecting with that the things that I’ve been working on are actually things he started when he was alive. So what’s next for me is continuing my father’s legacy and living my dream.

Crew Chief Eric: Kat, any shoutouts, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Kat DeLorean: Yes, I would like everybody to check out my friend Jay Ryan’s show as well, Cars and Comedy, please. And Ben, a sponsor of all of my efforts. And somebody whose family, to me, owns Alternative Medicine Brewing in Vernon, New York.

His name is Jordan Hahn, and he makes the most fantastic brews. You have to go try them. And then, of course, come check out our website. And if [01:00:00] anybody wants to be part of the efforts, please do reach out. We are looking for people who want to offer it. Connections to local people in your area that we can work with to help create some of our programs, people who want to sponsor or start the programs in their area, and anybody who wants to just go out and perform random acts of kindness in the name of the project.

Crew Chief Eric: The DeLorean Legacy Project is dediKated to extolling the positive impact of John Z. DeLorean and his creations on this world, and those that continue to this day through his fans and owners of his carves. The DeLorean Legacy Project’s mission is to change the world. One person at a time to learn more, be sure to check out www.

deloreanlegacy. org or follow Kat on social at Kat Delorean on Instagram, at Katherine. Delorean on Facebook or at Delorean Legacy on Twitter. That said, Kat, I can’t thank you enough for coming on this first of hopefully many. [01:01:00] DeLorean episodes here on break fix. And I have to say, this is a very humbling experience to be talking with you and learning all these things about your dad and about your family.

And I do appreciate you opening the doors and letting us take a peek inside to see what that’s all about.

Kat DeLorean: I love that. So for a long time, I had this really weird relationship with my place in this community. I didn’t understand it. Everybody wanted my autograph. Everybody wanted to talk to me. They wanted to shake my hand, take pictures.

And I was like, My parents had sex and I came out. Like, what did I do? Why is this a thing that I am like so Somebody came up to me at the Corvette Museum after the Kentucky show. She said, thank you for coming to these shows. You humanize your father. You turn him into a real person. You give us stories that show us he was a real human.

That’s when I understood my place in representing him. And that’s how I was able to really embrace my place in this community. And what I can offer to all of [01:02:00] you, these stories about who he was as a person and the insight into him as a man.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and [01:03:00] GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Kat DeLorean
01:42 The DeLorean Family Legacy
02:50 John DeLorean’s Innovations
04:21 The DeLorean Name and Heritage
07:18 Growing Up DeLorean
16:55 The DeLorean Legacy Project
21:18 John DeLorean’s Continued Work
23:58 Reflections on John DeLorean’s Vision
30:53 Break/Fix Pit Stop Questions
32:11 Naming the DeLoreans
32:56 Sexiest and Ugliest Cars
34:09 The Aztek Debate
35:36 DeLorean Legacy and Racing
37:19 Building the JZD
41:57 STEM and the DeLorean Foundation
52:37 Back to the Future Impact
58:08 Kat DeLorean’s Future Plans
59:25 Final Thoughts and Shoutouts

Bonus Content

Learn More

The DeLorean Legacy Project is dediKated to extolling the positive impact John Z. DeLorean and his creations on this world, that continue to this day through the fans and owners of his cars. The DeLorean Legacy Project‘s mission is to change the world, one person at a time!

To learn more be sure to check out www.deloreanlegacy.org or @deloreanlegacy on Twitter. You can Katch up with Kat on social @katdelorean on IG, @kathryn.delorean on FB. You can learn all about new DNG Motors vehicle inspired by Angel’s design at www.dngmotors.com or follow the cars progress @dng.motors on Instagram/FB or @dngmotors on Twitter

Kat’s childhood was anything but ordinary. From a chaotic pizza party with 25 ten-year-olds to a 16th birthday bonfire that drew the local police, her stories paint a picture of a father who was hands-on, unflappable, and deeply devoted. More than just a party planner, John instilled in Kat a fearless approach to life – especially as a woman in STEM. He treated her as an equal, encouraged her curiosity, and gave her room to fail, learn, and grow.

The DeLorean Legacy Project: A Digital Museum of Inspiration

At the heart of Kat’s mission is the DeLorean Legacy Project – a digital museum that chronicles her father’s achievements, patents, and personal stories. But it’s more than a tribute; it’s a living archive of inspiration. From the Hydramatic transmission to the DMC-12, from Malibu Grand Prix to maglev trains, John DeLorean’s innovations continue to ripple through time, touching lives in unexpected ways.

Kat reveals that her father never stopped designing. After the DMC-12, he launched new ventures, developed alternative engines, and even collaborated with her on a gyroscopic kinetic engine. She’s now working to recover the patent and share more of his lesser-known creations – including a golf course design, soda pop formulas, and a revolutionary tennis racket.

Kat DeLorean & Jason Seymour — Photo courtesy Kat DeLorean

Lessons in Leadership and Letting Go

Reflecting on her own career in information security, Kat sees parallels with her father’s journey. Like John, she challenged corporate norms, advoKated for change, and learned to navigate systems rather than fight them. Her philosophy? Know your animal. Understand people’s limitations, meet them where they are, and find a way forward.

When asked about her favorite DeLorean creation, Kat doesn’t hesitate: her own 1998 Firebird WS6. It’s a nod to her father’s Pontiac days and a personal symbol of the legacy she carries forward – not just in steel and speed, but in spirit.

The following content has been brought to you by The DeLorean Legacy Project and DNG Motors, Inc

From Spray Booth to Sharpie Legend: The Jackknife Journey of Pinstripe Chris

Gran T

February 7, 2023

From Spray Booth to Sharpie Legend: The Jackknife Journey of Pinstripe Chris

What do you get when you mix Maryland grit, Ferrari finesse, and a Sharpie? You get Chris Dunlop – better known in the automotive art world as Pinstripe Chris. In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we sat down with Chris to trace his winding path from IHOP server to full-time automotive artist, and explore how a kid from Rockville became a West Coast creative force.

Chris’s story begins in the DC-Maryland-Virginia area, where he grew up wrenching on beat-up Chevy C10s and daydreaming over DuPont Registry supercars. His first real break came thanks to a family friend who ran a collision shop in Frederick, Maryland. With zero experience but a willingness to learn, Chris took a job as a painter’s helper – and that’s where the spark ignited. “I didn’t care about paint and body at first,” he admits. “But they let me play with crashed fenders and burn through paint materials at night. That freedom to experiment was huge.”

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

From Maryland to St. Louis and back again, Chris’s journey was anything but linear. He met his wife Caitlin in Frederick, reconnected via MySpace (yes, really), and eventually moved to Southern California together. Along the way, he partnered with a gruff Ferrari specialist named Robbie, learning the high-stakes economics of running a shop and the art of restoration. “I realized how expensive it is to run a shop,” Chris says. “You can care deeply about your work, but if you’re not efficient, it’s hard to make it sustainable.”

Despite getting accepted to an art school in California, Chris never attended. Instead, he credits years in the spray booth for shaping his understanding of color, lighting, and composition. His artistic evolution was fueled by trial, error, and a relentless drive to try new mediums – airbrushing, pinstriping, and eventually, Sharpie art.

Spotlight

Notes

This Break/Fix podcast explores the story behind Chris Dunlop, also known as ‘Pinstripe Chris,’ an automotive design and render artist based in Southern California. Chris shares his journey from an automotive painter specializing in custom paint and high-end restoration in Rockville, Maryland, to becoming a nearly full-time artist renowned for his Sharpie art on cars. He discusses his early inspirations, including drawing exotics and restored classics from the DuPont Registry, and his transition from Maryland to California, where he now runs his own paint and body shop. Chris dives into his artistic techniques, including airbrushing and pinstriping, and the challenges of working in the custom car industry. He also shares his views on car design trends, the differences in car culture between the East and West coasts, and his preferences for car colors and styles. Throughout the conversation, Chris emphasizes the importance of efficiency, quality, and staying true to one’s artistic vision.

We absolutely love the fact that you’re originally from the DMV, as Marylanders ourselves we’re immediately proud of your accomplishments. So let’s take a trip back in time, and talk about how you got into the automotive world. Why Paint & Body? Did you go to art school? If so, where? Or are you self-taught?
… After several years of mixing full time artwork with painting cars full time, Chris and his wife Caitlin opened up their own paint & body shop where they specialized in classic and exotic cars. Why the Sharpie Mustang and Sharpie Camaro – let’s explore the inspiration behind this. And “the why?”
What is “Robot #3”
The big move … leaving the DMV for Southern California. Car Culture on the East Coast is strong, what led to the shift west?
If you had to give advice to other (starving) aspiring artists, what would that be? Maybe some lessons learned?
You typically work in Traditional or “Analogue” media – but you’ve also made a shift into Digital Renders, why? Examples?
How long does it take to create a “photorealistic” painting of a sports car?
How does one go about getting some Pinstripe Chris artwork?
What are you working on now? Any big projects you can share/reveal to our audience?

and much, much more!

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us. Because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Passion for vehicles comes in many different shades and colors. Custom cars, hot rods, and exotics. There’s always a variety of artwork to keep things fresh and never limited to one genre. Chris Dunlop is an automotive design and render artist based out of Southern California.

He started out as an automotive painter that specialized in custom paint and high end restoration work on classics and exotics in Rockville, Maryland. From there, he began airbrushing, doing Sharpie art, and pinstriping. Soon after, he was doing his artwork [00:01:00] nearly full time, And some of you might have heard of him.

He’s been dubbed pinstripe Chris, and he joins Brad and I tonight on break fix to share his journey from paint and body work to full time artists. So welcome to break fix Chris. And

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: thank you for having

Crew Chief Eric: me, you know, like all good break fix. Episodes. There’s always an origin story. And we absolutely love the fact that you’re originally from the DMV from the DC, Maryland, Virginia area.

And as Marylanders ourselves, we are immediately proud of you and your accomplishments. So let’s take a trip back in time and talk about how you, how you got into the automotive world and why paint and body.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Always nice to be talking to some fellow Marylanders. I feel like people from the Northeast coast, we have a way that we can understand each other when we talk that maybe isn’t as a language that we have that doesn’t exist everywhere.

Appreciate me being able to talk with fellow Marylanders. You guys are going to get it.

Crew Chief Eric: We got to ask a proper Maryland question, which is all right.

Crew Chief Brad: Which question is that Eric? What high school did you go to? [00:02:00] Oh, well, it was true.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I went to Richard Montgomery. Hey, there you go. Yeah. Right down the road.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That’s where I grew up. Of course I love cars. I think everybody that really likes cars always as a kid, you always start out liking cars anyways. And you want to figure out how to do that as a work thing. And what I was doing the job right for paint and body was like, I was a server at IHOP.

It was just a normal crappy job, but I always worked on my own cars, just. So

Crew Chief Eric: I got to ask, since you loved cars as a kid, what was on your bedroom wall? What was that poster?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: The magazine that I tend to grab most when I was a kid was the DuPont registry. I always liked looking at either exotics or like really nicely restored classics.

As opposed to like the beaters that I drove my first vehicle out of high school was a 69 C 10. That I replaced with a 72 C10, none of which were in great shape, but they were good fun, but they weren’t like nice, but I enjoyed classics and wrenching on them. But anything that I had that was on my wall was pulled out of a [00:03:00] magazine and it would have been DuPont registry, something really, really fancy.

So it would have been like an F50 or an Jaguar XJ220, supercars of that era, McLaren F1, Hennessey Venom Viper. Stuff like that. Shortly after high school, a really, really close family friend, they owned and operated a collision shop in Frederick, Maryland. They happened to have a spot available as a painter’s helper.

Crew Chief Eric: What got you excited to do that? Why paint and body? Was there a draw there? Nothing.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: No, absolutely nothing. Paint and body was just sort of far out of my mind, but give that a try. It’s not something that I had thought of, but it sounded interesting. Sort of worked out and it worked as a helper for about a year there before I moved to St.

Louis. And then, uh, I was in St. Louis for a couple of years. And that’s where I started doing more full time as a painter. I was a helper in Maryland, but the owner of the shop there was super cool about letting me use crashed fenders and crashed hoods to practice like airbrushing on. They’re pretty casual about letting me burn lots of paint materials at nighttime just to play and have some fun.

Crew Chief Eric: So you went from Maryland to St. Louis and somewhere, somewhere in [00:04:00] this mix, you met your wife, Caitlin, and she’s also in this industry as well, right? Did you guys meet at work?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: It’s not exactly in the industry. She does help me as a, just stay sane in general, which is immensely helpful. When I met her, when I lived in Frederick and then we sort of went our separate way is when I moved to St.

Louis, I ended up moving back to Maryland after a couple of years in St. Louis, cause we reconnected on MySpace of all things. So we moved back to Maryland and we moved in together and then we moved here together a couple of years after that. Here in California,

Crew Chief Eric: and you opened up your own paint and body shop at some point.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah, that’s the cliff notes version. I couldn’t have done it without a partner, somebody who already had a space and was in Montgomery County and not in the air park. Thank goodness I had help with that. And he was already kind of established a little bit more in the Ferrari world. So he kind of had like the ideal job.

Guy’s name was Robbie. By the time I met him, he was already a really old guy. So he was just like sort of angry and direct, really enjoyed working with somebody that was a little bit more to the point. We had our space, this whole journey, just jackknifed all over the place. We [00:05:00] moved back from St. Louis to Maryland.

I worked at a bunch of shops before we worked on our own shop, but it was all, I was like a painter helper at a hot rod shop. And made some good friends there until I connected with this guy, Robbie. And we were working together on Ferraris and Classics there, which was great. And it was just also a great opportunity to learn that the cost of running a shop is so enormously expensive that the hopes of being able to make a lot at it, you have to scale so much or be really, really efficient.

It was a really good lesson to learn in, in what’s possible and what’s not possible, no matter how much you care about what you do.

Crew Chief Eric: So somewhere in this mix, Did you end up going to art school? Or if not, are you self taught?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I’m entirely self taught. In fact, when I lived in Frederick the first time and I was at that collision shop, I applied to go to an art school out here in California.

It was my first trip to California and I got accepted, but it was too expensive for me to go. I never actually went. So I never went to college. I never went to art school. Everything is self taught, but I really have the years of being in a spray booth, for the way that I think about colors and lighting.[00:06:00]

Crew Chief Eric: I thought it was the fact that you’re from Maryland and like the rest of us, you were probably drawing those Stussy S’s in class instead of paying attention. You know what I’m talking about? I

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: figured

Crew Chief Eric: that was everybody

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: to be

Crew Chief Brad: honest.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Seems like no matter where you go in the country, people did it everywhere.

It doesn’t matter.

Crew Chief Brad: So where did you draw your early inspiration from?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: It’s like this jackknife journey along the entire way in there. By the time that I got back to Maryland from living in St. Louis and when I was working in our own shop space, Each time somebody would come along and say, Hey, you should give airbrushing a try.

You should give pinstriping a try. So just try stuff. Just kind of muscle through learning it, which basically means screwing up a thousand times until you sort of kind of get it right. All that is just trial and error and practice. I got a lot more practice that when I lived in Maryland, but there wasn’t a huge aspect.

For stuff like that, the demand for stuff like that seems to really, really exist strongly out here. But by the time I got out here, I wasn’t doing as much of that anymore.

Crew Chief Brad: And then how did Chip Foose and Steve Stanford’s work influence you? A

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: huge way. Well, I grew up watching [00:07:00] overhauling. So my favorite part of that show, and even still, I’ll pull it up on YouTube just to watch the clips of where Foose is drawing some of my greatest memories of watching the show.

It’s just watching the artwork grow. And then Steve Stanford, I’ve seen his artwork so many times in magazines and I’ve been lucky to call Steve a friend. Steve and Chip are local here to where I’m at. So I worked with Foose on a build pretty early on when I moved here at a shop that I was working at. I try to visit Stanford every couple of months and see how he’s doing.

Both huge inspirations.

Crew Chief Eric: Chris, did you happen to catch recently when Chip sat down, I believe it was on Haggerty’s YouTube channel and he did a at his desk redesign of the C8 Corvette.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yes. Oh yeah. I’ve watched a bunch of the Haggerty stuff there.

Crew Chief Eric: So what did you think of that? Do you think that was a good interpretation, a good take on the, on the C8?

And what do you think of the C8’s design right now as one of the newest sports cars to come out in the last couple of years?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Oh man, I don’t know where your audience leans. So what I’m going to say is probably going to be a little bit controversial. My wife and I were thinking about getting one last [00:08:00] year.

So we borrowed one off of Truro to give it a really honest try. And we couldn’t wait to get out of that car. Really? Yeah. We rented it for the day, and an hour later, we called the guy back and asked if we could bring it back to him. Didn’t care about giving him his money back. No hard feelings. We just want to get the hell out of this car.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it because it’s uncomfortable? Or is it just It’s A step away from what we’re used to with Corvettes. So

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: here’s where it gets really, really tricky. As a car, everything that you can measure. It is an amazing car. It’s fast. It sounds good. You could daily drive it. So those things are amazing. It looks okay.

