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The Spirit of Everywoman: Rediscovering Eleanor Velasco Thornton

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March 17, 2026

The Spirit of Everywoman: Rediscovering Eleanor Velasco Thornton

For more than a century, the Rolls‑Royce Spirit of Ecstasy has glided ahead of some of the world’s most exclusive automobiles – an icon of elegance, speed, and mystique. But behind the legend lies a woman whose real story is far more compelling than the myths cast in silver. In a recent You’re Listening to Radio Revel “Keyhole Witness” episode, listeners were invited into the life of Eleanor Velasco Thornton, a woman who moved through Edwardian England with quiet brilliance, remarkable resilience, and a talent for navigating a world that rarely made room for women like her.

Photo courtesy Steve Purdy, Society of Automotive Historians (SAH)

Eleanor – born Nelly Thornton in Stockwell – grew up in a working‑class family where practicality was survival. Her father managed telegraph offices across Britain, and her mother earned extra income typing letters for neighbors. As one document notes, she was “a charming, competent, creative young woman… who thrived as a free spirit.” Those early years taught her precision, brevity, and the power of language – skills that would later make her indispensable.

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But Nelly wanted more than the narrow future offered by the Gray Coat Hospital Academy, where girls were trained for domestic service. With the encouragement of her neighbor Emma Velasco, a Polish elocution teacher who saw her potential, she left home at sixteen and reinvented herself as Eleanor Velasco Thornton. She tried acting and modeling in Chelsea’s bohemian Pheasantry, even posing for young sculptor Charles Sykes. Yet the artistic life didn’t pay the rent, and Eleanor soon turned to the practical world she knew best: clerical work. That decision changed everything…

Synopsis

Eleanor “Nelly” Velasco Thornton – long rumored to be the muse for Rolls‑Royce’s Spirit of Ecstasy – led a far richer life than the legend suggests, rising from a struggling London family to become a skilled telegraphist, actress, model, and ultimately a pivotal figure in Britain’s early motoring world. Her work at the Automobile Club and later Car Illustrated brought her into the orbit of John “Monty” Montagu, whose private commission of a small sculpture by Charles Sykes would later evolve, through corporate reinvention and mythmaking, into the famous Rolls‑Royce mascot. Though the evidence linking her to the emblem is largely circumstantial, her true legacy lies in her quiet, class‑defying professional success and the life she built before her death at 35 aboard the torpedoed SS Persia – a story far more compelling than any automotive myth.

Revel retired from active ESL teaching in 2014. But before that retirement, he spent 32 years in the profession. His last job was in a small, private academy in the North of Spain, an area he’d eventually move to after the hustle and bustle of New York City life.

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His work was a combination of helping kids with their school learning and teaching English as a Second Language; and in his retirement years, he’s found himself at the creative helm of “You’re Listening to Radio Revel“ podcast, a combination of memoir and audio drama.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome back listeners to your listening to Radio Revel. This week is a bit of a throwback episode. I’ve resurrected the Keyhole Witness series to tell a story of an English woman who lived in the late 19th, early 20th century. The story came to me through my fellow podcaster and virtual friend Eric of the Break Fix podcast.

He had someone reach out to him with the idea of elaborating a story about the woman who has been credited with sitting for the Rolls Royce mascot, known as the spirit of ecstasy. After researching this woman and the men she rubbed elbows with, I came up with this story, a kind of alternative look at the legend, as well as a bit more focused on the woman herself.

What I tell, I do not report. I merely tell. Welcome to a new Keyhole witness episode titled The Spirit of Every [00:01:00] Woman.

Nelly was lying on the rumble sheets of the unmade bed clad only in one silk stocking pulled up over her bent right knee. Her left foot crossed over that knee and her arm stretched to her toes in the gesture of putting on the other stocking. Though that stocking was tangled in the bed clothes to her left, maybe the next movement was actually lowering the left leg and removing the stocking from the right.

Was she to do this? She would be totally nude. Nelly would not reach over for that stocking, though her nose itched, but she wouldn’t lift her hand to her face to scratch. Charles was a very fussy man and right now concentrating deeply on the charcoal sketch. He was blending into his notebook. Nelly knew that if she broke this pose or something like an itchy nose, it would break that concentration.

He would, as he had in the past, snap at her and [00:02:00] scold her as if she were a child. Despite being only 16 years old, literally a child, Nelly didn’t like being treated as one. Eleanor Nelly scolded herself mentally. Your name is Eleanor. Nelly is gone. You left her behind when you left home, the day you came to live here, you were reborn as Eleanor Velasco Thornton, renowned actress and dancer.

Applauded on the London stage. Favored muse of Charles Johnson Sykes, famous sculptor and painter, Eleanor Velasco Thornton, the incarnation of Aphrodite. Ecstasy Incarnate Nelly didn’t share these thoughts aloud with anyone. She understood that they were childish, knew that she’d be laughed at, and again treated like a child.

Many of her fantasies of goddesses and ecstasy came from her own imaginings, her own escapism from her fairly strict struggling tradesman class upbringing. Some of her [00:03:00] musings arose from the acting and social etiquette classes she received from her neighbor, Emma. And yet this idle daydreaming, this self distraction from the boredom of sitting for Charles would become a line upon which she could peg her hopes and dreams for her future.

Nelly’s. Father Frederick was a particularly unimaginative man, educated in engineering, fresh out of school, and recently married. He procured a position with the l Clark Muirhead and Company Telegraph interest, a job that had him traveling about England and Scotland to oversee installations and repairs on telegraph lines.

When he was not out in the field, he was responsible for local offices and operators. This meant he was most often home in the summer when weather was less likely to take down lines. The closest Fred Thornton came to spending time with his daughter, Nellie was during those periods that he was home when he needed help at a local [00:04:00] office.

Telegraph operators were not a dime a dozen then an absence at one office or another meant that Fred would have to substitute. And when there were two or more absences, Fred would take Nelly and later her younger sister Rose, park them in the swivel chair, and have them attend to both the incoming and outgoing messages.

The girls knew the Morris code as well as they knew the alphabet they used in school.

Nelly caught onto the entire messaging thing, especially well as when her father was away. Her mother, Sarah Ann often drafted Nelly into her service, despite her parents having sent both Nelly and Rose to the subsidized Poor Girls School, the Gray Coats Hospital Academy. Money was almost always problematic in the Thornton home.

Sarah Ann kept a tight reign on the household books and Fred’s salary. Nearly met their needs, but she had finally taken on jobs herself. Sarah Ann was literate, [00:05:00] something many of her neighbors in the terrace housed neighborhood were not. She could read letters sent by local departments, and more importantly, she could draft letters in reply.

She had a Remington typewriter. Her husband had fixed from junk yard recovery, and she made enough money to comfortably supplement Fred’s pay.

So many in afternoon. On arriving home from school, Nellie would find a hastily written note on the table asking her to rush over to this or that neighbor’s house to take notes or to read correspondence or bring the typewriter there or pick it up to take it to another neighbor’s. Nelly became well acquainted with typing, grammar, spelling, and thanks to the telegraph work, the concise use of language, she hardly ever said more than was absolutely necessary to get what she wanted, and that talent helped her almost always get what she wanted.

What Nelly had most recently wanted was to get outta the Gray Coat Hospital Academy. [00:06:00] Nelly walked every morning with her younger sister, rose more than an hour through the foggy, damp streets of London from their tired terrace house in the Stockwell neighborhood up to the academy near Westminster Cathedral.

Nelly felt stifled, suffocated, a gray coat. Girls were only allowed to wear those name forsaken gray coats with those scratchy gray skirts. During the long days at school, they were shuffled from Bible class to cooking class to household cleaning class, back to Bible class with a nod towards the modern young woman employment possibility of clerical or shop work.

Most girls would end up taking a position that would begin with washing up in the scullery, perhaps move up to making beds, and finally graduate to polishing silver, maybe even simply a combination of the three. So most of the education offered a gray coat focused on preparing the girls for this. Nelly, though was quite sure her future would not include white aprons and raw hands.[00:07:00]

There were also days when there was no note on the table. When Rose and Nelly returned home after school, they would often find the house cold and empty. Frederick would’ve been called up to Scotland to direct the rehanging of wires or the replacement of broken posts. Sarah Ann would most certainly be somewhere else reading a letter that had come in the post this morning with a threatening looking coat of arms replacing the return address.

Or perhaps crafting response to that letter in reasonable language that the neighbor would not have used, nor would have known how to write out an empty, cold house was no problem. Right next door, the girls would find Emily, whom they called Emma, fussing about in her kitchen with a hot kettle ready on the stove, and a bit of bread and jam spread out on the table.

Emily Velasco was an exotic member of the Stockwell Terrace House community. Despite having a Spanish sounding surname. Eine was Polish. She had come to London with her [00:08:00] Ukrainian husband, mainly because it was in London that she could find clients for her ever burgeoning acting slash social Graces school.

While she and her husband Ralph plotted and planned the school, they would eventually open in Devon. Years later, Emily gave Lucian and poise lessons throughout the year to young artist recently arrived in London, Emma, who had no children of her own treated Nelly and Rose as if they were her special pets, her talented daughters.

She saw clearly that both had been blessed with physical traits that would be advantageous as they navigated their futures. Nelly was even in her early teens, a well-built, rounded out female who would certainly attract the attention of a man of some station, perhaps even a station above the strict terrace house station the girls had been born into.

In addition, Nelly was incredibly clever, obsessively organized, and a very quick study. The challenge was to rise outta the cast of the Terrace house, [00:09:00] perhaps find a path into at least one cast above.

Emma focused most of her efforts on molding Nelly into a modern woman. The suffragist movement was not something that could be ignored. Women were marching in the streets. Some were even throwing explosives here and there. Emma was fairly critical of most of the demands placed upon women by those whose main efforts seemed at times violent and always political.

Emma had no reason for a woman to dress like a man or go after a man’s job or even behave like a man. Women were women and should be allowed to be so and take every advantage afforded them as women over the men they would encounter in this modern world. Emma belief firmly that women possess the wiles and the arms necessary not only to survive, to defend themselves, but also to triumph without counting on any manly traits.

These were the ideas she infused into Nelly’s Open Mind. Being [00:10:00] clever simply meant that Nelly would be more capable of holding her own when men eventually entered the picture. Right around the time Nelly turned 16, she confided her frustration with the strict atmosphere of the Gray Coates Hospital Academy.

To Emma complained that the studies there offered such a narrow outlook on life, all bed making and Shopkeeping. Nelly asked Emma if she mightn’t suggest a way out outta the school out of her home where she was basically unpaid labor to her father or her mother, and out with a pathway to a future that fit Nelly.

Emma Hobnobbed with most of the artists who lived in the Bohemian Chelsea neighborhood in small flats in the ancient pheasant tree. That building that only decades earlier had housed the principal nursery for the exotic pheasants and live hunted animals shot at by the nobility. She enjoyed the company, especially of the actresses, models and dancers.

Three professions that women could [00:11:00] aspire to without much male obstruction. Although the aspiration to these always seemed to be considered secondary to respectful marriage and homemaking, these women were often discriminated by society as not much more than pseudo prostitutes, even so Emma thought Nelly might fit in with that Bohemian crowd, or at least get a start among them.

Emma first consulted with Sarah Ann, who knew her daughter was headstrong, obliging her daughter to take that hour long walk to the Gray Coat Academy that only restricted her growth as a person would finally end in an uncontrollable rebellion with a probable, unfortunate outcome. Sarah Ann agreed to allow Nelly to take a room at the pheasant tree in Chelsea.

Emma had vouched for others who lived in the complex, especially one Charles Robinson Sykes, a young artist then 27 years old, who was beginning to make a name for himself as a sculptor who might agree to serving [00:12:00] as a type of mentor or guardian to the girl while she got her feet wet. With her looks, Nelly might even take on work as a paid artist’s model for Sykes and other artists living there in this way begin to make a living for herself.

So it was that with her mother’s hesitant blessings and her father’s near total ignorance. Nelly only 16 years old, an age that many girls began looking for positions. Quit the Gray Coates Hospital Academy, moved out of her parents’ home and began her career as an actress, a dancer, and an artist’s model.

That last artist modeled, that’s what placed her on Charles’ bed in Charles’s apartments at the pheasant tree in Chelsea.

A knock on the door broke into Charles’s concentration and he groaned, no actually growled at the interruption. He shouted a distracted what in the direction of the closed door, which [00:13:00] opened, and one of his mates hesitantly, leaned in to tell Charles that Monty and sis were in the drying room asking after him.

Charles growled again. The mates softly closed the door. Nelly lifted her head slightly to make eye contact with Charles, who cursed and told her that he’d forgotten. Plans he’d made with some friends. She could get dressed. They were done for the day. Nelly was glad of that. She finally reached up and robbed under her nostrils with energy before she rescued her stocking from the sheets, pulled it on, then wrapped herself in the dressing gown.

She’d worn to the sitting. As she passed through the drawing room, she saw couples standing next to the fireplace who somehow seemed outta place in these apartments like nobility descending into the world of the pros. For a disagreeable, fleeting moment, the man noticed Nellie, but rapidly looked away.

The woman made a more careful assessment, but also turned away when Charles came in from the bedroom and greeted them. Nelly slipped out the main door of the apartment and climbed the stairs to [00:14:00] her own room that she shared with two other girls in the attic.

The shillings and pennies the unknown struggling painters and sculptors at the pheasant tree were able to pay. Nellie were far from what she needed to pay for that shared room. No matter how elegant her stage name Eleanor Velasco Thornton sounded. She’d only been called upon once as a stand in for a tableau, forced to wear a scratchy, woolen overcoat that smelled of grease, paint and sweat to pose without moving for 20 minutes.

While the comics and singers who had the lights brought laughter and applause from the audience. And Eleanor Velasco Thornton had only played the dancing with her younger sister. She had no moves and less rhythm. So despite all her mother’s lessons in home economy, if there were no earnings, there was nothing there to budget with, and Eleanor was near ruin.

Nelly whined about this to her mother one Monday evening as the two women did the [00:15:00] washing up. After a rare family dinner, Nelly’s father was smoking a pipe in the back courtyard, outside the kitchen door, and her mother reached over the basin to push the window shut, both to block the smoke and to keep their mother daughter conversation private.

Fred had not been approving of his oldest daughter’s move into the pheasant tree, which he considered the den of inequity in London. Sarah Anne began clanking the stoneware plates in the watcher to make a distracting sound from the words she meant only for her daughter to hear. See here, Nelly, I know how important it was for you to get out on your own.

I know you thought you weren’t going anywhere at Gray Coat. Now having one less tuition to pay has been a bit of a relief on expenses around here, but not enough that your father and I can support you in your current lifestyle, and especially not the lifestyle of an actress or a dancer. Ah, no. Sarah Anne held up a wet soapy finger to Nellie’s objection.

Your father is way too conscious for your excuses, so there’s no use [00:16:00] you asking me or him for any money. You need to take advantage of what you do have. Emma Velasco was not wrong in teaching you how a woman should navigate a man’s world, but the whole acting artistic path is evidently not working. You are a bright girl.

You know how to manage numbers. You’re articulate. You know how to read and write. You’ve been concise with your telegraph work for years. You’re almost obsessively organized. There isn’t a straw in your head. You’re all brains. Being cute, certainly helps. It might get the door open though it will probably open the wrong doors.

Most cute women end up naked in beds and not so that some men can project them into posterity. Look over on the cupboard there. I’ve left you a few pages from the Times. There’s ads in there, dozens of ads, looking for young women able to do the same things you can do. Write letters, organize papers. Use the Typewriting machine.

These are salaried jobs. You’ll make money doing them [00:17:00] without money, you know, you won’t get anywhere. And Nelly knew that Sarah Ann was right. It was unlikely Eleanor Velasco Thornton would ever actually support herself as a member of that clan of Bohemians who were likewise, nearly unable to support themselves.

If Eleanor was to move forward, it would be in the serious world where her natural, almost inherited practicality of thought would be her best advantage. Eleanor had drive and was smart enough to know when the road her drive was taking her down was probably not the one that would most directly take her to her desired destination.

Nelly, or perhaps now that it’s been nearly a year since she’s moved away from home, who she call her, Eleanor was sitting for Charles again. Though she wasn’t really sitting. She was standing in his bathroom leaning over the large tub towards a huge oval shaped mirror hanging on the tiled wall. This time, Charles had draped a long bolt of gauze [00:18:00] over her shoulders, suggesting some type of a mythological bathing gown, something to partially discover the inm modesty of a nymph at a pond in the forest and uncharacteristically.

As he sketched, he chatted with her asking her how her search for a day job had been going. Eleanor explained while trying to keep as still as possible in the somewhat uncomfortable lean that she’d been rising nearly every morning, buying the times, clipping an advertisement, getting dressed in her only formal dress and hat and shoes, interviewing for a position, or simply leaving a typewritten note in different offices about the city.

She was not especially enthusiastic today. The insurance office, the Scriveners shop, the hat manufacturers all had been polite, but none had sent word of employment. Charles Crypta, that’s too bad and kept on sketching. Once he’d finished up and told Eleanor that she could dress, Charles suddenly remembered something that he’d forgotten Again, not uncommon in his character.[00:19:00]

He told Eleanor that he had a friend who had just recently become a founding member of what would be some kind of automobile club in the city, and that the gentleman who was named secretary of this club, one Claude Goodman Johnson, was looking around for some clerical help to get the offices of the club up and running.

Charles asked Eleanor if she’d be interested, and she replied that automobiles couldn’t be any more mundane than insurance or women’s hats could even be something exciting. They were new and somewhat controversial. Charles scribbled out a note of introduction in his sketchbook and handed her the leaf.

And Eleanor planned to visit the offices the next day.

Eleanor was not. Claude Johnson’s first choice for Girl Friday. She seemed fairly young and had an A of frivolity that could just be perceived under an otherwise serious demeanor. She was also really attractive, something that could be problematic to his personal life. [00:20:00] Claude was still flirting about with a childhood sweetheart looking towards marriage, much to the chagrin of his parents who felt that they had educated him better.

Jessica, the girl in question, was a rather controlling and jealous fiance who would certainly have some sharp words to say about the hiring of a cute, well-developed adolescent as a secretary. Yet a certain stroke of fate intervened on Eleanor’s behalf the very day that Eleanor presented herself for the position as she sat at the table and demonstrated that she could indeed manage a typewriting machine.

Claude had a visit from one of the founding members of the automobile club, the esteemed John Montague, member of Parliament, son of the first Lord Montague Douglas, Scott of eu. John or Monte to his friends, had dropped in on club business and to steal Claude away for an afternoon drive in his Daimler automobile.

Looking over at that young woman clacking away on that infernal writing machine. Monte had the strange intuition that [00:21:00] he’d seen her somewhere before. Without making any connections. He turned to Claude and made a comment on how a good looking secretary certainly brightened up a drab office space.

Eleanor worked for Claude from 1897 until 1902. In those years, she proved herself to be an organized, intelligent woman with an uncanny talent for event logistics. Her work on the club sponsored famous 1000 mile trials in the spring of 1900 was hardly applauded enough from heading off local protests against motorcar, still considered by rural folk as a nuisance at the least, and a real danger to body and property at most to simply making sure there was petrol available along the route, as well as reserving hotels, restaurants, and catering services.

Eleanor naturally and effortlessly shined like any event planner. The better the job done, the more invisible [00:22:00] they become. The 1000 mile trials was a massive success for the Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland, and so Eleanor went almost totally unnoticed, but not totally. Soon to be second Lord Montague of Blu.

That is Monty who had, as a founding member of the Automobile Club, had an active role in the planning of the trials who participated with moderate success in the race. Well, he had noticed Eleanor and her tireless efforts to pull off this logistical challenge. Monty noticed how she always allowed the men at the planning meetings to think they’d originated an idea to do this or that when it had been she who had imagined the detail.

She always managed all the testosterone in the room with one or two carefully worded sentences. He noticed how she made her simple beauty into an effective tool for getting what she wanted from the men. He had also made the connection during a visit to the club offices with Sykes, who warmly greeted Eleanor, that he’d [00:23:00] seen her so scantily clothed in Sykes apartments about a year ago, an image he could and would super impose on the serious professional look She presented in the Automobile club offices.

Monty could certainly give the impression of a man of means, a member of the wealthy class who moves through life’s challenges with the confidence that a fat bank balance and secret business connections afford. But at the time, he was motoring about in his Daimler, impressing the other rich men in his motoring circle.

He was actually living off his father’s estate. Having been voted, a member of Parliament just a few years earlier, at least ensured that he could brandish his own reputation and he had plenty of influential friends, but the truth be known, and it was kind of known just around 1902, Monty found himself pretty much broke.

It was then when one of his friends, the newspaper man, Alfred Harms [00:24:00] Worth offered him an opportunity to make a living within the strict class expectations of his cast. Harms with was a sort of silent party all across the upper class ecosystem. Publisher of several very popular newspapers, beginning with the Daily Mail in 1896 and later, the Daily Mirror in 1902.

His journalism was renowned for its simple language and straightforward reporting of stories that were of interest to the plebe. Harm’s Worth had been instrumental in making sure the 1000 mile trials were a success, not only by providing popular positive coverage in his press, not even by participating himself with his motorcar, but by putting up much of the money needed to pay for the event at a time that the auto club was in the red.

When Monty let slip in an unguarded moment of soul bearing, fueled by tobacco and brandy, that he was tight for capital to continue his auto hobbies harms worth suggested creating a magazine, [00:25:00] the. Glossy magazines were not something new. There were magazines that covered all kinds of interests from ladies fashion to politics.

However, up to the date, no one had thought to create and publish a glossy magazine about automobiles. The idea was golden. The entire reason the Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland existed in the first place was to promote the automobile in the kingdom. What better way to do so than an illustrated rag with the latest news and information to convince a hesitant population to jump onto the auto Mobilist chassis?

Of course, as the man who would establish the advertising driven business model for the printed press harms worth was also thinking about the money he could make advertising cars and car related stuff.

Monty went about the business of starting up his foray into publishing in the same way he did everything. He turned to the people he knew. First, he spoke with Claude. The automobile club was now [00:26:00] fairly firmly established, was making some money, had caught the eye of the crown Prince, who Monty himself had encouraged into the burgeoning auto fever.

After five solid years of making the Club a solid foundation for both the industry and the political world, Claude had decided to move on having partnered with one Charles Stewart roles and ambitious young man, everyone called cs, who had a special flare for sales. Claude and Cs were to set up the first car dealerships in the realm.

And let’s face it, Claude would make a whole lot more money than the always struggling auto club was able to pay him. The physical offices of the club were moving. Everything seemed to be ripe for change the most. Claude could promise Monty was to place automobile ads in his new magazine. As Monty left Claude’s office, he stopped to chat with Eleanor who was sitting at the very table he had seen her at five years earlier.

Despite her hard work, her efficiency, [00:27:00] her capacity for solving problems, even before they became problems, Claude hadn’t even promoted her to her own office. She had become much more than a simple secretary, and yet here she was typewriting machine to one side of her desk and papers to the other.

Thinking it was an appropriate moment. Monty offered Eleanor a position at his magazine with a higher wage and her own space to do her logistical magic. Eleanor looked around at all the boxes prepared for the move of the office to Piccadilly realized that change was indeed in the air and accepted the job.

No one really knows when Eleanor and Monty started their affair. It at least had to have started soon after Eleanor’s taking the job at Carr Illustrated in 1903, Eleanor found herself pregnant and giving birth to her only child. A girl, Joan, who she held briefly after the delivery. Then immediately gave [00:28:00] into adoption.

Monty could not possibly recognize the child publicly. He was happily married to Lady Cecil Victoria, constant Kerr Douglas, Scott Montague. He was a member of Parliament. At some point, he’d become the second Lord Montague of ou. Eleanor could not become a single mother that would simply cast her into infamy.

She would lose her hard earned status. Her job, her connections, albeit superficial with the rich and powerful men, her lover rubbed elbows with. So Joan was given over to the Ierson, a lovely couple who became friends with Monty and his wife, lady Sis. A lady Sis was a woman who was always the even headed one in any room.

The wife who knew her husband garnished his walking stick elsewhere, but helped him keep it discreet. Sis would make sure that Monty took good care of his responsibilities to Joan, even if they were to be kept secret. Eleanor would later consider the decision to give up her child to have been the hardest she’d had to [00:29:00] make in her life.

But there it was done and over. She had chosen both her affair with the married man and her career as his at attache over the harsh realities of single motherhood in early 20th century England.

Monty for his part was entirely smitten by Eleanor. Though he loved his wife, had loved her almost his entire life. They had known one another since they were children. No surprise. Monty and sis were first cousins. After all. He was like so many privileged men of his time. The Manly bravado, the expectations of virility, a certain disdain for women in general.

It was almost expected of him that he would have an affair or two. He was a noble man. Or Well, he’d become a noble man on his father’s death in 1905. Moving so from Parliament into the House of Lords.

Now, you’ll recall [00:30:00] that Claude Johnson had partnered up with a CS roll to open automobile salons and sell the machines to, well-to-do Englishmen. Well, right around the time that Monty was packing up his papers and moving them from one governmental office into another, both Claude and Cs had met an automobile engineer by the name of Frederick Henry Royce.

His cars were well made, had a touch of the luxurious, and Claude and Cs. Saw how they could focus exclusively on Royce’s designs and stability to create an exclusive car fit for the exclusive buyer. The Rolls Royce became our thing, and Claude became the company’s first boss.

Monty. Now a Lord got caught up in the whole exclusivity idea. He’d been placing ads in his magazine for all kinds of automobiles with prices ranging from the affordable to prohibitive, and the new Rolls Royce Silver Ghost represented [00:31:00] the peak of prohibitive. Consequently, the Lord John Walter Edward Montague, Douglas, Scott, yes, Monty had to have one.

He was not the only rich man who had one, but he was one of the first.

Now, the Rolls-Royce car was so exclusive for many reasons. Uh, for example, they were designed with the latest and best concepts of automotive engineering available. Each car was highly personalized, nearly artistically created according to the personal taste and suggestions of the man purchasing the vehicle.

Every detail was planned, consulted, executed with the idea of creating the quote, best car in the world, a car that a king would drive. One detail, though, was not necessarily considered or perhaps was considered to be spoken, and that was the car’s mascot.

The mascot was actually a fancy schmancy [00:32:00] radiator cap. You could buy a Rolls Royce with a traditional though shiny stainless steel screw on cap to cover that access to the radiator. But that would hardly be all that exclusive would it? Monty certainly didn’t think so. He asked his friend Charles Sykes, if he couldn’t make a design of something that could be stuck on that boring cap, kind of like the figurehead of a ship.

Something that would symbolize the grace, the beauty, the stealth of the Rolls Royce Silver Ghost.

Sykes had been illustrating for Monty’s Magazine, car Illustrated for years now. Had painted portraits of the Rolls-Royce had actually drawn an entire series of Rolls-Royces, driving up to different places, the theater, the horse races, the country home. Sykes liked the idea of making some kind of stat for his friend and his playful side.

Had him pulling a box of old sketchbooks off a high shelf in his studio and looking for drawings of one special model he’d drawn years earlier. Special [00:33:00] because she had been his muse for a couple of years, especially ’cause she was quite stunning in the sketches. Special because she was Monty’s lover, Eleanor.

Sykes made a couple of drawings from his sketches. He settled on one that presented a young version of Eleanor leaning slightly forward, a gauzy bathing garment, like one worn by a nymph at a hidden forest pond billowing behind her. This nymph held a finger to her lips. Sykes hint to Monty that the lover’s affair would always be kept secret between the two friends.

Monty was delighted with the little bronze Statu Sykes cast for him, bolted it onto every Silver Ghost automobile he used for years. Sykes called the Stae the Whisperer.

Now, Monty was not the only man who wanted a figurehead bolted onto their fancy radiator cap on their exclusive Rolls-Royce automobile. As the manufacturer was so [00:34:00] dedicated to respond to each and every whim of the purchaser, other artisans sculptures were producing personalized mascots from comical police figures to downright nearly pornographic representations of human copulation.

That young automobile engineer Henry Royce was somewhat scandalized by the idea of a figurehead being bolted under the hood of his cars at all, but there was little he could do to prevent the habit. Men will be men and will want their symbols right up front where everyone can see them. Royce asked Claude Johnson, if anything shouldn’t be done to protect the prestige of the Rolls Royce Mark.

Claude had a quick and historic insight. He’d, of course seen Monty’s personalized mascot. The whisperer Claude had liked it, found it dignified of the Rolls Royce, though he found Monty’s dedicated poem to the statue. A little silly. I am a little silver fairy. Your mascot of many a mile, [00:35:00] bringing you golden hours, guiding you safely the wild.

Anyway. Claude consulted with Sykes, asked him if he mightn’t rework the design he’d done for Monty. Make it a more mature, stylized version of the whisperer to serve as the official mascot for the Rolls Royce. Something that would look good in silver, something like that. Statue in the Louvre, what was it called?

Winged Victory. About what? Head in arms please. And maybe a bit of discretion was needed, it might not be a good idea to keep the face of the Lord’s secret lover on a mascot that would represent the best of the best in Autumn over well. You get the message. Sykes loved the idea and got right down to work.

He resched the statue, simplified the gauze and shaped it more like wings. Pushed the arms back into that billowing cape, and considering it the most correct. Reworked the face to represent perhaps the only other woman in his life. He would consider his muse, his mother.[00:36:00]

The evolution was evident. Eleanor was only a base for the end design. She had been diluted outta the statuette. Rumors ran rampant among those who knew. Those rumors became urban legend, and yet truth be known, that mascot that started out as the spirit of speed and then became known as the spirit of Ecstasy, was a conglomeration of charcoal sketches of Eleanor’s, early sittings as a model, a marble statue in the Louvre and the artist’s own mother.

None of this actually mattered to Eleanor or anyone else for that matter. She was comfortably installed in a pleasant apartment near Hanover Square, could take a coach to work every day, or the nicest of frocks and jackets and shoes and hats that a professional woman could want. She was excellent at her job managing the offices of the magazine, and as time passed, she became indispensable to Monty.

As his responsibilities in the House of Lords became more [00:37:00] complex, especially as the war was becoming an unpleasant reality. Even in London, Eleanor was becoming more a trusted lord’s at attache than a publisher’s executive secretary.

Round about 1915, Monty Lord Montague of Blu was commissioned to travel to India to manage something to do with motor cars for the British armed forces. There he proposed to Eleanor that she accompany him, if not all the way to India, well, at least to Egypt. To those who would observe the trip would simply be a Lord unofficial business, traveling with his secretary.

To those who knew, including Monty’s wife, who continued to nod and then turn her head, it would be an opportunity for the two to be alone and not have to play act, at least not on the cruise across the Mediterranean.

Eleanor wasn’t all that keen to travel so far. She had become an avid [00:38:00] reader of the press the Times with her breakfast at home, the daily mail with coffee at the office, the daily mirror at tea in her parlor. She was horrified at any news from the front, frustrated with the stupidity of politicians and generals and noblemen and businessmen who caused and pushed this silly war forward.

She understood the cultural, social, even economic realities that surrounded the events but couldn’t find justification for the massacre of so many young men, and she was deadly afraid of those deadly U-boats. The Germans had developed a kind of boat, an underwater tank, a sausage made of iron, and armed with torpedoes, a vessel that could not be seen, that could sneak up on a boat and sink it in less time than a call for help might be heard.

Speeding away under the waves to attack another boat. The Mediterranean Sea was just beginning to see more and more of these U-boats. Eleanor did [00:39:00] not fancy being on a ship that had been targeted yet the promise of a cruise with her lover. A relaxed honeymoon like voyage across the Mediterranean, away from gossip and restrictions.

Well, Eleanor was a woman in love as well. She agreed to travel with Monty, at least to Egypt, then returned to London to continue to manage business. A car illustrated.

On Christmas Day, 1915, Monte and Eleanor boarded the SS Persia and rapidly settled into the routines of sea travel, discreet separate rooms and first class accommodations. The relaxed spirit of the voyage, a calm sea. The first five days, almost convinced Eleanor to change her plans and accompany Monty all the way to Bombay.

It was on the 30th of December as the couple were settling down to lunch that a German U-boat torpedoed the SS Persia. The torpedo blasted into the [00:40:00] steam boilers, one of which exploded on its own. As the ship began to sink, Monty and Eleanor rushed to Monty’s Cabin to retrieve the newfangled inflatable life jackets he received as a gift rushed back to the deck.

The SS Persia was tilting. Water was rushing about as well. Both Monty and Eleanor ended up in the cold Mediterranean Sea. Monty lost grip on his lover. Eleanor was gone. Monty was picked up three days later, clinging to the underside of an upturned lifeboat with other survivors.

Nellie’s. Father and mother would not see her die. They would both die before her. Her sister Rose, married a guy named Gordon. When Eleanor died, Charles Sykes got in touch with Rose and gave her the original mold he’d used to cast the whisperer for Monty as a memento of his sister. Once Rose died, [00:41:00] Gordon remarried.

Funny anecdote, someone broke into Gordon’s home once he’d remarried, and among the things stolen was that cast funny thing to steal.

Around 1910, Eleanor had stopped frequenting the pheasant tree, concentrating on her professional career, and so lost touch with Emma Velasco, the elocution teacher. Emma and Ralph finally moved to Devon and opened their acting school. Emma Velasco passed away not long after the war was over. CS rolls. The car salesman got a bit of air fever, traveled about in hot air balloons, then became the first private person to buy an airplane, one of the first people to fly with Wilbur Wright as a passenger in a biplane, the first pilot to make a nonstop return trip over the English channel.

He did not stop there with being the first though. CES rolls [00:42:00] was the first fatality in British aviation. Falling from the sky knows first when the boom of his bi planes separated from the chassis. His funeral procession was almost a state event in crowd size, at least.

Alfred Harms worth. The newspaper publisher survived Ellen Ho by seven years passing away in 1922 from a prolonged illness at first rumored to be syphilis, probably because of his reputation as a lady’s man later confirmed as a chronic blood infection he’d harbored for years.

Claude Johnson, the first CEO of Rolls Royce died just 11 years after Eleanor. He’d been poorly for a while, insisted on attending a niece’s wedding collapsed. Was rushed back to London and finally succumbed to pneumonia. Only days later in 1926. John Walter Edward [00:43:00] Douglas, Scott Montague, second Barren Montague of eu known to friends as Monty would live another 14 years after losing his lover.

His death at 63 and 1929 like Claude from Pneumonia would leave a single heir Edward at the time, only two years old. Fruit of his second wife, lady Sis, having passed away in 1866. Monty would remember Eleanor with a dedicated plaque hung in the eu. Abbey reading in memory of Eleanor Velasco Thornton, who served him to vote Lee for 15 years.

Frederick Henry Royce, the automobile engineer, was never a very social person, so that when in 1930 his health began to deteriorate, it was not considered odd that he worked from home and be cared for there. Despite this quiet home and work situation, Royce passed away in 1933 asking [00:44:00] specifically to only be remembered not to be heralded.

His wishes were respected. Charles Sykes, the man who sculptured the mascot of an elegant woman with a gauzy cape, leaning into the destiny ahead, would survive Eleanor another 35 years. For many of those years, he would personally cast and polish each and every spirit of ecstasy mascot ordered to embellish the radiator cap of a Rolls Royce automobile.

A quick afterward. Contemporary information about Nellie a Thornton, more popularly known as Eleanor Velasco Thornton is so sparse and mostly anchored to the men she worked with and around. It is also conditioned by the necessity of keeping her relationship with Lord Montague Secret. Conditioned by social morals and expectations conditioned by attitudes, [00:45:00] prejudices, envy, and gossip that would have made her life a hell had she not been discreet and clever as she evidently was.

In other words, there’s really not much about her. There is little or no indication in her time of her having been a particularly active member of any feminist or suffragist movement. Her climb in the professional world seems only to likely to have come from a combination of evident factors. She was indeed good looking.

She was clever. She had a particular background and upbringing that gave her the practical skills she could use within the limited opportunities. Offered a woman in the working world of the late 19th, early 20th century. In a heavily classist society. She had family and friends who supported her and encouraged her throughout her initial years.

She had context as well that obviously made her entrance into the work world easier.

She does seem to have been a self-made woman, but she was [00:46:00] also the servant of two masters, the chauvinistic male oriented world of Edwardian England. Open to her only through the men she kept company with and her own ambitions to rise out of the social position of the Terrace house neighborhood of her youth.

Perhaps at least inhabit the neighborhood of the class one step above her. Movement between classes in Great Britain wasn’t something that happened frequently.

And allow me to address the elephant in the room, the story of her being. The inspiration for the Rolls Royce mascot may very well be true, though I didn’t find reliable contemporary evidence of such. Just the same circumstantial detail I’ve used to tell this slightly more mundane story of the woman in her connection with the statue.

I personally think the general acceptation of the story of Eleanor being the model of the spirit of ecstasy is more a product of urban legend supposedly confirmed years after the actual events [00:47:00] combined with romantic marketing. I am not suggesting that she was not. I’m merely telling the story that I saw as I delved into what little information we have about her from her contemporaries.

Eleanor was definitely a remarkable woman, one who probably died too young. She was only 35 years old. Had she lived the track record she had until her death would no doubt lead us to expect that she would’ve accomplished much more, might even have lifted herself out of anonymity and into a respectable place in history that represented more substantially who she was, what she had done than the superficial story of posing for a luxury car mascot.

Eleanor was one of hundreds, no thousands of women struggling in a world that continued to consider them second class for having been born girls. Her legacy should be her personal success in life. That’s what I will remember of her now that I’ve told this version of her story.[00:48:00]

A beautiful, talented, clever woman, able to put men in their places, able to tell men what to do and get them to do it. Able to climb a professional ladder and all that without the men around her taking notice. Hats off to Nelly, Eleanor, Velasco Thornton. Artist, model secretary, executive secretary at attache to a Lord, the spirit of the successful 20th century every woman.

Cheers, Eleanor,

your you are listening to radio.

Listen, like, subscribe, and share.[00:49:00]

This episode is brought to you in part by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding.

Of motorized wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future. For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org. This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others.

If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsport and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up [00:50:00] for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports. Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent.

If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the episode.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Throwback Return: Introducing Keyhole Witness & the Spirit of Every Woman
01:10 Eleanor Poses for Sykes: A Muse, a Name, and a Dream of Reinvention
03:20 Growing Up Thornton: Telegraph Work, Typewriting, and a Working-Class London Home
05:55 Gray Coats to Chelsea: Emma Velasco’s Lessons and Nelly’s Escape Plan
12:48 Bohemian Reality Check: The Pheasant Tree, Barely-Paid Modeling, and Money Trouble
14:56 A Practical Pivot: Sarah Ann’s Advice and the Search for a Real Salary
17:40 The Automobile Club Breakthrough: Meeting Claude Johnson and Landing the Job
21:16 Making the 1000-Mile Trials Happen: Eleanor’s Invisible Genius Gets Noticed
23:15 Monty’s Magazine Offer: Class, Cash Problems, and a New Role at Car Illustrated
27:42 Secret Love & Secret Child: The Affair, Pregnancy, and Joan’s Adoption
29:58 Rolls-Royce Origins: Monty, Claude, and the Rise of the Silver Ghost
31:44 From “The Whisperer” to Spirit of Ecstasy: How the Mascot Was Really Made
36:56 War Years and a Dangerous Voyage: Choosing to Sail on the SS Persia
39:25 Torpedoed in the Med: The Sinking of the SS Persia and Eleanor’s Death
40:41 Aftermath & Legacies: What Happened to the People Around Eleanor?
44:38 Afterword: Separating Urban Legend from the Woman’s Real Story
47:16 Final Tribute, Credits, and How to Support the Show

Learn More

Want to learn more about the fascinating world of automotive Mascots and the stories, people and places that inspired them?

This amazing coffee table book introduces the reader to the “sculptures” known as mascots and hood ornaments.

Photographed “in the wild” by Michigan-based automotive journalist and SAH member Steve Purdy at concours events, special shows, junkyards, back yards, salvage yards, anywhere, and always in natural light.

ORDER YOUR COPY TODAY

The photographs are beautifully presented by the art-book specialists at M.J. Jacobs, LLC, and annotated with their stories researched by the author/photographer who then puts it all into context with other complimentary images. As an added touch, each book is autographed by the author!

Bonus Content

In 1897, she joined the newly formed Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland as assistant to Claude Johnson – later known as “the hyphen in Rolls‑Royce.” Eleanor quickly became the quiet engine behind the club’s operations. Her logistical mastery during the 1900 Thousand Mile Trial was legendary among those who knew the truth. As the transcript recounts, she handled everything from fuel stops to rural protests, “always allowing the men… to think they’d originated an idea” while she kept the event from collapsing.

It was during these years that she caught the attention of John Montagu – MP, motoring pioneer, and future Lord Montagu of Beaulieu. Their professional relationship evolved into a deeply personal one, though constrained by class, marriage, and the rigid expectations of Edwardian society. Their daughter, Joan, born in 1904, was quietly adopted to protect Eleanor’s reputation and Montagu’s political career. It was, she later felt, the hardest decision of her life.

Montagu adored her. Sykes admired her. Harmsworth respected her. And yet history nearly erased her.

The famous Rolls‑Royce mascot – first The Whisperer, then the Spirit of Ecstasy – has long been linked to Eleanor. The truth is more nuanced. Sykes did use earlier sketches of her as inspiration, but the final form blended multiple influences, including the Winged Victory of Samothrace and even Sykes’s mother. As Revel notes, “Eleanor was only a base for the end design… diluted out of the statuette.” Still, the legend persisted, fueled by romance, rumor, and Rolls‑Royce marketing.

What cannot be diluted is her impact

Eleanor became Montagu’s right hand at The Car Illustrated, shaping early automotive journalism. She moved effortlessly between bohemian artists and aristocratic motorists. She managed events, edited copy, soothed egos, and kept the gears of Britain’s motoring world turning. She lived independently, intelligently, and boldly at a time when few women could.

Her life ended tragically in 1915 when the SS Persia was torpedoed in the Mediterranean. Montagu survived after clinging to an overturned lifeboat for days. Eleanor – just 35 – was lost to the sea.

Her legacy, however, is not the silver figurine on a radiator cap. It is the life she carved out for herself in a society that tried to confine her. As the transcript concludes, she was “the spirit of the successful 20th‑century every woman” – a woman who rose by talent, grit, and grace, not by myth.

Eleanor Velasco Thornton deserves to be remembered not as a muse, but as a maker – of events, of opportunities, of her own destiny.

Guest Co-Host: Revel Arroway

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Rolling Twenties, Roaring Art: What French Automotive Mascots Teach Us About Heritage

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March 10, 2026

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Rolling Twenties, Roaring Art: What French Automotive Mascots Teach Us About Heritage

What can a palm‑sized sculpture teach us about the sweeping story of automotive history? According to Lauren Goodman, Associate Curator of Exhibitions at Revs Institute, the answer is quite a lot. In her recent presentation, Goodman peeled back the layers of her award‑winning exhibition “Rolling Twenties, Roaring Art: French Automotive Mascots”, revealing how these elegant hood ornaments illuminate the tensions, triumphs, and blind spots within the broader world of automotive heritage.

These mascots – once perched proudly atop radiator caps – may be small, but they carry enormous cultural weight. They reflect the artistry, technology, and social values of their era, and they expose the challenges facing historians who work to preserve and interpret automotive material culture today.

Revs Institute has long enjoyed a close relationship with renowned mascot collector Jon Zoler (seen below), whose extensive holdings include everything from American classics to rare French glass mascots by Lalique, Sabino, and others.

Mr. Zoler assisting with the exhibition preparations. Photo courtesy Lauren Goodman, Revs Institute

When the museum decided to refresh several display cases using pieces from Zoler’s collection, Goodman expected a straightforward project. Instead, she fell down the rabbit hole…

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

What began as a simple exhibition quickly became a research odyssey into the world of French interwar mascots – their creators, their manufacturing processes, their cultural context, and the surprising gaps in the scholarship surrounding them.

The final exhibition is visually stunning, but Goodman emphasizes that the real work happened behind the scenes: digging through period French publications, comparing auction catalogs, cross‑referencing collector guides, and identifying where decades of English‑language literature had repeated the same unverified assumptions.

Bio

Lauren Goodman is the Associate Curator of Exhibitions at Revs Institute in Naples, Florida. She is passionate about the history of women in motorsport and the preservation of historic cars. She presented at the 2022 Symposium on Lucy O’Reilly Schell; Schell’s team Maserati 8CTF is permanently on display at Revs.

Synopsis

In this episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsports Series, Lauren Goodman – Associate Curator of exhibitions at Revs Institute – discusses her award-winning exhibition on French automotive mascots from the interwar period, exploring their cultural significance and preservation challenges. The talk delves into the history of these mascots, their design processes, and the importance of documentation and collector-institution collaboration for future generations. She emphasizes the need for more cross-disciplinary studies and technological applications in automotive heritage, highlighting significant works and potential research pathways.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer family.

Crew Chief Eric: What can a small sculpture tell us about the big questions of automotive heritage in her award-winning exhibition?

Rolling twenties, roaring Art, French automotive mascots at the Revs Institute, Lauren Goodman reveals how these elegant ornaments, once perched proudly in the hoods of cars, embody the tensions and triumphs of preservation, design and cultural memory. They may be small in size, but they carry enormous meaning sparking debates about how we honor and interpret the past.

Lauren Goodman, associate curator of exhibitions at the Revs Institute in Naples, Florida, joins us to share her insights, passionate about the history of women in Motorsport. Today, she invites us to consider whether these mascots, these miniature works of art, might point us towards new directions in understanding automotive [00:01:00] heritage.

Stay tuned as we explore how the smallest details can spark the biggest conversations.

Lauren Goodman: Thank you. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. I feel very important right now. Thank you very much. If we haven’t met, my name’s Lauren Goodman and I am here in my capacity as the associate curator of exhibitions at Revs Institute.

Representing Revs. I’m very excited because last time I was presenting here in 2022, I was working a different job and just volunteering at Revs on the weekend. So I was only here in my capacity as a huge nerd instead of as an official representative of Revs Institute. So I’m gonna give you about a 20 minute presentation about interesting findings I had while working on an exhibition.

I wanted to talk to you about French mascots. Mascots are the fancy waves saying hood ornament much the way. Concur is the fancy way of saying car show, specifically French mascots of the interwar period between World Wars one and two. Revs Institute is [00:02:00] fortunate to enjoy the friendship of Mr. John in Zoler, and he’s one of the foremost collectors of mascots of all types in the world.

You may have seen some of his collections, if you’ve ever been to the Auburn Core Dusenberg Museum, where he has a lot of beautiful American examples on display in the past. He’s also lent us his lovely glass mascots, so not just lik but. Sabino and Che. Just beautiful examples. And Mr. Zoler also self-publishers catalogs of his collections, which is just a real boon to having documentation.

So in 2024 with Mr. Zoler’s collaboration, our team at Revs decided to refresh some of our display cases with some of his beautiful mascot. And what began as a fairly simple display became instead my own looking glass, and I, as Alice dug into the wonderland of French mascots from the interwar period. I’d like you to come on that journey with me.

I’m happy to say that the resulting exhibition is beautiful on even a [00:03:00] little bit educational. In fact, you could see here we were able to put all the information on a website, QR codes and the display cases. So if anyone was interested, they could drill down and discover more about each specific piece, see a video about it.

Pretty proud of that. And even some other materials that illuminate some of things going on, design wise, culture wise, economy wise at the time in France, that would’ve influenced the design of these mascots. Pretty cool. So if you have ever put together an exhibition. You understand that the final installation is only the tip of the iceberg.

The bulk of the labor is spent in suffering, or it’s also pronounced research. I thought after I did all that work, maybe I should find a way to compile and share my research so future generations can pull from it for their own uses. So I wrote a lit review. It’s very fancy and very long, and my mom is very proud of me.

My mom. So more importantly, when I was writing [00:04:00] about what I found about mascots, I began to realize what was missing. So that paper, yeah, it’s about automotive mascots, but it’s also a paper about where automotive heritage is losing time in the corners compared to other heritage organizations and disciplines.

Now, let me say now, up front, I’m not assigning any blame. There’s no malfeasance here. We’re all passionate about these automobiles and their associated automobilia. I simply used mascot collecting as a lens through which to view the automotive heritage ecosystem. So the paper helped me understand and elucidate.

My own work and my own mission at the museum. So I’ll spend a little time sharing some of the points from the paper. I’m not gonna go over the whole thing, but I just wanna spark some more conversations about our future and the future of these objects that we love First, some clarifications. Since the exhibition focused mostly on accessory mascots, they form the bulk of this discussion.

But some of these findings apply to mark specific designs for high-end manufacturers like automobile [00:05:00] farming, for example. And although mascots were produced in a range of prices and quality, I was focusing really on the ones that I was displaying, which are the upmarket pieces. They were typically cast in bronze using the very complicated lost wax process, and then coated with silver, and even occasionally gold.

They were prized by collectors even then, meaning that many pieces enjoyed a protected life on a desk or a shelf instead of on the radiator cap of a car. And there are of course mascot examples that predate 1914, but the golden age for accessory mascots. Aftermarket mascots really began in France after World War I and peaked during the 1920s and early thirties.

Eventually, streamlining and underhood radiators made the mascot an old fashioned accessory. So by 1938, the Paris Salon had practically no mascots on display, on the automobiles on the show floor. So where does one begin researching these objects? Especially in the English language? I identified three [00:06:00] major works published in the late seventies that became the source for most of the later literature in English.

And you’re probably gonna recognize some of these names. We are indebted to these authors, and the literature in the eighties and nineties relies heavily on these works. To paraphrase Don Caps, the difference between fiction and history is footnotes. So in these three books, for example, you’re lucky to find a list of sources at the end, let alone an EndNote.

But the absence of those things actually makes sense when you consider the following. These authors were creating the literature. No one had bothered to write about it before. It was either a tacit knowledge, it was trade knowhow. So those who are writing about it, especially if they wanted photos, often had to negotiate access to privately held collections.

These authors had an audience in mind and that. Was enthusiasts and collectors. These were the people driving the demand for information. They weren’t necessarily demanding an academic bibliography. The [00:07:00] next major author emerges in the mid nineties. Michel LaGrand is so important. You can really divide the literature into a pre LaGrand era and a post LaGrand era.

Although some of his work is only available in French, the captions are really short, easy to read and translate, which is why he’s still a major source for those writing in English today. LaGrand first began by reproducing period catalogs, period sales catalogs. Then he began photographing mascots and ephemera from private collections.

Authors in the present day are still largely enthusiasts and collectors who draw heavily on LA gra and the three major works from the late seventies. Now, the magic of the internet allowed me to search contemporary French periodicals for more information about the mascots that I had on display and those who designed them.

In my paper, I make some really nitpicky points about provenance, contrasting primary sources with the later English literature. As I scoured the primary sources, I wondered why hasn’t the scholarship been done before? And there are a few major [00:08:00] reasons for that. One is the participation of collectors.

These are key collaborators, but they may feel they risk devaluing an investment piece. If new research casts a shadow on what was said in the auction catalog, there is risk as well. And sending their collections out for public display or research, it’s reasonable that a private collector would want to avoid risk.

The acquisition and maintenance of mascots like any other collection represents an investment of creativity, time, money, and the collection itself contributes to the collector’s own happiness. The most obvious solution, I think would be for collectors to plan what happens with their collections after their lifetimes, while continuing to enjoy them in the present.

By collaborating today on a plan with a public institution such as a museum or an archive, the collector can be assured that these mascots will be held in trust for future generations. These institutions have a duty of care for their collections, but they don’t assume financial risk or reward based on authentication and [00:09:00] research.

That is because collection items do not appear on the balance sheet as an asset. If you are a museum, I think the next typical barrier is an echo chamber. Now cross pollination between automobile, heritage and other disciplines from the humanities and social sciences that would equip automotive historians with better tools and encourage experts from other fields to conduct research on automobile.

For example, the 1970 sources do make reference to the Anier School of Sculpture and its impact on French bronze production, but the subsequent literature kind of dropped the ball on that. It doesn’t take up that thread again, which is really interesting when you consider that there are numerous collector guides and art historical texts on the Maier School of Sculpture and its artists such works date back all the way to the seventies, and the most recent major one I could find was from 2007.

And finally, I think it’s also the novelty of our field. The phrase automobile heritage is itself fairly new. In fact, in the scope of human history, the [00:10:00] car itself is fairly new. The Turin Charter, the conservation charter for most historic cars was adopted in 2013, which is nearly 50 years after the Venice Conservation Charter addressed the heritage of architecture and our built environment, the mascot as worthy manifestation of automotive material culture.

That may be an idea that takes time. As opposed to people thinking it’s a mere collector’s hobby. Here’s the crux. These obstacles, I believe, are symptomatic of a larger issue. Automobile heritage is still the purview of private collectors and enthusiasts. We don’t have an academic market for automotive history like other disciplines.

I’m talking about the market where the publisher parish imperative creates volumes of peer review journals. And where tenure tracks, endowed chairs and research grants underwrite the research. Rather, the automotive historian today makes his or her living by teaching in another specialty, by working in another field entirely and devoting his or her free time or retirement years to the topic, or by researching in authenticating for auction houses and collectors.

[00:11:00] Now it’s this less instance that’s the most potentially problematic enthusiasts and collectors rely on auction catalog. Which in rely on the writings of enthusiasts, collectors, and it becomes a vicious circle. Future scholarship should aim to break this particular feedback loop. I think about this a lot in my work as a museum.

Professional museums must maintain the public trust. We cannot status satisfact, which we only hope to be true. And if we cannot provide the funding for academics to draw them to automobile heritage, then we’ll have to pull information from other disciplines and find ways to apply it to what we do and to cars.

In my paper, I then turned my attention to other disciplines. Maybe they had something to teach us about French mascots. I wondered what I might find, but surely, surely it was too much to hope for an art historical book. That covers a topic as niche as bronze art foundries in 20th century Paris. Mad voila.

Here it [00:12:00] is. Dictionary of bronze art. Foundries in France is one of the most important works in this space by Luis Be Leal. It incorporates previous scholarship in French and was made available in English translation in 2015. Leal helped me understand something that had been bothering me as I researched mascot.

One of the central issues in English language literature is identification and attribution, and oftentimes the different people involved in making a mascot that would be people like the artist, but also the modeler, the fabricator, the editor, the chaser, and the retailer, and the associated marks on these pieces would get conflated.

English language catalogs have used dubious language when attributing mascot. To the point where a reasonable person might believe the artist was a central part of the manufacturer, and that the final piece received an intervention by the artist himself, the reality is murkier. So we’ll jump right in with one example from Leal and this particular case, the role of the Fa k and French.

[00:13:00] And I’ll just read aloud the quote here for anyone who can’t see. This is a quote from Lab, LeBron’s book, an editor of Art bronzes, also called himself a manufacturer, Fabricant. When he ran a factory fabrik, a term which designated a company where semi fine products are completed for marketing. The casting operations were very generally carried out by an independent foundry man who delivered the raw bronzes to the manufacturer who would handle either in his own workshops or by calling on molders and the final chiseling and patina operations.

Large houses like Continental Lure and Pinedo, which have always subcontracted their foundry work are therefore excluded from this study. Now if you are by any chance somebody who has read a lot of auction catalogs about mascots, you know the term company Continental and Lily Ever, ’cause they later merged, are often attributed as foundries in the literature.

And already we could see here in art history, they say that’s simply not true. Furthermore, the introduction of the term Fab K to the literature in English is [00:14:00] important. There were enough self-described fab camp in the late 19th and 20th century Paris, that they had their own trade organization with their own professional standards.

Understanding their role sheds new light on issues of attribution. For example, at the premises of the fabricant, the separate pieces delivered by the foundry would be assembled by the chaser, as stated in the previous paragraph, since several designs were being assembled at a given time, a system of numeration with letters and with numbers would indicate to the chaser which pieces together.

These numbers are therefore nothing like a print number, and do not give us any idea of the number of additions produced of a particular mascot. However, it does stand to reason these small marks could be useful for the authentication of mascots. Labone dictionary addresses the changing relationship between artist and foundry in 20th century Paris.

There was an industry of smaller foundries and these enterprising artists who were also creating multiple editions of their pieces. Now, these same topics are actually briefly mentioned by Michelle Gronk, the major author in in [00:15:00] the 1990s about mascots. He even addresses some of these enterprising artists, editors, and there were a number of small craft foundries, not fine art foundries, but craft foundries and the 11th r and d Mall of Paris that created both say, bronze light fixtures and fittings.

And also mascots as a sideline. Here clearly is an area where more cross pollination between art history and automotive history would be very fruitful. Now, historical study is not the only way we can learn more about mascots. New breakthroughs in technology have already been applied to bronzes produced in France in the 19th and 20th century.

Two studies available in English deal directly with the use of new technology to help with the provenance and attribution of friends Bronzes. They often use the handheld x-ray fluorescence spectrometer, which is a non-invasive and effective way to determine a bronze sculpture’s artist boundary, even date of casting.

And I think it’s an ideal framework for beginning to apply some of these [00:16:00] new technologies to things we already are familiar with and love. I will pause here to say, I’m sure there is a keen listener in the audience who is tapping their foot and thinking when is the Q and a? ’cause Lauren is missing some very important French mascots.

And I say. Fear not gentle listener. We are now at the automotive mascots of Lale. I’ve saved them for last because they’re the exception that proves the rule literature on lale glass mascots has long benefited from that very cross pollination between the worlds of the automobile and fine art like mascots.

Generally. The first major work in English on the lake appeared in the seventies and was aimed at the private collector. Lik made a variety of decorative objects for the home and office. So numerous collectors’ guides mentioned automobile mascots just as they would VAs or picture frames and table settings.

Yet these guides cite not only previous lite guides by 1988, they were also citing automotive mascot sources in their literature. Conversely, when Gigi Weiner devoted a two volume work [00:17:00] to Ali Mascots, he drew on the wider literature of decorative art collection and art history. In addition to our literature on automotive mascots, this cross pollination means that Ali mascots are better documented than all other French mascots combined.

So what, well, as I begin to think about it, I wondered perhaps the beauty and desirability of the Lille pieces are enough to account for its robust documentation. But I also began to consider is lite so well documented because it is popular or is it popular because it is so well documented? McClin, who is one of the ER texts in the field reproduced the mascot listings from L’S 1932 catalog, and this became a major point of reference for subsequent lite collector’s guides.

Furthermore, Ali’s entree to the world of mascots through a CI commission in 1925 is well documented. And lik had an exclusive sales agent in the UK from the early days, meaning there was always sales literature published in English. As small oar [00:18:00] mascots are not likely to have sales records to establish provenance, so sales catalogs are therefore the most common tool for identification.

Generally, if sales literature is the main source for authentication of mascots, and if collectors prefer pieces, which can be authenticated. Then trends in collecting are driven by availability of information as much as if not more than the inherent aesthetic qualities of the objects collected. This is evident in the sheer number of sources in the current literature about mascots that reproduce pages from sales catalogs.

So what does this mean for the future of these mascots? Well, I hope I’ve demonstrated that documentation creates value. And that we can create more documentation almost instantly just by drawing on work already published in other fields like art history. I believe that when scholars and other disciplines see their work cited in our publications, they will be enticed to focus a little more on cars.

More documentation will create information which will [00:19:00] drive collector confidence, thereby increasing market demand. The demand itself will create prices that justify spending more labor, therefore money on research and authentication. Herein is the one caveat I’ll say, as with fine art, this upward spiral may put the price of mascots beyond the reach of all, but a few enthusiasts.

A smaller handful of collectors will become even more important for the research and preservation of mascots as material culture. As the collections become larger and collectors become older, it seems likely that just as with fine art, our public institutions become the necessary destination of these pieces.

Anticipating this, collectors and institutions should begin collaborating now in the present about what will happen to these beautiful mascots in the future. Such collaborations between collectors and institutions exist already in the world of fine art. Recipient institutions. Work closely with scholars who in turn publish work that expands on our collective understanding of the fabrication, history, [00:20:00] conservation, and social import of material culture.

The collector is not necessarily the first person to own an object. But a collector who plans to give his or her collection to a museum is in a very real sense holding those objects in trust for future generations. The current collector of significant automobiles and automobilia is now faced with the same dilemma that has long weighed on the collectors of Titian, Picasso and Calder.

Are these works purchased for my own pleasure, a financial investment for myself and my descendants, or are they important material culture of which I have been merely the steward? And if so. Who should be the next steward? Thanks very much.

IMRRC/SAH PROMO: This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports. Spanning [00:21:00] Continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike. To share stories of race drivers race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls, and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. To learn more about the center, visit www.racing archives.org.

This episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images. To safeguard as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of [00:22:00] motorized wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future.

For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports.

And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org. We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Lauren Goodman
01:43 The Journey into French Mascots
03:26 Research and Exhibition Insights
04:39 Challenges in Automotive Heritage
08:33 The Role of Collectors and Institutions
15:25 Technological Advances in Research
18:36 The Future of Automotive Mascots
20:48 Closing Remarks and Credits

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Mascots or “hood ornaments,” if we’re being less French about it, flourished between World War I and World War II. In France especially, the 1920s and early 1930s saw an explosion of creativity. Artists and foundries produced mascots in bronze, silver, and glass, often using the complex lost‑wax casting method.

These were not cheap trinkets. Many were luxury accessories, prized as much for their artistry as for their automotive flair. Some never touched a car at all, living instead on desks and shelves as objets d’art.

But by the late 1930s, streamlining and under‑hood radiators rendered mascots obsolete. By 1938, the Paris Salon featured almost none.

Photo courtesy Lauren Goodman, Revs Institute

Lauren identified a recurring issue: the foundational literature on mascots was created by collectors, not academics.

The earliest major English‑language works appeared in the late 1970s. They were groundbreaking – but they lacked citations, footnotes, and academic rigor. Later authors relied heavily on these early books, creating a feedback loop where assumptions hardened into “facts.”

Why does this happen?

Collectors control access to many of the most important pieces.
Auction houses rely on existing literature, even when it’s flawed.
Automotive history lacks an academic ecosystem — no tenure tracks, no dedicated research funding, no peer‑reviewed journals on the scale of art history or archaeology.

As Goodman puts it, automotive heritage is still largely the domain of passionate amateurs, not institutional scholars.

To move forward, Lauren argues, automotive historians must borrow tools and methods from other disciplines – especially art history.

One breakthrough came from a surprising source: a 2015 English translation of “Dictionary of Bronze Art Foundries in France” by Elisabeth Lebon. This work clarified the roles of artists, foundries, fabricators, and fabricants (manufacturers) in early 20th‑century Paris.

This matters because many English‑language mascot catalogs misattribute pieces, conflating the roles of sculptor, foundry, and retailer. Leal’s research shows that companies like Contenot et Lelievre and Pinedo, often labeled as “foundries,” actually subcontracted their casting work.

In other words: the mascot world has been mixing up its credits for decades.

Photo courtesy Amazon, Lauren Goodman, Revs Institute

Lauren also highlights the potential of modern tools like handheld XRF spectrometers (seen above), which can analyze the metal composition of bronzes without damaging them. These methods are already used in fine‑art authentication and could revolutionize mascot research.

Imagine being able to identify:

which foundry cast a mascot
when it was produced
whether it’s a period original or later reproduction

All without removing a single patina.

If most mascots suffer from sparse documentation, René Lalique’s glass mascots (above) are the opposite. They are the best‑documented mascots in the world — and Goodman believes this is no coincidence.

Lalique’s popularity may stem not only from his artistry, but from the fact that:

his catalogs were widely published
his work crossed into the fine‑art world
English‑language sales literature existed early
scholars in decorative arts embraced him

This cross‑pollination between automotive and art‑historical scholarship created a virtuous cycle: more documentation → more collector confidence → more demand → more research.

Goodman wonders whether other mascots might enjoy similar prestige if they received the same scholarly attention.

Lauren closes with a challenge – and an opportunity. As prices rise and collections grow, private collectors will play an increasingly important role in preserving mascot heritage. But they cannot do it alone. Museums and archives must work with collectors now to plan for the long‑term stewardship of these objects.

Just as fine‑art collectors see themselves as custodians of cultural heritage, automotive collectors may need to embrace a similar mindset.

These mascots are not just decorative accessories. They are artifacts of design, engineering, culture, and memory. And they deserve the same care and scholarship we give to paintings, sculptures, and architecture.

Lauren’s work reminds us that automotive heritage is more than engines and sheet metal. Sometimes the smallest objects – a leaping greyhound, a winged goddess, a glass falcon – can spark the biggest conversations about how we preserve and interpret our past.

And perhaps, by looking closely at these tiny sculptures, we can chart a better path for the future of automotive history itself.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

Other episodes you might enjoy

Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:

Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-war American Road Racing (2006)
Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed (2009)
Formula One at Watkins Glen: 20 Years of the United States Grand Prix, 1961-1980 (2011)
An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500 (2019)

This content has been brought to you in-part by support through...

Latimore Valley: Where Memory Fuels Motorsport Heritage

IMRRC

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March 3, 2026

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Latimore Valley: Where Memory Fuels Motorsport Heritage

In the rolling hills of Adams County, Pennsylvania, a quiet fairground once echoed with the roar of engines and the cheers of spectators. The Latimore Valley Fairgrounds, first opened in 1925, began as a lively rural festival with mule races, trapeze artists, and even airplane rides – a thrilling novelty for small-town Pennsylvanians. Yet it was the introduction of automobile racing that transformed Latimore into a cultural landmark, bridging rural tradition with the modern age of speed.

The debut fair was not without controversy. A police raid in 1925 underscored the tensions between wholesome agricultural exhibitions and the temptations of gambling and vice. To survive, organizers turned to auto racing. By 1927, Latimore boasted a permanent speedway, drawing crowds with big cars fashioned from stripped-down Model Ts and Chevrolet innovations. Racing became both entertainment and experimentation, a grassroots culture where mechanics and hobbyists tested their ingenuity on dirt ovals.

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By the late 1920s, economic pressures and shifting entertainment trends dimmed Latimore’s lights. The Great Depression forced closures, though the grounds remained a hub for livestock auctions and community markets. Racing briefly revived in the late 1930s, but tragedies like the death of young driver Leroy Swaggart became part of local lore. Ultimately, the rise of Williams Grove Speedway and the onset of World War II sealed Latimore’s decline, relegating it to the ranks of Pennsylvania’s “ghost tracks.”

Bio

Alison Kreitzer is Director of Collections at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing in York Springs, Pennsylvania. She earned her Ph.D. in the History of American Civilization from the University of Delaware in 2017.

Synopsis

This episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsports Series, delves into the history and community heritage of the Latimore Valley Fairgrounds in Adams County, Pennsylvania. Starting from its inception in the 1920s as a fairground and dirt speedway, the site experienced decline before being revived in the 1980s by the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing (EMMR) as a vintage race car exhibition venue. Led by Alison Kreitzer, director of Collections at EMMR, the narrative details the impact of institutional memory in preserving cultural heritage, highlighting the role of grassroots efforts and the Williams Grove Old Timers. The story encompasses the socio-cultural dynamics of rural America, including moments of innovation, racial exclusion, and revival efforts. The episode also emphasizes the importance of preserving motorsport history through community engagement, oral histories, and the ongoing activities at Latimore Valley and the EMMR, ensuring the legacy and passion of motorsports continue to thrive.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer family.

On this episode of the Logbook We’ll Journey into the Heart of Motorsports, history and community heritage. This story begins at the Latimore Valley Fairgrounds in Adams County, Pennsylvania. A place that first roared to life in the 1920s and thirties as a local fairground and dirt speedway. Though time brought decline, the spirit of racing never truly faded.

But by the 1980s, members of the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing stepped in, reviving the dormant track and transforming it into one of the nation’s first dedicated vintage race car exhibition venues here. History isn’t just remembered. It’s lived through the thunder of engines in the passion of enthusiasts across generations.

At the center of this narrative is the power of institutional memory, the collective knowledge, stories, and experiences that guide [00:01:00] preservation, programming, and community connection. And leading us through this exploration is Alison Kreitzer, director of Collections at the EMMR, with a PhD in the history of American Civilization for the University of Delaware.

Alison brings both scholarly insight and deep dedication to preserving Motorsport heritage. Together we’ll uncover how memory shapes legacy, and how Latimore Valley became a living bridge between the past and the present.

Good afternoon. Today I want to take you on a journey spanning nearly a century of Motorsport, history, community engagement, and preservation. This story centers on the Latimore Valley Fairgrounds, a site located in Adams County, Pennsylvania. That evolved from a vibrant local fair in the 1920s through decades of dormancy to its revival in the 1980s as one of the nation’s first vintage race car exhibition tracks.

But this presentation is about more than just the rise and rebirth [00:02:00] of the historic speedway. It’s a story about institutional memory, the collective knowledge that organizations accumulate over time through both historical documents and artifacts. As well as informally through storytelling and mentorship, Latimer Valley exemplifies how this institutional memory built from the shared experiences of its community can shape the way cultural heritage is preserved and interpreted.

At the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing or EMMR, we see this every day. Our mission extends beyond preserving physical artifacts. We strive to safeguard the stories, the human connections. And the living traditions that define motor sports culture. The emergence of the Latimore Valley Fair in the late 1920s offers a revealing case study of rural life in Interwar America.

Both the activities on the race track and the events surrounding the fairgrounds mirror the broader cultural shifts and tensions. Unfolding across Pennsylvania at this time. The [00:03:00] Latimore Valley first opened in August, 1925. It was the vision of Robert B. Nelson, a York Springs resident who transformed his private property into a bustling public fairground.

That first fair was a lively spectacle, a four day celebration featuring glee clubs, live bands, trape artists, roller skating champions, and displays of modern consumer culture. Like automobiles and furniture, visitors could enjoy mule races, stroll the midway, or even take an airplane, ride, a thrilling novelty for Royal Pennsylvanians in the 1920s.

Yet the fair debut ended dramatically. The Lebanon Daily News reported a state police raid during the Saturday of the fair. Seven people were arrested and officers confiscated roughly $800 worth of gambling equipment and merchandise. Latimore wasn’t the only regional fair to attract the attention of the state police.

In 1924, [00:04:00] Pennsylvania had banned gambling and immoral entertainments at publicly funded fares. Critics complained that what had once been wholesome agricultural expositions were turning into spectacles of vice with alcohol, gambling, rig games, and burlesque shows becoming common Midway entertainments.

Many fair organizers, including those at Latimore, sought new ways to attract visitors without running afoul of the law. One of the most effective and popular solutions was automobile racing. Throughout the late 1920s, fairground associations across the state began hosting auto race. On their existing horse tracks, the combination of speed, noise, and local talent proved irresistible transforming motor racing into a major attraction throughout South Central Pennsylvania.

This enthusiasm for technology centered hobbies reflected a larger transformation in rural life. In 1914, only about 7% of Pennsylvania farmers owned automobiles. By [00:05:00] 1921, that number had risen to 72%. Automobiles were reshaping not just transportation, but culture. A 1925 Harrisburg Telegraph reporter remarked quote, nearly everyone owns an automobile these days, and nearly everyone craves speed.

Americans modified their passenger cars into trucks, tractors, campers, and increasingly raced cars. Fairs like Latimore became a natural stage for technological tinkering in the pursuit of new speed. Records determined to recover from the setbacks of the initial 1925 Latimore Valley Fair Coordinators announced their plans to construct a permanent racetrack for future events.

Organizers sent letters to local elites attempting to entice area residents to buy stock in the Latimore Valley Fair Association for $50 per share. By 1927, the Fairground Speedway was complete. The Latimore Valley Fair hosted auto and horse races under the promotion of the Dolphin County Auto [00:06:00] Racing Association.

The event offered $1,000 in prize money, a remarkable sum for the time amounting to nearly $19,000. Today, the race drew notable entries like the Chevrolet Special driven by CH Rule, who also happened to be the president of the Pennsylvania Bar Association. Racing even then attracted a fascinating mix of professional and working class enthusiast.

