News – Gran Touring Motorsports

Liepert Motorsports Impressive Performance Despite Unfavorable BoP at Malaysia 12H

Motorsports

Intensive Preparation and Strong Qualifying

Thursday was fully dedicated to extensive track time, allowing the drivers to get to grips with the car and circuit. For three of the four drivers, it was their first time at Sepang — and a crucial day to practice key procedures such as driver changes and pit stops. The weekend also marked the GT3 race debut for all four drivers — and with the exception of Hampus, none had previously driven a GT3 car. Their progress was clearly visible and carried over seamlessly into Friday.

Photo courtesy Liepert Motorsport
Photo courtesy Liepert Motorsport
Photo courtesy Liepert Motorsport
Photo courtesy Liepert Motorsport
Photo courtesy Liepert Motorsport

Qualifying further confirmed this upward trend. Hampus Ericsson set the third-fastest lap time, which was unfortunately deleted due to a track limits infringement. Based on the average time from all three qualifying sessions, the team secured eighth place on the grid.

Race Start Incident – Strong Comeback Over 12 Hours

Starting driver Marcus Ericsson delivered a very strong opening stint. However, after around 30 minutes, the team suffered an unexpected technical issue: a rear wing bracket broke, requiring an unscheduled pit stop and wing replacement. The stop cost the team valuable laps, initially dropping the Lamborghini to the back of the field. From that point on, the four drivers began a focused comeback. The Huracán ran flawlessly for the remainder of the race, allowing the team to deliver a consistent and error-free

“For our driver line-up, this was a weekend full of firsts – which makes it all the more impressive how quickly they adapted and how professionally they approached the challenge,” said Managing Directors Marc Poos and Marcel Leipert. “It proved especially valuable to have such an experienced driver like Marcus Ericsson on board — not only for his performance on track, but also as a clear leader for the rest of the team. The BoP classification for this event, however, was unfortunate. Although an adjustment was made during the race weekend, it wasn’t enough to properly balance the car’s performance.”

Nonetheless, the team was very satisfied with both the drivers and the overall performance. Leipert Motorsport will be back in action in just a few weeks: the next race is the 6H of Abu Dhabi on January 9–10, followed by the 24H of Dubai on January 17–18.

About Liepert Motorsport

Leipert Motorsport was founded in 2002 and became one of Europe’s top GT-Teams in Sprint- and Endurance-Racing. Spreading its GT-Engagement even wider across the continental borders, this step is the logical consequence for the German team after being a front runner and championship winning team in multiple competitions.

Carrying the Shelby Legacy Forward: A Conversation with Aaron Shelby

Eric M

-

December 9, 2025

0

Carrying the Shelby Legacy Forward: A Conversation with Aaron Shelby

The Break/Fix Podcast has always been about capturing the living history of the automotive world – stories from racers, wrench-turners, designers, authors, and enthusiasts who’ve shaped car culture. In this episode, we welcomed Aaron Shelby, grandson of the legendary Carroll Shelby, to explore what it means to carry one of the most iconic names in motorsports into the future.

For Aaron, Carroll Shelby wasn’t just a racing icon – he was simply “Grandpa.” Born in 1971, Aaron spent his childhood between Dallas and Los Angeles, visiting Carroll at his wheel company office or swimming at his Marina del Rey apartment. Much of their time together was spent at Carroll’s East Texas farm, where family weekends were filled with stories, food experiments, and the famous chili that became a Shelby trademark.

Still available at your local grocery store

It wasn’t until Aaron’s teenage years that he began to understand the scope of Carroll’s influence. By then, Carroll had reemerged in the car world through his partnership with Chrysler, bringing the Shelby name back into headlines and onto racetracks.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Aaron’s first car wasn’t a Shelby – it was a humble Acura Integra. Guided by his parents, he learned the value of starting small before stepping into performance vehicles.

Professionally, Aaron pursued finance, eventually becoming a banking executive in Dallas. But when Carroll passed, Aaron was asked to step into the family legacy. With his business acumen and passion for motorsports, he now serves on the board of Carroll Shelby International, helping steward the brand into the future.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode features an in-depth interview with Aaron Shelby, the grandson of legendary automotive icon Carroll Shelby. Aaron discusses his upbringing surrounded by automotive history, his efforts to preserve and expand the Shelby name, and his role on the board of Carroll Shelby International. The conversation covers various aspects of the Shelby legacy, from iconic vehicles and racing history to the importance of auto tech education and the Carroll Shelby Foundation’s charitable work. Aaron also shares insights into future projects and developments at Shelby American, including new vehicle lines and international expansion, while emphasizing the brand’s core values of innovation and performance.

Growing up as the grandson of Carroll Shelby, what are some of your earliest memories of the Shelby name and its impact on car culture?
How has your perspective on your grandfather’s legacy evolved as you’ve taken on a more active role in preserving it?
Shelby has always been synonymous with performance and racing innovation—how do you see that spirit carrying forward in today’s motorsport landscape? And in the media (Ford V Ferrari, etc.)?
Are there particular races, cars, or moments from the Shelby racing legacy that resonate most deeply with you?
What are some of the biggest challenges you face in keeping the Shelby name relevant to both lifelong fans and younger generations? How do we keep younger people interested in racing, tuning, engineering, etc.?
If Carroll were alive today, what do you think he’d say about the direction of racing, particularly with electric and hybrid technology becoming more prevalent?
Shelby cars have always embodied a blend of American ingenuity and performance—how do you ensure that DNA remains intact in current and future projects?
When you think about the future of the Shelby legacy, what excites you most, and how do you personally hope to shape that vision? And what’s next for Shelby?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The Road to Success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Today on Break Fixx, we’re honored to welcome Aaron Shelby, grandson of the legendary Carroll Shelby. And while his grandfather forever changed the automotive and racing world with iconic machines like the Cobra and the GT 40. Aaron has carved out his own path and is a steward of that legacy,

Max Kaiserman: serving on the board of Carroll Shelby International, and leading efforts to preserve and expand the Shelby name.

Aaron Blends business acumen with a deep passion for motorsports and automotive culture. In this conversation, we’ll dive into what it means to carry on one of the most recognizable names in racing [00:01:00] history, how Aaron connects the past to the present and the exciting ways he’s keeping the Shelby spirit alive for future generations.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, and joining me tonight is returning guest. Max Kaiserman, who you might remember from our Luna Replicas episode. So welcome back, max.

Aaron Shelby: I see you.

Crew Chief Eric: And with that, let’s welcome Aaron to break fix.

Aaron Shelby: Hey guys, happy to be here today.

Crew Chief Eric: Normally we would start out an episode, tell us your superhero origin story, but you are the descendant of a superhero.

So let’s talk about growing up as the grandson of Carol Shelby. What are some of your earliest memories of your grandfather and the Shelby name and the impact that it had on you? The impact that you saw in car culture?

Aaron Shelby: Sure. You know, I was born in 1971, so my first decade roughly, Carol wasn’t in the car world.

We split some time. I was born in Dallas, we lived in LA for a bit. He and my father were partners in a company called Carol Shelby Wheels, a manufactured aluminum wheels in the garden area of Los Angeles. And so I would go up to the office every now and then as a little kid, and he would be up there sometimes, but it was just grandpa.

I’ve got a brother that’s two years [00:02:00] younger and we’d hang out with him a little bit. He lived in Marina del Rey in a high rise apartment that had a pool. I remember, you know, a number of times my mom taking us over there to go swim in the pool and hang out with him for lunch. And you know, a lot of ways, very typical.

We spent a ton of time with him in his farm in East Texas. That was where he was from originally. That’s where he always liked to go and recharge. And so we do a lot of. Family weekends out there when he was in town and he was just Carol, there was no car business out there. He never brought up car business.

He didn’t talk about it at all unless you really poked on him with it. Most everybody that saw him in East Texas was somebody he knew from high school or family, friends or cousins, and they didn’t talk about it. They were just, Hey, remember this time in 1940 when we did this and you know, we hung out and did this after school or whatever.

It was just very typical from that perspective. Until my teenage years,

Crew Chief Eric: almost like you were talking to a veteran of like a foreign war or something like that. It’s like, we won’t talk about it unless you ask me about it. Right.

Aaron Shelby: That’s exactly right. And one funny thing from him from that time period, you know, it, it changed as technology changed, but the man [00:03:00] lived on the telephone.

And he had this phone book that was like a Bible. It was huge. You know, assistant would type it all up and he had everybody’s phone number in there. And when he’d get a little bored, he’d just sit there and dial people’s numbers up and talk and see what was going on. And sometimes it was business related, sometimes just catching up with friends, but.

Every now and then he’d start yelling at somebody on the phone. And that was, you know, later in life that was, seemed to be his way to, uh, lead in or manage people. As the louder I yell, the more it’s gonna happen. And he’d always kind of do it with a smile on his face. I mean, it wasn’t, I don’t think out of anger necessarily ever, but it was just, that was his methodology on getting his point across loud.

Texans. Yes, exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of last year, we had the privilege of having Leanne Patterson on, who was actually one of Carol’s PR folks, especially during the Dodge years. Yes. And she made it sound like every time you went to the ranch, quote unquote, there was always a pot of chili ready, and it was Carol’s secret sauce, and it was very down to earth.

Is that exactly, I mean, does it play out like that? That

Aaron Shelby: was pretty much it. You know, Carol was, um, an experimenter in the kitchen, let’s say. He, he did know how to cook things [00:04:00] and some things he cooked were really good. Could he do it again the next day? Probably not because he didn’t pay much attention to what he was doing or how he did it.

But yeah, there was definitely some surprise pots of things every now and then. And then there was some really good stuff that he cooked. You know, he had friends that raised cattle out there and he’d go buy fresh steaks and have a big freezer full of those. And it was like, oh, just go grab a few steaks outta the freezer.

We’ll do those tomorrow night for dinner. And at a bit of it, I’ll actually take back to his childhood and growing up in the depression era where his family did not have a lot. His ability to then make his own stuff and gather what he wanted from a food perspective, I think always played to him. And then later in life, you know, after his heart transplant particularly, he lost a lot of his sense of taste.

And so things that to him tasted good, were always a little strong to everybody else. Whether it was too salty or too hot or whatever. He was just trying to elicit some kind of taste outta it. It was definitely interesting and I had some, some good things and some interesting things out there.

Max Kaiserman: You know, the slogan for the, uh, Carol Shelby Chili is Fix it the way you like it.

There’s like a pound of hot powder in there you could add to it. That’s exactly

Aaron Shelby: right. And that’s what he wanted you to do. I mean, he knew [00:05:00] everybody was different. He wanted you to be able to customize that. And you talk about the chili, that was one of his just kind of whims of he caught lightning in a bottle there and just, it really worked for him.

Max Kaiserman: Still made today. It is, you know, coming from this family and, and with Carol’s legacy, what, what is your background? What did you find yourself at throughout life? So I’m

Aaron Shelby: a numbers guy. I’m not necessarily an idea guy, although I have a few of them, but nothing like Carol did. And then when my father started racing cars when I was eight, formula Ford’s initially at like Riverside and Willow Springs and places like that.

And your father was Michael, right? Patrick. Patrick. Oh, so he was the youngest son. He’s the youngest of the three? Correct. And you’re the older of your I’m the oldest of the grandkids. I’m the oldest of my brothers, but I’m the oldest of the six grandkids as well. Cool. You start to get. A little more of that Shelby history.

And then right on the heels of that, Carol joined Chrysler, the Dodge Years as I call him for the 1980s. All of a sudden, he’s on magazine covers again, and all the stories are talking about the Shelby history [00:06:00] from the sixties and where’s Carol been for the last 10 years, and which is a whole nother.

Story we’ll get into, and there he is in the car world again. And so I gotta go to some pretty neat races. When I was a kid, I went to the Las Vegas Grand Prix in 1982 I think it was. He was a Grand Marshall, so my mom and I flew over and met him there, and that’s when I met Mario Andretti. And so there’s certain things like that that popped up, but it really wasn’t until later, probably my teenage years that.

I began to understand more the scope of his history, what he and the team at Shelby American created and where he was going in with his life. What was your first car? Let’s see, probably a year old, maybe a year and a half old. Acura Integra. There was a base model with a five speed, and I loved it. It was great.

It was a good first car. I really wanted one of the Dodge Shelby cars. Probably pestered Carol for a year and wanted like the Shelby Lancer, the Daytona or whatever at the time, and he said, absolutely not. You need something that you can learn on and then maybe you can get one of these later on. My mom went out and bought this Acura for me and gave it to me when I turned 16.

It was awesome. [00:07:00] I loved it and had a couple of Acura after that and enjoyed ’em all. When I got outta school, I was a finance major. I went into banking and my grandmother and her side of the family, so Carol’s first wife, they’re, I could say prototypical Texans. They were an oil and gas and real estate and banking and all those things.

When dad sold the wheel company in the late eighties, he bought into a small bank in the Dallas market that my grandmother had ownership in and became chairman. And so I didn’t start there initially, but wound my way up there in 2003. And have been in that bank for, you know, 22 years now, almost 23 years.

So that’s where I’m comfortable, you know, do a lot of lender finance. We’ve sold the bank a couple of times now, so we don’t, family-wise, we don’t have much ownership there, but that’s my daily job run. Dallas-Fort Worth for this bank, in addition to our single family mortgage group, was really opportune for me on the side 10 plus years ago, almost 12 years ago now, to be able to jump into the Shelby world, it’s something I always had a passion about.

But it was Carol, you know, there wasn’t a succession plan in his mind [00:08:00] on I want this family member to be involved or that family member. My dad, like I said, was in racing. He’s always been passionate about the cars. My uncles liked it as well, but neither of them were wanting to step into that role, and so they asked me to come in and, and take a shot at it, and I’ve enjoyed it immensely.

So I think bringing that finance background that I have. Whether you’re talking about the foundation side of things and what we do or the business side of things, I do help Gary quite a bit when it comes to budgeting and kind of talking through numbers, and so I enjoy that. That’s what I bring to the table and just, I also look at what Carol did for so many years and he just made people feel comfortable.

You know, he made him feel like family and he made him feel like it’s just another guy you’re sitting down and talking to. And so I spend a lot of time with that as well. In today’s enthusiast world, we have the Texas Concourses Dallas area, and we had a little panel and a couple of guys have known Carol for.

35, 40 years, and they both said the same thing. He’s like, he was just somebody you could sit down next to and have a three hour conversation about fishing in the Gulf of Mexico and you never talk about cars. But he knew about it. You know, he just could talk about anything. And he made it about you. He [00:09:00] made it about what your interests were, not what he was interested in.

He would throw his knowledge in, of course, with different questions, but that’s really kind of where I saw he was successful and what’s helped that brand grow. And so that’s, you know, where my background is and where I try and carry us forward today.

Max Kaiserman: How have you seen the evolution of his legacy and how you’ve interacted with the legacy as you’ve become more involved with it?

Aaron Shelby: One of the best things that he wound up doing in life was joining back with Ford Motor Company in 2003, four timeframe. Obviously the next new Shelby didn’t come out till oh six, but that first couple years and just putting him back in that fold and with that team at Ford at that point in time, Edsel being a prime driver behind all that happening.

Really reenergized him. You think about that he was getting, you know, late sixties, early seventies, really, probably early seventies at that point in time. The end of the nineties was a struggle for him financially and business wise. He was, I wouldn’t say lost. There was plenty going on in his life, but there wasn’t a lot of constant in his life and.

That joining back [00:10:00] together with Ford and what that created for the last 10 years of his life was really critical to not just his personal wellbeing, but the brand today being what it represents. Had he not done that, I think we would be looking at a much different Shelby brand today than we are.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t wanna discount the Chrysler years though, because.

As we know, Carol went to Chrysler because of Lee Iacocca, who was with him at Ford. And there’s all that partnership and friendship there. But the Viper and the Viper coup, which are basically the next generation Cobra and then Daytona coup are in their own right classics. I mean, they’re amazing vehicles.

I I don’t wanna shortchange them in any way. So is there anything happening between Shelby and Chrysler in the foreseeable future?

Aaron Shelby: Not at this point in time. You, you never say never on anything. Those were important years. I look at him as important ’cause it was my teenage years. So that’s kind of when I saw Carroll get in the car business and he and his team did a lot with a little, he first got over to Chrysler.

I think the comment was, you can go to our parts bin, but we don’t have a whole lot. We have no money to give you to do anything. Just [00:11:00] see what you can put together here. And I think for a 10 plus year partnership, they did a really good job. Putting out some fun cars. Carol was always really proud of the work was done with Chrysler and the vehicles that came out.

Given, again, kind of the budgetary constraints, the engine technology at the time, and doing those little turbo four cylinders. He had a lot of fun with that. Obviously culminating into Viper, which was how do you hit it outta the park? More than that, as a. Final feature before you leave. So really neat. We have a 92 Dodge Viper in our family collection.

I think it’s a really important piece of Shelby history that he was involved in that project, and I’ve been fortunate to be able to meet a lot of the team members that worked with him on that through the years. And it’s a scary car. Kinda like the four 20 seven’s a scary car, but it’s a important piece of Shelby history and in that important piece of Dodge and Chrysler and Shelby history as well.

Crew Chief Eric: So since we’re still waxing poetic about the Shelby legacy and a lot of the really cool cars that people identify with, like the GT 40 and the three. 50 and all those. There’s a couple unsung heroes in this list, and I’m not talking about the Omni GLHS or the Daytona or any of those cars. [00:12:00] What I’m referring to specifically is sort of that middle period there.

And you alluded to it earlier, Aaron, where Carol was experimenting, he was still trying to be in the car world and there were some offshoots. You had the series one, the series two, and then the V 10 Cobra concept in 2004, which is not too far off of the copperhead concept that Chrysler had put together.

So I wanna show a little love. For those cars. For the people out there that really like those and hope that they had gone into mass production, how are they reflected in the celebration of Shelby?

Aaron Shelby: The series one particularly, is an important vehicle. I’ll be real upfront. It’s my least favorite Shelby because I know the history of it and kind of the about bankrupted him, and I just knew a lot of the behind the scenes.

But from a engineering perspective and a company perspective, it’s really important. It’s actually the only ground up Shelby ever made as far as. Chassis created from nothing and just truly ground up. So there is that important part of Shelby history in that vehicle. We have one in our collection. You know, there was only 249 that got produced ultimately, uh, they were shooting for 500 and they just [00:13:00] didn’t have the money, nor the desire, I think, in the public to buy ’em at that point.

But I tell you, if I take that thing to a cars in coffee today, it turns heads. ’cause nobody ever sees one. And so I think from that perspective, they know it’s a Shelby. It, it’s not like some of our modern cars that have Shelby all over it. It has series one badging and you see Shelby on there one or two places and that’s it.

So you gotta know what it is and we get a lot of, particularly with the kids that don’t have any idea what it is, they get fascinated with it. You know, another interesting one, if you go back to the, the sixties timeframe is the Sunbeam tiger. And a lot of people don’t know what Carol had to do with that one.

And it’s unfor, I don’t fit in those cars, so I don’t have one. But, uh, does anybody

Crew Chief Eric: fit in those?

Aaron Shelby: It’s a neat little piece of history, you know, getting that 2 89 motor in there and, and really turning that thing into a fun little car. So. You look at that stuff, and it was Ford’s project, but the Shelby GR one, which was kind of an updated Daytona coup prototype car, if you want, came out around oh four.

So that car still looks fantastic today. It’s amazing how many people ask, well, why don’t you just license that? Start doing that on your own from Ford. I’ll be honest, super performance looked at it a while [00:14:00] back. It’s just kind of too difficult, unfortunately in today’s world to do something like that, but that design is really iconic.

You mentioned the V 10 Cobra, Chris Theodore that was on that team that did that, he actually bought it a number of years ago, hashed out the motor to make it work again. You know, it was an Unrun prototype. When they got rid of it, they plugged up the motor and all that. Well, he cleaned the whole thing out and got it running again, and he’s since sold it at auction.

But I just had somebody ping me wanting to know. We wanted to buy it. It’s coming back up for sale again. So it’s a neat piece of history as well. And I think there’s a lot of Shelby prototypes that are littered through there that will continue to gain value through the years. You look at what Craig Jackson has and the Little Red and the Green Hornet mustangs that were prototyped vehicles that tested different parts and just the story around that stuff.

It’s what continues the legacy to be as strong as it is today.

Crew Chief Eric: Can we give a little bit of credit to the instinct? Success. That was the GT 500 KR that came out a couple years after his return to Ford. I mean, that was a monster of a Mustang that hit the roads.

Aaron Shelby: It really was. And I think between oh seven and 12, that whole run of both Mustangs that Ford put together and [00:15:00] Shelby did with Ford’s help really just re-energized the Mustang brand, the Ford brand, and Shelby.

And what it meant to be a performance car company. Obviously the GT and oh five and oh six was a top-notch vehicle. I don’t want to discount that at all, but very limited and not everybody could obtain one of those. When you talk about the every man sports car in the Shelby Mustang, that really was the launchpad for where we are today.

Max Kaiserman: Shelby has become. Was even in the sixties in its own time periods, the synonymous with performance and racing and racing accessibility specifically. You go buy a Mustang and drive it to work on a Friday and drive to the track on a Saturday, it became a lot more accessible. And how do you see that spirit carrying forward today?

Is racing still accessible? Is the Shelby name still accessible?

Aaron Shelby: Yeah, I think we’ve evolved a little bit. I would love to get us. Personally back into racing. We’re not today. Obviously our cars are very performance driven and we encourage everybody to go take ’em to the track and have fun with them, but there’s not [00:16:00] necessarily a team component and certainly not a Shelby team component at the track today.

That’s something I think, and I’m speculating a bit ’cause I wasn’t in the room, but when Ford and Shelby were working on things back in oh seven to 10 to 12, Ford had some racing programs and ultimately when the three 50 came out, they did run that as a GT three car for a bit. I think that was important, but they really have their own racing umbrella, so it’s up to us if we wanna do that.

And I will say a step we’re taking in that direction next year is working with Turnkey Automotive. And what we have is our GT three 50 R model coming out for the TransAm Spec series next year. It’s not gonna be us running it, we’re gonna do it as a customer car to start with. But that’s kind of getting our toe back into the official racing waters,

Max Kaiserman: but it’s still available to the public.

It’s something that through SCCA or FIA, people could enter their own cars on a weekend or something. Exactly,

Aaron Shelby: and that’s

Max Kaiserman: the whole

Aaron Shelby: point of this one. So what you’ve got is your production stuff that any of our stuff you could take to the track today and have some fun with on a production basis. But this is gonna be more track geared under TransAm rules and it’ll be available to [00:17:00] anybody that wants to buy one and go race in that series.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s really interesting you bring that up because as of this year, Ford has. Campaign, the whole Dark Horse series as part of IMSA and the G, the lower GT three support races and things. And so are you aiming to compete against the Dark Horse with the dark horse as a replacement too? How is that gonna play out politically?

Aaron Shelby: So we talked to Ford about that a little bit. We specifically picked the TransAm series because Ford’s not corporately involved there. So it’s not a direct competition there. There are some of the drivers that race Mustang based cars. I won’t deny that, but there’s no Ford backing. Ford doesn’t have a sponsorship agreement with TransAm, et cetera.

So that was part of our choice. In addition to Turnkey, who’s helping us build those cars out of Michigan right now has a long history with the TransAm series and is well respected for creating some of their race cars, whether Camaro based or otherwise, over the last 10 years. And so they’ve helped us kind of navigate those political waters with TransAm and.

That we thought was a good entry point for us so that we’re not in direct conflict with Ford.

Crew Chief Eric: So I’ll add to this, ’cause [00:18:00] normally I ask this next question to our pro drivers about how they feel about something called BOP or balance of performance. Mm-hmm. So let’s just say a Shelby car comes to the forefront and is gonna run against.

The rest of the makes in, let’s say, GT three and IMSA or in WEC or at LAMA or something like that. How do you feel, let’s say, if you were the team principal about the balance of performance, do you think it would be in Shelby’s favor or against,

Aaron Shelby: I’ve watched this a lot in the last, well, I’ll say last 10 years.

I mean, when I started going in 16, when Ford went back with the GT and, and whether MSO or, or the a CO or, or wc. I don’t know that there’s a secret sauce to balance the performance. I think it’s a trial by error. And as soon as somebody other than Ferrari, I’ll say, gets out in front too far, they like to just reel ’em back in.

Whether it’s dialing back horsepower or putting more weight on you or doing something and it, it doesn’t seem to have a lot of rhyme or reason to it. And you talk to some of the team owners, doesn’t matter to the make, and they get a little frustrated with how it works ’cause they feel like they’re all being anchored back somehow from performance.

So from a Shelby [00:19:00] perspective, I like to think we’d be a little innovative and get out there with something that would blow everybody away. The first couple races. Then we’d have to get dialed back. That’s looking at our history and looking at, I think, where we would evolve into things.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m glad you you phrased it that way because I think at the heart of that is the ingenuity that American ingenuity that was brought to the forefront with the Shelby brand.

Something that I think a lot of us still continue to hang our hats on is it’s that roll up your sleeves to tenacity of, you know, never given up and wanting to win, and all the crazy stories that come out of that. Over the years, the Shelby cars obviously have embodied that. How do you ensure that that DNA.

That idea that ethos remains intact with current and future projects at Shelby.

Aaron Shelby: So for me, I’ll say I’ve got the easy role in this right now. The hard part of that falls on the team at Shelby American in Las Vegas, Gary Patterson, our CEO and President, and Vince La Violette, who’s our chief engineer and development officer there.

They both spent a lot of time working directly with Carol. These aren’t new hats to this. You guys may have probably met both of them through the years. They know Carol, they [00:20:00] know what he wanted. And they carry that DNA into the company today for any new associates, employees that come in and trying to train up what we’re doing, whether it’s working with our supplier partners and describing what we’re trying to accomplish with the vehicle or directly with the folks on the shop floor and just describing what the Shelby ethos looks like.

They have that burden more than I do, I think. ’cause I’m not there on a daily basis. You know, I act as a brand ambassador and I get to Vegas probably three or four times a year. But I meet with Gary probably every two weeks via phone call or something, so I know what’s going on. But they’re the ones that carry the mantle on innovation and efficiency and how do we push the envelope?

On something that maybe Ford couldn’t do because of, you know, they’re a big political company and there are just certain things they can’t do, and we’re gonna sell a hundred of something where they need to sell 5,000 of something to make it make sense. I don’t view it as pressure for me, I think it’s a live thing and it’s a live piece of Shelby DNA that we just try and instill through.

The various Shelby channels that we touch people with today.

Max Kaiserman: And I can say from the vintage perspective that I’m, I’m [00:21:00] sort of part of the vintage Shelby legacy of the sixties, what we do that’s incredibly alive and well. That is one of the most collectible cars, vintage GT three 50 or GT 500 Mustang.

They are still trading in the. Quarter million dollar range for a, a nice example. And people are very proud to have one. I have a clone, I have a 66, 3 50. Yeah. But even the Hertz legacy with Shelby Oh for sure. Has been renewed in just the last few years. The new GTS and the GT 500 H, you know, are now hitting the public because they’ve come off of the rental circuit.

It, it means something and

Aaron Shelby: that’s what is, I think if anything surprises me, it’s. The enthusiasm around the brand. I was just at the Goodwood Revival and while there was nothing Shelby specific this time, I just went to go have some fun and visit with some friends. You know, there was still a dozen cobras in two different classes that were racing.

There was two GT three 50 Rs that were racing in a separate race. And when you start to talk Shelby and you, if I wear my Shelby pitch shirt like you guys have on right now, people come up to you and ask you questions. There’s something about that brand and that. [00:22:00] Time period and the vintage cars and what they represent.

It’s just really special and it’s not something that can be recreated. You’ve got obviously a huge Porsche community in Corvette community and Ferrari community, but they’re different. One thing I hear repeatedly is how the Shelby community is like family. And it’s a small community based on comparing to some of those others.

But it’s a strong community and it is really all pulling in the same direction all the time, which I find interesting and, and a bit humbling. I think, to me, that’s something I didn’t expect when I started this 10 years ago.

Max Kaiserman: Well, the real hot rodders, and I think that’s the difference is, you know, a PORs.

You can buy a great Porsche outta the box. You can buy some of these other cars right out of the box. Uh, a Shelby Mustang, the original Daytona coup was a hot rotted and, and aluminum paneled modified British racing car from the fifties. I mean, like, and they, and it was winning. I mean, it was winning against purpose built cars.

Yep. In the mid sixties, Carol would say it’s an old car with buggy springs and, and they were getting it to win. To me, that’s the brotherhood. That’s somebody that says, we’re gonna put our [00:23:00] minds together. And anybody, the kids sweeping the floor might even have an idea that gets us an extra two seconds or something.

Exactly right. Peter Brock and Chuck Cantwell and you know, you name it, they’re still singing that song. Hey man, we were, we were a team. This was a real team.

Aaron Shelby: That’s exactly right. I was actually with both those guys at the SAC 50 out in Sonoma, you know, and Peter’s been a great friend to us. He’s in Las Vegas, so Vince and Gary involve him a lot.

And what we’re doing on the next car, so to speak. And they usually get him involved in looking at our design and the renderings. They love to have his input and I believe he just turned 89 years old. He is super active. His mind is still super sharp when it comes to talking aerodynamics and looks and what you want to see in today’s world.

And he was 20 when he did this stuff. It was crazy. He was a kid. Yeah. And Chuck is the same. I mean, what he added in that couple years that he was at Shelby, particularly the GT three 50 program, I guarantee you just talking to him today, he never envisioned that there would be this much celebration about that car.

60 years on. I mean, obviously he went on to a very [00:24:00] successful career with Penske and some other things later on, but we’re so fortunate to be able to have some of those. Folks that tie us to the past and tell their stories again, today, it’s uh, not gonna be many more years when we won’t have anybody left.

Unfortunately,

Max Kaiserman: also not for nothing. They are the nicest people in the world. Peter will sit there and talk to you for an hour. Chuck Cantwell. He’s so quiet. Sometimes you gotta lean in. But he has the greatest stories, you know, he does.

Aaron Shelby: And it’s just one of the things that I think. I certainly missed, I met some of these folks when I was younger around Carol, you know, I didn’t do a ton of events, but would show up every now and then.

I gotta meet Phil Hill and Dan Gurney and these guys, and, and I knew who they were, whether I was too shy or just didn’t know the questions I asked. I just kind of sat there and didn’t ask enough. I mean, I look back on it now, I’m like, well, I should ask ’em about this and that. I, I just didn’t, it wasn’t top of mind.

You know, these folks won’t be around forever, and I think that’s one of the neat things about all the vintage events today, whether it’s Goodwood or Sac, or Pebble Beach, whatever it is, they bring these guys together to tell their stories, to get their stories out to a wider audience.

Crew Chief Eric: So Aaron, you mentioned the Texas Concor this year at [00:25:00] Pebble Beach.

Shelby was the featured mark at the Concord to Elegance. Were you able to go out and participate and get involved in that?

Aaron Shelby: The team says Shelby kind of took over the peninsula on the weekend. I mean, we had an awesome weekend, not just. We had a team, Shelby group of enthusiasts, about 40 people out there.

But you know, at the track, obviously there’s always cobras and mustangs, but at the quail on Friday there was a GT three 50 class. We took our 65 R model out there for that. There was, I think, 12 cars in that class. It was great to see all those sitting there. In addition to Craig brought little red out for that, and in addition to two other prototype 60 sevens that were out there by their owners.

So really some neat recognition. Come into Sunday and you’ve got six cobras on the lawn at Pebble Beach. It was awesome that, you know, that kind of 65, 66 bumps up into the end of what they celebrate out there. So we were really fortunate to be able to have the cobras out there. Thursday, Gary Patterson and I were on a panel at Pebble Beach talking about Shelby history and, and what it means to be out there.

I was fortunate then to be able to give out the awards to the class winners in the Cobra class as well. A [00:26:00] lot of Shelby recognition. Really appreciate the team at Pebble Beach for helping put that on this year, and it was a special time for sure to celebrate the 60 years.

Max Kaiserman: Are there any historic races or current races that are still going, that are moments in Shelby racing that particularly resonate

Aaron Shelby: with you?

For me, I mean, it’s. The granddaddy of them all, so to speak, is the Lamont 24 hours. You know, Carol still is the only person to have won that as a driver, a manufacturer, and a team owner. I don’t think that’ll ever happen again. I just in, in today’s environment, how much it costs to go do that. I just don’t think it, it will.

So it’s a special place I try and go. Most years I was actually at Lamont in Lamont Classic this year, which was a lot of fun. The neat thing and we talk about the enthusiasts and the market that follows Shelby today, the French and the folks around Lama really appreciate the Shelby history there, winning it with Aston Martin in 59, and then the Daytona Coop winning its class in 64, and then obviously ultimately with the GTE forties under the Shelby umbrella in 66 and 67.

So there’s a lot of history and they appreciate that. Texan outlook, if you [00:27:00] will, and just what he came over and did more or less on a, I wouldn’t call it a shoestring budget with the gts, but it was a struggle to get there with the Daytona coops, and nobody expected anything outta that team. And this little ragtag bunch of Southern California guys came over and beat Ferrari.

It was, it was enormous at the time. And that still plays well over there.

Max Kaiserman: Well, I’d like to jump ahead real quick and talk about that for a second. The legacy of the hot Rodder, the chicken farmer that was beating Ferrari. Yeah. What do you see how that applies today? How do you, how do you get someone engaged in, Hey, you can do this too, we’re not special kind of thing.

Aaron Shelby: The best way to describe that part of the Carol Shelby Foundation today, one of our core pillars is auto tech education, and that is providing scholarship dollars for kids either while in high. School or usually a local community college to get their full auto tech degree and certificates on whatever it is that they need to work on.

And that’s a lot of what I talk about with these classes when I go talk to the kids. We’ve got five different schools around the country that we support with scholarship dollars in addition to. Several new car dealer associations that sponsor [00:28:00] different competitions and things that we provide some dollars to, and I talk about the opportunities that this can afford them.

You’re not having to pay for four years of your university. You’re getting usually a pretty inexpensive, if not free education, and there is a ready stream of jobs for this group to come out, whether it’s at a dealership or a mod shop or something like that. It can be a stepping stone. It’s not, I was telling somebody at lunch today.

You don’t qualify, get your certificate and go work on brake for the next 50 years. I mean, if you want to, you can, but you go work on brake for one or two years, then you move on to something else in the dealership and you move up and then all of a sudden you’re an assistant manager of the shop floor or you’re a manager of the shop floor and you’re making $250,000 a year.

We try and promote that side of it. There’s a different component to it where we have some internships that have come through Vegas. We don’t currently have any relationships. But in the past we’ve had some relationships with some NASCAR teams. We’d had internships out there. I’ve helped a couple of people get some jobs in the IMSA programs through the years.

There is that path. A lot of these kids just need a door to get open for them to get that opportunity. [00:29:00] Uh, to me it’s critical, I think, on how our society infrastructure is going to succeed going forward. We’ve gotta have those technical skills.

Max Kaiserman: You touched on earlier about Carol Shelby Foundation and the work you guys do with education.

Could you talk more about that?

Aaron Shelby: So Carol actually started the foundation after he had his heart transplants actually started up and officially was incorporated in 1996. We’re coming up on its 30 year anniversary next year, but it was a Shelby Heart Fund. Originally, he wanted to help families with children getting heart transplants.

That’s a pretty narrow scope that he realized pretty quickly and pretty expensive. So he broadened it. Through the years and now our focus is auto tech education as we discussed earlier. And then we also help families with children going through transplant care, not just hearts, but any kind of transplant.

So we work with five different transplant hospitals, pediatric

Max Kaiserman: transplant hospitals around the country. My best friend who I was just the best man at his wedding is a, uh, pediatric pediatric anesthesiologist Oh, wow. At Johns Hopkins. Yeah. Guys are linked in to Hopkins at all. I can get you connected with them.

Aaron Shelby: Yeah, that one [00:30:00] would be good. We use, uh, university of Pit. Bird Medical Center up there. We have a good relationship with, we’ve got one in Southern California, Loma Linda Children’s here in Dallas, one in Kansas City. A lot of these introductions start through our team Shelby Group meetings, and sometimes it’s somebody that they know and we do some local fundraising for them, and then we tie that relationship in, so it’s.

It’s impressive. I’d

Max Kaiserman: love to help with that in some way. Just Hopkins is huge on the East coast here. Of course. Major, major, major medical system.

Aaron Shelby: We also work with Children’s Organ Transplant Association out of Indianapolis. If you are a family in a rural area and your kid needs a kidney, a liver, whatever, they literally have a playbook for you.

This is what you need to think about. This is how you need to raise some funds to help yourself. You know, it’s not everybody that has a. Pediatric transplant hospital in their backyard. So it’s gonna involve a lot of travel and care for other family members or pets or travel and time off work. And Coda’s a great organization.

We do not have any kind of infrastructure to help with that, but we give money to Coda because they’ve got a staff that really helps families around the country. I think last year they helped 300 [00:31:00] families through that process. So you know, at the end of the day, the Carol Shelby Foundation is where Carol wanted his legacy to be remembered most.

And so having those core pillars of helping families with healthcare needs. And the auto tech education is critical for us to continue that Shelby legacy and brand.

Crew Chief Eric: See, I thought Max was gonna go in a totally different direction because I know his heart aligns with the Ford versus Ferrari movie ’cause some of the, the work he’s done with that.

So I’m wondering, going back to the California hot rodder and touching all those things you highlighted, let’s just dive into that for a second. How true. Was the movie to some of the stories, you know, or what did they get wrong and what did they get right?

Aaron Shelby: Some of the things that were correct. Obviously the overarching story is correct.

You are cramming five years into two hours, so there’s some things they gloss over, have to kind of Hollywood eyes to, so to speak. But the overall arching story is correct. It was this group that was not expected to do much. Became successful, got Ford’s wallet basically, and after their success to go make Ford successful.

And they did. There was a lot of politics involved. We’ve got [00:32:00] some commentary in our archives between Shelby executives and Ford and Ford executives and Pullman Moody and you know, the Ford executives were playing both those teams off of each other. That took place for sure, depending on who inside Ford had, what desire.

I think Matt Damon did a good job of getting Carol’s character across. I wasn’t necessarily a fan when I first heard he was gonna play Carol. I liked Matt a lot. I just didn’t see it. But he really did a good job bringing his character to life and I talked to him about it at the red carpet. I gotta meet him.

And I said, you know, you play a lot of real life characters. If you could look across his movie spectrum. How did you get into this role? And he said, you know, Aaron, your grandfather was one of the easiest because he’s got hundreds of hours of interviews on YouTube. And I just went and started watching interviews and watching interviews and, and it wasn’t all from like 2010, it was like 1962.

And then, you know, 1994 and 1987, there was all kinds of different ages and he really picked up a lot of Carol’s mannerisms and characteristics that way. And I thought he did a really good job of getting that across in the movie. Who would your grandfather have wanted to play him? [00:33:00] Well. I’ll, I’ll give you who I would’ve picked.

I would’ve picked Matthew McConaughey tall, skinny, Texan, just like Carol would’ve, sounded just like Carol. I don’t think that would’ve been a stretch at all.

Max Kaiserman: Was he as calm though? You know, McConaughey has this vibe of everything’s all right all the time.

Aaron Shelby: I, I think Carol could play that pretty easy. If you talk to the team, particularly back in the sixties, I mean, he was the leader and he was the pied piper, so to speak.

He didn’t have to be yelling at everybody to. Get ’em to do things. They wanted to do it ’cause they wanted to succeed and I think he could have done that pretty well. So it, it would’ve been interesting. Matt did a good job and I think in general played it in a really good light. I will expand just a little bit back to both of your questions.

So that movie has done more to gather a younger generation of Shelby fans than I think anything we could do outta the company today. It just really created that genesis story and got people to recognize. Even more modern enthusiasts that have become in the Shelby world in the last 15 years. When he joined back with Ford, a lot of ’em didn’t know the origin story, didn’t really understand that Carroll was a race car driver, and the success that the Cobra had and what [00:34:00] all happened back then.

That movie really opened a lot of eyes to the Shelby Ford partnership and where that success came from. You know, going back to the Ford versus Ferrari movie, outside of the Shelby recognition, the best thing it did was bring 10 miles achievements to light. ’cause so many people did not even know who Ken Miles was.

And he was so critical to the success. And he was a fantastic driver

Max Kaiserman: and an engineer. I mean, he was a, he was a born engineer. Phil Remington. Charlie apu. I mean these guys that really were critical to this. Phil Remington especially, and he designed mm-hmm. The whole control arm replacement system. Yeah.

For the UP engine G GT 40. These guys made that happen and it’s so great that it has a rebirth. You know that vintage history has a rebirth and now you know, has a modern take on it. Yep, that’s exactly right. Carol saw the rebirth of the electric car. You know, it had been a thing in the 10th century. Yes, yes.

What would he say today about the direction of electric vehicles in daily use and in racing as well? If you

Aaron Shelby: look at Carol’s history, he was a look forward guy and he was a technology guy. [00:35:00] He loved technology. And while a lot of stuff that he tried didn’t work, we actually have him on, in one of his last interviews in 2011 talking about electrification and that he was really excited about what he was reading about electrification for cars, but knowing that he wasn’t gonna see the optimum performance of that, whether you’re talking track or just daily use, but knowing it was coming from the engineers he was talking to.

And so I think he would love to see where it sits today. Would he base the whole company around it today? Probably not. Just like we’re not today. I think at some point. If there’s a spot for a Shelby Electric vehicle, we’ve done a couple little trial runs on some machs and things, but I don’t think the technology nor the market is where we need it to be.

To be a Shelby vehicle today. Doesn’t mean it won’t always be that way. At some point we might get there, but I do think Carol would really like it. What people don’t understand a lot of times is Carol was a, he was an entrepreneur. And he was an idea guy, and so he tried hundreds if not thousands of things through the years that just never worked and he didn’t care.

He just wanted to try ’em out. And I think electrification, he would be looking at the battery technology and the [00:36:00] software and he’d be looking at everything that the tech guys are looking at today and say, how do you make this better? I mean, it’s one thing to get in a Tesla and go, you know, zero to 60 in two seconds, but how do you get that thing to last for 20 laps in a race?

You can’t, doesn’t mean it won’t always be there. It’ll get there at some point in time.

Max Kaiserman: It’d be a killer drag race though. Oh yeah, for sure. Instant torque. You know? I can only

Crew Chief Brad: imagine. Yeah, he would love that.

Max Kaiserman: Yeah. Carol would’ve loved instant torque. I mean, it really was What, where the rubber hits the road literally.

Yep. And the endurance comes later. Right. That’s, that’s the, but in his own words, you know, Carol said he was a serial entrepreneur and had adult a DD. He just, he went from one thing to another. Thing when he got bored with it. But it all had a, a similar vein of that sort of innovation and engineering.

Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: And I’m glad you guys went here with the electrification and the rebirth of the partnership with Ford. You know, and that’s getting stronger every day. Ford has been talking, there’s no longer rumors they have made it official. Right. There’s some Formula one stuff going on and we’ll leave that to the side side.

But they’re returning to LAMA for the projected 2027 season in the LMDH.

Aaron Shelby: Yeah. The [00:37:00] hypercar class. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: The GT P class. So are we gonna see a quote unquote, let’s call it another Ford GT in the upper echelons of racing? And is Shelby gonna be involved there, or can you say Aaron?

Aaron Shelby: Well, I, I can’t really say with any real knowledge on that.

I, I’m excited that Ford’s doing that. I tell you that I think from a Shelby perspective and just a racing enthusiast perspective, it’s gonna be really neat to see. I have had a lot of fun the last two years seeing the Mustangs race and the GT class over there. You know the Corvettes sound okay, but there’s nothing like that Mustang coming down the MO saying Strait.

It is just an awesome sound. It does not sound like a Porsche, Ferrari or Aston Martin by any means. So I think this is a logical step for Ford to take and I’m excited to see what the program looks like and and how they end up performing in 27.

Crew Chief Eric: You mentioned the family collection a couple of times for those that want to see Shelby’s up close.

There’s a couple collections. One in Boulder in Las Vegas, but is there a museum?