It’s not my favorite looking car. It looks worse. I think in orange County than most other places, because it looks like a fake Ferrari, right? So you feel a little bit goofy when you’re next to people in McLarens and Maseratis and they’re like, eh, I think I’ll put the top back up. But I think the look of the car is growing on me a little bit better.

And I think over time, the look is going to get better. It’s not a bad car. It definitely did not suit us. The [00:09:00] thing that we did to really test the car is we did the thing that nobody really does when we go and buy a sports car or any type of car like this. As we just drove down the street, down PCH, a couple beaches down to go get coffee.

Just do something routine and see what the car is like. It was the dumbest car to try to park you’ve ever seen in your life.

Crew Chief Eric: Cause you can’t see out of it, right?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: You really, really can’t see out of it. And I’m not a tall person, maybe a taller person would have better luck, but the way that the doors come up over your shoulders and we’re in a stingray, it’s convertible.

So the way the pillars are, I like the look of it sort of, but just, I parked and then my wife couldn’t get out cause the doors are freaking huge. So I had to unpark, let her out, put the car back in. And by the time we walked back to the car, grabbing coffee, we’re like,

Crew Chief Eric: So if you could redesign one aspect of the C8 other than the pillars and the visibility, what would it be from an artistic standpoint?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Interior, 100%. Really? Really stupid interior. I don’t know who crafted that thing. If you’ve sat in one, you’re in the driver’s seat. The console wraps around you, which is kind of [00:10:00] cool, but all your AC controls are on the outer edge facing away from you. Your passenger can hit all that stuff pretty easy.

I’m sure once you own one, you get used to it. It’s fine. But the interior also has this really bizarre, like layered stacked look of shapes. You think, wow, how much dirt and stuff is going to get stuck in there in no man’s land in some amount of time. I don’t think it’s gonna age that well, but I think the interior would really really help because most cars You don’t you enjoy from the inside not really from the outside If it had just a better just sitting being in it.

It looks good ish, but it was Ergonomically just not All over the map and the steering wheel, I think, is square. I think that’s just

Crew Chief Brad: the way with Corvettes in general, though. I think anything after the C2 does not age well, especially the C4 and the C5. They look like trash as soon as the next one comes out.

And I feel that way about all Corvettes.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Like a lot of cars, just give it some time and they’ll kind of cycle through. That’s kind of what we’re seeing a little bit more of C4 and C5 as nineties and early [00:11:00] 2000s stuff are starting to become a little bit more flavorful. I’m not really a big Corvette person to begin with.

It’s really hard to sell me on a Corvette. The idea of the C8 is like this huge bang for buck proposition. I think at the time we were just getting out of a brand new Cayman GTS and they were considered comparable. They’re not comparable.

Crew Chief Eric: From an artist’s point of view and a car guy through and through, what’s the sexiest car of all time?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Of all time? Man, that’d be really tricky. Naturally, I always lean towards Ferrari stuff, something like anything in the 250 series Ferrari, my Testarossa, my short wheelbase, those to me are just some of the best looking cars ever.

Crew Chief Eric: Nice. So speaking of Ferraris, and for our listeners that aren’t watching this on our Behind the scenes, Patrion episode, you have behind you a three 48 convertible.

So let’s talk about that just a second. If Ferrari, that doesn’t know what it wants to be, right. It’s got one day it’ll figure

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: it out.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. The baby at 40 layout, the five 12 TR nose and the sort of Testa Rosa rear end. Why a three [00:12:00] 48?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I’ve heard people say that you buy a 348 because you can’t afford to buy a 355, which is sort of a funny thing to say.

I actually really, really love 355s. I’ve done a lot of mechanical work in the past on Ferraris, having worked on them as part of paint and body. So I wanted something that I could work on a little bit more myself. By the time that I really got to looking for it, we said last year I sold two, I had a 911 and then I had the Cayman GTS and I sold both of them because the car prices were For stuff like that, I had just gone through the roof and I just thought I’m done paying Ferrari money for portions.

So I’m just going to go get the car that I want. And of course, I always look at three 55s as well. I actually really, really liked four 56s if you can find them in a six speed. But once I really kind of got down to a little bit more nuts and bolts research, I liked that the three 48 was kind of the odd ball.

I never liked what everyone else is going to like. I like to show up with something different and unusual. And the three 40 is definitely that to begin with as somebody like to go on really hard Canyon drives. At least once a week up in LA. So the car is no power [00:13:00] steering, no assisted brakes, no driver aids, nothing.

And even the top is manual. It’s the last flat tappet V8 that they made. It’s a really unique layout system and it is awesome. It’s also the last dog leg transmission. So it’s five speed with a dog leg. So it’s a really, really interesting driving experience and I love it. We’ve

Crew Chief Eric: kind of diverged a little bit.

We should probably get back to your timeline and talk about some of the things you’re noted for. And if our listeners are checking out your website, while we’re chit chatting here, they’ll notice that as we mentioned, you did some Sharpie art and you’re famous for both the Sharpie Mustang and the Sharpie Camaro.

So why don’t we explore the inspiration behind this? Why Sharpie? Why choose that medium?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Kind of around the time that I was experimenting a bit more with airbrushing and pinstriping, one of the guys that I worked with at a hot rod shop, I was just a prepper guy there, one of the times that I moved back to Maryland, and he had shown me this article of the Sharpie Lamborghini, and this would have been like 2010 ish.

I thought that was really, really cool, giving it to me as an idea like, hey, [00:14:00] think about stuff like this. What’s the future hold for how we do artwork? On cars and stuff like that. And I just kind of went for it. I got really, really lucky in that the first Sharpie car that I got to do, a guy flew me out here to California and Northern California to do his car.

And it was like a 94 Eldorado and nothing really, really elaborate, but it was really cool just to have the opportunity to do, and that seems like a million years ago, but since I’ve done a 23 Sharpie vehicles. All over the world. And it’s one of my absolute favorite things to do.

Crew Chief Eric: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hold, hold on a second. That Eldorado is a huge car. That’s a lot of surface area. And then you did 23 cars. Obviously the Mustang and the Camaro are the ones that are most notable on, on social and stuff, but I got to ask this question. Cause I’m sure a lot of people are thinking it, how many Sharpies. Does it take to cover an entire car?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Not as many as it would seem like. That’s of course one of the more popular questions. It really doesn’t take as many if you’re efficient and you’re kind to the materials. So at least these days, especially if you use something like paint markers, you could get around a car and probably [00:15:00] five or ten markers.

That’s

Crew Chief Eric: way cheaper than I thought it was going to be.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah. You’ll destroy the name of the marker long before you run out of ink.

Crew Chief Eric: Interesting. What do you do to make the Sharpies ink stay on the vehicle? Cause I mean, if you’ve ever used a Sharpie, yes, it’s permanent marker, but it doesn’t always bond to the surface that you put it on.

So do you have to prep the car a certain way?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah. I guess I was lucky in that my before life knew already that if you’re going to treat this type of thing as part of a paint job, prep first, do the artwork. So treat it like you would if you were doing a full paint job anyways. And that really gave me a leg up because there was a lot of people in the early times where that idea was kind of blowing up, but none of them were automotive painters.

So it was a different game of whose stuff was actually going to last. Of course, the earlier stuff that I did, it was actually Sharpie, like ink markers. They were industrial markers, but as time went on, I changed over to using the paint markers, which has a pigment and a binder. So it actually, it won’t fade as time goes on and you can clear it pretty [00:16:00] easily.

It becomes more of a paint process. It’s a lot more robust than just using ink markers.

Crew Chief Eric: So how long does it take to Sharpie a car?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Not as long as it seems, and it certainly depends on the project, but these days I can get around a whole car in a weekend. Wow. Oh

Crew Chief Eric: my God. That’s craziness. Uh, I’ll let my daughters go at mine, I guess.

See

Crew Chief Brad: how that turns out. Let them go at your black car with a black Sharpie. It’s called touch up paint. Exactly. It’ll be just fine. Well, I got a question for you. What is robot number three?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: It’s kind of a spinoff series of artwork that I do every now and then. When the mood sort of strikes, it’s one of the few things that I do that actually has a character in it.

My wife and I were big, like comic book, cartoon fan. So it’s the only way to sort of bridge some of the interests together. Get to put a little bit more of a story or a mood into a scene with a car or something else happening. What kind of comics are you a Marvel or DC fan? Not deep enough to really be one or the other.

I just enjoy the aesthetic. See, he looks at the pretty pictures, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I’m an artist. That’s all [00:17:00] I’m doing.

Crew Chief Brad: You know, there were words in them anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: Graphic novel doesn’t mean it has words in it. I’m just saying. No, it’s just, just graphic. So is there a robot number three liveried car out there? Have you done a full car?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: No, I haven’t. It would be cool to do that. The appropriate task hasn’t really come along for that. Oftentimes, like the Sharpie cars, a lot of them More in the last handful of years, or usually for like a corporate clients. So they have sort of a specific thing that they’re going for. So I can’t exactly shove exactly what I would like to do on an app.

Crew Chief Eric: Is there a bucket list car to either be a Sharpie car or maybe a robot three livery car?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I’d have to think about what car would make a good robot. Number three car, but no bucket list car. I think anytime you get to turn the surface of a car into a piece of artwork, it almost doesn’t matter. I’ve done some pretty obscure, no name cars as art cars

Crew Chief Brad: before.

And it was just as fun. I think a Volkswagen Routan is the robot three car.

Crew Chief Eric: Very

Crew Chief Brad: specific choice.

Crew Chief Eric: I know where he’s going with that. [00:18:00] So what do you think about art cars? Since you’re from Maryland, you know, there’s a big art car festival in Baltimore every year, downtown. Were there any that got your attention over the years?

And you’re like, Oh my God, what is that? Or maybe when you were younger, they inspired you in any sort of way.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: You know, honestly, I didn’t know that there was an art car thing there.

Crew Chief Eric: Darn, you missed out. Yeah,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I did, honestly. But it’s funny you say that because it reminded me when I was doing, the only Sharpie car that I had for myself was an 85 Fiero.

This was right after the, uh, Cadillac. This is a long time ago, so don’t, don’t laugh too hard.

Crew Chief Eric: Brad’s favorite car.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: It was a GT, okay. So, but I would only do the artwork at Jimmy Cone at the car meet there. If you guys have ever gone to that Jimmy Cone. The one in Mount Airy, not Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: That car meet still exists.

Our partners Yeah, I’ve heard. Yeah, our partners over at Collector Car Guide list all of their events on their websites. That’s pretty cool. Did you mention Jimmy cone? Cause we see it listed there all the time, the Baltimore art cars. I mean, you see them, some people [00:19:00] driving to work, they’re nuts. I mean, they’re done in all sorts of different styles and either painted on or glued on stuff.

I mean, some are covered in bottle caps and some look like sculptures. They’re just absolutely crazy. I mean, I used to pass a couple of going to work every day. I’m like, you’re driving. There was even one that was reminiscent of the dog mobile from like dumb and dumber. I mean, there’s just no way. crazy stuff, but I don’t think you want to go off that deep end doing your art cars, right?

It’s more liveries. It’s more adapting the style to the body lines and all that kind of stuff.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah. What they’re doing is a little bit more abstract, more, maybe less abstract. I’m not sure, but yeah, we’re definitely coming at it from different points of view.

Crew Chief Eric: So have you ever done liveries like race car liveries or anything like that?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah, actually I did a huge art installation with a guy last year where we did 20 something Porsche parts and each of them we painted to match whichever livery and whichever car was on the list. So every livery you can think of from Porsche discography, actually we just painted tons of parts last year for a car collection here locally.

Crew Chief Brad: Have you ever done anything like a mural in the garage or anything like [00:20:00] that? Yeah, I used

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: to do more of that when we first got to California. It’s not like a super common request. There’s people that, that specialize in that type of stuff. But actually I love large scale artwork. Graffiti stuff is some of my favorite.

You have to have the wall for it. Here’s really where it comes down.

Crew Chief Eric: Funny you mentioned that. I have this half wall in my garage that I’ve been saying for years. I can tell my wife it’s battleship gray. And I said, this thing is ready for some motorsports graffiti art. I just need to find somebody to do it for me.

Right?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, it’s perfect. So let’s talk about the big move and you leaving the DMV area for Southern California, the car culture on the East coast is strong, but what led you to shift West and tell us a little bit about the differences in the car culture from the two sides is massively different. I

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: knew, or at least I thought I knew when.

We were done with our shop in Maryland and we’re coming over here. I’m had this feeling like if we’re going to do something substantive at all in the car culture Might as well go where it was bigger There is a big car culture on the east coast But it has a different [00:21:00] type of thing going on and the part that sort of bugs me is how seasonal it is If I can be so picky so routinely we have people in the motorcycle in the car world there that you know you have from fall till spring to do all the necessary work that you need to to be ready for spring and summer yet everybody will wait until and so the first nice day of spring before they’re like oh my god I gotta get my motorcycle or car ready I better go get it at the paint shop it’s like we all of us sat on our hands for three months waiting for work and all of a sudden everybody wants to come out of the woodwork and get everything ready for car show season wasn’t nauseous As a lifestyle.

And if you’re trying to run a business around stuff like that, here, it never ends. There’s a car show every weekend, at least one, the biggest cars and coffee in the United States is South Orange County down the street. And it’s every single Saturday. It’s sort of never ending, but it gives you a lot of possibilities and a lot of opportunities.

I wouldn’t say like better or worse. Even the Midwest has its own car culture. What was out here or what I thought would be out here seemed like it would suit least what my interests were a little bit better. And it did not disappoint.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think if we balance those [00:22:00] scales a little bit, having traveled almost every state in the country now experiencing different car culture all over the country, the left and right coasts obviously have the highest concentration of people.

You’re right. California car culture is, I hate to say it’s more showy, right? It’s all about the car show. It’s about polishing up your ride, having something unique. How can you make it more bespoke than the next guy? I think in the East coast, though, we have our car shows too, right? We have our bag fairs and our Honda meets and, you know, going behind the dairy queen and talking about cars.

But I think the motor sport culture is much larger on the East coast because we have a higher density of tracks than the West coast. So it’s sort of like. Same, but different because if you tilt the scale the other way, California has Laguna Seca and Willow Springs and other fantastic tracks, but the density is totally different.

Like you guys have to go a lot further. So I said, there’s less race cars and more Canyon bombers, and then I’m going to go get coffee. And hopefully Jerry Seinfeld shows up, right? That kind of

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: [00:23:00] thing. It’s not that unlikely. What I really like about, especially coastal California is the kind of stuff that you see in magazines is what people daily drive here.

Yeah. It’s awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, that’s very true. You don’t see that a whole lot on the East coast. I mean, obviously New York, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, stuff with the bigger cities. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Check out that Bentley. But when you’re in Malibu,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: it’s

Crew Chief Eric: like Bentley’s like pedestrian. Whatever.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: To be honest, that’s why I ended up selling the last Porsche 911 that I had last year.

It seems like when you move to Orange County, they just give you a 911. I just thought there’s nothing. It no longer feels individualistic. It doesn’t suit me to have the same type of car as everybody else. The complex that we’re in is Porsche collectors, a Porsche dealer. Yeah. Another collection across the way.

Like everything is air cooled Porsche in here. That’s actually how we met. So there’s a huge community for air cooled here, which is awesome. But what the possibility of what you can daily drive here, my regular normal vehicles, I’m a [00:24:00] motorcycle and I have roads as my everyday cars.

Crew Chief Eric: So you can take the boy out of the East coast.

Is there anything that stays with you that you’ve tried to incorporate into the West coast car culture?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Uh, no, there’s no reason for that.

I mean, we’ve been here a little while. So I think it was more of me trying to adapt and learn what happens here. But the type of shops that I’ve gotten to do work with, I work with shops all over the country. So I think that’s a better to get a little bit of taste of everything. Cause I don’t have like a California sensibility about what cars should look like or how they should be built.

California for me is just where I live. And I love being by the beach. That’s all that’s all. As far as car styles and builds, there’s so much variety across the country. And that’s what I like with working with different people is there’s different interests and different ways to approach everything. I don’t think that you need to add a sensibility from where you’re from to make something look good.

Crew Chief Eric: So Chris being an artist is gotta be tough and an automotive artist. Probably even more so in some respects, right? Many people say, and this is true of racing [00:25:00] as well, is failures breed successes. Sure. Are there still some projects that you look back on and go, man, the juice really wasn’t worth the squeeze, or maybe there’s still something out there that you want to get around to or hashtag around to it, right?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: That’s a good question. I think there’s such a long journey kind of get to this point right now. What I’m doing is exactly what I want to do. So I don’t really think much past. Just enjoying the moment where I’m finally getting to do the stuff that I really enjoy, you know, sharing the paintings and the videos on social media.