Henry Ford’s Model T played a central role in the development of grassroots racing, affordable and widely available. It provided an entry point for spying racers. By the 1920s, a thriving aftermarket industry had emerged, offering parts to increase the power and performance of the humble Model. T mechanics and hobbyists stripped down cars, removing fenders, lights, and unnecessary weight to create sleek, cigar shaped racers known as big cars, innovations from the likes of the Chevrolet Brothers.

Such as high compression cylinder heads and improved camshafts turned everyday [00:07:00] engines into the competitive racing machines that competed, uh, at Latimore and other area fairground tracks. Drivers worked out of garages and barns fabricating by hand. Safety features were minimal. Creativity and courage were essential.

This was the backyard mechanic culture where racing was accessible and experimental. While the interest in automobile racing brought many local residents together at the Lamore Valley Fairgrounds, the site also reflects a more complicated truth. Community spaces often mirror the social, racial, and ethnic divisions of their time.

In 1927 and 1928, the KKK held at least two major events at Latimore. A 1927 advertisement for a clan picnic promised amusements of all kinds for everybody. End quote. These amusements included baseball games, foot races, live music, fireworks, and notably the burning of what the clan claimed would be the largest cross ever ignited in [00:08:00] Pennsylvania.

The following year, the clan returned to Latimore to host a six day fair featuring daily entertainments, dancing and onsite camping. These were not isolated occurrences. Membership records preserved in the Pennsylvania State Archives estimate that by the mid 1920s, nearly a quarter of a million Pennsylvanians belonged to the clan.

That Second Air Clan found support among many native born working class Americans. Tapping into nativist fears over immigration, job competition, racial and religious differences, organized crime and other perceived threats to white Protestant identity. These anxieties were widely felt across the nation and contributed to federal policies such as the Johnson Reed Act of 1924, which imposed strict quotas on immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe and barred immigration from most of Asia.

The clan of the 1920s promoted an ideology that was intensely racist towards African Americans, as well as anti-Catholic, [00:09:00] anti-Semitic, and anti-immigrant. At the same time, its leaders sought to normalize the organization by presenting it as a community service network, helping members find employment, offering mutual aid and hosting family oriented social events with food, entertainment, and recreational activities such as those hosted at Latimore.

By acknowledging this history, we better understand how places like Lamore Valley were shaped, not only by moments of celebration, innovation, and community building, but also by the exclusionary forces that define much of American society. During the 1920s, historians have shown that African-Americans were largely barred from full participation in mainstream automobile racing during the interwar years.

Even exceptionally skilled drivers such as Charlie Wiggins were systematically shut out of fairground dirt tracks and major racing venues. In response to this exclusion, groups such as the Indianapolis Colored Speedway Association were [00:10:00] created to have opportunities for black drivers from 1924 to 1936.

The Colored Speedway Association organized a 100 mile race for African Americans at the half mile track at the Indiana State Fairgrounds, known as the Golden Glory Sweepstakes. This annual event quickly became the premier national stage for African American racers, showcasing extraordinary talent and determination in the face of widespread discrimination.

One of the earliest documented racing events for African American drivers in Pennsylvania took place at Arden Downs Fairground, which is located in Washington. It’s about 30 minutes south of Pittsburgh on July 4th, 1927. The holiday program drew prominent African American racers from as far away as Detroit and Chicago.

A year later on Labor Day 1928, Arden Downs made an remarkable leap. The track hosted an integrated field of 40 black and white drivers competing together [00:11:00] on its half mile oval. Local African American undertaker Quinn Banks surged to an early lead before collision with Fence, took him out of contention, allowing white driver Tony Boyle to take the checkered flag.

Coverage in the black press celebrated the event as a sign of racial progress. The Pittsburgh Courier reported that quote, competent color drivers match their wi skill and courage against Ottawas of the other group, and the comparison was favorable. Yet this moment of integrated motor racing in Pennsylvania was short-lived.

Arden Downs does not appear to have hosted similar interracial contest after the 1929 season, and there is no evidence that Latimore Valley ever held such events. By the late 1920s, the Timore Valley fairgrounds, like many small, rural, fair sites, were struggling to remain financially viable, declining attendance, increased competition from larger regional fairs and shifting entertainment trends all took a toll.

In 1928, the property [00:12:00] was put up for public sale, 26 acres with a half mile track, grandstand, stables, and several exhibit buildings. Yet not a single bid was made a sign of the growing economic uncertainty gripping the region even before the Great Depression fully took hold. Throughout the early 1930s, the fairgrounds passed through the hands of several owners, each attempting unsuccessfully to revive racing and generate steady revenue.

Their difficulties were far from unique. During the depression, many local racetracks either closed or temporarily disappeared altogether. Families had fewer resources for leisure activities. And promoters face rising insurance costs in declining gate receipts at Latimore, both the automobile races and the annual fair were suspended in the early years of the Depression.

Yet the grounds did not sit idle. As farm prices plummeted, Latimore became an important site of practical day-to-day exchanges. Local farmers and residents gathered here for public sales, livestock [00:13:00] auctions, and community markets. These years illustrated a lotti more like many community fairgrounds adapted to changing circumstances.

By 1935, a new generations of organizers were determined to revive the fair. This also included reviving the automobile races that were held there. Drivers from across the eastern United States met in 1935 to compete for modest purse money, and a mission was set at just 10 cents a price that reflected both the desire to make the event accessible and the continuing economic strain of the depression.

But again, the revival was not without local controversy. This time, LATI Moore’s new owner, Bruce Wagner, faced community backlash when he held races on Sundays. He was charged with quote desecration of the Sabbath and fined $4 a relatively small sum, amounting to about $90 today, but significant in symbolism.

Wagner’s prosecution fell under Pennsylvania’s longstanding blue [00:14:00] laws, which dated back to the colonial time of the 1740s. These laws were still largely in effect during the 1930s and restricted commercial and recreational activities on Sundays for religious observance. Racing at the Latimore Valley Fairgrounds peaked in the period of 1937 to 1939.

During this period, promoters hosted races roughly every other weekend resulting to about 10 races per season. The races drew large crowds, eager to see the local competition. The track operated as an outlaw venue independent of the American Automobile Association, and became a hub for a diverse cross section of Eastern drivers independent tracks.

Lake Lamore Valley played a dual role in the racing ecosystem. They offered local drivers a place to learn and hone their skills, and they provided an opportunity to earn money outside the tightly controlled AAA circuit. The distinction between independent and AAA racing was not always clear. Cut. Many AAA [00:15:00] drivers raced under assumed names at Outlaw tracks to supplement their income while avoiding fines or disciplinary action from the governing body.

Keep in mind that they also race motorcycles at Lamore during that period. So if you think the big cars were bumpy, um, I can’t even imagine what it would’ve been like to race. A motorcycle during that period to think about the drivers that were competing in this period of the late thirties. A case study that is good to kind of illustrate these local independent drivers is Vic Naman.

Like many of his peers, he relied on a local car owner to fund his racing career. NAM and ZR two was owned by Leonard Redding. Who operated an auto repair garage in nearby Shippensburg Redding supported a two car team during the late 1930s. He’s shown in the top right, uh, with the team car, the ZR one, driven by Elmer Norris.

Norris and Naman, along with their contemporaries, often served as their own mechanics At the races, independent drivers had to be inventive, [00:16:00] adjusting on the fly, patching cars after crashes, and experimenting with setups to gain even small advantages on the track. Like many of his peers, Naman raced it, several independent tracks across central Pennsylvania, traveling from Lancaster to Lebanon to the Harrisburg region throughout the racing season.

Oral histories play a vital role in preserving community memory, yet they also can diverge from the verifiable facts over time as stories are retold and reinterpreted through generations. A telling example of this at Latimore can be found in the case of racer Leroy Swaggart. The 19-year-old racing novice died at Latimore when he blew a tire and crashed into a tree.

Swagger’s story became part of Lattimer’s local lore. Just one day earlier, he had married his sweetheart who witnessed his fatal accident from the grandstands. Over time, Swagger’s accident became intertwined with explanations for the Speedway decline. To this day, MMR members [00:17:00] consistently used this story as evidence for why big cars stopped racing at the track after the 1939 season.

At some point, a museum volunteer even wrote on the bottom of the photograph of Swaggart killed at Latimore in 1939, and you can see the handwriting right there. It’s a little blurry on the slide today. However, contemporary newspaper records confirm that Swagger’s death actually took place in 19 37, 2 years earlier than the collective memory suggests.

This discrepancy illustrates how institutional and community narratives can shift sometimes unintentionally blending fact and fiction. And with our conversations this morning, I think it’s also relevant that we’re reading 21st century responses to things such as accidents and thinking through safety onto this period of the 1930s.

Because the newspaper coverage from the 1930s focused on the sensationalism surrounding his age and his recent marriage, his untimely death does not appear to have [00:18:00] significantly impacted the 1937 racing season or to have created a critical response. Over changes to track safety. The closure of the Lamore Valley fairgrounds at the end of the 1940 season was most likely influenced by notable factors such as the opening of nearby Williams Grove Speedway, known as the Ascot of the East Williams Grove was a purpose built facility that quickly became one of the premier racing venues on the East coast.

And I’ll show my sprint car bias in this room and say, I still think it holds that status today. Unlike Latimore. Williams Grove regularly sanctioned AAA races and consistently attracted top tier drivers from across the region. The Grove offered significantly higher purses, drawing both competitors and spectators away from the smaller fairground tracks.

Its modern amenities and central location made it a natural magnet for race fans effectively eclipsing local venues like Latimore. Lamar’s decline was compounded by the broader context of the [00:19:00] late 1930s and early 1940s. The onset of World War II restricted rubber and fuel supplies, curtailing racing events.

Lamore was unable to sustain regular racing even before the federal government officially banned all auto racing in 1942. In the decades following the war, Latimore largely returned to practical community uses. The fairgrounds hosted livestock auctions, public sales, and other local gatherings. While the track itself fell into disuse, Latimore joined the ranks of Pennsylvania ghost tracks.

Remember primarily through the stories told by drivers and spectators who had once gathered there even without formal preservation. The fairgrounds lived on through these oral histories, but also through the personal collecting of individuals who had attended races there. Family photographs, newspaper clippings, racing trophies.

Fair ribbons and ticket stubs were carefully saved each a tangible reminder of excitement and adventure experienced at Latimore. [00:20:00] This kind of grassroots preservation reveals the powerful impact that shared experiences can have on individuals and communities. In the large scope of racing history landmark’s impact is minimal.

However, the fair and Its Speedway was memorable to the people who had experienced it firsthand enough so that they took the effort to save and preserve these mementos from the fairgrounds. In some cases, for over 50 years, these informal archives later proved invaluable in guiding the tracks reconstruction and interpretation.

Many artifacts eventually found a permanent home at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. Allowing the new generations to connect with the history stories and spirit of Latimore Valley. The photographs are of Drivers Vic Nomans on the top right. The dairy bottles are there because in the 1930s, the local dairy crawls.

Dairy had a truck, and the dairy truck became the ambulance for the speedway. So if a driver was hurt, crawls, dairy, generously then transported the injured driver [00:21:00] to the local physician or maybe a nearby hospital. For many racers and fans who grew up hearing stories about racing in this period of the twenties and thirties, Latimore and other Ghost Treks became symbols of a history worth preserving, and it was precisely the sense of nostalgia and responsibility.

The desire to keep the spirit of places like Latimore Alive that inspired new generation of racers to take action by the 1970s. Williams Grove Speedway promoter, Jack Gunn wanted to honor racing pioneers and preserve the rich history of Williams Grove Speedway. He envisioned uniting past and present members of the racing fraternity through the formation of a new club called the Williams Grove.

Old-timers well-known drivers, Dwayne Carter, Joey Chitwood and Cliff Griffith were among the club’s early supporters. Within a year, the Williams Grove Oldtimers had grown to over 375 members. Charter members of the group hailed from over 10 different states. The group published their first newsletter in April, [00:22:00] 1975, stating their mission and vision for the social club quote.

We’re very glad to have you in the cockpit with us. You are now a charter member of what is about to become one of racing’s finest organizations. The Grove Oldtimers. With its inception, we hope to bring you and all of our members nostalgia, surrounding methanol memories and castor oil charisma of the fabulous dirt track past.

To do this, we have to enlist your aid in obtaining the whereabouts of old time drivers, mechanics, and car owners. After all, this is what this club is all about. We want to get these greats together and bestow long and belated honors upon them. Members mingled with racing legends at the early conventions held at Williams Grove Speedway.

Attendees spent the weekend camping at the track, enjoying barbecue picnics, watching old racing movies and bench racing. They hosted track time for vintage race cars, interviewed former drivers and displayed their personal collections of [00:23:00] racing memorabilia in an old barn located off turn, one of the speedway.

One of the early participants of the Williams Grove Old Timers was a local sprint car driver named Lynn Paxton. Popular with the fans. Paxton captured multiple feature wins across Pennsylvania’s toughest circuits, including Williams Grove, port Royal and Seals Grove during the late 1970s. He was hardly an old timer, but he had a keen interest and enthusiasm for history.

He had already acquired several of his own vintage race cars by the late 1970s, including a 1947 Miracle Power special driven by his personal racing hero, Tommy Haner with his established connections within the racing community. An interest in racing history. Lynn was a natural fit to become a leader in the developing Williams Grove old timers.

When Jack Gunn died in 1980, the future of the old timers was in jeopardy. Since the group operated out of guns, Williams Grove office [00:24:00] members worried that the tracks knew owners once support the club. A small group of members led by Lynn Paxton recognized that the old timers was more than just a social group, that they were a group that had an important role in documenting Mid-Atlantic racing history.

In 1981, the Williams Grove old timers were formally established as a Pennsylvania educational nonprofit. The vision of the newly formed board of directors was ambitious. They wanted to create a living museum where history could be experienced, not just displayed. They hoped to achieve this goal by building both the permanent museum and an exhibition track.

As Williams Grove Oldtimer President Carl Schweigert envisioned quote, the exhibition track will not only serve the needs of those acquiring and restoring antique race cars, but together with our Planned Museum of Automobile Racing history will help fulfill our ultimate purpose of preserving and displaying the history of American automobile racing for the benefit of the general public, and will enable us to present [00:25:00] operating examples of this history.

While the group started searching for a site for the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, they also began actively collecting donations of historic race cars and other artifacts related to motor racing history. The board of directors first approached winds growth Speedway about purchasing land for a proposed racing museum when the tracks owners declined.

Mel Paxton, Lynn’s father. Recommended an alternative, the long abandoned dirt track at the Lamore Valley Fairgrounds. Mel had deep personal ties to the site, having raced there in the 1930s and attended the fair all the way back to the early 1920s as a trial. The revival of the Lammore Valley fairgrounds truly began then in 1982 when the old timers purchased the historic property.

While they envisioned Latimore as the future home of their museum, their immediate priority was creating the dedicated exhibition track for vintage race cars. As swagger explained, the [00:26:00] exhibition track at the museum will be the first permanent facility of its type in the United States, devoted solely to the exhibition of antique racing machinery, and our ownership of the facility will guarantee its continued existence.

All the work was done by members and volunteers, organized work parties to begin clearing and restoring the old racetrack. Early in the process, they discovered that previous land surveys of the fairgrounds were inaccurate. One of the turns actually extended beyond the property line to faithfully reconstruct the historic oval.

The board of directors had to approach the neighboring farmer and negotiate the purchase of an additional two acres. EMMR members then installed wooden guardrail around the track, built bridges over Latimore Creek, constructed pavilions and restored the original house in small barn on the property. In 1983, members held their first open house at the fairgrounds.

They wanted to showcase the revitalized speedway, but weren’t quite ready yet for vintage [00:27:00] racing. The event featured a static display as well as 1938 Lamore Valley Speedway Track Champion at Stein, who paced the oval in a vintage 1930 sprinter local racing greats such as Stein Tommy Henner ship. And Buster Workie played a vital role in the early years of the old timers As active members, they regularly attended conventions and track time events serving as living links between racing’s past and present.

Their participation helped bridge the generational gap. Allowing younger fans and aspiring drivers to learn directly from those who had shaped the sport. These legends generously shared their knowledge and experience posing for photographs, offering interviews, and discussing not only their racing careers, but also their contributions to car design, fabrication, and mechanical innovation.

By engaging directly with members and fans, they helped cultivate a shared sense of community. This intergenerational involvement became a defining [00:28:00] feature of EM’S culture. Also in 1983, the old timers took on a second major step in expanding their public outreach. They purchased Shorty Miller’s Mobile Museum of Racing History, a 30 foot trailer outfitted with display cases, lighting and climate control.

This mobile museum allowed WTOT to bring the history of motorsports directly to the public. Volunteers traveled to Speedways Faires. Conventions throughout the region. For many, this was their first opportunity to see historic racing artifacts up close. Making the sports pass tangible and accessible. At the time, the old timers had already masked an impressive collection of drivers, uniforms, trophies, helmets, and safety equipment, as well as an extensive archive of racing photographs and programs documenting the sports evolution.

Lynn Paxton was. Essential in acquiring these objects for the future museum. He’s shown here on the left with Bruce Craig, [00:29:00] who was a member and a local photographer, and they would travel around Wednesdays was the day where they go to different places across the Mid-Atlantic region to acquire things that they thought would be good for the Racing Museum.

So an example that they’re shown here, this is the tale from Ted Horn’s car that he died in in 1948. And it’s still something that we display at the museum to this day. By bringing artifacts, stories, and racing history directly to fans across the region. The mobile museum demonstrated the public’s interest and engagement, proving that a full-time brick and mortar museum was both necessary and sustainable.

Latimore Valley, once again, echoed with the sounds of racing engines. By 1984, during the second annual open house members like Stein and Billy Gauss took to the track and restored cars that they had originally raced there in the 1930s. For the first time in over 40 years, cars raced around Lamar’s oval turning memory [00:30:00] into motion.

The group hosted track time on both Saturday and Sunday. These events weren’t designed to stage races. Instead, drivers paced the track at speeds roughly 20 miles per hour to showcase the restore machines for their fellow enthusiasts and first time visitors. While the cars circled the TrackR announcers shared details and historical information about each car as well as each different period of racing history, much like the independent racers of the 1920s and thirties.

Vintage race car restorers are artists and craftsmen dedicating countless hours to rebuilding cars, sourcing hard to find parts, and fabricating components by hand. In doing so, they preserve not just machines, but the skills, creativity, and relationships that define racing culture. Recognizing the importance of preserving the identities and stories of historic race cars.

The old timers established one of the earliest organized historical databases for vintage racing [00:31:00] vehicles. Members understood the need to have accurate documentation to protect and share these histories. Vintage Conos could officially register their vehicles and received a number dash plaques signifying inclusion in the organization’s historical record.

By the mid 1980s, the old timers had documented histories and photographs for over 130 significant cars, and this number has continued to grow. To this day, I think we’re approaching about 400, 4 50 that have been registered. So car owners frankly come to the museum to trace the lineage of vehicles bearing these original dash plaques when they purchase a vintage race car.

Even to this day in 1985, the Williams Grove Oldtimers had another milestone, the first rebirth of the Latimore Valley fair with supportive local volunteers. They reopen the fair featuring antique tractors and engine live entertainment crafts, children’s games, and of course vintage race cars. The Latimore Valley Fair [00:32:00] became an annual tradition and the primary fundraising event for the organization in 2025.

The fair celebrated its 40th anniversary today. The event both preserves the legacy of the original fair while reinforcing Lati Moore’s role as a community gathering place and a living museum for racing history. By the time construction of the Eastern Museum began in 1989, the Williams Grove Oldtimers had 1700 members.

Phase one of the museum included exhibition space for about 20 cars, as well as displays a library and a gift shop. Today the museum has expanded through several renovations and grown to offer nearly 24,000 square feet of exhibit space. We now display more than 60 vintage race cars alongside countless artifacts from Chris Mackie’s typewriter to Malcolm Durham’s racing jacket to Jimmy McGuire’s prosthetic arm In less than a decade after becoming a 5 0 1 C3 [00:33:00] nonprofit.

The Williams Grove Oldtimers had not only achieved their original goals, but they had made their mark on preserving Pennsylvania racing history. Their leadership drove the purchase and restoration of the Lamore Valley Speedway, the revival of the Lamore Valley Fair, and the construction of a permanent museum dedicated to the region’s motorsports history.

The passion and vision of those original Williams Grove Alzheimer’s founders inspired a broad network of volunteers. Local businessmen area speedways and racing enthusiasts to rally behind the organization. The legacy they set in motion continues to grow. Vintage race car exhibitions have expanded far beyond Latimore, now held annually at area tracks such as Williams Grove, Lincoln, Babs, port Royal, and Hagerstown in 2025.

EMMR additionally hosted three track time events at Latimore, and in 2026, the Jalopy Showdown will return to the fairgrounds, demonstrating that the spirit first [00:34:00] cultivated by the Williams Grove Old timers remains very much alive at EMMR today. Alongside ongoing museum expansions and the development of a permanent drag racing exhibit, this Giy Showdown event helped EMMR broaden its mission beyond sprint cars and midgets, celebrating the full diversity of regional racing vintage race car exhibits at Latimar Valley.

Transform then history into living experience. Visitors see these cars not just as static artifacts, but as functioning machines that once thrill crowds. Tested engineering limits and showcase driver skill. Each lap around the track bridges past and present highlighting the craftsmanship, innovation, and passion that define generations of Pennsylvania motorsport.

Through these events, the fairgrounds have become more than a historic site. They’re a dynamic classroom where motorsports continues to educate, inspire and engage people of all ages. For over four decades, then Lynn Paxton, who’s shown in that Miracle power [00:35:00] special in the upper right, led these efforts ensuring that the stories, artifacts, and experiences of racing history were collected, celebrated, and shared.

Following his passing in 2024, EMMR launched the Lin Paxton Memorial Fund to honor his dedication to public history and the museum’s mission.

Are there any questions? So I’m interested in the Chris Koma connection. What do you have in that collection or a little bit and, uh, how did it come that you got it? Sure. I think Chris’s collection was spread. Some of it’s here at Watkins Glen. Some of it’s at the Revs Institute, and some of it came to EMMR.

So what we have are a lot of Chris’s personal mementos like that typewriter, as well as a lot of his awards that he has pictures of him throughout his career with the A b, C wide world of sport. As well as things such as the newspaper [00:36:00] bag that he handed out his original newspapers and when he was just a boy.

So we have a lot of that as well as a large collection of his books came to EMMR. So we have a research room that has a display, uh, with a lot of the books that came in from the Kane Mackey collection. And Corin, his daughter actually just donated a series of programs to us that date back to that early period of the twenties and thirties from various tracks throughout the Mid-Atlantic.

I noticed when you were playing that video, it mentioned one of the founding members was a swaggert. Yes. I’m assuming relative of Leroy. No, not that I think, I don’t think there’s any historical connection there that I’ve been able to find out. Carl Schweigert was a track announcer at a variety of tracks and an amateur historian.

So he came to the organization because of this shared love for history, and we actually have a lot of his scrapbooks. So all the races that he attended from that period of the thirties and forties, he made scrapbooks of a lot of like the [00:37:00] information, the tickets of the ephemera, and we still have those today.

He was working as an amateur historian, writing kind of histories of area racing and participating actively, and then joined our organization when it started in the seventies. I can attest to the uh, fact that Lynn was a storyteller. I’ve only visited the place once, but honestly, within 15 minutes of walking in, we were in a discussion with him and it was like we’d known him forever and he was just.

Fabulous and and definitely appeared to be the driving force behind that place. Those were brave men that drove those cars. Then they’re brave men that drive those cars. Now, seriously, I urge anybody that has not visited EMMR at some point in time, you’ve gotta put that into your. Itinerary because it is just a absolutely fabulous place.

So happy you were able to come up and join us today. And I will second what Kip said. I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Lynn a couple of years ago, and he took us on a guided tour of the museum. We actually have that as a podcast episode and thanks to Allison, we’ve [00:38:00] been working to digitally remaster a lot of the old they call racers Roundtable, which would be the equivalent in IMRC.

Speak to the center conversations, which do feature Lynn and a lot of his comedy and a lot of. The sarcasm and you get to really know him as a person and his personality. So look for those in the next couple of months as we continue to drop those. If you’re interested, just come see me. But it’s been an absolute pleasure to be able to work on those projects as well.

Have you ever. Driven any of the cars out in the track. I have not driven the cars on the track, but I grew up attending dirt track races in central Pennsylvania. Silver Spring, Williams Grove Lincoln were the tracks that I’ve attended since childhood. So I have the fan perspective and some of the promotional perspective because my family was involved in that, but never took an interest in wanting to get behind the wheel, having witnessed.

Some of those accidents as a child, especially fire is something that very much concerns me when you’re strapped in like that, but definitely grew up at dirt tracks. So it’s interesting to be at EMMR because we have this thriving drag [00:39:00] racing culture and it’s a whole different speak, right? It’s a whole different vocabulary, a whole different kind of community.

So it’s been great to expand my background in racing with lots of other different types of racing since coming to the museum. I just wanted to say thank you and I really appreciate the perspective of your presentation in a variety of ways, but you really hit on, I think, an aspect of racing that sometimes gets overlooked as we talk about F1, nascar, imsa, all that.

Like I actually think, even though I didn’t grow up going to those sorts of things, for me as an archivist in all kinds of racing history, that kind of stuff gets overlooked, and I think it’s really, really fascinating. I love looking at the old pictures. We have some great amateur photography from tracks that look just like that, and so I’m really excited to see that.

Thank you, Allison. I’m just wondering, do you have any kind of educational outreach to local schools, to thinking some of the local colleges nearby, like Penn State, Harrisburg, and [00:40:00] places like that? Is there any kind of educational component that you go out. Or have kids come in to see. So we’re trying to build that, since I’ve joined the museum in the last three years, starting mostly with school groups, so the Boy Scouts as well as homeschooling groups in the area and charter schools, we’ve started to bring them in to do.

Tours, but also have kind of educational activities planned. So I have a scavenger hunt now where there’s great pictures of different things in the collection and they have to identify that object and then answer questions about it. And I’m also trying to move some of our exhibits. We now have a rotating exhibit gallery.

That’s using more STEM connections with existing programs. So for example, the NHRA has a YES program where they have on their website a whole set of lesson plans. So it’s very easy to incorporate those into our galleries and encourage them families as they’re there visiting to finish these activities as well.

Now, can I thank Allison?[00:41:00]

This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports spanning continence, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of race drivers. Race series and race cars captured on their shelves and walls and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. To learn more about the center, visit www.racing archives.org.

This [00:42:00] episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized wheeled land transportation.

Through the modern age and into the future. For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org. We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports.

And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org. [00:43:00] We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Latimore Valley Fairgrounds: A Historical Overview
02:41 The Emergence of Automobile Racing
03:36 Challenges and Controversies in the 1920s
07:19 Racing and Social Divisions
11:42 The Decline and Revival Efforts
16:18 The Role of Oral Histories
21:25 The Williams Grove Old Timers and EMMR
31:39 The Rebirth of Latimore Valley Fair
32:18 Expansion and Legacy of EMMR
35:24 Q&A Session
41:11 Closing Remarks and Credits

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Yet Latimore never truly disappeared. Families saved ticket stubs, trophies, and photographs, creating informal archives that kept its spirit alive. These personal collections became invaluable decades later, when nostalgia and responsibility inspired a new generation of racers to act. In 1982, the Williams Grove Old Timers, led by figures like Lynn Paxton, purchased the abandoned fairgrounds. Their vision was bold: not just a museum, but a living exhibition track where history could be experienced in motion.

Volunteers cleared brush, rebuilt guardrails, and restored the oval. By 1984, vintage cars once again circled Latimore’s track – not in competition, but in demonstration, allowing enthusiasts to witness the craftsmanship of restorers and the legacy of drivers. The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing (EMMR) emerged from this effort, safeguarding artifacts and stories while fostering intergenerational connections. Oral histories, exhibitions, and track time events turned Latimore into a bridge between past and present.

Today, Latimore Valley stands as more than a preserved site. It is a testament to institutional memory – the collective stories, documents, and traditions that shape how heritage is remembered and celebrated. Through the dedication of EMMR and its community, Latimore is not just a relic of motorsport’s past; it is a living archive where engines, artifacts, and memories continue to inspire.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

About the EMMR

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premiere destination for motor racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts and memorabilia.

Each roundtable brings together voices from across the motorsports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans, as they share stories, insights, and behind-the-scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys. Whether you’re a die-hard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open-wheel icons, the Racers Roundtable is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it.

To learn more about the EMMR, or to take part of the next in-person Racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit, or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www.EMMR.org. Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content.

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Enduroverse: Building the Home Endurance Racing Has Always Deserved

B/F: The Drive Thru #65

Drive Thru News

Tania M

-

February 24, 2026

0

This Drive Thru News episode tears through a disappointing slate of Super Bowl car commercials before shifting into a broader roundup of automotive chaos – from Stellantis’ $26B EV implosion and Tesla axing the Model S and X, to StopTech and Raybestos abruptly shutting down and Honda’s new Prelude landing with a thud. The hosts riff on design misfires, EV fatigue, and shifting EPA rules while weaving in motorsports talk, including the dull Rolex 24, Bathurst’s massive crash, and WRC scouting U.S. rally sites. They wrap with GTM project updates, track‑season safety reminders, and a grab‑bag of Florida‑man absurdity and parking‑lot disasters, all delivered with their usual humor and gearhead banter.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

News from Our Network Partners!

This is your fast lane to the latest in automotive culture, powered by a coalition of passionate publishers and insiders. From the vintage elegance of Garage Style Magazine to the high-octane listings of Exotic Car Marketplace, and the deep historical dives of The Motoring Historian, our coverage is enriched by voices that live and breathe the motoring world. Whether it’s the eclectic archives of Motorcopia, the endurance grit of Enduroverse, or contributions from other trusted partners, each segment delivers sharp, informed perspectives straight from the garages, paddocks, and showrooms that shape the scene.

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**All photos and articles are dynamically aggregated from the source; click on the image or link to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors, publishers or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.

Show Notes & Supporting Stories

For a list of all the articles and events referenced on this episode check out the show notes below.

Formula One

Japanese & JDM

Prelude is a disappointment, and Doug DeMuro adds to the dogpile of negative reviews

Lower Saxony

Lowered Expectations

This month's "Celebrity" Car Commercial

Motorsports

Rich People Thangs!

Ferrari introduces EV "The Luce" co-designed with Apple's Jony Ive

Stellantis

Jeep maker's shares tank on reset announcement

Tesla

Tesla Model S and X “two of Tesla’s longest running models” are being discontinued next Quarter

VAG & Porsche

Track Side Report

NJMP Press Release: “Anyone planning to race at New Jersey Motorsports Park (NJMP) in 2026 should take note of an important helmet requirement. Please note that this applies ONLY to motorsports in New Jersey. Due to New Jersey Administrative Code Title 13, Chapter 62, the Snell SA2015 helmet standard expires on December 31, 2025. Beginning January 1, 2026, all drivers competing in New Jersey must use a Snell SM or SA 2020, or SM or SA 2025–rated helmet. SA2015 helmets will no longer be valid for use at sanctioned motorsports events in New Jersey. This requirement is mandated by state regulation—not by the South Jersey Region or NJMP—and may be actively enforced by state representatives or track management. Competitors found to be out of compliance may be deemed ineligible to compete.”
Lime Rock Park is also pushing for people to renew their helmets – “For this season, SA2015 helmets will still be accepted at NEQ track events with the exception of Lime Rock Park. SA2020 or newer helmets are now required by Lime Rock Park. For LRP attendees without valid helmets, a limited number of rentals will be available at our event.”

If it’s time to go shopping, Stable Energies offers a 15% discount to active NEQ member instructors. You’ll need your ACNA membership number to use code AUDINEQINS at checkout. Or reach out to our sponsor Mark Francis at OGRacing.com, mention Gran Touring Motorsports and you heard about this on the podcast and he’ll work with you on pricing.

Would you like fries with that?

Behind the Scenes

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All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

TRANSCRIPT

Executive Producer Tania: [00:00:00] Welcome to Break Fixes, Drive-Through News, your monthly recap for everything fast, fascinating, and usually four wheeled. We’re serving up a fresh batch of automotive headlines, motorsports madness, and car adjacent curiosities, all with zero wait time and maximum flavor from Formula One, drama to concept car debuts with Garage built legends to the Quirkiest stories rolling out of the state of Florida.

We’ve got your fix, so grab your coffee, buckle up, and let’s cruise through the latest in the world of wheels with a side of entertainment and just a dash of tire smoke.

Crew Chief Brad: Do we not need to read the intro anymore? Do you just fit it in for, oh no, I guess I need to say drive through episode number 65.

Crew Chief Eric: So you do listen to the show now because we edited that stuff out. There’s a whole new intro.

Crew Chief Brad: I do not listen to the show. ’cause I was just asking do I need to record it?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, yeah, we, we’ve been cutting you short, like the last, I don’t know, four or five episodes like it.

You just say it’s then why have

Crew Chief Brad: I, why have you been making me say it? What the

Crew Chief Eric: fuck? ’cause it’s tradition. Tradition. [00:01:00] No, Brad, you do not need to read the old intro anymore. Tanya redid it. It’s great.

Crew Chief Brad: Welcome to drive through episode number 65. This is our monthly recap where we put together a menu of automotive motor sport, entertaining car.

Jason News. Now let’s pull up to the window number one four Automotive news, blah.

Crew Chief Eric: See, you could do it just because you want to

Crew Chief Brad: speed reading to go along with Tanya’s speed skating.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go.

Executive Producer Tania: Ooh, speed skating. If you were an Olympian in the Winter Olympics, what sport would you do

Crew Chief Brad: outside of hockey?

Executive Producer Tania: Okay, so you’re hockey.

Crew Chief Eric: Can I just do the shooting part of the biathlon?

Executive Producer Tania: You know what they need to upgrade. I still haven’t seen s Schmo yet, but need, they need to upgrade that and add the, the shooting in with that.

Crew Chief Eric: If I did s schmo, they’d rename it to slowmo.

Soon. The Olympics will come to a close as [00:02:00] well.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, don’t say things like that. The juice has been spilled.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. I just, hockey fights all I think about. I was conditioned.

Yes, I blame the deal.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s terrible. So terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s what I see in my head. I think of hockey fights

Crew Chief Eric: bigger is the Canadian controversy with curling. That is like the hotness right now. I need to dive a little deeper into that. See what’s going on there.

Executive Producer Tania: The push,

Crew Chief Eric: and then the Swedish team recorded them and the Canadians are mad that they record. That’s like a whole thing. It’s hot, it’s ridiculous. But anyway, as the Olympics have concluded, by the time everybody listens to this, there’s a lot of other things that have concluded this season. Super Bowl closing game of the football season, since we’re [00:03:00] talking about sports.

So let’s talk about those Super Bowl commercials.

Executive Producer Tania: There were commercials.

Crew Chief Eric: We mentioned we were gonna talk about them this go round. What have we got, Tanya?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know how you put so many car related ones here. ’cause I didn’t see any,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s ’cause I, that’s all I paid attention to. ’cause the game was

Executive Producer Tania: so boring.

I paid attention to, but there weren’t any, like, there were sometimes a car in a commercial, but it wasn’t about cars.

Crew Chief Brad: But there was that. Was it a square body or an old Ford During the commercial for Puerto Rico. Right in the middle of the game.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh yes. In the halftime show you mean? Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. Is that what that was?

Yeah. I didn’t understand. So I.

Crew Chief Eric: There were no subtitles. You were lost like everybody else.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, no, I, I heard, I, I understood it. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that how it goes? I mean, that’s your new number one single right [00:04:00] there.

Crew Chief Brad: My, my tt. Yeah. Yeah. My Titi. Yeah.

Yeah. Novia. My Titi. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So to Tanya’s, to Tanya’s point, there were car commercials and I made note of them. I, I almost felt like I was doing a Steve and Izzy, everything I learned from movies review.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, you’re stretching hard. I see the list now.

Crew Chief Eric: No, no.

Executive Producer Tania: Like a good neighbor. State Farm is here, is car adjacent.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay. That was car related. There was a car and it, Bon Jovi was in it. Yeah. Danny McBride and Keenan Michael Key. It was a car commercial. It was about car insurance. It was actually pretty good. It was pretty funny actually.

Crew Chief Brad: It was kind of

Executive Producer Tania: funny. I feel like in the past we’ve never had to succumb to the flow.

Nationwide Commercials, progressive, I mean, or anything like that.

Crew Chief Eric: I was happy for a State Farm commercial that didn’t have Jake from State Farm for a change. I thought it was good. It was probably one of the better commercials of the Super Bowl.

Executive Producer Tania: Nobody knows who the female was.

Crew Chief Eric: No, [00:05:00] I don’t. Who was it?

Executive Producer Tania: That was Haley Steinfeld.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Who’s that?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, she’s a singer, but also she was Hawk Girl. Girl.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay.

Executive Producer Tania: She was also in the,

Crew Chief Brad: she was in Pitch Perfect.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes, she was in Pitch Perfect like three, but she was also in the, um, one of those Bravo Duval movies. I think

Crew Chief Brad: we’ll get to that. Oh, rest, he

Executive Producer Tania: rest in peace. No, no, no. It wasn’t Rest in peace, but no, it was a true grit.

Sorry. He was the one with the other dude.

Crew Chief Eric: Got it.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, I, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Literally the dude.

Crew Chief Brad: The dude, he was the dude who’s,

Executive Producer Tania: because the commercials suck that much. Continue,

Crew Chief Eric: yes. We’re also overlooking the fact that Toyota was the title sponsor of the Super Bowl

Executive Producer Tania: and Honda in Acura, the title sponsors of the Olympics, every commercials a car commercial.

Crew Chief Eric: So there were Toyota commercials, there had to be Toyota commercials and there were two that were the most important ones. So we had the not Jake from State Farm Commercial, and then we had Toyota where Dreams Begin, which is that commercial that starts off with Bubba Wallace from nascar. [00:06:00] Yes. And the whole underlying message of childhood dreams shaping champions.

And that was very touchy feely.

Crew Chief Brad: I think that one doubles as an Olympic commercial. ’cause wasn’t there the, uh, the Paralympic uh, athlete in there as well?

Crew Chief Eric: Correct? Correct. There was that nice little tie in there. The next Toyota commercial. I called it the twofer ad. Mm-hmm. This is the one that starts with a 1997 RAV4 and ends with the grandson driving a new RAV4.

And the underlying message there is family, nostalgia, safety,

Crew Chief Brad: family, family, family.

Crew Chief Eric: What do we think of the new RAV4? Because this was sort of a, a debut of the new RAV4 as well as part of this commercial.

Executive Producer Tania: There’s a new RAV4. I

Crew Chief Brad: don’t, I don’t remember.

Crew Chief Eric: That was what was in the commercial.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean it looks like everything else.

Crew Chief Eric: Front end was pretty bad.

Executive Producer Tania: It has the weird cheese grater front end now.

Crew Chief Eric: Exactly.

Crew Chief Brad: So, yeah, it looks like a mini Hold on. What does this look like?

Executive Producer Tania: It looks like something else and I can’t think of what that other car

Crew Chief Brad: they’re, they’ve got the Lexus.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks awful.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re kind of taking the Lexus front end sorta.

It looks like a mini [00:07:00] foreigner or Sequoia.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. We had a VW commercial. I thought we were gonna make it through the Super Bowl without one, but we had one this year.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes. It barely featured a Volkswagen.

Crew Chief Eric: It had an ID Buzz and a Tiguan,

Executive Producer Tania: but it was like the fastest drive-bys that if you weren’t paying attention, you never, it was very much a commercial about people, drivers.

Crew Chief Eric: Drivers wanted. That was, they were going back to the eighties. I also thought it funny because we’re talking about things that are closing, things that are ending the end of this is our season finale. By the way, the ID buzz ironically, in this commercial, they’re advertising a card that they’re not going to sell in America anymore.

What is the point of that?

Crew Chief Brad: They’re not selling the ID buzz in America.

Crew Chief Eric: No, they canceled it

Crew Chief Brad: because they didn’t sell any. That’s why

Executive Producer Tania: if you were watching the Super Bowl, you would’ve seen how other countries were also watching the Super Bowl. So maybe they just left it in there for them.

Crew Chief Eric: Whatever. Maybe they did.

Maybe they, alright. Nissan comes to the table with some [00:08:00] car commercials. There were two of them.

Executive Producer Tania: I must have had a different feed than you all.

Crew Chief Eric: No, I was glued to the Super Bowl ’cause I wanted to see

Executive Producer Tania: I never left.

Crew Chief Brad: So during the Super Bowl, were there humans playing or were there puppies because I think there were two different Super Bowls going on.

Executive Producer Tania: I’ve never watched the Puffy Bowl. Thank you very much. I was watching the abomination. That was the Patriot’s offense and

Crew Chief Brad: yeah. Oh my God. Okay.

Executive Producer Tania: Because at

Crew Chief Brad: least their

Executive Producer Tania: defense tried.

Crew Chief Brad: So we were watching, we, we’ve established that we were watching the same game. Okay. That that works.

Crew Chief Eric: I was hyperfocused on the commercials because I was anticipating the reveal of the Cadillac Formula One car, which we will talk about on a different episode than this one.

I was so laser focused on every commercial ’cause I didn’t wanna miss the Cadillac reveal of the F1 car. So that said, there are two. Nissan commercials

Executive Producer Tania: also been a week and a half, and I don’t remember

Crew Chief Eric: Nissan Rogue, the [00:09:00] dip seat ad. Right? You have to protect the dip. He’s driving around, it’s like,

Executive Producer Tania: oh, with the guy from, um, the cooking show.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. It’s sort of the same idea as initial D. Right? Don’t let the tofu get all upset in the back of the car when you’re drifting down Mount Aquina. It’s like the same idea, right? I’m like, okay, cool. I, I get it. Then there was the other one where they took the Rogue and they were just absolutely. Punishing it off road, the water pressure thing, the Jet fighter backwash, like they still show that commercial, you know, even through the Olympics and stuff.

You guys, you had to see that one.

Executive Producer Tania: Were these like the pre commercials be like before the Super Bowl even

Crew Chief Eric: started? No, these were during, I should have written the timestamps down. They were during

Executive Producer Tania: the, I’m literally watching the Dipsy one and I never saw this one.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh God. I saw all of these,

I’ll say this, at least the car commercials weren’t using AI like the rest of the commercials were not only were their commercials about artificial intelligence, like [00:10:00] name your favorite, whether it’s Claude or Gemini, or Copilot or Chat, GPT, I mean just every other commercial is an AI commercial or it was generated by ai and then we went down this path of massive aging that Dunkin Donuts commercial what.

Was that?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know. Honestly, I didn’t understand the point of it. The people didn’t make sense together because like Jael White showed up Urkel and I’m like, what does Urkel have to do with friends? Because I thought they were trying to do a friends thing and like the whole breakup. We were on a break.

We on a break.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. But then Carlton shows up and he is like doing his thing. Right. But I didn’t get it. It was like all the nineties sitcoms basically.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. But I feel like, I don’t know, I didn’t get it.

Crew Chief Eric: I didn’t think it was funny. I thought it was actually kind of sad ’cause it was like really? Oh, okay.

But the one that got me though, the de aging done right, that William Shatner Raisin brand ambassador [00:11:00] thing was. Wow. Mind blowing. Wow. And did, I don’t know if you noticed, he was dressed like when he did the Rocket Man music video thing. It was just on so many levels of like inception. It was amazing. And I have to bring up William Shatner because we did that senior moment movie.

So it was like boom, car related. There it is. William Shatner. Done. We’re gonna talk about Formula One later in the other episode of Formula Fanatics. But there was a little Formula One cameo in there. Did you guys catch the 30th anniversary Pokemon commercial that had Charles Le Clare in it?

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Uhhuh.

Crew Chief Eric: That was good stuff.

Executive Producer Tania: That was a good commercial.

Crew Chief Eric: What’s his favorite Pokemon again?

Executive Producer Tania: Aines The Tiger.

Crew Chief Eric: They all flew by really fast at the end when they said which ones they were their favorites. Somebody likes Jiggly Puff. I know that. It’s all good.

Executive Producer Tania: That was Lady Gaga.

That was hilarious though when she was singing the song,

Crew Chief Eric: the car commercials this year. I agree. They were not good. So I’m gonna quiz you guys. I did a little homework. Do you [00:12:00] know what’s considered the top five car commercials of all time for the Super Bowl?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, no, I wouldn’t.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m gonna guess. One is gonna be imported from Detroit.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s actually number two, so that’s a really good guess. So family feud,

Executive Producer Tania: fried chicken,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s number two.

Crew Chief Brad: Tanya, can you steal

Executive Producer Tania: all time? Like how far back are we going?

Crew Chief Eric: They actually only go back the last about 20 years.

Executive Producer Tania: Did the Eugene Levy one make it?

Crew Chief Eric: It did not. Mm. Got a better guess. Do you have any others that you really remember that are like super good car commercials from the Super Bowls?

Executive Producer Tania: What was that one with the,

Crew Chief Brad: the Nissan 300?

Executive Producer Tania: The three

Crew Chief Brad: dx? It wasn’t as,

Executive Producer Tania: yeah, but I think that was

Crew Chief Brad: older than three years. The

Crew Chief Eric: turbo years

Crew Chief Brad: ago the turbo

Crew Chief Eric: kicks [00:13:00] in.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Wasn’t that a Super Bowl commercial?

Crew Chief Eric: It was, and it is not considered one of the best. All right. Letterman style coming in at number five Jeep’s Groundhog Day from 2020. That’s the one where Bill Murray returns to relive Groundhog Day with the Jeep Gladiator.

So that’s number five. It’s not

Executive Producer Tania: gonna, it’s not gonna be the singer dude, Bruce Springsteen. No,

Crew Chief Eric: no, no. That okay? Nah. All right. Number four. If you remember from 2014, the Kia commercial with Morphy. Lawrence Fishburne comes back as Morpheus from the Matrix and literally shatters glass, blah, blah, blah, and it’s all the Kia, you know, all the real matrix stuff.

That’s number four. Number three,

Executive Producer Tania: the Kia mice. I’m kidding.

Crew Chief Eric: No, they’re not in there. Number three from 2009, Audis the Chase. That’s the one where Jason Statham did that. Like really cool movie preview. It was like the transporter, but it was a commercial for Audi. I remember that one. It was really good. It was super dark.

Crew Chief Brad: So dark. You couldn’t see the car [00:14:00]

Crew Chief Eric: pretty much. Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: Number two was made in Detroit.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Number two was made in Detroit and number one coming in number one. 2011 Volkswagens the force. Do you remember that?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, oh,

Crew Chief Brad: with the little boy?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the number one car commercial of all time for the Super Bowl.

Executive Producer Tania: Hard doubt. Do that.

Crew Chief Brad: Volkswagens on there three times.

Executive Producer Tania: Third one from last year was pretty good. Had all the fields, if you remember,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s why I was surprised we, I went so far into the Super Bowl and hadn’t seen a Volkswagen commercial and then when it showed up it was like, that’s it. Really continuing on this theme of things that are closing still an’s dreams of making it in the EV market are closing.

It’s a 26 billion with a B dollar fail.

Executive Producer Tania: Who’s getting fired?

Crew Chief Eric: Everybody’s getting fired at Chrysler.

Executive Producer Tania: You are getting fired. You are getting fired and you are getting fired.

Crew Chief Eric: This conversation [00:15:00] actually came up at work. It was really funny because somebody threw it out there and I immediately was like, I mean I took the hook, I bit and I was like, ah, here we go.

Because I was thinking about the whole phrasing there, Chrysler’s EV entries, and I’m like, what do they really have in the EV market? They had the Pacifica Hybrid, which is made in Canada, and we know why it’s not being made anymore because of whatever’s going on in politics right now. Then we had the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Wrangler four xe, which is something that few people wanted.

I told you guys about the test drive of the Wrangler four xe. It wasn’t that impressed, but that’s a plugin hybrid. Both of those are, so is the Pacifica, so they, those aren’t true EVs. They’re hybrids and then they came out with that charger ev. I’ve seen one in the wild, so somebody bought one, but I brought up the point.

That’s where they lost their way. Like a lot of other car companies who wants to buy a muscle car that doesn’t have any muscle? And it’s not that the Charger EV was bad looking ’cause [00:16:00] it actually looks really nice and it’s really menacing and aggressive and all that. But it’s just like when it sounds like a Hoover, like what is that?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, the people that want the 9 billion horsepower, hell, cat, demon, whatever, Satan reincarnated version, that doesn’t go with ev. Correct. Like that’s not your market audience.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m also discounting the rest of Stellantis portfolio that they have overseas, like the 500 E and a bunch of other stuff that we don’t even really want to consider here in the States because where’s the last Fiat dealer closing in America?

Right? Because they’re all shutting their doors too right now. So there’s not a whole heck of a lot going on. So. Stateside. So I’m, I’m very much focused just on stateside stuff, but we did report a bunch of drive-throughs ago about that Chrysler airflow concept that they were gonna build, which I thought was a pretty good looking.

I was actually kind of interested in that as well. That never came to market. They never made it, it never went anywhere other than the [00:17:00] renderings we saw online. Again, I say, is this really a loss for us here in the States that Stellantis isn’t doing anything with EVs? Who cares?

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve seen mixed reviews on the four xe.

I think it’s a cool concept in the Jeeps and everything, but they’ve got all kinds of electrical problems. Yeah. Your Pacifica and I could gotta imagine other Pacifica has had all kinds of electrical problems. Yep. And just, I don’t want an all electric vehicle from a company that is notorious for having electrical problems.

And the charger, ev correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t they discontinue all other chargers and only release

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: The charger ev

Crew Chief Eric: for like five

Crew Chief Brad: minutes? I feel like that was a mistake. Yes. Like I’m, I’m, I feel like had they taken the Ford F-150 route and kept some of the other models and just offered it as a separate or as in addition to the lineup, maybe it would’ve done a little better.

But then again, the Ford F-150 Lightning doesn’t sell very well either. So this would be a very different story if the [00:18:00] political climate was different.

Crew Chief Eric: I think you’re a hundred percent right, but there is a little bit of hope for enthusiasts like ourselves out there because within the last time that we did a drive-through and now there’s been some changes at the EPA, one of the big things that’s changing amongst a bunch of different rules, specifically for auto manufacturers is all of the requirements that they were beholden to, you know, the hybrids and certain amount of this to offset the big V eights and these that and the other things.

And even things like auto stop start, which most of us enthusiasts or otherwise cannot stand, right? And the dual electric system that all the extra stuff that goes along with, they basically said that like auto stop start. Let’s just focus on that. Doesn’t really do any good. It proved out that it doesn’t save emissions.

It doesn’t really save anything. Motors are more efficient when they’re run at constant than when they’re on and off. And they always say, you know, startup enrichments, there’s more fuel being used every time it restarts, all this kind of thing. And so they’re doing [00:19:00] away with that. They’re doing away with a bunch of other stuff like that.

And basically it’s gonna open the doors now for auto manufacturers like Stellantis to come back to the table. With big honk and v eights and supercharged v sixes and a bunch of other stuff. So maybe we’re going to see not necessarily proliferation of Big Motors again, because everything’s been shrinking down to three cylinders.

I’m surprised we didn’t get down to two cylinder turbos by this point, you know, that kind of thing. But I think we’re gonna see the reintroduction of six and a half liter Chrysler chargers and challengers and all that kind of stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: And then the political climate’s gonna change again. We’re gonna get a swing the other way, and they’re all gonna have to stop making all that bullshit again.

The EPA is gonna double down on even stricter guidelines, and it’s just gonna be a pendulum that swings back and forth every four to eight years.

Crew Chief Eric: But see, that gives you an opportunity to buy some good cars, and then the crappy ones will come out and you can skip those and then buy good cars again. You see?

Crew Chief Brad: You wanna buy a good car, buy anything pre 2020, [00:20:00] or I just picked a random year, but buy something older.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Executive Producer Tania: Hump the brakes. Did you all hear the news?

Crew Chief Eric: What’s going on?

Executive Producer Tania: Stop Tech.

Crew Chief Brad: They stopped.

Executive Producer Tania: Stop Tech stopped no longer selling brakes, rotors, kits after 27 years in the brake business.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow.

Executive Producer Tania: But it’s not just them. Buy, buy raybestos

Crew Chief Eric: really

Executive Producer Tania: centric. Yes, because apparently all three are under the same parent company, which apparently also owns FRA filters, Michelin wiper blades, some Reese towing parts and auto light spark plugs. And those people are under federal fraud indictments. And filed chapter 11 bankruptcy and they tried to sell off Stop Tech, asbestos and Centric.

Nobody bought them. So they basically said, done. Stop production. Stop spending money.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow. So that leaves Brembo and Willwood

Crew Chief Brad: for Big Break Kids.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, for aftermarket,

Crew Chief Brad: you can still get Hawk.

Executive Producer Tania: You can still get Durast maybe?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no. [00:21:00] You might not be able to because I read an article today saying the parent company of Napa and a bunch of other parts companies, they’re divesting and some of them are on the chopping block and some of ’em have for sale signs in the front yard.

So you might not be able to buy Durast because if you look at what AutoZone Pet Boys and all those places, they have a parent company too, right? Car Quest gets all

Crew Chief Brad: mm-hmm.

Crew Chief Eric: Jumbled up inside of that. So there’s a lot of moving and shaking going on there. So I think Stop Tech might just be foreshadowing for more logistics supply chains of auto parts that are falling apart.

So my question became, how long before the Shoe falls and Rock Auto starts falling apart, you know, places like that, are they too big to fail? Probably not in today’s economy.

Executive Producer Tania: How old do you think Raybestos is?

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna go with 50 plus.

Crew Chief Brad: Seventy seven, a

Executive Producer Tania: hundred and twenty four years.

Crew Chief Eric: What

Executive Producer Tania: apparently Raybestos has been since 1902

Crew Chief Eric: rhymes with asbestos and we gotta get rid of it.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s [00:22:00] probably what they were made from in 1902.

Crew Chief Eric: They were made from wood in 1902 too.

Crew Chief Brad: And I, I won’t be sad if Duralast goes away. No. You know, here’s a, here’s a P. SA for you, for anybody that goes to the track. And if you use Duralast brake pads, they will last you approximately 20 minutes and then you’ll need to replace them.

Crew Chief Eric: Not gonna last. Duralast not gonna last Dur, last

Crew Chief Brad: built to last. Where? Too fast. Dur last.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s great. Well, since again, we’re talking about things that are coming to a close or closing or are dead. Adding to the dog pile of disappointing reviews on Honda’s New Prelude. I think this thing is dead on arrival.

So Doug DeMuro adds to the list of negative reviews to the new Honda Prelude.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, I mean, people are basically saying it’s slower, more expensive, [00:23:00] terrible interior. Go buy a Civic

Crew Chief Eric: pretty much. And at least you can get a Turbo and the Civic

Executive Producer Tania: and they don’t come in manual.

Crew Chief Eric: The new prelude should have been rear wheel drive.

It should have been out there to compete with the GT 86 and the Supra and everything else in that two door coop fast back kind of thing. They missed the mark because it looks like it should be one of those cars. Nah, it doesn’t do it for me,

Crew Chief Brad: but it’s, they did with this. The same thing they did with the original prelude.

Like the original prelude should have been rear wheel drive. Should have had,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: more power. It should have been a better car. And it wasn’t.

Crew Chief Eric: Sorry, Brian Shaw, it’s just the way it is.

Crew Chief Brad: He doesn’t listen anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: Tanya’s not gonna be sad about these two cars going away. And well, like we said, we’re not gonna talk about them unless we absolutely have to.

But this one, I could not let it go by without saying, according to Motor one, Tesla’s model S and Model X, quote unquote, two of Tesla’s longest running models are [00:24:00] being discontinued by April.

Executive Producer Tania: Correct.

Crew Chief Brad: Really?

Crew Chief Eric: Tanya nods her head in enjoyment of that statement.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I don’t

Crew Chief Brad: care. Those are the two, the bigger ones, right?

The two

Executive Producer Tania: flashes, the X is the SUV

Crew Chief Eric: with the gall wings.

Executive Producer Tania: And then the S is like the Model S sedan. The

Crew Chief Eric: The original one. The original Tesla,

Crew Chief Brad: yeah. Yeah. But that the X is the bigger one. The Y is the smaller one.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So they’re gonna just make the Y and the cyber truck. That’s it.

Crew Chief Brad: They still make the three,

Crew Chief Eric: they do

Executive Producer Tania: the model two.

Wasn’t that the one that’s supposed to be like $20,000 free? Basically?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. No, that’s never gonna happen. The model two is dead. That’s stillborn. That’s That’s terrible. Wow.

Executive Producer Tania: Hey, the cyber truck’s still out there

Crew Chief Brad: sitting on lots, undriven

Crew Chief Eric: things. We thought we were dead and now are raising from it. Like Lazarus, the grand tour is coming back.

Crew Chief Brad: Yay.

Executive Producer Tania: I thought they were done 10 times ago.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, right. It’s like the [00:25:00] Rolling Stones tour. Right. And all those guys, they just keep going forever and as long as you keep paying. We will keep touring.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s the final tour number 25.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, exactly. It’s ridiculous. So Jeremy Clarkson put something out on Instagram talking about, which I had already read this a while ago, like who they had chosen to supersede them and I don’t know, because Clarkson’s bit was okay.

And I’m like, okay, who are these guys? Especially the third guy, the train spotting guy. But then I surfaced some of the throttle house videos, especially from their Instagram and I shared them with you guys and I wanted to see what you thought, like, is this what we’re gonna expect in the new Grand tour?

The new quote, unquote, let’s call it Top Gear.

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve seen a lot of the throttle house stuff on. YouTube and I thought it was pretty good for like a YouTube channel. I’m curious to see what they do with a infinite budget and maybe they do things that are more interesting,

Crew Chief Eric: but it’s an infinite budget on a platform that nobody [00:26:00] watches.

And, and I know I’m doing a gross generalization here, but what other compelling event or show or thing is on Amazon Prime that makes you go, Hey, I’m gonna jump over to Amazon Prime and watch their thing. They got tubi and freebie and all that other junk. You’re really gonna waste your time on Amazon Prime when you could be watching the Olympics on Peacock.

You know, that kind of thing. Like really? I don’t think so.

Crew Chief Brad: Well call patrol. This was

Executive Producer Tania: not a paid advertisement.

Crew Chief Eric: PAW Patrol, my God.

Crew Chief Brad: But that’s not even Amazon Prime. That’s, that’s Amazon Prime through, or that’s Paramount Plus through Amazon

Crew Chief Eric: Prime. Oh my God. Yeah, exactly. The clips I saw, I agree with what you said.

I think it’s good for YouTube.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s annoying these people pretending like they’re caveman jumping around the car. Ooh, ooh.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you see the second video? No. Where he’s got the manual where all he does is shift things. If you put it in his hand, he shifts gears. It doesn’t matter what he is doing.

Executive Producer Tania: These videos aren’t made for me.

Crew Chief Eric: Right. [00:27:00]

Executive Producer Tania: I am not their target audience.

Crew Chief Eric: The people are saying, oh, they’re the natural progression for Hamlin Clarkson and May, and I’m like, I, I don’t see it.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: here’s my problem. So the Amazon Prime is one issue and you, you can take many different sides of that issue. How you feel about Amazon and all that.

I’m not even worried about that. I’m just really focusing on if Andy Willman is just trying to reproduce top gear, there’s a big mistake there because you’re never going to find another Clarkson Hammond in May. They are who they are. And at that time we showed up for those guys and we watched and the car stuff and whatever, but the cars have changed and the people have changed.

Reviewing cars hasn’t changed. It’s still the same thing. Like how fast does it go and what does it do and how does it, they’ve been doing another motor week for like a hundred years, you know, that kind of thing. It’s never going to be the same. And if you’re trying to replicate it, that’s where you’re gonna lose a huge amount of audience because I think what they should have done is taken throttle house.

And made that the new brand name, it’s a great name, and said [00:28:00] Throttle house, coming to Amazon Prime. And then you sort of reintroduce the concept and people go, you know, this is really familiar. It has this like top gear kind of feel to it. But it’s a whole new dynamic. And you can get on board with that, you can subscribe with that.

But if you bring these guys to this table and say it’s the new top gear, it’s the new grand tour, whatever, there’s a certain expectation that goes with that. Yeah. And I think we’re all gonna be holding them to that level and they’re never gonna be able to achieve the same thing. And it’s gonna fail.

It’ll make it a year or two max. And then it’ll be gone.

Crew Chief Brad: And to that point, that’s the same reason why the numerous, uh, iterations of American Top Gear, top Gear, USA, top Gear America, they all failed because they were all under the shadow. And the high expectations of the original top gear, like you were saying, you’re never gonna get another Clarkson Hammond in May.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, the only one that worked, the only spinoff that worked in that series is the one most people don’t even [00:29:00] realize existed, which is Top Gear Australia. ’cause the Australians sort of just did whatever the heck they wanted and it was funny. And it was all about their stuff and their culture and their cars and it just worked.

And then they did a cross, one of the best crossover episodes with Top Gear is the Ashes episode where the Australians come and they do the shootout, the the XJ two 20 powered van and the Maloo and all that stuff. The Australians did it. Right. And they didn’t get enough credit. But to your point, the Americans and all the other spinoffs, because there even apparently was like a top gear Germany.

Yeah. And they just never worked because they were trying to repeat the recipe and you can’t do that. So I unfortunately feel like this is the same thing with the Grand tour and it’s got a lot of cards stacked against it from day one.

Crew Chief Brad: And I think a lot of that also comes from just the way Clarkson, Hammond and May worked.

Like, not even just their chemistry on screen, but the work that they did behind the screen. I mean, I thought, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I saw something about where [00:30:00] Clarkson would spend hours writing and rewriting and retaking jokes and checking and like testing. It is like everything that he was meticulous

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: With how they did and they, and they made it look so effortless and almost candid, but it was meticulously put together and thought out.

Crew Chief Eric: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Crew Chief Brad: And nobody else can replicate that.

Crew Chief Eric: No. Well, speaking of things that can’t be replicated, and on a very sad note, drag racing legend, ed Isky Arian, also known as the Cam father, passed away on February the fourth at 104 years old.

Our condolences go out to the family and to break fix guest Cheyenne Kane. We were very fortunate to be able to have her on the show to Chronicle Isys life and to talk about the new documentary that she put together, which is also called Isy. And it’s making its rounds in the indie film circuit right now and we’re hoping that it gets picked up through a streaming service.

But I believe she is bringing the film to [00:31:00] the East coast. So we, we will be able to go to a showing and see the Isky film firsthand. But if you missed that, go back into our catalog Break Fix and check out the episode with Cheyenne Kane so you can get up to speed on all things. Ed Arian.

Executive Producer Tania: In other tragic and sad news, we’ve lost a veteran legendary actor,

Crew Chief Brad: James Vander Beak.

Crew Chief Eric: That too.

Executive Producer Tania: The greatest racing movie of all time Days of Thunder. We have lost Robert Dugal at age nine five.

Crew Chief Eric: Now he can eat all the ice cream he wants.

Executive Producer Tania: Robin’s racing, baby.

Crew Chief Eric: We need to revisit that movie. That’s what we need to do next with Steven. Well, we

Executive Producer Tania: said we’ve, we’ve said we were gonna do it, but now it’s even

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, we gotta fast forward that.

We gotta get that done.

Crew Chief Brad: Let’s watch it on the 27th.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go. Get together with them that I think they’re a good tribute. Robert Devo, I’m gonna bring out some, I’m gonna get you some ice cream. Come on down here.

Crew Chief Brad: We’ll, we’ll go to the, the Moo or whatever up there by you and [00:32:00] then go Yeah. And go watch these of thunder.

Crew Chief Eric: Can I rub a little sweet and low packet on your leg too while we watch it or what?

Crew Chief Brad: I’ll be sure to wear my short shorts. Stop the car. Cole. Stop the.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I would say that we would move on to our regularly scheduled ranting and raving at this point, but this is like Monty Python, like, bring out you dead. Bring out you dead. And then next we’re like, I’m not dead yet. Not dead yet. Speaking of not dead yet, I thought the boxer and the Cayman were gone.

Like, I’m so confused what’s going on at Porsche right now. But apparently they’re back. Back in a weird way because there’s the Ev Cayman and the EV boxer, but then they’re talking about getting in bed with Toyota and doing this collaboration MR two boxer thing. And I’m like, what? Since [00:33:00] when I, I’m just gonna say since when does Porsche need Toyota’s help to build something like a boxer or a Cayman, which they’ve been making now since the nineties.

Like, come on. Really

Executive Producer Tania: just. Sell something. It doesn’t cost over six figures.

Crew Chief Eric: Even the Caymans cost six figures now.

Executive Producer Tania: Well that’s kind of the point of this is they’re saying they’re basically pushing out younger people that don’t have the money to afford a Porsche anymore. Because where’s the 9 44? That was like the poor man’s Porsche to go buy

Crew Chief Eric: and they only did that ’cause Ferrari had the 3 0 8, so they had to compete in that space.

Right. Also to get themselves outta bankruptcy. I mean, it is the card to save Porsche during the eighties, but yes to to that end. Where is the 9 44? Where is the 9 28? You could make the argument that the Panamera replaced the 9 28 in some respects, but where’s that front engine rear drive? Near perfect weight distribution, grand Tour or Sport Coupe?

I guess that the 9 44 was, but yeah,

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t [00:34:00] know. Is the idea to go to Toyota because lower costs? Yeah, because also, ’cause you’ve already had the Porsche. Volkswagen, you already had the Porsche Audi. Like why would you. Not just go revisit that pool. They’re your same company.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t get it. It makes no sense

Executive Producer Tania: other than what are you saving with A GTI that’s $60,000.

So

Crew Chief Brad: yeah, because ’cause neither of those companies are making cars that anybody wants. At least Toyota still is

Executive Producer Tania: for now.

Crew Chief Brad: For now.

Crew Chief Eric: You can’t tell me that Volkswagen can’t build a boxer with a GTI engine in it and let’s call it a day. I mean, why are we going to Toyota?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know.

Crew Chief Eric: It doesn’t make any sense.

It’s not like they produce anoth yet another boxer yet another Cayman. They’re gonna outsource the chassis and all that to Toyota. That doesn’t make, again, it doesn’t make any sense.

Executive Producer Tania: Toyota, a company which currently has three different front engine rear wheel drive based force cars on their three separate vehicle platforms, in addition to performance variants of the Corolla and Yaris, which again doesn’t make any sense.

So Volkswagen, Audi [00:35:00] have plenty of front engine cars. Porsche, you know how to make a rear wheel drive car. You’re telling me you can’t put the two together on your own?

Crew Chief Eric: No. No.

Crew Chief Brad: Let’s unpack that. Toyota has three,

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know which those are

Crew Chief Brad: front engine and three wheel drive sports cars. They’ve got the BRZ

Crew Chief Eric: GT 86,

Crew Chief Brad: the, yeah, the G 86.

Now the GR 86, which they built with Subaru, and then the Supra, which they built with BMW. What’s the other one? They, they don’t

Executive Producer Tania: make the super anymore. Well, I guess they knew how to,

Crew Chief Brad: yeah, but they didn’t though because they built it with another manufacturer.

Executive Producer Tania: BMW.

Crew Chief Brad: When’s, yeah, when’s the last time they built a rear wheel drive?

A front engine, rear wheel drive car themself.

Crew Chief Eric: The third one is a Lexus. That’s the one you’re missing?

Executive Producer Tania: Mm.

Crew Chief Brad: Okay, so then Porsche should go to Lexus.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, why would Porsche not go to BMW or Mercedes? Why would you not stay German?

Crew Chief Eric: That’s verboten

Crew Chief Brad: because fuck those guys. That’s what I, I guarantee you it’s a, it’s a fuck those guys kind of thing.

I

Crew Chief Eric: can you imagine a A GR 86 with like a Porsche body on top of it. How pathetic [00:36:00] is that gonna be? You can’t tell me Volkswagen can’t build this and put a freaking two liter turbo. GTI motor up front

Executive Producer Tania: Volkswagen knows how to make rear engine cars too. The beetle.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. A hundred years ago. I don’t know. I almost wanna be like, this is a farce, but the news came from the Porsche Club directly, so I’m like, well, maybe there’s some credibility to this.

I just don’t, I don’t get it. It actually kind of infuriates me in a way, like, what the hell is Porsche doing? They just wanna sell nine elevens and that’s it.

Executive Producer Tania: They’re like only interested in the m mr two that Toyota’s allegedly coming back with.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay. And you said something to me the other day, which is really important about this particular part of the conversation.

Currently at the helm of Toyota, we have an enthusiast, right? All the Gazoo stuff that’s going on, but what’s about to happen at Toyota?

Crew Chief Brad: But that’s changing.

Executive Producer Tania: They’re putting a bean counter in charge.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So who’s Porsche gonna get their m mr two sports Coop from?

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, [00:37:00] granted, this article, a guest came out before the Toyota announcement.

Maybe Porsche didn’t know and now they’re gonna have to be like, nevermind.

Crew Chief Eric: Scotty didn’t know. Scotty didn’t know. Scotty didn’t know. Because at

Executive Producer Tania: them two ain’t happening with the bean counter in

Crew Chief Eric: charge. No, it’s not. It’s not. That’s gonna get canceled. That’s probably one of the first things that’s gonna get canceled.

’cause they’re gonna go back to making super boring corollas and CELs and stuff. Now that there’s not an enthusiast in charge of Toyota,

Executive Producer Tania: bring the Avalon back.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh God no, please.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m, I’m reading this. It seems like this is all pie in the sky and there’s nothing going. This is just what this writer has said.

You can’t help but daydream about what a collaboration between Toyota and Porsche on an affordable, vintage, and sports car would look like. So this is all bullshit. We got clickbait.

Crew Chief Eric: So that being said, how many Porsche club owners suddenly got out their torches and their pitchforks? ’cause I’d be pissed off.

Who’s writing for PCA these days? ’cause this isn’t the first time we’ve come across articles where it’s like, [00:38:00] who wrote this?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, first of all, it was written poorly.

Crew Chief Brad: This is Brad. This is Bradley Iger.

Crew Chief Eric: Must be a Brad thing.

Crew Chief Brad: What? When was the last time I wrote an article?

Crew Chief Eric: So speaking of things that, thank God they’re dead.

Did you know Audi was gonna enter the pickup truck market?

Executive Producer Tania: Who?

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna say that again. Audi pickup truck. They called it the active sphere concept.

Crew Chief Brad: Active fear.

Crew Chief Eric: Dude, look at this thing.

Executive Producer Tania: But that’s not a pickup truck. That just happens to be a like lift gate that you can stick your bike out the back.

Crew Chief Eric: Tesla redefined what it is to be a pickup truck. That’s a pickup truck. Now

Crew Chief Brad: there’s not a pickup truck.

Executive Producer Tania: I would

Crew Chief Eric: not, doesn’t look like a cyber truck.

Executive Producer Tania: Thank God it doesn’t look like a cyber truck. But also it doesn’t look like a pickup truck.

Crew Chief Eric: It also has the same amount of trunk space as a cyber truck is pretty terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, you can’t even put the bike all the way in The fuck is that shit. I’m sorry. Just put a bike rack on the back. Why are you never? That is the dumbest.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks so stupid,

Executive Producer Tania: useless crap. [00:39:00] What is that? I’m sorry. That’s stupid.

Crew Chief Eric: I just like the fact that it has like a reverse sunroof. Did you see how the trunk opens?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t wanna see it anymore. This is Ong, like you just wasted any sort of cargo space to hang your bike halfway in. It’s still halfway out. Leave the damn thing all the way out.

Crew Chief Brad: It gets better. If you click on the other article about it, the Audi active seer concept a little further down. It’ll take you to another article.

There’s a picture of it with golf clubs in the back and you can’t close the boot with the golf clubs in the back. Oh, where?

Executive Producer Tania: Where, how do I click that? Where do I click that? I don’t see a link.

Crew Chief Eric: Here’s the best part of all that. All right. As you read this article, you realize this is Volkswagen Audi at its finest because they are competing with themselves because they can’t leave well enough alone.