Aaron Shelby: So there’s really. Three, I’d almost say four museums at this point in time. Obviously at the Simeon, you’ve [00:38:00] got the 2287, the Daytona coop that’s there. I think they’ve got a Cobra as well, if I remember. But as far as official museums, the Shelby American Collection in Boulder is probably the most extensive when it comes to racing history, and whether it’s the cars or the memorabilia there.

The Miller Family Collection is housed there in addition to a number of other owners that keep their cars there, so that’s really a impressive one. It’s been open probably almost 30 years now. You’ve got the Cobra experience in Northern California, run by Drew Serb and his daughter Emily. Really neat history there.

They’ve done a good job of getting a lot of paraphernalia, let’s say, out of the old Venice shop and things that are on display in addition to all the great cars and a little film they put together. Just a ton of record history there. And then in Orange County you’ve got the Segerstrom Center. Ted and Ray Segerstrom opened this up about five years ago, and they’ve got a huge warehouse that they put their Shelby collection in.

They essentially had a collection of cars. They didn’t know what to do with it, so they wound up hiring museum design group and created a museum out of it. And they do events there, and it’s opened to the public. It’s really a neat place. So on the top of that, on the. Fourth [00:39:00] side, you’ve got Shelby American in Las Vegas.

We have a small museum there. What we curate through there changes a lot of stuff’s on loan. Some of it’s replica, some of it’s original stuff. We try and refresh things pretty frequently, but we give tours and tell the Shelby story there. Four really neat spots around the country you could go to to learn Shelby history and see some of these cars up close.

Max Kaiserman: When you think about the future of Shelby, what excites you the most and how do you personally hope to shape that future moving forward?

Aaron Shelby: So two things that I really think that we can add to our success level in. We have a lot of opportunity internationally. You know, it’s not just the movie, but. I will tell you in Europe, Australia, South Africa, there was already a really hardcore Shelby enthusiast group in, in all those areas to be able to get that out there.

I will tell you, it’s not easy when you’re trying to talk about homolog, getting these cars to go overseas and things like that. So that’s been a bit of our struggle, but. We’re getting there. We’ve got a good opportunity. We have a good distributor in Europe that’s working with some Ford dealers over there.

We were really doing well, kind of up to [00:40:00] 2019 into COVID and we got kind of kicked back with all that thing slowed down on us. Now the tariff stuff’s gonna probably kick us back a little bit as well, but to me that’s where we have a lot of opportunity and, and we see that in addition to licensing side, I think we have a lot more opportunity there.

This year. There’s been some neat things that came out. Lego did their first Shelby 4 27 Cobra Lego kit came out in July 4th, which I thought was apropos for that. I think they’ve been having great success with it, from what I understand. Just recently, Oliva introduced a new Shelby watch that’s gonna be a worldwide sale and they’re really fired up about it.

They had some at Pebble Beach and went to several events and were really enthused with the response that they got out of everybody that saw it. In addition, fossil earlier this year did, did a watch. Really limited run. It was only. 500 units. So that was a pretty small run, but I think they’re gonna be in line to do something else.

So, you know, I don’t see us being Harley Davidson, so to speak, and having the name on everything, but there’s other opportunities to partner with some pretty exciting companies out there on the licensing side, and that’s gonna be where we lead to success and continue to build just the brand awareness in the future.

Crew Chief Eric: [00:41:00] So leading off of. What Max was just asking you about shaping the Shelby legacy for the future. What’s next for Shelby? Any new vehicles, anything exciting? Any spoilers you can share with us?

Aaron Shelby: Yeah, we’ve got a few things, a few exciting announcements this year and what we realized a number of years ago is kind of from what we do with Shelby American in Las Vegas.

It’s doing more niche production runs. It keeps that desire out there and keeps the need out there. And so we introduced a Bear Jackson in January, the brand new GT three 50 that we’re producing at Shelby. A limited run of cars this year. We’ll do another limited run next year, but that’s our entry level Shelby Mustang right now, and we’re excited about that.

We already had the super snake that we had introduced last year. On top of that, at Pebble Beach, we introduced the supers snake R. So we have a more track oriented top end Shelby.

Crew Chief Brad: We

Aaron Shelby: put a ton of engineering work into that car. We’re only doing a hundred of ’em this year, and they’re already all called for excited about what we’ve got on the Mustang side.

And then what. A lot of people don’t recognize too, while we’re known for that work trucks is 70% of [00:42:00] our business today. You know, we’ve got five different Shelby truck platforms out there right now, and those evolve a bit as Ford updates, models and things. But anything from our super Baja F two 50, down to a kind of modern day Ford Lightning, if you want to call it that.

It’s our Shelby Supers snake, but single cab, short bed, lowered truck. With a supercharger on it. Probably I’ll do a hundred of those this year. So there’s a lot of neat stuff that we’re doing and always kind of tinkering and evolving whether you want to be off-road or on road with the trucks. And then all the track oriented stuff that we do with the Mustangs is really exciting.

Crew Chief Eric: So what I heard you say is that the Viper truck is coming back too, right?

Aaron Shelby: Uh, you might have read between the lines somewhere. We’ll see.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, on that note, Aaron, we’ve reached that point of the episode where I like to invite our guests to share any shout outs, promotions, thank yous, or anything else we haven’t covered thus far.

Aaron Shelby: Well, you know, I’ve gotta thank you guys for having me on for one, and just the Shelby community in general. It’s been so great to meet so many great people around the country and around the world that we deal with. None of this happens without the team at Shelby American, Gary Patterson and Vince Levi Violette, Tracy [00:43:00] Smith, et cetera.

You know, it takes a team to put all this together and make it look easy, although everybody knows it’s not behind the scenes. There’s a lot of effort just like you guys put on your show here. So just thank you to all of ’em and, um, continue to see people throughout the year. We got a few events left this year, and if anybody is out there and runs into us, come up and say

Max Kaiserman: hello.

From his personal memories of growing up being a part of the legendary Shelby family to his current role guiding Shelby International into the future, Aaron reminds us that history isn’t just something we preserve, it’s something we carry forward. The Shelby story is one of passion, innovation, and relentless pursuit of performance, and Aaron continues to keep that spirit alive for both longtime enthusiasts and new generations.

Discovering the brand. If you’d like to learn more, be sure to visit shelby.com and follow Shelby American across social media for the latest news events and performance cars.

Crew Chief Eric: And with that, Aaron, I can’t thank you enough for coming on break fix and sharing part of the Shelby legacy with us and the exciting news of all the things that are coming, we are looking forward to one of the best known, best American brands to [00:44:00] continue, especially in the Motorsport world for years to come.

So thank you for what you’re doing and keep up the great work.

Aaron Shelby: Will do. I appreciate it guys. Thanks for the time today.

Crew Chief Eric: Thank you.

We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcast, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org.

We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So [00:45:00] consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Welcoming Aaron Shelby
01:25 Growing Up with Carroll Shelby
05:10 Aaron’s Early Career and Family Background
09:15 Shelby Legacy and Racing History
11:44 Shelby Prototypes and Unique Cars
15:43 Shelby in Modern Racing
20:57 Shelby Community and Legendary Figures in Shelby History
24:56 Shelby at Pebble Beach
26:07 The Legacy of Shelby Racing
27:32 The Carroll Shelby Foundation
31:30 The Ford vs. Ferrari Movie: Fact vs. Fiction
34:47 Shelby and the Future of Electric Vehicles
37:43 Shelby Museums and Collections
39:19 Future of Shelby: New Vehicles and International Expansion
42:38 Closing Remarks and Future Events

Learn More

STEM & Automotive Education Programs

Scholarships for Automotive and Diesel Technology Students CSF partnered with the College of Southern Nevada to provide $37,500 in scholarships for students in automotive and diesel technology programs. This includes:
- Ten annual scholarships of $2,500 each
- Split across Fall and Spring semesters
- Designed to support students pursuing careers as certified technicians
Support for Automotive Training Centers CSF contributes to educational infrastructure, such as the Carroll Shelby Automotive Technology Center at Northeast Texas Community College, helping students gain hands-on experience in automotive engineering and repair.
Mission to Teach Life-Changing Skills Aaron Shelby emphasized that the Foundation’s expanded mission includes teaching kids skills that help them succeed in the auto industry, addressing the national shortage of qualified technicians.

Medical Assistance & Health Advocacy

Support for Children with Life-Threatening Illnesses Originally founded to assist children needing coronary and kidney care, CSF continues to provide:
- Funding for major surgeries
- Grants to organizations conducting research in organ transplant management
Global Charitable Impact CSF has helped charities worldwide raise funds and launch healthcare programs and facilities.

Additional Educational Support

Scholarships Beyond Automotive Fields CSF also provides scholarship money to students pursuing education in automotive and related fields, not limited to technical training.
Customized Fundraising Initiatives Through merchandise and commemorative items (like the authorized Carroll Shelby signature), CSF raises funds to support its programs

LEARN MORE AT https://foundation.shelby.com

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Aaron emphasizes that Carroll’s genius wasn’t just about cars – it was about people. Carroll made everyone feel like family, whether they were talking about fishing or racing. That ethos continues to guide Shelby American today, where innovation and accessibility remain central.

From the GT500KR Mustangs of the mid-2000s to rare prototypes like the Series 1 and the V10 Cobra Concept, Aaron sees each chapter of Shelby history as vital to the brand’s identity. Even lesser-known projects, like the Sunbeam Tiger or Chrysler collaborations, hold a place in the Shelby story.

While Shelby American isn’t currently fielding a factory-backed race team, Aaron revealed exciting plans: the company is working with Turnkey Automotive to launch a GT350R TransAm-spec car for customer racing. It’s a step toward reconnecting Shelby with its racing roots, while keeping the spirit of accessibility alive – any enthusiast can buy one and compete.

Perhaps the most powerful part of the legacy is the community. Shelby owners and fans form a tight-knit family, united by a passion for performance and ingenuity. Whether at Goodwood Revival (above) in the UK or a local cars-and-coffee in Texas, the Shelby name sparks conversations, admiration, and connection.

Aaron sees this as the true measure of Carroll’s impact: not just the cars, but the people who carry the spirit forward.

Carroll Shelby once said, “I never made a damn dime until I started doing what I wanted to do.” Aaron Shelby embodies that same philosophy – blending business discipline with a love for motorsports, ensuring the Shelby name remains synonymous with innovation, accessibility, and passion for generations to come.

Guest Co-Host: Max Kaiserman

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

David Hobbs on 1960s British Club Racing and the White Ferrari GTO

Jon S

-

December 6, 2025

0

David Hobbs on 1960s British Club Racing and the White Ferrari GTO

Every so often, Break/Fix takes a detour from its main episodes to deliver a Pit Stop Mini-sode featuring bonus content that digs deeper into motorsport history. This time, we had the privilege of sitting down with legendary driver and commentator David Hobbs to revisit the vibrant world of British Club Racing in the 1960s, and to explore the fascinating story behind John Coombs’ famous white Ferrari 250 GTO.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Hobbs’ journey into racing began humbly in 1959, behind the wheel of his mother’s Morris Oxford. By 1960, he was campaigning his father’s Jaguar XK140, still learning the ropes and discovering the importance of racing tires the hard way. As a Jaguar apprentice, Hobbs found himself under the watchful eye of Lofty England – Jaguar’s managing director and former Le Mans-winning team manager – who quickly recognized his talent.

Despite being chastised by supervisors for neglecting his apprenticeship duties, Hobbs was soon tapped to test prototype cars at Silverstone. That moment, walking past skeptical managers alongside Jaguar’s top brass, marked the turning point in his career.

Spotlight

Learn more about David Hobbs and his fabulous racing career on this episode of Evening With A Legend. Go Behind the Scenes via our Patreon.

Synopsis

On this Pit Stop mini-sode of the Break/Fix podcast our team, consisting of Crew Chief Eric, William Ross (Ferrari Marketplace Podcast) and Jon Summers (The Motoring Historian) delve into the history of British Club racing in the 1960s with legendary pro-driver and commentator, David Hobbs. The discussion covers David’s early racing career, the dynamics and culture of club racing during that era, and significant figures such as Lofty England, John Coombs, and various renowned drivers like Graham Hill, Mike Hawthorn, and Jack Sears. Hobbs shares personal anecdotes, his experiences with different racing cars, including the famed white Ferrari 250 GTO and Jaguar E-Type, and his interactions with key personalities in the motorsport world. The episode also touches on the transition from amateur to professional racing and the evolution of race car engineering.

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] We always have a blast chatting with our guests about all sorts of different topics, but sometimes we go off the rails and dig deeper into their automotive and motor sports pasts. As a bonus, let’s go behind the scenes with this pit stop mini episode for some extra content that didn’t quite fit in the main episode.

Sit back and enjoy and remember to like, subscribe and support break fix on Patreon.

Crew Chief Eric: It is always fun to get back together with John, the motoring historian, and William from the Exotic Car Marketplace. But today is extra special because we are gonna take a deep dive into 1960s British Club racing with. None other than legendary pro driver and commentator David Hobbes. So I wanna welcome David Hobbes back to break Fix as we dive into this interesting part of Motorsports history.

David Hobbs: Well, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for inviting me for a, a recap of 60 odd years ago.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, David, this comes about because John, William and I have been working on a [00:01:00] project about John Coombs and his famous white Ferrari, two 50 GTO, and when we were digging into the history, you start to realize how small the motor sports world is.

Your name starts popping up because that’s when your career was starting to come about. And so we figured, well, let’s ask a living legend about living history. So let’s dive into British Club racing in the 1960s. Can you take us back? Well, British Club

David Hobbs: racing in the 1960s was actually very, very healthy.

And of course, in those days it really was club racing. The first two cars I drove in 1959, I drove by Mums Morris Oxford. Which was hardly a racing car. I drove it, took it from the tracks when I didn’t have it towed, how that is. And in 1960, I drove my dad’s XK one 40. But unfortunately I was so naive and, uh, so raw that I had never quite understood the, uh, ports of racing tires.

And I raced out on Michel X. In the very first race with I ever turned at, at Alton Park on the last [00:02:00] lap of a GT race and was outta the race. I, I modified that ’cause I was actually a Jaguar apprentice at the time. I had started off buying, being a Damer apprentice, but then I became a Jaguar apprentice ’cause of my dad’s affiliation with Daimler, with his, uh, automatic gearbox.

I, you know, I, I chose the school, so I couldn’t go to university, so I became an apprentice. But of course, I got so involved in the racing and luckily, loft England, who was the managing director of Jaguar when I became a Jaguar apprentice, was the team manager who won Lamont for. Jag in 1950, what? Five, six, and seven.

Lofty was a team manager. He had worked his way through the company and by the time I was the apprentice, he was the managing director, but he also was a clerk of the course, what you’d call a chief steward at lots of silvers to the club racers run by the British racing driver. Luckily for me, lofty took rather fancy to my driving style, and so he was a great help.

I had, uh, a funny incident and the apprentice supervisor, whose name was Harold Barker called me into [00:03:00] his office and tore me off a strip and said I was the worst apprentice I’d ever had. I was never there. I’d ever went to tech, I’d ever passed any examiners, which I didn’t. I. I did spend a lot of time at the racetrack.

By 1961, I was driving the Low Elite, which my father’s company had bought me to help promote the gearbox because it had dad’s automatic gearbox in it. So although Harold Barker tore me off this terrible strip, just said, I dunno what you’re gonna do ho. He said, I think I just don’t see a life for you.

You’re gonna be probably be homeless. And he said, you’re absolutely completely useless. Well, luckily a couple of weeks later I was working in experimental department and the foreman called me. I was, says here, Hobbs. He says, Mr. England wants to see you in his office. So I thought, oh, blindly. This seems got a bit outta hand now.

So I went up to the office and Lofty said, oh Hobbs, we have an experimental car. We have a prototype car, and we’d rather like you to take to silver to drive it for us. Would would you be able to do that? I said, I’m sure I could. So, so the next thing, I’m walking through the [00:04:00] main office block with the Lofty England as the managing director with, uh, Jim Haynes, who was the, uh, chief engineer at Jaguar.

Wally Hassen, who was the chief engineer man, and, uh, Mike McDowell, who was the competition manager for Ja. And we walked past Mr. Barker’s office and I was there. He was look in the door while I’m walking down with all these heavy hitters and say, oh, afternoon, Mr. Barker’s still here.

That was the high point of my apprenticeship. Anyway, we did go testing and Michael Parks, if you remember the name, Michael Parks was going to run me that afternoon. He and his girlfriend were there and his girlfriend. Ultimately became Enzo Ferrari’s personal secretary. And she is still alive and kicking, apparently living in Italy and I just can’t remember her name.

But she was a very bright young spark and uh, Michael was very attracted to her. But anyway, I spun the car going through the old Abbey curve, which in those days was pretty much a flat out lefthander. It’s gone now, but I spun it the flat spot, all the tires ’cause they hadn’t got [00:05:00] his spare tires. So we went back to the factory.

So during 1961, dad had a bit of a windfall in the Westinghouse breaker signal. Bought some shares in the company and I thought it’d be a great idea if we raced the loads of elite with the gearbox, which of course the big thing about dad’s box was it was the four speed, the friction drive, no fluid drive.

So it used very little power. It had four speeds with automatic or and full manual override. So it made a perfect racing mops and we were very successful in the Loads League. Well, or races. Of course, during that time, lofting was a, was a big supporter, and when I finished my apprenticeship at the end of 1961, a lot of things happened.

The Army draft finished at the end of 61. I finished my apprenticeship in December the 31st, and I got married on December the 16th. And Lofty had got me a professional drive with a guy called Peter Berry who had a 3.8 mark, two Sudan and an XKE, both in green. Bruce McLaren had driven for him in [00:06:00] 1960 and he asked me to drive for in 1961 and Lofty got me that drive in 1962.

So when I left apprenticeship, I got up to a flying start with my racing career by driving for Peter Barry. And of course our biggest competitor, one of our big competitors, was for two big competitors, a key endeavor, which is run by a guy called Tommy. So with, and John Coon. So I met John Coons fairly soon.

You know, after leaving Jag. He knew that Lofty England knew me and thought a lot about me. Funnily enough, in my last year while the apprentice supervisor was slagging me off, I got a call to see if I’d go to entry because it was the British Grand Prix today entry, and one of the supporting races was a GT race.

And I rushed up there. He said, can you go and drive for Tommy? Sat with an Ike endeavor, E type, and of course I rushed up to Adrian. By the time I got there, Jack Sears, who was another very, very, very good amateur driver. I mean, he is a farmer, but he [00:07:00] was a hell of a driver. Unfortunately, Jack Sears was also there and he hadn’t gotta drive that weekend.

So before I got there, they had actually put him in the car. They did gimme some lapse in it. I was a bit nervous ’cause I’d never driven a big car before. I’d only ever driven the elite, so I was used to about 85 horsepower, not whatever. The Jag gave a couple of hundred, 250, something like that, and a much bigger vehicle.

Obviously John Coons was there at that meeting as well because Graham Hill was driving John Coombs as E type. This is before the Ferrari came along. Coombs was very successful. Graham Hill drove for him in the, uh, in the 3.8, mark two, which was also white. He drove for him an E type, which was white, and then of course they got the.

The two 50 GTO, which of course was a hell of a car, and they had some very spirited races with people like Tommy, who was a pretty good driver. Michael Parks drove for him. Obviously, he was a very good driver and some chap called Sterling Roth drove for him as well. In in the number seven before the GTO, he had a, a [00:08:00] Ferrari, uh, two 50 short wheel base, which was a hell of a car.

Those races used to be really exciting because they were very, very. Compared to today. I mean, these were modified street cars. You could take the seats out or you could put lighter seats in and you could do other weight saving, but you couldn’t do much. They didn’t. They didn’t have a space frame like most race cars do today, so they were much more difficult to actually get stiffener.

The chassis were never stiff. But it made them very exciting racing and the, and the public loved it, and John Coombs was a huge part of that.

Crew Chief Eric: David, there is so much to unpack here. I’m sure we all have questions.

Jon Summers: Our understanding is that Coombs bought this GTO because the E type was not competitive. And in an interview that John Coombs had with.

Simon Taylor from Motorsport Magazine 15 years ago now. He says that he had a meal with Bill Haynes, where he said to Bill Haynes that this car’s like a pendulum. If you don’t make it lighter, [00:09:00] I am going to have to race my Ferrari. And coming outta that lunch, this white Ferrari apparently spent the winter of 1962 at Jaguar.

Evolving and this process gave us the lightweight e type. That’s what we think happened. Do you have any insight on that or were you in Daytona meeting, bill France at that time?

David Hobbs: I’m afraid I don’t have any insight on that. No. Uh, that would’ve been above my pay grade, but I couldn’t believe that a lot of people have done that, taken cars that take ’em apart, and obviously the lightweight E type was very, very good.

It still wasn’t quite as good as the Ferrari. I dunno whether it had a bit less power. The V 12 and the Ferrari was a great engine and the chassis was pretty good too. The uh, GTO was in the end was quicker than the lightweight. Now obviously, lightweight E types now have evolved enormously. They’re not really jags anymore.

They’re so different. But, uh, yeah, so I can, I can believe that being true. And John Cobs is a huge, huge Jaguar fan, so I know [00:10:00] he would’ve liked to have made the Jaguar faster than the Ferrari, because after all he was a Jaguar dealer in Guilford.

Jon Summers: I just want to touch on that. You talked about how a lot of the lightweights now are not really anything like they were years ago.

I assume that for WPD. The Coombs car might be in that category. ’cause you see it being raced at Goodwood all the time and it presents like a new car. I wonder if you, you are familiar with the cars at Revs, the Briggs Cunningham lightweight E type. Is that as far as you are aware, more like an original lightweight

David Hobbs: E that Briggs Cunningham car got a name.

What’s this type? Is it the EJ two or whatever it’s called, the e something.

Jon Summers: I don’t, I don’t know. I I, I’m just trying to think of what, where would be like an original lightweight E Yeah, that would be a good comparison point. What we are thinking about is, can you look at this Ferrari and say, well, the guys at Jaguar obviously looked at this Ferrari and then made these changes to the Jaguar as a result, and therefore [00:11:00] we need an early lightweight e

David Hobbs: point of comparison.

I think really that the Jaguar we’re trying to, uh. I don’t know about crib, but to try and actually improve the E type by following some of the Ferrari practices, uh, rather than the other way around. I mean, I think the Ferrari was always the quicker of the two cars. Well, ’cause the E type in those days, they didn’t have the material ology that you got today.

These are E type straight sixes. Give over 400 horsepower. Well, when that straight six engine first came out, it gave about 160. So to give four 60 is a massive increase, which obviously you wouldn’t be able to do with the original blocks, crank shafts and main eng, main bearings and that sort of thing. So the only reason they can do that is because of modern materials.

You know, I mean, I don’t know that the in outs and the depths of the. Cos England relationship or the Coombs Jaguar relationship. But I just know that John was a very, and at one stage he was talking about trying to get me in one of his cars. But of [00:12:00] course, Graham was always there. And so that was, uh, unlikely to happen.

But, uh, Coombs was always a very nice chap. Terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly posh. You know, it was a terrible English, terrible. Like myself, who’s rather unc Coth very, very smooth and urban was our

Jon Summers: cobes. You told us that fabulous story a moment ago about, you know, walking past Mr. Barker’s office with the chopped brass.

Yeah. From Jaguar there. Yeah. Let’s imagine our Ferrari arriving at Brown’s Lane here. You know, when BMW buy a Tesla. They strip it down to the component parts and they measure all those component parts to do, you know, we imagine men in in white coats doing that. Is that what Brown’s Lane was like? How many people did Lofty England or did Bill Haynes have?

To be looking at this and what would the process have been like? Would they have driven it around on the streets? Would they have booked Silverstone for a day and driven it down to Silverstone to do that? What do you think that process [00:13:00] would’ve

David Hobbs: looked like? Hard to help you there, but I mean, I worked in the experimental department at Jaguar, which is where all that type of person would’ve been, and there wasn’t very many people in there.

I mean, there’s Mr. Walker who was the foreman. And uh, he was really a farmer. Obviously Bill Hayes would’ve been all over it and people like Mike Kimberly, who was an ex apprentice but was riding rapidly through the ranks and he ran the XJ 13 when I tested it at Myra in 1967. He was still a Jag, but by then he was one of the chief engineers.

And of course she ultimately went to work for Lotus and ran Lotus for many, many years. So people like him would’ve been all over it, like it run, you know, looking at checking everything out. And like all engineers, my dad had terrible issues ’cause my dad was a fruit farmer from Australia. His father had a fruit farm, his grandfather had, it was an orange grove in Adelaide.

And dad was one of nine children, seven of whom were boys. And it was assumed that he would just go into the business, so he didn’t go [00:14:00] to university. But it turned out from a very early age that he was a, a mechanical engineering kind of genius, and he invented that automatic gearbox entirely on his own and started when he was about 19, invented all sorts of mechanical.

Machines ’cause of his day. You know, those early cars back in the, in the mid-teen 19 teens, they were all crash boxes. He didn’t think they were much good for women, so he thought they could probably have an automatic gearbox would be a good idea. So he started working on it when he was about 19 and he had this problem all the time that people would look at his stuff and say, well, Howard, you don’t have a degree in, in mechanical engineering.

Probably don’t know enough about that and I, I can guarantee it. The people like Bill Hayes would’ve looked at that RA and say, oh, well we could have done that, or, or we wouldn’t have done that, or whatever. They would look at it, but they would always be looking at it with slightly jaish eye it, which obviously some of it bought on by, I suppose.

Jealousy. Why didn’t, I think it,

William Ross: [00:15:00] obviously you, you ran your dad’s box in your car. Yeah. What other race cars did you guys try it out in? Or did someone start using it on a continuous basis? I mean, how much success did that have in the racing?

David Hobbs: Well, it had a lot of success, but dad always had the problem of manufacturing, you know, that everybody wanted him to make the gearbox.

They didn’t wanna make it themselves. Ford had a lot of prototypes. We never had the gearbox in any other racing applications except that race where I met Bill France. Jimmy Clark drove my load sleep in the GT rate in the very first, what was now the Rolex 12 hour, which was in those days, the continental three hour, which is what took me to Daytona just a few weeks after I was.

Colin Chapman had called me back in like October and said, could we borrow your car for Jimmy Clark to drive in America? So they borrowed it. They flew in over there, they and Jimmy Clark drove it and he was leading the class by about five minutes. And unfortunately when he came here for a one and only fuel stop, the start had [00:16:00] got Friday and it wouldn’t start when dad’s company finally went belly up at the end of 63.

Which is just over a year and a half later on the floor on the shop floor was a five speed automatic Formula one car for Colin Chapman. So Colin Chapman had certainly tweaked that this was the way to go. Dad had had designed and developed and manufactured a gearbox for him, which never actually got used.

But Dad spent a lot of time also with Jack Braman. Jack Braman came to see Dad on multiple occasions asking to talk to him about putting the automatic in the Formula One car. You know, it, it would’ve been perfect. I mean, obviously now with electronic controls instead of hydraulic, it would’ve been better.

Obviously, you know, things have gone way further than dad had, but he was the first guy to build a four speed automatic transmission. Although, uh, Jim Hall gets the credit for having the first automatic racer. I’m not sure that I didn’t beat him to it in 1959 with mum’s boys up, but I’m sure. That will certainly go [00:17:00] unheralded.

Even if it was the case, we never, we never raced it in anything else.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s go back to the club racing scene. I want to get a better understanding of what that meant because when we look back on the history with our eyes now, we see famous names, Graham Hill, Roy, Salvador, Jack, Sears, as you mentioned, racing in these race.

The caliber of the racing and the British club racing scene. In my mind, I’m thinking when I hear club racing, I think SECA, like grassroots, amateur racing, but you already had these pro drivers in there. Was it a feeder system to something else? Were the pro drivers using it just to make money? Were they using it to jump off to bigger races like LAMA or SPA or something like that?

Kind of tell us about how it worked.

David Hobbs: It certainly wasn’t ever used. I mean, no professional driver ever went back at the club racing. We had a lot of races in England, which would be national races. They would be club racers sort to, but they’d be very high end club racing. Not really club racing. When you got people like Graham Hill, obviously Graham Hill started club racing.

They all did. I mean, Jimmy Clark [00:18:00] started in club racing. I did. Everybody did Sterling mos. Of course there was no go-karting, so you could take that outta the equation and nobody could start until they were 17 in England because you had to have a driving license before you could race a car. Unlike today, where you can race a four in one car when you’re 12 if you got the skill.

Yeah, some of that racing. In England there was, we had a lot of racing in England, which was a, was a very high level and it was basically semi-professional. Now the prize money was obviously negligible. Club racing, had no prize money. Very, very small cups. Trophies.

Jon Summers: You were in Leamington Spa. David, how far would you travel?

Would you travel all the way up to Scotland for a race or,

David Hobbs: well, I never did, but I did go, uh, I think the farthest north I went was Alton Park and the far south I went was Goodwood. I never raced at Castle. Coon raced a lot of Silverson because it was close to home, which is at Leamington Park Race at Mallory Park.

I don’t even know that Mallory Parks exist. Race at Alton Park Ston. Dub that [00:19:00]

Jon Summers: Mallory does say exists. I was there a couple of summers ago watching, uh, motorcycle racing. Oh yeah. Yeah. So got the front end light over the start finish. Yeah.

David Hobbs: I like Mallory Park. Yeah. Had some good race at Mallory. I won a race there.

Load as things had moved on in 1965. I won the, I won the sports car race and load the T 70, which is a bit of a handful around Murray Park. So, I mean, I mean I drove, I drove the Jag and I drove the Morris to and from the races, the elite. We did have a two wheel trailer, but it was an open trailer. It was just a two wheel trailer, and I had a Ford Zephyr to pull it with.

So we had about two spare wheels, maybe a jack and a hammer, and that was sort of about it really. Club racing in America. Now it’s just so bizarrely. Club racing. I mean, everybody comes with a closed trailer and a mechanic and a manager and all sorts of high tech equipment and yeah, everybody got racing tires, obviously.

But it is just a completely different situation to, uh, [00:20:00] the club racing. I started with now club racing in England also has evolved and a modern club racing. I have no idea. I’m, I haven’t been back to England for a club race for. 40 years probably. So I don’t follow it, but I’m sure it also has advanced enormously from my day.

My day was real, real amateur stuff. No driver schools. Jim Ru started the first driver school at Sefton, but he didn’t start that till. The mid sixties, it was very different and it really was club racing. Spent more time in the cafe, in the pub, in the bar after the racing we did.

Crew Chief Eric: Going back to John Coombs for a moment, when he took delivery of the Ferrari, you were already in the States, am I to understand that correctly?

David Hobbs: Probably still there, but. I don’t particularly remember him taking delivery of it. All I know is a grave hill suddenly appeared in it, you know, instead of the lightweight, he’d suddenly eat type.

Crew Chief Eric: So having encountered John and, and you mentioned that he was a bit posh, is there any reasoning behind the white paint that he chose?

Was it to stick out because he [00:21:00] wanted to sell more cars if he raced on Sunday, went on Monday sort of thing? Or was there a reason behind the white?

David Hobbs: No idea. Probably didn’t like it. He used to wear very light gray suits or maybe light gray. But what,

Crew Chief Eric: let’s talk a little bit more about the drivers. I’m sure you’ve got some on your mind, William, that David has already mentioned that we kind of wanna dig into a little bit more that either owned this Ferrari or drove and raced this Ferrari at some point.

William Ross: Well, I mean you get into, you know, obviously with the club racing, but at what point to take that step up, was there something in between club racing and then professional, obviously like, you know, Mike Parks and that, but then you had. Jack Sears stepping up, but then you know, Roy Salvador and that jumping in, I mean, where’s that stuff?

Is it just a big leap from club racing all of a sudden now you’re going against the big guys or how did that kind of progress?

David Hobbs: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, you are racing, club racing and obviously it was a feed of system of sorts beyond drivers. Obviously there were some older drivers, not many, and a lot of people that did club racing had no interest in going any further.

People like me [00:22:00] and Jack Sears and Graham Hill and Jimmy Clark. They had designed on, on going into professional racing, even though there wasn’t much money in it. Really very little money at the time. Well, I think when Jimmy Clark won the World Championship, the first year he won, I think his total take was about a hundred thousand pounds.

You know, now we talk about drivers who are getting two and a half billion dollars a race, but then a hundred thousand pounds back in 1962 was significantly, yeah, would be a lot more than that now. But I mean, yeah, I just won some races and then people started asking me if I would drive for them. In better club race club racers that might have some money attached.

And they would actually ask me how much money I wanted to drive, or they would tell me how much, and I would say, well, how about 50 pounds more? Or whatever. And we’d sort of haggle over of the driving fee, which was pretty low. It’d be somewhere between 25 and a hundred pounds. But also in club racing, when you started to do well.[00:23:00]

Like I did with the elite, the elite became successful, so it became somewhat of a draw. You could go to someone like Clive Worm Layton who ran Mallory Park and you could ring him up and you say, look, I’m wanting to enter the the B-R-S-C-C race. In May. How about some starting money? And they’d say, Ooh, I dunno about that.

People starting money. And you’d say, well, I don’t want much. I didn’t want like a hundred pounds. And you’d finally, you’d settle on about 50 and so you would get some money, but there was no prize money. But there was what we call starting money, you know, appearance, money really is what it was pretty low, but still.

Literally

Jon Summers: just pick up the phone and Yeah. Yeah. And call the track owner and, and say when you were planning the season Yeah. Just to see where you could

David Hobbs: Yeah. Called call the guys at Silverton and try and get some starting money.

Jon Summers: Yeah. Years ago, Orlando C told me that those of you that used to be like roll.

Representatives, or whatever the phrase was when [00:24:00] asking for payment from a TV company or a journalist or something. What he used to do was he and Y and Mass, I think was the other guy used to do it with, they would ask what Sterling asked for and then ask for half of that. Now that gives the impression that everyone talked amongst themselves.

So would you talk with Graham Hill and if Graham Hill was getting a hundred dollars starting money, you might ask for 50 or 75. Was it like that?

David Hobbs: Well, I wouldn’t be talking to Graham Hill ’cause he would been above me, but I’d be talking to other club drivers, people like Chris Ashmore and David Piper and Richard Atwood, you know, people like that.

We were all, where we all started together. Graham was a good bit ahead of me. He is like four or five years ahead of me. You know, I never get my first races when I drove in professional races and I was driving against people like Graham Hill or Jack Sears, Michael Parks, you know, I could find, hardly believe that I was actually in the same race that they were in, you know, where they’d actually talk to me or say something.

You

GROUP: know,

David Hobbs: Graham Hill usually had somebody horrible to say. But other than that, everybody else was fairly nice. So[00:25:00]

Crew Chief Eric: let’s talk a little bit more about Jack Sears. He owned the car for how long? William?

William Ross: Uh, he had it for a long time. 30 years. What does he own? The one car he owned that GTO for a long time, you know, after it kind of, I guess you’d say retired from professional racing, you know, he took it a lot of club racing and stuff.

But Jack owned that car for

Jon Summers: a long time. Oh yeah. After John Coombs had it. Jack’s his, seems to have had it all the way through the 1970s. Oh, did he? There’s quite a lot of photographs of Jack Sears with the car painted red. With it being around, uh, events. I was sort of. Surprise, the number plate is EUP.

And I’ve realized that it appeared in a number of books that I’d looked at and I think I may have even seen it. Uh, shows,

David Hobbs: believe it or not, I’m not really a huge car man. I really only race ’cause I like the racing. I’m very poor on cars. You asked me what model that is. I mean, I’d say I don’t know I’m gonna, but I mean, Jack Sears was a gentleman farmer.

He had a pretty big farm [00:26:00] out in East Anglia, didn’t he? Hell of a driver and a, and a absolutely terrific guy. I mean, he was such a g he was a real GI liked Jack a lot and he was very, very fast. But yeah, I, I didn’t realize, I didn’t realize he owned that car, but I see it’s gonna be an auction down here in Florida and then

William Ross: Yeah, in January at comb.

David Hobbs: Yeah.

William Ross: Yeah. You know, going back in, obviously trying to make the jag make it turn into lightweight to compete with the fraud, besides trying to improve the motor, get more horsepower and making it lighter. Do you know what else they attempted to do or did on that Jag to try and get it more competitive with that Ferrari?

David Hobbs: Not really. I was doing on my own thing, so I, I don’t really know, but I mean I drove that XJ 13, which was gonna be their next big thing. That’s awesome. By that time, Jaar was somewhat constrained by the fact they’ve now become part of British Leland, and of course the guy that ran British Leland, was it the Donald Stokes period?

Yeah. Stokes exactly. S he put the kibosh on the, uh, [00:27:00] XJ 13. He just said, forget it, put it away. Because Richard Atwood and I, I, I drove it four or five times at Myra. Mike Kimberley was the engineer in charge, and Malcolm Sayer, the, you know, the renowned body work guy from Jag was there, and Sir William was there.

Lofty was there, obviously. And a couple of mechanics and we ran it on Sunday morning at six o’clock in the morning in sort of in secret. Ultimately it was exposed. We went to a test day at Silverstone and Richard Atwin and I drove it. It was Richard’s first time in it to give them a, a workless, you know, of what needed to be done.

’cause we were running five or six seconds off things like GT forties. And the reason that Lofty wanted me to test the car and not Norman Jewish, who was the Jaguar test driver. Because by that time I had driven GT forties, lower T seventies and other big engine powerful stuff. So he asked me to drive it.

Norman Dures never quite got over it. He was pissed off to the end of his life that I’d driven the car.

William Ross: What was the potential you [00:28:00] feel for that car? I mean, do you feel with enough work on it, you know, engineering, that that could have been competitive with the GT forties?

David Hobbs: Well, the best thing about it by a country mile was its engine.

It had the twin overhead cam version of the V 12, which back in 1967 was giving 570 horsepower. I mean, it was an incredible engine. In 1967, the car was very ancient. It had the E type type of suspension where the drive shaft is like your bottom link. It had rubber bushings everywhere. It had Dunlop disc brakes, and Dunlop hadn’t made disc brakes for years.

It had like seven inch rims on the back and five inch rims on the front, where now we replicate GT forces, which had got 11 or 12 inch rims on the back and it had an all done up our five race tires on it. So it was very difficult to get a really good feel of how good it was. And of course, that Malcolm Sayer, that swoopy looking body was so fantastic at Lamar back in the fifties when you know you were looking for air, that [00:29:00] you were looking for speed.

Relatively low horsepower, but you know, the days of downforce had started to appear, the lower T 70 dad flaps on the front and they had a, a, uh, spoiler at the back. Just didn’t have any of that. This was very slippery, but probably had horrible lift at speed, front end, lift at speed. I think the car needed a lot.

Richard and I gave them a, a good work list, which would’ve helped obviously decent sized wheels and tires, but made a. You’ve only gotta look at the difference in Formula One between the soft tire and the medium tire for qualifying to see the difference between a 1960s Dunlop R five Treaded Tire, which is like maybe six inches wide and a tire that’s got a slick no, no tread or very, very, those very early slicks.

A bit of tread, a little tiny tread about 12 inches inches wide. I mean, just right there. You, you are looking at four or five seconds.

William Ross: Yeah.

David Hobbs: And then of course, would the car have stood that sort of the chassis when the chassis started to flex badly? Um, when you’re [00:30:00] starting to put the loads and those tires could generate through it.

If you added some sort of spoiler or wing to it. So I don’t know. But the engine would’ve certainly been right on the top of the tree. ’cause the GT fortune when I was driving the GT 40 for golf in 1968, I mean, they were giving about 385 horsepower. With the what? With the heads? The um, Westlake? Yeah. With those heads.

They were giving about 385 horsepower.

William Ross: Out of all the cars that you had the privilege of racing and driving, what was your favorite car?

David Hobbs: Well, I drove so many, it’s hard to tell, but I think the GT 40 was a very special car in its day. I mean, it was great long distance car. The engine, by the time I got round to drive 68, were pretty reliable.

Had that beautiful ZF gearbox, which was terrific. It, uh, was reasonably slippery. It had very little down force, and it was really easy to drive and easy to set up. Small adjustments of roll bars and bit of ride height and maybe a camba, little bit of camba change would make a big [00:31:00] difference. Didn’t get too hot inside, which was great for long distance racing.

Had good visibility and it had no vices. It didn’t have any severe push on certain corners or snap over steer or anything like that, so it, it was a good car to drive. The 9 62, you know, 10 years later was another incredible long distance car. I mean, amazing, reliable as hell. You run a whole thousand kilometer race, then you go to the next thousand kilometer race and run all the practice sessions and on that same engine, then you might put a fresh engine for the race.

You might not. So that was a hell of a car. Single seaters. Probably one of the best cars I ever drove was M 16 at, uh, Indy in 1974. The McLaren, that was a hell of a car, but in some ways the very best car I ever drove was the last McLaren Canam, the M 20, which had been Peter Re’s car in 1972. Then McLaren pulled out because of the Porsche on saw and I drove that car in Carly Black label colors [00:32:00] for uh, Roy Woods in 1973.

And that was a hell of a, I can see why McLaren had won the championship for like five years, six years in a row ’cause it was just slightest touch to a flat change or ride height. Major magic difference. Had incredible traction. One of our best races probably ever was in the, uh, cannon race at Watkins Land in 1973.

I came second to Mark Donahue in the 9 17 30 against which we had absolutely no hope ’cause it had about three, at least 300 awards about, and we did. And I beat all the other nine seventeens. The, with Brian Redmond and Jody Shechter, George Farmer, and a bunch of other, no name has been, never was drivers, you know, like that.

People like Shechter know, obviously. No good at all. To me, that was one of my best ever races. Uh, came second to, uh, Dar

Crew Chief Eric: so to go back to drivers for a second, one of the other folks that drove the white Ferrari that we’ve been talking about. Oh, we’re talking about a white Ferrari. Are we, we were, we were, yeah.

David Hobbs: Carry on. [00:33:00]

Crew Chief Eric: So Roy Salvadori, did you have any interactions with him? Can you tell us anything about him? His personality, his driving?

David Hobbs: Well, Roy was another driver who, who I couldn’t believe I was racing against ’cause there’d been a name for my youth. But of course Roy was really all those guys. The only guy that really, really, really, really, really, really meant it was Stern.

All the others, I mean, Graham, Graham, Hilde, but Sterling was the ultimate professional. I mean, he was the first real professional driver. I mean, he worked out, he didn’t drink much. He didn’t have sex the night before the race, an more that was supposed to do, but he thought he was so sterling was, was the man and, uh, he was the man really to beat.

He, he was the guy that sort of would accept standard. The Roy Sam was obviously incredibly good. Winning Lamont with, uh, Carol Shelby, 1959. I mean, I knew Roy. I didn’t know any of ’em very well, but he was always a bit of a hero of mine. It was very quick.

Crew Chief Eric: So speaking of heroes, and I know this is a soft spot for [00:34:00] John Summers, John being a expert in the history of Mike Hawthorne, was Hawthorne an inspiration for you?

Was he a hero? Did he inspire you to go into racing?

David Hobbs: Well, unfortunately he didn’t because he was up against Sterling. Although he handed to Sterling, he gave Hawthorne. His championship. It hadn’t been for Sterling. Mos Hawthorne would never have won that championship because Hawthorne spun in the Portuguese Grand Prix, which was in downtown Lisbon.

And to rejoin the track, he drove against the traffic and he was disqualified and sterling ever. The gent went to the stewards afterwards. Of course, unlike the stewards today. They listened to driver input. Sterling said, I say chaps, that’s a bit unkind. You know, I mean, the chap had to go back ’cause he had spun the car.

So he, he had to, to rejoin the race. He, he had to go against the traffic, you know, but not for long and didn’t hurt anybody without the way, so they reinstated Hawthorne who won the championship by one [00:35:00] point. If you don’t be for Sterling, you would never won it. Sterling would’ve won it. He’s won and only championship.

But I liked Hawthorne and loved England, loved him. He thought he was the best six to sliced bread because he was. That English gen always wore his bows tie always down the pub having a drink. But I recognized even then that Sterling just had that extra something. Mike didn’t, I mean, not to say that Mike wasn’t a hell of a driver.

I mean, he was an incredible driver, but to me, Sterling was, I mean, I was only like 14 or 15. So Albert Sterling to me was the bee’s needs.

Jon Summers: David, you’ve said a, a couple of things about Lofty, sort of taking a personal shine to you and you just applied there. He sort of took a personal shine to Mike Hawthorn.