But if it took all the stakes and the failures and the weird job opportunities to get here, I can’t be anything but grateful for all that weirdness. I haven’t worked in the custom car industry for like 10 years before I switched over to artwork. It is a pretty volatile place. I don’t think most people from the outside realize what a mess the industry really, really is.

Being a full time artist is challenging, whether you draw cars or portraits or anything. What made the change really, really easy is working in a custom car world. I never knew if I was going to get paid from week to week anyways. [00:26:00] So switching over to artwork was no change right off the cuff. You know, at least your income is totally in your control.

At that point, you do what you can, you provide the work and you put it out to the world. Whereas working for other people in shops, it was, you’re going to do the work and cross your fingers that the check is going to clear at the end of the week.

Crew Chief Brad: That actually sounds like a great segue into our next question, which is, uh, if you had to give advice.

Two other starving, I mean, aspiring artists, what would that be? Maybe some lessons you’ve learned. Have you already given us a few examples? So what are the lessons would you give?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I think true for anybody, no matter whatever type of creative thing that you’re in, even if you’re like starting out as a shop owner, realize that you can’t pay your rent.

with exposure. So don’t take it as a form of payment. It’s not a real currency, but don’t say no to opportunities that you think you can grow from. You got to know what to say yes to and what to say no to learning to say no to things is really, really, really hard when you start out with anything. Cause you want every opportunity to prove to yourself and to everybody else what you can do.

So you need to say yes to stuff, but you need to not get trapped in that [00:27:00] loop of whatever that can turn into. So learning to say no is really, really hard. Really, really, really important, but know that you can’t work for free forever. So if you start out working for free, it’s very hard to grow from that point.

Crew Chief Eric: You typically work in what people would call traditional or analog media, you know, like you’re talking about paintings and all that, but you’ve also made the shift into digital rendering. Why? What are some of those examples of some of

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: the renders you’ve done? I mean, I like a little bit of everything. So here I’ve got like a small art supply store worth of stuff.

So if I want to paint in acrylics, Or oils or color pencil or marker or ink or airbrush or digital. I’ve got everything that I need, depending on whatever that task is. I think that I need to accomplish to change over to digital. There’s still so much in the digital world that I haven’t messed with because I’m not like a 3d model or anything, everything that I do digital, I’ll still do the same way, just hand drawn.

I just use slightly better tools for, and that really came out of the need for practicality. As time went on, builders became more interested in seeing color variations, wheel variations and [00:28:00] design change ideas. So the need to do a set of renderings, as opposed to here’s a concept meant that redrawing from scratch on paper was just totally impractical.

It would be worth the expense and the time to learn how to work digitally, just so you weren’t burning paper an hour. So it’s a much more efficient way to work. I don’t love working digitally because it doesn’t feel. Real and tactile to me, but I use it for what it is. Want to create art and paintings and use paint design work for a builder.

I’ll use whatever tools are going to get them the result that they’re looking for as quickly as possible. So one of the better things about digital is I can just send them a preview shot of the file right away. And they can tell me yes, no, and what to change. And we can work really, really quickly as opposed to if I did a marker airbrush rendering and they said, let’s move these things around that starts to make that process a little bit more difficult.

So it’s really more of the sense of practicality and make my life easier. And to give the builders that I work with something efficient and practical.

Crew Chief Eric: So we’ve seen in the past, like you mentioned, 3d modeling, where people will render cars in motion and stuff like that. And they look. Yeah. So real one in particular we talked about [00:29:00] in our drive thru episode.

You remember Brad, the Volkswagen SP2 wide body RWB inspired thing. We’re like, Oh my God, this is somebody’s building. This is unreal. And you’re like, bro, this is super Photoshopped. Yeah, exactly. Are you going in that direction as well? Is that something you want to do? Absolutely

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: not.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that like the highest

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: end computing you need?

It’s not that for me, that’s just not where my interest lies. One, there’s people that specialize in it. So why reinvent the wheel if you want that work, hire artists that specialize in that type of work. I’ve got enough stuff to do, so I don’t need to sit. And learn something else additionally to make things better in that way.

To me, there’s also a practicality element that sort of misses the mark a little bit with 3d model, digital rendering stuff. And, and there’s artists that I think accomplish this better than others. Once we’ve wide bodied everything and chopped the roof off it and put Toyo AAARs on everything, what else can you do?

Like that to me, it seems like this formula for 3d renderings that is put on everything. And you go, wow, that’s really, really cool as a 3d model execution. There is zero fricking [00:30:00] chance. Someone’s going to build that. Not a chance that someone’s going to cut up a kumtosh and turn it into this zero chance.

It just, it’s like, what is the purpose of this arc? What are we doing? If it’s to sell posters, I’m cool with that. But as like a form of, are we going to make good concepts out of this? You can make some really cool over the top stuff, but in the real practical build world, if you can’t turn it into something real.

Crew Chief Eric: But on the same token, I think. Some of us would argue that chopping up the real thing and trying to do it is worse, right? Taking a Kuntosh that there are very limited numbers of to begin with and bastardizing it for lack of a better term. I’d rather see it done digitally. There’s minuses to that, right?

Yeah.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah. Yeah. It can’t be all one way. You’re totally, totally right. If there’s a way to look at these concepts, you’d rather look at them in this way. I just think right now there’s a style to all of them. This is actually sort of my problem with realism and art in general. When they all look the same, it no longer has that artist identity to it.

It just has a look.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re right. And the other thing that I think would be cool as [00:31:00] a side effect of this, obviously what you’re doing with rendering is mock ups towards building the real thing, you know, setting that stage. Working with your client, all that, but with these digital 3d renders, I go back to the days.

And now I’m going to date myself of like need for speed underground, where you had this almost limitless customization and you can build these, you know, stance, bro cars and Kind of stuff. And then you could go out and race your buddies. Yeah. That’s for me is the cool part when you put it in a SIM, but it’s like, how do you get the rendering that these guys built into those platforms where you could actually enjoy it?

Because your point, you’re just looking at a picture, right?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: And I don’t mean to discount the amount of work that goes into doing this thing. I follow a number of these artists as well. And it is. Absolutely amazing work. More on the marketing side of me. Are we after entertainment here? Are we trying to inspire, build ideas?

I just want to understand what the purpose is. If someone says, Hey, this is just for entertainment. I can just clear the rest of the stuff out of my head and not worry about it. And I like that. There’s in the same boat. There’s plenty I do. That’s just meant for entertainment. That doesn’t land in the [00:32:00] practical.

So it’s certainly not up to me to preach it to people and say, ah, this, we need to figure a way to be practic that’s sort of misses the mark. I like the idea of this type of stuff as an art form. I just hope that it evolves past this formulaic look that it has right now.

Crew Chief Brad: You mentioned some competitors.

Who are the competitors you have in your space? Competitors?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I guess, what do you mean by competitors?

Crew Chief Brad: Well,

Crew Chief Eric: I guess we’re always thinking about it in motorsports. Everybody’s a competitor. Everybody’s a rival. Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: we’ve all got a competitive nature. We’ve all got people that we want to be better than.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I see what you’re saying.

I really don’t look at anything as competitors. Not from the point of view of I’m better than anybody else. I look to a lot of other people for inspiration. There’s a lot of stuff that I really, really like seeing. You. a very, uh, East coast thing. I think to think things more competitively, it’s taken me years to remove that part out of my personality.

So I try not to be competitive about stuff like this. Cause I’ll be up all night working on paintings.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ll ask it in a proper West coast way then, which is who are the artists that [00:33:00] you look up to and that you are inspired by?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Well, no, yeah, it’s definitely a better way to put it way more copacetic. I don’t know.

I’m happy to do what I’m doing and I hope that I get better at it. A lot of the artists that I follow that I really, really like aren’t even automotive artists. They’re more like portrait artists or landscape artists or oil painters. And a lot of these people, I just know they’re like Instagram handles.

So I actually don’t even know their real name, but for anybody curious, the type of stuff that I’d be interested in, that’s a lot of what I look at. It’s like portrait art and landscape art. I don’t look at a lot of other automotive artists. I love seeing other people’s artwork. I can’t not look at something and not like be sort of inspired by it.

So I try to limit my intake of stuff like that, so that I can kind of keep myself in my own lane, if that makes any sense.

Crew Chief Eric: After all this time that you’ve been doing this, Are you still self taught or have you gone back and gotten training or worked with other artists?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Oh, I’m still very much self taught.

Never got a chance to take any classes. I’ve started teaching classes actually. And they’re kind of a cool thing about social media is [00:34:00] that artists can kind of share information together. So, you know, like I said, other portrait artists or cartoon artists that I follow might mention materials that they’re using, or even Steve Stanford when I’ve gotten time to talk with him, they might point out some materials that he tried just so I can go and point me in the right direction for some materials to try.

So that’s kind of the. Blessing of social media is a lot more information you’ve shared openly amongst artists, which is really, really cool, but I still haven’t gotten any formal training. Maybe one day.

Crew Chief Brad: Are there any of those artists that you would love to collaborate with that you haven’t collaborated with already?

Like not necessarily in the automotive. You know, sector, but more the, I guess the cartoon and comic graphic novels sector that you would like to collaborate with in some form or fashion.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I think it would be a really, really fun idea. Uh, I always like the idea of artwork. That’s going to kind of take me out of what I’m doing now and go to the next thing.

I kind of go in and out of phases of artwork pretty quickly. So I like the idea of whatever’s coming next to be a big sort of change in the normal. Something like that would be really, really cool. I actually haven’t done a lot of artistic collaborations. That’d be a lot of fun. When I like to go through our work [00:35:00] really, really quickly, so other people can complicate

Crew Chief Brad: the process.

You do a lot of projects for other people, a lot of work like that, but are there some projects that you’re doing just for you? Most of what you see on social

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: media,

Crew Chief Brad: I’m doing

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: just for me,

Crew Chief Eric: which we’re going to get into here in a second. And

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: so that would be, yeah, that would be like a paintings. Most of the stuff that I’m sharing more prominently to be perfectly honest, the build rendering, the design work, that stuff that I rarely post or share on social media.

So some of that stuff’s top

Crew Chief Eric: secret, right? It’s pretty obvious. for clients. Some

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: of it’s secret, but the real truth to it is I don’t need more to do than I already have. So I don’t want to advertise. I don’t want people to ask me to do something that I’m just going to say no to. I have some great people that I work with already.

There’s always space to say yes to some really interesting projects. From practice, the stuff that you put out there is what people are going to ask you for. So I put less of it out there and put more artwork out there.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s kind of this expression in Italian that I know and in English, it translates to the artist’s hand.

There’s a certain just patience that you guys have this tendency. There’s [00:36:00] these strokes, you know, of the pen or the, or the brush or whatever, that a lot of people cannot mimic. They cannot imitate, right? And that’s what makes, You know, people, artists and makes them masters and whatever. So I’ve watched you and your videos on social media and they’re captivating,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: but they’re

Crew Chief Eric: the new form of art that’s come up, especially in the automotive sector of artistry, that’s this photo realistic.

Art, and I know it’s been around for a while. People did it, you know, in dots way back when, or, you know, all this kind of stuff and whatever, but nowadays it’s just gotten to the point where you can almost not tell the difference between the canvas and the photo and the real car. And so I wonder, and I’ve seen the technique you use, and I’ve seen the technique that like Mano uses and some other people and whatnot, boil it down for us.

How long does it take? It seems super involved, lots of layering, all this kind of stuff. Why photorealistic art?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: That’s actually a really great and funny question. To be perfectly honest, I’m not a huge fan of photorealistic art because I’m somebody that really likes comic books and cartoons and animation.

[00:37:00] I like a stylized existence. I already live in the real world. So the idea of creating art that just replicates it is pretty boring to me. So the only way that I could create pieces that were, this is like a few part answer, but when I do stylized pieces, a lot of the feedback that I get comes down to the way that I’ve stylized.

If you make a wheel out around, you’ve ruined the whole thing. So stylizing becomes this really delicate balance with cars. What can you get away with? What can you not? And I enjoy doing that push and pull. And I keep trying and just kind of seeing where it goes. At the end of the day, some basis of realism gives you a core strength for what the viewer is looking at.

The only way that I’ve found to kind of do my own thing within realism I don’t really don’t consider what I do realism compared to a whole lot of other artists. It might be like, uh, legible and believable, but I don’t think it has like this really high level in that way, but I do all my own lighting and color contour in all my art.

So I don’t use photo references for any of the lighting that I do. I make it all [00:38:00] up. So that for me is the way that I can create an individual style or look in all of the pieces that I do. Cause there’s no photo of any of the paintings I’ve ever done.

Crew Chief Eric: But you are starting from a base drawing the way at least I’ve seen it.

You’re doing that in like pen and ink, and then it’s kind of cool. Actually, you take a solid color. Like the Camaro video is an example. You did like a early seventies Camaro, right? Like the bumblebee exactly. And you just. Layered on this thick looking tempera paint on top of it, it looked like from the video and then started to peel the car out of this thick paint and then from there begin to add layer after layer after layer and then suddenly I’m like, holy smokes, you know, obviously that’s all, you know, fast forwarded in time, right?

Yeah, to some degree. Yeah. So how long does it take to put something like that together? And how do you see the vision? Why do you choose the cars that you choose when you do it?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: So there’s a practicality aspect. There’s a lot of things that actually I’m kind of thankful that it took away from working in the automotive [00:39:00] industry, both the collision, the custom car industry, and that’s efficiency.

To me, being able to work really, really fast. is everything. So most of the paintings that you see, I’ll do a la prima. It’s just one sitting. So an afternoon, an evening, so figure four to eight hours, something like that, depending on the size and complexity of the piece. So I jam through stuff pretty quick.

Cause I have an idea of where I want to go with each piece. And if you’re familiar with your own process, there’s less guesswork. And also because I’m not relying on a photo reference, I’m not comparing against anything else. It saves an enormous amount of time to go. This is the direction that I’m going to go.

And I’m going to stick with it versus compare, compare, compare, compare. That’s incredibly slow. So the way that I work just allows me to be. Pretty direct. There’s still a lot of guesswork and there’s a lot of back and forth. And then the way that I like to layer a lot of this stuff you’ll see is acrylic.

I’ll paint in oil as well. And that’s way more direct. But if you think about acrylic paint, same effect as if you’re spraying a car, if you were going to blend a yellow panel. And you’re going over primer, you’d either want to seal it a lighter gray or a [00:40:00] white. You wouldn’t want to seal it some other color.

And if you’re going to shoot a three stage in orange, you’re either going to shoot that over a white or a tinted yellow. Your under colors will affect every other color afterwards, just like it does on a car. So if you think about what color has Maximum opacity. So that yellow car, for example, that bumblebee Camaro, half of it ended being black at the end of the pain.

If I’d have based it black, that yellow would have never popped because it would take an inch of yellow over black to get that opacity instead. Start with a white ground, put some yellow over it. That’s going to give you the most vibrancy. There’s a GTO that I painted recently where I did something similar based, uh, yellow over white.

The yellow was dry. Red over the yellow. And a lot of people asked why because there’s no yellow left in the painting. Yellow is the undercolor for the red so the red could have more vibrancy in one coat. So there’s a huge practicality element to all this.

Crew Chief Eric: But then there’s all those other little details too that when you look at it, just like the headlights alone, it’s like, Oh, it has this little reflection.

I mean, where does that come from? Is that [00:41:00] just imagination or? Yep.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yep. The only thing I’ll use reference for is line work. I don’t want to be stuck to anything because I’m going to move around the lighting the way that I want. And after having done a billion paintings and drawings, you kind of go, well, this is what a headlight looks like.

This is what a taillight looks like. This is what lighting looks like over top of this curve when it’s red or blue or green. There’s a lot that you can learn to do intuitively. There’s certain types of headlight and taillight styles where you can go, yep, I better look at a photo to make sure. But I’m getting the ball where the light glow in the right place or the HID projectors, the right shape and in the right place, you know, as long as you’ve got a good basis for line work, the way that you fill that in should just be based on how you’re casting light.

And because I’m not using a reference for that, I’m just doing it all one time. I’m not thinking that many steps ahead. I’m just kind of going, I’m going to shoot. All the colors on this whole thing. And then as I get towards the end, I’ll tighten up the headlights. We’ll tighten up the tail light. So the phrase is loose to tight, do all the big areas, do all the messy stuff.

And then as it comes together, work on the details, because there’s no sense in working on details until you know that you’ve got all this big stuff, right? If something goes [00:42:00] wrong in the details and you have to start over, you’ve wasted all the time. So I always save all that detail stuff for the end.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, even in let’s say grade school and high school art classes, they teach you right up front about perspective and things like that, but it’s always in reference to, Oh, I’m drawing a house on like a farmhouse or something like that. And it’s always something like simple objects. I’ve always found cars to be the most difficult things to draw properly because it’s a 3d object on a 2d surface.