All of this atmosphere. Comes from the fact that they’re gonna make a pickup truck over at Scout, which is owned by Volkswagen because they can’t just swim in one lane. So now we’re going back to, [00:40:00] well, if, if Scout has a pickup, then Volkswagen has to have one. An Audi has to have one. Next thing you know, there’s gonna be a Porsche badged pickup truck, probably built by Toyota.

It’ll be a Tundra with a Porsche badge on it. But this is stupid.

Executive Producer Tania: Why would you drive around with your golf clubs exposed? Aren’t they really expensive of a good set?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes,

Crew Chief Brad: could be. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: This is so

Crew Chief Eric: stupid

Executive Producer Tania: dumb.

Crew Chief Brad: So you were asking earlier, why wouldn’t Porsche just go to Volkswagen and Audi? This is why this is the bullshit that they’re fucking making.

Porsche is like, no, thank you. We’ll, outsource

Executive Producer Tania: Porsche is like, I want rear real drive, front engine, mid, mid-engine, super sports car for the people in in Volkswagen, I was like, here’s about this pickup truck that doesn’t actually fit a golf club. This is sad.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of things that are bad and apparently still on the table, I’m gonna keep bringing this car up until it goes away.

But unfortunately, it is, quote unquote, the new design language for Audi. Audi [00:41:00] confirms the concept C project still on. Despite the rumors, this ugly heinous eyesore won’t go away.

Executive Producer Tania: What would you rather this AI generated? Crap. It’s not even real. What would you rather this or the pickup truck?

Crew Chief Eric: Am I allowed to burn it to the ground?

Crew Chief Brad: It’ll burn itself to the ground. It’s electric.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s true. God, they’re terrible. They’re all terrible. Oh man. This is bad for some angles and the other one’s bad from some angles. If we could maybe smash them into each other, we could have one decent looking car. ’cause the front of the other one’s not bad, but the, the back of this one’s horrendous.

God,

Crew Chief Brad: I think you mean smash them into each other and destroy both of them. I think that’s what you’re meant to say.

Crew Chief Eric: The end result. Yes. This, they’re just terrible. I do like that one picture of this heinous AI car, and there’s this black hole and it says, this is just the beginning.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Of the end.

Crew Chief Eric: Pretty much like that is, that’s the shoot where the poop goes.

Crew Chief Brad: [00:42:00] Open butt hole,

Crew Chief Eric: inter,

Crew Chief Brad: inter suppository.

Crew Chief Eric: Again, there’s certain car companies we say we’re not gonna talk about, and then they just poof, come up with something else that we can’t resist talking about and maybe this should be part of the showcase, which as you notice, there’s a theme here we’re continuing to extend throughout the episode.

BMW’s new M three. All I have to say is quad motor and not the petrol kind. Is this the nail in the coffin for the M three? Is this what’s gonna kill it?

Crew Chief Brad: Probably. It

Executive Producer Tania: needs quad motors because it weighs 10 million pounds.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh my God, it’s so awful.

Crew Chief Brad: 5,000 pounds.

Executive Producer Tania: You know what? Honestly, it’s hard to tell what it’s gonna look like since it’s under total camo, this, that, and the other.

The front, what you can see of it, is sort of reminiscent of a 2002 in the grill style with the lights, which if done correctly. Might not even be a bad [00:43:00] thing. Be better than those buck tooth, badger kidney grill things that have been going on recently. But I thought BM BMW was one of the ones that was all about the combustion.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. Until they’re not when it suits them. Tell me that The back of that doesn’t look like a Pontiac G eight

Executive Producer Tania: from the one angle. Yes. Or Alexis.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s really big too.

Crew Chief Brad: If you go a little further down, there’s a link. It’s the new electric M three lapping the berg ring.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah, I did see that. Uh

Executive Producer Tania: oh yeah, I see that.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m sorry. But to add insult to injury, and we didn’t get to talk about this last time, so it fits right in here with this car’s gonna be put together with that screw, that BMW made. That’s impossible to screw unless you have their special. Have you seen this thing?

Executive Producer Tania: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: The screw head is a round L. I mean, there’s schwabing tools and then there’s this kind of insanity.

And when that strips, because it will,

Executive Producer Tania: you’re fucked. You just gonna have to get a new car. [00:44:00]

Crew Chief Eric: The whole car’s gonna be put together with these. It’s bad enough when they use torques, the six points like This is stupid.

Executive Producer Tania: What happened to Right. To repair what?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. They’re gonna find a way to take that away from you without having to do it with the laws.

They’ll make everything some special, ridiculous tool.

Crew Chief Brad: I think this is creating a whole new aftermarket for screws and people. BMW owners are just gonna buy a kit for like $1,500 to replace all of their screws.

Crew Chief Eric: I didn’t think about it that way, but that’s, that’s a good point.

Executive Producer Tania: The new ECS tuning billet screw kit

Crew Chief Eric: for your VW.

Bag of screws. Bag of screws.

Executive Producer Tania: Or you’re gonna get a bunch of people that are gonna 3D print some sort of adapter wrench, screwdriver, or whatever the mechanism is. I don’t know.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, since we’re talking about things that are closing, dying, going away, should remain dead. However you wanna phrase that. We don’t have any new EVs or compec cars.

We don’t have any Asian stuff. We don’t have any bikes. We don’t have any [00:45:00] lost and found. We don’t have any uncool wall. This is a hell of a season closer. We got no Tesla news other than what we already talked about.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, we had the JDM news with the Toyota CEO swap change thing, and then Mazda recently was just awarded, I don’t know if awarded, but apparently they’re now the safest car.

They’ve outshined Volvo in their safety performance record. So look at that. Unexpected.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s awesome. That’s because Volvo’s also run by bean counters and can’t build the safest car, but you make outta tinfoil. You know when they used to make Outta Iron Girders, the same ones that they built the Empire State Building out of?

Yeah. Volvos were safe. That was available on the Volvo, two 40 wagons, iron Bridge girders, but not so much anymore. So moving right along as we fast forward to, seriously what could go wrong. Tanya, I’m gonna ask you this question until you get your Apple subscription.

Executive Producer Tania: Nope.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you watch the F1 movie?

Executive Producer Tania: No.

But apparently they’re already in talks for another F1 [00:46:00] movie.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you gonna wait for the second one and watch ’em back

Executive Producer Tania: to back? What would you call F1 the movie two. F two

Crew Chief Brad: FU.

Executive Producer Tania: We just went backwards from F1 to F two to F three. We’re getting slower.

Crew Chief Brad: God, it would be two F1.

Executive Producer Tania: I have not seen it yet. Pose when the Apple subscription’s unlocked, I suppose I will then Grace the movie with my eyeballs.

Crew Chief Brad: We’ll add it to the list. We’ll watch it after Days of Thunder.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go. I don’t see what a sequel would bring to the table.

Is Brad Pick gonna be in it again?

Executive Producer Tania: No spoilers.

Crew Chief Eric: I want all the spoil. Uh, all right. We started off this conversation talking a little bit about the Olympics and talking about the Super Bowl. So we have some winter sports and obviously, you know, we’re gonna talk about Rolex here in a minute and stuff like that.

So since we’re in the midst of winter sports [00:47:00] enthusiasm, I’ve been watching a lot of the ski jump. Mm-hmm. And I began to realize, you know, the old Audi commercial where he drove up the ski jump and how fun is that? And you know, how real was that? I guess it, apparently it was very real back in the eighties, but we haven’t let that go in Germany of all places.

They do car competitions in the snow up the mountain.

Executive Producer Tania: Amazing.

Crew Chief Eric: With all these whacked out all wheel drive cars and this video is just unreal.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s amazing.

Crew Chief Eric: My favorite though. My favorite is that quantum station wagon. I wanna know what’s in that.

Executive Producer Tania: That thing was awesome. I mean it outdid the sport. Quatro

Crew Chief Eric: Ballistically quick.

And for those that don’t know, the VW Quantum Station Wagon Synchro is actually an Audi 4,000 underneath. So it’s all in the same family now. The Fox is the one that I was kind of scratching my head. ’cause that shares a lot of 4,000 DNA, but that must have been swapped to all wheel drive. But that too was just a beast.

I was like the [00:48:00] two oldest cars there basically were like the fastest ones. It was, it was awesome.

Executive Producer Tania: It had that powered weight ratio,

Crew Chief Eric: that wagon, it’s like a shot out of a gun.

Crew Chief Brad: The RSS four wagon

Executive Producer Tania: yellow one.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s awesome. It’s a great, great thing.

Crew Chief Brad: This is an amazing event. It’s like,

Executive Producer Tania: I wanna do this.

Crew Chief Eric: I know. I love it. Peak.

Crew Chief Brad: Peak. But it’s snow.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the slowmo instead of the schmo. See, they got to go up and they come across the top and then they come back down. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: But like how stiff is that sport? Quatro? It’s like a board. It just like,

Crew Chief Eric: it doesn’t wanna play ball at all. No, it

Executive Producer Tania: just bounces air under the tires.

No, like it’s so stiff,

Crew Chief Eric: but the sounds, can you imagine hearing all these fire breathing five cylinders just running up the mountain at like 9,000 rpm. It’s amazing.

Crew Chief Brad: We need to find out when this is going on. Next year.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Right.

Crew Chief Brad: Is that black car? Is that a skyline?

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Holy shit. That’s amazing. It’s

Crew Chief Eric: not just Audis.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m pretty sure I saw A BMW earlier.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. There was a BM BMW one series.

Executive Producer Tania: [00:49:00] Well, what’s still the fastest up that hill, I think is the snowmobile.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh my God. The skyline was doing donuts and then he hit the

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: Did the snow baker? Yes

Crew Chief Eric: he did.

Crew Chief Brad: He did the snow machine. This is awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s good stuff. Last time we had asked time, you know, we’re, we were, we started off talking about car commercials and we were supposed to find interesting car commercials for every drive through.

You found something for us?

Executive Producer Tania: No, no, no. So it’s a deep fake. No.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it really?

Executive Producer Tania: It’s clickbait. It’s clickbait. So I was searching celebrity car commercials, right? And then go ahead. And what did I come up with?

COMMERCIAL: Make your move to Chevrolet’s new celebrity.

Executive Producer Tania: The Celebrity Chev. Oh

Crew Chief Brad: no,

Executive Producer Tania: I got Rick rolled. Watch the whole thing. ’cause this is a 1984 baby, so we gotta shout out to the Olympics at the end.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah. [00:50:00] Oh wow. Look at that styling. Hmm. $8,456. Did we convert that to today’s dollars? What is 8,500 in 1984 In today’s dollars,

Crew Chief Brad: if it’s for a Chevy, it’s.

500

Crew Chief Eric: lemons won’t even take that car.

Executive Producer Tania: $26,516 car.

Crew Chief Eric: Damn.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s actually still pretty affordable for today’s dollars.

Crew Chief Eric: I wouldn’t want it though for that price.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, yeah. I’d rather have an Ultima.

Executive Producer Tania: So I will warn that you can go down a rabbit hole on Celebrity Chevrolet or commercial that exists.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh man. Ha ha.

Again, seriously, what could go wrong?

Executive Producer Tania: And then the celebrity Chevrolet car commercials lead to the Beretta Ooh Chevrolet car commercials. Ooh. And the Beretta was the Heartbeat Chevrolet.

Crew Chief Eric: I drove a Beretta. I know somebody that owned a Beretta. I got her to buy a Volkswagen instead. It was a good move.

Executive Producer Tania: But I have some leads on some actual celebrities in car commercials.

I left this one in [00:51:00] ’cause it Rick rolled me and then it had the Olympics tie in. So full circle moment.

Crew Chief Eric: No book club this month ’cause I’m in the middle of reading a book. We will move on to rich people. Thanks.

There’s a Ferrari ev coming out.

Executive Producer Tania: What a clever day.

Crew Chief Eric: The lu chick, which means

Executive Producer Tania: light and not ’cause it weighs little,

Crew Chief Eric: no, it weighs as much as the Hummer. Evie co-designed by apple’s. Johnny, ive

Executive Producer Tania: Who Just kidding.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m sure William will do a whole episode about this on the Ferrari marketplace. Let’s just do our own little review of what we know about the Ferrari Luce and what everybody’s raving about is its interior.

Executive Producer Tania: The interior looks like a toy,

Crew Chief Eric: right?

Executive Producer Tania: Who made that toy when we were in our generation with kids and you had that little console of a car.

Crew Chief Eric: Don’t say it’s the racing thing where it like moves around on the little black screen with the knobs.

Executive Producer Tania: Not quite that, but there was the other one with the steering [00:52:00] wheel and had like the little like yellow shifter thing.

Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: the Fisher pricey thing. Yay.

Executive Producer Tania: I think it was the Fisher-Price thing. I’m not sure. I don’t wanna offend Fisher-Price, but this reminds, gives me vibes of that Fisher Price store. I don’t,

Crew Chief Brad: Hey, this has the iconic three spoke studio. Hey,

Crew Chief Eric: now. Oh, is that a speak and spell? What is that?

Executive Producer Tania: The steering wheel thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, there, see, it’s the modern version.

Executive Producer Tania: This is the modern version.

Crew Chief Eric: God,

Executive Producer Tania: little yellow Ferrari on the center. You’re good to go.

Crew Chief Eric: Like I have mixed feelings about this. I really think despite the fact that the dash is like digital, I think it looks really cool. It’s very like eighties Ferrari with the dials and the way they look, even though they’re fake, but the rest of it is way too iPhone.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, you said it was a dude from Apple.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. It’s just no. What do you think about it from the outside?

Executive Producer Tania: You know, honestly, they’ve made uglier Ferraris, but it doesn’t look like a [00:53:00] Ferrari.

Crew Chief Eric: If you painted this dark green and put some lateral aerodynamic roof rails on it, would this look like the Hyundai?

Executive Producer Tania: Like if you took the emblems off of it,

Crew Chief Eric: would you believe it was a genesis?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, I would believe this is a Japanese car. If it didn’t have Ferrari badges on it.

Crew Chief Eric: I like the AI Recolored yellow one that looks even.

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know if this is actually the final version of it. So who knows what it’ll actually look like.

We all can’t afford it, so there you go.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah, that’ll be 350,000 to start for sure. This goes back to the Stellantis EV thing. Does Ferrari have to make an ev? This is where they lost $26 billion creating this thing that nobody wants, that nobody’s, how well did the Pru Sangwe sell?

Executive Producer Tania: If you can afford a Ferrari, I don’t know why.

You care about the price of fuel,

Crew Chief Eric: right?

Executive Producer Tania: And you probably, not all but percentage. You don’t care about the environment either.

Crew Chief Eric: Smoke, what are you saying? What are you, take that time.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m [00:54:00] just saying sometimes when you have too much money, you don’t care about things.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, that’s rich people things. So, yeah, I’m sure William will do an episode about this in the future, but I also do want to give him a quick shout out.

He got together with Chris Meley from Prancing Horse of Nashville to go behind the scenes and talk about the truth of the Bachman collection and the sale that happened in Mecu. A lot of people are still up in arms about why did they sell for so much, why this, why that, and blah, blah, blah, blah. So William called up Chris and said, Hey, you were the broker behind all this.

Let’s have a real candid conversation about what happened during the sale of the Bachman collection. So that episode is in our catalog. You can’t get any closer to the source of truth than the guy that actually sold the cars. So check it out in our catalog and tune in for other Ferrari Marketplace episodes as we continue Rich people ths.

Do we have an extra value meal this month, Tanya?

Executive Producer Tania: I did not capture one this month.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, well then we’re gonna move right along to fan [00:55:00] favorite. Are you faster than an interceptor?

Executive Producer Tania: I swear we did this one already. ’cause I remember a

Crew Chief Eric: no, no, no. We talked about it, but we didn’t do it.

Executive Producer Tania: Is that what it is? Yes. So remember having the conversation of figuring out what it was.

Crew Chief Eric: Correct, but we never talked about it on the drive through.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. I literally went and pulled up this last one, thinking we did it already then.

So the first one is a Michigan MAN story, if I have that correct?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, you do.

Executive Producer Tania: And apparently at the Detroit Metro Airport, McNamara Terminal. Someone decided that that was where the car park was and they blazed through, which is confusing. ’cause then essentially they, the speed at which they were going, we all have been to an airport, the [00:56:00] road and the airport terminal.

They’re parallel to each other. Like it’s really diff it’s not an intersection of some sort. Right. Like, so to carry that much speed and like enter perpendicularly into a building, it’s quite impressive. And I wish there was like an outside camera. There

Crew Chief Eric: is. I found it and then I lost the link.

Executive Producer Tania: Ugh.

Crew Chief Eric: He comes barreling down.

He must like and hooks a hard right turn.

Executive Producer Tania: Handbrake turn into the, into the thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: Which is a modern car. So there’s no handbrake to pull on. But man, he must have just yanked all the

Crew Chief Eric: steering wheel. You just cranked the wheel and then stood on it

Executive Producer Tania: and we decided it was a Mercedes.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, it was a Mercedes.

Maybe he, he had clear plus. Plus. That’s the new perk. You could just drive straight into the airport.

Crew Chief Brad: He thought TSA precheck would curse this.

Crew Chief Eric: I love how they drag him out of there and he is wearing like a Detroit Lions jersey and he’s just yelling like, wow, that guy went to jail. He did not pass, go. He did not collect $200.

Crew Chief Brad: You think he missed his flight? You

Crew Chief Eric: don’t say,

Executive Producer Tania: I think he’s gonna miss many flights.

Crew Chief Eric: You know [00:57:00] how I’ve said before? Where’s that guy trying to park? Is he trying to park in the store? Trying to park in the airport? He did. This guy did it. He’s like, I can’t get any closer than the Delta terminal counter.

Crew Chief Brad: This reminds me of the, I don’t know if you all have seen the videos of people doing this on Instagram when they drive past like an accident or something, or somebody does something stupid with their car as they’re driving by, they’re filming and they say, Hey, you can’t park there at the most inopportune time.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it goes right along with this next one, which is same, same but different. Brad, this is in your great state of Virginia. I’ll read the headline. Car on Metro TrackX shuts down traffic on I 66.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s

impressive.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. I don’t consider Fairfax County part of Virginia. That’s Maryland adjacent right there.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey, it’s below. It’s on the other side of the river. That’s yours and you can keep it.

Crew Chief Brad: No, no, no, no. We’ll, we’ll take Tiger Woods.

Executive Producer Tania: So if you look, I don’t know exactly where this is on 66. I’m sure I’ve passed it at some point, but they’re basically a ramp. [00:58:00] So he must have like ramped shot over the fence and landed on the tracks.

Crew Chief Eric: He went full Bo Duke.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, this

Crew Chief Eric: is Duke’s a hazard right here.

Executive Producer Tania: Honestly, at first I was like, how do you do that? But then seeing the ramp, you could a hundred percent jump that fence. And end up on the tracks. And what does that look like? A Honda?

Crew Chief Eric: I’m trying to tell by the lights. I think it might be a Hyundai.

Or It’s a Honda. It’s one or the, it’s close. It’s probably a Honda though.

Executive Producer Tania: Can’t tell.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s not an Ultima. Actually, if it had been an Ultima, he would’ve driven away from this. Yes. They would’ve caught him driving down the railroad tracks at like 80 miles an hour. Because it would’ve survived. Because as you said, the Altima is here for all of it.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes. It’s,

Crew Chief Brad: I like how they say it’s an unauthorized car.

Executive Producer Tania: I, you know,

Crew Chief Brad: excuse me, sir. You’re unauthorized. You can’t be here.

Executive Producer Tania: I dare say that. Yes, that was unauthorized. It was not a car with the, uh, train wheels on it that was meant to [00:59:00] be going down the tracks for service.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Brad, you brought us this next one.

Crew Chief Brad: I didn’t actually read it,

so let’s all read it together.

Crew Chief Eric: Florida man arrested after 13 hit and run crashes on Valentine’s Day.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Over the course of like five hours. Five and a half hours.

Crew Chief Eric: Police report. The 34-year-old is a Florida resident that lives at him as currently homeless. No, he lives in the jail. That’s where he lives right now.

He covered 80 miles smashing into cars

Crew Chief Brad: and Chevy Colorado is in rough shape. No shit.

Executive Producer Tania: Was this a whistling diesel? No, I’m just kidding.

Crew Chief Eric: It kind of looks like that, doesn’t it?

Executive Producer Tania: You know, they don’t talk much.

Crew Chief Eric: The Florida men or what?

Executive Producer Tania: We don’t know anything. Like why was

he

Executive Producer Tania: drunk? Was he on drugs? Was there an alligator in the car with him?

Crew Chief Eric: It’s, it’s none of that. We just, it’s not a very well written Florida man story, but it was a Valentine’s Day Florida man. Story. Story. It’s [01:00:00] important that we highlighted it. Vehicular nonsense. On Valentine’s Day,

Crew Chief Brad: man. This was in Virginia as well.

Crew Chief Eric: Starting to see a pattern here.

Executive Producer Tania: It was a Florida man in Virginia.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, you’re right. You are right. Sylvania County. Did he crash his way up from Florida?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, these are just the Virginia cars. They’re still,

Executive Producer Tania: oh man.

Crew Chief Brad: You know the Carolinas in Georgia down there.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh man. This next one is like that song. What’s that song? About how she slashes the seats of the car and the tires and like she vandalizes the jeep.

What? How’s that song?

Executive Producer Tania: Louisville Slugger. That’s how the song goes. The Louisville Slugger to his taillights. Some some something. Something something Something something. Something something.

Crew Chief Eric: Keep Your Day Job.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, carry Underwood song.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah, yeah, yeah. That would, you can sing it for us, Brad. Yeah.

Pancakes and sausage and stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. I, I came, yeah. I can’t sing Gary Underwood. Sorry,

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t remember that song. It’s like god knows how old now. 2005. It’s [01:01:00] 20 years old.

Crew Chief Eric: Play it on the radio. Like if it was just yesterday. ‘

Crew Chief Brad: cause you’re listening to the oldie station.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Right. What is going on here?

Executive Producer Tania: Apparently this dude at the Publix, he mistook the SUV that was parked there thinking it was his ex. And so in a fit of rage of revenge and God knows what are the drugs they were on, basically, I think took a hammer. It started like beating on the car, except it was actually a Publix employee’s car.

It had nothing to do with this person.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh wow. Can you imagine?

Executive Producer Tania: Can you imagine coming outside and it’s like your car is destroyed like this?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, that’s terrible. What is in the water down there? That’s what I wanna know.

Executive Producer Tania: I dunno.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, on that note, it’s time we go behind the pit wall. Talk about,

I don’t even know what to say about this one. IJ maybe I should just read the headline. President Trump [01:02:00] celebrates American greatness with the Freedom two 50 Grand Prix of Washington DC

Executive Producer Tania: sounds like a terrible idea.

Crew Chief Eric: Indie cars in DC

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, I guess, Hey, DC’s finally gonna get paved the streets.

Crew Chief Eric: No, there’s no chance in hell.

They didn’t pave Baltimore when they ran the Grand Prix there. You think they’re gonna pave dc? Yeah, right. What about the manhole cover? They’re gonna have the same problem that F1 has in Vegas with manhole covers flying off everywhere.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, we’re not gonna make it one laugh of this race

Crew Chief Eric: then. It’s never gonna happen.

It’s gonna be terrible. Well,

Executive Producer Tania: there’s that.

Crew Chief Brad: There’s just gonna race in their dailies.

Crew Chief Eric: Somebody asked what the ticket prices were gonna be for this. And I said, they’re gonna be huge.

Executive Producer Tania: They can pay me to stay away.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, a hundred percent. That’s the day I take a vacation on the other side of the country.

Crew Chief Brad: Wait, were you guys aware that the Daytona 500 happened this weekend?

Crew Chief Eric: I was aware

Crew Chief Brad: we are not going to, we’re not gonna [01:03:00] mention the Daytona 500.

Executive Producer Tania: We’re not gonna mention the massive crass on the last lap that wiped out like half the field or something like

Crew Chief Brad: that.

Oh no, the, the, yeah, the, the complete insanity that was the last lap that basically handed, it didn’t hand. Michael Jordan’s team number 45. The win,

Crew Chief Eric: I can’t name three drivers in NASCAR right now.

Crew Chief Brad: The only reason I know about it’s ’cause I was at a bar watching the hockey game and then it ended and then there were like five laps left.

Crew Chief Eric: So you saw the most important part of the race. Then

Crew Chief Brad: of course it’s the most important part of anything the last five minutes.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s sad to say because it is NASCAR month and all of our coverage on the empty N is NASCAR related. But I, I haven’t followed NASCAR in a while. Like I, I think I’m just stuck in the eighties with nascar like Rusty Wallace still out there.

Executive Producer Tania: We got what days have done

Crew Chief Brad: had I not been out already watching something else, I would not have known.

Crew Chief Eric: You would’ve missed it all together. Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: I would, would’ve missed it all together. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Um, but yeah, congratulations to Tyler Reddick and his number 45 car and the Michael Jordan team for finally getting that big [01:04:00] win at Daytona

Crew Chief Eric: and didn’t Biffle pass or something recently too, like that was in the news as well as with respect to nascar.

Executive Producer Tania: Um, by, you mean die in a plane crash?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. I was trying to be nice about it

Executive Producer Tania: tragically with his family. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. That’s the,

Crew Chief Eric: uh, sad news there too. Hmm. Much like the Super Bowl this year’s Rolex, the 60th anniversary race. Oh my God, was it boring? Why is everything on Peacock so boring? There were 900,000 Olympic commercials, which made the coverage just completely meh to go along with their meh commercial that they show all the time for YouTube tv.

It was really hard to watch. I don’t know what it was about this race. And then we had what that fog delay in the middle of the night. So if you went to sleep like I did, ’cause you’re like, man, there’s nothing to watch right now. You didn’t miss anything when you got up in the morning. It was such a bad race.

And then I don’t understand Porsche, well, it’s Penske, right, because Porsche retired the 9 63. But the 9 63 is still competing this year, but we’re not gonna see it at Lamont unless [01:05:00] Penske, you know, it’s like a whole thing. Realistically, the most interesting thing about the whole race. Was that battle between the GT Amateur class, not even the pros.

Everybody was so spread apart. It was the amateurs between the Mercedes and the Aston. And I was like, what are we watching?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I didn’t get to watch much of the race.

Crew Chief Eric: You didn’t miss much,

Crew Chief Brad: apparently.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, since we’re talking about Rolex, Tanya, you watched the race. I think the most exciting part was the new Reptile tire technology.

Remember that?

Executive Producer Tania: I didn’t watch the race.

Crew Chief Eric: We talked about the reptile tires. Remember they looked like crocodile print and how Michelin is all about sustainability and it’s made from like 90% recycled materials and, but then they had all those issues when it got cold so the tires wouldn’t stick so that everybody’s like flying off the track.

Executive Producer Tania: Now I remember. Only watched for like an hour.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you didn’t miss much. So out of the other 23 that were there, it was like me. So anyway, there’s some more news shaking up the endurance car world. The FIA [01:06:00] is bringing about a new streaming service and they’re combining it with wec. So they have FIA we plus streaming service

Crew Chief Brad: because does this mean it’s not gonna be on HBO anymore?

Crew Chief Eric: It says here it’s the goal is delivering a significantly improved streaming service with access to all FIA we content worldwide. So that should include the 24 hours of lamont.

Crew Chief Brad: Did you ever watch any of the Super bike races on HBO?

Crew Chief Eric: No, I didn’t. Did you?

Crew Chief Brad: I tried, but the color was weird. Like wasn’t an HDR or It didn’t, it wasn’t compatible with my HDR tv, so it looked all gray and washed out.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh wow.

Crew Chief Brad: Which may me not wanna launch.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And it says we are pleased to confirm that all FIA WEC races will be available in the United States in Canada with no GEOBLOCKING restrictions. Most notably the 24 hours LAMA will be available live on FIA WEC streaming platform for the first time ever in the United States.

Marketing in major milestone and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. I don’t know what this means because isn’t there a lot of shuffling going on at [01:07:00] HBO because it’s partnered with Warner Brothers and all that other stuff and maybe Netflix is buying it so that the FIA say, you know what, we’re not here for this guy as we’re just gonna go do our own streaming platform.

Crew Chief Brad: Maybe.

Crew Chief Eric: Maybe no hobo Max for WEC races anymore. So that was like a two year run, getting outta racing. All right. Well, a quick update on the virtual stuff I’ve mentioned in the past. You know, I’ve got some of the newer titles been trying ’em out. A SETO corset, Evo just got updated to version 0.5. We’re not even a version 1.0.

But 0.5 just got pushed the other day. Bunch of new cars. There’s like seven of them and then there’s two new tracks. Gotta say Watkins Glen is one of the new tracks and it is spot on. It’s the new track, definitely laser scanned. It is really good. Just very well done. Now as far as the cars go, not gonna list all of ’em, you know, new nine 11 new, this new that they introduced the Audi Sport Quattro.

It’s an absolute beast.[01:08:00]

They brought the mark one GTI, and to keep with realism. It is slower than slow.

It struggles to get to a hundred miles an hour. But it is an absolute riot when you’re out there with 25 other ones just beating the doors and, and going bumper to bumper down the track. Now, the surprise of surprises because their little trailer video, which I shared with you guys, which I thought was super entertaining when they revealed version [01:09:00] 0.5 at the very end, there’s this whole kind of initial DA 86 and then they kind of forecast what’s gonna come in the next release, which is gonna be Sebring and a bunch of stuff.

So that a 86, I was like, you know, I’m gonna try that out. I mean, again, these cars are talking to me, they’re all from the eighties. I’m loving it. And so I’m looking through the cars. There’s a couple different versions of the original 80 86. There’s the black and white, there’s the all black, there’s, you know, whatever.

And then at the end there’s the Fuji Tofu Shop, one from initial D, and I’m like, oh, that’s cool. Well, they kind of did the skin and it’s a little blurry so it doesn’t look exactly like, you know, and they don’t get any copyright infringement or whatever it is. I decided, you know, after doing a bunch of laps at Watkins Glen, I was like, oh, I’m gonna go to Laguna Seka instead, and I’ll try the Toyota there.

And it runs in the same class as the Audi and some of the other cars, you know, the BMWM three and the Mercedes 2.3 Evo and all that kind of stuff. I looked down at the dash and I’m like, does that say that? Does that [01:10:00] doesn’t say, no, it can’t. It says 10 10. 10 ISN in 10,000 RPM and I’m like, nah, that’s, that’s a joke.

Light turns green. Drop the clutch.

This sucker is like straight up race car. Like it sounds amazing and you bury the needle at 10 grand because just like the initial D 80, 86, it pulls to 11 and it’s just all of awesome. So I’m like, okay, so it’s the initial D car. Maybe they’re all that way and they’re just skins. Oh, no, no. This is like the jewel that they didn’t tell you about in the promo videos.

This is a special car. It’s not just a skin. All the other regular 80, 80 sixes you get into.[01:11:00]

7,000 RPM. It’s got that nice Toyota twin cam sound, but it doesn’t sound like a formula car like the other one does. The driving experience is awesome. Like you can hang the ass out, you can drift it all over the place and it’s just wicked quick. So I found that to be an awesome surprise and if you haven’t done it and you haven’t tried it yet, cannot recommend upgrading to version 0.5 just for the smile factor that comes from the initial DA 86.

And by the way, they made the F 40 worse, so it’s like impossible to drive. So I’m gonna be having fun driving the Toyota for sure. Kudos to the a Seto course of guys Speed. They might be slow rolling this thing, but it’s, it’s getting better with every release except for the F [01:12:00] 40. In other racing news, I don’t know really where to qualify the 12 hours of bathhurst because it’s sort of endurance racing, but it’s sort of just crazy Australian V eight supercar guys decide to drive something that isn’t a muscle car for 12 hours.

Bathhurst is a mess every year, and I know a lot of people watch it for the crashes. And the crashes are unfortunate. And this year. More so than ever. Mercedes a MG factory driver, Roth Aaron fractured his back in a very serious accident at Mount Panorama. And we have the link to the video and we have a link to the follow on article.

I mean, I watched it and I was completely blown away. I was really surprised that the corner workers didn’t flag earlier. It reminds me of the races at like, it’s like Macau or whatever, where they go those super narrow roads where there’s only room for one car and then they all pile up and the race is over by like lap three.

’cause they’re all, you know, I, I don’t know what the racers are doing. They are, you’re not situationally aware like what the hell is going on. It’s really [01:13:00] unfortunate what happened. Rough. And you know, we wish him a speedy recovery and hope to see him back behind the wheel of a Mercedes again soon. But it’s stuff like that that really makes you question the safety of racing in 2026.

Crew Chief Brad: I think it’s amazing.

Crew Chief Eric: I really do believe Bathurst is probably one of the most dangerous tracks that’s out there.

Crew Chief Brad: I love that track,

Crew Chief Eric: but it’s also super sketch.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh yeah, for sure. But I, it’s still amazing.

Executive Producer Tania: So you missed a piece of Rally news.

Crew Chief Eric: I thought we weren’t talking about, I thought I wasn’t allowed to talk about that.

Executive Producer Tania: I never said that.

Crew Chief Brad: No one listens, but you’re allowed to talk about it.

Crew Chief Eric: So what piece of Rally news did I miss?

Executive Producer Tania: A US. Rally stage.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, you’re right. I forgot. I I am following that as a matter of fact. So WRC is scouting out areas like around Tennessee to see if they can Kentucky, do a WRC America round. And I, and if that happens, I’m gonna go check it out.

I think that’s super awesome.

Executive Producer Tania: There you go.

Crew Chief Eric: Thank you for reminding me. I’ll go

Crew Chief Brad: with you.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s go meet Terry Neville.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes’,

Crew Chief Eric: be perfect. Well, our Motorsports News is [01:14:00] brought to you in part by Enduro verse, powered by Hyper Dev. Endur Averse is America’s premier endurance racing community. Check it out online today and become a member@www.enduraverse.com.

Alright, well it’s time for the GTM Trackside report, and as promised, we’re gonna give you an update on our unfocused Performance Lemons project. It has stalled thanks to two feet of snow, which turned into permafrost and glaciers boxing the cars in the trailers, and so we haven’t been able to get it out to our fabricator to put the cage in.

But that is coming up quick. By the time we have the next drive through episode, hopefully it’ll be off to get the wrap done and get all the styling stuff done. We do still have a way for you to contribute and be part of the team. We’ll include that in the show notes. You know, we are looking to raise some money if you want to come and help out, hang out, all those kinds of things.

The details are in the link in the show notes with this episode. But since we’re taking on this new project and all of us are checking our safety gear, and there’s been some public service [01:15:00] announcements from various tracks around at least the East coast, talking about how if you’re planning to come to the track this year, they’ve taken a year away from you that you normally have a grace year on your helmet.

Expirations.

Crew Chief Brad: You can correct me if I’m wrong, ’cause you’ve been in the sport a lot longer than I have. Was that. Extra year, that grace year kind of due to like supply chain issues with being able to get access. So maybe the supply chain issues aren’t as much of a problem anymore. So you don’t really have that excuse to lean on.

You just need to stop being a cheap ass and upgrade your equipment when you need to.

Crew Chief Eric: 2020 was really the bad year because that was the COVID year.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: but the grace period had always been there because to your point, when they say they’re gonna make a 2025 helmet, they start making them in 2025 and then they have to have enough supply and it becomes an issue and it takes almost a full year before there’s enough out there that people can actually get that year’s helmet in hand.

So you sort of lose a [01:16:00] year, but you gain a year on the other side. But now the tracks are saying, Nope. We have said that even though the industry says 11 years is fine, it’s gotta be 10 and you have to buy a new helmet. So if you’re going to places like New Jersey or a Lime Rock and you have a SA 2015 helmet.

You cannot use it this year. They’re checking helmets, they’re being strict about it. You need to buy a new helmet. You do not get the grace year through 2026. So if you’re looking to get a good deal on helmets, reach out to our friends at OG racing. Ask for Mark Francis at or mark@ogracing.com. Email him directly.

Tell them the guys from Grand Tour Motorsport sent you. And same is true for Limerock. Like I said, NJMP and Limerock are strictly enforcing the role that you need. A new helmet 2020 or newer rated helmets, even if you’re in New England and you have stable energies nearby, they’re offering a 15% discount to Audi Club members if you’re shopping for a new helmet.

Crew Chief Brad: Also, they usually sell helmets [01:17:00] at the track too. They’ve got the, the pro shops at each track where you can get a helmet if you’re in a pinch.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know. I guess you could go either way. There’s no financial gain in it for the racetracks because they’re not selling the helmet. Right. And the pro shops a lot of times are independent of the racetrack.

Like those people actually lease the space from the track and they’re running their small business and all that kind of stuff. Like OG Racing has its shop at Summit Point as well as their main shop there in Sterling. You know, that doesn’t benefit the track. They’re just cracking down and saying, no, you gotta go buy a new helmet.

Because they are safety conscious and they’re safety cautious and we’re litigious country. So it is. It is what it is, right? Yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, I’m still good on my helmet for a while. I know what I’m buying if I buy another one, you know, I’m pretty brand loyal and all that kind of stuff. But for those that haven’t thought about it, as we’re coming out of hibernation and looking to the track season and the schedules are starting to open up, now’s the time to not only check your helmet.

Check your shoes, check your gloves, check your Hans. If you have a Simpson, make sure all the straps are up to date. Like if you co-term all the dates of your stuff, [01:18:00] they’re all gonna be due at the same time. And that goes for your belts in your car. If you’re using harnesses as well as your seats, you gotta check the organizations to make sure the seats are still valid too.

How the seats expire, I don’t know, has to do with the fire safety rating. Go back to our PMX episode with John Koffi. He kind of actually explains how all that works and the dates and and why and whatnot. But that’s pretty far back in the catalog. But yeah, there is rhyme and reason to this whole thing, Brad.

Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you’re not quite ready to hit the track, don’t forget that you can find tons of upcoming local shows and events at the ultimate reference for car enthusiasts, collector car guide.net.

Executive Producer Tania: As we close out this season finale, we want to say thank you and that we appreciate everyone hanging in with us for six seasons, over 600 episodes, but we’re not closing up shop anytime soon.

And we want to remind you that Season seven kicks off in March with our International Women’s Month celebrations and more awesome stories to come. So be sure to jump back into our podcast catalog and check out other programs we offer, like the Ferrari marketplace, the [01:19:00] motoring historian evening with a legend, the racers round table, formula, fanatics, break fix, and of course the drive through.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you enjoy our various podcasts, there’s a great way for you to support our creators on the MPN. There’s tons of extras and bonuses to explore on our updated Patreon page. Learn more about our bonus and behind the scenes content. Get early access to upcoming episodes and consider becoming a break Fix VIP when you visit patreon.com/gt motorsports.

As always, thank you to our co-host and executive producer Tanya, and to all the fans, friends and family who support Grant touring Motorsports, as well as the Motoring Podcast network. Without you, none of this would be possible.

Crew Chief Eric: Remember, Brad, failing to prepare is just preparing to fail. Okay?

Crew Chief Brad: I have to go to the videotape. Let’s see, 2026. Let’s

Executive Producer Tania: pull up the replay.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you muting the [01:20:00] Olympics? Yeah, man. What are you watching?

Executive Producer Tania: I don’t know, because I gotta turn it on. I don’t know what’s on

Crew Chief Eric: Earlier. It was the big hill ski jump. Well, actually it was the Nordic combined, but they were only showing the ski jump part.

That’s good stuff.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, well obviously I could just turn the volume all the way down the old fashioned meat way.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the first time she’s said to go get a snack

Crew Chief Brad: that we’ve seen and consider becoming, shoot. I actually don’t see the outside pictures.

Executive Producer Tania: I had to go to a car and driver article.

Crew Chief Brad: I’ll just Google it.

I don’t know why it went to Yahoo though. Yahoo. Fucking Yahoo. Yeah, no.[01:21:00]

Executive Producer Tania: The drive through is our monthly news episode and is sponsored in part by organizations like Collector Car guide.net Project, motoring Garage Style Magazine, the Exotic Car Marketplace, and many others. If you’re interested in becoming a sponsor of the Drive-Through, look no further than www.motoringpodcast.net.

Click about and then advertising. Thank you again to everyone that supports the Motoring Podcast Network, grand Touring Motorsports, our podcast Break Fix in all the other services we provide.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00:00 Drive-Through News #65 Kickoff
00:01:27 Olympics Banter: Speed Skating, Biathlon & Curling Controversy
00:02:47 Super Bowl Ads: Were There Any Car Commercials?
00:11:57 Best Super Bowl Car Ads of the Last 20 Years (Top 5 Countdown)
00:14:36 Stellantis’ $26B EV Struggle: Charger EV, 4xe Hybrids & What Went Wrong
00:18:01 EPA Rule Swings: Stop-Start, Emissions, and the Return of Big Engines?
00:20:04 Aftermarket Shock: StopTech Stops Making Brakes (and what’s next)
00:22:35 Cars on the Chopping Block: Honda Prelude Hate & Tesla S/X Discontinued
00:24:50 The Grand Tour ‘Returns’: Throttle House Rumors & Why You Can’t Replace the Trio
00:30:19 Legends Lost: Ed Iskenderian Tribute & Robert Duvall Remembered
00:32:35 Porsche ‘Not Dead Yet’: EV Cayman/Boxster and the Toyota MR2 Clickbait
00:38:11 Thank God It’s Dead: Audi’s ‘Pickup Truck’ Concept
00:40:50 Audi’s ‘Concept C’ Design Language: The Ugly EV That Won’t Die
00:42:05 BMW’s Electric M3 Rumors + The Infamous ‘Special Screw’ Repair Nightmare
00:44:47 Season Wrap & Pop Culture Detour!
00:51:04 Ferrari’s First EV ‘Luce’: Toy-Like Interior, Not-Quite-Ferrari Looks
00:54:52 Are You Faster Than an Interceptor?
01:01:49 Behind the Pit Wall: IndyCar in DC, Daytona 500, and a Boring Rolex 24
01:05:54 Sim Racing Update (Assetto Corsa Evo 0.5)
01:12:00 Bathurst Crash, WRC America Rumors, and the GTM Trackside Lemons Project Update
01:14:52 Safety Gear PSA & Season Finale Thanks, Patreon, and Sponsor Shoutouts

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The Wild, Witty & Wondrous Racing Life of Jimmy Maguire

Mountain View

Daniel S

-

February 17, 2026

0

The Wild, Witty & Wondrous Racing Life of Jimmy Maguire

In the world of motorsports, few stories are as jaw-dropping, hilarious, and inspiring as that of Jimmy Maguire – a man who raced with one arm, flipped cars more times than most drivers have laps, and still managed to charm fans, car owners, and even Mario Andretti himself.

At the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing’s Racers Roundtable, Jimmy took center stage, flanked by fellow veterans like Ron Lauer and Lynn Paxton, with a special appearance by Bill Wentz Sr. What followed was a whirlwind of tales that spanned six decades, from dirt tracks to asphalt, from sprint cars to midgets, and even a stint in a truly terrible movie.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Maguire’s career is defined not just by his 52 wins, but by the fact that 31 of them came after he lost his arm in a brutal USAC crash. He didn’t just return to racing—he reinvented himself, designing a custom prosthetic system that allowed him to grip the wheel and keep his foot to the floor. His grit and ingenuity earned him the nickname “Magoo,” courtesy of Bobby Cartright, who once said, “You don’t know where the hell you’re going,” referring to Jimmy’s on-track abilities.

Photo courtesy EMMR; Photo by Edward Radesky

One of the most animated stories involved Hank Rogers Jr., a fellow racer and friend who Maguire claims “got him fired” so Hank could win the championship. The two remained close, trading jabs and memories for decades. Jimmy’s storytelling style – equal parts bravado and self-deprecating humor – made it clear that in racing, friendships and rivalries often blur.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00:00 The Racers Roundtable: Jimmy Maguire
00:01:57 Racing with One Arm: Jimmy’s Story
00:03:34 Rivalries and Championships
00:06:21 Crashes and Comebacks
00:17:13 The Legend of “Magoo”
00:22:35 Mario Andretti: Honoring a Racing Legend
00:35:44 Rehabilitation and Early Racing Days
00:35:52 Winning the Bobby Marsh Memorial Race
00:36:39 Midget Racing and Championships
00:39:54 Other Crashes and Injuries
00:42:19 Racing in Australia
00:47:45 The Queen is the Trophy?
01:02:27 Movie Stunts and Acting
01:06:46 Life After Racing
01:09:16 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Racers Roundtable, a podcast sponsored by the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing where history meets horsepower and legends live on each episode brings together voices from across the motor sports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans as they share stories, insights, and behind the scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys.

Whether you’re a diehard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open wheel icons. The racers round table is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it. Strap in tight because it’s time to talk. Racing history one lap at a time.

Lynn Paxton: We always put the best up here first, and then this is the rest. Okay,

Jimmy Maguire: is this on? Can people hear me? Is this on?

Lynn Paxton: I hope not, but I think it is.

Jimmy Maguire: I can’t hear myself talking

Lynn Paxton: now. I’ve stuck enough [00:01:00] needles in him. I, I want Ron Lauer to work on him here a little bit. My best friend in racing with your, I know I sat side with your background.

I didn’t realize until I read your resume. Yeah, I think your daughter put it out. I don’t know. I, I knew you were, you know, a RDC racer and in one races, and I knew you were A RDC champion won race.

Stink.

Ron Lauer: That’s when you were old and done.

Lynn Paxton: Got a point there. Anyhow, I want you to work on him a little bit. I’m gonna step back from the, the microphone here a little bit.

Ron Lauer: I knew what this was all about. See, Lynn knows that in a three hour segment like this, Jimmy’s gotta take at least six or seven deep breaths and I’m here to fill the gap.

But that’s about it, right? Well, actually I didn’t know Jimmy when he was taking people out at her rides. I was, I was just a kid. And, uh, but when he [00:02:00] had his, uh, accident and came back in the TQS and N-A-R-D-C, I got to know Jimmy, and he really does have a great story. When you go through the whole thing, you just don’t have to hear it as many times.

That’s all know now, really the things you accomplished, I, I know you didn’t race as long with both arms as you did with one, and you won more races with one arm than you did with two.

Lynn Paxton: Yeah.

Ron Lauer: 52 rashes total. 21 with two

Jimmy Maguire: arms and three, one with one on them. Now how many guys have done that? Come on. A

Lynn Paxton: he?

Jimmy Maguire: Yeah. There you go. Yeah. But he had a hand, he just lost his hand. He just, he just lost his hand. I lost the hand. See that’s right here.

Ron Lauer: LER won 52 races two years in a row with one leg. One

Jimmy Maguire: leg. Yeah. And I ran, you are seeing, finished his fourth and points and won three race. And I had my whole leg in a cast on the right side.

When I drove for Harry D and the way I worked the gas pedal, they gave me a test. I took a hammer and I smashed the ball of the cast so I could work the work. The gas pedal, [00:03:00] they took two laps. I just kept the, the gas pedal to the floor. The first two blows went

Lynn Paxton: to the head though, I’ll tell you that.

Jimmy Maguire: Two, two laps around the racetrack, but my foot to the foot and say, okay, can run all way.

Some along in 62. I goes, my crutches. Get in the car and run the car. Won a couple of races, did good. Finish both points so you can run a car with one leg. He should

Ron Lauer: breathe soon. I’m ready. Okay, we’re up here. Lynn’s not up here, so I don’t know what in the world we’re gonna talk about. You wanna talk about it then, or.

About who? Lynn.

Audience Q&A: Oh. Oh,

Ron Lauer: Mr. McCabe has a question for him. What

Audience Q&A: was it like racing with Hank Rogers, Jr.

Jimmy Maguire: Oh, Hank was the buddy man. He sold mine. He sold, listen, his

Audience Q&A: father,

Jimmy Maguire: listen, let me tell you about Hank. I wanted him down here so I could refute it. We raced against each other. A great guy. He ran for Kalen for two years, didn’t win the race, right?

So I appeared on the scene. We were at the Check five pain club and he said, Hey, my, my car owner’s getting another car. Would you like to drive? Oh, I’d love to drive. I didn’t have a ride for a couple years. So he got me a ride with Kaylin. [00:04:00] So I got in and of course I set my own cars up. Kaylin doesn’t set ’em up, right?

And that’s why they never won. So any, and I’m telling you, this is what happened. Anyway, I set the car up and after a couple of races, I won a race. So after I won a race, he set Hank’s car up that way, and Hank started to win races. So all season long was back and forth. I’d went and go ahead and point. So finally I had a little alation one night at the race and some guy, uh.

Call me a bad name. So I punch him in the mouth that, that, uh, suspended me for two races. So then I was still up there and fighting for the championship, two races to go the end of the season, Hank’s about maybe 50 points ahead of me. So we’re going to two asphalt tracks. Thompson, I forget what the, but I was good in asphalt.

Hank wasn’t. So what does his father do? He fires me right at the racetrack. I couldn’t even get, I was with his father going to the racetrack and I had hitch a ride from somebody else to go home and we were three oh oh miles away from home. So anyway, Hank runs, I don’t know, whatever it was, he wins the championship.[00:05:00]

So of course the night of the championship, and I congratulate him, but I kid with ’em all the time because I took my average, what I got for every race I ran, an average every race that Hank got. And if I had to ran the whole season, I would’ve won the championship with the average. If, you know, that doesn’t always happen.

So anyways, father fired me and you know, I still stayed friends. That’s the way it was. You know, guy had this swing about him once in a while and they fire guys. We go to the banquet, congratulate Hank and congratulate everybody. He finished first the championship. I finished second, but I always tell Hank, Hank, you know, I know you’re the champion, but we were gonna make a decision.

We’ve put this before a judge, and I said, I made so many average points per race and I even had so many average points per race. If I ran the whole circuit, I’d beat you. Right. I said before court of law, I’d win the race, I’d win the championship. So I was, so this is a ongoing thing with Hank and I, but he’s officially the A RDC champ for that year, and I finished second, but we always get together and we river on that, you know?

So [00:06:00] anyway, that’s what we is, and it gets him fired up. That’s why I wanted him here today. Get him fired up and he couldn’t make it. Great friend. Great guy.

Lynn Paxton: When you bump Wednesday out of that ride, that was over 60 years ago. Do you realize that? I know

Jimmy Maguire: that, I know. It was 1962 and it’s 19 2 23. So it’s 60 years in 1 61 years.

Yeah. Yeah. And I’m still here, so I must have done something. Right before that, we had a racer, Richmond, Virginia. I blew the engine to Harry D’s car. So there was another guy that wrecked his car. So I said, Hey, can we change engines? Okay, we up at Williams Grove. It was a seven hour ride to Richmond. We rode up, cut to Williams Grove at seven o’clock next Sunday morning.

We changed it. Took the engine out of a bunch of guys, helped me. We had a two by four in the field. We had spectators watching. Two by four. We lifted the engine out, took the engine out of Brownie sky, went to put it in. I had an eight tooth spine on the transmission heat at 10th. By this time it was one o’clock in the afternoon.

There I ran the heat. Bill [00:07:00] hints ran like that was right. He ran the heat, whatever he finished. So anyway, we get up the next day, one o’clock we couldn’t do. I’m sitting there like this. The car owner from cys or whatever cys car that he was driving. The car owner came over personally and said to me, what are you gonna do now?

I said, well, I don’t have a ride. I’m out of, he said, well, I want you to run the car on the feature. I said, what happened to Cy? He said, I don’t want in my race car. So he said, I want a guy that stands on the gas pedal. I know this. Kyle, go Now what this car was, this was a USAC car, a good car. So I said, I said to him, yeah, I’m a race car driver.

So on the way over there, once he grabs me, he said, where you going? That’s my race car. I said, no, that guy owns the race car. You’re just a driver and he wants somebody that puts the foot to the floor. So all I know is that’s my reputation. So I get in the race car, I start last in the race because first time I’m driving the car and he qualified through the consolation race.

So I start back. So I stepped on the gas bar. Wow. The going down the straightaway passed three cars. I said, wow. Kept my foot to the floor. [00:08:00] Passed before, you know, in four, five laps. I was in second spot. So I said, wow. He said, good car. So all of a sudden they had a red flag. Big stop, crashed someplace. They restart the race cookie os out is on the pole.

Now in those days you didn’t start side by side, you start single file. So Cook, we go in the corner. I’m right behind Cookie Os out. He spins right in front of me. Well, when you spin, he lets the car roll up the racetrack. I’m trying to go around the outside of my left front wheel, hits his left rear wheel.

I do a series of Andover and flips, which made the front lane paper of the illustrated news. I end over and over and I land upside down. Fortunately, I was okay because I held myself in the car, in the robot, saved my life so I get outta the car. So once he comes over afterwards and says to me, see that you wrecked the car.

That was my ride. The car owner said, look boy, you’re gonna run the car next week for me. You fixed the car that was open and twisted. You fixed the car all up. The next week I ran the car at Abbot, stop the car. In those days, the beat [00:09:00] was the number 27, the Venetia car. That was the car on the East Coast to beat.

Here I am, I got through the Tri Baytown here. All of a sudden you see this guy in front of me. Wow. I got close to him and I didn’t win the race. They finished second, so the car was happy. So that ended my ride, that car because, uh, the season was ended for URC. The last race for URC was in Shelby, not Carolina work.

And I was auditioning for him. He said, do you wanna ride my car there? You don’t? Yeah, I’ll ride a car. Anyway, I go down there. I was four. I won the feature, sat in back, I won the feature. That was my first feature with URC in 1962. And I had the ride for the following year. So when the following year started, now all, all went along.

I was a single guy, so I ate at his house every night. I managed kids. We had a good time. I became part of John LAN’s family. So the season started about a week before USAC was gonna run Langhorn. He said to me, Jim, I’m not gonna put you in the car. You’re too close to the family. Langhorn is a killer racetrack in them days.

And he said, A lot of you young guys go [00:10:00] wacky down there. I was mad as heck. I got so mad at

Lynn Paxton: him. He put Bobby Marvin in. He put Bobby in

Jimmy Maguire: the car, same age as I was. He was a crazy guy, but he was from Ohio. Well, he gets in the car and kills himself. He hit one of the chuck holes that I probably would’ve hit.

Goes in over in car catches, fires in them days where he had no fuel cells. The car catches fire. And of course you can’t see the fire burning. And you know what they had for a fire crew back in those days? A truck with a one, one bottle on it to put the fire on. Well, by the time he got to the car, 15 minutes later, it was all burnt up and alcohol.

He couldn’t see the fire. Of course, he burned the dead. The cow was surround. So I went over and apologized that, John, thanks for not giving me a ride up. This was a Sunday afternoon, right? I get home nine o’clock, Sunday night, I get a call from Venetia. Here I am 21-year-old kid. He says to me, Jim McGuire, right?

I said, yeah. So I says, this is sad, Venetia. I said, are you the guy that owns that 27, the one that Hank Rogers senior drives? He said, yeah. He said, well, we weren’t very satisfied with laying on today. He [00:11:00] should have went faster. So we want a young guy like your charger. You were the one that gave us the most hot time passing.

That’s right. You

Lynn Paxton: got Hank Senior fired out of that car so you could get in it, right?

Jimmy Maguire: Is that true? No. He said to me, Uhhuh, he said to me, Hank’s not Hank’s getting old now, he should have been. Go do it. He was 50 years old. He was an old man. So, uh,

Lynn Paxton: his son still holds it against you.

Jimmy Maguire: He says, we want you to drive the car for us. You’re a hot charger. Okay, so the first time I rode the car was, are we gonna yank asphalt? Which I’m good on asphalt. That’s what I was brought up in. So Bobby caught Wright al qui fighting with each other and they won first and second. I finished third, but but easy was happy.

Finished third on asphalt. Hank Rogers senior never did good on asphalt. None of the old time dirt drivers. Never did good on asphalt, but I did good. So I was happy. So he says, you’ve got the ride. So the next race we go to Georgetown. I win that race and I won. Did pretty good as the season. Went on an asphalt track again in [00:12:00] Quebec, Canada.

I was leading the race, running good, I’m laughing. Dave Humphreys, the rear axle breaks, he goes out in front of me, hit the tire, flip end over, and I land on the wall up, upside down and the wall, the back of the race goes shit. Right.

Lynn Paxton: Seems to be a pattern here, doesn’t it? One

Jimmy Maguire: behind the robot. Well that’s what happens there guys.

It, I only knew one way to drive before, got the floor. And car owners do a lot of money like and you like extra car

Lynn Paxton: owner. I only

Jimmy Maguire: knew one way to drive car owners, like guys that put the floor to the floor. They didn’t care if they have to spend the money as long as they want. That’s the way it was really.

So that’s why a young age. I got quick. So anyway, uh, I landed upside down the wall. She had the race car off the back. Said there like half conscious. I said to sab, how’s the race car? Don’t worry about the race car. You gotta get better. So we go to the hospital. I spend a week in the hospital. I get outta the hospital, I fly down on Friday to Georgetown, Delaware.

The car’s waiting for me. They get all ready for me. I win the race down there in the Georgetown. I was back. The newspaper says my body, what

Lynn Paxton: were you in the hospital for? Mental illness or what was it?

Jimmy Maguire: They thought I broke my neck. They [00:13:00] thought I broke ’cause my neck was hurting and they hooked me x-rays.

You’d

Lynn Paxton: have been in trouble if you broke your jaw because you wouldn’t have been able to talk

Jimmy Maguire: anyway. Hey, once talked a long time. He said a lot of nice things. All right, come on. He still talked longer than I did.

Lynn Paxton: They were better stories. He was an extra at attraction. That’s he put first. You know what’s

Jimmy Maguire: great about we?

Lynn Paxton: I was listening to a loser.

Jimmy Maguire: That’s why I was listening. So that was it. I was a winner. That was the difference. And the car owners liked winners. That’s why I got a best ride. The best guy Wednesday.

Lynn Paxton: You never got your car upside down, right.

Billy Wentz Sr: Never did. Right. It is everybody

Lynn Paxton: else’s car. Right.

Billy Wentz Sr: How far? Never did.

Yeah. But, uh, I’ve been held the car, couple them over,

Lynn Paxton: not as many as Wonder Boy. Over here. I went over, okay, thank you. I went over

Jimmy Maguire: 15 times in my career.

Lynn Paxton: His percentages. There’s 14 pictures over there, right in that Jimmy McGuire, case 14. Which one did we miss?

Jimmy Maguire: I didn’t put any of my Ricks in there. I’m glad you didn’t put any of my Ricks in there.

I brought that to Well, I got,

Lynn Paxton: I got one of Vene Carl [00:14:00] tour to hell. Who did that? Uh, yeah. Where’s that? The guy that just went, uh, that’s

Jimmy Maguire: Dick. Yeah. But he told me, he said to me, don’t worry about it. We’ll fix up. We’ll get to the next race. The next race at one part. We’ll see. When you drove for Ezio, I was a young kid.

I thought you had to win every race when you drove for him. ’cause the driver, Hank Senior did a job. He won 12 races one year for him. And here’s another thing I did. Whenever we were young drivers and you got a car, car owners, you got in, you know, some guy would say, well, can you change this? You can change that.

If I told Mari this a long time ago. I said when you we’re young guys, when you get in a race guy, never complain that something’s wrong. Wait till you do good, then complain. So I get into an easiest guy. I said, man, everything’s perfect. I love this guy. After I won my first race, I said, you know, this should be this way.

So then after you win and do good for him, then they changed for you. You know? And that’s the way it was in them days. Because the cos, well, one way Carl said one thing in their mind. Right? It my way. When I went to Kinesio, I said, everything’s perfect. Everything. Even when I finished third, everything was perfect.

Everything was perfect. [00:15:00] They were happy with me when I won Georgetown and I changed things, but I had to win first before they’d listen to me. If you didn’t win, they put another charge in the car. Right? And I’m telling the truth, right, bill? That’s it. You gotta put the guy. Hey. That’s the first

Lynn Paxton: thing they’ve agreed on for a long time.

Okay? They both remembered the situation. One a little different than the other, but that’s okay.

Jimmy Maguire: Well, anyway,

Lynn Paxton: but I forgot about it. Hank, how you stealing that ride from him? I came,

Jimmy Maguire: wait a minute. When I came back, after my being in the hospital, I was down a few points. Now I was a point leader before that happened.

They had a couple of races. SAB gets to me sign. He says, you know Jim, you don’t have to win every race. I said, I thought I had to win every race. That’s why I try and I crash if I can win. He says, Jim, ’cause I’d crash, I’d win a race. I crashed. I win. I crashed. He said, Jim, just finish second or third if you have to.

I said, oh, okay. So then I started, I started racing. If I finished second, and if it was hard to race, I’d finish third, fourth. I had 52 races in my career. Right. There’s probably about another 25 that this year won [00:16:00] when I never won ’em. Like on a weekend, on a rough dirt track. I’d be leading the race and all of a sudden a guy would come to challenge me.

I’d back off a little bit because my arm, my left arm was so numb. I didn’t have full control of the wheel. So I just let the guy go by me and I didn’t want to have to fight him. So some other times they finished second and third. I had the lead at that time, but I was good. If we had 10 laps to go in the race, I was strong for 10 laps.

If we had like a 25 straight race to run my amud weekend, I have to back off a little bit. That’s an honest truth. So, and we get to the end of the season, right? Where at Shelby, North Carolina. So he says to me, Jim, you got the point lead. All you’re gotta do is finish in the top 10 and you win the championship.

And he said that guy’s, even if he wins, you finish the top 10, you win the championship. So I got down to North Carolina, I worked my way through travel. I’m up in second spot and Earl Hor is in front of me, the champion that year before. So I said, set up a gun. I can beat Earl. I remember what Cas Sam said.

Finished in the top 10 and you got the championship. I backed off. Earl helped me. He was an older guy. He helped me a lot. Him and Bobby. Kwright [00:17:00] really helped me a lot in my younger career. He

Lynn Paxton: helped

Jimmy Maguire: me too. He seriously, he helped me. Bobby Kwright gave me the name Magoo. It was the first time I ran against him.

He couldn’t, I’d give you a different name than

Lynn Paxton: that, but I couldn’t repeat it up here.

Jimmy Maguire: And the way I got the name Magoo was my first year at Binghamton, New York. That was my first year running Spencer in 61. When you run asphalt to New England, when you get the move over, fight, you move down on dirt, you move up to leave the guy.

I didn’t know that. So when they gave me the move over fight for Bobby Cutright leading the race. I pulled down, which I cut him off. He didn’t crash, but Earl went around the outside, he won the race ball. We finished second and that didn’t mean too much then. But when the season ended in 1962, they tied from the championship.

If he had a pass mate, he would’ve won the championship by five points. So they were the first coach champs in the only coach Champs in URC. And that was because I cut Bobby, cut right off. So after the race, he comes walking over to me. Now he’s an old man. He’s 35 years old, right? I’m a young kid,

Lynn Paxton: 20 years old.

We should be 35 again. [00:18:00]

Jimmy Maguire: He says, he sees me coming down and he says, what’s your name, kid? I said McGuire. Jim McGuire, he is my first sprint. He says to me, McGuire, we’re gonna call you Magoo. You don’t know where the hell you are going. So ironically, that name is stuck with me all the time. And of course it helped me be Bump.

I bumped in a few guys along my way. So every time they say, McGuire named you Magoo. So that, that name stuck with me.

Lynn Paxton: Ey, you sure you didn’t give that name? Magoo?

Billy Wentz Sr: I’ll tell you one thing, ever since that happened, I never walked away from my ride

Lynn Paxton: at a boy.

Billy Wentz Sr: I stayed right there all the time.

Jimmy Maguire: Vince soon was a great driver.

Don’t, don’t get me wrong, he was a great one. So wait a minute, what? I kissed his daughter in Victory Lane. When I beat Foot, I did. I kissed Bill’s daughter in Victory Lane. When I beat Foy. That was the girl on the trophy. Okay, go ahead. Wait a minute. I didn’t do that. Hey, no.

Lynn Paxton: Who got paid that night?

Jimmy Maguire: Foy.

Yeah. Wanted the trophy. And I said, no, that’s my trophy. Yeah,

Lynn Paxton: the trophy. And I pulled it away from the hand on it top, the big [00:19:00] trophy, except for one piece. Foy has that

Jimmy Maguire: he took. I said, I’m so serious. I said to Foy, you got the money, I’m gonna keep the trophy.

Lynn Paxton: Yep.

Jimmy Maguire: I worked out in Indy for five years after that, and every year I went on to say, where’s my trophy?

Where’s my trophy?

Ron Lauer: Ray. Ray McCabe was gonna bring this up because as I’m sitting here next to you, tell him about the time you went to Pocono on the three quarter mile and didn’t have any of their stuff with you, and you borrowed everything and what happened after you? Oh yeah, that was, well,

Jimmy Maguire: that was Boston.

I went up there with Hank and I, him a ride. You’re a good friend, Dan. We’re best friends. We’re still out, I think. Uh, although, you know what? He got me fired from my car. That’s why he won the championship. I wanted him here to tell him that he was afraid I was gonna beat Hank. And his, his wife had owned the car.

That’s the way it worked. And he didn’t want his wife winning the championship.

Lynn Paxton: Kalen told me I was a bunch of bullshit. Hank probably

Jimmy Maguire: did too. Yeah.

Ron Lauer: Anyway. Tell when you went to Pocono.

Jimmy Maguire: So I went to the Poconos. I had no ride. [00:20:00] So all of sudden, and a three

Ron Lauer: quarter mile track inside Pocot.

Jimmy Maguire: And what happened is, uh.

Blackie came down. He was supposed to be a driver, but the forecast from New England was, it was gonna rain in Poconos. So the driver never came to the racetrack. So they said, Hey, Blackie’s got the car. And I knew Blackie very personally from back home in Boston. So he said to me, uh, do you wanna run the car?

I said, okay. I don’t have any equipment. So I borrowed a uniform from somebody. I borrowed a helmet from oil and I borrowed everything from extra drivers. I get in the car and I go out in the heat to qualify and man, Blackie had an illegal engine. They let him run. It was a sco, really built big illegal engine that’s a fresh, it was an oversized Nova sized engine, but they let him go because the guy guys had in it weren’t drivers.

So they never competed hard against anybody. So I stepped in the gas filet. I passed three off. He, I, whoa. Anyway, I got up the second or third spot. And I said, wow, this car’s flying, and all of a sudden I passed the two Scon brothers on the outside and I says, this thing’s flying. Then all of a [00:21:00] sudden I go in the corner, I lose it.

I hit the wall, I flip in over and I lost mother one. Yeah. That was my time. I hit the wall. I over.

Ron Lauer: Yeah, but how about when you were in practice and you didn’t have your racing arm with you and your other one kind of left the steering wheel. Do you remember that?

Jimmy Maguire: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I didn’t have my steering arm with my, had my regular artificial arm and Yeah, that’s right too.

That’s probably why I spun out. You’re right, right. By the way,

Lynn Paxton: we have his bag here. His one arm is hanging right there on the case, and the other one’s in the bag.

Jimmy Maguire: Well, the other one was a high, when you run heavy, that one I could run asphalt with. The other one, I had to run dirt because dirt was rough.

And when I ran this one on dirt, it broke in the elbow all the time. It was a rough dirt track. It was the one I run an asphalt. The other one, I took the screw off and screwed it in and it had quarter orange titanium rods on either side of it had all laminated so it wouldn’t break. And that’s the way I drove that one.

I drove on dirt and this one, I drove an asphalt. That’s why I had a big bag. I had a lot of things in my bag. [00:22:00]

Ron Lauer: Anyway, he came in after that warmup. He may not remember this, but somewhere along the line, his regular hook bounced off the wheel and his right arm was banging on the right rear tire. And he came in and there was rubber all over his hook.

And the guys on the track that didn’t know this was Jimmy McGuire, his arms bouncing on the back and they thought I lost every hand. And then you flip the guy’s car. You know, I was gonna bid on that neck brace they had. But it said on their living legend that I didn’t know you were still alive.

Jimmy Maguire: Well, you know, I thought it was, wait a minute, February 5th this year down in Daytona, I never had NASCAR in my life, but they made me a living legend along with Larry McReynolds, uh, Kyle Pit.

Oh, that’s right.

Lynn Paxton: That’s what this show’s all about, him being a living legend. I forgot about that.

Jimmy Maguire: And it says, and I got this February 5th. 2023. Honest to God, I was invited to come down. So Mario and Dirty sponsored three [00:23:00] tables because you know, I make friends easy. I cost eight. We’re gonna have

Lynn Paxton: Mario’s introduction for McGuire,

Jimmy Maguire: so, so $800 a table had cost these sponsors.

I had a good time. All my friend showed up. My daughter’s come down from Boston. One come, my daughters are there, and my grandsons were there. So a matter of fact, Mario gave me a tribute, which is on the wall. My grandson, 19 years old, gave me, he presented me the Hall of Fame down there and they said, and it’s all written on the wall then

Lynn Paxton: It’s not the bathroom wall, it’s the wall over there, Mario Speech

Jimmy Maguire: is on top and the grandsons on the bottom.

It’s got a picture of Mario and I together in 63 the year he finished Second Points with the A RDC and I won the championship in URC. So that’s all on the wall if you want to look at it. But anyway. I got pictures taken with Kyle Petty and all the other guys. But Larry Res was first getting, and he had to leave right away.

He had to be on TV the next day, so he left right away. So I never got a picture, but this year I’m planning to go up and I hope he’s there. I want, I get a picture taken with him. But that was quite, so I [00:24:00] got in there with those guys and those guys were real nascat guys. And I was just an outsider. You know what they call me?

They call me a Saturday night hero. And I guess that pissed me.

Lynn Paxton: They call

Jimmy Maguire: the award was a Saturday night hero.

Lynn Paxton: Saturday night special was always a gun to me. No

Jimmy Maguire: Saturday night, right? Didn’t I win the at A RDC at at Grandview because I was good with the fans. Right? Now you, Ernie Saxon had a favorite driver of roll water something every year, and I won six years in a row.

They finally ended it because nobody else could win it. And I was a ham. I was a ham. I’d get down an intermission, sit in the stands with all the fans, sign autographs.

Lynn Paxton: You ran second three times by the way.

Jimmy Maguire: So I’d get down to the fans, I talk with him, invite him up the trailer afterwards, and I was the only one that allowed to have the dog in the pistol thing.

He was on the trailer at Benjamin. And the kids would come around, I’d sign autographs with the kids that that bench. So I was kind of a, a happy fan, you know, with the fans. That’s why they voted for me. I guess I had a rule at Grand Grandview, whenever I wanna race, the kids had to all come in with me.

They weren’t allowed to give me the [00:25:00] presentation, take pictures, unless the kids were with me. So I have several pictures of me with all the kids when I went, they’d be in there and I hold a checkered flag and the kids would be in Victory Lane with me. That’s why I guess I got the most popular drive right.

I get the most That’s true. Yes.

Ron Lauer: You were very good with the fence.

Jimmy Maguire: And the promoters like me and the, the photographers like me. Why? Because every time the picture was taken with a hundred kids, how about the beauty queen down in

Lynn Paxton: Australia? Did she like it? Wait, wait a minute. We’re not getting in

Jimmy Maguire: Australia anymore.

That’s another story. So anyway, when I would, when I would, when I would get in the fans, hey five spin out, there’d be a hundred, there’d be a hundred kids in that picture, right? The next week the photographer there would sell the pictures. He made a ton of dope with me and Victory Lane. ’cause all the fans wanted that kid in that picture.

Take a breath, take a breath. I’ll keep, if

Lynn Paxton: you’re right, I don’t want to be, I’ll tell you that

Ron Lauer: now. That was pretty much all truth.

Jimmy Maguire: Pretty

Lynn Paxton: much, pretty much.

Jimmy Maguire: I exaggerate on a few things, like a talks about getting one more fish than you should want, [00:26:00] but I have fun.

Billy Wentz Sr: Hey Jim. I have a doctor’s appointment tomorrow over again.

Ron Lauer: Not in the morning, I hope.

Jimmy Maguire: I’m not taking off till four o’clock tomorrow afternoon.