I mean, I always felt like Mike Hawthorn was quite a good. Advertisement for Jaguar cars. He was. Do you think Lofty England was thinking like that or literally do you think it was looking back on your relationship with Lofty England, do you think he was just like, this is he’s one of us. I just like the guy [00:36:00] personally.

I can work with him personally. Do you think that’s what it was, or?

David Hobbs: I think he just had a lot of respect for Mike. I do know he was a great fan of Mike, but I’m not quite sure about their relationship other than I don’t know how well he knew him In my case. The only reason he liked me was. I lived in a place called American House, which is halfway between Leviton and Coventry, and I would come out the drive on my motorbike, going to work as an apprentice.

A lofty would go swooping by an E type, so I would race him to work going to, uh, Brown’s Lane. The only thing is when I got there, lofty would be standing arms at Kimba and he’d look at his watch. Ho, I’m supposed to be here at nine o’clock. You are supposed to be here at eight.

But then when I drove the Jag, my dad’s Jag, having rolled it at the first race, I had it repaired by one of the guys in the body shop at Jag. He repaired it at his house in dorm tree in the garden shed at the bottom of his garden. And he [00:37:00] knocked out. We had to get a new hood ’cause the hood had opened on the way home.

And uh, I was with my girlfriend Margaret, who’s in the other room now painting. So I repaired it. Unfortunately, when Joe went to spray repainted, it was duck in blue. By the time he got home from work, it was like a May evening, so it was about seven o’clock by the time he got around to spraying it. So it was a typical English May evening.

The humidity was high, so the car came out. It was a mat car, Matt finish, which today of course is very groovy. But this was a rough mat. This wasn’t as smooth, Matt. This was, this was, and the hood was a real makeshift job. Knocked up the hood out of sort of canvas or something. So he always looked terrible, but as I say, he was often the clerk of the course.

He had saw me at one race, race for DB four and we swapped leads pass, pass, REPA pass, rep pass, and eventually I won the race. He was probably a 10 and a on the club circle at Silver, the club circle as it was. Lofty. He thought I’d done a good job. He said, what I like about you Holmes, is you, you race, you race well.

You [00:38:00] race like you mean it. And he said, I like that. That’s very commendable. And from then on he, he followed my career. So, uh, he became a bit of a fan. So that’s how uh,

Jon Summers: you lofty. What was your bike? So I can pick to you racing him to work.

David Hobbs: When I was 16, my parents bought me a lamb better. Scooter, me and Margaret used to drive around flat out on his scooter.

I go about 55 mile an hour. So I swapped in the board of T Triumph speed twin, which was before the swinging arm. He’d only had a sprung hub, which had suspension without that much, you know, bug roll suspension. And uh, we used to drive around a couple of lunatics on that bike. I love that bike. It was driven so smooth, silky smooth, silky smooth by the horizontal twin engine was terrific.

American police used to have those triumph speed twins and the triumph tiger one hundreds in those days. So, uh, that’s what I like to ride. I wouldn’t wanna write it now, but,

Crew Chief Eric: well gentlemen, I think that’s been an interesting look back into [00:39:00] early 1960s British motorsport. I appreciate David joining us yet again to come on the show and talk to us.

I think we got what we need, right?

GROUP: I think so. Uh, nice to meet you. That’s fantastic. Thank you very much, David. Thank you for your time. Thanks David. I’m sure we’ll meet again.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you, David.

GROUP: Alright, thank you Eric.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org.

We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get [00:40:00] access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Special Guest: David Hobbs
01:23 Early Racing Days; Apprenticeship and Career Beginnings
03:13 Racing Success and Challenges
08:30 Club Racing Insights
14:59 Technical Innovations and Gearbox Development
17:04 Evolution of Club Racing
21:11 Exploring the Drivers of the Ferrari 250 GTO
21:23 The Journey from Club Racing to Professional Racing
22:29 Negotiating Driving Fees and Starting Money
25:02 Jack Sears and His Long-Term Ownership of the GTO
26:35 The Jaguar XJ13 and Its Untapped Potential
30:23 Favorite Cars and Memorable Races
33:07 Sterling Moss and Other Racing Legends
35:33 Lofty England’s Influence and Personal Stories
38:55 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Central to Hobbs’ early racing was his father’s pioneering four-speed automatic gearbox. Installed in a Lotus Elite, the gearbox offered both automatic and manual override, making it uniquely suited for racing. Hobbs recalls how Colin Chapman borrowed the car for Jim Clark to drive at Daytona in 1962, underscoring the gearbox’s potential. Though the company ultimately folded, the innovation left its mark – years ahead of its time.

Club Racing: Grassroots Yet Star-Studded

British club racing in the 1960s was a curious mix: grassroots in spirit, yet populated by names who would become legends. Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Jack Sears, Roy Salvadori, and Stirling Moss all cut their teeth in these events. Prize money was negligible, but “starting money” or appearance fees kept drivers motivated. Hobbs describes phoning track owners directly to negotiate fees – sometimes as little as £25, sometimes closer to £100.

Unlike today’s polished club racing scene, the era was raw. Cars were often driven to the track, trailers were minimal, and spares consisted of little more than a jack and a hammer. Yet the racing was fiercely competitive, with modified street cars thrilling spectators.

British Club Race 1961, Photo courtesy Jon Summers, The Motoring Historian

John Coombs, Jaguar dealer and gentleman racer, became a central figure in this landscape. His cars – always painted white – were driven by Graham Hill and others, and when the Jaguar E-Type proved uncompetitive, Coombs turned to Ferrari. The arrival of the 250 GTO (above) shifted the balance, inspiring Jaguar to develop the lightweight E-Type in response.

Hobbs recalls the rivalry vividly: the Ferrari’s V12 and chassis gave it the edge, though Jaguar engineers worked tirelessly to close the gap. Over time, lightweight E-Types evolved far beyond their origins, but in the early 1960s, the GTO remained the benchmark.

After Coombs, the GTO passed into the hands of Jack Sears, as Hobbs puts it “a gentleman farmer and formidable driver.” Sears owned the car for decades, racing it extensively and preserving its legacy. Today, the car, having bared the registration EUP 4 for a time was a fixture at historic events and more importantly – is now up for auction – serves as a living reminder of the era’s glamour and grit.

The Spirit of the Era

For Hobbs, the essence of 1960s club racing was its authenticity. Drivers were amateurs in the truest sense, racing for passion rather than fortune. The paddocks were filled with camaraderie, pub gatherings after races, and the thrill of competing against future world champions.

Looking back, Hobbs acknowledges the Ferrari’s superiority but celebrates the ingenuity, determination, and character of the British racing scene. It was a time when innovation – like his father’s gearbox – could change the game, and when club racing served as the crucible for motorsport legends.

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Jon Summers

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Ferrari, Provenance, and the Collector’s Dream: A Four‑Part Mini‑Series

William Ross

-

December 4, 2025

0

Ferrari, Provenance, and the Collector’s Dream: A Four‑Part Mini‑Series

Few cars command reverence like the Ferrari 250 GTO. With only 36 built, each carries a mythology of racing triumphs, engineering quirks, and ownership sagas. This mini‑series of conversations – spanning historians, auction executives, and Ferrari specialists – traces the story of chassis 3729GT, the only GTO painted Bianco Speciale (white), and expands into the broader culture of Ferrari collecting, culminating in the Bachman Collection’s appearance at MECUM Kissimmee.

Episode 1: Spotlight on Chassis 3729GT

In this episode of the Ferrari Marketplace Podcast, William Ross from the Exotic Car Marketplace discusses the legendary Ferrari 250 GTO “Bianco Speciale”, with a special focus on chassis 3729GT, the only white GTO ever produced. Guests Sam Murtaugh from MECUM Auctions and Chris Miele from the Prancing Horse of Nashville join to explore the unique history, specifications, and modifications of this rare car. The conversation covers its racing pedigree, ownership history, and upcoming auction at MECUM’s Kissimmee event. The podcast also delves into auction logistics and the significance of showcasing high-value cars like the GTO. Additionally, the episode highlights the broader MECUM auction experience, including entertainment, events, and logistics. The hosts emphasize the importance of documentation and the evolving nature of collector car sales, framing the upcoming auction as a historic moment in the Ferrari collector market.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Unique identity: The sole GTO delivered in white, one of only eight right‑hand drive examples.
Racing pedigree: Driven by Graham Hill, Roy Salvadori, and Mike Parks, with period modifications for cooling and aerodynamics.
Ownership lineage: Long‑term custodianship by Jack Sears (1970–1999) and later John Shirley, former Microsoft executive, who restored it to its original white.
Auction significance: Its appearance at MECUM Kissimmee marks a rare public sale of a GTO, positioning it as a headline attraction.

Episode 2: The Historian’s Lens

This episode of The Motoring Historian focuses on the history of John Coombs’ 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, also known as “Bianco Speciale,” the only white GTO from the factory. Coombs was a prominent British car dealer and race car tuner, known for his work with Jaguars in the post-war period. The discussion delves into Coombs’ pivotal role in car racing and his rivalry with other notable figures like Mike Hawthorn. It also explores Coombs’ decision-making, including his choice for a right-hand drive configuration and the specific racing modifications made to the GTO. The narrative touches on broader themes of car manufacturing, racing strategies, and automobile culture in the 1960s, providing insights into the significance of this particular GTO in automotive history. The script culminates with a discussion on the car’s market value and its auctioning by MECUM Auctions, highlighting its unique features and provenance.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Jon Summers, “The Motoring Historian,” contextualizes the car within British racing culture:

John Coombs’ legacy: A Jaguar dealer and tuner who turned to Ferrari when the E‑Type proved uncompetitive.
Jaguar connection: Coombs allegedly loaned the GTO to Jaguar engineers, influencing the development of lightweight E‑Types.
Right‑hand drive rationale: Beyond national preference, Coombs may have sought performance advantages on clockwise circuits.
Color symbolism: White and black were Coombs’ racing colors, distinguishing his cars in a sea of British Racing Green and Italian Rosso Corsa.

Episode 3: Provenance and Value

In this episode, William Ross from the Exotic Car Marketplace and guest David Neyens from Motorcopia.com delve into the intricate details of Ferrari’s legendary 250 GTO, one of which is set to cross the block at Mecum Auctions. They discuss the car’s rich provenance, including its one-of-a-kind “Bianco Speciale” color, its status as one of only eight right-hand drive models, and its storied history with notable drivers like Graham Hill and Roy Salvadori. David provides an in-depth market analysis and valuation estimate, predicting the car could fetch upwards of $63 million. They also highlight the importance of documentation and the evolving mindset of high-net-worth individuals investing in such rare automobiles. The episode underscores the excitement and historical significance of the Ferrari 250 GTO, making it a highly anticipated lot in the upcoming auction.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

David Neyens of Motorcopia.com adds depth:

Production numbers: Debate over 36 vs. 39 GTOs, reflecting Ferrari’s hand‑built variability.
Engine saga: Original V12 separated and used in a Cooper F1 car; later replaced with a factory‑cast block, ensuring authenticity.
Market history: Public auction appearances are rare – only three in the past decade – with values ranging from $38M to $70M depending on provenance.
Drivers and lore: Graham Hill, Roy Salvadori, and others embody the era when professional and “gentleman drivers” blurred together.

Episode 4: The Bachman Collection

In the final episode of the mini-series, host William Ross along with special guests Chris Miele from Prancing Horse of Nashville and Sam Murtaugh from MECUM Auctions contribute to the conversation by focusing on the Bachman Collection, a notable assemblage of Ferrari models with exceptionally low mileage. They outline the Ferrari Classiche certification process, emphasize the importance of original components and low-mileage cars, and spotlight several key models from the collection, including the two 288 GTO, multiple F40s, an F50, and the LaFerrari. Miele and Murtaugh provide anecdotes about the collection’s owner, Phil Bachman, and his dedication to preserving and maintaining his cars in pristine condition. The podcast anticipates high excitement and strong interest as these prestigious Ferraris go across the auction block at the MECUM Kissimmee auction.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

The series expands beyond the GTO to MECUM’s broader Ferrari offerings:

Classiche certification: Red, yellow, and gray “books” authenticate originality, adding provenance.
Highlights:
- 166MM: Early Ferrari delivered to the U.S., raced in period.
- 275 GTB/4 Alloy: One of only 16 alloy‑bodied examples, praised as among the finest surviving.
- 400i Manual: Rare manual gearbox variant, one of just 388 built.
- 288 GTO: Single‑owner car with rare luggage option, only ~1,200 miles.
- F40s: Two single‑owner cars with ultra‑low mileage, original tires preserved.
- F50: The elusive supercar, tied to stories of factory politics and personal determination.

Auction logistics: MECUM’s “collections team” ensures careful handling, while Kissimmee’s scale – 5,000 cars over 13 days – creates a spectacle unmatched in the collector world.

Together, these episodes paint a portrait of Ferrari collecting as equal parts passion, provenance, and performance. The white GTO stands as a singular artifact of racing history, while the Bachman Collection demonstrates how rarity and meticulous preservation shape modern values. More than machines, these cars are cultural touchstones – symbols of competition, craftsmanship, and the enduring allure of Ferrari.

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Jon Summers

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: David Neyens

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

TEAM AMERICA Makes Its In-Person Debut at Women With Drive V & PRI – A New Era for U.S. Sim Racing

Screen to Speed

INIT eSports

-

December 2, 2025

0

TEAM AMERICA Makes Its In-Person Debut at Women With Drive V & PRI – A New Era for U.S. Sim Racing

Init Esports is proud to announce a historic milestone for American sim-racing talent: the first-ever in-person TEAM AMERICA national events are heading to Women With Drive V and the Performance Racing Industry (PRI) Show this December. As the official sponsor and racing hardware provider of TEAM AMERICA, MOZA Racing will play a central role in elevating the competition and celebrating the next generation of U.S. sim racers.

Women With Drive V — Celebrating the Future of Women in Motorsports will be held at the Indianapolis Convention Center | December 8–10, 2025

As a dedicated supporter of Women in Motorsports North America (WIMNA), Init Esports will bring three state-of-the-art simulators — fully equipped with MOZA Racing hardware — to Women With Drive V, where the leaders, athletes, and trailblazers of motorsport gather to move the industry forward.

All attendees, including drivers, team owners, and motorsport executives, will get the chance to strap in for a Hot Lap Challenge. The fastest female racer will take home a MOZA R5 Direct Drive Racing Bundle, igniting new pathways for women to compete in esports and beyond.

PRI — The First-Ever TEAM AMERICA Booth & Time Trial Showdown will be held at PRI Show Sim Racing Arena – Lucas Oil Stadium booth 9209, Indianapolis | December 10–13, 2025

Following Women With Drive V, Init Esports brings TEAM AMERICA to the PRI Show floor in the Sim Racing Arena for its first official national competition.

There is still one more online event for TEAM America, on Dec 6th (register here), but invites have been prepared for the Top 12 racers from the 2025 TEAM AMERICA Online Series to come and battle for national glory in real life — powered by MOZA Racing, in Indianapolis. The high-stakes TEAM AMERICA Time Trial Challenge takes place on Saturday afternoon Dec 13, featuring rapid-fire sessions and epic racing energy.

From Thursday and Friday, PRI Show attendees can also jump into the sims to set their best times — a chance to qualify for the Saturday Finale, where they’ll face the top American talent head-to-head.

Michael Good, PRI President: “The PRI Show has always been about pushing the boundaries of motorsports innovation, and sim racing is a natural extension of that mission. TEAM AMERICA’s debut at PRI represents a pivotal moment for U.S. esports racing, bringing together technology, talent, and opportunity under one roof. We’re proud to host the Time Trial Challenge and showcase how virtual racing is creating real-world pathways for the next generation of competitors.”

At the conclusion of the event, the top performer from TEAM AMERICA will earn the opportunity to become a MOZA U.S. Ambassador — a driver who will become an official MOZA athlete and represent the United States on the global stage.

Don’t Miss the Action

Be part of the breakout moment for U.S. esports motorsport: Follow @InitEsports to support the best American racers as they rise toward international stardom. This is TEAM AMERICA. Faster Together. The 2026 Calendar of racing will be revealed officially on site.

More Screen to Speed…

Dive into the journeys of remarkable individuals making waves in sim racing and bridging the virtual with the real. From the thrill of digital circuits to the roar of real-life racetracks, they explore the passion, dedication, and innovation that drives the world of motorsports. They hear from athletes, creators, and pioneers sharing their stories, insights, and the powerful ways sim racing is connecting communities and creating pathways into motorsports.

INIT eSports focuses on sim racing events and digital tournaments. They bring eSports content to fans and sponsorship opportunities to brands, while maximizing audience reach across multiple sports, industries, and platforms. INIT eSports is a woman-led company where Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Accessibility is in their DNA, and their platform aims to combat bullying and cheating to help make the eSports world as safe and fair as possible. To learn more, be sure to logon to www.initesports.gg today or follow them on social media @initesports, join their discord, check out their YouTube Channel, or follow their live content via Twitch.

At INIT eSports, founder and CEO Stefy Bau doesn’t just settle for the ordinary. She creates extraordinary experiences by producing thrilling online competitions and real-life events that transcend the boundaries of the eSports universe. And she’s here with us on Break/Fix to share her story, and help you understand why you need to get more involved in the world of eSports.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

About Performance Racing Industry

Performance Racing Industry fuels the passion for motorsports by building, promoting, and protecting the worldwide racing community. PRI supports the interests of racers, enthusiasts, builders, tracks, sanctioning bodies and businesses through legislative action and advocacy, its monthly business magazine Performance Racing Industry, and the world’s premier motorsports trade show, the PRI Show. PRI also supports businesses by providing market research, education and best practices in motorsports business and racing technology. For more information, visit PerformanceRacing.com.

About MOZA Racing

Founded in 2012 by a team of automotive engineers and simulation enthusiasts, MOZA Racing has grown into a global leader in sim racing and flight simulation hardware. Driven by innovation, performance, and a passion for realism, MOZA offers a wide range of products including direct drive wheelbases, steering wheels, pedals, flight controls, and truck sim gear. MOZA proudly partners with world-renowned names such as Automobili Lamborghini, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, and MotoGP. Learn more about MOZA: www.mozaracing.com

So what do you think my car is worth?

Don W

-

November 27, 2025

0

In the ever-evolving world of collector cars, few voices carry the weight of experience and insight like David Neyens. Known for his meticulous catalog writing and deep auction expertise, Neyens has now launched Motorcopia.com – a data-driven platform designed to bring clarity and confidence to car collectors and investors navigating the marketplace.

We recently sat down with David on the Break/Fix podcast, alongside returning co-hosts Don Weberg (Garage Style Magazine) and William Ross (Exotic Car Marketplace), to explore how Motorcopia is redefining how we understand collector car value.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Think of Motorcopia as a Bloomberg Terminal for the collector car world. It’s not an auction site or a photo gallery – it’s an intelligence platform built for decision-makers. Whether you’re a high-net-worth investor, a seasoned collector, or a professional advisor, Motorcopia offers:

Buy/Sell/Hold signals for specific models
Forecasting across short-, medium-, and long-term horizons
Deep dives into market liquidity, cultural relevance, and ownership costs
A concise, easy-to-navigate interface that avoids data overload

As William Ross put it: “It’s very straightforward… especially if it’s your car and you want to know where it’s sitting in the market right now.”

Spotlight

Synopsis

In this episode of Break/Fix podcast, the hosts explore the captivating world of collector cars and automotive journalism with special guest David Neyens. Known for his expertise in classic and exotic automobiles, David shares his journey from a career in financial services to becoming a trusted voice in auction catalogs. He introduces Motorcopia, a unique platform offering data-driven insights into the global collector car market, assisting enthusiasts, collectors, and investors in making informed decisions. The discussion delves into how Motorcopia’s detailed reports and data analyses help users determine whether to buy, sell, or hold specific car models. David emphasizes the importance of balancing passion with practicality and the role of elements such as preservation class and restoration in determining a car’s value. Additionally, the episode features returning co-hosts Don Weberg and William Ross, who contribute their expertise and insights into the intricacies of the automotive world.

David, you’ve had a long history in the collector car world—what inspired you to launch Motorcopia.com, and how does it build on your past experiences?
For those unfamiliar, how would you describe Motorcopia and the kind of information it provides to collectors and enthusiasts?
What types of data or insights do you find enthusiasts are most eager to explore when it comes to auctions and collector cars?
How do you see Motorcopia serving both seasoned collectors and those who are just beginning their journey into classic and exotic cars?
With so many digital platforms emerging, what sets Motorcopia apart in terms of both its content and its mission?
If you look ahead five to ten years, how do you think data-driven insights will continue to influence the collector car industry?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Tonight we are joined by a familiar name in the world of collector cars and automotive journalism. David Neyens known for his deep expertise in classic and exotic automobiles, has long been a trusted voice in auction catalogs and in the pages of enthusiast publications. Now he’s bringing that wealth of knowledge with Motorcopia.com, a unique platform dedicated to the intelligence and insights of the global collector car market

Don Weberg: from auction analysis and pricing trends to the fascinating stories behind the cars themselves.

Motorcopia is redefining [00:01:00] how enthusiast, collectors and investors understand the marketplace. In this episode, we’ll dive into David’s journey, the vision behind Motorcopia, and how data and passion are merging to shape the future of the car world.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right, and joining us tonight are returning co-hosts Don Weiberg from Garage Style Magazine.

And William Ross from the Ferrari Marketplace, not just personalities on the Motoring Podcast network, but our car auction subject matter experts. So welcome back Don and William.

Don Weberg: Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: This is gonna be fun. And with that, let’s welcome David to break fix.

David Neyens: Hello David. Hello everybody. Nice to meet you.

Crew Chief Eric: Like all good break, fix stories. Everyone has a superhero origin. Let’s talk about your long history in the collector car world. And what inspired you to launch Motorcopia.com and how does that build on all your past experiences?

David Neyens: Ever since I was just a little guy, I was always just obsessed with automobiles in general.

After a about 10 year stint in financial [00:02:00] services and banking was able to get into riding for a nearby collector car, auction house, and writing their catalogs. After a few visits, one of the tour guides, uh, mentioned he thought that I should give catalog writing a try, and that there might be, uh, an opportunity there.

So I purchased prior auction catalogs and just went over them just like I would a magazine or a book just kind of modeled their format and their style. Back in 2007, uh, unboxing day, I had the opportunity, I saw an ad actually where they were looking for catalog writers. The deal was you submit a test piece, pick a car of your choosing and give it a try, and if they.

Liked it. Then there was the possibility of an interview and a job working in the writing cataloging department there. As it happened very quickly, I was told they liked what I submitted. They were super busy with private collection sales and scheduled auctions. Asked if I’d be willing to interview, and they brought me on board pretty fast.

So that’s how I got my first few years in the business. After that went on my own in 2012 and, uh, with some help from a very good friend, uh, in the PR [00:03:00] industry in in California, Cindy Mele, she helped me to launch my next phase as a, as a freelance catalog writer and just became extremely busy. It’s been really rewarding.

I’ve met a lot of great people, uh, made a lot of great contacts with people and just continue that journey right to the present. And as far as Motorcopia goes, uh, as a new venture. That started back in May and June. I finished a major project for a customer, submitted my invoice and I’d been feeling a little bit tired, and then realized by then that I’d caught a terrible cold that put me on my back for about a month.

During that time, I thought, well, what can I do in addition to writing catalogs on my own where I can continue in the car field and, uh, try to do something different? And so the idea for Motorcopia came about. A lot of content creators do a better job of putting out great photography, great videos, online content.

That’s their space. With me being so deep in the market for so long, I decided to take data associated with collector car sales, process it, and [00:04:00] turn it into something that’s actionable for collectors and high net worth investors. People in, uh, their professional advisors as well, where I can give a buy seller a hold signal and also drill it down to specific models of cars, even.

Again, it was just simply because I was trying to find something different, something a new niche that no one else is really pursuing.

Don Weberg: Can you tell us exactly what is Motor

David Neyens: Copia? I was kind of inspired by, uh, there’s a fellow in, in the States. You’re all in the states. I’m in Canada. He, he writes, um, a newsletter that’s all about farming and agricultural commodities, investment strategies for farmers so that they can hedge their bets or get their crops to market at the right time.

Or maybe they hold onto them in a facility and they then sell them when the conditions are more favorable. That’s his business. He, and it’s just a no bones about it. He was a Chicago Board of Exchange trader at one time and just loved it. And he came from a farm and that’s what he did. So for me, it’s being able to take my love of cars.

Well, I love them all, but [00:05:00] you know, there’s some that are more electrifying than others or that are in more demand than others, and they actually apply a bit of a financial method to helping people to make decisions.

Don Weberg: But is it an auction platform? Form what? What are we looking at here?

David Neyens: What it is, it’s an information platform.

Think of it as kinda like a Bloomberg terminal setup for investors in the collector car market, or people that have high end collections and they want to know whether they need to buy, sell, or hold certain cars. Also, there’s the Motorcopia newsletter that works right from the website and with that I send out like a financial newsletter, but it’s geared completely to the collector car market and there’s a lot of crossover with the financial markets.

It’s a real hardcore nuts and bolts analysis. If you’re looking for good content and great pictures and stuff like that. I try to deliver that. The emphasis is on helping people to buy, sell, or hold and make those decisions with clarity.

William Ross: My opinion, you don’t need to worry about the pictures and that stuff because what you provide to someone is.

Basically the data and analytics down to specific models, which is fantastic for someone that’s [00:06:00] a very numbers driven Oh,

David Neyens: oh, right on.

William Ross: For those who have not gone on the website, you need to go on there. And what’s great about it too, it’s not like it’s crazy where it’s like, you know, you get some of these data driven sites, you get all this data so that you really, it’s kind of hard to make all It is so nice and concise.

It’s very straightforward and you can understand exactly what you need to find. To your point, buy, sell, hold. Just history of car, especially if maybe it’s just your car you’ve had for a long time. Hey, where’s my car sitting at in the market right now and what’s it been doing the past five years? If you haven’t been on site, you guys gotta go on the site ’cause it is really, really cool.

Don Weberg: Thank you. If I’m understanding correctly, if you go on the site, do you go back five years and show what those cars have been doing on the market, going up, going down, doing whatever? Is that what we’re kind of getting at?

David Neyens: Yeah, I’ve done two reports, really deep dives into the four GT Heritage Edition, the oh six four GT version.

Where that sits in that relationship, is it if it’s a buy, sell or a hold, the report breaks it down into immediate the next 30 days, one month to three months for short term, three months to 12 [00:07:00] months for a medium term, and then beyond that for a longer term view, sometimes a vehicle can be. An immediate term hold, but give it a year and it’s a buy depending on our forecasting, so we can drill right down and make forecasts.

And then I try to back test as well after certain auctions take place. Like at Monterey, I believe there are five or six of that four GT Heritage Edition that were offered and or sold. So I could look back and see, okay, was reserve too high on this offering? Was it priced right? What did they solve for and what does that mean for the future for those cars?

Because they were heading on a trajectory for a million plus dollars and really the sweet spot’s somewhere around 700, 750 right now for those cars. That’s borne out by auction experience and sales experience, online auctions, and also if there’s any private sale data that’s known.

Don Weberg: You picked on specifically the GT heritage.

Why that car? How do you choose the cars that are on the system? How many cars are on the system

David Neyens: Right now, I’m doing it more on a [00:08:00] demand basis, and I’m also picking and choosing bellwether type cars. That would be like a blue chip in the market. Something that’s got a certain amount of confirmed sales.

It’s got some interesting dynamics in the market as far as pricing, and this one was heading higher and now with the airs come back out, it’s still in high demand, rare limited edition. That’s how I picked that. It’s a bellwether. I’ve got another analysis, two different methods on the, uh, first generation of the Ferrari tester.

84, 85 to 91. The same idea. It’s a solid hold right now, but there’s upside potential still. The tester had almost 7,200 built. 71, 77 I think was the bill number. At least what’s accepted. The idea is, okay, there’s enough of them built where there probably are enough sales and enough attempted sales that I could find lots of records for the past five years online that.

Don Weberg: Would

David Neyens: help me to build that model as to why it’s a hold right now and it, it’s approaching a buy actually, and I believe one of my reports was [00:09:00] calling for a median of about $160,000 for a number two example, which is an excellent car, but not a Concord queen. Not a driver. So that’s sort of the standard baseline I go by is an excellent conditioned car, unless the customer tells me what the condition of the car is.

So I’m using haggerty’s one to four scale for condition. So that’s kind of one of the criteria. I’m using. Two things I do. One’s called the buy, sell, hold index, and that one’s a weighted average system. I get a score out of 10, I’m looking at 16 data points. One would be recent sales trends. The other one is, uh, market liquidity.

How frequently is this year, make, model or type of car appearing on, on auctions and auction websites and live and online. I’m also looking at how these cars are selling at auction. Do is what’s the sell through rate for them? Community, sentiment and buzz. So I’m also looking at what’s going on online and in print.

How often are these cars discussed or talked about? Is there a lot of nostalgic tailwinds to them to spur them on a little bit more? Was there TV use, like say [00:10:00] Magnum, pi, Ferrari? You know, that sort of burned into my memory bank and probably judging from the four of us, that might be something that we identified with as young folks.

Ownership costs and how complex they are to service, how costly they are to service, or how cheap they are to service. I like the test. I gave it a three out of 10 for ownership costs and maintenance costs. But you know, you could take an 84, 85 to 93, uh, Fox Body Mustang five liter, and you’d probably be looking at eight or nine for a score because their parts are available readily and they’re relatively inexpensive.

The other thing is, again, cultural and historical significance. Was there a competition history or like, say a copo Camaro from 69 ruled the drag strips. They were, uh, burned in everybody’s memory. Banks. That’s, you know, anybody up to around Gen X and millennial. That gives a good tailwind as well. Is there export and import demand?

Are there a. Cars crossing the border, say from Canada to the US or Europe to the us I’m also looking at regulatory and legal pressures depending on what the jurisdiction is. So, as you know, in [00:11:00] England it’s ultra low emission zones and uh, you can’t park anywhere. Whereas here in Canada, it’s uh, electric vehicles are getting pushed like crazy here and we’re being sort of coerced into that space.

Despite my opinions about that, how rare or how common are the cars, things like that. So again, there’s 16 data points that I’m going over with that. But you want something that’s got some action. So these are just sort of test cases where I’m publishing them myself right now to show people what I do.

William Ross: Because it is interesting with the tester because as I was leading and I kind of chuckle myself. Some years ago, the flying mirror cars, I either the Monte spec or however you wanna pronounce it, were not the car anyone wanted. They wanted the two mirror only that, but now it’s gone the other way. Now people want the flying mirror.

Yeah. So it’s got a little more value to and stuff, and it was just, it makes me chuckle towards the end. Then you got the TRS and you got the five 12 M. So it’s got those variants in there where those variables are there. But it really can kind of say like, pinpointing is like going to your customer, saying, okay.

What are you looking to buy? What are you trying to achieve with it?

David Neyens: Yes.

William Ross: It’s like, well you could have this low build towards the end production, final tweaks, [00:12:00] beginning, build, flying mirror, you know, you need this da da da and that kind of stuff. But you know, you have everything going across it, which I thought was really neat too.

’cause you usually don’t see that is not only did you have the sell, but auction ones, you know ones that didn’t. And I mean, someone that’s looking into buying up test row potentially. Don and it’s great information to really make an educated purchase because you can see where it’s at. Exactly. Now what I tell my people is like, look, you know, if you’re buying this as an investment and think you’re gonna make money, that’s not the way to buy a car.

But if you wanna, you got the data that’s backing up, which is fantastic ’cause you can really see where things go and that, that was a great example. You know, I mean, you nailed it. It’s a great bellwether in regards to putting information out there. One, there are enough of them built, but also enough variations of it technically.

Okay, what are you looking to do? Or where would you wanna be at? And because it, it’s an awesome site.

David Neyens: Thank you. It’s fantastic. And to get that some granularity to what value and sort of what the, uh, the recommendation is. So it’s kinda like on CNBC or whatever, they’re saying, this is a buyer or a sell, or I recommend this kind of thing.

It’s a bit of a dangerous thing. So I have to [00:13:00] say, here’s the data to support what I’m saying. You’re an adult and you’re a decision maker. This is meant to guide you and your advisors and to help you to make those decisions yourself.

William Ross: Yeah.

David Neyens: But yeah, there’s so many variables. And the other thing is classic and collector cars is such a passion driven field and it’s only exploded over the last 10, 15 years.

And I did a report on the, uh, 1989 to 94 Ferrari apocalypse. I called. There were a lot of enthusiasts, but there was a lot of speculation, a lot of Japanese money that was in the market. And a lot of those cars have since been repatriated over here to North America again. But I remember that very, very well, uh, as a student because always had a love for classic cars and collector cars.

But getting the analysts take on and in the financial papers was kind of eye opening for me. I think we’re in a much broader market. There’s a much more solid base to work from in the market today, and a lot of the online auctions and a lot of the live auctions with the cars that they’ve expanded into.

Enthusiast cars, Japanese cars, [00:14:00] BMWs, A MG, Mercedes, stuff like that. Where people are really getting into it and very fiercely loyal. It’s just made everything better for everybody, a lot better base to work from. It’s not as peaky as it used to be or as focused on one mark or one type of car.

William Ross: Do you see AI playing some type of role in this in regards to the data and everything like that?

David Neyens: You have to be extremely careful with AI as it stands right now, and it’s never. Something you can rely on 110%. You have to really question everything. I think it actually demands as much diligence as being an expert in a certain field and doing your own research. You still have to question everything.

You still have to double check everything. Even if you use it. It’s a tool. It’s a help. It doesn’t replace what people are already doing. No, I agree. Yeah, it, it’s just one of those things that if harnessed properly can be powerful and helpful, but if used lackadaisically, it’s going to show. As such.

Definitely.

William Ross: When someone comes to you for a report, what’s their number one compared to their number five in regards to, this is what I’m looking for to get out of this [00:15:00] report? What are they really trying to delve into and get out of it?

David Neyens: Ever since I’ve gotten into the business as a catalog writer, you’re in contact with owners all the time, unless you’re told not to contact somebody.

I’ve had so many conversations with so many great people and and the number one thing is, Dave, what do you think my car’s worth?

William Ross: Yep. How much can I get?

David Neyens: Yeah. Well, I’m not a qualified appraiser. Right. You have to be so diplomatic when you’re dealing with people. ’cause it’s also a very emotional thing. A lot of people are very attached to this type of thing, more so than other luxury items.

Like I call them alternative assets. I mean, you know, some people are really turned on by the wines they have in their cellar. Okay, great. But it seems like the passion component or the emotional aspect of ownership really attaches to collector cars. Very much so. But what do you think my car is worth?

And I have to kind of steer the conversation away. Yeah. Because it’s outside my pay grade or here’s what the reserve is. Do you think that’s right? And everybody’s always looking for a sounding board. They’re always wanting to know that they’re making a sound decision. Oh

Don Weberg: yeah.

David Neyens: Yeah. The other thing is auction estimates.

Always problematic. That [00:16:00] takes a lot of handholding as well. So that’s one of the things I do in one of my reports is, uh, help out with suggested reserve prices and suggested estimate ranges as well. And, and the other thing, an appraisal is a snapshot at a specific moment in time and things can change.

So I have people that would come to me and they’d give me an appraisal report that’s four or five years old and I’d have to gently tell them it’s way outta date. And yeah, you need to have another one. I recommend you get another one. And I have a list of people. That you may wanna choose from, but this is sort of a tool that can help with that process.

They generate comparables, which really helps as well. I’ve seen some appraisal reports, not everywhere, but I’ve seen them where it just says, this is the type of car that does very well at certain options. And there you go. So you have to have the due diligence, you have to have comparables, you have to have a methodology as well.

So that’s baked into those reports as well

William Ross: as, you know. An auction sale number can a lot of times not really indicate true value of that car. ’cause who knows the two people buying us like that. But then you also have, okay, like retail sales, you know, market out [00:17:00] there price. That was fantastic too. ’cause you know exactly why that thing sold for that because so and so and so and so were bidding over so it went $500,000 over the high, that kind of stuff.

Whereas, okay, here’s reality. ’cause again, like a client comes to you, they have a car. What can I get or what’s my car worth? Well, it’s like, well, here, let’s look at the numbers. But then it’s also, well, we gotta look at your car too. ’cause this is what there’re, but we gotta see where your car’s placed at.

Exactly. You have all those different pit points that you can kind of say, say, look, here’s an auction thing. Here’s privacy, here’s retail. You know, here’s what it got bid to. It didn’t sell. Say on bring a trailer. You have those numbers too. Well, it can really give. Someone for like me going to someone with their car wanting to sell it, they’ll go like, here, you know?

Right there, it’s straightforward. It’s giving you exactly what you’re looking for, where you wanna be at, and give yourself a good, educated decision. You know, obviously when it boils down to it, you can give all the details, info you want to the owner or whoever, but they’re gonna make their own choice.

Don Weberg: Yeah,

William Ross: that’s right. You know, you don’t want them to burn themselves out there and go, oh, I think my car’s worth 2 million when it’s worth one. You know, that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. You know, [00:18:00] because then the car’s done.

David Neyens: That’s right.

Crew Chief Eric: As I’ve been listening to you guys talk about the valuation system of the vehicles and how the metrics are put together and how the data is analyzed, there’s a very important undercurrent here that I think we need to address head on, which is worth versus value, and they are not the same thing, although people think they are synonymous.

But I just wanna understand where the high watermark is because if I was an investor looking at, let’s say, the Testa roaster report. I’m not seeing the appraised value, which for me is the high watermark of what the vehicle could sell for based on what I’ve been told by an official in the market versus to Williams’ point, what the auctions are saying because the auctions are subjective.

If I got into a bidding war with you and that car is suddenly $500,000 over, if I’m a data analyst, that to me is an extreme that gets taken out of the equation.

David Neyens: Yeah, it’s an outlier.

Crew Chief Eric: It skews the data set. What is the tester Rosa actually worth? Based on what the appraisers are saying versus when the gavel [00:19:00] drops.

That’s why I want a little bit of better understanding, and I have a feeling the audience is sort of wondering, how does your math work when you come up with these valuations?

David Neyens: I use, uh, number one, the number four condition grades for specific vehicles and mileage. Mileage would go into the equation to colors, even colors.

Some are far more rare than others that help influence the market value. As far as appraisals go, I, I wholeheartedly agree, someone needs to actually see the vehicle needs to take a look at what I’m doing, but they need to look at the vehicle itself, of course, and that can be different than what’s been selling in the marketplace, where the numbers are coming from.

I’ve seen many times where an appraisal comes in. 10 to 40% higher than than what an actual market value is. Depends on how recent it is as well. It’s the same thing as with a real estate appraisal. When I was in banking, you’d have a, a market value estimate from the appraiser, but you’d also have a replacement value for the physical item.

You know, what it would take to replace it. And those are always two different things as well. Mine is based more on market and momentum. If there’s good buying activity or [00:20:00] selling activity, if there’s any kind of like a velocity in the market where cars are moving or not moving, it would pick up on that as well.

Crew Chief Eric: But doesn’t that fall victim to the same adage in housing, which is your house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. At the end of the day, regardless of what the numbers say in the house buying process, the appraisal is over what it’s selling for or it’s under what it’s selling for. So we’re in that same game.

So the car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it at the end of the day, right?

David Neyens: Yeah. You need willing buyer and a willing seller and a, and a reasonable. Timeframe. Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: So going back to the data to establish trend. Mm-hmm. You still need a, like in science, you need a constant to test against, in your case, for your data set, what is your constant?

Is it mecu M’S value? Is it Sotheby’s value? Is it an a private appraisal value? ’cause you have to have something across the vehicles to make it consistent.

David Neyens: Oh, for sure. Where I get my numbers, I make a weighted average to get my score that I score a car at out of 10. So. Let’s look at the tester example here.

Sure. Let’s stay with that. I’m looking at not only the different auction houses online and a and [00:21:00] live, one of the biggest tools I use is actually classic.com, if you’ve seen that, where it has a rolling five year, uh, scatterplot of all the sales that have taken place and listings, even if it’s unsold. So that’s a huge tool to use.

So I’m going back as far as I can through that. I use, again, a condition multiplier. My assumptions are based on whether or not a car, unless I’m told otherwise, is an excellent number two condition. If it’s a Concor quality car, it’s gonna have a 20% multiplier. If it’s a driver, number three, we’re gonna take the baseline down by 20%.

So I’m looking at sales trend. For the value scope that I did for the test aero, I’m looking at rarity or commonality. So the score will be higher or lower for cultural significance. So the, the test aerosa gets a bump, it’s like a nine outta 10 as far as its, uh, pop culture status cost. I also look at maintenance costs and service costs.

The higher, the worse it is. So I’m not a mechanic, but I think you need an engine out just to do the timing belt. So that’s weighed into this as well. Demographics, which generations are, are into these cars or not, and whether or not [00:22:00] these cars are steady at the auctions. Definitely this is meant to supplement or assist in the process.

I always tell people to get an proper appraisal, get a recent, a fresh one, so you know also what you’re dealing with in terms of condition and comparables. With this, I’m coming up with 160,000 US for that generation of tester, Rosa, if you’re looking for a sale, and as far as reserve prices, so if you’re taking one to auction,

Crew Chief Eric: just don’t want listeners to think that, well, this is the Kelley Blue Book for classic cars.

’cause it’s not.

David Neyens: Gosh, no, no.

Crew Chief Eric: Because if you think about the things that you’re describing and the one to five scale and take into account mileage and the options and the color and that. Mm-hmm. Kelly does the same thing for pedestrian cars. Yep. We wanna make sure that we differentiate when we’re talking about this.

Maybe this is a future capability. Say I’m going the other direction and William and I have these conversations all the time. I got 200,000 to spend. So tester Rosas on the list, but how does this compare to maybe a car that’s older of more significance or a car that’s newer that might not have all these mechanical issues like you talked about engine out to do timing [00:23:00] belts.

Chain driven Ferrari where I can spend 200 grand and still have a V 12 or whatever it is. So, comparables across vehicles or is that yet to come?

David Neyens: That’s something I’m gonna be rolling out a bit more as I, as I evolve things. The biggest thing is if you’ve got a more rare car. It’s going to score higher in my scoring matrix.

If it’s easier to maintain, that’ll have a better score too. So you could take a car that’s less exotic, but perhaps more rare in terms of build numbers. It’ll have its own scores and weightings that’ll help us to determine value, but it also ties into what auction and online, offline, and dealers are selling for.

But there might be a chance to identify through this system, a car that might break out to the buy side. Or one that’s already been loved in the market and it might be time for a pause or a break in selling or, or value. So it just depends on the individual, you’re make and model kind of thing. And it, it’s individual attributes Above all, you know, this should be something that would be considered to help with selling, marketing, and auction set up for a [00:24:00] car like this.

Always have an appraisal though from a, an accredited appraiser in combination, I figure that more information is better than less. Of course.

Don Weberg: David, are you primarily focusing on the exotics on the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of Porsches, or are you gonna grow this out to. As Eric always has more pedestrian type cars.

I mean, for example, the IROC Camaro Yeah. Is absolutely going crazy right now. They are, and that to me has always been, I mean, I don’t wanna say surprising. I’ve always liked that car. Always knew it would be somewhere I don’t think I knew it would be this. Somewhere. So is that a car that’s on your site?

Are we looking at oddballs like for a name? Taurus, SHO. Yeah. That car is slowly starting to percolate or are you sticking to that narrowed? We love exotics. Where, where are we going with this?

David Neyens: Yeah. The starting point was just me doing some test cases and then illustrating the methods that I’m using to get my numbers.

If it was anything, like you said, uh, an IROC from the eighties and there’s a couple of different flavors of them, enough [00:25:00] that you can break that down into more granular. Types of cars inside of them? Like are you looking at the five liter or the 5.7? Are you looking at the one L?

William Ross: Yeah, it’s got the compact.

David Neyens: Yeah. I’d love to tackle those because there’s a huge amount of sales data on those and the good cars, like the really nice unadulterated original cars are so rare in that space. It’s like fox Mustangs. But I think what I would do is I’d have to break it down like you said, and thank you for that. You said the iroc, so that gives me more certainty with what I’m dealing with.

The only difference would be powertrain colors and condition and mileage. That’d be an interesting test case. So if someone wanted me to do that, I, I, I’d be happy to run one and, and just so they see it, because that’s a, a more mainstream car right now. It’s like second generation F bodies are starting to kind of make a nice breakout.