Right. And I get it. Houses are 3d objects too, but they’re square. There’s so many curves. Yeah, there’s, there’s so many curves and angles and just all these things to a car sometimes are even more complicated than drawing a human, right? The human face, you can lay out the ovals and all the circles and kind of get it going and you build around that.

But car is so multifaceted. What do you do to get started to get it right? To build that Camaro in the pen and ink part. So it doesn’t come out. The front looks right in the back end is, you know, squeezed like the Oscar Mayer Wiener or something.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Fundamentals to being able to draw is really, really important.

And [00:43:00] not every drawing is going to happen on the first try. This is good for any artist to know it. It might take a half a dozen sketches or overlays before you kind of go, all right, I’m finally starting to make it make sense. But I start out with a pretty rudimentary way, you know, I’ll just draw a box in an angle that I think that I want to, the vehicle or the section to be in just a box, just something really, really simple.

And just start to break the box into pieces. You know, this is the windshield line. This is the fender arc. And these are all guest lines. I don’t know if I’m going to get them right, but I need reference. points. I need to guess. So whether the guess is right or wrong, I can decide, you know, should I move that line?

Should I, should I keep scooting around? Just the art of drawing is something all in its own. And I certainly still make plenty of mistakes. Drawing an obscure perspectives is difficult enough. I don’t like drawing normal angles of things. It’s pretty boring. So I always want to have an extra flavor, but having a unique take on perspective can add something so much extra to what you’re looking at.

You know, to be able to look at something from a view that people don’t see where there’s no photo of, it’s kind of a cool opportunity to [00:44:00] set the bar kind of high. You kind of go, man, I really need to get these details in the right place. So I might have to look at three different pictures of angles to compare details against, to place things before I get it right.

Crew Chief Eric: Then it becomes inception where we take a picture of your photorealistic picture that has no picture. And then it has a picture. Yeah, it’s a journey. It’s a journey. What was the hardest project you worked on? What was the toughest thing to draw or to put it all together finally? And you went, all right, I’m glad that’s over with.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I mean, there’s always stuff that comes along. It’s pretty challenging. To be honest, I don’t do a lot of commissions and a lot of request stuff. Most of what I do is just kind of from the hip, you know, whatever I’m inspired to that day or, or however that works out, just because I don’t like the limitations of what other people’s ideas and perspectives are.

I just kind of want to do my own thing and hope that people enjoy that. I do do requests on occasion. It’s rare to agree to something that I think is going to work me to

Crew Chief Brad: death

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: from experience to try to say no better and kinder.

Crew Chief Brad: Chris, since you’re an artist, we would be remiss if we didn’t ask you [00:45:00] some of our very specific Pit Stop questions.

We’ve already asked two of them, the poster on the wall and then the sexiest car of all time. What would you have in your three car garage? Three cars. That’s all you get. Money is no

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: object. Money is no object. I probably still play pretty safe, man. Well, I definitely have to have a Ferrari 250 short wheel base.

Probably a Ferrari F50. And I have to pick some kind of Porsche to have in there. Maybe like an early 70s RS. Something air cooled for sure. Yeah, I’m pretty easy. I don’t need to spend a bazillion dollars on cars.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s take the inverse of that. The ugliest car of all time. And is there such a thing to an artist?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Oh yeah, because I’m not classically trained. I don’t have to pretend to be poetic about every single thing that’s made. I don’t have to come up with these lies about, oh, these key lines are from BMW. Everything they make right now. Freaking awful. Every single time.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, that’s awesome. Is it because they’ve exaggerated the kidney grills?

It’s just gotten out of [00:46:00] control? Or is it something else? I couldn’t

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: place one thing that would be like, I don’t know. The whole thing is just a how, how did we arrive here? A company that makes such good cars, even aesthetically, they’re very German, they’re very utilitarian, but they’ve started to lean this Let’s try to be a little bit Lamborghini and it just misses the mark.

It’s so dumb. It doesn’t mean the cars don’t perform great in most of these cars, you know. Well, I guess say maybe like the M2 definitely is a good looking car, but the M4, I don’t know, there’s something about the way that they’re going with their design. You’re just like, I don’t know where you guys are going.

I actually, I think if there’s a lot of contemporary stuff, that’s pretty hard on the eyes, you know, the electric EV Hummer. Not really sure where that’s coming from. If we’re all just going to like draw ideas with rulers and stuff, then people don’t need my help.

Crew Chief Eric: And a lot of these new cars are rendered.

They’re not drawn by hand anymore. I mean, I’m, I’m assuming here, but I mean, a lot of it is done in CAD. Tires are designed in CAD. A lot of things are done in CAD, 3D printed and otherwise.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: It’s true. That’s where a company like BMW is really, really confusing. They have a [00:47:00] really, really artistic take on why they do the things.

They still clay model. So does, uh, so does plastic. Porsche, but you get a very different sense of how Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW handle their audience and their target cars and, and who they’re trying to sell to. Same with Lamborghini. I mean, how many lines and slats and vents can you put on the same car over and over and over and over again?

Enough? No idea. Never

Crew Chief Eric: enough.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah. You know, maybe it’s just ’cause that See ’em all the time. It seems like if you’re a full-time YouTuber, you own a McLaren. And to me, they’re really not that interesting to look at.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s true. And they all kind of look the same. They’re hard to tell apart, but you brought up something interesting about BMW.

I think there’s certain brands that are iconic for certain features like the kidney grills. BMW is associated with that. BMW is, I think we all look back to the era of square bodies and round headlights, much like there’s a big craze of the pop up headlights, just like your 348 Ferrari there. Is there something in your take that is that iconic thing that you love about a car?

Maybe it’s the pop up headlight. Maybe it’s the Porsche whale tail or something. [00:48:00] Is there something that just, it’s that one facet that sticks out to you that maybe every car should have? That’s something that you really love.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Maybe not on the nose in that way. I think each manufacturer, Or at least in some of the higher end models have done a really good job of keeping the heritage with where they’re headed.

The one thing that I can say about designs that I think are just a little bit sideways, like some of this BMW stuff is silver lining is you can only go up from here and you can only bring back the classic look and people will be stoked. Kind of like when Porsche went from the 996 to the 997 return back to round headlights, as opposed to the Friday, kind of giving the people what they want.

It’s sort of misled 996 is a great car, but if you go too far, you can return to Coke classic and people will be stoked.

Crew Chief Brad: We’re in an era right now where all cars are starting to look the same and it’s in the technologically and for the best aerodynamics for the most fuel efficient vehicles or whatever, but in your opinion, what is the best?

Best decade for the best looking cars before the accountants and the bean counters [00:49:00] got in and ruined the industry.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the bangle BMWs. That’s what he likes.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: That’s a good question. I think most people are going to probably. Think about cars the same way they think about music, whatever influenced them most as a kid is probably where they would go.

And I would have never really guessed that mid to late nineties would be where I find a happy spot with design because we’re still like OBD one, tipping into OBD two cars, regulations are changing a little bit. There’s still some freedom of design. They might not be the best cars overall, but that’s how you end up with something like the E36 BMWs and threes that are just, you know, Become like this kind of great timeless classic, you know, the three, five, five Ferraris, uh, Porsche going from nine, nine, three to nine, nine, six to nine, nine, seven.

The early 2000s stuff is really, really cool too. But I think there’s so much design in there that also went too far, like for tourists, you know, once they turn all the headlights into these weird round shapes. Things went a little bit strange. So there’s good moments, I think, in every decade. Lately, something [00:50:00] about the 90s feels pretty comfortable because we’ll never get flip up headlights again.

We’ll never get non airbag steering wheels again. Cars at least have some shape to them, but they also don’t have to be purposeful. There doesn’t have to be a reason other than it looked good, and I like that. I mean, further back, everything just about from the late fifties and early sixties, you just couldn’t ask for a better era of just, let’s just make it look cool.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, that brings up a really good point, which is a couple of years ago, we did a sub series of articles called retro relativity, and it was all about the resurgence of the retro cars, right? Bringing back the mini, the Fiat 500, the beetle, the challenger, right? And so I have to ask you the question, who wore it best?

Which one of the retro reintroductions is your favorite?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I guess favorite is going to be kind of a tricky one. I know which one is absolutely my least favorite. Well,

Crew Chief Eric: let’s let’s go with that.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Anything that Dodge does. as a rebrand is awful. The Dart, the Challenger, Charger, whatever. Whenever you use your old badge [00:51:00] to sell a new trick,

Crew Chief Eric: you know,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: even Ford, their Mach E with their Mustang right now could have happily been called a Mach E.

It didn’t really need to be called a Mustang. Hey, I’m not the marketing department. So what do you know? But yeah, I’m not really a fan of how Dodge does their new classics. They’re not my favorite, I should say. Um, especially something like the Dart. You just kind of go, you used a really cool, like, identity, and you just stuck it on the little car, you know?

Yeah, it just sort of misses the mark for us. Because they

Crew Chief Eric: didn’t want to call it a Neon, but you know, hey, whatever.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Honestly, it would have been cooler if they called it a neon. It would have been a little bit more honest, but I do got to give it to Chrysler. They’re like the last American brand that really knows what Americans want as far as like a minivan with 700 horsepower, because that’s what, yeah, that’s just what they do.

I was actually going to say, strange as it might seem, the new beetle, like that design, actually I think really worked well as far as like the new classic look to bringing something back. Strangely enough, you still kind of see him on the road and you go, yeah, it looks like a beetle.

Crew Chief Eric: The retro hasn’t stopped, right?

That’s true. [00:52:00] I’m sure you’re aware of the most recent re release. Let’s talk about the Alpha five by DeLorean. Oh, that’s not where

Crew Chief Brad: I thought you were going. Oh, where? Where did you think I was going? Where did you

Crew Chief Eric: think I was going?

Crew Chief Brad: I thought exactly. I thought you were doing Kosh. Oh, we can do

Crew Chief Eric: Kosh. We can do Kosh,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I think we can all agree both of those examples are pretty awful. Oh no. I’m in love with the new Kosh. Yeah, I don’t think so. I

Crew Chief Eric: love it. I’m with you, Chris. It feels like an upgraded Aventador. It’s it’s

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: just too, it’s a little too body kitty for me. It’s just a little bit like we put this body on an existing platform.

It’s, you know, it’s easy for me to be cynical. You guys know I’m a Maryland guy. That’s just the flavor of conversation. It’s not the worst thing that I’ve ever seen. Um, especially compared to, let’s say the DeLorean, the Kutosh thing is just kind of like Lamborghini has this habit of doing these kind of special models that you have no idea who they’re for.

I’m like, who’s buying these? Where are these going? Who’s signing up to get one of these? I mean, I have some really strange

Crew Chief Eric: allocations. I mean, Bugatti does the same thing. Look at the Devo. They made like 40 [00:53:00] of them. You’re like,

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: yeah, there, there’s definitely some weird stuff in there, but I think Bugatti, you can say they have way more years of heritage to back them up, but Bugatti and then some higher tier McLaren’s and then Pagani’s on the, and Koenigsegg, these are just like way higher tier cars all the way up in the spectrum, Lamborghini in that world still feels great.

Very mid spectrum feels very sub Ferrari to me, but I don’t care.

Crew Chief Eric: So you partnered the Kutosh and the DeLorean together. What is it that turned you off about the new DeLorean’s reveal? I’m just curious.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Man, people are just going to hate me because I’m so cynical about aesthetics and the way cars look.

And it’s not like my opinion is worth anything. It’s just an opinion, but if you ever follow me on social media, you’ll know. I never share opinions about this stuff. Cause I just sparing myself a headache. But, uh, uh, Welcome to

Crew Chief Eric: break fix Chris.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yes, yes. I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s all fair game

Crew Chief Eric: here.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: We’re making awful automotive journals. I’m the owner of a 348 Spyder, so I’ve, it’s fair game, you know, so I get it. From my point [00:54:00] of view, it takes something like the DeLorean that already doesn’t look good. Different time period that I was born and raised. I had no nostalgia for the DeLorean to begin with.

So I have no want to see a reborn version, let alone the fact that you’re going to revamp something that seems like a pretty far departure from what the original idea, DeLorean is only one thing. There’s only one DeLorean ever. So if you’re going to rebrand and make something new. You really only have one vehicle to reference.

How can you mess that up so bad?

Crew Chief Eric: I’m with you there. And my sister said the same thing when we reviewed it on the drive thru episode twice, my departure from it, because I was super excited about it. I’m like some of the angles and the teasers. I’m like, Oh my God. There’s other perspectives that it does look really good.

That the front end is actually

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: details.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, there’s that front end has some really cool features to it. Brad says it looks kind of like a lucid air. I’m like, I get that. I see that. What killed me were those doors. Yes, I get that the gull wing is iconic, but it’s a four [00:55:00] seater gull wing, which means if you look at the doors, they go from fender arch to fender arch and they’re just enormous.

And it drives me nuts, drives me nuts. I think we got some other questions to ask you, right, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. So what is the best color combination for a vehicle? Black, red, tan, black, reds and blacks. Are there

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: some red or yellow to me that that’s it. But I like loud colors.

Crew Chief Brad: Are there some cars that only look good in one color, like red Ferraris or yellow Corvettes?

Well, nobody likes Corvettes. So

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: actually a yellow Corvette makes a way better argument to me. I’m like one of the three people that actually likes yellow cars. Once it’s yellow, I’m like, all right, let me hear you out because the car listing says yellow. I better check this out. Cause you never know color is a personality trait.

Her vehicle, it can say a lot, whether it’s over the top or not enough, or in such a boring time for colors right now, there’s only a couple of manufacturers that are still sort of eccentric with color ideas and that that’s really the personality behind the way a car looks. You can really [00:56:00] kill something by painting it the wrong color.

Same with a custom build. You really do have to be picky about it and you should be because color and wheels and stance. These are just basic identity traits. of any car. So to do it wrong can throw the whole formula off.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re right about that, Chris. But there’s one car that has been said over and over again.

It looks good in every color and that’s the 9 11, especially a classic eighties, 9 11 wide body. You know, that 9 30 turbo look, is there a wrong color for a 9 11?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Maybe not. I’ve had a few and I’ve enjoyed them in a few different colors and I see them every day. I think I’ve ever seen one where I was like, Why did they choose that color?

There’s better yellows than not. And there’s better silvers than not. But it is kind of this timeless shape that the light looks, you know, rolls over it almost the same way with any color. So they do look good in pretty much any color. That is true. Probably shoot any color on and be pretty happy

Crew Chief Brad: about that.

Wagon, sedan, convertible, or coupe? I think we know which way you’re leaning because of what’s behind you, but we’re going to ask the question anyway.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Got a motorcycle, a roadster, and a convertible. So I like as much sunshine and [00:57:00] air as possible, but it depends so much on the car. Even something like the 348 the difference between the Berlinetta, Spyder is actually really big aesthetically.

So it depends on how the manufacturer approached each design, because there’s aspects like I thought, I feel like the three 48 spider looks better than the Burley Netta or feel like the three five five Burley Netta looks better than the three five five spider. It’s just the way that they handle the lines for each car is just different enough.

These days when I’m in a car with, with a roof, I feel very claustrophobic.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, Chris, this is one of my favorites. It tells me a lot about who you are as a petrol head. You’re the last one in the design room, your vote. is what swings this. It settles the debate between the Porsche 959 and the Ferrari F40.

Which do you choose? Man, that’s really interesting.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah, I think naturally I’m just going to go F40, but note that I did have to pause and think about it. You know, it wasn’t instant because the F40 is not my favorite flagship car of Ferrari, but I do quite like the 959. But you just, it’s hard to beat something as timeless as an [00:58:00] F40.

Crew Chief Brad: I think, I think you said the F50 and your three garage notes. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Someone who finally agrees with me. It’s just you and me. Nobody else likes it. No. If that was the truth, then the prices would come down, but

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Oh yeah, I was about to say, they aren’t getting any cheaper actually, so maybe I’m wrong.

Crew Chief Eric: Chris, kind of switching gears, how does one go about getting some of your artwork?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: I post new stuff every week on Instagram, and usually the new stuff is also listed on the website at the same time, uh, artofchristianlop. com, and Pinstripe underscore Chris on Instagram, showing new videos as regularly as possible, new artwork.

And that’s usually the best way to get ahold of me, either contacting me through the website or straight through Instagram. I’m still one of those weird people that tries to respond to every message and every comment that I can.

Crew Chief Eric: Thank you for responding to us. Yeah, I think that’s how we got connected.

Yeah. Sometimes you do commissions. It’s very rare. I do that, but you will entertain [00:59:00] ideas, but you start with me. I’ll always hear

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: somebody out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I, it’s just simpler that way. If. There’s not enough time in the day to say yes to everybody. I would like to, but for the time and the expanse, I want to make sure that artwork is going in the hands of people that are like, I realize they’re just paintings of cars, but for some people, this is like, is it part of their family?