Ron Lauer: What type

Jimmy Maguire: of

Ron Lauer: car

Jimmy Maguire: did

Ron Lauer: you lose your

Jimmy Maguire: arm in? It was, it was a sprint car, and Bobby Marshman drove in. Usac. Now I was in USAC now, so he had a stock car race that day. So he called me up and because he was a former URC pupil, he said, do you want to drive it?

I didn’t have ride because my car owner, which I did good in, I, I ran a car that was owned by AJ Watson and I took a second and third to flight in my debut, and then I, so I wanted to go racing, so, uh, yeah, I said, I wanna go. It was, I was already living on Indianapolis. He said, you got my car if you want it.

So I got in it. And, uh, now normally if the car was owned eight cylinders, I would’ve qualified further. But the les that only had seven cylinders in it, I didn’t care. I went. So I qualified. Good. I qualified fourth fastest Les, when you have only seven cylinders, you don’t do the pickup. So I had to [00:27:00] go three.

Hes, before I qualified, I qualified ninth. Well with cylinders, but I worked my way up to fifth and that’s when the, he spun. Once you ran two laps over the end, the thing was built up, you know, the speed was built up and I caught guys, as long as the race went on, I pass guys and of course the guy spun out in front of me.

Chuck Booth spun in front of me and instead of staying there, he backed up the racetrack and I got pictures of it. He’s backing up and my left front wheel hits his left rear wheel and I, he did a barrel side rolls. And when you do it, no rinse, they, they’re wild looking into over rinse, but those are the best ones to take because only the front and the back of hitting, you’re in the race guy, you’re not hitting it.

When you are a side roll, you head hits the ground, you knocked out immediately and that’s when most drivers, you look back at K with side rolls because back in those days, because you didn’t do a side rail, you had hits, head hits the ground, you’re out like a light. So that’s what happened to me. But Bobby Martin in the car drove that and that’s, I lost Miami.

And another thing would probably be Marshman car. Most robots are three or four inches behind. Behind your head. Bobby Marshman car [00:28:00] was right eve with your head. So of course when I started flipping with my arms when the car landed, the robot saved my life. But I took my arm off because the arm was between the roll bar on the ground and a message that was new Bernan, right?

And I didn’t wake up till two days later. So I didn’t feel anything. I didn’t know what the hell happened. All I know is I woke up, I could still see me waking up in the hospital. My dad was there, my girlfriend was there, which eventually became my wife, Henry Banks was there, all the big shots for insurance.

I was gonna act. I woke up and I said, whoa. I go, well on. I got. And I simply said, I got a new challenge in life. They all looked at each other and said, well this guy’s wacky. Said they all left. I had my one out. First thing I asked for was a pencil. ’cause I had to learn how to write with the left hand. And the whole six months I was in the hospital, I wrote, I learned how to write.

And you know what? If you ever talk to anybody that has lost a limb, when you learn how to write even with your other hand, by writing ’em the same thing as my right hand, you look at the signature, the only thing is it goes to the left. If I turn the paper sideways and I write, you can’t tell a my right hand or my left hand because you [00:29:00] learn.

Your brain only knows one way to write. You write slow. But it’s, I had to go back to drafting. My printing is the same as it was my right. You do it slower. Your brain only is one way. The right. So it goes back how I learn to write. ’cause I still have the feeling right now. I’m giving the finger to Paxton.

Lynn Paxton: If

Jimmy Maguire: I had this shirt off, you talk to your nerves are still, you have phip pain right now. If you looked at my arm off, you see a little nerve tch in there. That’s my little finger.

Lynn Paxton: Take a picture of that.

Ron Lauer: I’m glad you straightened that out.

Lynn Paxton: I’ve been told I’m number one. Before

Jimmy Maguire: when I laid in the hospital it hurt. I did not tell him, okay, I’m laying there and they said to me. Chuck Hal also. That was the number one driver for the Dean of Van Lion team. I was gonna take a test in the second car just to see if I could drive an Indy [00:30:00] car, but it never happened.

Sunday, I lost my arm. The next day I was supposed to sign my driver assist at Indy. So Wednesday I’m in the hospital, Jim Mcg again and Clint Brown and come in to see me. First they offered the ride to Roger Chop Penske. He said, no, I ain’t gonna drive any car. Me, I don’t want be killed. Roger Chop. Penske a nice guy, great for racing, but he drove sporty cars.

The ones that beat behind when they want to pass. That’s what he drove. I’m laying in the hospital of bed and they said, who are we gonna get for a driver? I said, well, did you ever hear of Andrei? He’s only, yeah, he’s a good midget driver. We read. But he’s the only 120 pounds and he only five foot four. I pointed to my foot in bed and I said, he’s got it there.

And I took my hand, I went, he’s got it here. Give him a shot at it. Jim, you don’t have any. And see Jim again. And I go to go up to Boston in the same racetracks. He was a mechanic and I was a driver. That’s how I knew him real good. He watched me as I was going through my career and he said, well, in the wintertime he said, we’ll give you a test.

And when I did good news act, he said, we’ll give you a test at, didn’t he? So it was all set up. I said to him, give Andre a shot. And I said, you don’t [00:31:00] have a driver. If you don’t like it, get rid of him. You don’t have a drive. Give him a shot and see what happens. Well, he gave him a shot and as the story goes, all the rest is history.

And he goes, well, let’s driving race here. And and another thing, he took a lot of flips. Did a lot of crashes, but that’s one of the reasons he never got hurt, except why he was so small. He was way inside the race car. So that’s it. That’s the story, my Andre. Now we get there.

Alison Kreitzer: So we do have this introduction to show you for Mario Andretti that he did for Mr.

McGuire, and we’ll play that here.

Jimmy Maguire: The awards, when I had the, uh, when I, when I got last February, I got the award for, uh, setting a hero for legends. So, uh, Mario gave a speech there for me and somebody videotaped it and the certificate speech, and I cried after I heard it. I called him up and I said, I wanna go back driving a restart again.

So I listened to the speech. It’s only a minute, nine seconds long.

Mario Andretti: And here we go. Hello everyone. I’m pleased you’re honoring Jim McGuire this evening. Our friendship goes back to [00:32:00] the early sixties when we were both carving our own way through our careers. He was really on his way to the top, no question about it.

What’s most impressive to me is after this accident, Jim showed you can’t keep a good man down. He reinvented himself by learning to write with his left hand and continuing work as a draft man, and designing and creating a system. There were allowed his prosthetic arm to connect with the steering wheel of a race car.

He was back on track racing again, but not just racing, winning, winning against the very best. So Jim, I congratulate you on this very special recognition and thank you for being such an inspiration to all of us.[00:33:00]

Jimmy Maguire: Call him up the next day and I said, buy me a race car. I’m spied. I want to go back. He said, when I go to a place and somebody talks about me, I feel like going back racing too. But we said we’re too old. I said, I agree with you. So glad you enjoy it. God, it was only, it was only a minute long, so that was it.

Good. So.

Ron Lauer: He knew your crash record. He wasn’t buying a car for you.

Jimmy Maguire: I get you. Smart ass boy. We got a lot of stories from Mario. Come here. We have a lot of stories. We may have to say a little, because we have a lot of stories. Mario, I Hey.

Lynn Paxton: You get some booze in him. You hear a lot of merrier stories.

Something you don’t wanna hear. I, I’ve heard

Ron Lauer: the, the Hershey and the Yeah, yeah. There you go. Yeah. You wanna talk about Hershey?

Jimmy Maguire: I didn’t

Lynn Paxton: think

Jimmy Maguire: so did you?

Ron Lauer: I heard you had a woman visit you in the camper.

Jimmy Maguire: I don’t drink anymore. And that’s one, that’s one of the reasons, yeah. The camp. Oh yeah. Heard that really?

Oh, you wanna hear that? Can I tell a story now? We gotta tell story. [00:34:00] No, no,

Lynn Paxton: it’s just a family show. Stay away from that story,

Jimmy Maguire: then you find out what we’re really doing to her show. Well, is anybody enjoying this talking here at all? What’s going on again, again, you gotta make the fans happy.

Ron Lauer: That’s what it’s

Jimmy Maguire: all

Ron Lauer: about.

I’d like to, but uh, I don’t have a chance. When you came back to the midgets, who did you drive for first? Not the TQ with, uh, Bob, but it was, uh, four Midgets, uh,

Jimmy Maguire: first race back. I was driving for Eddie Tow, really any out for a year. I drove for him. First time I drove for him was over to New Jersey and asphalt.

I finished nine. He was very happy with, because he just bought the car. He got the car and Ed clinic is taking care of the car, and I guess he recommended the driver. So I got in the car. Then as the time went on, I got better in the car and we had a Bobby Marshall Memorial at, uh, Hatfield, Pennsylvania.

That was the track that he, he promoted. A RDC and that was my kind track as I went there. In [00:35:00] sprint cars, I go in the counter, I take the lead in the first lap, 49 laps. I led that race, touch shape was right behind me, led the race. Just kept my foot to the floor. See a Hatfield if you’re in it good, you just kept your foot to the floor.

You were in right in the rim high bank. You didn’t have to take your foot outta the throttle. The last lap. I said, geez, I’m gonna win. I see the white. I’m gonna win this race. So I come off the bank, right? I come off the bank, come down, and Dutch Shaer goes right around the outside of me and wins the race.

I make more money than he did because I let every lap and then get front money. The fans pulled the hell outta him. He beat me, but he finished second and I told him Victory Land. I said to George, er, well, I wanted to win you your son’s memorial, because footy did for me after I lost my arm. ’cause I lost the arm in his sprint car that he drove.

He had a ride with a stock high that day. So he asked if I’d wanna run. So I ran it. But he F so he helped me out along the way with my rehabilitation. Touch Safer won the race. I made more money than, than I can say now. It took me seven times to run in the Bobby Marsh Memorial race. I finished second, third, fourth.

Every time I got in a car, I was leaving it. [00:36:00] I dropped back when I finally won it, when I bought a car, George just bought a race car finally. It had nothing to do for a year. He bought a race car, miss you. He was the sprint car owner, so he bought a car for him and we go up there with the Vene and Frank Jennings.

They brought the car up with him. We go up to Bloomberg, Pennsylvania. I’m sorry, bus Milwaukee was the car. See Jake Vago. Let me take the midget out. I was gonna run it during the month of May if I had passed my driver’s test. ’cause that in those days, every night across the street from the Speedway, they had a quarter mile track and they were in the track across the street from the speed all the drivers in practice, they go in the midget the night and eventually that went to Mario for the month of May.

But anyway, I was gonna drive it. Jake Vago gave me the car and I took it out there. So then when I wanted to run midget there, in fact get back in midgets, it was after the TQ season. I had done good. I won the hundred lap and I won the championship for Paulson. So I called him up and I said, Hey, can you bring the car up to, uh, Bloomsburg?

I’d like to run for you again. Yeah, okay. I’ll sit bus walkie with him. So bus walkie rides to the car. He was the type, [00:37:00] if anybody knows the name, bus walkie, obviously you know him. He was a mechanic, a big Indianapolis mechanic and a driver. And so he took the car up there. Anyway, I got in the car. I led the race for 24 laps, again, long, around 24 laps.

The same thing. I’m running good. It’s like I back off in the third and fourth turn ’cause I won, I won this race. Who goes around the outside of me? Bill Brown and, and Eddie Dar Scott wins the race. The fans booed the hell out of him, but again, he made only 600 bucks. Win the race. I made 850 because I got a lot money.

That’s what Gil Brown, I finally won that race with George Ey gave me a ride. I led the race, the whole race, and I won the race. And I think I got a picture there someplace with Frank Jennings, his son and, uh, me winning the race of Bloomsburg. I finally won the volume and I, and I had tears when I was up there on the stage with Mr.

Marshall. I was crying because I said it took me seven years to win this Bobby Marshall Memorial. So, and he was, he had tears in his eyes too because, you know, it was his son. And I always wanted to do that and [00:38:00] I always win that. Bobby Marshall Memorial took me seven races to win it, but I finally wanted, and, and like Far Gump says to the movie, and that’s all I got to say about the matter.

Ron Lauer: That’s funny. ’cause my first midget ride was with Ed Toth at Mahoning Valley in 1971. You were almost retired by then.

Jimmy Maguire: Yeah, I Did he tell you I won the first race with him?

Lynn Paxton: Yeah.

Jimmy Maguire: And I won the first race. I was first race on him. Then that year, after that year, then he went to, with Williams going, he bought a sprint car, I think.

Yeah.

Ron Lauer: I, I had something to do with that.

Jimmy Maguire: Oh, you did? Okay. You did you drive the sprint? Yeah, I

Ron Lauer: destroyed his midget, so I went sprint car. Oh, that’s, that’s he went,

Lynn Paxton: he went with Oz. Yes.

Ron Lauer: Ozzie built the cars

Jimmy Maguire: and drove. He was a good car. I he

Ron Lauer: a good guy. Yeah.

Jimmy Maguire: Did he get steering that sprint car? I don’t know if he had, I was gonna call him and see.

He had steering, but I was happy running mid. No, I was, he might have later on, but not at first. He did. Yeah. Right. Because I, if I had punched a guy, I would’ve talked to him and let me drive it. I had a good way with words with car owners. That was a good race. Car isn’t midget. Oh yeah. [00:39:00] Back in those days, they were all rigu sprint cars with Offie and Hickey took em care of most of the cars, you know, Offie, when I, when I ran for all the time, I had afi, just like Ferguson ran the five years I ran for Ferguson.

Fergu had office. Yeah. And you ran him with afi, but he ran No, I didn’t run an off. You didn’t have an off? What did you have? I ran a Sesco. Oh, you had a Sesco? Okay. Yeah, that was later on. Oh, then I was done. I Was that when you were in Caleb’s car? Yeah. Okay. That’s right. You were gonna win the championship.

Yeah. Right. Okay.

Lynn Paxton: But you didn’t win Williams Grove that day. I guarantee that.

Billy Wentz Sr: I wanna ask you a question. You have a guy by the name of Shark that comes here and his grandfather had a race car. Yes, yes. That I ball up at Lincoln. Did anybody? Oh, I didn’t know you tore sharks car up down there. Yeah, that’s a whole story.

Yeah. Well, you had come after me, then you’ll be, you’ll be at a retake. It didn’t have a safety there. It came out. I went up in the air. There’s no picture. Oh, you crashed too. Oh my God. Crash. I broke my back that day. [00:40:00] Broke your back from out on a race car like Superman. And I landed in the infield and it had it raining and it was like mud.

So when I landed, it was a soft landing, but my ass was sore and I had to drive home from Lincoln with a broken back and went to the hospital the next day and then got the operation. But sure when they got there, they didn’t have a driver. And they said, am I interested? I said, yeah. Hell yeah. And it was a rocket.

Had a good motor. I don’t know what that frame was made out of, but they said the back and the front fold together. If I’d have stayed that car, I’d have been drunk. So I came out of the car like, you think you’re better than junk right now? Well, I made it this far. All right. I not, and I’m not in the junk yard yet.

Thank you.

Ron Lauer: You all guys think you’re the only ones that crashed, right?

Lynn Paxton: Yeah. Well, he wanted finally to admit to come up and say he crashed. That was great. Well, I

Jimmy Maguire: had 15 [00:41:00] crashes in my career. Flips rather. I had a lot of crashes, but I had 15 flips. I probably had more than 15 crashes and one championship. I, but I always won.

I always won. I won more races. How many guys here won 52 races? Accident won 250. I’m sorry. And how many have done it with? 31 with one arm. And 22 with two ounce.

Lynn Paxton: I I wait to the fans for the other one.

Ron Lauer: I got the two covered.

Jimmy Maguire: I got a picture of me in Victory Lane. Now they beat foot before they took it

Lynn Paxton: away from me and I got the four foot trophy.

Hey Joe. Hold. Hold it up there. Explain it. Hold the mic at the same time we wanna watch.

Jimmy Maguire: Okay. That night I won. I got Bill’s daughter in one here, her mother’s right behind us, so it was all legal to see in the picture. And I’m holding her and giving her a big kiss for about a minute, and then everybody’s laughing like hell behind me, you can see in the picture.

And I got my, that time I had two arms. I’m holding a four foot trophy. Whenever my daughter shows that picture [00:42:00] to French, she says, oh, that’s my mother. That’s his wife. The daughter shows that. She says

Lynn Paxton: he kids’ wife. How about the queen down in, uh, Australia?

Jimmy Maguire: What about her? You weren’t there. You don’t know what went on.

Lynn Paxton: I read the paper.

Jimmy Maguire: I know. Well, what happened there? I, I went to Australia in 69. That was a nice deal. I had six races over there. Has anybody here ever been to Australia? Okay. It is about the same size as the United States. New York is is Sydney, Texas is Adelaide and Perth is California and I raced in all three places.

When you run to Australia a Holden, I won a Holden. A Holden is a Chevy two over there. They call ’em Holden’s. It was Chevy when I won races. Third and a win a hundred lap in Adelaide. I had an offie that was the caliber of the road, so I won with the roads a quarter mile track, and the guy was behind me the whole time.

They had champion. But he couldn’t get by me ’cause I ran the car, I put the car sideways, I’d watch him, it was a small truck, and I’d watch him [00:43:00] shadows behind me. Wherever he’d go high with the shadow. I’d get in front of him when there was no shadow. I knew he was underneath me, so I’d cut him off and go high back and forth, back and forth.

That’s the way the whole race was won. And I got a picture going on the car to finish line. He’s right on my tail. Uh, did you ever drive a VW Power Plant car? Oh yeah. What are you talking about? With Eddie Dar, it was the first time I drove one and I got him. We’d run the Silver Dome and do it when I went on.

He, he wanted to go. So he hated my guts but he wanted to go because bench was gone. And I got the invite to go out there. ’cause Mario said he, the way we got to go out there, Mario said he was gonna be cheap and get another car. Of course he never showed up. But I got the ride out there and that was the first time a Volkswagen said, wow, it’s a good car.

And we didn’t do anything there. We made the race for, didn’t do anything. But then the next time I drove the car was when Hank Rogers was running a car. He won the championship but he had to do a wedding. So he called me up and he said, I talked to, I drove for Mike Chin once with an off hit and I won the race at IC Junction.

That was one of the very few times I’m the only driver ever to win the midget race at IC Junction on Friday. [00:44:00] And the next day I went, I won the sprint race. It was the easiest car. So I did drive for Mike. She, so he said, okay, let Jim drive it. I get in the car at Middletown, the York and Wow. I won the heat running good.

It rained out. The feature rained out. I never ran the car. And that was the only time I ever ran a Volkswagen that I, in the feature truck. I probably didn’t wanted it. It was fast, fast, race, car and, but that was the only time we had a Volkswagen. They were good. Yeah, I ran SESCO’s, but then when I got to, uh, Sydney, the guy who owned the car was an engineer, smart guy.

He had a fiat in there. And the fiat was a tough runner. And, and it’s still a tough runner in Formula One car, but he had a 600 of fiat in that. And of course he couldn’t run hard with, he just about made the race. When I got in it, first of all, all the guys, the beginning guys all raised 60 pounds inside weight.

When I got in the car to get in it for warmups, I couldn’t even lift the rear left rear tire. I took three turns outta the left. Dang. I put three turns the right way, and I got weight on the outside. Kyle was straight as an arrow. I went everything I wanted, the heat, the semi, the match [00:45:00] race, and I won the feature.

So when I went home, I said, that’s the way you gotta run the car. But he said, but the car was so straight under dirt, don’t you go sideways? And he said, no, that’s why I won everybody else’s sideways and I’m straight. So that’s, that’s what happened over there. They, they, they brought up heavyweight in the inside and all the race cars were sideways.

Everybody was side. And as long as the top guys run sideways, all the other guys do the same thing. Stare all running sideways. When you are run sideways, sure you look, you can win as long as everybody else is sideways. Well, when I went over, I kept my race car straight and every time I’m at the corner that’s how I’d pass.

I’d pass him on the inside. Coming off that picture over there, if you look at it, me and usac Mario was sideways. And I’m straight and narrow. And you win races when you’re straight. That’s how you get the whole bike. But the dangerous thing about that is when you hit a chuck hole, tips over much easier.

You just gotta make sure that the, the rear is over the hole and the front coast of the, and so I was lucky like that outside race is the place to go. When I ran asphalt, like down the wall stadium and I always had 30 pounds outside weight with an offie and I won down [00:46:00] there. And uh, always on asphalt, I ran outside weight, put a little more on asphalt.

But when I ran the dirt tracks, I ran 15 to 20 pounds outside weight. Remember the midges little smaller when you run a sprint car, I imagine like those guys, when you see kings with them guys, they had to run at least. 60, 70 pounds the outside weight. ’cause that’s why their right front tire lifted up, you know, and you ever see the sprint go on the probably 60, 80 pounds outside weight.

That’s how they keep their foot to the floor. When you give your foot to the floor, you take your foot out, the front end wants to push right away was the right front, so light. But all those will, and even now, Williams Grove, you see they keep the foot right to the floor. They took their foot outta the floor, the right front, and they’d go right to the wall.

But you gotta keep your foot to the floor. It makes that right front real light and, uh, you know, blah, blah, blah. I won four outta six races over there. I finished third and, uh, one of the, my first time over there, and then I crashed in the other one. What else? So anyway, uh,

Lynn Paxton: imagine something like that doesn’t matter.

Oh no. Wait a minute. I didn’t crash. They have a rule when I you driving on the wrong [00:47:00] side of the track. At Perth. At Perth,

Jimmy Maguire: what they do at Perth, they have a guy at each end of the corner and they have a white curb going on a six foot square curb. If you hit that curb, you disqualified. They, they say wife, they see a tire, so they watch it.

So I was on my second race, I was racing. I hit the curb. I didn’t know that was the rule. And I had black tie mark on. They dis, even though I won the race, they disqualified me ’cause I hit that tire. So I made sure the next time I didn’t do that, I stayed out and I did not, they had a white curb going around the racetrack and I said, boy, that nobody ever told me if you hit it, you’re disqualified.

So I got disqualified. Otherwise I would’ve won three races over there. But I won two races there and I came back to Adelaide. I took, I won a hundred lap there, then I went to Sydney and one there and, uh, how about the queen? Oh, now the queen. Okay, this is the queen that was in Adelaide. My wife was over.

We all go to the beach with the, the car owner, which was a rich guy who one the newspaper owned. Odd guy. He owned everything and he brought me over from the, he owned the racetrack. We ran Adelaide, owned that racetrack. [00:48:00] Finished third, my first time there. Then about six ladies, I’m back there on lap. Uh, we go to the beach and we’re at the beach.

During the week, nanny was taking care of the kids, boyfriend was there and everything else. We were all at the beach having a good time. She says to me, oh, Mr. Benign asked me to be the queen for Saturday night’s race. You know, this is like Wednesday or Thursday. I said, well, who’s gonna finish second? She says, what do you mean?

I said, well, if you’re gonna be the Queen, I’m gonna win the race. She says, why? She says, because in America we kiss girls when we win the race. So my boyfriend’s laughing, my wife’s laughing, and my wife would say, yeah, that’s right. When you win a race you kiss the queen. So, you know, that was just a joke.

Saturday night comes, I win the race. So anyway, I win the race. So as we’re going to victory circle over there, they don’t give trophies, they give coffee. Tea sets a big tray with four cups on it and a tea. Dang. So anyway, in the newspaper, as the article outcome comes out the next week. We could do the kissing.

I kiss her and all that stuff, but then I picked her up. Right now she only weighed about a hundred pounds by one arm. They picked her up. She was in a bikini. I walk all the way across the racetrack. They report [00:49:00] this in the racer paper. They say, I guess in America they take the trophy girl home with him, because Jim, Jim McGuire was seen leaving the racetrack, and I was born on the stands.

I sat her down beside her boyfriend and my wife was there too. And the whole crew, everybody’s laughing, all the fans are laughing. So that’s what happened. The newspaper didn’t know that. I carried it in the stand. They thought I took her home. They said, I guess, I guess in America they take the trophy home.

So that’s what’s in the race paper. So that was the joke.

Ron Lauer: How many times did you go back to Australia? To Australia? I don’t. They went again. I never went again. Never went again. They never invited. Well,

Jimmy Maguire: I wouldn’t go anyway because they wouldn’t let him back in. No, I never, I never went back again. I think what it was, I wanted more money.

That’s what it was. I wanted more money. See what they did, they, it was a good deal going over there. They paid your expenses, playing gift you going over, they gave you a certain amount of money no matter whether you win or loss. They gave you the same amount of money. In other words, I forget what it was, it was good money.

I mean, I made money outta it. I come home with a few thousand in my pocket. It was more money, but you get it guaranteed no matter whether you [00:50:00] crash the win or whatever. My name was the name. So the next year I went back, I knew it. I asked for a little bit more money and I wanted a percentage of the purse.

They said, no, I can’t do this because I had a good ride back in the United States. And uh, who was I driving by then at that time? So where here? Ferguson? I think it was Ferguson. Ferguson probably. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a better deal there with Ferguson. So you

Ron Lauer: had a deal with Ferguson? Oh yeah. I got 50%. Well, yeah, there was nobody else in the car when you got there.

’cause I tried that. So wait a minute. I only got

Lynn Paxton: 40% when I drove,

Jimmy Maguire: but when I went in, I, he gave me 50%, 50% and plus. He had a nice wife too.

Ron Lauer: I drove him for

Jimmy Maguire: five years.

Ron Lauer: He’s got a better midget record than you. He drove a midget once and won. That’s right.

Lynn Paxton: No, I drove twice. Twice.

Ron Lauer: Oh, okay.

Lynn Paxton: I ran sales because we probably could have won up there, but we kept popping. Right. Retire off.

Jimmy Maguire: Not a bad record. Did I run against you when you won that night?

Yeah. Oh, I did. Oh, I was in the other camp. You were in the camp car. I, I finished second. You’re right. No, you finished

Lynn Paxton: third.

Jimmy Maguire: Okay. Sorry. [00:51:00] To a guy like you, you had two, two guys in front of me drove with two arms. I had a handicap. I was the first handicapped. You had a

Lynn Paxton: handicap with two arms. I want to tell you

Jimmy Maguire: I was handicapped, so I figured I won the race with a handicap.

I was the best handicapped driver there. Yep. Now, does anybody wanna ask me a question? I’ve given you a lot of,

Audience Q&A: I got a question for you to ask Lynn. You have, you had 50 wins? 52. I want you to ask Lynn the truth. Stand low. And Smokey SBA told me that half a Lynn’s 250 winds were in a snowmobile come

Jimmy Maguire: race. Hey, wait a minute, I’m a race. Well, when is the wind? I ask the wind if he ran. That’s the

Lynn Paxton: first time he’s ever defended me in his life. Look,

Jimmy Maguire: house [00:52:00] for two days. Speak to me. His wife’s nice at night. Everybody’s nice. His kids at nice. I’m not gonna say him bad about him. What’s his name? Joe. Okay, Joe.

Lynn Paxton: On pitching, you know

Ron Lauer: where it’s going,

Lynn Paxton: but

Ron Lauer: on pitching.

I mean, like I said, I didn’t know you were still alive, so

you gotta be alive to be a living legend. Well, that’s why I’m a living legend. I’m

Jimmy Maguire: alive. That’s what you read. The what over there says, I’m a living. I didn’t make it up. All of a sudden, NASCO calls me up and says, I said, what? I never in Nasco in my life. He says, you’re a living legend. So you’re going in, you, you’ve been all over the country, know we had

Lynn Paxton: two choices.

Living or

Ron Lauer: dead. Who’s your PR person?

Jimmy Maguire: Nobody. I don’t know who. I know who it was. I dunno how they

Ron Lauer: got your name. Well,

Jimmy Maguire: I knew a few guys in nascar. They knew of me, I guess. I guess. I don’t know. They had some, but all I know is I was so surprised. I called Maya and I said, you have anything to do with, no, I didn’t have anything to do with this.

And he said, well, I said, and then I get the book and in the [00:53:00] book there. Now listen to, in the book, Ernie Saxon about 10 years ago, was a living legend. He’s in as a writer and Mario and was in there from back in the day when he was the world champion. So he, he’s in there too. So I guess. Maybe they ask guys, Hey, who do you know?

They wanna be a legend, so whatever. Somebody was good to me. Whatever. I have a legend shirt. We don’t wanna go there. I know. Well, I was gonna take it off, but the legend shirts, we see it. Did we see it? Hold it.

Lynn Paxton: You

Ron Lauer: had to do that, didn’t you?

Lynn Paxton: Don’t take two of them. What the hell are you doing?

Hold the black

Ron Lauer: one down. Hold the black one. Oh my

Lynn Paxton: God. He needs help. He does need help.

Jimmy Maguire: This is the one Daytona gave me, but it had only stock cars on it. NASCAR’s stuff. Oh, I didn’t know

Lynn Paxton: you drove stock

Jimmy Maguire: cars. I did. I I wanna erase it. Uh, AllBridge. And that’s one of those pictures you got in that book Shows me the stock car.

I cut that picture out [00:54:00] now. It’s in there. I saw it in there. That’s the one I took out the other day. I’ve never made the stock car. 26 Ford at I won the race center and the planet all put it back down.

Ron Lauer: Who sponsors your underwear? I

Jimmy Maguire: don’t wear.

Ron Lauer: Oh, thanks for telling me. We needed to know that. I’m ready for action all the time.

What else do you have to tell us?

Jimmy Maguire: How about the Pauls jack? Whoa. The Pul adjust. Yeah. Yeah. When I was in the hospital with my one arm, he came to Indianapolis. He always went to Indianapolis and he said to me, do you want to go back racing? I said, sure, I’d love to go back. He said, well, I got a tq. It’s for him, tall ones in the country.

And he said, uh, would like you to drive, give you a shot? I said, okay. So I got outta the hospital and get married. Matter of fact, we getting married, my, my head wasn’t right for about a year, married

Lynn Paxton: a year. So you, [00:55:00] crap,

Ron Lauer: you got a big.

Jimmy Maguire: So about six months after I get outta the hospital, I get married November 7th and my head didn’t clear till about April of March of the next year. So every once in a while, you know you have family arguments with either wife. I said to her, you know, I get in a no and I said my head wasn’t right then you shit at me, you still isn’t right.

They all laugh, go to bed. You happy with each other, but. That really happened. That really is one of the things that happened. I got married when my head in my head was still in a circle, and you know what? My wife disappeared. She died 17 years ago. I’m trying to get up there, but she doesn’t want me. They said, you don’t want me up here.

You wanna keep me down here on earth, bother everybody. But I, I told my goal is to be a hundred years old now at Paxton, and I told Ton how I get there. I take 32 vitamins a day. Six of ’em I took at Pax House this morning. First thing I had, his wife made me a bowl of cereal. I took my six vitamin pills in the afternoon.

I have a bottle of Boost, which is B-O-O-S-T. Got 27 vitamins in that. I’ve been taking that for like 30 years and that’s why I’m in good shape and [00:56:00] do everything. I play bce. As long

Lynn Paxton: as you stay alive till 5 55 tomorrow afternoon when I put you in the airplane. That’s all I,

Jimmy Maguire: so I recommend that Boost. I don’t get any money for that. Boost is great Liquid drink. It is a, you’ve probably seen it on the market. It’s the most popular nutrition drink on the market. That’s why it sells out. The minute it goes into Walmart or anybody sells it, sell sells out immediately. So anyway, June came the following year.

I got in the car playing Pleasant Pleasantville Racetrack. I won the heat, the semi in the feature, and my first racetrack. I went arm and I had the hook that night to put the hook around. You know, I, I used this spinning knob like, you’re buying a stove for 25 cents. And I put my hook around there and I put elastic band around the hook to keep it closed.

You went on a bumpy track, your own asphalt. So I won the race and you know who I passed in the last lap to the league. Hank Rogers, Jr. Was his first race. He was served that kind of four years. It was his first year back and he got in Lenny Boyd’s car. He was running, leading the race. And of course I beat him.

And of course I didn’t really [00:57:00] know him till after the race. But then as time went on. He was the one that got me a ride to be a teammate with him, to Midt. And I also took the, even though he took my father’s ride, he said, I want you to be my teammate. He said, great

Lynn Paxton: Hank’s father. Did he send you Christmas

Jimmy Maguire: cards?

No, he never sent me anything.

Lynn Paxton: Oh, okay. Thank you.

Jimmy Maguire: Race drivers usually don’t send Christmas cards to each other. Oh, that’s a dig. In other words, uh, in Indian interviews when we talk about it, we kidding around with a driver. We say, well, he doesn’t send me Christmas cards anyway. You know, that’s the thing of I’m not gonna send you a Christmas card.

Or they’re the thing, you know what? They used to write about me when I was going to the USC championship. Yeah. They used to say, we’re gotta send McGuire Christmas cards in August because he’s not gonna be here. The way I used to drive, I mean that’s the way it was. I just was one of ’em guys to get my foot to the floor.

You see in all these young guys, they drive crazy and hard and you know you wanna run and look at the young guys that went in. That’s the way it works. You gotta move guys. Order, get out of the way. That’s the way it is and that’s the way I was. But I was young. I wanted to go fast and after about 15 times on my head, I slowed down a [00:58:00] little bit.

What happened when you fell off the bicycle? Oh, that’s another crash. I forgot I had another foot when I come down here. Now listen to this. This is something I come down here, I get in this over 55 group down here, right? I arrived the first Senate. And when they had trivia night, right? I go in the hall and I see a tape, all these guys sitting with yellow shirts at the table and they, they says, easy ride around ’em.

I said, this must be a motorcycle crew. So I said, do you have, can I sit in this chair? I went, yeah, sit down there. So I sit down there, I passed that night. The next week comes over and I ride at the table. Now I’m friendly with these guys. I said, listen, uh, what kind of bikes do you guys ride? He said, motorcycles.

He said, we don’t ride motorcycles, we ride bikes. Oh. So I said, well, can I join the club? Yeah. Trouble is I can’t ride a bike. I fell about five or six years before Riz. You couldn’t

Lynn Paxton: drive race car. But that didn’t stop.

Jimmy Maguire: Well, they said, I, what happened is I fell, I fell in my driveway and hit my head, and I got a bad concussion riding up with my two wheel bike.

That was about five years before. So I said, well, I said, you got anything against the three [00:59:00] wheeler? No. So I got a three, a nine speed, three wheeler, and I joined the club. And every, what we do is Monday, Wednesday and Friday we ride to a restaurant five or six miles one way. And then we ride home and we do about 10 miles a day every other day.

So I joined the bike club. That’s what I do. I, it’s part of my exercise. About three or four months after the three wheeler, we have a rule in the club. Stay six foot apart for each. Don’t ride vania. This one guy wanted to talk to me racing. So he pulls up beside me, right? And he’s got a regular two wheel brake.

My bike is wide. The three wheeler, if anybody rides it, his handlebar hits my handlebar. He calls my wheeler, go in, I flip in over in, oh, crash. I’m unconscious for half hour, right in front of one of the developments. They call the ambulance. I wake up, I’m in the ambulance. Where the hell are we going? He says, you had a crash on the bike.

What? Three weeks in the Holmes Hospital in in Melbourne for three weeks getting rehabilitated for a concussion. I broke three ribs on my left side. I got my side all scraped up. I had a helmet on, but you know that one of those cheap helmets from Walmart, it cracked. I got a inch and a half cash in my [01:00:00] head.

I had four stitches in my head. Anyway, I spent three, three weeks in the hospital and I got out and uh, I was okay. And here I am, crashed on a bike. Can you imagine that three wheel bike? What’s next? Nothing. I, I still ride the bike, but what I did is all the guys had these regular bike helmets. You see ’em, it’s just a flat thing, top of your head.

And they all wear that, but they didn’t have a crack. When I crashed, I did it. I split my head wide open. So you know what I did? I bought another helmet. I bought a full racing helmet. So when we’re all riding, I get the full racing helmet completely

Lynn Paxton: closed,

Jimmy Maguire: and they say, what you got? I said, I’m riding with this.

So everybody’s got the regular bike hats and I got a regular full helmet with flames on and everything else. And so I looked a little out of place. I’m riding with him, but that’s what I’m gonna ride with.

Ron Lauer: I told Lynn one time after you gave him your arm, I said, I’ll give you a helmet and a uniform, but you ain’t getting an arm from me.

Okay, so yours is the only one in here.

Jimmy Maguire: That’s right. I’m telling you interesting. I may not be millionaire like Mario, but uh, I do. Okay. Done a lot. [01:01:00] Other accomplishments, I guess, you know, I got a lot of friends in racing. A lot of people have been good to me. Like here, even though I get busted once in a while, guys like Len and, and uh, bill Wentz.

But it is all part of the game. It’s all like race drivers. We all exaggerate a little bit.

Ron Lauer: Yeah. We’ve heard everything else. How’s your level? Well, I was, I was

Jimmy Maguire: very good, you know. How far are you going with it? We’ve been in the movies a couple of times together and she’s 82, 81 years old. I’m 83. So the guys in the club say, ’cause she’s at the apartment next door.

She put a door from your apartment. Her, the condo says, she said wouldn’t approve that. But we’re all the same age. The oldest guy in my club, and he plays bocce. He’s 97 years old. The second oldest is 95, third oldest is 92. And they play bocce. You know, we have to hand him the blow, you know, and they can’t pick it up.

You know, we’re all full of pep and we do the things and I ride a bike and we swim. I swim six lap. Every other day and ’cause I hate to be outdone and when I see somebody older than me doing it, do it. You have any

Lynn Paxton: accidents with a bocce ball?

Jimmy Maguire: No. Nobody threw at you? No, not yet. I dropped it on my foot [01:02:00] times coming, I dropped it on my foot a couple of times, but, uh,

Lynn Paxton: yeah.

Jimmy Maguire: Do you wear, do you wear your helmet to play

Ron Lauer: bocce? None. Only when I ride the bike. I’m glad I asked that last question there a red line, 7,000 movie. Did you hear that question? Were you in a red line? 7,000 movie? There was a one arm driver in that movie. Oh. Hm. I thought it was, I

Lynn Paxton: thought she did a movie.

Didn’t you do excerpts for a movie? Well, I did a, yeah, I did a movie talking to the microphone. That’s did, I

Jimmy Maguire: did a movie, but I didn’t to drive race car. Was that a movie with a race

Lynn Paxton: guy?

Jimmy Maguire: It was a one arm driver. I, I did, made a movie, it’s called Baren Wolf Game on Trips, the worst movie that was ever made.

And they hired me to be a, a stunt driver. Lou Timon asked me, he was a radio announcer and the weatherman, they knew he was a race driver, so they needed stunt drivers to make this movie. So he called me as a stunt driver, and me and him were gonna be doing crazy things in race, in cars, regular cars called race and stuff like that.

But then when they, [01:03:00] when I appeared on set, the guy says to me, man, you could be a sto. See they had two stooges, STO number one and STO number two. And I was stu number one in the movie. That was my nanny. What we did is you were number one and two both. And when I, when I did the stunts, I had to wear a beard because they didn’t want me to look the same.

So I did a couple stunts wearing a beard. When I did in the movie, they had me go to a hairdresser, so they made hair all curly. They curled me hair up to look battalion and they gave me a suit and they made me hook 12 inches in diameter and put a little, and then they put a thing on the steering wheel and I drove a Cadillac.

We did crazy things on the road crashing here and there. One of the things these I did was my boss was a gangster and he had lent money to this guy to make a movie and he couldn’t pay my boss back. So we had to go after him. And that’s what the theme of the survey was, trying to get the money from this guy.

All the movies were made at night. We went to Brooklyn, right? We went to the Brooklyn Bridge and I got the guy and we want that money so he wouldn’t pay the money. So what we did is we took the hook, pushed him off, and [01:04:00] we hung him down with a rope on the Roosevelt Parkway and he’s traffic’s going, mine, he’s hanging by this rope.

That was one scene. Pull him back up. And through the whole movie, we’re trying to catch this guy to get the money. Catch this guy. It finally ended this way. We’re in Little Italy, right? And we’re at the counter like this, and I’m in the counter. You see my hook and my boss is sitting at the table with this guy.

So this guy, the bad guy, the good guy, and he’s starting to get the, he takes a fork and he sticks it in. My boss’s throat was sitting at the table in an Italian restaurant, and we had seven. We did this seven times. Every time he sucked the thing and bud would come all over the white jacket. But what the scene was, you saw the arm going forward, back in the studio, they had a guy there with a fake throat sticking the fork in it.

Bud skirt all over his jacket. So every time you did seen about seven scenes, they did the actual bleeding in the uh, studio. So you thought this guy was getting the throat stuck in him. So when this happened. The guy runs out. I run out after him and I get in the Cadillac, he gets [01:05:00] in, he gets in a sports car and I’m chasing him down the highway, right?

This is the way the movie ended. He lock some drink spin around, hits towards me, right? I, the last thing you see in the movie is me going, oh shit. He hits head on. There’s a big sport, big explosion in the movie. We both, we all get killed in the movie The boss is dead for, but I get killed from the head on collision and the last thing you see is me saying, oh shit, big explosion.

It was a canned explosion. Fire goes up like this. Then the curtain score across the screen, that movie couldn’t sell. It didn’t sell. So it went on private star and you know who was in the movie with us? She was the mama Do, no, we don’t wanna know. Joan Ell was the star. She was a mama do. And she ran Ahoe house.

This what. House. House would refused. And the hero was one. She, he went there all the time. So that’s where went, she’s in the movie running, doing something. I wasn’t even in that scene, but she was in the movie and a lot of [01:06:00] other stars were in the movie who made the movie. So the guys who made Shaft one, two, and three, they made this movie.

So anyway, how long, how long was that movie? It lasted about an hour. I, it was horrible. It was a horrible, when I saw the whole movie, you even, and they showed it, one of the guys from the Retirement Village I in, they found it on the, it’s on the, if you look on the Joan but ELs movie, it’s called Going to Netflix.

It’s on the Barn. Wolf one came, he found it and showed it at the clubhouse. It was horrible. We all laughed like hell at it. And they showed it at the Clubhouse in Florida and horrible. But you can get it if you go on Netflix. And go under Joan Mantel’s movies and read down a credits when you get Tover and Wolf Main trips.

I’m in that movie and, and you went to the Academy Awards? No, no. It’s a horror movie, but I made $3,500 because I had to join the Actors Guild. As long as you show up in the city, you get paid. I made 3,500 bucks for three weeks work, so I didn’t laugh at that. So I had a lot of, a lot of [01:07:00] memories in here.

Somebody told me, my lawyer told me, they said, you know, we should write a book. We probably make a few bucks. I said. Well, why don’t we wait till I’m a hundred years old? Because I mean, there might be a lot of things happening. You know how when you write a book, you sit down in a column with a writer and he pulls things outta you?

Lynn Paxton: Well, if you’re gonna write with your right hand, I’m quitting right now.

Jimmy Maguire: You know? That’s how writers sue. They sit down with the, with the victim or whoever you are, and they pull things outta you, and you say, yeah, that’s right too. I did that. I forgot that. And they read about your scrapbook and they say, what about, look, I’ve had a scrapbook for what, 60 years.

There’s a lot of things in there. I’m gonna sit, I’ve won 52 races, I only remember about 30. Who knows how many races I could have won, but I’m happy I’m alive. I had a lot of fun. I’m remembered I’m in Hall of Fame here and there and blah, blah, blah. And here I am here. But I, I gotta read the, read about it.

I say, oh geez, I wanna race there. I wanna race there. And I gave a lot of my trophies away. I got about maybe down in Florida, I got about 20 trophies. The big ones I got, I gave some to my father, my brother, you know, when I was single. Like the guy I stayed with for two years in Jersey, when I went to [01:08:00] race, I always gave him the trophies.

I was staying at his house, you know? So I just looked him there.

Ron Lauer: When you left Jersey to move to Florida, did you dig up all those cans in the yard with money in them? Yeah. I dig those. I thought you would I dig all those. That’s how I,

Jimmy Maguire: that’s how I paid cash for everything. I went to Florida. There you go.

You all had cash. I said, wow. What I did, I had four, two cars and I used to park my antique cos in the backyard. And my money was all, I was a ground guy. I put everything, I didn’t put anything in the bank or stocks or anything else. I put all my money in the ground. I used to tell the guys this. I had a metal plate.

I parked the antique pedal with the metal plate and, and the guys wouldn’t believe me, the guys I backed all the cars, that one, they lifted the metal plates up. One hit twenties and one hit tens and one hit fifties in and they were all filled up with money and I didn’t know how much was in there.

Finally, when I came to Florida, took on all and the guys believed me and they didn’t believe me when they said, wow. So all my antique cars, I parked a car on top of ’em. They had to steal the antique car to get the money, but everybody knew that. But nobody did anything. ’cause see, I knew all the crooks in town.

That was the secret.

Lynn Paxton: Hey, I don’t want you to let all your nuggets out. Now save [01:09:00] some of them. You don’t see pizza very often, but there it is. The only

Jimmy Maguire: reason I come up here is to look at this. It pretty spies me when I come up here. Thank you all. Thank

Lynn Paxton: you. Thank you everybody. Your water, your water’s down.

Crew Chief Brad: We hope you enjoyed this journey through racing history and the personal stories that keep the spirit of motorsports alive. The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premier destination for motor racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts, and memorabilia. To learn more about the EMMR or to be a part of the next in-person Racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www dotr.org.

Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content. Until next time, keep the engines running and the memories alive.[01:10:00]

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsports and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports.

Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media. As mentioned in the episode.

Mini-sode Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Racers Roundtable, a podcast sponsored by the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing where history meets horsepower and legends live on each episode brings together voices from across the motor sports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans as they share stories, insights, and behind the scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys.

Whether you’re a diehard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open wheel icons. The racers round table is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it. Strap in tight because it’s time to talk racing history one lap at a time.

Lynn Paxton: And I’m sorry to say, here’s my ears, so you gotta put up with me today. I know you’re all disappointed, but that’s tough. Shit. That’s the way it’s gonna be. Anyhow, before we get into our subject matter for today, I had a guy I thought was worth coming up here. [00:01:00] Billy wins.

Billy Wentz Sr: Billy, I know you guys. Uh. Glad to be here.

This is very impressive him. And, uh, thank you for all the work you guys did you put this thing together?

Lynn Paxton: Billy delivered parts from Bethlem over here to me today, and I offered to go pick him up now Billy, 96 years old and, uh, I, uh, I raced with him a little bit. Uh, he drove for SCAT team for I think eight years, something like that.

I know he is got one story when he had a good sprint car race. Do you want to tell us that story about how you run third in the heat race or feeling the car out? I to roll? Yes. Yeah.

Billy Wentz Sr: I can tell you a better story. I stand correct. URC had a race at William. Well. And we would invite all the people as long as they conform to our rules.

That means Kenny, well, Jan, I from Mitch Smith, whoever wanted to come in and I’ll tell you what, those [00:02:00] guys were just awesome. There was no contest. Well, we drew. We drew for spot starting spots. I got the full position. Wow. And guess who was outside Kenny Weld In Whiter car. So I thought, well, this is, this is gonna be no contest.

It was a Sunday afternoon. And the, and the, the cars couldn’t grab that track at all. It was slick as could be. It was just right. I had a 3 27, I was half wore out and I looked at, I heard that whiter car next to me. I thought, this is gonna be fun. It comes down for the green flag. All I heard was buzzing on his, on outside, and I grabbed the racetrack and I took off.

This went on. We had four restarts and every restart, I beat him to the punch. I come off first, but by the time I got going good, they got pictures of it. The front shocks went out and one frame, this wheel was up. The other frame, that wheel was up and it was so much for me to hold on [00:03:00] to. Went down in one and two, and I spun the car.

But. I kept going and I thought, well, I come out about 10th or 11th from first, and I thought, well, I’ll, I’m still in the race. So I came about and they give me the black flag that can’t be for me. So Louis Ks was, was the starter that day, and I refused to come in. They almost had to come out there and yank me out of that car.

I come in and I was so goddamn mad for him doing, I said, I didn’t spend and stop. I just spun. He says, well, the guy in the corner with a yellow flag, he hung it up. He said, had no choice. I said, well, at least I give him a little bit of a run for money. But, uh, to start alongside a Kenny welder in any car, it was a thrill for me.

I would go to the Grove every chance I get. And we always had underpowered cars that just for scratching, no chess With scratching? Yeah, with scratching cars. Well, they were always underpowered. They had, yeah, probably [00:04:00] we, we did pretty good. We qualified and I guess one year we got a seventh or eighth out of it and it wasn’t too bad.

Just the idea going out and competing with these guys. It was just awesome.

Lynn Paxton: But I’m talking about 1962. You had a, a ride you were gonna go to Florida with, and you got Oh yeah. Okay.

Billy Wentz Sr: I got a call one day, it was in the winter time, and it was a guy by the name of JJ Smith from Straton said, bill, do you want to go to Tampa?

Drive my car? Uh, I had to think that one over. I said, hell yeah. Yeah, I’ll be there now. I didn’t know if I could get time off, but I was going no matter what. So we made arrangements. He said, I want you come up to the garage, get fitted in the car. We’ll talk about the arrangements about how to get the car down.

You’re gonna have to take it down. He worked for the railroad, so he just rode the railroad. So now I’m all pumped up. I’m going to go to Tampa. I have my bags packed, everything ready. A week before I was ready [00:05:00] to leave, I got a phone call from his kid. He said, Hey, um, my dad fell and broke his heart. I said, really glad, I’m sorry to hear that.

He said, we won’t be going to Florida. I said, well, the car is ready to go, isn’t it? He said, yeah, but that car don’t go unless the old man goes. I. So you could travel with a broken arm. It ain’t that bad. He says he’s not going to take the car down. And I thought, oh shit. You don’t know how pumped I was. He said, listen, in a couple months it’ll be nice and the The Grove will be open.

So you’ll have the rides for the grove. Well, I guess I had to wait for the grove finally came around. Race day. I’m ready. I’m pumped. So I go out there. It was a pretty good race car that had a flathead board. They ran pretty good and it was a decent ride. I go out there, I get fitted in the car, we go out warmups.

The car felt. We got a fourth. I’m taking an easy field in the car out. I thought, ah, good. Now [00:06:00] we’re all set for the future. I figured I think I could eat a hot dog. So I went down to the stand. I got a hot dog and a Coke, and I’m talking to my buddies down there. Oh, i’s getting feature time. I better get back up there again.

So I walk up the. I looked at the car, somebody’s sitting in my car. I felt like the three bears. Somebody’s in my bed. Who might that a bit? I don’t know. I don’t. I looked at it, says McGuire. Gimme McGuire. What the hell are you doing in my whatcha doing in my seat? He says, I’m driving a car. I said, the hell you are?

He said, I’m driving the car. I said, how’d that happen? And the owner didn’t even want to talk to me. He was embarrassed. So I finally collared him. I says, Hey, what’s going on? I drove the car. He said, listen, bill, I’m gonna pay you for the heat. I said, you paid $10. He said, I’ll pay you for the heat, but Jimmy’s gonna drive the car in the future.

I said, why? I qualified the car. He said, well, Jimmy says you don’t have the [00:07:00] experience he has and he could do a much better job if this none of a bitch can drive. Like he talk like he talks, he’s gonna win the feature today. Well, you wanna hear the end of the story? Yes, we do. It was kind of sweet to me, but not the reach.

To wish anybody bad luck. He fold it up in the feature and, uh, loading it up on a trailer, I walked over, I said, you know what? I could have done that myself.

Lynn Paxton: Now, McGuire, you’re gonna allow to rebut that later on. Not right now, but later on. Okay. Anyhow, I remember the first picture I seen of him was in an old number three. It was in NARA, it would’ve been in the fifties. It was a basket case looking and he was just a young pup in there. But tell him what car that was and who helped you put that together.

Billy Wentz Sr: Well, you know, I used to hang out at a hill to shop [00:08:00] and I’d go down there. Any fact, a tavern, I’ll hang out down there. Any place there was a race bar or or drivers, I would be there. I wanted so much to be a part of it. We had an old car. It wasn’t much to talk about, but it was an introduction to racing.

So I walked behind Hill at the shop and I saw there’s an old frame there. It was a two frame, and I thought, my God, it’s all busted up. I’ll bet you I could buy this from fire. So I went in there and said to hire him. I. I wanna buy that car back there. He says, it’s not a car. It’s only pieces. It’s junk.

It’s not for sale. He says, that’s a car that Ley Campbell got killed in. And he says, I don’t want to sell it to anybody. Well, I, I went back the next day and the next day and the next day he got tired of seeing, he says, what the hell are you gonna do with it? I said, I need the tubing. I’m building a race bar.

I said, that’s called Molly. I need some of that tubing. He said, but if you make a car out of this thing and something happens, it’s gonna make me look [00:09:00] bad. I said, I promise I won’t make a car out of it. I lied. I took it home. I didn’t have a garage. I didn’t have any tools. I didn’t have a welder. I had had nothing.

All he had an idea that I was going to be a race car driver. Somehow I took this down in the basement, took a carpenter square, and made a a rectangle out of it and start laying the pieces out. I thought, well, how am I gonna do this? I don’t have the facility, the faculty to do these things. If I go over to Sketch, he’s gonna kill me.

I’ll take it down to Frank Murray. Now, Frank Murray was building his own shop, his own body shop at the time by hand, digging the foundation, putting the blocks in and everything. So there were three of us. I took my other two buddies in with me under the condition that this is our car, not my car, it’s our car.

We were all three of us in it. But guess what? I’m the driver. I don’t care what you guys do. I’m going to drive this thing, no matter how it turns out. So [00:10:00] I finally convinced him. We took it down to Frank Murray. His wife says, get that thing the hell out of here. We’re trying to build a shop and I don’t want you to waste Frank’s time.

They said, listen, mark, stop and think of it. He’s over there with a shovel taking a foundation. One person, he can be working on our race car, and there’s three of us with three shovels doing three times the work. You know, backhoe would’ve been a lot better. Saw the bus that for a while, he says, okay, so Frank took it over.

No, we had the pad, just the, the, the concrete pad to start with. And he took it over. He had a couple rings in there and a jack and he welded that that thing straightened that thing out. They used a stainless steel wire to put it together. We’ve got all four parts. Whatever it stock is two wheel mechanical brakes.

Terrible thing you bought for 50 bucks. Well then I had $50 on my pocket. I went over to huffing junk yard. I said, I got 50 bucks. I want buy a motor for a race car. You get the hell outta here. [00:11:00] I said, well, this is what I got. And one of his helpers said, Hey, that Ford six that came in here in 1954, it was on fire.

He says, I’ll bet that you could make a good race car engine out of that thing. I went down and took a look at it and said, how much you want? He said, 75 bucks. I got 50. That’s what I’ll give you. So we went back and forth, took the 50, we loaded up, took it home. We fitted that thing in. Long story short, we didn’t have all the money to put it together the right way, so we bought flexible tubing and we used that for an exhaust pipe, and we went around the track.

It was at least a whistle, and it was so unique to hear it. You could hear that thing. Whistle. Was that you whistling or the car? No, the car with was, I was just smiling. All I was happy Went at to Lee Height for the first race up there and I won. There was 10 cars, shows up, 10 cars with a national, all the Racing Association, 10 cars show up and I won the feature.

Guess how much I [00:12:00] got? Nothing. We didn’t have enough money to pay everybody until the guys from out of town get to town at 10 and $15. I said, forget about it. I know I won. That’s all I need to know. Who built the body for the car? The body was there. He just straightened it out. He didn’t straighten it.

Very good. Look like a refugee from, we went to Hy Hill and he had a guy by the name of Drum Hiller. We, man. Yeah, yeah. And he made up a, a hood and a cow for that was 75 bucks. That was the most expensive thing on the car. But we got it together and we went racing with it. It didn’t go very fast. The only people scared was the driver.

So as far as tires go, we go to Charlie Sacks and buy his tires when the knobs were off for five bucks, and we use them tires on every surface. Guess how fast we were? Mm-hmm. It was experience, that’s all it was. You weren’t the guy that put ’em on the front, were you? No. Oh, okay. So I [00:13:00] finally got a couple rides here and there and I made my way to, Scott’s asked me to drive for him and that was a big thing for me.

And I drove for Scotts for eight hours, eight years. And he was the best person I ever met in racing in or outer racing. He was a hell of a man. I have to say. I quit him one day. He said that You can’t quit me. I said, why? He said, I had Mario in my car. I had everybody, all the good drivers I had in my car.

The only guy I ever put in my car was McGuire. I said, well, I don’t know how you missed that, how you missed that race, didn’t you? You, he didn’t have a good enough car. No. That’s Say you the only guy that did, he offered, he offered me driving the car, but he

Lynn Paxton: said, bill, what’s describing it? I said, I don’t want.

Jimmy Maguire: I’m,

if he’s driving that, I don’t wanna drive.

Billy Wentz Sr: He said he

couldn’t afford you.

Jimmy Maguire: That’s right, that’s right. Well,

I, I

required 50% whenever I drove any, anybody,

Billy Wentz Sr: but I, I drove for him for, uh, quite a while and I, him, he was there to play, [00:14:00] didn’t want getting his daughter though, so I was out of there. I got hooked up with Pete Sach and it was much better for me.

But as far as the person goes. You couldn’t beat Scot. He was just amazing, man. How about, tell me a bit about Scott, about your association with Stan Lopez. Well, I met Stan out at the shop, down s Scott’s shop. He’s another guy, you know, I used to go up there for the, for the banquets for this party a lot.

He was just amazing. One day he said, uh, I wanna show you something. When said, took me over to his, one of his Quo Hus and he said, I have your first race car. I said, the hell you do. I said, you couldn’t have it. He said, I have your first race car. And he showed it to me and I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that he had that first one.

The body was made from an old Coca-Cola side. It was crude as you can be. We had a pull it with a rope. That’s how we started. We didn’t have a bumper for him the hard way. That’s the way I had the hard way, but had a lot of fun. Had a lot [00:15:00] of fun. Has

Lynn Paxton: anybody got any questions? I mean, he’s seen it all. He precedes me by a whole lot, and that’s hard to say, but he does.

Audience: Did you ever think in your lifetime you’d see a sprint car race? Pay a million dollars to win? A million to win What Eldora did this year?

Lynn Paxton: This year paid a million dollars to win the race. Bobby Allen’s car won it.

Billy Wentz Sr: Oh my God. Yeah. Million. A million

Lynn Paxton: dollars. A million bucks. One race. Damn. I raced my whole

career.

Didn’t make that kind

of money. They made it one night.

Billy Wentz Sr: If I ever got a hundred dollars, I thought I’d win the lottery, but you know, it wasn’t about money. I want to have enough money so I could keep raising, put the money back in the car, which I never did and never paid for until. I’m borrowing a little bit out a paycheck once in a while.

Lynn Paxton: Take

food

off the table for the family.

Billy Wentz Sr: Yeah, working two extra jobs. It was tough to keep it together. Then finally, when I and I, I never turned my old car over when I drove for other people. Yes. [00:16:00]

Lynn Paxton: Was that intentional?

Billy Wentz Sr: No. No. It does not. It just happen

that way.

That’s built in.

Lynn Paxton: Anybody else? You

got a chance here.

Audience: Did you ever run Lang?

Billy Wentz Sr: It was one of my long desires. I’ve always wanted to go there because it was a, to me, when I seen those guys run down there, that was the extreme test. I never got to run. Not lying horn, but I did run the mile and eight at Nazareth and Syracuse. I love Nazareth. Nazareth Track was great.

I drove a, a car for, uh, Jimmy up there one time and it was a lot of fun.

Audience: Did McGuire ever get any good?

Billy Wentz Sr: I can’t say he not. He’s not smiling over there looking. Come on Jimmy Smile.

Jimmy Maguire: I take three hours. Can I do that?

Lynn Paxton: No, you can’t.

Billy Wentz Sr: What do you want me to do?

Lynn Paxton: I can’t have you both [00:17:00] up here at the same time. You know why? There’d be a hell of a fist fight and your nose would be on the other side hand.

Billy Wentz Sr: You gotta gimme a hand getting down.

Lynn Paxton: We thank you very much. He was hand, we only had pay him a hundred bucks to come, so that wasn’t bad.

Jimmy Maguire: I’m here for No, you’ll put me up. You know I’m making money with you. That’s good. I’m giving it back to you.

Lynn Paxton: Anyhow. Anyhow, what can I say now? You heard how you cut him out of a ride and he told the story pretty good.

I thought, is there a rebuttal to the story?

Jimmy Maguire: Of course there is.

It was

I

a lie.

Lynn Paxton: It didn’t happen that way

Jimmy Maguire: half a lot.

Good ride. I’m gonna, I’m gonna see if I can lie better.

Crew Chief Brad: We hope you enjoyed this journey through racing history and the personal stories that keep the spirit of motor sports alive. The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premier destination for motor [00:18:00] racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts, and memorabilia.

To learn more about the EMMR or to be a part of the next in-person racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www dotr.org. Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content.

Until next time, keep the engines running and the memories alive.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsports and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.patreon.com/gt [00:19:00] Motorsports.

Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the episode.

In 2023, NASCAR named Jimmy Maguire a “Saturday Night Hero” and a Living Legend. Mario Andretti delivered a heartfelt tribute, praising Jimmy’s resilience and innovation. “He was really on his way to the top,” Andretti said, “and after his accident, he showed you can’t keep a good man down.”

McGuire wasn’t just a fan favorite – he was a fan’s driver. He insisted kids join him in Victory Lane, signed autographs, and made sure every photo had smiling faces. He won six consecutive “Most Popular Driver” awards at Grandview Speedway, a record that ended only because no one else could win. During a race in Australia, Maguire jokingly told the local trophy queen he’d win just to kiss her. He did – and then carried her across the track in front of a stunned crowd. The local paper quipped, “I guess in America they take the trophy girl home.” His wife and the girls boyfriend were both in the stands; Everyone laughed.

The Final Lap

Now in his 80s, Maguire credits his longevity to 32 vitamins a day, a bottle of Boost, while participating in a bocce ball league where the oldest player is 97, at his retirement home in Florida. He still rides a three-wheeled bike (even after a crash that sent him to the hospital), swims laps, and tells stories that leave listeners in stitches.

Jimmy Maguire’s life is a masterclass in perseverance, humor, and the sheer joy of racing. Whether flipping cars, kissing queens, or outsmarting car owners, he’s lived every moment with passion and purpose. And as the curtain closed on this episode of The Racers Roundtable, one thing was clear: legends aren’t born—they’re built, one lap at a time.

There’s more to this story…

Bill Wentz Sr with Lynn Paxton. Photo courtesy EMMR; Photo by Edward Radesky

In this mini-sode, 96-year-old Billy Wentz Sr, recounts his extensive racing career, including memorable races and interactions with notable racers like Jimmy Maguire. Billy shares anecdotes from his early days in racing, constructing his first car, and the camaraderie and challenges faced in the sport.

About the EMMR

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premiere destination for motor racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts and memorabilia.

Each roundtable brings together voices from across the motorsports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans, as they share stories, insights, and behind-the-scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys. Whether you’re a die-hard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open-wheel icons, the Racers Roundtable is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it.

To learn more about the EMMR, or to take part of the next in-person Racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit, or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www.EMMR.org. Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Copyright Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. This episode was recorded in front of a live audience at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. This content in this episode has been remastered and published with the EMMRs consent; and has been reproduced as part of the Motoring Podcast Network and can be found everywhere you stream, download or listen to podcasts!

Bob Varsha: The Voice Who Brought Le Mans to America

Gran T

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February 10, 2026

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Bob Varsha: The Voice Who Brought Le Mans to America

For over a century, the 24 Hours of Le Mans has stood as one of motorsport’s most enduring legends – a race that blends endurance, engineering, and human drama into a spectacle unlike any other. For American fans, much of that magic was translated through the voice of Bob Varsha, one of the most recognizable narrators in motorsport broadcasting. His signature blend of technical insight and storytelling helped transform Le Mans from a distant European tradition into a must-watch event for U.S. audiences.

Our commentary crew once we moved indoors into our Charlotte studios in the late 2010’s: Calvin Fish, me, Brad Kettler (Former Audi customer boss in N.America), Jamie Howe, Brian Till, Tommy Kendall; Photo courtesy Bob Varsha.

Varsha’s path to the commentary box was anything but conventional. Trained as a lawyer at Emory Law School, he seemed destined for a career in the courtroom. Yet his passion for running—he competed in the 1976 Olympic Trials—led him into Atlanta’s vibrant sports community. A chance invitation to commentate on the Peachtree Road Race opened the door to broadcasting, first with Turner Broadcasting and later CNN.

In the old town for dinner in 2018: Justin Bell, producer Pete Richards, Greg Creamer, Jamie Howe Sellers, me, Calvin Fish. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha

When CNN downsized after the 1984 Olympics, Varsha stumbled into motorsport almost by accident. A trailer in the Turner parking lot housed World Sports Enterprises, a pioneering motorsports production company. With no prior racing knowledge, Varsha dove headfirst into covering IMSA’s Camel GT series, learning the craft alongside legends of the sport. That leap eventually brought him to ESPN, where he became a fixture in Formula One, MotoGP, and endurance racing coverage.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Varsha’s Le Mans journey began in 1986, when producer Terry Langner tapped him to join the ESPN crew. Arriving at the Circuit de la Sarthe, he was struck by the sensory overload: the sound of engines echoing through the French countryside, the patchwork of industrial parks, farmland, and forest that make up the eight-mile circuit. His first night trackside brought both awe and danger—bits of bodywork from a Mercedes exploded tire rained down on him and his Japanese colleagues. It was a baptism into the unpredictable theater of Le Mans.

Early Setup, 2013. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha

Synopsis

On this episode of Evening With a Legend we interview Bob Varsha, a renowned motorsport broadcaster, about his extensive career and experiences covering the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Varsha discusses his unconventional path from law to broadcasting, the intricacies of commentating long endurance races, memorable moments at Le Mans, and his broadcasting style. The conversation also touches on the logistics and challenges of broadcasting such a complex event, the evolution of motorsport broadcasting and facilities at Le Mans, and advice for aspiring broadcasters. The interview provides a deep dive into Varsha’s contributions to motorsport broadcasting and his love for storytelling.

Everyone has a unique “Road to Le Mans” story; take us through the events that led you to get “that first call” to come to announce the 24.
What was that experience like calling the 24 Hours of Le Mans (compared to other events), and how did you prepare for such a complex event? Who were you in the box with?
What were some of the biggest challenges of commentating on a 24-hour race compared to shorter formats like Formula 1 or IndyCar?
Can you share a moment from your Le Mans broadcasts that you consider the most dramatic or memorable?
How did you approach balancing the technical side of the race with storytelling to keep both hardcore fans and casual viewers engaged?
What role do you think broadcasters play in shaping the way audiences perceive Le Mans and endurance racing in general?
Were there times when the unpredictability of Le Mans forced you to adapt your commentary style on the fly?

Transcript

Crew Chief Eric: [00:00:00] Evening With a Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to legends of the famous 24 hours of Le Mans giving us an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you. By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance to become part of the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.

Tonight we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you sharing in the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing. And as your host, I’m delighted to introduce Bob Varsha, one of America’s most recognizable voices in Motorsport broadcasting, bringing his signature depth, clarity, and enthusiasm to coverage of the 24 hours Le Mans for us audiences.

Over the years, Bob served as lead commentator for [00:01:00] networks like Speed Channel and ESPN guiding viewers through the complexities of the race with a rare blend of technical knowledge and storytelling, his ability to balance real-time analysis and historical context made Le Mans’s broadcast, both engaging for seasoned fans and accessible for newcomers.

Whether calling the drama of late night stints, dissecting strategy, or capturing the emotion of the finish, Bob’s commentary helped elevate Le Mans into a must watch event for American Motorsport. Enthusiasts cementing his reputation as one of the sport’s premier narrators. And with that, I’m your host crew chief Eric from the Motoring Podcast Network, welcoming everyone to this evening with a legend.

So Bob, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Eric. Pleasure to be here. Bob, you started your broadcasting career in 1980, and your first LA mob broadcast was in 1986, still in the days of quote unquote the old Le Mans before all of the renovations. So let’s talk about your unique. Road to Le Mans story and take us through the [00:02:00] events that led you to get that first call to come announce the 24.

Bob Varsha: My entire career, all 41 years of it, I guess, has been total happenstance. I trained as a lawyer at Emory Law School here in Atlanta. Figured that was gonna be my career. I was gonna be an attorney and I was for about four years, but I was also a distance runner of some note Olympic trials in 1976 for the Montreal Games.

I did very well. Finished six there. So I was kind of a part of the running community here in Atlanta. And Atlanta is a big running town, so, um. By Hooker, by Crook. I wound up as the executive director of the Atlanta Track Club, and our biggest event of the year was and is the Peachtree Road Race, 65,000 people running a 10 K through Atlanta on the 4th of July.

And I got an invitation from a local TV broadcaster to come and help comment on the race because I knew it inside and out. So I did that, didn’t think much about it. And then I got a call from Turner [00:03:00] Broadcasting, which is based here in Atlanta. They said, would you like to come and do that for our national broadcast?

And I said, okay, great. So I did it. A few weeks after that, I got a phone call offering me a part-time job, which wound up being 22nd news reports in the commercial breaks of the late night movies. But one thing led to another and I moved to CNN Sports and CNN radio and on and on and on because those opportunities were there.

To be honest, I was the only guy in the very small CNN radio sports department eventually got fired in Word. We had a great news department on the CNN side with great people. Kathleen Sullivan, Dan Patrick, Keith Berman. These folks were all at CNN when I was, but for whatever reason, oh, well I know the reason.

It was after the 84 Olympics in, uh, Los Angeles. They wanted to slim down the department, so I was let go. But I knew that out in the parking lot at Turner Broadcasting, there was a construction [00:04:00] trailer, which housed the first ever motor sports production company I’d ever heard about called World Sports Enterprises.

So I went over there and said, Hey, is there a job here? And they said, yep, come on. So I became a Motorsports reporter at that point, having no knowledge whatsoever about Motorsports. They sent me off to do the uh, camel GT program and the great days of the Porsche nine 60 twos and the Nissans and Toyotas and what have you.

I went there, learned a lot, met some ESPN people. Who asked, will you come and host some of our stuff? So, you know, that was sort of the theme of my career. I was inundated with opportunities, picked and chose and, and wound up 10 years at ESPN. And it was during those 10 years that I became a Le Mansr host, a Formula one host, plus motorcycles, motor gp, and all sorts of things.

Or whenever there was an opportunity at ESPN, I put my hand in the air because I love telling stories and I love researching new things. Loved the [00:05:00] people I worked with. And so, you know, it all really worked out. And then it became Speed, vision, outdoor Life, and uh, Fox Sports and so on and so forth. And now I’m a freelancer just looking for work here, there, and everywhere.

You ask how I got to Le Mans, it was a phone call from our coordinating motor sports producer, a guy named Terry Langner, who also stuck me into the Formula One seat. As I said, I love telling stories. The internet was alive and growing, so there was plenty of opportunity to learn various nuances. I also knew who I was working with.

We had a great crew, David Hobbs, Brian Till, Calvin Fish, and the group kind of changed over the years, but we had basically. 10 solid announcers, some of which knew vastly more than I did, like HaBO and others, who, this isn’t gonna sound right, but needed a little guidance, a little, um, mentoring. Yeah, mentoring.

There you go. But I also had tremendous respect for Le Mansr. You know, I used to do my [00:06:00] search by reading everything I could get my hands on. I had a shelf of books just like that one behind you. And dug through them working with a producer to find out what we’re likely to be talking about. Fully aware that our pictures and television is a picture medium, not a words medium.

We’re coming from the French who create the world feed, as we call it, that everybody uses supplementing with a camera or two, which is what we did.

So you get to Le Mans 86, the first time you’re on hallowed ground.

Bob Varsha: Absolutely. The first time I went to Le Mans. We had a, a skeleton crew for ESPN and we stayed in people’s houses.

We rented space. I was in a house with a small crew of Japanese television people. Nobody spoke any English. We go out on the, uh, the first day and Le Mansr is really all about sounds. The daily traffic stops, it goes away. And then the trucks come and bolt on the armco and then the sweeper trucks come through and, and clear the road.