They were everywhere and people just kind of went, we like ’em, but we don’t know why. They’re not really doing much in the market, and you can buy much more powerful cars or this, that, or the other thing. But they were very special for their time. And now [00:26:00] people like me, I had a 10th anniversary, uh, TransAm back in the eighties that I saved up for with farm money and lawn mowing and hay baling money and tobacco picking money.

And that was my first car. And, and I absolutely adored it. But now second Gen F. Bodies are starting to get their due a little bit in the market. So I’m appreciating seeing those kind of cars that were produced in larger numbers, having attention now with enthusiast. Yeah, absolutely. I’d love to see what fits a buy seller.

A hold over my four time periods.

Don Weberg: I brought up the Camaro ’cause it’s a common, and it’s certainly not in the, uh, in the ballpark of pastor or tta or any of those guys.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s not necessarily true, Don. And that this adds another use case. To the equation here in that you have cars crossing the block in Mecu at Barrett Jackson at other auction houses where you have a modified Camaro or a Resto Modd Camaro, or something that is, you know, is a SEMA quality car, which is beyond concourses level.

Is that being taken to account here? Because those will sell for $200,000 all day long,

Don Weberg: right? Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: David, how are you absorbing those [00:27:00] modified versions instead of the original purist cars?

David Neyens: I think that the modified cars, especially F Bodies and Corvettes, especially second generation Corvettes, there’s just so many of them that are built to that standard that are restomod, couple of orders of magnitude better than the original car in terms of what it’s like to drive or operate.

What I would do in those cases is separate that out, you know, look at the modified cars more in isolation that are done to a show standard as opposed to something that’s more original.

Crew Chief Eric: It changes your metrics again, because those cars need to be considered, let’s say they’re numbers matching. Even though they’re modified, they still are in the same category as a numbers matching stock car.

Why would we take them out? It gets a little gray really fast.

David Neyens: Well, if the car that the customer’s asking me about is a stock or a modified car, then that’s where I’m gonna have to like break that out. So I’m comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. That’s why I started out with four GT Heritage.

That’s a very uniform car. Unless it’s been modified and there are a few out there,

Crew Chief Eric: like you were [00:28:00] saying before, what’s my car worth? And somebody says, no, David, that’s not what it’s worth. I just saw a Copo Xma car go across the block and it’s 250,000. Why isn’t my Camaro 250,000? Right? So now you get into this tug of war again of worth versus value.

So I wanna make sure that we establish that so people really understand what the intrinsic value is versus what it’s worth. So one is more subjective than the other. I know I keep harping on this, but I think it’s important for the first time collector to understand that you just don’t walk up to an auction, go, I want that one, or I’m gonna sell mine because I saw that one.

Right? It’s not a monkey see, monkey do situation.

David Neyens: Now I’ve seen people do that actually walk right up to me at an auction and just say, how much is that car? I wanna buy it right now. I didn’t buy it last night. There are people out there that are like that. Again. Yeah. I’d have to parse out is the car modified?

Is it standard? Is it, you know, rest a monitor? Is it just lightly modified? I mean, headers and duals don’t make anything too much of an outlier. In this case. It’s gonna be a little bit of a custom job.

William Ross: I always like that there’s expectation. There’s reality [00:29:00] that I always like, ’cause people have this expectation.

But then here’s reality.

David Neyens: Here’s where I found the gap is widest is dealing with. An enthusiast type car that someone’s owned for a while and they have a bit of an emotional bond with, there’s a, an older couple, a few years ago they had a 56 Ford Fairlane, crown Victoria. They’d owned it for 30, 35 years.

They loved it. They went cruising with it, but it’s a driver. They were so attached to it that, again, when you’re talking about value versus worth. They had 30 years with it of fun cruising and showing they bought it when it was not worth comparatively as much as it is now. And certainly inflation also figures into the numbers that people are expecting to get from a car.

A million dollars today was a hundred thousand dollars about 15 years ago, or 20 years ago. I’m exaggerating a little bit, but there’s a big gulf based on inflation. So I said to the pe, the lady I said. What do you have in mind for a value? She told me and I said, now, just so that you know, in this market right now, that’s a bit on the high side, and you know, does the car owe you [00:30:00] anything?

Do you owe money on it? Was there a huge expense that you’ve had over the last few years that’s going to affect your decision? And often a lot of people. When they’ve made a big investment in a vehicle after buying it, they feel they need to recoup that last dollar they put into it. And that’s another thing.

But I’ve seen the gulf between market value and personal value or worth is huge on the more mainstream side of cars. A lot of people on the higher end of the market are kind of dialed in and they want to do the best when they’re selling and they wanna do, do the best when they’re buying and get the lowest price.

But I’ve seen it more on the sub $50,000 car market where there’s that kind of golf cars can even, like, depending on where they come from. I’m not drilling down into that aspect of it right now, but there’s certain markets or certain locations where cars are just uniformly of better quality. Especially in the mainstream side or the enthusiast side.

William Ross: Obviously you know, you’re doing these for a customer or client, you know, so it’s obviously model specific, but what is driving you to put ones onto your site for general consumption? Yeah. How are you picking what to put on your site then? Because obviously the tester was a great [00:31:00] example. I think the four GT one’s a great one too, because you know it’s a very popular car, but how are you going about picking those, what you’re gonna put on the website for just general consumption?

David Neyens: For those that are like test cases that I’m publishing proactively, there’s a finite bill number. Now the tester is not particularly rare with over 7,000 built, but it’s far more rare than a lot of other exotics and uh, high performance cars despite that many being built. The tester is styling the cultural status of it.

You know, having been on Miami Vice and that whole thing. I think that just is a good test case because that’s something that a lot of people, whether or not they own one or plan to own one, they can at least identify with to some extent. The four GT on the other hand is that Heritage Edition is just.

Really rare. There’s no question as to whether or not they’re real or faked. That’s the other thing. Unlike some vehicles that out there that have that potential, both of ’em. I mean, I’ve only seen a few modified gts, let alone a heritage that’s been modified and tester roses. I don’t see them being modified very often at all.

No, you don’t. So it’s a nice case because they’re fairly uniform [00:32:00] in that subset of cars. Or the models that their manufacturer made. So I thought I’d try those because I think there’s some rarity to them. There’s some visual impact. The performance aspect is interesting and they’re just interesting cars all around that.

People, I think, would gravitate to just to throw that out there just to show what my different tools, if I run a certain year, make model through those filters. Is it a buy? Is it a sell? Is it a hold? What are the timeframes for those things?

William Ross: It’s a good example for, I would say a sales tool for you in regards to getting clients.

Yeah. They see that. They’re like, oh, okay. It’s a good basis to work from for somebody to get the idea of what you’re capable of doing. That’s what I took from that. I was like, wow, this is great. If someone sees it, Hey, I want an individual report, that the right thing. It’s like, there you go. It says it all right there.

So that was fantastic.

David Neyens: Sort of just a couple of test cases. I’m gonna keep rolling them out and also the market changes. From auction to auction or there’s trends definitely. But the idea is eventually, uh, those reports will need to be freshened up a little bit and to see how they compare. So maybe a year from now I go back and just have a look at how do my calls hold up.

And the idea is if they [00:33:00] hold up or maybe there’s some tweaks that need to be made or maybe something happened in the market in general that’s, uh, affecting market values in that space. Say the 250,000 and over, or the a hundred thousand and over market segments.

William Ross: Yeah. How are you going to make. That decision to go back and revisit something to adjust it to your 0.6 months or a year, I mean, or you just go, oh, the market seems to be gone a different way.

I had just done that, so I better go back and do it. I mean, you could have a set time maybe, or just gonna say what the market does, if it necessitates it to do it.

David Neyens: I was doing a forward market index looking ahead the next 30 days in the market, and then to get a score as to just the market in general, its health.

And whether it’s bear neutral or or a bull market, kind of like in financial terms. What I’ve done now is I’ve changed that to weekly. So I’m doing weekly forecasts. Right now. I’m only getting them published Tuesdays or Wednesdays, but it’s for the week ahead. Then afterwards, when this week is over on Monday, I’m gonna run a report and that’s the market pulse and that’s my Fear Andre Index.

And I’m gonna say, [00:34:00] how did my forecast hold up against reality? I’ve done a couple of posts now that show that both the weekly forecast and then the look. Back the retroactive look. Those are both now pretty closely aligned. So it’s, it’s showing that the methodology is jiving. When I make a forecast using my system, when I look back the next week, they’re almost in line with each other perfectly.

So, yeah, I, what I’d probably want to do is maybe a month to three months out at the end of the year, say, how did my report on the test Aerosa workout? Did that logic hold up? Did my call on the four gts? How did that hold up over this period of time? You just do a little bit of back testing like that just to show that it’s working.

William Ross: I like how you’re, you’re referencing t how did I do? Yeah, in regards to forecast, which is great ’cause a lot of people would bury it ’cause they don’t wanna look like they prove it wrong or had no idea. But anyone that knows this industry and business, you never know. I mean, you can use all the numbers you don’t know, but I really like that too.

Yeah. I was like, look, here’s how it went

David Neyens: and I don’t have anything to hide. I’m just putting this out there. This is my method. Does it hold up? Okay, great. It did hold up. So I’ve [00:35:00] had two one week periods where the, uh, forward look and the look back were in line with each other. They almost had the same scores, you know, so the look back is the reality and the look forward is the forecast.

Of course, that seems to be working. One of the things I’ve worked in is sort of geopolitics a little bit too. You know, how’s the news? Is it bad or is it stable? Or is it good? You know, or is everybody getting along now? In this week’s newsletter once I get it out. Finally, the first post is I’m breaking a golden cardinal rule here.

I’m actually discussing politics. One of the things I should be talking about, but here’s a buffet of seven potential black swans that could land anytime. I don’t wanna throw cold water and everything. The market’s been good. The market has breadth. There’s a wide market. There’s a huge number of types of cars, classifications of cars, enthusiasts to investor grade and everything in between.

So it’s not like the narrow Ferrari market of 35 years ago, and that’s it, where it’s very risky and speculative. Also, the last 25 to 30 years, there’s a just a [00:36:00] massive amount of money in the system, despite the news you hear. There’s people that are getting huge bonuses and they have to put it somewhere.

There’s only so much real estate you can buy. There’s only so much fine wine, cigars, time pieces you can buy. So, so that’s where the, our market’s, uh, really been getting an uplift as well. There’s a chart, I’ve got a report on showing insider buying and selling of stocks, but with one or two brief. Moments since 1998, company insiders have been selling stocks and freeing up capital and buying cars among other things as well

William Ross: can be a lot more prevalent.

I mean, you’ve seen it now where they got the investor goose, whatnot, buy a chair for $20 and whatever, you know?

David Neyens: Oh, yeah. Like the fractional ownership. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve only just recently seen four or five of them where there were one of them that’s kind of cropping up right now. It’d be interesting to see how that goes.

I mean, what I’d like to do is actually build a list where there’s a specific set of, say, 20 different year make and model of cars that have the most potential to be good to purchase. They’re not overpriced right now. They’re emerging as collectibles, and someone could put a fund [00:37:00] together or put a group together or for themselves and use those reports as guidance.

To build a garage full of great cars and hopefully enjoy them. It’s not all about the money. Drive ’em. Absolutely. It’s a major consideration for people getting into purchase or getting into the market. But for me, it’s the love of them. I see stuff on marketplace every day. There’s beautiful cars being sold for less than 10,000 Canadian dollars that have less than 50,000 miles on them, and they’re fun and interesting.

You don’t have to spend a huge amount of money on something like this. It can be a really fun hobby. I think the biggest thing is, for me, it was just simply. There’s other content creators out there that are doing that job so well and building their niche so well. I have rudimentary skills with a camera.

Forget video. There’s other people that have bigger followings or they know how to work the algorithms to get the right response they want. For me, it was simply, I’d like to see if I can add some value to people where you can take a look at these reports or you can order a report from me and I can build it.

And then that gives you some [00:38:00] confidence as to what you’re doing. Or maybe it’s a confidence in something you’re not doing. Maybe it’s saying, I better just hold onto this for another year. If it’s not costing me money, if it’s not hurting me, maybe I just hang onto it.

William Ross: This has been interesting. In the past few years, there’s been an explosion in regards to value in classic race car.

They’ve been going to the roof and you have log samples going across the board. You know, we had X collection go for 650 million. I mean, that was an incredible thing, but. Would you be able to do a report on someone that’s looking at, Hey, I’m looking at this XY, ZX formula, the one car from 1969, or you know, old Lamont’s car.

Is that something you could potentially do as well for an old race car?

Crew Chief Eric: And I want to dovetail off that, William, because I think now when David takes that into account, he needs to invert his scale because a concourses quality race car never raced. Yeah. Right. You want the one that’s the driver with the miles.

Yeah. That won a championship. So you actually have to skew your data set opposite for this. Yeah.

David Neyens: For a competition car. Exactly. Yeah, because you, you have to have some earmarks of actual use in [00:39:00] combat or in anger. There’s a Jaguar D type once a few years back. I think it brought over $20 million at auction in Monterey.

That was achieved, even though that card had been beaten up so much that the chassis tag was the only thing, and the, and a stamp on, on one of the frame rails was all that was left of it that actually crossed the finish line At Lamont, there’s a lot of Ferrari that have been re bodied or whatever, and it’s part of the story.

The one of the coolest ones for me is that two 50 GT uh, bread wagon. I used to know the fellow that owned it one or two owners ago, and he raced it in vintage races.

Crew Chief Eric: We saw it this summer at Lamont Classic.

David Neyens: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s driven, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Oh yeah. It was raced at full tilt this summer. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, and the thing

David Neyens: about it though is, okay, so a lot of body panels, it got stuffed a couple times and it’s mostly there.

And you know, some expert redid the body, I mean. As authentic as it can possibly be, but the car was reburied back in the day, so does it really matter? You know, that car’s raced and it’s been in combat kind of thing, and to me that just makes that car even cooler and more [00:40:00] desirable than a lot of others.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s take that back to our Testa. Yeah, use case or our Camaros and everything we’ve been talking about so far. Can you touch upon your feeling as it applies to the data when you start getting into the age old, debate preservation versus restoration? ’cause if I look at those five categories, yeah. As we move down to the driver, you know, the negatives to get applied to the value of the car.

You could also say that a preservation car lives there because it’s never been serviced. It’s been driven. It’s ori. Yeah. But a lot of people pay top dollar for a preservation class car versus a restoration concourse.

David Neyens: Well, yeah, and that was a completely opposite, flipped 20, 30 years ago, where everything had to be like jewelry.

Crew Chief Eric: What I

David Neyens: can do is, the nice thing is if I have logic, I can just change some of the scoring around a little bit to recognize the fact that a preservation class car is actually worth more Now in certain, certain circumstances, like it’s an unrestored classic Enzo. V 12 Ferrari, and if it’s presentable and it’s got a great story, [00:41:00] then there’s something to be said for that.

So I think there’s adjustments that can be made, just like when you’re adjusting comps on an appraisal,

William Ross: like with Ferrari, Jaguar, Mercedes, you know, you’re seeing the manufacturer come up with their own class, each department, and restoring these cars. How much value is that adding to it compared to going to an expert store that’s been doing it for 30, 40 years?

I mean, they’ve won Pebble Beach, they’ve won all this stuff, you know, it’s great. But how much does the manufacturer trump someone like that? Percentage wise, or is it really kind of a wash? Does it matter?

David Neyens: A classic department restoration from the factory. Versus an expert level restoration or a Conor level restoration externally by a specialist.

There’s times where I’ve seen value bumps, and you’ve seen them too, where if a known re restorer with a great reputation and a great crew hold off a concor winning restoration, or a multiple award. Restoration, I would think that that would actually enhance value. But I’ve also seen in the market where that has not enhanced value at an auction or a sale situation.

Because 30 years ago, a jewelry level restoration that [00:42:00] removed all the patina was worth more than preservation car. And now we’ve seen it flip, see in V 12 Ferrari, as you know, in matters to me, uh, and to a lot of people I’ve worked with. If a noted specialist who was still alive at the time did the, the engine rebuild, for example, that trumps a no name.

Even though they did good work, you know, sadly, I mean, there’s a name that’s built for a good reason and that’s because they’ve done good work. Then I think that helps with the value. There’s a lot of subjective factors though.

William Ross: Well, I get it. In my world, Hey, so and so did the register. That’s who you want.

Does it have it Red Book? You know, has it gone through class sheet? It’s like, okay, yeah, it’s got this redwood, but doesn’t always kind of really bugged me a little bit. That’s what everyone wants, and now it’s getting more prevalent in newer cars, so to speak. It’s creeping up into your nineties, early 2000 cars, depending on what it is model wise.

That’s the thing that’s like number one to have right off the bat if you’re selling a fry’s.

David Neyens: I think you touched on something really important here and, and that’s in auction work and catalog writing. What kind of paperwork does this car have? Is it a Carfax that only picks up history, uh, [00:43:00] starting in the, in the late nineties or early two thousands?

And the car’s 40 years old. You see a lot of things. But like the classic K book is awesome. It makes my job easier. FIA paperwork, if it’s a, a race car or homologated car. But I’ve also seen, there was a Chaparral mark, one they made, two of them. I might might have made more, I’m not sure. But it’s the one car that’s not in the, uh, Midland, Texas, uh, oil museum, Jim Hall’s place.

It’s the only one I think that’s out in the wild somewhere. And, uh. That car had an amazing amount of paperwork, and it was extremely confusing, but when you get into it, there were things that were known in the pre-internet era, and there were things that were believed to be true because someone saw a car like it somewhere.

It turns out they didn’t have them separated out properly, and histories get confused. So I actually had to take original shipping documents, copies of those, and the car went through several forms throughout its lifetime until it was restored as faithfully as possible. It was a lister, excuse me, it was a Lister Chevrolet.

Okay. Sorry. It was something from that [00:44:00] period though. And the point was there was a, a mass of paperwork and then there were letters based on what someone truly, honestly believed. They weren’t fabricating anything. It was just. This is in the eighties vintage race cars were starting to be appreciated and collected and sold, and then it really became important to get the story straight.

And so there was quite a lengthy process to get through it all. So despite the volume of paperwork, that was just the beginning. That was like put a banker’s box in front of you and then you go through that for two weeks and try not to go crazy. Then there’s other things that are far more cut and dry.

There’s, you know, the. Manufacturer statement of origin, like Alpha Romeo say, or Maserati. There’s, uh, copies of factory documents, so you know exactly how that thing left the factory. It’s, it’s funny because sometimes there’s a massive paperwork or massive documentation that is less of a help than you would think.

And then there’s others that are very much more direct. And you’ve seen that too, probably. Oh, yeah. And Don, you’ve seen that too. I mean, and you know, as a writer there’s more research, the more documents you have, but that’s always one of the biggest things is how well is the car documented? You know? Is anybody [00:45:00] still with us that I’ve interviewed people like.

There was a All American Racers, IndyCar, about seven or eight years ago that I had to do a writeup for, for an auction, and I was able to call Dan Gurney’s all American racers when he was still alive. His administrative assistant, Kathy was right there and she said, oh yeah, yeah, I’ll just go upstairs. I know where the box is, where the paperwork is for it.

And she was able to like that. And they did that once though. And then after that it was kind of like a bit more reluctance to do it. I don’t know why, but it just created work. She was willing to do it. God bless her. I mean, it was funny and she gave me like the original invoice to whoever it was that raced the car.

It was bang, bang, bang that this is it. Here’s who did any, any work to it and you know, and it didn’t get destroyed in back in the day. So

William Ross: yeah, there’s a couple of ’em. We have a gentleman that we’re all good friends with. He has the online database, storage of documents for your classic car, digitize, everything like that, that way, and then it can transfer over and how it’s encrypted or whatever.

You’re

Crew Chief Eric: talking about Julio at

David Neyens: the motor chain? Yes. So he is probably on blockchain then with it?

William Ross: Yeah,

David Neyens: an immutable record.

William Ross: Yeah. I really think that’s great because [00:46:00] then to your point, oh, it’s not lost. There it is. You know, it’s an actual, tangible asset. Absolutely. I always like what he’s doing with that.

I thought that it’s fantastic

David Neyens: and it lives on, I mean, the thing is. You have the provenance locked in as much as it can be. There it is. And it can be accessed and not messed with after that. Correct. I think that’s fabulous. You always hear about technology’s going to do this and do that, and it’s be worried.

That’s a great use case for technology. Yes. Something like that. And if it lends. Strength to the authenticity of the documents and to the vehicle itself. Well, that’s a win-win.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, on that note, let’s move into our final segment here and just sort of talk about the services that you’re providing, David.

And so you talked about putting these prospectuses together upon request to do the proof of concept to show that the math works. That’s right. To show that the algorithms work and all that kind of stuff. So basically walk us through your business process, meaning somebody say, Hey David, I listened to this podcast.

What’s the process look like? How much does it cost? Are you doing this as a service?

David Neyens: Yeah, it would be done on a fee basis, a [00:47:00] case by case basis on request. I’m still working out what kind of pricing would be appropriate. I don’t wanna undercharge, I don’t wanna overcharge, but it’s, it’s just something I’m gonna have to like, get some feedback from people and I have a sort of a target in mind.

So it’s just pretty early stages here. What I’m doing.

Don Weberg: So David, after going through all this, what’s the next step for you and Motorcopia?

David Neyens: Well, the next step is to keep forging ahead. Actually, it’s kind of exciting. I’m in the beginning of reaching out to lenders, insurers, leasing companies, industry people, and alternative investment managers, family offices.

So that’s the next step, reaching out, introducing myself, and urging people to sign up for the Motorcopia newsletter. I’ve worked really hard on the subject matter, and that’s my expertise. The online marketing is something that I have to work on and something that I need to do to roll things out better, but there’s nothing like a good old fashioned phone call or email.

So that’s the next step is just basically contacting people and urging them to sign up or gimme permission to sign them up for the Motorcopia newsletter. [00:48:00] Take a look at my reports. I’m moving to a, uh, paid model, but again, I’m working on the pricing and the levels, but I want people to see it and talk to me and if there’s, you know, suggestions or ideas about things that can be changed or updated.

Glad I got to get your feedback on the ones on the website because I was afraid that I was going too far with the information. Oh, no. And I’m glad for that. That makes me feel so much better because I don’t wanna write a book. On the other hand, you have to be able to. Defend or justify or promote what you’re saying, that there’s a thought process that goes on.

William Ross: Well, no, it was great delving into it. ’cause you know when you start, you’re going through your, you have your charts and the numbers and what I thought was great ’cause then all of a sudden, you know, I start seeing writing, I’m like gonna go into history and stuff like that, which I really don’t need. But that was just a quick little blurb.

Like a paragraph? Yeah. Maybe I go Perfect. Because I want the numbers and everything like that. I know the history of the car, I know all this stuff, da da da. For sure. What I wanna see is, okay, what’s this thing been doing previous? That’s why I, I thought it was fantastic. ’cause it it given you what you want and it’s not giving you what you don’t need and want.

It’s like, [00:49:00] Hey, this is why came. Yeah. This is what I’m supposed to be getting out of this. You have it set up great in regards to how everything’s laid out.

David Neyens: Well, thank you. I, I’m glad to get that feedback. That’s huge and, and me as a writer, I mean, I, when I’m not restricted to a word character and page count, we can all probably go right to town on it.

But is that what someone needs or wants? And, and that’s the other side of it. You want some information to take action or decide that you’re already in a good place holding or considering buying the best example of a car that you want. My whole thing is, while this is numbers driven and data driven, it’s passion driven at the root.

What I’m doing, and it’s a different approach to what I’ve been doing. So it’s, it’s actually pretty refreshing. I’m trying to get down to a, a reasonable editorial schedule where I’m putting out a newsletter every week with four or five good articles in it that I hope would give somebody either comfort or help them to say, yeah, you know what?

I do need to start considering the next set of options. Yeah, the market’s good or the market’s stable. Yeah, it’s been a great fit and I, and I’m hoping it’s something that’s unique [00:50:00] enough that my target audience will appreciate it or get proper information from, for their own life. I was just thinking I could do another content site.

I could look at doing buyer’s guides or I could do some price, uh, explorations and things like that. And then I. Let’s look at the market. The first thing was the, uh, Motorcopia market pulse index that I set up, and it’s, it’s kinda like a fear and greed kind of index just to tell you if the market is cold, medium, or hot.

It’s kinda like Goldilocks and the three Bears give you an idea of what last week’s market action was like and is the market stable? Our, our dealers filling their, their showrooms still as aggressively as before. Is there good sale activity? Is there a where the sell through is good at the auctions of last week?

Things like that. So, uh, just kind of a bit of a reading between the lines for people too.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, David, we’ve reached that part of the episode where I’d like to invite our guests to share any shout outs, promotions, thank yous, or anything else we haven’t covered thus far.

David Neyens: Two things, if anybody wants to, I have a special report on the collector car market in [00:51:00] 2025, and my forecast through the end of this year, through the end of the fourth quarter, it’s a PDF download.

I’d be happy to send that out to any of your listeners. Would like it. They reach out to me at admin@motorcopia.com and just let me know that they’d like a copy of that report. I will send the PDF over to them and hopefully start a relationship with that and add value to their, uh, car collecting or their world.

Secondly, and most importantly, I’d like to thank probably my best friend in the field who’s been my biggest supporter since I’ve been independent as a writer in 2012. And that’s Cindy Meitle of, uh, car pr USA. She is probably the og, the original gangster of. Collector, car promotion and public relations.

And if you have a worthy event, product or service in the collector car market or collector car field, I urge you wholeheartedly to reach out to Cindy at CAR PR USA and you’ll get the best support possible to get the word out.

Don Weberg: Motorcopia is a digital platform and publication founded by automotive writer and auction expert David Neyens.[00:52:00]

It caters to collector cars, enthusiasts, investors, dealers, and anyone interested in the market dynamics of classic, exotic and special interest vehicles. The focus isn’t just on car culture, it’s driven by data. Motorcopia offers tools, analysis, and reports to help people make informed decisions about buying, selling, holding, or investing in collector cars.

Crew Chief Eric: And David, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Break Fix and sharing your story with us and educating us on data-driven decision making when it comes to collector car buying, selling, and holding. It’s obvious in the way you talk, your passion, your expertise, all of it is there, and I wish you the best of luck on your latest endeavor and we will see where this goes.

Maybe the next 30, 60, 90, 12 months from now. Right? There you go. Yeah, as you say on the website. So thank you for doing this.

David Neyens: Thanks very much for having me, guys, and it’s been a pleasure. Appreciate it.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah.

David Neyens: Good to meet you, David. Thank you. Thanks

Crew Chief Eric: again to Don and William as well.

Don Weberg: Thanks

Crew Chief Eric: for having me.

Don Weberg: All the best.

You too.[00:53:00]

Since 2007, garage Style Magazine has been the definitive source for car collectors continually delivering information about Automobilia Petroliana events and more. To learn more about the annual publication and its new website, be sure to follow them on social media at Garage Style Magazine or log onto www.garagestylemagazine.com because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage.

ECM PROMO: For everything from Ferrari and Porsche, Lamborghini and Konig seg, visit exotic car marketplace.com. If you’re into anything with wheels and a motor, log onto to the Motoring Podcast network and check out our family of podcasts@motoringpodcast.net. This is the place to find your favorite news show. Next up a shout out to David Beatie and his team at Slot Mods who custom build some of the coolest slot car tracks in the world@slotmods.com.[00:54:00]

Let your imagination run wild. And finally, grand touring motorsports covering all aspects of auto racing and motorsports history. Check out their ezine@gtmotorsports.org. All the links for our sponsors are in the description.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports.

If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org. We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon.

For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators. [00:55:00] Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports.

And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet David Neyens
01:37 David’s Journey into Automotive Journalism
03:15 The Birth of Motorcopia.com
04:20 Understanding Motorcopia’s Unique Platform
06:41 Deep Dive into Car Valuation Methods & Challenges in Car Valuation
18:01 Worth vs. Value in Car Appraisals
24:08 Expanding Motorcopia’s Scope
28:41 Understanding Car Modifications
29:04 Emotional Value vs Market Value
33:28 Weekly Market Forecasts
40:06 Preservation vs Restoration Debate
42:50 Documenting Car History
46:31 Motorcopia’s Business Model
50:47 Final Thoughts and Promotions

Learn More

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

How It Works: The Motorcopia Method

Motorcopia delivers proprietary market indices – including the Market Pulse™, Forward Index™, Buy/Sell/Hold Index™, and ValueScope™ – alongside auction coverage, investment insights, and collector-vehicle analysis. With a focus on serving high-net-worth collectors, advisors, and industry professionals, combining deep cataloguing expertise with data-driven reporting to spotlight actionable trends, opportunities, and results across the global collector-car market.

David’s approach blends financial modeling with enthusiast insight. Each report scores a car out of 10 using 16 weighted data points, including but not limited to:

Recent sales trends and auction sell-through rates
Market liquidity and frequency of listings
Ownership costs and service complexity
Cultural significance and nostalgic tailwinds
Rarity, regulatory pressures, and generational appeal

For example, the Ferrari Testarossa – a car with over 7,000 units built – was analyzed as a “solid hold” with upside potential. Using Hagerty’s 1–5 condition scale, David forecasted a median value of $160,000 for a #2 condition car, factoring in auction results, private sales, and even pop culture relevance (yes, Miami Vice matters).

One of the most compelling parts of the conversation was the distinction between “worth” and “value.” We noted, appraised value might represent a high watermark, but actual market value is shaped by momentum, liquidity, and buyer sentiment. And David’s reports aim to bridge that gap – not by replacing appraisals, but by supplementing them with actionable market intelligence. “More information is better than less,” he emphasized. “This is meant to guide you and your advisors.”

Beyond Exotics: What’s Next?

While early reports focus on blue-chip models like the Ford GT Heritage Edition and Ferrari Testarossa, David is expanding Motorcopia to include enthusiast favorites, suggestions like the IROC Camaro and even oddballs like the Taurus SHO; both of which are gaining favor in the market right now, could be part of future reports.

Why? – Because these cars have passionate followings, rich sales data, and – when unmodified and original – can be surprisingly rare. “The good cars are so rare in that space,” David said. “It’s like Fox-body Mustangs.”

David was candid about AI’s potential and pitfalls, as part of an expansion of Motorcopia’s algorithm. “It’s a tool. It doesn’t replace what people are already doing,” he said. While AI can assist with data processing, it demands diligence and human oversight – especially in a field as emotionally charged and nuanced as collector cars.

Motorcopia isn’t just another valuation tool – it’s a strategic resource for anyone serious about understanding the collector car market. Whether you’re buying, selling, or holding, David Neyens is offering something rare: clarity in a world driven by passion.

As the collector car space continues to broaden – embracing Japanese classics, AMG Mercedes, and more – Motorcopia.com is poised to become an indispensable guide for the next generation of petrolhead investors.

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Holiday Shopping Guide, 2025

Drive Thru News

Tania M

-

November 25, 2025

0

In this 62nd episode of Break/Fix’s Drive Thru News, titled ‘The Ultimate Holiday Shopping Guide for the Petrolheads,’ hosts Crew Chief Eric and Brad pivot from their usual automotive news recap to present a special holiday shopping guide. The episode incorporates a playful ‘Automotive Dating Game,’ where executive producer Tania, the episode’s star, questions three panelists about their mystery cars to select one as a potential Christmas gift. Additionally, the episode features holiday gift suggestions for car enthusiasts, including a racing sim rig, LEGO car sets, retro cologne, art prints, and 1/64 diorama display sets. Sponsors are highlighted through various ad breaks, and the episode wraps up with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the fans and patrons who support the show.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Showcase: Holiday Shopping Guide ’25

So what do you get for the enthusiast that already has all their toys? – want to add to the list? Comment below! Below are all the articles, links and videos we talk about in this episode.

Get a custom SIM Rig designed by MIE Racing

Tania's first recommendation "for her" was a Racing Sim Rig. Consult with B/F guest David Middleton for you custom Sim Rig! ... [READ MORE]

LEGO Speed Champions "Formula 1" Series

Ready, set, go! LEGO® Speed Champions puts race car lovers in the driver's seat with realistic vehicle models from familiar racing competitors. ... [READ MORE]

Socks are the new tie!

In the world of motorsports, passion often finds its way into unexpected places – like your sock drawer. For fans of fast cars and bold fashion, Portugal-based Heel Tread has become a cult favorite, transforming iconic liveries and legendary vehicles into wearable art. ... [READ MORE]

Autel Scanner MaxiCheck MX808S

MaxiCheck MX808S bidirectional scanner is the m.ost competitive automotive diagnostic tool to date. With Rockchip RK3566 4-core CPU, 4GB RAM and 64GB ROM, built based on Android 11 platform, Autel MX808S provides 5X faster service speed than the old MK808/ MX808 and any other brand diagnostic tools which are built on the out-dated Android 4, no more slow and delayed feedback, it's time to update your garage with the 2025 new-est MX808S! ... [READ MORE]

Porcelain or Neon Garage Signs

Manufactured by Federal Electric, this original double-sided badge-style Phillips 66 sign presents gorgeously. The reddish-orange and black finish are accented by red and green neon. When Route 66 was being constructed in the 1920s, people were excited at the prospect of a single highway leading from Chicago to Los Angeles. The Phillips 66 sign debuted in 1930, just 3-years after the company opened up, and was inspired by a 66 MPH test run on a stretch of Route 66 in Oklahoma. The Phillips 66 sign combines the shape of the US highway sign with the 66 MPH speed of the test run. ... [READ MORE]

Custom Slot Car Track!

... [READ MORE]

THE AUTOMOTIVE WIRING MANUAL FOR BEGINNERS

A Complete Practical guide to Automotive Electrical Systems and Repair From basics to Advanced Wiring Projects and Solutions to Unusual Problems ... [READ MORE]

AAA Membership

Brad continues urge everyone to make sure they have constant coverage in case of emergency; get yourself some road-side assistance! ... [READ MORE]

Bendpak QuickJack

The QuickJack 6000TL portable car lift delivers an upgraded 6,000 lbs. lifting capacity with a reliable 24-inch lift height. Enhanced structural rigidity and a new hydraulic power unit give you faster, safer access to your vehicle’s undercarriage, perfect for your home garage or track day. ... [READ MORE]

The BlockZone: Audi Rally Quattro Group B 1984 3886pcs

Unleash the spirit of rally’s wildest era with the Audi Rally Quattro Group B 1984, a 1:8 scale masterpiece crafted from 3886 high-precision pieces. ... [READ MORE]

Grazie Alitalia, Best Of Edition

1/200 Best of Edition Every copy signed and numbered by the artist, Ricardo Santos. Cars highlighted with raised varnish printing for a beautifully striking and premium finish. Size 50 x 70 cm / 19.7 x 27.5 in. Unframed ... [READ MORE]

Aventi Designs Porsche Dealership - 1/64 LED Diorama - Hot Wheels Display

Experience the thrill of precision engineering with the Aventi Designs Porsche Dealership Diorama, a detailed 1/64 scale setup crafted for enthusiasts who appreciate performance, luxury, and design excellence. Whether you collect 911s, Caymans, or vintage Porsches, this battery-powered LED diorama is the perfect backdrop for showcasing your favorite models in a refined, showroom-style environment. ... [READ MORE]

1965 SHELBY/FORD Quilted Team Jacket

Officially Licensed by Ford Motor Company and Carroll Shelby Licensing, an exact replica of the Navy version of the iconic Carroll Shelby quilted team jacket! These were worn by the Shelby American team, and representatives of Ford Of France, at Le Mans and historic races through the 1965 racing season. ... [READ MORE]

Get away with Smoky Mountain Drives!

At Smoky Mountain Drives we organize driving adventures where like minded car enthusiasts can drive through the gorgeous scenery and amazing roads of the Great Smoky Mountains, all while enjoying great company! The roads of Eastern Tennessee and Western North Carolina are destination drives where people travel from all over the world to explore this region. All of the major exotic car rallies have made this area their drive destination, as well as iconic manufacturers such as Lamborghini, Porsche and even Pagani. Being local to these Great Smoky Mountains allow us to provide value packed events where car enthusiasts from a variety of backgrounds are treated to driving events that are second to none! On our drives, there is nothing else to think about. We have done the planning, the route selection, the driving notes, identified fuel stops, found fantastic hotels and eating spots! All you need to do is show up and be prepared to drive!. ... [READ MORE]

24 Hours of Le Mans Cologne Set

Born from the meeting of leather sophistication and the demands of the automotive world, Le Style embodies a distinctive fragrance, crafted for those who love to combine elegance, confidence, and passion. This set, created in collaboration with Corania, a renowned French perfumery house, includes the Le Style Eau de Parfum and its car fragrance diffuser. ... [READ MORE]

Porsche-inspired "FINNED" Mugs

Cylinder Mugs, inspired by iconic air-cooled engines, Finned blends design precision and passion, and is built for those who love coffee as much as cars. ... [READ MORE]

The Ferrari 250 GTO Spotting Guide A Definitive New Book for the World’s Most Iconic Car

Exclusive Kickstarter launch brings Ferrari’s most legendary model to life with more than 770 illustrations and detailed coverage of every chassis. ... [READ MORE]

**All photos come from the original article; click on the image to be taken to the original article. GTM makes no claims to this material and is not responsible for any claims made by the original authors or their sponsoring organizations. All rights to original content remain with authors/publishers.

Here are some other gift ideas from the GTM Team and Garage Style Magazine!

Check out some other gifts ideas and extra special bonuses that go with this episode!

Honorable Mentions

Aluminum Cans for Burned Children (ACBC).
Island Safe Harbor Animal Sanctuary – Learn how you can help!
The Tazio Nuvolari Collection – New line of Motorsports inspired clothing. (note: European Sizes; ships from Germany)
Not a member of the ACO USA? Did you know that you can purchase the entire Behind the Scenes collection of Evening With A Legend, and get continued updates for a one-time fee? Learn more about our exclusive online collection.
Don’t forget about BLIPSHIFT! Great place to stock up on CAR RELATED apparel too! & Heel Tread Socks
Tell your cars story with an AutoBio Tag!

Garage Style Magazine

Check out even more gift ideas over at Garage Style Magazine!

Garage Style Magazine (GSM) is what’s been missing. A publication devoted entirely to garages and collections – we cover collectibles such as automobilia, petroliana, neon, porcelain, and more; we also bring to you the ideas that make a garage work, such as tools, cabinets and storage solutions, car covers, lifts, and doors to name a few; and, of course, we work in a few lifestyle bits – electronics such as stereos, televisions, and other entertainment must haves, and some luxury products such as watches, briefcases, handbags, travel ideas and personal items.

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Shoutouts

You’ve probably heard us say many times that you can sign up for our Patreon for FREE! There’s lots of great extras and bonuses for you to enjoy. But there are folks in our community, friends of the show, and sponsors that have gone the extra mile and donated to help support the MPN and we want to acknowledge those folks personally:

Edward Hughes III
Laurie
Preston Lerner
Jim Manley
Dougie Kite
Bill
Jordan DaCosta
Mark Steigerwald
Mike Smith
David Beattie
Lia Lamela
BL
Mwenya Chewe
DeeAnn Hopings
Miamimiami47
Austin Belzer
Ruben Sanchez
w215 Motorsports
Marissa Cannon
Andrew Mulrean
Romano Conti
Mike Arrigo
Max Sonderby
Ashley McAnelly
Robert Barr
Mark Shank
Marc Huete
Bob Gillespie
Janet & Brian Worstell
Brett Sonderby
andrew voudouris (voo-doo-ree)
Brian Young
David Scherpf
John Caffese
B.J. Harrington
Sean Roberts
Harry Brill
Rebecca Griffith
Ryan Compton
John Richter
Dr. Gordon Bell
Ron Shurie
and Mike & Chrissy Crutchfield

Additionally, We’d like to thank all of our sponsors who helped us kick butt this season, (ROUND ROBIN)

William Ross and The Exotic Car Marketplace
Don Weberg from Garage Style Magazine
The Motoring Historian: Jon Summers
David Middleton from MIE Racing
Stefy Bau and the team at INIT ESports
Alison Kreitzer from the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing
David Lowe and the ACO USA Team
Rob Parr at Collector Car Guide.net
The International Motor Racing Research Center
And Project Motoring

Rich People Thangs!

TRANSCRIPT

Executive Producer Tania: [00:00:00] Welcome to Break Fixes, drive-through News, your monthly recap for everything fast, fascinating, and usually four wheels. We’re serving up a fresh batch of automotive headlines, motorsports madness, and car adjacent curiosities. All with zero wait time and maximum flavor from Formula One. Drama to Concept Car debuts with garage built.

To the quirkiest stories rolling out of the state of Florida, we’ve got your fix. So grab your coffee, buckle up, and let’s cruise through the latest in the world of wheels with a side of entertainment and just a dash of tire smoke.

Crew Chief Brad: Ho ho. Welcome to drive through episode number 62, but instead of our regularly scheduled ranting and raving, we’re back with the ultimate holiday shopping guide for the petrol heads in your life that might not have everything yet.

So let’s pull up the window, number one for some gift ideas.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, that sounds like the same thing we’ve done every year, doesn’t it, pinky?

Crew Chief Brad: It does bring,

Crew Chief Eric: how about we do something different this year? How [00:01:00] about instead of our standard holiday shopping guide, we dip into the waters of what should I buy with a special version of the automotive dating game?

Him.

And with that, I’m your host crew, chief Eric here to bring you laughs, surprises, and maybe even a little bit of buying advice. So just like the classic show from the Groovy 1970s, we’ve got three mystery cars waiting behind the curtain, ready to charm their way to the heart of our lucky collector. What do you think, Brad?

Crew Chief Brad: I think we’re ready to go. I think this is a fantastic idea. I think our motors are revved. We’re ready to go

Crew Chief Eric: first. Let’s meet the star of today’s show. She’s fun. She’s adventurous and ready to find a new ride that can keep up with her existing collection of collective cars. Please welcome our very own executive producer Tanya.

Executive Producer Tania: Hi everyone.

Crew Chief Eric: Hi, Tanya. I’m not sure I wanna take that. Looking for a new ride?[00:02:00]

All right, Tanya. Just like the classic 1970s game, the rules are simple. You’ll be asking questions to our panel of Petrolhead about the car they’ve selected for you. Remember, you can’t see the cars. You’ll get to know them by our panelists answers, and at the end, you’ll choose the car you’d like to take as your Christmas gift.

Alright, I’m ready. Well, now let’s meet our three panelists. Well, sort of again, their cars are hidden away, but I’ll give you a little teaser about each one. Contestant number one claims his car can launch off the line faster than an Apollo era rocket from Pennsylvania. Let’s welcome Max Zenman.

Max Kaiserman: Good afternoon, evening, and good night.

If I don’t see you later. Contestant number two is a world

Crew Chief Eric: traveler who claims they’ve never run out of fuel yet from the place the young kids call mid. Let’s welcome William. Big money Ross. Good

William Ross: evening

Crew Chief Eric: and contestant number three. He’s a foodie who believes pineapple absolutely belongs on pizza. All the [00:03:00] way from that great southern state of Virginia.

It’s crew Chief Brad,

Crew Chief Brad: we’re gonna find

Crew Chief Eric: out

Executive Producer Tania: as the youngins say in the mid, we’re gonna fho six seven.

Max Kaiserman: Oh geez, my son’s five. He doesn’t get these things yet. Thank God. It’ll be worse

Crew Chief Eric: then. But with that, let’s give a big round of applause for our contestants. But before we dive into the question round, let’s take a quick break for some holiday messages.

REVS PROMO: Explore the beauty of automotive history@revsphotos.com, the official source for fine art prints from Revs Institute’s digital library. Each image is carefully curated from the institute’s world renowned archive, capturing rare moments in motorsport and design history. Every photograph is digitally restored and available in premium print finishes perfect for collectors.

Enthusiasts and anyone who appreciates the art of the automobile. Visit revs photos.com to own an authentic piece of automotive heritage curated by [00:04:00] Revs Institute.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright folks, it’s time to play Tanya. The stage is yours. Time to ask away.

Executive Producer Tania: Are we ready for this? I am not, but let’s get into it. This is a question for all the Garage Queens, future Garage Queens, garage Queen Number one.

Would you consider yourself a summer or a winter?