Or it’s a really an important part of them. Or it’s an aspiration car. And it’s not always easy to find those types of people that are interested in artwork. But to me, there’s not one type of car person. I think there’s a lot of like passive people that enjoy cars, but there are some really diehard car people.

And I just really want to make sure that I’m putting the effort in. It’s for the people that are really serious about it.

Crew Chief Eric: I guess my request then is out the window. Cause I was thinking, you know, you make this photo realistic art. Why don’t we make a car look like it’s canvas and go the other way and texturize it, right?

That kind of thing. Very

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: interesting idea. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Interesting ideas. What are you working on now? Any big projects or anything you can share or reveal for our audience, things that they should be looking forward [01:00:00] to.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Yeah, anything that I’m working on design wise is either all completely related to SEMA, so I don’t even get to really share much about that stuff that’s really up to the builders to do the unveil on those things.

But the way that I work through the paintings and artwork here, I’m always working on something new, so I don’t even think that many steps ahead, I You know, wake up tomorrow and I paint that day and that’s what I’m working on. So it’s hard for me to look down the road beyond that, really, tomorrow’s painting, whatever that is.

Crew Chief Eric: So in closing, any shout outs, promotions or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover thus far?

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Not a single one. No, I’m just kidding. I don’t have any sponsors, so, uh, except Raid Shadow Legends. They’re the greatest. YouTube. Really, really want to get into Ray Shadow Legends. Maybe one day they’ll sponsor me, but we’ll see.

GTM will sponsor you for 50 bucks.

Crew Chief Brad: Chris’s automobile was conceived like all true art to share a passion. His art includes exclusive works, including prints and originals themed in the automotive and motorsports world. And he offers pieces that [01:01:00] will fit virtually any home office, dorm, garage, or museum. And to learn more about Chris and his artwork, be sure to log on to www dot art of Chris Dunlop.

com or follow Chris on social at pinstripe underscore Chris on Instagram and add pinstripe Chris on Facebook.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, Brad and Chris. We can’t thank you enough for coming on break fix and exposing our audience to yet another corner of the vehicle enthusiast and motor sport world, the main. An artist, right?

I mean, who’d have thunk it? We talk about all sorts of stuff on this show. So we really do appreciate you, a fellow former Marylander coming on here and talking to us about cars and about art.

Pinstripe Chris Dunlop: Thank you guys so much for having me and weathering all my cynical responses towards car design. I appreciate that.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re in good company, Chris.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on [01:02:00] Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and remember without [01:03:00] fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:39 Meet Chris Dunlop: From Painter to Artist
01:34 Chris’s Early Life and Career Beginnings
03:11 Journey to Full-Time Artist
13:23 The Sharpie Art Phenomenon
16:28 Exploring Robot Number Three
20:28 Car Culture: East Coast vs. West Coast
27:11 Digital vs. Traditional Art
31:56 Art as Entertainment vs. Practicality
32:13 Competitors and Inspirations
33:43 Self-Taught Journey and Social Media Influence
34:23 Artistic Collaborations and Personal Projects
36:09 Photorealistic Art and Techniques
42:05 Drawing Cars: Challenges and Techniques
44:56 Favorite and Least Favorite Car Designs
50:23 Retro Car Designs: Hits and Misses
58:23 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

To learn more about Chris and his artwork, be sure to logon to www.ArtofChrisDunlop.com today or follow Chris on social @pinstripe_chris on Instagram, @pinstripechris on FB

Inspired by the infamous Sharpie Lamborghini, Chris dove headfirst into the world of marker-based car art. His first commission was a Cadillac Eldorado, and from there, the legend grew. To date, he’s completed 23 Sharpie cars around the world, including the viral Mustang and Camaro builds. “It doesn’t take as many markers as people think,” he laughs. “Five to ten if you’re efficient. And I treat it like a paint job = prep first, then clear coat.”

Robot Number Three and Comic Book Vibes

Chris’s creative universe isn’t limited to cars. He’s also developed a character-driven art series called Robot Number Three, blending his love of comics and cartoons with automotive scenes. While no car has yet donned a full Robot Number Three livery, Chris says he’s open to the idea.

Corvette Controversy and Ferrari Love

When asked about the C8 Corvette, Chris doesn’t hold back. Despite its performance credentials, he found it ergonomically frustrating and visually awkward – especially in Orange County, where it risks looking like a “fake Ferrari.”

“If I could redesign one thing, it’d be the interior,” he says. “It’s just bizarre. I don’t think it’s going to age well.” Instead, Chris leans toward oddball Ferraris like the 348 convertible he owns—a car with no power steering, no driver aids, and a dogleg transmission. “It’s the last flat-tappet V8 Ferrari made. It’s raw, and I love it.”

East Coast Roots, West Coast Reach

Though he’s now based in Southern California, Chris hasn’t forgotten his Maryland roots. He fondly recalls sketching at Jimmy Cone car meets and wishes he’d known about Baltimore’s art car scene back then. Still, he sees California as the ideal canvas for his work. “Out here, the stuff you see in magazines is what people daily drive,” he says. “It’s not better or worse than the East Coast – it’s just different. More show, less motorsport.”

Chris’s journey is a testament to the power of persistence, curiosity, and creative risk-taking. From failed projects to corporate commissions, he’s learned that the juice is only worth the squeeze if you’re doing what you love. “I don’t think you need to add a sensibility from where you’re from to make something look good,” he reflects. “What I’m doing now is exactly what I want to do.”

Want to see Chris’s work up close? Check out his portfolio at www.pinstripechris.com and follow his latest builds on social media. And if you’re ever in Orange County, keep an eye out – he might just be Sharpie-ing a Porsche part at your local cars and coffee.

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Fuel, Fiction, and the Fast Lane: The JK Kelly Story

Gran T

January 24, 2023

Fuel, Fiction, and the Fast Lane: The JK Kelly Story

What do funeral homes, drag racing hearses, and bestselling thrillers have in common? If you’re JK Kelly, the answer is: everything.

In this episode of the Break/Fix podcast, we sat down with author and motorsports insider JK Kelly at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing in York Springs, Pennsylvania – just a stone’s throw from his home – to unpack a life that’s anything but ordinary.

JK’s origin story begins in a place few would associate with high-octane thrills: a funeral home. Growing up surrounded by big block Cadillac hearses and limousines, he found creative ways to turn those somber machines into street racing legends. Yes, you read that right – he drag raced a hearse. “I’d use the limo to impress girls and the hearse for racing,” JK laughed. “Until a local cop caught me speeding and told me to come clean to my dad.”

That moment led to a pivot: a station wagon with a souped-up engine and dual exhaust became his new playground. But the real turning point came when JK took a janitor job at Upper Darby High School and met fellow gearheads who introduced him to the world of NHRA and NASCAR.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Originally aiming for a career in law enforcement, JK’s eyesight disqualified him from the FBI path. So he pivoted to journalism, combining his love for storytelling with motorsports photography. His photos landed in Super Stock magazine, and soon editors were asking him to write the stories too.

That hustle led to a dream gig: a PR role with the Darrell Waltrip Gatorade #88 NASCAR team. JK spent a whirlwind year traveling to 34 races, soaking up the culture and chaos of big-league stock car racing. But when family health issues called him home, he returned to Pennsylvania – and fate had another twist waiting.

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of the Break/Fix we interview author JK Kelly, delving into his rich history within the auto racing sphere. JK Kelly discusses his journey from studying journalism at Penn State to taking photos at auto races and writing features for magazines. His career included a significant stint with the Darryl Waltrip Gatorade NASCAR team and a 30-year tenure with VP Racing Fuels. Despite his ventures, Kelly’s passion for writing led him to author six novels, including his latest thriller, ‘Deadly Driver.’ Recorded at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing in York Springs, PA, the episode explores his experiences, inspirations for writing, and his latest works. Kelly elaborates on his book ‘Fueling Around,’ recounting tales from his career, and delves into the creation of ‘Deadly Driver,’ explaining the protagonist Bryce Winters’ journey, which parallels his own experiences and those of famed racers. The conversation also touches on the competitive fuel industry, the future of motorsports, and the viability of electric vehicles. Kelly shares insights into his writing process, future projects, and the possibility of ‘Deadly Driver’ being adapted into a screenplay.

Recorded ON-SITE at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing in York Springs, PA
Normally we would start a Break/Fix episode by asking people for their superhero origin story, the who/what/where/when and how they came to be the petrol-head that they are. But in your case, much of that is outlined in your first book “Fuelin’ Around” – so let’s rewind the clock a bit, and talk about your passion for cars. Was there something as a kid that got you interested? Did you come from a racing family? Was going to racing events a past-time? Was there a particular car that imprinted on you and attracted you to this world?
You went to Penn State for journalism, at that time, what were your career goals? How did you end up on the other side of the fence, finding yourself involved in photographing and writing about race teams? The journey from photography/journalism to VP Fuels
Let’s talk more about writing a book as compared to journalism. Many people say “I’d love to write a book” but it all becomes very real when you sit down at the screen and start a journey of 85,000 words.
I’ve read Deadly Driver, it’s an arrive & drive, jump in, strap down and go! type of read. You’re thrown directly into the action on Page 1. Lots of fun and a great introduction to the world of Motorsports, especially Formula 1. It comes at a great time because of all the hype and interest surrounding shows like Netflix’s “Drive to Survive”
Why Formula 1? Are you an F1 fan? Let’s talk about Bryce a bit – people might be thinking, how plausible is a F1 driver + Super Spy combo?
Throughout the book there are tons of twists and turns which keeps the reader waiting for the next apex… but there’s also many nods to VP fuels and others throughout the story, some obvious, others not so much.
The flow of the book grabs you right away, the first 3 chapters really set the stage and then about every other chapter for the next 12 or so, you interleave the exposition in there as flashbacks. It reminds me of how TV shows can easily do that to keep us engaged. Could you see Deadly Driver moving into a screenplay?

Transcript

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: While studying journalism at Penn state university, our guests traveled to auto races on the weekends where he took photos. He was able to sell to racing magazines. One of his editors suggested you’re taking the pictures. So write the feature stories that go with them.

After a stint with the Darryl Woltrip Gatorade number 88 NASCAR team, he spent the next 30 years traveling the world for VP racing fuels. But that passion for writing never left him. Following the advice of James Patterson, who said, give the readers what they [00:01:00] want, six novels later from his debut title found in time to his accounts on the road with VP in fuel and around through his latest thriller, deadly driver, author, JK Kelly has striven to do just that.

And we want to welcome JK to break, fix to share his story. And we’re here on site with him at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing in York Springs, not far from where he lives. So he can share his story with us. So welcome to the show, JK.

J.K. Kelly: Hi, Eric. How are you?

Crew Chief Eric: So normally we would start a break, fix episode by asking people for their superhero origin story, the who, what, where, when, and how they came into the petrolhead world, what they’re all about.

But in your case, most of that is outlined in your book, Fueling Around. So let’s rewind the clock a bit. Talk about your passion for cars.

J.K. Kelly: It’s an interesting story for me, hopefully for other people too. I grew up in a funeral home. Not many people know that. And not many people can brag or boast or shabbily say that’s what happened.

But for me, I grew up in a funeral home, had all the strange [00:02:00] occurrences that everybody would always ask me about. What’s it like growing up there, et cetera, et cetera. But for me, the beauty of it was as I got older and I got into cars, I realized that what we had sitting in our garage were a couple big block Cadillac Hurses and Limousines.

Once I got my license, my job was to keep the cars clean, fueled up, ready to go. A lot of it was during one of the gas crises back in the day, so I’d always be sitting in the gas line with everybody else, sitting there idling with a big ol Cadillac Hurse. Then all of a sudden I found myself doing a little drag racing, street racing at night.

In the hearse? In the hearse, in the hearse. The beauty of it was, you know, as I got my license, I now could do a lot of good things where I would use the limousine, meet girls, pick up girls, they’d pull, they’d drive around, add a limo. So I’d use the limo for one thing and I’d have the hearse for racing.

And it wasn’t until a friend of the family, A local police officer caught me speeding. He said, you better tell your dad or I’m going to. So I did. My father said, look, two things. Take the name off the side of the hearse. We don’t need that name. Lights or red lights and crashing and doing any of that other stuff.

And also we don’t need any of the [00:03:00] bad negatives out from that. Just be safe. So I realized I can’t be tolling around in those. A couple of us thought that getting a 1973, 74 Plymouth Fury, old state police car, Pennsylvania, they had the four forties. Dual exhaust, they were badass as far as we were concerned.

Thought about buying one of those, and instead, talked my father into, Cato and Moisey’s station wagon, right? Limited, he bought that. All of a sudden, the two barrel was gone. New intake for metal rock, four barrel carburetor, dual exhaust, et cetera, et cetera. That opportunity afforded me a lot of cool things to do with cars.

But the beauty of this was, I got a side job working at Upper Darby High School after hours as a janitor. Met all these other guys, same mindset as I, and in time, they started taking me to races. Go to the NHRA race in Englishtown, New Jersey. I went to the NASCAR race at Pocono. And once I got to those, I fell for the sport.

Just fell in love with it. My original passion for law enforcement got shot in the head because I found that my eyes would not pass any of the eye tests. [00:04:00] We had friends at the FBI Academy. We had friends, police forces, etc., etc. To the funeral home, bottom line was, if your eyes can’t pass the test, there’s nothing we can do about it.

I always was into storytelling. I loved telling stories. I shifted from a law enforcement major to journalism major. That’s where you picked up getting, I wound up going to races, taking pictures as a hobby, and someone said, no, the photos are really good. Probably sell them. So I sent them a super stock magazine.

They said, yeah, we’ll buy two or three of those. And before you know it, they were giving me connections to go to the races. That’s when the one editor said, you know how to write, so write the stories that go along with it. That just played out. I was going to the races, doing what I did. But then I realized that freelancing is not going to pay the bills.

I fell in love with NASCAR, as I had said. My dream job would be to work in NASCAR. So I decided while I needed to get a full time job, I called Charlotte Motor Speedway. I said, are you hiring anybody in your PR, communications office? And they said, no. The key question that came up next was, [00:05:00] You know, anybody that is, and they said, we think Dygart is give them a call called Dygart.

Three days later, I was on a plane, flew down to Charlotte, had the interview. They were one of the first incursions of Yankees into the South Gardner brothers were from Connecticut. They actually started using Bill Grumpy Jenkins power to qualify at Daytona and do some other things. Another Yankee from where I run from in that area.

And they brought another Yankee in as their PR guy and I was there for a year, learned a lot. Went to 34, 35 races. Had a great time. And right at the end of that first year, Waltrip and the Gardeners were having a fight. He wanted to change his contract or he wanted out. It got weird in the shop. Some of the guys were pro Darryl.

Some of the guys were pro owner. That time, my wife decided I don’t like Charlotte. I miss home. Both my parents encountered cancer and said, we need your help opportunity or a sense of duty caused me to move back home, work in the funeral business for a little while. After a time, my [00:06:00] parents both passed away.

We’ve got this fight of VP racing fields for you, brand new company blood a few years old, and they asked me to run the office. It’s based in Chester quasi. Look that over and it’s thirty years.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s pause there a second. Let’s go back a little bit, though. We ask our guests all the time. Did you come from a racing family?

Obviously you didn’t grew up in workshop. Funeral directors, whatnot. For many of us, when we were younger, we imprint on a certain car. I don’t want to say that the purse was the car that got you excited to go to the track and go to racing. Was there some sort of sports car? Was there something out there that you like, Oh my God, that’s the most beautiful car in the world.

J.K. Kelly: At the time I really fell for the Dodge Charger. I was very impressed with Richard Petty’s career. The first time I saw that car, person not on TV, that dig little orange that they had in the car, Petty blue, his track record, his performance, the king of the [00:07:00] sports, so to speak. And I was just totally impressed with that.

So I went out and bought a Dodge Charger too. From there, which sent me to the racing fuel end of things. Well, Englishtown. I had never seen a nitro funny car before. Jungle Jim Lieberman, who was from Pennsylvania, very close to where I grew up as well. He was there, Bruce Larson was there, all the local Pennsylvania heroes were there.

All the touring guys were there. Once they let a nitro car, I was done. Didn’t matter to me what car it was, just the nitro just got me going. Oval track racing, the sound, the smell, the excitement. It was, it was a three ring circus and I fell for it.

Crew Chief Eric: They often say that you only need to see something about seven times before it really sticks in your memory.

So back then, Richard Petty, sponsored by STP for almost forever, another fuel company, I think that was subliminal messaging, or maybe some sort of serendipity carrying you to VP.

J.K. Kelly: No, it’s interesting you say that though, because the VP logo, if you really look at it, if you take the outcroppings of the V and the P, cut them out, it looks like an oval shaped STP logo, the red, [00:08:00] white, and blue of the logo.