And then you hear off in the distance miles away. The car’s starting up, [00:07:00] run, run, run, run, run. And then they, they go, which means they’ve left the pit lane and they’re going up over the Dunlop curve and down through, uh, church Rouge and onto the straightaway. And that’s when the engine note goes Rain.

And it never comes down because they’re coming down the mosan and there’s no other chicanes there or anything. And uh, so my Japanese pals and I are standing up by the Armco. I let my ego get the best of me. So I’m gonna show these Japanese guys what’s going on. And we watch a car go by Porsche and the Japanese guys look at me and say, ah, I, there goes a Jaguar about the fourth or fifth car that comes by, gets to within.

50 yards of us and he goes, ring blows a tire. It was one of the Mercedes, the Salberg Heim Mercedes was introducing Michelin’s new long distance racing [00:08:00] tire. This thing went off with a bang that would deafen you and for about the next 30 seconds, little bits of race car came raining down on us. So we all got a a little souvenir of the body work of the Mercedes.

But part of the magic of LA Mall is it’s different every quarter of a mile. You’re either you’re in the Bugatti circuit or you’re out going down through Terra Rouge. Uh, you go through an industrial park and there’s a stadium there, and then you’re off into the trees until they come out down at Mosan Corner and that’s like farmland and then back down through Indianapolis and Arage and Porsche.

So it’s like a different racetrack every quarter of a mile. The scenery is different. The, uh, pavement is different. You can get as deep into Le Mans as you like. You know,

and then you’ve been to many tracks around the world and around the country. Mm-hmm. What was the experience of calling the 24 like compared to other events like the Indy 500 or Daytona or anything like that?

Bob Varsha: So, you know, it, it was a big, kind of [00:09:00] fraternal kind of thing. A big adventure. We all got on, fly over to Charles Leal airport, go down to the TVG platform, get on the, the rocket train and, and be in Le Mans in an hour or so. Having said that, there was an awful lot to get used to. The French do things their own way as everybody does credentialing and parking.

And where are we staying? Where we eating and you know, all that kind of nitty gritty stuff had to be sought out. But again, having HaBO there, having raced in the 24 hours, 20 times, it was pretty easy to find our way around. And just about any time you approached one of the old hands that was directing traffic and they spotted David, they would recognize him and suddenly they couldn’t do enough for us.

So it was kind of a, um, golden road we had because we had David there as our credential, if you like.

You mentioned HaBO a couple of times already. Yep. More than just coworkers, but friends I’ve seen you guys present before together in, in other, uh, instances. And he was just [00:10:00] here on evening with a legend, as a matter of fact.

So any good stories, some good gossips, some good dirt on behind the scenes with HaBO in the LeMans box.

Bob Varsha: Oh God. David and I traveled together for 25 years or so doing Formula One, but at Le Mansr, obviously he was working with this huge backlog of experiences. Not a lot of those stories can be told on a family show.

We kind of hooked up with the British television contingent, as you might expect, and just had some great times and sort of helped each other out when somebody was short of a body or some information or some video or whatever it might happen to be. But David could tell so many stories about Le Mansr. It’s one of the great regrets of his life, I can tell you as it is with Mario Andretti, that they didn’t win the overall at Le Mansr.

The great driver, Bob Wallach once won a GT category and someone was congratulating him on the podium and he said, oh, it’s just a class win. As if it didn’t count. [00:11:00] Everybody wants to win the overall, David did win things. He won the index of performance one year driving a spitfire. He won some GT things.

He was third in the overall once He accomplished a lot there, but he didn’t have that one big. Win. We had lots of fun dealing with that in various way, shape, or form during, uh, the broadcasts. How do you prepare for such a long race? It’s a complex race. It’s a fairly compact racetrack. You know, the Bugatti circuit is the purpose built racetrack within the big eight mile loop of public roads that constitutes Le Mansr race course.

And there’s not a lot of room in there when you get 60 racing teams and all of their stuff. And, and since that first race, way back when in the old LA Mall, teams like Porsche and Audi and so on have erected these giant garages behind the pit lane. People everywhere. It can get pretty chaotic there, but you know, but it’s still fun [00:12:00] because you know, you’re still there, you’re at LA Mall, you’ve got a job to do and you’re going to, uh, to do it.

We would rotate responsibilities. So I actually put in some time as a pit reporter during the, uh, nighttime hours and uh, I would remember walking down the pit lane and above. On top of the building were hundreds of people sitting with their legs dangling over the edge of the roof. And I would hear people yelling, oh, ESPN, Hey Faria, what are you doing?

And of course, a lot of ’em were drunk as hell, but that was okay. Nobody fell off. But if you’ve seen the movie Le Mans, you get little glimpses of what it was actually like back then. The characters, you know, stomping around in these dusty concrete hallways behind the garages. It was pretty rustic, I have to say.

And in fact, after one of their appearances in the race without a result, the Jaguar team might have been that first year in 1986, spray painted on the inside walls of their garage. We will be back. They are putting so much [00:13:00] ego into coming back, having not won the race since 1957 with a D type. Tom Walkinshaw was selling a bill of goods about what they could accomplish, which they finally did.

Yeah, that was uh, the crazy old days at Le Mansr. Now it’s all clean and shiny and that’s a good thing. ’cause it desperately needed it. It was all part of a general. Wake up period. In international motor sport, you cannot just be an athletic endeavor or contest. You have to be entertaining. You have to follow up your stories.

You have to honor your past greats, you know, all of these things. You had to have good facilities, clean bathrooms, and all that sort of thing. But they left some touches there that I appreciate and point out to people from time to time. It’s a magical place. It really is.

On evening with a legend. We happen to have a lot of pro drivers come on here.

And obviously we know what their job description is, drive car fast, win races, right? But there’s so many other jobs that are going on at the same time in this microcosm that is the [00:14:00] 24 hours of Le Manss. So I wanna hone in a little bit more on what happens in the box. Let’s talk about some of the challenges of commentating a 24 hour race.

There’s only a few in the world. Le Mans, Rolex, Bergrin and Spa being the big four on the list, but how does that compare to commentating action packed races that are more condensed, like IndyCar and Formula One?

Bob Varsha: Well, it’s an entirely different exercise. You know, short races are a bit more intense. It’s more important that you stay on top of everything as it’s happening.

Long races. I actually prefer, because you can speak more, you can bring up stories, you can do things. And that’s more interesting to me. ’cause as I said, I got into it to tell stories and, uh, there’s so many great stories. I’ve met so many wonderful people over the years that, yeah, I just prefer those long races.

I like that. Have a subject that I can really tear big chunks out of and chew ’em up.

So like the drivers do the broadcasters have minimum air times or maximum [00:15:00] air times that you can be behind the mic?

Bob Varsha: Not by rule, we do. Just for the sake of maintaining energy and that sort of thing. Typically we would have two teams of announcers, two or three up top may be supplemented by.

Someone we bumped into and invited up to the booth, and then two groups of probably three pit reporters each. ’cause uh, that’s a long pit lane at Le Mansr. You gotta be very careful. You can’t walk down the pit lane as such because the pit marshals or commissars as, uh, Derek Bell likes to call them. Are out there telling you to get outta the way and the cars are coming up from behind you, yada, yada, yada.

So yeah, it takes manpower, no doubt about it. And then you have the technical side, and those folks are supplemented, of course, by the World Feed and what you get, your audio and video all worked out. You have. Two to three cameras of your own, and there’s a story behind that. You’d have a high camera looking down on the pit complex, you would have two pit cameras walking up and down, [00:16:00] especially during the night because that first year we went to LA Mall with ESPN, nobody seemed to know until our production manager found out that the French World feed does not play all night.

We’re there to do the 24 hours. We had this big six hour hole in the middle of the night with the French all go home. So we had to quickly rig up a system, which amounted to me in front of a green screen type of arrangement. It was actually a tarp hung over. A two by four nailed to the wall and they would play headlights running around in the dark while I was sitting on a stool and basically talking about anything I could think of for, for six hours.

We, we did have one guy over in the pits, so he would interrupt from time to time with something happening down there. But yeah, I mean, we almost got caught with our pants down in terms of. Having pictures to show the folks at home. Then, fortunately, within a few years, they had a [00:17:00] 24 hour French feed. It’s spectacular.

They do a great job, including the um, Le Mans Air Force, we call it. It was like six helicopters in a relay type race. They would land at the airstrip, which is right across the country road from the racetrack, where teams would go to warm engines and check repairs and adjustments and go up and down the runway.

But these helicopters. Pass the baton and just go and go and go for the whole 24 hours, which is great fun.

Well, you mentioned earlier you have a very, very long tenure at the 24 hours Le Mans from 86 all the way up through 2016 with three different broadcasting companies, ESPN, speed, vision, and then Fox.

You kind of described a memorable moment there, but. Are there some from the races themselves that stick out to you? One of them, for me growing up, watching the race every year was when Audi stage, the three cars crossing the line together and you guys are like, can you believe this? We haven’t seen this since, you know, the 1960s or whatever.

Like those moments captured with your [00:18:00] voice and with HaBO and everybody else. Are there others that really stuck with you? Were important.

Bob Varsha: Oh gosh, yes. One of the E early ESPN years. Well, we didn’t have a booth and I was sitting in the back seat of a van with, it was Larry Newberg from ESPN. As I mentioned earlier, Jaguar had said, we will return.

We wanna win this race. So they started coming back and failing until 1988. They came with a fleet of cars, five and all, including all of their factory guys, plus Danny Sullivan, who I was doing. Champ Car with at that time Derek Daley, who I did Champ Car and Formula One with, you know Davey Jones. A lot of very, very good drivers.

Race goes on. Big dramatic moment was when Porsche factory driver plus Ludwig ran the car outta gas on the back stretch. Now this is the mall. You only get about seven laps on a tank of gas and you’ve got to be careful to get in clouds. Kind of forgot and had to grind. About four miles around the [00:19:00] track on the starter motor to get it back to the pit lane where they could fix it.

At that point, they lost the race lead. Jaguar took over and believe it or not, the Porsches almost came back and caught Jaguar, but they weren’t able to. And the car with Andy Wallace and John Lamers and the Earl of Butte, Johnny Re, a British nobleman, good guy. They hung on. Won the race and then two of the original five Jaguars that were still in the race joined up with the race leaders and came across in that three wide echelon style that always thrills.

Now everybody knows, or everybody likes to say, they know that Le Mansr is a British race on French soil. So after, um, years of domination by the Germans with their Porsches. A lot of the Brits stopped coming, but during the race, as it became more and more clear that Jaguar had a legitimate shot at winning for the first time since 1957.

This is 1988, the ports [00:20:00] at Kle, the ferries. Became jammed as British fans crossed the channel to come to Le Mans so they could say they were there to witness Jaguar’s comeback win at Le Mans. And I remember those laps of honor after the finish. Confetti flying everywhere. Jaguar flags, British Union Jacks singing the national anthem.

I mean, it was this thundering grandstand of people and it was about as emotional as I’ve ever gotten on the air. I was just so impressed with the, uh, national support for the Jaguar victory in 88, and that actually kicked off from, I would say 87 when Porsche won as usual, and then Jaguar won, and then Mercedes won.

With the, uh, C nine, and then somebody else won, and then Mazda won with their 7 87 B four rotor car that made an absolutely eye watering noise. And then years after that, it was a different [00:21:00] brand or a different model car from a different brand every single year. I mean, there was something new every year, which we weren’t used to because we had spent seventies and eighties watching Porsches.

Sweep the table. That’s one moment that will stick with me forever was the year the Toyota Hybrid came around and died at the start of the last lap. That one I’ll always remember. So that was fun going back, knowing there was a a chance we were gonna see something different and new.

So you talked about pit reporting, which gives you an opportunity to talk to the drivers.

You know, they’re fatigued, let’s say they just jumped out of the car. You gotta get that instant report. But the question that always comes up, everybody wants to know who’s the best interview. Some say it’s andretti, others say it’s HaBO, whatever. Is there a best interview and were there some tough interviews and why?

Bob Varsha: Well, that comes naturally, you know, is there a prettiest girl? No. It just depends on your taste. Now you mentioned Mario Andretti, I assume. Yes, Mario is a wonderful interview. [00:22:00] He remains just a darling of the media rooms overseas. People just love to know that Mario’s gonna be there that weekend and every journalist wants an interview with him as far as the worst go.

Well, you went there. I said tough. Oh, I’m sure there is, but I tend to stick with the good guys. One thing that Le Mans taught me right away is that drivers who are from foreign countries. For whom English is not a first language, and drivers who have not been exposed to the pretty prudish American broadcast standards.

When it comes to expressing yourself, you can get some really crazy comments from drivers. I remember one Jamal Delmondo son of the famous actor, Alba Mondo. Was driving a GT car, I think, and there was an OnTrack Contra to, and he got out of the car and I wasn’t doing the interview, but one of my colleagues was this guy got so worked up, [00:23:00] he was dropping F-bombs left, right and center, and I was working in the booth for that race with Alan McNich.

And of course Alan being a first time broadcaster, hadn’t been through this before himself. So I looked over at Alan and he had an expression on his face, something like this, and I just gave him the, the hand signal to calm down, count down, you apologize, you explain. People don’t understand. I mean, I heard Sena didn’t understand that an F-bomb was not appreciated on, on American broadcast.

And the Brits have come around to that as well. So. You have to watch out for that. As far as the toughest interview and full credit to these drivers who may have just gotten out of the car and been through life changing experiences, gosh, who would I pick on? My toughest interview was my first year at Le Mansr.

David Hobbs was not going on air with us. He was driving with Damon Hill. I know. And I knew David. I knew we’re gonna work together and so on, and he had just gotten out of the [00:24:00] car. He was driving a Richard Lloyd Porsche. And, you know, I walked up to him, little hail fellow, well met, how’s it going? And he looked right through me.

It was like he had no idea who I was. And you know, I got a couple of monosyllabic comments out of him and I thought, this is not gonna work. He’s got some explaining to do later on. Does David, but no, I, I can’t think of anybody who gave bad interviews unless they were just afraid of their English. Course.

Remember too, at Le Mansr, there’s an army of journalists there. Everybody I think, is somewhat reconciled to the idea that you’re gonna have to talk because you’re just gonna be waves beating on the shore, people asking you to comment on this or that, the other thing. So I don’t recall a bad experience with anybody in that context.

Speaking a little bit more to your broadcasting style. You talked about the amount of research you do, trying to keep up learning new things, all the new cars that are coming. So how did you approach balancing all that technical information with [00:25:00] storytelling to keep both us hardcore fans engaged, but also casual newcomers that might be turning on Le Mans for the first time?

Bob Varsha: That touches on a subject that I’ve always felt pretty strongly about. Making a broadcast, you wanna throw your net as far as you can, because every viewer is a potentially new viewer. They may know all about the sport, they may know nothing about the sport. So you really have to include those people in your commentary narrative to provide the greatest opportunity for them to be entertained, to be appreciated.

During my early formula one days, we used to go through the qualifying system every Saturday in our broadcast. And I used to get occasional emails from people saying, why do you keep talking about the qualifying format? Every time there’s a qualifying show, we know what it is, just get on with it. And I thought, no, you really don’t.

Because there’s a lot of people out there who may not understand that it’s a three session deal and we drop five cars and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, [00:26:00] blah. So I’ve always tried to uh, one, stay away from very technical topics ’cause I’m not a technician. Stay away from trying to explain what a driver did wrong.

That came up badly for him because I’m not a driver. That’s why our booth at Speed Vision with me, David Hobbs, Steve Matchett, and Sam Posey, it worked because we each knew what our role was. I’m getting us in and outta breaks and setting the scene and all that. David, as the driver takes over when there’s a replay that calls for driver expertise, same thing when we have a dramatic event in the garage.

Steve was a mechanic, he can explain that. And Sam was just the poet laureate. So we each played our role and I think, uh, it really led to the best, most economical in terms of words broadcast in American broadcasting. We don’t talk constantly. We talk a lot. Well listen to Sky TV with the Formula One shows constant words, [00:27:00] words, words, words.

They never stopped to take a breath. I call that the Murray Walker syndrome. Murray worked alone in the booth before he hooked up with James Hunt and would just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and he became famous for his screw ups. There are whole books full of what they call mems, you know, hilarious things like that.

Formula One car is absolutely one of a kind. There’s nothing quite like it except the car behind it, which is identical, that kind of stuff. Unless I am terribly wrong and it appears I am, you know, that’s just the way he would do things. But he would talk constantly and everybody since that I’ve worked with on international broadcasts.

Does that, and I never quite understood why. Because to me, you want the squeal of tires, you want the roar of the engines, you want the sound of motor sports not, uh, filtered through some constant chatter from a guy like me.

And I feel that the broadcasting style that you and your team brought to the table is actually similar to the [00:28:00] way radio IMSA and Radio Le Mansn work, because John Hind Hoff does the same thing.

There’s all these pauses. And you just hear the background sounds of the cars going for a while, and then they kind of regain their steam and peter off and things like that. And so I’ve always appreciated that because like you just said, it’s a lot for the audience to take in, but you’re just this constant waterfall of words all the time.

It makes me wonder as announcers, do you get to decide what the TV coverage should focus on, or are you constantly being reactive to what you see

Bob Varsha: generally speaking? It depends what country you’re in. I did a lot of Formula E stuff with British television and they think announcers are light bulbs.

Unscrew one screw in another one, shut up until we tell you to talk. It was quite different here in America, the producer and director and so on. We’ll sit with the announcers and we agree on what the key themes are coming into the race weekend, which I really appreciated. I was kind of put out when I did my first show overseas.

They don’t want to hear what you think. [00:29:00] So yeah, it’s a very different style of broadcasting that you have to know your audience, know who you’re working with. Well, and the reason

I bring it up is because I feel like one of the most underappreciated classes Yep. At Le Mans every year is LMP two. They just never seem to get any airtime.

Right. And I always wonder. Is that a decision of the folks behind the cameras, or is it the announcers that are like, it’s really not that interesting, we’re just gonna follow the leaders around for the next three hours. Where it would be nice to, you know, switch gears a little bit. Yes. Look at what else is going on in the race.

So do you play a part in influencing what we see on the television

Bob Varsha: in a very casual way? Yeah, we’ll talk and the producers, you know, they’re not dubbing, they’ve done their homework. They know what the key. Elements of this race bring out, whether it’s the points championship or the mechanical reliability of certain cars, it’s a group function.

You talk amongst yourself, you learn what you think is important. And then you talked about being reactive. You absolutely have to do that. The pit [00:30:00] reporters. Play a big role in that because they find out all the information before we do. And sometimes you’ll be just totally surprised by something like one of the first years the, uh, Audi R eight was racing somebody’s car broke gearbox problem, swing it back into the garage.

And David Hobbes’s son guy was being a pit reporter. And so he disappears behind the car into the garage and we’re talking about something else. All of a sudden he says, oh my God, I can’t believe this. And we thought, oh, oh, what terrible thing happened. The Audi guys had built their car in a modular fashion so they could take off the rear body work.

And the gearbox and unplug it and plug it. Not they came. So, you know, we got a camera down there and watched all this happen and somebody put a stopwatch on it in like seven minutes. That car came back out with a new rear end on it, you know, away they went. So you learn a lot just by watching the teams, manufacturers keep their latest innovations under a [00:31:00] cover until they really need it.

And you mentioned the other classes. That’s mainly a factor that all of the big recognizable driver names. And the fastest cars in class are gonna be in prototype and well, what is now GT three Pro? So yeah, they’re just naturally going to attract more attention. They’re gonna have the bigger accidents, the more drama, the fantastic numbers in terms of terminal velocity and all that kind of thing.

So I agree with you. I think LMP too deserves a little more attention and everyone, I mean, if you’re at lab ball, you’re spending money, you’re risking your life, you’re doing something. Huge in your own life, you deserve a little attention, I think. But that’s not always possible when you’re working in the international format that we are.

You know, we can’t go say, anybody, speak enough French to tell the director in there. We want to go see something else on track. Yeah. We just react to the pictures we see.

So for those of us at home, perception is reality. Mm-hmm. That’s why I’m asking this question about how the broadcasters and [00:32:00] how the announcers kind of shape the way we see things.

Right. And one of the biggest things, doesn’t matter the discipline of racing, but especially at Le Mans, there’s always the rivalries. Yeah. Famously, Porsche versus Corvette. Corvette versus Viper, and maybe more realistically Porsche versus Ferrari. Mm-hmm. How much of that is real? Because if you ask the drivers, they’re sort of like, well, eh, maybe sort of, kind of.

Yeah, in the booth, it’s all this energy and this excitement around these rivalries. Are they contrived or are they real

Bob Varsha: to the guys in the booth? This is a war pure and simple. There is, you know, no quarter asked or taken, you know, to the drivers, to the mechanics, to the team personnel. They are professionals.

This is what they do for a living. And that other garage down there may be where you’re working next year. You may get hired, you switch teams. You, you know, you wanna do a good job, which is why the drivers are so friendly out of the car. You know, you don’t want to close off any potential pathway for your career.

I mean, there’s a certain amount of huge pride [00:33:00] in what they do. Corvette racing is a great example. You go there and win nine championships in 12 years or whatever it was. The Corvettes were huge favorites at Le Mansr, a lot of American flags waving, all that sort of thing. But there was a lot of pride in being a part of the Corvette team.

T-shirts everywhere. On and on and on. Yeah. I mean, the rivalries are there, you know, back in the board rooms of Porsche and Audi and, you know, general Motors or whomever that win means a lot. Look what Ford went through before they finally got, you know, the 66 victory and then the, the All American AJ and Dan Gurney win in 67.

That means a lot. The marketers want fresh meat all the time. You know, the drivers know it’s racing, it’s sport, it’s fun, and they do it for nothing, but they don’t want you to spread that around.

You’ve mentioned throughout, there’s a lot of unpredictability, especially on a very long race, like the 24 hours of Le Mans.

You talked about some of the things you did to react [00:34:00] in creative ways, the makeshift green screen and things like that. Then you touched on, especially the downtimes, nighttime has to be really hard. The drivers talk about how hard it is for them because they feel like they’re just driving on the highway.

Cars are spread out. Lots of cars have retired. I don’t wanna say it gets boring, but it, it does kind of get boring. Sure. How do you keep your energy up? How does your team. Are you guys slamming Red Bulls? I mean, how do you keep talking through the night to continue coverage?

Bob Varsha: Well, we each kind of have our own way, our own schedule, our own diet and so on.

I drink a lot of coffee and we, we lean on our poor pit reporters to find something because, uh, as you say, it can get boring. I mean, there are boring races and I’ve always said the hardest race to call is a bad race. A boring race because then your mind starts to wander. You’re thinking of silly things and you start saying silly things, and that’s no fun.

The easiest races to call are the exciting ones because that’s where you know the action [00:35:00] speaks for itself. And you’re calling the Kentucky Derby, you know, here’s who they are and here’s what they’re doing. And there’s much more energy g just naturally in the way you talk about things.

So Bob, with a couple extra minutes here, we’re gonna go to some audience questions and I’m gonna try to interpret this one from David Schmidt.

He wants to know about the gentleman drivers at Le Mans. Le Mans is an anomaly in racing ’cause it’s one of the few races in the world where, I hate to say it, you can pay to play. What’s your take on the whole gentleman driver situation at Le Mans?

Bob Varsha: Well, you know, at Seabring and Daytona, and you know, the long races are by and large, not necessarily all of them are, uh, exactly like that.

You can buy your way into the race naturally. You have to have resources and licenses and all that sort of thing. I think. Berg Ring 24 is the only one that has very specific. You gotta show that you can handle a few laps by yourself before you can get into a [00:36:00] field of 120 cars going around and around. I, I always admired that fact that a race like Le Mansr is a race you could get into.

As I say, a minimum of experience and so on, and I used to think that was a great thing. I’m not so sure anymore, especially given the power and speed of current race cars and the potential to spoil a great experience for race fans all over the world by doing something stupid and getting in the way. And we’ve seen that a lot of times in these enduros, if you like, around the world.

You need some way of assuring yourself that guys are gonna be able to handle themselves at that first Le Mansr I went to do for ESPN, the guy who put me in the chair, Terry Langner was driving in the race. He paid his money and rented a seat. The thing that makes me think twice about my opinion is that these teams, unless you’re a big manufacturer, gm, Porsche, Ferrari, whatever, [00:37:00] the smaller teams that provide the bulk of the field in a race are.

Businesses. They are people earning a living by building and tuning and perfecting race cars and renting seats to hopefully qualified people. There’s that business aspect to it that I think the race would suffer from if it weren’t there.

Well, I’m gonna ask a fan favorite, and based upon what you said earlier, spoke very fondly of the Jaguar team and their memorable win in 88.

If you could have driven a car at Le Mans, is there one in particular you would’ve liked to have gotten behind the wheel of?

Bob Varsha: Oh gosh, I, I mean, there’s so many favorites out there. I would probably go with the 12 centimeter jag, whether it’s a nine or the 12. I just love it. I mean, Jaguar is the true spirit of Le Mans, I think.

Of course now I could drive a dark horse Mustang, you know, something like that. The cars that are coming to Le Mans. Coming to the sports car racing generally are of a quality we’ve never seen before. At least not in my experience going back to 1980. The focus [00:38:00] on efficiency and safety and all of these sorts of things, it just keeps calling me back.

It’s just so much fun to try to describe to people what’s going on out there. Who these people are. Ken Squire, one of my mentors told me many years ago, he said, if people don’t care about what happens to the drivers, you know, if the human element is not there, they’re just gonna switch off. So it’s part of my job as the, uh, as a host or a play about play guy, is to talk about the drivers.

Talk about the history of the brand, talk about where you are and what’s at stake and all those sorts of things. ’cause every racetrack in the world looks the same from curb to curb. And as I said earlier, I’m not gonna try to reverse engineer an accident or something like that. I should have people with me to do that.

There’s a, that element of romance to it.

One more crowd question and they’re gonna test my French here.

Bob Varsha: Okay.

John Quist asks, please describe your experience at [00:39:00] Albe de on Andre. You’re sitting alongside the Molson Straight for lunch. Seems like a great place to experience the speed. Were

Bob Varsha: you there with me, pal?

Yeah. So Bear, there’s more than one of them. You’d literally sit, you can sit by the Trackside wall. A couple of feet away, other side of that, couple of feet beyond you get to the pavement and cars come by. The time I was most impressed with it was we’d had a brief rain shower. So we’re sitting there heating our kds in way or whatever it was, the cars, and you can hear them all the way around the racetrack.

So here comes a car from, you know, let’s say four miles away and you can hear it coming. They get into top gear and top revs and don’t shift, which is a really weird sound. And then they go flashing by and if you stood up, you could hit ’em with your crumpet. They are literally three to four feet away.

It’s noisy and uh, in the rain it’s messy, but it is really fun.

Bob, as we transition into our final segment, we often ask our pro [00:40:00] drivers this on evening with the legend. The question is, what did Le Manss teach you or what did you bring home from the experience? So how does that apply to your career as a broadcaster?

Did Le Mans teach you anything?

Bob Varsha: Oh yeah. Every race teaches me something, whether it’s an exciting one or a boring one or what have you, Le Mansr. Teaches me more about broadcasting in terms of the dynamics of time, how much is available, you know, what else do you have to be thinking about while you’re talking about the action that’s happening in front of you?

Working with fellow commentators in the booth, radios if we have them. But Le Mansr, as much as anything taught me about racing history. The racing business because the business is a huge part of what happens on a racing weekend, as big as Le Ba, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s the biggest and best race in the world.

Do you have any advice for aspiring broadcasters, any words of wisdom for folks that might step up and one day commentate at a race like the 24?

Bob Varsha: You know, as I explained off [00:41:00] the top. I never intended to be a broadcaster. I was a lawyer, fell into the business, met a lot of very helpful people to help me hone my craft, if you will.

Awful lot of learning about racing, about, you know, the mechanicals, about the people who do it, about how they get to do it and so on. So I never trained, I never took a, a film and television course at any university. I’m living proof that you don’t have to do that to embark on a career in broadcasting.

Now times are constantly changing. AI and new electronic gizmos are changing the nature of the business very, very quickly, but the racing is still out there. So what I recommend to young people is not so much sure. You know, take a a university level course that’ll help you with a lot of the history and whatnot.

But get out there and do it right. Even if you have to sweep up in the newspaper hallways or, or submit reports to websites and [00:42:00] the constantly diminishing print media out there, magazines, newspapers. If you hope to be on the air someday, then find a way to get involved at your local racetrack and do whatever you have to do to get to that point.

If I. Clean the grants stands afterwards. I’m serious. I mean, you may have some, what you might consider otherwise demeaning work to do, but that’s how you get started. Chip Robinson, who won a bazillion races in imsa, raced for Bob Tulio, the Jaguar team, Al Holbert, Porsche, even on and on on, he started sweeping out the shops.

You know, any way you can get your foot in the door, do it. Then keep your eyes and ears open, probably your mouth shut and just soak it all in. But you know, the most important thing is to get that first gig to get in the door. And unless I’m mistaken, college homework isn’t gonna help you get there. There may be some way through a university level course, but nothing beats.

On the job training doing it.

So Bob, when you look [00:43:00] back and you reflect on your very long and prestigious career in broadcasting, part of what we do on this show is very similar to what you did in the booth, which is bringing the Le Mans experience to those that may never get the chance. Mm-hmm. To be there themselves.

So when you think about that and you, and you reflect on it, how does that make you feel?

Bob Varsha: I’m proud of my career and what I’ve done. I still have unfinished business. Like any career, I suppose. It’s not always fair, but you then make a decision about whether it’s really what you want to do, and this is all I really want to do, and if people come away from what we’ve talked about tonight and think, I didn’t know it was like that.

But I’ll find a way.

Well, since we’re speaking about advice and you speak so fondly of your many trips to Le Mans, any advice for people going for the first time?

Bob Varsha: And I do recommend that you go to Le Mans. Absolutely. Go. I would hook up with a regarded tour company, and there are lots of them out there that will arrange your tickets, your [00:44:00] seats, if you have any hotels, all that kind of stuff.

Stuff. And if not that go with someone, A person you know who’s been there before, knows the ins and outs. ’cause it’s a pretty crowded, complicated place on the race weekend. And the race is just so diverse. There is so much to see and do at Le Mansr. The fan zone areas have all kinds of crazy stuff you can buy in addition to the usual books and model cars and all that kind of stuff.

The museum that the, uh, a CO has is, uh. Good, good fun. They get great cars in there, so there’s so much to see and do. It really can be a family event. You can go down the road to, uh, wonderful old hotels like Lahar or you can go camp out in some open field. So you can, you can drive around, you see camps, and these are commercial operations.

You’ll see like a hundred. Identical little red tents with a stake in the ground and a number on it like your mailbox at home. People will camp there. You know, you rent [00:45:00] one for the weekend, and so you’ll see a beautiful little red tent with this monster Bentley parked next to it, or a Ferrari parked next to it, or you know you no right away.

That, uh, you’re in a place that’s very special to car guys.

Well, Bob, you said you had some unfinished business, so what’s next? Spoilers, surprises, things that we should be looking out for you on?

Bob Varsha: I’m a freelancer now. I had prostate cancer that took me off the stage, if you will, for a couple of years. And I came back to try to reinvent myself, thinking I was just gonna slide right into where I left.

But that wasn’t happening. And people have short memories by and large. Hey, I’m 74 years old. Not as old as Hobbes, but a lot older than a lot of the people who do the hiring. And nothing’s more frustrating to be than to walk up to a fan or a, or a fellow professional and have ’em say, Hey, I didn’t know you were still alive.

What’s going on? You know, I mean, they’re genuinely happy to see me, but they’re [00:46:00] not thinking of me top of mind. When they want somebody with the, uh, experience and the, uh, the talent, who’s the baggage? You know, I’ve done so many forms of motor sports, so many sports generally over the years that, um, I’m pretty firm in the belief that I can do just about anything that comes up out there.

Preferably bleeding motorsports, but if it doesn’t happen, I could be happy with what I’ve had.

That begs the question, will we see you commentating at Le Mans Classic in the future?

Bob Varsha: Boy, I would love to do that, but again, the international chauvinism kind of pops up. You know, there’s a, a lot of companies and a lot of individuals in Europe who want to do that, and so they do.

Now over here, of course, we have vintage racing programs. They get great cars. It’s always fun to go to, uh, California. To, uh, Monterey or, uh, or any of the HSR events or what have you here, but no, nobody has, uh, dialed me up about the Le Mans historics. That would be fun.

Before [00:47:00] we sign off, I wanna pass the mic to our A-C-O-U-S-A representative David Lowe for some parting

David Lowe: thoughts.

Bob, on behalf of the a CO and endurance racing fans around the world, thank you so much for incredible evening taking your time out to share with us. Very informative. Thank you.

Bob Varsha: Thank you, David. It’s a pleasure.

Well, folks, that brings us to the end of this evening with a legend where we explored the voice behind so many unforgettable moments at the 24 hours of Le Mans.

For decades, Bob CIA’s insight, passion, and storytelling helped bring the magic of Le Mans to living rooms across America guiding fans through the drama of night stints, last minute heartbreaks and historic victories. His commentary not only explained the race, but elevated it, making the spectacle of an endurance racing accessible to all.

So if you’d like to keep up with Bob, you can follow him on Twitter at Bob Varsha for latest insights on racing, or check out his ongoing appearances across motor sports media. With that. We hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more evening with the [00:48:00] legends throughout the season. On behalf of everyone here and those listening at home, thank you Bob for sharing your stories with us.

Thank you.

This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club of the West and the A-C-O-U-S-A from the awe-inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance. The 24 hours of the Le Mans is an automotive spectacle like no other. For over a century the 24 hours Le Mans has urged manufacturers to innovate for the benefit of future motorists, and it’s a celebration of the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.

To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.Le Mansn.org, click on English in the upper right corner and then click on the a CO members tab for club offers. Once you’ve become a member, you can [00:49:00] follow all the action on the Facebook group, A-C-O-U-S-A Members Club, and become part of the Legend with Future Evening with the legend meetups.

This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsport and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.

Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the [00:50:00] episode.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Bob Varsha: The Voice of Motorsport
01:42 Bob Varsha’s Journey to Broadcasting
06:23 First Experiences at Le Mans
11:21 Challenges and Stories from the Pit Lane
17:27 Memorable Moments and Interviews
24:46 Balancing Technical Information and Storytelling
25:22 Broadcasting Styles and Audience Engagement
28:20 Influence of Announcers on TV Coverage
32:03 Rivalries and Realities in Racing
33:49 Challenges of Long Races and Nighttime Coverage
35:19 Gentleman Drivers and Business of Racing
40:50 Advice for Aspiring Broadcasters
42:58 Reflections on a Broadcasting Career
45:15 Final Thoughts and Future Plans

Bonus Content

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Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

Evening With A Legend

We hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more Evening With A Legend throughout this season. Sign up for the next EWAL TODAY!

Evening With A Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to Legends of the famous 24 Hours of Le Mans giving us an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you. By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance to become part of the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.

Unlike sprint races such as IndyCar or Formula One, endurance events demand a different rhythm. For Varsha, the long format was a gift: “You can speak more, you can bring up stories, you can do things. And that’s more interesting to me, because I got into it to tell stories.”

In the media compound in 2018: Me, Greg Creamer, Justin Bell. Andrew Marriott, Leigh Diffey, David Hobbs, Calvin Fish, Brian Till, Jamie Howe Sellers. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha.

Preparation was exhaustive. Varsha filled shelves with books, studied historical nuances, and leaned on the expertise of colleagues like David Hobbs, Calvin Fish, and Brian Till. Together, they balanced technical analysis with narrative, ensuring broadcasts resonated with both hardcore fans and newcomers.

The early years weren’t without hiccups. In 1986, ESPN discovered mid-race that the French world feed shut down overnight. Varsha improvised, sitting in front of a tarp “green screen” while headlights played in the background, filling six hours with stories until coverage resumed. It was a reminder that endurance applied not just to drivers, but to broadcasters too.

Pit box for the new Porsche 963. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha

Over three decades, Varsha witnessed some of the race’s most iconic chapters. He recalls Jaguar’s triumphant 1988 comeback, when British fans flooded ferries to witness the brand’s first win since 1957. The emotional finish saw three Jaguars cross the line together, Union Jacks waving and anthems echoing across the grandstands.

He also remembers the heartbreaks – Toyota’s hybrid faltering on the final lap, or Porsche’s Ludwig running out of fuel and grinding four miles on the starter motor. Each moment underscored Le Mans’ unique blend of triumph and tragedy.

Scrutineering Day in the town center, 2014. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha.

Varsha’s broadcasting philosophy was simple: cast the widest net possible. Every viewer, whether seasoned or new, deserved context and clarity. That meant explaining qualifying formats, avoiding overly technical jargon, and letting the sounds of racing breathe between commentary.

Interviewing Alex Brundle in the media area, 2014. Photo courtesy Bob Varsha

His booth chemistry was legendary. With Hobbs offering driver insight, Steve Matchett dissecting mechanical details, and Sam Posey weaving poetic narratives, the team struck a balance that elevated American motorsport broadcasting. “We don’t talk constantly,” Varsha noted, contrasting their style with the nonstop chatter of some international feeds. For him, silence wasn’t empty – it was the roar of engines speaking for themselves.

The Legacy of a Storyteller

From 1986 through 2016, across ESPN, Speedvision, and Fox Sports, Bob Varsha’s voice became inseparable from Le Mans for American fans. His career, born of happenstance, evolved into a vocation defined by curiosity, preparation, and a love of storytelling.

Le Mans is a race of endurance, but it is also a race of memory. For countless fans, Varsha’s commentary is part of that memory – moments of triumph, heartbreak, and history, carried across the Atlantic by a voice that made them feel like they were standing trackside in France.

ACO USA

To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.lemans.org, Click on English in the upper right corner and then click on the ACO members tab for Club Offers. Once you become a Member you can follow all the action on the Facebook group ACOUSAMembersClub; and become part of the Legend with future Evening With A Legend meet ups.

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Racing Through Crisis: The Winston West Series in the Shadow of the Oil Embargo

History of Motorsports

IMRRC

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February 5, 2026

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Racing Through Crisis: The Winston West Series in the Shadow of the Oil Embargo

When the OPEC oil embargo struck in 1974, it rattled the foundations of American motorsport. Fuel shortages, canceled events, and shuttered tracks left fans and competitors wondering if racing itself might be banned – something not seen since World War II. Yet out of this uncertainty, resilience and reinvention defined the second half of the decade. Between 1975 and 1979, the NASCAR Winston West Series became a vivid stage for transformation, proving that regional racing could thrive even in turbulent times.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

The oil crisis forced shortened race weekends, abbreviated schedules, and permanent closures for many tracks. Environmental concerns, suburban sprawl, and noise debates added pressure. Yet, despite these challenges, regional divisions pressed forward. The Winston West Series, born from the Pacific Coast Late Model Division in the 1950s, carried the banner for West Coast stock car racing, offering fans continuity and drama when national racing seemed uncertain.

Bio

Daniel J. Simone earned his Ph.D. in American History from the University of Florida in 2009. From 2010-2015, Dr. Simone taught World History and Environmental History at Monmouth University. Curator of the NASCAR Hall of Fame in Charlotte, North Carolina, and held that position through 2021. The following year, he was tabbed to assist the New York Historical Society Museum & Library, where he co-processed the Women’s Sports Foundation Collection and developed content for digital exhibition. Dr. Simone is on the editorial board of the Journal of Motorsport Culture & History and serves on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Voting Committee.

Synopsis

This episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsports Series, looks back at a transformative period in American motorsports during the mid-1970s to 1979, guided by Dr. Daniel J. Simone. The episode explores how the OPEC oil embargo challenged and eventually reshaped racing, focusing on the NASCAR Winston West Series. Various significant drivers, such as Ray Elder, Jimmy Insolo, and Herschel McGriff, are highlighted alongside the struggles and triumphs of west coast racing teams. The narrative also covers the impact of the environmental movement on racing and the importance of regional talents in shaping the national scene. The episode concludes with the legacies left by these drivers and the changes in racing dynamics heading into the 1980s.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsports Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer family.

On this episode of the Logbook re returned to the mid 1970s where American Motorsports faced one of its greatest challenges, the OPEC oil embargo. It had shaken the nation fueling fears that racing itself might be banned for the first time since World War II as the 1975 season, dawn competitors, fans, and industry leaders long for normalcy.

But what unfolded was anything but ordinary. By 1979, the sport had been reshaped in ways no one could have predicted new sanctioning structures, shifting venues and fresh pathways to reach audiences. The NASCAR Winston West Series captured this turbulent era with vivid fashion. A six time champion stepped away to tend the family farm.

While a lumberman who began racing in 1945 proved age was no barrier, a [00:01:00] journeyman Californian claimed his first championship at 41, then doubled down with another title. Just two years later, Canadian Stock Car Legends broke through and Riverside International Raceway became the stage for unforgettable drama, all in the fraction of a race.

Guiding us through this remarkable story is Dr. Daniel j Simone with a PhD in American history from the University of Florida. Dr. Simone has taught, curated and chronicled motorsports history at the highest levels. From his tenure as curator of the NASCAR Hall of Fame to his work with the New York Historical Society.

His scholarship and storytelling illuminate how the oil crisis and its aftermath forever altered the trajectory of racing in America. Today he brings us into the heart of an era defined by uncertainty, resilience, and transformation. Thanks again for having me. I spoke about West coast racing last year, and particularly about Ray Elder and the racing farmers and, and some of that ties into my topic for this year, mostly the Winston West Series and its history.

In the second half of the 1970s competitors, spectators, fans in the motorsports industry, from [00:02:00] the highest levels to the grassroots hoped normalcy would return to American Motor Sports at the start of the 1975 season. A year earlier, many feared automobile racing could be banned, as was the case after the American entry into World War II in 1974.

The OPEC oil embargo had a profound influence on sport, travel and recreation throughout the United States, and nearly all varieties of auto racing, American auto racing got through the first half of the season with abbreviated competition. Weekends, shortened races, canceled events, and temporary, or in some instances, permanent track closures.

To be sure the 1974 auto racing season was like no other season before since the oil embargo did force some to reconsider motor sports and its place in the environment, a growing citizen-based environmental consciousness, suburban sprawl, highway construction, noise pollution, and other factors. Put motor sports more on the defensive.

Nationwide, many track owners and operators were permanently placed under a [00:03:00] great amount of strain. The signs were rather obvious and many did not quite know their days were numbered. But from 1975 to 1979, national racing entities as well as smaller regional series and divisions pressed on despite a rough decade for the American economy.

One regional series competing under a national banner was the NASCAR Winston West Series from 1975 through 1979. The division featured robust schedules with annual visits to many of the same facilities, a deep talent pool and memorable races. Going back to its early days in 19 54, 5 years after what is now known as the NASCAR Cup series was inaugurated.

The NASCAR Pacific Coast Late Model Division began competition teams and drivers in regionally and locally sponsored stock cars, competed mostly in California with occasional events in other Western states and British Columbia, Canada. During the 1950s Pacific Coast Division drivers did occasionally Venture East to race in NASCAR Cup, or as it was known then grad national [00:04:00] events beginning in 1959.

It was not uncommon for west coasts to trek all the way east of Florida to take a stab at qualifying for the Daytona 500. However, west Coast Racers did not have to journey across America if they wanted to pit their talents behind the wheel and in the garage against the Cup Series, hoping to spoil the efforts of cup regulars.

Riverside International Raceway, which first hosted races in 1957 became Southern California’s capital of American Auto Sport in the 1960s. Riverside was located about an hour’s drive east of Los Angeles and the then sparsely populated wine growing desert community of Moreno Valley. The track accommodated all forms of motor sports and attracted domestic and foreign competition, even hosting a Formula One race in 1960 and during the 1960s, NASCAR’s Top division visited Riverside twice a year.

There were a couple occasions where the Cup Series raced there three times in the season. The NASCAR Pacific Coast Late Model Division changed names a bunch of times. It became the NASCAR Grand National West Division for the 1970 season. RJ Reynolds Tobacco [00:05:00] company entered a sport in 1971 through its Winston brand, brought money and support to the Cup Series, but also to other divisions.

For a time it was known as the NASCAR Winston Western Grand National Series and eventually in the mid seventies, was referred to by its most famous moniker, the NASCAR Winston West Series. Perhaps no better place to start. A discussion of the 1975 Winston West season is with a brief mention of who was not on the track.

Jack McCoy concluded his driving career at the close of the 1974 Winston West season. The Modesto, California driver claimed two championships, one in 1966 and another in 1973. And is best remembered for being credited with 54 series victories. His indelible impact on the growth and development of the series cannot be quantified, not to be overlooked.

There was a second major series absence in 1975. Dick Bound quit his career behind the wheel after competing in the season to opener at Riverside in January, he won 14 races in the division and was one of the most popular [00:06:00] drivers to hail from the Pacific Northwest in the first decades of the series.

McCoy and Bound left behind a talented group of series regulars and young drivers. A few had aspirations of moving on to the Winston Cub series, but most maintained a focus commitment to excellence at the regional level, ensuring the series would remain vibrant for the second half of the decade. Ray Elder, one driver who hoped to race full-time at the national level, picked up championship number five in 1974, and few were willing to bet against the pride of Tiny Caruthers California and his quest for his sixth title in 1975.

Elder was still in his early thirties. And the racing farmers, his laser focused and loyal team of family and friends were up to the challenge after McCoy and bound hung up their helmets. Elder remained as the only longtime veteran of the series to compete on a full-time basis in 1975 as he sought a full-time ride in the Winston Cup series.

Elder was no stranger to Victory Lane in NASCAR’s Elite division. He defeated all of the cup drivers winning at Riverside in [00:07:00] 1971. And then winning again in the second Riverside race in 1972 and in 1975, elder made it a half a dozen Winston West Championships. Elder’s final title would be one of his finest.

He won five races, including his ninth and final triumph on the dirt at the legendary Ascot Park just outside of Los Angeles. Elder posted 14 top fives, finished on the lead lap 12 times, and was one of four drivers who competed in all 18 points paying content. Elder moved to the top of the points after a fifth place finish at Phoenix Arizona’s Manzanita Speedway in the third race of the season.

On May 10, later that year, the West Series returned to Manzanita for a second date. It was the final time the division competed at the legendary Phoenix facility. Perhaps most famous for its rich history of Wingless spring car racing. Although the Arizona State fairgrounds in Phoenix, which was paged in the early 1960s would absolutely require inclusion in the debate.

There is no more iconic dirt track in the valley, the Sun, and in the Grand Canyon state than Manzanita. And according to one of the [00:08:00] greatest contributors of our understanding and deep knowledge of track histories in both the US and Canada was the late Allen Brown who should be in every racing hall of fame in the United States.

By next year, Manzanita, which originally hosted dog races. Began hosting auto races in 1951, but the development of affordable air conditioning, the interstate highway system, and a growing baby boomer population led to massive growth in many small Sunbelt cities. Beginning in the 1950s, greater Phoenix has become one of the largest metropolitans areas in the United States.

The Manita properties sold for development in 2009. Many of the tracks once on the Winston West calendar throughout the seventies suffered similar, fades in the decades to come and are long gone today. And returning from this racetrack rabbit hole, elder won his 45th career race at Man cta, and it was his final Trump of the 1975 season for Elder.

The path towards championship number six was a little easier than some of the others, primarily because three of the biggest names in Western racing at the time, Hirschel McGriff, Chuck Bound [00:09:00] and Jimmy Anslow raced in scattered events that season. None competing the full season. Herschel McGriff, an age-defying Lumberman from Portland, Oregon began racing in 1945.

In 1950, he teamed up with co-driver Ray Elliot to win the inaugural Mexican road race in a 1950 Oldsmobile. I believe that car was on display when he was inducted into the NASCAR Hall of Fame a couple of years ago. Later that summer in 1950, McGriff Journeyed diagonally across the country to South Carolina to finish ninth at Darlington Raceway in the first Southern 500.

He then went on to win four cup races in 1954 before stepping away from the sport until the mid sixties to raise his family to develop his businesses. Looking back now, we can see that McGriff already approaching 50 in 1975. Was more or less still getting warmed up at an age where most drivers were considering retirement.

At this stage of his career, he set his sights on competing at Le Mons, and in 1976 McGriff and his son traveled to [00:10:00] France and competed in the 24 hours throughout the 1970s. He often raced at Portland Speedway, his home track, where he won five straight Winston West races in between 1971 and 1973.

Beginning in 1980, he committed to full-time Winston West Seasons and McGriff was voted Winston West’s most popular driver for 12 consecutive seasons. He won the series Championship in 1986 and claimed 34 West Series victories. His last one coming in 1989 at the age of 61. McGriff strapped himself into a West Series event in 2018 in Tucson, Arizona at the age of 90, and he was inducted into the NASCAR Hall of Fame a couple of years ago.

McGriff is also the all time winningest racer at Riverside. As Shav Glick, a member of multiple halls of fame will covered motorsports for decades. For the Los Angeles Times reflected shortly after Riverside’s 1988 closure on a cool Saturday in January of 1969, the Perx 100 unveiled a driver who went on to win more road races than [00:11:00] anyone else would ever win There.

Herschel McGriff, almost totally unknown in Southern California. Started 41st in last, but by the sixth lap he was in second and he wound up passing Ron Grable to win. Who is this guy? The assembled media and the track officials asked, well, McGriff scored his 14th and last Riverside victory in the 1985 Pep Boys 300 at the age of 57.

He was 60 when he drove in the 1988 Budweiser 400. The final NASCAR Winston Cup race held at Riverside, where he also served as the events. Grand Marshal McGriff did not race full-time in the series from 1973 through 79. In 75, he competed in four Winston West Series events, but three were joint cup races, two at Riverside and won at Ontario.

He competed at Evergreen Raceway in Washington in his only pure Winston West contest where he finished second behind elder. So that following January 16th at the Winston West Awards banquet in early [00:12:00] 1976, Ray Elder received a $10,000 bonus for claiming the championship at the Winston West Series banquet held at Riverside.

Runner up. Sonny Easley received $6,500 for his efforts finishing second in 1975, his last full-time season on the circuit. He also finished second in 1973 easily, who began racing in 1963. Mounted a respectable career on the West Coast, including eight victories in the circuit before losing his life in a freak accident while practicing at Riverside In 1978, Douglas Grunts, one of his crew members, also perished in the accident.

Chuck Wal finished third overall and picked up $5,000 for his efforts. The Burbank driver only won his only career events that year. But it truly was a night to remember for the racing farmers race crew Chief and brother Richard Elder won the Golden Ranch Award and NASCAR representative Ken Piper honored Fred and Laura Elder with a special appreciation award for their efforts to promote racing on the West Coast for over a decade.

Fred served as car owner and family matriarch. Laura took care of the rest of the family and young grandchildren. It was a [00:13:00] sweet award ceremony, but the window was closing for El duress. The 76 season approached after failing to do so in 1975. Elder hoped he would finally score an opportunity to race full-time with the Winston Cub series at the start of the 1976 season with two children to support in the family farm to maintain a temporary relocation to where the big Winston Cup teams were based anywhere throughout the southeast.

It needed to happen soon, but an opportunity with the sports Premier Division did not materialize worse. Olympia Brewing opted to discontinue their sponsorship commitment, and the racing farmers were back on their own. The Washington based brewery shifted their marketing objectives and began focusing on their own series across Washington, Oregon, and Idaho.

Consequently, with no corporate cash. Elder decided not to compete for a seventh Winston West Championship in 1976 as he warned his fans the previous year unable to land sponsorship and committed to the family farm and family matters. Ray Elder pulled out of the sport for nearly all of 1976 and the racing farmers [00:14:00] seized operations.

Richard Petty would race for his seventh Cup Championship in 1976. Ray Elder would not race for his seventh West title. That 76 season opened as it often did at Riverside with a combined cup in West Race. And as always, a group of regional regulars took a stab at making the race every January and June.

During the 1970s Winston Cup drivers had to muscle their cars up and down and around an unfamiliar road course. Their crews tasked with setting up a car to turn right. Back then, it was the only road course on the schedule. Watkins Glen would not become a series staple until 1986. The Winston Cup Stars had to compete against a group of talented drivers and crews with a home track advantage.

And not surprisingly, the south versus west dynamic was fodder for the California sports writers who ramped up the pre-race hype in the days leading up to the. Benny Parsons who finished third at the previous Riverside Race in June, 1975. Mentioned both Elder and Jimmy Insula as two of the guys to beat in a pre-race interview.

Parsons the 73 cup champion knew he had to finish ahead of the local [00:15:00] ringers if he hoped to produce a good result to start the 1976 Winston Cup season. Well driving for a wood brothers racing. David Pearson earned his first win at Riverside after 13 tries. That same Sunday, the Pittsburgh Steelers defeated the Dallas Cowboys in Super Bowl 10 by a score of 2117 Kele Yarborough finished second in front of nearly 55,000 race fans.

This race would also mark the last time two Winston West regulars would finish in the top five at Riverside, Jimmy, and slow. Starting way back in row 13, drove all the way to a lead lap, podium finish, taking third ins. Lo bested Elder who entered the Riverside race. Hoping to again spoil as he did in 71 and 72.

Elder came from row five and battled to a fourth place result. The first driver won lap down. Elder put himself in position for Cup Series win number three at one time, racing side by side with eventual winner Pearson at one point in the race. Eventually, elder ran out of room and slid off the track going on to muscle to a fourth place result.

A lap down [00:16:00] Betty Parsons, by the way, rounded out the top five Winston West regulars once again took it to nearly all of the cup regulars. But that was just about it because good runs for West and west drivers wanes considerably over the next 10 years. At both Riverside and at Ontario. The way the 1976 season was set up, a lengthy scheduling gap, gave West Coasters plenty of time to prepare for their true season opener and the spring approach.

Both racers and fans realized there would be a first time champion in 1976. Chuck bound only 22 years old, but already a Winston West veteran had the talent, resources, connections, and personality to make a mark on a national series someday. He was Herschel McGriffs son-in-law, grew up around and raced against his dad, dick bound in many events, competing in his first series race at the age of 16 in 1970.

After two strong Winston West full seasons in 72 and 73. Chuck Bound raced a limited number of events in 74 and [00:17:00] 75, however, he consistently ran up front with the leaders posting 35 career top finishes outta 75 races. Dick Bounds Rose Auto wrecking sponsored his son Chuck’s cars through the 1975 season.

However, in 1976 bound would compete in the series. Driving a 1975 Chevy Laguna, prepared by fellow North Westerner and engine specialist Jack D. McCoy. Not to be confused with the champion driver from Modesto. With Gerald Craker serving as car owner Leaks Drywall, a local company operating out of Oregon, his primary sponsor.

With additional sponsorship and assistance extending beyond the family business bound was positioned to become the first driver other than elder or McCoy to win the championship. Since Scotty Kain did. Winning back to back titles. In 1967 and 68, on June 27th, Chuck Bound began his championship run in the Winston West regular season opener at the paved five eighth mile oval at Evergreen Speedway.

It was bounds only series win that year. The 1976 season consisted of 13 [00:18:00] races. Three of which were combined Cup events, two at Riverside in January and in June, and one in Ontario in November. Just like the Winston Cup series commitment, consistency and competing laps were again, the keys to a championship run on the Western circuit as it had been so many times before.

Stan was the only driver to compete in every race, having the funding team support, and time to do so. The 22-year-old driver never finished outside the top five the entire season. He competed every lap, but one when he finished second in the series return to Evergreen that summer. His incredible consistency made for a runaway points battle, something NASCAR and most racing sanctioning bodies have struggled with since the first champions were awarded over a century ago.

Some of course, implementing a playoff system or double points paying races in an attempt to remedy this longstanding issue. But what a difference a few years makes the drivers who won so many of the races in the first half of the 1970s were now gone. They were outta the sport or they weren’t racing in the West Series full time.

Enter [00:19:00] 41-year-old brand new champion in 1977, bill Schmidt. He established himself as a consistent tough series competitor in his 74 debut season, and picked up his first series Victory the following year, coming in the Coca-Cola one 50 at Portland Raceway. In 1976, he returned to Victory Lane, taking the Checkers at the one third mile oval at Anderson Speedway in Shasta, California, which he also owned and operated.

In 1977, schmick picked up. Three wins and 13 top fives in his number 73 Chevy, which featured old Milwaukee sponsorship in some of the races that year. Schmid competed in all the races for the first time. Only two drivers of Schmid and bound competed in all 20 scheduled races including the two joint cup events.

Schmid won the championship with a 111 point March. One of the best drivers to emerge from Northern California. Schmidt remained competitive into his fifties and wound up with four series championships. His 19th and final Winston West series win came in 1992. At the age of 56, perhaps only Herschel McGriff [00:20:00] raced against more future NASCAR Cup series regulars on the West Coast.

As often as Schmidt both often bailed it out on West Coast Bull rings with young drivers who would find their way to full-time rides in the Cup Series many years later, Chad Little. Derek Cope and four time truck series champion Ron Hode Day, Jr. Were some of the drivers that they battled against as though they were starting their careers.

Interesting combination of generations racing during that time because Schmidt also raced against Ernie Irvin, who raced in his first full-time cup season in 1988 and helped put West Coast stock car racers on the national stage for good regionalism. Persisted in American stock car racing, headed into the 1980s.

Southeastern drivers still dominated, but Irvin was one of the drivers who began to change that permanently. The second generation versatile driver from Salinas, California won the 1991 Daytona 500 and wrapped up his injury. Shortened career with 15 wins in NASCAR’s top division on all types of tracks.

Also somewhat overlooked by racing communities east of the [00:21:00] Pacific Coast, both racers and historians. Ernie’s Father Vic, for over two decades was one of the top local pilots on the West coast. Vic Irvin picked up his lone career. Winston West win at one of its most iconic and toughest tracks. Taking the Checkers at Ascot on May 30.

Ron Hornaday is another driver I should have mentioned who also saw success racing the series in the 1960s. Moving into 19 78, 2 big early storylines unfolded before they even took to the racetrack. Chuck Bound was gone and Ray Elder was back down, relocated to Charlotte with aspirations to land a full-time Winston Cup ride.

But opportunities did not come to fruition as he continued his racing career east of the Mississippi in 1979. He finished seventh in the Daytona 500 and later that July was credited with a sixth place in the firecracker 400 at the same track down race in roughly 50 cup events in the seventies and eighties.

And his persistence and talent would pay off. He would race four Seasons in the NASCAR North Series and two [00:22:00] more stints with the NASCAR Bush North Series in 87 and 88, and battle it out with Northeastern Regional ACEs, such as Dave Dion and Robbie Crouch. There was a lot of tough competition during this time as some New Englanders competing in the division versed on moving on to competing in the Winston Cup series.

But though it was a long journey for bound, it was certainly one mission accomplished for the West Coast, more specifically, the Northwest, when he captured the 1990 NASCAR Bush Series Championship with six wins that year to boot Elder, however, was set to run a full season in 78, the first and only of his career without the racing farmers.

He was also driving a red and yellow number 32. Not the iconic 96 and Familiar Blue. The team was a serious championship contender with strong ownership with Dave Hill in sponsorship for Midland Homes and some former racing farmer team members providing support at Las Vegas. Later that summer. Elder won his final West Series race and won two races that year, and despite many good runs, he wrapped up the season in fourth [00:23:00] place Overall.

Not only did he add to his impressive resume, he also showed that he could win without the full racing farmer’s operation. Overall, Sik Championships 47 series wins countless heat victories and two cup wins. He was so good on all different types of tracks, but probably more than anywhere else mastered the dirt surface at Ascot Park.

The best racers adapt to nuances and compositions of different dirt surfaces. They understand racing environments and the best crews also recognize how environmental factors dictate the speed and performance of a racing machine. Ascot was unique as Glick reflected in 1990. The year of its closure.

Several things set. ASCO a park from other tracks. For one, it is 60 yards short of a half mile. So it’s exceptionally fast and being close to the ocean. The sea air rolls in during the evening and helps keep the track from drying out and becoming too slippery at Ascot. Elder perhaps best understood these factors more than any driver of his generation.

No NASCAR Hall of Fame yet for Ray Elder, it’s hard to imagine the well-informed selection [00:24:00] committee ignoring his accomplishments much longer. In 1978, elder was the only driver other than Jimmy SLO to win more than once that year. SLO had the best Winston West Series season of his career that year, originally for Mission Hills.

California INS Slow began racing at roughly the same time as Elder in the early 1960s. However, ins slow hit his stride a little bit later in his career. He made his Winston West debut in 1970, claiming his first victory the following year, coming at the Quarter miler at Craig Road Speedway on the outskirts of Las Vegas in 1972.

He finished third points, winning seven races along the way, including four in a row in a span of six days. Gentleman, Jim, as he was known for his clean driving style, was popular and respected among fans and competitors on the west coast. Insular drove the number of 38 for most of his career. It was nearly as iconic as elders 96 on the West Coast.

But his best, Winston West Seasons, however, came driving the number one car for Jerry Craker, who was one of the top owners of the decade. [00:25:00] He was the same car owner that Chuck Bound had great success with before he relocated to the East Coast in 78 in slow one nine of 22 races. The 1973 West Season finale took place on Thanksgiving weekend and INow again proved he could hang with and beat some of the best funded and seasoned Winston Cup drivers After finishing behind the King who traveled out to Arizona to race.

In the event, hoping to spoil the show, which he did, he claimed the pole position and won the Arizona Napa two 50 ins. Lo was second, and then there were a couple more cup drivers who came out west with their season having been completed. Bobby Allison finished second Yil bonnet took third. The race was held the week following the conclusion of the 78 cup season and proved to be a much needed confidence boost.

To wrap up Richard Petty’s season, petty Enterprises struggled to get the Dodge Magnum up to speed during most of the year, and the king went windless in 1978 for the first time ever, and also finished sixth and points. It was the worst he had finished in his standings, not including his abbreviated season in 1965.

[00:26:00] Since placing eighth in the points in 1962. It’s a little foreshadowing here as we move into the final year of my, of my study, of my presentation, 1979, we can get into all, everything that took place in February at the Daytona 500, the Great American race. We can never assume that everybody in the audience knows some of the commonly known racing facts that we talk about, but I think goes out.

Say that most of us know that the 79 Daytona 500, the fight between Donnie, Bobby, and Kale. Was a pretty big deal, and it snowed that weekend and people were stuck inside and they had nothing else to watch on television. Football season had ended, and you cannot argue against how much of a benchmark event that was for stock car racing, particularly for nascar, but it was also one of the most important seasons for NASCAR as well.

But NASCAR’s aside for a moment, 1979 was tough for many Americans marked by a struggling economy and yet another gas crisis. 79 was also a benchmark year for racing, and many people in this room over the years discussed some of the [00:27:00] developments from 1979 in previous presentations. The cart USAC split being perhaps the most memorable and significant, and that it permanently altered the trajectory of American Open Wheel Championship racing.

But there were a lot of different things that took place in 79 that really directed racing’s direction headed into a new decade. What about the Winston West Series? A few up and comers began making noise in the series. The season featured more drivers than usual, competing in the entire schedule, and an exciting points battle unfolded.

The most promising newcomer was Tim Williamson from Seaside, California, which is not too far from Monterey. Williamson began competing in go-karts as a high schooler before making the jump to race cars in 1974. He spent a few seasons developing his skills at Merced and Watsonville, and in 1978 he won his first Winston West race in his very first attempt leading 99 of a hundred laps in a 1976 Chevy at Stockton, 99 Speedway.

In the fifth event on the series calendar, he competed in five races in 1978 and also took pole position at the [00:28:00] Sears Point Road course winding up six. He was only 22 at the time. Williams, I got off to a hot start at the outset of the 1979 racing season in January. He won the 300 kilometer NASCAR Grand American Race at Riverside ahead of Bobby Allison and Herschel McGriff.

He finished ninth at the season opening NASCAR Cup series event at Riverside in his old mobile. And then he won again in June when the Grand American Division returned to Riverside, the end of the decade Also saw the emergence of one of the greatest Canadian stock car racers of all time racing. Roy, the Stock Car Boy Smith won his first career race in 1979.

He began competing in the series in the seventies and began a full-time racer in the eighties. Claiming back to back to back championships from 19 83 82, the first driver to three-peat since Elder did it, Smith won another in 1988. He finished 10th in the Stans in 1979. Having competed in just over half of the series schedule that year, Sharon Bishop became the first woman to run full-time in the series.

The Washington based driver was somewhat of the Janet Guthrie of the West Series. Who raced from [00:29:00] 1975 through 1980 in NASCAR competition, paving the way for regional racers such as Bishop with her husband, serving as crew. Chief Bishop raced in three seasons, never competing a full schedule, but regularly mixing it up with the best drivers in the series and putting together some good runs along the way and.

In 1979, Bishop wound up ninth overall in the Winston West standings. The 79 season was tight all the way to the finish, much closer than the previous season. Five drivers competed in all 16 events and that same content finished in the top five, but only separated by 105 points. Williamson maintained the points lead throughout most of the fall and a season worth of racing came down to the final event.

Schmidt and Williamson led the championship battle into the season finale in the Napa, Arizona two 50. At Phoenix, though Jimmy Anslow and Richard White were also still mathematically in the mix. Schmid finished 11th, five laps down while Williamson took fourth one lap down. Schmidt earned that finish after crashing in an oil spill on the track left behind.

[00:30:00] After Jimmy Insula blew his engine on the second lap. Schmid crashed hard into the wall and returned to the race. He nursed his car around the one mile flat oval, and every lap he completed and every car he passed was critical. At the end of the 156 lap race, only five points separated. Schmidt, the championship veteran, and Williamson, the emerging superstar.

Williamson had an average finish of 7.8. Schmitz was 9.1. Williamson had one victory. Schmid had four. Schmidt had nine top fives. Williamson had eight. But Schmidt had 10 top tens to Williamson’s 13 when Waltrip was getting better and better and making a lot of noise. It was just a matter of time before he was gonna win a Cup championship and there was a real good chance it was gonna come in 79.

’cause at the time it was the closest championship chase in history. It was a season long neck to neck battle between Petty and Darryl Waltrip. And the championship would be decided at the final race. At the Indianapolis of the West, the 2.5 mile oval at Ontario. Petty finished fifth on the lead lap while DW came home.

Eighth one lap down. [00:31:00] Both received five crucial bonus points for leading a lap. I missed that old NASCAR point system. It was finishing with one through 10. I think you received five points and it was down to four points, then down to three points. I think that ended right about when Winston. Got outta the sport and Nextel came in and, and the playoff system was put in, but I still miss that.

It rewarded consistency. That old system by the numbers. Petty won five races. Waltrip claimed seven victories. The King’s average finish was 6.4. Waltrip was 7.0. Petty had 23 top fives. DW had 19, petty had 27 top tens. Waltrip had 22. Petty won a single poll. Waltrip was credited with five. But it’s the littlest of little things that really were part of the title of my presentation comes from.

Yes, in many instances, luck factors into a season just as hard work, hard driving, brilliant strategy and precise pit work factors into championships just as often down to individual races. Then there are those moments that are little known at the time to have massive implications down the road. A lot of you, or some of you have probably heard this story before.

It shows [00:32:00] how sometimes statistics and numbers are only part of the equation, whereas impact is sometimes unquantifiable reenter Jimmy and slo. By the time the NASCAR Cup series returned to Riverside for its second date in June, 1979, INS had clearly made his mark with the Cup Series drivers. He had already posted eight top tens, four of which were top fives in cup events from 73 through 78.

Seeing success at Riverside in Ontario too. So he was good on the road course and he was able to run to run fast at Ontario. He was also on his way to another excellent Winston West season. Although he didn’t repeat his champion, he was locked up in the points battle all season long, ultimately placing third in the championship.

He won two races, won in Sears Point. Another one became Washington and Ins slow, started the June Riverside. Then on the front row after qualifying second. He set the track record in 1978 in the 1977 Camaro for a Grand American stock car race with a lap of one 17.585. So it was no surprise he would qualify outside the front row.

By the way, next to rookie Dale [00:33:00] Earnhardt for the 1979 Summer Cup race at Riverside. In fact, the 79 cup season featured the emergence of Earnhardt. He won his first race that year and took rookie of the year honors. In the final race of 1978, insular started the Ontario race for Earnhardt. This allowed the young contender to hold onto his rookie status for the 1979 season.

As per NASCAR rules, insular earned the seven place finish. Earnhardt came home with insular, was running in the top five at Riverside until blowing his engine on lap 45. His day came to an early end. He cooled off and changed into his street clothes. The race took place on a hotter than normal day, and the drivers still competing in the race.

Had to contest a difficult racetrack under exceptionally uncomfortable weather conditions. Meanwhile, Richard Petty, who is as tough as they come, was struggling behind the wheel of his famous 43 to make matters worse for Petty. He was already not feeling well on race day, and he was wrestling with mechanical issues with his Dodge crew, chief Dale Inman and Engine Builder.

Maurice Petty knew Richard would need to [00:34:00] vacate the car at some point. And there’s a great account of this story and I, I just wanted to give a shout out by former Reer Rick Crow, who did a podcast with Jimmy Slo. I mean, you can find it on YouTube. It’s a 90 minute discussion with INS slow. It’s entertaining and it’s insightful, and Jimmy really does a great job talking about some of the other side stories involved with that race at Riverside.

Maury filled in for the king. He was asked to drive in relief for Petty with 20 laps left in the event. The 43 rejoined the race in fourth place with insular. Now behind the wheel, he passed kale and finished third NASCAR as it always had awards. The points in finishing position to the driver that takes the opening green flag and that car’s number.

There have been some notable relief drivers taking the checkered first and not officially credited with a victory. NASCAR is not alone. Ray Harun had a relief driver in the first Indy 500, but few remember his relief driver, Cyrus Paki. As Mike Hembry, longtime Motorsport journalist pointed out a few years ago, a rear view mirror of that [00:35:00] 1979 season, which showed numerous places in which the tide ebbed and flowed, but insulars, smooth and steady finish kept petty in the top five with a few minor slipups.

The king may not have had seven championships, and Dale Edmond may not have claimed eight career championships as a crew chief. He had seven with Patty and one came later as crew chief for Terry Leni in 1984. And that’s where my disrupting history reference kind of comes in the most for this presentation.

Sometimes it’s the smallest mid-season matter of a few laps that can have a great effect on a championship and on legacies. Nearly all Winston West drivers remained regional racing stars. And heading into the 1980s, Westerners continued making their biggest impact on the Cup Series as owners, innovators, crew chiefs, administrators, and mechanics.

But just like in baseball’s early days, there were stars who never made it east. It wasn’t that long ago when the furthest west that Major League baseball extended was Chicago and St. Louis. In the 1970s, national corporations were mostly [00:36:00] disinterested in signing Western talent to their sports marketing platforms.

The few mid to large-sized businesses in the Winston West Series were regionally focused companies with a limited national outreach. But it’s still hard to not wonder what if from time to time in 1980 the West Coast lost its rising young star. Tim Williamson died in the crash while qualifying for a Grand American Series event at Riverside.

A day before his 24th birthday. Williamson had the talent funding crew and support, but we’ll never know. Ken Clap, founder of the West Coast Stock Car Racing Hall of Fame and a longtime NASCAR West Coast executive for decades. Mentions in his autobiography that Williamson likely had a cup ride for the 1980 Daytona 500 with car owner JD Stacey, and K Clap put it very, very simply.

He believed, quote. Williamson could go all the way. Still as the Winston West Series enjoyed sustained commitment from nascar. It remained a regional, minor league series with a driver talent pool capable of making the jump. If the major leagues came calling. Finding a job is a job. [00:37:00] Therefore, the only route to a cup ride at this time in the sports history meant a driver was willing to move East.

And commit to a full-time search, lacking the necessary resources and commitment needed for this level of outreach. West Coast drivers and their efforts to garner sponsorship and interest from established cup teams remained mostly fruitless throughout the 1970s. Ray Elder with a family and farm to take care of, not take that chance.

Chuck Bound, who was much younger, did relocate East, and although he enjoyed local and regional success in the 1990 Bush Series Championship, the full-time ride remained elusive until the age of 40. In 1994, he linked up with car owner Bobby Allison. And Jimmy Fenning as his crew chief. Unfortunately, that season and his career was cut short by a horrible crash.