William Ross: I believe I’d consider myself a summer.

Executive Producer Tania: Same question number two.

William Ross: Oh, I’m definitely summer ’cause I really enjoy going topless.

Executive Producer Tania: And number three,

Crew Chief Brad: I think I was designed and built in the summer, but I’m very much a winter vehicle.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. Which feature contestant number two would you add to

William Ross: yourself?

What I would add to myself, I don’t know. I’m pretty complete package, but the only thing I could think of that I would need to add would be maybe some fuzzy dice hanging off the rear view mirror. Oh geez. Garage queen number three

Crew Chief Brad: the same. Oh, what would I [00:05:00] like to myself? Yeah. I want the

William Ross: same question

Executive Producer Tania: on this.

Ooh,

Crew Chief Brad: he’s, he’s being sultry, being suspense, sultry. I’m doing this. The, the shatner. I would add something. I’m not sure yet. I don’t know that I would need to add anything. Maybe a bumper sticker that says I love Italia.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, we’ll throw this one at garage Queen number one as well.

Max Kaiserman: I think I would add space for my moon boots and helmet and possibly.

A little bit of extra fuel for 250,000 miles.

Executive Producer Tania: All right, you’re losing me here, but, uh,

then here we go. Garage queen number one. Since we’re going 250,000 miles worth of fuel, if we were going on this long road trip, what’s one thing you’d make sure was in the trunk?

Max Kaiserman: Uh, I don’t have a trunk to put any junk in. If I did. The luggage rack would have two [00:06:00] sparkling glasses of champagne for the two of us.

No, uh, don’t drink and drive kids. I think a luggage rack for my, um, moon rocks.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. Continue with the space theme. Do you think we’d make it on this long extended road trip?

Max Kaiserman: Oh yeah. You, me and a third guy. Actually, I think there’s three of us.

Executive Producer Tania: All right.

Max Kaiserman: Only see two. So someone’s sitting on someone’s lap.

Executive Producer Tania: We’re not gonna break down. We’re gonna make it.

Max Kaiserman: No breaking down, no nothing but good old parts made in, um, America.

Executive Producer Tania: America. All right, crash queen number three. What song would be playing on the radio?

Crew Chief Brad: I’m not sure. I like a big pizza Viol some more.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m gonna ask this question to everybody. Garage Queen two.

What songs playing on the radio

William Ross: wouldn’t be specific. One song, but would be a specific artist and that would be Bob Seger.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay. Number one,

William Ross: fly Me

Max Kaiserman: to the Moon. Let me play Among the Star. [00:07:00] Well, Frank Sinatra for y’all.

Executive Producer Tania: Alright, which is more important? Number two. Speed, style or utility?

William Ross: Oh, definitely style.

Definitely style.

Executive Producer Tania: We got those fuzzy dice. I don’t know if they were pink, but they were fuzzy dice in the mirror. Oh, they could be pink, definitely. Why not? I think I know the answer to number ones would also be style. ’cause we’re going to the moon. But maybe it’d be utility also. ’cause we can go to the moon.

Max Kaiserman: No speed. Baby Speed.

Executive Producer Tania: Speed. What about you? Number three? I can’t leave you out.

Crew Chief Brad: Please don’t leave me out. Definitely the style. And utility are the most important.

Executive Producer Tania: Oil and utility. All right. What is your least favorite trait about yourself? Number one.

Max Kaiserman: Hmm. I work too hard. I look great for my age, and I look great with the top up or tops off.

So, wait, that didn’t really answer your question, did it? [00:08:00]

Executive Producer Tania: So you love yourself. Okay.

Max Kaiserman: Since 1954.

Executive Producer Tania: Number two, same question. I want to hear from everyone. Least favorite trait. What could you change about yourself?

William Ross: Uh, I have a tendency to get a little hot pretty quickly.

Executive Producer Tania: Uh oh. Gonna overheat. All right. So we wouldn’t make it on a long road trip.

Well, the tops off. You could, that would cool

William Ross: everything down. Oh, okay.

Executive Producer Tania: Things in

William Ross: check.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. And number three,

Crew Chief Brad: I would say the thing I like least about me is that there just aren’t more of me around.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. Limited productions. And number three, there’s not many of you around. How do you feel about weather?

Crew Chief Brad: Oh, baby, I can handle any weather you need.

Executive Producer Tania: All right, all weather, all terrain. Maybe number two. If you were gonna star in a movie, what genre movie, or you can name a movie, however you feel like answering that.

William Ross: Oh, I would fit perfectly into Cannonball Run too.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. That would

William Ross: be ideal.

Executive Producer Tania: What about you?

Number [00:09:00] one,

Max Kaiserman: movies starring Tom Hanks, where he may or may not be stranded on an island with a coconut. Not on an island, but far away.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay, Tom Hanks movie. Horse gone.

Same question number three

Crew Chief Brad: was to star in a movie, TV show or whatever.

Executive Producer Tania: Sure. Or genre of film, comedy, romance, action.

Crew Chief Brad: I would be in a romantic comedy. But I wouldn’t be the star. I’d be in the background. Something that only Eric would see for a split second while watching the movie.

Executive Producer Tania: Did you see that? He’d pause. Take a screenshot and then share with all of us, and

Crew Chief Brad: then he would ask Daniel to look it up in the database.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m gonna circle back real quick to number two, Cannonball Run. Who in that movie would you most associate yourself [00:10:00] with? Bert Dom, Dee, Jackie Chan. Shirley McClain.

William Ross: Oh, no.

This would definitely be Mr. Burt Reynolds all over it.

Executive Producer Tania: Okay.

William Ross: And a newer version. I guess you would say

Crew Chief Eric: noon. Improved bird.

William Ross: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, but not dead one.

William Ross: Not a dead one. One. Still able to walk. But definitely I think a cowboy hat would go very well with this car.

Executive Producer Tania: Ooh, I’m getting some vibes. All right. What is your most worn out part or a part that you can’t obtain for yourself?

The elusive unobtainium part. Number three, what am I going to the mechanic for right away?

Crew Chief Brad: Definitely my wiring and my fuses. And my relays. Anything that is needed to make me actually run. I think you’re gonna need a mechanic garage. Queen number

Executive Producer Tania: one,

Crew Chief Brad: the

Max Kaiserman: brakes. ’cause we ain’t stopping.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh man. Number two, same [00:11:00] question.

William Ross: It would definitely have to be my front end ’cause it’s a very, very expensive park. They got pills for that now. Yeah, that might come in handy. Definitely to lift it up. You would definitely need something like that.

Executive Producer Tania: See, these are the vibes I was getting. All right, so those only

Crew Chief Brad: last four hours though.

Executive Producer Tania: Quite

William Ross: overheat.

Executive Producer Tania: Garage Queen number two. With that, are we getting into, or are we getting out of

William Ross: mischief? Oh, getting into mischief. Totally. Lots of smoke, lots of noise. Lots. Screeching and squealing.

Executive Producer Tania: All right. Garage queen number one. If you could race on any track, which track would it be?

Max Kaiserman: Probably a big, long runway someplace, my God.

But, uh, Lamont wasn’t too bad either for us.

Executive Producer Tania: Mm. Okay. All right. Number two, could you make it around a track?

Crew Chief Brad: Long as it wasn’t too long?

William Ross: Number

Executive Producer Tania: three,

Crew Chief Brad: Pikes Peak before it was paved.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s an intriguing [00:12:00] answer. Huh.

Crew Chief Eric: Oh no, that sounds signals. We’ve reached the end of our questioning. Tanya, you get one more opportunity to get some clues about your future car before we go into our decision round.

Executive Producer Tania: I will end it on a fun note.

Crew Chief Eric: This hasn’t all been fun.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh, it has all been fun. We’ll add whimsy to it.

Crew Chief Brad: Ooh.

Executive Producer Tania: Which superhero would drive you?

All around. Starting in reverse number three,

Crew Chief Brad: which superhero would drive me? Clark Kent, but not Superman.

Executive Producer Tania: Clark Kent, but not Superman. Okay. So we’re a star in a reasonably priced vehicle. Got it. Number two.

William Ross: Oh, this would have Captain America written all over it. Wow.

Executive Producer Tania: Number one,

William Ross: since

Max Kaiserman: they actually did comics for it, it would be Neil Armstrong.

Crew Chief Eric: [00:13:00] Well, Tanya, are you satisfied with your round of questioning? Do you have enough information to base your decision on

Executive Producer Tania: eating meaty miny mo?

Crew Chief Eric: Well, before we go in for the big reveal, how about a word from our sponsors?

Max Kaiserman: Geral the best thing since sliced bread. Geral. Get it now. Mostly opium, www.geral.com.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m so leading that in.

Rick Schad: I don’t know if it’s real website. I usually post all my models on LinkedIn. That’s kind of where I got my start. My first commissions came, believe it or not, from LinkedIn. And I build anything. It doesn’t have to be cars, I build anything, planes, boats, tanks, it doesn’t matter. So if you’re interested in having something really special, go to at the pope of plastic on TikTok at the Pope of Plastic on TikTok, also on Instagram at the popa plastic on, on uh, LinkedIn.

You can always. Find me at Rick Shad, [00:14:00] R-I-C-K-S-C-H-A-D-I post. You know, please reach out to me. You can also email me at Rick Shad, SCHA d@gmail.com, or you can email me at the popa plastic@gmail.com. We’d love to have you all come and visit me if you come and watch me at TikTok live. Just tell. Saw me, you know, on the internet or whatever, and I’d love to say hi.

And don’t be scared of TikTok for crying out loud. Don’t believe all the hype and feel free to ask me any questions.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, Tanya, you’ve heard from all three panelists about their cars. Now comes the big moment. You have 60 seconds in which to decide which car it’ll be. Is it Max’s? Williams or Brad

and your choice is,[00:15:00]

Executive Producer Tania: well, this is a really hard decision, honestly. I’m pretty sure I probably want. Garage Queen number three, but I don’t know what garage queen number one is at all, and I’m compelled to go with that. Garage Queen number two scares me and I feel like it’s outside my vibe zone. It’s probably on the opposite spectrum of your vibe zone,

Max Kaiserman: but don’t fear the unknown.

Embrace it. Embrace the unknown.

Executive Producer Tania: And I think I’m going to, as it was said, eclectic collection. The number one would definitely be adding to an eclectic collection. So we’ll go with garage queen number one,

Crew Chief Eric: flash down, and for our fabulous new couple, that’s Tanya and the car, we’ve arranged this. Special garage meetup for you, but first Max has to get that car run through the car wash. So we’ll talk about the cars you didn’t choose. So let’s see what [00:16:00] Tanya passed up, taking home to her garage tonight.

Panelist number three. Brad, what was your car?

Crew Chief Brad: Tanya’s going to be very upset that she passed on is a 2005 Alpha Romeo 1 56 Cross Wagon Q4 Turbo Diesel manual. Geez.

William Ross: I was to link to that bad boy. I was thinking you were going for a La Forza when you started saying utility. Driving it. Honestly. I was like, okay, that’s about Brad’s thing getting way out there. I think of La Forza.

Crew Chief Brad: It’s got utility. It’s all wheel drive. It’s a wagon manual. Turbo diesel. It’s the better Fiat Panda.

Max Kaiserman: I thought it was a Jeep that someone left in Italy for some reason. You know?

Crew Chief Eric: And I know we had a $50,000 budget. What did this car sell for Brad?

Executive Producer Tania: 49,009. Nine nine.

Crew Chief Brad: Look at the link.

Executive Producer Tania: Oh my God. What? How much was this?

Crew Chief Brad: 4,100 [00:17:00]

Executive Producer Tania: you say four grand. 4,100.

Crew Chief Brad: We’ve got $46,000 to have fun with on our date.

MUSIC: Oh,

Max Kaiserman: you could get it rewired and spend the rest of the time looking at each other longingly in the, in the lobby of, of the, of the service station.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. We’ve got $46,000 for AAA membership.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we heard from panelist number three with the Alpha Romeo. How about panelist number two? William, what did you bring to the party?

William Ross: Oh, we could go second Gen Dodge Viper. Mm.

Crew Chief Eric: What? Really, I, I could have sworn

William Ross: yours was a Cadillac.

Crew Chief Eric: I was thinking the same thing actually. Like an

Max Kaiserman: xts or something like that.

Crew Chief Brad: Thought he had to hook him. Horns on the front,

Max Kaiserman: eh?

Executive Producer Tania: Oh man. He threw me. When you’re talking about,

William Ross: well, when I said the Cannonball rundown, I was like, I wanna be show. That was the genre. Not so much fixing the movie and then, yeah, yeah. A newer version of Bert. So like an updated type. I thought [00:18:00] maybe the cowboy hat would do it.

Thinking Carol Shelby ish. You know, like

Executive Producer Tania: you threw me when it, you started talking about lifting it and dice. I thought it was gonna be some like squatted out

Crew Chief Eric: amino or something. Well, it’s a dodge. Yeah. Well, gentlemen, as a consolation prize for being the unlucky panelist, Tanya did not choose your cars.

You don’t go home empty handed. Tonight, we’ve registered you for the upcoming Mecu auction in beautiful Kissimmee, Florida. You’re on the hook for all the expenses, but don’t forget.

Don Weberg: Nobody sells more than Mecu nobody. Mecu Auctions is the world’s leader of collector car vintage and antique motorcycle and road art sales hosting auctions throughout the United States.

The company has specialized in the sale of collector cars for more than 35 years now, offering more than 22,000 lots per year and averaging more than one auction per month. Mecom Auctions is headquartered in Walworth, Wisconsin, and since 2011 had [00:19:00] been ranked number one in the world with the number of collective cars offered at auction, and its host to the world’s largest collective car auction held annually in.

Kissimmee Florida, as well as the largest motorcycle auction held annually in Las Vegas, Nevada Mecca’s Road a and Mecca on Time. Divisions offer a wide variety of collectibles for live and online auctions. You can learn more and follow Mecu and their upcoming events at www dot mecca. Dot com or you can follow them on social at mecom Auction on Facebook, at Mecom Auctions, on Instagram, at mecom, on Twitter, and at Mecom Auction on YouTube.

Crew Chief Eric: Nobody sells more than Mecu. Nobody. Alright, Tanya, this is it. Let’s meet the lucky winner.

Executive Producer Tania: I’m scared. Yeah. I wanna know what this is. I’m scared. This is gonna be something that’s like the equivalent of the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile or [00:20:00] something, but a space shuttle. All

Crew Chief Eric: right, max,

show her what you brought to the party. What has Tanya selected to take home to her garage today?

Max Kaiserman: As a representative of the, uh, historic Space Program, we are talking about a 1970 1,454 LS, five Corvette,

MUSIC: not too shatter.

Max Kaiserman: This one’s the convertible for more than what we talked about, but the T top in 71 was equally as nice.

Top on or top off, and no trunk.

Crew Chief Eric: So if you’re a female Corvette owner, do you still get the Jorts and the new balances? Does it come with it? No

Executive Producer Tania: big sunglasses and a scarf.

Max Kaiserman: Seventies glasses.

Executive Producer Tania: Audrey Hepburn, a scarf around and then big glasses.

Max Kaiserman: Yeah.

Executive Producer Tania: Hair blowing in the wind or, yeah. Wrapped up. Alright. All right.

I was scared. This wasn’t too bad.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, [00:21:00] folks, that’s all for today’s special holiday. What should I buy? Episode of the Automotive Dating Game. Thanks for joining us. And remember, your next ride might just be one question away, but stay tuned before, after the break for our next event, something we’re calling three Wise Bolts that.

EILFM PROMO: There’s so many podcasts out there. How do I find the one for me? For so long, I’ve searched for podcasts all over, but none of ’em seem to fit my needs. Where’s my Nick Cage Pissing fire podcasts? Where’s my monkey tickling? I couldn’t find it anywhere until I found everything I learned from Louis’s podcast with Steve Nzi, and now I get to hear about all the monkey tickling I want baby.

So many podcasts out there are all talk and no Congo. That’s why I listen to everything I learned from movies. Greatest Living Actor, Nicholas Cage. Of [00:22:00] course, that’s why I listen to everything I learned from movies. One-liners, plot holes, gratuitous boobies. Fun fact. That’s why I listen to everything I learned from movies.

See if everything I learned from movies is right for you at EILF movies. That’s. Everything I learned from movies on Twitter, Facebook, or Patreon, free on all the major pod catchers.

Crew Chief Eric: And we’re back to quote our friend Steve and Izzy. Those were just the most amazing ads that ever added in the history of adding.

So up next we have three wise vols where we’re gonna do a quick round robin of gift ideas for the Petrolhead in your life. This can go one of two ways are lovely. Panelists are gonna suggest gifts that they would have bought for themselves, gifts that they would buy for their best car bestie, and something you must buy.

Or are traditional for you, for your ride or for your garage?

Executive Producer Tania: Well, mine will be lame, so I can start.

Crew Chief Eric: [00:23:00] Well, with that positive endorsement, let’s go with Tanya.

Crew Chief Brad: Please sell a 72 Corvette.

Executive Producer Tania: Yeah,

Crew Chief Brad: I

Executive Producer Tania: don’t need anything anymore. I’m good.

Max Kaiserman: It does your hair for you. You don’t have to, you never have to get a hair dryer again.

Executive Producer Tania: Exactly. I scratched that off my holiday wishlist this year. But I will need a good brush ’cause it’s gonna be a rat’s nest. Buy for myself. A racing sim rig. Oh, buy for a car bestie. Any of the Formula one Lego sets. All right. And a must buy. Any car themed apparel is a must buy for any car enthusiast.

Check out Blip Shift for custom design t-shirts, or even heel tread for custom livery inspired socks both short and tall.

Max Kaiserman: And on your way there. Don’t forget to check out lunar replicas.com for your official Ford and Shelby Apparel. Shameless. Sorry. Sorry, I had to throw that in.

William Ross: William, how about you?

What have you got for [00:24:00] me? I’m gonna buy, I obviously seem like we’re not really worried about price here. Since our contestant went over there and went with a sim rig. I would get a, a shoe marker helmet, full size, you know, real legit, raised, worn helmet. Signed by him would be. And then for, uh, my garage, I would definitely buy a legit like golf sign or some sort of nice sign or like a old neon one, something along those lines.

They could hang on the wall and the other route I’d go. Then for the one would just be, I mean, a nice remote control. Type, either a Porsche or Ferrari or something along the line, just so someone can play with that. That would be lots of fun. Can race it around the Christmas tree.

Crew Chief Eric: Nice. Brad, what about your gift ideas?

What do you suggest for the car enthusiast that has everything in their life?

Crew Chief Brad: So I’m going to go out of order a little bit here for my bestie, who’s sitting in screen number five here. I’m getting you a book. It is the Automotive Wiring and Electrical System Guide for beginners.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it for an Alpha [00:25:00] 1 56 sports station wagon?

It is

Crew Chief Brad: not. It is not, but it is. It is in large print, and it was printed in September 27th, 2025. Large print. It’ll help you a lot with your nine 14.

Crew Chief Eric: Or somebody else’s GTI

Crew Chief Brad: or somebody else’s GTI for the must buy for anybody really that operates in automobile. I said it before, I’ll say it again. AAA membership I think is very important.

Executive Producer Tania: That’s about as just as exciting as diagnostic tool I was gonna suggest.

Crew Chief Brad: Exactly. Exactly. Now for the real prize for myself, I see every Christmas season these car commercials with the big red bow in the hood. And you know what nothing says. I love you quite like a 9 9 1 Porsche nine 11 GT three Rs. So that’s what I would buy myself,

Crew Chief Eric: max.

You could empathize there, can’t you?

Max Kaiserman: Yeah, that was my gift to myself [00:26:00] recently. So well, nine nine a 9 9 1 4 SII don’t need the GT four rss.

Crew Chief Eric: Nobody needs the gt. Oh, I I definitely want it a

Max Kaiserman: four s with a cob tune. I’m making 450 horsepower. Nobody needs that car either. Exactly. Exactly.

Crew Chief Eric: Max, you’re behind the mic.

What are your gifts suggestions for the 2025 season?

Max Kaiserman: For my car bestie, who happens to be my my wife? We recently upgraded from her 2014 Cross Trek to a 2021 or 22, I forget, uh, Forester. So a Subaru Forester certified pre-owned. It was an excellent bargain and they gave her a really good deal on the, uh, trade-in value on the cross trek.

So that was quite an upgrade. Excellent car despite the CVT. Anyway, the uh, um, so the gift to, uh, to myself. I recently bought a 1961 Corvette, which is the last truly good year of [00:27:00] the, uh, no, no, I’m sorry. 62 is a great year for a C one, but just the perfect styling. It’s, it’s a C two from the back and a C one from all other angles.

It is the perfect Corvette and a gift for the garage or for anybody’s garage. I highly recommend if you wrench or if you do. Work yourself. The Ben Pack. Quick jacks. What an awesome, awesome, awesome addition to a garage. I just got mine the other day and it has instantly changed the way I work in the garage.

So Ben Pack, quick Jacks and I got the new one, the 6,000 tl, the whatever the regular one is, but the 6,000 pound one. Which has some like added safeties and stuff like that. It can do everything in my collection. I mean, all the way up to a a ca. I have a Porsche Cayenne as well. It can pull the cayenne up.

Incredibly well made and I recommend everybody get one. If they can’t put a regular set of lifts in their garage, get a quick jack and they go on sale this time of year too. Actually. There’s lots of sales. I think Costco used to sell them. Discount codes or anything. [00:28:00] Discount code 1, 2, 3. No, I, I don’t know.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s the Facebook marketplace code. Yeah. So Max, while we still got you, do you wanna promote any of the wares you have on lunar replicas?

Max Kaiserman: Absolutely. Yeah. So, uh, I’m wearing, I’m wearing one of my wares right now, two of my wares. If you’re a Shelby fan, if you’re a classic car fan, if you’re a Ford versus Ferrari fan.

We are the original uniform supplier to Shelby and Ford teams in the 1960s, and we’re bringing them back out for the public. So you can get our team shirts from 19 64 65, and we’ll be releasing the 66 team shirts and jackets this winter. You can also get the, the historic 1965. Team jackets and shirts.

That was the team that sent seven cars to Laman in 1965 into the historic Daytona coup, the GT 40, mark two, the Cobras, everything. The Ford teams that year were really amazing and the Shelby team itself really made a name for itself and they wore our uniforms there and you can [00:29:00] get them yourself. Some great pictures of the guys wearing them when it rained terribly at Sebring in 65.

The pits were four feet of water and the, uh, chaparrals were literally like submarines in there. Yet somehow they still won. Who knew? In any case, we make the uniforms. They’re exactly the right thing to wear in your Cobra Mustang GT 40 Daytona coop, and they do keep you warm. The jacket is actually quite warm and it has a hood.

We are coming out with a helmet bag as well, so it’s sort of an overnight bag. We’re looking at expanding our line into driving gloves and some other, so sort of the gentleman racer kind of vibe, but very 1960s, possibly a set of driving shoes in the future. Maybe even an affordable watch for you watch fans out there.

Crew Chief Eric: Now it’s time for my picks, so I generally like to. I give a little bit of myself when I give a gift to someone else, right? So something that when they look at it or they use it, or you know, whatever, it reminds them of me. ’cause you know, hey, that’s important, right? So for [00:30:00] my bestie, then there’s multiples.

But for my bestie, I would get them from the block zone. The 3,886 piece Audi Quatro Group B Rally Car. They can assemble it over those cold winter months in front of the fireplace, and at the end have a one eighth scale model that they put together themselves. That reminds them of me every time they look at it.

I love the stuff that the block zone is putting together. There’s some very, very cool models. This one obviously speaks to me in very profound ways, but check out the block zone.com for some great Christmas. Ideas for the motorist in your life.

Max Kaiserman: It’s only 260 bucks too. Wow. Look at that. Yeah, it’s really cool.

Executive Producer Tania: And Black Friday sales are live, so get it at a discount.

Crew Chief Eric: Fire up the Quattro. All right. For myself, there’s a ton of artists that either demonstrate or put their wares. On social media all the time. We’ve interviewed a bunch of them. Folks like Samantha Zimmerman and Chris Dunlop, and you know, you go on down the line, but there’s a new bunch of [00:31:00] artists out there that are putting out some really epic, very pointed prints and limited numbers that I really, really enjoy.

And the first one that came out, and this comes from ricardo car artwork.com. Was the Alitalia inspired generational list of all the Lancias that wore the Alitalia livery. I think this looks super cool to include the airplane, and then they’ve branched off and they’ve included things like the Audis.

They’ve done Porsches, they have this whole chronology series of limited run prints. They’re signed by the artists and I think they’re just absolutely fabulous. So for me, this is something I wanna put in the hallway. People come over and go, that’s super cool. What is that? And so if you’re into, you know, the group B era, you’re into the group C cars, that kind of thing, that’s your style.

This is where it’s at.

Crew Chief Brad: I just found my new art piece, the Ferrari two 50 GTO.

Max Kaiserman: They’ve got the Quatro version and the CIA martini.

Crew Chief Brad: Those are killer.

Max Kaiserman: Yeah, they’re really [00:32:00] cool.

William Ross: What’s the tariff on that stuff? Changes every day, right?

Crew Chief Eric: Unfortunately. Despite the tariffs, they’re priced pretty reasonably too. If I remember correctly, they’re somewhere around 80 euros, which they are roughly a hundred bucks. That’s not bad. Even if you didn’t buy it for yourself, you bought it for the enthusiast in your life that you know, really likes that generation of car.

These are where it’s at, and these are new as of this year, so super, super cool. And finally, a must buy as an AVID one 64th scale model collector. I present you with Thei designs. Diorama display sets for your one 64th cars. You’ve probably seen these also floating around the internet. They’re these really cool, highly detailed dioramas that are like Porsche dealership.

There’s a seven 11 back behind the ramen shop and you know, all these kinds of things where you can park your themed 1 64 scale models and have a really cool display. They even sell display cases for the dioramas so you can [00:33:00] build it out into a wall and have these really cool scenes. They’re LED backlit, I mean, just.

Absolutely fabulous. Incredibly detailed. Not too, too expensive, but to me, as a collector, these are a must buy. They’re also on sale now. Yeah. Price better at all, man. Those are pretty cool.

Max Kaiserman: 94, 42 down from 1 44 95.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a bargain. So those are my three gifts.

Max Kaiserman: I got my wife a forester, but this is actually cooler.

That’s, oh man, I, I’m amazed. Anything Porsche is less than like 500 bucks. Actually, that’s,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s funny you should say that, max, because what would a drive through holiday special be without some rich people? Thanks. Totally

Max Kaiserman: Unrelated to cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay.

Max Kaiserman: I recently went to DC for a meeting and I had some spare time.

I went to museum called the uh, people’s House, which is about the White House, and it was, uh, open just about a year ago by the White House Historic Commission. It tells a [00:34:00] lot about the White House and stuff like that, but any case, the gift shop there has some really cool little things, and one of them was.

Colognes made by the same companies that made colognes for US Presidents current president excluded, but John F. Kennedy apparently wore Caswell masses’, jockey club cologne, and aftershave. And I gotta tell you, for a guy that doesn’t wear cologne, I got it for the novelty. I, I live in the 1960s basically, so I got it for the novelty.

It is the nicest smelling cologne I’ve ever come across. It’s just unbelievable. Marilyn Monroe liked it. I hear he had a, uh, tennis instructor that was a fan and get it now before

William Ross: the White House is turned into a pink Mar-a-Lago. Yeah, right. Get it, get them now.

Max Kaiserman: No kidding. I mean, I’m really not a Cologne person, but this has been transformative.

I feel it’s vintage, it’s historic. They actually were the same company that provided colognes for George Washington. They’ve been in business. It’s a British company. They’ve been around since Stonehenge or something. Yeah, [00:35:00] the Druid smelled great. Are you

MUSIC: sure about? That

Max Kaiserman: was best. You know, they were working with what they got.

You smelled like a donkey. It was an improvement. Anyway, so Caswell Massey. Jockey Club. Seriously, I was blown away by this, and now I get the appeal of John F. Kennedy. It really makes sense.

Crew Chief Eric: Max, I’m glad you went here because normally under rich people things we would talk about watches and so we’d never really talked about colognes, although we’ve chatted about it on Discord before.

And so you open the door, you open Pandora’s box a little bit. So I wanna mention, as many folks might know, I actually wear Ferrari cologne and they have different versions. They have the carbon, they have the Russell. I actually wear the black ’cause I think it smells the best. They had a jello for a while, but you order it from Ferrari, you can actually get it on Amazon.

You can get a bunch of different places. It’s not that expensive. It makes a great gift. And again, try the sense out. The Black seems to be the most neutral. But it’s kind of funny, the number of car manufacturers that actually have colognes. Cadillac, Jaguar, Ferrari. [00:36:00] There’s Porsche design stuff.

Max Kaiserman: Yeah, the Pure, I think it is.

Yeah, I think they have them in the stores and stuff. Or if you go to the Porsche, boutiques in

Crew Chief Eric: malls and things. But more importantly, tying all this back to cars and racing. This summer when we were at Lamont’s Classic, William and I actually got the sample. The red, the white and blue colognes, the official 24 hour of Lama colognes that you can buy from the boutique.

You can also buy online@boutique.lama.org.

Max Kaiserman: Well, it’s not red, white, and blue. It’d be blue, white, and

Crew Chief Eric: red. Yes, yes, that’s true. Blue, white, and red. You’re right. My point is though, another inexpensive gift that says, Hey, I understand you as a car enthusiast. Here’s something you may or may not have. You pick up the bottle and go, Hey, that reminds me of the person that gave it to me.

Max Kaiserman: Does it smell like cigarettes, coffee and gasoline? That’s

Crew Chief Eric: red, white cigarettes, coffee and urine and baguettes. I mean, how did you guess Check out all the car inspired colognes that are out there, especially if you’re watch shopping or trying to put together a package for the car enthusiast in your life.

Max Kaiserman: One more honorable mention along with that [00:37:00] Omega. Has the Omega Aqua Terra cologne, which is phenomenal. It is the only other cologne that I have ever liked personally. I haven’t tried the Porsche or the Ferrari colognes yet. But the uh, omega aqua is really lovely and it’s been the same. They don’t have five or six of them, they just have one, and it’s sold in boutiques alongside watches.

William Ross: Well, speaking of the watches. Aaron, Shelby showed us his at lama. Is it Fossil bva? Yeah.

Max Kaiserman: Yeah, it was bva. I, I’m not sure about Fossil. Bva and Breitling were the two that had them for a little bit.

William Ross: Great line, great price. Yeah. They came out with some awesome watches that are, uh, Shelby themed.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, William, as we wrap out this rich people thing, segment, do you wanna talk about the new Ferrari two 50 GTO book that came out?

William Ross: This gentleman, this is his first shot at doing this, but he delves into. Every single chassis number of the two 50 GTOs and gets into their history. You wanna talk about thorough. If you’re a big fan of the Ferrari two 50 GTO, I mean, this is an outstanding book to get. It’s a limited [00:38:00] edition. He’s only doing a few hundred of them.

It gets into. Minute details, great stories about each specific chassis. It’s a great coffee table book if you wanna have something that’s a good, great conversation piece. Uh, and there’s some really cool stories about it in there as well. And he said it is on our website. I know he was taking deposits for it.

I’m not sure where it’s that. I haven’t checked on that lately. I know I put a deposit down

Crew Chief Eric: and the name of the book is the Ferrari two 50 GTO Spotting Guide. And it even has sections in the book where you can write when you’ve. Seen A GTO like at Pebble Beach Notes or at another car show. So you can annotate the times you’ve seen it and it’s almost like the Auto Bond Society birdwatching type of book, but for cars.

Yeah, it’s really interesting.

William Ross: You know, I like what he did with it, like doing that. I guess it’s something where you look at it once and you set it down and it starts collecting dust. It’s something you can always go back to and look at it like to your point is make notes in there about where you see and everything like that.

So I don’t wanna say interactive to an extent.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah, it’s a

William Ross: great book. The guy’s a super nice guy too. I

Crew Chief Eric: talk

William Ross: to him.

Crew Chief Eric: I’ll add to that as we wrap this out. And these are Porsche priced. If you haven’t seen [00:39:00] them, look up the find mugs. They are replicas of the air cooled nine 11 cylinders, or what they call the jugs, and they’re made into coffee mugs.

They look really cool. They’re made out of. God knows what am

Max Kaiserman: and what happens when you put it in the microwave. Bad things happen. When you put it

Crew Chief Eric: in. The microwave takes off. It’ll f on your Ken do. Yeah, so probably magnesium, like the real things, but they are really, really slick. So check out, fend for the Unmistakably Iconic nine 11 inspired coffee mugs.

William Ross: Or if you want. We’ll custom make hoodies for you with the MPN logo on ’em, on the sleeves, 65 on the back, everything like that. So if you want something really unique, let us know. We’ll get ’em custom made for you.

Crew Chief Eric: Three easy payments of

William Ross: X

ECM PROMO: 85

William Ross: for

ECM PROMO: 24

Crew Chief Eric: months. Put that on layaway.

ECM PROMO: For everything from Ferrari and Porsche, Lamborghini and Konig seg.

Visit exotic car marketplace.com if you’re into anything with wheels and a motor. Log onto the Motoring Podcast [00:40:00] network. And check out our family of podcasts@motoringpodcast.net. This is the place to find your favorite new show. Next up a shout out to David Beatie and his team at Slot Mods who custom build some of the coolest slot car tracks in the world@slotmods.com.

Let your imagination run wild. And finally, grand touring motorsports covering all aspects of auto racing and motorsports history. Check out their ine@gtmotorsports.org. All the links for our sponsors are in the description.

Crew Chief Eric: And much like the classic 1970s National Lampoons movie, what would a Christmas holiday be without a Griswold Family Road trip?

Max Kaiserman: This part of the program I kind of wanted to talk about one of the easy. Car related vacations you can take, and that is [00:41:00] finding the roads near you that are the coolest to drive on. Whether it’s a scenic route, a route that takes you to the most impressive diners or drive-ins, or dives or switchbacks that will make your car spin on a dime.

Where would you travel stateside Europe. Where would you like the best roads to travel to if you’re traveling even on a budget,

Crew Chief Eric: it’s not the road from Paris to Lamont, right? Will you? God no. That’s going. You just drive to, from Indiana,

William Ross: get the same thing. Just close your eyes and say I’m in France. You know what?

I wanna go check it out. I had heard about it before, but then kind of escaped my mind and maybe one of you guys, maybe a driven, not max, my Brad, maybe you have, but have you ever heard or driven on the triple nickel down here in southern Ohio?

Max Kaiserman: Tencent. Shy of a quarter.

William Ross: Yeah. Where is that? No, look it up.

It’s like a 60 mile stretch, Southeastern Ohio, just southeast of Columbus, going down to Hocking Hills and that stuff over down to about Athens areas. My understanding, it’s supposed to be incredible in [00:42:00] Ohio, almost like a tail of the dragon type situa. I mean, not that tight and twisty, but just glass, smooth roads, everything like that.

Yeah, so I just came across this the other day, the triple nickel they call it.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m gonna ask again. In Ohio?

William Ross: Yeah, in Ohio. I mean, I was shocked too. Now, many, many moons ago, I was driving to this little rink town in Kentucky that was right across the river from Ohio Covington. And I had to get off 71 and I was going down these roads and I literally, I stopped at this intersection.

’cause I was out in the middle of, this does not seem right, ’cause all of a sudden the road is telling me to go down. Was like fresh asphalt. So I started driving it and it was gorgeous. It went along a river, a stream, and it was just glass smoothly. It just paved, it, hilly, everything like that. Middle of nowhere.

And then all of a sudden you pop out onto the one highway that goes along the Ohio River. ’cause then other side’s, Kentucky. I’m just like outta nowhere. Look up the triple nickel. ’cause we’re gonna have to maybe do that one day. ’cause it, it looks awesome

Crew Chief Eric: again. I’m gonna ask Ohio,

William Ross: Zanesville, Ohio, apparently due east of Columbus.

She got it. It looks like it’s Route [00:43:00] 7 63 in southern Ohio. Here’s a fun thing though. If you wanna deviate off it, you could hit suck, run road just for shits and giggles. I think it’s it’s West Fork Road you hit and then it dumps you into 7 63, which takes you straight down, basically right to dead ends into the Ohio River.

Right across is from Maysville, Kentucky. Which is a really cool little town to Max’s point, you know, there’s so many, especially the Appalachia area and everything like that. Southern Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky, and stuff like that. I mean, there are so many cool little towns. They have all the historical things, everything.

It’s, it’s a lot of fun. They’re really cool things to go do. Gainesville’s right off 70, so if you take 70 over, you pass through that part. Road Track does a lot of stuff on it. Bringing our cars down there, especially when they’re up in Detroit.

Max Kaiserman: The one that I want to talk about, especially now that my 9 9 1 has its winter tires on because below 50 degrees, summer tires on that thing are a little spicy.

Pennsylvania. Route 32 takes you through Bucks County, Pennsylvania, through [00:44:00] the town of New Hope. It goes along the Delaware River and in fall time it’s absolutely gorgeous. So in the wintertime it just looks like. Marshmallow town. I mean, it is, it’s one of the nicest drives. It is a Pennsylvania roots, so they do clear it regularly if it snows.

Executive Producer Tania: Wait a second. You said it looks like a field of marshmallows. This is in Pennsylvania. You didn’t mean a pumpkin patch. Orange cones everywhere. It’s

Max Kaiserman: okay. I assume this episode’s coming out in December, so it might have snowed once by then.

Executive Producer Tania: He, he missed a construction joke. Yeah. Yeah.

Max Kaiserman: Oh, oh, yeah. Well, you know, when there’s snow on the ground, you can’t tell where the potholes are.

It makes it more interesting

Crew Chief Eric: trying to say something about Pennsylvania roads.

Max Kaiserman: You know, we have a thing about Pennsylvania roads. If you’re going straight down the road, you get pulled over for drunk driving.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s awesome.

Max Kaiserman: Philadelphia’s pothole, city man. But it’s one of the nicest drives and it’s just 20, 30 minutes outside downtown Philadelphia. So that’s something that you [00:45:00] can find. There’s actually a number of websites and stuff that you can look up, you know, best drive in my town or in the state that you live in.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of organized drives. William, you joined up with Mike from ESC Carbon Wheels and you did one of the Tail of the Dragon runs with them, right? One of the Porsche runs or something like that. I

William Ross: went there and met up with them when they were doing it. I took my X five and I whipped that thing around on the tail of the dragon.

You know, Josh, who puts those together, does an awesome job.

Crew Chief Eric: And that’s Smokey Mountain Drives, if I remember correctly. That’s the parent organization. There you go. Of all those different organized rides that they do.

William Ross: And he owns actually, um, it was a building, but he’s got a little restaurant and everything there too.

Like the one end of it. It’s a meeting point. And I said he know he’s doing a heck of a job organizing driving this. So, I mean, it’s a great little, uh, setup he’s got now. I know me. I mean, you’ve had many conversations about paying for going on a public road and everything like that, but if you’ve never been to Tail of Dragon, it’s kind of like one of those must see things.

Hey, if you’re a car person, you gotta go drive it. It’s just a lot of fun. But giving someone $300, it’s a public road. Just go whenever you want and [00:46:00] drive it. I dunno, I guess it’s a camaraderie group and they’re getting, you know, two, 300 people to go on this. So, I mean, they got a couple hundred cars and he’s not just doing Porsche, he does Corvette, he does air cooled only, stuff like that.

So, I mean, he, he’s really got something there in regards to. That crowd and just getting together and there’s a resort, you know, they got cabins, everything right, but they’re really nice. Like basically little houses got a main area of where the big gathering, everything like that. It’s a lot of fun. I mean, it’s really cool and not only just being part of that group, but all the other people you’re gonna meet there.

There’s just tons and tons of people that go there. Now you’re gonna have your morons and everything like that too. There are just hundreds and hundreds of youngsters running around on those little a d CCC or whatever the heck you call ’em, one twenty five CCC with the small wheels, whatever, you know, whatever you wanna call ’em, little monkey bikes, whatever, just whipping all over the place on that.

But I will say they do look out for everyone because they do that universal thing. If there’s a cop ahead, they tap their head. So if you’re going the opposite way, you’ll kind of give you a heads up. That’s really cool. That’s definitely a [00:47:00] must do for someone. That’s the road that’s known now here, say in the eastern United States to hit and you got angels Crest on the West coast.

It’s really cool too. If you never did that, definitely go do that as well. And again, public road, don’t have to pay anyone to go

Crew Chief Eric: on it. To close out that thought. If you’re thinking about this as a holiday gift for the car enthusiast in your life, check out the different car clubs. Because they oftentimes organize cover bridges, tours, or these like back road, you know, road rallies and stuff where they do these destination, what they call drive and dines and things like that.

And you don’t have to look too much further than clubs like SCCA. The Porsche Club, the Audi Club, BMW, doesn’t matter really what kind of car you drive, they’ll welcome anybody. But they do organize these types of trips and they’re low cost, low risk, high fun type of gift that you can give. And you can do it together.

You can do it as a family. Max, you’re talking, you have a cayenne, why not pack the whole family in and go for a road trip?

Max Kaiserman: Yeah. The best also is you’ll find some really interesting [00:48:00] stores and shops and restaurants. Along those roots, some of them that have been there for a long time. I, I’m a huge fan of the Hole in the Wall diner.

And, uh, you know, my family always made a point that we’d never go to like a Red Robin or something. If you’re in somebody’s town, try the local flavor. I gotta tell you, now that I’ve been, I’ve been driving my 61 Corvette quite a bit. I got it about a month ago, and I drive it a lot until it started getting cold out.

Park that in front of a restaurant and take a picture and put it up on Instagram or something like that. It’s actually, it’s a good hit for that restaurant. You’d be amazed what is alongside these historic roads, not on the highway. You know, like these are little state route and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: Your question’s kind of tough.

Because immediately you get all the top gear, roads that come to mind, Stelvio Pass, and to your point, tail of the Dragon, I mean, you know all these famous roads, but it’s those roads in your area that maybe you don’t think about so much and maybe some of them you just take for granted. You’re like, Hey, it’s a bunch of, you know, hilly roads.

Max Kaiserman: Lincoln Drive in Philadelphia and Owens around is awesome. [00:49:00] I’d never recommend it. Obviously if it’s busy, it’s stop and go and there’s a lot of blind turns. But I did it the other night at about 11, and my license plate number is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Pennsylvania State Police in the 9 9 1 at like 11 or one o’clock in the morning or so.

Lincoln Drive is incredible. There’s also, there’s like West River Drive and stuff, which is beautiful and it’s also, they just reopened West River Drive, which bypasses I 76. The Schuell Expressway down the Schull River, and it’s one of the nicest, you know, and you come right up at the art museum. So like, there are these great little moments that you can have, even if you live in a city.

I’m just, I’m just talking about Philadelphia, New York. Uh, I almost got into a fender bender on the Bronx Expressway on Wednesday. But like, there’s little places that you can find anywhere if you wanna take your car out, whether it’s fast or not. I mean, it really, it can be a scenic drive. There’s lovely places around dc.

There’s places obviously in LA and stuff. You wanna have a weekend in Las Vegas. That ride from LA to Vegas is a lot of [00:50:00] fun. It’s a lot of straightaways through the desert, through Barstow and stuff.

Executive Producer Tania: And if you are in that DC metro area, to your point of a scenic ride, the Blue Ridge or Skyline Drive, that whole area is only a couple hours outside the city.

And. Obviously in the fall time it’s a very popular destination to see all the colors changing and the trees. It’s not going to be a high speed road trip because it’s definitely governed, ’cause you’re entering Shenandoah National Park. But it is definitely worth it if you are in the area and you’ve never been before.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, and Tanya brings up a good point. I was thinking, how do I not talk about something like Blue Ridge Parkway or Skyline Drive? Even out west things like, you know, the Canyon Roads, Mulholland and Angela’s crests and all those types of places like that. And the one that actually popped into my head, which is a really great driving road, which you’re not supposed to do with a truck and trailer, a big one.

But when you’re hauling a race car, that’s a different story. It’s actually the Taconic State Parkway on the way to Limerock the whole way up [00:51:00] through New York to Connecticut to go to Limerock. That is a heck of a drive. It’s beautiful old New England, tight, windy roads all the way up. From the city to the racetrack.