I don’t think at the time, I don’t know what was imprinted where, but after I left VP, I’ve still worked with them as a consultant for many years. And two years ago, they asked me to write 50 year history of the company. Company turns 50 in 2025. Interviewing the founder, who I knew very, very well for years, we talked about Where the logo came from, where the name came from, et cetera, et cetera.

So I don’t know about STP being a credit in my head, but I do remember in elementary school, somebody said, if you send STP, self addressed stamped envelope, they will mail you two STP decals. So everybody in the school did that. At the time Andy Granatelli was sponsoring the IndyCars. Everybody was watching wide world sports and the Indy 500.

And I could tell you that our school was blasted with STP logos. They were everywhere. 30, 40 years later, here I am making sure that the DP logo, similar logo is plastered everywhere in the world. We wanted to put it in front of anybody and everybody. Get it on as many race cars, get the fuel in as many cars, make the company famous.[00:09:00]

That’s what we did.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s talk about your early days at VP. Now there’s many people out there that are familiar with the VP logo. We’re talking about logos and to your point, it’s everywhere. I mean, I personally have 12 VP cans in my own garage, different colors and styles, whatnot. Let’s start from the basics, kind of twofold.

A, what does VP stand for? But B. You went from journalist to now being in fuel industry. What was that transition like? And what did you do when you first got there?

J.K. Kelly: The question about what the VP logo stands for, what the name stands for. It came from volatile products. That was what Burns came up with many, many years ago, back in 1975 in San Antonio.

They actually named volatile products here on the very first design. Then after that. Company name was actually VP hydrocarbons. That was on the logo as well. And in time we removed that again. Here we are. As far as the transition from journalism to racing fuel, pretty drastic jump. That’s really a tough one.

I’ve always had an investigative mindset and that’s where the wanting to go into law enforcement came from. I didn’t want to be a beat cop and no [00:10:00] disrespect to those guys, but I wanted to go after white collar criminals. That was more of my interest. When I found out I couldn’t be in law enforcement. On that side of it, journalism gave me the opportunity to become an investigative journalist.

That’s where my mind went. I was so excited and so thrilled to be around racing. I really did put that off to the side. So once I got an opportunity to not so much leave the investigative journalism behind, because I did enjoy doing some stories, once I got to be in the circus, to be a part of it and not just sit in the grandstands, but to be.

delivering fuel and talking to Jungle Jim Lieberman or John Force or going out to Kruppy Jenkins shop in Malvern, Pennsylvania, shitting the brakes with him for a little while and sitting there while I did some dino pulls. That was cool. That was the coolest thing you could do. And at the time, what I found also was trying to find people to come and work with us.

It was so easy. If you told somebody who might have been a truck driver or a secretary or a warehouse worker, you get the opportunity to go to races on weekends, you get an opportunity to meet all these [00:11:00] different famous people. They just gravitated to it. At any given time at the VP Warehouse, whether it was in Chester or in the new facility we built in Newark, Delaware, you could have a pro circuit rig coming in to pick up fuel before they were heading to Southwick.

You can have a road racing team coming in that was headed for testing down at Summit Point or Daytona or wherever they might be going. It was just a cool environment to be in. So you wrote

Crew Chief Eric: Fuelin Around before you left, right?

J.K. Kelly: I wrote Fuelin Around after I retired. There was an ownership change. I just saw that as an opportunity to, it’s like I’d been a Philadelphia Eagle all my life, and the transition to what, to be a Dallas Cowboy was not necessarily in my mindset, it’s not in my blood, so to speak.

My daughter had just gotten pregnant with her first child, she had her hands full in need of my help. My wife had had some health problems, and it really curtailed some of the things we were doing. And so all the stars aligned for me the same way they did that day. I called Charlotte motor speedway decades before and said, no, anybody that’s hiring.

I think fate just said, it’s time for you to do something different. [00:12:00] So I was still able to maintain my relationship with VP as a consultant. It gave me the full time opportunity to work with my daughter. Help my wife as well. And then everybody says, well, you’re retired. What are you going to do? Play golf.

I have no time for that stuff at all. So I just said, you know what? I want to get back to writing for, you know, six months later, my first novel was cracked out, found in time. And then everybody had said. You know, such an interesting life, had a great time. We want to know more about it. So I thought it was a perfect opportunity to write a book about what I’d done.

Crew Chief Eric: Was there some events or something that happened at VP that inspire you to write Fueling Around or what is Fueling Around really based on somebody’s trying to figure it out for the first time and wants to pick it up and read it?

J.K. Kelly: In one sense, I had told people that are interested in the business side of things.

It shows people how we took a very, very small company, a company that only had about eight or nine employees when I started there. So where it is today, where it’s a global entity, there’s some business lessons in there on how to approach things, how to attack people, how to do a slot [00:13:00] analysis of the competition.

You have to be self aware. If you’re going to go to war with another company, you need to know where your strengths and weaknesses are, where your vulnerabilities are to a degree. It’s like playing chess. If this company is going to make this, take this series away. Or they’re going to entice an organization, change the fuel regulations, so the VP products aren’t legal anymore, which happened.

You got to understand how to deal with those bombs that go off, how to work around. In the book Feeling Around, I can tell you a quick story that’s in the book. Hell, everybody knows the off name. If you grew up watching the Formula One races, they’re a French based company. They have since changed the name to Total.

But they decided they wanted to get involved with motocross in America. BP was fueling everybody. We were winning all the championships at the time. We were the go to fuel for supercross motocross. They came over to the AMA and said, I’d like to sponsor. One of the series. The only thing we’d like to do in return for that is we’d like you to adjust a specific gravity regulations.

Can’t remember the numbers for sure, but at the time I think [00:14:00] RC 12, which is the most popular fuel on the planet, particularly in two stroke motor cross racing, I think the gravity was about 716 corrected at 60 degrees. They talked the AMA into jacking it up to 718. Which would accommodate one of their products, which happened to be auctioned at the time.

Ours wasn’t. And AMA took that deal. We said, alright. Hey chemist, what do you got to do to jack the specific gravity up? 716 to 718. A little tweak. A week later, our fuels are still legal. And we kept winning. Then when they brought the auctioned product, as I said, they turned around and spent six months developing a fuel.

In a week’s time, we had something better. They’d go back to Solace with the chemists. We need this. We need something better. They’d bring a new fuel to pro circuit and all these other teams, we’d see what they had done. All right, let’s go. We had asked the French to help us get away from the British back in 1775, 76.

And here we are, the son of a guns of France, it’s an incursion of our realm, so to speak. So we turned around [00:15:00] and went head to head with them. We beat them down and sent them home with their tails between their legs. And years later, I met the gentleman who was with Health at the time, who was running that organization.

And he said, what amazed me about your company was it was so proactive and reactive. And I’ve been to the lab there where they have all these chemists. They had more chemists than we had dock workers. And they said, you guys would turn around and make something better. One or two of you guys would make something better in a week’s time than we had been working on for months.

So I related some of those stories about how to overcome all obstacles. Now, some you can’t, sometimes you can’t just beat the money, you can’t do some of it.

Crew Chief Eric: But it’s wrapped in a work of fiction though, right? It’s not just autobiography or autobiography.

J.K. Kelly: Fueling Around is an autobiography. There’s not really any fiction in it at all.

It went over very well, it was a popular read, and a lot of people have asked me to write a sequel. And because I’m still doing what I’m doing, I’ve started something called Still Fueling Around, but I don’t think that would come out for some time because I’m so busy writing the other novels. Once you write one [00:16:00] novel and you get a good response to it, people say, well, it’s a sequel, I’m going to, it’s a sequel.

Thrillers appeal to a much broader audience. A motor sports book appeals to a certain smaller group where you might enjoy telling your story.

Crew Chief Eric: So I guess for most of us, we don’t realize how competitive the fuel industry is. There’s many other Pennsylvania based fuel companies as well. BP’s not the only one.

How did that play out? I mean, obviously you kind of ousted the French, but you still had Sunoco to deal with. You still have other people.

J.K. Kelly: VP is actually based in San Antonio. That’s where Steve Barton’s born and raised, that’s where HQ is. We opened, as I said, the plant in Chester, Pennsylvania. Right up the road, or actually a little bit south of us in Markershut, was the Sunogo Refinery.

It was so funny that we were so close. We were enemy combatants, we were right there. I actually would run into some of the Sunogo higher ups at the local Home Depots. We’d bump into each other while picking up lumber, plywood, or whatever we’re doing for home improvements. We always had a friendly rivalry.

If you go back into the 70s and early 80s, when things were a little bit different, [00:17:00] the people that ran the Sunoco Race Fuel Division had told some of their distributors, you’re not even to talk to. Don’t fraternize, don’t visit with them, don’t talk to them. As things have changed, we hang out, we can have a beer together at a bar, during a trade show, or during a race, and have a good time.

It’s a rivalry, but we’re still friends.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s switch gears a little bit. Let’s talk more about what it’s like to write a book prior to journalism. Your background is steeped writing. Many people will say, like you have said, I, I would love to write a book, but it all becomes very, very real when you sit down at the screen and start your journey of 85, 000 words, right?

It’s very different than writing a blog post or a quick article for a magazine or something like that. So how do you make that transition? Stepping away from fueling around, which is more nonfiction based. How did you develop that wanting to write in thriller genre aspect of it?

J.K. Kelly: Well, thrillers always intrigued me, whether it’s movies, television shows, books.

A thrill is a thrill. It always intrigued me. I have a very vivid imagination. That genre appealed to me. The first book I [00:18:00] wrote was called Found in Time. It involved a select group of marine raiders going back in time to do some missions. Because I’m a history buff, the idea was, what would happen if you could send them back to do certain things?

Maybe you sent them back to be witnesses to history. With the idea or the understanding, they could not change it. If you know any Marines, if you put them in a situation where they see something bad going down, they really struggle not to help, not to get involved. Of course, that’s what happens. I set the guys back.

They saw something happening, they can’t just stand by, they get involved, of course, all hell breaks loose. Yeah, yeah, so the story, James Patterson, who I took his master class and I met him and he gave me some great advice. He was always big on, you must do outlines, and I’ve never outlined any. I just turned around and I’d start telling the story.

I’m, uh, they call him a pantser. That’s I, I ride by the seat of my pants. I’ll write a chapter. I kind of know where it’s going, but as the book evolves, if you might’ve had an outline, you might’ve wanted to go this direction, but sometimes it just takes a natural organic feel where now it’s going over here.

That’s where I go. I just [00:19:00] follow wherever way it takes.

Crew Chief Eric: Dream of consciousness, I believe they

J.K. Kelly: call it. Yeah, very much so. Yeah. So if you’re writing at two o’clock in the morning when you sat down at 10 o’clock, think I’ll put a half hour in. Now it’s two o’clock. Your wife’s looking at you like, what are you doing?

A laptop awake. It is what it is. Writers just write when they can. It’s something we do. It’s in our blood. You’re a writer yourself. You know what it’s all about.

Crew Chief Eric: I stare at that cursor blinking sometimes. Where am I going from here?

J.K. Kelly: But you know, it’s funny. A lot of people have said to me, I’d love to write a book.

I’ve got this story I want to tell. That’s great. Sometimes just writing something, whether it’s a paragraph, or an essay, or a short story, or a novel, can be very freeing for someone. You can channel a lot of things, download a lot of things that maybe you’ve been carrying around in your backpack for a while, even if it’s in the subconscious.

If you really want to become a writer, if you want to become a commercial writer and sell books and make money selling books, what you have to understand is who’s going to want to read this? Who’s going to want this story? Has this story already been told? If you’re going to [00:20:00] go out and talk about some secret agent that’s going to go do this or a marine who’s going to go do that, stories have been told a million times.

Guys like Jack Carr,

Crew Chief Eric: James Bond.

J.K. Kelly: Whole nother story. I’ve tried to tell stories that had not necessarily been told. I was interested in the time travel thing, so I did that, did a sequel to it called The Lost Pulse. They both did very well. Then I started into something else that involved an FBI agent who was disgraced, and get his mojo back.

But then came Deadly Driver.

Crew Chief Eric: Which we’re going to get into here in a little bit. You’ve created this whole world. And I think that’s one of the hardest things to do, especially when you’re putting together a disjointed series, you have some sequels in there and sequels that you’re working on, but how did you sit down and kind of flush out all the persona?

Do they come from your personal experiences or any of the characters based on people, you know, or based on yourself, let’s take Bryce winters as an example, the main character in deadly driver, which we’re going to expand upon a little bit more, or even, uh, Matt Christopher. Those two main characters in two of your books, where did that come from?

Where did those ideas come from? How do you flush out their [00:21:00] voice and the way they think and things like that?

J.K. Kelly: Well, a being a history buff that allows me to have studied people and study their, their stories, their biographies. There are certain elements of certain people that interest me and I just heck and choose what seems to make sense to me.

For instance, Bryce winner’s character in deadly driver. He is an American kid who grew up in Vermont. He was playing with rally cars in the woods of Vermont. Something happens in the book. He decides it’s time to go to track racing. He goes there. Something happens there. It was onto something else. But through that, I had always been an admirer of Mario Andretti.

I thought he was a spectacular racer. He’s done so many great things. He’s another Pennsylvania boy, transplanted from Italy, of course, having won Daytona Indy and then Formula One World Championship. In addition, all the other things that he did, I thought, that’s cool. There’s not many guys that boast about that, about doing that.

And so I came up with a character who would be this homegrown kid, would work his way up through motor sports and pursue his [00:22:00] idol, so to speak. Runs into some folks that are putting him in the right cars, the right opportunity. He goes to the top.

Crew Chief Eric: And, you know, there’s a lot of similarities between Bryce’s origin story and Mario Andretti’s, especially with us here at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, you see a lot of displays of Mario Andretti here, where he got his start in dirt track racing, sprint cars and whatnot.

So it’s kind of funny. Bryce started in rallying backwoods of Vermont and similar to Mario Andretti in that respect. So I think you’ve done a good job of encapsulating that, but. In some ways, I think the bigger challenge is in the auxiliary characters, the supporting cast, his father, his uncle, all these other people that he’s interacting with and how you paint those pictures.

And, and in talking to you offline, a lot of scenarios in the books actually come from true stories. And we’ll dive into that a little bit more as we talk more about the book. So I also want to ask, before we make that transition, outside of Patterson, who are some of the other authors that you admire that influenced you to develop your style?

J.K. Kelly: Going back a few years, some of my favorite writers have been Tom Clancy. But someone who [00:23:00] really got me turned on to books was Dan Brown. From the time he wrote The Da Vinci Code, he wrote about four or five books after that. I read every single one of them and I read fast. I just fell in love with the way he wrote, the way he did his characters, the way he developed his stories.

Just went for the ride. I started to read a lot of James Patterson. There was such a volume of books. There was too many to read of Patterson’s. He’s got a bazillion out there. Once I got the idea in my mind that I wanted to write, I encountered some editors that would do some work. I’d set up some chapters that’d show me where I had lost my mind, where I had wandered off the reservation, so to speak.

And they would show me how to come back in. Ryan Stack is one of them. He just came out with a book called Fields of Fire, which is getting great reviews. Ryan’s a great editor. Good friend. He taught me quite a way of developing my writing style. I

Crew Chief Eric: was always a huge fan of Michael Cray. I gravitate towards his work and I was very fortunate to meet him the year before he passed away.

And I’ve always kind of held other authors of, you know, that technical science fiction sort of world against his work. For me, that’s [00:24:00] always kind of the gold standard. I mean, you get the Dean Coombses and other people, you know, in that similar genre. But for me, that’s, what’s always influenced my writing is how do I a, the technical.

To the lay person. And that’s always, and I even have to do that in my day job. So I guess we all pull our inspiration from different places.

J.K. Kelly: And that was a challenge that I faced when I wrote deadly driver. Everything I’ve ever done in motor sports was always trying to entice other people who don’t know anything about racing to come, try it, come check it out, come to the races.

I had experienced carding for instance. All my friends had drag cars, they spent a fortune on their drag cars, a fortune on their motors, and a trailer, and at the end of the day, I would bust on them, Okay, you did all this, and you spent a total of 2 minutes and 12 seconds in the race. I spent 10 percent of what you spent, I spent all afternoon in the car, having a great time.

Quad wheel karting, having a ball with two stroke motors, on ovals, that was fantastic. The one thing I can tell you about different riding styles, if you enjoy fast paced action, that’s the way I rate. There are a [00:25:00] lot of authors that have to give you so much, a

Crew Chief Eric: ton of exposition.

J.K. Kelly: They tell you the color of the blinds, the color of the tile on the

Crew Chief Eric: floor,

J.K. Kelly: what color my shirt is.

So I can’t read Tolkien.

Crew Chief Eric: The first whole chapter is about the guy getting out of bed. Really?