Regionalism persisted in American stock racing, and getting into the 1980s, Southeastern drivers still dominated. Eventually West Coast drivers found national success as many of the tracks they competed on, disappeared, replaced by strip malls, neighborhoods. And rarely with open park space in the second half of the 1970s, auto racing forever became a much [00:38:00] larger component of debates over place and space.

Although the Federal Noise Abatement Act of 1972 granted auto racing exemption from noise statutes and motorsports survived the 73 and 74 OPEC oil embargo. Nearly every week from 1975 through 1979, national Speed Sport News and illustrated Speedway News included at least one article updating the status of a battle between a racetrack operator and his or her neighbors forced to address civilian noise complaints.

Promoters attended workshops to gather tips regarding noise abatement and to develop public friendly policies. Basically, the survival of a racetrack depended on an owner’s willingness to cooperate with citizens and government officials, not drivers and fans. Regardless of a track operator’s vain attempt to silence cars and work with surrounding community sprawl and a growing demand for quiet, it still killed countless speedways.

However, states and communities enacted their own ordinances. Which led to curfews and muffler equipped race cars, and that’s why I’m closing with this photo of elder in 1978. I love the, he’s got [00:39:00] the, the stash going, which is outstanding opposing next to his new ride, the Midland ride from 78. The caption isn’t about going for his six championship and having 43 career wins at the time and, and all of his success on the track.

It’s about the muffler and that just kind of shows that, you know, racing was, I mean, part of a bigger. Environmental conversation after the OPEC Oil embargo. Nearly all of the racetracks were Jack McCoy won two Winston West Championships and Chuck Baum, Jimmy Anslow and Herschel McGriff won. Their series Championships are long gone.

It was clearly a back in the good old days era for motor sports on the West coast. But now looking back 50 years since Ray Elder’s sixth to the final championship in 1975, we can see that changes were underway, particularly in the business of racing, the politics of racing and criticism of autosport.

With an increasing awareness of the place of motorsport within the environment. The racing green initiatives we see today are rooted in the American environmental movement during the 1970s. Thanks everyone.[00:40:00]

Thanks, Dan.

This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports spanning continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The Center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of race drivers race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls, and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. To learn more about the center, visit www.racing archives.org.

This [00:41:00] episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized wheeled land transportation.

Through the modern age and into the future. For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org. We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports.

And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org. [00:42:00] We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, mini SOS and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

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Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 NASCAR Winston West Series: A Turbulent Era
01:55 The 1975 Racing Season: Challenges and Changes
03:31 NASCAR Pacific Coast Late Model Division: Early Days
04:18 Riverside International Raceway: A Hub of Motorsports
04:50 The Evolution of NASCAR Winston West Series
05:26 Key Drivers and Their Legacies
06:19 Ray Elder: A Racing Legend
09:05 Herschel McGriff: The Age-Defying Lumberman
13:03 The 1976 Season: New Challenges and Opportunities
16:32 The Rise of New Champions
26:02 The 1979 Season: A Benchmark Year
35:32 The Legacy of the Winston West Series
39:57 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

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The 1975 season opened with notable absences. Jack McCoy, a two-time champion with 54 victories, stepped away. Dick Bown, a fan favorite from the Pacific Northwest, also retired. Their departures left Ray Elder – the pride of Caruthers, California – as the veteran standard-bearer. Elder seized his sixth championship that year, cementing his legacy with victories on dirt at Ascot Park and consistency across 18 races.

Meanwhile, Hershel McGriff, the lumberman who began racing in 1945, defied age and expectations. Though he raced part-time, his performances at Riverside and Evergreen reminded fans that passion could outlast decades. McGriff’s career stretched astonishingly into the 1980s and beyond, culminating in a Winston West title in 1986 and a Hall of Fame induction.

By 1976, the series saw generational change. Chuck Bown, just 22, captured his first championship with remarkable consistency, never finishing outside the top five. His journey eastward eventually led to a Busch Series title in 1990, proving that West Coast talent could succeed nationally.

Bill Schmitt followed, claiming his first championship in 1977 at age 41. Known for his grit and longevity, Schmitt would go on to win four titles, racing well into his fifties. His battles against future Cup stars like Chad Little, Derek Cope, and Ernie Irvan showcased the series as a proving ground for national contenders.

No venue embodied the Winston West spirit more than Riverside International Raceway. Hosting Cup and West events alike, Riverside became the crucible where local heroes challenged national champions. Elder’s victories over Cup regulars in 1971 and 1972, and McGriff’s dominance on its road course, underscored the West’s competitive fire. Even as Riverside closed in 1988, its legacy as a battleground for regional pride endured.

By 1978 and 1979, the series welcomed new names like Jimmy Insolo and Tim Williamson. Insolo, nicknamed “Gentleman Jim,” delivered his best season in 1978, while Williamson’s breakout in 1979 hinted at a new generation ready to carry the torch. These years coincided with broader upheavals in motorsport – the CART/USAC split, another gas crisis, and the nationally televised 1979 Daytona 500 that catapulted NASCAR into mainstream culture.

The Winston West Series of the late 1970s was more than a regional competition; it was a testament to motorsport’s ability to adapt. Amid economic strain and cultural shifts, drivers, crews, and fans kept the spirit alive. Their stories – of farmers turned champions, lumbermen defying age, and journeymen seizing opportunity – reflect the resilience of racing itself.

Today, as historians and enthusiasts revisit this era, the Winston West Series stands as proof that even in the shadow of crisis, motorsport found ways to endure, evolve, and inspire.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

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Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:

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Mr. Excitement: Jimmy Spencer’s Journey from Dirt to NASCAR Glory

Mountain View

Daniel S

-

February 3, 2026

0

Mr. Excitement: Jimmy Spencer’s Journey from Dirt to NASCAR Glory

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing has always been a place where history meets horsepower, but on this episode of The Racers Roundtable, the spotlight shone brightly on one of the sport’s most colorful personalities: Jimmy Spencer. Known to fans as “Mr. Excitement,” Spencer’s career spanned grassroots dirt tracks, NASCAR’s top divisions, and even a stint as a media personality. His stories, told with humor and candor, reminded everyone why racing is as much about people as it is about machines.

Spencer’s path began at Port Royal Speedway in 1976, where he captured his first late model win. Though his heart was set on sprint cars, a fateful night at Selinsgrove – and a beer bottle thrown at his girlfriend- convinced him to leave dirt racing behind. “You’ll never see me in a dirt car again,” he vowed, pivoting toward asphalt and eventually NASCAR’s national stage.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

What defined Spencer’s career wasn’t just victories – it was relationships. He spoke warmly of legends like AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti, and Dale Earnhardt, weaving tales of camaraderie and mischief. From corn roasts at his family’s junkyard track (the infamous “International Race of Shitheads”) to Earnhardt’s quiet acts of generosity, Spencer painted a vivid picture of racing’s human side. “Nobody knew Earnhardt like he really was,” Spencer recalled. “He was a hell of a race car driver, but he was special—if you needed something, he’d help you.”

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00:00 Please welcome… Jimmy Spencer
00:01:28 Jimmy Spencer’s Early Racing Career
00:03:26 Transition to Asphalt Racing
00:04:45 Friendships and Rivalries in Racing
00:09:27 Racing with Legends: Dale Earnhardt & Buddy Baker
00:10:13 The Move to NASCAR’s Top Divisions
00:11:34 The Birth of ‘Mr. Excitement’
00:30:58 Racing for Bobby Allison
00:36:36 Pit Stop Troubles and Phoenix Race
00:37:59 Racing for the Championship
00:42:29 Dale Earnhardt’s Determination
00:50:34 NASCAR Politics and History
00:58:41 Conflicts with Kurt Busch
01:13:57 Memorable TV Moments & Victory Lane Stories
01:17:15 Racing Strategies and Techniques
01:26:35 Cheating in NASCAR
01:38:38 Family and Racing Legacy
01:51:35 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Racers Roundtable, a podcast sponsored by the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing where history meets horsepower and legends live on each episode brings together voices from across the motor sports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans as they share stories, insights, and behind the scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys.

Whether you’re a diehard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open wheel icons. The racers round table is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it. Strap in tight because it’s time to talk. Racing history, one lap at a time.

Alison Kreitzer: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. We’re gonna get started. My name is Allison Kreitzer and I’m the executive director here at the museum. We’re so thrilled to have Jimmy Spencer here with us today. I know we’re gonna have a very exciting round table. Thank you again for coming.

If you wanna know more about our events, you can [00:01:00] always check us out on the website emr.org, and I’m so thrilled to have Dave Hare here today to be our mc. So I’ll turn it over to him. Please give Dave and Jimmy a big round of applause.

Dave Hare: Thank you, Allison, and we certainly appreciate the fine work. Allison is our executive director and her staff are doing here at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, and once again, it is primarily a staff of volunteers that give their time and efforts in heart to make this facility what it is.

Today’s guest won his first late model race at Port Royal Speedway in 1976. He’s a multi-time NASCAR modified champion. Spent two decades competing in NASCAR’s top divisions where he has won of 41 drivers to win a race in Cup Xfinity and Truck series competition. He would eventually forge a career as a NASCAR media darling.

And of course, he is the founder of the Burwick School of Etiquette, which rose to prominence following the enrollment of Mr. Kurt Bush. Please welcome [00:02:00] to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, the pride of Burwick, Pennsylvania. Mr. Excitement, Jimmy Spencer,

Jimmy Spencer: thank you. It is working. Thanks everybody.

Dave Hare: Mr. Paxton, I see you pulling with the microphone over there. Is there, is there there something? Oh no, don’t

Jimmy Spencer: give him a mic.

Dave Hare: I’m sorry, but we’re there.

Jimmy Spencer: He knows too much stuff.

Lynn Paxton: Spencer. Spencer just shut up a little bit. Once they heard Spencer was coming, we’ve got a lot of people that he competed with.

Big Slim was back here. The renter. Family’s back here. I’m sorry, Butch can’t be with us. I invited Charlie Wman, but he said, this building’s not big enough for a Spencer and a Wman, so you take it from there.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, growing up I wanted to run sprint cars and I, and I loved Bobby Allen and Lynn Paxton and I, I would watch those guys race and then Bob weer with the sprint and I wanted to race a sprint car.

I told Paxton, and one night I was at Seals Grove, first year of dirt racing and Paxton challenged me. I got in the sprint car down there his, that ended [00:03:00] my career in dirt racing. True story. He won at Port Royal and I won a Port Royal. I passed Jim Nave on the last corner of the last lap. Never touched him.

And Jim Nave and his wife were fantastic people from near Bedford. Somebody threw a beer bottle. A lot of people threw stuff that night and they hit my wife, my girlfriend in the head, and I said, listen, you son of a bitches, you’ll never see me in a dirt car again. And I never got back in a dirt car. I said that was it because my dad had a reputation, but my dad won lots and lots of races and I wanted to race sprint cars, and I decided I was gonna go asphalt racing.

That’s that set my career in that way, but I definitely wanted to go Indy car racing. I know I wasn’t as big at the time, and I met AJ Foot, became friends with him, Marianne Andretti. And fortunately enough in my career, I even became bigger friends with them as we became cup drivers. And boy am I

Lynn Paxton: glad you went nascar.

Jimmy Spencer: We had a lot of good friends. Old Hogan used to bust his butt all the time. Hogan [00:04:00] Fogarty, he’s a prankster. Just so you guys know that Paxton is a piece of work. Uh, love, I love Lynn. I got with Schrader and oh man, we talk about Paxton all the time and I, I gotta tell you something guys. First time here won’t be my last.

Absolutely incredible what you guys have done here. The motors, the freaking history. Stevie Smith. I go down the list. Slim double best right up. There he is. That’s the car I tried to pass, slim on the outside at Lincoln. I got up on the top and I said I got enough room. I was a rookie first year and bam, I hit the wall.

My brother said, damn slim, put you in the wall. He says, no he didn’t. I said, he gave me enough room. I was dumb enough to run into the wall, but I was telling slim the story. Slim’s good to see at renters. Oh Jesus, my. I gotta tell you a quick story about Butch. Me and Butch, we were racing at Clearfield Sunday evening race.

It was dark and I can’t recall the car, but there was a pretty bad wreck. And Butch and I running together, we got involved in it. The motor hit roof of my car [00:05:00] and butch caught the rear end and the whole freaking car busted the apart. And me and Butch are there and we’re looking and we said, Butch, I think I killed the son of a bitch.

And that was Butch. Finally, he got out of the rest of his car. You remember Michael Waltrip’s incident at Bristol? I, it was blocky Watt’s car. It was a convertible, but it was incredible. You meet people in your lifetime, Paxton’s, one of ’em, Barry Klein a lot more calmer. Uh, but Butch is a guy you never forgot.

And I was telling his wife, I still think the world of Butch and his whole family. So it means a lot to be invited here and see the old people,

see all these beautiful faces.

Dave Hare: Oh, nice recovery, nice recovery. See what he learned when he did television. He’s so polished now.

Jimmy Spencer: Race, religion, and politics.

Dave Hare: Never. After this is done, I want you to tell me about Barry Klein dance when he was not calm, because I’ve never known that part. So you and we can talk later.

Jimmy Spencer: No, I, I [00:06:00] don’t know about Barry taught me a lot. Okay. First time with Barry Klein dance. My dad was winning lots of races and he saw the boys coming up, my brother, ed and me. I raced, go-karts. Dad said, I think I’m selling my car. So we, he sold the car about July or August. Like, what the hell did he do that for?

Well, we didn’t know at the time, but he didn’t want us racing. We’re bored as heck. We don’t know what we’re gonna do on a Friday or Saturday night. So we see a car somewhere near Clearfield for sale for 3,500 bucks or something like that. So it says, I wanna race dad. Dad says, well, go ahead. So we went and got it, brought it home.

Uh, I can’t show you because his first night at Seals Grove, his legs were shaking so bad and my dad said, eh, and you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m okay. Well, he proceeded to go out and finish dead last. He said, this car’s a piece of crap. Dad says, all right, well, we’ll work on it and we’ll see what we got. So the next week we go to the racetrack.

He says, dad, you need to get in and see if it’s any good. He goes out, what does he do? Starts in the rear, wins the race. I said,

Music: yes.

Jimmy Spencer: [00:07:00] There was three races to go in the season. The guy wanted to buy the car so that my dad sells him the car. My dad says, good, we’re done racing. That’s the first time I met Barry.

Barry Klein dance has a car. Uh, I’ll never forget that was my first ever race car 64 Chevelle. My dad raced it, won the Chuck Championship, Williams Grove Seals Grove, both the oh man. And that’s who became friends with Barry. And when I walked in his shop, he had a old pipe. Calm, never spoke a whole lot, but boy, he could build a damn engine.

And he could do anything. And my dad and him won lots of races together. So that’s my first time meeting Barry. And then I had the opportunity, Barry worked for me and my Bush team. He took care of Dick Trickles motors and stuff like that. Pretty long time relationship. Barry

Dave Hare: doesn’t talk about himself that much.

Jimmy Spencer: That’s Barry. Yeah.

Dave Hare: Well Jimmy got here at nine and the story started at 9 0 1 and they have not stopped. And there’s plenty yet to be told. So I’m not gonna get in the way of that. But I did wanna just bring something up real quickly, and I know we’re out of alignment here chronologically, but my buddy Paul Shuck is here and he reminded me [00:08:00] that he said it was this weekend, wasn’t sure what year it was, but on this weekend you would want a Bush race in Vegas.

Well,

Jimmy Spencer: it wouldn’t have been this weekend. No, not Vegas. That was the spring race because I, I went there the year earlier. Okay. I went there the year earlier in spring.

Music: Yep.

Jimmy Spencer: Was leading the race and the motor blow up, pissed me off. Went back the second time. This is on Friday ’cause I met Ernest Borg nine.

That day, Ernest Boite come in and he says, I love the looks of your race car. And I loved Ernest Boite and I didn’t ever seen the movie The Theon Adventure, and I loved Ernest Boite on McHale’s Navy. I mean, that was just, anyway, been very fortunate to meet a lot of people and he came that Saturday morning, he said, look what I found heads up.

I said, well tape it to the dash, said you’re gonna win today. We won 92 grand, we won. So that was pretty special and that was, uh, one of my biggest paydays ever. And, uh, good memories

Dave Hare: you talked about, well, your dad was such an influence in your life. He was a force.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, I tell Barry, my dad raised seven kids and my mom never went to the [00:09:00] races.

Now she did go to the races with me when I was got into the Cup series at Nationwide series, Bush series at the time. But, uh, mom would sit home when dad was racing. She was sitting at rocking chair, rocking man. We’d come home from Ceiling Grove wherever we were at. She bobbled the head count. The heads said, okay, go to bed.

Now, that was mom. God bless her, but dad, he had a temper and attacks him. He said, if you pushed him, he gonna push you back twice as hard. That’s the way he was. And me and Earnhardt used to talk a lot about my dad because he loved my dad. I’ve became really good friends with Dale Earnhardt. Every week he would come by the Hollerer and, Hey, pop, how you doing?

He, he, he told me, he says Ralph, his dad, Ralph. He says, every time I talked to your dad, he reminds me of my dad. He said, wish my dad was still here like yours. And he billed the Taj Mahal and the whole nine yards. And he comes to the hauler. He goes, Spence. He goes, Jimmy, is your dad here? He says, no, he’s coming in tomorrow.

It was a Charlotte weekend. He says, okay, next day, here comes Earnhart Pop. I want you to come to my shop Monday after the race. So we did. And I go over there with dad. [00:10:00] Earnhart pushes me away. He says, get hell away. He said, I’m gonna show your dad the shop. So Earnhart showed us the shop, and I’ll never forget as long as I live, but.

Yeah, we are all off track.

Dave Hare: Oh no, there’s nothing off track either. And

Jimmy Spencer: uh,

Dave Hare: just run.

Jimmy Spencer: I got my first shot with Buddy Baker and back when we were racing, my dad never really liked to race on Sundays. ’cause of my mom would take all of us to church and then we’d get our candy and all that stuff and come home, we’d eat.

And dad, he was tough. But we built a race track. It was called iosh, international Race of Shitheads. And my dad built the racetrack down at the junkyard. We had a junkyard, the racetrack is still there. My dad invited Buddy Baker and Earnhardt and them all. Oh my God. People would pay big money for the tape if I could find it.

So we were racing that night, big corn roast and the wind got out. So we had to call the state troopers and block all the people from coming. We were racing there. And Earnhardt has. Broke. We’ve done almost run outta cars. And Buddy Baker’s still out there running to me and earn, earn, says, [00:11:00] Spencer, I need a car.

I need a car. So I said, well jump in. He, hey, he jumped in. He jumped in the other side and pushed me over. So he’s driving the car around because he had busted his ball joint. And I says, baker, I said, put him in the damn soupy hole. Over in the third turn, we get a hold of Baker and he push that son of a bitch, run our keys, pushing him.

A baker’s going, whoa. You have to know buddy. He, he, even my first cup run, I was driving for Buddy at the time, and buddy’s out there in the mud hole and he can’t get out. He opens the door. Holy cow. Long story short here. We’re up there having a corn roast and everybody’s eating it. Buddy could always tell a story and buddy always would say, oh God damn.

Oh God damn. But anyway, he says all at once, he says, I know I’m stuck in the soupy hole down there in the mud hole. And he says, I see Godzilla coming. My brother had a big cat. It was dark, it was nine o’clock at nine 30 at night. Two big eyes on it, you know, two lights. And he come. He says, buddy, I’ll get you out of there.

And he put buddy up. Buddy would tell that story to everybody, but Earnhart was there. We got pictures of [00:12:00] him hugging. My mom and dad put his head next to my daddy, his head. It’s illegal to have this much fun. He, he came back the following year and then we had to stop it ’cause it got outta control ’cause of the people and stuff.

But, but six months later he, my dad, he says, Hey, let’s go over the farm. I’m gonna show you something. He said, I wanna build a track like you got. And my dad says, let me teach you something buddy. He says, you don’t have a junkyard. Dale says, you’re right here. Won’t do it. He why just come up there and race when you have it.

But we were good friends. Earnhart was a pretty special person. It hurt the day that we lost him. I rush, I ask what? Shithead?

Dave Hare: Yeah. I’m thinking there’s an entire line of apparel there somewhere. Just waiting to be,

Jimmy Spencer: Hey man, you gotta listen. Tony Stewart, Richard Childers, I’ve got another Richard Childers in this pilot riding around.

They run outta cars now. My mom was a cleaning fanatic. My mom has a laundry car and in the back seat is two laundry baskets. Childre says that thing’s got the keys in it.

Child’s [00:13:00] cousin jumps in the seat. He says to the pilot, come on, get, let’s go. We got a car. You can tell Richard. He’ll tell you the story. And my mom goes, Richard, that’s my damn laundry car. Where you going? I’ll bring piece.

And he proceeded to go around. And who hits him? Earnhardt right in the fricking door. And he goes to the pilot. Pilot says, that’s some bitch is crazy. He says, yeah, but he says he really pissed me off. ’cause he says now he knocked the radio out. The radio ain’t working. But oh the I, if I had it on film, it was just incredible stuff.

Tony Stewart wanted to do it every fricking week. He brought helmets. Oh smoke was there And the best one was Robbie Gordon comes up. So we’re about outta cars. That stupid son of a bee goes and takes his rental car. He’s out there and he knocks the hell out of it. And he says to the guy, he said, did you put your shirts on that?

He said, I hope so. And he did. He knocked it. You can’t prove the damage he did to the car. Oh, those are good memories.[00:14:00]

Dave Hare: So you started out in, in the late model rag.

Jimmy Spencer: Yep. Like one year,

Dave Hare: right around 79. Then you went to the modifieds.

Jimmy Spencer: First year 79 incident was a port royal.

Dave Hare: Yeah. That prompted your, that prompted

Jimmy Spencer: it. And, uh, I actually went to Maryland Beltsville. It wasn’t Bush cars, it was Grand Nationals. I went down there, I met with Emanuels of Wakus.

I was gonna go dirt racing because I loved dirt. So I went up, Dave Aniel, did all my rear ends and stuff in my, I became good friends with Dave after Dave had built cars. He won Syracuse and stuff. But anyway, Dave said, you don’t want to do this. He said, you’re too good for this. He says, you need a asphalt racing.

And NASCAR was starting a touring series, and the most instrumental one was Jack Johnson. Jack said, I, I’ve heard about you dirt racing and your daddy. He says, no. He says, you want to go asphalt racing? He says, as young as you are, you don’t need to be doing this dirt, man. That’s what I did.

Dave Hare: So you would’ve been think

Jimmy Spencer: 20.

Yeah. 20 years old. Not even.

Dave Hare: Yeah. Somewhere around there.

Jimmy Spencer: Yeah. Got, I think I got my first cup right. Late twenties and now they’re doing it when they’re 16.

Dave Hare: Right? Lon Rookie of the year.

Jimmy Spencer: Yeah. [00:15:00] 79.

Dave Hare: Yep.

Jimmy Spencer: Gail Clark, he built my motors. That guy taught me a lot about racing. When I first went to Barry’s shop, I was impressed how clean it was.

When I went to Gail Clark’s, he would not let you touch the bearings with your fingers, the acid on your fingers. He says, no, you have to have rubber whatever. Gloves chewed my head off. I says, oh no, don’t touch them. No. Oh, whoa. And Gail was actually the crew chief for Jeff Bodine.

Dave Hare: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: And, uh, that’s how I became known Gail.

And Gail was the one who told me, he says, you’re pretty damn good at what you do, buddy. You know, it’s like Lynn and I were talking before about younger drivers. We wanna help ’em. You wanna see a young driver do good. And so many young drivers today are afraid to ask you.

Music: Really?

Jimmy Spencer: Yeah, you, you see it a lot.

I think the internet is changing them, but there’s still a lot. I was very fortunate when I moved south to race a couple times against Richard Petty, Bobby Allison. They teach me a lot

Dave Hare: different times. 82 and 83. Shangrila, nascar, Winston Racing Series track titles there. That was

Jimmy Spencer: my first, I, uh, bought a car from Rich.

And I didn’t like it. Richie Evans? [00:16:00] Yeah. My dad actually bought it and I was selling tires at Evergreen, still trying to make money. Race Plus had a car lot. I knew we were doing good ’cause we were winning races. But I remember Ga Clark telling me, you need to go buy a trailer. Car me your Troy. I said, you know what, I’ll call ’em up until I got to lose.

So I was broke. My wife Pat and my sister go on a cruise ’cause I was supposed to go on a cruise. And I said, we’ll take, take Chrissy. So they were on a cruise. I stayed home and I sold 13 cars that week at the car lot. And I says, yeah, good idea to buy a race car route about now. So thirsty come called Maynard up, I says, Hey Maynard, I want a new car.

I said, listen, I want Chrome on it. I want it nice. He says, it’d be about 9,200 bucks. I says, all right, I’ll send you a deposit. He says, no, I’ll just build you one. Don’t worry about it. And about a week or so he says, I’ll have it almost done. He says, then send me half the money. So I did. So you know, pat says, what’s that check outta that account for?

He says, raised car. I knew it. She was very supportive and so was my dad. But we bought a tour car and I ended up becoming the house driver. And Maynard said, [00:17:00] as as good as you are at a Wego New York, you can go anywhere and win. He said, when you can master Shangri Law Wego, you can. And he was right. I’ve been fortunate to, in every modified race strike I’ve been at.

Dave Hare: So you transitioned to the ings and you’re looking at the asphalt end of things. At what point then are you moving toward the Bush series?

Jimmy Spencer: You know, Richie Evans and I were good friends. We end, we didn’t end up real good friends, but. Because you raced the first championships in 84. I did, but he said to me, I says, Richie, I says, how come you never went?

Cup racing goes hell. He went down there. Do you remember when the built the modifieds? He went down there to Daytona on Friday with the NASCAR modifieds.

Music: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: He kicked their ass. Richie was very good. He beat Darryl Waltrip, Bobby Allison, all of them. He goes, I make more money driving modifieds than you do Raven Nasco.

Because he had b Dubt is the sponsor the whole nine yards. So in 84, I raced Richie and I went broke. I, I, I literally went broke again. I said, well, time to go south in 84. I started, I started selling a lot of cars and stuff [00:18:00] and met some great people. I drove for Art Murray out of Rhode Island. I drove for Eddie Mke.

I drove for Renie Garland, not Char Garland outta Canada. And was very fortunate. They paid me good money and I, I won for him. I went to Westboro, went to a lot of these races and you know, I became fairly good friends with Richie and he said, whatcha gonna do next year? And I said, I’m going south. I got a phone call my buddy, you ain’t gonna believe what happened today.

And I says, shit, no, you know, Richie gets killed. And then, uh, you know, a month goes by and Hunter calls me up and he says, gene DeWit wants you to drive his car modified. I said, okay. So that sounds like a good deal. And, uh, that would’ve been 80, 86. So over the winter, everything’s going good. I ordered two brand new Toyota cars.

That was a dream because I was gonna have a Goodyear Tire deal. I was gonna have a motor deal and a credit card. I never had that. And uh, that was pretty cool. And I said, man, I can make some money doing modify it. So. Gene DeWitt’s son says to [00:19:00] Mr. Dewitt, we can’t have him drive. He’s from Pennsylvania. We have to have a New York driver, gene dewitt concrete company.

So Hutter called me about on and he said, listen. He says, Gene’s son’s saying you can’t drive his cars. I says, well, that’s great. I says A month ago, and we gotta be at the circuit. He goes, well, Frank Cece asked me you could drive his cars. So I said, okay. So I went up, Frank had his car sitting there. I go to the Shangrila the first night, a week in New York, and I’m leading the race, and George Kent passes me.

George Kent’s driving for BEI duet my brother. Ed says he does not get passed. So something’s wrong with that car. Well, the crew chief is pissed off and all. My brother Ed says, hang on a second. We pulled over it said jack it up. So we jack it up. He takes the rear wheels off and the rear end’s bent and said the damn rear end’s bent in that car.

Frank, get the hell outta here. It’s a brand new rear end. Well, Ronnie Kent said to Frank, get used to it because that’s what’s gonna happen to you every race. Frank said, I got news for you, son of a bitch. You guys are in a lot of trouble because they pissed him off. So Frank says, whatever you need, [00:20:00] go. We had George Kent two races to go in the season.

We had to lock the championship up. So Frank Cece was very instrumental in me winning those races. But the moral of the story for me was the best story ever. I was at a Wigga, New York, and Mr. Dewitt was a fantastic man with a cane. Wigga, New York had the best hotdog in the world. I said, bats. Anyway, I’m standing there and he goes, I’ll get that.

I look Mr. Dewitt. He says, Jimmy, come over. I wanna talk to you. So I go over there and I sit down there by him and he goes, congratulations. I said, what’s that, Mr. Dewett? He says, oh, you, you won this championship. He says, you’re 10 times the driver I got. And he said, Richie always told me that I just wanna take congratulations.

He said, I made a big mistake. I says, is never too late. He says, no, I’m done. He said My last year. And, uh, we won the championship and he quit sponsoring NASCAR modified. Then we went on one second time again with Frank, and then we decided to go south racing. Pretty cool. The good memories.

Dave Hare: Tell us about that decision in the move south because it’s hard.

Yeah. I mean, we’re talking 35 years [00:21:00] ago or so. Yeah, and it basically, it was a different world then. I mean, that’s a different culture.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, NASCAR didn’t care. I was at Stafford Springs, Connecticut about 19 82, 19 83. It was Spring Sizzler. I went out there and they’d implemented a Hoosier Tire rule.

Tires were junk. They blew right off the beads. Well, I blew three of ’em out that

Lynn Paxton: day

Jimmy Spencer: and I lost my front brakes. So when I lost my front brakes, I went in to fix ’em. And NASCAR says, you’re done for the day. So, Jim Hunter at Stafford, you have to understand this is the grand stands, and this was the back of the grandstand.

Okay. And I was parked right there, and Hunter is out there and he goes, so he’s making weight. Mike Joy’s there. That’s how I got Mr. Excitement. So I said, so that was it? Yeah, that’s what got me, Mr. Excitement. So I started to rear field Quebec that second.

Dave Hare: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: The fans were pounding, right? Yeah. So anyway, Eddie Young ended up coming to me after the race over.

They said, we told you not. I said, listen, when I pulled out to that tower and that guy had the chain there, I didn’t run a chain down. I said to him, I said, you two options, you either drop [00:22:00] the chain or I run it over. I said he took the smart option. I said he dropped the chain, let me go through. So I said it wasn’t my fault.

They said that, don’t be a smart Alec. But anyway, that’s them guys. That was at Ed Root and Eddie Yarrington. So they were gonna find me two grand. I call nascar, I get the letter. I called Bill France and Bill France goes, hello? I said, Mr. France, you heard what happened Sunday at Stafford. Uh, yeah, I think I did hear about that.

He goes, uh, why did you disobey the officials? I says, man, Mr. France, Jim Hunter was on the back of the damn grand stands waving for me to come on here. He was on speakerphone, France. He goes, no, no, no. I wasn’t telling you to come back on the track. I was giving you the thumbs up that you have done a good job.

I said, you sons of bitches, France says, you just keep doing what you’re doing. I said, what about this flying? He says, what? Flying? [00:23:00] So I knew where the strings were pulled down. That became Mr. Excitement and then from there became pretty successful,

Dave Hare: not arguing that full season with the Bush series. Uh, you end up, I think this is 1988, seventh in the point standings in the 34 car, you had five top fives, 13 top tens.

Pretty solid.

Jimmy Spencer: Yeah. We were sitting out as in the spring, 89 and I was sitting in the garage with me and two other guys working on the car and the phone rings and we’re in this little shop. Herb nabs, man, we were hurting for money. Phone rings, they’re underneath the car working. Hello? Yeah, this is Buddy Baker.

Is Jimmy there? I says, yeah, and if you’re F-ing buddy, b I’m the president of the United States. And I hung the phone up so we didn’t have cell phones at the time. So anyway, I go back out in the garage and Al goes, who was that? Some asshole said he was Buddy Baker and he wanted me to drive his car. Do you know Buddy Baker fired Greg Sack yesterday.

I said, what? He goes, [00:24:00] they fired Greg Sack yesterday. Jesus Christ. I. Stupid. Well, we go back to work. About 10, 50 minutes later, the phone rings again. I I run in there as quick as I can. Is is Jimmy there? I I, God Jimmy, you there? This is Jimmy. He said This is Buddy Baker. Do you wanna drive my goddamn race car, don’t you?

I said I’ll be over immediately. Bring a seat. Not supposed, my mom never used God’s name of name, but that’s what Buddy was. Anyway, drove over to the garage, put the car seat in the car, and went to Dover. That was my first cup race with Buddy, 1989. Gave me my break.

Dave Hare: You almost missed it.

Jimmy Spencer: Can you believe that?

Dave Hare: Unbelievable.

Jimmy Spencer: Drove for Bobby Allison. I was. I was very fortunate.

Dave Hare: You talked about, uh, your relationship with Dale. I’ve heard you tell a story about time Dale asked you to test a car for him at Indy. Oh

Jimmy Spencer: yeah. I got one before that.

Dave Hare: Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you got, bring it on.

Jimmy Spencer: Nobody knew Earnhardt, like he really was Earnhardt.

He was a hell race car driver, but he was special. Like every one of us. If you needed something, he’d help you. But his [00:25:00] persona at the races was different. We would go to Isabella’s to eat lunch every so often. About once a week we were driving to Isabella’s and I was sitting in the passenger seat, I guess it was about 92, maybe 93 maybe.

We’re driving down Linwood Road and he sees these two black guys over there working the church. He spins his truck around, he says, Hey boys, what you doing? Ah, you know, the old preacher says, we need to get this here leveled out. Get in the truck. He says, I’m gonna buy you boys lunch. So they jump in the truck.

He has the pack phone. Remember the old pack phone? They blast you out. Yeah. I forget who the guy was. He says, Hey, tell Blue Max to send a load of two B gravel over here to Glenwood Road and Zion Church. And he says, get the bobcat and get your ass up there and level that great, all that driveway for him.

Parking area. So we go to Isabella’s about that time, about an hour. ’cause they’re in our, he loves sweet tea and talk. And he loves Sundrop. He, oh, he loves Sundrop. And we sat there and talked to this two guys. We were just super guys and they were up in age and we, we learned a lot about them and their church and stuff.

And we stopped on the way [00:26:00] back and it is all level out. And he says, I know who you be now, man. I, I, I know who you be. And that’s Southern, that’s typical. Earnhart goes, you don’t worry about it. You just don’t owe me nothing. We are gonna pray for you and earn. He says, Earnhart believed in the Lord. I, I believe Dale’s in a better place.

He was saved. Daryl Waltrip, his wife, Stevie Waltrip was big into that. Not preacher, but make sure you were saved and stuff. So I think Earnhardt’s. But that’s the stuff that he did. I, uh, had two kids and my wife was living in Ville and I promised Pat that I would take her and the kids that weekend. We were gonna take a weekend off and we’re gonna go to Carol’s.

So about a month before that, Earnhart says, Jimmy, I need to come outta shop. Alright, so I go to the shop, he says, sit that car. He had an old 40 con line seat. I sat in the seat and everything else and I says, wow. I said, uh, these are comfortable. I see why you like him. He says, you’re driving this thing at Indy for me?

And I says, oh no, I’m not. Ain’t gonna happen. He says, that’s our off weekend. You’re driving for me. I says, I am not driving this car. I am not going to [00:27:00] Indianapolis. He goes, yay, you are. I said, I’m not. I left. Following weekend, we go to the cup race. He comes over and he says, you’re driving that damn car. I says, Dale, I promised Pat that I was taking them kids to Carolyn’s on Sunday.

He says, I promise you, I mean you will be back Saturday night at all costs to have them kids at Carolyn’s, I promise you. And I go, what if it rains? He says, Mike, call you, fly You home the. I said, okay, I’ll do it. And I was hurting for money at the time. And one thing led to another. It was one of the greatest days, one of the greatest weekends.

I says, babe, I’ll be back Saturday night. I mean, he promised me she’s okay, but, and I think he’s gonna gimme a couple grand. I could use the money. So I drive up to Tony U, senior and junior. What a great time. Get my own motel room. I can’t believe this crap. And I, I don’t know why earns doing what he’s doing, because he could have got some other people to do it.

I realized after I did it, why he did. ’cause I was winning some Bush races and he trusted me. So I, I said to him, I said, I’ll go up there, but I’m not going to do nothing to the car. He says, [00:28:00] make the car the way it’s supposed to. I want to know. I said, okay. So he goes into Michigan to the I rock race. So he flies back.

Well, that afternoon, just the man alive, he could draw a freaking crowd, that freaking grandstand. And they were, they were lined up everywhere, you know, as I was practicing with a Saturday and I says, Tony, I said, this is what, you know, make a long story short. I said, I feel this. It needs to be a little bit freer, dead center corner.

They did everything. I said, I fixed it. I qualified. Fifth, I get in there and he, he comes in, he comes in, he goes, what’s the story? And I said. Dead neutral, little snug to start after about four or five laps, I said, that bitch is on the money. He said, okay. Drives from the rear of the field to the lead. And unfortunately he had an air gun break and he ends up finishing third in the race.

We jump in the van on a hill, so there is in the van and Earnhardt’s in the front seat and Mike’s in the other seat and I’m in the back. So, oh, oh, Mike, stop there. Stop there. So he goes and he stops with the pay shack. Where you going? Uh, don’t worry about it. And he gets a fricking brown envelope. [00:29:00] Brown’s pack.

Whoa. I know what that is. That’s dead presidents. And we get to the airport before that. He says, leave your luggage. We get at the airport, we’ll get it later. You know, you come to the shop, pick it up, I’ll drop you off the task. ’cause we landed a Spencer airport up in near Spencer, North Carolina entrance Ville.

Annapolis go to get into the plant there. He says, no you’re not. Said some stuff to there. And he said, yes, he is. He’s sitting right there. So I did. So we’re coming home and our nurse says, what the hell did you do to that car? And I says, nothing. I says, Dale, I told you I was gonna get in the car. I says, Tony changed the can.

I said, they realized the can game wasn’t right. I says, he changed the both upper A arms went out. And I said, son, bitch was hooked. He says, you’re damn right was he goes, what do you think’s wrong? I says, Dale, the last time I drove a MoSo motor, I believe I could pull spark, plug wire off and beat that motor you had.

And he goes, I know. That’s what Childress has been telling me. I said, Dale, your motors are terrible. I mean, they were down. Major Dennis Fisher was built and they were terrible motors. So I fall asleep on the [00:30:00] airplane and then Theresa, I land and we have a new, new suburban. I get in the back seat and he drives me off and eat front my house.

And he hands me a big white envelope. I didn’t think nothing of, threw it on the counter. Go to bed about seven o’clock, my wife comes in and wakes me up. Hey, there’s an awful lot of money in that envelope. I go, how much is in there? She says, $9,000. Ah. I said, he must have made a mistake. Don’t worry about it.

So we got to car Monday. I come order an art shop, reach in my back pocket. He’s up in his office signing autograph, and I throw the envelope down. What’s the matter? I says, I think you made a mistake. Well, you want more?

I, I couldn’t believe it. And I said, Dale, do you know how much is in there? He says, it’s worth every penny to me. He’s, I got 40 grand to do that deal anyway. What are you worried about? So earn, I made a lot of freaking money. That was, that was, that was interesting. But good friends with Dale. I, it, it hurt that day pretty bad when we lost him.

But part of the sport, I guess

Dave Hare: doesn’t making any easier.

Jimmy Spencer: No.

Dave Hare: Another guy that Jimmy, that [00:31:00] you’ve talked so fondly about over the years, Bobby Allison, tell us about getting hooked up with him and what it was like to work with Bobby Allison.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, Joe Gibbs is probably a strong Christian. I mean, he gives you his testimony.

It’s absolutely phenomenal. And Bobby Allen’s pretty close. Bobby lost both of his sons. Now he’s lost. Judy. Judy, Judy, my dad used to say I finished third at Nazareth, passed Bobby Allison to get third. He finished fourth. He come over, we were talking there. He said to me, he said, you did a good job. We became pretty good friends.

And one of my first times at at Daytona, I was parked right next to ’em. ’cause we were on the outside looking in because they had the points lined up. The cars with the points were lined up. Then we were in the other garage, Darryl Waltrip, Dale Earnhart. ’cause they weren’t in the points and that’s where the new cars had to park.

I was fortunate. Park next to Bobby, I qualified Sabbath. He qualified eighth and he’s looking at my car and he goes. Nope. Nope. Put that spoiler back up. We put the spoiler back up. It slowed the car down. About two and a half tents. Saturday comes and I’m out there [00:32:00] and he sees me on the introduction, sees me on the pit road.

He walks by and he looks at my car and he goes, buddy, what did I tell you? No, no, no, no, no. He said, bump that thing up. Second lap coming off a four. Caution, caution spin. Yeah. Who the hell do you think it is? Me. Here I go spinning into the damn infield. I don’t hit nothing. I said, oh, thank God. I says, ed bumped the goddamn spoiler up.

Like Bobby said,

Music: I bumped

Jimmy Spencer: it up. And anyway, that was the year Bobby got hurt. Bobby won the Daytona 500 and he won the goodies 300 the day before. Won both races. Bobby was watching my career with Buddy and all that, and I was driving for Dick MoSo. What happened was I was driving for Travis. Travis ran outta money.

Dave Hare: Travis Carter.

Jimmy Spencer: Travis Carter. That would’ve been 91. 91. So I was driving for Moosa, the Daily First Aid car and all that. We won a bunch of races and I was at Myrtle Beach. There was a rain delay at Michigan and they were all watching us at Myrtle Beach and I [00:33:00] was fortunate enough to make a three laps that day.

It’s weird, but you get a feeling when sometimes the good Lord’s watching over you. So Dick Moroso, who’s Robbie was a hell of a race car driver, got killed two years earlier. Lots of guys drove his race car and he come to Travis, he says Travis, he says, I fired Mike Wallace. He says, I want Jimmy to drive my car.

And he says, well, yeah, you can drive his car. So I did, and we won three races. We were at Myrtle Beach. Mark Reno had built a hell of a car. Saturday morning comes, Dick goes, Aldi said, you changed the gear. I says, yeah. I says, I need this gear. He said, motor’s gonna blow up. I says, no, won’t. I said, I’ll lift.

Be careful. ’cause he said, if you don’t, it’s gonna blow up. I says, no. I’ll lift a new tires, it’ll turn. Look what happened. I had that gear in it because on the restart, I was leading the race. And the fricking thing jammed in gear. The her ship pin broke, so it jammed in third gear. So by the time they got it fixed, there was three laps down.

Go back out on the track. Chief Griss was leading the race then, and I made the one lap up. I’m sitting there two laps down and the caution comes out and Dick Russell comes on the radio races. I think you need to park that car and save it for [00:34:00] next week. And Mark Rina was one of the best crew chief he ever had.

He says, we don’t park nothing, Dick. He says, we, you worry about this race, we’ll worry about next week. Dick says That car’s too fast. I want to, I want to run it in. He says, I don’t give a shit. We’re gonna run it. He says, Jimmy, what do you think? And I says, I believe we can make these laps up. So you would line up back then at the, on the inside.

Fuck what happened. We made up the

Music: lap

Jimmy Spencer: cars. Yeah, the lap car we made, we made the laps up and won the race, but under the rain delay, you know, got a phone call and it was Bobby Allison. He said, you, you’re gonna make another lap up? I said, yeah. He goes, I gotta talk to you on Monday. I want you to stop by the shop.

I said, okay. I wouldn’t race. Monday comes, I go over to see Bobby. He goes, I’m having a problem with es. They want to leave. They want to keep one of the greatest dirt racers ever to drive a dirt late model. Jeff Purvis, hell racer good friends with Jeff still is today. Jeff tore a bunch of stuff up, Wilkesboro, they tore two more cars up.

They have one car left in the shop and Bobby calls me up. He said, I want you to come over Tuesday, put your scene in the car. Pervis is taking all this stuff out. He’s gone. We want you to drive for [00:35:00] us. Because what had happened was that they put Hut Strickland in it and Hut got fired. Pervis got put in it and then I got in it.

It’s interesting ’cause Hagerstown, Frank, er, he owns Hagerstown, him, Bob, bill B and Bobby were owners of that team. They were like 28th in the points, and it was a lot of money. If you could move the car in the top 20, I went in there with Jimmy Finning. That was the best crew chief I had without a question, even though I didn’t win with him.

And we went in that shop. There was four races to go. We were gonna win Charlotte. That was the first one we qualified. I was running third and we were tracking down whoever it was at the time, and they come on the radio and they said, you are about three tenths quicker lap than them guys right now. So whatever you’re doing, keep doing it.

And Dick trickle, ironically, wasn’t his fault at all. Dick Grammy High. And I thought I got the wall a little bit, but I didn’t. It got a little loose. And so about seven 30 in the morning on Monday, Bobby said, what are you doing? I said, taking the kids to school. I want you to come over here as soon as you can.

I said, okay. So Monday, I, I mean I shoot over, I told Pat this, [00:36:00] babe, I’m gonna run over here. I do. Bobby says, come out and show you something. So the right rear truck arm was cracked all the way around. There was two U bolts that went down the thing like that. And there was an eighth inch plate of steel.

That’s the only thing. Held it together. And Bobby’s looking at that and he goes, that’s what cost us the race yesterday. But more importantly, he said that the good Lord was watching over you. ’cause he says, if that would’ve broke, you probably wouldn’t be here. And I says, holy hell, Bobby. He said, you did fourth.

We got fourth. He said, just hang onto to the car. ’cause Jimmy, I said, Jimmy, this has gotten very, very loose. I says, if I step on the brake it gets worse. He said, but don’t you, you know, so hang on. So we hang on about fourth because there’re like 20 laps to go in. Charlotte, you running pretty fast but you don’t know what’s gonna break.

We go test the next week, Tuesday at Rockingham, we’re gonna win Rockingham and the fricking air gun breaks end up losing a lap. Making a lap back up. Finish seventh, we go to Phoenix. Davy was racing with the championship leading the race and all day long we kept having bad pit stops and I said, BA, you have to fix the pit stops.

He’s, I’ve taken care of it. So he gets a new Jackman. The last two pit stops, hysteric. We [00:37:00] come in third. Instead of coming in and running sixth or seventh, we come out third, the last pit stop of the day. Come out running second. Wow. What an awesome job. Great guys. I’m coming down pit road, going down the back street.

I look, I said son of a bitch. 28 car, Davey. Bobby? Yeah. I said, we got a problem in front of us. Jimmy Finney. What do you mean? I says, you’ll see in it less than a minute. We were coming down the front straightaway. I had an open face helmet on Mike Keys. I’m watching him. He goes, that’s no problem. He said, that’s just another car that you have to pass today to win this race.

And I was like, did I just hear that right? And I said to myself, holy cow. He goes, listen to me buddy. He says, you’ve done a great job today. Now that car is racing for the championship, but you need to pass that car so we can win. And he says, you remember we’ll be racing that same position next year. So you treat him like you want to be treated and go get him.

I was absolutely in, couldn’t say nothing. I waited and Jimmy comes like, is you okay? I says, yeah, I’m okay. Went back to 1518 lefts to go in the race. We passed [00:38:00] Davy to get the lead and the fricking motor broke a rocker arm. I said, Jesus Christ. How the hell could that happen? Broke a rocker arm and we still finished.

Fifth what to Atlanta? Had a car capable winning in that race. So Davey was in the 28 car that day. And I said to Bobby, I said, Bobby, listen to me swerving. Irvin is driving like a maniac and he’s driving a Kodak car. And I says, tell Davey to stay behind me. And I says, well, I could protect him. Bobby says, yeah, ’cause we were in the top 28 points now and we were in the top 10 in the race.

And my concern was to help Davy win the championship. ’cause if Davy would’ve finished in the top 10, he was locked in. And at the time we were running like eighth or ninth and weren’t running that hard. And this is no lie. You guys go back on YouTube or whatever, you watch that wreck, you watch the white and blue, red number 12, go on the inside of that wreck.

And Davey was ahead of me and he wrecked, unfortunately. And Larry Mc Reynolds was the crew chief. And I told Bobby what we were gonna do and Bobby went down there and told Robert Yates and Larry [00:39:00] mc Reynolds never told Davey. Pretty pissed off. Bobby Allison was pretty pissed off. So after Davey wrecks, Bobby says, there’s only one thing you can do.

Go get him. Well, that’s the day that Alan and Bill ran for the championship. Well know it all here, I’m gonna get ’em. So I went after their ass and I was as fast as they were, and I think I was faster and about a hundred laps to go in the race. I was wore out. I was like, Hey, no. So I come on the radio and I says, yeah, the car’s getting a little tight.

So I started slowing down. I was falling outta the seat. I still can’t believe how tired I was. And I realized how in shape you had to beat a race, the intensity level that Quicky and Bill put on. So after the race was over, we finished fourth, I think Jeff put, I end up beating me and I come in. I said, Bobby and Jim, I didn’t talk to you guys in the holler.

So we go up in the hall, I close the door and Bobby says, we know what happened. I’ll help you. We gotta fix it. Jimmy said, we know what happened, but he says, you’re our driver. We had a great year, but we didn’t have no money. But we had a great year. But that was the best team I drove for. Even I never [00:40:00] won.

It was Bobby Ellison. I remember when Davey got killed. I was there when Clifford got killed at Michigan. He lost both of his boys. Bobby Allison was a pretty special person. He’s still my friend today. Talked to him a lot. I still talk to him at least once a month.

Dave Hare: Jimmy, there was a story you told, I found just so intriguing.

You were testing, I guess, driving for Bobby and I think it was super Speedway. Yeah. And the car was what? A little loose? Yeah. Kicked in and he gave you a piece of advice. Just doesn’t seem to make sense. It did make sense.

Jimmy Spencer: We were at Daytona, you know, we kept working. All we worked on was do not turn the steering wheel, try to keep the wheels least amount of possible, don’t turn the wheel at, try to let the car drive itself.

And we kept working on working and Bobby would pound in my head, whatever you do, keep doing it. Identical. Don’t change your line. The computer could pick up the speeds. Yeah. I said, Bobby, I said, it’s a little free. I says, when I roll that thing down in the corner, it starts to free up. I have to back off the wheel.

He says, turn it to the right. I went, what? He goes, when you go down into the corner, [00:41:00] take all the pressure off the wheel and push it back to the right a little bit. He said it’ll tighten it up. It’ll put wedge in it. I says, Bobby, man, we’re running 200 mile an hour into the corner. He goes, trust me, it’ll work now.

You don’t panic. He said, you just do it gradually. And I went out there and I tried it and it worked. I was like son and it worked, learned from a lot of this I’ve never worked with Junior, where one in 94 we was at Daytona and Banjo Matthews come over, junior goes banjo. He goes, boy’s complaining about the car doing this and that.

Banjo had a big thick old pair of glasses. Smart son of a big old banjo Matthews. And uh, he had built a front steer car with a rear steer suspension. The pivot points had to be at the right height. And him and Junior, you haven’t seen that. Them two big old bellies and you know, they laying on the ground looking and he take a tape measure.

Banjo looked at Junior, he says, can’t fix this son of a bitch. He said They put the clip on wrong. I said, boy, that’s great. So we went on to Daytona. Unfortunately we wrecked, which I sort of [00:42:00] figured we were gonna have with what happened with the front end. ’cause he could never turn the car back the other way.

That was after Bobby I was driving. This is 94 for the Daytona 500. We won Daytona. We were beating Ernie back to Talladega in April and finished second Earn Earnhardt. That was pretty cool. I remember Teddy Musgrave drove my car and he says, there is no way you can drive that car that way. I says, well, if you ever drove for Bobby Allison, you, you would do that.

And he says, you, you will wreck. I says, no, I don’t. And we didn’t rack.

Dave Hare: I want you to tell just one more short story about Dale. There was something he told you that he did before the race on Pit Road. Oh man. That just sort of separated him from everybody else. That was his mindset. Tell us about that.

Jimmy Spencer: Yeah, it was, Schrader would come over, we’d all sit in Earnhardt’s old barn, we’d bullshit steal stories.

Earnhart had five gallon buckets, you know, the old like pal plaster buckets of water, and that was our meeting room. So this is before I was cup racing, and this would’ve been 80, 88. We were sitting there one night, I says, Earnhart hated a skunky beer. He loved Bud Light. He could tell he’s not skunky throwing, [00:43:00] he’d made Go get more Bud Light.

But anyway, I says Earnhardt. So they were all like Inger. And I sat there next to my Earnhardt. I says, what makes you think you’re so damn good? I don’t know. He said, I guess I just think I’m better than everybody. He says, what I do is that before the race starts, he would always get on his car and he would sit on the windowsill of his car.

Slide his butt down in there, get on the window, Silva’s car. Wherever he started, he’d looked back and he’d go to himself. Ain’t nobody here good enough to beat me there. I believe I can get all those guys in front of me to believe I could beat every one of them. He’d slide back in the car. Determination.

Paxton could tell you, I mean, you knew you could race against, you knew how determination a lot of guys never had the focus and the determination. They always would complain about their car. Earnhart taught me one time, he said, listen, you have a three foot yard stick. You tell them to get that son of the bitch within that three foot yard stick and you handle it the rest of the way.

It’s a lot more complicated now, but he was right. If it’s tight, you loosen it up. If [00:44:00] it’s loose, you tighten it up. You have that yard say you gotta drive that car. And I, I remember one time Bill Elliot telling me, Ray Abraham says, listen. He says, I need you to talk to Casey Kane and, and I think the world of Casey and Casey was just over driving all the time and Bill was his teammate.

Bill says he’s the best at telling you this story. He says, Gacy, I’ve done it my whole life. I always drove to the edge and beyond and I, I usually didn’t come back. I says, you got to learn that you only could push that car to nine and a half 10, and that’s it. If you go over, you’re gonna wreck, you’re wrecking a lot.

And that’s what I did. And I says, you, you gotta back up and tell the crew chief to fix that car. And the biggest thing that I found in racing was that’s why Kirk Schine and Earnhart were so good together. And Earnhardt hated Larry McReynolds. You, you, you hated certain people because they, I knew the day was over for Chad au I was sitting with Rick Hendrick and Jimmy Johnson was out there and Chad Au was telling him how to drive that car.

And I said to myself, that’s the end of this man. You don’t become a seven time [00:45:00] champ by listening to your crew chief tell you how to drive that damn race car. And I knew that marriage was over. I said, that’s instant divorce. It’s funny because. Talking about being booed and yay. And we were at WA as Glen and we were coming across the track and man, these people were going crazy.

Yay. Oh, you know, and my buddy tc, he’s 87 years old with me, my Alex, my best friend, and Mike says, tc, can you believe this at TC said No. ’cause he said the last time he left, hit him sons a bitches boot him so bad he couldn’t stand it and now they’re applauding. So Mike said what it just, how it changes.

But uh, we were getting introduced to Dover and I don’t know what happened the week before. I guess they must have thought I’d done something wrong, which I never thought I did anything wrong. And we were coming across it, it di intros, they are booing and yaying like, no tomorrow. I think I started the 17th and Earnhardt was 18th.

No, Earnhardt come across first. [00:46:00] Boone Yank going crazy. So he’s sitting in the back of the pickup truck waiting for me and they start boo and yanking for me and I’m like, son, why are they booing? Get up in the Hollerer and Earnhardt puts his arm around me and he goes, doing good buddy. He said, because when they people are yelling, you gotta appreciate it.

I hate to pick on people. But the next guy up was Brett Benign, and then the next guy up, they never made a sound. I got his point. I said, wow, that’s interesting. And one thing about being booed and yay that you’re doing your job. And I mean, you look back, AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti, you look back, they hate Kyle Bus.

I’ll never eat another Emine M in my life. And they’re the first ones to buy an Eminem. I mean, what the hell is Eminem’s got to do? It’s the greatest candy in the world. But Kyle Bus, because he didn’t like him, but I had a talk with him one time ’cause won Bristol. I was doing TV and part-time truck racing.

He smashed a guitar and then he wins the race at Bristol. And he said, this is the worst piece of shit ever drill in my life. Now that was the car of [00:47:00] the morning. He just won the race. So the following week, it was the Darlington, I believe, when we were gonna go to Texas the following week. And Mr. Hendrick and Mr.

France were up in the hollerer and bust her out and comes over to the thing and he goes, Hey, some guys wanna talk to you up in the Hollerer. I says, oh shucks, what do I do now? So I go up into the Hollerer and old man France is sitting there and. He said, close the door, said, I closed the door and they said, we need you to do us a favor.

We need to talk to Kyle. And I said, okay, I’ll, I’ll do that. And Bill explained to him that the sport doesn’t need him. We want him, but if he wants to, we can kick his ass out just like anybody else. So you, you know the old story, ’cause I had that talk too, too. Certain drivers would tell you what you’re doing right and wrong.

We were in the truck race Thursday, I went to the hauler. I knew he was qualified, so I was sitting there waiting at the truck. Like we always just sit on the director’s chairs. And one of the crew members said, you need you, you need to move. I says, no, you need to leave me alone. ’cause I says, I’m in in a talkative mood, which I’m not gonna talk to you anybody.

I gotta talk to Kyle. So you just need to be on your way. I said, you need to move. I says, [00:48:00] no, you don’t know what I’m telling you. Anyway, long story short, the other guy come over, he says, whoa, whoa, whoa. He says, there was an official there. He says, get the hell away from here. Anyway, so here comes Kyle. Very respectful guy.

Hey Jimmy, what’s up? I said, need to talk to you. So he said, lemme change. So he goes up in the hollerer to change. He comes back out, he goes, I said, Kyle, I need to talk to you. And you go between the two haulers. He goes, boy, I don’t know if I should do that. I, I know what you’ve done to my brother. I says,

Kyle, he ain’t got nothing to do with your brother. He’s got something to do with you and what’s going on. All right. So we go up in putting holler. He’s smirking and laughing and everything. He said, Kyle, this, this is no joke or matter. I said, you realize there’s a lot of people in this support you respect, but there’s two that I respect up more than anybody.

One of them is your car owner and the other one’s Mr. France. And I said, the last one either can make you stay or let you leave. That’s totally up to you. I don’t know. I said, Kyle, if he wants you gone, you can be gone. That’s just the way NASCAR operates. Now, Mr [00:49:00] PR knows you’re a good draw, but he wants me to talk to you about something.

I said, do you realize how many guys out there raced their whole life and never won a trophy and you broke a cherished trophy like you did it? The guitar knows I’m serious now. He goes, so this is Kyle. You stop and think a minute about what you did. You disgraced the sport, you disgraced the trophy. He says, I got another one for you.

You just won Bristol. That’s what we’re still selling out. 120,000 people. And you said the car’s a piece of shit. Kyle, do you know how many guys never won a cup race? They want to run a cup and you’re, you know, he says, you know, thanks for talking to me. I said, Kyle, I’m just telling him for your own good.

Still didn’t straighten him out ’cause Rick still fired him, but I think straightened him out was Samantha, his wife. And he come to me about three years later and he goes, you know what talk we had? I said, yeah. He says, you know, I thought about. And he says, you know, you were right. I just wish you would’ve acted quicker.

And I think Joe Gibbs helped him a lot too, because I think the biggest thing, I was talking to Rick, but he still confides in Rick [00:50:00] a lot. The biggest thing with Kyle was that Rick and Kyle still do good together. Everybody trusts Rick Hendrick, everybody trusts Joe Gibbs and that, and you keep a lot of stuff in house.

I said to myself, can you imagine being a young guy winning races and your car owner says, we don’t need you any longer. And he’s the number one card owner in the sport. You have to see yourself driving home. What the hell just happened? And I think that helped him along. And then the joke gives, hired him and you know that it was history.

Hell, the driver talented, one of the greatest guy rights.

Dave Hare: Jimmy, uh, we talk about, we’ll call the primary storylines, what’s up front. Everybody sees, you know, the racing, the rivalry, that type of thing. I mean, you’ve touched on it briefly, but talk a little bit about the secondary storyline, the politics of NASCAR and what goes on behind the scenes.

My buddy Paul had worked for Carlisle Events and they brought Richard Petty in for an event and he was having a conversation with Richard. And Richard. At one point during the conversation said to him, it’s not a race, it’s a show.

Jimmy Spencer: The one thing that Mr. [00:51:00] France Senior started, he saw back in the forties, there was promoters putting races on all over the country and nobody had organized and nobody had control to where that anybody could race anywhere.

That’s William France. That’s the old man, and he, he started nascar, him and a bunch of other guys, Daytona Beach, the whole nine yards. I was talking to Mr. Melvin Joseph one time, the guy that owned built Dover, how they were building Talladega and how they relied the people behind the scenes that helped them build racetracks.

And then Bill got in charge and he learned from his dad the same thing. I mean, they went through some tough times, but they tried to police the sport. They tried to make it as competitive as it was. I, I remember when Taurus days, they had the Lumina. So the Tauruses came out and that was right after the Thunderbirds.

And they had won like six or seven in a row. And Earnhardt says, bill wants to talk to us. So we went into the Hollerer. [00:52:00] Earnhart said, tell ’em Spence. And I said, bill, when them cars getting ya, they gained about 700 counts of downpours in earn. That’s what I’ve been telling you, bill. And then I remember one time with the Luminous were way better than the Thunderbirds.

France would adjust the spoilers, adjust the rules to try to make the field balanced. We you get in the conversation with ’em, he would always sit at his desk and the hollerer and he always had his back to the crowd. When that hauler was parked, the grant stands was behind him. He’d go, that’s what we’re doing.

And that message was. We’re worried about the fans. We’ve got to keep the fans going. And I said, bill, how do you police this thing? These guys have no clue what they’re doing today compared to what we went through. We went through the five and five rule. We went through fricking rules. You talk about changes.

No fan wants to hear. Well, we had a good day today. Finished eighth. Had a good point. What the hell are you talking about? Eighth is a good points today. What the hell’s going on with this sport? I remember when Earnhardt and Rusty, I remember how, I mean they talk about aero push. Hell, [00:53:00] a fan could care less about aero fricking push.

They wanna see a god dang race. And that’s what Bill always would put on. And the drivers were their own worst enemy. I mean, bill had to put restrictive plates on this. There was two ways to face the restrict the plate races. Buddy Bak taught me, if you see a seagull, you follow that son of a bitch. Or you could just sit there and say, you know, it’s a matter of time.

I listened to drivers of Daytona and Talladega say, it’s just a matter of time I gonna be in a wreck. Those are the guys, Bobby Allison and Buddy Baker and Junior Johnson loved the race against, ’cause they had to beat already old Ben Earnhardt. He could see. I mean, people would laugh and he was incredible at watching the angle of the car.

I mean, he was one of the best. He won all, I mean, do you realize races he’s won that Daytona 500 eluded him how many times. But Earn was one of the best plate racers and was taught by Buddy Baker and these people like that. Those guys were good at what they did, but these guys, they, they diluted the sport.

Well, he has a better car. I remember my dad one time telling me I was racing against Richie. I looked over there and I said, son, a bitch. He [00:54:00] had like four sets of tires up there and everything else. Dad said, what’s the matter? I said, look at that bastard. He got all those tires. That’s his rule. How many tires you got on your car?

Four. How many tires do you have on his car? Four. What’s the problem? That’s old racers. It’s like Paxton and I were talking Paxton. What the hell did you put them things on the side of the car for? They were nothing but heat grabbers, and then they never worked, but it was because we saw somebody else do it, so we would try it.

That’s where NASCAR lost their way. When Bill France died, they lost their way. They lost what they’re supposed to be doing, and that’s putting a show on for the people they listened to, the drivers. Denny Hammond is the biggest goddamn whiny you’ll ever meet in your life. I mean, yeah. I mean, come on.

Music: Yeah.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, in all truthfulness, you know, I mean, I’m not saying they’re not a hell of a racer, but it’s like I’m aggravated with football players because I played high school football. But you want another 25 million? And then you want me to buy your [00:55:00] jersey and everything else? And then, oh, Jesus mighty. He hurt his finger.

Oh, he’s gonna be out. I love dick Buck. We lost him. But that son of the bitch played football for one reason to kill the quarterback. And that’s what we watched it for. Okay. We watched racing because it, it was a matter of, oh boy, that guy’s gone. You had a guy that won every week, there wouldn’t be nobody in the grandstand.

That’s why you changed your state. You did anything you could in your power to try to beat that guy that was beating you. If he had a Firestone Tire on and you had a Goodyear Tire on, you would’ve say, Hmm, I better try Firestones. ’cause there are women, it was Monkey Sea Monkey deal self-policing the Parliament sing.

The problem of NASCAR was, is I was doing stuff this, and I, I said to John Darby, we were in this meeting about all this stuff and I, I said, you guys are letting them do too much stuff to these cars. I said, I know how to stop. And the engineers go, you didn’t even go to school for? I said, I’m smarter than any.

The engineer here they go, what the hell are you talking? I went for [00:56:00] six years to MIT. I said, I don’t give a shit where you are. And I said, I learned about a Stanley tape measure a long time ago. I says, you can’t outsmart a Stanley tape measure. And they looked at me and Rusty Wallace said, God damn Spence, you’re right.

I begged them to put rules in that plus or minus a quarter of an inch on their suspension. They would’ve had not had these problems if they would’ve stopped these cars from bottoming out, looking like Bucks cars going down the track. They could have stopped it 10 years ago before the old man, you know, the old man died, but they didn’t, ’cause they all thought they were smarter than the engineers.

I’m not saying I’m a smart guy, but I’m smart enough to say, wait a minute, we’re losing people in the seats. We’re losing our product. We’re losing the excitement of being Kenny Wallace. We’re not the water cooler talk anymore. Spence, you got a great point. Old Kenny was a hundred percent right about that.

When you’re not talking about it on Monday morning, you’re in trouble.

Dave Hare: Jimmy, you’re 30 years younger. Do you drive a NASCAR today? Is it an environment where you could thrive? [00:57:00]

Jimmy Spencer: Oh yeah. I think that, I remember I went to Darlington and one of my heroes was Kale Yarborough. We were parked at the fourth turn, the original fourth turn at Darlington.

Earnhart mastered that track, and we were standing and he had Derek Koch driving his car. And, and Kale was up there watching, and you could see him, you know, he’s doing the old moves and stuff. I was standing there, Travis said, kale come here. And he says, kale, think you can still do it. He’s like, could beat 90% of sons of bitches.

And the other 10% would know I’m here. And the only thing about that is it’s true to your mindset, but not your physical stamina. It’s inevitable. You can still win race, you can still do good, but you gotta know when it’s time to say, you know what, it’s time to move on. And I, I enjoy watching, I still watching nascar and I, I, I, I love Kyle Larson.

I think Kyle Larson’s incredible. I like Tyler Reddick. Watch Jeff Gordon come up. It’s fun. And there’s, there’s a lot of guys I, I love watching the, uh, brace in January, chili Bowl, chili Bowl. That’s always a good race. I never could fit in a midget, so I couldn’t. [00:58:00] Hell, you didn’t fit in my sprint car. Oh, I don’t.

I thought you were gonna have to get a torch out to cut. Cut me off to Paxton. I still think we have a lot of young talent. I remember I was telling Barry when I went down to North Carolina with my dad, we did really good. We won two championships and I had a lot of money. My car lot was making a lot of money.

Our junk guard was doing really good. And my dad, I never called him my old man. My old man sat there and he goes, it’s not too late to turn around. We’d drive another 30, 40 miles and he’d say, it’s not too late to turn around. Had a U-Haul. Had a U-Haul. I was taking all my stuff to North Carolina to live 1988.

I says, dad, if I fail, I can always come back. Yeah, but you won’t fail. He says, I know that. That’s pretty cool. Good stuff.

Dave Hare: Talking about young drivers, let’s go back about 20 years. Bristol Motor Speedway and Kurt Bus.

Jimmy Spencer: I, I’ll, I’ll tell you a quick story about Kurt

Dave Hare: Busch. Yeah,

Jimmy Spencer: yeah. I’m sitting there with old man one day at the driver’s meeting.

At the driver’s meeting. When you would come through that door and somebody [00:59:00] whistle or whatever you respect, especially Erhardt, you’d never mess with Richard Pat, Bobby Allison. When they called you to the office, you better come. I’m sitting there right by Earnhardt, Earnhart, all he sat on the front corner.

Kurt, what up bitch? Naughty. Walked that way. Kurt and now everybody sees him. Kurt, he comes over. Kurt sits down in front er. I’m sitting right there. You stick that finger up in me again. I won’t break it and both off and stick them up your ass. I’m like, oh, Earnhardt hated to be flared. Don’t ever do that.

And I went, damn, what’s that about? He goes, you know me buddy, take anything but a flare. He said, he flared me twice. He said, Jim, he’s a hell of a race car driver, but he has no respect for anybody. That’s the easiest way to explain it. Kurt said that I, he’s funny. That’s somewhere. Then it proceeded to go to Bristol.

He knocked me up at Bristol, tried to not wreck me. I says, well, Bobby Allison always taught me this needs to be addressed. And I [01:00:00] said, well, I’ll address it. We was in Indianapolis. I decided that he needed to meet the third turn barrier, and he did.

Dave Hare: And it, it was smooth.

Jimmy Spencer: It was it, oh yeah, Hilton said, Spencer, that’s as good as it gets.

And I, I said, what are you talking about? He says, how the hell did you do that? Jim Hunter said he was still living. He goes, Spencer, how did you do this? What are you guys talking about? Jimmy Johnson called me up after that wreck. He was having a problem with Kurt. Kurt was driving for Pesky. Then at the time, Jimmy called me up one day.

He goes, SP, I want to talk to you. I said, okay. He goes, how do you spin somebody out like you did Kurt? And I says, well, I’ll show you how to do it. I go to the truck next week and I, I said, you know, Jimmy, I’ve been thinking about this. You don’t need to go down that road. Hey, you’re a five time champion. I said, he’s an asshole.

I said, don’t go down to his level. Yeah, but he’s, I want to. I want to take his ass out. And I said, well, he tried to take him out at Richmond. And I says, Jimmy, I says, what you did at Richmond, you [01:01:00] can’t mess with somebody at Richmond because there’s too much break on the car. You gotta mess with somebody at a track.

Once they lose a little control their history, you don’t mess with ’em on a track. When they got control of their car, do it at Dover. You gotta do it where it means something. When they hit the wall, it’s like, man, that hurt. So. I showed him how to do it. I mean, you just, you gotta make it look good. You gotta stay up on his back bumper and the minute you know he is gonna lift, you don’t lift, but you slam your brake on.

I mean, that’s happened in a split second. And that’s what happened to Kurt. I, I said, okay, you’re gonna lift right about now. And I just pushed him that extra five feet and I said, now something’s going in the wall, but it didn’t bother me, didn’t cost me a lot of money because they kicked me out. I can tell the story because it has to be told.

We had a talk, Jack Rauch was in there, the whole nine yards. Hilton says, I’m telling you two sons of bitches. This is over. If you do anything at all, the next time, when is this gonna be suspended? I don’t want to do it, but I will. I says, I ain’t got a problem. Well, in the meantime, Tony Stewart ran into [01:02:00] it with him.

Everybody had, he goes in the holler and Tony knocked him right in the end of the nose. Anyway, we go to Watkins Glen, okay? Everything’s fine following. We go to Michigan, we’re running in the top five. He keeps trying to knock my fenders in. He says he run outta gas. We had a pit for fuel. Michigan, you’re coming in off the fourth turn and there’s a pit opening to come in after the race.

All the haulers are lined up here and I’m coming in and here comes Kurt rubbing his motors up and he pulls up in front of me to cut me off. Ah, it’s okay. So he cuts me off. Mm-hmm. I pull in behind him, so he’s pretending like his car is stalling. I, I almost bumped him a little bit. Damnit Kurt. What? And then the next thing you know, right in front of the hauler.