It’s kinda like a double destination. You wanna drive the road to Limerock so you can get to Limerock and drive Limerock. You might as well double down. So to me, that’s the kind of great escape road that I would take, especially as an automotive enthusiast. I think that would be a lot of fun.

Max Kaiserman: I got one route, nine N.

From Lake George to Ty Kon Rogan, New York. It’s spring, summer, fall. It’s amazing. In the wintertime, you think you’re gonna die, but the uh, route nine end alongside on the west side of Lake George going north or coming back down is absolutely incredible and so much so that they have built. Four or five lookout points where you just have to pull over and take a picture.

That’s a lot of fun. I did that in the Cayenne actually recently. We, we were at a show up in Tay Kon rug in New York and stayed in Lake George and went up and down every day for this thing, and that was a lot of fun too.

Crew Chief Eric: Good [00:52:00] Call Max. I like that. That’s a good holiday gift.

Max Kaiserman: Quick, easy vacation you can take with your car and with special someone or by yourself.

It’s something cost nothing but a tank of gas.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Brad, I guess it’s time we bring this holiday episode to a close.

Crew Chief Brad: Did you know that you can buy track days or gift cards to track events for the petrolhead in your life? Organizations like Hooked on Driving Chen Track Days, David Murray Track Days, and many others offer you the ability to buy track time for others.

Heck out their websites for more information.

JUST TRACK IT PROMO: Want to get on track next season, then you need to just track it. Save 10% off any 2026 event registration with the coupon code BF 2026. To use the coupon register for the event on club registration.net and in the payment screen, use BF 2 0 2 6. In the promo code field, coupon code will be active from November 27th to 30.

The 2026 [00:53:00] calendar of events for Just Track. It is already available with exciting venues like Barber Motorsports Park Road, Atlanta Robing Road, Atlanta Motorsports Park, and Carolina Motorsports Park all on the roster for next season. In addition, just track it is expanding its ladies only program, which kicked off in 2025, featuring half day events at locations like Barbara and Road Atlanta with three on tracks.

Sessions that include an in-car instructor classroom training on the fundamentals of high performance driving and a rental helmet all at a discounted price. And the best part, the run group is Ladies only for more information on Just track it and their HPDE programs look no further than just track it.net and be sure use that BF 2026 coupon code at checkout.

Crew Chief Brad: As a reminder, you can find tons of upcoming local shows and events for the holiday season at the Ultimate reference for Car Enthusiast. Collector car guy.net

Don Weberg: oh oh oh. Merry Christmas since 2007, garage Style Magazine [00:54:00] has been the definitive source for car collectors continually delivering information about Automobilia Petroliana events and more.

To learn more about the annual publication and its new website, be sure to follow them on social media at Garage Style Magazine or log onto www.garagestylemagazine.com because after all, what doesn’t belong in your garage? Merry Christmas, a filthy animal and a happy new year.

Executive Producer Tania: It is been an amazing year for our team, and to date, we’ve already beat our goal for the year, producing over 100 episodes in a season on the Motoring Podcast Network, which includes shows like Break Fix, the Motoring historian, the Ferrari Marketplace, evening with a legend.

What should I buy? Screen to speed, and of course, the drive-through don’t go away. There’s still tons more to come as season six concludes in February, and then we’ll head into all sorts of new and exciting [00:55:00] programming for the 2026 season. So stay tuned to Break Fix Podcast. And our digital magazine@gtmotorsports.org for more details.

Crew Chief Eric: Folks, you’ve probably heard Brad say many times that you can sign up for Patreon for free, and there are lots of great extras and bonuses for you to enjoy, but there are folks in our community, friends of the show and sponsors that have gone the extra mile and donated to help support the Motoring Podcast network and shows like Break Fix and the drive through.

And we wanna acknowledge those folks personally.

Crew Chief Brad: Edward Hughes ii.

Crew Chief Eric: Lori Preston Lerner. Jim Manley, Dougie Kite Bill

Crew Chief Brad: Jordan DeCosta.

Crew Chief Eric: Mark Steigerwald. Mike Smith,

Crew Chief Brad: David Beatie.

Crew Chief Eric: Ella. BL

Crew Chief Brad: Meya Chu,

Crew Chief Eric: Deanne Hops, Miami. Miami 47.

Crew Chief Brad: Austin Belzer,

Crew Chief Eric: Ruben Sanchez, W2 one 15 Motorsport,

Crew Chief Brad: Marissa Cannon,

Crew Chief Eric: Andrew, Maureen Romano Conte,

Crew Chief Brad: Mike Rigo,

Crew Chief Eric: max [00:56:00] Derby, Ashley Macelli, Robert Barr, mark Shank, Mark Hewitt, Bob Gillespie, Janet and Brian Wartell.

Brett Derby, Andrew Re, Brian Young. David Scherf, run Kei, BJ Harrington, Sean Roberts. Story

Crew Chief Brad: Brill,

Crew Chief Eric: Rebecca Griffith, Ryan Compton,

Crew Chief Brad: Ron Richter, Dr. Gordon Bell, Ron Shery, and Mike and Chrissy Crutchfield.

Crew Chief Eric: Additionally, we’d like to thank all of our sponsors who helped us kick butt this season.

Crew Chief Brad: William Ross in the Exotic Car Marketplace.

Executive Producer Tania: Don Weiberg from Garage Style Magazine.

Crew Chief Brad: The

Crew Chief Eric: motoring historian John Summers. David Middleton from MIE Racing

Executive Producer Tania: Steffi Bow and the team at In it eSports.

Crew Chief Eric: Allison Kreitzer from the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, David Lowe and the A-C-O-U-S-A Team.

Executive Producer Tania: Rob parr@collectorcarguide.net,

Crew Chief Eric: the International Motor Racing Research Center in

Crew Chief Brad: Project Motoring

Executive Producer Tania: and with special thanks to many, many others.

Crew Chief Brad: A thank you to our co-host and [00:57:00] executive producer Tanya, and all the fans, friends and family who support GTM. Without you, none of this would be possible. Happy holidays everyone. Ho, ho, ho.

Woo dishes go. If I sell that shit, maybe, maybe I should turn that shit off then. Alright, real quick, we’ll make some be

Crew Chief Eric: technical difficulties. This is where the color pattern and the Indian head comes in. Why did

Crew Chief Brad: I even fucking turn that on?

Executive Producer Tania: This is a test of the emergency broadcast system. Oh my goodness.

In the event of a real emergency, you

Crew Chief Brad: should

Executive Producer Tania: have used the actual microphone.

Crew Chief Brad: Well, I’m not home. Yeah, I know you’re not home.

Executive Producer Tania: He’s using a 1970s microphone. So tracks.

Max Kaiserman: Hey guys, on that note, I gotta go. Alright Max, we’ll see you. Thank you. Thanks for you. Alright,

William Ross: cool. Yeah, that should be a good one too.[00:58:00]

Executive Producer Tania: The drive-through is our monthly news episode and is sponsored in part by organizations like Collector Car guide.net Project, motoring Garage Style Magazine, the Exotic Car Marketplace, and many others. If you’re interested in becoming a sponsor of the drive through, look no further than www.motoringpodcast.net.

Click about and then advertising. Thank you again to everyone that supports the Motoring Podcast Network, grand Touring Motorsports, our podcast, break Fix, and all the other services we provide.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Holiday Shopping Guide for Petrolheads
01:15 The Automotive Dating Game Begins
02:05 Question Round: Getting to Know the Cars
12:06 Final Questions and Decision Time
13:10 Revealing the Cars!
22:31 Three Wise Volks: Gift Ideas for Petrolheads
28:06 Luna Replicas: Classic Car Apparel
29:45 More Gift Ideas for Car Enthusiasts
33:33 Rich People Thangs: Colognes and Watches
40:51 Car-Related Vacations and Scenic Drives
52:11 Track Days and Car Clubs
54:33 Thank You and Acknowledgements

Ghosts of Holiday Specials Past

Behind the Scenes

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Guest Co-Host: Max Kaiserman

In case you missed it... be sure to check out the Break/Fix episode with our co-host.

Reading List

Don't miss out on great book like this one, or other titles we've read and covered as part of the GTM Bookclub on Break/Fix Podcast.

My Travels On Racer Road: Can-Am and Formula 1 in their golden age

DeLorean: The Rise, Fall and Second Acts of the DeLorean Motor Company

Driving to the Future: Living life following Formula One racing

Geared for Life: Making the Shift Into Your Full Potential

Fenders, Fins & Friends: Confessions of a Car Guy

Racing While Black: How an African-American Stock Car Team Made Its Mark on NASCAR

The Last Lap: The Mysterious Demise of Pete Kreis at The Indianapolis 500

Performance Thinking: Mental Skills for the Competitive World...and for Life!

The Other Side of the Fence: Six Decades of Motorsport Photography

Little Anton: A Historical Novel Complete Series

Lone Rider: The First British Woman to Motorcycle Around the World

Colin Chapman: The Man and His Cars: The Authorized Biography by Gerard Crombac

Paved Paradise: How Parking Explains the World

Shipwrecked and Rescued: Cars and Crew: The

Gran Touring Motorsports's favorite books »

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Patrick Long: 16 Races, 2 Wins, and a Lifetime at Le Mans

Gran T

-

November 20, 2025

0

Patrick Long: 16 Races, 2 Wins, and a Lifetime at Le Mans

In the pantheon of American endurance racing, few names resonate like Patrick Long. As Porsche’s only American factory driver for many years, Long carved out a legacy at the 24 Hours of Le Mans that spans 16 consecutive starts, two class victories, and countless memories that blend grit, grace, and gratitude.

In this edition of “Evening With a Legend,” hosted by our very own Crew Chief Eric, Long reflects on his journey from a young karting hopeful in Southern California to a seasoned veteran on the podium at La Sarthe.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Long’s Le Mans story began long before his first race in 2004. In 1999, as a teenager, he was selected by Elf Fuels to attend La Filière, the French racing academy based at Le Mans. Living full-time in the Technoparc, he raced in the French Formula Campus series and soaked in the atmosphere of the 24-hour race as a fan. That year, he witnessed the infamous Mercedes flips – Mark Webber going airborne – and felt the visceral pull of endurance racing.

Fast forward to 2004. Long made his Le Mans debut in a Porsche GT entry alongside factory veterans Sascha Maassen and Jörg Bergmeister. With Roland Kussmaul engineering the car, the pressure was immense – but so was the payoff. They won their class. “It was surreal,” Long said. “I was the rookie, the liability. And yet, we ended up on the top step of the podium.”

That first win came in an era when endurance racing still demanded mechanical sympathy. “We had a throttle cable issue, maybe even a clutch issue. You’d get pushed into the garage, lose laps, and still come back to win. That was endurance racing at its core.”

Synopsis

Sixteen starts. Two wins. Countless stories. Patrick Long’s Le Mans career is a testament to endurance—not just in racing, but in spirit. “I was a Porsche fan long before I ever drove one,” he said. “And I still am.”

What do you remember most vividly about your very first time racing at Le Mans, and how did it differ from what you expected?
What is it about the Circuit de la Sarthe that makes it so special and demanding compared to other tracks you’ve raced on?
How did it feel to achieve your first class victory at Le Mans (in 2004), and what do you think were the key factors that led to that success?
Of your 16 attempts, which races/years stick out as the most memorable to you, and why?
Can you describe the unique relationship between a driver and the Porsche brand during such a demanding event?
Was there ever a thought/chance/plan to run in any of the Porsche prototype cars like the 919? Thoughts on the 963?
Over the years you raced at Le Mans, how did the atmosphere, competition, or technology evolve in ways that stood out to you?
Now that you’ve stepped back from full-time racing, how do you reflect on your Le Mans legacy, and what does that race still mean to you today?
Do you see yourself participating in future LeMans Classic events? If so, is there a car you’d like to race, from any era of endurance racing?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Evening With a Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to legends of the famous 24 hours of Le Mans giving us an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you. By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance to become part of the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.

Crew Chief Eric: Tonight we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you sharing in the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing. And as your host, I’m delighted to introduce Patrick Long, widely recognized as one of America’s most successful endurance racers with an impressive legacy at the 24 hours of Le Mans.

As Porsche’s only American factory driver for many years. Patrick competed in 15 attempts from 2004 [00:01:00] to 2019 at the helm of a Porsche GT class entry. He achieved class victories in 2004 and 2007, showcasing his skill, consistency, and deep understanding of endurance racing. Known for his smooth driving style and strategic mindset.

Patrick became a staple presence on the Cir d Losar, representing Porsche with distinction and helping solidify the brand’s dominance in GT racing. His Le Mans’s career reflects not only personal success, but also his vital role in strengthening the presence of American drivers on the world of endurance racing.

And with that, I’m your host crew chief Eric from the Motoring Podcast Network, welcoming everyone to this evening with a legend. So Patrick, welcome to the show.

Patrick Long: Thanks, Eric. It’s a pleasure to be here. And yeah, when I had that email and ACO comes up, that’s an acronym that’s very, very close to my heart and special in my life.

So it’s great to be here and to reminisce a little bit about such a special race and a special racetrack.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we got a lot of ground to cover as racers. We like to talk stats a little bit here, so let me kind of [00:02:00] put things in context. We’ve had the privilege of interviewing all sorts of legends on this show.

So let’s go from the bottom to the top. Andretti and Jordan Taylor. Nine attempts at Le Mans Hurley Haywood, 13 attempts at Le Mans. You’re clenching the second spot right now with 15 attempts right behind David Hobbes with 20. That’s a lot of things to cover in a single episode. So how about we just focus on the big ones, and everybody likes to know about the first, right?

Because your first impressions or lasting impressions, so talk about. What you remember about your first time at Le Mans?

Patrick Long: Yeah, that’s a great sidebar for me to just quickly mention that. In 1999, I was a young Go Karter from Southern California and Elf Fuels had stood up as the supplier of our carting series that ran nationally and said we were gonna send a few Americans to La Fre, which was an academy from the French Federation of School, and be based and live at Le Mansr in the techno park and.

Compete in the French Championship [00:03:00] one Make Formula campus. What that all meant was that I was vying for a seat to live full-time in Le Mans and I actually did that in 1999 as a a young aspiring professional. So fast forward only four short years, and that was my first time showing up to compete at Le Mans.

And I never would’ve envisioned that I would get maybe three attempts at Le Mansll, let alone 15 in a row. An amazing, amazing memory. But yeah, the first year that I showed up, a daunting racetrack, a big learning curve, and big shoes to fill because the good and bad news was I was in one of the two lead Porsche entries, Roland Kuzma, the legend and icon of so many decades at Le Mans was my engineer and my teammates were Porsche’s veterans.

Factory driver, Sasha Mossett and Urick Berg Meister. So very, very overwhelming from beginning to end and it just made it that much more incredible that that year we ended up on the top step of the podium in the single GT category at that time.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ve heard different stories in the past. You know, people [00:04:00] talk about how they learned Le Mans.

First practice lap out. They’ve never seen the track before. Others have said it was their first European circuit that they ever raced on. Was that the same thing for you as well? Had you raced other places in Europe and when did you learn that first lap at Le Mans?

Patrick Long: My time in Europe started in 1996, racing carts in the summer, in the world championships, and then it became a full-time affair in 1998 with a year of carting, and then it moved to Le Mansr for 1999.

And from there I sort of traversed through Europe looking for opportunities to cut my teeth and race against the best from all over the world. And you know, in that era, I think British Formula Three was really the pinnacle of single seater categories and drivers looking to make it to Champ car, to Formula One two.

Le Mansr and I never had the funding to get. Quite two British F three. I remember testing just before I had a phone call from Red Bull to go through the Driver’s Academy for the inaugural Formula One driver search to get an American Formula One. And although that [00:05:00] story I’ve told many times didn’t end up as the ideal or the end goal for me, that is where I met.

Porsche and Parley a, an amazing career of 18 years with them. And today, you know, some four years after my full-time retirement from racing, I still work for Porsche as a brand ambassador and as a consultant in Motorsport. So no, very much not my first time racing in Europe, not my first time at Le Mansr, and not my first time attending the race.

I had been to the race three times prior as sort of a fan and just loved the experience of it. My first year was 1999 when I was living there. Know that was a wild race, and specifically with the Mercedes episodes and Peter Rech and Mark Weber going upside down as so many remember and probably attended.

Scary stuff, put it all into perspective. But the way I really sized up my first 24 hour experience, that being the 1999 Le Mans was. I spent 12 or 14 hours at the racetrack, went home, had a barbecue, had a full night of rest, woke up, had breakfast, [00:06:00] came back, and those same crazy drivers were still going around the racetrack.

And it really put it into perspective just how grueling it is for man and machine and what a fast and dangerous racetrack that was. So safe to say I was hooked. Just have loved it every single time I’ve been back since.

Crew Chief Eric: So you’ve mentioned throughout this, you know, the special qualities of Le Mans, how big it is, how daunting it is, the grueling nature of the race itself.

How do you compare that to some of the races in the United States or other ones? ’cause it isn’t the longest track compared to, let’s say the Berg Ring 24 or some of the others that are out there. So when you compare and contrast some of the other places you’ve been, is Le Mans still the most special? Is it, or is it the keystone in all the tracks on your list?

Patrick Long: I think it is the most special as a racetrack and how it flows, how quick it is, but also just how much rhythm there is and how much different challenges and layouts of corners there are. And it’s evolved in the time that I’ve been there. Certainly changed in some ways, but you know, the Porsche curves remain some of the most.[00:07:00]

Fast blind and challenging set of corners in all of Motorsport. I think I would liken the Porsche curves to a street track only. You’re going about three times the speed that you would be going at Long Beach or Detroit or Monaco. So just a wild, wild place. To answer your question a little more specifically, I would say in 2004, when I first drove some laps there in the pretest, it was the most daunting.

It was the fastest it, it did seem like the highest risk track I had ever competed at or driven around, but certainly nerve gring and Bathurst for that challenged to me and my driving and my nerve as much as Le Mans. I think Le Mans became a second home to me. I felt like a specialist there because I was. So fortunate to get to compete so many years in succession that I just was always first one out of the plane and on the way to the track because I couldn’t wait to get out there for qualifying.

I couldn’t wait to start the race and battle in that first hour stint because the whole world’s eyes [00:08:00] were on the television or there live watching that race. So just an amazing energy that I didn’t feel at any other sports car race I ever competed in.

Crew Chief Eric: And it’s funny you say that because a lot of folks try to compare.

Let’s say the Daytona 24 to Le Mans, and it’s like apples and chainsaws, right? You can’t really make that comparison. But I will say there’s other wonderful tracks in the United States with natural elevation like Laguna Seka, Watkins Glen, and you pick it, you name it. But after my first visit to Le Mans, I suddenly understood why Petite Le Mans exists at Rhode Atlanta because it is sort of a miniature version of Le Mans.

So do you get that same perspective having raced on all these tracks, even across the United States?

Patrick Long: Yeah, I would say so. The elevation of a lot of domestic racetracks is pretty unique. I mean, you get a lot more elevation at road Atlanta than you do at Le Mans, at least from a driver’s perspective. Maybe not from a topography or engineering side, but I would be willing to venture out and say that, you know, going to most port or anywhere in North America Road America, they have a lot [00:09:00] more elevation and Le Mans feels flatter as a driver.

You know, the Moozon straightaway is so much scale and such high speeds coming from Arage all the way back to Indianapolis feels dauntingly narrow, especially when you’re trying to coexist with three different classes and three wide moments. So Le Manss still challenges you to be so precise and to never let your guard down because the average speed is just.

So high and the stakes are so high, but the prestige, and again, I’ll keep referencing it, the energy of the fanfare and everything that comes along with the race in its spectacle is still untouchable, in my opinion.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s go back to your first Le Mans 2004, and you said yourself, you’d already been there a couple years, so now you’re resident of Le Mans, or you know that’s your second home.

What was it like at the end of that race? Getting up on the podium after all that time and all the work and the effort and working with Porsche? You look down at the crowd and you go, I’m on the podium at Le Mans, did you feel like you had just landed on the moon or what was [00:10:00] that like for you?

Patrick Long: It was surreal.

I certainly didn’t expect it. I really couldn’t believe that we had won our class in a pretty. Tough fight with another Porsche and it went down to the wire. But I remember, well that this was a cusp of GT racing where when we qualified, we were still running a synchro H pattern gearbox. And you know, this car still had three pedals and was very bare and inside very few driver aids and much different than where I ended up at the end of my career competing at Le Mansll.

So you really did have to take care of the car and you did have to battle back. From adversity and spend time in the garage and come back from many laps down as someone else hit some troubles and had a mechanical issue or an off on the track. And those are my fondest memories. That was endurance racing at the core, and I felt like I caught the tail end of that traditional man and machine, where later down the road.

Everything, the tires, the brakes, the gearboxes, the [00:11:00] engines, the competition, everything was so robust that it absolutely was just pure qualifying laps from beginning to end. You hit every curb in sight. Every single shift was a red line. So I really love and respect and remember fondly that. Age old endurance race where you still had to take care of the car, take care of your competitors and your teammates, and we had a throttle cable issue, if I remember correctly, and maybe even a clutch issue, and seeing the team go to work being pushed backwards into the garage and getting out of the car actually, well, you know, under green flag conditions and still being able to win it lent itself to huge emotion because you, you had a little bit of surprise that you actually still won the race with everything that you saw and went through in that 24 hours prior.

Crew Chief Eric: I wanna dovetail off of something you said there. You mentioned that you were at the tail end of that analog generation of cars, repeals, H pattern, all that. So when you stood up on the podium and you look back at all the drivers and legends that came before you, was there somebody who had [00:12:00] inspired you, somebody you thought of as you’re standing there, you’re like, I’m standing in the same place that so and so.

Who drove a nine 11 or drove a Ferrari or something like that. Who was your inspiration?

Patrick Long: Yeah, there were so many people that helped me and inspired me who had competed at Le Mansll. Danny Sullivan was a huge, huge help in my career. He’s still such a close friend and a mentor, and obviously he had great success at the racetrack with Porsche.

I also thought about Andre Pesca. You know, he would’ve been there that day, but Andre was really the. Mentor of the Elf La Phillie Air program that I had gone through, and Anri was just a no frills guy. He said what was on his mind, he wasn’t a man of many words, but he treated everybody equally and with respect and gave good, solid, direct advice.

And he of course, had so much presence at that race, not only as a driver, but as a team owner. And so a long list. But those two guys were definitely on my mind standing up there, as was my own father who, you know, really was [00:13:00] a, a humble natured carpenter and surfer from Southern California that put so much on the line to give me the opportunities to even get a chance at racing professionally one day.

So it was, uh, an emotional day.

Crew Chief Eric: I’m sure a lot of folks wanna hear more specifics about the nine 11, which we’ll get into. But before we do that, I wanna ask you sort of one more question about your time at Le Mans, and this is where it gets difficult, right? We got 15 attempts at Le Mans, which years and races stuck out to you.

I mean, I could pick some and throw darts and we could talk about specific years, but there’s gotta be some memories, maybe memories or mishaps. That really stick out to you in those 15 attempts that made one year or one season stick out more than the other?

Patrick Long: Yeah. I mean, obviously the successful years where the end result was P one are amazing.

I’ll briefly touch on oh four. I was the rookie, I was the liability and I had mentors as team teammates and team members. A few short years later, 2007, I was the elder statesman in the car, the one with the most experience, the one that had to qualify and start the car and lead the team with [00:14:00] set up and direction.

You know, only in a few years, the Le Mans felt like very much like a home for me, and I felt a different sense of emotion when we won that race and driving for IMSA performance. Matt moot a French team from Ruen just up the road with a big insurance company from France on the side of the car. It was a, a much different feeling than winning with Peterson White Lightning in 2004 with a, an All American crew.

So it was kind of the bookends and a great, great memory. Many years with flying lizard there. We never had a victory, but we had great fights, great times, and yeah, gave it our all. And then I guess I’ll finish off with a high point of three years with Patrick Dempsey and everything he brought to that race and brought to the energy of Laal and just.

A lifelong friend. We didn’t win in 2015, but we finished second and we fought our way up onto that podium, and that was Patrick’s lifelong dream was to stand on the podium. So that second was as emotional and as happy as any victory, and a lot of it was secondary to seeing someone else [00:15:00] realized their dream and all that that came, and all the emotion that he was having and the pressure that he had faced in the years and.

Days and hours of time that we spent preparing for that to get him to a point where not only could he hold his own out there, but put in the hours to get up onto the podium. I have a couple of memories of tough, tough moments at Le Mansll, and scary moments as well. You know, danger is always present in Motorsport and certainly at Le Mansll.

In 2011, my junior teammate from Porsche, Mike Rockefeller, had a massive crash on the back straightaway in a Audi, I think it was an r. 10 or 12. And, uh, I came through that incident and I didn’t know who had been in the car, but I just remember driving slowly through carbon fiber. There was really nothing left of that car.

And luckily Mike was over the barrier, a little dazed and confused, but had crawled out of that wreck. And that was a scary moment. And there were a few more that were maybe more tragic and more memorable for the wrong reasons. But without going in too much detail, Le Mansr [00:16:00] taught you to respect it. It taught you that every time you were out on track, you had to be at the top of your game and that the danger was always clearly and presently there.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s so many different ways we could take this whole different threads here. So let me ask. Some audience favorites. First, let’s just jump right off of where you stopped and you were kind of leading towards oops moments, and for a lot of drivers, those oops moments aren’t the ones you see on television.

They’re not on camera. They happen behind the scenes. In the pit box. Is there a. Funny sort of oops moment for you and all your time at Le Mans.

Patrick Long: Quite a few. I remember maybe the second attempt I was back with Peterson White Lightning driving with Yrg Burmeister and Team Oard, two Porsche Legends and great friends.

And I remember Yrg was. Ill. And so my second time at Le Mans, Timo and I, back to back stints all the way through pushing hard on a very hot race with an overheating car. So the cockpit temperatures were high, and I just remember being so fatigued at the end of that. And luckily I was in my twenties, so I had [00:17:00] plenty of reserve energy, but just being so sore and my bottom side being so sore that I couldn’t sit on a chair, I was just ruined.

But laughing about it and getting through it another time, Patrick Dempsey was. He was drawing fans. I mean, we couldn’t go anywhere in that town without a frenzy of at least a couple hundred people trying to run each other over to get a glimpse of him. I mean, his show, Grey’s Anatomy was bigger in Europe than it was in the us and I didn’t know any of this and I had never really traveled with a big celebrity or star like that.

But I had fought my way in 2013, my first time driving with him. We had fought our way up and we were in a pretty solid lead in our class, and I remember the German engineer coming over the radio. Could have been Jim Jordan, actually from the US who was translating for the team. But one way or another, the team said to me, look, you’re gonna pit this lap.

There is a amazing amount of journalists and fanfare around the pit box. It’s live on Eurosport and it’s. Twilight and everybody’s here, so just be careful as [00:18:00] you come in the pit box. Well, I pull into the pit box and I couldn’t see the crew. I couldn’t see Patrick. I just saw flashbulbs and the entire pit box was covered with traffic.

And so I got out of the car and I made eye contact with one of my young mechanics, and he looked over at me and shook his head like, I can’t get to the car to even change the tires. It was pure instinct, but I just started ripping journalists and photographers and anybody who had access to the pit lane.

One by one, just pulling on their lapels, their necks, anything that I could get ahold of to rip them out of the way. And I remember there was a wide shot of the pit lane of me sort of clearing human traffic so that we could get a team onto the car and maintain our lead in the class. So just all kinds of wild times like that.

I mean, coming back, being stranded out in the middle of Moozon in the middle of the night, and the crew not even knowing where I was. And of course, having to retire. Hitchhike back to the town that we were actually pitted in. So yeah, that’s one way I kind of put into perspective racing at Le Mans is you [00:19:00] travel through three or four different villages in a lap, so you get different weather patterns and all different types of things.

So yeah, it’s, it’s always an adventure and always have enjoyed it.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, you’ve done some name dropping throughout this. And a lot of the fans like to hear about who was your favorite teammate. So you mentioned Dempsey, you mentioned Borg, Meister, and Timo. Who is the best to drive with?

Patrick Long: Oh man, that would be a tough one to pick.

Just one, and this is gonna sound political, but what I learned is even your greatest enemies and arch rivals sometimes ended up as your teammates and when you were as competitive as pro racing drivers seemed to be and were in my time. Instantaneously. You are one and you are a unit and you really do pull all in the same direction.

And you know the week later when you go back to ALMS and you’re competing against each other in rival cars, you might not talk anymore. But I didn’t have a teammate that I didn’t enjoy at Le Mansr. I think you spend so much time together, not only in the lead. [00:20:00] But the schedule is something that I always tell people who go to Le Mans for the first time is really study how the schedule works and where you have to be in your prime and pace yourself because you can wear yourself out all the way through the week with late qualifying in practice and then Friday not being in the race car and all of the different things, the drivers parades and things.

But I might have done as many Le Mansr with Yrg. I don’t remember all the stats. They certainly drove with him more years. In my career than anybody else, probably eight out of 10 years, a certain period of time. Yorg Berg Meister was just a wild man and, and somebody that on paper, him and I were about as opposite as they come, but we had such a bond, such a trust and such a mutual respect.

And then of course, Patrick Dempsey is a big name and he is a recognizable face and, and he is all those things. But beyond all that. He’s such a historian of the sport. He’s such a racer at heart. He has so much love and so much optimism that it reminded me not to be cynical, not to take things [00:21:00] for granted, not to let the result disallow you from looking around and realizing what a special opportunity we had to even.

Be at Le Mansr, let alone competing or ending up on the podium. And it sounds cliche, but you know when you’re that hyper-focused, sometimes you don’t see the forest through the trees. It’s just the next session, the next problem, the next lap time, the next need. And sometimes Patrick reminded me and just would put his arm around me and just say like, this is so incredible and this is such a gift.

And you sometimes need somebody like that, especially when you can be as intense and goal-driven as I was in my prime.

Crew Chief Eric: Intense and goal driven, I think is the middle name of the Porsche team. Right? I mean, that’s what they’re all about. We’ve heard that from other people in the past. They’re very to the point, very exacting.

So let’s talk a little bit more about that unique relationship with a team with a factory and an engineering group like Porsche. Obviously, your whole career is built around that. Even your career after your career is very Porsche focused. Tell us about being one of the [00:22:00] few American factory drivers at Porsche.

What was that like?

Patrick Long: It’s a huge responsibility. It’s of course, the coolest car company in the world, in my humble opinion. And as long as they were willing to have me on the team, I was gonna stick around because I believed in the product. I believed in the culture. I loved the history of the company and the way that these cars looked and felt and drove.

I think there was a complete aura around Porsche and everything they’ve done at Le Mans, and you really have that sense of the crest that you carry and what that means and what you’re expected to do. And as an engineering company, as a design company, and as a racing company, have always been present in Motorsport, but specifically at Le Mans, if you think back to their first class victory with the 3 56 sl, I believe in 51, it’s a long run for them.

And. Every single car that has that Porsche badge on the hood has a a large part of their history. And that was always sobering for [00:23:00] me as a driver, but it also inspired me and it bred confidence because they’re loyal, they’re prepared, they’re intense, and they’re reliable and quick. And that was the ultimate dream for a young kid to be driving for not only, um, a car company.

And a group of individuals who stand for those things, but an entire brand worldwide in what it stands for.

Crew Chief Eric: Given your illustrious racing career and the opportunity to drive all sorts of other cars along the way, was there ever a car that you walked away from and said, that’s as good as a nine 11?

Patrick Long: You know, I think that it would be unfair for me to say that.

I didn’t enjoy or look at other cars or drive other cars that I didn’t have tremendous respect for. I love the grunt of a V eight. I love cheering on all different brands in what they do, both in racing and outside of racing. But there is this allegiance in this attraction that I had, not just because Porsche ended up where I made my living, [00:24:00] but I was a Porsche fan long before I ever drove one.

And the. Connection of the driver and the car, I think starts at a young childhood in how it smells and how it feels, what sounds it makes, and the squat of a nine 11, the small cockpit and the sound of a flat six. Those are all things that I have boyhood memories of. And then from the racing standpoint, I always believed that I could red line shift and break as late as possible and rub fenders and doors.

I just believed in the product that it was not. Fragile. I respected it, but I also believed that the Porsche way in the engineering and the Porsche intelligent performance meant that I had a rock solid tool to do my job. And what else could I ask for? You know, I was a pretty aggressive driver and I would curb that in the 24 hour races.

At all costs, but there were times where you didn’t have that choice. And I loved that aspect of just how hard I could push the Porsche product, whether it was a LMP two car with a V [00:25:00] eight in it, or a flat 6, 9, 11. There’s great, great times with all the different types of product, you know, driving all the different generations of not only nine elevens, but of mid-engine prototypes and all the different types of race cars that Porsche engineered and designed.

Some of the coolest parts of the job and still is, is that you get to sample things that were from decades long before my career. There’s this common thread through each one of the cards, whether it’s the ergonomics of how they fit and feel, or when you crank the engine, and that part of it is just super special.

Crew Chief Eric: Your 15 attempts at Le Mans Cross. Over the evolution of the nine 11 during the period of the 9 96 through the 9 92. So out of all of those, is there one you prefer over the other? Is it the first one, the 9, 9 6 with the manual transmission? Or is it one of the other nine 11 variants?

Patrick Long: I had a pretty big soft spot for the 9, 9, 7, especially the narrow bodied cars in the nine elevens.

I would say sort of. 2000 7, 8, 9. I [00:26:00] loved those cars because they were still relatively analog and you know, it wasn’t full paddle shift, it wasn’t mid-engine, it wasn’t too much tech. But at the same time, they made proper downforce and they had the speed, you know, once we started pushing well below four minutes with some small modifications to the racetrack, but it just felt like an arms race.

I remember being south of the four minute mark and then it seemed like every year we were going three or four seconds a lap faster. So it really did progress there through the middle part of my career. And those were the fun days because every single year we went there, it was development of new parts and wherever the homologation might have been and the cars didn’t stay the same very long.

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s talk about perceived rivalries. You mentioned, you know, rival drivers. That you competed with an A LMS and things like that. For those of us that are fans watching Le Mans three plus thousand miles away or more, if you’re in California, you watch it on tv, there’s always this perception, Porsche versus Ferrari, Porsche versus Corvette.

For you driving at Le Mans, was that a [00:27:00] real thing or was it different than that? Or was there an actual rivalry between Porsche and Ferrari and Porsche and Corvette? And if there was, which one do you think was the harder one to really beat at the end of the day or keep off your tail to make sure you locked in the podium?

Patrick Long: Yeah, my memories of the Porsche Corvette rivalry were much more stateside for one reason or another. I don’t remember having too many hard locked in battles with Corvette, and that might’ve been because of the different class overlap and the timing of what car and class I was in versus where they were entered.

But certainly Ferrari, especially in the early first half of my career at Le Mansll, that’s who we were gunning for. And I remember that REI being a US-based team, would put one of the best efforts out there. They were tough. There were so many battles between Porsche and Ferrari and specifically Re and we knew if they had a perfect race, they were gonna be tough to beat.

And, and they knew that about us at Porsche and it was always respectful. It was tough. There was little gestures [00:28:00] and elbows up jokes that were made and had, but we always understood they were just straightforward and were there for the same reasons as us. So very fond memories with. Rick and Giuseppe and all the drivers that they had that came through there.

That red car was, was a tough one.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s talk about the prototypes for a moment. Was there ever a chance to drive the nine 19 or were you just happy with the production cars? What was your plan within Porsche? Or did they have you sort of boxed in?

Patrick Long: My opportunities with prototypes came pretty early 2006, sort of couple years into my factory driver stand.

I started with Daytona prototypes in the Grand Am at that time, and then not long after that with Roger Penske and RS Spider Program stateside in in the American Le Mansll series and in imsa. In 2008, that was my one full season in LMP two, but that year I was called up to drive a GT car at Le Mansll, although there were a couple of [00:29:00] customer efforts with the RS Spider and very successful ones at that.

So never raced a prototype at the 24 hour Le Mansll, but grateful for those opportunities in the prototype categories racing for overall wins. And for people like Roger Penske, I mean, that still goes down as a huge highlight for me, not only to have that name on your overalls, but to have Roger himself calling every one of my races in 2008.

You know, there was an intense respect between us and we spoke openly at all times, but it was clear Roger was there to win and it all focuses. So, um, yeah, still running to Roger and like I mentioned in the pre-show. Beginning to drive his latest 9 63 RSP this past weekend. It, it’s been, uh, a longstanding relationship with those guys and just a huge amount of respect for them.

Crew Chief Eric: What do you think of the 9 63?

Patrick Long: It’s wild. I mean, the, we touched on it. I’m kind of old school at heart. I like an ignition button and a break bias. Yeah, you strap into the modern LMP [00:30:00] cars and it is an intense amount of different protocols, levers, lights. I mean, just to put in perspective, the steering wheel had three paddles on each side, so I had six different paddles.

There was probably 20 buttons on the steering wheel and another 20 buttons off to my right. And this isn’t a pretty small cockpit. And there were a lot of different cadences to the combustion engine and the hybrid engine communicating. The simplest one. In my first time when I drove the race car back in 2023, I had some lapse at Laguna Seca during Rensport was how do I even get this thing outta the pits?

And of course you get the 130 page log on how to operate it, but in the end, you really just ask your fellow drivers and they give you the quick direct route to it. So you start. In electric power mode as you leave the box and then at a certain point you get a display on your dash that says bump start ready, and that’s when you release the proverbial clutch and then the combustion engine fires up and that’s when the fun starts.

So it’s, yeah, just incredible to touch all different types of tech. But in this day [00:31:00] and age, the 9 63 is is a very complicated car.

Crew Chief Eric: So knowing what you know now and looking at the last couple of years of Le Mans, the GT classes are pretty well sorted. The balance of performance is there, you know, there’s some really great competition, there’s some really great racing at that level.

But up at the top, it’s getting interesting. More and more brands are getting involved. You’re hearing things about Hyundai and Ford’s coming back, and I mean, just everybody’s coming out the woodwork to run an LMP. In your opinion, what’s missing from the 9 63? What’s holding it back now that you’ve driven one, you’ve been around them, you know about them.

What’s the magic thing that they gotta do to make that car win at Le Mans?

Patrick Long: If I knew, they probably would want to hear it from me, but I, I. I think that clearly 2025, they gave it a heck of a run and to finish second, and to have as clean of a race as they did with a great, solid strategy was inspiring. But Ferrari’s been tough.

They have had it covered and it’s. Playing your cards correctly, you have gotta build a car. That’s great for the entire [00:32:00] WEC and IMSA season. And Porsche’s proven to be ultra strong on the full season and I think that’s a big focus is winning the championship outright. Naturally, everybody wants Le Mans as well, and I’m sure they’re working hard on that.

I don’t have that answer. When I go back to my own career and my own experience, the hardest part about setting up a car for Le Mansll is that you have to be quick in the straight lines. There’s so much straightaway at Le Mansll, but you can easily get focused on that one lap pace. And then forget that you’ve gotta last an hour in a stint and that you need your tire underneath you and you need to be quick through the Porsche curbs and you need to be good in breaking and all the things that downforce bring to you.

But of course, that’s a balance of drag. So it’s making efficient downforce, uh, where you’re slippery and quick in a straight line, but still have that tire underneath you and, and the driver’s confidence to go really quick through the Porsche curve. So, yeah, all speculation from my side, but I’ll just come and say it.

I’ve [00:33:00] had perfect, perfect races at Le Mans. We have never slipped up or lost a second in the pits or had anything go wrong and finish outside the top five. And that’s because there’s balance of performance. There’s adversity in weather and other things outside of your control. So even having a perfect race and having three drivers that are all identical in their perfect pace doesn’t guarantee you anything at Amal.

At least not anymore and and that’s why it’s so great to watch.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, I’m glad you went there and you mentioned strategy and how important that is to racing. I wanna know more from the perspective, not of the team strategy, but of what you as a driver have a role in shaping the decisions from the cockpit.

And I bring that up because you hear about this more and more when you watch Formula One, you get Max and Charles going, leave me alone, just let me drive. Right? They got the engineer parroting something in their ear all the time, which is distracting. Does that relationship exist at the 24 in the same way?

And if so, how did you influence the engineers and the pit box to say, Hey guys, this is what I think we need to do.

Patrick Long: Yeah, it [00:34:00] comes back to a few things that are really like that home court advantage knowledge of how the racetrack evolves. Because what happens naturally is that you go to the pretest, which used to be a couple weeks before the race, and the track is pretty green ’cause of course the majority of it is public road used and there’s sand and you know, there there’s a lack of grip.

And then, uh, you sort of find a baseline set up and then you come back a couple weeks later, which of course is less time now as the schedule is a lot tighter, but. Still that evolution of the racetrack and really understanding how much grip is going to come in the racetrack over 24 hours of those roads being closed and the race being run.

So you have to be focused on qualifying, but not really other than bragging rights. I think qualifying has a little to do with the end of the race results. Maybe catching a safety car or something where you really do need to be starting up front. But in our days, I don’t think that. Qualifying really meant anything.

And therefore you really have to think long [00:35:00] term about how that car’s gonna drive. You know, at the end of the race, after two or three stints on a tire, we didn’t always have the ability to change to a new set of tires every single stint. And then again, taking care of yourself and as a driver, making sure that you’re not just chasing that one fast lap in practice or qualifying.

But that you can sustain 12 of 24 hours behind the the wheel. I mean, that was, uh, as big of a factor as anything was the ability to have that focus and that physical endurance to put those many laps in. And, and nowhere did I ever put as many laps in a 24 hour period as at Le Mansll. And when I say as many laps.

As many minutes in a race car. And so yeah, it’s, it’s a little bit of everything, but I’ll touch on it again. I think that’s why I’m so fond of the era of when I got to drive at Le Mansr, because it still had that endurance aspect to it, where today it’s outright full on sprinting.

Crew Chief Eric: So when we look at your start in 1999 at la.

Carting and living there and all that all the [00:36:00] way through 2019. So a 20 year run. You saw a lot of change at LA Mob. Now, when we compare that to Legends that came before you, they talk a lot about the old days where the Molson didn’t have the bus stops, and you know, this was this way and the pit boxes were certain way.

The big changes sort of happened in the nineties. And so you come on the scene, but you have a 20 year window. So what are the things that stuck out to you the most, whether it was atmosphere, competition, or technology that evolved at Le Mans in your 20 year run?

Patrick Long: I think the town, of course, grew, uh, in, in different ways and, you know, public transportation in different ways to bring more fans.

The racetrack itself operated and felt a lot differently, especially the pits. In the beginning, it felt like you very much had a pit lane and the overhead suites, but through the years there just was an abundance of development and new buildings and new fan areas, and so yeah, it felt bigger from beginning to end.

It felt much more electrified with [00:37:00] technology, and I think that in the end, the racetrack did. Evolve with different curbs and safety aspects, but only for the positive. I, I don’t think that there was anything that really was big enough change that the racetrack drove differently in those 20 years. And so that was the part I was always most focused on and and most grateful that we were able to preserve that.

Obviously the chicanes and Moozon came long before I did, but the track that I knew really only changed for the better with runoff and safety, but the layout and the driving. Emotion of the track always was retained.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, Patrick, we’re gonna switch to some crowd questions. We oftentimes have folks write in or send us questions ahead of time that they would love for our legend to answer on air.

This one I have to preface a little bit because she is one of your. Former pupils. So take you back to team USA at mid Ohio, and apparently you said something to Miss Sabra Cook at the time that stuck with her. And so her, first of two questions [00:38:00] for you is, did you retire from racing to focus on your social media?

Patrick Long: No, definitely not. But yeah, Sabra is a, a tremendous driver and, uh. Wow, what a, an ambassador for the sport and for her sponsors and her objectives. I, I always think that if I knew social media like her and some of the drivers that I mentor, I might be in a lot better place with endorsements and things of that nature, but.

Driving and calling it quits on a full-time career was a difficult decision for me. But at the same time, I’ve never looked back. I just was so fond of all the opportunities I had, and in this day and age, ironically, I look after many social media accounts, mainly for my company, lul and Air Water, two different experiential shows that we do.

Around the world telling stories of race and street, both vintage and modern, and all centered around Porsche.

Crew Chief Eric: So to add to that, she said, do you still believe, to quote you from Mid-Ohio, if I see you posting on social media during the day, that means you’re not training [00:39:00] or focusing on racing. Is that still true after all these years?