J.K. Kelly: Yeah, to a degree. I write as if I’m Talonel Joe. If I say a monkey walks into a bar. I don’t waste time telling you what color the bar is, what color the chandelier is, or color of the beer bottles. I just go for it.

I’m also regarded as somebody who likes to introduce a lot of multiple threads into the book, and I wind up luckily being able to put them all together and then have a fitting conclusion.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s talk about more specifically Deadly Driver. So I want to read a kind of synopsis here to bring our audience up to speed on what the book is really about.

Jetting off to Monte Carlo, Speeding through the tight turns of a mountain road en route to an evening at the casino. What could be more exhilarating? After racing in a Grand Prix, Bryce Winters boards a luxury yacht to bask in the limelight and mingle with celebrities, only to find a gun to his head.[00:26:00]

From the rolling hills of Vermont to some of the world’s most powerful cities, Winters is thrust into improbable adventure, riveting intrigue, and elusive romance. The question remains, can he navigate around the dead ends in a maze of CIA manipulation and entrapment? Or will he fall prey to the sinister forces of underworld intelligence?

So I’ve personally read Deadly Driver. To me, it’s an arrive and drive, jump in, strap down and go sort of read. To your point, it’s very fast paced. You are thrown directly into the action on page one. I feel that the book is lots of fun. It’s a great introduction to the motorsports world, as you said, especially Formula One, especially in today’s day and age of people watching, you know, Netflix’s Drive to Survive and being more interested in the motorsport discipline of open wheels, specifically Formula One.

Why Formula One? Are you a fan?

J.K. Kelly: I’m a big fan of Formula 1. I think it’s the ultimate bit in motorsports. And because I’m a travel bug and because I’ve traveled the world and attended so many different [00:27:00] events all around the world and enjoyed the cultures and the cities and the people and everything, if I was going to write a book about racing, I want to have a global audience.

I want to appeal to them. Obviously, if you want to sell books, you want to sell them all around the world. You still want to write something about NASCAR or IndyCar. You want to write something that someone in Buenos Aires will want to read. Somebody who goes to Or who goes to Hockenheim, Gerber, Silverstone, I want them to pick it up and relate to it.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about Bryce a little bit. We kind of mentioned him a couple times earlier. People might be thinking, how plausible is a Formula One driver and super spy combo? Does this imply something that has occurred in the past? Am I implicating something maybe we shouldn’t be talking about?

J.K. Kelly: The concept came to me and I just started writing.

It wasn’t until after I finished the book that I ran into some folks in Los Angeles. Who claimed that there were a few drivers way back in the day who might have been doing a few things overtly for their governments, whether it was for the United States government, British government, the German government, for that matter.

I think it’s very plausible. Price [00:28:00] operates in a world that’s super elite. There’s not that many F1 drivers on the planet. He gets to go to all these fancy galas. Meet all these fancy people, go places where a lot of people can’t go, he hobnobs to everybody, he’s partying on yachts, private jets, et cetera.

Something happens in the book that puts him in a vulnerable position. The CIA catches him at it and they force him to work for them. It’s pretty simple. You’re going to do this or we’re going to make this known. You’re going to be not in a world of trouble just with the United States, you’ll be in trouble in these other countries.

And so they force him to work for them. He doesn’t mind doing some of the jobs that they assign him. Because he believes he’s doing the right thing for his country. He doesn’t like having a gun put in his head. That’s what he really struggles with. So his dilemma is, trying to win a second Formula One championship, he wants to do better than Mario.

First his goal was, be as good as Mario and then rise to the occasion, go another step. So he wants to do that, he wants to do the job that the government’s asked him to do, but he also wants to break free of that. He’ll go to some [00:29:00] extreme ends to try and break free, but not he ever accomplishes that.

Reader’s got to find out for themselves. And then to add the other little element to this, he suffered a tremendous heartbreak in his younger years in Vermont. He’s never found love again. He’s never pursued her. And so he finally runs into a woman on a long haul flight, is totally taken by her. He decides to pursue her.

When she realizes what she’s gotten herself into, I’m not going to elaborate on that.

Crew Chief Eric: No spoilers here.

J.K. Kelly: She cuts loose, and his job is to try and win her back. And it gets very complicated.

Crew Chief Eric: So I really like the fact that Bryce is a simple guy. His upbringing is very relatable to most of the people that are problem with this.

It’s like you said, grew up in Vermont, backwoods, running cars, having fun, started in the lower leagues and worked his way up. It’s very similar to the stories of Andy Pilgrim and Andy Lee and other folks that we’ve interviewed on the show. Obviously the bigger overture is that Mario Andretti is one of his heroes or that he’s going to be, As good as, if not better than Mario, right?

A triple crown winner, all those kinds of things. So I wonder, [00:30:00] is Mario Bryce’s idol or is he more complex than that? I feel that there’s a lot of you in him as well. So how much of that comes through? Like the more in depth part of Bryce’s personality. How was he formed? What did you model him?

J.K. Kelly: Part of it probably evolves from the fact that I wanted to be in law enforcement.

He grew up in an environment raised by a cop. Adam Marie with those two influences in his household. And imagine what that by product is. Just like you have young people that are growing up in the Midwest. They’re homegrown. They have a strong work ethic. They believe in America. They’re very patriotic. So that’s what you got when you meet Chris layers.

As I wrote the book and put it out for reviews, there was a French journalist that came back to me and said, can’t really relate to him because rice. He’s not like formula one drivers. I said, well, he isn’t. He’s an American kid, grown up in rural Vermont. He didn’t grow up in the streets of Monte Carlo.

Thousand dollar watch on his wrist. Going to exclusive schools. Born into a family of fortune and fame. He’s worked for everything he’s gotten. And so it’s a different culture [00:31:00] lately. He’s not like the typical Formula driver, and I think that’s what makes him special.

Crew Chief Eric: So he’s got a car tucked away in Vermont.

He lives in Utah. But when he does go back to Vermont, he picks up his black Subaru WRX. But nowhere else in the rest of the book does it ever mention what he’s got tucked away in his garage in Utah. So what is in Bryce’s, let’s call it, and who car drive?

J.K. Kelly: Three or four car. I’m still working on that. But anyway, the Subaru WRX, so you know, comes to the fact that I love rally racing.

And I know a lot of the guys at Vermont Sports Car. And so in the story, Bryce befriends them. They have a working relationship with him. He started out with Team O’Neill, New Hampshire. That’s where some of the other history comes from. But when you do get to his home in Park City, up in the hills, after you go inside his garage, he’s got his Uncle Pete’s Toyota pickup, which is an old standby.

He has a Mercedes AMG GT Coupe that they’ve sent him, because he’s involved with Mercedes and racing. That’s a red one, by the [00:32:00] way. It’s a beautiful vehicle. He also has a Chevy Tahoe Z71 that he used to just cruise around. He’s an American guy, so he’s got mostly American cars. The foreign stuff that’s there was, was sent to him by Germany, by the Mercedes.

Crew Chief Eric: He’s got to have a bike in there too, right?

J.K. Kelly: Well yeah, that’s not American, that was not a Hurley, it’s a Ducati.

Crew Chief Eric: Red to match the Mercedes, right?

J.K. Kelly: Yeah, yeah, well that, yeah, that’s the funny thing too. If people were to take the time to study the cover of Deadly Driver, I had mentioned to you offline that there’s something about the cover that nobody’s picked up on that’ll come to play in the sequel that I’m halfway through right now.

And I’m just gonna leave it at that. I just mentioned Ducati, and I’m gonna mention the book cover for Deadly Driver, so you can study it and see what I planted there that nobody’s seen yet.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the funny part about Deadly Driver. It’s a book where there are a ton of twists and turns, which keeps the reader waiting for, pun intended, the next apex.

And I noticed as I was reading it, there’s a ton of nods to VP Fuels. Obviously, it’s in your background, you were there for 30 years. Some are obvious and some not so much. Why don’t we stop and talk [00:33:00] about the PRI scene? Some of the nods you made specifically in that. It felt like a homecoming and it almost felt like you were Telling people, but not telling people, Hey, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. And kind of name dropping and going there. So what was that all about? Why was that kind of in the middle of the book?

J.K. Kelly: Oh God, that’s very complicated. That’s very, very complicated. After I retired from VP, the SEMA show, the PRI show, the auto sports show in Birmingham, some of the other big shows around the country had always been something I had attended, always works with the VP uniform, et cetera.

I wanted to send Bryce because he’s American. Once the season’s over, he’s not spending his time on the slopes in Switzerland. He’s not in Belize. He’s back home in Park City or in Vermont visiting his family. So when he goes to the PRI show, it gives him an opportunity to say hello to the people that have helped him along the way, the friendships that he’s made, because as he worked his way up through Track racing at Stafford and Thompson and on the dirt track at Lebanon Valley.

A lot of people were friends, Anns crew members, et [00:34:00] cetera. For me, that was a journey. The first PRI went back to everybody was, Hey, you’re retired. What hell’s matter with you? What are you doing? You know, what are you gonna do? It was a way of having me go back through that. But in Bryce doing that, he got to thank a lot of the folks who had meant something to him in his career, but it also gave him an opportunity in the book to tease what he might be doing in the future.

In the book, there’s something critical that’s happened after the last race of the season. And so as he’s wandering around the PRI show before it opens, they let him in early to say hi to some folks. He stops by the NASCAR booth and he stops by the IMSA booth and the local media and some of the foreign press that are following him around are like, what’s this mean?

What’s it mean? And so he just says, you never know. Maybe I’ll go back to running cup. Maybe I’ll back in an IMSA car. Who knows? You’ll just have to wait and see what happens. But the last page of deadly driver will let you know what he’s up to.

Crew Chief Eric: No spoilers, but I do want to take yet another pit stop here and ask you a question because the PRI scene was also important in the fact that there were some other [00:35:00] undertones there and you make some hints about maybe your personal thoughts on EVs, electric vehicles in that particular scene.

So I want to ask you, what are your thoughts on the evolution coming from the fuel industry?

J.K. Kelly: That’s probably something that needs to happen on a grand scale. But there’ll always be a niche, always be just as there is today. Motorsports is not mainstream, not everybody on every street is involved with motorsports.

So there’ll always be cars, there’ll always be racing. Gasoline will always be around in some capacity, as will lubricants, etc, etc. But EV is coming, they’ll be here to stay. And just like as we’ve toured this beautiful facility today, as you see the evolution of sprint cars and all the other cars they’ve got here, the EVs will go down the same road.

Just like everything else. I remember the first cell phone I ever had came in a black box that was the size of a lunch pail. And now, you know, they’ve got these little itty bitty tiny things that connect you with the world. I feel like I’ve got a Dick Tracy watch on, you know, where I can talk to people, check the internet, order lunch, check the stock market and book a flight.

So EVs will probably go [00:36:00] down that same route, but. Us guys who love the smell of race fuel, all the other things that come along with that, the exhaust and nitromethane, they’ll remain for a long time, at least in our lifetimes, I would think. The only thing that concerns me the most about it all is I remember hanging out with the guys in high school where we were changing the carburetor, playing with the timing light, doing all the cool things they used to do.

In the garage, whether you’re doing it with your uncle, your brother, your father, best friends, whatever, there was a camaraderie that came about encircling the engine, so to speak. What are you going to do now? Am I supposed to sit on the curb with my grandson and show him how to change batteries? There will always be something about racing that will draw those of us who enjoy those competitive sports to it.

Of everything with EVs and racing that concerns me is the same. I was in Catalonia a couple years ago when somebody was testing a race kit electric motorcycle. What the? It was like, you know, when you go to the beach, you’ve got a mosquito or something or buzz around your ear. It’s like, what is that? If you go to an [00:37:00] NHRA national event and you stand at the starting line when John Force does a burnout and you feel your chest rattle, there’s a wow factor.

And electric’s just no. Unless they figure out a way of sending thunderbolts out to the people in the crowd to give sort of a static charge or something. I don’t see the entertainment value.

Crew Chief Eric: I can see that and a lot of people have said that and we say that even about different ice power plants when you compare as an example, you know, there’s nothing like the sound of a flat six or a Ferrari 12 or even the difference between the C7 and the C8s at IMSA races, right?

I mean, the C7 and the Mercedes SLSs, they’re ground thumpers to your point. You not only do you hear them, you feel them. And so we have gotten that response a lot from folks to say, What I will miss the most from racing is the sound.

J.K. Kelly: For me, the analogy would be watching a very passionate, hot love scene in a movie versus watching a silent movie.

That’s the difference.

Crew Chief Eric: A lot of folks have also said, and maybe this is how they justify it. There’s a high probability that motor [00:38:00] sport will become very equestrian. How do you feel about that particular state?

J.K. Kelly: The biggest frustration I’ve had in the last 20 years is seeing how racing has changed as far as attendance goes.

It was 2008 when we had the issues that caused everybody to stop spending. People stopped going to races. People stopped doing a lot of different things. What I’ve found was for the longest time, people didn’t come back. Scary things seem to be that they had gone away from races. They had found something else to do and they’d go back to the racetrack.

Promoters and series are struggling very hard to get some cases. You see that you go to the U S nationals. It’s a packed house. The special events are always going to have packed houses. And the 500 was sold out was 400, 000 people. I forget what the attendance is there, but you also have to model in the fact that they haven’t had full capacity allowed because of COVID for the last few years.

So sadly, it seems as though some people have found other things to do. Some people have gone to an NHRA race. They’ve [00:39:00] gone to see the nitro cars, but then they’ve seen it and they don’t come back. And that’s a sad thing. That’s why promoters and series and racers have to evolve. And you have to continue to reinvent themselves to give people something to Something to bring them back.

These phones, computers, and everything else are great, but they’ve caused so many people used to come out and see and feel and experience excitement are now sitting behind a screen doing all these other things, playing all these other games, and if they’re doing something related to motor sports, they’re driving the screen and I could tell you from racing in Baja course to almost going off a couple of cliff sides and all the other fun things that that involves.

It’s starting with cards, getting in somebody’s penthouse, doing some burnouts in the driveway. All those things are experiential. Nothing on the screen can replace that. Yeah, sure, you can go to Universal and your chair can vibrate when you’re seeing a scene with the Shrek thing, which I did with my grandchildren and stuff.

But there’s nothing like strapping yourself, get in a race car, fire that thing up and go [00:40:00] have some fun. And then if you’re competitive, doing it side by side, going on a turn with somebody that’s just as hungry, just as motivated as you are, you’re nothing like it.

Crew Chief Eric: So will Bryce ever sit and strap into a Formula E car?

If his series continues, is that a

J.K. Kelly: thought crossing? He might be involved with ownership, but he won’t drive one. Well, it’s the same thing we just said a few minutes ago. I had the opportunity to go to the Formula E in Brooklyn. And to be honest with you, there was something, I shouldn’t say this, but there was something more interesting for me to do, uh, in Montreal.

Doing something with the guys who run Fantabox. Which is the F1 store in the old city of Montreal. I understand what Formula E is doing, but when I’ve seen it on television, all’s ears is a squig of the tires. It just doesn’t excite me. I want to support the sport and get people to go out and give it a try.

But for me myself, nah, gotta make noise.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s go back to the book a little bit talking about Bryce, his humble upbringings, and if you follow his career, you had him at Lebanon doing roundy rounds and things like that. And he works his way up in sports cars into formula one, but [00:41:00] there’s that team O’Neill part that sticks out growing up a WRC fan myself in the group era.

I’ve always wanted to do that. When I look at how expensive it can be to get into rally in the United States. That gave me pause when I read the book and I said, how did he afford, you know, how did that work out for him?

J.K. Kelly: Well, in Bryce’s case, book starts out at a young age when he’s, he’s late teens.

Essentially what he did was he fell in love with rally racing and he did a deal with team O’Neill where. I’ll put the hours in, I’ll work here, sweep up, I’ll do whatever, teach me some things, learn what I can. Let me take one of these out. You’re not talking about a WRC world class car that Travis Pastrana might be playing with for Vermont sports car.

There are some lower grade, lower level rally cars where you go out on the course and don’t need a lot of money to do that. Just got to sign up. You could go to the team O’Neill school and take their school. Guess what? You’re driving a rally car. If you’re good at it, and as our guide today at the museum said, if you got some balls, then strap in and go in something [00:42:00] faster and give it a try.

Crew Chief Eric: And you know, what’s funny about that part of the story, I relate that to pro driver Andy Lee’s story where he did the same thing. Never finished high school, found himself in Arizona, turned the wrenches at Bondurant and then worked his way up. So him and Bryce are similar in that way. Bryce is this really every guy in America race car driver, but on the same token, there’s so many facets of other famous race car drivers stories in his kind of more complex persona.

And that’s what I really enjoyed about this book is pulling those threads out and going, that reminds me of this former guest on the show or this driver that I know, things like that. And it makes it very relatable for us, at least our audience. And then the people beyond to your point is getting them out there to understand that.