In

Dave Hare: front of your hauler. In

Jimmy Spencer: front of my hauler, he sees my seven crew through gas. Man, me, you know, waving. Here, here we are. Kurt slammed his brakes on the stops. Well, I bumped him going, damnit, yeah, we’ll take care of, we’ll take care of it. So Kurt’s doing, he goes, Hey, you old bastard. I hear you. Right? So I went over there, I says, Kurt, get out of this car.

I’m gonna put one hand behind my back that’ll [01:03:00] make it a fair fight. He goes, listen, you old son of, I’m like, oh me. So I walked close to the car and he goes, I know where your family lives. That is the gospel truth. As long as I live. I looked at him and I said, no, you’re not. And all I did was just, I didn’t realize hitting that hard.

Uh, so I, I knew I was in trouble ’cause the blood squirted. I said, oh. So he goes, you broke my goddamn nose. Yeah, I did. I hope I did. So we go into the hauler. I try to sneak out. I knew I was in trouble.

Dave Hare: You and Mike Davis.

Jimmy Spencer: Oh, Mike

Dave Hare: Davis. He was driving, right? I You were laying across the back seat.

Jimmy Spencer: You, I says, Mike, he’s waiting.

I says, just get the hell out. Get us to the airplane. I get on my airplane. I said, you gotta get us to the air. He goes, oh no, Jimmy. He said, these officials are looking for something. I said, yeah, me. So the officials are going down through their garage area, looking at all the cars. [01:04:00] I says, okay, Mike, drive over to the, so we go over to the thing, and Tony Stewart was the one that told me, he says, called me up Monday.

He says, don’t say a word to anybody. I’ve been in this situation before. He says, don’t say nothing. If anybody says anything to say, boy, it’s a beautiful day today. Well, let’s talk about Darlington or whatever, which is right. That’s how he handled it. That’s how he did handle it. It helped me, but it didn’t help.

Kurt made him bigger dummy than he was. So, Helton calls me up, he says. What’d you do? I said, I, I only bitch slapped him. And Elton says, why? I explained to him Why? Well, Mike Davis got the tape. Yep. Mike Davis got the tape where he said he was gonna F up my family. He was gonna do this and that. Afterwards, Mike suspends me from Bristol Truck Race Thursday night to Bush Race Friday night, and the cup race Saturday night cost me about a hundred thousand bucks.

Never forget as long as I live, car owner pulled the truck out of the race. The Bush car finished in the top five and the cup car finish in the top five. And I felt like I could win. I was better than the guy that was in the car.

Music: Yeah. [01:05:00]

Jimmy Spencer: But anyway, I sat at home and said, you know, this sport will go on without you.

And it proved it, but he made me a hero.

Music: Yeah,

Jimmy Spencer: he made me a hero because the people where Jimmy had all these kind of shirts, Mongo and the whole nine yards, Kurt proceeded to spin out Sterling Marlin to win that race. I’m serious. People hate him. He is trying so hard. He called Mike Davis up to get on Earnhardt’s show and all this, and Earnhardt says, Kurt, nobody likes you.

He said, don’t you understand that? And he’s trying to become a TV analyst and stuff like he’s a superstar. Like everybody forgot what he said. I, I mean, I, we were at Darlington, them NASCAR officials are some of the best guys. And the girls, they’re fantastic. They’re doing their job. You never would touch ’em.

Kurt told them, he, I want you guys to lick my sweaty privates, man, why you don’t do that stuff? That is fighting words my friend. Yeah, and there were some military men and the one guy said to me, I says, why don’t you whip his ass? He goes, Jimmy, but we can’t because of who we are and what we do, so we [01:06:00] just go on.

But people don’t forget those things. I mean, it was Earnhardt, it was Tony Stewart, not just me. Go down the list of drivers he’s had a run in with and explain to me that he’s right and they’re all wrong.

Dave Hare: Well, when I was doing my research, I punched into Google, Kurt Bush spins, and before I could get to Jimmy Spencer, it dropped down this entire list of names and I went, wow, that’s pretty extensive.

Jimmy Spencer: You know what’s interesting though? I’m doing tv. Jack Rauch has got thousands of employee. Mark Martin calls me up. He says, Jack wants to talk to you at Darlington. You know, I says, Jack really pissed me off up there at Michigan last week. Mark told me you got me arrested and everything else. I says, Jack, you gotta listen to the story.

And I says, he blew up. He told me, I says, Jack, I have the most respect for you ever. I said, can’t believe you just said that to me. I said, well, you can kiss my ass right now, Jack. I’m done with you. So in Michigan, I didn’t know this. I could have been arrested, but I said, I have witnesses and all that. So then afterwards, Jack pursued it.

So the state troopers called me and I said, yes, I did hit him. But he swung at me. I [01:07:00] moved ducked. He did. How stupid are you? He’s sitting in a race car and you’re gonna swing it. You know? That’s stupid. That’s how stupid he is. And he swings. I’m like, whoa, what the hell? But anyway, so Jack comes to the hollerer mark’s there Friday night.

He goes, I’m tell you, I’m sorry. He says, Jack, I can’t accept your apology. It really hurt me. I said, I have the most respect for you, Roger. All you guys, this is better. I said, I hurt. Well, I’m gonna tell you something. To make a long story short, he explained a whole nine yards to me about the fuel, everything he heard the tape, everything else under in the sun.

And then it was actually gonna resurge my career. He would call me and I was doing tv and that’s when Kirk got in trouble with the cop at Phoenix. You don’t mess messes up, messes up the county in Arizona, that guy put, he paints his jails pink. That guy is nobody to fool with him. Well, Kurt did something wrong.

He disrespected the law. That’s one thing. Bill France say, never disrespect the military. Never disrespect the law. We can handle the hell. Sterling Marley gotta take it for 110 mile an hour. And Bill France got it taken care of like, no, [01:08:00] tomorrow. If you respect the people, you’re fine. That’s the problem I had with Kurt.

But anyway, so Jack called me up around 1130 that night. My cell phone rings. I said, Jack Roush tells me the whole nine yards. He said, I want him to drive Kurt’s car tomorrow, Phoenix. I says, oh, that’s pretty cool, Jack. I says, yeah. I said, I think I can do that. So I’m starting to realize I don’t have no helmet, I don’t have nothing.

And I said, I can’t fit in the seat. So Jimmy Finn says, well, meet me at the track tomorrow and we’ll figure something out. The wood brothers didn’t want to change the seat. I was gonna use Michael Waltrip’s seat. So I said, you know what? Jack said, listen, just drive it next week at Miami, the last race of the year, and we’ll put Kenny Wallace in it there.

Well, Kenny ran like shit in that car. He convinced the rubber made people that he needed one more shot at it. I outran Kenny Wallace in Miami with a Don Arnold’s car. God rest his soul. Good man. He wanted me to drive his car and I had called him up and told him what was happening. He says, that’s fine buddy.

You drive that nine seven car, you can win in that car. Kenny convinced him, and I said to my buddy, tc, after the race is over, I says, here’s my gloves, helmet. I’m done. Never driving another car [01:09:00] again. I never did again. But Kurt did two good things for me, and one of ’em was made me a hero. The other one was, I finally said, you know, it’s time to hang it up.

Your equipment ain’t good enough.

Dave Hare: The hero part, for those that didn’t have a chance to hear this or see it, you know, on television anywhere, but Mike Davis had gotten a hold of the in-car radio exchange where Kurt comes on and tells his crew, Hey, I just tried to wreck him and I messed up. And Mike sent that to, I believe Dave to Spain.

He did. And then after that. Man, your popularity, you’re just like Spencer for president. Yeah.

Jimmy Spencer: I could do no wrong.

Dave Hare: Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Spencer: Well, you know, the thing is, I think the biggest problem, I never lied and to nascar, he needed an old man earner. He might have told the press something wrong, but when you were in that Hollywood Bill French, you told him what happened, and if you kept your word, but those guys, you never had nothing to worry about.

And I was tired of watching these guys do stuff on the track. Oh, I blew a tire. Well, Jesus crap. You could see he didn’t blow a tire, just watched the film. And I would tell Rick Minor, he says, Rick, he didn’t blow no damn tire. I says, Teddy was our producer. He says, Teddy, roll [01:10:00] that tape back. Look. He goes, damn, you’re right.

And I’d call him. Then the next thing you know, they’re all blaming me for their misfortunes. But the best one was Tony Stewart calls me up. He goes, Spence, he says, I think I gonna own my own team. And I said, Tony, if you put any money into this thing, you’re stupid. He goes, well, I ain’t got that kind of money, but he says, I’ve been offered a deal from Gene Haas.

And I says, that’d be a good deal. So I said, what is He told me, I mean, give him a percentage, not drive the car, but you don’t play the team. I said, that’s a no brainer. So Teddy goes, you gotta explain that, how you explain it in the meeting. I said, I’ll explain it to the people. So I said, here you go. You got a man named Gene Haas.

He owns two cup cars. They run like crap. Now they’re Hendrick cars, Hendrick Motors. He’s went through 20 damn different crew chiefs. He went through everything under the sun except the two drivers. So I think it’s time to get rid of the drivers. So Jeff Green comes on cussing me and everything else. He wants to refire, he wants to have a recourse for me on the show.

Confirm to the fans that he’s a good driver. And I said, [01:11:00] okay, no. I says, how many top fights have you had? Oh, by the way, instead of top fives, he says, how many top tens have you had? He couldn’t answer ’cause he didn’t have any. And I said, Jeff Green needs to be gone. One thing leads to another. He comes on the show the next week, Teddy, he goes, Jimmy, you know we’re live.

I says, I can handle it fantastically. Don’t worry about it, Teddy. I’m not going to get you in trouble or anybody. So I’m looking in the camera and Jeff’s on and he goes, you know, you said some stuff to me last week, Jimmy, about this race team and me and everything else. And I said, yeah, Jeff, I did. I says, okay.

I says, I’ll tell you what I’m gonna do, buddy. Tomorrow morning, eight o’clock Monday, you’re the boss of that team. What are you gonna do? What’s the first thing you’re gonna do know? I mean, he, he, he don’t know what he’s gonna do. Well, no, because he need to fire the driver. Johnny Roberts catches it real quick and never again did he say anything.

Well, Brian Vickers was another one. He was gonna sue me ’cause I said some stuff to him about he was gonna win the race and Jimmy Johnson didn’t run outta gas. Oh, he, no, Jimmy Johnson didn’t run outta gas. You [01:12:00] weren’t gonna win that race anyway. He went on gas mileage, all kinds of stuff like that. But you know, it’s one of them deals that I tried to bring this, the other slide to the fans and that’s what the crane towel was for.

The crane towel was intended. Here you go. You need some help crying this towel, because that’s the only relief you’re gonna get from me.

Dave Hare: Did you have a favorite crying towel moment? ’cause there were some classics.

Jimmy Spencer: God, that’s a tough one.

Dave Hare: I kind of like the, uh, Kevin Harvick, who was he mixing up with? And he left his helmet on and you, you had said he’s gonna get in so much trouble with Delena, and then you made the comment that Delena would’ve taken her helmet off.

And then the try and tell was just

Jimmy Spencer: that was with Biffle.

Dave Hare: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: That dates back. Okay. I was driving the yellow freight car that was in Richmond? No, I think it was Bristol. I think I figured second or third and Harvick and Bhel were behind me. That’s when he was driving for Childress and freaking Harvick.

You remember Greg Biffle gave me a black eye? Do you remember that? Yeah. That was great. That makeup artist did a fantastic job. Diff comes in and slides across the [01:13:00] table because I can have fun with all those guys. The best funny I ever had was Tony Stewarts and Harvick, and they’re there and they’re, I go, you guys look like two banny roosters.

I says, punch one another and makes something happen. You know? I mean, God dang, you guys are standing up. The people wanna see something and he’s just standing there like, David says, what the hell is a ba rooster? He says, I don’t know. I said, he just looks like a ba rooster. The official says, why’d you get the hell outta here?

He says, no. Jesus Mady. I said, it’s so exciting. I said, we need to see something. Harvick done that to Ricky Rudd. Now, Ricky Rudds says You wouldn’t want to fool around with Ricky. But Harvick done that to Ricky Rudd at Richmond. He was driving the 28 car. I remember Harvick flying across like a stunt guy, but the other one was, uh, Jack Sprague.

We was at Bristol ish. Cost me race. He was a lap car in the way, you know, I mean, I have less than three laps to go. I gotta just bumped and moved him up the racetrack, right? He comes running down the pit wall and I went, come on. I said, ’cause he knows he can’t come over here. Really? Didn’t do nothing wrong.

Well, then they called me in the [01:14:00] holler and, and, and I said to him, I says, well, I wasn’t gonna punch him. I said, because he’s too small. I said, that wouldn’t be fair. I says, obviously can’t talk to him about it. Which I wouldn’t, ’cause it’s not fair, you know, to have a fight for no reason. Banny Rooster, I, I would’ve to say that.

One of my favorite, I remember I was doing a TV show and oh my, my guy Taylor, look, he loved me. Ben was a good guy. And he goes, Spence, he said, I’m waiting to get Harvick and smoke on. I said, well, I’ll take care of it. So we’re poking them. And that was after Indianapolis when Tony won the race and Harper got together and they were really good friends and I was good friends with to, I was good friends with all of ’em.

So Dave Burns is waiting there and he’s, you know, I’m new to TV and I come over and the girl goes, Hey, we’re gonna have him on at this time. I says, I says, gimme five minutes. Yeah, he says, I’ll be back. So s is waiting there with the mic. You know, I, I got like 10 minutes and we’re going off the air ’cause they were coming on the air at five after one or whatever it was for live.

Music: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: I said, oh hell. I says, it’s 10 up. We got plenty of time. So I says, Teddy, I won live. I says, Teddy, I [01:15:00] got him. Come here. Heart comes over from my right talking and I see Tony coming. I go Smoke. Get your ass over here. So I put ’em together and we’re talking. I says, explain to the fans out there. There’s no hard feelings.

What happened? It was racing. We cut, I got the mic and them two sons of bitches pushed me over the guardrail on my, on tv. The both of, I’m sitting there and they push me over. The penny will always show that shot. So afterwards, Dave Burns comes over and he says, you ever do that again? I’ll have your job.

Woo. I said, I’m scared. I said, let me tell you something, birds. I said, when you can draw as many fans as we can on a Sunday morning, then you can tell me I can have my job. But I says, until you catch two and a half million people watching this show, I ain’t got nothing to worry about. And that’s what the stories I did, because I was, and, and they would trust me.

Roger Penske would tell me stuff, Richard Childress, you couldn’t take it to the air. And Teddy would be upset. I knew that Kurt Bush was fired and Teddy begged me three weeks earlier, he says, tell him, tell him. I says, Teddy, I cannot do that. I said, I cannot tell you that Kurt Bush was fired because I [01:16:00] says that was nce between me and Jack.

And he, he’s like, I don’t blame you. We knew what was going on and a lot of stuff. And they just wanted to vent themselves, but they wanted to trust you too. They had to be able to talk about their crew chiefs or whatever. ’cause they couldn’t talk to nobody else ’cause they could explain it to you.

Dave Hare: That was the trust factor.

Jimmy Spencer: A lot of trust.

Dave Hare: Yeah. I wanna go back to your trips to Victory Lane. Talk about the win over Ernie Irvin at Daytona. Those last five laps or so. Man, you. Wow, you were setting him up, checking your options.

Jimmy Spencer: Well, the cars were, were real equal and all day long. I kept telling Junior, I said, junior, I can’t quite hold it wide open.

Dave Hare: 27th at this point. Yeah.

Jimmy Spencer: I was in the 27th and Ernie was in the 28 and I said, the only way you can hold it wide open is if you get in front of him. Because it’s, when I’m in front, I can hold it wide open and Junior says, okay. He says, well, I’ll take care of it. So the last pit stop Junior says to Mike Hill, put a little more spoiler in it.

Just put a little more spoiler in it so that’ll not lift. So then I knew that I, could I not lift? Then I was falling and I trying to figure out how to get by him, and we had mirrors. You could just [01:17:00] see the guy’s eyes in the mirror. When you watch these quarterbacks like Mahomes, it’s incredible to watch the closeups of the quarterbacks when they got their helmet there, but they’re looking to the right.

It’s amazing the perception. NASCAR’s no dip. You’re looking in the car and you can see it and you can see his eyes, you know, so natural. Sure. You go radio silent. The last few laps in the race, every driver just wants to be quiet. You gotta hit your marks, hit your marks. You don’t need to tell me to hit my marks.

I know what I gotta do. Shut the hell up. And that’s the biggest thing. They just kept watching them. I said, the only way I can get ’em but I gotta is somehow get along. So because you block and the blocks today, they don’t respect the blocks. That’s what causes the wrecks at Daytona and Talladega. I mean, they go to block, they just smash into one another.

Cause big wrecks, we didn’t do it. We had a little bit of class. If you blocked, you said, okay, if I get alongside of them, so you can’t really block me anymore. Then you gotta respect the guy. And then sometimes you eat the goose. Sometimes the goose eats you. No, that’s not how that goes.

Dave Hare: That’ll work for today.

Jimmy Spencer: Sometimes. How the hell does that work? [01:18:00] Sometimes.

Dave Hare: Sometimes it’ll get you the bug. The bug

Jimmy Spencer: anyway, unfortunately for the bug. But anyway, so then once I said, you know what, if I could get the timing right and I could get him in the corner where he can’t be looking in your mirror, he’ll lose me. Yeah. Bam. I go down and instead of going to the bottom of the racetrack with him, I shot that baby up to the top, holding it wide open.

And I knew he was looking. I could see him look and he’s like, oh shit. So he had to get to the top. Once he got back, then they had that little bit of room to get alongside of him, and then the two cars came. It was awesome. I mean, you know, but Ernie was a, a good friend. Ernie was a hell of a driver. He got hurt really bad twice.

That’s what took him out. Yeah. You know, his head injuries.

Dave Hare: That moved there. You came down off of two. Yep. And got under and they had a huge run. But then you get beside him getting into three and four and you guys are door to door off of four. How in the world did you hold it down there? Well, when you finally got, well,

Jimmy Spencer: you know, give Nie a lot of credit, both could wrecked.

I talked to David Pearson. God rest his soul. Loved him to death. But he wrecked Petty in 1976. [01:19:00] So I became good friends with them guys. Ernie could have done the same thing and turned me, who would’ve won? Who knows? But Ernie was racing for the championship. Ernie got hurt that year. Ernie had heard of Michigan that year and Ernie was leading points, so I didn’t know that at the time, but you gotta think about it.

And Miami Reynolds says, don’t forget the big picture. Don’t forget the big picture. I remember Pearson and Petty. I thought David Pearson was one of the greatest drivers, if not the greatest driver of all time, because I remember Junior Johnson telling me the stories. David Pearson was a silver fox. I was driving to Talladega with Buddy Baker and we’re going through Atlanta my first year, and I says, baker, he says, who’s probably one of the best drivers you drove against?

He says, I’ll tell you what buddy. He says, I’m gonna tell you the best driver. Well, I think ever lived your dad? He says, no, no, no. He, I That for Bud Moore, we were in Atlanta. I led majority of the race. We come in the second pit, stop, come back out. I’m almost ready to lap. Pearson never could lap him. Third pit stop, almost ready to lap.

Pearson never could lap him. Last pit [01:20:00] stop, come out first. Who’s second Pearson? He goes, got the cigarette in his hand. He’s waving to Buddy B. Said he had a mind game like no tomorrow. And he said he proceeded to beat me. Pearson was special, but Pearson knew that the Hemis, they had an advantage over the fours at the time.

When Pearson passed Petty, he says, damn, I screwed up because he says that son of a bitch ain’t gonna pass me to the last lap. The drivers know that was like 12 laps to go. Think back to this race, think back to Pearson telling you this story. The Pearson saying, I’m in trouble. So you’re plan it all along, plan it all along.

And he said, I realized that he wasn’t as good as I thought he was, but I knew what he was gonna do. He was gonna take a shot at getting underneath me. So when he got underneath me, he says, I knew that he had a lift. And he says, I kept giving him room, kept giving him room. And he says that son of a bitch wasn’t lifting Jimmy.

And he says, [01:21:00] gonna wreck me. And he says, no you’re not. He turned into it and he took Petty out. Petty got pushed across the line and Pearson won to 500. That to me is priceless. To hear David tell the story, he said, I knew I messed up so many times you could hear, and I just screwed up. And you remember those things.

I remember Richard Petty saying, never forgot the ones that I should have won. Those are the ones that bother you. They were great guys. Bobby, oh man, I these, these guys. Incredible.

Dave Hare: And that was half a car length wind there

Jimmy Spencer: for me with Ernie. Oh, it was close.

Dave Hare: If that

Jimmy Spencer: you see it today where there’s a couple only, the cars are so competitive, so equal.

It was a few inches. I didn’t know one. I mean he didn’t either. He congratulated me afterwards. But yeah, we bumped a couple times. But you try to side draft. And what he was trying to do is he kept pushing against me, trying to slow me down and I would keep turn off, try to break off. ’cause I knew it was gonna come down to just close.

Dave Hare: Wow. If you’re gonna win your first one, that’s the way to do it.

Jimmy Spencer: It was awesome. I should’ve won a lot more, but we were rocking him. Peter Guy was building the [01:22:00] motors. Robert Yates came, he’s dead and gone, but he come, he would always look at the cars and he looked at the motor and he, he said to Donny, he says, Donny, he says.

Them gator belts. The Goodyear belts are gonna turn in the race. He’s, I’m gonna send you down instead. The deco belts, I’ve had them turn on the dyno. They would run those motors for 500 miles on an endurance test on the dyno. Robert Yates would 500 miles on the dyno to know it, that it would break. I was a rocking when I was leading the damn race.

Erna ended up winning it. He ended up passing brick mast, the god dang thing, ran hot, turned the fan belt, cooked the motor, and another time I, I was loving to death. He’s no longer with his, Harold Elliot was Rusty Wallace’s Indian builder, and Harold Elliot worked for us and he built the motor at Bristol.

He said to me, he says, no idea why Travis has a spirit throttle linkage in that toolbox. And he, he tried to get Travis to put on a quarter inch highman, but it was actually a bike, a half inch aluminum, I guess you would call it Hexagon, T six.

Dave Hare: Okay.

Jimmy Spencer: On the throttle linkage. I was practicing Saturday afternoon [01:23:00] before the race, and Harry can’t come over.

And I told Travis, I says, Travis, I just don’t like the way it’s coming off of Ford. And Harry come over and he says, listen, that car’s good enough to win this race, Jimmy. I said, I told Harry what I’m doing, Harry. He says, Travis, do what you used to do to me. Travis went to that truck, got a Carrera shock.

Everybody’s got a bill seat, and he puts a, he says, go try that. He tried it. I says, wow, that thing fixed. It ran five lap. I pulled in. I says, Travis, I don’t know what the hell you done. I said, I fixed it. Let 200 and I don’t know how many laps getting ready to lap. Quickie fifth place. He says, you need to slow down.

I says, Travis, I did. And he goes, okay, well if you did to keep doing what you’re doing, I was running two tenths quicker, a lap than anybody on the track. The car was incredible. Same car I won with the, with junior. It was a banjo front steer, rear steer, front clip with a front steer. It was incredible, incredible car.

It would go through the corners. And I was explaining to Barry Klein, I said, the car would never, the Campbell wouldn’t change in the cast area, you know, there caster gain or nothing. So whatever you had, it was gonna stay. And once you adjust to the car, the fuel, no matter what, it would stay the same. It was incredible.

Made a pit stop [01:24:00] and come back out on the pitch leading the race. And I says, Travis, I says, the gas PO just went to the floor. Travis Carter’s never won the curse. And he says, don’t you F with me, Jimmy. I says, Travis, I’m telling you that’s what’s wrong with it. The throttle linkage broke. That was the biggest heartbreak I had it.

I wanted to win Bristol. So I won a couple times in the Bush car. I never won the. Kurt Costy, the one that put the 41 7 car, Tommy Baldwin Ram me outta gas, which just racing Dick’s car. Oh, did we have a car that night? In fact, Robert Gates bought the car from Dick Roso the following week. Highman broke today, the NASCAR engine builders, they don’t break the technology.

The sport has progressed so long, even in sprint cars, dirt late, anything. They don’t break. The guys have gotten so smart. We don’t have no bearing failures anymore. We don’t have hardly any piston failures, valve nothing. I mean, when they adjust the valves down, they don’t adjust ’em. They put shims underneath the push rod and the, the rocker arm.

I said there’s no nuts and bolts to break. I lost so many modified races when I was telling Barry would, Hutter, you used to loosen [01:25:00] the the poly lock and you tighten it down. If you tighten it down too much, it’ll crack. I remember I was at Richmond, man, that car was fast. I practiced. You always would be there early.

And I said to the kid, I said, what do you, I said to Tommy, I said, what is he doing? Trip said that he had one of the, no, the push rod wasn’t lined up to the rocker arm and it slipped out. I said, the motor’s gonna blow up and bent the valve. They said, you’re not a motor builder. I said, I’m telling you right now that I know what I’m talking about.

That push rod cocked that rocker arm and it bent the valve well for seven hours. They kept convincing me there was nothing gonna happen. Well guess who was leading a goddamn race but a hundred something laps to go and the motor blow up. Me and then they wanted to talk to me. I says, you just gonna all kiss my fat ass?

And I walked out and I mean, you just, you don’t forget I was gonna win. I had just won the third race in a row at freaking Richmond in the Bush series. I loved it. They said, well, how’d you know it was gonna happen, motor builder? I said, I damn. I know what happened About 10 years ago, we were at a Oswego, New York, and my brother Edward, was [01:26:00] adjusting the valves.

And I watched him, this thing slipped, and Bobby Jacobi said, eh, that wasn’t good. So Hunter comes and Hunter changes it. I says, and Hunter said it might’ve bent the valve. I said, let’s change the motor. I said, we got another one in there. No, he said it’ll be okay. Guess who was leading that race? And the motor blew up?

Well, it broke the rocker arm with about 10 laps to go. Me and I ended up finishing second because of it. You don’t forget the ones you lose just the way it is.

Dave Hare: Let me go one more question and then, uh, we’ll wrap things up. We’ll have, um, a couple questions from the crowd before we let you go here, but, you know, we talk a little bit about the technical end of NASCAR and big league racing.

How much cheating goes on. I, I heard Dale Jr. Say on one occasion, he said, I don’t think I’ve ever driven a legal car.

Jimmy Spencer: Oh, I he exaggerates for publicity. All right,

Dave Hare: fair enough.

Jimmy Spencer: I’m serious. I do not believe that there’s a lot of cheating going on in nascar. I believe there was years ago, I think in the last 20 years, there isn’t.

I remember when Junior Johnson would go to Wilkesboro, he always wondered why Terry Le Barney, whoever [01:27:00] drove junior’s car, Wilkesboro one, I saw the wheels of his shop. So what they did. Is they melted lead on the inside of the wheel around the interior of the wheel.

Music: Okay?

Jimmy Spencer: Then they would mount two tires.

Well, the first couple times they let ’em get away of both tire changes, but then they come down and say, ah, something’s fishy. They went out. So then they got down to one. It was 130 pounds of lead in that fricking wheel, and Shorty Edwards, they pushed the car through tech, get it weighed. They would say, ah shit, we got a leak in that tire.

Well, nascar, well you can change the tire. And they were nascar, never smart enough to check it. And they would roll that tire back and take two men and a truck to lift that damn thing up and they proceeded to go on and win the race. Well, hell, they’re 120 pounds later. This is the cheating. That was funny.

They had a guy named Bud Green weighed about 130 pounds, a 1 35 pounds short hell of a farmer. He was junior’s main hog man. He would take care of the cattle and everything else. Now Bud was a pretty short guy and Fri Tim Brewer would slide that son of [01:28:00] a bitch in the trunk of the car. They would lift the trunk up and they’d roll his ass in the damn trunk of the car.

He would rule out of the car and they’d hurry up, put a hanky on his thing. Somebody said that You need to watch that. So Dick Beaty, God dressed his soul. He was, they was at Wilkesboro or somewhere. They’re rolling the car around the back and Dick’s over there by the ambulance and he’s standing there and he’s watching and he goes, he more five.

And they’d go by the ambulance and he goes, what did. Six. Okay. He comes over, stop. He goes. Now boys, there was five yous. When you come around that ambulance, now there’s six. And Brewer, Dick, you need a goddamn pair of glasses. Dick says. You might be goddamn right, but right now you’re gonna goddamn pull that car in and we weigh it and we weighed it was 135 pounds light and goes to brew.

You ever do that to me again? You’re gone. That was the stuff, you know, they used to put [01:29:00] wax when they p and g demo motors, they don’t do that stuff anymore. They used to cheat on the bodies a lot. You know, cheaters get caught one way or the other. I won’t deny it. We were at Daytona and uh, I was driving my own car and David McKay, he was a pretty smart guy and he raised bull semen and he would freeze it in liquid nitrogen.

So we were sitting there one day and he goes, got me an idea. He says, I believe I could freeze two of those shocks to hold that car up an inch. And when it haws out. It’ll drop an inch. I says, uh, Richard, if you could do that, I kicked their ass. He said, okay, well we’ll try it. So they played with it for about two weeks in that garage.

They finally figured it out. So NASCAR caught it. Okay? We knew that the car had to be 38 inches or whatever the height of the quarter panel was, 34 and a half, whatever it was on the right rear quarter panel. And then he had one inch difference, and the right rear was high. We would never want to be high because it’s disadvantage.

So they’re rolling that car through [01:30:00] tech, and Billy Kerrwood said the CR that comes over and he goes, Billy, your car’s like a eight three sixteen’s high, Billy. He says, oh, Jesus Christ. He says, you know, Jimmy, if I touch a jack bolt on this car, he’ll fucking fire me. So Fisher says, well, I think you should lower it.

He says, no. He says, he told me, do not touch that car. He says, well, I’m just telling you, you got a disadvantage. I didn’t know what happened. You know, we’re going through driver intros and I come walking over and they’re sitting there and I keep staring at the car. I’m like, okay. What do you think? Uh, David says, I might have left him in a little too long.

Him, he said. Okay, what can I expect? He says, oh boy. He says, well, they won’t break, but he says, oh, you’re gonna have a hell of a a chop to it, you know? Alright. So I decided that I could wreck it’s bouncing and I went, oh boy. So I said, but go to the rear of the field. So I went to the last place. I kept trying, I said, boy, I hope the heat heated up and luck would have it.

They had us go one more pay lap and we got it and they said, oh, they’re fine now. And, but I went to the lead and I was gonna win that race. And [01:31:00] my t and l motor blowed up. So there you go. And that car was so fast. And then we went to Daytona. I said illegal as could be. I was a hundred percent legal. ’cause my mom always said, if you cheat it, you get caught somehow.

And that was the truth. That is a good example. When we cheated that car, it didn’t win. But anyway, so we went through tech, everything. The car is so fast. I spent a lot of money newly put the body on the whole nine yards. We’re leading the race at Daytona. I come on the radio and they said there’s a caution with like 55 laps to go or whatever.

And I said to the crew, I said, they said, what do you wanna do? And I said, well, I don’t want to pit if we don’t have to. I said, okay, if we pick, can we make it to the end of the race? And they said, no you can’t. I said, we gotta pin again, no matter what they said. Yeah. I said We don’t need tires. I says, why get back like Bobby Allison taught me.

Why get back in the rattlesnake pit? So I stayed out front leading the race. Well I led the race all the way up to 90, 91 laps. It was 120 lap race. Well they had to start pitting around lap 1 0 5 to one 10. I waited as long as I could, I could down pit road. I know I was running [01:32:00] 10 mile an hour slower than I was supposed to.

I had that thing. I was only caught on pit road and I’m coming down pit road in first gear at 4,700 RPMs and it was supposed to be 5,700. I’m watching the thing. I pulled in. No tires fuel only ’cause you never wear tires out at Daytona. Come back out on the pit road, come back out a track and they said, post the car speeding.

So I wasn’t, Gary Nelson was up in the booth and he goes, Les, he wasn’t speeding. David Hoots said he wasn’t speeding. Les, the girl that I knew said they both said the same thing, but Les said you were speeding. And he says, I said, post the car. This is what was wrong with nascar. To a certain point that was his vendetta to get me.

If he post the car, I have to come down Pit Road. I come right out behind Dale Jarret and Grissom and Bechtel Corporation owned Grissom’s car. And one of Jared’s people come down and say, Hey, if you protect us, we’ll get you a set of tires. Well, buddy Parrot come down and Buddy says, gimme them radios said, buddy [01:33:00] Parrot puts the radios on.

He goes, Jimmy? I said, yeah, who’s this? He says, this is bp. What do you want, buddy? He said, make sure you, uh, push us to victory. You’re gonna take care of me, don’t you worry about it. So I, I knew then I was in good shape, so it was a lot more than a set of tires. So I says, tell Steve to get behind me. We’ll pass Jared with five laps to go.

So now here comes no. And all Les Richter on the radio, they could scan every one of us. Mr. Spencer, I don’t believe you need to be in that field of cars, the three cars. And I went, I, I, I can’t hear you. You got bad communication. He goes, I don’t believe you need to be in that field of cars. And the race was winding down.

And I, I said to Grissom, let’s go. And I said, on the radio, I take the lead, Grissom’s second, Jared’s third. ’cause Jared we’re going down the straightaway. Jared’s going. He knew. So we come in, I says, now listen to the spotter. I says, you tell Steve we’re going down the back straighter. I’m gonna go to the high site.

Go on win Ray. So he [01:34:00] did. I went in the next day, the Daytona 500. I was bitching to bill about it. And Bill says, well, we can get to the bottom of it. So we go in there, Les comes in and he says, yeah, I posted your ass. He’s, I told you I was gonna get you for what you said. At Bristol. And I’m like, what are you talking about day?

You know the whole, he’s, I told you we hold the black flag cost me the Daytona goodies 300. Never forgot. And they wonder why I couldn’t stand that son of a bay. And I told him I, I could never whip his ass. ’cause he was a professional football player. You got your ass stomped. Yeah. But they knew how to get back at you.

They, they would say there’s foam rubber coming out of a car, debris on the track. Denny Hammond always complains about that. You know so many stories you hear about, put it out. I remember Bill France would say, put it out because. You’d rather err on the side of caution than not, you know? Now they don’t even put a caution flag out.

And to me, I think that’s a mistake.

Dave Hare: Well, great insights. We certainly appreciate that. Jimmy, thank you for everything. We have a little bit of time here. Let’s, uh, see anyone has any questions for Jimmy?

Jimmy Spencer: Talk about, what the hell [01:35:00] would you bring that up for?

Well, I’ll explain it to you. I had the 70th year of Snap-on Tools on my truck. That was the 10th anniversary of the Craftsman Truck Series. Who would you want to win the race anyway? NASCAR has a line. That you go back to that line when the caution comes out, not the line that’s there. The last line at the caution light plus they have a timer and they have a timer stamp.

When that caution comes out, that timer stamps that caution. You can’t lie when that caution come out. I went by the start finish line under white flag, and then down the straightaway the caution came out. So I had already locked myself in. They went to the fourth turn camera to get the angle. This way of Bobby Hamilton passing me, congratulating me that I won the race and they said he won the race.

So I pulled in the victory lane because they said you won the race, which I did win the race, and somebody made a decision that I didn’t win the race. I don’t think [01:36:00] it would’ve been too bright for craftsmen to have a snap on truck, win the race. Plus he had a good excuse. You know, I sat in there and I says, first time I ever was backed outta Victory Lane.

And Hilton said to me, thanks for doing that afterwards. And I said, well, I’m getting paid by TV and stuff, and I know that if, if I would’ve done that, it could have fired me for what I was gonna say. But I said, you know what? You guys have effed me my whole life and you wonder why I’ve got a chip on my shoulder for it.

That’s the reason I said, Mike, show me the timestamp. They still, to this day won’t show you the timestamp of the caution and the position rest my case. But hey, what you, Hey, you know what, Bobby Hamilton, God rest his soul. He is in hand the good Lord, so he won the race. Another question

Dave Hare: for Jimmy. Yes, sir.

Jimmy Spencer: Jimmy admit you crashed. Wound up, down. Oh, Wally, Dolly. What did Wally’s Wally Dolly, what did the window that say to you? He wouldn’t put it down. He was driving for Bud Moore. I was running the third spot, and that dumb ass wrecked me. And he was five laps down. I was just mad. You know, it’s funny, that [01:37:00] Peterson guy that grabbed me on the back.

Yeah. I threw him off, you know, and I was going to drop him. And I realized, you know, he was watching Daytona 500 and died in his lounge chair. He was a good guy. All the officials. I had the utmost respect for him. You never would fight. Put an official, but Wally, you know, he knew I was pretty mad. I, I remember when Michael Waltrip done that to, uh, leg speed.

Yeah. You know, you’re gonna hurt yourself, but you’re like, you just, Paxton, how many times have you lost a race

Music: lot?

Jimmy Spencer: That’s what I’m getting at you. No, no, but that’s what I’m getting at you. And you, you’re, so how did that get away? And you’re just so tense up. Yeah. You gave what you’re like, what? Dang. You know, and you’re just so.

And you’re aggravated for not having a good finish. I mean, that’s, that’s the thing. I mean, wow. I, I, Bristol, I remember Prestol one time I was driving for Dick Morso. There was 12 laps to go. Morgan Shepherd wrecked me. He didn’t intentionally do it, it was just that he was out. And I’m like, cop dang, Morgan, what the, just slow the hell down.

He wrecked me. I [01:38:00] went to the car, give him peace of my mind and he was in there. Oh, think guy broke my shoulder and all, you know, looking for mercy. I said, you listen, you old son, you’re gonna pay for this deer. You just cost me Bristol with seven or eight laps to go in the race. The next day. The both wood brothers, the woodies, I call ’em, they come over.

I was driving Rosa’s Cup car. They come over and they said, Mr. Excitement, will you do, will you do us a favor? I said, boys, I’m not messing with your car. I got too much respect for you guys. You got my word. But if he messes with me tonight, I’ll park his possess in the fifth bleacher and they say he will not do that.

He’s more concerned about what you’re gonna do tonight. He says, no, I’m not. And I outran him anyway. But you just had respect for one another

Dave Hare: for the folks in the back, on or off the track, if there’s one event you could change, what would that be?

Music: Hell,

Jimmy Spencer: uh, probably not having the jack break at Pocono when I was driving. Bobby Allison. We were gonna win that race, and the jack broke on the [01:39:00] last pit stop, and that haunted me. The olis were fantastic. I love Pocono. We were talking about Ru Well, I was there. I was at Pocono, and Mark Donahue was one of my heroes.

Won his first IndyCar race there. Mario. I used to, I wanted to drive Indy cars. Pocono was a special place. I went to Poconos and I’m, I’m saying, all right, I think I can get into pits. So as they were pushing the IndyCar in, I just put a rag in my back pocket and I pushed the car in with them and I’m over there and God dang, I wanted to meet AJ Fo.

And he hit the block. Number 14. He always was in the front pit row. And I said, well, I’ll just go in there and check it out. I’m over there and I’m looking at the car. He comes over and he bumps me. I go, oh, what’s up buddy? Holy shit, aj. He says, what are you doing there, buddy? I says, man, I says. These cars intrigue me.

I, I love Indy cars. I’m racing a little bit of dirt cars, but I love to run Indy cars. He goes, really? And I said, yeah. He said, they’re pretty cool. And I got the meeting. He said, well keep it [01:40:00] up. You know, you’re going the right route. And I, me and Tyson talked about that, about going dirt route, then going asphalt because I first started dirt.

And you look at Tony Stewart, you look at Jeff Gordon, you look at these guys that came from dirt to asphalt. They had better car control. And that, that means a lot. But Pocono is pretty special. I, uh, I never had a lot. I won token in the modified, but he never had the luck I needed in the cup car there.

You would pretty cool for you didn’t want it.

Dave Hare: Jimmy, you said you love Indy cars. Did you and Chip Asse have a

Jimmy Spencer: badge? Yeah. Chip at me a hundred bucks. I couldn’t fit in the Indy car.

Music: And he won.

Jimmy Spencer: No, I fit in it. I tested it. Kenny Brack was driving it and we went there for a target shoot and the guy’s still, his crew chief for Scott Dixon now.

And Chip goes, did this fat as in that car. And the guy goes, yeah. He says, okay, now I have to let him on the track. Uh, court said that I could go on the track and Kenny Brack told me what I had to do and I said, I don’t wanna wreck the car because they’re very easy to wreck. You’ve actually felt the down [01:41:00] force about 70, 80 mile an hour.

And he told me where to go. So I got in the car, they made all the adjustments. Bill Fran sent me a picture. Oh man, it was funny. I had a lot of publicity at that one, but I actually drove the Indy car at Seabring in Florida and I got it up to where I was three and a half seconds slower than they were.

Tony Glover comes over and he goes, Spence. What adjustments do we need to make? And I knew he was having fun. And I says, take this helmet, put it in there, and put another helmet on somebody that knows what the hell they’re doing. Because I, I, I knew that it, it’s not the car, it’s the driver. But I says, Tony, how much time do I have to make up?

He goes, I think 3.9 seconds. I says, 39 hundreds of a second. I can make that up. He says, no, 3.9 seconds. I said, I don’t think I can make that up. Jimmy Johnson found that out. There’s a lot to those Indy cars. There’s a lot to a sprint car. I mean, every, oh, you just get in there and you turn it and you hold the son of a bitch [01:42:00] wide open.

No, I drove a spare car one time. There’s a lot to him. They’re more than people realize. You just don’t sit ’em in there and hold ’em wide open and go around the racetrack. You better know what you’re doing.

Lynn Paxton: Now we’re gonna have Spencer back and the next time we’re gonna take

Dave Hare: you got time for two more questions. If given the opportunity, would you accept an offer to run the SRX tour?

Jimmy Spencer: I had an offer, no, I don’t want to do it. Last time I drove a car was in Canada, finished third, and if I would listen to the damn crew chief, I probably would’ve won. Hardheaded me.

Dave Hare: You’re not supposed to listen to the crew chief, you said?

Jimmy Spencer: No, I didn’t say that. I said, when the crew chief tells you how to drive the car, would you tell the crew chief what to do? That’s time for you to quit. Alright. No, I, I wouldn’t drive the SRX because I think that. I’d have to lose 40 pounds maybe, and I just don’t want my grandchildren to have those memories.

I think there’s a lot better things to do than race. If you wanna race [01:43:00] local and enjoy it, that’s fine, but if you wanna go cup racing, you’re gonna have to mortgage your house. Your mom and dad’s house. Your grandfather and your grandmother’s house and then you’re gonna have to tell ’em you’ll do anything you can for the next 10 years to pay for it.

Because what has happened to the NASCAR sport? I got in on talent. Dale Earner got in on talent and Rusty Wallace and you go down a list of drivers, you got the phone call because you could do it today. It’s not how good you are, it’s how damn much money can you bring me? And that sucks because there’s so many talented drivers out there that don’t not ever get a shot.

There’s some people out there driving that they cannot ever be as good as some of the guys that are out there. They’re not gonna get the brakes, unfortunately.

Dave Hare: Alright, final question, Joe. For the same race

Jimmy Spencer: I kicked his ass.

First year race in the port world, I was leading the race. I, I didn’t win. I was going for my first ever win. I think he needed five [01:44:00] feet and I left four feet, eight inches. And he, he moved you over? He moved me over. And I said, son of a bitch, dad. And he ended up beating me. I got second, this is like my fifth or sixth race of the year now.

I had a good car ’cause my own man could set the cars up and it was a Barry Klein dance car. I proceeded to ignore him. I wouldn’t talk to him for about three or four weeks. Mom said this gotta stop. We were eating supper one night. She said, this has gotta stop. I said, your son of a bitch, dad. Why did you do that to me?

And he goes. I didn’t do nothing anybody else wouldn’t do. He goes, how much room did you leave me? And I said, you’re right. I left you too much room. He said, you just drove in a little too far. You got the car tailing in the middle of one and two. And he got up underneath me. I did race against him. I did win my first race against him.

That Jimmy Nave deal. I knew it was time to move on. I didn’t wanna race against my dad and I didn’t want, he didn’t want me. To do what he did for [01:45:00] 25 or 30 years. But I remember one time he wanted to run a modified, Tim Richard was one of the best drivers you can imagine. The promoter at Shangrila, the promoter says to me, he says, I know you bring two cars to track.

I wanna run a car for Tim. Richard. So I said Okay, made a deal with him and Tim Richmond comes in, both cars are sitting there and my brother Eddie, Tim goes, what’s that car? And he says, well, the last time he was out with that car, I think he wanted Thompson. And he goes, what about that car? He says He won with this car last week.

He goes, that’s the one I want. Okay. I gave that car to Tim and talking about a driver knowing more than the crew chief. So we go out and we’re racing. Tim kept telling him, he says, you need to free that car up. And Ed says, Tim, you don’t need no more stagger. He goes, gimme a quarter inch more stagger. And he says, Jimmy will kick your ass.

He’ll give you a quarter inch more stagger he so I can hang onto it. So it was a 50 lap race, Tim got out in front of me. We had good cars, Tim. He got ahead of me on the one restart and he takes the lead. I says, it could be hard to beat him. And all at once, [01:46:00] I’m watching a Goodyear Tire on the asphalt.

They would, they would wafer the inside edge, the outside edges. He had too much stagger and I had open face. Somehow I could see it. And I saw I got him now, and sure enough, I bumped him a little bit, my own car, and I ended up passing him and, and beating him. So the following week my dad says, you can’t do that to me.

So. I said, dad, you could drive that car. So dad drives it. He starts in the back. We’re out there racing. It was a, it was a hundred lapper, I think, and my dad was up in age, man. He pulls in the pits. Ed says, dad, what the hell did you pull in for? He said, I got a bad vibration. There’s a bad vibration in it.

After the race was over, I ended up, I ended up winning race. I said, dad, what happened? He says, I wasn’t gonna let you lap me. You think I’m stupid?

Oh my God. Oh, oh. They all liked my dad. My dad was a character. He was a good man.

Dave Hare: Classic.

Jimmy Spencer: My dad [01:47:00] drove sprint cars. They weren’t sprint cars. Lynn, what the hell would they call? They were super modern, super mods and you know. But anyway, so my dad was back in the sixties, I was, I would’ve been 19 61, 62. I think my sister was born in 61.

My dad was driving for what? You weres. Who was the guy that drove your cars? Emrick. Mr. Emrick had a lot of money and he wanted his cars to look nice. Yeah, well, dad drove for two brothers up near Pitton, Pennsylvania that had coops that they were winning. All my dad won lots of races for him. They had two full-time mechanics, Paxton, two full-time mechanics working on my dad’s car.

So they said, ed, we we want to go to Indy. And Dad says, yeah, I’ll go to Indy. They go to Indy and he takes all the tests that he’s supposed to and everything, and I guess it was about 61 or 62 that killed a bunch of guys. Which is normal. Dad sat there and the next day he was supposed to go on the track.

The Chevy dealer said, ed, what are you thinking? He goes, man, guys. He said, I think I can do it. In fact, I know I can do it, but I got Fran at home with seven kids and I got a big [01:48:00] business and if something happens to me, who’s gonna run it? That right there stopped my dad from going to IndyCar racing because of what happened.

He was always so supportive of me and my NASCAR Cup series because I know my dad could have made it. A lot of these guys are, I know these guys could have run Richie Evans. I guarantee you a Paxton. We saw Dave bla. There’s so many guys that could have ran the Cup series, but the problem was they weren’t making no more money than you guys were making in the days.

They weren’t making as much. They weren’t making as much. Paxton, you’re a hundred percent right. You could make more money. I remember Richie Evans telling me that he made more money than they were. Won in the Cup races. The only thing that made the Cup Series more popular was if you look back at the sixties, the cup race, you were lucky to get $400 to start a race and he only won 10 or 15,000.

And I remember winning some modified races in the eighties that paid 15, 18,000 to 100 lap, 200 lap races, and now they’re not even [01:49:00] paying three or 4,000. But to me it was a big disparity and I think there were so many good racers in the sixties and seventies that didn’t race. And then you had to go up against Richard Petty who was backed by Chrysler.

Plymouth Dodge. I mean that that’s what made Holman Moody what they were. Holman Moony could beat the Petty, especially with Pearson. I remember Junior Johnson telling me that if Bobby Allison would’ve stayed with me in 1972, Richard Petty would not have seven championships. But Bobby Allison, I love him to death.

He wanted half. The Dean of sponsorship money from Coca-Cola Junior told me that story of his own mouth. And Bobby didn’t do it. But you look at who won all his kale, won a championship. Darryl Walham, bill Elliott, you didn’t go down. The people that won championships for Junior, he was pretty special. But those guys, bud Moore, they had cliques.

The wood brothers. But they all knew they needed money to race. That’s how they survived. And it was all sponsorship money really. It wasn’t the winnings.

Dave Hare: So how does the driver come up with, with their number in your family? You had the [01:50:00] 24 for years, you and your dad.

Jimmy Spencer: You know, my dad would come up with 24.

I wanted 24, and they wouldn’t take it. Then they gave it to Jeff Gordon. My dad used to own a gas station, and at the time gas was mostly 16, 17, 18 cents a gallon. He never was over 20 cents. And it was never under 15 cents. And that’s why we used the two and four. That’s the truth. And there’s a lady, somebody has a picture from Langhorn and there’s a white 24.

Those are gas station numbers on my attached car. 24. Yes. That’s gas station numbers. And that’s how we got 24. And you look through my whole career, I was 24. 24 junior.

Dave Hare: That’s beautiful.

Jimmy Spencer: That’s how you added Amazing,

Dave Hare: perfect sense.

Jimmy Spencer: How did you get one? Paxton?

Lynn Paxton: You used to paint.

Dave Hare: You asked

Jimmy Spencer: why know It’s Paxton.

Dave Hare: Yeah.

Jimmy Spencer: Why? Why one and one a? Well, one A was for Alan Allen. Yeah. Allen. And then one was for Paxton. Well,

Lynn Paxton: we started with one and [01:51:00] three, so that’s how it first started. We had a number one and Alan didn’t like that. Then we got one A and three ’cause Oman to drive

Jimmy Spencer: the hippie.

Wow. That’s how most of the guys took the numbers. The owners. Junior Johnson. 11 was the number baby. That was it. And Earnhardt. Always told me that he wanted the three because childs got the three. But he said that two when he won his first races and all that in three was always better than number two.

’cause it was always one better and And Earnhardt had that slanted three. I mean it was just, you know, that was a hell of a marriage. Him and childs good people.

Dave Hare: Well that’s a great way to end the day. Well, we appreciate everybody coming out today, Jimmy. It has been an incredible day. Thank you so much.

Applause.

Crew Chief Brad: We hope you enjoyed this journey through racing history and the personal stories that keep the spirit of motorsports alive. The Eastern Museum [01:52:00] of Motor Racing is a premier destination for motor racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts, and memorabilia. To learn more about the EMMR or to be a part of the next in-person Racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www dotr.org.

Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content. Until next time, keep the engines running and the memories alive.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motor Sports and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at [01:53:00] www.patreon.com/gt motorsports.

Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the episode.

Spencer credited his father, a fierce competitor with a fiery temper, for instilling toughness and discipline. He also remembered mentors like Barry Kleindienst and Gail Clark, whose mechanical expertise and insistence on precision shaped his approach to racing. “Gail wouldn’t even let you touch bearings with your fingers,” Spencer laughed. “That’s how serious he was.”

By the mid-1980s, Spencer was ready to chase NASCAR dreams. He recalled the challenges of moving south – different culture, different expectations – but also the opportunities. His break came in 1989 when Buddy Baker called with an offer to drive his Cup car. Spencer nearly hung up, thinking it was a prank. “If you’re Buddy Baker, I’m the President of the United States,” he joked. But the call was real, and Dover became the site of his first Cup start.

Mr. Excitement Lives On

Spencer’s nickname, “Mr. Excitement,” was born at Stafford Springs when he defied officials and thrilled fans with a daring comeback. It stuck, and so did his reputation for boldness. Over two decades, he became one of just 41 drivers to win in NASCAR’s Cup, Xfinity, and Truck Series. Later, he transitioned into broadcasting, bringing the same unfiltered energy to television.

At the Racers Roundtable, Spencer’s anecdotes flowed effortlessly – —about Richie Evans, Michael Waltrip’s Bristol crash, and even Ernest Borgnine taping a lucky charm to his dash before a Vegas win. Each story underscored the joy, danger, and unpredictability of racing life. “It’s illegal to have this much fun,” Spencer quipped, recalling nights of chaos and camaraderie.

Jimmy Spencer’s visit to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing wasn’t just a trip down memory lane – it was a reminder of why motorsport history matters. His tales blended triumph and tragedy, humor and humility, showing that behind every checkered flag lies a web of friendships, rivalries, and unforgettable moments. For fans, racers, and historians alike, “Mr. Excitement” proved that racing’s greatest legacy is its people.

About the EMMR

The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premiere destination for motor racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing cars, artifacts and memorabilia.

Each roundtable brings together voices from across the motorsports world, from grassroots heroes to seasoned veterans, as they share stories, insights, and behind-the-scenes tales that shaped their racing journeys. Whether you’re a die-hard fan of dirt tracks, drag strips, or open-wheel icons, the Racers Roundtable is your seat at the table for candid conversations and timeless memories from those who lived it.

To learn more about the EMMR, or to take part of the next in-person Racers Roundtable, you can plan your visit, or support the museum’s mission to preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www.EMMR.org. Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming events, and exclusive content.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Copyright Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. This episode was recorded in front of a live audience at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. This content in this episode has been remastered and published with the EMMRs consent; and has been reproduced as part of the Motoring Podcast Network and can be found everywhere you stream, download or listen to podcasts!

B/F: The Drive Thru #64

Drive Thru News

Tania M

-

January 27, 2026

0

In the 64th episode of Break/Fix’s, Drive Thru News, our hosts provide a comprehensive winter recap of the automotive industry, covering dramatic changes, new car releases, and motorsports updates. They discuss the EU relaxing its 2035 combustion engine ban, Ford’s mixed EV strategy, and the Audi’s new diesel-hybrid. The team also covers the 2026 Mecum Kissimmee auction, including rich people’s extravagant car purchases, and a humorous personal encounter at a Circle K.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Showcase: The Winter Recap Episode!

Mecum Kissimmee: Inside the Bachman Collection Play‑By‑Play

Our review of Mecum Kissimmee 2026 ... [READ MORE]

A visit to the Revs Institute

There's a first time for everything... ... [READ MORE]

Ferrari 250 GT 3729 GT Sold On-Block at Mecum Kissimmee for USD $35 Million

... [READ MORE]

Looking Back at Mecum’s 2026 Kissimmee Event

... [READ MORE]

Help Us Turn a Ford Focus Into a Force for ADHD Awareness

Most people look at a 2015 Ford Focus hatchback and think, “That’s a practical commuter car.” We looked at it and thought, “What if we drove this thing … in a race… with hundreds of other lunatics… to raise awareness for ADHD?” ... [READ MORE]

“Highway to Hell” – A Campy Ride Through Cinematic Chaos

We crossover with Steve & Izzy from Everything I Learned from Movies to review 1991's "Highway to Hell" ... [READ MORE]

**All photos and articles are dynamically aggregated from the source; click on the image or link to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors, publishers or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.

Show notes & Supporting Stories

For a list of all the articles and events referenced on this episode check out the show notes below.

EVs & Concepts

Changes came to Jaguar this winter...

Formula One

Japanese & JDM

New Genesis G90 Magma Wingback is the Hotness!

Motorsports

Changes coming to Le Mans' famous "Dunlop" Bridge & Curve

Stellantis

Jeep Is Selling a V8 Wrangler for $70,000 but You Have To Be a Veteran or Active Military To Buy It

The Pacific-at is done!

Tesla

The Tesla Cybertruck Had the Biggest Sales Crash of Any EV in 2025

VAG & Porsche

Karmann Hairdresser: The One off Corrado Convertible

Would you like fries with that?

Florida Man ... up to some mischief at a Circle K bathroom

Behind the Scenes

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

TRANSCRIPT

Executive Producer Tania: [00:00:00] Welcome to Break Fixes, Drive-Through News, your monthly recap for everything fast, fascinating, and usually four wheeled. We’re serving up a fresh batch of automotive headlines, motorsports madness, and car adjacent curiosities, all with zero wait time and maximum flavor from Formula One. Drama to concept car debuts with garage built legends.

To the quirkiest stories rolling out of the state of Florida. We’ve got your fix. So grab your coffee, buckle up, and let’s cruise through the latest in the world of wheels with a side of entertainment and just a dash of tire smoke.

Crew Chief Brad: Hi guys.

Crew Chief Eric: Hi, Brad. What’s up?

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. When was the last time we did one of these? Feels like it’s been a while.

Crew Chief Eric: October. What

Crew Chief Brad: we didn’t, when did we? We, I thought we did one in November.

Crew Chief Eric: No, because November is always the holiday special. Last year we did the game show and all that stuff, and then we do the holiday gift exchange and all that.

And then December was the Formula One retrospective.

Crew Chief Brad: Right.

Crew Chief Eric: So this is the winter recap. We get [00:01:00] to talk about everything that happened since October, basically when we went into hibernation.

Crew Chief Brad: So you mean it’s gonna be a really short episode?

Crew Chief Eric: I mean,

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t think anything really happened

Crew Chief Eric: with the absence of Formula One in the episode.

Yeah, everybody gets back half an hour of their day.

Crew Chief Brad: Lucky them. Welcome to drive through episode number 64,

Crew Chief Eric: our 64th drive through episode. Can you believe it?

Crew Chief Brad: No,

Crew Chief Eric: we’ve only skipped two in the entirety of break fix. We’ve only skipped two drive-through episodes. Can you believe that?

Crew Chief Brad: Uh, no.

Crew Chief Eric: You don’t listen anyway.

So the difference is

Crew Chief Brad: so, so, so you have only skipped two. I’ve skipped a couple because I popped out babies and all that good

Crew Chief Eric: stuff. Oh, that’s true. Yeah, that’s true. So

Crew Chief Brad: I’ve skipped a lot more than two.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s very true. We did have some fill-ins there over time. So mad shout out to our guest hosts that have come on in the past to fill in your size.

13 loafers.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes, my loafers.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you get anything good for Christmas?

Crew Chief Brad: I didn’t get anything for Christmas.

Crew Chief Eric: What

Crew Chief Brad: you can imagine. Why.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, well, yeah, I, I [00:02:00] can’t, I mean,

Crew Chief Brad: so yeah, I, yeah, literally I got nothing.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, I got car parts delivered to the house for Christmas, but they’re yours, so Does that really count?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I bought myself stuff for Christmas. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we’ll get into that Winter recap. Traditionally, we look back over the months that we haven’t been recording the drive through and kind of see what’s been going on in the automotive industry. ’cause it’s a slow time of year. Even though, as I constantly remind you, the beginning of the sales cycle is September.

So if we are now almost like halfway through the sales year at this point, nothing’s really going on. But there have been some significant changes and maybe some backpedaling, we’ll call it that in the automotive industry during the winter months, Instagram posts from the car News network, sort of by way of BMW, the EU officially kills the 2035 combustion engine ban.

Clickbait or is there some truth to this?

Executive Producer Tania: [00:03:00] That’s not exactly what they’re doing. They’re relaxing the requirement that by 2035 propulsion system is a hundred percent clean and they’re relaxing at 90%. So you have a 10% window there to pollute. So you still have to have a really efficient ice engine, or it’s a hybrid.

Basically, and you’re using very little fuel, so it’s not clear cut that, oh, EVs are out and we’re just going right back to gas guzzling four cylinders in Europe. Right? Right. So I think it’s more nuanced than that.

Crew Chief Eric: I think there’s an ounce of credibility to at least this sentiment that governments around the world are rolling back.

The hard and fast mandates that we were gonna go all electric by, you know, 2027 by 2029, and the dial kept moving towards 11. Right? So 20, 35. And now we’re walking back from that. And one of the things that I think resonates with what I saw from Cars News Network is Jim Farley, the CEO of [00:04:00] Ford, put out a statement and inside of there, there was a paragraph that I pulled out and I’ll, I’ll read it for you.

It says, Ford CEO, Jim Farley was inspired to lead an overhaul of the automaker’s electric vehicle strategy after examining rival EVs. And on a recent podcast, Jim Farley said he came down to the shocking. Quote unquote realization that Ford needed a major company reset after tearing down Tesla and the Chinese EVs, and noticing how much less electrical wiring they required, yada, yada, yada.

And despite a recent EV slowdown in the us, Farley believes EV innovation remains vital globally. However, in that same breath, yeah, yeah. EVs are great and wonderful. It continues on. The one line that you pull out of that is Ford is considering scrapping its electric F-150 pickup, which means the lightning is gone.

Mach E sales are down. I mean, obviously there’s all the controversy over Mustang Mach e, Mach E, what is it really called? Who cares what it’s called? Right.

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t know if that’s really controversy. That’s just us going back and forth, like [00:05:00] boomers about badge engineering.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, enthusiasts aren’t happy about it, but, but the real thing is the sales numbers of Mach E, they were okay.

They weren’t great, but the F-150 lightning, as we know, that kept getting its truck bed handed to it in every competition it was put in. Sometimes it would pull ahead of like a cyber truck or whatever, you know, one of the other electric EVs that’s out there, but it’s not what people want. Right? And the whole farce of it can charge itself.

You remember that whole thing and you’re like, it doesn’t surprise me in a world of a hundred thousand dollars pickup trucks that the F-150 lightning is not something that people want.

Crew Chief Brad: I thought we’d been talking about manufacturers backtracking on the. Full ev thing for like the last year though.

That’s not something that’s new. Yeah, it’s

Executive Producer Tania: not new. And a lot of it has to do with the tax credit, incentives, whatever, for purchasing ’em being erased.

Crew Chief Brad: Right.

Executive Producer Tania: Suddenly people don’t wanna buy ’em anymore, which I’m like, how much was this incentive? Really? It’s not like they were free. They were still really expensive.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Overly expensive. Well, [00:06:00]

Crew Chief Eric: relief might be in sight, and I feel like I’m being partially vindicated here in some ways. I’ve been arguing for six years now that we needed to borrow 40-year-old trained technology and come up with a better hybrid system than the hybrid that we’re using. And we saw inklings of this in the past.

If you guys remember, Audi had built that two liter turbo generator system on one other Decar prototype things, and it ran it like 9 billion RPM to make electricity to power the electrical system. One of their e-tron prototypes or whatever. Well, that. Is sort of the way people are starting to lean in the market now you’re seeing more reports of we should use gas and diesel as a generator to create electricity and we can double and triple the range of these electric vehicles with like a one cylinder gas power generator.

I mean, they’re gonna be bigger than that, right? They’re gonna be four cylinders, more than likely, stuff like that. But I found it funny. There was an article from the Audi Club and I just started singing Diesel’s back, back [00:07:00] again. Diesel’s back because TDI hybrid Audi launching the next generation V six diesel for its Q five and its a six series.

So Dieselgate on the end of the world, diesels are back, baby.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, not here though.

Crew Chief Eric: Not yet. It’s only a matter of time.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm.

Executive Producer Tania: All they have to do is make them actually cleaner without cheating.

Crew Chief Eric: And as a generator, they can do that because it’s basically idling and they can come up with all sorts of exhaust, gas recirculation, catalytic, combustion incineration process to make it super clean and emit, you know, wafts of rat breath out the back or something.

I don’t know. But the point is, in my mind, diesel electric hybrid, as I’ve been saying, makes way more sense. And I know big oil doesn’t wanna hear that because they wanna sell more gasoline. Right?

Executive Producer Tania: Big oil sells diesel too,

Crew Chief Brad: at like $700 a gallon too.

Crew Chief Eric: But that’s just it. So is this gonna affect the price of diesel long term that, you know, we can get into all that [00:08:00] whole economic debate.

But the thing is, it makes more sense to have like a high torque, low rev diesel little generator than a gas motor that’s gotta run at, you know, 9,000 RPM to generate the same kilowatt hours that’s necessary to charge the system. So I’m really excited about this. I feel like it’s 10 years too late. Like we should have started at this point, not done the fully electric unicorn farts and you know, lithium powered everything.

Excited to see where this goes. Longer term.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: $150,000. Audi TDI.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you expect anything less? Meanwhile over at Jaguar, we talked about this car before. Remember the one that they officially showed at Pebble Beach this year, which had only been in like concept drawings and designs, and you’re like, man, did AI generate this car?

It looked like something out of Batman in the animated series. Super cartoony Jaguar. And then, you know, they went through the whole backlash with changing the logo and you know, Jaguar lost its weight and all this kind of thing. Well, as a [00:09:00] result of all the negative publicity from the Type zero zero concept, that cartoon Jaguar, I was just referencing, they fired Jerry McGovern after 20 years at Jaguar

Executive Producer Tania: who.

Crew Chief Brad: Exactly

Crew Chief Eric: if you’re in that circle, the circle of Land Rover, Jaguar, Tata, and all that kind of stuff. Apparently he’s designed some iconic models like the defender and and stuff like that, which are kind of cool, like if you like that sort of thing. They’re kind of cool, but that Jaguar type, double zero, whatever was just a step away from what anybody actually wanted.

The reason I bring up this Jaguar, and you guys are like, well, who cares? We know that thing’s ugly.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm-hmm. Not surprised he’s fired.

Crew Chief Eric: Have you seen the new A four sedan?

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, so Audi hired him.

Crew Chief Eric: Right.

Crew Chief Brad: The front end is very nineties alpha to me. The way the headlights go and the the square should be the, not a square, but

Executive Producer Tania: that’s trash.

Crew Chief Brad: [00:10:00] It looks like a Lego car.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks like the back end of a wide body IMSA car from the eighties. The Nissan Skyline silhouette with the box flares. Yeah, it looks like the back of that is on the front. I also immediately thought Chrysler 300.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh yeah, I get that.

Executive Producer Tania: This is a garbage scowl,

Crew Chief Eric: but this is the new design language.

All the Audis are gonna look like this now.

Executive Producer Tania: Then they’re all gonna look like trash.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. And they’re not going to sell and they’re gonna change it again to something worse. To

Executive Producer Tania: something worse. I mean, what is this like Bugatti front end? I mean that’s what it reminds me of.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t even think the grills were this square in the eighties.

Executive Producer Tania: No, because they were rectangles. Never was there a square grill

Crew Chief Eric: maybe in the auto union days of like 1932 or whatever.

Executive Producer Tania: Not even those. Those were like more oval.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s ugly.

Crew Chief Brad: The square grill’s from like a Mack truck.

Crew Chief Eric: You know Volkswagen owns man trucks, so maybe they’re just borrowing from their design department.

It kind of does look like a semi,

Crew Chief Brad: maybe somebody missed a meeting and they got Joe Blow from the blue collar division to come in and it was like, yeah, just throw a [00:11:00] square on the front there.

Crew Chief Eric: How is that aerodynamic?

Executive Producer Tania: I mean this straight up looks like you photoshopped and just said, let me cut a rectangle out of the front of like a regular A four and then let me just like copy and paste this image and just like put it on.

That’s what this rendering looks like.

Crew Chief Brad: To that point, do we know that this is actually what the car’s gonna look like?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, this is a still a concept, right? Yeah. So like all concepts, it could look nothing like this.

Crew Chief Brad: No. But like everything I see here says new A four rendering by motor one. Like this isn’t the concept car actually built by out?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, well then this is exactly what I said is some dude in Photoshop just copying and pasting chunks of something else onto

Crew Chief Brad: a

Executive Producer Tania: regular A four.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, exactly. This is non-New. This is clickbait.

Crew Chief Eric: No, but if you go back to the pictures of the concept C, which they linked to, it’s the same design language, Tanya’s point, they probably grafted the front end of that, onto the current a four body, you know, and kind of fix it up a little bit.

But the new car has this look to it with the square [00:12:00] grill and everything else. Mm-hmm. It just, it’s pretty terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: So Audi’s concept is in there. It’s the concept C.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: So motor one took, like I said, a screenshot of this. Change the color in Photoshop and put this on a regular A four and said, Ooh, we should make an A four.

Crew Chief Brad: Hey, let’s write an article about this.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks like trash though.

Crew Chief Brad: Let’s make this shit up and write article.

Executive Producer Tania: See, concept C doesn’t look good either.

Crew Chief Brad: No,

Executive Producer Tania: it actually looks better as this concept C.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, because

Executive Producer Tania: it’s proportions, but it’s still garbage.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, it looks better as a coop for one thing. And like to Tanya’s point, like the proportions and everything look better.

Audi in the concept C did a better job than Jake the intern at MO on when he did the Photoshop.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, moving right along, we have to introduce a whole bunch of new cars if we’re gonna pay for the Audi F1 program. So Volkswagen is lining up a new wave of models for 2026.

Crew Chief Brad: I feel like your logic is flawed.

Crew Chief Eric: Uh oh.

Crew Chief Brad: You don’t need to make new cars. You need to sell more cars. [00:13:00] I think that’s where they’re messing up.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, is that what it is?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. They can make all the cars they want. If they’re not selling ’em, they’re not making any money. Just make more cars that people want to actually buy. Top tip.

Crew Chief Eric: So to your point, scroll through this list of new Volkswagens.

There’s not a ton of them here. Are any of these appealing to you?

Executive Producer Tania: None of these are being sold in this country.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, but they’ll eventually make their way here, won’t they?

Executive Producer Tania: No.

Crew Chief Brad: 25 years.

Executive Producer Tania: No, nothing. This small is gonna come over here.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, but what about the ID era and the ID cross, which looked like the ID four and whatever the bigger one is than that.

Crew Chief Brad: Id declare none of these are coming here.

Executive Producer Tania: That was good.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna just say it. These have a very like BYD sort of look to them. Is that where we’re leaning now in terms of like, we need to copy them because they’re leading the market.

Crew Chief Brad: They have A what? A what? Look to ’em.

Crew Chief Eric: B-Y-D-B-Y.

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t know what that means.

The

Executive Producer Tania: Chinese EV maker.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. I thought you were saying like, bring your own design team. [00:14:00]

Crew Chief Eric: That’s what it stands for. I’m sure.

Executive Producer Tania: No, that was the motor one article.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring your own intern.

Crew Chief Eric: No, I will say we’re never gonna get whatever this. Polo thing is that’s at the top. I don’t even know what this thing’s called.

Maybe it’s the ID three or maybe it’s the smaller one. It doesn’t really matter. I do like this nineties. What was her name? Lisa Frank. Remember those folders? We had the Trapper Keepers and we had the Lisa Frank stuff.

Executive Producer Tania: This is the Hot Pink. Enough to be Lisa Frank. Sorry.

Crew Chief Eric: But it’s like a Harley Quinn thing though.

Did you notice the colors? It goes back to the mark three Harlequin. I think this is a cool livery.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: We may have to put an earmark on this and look at it more closely and study it for an upcoming project, which we’re gonna talk about later in the episode. But I, I really like this livery. It’s, it’s very chaotic.

It’s unfocused.

Crew Chief Brad: We are not gonna put this on pumpkin spice.

Crew Chief Eric: Definitely not.

Crew Chief Brad: All. What’s next?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we have a little bit of Stellan news. All right. I’m just gonna read the title here and get your guys’ opinion. This comes [00:15:00] from the drive. It says, Jeep is selling a V eight Wrangler for $70,000, but you have to be a veteran or active military to be able to buy it.

Executive Producer Tania: Stupid.

Crew Chief Eric: I, I don’t get this.

Crew Chief Brad: I just don’t understand why

Executive Producer Tania: you’d probably sell more if you didn’t have to be active military or a veteran.

Crew Chief Brad: I was gonna say, maybe this is a way just to show a little appreciation for the active military

Executive Producer Tania: at $70,000.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, there’s a, so one thing, it’s $70,000

Crew Chief Eric: starting

Crew Chief Brad: very, very expensive.

Like, so an infantry man’s not gonna be able to afford that shit. And then two, what this really is, is a publicity stunt.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re gonna sell more of the other Jeeps because people are gonna come in, oh, you guys are doing something great for the military. You know what I’m gonna, I’m gonna spend my money with you.