Are they now hand in hand racing and social media?

Patrick Long: I think so, and to answer that question, no. I feel like in this day and age, drivers are almost expected to cover their day, whether it’s business trading or driving on track. It’s an interesting debate because as we see drivers. Evolve generation to generation.

There’s certainly so much more out there. There’s so many more cameras, there’s so many more opinions. There’s so much more that you have put out there, but also that people have a platform to speak about. And I think it does in some ways change the driver comradery and, and the way that drivers are. And, and you look back and even when I started as a factory driver, there wasn’t any social media.

Different these days. And, and I think it’s, it’s not easy, but I do think it gives the fans a new way in, and everybody is kind of the director and star of their own little mini TV documentary of course, that everybody holds in their handheld phone. So [00:40:00] that’s the good news. You get to dictate, uh, how and what you share.

But I must have had some choice words for Sabre and some of the young drivers when they were coming through Team USA in regards to social media behaviors. I can’t recall.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s a good answer. And for those listening at home, they might not know this. You had a cameo in Brad Pitt’s most recent Formula one movie, and she wanted to know, are you taller than Brad Pitt?

Patrick Long: I don’t think I ever stood back to back with Brad, but uh, yeah, we’re probably very similar in our seat position because I shared the race car with him quite a few times in different scenes and also in preparation for the F1 film and what a guy, I mean for the amount of stardom that he has. Just so humble, so.

Easygoing but real. I mean, he wanted to know about the race car, about the racetrack, about how it all took place. And we shot a lot of that first opening scene for those of you who’ve seen the movie during the Rolex 24, right in the middle of the night, stint of 2024. And I took him next door ’cause we had a [00:41:00] pit box set up for us on Pittling during the race.

Just for shooting, but next door was our parody car in the right motor sports entered car. And so we sat up on the pit box and put a headset on him and he just couldn’t believe how intense it was and how much banter there was between the engineers and the drivers. And it was a super fun moment. And it just showed how passionate he was to learn.

And it wasn’t just about shooting a film, but that he really took his downtime to enjoy endurance sports car racing.

Crew Chief Eric: Do you think he’s gonna do something like Dempsey did and go racing himself?

Patrick Long: I don’t know. I think he’s had great amounts of seat time shooting, both in the formula cars and the sports cars, and you know, he sampled the McLaren Formula one car after the movie released, but no intel from my side.

I think that he’ll probably drive some race cars and certainly show up at race tracks. But as far as going at it in any, any way, shape or form like Patrick did, I wouldn’t bet on it. But you never know.

Crew Chief Eric: The gentleman driver is still a thing at Le Mans. It’s one of the few places where you can still do that.

So maybe we’ll see Brad Pitt at [00:42:00] Le Mans one of these days for real, behind the wheel of a maybe a Porsche, right?

Patrick Long: Yeah. The first day we went out, we had a GT three RS Street car, a cup car, and a GT three R, which of course is the main car that races at Le Mans for Porsche. And we spent about an hour in the street car, we skipped the cup car and we went straight to the race car.

I just believe in immersing somebody in the environment that they need to get up to speed. And he had a, a real good feel and he was very trusting and listened. Yeah, all those laps at Daytona, I was honored to be guiding him around the racetrack, not just from the pit lane and, and on the radio, but in another car in front of him during those scenes.

And the scenes came out amazing and there’s been just great reception and so many messages that people really enjoyed the racing scenes, especially at Daytona. So very proud of that.

Crew Chief Eric: Scott writes, what was more stressful preparing for Le Mans or preparing for your annual Luka cult events?

Patrick Long: Well, I used to think that being a racing driver was a huge amount of prep and a huge amount of responsibility.

But once I started promoting my own [00:43:00] events and running my own business and having a, a team and logistics and budgets and protocols and safety briefings, I realized how fortunate I was and, and how fortunate so many pro racing drivers are because. You show up last, you leave first. Everything’s set up and built.

You have representatives who stand next to you and tell you where you have to be schedule wise and book your flights for you. And so, yeah, I had to learn the entire backside of movie magic or putting on a race team or an race event. And Luol is a, is a static display of cars. But what it is and what it represents, that a parallel to racing is, is that you have the preparation, the buildup, the logistics, you have the performance.

You have that time and day where everybody’s gonna be there, whether you’re ready or not. You don’t push deadlines, there’s no extensions, and then you have that celebration or defeat. You know, you have that aftermath and that feeling with your team. Going out and then starting all over and preparing for your next show.

And so I think [00:44:00] in many ways it’s been an amazing gift for me to have a, a focus beyond just driving race cars fast. And, uh, I try to add as many different elements that I learned in racing to Luka cold and to air water and to these Porsche events. And. I think we’ve sort of opened up a new segue to entering or allowing a portal for the younger generation to get into racing and into cars, and that’s always the goal, is to do something that makes an impact.

So super fun and it’s certainly never boring. So, uh, I wake up and I’m as charged up as I ever was as a driver.

Crew Chief Eric: Troy writes, how much do you think BOP pre-select a winner? Do you think BOP is a good thing? And why?

Patrick Long: I don’t think BOP selects a winner. I think BOP stems from taking manufacturers streetcars.

And trying to take a heavy, high horsepower car and a light low horsepower car and make them battle closely on the racetrack. As far as ground up prototypes, the goal is that everybody [00:45:00] has a shot, and what you really want is the ability for teams to fight it out with strengths and weaknesses on the track.

With driver strategy and things of that nature. But you know, I’m past the point of being employed as a racing driver, so I’ll probably be willing to speak a little bit more on this than someone who’s in it in the center of it. I think that there’s a little bit of gamesmanship depending on what the ultimate focus is, and a lot of things, you know, you have to decide when to play your cards and when to.

You know, not player cards, but with torque sensors and with the evolution of technology, there really isn’t the ability to sandbag. There really isn’t the ability to hide performance. And, and that’s why you have such hard races with so many cars, so close from different manufacturers. But I think what we all want is a fair fight.

I think that as a fan, you wanna see the ones who work the hardest, uh, who develop the best product. To have an edge. It doesn’t always have to be fair straight across the board. So [00:46:00] I think the officials have a very, very tricky and difficult challenge to monitor all of that, and it’s a very thankless job.

You only hear from the people who aren’t happy with the outcome of a race. You never hear from. The people that respect and admire just how much effort’s put in. So it’s a subject. They will long be debated, but if you look at where current prototype racing is, there’s more manufacturer support. There’s more depth of field in GT and prototype racing than I’ve ever seen.

So you certainly can’t argue that the formula is working.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, Patrick, one more crowd question before we go into our wrap up segment. Christopher asks, do you enjoy visiting a track and watching a race or does it still feel a little bit too much like a day at work?

Patrick Long: You know, personally, when I go to a track, I enjoy just like I did as a kid watching a good hard fight, but all the days leading up to the race.

If I have a focus, I love being there. I love the environment. I love seeing colleagues. I love the [00:47:00] energy, but just to be hanging out on vacation or as a fan now, I’d probably be at home. But the example being we spent three and a half weeks at Daytona shooting F1 the movie during and before and after the 24 hours.

And, and I loved that because I was working in. To the teams, different focuses, different goals, but being in that atmosphere and in that environment with a destination and with a focus, it was the best of both worlds. So still lots of love for the racetrack.

Crew Chief Eric: Now that you’ve stepped back from full-time racing, how do you reflect on your Le Mans’s legacy?

What does the race still mean to you today? And when you think back over that, do a little retrospective analysis, what did Le Mans teach you?

Patrick Long: I would say that Le Mans humbles you. It is such a prestigious event, and it is such a big name in the world of sport, but when you’re out on the racetrack going 200 miles an hour in the middle of the night, you’re all alone.

And at that point it can [00:48:00] be eerie. It’s you against the racetrack, and that’s where you have to have that humility in that respect for what’s going on with other competitors, danger. Focus on human performance and on performing and getting the most out of yourself. So I think it teaches you to be calculated, and because you’re going so fast, you really do have to be precise.

All of it was a rhythm and a flow. So I would just say humility, precision, and uh, respect.

Crew Chief Eric: You do a lot of historic racing now. I’ve seen you at the Monterey Historics. You’ve done red sport, a lot of other events now that Le Mans Classic is in full swing, starting with this year, they’re gonna do one every year alongside of the 24.

Do you see yourself participating at Le Mans Classic, and if so, is there a car that you’d like to run there? Particular era of endurance racing.

Patrick Long: I have not attended the race before nor competed. I do have a goal of being there. I don’t know what the race car would be if I was to choose one right now.

Maybe a a [00:49:00] 9 9 3 era, GT two Evo or an RSR only because. I think that that was the generation just before me. It was also the generation of nine 11 that was racing when I first attended the track in 99. Just one of my favorite street cars. So that’s one. The group C cars and GTP Cars of nine 60 twos 9 56 is, is just.

One of my favorite race cars to drive. So that would be another one high on the list. You know, 9 62 of last generations and twin turbos and more evolved brakes is, is a car that was just many decades ahead of itself, at least from a driving perspective. And so, yeah, one day maybe we’ll get the chance.

Crew Chief Eric: Lastly, what’s next, Patrick?

Patrick Long: Well, I’m sitting, uh, in, in our planning office and team office, and there’s whiteboards all around me and everything is about our upcoming show in Durham, North Carolina. We do an annual air cooled gathering. This year is our 11th. Edition and, uh, first time on the proper east side of the country.

So [00:50:00] time has flown. I obviously started this brand and, and this gathering and celebration reunion, it’s not just for car owners, but 85% of the people who come are not Porsche owners. And that’s, uh, one of the big parts of my focus these days. I also have a seven and a 10-year-old, so they’re at home excited and eager for me to come back and hang out with them.

And it’s just a super fun age, just a different cadence of life than it was when I was. 200 days a year on the road, but Porsche and Motorsport is all around me in my everyday life still, and for that I’m grateful and just continuing to get to ride this wave of taking my passion since I was three years old and 41 years later, still getting to play with cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we’ve reached that part of the episode where I’d like to turn the microphone over to an a CO representative, and so David Lowe, president of A-C-O-U-S-A, is gonna have some parting

David Lowe: thoughts. Patrick, on behalf of the Automobile Club, Dilla West and our A-C-O-U-S-A community, I’d really like to thank you for sharing your story with us tonight.

It’s an honor to celebrate your journey together. [00:51:00] Thank you very much.

Patrick Long: Thanks, David. It’s been a great time. Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: That wraps up tonight’s evening with the legend. We took a fascinating journey through the legendary Le Mans experiences of Patrick Long from his first time racing on the hallowed grounds of Circuit D Losar to his class victories with Porsche.

Patrick’s story is one of talent, precision, and unwavering dedication to the art of endurance racing. His impact on the sport, especially as the only American Porsche factory driver of his era has left a lasting legacy, both in the paddock and in the history books to keep up with Patrick and his continued work in motorsports, including his involvement with Luka Cult and other Porsche centric projects.

Be sure to follow him on Instagram and Twitter at pl motorsport, and you can also visit his official website@www.patricklong.com for more updates, appearances and insights into his career and current ventures. And with that, we hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more evening with a legend throughout the season.

And Patrick, on behalf of everyone here and those listening at home, thank you for sharing your stories with us.

Patrick Long: I [00:52:00] appreciate it. It’s been, uh, a great time, very fond memories, and I’ll be looking forward to listening to your next episodes.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club of the West and the A-C-O-U-S-A from the awe-inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance. The 24 hours of the Le Mans is an automotive spectacle like no other. For over a century the 24 hours Le Mans has urged manufacturers to innovate for the benefit of future motorists, and it’s a celebration of the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.

To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.Le Mansn.org, click on English in the upper right corner and then click on the a CO members tab for club offers. Once you’ve become a member, you can follow all the action on the Facebook group, [00:53:00] A-C-O-U-S-A Members Club, and become part of the Legend with Future Evening with the legend meetups.

This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring Historian, break Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsport and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.

Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the [00:54:00] episode.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Patrick Long: America’s Endurance Racing Star
01:42 Patrick Long’s Early Racing Years
04:15 Racing in Europe and Early Challenges
06:17 The Unique Challenges of Le Mans
11:53 Teammates and Inspirations
21:33 The Porsche Legacy and Racing Career
26:40 Porsche vs Ferrari: A Respectful Rivalry
28:16 Prototypes and Other Opportunities
29:48 Driving the 963: A Modern Challenge
31:03 The Evolution of Le Mans
33:29 Driver’s Role in Strategy
35:53 Reflecting on a 20-Year Career
37:35 Crowd Q&A: Social Media and Racing, The F1 Movie, and more!
47:30 Le Mans Legacy and Lessons
48:27 Historic Racing and Future Plans
50:40 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

Evening With A Legend

We hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more Evening With A Legend throughout this season. Sign up for the next EWAL TODAY!

Evening With A Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to Legends of the famous 24 Hours of Le Mans giving us an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you. By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance to become part of the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.

What makes Le Mans so special? For Long, it’s the rhythm, the speed, and the sheer variety of corners. “The Porsche Curves are like a street circuit – but three times faster,” he said. “It’s a wild, wild place.”

While tracks like Bathurst and the Nürburgring challenged his nerve, Le Mans became a second home. “I was always the first one off the plane and on the way to the track. I couldn’t wait to get out there.”

Long’s second Le Mans win came in 2007 with IMSA Performance Matmut, a French team based in Rouen. This time, he was the veteran, leading setup and strategy. “It was a different feeling – winning with an all-American crew in ’04, then with a French team and sponsor in ’07. Both were special in their own way.”

Dempsey, Danger, and the Drive to Inspire

Among his most emotional races was 2015, when he co-drove with Patrick Dempsey to a second-place finish. “That was Patrick’s dream – to stand on the podium at Le Mans. Seeing him realize that was as emotional as any win.”

But Le Mans also taught hard lessons. In 2011, Long came upon the wreckage of Mike Rockenfeller’s Audi – shredded carbon fiber strewn across the track. “It taught you to respect the place. The danger was always present.”

Not all memories were dramatic. Some were just plain absurd. Like the time Long had to physically clear photographers from the pit box so the crew could service the car. “I just started ripping journalists out of the way. There’s a wide shot of me clearing human traffic so we could maintain our lead.”

Or the time he and Timo Bernhard had to double-stint through the night because Bergmeister was ill. “I was so sore I couldn’t sit in a chair afterward.”

Teammates, Rivals, and the Porsche Brotherhood

Long shared the track with legends – Bergmeister, Bernhard, Dempsey – and counted them all as brothers in arms. “Even your greatest rivals became teammates. At Le Mans, you pulled in the same direction.” He had a special bond with Bergmeister, his most frequent co-driver, and deep admiration for Dempsey’s passion. “Patrick reminded me not to be cynical. To look around and realize what a gift it was just to be there.”

Driving for Porsche wasn’t just a job – it was a calling. “They’re loyal, prepared, intense, and reliable. I believed in the product. I could redline every shift, hit every curb, and know the car would take it.”

His favorite? The 997-era 911s – narrow-bodied, analog, and brutally fast. “They weren’t full paddle shift yet, but they made proper downforce. Every year we went faster. It felt like an arms race.”

ACO USA

To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.lemans.org, Click on English in the upper right corner and then click on the ACO members tab for Club Offers. Once you become a Member you can follow all the action on the Facebook group ACOUSAMembersClub; and become part of the Legend with future Evening With A Legend meet ups.

This content has been brought to you in-part by support through...

Nation Safe Drivers: Richard Holland’s Roadside Revolution

Gran T

-

November 18, 2025

0

Nation Safe Drivers: Richard Holland’s Roadside Revolution

The Break/Fix Podcast has always been about capturing the living history of the automotive world—stories from racers, wrench-turners, designers, and innovators who shape our passion for cars. In this episode, we sit down with Richard Holland, a dynamic leader at Nation Safe Drivers (NSD), whose career journey spans decades of innovation in roadside assistance and risk management.

Richard’s story begins in the car culture of Southern California in the late 1960s and early ’70s. Walking past restoration shops on his way to school, he was captivated by the artistry of automobiles. By the time he earned his driver’s license, he scraped together $350 to buy his first car: a 1965 Mustang Fastback. That Mustang became his gateway into drag racing, tinkering, and eventually a lifelong immersion in the automotive industry. “I think my blood was replaced with motor oil,” Richard laughs, recalling how those formative years shaped his identity as a car enthusiast.

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Like many young drivers, Richard learned that cars weren’t just about speed or style – they had to be reliable. Shade-tree mechanics of his era had no choice but to pop the hood and fix things themselves. That hands-on experience taught him the importance of safety, dependability, and helping others when the unexpected happens.

Those lessons carried into his professional life. For over 40 years, Richard has been building technologies and services that ensure motorists are supported when breakdowns occur. His philosophy is simple: driver safety comes first.

Spotlight

Synopsis

This Break/Fix episode features Richard Holland, a leader at Nation Safe Drivers (NSD), discussing the company’s innovative approaches and his personal journey in the automotive and roadside assistance industry. Through an engaging conversation with the host, Crew Chief Eric, Richard shares insights into NSD’s services, including financial and insurance products, and its comprehensive nationwide roadside assistance network. He emphasizes NSD’s technology-forward strategy, partnerships, and commitment to safety and customer care. Richard also highlights the company’s proactive role in addressing the evolving needs of vehicle owners, especially with the rise of electric vehicles (EVs), and sheds light on how AI and other technologies could enhance future services. Anecdotes about customer experiences and the industry’s future challenges and opportunities make this an informative and inspiring listen for automotive enthusiasts.

What first drew you to the automotive and roadside assistance industry, and how has your journey with Nation Safe Drivers evolved over time?
Nation Safe Drivers has a long history of serving motorists—what do you think has been the key to the company’s longevity and success?
There are two sides to the business Roadside Services and Finance and Insurance Products. Explain the NSD offerings, but also how they work together?
From your perspective, how has the roadside assistance industry changed the most over the past decade?
Partnerships seem to be an important part of NSD’s business—how have collaborations shaped the company’s growth and reach?
What role do you see technology playing in the future of driver safety and customer support?
Can you share a story or example of when Nation Safe Drivers made a meaningful impact on a customer’s experience on the road?
What’s the best way to become part of the NSD system? Where do you sign up?
What challenges do you think the industry will face in the coming years, and how is NSD preparing to meet them?

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Break Fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder. How did they get that job or become that person?

The Road to Success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Today on Break Fix, we’re joined by Richard Holland, a dynamic leader at Nation Safe Drivers. With decades of experience in the automotive and roadside assistance industry, Richard has been at the forefront of creating innovative solutions that keep drivers safe and supported when they need it most.

From shaping customer first programs to building strong partnerships across the mobility space, his insights reflect both a deep industry knowledge and a vision for the future of driver safety. We’re excited to dive into his journey, the evolution of nation safe drivers, and how he sees technology and service redefining the [00:01:00] road ahead.

And with that, let’s welcome Richard to break fix.

Richard Holland: Eric, glad to be here. Appreciate the opportunity to visit with you for a few minutes.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Richard, like all good break fix stories, there’s a superhero origin story and a little birdie tells me you’re an avid motor sports fan. So let’s talk about those beginnings and what drew you into the automotive and roadside assistance industry and how your journey with Nation safe drivers has evolved.

Richard Holland: Hey, I appreciate that. I think I go back to really my early youth. Raised in Southern California in the late sixties, early seventies. It was a car culture down there. I remember walking to my elementary school and walking by cars. Were in front of a restoration slash customization shop, and there was just something about the artwork of an automobile that just drew my attention to it.

As I got older, started to approach those formative years, what a driver’s license became like. This gate of manhood, I couldn’t wait to get one, and as soon as I got one, I parlayed what little money I [00:02:00] had made and went out and bought my first car, which back then was a 1965 Mustang fast back. I think I paid like $350 for it.

Love that car, did all the stupid stuff teenagers do in it, you know? That was the era of, I will call it drag racing, or at least sporting yourself against your buddy’s cars. And then as I got older, taste get more sophisticated, maybe a little more opportunity to get more selective about what you did. And then I found myself really in the automotive technology space, which put me into a car dealerships several every week.

Gave me a chance, gosh, probably my twenties, to test drive. About every make that was made. So you got to see everything from back then. There was, even the Yugo existed right from Yugo to Ferrari and there was something unique, something clever about every car and something just so powerful about it. So I think, you know, my blood was replaced with motor oil and just been a car enthusiast.

Ever since.

Crew Chief Eric: So those [00:03:00] early days with that Mustang. Yeah, probably a lot of stories that you can’t share on air about your escapades, but a lot of lessons learned. So how did those translate into the automotive and roadside assistance industry?

Richard Holland: Well, I think the first thing, I think every young kid wants a car that is a statement about who they are, became sort of how you even defined yourself.

It seems to be lost a lot with today’s generations, but back then it was how you defined yourself. And so I looked for one that had a lot of. Z had interest, was powerful, made a lot of noise, but it had to be reliable. Didn’t matter how loud that thing was or how fast it could go, if it only went that way a few days out of the week, it was a problem.

So you learn back then how to open the hood, surface it your. Self, you could be a shade tree mechanic. You know, those days now have all largely changed. Cars have evolved so rapidly, technologically, I mean, now they’re just works of art that are engineering masterpieces. And today the reliability dramatically improved, but still from [00:04:00] time to time the unexpected happens.

And so I got drawn into this career. In my twenties, been in it ever since. Really take a lot of lessons out of just helping people in a time of need, either preventing them taking good care of that vehicle and the road worthiness of it. Or when the unexpected happens, how do you quickly get them to a safe place, get that car repaired and back on the road.

So been building and enabling technologies and services really for the last 40 years. To do that very thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Tell us a little bit about what Nation Safe Drivers is.

Richard Holland: So it’s a great group of team members here. We’re headquartered in South Florida, but have a national reach. If you look at our name Nation right, that just speaks to us.

Being from coast to coast. We can service anybody anywhere, any zip code in the country. Safe is really the fundamental principle that we execute. We wanna make sure the motorist is safe. Both from a financial perspective and then also from a physical one. And then we are all about the drivers. We love motor sports.

[00:05:00] Here we focus on the motorists, and so that’s happens to be embedded in our name. So we really offer two predominant categories of solution. The first is, is risk aversion. Today, the cost of repairs on a vehicle can be. Catastrophic. Even for the small little repairs, whether it’s a windshield being replaced, the wheels burnishing out that scuff you got on the curb road hazards that impact a tire failure all the way up to mechanical coverage.

And so we call that our risk business, where we help motorists manage that risk. And you know, a relatively modest personal investment, they can safeguard. Themselves from any serious financial investment that they may have to make. That generally is always unexpected. The second part of our business is, is recovery.

We realize that it’s going to happen. You’re gonna find yourself on the side of the road, flat tire, out of gas, check engine light, whatever it may be, and you need to call a friend. So we want that friend to be nation safe Drivers. We [00:06:00] operate with a network of about 50,000 tow providers from coast to coast.

Have roughly, gosh, 250,000 recovery vehicles at our disposal to get you off the side of the road, get the car to a certified repair facility. Maybe it’s just bring you a couple of gallons of gas and get you back on the way or change that tire. We view it, we want every one of our motorists to be pictured in the minds of our team members as their little grandma on the side of the road.

What wouldn’t they do to make sure that she was safe and on her way?

Crew Chief Eric: The 900 pound gorilla in your space is the long running, probably the oldest one outside of the a CO in France. Which would be the AAA in the United States. Yes. What’s the key differentiator between Nation Safe and aaa?

Richard Holland: Well, I think AA is an all volunteer.

I mean, you opt into it at a consumer to provider level. We happen to differentiate ourselves by being the fulfilling partner for the brand promise for lots of others. So if you’ve bought a. A new car, [00:07:00] you have an OEM who incorporates roadside assistance. You might have an insurance product, whether it’s your vehicle insurance, could be A VSC.

It has a benefit in it, which is roadside assistance, rather than us saying, okay, it’s insurance company A, B, C. We let them say that. We give them a number, they call us. And we think of ourselves as them and we’re their fulfillment partner. And so we execute really on the brand promise of about 1400 companies out there for us today.

There isn’t a direct to consumer access to nation safe drivers. Our ability to be of service comes through other partners that you have in your life.

Crew Chief Eric: As I understand it, there’s two sides to this business as you explained it. There’s the roadside service and then there’s the finance and insurance products.

Yep. Can you explain how they work, how they work together, and what does it cost to become, let’s say, a member of Nation Safe Drivers?

Richard Holland: I think we’ve all probably had an opportunity to purchase a vehicle from a dealership, whether a franchised one or an independent dealer. [00:08:00] One of the services that they offer is, is the arrangement of financing, which is the I.

The I happens to represent insurance like products, and usually when we hear insurance, we think life insurance, and I guess it’s not a bad metaphor. This is the life insurance of a mechanical device, and there you have a menu of options. Depending on where you feel uncomfortable, you might want to cover that off.

Maybe it’s a used car and you say, gosh, you know it’s got 50,000 miles on it. I don’t know how much repairs are gonna cost in the future. So let me get into place a vehicle service contract in the event I have a serious mechanical failure transmission goes out. The cost of that repair is covered by the inclusion of that insurance product.

That’s probably the upper end, and they can run it in the several thousands of the dollars. There isn’t a particularly set price for that because there’s so many variables. What make model, what’s the age of the car? How many miles are on the car? What’s the service history been? And so all of those are [00:09:00] priced dynamically so that that risk is as appropriate to the serviceability and frankly the expected failure rate of the car.

Uh, you have at the other extreme, other products now cars. Is really a combination of components, no long gone are the days of repair. Now it’s all just simply replaced, something goes wrong, they replace the system. And so some of those systems can be carved out and say, that’s the one I want to have my insurance coverage in.

Uh, one that happens to be very popular today is the infotainment system. Long gone is is the eight track tape or just the a m FM radio Now It’s very sophisticated. Even CDs, you don’t find those in cars anymore. It’s the streaming surface. It’s also the mission control for all of the other technology in the car.

That component goes out very costly repair, so you can carve that out and do something just for that. Glass has become an incredible component in a vehicle, and we generally think of it as just. You know, refined sand that we can look [00:10:00] through. But the reality is that a windshield now is a serious, specialized device.

It has sound deadening properties, it has reflective properties, it has heads up display. Also it’s, you know, the lens through which. Certain adaptive technologies all operate if they’re not calibrated correctly. All of those are a failure point on the vehicle, so it’s become a very integral part of the car and expensive.

And so even just hedging that it can be a a windshield alone type of product. People love to personalize their vehicles. If you’re a truck driver, it’s bigger tires, bigger wheels. If you’re just have an upscale vehicle, it’s how do I differentiate myself with aftermarket wheels? All of those to be repaired is expensive.

So you could even get just a tire and wheel program, and then there’s combinations you can bundle some of those together. So I guess really the long and short answer, Eric is, is that you have lots of options. As a motorist, you do yourself really well to get informed about all the options are. Then make decisions that are appropriate for you.

They could be in the [00:11:00] thousands of dollars down to just a few hundred.

Crew Chief Eric: So to make sure that our listeners aren’t confused, it’s not an extended warranty. No. It’s augmenting what you’re buying, whether that’s a new car, certified pre-owned, or an existing used vehicle. So where is the suites? Spot for nation safe drivers in terms of the car’s too old or the car’s too expensive.

We’re looking for that Goldilocks car, right? Yeah. So what fits the bill if you wanted to become part of the program?

Richard Holland: It’s personalized by every car. I mean, what we don’t have is the ability to influence motorists to say what we have recognized is that this car is, it’s going to be the most road worthy for the longest period of time, and we want everyone to go buy that.

You’d minimize your repair bill, in fact. We have an interesting study here, and I comment that if I looked out my window and I had the mileage on the windshields of the car out there, knowing what there were, I could probably predict with about 93% accuracy what the next two years worth of repair bills would look like for those cars.

So we do, you know, manage that particular risk. If you said, gosh, what do we love? We love that mid [00:12:00] mileage, so call it. 40 to 80,000 mile car that has four to seven years old. That one, because the risk profile is moderate to low and the affordability of it is commensurate to that. So that’s a great one to have both in our portfolio and a good one for the motorist to have covered off.

The risk for 100 is the lowest with that group, but when they do happen, they’re severe.

Crew Chief Eric: So are there any cars that are just outliers? Let’s say you bought a brand new Ferrari and that’s not gonna happen. Right?

Richard Holland: Well, you know what, we could, uh, no. I don’t even think we could be persuaded to say, add a service contract to a Ferrari only knowing full well that those, if you have an mechanical failure, you’re there.

It takes a lottery ticket to get that thing repaired. We do shy away from some of the extreme highlines. Put that into any of those exotics, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani. I mean, bear in mind that the fundamental principle of the insurance products is, is to help those with finite capacity, be prepared for the [00:13:00] unexpected.

The premise is that someone who has the ability to afford one of those should also have the capacity to solve for it. Should a calamity happen?

Crew Chief Eric: Let’s theorize here for a second. ’cause a lot of our audience are Motorsport. Petrolhead. Yes. And so there’s a huge conglomerate of folks that go out and buy used Porsches, you know, Caymans and Older nine elevens.

Mm-hmm. And BM BMW M threes and m fours. And they take ’em to the track. So you buy A CPO Cayman, right? Yep. And you buy a plan for nation state drivers. ’cause it fits in that window. It’s four to seven years old. To the sweet spot. In terms of mileage, is there any sort of stipulation that says, well, if you take it to the track and something happens, you know, at A-H-P-D-E or an event like that, where this policy wouldn’t work for the car?

Richard Holland: Not necessarily. Really, I think the biggest risk in a track is, is less about mechanical failure just from abusing the engine and more of an incident involving one of your fellow motor sports. And so this isn’t a collision related. Policy, but [00:14:00] again, it doesn’t take a track. We’ve seen more than enough claims come in when the explanation is, is really understood.

It was the owner’s teenage son showing off to his friends and not realizing what a red line meant. So,

Crew Chief Eric: so in that case, if you money shifted the motor and something happened. Be covered under this particular plan,

Richard Holland: it would be covered in this industry. They would call it exclusions. Are there things that are excluded or activities that are excluded and listen, I can’t speak for all providers of things like this.

There are some out there that who would say, yep, if this is happened to be being utilized at, uh, track, it would be exclusive for us. We don’t have that exclusion tonight.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s switch gears and let’s talk a little bit more about the roadside assistance part of this. Sure. ’cause obviously there’s two sides to this equation.

Let’s talk about how roadside assistance has changed over the decades, because I think it’s something we take for granted, right? You’re stranded on the side of the road, you call somebody in a tow truck shows up. What does that mean today, especially with EVs and hybrids and you know, there are still [00:15:00] some carbureted cars out there.

What’s roadside assistance like in 2025?

Richard Holland: The scenario is you’re now on the side of the road and you’ve had a problem. It could be anything from a flat tire to out of gas, to whatever reason the engine stopped running and now I find myself on the side of the road. And again, it would be through via some of our partners.

Um, it might be an 800 number that you call. It could be press the button for it gets support. I mean, telepathy. Now in cars, this is getting better and better all the time. But once that roadside assistance has been requested, we filled it by answering that toll free number. We answer it with an IVR and an IVR will answer and say, would you like to speak to an agent or would you like to self-direct?

And we’re finding there is a trend to the self-direct. So they press one. Next thing they know, they get a hyperlink texted to their phone, and at that point they’re into an app-like experience, or they’re able to say, here’s what the problem is. I have a flat tire, I need a tow. And it comes up in literally just a matter of seconds.

Says, here is a tow provider in your [00:16:00] area, and it’ll be 21 minutes before they can be to your. Location and you look at it, you see ’em on the map coming to you. They arrive, they make triage, what’s going on and what used to be, let’s hook you on the back of a tow truck now has largely been replaced. Like we’re gonna put it onto a flatbed and they’ll roll you up on the flatbed.

I think that speaks really to the prevalence of now of EVs and other types of vehicles that that seems to be the way that they like to get towed away. And then they’ll take that again, us the motorist. See where the car is, where it’s headed. It goes to a shop of your choice. And if that doesn’t exist, we can recommend out of a network of certified providers where you can have the work done or have it towed to your nearest franchise dealer that represents the car that’s there.

And at that point, they’ll drop it off. We have a closed loop system so that you verify that all of that has happened, and that’s the end of the experience. It should be uneventful. When that opportunity occurs. But the biggest change is probably the proliferation of EVs. And what really has changed them is, is since they’re so weight [00:17:00] conscious, they don’t put a spare tire in one of those anymore, and they weigh so dang much, right?

That they’re more susceptible to road hazard. And so when you have a tire failure in an ev. Your options generally aren’t come in and change my tire. For me, it’s come in, recover my vehicle, get me to the nearest tire center so that I can get a replacement tire put on, and we’re seeing a, an increasing percentage of what would normally be, what we would call a soft service, performing the service on the side of the road to a recovery.

Just because of the, the EVs.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mean like plugging a tire so they can get where they’re going if they don’t have run flats or something like that?

Richard Holland: Yep. It’s just, uh, and that seems not to be the case. They don’t put a lot of run flats on those cars and so we, we do see it where they lose a tire. It is a get it to a tire center and they’re replacing a tire.

And generally it’s not a tire, it’s all four tires.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, there are folks that drive. Their BMWs and Porsches to the track. But what about the folks that they’re borrowing their wife’s Chevy Tahoe to tow their Porsche to the track and something happens and that car is [00:18:00] registered under a nation safe driver plan.

Richard Holland: So are you suggesting, Eric, that it’s the Tahoe pulling the car, or is it you have a disconnect from the trailer and the car goes? On its own little, uh, adventure.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, let’s not go that far. What I’m thinking is, okay, good. Is you’re towing with your Tahoe or your Durango or whatever it is. You know, your F-150 and something goes wrong, the truck’s covered by nation safe.

What happens if, let’s say your truck has to get towed? Do you guys offer any sort of extension to say, well, we’ll help you get your trailer where it needs to go, because you can no longer pull it at that point.

Richard Holland: Yep. We’ll call that a two-way tow. It might be that Yep, we’re gonna take your truck to, uh, the GMC dealer and he’s gonna get that thing repaired and we’re going to have the other one towed, separate carrier, but towed to your destination.

And so we’re happy to oblige that way.

Crew Chief Eric: Is that a separate charge for that or is that actually covered in the policy?

Richard Holland: That would be covered in the policy? It, it happens rarely, but it is one of those falling into that category. Fortunately, I’ve never had that situation [00:19:00] arise, but the potential is certainly there

Crew Chief Eric: and it applies to, to a camper or anything else.

But we can now go to the next logical conclusion, which is the old adage when you’re talking about trailers. Two is one and one is none. When you’re talking about spare tires, so let’s say you get a flat with your trailer. Can you call a nation safe and say, Hey, I’m stuck on the side of the road, the trailer’s down.

Can you come help me? Do you have spare trailer tires? You know, things like that.

Richard Holland: As far as carrying replacement tires for a trailer, probably unlikely. So you probably end up in that very situation. Road hazard tire on the trailer is gone defective. If there’s not one to replace it with, it’ll probably be, pull it off, get it to a tire center, replace it, bring it back to that particular vehicle.

That part does happen occasionally. I, I think the crazy thing about higher trailers is, is it’s never the miles. It’s always the age. They sit out in the sun, they get abused by the sun. There’s always great tread depth on them, but the tire fells just from exposure

Crew Chief Eric: definitely becomes a three [00:20:00] ring circus if the car on the trailer is not registered or road legal.

So now we got what, three tow trucks coming out? Three

Richard Holland: problems. Yep, that’s exactly right. And depending on the nature of the car, you may not want it on a flatbed. You might need a box truck. I mean, if the trailer was an enclosed trailer, you’re gonna want an enclosed trailer. So that’s just part of the sophistication of handling a, a motorist event like that.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. And, and I appreciate the fact that you guys are willing to work and be accommodating with your customers on that, because to your point, there’s a lot of exclusions in other policies and it makes it very difficult. You, you’re just stranded now you’re left with you and the trailer and your truck is off going somewhere.

Richard Holland: Yep, that’s exactly right. We’re all vehicle enthusiasts or car enthusiasts at heart. And, uh, we probably have a few war stories just like that. I think our biggest one is, is we had a. Former, uh, principal at the business here had a exotic, took it to the track. His son happened to put it into the sidewall.

And what they needed was a tow to get it from the track back to a repair center. But we didn’t cover the repairs, but we were able to do the tow for them. ’cause [00:21:00] it was at that point, undrivable.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s interesting you bring that up because there are certain carriers that tow trucks are not allowed or they won’t cross the gates of a racetrack to come pull a car out.

So the fact that you guys do that, that’s immense.

Richard Holland: Yeah, we do that. We do recovery and sometimes it depends, ’cause this is, again, we’re the fulfillment partner for our B2B partners. Sometimes they’ll say, yeah, this is, we cover it up to this point, but not after that. And so we try to work with them, advise them on those type of things.

It’s really about managing the risk, you know, how likely are you gonna have that out of your hundreds of thousands of customers? It’s pretty minimal. So we encourage ’em to cover that. You know, a lot of our rivals won’t cover accident tows, for example, or, uh, a car that gets impounded. We have one of our big service providers, they have a contract at a very large airport here in town.

And if you’ve left your car for greater than 60 days at the airport lot. They come and get them, they impound them, and you get a notice, and a lot of wreck won’t come and [00:22:00] solve for the impound. So we’ll go and retrieve it from the impound and tow it back to where it needs to be. And so I think we’ve tried to look at it and solve those friction points that a motorist has.

It’s. Bad enough that they don’t without their car. There’s a mechanical failure, but how do you just make that part of it as uneventful as possible?

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned partnerships are super important to nation safe driver’s business. You guys are very technology forward. I wanna kind of hone in on both of those things because when you’re in a panic situation, you’re like, man, where’s that one 800 number I gotta dial.

OnStar was the first one. Yep. You remember the little blue button you touch in your rear view mirror and it dials out. Do you need help?

Richard Holland: Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: Are you tied into those? Types of networks too, where OnStar is dispatching nation safe drivers to kind of do the last mile work.

Richard Holland: Yes. We have several OEM partners where you’re calling literally OnStar.

We will use them in there as an example, although I’ll disclose they’re not one of our customers at present. If you were to dial that, they would have a call center that is answering that, that would be saying, how can I help? And they would say, I need a roadside [00:23:00] assistance. And at that point they would, you’d then be transferred digitally into our system, and at that point we would begin to provide the service on behalf of that OEM.

We have others where some OEMs have apps for their cars, for example, I have one that’s for a truck that I own, that if I needed roadside assistance, I go to it and it is literally press this button for roadside assistance. At that point, there’s a digital handshake to us. Location of it is sent to us, and we really let them wrap inside of their application.

That same app-like experience that we have, others have a different car, has the same app, or has a similar app that they offer. Roadside assistance there is, is call this number, right? So at that point you’re literally on your iPhone calling the number, and again, it’s calling a number that looks like it’s that OEM and it’s really someone here at Nation Safe Driver answering the phone on behalf of that OEM and we take care of it.

I think what we’re learning is a feature we just released was, is the ability to put that membership card in [00:24:00] your iPhone digital wallet. It’s late, it’s dark, it’s raining. You’re not scrambling through the glove box looking for a number. You just go to your digital wallet. There it is. Hit the triple dots there, there’s the information, and press the dial.

Right? And you’re calling right out. And I think you’re gonna find that to be far more prevalent going forward.

Crew Chief Eric: And I’m glad we’re talking about that late at night in the rain type of situation because it, it’s a source of frustration for a lot of people. If you’ve ever gotten a flat tire or something’s happened, or you have to call roadside assistance, the last thing you want is.

Press one for roadside assistance. Yes. Press two. For financial and insurance products. Right. Being a technology forward company, like you’re talking about with all the handshakes and the text messages and this and that. Yeah. Do you see AI playing a role in the customer service portion of what Nation Safe drivers does in the future?

Richard Holland: Yeah, I think absolutely. I think pick a couple of things. I mean there, the automotive repair industry has a wealth of information that’s been stored over the years and the only one really to master that is, is to use an AI agent who can really [00:25:00] process all of that and help sort of triage what the situation is.

And so we’re using it today in a few instances. I think we have a number of research projects that are underway that we think will barefoot root and be able to facilitate that service experience. I mean, we’re bullish on it. Do we think it’s ever going to replace the human interaction and some judgment calling?

I don’t think so. It might enhance their decision making process, but it won’t replace it.

Crew Chief Eric: Folks like to hear testimonials. Sure. The experiences of other peoples. Can you share a couple of stories or examples where nations safe? Made a meaningful impact on a customer’s experience?

Richard Holland: Yep. I can think of one that was really personal.

A woman was, had just, uh, left the hospital late at night, had been there to relieve her mother-in-law because her father-in-law was in the last hours of his life. His wife was frankly exhausted, so she stayed there. All of that day was relieved by her brother-in-law, son of the father, and on her way home.

Happened to hit [00:26:00] a piece of road debris, 1130 at night, flat tire, always at the least convenient time. She took the exit, pulled off to a small little liquor store in about the worst part of town. Had no idea how you would change a tire, had no idea even frankly, what to do, but reached out and said, here’s my circumstances.

What do I do? I happened to be one of our agents here, happened to say, well, the first question is, are you in a safe place? And her response was. I don’t think so. I think I’m surrounded by a, a drug culture environment right here. And she said, okay, let me see how quickly. And so she, she placed an immediate action call to a service provider that was the general area and said, effectively, this is a 9 1 1.

How quickly can you get there? So a normal ETA might be 20 to 30 minutes for us. On this one, it happened to be six minutes. And so the agent just advised. Don’t get out. Don’t go look at the tire. Just lock your doors and stay in the car. I’m gonna stay on the phone [00:27:00] with you and if you’re approached, we’re gonna dial literally 9 1 1.

And so I just so appreciate that agent making it on a personal, it’s about protecting the individual. Shortly after that, the wrecker arrived, they got the car. Our agent dispatched an Uber to get that person off the road and onto their home, and it meant so much to them that about a week later, Uber Eats delivers here to our offices crumble cookies For that agent, just this motorist wanted to say thank you to that agent for making it a personal experience.

Focusing on them as, and their safety about that being the most important thing. And frankly, how uneventful, uh, not a, it was certainly eventful, but how, um, seamlessly she was able to secure the tow provider and get the car delivered to what happened to be a Mercedes dealership and then get that person back to their home.

So I, when I hear those stories, gosh, it causes me to be really proud [00:28:00] of our team that a lot of the training that we do with. Them is this empathy, it’s tonality, it’s putting yourself in their situation, focusing on them, and it’s just so refreshing to see it when that stuff just shows up and we learned about it by why are they delivering crumble cookies to this person?

Just to say, thanks.

Crew Chief Eric: Folks are listening to this now and they’re probably Googling nation safe drivers, or on the website trying to figure out where did they fit in the ecosystem. Before we transition to our last segment, let’s just talk about. Becoming part of the nation safe driver system. Where, when and how should you sign up?

Richard Holland: There are a couple of ways. Our present go to market strategy is, is B2B. We partner with a number of providers out there. It could be your insurance carriers, could be the OEM that you do business with. It could be. A lot of other things. I mean, it’s surprising, I probably shouldn’t say, but even we have certain cell phone companies that we’re a partner in and they have benefits there.

So I guess the challenge I would send to [00:29:00] your listeners is, is that when you’re in there, you’d like to use Nation Safe drivers for that benefit. Ask about it by name. I mean, they can become the greatest impetus for getting, for us more coverage of Nation safe drivers. I would say stay tuned. In about two quarters time, we will release a direct to consumer.

On the roadside assistance, so you’ll have that ability. If you’re on the side of the road, you Googled, I need a tow, you would see a direct to consumer. We figure we can leverage this network of these providers and assist there for those that are on these one time events. When it comes to the insurance related products, really a couple of ways.

We distribute a number of them through the dealerships, through their insurance agents. Through your personal automotive insurance agents and through a number of credit institutions, whether they be a credit union or a bank like Ali. And so again, you can ask about it by name. We’d appreciate that, but that’s certainly how they would get enrolled.

Crew Chief Eric: And that enrollment, that’s a [00:30:00] agreed upon fee, or is that a subscription? How does that work?

Richard Holland: It’s generally agreed upon, let’s say it was you’re at the bank and you were buying a car and you were financing it that. Charge for those services would get bundled into the loan and you’d pay for it over the term of the loan.