There’s more depth to these drivers. They’re not just people strapping on helmets and going around in circles.

J.K. Kelly: Very true. Balancing act that I had to do though that was a struggle for me was some racers have told me there wasn’t enough racing in the book. And some people have said, ah, there might, for me, there might’ve been a little too much [00:43:00] detail in some of the formula and racing.

And so that was in the early drafts when I was getting people to my betas, as you call it, there’s beta readers. Give them a chapter, they give you the feedback, tell you if you’ve gone the right direction, if it’s interesting, if it’s not. But the balancing act that I worked with Deadly Driver and I’m working on in the sequel is giving people who are into motorsports enough to get them excited, but also giving someone who doesn’t know that much about motorsports, enough to be interested in it.

Not just in a thriller aspect because Bryce’s story could take place anywhere. I could have said this character not in motorsports. I could have had a little CPA in an accounting firm. I mean, there’s all kinds of folks that get stuck doing things for the FBI. Because they have to do a plea deal or something.

It was a good balancing act. I think I pulled it off. You seem like you liked it. So,

Crew Chief Eric: well, there’s one other part that I did appreciate. And you being from this area, from the East coast, especially especially Pennsylvania, for a lot of us, we call summit point home and seven point raceway is mentioned in the book, especially there at events of driver training and [00:44:00] things like that.

That’s also Grand Touring Motorsports home track. A lot of us, you know, pilgrimage there weekend after weekend for a CC a NASA races and et cetera. So I wanted to thank you for throwing that in there because. A lot of people forget about Summit Point, right? Used to be part of the Trans Am series back in the day.

You know, it’s kind of fallen down in the ranks, but they’re also seeing a resurgence now after 53 years of being open. So I really appreciated you doing that.

J.K. Kelly: That was my pleasure. I love Summit Point. I’ve been there many, many times myself.

Crew Chief Eric: So that being said, the flow of the book, it really does grab you right away.

Like I said, the first three chapters are really set the stage and then you start to interleave the exposition, right? For like the next 12 chapters or so. And it’s done in this flashback sort of way. It reminded me of how some TV shows and movies do it. It’s like, you’re thrown in the action. You’re going, what, what is going on here?

They’ve captivated you. They’ve drawn you in. And now let’s go and show you how we got there. And plays this bouncing back and forth again for like the next 12 chapters or so. So that led [00:45:00] me to my next question, which is, could you see Deadly Driver being turned into a screenplay?

J.K. Kelly: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. The beauty of that is, most of the reviewers, a lot of people that have read the book have told me, it reads like a movie.

It ought to be a movie. It ought to be a limited series. It ought to be something. I agree. When I write books, I see it as a movie in my head. I see it playing out in my head. I studied film. One of the side studies I did at Penn State was film courses, full circle, all the way back to the shitter lump, when I was in sixth grade.

My father allowed my brother and I and a family friend, a schoolmate, to make a video, make a movie essentially at the funeral. We had a casket, we had dry ice and buckets, we had all the spooky stuff going on. So I’ve always been a movie buff and I’ve always been interested in these that rotate around that.

Following everybody’s encouragement, I reached out to some folks in California. I met with some producers and directors who have given me notes on what I should do, what I shouldn’t do. They’ve encouraged me to talk to this guy, all this guy. There are people that. Claimed to have connections to Tom [00:46:00] Cruise and they’re trying to get the book in front of him because if everybody on the planet they could do something special, a deadly driver.

Cruz probably could. However, you’d have to read the book. I don’t see Cruz as Bryce Winters. I see him as Max Lerner.

Crew Chief Eric: I would agree with you on that. So Max, for those that haven’t read the book yet, is the person that really takes Bryce to the next level. He is the money behind the scenes, behind the team, the team owner, all that kind of stuff.

He’s, you know, he’s a German guy. I’d love to see Tom Cruz pull off the accent, you know, that’d be kind of funny.

J.K. Kelly: Well, remember though, he’s He did the Hatterboot. Well, I forget the name of the book, but Oh, Valkyrie. Yeah. Valkyrie. He did Valkyrie. And he didn’t lay it on too hard. Werner is true German, but he’s Americanized.

But he also has a dark side, comes out. And I think Cruise could really get his teeth into that. But there’s a million other people that would You can do a fantastic job as well.

Crew Chief Eric: I’d love to see the cast and call that like to see who they pick. I envision this Bradley Cooper type playing a Bryce, you know, the brown hair comb over boy next door sort of racer, [00:47:00] right?

J.K. Kelly: Well, there’s all kinds of things. When I wrote Uncle Pete, I pictured Sam Elliott. Everybody knows Sam Elliott most recently from ATV. That’s

Crew Chief Eric: the vision I got from him too. Yeah,

J.K. Kelly: Sam Elliott kind of character. But here’s a stretch that isn’t really a stretch. Chris Pratt and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Chris Pratt married Schwarzenegger’s daughter.

How about Pratt as Bryce Weiners, and Schwarzenegger as Weiner? He’s got the accent.

Crew Chief Eric: That could work. Although I don’t know how serious I would take it at that point because I’m a big Schwarzenegger fan, but every movie I watch, I consider them a comedy. So, you know,

J.K. Kelly: yes. And then, well, then you got to go to who do you cast as Kyoto?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. She’s

J.K. Kelly: a Japanese lawyer. I mean, who do you put in that role? There’s a tremendous amount of exquisite actresses that could play that role. But you know what happens when I’ve learned from visiting with these producers and people who have talked to me about the film either as a film or a limited series or as a regular series, once they buy the project.

They do whatever they want to do with it. If all of a sudden, Kyoto, they don’t want her to be from Japan anymore. They [00:48:00] want her to be Hungarian or Australian or whatever. Or Max.

Crew Chief Eric: Suddenly Bryce becomes English and he’s really Jason Statham. And it’s the transporter.

J.K. Kelly: No, that can’t happen. But Max Werner doesn’t have to be Max Werner.

It could be Max O’Malley. It could be, he could be from anywhere. There are certain parts of the world, South America, for instance. They are rabid formula love fans. So having Max be from Sao Paolo works. Yeah. What kinds of things you can do. If you remember the book starts out at Sochi, but what’s happened since Sochi first, Sochi lost its race and then Putin decided to go.

Apeshit in Ukraine. And so here we are. So as I’ve developed the limited series scripts, pilot limited series scripts for that, we’ve moved out of Russia. I have a lot of friends in Russia. I love the Russian people. They’re great folks. I’ve been there many times, but I don’t want to give any attention to those.

Crew Chief Eric: I can see you easily dropping the hungoro ring in its place, you know,

J.K. Kelly: no, we actually, there’s something with me and my French counterparts. And so we’ve gone, [00:49:00] we’ve gone, now we’ve gone to Paul Ricard.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, nice.

J.K. Kelly: Yeah. So we’ll see how that goes because actually, if you know where Paul Ricard is, very, very close to Marseille.

And I don’t want to get shot if anybody’s listening from Marseille, there is a strong underworld in Marseille. There is a French mafia, so to speak, the same way there is in Russia, same way there is in South Philly. It’s

Crew Chief Eric: an easy conversion.

J.K. Kelly: Yeah. It’s so, it’s very easy to do some of the tweaking that I needed to do.

Crew Chief Eric: And it also helps too, because Bryce. And his third home is on the French Riviera. So him being in France makes it a little easier too for movement, probably for filming, things like that. So there’s a lot of upward possibility there.

J.K. Kelly: Yeah. He maintains a residence in Monte Carlo because, you know, the tax laws there, I think the rule is you have to have a residence six months in a day in order to get the tax breaks.

Crew Chief Eric: And there’s mention of that in the book too. He says, Oh, I got to be here for X amount of time.

J.K. Kelly: That’s what he does.

Crew Chief Eric: So that actually leads into the next question, you know, without giving any spoilers or talking about the sequel or anything that, what [00:50:00] is Bryce’s future? What do you think? What do you think?

What can you share with us?

J.K. Kelly: We know certain things happen in the book. We know there’s a, there’s a happy ending, so to speak. Despite his injuries, he will be able to come back and the following season, he’ll be trying some new things. I really don’t want to lay too much out there. I, I really believe that if people read Deadly Driver, they’ll care about Bryce.

They’ll like him. I want to follow his career. And then we’ll find out what happens to them next. They hang in there and they enjoy the first book. The other one will be out.

Crew Chief Eric: So outside of your own books, do you have any recommended reads for our audience?

J.K. Kelly: God, right now everything Jack Carr has written has been super hot.

Jack is a former Navy SEAL who worked for the government in a lot of other capacities after he left the SEALs. He’s been reading since he was fourth or fifth grade. Believe the story is his mother was a librarian. This guy fell in love with books at an early age. He’s read thousands of books and he took everything he learned from those books and has written the series that was turned into a limited series on Amazon called The Terminal List.

So anything [00:51:00] Carr’s done has been great. As I said earlier, Fields of Fire just came out. That’s Ryan Steck. That’s his debut novel. He’s an editor that I work with on a couple of my books. Great guy. The scariest thing that gets me is I run into people every day that say, I don’t read. I’ve read books since high school, and the only reason I read it in high school is because they told me I had to.

I get it. If you work all day and all night, you’ve got your other things going on in your world, you just don’t have the bandwidth or the time, you’re exhausted and you can’t do it. I understand. Some people say I don’t have time to sit there. I can’t sit there and read a book. I can’t pace through it, whatever.

There’s solutions. There’s audible books. Audible has opened up a whole new world to people who, truck drivers, somebody who works with their hands, somebody who can put it on their speakers, headphones, and just go for the ride.

Crew Chief Eric: And Deadly Driver’s Available is an Audible book as well.

J.K. Kelly: Yes it is.

Crew Chief Eric: And another top tip for folks that don’t have time to flip the old paper pages, you can also leverage your local library and apps like Libby as well [00:52:00] as Hoopla and be able to digitally take books out from the library.

So there’s no cost. So if you’re looking at it going, Oh man, some of these services are pretty pricey. I’m already oversubscribed my budget. So there are some free ways to get ahold of these books. So there’s some awesome resources

J.K. Kelly: there. There’s also Kindle.

Crew Chief Eric: Yep.

J.K. Kelly: Some people want to read on an airplane, but they don’t want to deal with the paper and the book, et cetera.

So you can read a Kindle. Something that everybody asked me for was 60 years old. My eyes are failing. How about large print? Guess what? We got deadly driver and large print. That’s available as well.

Crew Chief Eric: So JK, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to share that we didn’t cover so far?

J.K. Kelly: Your podcast.

It’s great. Ever since I’ve met you offline, I’ve listened to a bunch of the shows. The most recent one I think was with Andrew Bilgrim, which opened up a whole new world for me, cause I didn’t know that much about him, but it was a fascinating interview. A pretty relaxed conversation. It wasn’t really an interview.

It was a conversation that you had. So I enjoyed the way you did that. If you’re looking for thrillers of The Deadly Driver, I’d say pick up Ryan Steck’s Field of Fire. Go to the races, if [00:53:00] you’ve not been, or you have been in a while. Go check it out. For us, it’s getting to be the fall, and the east coast, the leaves are starting to change already.

That’s probably because of the drought more than anything else. Races are going to close the garage doors pretty soon, so take it in the last races you’ve got. Enjoy yourselves.

Crew Chief Eric: Author J. K. Kelly lives in Media, Pennsylvania with his wife Lisa and continues a never ending pursuit of the next adventure. He has just finished another thriller, The Blood Compass.

All six of his books are available on Amazon in either paperback, Kindle, or Audible formats. And you can learn more about J. K. and his work by visiting www. jkkelly. com or following him on social at jkkellybooks on Instagram and Twitter, or by emailing me. It’s at author JK Kelly on Facebook, and you can always look him up on LinkedIn as well.

So JK, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show and sharing your journey with us. I actually really am looking forward to the history of EP and some of the other books you have coming out, and I’m [00:54:00] really excited to know what happens with Bryce and if there’s some crossover with some of your other characters like Matthew Christopher and others that are in your series.

So the best of luck on your subsequent novels, and we look forward to reading

J.K. Kelly: them. Thank you. Really enjoyed it.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider [00:55:00] subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2. 50 a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers fed on their strict diet of fig newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
00:27 JK’s Early Life and Passion for Cars
01:29 From Journalism to Racing
06:11 Journey with VP Racing Fuels
11:22 Writing Career and Inspirations
17:18 The Making of Deadly Driver
25:32 Bryce Winters: The Formula One Super Spy
28:23 Bryce’s Dilemma: Balancing Racing and Government Demands
29:04 A Heartbreak and a New Love Interest
29:29 Bryce’s Humble Beginnings and Racing Heroes
30:35 The Unique American Formula One Driver
31:04 Bryce’s Hidden Car Collection
32:58 The PRI Show and Bryce’s Future in Racing
34:50 The Evolution of Motorsports and EVs
38:03 The Future of Racing and Bryce’s Career
44:59 Deadly Driver: From Book to Screenplay
50:29 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Bonus Content

Learn More

Deadly Driver

Jetting off to Monte Carlo…speeding through the tight turns of a mountain road en route to an evening at the casino…what could be more exhilarating? After racing in a grand prix, Bryce Winters boards a luxury yacht to bask in the limelight and mingle with celebrities, only to find a gun to his head…

From the rolling hills of Vermont to some of the world’s most powerful cities, Winters is thrust into improbable adventure, riveting intrigue, and elusive romance. The question remains: can he navigate around the dead-ends in a maze of CIA manipulation and entrapment—or will he fall prey to the sinister forces of underworld intelligence?

THRILLER AUTHOR LAUNCHES THE LOST BIRD

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (November 30, 2023) Novelist Jim “JK” Kelly today announced the launch of his latest book, The Lost Bird, a crime thriller novella about a World War II B-17 that’s been taken.

“From the first time I watched the film Memphis Belle, I was hooked,” said Kelly. “I love writing thrillers, and I chose to use a vintage B-17 as the centerpiece in this one to honor the brave souls who manned them and to introduce readers who might not know anything about them to what was a vital part of winning World War II.”

The Lost Bird is Kelly’s seventh work of fiction, and it is the story of two modern-day families, criminals without conscience, and an awkward partnership formed in an attempt to find the missing plane. Kelly’s past works include the Formula One/CIA spy thriller Deadly Driver, The Export Series, Found In Time, The Lost Pulse, and the autobiography Fuelin’ Around.

“I believe readers will get caught up in this story and its characters,” Kelly continued. “Even before today’s official release, two Hollywood film producers requested the screenplay we’ve developed.”

For more information, to request a review copy or an interview with the author, please write to Info@JKKelly.com. To order a print or Kindle version of THE LOST BIRD on Amazon click here.

And you can learn more about JK and his work by visiting www.jkkelly.com or following him on social @jkkellybooks on IG and TW, or @AuthorJKKelly on Facebook or look him up on LinkedIn.

JK joined VP Racing Fuels, a then-fledgling company with fewer than ten employees. Over the next 30 years, he helped transform VP into a global powerhouse. From delivering fuel to Jungle Jim Lieberman and John Force, to outmaneuvering corporate giants like Elf (now Total) in the motocross wars, JK was at the center of it all.

One of his proudest moments? Beating Elf at their own game when they tried to change AMA fuel regulations to favor their product. VP’s chemists responded in a week with a better fuel, proving that agility and grit could trump deep pockets.

Writing the Road: Fuelin’ Around and Beyond

After retiring from VP, JK returned to his first love—writing. His memoir, Fuelin’ Around, chronicles the wild ride of building VP from the ground up, packed with business lessons, motorsports lore, and behind-the-scenes drama. It’s not fiction—it’s the real deal.

But JK didn’t stop there. He dove into thrillers with Found in Time, a time-traveling Marine Raiders saga, and Deadly Driver, a motorsports espionage thriller starring Bryce Winters—a character inspired by legends like Mario Andretti.

“I write fast-paced action,” JK explained. “I don’t waste time describing the blinds or the beer bottles. I want readers to feel the adrenaline.” JK’s characters often pull from real life. Bryce Winters, for example, starts in the rally woods of Vermont and climbs the motorsports ladder, echoing Andretti’s dirt track roots. Supporting characters are often composites of people JK has met along the way, adding authenticity and emotional depth.

He credits authors like Dan Brown, Tom Clancy, and James Patterson for shaping his style, though he proudly writes without outlines – letting the story evolve organically.

JK Kelly’s journey is a testament to reinvention, resilience, and the power of storytelling. Whether he’s racing hearses, fueling champions, or crafting thrillers, he brings passion and precision to everything he does. As JK puts it, “Writers just write when they can. It’s in our blood.”

Stay tuned for more on Deadly Driver and JK’s upcoming sequel, Switchback. And if you’ve ever dreamed of turning your motorsports passion into a career – or a novel – JK’s story proves it’s possible.