Crew Chief Eric: The Jeep Stir Commando.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, that’s a name for you. This jeepsters going commando.

Crew Chief Eric: It is. Have you seen these doors?

Crew Chief Brad: I, I have seen these doors.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. They might as well not even exist. Mm. That’s a lot of tubing. It’s not roll cagey enough.

Crew Chief Brad: This commando’s [00:16:00] got a lot of tubing. Well.

Executive Producer Tania: I also like how there’s seemingly the attachment for the spare tire on the trunk door.

Yet the tire’s in the trunk,

Crew Chief Eric: buddy. Hey, it’s got a Hemi. It’s got a Hemi. And did you realize that it has a Hemi?

Executive Producer Tania: And what are you doing with this wildly unstable, horribly handling vehicle with V eight in it,

Crew Chief Brad: you’re spending an additional $11,500 and adding a Whipple supercharger to it.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Now you have a Hellcat.

I mean,

Crew Chief Brad: come on now. Yes. Now you’ve got a Hellcat

Crew Chief Eric: boosted to 705 horsepower. Just two horsepower, shy of a Hellcat. Look at that.

Crew Chief Brad: Yep.

Executive Producer Tania: How many people are gonna take this off road? Gun it and crash it because,

Crew Chief Eric: well, they kind of have to because there’s no malls anymore. So there’s nowhere to drive your Jeep.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re gonna make 250 of ’em. And to Tanya’s point, I think they’re going to wreck 250 of ’em.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s a lot of No for [00:17:00] me here, dog,

Crew Chief Brad: it’s no for me. I don’t like the white wheels. Other than that, I think it’s cool. The thing is a marketing stunt, a publicity stunt, it’s not doing anything for anybody.

Crew Chief Eric: See, and this is where you and I differ.

I actually like the wheels. I don’t know why, but that’s like the most appealing part of this thing.

Crew Chief Brad: So I wonder if they’re gonna do like Tesla did and put a clause in the purchase agreement that you can’t turn around and flip it.

Crew Chief Eric: Ah, that’s probably true. Alright, the next one. I have been following this build for years and I am so excited that it’s finally done.

And when I saw this video, I had to share it with you guys. The Pacific Cat is done, the hell cat powered Pacifica is on the road and it is freaking awesome. This thing is amazing.

Crew Chief Brad: So that’s a minivan I would buy.

Crew Chief Eric: I sent this to my wife and I was like, so what do you think? And she’s like,

Crew Chief Brad: you’re insane.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, she just sighed. And then she’s like, no. And I’m like, damn. I will say [00:18:00] this, if I could put those wheels at that stance on my wife’s Pacifica, just that and the flares. Oh, it look amazing. Like, I like the body lines of the Pacifica. And that’s weird to say, ’cause it’s a van.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s just a big wagon.

Crew Chief Eric: It is, but it’s kind of sporty, right?

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: But it needs to be more sporty. And this is like extreme sports. This is X Games, 700 plus horsepower. Extreme, right? It’s like Harold and Kumar going through the seven 11 or the Circle K or whatever it was. Ah, this thing is aw, smoky burnouts in a minivan. I mean, does it get any better than that? Mm.

Crew Chief Brad: No,

Crew Chief Eric: that sound of that supercharger. Mm. That’s just delicious.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, since we’re speaking of Stellantis, I got an opportunity to rent yet another Stellantis product. So I gotta give you a little renter review here.

Crew Chief Brad: Why?

Crew Chief Eric: Guess what? I got to drive when I was down in Florida.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, oh, oh. Um, I don’t know.

Crew Chief Eric: Brand new

Crew Chief Brad: God start,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s like [00:19:00] 2016 brand new Grand Wagoner L. The only thing as big as that is the expedition. Max monstrosity.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm.

Crew Chief Eric: Third row with a trunk. Big enough for coffins. I mean, this thing is a yacht. It’s probably the biggest thing I’ve driven since the old Autocrossers Inc. Autocross van, if you remember that.

You know, 17 passenger church van.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Back in the day. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it either because it’s too big. It was too big in general parking, it was a nuisance. It didn’t fit in most parking spots. It was too long. Too wide, whatever. Driving it wasn’t really that different than my Jeep.

Mm-hmm. A lot of the creature comforts in my Jeep are there, but they’re now very much more digital. Everything is like super high gloss and behind the touchscreen. I mean, I have a touchscreen in my Jeep, 11 years old, but it’s much simpler. It’s more intuitive. The icons are bigger, they’re easier to determine.

Like I knew where everything sort of [00:20:00] needed to be, but it took a minute to orient myself Again, driving, it was like any other Stellantis product. It handled like any other Stellantis product to fit and finish was what I expected. Is it worth $150,000 MSRP? No. Is it as nice as my Jeep inside 10 years ago as a summit edition?

Yes. Is it nicer than the current Jeeps? Yes, but I’m gonna go back to, is it worth $150,000?

Crew Chief Brad: No, I feel like it’s probably worth 80.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: And the regular Wagoner is probably worth 45 or 50, and the Grand Cherokee should be in the 30 range. The Cherokee should be in the 20 range, and yeah. So on and so forth, down.

That’s not how car pricing works, unfortunately. Yeah. But that’s where I think these vehicles should be.

Crew Chief Eric: No, I, I agree with you. A thousand percent. And it wasn’t just a, you know, a round kissimmee type of thing with the wagoner, you know, dealing with stop and go traffic. We drove it long distances. Uh, and I’ll talk about this a little bit [00:21:00] more as we go along.

We started our trip in Fort Myers and Fort Myers to Orlandos three hours plus.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Despite it being big and bulky and cumbersome, it was super comfy. It was a nice place to be, especially with four people and luggage and everything else. You really were not pining for space in any way. It was, again, it was super comfortable.

And then after three hours in the truck, you got out and it’s like, huh. It wasn’t, it wasn’t even hateful. The seats are super comfortable. I will say the only thing that was really obnoxious was. A feature that I don’t have in any of my cars, which is the lane guidance assistance thing. And so the Wagoner is so big, it takes a while to sort of orient where the corners of it are, where the edges of it are, and it is wider than my Jeep, even though my Jeep’s kind of a big old hippopotamus going down the road.

I found myself maybe skirting the edge of the lane a little bit where the white line was not like going off on the shoulder and it would try to correct. And what it would do is it would bump the truck over, but because it was so big, it would bump over to the other line and it would bump it [00:22:00] back. So it was playing this like ping pong back and forth in the lane and the guys are like, are you okay?

And I’m like, watch, it’s doing it itself. And I would let go and it, you would just move it back and forth a couple of inches. This is so annoying. And I couldn’t figure out how to turn it off. And it was one of those features that I don’t think you could permanently disable it, or I had to dig 12 menu layers deep to figure that out.

I’m like, it’s a rental, I’m just gonna give it back after a couple days. I don’t wanna sit here and you know, that be the cause of somebody else’s problem, so I’ll just live with it. But you were always on the knife edge when you were driving it. It was pretty pronounced how it would bump the truck over.

When it thought you were going over the lane and it has these big flag mirrors too, so they’re already sticking out past the body and it doesn’t take much for those sensors to suddenly pick up the line when the mirror is sticking out 18 inches. Like most stellantis truck owners have their mirrors extended for no reason.

This is sort of the same thing from the factory and it, it just blew my mind. It was one of the most obnoxious things that I’ve ever encountered in a new car. [00:23:00]

Crew Chief Brad: You know, for that kind of money I would just save half of it and get a Yukon XL Denali.

Crew Chief Eric: Haven’t they been having engine problems with those though?

There’s recalls in those GMV eights and stuff.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, but they’ve, they’ve got it all sorted out now and basically if you’re within thresholds, they’ll just put a different viscosity oil in it or they’ll fix it and give you an extended warranty. ’cause they have all the parts and stuff now. So. Nice. What was it an issue where there was a shortage on parts and parts availability and they couldn’t get the trucks fixed and everything.

That’s all workeded itself out now.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s switch gears and talk about Asian cars.

Crew Chief Brad: What about Mercedes and BMW?

Crew Chief Eric: We did that last year. We’re done. Remember?

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, we don’t ever have to do it again.

Crew Chief Eric: No, never again. Like in another five years they’ll have changed the grills again or something.

Crew Chief Brad: Praise Lord, baby Jesus.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about Asian cars. I don’t know what changed in the Department of Transportation. If it’s our current administration, whatever, it doesn’t matter. But suddenly K [00:24:00] cars are coming to America.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, they’re super cute.

Crew Chief Brad: They’re accessories like chihuahuas and handbags,

Crew Chief Eric: they are. I mean, you could fit these K cars in your purse,

Crew Chief Brad: but you know who buys K cars in the us?

Nerdy white guys. Tell me I’m wrong.

Crew Chief Eric: You have to be of a certain build to fit in these too. I mean, at your height, Brad, you put on a K car as a shoe,

Crew Chief Brad: so I’d buy two of them. Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: pretty much. Right now, I do think this Honda, the Modelo X or whatever, is super cool. I’ve seen some videos of these in Japan.

They’re mid engine. You could put the roof in the FR and the FR is tiny, like it holds like, you know, three wrenches kind of thing. I mean the cars are super compact. Oddly enough, it’s like MR two meets S 2000. It has that kind of vibe going. I like it. I’d love to drive one just to see, and I think it wouldd be super cool if they start making left hand drive ones and bring them over to the States.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes,

Crew Chief Eric: there is a subculture in the American automotive landscape that will [00:25:00] buy this for sure. But the, the bigger question is if we’re allowing new K cars to come in, what does it mean for old K cars?

Crew Chief Brad: No, because I think it’s the st the same overarching rules still apply.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s been folks that have been importing ’em for years.

There’s actually a huge shop in like Virginia that brings in K cars that are over 25 years old. You know, the typical gray market stuff. But does this mean we can start bringing over any K cars?

Crew Chief Brad: And even here there’s an update from Department of Transportation that says manufacturers must certify that they meet US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety standards.

So if we’re going to import a K car, unless we change those standards to allow those, the k cars that they create must meet those standards. So the old ones that were created before don’t. So they have to wait. The 25 year rule is my understanding of it.

Crew Chief Eric: Tanya, would you buy a K car? No. No,

Crew Chief Brad: she bought a K car.

Crew Chief Eric: I thought you’d be like one of the first people in line for something like this. You don’t, you don’t like K cars? [00:26:00]

Executive Producer Tania: Uh,

Crew Chief Eric: you just haven’t found the right one yet.

Executive Producer Tania: I know which K car I want.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, which one is it?

Executive Producer Tania: It’s called the Fiat Panda.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, that’s fair. I’ll give you that.

Crew Chief Brad: Not the Al Alpha Romeo Wagon, whatever.

Cross

Executive Producer Tania: Cabo something. Something

Crew Chief Brad: something, something, something. Yeah. Whatever that stick with that thing was

Crew Chief Eric: the longest name ever. Yeah. Good job there, my man. Yes. In other Asian car news, this is the sickest station wagon I’ve seen in a long time. Tell me I’m wrong. The S

Crew Chief Brad: magma,

Crew Chief Eric: the Hyundai Magma series.

Look at this thing.

Crew Chief Brad: The Genesis, smegma wingback,

Crew Chief Eric: the G 90. Look at that color. Look at those wheels, look at those flares. I mean, this is Audi RS six avant territory that Genesis slash Hyundai is going in. Am I wrong?

Crew Chief Brad: Well, no, that’s what they always do.

Crew Chief Eric: That looks sick.

Crew Chief Brad: Remember the stinger?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Crew Chief Brad: Stinger’s basically an A seven or it looks like an A seven,

Crew Chief Eric: which should have come in a stick shift, but we’ll just leave that where it is.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: I would buy one of these.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Stop me. Stop me. ’cause [00:27:00] the price is like $200,000, I’m sure. But Tanya, you have a very discerning eye when it comes to this sort of thing. What do you think of the G 90 magma? Wingback

Executive Producer Tania: got a very asked and rear end.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: The double spoiler is. Interesting.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. All of this is good.

Executive Producer Tania: The weird shark fin thing on the roof.

Crew Chief Brad: On the edges? Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Unsettling from the side angle.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s for aerodynamics. It looks cool from the front.

Executive Producer Tania: You know, I think it’s, if they got rid of those weird twin shark fins or whatever you wanna call those ribs, the line would be much better.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s for the roof rack though.

That’s why those are there. So you, you don’t have a wagon. You don’t understand roof rails. I get it.

Executive Producer Tania: Excuse me. How many wagons have there been made that have roof rails that look better than this? We did not need to reinvent roof rails.

Crew Chief Brad: They just integrated the roof rails into the body as opposed to slapping everyone separately.

Executive Producer Tania: Basically

Crew Chief Eric: these are aerodynamic roof rails. They also provide lateral down force. Okay. It [00:28:00] was tested in a wind tunnel. Okay. In some country that you can’t pronounce. Okay. And the Formula one team that’s involved, or the LAMA team that’s involved said it was good.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. Is

Crew Chief Brad: good.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s a beautiful color.

I’ll give him that.

Crew Chief Eric: This is the hotness fire right here, despite the name. Well, Hyundai’s gotta do something to get us excited. Right. I’m really, I’m really interested to see what happens with their WEC entry in the next couple years.

Executive Producer Tania: Here’s the K car we should all have.

Crew Chief Brad: I was just about to say that. Tanya stole my thunder.

Yes. This is the K car that we all deserve

Executive Producer Tania: because Honda’s just click baiting us with this teaser. They are re-releasing or they’re releasing a new fit only for the Chinese market. So we’re not gonna see, not gonna see another Honda fit here, but they did this, I don’t know, rendering of it in in race trim.

Yes, please. Can we have another Honda Fit Race series? Seriously, that’d be super fun to see these

Crew Chief Eric: B spec cars, is it just me or does it look like a little hamster, like it’s going to [00:29:00] like nod a carrot or

Executive Producer Tania: something? It does, yes.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s got these like buck teeth.

Executive Producer Tania: It does absolutely better front end than that Audi.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, you’re very right about that. And I didn’t plan this, but I mentioned the m mr two earlier. But what is this that you brought us here?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, they haven’t said what it’s going to be. And of course they show pictures of an m mr two because that’s their previous mid-engine sports car. But allegedly Toyota is confirming they will be bringing another midg engine sports car, you know, might be a few years out, but it’s coming.

And then they show a picture of the one they built out of like the Yaris or whatever.

Crew Chief Eric: Right.

Executive Producer Tania: And it’s like are we gonna get a Yaris with a Midg engine or are we gonna actually get something like a breezy with a mid engine?

Crew Chief Brad: Ooh. But

not

Executive Producer Tania: the breezy but the The GR

Crew Chief Brad: Toyota version of the Cleo Sport.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s exactly what I was thinking.

Completely useless for everyday driving. Who

Crew Chief Brad: cares? That’s awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: I think [00:30:00] we should go back to the second generation, MR two. I mean I like the RS, the Mr. Spider. I drove those. The poor man’s lease. I mean the lease and the mr. The MRS are basically the same thing at the end of the day. Similar power plant, all that borrowed from the the sica, but the body lines of the second gen, MR two, if they were modernized and brought into today, like you, we’ve seen some of the body kits for the GR 86 that make it look like the 80 86 of the popup headlights.

I think that stuff is all ultra fantastic and those are the directions that Toyota should be going in. I think they could reintroduce the second generation MR two today. It’s the perfect size. Just do it right for 2026 and you’ve got a boxer killer on top of it all. If they want to go toe to toe with Porsche, Tanya, you always bring us the latest and greatest.

What have you got for us?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, we have the, uh, recent article from Car and Driver about future electric vehicles that you’ll soon be able to buy, but these aren’t necessarily around the corner for sale. They could be [00:31:00] concept to actually being in production and oh, lo and behold, look, there’s that concept C Audi in the picture,

Crew Chief Eric: ma Ma.

But there is that Lancia looking rivian thing again that we talked about a bunch of months ago that is still super cool looking.

Crew Chief Brad: This whole article is kind of contradictory to what we were talking about at the beginning about how manufacturers are scaling back on the whole EV thing.

Executive Producer Tania: Well scaling back.

So it means they still have to make some. Yeah. And you got in here, aside from Okay. Some of the, the usual players. You got Acura coming out with an RSX. An RSX. We’re BRA engineering, the RSX name. ’cause this thing looks like an SUV.

Crew Chief Eric: This thing looks like a Euros. It’s huge.

Executive Producer Tania: It’s terrible. Like this should be the MDX and it’s an ev, but apparently this is expected in the second half of this year.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh.

Executive Producer Tania: So who knows?

Crew Chief Eric: Awful.

Executive Producer Tania: You got Sony apparently gonna come out with that Aila.

Crew Chief Brad: What?

Executive Producer Tania: Which I first saw like several years ago at the Consumer Electronics Show. Apparently [00:32:00] that’s actually becoming real. We haven’t been following Sony and what they were doing. They’re alleging that there’s one expected late this year.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow.

Executive Producer Tania: You’ve got Alpha Romeo with a GI BI

Crew Chief Eric: am really interested in that actually. If you kept the body the way the Julia’s always looked, that’s a handsome ev. It would be the best looking ev on the road. Hands down.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Unlike its cousin, the Stelvio God,

Executive Producer Tania: which is interesting. I thought the Stelvio was pretty much

Crew Chief Eric: dead,

Executive Producer Tania: a gunner.

So the fact that they’d wanna try and make an EV out of that seems interesting. You got Alpine entering the foray.

Crew Chief Eric: Those are hot.

Executive Producer Tania: And here look at this Audi, TTEV. So that concept C. Tt,

Crew Chief Eric: I think I threw up a little bit

Executive Producer Tania: artistic license in writing this to say this is a tt. I don’t think in any way has Audi, you know, said that they’re gonna be coming out with a tt.

But nonetheless, this is

Crew Chief Eric: the concept. Oh, well. So, so that’s funny you say that. You know how the other, the A four was photoshopped?

Executive Producer Tania: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Look at the roof line on this one and tell me they didn’t Photoshop.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh yes.

Crew Chief Eric: This [00:33:00] front end on a T. Oh yes. That’s a tt Gen one TT roof line.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah, it is.

Crew Chief Eric: As a TT owner, I can vouch for this.

Yes, that is what they did. That is terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: Whatever’s going on with that Audi, that’s ridiculous. And then of course you’ve got Bentleys and BMWs. Of course, they’re staying with their I Series. But look at that grill on that. Im three.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh my God. That is horrible.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. The, uh, that car looks like a mark eight or mark nine Lancer is what that is.

Bad three. Looks like it is. It’s bad. It’s terrible. Oh, it looks like that Infinity. The Infiniti I 30.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes, yes, yes. From

Crew Chief Brad: the nineties. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: You know what I will give them credit for though? If those wheels are for real? They look really, really cool. I think those are neat.

Crew Chief Brad: You are on an island, my friends.

Executive Producer Tania: Didn’t something have something like that similar or no?

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know, but they look super slick. Like the way wheels are being made these days is just amazing what they think. What

Executive Producer Tania: do we think of the catter?

Crew Chief Eric: The the what?

Executive Producer Tania: Once you get past the BMWs.

Crew Chief Eric: What’s that?

Executive Producer Tania: Hater em, sorry, I think I pronounced it incorrectly.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that an [00:34:00] vora? I don’t know. That’s what it looks like. Kind of.

Crew Chief Brad: It is stunning.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a good looking car.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes.

Executive Producer Tania: And here’s a surprise, the bolt’s coming back.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh. Boo God, it looks even more like a shopping cart than it did before.

Crew Chief Brad: I actually like the Bolt. I went out the other night and did an Uber and the person that picked me up had a Chevy Bolt and I was impressed with the Chevy Bolt,

Crew Chief Eric: this Ferrari ev.

Executive Producer Tania: We got Ferrari being Ferrari really, because that SUV was so successful. Now we gotta be an ev, let things lie anyway. Yeah. How about here you go, magma.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh God. I instantly love it. So can we talk about the Hoffmeister kink? Do you guys know what that is? I recently learned about it. What? The Hoffmeister kink.

Uh,

Executive Producer Tania: okay. What happens if I google Hoffmeister kink? Do I hit enter right now?

Crew Chief Eric: You don’t Google that. I, I believe it takes you to the wrong kind of [00:35:00] website.

Crew Chief Brad: You never Google anything with the word kink in it?

Executive Producer Tania: No, I haven’t hit enter, so I’m, I’m,

Crew Chief Eric: but, but you can look it up. But maybe put automotive hoffmeister kink that could give you some other search results.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, no. Okay. It came up the very first. Okay.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright. So I learned from John Summers the motoring historian.

Executive Producer Tania: Mm. Okay.

Crew Chief Eric: This goes back to 1960s Ferrari. There’s the Super Americas cars are very swoopy, you know, very beautiful lines. And then the glass has this like cut in it. It’s very sharp, it’s very angular on a car that’s very curvy, like the Super America and the Luso and all those.

This thing, the Hoffmeister kink, it’s like a signature of those Ferraris apparently that carried forward into the modern cars. It’s to break up those swoopy lines and give you something to like focus on for whatever reason. So all modern cars apparently now have this hoffmeister kink, which I don’t understand.

I’d rather see a smooth line.

Executive Producer Tania: It was developed by a German dude [00:36:00] for BMW.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, there you go. It was on those Ferraris way back when. It’s like, I don’t like it, but it’s clear and present on every new design. The

Executive Producer Tania: mark one Volkswagen has a kink

Crew Chief Eric: where

Executive Producer Tania: apparently that is considered a kink

Crew Chief Eric: in the back window of the GTI.

Executive Producer Tania: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: But it works for that car.

Crew Chief Brad: Do you mean liking the mark one Volkswagen as a kink?

Crew Chief Eric: It might be these days.

Executive Producer Tania: The E 36 has a kink. Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: it does.

Crew Chief Eric: Scratch that. Reverse it. Willy Wonka style.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. What made you think of this? ’cause the magma doesn’t have a kink.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s that swoopy thing in the back

Executive Producer Tania: that, no, it’s not. The kink comes down. It goes back the opposite direction.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah. But there’s a lot of new cars that still

Executive Producer Tania: have, so this magma doesn’t have that.

This magma goes just to a tip to the back. It actually looked bad. It probably looked better if it was a kink, ’cause it would have curved back the other way.

Crew Chief Eric: But yeah, that’s what reminded me. ’cause it’s so pronounced. It’s like a penant. It kind of reminds me of, remember the first gen focuses had the penant window on the back.

It was like a [00:37:00] triangular window on a hatchback. It never made any sense to me design-wise. It was like, why didn’t you square it up? I guess they didn’t want to make it look like a golfer, a Reno, Cleo, or anything like that.

Executive Producer Tania: This catering has a kink that is an example of the. The glass turned back to meet the bottom.

And look how that looks. Nice. It looks nicer than if they made it a point.

Crew Chief Eric: But if you look at the Chevy Bolt, doesn’t that also have the kink?

Executive Producer Tania: Yes. It’s very, very subtle

Crew Chief Eric: and it’s awful. It looks terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, this, there’s other issues.

But anyway. The one car you were calling the Lancia, apparently it’s a Honda.

Crew Chief Eric: What? I thought that was a rivian.

Executive Producer Tania: You were calling it Rivian?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: A weird wedge.

Crew Chief Eric: No, I think that one looks like a Lamborghini from the A

Executive Producer Tania: Lamborghini. Yeah. That’s a Honda. No, the fir. Yeah. That pickup truck looked like a rivian.

Crew Chief Eric: These are all getting terrible. Ooh, the Kevin is back. E like Kev.

Executive Producer Tania: Like Kev,

Crew Chief Eric: yeah. Remember the commercial Kevin Bacon? Eev like Kev. He’s got his daughter in the car [00:38:00] and he’s like embarrassing her. It’s like a Super Bowl commercial.

Executive Producer Tania: No.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah. This is the SOB 900 Turbo s. That’s what this is.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean the, you, you guys, it goes on and on and, and Lucid and Lotus and Lexus and Mazda, Mercedes.

We didn’t talk about them.

Crew Chief Eric: We are not allowed to talk about them. System

Executive Producer Tania: we’re not. So we’ll skip over the various Mercedes and they have a lot a Mitsubishi Lancer ev. They’re gonna desecrate the name Lancer with a bizarre looking smushed. SUV. There’s an ev and of course you have, you know, Polestar and whatever have you.

The Porsche Cayman and Cayenne EVs, rolls Royce. And then, yes, the Rivian R two, which I thought was already out, but I guess it’s coming out. Now

Crew Chief Eric: I want the R three and the R three.

Executive Producer Tania: The R three is so good. It is a fi panda. Ah. They didn’t kink it though. They didn’t kink That glass

Crew Chief Eric: doesn’t need the kink.

Look at the glass. It looks perfect. Without the kink.

Executive Producer Tania: The line of this car [00:39:00] does not need the kink.

Crew Chief Eric: Kink is in the back. Brad is just, he’s, he’s not buying it.

Crew Chief Brad: I’m still trying to understand what the kink is. I was too scared to Google it.

Crew Chief Eric: Look at the scout and it’ll

Executive Producer Tania: make sense to you. No, you can Google it.

Hoffmeister kink, the very first thing that’ll come up is the appropriate thing.

Crew Chief Brad: Okay, now I, now, now I got it. Okay. For some reason I was thinking the rear glass, like the back glass.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh no, no, no. The side back glass.

Crew Chief Brad: Do they actually explain why this does this?

Executive Producer Tania: I think it’s just a design.

Crew Chief Brad: A design thing,

Executive Producer Tania: because if not, it’d be awkward.

You either have to round it like they did on that R three. You’re coming to a point which is just awkward and probably very difficult to manufacture the glass.

Crew Chief Brad: Right.

Executive Producer Tania: And also probably structurally having that kink, flattening it out there probably does something to the structural rigid or integrity of the the side panel and the glass itself.

Crew Chief Brad: I can see that I totally want an R three.

Executive Producer Tania: Right.

Crew Chief Eric: They’re awesome. Yeah,

Executive Producer Tania: right.

Crew Chief Brad: I could see getting one of these in a couple years once the boys are outta [00:40:00] daycare. That’s my goal.

Executive Producer Tania: That’d be fun. And if it is truly starting under 40,000,

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t believe that for a second.

Crew Chief Brad: 37 to 47,

Crew Chief Eric: I’m sorry.

Executive Producer Tania: No, but one of the more interesting things on this list in terms of seeing how this actually plays out is the slate.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: The Bezos truck.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh my God.

Executive Producer Tania: To see how this actually turns out it, I think that’ll be interesting to keep our eyes on this year and into next year. So obviously the list goes on and on and on and on, and Toyota and Volvo and et cetera. So apparently, even though everybody’s rolling back their EVs, they’re keeping some in the lineups until they aren’t.

These aren’t all confirmed, so,

Crew Chief Eric: but you know what else isn’t confirmed? Things that are lost. So let’s switch to Brad’s favorite part of the drive through. Lost and frowned. I don’t believe you scoured the internet or called Chuck La Duck or Gray Chevrolet over the winter break.

Crew Chief Brad: No,

Crew Chief Eric: but I found something for you guys.

I’d mentioned this. Probably before [00:41:00] I mentioned the other rado that was modified, that they had turned it into a station wagon. They used the Audi 90 rear lights. I dunno if you guys remember that one eventually, that sort of became the polo station wagon way back when. But have you guys heard about the like one-off Rado Cabrio Le

Crew Chief Brad: Nope.

Executive Producer Tania: Horrible name for the video.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty terrible.

Executive Producer Tania: Who would’ve thought it would’ve worked as a Cabrio?

Crew Chief Eric: It looks really good,

Executive Producer Tania: man, seeing this car. Not as the Cabrio though. I’m like, shit,

Crew Chief Eric: every time I see a Rado I’m like, I want a carrado in my life again. And then. I think if I get a carra in my life again, I will regret every minute of it.

You know, like, ugh.

Crew Chief Brad: So I’m confused. Okay. So Volkswagen actually made this car.

Crew Chief Eric: Volkswagen commissioned a design house to create a Cabrio Le of the Carrado as a concept, and I think they built like two of them or something like that. But this guy, private guy owns one of them, and so he does this little tour, drives around and shows everybody.

It’s one of those forgotten things, sort of like the Rado station wagon that I was just [00:42:00] mentioning. Every time you see it, you’re kinda like, yeah, I like that. They should have done that. Like what were they thinking? They should have sold more rados. They should have sold them for longer. They should have evolved it yet again and continued the Rocco line because there was a period of nothing between the Rado and the next generation Mark, six based Rocco.

There was not a whole lot going on there, so I think they could have stretched out that lineage a little bit. Now granted, there’s some fallbacks there because the longer you keep the rado going, while at that point the Mark fours would’ve been out, let’s just say the Rado was using a Mark two chassis, so we’re talking eighties technology with a nineties body, and now you’re building it into the two thousands.

That would’ve been pretty crazy. I can understand why they had to kill it off. It just doesn’t make sense to continue to keep the tool and die around for a platform that doesn’t exist anymore. But I think they could have evolved a rado and kept it going. But stuff like this, I mean, just imagine instead of that weird.

Mark three and a half Cabrio le that we got, that’s like a mark three in the back and [00:43:00] a mark four in the front, and you know, nothing’s cross compatible between the generations. That’s what we ended up with instead of this, which would’ve been super cool. Again, if they had made one, I would’ve really considered collecting one.

You know, have a Coupa and a convertible. I think that’d be super cool. Tanya, any car commercials you’d like us to review for Lost and Found this month?

Executive Producer Tania: Do not have one this time.

Crew Chief Eric: Next time.

Crew Chief Brad: By the next time we’ll actually have Super Bowl commercials to review.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah, that’s right.

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ll have a whole slew of car commercial

Executive Producer Tania: and they’ll probably be wildly disappointing.

Crew Chief Brad: Tanya’s holding out for the good stuff.

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly,

Crew Chief Eric: so it’s a new year. Do we have a new New Year’s resolution or are we gonna stick with last year? Are we allowed to talk about Tesla in 2026?

Crew Chief Brad: That was our resolution

Executive Producer Tania: last year.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: I think we’ll make some exceptions.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, okay.

Crew Chief Brad: Only when it’s comical and it paints Tesla in a bad light.

Executive Producer Tania: Only when it’s talking about the cyber truck and how the sales have plummeted [00:44:00] like a rock off Mount Everest.

Crew Chief Eric: Nobody wants these.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s my fault. Had I bought mine, they would’ve been negative 14,999 instead of 15,000.

Executive Producer Tania: And here’s the the hilarious thing. Cyber Truck was America’s bestselling electric pickup in 2024.

Wasn’t it like the only

Crew Chief Brad: I, it it was between that and the F1 Lightning. I don’t think there were any other pickups.

Executive Producer Tania: No. But the F1 lightning barely didn’t even, I, I don’t even remember when it came out. Yeah, maybe they came out pretty close, I guess. Nonetheless, they sold 39,000 cyber trucks during the first full year.

On the market in 2024.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm-hmm.

Executive Producer Tania: And then the sales got cut in half. They estimate that only 20,200 were sold in 2025.

Crew Chief Brad: Wow.

Executive Producer Tania: Even though Muskie would have said they were gonna sell, like, I don’t know, over a hundred thousand or 200,000 or some BS that he had floated at one point of all, all they were gonna [00:45:00] sell.

And now apparently, I think they’re saying they’re just like sitting in lots right now.

Crew Chief Eric: I just realized that the entire design of the cyber truck is a hofmeister kink.

Crew Chief Brad: There’s a kink. There’s a kink.

Executive Producer Tania: No, there’s is no kink. No, this is great.

Crew Chief Brad: The back bumper is a kink.

Executive Producer Tania: If you look at the side view of it when you scroll down.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh, the one that’s covered in vomit.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, where you see all the dirty hand smudges all down the side of it. Yeah. Yes. The, the perfect profile of the side.

This is what happens when you don’t do a kink. They didn’t do a kink on that back glass. It’s straight down. And then they didn’t kink anything on that front glass. It comes to a point, look how dumb that looks.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. There’s nothing kinky about the cyber truck.

It is Kless.

Crew Chief Eric: I see more of these on the road, and the wraps are crazy and they look terrible in every color. Whether it’s red, orange, yellow, blue, black.

Executive Producer Tania: You have to wrap ’em [00:46:00] because they look like vomit. If not,

Crew Chief Brad: okay, so if you go further down, there is a graph showing the pickup trucks that were sold in 2024 and 2025, the electric pickup trucks,

Crew Chief Eric: Uhhuh,

Crew Chief Brad: the cyber truck, the lightning, the Rivian R one, they’re considering the Hummer, a pickup truck.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, okay.

Crew Chief Brad: I don’t really think it is. The Silverado ev, which I’ve seen a few of those around here. I actually kinda like ’em. And then the Sierra Ev, which is just the same thing as the Silverado ev.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, you reminded me of something Brad, and maybe we’ll have to have him on the show to talk about life with Hummer Ev.

If you remember Big Drew who has been off-roading Jeeps and he had his G wagon and all that. He got rid of all that stuff. He now has a Hummer Ev. And he said when we had talked to him last time about off-roading for him that would be like the pinnacle offroad vehicle. Like that’s the one he want. He finally got one.

And I’m wondering, A, if he took it off-road and B, what it’s like to be an owner of a Hummer ev. So maybe we’ll have him back to talk about [00:47:00] that.

Crew Chief Brad: I can’t imagine. It’s very good off-road being 200,000 pounds.

Executive Producer Tania: So the question I would have sometimes being discerning of graphs and data. The cyber truck came out in 2023 uhhuh, so yes, it technically had a full 2024 sales year.

The F-150 didn’t come out till April. The Silverado didn’t come out till like June. Or mid-year sometime the cyber truck had a headstart on these guys and it barely eked out. Actually, the F-150, I had never seen this data before. I’d never paid attention to how many F1 fifties were sold. Who cares? So I wonder if the F-150 had come out.

Earlier in 2023 alongside the cyber truck. This might be a different graph because in 2025 it outpaced the cyber truck.

Crew Chief Brad: And to that point, like its drop off might’ve been proportional though, because all the early adopters were going, all the people that were going to buy them would buy them first, and then the casual customers would kind of stroll in and you know, pick one up.

All the [00:48:00] diehards would’ve bought them at first, so the sales would’ve come down because it’s the early adopters and everybody that are buying ’em and not the people that necessarily are just looking for a vehicle.

Executive Producer Tania: But then there’s also the, all the problems with it.

Crew Chief Brad: Well,

Executive Producer Tania: bricking, you can’t get it wet. It rusts because

Crew Chief Brad: yes, I have a vehicle that I cannot get wet.

Executive Producer Tania: The panels blow off and fall off and the accelerator pedal breaks underneath you and the, and the console disintegrates

Crew Chief Eric: quality.

Executive Producer Tania: I wonder how much of that also contributed to a downward decline in sales.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Nah.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. How much of whistling diesel contributed to the decline in sales?

Crew Chief Eric: Nah. Moving on to the segment.

That has changed more times than Brad has changed his socks over the years we’re at. Seriously, what could go wrong formerly? Lowered expectations.

Crew Chief Brad: Lowered expectations.

Crew Chief Eric: This one takes the cake. Tanya, you spent a week with [00:49:00] a rental Ultima. I’m just gonna throw it out there.

Crew Chief Brad: You did what? Now

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna say it again. She spent a week with an Altima.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, actually I was gonna bring this up. I had the rare opportunity to actually sample some of JD M’s. Finest over a short period of time for a variety of reasons.

So not only did I have a rental Ultima, but I also had a rental Elantra. And I had a rental Kia.

Crew Chief Brad: A rental Kia what?

Executive Producer Tania: Kia? Soul.

Crew Chief Brad: Kia Soul. Okay. No

Crew Chief Eric: Kia Rio from like 1995.

Crew Chief Brad: Did the buy one get one free?

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: So Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan, for all intents and purposes,

Crew Chief Eric: who came out on top?

Executive Producer Tania: Who came out on bottom?

The Kia

Crew Chief Eric: Really

Crew Chief Brad: not surprised. The, the Kia Souls in a condo car. The Elantra and Ultima are mid-size family sedans.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes. And the Kia. Felt its economy. Yeah. Literally in its fuel [00:50:00] economy as well as its quality of interior and, and the feel and the sad motor that it tried its best.

Crew Chief Eric: How were those cardboard seats?

Executive Producer Tania: The surprise in this? Actually was the Elantra. Oh

Crew Chief Eric: really?

Executive Producer Tania: The Elantra would give you in the forties, miles per gallon all day long. I was shocked. And it’s got a nice little gauge and it’s telling you as modern cars do, like where you’re falling in the band and all that stuff. And it was like, I drove around and around and some cruising, like long distance on the highway.

I thought for the longest time after driving like two hours and stuff, that the gas needle was broken and the gas gauge didn’t work because it did not move.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm.

Executive Producer Tania: And and I’m watching the thing and it’s going, you’re doing 45 miles at a gallon. I’m like, bullshit. I am. This is a big ass car. I went around and around in a two hour drive and a two hour drive back and then here and there in city and highway [00:51:00] practically returned to full.

It was ridiculous. I mean, great. I’ll also say the interior wasn’t terrible. It was fine. It wasn’t the most luxurious. Having also recently been in some other Japanese cars, there are more luxurious interiors in that same kind of range of car that you could get in a similar price range. Probably Also, see, the other thing about the Kia, which might have swayed me, not really, there was a smoker in that car and that car fucking wreaked.

Wreaked. And I should have returned it immediately on the spot, but I did not. Eventually I got used to the smell, which was pretty bad. But anyway, the Altima, so get to the Altima.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh boy.

Executive Producer Tania: So I, I had Elantra. Kia and then the Altima.

Crew Chief Eric: Save the best for last. Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. Save the best for last baby. When I was still in the rental car garage, I snapped a photo and sent it to you.

And what was wrong with that Altima? The front bumper was hanging off slightly

Crew Chief Eric: [00:52:00] from the, they come that way from the factory. It’s like Fiats in the seventies with the rust. Altimas do not come fully put together. It’s like some assembly required,

Executive Producer Tania: but here is my legitimate, okay, I got in the Altima, get out of the airport, all that stuff.

Get on the highway, whatever, wherever I’m going.

Crew Chief Eric: Before you get, did you do any antics in the Altima? Did you go full Altima driver?

Executive Producer Tania: Of course

Crew Chief Eric: not. You jumped some curbs. Did you reenact Bullet. Did you bounce off of some telephone poles?

Crew Chief Brad: Did you pay for the insurance?

Executive Producer Tania: No. But kid you not. I literally had the thought while I’m driving this car.

This car gives no fucks.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s a on badger.

Executive Producer Tania: This car is here for it. All the Elantra and the Kia, they were sitting there driving you back into the lane constantly. Boop, boop, boop. This boop, boop, boop, that the Altima you wanna drive in the middle of the road on the yellow line. I’ll downshift for you. Let’s go.

Those are the Tima vibes. Okay.

Crew Chief Brad: The Ulta [00:53:00] is the Ultima’s a Ride or Die?

Executive Producer Tania: The Tima

Crew Chief Eric: literally

Executive Producer Tania: is there for you.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah,

Crew Chief Eric: that’s why it’s the number one selling vehicle at Nissan, despite the fact that it’s the only vehicle that Nissan sells.

Crew Chief Brad: I, I wanna buy an Ultima now.

Executive Producer Tania: I will say the, the, the Elantra though, like interior and everything was still slightly superior.

I had a little bit nicer finish and polish to it. The Ultima felt a little, little plasticy inside.

Crew Chief Brad: Rough around the edges.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah. It was, it was rough on the edges. It didn’t give a shit. Yeah. It’s just getting you where you need to go.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Need dragging pedestrians behind you?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it’s dragging its bumper, it’s flapping in the wind.

All right, so I’m gonna ask this every month until you answer. Nope. Yes. That question is, did you watch the F1 movie?

Executive Producer Tania: Not yet.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s not free yet, but it’s Do you pay for Apple? Not, not yet. If you pay for Apple tv, you’re waiting for the F1 season. I get

Crew Chief Eric: it. So the last minute, you wanna get the maximum out of that Apple [00:54:00] subscription you possibly.

Exactly.

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: The Olympics are happening first. Okay. Yes. Then Formula One.

Executive Producer Tania: Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: Since we’re in the middle of winter, really cold, and we’ve got some huge storms coming here. Destined for some inclement weather. Probably as you’re listening to this, we’re on the other end of some inclement weather that hit us pretty hard.

This is borderline Florida. Man. I don’t know if you guys saw this Instagram reel that was going around and it’s not artificial intelligence, you know, generating a video to be funny or any, you know, somebody being a parody. I literally watched a video and I must have watched it 10 times ’cause I didn’t believe what I was seeing.

A woman was using one of those small, like little portable snowblowers and I’m not talking like the Ryobi one, I’m talking like the neck size up. Okay. So I’m not sure if it was gas powered or what to clear off their car from the hood. Up through the windshield with the snowblower back and forth and back and forth, and every time they went back and forth, I just cringed and said, I wonder [00:55:00] how their windshield got busted.

Can you believe the stuff that people do? Like how hard is it to clear your windshield

Crew Chief Brad: considering there are so many people out there that just don’t fucking do it after a snowstorm and they just drive? It’s probably pretty hard. Apparently.

Crew Chief Eric: I wouldn’t think it was that easy to get the snowblower up on the car.

Executive Producer Tania: I would think it would be harder to go through the effort of this, whatever the snowblower thing was than to just even use your arm if you don’t have an ice scraper or something.

Crew Chief Brad: Right. She did it for the grim,

Executive Producer Tania: basically.

Crew Chief Eric: She looked like an older lady, so I don’t know that she was TikTok in the old folks home kind of thing.

Right.

Crew Chief Brad: Wait, wait, wait, wait. But but before we go any further, I think there is a question that needs to be asked.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay.

Crew Chief Brad: Was it an Altima?

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. Yes.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes,

Crew Chief Eric: because it’s here for it all. As Tanya says, it’s here for all of it. Okay. Yes. So that’s what got me. ’cause I was like, there’s no way the windshield’s cracked because ultimas will survive nuclear holocaust and there’s no way that the paint is [00:56:00] chipped because you could go through Armageddon with an Ultima and it will last.

And I kept thinking the snowblower has augers. It should have torn up the hood. Nah. Ultimas are bulletproof. It’s all good. So if you own an Ultima and you have a small snowblower, apparently you can clear off your car.

Crew Chief Brad: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: Again, what could go wrong

Crew Chief Brad: And then they drive 150 miles an hour down the road on the wrong side of the road

Crew Chief Eric: because there’s no lane assist.

So what’s stopping you from Alright, so book club. I am on a mission to get through some automotive books. I’ve got a backlog of them. So, you know, I just wanna throw a plug out here. Finally finished the revised edition of Brock Yates’s tome, the love letter to Enzo Ferrari. It’s the history of Enzo Ferrari from the very beginning up until his death in 1988, and this version was updated by his daughter because of the Ferrari movie that had come out a couple of years ago.

I will say, if you’re a Ferrari fan, read it. Get the audiobook on Spotify or Audible or wherever, check it out. It’s [00:57:00] immensely detailed. You can tell that it is a little biased. Brock Gates seem to be a big fan of Ferrari, although he kind of poo-poos on the Europeans. You know, very pro-American stuff like that.

It, it is what it is. It was written quite a long time ago, but it is one of the definitive Ferrari books, especially when it comes to Ferrari history. So I enjoyed it. It’s quite long. Book itself is hundreds and hundreds of pages, and the revised edition adds another couple of chapters because it goes up through Schumacher and current days and the return of Mon de Zilo and all this kind of stuff.

So it’s updated for the current times up until the movie a couple of years ago. So Enzo by Brock Yates is on my recommended read list. If you are a automotive historian or a automotive enthusiast, nerd. That’s that. But speaking of Ferrari, we need to switch to rich people. Thanks. So I mentioned I had rental wagon here and went on a little trip to Florida.

This is a multi-layered story here, but I will say this. Shout out to our friends at the Revs [00:58:00] Institute, Naples, Florida. I’d never been before. So before going to the 2026 Mecu auction, I took a little detour to go visit Lauren Goodman and Arthur down at Revs and hang out there and see the museum and all that kinda stuff.

Never been before, always heard good things from people that had been, didn’t know what to expect. When I went there, I kept my expectations low thinking, ah, car museum. How good could it be? The minute you walk into Revs, you suddenly realize you’re on a whole nother level. The place is immaculate. It’s well curated, it’s fascinating.

The cars are interesting, the people are interesting. It runs like a well-oiled machine. I mean, we got the full tour, even the restoration shop, all of it. We got to see the new archives that they built in Fort Myers and got access to a whole bunch of like photographs and talked to a bunch of people. It was absolutely amazing.

Cannot recommend revs enough. I wrote a short article about it with some pictures that will include in the show notes. So if you’re headed to Florida and you can make the Detour to Southwestern Florida, go to Naples. Go check it out. Go check out the cars, ask for [00:59:00] Lauren. She’ll take you around or hook you up with someone there that can take you on a really nicely well guided tour.

It’s very much worth the stop over from Revs. We went to Mecu in Kissimmee, not too far from Disney World, NEP Cot and all that fun stuff right there in the heart of Orlando. It’s a circus, like that’s all I could say. Mecu Kissimmee, one of the biggest auctions in the country, absolute nonstop for two weeks.

We were there at the tail end, specifically for the Bachman collection and the Bianco Spile, which we covered earlier in December. So you can go back to that multi-part mini series that we did Leading up to that, we got there trying to get a lay of the land pictures of all the cars, you know, what we wanted to see, get the programs and figure out the run order for the auctions and all this kind of stuff.

And so what we did is we set up shop right there amongst all the craziness that was happening. And we did play by play commentary of the Bachman collection and the Bianco special. So there’s an episode that dropped on January the 17th. You can go back into our catalog and check it out. [01:00:00] And I was there with William from the Ferrari marketplace, John Summers the motoring historian, and we had David Ions fly in from Ontario, Canada, who’s from Motor Copia, and we had all been part of that miniseries in December, but we all got together live and did commentary right there from the auction.

It was pretty cool. So lots of really neat stuff across the blocks. 17 record setting Ferraris, I mean, we’re talking Enzos that sold for double what they should normally sell for F forties. That broke the record. 2 88 GTOs, 360 challenge s, just all sorts of stuff that was off the charts expensive. There was even a Ferrari 400 I that was like in disrepair and motors, half apart body panels are missing.

And we were like, Hey Willie, you like those cars? You should bid on that, blah. It came out the gate and suddenly it’s like a hundred thousand dollars for a car that needs to be put back together that isn’t even running. And it was like just absolute off the chain. Rich people things. And so you’re probably wondering as you’re nodding your head, brag on, yeah.

Ferrari. Was there more ketchup than there was mustard? No. The [01:01:00] Bachmans were huge fans of yellow Ferrari. Most of their collection was yellow. So if you wanna see Ferrari you’ve never seen in that fly yellow or some of the more modern yellow colors, definitely check out the pictures we have from the Bachman collection.

Just one of a kind. A lot of them were last of the line cars, like the last one off the production line. European delivery, crazy color combinations that were specifically ordered for them, like completely bespoke and all that.

Crew Chief Brad: And how many Altimas went across the block and what did they sell for?

Crew Chief Eric: Zero.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Here’s the thing that boggles me about auctions, right? It’s crazy. Now Mecu is a little bit. Less what John Summers likes to call past the butter auctions. Those are the, you know, the Sotheby’s, you know, the Goodings and all those, like what you would expect if you ever watched the movie, the Red Violin.

That’s what those auctions are like. You know, they’re quiet, but you got these auctioneers telling a story and trying to get people excited and there’s someone in the background sipping tea and holding a little paddle, you know, or gently rubbing their ear or something, you know, whatever the signal is that they wanna make a bid.[01:02:00]

Kom is more like, it’s like the farm show auction, and they got the guy,

and it is just this pattern that’s constantly going on nonstop, and they take turns. They just have auctioneers that just rotate through and they take a break and it’s just, it’s bonkers. And so there’s a lot of energy in the room, but it’s no ultimas. No, but Corvettes for $800,000. You’re like, where is the money coming from?

I mean, Yanko, Camaros for millions of dollars. You’re like. Who’s buying these cars? The amount of money that was crossing the block was absolutely insane. And I did a rough calculation. The Bachman collection alone, hammer values before fees. ’cause you always have to tack on like another 10% to everything that sells.

It was like $55 million just for those 40 cars in the Bachman collection. You’re like, they had four to 5,000 cars go through Mecu in two weeks. And I mean, you’re talking again, Corvettes for [01:03:00] $800,000 a pop. You do the math, it’s billions and billions of dollars running through and it’s like, where is it coming from?

Where’s it going? Some of these cars, I feel like they rotate from one auction to the next. Right. People are buying them and flipping ’em. They probably didn’t even take ’em off the car carrier that, you know, they probably showed up to collect them on. So there’s a game there too. I mean, you get some inside baseball and how some of that stuff works, but I’m just like, that’s too rich for my blood man.

It’s straight up rich people things.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So then the crescendo, you know, we were building up to the Bianca Spec. That’s the 19 61, 2 50 GTO Ferrari. The only one made in white, one of eight right hand drives driven by Graham Hill. You know, Roy Salvador, all this stuff. You, you can go back and listen to the whole story.

All the provenance that that car has. You gotta remember two 50 GTOs don’t sell on an auction block. Normally they are traded like Picassos and Rembrandt and Renoirs. They’re like art pieces. People don’t really drive two 50 GTOs unless you’re uh,

Crew Chief Brad: crazy.

Crew Chief Eric: No, the guy from Pink Floyd, what’s his name? Nick.

Crew Chief Brad: Nick Mason.

Crew Chief Eric: Yes. Nick Mason. There you go. [01:04:00] So, at any rate. This two 50 GTO up for auction. It’s the first one up for auction in like over 10 years or something like that. So anyway, there’s a, there’s sort of a range. When you sell privately, they don’t declare like how much things go for. And so there’s sort of a range between let’s say like, I think 35 and 75, right?

The guy from WeatherTech bought his for right around 75. And then there was one that, you know, somebody bought way back when and wrecked and they died in it, but they never raced it and it had to be rebuilt and that one was considered a bad one and it sold for like 35. There was all these projections that either the Bianca was gonna do better than McNeil’s silver one, or it was gonna sit somewhere in the middle, right?

Maybe, let’s say 50 million, right? We’re not talking thousands, we’re talking millions of dollars. So we get there. You could tell that there was somebody on the phone, there was somebody in the room. There were only a couple people that were in that space, right? Because they came out opening bid 50 million, and then they had to drop it.

They dropped it all the way down to 25 [01:05:00] to try to get some bidding going, and it just crept up and crept up and crept up, and the whole thing was sort of over and done with in about 20 to 25 minutes. Unlike the other cars where they kind of speed ’em through, they’re trying to ramp it up. They wanna get it back to that 50 million, which is where we thought the reserve was probably sitting there.

So they took the reserve off at 35, trying to push it to 36, you know, and that number, and it just sort of sat there and sat there and sat there. And then they finally settled on 35, which came out to 38 and changed with fees, but still $35 million for a Ferrari. Good god. That’s rich people things.

Crew Chief Brad: It is pretty though.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s even prettier in person. I mean, it’s a good, it’s one of the best looking Ferrari’s hands down. I mean, it’s like that moment they just got it right, you know? They got it right on all levels. It was winning and racing. It was winning in design. It was just a winning car. Not to say that they couldn’t repeat it later.

But it was just one of those things, you know, but you had to be there, but you can sort of relive it by re-listening to that episode. So, [01:06:00] and in the end, would I go to another auction as a commentator? Absolutely. Could I bid on anything? No. Like, it hurts me, like, just to see those numbers. Like maybe I could go to the, the co-part auction when they’re getting rid of, you know, like an insurance car or an old police car or something.

But that caliber of auction is just, you have to be committed to what you’re buying at that point.

Executive Producer Tania: Mm-hmm.

Crew Chief Eric: It looks here that we got some extra notes in the, uh, in our rich people. What is this value meal? What’s going on here?

Crew Chief Brad: It’s a different segment.

Crew Chief Eric: What is the drive-through,

Executive Producer Tania: blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s not rich people things.

It’s it’s value meal. It’s things the everyday person can afford. Yeah. That are fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Ah,

Crew Chief Brad: it’s rich people things And Goodwill. Dollar menu. Maybe it should be Dollar menu.

Crew Chief Eric: Dollar menu.

Executive Producer Tania: I thought of dollar menu at first and then I thought maybe that’s ripping somebody off. Do, do, do, do, do.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s the extra value menu.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Family Dollar.

Crew Chief Eric: This ain’t Burger King. You can’t have it your way.

Executive Producer Tania: No. But as [01:07:00] you know, more and more of us are becoming Lego or brick enthusiasts. The Brick shop by Mattel has unveiled their latest build, which is a nineties Honda Civic.

Crew Chief Brad: Gee, I wonder who’s had one of those before.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know Brad, who had one of those.

Me. I mean, if this was red, it would look exactly like yours.

Crew Chief Brad: It would, it would.

Crew Chief Eric: Why did they pick this color though?

Executive Producer Tania: Because they already have the Hot Wheels in that color.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, the Hot Wheels was already in that color. They already had the paint.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, and it’s funny because these are becoming more popular.

Mattel is trying to break into that speed champion’s Lego market there the other day. Well, when I was in Florida, I actually went through a Walmart. I had to go pick something up and I walked just for giggles. You walk through the toy aisle,

Crew Chief Brad: always

Crew Chief Eric: the Hot Wheels section. I’ve never been more repulsed in my life.

It looked like a bomb went off. I was like, I’m not even gonna bother. Like, I won’t bother with the bins that you see, you know, like the, the, the 50 gallon drums. Like, I’m like, ah, it’s a [01:08:00] disaster. I’m not dealing with that. Usually Walmart Target, like they put ’em up on the pegboard and you kind of glance underneath and you could see everything.

This looked like an explosion. So I was like, all right, nevermind. But what caught my eye, it looked over because the Hot Wheels. These Mattel brick shop, not to call them Legos ’cause they’re their own thing. It’s like mega blocks, right? Or whatever they used to be called are right next to the Hot Wheels.

And I saw the Audi RS two version that they have available. And for a minute I was like, I’m gonna buy that. I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna get it, it’s gonna be mine, I’m gonna bring it home. And then I went, I don’t have that much space in my luggage so I’m not gonna do it. And I’ll see if I can find one local.

I had, it was right there, it was like in, it was just within reach and I didn’t do it, but I did buy the Audi 90 GTO car a couple years ago when that came out. So I have that. So I was like, ah, so maybe I made a mistake and I’m never gonna find one. You should

Crew Chief Brad: have bought it and went straight to the UPS store.

Crew Chief Eric: And just ship it to yourself. It’s so stupid. So stupid. Oh, well. But glad to see that Mattel is doing something like this. I think it’s pretty [01:09:00] cool. There’s some new stuff coming out from Lego too, which looks super interesting. So this whole, you know, one 18 scale brick based modeling is pretty neat. I think this is cool stuff.

All right,

Crew Chief Brad: segment two F colon r ru. Faster than an interceptor. Tanya in parentheses Florida. Man.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh boy. Ron Burgundy’s back.

So I have a Florida man story because I was in Florida.

Crew Chief Brad: There was this Ja off driving a Grand Wagoner owl.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, ping ponging down the road. No, no, no. So get this. So we’re on our way from Revs to Mecu early in the morning. We got up, hit the road figure, we’ll knock it out, we gotta pick up William. ’cause he had gone down early, all this kind of stuff.

So it’s like, all right, cool. We get most of the way there and I’m like, anybody else gotta pee? And they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there’s a Circle K. So I just, [01:10:00] you know, bail pulled in a circle K figure. It’s a good time to get a cup of coffee and relieve oneself and, and whatever. Yeah. I wander around the circle KA little bit and it’s like, ah, before I buy anything, you know, go pee.

Well, you know, normally I, I don’t wanna say you go as a group ’cause you don’t, you try not to, you know, the whole, you know, there’s that unspoken rule of space at the urinal and all that kind of thing. You know, we all, we all know how it goes, right. Instead, we all go in together. John Summers to my right, I’m in the middle.

David Nyan, our friendly Canadian walks into the stall that the door is open to and all you hear is, whoa. I’m sorry. And there’s an older guy in there doing his business, wiping himself, and he looks at David and apparently David is completely embarrassed and I heard it through the stall wall. He’s just like he.

He like, gotcha sucker. And then next I hear John Summers go, I suddenly have stage fright and I’m like, oh my God. This is the most awkward bathroom situation I could have ever [01:11:00] anticipated in my life. So can you imagine walking into a bathroom stall and facing a Florida man? And he’s happy by the fact that he snared you in his web.

As he’s sitting there in the Circle K bathroom.

Crew Chief Brad: Wow.

Crew Chief Eric: Your guys’ faces say it all.

Crew Chief Brad: Was it a Circle K or a Circle J?

Crew Chief Eric: Something was amiss. Something was afoot. The Circle K.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Something’s amiss.

Crew Chief Eric: And I had to keep him laughing. Right? Because I find all of this extremely amusing. David is so polite. He closes the stall door and it’s just like, oh my God.

Crew Chief Brad: That’s very Canadian of you, David.

Crew Chief Eric: I know, right? I’m just like, oh, wow. But can you imagine? Can you imagine Florida man?

Crew Chief Brad: I’m surprised he didn’t spread his legs and say, you can go in between.

Crew Chief Eric: No. Ah.

Crew Chief Brad: How good of a shot are you?

Crew Chief Eric: Here hold this.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. [01:12:00]

Crew Chief Eric: Taken so many different ways.

Crew Chief Brad: Did you need some help there, bud?

Crew Chief Eric: God, it’s so good.

Crew Chief Brad: Wow.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a memory there. That’s unforgettable. I mean, it’s different for me. David must be still having nightmares about that. I mean, can you imagine?

Crew Chief Brad: It really puts the name of the next segment into perspective behind the pit wall.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Right. Well, let’s go behind the pit wall for some of motor sports news, not formula Rolex.

That’s it. Is. The beginning of the year, Rolex is here. I cannot tell you the results because we recorded this just before Rolex, and it’s gonna come out just after Rolex, so we’ll have to talk about that next time. But in WEC imsa, SRO News, something interesting that happened during the winter months came across my desk.

Changes are coming to Lama this year, and a news article that was sort of buried on Lamont’s website. There’s a rendering of the changes that are being made to the infamous Dunlap Bridge and Dunlap Curve. They’re no longer gonna be called either. They’re going to be sponsored [01:13:00] by Goodyear and branded by Goodyear.

Thus connecting the Goodyear Tribune, which is where the Club de Piot is with La Chappelle. Over the Goodyear Bridge, through the Goodyear Curves. Goodyear, Goodyear, Goodyear. It’s all gonna be Goodyear. I don’t know how I feel about it. I care, but I don’t care. But I care because it’s always been Dunlop Bridge and it’s always been Dunlop Curve forever.

Why the sudden change?

Crew Chief Brad: If you want to know how I feel about it, I didn’t even know it was Dunlop Bridge before ’cause I paid zero attention to that. So I, it’s a, it, I’m indifferent.

Crew Chief Eric: Ah, that’s no fun.

Crew Chief Brad: I recuse myself, I

Executive Producer Tania: mean. Why

Crew Chief Eric: there is no explanation for that other than money talks.

Executive Producer Tania: I mean, iconic at this point,

Crew Chief Eric: it’d be like painting the Eiffel Tower Blue and slapping the Goodyear logo on it.

Right. It’s doesn’t making any sense to me.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, Michelin wouldn’t let that happen.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you know, it’s kind of funny because correct me if I’m wrong, and Dunlap’s British, right?

Executive Producer Tania: It’s currently owned by Sumi. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: so it’s Japanese then. All right. Then

Executive Producer Tania: was founded by John Boyd Dunlap in Belfast, [01:14:00] Ireland.

Crew Chief Eric: There you go.

See my memory’s still. Okay, well, speaking of Lamont 2026, my. Favorite race of the year, though I’m not a, again, I have committed to Formula One, and we’ll talk about that on another episode.

Executive Producer Tania: Well, we have to,

Crew Chief Eric: this year we have to. Yes. I have to commit to Formula One for one more year.

Executive Producer Tania: Everything’s changing and there’s new cars and everything, so new drivers, new teams.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of new cars, but not new teams, you posted a link to the Twitter feed for the new Toyota Hypercar. This looks really cool. Sort of a step away from what they’ve done before. Lots more airflow in this design. I like the front end. I like the sharpness. It’s got that GR 86 super kind of look to it.

But what do we think about, are we hopeful for Toyota and Laman this year? They’ve three years in a row. It’s been Ferrari’s game. It’s their year to lose.

Executive Producer Tania: Of course, we have to cheer for Ferrari and then I silently cheer for Poeo to do well.

Crew Chief Eric: I know, I know, right? Well, Porsche’s out. We know that. Porsche’s out.

Lamborghini’s out a hypercar. [01:15:00] So there’s two teams out. ’cause again, gotta pay for Formula One somehow. So Toyota’s still in the game. Hyundai’s coming. Ford is coming, probably not this year, but next year. I still think it would be smart if Ferrari got out, go out on a high.

Executive Producer Tania: Cadillac’s. Still there, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Cadillac’s still there. BMWI think is iffy, but I, if I recall, they’re committed for another year. And then I gotta look at who else is on the roster. But L and P one, P one GTP, whatever you wanna call it, is filling up, it’s getting bulky up there. So there’s a lot of people in contention, but Toyota coming with a new car, it’s still Ferrari’s race to lose if they commit this year.

So we’ll see. Time will tell. They have not announced the roster of cars that are going to be at this year’s running of Lamas. So we’ll see. The other thing I wanted to mention with respect to endurance racing, for anybody that’s been following our digital magazine for a while, you probably caught on last year, we are carrying Lepert Motor Sports Super T News and they do endurance races of all lengths [01:16:00] around the world, especially Asia and Europe and so on.

So there’s like six hours of Dubai, did you know those? A 24 hours Yas Marina, places like that. It’s super cool. So we get all of their press information and then, you know, we run it as part of the magazine. So if you’re interested in more forms of endurance racing than maybe you weren’t familiar with, check out.

Articles that we’re putting out following Leaper Motorsport. There’s other teams that you can follow in that series, but I think it’s really cool to check out, you know, the super TRO racing and whatnot. It’s actually pretty good racing. I mean, the, when they’re together as a spec series, the cars are very, very competitive and it’s a lot of fun to see a bunch of R eights going, oh, did I say that out loud?

Uh, a bunch of Lamborghinis running together on track now, you know, we talked about Christmas presents. What we didn’t get, I actually got a couple things during the winter break. I got project motor racing and I got a Seto rally, so I wanted to follow up on that. And I also wanted to follow up on the update to a Seto Evo.

Project motor racing is project cars two, race skin the way it should have been, instead of the [01:17:00] pitiful disgraceful disappointment. That was Project Cars three, which was two cartoony and two Forza, you know, and all the things that people hated about Project Cars three. So Project Motor Racing takes us back to Project Cars two and does everything right that it’s supposed to do.

It has its own issues. It’s being updated. It gets better with every patch. You know, they’re, they are taking the advice of the fans and making changes, and they’re doing them in pretty rapid order, which is pretty cool. A Seto rally came outta the gate swinging, looks amazing. Didn’t come with a ton of tracks, stages, or cars.

They released their winter pack during these winter months. It added snow. And it added a test track in Italy, but it’s just a test track. It’s not a winter stage in Sweden or Monte Carlo or anywhere else where they run rally stages in the wintertime and they added a, a couple new cars. But it’s sort of like you’re waiting for that.

Okay, gimme the rest of it. Moment. Is it good? Yes. Is it amazing? Absolutely. Is it visually stunning? Check, check, check, check. All the things [01:18:00] that a Seto Evo was not Aceto. Evo always looked good, but the physics was wha and the tracks were, eh, and the cars were, you just couldn’t get over the fact that it was like pre alpha code that they were giving us in a Seto.

Evo now Evo and rally under the same design house of simulators, but developed by two entirely different units inside of that same house. So rally by one team. Evo by another. What’s interesting is Evo jumped massively when they released version 0.4. So their fourth release of a set of Evo, that’s when they introduced the Ferrari F 40 lm, bunch of other cars, new tracks and stuff.

And I tell you what, man, I have been driving the heck out of it now. The physics has improved. Handling’s improved. Some of the cars are very fragile. Like I love driving the F 40. It puts a smile on my face. The gearbox is absolute garbage, but you get it something like an NSX or a nine 11 Turbo, and they’re a lot of fun to drive.

You don’t really have to [01:19:00] worry about them. They’re a lot stronger. They’re like indestructible in comparison to the F 40, but the F 40, they, the sound alone just puts a smile on my face and running it at tracks like Mila and Monza and you know, all the famous Italian tracks. It’s just, oh, it’s so good. I am very hopeful now for a set of evos.

So I’m hoping that, you know, version five and six and seven that they put out, ’cause they’re on this supposedly monthly, but it’s more like when they feel like it release schedule that it’s only gonna continue to progress and it’s going to get where they promised us it would be. So those are my top three titles right now.

Granted the fact that Lamont’s Ultimate JDM, drift Masters, solar Crowns, they’re all, they were all updated during the winter months. It just takes me a whole bunch of time to go back and kind of mess with them and play with them and, and get a feel. So it’s hard to jump between games ’cause then you, you gotta get used to the physics all over again ’cause they’re all very different.

But really happy with what’s coming out of Project Motor Racing and the Aceto Rally and Seto Evo stuff. So, good stuff there. Brad, I mean, you were a drag racer in your younger years. I’m not [01:20:00] as directly connected to this last bit of Motorsport news here. John Force officially announced his retirement.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s about time,

Crew Chief Eric: 16 time NHRA champion. I. You almost don’t have enough digits to put rings on at that point. You know what I mean?

Crew Chief Brad: It’s ally putting him on his to

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Right. A fill in both feet. Yeah. Go for the full 20. So yeah, John Forcet retires. That doesn’t mean his kids aren’t still drag racing.

The forced daughters and, and all them. So there’s a lot still going on in the John Forcet dynasty.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. And I, I think he’s still affiliated with the team. He’s just not driving

Crew Chief Eric: anymore. Yeah. So it’s not the last we’ve seen of John. It’s just he’s not gonna be driving anymore. And you know, at his age.

That’s probably smart. Probably smart.

Crew Chief Brad: Yep.

Executive Producer Tania: Or it’s the traumatic brain injury he suffered in 2024 from a crash.

Crew Chief Brad: That too.

Crew Chief Eric: Why do you have to rain on my parade

this year? Our Motorsports News is brought to you in part by Enduros, powered by Hyper [01:21:00] Dev America’s premier endurance racing community. So check it out online and become a member@www.endur.com.

This year’s GTM Trackside report is gonna take a slightly different turn for 2026. Instead of talking about, you know, who, what, when and where of HPE track days and all that kind of thing. We’re gonna use this spot to talk about our latest adventure in racing. And what is that exactly? Well, we bought a car because we’re gonna go 24 hours of lemons.

Endurance racing. Woo. We did not use Brad’s pumpkin spice. Although that was a $500 special, we found another 500 car, two $500 cars in one Y. That’s like, we might as well play the lottery or at least get SHA GPT to play the lottery for us. Right. You heard about that, right? We got a Ford [01:22:00] Focus. For 500 bucks and we’re gonna go racing and it’s gonna be awesome and we’re gonna talk about the progress we’re making, things like that.

So the first step, you know, acquire the car for the right amount of money, you know, playing to the lemons rules. Go check out 24 hour hours of lemons.com so you can kind of get up to speed of what we’re talking about. If you don’t know next stages, we’re taking it off to the cage builder to get all the safety stuff put in fire suppression seats.

You know, all that kind of thing. So that’s the next phase of the project and we’re gonna go on from there. We are gonna have an opportunity for people to get involved with the team. So look for an announcement about that very soon. Look to our show notes for how you can be part of the team and put air quotes around that, how you can help us reach our goal.

We’re actually doing this not only just for the fun of racing, but for a good cause as well. So if you’re looking to donate or be involved, or be there, live with us as a VIP, there’ll be a bunch of opportunities to do that. So we will, uh, we’ll send that link along in the show notes so you can check it out.

And I will say, you know, we’re going into this. We already got a rival. We got a rival in this field. Can you believe it? It’s [01:23:00] another podcasting team. So Bill and Vicki from Garage Hero in training. If you are listening to this, which I know Bill listens to this show, we’re gonna see you on track. We’re gonna be there.

Look out for us. GTM Garage Hero in training. Oh. 24 hours, 11 all year.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you’re not quite ready to hit the track, don’t forget that you can find tons of upcoming local shows and events at the ultimate reference for car enthusiasts, collector car guide.net.

Executive Producer Tania: Be sure to jump back into our podcast catalog and check out other programs we offer, like the Ferrari marketplace, the motoring historian evening with a legend, the Racers round table break fix.

And of course, the drive-through season six isn’t quite over yet. So stay tuned through February for some awesome episodes.

Crew Chief Brad: And if you enjoy our various podcasts, there’s a great way for you to support our creators on the MPN. There’s tons of extras and bonuses to explore on our updated Patreon page. You can learn more about our bonus and behind the scenes content, get early access to upcoming episodes, and consider becoming a break fix [01:24:00] VIP when you visit patreon.com/gt motorsports.

As always, thank you to our co-host and executive producer Tanya.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, we gotta change your title, we gotta change your title. This year she’s gonna be team principal.

Crew Chief Brad: Team Principal Tanya Bono.

Executive Producer Tania: Pando.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you gonna wear your hair? Like straight up like Beekman?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh my god.

Crew Chief Eric: Team principal Tanya. That’s that’s what we’re gonna call her.

Crew Chief Brad: Yes. Yes. Uh, and always thank you to our co-host and executive producer and team principal Tanya, and to all the fans, friends and family who support Grant touring motor sports, as well as the Motoring Podcast network. Without you. None of this would be possible. And tro and first of all, can I just say that all of my segments here, all of my statements here start with and all four of them

Executive Producer Tania: and,

Crew Chief Brad: and, and, and I mean, a [01:25:00] wouldn’t a quick Google search answer that question for us?

I have no idea. ’cause I’m just now opening the show notes. Because you’re never more prepared than when you’re unprepared.

Crew Chief Eric: Hundred percent. Hundred percent.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Who wrote this shit?

Executive Producer Tania: The drive through is our monthly news episode and is sponsored in part by organizations like Collector Car guide.net Project, motoring Garage Style Magazine, the Exotic Car Marketplace, and many others. If you’re interested in becoming a sponsor of the Drive-Through, look no further than www.motoringpodcast.net, click about, and then advertising.

Thank you again to everyone that supports the Motoring Podcast Network, grand Touring Motorsports, our podcast Break Fix, and all the other services we [01:26:00] provide.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00:00 Hosts Reconnect and Reflect on Past Episodes
00:00:57 Winter Recap: Automotive Industry Updates
00:02:38 EU’s 2035 Combustion Engine Ban Relaxation?
00:03:52 Ford’s EV Strategy Overhaul
00:06:04 Diesel’s Comeback and Hybrid Innovations at VAG
00:08:35 Jaguar’s Design Controversy and Audi’s New Look
00:12:41 Volkswagen’s New Models and Market Strategy
00:14:50 Jeep’s Military-Exclusive Wrangler and Other Stellantis News
00:17:27 Hellcat-Powered Pacifica and Grand Wagoneer Review
00:23:30 Asian Cars: Kei Cars and Hyundai’s G90 Magma Wagon
00:30:47 Future Electric Vehicles: Concepts and Controversies
00:39:22 Design Quirks: The Hoffmeister Kink!
00:40:11 The Bezos Truck and EV Lineup Speculations
00:40:45 Lost and Found: Rare Car Discoveries
00:43:40 Tesla’s Cybertruck Sales in decline!
00:48:58 Rental Car Reviews: Elantra, Soul, and Altima
01:09:32 Florida Man at the Circle K
01:12:19 Motorsports News and Updates
01:21:34 24 Hours of Lemons Racing Adventure
01:23:15 Outro!

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