If it’s the roadside, it’s just a, it’s a benefit of your collisions insurance on your vehicle. And if you looked, uh, I’ve done it for myself personally. I have roadside assistance covered by three or four vendors that I do business with. On a personal level, I think it’s really just. Making the effort to familiarize yourself with who all offers it and what’s the extent of the benefit.

Crew Chief Eric: So your mileage may vary, deductibles, all sorts of stuff apply there. It could really gotta do your due diligence when you’re looking at this.

Richard Holland: Read the agreement. I mean, it’s interesting how many of our rivals have exclusions. Limitations to benefits. And so that is how they differentiate. We may not be the cheapest one.

What we probably are is the greatest value. ’cause the cheapest one probably excludes a lot of things that are fairly customarily, the nature of the repair.

Crew Chief Eric: So as we [00:31:00] switch into our last segment here, Richard, let’s talk about the future a little bit. What are some of the challenges that the industry is gonna face in the coming years?

We talked a little bit about the EVs, so how is nation safe drivers preparing for those changes?

Richard Holland: Oh, I think our first one is for the EVs in particular, is really the evolution of the network. We talk about nation safe driving B, a couple of thousand employees, but the reality is we’re about 250,000 strong.

When you bundle in. Our partners there, you know, they’re all entrepreneurial. They have a small business. They might have a truck, they might have a half a dozen trucks. We’ve leaned on some of our financial capacity to help them with some of the challenges that they have. We’re recognizing that. Financing a truck may be an obstacle for them.

How can we help with that? It might also be getting liability insurance, and so we have a partner to help with that. So we’re very active in the tow community on how to help them build their business. When it comes to the nature of the tows, they are evolving. Some are specializing in those [00:32:00] soft services, some are specializing in light to medium duty, some even heavy duty, uh, towing services.

On those light to medium duties, it’s really saying we need a mix. We need more of those on the road and get away from more of the hooks. So it’s really help advising those tow providers on where we see the trends occurring. Uh, we take another one. We have a little bit where we process, I hate to even say how many, but a lot of road hazard claims.

We’re starting to even add value through data, either to aftermarket suppliers or even municipalities when we’re starting to see problems on just their roads that are causing frequent problems.

Crew Chief Eric: So the big question, what’s next, Richard? Looking ahead, what excites you the most about the future of Nation Safe drivers and the role you play in continuing to expand and grow the company?

Richard Holland: Listen, we’re a really bullish on the future. We love the automotive space. We look for ways to be more intuitive in how we can help in motorist life. I think the [00:33:00] utilization of the smart devices and making that really convenient, really trying to think through where are the gaps, where are the friction points?

How do we elegantly solve those things? You know, I started my career as a software developer. Even though this is like a service business, it’s how do we leverage more technology just to enable us to do better and higher quality of services And, uh, whether it’s AI deployment, it’s some smart learning, it’s some machine learning.

It’s. Leveraging of priors experiences. Those are pretty exciting. And what we’re finding is, is that there’s a real appetite for it out there. Most aren’t as forward leaning on how do you continue to evolve as a business. And so we’re finding that we’re just becoming much more of a demanded partner by those that we don’t have as partners today.

So that’s really exciting. You know, I’m be honest, I’m sort of on the last lapse of my career. I mean, the checkered flag, I can see it. It’s not that far off. But it’s like, who do you pass the baton [00:34:00] to? So I get, uh, a lot of re-energizing out of working with the next generation here. You know, teaching them about leadership, about how to be customer centric, how to think differently, how to be uncommon.

And frankly, it’s incredibly invigorating to be around that next generation. See how excited they are to get into this business. And we have a president’s club. And for us, our President’s Club is to take about a dozen people down to the Miami Formula One. This last year I took 10 people who had never been to a motor sports event in their life.

We live in the shadow of it. We have the Daytona 500, a couple of hours up the road. It’s just instilling a love for motor sports that seems to have skipped a generation or two.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Richard, we’ve reached that part of the episode where I like to invite our guests to share any shout outs, promotions.

Thank you. Is there anything else that we haven’t covered thus far?

Richard Holland: I changed just for you, Eric. I had on my Ferrari shirt because on Fridays we share our team, whether it’s a [00:35:00] college football or the pros. Or it’s a race weekend, you know? What team do you follow on Formula One and we’re to walk the office here.

Out of the several hundred employees that are here, just on this floor alone, two thirds of them would be wearing, unfortunately, red Bull or McLaren. But fun to see that that enthusiasm is starting to. Pick up

Crew Chief Eric: as CEO of nation safe drivers. Richard leads one of North America’s most trusted finance and insurance and roadside assistant providers serving automotive, rv, marine, and power sports markets.

He spent over three decades advancing technology driven solutions and championing dealership growth from scaling endurance warranties by 266% to founding and selling major dealership management startups. Richard’s passion for the evolving auto landscape, focusing not only on profitability, but on lasting value for dealers, drivers and enthusiast lines up squarely with your needs as an enthusiast.

So to learn more, be sure to log on to www.nationsafedrivers.com or follow [00:36:00] them on social media at NSD Club on x. And at Nations Safe drivers on Instagram and Facebook. And with that, Richard, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Break Fix and sharing your time with us, and I think there’s gonna be a lot of folks looking to sign up for Nations safe driver policies in the near, near future.

So best of luck and hopeful. See you soon.

Richard Holland: No, listen, it’s been a great to spend a few minutes with you. It’s always fun to talk about NSD and particularly talk about motor sports. So appreciate the invitation, Eric.

Crew Chief Eric: We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports. And if you’d like to learn more about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org.

We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but [00:37:00] also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, mini SOS and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 Meet Richard Holland: A Leader in Roadside Assistance
01:06 Richard’s Early Automotive Passion
04:28 Nation Safe Drivers: Mission and Services
05:08 Risk Aversion and Recovery Services
06:30 Comparing Nation Safe Drivers to AAA
07:40 Finance and Insurance Products Explained
14:37 Roadside Assistance Evolution
16:52 Handling Roadside Assistance for EVs
18:57 Trailer Troubles: What to Do When You’re Stranded
20:21 Nation Safe Driver’s Commitment to Customer Service
22:16 Technology and Partnerships in Roadside Assistance
24:39 The Role of AI in Roadside Assistance
25:24 Customer Stories
28:19 How to Join Nation Safe Drivers
31:03 Preparing for the Future of Roadside Assistance
34:44 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Be sure to check out the behind the scenes for this episode, filled with extras, bloopers, and other great moments not found in the final version. Become a Break/Fix VIP today by joining our Patreon.

All of our BEHIND THE SCENES (BTS) Break/Fix episodes are raw and unedited, and expressly shared with the permission and consent of our guests.

Learn More

As CEO of Nation Safe Drivers, Richard leads one of North America’s most trusted Finance & Insurance and Roadside Assistance providers, serving automotive, RV, marine, and powersports markets. To learn more, be sure to logon to www.nationsafedrivers.com or follow them on social media @nsd_motorclub (on X); and @nationsafedrivers on Instagram and Facebook

Photo courtesy Nation Safe Drivers (NSD)

Headquartered in South Florida, NSD operates nationwide with a mission embedded in its name:

Nation → coast-to-coast coverage
Safe → protecting motorists financially and physically
Drivers → focusing on the people behind the wheel

NSD offers two core solutions:

Risk Management – Affordable insurance-like products that protect against costly repairs, from windshields and infotainment systems to tires and wheels.
Recovery Services – A network of 50,000 tow providers and 250,000 recovery vehicles ready to assist with everything from flat tires to fuel delivery.

Richard emphasizes that NSD’s team treats every motorist like their own grandmother stranded on the roadside – compassion and urgency drive their service.

NSD vs. AAA: A Different Approach

While AAA is a household name, NSD differentiates itself by being the fulfillment partner for over 1,400 companies. Whether it’s an OEM, dealership, or insurance provider, NSD delivers the roadside assistance promised under those brands. This B2B model allows NSD to scale nationally without requiring direct consumer memberships.

Roadside assistance has evolved dramatically. Today, drivers expect real-time updates, app integration, and seamless digital experiences. NSD delivers:

Hyperlink texts that connect stranded motorists to app-like interfaces
Live maps showing tow trucks en route
Flatbed towing tailored for EVs and hybrids
Digital wallet integration for instant roadside access

EVs, Richard notes, have changed the game. Without spare tires and with heavier builds, they’re more vulnerable to road hazards. NSD’s network ensures recovery is swift and efficient, even for modern vehicles.

NSD partners with OEMs and insurers to integrate roadside assistance directly into apps and vehicle systems. Whether through a digital handshake or a call center transfer, NSD becomes the invisible backbone of customer support.

Looking ahead, Richard sees AI enhancing triage and decision-making. While human judgment will always be essential, AI can process decades of repair data to streamline service and improve outcomes.

Richard shares one particularly moving example: a woman leaving the hospital late at night after caring for her family. Exhausted and vulnerable, she hit road debris and found herself stranded in a dangerous neighborhood. NSD’s agent stayed on the phone, dispatched help within six minutes, and ensured her safety until the tow truck arrived.

It’s stories like these that underscore NSD’s mission – not just fixing cars, but protecting lives.

Nation Safe Drivers isn’t just about towing cars – it’s about redefining what it means to feel safe on the road. Whether you’re driving a family SUV, a track-ready Porsche, or the latest EV, NSD is working behind the scenes to keep you moving forward.

From drag racing in a ’65 Mustang to leading one of the nation’s largest roadside assistance networks, Richard Holland embodies the spirit of the automotive community: passion, resilience, and innovation.

Break/Fix Podcast continues to spotlight the people who make our automotive world thrive. Richard Holland’s journey reminds us that every driver has a story – and every breakdown is an opportunity to build trust, safety, and connection.

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

How Seat Belts Finally Buckled into Formula One

History of Motorsports

IMRRC

-

November 13, 2025

0

How Seat Belts Finally Buckled into Formula One

For a sport that now epitomizes cutting-edge safety, Formula One’s relationship with seat belts was shockingly slow to start. It wasn’t until 1972 that the FIA mandated their use – nearly two decades after American racers had already embraced harnesses as standard gear. So how did the world’s most elite racing series lag so far behind? And who finally changed the game?

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

From the dawn of road racing, European drivers clung to a dangerous belief: in a crash, it was better to be thrown clear than strapped in. This philosophy, famously practiced by American driver Maston Gregory, saw racers leap from cockpits like fighter pilots bailing out. But the data – and the carnage – told a different story.

Enter Dr. Michael Henderson, a British physician with a passion for motorsport and a background in aviation medicine. In the 1960s, Henderson began applying crash science from the Royal Air Force to race cars. He fitted his own vehicles with four-point harnesses and later added an anti-submarine strap inspired by parachute rigs. His work laid the foundation for the six-point harness – a design that would eventually become the gold standard in racing safety.

Bio

Preston Lerner is a freelance writer who has covered racing for the past four decades. For many years, he was a regular contributor to Automobile Magazine and Road & Track. Lerner is also the author or co-author of six books, most recently Shelby American: The Renegades Who Built the Cars, Won the Races, and Lived the Legend. The material used in “Television Turns Its Gaze on Motorsports” is drawn from his upcoming book, The Deadliest Decade, which examines the safety, commercial and technological developments that transformed racing from 1964 to 1973.

Synopsis

This episode of The Logbook, our History of Motorsport series, explores the delayed adoption of seat belts in Formula One racing. Preston Lerner discusses the late 1960s and early 1970s safety measures, focusing on Dr. Michael Henderson’s role in debunking the myth that escaping a crash unbelted was safer. Henderson’s innovative six-point harness design, inspired by aviation, eventually led to universal adoption despite initial resistance from top drivers like Jimmy Clark. The narrative also covers the political and technological barriers to safety improvements in racing, concluding with the tragic deaths that underscored the need for regulatory change.

Follow along using the video version of the Slide Deck from this Presentation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Break Fix’s History of Motorsport Series is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argo Singer Family

Seat Belts belatedly. Come to Formula One by Preston Lerner. For the past half century, the FIA has been the principal driver behind efforts to make racing safer. It wasn’t always so, although the SCCA required seat belts in 1957, the FIA didn’t follow suit until 1972 From the dawn of road racing, conventional wisdom held the drivers should jump out of the cockpit when a crash was imminent.

A technique perfected by Maston Gregory. This myth was conclusively exploded by a largely forgotten British physician by the name of Michael Henderson, who conducted crash investigations for the RAF. In 1968. Henderson, who Mood lighted as a club racer and freelance journalist wrote Motor Racing and Safety, the foundational text on this subject.

At the same time, he fitted his [00:01:00] own race cars with four point harnesses, augmented with an anti-submarine strap, inspired by a parachute design. This, put him in touch with Terrence Dumbo Willans, a record setting Parachutist, who tested ejection seats for the RAF Willans. Later went into business with another club racer, John Ning.

By 19 69, 6 point Willans harnesses were found in almost every car on the F1 grid. The battle for seat belts had been won almost before it started. Preston Lerner is a freelance writer who has covered racing and many other subjects for the past four decades. For many years, he was a regular contributor to Automobile Magazine and Road and Track.

Mr. Lerner is also the author and co-author of six books. Most recently, Shelby American, the Renegades, who built the cars, won the races and lived the legend. The material used in television turns its gaze on motor sports, is drawn from his upcoming book, the Deadliest Decade, which will examine the safety commercial and technological developments that transform racing from 1964 to 1973.

So today I will be speaking [00:02:00] about how Formula One. Finally, belatedly accepted seat belt. May find this hard to believe considering the status of Formula One these days, but seat belts were not commonplace in Formula One until late 1960s. They weren’t required until 1972. Now, this is long after they were standard equipment here in the United States.

This is a j Foyt in a Dirt Champ car in 1964. You can see pretty clearly here that he’s wearing shoulder harnesses. And in fact, in 1968, seat belts were required in all American passenger cars, yet they were not in almost any Formula One cars at the time. And there’s a strange story behind this, which I’m going to tell here today.

I think most people would agree that these days, formula One is considered the pinnacle of motor sports. It’s the most expensive form of racing. Uses the most exotic technology and it has, I think, the most enviable safety record. Since 1994, only one driver has been killed in a Formula One race, and this is largely because of the safety [00:03:00] protocols and technology that the FIA has adopted, and they deserve a lot of credit for making racing an incredibly safe sport.

This was not always the case. You go back to the fifties, sixties, and into the seventies where the one cars were among the most lethal vehicles on the planet. Ersonal once told me one time I had a one in three chance of dying. Emerson was a two time world champion, two time IndyCar champion, 9,500 winner.

Very charismatic figure. When he told me this, I thought he was exaggerating, to be honest. But I went back and looked at the records and in his fourth Formula one race at Monza in 19 70, 27, drivers participated in practice. Nine of them later died in race cars. Now it’s true they didn’t all die in Formula One cars.

If you look at the years 1964 to 1973, and that’s the period that I’m studying, 10 drivers died in Formula One races in that 10 year period. So a pretty appalling safety record. Some of you may recall Peter [00:04:00] Bryant best known for designing and building Can-Am cars, but earlier in his career, he worked, this is in the mid sixties, worked on Formula One cars and worked in Indy cars.

And of that experience, he said, compared with the contemporary Indy cars. F1 cars were death traps. Bobby Unter three time Incar champion Indy 500 winner. That is, I was even more skating in his assessment based on his experience driving A BRM in the Canadian Grand Prix in 1968. He said in those days, formula One was way behind IndyCar, racing way behind.

Their technologies weren’t up with ours. Safety was, I ventured to say, 10 years behind. In those days, they used to kill drivers like popped popcorn. Uncle Bobby had a unique turn of phrase. I would say there were a couple of factors at play here. The most obvious and probably most important was technology.

1966, formula One regulations changed from a maximum of 1.5 liters to three liters. So engines doubled in size and uh, speeds went up, [00:05:00] I don’t know, 30, 40 miles an hour. This is also the period when wings and downforce first appear. There was also a, uh, tire war going on between Firestone, Goodyear, and Dunlop.

And during war, that’s when technology advances exponentially. So it was with tires. Tires became much wider. They became lower profile. They were much stickier. This is when the slick tire, the tread tire, was invented, at least for road racing. So cornering speeds went up dramatically. And corners are, of course, where the most serious accidents occur.

And you have to remember that in this period. The road courses in Europe were largely just that they were road courses, runoff areas had things like trees and telephone poles, sometimes farmhouses and barns and things you did not want to hit at high speed, and when you did hit them, the results were often fatal.

Second factor in explaining this appalling safety record was the attitudes of the era. Yes. When a driver was killed, there was naturally a period of mourning and grief, but the [00:06:00] general consensus at the time was. This came with the territory and it was sort of the cost of doing business. You have to remember that 1960s were only one generation removed from World War ii, a global conflict, and when something like 50 million people died, many of them civilians.

So when a young man who was doing something voluntarily without a gun being put to his head doing something, in fact, that a lot of the fans wish they were doing himself when he was killed in a race car. Yes, people were sad, but it didn’t spark outrage the way it would do. Now, another factor is that in those days, danger was considered part and parcel of the sport it was, or the appeal of the sport.

It was what made the sport special and distinguished it from stick and ball sports like baseball, football, and basketball. This was a philosophy that was adopted not just by fans and journalists, but by many of the drivers themselves. So, uh, you have to, that needs to be accounted for. Third factor was politics.

In those days, the hierarchy [00:07:00] of racing was very strictly delineated. At the top of the totem pole were the Blue Bloods, the aristocratic members of the Old Boy network who ran the National Sporting Clubs, these were the people who made up the directors of the CSI, which was the competition arm of the FIA back then, and they ran the put on the races that made up the Formula One schedule.

The middle class was represented by instructors and vendors. Guys like Mike Len and Colin Chapman, and they were, you know, the equivalent of the shopkeepers. The small shopkeepers are entrepreneurs of the day, clever guys to be sure, but, you know, involved in the, the grubby endeavor of making a living. The drivers were a level below them, and they were analogous, I guess, to plumbers and electricians.

They were people with special skills and they were compensated for them. In the case of superstars like Sterling Moss and Jimmy Clark, they were compensated very well. But by and large, they were considered to be interchangeable cogs in the machine. And when it came to safety, the aristocrats who ran the sport [00:08:00] didn’t see a moral case for safety.

And as a practical matter, they realized it would cost a small fortune, well, actually a, a large fortune to, to line racetracks with miles of guardrails to equip and train firefighters and to hire medical staff and outfit hospitals. I mean, this would cost a lot of money, and there wasn’t a lot of money in racing in those days.

There’s no real big time sponsorship before, uh, lucrative television contracts. So the money was gonna come out of their pockets, and they had no intention of spending it to keep a couple of drivers from getting killed. The constructor didn’t object to safety per se, but for them, as a practical matter, making course safer would take time.

It would cost money, probably add weight. Added weight means slower lap times, and slower Lap times is exactly what you don’t want if you’re a constructor. So as far as they were concerned, the only way they were going to implement any sort of safety upgrades into their cars is if it was required by the regulations.

The only group with a vested interest in safety were the drivers, and they were [00:09:00] the ones that had no leverage. And so nothing really happened on that front. This can be seen very clearly in the rules that the FIA promulgated regarding safety during this period. I mean, there are so measly as to be almost non-existent, a couple of red letter dates, and so 1952.

Helmets are required. Good thing. The problem is the only helmets into the sixties that is were there glorified paper mache, which had been designed originally for British colonial administrators, and then there were sort of the cork helmets that had been designed for polo players. Phil Hill once set about his helmet that he called his helmet a uh, a cardboard hat.

The point being that it really didn’t do much to protect dryer from head injuries in the case of an accident. 1961, the FIA required roll bars. What they didn’t do was require roll bars that were tall enough or robust enough to actually protect the driver in the case of a rollover accident, apocryphal stories about guys making roll bars out of wood and painting them to look like [00:10:00] metal.

And it said that Colin Chapman told his mechanics never push a car around the paddock by the roll bar. Point being that they were so flimsy as to. Really not be worth what they weighed. 1963, the FAA required fire retardant uniforms. And again, this sounds like another step in the right direction except for the inconvenient fact that Gen Nomex wasn’t yet commercially available and there was no fire retardant material out there for drivers to use.

While there was actually an aluminized, things that firefighters were aware, but this was not practical for drivers. So they were the normal cotton uniforms. And what they would do is they would soak it in a. Solution of boric acid, which supposedly added a couple of seconds of, of flame protection.

Basically, these suits were as valuable in a fire as the helmets were in the case of a crash. And in 1964, the FIA promulgated regulations governing the installation of seat belts, again, a good thing. Unfortunately, what they didn’t do is require seat belts. So as a result, nobody installed seat [00:11:00] belts, the first team to show up with seat belts.

The operation outta Southern California, this was an All American team, and the reason why they had seat belts is they drew their inspiration, not from Formula One, but from Indy, where everyone was already using seat belts. SCS looked beautiful, but they were dogs slow. And when they debuted at Monaco, they were so far off the pace that prevent.

Lo asked Sterling Moss if he would take a spin in the car and see if he could figure out what the problem was. Moss agreed and he gets over to the car, he looks in the cockpit, sees the seat belt, and what does he do? Doesn’t put ’em on. He sits on top of them and he goes down. And this was very much par for the course back in the day Formula, the one that is.

As if people didn’t understand what seat belts were. They’d been around supposedly since the middle of 19th century when they were used on gliders. And 1911, when the Wright brothers delivered one of their first airplanes to the US Army, it was equipped with a leather restraint. By 1928, all American planes had to have be equipped with seat belts.

And during World War ii, [00:12:00] all American combat pilots wore four point harnesses. So. Two lap belts, two shoulder belts. Took a little while for seat belts to get to the car. World. Nash was the first manufacturer to offer seat belts as an option. This is 1949 and in 1951, seat belts became available as an aftermarket item, but the real red letter date for seat belts is 1959, and that’s when Neils Boland, who was the chief safety engineer at Volvo, patented the three point seatbelt.

This almost immediately became the industry standard. And in 19 68, 3 point seat belts were required on all American passenger cars. Racers took a little longer to get with the program, so to speak. Supposedly Barney Oldfield put seat belts on a race car in 1922. That’s what I read. Can’t really find any confirmation of that.

And. At that point, uh, Barney would’ve been pretty old and longer than than two, so I’m not sure what sort of race car he would’ve been racing back then. But after World War ii, seat belts became commonplace. Worst surplus harnesses were available and they were [00:13:00] bought up and used by drivers in Indy cars and sprint cars.

Midgets stock cars Dragsters 1954. The SECA required seat belts in all of its cars competing in races. And that included even the Pist, sprites and Crosley Hotshots. So by the 1960s, basically every serious driver in the United States would be using a seatbelt, not so over in Europe. In fact, well, until the sixties.

Most road races thought in Europe, thought that seat belts were dangerous rather than a benefit. Conventional wisdom was that given the opportunity you were supposed to jump outta the cockpit before an accident, more or less like a, uh, a pilot bailing out of a stricken airplane. Richard Atwood, who won Lamont 1971 and a P nine 17, told me we all knew the cars were deformed in the case of a crash.

That’s why belts weren’t really thought of as being a particularly good idea, especially if the car caught fire. The most accomplished practitioner of bailing out of a race car before an accident was American [00:14:00] Maed Gregory, who famously leapt out of a lister jag at Silverstone in 58, and then he did it again at Goodwood the next year in a, um, Turro Jaguar.

Peter Bryant tells a funny story about Gregory a couple of years later, before the Tasman series, he was doing a seat fitting with Masterton Gregory. So they’re in the garage and Gregory’s in the cockpit. Everything’s kinda low key, and then all of a sudden Gregory jumps up. Pulls himself outta the cockpit, onto the floor of the garage, and Brian thinks something’s wrong.

Maybe the car’s on fire. And he goes, what’s going on? Gregory calmly stuck a stick of red licorice in his mouth. And don’t worry, I always check out the escape route when I drive a different car. As you might imagine, a lot of unbelted drivers flew out of their cars unintentionally over in Europe.

Probably the most famous incident. You may have seen this photo, a pretty well known photo of Hans Herman watching his BRM Bavel roll at ous after he’s been ejected from the cockpit. Now, fortunately, Herman wasn’t hurt in this accident, but this was very much the exception rather than the rule. Mos learned this [00:15:00] lesson the hard way a.

At Monaco was thrown out of cockpit of his Lotus at SPA Grievously. Injured at RAN in 1964. Team Lotus Driver Peter run’s career ended when he was thrown outta the cockpit. Jean Pierre s for permanent injuries to his left arm, 1965. John Serty motorcycle champion broke his pelvis and several other bones when he was half thrown out of the cockpit of his Lola T 70 of most sport.

He wasn’t wearing a seatbelt and Lucky Kassner wasn’t wearing a seatbelt, was killed. A couple months later during the LAMA test, Kassner was actually driving a Maserati coup, so he was thrown out of the cockpit of a a closed cockpit car, which gives you some idea of the forces that were involved in these crashes.

The stories of how seat belts finally came to Formula One has rarely been told, and it stars a, an unlikely and largely unknown hero In the name of a young British physician, Dr. Michael Henderson, he was a hardcore racing fan While he was in medical school, he worked as a track [00:16:00] announcer and he wrote freelance articles for car magazines 1960, he managed to, uh, go club racing in a Lotus seven that he caged at a Colin Chapman.

When he, uh, earned his medical degree, he went to work for the Royal Air Force Study in Aviation medicine area. And when he started doing that, he, he made a surprising discovery. He realized that the aviation industry had been studying high speed accidents for decades, and in fact, they had a whole all sorts of protocols for how to minimize accidents that resulted from high speed crashes.

And as he told me. I began to understand that there was a science of vehicle safety out there that we didn’t have to ignore the fact that people are getting injured in racing accidents any more than you would ignore any other kind of melody realms. The aviation medicine textbook that we were using at the time was about three inches thick.

It was a major book, and yet nothing had been done to adopt any of this material. Psychological, physiological impact, resistance, anything to motor racing. Henderson was no dummy, so he decided to [00:17:00] apply some of what he learned to his own racing. Uh, when he went, ran a touring car at the, at the Berg ring, he fitted it with a three point belt and he said, did the same thing with his street car, which was a Jaar XK 1 20 19 66.

He bought a Malick U2 Clubman and his plan was to put in a four point harness, like the ones he used by RAF pilots he worked with. But he realized pretty quickly that the lay down seating position, which is very similar to a a formula car. Meant that in the case of a funnel collision, he would slide under the belts as a submarine under them and he could be grievously injured.

So his state, what happened, he had trained as a parachute, and it struck him that the crotch restraints in a military parachute might be able to be adapted to a four point harness to provide anti-submarine protection. So he went to a company called Britax, which was then in the seatbelt business. It’s now in the car seat business, and he convinced them to build a harness to his specifications, perhaps looped around his thighs.

To provide the anti submarine protection. And this created the first six point harness used in road racing competition. [00:18:00] Angels should have been singing and, uh, trumpets blaring. Instead, there was silence. So to draw up some publicity, Henderson wrote a couple of articles and these generated nothing more than, uh, polite indifference.

So he now embarked on plan C, and he contacted various British racing organizations and he persuaded them. To agree to send him information about all the accidents that occurred in the upcoming season. His idea was to collect all this data, kind of crunch it, and then, um, write a book about his findings.

That’s exactly what he did. Wrote the book in 67, published it in 1968. Motor Racing and Safety is the foundational text of the Motorsport Safety Movement. Drawing on his analysis of more than 200 accidents, Henderson comprehensively demolished the myth. It made sense to jump out of a moving race car and he made the affirmative case for wearing a seat belt dad gravitas to his thesis and also to get more people to buy his book.

He decided to get a luminary, someone luminary in the [00:19:00] motor sports world to write the forward, and he approached Lewis Stanley who ran the Formula One team. And Stanley was a somewhat controversial figure, always dressed in blue blazers and gray flannel sax. He was somewhat pompous, could be a bit pretentious.

Critics considered him the Colonel Blimp. The motorsports world. On the other hand, he was just about the only member of the aristocrats who ran racing, who believed in safety, and he’d almost single-handedly created the international ground pre-medical service, which provided a well-equipped mobile hospital that, uh, went from track to track Henderson pitches.

Stanley Stanley invites him to come to his estate. New Cambridge Henderson shows up, gives him a spiel about seat belts, and when he gets finished, suddenly goes right. I agree. I’ll put belts in Jackie Stewart’s car. By this time, Henderson was dissatisfied with the locking mechanism that Britax was using for the six point harness as fate would have it.

He was working on a program at the time to upgrade the seat belts and the F four phantoms that the RAF was buying from McDonald Douglas. This had put him in touch with the GQ [00:20:00] Parachute company, which had provided all the parachutes used by the RA during the Second World War. Henderson asked GQ if they might create a six point harness for him, and they advised him to get in touch with their chief consultant.

Major Terrence Willens. Now Willens is one truly remarkable, remarkable character. Not so much for his racing stuff, but just for his entire career. Orphaned at 13, he worked as a Bronco buster, as a teenager, while he was still in his teens. When, uh, world War II erupted, he volunteered for the British Calvary and trained as a paratrooper.

Before his first jump, his instructor yelled, uncurl, your ears Dumbo and fly. Willens he was for the rest of his life. He served as a so-called Pathfinder during the war landing behind enemy lines in France, Greece, and Italy. After the war, he performed a series of incredibly risky high altitude tests and eventually became known as the father of British Sport Para.

He performed the first live fire ejection seat tests of the fallen net jet fighter. He wing walked without a parachute of ear [00:21:00] shows, and he also worked as a motion pitcher, stuntman. So Willans and Henderson collaborated to create the six point harness that GQ and manufactured and made available to Formula One drivers at the start of the 68 season.

Several of them had read Henderson’s book and they were what, I guess you’d call seatbelt curious. The major holdout, unfortunately, was the best known driver in Formula One. That was Jimmy Clark, two ton world champion. Jimmy absolutely refused to wear a belt. Henderson recalls, and this is kind of weird, I don’t really understand this, because when Clark raced in Indy 500, he had to wear a belt.

It was required. By usac, and so he was wearing seat belts when he won the 500 in 1965, but he refused to put them in his Formula One car, and he wasn’t wearing them in the Formula two car. He was racing in Hockenheim on April 7th, 1968. This was a dreadful, dreary weekend. It was rainy Clark’s cars. Lotus had a misfire.

He was running mid-pack early in the race tire deflated. Got into a terrible tank. Slapper couldn’t control [00:22:00] it. Car hit the tree at high speed. He was thrown outta the cockpit and his head slammed against the trunk of the tree. About 10 to 12 feet up, killed instantly. This was pretty much a come to Jesus moment for Clark’s colleagues.

Chris Aon, who was uh, the number one driver in the Ferrari team said, speaking for many of his colleagues. Jimmy’s death was the most profound thing that had happened to me in my recent career because I felt if it could happen to him, what chance did the rest of us have had to confess? I don’t think seat belts would’ve saved.

Jimmy Clark Chenbo accident was just too violent. On the other hand, drivers didn’t have access to any other sort of driver equipment. I mean, it was either seat belts or was nothing. So during the course of the 68 season, many drivers, most drivers, adopted and started wearing seat belts. As Henderson told me, it confirmed my belief that human beings are sentient creatures if given the right information.

They understand that there are reasonable things to do anyway. Interest in seat belts naturally filtered down to less exalted forms of racing. John Finning was an early convert. He had been one of the more successful [00:23:00] British Formula three drivers early in the sixties before retiring. 19 60, 80, he wanted to get back into racing on an amateur basis, do some hill climbing.

And his wife agreed to allow him to do so, only if he invested in the latest in safety gear. So he bought a, um, a Nomex suit, which was available at then end. He bought a, uh, full face helmet, which was available by then, and he wanted to buy some seat belts. But it wasn’t like you could go to Pegasus or your local race shop and pick up a pair of, uh, racing belts.

They, they weren’t available. So. The only guy he knew who was wearing seat belts was his old F three rival Jackie Stewart. So Fing called BRM, found whose supplier was they put him in touch with GQ and GQ put him in touch with Dumbo Wills. Willin met with fending when he was in the area, performing some ejection seat tests.

Fending bought a four point harness and installed it in his hill climb car. Fending had a race shop, that’s what he did for a living. And so people would come over and they would look at his car and they’d, uh, look inside the cockpit and go, Hey, what’s that stuff there? Seat belts. And a couple of people said, well, that sounds like a pretty good idea.

I mean, we should, maybe I should be wearing seat belts. So [00:24:00] fitting, started selling seat belts and after about six months. He went to Willans and said, Dumbo, did you ever think of doing this professionally and stop trying to kill yourself? Jumping out airplanes I him into forming a company. He was the brains and I was the salesman manufacturing.

Became the first major player in the racing market and its signature. Royal Blue Belts could be seen in virtually every F1 car of the Euro. You can still see a lot. I mean, will is still in business and you can still see a lot of them today. It’s their favorites in uh, uh, restored F1 cars that are vintage racing, especially cars of the DFE era.

Very, very popular and very good. By this time, ironically, Dr. Henderson had sort of gotten out of the seatbelt business. Well, he was never really in the business, but he sort of got outta that world. He moved to Australia and embarked on a new and fruitful career in road car safety, and he eventually served as director of Traffic Safety in New South Wales.

But he kept in touch with his old racing pals. And so in, uh, January 69 Formula, the one drivers, several of them came over to race in at Taman series in Australia. He had dinner with Jochen rent. [00:25:00] Was a hard nosed Austrian who’d more or less taken Clark’s place as the number one driver on the Lotus team.

And after Jimmy Clark, he was probably the most vocal advocate for safety. During this era, he was a big believer in what Henderson preaching and he told Henderson, I’ve read your book and I agree with everything you say, but you will never get me wearing crotch belts believe that in the case of an accident, the thigh belts, the crotch belts would crush his private parts, which would be very painful if in fact that was the case.

But Henderson explained that’s not what the way they worked. But, uh, Ridge couldn’t be convinced and so he continued to race with a four point harness, did not have the crash builds with anti-submarine protection. To September 5th, 1970 practice for the Italian Grand Prix Monza rent coming off four consecutive victories in the summer in the groundbreaking Lotus 72 there Monza in practice, he had just blown past any human, about 190 miles an hour, and in the brake zone for the parabolic at his car, suddenly viewed to the left and ran it to a guardrail.

Had the [00:26:00] guardrail been stored properly, it wouldn’t have been a terrible accident. Well, it might have been a bad accident, but it wouldn’t have been a fatal accident. That’s for sure. Uh, unfortunately, the guardrail was not installed properly. The bottom strand gave way. The wedge nose of the Lotus 72 dug in underneath it and it came to an immediate stop.

Rin was thrust forward in the cockpit, and since he wasn’t wearing a submarine belt, he slid forward and the belt buckle severed his jugular vein. He was dead before medical attention could. Later that year, rent became the first driver ever. World driving champion. Despite. The FIA didn’t take action to require six point harnesses.

In fact, they didn’t require seat belts at all, which is a dereliction of duty. That’s a little hard to understand. I mean, you didn’t have to be a safety advocate to understand seat belts made a lot of sense. 1969, British privateer, John Wolf was killed on the first lap of the 24 hours of LAMA when he crashed without wearing seat belts in his Porsche.

Nine 17 a week before [00:27:00] rent was killed at Mona British Amateur, Chris Summers. Who wore street clothes when he raced and refused to wear a harness, died when he was thrown from the cockpit of his Lola T 1 72, in a formula of 5,000 race at Ston. Almost exactly a year later, his friend and fellow 5,000 racer Peter Houghton, who likewise wore street clothes when he raced and didn’t wear seat belts, died when he was ejected from the cockpit of his Cooper T 90 at Ton Park.

It wasn’t until 19 72, 19 72 that the f. Belatedly mandated six point harnesses long after the vast majority of formula cars were already out with them. How many drivers have been badly hurt or killed needlessly before action was taken too many. The lesson to be learned from the history of seat belt is clear.

If racing was to be made safer, the changes wouldn’t come from the top down. They would be forced on the sport from the bottom up by the people whose lives were at risk, which made sense. After all, revolutions are won on the battlefield, not in the boardroom. [00:28:00] Thanks for tuning in. Really appreciate it.

Thanks also to Duke Inger, Bob Barr and the rest of the crew who put on this symposium. Tremendous amount of work goes into a project like this, and they deserve a huge pat on the back. Anyway, thank you very much. Take care.

This episode is brought to you in part by the International Motor Racing Research Center. Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history of motor sports spanning continents, eras, and race series. The Center’s collection embodies the speed, drama and camaraderie of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world.

The Center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of race drivers race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls, and brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special [00:29:00] events. To learn more about the center, visit www.racing archives.org.

This episode is also brought to you by the Society of Automotive Historians. They encourage research into any aspect of automotive history. The SAH actively supports the compilation and preservation of papers, organizational records, print ephemera, and images to safeguard, as well as to broaden and deepen the understanding of motorized wheeled land transportation through the modern age and into the future.

For more information about the SAH, visit www.auto history.org. We hope you enjoyed another awesome episode of Break Fix Podcasts, brought to you by Grand Tour Motorsports. If you’d like to be a guest on the show or get involved, be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at Grand Touring Motorsports.

And if you’d like to learn more [00:30:00] about the content of this episode, be sure to check out the follow on article@gtmotorsports.org. We remain a commercial free and no annual fees organization through our sponsors, but also through the generous support of our fans, families, and friends through Patreon. For as little as $2 and 50 cents a month, you can get access to more behind the scenes action, additional pit stop, minisodes and other VIP goodies, as well as keeping our team of creators.

Fed on their strict diet of fig Newton’s, Gumby bears, and monster. So consider signing up for Patreon today at www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. And remember, without you, none of this would be possible.

Highlights

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

00:00 The Early Days of Racing Safety
00:41 The Myth of Escaping the Cockpit
00:51 Michael Henderson’s Contributions
01:58 The Adoption of Seat Belts in Racing
02:39 Formula One’s Safety Evolution
04:50 Technological Advances and Safety
06:55 The Role of Politics in Racing Safety
21:44 The Tragic Deaths and Their Impact
28:00 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Livestream

Learn More

If you enjoyed this History of Motorsports Series episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. That would help us beat the algorithms and help spread the enthusiasm to others. Subscribe to Break/Fix using your favorite Podcast App:

Consider becoming a Patreon VIP and get behind the scenes content and schwag from the Motoring Podcast Network

Do you like what you've seen, heard and read? - Don't forget, GTM is fueled by volunteers and remains a no-annual-fee organization, but we still need help to pay to keep the lights on... For as little as $2.50/month you can help us keep the momentum going so we can continue to record, write, edit and broadcast your favorite content. Support GTM today! or make a One Time Donation.

Between 1964 and 1973, Formula One was a bloodbath. Ten drivers died in F1 races alone, and many more perished in other series. Emerson Fittipaldi once estimated a one-in-three chance of dying on track – a claim backed by grim statistics from his early races.

Technological leaps made cars faster but not safer. Engines doubled in size, tire wars pushed cornering speeds higher, and tracks remained lined with trees, poles, and buildings. Meanwhile, the sport’s aristocratic leadership balked at the cost of safety upgrades, and constructors resisted changes that added weight or complexity. Drivers – the ones with the most to lose – had the least power to demand change.

A Doctor, a Parachutist, and a Revolution

Henderson’s breakthrough came not just from science, but from collaboration. He teamed up with Major Terrence “Dumbo” Willans, a decorated paratrooper and stuntman who had tested ejection seats and pioneered British sport parachuting. Together, they developed a six-point harness that offered true anti-submarine protection.

Still, adoption was slow. Even racing legend Jim Clark refused to wear belts in his Formula One car, despite using them at the Indy 500. Tragically, Clark was killed in a Formula Two crash in 1968 – thrown from his car and fatally injured. His death shook the paddock. As Ferrari’s Chris Amon put it, “If it could happen to him, what chance did the rest of us have?” By the end of 1968, most F1 drivers had adopted seat belts voluntarily. But the FIA still didn’t require them.

An early Willans harness; photo courtesy Preston Lerner

From Tragedy to Transformation

The final turning point came in 1970, when Jochen Rindt – Clark’s successor at Lotus and a vocal safety advocate – died in a crash at Monza. His car submarined under a poorly installed guardrail, and the belt buckle severed his jugular vein. Rindt had refused to wear crotch straps, fearing injury to his groin. He became Formula One’s first posthumous world champion. Even then, the FIA delayed. It wasn’t until 1972 that six-point harnesses became mandatory.

Meanwhile, Henderson’s work inspired a grassroots movement. British club racer John Fennings, seeking safer gear for hill climbs, tracked down Willans and began selling belts from his race shop. The two eventually founded Willans Harnesses, whose royal blue belts became ubiquitous in F1 – and remain popular in vintage racing today.

Henderson moved to Australia and shifted focus to road safety, but his legacy in motorsport endures. His book, Motor Racing and Safety, remains a seminal text. And his belief – that informed people will choose safety – proved true, even in the high-octane world of Formula One.

This episode is sponsored in part by: The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), The Watkins Glen Area Chamber of Commerce, and the Argetsinger Family – and was recorded in front of a live studio audience.

Other episodes you might enjoy

Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History

The International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC), partnering with the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH), presents the annual Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium on International Motor Racing History. The Symposium established itself as a unique and respected scholarly forum and has gained a growing audience of students and enthusiasts. It provides an opportunity for scholars, researchers and writers to present their work related to the history of automotive competition and the cultural impact of motor racing. Papers are presented by faculty members, graduate students and independent researchers.The history of international automotive competition falls within several realms, all of which are welcomed as topics for presentations, including, but not limited to: sports history, cultural studies, public history, political history, the history of technology, sports geography and gender studies, as well as archival studies.

The symposium is named in honor of Michael R. Argetsinger (1944-2015), an award-winning motorsports author and longtime member of the Center's Governing Council. Michael's work on motorsports includes:

Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-war American Road Racing (2006)
Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed (2009)
Formula One at Watkins Glen: 20 Years of the United States Grand Prix, 1961-1980 (2011)
An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500 (2019)

<img class="tdb-logo-img" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CROPPED-1.png" alt="Logo" title="" width="2597" height="573" data-eio="l" />GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

<img class="tdb-logo-img" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CROPPED-1.png" alt="Logo" title="" width="2597" height="573" data-eio="l" />GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

<img class="tdb-logo-img" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CROPPED-1.png" alt="Logo" title="" width="2597" height="573" data-eio="l" />GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

Intensive Preparation and Strong Qualifying

Race Start Incident – Strong Comeback Over 12 Hours

About Liepert Motorsport

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Spotlight

Synopsis

Transcript

Highlights

Learn More

STEM & Automotive Education Programs

Medical Assistance & Health Advocacy

Additional Educational Support

LEARN MORE AT https://foundation.shelby.com

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Guest Co-Host: Max Kaiserman

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Spotlight

Synopsis

Transcript

Highlights

Bonus Content

There's more to this story!

Club Racing: Grassroots Yet Star-Studded

The Spirit of the Era

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

Guest Co-Host: Jon Summers

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Episode 1: Spotlight on Chassis 3729GT

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Episode 2: The Historian’s Lens

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Episode 3: Provenance and Value

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Episode 4: The Bachman Collection

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

Guest Co-Host: Jon Summers

Guest Co-Host: David Neyens

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Don’t Miss the Action

More Screen to Speed…

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

About Performance Racing Industry

About MOZA Racing

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Spotlight

Synopsis

Transcript

Highlights

Learn More

There's more to this story!

How It Works: The Motorcopia Method

Beyond Exotics: What’s Next?

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

Tune in everywhere you stream, download or listen!

Showcase: Holiday Shopping Guide ’25

<img decoding="async" src="https://www.gtmotorsports.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Slide1.jpg" data-eio="l" />

Here are some other gift ideas from the GTM Team and Garage Style Magazine!

Check out some other gifts ideas and extra special bonuses that go with this episode!

Honorable Mentions

Garage Style Magazine

Check out even more gift ideas over at Garage Style Magazine!

Guest Co-Host: Don Weberg

Shoutouts

Rich People Thangs!

TRANSCRIPT

Highlights

Ghosts of Holiday Specials Past

Behind the Scenes

Guest Co-Host: William Ross

Guest Co-Host: Max Kaiserman

Reading List

This content has been brought to you in-part by sponsorship through...

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014

GTMSpreading Motorsports Enthusiasm - since 2014